Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 22 Mar 2006 to 23 Mar 2006 (#2006-57) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 24/03/2006, 19:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 11 messages totalling 548 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Blackmoor Immortals (7) 2. Any good programs for dungeon mapping ? (4) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:37:58 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Blackmoor Immortals --- Giampaolo Agosta skrev: > Havard Faanes ha scritto: Another possibility is > Yoosef, > > who is a deity of the earth and a healer (almost > > preserver). > > That would fit Ka -- he has a focus on preserving, > not on a specific race (in modern Mystara, he is patron of humans, > tortles, and lizardkin). Yoosef for Ka then! Tsartha will probably end up being Diamond. > Yes, the dragon rulers were certainly around, though > not the same individuals as the current rulers. Yeah, thats what I was thinking. I'll see if I can find good candidates for Pearl and Opal... > > something a Norn would do. OTOH, certain writeups > > seems to suggest Verthandi is male. (Couldnt find > > Marco's writeup at the moment). > > Yes, Verthandi is portrayed as a male (IIRC, in the > Master Set). Weird, I always thought it was one of the Norns. In case he should definately be female. Still not sure what to look for in a counterpart for this one then... Calitha: > Maybe she's not known in the northern continent, > only by the sea elves and in Evergrun/Grunland. Possibly. The FCC also had > > Khoronus - Khoronus > Then I suppose we should keep him in the > Blackmoorian version. 200 years don't change much from the modern Mystaran point of > view. Agreed! > I think a mix should be used. Those Immortals whose > people were entirely destroyed in the GRoF probably died. Others may be > weakened. Few would have left Mystara, unless they were reclusive powers > to begin with. Yeah. In any case we dont have to make definite decisions on any of these. > Yes. Usually the discrepancies may be related to > different perceptions of the same individual by different cultures. Yeah :) Håvard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:14:35 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Blackmoor Immortals Havard Faanes wrote: > Yes, Verthandi is portrayed as a male (IIRC, in the > Master Set). Weird, I always thought it was one of the Norns. In case he should definately be female. Still not sure what to look for in a counterpart for this one then... Well, nothing's keeping you from making him a female. Gender among the Immortals is just a holdover from their mortal days, and there are certainly cases of Immortals taking on other gendered (or non-gendered) identities. The one that springs to mind immediately, of course, is Nyx, who is known and worshipped as Zargos among Hollow World Milenians. Hel sort of has an "alternate" identity as Balthac. I'm sure there are a couple of others I can't recall offhand. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:05:17 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Blackmoor Immortals Havard Faanes ha scritto: > >> I think a mix should be used. Those Immortals whose >> people were entirely destroyed in the GRoF probably died. Others may be >> weakened. Few would have left Mystara, unless they were reclusive powers >> to begin with. > > Yeah. In any case we dont have to make definite > decisions on any of these. OTOH, in some cases there may be a bias from the modern Mystaran Immortals -- e.g., the Dwarves, Kogolor and Denwarf alike, do not worship the Blackmoorian Dwarven pantheon, so one might well think that the members of that pantheon were wiped out during the GRoF, otherwise, given the characters of dwarves, they would be still remembered, at least by the Kogolor. Other Blackmoorian powers, like Mwajin, may fit more easily in modern Mystara -- they might well have survived in lesser known civilizations, e.g. Tangor. Bye, GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:15:11 -0400 From: Steven Carter Subject: Re: Blackmoor Immortals Hmm, if I were an Immortal, bad things happened to my people, they blamed m= e and cast me aside what would I do if I still loved them and didn't want to fade away? I know my people better than anything else. I'll masquerade as someone else, a new Immortal. I'll send avatars into their midst to shepherd them along and encourage the most courageous. On 23/03/06, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > > Havard Faanes ha scritto: > > > >>I think a mix should be used. Those Immortals whose > >>people were entirely > >>destroyed in the GRoF probably died. Others may be > >>weakened. Few would > >>have left Mystara, unless they were reclusive powers > >>to begin with. > > > > Yeah. In any case we dont have to make definite > > decisions on any of these. > > OTOH, in some cases there may be a bias from the modern Mystaran > Immortals -- e.g., the Dwarves, Kogolor and Denwarf alike, do not > worship the Blackmoorian Dwarven pantheon, so one might well think that > the members of that pantheon were wiped out during the GRoF, otherwise, > given the characters of dwarves, they would be still remembered, at > least by the Kogolor. > > Other Blackmoorian powers, like Mwajin, may fit more easily in modern > Mystara -- they might well have survived in lesser known civilizations, > e.g. Tangor. > > Bye, > GP > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:25:05 -0500 From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Any good programs for dungeon mapping ? Hi, I am looking for a good program/web-site with which I could do square dungeon maps, preferably something free. Anyone has any suggestions ? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:28:36 -0600 From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Any good programs for dungeon mapping ? Do a Google search for AutoRealm. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilles Leblanc" To: Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Any good programs for dungeon mapping ? Hi, I am looking for a good program/web-site with which I could do square dungeon maps, preferably something free. Anyone has any suggestions ? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:29:29 -0500 From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Any good programs for dungeon mapping ? Thanks. On 3/23/06, George Hrabovsky wrote: > > Do a Google search for AutoRealm. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gilles Leblanc" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 12:25 PM > Subject: [MYSTARA] Any good programs for dungeon mapping ? > > > Hi, I am looking for a good program/web-site with which I could do square > dungeon maps, preferably something free. Anyone has any suggestions ? > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:47:12 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Blackmoor Immortals Steven Carter ha scritto: > Hmm, if I were an Immortal, bad things happened to my people, they blamed me > and cast me aside what would I do if I still loved them and didn't want to > fade away? > > I know my people better than anything else. > > I'll masquerade as someone else, a new Immortal. I'll send avatars into > their midst to shepherd them along and encourage the most courageous. Some may certainly have done so, but Kagyar, e.g., can't be one of the old Dwarven gods, because he has already a different history. OTOH, this could well be true for other Immortals, such as the ones mentioned in the earlier posts by Havard. Note that the major issues are with the Elven, Dwarven and Halfling pantheons: they are quite large, yet none of their members seems to have survived to the modern age -- this is especially true for the Elven and Dwarven pantheons, while the Halfling Immortals, being less detailed, may accomodate some older Immortals. Bye, GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:29:26 -0000 From: Mark Howard Subject: Re: Blackmoor Immortals Given that Ordana was the creator of the elves, on Mystara, wouldn't she have been their main patron, pre GRoF? And only since their urbanisation under Blackmoor did they move away from her path. -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of Giampaolo Agosta Sent: 23 March 2006 18:47 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Immortals Steven Carter ha scritto: > Hmm, if I were an Immortal, bad things happened to my people, they blamed me > and cast me aside what would I do if I still loved them and didn't want to > fade away? > > I know my people better than anything else. > > I'll masquerade as someone else, a new Immortal. I'll send avatars into > their midst to shepherd them along and encourage the most courageous. Some may certainly have done so, but Kagyar, e.g., can't be one of the old Dwarven gods, because he has already a different history. OTOH, this could well be true for other Immortals, such as the ones mentioned in the earlier posts by Havard. Note that the major issues are with the Elven, Dwarven and Halfling pantheons: they are quite large, yet none of their members seems to have survived to the modern age -- this is especially true for the Elven and Dwarven pantheons, while the Halfling Immortals, being less detailed, may accomodate some older Immortals. Bye, GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 00:14:05 -0300 From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes - USP Solar" Subject: Re: Blackmoor Immortals Does Mr. Arneson have a say on this? I have no material to help with such list - but will learn from it for sure! Congratulations, Giampaolo e Havard (gee, I=20 couldn't find the "a" with the One Ring above it in my keyboard!) Vini At 05:26 22/3/2006, you wrote: > Gaimpaolo asked for a conversion table between > Mystaran Immortals and Blackmoor deities. > > I'm still working on this, but here is what I've got > so far: > > Odin - Odir > Ordana - Ordana > Ixion - Sollus > Thanatos - Thanatos > Protius - Hydros > Faunus - Faunus > Terra - Terra > Ka - Tsartha (She is a female dragon godess though...) > Korotiku - (Hersh and Phellia are possibilities. Hersh > fits the trickster aspect, but Phellia fits the spider > one. She is female though.) > > Hel - Hella > Calitha - Mwajin (He is male though) > Kagyar - Kadis > Valerias - Tilla > > Verthandi - Yoosef? (Okay, not sure about this one, or > what would fit here) > > Great Dragon - Innsellageth (The current great one is > probably not that old, but it is mentioned that he was > not the first Great Dragon...) > > Comments? > > H=E5vard > > > --- Giampaolo Agosta skrev: > > > Havard Faanes ha scritto: > > > > > >>The following Immortals were certainly around > > during > > >>the Blackmoorian > > >>age: Protius, Faunus, Terra, Ka, Korotiku, Hel, > > >>Calitha, Kagyar, > > >>Valerias and Verthandi. Would it be possible > > >>(easy/difficult) to find > > >>parallels in the Blackmoor books as well? > > > > > > > > > Hey Giamaolo, > > > sorry I forgot to answer this one. > > > > It's no problem at all. > > > > > Protius, Faunus and > > > Hel also have obvious counterparts in Blackmoor. > > > > Good. > > > > > I > > > have a couple of candidates for Kagyar, though > > I'll > > > have to think about which dwarven patron would fit > > the > > > best. I'll see if I can find some for the others > > as > > > well. > > > > Though he doesn't need to have been one of the > > original dwarven patrons, > > IIRC he took notice of the dwarves after the GRoF. > > > > > Thanks for providing me a list of which to look > > for! > > > :) > > > > You're welcome. Of course, if you can provide a > > conversion table, then > > I'd be even more happy ;) > > > > Bye, > > GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:10:17 -0500 From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Any good programs for dungeon mapping ? Gilles, Try this on for size: http://www.dndresources.com/index.php?autocom=icontent&CODE=02&cat=43 I have Dungeoncrafter, it is pretty simple to use. The dungeoncrafter site is down, but a google search found this treasure trove! It also turned up some other sites that may be helpful in learning the program. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilles Leblanc" To: Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:25 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Any good programs for dungeon mapping ? Hi, I am looking for a good program/web-site with which I could do square dungeon maps, preferably something free. Anyone has any suggestions ? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 22 Mar 2006 to 23 Mar 2006 (#2006-57) ***************************************************************