Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 8 Feb 2004 to 9 Feb 2004 (#2004-36) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 10/02/2004, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 9 messages totalling 372 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Adventure Scenario: War of the Druids (6) 2. dwarven geneds and numbers (was dwarven bible) (2) 3. Back from the "No World" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:30:04 +0800 From: "Francisco V. Navarro V" Subject: Adventure Scenario: War of the Druids Hail Mystarans! I though I'd just share a product of my musings. It started with the question: What is the difference between druids who worship nature, and druids who worship dieties of nature? (Admittedly, part of it comes from my trepidation with the Forgotten Realms patheon politics! What's the point of having one *god* of nature, then an elven *god* of the same thing? And I thought these *gods* were supposed to be all powerful beings! At least, in Mystara, we can admit that our Immortals are really not omnipotent, so it's okay for our dieties to be squabbling over portforlios. Anyway, enough Forgettable Realms bashing...) So, getting back on topic, I thought this question could actually be best addressed in the Mystara setting (for the reasons mentioned in the above rant) and the conflict can be exemplified by an adventure conflict. Basically, on Mystara, there are two groups of these nature worshippers: There are the druids who worship Nature, an abstract idea, an impersonal and all-powerful force, and simply the way of the world. They worship none of the Immortals, and they are considered pagans at best, heretics at worst. There is a second group of druids, those who actually worship a particular Immortal of Nature, and thus are technically clerics with druidic or druid-like powers. They generally believe in a common "way of nature" (not unlike the elven philosophies), but they do maintain certain faiths/doctrines that subtly promote the will of thier individual Immortals (i.e. Followers of Djaea are more conservative and concerned with preservation, while those of Terra are more open to new flora and fauna and interested in how these new species play a role in the entire ecosystem. Followers of Eiryndul and Ordana have an pro-elven bias in their ways, while those of Faunus have an affinity to the fey.) Some of these druids are even ecumenical, worshipping all and every nature diety in whatever shape and form. Of course, the "true druids" (the first group) think these "nature clerics" are inferior, needing such anthropomorphisms/personifications of nature for their feeble human/mortal minds to even comprehend the vast power of nature. Of course, most mortals, especially in more urban cultures, have no inkling of such druidic matters--or the conflicts that will arise from them. And if the PCs come from such backgrounds (which most probably they do), then they're in for a bunch of surprises! What happens next? I actually haven't detailed this part out yet, but this would be the meat of the adventure. Basically, the two groups of druids start having a go at each other. Turf wars, so to speak. So PCs who go into more natural (not just woodland) environments will have a taste of nature gone wild--animals acting crazy, plants acting crazy, weather acting crazy, new monsters, new magic, hazards animal, vegetable, and mineral, and maybe even a vicious duel or two between powerful druids! And if the PCs can't be lured into a natural environment, then nature will go to them. Nature will start to invade into the urban comfort zones of the more complacent PCs. And nature, doesn't have to "follow the rules." Nature will go wild! (DM plot device: Mix and match your Random Encounters by Geography tables to introduce those rarely used encounters in your campaing.) Desert sands emerging in lush forest areas. Mountainous crags appearing in fertile agricultural plains. Artic weather, flora, and fauna in temperate or tropical climates. And since this a nature thing, it transcends cultural and political boundaries, so it can happen anywhere and everywhere in Mystara, even outside the traditional druid forests. (DM plot device: Introduce foreign characters into your campaign, say an Ochalean druids with thier bamboo and oriental magic, or Atruaghin druids and their brand of nature worship outside the plateau.) The motives? What moves these crazy druids? The possibilities would be: 1. Conflicts in doctrine, as discussed above. ("My druid kungfu is better than your druid kungfu!") 2. Conflicts in policies about the realm of nature. (Eco-conservation vs. eco-preservation vs. eco-terrorism vs. eco-domination) 3. Influenced by the lords of Entropy. The list of suspects would be Nyx (who is actually a nature Immortal herself), Thanatos (He hates living things. Period.), Atzanteol ("The Corrupter," perhaps in a bid for becoming a reigning Hierarch of Entropy), or Loki (aka "The Prince of Deceit"). 4. Influenced by a less evil, but nontheless chaotic nature Immortal. ("Did I jusss... *hic*... spill my drink?... into the... *hic*... Oh... My bad!" said Faunus) OR.... (And this is a scenario I've been toying with in a while...) 5. Another force of chaos and nature is causing all the chaos in nature. Read: The Faerie Realms! ("Well, well, you just took our Dreamland, so we just thought, well, fooey on you Immortals and your stoopid wrath! So there!) This could be a post-Wrath of the Immortals, post-fall of Alfheim scenario, where the faeries are just pissed at those stupid mortals and those high and mighty Immortals for screwing up their earthly home. And a non-pissed faerie could be crazy enough to handle, so what more a pissed one? (Note: Faunus will definitely have a role to play in this scenario, since he'll be one of the few Immortals in-the-know with the faeries.) And perhaps, since the links to the Material Plane have been weakened, they can't use their usual crazy fey magic, so they just channel it through their attunement with nature, making all the druids and nature worshippers all screwy, until they get their home back. (And who can really get fairy logic anyway?) OK, I do have to give this a bit more thought, cuz I'm getting a bit screwy myself... (Is that pixie dust on my keyboards?) But I'll air this out for the mailing list now, and maybe get some ideas from you guys, while I sober up a bit. Kit Navarro Mystaran Nature Worshipper ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:24:01 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Adventure Scenario: War of the Druids Francisco V. Navarro V wrote: > > Basically, on Mystara, there are two groups of these nature worshippers: > There are the druids who worship Nature, an abstract idea, an impersonal and > all-powerful force, and simply the way of the world. They worship none of > the Immortals, and they are considered pagans at best, heretics at worst. > > There is a second group of druids, those who actually worship a particular > Immortal of Nature, and thus are technically clerics with druidic or > druid-like powers. Interesting topic! Let's see, what would be the areas of influence of these nature cults? Clearly followers of the Immortals are dominant in the Savage Coast, and where nature--oriented Immortals are more powerful, as in the elven lands or perhaps the Atruaghin Clans. Certainly we have: * Druids of Ordana, Asterius, Diulanna, Zirchev, Faunus, Odin and Thor in Robrenn. Most druids of the coast belong to this order, I'd say, including those in the Savage Baronies * Webmaster Druids of Herath -- these might be "true" druids or followers of Eyrindul and Korotiku * Druids of Ordana, Zirchev and Terra in Jibarù * Druids of "Orisis" in Ierendi (secluded remnant of Nithia!) * Druids in Norwold, these might be "true" druids, or followers of Thor, Odin and the rest of the Norse pantheon Any more druids to report? Or other types of non-canon druids that may appear somewhere -- Ochalean druids sound interesting, e.g.. Bye, GP -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:56:15 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Adventure Scenario: War of the Druids Following my thread with the Carnuilh, they were Druidic, but not based upon Immortal worship. Some of this rivalry can be based upon how the descendants of the Carnuilh; the Dunael, Robrenn, Eusdrian, and Wendarian faiths have degraded themselves by taking Immortal sponsorship. IMC, I had a fairy incarnation of the "Green Knight", a powerful sihde that had both wizardly and druidic powers, and of course was wrapped up in a knight. This Green Knight started a campaign of uniting the descendants of the Carnuilh, first by reorganizing the wild men tribes of Norwold, then restructuring the faith ties to tribal kings on the Isle of Dawn (Dunael). Following the tribal migrations of the Carnuilh, you would eventually reach the Savage Coast in a band of Celtic type warriors all from the north. Read an epic of Brian Boru here. The Oghriz still follow a pure nature Druidism, although more on the dark side of nature. Their Druids are symbolized by their blue eyes as they are descendants of the Carnuilh that taught them their brand of Druidism and animal worship. Question: If we have 2 spheres to Druidism, how many Archdruids can there be on Brun? Or is this even part of the design, every few hundred years the Archdruid is replaced by a pure nature druid vice an immortal sponsored druid? Also from my campaign, the Druids of the Dunael were wizards first, then at 9th level adopted the druidic practice, vice being a cleric first, following this principle the Dunael still worship the more naturalist, herbology and astrological aspects of druidism. They are more “Merlin” like from myth. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:48:37 -0800 From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" Subject: dwarven geneds and numbers (was dwarven bible) > Very cool, nice flavour. I liked it a lot. Thanks! > An idea struck me while I was reading too: To revive the dwarven race Kagyar could have created a small number of true Rockborn dwarves (the 500 or so) instilled with the ability to breed with the remaining Kogolor Dwarves and genes that would be dominant over the Kogolor Dwarves genes. Thus without actually removing that many of the Kogolor and not creating that many Rockborn he could re-vive the dwarven race and those that would not follow the rockborn ways would die out. I don't think it is necessary to take fantasy-genetics into it. The last time I remember we did that (with the Mystaran half elfs) I got a serious headake (and Im supposed to be a biologist!) But it is possible to say that the rockborns are genetically modified kogolors (it was never written HOW immortals create new life so your guess is as good as mine). BTW- Did you notice the problem in the gaz when it said the the dwarves grew in numbers from 500 to 125000? they have to breed like bacteria to do it (a logaritmic scale) concidering the fact that a dwarven generation is 50-100 years and they live in a less than perfect surrounding. So I left the numbers much much lower in the "bible". > Thus the rockborns teachings were the ones that were handed down because they controled the ability to breed and all rockhome dwarves trace their ancestory to the Rockborn. Additionally it could be that the Modrigswerg could be decended from the Kogolor who did not breed and accept the rockborn, turning to magic and necromancy to maintain themselves, and driven from rockhome. Their names striken from dwarven records along with all of those dwarves and histories not belonging to the Rockborn. A religious clensing of sorts. Additionally it offers another explaination for the rift between the Rockborn and the Modrigswerg and why they are not refered to in dwarven records and were banished from their home. Chris. > Thats very interesting. I agree that the Mordinswergs are deffinately decended from Kogolors and that their fate has much to do with the diifferences they had with the rockborns. Also, if you are not playing OD&D Mordinswergs are probably very crafty with arcane magic (which rockborns cannot touch). Maybe there are other groups of original dwarves that survived like the Mordinswergs in other parts of Mystara. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:04:29 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Adventure Scenario: War of the Druids Following more on this thread, just how did the modern Druidism appear? The Robrenn and Eusdrian cults evolved over the elven influences in their history, the Eusdrian’s being more influenced by elvish culture than the more “barbaric” Robrenn. There may be more naturalist druids in the intrigues of Robrenn. The Dunael may have been forcibly converted by the Alphatians and Thyatians at different intervals, thus having to drop some of the adherence to the natural forces and picking up “names” of those forces in the form of the different pantheons of Thyatis and the magical spheres of Alphatia. So it seems as an evolution of events that elves brought in the immortal sponsorship to more of the modernistic cults. Then missionary work of advancing civilizations also brought in sponsors. The Neathar being supplanted by the Antalians would have named Nyx or Odin as sponsors for their Druidism. Some cultures could carry names of pantheons only by looks for their nature worship , not knowing they are worshiping the purist aspect and not following a true immortal at all. RW Driudism does have a pantheon, even modern Druids draw from beliefs of Christianity, showing near-likeliness between philosophies, much like how Catholics converted some pagan beliefs by having saints impersonate different aspects of their beliefs, new age druidism matches the same. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:55:13 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Adventure Scenario: War of the Druids I like the idea of creating Mystaran Druidism as a whole balancing faith, by merging the differing philosophies of Naturist vs. Sponsorship. Each druidic conclave would vie for positions of the inner circles, some worshiping the more entropic aspects of nature or sponsorships by Nyx, and other circles of purists that say nature itself is the lending power. Even some may be more fairy entwined. Each philosophy building and/or losing power to newer or older ideas. At times of indecision or discord, all of nature goes out of whack, including immortals getting disarrayed. Several events can follow these phenomenon; Blackmoor, GRoF, Vulcania, Sundering Seas (Taymora), Black Sand Cataclysm, and even the WoTI. I would say more immortal sponsored druids where in the inner circles leading up to the aftermath of the WoTI. Now with several larger area cataclysms and earth shattering devastations; the circles would be filled with more purist or naturist druids, if not they would be on the brink of war. “See, your immortal sponsorship has blinded you to the truth! The world must now cleanse itself of outside influences; redeem yourself back to the pure thought or suffer the baptism by wrath!” Some elven clans may even shun the sponsorships that held their beliefs and revert to an older tradition of pure nature worship, including sacrifices of other elves, “Say hello to Ilsundal, and tell him we are ready to face his next wrath and we will defeat him as we now remember the truth!”. I just love unseelie and dark druids, evil DM smile… ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:23:56 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Adventure Scenario: War of the Druids Drawing a direct line of relation to Druidic Circles controlling all aspects of nature, if the circles take a darker view, then the influence to the fey will be darker as well. The world would see more changelings, moor hags, agons, and other “unseelie” Dragons would also see a shift in power to more of the chaotic renegades, even a few noble dragons getting rebellious. New creatures and plants will emerge to fight off the new pestilence, possibly starting in the form of the very first Mystaran breed of Zzonga plant that grows readily in the wild without magical aid. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:44:17 -0600 From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: Back from the "No World"

I recently came across an out of the way comic shop in Oklahoma City. To my suprise they had an unopened copy of The Savage Baronies box set!! I never found it when it was published and have been unsuccessful in downloading it. Needless to say it was in my collection faster than a duelist from Smokestone City!

                                                           Multizar the Mage

 

 

> > Wow I thought most people would forget about little
> > old New Zealand.
>
>Actually, I was in NZ just a month ago and I found
>some D&D stuff and even MYSTARA stuff (!) in some
>shops.

Create your own personal Web page with the info you use most, at My MSN. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:39:12 +1300 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: dwarven geneds and numbers (was dwarven bible) > I don't think it is necessary to take fantasy-genetics > into it. The last time I remember we did that (with > the Mystaran half elfs) I got a serious headake (and > Im supposed to be a biologist!) True. I wasn't going to explain the genetics tho (it is a fantasy setting after all) I was just using 'dominant genes' (they could be magically dominant altering the genes of those dwarves they breed with even) as a tool to allow the rockborns to start with a small number and by breading with other dwarves to drastically increase the number of rockborns by "breeding out" the kogolor. > But it is possible to > say that the rockborns are genetically modified > kogolors (it was never written HOW immortals create > new life so your guess is as good as mine). According to Gaz5 the rockborns were created from the kogolor dwarves. I assumed by magically altering their genetics. Imortals should know how life works after all. > BTW- Did you notice the problem in the gaz when it > said the the dwarves grew in numbers from 500 to > 125000? Yeah, Carolleti pointed it out in his history. And this in part was to try to offer ONE explaination for that. However I was just thinking about it, As far as I can figure starting with 250 couples if each dwarf couple has 27 children in their life (about one every 5 and a half years and leaving home at 20) for 3 generations there will be ~123,000 great grandchildren. So perhaps it wouldn't be imposible, just unlikley. > Thats very interesting. I agree that the Mordinswergs > are deffinately decended from Kogolors and that their > fate has much to do with the diifferences they had > with the rockborns. Also, if you are not playing OD&D > Mordinswergs are probably very crafty with arcane > magic (which rockborns cannot touch). Maybe there are > other groups of original dwarves that survived like > the Mordinswergs in other parts of Mystara. Well my veiw is that the Modrigswerg can learn magic but that it is very dangerous and can accelerate their rot and insanity, but it can also prolong their life (or undeath in some cases) and allow them to achieve things that they could not otherwise do. I really like the idea that there might be a few other original dwarves around. Perhaps there could be some Kogolor settlers that were far enough away to escape the distruction of blackmoor and the doom of their race. There culture would have evolved very differently from the rockborn and the modrigswerg who all essentially live in one area of the worlds mountains. We do have the ice gnomes and such after all. Chris. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 8 Feb 2004 to 9 Feb 2004 (#2004-36) *************************************************************