Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 14 Oct 2004 to 15 Oct 2004 (#2004-221) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 16/10/2004, 18:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 4 messages totalling 330 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. What's Mystara all about. 2. Tentative Belcadiz History (3) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:01:41 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: What's Mystara all about. This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---559023410-33463914-1097827301=:24372 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT So very true. One good example of the Mystara feel are the shadowelves. First, they were introduced in the Alfheim Gazetteer as the villain culture - however the possibility of they having a genuine real-life ethical&political viewpoint (as opposed to AD&Dish petrified metaphysical moral positions) was already hinted at. But when we finally got the shadowelves Gazetteer, the picture of the shadowelves was much more richer than we might have thought. And again there we have the common-knowledge histories, the true history, and the Immortal Plan that is disquised in a whole cultural system. One the coolest cultures ever in fantasy RPGs. Ville ------------------------------------------------------------ "But since 'nature' is a word which carries, over a very long period, many of the major variations of human thought - often, in any particular use, only implicit yet with powerful effect on the character of the argument - it is necessary to be especially aware of its difficulty." - Raymond Williams, Keywords ******************************************************* Ville Lähde University of Tampere Department of Mathematics, Statistics and Philosophy phone: (work) 03 215 7573 (home) 040 7776772 email: Ville.V.Lahde@uta.fi http://www.uta.fi/laitokset/mattiet/filosofia/lahde.htm ******************************************************* ---559023410-33463914-1097827301=:24372-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:34:30 -0700 From: DM Subject: Tentative Belcadiz History Hi folks! It's been a long long time since I last posted on the MML, but during these months I haven't been inactive, quite the contrary. And in short time I hope you'll be able to see some of the ideas I've developed and we've discussed over the italian Mystara Boards. Now I want to begin by giving you my theory on the Belcadiz history, something I've already posted on the MMB, but I want to forward it to you and hear what you think of it. Bear in mind I have taken into account ALL of the KNOWN FACTS about the Belcadiz to create this history. Okay, roughly speaking this is the chronology: 1700 BC: Some elves trigger a big Blackmoor device on the border between Glantri and the Broken Lands, creating a nuclear catastrophe. Many elves flee beneath the earth, but the Belcadiz clan manages to use a special device they had been experimenting in the last years: a magical Gate (think about a Stargate). The whole clan (except those elves infected by the nuclear disease, who are left behind on pourpose) passes through it and emerges in an unknown land, destroying the Gate after the passage to prevent a future invasion by unknown forces. 1699 BC: The Belcadiz elves discover they are now living on a big island whose whereaboouts are unknown. They rename it ALVAR. After exploring Alvar, they discover there are no other sentient races living there, and proceed to settle it, trying to discover their whereabouts (for all they know they could be on another plane, since their experiment was targeted on exploring the Multiverse through the use of magical gates). 1650 BC: the Belcadiz elves have tried to use their magics to scry this world and have indeed discovered that they are still on Mystara, although their exact location is uncertain (bear in mind they have no clerics among them). They try to use mundane means of exploration, and go seafaring. 1600 BC: After some major disasters at sea (due to the bad weather, acquatic monsters, hostile acquatic races and unskilled shipwrights), the Belcadiz conclude they are not a seaborne race, so they instead spend the following centuries exploring the island and adapting to it, building new cities and growing their already dwindling numbers (the survivors of the Glantrian Catastrophe were only 2000 Belcadiz elves). 1600 BC - 500 AC : During this period the Belcadiz of Alvar thrive on the island (whose dimensions are roughly similar to Trader's Isle and it's located between Tanegioth and Ochalea), becoming a very unique culture of bold, touchy, fearsome elves. They love to make mock wars and duels among themselves, have a superior craftmanship for swords and develop a unique form of sorcery called witchcraft. In BC 990 a large group of NIthian explorers passes nearby but doesn't notice Alvar, which is then left alone, especially after the Nithian colonies on Davania rebel and throw their masters out (or maybe the Belcadiz are indeed invaded by NIthians but are able to drive them away of Alvar...). 500 AC: Following the conquest of the Tel Akbir Peninsula and the following wars in Ylaruam, many Kerendan noblemen are put in front of a difficult choice: to go warring against the Alphatian in the ylari desert or to try to settle into new lands in the southern continent or in the western isles (Ierendi). Many of them take the route southwards and finally find Tanegioth, Alvar and the Hinterlands, relocating there with their belongings and their slaves (mostly alasyian of Tel Akbir). Some colonies fall after just one decade (Tanegioth and Davania), while on Alvar the newly come Kerendan are able to come to terms with the elves. 510 AC: Fearing an all-out invasion, the Belcadiz (using the charming powers of their witches) are able to persuade the Kerendan leaders to beguile the thyatian government. After the total collapse of the colonies in Davania and Tanegioth, the Kerendan nobles of Alvar tell stories of diseases, cannibal savages and a bleak land to discourage new settlers and throw off Thyatis' attention on their dominion. They are then encouraged to resist and fend off for themleves, levying taxes yearly. The Kerendans and elves cooperate to remain independent, and gradually the Kerendans mix with their alasyians slaves, changing their skin tone and language in the following 4 centuries, thus becoming the Ispans. Moreover, they share their love for bullfights and cavalry with the elves, as well as their history, and the elves discover that there are whole new continents north and south of Alvar to explore. AC 510 - 690 : After 2 centuries of intermixing, the flamenco elves and the Ispan culture have been created. Ispans are adventuresome folks who venture often by sea and take with them the Belcadiz elves, who in turn discover new lands and come back to report. During one of these explorations in the Broken Lands, the elves discover remains of their old sites and their magical Gate, and understand that their ancestral home is now inhabited by pale humans with tremendous magical knowledge called Flaems. AC 700 : the isle of Alvar shows worring signs of instability. Earthquakes shake its mountains and lowlands, water becomes incredibly hot and fishes die around its coasts. The Belcadiz and Ispan scholars determine that the ancient volcano has indeed come to life once again, and many families are worried. AC 705 : It is now clear that Alvar will experience a serious earthquake or probably something more terrible in the near future. Many ispan settlers abandon their estates and move to nearby thyatian colonies or return to the mainland, hoping to find a place to live (and some are forced to settle on the ylari border). Belcadiz try to use once again magic to have an escape route just in case the situation grows worse, refusing to abandon the isle where they've been living in the last 2000 years. Some elves are dispatched in the Broken Lands where they must try to rebuild the old Gate, while other mages in Alvar build a similar one. AC 720 : Disaster strucks when the isle of Alvar starts sinking into the sea after a terrible earthquake awakens the ancestral volcano. The few Ispans remaining on the isle plea the elves for help, and they both leave the island using the Magical Gate, coming once again in Brun through the one in the northern Broken Lands. Here, (as GAZ3 says) braving the dangers of the Broken Lands, southern elves (around 15,000) find a trail back to Glantri and settle in modern New Alvar (Nueva Alvar) along with their human followers (no more than 1,000). AC 730 : Erewan elves migrate to Glantri after they hear other elves are living there. They take with them a branch of the Erendyl's Tree of Life. The Belcadiz welcome their lost brethren, who in turn share with them the secrets of the Tree of Life and Ilsundal's teachings, giving them a small seedling of the tree once their own is fully grown. In the following years however, it becomes clear that the Belcadiz and Erewans are different as light and darkness, and they eventually split, even though the Belcadiz retain the Tree of Life the Erewans gave them. They don't worship Ilsundal, but take care of the tree just because it may be a useful artifact. AC 900 : The displaced Ispans, in search of a new home after the thyatian colonies in Ylaruam have been destroyed by Al-Kalim, accept to sail westwards and settle west of the Gulf of Hule, in the new world. Here they create the Barony of Narvaez under the leadership of the Narvaez family. AC 910 : The obsession of the Narvaez family with the cult of Ixion and their persecution of the witchcraft leads many Ispans to revolt and causes other baronies to be founded by secessionists. Thyatis is too far to intervene and Narvaez must cope with insurrections the best it can. During the following years new Kerendan, dwarvish and ylari settlers come to the area of the Savage Coast and join the Ispans, finally creating the Savage Baronies. PS: the Belcadiz dialect is basically old elven, mixed with SOME characteristic Ispan words, but it's NOT SPANISH ;) Now, can it work? DM _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:14:11 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Tentative Belcadiz History DM ha scritto: > PS: the Belcadiz dialect is basically old elven, mixed > with SOME characteristic Ispan words, but it's NOT > SPANISH ;) > > Now, can it work? Nope. As we discussed over and over in the Italian MB, there's no way the Belcadiz language can be anything different from Spanish (and therefore Espa), if the setting is to maintain some internal coherence from the linguistic (and cultural) point of view. If this is not a priority for you, then you have no need at all to keep ``some characteristic Ispan words'', and you therefore have no need to create a complex history to explain the dealings of the Belcadiz with the ancestors of the Espa. OTOH, if you want linguistic coherence, you may not go with any other solution than having Belcadiz as a dialect of Ispan, and therefore a Thyatian-descended language (with some Ylari influence, etc.). Moreover, it is the Belcadiz culture which is mostly derived from the Ispan and not the other way round -- even though elves are longer lived etc., this is not something new, since several Savage Coast nations feature the same effect in a much shorter time (think Eusdria or Bellayne, or even the Baronies, with the notable exception of Torreon). In this case, you basically need to have the Belcadiz and Ispan people coexist for a long time somewhere in the oversea territories of the Empire of Thyatis (since the Ispan are Thyatians, there's no reason to have them elsewhere). This long time must be between the flight of the Belcadiz elves from Glantri in 1700 BC and the return in 730 AC (circa), More specifically, the Thyatian nation must be established as such, and therefore the range is IMO restricted to 500 BC to 730 AC. The specific position of the Ispan/Belcadiz ``homeland'' can be anywhere, more or less, but some specific locations that have been proposed include the southwestern coast of the Isle of Dawn, the Eastern Thanegioth Archipelago, and Dythestenia. It is even possible that the two people moved from one to another of this places, as the Ispan are said to be Kerendans, but struck with some wanderlust. The first journey of the Belcadiz is probably fully underground -- like the Gentle Folk, only longer. The return trip is, on the other hand, performed by simple travel or even magic -- given the limited population, I guess that a single name level elf with the Teleport spell might have moved the entire nation in a century, almost anywhere in Mystara. Bye, GP ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:52:10 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Tentative Belcadiz History I briefly went into the differences of the Belcadiz in my Elfin Timeline... So the Belcadeil being descendants of the Glantrian elves and interbred with the Meditor live closer to the Doulakki and befriend them. Later on when Thyatians arrive, they befriend the Kerrendians that get influenced by the Alasani culture that develops into the Espa. This makes the Belcadiz language different than a dialect of Espa, as it has retained some grammar from the Doulakki. They don’t get a ToL, as they split from Ilsundal many years ago and still don’t accept him now that he is an immortal, and the Meditor faction abandon Calitha as they blame her for the plague “Is Starbrow not stronger than a mortal elf that curses us?” Having no patron, they develop into godless wizards and liars (as the Orc Wars describes Glantrian Mages). This gives the Belcadiz the Espan culture, but does explain that Belcadiz language is different than Espa. Espa developed in the last 100 years, Belcadiz has been developed separetly for several hundred. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 14 Oct 2004 to 15 Oct 2004 (#2004-221) ****************************************************************