Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Feb 2005 to 3 Feb 2005 (#2005-29) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 04/02/2005, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 6 messages totalling 497 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Forests of Mystara: evergreen or deciduous? 2. Newbie guide 3. Faenare vs Raptorals 4. Jade for Jade statues 5. Let's Help Geoff Come Up with some PreGens... 6. One other thing.. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 23:21:40 +0900 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Forests of Mystara: evergreen or deciduous? When GAZ3 was made, they had created the forested hills hex, but evergreen forest hexes weren't invented until a few years later. GAZ6 Rockhome, GAZ7 The Northern Reaches, GAZ11 Darokin and the Dawn of the Emperors boxed set all also suffered from this, as did the Hollow World set. It seems that HWR3 The Milenian Empire was probably the first appearance of evergreen forest hexes. This leaves the question of exactly which forests in these countries/locations are evergreen, and which are deciduous. We can derive some answers to this question from the books themselves, which sometimes talk about forests in their "Geography of" sections. Wrath of the Immortals dealt with this to some extent with its 24 miles per hex map, showing us that the forests of the Northern Reaches, Heldann and Wendar are fully evergreen. It also shows the northern Darokin forest (next to the Broken Lands) as well as Glantri's forests (what little show up on a 24 mile per hex map, that is) as evergreen. Rockhome's forests are too small to show up on the map. Lastly, the forests of the main Alphatian continent are entirely evergreen. Champions of Mystara continues this by showing the edge of Hule's Darkwood as being (mostly) evergreen. Finally, Poor Wizard's Almanacs I and III show us the divide between deciduous and evergreen on the Isle of Dawn, Bellissaria and Western Skothar. Poor Wizard's Almanac II shows us Hule's Darkwood and the Isle of Dawn again, while leaving the Northern Reaches with deciduous trees - presumably a mapping error. Conclusions: Glantri Page 7 of GAZ3 explains in detail the types of trees that grow in Glantri. Basically, the trees of Erewan and Belcadiz are oak, while the rest are mostly a mix of evergreen trees. Combined with the information from the Wrath of the Immortals map, we can safely say that aside from the Elven oaks, all of the forests marked on Glantri's 8 mile per hex map are evergreen. Rockhome Page 47 of GAZ6 tells us about Rockhome's trees, but it is somewhat ambiguous. It says that Rockhome's mountains are heavily forested, mostly with pines, but for the lowlands it fails to mention the type of tree. Considering Rockhome's latitude, it could go either way, but it seems that it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that most of Rockhome's forests are evergreen, and to mark Rockhome's forest hexes as such. The Northern Reaches Page 8 of GAZ7 suggests that the slopes of the Makkres and Hardanger Mountains are covered in conifers, while the rest of the forests are mixed conifer-broadleaf forests. It sounds like these forests could be marked as either deciduous or evergreen - it could go either way. Wrath of the Immortals marked them as evergreen. Darokin I couldn't find any information in the Darokin Gazetteer about forest types. If we are to take Wrath's map at face value, then it would appear that the Broken Lands' Black Hills, and adjoining hills in Darokin, are coniferous forested hills. Alphatia I couldn't find any evidence in Dawn of the Emperors about forest types, though I may have missed something as there is a lot to look through. The altitude would seem to support most of the continent's forests being evergreen, as the Wrath of the Immortals map suggests. The Hollow World The only Hollow World map with evergreen forests marked on is HWR3 The Milenian Empire. In the far south of Milenia, forests change to predominantly conifers. The altitude of this area, a little north of the city of Laroun, would imply that the lands southwest of Lake Agrisa and all the lands on the south Sea of Yr have coniferous forests. Also the forested area enclosed by mountains southeast of Hapta in the Nithian Empire is likely evergreen, though the climate of south Nithia probably means that the forests around Lake Thufu are deciduous. It's important to remember that with the Hollow World, though, that climate and seasons are far less related to latitude than on the Outer World; it seems often cultures have had their climate "localised" specially in order to suit their original Outer World conditions. In the north, the Antalian Wastes, the Beastmen Wastes and all the lands north of the Azcan Empire probably have coniferous forests. But this is just a guess based on those cultures and the latitude. Inconsistencies Wrath of the Immortals' 48 mile per hex map incorrectly places an evergreen forest southwest of Akesoli, bordering the Atruaghin plateau. Firstly, there is not much of a forest here according to the other sources we have for this area - including Wrath's own 24 mile per hex map! Secondly, it seems marginally too far south, going by the evergreen-deciduous separation line as it seems to apply to the rest of the Known World. A Final Note During my research for this article, I had to take a closer look at some tree related words that it turns out I really didn't know half as well as I thought I did. My father set me straight, as follows: - Deciduous trees are those which lose their leaves every year in autumn. - Evergreen trees are those which have green leaves all year round. They do lose their leaves, and they get replaced by new ones, but it's not a yearly thing. - Coniferous trees, or conifers, are those which grow cones for seed distribution. In other words, deciduous and evergreen are effectively opposites, while either can be coniferous. Thus, for example, a quick check of my Oxford Dictionary tells me that larches are deciduous coniferous trees. (That example was the source of my initial confusion.) In fact, most conifers are evergreen, and that's why they are sometimes used as synonyms. However, it's more correct to talk about evergreens and deciduous trees. That's all for now. I intended to get this posted hours ago, but the research combined with some distractions made it take far longer. So - any comments, corrections or suggestions? Thorfinn ============================================ Thorfinn Tait --------- thorf @ chokai.ne.jp Land of the Rising Sun, 5 years and counting ============================================ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:50:53 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Newbie guide I do remember your name Jeff, but as I said, I didnt follow all of the discussions too closely back then. I think one of the weaknesses with the group was its strict focus on compromise. Everyone had to agree upon one way of conversion, rather than allowing for several alternatives and posting them all on a website, allowing whoever downloaded the file to chose. If you still have your 3e files around, I'd love to take a look at them, even though you, as you say, have made some unusual choices along the way... Håvard --- Jeff Heikkinen skrev: > Havard Faanes wrote: > > > I never participated much on the [Mystara 3E] > list, mainly because > > I didnt have enough time, but also because I was > one > > of those people who didnt care much for converting > the > > whole OD&D feel over to Mystara. > > Maybe you dimly remember me from there, or maybe you > don't. I fought a > couple of aspects of the "0E Feel" you talk about, > and finally quit in > frustration, feeling that my views weren't getting a > fair hearing. The > person who was ultimately calling the shots didn't > seem to listen to any > of the active participants except Julian and trying > to convince Julian > of anything was like talking to a brick wall. > > The last straw was their incoherent compromise on > the planes, which > actually mangled BOTH the Mystara source material > and the 3E canon - not > because I disliked it (though I did, intensely) but > because after that, > the "benevolent dictator" of the list invited > further discussion, I > spent multiple hours on a message which I sent to > that individual, and I > never got a response. Sigh... > > But if it wasn't the planes, it would only have been > something else. I > have since accomplished about as much by myself as > the group ever did, > though my stuff won't be usable by the average > Mystara fan (for example, > it makes heavy use of Arcana Unearthed - the Flaems, > for example, are > Verrik, not humans). I'm not surprised to hear the > group is even more > dead than it was when I quit. > > > > --- "john@johnhofmann.com" > > skrev: > > > >>This is exactly what was happening. There were > too > >>many people involved > >>and almost everyone on the the project was trying > to > >>cram 3rd edition into > >>the confines of the boxed set rules. There was > just > >>a fundamental divide > >>between whether the limitations of the basic DnD > >>rules were more important > >>or the flexibility of 3rd edition. > >> > >>As the owner of the Mystara 3e group, I still get > >>email whenever someone > >>posts, and I get email maybe 3 times a year now. > It > >>was a project doomed > >>to fail almost from the start. > >> > >>Original Message: > >>----------------- > >>From: Havard Faanes havardfaa@YAHOO.NO > >>Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 16:49:41 +0100 > >>To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >>Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Newbie guide > >> > >> > >> --- shawn stanley wrote: > >> > >> > >>>a quick and easy mystara d20. calling the mystara > >> > >>3E > >> > >>>team ... > >> > >>Yeah... > >>That is something I'd love to see. The 3e team has > >>done some great things, but it seems like the > >>projects > >>have been scattered too much all over, and that > the > >>group has been concentrating too much on altering > >>every part of 3.5 to fit with Mystara, whereas I'd > >>be > >>interested in something "quick and dirty"... > >> > >>Håvard > >> > >>===== > >> > >> > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > > >>The Other Worlds Homepage: > >>http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > >>The Mystara Homepage: > >>http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > >>To unsubscribe, send email to > >>LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >>with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > >> > >> > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>mail2web - Check your email from the web at > >>http://mail2web.com/ . > >> > >> > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > > >>The Other Worlds Homepage: > >>http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > >>The Mystara Homepage: > >>http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > >>To unsubscribe, send email to > >>LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >>with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > >> > > > > > > ===== > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 16:54:58 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Faenare vs Raptorals Looking at Wizard's freebies for Races of the Wild, I came a cross the Raptorals at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050106b&page=1 These guys seem pretty similar to the Faenare from PC3. With a few modifications, such as no hands and making their Favored Class into Bard you'd more or less have the Faenare! What do you think? :) Håvard ===== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:57:18 -0000 From: Jon Cole Subject: Jade for Jade statues A bit off the wall but... I was looking for what type of rocks you find Jade in to try and work out the geology of the Lost Valley of H, and randomly found http://www.salem-antiques.co.uk/green_aventurine.htm which describes Indian Jade - which is actually a type of Quartz with Chromium as an impurity Seeing as at least 2 living statue types are made of quartz, I'm tempted by the idea that Jade Statues are actually made out of this mineral as well (for those who care its harder than [Chinese] Jade and [Aztec] Jadeite.) Alas as Quartz seems to be found everywhere, it didn't really help me with the geology thing, though I have some ideas to hammer out ;-) Jon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 16:01:57 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Let's Help Geoff Come Up with some PreGens... Hi all, Here's a (hopefully) new idea to chew on, perhaps it could spark further projects, too. In a few months, I'm going to be running an OD&D game at the local Con. Of course, it will be set in Mystara (huzzah!). This will be the first time in almost two years that I will have had anything more to do with our favourite world than write the occasional article - needless to say, I'm really looking forward to it. I've decided that I'll be running an adventure that I ran for my own campaign a couple of years ago - it's set in Darokin, near Dolos, in a little village called Pendleton. The actual dungeon part is done - I've got the map, the big monsters, that sort of thing. The plot's there, too (see below). Synopsis (potential spoiler alert) ********************************** Basically, goblins are menacing the village of Pendleton - they've been a problem before, but nothing too terrible to deal with. Now, however, they are more organised, and they are capturing the young men and women and carting them off to who-knows-where. Older folks say that "them old troubles is startin' up agin, jes' like they did back in '07 or thereabaouts." Few pay them any heed, dismissing the tales as old stories designed to frighten children. The people are afraid, and the headman needs help - desperately. Cue the PCs, who learn about the trouble, do some investigating, go to the ruined Abbey, and deal with the problem (hopefully). ************************************ Soooo...where I am is that I could use a few ideas for pregenerated characters. I could do them myself, certainly, but there are a lot of creative people here, and you may be able to help me create a session that will be all the more memorable because of the PCs. Plus, you would be helping me save some time. Needless to say, those who help me will be credited appropriately in the final product (which, after the Con, will likely be submitted to OD&DITIES or a similar publication). That said, here is what I would be looking for: -level range of 4-6 -preferably no evil alignment -human, elf, dwarf, gnome, or halfling (other race acceptable with appropriate backstory - i.e., why are they in pastoral Darokin?) -all OD&D classes acceptable - even those in the GAZ series and Dragon -allowed 3-4 magic items, no plus greater than +2* -basic personality description (motivation, etc.) -background a plus, but nationality is fine * That's an idiosyncracy of mine - I generally don't believe in having PCs whose pockets bulge with magical goodies. Having said that, if you can justify why the PC in question has more than 3-4 items, go for it! :-) Anyhow, if anyone here is interested in helping me out, I'd like to thank you in advance. I see this also as a creative exercise, with the PCs created possibly being added to the NPC roster on the Vaults. So, thank you all for reading this! :-) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 16:09:41 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: One other thing.. I forgot to mention... The adventure will use up to six PCs. If I get more than that, I'll be jumping for joy, but that means I'll choose from among the group to create a party that is reasonably compatible and balanced. Everyone will still get credit, though. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Feb 2005 to 3 Feb 2005 (#2005-29) *************************************************************