Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 8 Nov 2005 to 9 Nov 2005 (#2005-207)
From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system <LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Date: 10/11/2005, 19:00
To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion

There are 5 messages totalling 243 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. Air fleets in Mystara
 2. Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara (3)
 3. Mystara Ponderings IMC

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Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 2005 11:53:33 EST
From:    Alex Benson <Alex295@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Air fleets in Mystara

Giampaolo Agosta
<<Thyatis /is/ trying to capture Serraine (with no success at PC time). The Flying City doesn't seem to fly over Alphatia, so probably the Alphatians aren't aware of it.>>

The key word is "trying". PC and Gaz era works are set up resources. In some ways, Thyatis's trying to takeover Serraine falls into the Cold War scenario between Alphatia and Thyatis. Even if the RAF is detailed in its least numerical terms, then even that should be able to overwhelm the gnomes' air defenses. So basically, it would be theirs for the taking if they really wanted it. If I remember correctly, Serraine was taken over in one of the Net Almanacs. I'm uncertain how that was resolved, if it was.

<<Not that many, unfortunately. There's the base in Thyatis, which houses 125 RAF "pilots", but the main base at Retebius is said to be as large as 1/2 of the city itself (15.000 people). However, this doesn't help much -- large monsters (dragons, rocs), certainly require much space.
The RAF is said to be as important as the navy, army, and cavalry, but given that the size of the three are quite different, this doesn't help much. Certainly the 1000 estimate seems too low, if the 125 RAF airmen in Thyatis are considered a small detachment.>>

Really? I thought that there were some numbers given. Maybe its the way the force is portrayed, as you stated above, to be as important as the navy, army, cavalry. That and it was singled out for mention in the DoTE Box. So it does hold some premium place in the Thyatian Gaz Era warmachine.
<<Regarding Alphatia, the sources (PWA, CoM, and DotE) seem to disagree. PWA says that the Alphatian (Floating Ar-an, actually) skyships are basically longships and galleys; CoM gives an "Age of Sail" version, with men-of-war, brigantines, schooners and sloops. DotE gives a WWII version, with aircraft carriers -- indeed, there's even a picture of the Alphatian aircraft carrier!>>

Don't forget the "Into the Maelstrom" flying vessels as well. But you're onto soemthign with the "Age of Sail vs. Longships" styles of vessels. I think alot of that comes from the development of the setting. Alphatia has 2000+ years of history. Thyatis is 1000+. Several Mystaran nations advanced rather quickly as they were detailed in the Gazs. Anyway, I tend to go with Alphatian Imperial Fleets consisting of various types of skyships. Militarily, it makes sense to have a variety of vessels. Smaller craft are used for scouting and patrols. Man-o-Wars are the assault vessels, with Marines and artillery to ludicrous numbers. Medium vessels assist in bomabardment. I would also assume that some medium or large vessels are used as troop transports, as opposed to juggernaut Man-o-Wars, to reinforce the assault once a "beachhead" is secured.

<<IMO, CoM is the best source, while PWA can be safely ignored.
OTOH, it would be useful to keep at least the aircraft carrier from DotE.
One idea could go as follows: Alphatians are known to have perfected the art of building wind-powered skyships. However, during the wars with the Thyatians, their ships suffered from a sort of "Death Star effect" -- they're big and powerful, but a one-man fighter can easily penetrate their defences and strike them down with a well-placed dragon breath or meteor storm or whatever the Thyatians have to hurl at the Alphatian Men-of-War and brigantines.
No matter how advanced these skyships are, any dragon/griffon/pegasus will easily outmanoevre them.
So the Alphatians need some kind of smaller, non-wind-powered flying craft to use as interceptor.
So, they've built a few (2-5) carriers, which they are equipping with various more-or-less experimental troops -- from pegasus-riders and pegataurs from Floating Ar to "Dragonfly of Doom"-like flying golems.
They send one of these carriers to the SpillWorld only because that's the only way to carry the Thyatian RAF pilots and Knights of the Air.>>

The problem is that we are basically speculating. What limited information is given revolves around the attempt to create a sense of balance. Basically, a magic oriented branch of the Alphatian military is stated. To balance things, Thyatis is given the RAF, Knights of the Air, and the Thyatis City Air defenses. The sad thing is that neither really showed themselves in WotI; ex. the Alpher Fleet was torched as a scripted plot point. As far as the "Death Star" analogy, I think that is pretty broad and general. The Death Star had no apparent support vessels. I think thta a WW2 era Assault Task Force is a better analogy. I'd have to run the numbers but I believe that a Man-o-War can absorb the breath weapon damage of a dragon. Likewise, a few dozen boltmen formed up and firing their wands at the mounted riders would put up a decent umbrella of magical "ack ack". Then there are the more experienced spellcastign officers. Remember also that DotE has an entire section on mounted aerial combat that notes potential problems, weaknesses, etc. As I said above, I'd have to dig out the sources and run some numbers.
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Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 2005 18:11:46 +0100
From:    Giampaolo Agosta <agathokles@KATAMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara

Joe Mason ha scritto:
>
> Perhaps a dragon nation is allied to Thyatis and agrees to provide
> "troops" (NOT mounts!) solely because of the mutual hatred of Alphatia.
>  After WotI, with Alphatia destroyed, they would part ways more-or-less
> amicably because the threat is gone.

Nice idea, indeed. Who could he be? Khanistar? Druuwmet?

GP

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Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 2005 15:48:54 -0400
From:    Steven Carter <steven.f.carter@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara

Why would it have to be a dragon nation? Please note that I don't have
a clue what Khanistar or Druuwmet are.  But a dragon nation - that's a
good start though. Could it be an organization of dragons who have
vested interests in a particular balance of power?  Would dragons on
Brun generally be against Alphatian magogracy for some reason? Are the
Brun dragons aligned against an organization of Alphatian dragons?

Okay, I'm rambling now.

On 11/9/05, Giampaolo Agosta <agathokles@katamail.com> wrote:
> Joe Mason ha scritto:
> >
> > Perhaps a dragon nation is allied to Thyatis and agrees to provide
> > "troops" (NOT mounts!) solely because of the mutual hatred of Alphatia.
> >  After WotI, with Alphatia destroyed, they would part ways more-or-less
> > amicably because the threat is gone.
>
> Nice idea, indeed. Who could he be? Khanistar? Druuwmet?
>
> GP
>
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Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 2005 20:59:15 -0500
From:    Joe Mason <joe@NOTCHARLES.CA>
Subject: Re: Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara

Steven Carter wrote:
> Why would it have to be a dragon nation? Please note that I don't have
> a clue what Khanistar or Druuwmet are.  But a dragon nation - that's a
> good start though. Could it be an organization of dragons who have
> vested interests in a particular balance of power?  Would dragons on
> Brun generally be against Alphatian magogracy for some reason? Are the
> Brun dragons aligned against an organization of Alphatian dragons?

I'd just heard the term "dragon nation" and figured that several hundred
dragons all working together in a military capacity would probably
qualify.  I don't actually know much about the subject, I was just
throwing it out as an idea.

Joe

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Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 2005 20:36:54 -0800
From:    Chris Cherrington <sr596bear@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Mystara Ponderings IMC

>> Depending on how you play out WotI or Red Arrow, one of these or both would be the catalyst to bring "modernization" to Mystara.  Karameikos would be ripe for taking on that roll as well as the Dwarves with the after effects of their civil war could put a lot of their experiments to practical use as a neccesity.
>
> That's a very good idea.
>
Thanks, ;-)

The bulk of the work would be presented to the new School of Magecraft.  Also, with Ludwig gone, the Shires may be very helpful in sharing their knowledge with Karameikos in helping them rebuild the decimated economies.  The Shires with all their surplus produce won't be able to feed Darokin and they may be unwilling to help Thyatis with their feeding burden as well.  A couple of enterprising Hin would be very smart indeed to show some of their new elven friends in Karameikos on how to build such new and possibly magicaly enhanced machinery to help them stave off starvation.  Stefan could have seen a large influx of Darokinians escaping the Master, Thyatians escaping conscription or starvation, and elves needing new homes.  Stefan could have asked the Shires to help him build new windmills and other such devices in return he would help them stomp out Ludwig's evil plans.  With the new devices, Stefan would have been able to keep starvation from decimating his ranks, and kept his war machine going incase Thyatis thought ill of his recent coronation to King.  Having Karameikos being a new surplus provider because they have better farming yeilds with fewer farmers to take the work load would make Stefan a very big player in the world market.  The DDC would have never seen it coming.

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End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 8 Nov 2005 to 9 Nov 2005 (#2005-207)
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