Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 26 Jan 2008 to 27 Jan 2008 (#2008-15) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 28/01/2008, 19:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 18 messages totalling 934 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Thyatis in Norwold (5) 2. coinage (3) 3. coinage and GP's Specularuam Trade Guilds (10) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:47:47 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Thyatis in Norwold It seems official sources don't go into much detail on this topic. However, the guys on the Italian MMB came up with this timeline proposal for Norwold: http://www.pandius.com/nrwldtml.html GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:23:52 -0500 From: Greg Weatherup Subject: coinage ok, I found out that Mackays guide, my previously sole source on electrum, = has some problems regarding the electrum entry, so ignore pretty much every= thing I wrote previously about RW electrum. At any rate this discussion on coin weights is interesting but I fear a bit= beyond a level I had wanted to get into, so let me see if I can summarize = the last couples days discussion back to generalities: For coins of the sam= e size (let me repeat that.. of the same size) Ag/Ae at 120/lb and Au/Pt at= 60/lb, elecrtum at 90/lb is what everyone seems to be saying as a general = default/mainstream RW guideline. correct? Assuming yes.... What size does that work out to? using 5760 grains or 373= .24g per troy pound (someone double check my=20 math here please): Ag/Ae 48 grains or 3.11g Au/Pt 96 grains or 6.22g elect. 64 grains or 4.15g Using some of those density figures that would mean (again, someone please = double check my math) a little more than a third of a cubic centimeter for = Copper/Bronze/Brass. While that number doesn't really mean anything in my = head, it does seem kinda small, does it to anybody else? I need to think m= ore in terms of diameter and thickness. Lets assume 3mm thickness. 1/3 cu= . cm. =3D about 333 cu. mm. divide by thickness of 3mm =3D approx. 111 sq.m= m. Sqrt. of that would be approx. 10.5 mm diameter !!!!! Thats one puny co= in! Unless my math off somewhere??? (for comparison an american dime is n= ot quite 18mm, and it is the smallest sized coin in circulation, and which = while its not no 3mm thick it still had 38.58 grains for the pre-1965 90% s= ilver 10% copper versions). even assuming 2mm thickness (thinner than I im= agined for D&D coins) I get about 13.5mm diameter, and I have to go all the= way down to 1mm thickness (which is about what an american dime is I think= ) to get 19mm (comprable to an american dime but yet with more grains). Is= my spreadsheet off somewhere? Lets try silver: 0.296 cm3. @ 3mm thickness: about 10mm diameter, 2mm thic= kness: 12mm diameter, 1mm thickness: 17mm diameter. Still very small. Gold: 0.323 cm3. @ 3mm thickness: 10mm diameter, 2mm thickness: 13mm diame= ter, 1mm thickness: 18mm diameter. Small. Platinum: 0.289 cm3. @ 3mm thickness: 10mm diameter, 2mm thickness: 12mm d= iameter, 1mm thickness: 17mm diameter. Small. Electrum (I'll use a density figure of 14.875): 0.279 cm3. @ 3mm thick: 9.= 5mm diameter, 2mm thick: 12mm diameter, 1mm thick: 16.5mm diameter. yup, s= mall again. Unless my spreadsheet (or math formula) is off somewhere, all of these are = coming out awfully small.... For a grain to grain comparison how's this- from above I had: Ag/Ae 48 grains or 3.11g Au/Pt 96 grains or 6.22g elect. 64 grains or 4.15g 48 grains for Copper/Bronze/Brass is equal to American small cents (pennies= ) from 1864 till 1982 for a Bronze coin. some other examples- not quite ha= lf the size of a old Australian half-penny (87.5 grains in Bronze) or a lit= tle bigger than an Australian 1 cent (40 grains), or about two-thirds the s= ize of a Austrian Schilling (4.2g, though admitedly its part aluminum). Ca= nadian small 1 cents in 1980-1981 were 42.72 grains and the old large cents= 1919-1920 were 50 grains, both in Bronze. 48 grains for silver would be slightly larger than an old pre-civil war sil= ver dime (of 41.25 grains) which was of the same size as the modern dime bu= t slighly thicker. For other examples: a little bigger than twice the size= of a old Australian threepence (21.8 grains). A third again the size of t= he Canadian Silver dimes 1920-1967 (36 grains) or about a quarter the size = of the old British half crowns (14.138g) 64 grains for electrum. There's not many electrum coins nowadays for compa= rison but in gold the American quarter eagle was 64.5 grains gold (at least= before it became a bullion coin, I'm not sure nowadays, but when it was a = circulating coin it was slightly larger than a dime, but I don't know how t= hick), the next closest American equivalent would be the rare 20c piece (18= 75-1878 of .9 fine silver, I don't know how thick but it is slightly smalle= r than a quarter and weighed 5 grams). 96 grains for gold. I don't know of any near equivalents in American gold = coins but the pre-1965 quarters were 96.45 grains but in silver (so what's = that work out to? about half the size of a quarter of the same thickness?). (If any one wants I can try to find some examples from other countries...). In all these seem to be comming out awfully smaller than I imagined, unless= my math is off. I'm wondering if this is a case where realism should be s= et aside in order to have larger coins. I've never handled any gold, platinum, nor electrum coins so I can't commen= t on them, though I'll note that in the 1500s the 22 carat british gold pou= nd coin you could get 33/lb and were more in the 170s grain range (see http= ://www.friesian.com/coins.htm). I've handled both large and small copper/brass/bronze coins (the larger one= s being older with a high intrinsic value, the smaller ones being fiat and/= or fiduciary), and I always tended to think of D&D coins as being more like= the larger one's (another note: the old coppers were large because in the = RW copper was a lot less valuable than Silver, not so much the case in D&D = economies).=20=20 As for silver coins that I am familiar with, there are two types: The commo= n small ones such as pre-1965 American dimes, three- & sixpence coins from = the UK or Australia, and I also know of several RW examples which I am not = personally familiar with (ie the Panama Pill, worlds smallest circulating s= ilver coin). Then I am also familiar with larger ones, such as British flo= rins and half-crowns, 1936 50 centimes from French Indochina, 1926 Un Sol f= rom Peru, etc. (I would say pre-1965 American quarters are an oddity, inbe= tween the two). Now, while the British and Peruvian ones are only 50% silv= er, I also know of (but am not personally familiar with) other large silver= coins of highish purity. I am confused by this contradiction of two categ= ories, and again I always pictured my PCs and NPCs interacting with coins m= ore like the larger ones. Of course it should be noted for comparison that= from the same friesian source that the British sterling silver penny was 2= 00-500 per pound and had 24-10 grains, thus getting even smaller than I tho= ught still. Oy! how did this message get to be soo long! I think thats a long enough m= essage for tonight. I'll reply to the other parts tomorrow as I need to ge= t some sleep before work, but I real quick also want to reply to Erol: I believe your numbers are a bit off but I get your point. I think you use= d an Avoirdupois pound (7000 grains or 453.59g) instead of a Troy pound (57= 60 grains or 373.24g). Using Troy, and ignoring some of the wartime compo= sitions of the 1940s and ignoring some of the special bicentennial issues, = it works out as: American Pennies 1864-1982 (Bronze): 120/lb, since 1982 (Copper coated zinc= ): 149/lb. Nickels since 1866 (Cupronickel or copper-nickel if you prefer)= : 75/lb. Dimes 1873-1964 (Silver): 149/lb, since 1965 (Clad): 164/lb. Qua= rters 1873-1964 (Silver): 60/lb, since 1965 (Clad): 66/lb. Half Dollars 18= 73-1964 (Silver): 30/lb, 1965-1970 (Silver Clad): 32/lb, since 1971 (Clad):= 33/lb. (I don't have the statistics on the Sacagawea and Presidential dol= lars in front of me at the moment but now that I've got a spreadsheet set u= p I can easily find these out for you if you want). whew, thank the immortals for spreadsheet programs, all these calculations.= ... Greg Weatherup GWxup@excite.com Gecko_G@email.com http://members.fortunecity.com/gecko_g/ --=20 Want an e-mail address like mine? Get a free e-mail account today at www.mail.com! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:07:38 -0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C1tila_Pires_dos_Santos?= Subject: Re: Thyatis in Norwold Hm, it's funny that just now I realised that Thyatis did some conquests/colonizations (SC Baronies, Oceansend, Traladara...) at the same time, in AC 900. Is there any canon explanation for this? On 1/27/08, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > > It seems official sources don't go into much detail on this topic. > However, the guys on the Italian MMB came up with this timeline > proposal for Norwold: > http://www.pandius.com/nrwldtml.html > > GP > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:43:33 -0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C1tila_Pires_dos_Santos?= Subject: Re: coinage and GP's Specularuam Trade Guilds Indeed, but its SC direct descendent, Hojah, also bears a Lion in its coat of arms as well Lions are common as heraldic charges at the SC, especially in Bellayne and Terra Le=E3o=E7a, but there's a good reason for that (it's a rakasta nation= ) =3D) And we also have the Heldannic Knights, but I guess the three lions are completely unrelated. The traladarans also use some other heraldic charges that are not commonly found elsewhere, like the Lymphad (GAZ 1 uses one of those as the "City Guard" Coat of Arms, possibly being Specularum CoA as well; and in K:KoA, the Radu family also uses a Lymphad. This may mean that, in the past, the Radu and the Marilenev families were very close and that when traladaran were conquered by Thyatis and they kept the Lymphad as the symbol of Specularum, both Marilenev and Radu changed their CoA (could possibly Marilenev's modern CoA be related to Halag's lion?)). Some of the modern SC city-states CoAs also brings some different charges, like Nova Svoga's star or Slagovich's wyvern. On 1/26/08, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > > On 26/01/2008, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > > > Is there any cannon or fanfic describing why a lion is the heraldic > symbol of old Halag? Interestingly the lion as a heraldic feature is far > less common in Mystara than as in the RW. > > > > IIRC, K:KoA has heraldry for Halag, displaying a lion rampant on a > > field party per saltire, argent and azure. > > But no reason is given... > > GP > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 16:45:05 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: coinage On 27/01/2008, Greg Weatherup wrote: > > Assuming yes.... What size does that work out to? using 5760 grains or 373.24g per troy pound (someone double check my > math here please): > Ag/Ae 48 grains or 3.11g > Au/Pt 96 grains or 6.22g > elect. 64 grains or 4.15g Ok. > Thats one puny coin! Unless my math off somewhere??? No, it seems ok. A coin of 2 cm diameter and 1 mm thickness would be circa 0.31 cm3. At 2.1 cm diameter and 3 mm thickness it's 1 cm3. > and I have to go all the way down to 1mm thickness (which is about what an american > dime is I think) to get 19mm (comprable to an american dime but yet with more grains). > Is my spreadsheet off somewhere? No, it's probably right. Ancient gold and silver coins were indeed small and thin. > Unless my spreadsheet (or math formula) is off somewhere, all of these are coming out awfully small.... I'd start from 2mm thick and 2 cm wide. It gives a 6.28 g silver coin -- it's only about 60/pound, but it's more or less the size of a 10 eurocents, or the 5 US cents. A similarly weighed copper/bronze coin would be larger (larger than a 20 eurocents or 1/4 US dollar). These make for good sized coins. Gold and electrum coins will be necessarily smaller, with electrum sized at 1.8 cm x 1.8 mm (like a 2 eurocent coin), and gold at 1.6 cm x 1.6 mm (like the 1 eurocent coin or the US dime). Larger coins will still be possible, e.g. the large glantrian penny. GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 07:52:24 -0800 From: "Richard B." Subject: Re: Thyatis in Norwold Thanks, I'll have a look at it. R. Giampaolo Agosta wrote: It seems official sources don't go into much detail on this topic. However, the guys on the Italian MMB came up with this timeline proposal for Norwold: http://www.pandius.com/nrwldtml.html GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:07:31 -0800 From: "Richard B." Subject: Re: Thyatis in Norwold Yes, Cape Alpha was destroyed by Northlander mercs working for Alphatia just a couple of years after its founding. R. la Volpe wrote: I don't have the books with me but I think that Cape Alpha was destroyed and no official Thyatian settlement was founded in Norwold until 900 AC (Oceansend). I assume that there has been a slow build-up, for instance after the alliance between Ostland and Thyatis, more and more Thyatian ship have sailed northwards toward Heldann and Norwold to trade and maybe build some farms and merchantile outposts (or, more probably, use and expand upon the harbours of already existing communities). The increased trade required a sort of official stance, so Oceansend was founded as a reference site for all the Thyatians in the area and for future Thyatian interests in the region. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Praefectus Castrorum of the XIVth Cohort Redstone (Saxa Rubra), Thyatis "Richard B." ha scritto: According to Dawn of the Emperors there was a Thyatian presence in Norwold as early as 14 AC with the founding of the trade post Cape Alpha in the Great Bay. The info was vague enough, however, that I just assumed they had already been there before 14 AC, but it never says when they first made contact with that region. I suppose the near constant fighting with Alphatia and the Northern Reaches could explain the 886 year gap between the foundings of Cape Alpha and Oceansend, so I suppose it's not out of the question for explorers to discover Norwold anywhere up to two or three hundred years before that. Does that sound reasonable? Steven Carter wrote: One could follow the pattern of European enterprises in North America before the first official colonies were established to extrapolate details. It might go back 500 or more years easily. Depends on what the Thyatians think they can get out of the place and if private endeavours could get past the reavers from the Northern Reaches realms. When did Alphatia first get involved in the area. If Thyatis knew the Alphies were interested they would ( most likely ) be interested too unless some ignorant fool said, "Let the Alphies freeze in the dark if they like." On 26/01/2008, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > On 26/01/2008, Richard B. wrote: > > Does anyone know when Thyatis began poking around up there? I can't seem to tack down when this first occurred. > > Oceansend was founded in 900 AC, IIRC. > However, Thyatian presence in Norwold could date back to earlier times. > > GP > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 14:15:43 -0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C1tila_Pires_dos_Santos?= Subject: Re: coinage and GP's Specularuam Trade Guilds On 1/25/08, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > > > > well might I sugest use the alloy one for Slagovich and the SCCB for the > other city states? > > That's very reasonable, considering that Slagovich has certainly more > access to Red Steel/Cinnabryl than the others. OTOH, Cinnabryl is poisonous for anyone outside the cursed regions and even if it was different, use Cinnabryl for currency would deplete its properties when in contact with living creatures, reverting it into Red Steel ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 11:46:11 EST From: Erol Bayburt Subject: Re: coinage In a message dated 1/27/2008 8:24:23 AM Central Standard Time, gecko_g@EMAIL.COM writes: > Oy! how did this message get to be soo long! I think thats a long enough message for tonight. I'll reply to the other parts tomorrow as I need to get some sleep before work, but I real quick also want to reply to Erol: > > I believe your numbers are a bit off but I get your point. I think you used an Avoirdupois pound (7000 grains or 453.59g) instead of a Troy pound (5760 grains or 373.24g). Yes, I used the Avoirdupois pound rather than the Troy pound. My bad. My own preference, in whatever fantasy game system I'm using, is for a "medium" weight coin to be ~5g. If the system has coins weighing between 2.5 and 10 grams, then that's acceptable to me. Especially since I like to house-rule into existence half-value and/or double-value coins of half and double the standard weight, circulating along with the normal coins. For electrum at 90 per Avoirdupois pound, each coin would weigh 5.04g, with gold coins being heavier and Ag/Ae lighter. If using Troy pounds, the coins would come off on the small side, as you noted. If you want your coins to be on the larger side, then 30/45/60 per Troy pound would work better for you. The coins would then be very close in size to the US quarter-dollar. ************** Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:00:18 -0800 From: "Richard B." Subject: Re: Thyatis in Norwold Somehow the second half of my response didn't make it last time. Go figure. Anyway, this all sounds right to me. Since the building of Cape Alpha was a violation of treaty, I assume that not much Thyatian activity occurred after 15 AC, when the Cape was destroyed (and I was wrong on the date of its founding. 14 AC should be 12 AC). la Volpe wrote: I assume that there has been a slow build-up, for instance after the alliance between Ostland and Thyatis, more and more Thyatian ship have sailed northwards toward Heldann and Norwold to trade and maybe build some farms and merchantile outposts (or, more probably, use and expand upon the harbours of already existing communities). The increased trade required a sort of official stance, so Oceansend was founded as a reference site for all the Thyatians in the area and for future Thyatian interests in the region. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Praefectus Castrorum of the XIVth Cohort Redstone (Saxa Rubra), Thyatis "Richard B." ha scritto: According to Dawn of the Emperors there was a Thyatian presence in Norwold as early as 14 AC with the founding of the trade post Cape Alpha in the Great Bay. The info was vague enough, however, that I just assumed they had already been there before 14 AC, but it never says when they first made contact with that region. I suppose the near constant fighting with Alphatia and the Northern Reaches could explain the 886 year gap between the foundings of Cape Alpha and Oceansend, so I suppose it's not out of the question for explorers to discover Norwold anywhere up to two or three hundred years before that. Does that sound reasonable? Steven Carter wrote: One could follow the pattern of European enterprises in North America before the first official colonies were established to extrapolate details. It might go back 500 or more years easily. Depends on what the Thyatians think they can get out of the place and if private endeavours could get past the reavers from the Northern Reaches realms. When did Alphatia first get involved in the area. If Thyatis knew the Alphies were interested they would ( most likely ) be interested too unless some ignorant fool said, "Let the Alphies freeze in the dark if they like." On 26/01/2008, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > On 26/01/2008, Richard B. wrote: > > Does anyone know when Thyatis began poking around up there? I can't seem to tack down when this first occurred. > > Oceansend was founded in 900 AC, IIRC. > However, Thyatian presence in Norwold could date back to earlier times. > > GP > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:04:43 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: coinage and GP's Specularuam Trade Guilds On 27/01/2008, =C1tila Pires dos Santos wrote: > > OTOH, Cinnabryl is poisonous for anyone outside the cursed regions and ev= en > if it was different, use Cinnabryl for currency would deplete its propert= ies > when in contact with living creatures, reverting it into Red Steel That's also true, but for mass payments, it would be still appropriate (at least for internal trade). Also, Red Steel alloys would still be usable even in the worst case. GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:17:16 -0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C1tila_Pires_dos_Santos?= Subject: Re: coinage and GP's Specularuam Trade Guilds On 1/27/08, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > > On 27/01/2008, =C1tila Pires dos Santos wrote: > > > > OTOH, Cinnabryl is poisonous for anyone outside the cursed regions and > even > > if it was different, use Cinnabryl for currency would deplete its > properties > > when in contact with living creatures, reverting it into Red Steel > > That's also true, but for mass payments, it would be still appropriate > (at least for internal trade). Also, Red Steel alloys would still be > usable even in the worst case. That's a interesting possibily. But the main use for it would be the Cinnabryl trade between Slagovich and the baronies, then. But in this case, would Slagovich uses both currencies, from VotPA and SCCB= ? And why the Cinnabryl/Red Steel coins don't have traladaran names, pehaps a direct descendant from coins used by the LB centuries ago? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:22:17 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: coinage and GP's Specularuam Trade Guilds On 27/01/2008, =C1tila Pires dos Santos wrote: > > That's a interesting possibily. But the main use for it would be the > Cinnabryl trade between Slagovich and the baronies, then. > But in this case, would Slagovich uses both currencies, from VotPA and SC= CB? Possible, or a mix of the two. > And why the Cinnabryl/Red Steel coins don't have traladaran names, pehaps= a > direct descendant from coins used by the LB centuries ago? Likely, though they might also have Traladaran name, if someone translates them ;) GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:53:39 -0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C1tila_Pires_dos_Santos?= Subject: Re: coinage and GP's Specularuam Trade Guilds On 1/27/08, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > > On 27/01/2008, =C1tila Pires dos Santos wrote: > > > > That's a interesting possibily. But the main use for it would be the > > Cinnabryl trade between Slagovich and the baronies, then. > > But in this case, would Slagovich uses both currencies, from VotPA and > SCCB? > > Possible, or a mix of the two. But if the currencies are somewhat mixed, we need to make the Dark as equal to the Stonik, and Dim as the same of Viller, instead of having both Dark and Dim 10 times more valuable. Also, the original LB coins likely didn't have any cinnabryl or red steel, using a more standart copper/silver/gold standart. If these coins are used only as LB historical coins, this means that they won't be as described by the VotPA series (anyway, I dout Dim is the most common coin at the SC in modern times, as the VotPA states). And finally, why would Slagovich send the Cinabbryl to the other side of th= e Gulf mixed with silver (that probably comes from Almarr=F3n) and copper instead of pure cinnabryl? > And why the Cinnabryl/Red Steel coins don't have traladaran names, pehaps > a > > direct descendant from coins used by the LB centuries ago? > > Likely, though they might also have Traladaran name, if someone > translates them ;) lol =3D) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:17:50 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: coinage and GP's Specularuam Trade Guilds On 27/01/2008, =C1tila Pires dos Santos wrote: > > But if the currencies are somewhat mixed, we need to make the Dark as equ= al > to the Stonik, and Dim as the same of Viller, instead of having both Dark > and Dim 10 times more valuable. Why? > Also, the original LB coins likely didn't have any cinnabryl or red steel= , > using a more standart copper/silver/gold standart. If these coins are use= d > only as LB historical coins, this means that they won't be as described b= y > the VotPA series (anyway, I dout Dim is the most common coin at the SC in > modern times, as the VotPA states). Yes, that's unlikely. > And finally, why would Slagovich send the Cinabbryl to the other side of = the > Gulf mixed with silver (that probably comes from Almarr=F3n) and copper > instead of pure cinnabryl? Indeed, the cinnabryl coins are the weakest. GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 16:59:11 -0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C1tila_Pires_dos_Santos?= Subject: Re: coinage and GP's Specularuam Trade Guilds On 1/27/08, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > > On 27/01/2008, =C1tila Pires dos Santos wrote: > > > > But if the currencies are somewhat mixed, we need to make the Dark as > equal > > to the Stonik, and Dim as the same of Viller, instead of having both > Dark > > and Dim 10 times more valuable. > > Why? Because, if I got it right, both the Dark and the Dim worth ten times more than it's copper and silver couterparts elsewhere. So, if we have a mixed currency, instead of only having both currencies being used side by side, w= e would need to deal with this difference. All in all, I think that's simply easier to use the VotPA currency as the old LB's, using copper (Dark), silver (Dim), Fair (electrum) and Bright (gold). ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:13:18 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: coinage and GP's Specularuam Trade Guilds On 27/01/2008, =C1tila Pires dos Santos wrote: > > Because, if I got it right, both the Dark and the Dim worth ten times mor= e > than it's copper and silver couterparts elsewhere. I think that could be a problem mostly because these values are probably not comparable with the values given for red steel in SCCS (IIRC, a red steel coin would be about 2 sp, thus a copper coin with, say, 5% red steel, would be worth 2 cp rather than 10). Other than that, there's no problem if these coins have different values. GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:09:22 -0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C1tila_Pires_dos_Santos?= Subject: Re: coinage and GP's Specularuam Trade Guilds On 1/27/08, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > > On 27/01/2008, =C1tila Pires dos Santos wrote: > > > > Because, if I got it right, both the Dark and the Dim worth ten times > more > > than it's copper and silver couterparts elsewhere. > > I think that could be a problem mostly because these values are > probably not comparable with the values given for red steel in SCCS > (IIRC, a red steel coin would be about 2 sp, thus a copper coin with, > say, 5% red steel, would be worth 2 cp rather than 10). Other than > that, there's no problem if these coins have different values. Sure, but that's just one problem, and probably the easiest so solve (but having to change what VotPA stated, anyway and thus not following this cano= n source). Use the Cinnabryl alloy is still much more problematic (and again, it could be used if a proper explanation and some changes are made, but then, again, it would diverge from what canon is saying). So, in order to stay closer to canon, I'd just use SCCB currency for the city-states. The names for the coins can still be used for the LB currency, especially because they fit nicelly the "english" LB trade language and the very descritive, simple names the LBs love to give to the Immortals, things and places. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 26 Jan 2008 to 27 Jan 2008 (#2008-15) ***************************************************************