Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 4 May 2005 to 5 May 2005 (#2005-92) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 06/05/2005, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 7 messages totalling 668 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. weekend holidays? 2. MYSTARA-L Digest - 3 May 2005 to 4 May 2005 (#2005-91) 3. Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Arneson, Gygax... (5) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 04:09:54 -0700 From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" Subject: Re: weekend holidays? > As Altair IV just said, probably there aren't weekly > rest days in Mystara > because people usually don't work 6-12 hours a day > as in our RW Earth: in > classical and medieval societies nobles and rich > people simply didn't work, > ever. Work was something for peasants and farmers > (who anyway in normal > weather conditions worked a lot just in some months > and had months of little > of no work) or for merchants, artisans and > shopkeepers, who mostly worked at > home because they had shop and house in the same > place... I believe actually > that to work all day was something reserved to > slaves only... > bye > Francesco > I don't know if peasants didn't get a day of rest. I don't know this for a fact, but as europe in the middle ages was very religious (mostly christian but there were muslims in Spain, and the Balkan) I would guess that the church insisted on a day of rest (sunday) if only to avoid exscuses from people not attending church. I agree about the not working all day argument. With all our "modern" ways we live more and more like slaves... Judeism puts a very strong emphasis on the rest day, making it somhow divine. Even the LAND(!!) gets a year off. Yes, you are supposed to not tend to the land for one year every seven years, and let it gain nutriants. Strange isn't it? Ohad Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 05:20:40 -0700 From: DM Subject: Re: MYSTARA-L Digest - 3 May 2005 to 4 May 2005 (#2005-91) Altair IV cautiously asked: > Beg your pardon, but how many Elves... er... Italians are there in the List? > I subscribed just 10 days ago, and I've already "met" Giampaolo, Federico, Angelo, Giulio, Gabriele and Francesco... it's pretty unusual to cross the ocean and find myself at home! ^_* > And there's me too, one of the oldest... I remember there used to be Fabrizio Paoli and Ezio Pignatelli too, but I guess they're either undercover lurkers or quitted the list altogether. As for me, I'm mostly active on the Italian and English Mystara Message Boards, here: http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=291 and here: http://www.25edition.it/FORUM/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=98&CAT_ID=23&Forum_Title=Mystara Just in case you wanna stop by ;) Ciao ciao Marco aka DM __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 16:30:03 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Arneson, Gygax... > I have been with Mr. Dave "God" Arneson during the > 1994 (?) International > RPG Encounter (I rolled 2d10 and met him, hehehe!) > and he told me some > stories. It give me looooooads of emotion to only > recalls those moments... > being close to DAVE ARNESON! He told me "TSR... they > don't like me..." with > a said sigh. Thanks for sharing this story with us Vinnie! Very sad though :( Ofcourse, we all know what happened to TSR after that! > I found somewhere that Blackmoore is the REAL number > ONE campaign setting, > and Greyhawk was published as the #1 just because it > was TSR's owner world > (mayve it was on your site, Dustin?). Blackmoor predates the D&D game as it was Dave's homegrown campaign world for various miniature games IIRC. > WotC called Mr. Arneson to be a consultant to make > justice, to set things > right. If any newbies are here: WotC (Wizards) SAVED > the original and still > best RPG that exists: D&D. We owe them that!!!!!! > :-) There are alot of mixed feelings out there about WotC. But I am glad that they settled things with both Dave and Gary. > I have to admit that I acted "evil" (even lost some > XP for that): I bought > Greyhawk material. The original, old GH gazeteer > (1980) brings "Created and > written by Gary Gygax.", while the new one (2000?) > brings "Based on the > original Greyhawk campaign by E. Gary Gygax, Carl > Sargent and Roger E. Moore.". I didn't know Roger E. Moore was involved in that. He seems to be one of the least credited of the old guard game designers. I mainly know him for his work as Dragon Magazine editor. I also know he was the one who came up with the Kenders for the Dragonlance Setting. I don't think buying Greyhawk stuff is evil. Not as long as you stay true to Mystara ;) > Well, how do we tie it all together? Who was that > "TSR's owner"? Did Gygax > and Arneson break up? Nasty story. Eventually lead to both Dave and (later)Gary being driven out of TSR and a certian Lorraine Williams driving TSR to bankrupcy. At least that is the story circulating the internet these days. That was the short version. :) Håvard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 10:22:11 -0500 From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Arneson, Gygax... While the stories of the sordid doings by Gary and TSR in the old days is very interesting and soap-opera-like, I don't think that this is the appropriate forum for such. I lived through those days and do not really want to relive them here. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Havard Faanes" To: Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Arneson, Gygax... >> I have been with Mr. Dave "God" Arneson during the >> 1994 (?) International >> RPG Encounter (I rolled 2d10 and met him, hehehe!) >> and he told me some >> stories. It give me looooooads of emotion to only >> recalls those moments... >> being close to DAVE ARNESON! He told me "TSR... they >> don't like me..." with >> a said sigh. > > Thanks for sharing this story with us Vinnie! Very sad > though :( > > Ofcourse, we all know what happened to TSR after that! > > >> I found somewhere that Blackmoore is the REAL number >> ONE campaign setting, >> and Greyhawk was published as the #1 just because it >> was TSR's owner world >> (mayve it was on your site, Dustin?). > > Blackmoor predates the D&D game as it was Dave's > homegrown campaign world for various miniature games > IIRC. > >> WotC called Mr. Arneson to be a consultant to make >> justice, to set things >> right. If any newbies are here: WotC (Wizards) SAVED >> the original and still >> best RPG that exists: D&D. We owe them that!!!!!! >> :-) > > There are alot of mixed feelings out there about WotC. > But I am glad that they settled things with both Dave > and Gary. > >> I have to admit that I acted "evil" (even lost some >> XP for that): I bought >> Greyhawk material. The original, old GH gazeteer >> (1980) brings "Created and >> written by Gary Gygax.", while the new one (2000?) >> brings "Based on the >> original Greyhawk campaign by E. Gary Gygax, Carl >> Sargent and Roger E. Moore.". > > I didn't know Roger E. Moore was involved in that. He > seems to be one of the least credited of the old guard > game designers. I mainly know him for his work as > Dragon Magazine editor. I also know he was the one who > came up with the Kenders for the Dragonlance Setting. > > I don't think buying Greyhawk stuff is evil. Not as > long as you stay true to Mystara ;) > >> Well, how do we tie it all together? Who was that >> "TSR's owner"? Did Gygax >> and Arneson break up? > > Nasty story. Eventually lead to both Dave and > (later)Gary being driven out of TSR and a certian > Lorraine Williams driving TSR to bankrupcy. At least > that is the story circulating the internet these days. > > > That was the short version. :) > > Håvard > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 5/4/2005 > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 13:46:09 -0300 From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes (USP Solar)" Subject: Re: Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Arneson, Gygax... Pls forgive me, George. I hate soap operas, do not watch them - not even read the gossips magazines= =20 while waiting for a haircut, which everyone else do in Brazil. So why I ask= =20 all these things? Because I want to know what to buy. I'm very LG-aligned and will not tolerate any material that dcomes from=20 betrayal/backstabbing in my home. Hence I REALLY need to know a few things in order to resume my old stuff=20 buying. Simple example: I'm proud to announce that I have never bought a simple=20 copy of Windows (I casted "Negative Plane Protection" before saying that=20 word). Hope Jenny does not get mad at me... Cheers, Vini At 12:22 5/5/2005, you wrote: > While the stories of the sordid doings by Gary and TSR in the old days is > very interesting and soap-opera-like, I don't think that this is the > appropriate forum for such. > > I lived through those days and do not really want to relive them here. > > George > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Havard Faanes" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:30 AM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Arneson, Gygax... > > >>> I have been with Mr. Dave "God" Arneson during the >>> 1994 (?) International >>> RPG Encounter (I rolled 2d10 and met him, hehehe!) >>> and he told me some >>> stories. It give me looooooads of emotion to only >>> recalls those moments... >>> being close to DAVE ARNESON! He told me "TSR... they >>> don't like me..." with >>> a said sigh. >> >> Thanks for sharing this story with us Vinnie! Very sad >> though :( >> >> Ofcourse, we all know what happened to TSR after that! >> >> >>> I found somewhere that Blackmoore is the REAL number >>> ONE campaign setting, >>> and Greyhawk was published as the #1 just because it >>> was TSR's owner world >>> (mayve it was on your site, Dustin?). >> >> Blackmoor predates the D&D game as it was Dave's >> homegrown campaign world for various miniature games >> IIRC. >> >>> WotC called Mr. Arneson to be a consultant to make >>> justice, to set things >>> right. If any newbies are here: WotC (Wizards) SAVED >>> the original and still >>> best RPG that exists: D&D. We owe them that!!!!!! >>> :-) >> >> There are alot of mixed feelings out there about WotC. >> But I am glad that they settled things with both Dave >> and Gary. >> >>> I have to admit that I acted "evil" (even lost some >>> XP for that): I bought >>> Greyhawk material. The original, old GH gazeteer >>> (1980) brings "Created and >>> written by Gary Gygax.", while the new one (2000?) >>> brings "Based on the >>> original Greyhawk campaign by E. Gary Gygax, Carl >>> Sargent and Roger E. Moore.". >> >> I didn't know Roger E. Moore was involved in that. He >> seems to be one of the least credited of the old guard >> game designers. I mainly know him for his work as >> Dragon Magazine editor. I also know he was the one who >> came up with the Kenders for the Dragonlance Setting. >> >> I don't think buying Greyhawk stuff is evil. Not as >> long as you stay true to Mystara ;) >> >>> Well, how do we tie it all together? Who was that >>> "TSR's owner"? Did Gygax >>> and Arneson break up? >> >> Nasty story. Eventually lead to both Dave and >> (later)Gary being driven out of TSR and a certian >> Lorraine Williams driving TSR to bankrupcy. At least >> that is the story circulating the internet these days. >> >> >> That was the short version. :) >> >> H=E5vard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 12:15:53 -0500 From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Arneson, Gygax... If that is true, then don't purchase any books from any publishing houses, as almost all of them have some level of backstabbing going on (whether successful or not). In any case, this is not appropriate for this group. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes (USP Solar)" To: Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Arneson, Gygax... I hate soap operas, do not watch them - not even read the gossips magazines while waiting for a haircut, which everyone else do in Brazil. So why I ask all these things? Because I want to know what to buy. I'm very LG-aligned and will not tolerate any material that dcomes from betrayal/backstabbing in my home. Hence I REALLY need to know a few things in order to resume my old stuff buying. Simple example: I'm proud to announce that I have never bought a simple copy of Windows (I casted "Negative Plane Protection" before saying that word). Hope Jenny does not get mad at me... Cheers, Vini At 12:22 5/5/2005, you wrote: > While the stories of the sordid doings by Gary and TSR in the old days is > very interesting and soap-opera-like, I don't think that this is the > appropriate forum for such. > > I lived through those days and do not really want to relive them here. > > George > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Havard Faanes" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:30 AM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Arneson, Gygax... > > >>> I have been with Mr. Dave "God" Arneson during the >>> 1994 (?) International >>> RPG Encounter (I rolled 2d10 and met him, hehehe!) >>> and he told me some >>> stories. It give me looooooads of emotion to only >>> recalls those moments... >>> being close to DAVE ARNESON! He told me "TSR... they >>> don't like me..." with >>> a said sigh. >> >> Thanks for sharing this story with us Vinnie! Very sad >> though :( >> >> Ofcourse, we all know what happened to TSR after that! >> >> >>> I found somewhere that Blackmoore is the REAL number >>> ONE campaign setting, >>> and Greyhawk was published as the #1 just because it >>> was TSR's owner world >>> (mayve it was on your site, Dustin?). >> >> Blackmoor predates the D&D game as it was Dave's >> homegrown campaign world for various miniature games >> IIRC. >> >>> WotC called Mr. Arneson to be a consultant to make >>> justice, to set things >>> right. If any newbies are here: WotC (Wizards) SAVED >>> the original and still >>> best RPG that exists: D&D. We owe them that!!!!!! >>> :-) >> >> There are alot of mixed feelings out there about WotC. >> But I am glad that they settled things with both Dave >> and Gary. >> >>> I have to admit that I acted "evil" (even lost some >>> XP for that): I bought >>> Greyhawk material. The original, old GH gazeteer >>> (1980) brings "Created and >>> written by Gary Gygax.", while the new one (2000?) >>> brings "Based on the >>> original Greyhawk campaign by E. Gary Gygax, Carl >>> Sargent and Roger E. Moore.". >> >> I didn't know Roger E. Moore was involved in that. He >> seems to be one of the least credited of the old guard >> game designers. I mainly know him for his work as >> Dragon Magazine editor. I also know he was the one who >> came up with the Kenders for the Dragonlance Setting. >> >> I don't think buying Greyhawk stuff is evil. Not as >> long as you stay true to Mystara ;) >> >>> Well, how do we tie it all together? Who was that >>> "TSR's owner"? Did Gygax >>> and Arneson break up? >> >> Nasty story. Eventually lead to both Dave and >> (later)Gary being driven out of TSR and a certian >> Lorraine Williams driving TSR to bankrupcy. At least >> that is the story circulating the internet these days. >> >> >> That was the short version. :) >> >> Håvard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 5/4/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 15:26:47 -0300 From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes (USP Solar)" Subject: Re: Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Arneson, Gygax... Such is the speak of Mr. Law and Order (good series!). I disagree. But such is life. No hard feelings, Vini At 14:15 5/5/2005, you wrote: > If that is true, then don't purchase any books from any publishing houses, > as almost all of them have some level of backstabbing going on (whether > successful or not). > > In any case, this is not appropriate for this group. > > George > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes (USP Solar)" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Arneson, Gygax... > > > > I hate soap operas, do not watch them - not even read the gossips magazines > while waiting for a haircut, which everyone else do in Brazil. So why I ask > all these things? Because I want to know what to buy. > > I'm very LG-aligned and will not tolerate any material that dcomes from > betrayal/backstabbing in my home. > > Hence I REALLY need to know a few things in order to resume my old stuff > buying. > > Simple example: I'm proud to announce that I have never bought a simple > copy of Windows (I casted "Negative Plane Protection" before saying that > word). Hope Jenny does not get mad at me... > > Cheers, > Vini > > > At 12:22 5/5/2005, you wrote: >> While the stories of the sordid doings by Gary and TSR in the old days is >> very interesting and soap-opera-like, I don't think that this is the >> appropriate forum for such. >> >> I lived through those days and do not really want to relive them here. >> >> George >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Havard Faanes" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:30 AM >> Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Arneson, Gygax... >> >> >>>> I have been with Mr. Dave "God" Arneson during the >>>> 1994 (?) International >>>> RPG Encounter (I rolled 2d10 and met him, hehehe!) >>>> and he told me some >>>> stories. It give me looooooads of emotion to only >>>> recalls those moments... >>>> being close to DAVE ARNESON! He told me "TSR... they >>>> don't like me..." with >>>> a said sigh. >>> >>> Thanks for sharing this story with us Vinnie! Very sad >>> though :( >>> >>> Ofcourse, we all know what happened to TSR after that! >>> >>> >>>> I found somewhere that Blackmoore is the REAL number >>>> ONE campaign setting, >>>> and Greyhawk was published as the #1 just because it >>>> was TSR's owner world >>>> (mayve it was on your site, Dustin?). >>> >>> Blackmoor predates the D&D game as it was Dave's >>> homegrown campaign world for various miniature games >>> IIRC. >>> >>>> WotC called Mr. Arneson to be a consultant to make >>>> justice, to set things >>>> right. If any newbies are here: WotC (Wizards) SAVED >>>> the original and still >>>> best RPG that exists: D&D. We owe them that!!!!!! >>>> :-) >>> >>> There are alot of mixed feelings out there about WotC. >>> But I am glad that they settled things with both Dave >>> and Gary. >>> >>>> I have to admit that I acted "evil" (even lost some >>>> XP for that): I bought >>>> Greyhawk material. The original, old GH gazeteer >>>> (1980) brings "Created and >>>> written by Gary Gygax.", while the new one (2000?) >>>> brings "Based on the >>>> original Greyhawk campaign by E. Gary Gygax, Carl >>>> Sargent and Roger E. Moore.". >>> >>> I didn't know Roger E. Moore was involved in that. He >>> seems to be one of the least credited of the old guard >>> game designers. I mainly know him for his work as >>> Dragon Magazine editor. I also know he was the one who >>> came up with the Kenders for the Dragonlance Setting. >>> >>> I don't think buying Greyhawk stuff is evil. Not as >>> long as you stay true to Mystara ;) >>> >>>> Well, how do we tie it all together? Who was that >>>> "TSR's owner"? Did Gygax >>>> and Arneson break up? >>> >>> Nasty story. Eventually lead to both Dave and >>> (later)Gary being driven out of TSR and a certian >>> Lorraine Williams driving TSR to bankrupcy. At least >>> that is the story circulating the internet these days. >>> >>> >>> That was the short version. :) >>> >>> H=E5vard ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 4 May 2005 to 5 May 2005 (#2005-92) *************************************************************