Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Nov 2004 to 2 Nov 2004 (#2004-238) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 03/11/2004, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 11 messages totalling 444 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Rakastas, Ochalea & Myoshima (...and Makai!) (5) 2. Egg of Coot 3. Blackmoor d20 (2) 4. Of Amber and Red Steel (3) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 01:01:30 -0800 From: Dave Keyser Subject: Re: Rakastas, Ochalea & Myoshima (...and Makai!) On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:12:24 +0100, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > Andrew Theisen ha scritto: > > > > However, since Castle Amber does not take place on > > Mystara, for the most part (save for a brief portion > > of the opening 'setup' paragraphs), the point can > > still be made, as you say, that X2 is hardly strong > > evidence for their inclusion in the Known World. > > Uhm, yes, the Castle is somewhere in the Mists, but originally it (and > its inhabitants) came from Glantri. Whether the Lupins and Rakasta were > in the castle since the beginning or not, they're still bound have come > from Glantri at some point. > > GP I've got the module in front of me. Page 5 - 12 rakasta "with the permission of the Amber family, have turned the study into a lair" Page 7- Richard d'Amberville has the shape of a human and the head of a lion. He is the leader of the 12 rakasta. Page 9 - Two lupins riding dire wolves, two rakasta riding sabertooth tigers, follow Andre-David d'Amberville, who has the head of a black goat and is covered with black shaggy hair and has goat hooves. Page 15 - Eight lupins, who follow Claude d'Amberville, who has the body of a human, and the head of a large collie dog(page 13). In every case, lupins and rakastas are not independent, but follow a d'Amberville. Each of those d'Ambervilles has been polymorphed into a man-beast form. Claude and Richard are practically a lupin and rakasta respectively. Plus, Mark of Amber states retroactively that all the lupins and rakastas were polymorphed humans. It isn't hard to see how the writer came to that conclusion. If you want the lupins and rakastas to be in Glantri, that's fine. But the X2 evidence is ambiguous enough that other people can come to a different conclusion, which is just as reasonable. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:07:44 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Egg of Coot This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---559023410-351212254-1099386464=:16818 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hullo, I was just perusing through the stuff in the Vaults on the Immortals. Has anyone written anything substantial about the Egg of Coot? I mean, who/what was it/she/he/they? For those who don't know, the Egg is a mysterious being who appears in the old Blackmoor modules. Ville "All things scabbed and ulcerous, All pox both great and small, Putrid, foul and gangrenous, The Lord God made them all." - Eric Idle ******************************************************* Ville Lähde University of Tampere Department of Mathematics, Statistics and Philosophy 33014 Tampere, Finland phone: (work) 03 215 7573 (home) 040 7776772 email: Ville.V.Lahde@uta.fi http://www.uta.fi/laitokset/mattiet/filosofia/lahde.htm ******************************************************* ---559023410-351212254-1099386464=:16818-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:33:13 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Rakastas, Ochalea & Myoshima (...and Makai!) Dave Keyser wrote: > > In every case, lupins and rakastas are not independent, but follow a > d'Amberville. Each of those d'Ambervilles has been polymorphed into a > man-beast form. Claude and Richard are practically a lupin and rakasta > respectively. Claude and Richard are humans with dog or lion heads, not Rakasta or Lupins. > Plus, Mark of Amber states retroactively that all the lupins and > rakastas were polymorphed humans. Yes, but the DM articles retroactively change that as well, by stating that several Lupin clans and one of the Rakasta subraces live in Glantri. I thought the point was that some people may not like retroactive changes. Of course, in the end everyone is entitled to his own version of the setting, so I'm not coming there to tell you how your Mystara should be, simply I feel pretty justified if in my posts consider Lupins as common in Glantri, etc. Bye, GP -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:43:22 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Blackmoor d20 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "la Volpe" > >> Just out of curiosity, apart from the obvious creation >> of the Blackmoor web page on Haavard's part, what did >> you contribute to this product? Much like Jacob, I provided a list of Blackmoor references to Dustin, and IIRC I suggested to him which sources were more complete in terms of content. I have to say it was a pleasant shock to see my name in print - not that I ever doubted Dustin, but it's one thing to be told something will happen, and quite another to see it for oneself. If you're out there, Dustin, the book is wonderful! Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:02:15 -0500 From: Donald Eric Kesler Subject: Re: Rakastas, Ochalea & Myoshima (...and Makai!) Hello, While I do agree that Glantri has its share of Rakastas and Lupins, I also agree that you really can't use X2 to argue your point. We know that other creatures like the Player Characters and the Brain Collector were drawn into the Mists. It is entirely possible that this is how the Rakastas and the Lupins arrived in Castle Amber. Regards and Best Wishes, Donald Eric Kesler http://www.geocities.com/heroclixleagueofathens/ > From: Giampaolo Agosta > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Rakastas, Ochalea & Myoshima (...and Makai!) > Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:12:24 +0100 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Received: from mc8-f32.hotmail.com ([65.54.253.168]) by mc8-s18.hotmail.com > with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:24:37 -0800 > Received: from oracle.wizards.com ([209.221.142.150]) by > mc8-f32.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 > 09:24:36 -0800 > Received: from lotus (10.12.8.13) by oracle.wizards.com (LSMTP for Windows > NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0138E5DA@oracle.wizards.com>; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 > 9:23:26 -0800 > Received: from ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM by ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM (LISTSERV-TCP/IP > release 1.8d) with spool id 40261353 for > MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:11:46 -0800 > Received: from smtp3.libero.it (193.70.192.127) by oracle.wizards.com > (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id > <0.0138E5BB@oracle.wizards.com>; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 9:11:45 -0800 > Received: from localhost (172.16.1.79) by smtp3.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id > 4178F14A002251D5 for MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM; Mon, 1 Nov > 2004 18:11:43 +0100 > Received: from katamail.com (151.31.37.104) by smtp2.libero.it > (7.0.027-DD01) id 40CB2A08058E6DCA for > MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 18:12:09 +0100 > X-Message-Info: LGjzam7y+Lv696fzx5p221b79WBLMxN4RaNZK+U7agc= > User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; it-IT; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040115 > X-Accept-Language: it, en, en-us > References: <20041101035551.85853.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> > X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at libero.it serv1 > Message-ID: <41867C88.8080408@katamail.com> > In-Reply-To: <20041101035551.85853.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> > Return-Path: owner-mystara-l@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Nov 2004 17:24:37.0412 (UTC) > FILETIME=[A995D640:01C4C037] > > Andrew Theisen ha scritto: >> >> However, since Castle Amber does not take place on >> Mystara, for the most part (save for a brief portion >> of the opening 'setup' paragraphs), the point can >> still be made, as you say, that X2 is hardly strong >> evidence for their inclusion in the Known World. > > Uhm, yes, the Castle is somewhere in the Mists, but originally it (and > its inhabitants) came from Glantri. Whether the Lupins and Rakasta were > in the castle since the beginning or not, they're still bound have come > from Glantri at some point. > > GP > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:20:58 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Of Amber and Red Steel The posts bring up an interesting point about the Rakastas and Lupins that were polymorphed humans in Castle Amber. Do Lupins of the SC really speak French? These folk got mixed somehow by the Mists of Amber and the curse of the SC. Other explanations could be that Castle Amber originally settled in the SC region and Etienne moved it later to a magical hot spot he discovered in Glantri. Who knows for how long Castle Amber was in stasis, they could have been influencing the Lupin and Rakasta of the SC for hundreds of years in some type of dream-works stasis. The polymorphed humans within Castle Amber, not having any way to escape and visit real Lupins and Rakasta, only mimicked their dreams of cat/goat/dog headed people to their unfortunate victims of the polymorph spell; thus explaining why only certain people were only lion headed or collie headed, and leaving one to be goat headed and with hooves. Somehow the gate of Lattere transferred dreams first. These dreams were picked up by the Lupin and Rakasta of the SC, so possibly we may find the original Gate near their territories. Why don’t we have any Scotts on the SC? McGregor is blamed by Etienne for destroying his gate. Quite possibly he did this by destroying his dream bound victims, erasing his transfer to Mystara and destroying the transfer of more French and English. So, where are these English transfers? Or when McGregor destroyed the gate, all his dream carriers changed from Scotts to English. Thus somewhere in the Mists around the SC are a bunch of trapped English still influencing the Bellayne in their dreams. Thoughts anyone? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:05:24 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Of Amber and Red Steel Chris Cherrington wrote: > > The posts bring up an interesting point about the Rakastas and > Lupins that were polymorphed humans in Castle Amber. Do Lupins of > the SC really speak French? According to the online SC book, their language is related to French. > Who knows for how long Castle Amber was in stasis, they > could have been influencing the Lupin and Rakasta of the SC for > hundreds of years in some type of dream-works stasis. Not much, according to the GAZ timeline, though there might have been some time-paradox or temporal stasis if you want to widen the interval. Note that GAZ3 rewrites the Ambreville family history to some extent -- Etienne can't be the 7th prince unless all others were *really* short lived! -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:21:59 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Of Amber and Red Steel We may even have a bunch of Spaniards that crossed over. The Ispans were never from Thyatis, they made that up. The Belcadiz in Glantri were only elves that caught their dreams from the crossover. Then the Traladaran picked up dreams from the Slavs... ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 15:18:14 -0500 From: Dustin Clingman Subject: Re: Blackmoor d20 I am out here and you are very much welcome! That list was very critical in a number of ways. We might not have been able to complete the book and get it to market without it. Glad you like the book! The first module is going to be in stores at the end of this month! Dustin -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of Geoff Gander Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 8:43 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor d20 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "la Volpe" > >> Just out of curiosity, apart from the obvious creation >> of the Blackmoor web page on Haavard's part, what did >> you contribute to this product? Much like Jacob, I provided a list of Blackmoor references to Dustin, and IIRC I suggested to him which sources were more complete in terms of content. I have to say it was a pleasant shock to see my name in print - not that I ever doubted Dustin, but it's one thing to be told something will happen, and quite another to see it for oneself. If you're out there, Dustin, the book is wonderful! Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:52:33 -0800 From: Dave Keyser Subject: Re: Rakastas, Ochalea & Myoshima (...and Makai!) > > Yes, but the DM articles retroactively change that as well, by stating that several Lupin clans and one of the Rakasta subraces live in Glantri. > > I thought the point was that some people may not like retroactive changes. > > Of course, in the end everyone is entitled to his own version of the setting, so I'm not coming there to tell you how your Mystara should be, simply I feel pretty justified if in my posts consider Lupins as common in Glantri, etc. > I am totally with you on lupins in Glantri. The two breeds in Glantri, the mountaineer, and the hounds of Klantyre, have both been in my campaign. Plus there are some mongrels scattered in Glantri City, Averoigne, and elsewhere. But that was because of Dragon #237 and PC4(Lycanthropes), rather than X2. I didn't have rakasta because I didn't see any assigned specifically to Known World countries back in Dragon #247. Of course, I could have missed something, was a rakasta sub-race assigned to Glantri? I will have to check. But don't take this disagreement as my view of what should be "official", "correct", "canonical", or anything else. If X2 is good enough for you, than it is good enough for me if I were to play in your campaign. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:35:17 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Rakastas, Ochalea & Myoshima (...and Makai!) Dave Keyser wrote: > > But that was because of Dragon #237 and PC4(Lycanthropes), rather than > X2. I didn't have rakasta because I didn't see any assigned > specifically to Known World countries back in Dragon #247. Of course, > I could have missed something, was a rakasta sub-race assigned to > Glantri? I will have to check. Only a few Mountain Rakasta in the Khurish Massif, IIRC. > But don't take this disagreement as my view of what should be > "official", "correct", "canonical", or anything else. If X2 is good > enough for you, than it is good enough for me if I were to play in > your campaign. Of course. I *do* use the Dragon articles. I was just pointing out that Rakasta and Lupins did not come from nowhere -- they have a long history in Mystara as they already existed in X modules (the Rakasta appear in X1 as well, and both races are of course featured in the Savage Coast module). That's especially evident for the Rakasta (whose presence in the KW is limited to that small group in the Khurish), while the Lupins were later added in larger numbers to several areas of the Known World (especially Thyatis and Glantri, but also Ylaruam and the Northern Reaches). Bye, -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Nov 2004 to 2 Nov 2004 (#2004-238) **************************************************************