Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 14 Jan 2004 to 15 Jan 2004 (#2004-16) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 16/01/2004, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 14 messages totalling 431 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Dwarven lifespan 2. Dwarves of Skothar & Dwarven Relics (7) 3. Chaositech and the Outer Beings (2) 4. About the immortal Nyx (2) 5. The City of Kelvin 6. Dwarves & Modrigswerg + question for Skytte ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:15:33 +1000 From: Adam horsten Subject: Re: Dwarven lifespan Original age limit for dwarves from the cyclopaedia is 375+d100 years (recomended) Anakin Ville V Lähde wrote: > Referring to Giampalo's recent message and Iulius's article: > > I forgot that the Gazetteer limits the dwarven lifespan to 200 years, with > the life periods that Giampalo mentioned. If I remember correctly (I don't > have the old Master Set or Rules Cyclopedia at hand, so I can't check), > the original rules said that dwarves would live 300-500 years, in any case > longer than 200. > > With 200 years 40-60 years sounds ok as the length of the reign, if one > wants to keep up the idea of traditional abdication. And as has been > mentioned, there would be good reasons for such a tradition. One more > would be that the dwarves, being a craftsman culture, wish to return to > their old unfinished projects after serving their country in the boring > field of politics. > > Ville > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:16:46 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Dwarves of Skothar & Dwarven Relics Although only a name, the Dwarven Kingdom of Thorin puzzles me. Why did the Dwarves have to move there from Rockhome? Any idea? Suggestions are welcome. Moreover, how many Relic-Ships (name escapes me now) would the Denwarf have? What would they use them to? Could some dwarven migration have used them at least as an exploring device? (examples: to move to Thorin, to move to Norwold, to move to Highforge, at least to check the surroundings if they could be good for them to settle etc.). Thanks in advance. Giulio ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:25:12 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Dwarves of Skothar & Dwarven Relics la Volpe wrote: > Although only a name, the Dwarven Kingdom of Thorin > puzzles me. Why did the Dwarves have to move there > from Rockhome? > Any idea? > Suggestions are welcome. Uhm, where is this mentioned? The only "Thorin" I remember is a bay in Thonia, IIRC. > Moreover, how many Relic-Ships (name escapes me now) > would the Denwarf have? What would they use them to? > Could some dwarven migration have used them at least > as an exploring device? (examples: to move to Thorin, > to move to Norwold, to move to Highforge, at least > to check the surroundings if they could be good for > them to settle etc.). More likely to be used for scouting, since they can load only a limited number of dwarves. Unless they have a massive fleet (which I doubt) they will not be able to use it for a colonial expedition. -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:53:59 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Dwarves of Skothar & Dwarven Relics --- la Volpe skrev: > Although only a name, the Dwarven Kingdom of Thorin > puzzles me. Why did the Dwarves have to move there > from Rockhome? > Any idea? > Suggestions are welcome. Ah, The Bay of Thorin! I always throught there were dwarves there. Some ideas: * The dwarves of Thorinia are seafaring dwarves using Viking-like ships * They did not migrate there from Rockhome, but were in fact planted there by Kagyar in the first place. * These dwarves have found serval ancient Blackmoor arrtifacts in the mountains. Kagyar knows about this and is keeping it secret from the other Immortals out of fear of what they would do if they knew that so many artifacts had survived. > Moreover, how many Relic-Ships (name escapes me now) > would the Denwarf have? What would they use them to? > Could some dwarven migration have used them at least > as an exploring device? (examples: to move to > Thorin, > to move to Norwold, to move to Highforge, at least > to check the surroundings if they could be good for > them to settle etc.). This is a good idea. I would say not too many, but at least one or two for each clan these days. In Denwarfs days it may have been alot more though. Havard ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:48:23 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Dwarves of Skothar & Dwarven Relics la Volpe wrote: >Moreover, how many Relic-Ships (name escapes me now) > would the Denwarf have? What would they use them to? > Could some dwarven migration have used them at least > as an exploring device? (examples: to move to Thorin, > to move to Norwold, to move to Highforge, at least > to check the surroundings if they could be good for > them to settle etc.). They could have some (limited) military use. They would be good for troop transport against invasions upon their underground homes (delivering dwarven forces to tunnels around, behind, above, below any enemy attackers) allowing for a wide variety of tactics- cutting off invaders from their allies; attacking right to the heart of an invading force's command center; mobile fighting platform (dwarven crossbowmen firing from the moving ship as it plows through enemy forces then disappears back into the rock). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:24:19 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Dwarves of Skothar & Dwarven Relics > > From: Havard Faanes > Some ideas: > * The dwarves of Thorinia are seafaring dwarves using > Viking-like ships Their arms are too short, they would need to modify the oars to run off of a cranking mechanism, peddle power! > * They did not migrate there from Rockhome, but were > in fact planted there by Kagyar in the first place. Why Kagyar? Could there be another immortal that liked Kagyar’s intervention of this race and replicated it, or was Thorin a dwarven hero that achieved immortality pre-Blackmoor explosion and saw what Kagyar did, and he disliked or liked what he did and tried to do the same, or better, or different. > * These dwarves have found serval ancient Blackmoor > arrtifacts in the mountains. Kagyar knows about this > and is keeping it secret from the other Immortals out > of fear of what they would do if they knew that so > many artifacts had survived. Again, why Kagyar or Kagyar alone? I am not proposing a new dwarven race hatched from petrified eggs or anything, but the rumor sounds good (why are there no dwarven women? Or are they wearing beards?) But some good points to make are Thorin’s dwarves hairless? And they wear fake beards similar to Nithian ceremonial beards? Did some of Thorin’s dwarves see the great monuments of Nithia and/or Oltecs? Possibly making Thorin’s dwarves more masters of engineering than crafts. Dwarves digging in stone thousands of years earlier than Denwarf’s could produce wonderful lost cities ala Moria. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:40:07 -0800 From: John Calvin Subject: Chaositech and the Outer Beings Hi all, I'm just wondering if anyone has purchased Monte Cook's "Chaositech" product (pdf). It seems like it might be a nice fit for OB worshipers, and was just wondering what others thought. If anyone actually has the product please let me know. -John ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:42:11 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Dwarves of Skothar & Dwarven Relics > > From: Andrew Theisen > They could have some (limited) military use. They would be good for troop transport against invasions upon their underground homes (delivering dwarven forces to tunnels around, behind, above, below any enemy attackers) allowing for a wide variety of tactics- cutting off invaders from their allies; attacking right to the heart of an invading force's command center; mobile fighting platform (dwarven crossbowmen firing from the moving ship as it plows through enemy forces then disappears back into the rock). > I think the time and expense of crafting such devices would warrent them too risky of an investment to use militarily. What would happen if the boat was captured? The better use of these wonderous crafts is to use them for exploring. Finding bigger deposits, larger caverns for growth, following rich deposits for tapping, and rescues from natural disasters. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:37:52 -0800 From: SUBSCRIBE MYSTARA-L Lothlann Subject: About the immortal Nyx Hello to all, i've found some documents about Nyx, and i cannot tell what kind of immortal is: Giampaolo Agosta on his site write that Nyx is Lawful Evil, in some other sites i've found a different alignment. So, this immortal has evil purposes, or she's more "soft" than an evil? Bye to all ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:41:24 +0000 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: About the immortal Nyx SUBSCRIBE MYSTARA-L Lothlann wrote: > Hello to all, > i've found some documents about Nyx, and i cannot tell what kind of > immortal is: Giampaolo Agosta on his site write that Nyx is Lawful Evil, Ahem, I should probably update that table... > in some other sites i've found a different alignment. > So, this immortal has evil purposes, or she's more "soft" than an evil? I think that, canon-wise, she's Neutral. She's one of those Immortals who are quite difficult to classify -- like Ixion, who has followers of many different alignments. Bye, GP -- di nuovo come un tempo sopra l'Italia intera urla il vento e soffia la bufera ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:40:44 -0800 From: Brendan Johnson Subject: The City of Kelvin I'm going to be runing a campaign set around the years 970-975. Just after Stephan Karameikos III puts down the Marilenv rebellion (971). Here's my question. Specularum was called The City of Marilenev but what was Kelvin called before 970. It mentions in Gaz 1 that there were fisherman there before the Kelvin's arrived. The current population of the city (year 1000) is 20,000 could the city grow from a few fisherman to 20,000 in just 30 years? I also know that Castle Kelvin was built on the ruins of the village of Lavv. Is it possible the fisherman called their village Lavv? IMO the village of Lavv was lost so I don't think they would be called Lavv. Any help would be appreciated thanks Brendan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:14:13 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Dwarves & Modrigswerg + question for Skytte la Volpe wrote: > Moreover, I am planning to translate the third part of > the Dwarven History. It's very very long and detailed > and contemplates almost all clans that are found in > the Known World and beyond, except for those of the > Savage Coast. I've been enjoying what you've done so far. I'm curious why you had Korinn change his name to Styrklint I, rather than Daroban VI, though. In any case, I thought I'd leave you with information on the Filwarf dwarvish history that I've done thus far, and see if you can use it to fit them into your dwarvish history. I hope to flesh this out quite a bit more (and have several additions in my head, but not actually written down) but this might give you a good start, and you might even be able to come up with some ideas I hadn't thought of. History of the Filwarves The first dwarvish settlers on the Isle of Dawn were stoneworkers and masons who answered the call from Thyatis for assistance in building the fortress of Redstone on the western shores of the Isle of Dawn. Many of these dwarves stayed on after the construction of Redstone, and helped to build many other Thyatian fortresses. As the island began to be settled by more Thyatians, and conflicts between the Alphatians and Thyatians intensified, the dwarves found that their talents as builders could also be used as siege engineers, and they became instrumental in military engagements. A call was sent out to their brethren on the mainland, who journeyed overseas and served the humans as weapon and armorsmiths. These dwarvish settlers found a lucrative trade in the arms business, and quickly found that they could profit even more by selling to both sides of the island conflicts- Thyatian and Alphatian. As they settled into their greed, putting their talents towards war and profiteer ing, their patron, Kagyar, grew ever more angry with them. His people were supposed to create and build, not destroy, and not for mere monetary gain. In a final fit of pique, Kagyar cursed the two Forges of Power that the dwarves had brought with them to the Isle of Dawn, and turned his back on the dwarves there. The dwarves of the Isle of Dawn, originally known as the “Konwarf” (or, “Those born with the Dawn”) became known as the “Filwarf” to all other dwarves- “Those born in the Dusk”, and were forever considered outcasts from the mainland dwarvish race. The double-dealing, overly avaricious filwarf are frowned upon by all other dwarves to this day. Postscript one- Legend has it that when Kagyar threw his curse down upon the dwarves' Forges of Power that they all shaved off their beards, throwing them into the forges, and walked away into the night. Though this story is widely regarded as hyperbole, it is true that filwarf dwarves do not wear long beards like traditional denwarf dwarves. Indeed, most filwarves go beardless or, less often, short bearded or simply wear large mustaches. The locations of the two Forges of Power are unknown. It is rumored that one is still held by the dwarves of House Blyskyr, and used for occasional nefarious purposes, but the other one is considered truly lost. Postscript two- Some rumors have it that the turning of the filwarves to the ways of warfare and avarice were the result of the immortal Wayland Smith (known among dwarves as Volund Fotarsky) attempting to draw them away from the worship of Kagyar. It is said that he wanted to regain their obeisance and worship from the Artisan, who stole the hearts of the dwarves after the Great Rain of Fire. Dwarvish scholars, who know Kagyar as the creator of the dwarvish race, scoff at any inference that dwarves ever worshipped Volund. Whatever the truth of the rumor, it is a fact that among the few filwarf clerics, more are followers of Volund than of any other Immortal. (Back to the history) The curse of Kagyar deterred the Filwarves not in the least. They experienced some hardships at first, and they splintered, wandering across the land, and finding homes among the humans- dwarven ghettoes in the cities and towns. The strong familial ties that dwarves elsewhere in the world knew were lost to the filwarves. They forgot their native tongue and adopted the decadent ways of humankind. Yet they continued to prosper, using their talents for wartime profiteering. Eventually, a kind of surrogate “clan” was formed. One group of dwarves, who had turned their racial affinity for precious metals into banking and accounting skills, formed a limited partnership- a trade guild, of sorts. These dwarves were the founders of House Barrklist, and their association allowed them to quickly become the leading economists of the rugged Isle of Dawn. The founding of House Barrklist sparked a similar revolution among the other dwarves, who gradually organized themselves into similar guilds. Houses Blyskyr and Makrak were the next to form, in an attempt to stave off human entrepreneurs into the war markets (Blyskyr was formed amongst the weaponsmiths of the dwarves, and Makrak was founded by descendants of the dwarves who built Castle Redstone, and consisted largely of siege engineers and masons). Eventually, the more artistic House Thraest was formed, followed, finally, by the mining house of Krutar. The Houses are not clans in the traditional sense. There are no direct familial ties between the members (though many members may be related to one another). Rather, when a filwarf comes of age, his parents apprentice him to one of the houses, in hopes that he will attain his journeyman status there, and become a productive member of society. Which house the dwarf is apprenticed to depends on many factors- location, family preference, and occasionally status (some houses are very picky about who they allow to join). Some dwarves join other, lesser, houses or form houses of their own (though few of these reach the stature of the big 5). Many dwarves either do not or cannot be apprenticed to a house, or simply abandon their apprenticeships out of boredom or laziness. The houses are not like denwarf dwarvish clans. Filwarf dwarves often wear tattoos, have piercings, spiked hair, no (or rarely) beards. They dress in human fashions. They wear ostentatious amounts of jewelry and other displays of wealth (even the poor among the filwarf try to show off in this manner as much as possible). Hope you find this information useful. I'll post more as I work on it. (BTW, I updated the Twilight of the Dawn website again, and it has a lot of this information on it). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:37:32 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Dwarves of Skothar & Dwarven Relics Agathokles wrote: > Uhm, where is this mentioned? The only "Thorin" I remember is a bay in Thonia, IIRC. Giulio may have been referring to a timeline that I wrote about the Bay of Thorin region a few years back. I can't remember whether I thought dwarves might live in that region, or whether someone else had devised the idea, but "Thorin" sounds like a dwarvish name to me (it could also be a reminder of Thorin Oakenshield, a character in Salvatore's "Crystal Shard"). In my timeline, I don't recall speculating as to when the dwarves migrated there, but they could presumably have been placed there at the same time as the dwarves of Rockhome were "created" - perhaps Kagyar desired a backup, just in case the Rockhome colony failed? Alternatively, some dwarves may have been guided there in subsequent years (by Immortals of others), or they may have been forced to leave for various (now forgotten) reasons. Regardless, the mountains surrounding that region are probably rich in all sorts of ores - enough to keep a sizeable dwarvish colony/kingdom busy. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:43:47 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Chaositech and the Outer Beings > > Hi all, > > I'm just wondering if anyone has purchased Monte Cook's "Chaositech" product > (pdf). It seems like it might be a nice fit for OB worshipers, and was just > wondering what others thought. If anyone actually has the product please let > me know. > > -John This is the first time I've heard about this one - can anyone provide more information about it? Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 14 Jan 2004 to 15 Jan 2004 (#2004-16) ***************************************************************