Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 28 Aug 2005 to 29 Aug 2005 (#2005-170) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 30/08/2005, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 22 messages totalling 1244 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Mystara d20: Classes (6) 2. Mystara Wild Wild West? (3) 3. Mystara d20: Races & Classes 4. Winter War (2) 5. Vedr. [MYSTARA] Mystara d20: Classes 6. Vedr. Re: [MYSTARA] Mystara d20: Races 7. Most essential Prcs? (6) 8. Wendarian history 9. is list alive? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 09:12:37 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Mystara d20: Classes Joaquin Menchaca ha scritto: > > I could do the following paths: > > (1) have a very limited selection, later adding the > druid and paladin (maybe others) as prestige classes. > (2) have the full breath of classes as in DnD 3e > (Barbarian, Ranger, Druid, Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard, > Fighter, Paladin, Cleric, Rogue) > (3) have main classes: Warrior, Priest, Arcanist, > Rogue with specialities: Warrior (Paladin, Ranger, > Barbarian), Priest (Druid, Cleric, Shaman), Arcanist > (Mage, Sorcerer, Elementalist), Rogue (Thief, Bard). > Or maybe have a mixture, some as staple classes, > others as specialities. IMO, classes that can be taken later than 1st level (or only at higher levels) are only meaningful if they represent some kind of order or caste that has prerequisites to join -- e.g., the Order of the Griffon requires prospective members to have some combat experience and training. OTOH, a Shaman in a primitive culture may simply be the only type of priest available, so it wouldn't make much sense to put requirements or delay the access to the Shaman class. In some cases, this may even vary regionally -- e.g., one cannot start out as a druid in the Known World, but the opposite should be true in Davania (at least according to K:KoA). Bye, G. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 09:18:47 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Mystara Wild Wild West? Joaquin Menchaca ha scritto: > Great information and ideas! Thank you. > > I had a flash of inspiration. What's that plateau > called north-west of Glantri? The area of the 1st > Silver Princess region. > > I was thinking of maybe developing that into a wild > west region with more steam-punk-gnomish inventions > and stuff, so more modern guns, but have some checks > and balances, e.g. harness to get to civilization in > the region, to make sure the inventions don't leak out > to mainstream. The DM can at some point introduce > firearms and steam-powered items to the rest of the > world, or keep it isolated. Uhm, per se this region is fully open to exploration/design by the DM, since there isn't much about it in canon -- even the first Silver Princess can be easily ignored. However, the region is nested between a group of known areas (Glantri, the North-Western Wildlands, Hule), so an explanation of why exactly the technology cannot be exported is in order (something like the Red Curse, but that's been already used). Another option could be a Wild West region is the Hollow World (possibly a floating continent). Bye, G. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 08:47:57 +0100 From: Jon Cole Subject: Re: Mystara d20: Races & Classes Why not just stick with the original options, and then expand upon them ie start with: Fighter: Human/Hin/Dwarf Cleric: Human Ranger: Elf Wizard: Human Rogue: Human with Monk: Human and prestige classes of Druid, Paladin, and Avenger (Unearthed Arcana has a Prestige Paladin and Ranger class in it) then limit the spells to the original set, and crate a feat chain to represent weapon mastery options. That gives a simple model of OD&D. - oh you'd need to severely restrict multi-classing Then you can add in the other options from the Gaz and other series as your next step - Glantri's secret orders sound like prestige classes, Ylaruam has its Desert based magic, Alfheim with its Elven Wizards, Foresters being Human Rangers etc. Minrothad with its water magic (Druids specialising in the Sea in my campaign) The main difficulty would be in dividing between rare "ordinary" classes and distinct prestige classes. For example I'd like the idea of Thyatis et al having Wizards while Alphatia has Sorcerors, and Glantri has its secretive Magical Cults as Prestige classes. After all that you just have to work out what to do with the bits that have been cut out of 3rd ed - are there any Barbarians? Perhaps there are only Orc Barbarians - thats their special thing. Samuari? Only for Catfolk from the Moon sir etc Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joaquin Menchaca" To: Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 2:57 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] Mystara d20: Races > Hello. > > I am going to select some races to documented for the > "Known World" campaign. I wanted to get peoples ideas > for this. I wanted to do the following: > > Dwarf > Gnome > Elf > Hin > Human > > I want to detail the racial statistics, and have also > "cultural" statistics. Later in the future, I can > document specific regional traits for cultures. > > I dare not mention the half-elf, but there is > conflicting material for this. Originally, there was > no notion of a half-elf. The magical fey only beget > other magical fey. However, other especially AD&D 2nd > Edition added the existance of "half-elves". > > I wanted to avoid inserting the "half-elf" or any > other munchkin (half-satyr, half-dryad, half-ogre, > half-orc, etc.), at least for now, but I am curious as > to what the Mystara's community point of view on this. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:59:09 +0300 From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Winter War I'm not sure if you've run into the campaign logs that I wrote for X10, and some rule recommendations, They can be found in the Vaults under the campaign section, heading Twin Campaigns. If I ran the campaign again after my experiences, I'd make even more changes. But anyway, I agree with most people that a winter campaign should be impossible on this "tech level". Magic is powerful in OD&D, but not even nearly powerful enough to wage a total war. (Logistics require too many high-level spellcasters. Intelligence is another matter, that is effected a lot due to magic. Fog of war is lifted substantially compared to RW late middle age/reneissance warfare.) In any case, a prolonged winter war would work against the Nomads, not the allies. I'd suggest a powerful surprise attack during early spring, in which the Nomads will try to capture the Darokin heartlands, their grain silo, very early on. You can use this as a story devise. Without the year's crop the Darokinians will have to use their grain reserves, which will effect recruitment etc. But still if you are keeping with the troop descriptions of the module, it will be hard for the Nomads. If they fail to capture Akesoli quickly, they will lose. This can be halped with the storyline suggestions that I made (Master's magical powers as a boost before Glantri mobilises, for example). But if you want to regain the atmosphere of disaster and urgency that is vital for the Soul gem mission to work, some suggestions: - Thar's Orcs would work very well, if they help Nomads conquer Corunglain or at least stop Glantrian reinforcements for even a month. (IMC the Glantrians broke the siege of Corunglain very early on, which allowed the Darokinians to concentrate forces against the Darokin City siege.) - Make Alfheim elves much more disorganised. Their units can still be powerful, but due to the differing attitudes of the clans, they get only a few into the battle. Ville ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:12:14 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Mystara d20: Classes --- Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > IMO, classes that can be taken later than 1st level > (or only at higher > levels) are only meaningful if they represent some > kind of order or > caste that has prerequisites to join -- e.g., the > Order of the Griffon > requires prospective members to have some combat > experience and training. > OTOH, a Shaman in a primitive culture may simply be > the only type of > priest available, so it wouldn't make much sense to > put requirements or > delay the access to the Shaman class. > In some cases, this may even vary regionally -- > e.g., one cannot start > out as a druid in the Known World, but the opposite > should be true in > Davania (at least according to K:KoA). I agree with this. The danger here is confusing conversion of the rules rather than the setting. The Druid/Avenger/Paladin and similar "Proto-PrCs" of OD&D were sadly not very well integrated into the Mystara setting. They are only mentioned briefly in a few gaz's and a few NPCs posess the classes. Other than that we know very little about them. IMO, the OD&D Druid/Paladin have very little in common with their 3E versions. The 3E core classes with similar names represent simply someone who is on the path to becoming what the OD&D class options represented. The Druid was even more or less developed as a base (core) class by the release of the RC and WotI. Whether to allow these classes or not in a 3E campaign is up to the DM ofcourse, but I suggest allowing them and then developing a separate set of PrCs representing elite versions of the classes, preferably tied in with the cultures involved. If going for a more universal approach, there are already created a few such for 3E such as the Hierophant (suitable for Druids etc) and several for Paladins. Also, IMHO, the Druid core class is an idead Quick and Dirty replacement for the Ethengar Shaman and the Athruagin Shamani if you dont want to take the time to create a new fully fledged class(es) for these characters. Håvard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:16:09 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Winter War Hi Knud! Thanks for raising such an interesting question. I would say historically, assuming medieval/late medieval technology and a central european climate, war during the winter is more or less impossible. The goal them will be to secure as much land as possible before snowfall. Supplies/food will also be a major issue here. OTOH, depending on the level of magic in your campaign and the verious micro-climates in the Known World, the effects of winter may be less severe or even ignored in some places, depending on your campaign style. Hmm...did that help at all? :P Håvard --- Knud Gentz skrev: > Hi all, > > once upon a time... I played module X10 as a player > and would now like to > run it for my own group of players. I have read up > on the various comments > and recommendations posted to the list and agree > that some things will have > to be changed, since in our campaign the nomads were > defeated by the alliance. > I am thinking about having the nomads attack in late > summer, so the war > will drag on into autumn and, possibly, winter. How > will that change the > course of the war? Obviously movement in mountains > will be impossible, > passes might be closed. Movement rates will > generally decline. It may be > easier for units to get out of supply. Attacking and > besieging cities will > be more difficult. By late autumn / winter the > nomads will have the bulk of > their army in Darokinian territory, but the allies > for both sides may have > a difficult time to join the battle. > Any suggestions what else will be different? > Who will have the greates benefit? > Will it at all be possible to wage war in winter? > What will happen, if the > war is not decided by then? I'm not into military > history and have no idea > how hard it really is, to supply an army in winter > in hostile territory. > > Thanks for any comments > Knud > > -- > The legislature's job is to write law. > It's the executive branch's job to interpret law > - George W. Bush > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:26:17 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Vedr. [MYSTARA] Mystara d20: Classes --- Joaquin Menchaca wrote: Classes: > The goal is to try to be generic as possible, but > allow flexibility for expansion when in the future > we > regionalize it. I see this question more as a matter of campaign style than of what fits Mystara best. I would either: 1) Keep it simple: Allow only a few core classes Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard (or Sorcerer since it is easier to play than a Wizard), and no PrCs, possibly you might decide to allow these later. 2)Medium complexity (what I use): all Core Book Core classes and no PrCs. (Again, these may be added during play if you see the need for it). If you do decide to add PrCs you might want to limit yourself to the ones from the Core Books. 3)High Complexity: Anything goes. In any case I recommend making a list of the books including allowed classes/PrCs or a list of the classes/prcs allowed, to avoid the worst cases of game unbalance. > Lastly, I want to have some racial classes. I was > thinking of just documenting generic staple elf, > human, gnome, dwarf, hin. I can see a case for not allowing the half-classes, though I would allow all the core classes since they are fairly balanced and players love to have a few options to individualize their characters. If you are playing a region specific campaign, some races might be more or less appropriate or even inappropriate, though the core races are usually found everywhere. I might even thow in the Lupin and Rakasta emphasize on the Mystara flavor. There are good conversions for these on pandius.com and the Lupin was also covered in Dragon. Good Luck! Håvard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:10:23 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Vedr. Re: [MYSTARA] Mystara d20: Races --- Erol Bayburt wrote: > I gave my answer in my previous post: I don't allow > half-elves, -orcs, -etc. > Or rather I allow them, but they're always humans > who happen to look somewhat > like the race of the non-human parent. They *don't* > get any kewl special > racial abilities from it. This is a good approach if you want a quick and simple style and dont want to get bogged down with extra rules. Also, it fits well with how OD&D handled these races. OTOH, I find all the 3E Core races to be well balanced, and having a few extra options is always fun for the players. Half-Orcs were well detailed in the Darokin gazeteer, and although they arent mentioned anywhere else AFAIK, I see no reason why they shouldnt be abundant everywhere on Mystara. Half-elves are a special case due to the True Half-Elf issue, but IMC the 3E core Half-Elf represents the Common (or lesser) half-elf and I have a separate more powerful racial writeup for True Half-elves. Håvard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:21:09 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Most essential Prcs? What PrCs need to be created for Mystara/the Known World, and which of these would be the most essential ones? Some ideas: GLANTRI: Radience Mage Secret Craftswizard DAROKIN: Guild Merchant KARAMEIKOS: Knight of the Griffon FIVE SHIRES: Halfling Sherrif Master (Keeper of Blackflame) ALFHEIM/WENDAR: Elf Lord Elf Wizard (Archmage?) Treekeeper NORTHERN REACHES/NORWOLD Wise Woman Odin's Raven Runemaster Berserker MINROTHAD/IERENDI Merchant Prince Sea Mage Pirate (Maybe use the Freeport Pirate) Sea Captain (Also something usable in Freeport) THYATIS Gladiator (Perhaps as Core Class?) ETHENGAR Horse Warrior (Ranger variant Core class) Shaman (Druid variant Core Class) Bortak (Rogue variant Core Class) SHADOWELVES/AENGMMOR Shaman (Shadowelf Cleric variant core class) HELDANN Heldannic Knight ROCKHOME Disciple of Kagyar Forgekeeper YLARUAM Desert Druid/Dervish (Druid Core class variant) Anything else? Håvard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:27:33 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Mystara d20: Classes Havard Faanes ha scritto: > > I agree with this. The danger here is confusing > conversion of the rules rather than the setting. The > Druid/Avenger/Paladin and similar "Proto-PrCs" of OD&D > were sadly not very well integrated into the Mystara > setting. They are only mentioned briefly in a few > gaz's and a few NPCs posess the classes. Other than > that we know very little about them. Unfortunately, the (IMO) best opportunity to flesh out the Paladin was lost, as there was no indication that Order of the Griffon Fighter could/would become Paladins -- I suppose this was mostly because Karameikos is a lower-level setting, and Paladins are supposed to be available only from 9th level up. OTOH, the Druids were quickly expanded to cover low-level characters, even though it was only a brief mention in the Ierendi Gaz. Bye, G. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:41:19 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Mystara Wild Wild West? --- Joaquin Menchaca wrote: > I was thinking of maybe developing that into a wild > west region with more steam-punk-gnomish inventions > and stuff, so more modern guns, but have some checks > and balances, e.g. harness to get to civilization in > the region, to make sure the inventions don't leak > out > to mainstream. The DM can at some point introduce > firearms and steam-powered items to the rest of the > world, or keep it isolated. Firearms (flint lock or similar) can be introduced to a campaign without disturbing the setting as long as they are expensive. 3E has good and balanced mechanics for them IMHO. For the other gnome inventions, perhaps it is better if they are as much a hazard as they are useful, as they are in Dragonlance. One way of ensuring this is making even the simplest device be gigantic in size with loads of bells and whistles and flashing lights, just because Gnomes like it that way. This is pretty much in line with Top Balista too. For the Adri Varma Plateau, I use the material from the Orange Silver Princess, though the actual Palace is located in Haven, Karameikos; the one on the Plateau is just a ruin, possibly connected to the other one though. Still, that stuff can be ignored, or since the module only details part of the Plateau the rest of it remains free to develop on your own. There are quite a few suggestions on pandius.com for what other things populate the Plateau too though. Håvard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:42:30 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Wendarian history Thib! Send me a copy if you want :) Håvard --- Thibault Sarlat skrev: > I know it's not Wendar , but it's regional anyway. > I have almost finished my HK Gazetter... > I lack specially made drawings and illustrations., > and > maybe a text or two. > > I have not been able to respect the 96 pages format, > i > have about 120 - 150, but the more the merrier !! > > I can send a preview copy of it to those willing to > take a peek... > > thib > > --- Geoff Gander wrote: > > > On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 12:03:54 +0300, Ville V Lahde > > > > wrote: > > > > >Thanks for the timeline, Geoff. My original > > campaign is slowly moving > > >towards a climatic stage, and a lot of the action > > will take place in > > >Wendar and the Northern Wildlands. Your material > > and the discussion in > > >MMB will be useful then. > > > > Glad it will be useful to you, then! Once the > next > > segment of the timeline > > is posted, a wide range of adventuring > opportunities > > should be readily > > apparent. > > > > >It would be nice if someone created a coherent > text > > from the discussion > > >on Thorfinn's map. > > > > That's actually what seems to be happening. Thorf > > has compiled all the > > posts into one file, and, using an old outline > some > > of us put together > > years ago when we set out to write a Wendar > > Gazetteer (and didn't get very > > far...), it looks like something is going to be > > taking shape. > > > > Geoff > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > Thibault SARLAT > a.k.a Clenarius > www.mystara.fr.st > ICQ 16622177 > MSN Messenger: clenarius@hotmail.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 08:01:17 -0400 From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Most essential Prcs? I don't think that any of them are essential. I've been playing 3rd edition and 3.5 for a few years now, and I've never seen a prestige class worth playing. Prestige classes and, IMO, restrictions on base classes like the ones that have been proposed here are basically removing the best and most innovative parts of 3rd edition ... the flexible and simple character creation options. I tend to play fighters, and because of the way that 3.0/3.5 classes, feats, and skills work, no two fighters have been similar. There's no need for prestige classes, IMO, and they're really tough to playtest to make sure that they're balanced. The flavor of Mystara doesn't need to be "legislated" (ie, no dwarven wizards because some 30 year old rule system didn't allow them). If someone wants to play a Dwarven Wizard from Rockholm ... okay, let them. However, they're probably the only one, which means that they're going to be viewed with a lot of suspicion at home and might not be allowed back. Also, there's about a zero percent chance of them having a mentor, sso they don't have any way to learn new spells between levels. I'm just curious as to this list's obsession with creating rules and restrictions about things that don't need rules or restrictions. Realistically, the most interesting aspects of Mystara can be easily recreated by a DM who spends about 10 seconds thinking about things. This was pretty much the topic that killed the Mystara 3E project a few years ago, whether the project should involve a slavish represention of an old rule system by creating artificial limitations on 3E or whether the project should focus on describing Mystara with 3E rules. Bruce's original idea was the second, but the project quickly morphed into the first. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Havard Faanes" To: Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 7:21 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] Most essential Prcs? > What PrCs need to be created for Mystara/the Known > World, and which of these would be the most essential > ones? > > Some ideas: > > GLANTRI: > Radience Mage > Secret Craftswizard > > DAROKIN: > Guild Merchant > > KARAMEIKOS: > Knight of the Griffon > > FIVE SHIRES: > Halfling Sherrif > Master (Keeper of Blackflame) > > ALFHEIM/WENDAR: > Elf Lord > Elf Wizard (Archmage?) > Treekeeper > > NORTHERN REACHES/NORWOLD > Wise Woman > Odin's Raven > Runemaster > Berserker > > MINROTHAD/IERENDI > Merchant Prince > Sea Mage > Pirate (Maybe use the Freeport Pirate) > Sea Captain (Also something usable in Freeport) > > THYATIS > Gladiator (Perhaps as Core Class?) > > ETHENGAR > Horse Warrior (Ranger variant Core class) > Shaman (Druid variant Core Class) > Bortak (Rogue variant Core Class) > > SHADOWELVES/AENGMMOR > Shaman (Shadowelf Cleric variant core class) > > HELDANN > Heldannic Knight > > ROCKHOME > Disciple of Kagyar > Forgekeeper > > YLARUAM > Desert Druid/Dervish (Druid Core class variant) > > Anything else? > > Håvard > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 05:37:04 -0700 From: Ray Allen Subject: Re: Most essential Prcs? I agree. the Mystara 3E project was killed by the amazing restrictions that the project owners placed upon the project. They tried to codify exactly 'what is Mystara.' They tried for a unified view and had extensive documentation on how to convert the setting. What a bad idea! None of the fans of Mystara have the same point-of-view about 'what is Mystara.' --Ray. --- John Hofmann wrote: > This was pretty much the topic that killed the Mystara > 3E project a few > years ago, whether the project should involve a slavish > represention of an > old rule system by creating artificial limitations on > 3E or whether the > project should focus on describing Mystara with 3E > rules. Bruce's original > idea was the second, but the project quickly morphed > into the first. WAG, BFC, EBT..... Shortlines are the most interesting! ---------------------------------------------- If you have to choose between books and computers, there's no doubt which you should choose. You should choose books. --Bill Gates of Microsoft ---------------------------------------------- Geek Code: GLS$ d- s:+ a C++ UL++++ P? L++ E---- W++ N+ o-- K- w--- O? M- V-- PS+++ PE Y PGP- t+ 5-- X+++ R++ tv-- b++ DI- D---- G-- e+++ h--- r+++ y+++ ---------------------------------------------- Warriors and Wizards OGL Rules http://home.psknet.com/allenr/Dark_Coast.html ---------------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:45:33 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Most essential Prcs? --- John Hofmann wrote: Hi John! As I see it, you are commenting on two separate (though connected) issues. > I don't think that any of them are essential. I've > been playing 3rd edition > and 3.5 for a few years now, and I've never seen a > prestige class worth > playing. Prestige classes and, IMO, restrictions on > base classes like the > ones that have been proposed here are basically > removing the best and most > innovative parts of 3rd edition ... the flexible and > simple character > creation options. I tend to play fighters, and > because of the way that > 3.0/3.5 classes, feats, and skills work, no two > fighters have been similar. > There's no need for prestige classes, IMO, and > they're really tough to > playtest to make sure that they're balanced. So far I have been doing the same thing, running campaigns with Core Classes only and sticking to the Core Books only. I dont agree that PrCs neccesarily should be seen as restrictions only. I think they should be seen as awards for playing certain types of characters. This can be a bad thing, though if the PrCs are strongly tied to the setting, they will only promote such characters, which IMHO can be good, unless it is overdone. Also, a few game mechanical issues are perhaps best solved in 3E as PrCs such as the Demihuman Relic Keepers and the Glantri Secret Crafts. Others can perhaps be ignored. OTOH, I agree with you that creating PrCs is really hard and a pain in the butt to playtest. For low-level campaigns this rarely comes into play anyway since you usually have to be at least lvl 6+ to even start taking a PrC. > The flavor of Mystara doesn't need to be > "legislated" (ie, no dwarven > wizards because some 30 year old rule system didn't > allow them). If someone > wants to play a Dwarven Wizard from Rockholm ... > okay, let them. However, > they're probably the only one, which means that > they're going to be viewed > with a lot of suspicion at home and might not be > allowed back. Also, > there's about a zero percent chance of them having a > mentor, sso they don't > have any way to learn new spells between levels. This is how I play it too. As I see it adding rules to restrict is bad, but adding the occational feat or whatnot as a bonus to add setting flavor is a good thing, although again moderation is a virtue. I'm interested in hearing other people's views on these things too. :) Håvard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:57:25 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Most essential Prcs? --- Ray Allen skrev: > I agree. the Mystara 3E project was killed by the > amazing restrictions that the project owners placed > upon > the project. They tried to codify exactly 'what is > Mystara.' They tried for a unified view and had > extensive documentation on how to convert the > setting. > What a bad idea! None of the fans of Mystara have > the > same point-of-view about 'what is Mystara.' True. In the future I look forward to seeing more of "this is how *I've* converted Mystara" type articles, both on the discussion forums and on the websites (pandius already does this). That was also what I intended for this thread, though perhaps the word "essential" gave the wrong connotations... Håvard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 10:04:10 -0700 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Mystara Wild Wild West? One of my fondest memories of a princess was the module of Princess of = Caldwell Keep. Unfortunately the group assaulted the hidden base like a = SWAT team took out the two side kill rooms on either side of the entrance = and proceeded to blow away the enemy. The module is designed for stealthy = characters to sneak in and steal the princess away. The party entered the = base with a lot of explosive incedinaries such as Lava Grenades and "Fire = in the hole!" shouts. Needless to say the creatures aren't set up in the = adventure for that kind of assault. It was fun, and the PCs had a great = time too. Oh yeah, the princess was rescued in a classic Hostage situation.= =20 JK Wolf This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:37:10 -0300 From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes - USP Solar" Subject: Re: is list alive? Good way to think. I never realised it till now. Vini At 00:26 20/8/2005, you wrote: > I distinctly remember members of this list worrying about Wizards having > dropped Mystara from their list. It was with rejoice they put up the > Mystara Message Board on their site. Ignoring the MMB would be telling > Wizards we don't care about Mystara anymore. Something I don't think this > group wants to suggest. So let's keep both active. > > JK Wolf > > >>> au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA 08/19/05 05:28pm >>> > On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:28:18 -0300, Vinicius R. de Moraes - USP Solar > wrote: > > >Why don't we try to dicipline ourseleves and use only THIS list? IMHO > >checking 2 places instead of only one does not do any good. > > While I try to use this List as often as possible, there are some occasions > where the format of what is being discussed does not always lend itself to > a newsgroup - such as maps. That said, I think the main reason why there > seems to be a lot of traffic on the MMB at the moment is that there are a > handful of hot topics that happened to have been started there, and inertia > tends to prevent their moving over here. > > The solution, of course, is to toss around some ideas here. So: > > Does anyone have any neat home-brew modules that they would be willing to > share? > > Any new monsters, spells, character classes, races? > > Any thoughts on my most recent post? Would you like to see more of that > sort of thing (in-game props to add more realism to the game, and to > provide potential fodder for further adventures)? > > Geoff > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. > If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by > return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. > Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:24:09 +0100 From: Jon Cole Subject: Re: Mystara d20: Classes > Also, IMHO, the Druid core class is an idead Quick and > Dirty replacement for the Ethengar Shaman and the > Athruagin Shamani if you dont want to take the time to > create a new fully fledged class(es) for these > characters. > The Spirit Shaman class in the Complete Divine fits most of the Shamans quite well - I'm using it for the perculiar Ierendian beliefs as well :-) Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 18:34:59 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Mystara d20: Classes --- Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > OTOH, the Druids were quickly expanded to cover > low-level characters, even though it was only a brief > mention in the Ierendi Gaz. There were also "rules" for druids from 1st level onwards in Gaz7 (as clerics of Frey/Freya) and in the WotI book, IIRC. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 18:48:04 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Most essential Prcs? --- Havard Faanes wrote: > What PrCs need to be created for Mystara/the Known > World, and which of these would be the most > essential ones? You know, I came up with a list on the MMB a while back, but can't seem to find it (darn disabled search function!!!) Anyway, here's that list- I think it's the same. This one just covers the Known World (Gaz) nations, for the most part, not the IoD, Alphatia, Sind, or elsewhere (for which I can think of several ideas for each): Prestige Class Source Agent of the DDC Gaz11 Alchemist Gaz3 Blue Eel Gaz9 Bratak (?) Gaz12 Brotherhood of the Grey Lady DotE Brother of the Radiance Gaz3 Clan Blackflame Keeper Cyclopedia Clan Forgekeeper Cyclopedia Clan Treekeeper Cyclopedia Cryptologist Gaz3 Darokin Guild Merchant Gaz11 Death Master Gaz3 Dracologist Gaz3 Elementalist Gaz3 Eye of Krondar Gaz12 Eye of the Serpent Gaz13 Fist of Khan Gaz3 Hattian Storm Soldier DotE Hin Master Gaz8 Keshak Horsewarrior Gaz12 Knight of the Air DotE Magian Fire-Worshipper Gaz2 Merchant-Prince Gaz9 Minion of Atzanteotl Gaz10 Order of the Arrow Gaz2 Order of the Griffon Gaz1 Order of the Lance Gaz2 Order of the Mace Gaz2 Order of the Pike Gaz2 Order of the Sands DDA2 Order of the Spell Skirmisher Gaz2 Phantasmer/Illusionist Gaz3 Ravenguard Berserker Gaz7 Retebius Skyrider DotE Second Shadow Scout Gaz13 Sister of the Sword DotE Wing of Vanya DDA2 Witch Gaz3 Some of these may not necessarily need PrCs, and some can be made by adapting existing PrCs (the Order of the Sands gladiator, for instance, would be perfectly suited to use the Gladiator PrC in Sword & Fist- just add some descriptive campaign flavor text to it). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 22:46:44 -0400 From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Mystara d20: Classes The Robrenn druids introduced in the dragon issue covering that realm had rules for druids from 1st level. That issue also covered druidic knights, similar to paladins or avengers. I'm not sure how much of that was retained in the SC/Red Steel products that came out later, but I really liked the unique flavor described in that article. I have it stored away somewhere... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Theisen" To: Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Mystara d20: Classes > --- Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > > > OTOH, the Druids were quickly expanded to cover > > low-level characters, even though it was only a > brief > > mention in the Ierendi Gaz. > > There were also "rules" for druids from 1st level > onwards in Gaz7 (as clerics of Frey/Freya) and in the > WotI book, IIRC. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 28 Aug 2005 to 29 Aug 2005 (#2005-170) ****************************************************************