Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 13 Jan 2004 to 14 Jan 2004 (#2004-15) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 15/01/2004, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 10 messages totalling 589 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Dwarves (4) 2. Goblinoids (Was: Dwarves) (4) 3. Elves in Northern Davania 4. Dwarven lifespan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:25:26 +0100 From: "Kessel, Laszko van" Subject: Re: Dwarves I used a Hydratroll once in my campaign. A wizard's tower exploded when the PCs just arrived and the bits of trolls came flying through the air (beside the stones of the tower). After a while the PCs realised that the bits of trolls were still dangerous. So they had to search the debris for all the missing pieces of the hydratroll, who started to regenerate fast into complete trolls. LOL. Laszko -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] Namens Thibault Sarlat Verzonden: woensdag 14 januari 2004 8:49 Aan: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Onderwerp: Re: [MYSTARA] Dwarves i do like this Hydra troll Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. Personal homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st thibault-sarlat@wanadoo.fr clenariusfr@yahoo.fr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Cherrington" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Dwarves > > > > From: Thibault Sarlat > > > > i'm sorry that ou misinterpreted my words. > > by real world i meant the kind of troll that were "created" in movies such > > as "the fellowship of the ring" or "harry potter" > > i'm in for your idea of very different troll like figures; > > I was very disappointed by the Peter jackson trilogy and i did not wanted to > > launch a debate on that movie. > > > > it's just that as a purist tolkien fan, i cannot see the troll evolve much. > > > I for one love the hag from "Legend", I picture trolls in that manner, only they are less vane and think more from their stomache. Grendle trolls are good examples too of how I like my trolls. I created a Hyborean gargantuan troll named Bamala. She would chew cud with other trolls as a form of dispatching punishment. Has anyone ever thought of a Hydra-troll? When you wack off an arm on this troll, it regenerates as a seperate troll (and the first will regenerate its arm). A Greater version would regenerate two arms! > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 06:58:23 -0600 From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: Dwarves
>I for one love the hag from "Legend", I picture trolls in that manner, only they are less vane and think more from their stomache.  
 
Did you know that the person who played the hag was Robert Picardo? He is the same actor who plays the holographic doctor on Star Trek Voyager.
 
 
 
                                                                  Multizar the Mage
                                                                  Filled with useless information

Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed experience. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:00:17 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Dwarves --- Chris Cherrington wrote: > Trolls? Why would there be a lot of trolls in > Davania? Davania should have its own breed of nasty > humanoids. A remnant from the elves or something > even more sinister, elves that survived Vulcania's > destruction by breeding with other survivors. Since > this was the time of beastmen, the mutation could be > greatly different from anything seen before on Brun, > whole new races of humanoids, green orcs, blue > goblins, halftrolls (same as a normal troll, but > half the size and double the number). OTOH, I would have liked to see more Humanoid nations on Mystara, like the Kogolor Orcs and the Dark Jungle Orcs. I like how in Kalamar, Hobgoblins are considered a major race, and one can even play hobgoblins and half-hobgoblins. The Broken Lands are cool enough, but i'd prefer more countries dominated by one humanoid race, rather than one country filled with all the nasties.. And individual cultures, those are vital, and very Mystaran too :) Havard ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:39:57 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Dwarves Havard Faanes wrote: > > OTOH, I would have liked to see more Humanoid nations on Mystara, > like the Kogolor Orcs and the Dark Jungle Orcs. Krugel Orcs, the Kogolor are dwarves :) Well, we have the Yazakan goblinoids, and the Robrenn goblinoids (Picts etc). Also, the Gruugak Gnolls of Graakhalia, and the Carrascal Gnolls. Plus the goblinoids of Hule, and the Ogrekin of Sumag and Gombar (and Tangor)! The Trolls of Trollhattan, and the N'djatwa of Davania and the Ogres of Mengul Mountains, and the Darokinian Orclands. Basically, there's plenty of goblinoids around, looking for some development :) > The Broken Lands are cool enough, but i'd prefer more countries > dominated by one humanoid race, rather than one country filled with > all the nasties.. Well, now that's a problem, since the Mystaran goblinoids are descended from the same original stock (Beastmen), and therefore have been living in mixed groups for a long time. For the type of goblinoid nation you describe, the best locations would be Tangor or north-western Davania, where one could find the last descendant's of Wogar's tribe. There's certainly a large nation of Ogrekin somewhere in Tangor that could be used. -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:45:24 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Goblinoids (Was: Dwarves) --- Giampaolo Agosta skrev: > Havard Faanes wrote: > > > > > OTOH, I would have liked to see more Humanoid > nations on Mystara, > > like the Kogolor Orcs and the Dark Jungle Orcs. > > Krugel Orcs, the Kogolor are dwarves :) Ooops! I haven't fully recovered from new years celebrations yet, it seems. Krugel were the ones I meant obviously. > Well, we have the Yazakan goblinoids, and the > Robrenn goblinoids (Picts > etc). I though about the Yazak ones which are very cool. In fact Savage Coast campaigns might well want to include rules from the Kalamar Players guide and allow Goblin and Hobgoblin PCs. Not that they are too popular everywhere ofcourse... Have the Robrenn Goblinoids been developed by anyone? Pictish goblinoids..I like the sound of that! Also, I guess the Dymrak Forest is a micro-kingdom of goblins, at least it was IMC, where it had them backed up by a circle of powerful Hag wizards. > Also, the Gruugak Gnolls of Graakhalia, and the > Carrascal Gnolls. > Plus the goblinoids of Hule, and the Ogrekin of > Sumag and Gombar (and > Tangor)! > The Trolls of Trollhattan, and the N'djatwa of > Davania and the Ogres of > Mengul Mountains, and the Darokinian Orclands. > > Basically, there's plenty of goblinoids around, > looking for some > development :) Yup you're right! Much more than I though about! Whats the story of the Mengul Mountain Ogres? I always throught of having barbaric dwarves in the foothills there (Something for "La Volpe"?). Possible scenario: Perhaps the dwarves, originally colonizers from Rockhome were driven out of the mountains by the Ogres and reverted to a more barbaric culture. > > The Broken Lands are cool enough, but i'd prefer > more countries > > dominated by one humanoid race, rather than one > country filled with > > all the nasties.. > > Well, now that's a problem, since the Mystaran > goblinoids are descended > from the same original stock (Beastmen), and > therefore have been living > in mixed groups for a long time. True, but there is no reason why, in many places they couldn't have split up, like many of the examples you provide above. > For the type of goblinoid nation you describe, the > best locations would > be Tangor or north-western Davania, where one could > find the last > descendant's of Wogar's tribe. > There's certainly a large nation of Ogrekin > somewhere in Tangor that > could be used. Yep true. There is apparently few Canon sources indicating humanoid civilizations on Davania. OTOH, there may have been more expeditions going south from Brun than is mentioned in Canon. I see no reason for not having a multitude of humanoid civilizations on Davania aswell. Ofcourse Davania is also ideal for having various lizard-kin races. (See the Mystaros-timeline for background inspiration there...) Havard ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:13:06 -0800 From: Thibault Sarlat Subject: Re: Goblinoids (Was: Dwarves) without betraying the content of the AC 1019 almanach, there are several non human civilization depicted in Davania (Crabemen, Orcs (very special indeed), Troglodytes, Carnifex etc...) I guess that is enough for one year. More shall come next year (AC 1020). thib --- Havard Faanes wrote: > --- Giampaolo Agosta > skrev: > > Havard Faanes wrote: > > > > > > > > OTOH, I would have liked to see more Humanoid > > nations on Mystara, > > > like the Kogolor Orcs and the Dark Jungle Orcs. > > > > Krugel Orcs, the Kogolor are dwarves :) > > Ooops! I haven't fully recovered from new years > celebrations yet, it seems. Krugel were the ones I > meant obviously. > > > Well, we have the Yazakan goblinoids, and the > > Robrenn goblinoids (Picts > > etc). > > I though about the Yazak ones which are very cool. > In > fact Savage Coast campaigns might well want to > include > rules from the Kalamar Players guide and allow > Goblin > and Hobgoblin PCs. Not that they are too popular > everywhere ofcourse... > > Have the Robrenn Goblinoids been developed by > anyone? > Pictish goblinoids..I like the sound of that! > > Also, I guess the Dymrak Forest is a micro-kingdom > of > goblins, at least it was IMC, where it had them > backed > up by a circle of powerful Hag wizards. > > > Also, the Gruugak Gnolls of Graakhalia, and the > > Carrascal Gnolls. > > Plus the goblinoids of Hule, and the Ogrekin of > > Sumag and Gombar (and > > Tangor)! > > The Trolls of Trollhattan, and the N'djatwa of > > Davania and the Ogres of > > Mengul Mountains, and the Darokinian Orclands. > > > > Basically, there's plenty of goblinoids around, > > looking for some > > development :) > > Yup you're right! Much more than I though about! > Whats > the story of the Mengul Mountain Ogres? I always > throught of having barbaric dwarves in the foothills > there (Something for "La Volpe"?). Possible > scenario: > Perhaps the dwarves, originally colonizers from > Rockhome were driven out of the mountains by the > Ogres > and reverted to a more barbaric culture. > > > > The Broken Lands are cool enough, but i'd > prefer > > more countries > > > dominated by one humanoid race, rather than one > > country filled with > > > all the nasties.. > > > > Well, now that's a problem, since the Mystaran > > goblinoids are descended > > from the same original stock (Beastmen), and > > therefore have been living > > in mixed groups for a long time. > > True, but there is no reason why, in many places > they > couldn't have split up, like many of the examples > you > provide above. > > > > For the type of goblinoid nation you describe, the > > best locations would > > be Tangor or north-western Davania, where one > could > > find the last > > descendant's of Wogar's tribe. > > There's certainly a large nation of Ogrekin > > somewhere in Tangor that > > could be used. > > Yep true. There is apparently few Canon sources > indicating humanoid civilizations on Davania. OTOH, > there may have been more expeditions going south > from > Brun than is mentioned in Canon. I see no reason for > not having a multitude of humanoid civilizations on > Davania aswell. > > Ofcourse Davania is also ideal for having various > lizard-kin races. (See the Mystaros-timeline for > background inspiration there...) > > Havard > > ______________________________________________________ > Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på > http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ > Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med > superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== Thibault SARLAT a.k.a Clenarius www.mystara.fr.st ICQ 16622177 MSN Messenger: clenarius@hotmail.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:23:33 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Goblinoids (Was: Dwarves) > > From: Havard Faanes > > Yup you're right! Much more than I though about! Whats > the story of the Mengul Mountain Ogres? I always > throught of having barbaric dwarves in the foothills > there (Something for "La Volpe"?). Possible scenario: > Perhaps the dwarves, originally colonizers from > Rockhome were driven out of the mountains by the Ogres > and reverted to a more barbaric culture. > The Mengul Mountain Ogres where originally from Sind, they were forced out when Wogar moved west. These displaced ogres enslaved and interbred with various other orcs and humans, causing migrations of Antalians to move further west and eventually become the Robrenn and Eusdrian inhabitants of the Savage Coast. I did a right up on the interbreeds that stayed on the Adri Varma Plateau, the Ogrihz. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:27:29 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Goblinoids (Was: Dwarves) Havard Faanes wrote: > > I though about the Yazak ones which are very cool. In > fact Savage Coast campaigns might well want to include > rules from the Kalamar Players guide and allow Goblin > and Hobgoblin PCs. Not that they are too popular > everywhere ofcourse... Well, in Mystara, goblinoid PCs should be allowed, especially in the Savage Coast. > Have the Robrenn Goblinoids been developed by anyone? > Pictish goblinoids..I like the sound of that! Not much written. There are some three clans of celtic goblinoids, I suppose they were meant to represent the more brutal practices of the RW celts, like head hunting. > Also, I guess the Dymrak Forest is a micro-kingdom of > goblins, at least it was IMC, where it had them backed > up by a circle of powerful Hag wizards. Ah, yes, the goblins and hobgoblins in B10 and other Karameikan sources. There must be several of these smaller clans, like the Orcs in the Altan Tepee foothills in Karameikos, or the Gnolls in Ylaruam. > Yup you're right! Much more than I though about! Whats > the story of the Mengul Mountain Ogres? They are mentioned in Saga of the Shadowlord. There isn't much of an history, though. Several Ogres appear in the module as mercenaries for Teriak's armies, as do other goblinoids. > I always > throught of having barbaric dwarves in the foothills > there (Something for "La Volpe"?). Possible scenario: > Perhaps the dwarves, originally colonizers from > Rockhome were driven out of the mountains by the Ogres > and reverted to a more barbaric culture. That's possible. Rockhome had at long time of expansion and colonization -- probably under the Syrklist kings, when they sent expeditions as far as Oceansend, Glantri, Thanegioth and the Savage Coast. > True, but there is no reason why, in many places they > couldn't have split up, like many of the examples you > provide above. Yes, though most of the migratory routes fall in well-known regions (KW, SC), so there's little left unexplored. > Yep true. There is apparently few Canon sources > indicating humanoid civilizations on Davania. OTOH, > there may have been more expeditions going south from > Brun than is mentioned in Canon. I see no reason for > not having a multitude of humanoid civilizations on > Davania aswell. It is possible, though I think they should not be present in the areas occupied by the Milenians (i.e., north-eastern Davania). Ogres certainly arrived to the mountains near the Green Bay, where Haldemar found the N'djatwa, so they should have marched through Izonda and Brasol. > Ofcourse Davania is also ideal for having various > lizard-kin races. (See the Mystaros-timeline for > background inspiration there...) Of course, there is a lizard-kin race originally from the Aryptian desert, IIRC, and then the troglodytes and, if used, the Yuan-ti. -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:45:30 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Elves in Northern Davania Evil DM smoking gears as his grin widens… Elven civilizations that are much older and less influenced than the Sylvan remnants of Ilsundal’s migration? Got to love that idea; the Alryll plot reminds me of an adventure from Dungeon Magazine, Dark Heart or something. It’s about a treant turned to evil, much like the willow in the Old Forest of LOTR. Many of the Sylvan elves believe in all that is good and neutral of the forests, could we not have a strain of elves that believe in all that is evil and malign of the forests? An artifact that poisons the water with a curse that turns the treants, elves, forest creatures, and anything else that drinks the water for a long time to forces of vile intent. Even fey and fairy have twisted over time; a Dark Dryad that needs to feed its oak fresh meat, or needs to turn its victims into trees so they can increase their movement from home? Even Elven defilers strike some sense of their post Ilsundal survival. The Kwythellar sound intriguing as well, long lived elves with hu man/goblin slaves. They sound like they would create a brutal caste system, even of their own kind. Of course the humans are much too resilient to certain slave work, and the goblins are not long lived, so breeding techniques would need to be employed with the two races. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:15:09 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Dwarven lifespan Referring to Giampalo's recent message and Iulius's article: I forgot that the Gazetteer limits the dwarven lifespan to 200 years, with the life periods that Giampalo mentioned. If I remember correctly (I don't have the old Master Set or Rules Cyclopedia at hand, so I can't check), the original rules said that dwarves would live 300-500 years, in any case longer than 200. With 200 years 40-60 years sounds ok as the length of the reign, if one wants to keep up the idea of traditional abdication. And as has been mentioned, there would be good reasons for such a tradition. One more would be that the dwarves, being a craftsman culture, wish to return to their old unfinished projects after serving their country in the boring field of politics. Ville ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 13 Jan 2004 to 14 Jan 2004 (#2004-15) ***************************************************************