Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 18 Aug 2007 to 19 Aug 2007 (#2007-75) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 20/08/2007, 17:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 6 messages totalling 342 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Ideas for Mystara pdfs? 2. D&D 4e and Mystara (5) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:47:48 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Ideas for Mystara pdfs? Speaking of creating pdfs for Mystara material, collecting information in order to make it more accessible to folks, what are some ideas for books like this that people would like to see? The FGaz series is one examples of such books. I'm hoping Traianus or Roger over at the MMB eventually will make a 3e Monster Manual collecting the monsters converted in that thread over there. What other things would people like to see? Havar _________________________________________________________ Alt i én. Få Yahoo! Mail med adressekartotek, kalender og notisblokk. http://no.mail.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:11:14 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: D&D 4e and Mystara --- Joe Mason wrote: That's also why > I was worried > about exact level conversions of higher-level > characters. Level conversions is one of the topics which it has been very hard to reach a consensus on. I dont think we have to agree on such things, especially if it gets in the way of doing actual conversions. It is better if people simply state which model of conversions used in each example and then others can pick and choose according to their own preferences. :) Havard _________________________________________________________ Alt i én. Få Yahoo! Mail med adressekartotek, kalender og notisblokk. http://no.mail.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:40:21 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: D&D 4e and Mystara --- Joe Mason wrote: > - it was really hard to map level 1-36 characters on > to level 1-20: > not enough range. Do we try to make level 36 equal > level 20, or make > the top levels of BD&D into Epic Level characters in > 3E? My impression is that levels 21-30 in 4E still will be considered Epic, so IMO we should stick with the model(s) we have developed for conversions from Classic D&D to 3E if converting to 4E. I suspect dealing with the few NPCs who have epic levels will be easier in 4e though. > - low-level 3E characters are much more powerful > than in BD&D How important is this really though? When taking into account that the same will affect both PCs and NPCs/Monsters? > - Elves are really hard to deal with due to the > settings assumption > that all elves are inherantly magical. There are a couple of ways to get around this. Personally, I think this is fairly preserved by Elves having Wizard as their Favoured Class. There is also that feat "elven magical Training" available at the M3E site which I think works well. There is also the Racial Classes, but I personally dont care much for those. > They're speculating that paladin may become a > prestige class, which is > exactly how it worked in BD&D. Huzzah! :) Havard _________________________________________________________ Alt i én. Få Yahoo! Mail med adressekartotek, kalender og notisblokk. http://no.mail.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:43:06 EDT From: Erol Bayburt Subject: Re: D&D 4e and Mystara In a message dated 8/19/2007 4:40:49 AM Central Daylight Time, havardfaa@YAHOO.NO writes: > > - Elves are really hard to deal with due to the > > settings assumption > > that all elves are inherantly magical. > > There are a couple of ways to get around this. > Personally, I think this is fairly preserved by Elves > having Wizard as their Favoured Class. There is also > that feat "elven magical Training" available at the > M3E site which I think works well. There is also the > Racial Classes, but I personally dont care much for > those. My own preference is to give elves Bard as their Favored Class, with Bard being given a few tweaks to make it a bit more martial (raise hit dice from d6 to d8, add medium armor proficiency back in, take away whip proficiency and give longbow proficiency instead.) Gnomes then get Wizard as their Favored Class instead of Bard. Finally, something I've had on the back burner for a while but haven't yet worked out to my satisfaction is an "Elven NPC" class. I prefer most NPCs to have NPC classes in my version of Mystara, but none of the existing NPC classes fit elves. For the NPC-Elf class, I'm thinking of something along the lines of "d6 hit dice, same weapon & armor proficiencies as my modified Bard, same spellcasting as Bard, but few or none of the Bard special class abilities. Of course the concept is influenced by my whole attitude toward NPC and prestige classes. I know that many gamers see no point to the NPC classes and think that NPCs should just be given low levels of PC classes, with PCs having higher levels & prestige classes. But I've come to loathe prestige classes[1], and my preference is to make extensive use of the NPC classes and to add new ones when a new, specialized class is needed. PCs *can* take levels in those classes, but since the NPC classes are deliberately weaker than the PC ones, they mostly won't. [1] I especially loathe the "game" of multiclassing with prestige classes to produce munchkin uber-builds. "How about bard 2/fighter 2/milkmaid 3/rennet 1/munchkin cheese X? Let's see you beat that!" ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:35:09 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: D&D 4e and Mystara --- Erol Bayburt wrote: > My own preference is to give elves Bard as their > Favored Class, with Bard being given a few tweaks to make it a bit more > martial (raise hit dice from d6 to d8, add medium armor proficiency back in, take away > whip proficiency and give longbow proficiency instead.) Gnomes then get Wizard > as their Favored Class instead of Bard. Interesting! Would it not be easier though to give them a variant of the Ranger class, though a Ranger using Arcane spells instead of Divine ones? Pretty much the same result, but with fewer mods to the class involved... > But I've come to loathe prestige > classes[1], and my preference is to make extensive use of the NPC classes and to add > new ones when a new, specialized class is needed. PCs *can* take levels > in those classes, but since the NPC classes are deliberately weaker than the PC > ones, they mostly won't. I like PrCs in theory, but I usually dont allow them in my campaigns. Your thoughts on NPC classes are interesting though. > [1] I especially loathe the "game" of multiclassing > with prestige classes to produce munchkin uber-builds. "How about bard > 2/fighter 2/milkmaid 3/rennet 1/munchkin cheese X? Let's see you beat that!" I agree. Players who will get into this kind of attitude can easily ruing any game session. Fortunately my players are too lazy for that. IMO your post illustrates why having different ways of making conversions to 3E should not have to lead to flame wars or conflict. Surely there can be more than one good way to port things into a new ruleset? Surely having the choice between several options for conversions should be a good thing? Havard _________________________________________________________ Alt i én. Få Yahoo! Mail med adressekartotek, kalender og notisblokk. http://no.mail.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 14:40:30 EDT From: Erol Bayburt Subject: Re: D&D 4e and Mystara In a message dated 8/19/2007 12:35:25 PM Central Daylight Time, havardfaa@YAHOO.NO writes: > --- Erol Bayburt wrote: > > > My own preference is to give elves Bard as their > > Favored Class, with Bard > being given a few tweaks to make it a bit more > > martial (raise hit dice from d6 to > d8, add medium armor proficiency back in, take away > > whip proficiency and give > longbow proficiency instead.) Gnomes then get Wizard > > as their Favored Class > instead of Bard. > Interesting! Would it not be easier though to give > them a variant of the Ranger class, though a Ranger > using Arcane spells instead of Divine ones? Pretty > much the same result, but with fewer mods to the class > involved... I seriously considered that, but Rangers get too little magic, too late to match my view of Mystara elves. Also, while the 3.5 "wilderness ninja" version of the Ranger is more elf-like than the 3.0 "woodland paladin" version, I very much prefer the "woodland paladin" vision as what I think a Ranger *ought* to be. (I see Rangers as not being merely wilderness types, but as being wilderness types with some aspect of nobility about them. This aspect can take a variety of forms - actual nobility or royalty in a wilderness exile, a rustic palidinhood with the character being noble in spirit if not in blood, a big-hearted & big-souled mountain of a mountain man - but there should be *something* that makes a Ranger something other than just a warrior or rogue who happens to have a lot of wilderness skills and abilities. IMO, of course; I'm very much aware that others don't always share my view of Rangers.) Besides, I'd be inclined to give Bards a slight martial upgrade anyway; the standard version is a bit weak IMO. That the result happened to fit my view of Mystara elves - "merry elves, who can do both fighting and magic" was just a happy coincidence. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 18 Aug 2007 to 19 Aug 2007 (#2007-75) ***************************************************************