Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 12 Nov 2004 to 13 Nov 2004 (#2004-247) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 14/11/2004, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 3 messages totalling 172 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Magical Evolution (3) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:53:32 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Magical Evolution This is a pretty interesting topic. Most of Blackmoor's magical lore was probably lost in the GRoF. However, not all may have been lost, as magic was probably vital for the survival of those living in the ruins of that civilization. Taymora and Nithia also developed powerful magical knowledge which again mostly was lost, though may have survived in some form or other among the neighbouring realms such as the Thothians, the Traldar (and Milennians) etc. Todays magic is probably heavily influenced by Alphatian lore, be that knowledge of the Flaems or the proper Alphatians, as Glantri and Alphatia are (or were) the two main magical centers in the world. Glantrian magic may also quite likely have been influenced by the arrivals from LaTerre, which did posess magical abilities. Håvard --- Chris Cherrington skrev: > All this going back in time has given me some > thought on another aspect of old history. What were > spells like from ancient times till now? If > Blackmoors had no spell books, when did this evolve? > Who first scribed our modern spells down in text? > Is this an Alphatian or elven invention? Nithians > had their obelisks, Northland Priests have their > Runes, could these two cultures given rise to magic > user imitators for the Secret Craft? Was Magic > Missile invented recently, or was it a second or > third level spell in 400AC? Here is a thought, the > Shadow Elf shamans use crystals, much like > Blackmoorians, so would this mean that Alphatians > were the first to use spell books? Are some spells > more specific to cultures than others? Can we > detail the green magic missile has a line of descent > from Thyatian mages as compared to the sparkly blue > from Minrothad Pirates? > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 06:45:52 -0500 From: Donald Eric Kesler Subject: Re: Magical Evolution Hello, I've always thought that spell development should have evolved over time in a manner not unlike the development of the tools of war. Consider the following. Better armor was developed over time so in turn weaponsmiths developed the mace in order to harm individuals clad in plate. Likewise, someone developed the Magic Missile and in response someone else created the Shield spell to thwart it. Regards and Best Wishes, Donald Eric Kesler > All this going back in time has given me some thought on another aspect of > old history. What were spells like from ancient times till now? If > Blackmoors had no spell books, when did this evolve? Who first scribed our > modern spells down in text? Is this an Alphatian or elven invention? > Nithians had their obelisks, Northland Priests have their Runes, could > these two cultures given rise to magic user imitators for the Secret Craft? > Was Magic Missile invented recently, or was it a second or third level > spell in 400AC? Here is a thought, the Shadow Elf shamans use crystals, > much like Blackmoorians, so would this mean that Alphatians were the first > to use spell books? Are some spells more specific to cultures than others? > Can we detail the green magic missile has a line of descent from Thyatian > mages as compared to the sparkly blue from Minrothad Pirates? > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 21:27:34 +0100 From: Morten Greis Subject: Re: Magical Evolution Citat Chris Cherrington > Subject: Magical Evolution > > All this going back in time has given me some thought on another aspect > of old history. What were spells like from ancient times till now? If > Blackmoors had no spell books, when did this evolve? Who first scribed > our modern spells down in text? Is this an Alphatian or elven > invention? Nithians had their obelisks, Northland Priests have their > Runes, could these two cultures given rise to magic user imitators for > the Secret Craft? Was Magic Missile invented recently, or was it a > second or third level spell in 400AC? Here is a thought, the Shadow Elf > shamans use crystals, much like Blackmoorians, so would this mean that > Alphatians were the first to use spell books? Are some spells more > specific to cultures than others? Can we detail the green magic missile > has a line of descent from Thyatian mages as compared to the sparkly > blue from Minrothad Pirates? > Interesting ideas. But what about a somewhat more complex history of the development of magic. In this manner the Nithians skill with magic and the elves creation of Alfheim better fits into the picture. First and foremost, if there have been a development in magic - then it must somehow be reflected in the Hollow World, which as I see it could be immensely fun. Some cultures would have 'primitive' magic, others would have advanced or sophisticated magic. Perhaps some cultures would even possess alternate ways of doing magic, ways that have died out in the Outer would. Second, IIRC then the Nithians in HW have perhaps not a very advanced system (but perhaps it ought to be) of magic, but it is prevalent in the daily live in ways that are hardly matched in any OW culture. One way to handle this (and the creation of Canolbarth) is to assume, that magic was very advanced (in certain cultures) at the height of the Nithians empire and that this kind of magic was lost along with the memory of the Nithians (perhaps Knowledge of Nithian Science was central to this kind of magic and with the forgetting of the Nithians, this kind of magic simply became impossible - much to the frustration of modern wizards, who simply can't understand how the magic of the Ancients worked and why it doesn't know, perhaps therefore much magic had do to created again). Much in the same manner the elves lost their ability to do the powerful weathermagic. Thirdly, does this mean there is a language that is favored, when doing magic? Does the root of all magic used in spellbooks contain Alphatian, Elven or Blackmmorian words? Fourth - I see a great potential in working out 'generations' of magic. Different levels of magic for different eras - periods that favor crystals, spellbooks, shamanistic styles, leylines and obelisks, runes, mathematical equations done on computers etc. for now, Morten Greis ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 12 Nov 2004 to 13 Nov 2004 (#2004-247) ****************************************************************