Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 17 May 2005 to 18 May 2005 (#2005-103) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 19/05/2005, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 11 messages totalling 647 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. The Death of Desmond Kelvin (4) 2. CoT & CoK Hierarchy (was: The Death of Desmond Kelvin) (2) 3. Blackmoor Products for Mystara Product list ( was: [MYSTARA] New Blackmoor serial available!) 4. Blackmoor Products for Mystara Product list ( was: [MYSTARA] New Blackmoor serial available!) (2) 5. CoT & CoK Hierarchy (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:58:37 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: The Death of Desmond Kelvin This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---559023410-851401618-1116403117=:19184 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Tue, 17 May 2005, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: >> Still, in the post-WotI setup offered in "Karameikos- Kingdom of >> adventure" Lady Arteris would be a likely candidate. Perhaps not >> a marriade of love rahter than politics. > > Uhm, but then Arteris is even older than Adriana -- I think she was > in > here thirties in the GAZ era, by post-Wrath time she would be in > her > early forties! > Adriana developing into "a hopeless spinster" was more a psychological notion. IMC she has simply decided that she won't let any man shackle her, ever - and at least now she seems to manage to assert her independence in front of her parents, too. Arteris being old (IMC it's 1012) is no problem. Marriages of convenience have been arranged between generations for years and years. I don't happen to have my GAZ1 at hand so I can't check how old Desmond is supposed to be in 1012. But shouldn't he be quite mature also? ******************************************************* Ville Lähde University of Tampere Department of Mathematics, Statistics and Philosophy 33014 Tampere, Finland phone: (work) 03 215 7573 (home) 040 7776772 email: Ville.V.Lahde@uta.fi http://www.uta.fi/laitokset/mattiet/filosofia/lahde.htm ******************************************************* ---559023410-851401618-1116403117=:19184-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 11:07:21 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: CoT & CoK Hierarchy (was: The Death of Desmond Kelvin) Brendan, your description of the Church of Karameikos is practically identical to mine, down to the division of labour between Jowett and Oderbry. (Of course IMC the lower Patriarch of Specularum or "Master of Ceremonies" is no longer Oderbry, since he has been killed. But the structure remains.) The only exception was that I didn't include Priests at all in my schematic, but then again I just didn't include any other temples than the ones in bigger villages. I also had each Partiarch have a couple of Bishops (and of course a host of Priests and Acolytes) working under him. That was just to create the feeling of a large church in a small country. I organised the CoT very much like CoK, but that was due to campaign-specific reasons - the church had to react to certain external threats by organising itself properly. I too have drafted names for the most important figures in both churches. But since you have modeled yours on the basis of canon products (whereas mine was made only for the purposes of one and only campaign), yours should be much more useful to others. Ville ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:43:56 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: The Death of Desmond Kelvin Ville V Lähde wrote: > > Arteris being old (IMC it's 1012) is no problem. Marriages of > convenience have been arranged between generations for years and > years. That's true. But then lady Arteris might be a little too old to produce an heir, which would hardly suit Desmond (or any noble), IMO. > I don't happen to have my GAZ1 at hand so I can't check > how old Desmond is supposed to be in 1012. But shouldn't he > be quite mature also? Uhm, he's quite young (he inherited his fief recently, after the untimely death of his father) in the GAZ, though he isn't specifically given an age. He might be in his late thirties or early forties in AC 1012. Bye, GP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 16:17:09 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: CoT & CoK Hierarchy (was: The Death of Desmond Kelvin) Thanks for posting this Brendan! I was using more or less a similar model, especially for the CoK, though I never made much of a ruling on the CoT. It is good getting a complete writeup though! I would love to see the Coats of Arms that you mention. I am sure that Shawn would be willing to host them at pandius.com (Man, it feels good to have such a short url to remember!) if you don't get your own site up and running.... By the way, it would be cool to have a complete writeup of all of the Bishops and Patriarchs of the two churches... Håvard --- Brendan Corliss wrote: > I created some basics on the organizational > structure > of the two churches for my campaign. > > Church of Karameikos > Based on GAZ1, there seems to be 3 ranks in the CoK: > Priest, Bishop, & Patriarch. I broke this down so > that > any clergyman who presided over a temple was > considered at least a Priest. If his/hers was the > main > temple located in the main city/town of an Estate, > he/she would be considered a Bishop. For example, > the > priest of the temple at Verge would be considered > the > Bishop of Verge. If he/she presided over the main > temple in a Barony, he/she would be a > Patriarch/Matriarch. There is, actually, one more > rank... High Patriarch, ie Olliver Jowett. IMC, > Oderbry is technically the Bishop of Specularum > since > he presumably tends to the city's worshipers, while > Jowett tends to the overall Church organization. > > Church of Traladara > I've intentionally kept the organization of the CoT > fairly loose as I see the church as being somewhat > de-centralized and informal (except in some areas in > the south). As far as ranks, I only use Priest and > Patriarch. Any cleric of at least 3rd level is given > the title of Priest whether or not he presides over > an > actual temple. In fact, IMC, the CoT doesn't have > alot > of temples - most of the religion relies on > travelling > Priests. As far as Patriarch/Matriarch status, I > based > things somewaht on Francesco Defferari's History of > Traladara (http://pandius.com/tralhist.html). Each > of > the original power centers of the 12 founding clans > maintains a traditional rank of Patriarch or > Matriarch > (called by its original Traladaran name where it > differs from Thyatian): Vatresh (Threshold), Vaion > (Penhaligon), Mirros (Specularum), Mevu (Marilenev), > Dmitrov, Sulescu, Luln, Halag* (Ruhmhof ie Fort > Doom), > Rugalov, Vetu (Rugalov Keep), Krakatos*, Lav*. Of > course, several have special circumstances > surrounding > them: the Patriarch of Halag is basically in hiding > as > Baron von Hendriks toelrates no CoT presence; the > Patriarach and Matriarch of Krakatos & Lav are > basically ceremonial titles, and currently both > reside > in Specularum. BTW, Nikelnevich is considered the > Patriarch of Mirros since the title is traditionally > bestowed upon the Patriarch of Traladara. > > So there you have it. I have names and coats of arms > for all of them (anyone of the title of at least > Bishop in a church is authorized to a > personal/family > crest IMC) but my website seems to be in constant > state of reworking, so I don't think any of it is > currently available online. > > -Damon > AKA Brendan Corliss > Corliss Enterprises, Ltd. > Darokin City > > > > May all your endeavors be Gold! > > > > Yahoo! Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the > tour: > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 16:29:37 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: The Death of Desmond Kelvin --- Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > Uhm, but then Arteris is even older than Adriana -- > I think she was in > here thirties in the GAZ era, by post-Wrath time she > would be in her > early forties! Arteris' age wasn't listed in K:KoA, but AFAIK, she was only 22 in AC1000. Another possible candidate is Lady Argenta, the Silver Princess of Haven, especially if Haven becomes integrated as a proper Barony as it has IMC.... Håvard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 16:54:26 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Blackmoor Products for Mystara Product list ( was: [MYSTARA] New Blackmoor serial available!) --- shawn wrote: > Vini, the list contains none of the new Blackmoor > material, looking in the > FAQ that list was last updated in October 2000. If > anyone wants to fix > this please go ahead there's other things I've got > on my plate at the moment. > From Zeitgeist Games/Goodman Games: * Dave Arneson's Blackmoor (d20) Code: GMG4500 Type: Rules Supplement, Campaign Source Setting in Mystara: Implicit Location: Blackmoor, Blackmoor Era * The Redwood Scar Code: GMG4501 Type: Adventure Module Setting in Mystara: Implicit Location: Redwood near Blackmoor, Blackmoor Era * Night in Maus (3 part free pdf series) Code: N/A Type: Fiction (was free download) Setting in Mystara: Implicit Location: Maus, Blackmoor, Blackmoor Era * Sons of Flame, Sons of Hak (pt 1 currently available, pdf) Code: N/A Type: Fiction (free download) Setting in Mystara: Implicit Location: Plains of Hak, Blackmoor Era * The Wizard's Cabal (Coming soon?) Code:GMG4502 Type: Rules Supplement, Campaign Source Setting in Mystara: Implicit Location: Blackmoor, Blackmoor Era I am also investigating suitability of other GMG products for Mystara/Blackmoor such as the Campaign Classics series... Håvard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 12:22:59 -0300 From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes (USP Solar)" Subject: Re: Blackmoor Products for Mystara Product list ( was: [MYSTARA] New Blackmoor serial available!) Wow!!!!!! Thanks, Shawn and Havard! Indeed! Shanw, what are your always - genious - plans? All the best to you both and the folks, Vini At 11:54 18/5/2005, you wrote: > --- shawn wrote: > > > Vini, the list contains none of the new Blackmoor > > material, looking in the > > FAQ that list was last updated in October 2000. If > > anyone wants to fix > > this please go ahead there's other things I've got > > on my plate at the moment. > > > From Zeitgeist Games/Goodman Games: > * Dave Arneson's Blackmoor (d20) > Code: GMG4500 > Type: Rules Supplement, Campaign Source > Setting in Mystara: Implicit > Location: Blackmoor, Blackmoor Era > > * The Redwood Scar > Code: GMG4501 > Type: Adventure Module > Setting in Mystara: Implicit > Location: Redwood near Blackmoor, Blackmoor Era > > * Night in Maus (3 part free pdf series) > Code: N/A > Type: Fiction (was free download) > Setting in Mystara: Implicit > Location: Maus, Blackmoor, Blackmoor Era > > * Sons of Flame, Sons of Hak (pt 1 currently > available, pdf) > Code: N/A > Type: Fiction (free download) > Setting in Mystara: Implicit > Location: Plains of Hak, Blackmoor Era > > * The Wizard's Cabal (Coming soon?) > Code:GMG4502 > Type: Rules Supplement, Campaign Source > Setting in Mystara: Implicit > Location: Blackmoor, Blackmoor Era > > I am also investigating suitability of other GMG > products for Mystara/Blackmoor such as the Campaign > Classics series... > > H=E5vard > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 19:03:32 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Blackmoor Products for Mystara Product list ( was: [MYSTARA] New Blackmoor serial available!) No problemo Vinni, you can find out more about these products at www.zeitgeistgames.com or at www.goodmangames.com The current Blackmoor products do not make any specific references to Mystara, at least partially due to lisence issues, but provide an excellent source to further develope Mystara's past. If you are planning on running the time travelling scenarios presented in the DA-series or in the Glantri Gaz, they are invaluable IMO, not the least if you are using 3E. Håvard --- "Vinicius R. de Moraes (USP Solar)" wrote: > Wow!!!!!! > Thanks, Shawn and Havard! Indeed! > > Shanw, what are your always - genious - plans? > > All the best to you both and the folks, > Vini > > > > At 11:54 18/5/2005, you wrote: > >--- shawn wrote: > > > > > Vini, the list contains none of the new > Blackmoor > > > material, looking in the > > > FAQ that list was last updated in October 2000. > If > > > anyone wants to fix > > > this please go ahead there's other things I've > got > > > on my plate at the moment. > > > > > > From Zeitgeist Games/Goodman Games: > >* Dave Arneson's Blackmoor (d20) > >Code: GMG4500 > >Type: Rules Supplement, Campaign Source > >Setting in Mystara: Implicit > >Location: Blackmoor, Blackmoor Era > > > >* The Redwood Scar > >Code: GMG4501 > >Type: Adventure Module > >Setting in Mystara: Implicit > >Location: Redwood near Blackmoor, Blackmoor Era > > > >* Night in Maus (3 part free pdf series) > >Code: N/A > >Type: Fiction (was free download) > >Setting in Mystara: Implicit > >Location: Maus, Blackmoor, Blackmoor Era > > > >* Sons of Flame, Sons of Hak (pt 1 currently > >available, pdf) > >Code: N/A > >Type: Fiction (free download) > >Setting in Mystara: Implicit > >Location: Plains of Hak, Blackmoor Era > > > >* The Wizard's Cabal (Coming soon?) > >Code:GMG4502 > >Type: Rules Supplement, Campaign Source > >Setting in Mystara: Implicit > >Location: Blackmoor, Blackmoor Era > > > >I am also investigating suitability of other GMG > >products for Mystara/Blackmoor such as the Campaign > >Classics series... > > > >Håvard > > > > ******************************************************************** > >The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > >The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > >To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 21:04:03 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: CoT & CoK Hierarchy Brendan Corliss ha scritto: > > Church of Karameikos > Based on GAZ1, there seems to be 3 ranks in the CoK: > Priest, Bishop, & Patriarch. I broke this down so that > any clergyman who presided over a temple was > considered at least a Priest. [..] > Church of Traladara > I've intentionally kept the organization of the CoT > fairly loose as I see the church as being somewhat > de-centralized and informal (except in some areas in > the south). IMC, I have considered that both Churches have been building or re-building their structure in recent times: the CoK was recently created, and the CoT faced several difficult times during the centuries (the City-States schism, the vampire and lycanthropic plagues, the Koriszegy affair, the Thyatian invasions, etc.), so both churches have a limited staff and presence. The CoT has many smaller temples (such as Stallanford's temple in B11) and many low level "home" priests or wise-women (such as Pyotr's mother in B10), but the only major temples are in Specularum and Kelvin, with one being under (slow) construction in Rugalov. There is a single Patriarch (after Sergyev's schism), and a small number of Bishops (at least in Kelvin, Rugalov, Dmitrov and Luln). The CoK has a more organized presence, but the only Patriarchs are those described in the books -- Jowett, the two Halarans, Kelvin, and Oderbry. There are Bishops in Penhaligon, Fort Doom, and in Vorloi's barony. I've also added the title of Dean for the leading priest of a given temple (or the most senior aid to a Bishop/Patriarch). Bye, GP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 13:44:25 -0700 From: Brendan Corliss Subject: CoT & CoK Hierarchy OK, so I looked over my site and it looks like the church heraldry stuff is somewhat intact, so anyone interested can check it out by going to http://www.geocities.com/brendan_corliss/ then clicking on the Heraldry link from the left menu, followed by clicking on Karameikos, then Churches. For those not interested in checking that out, here's the additional (non-canon) names & titles I came up with: Church of Karameikos: Patriarch Felix Bessarion, Kelvin Patriarch Heinrich Nussbaum, Ruhmhof (Fort Doom) Matriarch Isabella Solarus, Vorloi Bishop Calvin Andropolos, Verge Bishop Gerhard Damerion, Rugalov Bishop Florentina Dimitrakos, Sulescu Bishop Anatoli Kasparkova, Vandevicsny Bishop Sebastian Oxinos, Dmitrov Bishop Rafael Portius, Luln Bishop Lucan Silvianos, Penhaligon *note there is no Bishop in Marilenev due to the fact that the Estate is still fairly hostile to "Thyatian" interests Church of Traladara: Patriarch Vasili Basilevsky, Vatresh (Threshold) Patriarch Halav Dachev, Vetu (Rugalov Keep) Patriarch Jozsef Kazmarek, Lavv Patriarch Pavel Kosov, Mevu (Marilenev) Patriarch Vladimir Marushka, Vaion (Penhaligon) Patriarch Dobromir Petrescu, Halag (Ruhmhof) Matriarch Tatjana Popova, Luln Matriarch Tamara Romanov, Rugalov Patriarch Zoltan Shtolin, Dmitrov Patriarch Dmitri Sulescu, Sulescu Matriarch Roza Torenescu, Krakatos I haven't actually fleshed any of them out very much, but I have a few ideas for some aspects of several of them. If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to share. I may not incorporate them into my campaign but others might! -Damon AKA Brendan Corliss Corliss Enterprises, Ltd. Darokin City May all your endeavors be Gold! __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 17:08:30 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: The Death of Desmond Kelvin --- Havard Faanes wrote: > > Arteris' age wasn't listed in K:KoA, but AFAIK, she > was only 22 in AC1000. She's actually listed as 29 on p.39 of Gaz1. So by K:KoA times she'd be, what 41? 42? (K:KoA is 1012 or 1013, I don't recall...) > Another possible candidate is Lady Argenta, the Silver > Princess of Haven, especially if Haven becomes > integrated as a proper Barony as it has IMC.... Ah, but wouldn't Argenta's lover, Ellis, Knight of the White Drake, have something to say about that? ;) The Griffon Knight vs. the White Dragon Knight- who will emerge the victor? ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 17 May 2005 to 18 May 2005 (#2005-103) ****************************************************************