Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 12 May 2005 to 13 May 2005 (#2005-98) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 14/05/2005, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 3 messages totalling 360 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Order of the Griffon/Karameikan Clergy (2) 2. For Stanley - bugs in ESDs ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 03:13:09 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Order of the Griffon/Karameikan Clergy --- Brendan Corliss wrote: > > I like it. It gives the OoG a nice background, as > opposed to simply being the CoK's "muscle". I also > like the loose parallels between the RW crusades and > the coming of the Duke and his followers. That's the > link to the Templars (Hospitaler, Teutonics, etc.) > that I felt was missing in using the RW model. > Interesting indeed... Yeah- I was looking for the exact sort of rationale behind the OoG that you were. I went right back to the source- they seemed most similar to the Knights Templar, and after I did a bit of research on their origins, I thought it might be applicable. Especially since the OoG seems to be an exclusively Church of Karameikos thing, rather than a Church of Thyatis thing. Speaking of which- going back to Havard's discussion of religious titles/ranks and their ties to the feudal type nature of the Duchy- the fact that the foremost church of the nation itself is named after Duke Stefan seems somewhat telling. Yes, that's the name he rechristened the land, but the new sect of the church need not have named itself after the land necessarily- it could have been given a different moniker. The fact that it was renamed the Church of Karameikos, coupled with the titleage/positions of several key clergy in the Karameikos ruling regime, it seems to me, would indicate that the church is quite an influence in Karameikos- possibly moreso than Gaz1 indicates (and it even outright states that the church is one of the three major powers in the land). > I'd love to see what you've come up with so far for > the Prestige Class. I've gotten a new player in my > campaign that's a Ftr/Clr from the CoK and he's > interested in the idea of becoming a member of the > OoG, so I'm going to be in a position of coming up > with some guidelines myself. The basics are pretty much the Maquar Crusader from "The Shining South". I went back and forth on whether they should have divine spellcasting ability (even just a paladin-like spellcasting), but ultimately went with a more martial model. Here's the outline of it (the easy part): HD: d10 Requirements: Alignment: Any lawful Base Attack Bonus +4 Skills: Knowledge (religion) +4 Special: Must pass a series of tests and undertake rituals required by the Church of Karameikos, and be inducted into the Order by the patriarch of the CoK. Skill pts/level: 2 + Int bonus Skills: Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (religion), Profession, Ride, Sense Motive. Level BAB F R W 1 +1 +2 +0 +0 2 +2 +3 +0 +0 3 +3 +3 +1 +1 4 +4 +4 +1 +1 5 +5 +4 +1 +1 6 +6 +5 +2 +2 7 +7 +5 +2 +2 8 +8 +6 +2 +2 9 +9 +6 +3 +3 10 +10 +7 +3 +3 Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Knights of the Griffon gain proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, all types of armor, and with shields. Again, that's all the easy stuff. I think there might need to be another requirement or two [perhaps a feat of some sort? Weapon Focus (any)?] As far as abilities, I wanted to focus on things that were primarily defensive in nature, and that would be most effective when used in protecting others of the faith, as it were. Ideas I have: Smite Infidel: Similar to the Paladin's Smite ability, but would not be effective against those faithful to the Church. Possibly just make this Smite, with no qualifiers. Probably at levels 3 and 7. Divine Grace: Something like this, that would provide bonuses to saves. Possibly just limit this to bonuses to Will saves versus mind-affecting spells/effects. Harm's Way: The Maquar Crusader/Devoted Defender ability. Basically, it allows the character to take an attack for another person that he designates as his charge for the duration of that combat. Along with this ability, the Defensive Strike and Deflect Attack abilities seem a good partnering. Allied Defense: Something like the feat from Shining South, but modified/limited a bit. That feat allows characters using the Combat Expertise feat to share their AC bonus with his adjacent allies. It doesn't limit it, though, so a group of characters with this feat adjacent could potentially be really untouchable. I like the idea of a group of Griffons poised together, shields ready, to defend though. If I used this ability (again, with the caveat of limiting it somehow), I'd make Combat Expertise a required feat. In any case, the Maquar Crusader seems really close to what I envision, though it seems there should be some other abilities to differentiate the two. Any ideas you have would be awesome, as I've kind of stumbled into a brick wall with this one. Of course, another option, if you have Paladin as a prestige class rather than a base class, is to use that. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 13:41:23 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Order of the Griffon/Karameikan Clergy I like where this discussion is going! I'm sort of pressed for time right now, but I'd like to make a few comments right away and hopefully I'll get back for more later on: 1) I love the idea of the OoG being fonded as an escort for those who migrated to Karameikos. Perhaps Jowett had a vision of Asterius flying on a griffon towards the promised land of the new church. 2) There seems to be some sort of Manifest Destiny concept underlaying the Church of Karameikos. The OoG could further emphasize this by their special connection to the land. 3) We could have different ranks within the OoG. Like the Templar, the rank of Knight would be limited to those of noble blood. Others would have to serve as soldiers, sergeants or captains. The Gaz lists individuals only as "members", but we can give them ranks as we see fit. IIRC all of the ones listed are nobles anyways, so they could easily be Knights or posess higher ranks. 4) On the PrC by Andrew: I like it! We could limit this to Members of Knightly rank or higher. Also, Include that paladins may multiclass to this PrC with no penalty. More later... Håvard --- Andrew Theisen wrote: > --- Brendan Corliss > wrote: > > > > I like it. It gives the OoG a nice background, as > > opposed to simply being the CoK's "muscle". I also > > like the loose parallels between the RW crusades > and > > the coming of the Duke and his followers. That's > the > > link to the Templars (Hospitaler, Teutonics, etc.) > > that I felt was missing in using the RW model. > > Interesting indeed... > > Yeah- I was looking for the exact sort of rationale > behind the OoG that you were. I went right back to > the > source- they seemed most similar to the Knights > Templar, and after I did a bit of research on their > origins, I thought it might be applicable. > Especially > since the OoG seems to be an exclusively Church of > Karameikos thing, rather than a Church of Thyatis > thing. > > Speaking of which- going back to Havard's discussion > of religious titles/ranks and their ties to the > feudal > type nature of the Duchy- the fact that the foremost > church of the nation itself is named after Duke > Stefan > seems somewhat telling. Yes, that's the name he > rechristened the land, but the new sect of the > church > need not have named itself after the land > necessarily- > it could have been given a different moniker. The > fact > that it was renamed the Church of Karameikos, > coupled > with the titleage/positions of several key clergy in > the Karameikos ruling regime, it seems to me, would > indicate that the church is quite an influence in > Karameikos- possibly moreso than Gaz1 indicates (and > it even outright states that the church is one of > the > three major powers in the land). > > > I'd love to see what you've come up with so far > for > > the Prestige Class. I've gotten a new player in my > > campaign that's a Ftr/Clr from the CoK and he's > > interested in the idea of becoming a member of the > > OoG, so I'm going to be in a position of coming up > > with some guidelines myself. > > The basics are pretty much the Maquar Crusader from > "The Shining South". I went back and forth on > whether > they should have divine spellcasting ability (even > just a paladin-like spellcasting), but ultimately > went > with a more martial model. > > Here's the outline of it (the easy part): > > HD: d10 > Requirements: > Alignment: Any lawful > Base Attack Bonus +4 > Skills: Knowledge (religion) +4 > Special: Must pass a series of tests and undertake > rituals required by the Church of Karameikos, and be > inducted into the Order by the patriarch of the CoK. > > Skill pts/level: 2 + Int bonus > Skills: Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, > Knowledge (religion), Profession, Ride, Sense > Motive. > > Level BAB F R W > > 1 +1 +2 +0 +0 > 2 +2 +3 +0 +0 > 3 +3 +3 +1 +1 > 4 +4 +4 +1 +1 > 5 +5 +4 +1 +1 > 6 +6 +5 +2 +2 > 7 +7 +5 +2 +2 > 8 +8 +6 +2 +2 > 9 +9 +6 +3 +3 > 10 +10 +7 +3 +3 > > Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Knights of the Griffon > gain proficiency with all simple and martial > weapons, > all types of armor, and with shields. > > Again, that's all the easy stuff. I think there > might > need to be another requirement or two [perhaps a > feat > of some sort? Weapon Focus (any)?] > > As far as abilities, I wanted to focus on things > that > were primarily defensive in nature, and that would > be > most effective when used in protecting others of the > faith, as it were. Ideas I have: > > Smite Infidel: Similar to the Paladin's Smite > ability, > but would not be effective against those faithful to > the Church. Possibly just make this Smite, with no > qualifiers. Probably at levels 3 and 7. > > Divine Grace: Something like this, that would > provide > bonuses to saves. Possibly just limit this to > bonuses > to Will saves versus mind-affecting spells/effects. > > Harm's Way: The Maquar Crusader/Devoted Defender > ability. Basically, it allows the character to take > an > attack for another person that he designates as his > charge for the duration of that combat. Along with > this ability, the Defensive Strike and Deflect > Attack > abilities seem a good partnering. > > Allied Defense: Something like the feat from Shining > South, but modified/limited a bit. That feat allows > characters using the Combat Expertise feat to share > their AC bonus with his adjacent allies. It doesn't > limit it, though, so a group of characters with this > feat adjacent could potentially be really > untouchable. > I like the idea of a group of Griffons poised > together, shields ready, to defend though. If I used > this ability (again, with the caveat of limiting it > somehow), I'd make Combat Expertise a required feat. > > In any case, the Maquar Crusader seems really close > to > what I envision, though it seems there should be > some > other abilities to differentiate the two. Any ideas > you have would be awesome, as I've kind of stumbled > into a brick wall with this one. > > Of course, another option, if you have Paladin as a > prestige class rather than a base class, is to use > that. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/default.aspx > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:58:32 +0200 From: Federico Kaftal Subject: For Stanley - bugs in ESDs Hi, this is a memo for Stanles: here's the search page of the MML archives where I pointed out a number of bugged Mystaran ESDs. Have a Look! Federico http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?S2=mystara-l&D=0&H=0&O=T&T=1&q=&s=esd&f=kaftal&a=&b= ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 12 May 2005 to 13 May 2005 (#2005-98) ***************************************************************