Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Oct 2011 to 2 Oct 2011 (#2011-83) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 03/10/2011, 18:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 5 messages totalling 487 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Half-Breeds and More (4) 2. MYSTARA-L Digest - 30 Sep 2011 to 1 Oct 2011 (#2011-82) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 11:39:16 -0700 From: Darknerd Subject: Half-Breeds and More As a few were talking of this I wanted to bring it up. I agree with the sent= iments expressed, and I always thought of the half-elf (rule-wise) as a sepe= rate race. There is canon that says there is no such thing as well. It was= only when trying to graft the rule-mechanics of DnD2e, did they allow it, b= ut then the books, even from DnD2e, and more so in DnD3e are not all that ca= mpaign world neutral. Now for the Mystara 3e/4e guide, I wanted to focus solely on the Known World= , which are a limited set of powerful intriguing regions. The race (forgot name) that has similar statistics of a half-elf would be a S= avage Coast. I would like to later do a follow-up on Savage Coast 3E/4E, as= this will also have lupins, rakasta and other races, including this particu= lar race. Other future ideas, would be a Gazetteer 3E/4E that would update all the Gaz= etteers. There could be Hollow World 3E/4E. =20 I'll also have my own campaign non-canon hooks seperate from all this, for m= y writeups on Calarii, Vyalia (Vishanii), and homegrown Dinarii (passionate d= uelist-predator pyschic-warriors), Linarii (logical-pasifist pscion/monks in= Haven), gypsies, werewolf tribes, vampire societies, hunters (witch/demon/v= ampire hunter society formed around Zirchev), secret Gnomish underworld, fey= world (Seelie/Unseelie), and (don't hiss) dark elves, Mentalist psion order= (in Ierendi), and missing Aquem and Teream magical orders from Alphatian ho= meworld. Oh, sorry for the seque, what do people think of half-orcs? other high-breed= s?= ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 17:07:26 -0300 From: Vinicius Rodrigues de Moraes Subject: Re: Half-Breeds and More Hey! Nice posts you have been writing. Concerning Savage Coast, I recommend you to check with Atila, who loves the region - and knows a lot about it. Cheers! ---------------------- Professor MSc Eng Vinicius de Moraes Curr=EDculo Lattes: http://lattes.cnpq.br/4749378347332215 LinkedIn: Vinicius Rodrigues de Moraes Skype: vinimagus MSN e Google Talk: vinimagus@gmail.com On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Darknerd wrote: > > As a few were talking of this I wanted to bring it up. I agree with the > > sentiments expressed, and I always thought of the half-elf (rule-wise) as= a > > seperate race. There is canon that says there is no such thing as well. = It > > was only when trying to graft the rule-mechanics of DnD2e, did they allow > > it, but then the books, even from DnD2e, and more so in DnD3e are not all > > that campaign world neutral. > > > > Now for the Mystara 3e/4e guide, I wanted to focus solely on the Known > > World, which are a limited set of powerful intriguing regions. > > > > The race (forgot name) that has similar statistics of a half-elf would be= a > > Savage Coast. I would like to later do a follow-up on Savage Coast 3E/4E= , > > as this will also have lupins, rakasta and other races, including this > > particular race. > > > > Other future ideas, would be a Gazetteer 3E/4E that would update all the > > Gazetteers. There could be Hollow World 3E/4E. > > > > I'll also have my own campaign non-canon hooks seperate from all this, fo= r > > my writeups on Calarii, Vyalia (Vishanii), and homegrown Dinarii (passion= ate > > duelist-predator pyschic-warriors), Linarii (logical-pasifist pscion/monk= s > > in Haven), gypsies, werewolf tribes, vampire societies, hunters > > (witch/demon/vampire hunter society formed around Zirchev), secret Gnomis= h > > underworld, fey world (Seelie/Unseelie), and (don't hiss) dark elves, > > Mentalist psion order (in Ierendi), and missing Aquem and Teream magical > > orders from Alphatian homeworld. > > > > Oh, sorry for the seque, what do people think of half-orcs? other > > high-breeds? > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 23:09:56 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Half-Breeds and More On 2 October 2011 20:39, Darknerd wrote: > > > > Oh, sorry for the seque, what do people think of half-orcs? other high-breeds? "Orcs of Thar" provides guidelines for half-breeds among the goblinoid races (which are very flexible, meaning a half-breed may have a mix of traits from both parent races), and Orcs and Humans are able to interbreed (Angus McClintock is a human-orc half-breed). Due to the CD&D rules, Half-Orcs are like Half-Elves -- they are rules-wise either Orcs or Humans, but may have a selection of minor traits from the other race (e.g., McClintock looks like a Orc, even though he uses Human rules, while the elf-blooded Human baker Gen in "Kingdom of Ierendi" has infravision). The Shadow Elves gazetteer also seems to imply that Elves can also interbreed with Goblinoids. If so, then Elves, Humans and Goblinoids must be genetically very close (same genus, and same number of chromosomes, since all hybrids are fertile). As mentioned before, Dwarves might be able to interbreed with Gnomes, which have been created from their own stock by Garal. Gnomes are likely just a subspecies of Dwarves, even if Erol's solution isn't used. G. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 14:19:38 -0700 From: Russel Holmes Subject: Re: MYSTARA-L Digest - 30 Sep 2011 to 1 Oct 2011 (#2011-82) Oh I agree to an extent... "artificial" limitations should be minimized to the greatest extent possible. However class restrictions to match campaign setting and flavour I am all about (i.e. Darokin Samurai?, Lawful Good Elf Paladin? Ogre Monk?). All in all, I loved 3.X for its OPTIONS On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 02:18:48 -0700, DarkNerd wrote: > Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 02:18:48 -0700 > > From: DarkNerd > > Subject: Dwarf Resistance & Class Restrictions > > > > On this topic, I propose having the dwarf gain sort of weak magic > > resistance= > > and give them a high arcane failure. > > > > Generally, we don't want to restrict through rules which class, race, > > ethnic= > > can be played as it is an artificial limitation. Nevertheless, there are > > t= > > endencies, so this would be encouraged. > > > > A Barbarian from Ethengar, Ost/Vest/Sodefjord, Heldann (pre Hattian), and > > Ar= > > truaghin would be plausible, but other combinations would need a good > > backst= > > ory.= > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 02:31:51 -0700 > > From: DarkNerd > > Subject: Foresters > > > > If you look at the boxed set DnD, you can easily see the Elf class is a > > comb= > > o of Fighter and Mage. The Forester was away to allow a human to > > multiple-c= > > lass. In DnD1e and DnD 2e, there were restriction one which races could > > mul= > > ti-class, so having a version for those systems makes sense as well. Under > > t= > > hat system, the human is permitted to multi class where it normally, > > > > Under DnD there is no notion of multi classing in the same way. You just > > pi= > > ck up classes and the tally is your class level. so the forester concept > > is= > > in a sense dead. Someone could make prestige class that adds something > > uniq= > > ue. =20 > > > > In DnD 4e, the closest thing is ting to muliticlasing is the hybrid class. > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 07:02:15 -0500 > > From: "Erol K. Bayburt" > > Subject: Re: Foresters > > > > There is more than one way to adapt things, and reasonable people can > > disagree about the various advantages and disadvantages of the different > > possible methods. > > > > I came at Mystara via the gazetteers and later the Rules Cyclopedia, > > rather than the boxed sets, and that no doubt affects how I see things. > > I like the idea of elves being bardish rather than a fighter/wizard > > multiclass because of the "merry elves" stereotype and the light-armor > > stereotype. (The last is affected by my preference to house-rule away > > the arcane spell failure problems for actual fighter/mage combos). It > > also seems to me that elves fit better as spontaneous casters (in 3.x > > terms) rather than as having spell books. So even if we go the > > fighter/mage multiclass route, I'd prefer elves to be fighter/sorcerers > > rather than fighter/wizards. > > > > I also am a bit wary of multiclassing in general. Sometimes it is the > > Right Answer, but I prefer to avoid it if there's a practical > > alternative. In addition, while I like the idea of NPC classes (and > > would like to see at least a few more), I'm really down on the idea of > > the 3.x Prestige classes. I want the base PC classes to be the > > "prestige" classes, the iconic classes, the best classes rather than > > "basic" classes to be discarded as the characters gain experience and > > the players gain splatbooks. > > > > But I do recognize that other views can be defended. > > > > Erol K. Bayburt > > ErolB1@aol.com > > > > On 10/1/2011 4:31 AM, DarkNerd wrote: >> > > If you look at the boxed set DnD, you can easily see the Elf class is >> > > a combo of Fighter and Mage. The Forester was away to allow a human >> > > to multiple-class. In DnD1e and DnD 2e, there were restriction one >> > > which races could multi-class, so having a version for those systems >> > > makes sense as well. Under that system, the human is permitted to >> > > multi class where it normally, >> > > >> > > Under DnD there is no notion of multi classing in the same way. You >> > > just pick up classes and the tally is your class level. so the >> > > forester concept is in a sense dead. Someone could make prestige >> > > class that adds something unique. >> > > >> > > In DnD 4e, the closest thing is ting to muliticlasing is the hybrid >> > > class. >> > > >> > > ******************************************************************** >> > > The Other Worlds Homepage: >> > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: >> > > http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to >> > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the >> > > message. > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 13:50:13 -0700 > > From: Russel Holmes > > Subject: Classes > > > > The bard has always been my favorite class to play, but keeping with the > > basic/expert/companion model, it should probably be plunked with wherever > > the Paladin/Avenger end up. Also, with some tweaking it could easily > > provide > > a vehicle for the "Merchant/Merchant-Prince" classes from the > > Darokin/Minrothad Gazetters. A variant "marshal" bard may work for the > > "Rake" class from DotE. They can also make good prestige classes if you use > > Unearthed Arcana (UA). > > > > As far as prestige "core" classes go, this can also work to better reflect > > OD&D paladins/avengers, particularly with the "alternate" paladin options > > in > > UA. > > > > UA also has great options for barbarians and have used them frequently, > > especially for less advanced cultures. > > > > I've always hated the forester class as it was presented in OD&D... and > > used > > to tell my players that if they wanted to play an elf... to make an elf. > > for > > this 3e/4e thing, I would just call a ranger a forester and be done with it > > (companion/expert rules.) > > > > I was never keen on the races as classes and since switching to subsequent > > editions of D&D have never looked back. If you are looking for a > > warrior/mage I agree that the Duskblade might be the best way to go, > > potentially even making that the elf's favored class. I would be tempted to > > expand their spell selection in order to make them more versatile. > > > > I have always been intrigued by psionics... but not having a OD&D > > equivalent, it's always been difficult to find a proper home for. I toyed > > with the prospect in a few campaigns making psionics and magic exclusive to > > each other (i.e. detect magic can't detect psionics) and treating it like > > witchcraft given arcane/divine magics dominance in Mystara. IDK... maybe > > use > > it for the shadow-elves and all their radiation sickness? All in all, I > > think Mystara works just fine without including psionics. > > > > I like Dave's approach to half-elves.... I never liked them as a "core" > > race > > particularly as 3e started talking about communities of half-breeds (i.e. > > half-elves/half-orcs). Anytime a player talked about choosing a half-breed > > race, I explain that their character might very well be one of the only > > ones > > they meet. NBD mechanic-wise but definitely a factor into the campaign > > narrative. > > > > I also like Erol's thought on gnomes and dwarves being a single species, as > > in every country they are mentioned together, even though I also agree with > > Giampaolo as for why Dwarves can't cast arcane magic. > > > > Another class that I think has merit would the Artificer from Eberon.. > > particularly for the before-mentioned Gnomes. A couple of tweaks for this > > class and it would be a great implementation of the "fantasy physics" skill > > from OD&D. This could also work really well Alphatia's magic production. > > > > I've used the DR vitality/wound point rules for a few years and have always > > had a lot of success with them. I also successfully included the damage > > increase as BaB increase too. > > > > All in all the ideas on this topic are great and look forward to reading > > more as it comes along. I'm still vehemently opposed to 4e but I do > > understand the desire to "modernize". > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 30 Sep 2011 to 1 Oct 2011 (#2011-82) > > ************************************************************** > > -- The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised. -- George F. Will ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 22:36:22 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Half-Breeds and More The Darokin Gaz also has a section describing the Half-Orcs of that country= .=0A=0A-Havard=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFra: Giampaolo= Agosta =0ATil: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=0ASendt:= S=F8ndag, 2. oktober 2011 23.09=0AEmne: Re: [MYSTARA] Half-Breeds and More= =0A=0AOn 2 October 2011 20:39, Darknerd wrote:=0A>= =0A> Oh, sorry for the seque, what do people think of half-orcs? other high= -breeds?=0A=0A"Orcs of Thar" provides guidelines for half-breeds among the = goblinoid=0Araces (which are very flexible, meaning a half-breed may have a= mix of=0Atraits from both parent races), and Orcs and Humans are able to= =0Ainterbreed (Angus McClintock is a human-orc half-breed). Due to the=0ACD= &D rules, Half-Orcs are like Half-Elves -- they are rules-wise=0Aeither Orc= s or Humans, but may have a selection of minor traits from=0Athe other race= (e.g., McClintock looks like a Orc, even though he uses=0AHuman rules, whi= le the elf-blooded Human baker Gen in "Kingdom of=0AIerendi" has infravisio= n).=0AThe Shadow Elves gazetteer also seems to imply that Elves can also=0A= interbreed with Goblinoids.=0AIf so, then Elves, Humans and Goblinoids must= be genetically very=0Aclose (same genus, and same number of chromosomes, s= ince all hybrids=0Aare fertile).=0A=0AAs mentioned before, Dwarves might be= able to interbreed with Gnomes,=0Awhich have been created from their own s= tock by Garal.=0AGnomes are likely just a subspecies of Dwarves, even if Er= ol's=0Asolution isn't used.=0A=0AG.=0A=0A**********************************= **********************************=0AThe Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.= wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=0AThe Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.= com=0ATo unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=0Awith UNSU= B MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Oct 2011 to 2 Oct 2011 (#2011-83) *************************************************************