Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 15 Jun 2006 to 16 Jun 2006 (#2006-121)
From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system <LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Date: 17/06/2006, 17:00
To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion

There are 7 messages totalling 1874 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. Next Edition of D&D (OT) (3)
 2. RC Skill system (3)
 3. New to list / hunting for B1

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Date:    Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:47:30 +0200
From:    Havard Faanes <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO>
Subject: Re: Next Edition of D&D (OT)

Keep in mind that single classed characters, although
very powerful in their field are very likely to have
other weaknesses. Clever DM's can easily exploit
these. That is probably the best way to encourage
players to see the usefulness of multiclassing.

Håvard


--- Giampaolo Agosta <agathokles@GMAIL.COM> skrev:

> Thorfinn Tait ha scritto:
> > > I'm still just learning 3rd edition.  I was under
> the impression that
> > multi-classing was good, allowing characters to
> improve their weak points
> > and therefore increase their chance of
> survival/usefulness in the long run.
> > Can you explain why multiclassing would be bad,
> and actually make a
> > character weaker?
>
> Simple enough: a 16th level wizard can cast 8th
> level spells. A 14th level wizard with two additional levels of any other
> class cannot cast 8th level spells. His advantages depend on the other
> class, and could include a few hit points (hardly more than 10, even
> if he took the most heavy duty fighting class) or a number of skill
> points (12 at most, IIRC) or a few low level spells and other abilities.
> None of these IMO compensate the loss of an entire level of spells,
> plus a couple more high level spell slots. If you take the
> wizard/priest combination, the effect is even more marked: would you trade 4 high
> level wizard spells for three cure light wounds (when you can probably
> cast limited wish spells that provide more powerful clerical effects
> when needed)?!? Even in a single player game it's a waste of resources --
> in a standard game where there is a single-class priest it's even
> worse.
>
> Balanced multiclasses have the same problems, more
> or less, especially spellcasters.
>
> > The only thing I can think of so far is that the
> single experience table
> > would mean that a character who multiclasses
> would, for example, take his
> > next level as 1st level rogue or 20th level
> wizard.  In that case I suppose
> > I can see that it would be bad, given that the
> experience needed for the
> > level is the same regardless...
>
> Yes, but even if the 1st rogue level was taken
> early, it would weigh over the character's career.
>
> Bye,
>     GP
>
>
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Date:    Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:57:46 +0200
From:    Havard Faanes <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO>
Subject: Re: RC Skill system

--- CAB Davidson <cab_davidson@YAHOO.CO.UK> skrev:

> --- Havard Faanes <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO> wrote:

> > Some more ideas with this system:
> > * The higher number rolled the better. > * Pairs; 11, 22, 33 etc would be considered
> critical
> > successes as long as they were within the
> characters
> > skill range. This would indicate a better success
> > than
> > usual.
> > * Thief skills can only be taken by thieves. In a
> > contest between a Thief and a non thief, you need
> a
> > critical success to beat a Thief's normal success.
> > Only a Thief can beat another Thief's critical
> > success.
>
> I'm going to play over this in my head. Might just
> be
> a great idea.

Most of the ideas were stolen from Unknown Armies and
various incarnations of Chaosium's Basic Role Playing
system....

Credits due and all that... :)

Håvard

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Date:    Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:59:54 +0200
From:    Havard Faanes <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO>
Subject: Re: Next Edition of D&D (OT)

Conversions during a campaign are always problematic.

I didnt understand how you figured out those
conversions though. Besides it sounds like an insanely
powerful character in the first place?

Håvard


--- Anthony Edwards <dalor_darden@YAHOO.COM> skrev:

> I know many people who have the chief complaint
> about
> 3e that they lost alot of character power when this
> new version came out and they converted their
> character.  An example from my game:
>
> Malik "the Freed" was a former slave within the
> Empire
> of Thyatis using the 1st Ed. AD&D and later the 2nd
> Ed. AD&D.  By the time 2nd Ed. came out he was a:
>
> Human Male Neutral Ftr9/Thief10/Cleric5
>
> By the time 3e came out he was a:
>
> Human Male Neutral Ftr9/Thief10/Cleric12/Wiz9 (and
> would have stayed with wizard he claimed until the
> character came to his end or died of old age).
>
> Now, such a character had VERY broad scope and very
> varied abilities and he was very happy with his
> character.  When 3e came out it went thus:
>
> Human Male Neutral Ftr4/Thief6/Cleric10/Wiz9 (epic
> character) who was adventuring with not-so-epic
> characters.
>
> Needless to say, Malik "the Freed" took a major hit
> on
> his power and range of ability.  My player decided
> to
> no longer play Malik in fact and shortly after that
> decided he wanted to play 2nd Ed. again so he could
> have his character back.
>
> I came up with a solution:
>
> Characters can still multi-class in my game in a
> manner similar to 1st Ed. and 2nd Ed.!
>
> You can play your character to 9th level as a
> Fighter.
>
> Then you can play your character to 10th level as a
> Rogue too!
>
> Then you can play your character to 12th level as a
> Cleric...and still only be a 12th level character!
>
> It tends to make powerful characters...yes indeed
> (in
> certain aspects); but it allows my players to feel
> better after 20+ years of playing it one way only to
> have everything they are used to taken out from
> under
> them.
>
> The mechanic is simple:
>
> We don't use prestige classes (only because I didn't
> want to take the time to figure out a way to
> integrate
> them into my system).
>
> You have to use the Base Attack of your new class
> until your level exceeds your former class at which
> time you can choose which you want (but do not add
> them together).
>
> Your saving throws are those of your new class until
> you exceed your old class and can choose which is
> higher of each of the three (but do not add them
> together).
>
> You recieve no new HP until your new class exceeds
> the
> level of your old class; at which time you get a new
> Hit Die equal to your new class (just like the old
> system).  Although, in my system we also don't get
> Hit
> Dice after level 9; but instead only get bonus Hit
> Points based on class (exactly the same as 2nd
> Edition
> bonus HP)
>
> Extra points for stat progression is based on your
> highest level; so if you were a 9th level fighter
> and
> had recieved 2 points to place in your stats, your
> new
> character class would have to reach level 12 before
> you got another point.
>
> Extra skill points are gained for each level of your
> new class; but there is a penalty of -1 per level
> and
> no INT bonus (but INT penalties do apply, which CAN
> result in zero points for a level) until your new
> class exceeds the level of your old class.  FIRST
> LEVEL skill points are spent as normal (with the
> multiplier); but again with no INT bonus, only
> penalties.  Your maximum ranks in a skill are based
> on
> your OLD level until such time as your new class
> level
> exceeds your old class level; but new points may not
> be spent so that a skill progresses beyond your
> current level +3.  This is the most difficult part
> of
> the setup for my game; very difficult to track
> unless
> the DM works with the players at every new level
> when
> spending points.  It also somewhat handicaps classes
> that really count on that first cluster of points to
> spend on lots of different skills. (still not happy
> with the arrangement I've come up with)
>
> New Feats could be gained based on your new level;
> but
> only feats gained from the class level itself. Bonus
> feats due to cumulative level can only be gained
> just
> as bonus Stat points (i.e. a 9th level fighter that
> changed to a rogue wouldn't gain another bonus feat
> until his rogue level reaches 12, but would gain all
> feats from the rogue class itself).
>
> Class special abilites were not stackable until your
> new level exceeds your old level (a Rogue's
> abilities
> would not stack with his old barbarian levels for
> example until his rogue levels exceed his barbarian
> levels).
>
> Players CAN use their other class abilites if they
> choose while their new level is lower than their old
> level; but they can gain no experience for doing so
> and ALSO have a 50% penalty on their next two
> encounters because it takes time to slide back into
> their new habits and let go of old patterns.
>
> The primary thing is how xp works!  I settled on an
> idea that still uses the XP chart from 3e/3.5 that
> places a bit of a restriction on players abusing the
> system of rapid xp progression when they are grouped
> with their friends who are still using their old
> character levels (i.e. Ftr9/Rogue1 grouped with
> Pal9,
> Wiz9, Rgr9 and he gets xp as a level 1 Rogue grouped
> with 3 9th level characters):
>
> A character gains experience at a -50% rate when
> grouped with any character more than two levels
> higher
> than their current character level. Also the
> character
> gains xp as if his character level were an average
> of
> all his character levels (the player still has the
> benefit of previous Hit Points, magic items gained,
> and etc...) AND I do NOT award xp to characters that
> just try to soak xp (meaning they have to contribute
> SOMEHOW to every experience the party has and can't
> just sit around getting xp so that they are safe or
> what have you).  I've found that this still allows
> the
> character to gain experience fast enough to stay
> with
> his fellow adventurers; but not so fast that he ends
> up being a Ftr9/Rogue10 by the time his fellows are
> just a level or so above his Rogue level! (still not
> happy with this either honestly)
>
>
> All this is a little bulky; but then so were
> previous
> versions of Dungeons and Dragons.  Personally I like
> simplicity; but I've found most of my players just
> "Want it the way it was before" and I had to do
> something.
>
> So for those of you that "Want it the way it was
> before" and haven't been satisfied with 3e; hope
> this
> helps a little.
>
>
> Anthony Edwards
> President, Black Magi Press Inc.
>
> (yeah...you haven't heard of us...YET!)
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
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>
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Date:    Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:13:08 +0200
From:    Havard Faanes <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO>
Subject: Re: RC Skill system

Thanks for posting this George,
really impressive work! :)

Håvard


--- George Hrabovsky <george@MADSCITECH.ORG> skrev:

> Here are fragmentary Notes that I Wrote:
>
> Skill Mastery System:
>
> Skills taught by an instructor = weapon skills based
> upon the skill of the teacher.
>
> Time to learn a skill in this way takes:
>
> Basic = ½ time ± 5% per attribute bonus, 10 gp per
> week
>
> Skilled = full time ± 5% per attribute bonus, 25 gp
> per week
>
> Expert = double time ± 5% per attribute bonus, 50 gp
> per week
>
> Master = quadruple time ± 5% per attribute bonus, 75
> gp per week
>
> Grand Master = Eight times normal time ± 5% per
> attribute bonus, 100 gp per week.
>
> Learning on your own: Similar to spell research,
> this allows people to gain skills without needing skill or weapon slots. The
> formula is as follows,
>
> Chance of Success = (Stat + Lvl) x 2 - (Skill Level
> x 3)
>
> Melee weapons are strength based, missile weapons
> are dexterity based . Skill levels are:
>
> Basic = 1, Skilled = 3, Expert = 5, Master = 7,
> Grand Master = 9.
>
> Learning a skill on your own takes twice as long as
> normal.
>
> Using a weapon or skill slot gives you a free chance
> at success.
>
> Failure gives you a +10% chance for the next
> attempt.
>
> Some Specific Skills:
>
> Acrobatics (Dex based)
>
> Base Time: 1 month
>
> Basic: The character can perform impressive feats of
> acrobatics. Success allows the character to
>
>     reduce the effective height of a fall by 10'.
>
> Skilled: Choose one specialty from the list below:
>
>     Manual Dexterity: +1 to any dex-based skill
> other than acrobatics.
>
>     Moving Skill: +25% movement rate.
>
>     Steadiness: +1 to hit with any weapon, or
> perform any precision work.
>
>     Agility: +1 to any movement related skill other
> than acrobatics, -1 to AC.
>
> Expert: Choose one specialty from skilled, if a
> specialty is taken a second time see below:
>
>     Manual Dexterity: as above.
>
>     Moving Skill: the character can leap their level
> in feet up, and twice that across (beyond
>
>         what is normal for the race).
>
>     Steadiness: +1 to surprise or stealth type
> skills.
>
>     Agility: +1 to hit with melee and thrown
> weapons.
>
> Master: Choose another specialty, none can be taken
> more than twice.
>
> Grand Master: As Master.
>
>
>
> Acting (Cha based)
>
> Base Time: 2 weeks
>
> Basic: The character can make a living as an actor.
> The ability to assume a different personality
>
>     or show false emotions convincingly. Allows the
> character to lie convincingly over a
>
>     period of hours.
>
> Skilled: The actor can keep up the fiction for up to
> a week.
>
> Expert: The actor can keep the finction going for up
> to a month.
>
> Master: The actor can keep up the fiction for an
> indefinite period of time.
>
>
>
> Alchemy (Int based)$
>
> Base Time: 3 months
>
> Basic: The character can identify common alchemical
> substances, potions, and poisons. The
>
>     character can also make antidotes for the
> substances, potions, and poisons. Alchemists
>
>     start with this level of skill. Such antidotes
> should have a price of 10 gp per PP of the
>
>     effect they will counteract (with 50% of the
> cost going for ingredients). A day can
>
>     substitute for the cost on a successful Alchemy
> roll.
>
> Skilled: The character can make common alchemical
> substances, potions, and poisons. The
>
>     character can also identify uncommon and
> researched substances, poisons, and potions
>
>     after 1d6 hours per power level of the substance
> being identified in a laboratory. If
>
>     identified, the character can research an
> antidote. Begin gaining 1 Power per level from
>
>     this level on. Alchemists gain this mastery at
> 3rd level. Such potions should have a cost
>
>     of 10 gp per Power of the effect they duplicate
> (with 50% of the cost being for ingredients).
>
>     A day can substitute for every 10 gp of cost on
> a successful alchemy roll.
>
> Expert: The character can research new alchemical
> substances, potions, and poisons. The
>
>     character can identify common alchemical devices
> and constructs. Alchemists gain this
>
>     mastery at 5th level. Research of new potions
> and the like requires 100 gp per day. The
>
>     length of time to perform such research is 7
> days + 1 day per PP of the substance. Ten
>
>     days per Power can substitute for the cost of
> research on a successful Alchemy roll.
>
> Master: The character can make common alchemical
> devices and constructs. The character can
>
>     recognize true alchemy. Begin gaining 2 Power
> per level from this level on, this
>
>     supersedes the 1 Power gained from Skilled
> level. Alchemists gain this mastery at 7th
>
>     level. Alchemical devices are identical to magic
> items except that they can only be
>
>     dispelled by gods or named spirits. Alchemical
> constructs are magical machines which
>
>     likewise are immune to the dispelling of all but
> gods and named spirits. The base cost for
>
>     creating such things are equal to their initial
> value x 5. The actual cost will be their initial
>
>     cost x the total Power for each operation they
> perform. Divide this cost by 100 to determine
>
>     the number of days required. On a successful
> Alchemy roll this cost can be converted
>
>     into time on a ten days = 100 gp ratio.
>
> Grand Master: The character can begin the Great
> Work.
>
>
>
> Alertness (Dex based)
>
> Base Time: 1 week.
>
> Basic: Draw a weapon without losing an action.
> Negate the effects of surprise. Wake-up at the
>
>     slightest out-of-place sound.
>
> Skilled: Ability to negate surprise the round prior
> to its need.
>
> Expert: Ability to negate the effects of a sprung
> trap.
>
> Master: Ability to detect and fight invisible beings
> with only a -2 detriment, rather than the
>
>     normal -4.
>
> Grand Master: Ability to fight invisible beings at
> no detriment.
>
>
>
> Alternate Magics (Int based)$
>
> Base Time: 3 Months
>
> Basic: Familiarity with spell casting not of your
> style. Knowledge of the magical powers of
>
>     common beings.
>
> Skilled: Extend familiarity to uncommon beings.
>
> Expert: Extend familiarity to rare beings.
>
> Master: Extend familiarity to very rare beings.
>
> Grand Master: The character can use magic items
> which would not otherwise be possible due to
>
>     class restrictions.
>
>
>
> Animal Empathy (for a spcific animal type) (Wis
> based)
>
> Base Time: 2 Months
>
> Basic: The character can communicate intuitively
> with the type of animal specified.
>
> Expert: The character can form a telepathic link
> with their type of animal.
>
> Grand Master: The character can call 1 HD/level of
> the specified animal type.
>
>
>
> Animal Training (for a specific type of animal) (Wis
> based)$
>
> Base Time: 1 Month
>
> Basic: The character can raise, train, and care for
> their type of animal.
>
> Skilled: The character can train one animal per
> level at once.
>
> Expert: The character can communicate intuitively
> with the animal type.
>
> Master: The character can train an animal in skills
> not normally associated with that animal.
>
> Grand Master: The character can awaken
> mystical/magical/psychic skills within the animal.
>
>
>
> Art (choose type)$
>
> Base Time: 1 Month.
>
> Basic: The artist can make a living at making art.
> +2 to NPC reactions.
>
> Skilled: The artist can make a good living. +3 to
> NPC reactions.
>
> Expert: The artist can trade artwork for specific
> goods and services. +4 NPC reactions.
>
> Master: The artist can make a lavish living with
> their art. +5 NPC reactions.
>
> Grand Master: The artist is wealthy and has
> political power. +6 NPC reactions.
>
>
>
> Artillery (Int based)*
>
> Base Time: 1 Month.
>
> These are large weapons, specified under the weapon
> system for each land.
>
>
>
> Assassin (Str, Int, or Dex for learning only)*
>
> Base Time: 3 months
>
> Basic: If striking from surprise there is a chance
> 50% ± 5% per level difference between the assassin and     the target
> (+ if the difference is in favor of the assassin, - if in the favor of the
> target). Additionally, the     assassin has learned the capabilities of
> hiding, moving silently, concealment of                                        weapons, setting/locating/removing traps, evading capture,
>
> Skilled: +5%
>
> Expert: +10%
>
> Master: + 15%
>
> Grand Master: +20%
>
>
>
> Banditry (Dex based)*
>
> Base Time: 2 Months.
>
> Basic: The bandit has the ability to set ambushes
> and traps in the wild, detect and remove traps in
>
>     the wild, hide and move silently in the wild,
> orienteering, and survive in the wild.
>
> Expert: The bandit gains the ability to disguise
> his/her trail, or the trail of others.
>
> Grand Master: The bandit can sense the presence of
> unnatural creatures in the wild.
>
>
>
> Bargaining (Cha based)$
>
> Base Time: 2 Weeks.
>
> Basic: Allows the character to get the best deal
> possible.
>
> Skilled: 5% Bonus in favor of the character.
>
> Expert: 10% Bonus.
>
> Master: 15% bonus.
>
> Grand Master: 20% bonus.
>
>
>
> Blind Shooting (Dex based)
>
> Base Time: 1 Month.
>
> Basic: The ability to shoot at a target only heard.
>
> Master: The ability to shoot at a target unseen or
> unheard.
>
>
>
> Bravery (Wis based)
>
> Base Time: 2 Weeks
>
> Basic: Ability to resist fear.
>
> Expert: Raise morale of those with the character by
> 1.
>
> Grand Master: +1 Bonus to Save vs Fear of all who
> can see the character.
>
>
>
> Brawling (Str based)
>
> Base Time: 2 Weeks (50% chance of losing 1 hp each
> day)
>
> Basic: The ability to fight crowds (only). Allows
> double damage for each point of strength
>
> bonus. Only ¼ of the damage is real.
>
> Expert: Triple damage per bonus.
>
> Grand Master: Quadruple damage per bonus.
>
>
>
> Burglary (Dex based)*
>
> Base Time: 2 Months
>
> Basic: Allows the burglar to pick locks (with
> suitable tools), climb walls and similar objects, find and remove traps, spot
> hidden hiding places where treasure might be found, evade capture by pursuers,
> hide, move silently, appraise goods, and gain local criminal connections.
>
> Skilled: Can sense danger.
>
> Expert: Can open locks with common items.
>
> Grand Master: Can become invisible while standing
> perfectly still.
>
>
>
> Caving (Wis based)
>
> Base Time: 2 Weeks.
>
> Basic: The character has underground orienteering.
>
> Expert: Can sense danger underground.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ceremony (Wis based)*
>
> Base Time: 1 Month.
>
> Basic: Allows the cleric to perform ceremonies of
> worship, adulthood, marriage, and death.
>
> Skilled: Allows the cleric to perform initiation
> ceremonies. If the cleric is 2nd level or higher
>
> they can perform consecrations of places, people, or
> things.
>
> Expert: If the cleric is 4th level or higher they
> can ordain other clerics. May prepare holy
>
> manuscripts.
>
> Master: If the cleric is 4th level or higher they
> can perform an excommunication.
>
> Grand Master: The cleric may call upon direct divine
> aid: miracles, spiritual servants, or the
>
> appearance of an avatar.
>
>
>
> Cheating (Dex based)$
>
> Base Time: 2 Weeks.
>
> Basic: Winning games of chance by cheating. At the
> beginning of the game make the Cheating
>
> roll. Each oponent gets a cheating roll, a Gambling
> roll at -1, or an Int roll at -4 to
>
> detect the cheating.
>
>
>
> Clericism (Wis based)*
>
> Base Time: 2 Months
>
> Basic: The cleric understands the religious doctrine
> and theology of the religion. The cleric also
>
> understands the administrative concerns of the
> religion.
>
> Expert: The cleric can become inspired to produce
> new revelations and new doctrine. This
>
> includes personal prayers.
>
> Master: The cleric can produce special prayers for
> use only by selected members of the religion.
>
> Grand Master: The cleric can create new general
> purpose prayers for the whole religion.
>
>
>
> Climbing (Dex based)
>
> Base Time: 1 Week
>
> Basic: The ability to climb normal (climbable)
> objects.
>
>
>
> Craft (Dex based) (Choose a craft)$
>
> Base Time: 1 Month
>
> Basic: The character knows one craft. The character
> can make a living with this craft.
>
> Skilled: The character can make a decent living at
> the craft.
>
> Expert: The character is in high demand and is
> recognized for his/her work.
>
> Master: Make a good living off the goods produced.
>
> Grand Master: On a Master work, the character
> creates a +1 magical item.
>
>
>
> Cut Purse (Dex based)*
>
> Base Time: 2 Months
>
> Basic: The cut-purse has the ability to pick
> pockets, perform sleight of hand, spot guards and the
>
> police, spot tails, evade pursuit, hide, and move
> silently.
>
> Skilled: The character can strike a target while in
> a crowd and not be seen.
>
> Expert: Ability to disappear completely into a
> crowd, or to follow someone who can.
>
> Master: The ability to "sense" surveillance.
>
>
>
> Dancing (Dex based)
>
> Base Time: 1 Week
>
> Basic: The character can dance at social events and
> make a good impression. The character has
>
> some grace.
>
> Skilled: The character can make a living as an
> personal escort.
>
> Expert: +1 to all movement related Dex skills (other
> than dancing).
>
>
>
> Danger Sense (Wis based)
>
> Base Time: 2 Weeks.
>
> Basic: The DM makes a roll against your skill, if
> successful the character knows there is
>
> imminent danger. Negates surprise.
>
> Skilled: As above, but up to a minute in advance.
>
> Expert: As above, there is some information about
> the nature of the danger, not usually complete
>
> though (based upon the level of success;
> master-work: complete knowledge, journeyman
>
> level: a good idea of the type of danger, skilled
> level: some idea).
>
>
>
> Deception (Cha based)
>
> Base Time: 1 Week
>
> Basic: The ability to lie convincingly.
>
> Skilled: The character can tell extraordinary tales
> convincingly.
>
> Expert: Empathic powers will not detect the lie. The
> character can pull off small con jobs.
>
> Master: Can fool interrogators. Can pull off big
> cons.
>
> Grand Master: Cannot be detected as lying even by
> ESP or similar powers.
>
>
>
> Detect Deception (Wis based)
>
> Base Time: 2 Weeks.
>
> Basic: Ability to detect lies.
>
> Grand Master: The character can detect grand master
> deceptions.
>
>
>
> Disguise (Cha based)$
>
> Base Time: 1 Month.
>
> Basic: The character can look like someone else. The
> target gets an Int roll to see through the
>
> disguise (less the level of success).
>
>
>
> Drinking (Con based)$
>
> Base Time: 2 Weeks.
>
> Basic: The character can drink without getting
> drunk. First failure, the character is drunk. Second
>
> failure, the character is out cold.
>
>
>
> Endurance (Con based)
>
> Base Time: 2 Weeks.
>
> Basic: The character can perform an arduous task for
> an hour. Check each hour with a -1 penalty
>
> (cumulative after the first hour).
>
>
>
> Engineering (Int based)$
>
> Base Time: 1 Month.
>
> Basic: Planning, designing, building, and evaluating
> major constructions.
>
>
>
> Equestrian (Dex based)$
>
> Base Time: 3 Months.
>
> Basic: The ability to perform amazing feats of
> riding.
>
>
>
> Escape (Dex based)
>
> Base Time: 1 Month.
>
> Basic: Ability to get free from imprisonment (this
> can take a LONG time depedning on the
>
> imprisonment).
>
>
>
> Grand Master: Can escape from magical imprisonment.
>
>
>
> Evade (Int based)
>
> Base Time: 1 Week.
>
> Basic: Ability to elude pursuers.
>
>
>
> Fighter (Str based)*
>
> Base Time: 1 Month.
>
> Basic: The character has the requisite training for
> being a soldier in an army. Specifics: basic
>
> tactics for the type of unit they specialize in,
> knowledge of encampment, rudiments of
>
> fortification, understanding of battle signals,
> understanding of the battlefield itself, and
>
> battlefield leadership ability.
>
> Expert: The character can organize and run an army.
>
> Master: The character has a knack for understanding
> the enemy and identifying weaknesses
>
> once an enemy force has been spotted.
>
> Grand Master: The fighter can inspire followers to
> fight without morale checks.
>
>
>
> Fighting Frenzy (Con based)
>
> Base Time: 1 Month.
>
> Basic: The ability to fight on after reaching 0 hp
> or below. Collapse at the end of the battle, or
>
> when a check is failed.
>
>
>
> Find Traps (Int based)
>
> Base Time: 2 Months.
>
> Basic: The ability to locate hidden traps.
>
>
>
> Food Tasting (Con based)$
>
> Base Time: 1 Week.
>
> Basic: Ability to sense food spoilage, avoiding food
> poisoning.
>
> Skilled: Ability to sense poisons.
>
>
>
> Gambling (Wis based)$
>
> Base Time: 1 Month.
>
> Basic: Ability to win money at games of chance by
> skill rather than cheating.
>
>
>
> Healing (Int based)$
>
> Base Time: 1 Month.
>
> Basic: Ability to treat one set of wounds and
> diagnose illness. A successful roll allows the healer
>
> to cure 1d3 of damage. A success of greater than 3
> allows the healer to know if a disease
>
> is magical or natural.
>
> Skilled: The damage healed is now 1d6. Natural
> illnesses can be cured with an herbal concoction
>
> requiring d10 g.p. or on a successful Nature Lore
> roll following an entire day.
>
> Expert: The damage healed is 1d10. Poisons may be
> treated now, as illnesses were for skilled.
>
> Master: The damage healed is now 1d20. Magical
> illnesses may now be treated as natural
>
> illnesses at skilled, though substitute an Alchemy
> roll for the Nature Lore.
>
> Grand Master: The damage healed is now 3d12.
>
>
>
> Hear Noise (Int based)
>
> Base Time: 1 Week.
>
> Basic: The ability to hear faint noises of
> importance.
>
>
>
> Hiding (Int based)
>
> Base Time: 2 Weeks
>
> Basic: The ability to remain unseen while
> motionless.
>
> Hunting (Int based)
>
> Base Time: 2 Months
>
> Basic: The ability to locate, stalk, and hunt game.
> This confers the ability to move quietly and to
>
> hide. +1 to hit with their primary hunting weapon
> vs. an unsuspecting target. The level of
>
> success determines how many people you can supply
> food for each day.
>
> Skilled: +2 vs unsuspecting targets.
>
> Expert: +3 vs. unsuspecting targets, +1 vs all other
> targets.
>
>
>
> Interrogation (Wis based)
>
> Base Time: 2 Months.
>
> Basic: The character can cause their target to
> reveal facts by just talking with them for a couple
>
> of hours.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Havard Faanes" <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO>
> To: <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] RC Skill system
>
>
> > --- George Hrabovsky <george@MADSCITECH.ORG>
> skrev:
> >
> >> When I was running D&D here is how I did it:
> >
> > snip
> >
> > Sounds like a decent way of handling it!
> >
> > In particular I liked this part:
> >
> >> I also applied the Weapon Mastery System of skill
> >> increases to Skills. I had
> >> an extensive list of what each level of Mastery
> >> allowed you to do with a
> >> skill.
> >
> > Feel like sharing any of this? :)
> >
> > Håvard
> >
> >
>
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------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Jun 2006 05:40:35 -0500
From:    George Hrabovsky <george@MADSCITECH.ORG>
Subject: Re: RC Skill system

No problem.

   George

----- Original Message ----- From: "Havard Faanes" <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO>
To: <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 5:13 AM
Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] RC Skill system


> Thanks for posting this George,
> really impressive work! :)
>
> Håvard
>

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Date:    Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:30:50 -0700
From:    Anthony Edwards <dalor_darden@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Next Edition of D&D (OT)

If you are talking about the conversion of Malik to
3rd Edition; I just used the conversion rules provided
by WotC.

As for how powerful he was, he wasn't any more
powerful than any other party member.  Using my own
way, Malik found himself to be a Ftr9/Rg10/Cl12/Wiz9
with Hit Points comparible to other party members; but
an Attack Bonus less than the parties 19th level
Fighter, saving throws that were rounded out, but
still less in certain areas than other party members
who were 19th and 20th levels, and lots of skills but
none that were on par with others who had remained
more focused.

Just to give an example:

Malik Fighter 9     36,000xp   Generic Ftr9
Malik Ftr9/Rog1     45,000xp   Generic Ftr10
Malik Ftr9/Rog10    90,000xp   Gen Ftr13 (nearly 14)
Mal Ftr9/Rog10/Cl1 100,000xp   Gen Ftr14 (nearly 15)
Mal Ftr9/Rog10/C12 166,000xp   Gen Ftr18
Etc...

So as you can see, Malik has lots of different
abilities; but starts lagging behind in pure fighting
abilities (his Base attack bonus is less) that the
single class fighter has, wouldn't have the higher
level spells, no really high skills in move silently
for his rogue, etc...

Just like in 1st Edition and 2nd Edition that my
players like; but using the 3rd Edition rules.

He isn't more powerful than them; just has a different
focus.  He has only 9d10 Hit Dice plus a few HP
remember (stop getting Hit Dice after level 9).  Trust
me, it works and doesn't produce over powered
characters.  In fact, because he hasn't progressed
beyond 12th level in the example above, he hasn't even
recieved as many bonus points to his stats or bonus
feats that the other party members have recieved.  It
balances out in the end.


Anthony Edwards


--- Havard Faanes <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO> wrote:

> Conversions during a campaign are always
> problematic.
>
> I didnt understand how you figured out those
> conversions though. Besides it sounds like an
> insanely
> powerful character in the first place?
>
> Håvard
>
>
> --- Anthony Edwards <dalor_darden@YAHOO.COM> skrev:
>
> > I know many people who have the chief complaint
> > about
> > 3e that they lost alot of character power when
> this
> > new version came out and they converted their
> > character.  An example from my game:
> > > Malik "the Freed" was a former slave within the
> > Empire
> > of Thyatis using the 1st Ed. AD&D and later the
> 2nd
> > Ed. AD&D.  By the time 2nd Ed. came out he was a:
> > > Human Male Neutral Ftr9/Thief10/Cleric5
> > > By the time 3e came out he was a:
> > > Human Male Neutral Ftr9/Thief10/Cleric12/Wiz9 (and
> > would have stayed with wizard he claimed until the
> > character came to his end or died of old age).
> > > Now, such a character had VERY broad scope and
> very
> > varied abilities and he was very happy with his
> > character.  When 3e came out it went thus:
> > > Human Male Neutral Ftr4/Thief6/Cleric10/Wiz9 (epic
> > character) who was adventuring with not-so-epic
> > characters.
> > > Needless to say, Malik "the Freed" took a major
> hit
> > on
> > his power and range of ability.  My player decided
> > to
> > no longer play Malik in fact and shortly after
> that
> > decided he wanted to play 2nd Ed. again so he
> could
> > have his character back.
> > > I came up with a solution:
> > > Characters can still multi-class in my game in a
> > manner similar to 1st Ed. and 2nd Ed.!
> > > You can play your character to 9th level as a
> > Fighter.
> > > Then you can play your character to 10th level as
> a
> > Rogue too!
> > > Then you can play your character to 12th level as
> a
> > Cleric...and still only be a 12th level character!
> > > It tends to make powerful characters...yes indeed
> > (in
> > certain aspects); but it allows my players to feel
> > better after 20+ years of playing it one way only
> to
> > have everything they are used to taken out from
> > under
> > them.
> > > The mechanic is simple:
> > > We don't use prestige classes (only because I
> didn't
> > want to take the time to figure out a way to
> > integrate
> > them into my system).
> > > You have to use the Base Attack of your new class
> > until your level exceeds your former class at
> which
> > time you can choose which you want (but do not add
> > them together).
> > > Your saving throws are those of your new class
> until
> > you exceed your old class and can choose which is
> > higher of each of the three (but do not add them
> > together).
> > > You recieve no new HP until your new class exceeds
> > the
> > level of your old class; at which time you get a
> new
> > Hit Die equal to your new class (just like the old
> > system).  Although, in my system we also don't get
> > Hit
> > Dice after level 9; but instead only get bonus Hit
> > Points based on class (exactly the same as 2nd
> > Edition
> > bonus HP)
> > > Extra points for stat progression is based on your
> > highest level; so if you were a 9th level fighter
> > and
> > had recieved 2 points to place in your stats, your
> > new
> > character class would have to reach level 12
> before
> > you got another point.
> > > Extra skill points are gained for each level of
> your
> > new class; but there is a penalty of -1 per level
> > and
> > no INT bonus (but INT penalties do apply, which
> CAN
> > result in zero points for a level) until your new
> > class exceeds the level of your old class.  FIRST
> > LEVEL skill points are spent as normal (with the
> > multiplier); but again with no INT bonus, only
> > penalties.  Your maximum ranks in a skill are
> based
> > on
> > your OLD level until such time as your new class
> > level
> > exceeds your old class level; but new points may
> not
> > be spent so that a skill progresses beyond your
> > current level +3.  This is the most difficult part
> > of
> > the setup for my game; very difficult to track
> > unless
> > the DM works with the players at every new level
> > when
> > spending points.  It also somewhat handicaps
> classes
> > that really count on that first cluster of points
> to
> > spend on lots of different skills. (still not
> happy
> > with the arrangement I've come up with)
> > > New Feats could be gained based on your new level;
> > but
> > only feats gained from the class level itself. > Bonus
> > feats due to cumulative level can only be gained
> > just
> > as bonus Stat points (i.e. a 9th level fighter
> that
> > changed to a rogue wouldn't gain another bonus
> feat
> > until his rogue level reaches 12, but would gain
> all
> > feats from the rogue class itself).
> > > Class special abilites were not stackable until
> your
> > new level exceeds your old level (a Rogue's
> > abilities
> > would not stack with his old barbarian levels for
> > example until his rogue levels exceed his
> barbarian
> > levels).
> > > Players CAN use their other class abilites if they
> > choose while their new level is lower than their
> old
> > level; but they can gain no experience for doing
> so
> > and ALSO have a 50% penalty on their next two
> > encounters because it takes time to slide back
> into
> > their new habits and let go of old patterns.
> > > The primary thing is how xp works!  I settled on
> an
> > idea that still uses the XP chart from 3e/3.5 that
> > places a bit of a restriction on players abusing
> the
> > system of rapid xp progression when they are
> grouped
> > with their friends who are still using their old
> > character levels (i.e. Ftr9/Rogue1 grouped with
> > Pal9,
> > Wiz9, Rgr9 and he gets xp as a level 1 Rogue
> grouped
> > with 3 9th level characters):
> > > A character gains experience at a -50% rate when
> > grouped with any character more than two levels
>
=== message truncated ===


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------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:52:31 EDT
From:    Todd Myers <TBMyers317@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: New to list / hunting for B1

=20
I had a hard time getting the pdf to open also  AOL browser could not  handl=
e=20
it but when I tried with just explorer no problem
=20
=20
In a message dated 6/15/2006 1:24:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =20
havardfaa@YAHOO.NO writes:

Here is  a direct link to the  pdf:
http://home.nvg.org/~hoc/Beneath_the_Little_Keep.pdf


---  Havard Faanes <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO> skrev:

> Sounds like you're  players are up for some fun of
> the
> good old fashion  Todd!
> =20
> Will you be setting KotB at Castellan Keep?
> =20
> Oh, if you dont have it already, KenzerCo had some
> free  downloads for their version of B2  at
>
http://www.kenzerco.com/Orpg/hackmaster/ngm_downloads.php
> =20
> The Beneath the Little Keep pdf didnt work when I
>  just
> checked, but it might work if you try it later.
>  Could
> be useful. If not, I should have it somewhere...
> =20
> H=E5vard
> =20
> =20
> --- Todd Myers  <TBMyers317@AOL.COM> skrev:
> =20
> > =20
> > =20
> > Thanks this helps a lot for the placement. looks
> >  like Threshold will be the =20
> > starting point where I can give  the party the
> choice
> > of going to the ruins or=20
>  > to  B2 the keep on the borderlands
> > =20
>  > =20
> > n a message dated 6/13/2006 8:27:44 A.M.  Eastern
> > Daylight Time, =20
> > havardfaa@YAHOO.NO  writes:
> >=20
> > Who  needs books when you have   Thorf?
> >=20
>  >
>
http://mystara.thorf.co.uk/replica/_24_/expert-set-known-world-24.png
>  >=20
> > Using  this location for B1, I would suggest  the
> > Barbarians were Gnolls of the  Death's Head  Tribe.
> >=20
> > H=E5vard
> >=20
> >=20
>  > --- Wizards Shopper  <Demmero@AOL.COM> skrev:
> > =20
> > > =20
> > > In a message dated  6/13/2006  4:02:02 A.M.
> Eastern
> > > Standard Time, =20
>  > >  drake01@HOT.RR.COM writes:
> > >=20
> >  > Could  swear I've seen one  somewhere...Dragon
> >  maybe?
> > > They suggested B1=20
> > > take  place   on the left side of the map near
> > > Darokin,  north of Black=20
> > >  Eagle  Barony.
> > > =20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > =20
> > > I  believe the map you're referring to is in  the
> > D&D
> > > Expert  rulebook  =20
> > > somewhere (blue Elmore cover)...a map of the=20
> >  Known
> > > World with suggested  placement of=20
> >  > various  published modules.
> > > =20
> >  > I don't have it handy,  unfortunately, so I
> can't
>  > say
> > > where they placed  B1...
> >  > =20
> > >
>  >
>
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> >  > =20
> >=20
>  >
>
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> > =20
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End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 15 Jun 2006 to 16 Jun 2006 (#2006-121)
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