Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Jun 2004 to 2 Jun 2004 (#2004-120) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 03/06/2004, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 12 messages totalling 596 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Origins of the Temples of Rad? (2) 2. Organizations of the Known World Part 1 (3) 3. Of Amber Lotus and Zzonga 4. Lawful Brotherhood Revisited (2) 5. Temples of Rad 6. Centaurs in Mystara (2) 7. Other Tauric Races ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:25:41 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Origins of the Temples of Rad? Hi Andrew, Some interesting thoughts there! I've never really made much use of the Temple of Rad, just couldn't figure out a non-silly way to include it IMC. I like the idea of the Temples of Rad predecending Etienne's ascendance. If we go with the theory that Simon established the order, this could be linked with the idea that the Ambrevilles brought something with them from LaTerre... An alternative could be that "RAD" in Mystara simply means magic. Etienne chose the name simply because he had become one with magic itself. This could be linked with the previous idea, or with your other idea that the order was established by Ra(zu)d.... Havard --- Andrew Theisen skrev: > I just posted this over on the MMB, but I thought > I'd put it here, too, to see what kind of feedback I > might get: > > Doing some thinking about the d'Ambrevilles (they've > been on my mind a lot lately... > > Anyway, while doing so, I got to thinking about the > Shepherds of Rad, organized and secretly led by, of > course, Etienne "Rad" d'Ambreville. > > What struck me, though, was the timeline. The > Shepherds and Temples of Rad are seemingly a very > influential, or at least relatively widespread and > innocuous aspect of Glantrian society- their answer > to "religious worship" minus the paying homage to > the Immortals. > > But Rad as an Immortal didn't appear on/near Mystara > until 979 AC- he couldn't have. By the timeline as > established (most evidently) in Mark of Amber, but > reinforced in other areas (PC4 was, I think the > first "canonical" reference to the module X2 taking > place in 979 AC)- that timeline has it that Etienne > was not fully Immortal when he was "killed" by Henri > and Catharine, thus sending the Chateau d'Ambreville > and its inhabitants into the Land of Grey Mists (or, > as I like to think of it, Ravenloft. > > Etienne, upon his "resurrection" in 979 (module X2), > is now the Immortal Rad. So he couldn't possibly > have established the Temples of Rad until this date. > > So does that make the Temples of Rad only about 21 > years old c. 1000 AC (Gazetteer period)? They've > gained a lot of influence in that time, but I guess > I could see it happening. Probably the result of Rad > attempting to gain power/followers by instituting a > following in Glantri- a difficult task, considering > the Glantrians non-clerical ways. Pretty insidious > that he managed to pull it off, and especially while > sticking to the "non-cleric" line, so that other > Immortals cannot make an inroads. > > Or- another possibility that intrigues me- > > What if "Rad" merely subverted an existing > organization? What if the Temples of Rad were in > Glantri from an early age, preaching their > "non-Immortal" sermon, and thus well-established in > that nation by the time Etienne reappeared on the > scene in 979 AC? And Etienne, newly Immortal, and > seeking followers, merely "jumped in", gaining > control/influence over the Temples of Rad by the > establishment of the Order of the Radiance and their > crystal balls? A ready-made following (it would help > explain how he gained such a high Immortal level > during only 21 years as well). > > And- this appeals to my "More Sinister than Wacky" > d'Ambreville mentality- what if Etienne subverted an > organization that had been originally created by > another d'Ambreville? One of his brothers, in fact? > What if the Temples of Rad had originally been > established by Simon "I've Always Been Evil Since > X2, Despite Later Changes To Make Me Good" > d'Ambreville? > > See, my Simon is an evil cleric- one who cavorts > with the Cthulhianic entities the family entreats > with as alluded to in X2- and I was thinking that it > would be deliciously ironic if he had established a > "non-Immortal" worshipping group (the Temples of > Rad), who were secretly backed by the Outer Beings, > but that Etienne later subverted them to himself (as > Rad). Heh, heh... > > Anyway, thoughts on any parts of this stream of > thought? > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 12:15:58 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Organizations of the Known World Part 1 --- Chris Furneaux wrote: > IMC I have sind as their primary market as there are > many allegencies between > Thyatis and Karameikos that might make the trading > difficult, and it would be > far easier for word to spread to Karameikos from > Thyatis of illegal slaves then > from sind. Having Sind as a market for the slaves is an excellent idea. However, I don't think the proximity should prevent sales to Thyatis who is a huge importer of such "goods." It is probably well known in Karameikos what the Iron Ring is up to. The only problem is that there has never been any evidence linking that organization to the Black Eagle. > I had Baron Von Hendriks' General as an operative of > the storm soldiers. Such > an arrangement would lay clear links to operations > in Hattias. Another good idea. Consider it stolen ;) > Just some thoughts you might find useful. Thanks! Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 07:50:46 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Origins of the Temples of Rad? In keeping with the dementia of a ctuhlu/E A Poe line; would not the paranoid Caurenze make some good story lines as well? Something horibly wrong hidden in the depths of that area, with wizards being so keen on tapping into obscure ley lines or magics, and stumbling over many sinister things. I would even go as far as putting a gothic style Amittyville Horror house somewhere between Caurenze and Glantri. Other places like the borderlands west of Averoigne could have local towns with weird superstitions, the likes of Children of the Corn or Stoning ceremonies for the harvest. Some lakes near Klantyre might hold some super zombie, the likes of Jason of Friday the 13th. Horror movies offer some of the best plotlines for side adventures. Just think of Freddie the next time one of those pesky villagers goes and burns a heritic illusionist at the stake. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 08:19:42 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Organizations of the Known World Part 1 Slavery, although illegal to practice in Minrothad, is openly practiced by foreigners in the markets of Minrothad. The Iron Ring operates freely and publicly there as well. So anyone caught by the Iron Ring, could possibly be rescued at Minrothad. Nothing like your thief getting into too much trouble, being dragged and chained to several other unfortunates and shipped into the foreign ports at Minrothad. Thyatis is second only to Alphatia for a slave nation. Although they also breed slaves, giving a large population to slaves born in Thyatis, thus eliminating the need to openly take in more slaves from foreign ports. Thyatis also frowns upon selling slaves to outside the empire, creating a black-market of unscrupulous owners wanting quick cash and exporting slaves to Crossbones and Minrothad. The Black Eagle probably saw an opportunity to create a westward port in Karameikos for trading these quick cash slaves westward towards Jaibul, Hule, and to nefarious ne’er-do-w ells on the Savage Coast as indentured servants. I could see the Master buying these slaves to build a Janissary type army, and to also gain vital information of foreign powers by torturing the more knowledgeable folk. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 09:20:55 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Of Amber Lotus and Zzonga This little plot line might change some little nasties into really big players in your campaign. Since early in Thyatis westward explorations, they have recognized the power and strength of Hule. Thyatis also has always recognized that their greatest enemy would swallow them whole if their backdoor was ever weakened by a two front battle. So early on the Shadow Hand has had Imperial support of various black-market activities. The most important and closest guarded secret of the Imperial Senate has been the importation and exportation of zzonga. Imperial intervention in this game is one of the greatest weaknesses of the Empire, as many have acquired the taste of zzonga for themselves. The original aim of the zzonga importation was to experiment with zzonga to make it more effective to export back into Alphatia. Early senators also saw the westward exportation of zzonga as a means to keep their backdoor docile and too lazy to attack or expand on their western frontier. Hule was all too eager to experiment with any mind affecting substance to control their huge humanoid population. Several alchemists soon discovered that mixing honey made from giant bees with pollen from Amber Lotus was a very good mix to add to zzonga’s effectiveness. With a base of boiled black pudding, it created a very cheaply mass produced mind control drug simply called Black Drink. Although short term use was not addictive, long term use created a fanatical need for the drink. Fermenting the drink for a couple of months also created a more potent effect, although some that imbibe such a concoction usually die in several hours due to impurities in the cheaply produced manufacturing, and also created the name of Black Death for those that fell due to this poisoning. Hule is currently stockpiling the drug to invade other countries and force the local inhabitants to drink the concoction and double its mind controlled population. This makes X10 a particularly harder experience by creating invasion forces made of indigenous populatns. There is nothing like going to war and seeing your family in the front line of the opposing team. If X10 or WotI have already been played out, this scenario can be made into a second invasion attempt of the Master or his prodigy. Having a greatly weakened army from losses in X10 or WotI could force Hule into a corner where Hule would need to create an army made mostly of mind affected populations. In both situations, when battling the opposing team, your characters should try to make tactics that reduced the number of casualties. Large casualties of either side would reduce the morale and effectiveness of the indigenous populations that are not mind controlled. There is also a rumor spread through the ranks of Hule that those victims of the Black Death come back to life as undead servants to the Black Drink on the next full moon. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 09:41:52 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Lawful Brotherhood Revisited I just had an idea to put another spin on this group of early settlers in the Savage Coast. What if the Lawful Brotherhood was actually a movement of several organizations that were against slavery? They offered citizens a way out of the evils of owning slaves by buying them from their owners and then indentured them to foreign outposts (thus creating a wash of funds expended). Thus many Thyatians in Glantri, Darokin, Isle of Dawn, Ylari, and the Savage Coast can all hail from ancestors that were once slaves and freed by indenturing to the Lawful Brotherhood. Very successful in the beginning, but corruption and possibly the Shadow Hand intervened and caused the downfall of this organization, and possibly the last stock holder of this endeavor to exist in Thyatis left to settle in Karameikos to start his own endeavor the Iron Ring. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 23:45:09 +1000 From: God The Supreme Creator Subject: Temples of Rad Hello all, I have just joined this mailing list (this, my first mailing list) while running a Mystara campaign that has existed in some form or another for 4 years and I hope that it will continue indefinately. The very foundations of my world differ vastly from what is canon and I hope to share my ideas in time. This is primarily due to the fact that when I first started, all I had to go on were the contents of the most recent CD boxed sets (at least I owned all of those though). It was at least two years later, (when I was looking through some old D&D stuff) when I found the first Mystaran map back in the original MASTER series books. After a quick google (why hadn't I thought of this before) I began to realise how much information there was to be found. If anything, I have had a fantastically fun time trying to explain why my world is like it is within 'canon'. But I am digressing from the primary purpose of this post. In response to the theories about the 'Temple of Rad', I had also noticed the discrepancy with the existence of the movement and the timeline. First of all, let me say that I love how convaluted you have made the d'Ambrevilles. While, like you, I thought that the ditzy d'Ambrevilles were more clued in than they are portrayed, my train of thought wasn't even close to the twists that you came up with. [Applause] But again, I digress. Allow me to explain something about my world. At some point in the not-too-distant future, the Alphatians try to utilise Blackmoor technology to blow a hole/cave through to the Nucleus of the Spheres (which in my world does not have Blackmoor origins but that is for another time). Something goes wrong in the process and the resulting explosions weaken both the physical structure of Mystara and the World Shield. Not long after, Mystara starts to crumble in on itself, culminating in the complete (albeit slow) implosion of the planet after a few centuries. Out of the pockets of living beings left, I (rather arbitrarily) designated the Nithians to have the largest population after this event and called the resultant civilisation 'New Nithia' (I figured that the Nithians were one of the first civilisations, so should be one of the last, but this is irrelevant). Anyway, the existence of Immortals in my world relies on the worshipping powers of mortals. The first Immortals achieved their status by being legendary individuals and were revered not unlike our real-world 'Saints'. Incidentally, the less they are worshipped, the less power they have. This rule however doesn't apply to Etienne (among others) whom we all know attained Immortality through other means. Needless to say, the destruction of Mystara means that almost all of the Immortals lose most of their powers and Etienne & Co rise to rule the rest of the Immortals and that power goes to his head and evil ensues etc. Now, I haven't managed to find any more info on Veronique Gaudin apart from that which is contained in 'Mark of Amber' so I'm not sure how well this fits in but, in that sourcebook, it is implied that she has some Immortal-like powers but is not Immortal herself (could someone please clear this up for me). My conclusion was that she somehow gained her powers through her association with Etienne/Rad (the details of which I haven't fully thought through). When Mystara implodes, she also keeps her powers, including Chronomancy, that she uses to go back in time to try and fix things. Instead of the 'mindplay' she uses in the adventure as written, she actually sends the PC's back in time! The thing is, that wasn't her first attempt at saving Etienne. Her first try involved sending followers of Rad back in time. The problem was that they leaked information through time and they created the origins of the movement. Now, I know that this is extremely sensationalist and I haven't even begun to explain the obvious paradoxes involved, but it has certainly made for some fun sessions. Urutsini _________________________________________________________________ Looking to buy a house? Get informed with the Home Buying Guide from MSN House & Home. http://coldwellbanker.msn.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 18:22:47 +0000 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Lawful Brotherhood Revisited Chris Cherrington ha scritto: > I just had an idea to put another spin on this group of early > settlers in the Savage Coast. What if the Lawful Brotherhood was > actually a movement of several organizations that were against > slavery? They offered citizens a way out of the evils of owning > slaves by buying them from their owners and then indentured them to > foreign outposts (thus creating a wash of funds expended). Note that, originally, there was a missionary and religious background to this organization -- IIRC, there in an abandoned L.B. mission in VotPA. Only after the decadence (in the early Baronial age, probably, when more aggressive organizations such as the new Kingdoms, the Baronies, the Church of Narvaez, etc.) the organization took more and more a mercantile aspect, until it split up into the modern LB Trading Co. and Order of the Ruby. BTW, none of these organizations is especially benevolent. > Very successful in the > beginning, but corruption and possibly the Shadow Hand intervened and > caused the downfall of this organization, Back to your idea, it is definitely good: it gives a justification for the LB existence back in the KW, and allows other splinters to exist elsewhere -- e.g., in the Thyatian Hinterlands. We could say that the organization was originally composed by Philosophers of Law from Thyatis and Darokin, who refused the idea of slavery. They were funded by merchants who had the dual intention of appearing pious, and generating some healthy profit by providing new colonies of Thyatis with relatively low-cost but motivated personnel. GP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 20:25:32 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Centaurs in Mystara Below are some ideas I came up with on Centaurs after some discussions on the MMB on related topics. BACKGROUND: The Centaur race was created by Ixion, as a gift to his beloved Nephele. Nephele is a centaur-like air elemental creature, so Ixion crafted the race in the shape of his lover, yet formed by flesh rather than air. Nephele, loving freedom, decided that she would let the race flourish and roam free in Mystara’s wilderness. It is unclear when Centaurs were created, but it is believed that they were around long before the Great Rain of Fire. Centaurs are believed to be the first Tauric race on Mystara, but others were soon to follow.... REGIONS: Aengmor Centaurs being trapped in the area when the forest died were turned into “Were-Centaurs” (What’s their true name again?) Alfheim and Wendar Many Centaurs dwell in these forests, particularly around the Dreamlands of Alfheim. See also Aengmor for the Alfheim area after the death of that forest. Athruagin There is a large group of Centaurs living among the Children of the Horse. They have the same culture as the humans in the area. Ethengar There is an entire tribe of Centaurs serving the Golden Khan. They are seen by many Ethengars as the perfect union between man and horse. Five Shires Centaurs are rare here. Perhaps a race of Tauric Ponies (Halfling-Pony Mix) could be found among these folks? Glantri Several tribes are rumoured to live on the Ahdri Varma Plateau. They are sometimes captured by wizards for use in their magical experiments. Heldann The Knights have accepted one or two Centaurs among their ranks. These have become near-legends. Also a couple of Bariaurs have joined the Knighthood. Karameikos Several clans are found on the Kelvin Moors, and in the Radlebb Forest. They have also have quite a few Chevalls among their numbers. Northern Reaches and Norwold None, but there are several tribes of Bariaurs living in the Gnollheim hills. Rockhome None, but there are rumours of a race of Tauric Rockhome Lizards: A cross between a Dwarf and a Rockhome Lizard. Sind and Hule Few Centaurs have made it to these countries, but Bariaurs live among the Goatmen in the Black Mountains. Sind has Tiger-like Wemics. Thyatis Some Centaurs are found here, especially in Machetos and Vyalia. None in Hattias. They tend to stay in rural areas. Also, some Pegataurs can be found in Vyalia. Ylaruam Cameltaurs? Hmmm… maybe not Other places Savage Coast Centaurs live on the Yazak steppes. They are feared by the Goblinoids of the steppes. Davania Zebrataurs are found in Arica and other regions of Davania. A few tribes of Centaurs are found around the desert of Arypt, among the remains of the Milenian Empire. Wemics are found in the jungles of Skothar On the steppes of Jen and in the Empire of the Great Khan, large tribes of Centaurs can be found. Hollow World Jennites have Centaurs among their numbers as do the Krugel Orcs. ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 20:28:44 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Other Tauric Races After toying with ideas on Centaurs, I also came up with some ideas for other Tauric creatures for Mystara. They can be generated by using the Tauric Template which is found in Savage Species and IIRC Monster Manual II. • Nightmare Centaurs (Tauric Nightmtares) • Were-Centaurs (From the Dimension of Nightmare.) • Zebrataurs • Pegataurs (Elf Pegasus) • Wemics (Sind, Davanian Jungles) • Tauric Displacer Beasts (Gnoll Displacer Beast) • Tauric Griffons (Elf-griffon) • Tauric Hippogriff (Hobgoblin Hippogriff) • Tauric Basilisk (Dwarf Basilisk) • Tauric Cockatrice (Morigswerg Cockatrice) • Tauric Chimera (Faun Chimera) • Tauric Dragon (Ogre Dragon) • Tauric Hell Hound (Lupin Hellhound) • Tauric Gorgon (Minotaur Gorgon) • Tauric Phantom Hounds (Lupin Phantom Hound) • Tauric Hellcat (Rakasta Hellcat) ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:25:02 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Centaurs in Mystara ============================================================ From: Havard Faanes Aengmor Centaurs being trapped in the area when the forest died were turned into “Were-Centaurs” (What’s their true name again?) Chevall ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 12:19:16 +1200 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Organizations of the Known World Part 1 Quoting Havard Faanes : > Having Sind as a market for the slaves is an excellent > idea. the main place I was using for slave trading in sind was Jaibul (thanks to the other chris, I was trying to remember it when I was typing the last message and couldn't be bothered getting my books) One of my PC's was trying to buy slaves to be colonists. He wanted a lot, so Jaibul seemed like the perfect den of scum and villany. > However, I don't think the proximity should prevent > sales to Thyatis who is a huge importer of such > "goods." It is probably well known in Karameikos what > the Iron Ring is up to. The only problem is that there > has never been any evidence linking that organization > to the Black Eagle. My concern is more the political aspect. I mean the grand duchy is technically allied with Thyatis. Imagine a person being kidnaped in Karameikos, and sold in Thyatis and word gets out where he came from and what happened too him. I imagine whoevers land he worked would want him back (and he would want to go back). Afterall losing population through kidnapping means you have to then replace that worker. It could be seen by the Karameikians as Thyatians stealing Karamiekians freedom. Technically he is a free man from Karamiekos being held against his will. Something I am fairly sure stefan would be against (he did ban slavery). Thyatian government/enforcement would potentially have to step in an return the person to Karameikos, or face damaging Karamiekian ties. [Although it could be that this is one thing that damaged the ties and eventially added to the need to be an independant Kingdom.] That makes it rather dangerous to trade in Karamikian slaves in Thyatis. I imagine certain elements in Hattias may be happy to take them if the price is right and even in some of the outlying areas, but the mainland itself I'm not convinced. Thats my logic on the matter anyway... It doesn't have to be linked to the black eagle to prevent it. Just socially and politiaclly unacceptable. > > I had Baron Von Hendriks' General as an operative of > > the storm soldiers. Such > > an arrangement would lay clear links to operations > > in Hattias. > > Another good idea. Consider it stolen ;) Thief! ....oh wait, thieves are useful to have around in DnD... It's my reason for why the baron has a 24th level fighter leading his army. If your interested I have a whole backstory for him IMC. > Thanks! np. Chris. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Jun 2004 to 2 Jun 2004 (#2004-120) **************************************************************