Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Dec 2004 to 3 Dec 2004 (#2004-259) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 04/12/2004, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 4 messages totalling 525 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. time in the HW 2. Antalian Cult (2) 3. Help with War Machine ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 01:21:12 -0800 From: Herve Musseau Subject: time in the HW I think that the difficulty of keeping track of time in the HW should be restricted to PCs from the surface world: they should be confused by the perpetual daylight, and not be sure how much time has passed exactly between event A and event B ("You've slept a few times since then, but with the red sun always up you don't know how many days have passed. Bafin, from his childhood in the caverns of Rockhome, guesses four or five days, but it has been a long time since he spent time without a sun to indicate the passage of time, and back then the adult dwarves had devices to keep track of time while underground." The native HWers should not have such problems, as they are used to this timelessness and have developed their own methods of tracking time. In a HW party, most if not all PCs should be able to keep correct track of sleeps (days). In addition, one or more PCs could be quite capable of keeping perfect track of time; eg an Azcan or Oltec PC may be able, by watching the movement of the floating continents (their cultures are adept at astronomy and have built calendar systems and time-tracking techniques out of it), to tell precisely what sleep of the circle it is, what hour it is, and maybe also other things like the latitude and longitude. Besides, the DM could roleplay this by explaining to the player the movement of the floating continents, and hereby drive an interest that could lead the party to try and explore them. Other cultures might have other methods, which might likewise be used to both reinforce cultural traits, and as adventure hooks. Gentle Folk may "listen to nature", Kogolor may have various devices that keep track of time, etc. However, also remember that it is a feature of the HW to have this timelessness of things, consistent with the unchanging nature of the setting, and the pasasge of time could/should be of lesser importance to HWers than it is to outer worlders. The fact that cultures, weather, and time are left hanging, unchanging, is a feature of the setting that gives it its flavor. ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 02:18:42 -0800 From: DM Subject: Antalian Cult Hi everybody! I'm posting on the MML the same issue that I've raised over the Mystara Boards (both English and Italian ones). Recently I've been doing a lot of research into the old Norse mythology in order to elaborate the info presented in GAZ7 and integrate the real world mythology as much as possible with Mystaran cosmology. I have tried to stuck with RW legends as much as I could, because that was always the intention of the author presenting the Northern Reaches, even if there are many constrasting versions of the same legends in Norse mythoi (the main references were Snorri's Edda, Older and Younger Edda, Ynglynga Saga and some other fragments). That said, I've created a cosmology that the so called Antalian Cult worships, and which has been transmitted to the faithful ones directly by divine inspiration coming from Odin and Hel (who acted together to form this basis). In this cosmology, Odin has tried to recreated the same Norse pantheon of the RW (IMO prolly because he and Hel came from a similar situation before arriving in Mystaraverse) and as such he has invited other immortals to take up the roles of the Aesirs and Vanirs. I am now stuck with picking the right Mystaran immortals to fulfill certain roles among the Aesir (male deities under Odin's rule) and Asynie (female deities under Odin's rule), so I need your help here. Consider that by default the Aesir are ALL Odin's sons (with one considerable exception: Forseti, who's Balder's and Nanna's child, and he's considered Full Aesir because they are both Odin's children), while Asynie are all Odin's daughters AND the official wives of one of the Aesirs (Sif is Thor's wife, Sigyn is Loki's wife and Idunn is Bragi's wife). This is the situation so far: Aesir (12): Odin (creation, wisdom, balance, sky, magic) = himself Thor (warriors, battle, honor, good) = himself Loki (mischief, deceit, changement) = himself Heimdall (guardian god, defense, sacrifice) = himself Forseti (justice) = himself Bragi (poetry, eloquence, skald) = Guidarezzo (see old Immortal & IM1) Hermod (traveler god, messenger and brave) = Sinbad Tyr (war, justice, honor) = ? Balder (light, purity, good, joy) = ? Hod (winter, night, blind god) = ? Vidar (strength, loyalty, vengeance) = ? ?? = ?? Asinye (12) Frigg (fertility, hearth, protection) = Terra Sjofn (love and faithfulness) = Valerias Lofn (passion, unfaithful love) = Valerias Var (oaths, loyalty, truth) = Tarastia Vor (justice, all knowing) = Tarastia Idunn (beauty, eternal life, spring) = Thalia (see old Immortal); later Lornasen Saga (poetry, legends, history) = ? Snotra (wisdom, knowledge, humbleness) = ? Eir (medicine, healing, herbs) = ? Sigyn (compassion, faithfulness, sacrifice) = ? Nanna (family, love, happiness) = ? Sif (childbirth, fertility, will) = ? The main problem with those uncertain is that I need to find some immortals which should have been immortal BEFORE BC 1700 (when the Antalian ancestors of modern Heldanners + Northmen were transported into the HW and the Antalian Cult created), so to be incorporated into Odin's cosmology. Also, I am at a loss at finding out who's the twelfth male Aesir!! I have done my researches and certainly it cannot be Ull (or Ullr, god of snow, archery, hunting and duels), because he is not the son of a male Aesir and is reportedly listed under the Vanirs (and I agree with this). Also, I cannot list Vali among the 12, because he's technically a LATER addition: Odin sires Vali just for the pourpose of killing Hod (the blind god of winter), who had previously been tricked by Loki into killing his twin Balder. Vali is thus a late Aesir, and I don't think that the events of Balder's death and Hod's death have yet occurred in Mystaran mythical history. So who is the twelfth Aesir? I am inclined to think of Meile, Thor's unknown brother... but it doesn't sound right (since there's no mention of him in Thor's official background). Also I cannot count in Modi and Magni (Thor's two sons; he also had a daughter, Thrudh) because technically there must be only 12 Aesir, and if I count both I've got 13! The reason for having 12 Aesir and Asynie is that by this number the northmen divided the hours of the day (12 for Aesir + 12 for Asynie = 24 hours) and the months of the year (12 for each male Aesir)! Now I've got 2 ideas to solve this matter right now, but I'm definitely open to other suggestions. I could say Balder is Ixion and Nanna (his wife) another aspect of Valerias, this would not be a great problem. I could then say that Hod (god of darkness and winter) is none others than Thanatos, who was offered a role too by Odin in order not to displease anyone. It could work if you think that Hod in some Norse legends is not simply a "powerless blind god who's tricked by Loki into killing his twin Balder", but he's the sibling of Balder, envious of his brother's appeal to the other gods and struggling to get for himself the love of Nanna. For this reason he sides with the giants to lead an invasion in Asgard but he's stopped by Balder and Heimdall (and blinded). Later he conspires with Loki and kills Balder. If this is accepted, the other Aesir & Asinye could just be the individual deities who are known as The Korrigans (there are 9 of them), elven immortals who ascended in 2900 BC and were worshipped in that region. So we'd have: Balder = Ixion Hod = Thanatos Tyr = Korrigan 1 Vidar = Korrigan 2 unknown deity (12th Aesir)?? = Korrigan 3 Nanna = Valerias Saga = Korrigan 4 Snotra = Korrigan 5 Eir = Korrigan 6 Sigyn = Korrigan 7 Sif = Korrigan 8 Another possibility is that all of the ??? immortals are Korrigans: Tyr = another aspect of Thor Vidar = Korrigan 1 Balder = Korrigan 2 Hod = Korrigan 3 ?? = ?? Nanna = Korrigan 4 Saga = Korrigan 5 Snotra = Korrigan 6 Eir = Korrigan 7 Sigyn = Korrigan 8 Sif = Korrigan 9 I am also trying to understand if there can be somebody else to take the role of Sigyn, wife of Loki.. would you think of a specific immortal for that role (remember that she's a very loyal and compassionate wife, the only one who could stand Loki's malicious and devious character and be by his side even during the most difficult moments). Any help will be greatly appreciated ;) A desperate DM __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 13:52:59 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Antalian Cult I finally had some time to think about this, you can read my response here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4969009&posted=1#post4969009 Håvard --- DM skrev: > Hi everybody! > > I'm posting on the MML the same issue that I've > raised > over the Mystara Boards (both English and Italian > ones). > > Recently I've been doing a lot of research into the > old Norse mythology in order to elaborate the info > presented in GAZ7 and integrate the real world > mythology as much as possible with Mystaran > cosmology. > I have tried to stuck with RW legends as much as I > could, because that was always the intention of the > author presenting the Northern Reaches, even if > there > are many constrasting versions of the same legends > in > Norse mythoi (the main references were Snorri's > Edda, > Older and Younger Edda, Ynglynga Saga and some other > fragments). > > That said, I've created a cosmology that the so > called > Antalian Cult worships, and which has been > transmitted > to the faithful ones directly by divine inspiration > coming from Odin and Hel (who acted together to form > this basis). In this cosmology, Odin has tried to > recreated the same Norse pantheon of the RW (IMO > prolly because he and Hel came from a similar > situation before arriving in Mystaraverse) and as > such > he has invited other immortals to take up the roles > of > the Aesirs and Vanirs. > > I am now stuck with picking the right Mystaran > immortals to fulfill certain roles among the Aesir > (male deities under Odin's rule) and Asynie (female > deities under Odin's rule), so I need your help > here. > > Consider that by default the Aesir are ALL Odin's > sons > (with one considerable exception: Forseti, who's > Balder's and Nanna's child, and he's considered Full > Aesir because they are both Odin's children), while > Asynie are all Odin's daughters AND the official > wives > of one of the Aesirs (Sif is Thor's wife, Sigyn is > Loki's wife and Idunn is Bragi's wife). > > This is the situation so far: > > Aesir (12): > > Odin (creation, wisdom, balance, sky, magic) = > himself > Thor (warriors, battle, honor, good) = himself > Loki (mischief, deceit, changement) = himself > Heimdall (guardian god, defense, sacrifice) = > himself > Forseti (justice) = himself > Bragi (poetry, eloquence, skald) = Guidarezzo (see > old > Immortal & IM1) > Hermod (traveler god, messenger and brave) = Sinbad > Tyr (war, justice, honor) = ? > Balder (light, purity, good, joy) = ? > Hod (winter, night, blind god) = ? > Vidar (strength, loyalty, vengeance) = ? > ?? = ?? > > Asinye (12) > > Frigg (fertility, hearth, protection) = Terra > Sjofn (love and faithfulness) = Valerias > Lofn (passion, unfaithful love) = Valerias > Var (oaths, loyalty, truth) = Tarastia > Vor (justice, all knowing) = Tarastia > Idunn (beauty, eternal life, spring) = Thalia (see > old > Immortal); later Lornasen > Saga (poetry, legends, history) = ? > Snotra (wisdom, knowledge, humbleness) = ? > Eir (medicine, healing, herbs) = ? > Sigyn (compassion, faithfulness, sacrifice) = ? > Nanna (family, love, happiness) = ? > Sif (childbirth, fertility, will) = ? > > The main problem with those uncertain is that I need > to find some immortals which should have been > immortal > BEFORE BC 1700 (when the Antalian ancestors of > modern > Heldanners + Northmen were transported into the HW > and > the Antalian Cult created), so to be incorporated > into > Odin's cosmology. > > Also, I am at a loss at finding out who's the > twelfth > male Aesir!! > I have done my researches and certainly it cannot be > Ull (or Ullr, god of snow, archery, hunting and > duels), because he is not the son of a male Aesir > and > is reportedly listed under the Vanirs (and I agree > with this). > Also, I cannot list Vali among the 12, because he's > technically a LATER addition: Odin sires Vali just > for > the pourpose of killing Hod (the blind god of > winter), > who had previously been tricked by Loki into killing > his twin Balder. Vali is thus a late Aesir, and I > don't think that the events of Balder's death and > Hod's death have yet occurred in Mystaran mythical > history. > So who is the twelfth Aesir? > > I am inclined to think of Meile, Thor's unknown > brother... but it doesn't sound right (since there's > no mention of him in Thor's official background). > > Also I cannot count in Modi and Magni (Thor's two > sons; he also had a daughter, Thrudh) because > technically there must be only 12 Aesir, and if I > count both I've got 13! The reason for having 12 > Aesir > and Asynie is that by this number the northmen > divided > the hours of the day (12 for Aesir + 12 for Asynie = > 24 hours) and the months of the year (12 for each > male > Aesir)! > > Now I've got 2 ideas to solve this matter right now, > but I'm definitely open to other suggestions. > > I could say Balder is Ixion and Nanna (his wife) > another aspect of Valerias, this would not be a > great > problem. > I could then say that Hod (god of darkness and > winter) > is none others than Thanatos, who was offered a role > too by Odin in order not to displease anyone. > It could work if you think that Hod in some Norse > legends is not simply a "powerless blind god who's > tricked by Loki into killing his twin Balder", but > he's the sibling of Balder, envious of his brother's > appeal to the other gods and struggling to get for > himself the love of Nanna. For this reason he sides > with the giants to lead an invasion in Asgard but > he's > stopped by Balder and Heimdall (and blinded). Later > he > conspires with Loki and kills Balder. > > If this is accepted, the other Aesir & Asinye could > just be the individual deities who are known as The > Korrigans (there are 9 of them), elven immortals who > ascended in 2900 BC and were worshipped in that > region. > So we'd have: > > Balder = Ixion > Hod = Thanatos > Tyr = Korrigan 1 > Vidar = Korrigan 2 > unknown deity (12th Aesir)?? = Korrigan 3 > > Nanna = Valerias > Saga = Korrigan 4 > Snotra = Korrigan 5 > Eir = Korrigan 6 > Sigyn = Korrigan 7 > Sif = Korrigan 8 > > Another possibility is that all of the ??? immortals > are Korrigans: > > Tyr = another aspect of Thor > Vidar = Korrigan 1 > Balder = Korrigan 2 > Hod = Korrigan 3 > ?? = ?? > > Nanna = Korrigan 4 > Saga = Korrigan 5 > Snotra = Korrigan 6 > Eir = Korrigan 7 > Sigyn = Korrigan 8 > Sif = Korrigan 9 > > > I am also trying to understand if there can be > somebody else to take the role of Sigyn, wife of > Loki.. would you think of a specific immortal for > that > role (remember that she's a very loyal and > compassionate wife, the only one who could stand > Loki's malicious and devious character and be by his > side even during the most difficult moments). > > Any help will be greatly appreciated ;) > > A desperate DM > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My > Yahoo! > http://my.yahoo.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 15:29:20 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Help with War Machine --- Donald Eric Kesler: > I'll tell you what I will do, I will write > everything up nice and pretty and > share it with the group soon. Looking forward to it! If you want to share your illustrations too, that would be cool :) Håvard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Dec 2004 to 3 Dec 2004 (#2004-259) **************************************************************