Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 26 Sep 2009 to 27 Sep 2009 (#2009-57) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 28/09/2009, 17:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 13 messages totalling 653 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Trouble at the Piazza? (2) 2. Grand Duchy and Thyatian Empire Relationship (3) 3. Thyatian coinage law 4. PC Character Spreadsheets & NPCs 5. PC 1 Races 6. Karameikos: Evil Immortals? (2) 7. Karameikos: Church of Karameikos 8. Immortal Zugzul Hands out bottled Coronas 9. R: [MYSTARA] Immortal Zugzul Hands out bottled Coronas ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:08:56 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Trouble at the Piazza? ________________= I've been having problems the last two days.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________= ________________=0AFrom: Havard Faanes =0ATo: MYSTARA-L= @ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=0ASent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 3:08:23 AM=0ASubje= ct: [MYSTARA] Trouble at the Piazza?=0A=0AAm I the only one having problems= logging onto the Piazza?=0A=0A-Havard=0A=0A=0A=0A ___________________= ______________________________________=0AAlt i ett. F=E5 Yahoo! Mail med ad= ressekartotek, kalender og=0Anotisblokk. http://no.mail.yahoo.com=0A=0A****= ****************************************************************=0AThe Othe= r Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=0AThe Mystara= Homepage: http://www.pandius.com=0ATo unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@= ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=0Awith UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.=0A ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 03:14:16 -0500 From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Re: Trouble at the Piazza? I'm never sure when it's an issue with the site or just with my bad dial-up= internet connection, but it has seemed particularily difficult to get in o= ver the past couple of days. GW > =20 > ------------------------------ > =20 > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 12:37:54 +0200 > From: Giampaolo Agosta > Subject: Re: Trouble at the Piazza? > =20 > 2009/9/26 Havard Faanes : > > Am I the only one having problems logging onto the Piazza? > =20 > I could not reach the site yesterday evening, but I'm experiencing no > problems now. > =20 > GP > =20 > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > =20 > ------------------------------ --=20 An Excellent Credit Score is 750=20 See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 03:35:23 -0500 From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Re: Grand Duchy and Thyatian Empire Relationship Aloha, The particulars are never spelled out in any canon as far as I am aware of.= Many things about Thyatis' political structure is unusual (ie it's Roman = empire style but yet the typical feudal at the same time) (personally I als= o throw in elements of the Holy Roman Empire structure). All of the Grand Duchies have quite a lot of independence, and I figure the= y all have Senators in the imperial senate (which Karameikos looses when it= breaks away) - but I've never been sure about the Isle of Dawn territories= and how many -if any- they get. I also figure Karameikos stays friendly towards Thyatis after WotI, combine= d with the fact that Thyatis is severly weakened right after the WotI war. = Plus, then Karameikos starts cosying up to Darokin (didn't they join the W= DL, or am I misremembering?). The plausibility of the whole Stephan-Thincol relationship has been questio= ned before, so I guess ultimately how you believe that relationship to have= played out would also have a major impact on how it works in your campaign. For the coinage, I'm not sure if it's something I read somewhere or somethi= ng I made up, but I have it that in the traditional Thyatian currency syste= m (with things like Aes, Follis, Miliaresion, Semissis, Nomismata, Hyperpir= on, etc. not the newer Tendrius Imperial system with its Denarius, Asterius= , Lucin, & Emperor denominations), entities at all levels can produce coins= of a certaint denomination/metal. ie Imperial lords can produce base coin= s - brass, bronze, and lesser alloyed coins. The quality, denomination, an= d metal types allowed to a title holder get higher and higher the further u= p the chain one is. Greg W. --=20 An Excellent Credit Score is 750=20 See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 03:50:28 -0500 From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Thyatian coinage law In the same vein as what I mentioned in the "Re: Grand Duchy and Thyatian E= mpire Relationship" post, I found some of my as yet unfinished draft notes = on Thyatian numismatics. "At the time of the Tendrius agreement the Thyatian monetary system was in = decline. The Traditional system and its bewildering multitude of denominat= ions which had developed over the years was being stressed by the multitude= of issuing authorities, not all of whom were minting to specifications*. = The Thyatian emperor used the Tendrius agreement as an excuse to promulgate= a new monetary system, to be controlled and issued only by the Imperial Mi= nt in Thyatis City. It was hoped that this new Imperial system would phase= out the older system but the feudal rulers continue to hold the right to m= int coins**. Further the Arch- and Grand- Duchies have their own separate = traditional systems" (The Karameikan system -see relevant entry- largely co= pies the imperial systems Denarius and Asterius with the Kopec and Crona bu= t also has smaller denominations. The Ochalean system -see relevant entry-= was basically taken =91as-is=92 from Chris=92 outline. Terentias, -see re= levant entry- I decided was based more on a Spanish =96Ispan- & pirate insp= ired, swashbuckling gold doubloon & =93piece of 8=94 system, possibly Minro= thad influenced. For Westrourke I was thinking a Anglo-Saxon/Viking sceat = based system. The Pearl Islanders have not developed one, preferring simpl= e barter supplemented by use of imperial standard coins when necessary).=20= =20 *=3DThat's probably a polite understatement, as I figure easily half of tho= se in circulation are not to specs. **=3Dmy first gut take would be perhaps it breaks down as- Dukes can mint a= ny coin including Gold ones, Counts any non-Gold coin, Barons any copper or= Bronze/Brass coin, Lords and towns any Bronze/Brass/lesser alloy coin, whe= re as only the central mint could produce Platinum?? I don't really have time to work on the Thyatian numismatic entry now, but = I thought this section from my brainstorming notes might be interesting sin= ce the topic came up. cheers, Greg W. --=20 An Excellent Credit Score is 750=20 See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:07:12 -0400 From: Rodger Burns Subject: Re: Grand Duchy and Thyatian Empire Relationship Hunh. I read GAZ1 and got almost the exact opposite of your perceptions - it was always clear to me that Karameikos was basically its own Kingdom, and Stefan only styled himself as a Duke to avoid diplomatic problems. From the history background on Page 4 (emphasis added): "That's how conditions remained until thirty years ago. At that time, Duke Stefan Karameikos III, a youthful nobleman of Thyatis, struck a deal with the Emperor of Thyatis. Karameikos, in essence, traded his valuable ancestral lands for Traladara - *and a guarantee of autonomy.* The Emperor recognized Karameikos' claim to Traladara, now renamed the Grand Duchy of Karameikos, and recalled its officials from Traladara territory." The DM's history background goes into more detail on Page 14 (again emphasis added): "Karameikos surrendered his ancestral lands to the Emperor. The few properties he had remaining he sold for the ships and goods he'd need to rule the region properly. The Emperor, in return, recognized Traladara as*the Grand Duchy of Karameikos, a sovereign region * under the rule of Stefan Karameikos III." And a little bit later on the same page: "It may seem peculiar to today's students that Karameikos took the title of Duke instead of King, but he had compelling reasons for his course of action. Foremost among them was the fact that, by defining Karameikos as a duchy, Duke Stefan created the impression in surrounding nations that the duchy was beholden to, and protected by, the empire of Thyatis. This was of critical importance in forestalling invasion by outside nations. In spite of the public announcement of the Grand Duchy's autonomy and the signing of all documents to that effect, in spite of the fact that Thyatis sent an ambassador with Duke Stefan and recalled all tax collectors, the common impression in the region's early years was that it was just another duchy belonging to Thyatis." On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Joaquin Menchaca wrote: > I was wondering about the relationship between Karameikos (Grand Duchy) and > Thyatis. The GAZ1 almost reads as if it is a Kingdom, even though it is a > Grand Duchy. What's interesting is that GDofK can mint their own currency, > which I would think be a big no-no in any rational thinking as it represents > sovereignty over that of the Empire. > > The other thing that is weird is the presence of ambassadors. How can a > vassal state have separate unique ambassadorial representatives separate > from Thyatian Empire. Shouldn't these ambassadors be in the appropriate > government, the capital? This again seems like the GAZ1 was written as a > Kingdom, perhaps forward thinking... Any vassal territory that has > independent relations would definitely draw ire and maybe landing of troops. > > In B6 Veiled Society (personal favorite), players interact with a senator. > They don't mention what he's a senator for. If I would imagine, he would > be a senator of Thyatis, but represent Karameikos's interests. > > If Karameikos was a separate kingdom with suzerain relation to Thyatis, > this could make some sense. Thyatis would keep Karameikos safe being a weak > state on the borders that could turn into a threat, but to so, would put > Traladarans initially into power. Duke and friends would then be real > conquerors, controlling an already independent nation (either before or > after the Thyatian invasion). > > Later, in the boxed set, where Karameikos is indeed a separate kingdom, > they invite Alphatia wizards to help out with the magic school. For Thyatis > position, this would be "conquer Karameikos mode" big time, I don't see how > the Emperor could allow the Duke to annex Karameikos and then collaborate > with the enemy. Things don't make rational sense. This would put > Karameikos in a direct opposition with Glantri and Thyatis, Heldann > Freeholds, as well as other nations that are aligned with either Glantri or > Thyatis, or aligned against Alphatia, like Ierendi Honor Island. It could > undoubtedly cause a divide between Darokin, and invite trouble from > Hule/Sind, which would avoid Karameikos in the past to not gain attention > from Thyatis proper... > > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 12:41:26 EDT From: Erol Bayburt Subject: Re: Grand Duchy and Thyatian Empire Relationship AOL - that's how I understood things too; GAZ1 was my first entry into things Mystara. If the relationship between the Grand Dutchy and the Empire is confusing to gamers and to module authors - well, it was meant to be confusing (byzantine, even) to the other nations in the area. In a message dated 9/27/2009 9:07:39 AM Central Daylight Time, eldersphinx@GMAIL.COM writes: > Hunh. I read GAZ1 and got almost the exact opposite of your perceptions - > it was always clear to me that Karameikos was basically its own Kingdom, and > Stefan only styled himself as a Duke to avoid diplomatic problems. From the > history background on Page 4 (emphasis added): > > "That's how conditions remained until thirty years ago. At that time, Duke > Stefan Karameikos III, a youthful nobleman of Thyatis, struck a deal with > the Emperor of Thyatis. Karameikos, in essence, traded his valuable > ancestral lands for Traladara - *and a guarantee of autonomy.* The Emperor > recognized Karameikos' claim to Traladara, now renamed the Grand Duchy of > Karameikos, and recalled its officials from Traladara territory." > > The DM's history background goes into more detail on Page 14 (again emphasis > added): > > "Karameikos surrendered his ancestral lands to the Emperor. The few > properties he had remaining he sold for the ships and goods he'd need to > rule the region properly. The Emperor, in return, recognized > Traladara as*the Grand Duchy of Karameikos, a sovereign region > * under the rule of Stefan Karameikos III." > > And a little bit later on the same page: > > "It may seem peculiar to today's students that Karameikos took the title of > Duke instead of King, but he had compelling reasons for his course of > action. Foremost among them was the fact that, by defining Karameikos as a > duchy, Duke Stefan created the impression in surrounding nations that the > duchy was beholden to, and protected by, the empire of Thyatis. This was of > critical importance in forestalling invasion by outside nations. In spite > of the public announcement of the Grand Duchy's autonomy and the signing of > all documents to that effect, in spite of the fact that Thyatis sent an > ambassador with Duke Stefan and recalled all tax collectors, the common > impression in the region's early years was that it was just another duchy > belonging to Thyatis." > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Joaquin Menchaca > wrote: > > > I was wondering about the relationship between Karameikos (Grand Duchy) and > > Thyatis. The GAZ1 almost reads as if it is a Kingdom, even though it is a > > Grand Duchy. What's interesting is that GDofK can mint their own currency, > > which I would think be a big no-no in any rational thinking as it represents > > sovereignty over that of the Empire. > > > > The other thing that is weird is the presence of ambassadors. How can a > > vassal state have separate unique ambassadorial representatives separate > > from Thyatian Empire. Shouldn't these ambassadors be in the appropriate > > government, the capital? This again seems like the GAZ1 was written as a > > Kingdom, perhaps forward thinking... Any vassal territory that has > > independent relations would definitely draw ire and maybe landing of troops. > > > > In B6 Veiled Society (personal favorite), players interact with a senator. > > They don't mention what he's a senator for. If I would imagine, he would > > be a senator of Thyatis, but represent Karameikos's interests. > > > > If Karameikos was a separate kingdom with suzerain relation to Thyatis, > > this could make some sense. Thyatis would keep Karameikos safe being a weak > > state on the borders that could turn into a threat, but to so, would put > > Traladarans initially into power. Duke and friends would then be real > > conquerors, controlling an already independent nation (either before or > > after the Thyatian invasion). > > > > Later, in the boxed set, where Karameikos is indeed a separate kingdom, > > they invite Alphatia wizards to help out with the magic school. For Thyatis > > position, this would be "conquer Karameikos mode" big time, I don't see how > > the Emperor could allow the Duke to annex Karameikos and then collaborate > > with the enemy. Things don't make rational sense. This would put > > Karameikos in a direct opposition with Glantri and Thyatis, Heldann > > Freeholds, as well as other nations that are aligned with either Glantri or > > Thyatis, or aligned against Alphatia, like Ierendi Honor Island. It could > > undoubtedly cause a divide between Darokin, and invite trouble from > > Hule/Sind, which would avoid Karameikos in the past to not gain attention > > from Thyatis proper... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 09:53:47 -0700 From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: PC Character Spreadsheets & NPCs I created these to tailor them to PC, but I will use them for NPC in the game as well. Don't know if anyone is interested in them. They are Karameikos PCs and NPCs, min/max'd abilities, powers, so they are of epic hereo category. One thing I will do for NPC villians, is have a journal, just like PCs. This will track their happenings with the PCs out with other NPCs, give them XP over time. So as the party progresses in XP, so do the villians. This is good for mastermind type villian thwarting the PCs at every turn. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:52:57 -0400 From: David Knott Subject: Re: PC 1 Races The races in PC 1 are as follows: Mortal: Centaur Dryad Faun Hsiao Treant Wood Imp Fairy: Brownie/Redcap Leprechaun Pixie Pooka Sidhe Sprite Woodrake I suspect that most of these races can be found in the wilder and more rural areas of Karameikos. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MYSTARA-L automatic digest system" To: Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 3:00 AM Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 25 Sep 2009 to 26 Sep 2009 (#2009-56) > > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:57:49 -0700 > From: Joaquin Menchaca > Subject: PC 1 Races? > > I was wondering if anyone can detail all the races found in PC1 and any relation to them in Karameikos. > > I have PC1 at home back in the states, but I'm in Korea. I tried to find it on the Internet without any luck. :'( ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:45:03 -0700 From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Karameikos: Evil Immortals? What is a good good of disease that would be god to use for Mystara region? I would like to find one for this area, but also any others that might operate in western Karameikos, especially from Black Eagle Barony. Any thoughts, suggestions? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:49:01 -0700 From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Karameikos: Church of Karameikos I'm going to go with my one true God story arc and use Mithras as the one god for Karameikos. There is recognition that there are powerful entities, especially Immortals that grant powers, but there is something special in their minds about Mithras, that he is somehow the progenitor of powerful cosmic magic that gives all Immortals their power, or somehow spark an event that caused creation from a reality beyond reality. In any event, the worshipers are bent on this One True Gold type of thing. The domains are: Glory, Good, Law, Sun, War Chosen Weapon: Long Sword Alignment: LG - Joaquin ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:29:06 -0700 From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Immortal Zugzul Hands out bottled Coronas During the rise of Nithia, Zugzul formed a cult that was crazy about beer making. He was worshipped as Corona, and the beer was named after their Immortal Patron... Afterwards, he started eroding Rathanos and Pflarr's faithful flocks, as no one could resist that tasty beer Corona. Now after all these years, Corona has come back, and is starting beer making operations in Five Shires and Karameikos. They will use this beer to infiltrate Rockhome with the tasty beer Corona... Resources: - http://www.pandius.com/zugzul.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:30:06 +0000 From: la Volpe Subject: R: [MYSTARA] Immortal Zugzul Hands out bottled Coronas ROFL --- Lun 28/9/09, Joaquin Menchaca ha scritto: Da: Joaquin Menchaca Oggetto: [MYSTARA] Immortal Zugzul Hands out bottled Coronas A: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Data: Luned=EC 28 settembre 2009, 03:29 During the rise of Nithia, Zugzul formed a cult that was crazy about beer m= aking. He was worshipped as Corona, and the beer was named after their Immo= rtal Patron... Afterwards, he started eroding Rathanos and Pflarr's faithful flocks, as no= one could resist that tasty beer Corona. Now after all these years, Corona has come back, and is starting beer makin= g operations in Five Shires and Karameikos.=A0 They will use this beer to i= nfiltrate Rockhome with the tasty beer Corona... Resources: - http://www.pandius.com/zugzul.html =A0 =A0 =A0=20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. =0A=0A=0A ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:48:26 -0400 From: Rodger Burns Subject: Re: Karameikos: Evil Immortals? Mystara is somewhat short on canon Immortals dealing with disease and decay. However in a pinch an aspect or identity of Demogorgon might serve - she has that tentacle-rot attack suggesting an affinity, and might be prayed to by the unhinged or desperate. And her rivalry with Orcus makes for interesting politics considering his interest in the vampires and devil swine of old Traladara. On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Joaquin Menchaca wrote: > What is a good good of disease that would be god to use for Mystara region? > I would like to find one for this area, but also any others that might > operate in western Karameikos, especially from Black Eagle Barony. > > Any thoughts, suggestions? > > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 26 Sep 2009 to 27 Sep 2009 (#2009-57) ***************************************************************