Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 23 Jan 2006 to 24 Jan 2006 (#2006-10) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 25/01/2006, 19:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 4 messages totalling 269 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Flaem race and culture? (4) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:29:20 -0400 From: Steven Carter Subject: Re: Flaem race and culture? If the Alphatio-Ochaleans are supposed to be M_Chinese, and I'm not convinced they are the whole story, then shouldn't the original culture be strongly in favour of elemental harmony? How then does an Alphatio-Ochalean fleet become used by the ruling Alphatian majority for a mass emmigration AND still allow the minority Ochaleans to survive? A neutral party in Fire/Air conflict I would expect would be universally hated given we are lead to believe the Fire-Air conflict polarized the entire Alphatian society. Perhaps they threw their lot in at the last moment, tipping the balance of power and buying their salvation. Thus, upon planetfall on Mystara, they found the most distant land they could and fled the Air-dominated empire. Even so, I suspect the Empire later imposed its will on Ochalea, hence the siding with Thyatis in 995 BC - 0 AC. On 24/01/06, Andrew Theisen wrote: > --- Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > > > Remember that the Alphatians were a large > (planetary-sized) > > culture, with much room for different subraces. > Specifically, > > the Alphatians are divided into at least two racial > groups, the > > Cypri (copper skin, dark hair) and the Pure > Alphatians (pale skin > with hints of blue, blue-black > hair). The Flaem were probably akin > to the Cypri. > > Along this line, based on some recent discussions > (well, maybe not *that* recent) with people here on > the list and on the MML (notably DM), I am currently > of the opinion that the Ochaleans were an ethnic > minority on Old Alphatia. Their physical appearance > was ultimately dominated by the Cypri features > (coppery skin, etc.), but they managed to retain the > largest elements of their own culture, which they > brought with them to Mystara, and preserved (and > expanded upon) when they settled the island of > Ochalea, away from the Alphatian mainland. > > In fact, based on what I'm reading about the Chinese > treasure fleets of old in the book 1421: The Year > China Discovered America, I'm currently toying with > the idea that the flotillas of skyships that > transported the Alphatians to Mystara were of Old > Ochalean make and manufacture (though the techniques > were largely lost along with the massive troves of > information that disappeared when the planet was > destroyed). > > Tying in with that is (yet another) new theory of mine > about how the Myoshimans may have gotten their culture > from the Ochaleans who landed on Matera, rather than > continuing all the way to Mystara. (Seems an easier > explanation than trying to fit in the Rakasta Japanese > elements into such a short timespan on Mystara, and > then having them somehow transported to the moon.) > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:01:07 +0200 From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Re: Flaem race and culture? Thanks again for the tips. I read through the material in DotE, and one important point is that after the Aplhatian conquest of their world and the submission of the Cyprite, the two races (and other "minor" ones) began to merge culturally and most likely racially. (Leaving the RW scientific and political scruples with this sort of terminology aside.) This peaceful coexistence endured a long time before the strife. But when the Alphatians arrived in Mystara, their ruling caste seems to have been mostly Old Alphatian (racially) and of course from the Air faction. Whereas when the Flaem arrived, they seem to have been more Cyprite outlook. There seems to be a small discrepancy here. The Air-Fire conflict is pictured as mainly a philosophical one, and not gulfing to ethnic groups. This fits the earlier Alphatian history well. (DotE mentions how the conquerors - the Old Alphatians - began to be assimilated into the conquered Cyprite culture.) Giampaolo's suggestion about elemental connections might serve us here, and Francesco's story gives additional spice. Perhaps the Cyprites really were more aligned to fire-based magic long before the conquest, and the Alphatians favoured Air-based magic. (Remember that in practice these are quite wide denominations.) These practices had effects right down to the phenotype of the "races". After the mingling of the cultures, these racial characteristics began to vanish, but some old families retained the idea of cultural & racial purity, on both sides. These factions might have been the originators of the philosophical conflict. --> 1) the Alphatian lords that established their civilization on Mystara stem from the Air-favouring Old Alphatian faction. --> 2) The Flaem refugees on the other hand, had to "wander throught the planes" for c. 1400 years before finding solace in present-day Glantri. This group, and especially its leading cadre, stems from the purist Cyprite Fire-favouring faction. How does this sound? IMC the PCs are searching for "dangerous Vanyan Heretics" at the request of the Heldann Knights. The said heretics are searching the Fortress of an old Flaem mage, a refugee from Braerj during 500-600. It is said that one of the original Heldannic Knights set out on a quest there and was never heard from again. The "heretics" know that he was carrying an important artefact found in Vanya's Rest (the knight belonged to the original expedition), and their leader is trying to find it. Although the fortress/tomb of the Flaem mage provides only the background to the storyline, I plan on giving them insight on the Flaem-Alphatian history. The mage was a dissident and a histrorian who believed in the idea of Reunification of the two cultures, and was spurned by his compatriots. This should work well, as none of the Players have any information on Mystara. This is their first campaign there. So the notion of otherwordly visitors and their common heritage should be really surprising. (The story of the heretic knight affords a nice turning point for a PC, an aspiring Vanyan Knight. Should he follow the orders of the Knights, and return the heretic to justice? Or will he understand that the Knights have left "Vanya's true way"? What will become of the artefact? Will it be used to fuel the warmongering of the HK, or will it become a symbol for change - for better of worse?) Ville ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:45:08 +0100 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: Re: Flaem race and culture? Steven Carter wrote: > If the Alphatio-Ochaleans are supposed to be M_Chinese, and I'm not > convinced they are the whole story, then shouldn't the original > culture be strongly in favour of elemental harmony? How then does an > Alphatio-Ochalean fleet become used by the ruling Alphatian majority > for a mass emmigration AND still allow the minority Ochaleans to > survive? A neutral party in Fire/Air conflict I would expect would be > universally hated given we are lead to believe the Fire-Air conflict > polarized the entire Alphatian society. > > Perhaps they threw their lot in at the last moment, tipping the > balance of power and buying their salvation. Thus, upon planetfall on > Mystara, they found the most distant land they could and fled the > Air-dominated empire. > > Even so, I suspect the Empire later imposed its will on Ochalea, hence > the siding with Thyatis in 995 BC - 0 AC. I agree, and I think that the first alphatians to go to Ochalea were mostly Gaian Alphatians (the "earth" race of the alphatian homeworld) who mixed with the ochalean natives and then were followed by many common, not wizards and peaceful cypric alphatians. Probably they left alphatian mainland as soon as possible because they blamed the "air alphatian" for the destruction of their homeworld and the deaths of many neutral alphatians who the followers of air didn't bother to save. I think they should have a developed earth magic, but probably not all the Gaian Alphatians went to Ochalea, and others founded the realm of Bettelyn, particulary its capital of Citadel, a huge tower-city (you must have people quite proficient with earth magic to build that!). So, even if nowadays I think the alphatian population should be quite racially mixed, probably many realms were influenced or founded by people who belonged to the ancients cultures of the alphatian homeworld: Blackheart by the chaotic esperians (black magic), minrothad and aquas by the seagoing pelasgians (water magic) and so on. bye Francesco ___________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice: chiama da PC a telefono a tariffe esclusive http://it.messenger.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:21:04 +0100 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: Re: Flaem race and culture? Ville V Lahde wrote: > --> 1) the Alphatian lords that established their civilization on > Mystara stem from the Air-favouring Old Alphatian faction. > --> 2) The Flaem refugees on the other hand, had to "wander throught > the planes" for c. 1400 years before finding solace in present-day > Glantri. This group, and especially its leading cadre, stems from the > purist Cyprite Fire-favouring faction. > How does this sound? Good, I would add that maybe the followers of fire were more "typical" cypric alphatian before the destruction of their homeworld, I mean hairs from red to brown, skin from cream to red, because they married a little with the pure alphatians and other races during their common history, but in the 1400 years "wandering the planes" I bet they did extensive use of fire elementals as guides and allies, and probably lived in the plane of fire too. That should explain why the Flaems who arrived in Mystara were always red haired and copper skinned: a lot of fire elementals/genasi blood in them, as Giampaolo said. bye, Francesco ___________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 23 Jan 2006 to 24 Jan 2006 (#2006-10) ***************************************************************