Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 17 May 2006 to 18 May 2006 (#2006-99) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 19/05/2006, 17:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 13 messages totalling 800 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Immortals? or Gods? (11) 2. Immortals or Gods (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 09:12:10 -0300 From: Steven Carter Subject: Re: Immortals? or Gods? I never played AD&D so much that any of my characters even reached 10th level. Yet I have heard stories about other PCs who became demi-gods. I don't know if there was ever a game mechanic that covered this or if it was just in-campaign material. There have been players from Greyhawk who had an absolute requirement for an equivalent to St Cuthbert or Iuz the Old. There have been players from the Realms who had an absolute requirement for an equivalent to the Harpers, Elminster, Mystra or Tempus. I simply tell them that we're not playing Greyhawk, we're not playing Realms, it's Mystara and it's different. Those gods simply don't have a following here because the mortals, in the beginning of time, discovered a way to become as powerful as gods and transcend mortality. It's a secret path but there are a lot of ascended ones and they have probably been actively wiping out the "dangerous cults" of the "foreign gods". Now, if you really NEED to have your paladin worship Tempus, then keep it in mind that your paladin will either die as a mortal or become a servant of Tempus for eternity. He'll never become a god. Not on this world anyway. And if the Immortals find out they'll ALL hunt you down and destroy you. Worshipping gods on Mystara is like yelling "Jesus Saves" in the middle of a communist party general convention in 1950s Soviet Union or Beijing. It might, however make for an interesting campaign if some gods and Immortals cross marketed themselves (their brands) across the planes. On 17/05/06, Daniel wrote: > But it is true. You put what you want in your game. TSR/Wizards isn't > there to look over your shoulder. You choose what materials you play > with, what you buy, what you create. If you want to toss Forgotten Realm > Gods into the mix, go ahead. If you want to go out and buy 7th Sea and > convert some of it to your campaign for Darokin, why the hell not? > > As for the DM =3D Satanist. Not going to even go there. Already lived > though all that close-minded B.S. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 14:59:49 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Immortals? or Gods? Steven Carter ha scritto: > I never played AD&D so much that any of my characters even reached > 10th level. Yet I have heard stories about other PCs who became > demi-gods. I don't know if there was ever a game mechanic that > covered this or if it was just in-campaign material. There's something on the lines of the Master Set rules, but much less detailed -- in the DM's Option: High Level Campaigns (not one of the most popular AD&D books, though). GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 23:08:02 +0900 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: Immortals? or Gods? Roger requested that this be forwarded to the list, so here it is. Enjoy! Thorf --------------------------------------------------------------- On the MML, an old topic came up--Gods vs. Immortals. Although I subscribe to the MML, I don't post to it, because of problems with my E-Mail service--they always get sent back as rejected. So I'll post my thoughts here. IMC, gods of other campaigns and immortals of Mystara are one in the same, only the propensity for ascention is greater in Mystara. As proof of my "theory": 1-In DL, Raistlin ascends to near godhood, even so that he is referred to, in DL canon, as a demigod. At the end of "Dragons of Summer Flame" all the dead heroes from the War of the Lance are discovered to be "living" in the heavens, overlooking the world. 2-In FR, reference the Avatar Trilogy--Cyric, Kelemvor and Midnight all become full-fledged gods. 3-Also in FR, Bane, Bhaal, and a third god (I don't have my reference material at hand) are referred to as the "Dead Three" and all have mortal history. Bane, in particular, is stated that, during his mortal life, he swore to become a god from the very beginning. 4-In GH, most of the core deities, and nearly all of the "extras" have b/g stories as mortals. Reference "Faiths and Pantheons" I don't know about Eberron. 5-The new 3.5 Deities and Demigods has an entire chapter on ascending from mortality to godhood. The god-powers are divided into groupings of levels, which correspond quite easily to immortal ranks, with 0-5 levels of "Demigod" being associated with "Initiate" and 21+ levels of "Over Power" being equivelant of "Hierarch". 6-Certain "Gods" and "Immortals" are quite easily, and explicitly one-and-the-same (also leading to the suggestion that all the gods and their associated campaign worlds, whether via a shared cosmology, Spelljammer, or Planescape, are all coexistant with each other, but that is another topic). Primarily Garal Glitterlode and Kurtulmak, not to mention those who are obvious equivelants like Pelor and Ixion. 7-According to Ed Greenwood's "The Wizards Three" and the Ravenloft setting, inter-world clerics still recieve their spells by their own deities, even if that deity doesn't have a counterpart on the current world. (Again, suggesting a singular shared inter-setting cosmology between the settings.) 8-Every adventure and accessory preceeding (and some printed after) the "Set 5: Immortals Rules" all Mystaran immortals were referred to as gods, giving way to the idea that the common folk think of the immortals as gods, and not until Master (Epic, in my conversion) levels when PCs are allowed to learn the existance of the paths of immortality, do mortals make any distinction between god and immortal. (On this aspect, IMC, I try to express to my players that their PCs worship Gods, even though the players themselves know the difference.) 9-The only possible problem is the over-abundance of Over-Powers/Hierarchs. But I think, due to the high-powered levels of Mystara, it is appropriate. While most campaigns have a handful of epic-level NPCs, and one or two over-powers, Mystara has thousands of Epics, and apropriately dozens of Hierarchs. There are more Immortal canidates simply because there are more people--specifically high-level people. It's a matter of statistics and probabilities. (The Known World [a quarter of a continent] has a population aproximate to that of Faerun [a whole continent] and about 50% more than Ansalon [half a world]. Only Oerth has a greater population density, and their commoner-to-adventurer population ratio is vastly removed from the other settings.) With that said, I think, there is enough evidence that immortal=god. On a side note, I've always been of the opinion that all the campaign settings exist as various planets in the same universe, in the same (and only) Prime Material Plane, with a singular, shared cosmology (being, in fact, somewhere between the Great Wheel and the Multiverse). The apparent differences in cosmologies between the settings is due to he sage's limited, and incomplete understanding of planar cossmology--with Mystara and GH sages being the closest to truth, but still a bit off. Food for thought, Roger P.S. Would someone plese post this message to the MML for me, so that List-Only folks can share their thoughts on this topic. (And reply here when you do so, to prevent 20 people from sending the same message to the list.) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 08:33:07 -0700 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Immortals? or Gods? Ok Thanks Roger for your response. Actually most of you were kind of off = track? Or maybe I wasn't clear enough. My argument actually was a response = to why isn't their more adventures with a Mystara setting? Most adventures = have to deal with Clerics and this god or that. Not immortals, hence = eliminating the doorway for Mystara adventures. Even independent D20 = modules all go with Gods. Can anyone at all name one module that refers to = immortals outside of Mystara? I can't. So in that aspect those who do play = Mystara and hope to see Mystara related stuff are not going to see much of = it. All the campaign games, D20 modules and adventures in Dungeon all make = it easy to crossover for which God the adventure is based on. For Mystara = conversion you have to open the Broken Door, unwedge it, then make it fit. = That's why you won't see much Mystara related material.=20 I was saying that if Mystara had Gods, then many adventures may or may not = refer to Mystara Gods for conversion. But since we don't have Gods in = Mystara that is highly unlikely.=20 :) Joe Joe Kelly Office Services Clerk DAVIS & COMPANY LLP Suite 2800, Park Place 666 Burrard Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6C 2Z7 Phone 604.643.6365 This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 10:42:49 -0500 From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Immortals? or Gods? I think you are missing the point. Why can't you just use the gods but call them immortals? George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Kelly" To: Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Immortals? or Gods? Ok Thanks Roger for your response. Actually most of you were kind of off track? Or maybe I wasn't clear enough. My argument actually was a response to why isn't their more adventures with a Mystara setting? Most adventures have to deal with Clerics and this god or that. Not immortals, hence eliminating the doorway for Mystara adventures. Even independent D20 modules all go with Gods. Can anyone at all name one module that refers to immortals outside of Mystara? I can't. So in that aspect those who do play Mystara and hope to see Mystara related stuff are not going to see much of it. All the campaign games, D20 modules and adventures in Dungeon all make it easy to crossover for which God the adventure is based on. For Mystara conversion you have to open the Broken Door, unwedge it, then make it fit. That's why you won't see much Mystara related material. I was saying that if Mystara had Gods, then many adventures may or may not refer to Mystara Gods for conversion. But since we don't have Gods in Mystara that is highly unlikely. :) Joe Joe Kelly Office Services Clerk DAVIS & COMPANY LLP Suite 2800, Park Place 666 Burrard Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6C 2Z7 Phone 604.643.6365 This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 09:07:26 -0700 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Immortals? or Gods? You can, but the issue was for this topic was this: Question: Why is there not more Mystara related material? Answer: Due to the "No Gods they are Immortals" there won't be. It's too = Campaign Specific. All Campaigns and Independent Adventure Publishers use = Gods. If Mystara doesn't, Mystara won't see much attention.=20 Joe Kelly Office Services Clerk DAVIS & COMPANY LLP Suite 2800, Park Place 666 Burrard Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6C 2Z7 Phone 604.643.6365 >>> george@MADSCITECH.ORG 05/18/06 08:42am >>> I think you are missing the point. Why can't you just use the gods but call them immortals? George ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Joe Kelly" To: Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Immortals? or Gods? Ok Thanks Roger for your response. Actually most of you were kind of = off=20 track? Or maybe I wasn't clear enough. My argument actually was a = response=20 to why isn't their more adventures with a Mystara setting? Most adventures= =20 have to deal with Clerics and this god or that. Not immortals, hence=20 eliminating the doorway for Mystara adventures. Even independent D20 = modules=20 all go with Gods. Can anyone at all name one module that refers to = immortals=20 outside of Mystara? I can't. So in that aspect those who do play Mystara = and=20 hope to see Mystara related stuff are not going to see much of it. All = the=20 campaign games, D20 modules and adventures in Dungeon all make it easy = to=20 crossover for which God the adventure is based on. For Mystara conversion= =20 you have to open the Broken Door, unwedge it, then make it fit. That's = why=20 you won't see much Mystara related material. I was saying that if Mystara had Gods, then many adventures may or may = not=20 refer to Mystara Gods for conversion. But since we don't have Gods in=20 Mystara that is highly unlikely. :) Joe Joe Kelly Office Services Clerk DAVIS & COMPANY LLP Suite 2800, Park Place 666 Burrard Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6C 2Z7 Phone 604.643.6365 This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 11:15:08 -0500 From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Immortals? or Gods? Mystara has been out of commission in any official way for ten years. No one wants to pay for the license. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Kelly" To: Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Immortals? or Gods? You can, but the issue was for this topic was this: Question: Why is there not more Mystara related material? Answer: Due to the "No Gods they are Immortals" there won't be. It's too Campaign Specific. All Campaigns and Independent Adventure Publishers use Gods. If Mystara doesn't, Mystara won't see much attention. Joe Kelly Office Services Clerk DAVIS & COMPANY LLP Suite 2800, Park Place 666 Burrard Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6C 2Z7 Phone 604.643.6365 >>> george@MADSCITECH.ORG 05/18/06 08:42am >>> I think you are missing the point. Why can't you just use the gods but call them immortals? George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Kelly" To: Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Immortals? or Gods? Ok Thanks Roger for your response. Actually most of you were kind of off track? Or maybe I wasn't clear enough. My argument actually was a response to why isn't their more adventures with a Mystara setting? Most adventures have to deal with Clerics and this god or that. Not immortals, hence eliminating the doorway for Mystara adventures. Even independent D20 modules all go with Gods. Can anyone at all name one module that refers to immortals outside of Mystara? I can't. So in that aspect those who do play Mystara and hope to see Mystara related stuff are not going to see much of it. All the campaign games, D20 modules and adventures in Dungeon all make it easy to crossover for which God the adventure is based on. For Mystara conversion you have to open the Broken Door, unwedge it, then make it fit. That's why you won't see much Mystara related material. I was saying that if Mystara had Gods, then many adventures may or may not refer to Mystara Gods for conversion. But since we don't have Gods in Mystara that is highly unlikely. :) Joe Joe Kelly Office Services Clerk DAVIS & COMPANY LLP Suite 2800, Park Place 666 Burrard Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6C 2Z7 Phone 604.643.6365 This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 01:30:44 +0900 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: Immortals? or Gods? > You can, but the issue was for this topic was this: > > Question: Why is there not more Mystara related material? > Answer: Due to the "No Gods they are Immortals" there won't be. It's too Campaign Specific. All Campaigns and Independent Adventure Publishers use Gods. If Mystara doesn't, Mystara won't see much attention. Joe, I think you are missing the point still: Immortals are just gods with a different name. Literally, because they were originally gods and only got changed to Immortals as an afterthought, for political correctness reasons. But I do see what you mean - even if Immortals = Gods, the mere difference in terminology may put people off from even considering them for inclusion in current materials. It's a mistaken assumption that they are significantly different, but you are right that most probably make that assumption anyway. Thorf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 09:38:56 -0700 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Immortals? or Gods? Yes, Thorf that sadly is true. I don't understand why game designers = consider them so different. With the political correctness issue, it makes = it hard for Mystara to make any sort of comeback. Hopefully the Dungeon = issue may? or may not write the article as Gods/Immortals in the adventure = series. But don't hold your breath.=20 Joe=20 Joe Kelly Office Services Clerk DAVIS & COMPANY LLP Suite 2800, Park Place 666 Burrard Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6C 2Z7 Phone 604.643.6365 >>> thorf@CHOKAI.NE.JP 05/18/06 09:30am >>> > You can, but the issue was for this topic was this: > =20 > Question: Why is there not more Mystara related material? > Answer: Due to the "No Gods they are Immortals" there won't=20 > be. It's too Campaign Specific. All Campaigns and Independent=20 > Adventure Publishers use Gods. If Mystara doesn't, Mystara=20 > won't see much attention.=20 Joe, I think you are missing the point still: Immortals are just gods with = a different name. Literally, because they were originally gods and only got changed to Immortals as an afterthought, for political correctness = reasons. But I do see what you mean - even if Immortals =3D Gods, the mere = difference in terminology may put people off from even considering them for inclusion in current materials. It's a mistaken assumption that they are significantly different, but you are right that most probably make that assumption anyway. Thorf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 01:48:06 +0900 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: Immortals? or Gods? > Yes, Thorf that sadly is true. I don't understand why game designers consider them so different. With the political correctness issue, it makes it hard for Mystara to make any sort of comeback. Hopefully the Dungeon issue may? or may not write the article as Gods/Immortals in the adventure series. But don't hold your breath. I'm 99% sure it will be gods. The thing is, it's not really that important a detail. By their very nature, gods are not that hard to convert to, or just outright replace with the appropriate Mystara Immortal. They don't have a lot of stats, and what few they do have aren't at all important unless you're talking about epic play. I don't think Mystara suffered that badly from the political correctness whacky stick, though. Most changes were entirely cosmetic - gods became Immortals, demons became fiends, etc. It's really rather easy to turn them back. Thorf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 09:53:06 -0700 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Immortals? or Gods? True but I recall one time reading on a message board that Mystara doesn't = really fit with other D&D source material because "they use Immortals". It = was a lame argument I agree, but everyone jumped on board comparing to = Mystara to D&D worlds was like comparing GURPS to D&D. Mystara didn't = really "measure up". Of course after the extensive Mystara bashing I = decided not to try to defend it. Everyone was slamming Mystara as they = said Mystara left the realm to most fantasy settings. It was years ago, = but that kind of stuff hurt Mystara. Joe Joe Kelly Office Services Clerk DAVIS & COMPANY LLP Suite 2800, Park Place 666 Burrard Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6C 2Z7 Phone 604.643.6365 >>> thorf@CHOKAI.NE.JP 05/18/06 09:48am >>> > Yes, Thorf that sadly is true. I don't understand why game=20 > designers consider them so different. With the political=20 > correctness issue, it makes it hard for Mystara to make any=20 > sort of comeback. Hopefully the Dungeon issue may? or may not=20 > write the article as Gods/Immortals in the adventure series.=20 > But don't hold your breath.=20 I'm 99% sure it will be gods. The thing is, it's not really that important a detail. By their very nature, gods are not that hard to convert to, or just outright replace = with the appropriate Mystara Immortal. They don't have a lot of stats, and = what few they do have aren't at all important unless you're talking about epic play. I don't think Mystara suffered that badly from the political correctness whacky stick, though. Most changes were entirely cosmetic - gods became Immortals, demons became fiends, etc. It's really rather easy to turn = them back. Thorf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 15:37:47 -0400 From: WikanWay Subject: Immortals or Gods As has been said whether they are Immortals or Gods is simply a matter = of what you want to call them. The Immortals of Mystara could easily be = converted to say Forgotten Realms or vice versa. The fact that are = called Immortals was probably just a way to differentiate the two game = systems(D&D vs. AD&D at the time).If using FR the Immortals would be the = "regular pantheon" where as The Old Ones would be more compared in a way = to Ao or an aspect of Ao. And in other things the demands of society of = the time would have to be met or risk all the D&D bashing that happened = anyway. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 12:44:55 -0700 From: "Richard B." Subject: Re: Immortals or Gods But don't almost all Immortals start out as mortals? --- WikanWay wrote: > As has been said whether they are Immortals or Gods > is simply a matter of what you want to call them. > The Immortals of Mystara could easily be converted > to say Forgotten Realms or vice versa. The fact that > are called Immortals was probably just a way to > differentiate the two game systems(D&D vs. AD&D at > the time).If using FR the Immortals would be the > "regular pantheon" where as The Old Ones would be > more compared in a way to Ao or an aspect of Ao. And > in other things the demands of society of the time > would have to be met or risk all the D&D bashing > that happened anyway. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 17 May 2006 to 18 May 2006 (#2006-99) ***************************************************************