Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Jul 2004 to 5 Jul 2004 (#2004-137) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 06/07/2004, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 18 messages totalling 950 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. The Linguistic and Ethnographic Issue, 4 (long) (4) 2. The Linguistic and Ethnographic issue, 1 (long) (2) 3. Return to... (7) 4. Vaults of Pandius Idea (2) 5. - Doulakki (2) 6. Return to Rahasia ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 12:03:49 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: The Linguistic and Ethnographic Issue, 4 (long) THE LINGUISTIC AND ETHNOGRAPHIC ISSUE PART 4 Something that is widely accepted by indoeuropeanists is the division of the languages in some groups. The modern languages descend from older ones in something that can be simplified in this table: "ORIGINAL" INDOEUROPEAN A --> oldest indoeuropean languages (no modern languages descend from this) (4500/4300 BC) B --> Middle Indoeuropean languages --> Anatolic languages, like ittites' language etc. (no modern languages descend from this) (3500 BC) C --> Late Indoeuropean (2500 BC) > From this group, the following languages and their modern descendants: C1. Latin & Osco-umbrian languages mix in Italy; in the end, all these mix together given the conquest of Rome and produce Roman Latin, from which the modern romance languages descend: -->1.1 Italian -->1.2 Portoguese -->1.3 Spanish ------> 1.3.a Castillan ------> 1.3.b Catalan -->1.4 French -->1.5 Rumanian -->1.6 Ladin C2. German languages; roughly divided into three main groups; much intermingling, some influence by nearby Celts; modern languages resulting: -->2.1 ------> 2.1.a Deutsch ------> 2.1.b Dutch -->2.2 ------> 2.2.a Icelandic ------> 2.2.b Norwegian ------> 2.2.c Danish ------> 2.2.d Swedish -->2.3 English -->2.4 Frison C3. Illric languages; there is still speculation wheter this language died out or if it evolved into current Albanese; otherwise, there is no explanation to the presence and origin of the Albanese language (surely an indoeuropean tongue) C4. Baltic languages; some baltic languages like prussian have recently extinguished themselves; current languages: -->4.1 Lettonian -->4.2 Lituanian C5. Slavic languages (until about 800 AC the Slavic language is the same for all the slavic people! the birth of the various languages is recent and historically documented) -->5.1 ------>5.1.a Bulgarian ------>5.1.b Macedonian ------>5.1.c Serb-croat ------>5.1.d Slovenian -->5.2 ------>5.2.a Russian ------>5.2.b Belarussian ------>5.2.c Ucrainian -->5.3 ------>5.3.a Polish ------>5.3.b Czech ------>5.3.c Slovakian D. Celtic languages; continental celts are nearly exterminated; all modern celtic languages descend from british celts: -->3.1 Irish -->3.2 Scottish -->3.3 Cymraeg (Welsh) -->3.4 Cornic -->3.5 Bretonnian E --> Greek (2300 BC) F --> Frigian (2200 BC) G --> Armenian (2100 BC) H --> Asia Minor Arian languages (2000 BC) I --> Indian (1900 BC) J --> Iranic languages (after 1900 BC) The dates are speculation, in Villar's own reconstruction, but, with the exception of the Celts, that some scholars include in the group labeled with the "C", the classification is widely accepted. The idea is that the original indoeuropeans, wherever they lived (most think in the Kurgan steppes, some in Asia Minor, some south of the Caucasian mountains), begun to develope a culture, from which, time after time, some groups migrated. In Villar's reconstruction, the letters from A to I indicate the various migrations from the original area, while J indicate the iranic languages and populations, that should be the last group of indoeuropeans to leave the original area (and thus the "direct" descendants of the original indoeuropeans). The other linguistic groups migrated to other areas at various times, and brought with them a language that had changed even in the original area (we all know that language changes through time, just read 1800 english or Shakespear's english and compare it to nowadays one); then they mixed with the local population (more often than not, the locals were less than the indoeuropean invaders) and borrowed some linguistic elements from them. Moreover, while the populations grew and expanded geographically, they met with the other indoeuropeans, so intermingling and interaction with neighbours that spoke a different language generated new dialects and sometimes languages. The same happened when there were invasions. The origin of classical latin, of english, or the presence of celtic linguistic elements in many german languages is an example of this. On this, I have chosen to base my reconstruction of Mystara's neathar linguistics and ethnography. ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Companion - Scarica gratis la toolbar di Ricerca di Yahoo! http://companion.yahoo.it ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 08:50:51 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: The Linguistic and Ethnographic Issue, 4 (long) ============================================================ From: la Volpe D. Celtic languages; continental celts are nearly exterminated; all modern celtic languages descend from british celts: -->3.1 Irish -->3.2 Scottish -->3.3 Cymraeg (Welsh) -->3.4 Cornic -->3.5 Bretonnian ============================================================ There are 2 main families here, Irish and Scottish are both the same (Mc or Mac). Cymraeg, Mannish, Cornic, Bretonnian and Brittany (from some Celts migrated back to France and lived to keep their language); is the second family. Since no one really knows what happened to the Picts, we don't know their language, but scholars believe it may be one of Britain's original tongues before the Celts arrived. I also believe that Welsh and Mannish are further divided from the rest as well. The Irish tongue comes from Celts that migrated from Iberia, and is different than the British Celts. Do you also know that the Welsh had a story of a tribe that left for America, 400 years before Erickson? And Lewis anc Clark (early American explorers) also claimed that the Mandan Indians (mound builders) had several Welsh words and phrases, plus some had blue eyes! This gave me the backdrop of my Oghriz and their "Celtic" influence. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 15:54:28 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: The Linguistic and Ethnographic Issue, 4 (long) Woohoo! While, I agree that RW comparisons can be useful, this is getting too advanced for me. ;-P One thing you might want to keep in mind is the separation between Language, Ethnicity(Genetics) and Culture. While some Mystara Peoples share one or two of the characteristics of the above with a RW people, they might not share the third. This is especially true for the various "Slavic" groups on Mystara, but may also be true for Milenians and Thyatians. On the "Traldar everywhere" issue, I suggest that the Traldar were actually part of a much larger group of peoples in the Western Known World, some settling down in Boldavia, others being transformed into Darokinians, and others yet being driven to the City States or MRussia/Midlands. Havard --- la Volpe skrev: > THE LINGUISTIC AND ETHNOGRAPHIC ISSUE > PART 4 > > Something that is widely accepted by > indoeuropeanists > is the division of the languages in some groups. The > modern languages descend from older ones in > something > that can be simplified in this table: > > "ORIGINAL" INDOEUROPEAN > > A --> oldest indoeuropean languages (no modern > languages descend from this) (4500/4300 BC) > > B --> Middle Indoeuropean languages --> Anatolic > languages, like ittites' language etc. (no modern > languages descend from this) (3500 BC) > > C --> Late Indoeuropean (2500 BC) > > From this group, the following languages and their > modern descendants: > > C1. Latin & Osco-umbrian languages mix in Italy; in > the end, all these mix together given the conquest > of > Rome and produce Roman Latin, from which the modern > romance languages descend: > > -->1.1 Italian > -->1.2 Portoguese > -->1.3 Spanish > ------> 1.3.a Castillan > ------> 1.3.b Catalan > -->1.4 French > -->1.5 Rumanian > -->1.6 Ladin > > C2. German languages; roughly divided into three > main > groups; much intermingling, some influence by nearby > Celts; modern languages resulting: > > -->2.1 > ------> 2.1.a Deutsch > ------> 2.1.b Dutch > -->2.2 > ------> 2.2.a Icelandic > ------> 2.2.b Norwegian > ------> 2.2.c Danish > ------> 2.2.d Swedish > -->2.3 English > -->2.4 Frison > > C3. Illric languages; there is still speculation > wheter this language died out or if it evolved into > current Albanese; otherwise, there is no explanation > to the presence and origin of the Albanese language > (surely an indoeuropean tongue) > > C4. Baltic languages; some baltic languages like > prussian have recently extinguished themselves; > current languages: > > -->4.1 Lettonian > -->4.2 Lituanian > > C5. Slavic languages (until about 800 AC the Slavic > language is the same for all the slavic people! the > birth of the various languages is recent and > historically documented) > > -->5.1 > ------>5.1.a Bulgarian > ------>5.1.b Macedonian > ------>5.1.c Serb-croat > ------>5.1.d Slovenian > -->5.2 > ------>5.2.a Russian > ------>5.2.b Belarussian > ------>5.2.c Ucrainian > -->5.3 > ------>5.3.a Polish > ------>5.3.b Czech > ------>5.3.c Slovakian > > D. Celtic languages; continental celts are nearly > exterminated; all modern celtic languages descend > from > british celts: > > -->3.1 Irish > -->3.2 Scottish > -->3.3 Cymraeg (Welsh) > -->3.4 Cornic > -->3.5 Bretonnian > > E --> Greek (2300 BC) > F --> Frigian (2200 BC) > G --> Armenian (2100 BC) > H --> Asia Minor Arian languages (2000 BC) > I --> Indian (1900 BC) > J --> Iranic languages (after 1900 BC) > > The dates are speculation, in Villar's own > reconstruction, but, with the exception of the > Celts, > that some scholars include in the group labeled with > the "C", the classification is widely accepted. The > idea is that the original indoeuropeans, wherever > they > lived (most think in the Kurgan steppes, some in > Asia > Minor, some south of the Caucasian mountains), begun > to develope a culture, from which, time after time, > some groups migrated. In Villar's reconstruction, > the > letters from A to I indicate the various migrations > from the original area, while J indicate the iranic > languages and populations, that should be the last > group of indoeuropeans to leave the original area > (and > thus the "direct" descendants of the original > indoeuropeans). > > The other linguistic groups migrated to other areas > at > various times, and brought with them a language that > had changed even in the original area (we all know > that language changes through time, just read 1800 > english or Shakespear's english and compare it to > nowadays one); then they mixed with the local > population (more often than not, the locals were > less > than the indoeuropean invaders) and borrowed some > linguistic elements from them. > > Moreover, while the populations grew and expanded > geographically, they met with the other > indoeuropeans, > so intermingling and interaction with neighbours > that > spoke a different language generated new dialects > and > sometimes languages. The same happened when there > were > invasions. The origin of classical latin, of > english, > or the presence of celtic linguistic elements in > many > german languages is an example of this. > > On this, I have chosen to base my reconstruction of > Mystara's neathar linguistics and ethnography. > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Companion - Scarica gratis la toolbar di > Ricerca di Yahoo! > http://companion.yahoo.it > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 10:00:18 -0400 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: The Linguistic and Ethnographic issue, 1 (long) (snip Chris`s opening) I`ll try to respond to this in more detail later today, but Taymor exists unofficially in the HW as the empire of Baahlor (sp?) - James Mishler`s HW version. he didn`t really flesh it out, though. Logically, however, Taymor should exist in some form in the HW. As for thye Doulakki, I have some thought on those - more to come.< Subject: Return to... Hi, people Just a quick email: Which existing Mystara Module do you think would make the best for a Return to... type Adventure? Return to the Keep of the Bordelands has already been made, so that doesnt count. Also, I suppose Mark of Amber is a sort of a Return to Castle Amber although Return to the Mark of Amber sounds like a funky title... Any other good ideas? Return to the Wrath of the Immortals? Err... Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:16:26 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Vaults of Pandius Idea Hi, this is mainly an idea for Shawn, but I decided to post it here rather than to him directly. One thing Id like to see at the Vaults would be a Recent Articles page, one where there would be links to the articles from the last update. This page would be more or less identical to the Update Email many of us receive everytime the Vaults get updated. Good idea? Or not? Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:26:41 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: The Linguistic and Ethnographic issue, 1 (long) Ah, the empire of Baahlor! I had forgotten about that one. I see no reason why not to include it on Mystara since as you point out, Taymora deserves a presence within the Hollow World. Even though it hasn't been developed much, we could probably use many of the ideas about Taymora for Baahlor aswell... Havard --- Geoff Gander skrev: > (snip Chris`s opening) > > I`ll try to respond to this in more detail later > today, but Taymor exists > unofficially in the HW as the empire of Baahlor > (sp?) - James Mishler`s HW > version. he didn`t really flesh it out, though. > Logically, however, > Taymor should exist in some form in the HW. > > As for thye Doulakki, I have some thought on those - > more to come.< > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 > Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer > Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy > au998@freenet.carleton.ca : > www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 11:20:07 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Return to... ============================================================ From: Havard Faanes Which existing Mystara Module do you think would make the best for a Return to... type Adventure? ============================================================ 2 modules come to mind... Return to Night's Dark Terror and for the best module ever written... Return to Rahasia (my 2 coppers...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 11:59:28 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Return to... B10, was a great module in that it taught both the DM and players alike to run a campaign in the wilderness. In a return to version, I think it would only be appropriate to have it as a learning module for campaigning as Land Owners, much like CM1. With a “Return to Rahasia”, I would like to see the setting moved to Minrothad. To me, the Minrothad elves fit the build of Middle Eastern elves, having traveled abroad by sea with Ylari sailors. Even the Ylari need to pilgrimage to Minrothad. I had earlier posts on this issue, the Al-Kalim, Old Man of the Sea, Sinbad, and Minroth connections; even the disdain for Fire Worshipping Mages (Don’t need them on a ship, or on an elven occupied island). In the return, we can throw a couple of surprises and twists. Plus include the original lair of the 3 witch sisters, which was not in the original module. There were also some passages that lead to unfinished places that were impassable at the time; much like the Keep on the Borderlands. My mind is rolling with ideas, I played this module once with high level characters, had to beef up the monsters so I made the Siswa Mystics and the sisters were 4th circle witches from Glantri. You have to love a module filled with teleporters, charmers, shapeshifters and doppelgangers. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 12:40:06 -0400 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: - Doulakki Given that I was one of the people who helped develop the Doulakki originally, I thought I`d share some thoughts as to where they might fit in, HW-wise: Basically, I see three options: 1. They exist in the HW: Given when they arose (before the advent of the Milenian Empire, or not long after it arose, depending on the city-state), it is entirely possible that the Immortals transferred one or two Doulakki city-states (possibly from Thyatis just as the Thyatian tribes were arriving in BC 600) to the HW. Since they did not advance much further than the Traldar (aside from a preponderance of iron usage, perhaps), the Doulakki city-states could be located in the same region as the Traldar city-states. To an outsider, the Doulakki would not outwardly be very different from the Traldar (not as different, say, as the Milenians), but observation would reveal cultural nuances that would distinguish them. The Doulakki usage of iron would not put them at a great advantage due to the Spell of Preservation, and the fact that the Doulakki city-states are probably outnumbered by their Traldar counterparts. So, the DM could add a couple of new city-states, or he/she can retroactively change one or two into Doulakki cities. 2. They still exist: When a culture is conquered, habits and languages can persist for many, many years. It is possible that, in some regions of Thyatis, there are towns and villages that remain, essentially, Doulakki. Perhaps these regions surrendered peacefully to the Thyatians, and as a result Thyatian rule was light there (they paid their taxes, etc, etc)? Remember that the Thyatians generally incorporate new cultures into their own (as per DotE), they don`t exterminate subject peoples. Further, let us suppose that some of these communities lie in the interior, in areas less travelled...if so, it is possible that few people would come here, and life could change slowly. They could venerate the same Immortals and observe the same traditions, and, despite some admixtures of Thyatian into their language (inevitable, IMO), they could, for all intents and purposes, speak a language that is very much like that which was spoken by their ancestors. The Immortals could look at this, and conclude that the Doulakki are not really threatened, and therefore might see no reason to move them to the HW. 3. The Doulakki were not saved: While the Immortals are powerful, they cannot always be everywhere, all the time. I think it very possible that numerous cultures have been wiped out permanently over the millennia, either because the Immortals were caught off guard and could not act in time (Blackmoor - as per HW boxed set), they were too busy saving another culture at the same time, or the culture in question had no benefactors (or at least, its benefactors changed their minds, or they felt that the culture was not deemed unique enough to save). In the case of the Doulakki, the latter option seems the most likely one in this case - their patron Immortals may have decided that the Traldar were similar enough, and therefore there was no reason to save them. Personally, I would lean toward using option 2, if only because I like that sort of theme (coming across vestiges of older civilisations - degenerate or not - that exist right under everyone`s proverbial nose). I would place remaining Doulakki settlements in the Imperial Territories of Thyatis, or the southern portions of Biazzan, or perhaps Halathius or northern Kerendas. Alternatively, there could be a few tiny islands (not even one 8-mile hex) that might support a handful of Doulakki villages, that have remained intact (relatively speaking) because no one has any reason to visit them, and the locals keep to themselves (ie: they live at the subsistence level). Otherwise, option 1 would work very well, too, with a minimum of effort. Just my $0.02, Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:51:12 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: - Doulakki ============================================================ From: Geoff Gander ============================================================ I like option 2 as well. Romans combined many different peoples, and what might have been considered Traladaran, may infact be Doulakki instead. I think we can keep Traladaran the RW Slavic, and anything that was once considered Traladaran Greek, could be corrected to Doulakki. Would that make Millenians related to Doulakki? It is not canon to say the least, but that could be up to some very well versed explorers to find the Rosetta Stone of the Doulakki culture and have them rewrite history. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:51:27 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Return to... --- Chris Cherrington skrev: > B10, was a great module in that it taught both the > DM and players alike to run a campaign in the > wilderness. In a return to version, I think it > would only be appropriate to have it as a learning > module for campaigning as Land Owners, much like > CM1. When you mentioned B10, I was thinking something in the lines of a Return to the Valley of Hutaakas. It would be interesting to see what had happened in the valley. Whether the Traldar and Hutaakans had been viped out by the Gnolls, or whether the Hutaakans were now ready to return to the oustide world. A CM1 style campaign for Karameikos would also be interesting. However, keeping in line with the Post-WotI timeline, Karameikos seems to slowly be loosing its frontier feel, so a landowner type campaign might to a greater extent revolve around conflicts between mroe settled groups, Traldaran Nobles vs Thyatian ones, the new Alfheim Settlers, Finally driving the goblins out of Dymrak etc... In any case, I agree that this one has lots of potential! :) > With a “Return to Rahasia”, I would like to see the > setting moved to Minrothad. To me, the Minrothad > elves fit the build of Middle Eastern elves, having > traveled abroad by sea with Ylari sailors. Even the > Ylari need to pilgrimage to Minrothad. I had > earlier posts on this issue, the Al-Kalim, Old Man > of the Sea, Sinbad, and Minroth connections; even > the disdain for Fire Worshipping Mages (Don’t need > them on a ship, or on an elven occupied island). > In the return, we can throw a couple of surprises > and twists. Plus include the original lair of the 3 > witch sisters, which was not in the original module. > There were also some passages that lead to > unfinished places that were impassable at the time; > much like the Keep on the Borderlands. My mind is > rolling with ideas, I played this module once with > high level characters, had to beef up the monsters > so I made the Siswa Mystics and the sisters were 4th > circle witches from Glantri. You have to love a > module filled with teleporters, charmers, > shapeshifters and doppelgangers. I once wrote some stuff incoprorating Rahasia with the Callarii woods and at that time I was very happy witb what I wrote. Now, however, I am starting to see your point. The Rahasia scenario does indeed fit quite well with the elves of Minrothad and the encounter between Ylarii and elves. Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 12:16:41 -0700 From: Ray Allen Subject: Re: Return to... I say X4/X5. If they were rewritten as a single module with better background, they would just be amazing. I've done this for MC and I think it turely deserves a "Return to the..." Besides, the Master showed up a second time in X10, right? He needs to come back for a third. :) --Ray. --- Havard Faanes wrote: > Hi, people > Just a quick email: > > Which existing Mystara Module do you think would make > the best for a Return to... type Adventure? Return to > the Keep of the Bordelands has already been made, so > that doesnt count. Also, I suppose Mark of Amber is a > sort of a Return to Castle Amber although Return to > the Mark of Amber sounds like a funky title... > > Any other good ideas? > > Return to the Wrath of the Immortals? Err... > > Havard > > ===== > *** > Håvard R. Faanes > www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa > > ______________________________________________________ > Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på > http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ > Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet > og dobbelt så morsom > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ===== If you have to choose between books and computers, there's no doubt which you should choose. You should choose books. --Bill Gates of Microsoft ---------------------------------------------- Geek Code: GLS$ d- s:+ a C++ UL++++ P? L++ E---- W++ N+ o-- K- w--- O? M- V-- PS+++ PE Y PGP- t+ 5-- X+++ R++ tv-- b++ DI- D---- G-- e+++ h--- r+++ y+++ ---------------------------------------------- Don't tell me the RIAA are a bunch of hypocritical, dishonest bastards! Now I have nothing left to believe in. (www.slashdot.org) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 15:20:20 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Return to... ============================================================ From: Havard Faanes In any case, I agree that this one has lots of potential! :) ============================================================ Even going in the lines of CM1, if adventurers end up "losing" at the Return to B10, they could restart as expatriate nobles from Karameikos (with a bad taste in the mouth from Thyatian style politics). Other hooks would be the Duke looking for places to put the elves and have the players explore rumors of deserted cities in hidden valleys, only to find the valleys are not deserted, but full of newer generations of Hutaaka or over run by gnolls using advanced weapons and spells of the Hutaaka. Players would need to find a way to trap them in or they may be responsible for bringing another dark age of gnollish invasions to Karameikos. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 15:38:34 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Return to... ============================================================ From: Havard Faanes Now, however, I am starting to see your point. The Rahasia scenario does indeed fit quite well with the elves of Minrothad and the encounter between Ylarii and elves. ============================================================ Another convert to "The Way" ;-) I am thinking of the Verdier names like Elsan, Kasan and a few other "Middle Eastern" feeling names. Keeping up with the Mysticism, the Siswa could also be the missing link to the "brotherhood" of Hule and the Ylari. I am thinking of the storyline that a family of Verdier elves stole an Oltec artifact that Priests of Hule once revered. This could happen when the two clans traversed the Savage Coast to Eastern Brun. Eloysis? the wizard could have hailed from Jaibul or Sind and brought that form of Mysticism to the elves. Agents of Hule could have at one time steal back their relic, and Al-Kalim may have travelled to Hule to win it back, creating some kind of bond between the two cultures. Al-Kalim brings back the relic to the greatful elves, and now the elves control a mecca point of the followers of Al-Kalim to view this relic and share use names and ideas between the two cultures. Possibly knowledge of the elven relic is the bargaining tool to make the Ylari side wit h Hule during their campaigns. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 15:50:36 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Return to Rahasia In keeping the ocean connection of Hule to Sind to Ylari, via the elves. The three witch sisters could be originally of Sindhi or Hulean descent. Some living relatives could then be related directly or indirectly to the Belcadiz in Glantri (giving their Secret Craft an ancient Sindhi or Hulean origin). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:49:24 +0100 From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: The Linguistic and Ethnographic Issue, 4 (long) > D. Celtic languages; continental celts are nearly > exterminated; all modern celtic languages descend from > british celts: > > -->3.1 Irish > -->3.2 Scottish > -->3.3 Cymraeg (Welsh) > -->3.4 Cornic > -->3.5 Bretonnian > Throughout my life I was taught that the Gaelic tongues (Irish, Scottish) originated in Spain. and that is why they are different to the Gallic tongues (Welsh, Cornish, and Breton) which came to Britain from France. I don't know if that's true but that's what I learned growing up here in Ireland. I think the reason for the difference is the Gaelic tongue has some bit of a north African influence. Primarily Egyptian. I may have just got that last bit from Myths and legends though. Mortus. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 06:41:50 +1000 From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Vaults of Pandius Idea At 04:16 PM 5/07/2004 +0200, you wrote: > Hi, > this is mainly an idea for Shawn, but I decided to > post it here rather than to him directly. > > One thing Id like to see at the Vaults would be a > Recent Articles page, one where there would be links > to the articles from the last update. This page would > be more or less identical to the Update Email many of > us receive everytime the Vaults get updated. > > Good idea? Or not? I never particularly publicised that but if you go down the front page where the counter is. The words "last updated" in that sentence lead to a list of recent articles. shawn stanley what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Jul 2004 to 5 Jul 2004 (#2004-137) **************************************************************