Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Oct 2009 to 2 Oct 2009 (#2009-62) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 03/10/2009, 17:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 4 messages totalling 736 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Metaphysical Thoughts... 2. Grand Duchy and Thyatian Empire Relationship (2) 3. MYSTARA-L Digest - 30 Sep 2009 to 1 Oct 2009 (#2009-61) - Thyatia and her provinces ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 02:01:29 -0700 From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Metaphysical Thoughts... In White Wolfs universe, they have Wyld (Yarn Spinner), Weaver (Tapestry Maker), and then their is Wyrm (Pattern Breaker). The "Yarn Spinner whirled through every part of the world, creating bright pockets of matter. Tapestry Maker took those pockets and arranged them into garments and crafted things, and pattern Breaker saw the bright, new items and broke them apart so there would always be room for newly created objects to exist" (Gurahl page 34) > From this that passage, it would seem that Yarn Spinner is Creation, while the Pattern Breaker is Destruction. The Tapestry Maker would be equivalent to Order. The Yarn Spinner in some way seems to be Chaos, as it creates matter, while the other orders this chaotic creation. Many of the magical creatures (dragons, fey, spirits) existed from chaos, in dreams and over time vanish as gradually as there is more order in the universe. The Destruction could be a form of chaos as well, but a destructive force of chaos. In the beginning Yarn Spinner and Tapestry Maker could be creation, but later in the end Tapestry Maker and Pattern Breaker are warring forms of Destruction, Pattern Breakers the destruction of Order, and Tapestry Maker the destruction of Chaos. In Mystara, Entropy sphere in a way represents Destruction while the other spheres represent Creation. In another time, there would a sphere for Creation, while all the other spheres represent an aspect of Entropy. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 02:10:52 -0700 From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Re: Grand Duchy and Thyatian Empire Relationship If I put myself in the soft-green boots of Vyalian elves, I would imagine that there would be differing views. Naturally none of them want to be divided. Some may view to let humans do what humans do and keep out of politics, but then there is an "official county" in Thyatians, which poses a problem to sovereignty. Most elves wouldn't press the issue, as they are outside the law of either Thyatis or Karameikos, but there may be a day when they have to deal with the matter, especially if both became antagonistic, with Karameikos inviting Alphatian mages to help build their school of magic. Some elves more involved and knowledgeable of Human politics, would imagine their lands to be a separate nation, outside of Thyatis and Karameikos control, so the Karameikan borders would exclude some the forests and this is the same issue with Thyatis. Those more adept in politics would declare that part of Vyalia is indeed a conty, while the Western part is a separate state, than spans into Karameikos. In any event, most won't press the issue, as long as they are left alone. What could get interesting is if they start purging bandits, monstrous populations, or cutting down parts of the forests, they'll run into trouble, as Vyalians won't take kindly to trespass and will defend their lands. Humanoids might take refuge in Vyalian lands because of this. The intrigue could get complex. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 11:54:36 -0400 From: Kveld Ulf Subject: Re: MYSTARA-L Digest - 30 Sep 2009 to 1 Oct 2009 (#2009-61) - Thyatia and her provinces < Subject: Re: Grand Duchy and Thyatian Empire Relationship < the implications of a "senate" - the senate is merely a body where the > nobility represent their interests to the emperor, not anything to do > with the "unwashed masses".=20 of course, a good distinction to spell out given the modern=20 connotation of the word.>> On reflection, the Holy Roman Empire (HRH) might again be a good reference for the Thyatian senate. While the origins of the senate were a council of tribal leaders advising the emperor, by the time period of the Gazetteers the senate is an unelected body of nobility who advise the emperor. The "modern senate" of Thyatis would thus be similar to the Electors of the HRH. Don't remember it being specifically stated in canon how the succession of the Thyatian empire works. The defaults would be either hereditary or force of arms (coup) by rival claimants, but you could actually go with the senate selecting the emperor from their ranks (the old emperor's heirs would of course be both nobles and senators). Aside from the electors of the HRH, another good mental model to use would be the selection of the Pope by the Council of Cardinals. In fact, that could make for a fun scenario for high level characters, particularly if some of them have acquired Thyatian titles and possibly senate seats (or they have friends / allies in that position). The old emperor dies, and the succession scramble begins as rival claimants maneuver by means fair and foul to get voted in by the senate. Would make a good intrigue thread for those who dig intrigue and skullduggery. < represented either - they are conquered, made into provinces, and then > subjected to either taxation, tribute at the government level, or both > under the control of a governor (perhaps proconsul) appointed by the > emperor.=20 For the provinces/protectorates specifically yes. Of course with=20 Thyatis you've got the complications of the Vyalia, the Dwarves,=20 the Ochaleans, the Nuari, etc. to consider how they fit in to the=20 structure.>> If you go by the Roman model, each of these groups would have one of two relationships with the empire proper - either client kingdoms or provinces (provinciae). The demihuman groups I would assume would be client kingdoms - they are mostly independent (have full latitude to run their internal affairs), but subordinate themselves to the Thyatian emperor with regards to foreign policy and alliances. The emperor might treat them with a light hand since they mostly keep to themselves, are not especially numerous, occupy marginal lands (mountains and thick forests) and keep them secure against outsiders, and provide unique assets to the empire. The Ochaleans, Nuari etc. could be either client kingdoms or full provinces. In my world, I'd make them full provinces - with a governor and with their people having full Thyatian citizenship. Note the the indigenous leadership would still be around and do much of the actual ruling. The Thyatian governor would be there to make sure taxes were collected, law administered and the interests of the emperor looked after (backed by a legion or two of troops of course). The leading local nobility would be given Thyatian titles to reward their loyalty and the highest ranking might have senate seats in the Thyatian senate. Of course, local nobility and citizens alike would be regarded by most native Thyatians (esp those of Hattian backgroun) as country bumpkins at best and fake citizens at worst. The provincials would be in much the same position as Spaniards, Syrians etc. in the Roman empire in the first two centuries AD - working their way into the society until they enjoyed similar status and prestige as the Italic natives of the empire. Andy -----Original Message----- From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Sent: Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:00 am Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 30 Sep 2009 to 1 Oct 2009 (#2009-61) There are 4 messages totalling 372 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Grand Duchy and Thyatian Empire Relationship (3) 2. MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Sep 2009 to 30 Sep 2009 (#2009-60) - Karameikos and Oceansend ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 09:16:27 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Grand Duchy and Thyatian Empire Relationship Greg Weatherup wrote: >> Well, for example the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg is a sovereign >> Grand Duchy in the real world since the Congress of Vienna, >> detached from the Empire. > > technically that's correct, but I fear it might be a bit misleading > to someone reading this, so let me attempt to clarify. It was made a > grand duchy by the congress of vienna, as you say, but it was not a > sovereign G.D. until the death of William III in 1890 when differing > succession laws within Luxembourg vs. within the Netherlands resulted > in its seperation from the Netherlands as a sovereign G.D. > (Luxembourg at the time still followed a Salic style law where-by a > woman could not succeed to the throne) IIRC, Luxembourg and the Netherlands were in personal union before that time, which technically means it was independent, and shared its monarch with the Netherlands "by accident". > Duke and Grand Duke can be used for either a sovereign or a > non-sovereign title. Duke, usually, means 'not sovereign' but often > (but not always) with some degree of autonomy, but there are > exceptions. Originally, "Duke" was a title used by subordinate germanic chiefs in the Roman-Barbarian kingdoms. However, in Italy (especially central and southern Italy), Lombard dukes were essentially independent from the (weak) northern Italian crown. The Duke title was then used by city-state leaders ("doge"), both elected and dynastic. Italian states (including Duchies) were technically vassals of the Holy Roman Empire, but Tuscany was raised to the status of an independent Grand Duchy under the Medici. There were thereafter many sovereign duchies in Italy, up to the unification. G. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ----------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 03:09:47 -0700 From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Re: Grand Duchy and Thyatian Empire Relationship Some questions: (1) What were the tax relations in RW for Grand Duchy? (2) What should be the tax relationions between GDoK and Thyatis (3) What would be repsonsibilities of GDoK, should Thyatis go to war? (4) What would be obligations of Thyatis should GDoK get invaded or need to quell a rebellion? Some ideas: (1) Duke SK II could still hold is originally holdings, and just pay to establish new relationship. He could have personal union between two states, maybe have a relative manage the ohter estates. (2) Duke could then later barter that territory for more automny with Karameikos. What could be interesting is political and military intrigue in either region could involve PCs in two areas, and have complex relationships between other states, such as a Baron in of of Duke's holdings, is a Baron in another holdings, etc. (3) Traladaran revolts with Thyatis involvment or not. (4) Five Shires migrates and potentially ceeds parts of Western Karameikos. (5) Naturally Black Eagle Barony intrigue (6) Karameikos declares independence, possible incursions from Thyatis, or cooperation (PC involvement here) (7) Desert Nomads thing (8) Have time period with more imperial Thyatis presence, and then later lesser Thyatis presence, and a devleoping unique Karameikan identity as Thyatians assimulate to Traldaran culture. (9) Popular revolts from Traladara, Robin Hoods, Monsterous and Fey revolts, etc. (10) Epic campaign.. the secret huge empire of Gnomes which is underground, mumuhuhuhahaha... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ----------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 12:30:30 -0400 From: Kveld Ulf Subject: Re: MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Sep 2009 to 30 Sep 2009 (#2009-60) - Karameikos and Oceansend < Subject: Re: Grand Duchy and Thyatian Empire Relationship Thank you so much. With this, I have some things I can look into and narrow my research. It is great. What I was thinking is tweaking the relationship a little, so that Thyatis is always looming there, but Karameikos is semi-autonomous, and then finding colorful ways to move it toward autonomy, to full independence. I want the Thyatian impact felt more, and then go with the GAZ in that people are feeling united. Though I would not want to gloss over it lightly, people don't just give up their culture, and superior group (education, might, wealth, etc.) is not going to just embrace what they deem as inferior, though it has happened, (Norse Viking rulers assimilated to Slavic indigenous people in early Russia). Realistic strife and dimension and of course, PC adventures. Again thank you so much for history mentions, that stuff gets me excited. - Joaquin>> For what its worth, I'll put the northern kingdom (city state, really) of Oceansend forward as an example of a Thyatian spinoff state. In the canon Mystaran histories (CM1 Test of the Warlords, Dawn of the Emperors etc.) Oceansend is described as a former Thyatian colony, now independent. The population is only 40,000 (20,000 in the city and environs proper) and its way up in the north. From a strategic standpoint, an Oceansend colony makes good sense. Having a naval base up there gives you somewhere to operate from to monitor the northern shipping lanes and what's coming through the strait between the Isle of Dawn and Norwold. It makes a good counter to the (at the time) Alphatian colony of Helskir on the northern tip of the Isle of Dawn. In my Mystara, Oceansend (Mareterminus in native Thyatian, named so since the earliest Thyatians thought it was the northern end of the Ocean, similar to the reasoning behind the naming of the "Final Range" mountains) was founded as a naval base to operate against the Alphatians, as well as to support trade (including slaving operations) with the northern tribes. The base featured a small squadron of ships as well as a full legion of soldiery (10 cohorts plus attached Kerendan cavalry and dwarven mercenary engineers). Along with the legion, several thousand bureacrats, merchants, craftsmen, camp followers and what have you also immigrated to the colony in its first decade. As time went on, the troops inevitably began to "go native" - marrying local women, etc.; similarly, the local tribes began to get "Thyatianized" (like the Gauls and Britons became Romanized in our world). Although both groups kept their ethnic identity, they started to think of themselves as Oceansenders. As the colony became successful and prosperous, it remained under military rule (the legionary commander) rather than being assigned a governor, but since the legionary commanders were generally Thyatian nobility anyway this was a moot point. When the Alphatians smashed the Thyatian imperial center in the Spike attack, it looked like the empire was totally defeated. Faced with this probablility, the commander of the Oceansend garrison decided to declare autonomy to hopefully avoid being crushed by an Alphatian expeditionary force (instead negotiating with them as a neutral state). Not everyone in Oceansend agreed and there was a revolt by Thyatian loyalists; these were defeated and allowed to return by ship to Thyatis peacefully. When the dust settled and Thyatis still stood, it was an awkward situation. The now independent king of Oceansend could not simply "undeclare independence" and rejoin Thyatis, or he would face charges of treason and possible execution. The Alphatians could take the small kingdom themselves but were otherwise occupied and content to leave the tiny kingdom alone as a thorn in Thyatis' foreign policy. The Thyatians, still reeling from the aftermath of the Spike attack, were in no position to retake their old colony by force and risk a face-off with Alphatia, which would surely be drawn in. In my game, the Stormhaven dwarves were another wrinkle; they were a "lost colony" of dwarves from Rockhome who were blown off course enroute to Alphatia when there was a migration to that country. When the Thyatian troops discovered "lost dwarves" living in the mountains north of Oceansend, there was a sensation in Rockhome. With the Stormhaven dwarves firmly committed by treaty to aid Oceansend against attack, a Thyatian reconquest force which fought said dwarves would have risked Thyatis' relations with Rockhome, causing more problems it did not need. Just thought I'd throw that out there as a sort of comparitive study in former Thyatian colonies.. Andy ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ----------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 16:38:16 -0500 From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Re: Grand Duchy and Thyatian Empire Relationship Carl Matthews wrote: > Can I just add my agreement to what Jason said. I think learning historic= =3D > al nuggets like this is great, Thanks, guys. :) > My two-pennies worth: The D=3D > uchy was traded off as worthless border land by the crown to a family in = =3D > return for central lands viewed as more valuable by the ruling family. Th= =3D > e crown might well have thought 'Duke Stefan can have it and any time we = =3D > want it, we can take it back.'=20 yup, or more likely "... and if Stefan's successors get out of hand=20 we can retake it anytime" with Thincol not expecting any problem=20 from Stefan (his friend) himself... > P.s Had to check my spelling; typed Du=3D > cky by mistake TWICE! and a spell-check will not help there! ;) Kveld Ulf wrote: > As described, Thyatis is a sot of funky hybrid between Roman-Byzantine > imperialism and feudalism. It has both senators and nobles (the > senators being likely drawn from the nobility) who operate under the > rule of the emperor (who would in turn be backed by the military and a > bureacracy of tax collectors, etc.). very good discription, I believe.... > =20 > Thyatis as a state is a mix of three ethnic groups (tribes) - the > Thyatians, Kerendans and Hattians. The mostly likely development of > these three groups given the end result would be similar to the Romans. > The Thyatian tribes early on set up an empire in which nobles from all > three tribes contribute to the senate, with an emperor as overall top > dog. This idea of an emperor in early Thyatia might be closer to the > historical model as the "king of kings" (in this case, each of the > three tribes has a king and nobility, and the reigning emperor is the > feudal superior of the three kings). The senate is composed of nobles > from all three tribes, which in turn advises the "king of kings" on > matters relevant to all three tribes. > =20 A lot of this discription could perhaps fit Thyatis before the=20 Alphatian conquest. > The core state of Thyatia does not have a representative system despite > the implications of a "senate" - the senate is merely a body where the > nobility represent their interests to the emperor, not anything to do > with the "unwashed masses".=20 of course, a good distinction to spell out given the modern=20 connotation of the word. > As Thyatia adds provinces, these are not > represented either - they are conquered, made into provinces, and then > subjected to either taxation, tribute at the government level, or both > under the control of a governor (perhaps proconsul) appointed by the > emperor.=20 For the provinces/protectorates specifically yes. Of course with=20 Thyatis you've got the complications of the Vyalia, the Dwarves,=20 the Ochaleans, the Nuari, etc. to consider how they fit in to the=20 structure. > Anyway.. Centuries later, you have an extremely powerful noble - > Stephan Karameikos. He is powerful enough to launch a political (and > perhaps military) challenge to the reigning emperor but chooses not to. > Instead of staying in the Thyatian box, he makes a bargain with the > emperor - in exchange for giving up his native lands, he will conquer > Karameikos using his own forces (something the empire cannot currently > afford to do for whatever reason - otherwise occupied, weak military, > etc.). The new province will enjoy a unique relationship with Thyatis > as a Grand Duchy. The terms include Karameikos and his heirs guaranteed > to rule the new province in perpetuity (no governors from the empire), > relative autonomy so long as they protect the western flank of Thyatis > (freeing up imperial troops for action against the main enemy Alphatia > as well as foreign adventurism in the Hinterlands and elsewhere), the > responsibility to provide troops to Thyatis when called, and likely > some form of annual tribute. Just how much conquering is needed (given that Traladara has been a=20 conquered protectorate for about a century already) would depend on=20 the tone and needs of the particular DM's campaign (ie how much law=20 and order should there be outside of the capital).=20=20 What I wonder is how the Vyalia view(ed) all of this? Years of=20 peaceful coexistance and cooperation with the Thyatians, but now=20 there seem to be making a land grab and surrounding us? George Hrabovsky wrote: =20=20 > There is another point to be made. Since Stefan Karmameikos had the power= to > sweep in to a hilly forested land full of monsters and warrior-filled > city-states and take over=20 see my above post for a potential (or not!), issue with this. > snipped the rest cool.. I wrote: just to clarify something I wrote- > ... and some were pseudo-sovereign (ie dominated by another=20 > power, ie Prussia) I wasn't trying to imply that Prussia was a G.D., but rather that=20 Prussia was an example of another power doing the dominating of=20 some of the G.D.'s. Just wanted to clear that up given how it came=20 out sounding. :) Jason Murphy wrote: > =20 > What i find so very amusing is i remember discussing the topic of Karamei= kan > sovereignty in a considerably less sophisticated manner at age 14 or 15. = My > friends and i had just managed to get hold of the OD&D Expert Rules and > were trying to make sense of the political structure of the Known World= =20 lol. sounds like good friends for such a conversation. :) --=20 An Excellent Credit Score is 750=20 See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ----------------------------- End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 30 Sep 2009 to 1 Oct 2009 (#2009-61) ************************************************************** ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 01:00:33 -0500 From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Re: Grand Duchy and Thyatian Empire Relationship > Giampaolo Agosta wrote > IIRC, Luxembourg and the Netherlands were in personal union before that > time, which technically means it was independent, and shared its monarch > with the Netherlands "by accident". Ok, now you've done it! You've interested me into spending most of=20 a day doing some research into the subject, when I should be=20 working on other things. [/sarcasm]=20 See my next message.... > =20 > Originally, "Duke" was a title used by subordinate germanic chiefs in > the Roman-Barbarian kingdoms.=20 ah yes, the (in)famous "stem duchies". > However, in Italy (especially central and > southern Italy), Lombard dukes were essentially independent from the > (weak) northern Italian crown. The Duke title was then used by > city-state leaders ("doge"), both elected and dynastic. Italian states > (including Duchies) were technically vassals of the Holy Roman Empire, > but Tuscany was raised to the status of an independent Grand Duchy under > the Medici. since were now also talking about Duchies (rather than just Grand=20 Duchies) we could of course also go back further and mention that=20 in Roman times "Dux" (Duke) was a military commander and was=20 actually below the position of "comes" (Count). > Joaquin Menchaca wrote: > =20 > Some questions: > =20 > (1) What were the tax relations in RW for Grand Duchy? I wouldn't think there was anything different w.r.t. a G.D. vs. say a=20 regular Duchy or a County or what not. > (2) What should be the tax relationions between GDoK and Thyatis good question. Likewise for all of the grand duchies and archduchies of Th= yatis. > (3) What would be repsonsibilities of GDoK, should Thyatis go to war? Asides from forming a volunteer offensive force, there very likely=20 would be other responsibilities. > (4) What would be obligations of Thyatis should GDoK get invaded or > need to quell a rebellion? If it was invaded from outside, that would likely be seen as a=20 declaration of war on Thyatis, but as far as an internal issue, I'm=20 not sure. Again, just guessing here. > =20 > Some ideas: > =20 > (1) Duke SK II could still hold is originally holdings, and just=20 > pay to establish new relationship. He could have personal union=20 > between two states, maybe have a relative manage the ohter estates. what/which other estates are you refering to? > (2) Duke could then later barter that territory for more automny=20 > with Karameikos. What could be interesting is political and=20 > military intrigue in either region could involve PCs in two areas,=20 > and have complex relationships between other states, such as a=20 > Baron in of of Duke's holdings, is a Baron in another holdings, etc. gotta love those crazy situations in the RW, would be great to=20 include that in Mystara. > (3) Traladaran revolts with Thyatis involvment or not. but why would the traladarans trust the far away bad history=20 thyatians anymore than the local thyatians? On the other hand if=20 the Thyatians used a intermediary so that the Traladarans didn't=20 know where the help was really coming from.... (hint, hint) > (4) Five Shires migrates and potentially ceeds parts of Western=20 > Karameikos. That sentence could be taken either of two ways, either of which=20 could potentially be interesting. There's also the "Greater=20 Hindon" from the Five Shires alt. gaz. > (5) Naturally Black Eagle Barony intrigue > (6) Karameikos declares independence, possible incursions from=20 > Thyatis, or cooperation (PC involvement here) > (7) Desert Nomads thing all three are classic ideals. > (8) Have time period with more imperial Thyatis presence, and=20 > then later lesser Thyatis presence, and a devleoping unique=20 > Karameikan identity as Thyatians assimulate to Traldaran culture. already begining to happen (to an extent) in cannon. > (9) Popular revolts from Traladara, Robin Hoods, Monsterous and=20 > Fey revolts, etc. better question, what exactly are the fey revolting against, many=20 possibilities there... > (10) Epic campaign.. the secret huge empire of Gnomes which is=20 > underground, mumuhuhuhahaha... And the gnomes of Highforge are guarding the entrance, keeping the=20 other gnomes trapped down there, but which group of gnomes are the=20 good guys? :) 8| Now I'm condoning gnome on gnome violence. I think It's time=20 for a break..... --=20 An Excellent Credit Score is 750=20 See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Oct 2009 to 2 Oct 2009 (#2009-62) *************************************************************