Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Oct 2005 to 4 Nov 2005 (#2005-203) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 05/11/2005, 19:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 3 messages totalling 393 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Mystara Ponderings IMC (3) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 11:55:47 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Mystara Ponderings IMC Some thoughts on various factors of Known World society IMC. Just trying to make things make a bit more sense.... Technology IMC the technological level of Mystara’s Known World countries AC 1000 is defined mostly by the D&D 3.5 Equipment List. This is equivalent of most European Countries around 1500 AD. Firearms have not yet been invented, though the extensive use of crossbows and longbows have been reducing the role of the Heavily Plated Knight as the ultimate battle field weapon. This level of technology is found in most Known World countries in spite of some of them having cultural similarities to earth countries of other periods. Cultural preferences may affect the choice of weapons, though just as often, economical factors determine this. Short swords and light armor is the standard equipment of the Thyatian Legions, not only because of their culture, but because high quality weaponry of this type is cheap to produce in the large amounts required for the Empire’s enormous forces. Likewise Heavy armor is unpopular in the Northern Reaches because it is expensive and because it hinders movement in the rugged terrain of those lands. Athruagin is an exception here, since those peoples have limited knowledge of metal working and have to a great extent isolated themselves from the surrounding lands. Magic Although powerful magic exists in the Known World, it is not something possessed by everyone. Magic is gathered in the hands of small groups of society, and most peoples lives are similar to that of Earth around 1500s in the terms of living standards, communication, travel etc. Warfare also tends to be focused on mundane means, and although some countries like Glantri would have an advantage when it comes to employing magic in a defensive or offensive strategy during war, mages usually end up equally distributed on each side, thus reducing their impact in such situations. Air Travel Air Travel is significantly less common than some official sources would suggest. Magical Air ships exist, but the countries in possessions of such (Heldann, Alphatia being major ones) do not have large fleets of such vessels. The ones existing are also usually in the possession of individuals rather than countries and do not necessarily serve any particular national interest. Serraine has no Biplanes in spite of rumours. The gnomes have plans for making such devices, but experiments have not proved to be successful. It will take them at least a few centuries to make effective prototypes. Flying mounts and lesser flying devices are more common. Thyatis does not have a dragon cavalry however. Dragon riders are extremely rare. Much more common are Wyverns (Thyatis), Pegasi (Ethengars), Griffins(Elves) and Hippogriffs (Darokin, Karameikos), as are devices like flying Brooms (Glantri), Flying Carpets (Ylaruam, Sind, Hule), Boots of Flying (Thyatis, Karameikos, Darokin), Hot Air Baloons (Serraine). Thoughts? Håvard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 17:37:21 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Mystara Ponderings IMC Havard Faanes ha scritto: > > Technology > IMC the technological level of Mystara’s Known World > countries AC 1000 is defined mostly by the D&D 3.5 > Equipment List. This is equivalent of most European > Countries around 1500 AD. Firearms have not yet been > invented, though the extensive use of crossbows and > longbows have been reducing the role of the Heavily > Plated Knight as the ultimate battle field weapon. Weapon-wise, the nature of the terrains and economies found in the Known World make plate armored knights less useful: 1) Armies tend to be large -- Thyatis and Darokin can probably field armies in the range of 50.000 or more men, making plate armor too expensive -- it must be custom-built for each wearer, while lighter armors can be "mass-produced" for such large armies (reducing the potential size of your army to 1/10, maybe); 2) The Kw is crossed by a long mountain chain (the Altan Tepes/Cruth/Makkres group), and features large patches of other terrain types that are not suited for knights -- forests, deserts and marshlands. The only region where knights would work at their best are the Thyatian mainland and the Darokin heartland, and even there the presence of large walled cities reduced the usefulness of cavalry. Add magic (Glantri, Alphatia, Ylaruam) and longbow/crossbow use (elves, dwarves), and you get really little benefit from fielding an army of knights. The HK are a different issue -- they have large resources, but cannot form large armies, because their home nation is largely populated by people that, if armed and trained, would turn on them. So their best option is to concentrate money on armoring the comparatively fewer Heldannic Knights as much as they can rather than training large numbers of infantrymen/archers. > Athruagin is an exception here, since those peoples > have limited knowledge of metal working and have to a > great extent isolated themselves from the surrounding > lands. Atruaghin has an Spell of Preservation-like nature, so its technology is locked at whatever age they currently are. On the other hand, dwarven technology is somewhat more advanced than the average, even though this has little impact on the KW at large. > Magic > Although powerful magic exists in the Known World, it > is not something possessed by everyone. Magic is > gathered in the hands of small groups of society, Not certain on this one. Glantri sees widespread use of magic, which makes life more XX century-like than in other regions (with magic lamps, magic-powered gondolas and the like widely available, at least to the rich). Even Ierendi features a magic-powered restaurant, and magic-steampowered ironclads! This may not be apparent in the common folk's life, but it becomes a significant factor in courts, in warfare, and in politics. Some nations are clearly more magic-reliant than others, even in warfare -- Glantri's army includes many mages. Of course, that's nothing compared to Alphatia's Imperial Boltmen (W1 and E1 with standard-issued wands of lightning!) Of course this means that also traditionally non-magical nations will come up with some countermeasures, e.g. Ylaruam focused on mounted archers and mounted mages as a way to counteract the mage-troops of Alphatia. Also, aerial warfare is quite popular -- from Serraine's WWI fighters to Thyatis' RAF & Knights of the Air to Volospin's "dragonflies" to the HK's Luftflotte to the Alphatian yachts and man-o-wars. Many other nations also have the magic/technology for flight, they just haven't had reason for widespread/military adoption -- e.g., Sind/Hule (flying barges -- and on another line they've got tanks!), Rockhome (there is some dwarven flying contraption somewhere in the GAZ, even if it's not supposed to work properly). With WotI or X10, or with other scenarios (e.g., Myoshiman invasion), it's quite likely that Mystaran powers would start military buildups, including skyships. > Air Travel Air Travel is significantly less common than some > official sources would suggest. Of course, downtoning it is an option, though that would make some official events much less likely -- e.g., a minor (and low-level) prince such as Haldemar would not own a skyship, if there were only a dozen or so skyships in Alphatia, as they would be strategic national assets, and Eriadna would never let Haldemar go into exile with the ship -- the few ships would be personal possession of the Kings or the members of the Grand Council, and they wouldn't give them up more than they would give up ring of wishes or other powerful and rare magic items. On the same line, the HK would not risk several of their few warbirds in battle with Haldemar, since warbirds would be more useful as scouting/fast transport crafts than as warships. Anyway, as usual, both extremes are easily obtained from canon sources, so it's up to the individual DM to find his own Mystara -- be it a WWI world with storms of biplanes and zeppelins bombing the Master's panzer divisions (the Juggernauts) and Heldannic Warbirds engaging Alphatian Man-o-wars over the Sea of Dawn, or a 1500-like world where biplanes are just odd plans in the mind of some gnomish Leonardo da Vinci. Bye, GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 15:07:53 -0400 From: Steven Carter Subject: Re: Mystara Ponderings IMC I always kept magic as an awesome force that frightens everyone. IMC mages did not have schools that people who were smart could go to.=20 The exception being Glantri. Magic is kept secret in small cabals, cults and circles. Wizards police society ensuring that noone is teaching the high art and science to everyone. Wizards, by mutual agreement, don't take on large numbers of apprentices. When wizards took to the battlefield though their primary worry wasn't other wizards or magic users - it was assassins. Or even before they entered a battlefield. A prince or king's court could be full of would-be assassins. Mine was a Mystara campaign so firearms were appropriately restricted. The crossbow and longbow were deadly to most types of plate armour but there was always someone who had a stronger or enchanted suit that made normal weapons ineffective. Knights, mounted or not, were an elite force. Most armies were peasant with minimal light arms and armour because it was cheap and kept them mobile. This made most PCs have the appearance of being an elite force to all peasa= nts. I have given a few Glantrian, Alphatian and Dwarven cities gaslight and gas-fired cooking, heating, hotwater and forced hot-air. But only the richest get these luxuries. Not all of Glantri City would be so finely appointed. Alchemy does not replace pharmacy for the common populace. A king or prince might have an alchemical pharmacist and their family and trusted advisors may benefit from it. There might be one or two in large cities for the rich to benefit from but it would be by invitation or reference only. The common people are lucky to live to 50 years. I've never, ever used skyships or winged-beast riders although the PCs knew they existed. I never had to define how many or how common it was. Karameikos might have had ten winged beasts. Alphatia might have had 48 skyships of various sizes. Magic on the battlefield for the soldiery I never used. Glantri and Alphatia kept common soldiers. None but officers were entrusted with magical devices. Alphatia used humanoid slave legions and beasts as well. The rank-and-file on occassion would be given a "grenade" potion or a potion of healing or strength to use at the appropriate moment. And if it wasn't used they'd check all the survivors. On 11/4/05, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > Havard Faanes ha scritto: > > > > Technology > > IMC the technological level of Mystara's Known World > > countries AC 1000 is defined mostly by the D&D 3.5 > > Equipment List. This is equivalent of most European > > Countries around 1500 AD. Firearms have not yet been > > invented, though the extensive use of crossbows and > > longbows have been reducing the role of the Heavily > > Plated Knight as the ultimate battle field weapon. > > Weapon-wise, the nature of the terrains and economies found in the Known > World make plate armored knights less useful: > 1) Armies tend to be large -- Thyatis and Darokin can probably field > armies in the range of 50.000 or more men, making plate armor too > expensive -- it must be custom-built for each wearer, while lighter > armors can be "mass-produced" for such large armies (reducing the > potential size of your army to 1/10, maybe); > 2) The Kw is crossed by a long mountain chain (the Altan > Tepes/Cruth/Makkres group), and features large patches of other terrain > types that are not suited for knights -- forests, deserts and > marshlands. The only region where knights would work at their best are > the Thyatian mainland and the Darokin heartland, and even there the > presence of large walled cities reduced the usefulness of cavalry. > > Add magic (Glantri, Alphatia, Ylaruam) and longbow/crossbow use (elves, > dwarves), and you get really little benefit from fielding an army of > knights. > The HK are a different issue -- they have large resources, but cannot > form large armies, because their home nation is largely populated by > people that, if armed and trained, would turn on them. So their best > option is to concentrate money on armoring the comparatively fewer > Heldannic Knights as much as they can rather than training large numbers > of infantrymen/archers. > > > Athruagin is an exception here, since those peoples > > have limited knowledge of metal working and have to a > > great extent isolated themselves from the surrounding > > lands. > > Atruaghin has an Spell of Preservation-like nature, so its technology is > locked at whatever age they currently are. > > On the other hand, dwarven technology is somewhat more advanced than the > average, even though this has little impact on the KW at large. > > > Magic > > Although powerful magic exists in the Known World, it > > is not something possessed by everyone. Magic is > > gathered in the hands of small groups of society, > > Not certain on this one. Glantri sees widespread use of magic, which > makes life more XX century-like than in other regions (with magic lamps, > magic-powered gondolas and the like widely available, at least to the ric= h). > > Even Ierendi features a magic-powered restaurant, and magic-steampowered > ironclads! > > This may not be apparent in the common folk's life, but it becomes a > significant factor in courts, in warfare, and in politics. > > Some nations are clearly more magic-reliant than others, even in warfare > -- Glantri's army includes many mages. Of course, that's nothing > compared to Alphatia's Imperial Boltmen (W1 and E1 with standard-issued > wands of lightning!) > > Of course this means that also traditionally non-magical nations will > come up with some countermeasures, e.g. Ylaruam focused on mounted > archers and mounted mages as a way to counteract the mage-troops of > Alphatia. > > Also, aerial warfare is quite popular -- from Serraine's WWI fighters to > Thyatis' RAF & Knights of the Air to Volospin's "dragonflies" to the > HK's Luftflotte to the Alphatian yachts and man-o-wars. > Many other nations also have the magic/technology for flight, they just > haven't had reason for widespread/military adoption -- e.g., Sind/Hule > (flying barges -- and on another line they've got tanks!), Rockhome > (there is some dwarven flying contraption somewhere in the GAZ, even if > it's not supposed to work properly). > > With WotI or X10, or with other scenarios (e.g., Myoshiman invasion), > it's quite likely that Mystaran powers would start military buildups, > including skyships. > > > Air Travel > > Air Travel is significantly less common than some > > official sources would suggest. > > Of course, downtoning it is an option, though that would make some > official events much less likely -- e.g., a minor (and low-level) prince > such as Haldemar would not own a skyship, if there were only a dozen or > so skyships in Alphatia, as they would be strategic national assets, and > Eriadna would never let Haldemar go into exile with the ship -- the few > ships would be personal possession of the Kings or the members of the > Grand Council, and they wouldn't give them up more than they would give > up ring of wishes or other powerful and rare magic items. > On the same line, the HK would not risk several of their few warbirds in > battle with Haldemar, since warbirds would be more useful as > scouting/fast transport crafts than as warships. > > Anyway, as usual, both extremes are easily obtained from canon sources, > so it's up to the individual DM to find his own Mystara -- be it a WWI > world with storms of biplanes and zeppelins bombing the Master's panzer > divisions (the Juggernauts) and Heldannic Warbirds engaging Alphatian > Man-o-wars over the Sea of Dawn, or a 1500-like world where biplanes are > just odd plans in the mind of some gnomish Leonardo da Vinci. > > Bye, > GP > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Oct 2005 to 4 Nov 2005 (#2005-203) ***************************************************************