Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 10 Mar 2004 to 11 Mar 2004 (#2004-62) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 12/03/2004, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 15 messages totalling 754 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. WotI campaign, at last! (WotI's and MoA's spoilers) (11) 2. doriath in Adri varma (answer to Havard) (3) 3. WotI campaign: Morphail ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:31:52 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: WotI campaign, at last! (WotI's and MoA's spoilers) On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Alex Benson wrote: > I am unsure of the stats in X10. However, remember that elves shouldn't > follow the typical model for a population for armed mobilization. Typical > populations use something along 25-33% of the populace as able bodied men and women fit > for combat. The balance represents the young, the old, and those not up to > the physical demands. Elves, with their lifespans and reproduction rates, would > have fewer young and possibly fewer elderly. Hence, the troop pool would be > larger as the population would be composed of mostly adult to mature elves. > Yep. You are absolutely right. Actually when I went out for a smoke yesterday after writing my comments, I came to the same conclusion. Ville ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 03:02:58 -0800 From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" Subject: Re: WotI campaign, at last! (WotI's and MoA's spoilers) > However, with the recent > murder of Prince Morphail, rumoured to have been > dealt with by Alphatian > necromancer hunters, there might well be more > troubled times ahead! Eeeek! How dare you... No matter, the roaring demon will soon take vengence on this Alphatia of another dimension.. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:29:50 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: WotI campaign, at last! (WotI's and MoA's spoilers) --- "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" wrote: > > However, with the recent > > murder of Prince Morphail, rumoured to have been > > dealt with by Alphatian > > necromancer hunters, there might well be more > > troubled times ahead! > > Eeeek! How dare you... > No matter, the roaring demon will soon take vengence > on this Alphatia of another dimension.. Hmmm...that makes me wonder. Would the death of Prince Morphail mean that Alphaks would have to return to his bargain and make the Prince an Immortal, as was the original deal between the two? Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes havardfaa@yahoo.no www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:35:54 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: WotI campaign, at last! (WotI's and MoA's spoilers) --- Colin Davidson wrote: > > The Elven king Doriath established a new kingdom in > his name in the > woodlands of Atraughin; Cool that you have also been developing this idea. While I also originally intended Doria (Doriath's Kingdom IMC) to be located in the Athruagin region, I am currently considering moving it to an alternate area, possibly the Adri Varma Plateu. Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes havardfaa@yahoo.no www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:44:04 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: WotI campaign, at last! (WotI's and MoA's spoilers) --- Aaron Nowack wrote: > *nitpick* There is actually one thing that could do > it, a Spell of > Preservation/Oblivion style full-blown Immortal > intervention, similar to > what I used in the timeline for my Mystara 1600 AC > campaign setting. > [which I do intend to post more on at some point, > but have been > distracted by myriad other things.] Perhaps Terari found an artifact with which he could to some limited degree control the SoP. He would first make the Alphatians launch a massive invasion of the Neathar lands to spark off the SoP, then manipulate the SoP into forcing Alphatia back where it used to be. > I think such an intervention would be rather likely > in the case of a > surface-world Alphatia and Heldann dominating the > Hollow World for long > periods of time - after all, the whole purpose of > the Hollow World is to > protect its inhabitants from the more successful > Outer Worlders. Once > the Immortal war over the Radiance is finished, I'd > imagine that surface > world contamination of the Hollow World would be one > of the main > problems facing the reigning Hierarchs. I really dont like the idea of these cultures being prevented to evolve by the SoP. Am I the only one who finds this concept utterly silly? One way to get rid of the SoP, is to state that the scenario I presented above, with Terari taking controll of the Spell eventually broke it. The immortals, realizing the spell had been flawed were then hesitant on what to do next. Benekander would again push for non-intervention. > Which might actually make for an interesting basis > for an Immortal campaign. Indeed. :) Håvard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes havardfaa@yahoo.no www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:46:00 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: WotI campaign, at last! (WotI's and MoA's spoilers) --- Geoff Gander wrote: > One way of doing that would be to have the Doomsday > Device work as planned > - ie: blowing up Sundsvall - and leaving the rest of > the continent intact. > Then you just have to extrapolate what would happen > next. That's what I > planned to do IMC, with the result being a nasty > civil war between the > remaining factions of wizards. This is a pretty decent idea, which would preserve alot of the good Pre-WotI setting elements. Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes havardfaa@yahoo.no www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:14:14 -0000 From: Colin Davidson Subject: Re: WotI campaign, at last! (WotI's and MoA's spoilers) > Cool that you have also been developing this idea. > While I also originally intended Doria (Doriath's > Kingdom IMC) to be located in the Athruagin region, I > am currently considering moving it to an alternate > area, possibly the Adri Varma Plateu. Would also work. I'm planning a major conflict in the Atraughin/Sea of Dread region, based on the Elves having moved there. Too good a plot line to pass up! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:16:01 -0000 From: Colin Davidson Subject: Re: WotI campaign, at last! (WotI's and MoA's spoilers) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Havard Faanes" To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] WotI campaign, at last! (WotI's and MoA's spoilers) > Hmmm...that makes me wonder. Would the death of Prince > Morphail mean that Alphaks would have to return to his > bargain and make the Prince an Immortal, as was the > original deal between the two? It all depends on whether you've had that happen in your campaign :-) In mine Morphail hadn't had any such deal, he was merely a powerful (5th circle) necromancer and nosferatu. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:54:58 -0800 From: Thibault Sarlat Subject: doriath in Adri varma (answer to Havard) i do have mae nice little maps of that area, but unfortunately, there are not much forests there... but some miles north , that could be possible. thib --- Havard Faanes wrote: > --- Colin Davidson wrote: > > > > > > The Elven king Doriath established a new kingdom > in > > his name in the > > woodlands of Atraughin; > > Cool that you have also been developing this idea. > While I also originally intended Doria (Doriath's > Kingdom IMC) to be located in the Athruagin region, > I > am currently considering moving it to an alternate > area, possibly the Adri Varma Plateu. > > Havard > > ===== > *** > Håvard R. Faanes > havardfaa@yahoo.no > www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa > > ______________________________________________________ > Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på > http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ > Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med > superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== Thibault SARLAT a.k.a Clenarius www.mystara.fr.st ICQ 16622177 MSN Messenger: clenarius@hotmail.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:21:05 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: WotI campaign, at last! (WotI's and MoA's spoilers) Havard: <<> The seeds to this have already been planted in canon > works. Alphatian > subjugation of the Neathar is a start. Also remember > that the Heldannic Knights were > moving to assert influence in HW as well. Alphatia's > role as the HW's UN > peacekeepers was scripted, and might I add, is a bit > contrary to the Alphatian > national character. Good point. It would almost seem like the almanac designers were planning something similar.>> As I think about it, I recall some MA discussion about the possibility of Alphatia breaking the SoP, either intentionally or unintentionally. Intentionally- Alphatia is a land of mages, sages, and clerics. Discovery of the SoP is already known among the named persons. These are the ones in position to be able to research the SoP. Given the Alphatian mindset, the SoP could be easily viewed as a subjugation tool by the Immortals. For a people that see their higher echelons of mages as being near immortals this may not be acceptable. Given DnD rules, if you throw enough time and resources at something a solution can be found. Perhaps use of artifacts in conjunction to produce an unitentional affect. And one should not discount Immortal aid in this. Loki could see it as a joke against the status quo. Alphaks might enjoy removing Alphatia from the safety of HW. And so on... Unintentional- Alphatia in HW offers the potential for potential paradoxes that other HW cultures can only imagine. Coastal towns and cities looking out onto empty space. Family lost during the war (i know the earthquake excuse is weak). Reappearance of presumed lost "earthquake" victims as SW/HW contact continues. Two thousand years of history altered. Imagine poetry and art that depicts days and nights. Imagine the daylight hating undead, some of which are nobles. Alphatians are intelligent, inquisitive, and singleminded. It's quite possible that the conflicts and paradoxes cannot be easily accepted, tossing the SoP into a state of chaos. Either way, the immortals could intervene if the SoP was threatened. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:24:30 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: doriath in Adri varma (answer to Havard) --- Thibault Sarlat skrev: > i do have mae nice little maps of that area, but > unfortunately, there are not much forests there... > but > some miles north , that could be possible. Ah, but forests wouldnt be a problem. That is where elf magic comes to play. True this will take a while, but Alfheim wasn't raised from the plains of Darokin in a day either. I assume that wherever they go, the elves would want to alter the terrain and climate of their new dwelling. Moving them further north is another possibility, but that would really place the new alfheim far away from where things are really happening.... Havard > thib > --- Havard Faanes wrote: > > --- Colin Davidson > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The Elven king Doriath established a new kingdom > > in > > > his name in the > > > woodlands of Atraughin; > > > > Cool that you have also been developing this idea. > > While I also originally intended Doria (Doriath's > > Kingdom IMC) to be located in the Athruagin > region, > > I > > am currently considering moving it to an alternate > > area, possibly the Adri Varma Plateu. > > > > Havard > > > > ===== > > *** > > Håvard R. Faanes > > havardfaa@yahoo.no > > www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på > > http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ > > Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med > > superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > ===== > Thibault SARLAT > a.k.a Clenarius > www.mystara.fr.st > ICQ 16622177 > MSN Messenger: clenarius@hotmail.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster > http://search.yahoo.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes havardfaa@yahoo.no www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:48:27 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: WotI campaign, at last! (WotI's and MoA's spoilers) An alternative to sinking and tranfer of a copy to HW would be to have the Doomsday device go off...as already suggested. These would throw the Alphatian War Effort off. Even though Glantri would and should suffer as badly as Alphatia with the loss of its magic, perhaps the lapse would give them time. Darokin might change its mind about allowing Alphatian forces uncontested passage across its borders to Glantri. Emphasize the uncertainty of the duratoion of the loss of magic to encourage a change of heart from Darokin, possibly creating the WDL. The Alpher forces would be hesitant to procede onto Glantri. Perhaps the DDC would try to broker a peace, which may be easier with the disappearance of Etienne. Back on the Alphatian Mainland, the ruling mages would be powerless. Much chaos. Slave uprisings. Toss in a bit of "end of the world" style anarchy and a state of Marshal law would be needed. Troops, bound for Glantri campaign would be recalled to maintain calm. Thyatis might even be abandoned as troops are pulled back into pre-Wrath territories. Alphatia could even be thrown into a civil war. Eriadna and the "old guard" rulers could be viewed as failing the empire by letting this happen. It happened with her father and surely other rulers would share some blame. The opposition, possibly led by Zandor, could seek a return to a more aggressive Alphatia. That would be more than enough to tie Alphatia up and prevent it from restarting their war after the Ww/oM. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:00:26 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: WotI campaign, at last! (WotI's and MoA's spoilers) > Hmmm...that makes me wonder. Would the death of Prince > Morphail mean that Alphaks would have to return to his > bargain and make the Prince an Immortal, as was the > original deal between the two? Perhaps Morphails "death" might be his ascendance to Immortality. If Alphatia is involved in killing Morph, it is possible that Alphaks might have influenced them, possibly using them as cover for the transition from Mortal to Immortal. Entropy's Path is not described in the Immortal Codex. With Morph as an Immortals he could almost step into Rad's shoes in terms of influence over Glantri. Images of Ravenloft come to mind. Of course another take would be that Alphaks never had any intention of elevating Morph to Immortla status...well beyond vampirism...simply lacking the ability to do so without acting as sponsor and going through the Entropic Path. Given Glantri's view on cleric's it is possible that Morph had no idea how one attains Immortal stutus and took Alphaks at his word. I could see Alphaks doing that. BTW I use Malachie and Morphail as names for characters in Horizons and Asheron's Call...so I feel the pain as well. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:21:21 +0100 From: Thibault Sarlat Subject: Re: doriath in Adri varma (answer to Havard) yep you're right but any drastic climactic change in the adri varma region would have dire c= onsequences for the surrouding teeritories... the sind desert would not be so desertic (at least in the north) the river which flow northward would gradually grow bigger and dig deeper i= n the fragile soil of the adri varma plateau, probably casing some major ca= tastrophe downriver, p to Hule. and i don't see the master allowing a whole nation of elves so close to his= neighbourhood..(many great adventure hooks there) good idea Havard > Message du 11/03/04 15:38 > De : Havard Faanes=20 > A : MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Copie =E0 :=20 > Objet : Re: [MYSTARA] doriath in Adri varma (answer to Havard) > --- Thibault Sarlat skrev: > i > do have mae nice little maps of that area, but > > unfortunately, there are not much forests there... > > but > > some miles north , that could be possible. > =20 > Ah, but forests wouldnt be a problem. That is where > elf magic comes to play. True this will take a while, > but Alfheim wasn't raised from the plains of Darokin > in a day either. I assume that wherever they go, the > elves would want to alter the terrain and climate of > their new dwelling. > =20 > Moving them further north is another possibility, but > that would really place the new alfheim far away from > where things are really happening.... > =20 > Havard > =20 > =20 > =20 > > thib > > --- Havard Faanes wrote: > > > --- Colin Davidson=20 > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Elven king Doriath established a new kingdom > > > in > > > > his name in the > > > > woodlands of Atraughin; > > > > > > Cool that you have also been developing this idea. > > > While I also originally intended Doria (Doriath's > > > Kingdom IMC) to be located in the Athruagin > > region, > > > I > > > am currently considering moving it to an alternate > > > area, possibly the Adri Varma Plateu. > > > > > > Havard > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > *** > > > H=E5vard R. Faanes > > > havardfaa@yahoo.no > > > www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > F=E5 den nye Yahoo! Messenger p=E5 > > > http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ > > > Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med > > > superkvalitet og dobbelt s=E5 morsom > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > > The Mystara Homepage: > > http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Thibault SARLAT > > a.k.a Clenarius > > www.mystara.fr.st > > ICQ 16622177 > > MSN Messenger: clenarius@hotmail.com > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster > > http://search.yahoo.com > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > =20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > *** > H=E5vard R. Faanes > havardfaa@yahoo.no > www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa > =20 > ______________________________________________________ > F=E5 den nye Yahoo! Messenger p=E5 http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ > Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt s=E5 mor= som > =20 > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > =20 > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:15:27 -0000 From: Colin Davidson Subject: Re: WotI campaign: Morphail > Perhaps Morphails "death" might be his ascendance to Immortality. If Alphatia > is involved in killing Morph, it is possible that Alphaks might have > influenced them, possibly using them as cover for the transition from Mortal to > Immortal. Entropy's Path is not described in the Immortal Codex. With Morph as an > Immortals he could almost step into Rad's shoes in terms of influence over > Glantri. Images of Ravenloft come to mind. > > Of course another take would be that Alphaks never had any intention of > elevating Morph to Immortla status...well beyond vampirism...simply lacking the > ability to do so without acting as sponsor and going through the Entropic Path. > Given Glantri's view on cleric's it is possible that Morph had no idea how one > attains Immortal stutus and took Alphaks at his word. I could see Alphaks > doing that. Gosh, but that's getting -awfully- close to where I'm actually going with that plotline :) In my campaign Morphail was seeking immortality in the sphere of entropy with Nyx, not Alphaks, as his patron; I've been portraying Morphail as evil, but not an outright destructive force. His interests have been more the furtherance of night and undead races rather than anything else, and he's created a lasting legacy of undeath in his dominions. A final part of his ascendence was to be to take Wendar into his the grip of his undeath, and that's the part the PC's interfered with; whether he's gone permanently or not I've yet to decide, I'm kind of leaving that open at the moment because the thought of him coming back scares the willies out of the players! If he -does- come back, I have it in mind that he would take on a Rad like position, and the PCs might eventually (high masters level!) end up coming to the aid of their former enemies in Glantri to rid them of the awful undead menace, possibly with assistance from Glantrian lycanthropes and kobolds... If he doesn't come back then clearly Prince Brannart or another aspiring necromancer might end up fulfilling that role, possibly (heavens forbid) with sponsorship from the Master of Hule? Lots of good plot hooks there to choose from! ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 10 Mar 2004 to 11 Mar 2004 (#2004-62) ***************************************************************