Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 25 Feb 2004 to 26 Feb 2004 (#2004-51) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 27/02/2004, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 10 messages totalling 428 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Stronghold Builders 2. [Ethengar] Steppe Halflings (7) 3. OD&D (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 01:02:56 -0700 From: Lintan Subject: Stronghold Builders I'm new to this group so this may have come up already so forgive me if this is old stuff. I've been thing of this since I got the Stronghold Builders Guidebook from WotC. I read though it a few time along with the DMG and for building materials we have things like stone, Masonry, wood, magic materials But not something that been around for a long time, Cement and Concrete. Both those building materials are seen everywhere in every modern day life but as a building material it's been around for like 7000 years. It's fairly easy to make*, used by both the Egyptians and the Romans. I found a couple of site on the history of concrete (I'm not sure how accurate they are but most seem to agree on the age and use of concrete) which I will add at the bottom for reference. As a building material its easier to transport then LARGE stones for castle and Forts, once set its as hard as stone and gets STRONGER with age, Most importantly it's a liquid Stone that can be made into any shape, take Cement power add water pore set and No wizard or magic involved. Now I'm not saying all of the D&D worlds should be made of concrete but Gnomes and other industrious countries might have knowledge of it, maybe as a national secret. Ok lets here the ideas, thoughts, comments. What would the stats on concrete be? Who would have its knowledge? *(Burn Limestone to make cement paste and adding crushed stone and water, of course there are other thing added like Gypsum, admixtures and various types of Aggregates but limestone water and crushed rock were the main ingredients) http://matse1.mse.uiuc.edu/~tw/concrete/hist.html (The History of Concrete :) http://www.readymix.co.uk/pages/AboutConcrete.asp (The History of Concrete :) Lintan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 01:01:05 -0800 From: Herve Musseau Subject: Re: [Ethengar] Steppe Halflings From: Havard Faanes > 1) this is a really small culture, consisting of just > a few clans. They are a proud and arrogant people, who > will never refer to themselves as "Hin" as they > despise other Halflings. I need a good > ethengar-sounding name for them. Ideas? Well, how about Hun? ;) ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:24:45 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Re: [Ethengar] Steppe Halflings --- Thibault Sarlat ha scritto: > Yes! > > i really liked the idea. > I'm even jealous not having it first.. > JRR must have made a 360 in his grave when you typed > that the mingled with goblin...but maybe they were > hippies hins and they were into some "make love to > Goblins and not war"... > > thib LOL! Anyway, I thought that maybe goblins sounds more likely than hobgoblins. Hobgoblins are the size of humans, while goblins are about the size of halflings. Giulio ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:15:45 -0600 From: Devon Griffiths Subject: OD&D > From: "Joaquin Menchaca" > I believe that many Mystarans are as I am: Playing an old campaign by old > rules sets (whether they be OD&D or AD&D 2E) and uninterested in ever going > to 3E. I will always write my Mystara adventures/articles for OD&D > exclusively. If collaborating, I will always leave it up to others to > translate to 3E, if that is desired. I, for one, simply have no interest in > moving to another rules system. > > But having said that, in general, it would be nice to see more collaboration > on adventures and other things Mystaran. But a little bird told me there'll > soon be a couple of adventures out. ;) Am I saying too much, little bird? > > Jacob Skytte > scythe@wanadoo.dk > > ------------------------------ Mystara is the cro-magnon gamer's last refuge! I have no interest in 3e either, and simply put, I don't think I am alone in this way. When they tried to translate Mystara to 2e something was lost in the translation. IMHO "Classic" D&D and Mystara are part and parcel of each other and you can't port Mystara over without losing much of the flavour of the campaign. I'm glad for all the people still writing new material with an eye to OD&D even if it is unofficial. If there is a new generation interested in creating a 3e Mystara, this is fine, however, it is not my Mystara ... and I suspect many, many others feel the same way ... to ask them to write in 3e is just not going to happen. "Disunity" is not an issue, because those who are writing in OD&D simply never will write in 3e. 3e players must accept this fact, they must already, since I figure they must translate the Gazeteers etc, and I don't think WoTC is going to go through another revision after the spectacular failure of the last (2e). The best solution for 3e gamers who fret about the persistance of OD&D would simply be to come up with a more or less canon translation guide, because it isn't going away anytime soon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:47:05 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: [Ethengar] Steppe Halflings Halflings of the Steppes: Thanks for the feedback everyone. I’m going to try to reply to all of these in one big email… Geoff Gander: > I think this is a neat idea! IIRC, the Glantrian > purges took place in the > first decade of the 9th century AC (ie, 800-810 or > so), so we would be > looking at about 200 years of living amongst the > Ethengarians. This would > certainly be enough time for the halflings to adopt > some of their > neighbours' ways, but I think (given the hins' > longer lifespans) we would > need to have more time for them to integrate fully > into the Ethengarian > culture. Perhaps they have lived in the region for > 400-500 years? Good point. Christopher Cherrington also argued that the Halflings should enter the Khanate Lands at an earlier point of history, and it makes sense to me. Using Chris’s theory Akhila-Khan entering the Steppes around 1750 BC, bringing in Halfling Slaves from various areas including both the Five Shires and Leeha. Baka (Khan) drives Akihla Khan out of Ethengar and declares himself Khan of all Ethengarians in 1688 BC. The Halflings are freed, but must learn to fend for themselves. > Another thing we would have to consider would be the > clans - would the > steppe hin be scattered amongst all of the clans > (and adopting their > individual idiosyncracies), or would they form a > clan of their own? I > suppose the answer to that question would lie in how > they were treated > when they first arrived - if they were attacked, or > treated with scorn, > the hin would probably have banded together to > survive, and formed their > own clan. Thanks for pointing this out. The second option makes most sense to me. The Ethengararians are a harsh people and have no respect for people who cannot survive on their own. With noone to help them, these Halflings realize that they have to learn the way of the horse warrior or perish. They form their own clans, uniting under one tribe, loyal to Baka Khan. When Baka dies, the Halflings, still a very small clan, are not affected much by the Succession Wars. Chris Cherrington: > LOL, “small” culture of Halflings… Hehe :) [Name] > Sarni is the Mongolian word for Moon; I am figuring > that maybe this sub race is more nocturnal than the > average Halfling. (See later) Sarni is a good name! And I don’t know any other Mongolian words. I did have a beer with a guy from Mongolia once, but I have no idea what happened to him. Anyways, Tribe Sarni it is! [Mounts] > Why war ponies? Is there something else a Halfling > on the steps can ride? War Dogs instead of wolves? > Maybe even something in the Blinkdog family? > Halflings riding Displacer Beasts? I like the idea of unusual mounts. War Dogs certainly is a possibility. Blink Dogs and/or Displacer beasts are also cool ideas, but should perhaps be reserved for leaders or other prominent Sarni Halflings. I will be posting more on unusual mounts among the Ethengars in general next week if I can finish that stuff. Giulio: > To explain this you could have them mingled with > some > of the hobgoblin tribes in the past. This could > explain why they are not widely known, nor mentioned > in the Gaz. It would be "canon-consistent" to have > them as a very "small" (pun not intended) group, > maybe > 300-400 halflings with 10% hobgoblin blood, so that > they are not considered very different from other > humanoid tribes and thus mainly ignored among the > other cultures of the Known World. Decent idea. There may even be the occational half-goblin (Gobling?) among them. Since this is such a small culture anyways (There I go again with the small), there is no reason why they should have been mentioned anywhere in canon, nor does putting them in there necessarily change anything. (Although one day a small Halfling carrying a magical ring may try to climb the World Mountain…) > Giulio: > I don't know...maybe 2700 without being noticed are > a > little too much. But, who knows, maybe 500-600 > years. > The halflings could have been dispatched by the > arrival of the Flaems. Maybe they lived near the > Wendar/Heldann border. I’m not saying they haven’t been noticed. They just don’t make much of a difference. Still, you are right, 2700 years is a long time. Why do they remain such a small group? Are they constantly preyed on by the goblins and other humanoids? I am also open for other ideas. The Flaem theory is also a possibility. Comments? > --- Herve Musseau > Well, how about Hun? ;) Lol :) Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes havardfaa@yahoo.no www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:37:20 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: [Ethengar] Steppe Halflings There are some other ideas to think of too! The Bekha is a large solitary panther (6HD). This would be a dangerous mount, but not as dangerous as a Displacer Beast. Also, having the Sarni living near the World Mountain would have also kept them a secret, as not many outsiders know of its existence, or the land of the Black Sand. If we go with the unusual mounts of blink dogs or displacer beasts, we should also give them an affinity with that type of magic, illusions and/or shifting/teleporting. Maybe something in the Black Sand has left a residual effect on its inhabitants. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:38:27 -0600 From: Web Warlock Subject: Re: OD&D Well I for one really enjoy 3E, BUT pulling out my old OD&D books and playing with those rules gives me a sense of joy akin to when OD&D was just D&D and the only game I had. Even though I am not actively playing in Mystara right now I still enjoy getting the chance to go back to that world "of my youth". ;) Tim -- Timothy S. Brannan timothy.brannan@comcast.net -- Liber Mysterium, The Netbook of Witches and Warlocks. Available now at: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/libermysterium.php ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:03:38 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: [Ethengar] Steppe Halflings Haavard wrote: > I’m not saying they haven’t been noticed. They just > don’t make much of a difference. Still, you are right, > 2700 years is a long time. Why do they remain such a > small group? Are they constantly preyed on by the > goblins and other humanoids? I am also open for other > ideas. The Flaem theory is also a possibility. > Comments? Hmmm...one reason why the Sarni hin remain a small group could be the very nature of their culture. Perhaps, due to the harshness of the land, athe hatred of the embattled humanoids, and the lack of acceptance from the Ethengarians, the Sarni are even more strict than their neighbours. Perhaps any sign of weakness is cause for killing and/or abandonment (the clan can't afford to care for those who can't pull their own weight); and of course the clan itself is not unified, so if the Sarni khan shows any sign of weakness, his rivals will kill him at the first opportunity - all for the good of the clan, of course (no personal agendas at all, no sirree). Add to this the habit of some of the khanates of blaming the Sarni whenever anything goes wrong (ie, distract your grumbling warriors by leading a foray into Sarni lands, burning and killing all the way), and the occasional alliance of humanoid tribes seeking to expel the Sarni from lands they claim as their own (perhaps for spiritual reasons), and you have many reasons why the Sarni, despite high birth rates, have not claimed large portions of the steppes for themselves. Just some more thoughts, Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:29:52 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: [Ethengar] Steppe Halflings Sarni hatred probably stemmed from several Hin heroes looking for something on top of the World Mountain. Possibly expanding into the downfall of the Sarni that the Hin stole their artifact that gave them the Black Flame. Although the use of Black Flame with the special properties of the Black Sand made the Sarni invisible in Moon Light…. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:27:42 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: [Ethengar] Steppe Halflings Another possibility is a Sarni with a sense of humor and being invisible telling an Ethengarian the story of creation. “Yeah, I am the spirit of the Yak, I created the universe from my dung…” The Black Sands are also known for their plagues of madness, this can be attributed to the Sarni version of Halloween. Every so often when the 2 moons are in correct alignment, the winds will pick up enough Black Sand to enable the Halflings to become Ethereal. They can fly with the wind spreading pranks, vandalizing and other foolery to their neighbors. The moons also play a part on the neighbors by spreading the real madness on to un-ethereal creatures. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 25 Feb 2004 to 26 Feb 2004 (#2004-51) ***************************************************************