Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 20 Aug 2011 to 21 Aug 2011 (#2011-67) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 22/08/2011, 17:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 3 messages totalling 209 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. investigated Hasbro DnD (aka 4e) (3) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:53:15 -0700 From: Darknerd Subject: investigated Hasbro DnD (aka 4e) I just checked out DnD 4e. I do know it is a major departure from everythin= g that we know is DnD, and it feels more like a pen and paper World of Warcr= sft. But given its popularity, I want to try playing a few games. it may b= e a decent system in its iwn right, but I have difficulty thinking of it as a= DnD system. Now the question is, can it be adapted into Mystara. I think this would req= uire major work, more so than DnD 3e or prrvious systems. They and some new= rsces, and all the classes have powers, rather than current spell systems. = It feels more like a superhero game with specific classes and abilities. E= ach class has to be looked at and determine if it is suitable for Mystara, t= hen from there make new classes for Mystara, augment existing classes, or mo= dify or change the powers. The races need to be evaluated as well. Some ma= y be removed, others would be added. Before, the classes could be added as is, maybe minor tweaks. Many classes h= ad access to the same set of spells or had powers that mimicked spell powers= . But this system has wholly unique powers for every class, making it diffi= cult to adjust or adapt. Also monsters, like classes with have their own po= wers, auras, that may not be similiar to how monsters work in Mystara. Still, it is a fascinating system. I look foward to trying it out. - Joaquin PS - also this is a closed system, so any derivitive works would not be welc= omed. In DnD3e, there was a flexible open game license and thriving communi= ty, but not with this system. For this reason, I standardize on Pathfinder f= or Mystara campaigns and official contributions. I will still dabble with D= nD4e, as I would with GURPS and Castles & Crusades, and other d20 systems.= ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:10:44 -0700 From: Dave Keyser Subject: Re: investigated Hasbro DnD (aka 4e) Have you looked at Essentials? I don't know much about 4E, but it appears they brought back the original fighter and some other classes to work as they did pre-4E. And you can more or less have a 4E fighter and a 4E essentials fighter in the same campaign, though they work different mechanically. Dave On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Darknerd wrote: > > I just checked out DnD 4e. =A0I do know it is a major departure from ever= ything that we know is DnD, and it feels more like a pen and paper World of= Warcrsft. =A0But given its popularity, I want to try playing a few games. = =A0it may be a decent system in its iwn right, but I have difficulty thinki= ng of it as a DnD system. > > > > Now the question is, can it be adapted into Mystara. =A0I think this woul= d require major work, more so than DnD 3e or prrvious systems. =A0They and = some new rsces, and all the classes have powers, rather than current spell = systems. =A0It feels more like a superhero game with specific classes and a= bilities. =A0Each class has to be looked at and determine if it is suitable= for Mystara, then from there make new classes for Mystara, augment existin= g classes, or modify or change the powers. =A0The races need to be evaluate= d as well. =A0Some may be removed, others would be added. > > > > Before, the classes could be added as is, maybe minor tweaks. =A0Many cla= sses had access to the same set of spells or had powers that mimicked spell= powers. =A0But this system has wholly unique powers for every class, makin= g it difficult to adjust or adapt. =A0Also monsters, like classes with have= their own powers, auras, that may not be similiar to how monsters work in = Mystara. > > > > Still, it is a fascinating system. =A0I look foward to trying it out. > > > > - Joaquin > > > > PS - also this is a closed system, so any derivitive works would not be w= elcomed. =A0In DnD3e, there was a flexible open game license and thriving c= ommunity, but not with this system. =A0For this reason, I standardize on Pa= thfinder for Mystara campaigns and official contributions. =A0I will still = dabble with DnD4e, as I would with GURPS and Castles & Crusades, and other = d20 systems. > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:11:13 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: investigated Hasbro DnD (aka 4e) On 22 August 2011 05:10, Dave Keyser wrote: > > Have you looked at Essentials? I don't know much about 4E, but it > > appears they brought back the original fighter and some other classes > > to work as they did pre-4E. Some Essentials classes (Fighter, Mage, Thief and Ranger) are indeed somewhat more in line with what you would expect from pre-4e character classes -- but they still don't work as in previous editions (the Fighter still has utility powers, and even encounter powers, though it's just one). The real issue is with many spells that do not exist anymore or do not work as in other editions, and with a general lack of adaptability -- whereas in 3e or AD&D you could find many tweakings of classes and races, 4e's focus on game balance makes tweaking very limited (I'd say even discouraged). Thus, "adapting" 4e is more a matter of deciding which aspects of Mystara you will make available to player characters. Here is a guideline of adaptable races and classes. Races: Humans, Dwarves, and Elf match the corresponding race in Mystara. Eladrin can represent the Sidhe. Halflings can represent Hin, even though the Halfling iconography in 4e matches the 3e Halfling rather than the OD&D/AD&D one. Shifters can represent Lupins and Rakasta (though it is a very poor match). Gnomes are not very suitable to represent Mystaran Gnomes, they are more similar to Brownies. Other standard races are not that useful, and can be ignored; some goblinoid races are available, though mostly as NPC races (i.e., you don't get feat support). Classes: Knights and Slayers (Essentials Fighter subclasses) represent Fighters (core Fighters can also be used) Thieves (Essentials Rogue subclass) represent Thieves (core Rogues can also be used) Mages (Essentials Wizard subclass) represent Magic-Users Bladesingers (a new Essentials subclass) represent Elves/Foresters (Hexblades can be used instead of Bladesingers, depending on individual taste; neither is a precise match anyway) Warpriests (Essentials cleric subclass) represent Clerics (though the existing domain selection allows only priests of Ixion, Rathanos, Thor, Takhati, Kagyar, Terra, Ka, Thanatos and similar Immortals linked to the Sun, Storm, Earth and Dearth domains) Cavaliers (Essentials Paladin subclass) can be used to represent some types of Clerics (e.g., Clerics of Vanya and Tarastia) Rangers (Hunters and/or Scouts) can be used as Druidic Knights Sentinels (Essentials Druid subclass) can be used as Druids (alternately, you can use the core Shaman class; the core Druid class is 90% based on shapechanging, so it does not fit) Monks can be used as Mystics, but there is currently no Essentials Monk. Shamans can be used for Ethengar and Atruaghin Shamans, but there is currently no Essentials Shaman. All other classes can be ignored. Conversely, here is a guideline for converting OD&D race/classes to 4e: Fighter: Human Knight or Human Slayer or Human Scout Magic-User: Human Mage Cleric: Human Warpriest or Human Cavalier; not all Clerics can be converted, and there is no "generalist" Cleric in Essentials (you coud use the core Cleric class, though). Thief: Human Thief Druid: Human Sentinel Mystic: Human Monk (non-Essentials) Shaman and Shamani: Human Shaman Forester: Human Bladesinger of Human Hexblade Elf: Elf Bladesinger or Elf Hexblade Dwarf: Dwarf Knight or Dwarf Slayer Dwarf Cleric: Dwarf Warpriest (Earth) Halfling: Halfling Slayer or Halfling Scout Lupin (any class): Longtooth Shifter (any class) Rakasta (any class): Razorclaw Shifter (any class) Sidhe Warrior: Eladrin Bladesinger Sidhe Rogue: Eladrin Fey Hexblade Brownie: Gnome Thief Orc: Orc Slayer or Orc Knight Goblin: Goblin Slayer or Goblin Scout Gnoll: Gnoll Scout or Gnoll Slayer Hobgoblin: Hobgoblin Knight or Hobgoblin Slayer Kobold: Kobold Slayer or Kobold Thief Hope it helps, G. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 20 Aug 2011 to 21 Aug 2011 (#2011-67) ***************************************************************