Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 11 Nov 2005 to 13 Nov 2005 (#2005-210) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 14/11/2005, 19:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 3 messages totalling 380 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Air fleets in Mystara (v2) 2. CM1 post WotI (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 13:43:34 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Air fleets in Mystara (v2) Hi all, here is a revised version of the air forces. There are still some missing items -- I'd need information on M2's flying castle, for example. Bye, GP Air Fleets of Mystara Classification I'd divide flying fighting forces into a few categories, with different properties: 1) Skyships (Alphatian Man-of-War, Heldannic Sturmkondor, and the like): they are costly and require much magic, or, in case of Zeppelins, are dangerous, but can carry large number of troops (from a dozen or so to the 600 sailors and marines of the Alphatian Man-of-War, a true flying fortress) and heavy weapons. Useful for long range operations, these ships are able to work on their own for weeks. 2) Airplanes (Serraine biplanes and triplanes, Glantri's Dragonflies of Doom): these are skyships that need only one or two crew members to operate, and may carry no more than a dozen passengers. These skyships need to return to a land base or a carrier ship (currently, only the Alphatian carriers, Floating Ar and Serraine). 3) Air cavalry/infantry (Pegataurs, R.A.F. hippogriff riders, E'ear): these are individual soldiers, either able to fly on their own or carried on a flying mount whose fighting ability is comparable to that of the rider. These troops need to land often, since the flyers tend to get tired. 4) Large flying creatures (Dragons and Rocs, with or without riders): these are large flying monsters, whose fighting ability usually exceeds that of the rider (unless the rider is of very high level); they can be used as fighter/bombers, and have longer range than air cavalry. Outer World Air Powers Heldannic Knights According to Bruce Heard, the Heldannic Order can field 25 Waffenadler and 2 Sturmkondor warbirds. Each Waffenadler has a crew of 60, while a Sturmkondor carries 90 sailors and officers, for a total of circa 1700 members of the Luftflotte. Both types of warbirds fit in the skyship category. Empire of Thyatis Thyatis relies on the Retebius Air Fleet and the Knights of the Air for aerial support. We have no hard numbers, but the Retebius Air Fleet assumed this name when the Retebius Aerial Corps grew to "several hundred warriors"; we also know that a detachment of 125 knights stationed in Thyatis City is considered small, and that one half of Retebius (a city of 15,000) is devoted to landing strips, barracks and stables for the Retebius Air Fleet. So I'd put a lower bound at 1000 units for the R.A.F., while the total air forces of Thyatis would have to be limited so that they cannot overpower the Alphatian aerial defences. Anyway, since the Alphatians were never able to get great advantages from their own aerial forces (including the massive Men-of-War), I'd say that the combined might of the R.A.F. and the Knights of the Air would easily exceed 1000 units in modern times. These are divided between air cavalry, mounted on hippogriffs, pegasi and griffons (85%), and large flying creatures, including sphinxes, rocs and dragons (15%). Thyatis also has the magic necessary to produce "bumber-chutes", so it could potentially create a corps of paratroopers (carried by rocs and large dragons). However, this would be quite costly (more or less, a paratrooper equipment would be as costly as a knight). Thyatis doesn't have skyship technology before WotI, but could acquire it from captured Alphatian dominions after the War. An interesting idea is that the dragons working for the R.A.F. may be members of a draconic kingdom hostile to Alphatia (this can be a kingdom located in the Altan Tepes within the borders of Thyatis, headed by Hytiliaph -- see John Calvin's work on Hytiliaph, or a group of Lung from Ochalea, or even the Wyrmsteeth kingdom itself). These dragons would, for the most part, stay only as long as Alphatia is a threat to Thyatis. After WotI, Thyatis would therefore be left without a dragon riding force (except maybe for a few smaller dragons personally bound to their Knight of the Air riders), and will be forced to turn to Wyverns and other dragon-like monsters to replace these units. City of Serraine The Flying City of Serraine can rely (in addition to the city itself, which acts as an aircraft carrier) on 25 biplanes and triplanes, plus a number of Pegataur fighters (there are circa 120 Pegataurs on Serraine, we could say that 25 could be available as fighters). There are also some Cloud Clippers, which could be used a troop transports. Clearly this is not enough to defend against a full scale assault from Thyatis or Alphatia, so Serraine steers clear of these empires (as well as staying away from other potentially dangerous nations such as Glantri or the Heldannic Territories). Hagiarchy of Hule While the Hulean army relies mostly on giants and juggernauts to achieve supremacy in land battles, the Legions of Doom do include 10 Doomflyers each, with some 60 crewmembers each. Doomflyers are useful as personnel carriers and mobile archery platforms, but carry no heavy weapons. There is no estimate of the number of Legions of Doom (and therefore Doomflyers) available -- only one is used in the invasion of Sind, but more are likely to be available for use on the other borders (I'd say a total of five at least). It is also possible that the Master keeps some larger shyship for ceremonial purposes. After the invasion of Sind, Hule may capture the Barge of Sayr Ulan. Rajahstan of Sind Sind has a single skyship, the Barge of Sayr Ulan, which is mostly an experimental craft. It can be used as an heavy bomber thanks to a lighting bolt weapon, though it is also armed with ballistae and catapults. Alfheim The elves of Alfheim have the ability to build Lightboats, through their clan relics. Moreover, powerful elven wizards also build Swanships. Both types are small crafts, in the range of the airplane type. They are usually unarmed. Ostland Ostland has a single skyship, owned by the pirate Oberack, an ally of the Ostman clan. Therefore, the skyship is not available to the army of Ostland. Empire of Alphatia While Alphatia is the known to be to foremost producer of skyship, we have no data on the number of skyships actually available to the Alphatian Imperial Navy -- the only Alphatian Navy mentioned in canon sources that I know of are the fleet of Floating Ar in the PWA, at the very limited size of 4 ships, and the Alphatian aircraft carrier mentioned in DotE. Champions of Mystara does mention several types of skyships as originally Alphatian designs -- ranging from civilian sloops to large Men-of-War. My estimate is that the Alphatians, pre-WotI may field two or three aircraft carriers, some 20 Man-of-War-sized ships, and a larger number (40+) of smaller skyships (brigantines and schooners), for a total of some 20-30000 airmen, boltmen and marines. Alphatia may be also experimenting with some kind of air cavalry, including pegataurs and pegasus riders. Smaller crafts of the airplane class are used on the aircraft carriers. In times of need, Alphatia can also call upon a large number of civilian sloops and merchant clippers, as well as a number of flying mages. The Kingdoms of Aeryl and Eshu These nations of the Arm of the Immortal are inhabited by flying race. Therefore, their entire armies count as air infantry. The E'ear can field 2200 elves and 220 giant eagles, while the Enduk army is some 3000 soldiers strong. Enduks are short range flyers, so they rely on Naaruks (a type of winged bull golem) for transportation. Each Enduk temple has at least one Naaruk, and each Naaruk can carry up to 10 Enduks, magically merged into its body. Rockhome The dwarves do not have a standing flying force, but are experimenting with the proto-zeppelin -- and since the gnomes of Oostdock are already able to build zeppelins, it is likely that the Skarrad dwarves could make working dirigibles if the need arised. The Principalities of Glantri The Principalities have a secret force of 12 Dragonflies of Doom, designed by Prince Volospin. These airplane golems can be used as fighter-bombers and for fast troops transportations, though they are limited to some 5 passengers. Of course, many individual glantrian mages are able to fly on personal devices or mounts. Shadowelven Territories According to the PWA, the Shadow Elves have a standing air cavalry of 500 units, mounted on skinwings. This puts the Shadow Elves nearly on par with Thyatis, Glantri and the Heldannic Knights. The Broken Lands The Red Orcs train skinwings, much like the Shadow Elves. Skinwing riders are found among the troops of Legion of Thar (25) and the hordes of the Red Orcs (115) and South Gnollistan (40). Khanate of Ethengar Canon-wise, Ethengar doesn't have a flying force. Hovever, given the Ethengarian affinity for horses, it is possible that they will be able to develop a pegasus cavalry. On the other hand, I don't think Ethengar will develop other kinds of air cavalry, since most other flying mounts tend to spook horses (especially hippogriffs and griffons). Royaume de Renardie The Renardois beast-riders may choose the Lupasus as they mount. Moreover, the Louvines Royal Kennel breeds the Lupasaner, a gray Lupasus. It is therefore likely that the Lupins of Renardie have some kind of flying cavalry, probably quite limited in size (my guess, around 100-200 at most). Kingdom of Shazak The Shazak have a flying cavalry mounted on skinwings and giant bats. They have developed it in the last century, so it is unlikely to be very large. Yazak Orc Tribes According to the Savage Coast MCA, orcs commonly keep skinwings as mounts. However, it is not specified whether this refers to Yazak or Dark Jungle (Yazug) orcs. Based on the fact that Dark Jungle orcs cannot be beast riders, I'd say that the skinwing riding orcs are Yazak that live north of Shazak. Kingdom of Denagoth Landrin Teriak, the Shadow Lord, is allied with the Church of Idris and with a pair of dragons, Vitriol and Brulefer. However, the two dragons are rivals, so Teriak has to use them separately. Moreover, Teriak has a number of Wyvern riders, though he uses them more as patrols than as attack troops. The Five Shires While the Five Shires do not have a flying armed force, nor the means to obtain one, a powerful gold dragon queen lives in Wereskalot. She is known for her love of the hin and would probably react to an invasion of the Shires. Hollow World Air Powers Oostdock The gnomes of Oostdock are able to build zeppelins, even though they are not much equipped for war. Shattenalfheim According to the PWA, the Shattenalfen have a flapsail cavalry with 1500 members. Nithia According to the PWA, 100 Hoverships compose the flying fleet of Nithia. They have a limited flight height, so they may be at a disadvantage against more flexible flying troops. Milenian Empire The Milenian Empires keeps a standing elite air cavalry of 100 griffon riders. Other Air Powers Myoshima The Empire of Myoshima can invade Mystara thanks to they flying tiger cavalry. They are likely to have the largest flying cavalry of all, on par with or even greater than the entire Alphatian Skynavy. The Dragons of Wyrmsteeth While the Dragon nations aren't usually involved in Mystaran politics and warfare, a Myoshiman invasion could trigger a reaction from these creatures. The Wyrmsteeth is the largest draconic kingdom on Mystara, and can field up to a thousand of dragons in battle! Other dragons A large number of other draconic kingdoms dot the surface of Brun. Some are known -- the dragon kings of the Known World, Pyre of the Dark Jungle, and possibly the gold dragon of the North-Eastern Wildlands -- but most are still not described. Each could likely field a force equal or superior to most humanoid ones. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:11:15 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: CM1 post WotI --- Giampaolo Agosta skrev: > Yes, the WotI version of Mystara doesn't include CM1 > anyway, since the conflict between Alphatia and Thyatis is moved to > the IoD and then Thyatis itself, while Norwold is marginal. Still, if > there was a nation of thousands of anti-Alphatian dragons in Norwold, > by the end of WotI Alpha would have been attacked. I need to take a look at CM1 again, but perhaps it could be rewritten in the post-WotI period with Heldann taking the role of Alphatia? Ofcourse, that would mean Thyatis would have to get back on its feet and return to its imperialist ways in that region. Or perhaps the struggle instead could be between Heldann(as Thyatis) and Denagoth (as Alphatia)? Thoughts? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:16:20 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: CM1 post WotI Havard Faanes ha scritto: > > I need to take a look at CM1 again, but perhaps it > could be rewritten in the post-WotI period with > Heldann taking the role of Alphatia? Ofcourse, that > would mean Thyatis would have to get back on its feet > and return to its imperialist ways in that region. That, per se, is not really a problem. After the destruction of Alphatia, Thyatis recovers key assets at a quick rate, taking over most of the Isle of Dawn as well as several of the Alatians. If the Alphatian invasion army surrenders after the destruction of their homeland, the Thyatians will alsohave a large amount of military equipment they may use for a campaign in Norwold. > Or perhaps the struggle instead could be between > Heldann(as Thyatis) and Denagoth (as Alphatia)? Denagoth doesn't seem strong enough to conquer or settle Norwold, and has other hostile neighbours to the south and to the west. > Thoughts? The most likely (IMO) setting involves a three way competition. The Thyatian Empire will be trying to reassert themselves in Norwold thanks to their fleet superiority and to the presence of a strong spy network established pre-WotI by Thincol in his planning for the CM1 war. They'll likely try to open friendly relations with Oceansend, capture Ericall while strengthening existing strongholds (Alak Dool and Longtooth's dominions). The Heldannic Knight will expand mostly by moving their border north, taking over Landfall. They'll try to conquer Oceansend, unless the Thyatians arrive there first -- they probably won't push Thyatis to a war, since they don't have the resources to fight it, and Vanya herself has no reason to pit his followers against each other. The actions of the Alphatians will depend on what happens to their empire. With the mainland gone, Zandor will concentrate first on bringing Bellissaria and Esterhold under his control, while Thothia will likely turn inward. Then, Zandor might answer Ericall's call for help, adding first the Yanniveys and Queodar to his empire. Otherwise, Ericall might be supported by surviving Alphatian armies forced out of the Isle of Dawn. Bye, GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 11 Nov 2005 to 13 Nov 2005 (#2005-210) ****************************************************************