Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 24 Jan 2005 to 25 Jan 2005 (#2005-21) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 26/01/2005, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 11 messages totalling 421 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. slaves of the Known World (3) 2. Humanoid [Canine] (2) 3. Ezechiel Naramis (incomplete) (2) 4. Greetings from an old friend (4) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 13:03:59 +0100 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: Re: slaves of the Known World Steven Carter wrote: > But that's just my opinion. I see Ochalea as having been little more > than a puppet/client state of Thyatis since the betray and conquest > despite the Empress's (Valentia???) Citizen's Proclamation. Mmm I didn't included ochaleans as possible slaves because the nation entered more or less willing in the Thyatian empire, even if was later occupied. In RW history, IIRC, the populations that joined willing the Roman empire as socii (allies) were never enslaved nor, AFAIK, sold some of their people to the romans. But obviously it's possible that ochaleans of the cities sold and still sell some ochaleans of the internal regions to thyatian slavers, particullary if in Ochalea exist different ethnicities like aborigenal oriental-like people, alphatian descended, thyatian descended and so on, as I supposed on the list some time ago. BTW, Ochalea is pretty big, so could be absolutely logical if on the island there are still many stone age, bronze age or early iron age peoples and tribes in the internal and remote regions. Something similar happens and happened in RW Indonesia, Malesia and many other nations of South-East Asia, and in China too. bye Francesco ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Cellulari: loghi, suonerie, picture message per il tuo telefonino http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mobile.yahoo.com/index2002.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 06:35:53 -0800 From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" Subject: Re: Humanoid [Canine] --- Morten Greis wrote: > > When it comes to the classifying of the humanoid > types in Mystara, what else > might there be? > Humanoid [Goblinoid]: goblin, hobgoblin, bugbear, > ogre? > [Leonine]: Rakasta > [scaled]: Lizardman, Gator man, Tortle etc.? > Ogres is tough one. In the core rules ogres are giants and not goblinoids. In Mystara Ogres were part of the humanoid migrations (as well as Orcs) so I assume they too are descendants of the beastmen race created by Hel. I like better diffrentiation between all the humanoid races but if you want to stick to Mystara canon I think Orcs and Ogres are also part of the goblinoid super-family. Trolls are not IIRC trolls came into the broken lands from the east probably as a result of the dwarves and norsemen increased power. Morphail (it has been so long, you might say I am back!) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 06:45:38 -0800 From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" Subject: Re: Ezechiel Naramis (incomplete) --- Andrew Theisen wrote: Beautiful! I guess what you need is some game statistics. And also, this certainly can go in the GPD website. Is the opening to the shadow elf caverns still active after the meteor? Morphail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:50:37 +0100 From: la Volpe Subject: Re: Greetings from an old friend Welcome back Thorfinn! If I remember correctly, you left shortly before or after I joined (around september 1999)...those that still are here after so many years are a consistent amount...I can recall that at the time Ohad/Morphail was there, as well as Geoff Gander, Andrew Theisen, Marco Dalmonte, Shawn Stanley, Jenni Merrifield, Hervè Musseau, Thibault Sarlat, James Mishler; I think that Giampaolo "Agathokles" Agosta and the Stalker joined more or less when I did, am I right? I cannot remember wheter Jacob Skytte and Damon Brown/Brendan Corliss were already on the List... ...anyone I'm forgetting? Is John Calvin still on the list, and was he at the time? Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ___________________________________ Nuovo Yahoo! Messenger: E' molto più divertente: Audibles, Avatar, Webcam, Giochi, Rubrica… Scaricalo ora! http://it.messenger.yahoo.it ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:51:07 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Greetings from an old friend la Volpe wrote: > Welcome back Thorfinn! One of the Old Ones reappearing! Welcome back! > If I remember correctly, you left shortly before or > after I joined (around september 1999)...those that > still are here after so many years are a consistent > amount...I can recall that at the time Ohad/Morphail > was there, as well as Geoff Gander, Andrew Theisen, > Marco Dalmonte, Shawn Stanley, Jenni Merrifield, Hervè > Musseau, Thibault Sarlat, James Mishler; I think that > Giampaolo "Agathokles" Agosta and the Stalker joined > more or less when I did, am I right? My first contribution (Saimpt Malinois) was on November 1998 (I subscribed in September, IIRC). BTW, you may see everyone's earlier (recorded) post in the authors page in the Vaults of Pandius. > I cannot remember > wheter Jacob Skytte and Damon Brown/Brendan Corliss > were already on the List... More or less they started posting at the same time as you did. Bye, -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:28:13 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: slaves of the Known World This topic was explored a couple of years ago, and is still in the Vaults. I put a large population of Ochaleans as slaves, they entered willingly into the Empire, but were assimilated by Ochaleans willing to enslave their enemies to the Thyatians willing to bolster their influence. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:39:56 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: slaves of the Known World I think you have to look at the role of slavery within each culture. The given material is mostly weak and vague. I mean, it's slavery. I started to write up some stuff on slavery some time back. Like alot of my projects, it got sidelined for some reason or another. Anyway, here goes a summerized version working from memory. For ease of sanity, I'll insert a "IMC" before all of this. Alphatia- Heavy handed slavers where slaves are property pure and simple. Slaves are more of a luxury within a society filled with commoners and magics. Slave treatment varies from owner to owner and based upon the role that the slave fills in its owner's household. Alphatian slave stocks have slowed from outside sources. The Jennite Lands being a key exception. Most slaves are the offspring of existing slaves. Many slaves bear Alphatian traits from generations of breeding within Alphatian owner/households or other mixed groups. Common roles: Concubines, menial labor, specialized labor, household servants. Thyatis- Heavy dependance upon slave labor for civil projects and household servants. Slaves are given as quite inexpensive and in great abundance, allowing widespread slave ownership, easier slave emancipation (high turnover rates). Slaves are protected by Slave Laws intended to prevent the worse cases of abuse. Slave sources are vague and undermined by a stagnant Thyatian military expansion of late as well as "gracious terms" to peoples such as the Hinterland Clans. As far as the other slave cultures, I am going to defer to others on those. My memory tells me that these were mostly minor slave populations. I beleive one of the northern Brun nations abolished slavery durign the PWAs. However, I do think that much of their slavery details can be easily explained by devising the role of a slave. While slavery is not a bright point in a campaign, it does offer plot potential and motivation for the PCs. Using slavery can be as underhanded as Arena of Thyatis, where the PCs are enslaved to fight in the arena. Torenal and Thincal both rose from slave status (also inadvertantly offering details to Thyatian and Alphatian slave systems). I believe it is stated in the DotE Box that slavery is a tool to be used though shouldn't be glorified. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:20:06 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Ezechiel Naramis (incomplete) --- "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" wrote: > I guess what you need is some game statistics. > And also, this certainly can go in the GPD website. That, and I need to flesh out his "Web of Intrigue". Have some things working in those regards, so will post the 1.1 version soon. > Is the opening to the shadow elf caverns still > active after the meteor? Hmmm... hadn't thought about this at all. I'd imagine there are probably, if anything, even more openings to the shadow elf caverns now. When I did the Great Crater Gazetteer way back when, my research showed that the crater probably reached that far down (somewhere it was said that it was like 5 miles deep) and so the bottom-most layers should be, if not in the SE caverns, only a few hundred feet above it. I'd expect that the SE are going to have to fortify those caverns quite a bit against possible humanoid intrusions- right around (a couple hexes west) of the Caerlinyl River, between the Crater of Sethandor and the Caarlian Wastes. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:22:34 -0800 From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" Subject: Re: Greetings from an old friend Some of the real OLD ONES that I remember from back then and are not here anymore are Jennifer Favia, and a guy called Jamuga Khan. I remember him specifically from the Thyatis-ALphatian flame wars. Those were the days... BTW, I am here from 1996, but I have been on and off and only a few days ago caught up on my messeges... Morphail(Ohad Shaham) > la Volpe wrote: > > > Welcome back Thorfinn! > > One of the Old Ones reappearing! Welcome back! > > > If I remember correctly, you left shortly before > or > > after I joined (around september 1999)...those > that > > still are here after so many years are a > consistent > > amount...I can recall that at the time > Ohad/Morphail > > was there, as well as Geoff Gander, Andrew > Theisen, > > Marco Dalmonte, Shawn Stanley, Jenni Merrifield, > Hervè > > Musseau, Thibault Sarlat, James Mishler; I think > that > > Giampaolo "Agathokles" Agosta and the Stalker > joined > > more or less when I did, am I right? > > My first contribution (Saimpt Malinois) was on > November 1998 (I subscribed in September, IIRC). > BTW, you may see everyone's earlier (recorded) post > in the authors page in the Vaults of Pandius. > > > I cannot remember > > wheter Jacob Skytte and Damon Brown/Brendan > Corliss > > were already on the List... > > More or less they started posting at the same time > as you did. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 08:42:54 +0800 From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Re: Greetings from an old friend I myself am just now getting back on the list. Hello again all! Gecko (Greg Weatherup) GWxup@excite.com Gecko_G@email.com http://members.fortunecity.com/gecko_g/ --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 07:54:06 -0000 From: Jon Cole Subject: Re: Humanoid [Canine] On a side track the bumpf inside the 3.5 Dragpnlance Dm's Screen has some interesting ideas about redesignating monsters through the sub-types (no Orcs, Giants are a sub class of Ogre, as are Dopplegangers etc.) Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Humanoid [Canine] > --- Morten Greis wrote: > > > > When it comes to the classifying of the humanoid > > types in Mystara, what else > > might there be? > > Humanoid [Goblinoid]: goblin, hobgoblin, bugbear, > > ogre? > > [Leonine]: Rakasta > > [scaled]: Lizardman, Gator man, Tortle etc.? > > > > Ogres is tough one. In the core rules ogres are giants > and not goblinoids. In Mystara Ogres were part of the > humanoid migrations (as well as Orcs) so I assume they > too are descendants of the beastmen race created by > Hel. I like better diffrentiation between all the > humanoid races but if you want to stick to Mystara > canon I think Orcs and Ogres are also part of the > goblinoid super-family. Trolls are not IIRC trolls > came into the broken lands from the east probably as a > result of the dwarves and norsemen increased power. > > > Morphail > (it has been so long, you might say I am back!) > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 24 Jan 2005 to 25 Jan 2005 (#2005-21) ***************************************************************