Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Sep 2011 to 30 Sep 2011 (#2011-81) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 01/10/2011, 17:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 9 messages totalling 465 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. What classes should be covered? (5) 2. Classes (3) 3. Following Up on Mystara3E/4E guide ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 09:45:34 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: What classes should be covered? On 30 September 2011 06:53, DarkNerd wrote: > > So, I'm brain storming about this 3e/4e guide that I'd like to work on, a= nd I was wondering what classes should be included? > > > > I wanted to make red, blue, green stylized guides (basic, expert, compani= on) and just start on races and classes at first. =A0The focus would be gen= erics from the Known World. > > > > Thus for races: humans, hin, elves, dwarf, gnome. > > > > Classes, I have some ideas, obvious the ones from DnD0e, but what else be= yond those? I suppose it depends on the actual edition (3e vs 4e). However, besides the usual (Fighter, Thief, Magic-User, Cleric and Druid), a Forester and Shaman equivalents might be useful. G. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 14:05:09 -0500 From: "Erol K. Bayburt" Subject: Re: What classes should be covered? Something I've been toying around with, but haven't been able to make any progress on, is an 3.x "NPC Elf" class for Known World elves. I'm thinking of it in terms of an NPC class version of the bard, especially since I use bard as the favored PC class for elves, rather than wizard. I've also tweaked the bard class slightly to make it more martial (d8 hit dice instead of d6, longbow as a weapon proficiency instead of whip, and medium armor proficiency in addition to light). I've also made dwarves and gnomes into a single species in order to rationalize why there are no dwarven wizards in the Known World. They're still two separate races for the purposes of magic and game mechanics, but a gnome may have dwarven parents, siblings, and offspring, and vice versa. Gnomes are dwarves with arcane magic ability, and dwarves are gnomes without it. A dwarf who somehow gains arcane abilities *transforms* into a gnome, shrinking in size and having his ability scores and special racial abilities altered. This all means that dwarven communities will always include at least a few gnomes, and vice versa. It also means that dwarvish and gnomish are the same language: Dwarvish is gnomish spoken with a dwarven accent, and gnomish is dwarven spoken with a gnomish accent. Erol K. Bayburt ErolB1@aol.com On 9/29/2011 11:53 PM, DarkNerd wrote: > > So, I'm brain storming about this 3e/4e guide that I'd like to work > > on, and I was wondering what classes should be included? > > > > I wanted to make red, blue, green stylized guides (basic, expert, > > companion) and just start on races and classes at first. The focus > > would be generics from the Known World. > > > > Thus for races: humans, hin, elves, dwarf, gnome. > > > > Classes, I have some ideas, obvious the ones from DnD0e, but what > > else beyond those? > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: > > http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the > > message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 12:10:11 -0700 From: Darknerd Subject: Classes I was supposed to wait, but I am bustling with ideas, I thought I would add m= y thoughts. I am divided between including the core DnD3e type of classes vs. including o= nly the basics covered in the boxed sets, with inclusion of the later staple= classes in maybe Gazetteer related material. I was thinking of the basics for now, and if others really want more, we'll a= dd them. So essentially:=20 =46rom Basic Set: - Fighter - Wizard - Cleric - Thief/Rogue Addiitonal Consideration (Companion Set?): - Druid - Paladin - Knight - Avenger Also/Misc: - Barbarian - Monk - Ranger - Bard - Pscionic classes - Shaman - Sorcerers I would want to include the basics, plus others that are applicable to acros= s the board as far as Known World nations go: Ethengar, Glantri, Karameikos,= Athruaghin, Darokin, Minrothad, Ierendi, Yalaruam, Vest/Soderfjord/Ostaland= , Thyatis, etc. Thus a class could exist in two or more specific regions. A class that exis= t in a particular region could make sense for a follow-up Gazetteer type of m= aterial. I hope to get input on what makes sense for Mystara; what makes sense for fu= n; and what makes sense for simplicity (boxed set good ol' days).= ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 14:33:10 -0500 From: "Erol K. Bayburt" Subject: Re: Classes I know what you mean about busting with ideas... My suggestions would be for: o Bard to be a basic PC class, probably tweaked, possibly elf-only. o Ranger to be included in the Companion set, along with Druid, Paladin, etc. o Cutting down the power of the Sorcerer and making it an NPC class, using it to supplement (or replace) the Adept NPC class. o Including the Barbarian, but limiting it somehow to the appropriate cultures. o No psionics. Erol K. Bayburt ErolB1@aol.com On 9/30/2011 2:10 PM, Darknerd wrote: > > I was supposed to wait, but I am bustling with ideas, I thought I would add my thoughts. > > > > I am divided between including the core DnD3e type of classes vs. including only the basics covered in the boxed sets, with inclusion of the later staple classes in maybe Gazetteer related material. > > > > I was thinking of the basics for now, and if others really want > > more, we'll add them. So essentially: > > > > From Basic Set: > > - Fighter > > - Wizard > > - Cleric > > - Thief/Rogue > > > > Addiitonal Consideration (Companion Set?): > > - Druid > > - Paladin > > - Knight > > - Avenger > > > > Also/Misc: > > - Barbarian > > - Monk > > - Ranger > > - Bard > > - Pscionic classes > > - Shaman > > - Sorcerers > > > > I would want to include the basics, plus others that are applicable > > to across the board as far as Known World nations go: Ethengar, Glantri, Karameikos, Athruaghin, Darokin, Minrothad, Ierendi, Yalaruam, Vest/Soderfjord/Ostaland, Thyatis, etc. > > > > Thus a class could exist in two or more specific regions. A class > > that exist in a particular region could make sense for a follow-up Gazetteer type of material. > > > > I hope to get input on what makes sense for Mystara; what makes > > sense for fun; and what makes sense for simplicity (boxed set good ol' days). > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:46:21 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: What classes should be covered? On 30 September 2011 21:05, Erol K. Bayburt wrote: > > Something I've been toying around with, but haven't been able to make > > any progress on, is an 3.x "NPC Elf" class for Known World elves. IIRC, the Duskblade class in 3e is somewhat modeled on the CD&D Elf. > > I've also made dwarves and gnomes into a single species in order to > > rationalize why there are no dwarven wizards in the Known World. Well, there is an in-game explanation for that: Dwarves can't use magic because Kagyar over-designed their Radiance resistance when the Old Dwarves were dying out. OTOH, the Rockhome Gaz hints that Dwarves and Gnomes can interbreed (like humans and elves, most likely). G. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:56:06 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Classes On 30 September 2011 21:33, Erol K. Bayburt wrote: > > > > o Bard to be a basic PC class, probably tweaked, possibly elf-only. As mentioned in the other thread, the Duskblade or the Eldritch Knight might be a better choice for the Elf/Forester. > > o Ranger to be included in the Companion set, along with Druid, Paladin, > > etc. Indeed, the "druidic knight" is also mentioned in VotPA for CD&D. > > o Cutting down the power of the Sorcerer and making it an NPC class, using > > it to supplement (or replace) the Adept NPC class. I'd limit the use of Sorcerers to Old Alphatia and other high-magic planes. > > o Including the Barbarian, but limiting it somehow to the appropriate > > cultures. Yes, Barbarians are really just another take on the Fighter. Plain 3e Barbarians are more the Conan type, but I remember a discussion on the Piazza on how to use Unearthed Arcana Barbarian variants to model Ethengar and Atruaghin barbarians. > > o No psionics. Or, limit them to specific regions, like Yavdlom. G. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 14:13:40 -0700 From: Dave Keyser Subject: Re: What classes should be covered? I did something similar for a 3.5 game I am running for Savage Tide. I enforced the concept of no half-elves in the starting city, but rather than ban the mechanics of the half-elf race, I let the players still choose it as an elf. So essentially I said if you play an elf, pick either the elf racial build characteristics or the half-elf racial build characteristics and go. Dave Keyser On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Erol K. Bayburt wrote: > > Something I've been toying around with, but haven't been able to make > > any progress on, is an 3.x "NPC Elf" class for Known World elves. I'm > > thinking of it in terms of an NPC class version of the bard, especially > > since I use bard as the favored PC class for elves, rather than wizard. I've > > also tweaked the bard class slightly to make it more martial (d8 hit dice > > instead of d6, longbow as a weapon proficiency instead of whip, and medium > > armor proficiency in addition to light). > > > > I've also made dwarves and gnomes into a single species in order to > > rationalize why there are no dwarven wizards in the Known World. They're > > still two separate races for the purposes of magic and game mechanics, but a > > gnome may have dwarven parents, siblings, and offspring, and vice versa. > > Gnomes are dwarves with arcane magic ability, and dwarves are gnomes without > > it. A dwarf who somehow gains arcane abilities *transforms* into a gnome, > > shrinking in size and having his ability scores and special racial abilities > > altered. This all means that dwarven communities will always include at > > least a few gnomes, and vice versa. It also means that dwarvish and gnomish > > are the same language: Dwarvish is gnomish spoken with a dwarven accent, and > > gnomish is dwarven spoken with a gnomish accent. > > > > Erol K. Bayburt > > ErolB1@aol.com > > > > > > On 9/29/2011 11:53 PM, DarkNerd wrote: > > >> >> So, I'm brain storming about this 3e/4e guide that I'd like to work >> >> on, and I was wondering what classes should be included? >> >> >> >> I wanted to make red, blue, green stylized guides (basic, expert, >> >> companion) and just start on races and classes at first. The focus >> >> would be generics from the Known World. >> >> >> >> Thus for races: humans, hin, elves, dwarf, gnome. >> >> >> >> Classes, I have some ideas, obvious the ones from DnD0e, but what >> >> else beyond those? >> >> ************************************************************************ >> >> The Other Worlds Homepage: >> >> http://www.wizards.com/dnd/**OtherWorlds.aspThe Mystara Homepage: >> >> http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to >> >> LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the >> >> message. >> >> > > > > ************************************************************************ > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/**OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 00:51:06 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: What classes should be covered? On 30 September 2011 23:13, Dave Keyser wrote: > > I did something similar for a 3.5 game I am running for Savage Tide. I > > enforced the concept of no half-elves in the starting city, but rather than > > ban the mechanics of the half-elf race, I let the players still choose it as > > an elf. So essentially I said if you play an elf, pick either the elf racial > > build characteristics or the half-elf racial build characteristics and go. I see no problems with this approach. Actually, I'd allow players to choose half-elves as humans as well, since in Mystara a elf can have human blood, but also vice versa, and the results are not as predictable as in other settings. This would not really work in 4e, though, since the 4e Half-elf is so different from the 4e Elf. G. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:31:48 -0700 From: DarkNerd Subject: Following Up on Mystara3E/4E guide What I am thinking is doing a piece-meal Mystara 3E/4E Basic, Expert, and Co= mpanion editions, that will incorporate/follow roughly similar guidelines pr= esented in those perspective books, and try to bring their concepts forward i= nto current 3e (Paizo) and 4e (pre-Essentials) material. =20 We'll add whatever components needed, and areas we are interested in it. Ri= ght now, I'm just trying to assess what the community might be interested in= regard to classes, and jump onto other areas. Later or in lieu of this, I w= as wondering what people thought of using damage reduction & vitality/wound p= oint system into Mystara, which could allow Mystara to evolve to some SteamP= unk. After this, I will ask the community for everyone to dig up all the referenc= e of material for certain topics, e.g. elves, druids, etc. I want to incorp= orate as much canon as possible, to mold 3e/4e into Mystara's orientation an= d rich cultures in the world. For most tedious stuff, I will most likely point to outside resources or ext= ernal references. For ability/class/race and other essentials of character c= reation, I might run into copyright issues, not sure. I feel it should be u= nderground, but if I annoy anyone, it can be changed to fly clear of that. I= don't want to restrict creativity. =20 Essentially the goal is to keep Mystara flavor or variant with modern rule s= ystems out there. If there was a chance, I may someday even present a GURPs= notes as well, but for now, I'm avoiding that as I cannot even find any pla= yers in my area (SF Bay Area) that even do GURPs. SJ hasn't done very good m= arketing it seems....=20 - JM= ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Sep 2011 to 30 Sep 2011 (#2011-81) ***************************************************************