Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 28 Jan 2006 to 29 Jan 2006 (#2006-15) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 30/01/2006, 19:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 2 messages totalling 218 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Flaems (was: Flaem race and culture?) (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:39:34 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Flaems (was: Flaem race and culture?) --- Ville V Lahde skrev: > Very little information on them unfortunately. > > First, before I forget: the Flaem discover the > existence of Alphatia very early on, around 400 AC. That is clearly > stated. But it seems that neither side wishes to look for further conflict. > (see for example the timeline in Dawn of the Emperors Gaz) Alright, that was a misremembering on my part. The Dragonlord has some details on the Alphatians clashing with the Dragons of Wyrmsteeth early on in the series. Given their history with the Flaems back on Old Alphatia, they sure arent likely to be very friendly to eachother, though the Followers of Air probably dont have much to gain by going after the Flaems. > Second: I've never read the Dragon trilogy, so it > was a surprise to me that the Erewan and Belcadiz were written as living > in the area during 450-500 AC. The Glantri GAZ suggests that other > settlers come after 700. Alfheim GAZ states that the Erewan leave for > Glantri around 700. > - I couldn't find a reference as to when the > Belcadiz arrived, but they must have done so earlier than the other elves. They > were the original elven leaders in that area, and the Erewan > originally were "adopted" into their culture (from Glantri Gaz). Okay. The novels actually dont mention either of the names for the clans, but "Old Elven Settlements" and "New Elven Settlements" are depicted on the map. This would be long before there would be any break between the clans though, and the humans dont even know enough about them to have learned clan names. > The first descriptive account of the Flaem is in the > Gazetteer, page 4. It hints that at that point they have a highly > religious culture. They seem to worship "the Great Flame" and make human > sacrifices. So, I'd suggest that Radiance hasn't yet become a cultural > focus for them. Their culture has been greatly affected by their > exodus through the planes, most likely also prolonged contact with fire > elemental species. > (The description of their aesthetic culture mentions > brass decorations and religious tattoos.) Interesting details. The Radience is known only to a few people, perhaps something like a predecessor of the current order of the Radience before Rad himself reorganizes it. Would these barbaric rituals be connected with their original worship of Alphaks? I'd see these things begin to fade once the Flaems begin moving away from that Immortal. Perhaps during their first decades on Mystara the > Flaem still regard most of the sentient species they meet as inferior: > either as not worthy of their attention, as dangerous barbarians > (Ethengarians started attacking them in mid 550's) that need > culling, as good sacrifices, as infidels (there is a direct reference > to this in the Gaz)... It will take the humanoids of the Broken > Lands to force them in cooperation with the local humans. The Mystaran > timeline mentions joint operations with the Darokinians after 500 AC. And > even after that they remain pretty aloof. This makes sense. Arrogance certainly seems to be a trait shared by many Flaems in the novels too. > Perhaps their violent religion and their cultural > attitudes could account for the fact that relations with the elves > that arrive in the Flaem lands remain distant for the first three > centuries before the age of mass migrations. > > Looking at the timeline, it seems that the Flaems > are mostly engaged with the neigbouring Ethengarians. The timelines > note that in 585 during the first skirmishes the Ethengars "oppose" > the Flaem. Might this imply that it is actually the Flaem who > precipitate the conflict? Perhaps they are trying to gain the plains for > themselves? Could be. Perhaps the Flaems have learned of the World Mountain (also featured in the DL novels) and seek to gain access to the Spirit World? Håvard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:49:54 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Flaems (was: Flaem race and culture?) --- Havard Faanes wrote: > > Interesting details. The Radience is known only to a > few people, perhaps something like a predecessor of > the current order of the Radience before Rad himself > reorganizes it. I'd say that this is pretty likely the case. As for the whole Rad bit- well, that's always been somewhat problematic IMO. Etienne was (according to Mark of Amber) already Immortal (at least partially) before his assassination in 896 AC, when the d'Ambrevilles got sucked into the Land of Grey Mists, but he didn't realize it, and certainly wasn't a member of the Immortals of Pandius, nor was he known as Rad. Since the d'Ambrevilles didn't return until 979 AC, it would only at that point have been possible for Etienne to assume the role of Rad- but then that means the Temples of Rad are only 21 years old in 1000 AC (Gaz era)!!!! So something else must have occurred. The Temples of Rad must have been organized long prior to the Gaz era. I had supposed once (in a thread on the MMB) that possibly Simon d'Ambreville may have been the one to organize the temples, prior to being driven out of Glantri (because, IMC, Simon is a sinister evangelistic sort of priest). Your suggestion might work, though- have the Temples of Rad be an offshoot of the old Flaemish "religion"- once the Radiance was discovered and studied (which began to happen during the course of the Dragon* series), and the more blatantly sacred aspects of the religion were eliminated by the increasingly intolerant Flaems. Then, when Etienne returned, he simply assumed the aspect and name of "Rad", thus gaining himself a nation of followers, and expanding his power levels greatly. (Note also that the "Great Flame" as seemingly worshipped in that brief passage in Gaz3 doesn't seem to indicate any sort of Immortal- rather, it seems to me that the Flaems there are simply worshipping Fire itself, which would fit with the idea that the Flaems don't follow Immortals.) > Would these barbaric rituals be connected with their > original worship of Alphaks? I'd see these things > begin to fade once the Flaems begin moving away from > that Immortal. Alphaks didn't become Immortal until after the destruction of Alphatia, and the Flaems were not his followers (note that this is a later addendum to the infofmation in Gaz3, which had the Flaemish as originally Alphaks the Immortals' followers. Later products- notably DotE- note that Alphaks was mortal at the time.) >> From Gaz3, in fact, it seems like the Flaemish ancestors actually despise Alphaks for his role in causing the destruction of their home and their subsequent wanderings. Page 16 of Gaz3 notes that Alphaks is a common foe of the Flaems and the Alphatians in Glantri, and DotE mentions that when the Flaems arrived on Mystara, they were free of Alphaks' taint. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 28 Jan 2006 to 29 Jan 2006 (#2006-15) ***************************************************************