Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 22 Aug 2011 to 23 Aug 2011 (#2011-69) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 24/08/2011, 17:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 4 messages totalling 200 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. investigated Hasbro DnD (aka 4e) (4) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 12:28:16 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: investigated Hasbro DnD (aka 4e) Converting Mystara to other editions and games is a really interesting exer= cise. It makes you ask yourself what Mystara is about (to you) and the answ= er will always depend on who is asking. =0A=0A=0AThe most important thing i= s to accept that it will be different. Trying to recreate the BECMI experie= nce in another edition will always fail. So you will have to accept that so= me things will work differently in the new system. If you feel that you hav= e to create a huge Word document with conversion rules, chances are taht yo= u are doing it wrong. Different is not always bad :)=0A=0A=0AHowever, some = things may touch on what you consider Holy Cows. You have made the choice t= o play 4E with Mystara instead of the Nentir Vale, so if it still feels lik= e the Nentir Vale, then perhaps you are doing something wrong? =0A=0A=0AOne= quick thing to do is have a look at the races. Between the 3 Players Handb= ooks you have a pretty wide selection. For a campaign set in Karameikos I w= ould probably not allow Dragonborn or Tieflings. As mentioned Eladrin could= represent Sidhe, but I would encourage selecting the more traditional race= s. Even if you allow a PC Eladrin, I would keep them rare as NPCs. I am les= s familiar with all the classes, but there are some that would fit less wel= l, at least in some countries. =0A=0A=0A-Havard=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________= ___________________=0AFra: Darknerd =0ATil: MYSTARA-L= @ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=0ASendt: Mandag, 22. august 2011 3.53=0AEmne: [MYSTARA]= investigated Hasbro DnD (aka 4e)=0A=0AI just checked out DnD 4e.=A0 I do k= now it is a major departure from everything that we know is DnD, and it fee= ls more like a pen and paper World of Warcrsft.=A0 But given its popularity= , I want to try playing a few games.=A0 it may be a decent system in its iw= n right, but I have difficulty thinking of it as a DnD system.=0A=0ANow the= question is, can it be adapted into Mystara.=A0 I think this would require= major work, more so than DnD 3e or prrvious systems.=A0 They and some new = rsces, and all the classes have powers, rather than current spell systems.= =A0 It feels more like a superhero game with specific classes and abilities= .=A0 Each class has to be looked at and determine if it is suitable for Mys= tara, then from there make new classes for Mystara, augment existing classe= s, or modify or change the powers.=A0 The races need to be evaluated as wel= l.=A0 Some may be removed, others would be added.=0A=0ABefore, the classes = could be added as is, maybe minor tweaks.=A0 Many classes had access to the= same set of spells or had powers that mimicked spell powers.=A0 But this s= ystem has wholly unique powers for every class, making it difficult to adju= st or adapt.=A0 Also monsters, like classes with have their own powers, aur= as, that may not be similiar to how monsters work in Mystara.=0A=0AStill, i= t is a fascinating system.=A0 I look foward to trying it out.=0A=0A- Joaqui= n=0A=0APS - also this is a closed system, so any derivitive works would not= be welcomed.=A0 In DnD3e, there was a flexible open game license and thriv= ing community, but not with this system.=A0 For this reason, I standardize = on Pathfinder for Mystara campaigns and official contributions.=A0 I will s= till dabble with DnD4e, as I would with GURPS and Castles & Crusades, and o= ther d20 systems.=0A*******************************************************= *************=0AThe Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Other= Worlds.asp=0AThe Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com=0ATo unsubscribe,= send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=0Awith UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the bo= dy of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 05:17:40 -0700 From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Re: investigated Hasbro DnD (aka 4e) =0AFor tailoring powers, this would be excessively complex. I would be cre= ating completely new game. I have yet to come across "make your own class"= rules as of yet.=0A=0AIn the Players Handbook 3, there's this hybrid class= . This provides an inkling into potential class creation. The reason why = at least this section is important to me, is that Fighter/Thief and Fighter= /Mage type of combination are really important to preserve the DnD0e Elf an= d Halfling class, as these would be significant roles in Mystara.=0A=0AFor = those that do not know, DnD4e does not allow for multi-classing. So this h= ybrid class mechanism in DnD4e-PHB3 is a solution.=0A=0AFor me personally, = I look forward to playing it. I rolled up a Dwarven 4e Ranger using so onl= ine generator written in Java. I was toying with the idea to make a Monk/B= arbarian hybrid, and do a deranged drunken monkey (think Jacky Chan movie) = dwarven character.=0A=0AI was also able to get into a local game and create= a 3.75e (Paizo PF) and make a Ranger/Barbarian whose favored enemy is Gobl= inoids. Our first encounter, goblinoids. I was one-offing Bugbear leader w= ith one stroke, then each round instant kill of goblin. Rwwwwwwaaaaar!!!! = When he's not in insane mode, I role-play using the character, Cerdic (play= ed by Stellan Skarsg=E5rd) in the 2004 movie King Arthur: "Finally Someone = Worthy of Killing". ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 15:59:28 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: investigated Hasbro DnD (aka 4e) On 23 August 2011 13:28, Havard Faanes wrote: > > The most important thing is to accept that it will be different. Trying to recreate the BECMI experience in another edition will always fail. So you will have to accept that some things will work > > differently in the new system. If you feel that you have to create a huge Word document with conversion rules, chances are taht you are doing it wrong. Different is not always bad :) I don't think the size of the conversion is what measures the correctness of the approach. I mean, this can be true for 4e, where you are not supposed to tweak the system -- there, your conversion document is nothing more than a selection of features from the game that you judge have a place in the setting. But for other editions (AD&D 2e and 3e) it is not so: even if you are explicitly not aiming at reproducing BECMI constructs, you still have a number of customization options that would be a pity to ignore. For example, you have pantheist, philosophical and specialist priests in Mystara, even if the BECMI rules for the most part consider them identical (i.e., Clerics, except for some freebie given to specialist clerics in WotI). Since 3e and AD&D have provisions for differentiating specialist priests (domains and prestige classes in 3e, kits and specialized classes in AD&D), exploiting this opportunity seems the obvious way to go. And of course there's plenty of such options for customization, given the large amount of nations you have in Mystara. The result is that any AD&D or 3e DM is likely to have a huge "conversion" document. As said, 4e is a different beast. It does not encourage or support much customization, meaning that what you'll do in a Mystara 4e campaign is more like the intersection of Mystara and 4e -- no Infernal Warlocks because there are no Devils in Mystara on one side, no Sea Giant PCs because there is no support for large races in 4e on the other. That's if you take a conservative approach -- you may want to take a more inclusive one, by adding elements that exist in 4e but not in Mystara, but that aren't specifically negated by the setting (as would be Psionics or Devils, if you stick by the Mentzer cosmology), like Dragonborn, Goliaths, Warlords or Sorcerers. GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 12:00:25 -0700 From: Boonedale Subject: Re: investigated Hasbro DnD (aka 4e) Tailoring Powerswould be done on a "as you go" type of thing. I agree it wo= uld be daunting to rewrite every power thats tied to a specific race. As fo= r 4th edition not having a=A0multi-class system, its is indeed there, only = highly restricted. You can milti-class into 2 classes (unles your a bard) y= ou just have to use feats to gain the powers of another class.=0A=0A=0A"Hap= py Hunting!"=0A=0AFrom: Joaquin Menchaca =0ATo: MYSTA= RA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=0ASent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 5:17 AM=0ASubject:= Re: [MYSTARA] investigated Hasbro DnD (aka 4e)=0A=0A=0AFor tailoring power= s, this would be excessively complex.=A0 I would be creating completely new= game.=A0 I have yet to come across "make your own class" rules as of yet.= =0A=0AIn the Players Handbook 3, there's this hybrid class.=A0 This provide= s an inkling into potential class creation.=A0 The reason why at least this= section is important to me, is that Fighter/Thief and Fighter/Mage type of= combination are really important to preserve the DnD0e Elf and Halfling cl= ass, as these would be significant roles in Mystara.=0A=0AFor those that do= not know, DnD4e does not allow for multi-classing.=A0 So this hybrid class= mechanism in DnD4e-PHB3 is a solution.=0A=0AFor me personally, I look forw= ard to playing it.=A0 I rolled up a Dwarven 4e Ranger using so online gener= ator written in Java.=A0 I was toying with the idea to make a Monk/Barbaria= n hybrid, and do a deranged drunken monkey (think Jacky Chan movie) dwarven= character.=0A=0AI was also able to get into a local game and create a 3.75= e (Paizo PF) and make a Ranger/Barbarian whose favored enemy is Goblinoids.= Our first encounter, goblinoids.=A0 I was one-offing Bugbear leader with o= ne stroke, then each round instant kill of goblin.=A0 Rwwwwwwaaaaar!!!! Whe= n he's not in insane mode, I role-play using the character, Cerdic (played = by Stellan Skarsg=E5rd) in the 2004 movie King Arthur: "Finally Someone Wor= thy of Killing".=0A=0A*****************************************************= ***************=0AThe Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Oth= erWorlds.asp=0AThe Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com=0ATo unsubscrib= e, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=0Awith UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the = body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 22 Aug 2011 to 23 Aug 2011 (#2011-69) ***************************************************************