Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 21 May 2008 to 22 May 2008 (#2008-22) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 23/05/2008, 17:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 23 messages totalling 1145 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. MMB stuff safe? (13) 2. MMB dead? (10) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 10:27:05 +0300 From: Ville V Lahde Subject: MMB stuff safe? What worries me is that a lot of interesting stuff was developed and most of all ruminated on the boards. While Shawn has done excellent work on putting the more finished stuff on the Vaults, a lot of it is lost in the old threads. I guess this shows the value of the Vaults, and is a good lesson: Whenever a good and creative discussion pops up, the participants might try to gather their results, even in a rough discursive form, into a single document, so Shawn can easily post it at the Vaults. The participants might circulate the text to smooth some rought edges and fill in the gaps etc. For example, there have been very interesting discussions on the nature of Radiance, certain Immortals, Economy, Ethnography, location of Blackmoor... These resources should not be lost. Ville ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 12:59:04 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: MMB dead? 2008/5/21 Havard Faanes : > Dramatic and scary developments over at the WotC forums. > > Most Mystara discussions have moved from this list to the MMB over the last few years. Now I am wondering if we should try to get people to get back here or what. > > How many are still on this list? I'm still here, of course. > If this decision by WotC is final, it is a sad day for Mystara and a sad day for D&D. :( Indeed. The decision is clearly final, since there's no real possibility of consistently having 25 or more active topics of discussions (we can probably get six to ten in good times), and so no possibility of having the MMB being re-spawned from the big merger. The only board that might be resurrected is the Dark Sun one, and even that only if it the merged board doubled its traffic (unlikely, since at least some people are not going to like the new organization). All in all, we should try to move most of the discussion back here, as long as the MML lasts. GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 05:53:09 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: MMB dead? Weird. The links to the old forum threads are still there, so all the info is apparently not deleted yet (at least the "Important Thread" links still work, so I assume the other threads still exist). You'd have thought they'd give us some warning or something, so that we could archive important threads as needed. Very odd. If the MMB goes down, I'm going to guess maybe the Dragonsfoot Known World board might be a good alternative (other than the MML, of course). Havard Faanes wrote: Basically, each of the old OOP worlds used to have their own board/forum. Now they have all been merged, probably meaning Mystara posts will be drowned by discussions about Dark Sun, Dragonlance and other settings. While we still have a place for discussions, sharing it with other worlds means a loss of identity which will damage the sense of community we had over there. While this has no consequences for the MML, it is likely damaging for the overall Mystaran community, production for Pandius etc. Heck, how do we know this list won't eventually be shut down? Havard --- Den ons 2008-05-21 skrev Steven Carter : > Fra: Steven Carter Emne: Re: [MYSTARA] MMB dead? > Til: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Dato: Onsdag 21. mai 2008 23.12 > Uh, yeah. I don't really have time to browse web-based > boards and web > traffic at work is watched. A lot of RPG sites blocked and > notices > about appropriate use even if you're on lunch. So, > dramatic and > scary, hunh? Care to give us a synopsis? > > 2008/5/21 Havard Faanes : > > Dramatic and scary developments over at the WotC > forums. > > > > Most Mystara discussions have moved from this list to > the MMB over the last few years. Now I am wondering if we > should try to get people to get back here or what. > > > > How many are still on this list? > > > > If this decision by WotC is final, it is a sad day for > Mystara and a sad day for D&D. :( > > > > Havard > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Alt i ett. Få Yahoo! Mail med adressekartotek, > kalender og > > notisblokk. http://no.mail.yahoo.com > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. _________________________________________________________ Alt i ett. Få Yahoo! Mail med adressekartotek, kalender og notisblokk. http://no.mail.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 13:02:32 +0000 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: MMB dead? Dragonsfoot might be a temporary sollution (I post there alot anyway), but = given DF's policy on 3E/4E being banned, they cannot provide a home for all= Mystara fans.=20 I am glad the MML is still around (for how long?), but I have grown accusto= med to posting on web forums, so I would like to see a new home for Mystara= somewhere else. There has been talk of a new web forum for all the OOP wor= lds independent of Wizards.=20 I guess we will have to wait and see.. Havard --- Den tor 2008-05-22 skrev Andrew Theisen : > Fra: Andrew Theisen > Emne: Re: [MYSTARA] MMB dead? > Til: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Dato: Torsdag 22. mai 2008 14.53 > Weird. The links to the old forum threads are still there, > so all the info is apparently not deleted yet (at least the > "Important Thread" links still work, so I assume > the other threads still exist). > =20 > You'd have thought they'd give us some warning or > something, so that we could archive important threads as > needed. > =20 > Very odd. If the MMB goes down, I'm going to guess > maybe the Dragonsfoot Known World board might be a good > alternative (other than the MML, of course). > =20 > Havard Faanes wrote: Basically, > each of the old OOP worlds used to have their own > board/forum. Now they have all been merged, probably > meaning Mystara posts will be drowned by discussions about > Dark Sun, Dragonlance and other settings.=20 > =20 > While we still have a place for discussions, sharing it > with other worlds means a loss of identity which will > damage the sense of community we had over there.=20 > =20 > While this has no consequences for the MML, it is likely > damaging for the overall Mystaran community, production for > Pandius etc.=20 > =20 > Heck, how do we know this list won't eventually be shut > down? > =20 > Havard > =20 > =20 > --- Den ons 2008-05-21 skrev Steven Carter : > =20 > > Fra: Steven Carter=20 > > Emne: Re: [MYSTARA] MMB dead? > > Til: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > Dato: Onsdag 21. mai 2008 23.12 > > Uh, yeah. I don't really have time to browse > web-based > > boards and web > > traffic at work is watched. A lot of RPG sites > blocked and > > notices > > about appropriate use even if you're on lunch.=20 > So, > > dramatic and > > scary, hunh? Care to give us a synopsis? > >=20 > > 2008/5/21 Havard Faanes : > > > Dramatic and scary developments over at the WotC > > forums. > > > > > > Most Mystara discussions have moved from this > list to > > the MMB over the last few years. Now I am wondering if > we > > should try to get people to get back here or what. > > > > > > How many are still on this list? > > > > > > If this decision by WotC is final, it is a sad > day for > > Mystara and a sad day for D&D. :( > > > > > > Havard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > Alt i ett. F=E5 Yahoo! Mail med adressekartotek, > > kalender og > > > notisblokk. http://no.mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > >=20 > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > =20 > =20 > =20 > _________________________________________________________ > Alt i ett. F=E5 Yahoo! Mail med adressekartotek, kalender og > notisblokk. http://no.mail.yahoo.com > =20 > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > =20 > =20 > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.=0A=0A=0A __________= _______________________________________________=0AAlt i ett. F=E5 Yahoo! Ma= il med adressekartotek, kalender og=0Anotisblokk. http://no.mail.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 06:09:55 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: MMB stuff safe? I haven't tried searching yet, but I'm assuming all the old threads are still there... just going to be a lot harder to find. I'm certainly going to go through and try and archive some of them, though. Ville V Lahde wrote: What worries me is that a lot of interesting stuff was developed and most of all ruminated on the boards. While Shawn has done excellent work on putting the more finished stuff on the Vaults, a lot of it is lost in the old threads. I guess this shows the value of the Vaults, and is a good lesson: Whenever a good and creative discussion pops up, the participants might try to gather their results, even in a rough discursive form, into a single document, so Shawn can easily post it at the Vaults. The participants might circulate the text to smooth some rought edges and fill in the gaps etc. For example, there have been very interesting discussions on the nature of Radiance, certain Immortals, Economy, Ethnography, location of Blackmoor... These resources should not be lost. Ville ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 07:35:27 -0700 From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: MMB dead? Havard Faanes wrote: > Dragonsfoot might be a temporary sollution (I post there alot anyway), but given DF's policy on 3E/4E being banned, they cannot provide a home for all Mystara fans. > I am glad the MML is still around (for how long?), but I have grown accustomed to posting on web forums, so I would like to see a new home for Mystara somewhere else. There has been talk of a new web forum for all the OOP worlds independent of Wizards. ENWorld has been pretty open to adding new boards and they took in the play by post boards when Wizards evicted them previously. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 00:13:51 +0900 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: MMB stuff safe? Hi everyone. Andrew Theisen wrote: > I haven't tried searching yet, but I'm assuming all the old threads are still there... just going to be a lot harder to find. I'm certainly going to go through and try and archive some of them, though. If I can make a suggestion, how about we create an index for the Mystara posts? It seems that they are not going to delete them, and it looks like everything is indeed still there. A hyperlinked list (ordered alphabetically, chronologically, or whatever - easy to mess around with the order in a spreadsheet later) would make for a very nice Mystara sticky at the top of the forum. Doing this would also make the actual archiving job a lot easier, too. Thorf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 16:36:23 +0000 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: MMB stuff safe? An index of the threads is a good idea.=20 We should put it in an updatable thread on the WotC forum and every Mystara= fan posting there should add that thread to their signature. I see fans of= other settings working on something like this... Havard --- Den tor 2008-05-22 skrev Thorfinn Tait : > Fra: Thorfinn Tait > Emne: Re: [MYSTARA] MMB stuff safe? > Til: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Dato: Torsdag 22. mai 2008 17.13 > Hi everyone. > =20 > Andrew Theisen wrote: > > I haven't tried searching yet, but I'm > assuming all the old threads are still there... just going > to be a lot harder to find. I'm certainly going to go > through and try and archive some of them, though. > =20 > If I can make a suggestion, how about we create an index > for the Mystara=20 > posts? It seems that they are not going to delete them, > and it looks=20 > like everything is indeed still there. A hyperlinked list > (ordered=20 > alphabetically, chronologically, or whatever - easy to mess > around with=20 > the order in a spreadsheet later) would make for a very > nice Mystara=20 > sticky at the top of the forum. > =20 > Doing this would also make the actual archiving job a lot > easier, too. > =20 > Thorf > =20 > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.=0A=0A=0A __________= _______________________________________________=0AAlt i ett. F=E5 Yahoo! Ma= il med adressekartotek, kalender og=0Anotisblokk. http://no.mail.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 14:06:12 -0700 From: Boonedale Subject: Re: MMB stuff safe? What about the wiki? How far along is it (if its still up and active)? "Happy Hunting!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:20:22 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: MMB stuff safe? Not a bad idea. If no one else jumps on this first, I'll look into the feasibility of doing it later tonight. Thorfinn Tait wrote: Hi everyone. Andrew Theisen wrote: > I haven't tried searching yet, but I'm assuming all the old threads are still there... just going to be a lot harder to find. I'm certainly going to go through and try and archive some of them, though. If I can make a suggestion, how about we create an index for the Mystara posts? It seems that they are not going to delete them, and it looks like everything is indeed still there. A hyperlinked list (ordered alphabetically, chronologically, or whatever - easy to mess around with the order in a spreadsheet later) would make for a very nice Mystara sticky at the top of the forum. Doing this would also make the actual archiving job a lot easier, too. Thorf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:22:52 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: MMB stuff safe? Another question that I raised on the MMB, but will re-ask here- Does anyone with knowledge of how Forums/Mailing Lists work better than I have know if it's possible to somehow link the two? IE, either allow direct posting between the two, or else some sort of archived Board posts that get sent to a Mailing List? If so, then maybe we can just create a new board and list that combines the two, and better interlink our Mystara community. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 21:37:06 -0300 From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes (USP Solar Team)" Subject: Re: MMB dead? GOOD POINT, H! That was exactly my point when I - twice - tried to convince people to use MML only. A e-mail list is safe, as all the content is decentralised (I still have ALL the MML msgs here, never deleted a sinlge one!). OTOH can we trust someone... *anyone* to keep the content? I do not. I'm a maniac, a control freak. I have the Vaults *entirely* inside my HD. Imagine one that someone attacks/hacks/cracks the original one? I have it all here (yes, I'm aware that there is a 100% probability that Shawn has his own back-up, but I told you guys I'm a control freak). When I asked people to merge both lists (i.e. bring the MMB discussions to MML) we had people saying: 1) "I don't care, I can read both (and I do it)" 2) "I don't have access to e-mails at work" (or "I have limited/monitored access to e-mails at work") (BTW I don't read MML, MMB or anything like that at work, but at home.) 3) "I don't have access to WEB BROWSING at work" (or "I have limited/monitored access to WEB BROWSING at work") --> therefore those people preferred the MML. 4) "Let's keep MMB alive, for that is the way we show WotC that Mystara still has fans and it would be nice - for them, not only for us - to resurrect the setting.". ---------- Now let's see: - Items 2 and 4 were *pro*-MMB. - Item 1 is neutral (true neutral, hehehe). - Item 3 is pro-MML. Even if MMB is 100% "safe", "trustworthy" (e.g. one of us take control of it instead of WotC), there is a problem: the pages are TOO colourful (people have imgs, not only usernames, the page has itself colours and imgs etc). BAD for work. OTOH if you are reading e-mail... it's e-mail, plain text, nobody can tell it is a hobby msg. Despite the 4 types of opinion above........ number FOUR makes no sense anymore, as WotC has JUST showed us we (actually, people who went for # 4) were WRONG: keeping a Mystara online list, even being kept by WotC, does NO GOOD for bringing back the setting. They just DO NOT CARE So we now have neutral (I'm discarding it) and 2 and 3; the latter can't browse, the first cannot read e-mails. Hence my proposal: We KEEP an online bulletin board, but NOT kept by WotC, but by some 5 of us. I recommend the famous, cool and GOOD phpbb (PHP, the programming language, plus BB for Bulletin Board); check www.phpbb.com That is for those who can't read e-mails. Similarly, we KEEP a e-mail list, but NOT kept by WotC, but by some 5 of us (Yahoogroup or Googlegroup). I am VERY experienced in managing YGs and would like to do that. I'd like to have the "old ones" ALL as moderators (Jenny, Shawn, GP, Havard............). Uh! "mystarabrasil" is already a successful Mystara YG; I created it and it has all the Brazilians of this list (exception made to Andre, the pbem DM, who never replied to my invitation). I hope you appreciate it. Dearly. I TRULY don't like to let other people (companies, who are profit-oriented, specially) to take control of MY stuff, mainly my LOVED hobby, Mystara!!! All the best, -- ---------------------- Vini, 10th-level wild mage, Bach enthusiast, solar "raycer" On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Havard Faanes wrote: Basically, each of the old OOP worlds used to have their own board/forum. Now they have all been merged, probably meaning Mystara posts will be drowned by discussions about Dark Sun, Dragonlance and other settings. While we still have a place for discussions, sharing it with other worlds means a loss of identity which will damage the sense of community we had over there. While this has no consequences for the MML, it is likely damaging for the overall Mystaran community, production for Pandius etc. Heck, how do we know this list won't eventually be shut down? Havard --- Den ons 2008-05-21 skrev Steven Carter : > Fra: Steven Carter > Emne: Re: [MYSTARA] MMB dead? > Til: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Dato: Onsdag 21. mai 2008 23.12 > Uh, yeah. I don't really have time to browse web-based > boards and web > traffic at work is watched. A lot of RPG sites blocked and > notices > about appropriate use even if you're on lunch. So, > dramatic and > scary, hunh? Care to give us a synopsis? > > 2008/5/21 Havard Faanes : > > Dramatic and scary developments over at the WotC > forums. > > > > Most Mystara discussions have moved from this list to > the MMB over the last few years. Now I am wondering if we > should try to get people to get back here or what. > > > > How many are still on this list? > > > > If this decision by WotC is final, it is a sad day for > Mystara and a sad day for D&D. :( > > > > Havard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 21:39:30 -0300 From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes (USP Solar Team)" Subject: Re: MMB dead? On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: 2008/5/21 Havard Faanes : > Dramatic and scary developments over at the WotC forums. > > Most Mystara discussions have moved from this list to the MMB over the last few years. Now I am wondering if we should try to get people to get back here or what. > > How many are still on this list? I'm still here, of course. So am I. > If this decision by WotC is final, it is a sad day for Mystara and a sad day for D&D. :( Indeed. The decision is clearly final, since there's no real possibility of consistently having 25 or more active topics of discussions (we can probably get six to ten in good times), and so no possibility of having the MMB being re-spawned from the big merger. The only board that might be resurrected is the Dark Sun one, and even that only if it the merged board doubled its traffic (unlikely, since at least some people are not going to like the new organization). Carissimo, you seem to know a lot about this; where do the numbers come from? All in all, we should try to move most of the discussion back here, as long as the MML lasts. GP "as long as the MML lasts."... what is that? Is the captain of the guard getting soft? Come on, GP!!! Let's act! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 21:40:24 -0300 From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes (USP Solar Team)" Subject: Re: MMB dead? On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Andrew Theisen wrote: Weird. The links to the old forum threads are still there, so all the info is apparently not deleted yet (at least the "Important Thread" links still work, so I assume the other threads still exist). You'd have thought they'd give us some warning or something, so that we could archive important threads as needed. Aren't the old msgs being taken to the "new place"? Will them just be deleted? Very odd. If the MMB goes down, I'm going to guess maybe the Dragonsfoot Known World board might be a good alternative (other than the MML, of course). Link, pls. :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 21:41:29 -0300 From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes (USP Solar Team)" Subject: Re: MMB dead? On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 10:02 AM, Havard Faanes wrote: Dragonsfoot might be a temporary sollution (I post there alot anyway), but given DF's policy on 3E/4E being banned, they cannot provide a home for all Mystara fans. Ban? What do you mean? Forums cannot be 3ed/4ed-oriented or not even msgs can mention them? Weird! I am glad the MML is still around (for how long?), Do you guys think Wiz would put down the MML as well? Well, let's be safe: is there a COPY of all the msgs? A back-up, like those of the ooooold USENET? but I have grown accustomed to posting on web forums, so I would like to see a new home for Mystara somewhere else. There has been talk of a new web forum for all the OOP worlds independent of Wizards. I guess we will have to wait and see.. Havard No, friend! We *act*! Jenni, hacker, where are you? Could you please set up a PHPBB forum? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 21:44:22 -0300 From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes (USP Solar Team)" Subject: Re: MMB dead? On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Beau Yarbrough wrote: Havard Faanes wrote: Dragonsfoot might be a temporary sollution (I post there alot anyway), but given DF's policy on 3E/4E being banned, they cannot provide a home for all Mystara fans. I am glad the MML is still around (for how long?), but I have grown accustomed to posting on web forums, so I would like to see a new home for Mystara somewhere else. There has been talk of a new web forum for all the OOP worlds independent of Wizards. ENWorld has been pretty open to adding new boards and they took in the play by post boards when Wizards evicted them previously. PBP = PBEM? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 20:49:26 -0400 From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: MMB stuff safe? At 03:27 AM 22/05/2008, you wrote: > What worries me is that a lot of interesting stuff was developed and > most of all ruminated on the boards. While Shawn has done excellent > work on putting the more finished stuff on the Vaults, a lot of it is > lost in the old threads. I guess this shows the value of the Vaults, > and is a good lesson: > > Whenever a good and creative discussion pops up, the participants > might try to gather their results, even in a rough discursive form, > into a single document, so Shawn can easily post it at the Vaults. The > participants might circulate the text to smooth some rought edges and > fill in the gaps etc. For example, there have been very interesting > discussions on the nature of Radiance, certain Immortals, Economy, > Ethnography, location of Blackmoor... These resources should not be > lost. this has always been a problem with the system which seems to have developed for us, with me just taking down whatever appears to me to be "articles" from either the mailing list or the message boards. Anything else, whether it be from the mailing list from years ago or the first generation of the message boards from AOL is either definitely lost in the second case or very distant in the first case. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 10:22:48 +0900 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: MMB stuff safe? I second Vini's proposal of a phpBB board. Exceedingly easy to set up, we can give administrative/moderator access to multiple people, and we keep the controls within the community. The design of the board is completely open for changes, so we can make it look highly professional, without fancy graphics and such if that would help people (such as myself) who read the boards at work. I have some experience in setting up, administrating and using phpBB (for which see here - http://www.thorf.co.uk/phpBB2/ - although since most of it is invisible to unregistered users there's not much to see). So I can say with confidence that it's something we as a community can do without any problems. Moreover, and this is the best part, administrators of phpBB have an option to back up the database (which saves as a text file on your hard disk), and can do so as often as necessary. Should the board become a victim to hackers, server or hard disk failure, etc., it would be no problem to restore the most recent backup - and with multiple administrators, everyone can share that responsibility. The only thing that phpBB doesn't support (as far as I know) is a hybrid board/mailing list format. But actually I think there is no need to change the MML as long as this list is still here. (Unless we want to pre-empt its closure by Wizards of the Coast - but who knows when that may happen, if at all.) The more I think about this idea, the more I like it - a forum set up, owned, maintained, and moderated (not that we need much of that...) by ourselves. I am very much in the mindset that Wizards of the Coast has no interest in supporting Mystara, and indeed that we have much to gain by acting on our own behalf from now on. Thorf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 10:32:54 +0900 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: MMB stuff safe? Here's a better example of a default phpBB board: http://www.meccg.net/dforum/ And the homepage for phpBB: http://www.phpbb.com/ I could probably host the board, but I suspect we will not be short of volunteers on that front. :-) In the end the best host would be someone who has been around for a long time and plans to stick around for the foreseeable future, who is visible and well known, and who we all trust. Happily we have rather a lot of people like that in this community, and I for one would be quite happy for any one of them to host the board. The other thing that's important is the URL, though that problem can be solved easily if Shawn is able to link to the board from the Vaults. If he is allowed to do that, then the URL is pretty much irrelevant. Thorf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 21:33:37 -0400 From: Joe Mason Subject: Re: MMB dead? On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 8:37 PM, Vinicius R. de Moraes (USP Solar Team) wrote: > 2) "I don't have access to e-mails at work" (or "I have limited/monitored > access to e-mails at work") > > (BTW I don't read MML, MMB or anything like that at work, but at home.) > > 3) "I don't have access to WEB BROWSING at work" (or "I have > limited/monitored access to WEB BROWSING at work") --> therefore those > people preferred the MML. And the less strict buy more common, "I much prefer to get new messages by email, so I can read them in my favourite mail client" vs. "I much prefer to get new messages on a web-based board". The solution to these is to have a web-to-mail gateway: posting on the message board should send a copy of the post to the mailing list, and vice versa. Joe ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 21:37:23 -0400 From: Joe Mason Subject: Re: MMB stuff safe? On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 8:22 PM, Andrew Theisen wrote: > Another question that I raised on the MMB, but will re-ask here- Does anyone with knowledge of how Forums/Mailing Lists work better than I have know if it's possible to somehow link the two? IE, either allow direct posting between the two, or else some sort of archived Board posts that get sent to a Mailing List? > > If so, then maybe we can just create a new board and list that combines the two, and better interlink our Mystara community. There are definitely sites that put mailing lists on the web (ie. gmane.org - you can run your own copy of the gmane code), but for some reason I can never understand, the interfaces are all *terrible*. And they only work one-way: they archive the mailing list, but you can't send messages to the list by posting to the board. There might be some better ones in less common use that I'm not aware of, though. It can't be that hard to hook a mailing list to phpbb. Joe ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 21:39:05 -0400 From: Joe Mason Subject: Re: MMB stuff safe? On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Joe Mason wrote: > There are definitely sites that put mailing lists on the web (ie. > gmane.org - you can run your own copy of the gmane code), but for some > reason I can never understand, the interfaces are all *terrible*. And > they only work one-way: they archive the mailing list, but you can't > send messages to the list by posting to the board. Oh, I meant to say - another option is a Yahoo group: it's been a while since I used one, but I believe you can get messages either by email or on the web at yahoo.com. I don't particularly like the interface, though. Joe ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 21:51:38 -0400 From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: MMB stuff safe? At 09:32 PM 22/05/2008, you wrote: > The other thing that's important is the URL, though that problem can be solved easily if Shawn is able to link to the board from the Vaults. If he is allowed to do that, then the URL is pretty much irrelevant. definitely no problems with linking to a board from the Vaults. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 21 May 2008 to 22 May 2008 (#2008-22) ***************************************************************