Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 15 Dec 2005 to 16 Dec 2005 (#2005-234) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 17/12/2005, 19:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 3 messages totalling 293 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Alphatia: The bad guys ? (3) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:49:59 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Alphatia: The bad guys ? I think a cool thing about Mystara is that any nation can be interpreted either as the good guys or the bad guys. I agree to some extent with what Alex Benson wrote that Aaron Allston mostly focused on the negative sides of the Empire in DotE. However, Bruce Heard did alot IMHO to change that impression, especially with the VotPA series where Thyatis was presented as the bad guys. I like Stevens idea of having a wizard (or other spell caster) sponsor/leader for a party in Alphatia. This role could also easily be filled by an NPC if no PC is suited. Håvard --- Steven Carter skrev: > It's important to differentiate Alphatia's history > of conquest, > destruction and oppression from the Alphatian > people. I think > everyone on the list has a different opinion of what > the relationship > between the wizard-kings and the people and foreign > policy is. And in > your campaign that's very important. It gives you > lots of wiggle room > to make things either very cosmopolitan and flexible > for your players > or making it an oppressive police state. There is > also the fact that > each kingdom is pretty much sovereign. > > One thing you could play with is how to interpret > what a "wizard" is > in Alphatia. If you want to make it a little less > onerous then say a > wizard is only a wizard once they achieve name level > or acquire a > title. If you have a wizard in the party then said > wizard may take > the responsibility for handling the other party > members as vassals, > servants or hirelings. If a wizard is killed by the > party it might > not be so bad if the authorities see that a wizard, > not mundanes, were > responsible. > > > On 12/14/05, John Hofmann > wrote: > > No, you've got it right. They're pretty much > jerks. > > > > However, you are free to reinterpret the country > as more benevolant where > > magic-users run the country with the best > interests of everyone in mind. > > That's actually how we played for decades before > the trash that is Dawn of > > the Empires came out. That set is nice for the > maps, but I know for a fact > > that you can have great Thyatis-Alphatia campaigns > while leaving some of > > that stuff behind. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gilles Leblanc" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 3:40 PM > > Subject: [MYSTARA] Alphatia: The bad guys ? > > > > > > I have had 2 Mystara groups in the past both > running for a number of years. > > After these groups my players wanted something > different so we left Mystara > > for a couple of years. > > > > Now that we are coming back, I wanted to do a > campaign in Alphatia since we > > had largely ignored this part of Mystara, keeping > to the known world, savage > > coast, sind, hule, thanegioth archipelago and some > forrays in the hollow > > world. > > > > In fact we had largely ignored the Thyatian vs. > Alphatian conflit > > altogether. Now the players have rolled their > characters, I told them with I > > remembered about Mystara. I dug up an old quest I > had written for level 1 > > characters. > > > > When I started reading the Alphatia material from > the Dawn of the Emperors > > boxed set I started getting a different picture of > Alphatia than what I > > remembered. I remembered that a lot of conflicts > were nations against > > nation, not the clear cut good vs. evil of other > campaigns. > > > > While Alphatia isn't evil, I'm having a hard time > sympathising with them and > > wonder if my players will too. They want to fight > for the good of the > > empire, but basicly everyone except one of them ( > the mage ) will be second > > rate citizens who can be killed by a magic-user > under threat of a 100 gp. > > fine. They will bear full force of the injust > justice system where a > > commener can be raped by a mage for a 10gp. fine > and where insulting a mage > > merits almost a worse punishment than a mage > killing someone. The player's > > book present Alphatians as treating their slaves > as convicts, commoners as > > slave. > > > > Even the history of Alphatia casts a bad light on > them. It is stated that > > after the Followers of Fire realized the errors of > their way they cast out > > Alphaks who had insurged the violence and then > offered peace to the Air > > Wizards, which refused and destroyed the Alphatian > homeworld, their > > homeworld, out of what seems like spite and then > left. > > > > Considering this is the player's guide, maybe a > more biased history should > > have been presented which shows the Air Wizards ( > the now alphatians ) in a > > better light vs. the Flame Wizards ( the now > Glantrians ). > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:00:26 -0400 From: Steven Carter Subject: Re: Alphatia: The bad guys ? Or, if you're using 3e rules then have every party member take a level of wizard, sorceror or cleric. On 12/16/05, Havard Faanes wrote: > I think a cool thing about Mystara is that any nation > can be interpreted either as the good guys or the bad > guys. In a way I absolutely agree. It depends entirely on the perspective of the player characters. The Shadowelves gaz made that abundantly clear without descending (transcending?) into the comedic like Orcs of Thar. But can the same be said about running campaigns in Denagoth, Black Eagle or Hule? Does the nation become the good guy? Can you say the Master is good and try to root out the heretics and wrong thinkers?=20 Is the Baron von Hendricks just misunderstood and his despotism is the justifiable action any good man would take? I imagine if he were ever brought to trial it would be something akin to Saddam Hussein. I wonder.... A little off topic... I briefly played a Star Wars campaign where all the PCs were Imperial Navy, special forces or intelligence. It was entertaining to take the position of "bringing order to a selfish and chaotic galaxy that doesn't know what is best for itself". I agree to some extent with what Alex Benson > wrote that Aaron Allston mostly focused on the > negative sides of the Empire in DotE. However, Bruce > Heard did alot IMHO to change that impression, > especially with the VotPA series where Thyatis was > presented as the bad guys. > > I like Stevens idea of having a wizard (or other spell > caster) sponsor/leader for a party in Alphatia. This > role could also easily be filled by an NPC if no PC is > suited. > > H=E5vard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:31:15 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Alphatia: The bad guys ? Steven Carter ha scritto: > >> I think a cool thing about Mystara is that any nation >> can be interpreted either as the good guys or the bad >> guys. [...] > But can the same be said about running campaigns in Denagoth, Black > Eagle or Hule? Does the nation become the good guy? Not necessarily, but the average citizen (and lower-rank bureacrat/noble/whatever) of Hule or Denagoth doesn't need to be any more evil than anyone else (Black Eagle is too small, so the Baron's evil directly affects everything in the Barony). So, natives of Hule could perceive themselves as protecting their nation, and the soldiers of Denagoth would not consider their attempts to conquer Wendar as different from the HK invasion of the Heldann Freeholds. Moreover, just like the RW, the fact that someone is openly evil doesn't make everyone else good -- and there doesn't need to be a good guy in every conflict. Indeed, your Star Wars example fits perfectly -- the Emperor is certainly highly evil, but could well be perceived as the saviour of the galaxy, with an appropriate amount of misinformation. On the same line, in Mystara it would be possible for freedom fighters to be labeled as terrorists, and for tyrannical rulers to pose as saviours of the civilization, or, though not as commonly, for evil bandits to pass themselves off as freedom fighters and for just rulers to appear as tyrants. Bye, GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 15 Dec 2005 to 16 Dec 2005 (#2005-234) ****************************************************************