Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 15 Jan 2004 to 16 Jan 2004 (#2004-17) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 17/01/2004, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 7 messages totalling 311 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Thorin Oakenshield <= Tolkien's Hobbit (5) 2. Chaositech and the Outer Beings 3. The City of Kelvin ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 00:30:46 -0800 From: Thibault Sarlat Subject: Thorin Oakenshield <= Tolkien's Hobbit BOOOOOO Geoff !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thorin Oakenshield comes from Tolkien's "Hobbit". He's the chief of the dwarves who led Bilbo to the Erebor expedition... thib --- Geoff Gander wrote: > Agathokles wrote: > > >Uhm, where is this mentioned? The only "Thorin" I > remember is a bay in Thonia, IIRC. > > Giulio may have been referring to a timeline that I > wrote about the Bay of > Thorin region a few years back. I can't remember > whether I thought > dwarves might live in that region, or whether > someone else had devised the > idea, but "Thorin" sounds like a dwarvish name to me > (it could also be a > reminder of Thorin Oakenshield, a character in > Salvatore's "Crystal Shard"). > > In my timeline, I don't recall speculating as to > when the dwarves migrated > there, but they could presumably have been placed > there at the same time > as the dwarves of Rockhome were "created" - perhaps > Kagyar desired a > backup, just in case the Rockhome colony failed? > Alternatively, some > dwarves may have been guided there in subsequent > years (by Immortals of > others), or they may have been forced to leave for > various (now forgotten) > reasons. > > Regardless, the mountains surrounding that region > are probably rich in all > sorts of ores - enough to keep a sizeable dwarvish > colony/kingdom busy. > > Geoff > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 > Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer > Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy > au998@freenet.carleton.ca : > www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== Thibault SARLAT a.k.a Clenarius www.mystara.fr.st ICQ 16622177 MSN Messenger: clenarius@hotmail.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:11:32 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Thorin Oakenshield <= Tolkien's Hobbit Also called Thorin II. The son of Thráin II, and brother to Frerin and Dís, he was born in the year 2746 of the Third Age. He never married. He got the name 'Oakenshield' when he was quite young. In 2799 there was a battle between the dwarves and the orcs called the Battle of the Nanduhirion. Thorin marched into the battle with a great dwarf army, but during the course of the fighting his shield was broken. He then cut a bow from a great oak tree with his axe, and used the bough to stave off the orc's blows, and to club them. The branch gave Thorin his last name, but it didn't save him from injury; he was wounded in the battle. For a while, Thorin and his father Thrain II settled in Ered Luin with some of their kin. In 2941 of the Third Age Thorin set out to get revenge on Smaug who had taken over the Lonely Mountain when Thorin's grandfather Thrór was King under the Mountain. Thorin escaped from the wrath of Smaug because he was outside of the mountain, exploring. He had help from 12 of his kin; Dwalin, Balin, Oin, Gloin, Dori, Nori, Ori, Fili, Kili, Bifur, Bofur and Bombur. He also had the guidance of the wizard Gandalf. When Thorin said he didn't want to go on a quest with 13 members because it was unlucky, Gandalf suggested they use Bilbo Baggins. When Thorin arrived at Bag End he was wearing a sky-blue hood with a silver tassel. He also played the harp. On their quest, Thorin found a sword called Orcrist in a troll's hoard. Among the things that happened to him on the quest was being attacked by orcs, caught by spiders and imprisoned by the elves of Mirkwood. When they got into the mountain, and he had claimed his title of King Under the Mountain, Thorin wanted most to find a stone called the Arkenstone: the treasure found at the heart of the mountain. When he died after the Battle of the Five Armies the stone was laid on his grave, along with his sword Orcrist. by Hathaldir on 10/15/02 www.councilofelrond.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:26:47 -0800 From: Thibault Sarlat Subject: Re: Thorin Oakenshield <= Tolkien's Hobbit Chris, i see that you are as die hard as i am on this matter. Greetings Chris! thib ===== Thibault SARLAT a.k.a Clenarius www.mystara.fr.st ICQ 16622177 MSN Messenger: clenarius@hotmail.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:44:14 -0800 From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Chaositech and the Outer Beings >> This is the first time I've heard about this one - can anyone provide more information about it? Geoff << Here you go: ****************************************** http://www.montecook.com/mpress_Chaos.html Chaositech By Monte Cook A 112-page sourcebook for all levels Cover illustration by rk post Interior illustrations by Toren "MacBin" Atkinson, Eric Lofgren, Peter Schlough, and Kieran Yanner, Electronic edition now on sale. Print edition coming in March 2004. Law and Order—Beware... Chaos seethes with the primal forces of the universe. The strong can harness its power within strange devices unlike anything the world has ever seen: chaositech. Chaos Rules! This unique sourcebook from 3rd Edition codesigner Monte Cook introduces chaos-powered items that resemble both technology and magic, but are truly neither. Within these pages, discover the secrets of devices like the cohesion blaster, the darkness imbiber, and chaosomatons. Chaositech also contains rules for chaos magic, including dozens of new spells, plus lots of original feats and prestige classes. Topping it off are chaos cults, mutation rules, plus the Galchutt, the fused aberration, and other all-new chaotic monsters. Much of the content of this book is pulled directly from Monte's long-running Ptolus campaign. It's proven material ready to drop into any campaign. Harness the wild power of chaos with this d20 sourcebook! As an added bonus: ****************************************** http://www.montecook.com/ Finally, we're holding a chat here in our very own chat room tonight, January 15, at 5 p.m. Pacific. I'll be there to discuss our most recent PDF release, Chaositech, or whatever else people want to talk about, including our recently announced products Beyond Countless Doorways, Children of the Rune, and Mystic Secrets: The Lore of Word and Rune. Hope to see you there! > From what I've read about it so far it sounds like you could do a direct translation from Monte's "Galchutt" to "Outer Being." Not sure though. Well, if people on the list decide to check it out, please let me know what you think. -John ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:04:52 +0100 From: =?us-ascii?Q?Andres_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Thorin Oakenshield <= Tolkien's Hobbit Hi, just for completion's sake, Thorin's name is not a Tolkien crafting (as most of his onomastics, place names and other vast Middle Earth linguistics are). In some of his writings he clearly comments on drawing most of The Hobbit's names from obscure Norse and Anglo-Saxon poetry. IIRC, most of the Thorin and co. names come in fact from Icelandic Eddas. So I guess that having something in Mystara be called Thorin whatever could not be called plagiarism, as the Icelandic sagas are clearly public domain. Another story is whether the author of the Skothar map did know anything about the names in those Middle Ages sources... Have you ever seen those original D&D (the small whitish booklets)? Gygax went as far as using the words "Balrog" and "hobbit", but had to get rid of them due to copyright infringement. Other RPG books have sneaked in obvious plagiarisms thanks to Tolkien's lingua-mania. In Runequest 3rd Edition you have "hobbyts" (with a y it's a rare Anglo-saxon word for "hole dweller") and in Warhammer RPG you have a Baalrukh with a illo which looks like the Moria Balrog, whip and all. Just that Baalrukh is Hebrew for "Lordly Spirit", quite close to the Quenya Valarauko (demon of power), from which Sindarin Balrog derives. Clearly loaning from JRRT, but with his linguistic wit, at least... Andres ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:35:46 +0000 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: The City of Kelvin Brendan Johnson wrote: > > know that Castle Kelvin was built on the ruins of the village of Lavv. Is > it possible the fisherman called their village Lavv? IMO the village of > Lavv was lost so I don't think they would be called Lavv. Someone proposed Halavos, IIRC. Anyway, there isn't a canon answer. -- di nuovo come un tempo sopra l'Italia intera urla il vento e soffia la bufera ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:49:38 +0000 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Thorin Oakenshield <= Tolkien's Hobbit Andres Piquer Otero wrote: > Hi, > just for completion's sake, Thorin's name is not a Tolkien crafting (as most > of his onomastics, place names and other vast Middle Earth linguistics are). > In some of his writings he clearly comments on drawing most of The Hobbit's > names from obscure Norse and Anglo-Saxon poetry. IIRC, most of the Thorin > and co. names come in fact from Icelandic Eddas. Exactly. They're just adapted to English, e.g. Dvalinn -> Dwalin. Dvalinn and Oinn are two dwarves from Volsungasaga, BTW. GP -- di nuovo come un tempo sopra l'Italia intera urla il vento e soffia la bufera ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 15 Jan 2004 to 16 Jan 2004 (#2004-17) ***************************************************************