Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 13 Feb 2006 to 14 Feb 2006 (#2006-27) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 15/02/2006, 19:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 7 messages totalling 291 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Flaems, Old Alphatians & Elements 2. Alphaks (was: Flaems...) (6) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 08:08:32 +0200 From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Re: Flaems, Old Alphatians & Elements > It's absolutely possible to say that culturally the Alphatians were > dualists - at least the vast majority. Any dissenting opinions would > likely be shouted down by both factions. Of course, I didn't mean that. The point was that in the OD&D cosmology, the four elements are a real thing, a fact verifiable by evidence. Thus a magically developed society won't develop an elemental system that doesn't include the four elements. (Whereas in real world history any old elemental system is just as un/viable. We have examples of systems where there are only two elements, usually air and earth, and no fire or water as concepts.) But of course this doesn't prevent a bipolar debate from arising. It just means that the earth and water must have had some sort of representation in theoretical field before the debate. Ville ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:07:04 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Alphaks (was: Flaems...) Francesco Defferrari ha scritto: > > Well the Alphatian booklet in DotE says on page 4 that "almost every > representative of the [alphatian] race wielded magic". But this refers only > to "pure" alphatians, so maybe among cypris and other races there were more > commoners. Anyway I don't imagine Old Alphatia as a place full of iron and > mechanical golems, I'd rather say that they had a lot of air elementals or > air golems as servants, and a very high magic world. I think the "nobles and > commoners" social system was estabilished only in Mystara, I'd look at the society of Honor Island as a model closer to Old Alphatia than the modern Alphatian society. The people of Honor are mostly of Alphatian or Nithian descent, they're all wizards and priests, and the few non-magic islanders are provided with magical items to overcome their "handicap", rather than relegated to second-class status as in Alphatia. The slave caste of Honor is composed of goblins. So maybe the original Alphatian society was along those lines, except that goblins would have been brought in as replacement for whatever magical servants the Old Alphatians used (maybe some advanced form of the Unseen Servant spell, maybe Air golems or elementals). GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:34:44 -0400 From: Steven Carter Subject: Re: Alphaks (was: Flaems...) I read the quote and shudder. I personally can't wrap my head around that concept. A world FULL of magic users! Egad. I guess I've blocked that out all these years. ;) It does make me think of the depiction of Elfquest's high elves before they "landed" on the World of Two Moons. Their little servant creatures becoming trolls later on. What kind of economy could work in such a place? What sort of professions develop? The common folks surely couldn't have had much magic. Cantrips, blessings, minor potions and charms widely available. Probably a higher life expectancy. Controlled climate, easy to grow your own food, tame animals. The power consumption must have been hideous! Where could all that have come from? The elemental planes? Sucking stars and planets dry, dead and lifeless one at a time? Wouldn't that make a lot of people (?) angry? Sounds like the perfect way to create an Athas. Rambling again. On 14/02/06, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > Francesco Defferrari ha scritto: > > Well the Alphatian booklet in DotE says on page 4 that "almost every > > representative of the [alphatian] race wielded magic". But this refers = only > > to "pure" alphatians, so maybe among cypris and other races there were = more > > commoners. Anyway I don't imagine Old Alphatia as a place full of iron = and > > mechanical golems, I'd rather say that they had a lot of air elementals= or > > air golems as servants, and a very high magic world. I think the "noble= s and > > commoners" social system was estabilished only in Mystara, ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:04:07 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Alphaks (was: Flaems...) Steven Carter ha scritto: > > What kind of economy could work in such a place? What sort of > professions develop? Well, it would not be that different from modern world, probably. With craftsmen specializing in magical objects (i.e., magical versions cars, tv sets, fridges, ovens, lamps and the like). Even though M-U may be powerful, they are necessarily specialized -- can't spend all your time learning all types of spells. Once enough goods circulate, and someone is reaping a profit, financial services and the tertiary will start as well. > The common folks surely couldn't have had much > magic. Cantrips, blessings, minor potions and charms widely > available. Probably a higher life expectancy. Note that healing magic is not part of M-U magic, so it would not be available to the Old Alphatians, who don't seem to have had many clerics -- they were all wizards. > Controlled climate, > easy to grow your own food, tame animals. The power consumption must > have been hideous! Where could all that have come from? The elemental > planes? Sucking stars and planets dry, dead and lifeless one at a > time? Wouldn't that make a lot of people (?) angry? Sounds like the > perfect way to create an Athas. The Alphatian /did/ manage to destroy an entire universe... GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:37:27 +0100 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: Re: Alphaks (was: Flaems...) Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > Note that healing magic is not part of M-U magic, so it would not be > available to the Old Alphatians, who don't seem to have had many > clerics -- they were all wizards. Yeah but from DotE they seem to have a lot of life potion to live longer. I would say that in Old Alphatia people used to live at least two centuries or more.... about clerics I think they didn't have any before landfall in Mystara... I think could have even been written somewhere in the alphatian booklet, but anyway IMC old alphatians hated gods and immortals and avoided them: a mistrust that the Flaem maintained while the new alphatians get over it, probably seeing from the other populations of mystara that immortals and clerics could be useful. >> Controlled climate, >> easy to grow your own food, tame animals. The power consumption must >> have been hideous! Where could all that have come from? The >> elemental planes? Sucking stars and planets dry, dead and lifeless >> one at a time? Wouldn't that make a lot of people (?) angry? Sounds >> like the perfect way to create an Athas. > > The Alphatian /did/ manage to destroy an entire universe... I don't think that magic should be necessarily a unrenewable energy: it could be simply fueled by the spell components and by the "spiritual" or phisical energy of the wizard or by the work of elementals and other creatures. I always assumed that the problem on Athas was that wizards tried to tap too much power all at once, without giving the planet time to replenish itselfs. I think that the alphatian destroyed themselves because they had unresolved and grievous social and political conflicts, as happens in my history and as usually happens in RW history, but obviously this could be a matter of taste for each campaign. bye Francesco ___________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:51:17 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Alphaks (was: Flaems...) Francesco Defferrari ha scritto: > > Yeah but from DotE they seem to have a lot of life potion to live longer. Likely. In Glantri, the Prince of Sablestone is also rumored to have methods to enhance his longevity -- though the methods may not appeal to the faint of heart. > I think that the alphatian destroyed themselves because > they had unresolved and grievous social and political conflicts, as happens > in my history and as usually happens in RW history, but obviously this could > be a matter of taste for each campaign. That's the cause as well IMC, though it doesn't mean that the massive use of magical energies in the conflict didn't cause the damage -- like in a nuclear war, the energy would cause the damage, but obviously the destruction would not be the energy's fault ;) Bye, GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 08:12:52 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Alphaks (was: Flaems...) Giampaolo Agosta wrote: The Alphatian /did/ manage to destroy an entire universe... Well, not a whole universe- just a planet. The Alphatian galaxy still exists, and is still contained within a bubble of air (as seen in module M1: Into the Maelstrom). There are still quite a few inhabitants of that galaxy, as well (at least of the planetary region around the remnants of Old Alphatia, anyway). Many of them are survivors of the Alphatian cataclysm (the inhabitants of Gammar, Belthar, and the other two planetoids whose names I can't recall offhand). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 13 Feb 2006 to 14 Feb 2006 (#2006-27) ***************************************************************