Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Jan 2008 to 31 Jan 2008 (#2008-18) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 01/02/2008, 19:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 3 messages totalling 346 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Ethereal creatures (2) 2. Mystaran Numismatics - Karameikos ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:25:20 -0500 From: Robert Hartley Subject: Re: Ethereal creatures Thanks for the help. I like the idea of the bugs. I'm thinking about having ethereal shadows of "real" objects blinking in and out of view based on how permanent and stationary they are. On Jan 23, 2008 3:31 AM, Greg Weatherup wrote: > Aloha, I'm afraid I can't really comment from a rules, cannon, nor > experience aspect, since none of my games ever went planar. However, I > would probably try to really play up the eeriness and spookiness of > everything. Everything is half seen and indestinct. The conflict > between their senses would likely make for a queasy stomach till they get > used to it. Something they go to lean against (or climb or something) is > not actually ethereally real just an etheral shadow of something, and > things like that just to keep reminding them how unnatural and > out-of-place they feel. Would distances and perceptions of distance and > speed be skewered? Bugs! What would (non-dangerous) etheral bugs and > vermin look like? perhaps ferret sized, multicolored, disgusting, > catepillar like things with feelers that crawl around so that the party > things they are about to be attacked but really the bug is just trying to > run away from the wierd, disgusting, scarry, odd thing that it is > encountering. I think I remember something from a Stargate SG-1 episode > on these lines. I remember reading something somewhere about etheral > curtains, but I don't remember where. Again, I don't know if any of this > contradicts cannon or rules or anything, I'm just throwing out ideals, > Greg WeatherupGWxup@excite.comGecko_G@email > .comhttp://members.fortunecity.com/gecko_g/ > > -- > Want an e-mail address like mine? > Get a free e-mail account today at www.mail.com! > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > -- http://www.drunken-pumpkin.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:30:59 -0500 From: Robert Hartley Subject: Re: Ethereal creatures Thanks. I'll check out the fiend folio and 'From Beyond" On Jan 23, 2008 11:12 AM, Richard B. wrote: > What you're talking about makes me think of the HP Lovecraft story "From > Beyond". If you're not familiar with it (or the movie it inspired), it talks > about a world overlaying, but normally invisible to, our own inhabited by > malevolent creatures. When the two worlds are made visible to each other by > a "mad scientist", mayhem ensues. > > As far as creatures go, I'd have a look at the original Fiend Folio if you > can. It's full of some really weird monsters, some of which would probably > be right at home on the Ethereal Plane. The Xill, inspired by the story that > inspired the movie "Alien" would be perfect, since it already inhabits the > E-Plane. The Terithran is another E-Plane creature that might work. > > Robert Hartley wrote: Hi all, > I've been subscribed to the list for awhile now, but this is my first > post. > I'm running a campaign for 5 players averaging about 4th level (Odnd). > Soon > they will have access to the Ethereal plane. I'd like any suggestions > anybody might have on creatures to populate the plane with. the players > have > no experiance with other planes and I'd like my version of the Ethereal > to spook the party. I'd like the pc's to be cautious about "going > Ethereal" > because they're never quite sure what might be waiting for them when they > get there. Thanks! > -- > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > -- http://www.drunken-pumpkin.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:08:32 -0500 From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Mystaran Numismatics - Karameikos Greetings, ok, here's a more finalised version of the Karameikos entry. I'm going wit= h the larger sized coin default (60 & 30 per pound) but it is an issue I pl= an to address in the introduction. I've swapped Krona/Koruna, and the vari= ous other changes we discussed. Karameikos:=20=20 Description/Notes/overview: As part of the Thyatian Empire, the Thyatian I= mperial Standard is used alongside the traditional traladaran domestic syst= em. The Thyatian lords had previously attempted to introduce the tradition= al thyatian domestic system, but it never caught on (however the Baron of K= elvin does occasionally issue obolos =96 see below). Largely a Barter and = agricultural economy, the usage of coins is growing rapidly, especially in = the towns. Karameikos produces a Silver Crona based on the Thyatian Asteri= us in a de facto adherence to the Tendrius agreement. The mints at Highfor= ge & Threshold also produce a Copper coin based on the Thyatian Denarius, t= he Kopec, but it is not yet in large quantities in circulation, more common= is a copper Half-Kopec coin (1/2 cp). It should be noted that the Highfor= ge mint is not under ducal authority but that much outsourcing of the duchi= es currency needs results in large numbers of coins produced by the gnomes = and dwarves of Highforge. Many of the coins produced at Highforge can be i= dentified by their milled edges.=20=20 Small denomination bronze coins: At the base of the monetary system is a sm= all token or coin which I=92ll call a =93Bit=94. In the Thyatian language = this would be =93Brass=94 and they look down on it as a worthless and backw= ard coin, like a poor imitation of their Aes (see Thyatis), they might even= call it Aes in their language. However, in the Traladaran language it is = called a =93Bronze=94 and the native Traladarans make a point of utilizing = it (after all, the secret of Bronze making was taught to Halav and the Tral= adarans by the Guardian Immortals so long ago). The Standard =93Bit=94 is = worth a quarter of a Kopec (0.25 cp) though some are found in other values = (i.e. two bits being equivalent of a half-kopec). While there is no govern= ment control over this coin the value is so small that it is usually not wo= rth a counterfeiter=92s effort. Design note: I started out using =93Bit=94= as a placeholder till I could come up with a more proper name, but have si= nce come to prefer =93Bit=94. Copper Coins: To help weaken the moneychanger=92s guild, they were stripped= of their right to mint copper coins at the time of the conquest. The Thya= tians had hoped that their traditional currency systems would come to repla= ce the native Traladaran ones, but the Traditional currency system never re= ally caught on and the imperial standard coins are always in short supply. = When the shortage of copper coins became acute, and the Thyatians realized= this was only increasing the usage of the =93Bits=94, they established a m= int at Threshold to produce Copper Kopecs and started putting in orders at = the Highforge mint for kopecs. In addition to the Kopec, the half-Kopec de= nomination was widely produced in the hopes of driving out the old =93bits= =94. While the half-Kopec has become a widely used denomination, it has no= t driven the =93bit=94 system out. Many of the whole Kopec denominated coi= ns that do get produced end up getting cut up or broken to make the equival= ents of half, quarter, etc. Kopecs, much to the dismay of the mint official= s. Much counterfeiting of the half-Kopec takes place, but given a relative= scarcity of coins, such counterfeits are usually accepted at face value ou= t of necessity. (RW inspiration for this: counterfeit copper coins in the A= merican Colonies due to a scarcity of coins shipped over from Britain). Ma= ny of these counterfeits are restamped Aes (see Thyatis). I don=92t think = this is due to any active work by either the Veiled Society nor the Kingdom= of Thieves, but is more small-time operations, or even merchants making to= kens out of economic necessity, etc. (though perhaps the VS & KoT do some s= mall scale counterfeiting of coppers or bits as a small sideline =96 advent= ure idea: at some point in the future one or the other of the two decide to= start counterfeiting silver or gold coins and the adventurers must uncover= the culprits). The Kopec series usually depict flora and fauna from the d= uchy=92s wilds, the whole Kopec featuring a wolf (per K:KoA). A Kopec is w= orth 1cp (thus a half-kopec is 0.5cp, and etc.) The =93Crowns=94: The =93Crown=94, in one form or another, has been a denom= ination in Traladara for centuries. The Crona, better known in previous er= as as the Krona (in the central coast area around Marlinenev), Krone (in th= e Darokinian influenced North-East, plural form is Kroner), and Koruna (in = the greater Halag area), has long been produced at high quality/high standa= rds, on the authority of the monechangers guild in Specularuam. Originally= it was a very small, fine hexagonal shaped gold coin. The =93Crown=94 and= the authority it represents was chosen for a coinage standard by the oliga= rchs of the City state since the authority would figuratively be =93in the = hands of the oligarchs=94 since only the wealthy oligarchs could afford to = use a gold coin. Throughout Traladara this =93crown=94 was adopted as a st= andard coin/shape/denomination but the symbolism was lost and a depiction r= epresenting King Halav soon became the norm, even back within Marlinev. Thi= s was also taken to the city-states, other than Slagovich (See Slagovich), = where it became the modern Korun (See City States). Meanwhile the gold den= omination had also spread to what would become the Minrothad Guilds, with t= he symbolism intact but under the name of Crona, which they established as = the capstone of their weight based currency system (see Minrothad Guilds). = When the Thyatians came into Traladara they not only imported their curren= cy system to operate alongside the Traladaran one, they also established th= e goldsmiths guild with the 902 AC decree. After 902 the moneychangers gui= ld still had a monopoly on the minting of =93crowns=94 (Krona/Koruna/Krone{= r}) but they were not permitted to mint gold coins, so they adopted the cur= rent coin, in silver, round, and larger than the old gold krona/koruna/kron= e(r), it took some time but eventually this coin came to be produced to tha= t of the tendrius standard, thus Karameikos is de-facto on the Tendrius Sta= ndard. The Thyatians were happy to see their new currency order (both the = imperial thyatian denominations and the Guilden/Guilders) supplanted above = the old traladaran ways. To reflect that it was not exactly equal in value= to the old gold coins, and to reflect the changing of pronunciations over = the centuries, the moneychangers guild christened this new coin the =93Cron= a=94 (ironically equal to the Minrothad version of the name). Many of the = older hexagonal shaped gold coins depicting king Halav are still in circula= tion outside of the capital (usually at 5sp in value though even rarer coin= s of multiple kroner/Koruna are occasionally encountered) but the older one= s in Marlinev/Specularuam have largely been melted and re-used over the spa= n of the last century by the goldsmiths guild. The silver crona usually fe= atures buildings and landmarks on them. Gold Coins: The Duke would eventually like to produce a Gold coin at Thresh= old, but none exist yet. Eventually (at or following Karameikan independen= ce) the mint will start producing a gold coin, the Royal, a hexagonal shape= d coin. It will be hexagonal and much like a larger version of the older g= olden kronas (chosen for continuity). It will be produced exclusively in T= hreshold to avoid the monopoly granted within Specularuam to the goldsmiths= guild. For now the goldsmiths guild occasionally produces coins valued in= various =93guilden=92s=94 (in the Dwarvish language =96 see Buhrohur, and = perhaps in the Hattian dialect of Thyatian as well, though I am unsure of t= his last bit) or =93Guilders=94 (in standard Thyatian) or =93Florins=94 (in= Traladaran and perhaps in Kerendan &/or Ispan dialects of Thyatian =96 see= Vyalia), and while these coins have no official direct status from the Duk= e, given that the goldsmiths guild is dominated by dwarven craftsmen, they = are usually of very fine craftsmanship and quality so are widely accepted, = (The exact value is left up to individual DM=92s). However the local econo= my of Specularuam is currently too small to produce much excess gold, and m= ost of what gold there is gets made into jewelry and such by the guild. So= me of the smaller 1 fl. Coins circulate within Specularuam, while most of t= he larger ones (i.e. 10 fl.) end up being exported. Also see Thyatian Imperial Standard coins, which are found circulating with= in Karameikos as well. Other Coins: The barons appointed by Karameikos have the same rights regard= ing currency as a Thyatian Imperial lord (see Traditional Thyatian system),= and thus can produce small denomination brass, bronze, or lesser alloy coi= ns, but of the Barons only two currently exercise this right =96 von Hendri= cks and Kelvin. Baron Vorloi, due to his knowledge of mercantilism knows t= hat any issue he could produce would be unnecessary and possibly hurtful to= the economy given the current economic situation. Threshold is site of th= e main ducal mint and that mint is too busy producing coins of the realm, t= hough the patriarch occasionally has a religious medal or two produced. Ke= lvin occasionally employs a few craftsmen to produce obolus coins, a rare d= enomination even within the Thyatian system, chosen because it is the close= st equivalent to the half-kopec in value, this usually blends in with the h= alf-kopecs and occasionally turns up. As is par for the traditional Thyati= an system (see q.v.) it is usually underweight and on a metal-to-metal valu= e would really be worth about 5/11 or 5/12 of a kopec, but it usually chang= es hands unnoticed as a half-kopec. The Black Eagle Baron produces a serie= s of large, base metal coins denominated in Kopec values which feature a pr= ominent portrait of the Baron (RW inspiration- Renaissance Italian Silver T= estones) but these generally don=92t circulate much beyond Fort Doom and th= e Baron=92s mercenaries. At some point in the future the mint will begin p= roducing small numbers of an electrum Halav, in the hexagonal shaped tradit= ion of the gold Royals and Kronas. Domestic exceptions- Highforge & the Elves. The independent enclave of Hig= hforge is as of yet undeveloped for purposes of this document. Amongst the= elves the Vyalia likely continue to reckon in terms of silver Florins (as = a unit of account), and the Calarii like wise have a unit of account in ter= ms of their traditional (silver Schilling?) which it should be noted has ne= ver been an actual coin. For the Calarii unit, the exact value is left up = to the needs of individual DM=92s, but it is recommended that it be of simi= lar value to both the Vyalia Florin (see Vyalia) and the Alfheim Ten=92er (= see Alfheim) and also that it be an even fraction of the value of a typical= horse. Foreign usage: Outside of Karameikos these are accepted in Selenica, Easter= n parts of the 5 shires, and in Machetos. Some Minrothad and Ierendi merch= ants coming to Specularuam will accept it as well but the islands themselve= s will not.=20 Foreign circulation: Some of the traditional Thyatian denominations (see Th= yatis) are found in circulation, especially coins from Kerendas/Machetos/Mo= sitius, particularly in the Eastern parts of the country. Summation: Domestic System: 1 Crona=3D10 Kopecs=3D40 standard =93Bits=94 Thyatian Imperial Standard- 1 Lucin=3D20 Asterius=3D200 Denarius=3D1/10 Emp= eror Local Crona & Kopec match the Imperial Asterius and Denarius, respectively. Main Denominations encountered (see text for other rarer coins): Denomination Value Weight Notes =93Bit=94 (Bronze/Brass) (standard value=3D0.25cp), other values exist Copper Half-Kopec 0.5cp 120/lb Common, Small Copper Kopec 1cp 60/lb Rare Copper Denarius 1cp 60/lb Imperial Standard, Imported Silver Crona 1sp 60/lb most now de facto Tendrius Standard Silver Asterius 1sp 60/lb Imperial Standard, Imported, Tendrius System Gold Lucin 20sp 30/lb Imperial Standard, Imported Platinum Emperor 200sp 15/lb Imperial Standard, Imported, Large, rare Historical coin ideas: Perhaps copper Para=92s, silver imitations of Gold = Dinars and Gold Markas? Perhaps pengos and/or forint=92s (the later being = imitations of Vyalian florins?) and Banicas produced by various traladaran = lords? Coins based on neighboring countries? Older Kopecs and Kronas/Koru= nas/Kroner, even gold Kronas/etc. Old Vyalian Florins. The Northeast of t= he country was dominated by Darokinian, and especially Selenican, interests= , see Darokin entry for ideas. The coastal areas had influence and trade f= rom early Minrothad, see Minrothad entry for ideas. Anything else? Does this sound like a good "finalized" version? Thank you for all your input, Greg Weatherup GWxup@excite.com Gecko_G@email.com http://members.fortunecity.com/gecko_g/ PS I'm honored to see the draft version "published" in the vaults, thank yo= u. --=20 Want an e-mail address like mine? 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