Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 9 Feb 2004 to 10 Feb 2004 (#2004-37) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 11/02/2004, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 11 messages totalling 380 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. dwarven genes and numbers (was dwarven bible) 2. Adventure Scenario: War of the Druids 3. Paladins, and an interpretation of Mystara 4. dwarven geneds and numbers (was dwarven bible) (4) 5. All-Father (Was) Adventure Scenario: War of the Druids 6. All-Father (2) 7. All-Father (last bit) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 01:55:20 -0800 From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" Subject: Re: dwarven genes and numbers (was dwarven bible) > I really like the idea that there might be a few > other original dwarves around. > Perhaps there could be some Kogolor settlers that > were far enough away to > escape the distruction of blackmoor and the doom of > their race. There culture > would have evolved very differently from the > rockborn and the modrigswerg who > all essentially live in one area of the worlds > mountains. We do have the ice > gnomes and such after all. > > Chris. > I also went over the D&D2ed "the Complete Dwarf" and found most stuff in it to be very un-Mystaran. But if we want other dwarves who are not Rockborn we could have a breed of Deep Dwarves (an equivvelent of shadow elves, dug so deep to get away from the radiation they can't even stand the sun anymore) and gully dwarves (the Rain of Fire messed these guys up big time). So in all there is the proud nation of Rockborns (with expansions to other parts of the continent) and a small amttering of degraded tribes, deformed and wierd. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:20:56 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: Adventure Scenario: War of the Druids BTW, I wrote an adventure called "Guild War" for a Finnish RPG mag many years ago. In the story a rich merchant introduces the first real manufacture in a city state, thus dangering the power of the local craftsmen guilds. This sparks a war over the economic and technical development of the city, or the whole area. I introduced an NPC druid called Turftrodder (Turpeentalloja for you Finnish guys), who intervened in the war, as he saw the danger that manufacture economics posed to the "nature". Perhaps some sponsorship druids might be more inclined to look elsewhere on such an occasion, while some "true" druids would be totally against it. The others would perhaps engage in a long debate over the true definitions of nature and traditionally linked values such as originality, wildness, purity... And as we saw in the case of Alphatia, theoretical debates can get pretty heated! (I just came back from holding a lecture on the multiple meanings of "nature" in western/northern traditions, so this thread kind of hit the mark.) Ville ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:38:26 -0000 From: "N. M." Subject: Re: Paladins, and an interpretation of Mystara Hi, Thanks for the greets and feedback, Morten Greis and Morphail. Morten Greis, I liked how you approached the introduction of new players to Mystara. I've did something similar, back in the Eighties when I was still playing D&D with the boxed sets. I actually took my cue from the Basic and Expert Rules, at first introducing my players to a town that became Threshold and a country that became the Grand Duchy. With more and more Gazetteers being released, we never looked back. Was great! A lot of players nowadays though really like to immerse themselves in a setting before they create their characters. (Like going out and buying all the books. Something they can't do with Mystara.) That's what the introductory document was for. Morphail: << I loved the way you described Mystara. I liked especialy the part how immortality and magic sprang out of a non magical world (an alternative universe to earth). >> Yeah, I thought it was essential to give Mystara a unique angle to distinguish it from FR and Greyhawk. The parallel universe idea seemed perfectly feasible, since it'd worked for Tolkien and Middle-earth. ;) Having Mystara a parallel universe actually made it more credible to the players as well. The cultures in D&D settings are so often pastiches of real world cultures, so this way, instead of the players just yawning and saying, "Huh, these guys are just like so-and-so." The players say, "Ah-hah, these guys are just like so-and-so!" It allows them to visualise the Mystara cultures easier, but doesn't put them off by seeming so hackneyed. << Ordana is another imortal that awakened into consiousness and later into immortality (and she was a PLANT!)so this process could have happened several times. >> In my setup, I had Ka as the first and most powerful of the immortals, representing preservation. I also made him a commonly known immortal, so that Mystara gets this dalliance with monotheism. Again, to separate it from the usual pantheon of gods arrangement of the other settings. Ordana makes a perfect earth mother figure IMO. Another commonly known immortal then. << this also raises and issue about Lattere (dimension of myth, a world even more similar to our own, home to the original d'Ambervilles that originated in CA Smiths novels). Maybe that world is another alternative reality in which Ka died, and therefor immortality never evolved. >> Now this gets really really interesting, as we introduce more parallel universes. Maybe Lattere is a world where no immortals ever existed and magic became the purview of myth and superstition? Is magic real? Nobody knows for sure, etc. And what of the Radiance artifact? << I like the first option. Ka was worried of the changing landscape... his beloved Gondowana was going to be split apart and some of it was getting awfully close to the south pole... >> I like that idea too. Ka represents preservation after all, not necessarily nature or the natural order. Holding together the supercontinents would be an act of preservation. It is the world as he knows it, therefore he preserves it. nemarsde ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:53:50 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Re: dwarven geneds and numbers (was dwarven bible) Ohad...I don't know when you returned to the list, but I am writing a complete dwarven timeline and some parts of it are up on the Vaults. I dealt with the Modrigswerg origin and the Rockborn origin, and with the "500 dwarves" problem too...I read and liked your "dwarven bible", although I took a different approach to the dwarven ancient history {and especially to what dwarves know of their past}. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:58:33 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Re: dwarven geneds and numbers (was dwarven bible) > I really like the idea that there might be a few > other original dwarves around. > Perhaps there could be some Kogolor settlers that > were far enough away to > escape the distruction of blackmoor and the doom of > their race. There culture > would have evolved very differently from the > rockborn and the modrigswerg who > all essentially live in one area of the worlds > mountains. We do have the ice > gnomes and such after all. > > Chris. Yes, I wanted to use this idea in my history to describe the dwarves of Skothar, that according to a project written by Geoff for the Skothar Team of the Almanac live in the mountains east of the Bay of Thorin. I have not decided what to do with them exactly, however...I think that these dwarves too would have to be very different from the HW Kogolor, otherwise it wouldn't make sense to transplant that culture to the Hollow World, as there would be no risk of extinction. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:19:19 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: All-Father (Was) Adventure Scenario: War of the Druids This original thread got me thinking of a new story line. Comments are more than welcome! I will break this up since it is so long.... The Carnuilh All-Father The Druidic circle of the Carnuilh relies heavily on the belief of the All-Father, a near immortal being that transcends time by reincarnating himself as the Grand Druid of Brun. This circle of purists does not believe in immortal sponsorship, and that the world itself with all its life is the magic or the ley that they transcend from. At times the All-Father does not remember his previous life, so the purists must take charge and remind the Grand Druid of his past. At some intervals, the All-Father hibernates for a season, and so a female or sponsored Grand Druid will hold the title for Brun. It is said that when the All-Father awakens and challenges the current Grand Druid, that he is so in-tuned to the world ley, that he can deny all other druids of their power, and thus easily wins the challenge and thus continues his cycle of power. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:20:28 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: All-Father The history behind the All-Father is even grander than his cycles of being Grand Druid of Mystara, not just Brun. During those times of hibernation or when the Grand Druid needs remembering, the All-Father is actually being the Grand Druid of other circles in other areas of his concern. The All-Father is so ancient, he does not remember his true identity or age; but he knows he was immortal at least twice before. What he remembers of his eldest days is that he was revered as a hierarch in one of the spheres, at the time of the Blackmoor Civilization. When the Great Rain of Fire began, he transcended all his immortality and memory to save Mystara from what he believes would have been its utter doom. He does not know how he did this, but he believes it is just another cycle that he needed to complete. In the aftermath of the cataclysm, he awakened as a Jade Dragon; giving somewhat of a clue as to his original form, alluding to a dualistic nature, he believes he may have been one of the first Draedens that transcended into immortality through the sphere of Matter. This gives some credence to his true nature and ties to Mystara, as some circles of the Skothar Druids believe the world is nothing but the hollow shell of an egg of a greater being, like a Draeden; but being as there are more dragons in this branch, they have a more fatalistic view of what became of Ouranos. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:21:31 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: All-Father The All-Father, as a dragon, lived near a Neathar tribe that was being invaded by Antalians on Brun. Not knowing, or remembering why he intervened, he polymorphed himself as a human and lived among the Neathar and slowly made a truce between the two tribes by giving them a commonality in thought, druidism. He then started to learn of the world ley, and taught several members of both tribes the druidic ways and became a druid himself. The All-Father then stepped away from these people to develop on their own and worked hard at hording Blackmoorian artifacts as he began his successes to become the Opal Dragon known as Sun. At his ascension, several rifts in thought changed several cultures. His Neathar/Antalian merged culture began a great many series of migrations and called them the Carnuilh. Humanoid hordes started conquests and even greater rampages across Brun, many of which displaced whole cultures of other tribes and other humans. Some cultures enclosed on the S ylvan Realm and caused its downfall, but from it created Alfhiem. Even the Nithians had a change in thought, and accepted more entropic ways into their beliefs. The All-Father knew what changes were made to the world, and was very grieved by them. When a mate of his vied for power through ascension many years later, he feigned death and allowed his old mate to envelope his mantle of power and she ascended to become the current Opal Dragon in the sphere of Matter (never fully knowing that he was the mate of her eggs that many years before were destroyed by the Antalians from one of the tribes he influenced, and caused her to begin her quest of vengeance and immortality). The All-Father remembered this life very well and still had his powers as the Grand Druid. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:22:32 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: All-Father (last bit) The All-Father soon began a series of work to try and rebuild the damages his ascension had caused. He returned to the Carnuilh, and began a series of dissensions within the now greatly numbered tribe. He instructed the eastern-most tribe to be captured by the Nithians, and gave them great knowledge on astronomy and carving stones of power. The Nithians began to acquire this knowledge from their new slaves, and were saved from the tragedy of the western Nithians that stayed on the entropic path. These Carnuilh later escaped the slavery and began their lives as the Dunael. Remnants of the Carnuilh also helped the elves in Wendar, the proto-Oghriz of the Adri Varma plateau, and rallied fairy and woodland creatures alike to help save the Sylvan Realm of the elves from an untimely end at the hands of Moorcroft. Smaller remnants he tempered by having them settle along the Savage Coast, and still further by settling near Hyboria. He has since left them on their own, mainly to learn of the other great circles on the other continents. The All-Father later returned to instruct several druids in the art of achieving immortality through the spheres. For Time, Maud of the Robrenn is the granddaughter of the Grand Druid that has been following this path, but even before her, the druids have been choosing their country’s leaders for the same purpose. The Great Druid of the Dunael is following the path of the Paragon for the sphere of Energy. In Norwold, the Great Druid of the Brythoni started the path of the Polymath, several generations ago; hence they have not had a solid druid leadership since his leaving. Others surely exist, but of the closest ones attaining immortality, these four are nearly complete. The All-Father has even influenced a fey of great renown in the Sylvan Realm to partake the quest for immortality through the sphere of Thought, as only a thief of the fairy could partake. Disguising herself as a knight with wizardly abilities , uniting the remnant tribes of the Carnuilh in the north and westf Brun, calling herself the Green Knight an avatar of the Sun and a follower of a great jade dragon. Some circles believe this is truly a persona of the All-Father, representing the dualistic nature and communing the feminine side of his ascension. In reality, the All-Father split his mantle in 5 known pieces when he gave up his immortality to Opal. Of the fragments, only the All-Father is aware of their true existence, as the other four fragments of his power are each trying to achieve immortality in the spheres and not knowing their true identity or the existence of the All-Father. The All-Father is aware that he may have a sixth unknown persona attempting to counter his moves by the achievement through the sphere of Entropy and his attentions for that presence has been focused on the Shadow Circle of Druids on Brun. The All-Father does not believe he is immortal, but has been able to use strokes vs. oth er immortals, and hide the fact that he exists on Mystara, in all his forms. This has caused some of his thought to wonder if he may truly be Ouranos on a further quest of the Old Ones in achieving some higher goal than just immortality. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:03:01 +1300 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: dwarven geneds and numbers (was dwarven bible) > Yes, I wanted to use this idea in my history to > describe the dwarves of Skothar, that according to a > project written by Geoff for the Skothar Team of the > Almanac live in the mountains east of the Bay of > Thorin. I have not decided what to do with them > exactly, however...I think that these dwarves too > would have to be very different from the HW Kogolor, > otherwise it wouldn't make sense to transplant that > culture to the Hollow World, as there would be no risk > of extinction. Thats a very good point. Although if they are from the rockhome region they would have had to have quite a good reason to move away from their bretheren in a relitively under-utilised nation at the time. Therefore there would likely be large cultural differences between the two to initiate the move. Some ideas: We know that Kagyar gave dwarves a greater love of the deep earth so perhaps these dwarves would dwell more on the surface then the rockborns do. Maybe some live more like hin then dwarves but more industrious and warlike. Then again maybe they are extremely warlike, conquering and enslaving. that would at least explain why/how they moved and some major differences between them and the kogolor. Alternatively thornia could have funded the building of a dwarven colony so that they could have dwarven craftsmen and mining operations closer to home. Over the centries they could have growen more independant of Thornia. Has anything more been written on them then in the 1018 entry for thornia? Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:09:06 -0800 From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" Subject: Re: dwarven geneds and numbers (was dwarven bible) Oh yes, my captain, I realise I should have checked the last updates in the vaults before sending. But nothing should be contredictory when it comes to relegion from the mortal perspective. This 'bible' I wrote could have lots of different and contradictory interpetations. The fact that dwarves are doesn't mean that different believes don't evolve. It could be that Denwarf himself wrote the text (especially if he wasn't always a golem) or someone else who is not completely objective (no one is...). the real bible's genesis 1 and 2 in the old testiment have themes that differ in parts. And also a lot of relegious people believe that creation was different than the actuall wording in the text (the whole 6 days-5 billion years thing) and still believe the text to be true and holy. If you claim in your campaign that all rockborns know that they are not the first dwarves in existance, than the text could be something they give outsiders. Morphail aka Ohad, (I will do anything to sell my stories) Shaham --- la Volpe wrote: > Ohad...I don't know when you returned to the list, > but I am writing a complete dwarven timeline and > some > parts of it are up on the Vaults. I dealt with the > Modrigswerg origin and the Rockborn origin, and with > the "500 dwarves" problem too...I read and liked > your > "dwarven bible", although I took a different > approach > to the dwarven ancient history {and especially to > what > dwarves know of their past}. > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi > allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam > http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 9 Feb 2004 to 10 Feb 2004 (#2004-37) **************************************************************