Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 10 Sep 2004 to 11 Sep 2004 (#2004-191) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 12/09/2004, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 8 messages totalling 710 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Darokinian language (4) 2. Darokin: its population, language and origins 3. K:KOA (was: Darokinian language) (2) 4. 3.5E Radiance Magic Part 3 (finally!) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:26:18 +0000 From: adrian mattias Subject: Re: Darokinian language > From: The Stalker > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Darokinian language > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:03:20 -0700 > I don't agree that Darokin is necessarily the largest trading power in the > region. They are certainly important, but the Minrothad Guilds are also a > powerful mercantile nation, and no empire as large and powerful as Thyatis > could maintain its position for a millennium if they weren't good traders. > Sure, the Thyatians like to conquer, but they need food for the troops and > a healthy economy to afford their wars and conquests, and that can be > sustained only through skillful trading, so there is no question that > Thyatian traders form an important power in the known world. I certainly > wouldn't put them below Darokin or Minrothad. Sure, those nations may have > a better tradition for merchants, but Thyatis can easily outdo them by > sheer numbers. You may be confusing the source of their wealth here. Thyatian wealth is built on conquest not trade. In this respect Thyatis is like Rome, or the Aztecs or the Assyrians. None of whom were good traders. In fact in all cases, merchants were considered the lowest of the low in the social classes. If you wanted to make it up the ladder in these societies you had to be a warrior. Wealth (including food which comes from the amount of land you control) came from war, not trade and this is reflected in the government and makeup of these socieities (i.e. governed by a warrior aristocracy and with slavery to till the land to free up citizens for duty in the military economy). Darokin and Minrothad on the other hand build their wealth from control of trade. In this respect they are like the Phoenicians, the Carthaginians, the English (before the IR), the Dutch, the Venetians etc. In all of these societies it was the merchants that controlled the government not the warriors (and slaves were rarely used in these societies). This explains why Thyatis can coexist with Minrothad. Although that said, no trading nation can ever hope to stand against a military one for too long - see the historical record of what happened to the Phonecians, the Carthaginians and the Venetians. > Just take the population figures from PWA1, for example. Minrothad has a > total population of 135,000, while Darokin has 1,250,000 humans and > various demihumans (which suggests that Darokin is the more powerful > mercantile nation of the two, with Minrothad exploiting the niche of sea > trade that Darokin finds it hard or redundant to address). How great a > percentage of these people will be merchants? Population has nothing to do with how rich or powerful a nation may be or how many merchants it would produce. Otherwise India for example would have three - four times the number of traders (internationally) as the US. > Now look at Thyatis which dwarfs even Darokin with 3,001,000 inhabitants. > Even if we assume that the concentration of traders in Thyatis is less > than half that in Darokin, Thyatis will still have more merchants than > Darokin. > > Now, I don't think Thyatis can keep with up the experience and expertise > of Darokin in this area (especially with the DDC at work), but I do think > Thyatis has more merchants and have access to a much greater market by > virtue of ships and how their empire spreads across the world, which > grants access to many different trading partners and potential goods. _________________________________________________________________ Searching for that dream home? Try http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au for all your property needs. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:35:08 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Darokin: its population, language and origins --- The Stalker skrev: > Huh? When did Alphatia ever control the entire known > world? I know that > Alphatia once controlled pre-empire Thyatis (meaning > the mainland) and has > can control of parts of Ylaruam, but apart from that > there is only > Halzumthram's very brief annexation of later > Glantri, which failed > horribly almost immediately. I guess I was a bit sloppy with facts there. Sorry about any confusion. Still, it was always my impression that the Cold War between Alphatia and Thyatis was affecting the rest of the KW countries and that Alphatia was seen as a threat to the other countries. The Cold War analogy seemed very clear back in the 80s, and this was enhanced when Alphatia fell in the early 90s. > I dare say Thyatis appointed itself the shield > against Alphatia more than > the other nations begged it to be, and I don't think > they made any > allegiance with Thyatis on the matter. After all, > why would they bother? - > Thyatis was clearly going to fight any Alphatian > invasion in any event, > since such an invasion would inevitably become a > threat to Thyatis > immediately, and the other nations could easily > support Thyatis on a case- > by-case basis if the need ever arose. Most struggles > between the empires > have been fought on the Isle of Dawn, in Ylaruam, in > Norwold, or on their > own home soil, so there has been little reason for > the others to get > involved. It may be true that Thyatis appointed itself as the Known World's defender against the Alphatian Threat. Perhaps you are right that Aphatia itself wasn't too interested in dominating the Known World. But as long as the Known World countries belived that Alphatia was a threat, that would have been enough. The Glantrians probably would have helped maintaining this illusion, indirectly helping to increase Thyatian dominance over the Known World. As for Darokin, the country is dependent on military support from its neighbours. The fact that the other KW countries (including Thyatis) depend heavily on trade with Darokin helps guarantee that this aid will be given. (This is in AC1000). Thyatis is probably the main securer in keeping this situation under control. Again, WotI changed all that, but it will help explain the previous dominance of Thyatian cultural influence in the Known World. Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:55:51 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: K:KOA (was: Darokinian language) --- The Stalker wrote: > I don't think so. Not all the characters have become > more experienced > (though a good deal of them have), but they've > certainly become older. At least some of the characters have retained their original ages. Aleena and Lady Arteris, remain in their early 20s, whereas they should now be in their early to mid 30s, which would mean that if your Mystara leans more towards the medievial than modern, they wouldn't be very eligable for marriage anymore. Ofcourse, having money always helps. Still, you'd think two such lovely ladies would have gotten married by then (assuming some degree of medieval mentality). These are the only ages I remember checking. Also, IMO, it would have made sense to promote the nobles, as Stefan promoted himself to King. Overall, KKOA isn't bad. Its just not much new there to someone who already owns Gaz1. In addition to the above fixes I would have liked to see: 1) Inclusion of stuff from B10, perhaps the entire module, but at least descriptions of Dymrak, the Hutaakan Valley etc. 2)More detailed info on the Vyalia, based on DotE. 3)More information on the Alfheim elves, and their culture which may have been taken from Gaz5. > Glantri: Kingdom of > Magic, which I believe was set for AC 1013, and > which indeed had many > oversights (like forgetting the changes to the > Nucleus of the Spheres at > the end of WotI, which was nothing less than > inexcusable!). Actually, I recently discovered that they do have a mention of the changes in WotI, but seem to imply that these were only temporary. Which is a pretty bad cop-out to one of the most interesting consequences of WotI. Håvard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 10:39:00 -0700 From: The Stalker Subject: Re: K:KOA (was: Darokinian language) On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:55:51 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= wrote: > --- The Stalker wrote: >> I don't think so. Not all the characters have become >> more experienced >> (though a good deal of them have), but they've >> certainly become older. > > At least some of the characters have retained their > original ages. Okay, but it's scarcely a large amount. > Aleena and Lady Arteris, remain in > their early 20s, whereas they should now be in their > early to mid 30s, which would mean that if your > Mystara leans more towards the medievial than modern, > they wouldn't be very eligable for marriage anymore. > Ofcourse, having money always helps. Still, you'd > think two such lovely ladies would have gotten married > by then (assuming some degree of medieval mentality). Indeed Aleena Halaran already is married by then. See PWA2 (p.187), which precedes the K:KoA set. > These are the only ages I remember checking. > I certainly don't claim to have checked them all, so there may certainly be more in there. The royal family has certainly become older. Adriana, for example, now has two children with Devon Hyraksos. > Also, IMO, it would have made sense to promote the > nobles, as Stefan promoted himself to King. > Perhaps, but then Karameikos is still a young nation. > Overall, KKOA isn't bad. Its just not much new there > to someone who already owns Gaz1. > I'd agree with that. There are several updates that are interesting (like the School of Magecraft or the remains of fallen Black Eagle barony), but otherwise new information is indeed scarce. I love the illustrations, though. We never saw Specularum/Mirros illustrated before. > In addition to the above fixes I would have liked to > see: > 1) Inclusion of stuff from B10, perhaps the entire > module, but at least descriptions of Dymrak, the > Hutaakan Valley etc. > 2)More detailed info on the Vyalia, based on DotE. I agree with you. The only exception might be the Hutaakan Valley, if it is presumed that it is still unknown to Karameikos in general. Not saying that is likely after the events of B10, though. > 3)More information on the Alfheim elves, and their > culture which may have been taken from Gaz5. > The information should be there, yes, as long as it's pointed out that the elves are pretty reclusive. The Alfheim elves are not going to be very outgoing after losing their homeland, and the Vyalia elves living in Karameikos have always been described as rather reclusive. > >> Glantri: Kingdom of >> Magic, which I believe was set for AC 1013, and >> which indeed had many >> oversights (like forgetting the changes to the >> Nucleus of the Spheres at >> the end of WotI, which was nothing less than >> inexcusable!). > > Actually, I recently discovered that they do have a > mention of the changes in WotI, but seem to imply that > these were only temporary. Which is a pretty bad > cop-out to one of the most interesting consequences of > WotI. > The main reference I can find on p.116 of the The Grimoire, which states that, "At the end of the Wrath of the Immortals, these figures [those studying the Radiance] successfully lessened the danger of the magic drain. Their efforts did not solve the depletion problem entirely, however, for the Radiance is related to all magic in Mystara on levels that even the Immortals do not totally understand". Well, it's true that they haven't solved all the problems, because the Day of Dread takes place every year as a direct consequence to the drain on the Sphere of Energy that has already taken place - that drain is still unreplaced. Now, I don't recall who it was that changed the NoS to drain from the Sphere of Energy when the Radiance was used, but IIRC it was an old one, in which case it would indeed be beyond the Immortals. - The Stalker ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:09:48 -0400 From: Christopher M Cherrington Subject: Re: Darokinian language > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of Aaron Nowack > > I'm no linguistics expert, but does anyone know of any real world > example of this kind of thing happening? I.e., a foreign, at best > distantly related language slowly replacing native languages in a > country, without conquest or colonization? > Hah, I found one, right underneath my own nose. The US is such a country. At the time of the Revolution, 60% of the colonists were German, and spoke German. Now, Germany did not invade the British Colonies, nor did they colonize. The Germans were leaving their many different petty kingdoms and baronies that where not fully organized as a complete empire (almost sounds just like a pre-empire Thyatis). Now the majority of speakers in the colonies spoke German, and English was not 40%, you had French colonists and other nations as well. The Contenetal Congress put the issue to a vote, many wanted French as the official language because of their political ties; and because German was so common, especially in Pennsylvania, it lost by one vote as the official US language. Had the French language not been on the table, us Americans would be speaking German (and we may have sided with Germany in WWI). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:03:39 -0500 From: Aaron Nowack Subject: Re: Darokinian language Christopher M Cherrington wrote: > Hah, I found one, right underneath my own nose. The US is such a country. > At the time of the Revolution, 60% of the colonists were German, and spoke > German. I'm really going to have to ask for the source on the 60% German speakers, because it simply doesn't match anything I've ever read about the time period. Actually, I did some searching off my own. There certainly were many German-speakers in the US, but hardly 60%: "By the middle of the 18th century, German immigrants occupied a central place in American life. Germans accounted for one-third of the population of the American colonies, and were second in number only to the English." (Source: http://memory.loc.gov/learn/features/immig/german3.html ) However, it still has no relevance to the question at hand - namely a people abandoning its native tongue as it s primary language in the _absence_ of conquest or large-scale colonization. In fact, it actually bolsters my point: The US only gained a large German speaking minority due to immigration and colonization (which did not happen between Thyatis and Darokin). However, even if one assumes that such large-scale immigration did occur between Thyatis and Darokin, allowing the comparison, English still remained the primary language of the US and the Germans were assimilated into the larger English-speaking population. > Now, Germany did not invade the British Colonies, nor did they > colonize. The Germans were leaving their many different petty kingdoms and > baronies that where not fully organized as a complete empire (almost sounds > just like a pre-empire Thyatis). However, the movement of pre-existing German-speakers does nothing to the question at hand - finding a people that actually stopped speaking their native language in favor of a foreign one, i nthe absence of conquest or colonization. (I suppose I should add large-scale immigration overwhelming the original populace by sheer numbers, but I figured that was implicit in colonization, and it also didn't happen to Darokin.) > Now the majority of speakers in the > colonies spoke German, and English was not 40%, you had French colonists and > other nations as well. The Contenetal Congress put the issue to a vote, > many wanted French as the official language because of their political ties; > and because German was so common, especially in Pennsylvania, it lost by one > vote as the official US language. Had the French language not been on the > table, us Americans would be speaking German (and we may have sided with > Germany in WWI). The "German almost became official language of the US" thing is a common urban legend, though I've never heard this version with the added French - generally it is stated to simply have failed by one vote. In any case, it's nothing but an urban legend: http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/german.htm -- Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.mimiru.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:06:12 -0400 From: Libramus Subject: 3.5E Radiance Magic Part 3 (finally!) Hey, all! After an enforced absence from the Mystara community created by my move to university and a resulting virus infection and computer reformat (life lesson: NEVER join an open campus wireless network without first installing EVERY computer security update available!), I'm back with Part 3 of Radiance Magic. These are new 8th and 9th level spells designed to improve the power and versatility of the Radiance Mage in 3.5E gaming and make non-Radiance users scream and suffer. =) EXTERMINATE Necromancy Level: RadM 8 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 minute Range: Touch Effect: Creature touched Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (see text) Spell Resistance: Yes (see text) With Exterminate, you send the magical energies of the Radiance into the body of a living creature to eliminate disease and corruption. Exterminate cures all diseases and neutralizes all poisons that the subject is suffering from, with the exception of the Radiance's own rotting disease. The spell also destroys all vermin and parasites within the subject's body. All hit point damage, temporary and permanent ability score damage, and other effects caused by diseases or poisons cured by Exterminate are also healed. Though the cleansing energies created by Exterminate can be helpful, they may also endanger the subject. When this spell is cast, the subject must make a Fortitude save, or be affected by the Radiance's rotting disease. (A successful save doesn't negate the spell's healing effects, however.) Spell resistance can also apply to Exterminate, but a successful spell resistance roll will cancel all effects of the spell. Note: Since the spell's duration is instantaneous, it does not prevent reinfection to diseases or neutralize poisons that the subject is exposed to at a later date. RADIANCE ALCHEMY Transmutation Level: RadM 8 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 hour Range: Personal Target: You Duration: See text Radiance Alchemy allows you to use some of your stored Rads to enhance your ability to craft a magical item. When you cast this spell, you expend one or more Rads; the XP cost of the magical item you are crafting is reduced by 100 XP for each Rad you expend in this way. You can only use this spell once for each magical item you're crafting, and can't reduce the XP cost of a crafted item below 0. This spell can only be used for magical item crafting - you can't use this spell to reduce the XP cost of spells cast directly, for instance. Material Component: A cube of pure lead, at least three inches on each side. SUMMON RADIANCE GOLEM Conjuration (Summoning) Level: RadM 8 Components: V, S, F Casting Time: 1 round Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 levels) Effect: One summoned creature Duration: 1 round/level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No This spell summons up a rare and powerful construct, a Radiance Golem. It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. You can communicate with the Radiance Golem and direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions, but it obeys most commands with a peculiar sense of literacy. If you give it a command that is unclear, garbled or nonsensical, it may not respond, instead obeying the last understandable command it received. Arcane Focus: A translucent crystal with exactly 256 facets. The crystal must be worth at least 1,000 gp. - RADIANCE GOLEM: Medium-Size Construct Hit Dice: 16d10+30 (118 hp) Initiative: +6 (+4 Improved Initiative, +2 Dex) Speed: 30 ft (can't run) AC: 36 (+2 dex, +4 insight, +20 natural), touch 16, flat-footed 34 Base Attack/Grapple: +11/+23 Attack: Slam +26 melee (2d8+10) or energy beam +21 ranged touch Full Attack: 2 slams +26 melee (2d8+10) or energy beam +21 ranged touch Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft Special Attacks: Energy beams Special Qualities: Blindsight 120 feet, combat insight, construct traits, damage reduction 15/adamantine, immunity to magic, low-light vision, tremorsense Saves: Fort +11, Ref +11, Will +9 Abilities: Str 30, Dex 15, Con -, Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 1 Skills: Knowledge (architecture and engineering) +20, Knowledge (mathematics and science) +20, Listen +27, Move Silently +18, Sense Motive +16, Spellcraft +16, Spot +27 Feats: Combat Reflexes, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative Environment: The Nucleus of the Spheres Organization: Solitary or squad (4-8) Challenge Rating: 15 Treasure: See text Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: None Level Adjustment: - The Radiance Golem is an odd sort of construct, a golem made up partly of metal and partly of an oddly smooth and flexible ceramic that is greatly resistant to damage. It takes the form of a man-sized creature, although it lacks any sort of a face and its joints bend in an extraordinarily odd manner. Radiance Golems are 7 feet tall and weigh about 250 pounds. They can speak and understand Common and Elvish, their voices coming through an odd grille set in the center of their heads, but are entirely silent unless ordered to speak by the person who summoned them. Combat: Combat Insight (Ex) - A Radiance Golem has an uncanny ability to track and predict the chaotic interplay present on any battlefield. It receives a +4 insight bonus to AC, melee attacks, and all saves, and a +8 insight bonus to ranged attacks and Listen and Spot checks. (These bonuses have already been included in the above statistics block.) Energy Beams (Su) - Several odd, wandlike protrusions are present on the body of any Radiance Golem. Each of these protrusions can fire a different form of energy as a ranged touch attack: - Laser: Deals 12d6 fire damage. - Maser: Deals 12d6 cold damage. - Taser: Deals 8d6 electricity damage. The target must make a DC 22 Fort save or be held for 1d4+1 rounds. - Ultrasonic: Deals 8d6 sonic damage. The target must make a DC 22 Will save or be panicked for 1d4+1 rounds (if less than 12 HD) or frightened for 1d4+1 rounds (if greater than 12 HD). - Kinetic: Deals 8d6 force damage. The target must make a DC 22 Reflex save or be knocked prone and forced backwards 1d4x10 feet. - Antimatter: Deals 12d6 force damage. If the target is reduced to 0 or fewer hit points, their body is destroyed (as per the Disintegrate spell). If a Radiance Golem is defeated in combat, there is a 10% chance that 1-4 of its energy beam projectors remain undamaged and operational. Characters who realize that the beam projectors are usable and attempt to salvage them can attempt to use them as wands with the Use Magic Device skill. Using a beam projector is a DC 30 skill check; each beam projector has 1d10 charges when salvaged. Immunity to Magic (Ex) - A Radiance Golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and abilities function differently against the creature, as noted below. A magical attack that deals electricity damage can confuse the golem (as a Confusion spell) for 1 round. The golem receives a Will saving throw, against the normal DC of the effect (or DC 15 if no save is normally available). Construction: Unlike most kinds of golems, a Radiance Golem cannot be constructed by any means known to modern magic. Only a very little is known about them, as only powerful Radiance magic can make one available to study for even a short time, but they are believed to be artifacts of an ancient civilization advanced in the tools of both technology and magic. The animating force of a Radiance Golem is as yet unknown, but has been conclusively proven not to be a spirit from any of the Elemental Planes, as is true for common TRgolems. If anything further is known about the origins or natures of the Radiance Golems, it lies within the mind of Rad. TRANSFER RADIANCE Necromancy Level: RadM 8 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 minute Range: Touch Target: Creature touched Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (see text) Spell Resistance: Yes This spell allows you to transfer your store of Rads into the body of another living creature, creating a living battery of accumulated Radiance power for you to use at a later date. Once this spell takes effect, you may reclaim the stored Rads by touching the subject, as a standard action. Reclaiming Rads from a subject of this spell doesn't increase the maximum number of Rads you can store within your own body. Rads that have been transferred to another creature can't be used for spellcasting, by you or anyone else, until you reclaim them - even if the subject of this spell is a Radiance Mage himself. The maximum number of Rads you may store in any single living being is equal to one-third your caster level. You can store Rads in more than one living being at a time, but may only have a number of subjects at any one time equal to your Radiance Mage level. (For example, a Wiz 14/RadM 4 could transfer Rads to up to four other living creatures, storing a maximum of 6 Rads in each.) Storing Rads in one's body via this spell is dangerous. A subject of Transfer Radiance must make a Fortitude save every 24 hours after receiving Rads; the DC is equal to 10 + the caster's relevant ability bonus + twice the number of stored Rads. If the save fails, the subject is immediately afflicted with the Radiance's rotting disease, and all stored Rads are lost. CHANNEL RADIANCE Conjuration (Teleportation) Level: RadM 9 Components: V, S, F Casting Time: 1 round Range: See text Target: See text Duration: 1 round/level Channel Radiance allows you to cast spells through another Radiance Mage's receptacle, though you yourself are not present (or possibly, don't even know where the other receptacle is located). Any spell with a range of touch or greater can originate from the other receptacle instead of from you. The spells affect other targets normally, despite originating from the receptacle. You gain a general sense of the space that the targeted receptacle is in and the creatures that are present (though not enough to discern the identities of anyone or determine who the receptacle belongs to). For each creature present, you have a general sense of whether the receptacle's owner considers the creature to be a friend or foe. Focus: Your Radiance receptacle. If you stop touching your Radiance receptacle, even for a moment, the spell ends. GREATER NEGATE MAGIC Abjuration Level: RadM 9 This spell functions as Negate Magic, except that the maximum caster level on your dispel check is +30. Additionally, this spell automatically counters any spell of 9th level or lower when used as a counterspell. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:58:59 -0400 From: Christopher M Cherrington Subject: Re: Darokinian language > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of Aaron Nowack That will be the last time I depend on an NRA flier for history. The jist of what I was trying to convey, if Thyatians and Doulakki are moving about before their is a Thyatian Empire, are they considered colonists to be recorded down to history? The language they would speak would be partly campatable to Traladaran and Thyatian. What a great trading language, something that could be spoken in Boldavia, Slagovich, Karameikos and most parts of Thyatis. Is the Slag trade tongue of Thyatis, nonother than Daro? It would make sense. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 10 Sep 2004 to 11 Sep 2004 (#2004-191) ****************************************************************