Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 11 Jun 2006 to 12 Jun 2006 (#2006-117) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 13/06/2006, 17:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 16 messages totalling 684 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Colhadorian evils, please 2. Next Edition of D&D (OT) (7) 3. Norwold climate 4. Thyra Bjorndotter 5. Tim Hildebrandt 6. New to list / hunting for B1 (5) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:59:44 +0300 From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Colhadorian evils, please Two PCs of our group should be heading for Colhador in the near =20 future. The PC group played War Rafts of Kron many years ago, but =20 otherwise they have had little to do with the undersea realms. As a background: - The PCs are trying desperately to foil the political machinations of =20 Eluna Kelar, the head of Guild Elsan in Minrothad. Kelar murdered Oran =20 Meditor a few years ago, and has during the recent year managed to =20 gain power in the Guilds. Now Kelar and her (we established she is a =20 woman, the GAZ doesn't specify this) allies have toppled the Guild =20 council, isolated Astra Meditor, and Kelar is close to attaining hear =20 goal of domination. - Kelar's main resource has been her knowledge of Taymoran necromancy. =20 After the PCs defeated the velya's plans and pacified the area, Kelar =20 became interested in the old legends. Eventually she traveled to =20 Colhador in secret and gained access to powerful necromantic forces. =20 With those she managed to kill Oran Meditor, magically kidnap his soul =20 and twist information from him, and make puppets of the treasurer =20 Blanceer and Ginol Meditor. Her "death spirits" are powerful assassins =20 that have so far managed to kill all of her old allies that could have =20 proved her guilty (Hamilvar Kasan, Linias Kasan). Anyway, the PCs have realised that they have no hope for a political =20 or diplomatic solution, and they cannot prove that Eluna Kelar is =20 guilty of anything. They know the truth (of sorts) about most of her =20 crimes. They have decided to attack her necromantic resources =20 directly, and have the means of eventually finding out that her =20 "necromantic lair" is in Colhador. So, we get to return to old stomping grounds. Any neat ideas on what they might find there? I have written a lot of =20 material concerning Kelar's rituals, her diaries, distrurbing =20 encounters of Oran's trapped soul etc. But I still would like to =20 devise something really scary in the way of opposition: ancient =20 Taymoran evils, please. (The PCs are both 14th level with access to pretty powerful magic, and =20 they can recruit some powerful allies for this job. One example is =20 Murl Vlaardoen, although I had to downgrade him a bit. Truth Greenton =20 is available, along with some of his cronies. So the opposition can be =20 very powerful.) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:52:41 +0100 From: CAB Davidson Subject: Re: Next Edition of D&D (OT) --- Havard Faanes wrote: > Yeah, making attack bonuses, saves and spells part > of > the skill system does sound like the next logical > step. That wouldnt neccesarily mean the elimiation > of > classes since the concept of Class Skills could > still > be around to encourage the same kind of progression > as > with the current system. > > Would be interesting to see... > > Håvard I don't like this idea. Takes D&D further away from Mystara. I'd like the next edition of D&D to be encapsulated in a single rulebook, something less than 300 pages that would be quick, easy and playable. I'd like it to be a class-archetype based system with customisation of character types possible but not central. Less emphasis on rules and more on setting, thats what we Mystarans need :) Whether thats done with having a two tiered system ('classic' and 'advanced' as we once had) or just having a slimmed down rules set for Mystara, I don't care. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 06:30:32 -0700 From: Anthony Edwards Subject: Re: Next Edition of D&D (OT) My favorite edition of D&D is still in a red box with a half naked barbarian looking fella going sword to claw against a red dragon that looks a bit annoyed the barbarian is tromping all over its treasure horde! I still long for the days when I played "Eilif the Lost" who hailed from the Kingdom of Vestland and fought his way aboard his ship to many fine adventures as a Fighter from such varied places as the Republic of Darokin as a mercenary captain against pirates all the way to the heart of the Alphatian Empire as a Sea Reaver himself. Eilif never made it to the Immortals Box; but I do miss the simple style of play that the old boxed sets put forth where setting and imagination coupled with good story telling took first place over dice rolls. In a nutshell though, the next Edition of D&D will no doubt continue down the road trend of "Crunchy" that has taken hold. It allows WotC to sell more books (according to certain "in charge" folks) and is a debate that won't be won out by those of us that simply want setting. What I've decided on instead is to go with the flow and hope for good setting to come from game play by hundreds and thousands who create it as they go and then share it in places like this. My favorite character of all time was Dalor Darden, a wizard from Alphatia. He has survived every incarnation of D&D that has come and gone and it is just as fun to play him because it is the character I'm playing and not the rules. Whatever form D&D takes it is fun to play the "original" fantasy game and fight dragons and such. Anthony Edwards __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 07:40:02 -0700 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Norwold climate On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 00:49:37 -0700, Herve Musseau wrote: > Does this description sound correct to you? How do you see the climate of > Norwold? IMO Norwold was designed to be playable, and although it is colder > than a typical setting it is not arctic, except for its northern portion. I > believe Canada is a good comparison. Any opinion? From a Canadian, maybe? I would agree with this. The region of Norwold north of the Great Bay region would equate with northern Ontario, Quebec (north of the St. Lawrence River), Labrador (lived there for two years), and Newfoundland. All of these regions are below the tree line (and therefore have plenty of vegetation and diverse animal life). Bodies of water freeze during the cold winters, and summers are slightly cool and fairly short. The shores of Hudson's Bay are less hospitable (much of it is north of the tree line), but still capable of sustaining life - such a climate could sustain an adventuring party/campaign. Southern Norwold and Heldann would be, as others have said, like Atlantic Canada/New England. Unpredictable weather on the coast, and damp, but *generally* not as cold in the winter. Geoff ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:17:11 -0700 From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Next Edition of D&D (OT) Anthony Edwards wrote: > In a nutshell though, the next Edition of D&D will no > doubt continue down the road trend of "Crunchy" that > has taken hold. It allows WotC to sell more books > (according to certain "in charge" folks) and is a > debate that won't be won out by those of us that > simply want setting. I hadn't thought of it before, but Green Ronin's True20 system is probably pretty similar in its simplicity and there's a new PDF out (most of the True20 line is actual books) to show everyone how to emulate classic D&D classes with the new system. Might be worth checking out. http://true20.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 15:23:51 -0500 From: Daniel Subject: Thyra Bjorndotter http://dragonofchaos.net/lj/thyra.jpg Bad scan, picture is from 1989 or 1991, honestly don't remember anymore. Always loved the picture of the viking girl in the back of Fiend Folio (yeah, I'm that old) that was done by Bill Willingham. Swiped the image and wrote up Thyra Bjorndotter as a Heldanner. While Willingham was at a Dallas Fantasy Fair I asked him to redo it in his current style (this was during Elementals & Ironwood). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:55:19 +0100 From: Mark Howard Subject: Re: Next Edition of D&D (OT) > Anthony Edwards: > I do miss the simple style of play that the old boxed sets put forth where setting and > imagination coupled with good story telling took first place over dice rolls. I agree. The main problem I have with d20 is the number of dice rolls, and that the players (and more so the DM) are constantly looking at bonuses/feats/skills for more or less everything. No matter what the class/monster/situation. I feel that the old box sets were very limited in terms of their class progression, but this was dealt with rather well in the Gazeteers (I feel anyway). And is closer to realism whilst still maintaining high fantasy (how many accountant/priest/software programmer/soldiers does anyone know in real life). I just want something that I can pick up and play, and letting details come out in play (primarily through the imagination of the PCs) rather than having to plan 90% of everything in advance. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 20:51:36 -0300 From: Steven Carter Subject: Re: Next Edition of D&D (OT) I used to play an unrecognizable variant Spawn of Fashan (okay, it wasn't tSoF, but if you've taken the tests then you get the idea). It was my house rules for combining a d20-based game with a d6-based with a d%+tables game. My rules were complete. They covered every situation possible. It was horribly unbalanced. One of the most munchkin games possible. It survived from 1987 to 1996. The rules had martial arts, feats, psionics, magic, super powers, giant killer robots, aliens, dragons, cybernetics... everything. One of my favorite parts was the rule for calling artillery support (photon torpedoes) from an orbital starship. I had a freaking rule for everything. I wrote a 300 page rulebook with conversion notes on how to use the primary publisher's material. Why am I mentioning this? The only way to run a game was to: 1) write a character creation program with an enormous database (it was never finished) 2) have pregenerated initiative matrices 3) every different character was a 10-15 page print out report of attributes, skills, feats, powers, and the short descriptions on how to use each and every one. My point - way too complicated. If 4eD&D gets crunchier than 3.5e then it surpasses my order vs entropy threshold. Ordered systems of such complexity are beyond the mortal mind to comprehend as anything other than chaos. The last time I started a game I emailed the 3.0 SRD and said "that's all we're gonna use". I think next time it's going to be simpler than that. On 12/06/06, Mark Howard wrote: > >Anthony Edwards: > >I do miss the simple style of play that the old boxed sets put forth where > setting and > >imagination coupled with good story telling took first place over dice > rolls. > > I agree. The main problem I have with d20 is the number of dice rolls, and > that the players (and more so the DM) are constantly looking at > bonuses/feats/skills for more or less everything. No matter what the > class/monster/situation. I feel that the old box sets were very limited in > terms of their class progression, but this was dealt with rather well in the > Gazeteers (I feel anyway). And is closer to realism whilst still > maintaining high fantasy (how many accountant/priest/software > programmer/soldiers does anyone know in real life). > > I just want something that I can pick up and play, and letting details come > out in play (primarily through the imagination of the PCs) rather than > having to plan 90% of everything in advance. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 17:10:42 -0700 From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: Next Edition of D&D (OT) I still play with the original boxed sets. 1st edition AD&D was ok and 2nd edition was also playable. I picked up the 3.5 books and am still mad at myself for wasting the money. When my son wanted to play D&D with me he already knew Neverwinter Nights rules. So he had the grasp of 3rd edition. Once I showed him basic, he was like...dad why would anyone want to complicate such a simple game? I am 33 years old and don't have time for any new edition of D&D. I just want a simple, easy to play game that I can share with my friends and my son. Granted, 3.5 has some good concepts...and I have used a few with basic...not to mention spells. 20 years ago my mom bought me the basic red box set and I still play with those rules today. Life is easier when its simple...of course this has all just been my opinion....please take it as such. Multizar the Mage Anthony Edwards wrote: My favorite edition of D&D is still in a red box with a half naked barbarian looking fella going sword to claw against a red dragon that looks a bit annoyed the barbarian is tromping all over its treasure horde!

Check me out! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:19:20 -0500 From: Daniel Subject: Tim Hildebrandt A moment of silence please, I learned that Tim Hildebrandt passed away this past weekend. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:59:49 EDT From: Erol Bayburt Subject: Re: Next Edition of D&D (OT) In a message dated 6/12/2006 8:31:00 AM Central Daylight Time, dalor_darden@YAHOO.COM writes: > In a nutshell though, the next Edition of D&D will no > doubt continue down the road trend of "Crunchy" that > has taken hold. It allows WotC to sell more books > (according to certain "in charge" folks) and is a > debate that won't be won out by those of us that > simply want setting. Allow me to put in a dissenting opinion: Crunch Is Good. Now setting is good too, and I think the Gazetteers were wonderful. Especially the Karameikos, Alfheim, and Rockholm ones. But the skill rules introduced in them were painfully inadequate - I think 3.x was worth adopting for the sake of its actually-decent skill system alone. 3.x offers more than just a decent skill system, though; it's a huge step forward, and I, for one, am not looking back at the old rules unless its to see how to capture the "flavor" of, e.g. Mystara Elves and Dwarves in the new system. Yes, 3.x does have flaws, and I hope they're fixed in 4e (but I fear that they'll be made worse). I have a rant on the subject that has been floating around in my head for a while now, and that I've just recently written down: The Good, Bad, and Ugly of 3.x (One man's opinion, YMMV, void where prohibited by law, inapplicable where superseded by chaos, etc.) Things I Love 1. Skills: At last D&D has a decent skill system. I have quibbles about it (e.g. the cross-class penalty being too big), but my quibbles *are* just quibbles. 2. Feats: I first went "huh?" when I first encountered them, but they've grown on me since as being a really good idea. 3. A set of battle-mat combat rules actually usable by Mere Mortals, as opposed to the 1e rules that were only usable by Total Wargaming Geeks, and that most players (including myself) therefore ignored. 4. The d20 mechanic itself: A nice job 5. The general rationalization and simplification of saving throws, xp needed per level, ability score bonuses, etc. 6. The rules for creating magic items, and the wealth guidelines in general. It is a good thing that the rules no longer try to stupidly pretend that a +1 sword is a [reverberation]BENISON BEYOND PRICE[/reverb] And I have no sympathy for the DMs who whine that they can no longer act like Gawds; that they no longer have the unquestionable authority to insist that their players smile and say "thank you sir" if they choose to inflict such poverty and suffering on the PCs as would make a sane person envy Job. Things I Hate 1. The double-power-every-two-levels power curve: Works OK up to about 8th level, starts to break down at levels 9-12, completely wonky at levels 13+ 2. Magic as a Trump Card: The general philosophy that has magic trumping non-magical abilities, and that only more-powerful magic can counter less-powerful magic. There are exceptions, yes, but they strike me as being rare and grudging. 3. Disposable/expendable magic items: Some items do have to be consumable, like potions or scrolls. But I find it annoying that so many other items are consumables as well. Wands. Staffs. A lot of the miscellaneous magic. And it really bugs me that it costs xp to create those consumable magic items. 4. Spellcasters as the ultimate source of all good things. This is related to (2) above, but the issue would be less annoying if non-spellcasters had a greater ability to create magical or otherwise special items. For example, if crafting magic arms and armor were something fighters could do. Or possibly even something they could do better than wizards. 5. Prestige Classes. Bah! I say, and Bah! again. They're munchkin-bait; things that actively encourage the unspeakable practice of trying to produce the uber-build. ("Rogue 1/druid 1/milkmaid 2/divine rennet 1/munchkin cheese 15 - ha! Let's see you beat *that* build") Mixed Feelings 1. The great number of magic items that characters have. Yes, magic items are a necessity given how D&D is set up to be a high-magic game. I'd prefer, though, that characters have a smaller number of really cool & powerful items, rather than the larger number of weaker ones that the game gives by default. 2. Multiclassing. In some ways 3e fixed multiclassing, and made it sane and rational. In other ways, it created new problems (with those unspeakable "prestige classes" then being offered as the kludge to "fix" those problems). 3. The rigidity of the wealth guidelines. It would be nice to have an analysis of just how much extra wealth boosts a character's power, and just how much relatively poverty diminishes it. 4. Rangers. I imprinted on the 1e ranger as "the" ranger, and I though the 3.0 ranger was almost perfect - it just needed to be a little less front-loaded, and to have more combat flexibility than that hard-coded TWF ability, and it would be good to go. The 3.5 ranger felt like a step backward to me; a change to "wilderness ninja" from "Paladin of the Forest" (Which is what a ranger *should* be, in my completely arrogant opinion). And that TWF or Archery choice, while an improvement, still felt like a horrible kludge. 5. Healing. Healing via divine magic is such a deeply rooted D&Dism that any change will have huge, far-reaching effects. On one hand, I'd like to see less dependence on the party medic, er, cleric. But on the other hand, it just wouldn't be D&D without this element. -- Erol K. Bayburt ErolB1@aol.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:55:50 EDT From: Todd Myers Subject: New to list / hunting for B1 Hello everyone I have just recently started subscribing to this list. after years of my old D&D modules being stored away I have brought them out to entertain a new Generation we are suppose to start in a week or so we will see how that goes. What I wanted was to start with the very first B1 In Search of the Unknown, I have the module but none of the maps of Quasqueton. (I could try to produce something based on the room descriptions) it would be nice to have the original of something close to use. Also where in Mystara might this be taking place Suggestions of the Barony of Ratik, the Duchy of Tenh or the Theocracy of the Pale from GREYHAWK are given what are the Mystara equivalents. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 20:07:00 -0700 From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: New to list / hunting for B1 Todd Myers wrote: > Also where in Mystara might this be taking place > > Suggestions of the Barony of Ratik, the Duchy of Tenh or the Theocracy of the Pale from GREYHAWK are given what are the Mystara equivalents. As a general rule, I find that Karameikos is a good fit for "default" D&D adventures, and you don't get much more default than B1! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:29:50 EDT From: Todd Myers Subject: Re: New to list / hunting for B1 Yes that was also my thinking I have the Karameikos box set so that is where I will prob start The area described implies that it is close to barbarian tribes (Rogahn and Zelligar having helped stop a invasion) I was wondering where this might fit. I suppose I could change the story to a Orc, Kobold, Hobgoblin, invasion. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 00:52:34 -0500 From: Jeff Heikkinen Subject: Re: New to list / hunting for B1 Todd Myers wrote: > Yes that was also my thinking I have the Karameikos box set so that is where I will prob start > The area described implies that it is close to barbarian tribes (Rogahn and Zelligar having helped stop a invasion) I was wondering where this might fit. Bordering barbarians? Some suggestions might be: 1. Ostland (I think, whichever of the three Northern Reaches nations is the most civilized), with the barbies being one of the other two Nothern nations 2. Absolutely anywhere that borders Ethangar 3. Maybe Norwold Or any number of places outside Brun that less has been written about. Of course, the "barbarians" could also be more sympathetic (at least to me) characters such as displaced Traladar or crusading Ylari tribesmen, which could put you right back in Karameikos. -- "The vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 00:56:53 -0500 From: Daniel Subject: Re: New to list / hunting for B1 They had the location in B1-9 (the combined modules) but darned if I can find it right now. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 11 Jun 2006 to 12 Jun 2006 (#2006-117) ****************************************************************