Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 13 Feb 2008 to 14 Feb 2008 (#2008-25) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 15/02/2008, 19:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 4 messages totalling 249 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Questions on Nithia (4) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:50:02 +0200 From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Questions on Nithia Pretty soon in our campaign I am going to send the PCs time-travelling =20 into the Nithian era. Well, actually it is not time travel in any =20 conventional sci-fi sense. Their bodies do not travel, only their =20 consciousnesses are "reborn" into personalities of the Nithian era. In =20 a sense the PCs direct those personalities as the players direct the =20 PCs. The point of this episode is that the PCs can witness the =20 destruction of Nithia and see where the Bead of Oblivion is hidden. I'm thinking about very epic battles where the celestial conflict is =20 mirrored. He birth of the Dead Places in deadly magical battles etc. Well anyway: I am looking for information on Nithia just before its =20 destruction. The background assumption in the scenario which I am =20 writing is that the PCs are persons in the present-day Ust-Urt valley. =20 The local leaders have rebelled against the Thanatos-influenced =20 Pharaoh, and their troops will take place in the final battles between =20 the forces of the undead pharaohs and mortal followers of the =20 coalition of immortals which wants to destroy the present Nithian =20 order. (There is some campaign-specific stuff on Thanatos and his =20 allies, but it is not relevant to this. Another difference is that IMC =20 the evil influences were in Nithia right from the start - 1500 BC. But =20 those differences do not affect these questions.) I have been thinking that the local rebellious leaders have been =20 influenced by the cult of Otan, the One-Eyed Pharaoh - of course the =20 Norse Odin in another guise. Worship of Otan has been brought to =20 Nithia by the subjugated Norsemen. I have already introduced this element into the campaign. I thought =20 the polarity of Than-Aton and Otan would work nicely. The idea is also that locating this rebellious faction in Ust-Urt =20 would explain why it remained fertile after the destruction wrought by =20 the Immortals. But as there is very little canon info on Nithia, I would be grateful =20 of any input, or hints to extisting fanmade articles. Some specific =20 questions: 1) What was the extent of the Nithian empire at 500 BC? - Thotia had most likeli seceded or it was at least rebellious. - There were colonies in Minrothad and Ierendi - Northern Reaches were subjugated - What about the three tribes of present-day Thyatis? Were they =20 barbarians who were threatening the Empire? Mercenaries of the Empire? =20 Or was Vanya, their liberator, following a plan of her patron, who was =20 part of the anti-Thanatos alliance? 2) Relations with Alphatia? - Nithia had been around for 500 years before the Alphatians arrived. =20 What do you think, were the two empires actively interested in each =20 other? Or were they too distant at that time? What about the Thothians? 3) What Immortals took part in the destruction of Nithia? - Pflarr might be a good candidate. This would be a nice touch, as the =20 PCs know him only as the "vile oppressor of the Traldar" from the =20 Secret Valley (B10) - Vanya is not yet an Immortal, but who might be a good patron of the =20 three pre-Thyatian tribes? - Ilsundal is a certainty. His great project, Alfheim forest, will be =20 partly responsible for drying up the Nithian delta. - Kagyar perhaps also: he raises the mountains of Rockhome to divert =20 the flow of river Nithia. - Odin of course (see above) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:19:35 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Questions on Nithia On 14/02/2008, Ville V Lahde wrote: > > 1) What was the extent of the Nithian empire at 500 BC? > - Thotia had most likeli seceded or it was at least rebellious. Probably rebellious, but not formally seceded. > - There were colonies in Minrothad and Ierendi > - Northern Reaches were subjugated > - What about the three tribes of present-day Thyatis? Were they > barbarians who were threatening the Empire? Mercenaries of the Empire? > Or was Vanya, their liberator, following a plan of her patron, who was > part of the anti-Thanatos alliance? The Nithians deported the Thyatian tribes to the Hinterlands as part of a colonization project, IIRC. They probably didn't go far in that direction. The Savage Coast held extensive Nithian colonies -- check their history in the SCCB. > 2) Relations with Alphatia? > - Nithia had been around for 500 years before the Alphatians arrived. > What do you think, were the two empires actively interested in each > other? Or were they too distant at that time? What about the Thothians? They were allied, or at least on good terms, IIRC. > 3) What Immortals took part in the destruction of Nithia? > - Pflarr might be a good candidate. This would be a nice touch, as the > PCs know him only as the "vile oppressor of the Traldar" from the > Secret Valley (B10) > - Vanya is not yet an Immortal, but who might be a good patron of the > three pre-Thyatian tribes? Odin, Thor, Valerias. Or, you can take a look at some articles I've written on this topic: http://pandius.com/ancrelg.html http://pandius.com/npanthh.html > - Ilsundal is a certainty. His great project, Alfheim forest, will be > partly responsible for drying up the Nithian delta. Indeed. > - Kagyar perhaps also: he raises the mountains of Rockhome to divert > the flow of river Nithia. > - Odin of course (see above) Powerful Immortals were certainly involved. Thanatos and Ranivorous as the opponents, Ixion and Ka on the other hand could be involved as patrons of Nithia. GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:49:12 +0100 From: la Volpe Subject: Re: Questions on Nithia Really great topic here, Ville! Personally I have never been a fan of the "Immortals destroy Nithia because it goes Entropic" story. Some time (a long time?) ago there was talk of involving some major villain like the Outer Beings that were developed by Geoff & others (humble I included). Although Outer Beings should definitely NOT appear at every corner of Mystara, replacing the Entropics (or at least MOST Entropics) as the villains, this is one special circumstance (maybe the only major one) in which they could fit well. Thus I assumed that the Outer Beings were trapped somewhere because of major crimes against Nature, or maybe because at the beginning of time they were disrupting the fabric of the then-young Multiverse. And I assumed that Nithia was a major fortress of Law and Good, following the Immortals Rathanos, Pflarr, Ixion and so on. One of the best tasks accomplished by the Nithians was to change Lycanthropy from a curse to a blessing (see http://pandius.com/lyctreat.html a wonderful article by John Calvin). So the best trick played by Thanatos and his Entropics ally was not to corrupt the Empire into worship of the Outer Beings, maybe trying to "free" one or otherwise to corrupt whole chunks of Mystara with Outer Being "un-naturality". In this way they would remain unharmed by the destruction of Nithia, the Immortals would have to resort to direct interference breaking their own rules, and all the good results of Nithian magic could mean some form of corruption, so that all of Nithia would have to be wiped away - and with it all its good results. Major stroke by Thanatos. This is a very rough sketch, I didn't elaborate on this further but it could be done. Iulius Sergius Scaevola --------------------------------- --------------------------------- L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:00:55 +0200 From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Re: Questions on Nithia Thanks for the replies. I had alredy glanced at your articles on the =20 subject, Giampaolo, but I must look into them closer. >> - There were colonies in Minrothad and Ierendi >> - Northern Reaches were subjugated >> - What about the three tribes of present-day Thyatis? Were they >> barbarians who were threatening the Empire? Mercenaries of the Empire? >> Or was Vanya, their liberator, following a plan of her patron, who was >> part of the anti-Thanatos alliance? > > The Nithians deported the Thyatian tribes to the Hinterlands as part > of a colonization project, IIRC. They probably didn't go far in that > direction. Yes, I would surmise that by 500 the Nithian holdings in the Hinterlands are already long gone, since the pre-Thyatian tribes returned in 600 BC. I =20 was actually thinking about their situation after their return. I =20 guess they would not be under Nithian rule. > Thanatos and Ranivorous as > the opponents, Ixion and Ka on the other hand could be involved as > patrons of Nithia. I am pretty much limited by certain elements of the campaign which I =20 developed long time ago, during the first years of our campaign (15-20 =20 years ago). The Nithian connection was one of the first large mythic =20 elements of the campaign. However, I developed it at the time when I =20 only had access to a limited range of canon works - not even HW. Thus =20 I had to script most of the stuff on immortals. In our campaign Nithia =20 was overseen by a triumvirate of immortals (Thanatos, Rathanos, and an =20 undead patron whom I swiped from Dragonlance books). Due to some =20 narrative reasons it was impossible to change this later. I have been =20 able to enrichen the history of Nithia a litle bit, but the trumvirate =20 is a necessary element. La Volpe's ideas are very interesting. One element of my scenario =20 actually touches on it. I decided long ago that it is not a bead of =20 oblivion, it is a Beast of Oblivion. It is an alien being, very =20 Lovecraftian, who was released into the world as a result of the final =20 battles over Nithia - and the immortals involved took advantage of it. All in all, I agree that it is not so interesting to have the "good" =20 immortals just destroy Nithia. I'm thinking more about a long process =20 of them trying to influence Nithian development (Odinian missionaries, =20 penance in the form of drought - Alfheim behind it, rebellions in =20 Thothia, the arrival of the proto-Thyatians). But the final =20 destruction was perhaps more like things getting out of hand, as all =20 parties of the struggle release too powerful entities into the world. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 13 Feb 2008 to 14 Feb 2008 (#2008-25) ***************************************************************