Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 3 Feb 2005 to 4 Feb 2005 (#2005-30) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 05/02/2005, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 7 messages totalling 552 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Forests of Mystara: evergreen or deciduous? (6) 2. Faenare vs Raptorals ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:12:00 +0100 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: Re: Forests of Mystara: evergreen or deciduous? Thorfinn Tait wrote: > Glantri's forests (what little show up on a 24 mile per hex map, that > is) as evergreen. Just for similarity with RW places, I would like some Glantri forest to be partially deciduous. (Averoigne and Caurenze at least a bit similar to France and Italy and so on) BTW As far as I know most of the evergreen trees grow up in mountains. I've been in Holland, and there, even if It's quite a northern nation, a lot of trees are deciduous. So I believe that Heldann and Glantri flat or hill lands, and Alphatia too, should have deciduous and not evergreen trees.... Italy for example has maritime pine trees or cypresses (warm climate evergreens) on the coasts, but many more deciduous trees too (lemon tree, nut tree, chestnut and many more), deciduous trees on plains and hills (oak, poplar) and evergreen forests only in the mountains (firs, larches). I believe Glantri and Darokin could be something like this (probably more similar to France than Italy anyway) while Heldann lands should be similar to Germany (who has many kinds of deciduous trees). Rockhome could be mostly evergreen as Switzerland or Austria. > Alphatia > I couldn't find any evidence in Dawn of the Emperors about forest > types, though I may have missed something as there is a lot to look > through. The altitude would seem to support most of the continent's > forests being evergreen, as the Wrath of the Immortals map suggests. I don't think so, the south and the centre should be quite warm and are quite flat, so I believe evergreens should be the minority of trees in those areas. > The Hollow World > The only Hollow World map with evergreen forests marked on is HWR3 The > Milenian Empire. In the far south of Milenia, forests change to > predominantly conifers. The altitude of this area, a little north of > the city of Laroun, would imply that the lands southwest of Lake > Agrisa and all the lands on the south Sea of Yr have coniferous > forests. Also the forested area enclosed by mountains southeast of > Hapta in the Nithian Empire is likely evergreen, though the climate > of south Nithia probably means that the forests around Lake Thufu are > deciduous. Anyway IIRC there are many evergreen conifers that live well in warm climates, not only in mediterranean area but in south america too... Hollow world could have some of those trees too.... > So - any comments, corrections or suggestions? Your post was very interesting and useful, BTW! You gave me some ideas :-) bye Francesco ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Cellulari: loghi, suonerie, picture message per il tuo telefonino http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mobile.yahoo.com/index2002.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 02:08:50 -0800 From: Thibault Sarlat Subject: Re: Forests of Mystara: evergreen or deciduous? I hate you Thorfinn for making me wonder if i have to make all my maps again with new hexes (that i already have but not used)...[Sound of Thib banging his head on the desk repeatedly] I do agree that is is legitimate question and that canon maps were full of errors, but maybe we could just keep the old common tree hexes and just depict the types of forest on the text sections. That way we leave it to the DM and its own campaign needs. Good remarks Thorfin (i don't hate you, and i am happy to see you back..) --- Francesco Defferrari wrote: > Thorfinn Tait wrote: > > Glantri's forests (what little show up on a 24 > mile per hex map, that > > is) as evergreen. > > Just for similarity with RW places, I would like > some Glantri forest to be > partially deciduous. (Averoigne and Caurenze at > least a bit similar to > France and Italy and so on) BTW As far as I know > most of the evergreen trees > grow up in mountains. I've been in Holland, and > there, even if It's quite a > northern nation, a lot of trees are deciduous. So I > believe that Heldann and > Glantri flat or hill lands, and Alphatia too, should > have deciduous and not > evergreen trees.... > Italy for example has maritime pine trees or > cypresses (warm climate > evergreens) on the coasts, but many more deciduous > trees too (lemon tree, > nut tree, chestnut and many more), deciduous trees > on plains and > hills (oak, poplar) and evergreen forests only in > the mountains (firs, > larches). I believe Glantri and Darokin could be > something like this > (probably more similar to France than Italy anyway) > while Heldann lands > should be similar to Germany (who has many kinds of > deciduous trees). > Rockhome could be mostly evergreen as Switzerland or > Austria. > > > Alphatia > > I couldn't find any evidence in Dawn of the > Emperors about forest > > types, though I may have missed something as there > is a lot to look > > through. The altitude would seem to support most > of the continent's > > forests being evergreen, as the Wrath of the > Immortals map suggests. > > I don't think so, the south and the centre should be > quite warm and are > quite flat, so I believe evergreens should be the > minority of trees in those > areas. > > > The Hollow World > > The only Hollow World map with evergreen forests > marked on is HWR3 The > > Milenian Empire. In the far south of Milenia, > forests change to > > predominantly conifers. The altitude of this > area, a little north of > > the city of Laroun, would imply that the lands > southwest of Lake > > Agrisa and all the lands on the south Sea of Yr > have coniferous > > forests. Also the forested area enclosed by > mountains southeast of > > Hapta in the Nithian Empire is likely evergreen, > though the climate > > of south Nithia probably means that the forests > around Lake Thufu are > > deciduous. > > Anyway IIRC there are many evergreen conifers that > live well in warm > climates, not only in mediterranean area but in > south america too... Hollow > world could have some of those trees too.... > > > So - any comments, corrections or suggestions? > > Your post was very interesting and useful, BTW! > You gave me some ideas :-) > bye > Francesco > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Cellulari: loghi, suonerie, picture message > per il tuo telefonino > http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mobile.yahoo.com/index2002.html > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== Thibault SARLAT a.k.a Clenarius www.mystara.fr.st ICQ 16622177 MSN Messenger: clenarius@hotmail.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 02:16:03 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Forests of Mystara: evergreen or deciduous? --- Francesco Defferrari wrote: > Just for similarity with RW places, I would like > some Glantri forest to be partially deciduous. > (Averoigne and Caurenze at least a bit similar to > France and Italy and so on) BTW As far as I know > most of the evergreen trees grow up in mountains. Glantri is a mountainous place, though. It's situated in the valleys of some of the highest mountain ranges in the Known World, and should (IMO) be at a considerably higher altitude than say, Darokin. It used to be called the Highlands, after all. That being said, I think that just about anything could be found in Glantri. The lands of Blackhill, for instance, are mentioned in the Gaz to be magically altered to produce some prime farmland- land that produces larger than usual vegetation. So deciduous forest and/or evergreens may very well be found anywhere you please in Glantri. > I've been in Holland, and there, even if It's quite a > northern nation, a lot of trees are deciduous. True, but isn't Holland largely a low-altitude country? I think most of it is at or near sea level, IIRC, which would have a major effect on the type of vegetation growing there. > So I believe that Heldann and Glantri flat or hill > lands, and Alphatia too, should have deciduous and > not evergreen trees.... Not sure about Heldann. I think it's largely a low altitude country- it slopes down to the sea, at least. Probably deciduous forests near the sea, turning into evergreens as the land rises up to the mountains with Denagoth. Alphatia is probably a large mixture of the both. Like Glantri, though, the prevalence of magic could seriously impact what sort of flora is found there. > Anyway IIRC there are many evergreen conifers that > live well in warm climates, not only in mediterranean > area but in south america too... Hollow > world could have some of those trees too.... I think it is primarily an altitude thing, from what I know. For instance, the forests in Sedona, Arizona are evergreen/pine forests, despite the fact that Arizona is a warm climate state. The difference is that those forests are located in a high altitude part of the state (in mountains) where there is a much cooler climate than in the low altitude portions of the state. You find deciduous trees as you get lower. Speaking of which, Arizona, IMO, provides a really interesting case study of varying (often widely) ecological features within a relatively small geographic region. As noted, there are high mountain forests and cool climates, lower level deciduous forests and warmer climates, and desert regions (with cacti and other typical desert flora). It's one of the most ecologically diverse states in the US, for sure. And though the deserts there are nowhere near the sort of "Sahara" like sandy wastes you'd find in say, Ylaruam, it still makes it a little easier to swallow the idea of a Ylari desert on the other side of a mountain range from the Northern Reaches (which are also at a higher altitude than Ylari, IIRC. The Ylari desert is a basin, from what I remember.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:51:19 +0100 From: "Alleblas, Bart" Subject: Re: Forests of Mystara: evergreen or deciduous? RE: [MYSTARA] Forests of Mystara: evergreen or deciduous?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Theisen [mailto:jsmill@WANS.NET]
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 11:16 AM
> To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
> Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Forests of Mystara: evergreen or deciduous?
>
>
>
> > I've been in Holland, and there, even if It's quite
> a
> > northern nation, a lot of trees are deciduous.
>
> True, but isn't Holland largely a low-altitude
> country? I think most of it is at or near sea level,
> IIRC, which would have a major effect on the type of
> vegetation growing there.

True, all region that are near to the sea have deciduous trees,
mainly due to the effects of the warm gulf stream passing through the
north sea. All eastern regions have more of a land-climate and have more
pine forests. The difference is caused by differnces in avarage temparature
and the humidity of air.


>
> > So I believe that Heldann and Glantri flat or hill
> > lands, and Alphatia too, should have deciduous and
> > not evergreen trees....
>
> Not sure about Heldann. I think it's largely a low
> altitude country- it slopes down to the sea, at least.
> Probably deciduous forests near the sea, turning into
> evergreens as the land rises up to the mountains with
> Denagoth.
>
> Alphatia is probably a large mixture of the both. Like
> Glantri, though, the prevalence of magic could
> seriously impact what sort of flora is found there.
>
> > Anyway IIRC there are many evergreen conifers that
> > live well in warm climates, not only in
> mediterranean > area but in south america too...
> Hollow
> > world could have some of those trees too....
>
> I think it is primarily an altitude thing, from what I
> know. For instance, the forests in Sedona, Arizona are
> evergreen/pine forests, despite the fact that Arizona
> is a warm climate state. The difference is that those
> forests are located in a high altitude part of the
> state (in mountains) where there is a much cooler
> climate than in the low altitude portions of the
> state. You find deciduous trees as you get lower.
>
> Speaking of which, Arizona, IMO, provides a really
> interesting case study of varying (often widely)
> ecological features within a relatively small
> geographic region. As noted, there are high mountain
> forests and cool climates, lower level deciduous
> forests and warmer climates, and desert regions (with
> cacti and other typical desert flora). It's one of the
> most ecologically diverse states in the US, for sure.
> And though the deserts there are nowhere near the sort
> of "Sahara" like sandy wastes you'd find in say,
> Ylaruam, it still makes it a little easier to swallow
> the idea of a Ylari desert on the other side of a
> mountain range from the Northern Reaches (which are
> also at a higher altitude than Ylari, IIRC. The Ylari
> desert is a basin, from what I remember.)
>
> ********************************************************************
> The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp
> The Mystara Homepage:
> http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx
> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.
>

------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:32:40 -0800 From: Brendan Corliss Subject: Re: Forests of Mystara: evergreen or deciduous? --- Andrew Theisen wrote: > --- Francesco Defferrari wrote: > > I've been in Holland, and there, even if It's > quite > a > > northern nation, a lot of trees are deciduous. > > True, but isn't Holland largely a low-altitude > country? I think most of it is at or near sea level, > IIRC, which would have a major effect on the type of > vegetation growing there. Not sure if this helps or hinders the discussion but... I live in Seattle, which is pretty much at sea-level, and alot of the trees - even at the lowest elevation here - are evergreens. Granted, we're pretty far north (as far as the U.S. goes), but the climate is fairly mild. I'm not sure why this is the case but there are certainly other factors other than altitude and latitude. -Damon Brendan Corliss Corliss Enterprises, Ltd. Darokin City ===== May all your endeavors be Gold! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:19:11 -0800 From: Ray Allen Subject: Re: Forests of Mystara: evergreen or deciduous? Brendan, I think I can answer why your climate is that way. I learned this about ten years ago in a Climatology so forgive me if it's not quite right. I haven't thought about this since then. You're climate is a result of the Pacific ocean winds coming ashore. This gives you a Mediterranean climate and makes the Olympic Mountains a Temperate Rain Forest. Not that you don't have the broad leaf trees in your area but evergreens do seem to like that type of climate better. Here's two links that I quickly googled..... http://www.nps.gov/olym/edurain.htm http://www.mediterraneangardensociety.org/climate/ --Ray. --- Brendan Corliss wrote: > I live in Seattle, which is pretty much at sea-level, > and alot of the trees - even at the lowest elevation > here - are evergreens. Granted, we're pretty far north > (as far as the U.S. goes), but the climate is fairly > mild. I'm not sure why this is the case but there are > certainly other factors other than altitude and > latitude. ===== If you have to choose between books and computers, there's no doubt which you should choose. You should choose books. --Bill Gates of Microsoft ---------------------------------------------- Geek Code: GLS$ d- s:+ a C++ UL++++ P? L++ E---- W++ N+ o-- K- w--- O? M- V-- PS+++ PE Y PGP- t+ 5-- X+++ R++ tv-- b++ DI- D---- G-- e+++ h--- r+++ y+++ ---------------------------------------------- Don't tell me the RIAA are a bunch of hypocritical, dishonest bastards! Now I have nothing left to believe in. (www.slashdot.org) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:10:24 -0800 From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" Subject: Re: Faenare vs Raptorals Funny, my response didn't go through. I was just saying that the Faenere are a little on the lame side... The Raprorians seem like a cool alternative. BTW- did anyone do a conversion for the Nagpa? Now there is a great critter from PC3! Ohad(Morphail) Shaham --- Havard Faanes wrote: > Looking at Wizard's freebies for Races of the Wild, > I > came a cross the Raptorals at > http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050106b&page=1 > > These guys seem pretty similar to the Faenare from > PC3. With a few modifications, such as no hands and > making their Favored Class into Bard you'd more or > less have the Faenare! > > What do you think? :) > > Håvard > > ===== > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 3 Feb 2005 to 4 Feb 2005 (#2005-30) *************************************************************