Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 19 Dec 2005 to 20 Dec 2005 (#2005-238) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 21/12/2005, 19:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 7 messages totalling 257 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Spheres and Immortals (6) 2. Vedr. Re: [MYSTARA] Spheres and Immortals ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:34:55 +0100 From: Altair IV Subject: Re: Spheres and Immortals Linking a "real" god to a Sphere, or to any other game rule, is always a tough aim. They are as complex as real men are, and any of you who tried to choose an Alignment for any people in real life knows what I mean A choice should be made, though, and I guess Thought, Energy, or even Matter are all good choices for Thor, and all have some lack. If I were in you, I would be free to change Thor's Sphere as it suited me. As for the Dragons, I don't remember exactly the source you're talking about, but I do think, as someone already said, that Dragons should be dealt with on the same basis as Human, or Demihuman Beings, that is with their own hierachy of Immortals belonging to all Spheres... though a little prevalence of Energy, and maybe Entropy, should fit them better, in my humble opinion Altair IV - the Darkstar ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:28:13 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Vedr. Re: [MYSTARA] Spheres and Immortals --- George Hrabovsky skrev: > In my game dragons have an intrinsic connection to > the world; thus they are within the sphere of matter. That might be what Aaron Allston was thinking when he wrote that thing too. I've never gotten that impression from reading about dragons though. But then again, Classic D&D left alot up to the DM's decision. Håvard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:36:03 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Spheres and Immortals --- Andrew Theisen skrev: > Havard Faanes wrote: > Thor is the Thunder god, right? I assume that's > why they made him an Energy Immortal- or at least > redefined him that way. IIRC, he was originally > presented as an Immortal of Matter (which I for some > reason thought suited him better). Thought is an > interesting choice, though. I guess thats the reasoning behind it. I guess my main problem is that, playing here in Norway, both I and my players have quite strong perceptions about the norse gods. The way I have solved this is to use the Antalian names (Wotan, Donar etc) and this has made the WotI redefinations/interpretations of these entities more acceptable. I have no problem with Donar, the Patron of Lightning to be from the Sphere of Energy. Might even make HIM the Patron of Berserkers, since I associate that attitude with Energy as much as Thought, although Entopy could also be involved here... > As for the Dragon Rulers, I prefer the old Gold > Box interpretation wherein they weren't affiliated > with any of the Spheres, but had a hierarchy of > their own outside the "standard" Immortal system. > (Of course, by that token, I *disliked* the > Draedens' stated affiliation with the Sphere of > Thought, since their description seems to clearly place them outside the Immortal hierarchy as well.) Draedens in the Sphere of Thought never made much sense to me either. If Dragons followed a separate system, shouldnt there be a Draconic Sphere? IMC Dragons are first and foremost creatures of Magic, thus the link towards Energy seemed logical. 3E associates various dragion types with different elements though, so perhaps that could be used as a basis. Actually having Diamond Dragon (Matter), Pearl Dragon(Energy), Opal Dragon(Time) and Great Dragon (Thought) would also be interesting. The uniqueness of the Draconic hierarchy is still preserved in the Ceremony of Sublimination IMHO... Håvard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:39:57 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Spheres and Immortals --- Altair IV skrev: > Linking a "real" god to a Sphere, or to any other > game rule, is always a > tough aim. They are as complex as real men are, and > any of you who tried to > choose an Alignment for any people in real life > knows what I mean Good point. This is why I never liked having the real gods in Mystara in the first place. IMO it is better to have a deity named Wotan who is sort of like Odin, than having one named Odin. I have less of a problem with Immortals like Orcus, Ixion and Thanatos since although they are also from R/W mythologies, it seems quite clear to me that this connection is mostly in name. Also these are minor deities. I was happy when Allston changed the names of Zeus and the other Olympians... Håvard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:10:53 +0100 From: la Volpe Subject: Re: Spheres and Immortals > As for the Dragon Rulers, I prefer the old Gold > Box interpretation wherein they weren't affiliated > with any of the Spheres, but had a hierarchy of > their own outside the "standard" Immortal system. Yeah, me too. I had written a sort of Dragon History that took that in consideration, mixing it with a sort of "Highlander" (the Russel Mulcahy 1986 movie) feel. I'm sure I have it somewhere if someone is interested. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis "It's Specularum, damn it!" (quoting Ironwolf) ___________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 02:13:44 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Spheres and Immortals Havard Faanes wrote: If Dragons followed a separate system, shouldnt there be a Draconic Sphere? Good point. The Spheres have often been interpreted in different ways by different authors (some even having them be places of existence), but fundamentally and originally, it seems to me that the Mentzer concept of them was that they were ideologies that the various Immortals followed, that defined the goals that they attempted to use their Immortal powers to further. In that vein, I liked the idea of the dragons not being a part of the standard hierarchy, but having their own goals, so I suppose it is entirely possible that the dragons ideology could be designated as the Draconic Sphere or something, though I think it is equally suitable not to label it at all (which is what I would label the ideologies of some of the other Immortal level creatures, like the Draedens). To me, the Immortals aren't simply a particular type/magnitude of creature, but are a particular grouping of creatures that are of a certain magnitude- greater than mortals, but with a similar outlook on the way they think and interact. At the same time, there are creatures such as the Draeden and Dragons who, while of similar magnitudes of power, do not share the same outlook and method of behavior, thought, etc. Creatures such as the Outer Beings would also fall into this sort of category. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 02:16:47 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Spheres and Immortals la Volpe wrote: > As for the Dragon Rulers, I prefer the old Gold > Box interpretation wherein they weren't affiliated > with any of the Spheres, but had a hierarchy of > their own outside the "standard" Immortal system. Yeah, me too. I had written a sort of Dragon History that took that in consideration, mixing it with a sort of "Highlander" (the Russel Mulcahy 1986 movie) feel. That would certainly fit- the dragons and their draconic contest (from the Dragons and Giants accessory, as I recall; or maybe from the Bruce Heard dragon article) would fall into the "There Can Be Only One" idea, and their Ceremony of Sublimation definitely resembles a Quickening. Their combats on the mortal plane for dominance would be terrible to behold, I'd bet. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 19 Dec 2005 to 20 Dec 2005 (#2005-238) ****************************************************************