From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #1 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, 28 September 1995 Volume 01 : Number 001 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orion Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 02:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] Leroy Van Camp III | "Another slave and a victim of fate, | another lesson in hate." van891@uidaho.edu | Ministry ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 04:07:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [none] Orion | When you shoot at some body over no provocation, owner-mystara-l@io.com | I mean when you.. when uh... when uh... when I - -----------------------/ didn't say nothin' to the man, I didn't pull out no gun and tell him I'm going to do this to him, shoot him, and never had worked with the man before, and he just shoots at me, that's a pretty radical group right there, if you ask me. - F.L.A ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 04:35:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mystara] Re: your mail On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, Orion wrote: > > Orion | When you shoot at some body over no provocation, > owner-mystara-l@io.com | I mean when you.. when uh... when uh... when I > -----------------------/ didn't say nothin' to the man, I didn't pull out > no gun and tell him I'm going to do this to him, shoot him, and never had > worked with the man before, and he just shoots at me, that's a pretty > radical group right there, if you ask me. - F.L.A > ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:48:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mystara] Welcome to the list Mystara Fans, First off, welcome to the list. I appreciate eveyone giving this a chance. Hopefully we can all make it worth it. This post is just to get a few things in order... 1) There are a few people on the list who did not subscribe themselves. Their names were given to me by someone who had made a previous attempt at a Mystara list, so I subscribed them. If you are one of these people, and you do not wish to be on the list, just send email to majordomo@io.com with the following in the main text: unsubscribe mystara-l If you have any problems, e-mail me at owner-mystara-l@io.com, and I'll unsub you manually. 2) The list is active, so if you have anything to say, go ahead and say it. 3) I will be posting a group mission statement, and a list of potential projects by the end of the week. Enjoy. Orion | When you shoot at some body over no provocation, owner-mystara-l@io.com | I mean when you.. when uh... when uh... when I - -----------------------/ didn't say nothin' to the man, I didn't pull out no gun and tell him I'm going to do this to him, shoot him, and never had worked with the man before, and he just shoots at me, that's a pretty radical group right there, if you ask me. - F.L.A ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 18:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Welcome to the list Salutations! To all of those involved in the effort of setting this up, thanks, and I hope everything works out to all of our expectations. Why not start with some introductory bios? Let me see if I can get the ball rolling. I'm a 26 year old who's been refereeing a Mystara campaign since before it was called Mystara (about 8 or 9 years now). I'm one of the only members of our group that still goes to school, but I'll be working next year. The others are involved in business and computer enterprises. As to our campaign, it's focussed around GAZ 3. We spent a year or two just feeling out the terrain, then launched into module X 11 (a good tie-in incidentally). From there it was the first three Blackmoor modules, then an extended campaign in Karameikos. A trip down the Bruce Heard version of the Savage Coast followed and the party was solidly Companion-level adventurers. Now we are currently back in Blackmoor for DA4 before returning to Glantri for the Grand Finale. Throughout there have been solo, pair, and small-group adventures pulling in resource material from across Mystara and within the Hollow World. The result is a central plot line decked out with numerous interweaving side-plots and adventures. It's all coming together over the next year or so. They are currently gaming in A.C. 1007/8 and events from Wrath of the Immortals have added a tertiary level. Come to think of it, I could probably publish a Ph.D. thesis on the subject of Mystara. Let's hear from the rest of you! Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:51:46 AST Subject: [Mystara] Biography > To all of those involved in the effort of setting this up, > thanks, and I hope everything works out to all of our expectations. Why > not start with some introductory bios? Okay, sure. I'm 20 years old. I've been playing for about 10 years now. My focused campaigns were AD&D- Bloodstone (adapted to 2nd edition), Warhammer FRP (which lasted two years and 3/4 of the published campaign), White Wolf/Storyteller (which I co-created and am still playing), and my Mystara/Mystarra chronicle. I am highly critical of TSR's decision to (first) translate Mystara into an AD&D setting and (second) when that failed, to drop support from it entirely. My campaigns have always been more plot and character driven than goal-oriented, and while I found Mystara the perfect setting, I felt that the main engine for the world (OD&D) was both open enough for my purposes and too confined to combat-centered rules. Therefore, I chose to splice OD&D's strengths with another of my favourite systems, Ars Magica. The mixture gives both a great balance of class/level abilities, now partnered with a very flexible skill system. The current party as it stands are low- companion, high-expert (14-18) levels; a dryad, a magic-user (who wields swords and bows, specialized in necromancy), a dwarf (a power hitter, a close combat nightmare), a harper (self-made class, based on the Bard's Tale more than AD&D), a rogue-ish elf (using the AM skill system), a very Tolkien-like elf (ingenue), and a Dark Ages/Early Christian priest of Ixion (almost like a paladin). I think the greatest strength of Mystara comes from the cultures and rich background of the world. Unlike most FRP worlds, it doesn't fall back on a magic-heavy crutch to support its problems. In fact, while it has been 'sold' as a high magic world, I find that 90% of it can be de-powered almost to a magic poor or magic-null world, thus enhancing the feel or mystique of the obviously magic-rich cultures (Alfheim, Alphatia, Glantri). What about the others? Matthew Hickey (aka Nightshade) (Yes, I'm _that_ one from the rec.* group) Email: GNKGP@StThomasU.Ca ------------------------------ From: Dorin Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Introductions Hi gang, I'm a 23-year-old MIS student at McGill University, up here in Canada. Although I haven't yet DMed a Mystara campaign, I thought the material in the Kingdom of Karameikos boxed set was interesting enough to warrant the purchase of the latest Poor Wizard's Almanac (which is about as far as I can stretch my gaming budget). I like the variety of the cultures described in the source material I have, and my main reason for joining this list is to pick up any odds and ends which other DMs have developed, from adventures to NPCs to magical items to beasties to spells. Looking forward to this list! - Dorin dorin@cs.mcgill.ca ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:57:41 AST Subject: [Mystara] Minor clarification. I hope no one believes that when I was speaking about WW/Storyteller that I co-created the _system_, just my group's chronicle. Matthew (Nightshade) Email: GNKGP@StThomasU.Ca ------------------------------ From: rogers@bbs.tde.com Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 19:24:19 -0700 Subject: [Mystara] [MYSTARA] WELCOME U9> From: "D.J. Sahlas" U9> Let's hear from the rest of you! I'm a 28-year-old longtime gamer, and I just started playing in Mystara for the first time. I took over a message-based game that is utilizing X13: Crown of Ancient Glory, and I've been digging up information on Vestland and the northern countries around it. If anyone here has run campaigns through the area, I'd love to hear about it. The game is taking place in 975 AC, which as I understand it was the timeframe for the original Expert Set and the X series of modules. One thing I'm curious about: Have the new Mystara products dealt with Vestland or the northern reaches at all? Rogers Cadenhead ... Internet: rogers@pobox.com ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:52:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mystara] MML Projects The following is a list of projects that the Mailing List might work on together. It's certainly not complete, nor are all the ideas of equal value. Feedback is both welcome and desired. If we can gather enough material, we can start putting out netbooks. The Mystara FAQ This shouldn't hard (hopefully). Whenever someone comes up with a good question, we'll add it. I will probably start work on this before too long. Mystara Index The Known World is spread through out a large number of supplements, making it difficult at times to know if you have all available information at hand. A good solution would be complete indexes of every Mystara product out their. Now, if this was done by one person, it would be a monumental task. But, if each person on the list took one product and indexed it, the work load would be spread out. These individual indices could then be compiled. Alternate Ierendis Am I the only one who though the Ierendi Gazetteer to be a cruel, and unfunny, joke? If I am, then this project has no merit. But if others out there have come up with their own versions of this country, it would be nice to see them in print. I will be submitting mine to the list, eventually. New Gazetteers Wouldn't it be nice to have Gazetteers on some of the countries that T$R gave us little detail of? The two that spring to mind are Wendar and Heldann Freeholds. Writing complete Gazetteers would be no small feat, but it could be a group project. Mystaraspace I don't know how many people on the list are also Spelljammer fans (I recognized two names from the SJML), but for those that are, working up a crystal sphere for Mystara would be cool. It would take a bit of explanation on how things like the Alphatian migration, or the crashed ship in Blackmoor, tied in. Tourist Guides For those not familiar with them, T$R puts out supplements for Forgotten Realms called the Volo's Guide series. Each is a book dedicated to the sites and locales in a certain city or area of the Realms, such as taverns, inns, stores, ruins, and castles. I feel such information for Mystara would be of great help to a GM. It wouldn't be that hard, either. Each person could claim one city or town and detail such establishments. They could then be grouped according to country, giving the Tourist's Guide to Karameikos, and so on. Rumors and Adventure Seeds A simple project that could be ongoing, this would just be a compilation of adventure ideas that people post. This would be especially easy for those who are currently running a campaign in Mystara. They could just post the occasional plot summary. New Races Any one who has perused the pages of the Creature Catalog or the Mystara Monstrous Compendium can probably find at least a dozen races that would be suitable for PC's. For example, the rakasta is a standard race in my own campaigns (although different than the way they are presented in the Princess Ark series.) Whether in AD&D or D&D format, such new races would be nice. Specialty Priests of the Immortals For those who play in Mystara using AD&D, having the information on specialtiy priests would be damn handy. I have made up a few myself, and will submit them. Standard Stuff (Spells, Kits, Monsters, Magic Items, NPC's, etc) Such things are always welcome on the list. Whether they were put into the netbook would depend on how closely tied to Mystara they were. Orion | When you shoot at some body over no provocation, owner-mystara-l@io.com | I mean when you.. when uh... when uh... when I - -----------------------/ didn't say nothin' to the man, I didn't pull out no gun and tell him I'm going to do this to him, shoot him, and never had worked with the man before, and he just shoots at me, that's a pretty radical group right there, if you ask me. - F.L.A ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:46:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] [MYSTARA] WELCOME On Mon, 18 Sep 1995 rogers@bbs.tde.com wrote: > One thing I'm curious about: Have the new Mystara products > dealt with Vestland or the northern reaches at all? No, none of the new AD&D Mystara stuff deals with the Norhtern Reaches. If you don't already have it, look for GAZ7 The Northern Reaches. Although out of print, you can probably find it used at a nearby store, or in r.g.f.marketplace. There's nothing in there that can't be converted to AD&D. The rune magic system is rather cool. Also, at the rate T$R is going, it is unlikly that a Northern Reaches boxed set will ever be released. Orion | When you shoot at some body over no provocation, owner-mystara-l@io.com | I mean when you.. when uh... when uh... when I - -----------------------/ didn't say nothin' to the man, I didn't pull out no gun and tell him I'm going to do this to him, shoot him, and never had worked with the man before, and he just shoots at me, that's a pretty radical group right there, if you ask me. - F.L.A ------------------------------ From: Jason MURPHY Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:11:55 +0000 (CUT) Subject: [Mystara] Hello Hi there people. Here that bio. I am 23 years old and have been playing od&d for about 12 years. I picked up the Gaz series pretty much as soon as they came out and must say that they are the best thing to come out of TSR in the way of campaign material. I am pleased to see that this group will also be discussing od&d topics as this is my fave system. I am currently taking part in a campaign set around the Thyatis empire. All the characters are basically nobles within the empire and have just managed to avoid a major conflict with Al;phatia. As to that Ierendi topic, I too was disapointed with the gaz and would like to participate in discussion the problem as well as the creation of new gaz material, if T$R doesn't sue my ass. Anyway thanx to the list owner for setting this up, and i look forward to hearing from all of you. Jason Murphy ------------------------------ From: Sven Munther Date: Tue, 19 Sep 95 09:38:00 MET Subject: RE: [Mystara] Biography (and request for modules) > Why not start with some introductory bios? Hi - I am Sven I have been playing AD&D 2ed in the Mystara for about 3-4 years. Before that, I was a Traveller addict for more than 10 years. My interest in Mystara is the Traveller-like campaigns I can run there. I also like some of the more crazy settings like Ierendi (don't change it guys) and the floating city of pc2. My most used Mystara items are 'Tales of the wee folk', 'Glantry' (both editions), Rockhome, and Alfheim. Hollow World and Wrath of the Immortals deserves mentioning too. I will also recommend The Complete Priests Handbook (yes, I know everybody hates it) for quick 2ed priest powers granted by the Glantri immortals. I run frequent cross-overs to Ravenloft, in my campaign a realm created by Thanatos (it is his stile). Many of the realms there could easily have been taken from Glantry, Nithia, etc. The official modules I have turned upon my players includes the Blood Breathen Trilogy (highly recommended) and Wrath (which I am running now - one of my players is going to be the last king of Alfheim). I am looking for good modules or module recommendations. Having a full time job and three kids I have little time for playing preparations. Please list your favorite modules Sven ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:54:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Biography On Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Nightshade wrote: > > To all of those involved in the effort of setting this up, > > thanks, and I hope everything works out to all of our expectations. Why > > not start with some introductory bios? I am an 18 year old Freshman at Pitt University. I started playing RPGs, well not really role-playing just sort of hacking-n-slahing when I was around 6 or 7. About four years ago, after a few years off, I got back into RPGs more creatively and more for fun than for muchkin-like ideas. I play basically OD&D(Both Mystara and Hollow World) and the Palladium Fantasy RPG. My current campaigns are all Mystara-based: a cleric-based group currently stationed in Darokin, including an insane halfling kicked out of the Five Shires a dwarf seeking immortality with a few 1st to 3rd level henchmen, currently at the start of his quest and mostly in Rockhome. He has travelled through the Sea Kingdoms(PC3), Glantri and Ylaurum alot during his quest and his home(which he has little time to take care of, but is stable) in Norworld, where he owns a duchy. A group of my own PCs that I am test-running through the Hollow World. Luckily, I have two mages and so I have been experimenting with alot of new deception-type spells, as offense and charm seem to be lacking in that setting. > I think the greatest strength of Mystara comes from the cultures > and rich background of the world. Unlike most FRP worlds, it doesn't > fall back on a magic-heavy crutch to support its problems. In fact, > while it has been 'sold' as a high magic world, I find that 90% of > it can be de-powered almost to a magic poor or magic-null world, > thus enhancing the feel or mystique of the obviously magic-rich > cultures (Alfheim, Alphatia, Glantri). Especially the Hollow World, which is very anti-magic to begin with. And the neat spell of Preservation lets you have all those racial restrictions and bonuses that help discourage munchkins. It's a good thing we came along when we did. I'd hate to have to tell Tarl and Shal that their son was beaten in battle by a rosebush - Daile At least they wouldn't have to send flowers to the funeral - Listle ------------------------------ From: "Thomas J. Mahaney II" Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:27:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Biography Hello, My name is Tom Mahaney and I am staff at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. I have been playing D&D (or OD&D now) for about 15 years although I haven't had much opportunity to play in the past few years. As a DM, I've always run my campaigns in Mystara. I have several ongoing campaigns in a number of Mystaran locations. One of my oldest parties revolves around an outcast Alfheim elf who, after a successful adventuring career, married Duke Stephan's daughter and settled a barony south of the Dymrak forest in Karameikos. Besides battling the racial prejudices of his Thyatian/Traladaran subjects, the Baron is also dealing with Goblin problems to the north, a rogue vampire, and probems back home (in Alfheim) involving his family and Shadow Elves. To top it off, his best friend and former adventuring partner, a Gnome Wicca from near Threshold, has decided to set up a local chapter of the Kingdom of Thieves within the Baron's lands. Another campaign I am running takes place in the far reaches of the Savage Coast (now the Red Steel Campaign Setting). Currently, the party is playing hide & seek with a lich in the Lost City of Risilvar. A third party is battling Frost Giants in the Northern Reaches of Vestland, while a fourth has hired on as mercenaries, helping the Darokin armies fight the mysterious "Master" of the desert nomads. As you can tell, I love the depth and breadth of the various Mystaran settings. Its an incredibly diverse world and, to be honest, I like the large amount of magic in the world (although, I may change this in my campaigns if I let Rad get his way). One thing I particularly like about Mystara is the large number of Immortals. I have been compiling a list and would like to post it. Would people be interested? Should I post it in a message here or should I upload it to some designated ftp site? Tom Mahaney ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:55:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Biography On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Thomas J. Mahaney II wrote: > One thing I particularly like about Mystara is the large number > of Immortals. I have been compiling a list and would like to post it. Would > people be interested? Should I post it in a message here or should I upload it > to some designated ftp site? Except for ftp.mpgn.com, we have no designated site, so feel free to post it to the list. Orion | When you shoot at some body over no provocation, owner-mystara-l@io.com | I mean when you.. when uh... when uh... when I - -----------------------/ didn't say nothin' to the man, I didn't pull out no gun and tell him I'm going to do this to him, shoot him, and never had worked with the man before, and he just shoots at me, that's a pretty radical group right there, if you ask me. - F.L.A ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:03:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mystara] A forwarded message This came to me with an error, so I am forwarding it, and trying to=20 fix the error. Welcome Mystarans, =09I'm John Knotts--a 29 year old member of the Air Force who has been=20 involed in fantasy roleplaying since high school. I've played=20 everything--personally, I'm not very happy with all of AD&D's rules, but I'= ve=20 found the Skills and Powers book very interesting. On Mystara--I've taken = to=20 this system like a duck to water! Long ago, I used to collect the Gaz=20 accessories, but gave up soon after I started. I bought the Karameikos box= ed=20 set (new) and suddenly doors started opening. =09Now, I've done a great deal of research and still not complete. I'm=20 looking for Gaz 3 (The Principalities of Galantri), 5 (The Elves of Alfheim= ),=20 9 (The Minrothad Guilds), and TM1 (The Western Countries). I also plan on= =20 purchasing the newest two Mystara products for my birthday (Oct 11). I'm= =20 interested in everything there is on the Known World. I'm not interested i= n=20 Hollow World or Spelljammer just yet! I have the PC series, the rest of th= e=20 Gaz, the Poor Wizard's books, Heroes boxed set, Dawn of the Emporers, and e= ven=20 a copy of every Voyage of the Princess Article from the Dragon. I'm=20 researching every shread of history available to build effective resources= =20 which TSR just won't provide! I also have both the the books out in print = on=20 Mystara. If anyone has any questions for me I'd be glad to research the=20 answer for them. =09Now, on to my newest project--The Immortals. Below is a compiled (to=20 date) list of what several books have to say about the known Immortals of t= he=20 Known World. I plan to develop specialty priest, yet I need help and=20 guidence, both in fleshing out these Immortals and defining their abilities= =20 and what they convey to priests! HELP! Below is my list--enjoy and write! THE NATURE OF IMMORTALS =09This is a compilation of how Mystaran Immortals are viewed by the=20 various cultures. Please assist me by adding any additional views you have= =20 found. Also, I would like to develop specialty priests for each of these= =20 Immortals. ALPHAKS =09Thyatian: This Patron of Pure Evil causes death, destruction, and=20 misery; his sect is illegal within the Empire, but it is still popular; it= =20 appeals to chaotics who hate Alphatia, because it is part of the dogma of t= he=20 Alphaks that Alphatia Must Be Destroyed. Sphere of Death; Chaotic. =09Alphatian: Though he is considered to be the destroyer of the First=20 Empire and hated throughout Alphatia, Alphaks is followed by some chaotic= =20 clerics and magi-users of evil disposition. His presence has only been fel= t=20 in the last couple of centuries; before that, it is assumed he was followin= g=20 the path to Immortality and then, perhaps, having a difficult time finding = the=20 descendants of the original Alphatians. His followers intend to help destr= oy=20 the Alphatian Empire; for this reason, this sect is outlawed, and ruthlessl= y=20 purged by the Empire whenever encountered. Alphaks I was emperor and led t= o=20 the destruction of the Alphatian home world Alphatia. He led the Followers= of=20 Flame against the Followers of Air during the Year of Scouring. Those he l= ed,=20 banished him when they lost the war to the Air Wizards. =09Karameikos: An evil Immortal devoted to the destruction of Alphatia,=20 Alphaks continues to meddle with the sinking of that island continent. He = is=20 known as the Roaring Fiend, and his symbol is a horned skull against a=20 phoenix-like flame. ASTERIUS =09Thyatian: He is the Patron of Trade and Commerce, and merchants pray=20 to him. He is also the Patron of Thievery, and so, many of the devotions l= eft=20 in his temples are contributed by thieves. Sphere of Thought; Neutral. =09Karameikos: The Patron of Trade, Merchants, and Thieves, Asterius is=20 naturally venerated by caravan travelers, merchants, and robbers. His symb= ol=20 is the moon. DIULANNA =09Thyatian: Patroness of Will. This Hinterlands Immortal, whom the=20 Thyatians are now eagerly studying, represents the belief that with enough= =20 willpower and determination, one can achieve anything. It is she who grant= s=20 victory (or at least honor) to the hero who throws himself against impossib= le=20 odds. Sphere of Thought; Neutral. HALAV =09Thyatian: Patron of Warfare and Weapon Making. he was a hero to the=20 native Karameikans of the ancient past; their king, he taught his people to= =20 forge bronze, then led them against invading beast-men. To the Thyatians, = he=20 exemplifies the teacher, who is also a warrior. Sphere of Thought; Lawful. =09Karameikos: An Immortal of warfare, Halav is one of three major=20 Immortals venerated by the Traladaran people. He and the others (Petra, th= e=20 warrior priest; and Zirchez of the forest) have priests dedicated to their= =20 name in both of Karameikos major churches. ILSUNDAL =09Thyatian: Patron of Elvenkind. His ways are followed by the elves in= =20 Thyatis, and by their friends, the Foresters, and by a few humans who have = an=20 affinity for the ways of the forest and nature. Sphere of Energy; Neutral. =09Karameikos: The Patron of Elves, Ilsundal=92s name is recognized among= =20 the various eleven peoples. Other elven heroes and heroines have become=20 Immortals for smaller followings. MEALINDEN =09Thyatian: Ilsundal is guarded and aided by Mealiden, a later elf-king= =20 who is said to have achieved Immortality. KAGYAR =09Thyatian: Patron of Artisans, Patron of Dwarvenkind. His ways are=20 followed by the dwarves in Thyatis, and by many races who have artistic=20 learning abilities. Sphere of Matter; Lawful. =09Karameikos: The Patron of Dwarvish Peoples and believed to be their=20 creator, Kagyar is the archtypical craftsman venerated by the dwarves. KOROTIKU THE SPIDER =09Thyatian: This Immortal of the Pearl Islands represents the clever=20 Fighter and Rake; he is often called the Trickster. Sphere of Thought;=20 Chaotic. KORYIS =09Thyatian: The Patron of Peace and Prosperity, introduced into the=20 Empire by citizens of Alphatian descent. Popular here primarily with=20 merchants; real warriors sneer at him. Most Ochalean clerics are followers= of=20 Koryis. Sphere of Thought; Lawful. =09Alphatian: The Patron of Peace and Prosperity is followed by a=20 certain percentage of Alphatia=92s mechantile Gentry. Alphatian wizards=20 privately consider him to be useless--they perceive that they make their ow= n=20 peace and prosperity through proper studies of magic. Fighters, too, ignor= e=20 him, disliking his aspect as a patron of peaceability. =09Karameikos: A Patron of Peace and Prosperity, Koryis=92 following is=20 strongest in those regions where such attributes are valued, such as in=20 Darokin. His symbol is a hand, held palm forward. ODIN =09Thyatian: The Northern Realms Immortal is followed by many Thyatians=20 of Oceansend descent and by others who admire the wedding of welfare with= =20 wisdom. Sphere of Matter; Lawful. =09Karameikos: A patron bearing the name of an extra-dimensional god,=20 Odin is accused by those who know as being that god in Immortal guise, and = by=20 others as being an impostor taking on the mantle of a deity. Regardless, h= is=20 worship is strongest in the savage northern reaches, along with others of t= he=20 Norse pantheon, including Thor, Frey, Freyja, and (more secretly) Loki, and= =20 Hel. PROTIUS, THE OLD MAN OF THE SEA =09Thyatian: This Immortal represents the sea in all its=20 aspects--treacherous, beautiful, bountiful, and terrifying. Many ship=20 captains are clerics of Protius. He is well-liked in Ylaruam as the Patron= of=20 Al-Kalin. Sphere of Time; Neutral. =09Karameikos: An old Thyatian Immortal, Protius takes command of the=20 ocean and is known as the Old Man of the Sea. His symbol is the trident. TARASTIA =09Thyatian: She is the Patroness of Justice and Revenge. Sphere of=20 Energy; Lawful. Lucinius Trenzantenbium=92s half-sister, Empress Valentia. =09Karameikos: The Patroness of Justice and Revenge, Tarastia=92s cult is= =20 strong among Thyatians, particularly those looking for justice and revenge. THANATOS =09Thyatian: This Death-loving Immortal hates all life. His followers=20 are underground sects of clerics who would betray their race for personal= =20 power. Sphere of Death; Chaotic. =09Karameikos: An Immortal of Entropy and Death, Thanatos is shunned=20 throughout the Known World, but he is venerated in the urban hives of Thyat= is. THOR =09Thyatian: Like Odin, this is an Immortal worshipped by Thyatians with= =20 Northern Realms ancestry. Thor is less interested in wisdom and more in th= e=20 warrior=92s code than Odin; hence, he is more popular in Thyatis. Sphere o= f=20 matter; Chaotic. VANYA =09Thyatian: Most popular Immortal to the Thyatians, Vanya was supposed=20 to have been a Thyatian warrior-woman in the distant past. She is now the= =20 Patroness of War and Conquerors. Sphere of Time; Neutral. =09Karameikos: An Immortal Patroness of War and Conquest, Vanya=92s best= =20 (and most savage) servants are the Heldannic Knights, who have oppressed=20 entire peoples in her name. EIRYNDUL =09Alphatian: This elvish Immortal led the Shiye clan to Alphatia around= =20 year 200 (BC 800, Thyatian calendar), and is the Patron of Elvenkind in=20 Alphatia. (The Shiye also know of Ilsundal, the first Immortal Elvish Patr= on,=20 but do not worship him) Sphere of Time; Neutral. RATHANOS =09Alphatian: This Immortal is worshipped by some Thothians; he is the=20 Patron of Thothia and of Fire Wizards, and so is studied by the rogue=20 descendants of the Followers of Flame. Sphere of Energy; Chaotic. ZIRCHEV =09Alphatian: This Immortal concerns himself with animals and monsters=20 of all kinds; he promotes the study of beasts, of observance of nature, and= =20 the preservation of woods and animal-kind. He is studied and worshipped by= =20 some elves and by many clerics, magic-users, shamans, and wiccas of the Nat= ion=20 of Limn and the City of Trollhattan. Sphere of Energy; Neutral. AL-KALIM =09Karameikos: The Patron of the Eternal Truth and the Desert Garden,=20 Al-Kalim has only recently attained his Immortality. He is closely connect= ed=20 with the people of Ylaruam, from whom he arose. He penned the Nahmeh, tome= by=20 which the Ylari devote their lives. ATRUAGHIN =09Karameikos: An Immortal who has given his name to the people of the=20 Atruaghin Plateau, Atruaghin is in turn served by other, lesser Immortals. BOZDOGAN =09Karameikos: An Immortal of Lies, Half-truths, Deception, and=20 Politicians, Bozdogan enjoys being the object of far-off Hule=92s main fait= h,=20 which has raised treachery to an art form. GREAT ONE =09Karameikos: Immortal of All The Dragons, Great One is served by three= =20 other Immortal Dragons: Diamond (lawful dragons), Pearl (chaotic dragons),= =20 and Opal (neutral dragons). IXION =09Karameikos: An Immortal of the Sun, Ixion=92s symbol is the flaming=20 wheel. he is seen as a force in opposition to evil such as Alphaks. MINROTH =09Karameikos: Minroth is another Patron of Prosperity, but in this=20 case, of the Minrothad Guilds, which venerate his name. RAD =09Karameikos: While the Galantrians dislike religion in general and=20 priests in particular, they do have an embodiment of the source of magic,= =20 known as the Radiance. Rad was the personification and control of this for= ce,=20 but has not been heard from since the recent War of the Immortals, which=20 caused the disappearance of Alphatia and the appearance of the Great Crater= . =20 His whereabouts are unknown. RAFIEL =09Karameikos: Patron of the Shadow Elves, little is known of Rafiel=20 save that the Shadow Elves are his chosen people, and his symbol is a book= =20 with a star on the cover. TURBAK =09Karameikos: The Patron of Law and Order among the Ethengarian=20 peoples, Turbak is a harsh, but fair Immortal. Other Ethengarian Immortals= =20 are Yamuga (Patroness of Prosperity and Renewal) and Cretia (Patroness of= =20 Jokes and Punishment). VALERIAS =09Karameikos: The Patroness of Romance and Passion, Valerias=92 name is= =20 evoked by Thyatians and others in the name of love. Her symbol is the thor= ny=20 rose, symbolizing beauty and its threat. FAUNUS (INUUS or LUPERCUS) =09Wee Folk: Patron of Herding, Hunting, and Husbandry (especially sheep= =20 herding), and the possible inventor of poetry. Those who honor him, seekin= g=20 his assistance, celebrate two winter festivals, the Faunalia, in his honor.= =20 On these days, the country folk sacrifice goats, wine, and milk, and hold= =20 various games. Faunus may send his followers prophecies by the sounds of t= he=20 forest or by dreams. TALLIVARI, THE ROOT MAKER =09Aquatic Elves: In Immortal of the Aquarendi. TERRA =09Special: Senior Patron of the Natural World. Fond of dragons and=20 sponsored the only dragon Immortal, The Great One. Those of this order rev= ere=20 open mindedness above others and although primarily elvish, other races do= =20 belong. THE CAUSE =09Special: There are clerical orders which serve a cause rather than=20 one of the Immortals. Yet, Immortals sympathetic to their cause will often= =20 grant them powers. ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 14:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mystara] A new creature for D&D Here is a creature I created for a Mystara campaign I ran a while back. The PC's, who started at first level, began to rise into the ranks of the movers and shakers in the world. Although these creatures are quite deadly, I designed them to be more than a combat encounter. The Skellar they met became a recurring NPC, one that they came to regret associating with. They tend to be subtle. Skellar Armour Class -8 Hit Dice 22+20******* (120 minimum) Move 180' (60') Flying 360' (120') Attacks 2 claws, 1 tail + special Damage 3d6+8 / 3d6+8 / 3d6+6 No. Appearing 1 (1) Save As Fighter 25 Morale Special Treasure Type Special Intelligence 18 Alignment Chaotic (Neutral/Evil) XP Value 18,500 Originating from another planet, the Skellar are completely alien creatures whose motives and goals are unknown. They are humanoid, usually standing seven feet tall, but often move on all fours to confuse others about their size. Their skin is dark grey and looks like a suit of tight fitting full plate made of leather, a sort of semi-chitinous exoskelton. They have no face; only a smooth egg-like surface. They do have a mouth, though, one filled with wicked metallic teeth. Protruding from the back of it's head are pencil thick hair-like stalks that drape down two feet over it's shoulders. Emerging from it's back is a huge set of bat wings that span up to twenty five feet. They also have a long, bony tail that ends in a sharp chitinous blade. Despite it's lack of eyes or ears, the Skellar has excellent senses. Unless sleeping, which it only does for 8 hours per month, it can never be surprised. It can always detect invisible creatures or illusions and can see into both the Ethereal and Astral planes. In combat, the Skellar use all their abilities to their best. They use their claws as a Master (Weapon Mastery), doing the indicated damage above, and gaining all the to hit bonuses. If they succeed in hitting one opponent with both claws, they will pull them in and bite them with their immensely powerful jaws, which they can unhinge, like a snake, automatically hitting and doing 3d6, plus the targets Armour Class. The bite of a Skellar is poisonous; those bitten must save versus poison at - -2 or die. If they succeed, they still take an additional 20 points of damage. A Skellar's tail is used less accurately than their claws; they hit at the normal chance for their Hit Dice. Any creature of less than 4 HD who comes within 20 feet of a Skellar will flee in terror for 1-10 rounds. All others must save versus Paralysis or also flee. All Skellar are accomplished spell casters. They cast spells as a 14th level Magic-User. Their spells should be carefully chosen. They usually have a number of spells per level in their books equal to twice the number of spells they can cast per day. Because of their alien origin, the Skellar have a personal Anti-Magic of 35%. In addition, they are immune to electricity damage and take half damage from fire and cold attacks and they can only be hit by weapons of +2 or better. In addition to all this, a Skellar can use each of the following abilities as often as desired, once per round, in place of any other action, as a 16th level caster: Hold Person, Know Alignment, Cause Disease (reverse of Cure Disease), Dispel Magic, Charm Person, Phantasmal Force, Teleport any Object, Death Spell. Despite their alignment, not all Skellar are truly evil. All are thoroughly alien, though. Their goals are often things that would seem lame to others. There was once a story of a Skellar who joined a party of adventures on their journeys, requiring only that they pay it daily in the form of dry rations. More often than not, though, they will happily kill those who get in there way. Skellar rarely collect treasure. On occasion, they will acquire magic items, which they will always use, if possible. Leroy Van Camp III | "Another slave and a victim of fate, | another lesson in hate." van891@uidaho.edu | Ministry ------------------------------ From: jknotts@seldon.terminus.com Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:06:27 -0700 Subject: [Mystara] Bio/Immortals--Again The first time I sent this--it got messed up Welcome Mystarans, I'm John Knotts--a 29 year old member of the Air Force who has been involved in fantasy roleplaying since high school. I've played everything--personally, I'm not very happy with all of AD&D's rules, but I've found the Skills and Powers book very interesting. On Mystara--I've taken to this system like a duck to water! Long ago, I used to collect the Gaz accessories, but gave up soon after I started. I bought the Karameikos boxed set (new) and suddenly doors started opening. Now, I've done a great deal of research and still not complete. I'm looking for Gaz 3 (The Principalities of Galantri), 5 (The Elves of Alfheim),9 (The Minrothad Guilds), and TM1 (The Western Countries). I also plan on purchasing the newest two Mystara products for my birthday (Oct 11). I'm interested in everything there is on the Known World. I'm not interested in Hollow World or Spelljammer just yet! I have the PC series, the rest of the Gaz, the Poor Wizard's books, Heroes boxed set, Dawn of the Emperors, and even a copy of every Voyage of the Princess Article from the Dragon. I'm researching every shread of history available to build effective resources which TSR just won't provide! I also have both the books out in print on Mystara. If anyone has any questions for me I'd be glad to research the answer for them. Now, on to my newest project--The Immortals. Below is a compiled (to date) list of what several books have to say about the known Immortals of the Known World. I plan to develop specialty priest, yet I need help and guidance, both in fleshing out these Immortals and defining their abilities and what they convey to priests! HELP! Below is my list--enjoy and write! THE NATURE OF IMMORTALS This is a compilation of how Mystaran Immortals are viewed by the various cultures. Please assist me by adding any additional views you have found. Also, I would like to develop specialty priests for each of these Immortals. ALPHAKS Thyatian: This Patron of Pure Evil causes death, destruction, and misery; his sect is illegal within the Empire, but it is still popular; it appeals to chaotics who hate Alphatia, because it is part of the dogma of the Alphaks that Alphatia Must Be Destroyed. Sphere of Death; Chaotic. Alphatian: Though he is considered to be the destroyer of the First Empire and hated throughout Alphatia, Alphaks is followed by some chaotic clerics and magi-users of evil disposition. His presence has only been felt in the last couple of centuries; before that, it is assumed he was following the path to Immortality and then, perhaps, having a difficult time finding the descendants of the original Alphatians. His followers intend to help destroy the Alphatian Empire; for this reason, this sect is outlawed, and ruthlessly purged by the Empire whenever encountered. Alphaks I was emperor and led to the destruction of the Alphatian home world Alphatia. He led the Followers of Flame against the Followers of Air during the Year of Scouring. Those he led, banished him when they lost the war to the Air Wizards. Karameikos: An evil Immortal devoted to the destruction of Alphatia, Alphaks continues to meddle with the sinking of that island continent. He is known as the Roaring Fiend, and his symbol is a horned skull against a phoenix-like flame. ASTERIUS Thyatian: He is the Patron of Trade and Commerce, and merchants pray to him. He is also the Patron of Thievery, and so, many of the devotions left in his temples are contributed by thieves. Sphere of Thought; Neutral. Karameikos: The Patron of Trade, Merchants, and Thieves, Asterius is naturally venerated by caravan travelers, merchants, and robbers. His symbol is the moon. DIULANNA Thyatian: Patroness of Will. This Hinterlands Immortal, whom the Thyatians are now eagerly studying, represents the belief that with enough willpower and determination, one can achieve anything. It is she who grants victory (or at least honor) to the hero who throws himself against impossible odds. Sphere of Thought; Neutral. HALAV Thyatian: Patron of Warfare and Weapon Making. he was a hero to the native Karameikans of the ancient past; their king, he taught his people to forge bronze, then led them against invading beast-men. To the Thyatians, he exemplifies the teacher, who is also a warrior. Sphere of Thought; Lawful. Karameikos: An Immortal of warfare, Halav is one of three major Immortals venerated by the Traladaran people. He and the others (Petra, the warrior priest; and Zirchez of the forest) have priests dedicated to their name in both of Karameikos major churches. ILSUNDAL Thyatian: Patron of Elvenkind. His ways are followed by the elves in Thyatis, and by their friends, the Foresters, and by a few humans who have an affinity for the ways of the forest and nature. Sphere of Energy; Neutral. Karameikos: The Patron of Elves, Ilsundal's name is recognized among the various eleven peoples. Other elven heroes and heroines have become Immortals for smaller followings. MEALINDEN Thyatian: Ilsundal is guarded and aided by Mealiden, a later elf-king who is said to have achieved Immortality. KAGYAR Thyatian: Patron of Artisans, Patron of Dwarvenkind. His ways are followed by the dwarves in Thyatis, and by many races who have artistic learning abilities. Sphere of Matter; Lawful. Karameikos: The Patron of Dwarvish Peoples and believed to be their creator, Kagyar is the archtypical craftsman venerated by the dwarves. KOROTIKU THE SPIDER Thyatian: This Immortal of the Pearl Islands represents the clever Fighter and Rake; he is often called the Trickster. Sphere of Thought; Chaotic. KORYIS Thyatian: The Patron of Peace and Prosperity, introduced into the Empire by citizens of Alphatian descent. Popular here primarily with merchants; real warriors sneer at him. Most Ochalean clerics are followers of Koryis. Sphere of Thought; Lawful. Alphatian: The Patron of Peace and Prosperity is followed by a certain percentage of Alphatia's mechantile Gentry. Alphatian wizards privately consider him to be useless--they perceive that they make their own peace and prosperity through proper studies of magic. Fighters, too, ignore him, disliking his aspect as a patron of peaceability. Karameikos: A Patron of Peace and Prosperity, Koryis' following is strongest in those regions where such attributes are valued, such as in Darokin. His symbol is a hand, held palm forward. ODIN Thyatian: The Northern Realms Immortal is followed by many Thyatians of Oceansend descent and by others who admire the wedding of welfare with wisdom. Sphere of Matter; Lawful. Karameikos: A patron bearing the name of an extra-dimensional god, Odin is accused by those who know as being that god in Immortal guise, and by others as being an impostor taking on the mantle of a deity. Regardless, his worship is strongest in the savage northern reaches, along with others of the Norse pantheon, including Thor, Frey, Freyja, and (more secretly) Loki, and Hel. PROTIUS, THE OLD MAN OF THE SEA Thyatian: This Immortal represents the sea in all its aspects--treacherous, beautiful, bountiful, and terrifying. Many ship captains are clerics of Protius. He is well-liked in Ylaruam as the Patron of Al-Kalin. Sphere of Time; Neutral. Karameikos: An old Thyatian Immortal, Protius takes command of the ocean and is known as the Old Man of the Sea. His symbol is the trident. TARASTIA Thyatian: She is the Patroness of Justice and Revenge. Sphere of Energy; Lawful. Lucinius Trenzantenbium's half-sister, Empress Valentia. Karameikos: The Patroness of Justice and Revenge, Tarastia's cult is strong among Thyatians, particularly those looking for justice and revenge. THANATOS Thyatian: This Death-loving Immortal hates all life. His followers are underground sects of clerics who would betray their race for personal power. Sphere of Death; Chaotic. Karameikos: An Immortal of Entropy and Death, Thanatos is shunned throughout the Known World, but he is venerated in the urban hives of Thyatis. THOR Thyatian: Like Odin, this is an Immortal worshipped by Thyatians with Northern Realms ancestry. Thor is less interested in wisdom and more in the warrior's code than Odin; hence, he is more popular in Thyatis. Sphere of matter; Chaotic. VANYA Thyatian: Most popular Immortal to the Thyatians, Vanya was supposed to have been a Thyatian warrior-woman in the distant past. She is now the Patroness of War and Conquerors. Sphere of Time; Neutral. Karameikos: An Immortal Patroness of War and Conquest, Vanya's best (and most savage) servants are the Heldannic Knights, who have oppressed entire peoples in her name. EIRYNDUL Alphatian: This elvish Immortal led the Shiye clan to Alphatia around year 200 (BC 800, Thyatian calendar), and is the Patron of Elvenkind in Alphatia. (The Shiye also know of Ilsundal, the first Immortal Elvish Patron, but do not worship him) Sphere of Time; Neutral. RATHANOS Alphatian: This Immortal is worshipped by some Thothians; he is the Patron of Thothia and of Fire Wizards, and so is studied by the rogue descendants of the Followers of Flame. Sphere of Energy; Chaotic. ZIRCHEV Alphatian: This Immortal concerns himself with animals and monsters of all kinds; he promotes the study of beasts, of observance of nature, and the preservation of woods and animal-kind. He is studied and worshipped by some elves and by many clerics, magic-users, shamans, and wiccas of the Nation of Limn and the City of Trollhattan. Sphere of Energy; Neutral. AL-KALIM Karameikos: The Patron of the Eternal Truth and the Desert Garden, Al-Kalim has only recently attained his Immortality. He is closely connected with the people of Ylaruam, from whom he arose. He penned the Nahmeh, tome by which the Ylari devote their lives. ATRUAGHIN Karameikos: An Immortal who has given his name to the people of the Atruaghin Plateau, Atruaghin is in turn served by other, lesser Immortals. BOZDOGAN Karameikos: An Immortal of Lies, Half-truths, Deception, and Politicians, Bozdogan enjoys being the object of far-off Hule's main faith, which has raised treachery to an art form. GREAT ONE Karameikos: Immortal of All The Dragons, Great One is served by three other Immortal Dragons: Diamond (lawful dragons), Pearl (chaotic dragons), and Opal (neutral dragons). IXION Karameikos: An Immortal of the Sun, Ixion's symbol is the flaming wheel. he is seen as a force in opposition to evil such as Alphaks. MINROTH Karameikos: Minroth is another Patron of Prosperity, but in this case, of the Minrothad Guilds, which venerate his name. RAD Karameikos: While the Galantrians dislike religion in general and priests in particular, they do have an embodiment of the source of magic, known as the Radiance. Rad was the personification and control of this force, but has not been heard from since the recent War of the Immortals, which caused the disappearance of Alphatia and the appearance of the Great Crater. His whereabouts are unknown. RAFIEL Karameikos: Patron of the Shadow Elves, little is known of Rafiel save that the Shadow Elves are his chosen people, and his symbol is a book with a star on the cover. TURBAK Karameikos: The Patron of Law and Order among the Ethengarian peoples, Turbak is a harsh, but fair Immortal. Other Ethengarian Immortals are Yamuga (Patroness of Prosperity and Renewal) and Cretia (Patroness of Jokes and Punishment). VALERIAS Karameikos: The Patroness of Romance and Passion, Valerias' name is evoked by Thyatians and others in the name of love. Her symbol is the thorny rose, symbolizing beauty and its threat. FAUNUS (INUUS or LUPERCUS) Wee Folk: Patron of Herding, Hunting, and Husbandry (especially sheep herding), and the possible inventor of poetry. Those who honor him, seeking his assistance, celebrate two winter festivals, the Faunalia, in his honor. On these days, the country folk sacrifice goats, wine, and milk, and hold various games. Faunus may send his followers prophecies by the sounds of the forest or by dreams. TALLIVARI, THE ROOT MAKER Aquatic Elves: In Immortal of the Aquarendi. TERRA Special: Senior Patron of the Natural World. Fond of dragons and sponsored the only dragon Immortal, The Great One. Those of this order revere open mindedness above others and although primarily elvish, other races do belong. THE CAUSE Special: There are clerical orders which serve a cause rather than one of the Immortals. Yet, Immortals sympathetic to their cause will often grant them powers. ------------------------------ From: Mail Router (smail 2.8.1 dl,da,fa,tu,po,qf,dbm 05/18/93 33) Date: 21 Sep 95 08:27:48 MET DST Subject: [Mystara] Returned mail Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason: ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Executing: /usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer -C -n -u ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM!io.com!mystara-l wk06.Copenhagen.NCR.COM smunther@wk06.Copenhagen.NCR.COM smtpqer: Binary contents cannot be sent via SMTP server "/usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer" failed - unknown mailer error 1 ----- Unsent message follows ----- From mystara-l Wed Sep 20 23:06:27 0700 1995 remote from io.com Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7.Beta.14/8.7.Beta.14) with UUCP id CAA14270 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 02:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 21 Sep 95 02:22:44 EDT Received: (from root@localhost) by tristero.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAB04650 for mystara-l-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 01:06:58 -0500 Received: from seldon.terminus.com (seldon.terminus.com [204.182.12.10]) by tristero.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA04601 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 01:06:22 -0500 From: jknotts@seldon.terminus.com Received: from pm-lo-27.terminus.com by seldon.terminus.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/Chill_out) id AA34427; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:06:27 -0700 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:06:27 -0700 Message-Id: <9509210606.AA34427@seldon.terminus.com> Subject: [Mystara] Bio/Immortals--Again To: Mystara Mailing List X-Mailer: AIR Mail 3.X (SPRY, Inc.) Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com The first time I sent this--it got messed up Welcome Mystarans, I'm John Knotts--a 29 year old member of the Air Force who has been involved in fantasy roleplaying since high school. I've played everything--personally, I'm not very happy with all of AD&D's rules, but Ive found the Skills and Powers book very interesting. On Mystara--I've taken to this system like a duck to water! Long ago, I used to collect the Gaz accessories, but gave up soon after I started. I bought the Karameikos boxed set (new) and suddenly doors started opening. Now, I've done a great deal of research and still not complete. Im looking for Gaz 3 (The Principalities of Galantri), 5 (The Elves of Alfheim),9 (The Minrothad Guilds), and TM1 (The Western Countries). I also plan on purchasing the newest two Mystara products for my birthday (Oct 11). Im interested in everything there is on the Known World. I'm not interested in Hollow World or Spelljammer just yet! I have the PC series, the rest of the Gaz, the Poor Wizard's books, Heroes boxed set, Dawn of the Emperors, and even a copy of every Voyage of the Princess Article from the Dragon. Im researching every shread of history available to build effective resources which TSR just won't provide! I also have both the books out in print on Mystara. If anyone has any questions for me I'd be glad to research the answer for them. Now, on to my newest project--The Immortals. Below is a compiled (to date) list of what several books have to say about the known Immortals of the Known World. I plan to develop specialty priest, yet I need help and guidance, both in fleshing out these Immortals and defining their abilities and what they convey to priests! HELP! Below is my list--enjoy and write! THE NATURE OF IMMORTALS This is a compilation of how Mystaran Immortals are viewed by the various cultures. Please assist me by adding any additional views you have found. Also, I would like to develop specialty priests for each of these Immortals. ALPHAKS Thyatian: This Patron of Pure Evil causes death, destruction, and misery; his sect is illegal within the Empire, but it is still popular; it appeals to chaotics who hate Alphatia, because it is part of the dogma of the Alphaks that Alphatia Must Be Destroyed. Sphere of Death; Chaotic. Alphatian: Though he is considered to be the destroyer of the First Empire and hated throughout Alphatia, Alphaks is followed by some chaotic clerics and magi-users of evil disposition. His presence has only been felt in the last couple of centuries; before that, it is assumed he was following the path to Immortality and then, perhaps, having a difficult time finding the descendants of the original Alphatians. His followers intend to help destroy the Alphatian Empire; for this reason, this sect is outlawed, and ruthlessly purged by the Empire whenever encountered. Alphaks I was emperor and led to the destruction of the Alphatian home world Alphatia. He led the Followers of Flame against the Followers of Air during the Year of Scouring. Those he led, banished him when they lost the war to the Air Wizards. Karameikos: An evil Immortal devoted to the destruction of Alphatia, Alphaks continues to meddle with the sinking of that island continent. He is known as the Roaring Fiend, and his symbol is a horned skull against a phoenix-like flame. ASTERIUS Thyatian: He is the Patron of Trade and Commerce, and merchants pray to him. He is also the Patron of Thievery, and so, many of the devotions left in his temples are contributed by thieves. Sphere of Thought; Neutral. Karameikos: The Patron of Trade, Merchants, and Thieves, Asterius is naturally venerated by caravan travelers, merchants, and robbers. His symbol is the moon. DIULANNA Thyatian: Patroness of Will. This Hinterlands Immortal, whom the Thyatians are now eagerly studying, represents the belief that with enough willpower and determination, one can achieve anything. It is she who grants victory (or at least honor) to the hero who throws himself against impossible odds. Sphere of Thought; Neutral. HALAV Thyatian: Patron of Warfare and Weapon Making. he was a hero to the native Karameikans of the ancient past; their king, he taught his people to forge bronze, then led them against invading beast-men. To the Thyatians, he exemplifies the teacher, who is also a warrior. Sphere of Thought; Lawful. Karameikos: An Immortal of warfare, Halav is one of three major Immortals venerated by the Traladaran people. He and the others (Petra, the warrior priest; and Zirchez of the forest) have priests dedicated to their name in both of Karameikos major churches. ILSUNDAL Thyatian: Patron of Elvenkind. His ways are followed by the elves in Thyatis, and by their friends, the Foresters, and by a few humans who have an affinity for the ways of the forest and nature. Sphere of Energy; Neutral. Karameikos: The Patron of Elves, Ilsundals name is recognized among the various eleven peoples. Other elven heroes and heroines have become Immortals for smaller followings. MEALINDEN Thyatian: Ilsundal is guarded and aided by Mealiden, a later elf-king who is said to have achieved Immortality. KAGYAR Thyatian: Patron of Artisans, Patron of Dwarvenkind. His ways are followed by the dwarves in Thyatis, and by many races who have artistic learning abilities. Sphere of Matter; Lawful. Karameikos: The Patron of Dwarvish Peoples and believed to be their creator, Kagyar is the archtypical craftsman venerated by the dwarves. KOROTIKU THE SPIDER Thyatian: This Immortal of the Pearl Islands represents the clever Fighter and Rake; he is often called the Trickster. Sphere of Thought; Chaotic. KORYIS Thyatian: The Patron of Peace and Prosperity, introduced into the Empire by citizens of Alphatian descent. Popular here primarily with merchants; real warriors sneer at him. Most Ochalean clerics are followers of Koryis. Sphere of Thought; Lawful. Alphatian: The Patron of Peace and Prosperity is followed by a certain percentage of Alphatias mechantile Gentry. Alphatian wizards privately consider him to be useless--they perceive that they make their own peace and prosperity through proper studies of magic. Fighters, too, ignore him, disliking his aspect as a patron of peaceability. Karameikos: A Patron of Peace and Prosperity, Koryis following is strongest in those regions where such attributes are valued, such as in Darokin. His symbol is a hand, held palm forward. ODIN Thyatian: The Northern Realms Immortal is followed by many Thyatians of Oceansend descent and by others who admire the wedding of welfare with wisdom. Sphere of Matter; Lawful. Karameikos: A patron bearing the name of an extra-dimensional god, Odin is accused by those who know as being that god in Immortal guise, and by others as being an impostor taking on the mantle of a deity. Regardless, his worship is strongest in the savage northern reaches, along with others of the Norse pantheon, including Thor, Frey, Freyja, and (more secretly) Loki, and Hel. PROTIUS, THE OLD MAN OF THE SEA Thyatian: This Immortal represents the sea in all its aspects--treacherous, beautiful, bountiful, and terrifying. Many ship captains are clerics of Protius. He is well-liked in Ylaruam as the Patron of Al-Kalin. Sphere of Time; Neutral. Karameikos: An old Thyatian Immortal, Protius takes command of the ocean and is known as the Old Man of the Sea. His symbol is the trident. TARASTIA Thyatian: She is the Patroness of Justice and Revenge. Sphere of Energy; Lawful. Lucinius Trenzantenbiums half-sister, Empress Valentia. Karameikos: The Patroness of Justice and Revenge, Tarastias cult is strong among Thyatians, particularly those looking for justice and revenge. THANATOS Thyatian: This Death-loving Immortal hates all life. His followers are underground sects of clerics who would betray their race for personal power. Sphere of Death; Chaotic. Karameikos: An Immortal of Entropy and Death, Thanatos is shunned throughout the Known World, but he is venerated in the urban hives of Thyatis. THOR Thyatian: Like Odin, this is an Immortal worshipped by Thyatians with Northern Realms ancestry. Thor is less interested in wisdom and more in the warriors code than Odin; hence, he is more popular in Thyatis. Sphere of matter; Chaotic. VANYA Thyatian: Most popular Immortal to the Thyatians, Vanya was supposed to have been a Thyatian warrior-woman in the distant past. She is now the Patroness of War and Conquerors. Sphere of Time; Neutral. Karameikos: An Immortal Patroness of War and Conquest, Vanyas best (and most savage) servants are the Heldannic Knights, who have oppressed entire peoples in her name. EIRYNDUL Alphatian: This elvish Immortal led the Shiye clan to Alphatia around year 200 (BC 800, Thyatian calendar), and is the Patron of Elvenkind in Alphatia. (The Shiye also know of Ilsundal, the first Immortal Elvish Patron, but do not worship him) Sphere of Time; Neutral. RATHANOS Alphatian: This Immortal is worshipped by some Thothians; he is the Patron of Thothia and of Fire Wizards, and so is studied by the rogue descendants of the Followers of Flame. Sphere of Energy; Chaotic. ZIRCHEV Alphatian: This Immortal concerns himself with animals and monsters of all kinds; he promotes the study of beasts, of observance of nature, and the preservation of woods and animal-kind. He is studied and worshipped by some elves and by many clerics, magic-users, shamans, and wiccas of the Nation of Limn and the City of Trollhattan. Sphere of Energy; Neutral. AL-KALIM Karameikos: The Patron of the Eternal Truth and the Desert Garden, Al-Kalim has only recently attained his Immortality. He is closely connected with the people of Ylaruam, from whom he arose. He penned the Nahmeh, tome by which the Ylari devote their lives. ATRUAGHIN Karameikos: An Immortal who has given his name to the people of the Atruaghin Plateau, Atruaghin is in turn served by other, lesser Immortals. BOZDOGAN Karameikos: An Immortal of Lies, Half-truths, Deception, and Politicians, Bozdogan enjoys being the object of far-off Hules main faith, which has raised treachery to an art form. GREAT ONE Karameikos: Immortal of All The Dragons, Great One is served by three other Immortal Dragons: Diamond (lawful dragons), Pearl (chaotic dragons), and Opal (neutral dragons). IXION Karameikos: An Immortal of the Sun, Ixions symbol is the flaming wheel. he is seen as a force in opposition to evil such as Alphaks. MINROTH Karameikos: Minroth is another Patron of Prosperity, but in this case, of the Minrothad Guilds, which venerate his name. RAD Karameikos: While the Galantrians dislike religion in general and priests in particular, they do have an embodiment of the source of magic, known as the Radiance. Rad was the personification and control of this force, but has not been heard from since the recent War of the Immortals, which caused the disappearance of Alphatia and the appearance of the Great Crater. His whereabouts are unknown. RAFIEL Karameikos: Patron of the Shadow Elves, little is known of Rafiel save that the Shadow Elves are his chosen people, and his symbol is a book with a star on the cover. TURBAK Karameikos: The Patron of Law and Order among the Ethengarian peoples, Turbak is a harsh, but fair Immortal. Other Ethengarian Immortals are Yamuga (Patroness of Prosperity and Renewal) and Cretia (Patroness of Jokes and Punishment). VALERIAS Karameikos: The Patroness of Romance and Passion, Valerias name is evoked by Thyatians and others in the name of love. Her symbol is the thorny rose, symbolizing beauty and its threat. FAUNUS (INUUS or LUPERCUS) Wee Folk: Patron of Herding, Hunting, and Husbandry (especially sheep herding), and the possible inventor of poetry. Those who honor him, seeking his assistance, celebrate two winter festivals, the Faunalia, in his honor. On these days, the country folk sacrifice goats, wine, and milk, and hold various games. Faunus may send his followers prophecies by the sounds of the forest or by dreams. TALLIVARI, THE ROOT MAKER Aquatic Elves: In Immortal of the Aquarendi. TERRA Special: Senior Patron of the Natural World. Fond of dragons and sponsored the only dragon Immortal, The Great One. Those of this order revere open mindedness above others and although primarily elvish, other races do belong. THE CAUSE Special: There are clerical orders which serve a cause rather than one of the Immortals. Yet, Immortals sympathetic to their cause will often grant them powers. ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:26:54 -0400 Subject: [Mystara] Northern Reaches Well met Listers, Scooby Here. GM and playing Mystara for about 8/9 years. Need some help or thoughts. Takes place in Norther Reaches(Vestland) Party Human Barbarian (5th level) Human Cleric of Strength (6th Level) Human Barbarian-Witch Doctor(Split into Mage/druid 5th Level) Human Psionicist/Fighter (5th/4th Level) Elven Fighter/Mage (5th/4th level) Elven Thief/Cleric (5th/4th Level) This past weekend my campaign(I GM) took a drastic turn. The party was exploring a cave(which led to a lost keep) on the border of Ethengar planes and Vestland. The keep was lost to humanoids during battles 50 years previous. A powerful wizard at that time was a member of the keep, and had trapped a powerful creature. When the keep was overrun the creature was left there in its magic circle. Well the party first found a note book in the wizards lab talking about Sonora (lost king of vestland). The barbarian of the party wanted to find more info about the lost king and recover the crown (which will grant Kingdom). They later freed this powerful creature after several attempts. The creature offered to grant them a wish Human Cleric of Strength (Item - to help them get out of current situation) Human Barbarian-Witch Doctor(Raise a pack of wolves he killed by accident) Human Psionicist/Fighter (Item - psionic weapon) Elven Fighter/Mage (Not There) Elven Thief/Cleric (Not There) Human Barbarian(to meet mage who wrote notebook to find out more about Sonora) All were fine(not very powerful) except the barbarian. I decided to send them back in time(50 years - just bought chronomancer). The keep was being overrun by the humanoids and they met the wizard as he was writing his last entry into the notebook. He answered a few questions about sonora, then said the must escape. (thats where we left off). Now when they leave the room I am going to have a hoard of orcs meet them. The orcs will kill the high level mage(not really that high) and attack the party. I assume the party will escape through the secret tunnel that they came into (50 years in the future). My question is what should I do( I have a couple of thoughts) The barbarian will most likely try to now save the captured King of vestland (because he was only recently captured in this time). But some of the other party members I am not sure. -I can have the king die anyways (same effect on time) -I can have it be a trap to lure the mage(party) to waiting foes -I can have them save the king (very changed time line) -Other background currently Ostland was taken over by the cnutes(clan) and ousted the barbarians clan (which is why he wants power) He may try to change the take over. One thought is when he tries to warn the current clan leader about the take over (the two clans are curently friends) he will cause them to become enemies (because of acusation(sp)). Thus he is reason for cnutes tkae over. What happens if they try to get magic items they know where will be 50 years from now? -Have the magic items not be there(this will only work for some items) What happens if they try to meet their parents/gand parents, or in case of elves(by wording of wish they were transported also) meet themselves. -I like the 'Time cop' logic that they cannot touch themselves or they will be destroyed -Or should I let them interfere with their ancestors -Other background Psionicist' (note: humans in this area live to be about 30-40 years, so his grand father will still be alive) (Great grand father is hiding out, but helping him as a secret mentor in the future, he thinks his great grand father is dead) So he might try to contact is grand father to find out about his great grand father. If all gets too weird I will have a time lord come and replace them back in their own time stream, but they might make a few changes? Just my current campaign. Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 05:34:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mystara] Problems with the List Mystarans, For reasons unknown (to me, anyway) a glitch has turned up in the operation of the Mystaran Mailing List. So, until you here from me, please don't post anything. Hopefully we will be able to clear this up and get back under way. Thanks. And I am sorry for this. Orion | When you shoot at some body over no provocation, owner-mystara-l@io.com | I mean when you.. when uh... when uh... when I - -----------------------/ didn't say nothin' to the man, I didn't pull out no gun and tell him I'm going to do this to him, shoot him, and never had worked with the man before, and he just shoots at me, that's a pretty radical group right there, if you ask me. - F.L.A ------------------------------ From: Dorin Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] NPCs Hi gang, I've got some spare time coming up this weekend, so I was thinking of posting some (half-finished) NPCs which I've been using in my home campaign. I'll try to make them fit properly into Mystara, but since I'm using a bunch of stuff from WFRP's Old World, they might confuse some of you. Anyway, before I go ahead and waste both bandwidth and my time typing them all in, I wanted to ask for opinions on this. Should I do it, or hold off and put them on an FTP site somewhere? Before I go any further, I should point out that these NPCs have been co-created by my players, myself, and a few people on the 'net, who offered advice and interesting twists. If I receive favourable replies by the end of today (Thursday), I'll try to get them out tomorrow. Respectfully, - Dorin dorin@cs.mcgill.ca ------------------------------ From: Sir George Anonymous Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Greetings and Salutations Hi all, I haven't seen any postings to the list yet, hopefully because I've elected to receive it in digest format. I just thought I would get the ball rolling with an introduction. I've been using Mystara as my primary AD&D campaign setting for about 15 years now. I fell in love with it then, and still believe that it is one of the most dynamic worlds TSR has ever created. My current campaign started 3-1/2 years ago, and has grown from a struggling three players to an overlarge seven players and a waiting list. Currently we are in the late fall of the year AC 1001, but I plan on accelerating the time line very shortly so that I can use some of the events from Wrath of the Immortals. I pushed for the creation of the Mystara Mailing List because I don't want interest in Mystara to die off now that TSR is no longer supporting it. I want to see ideas about the future timeline of the world continue to flow. Perhaps a net.book or an article or two for Dragon or Duneon magazine might eventually be in order. I won't propose my pet project to the list just yet because I don't want to bore those persons who don't care about the AD&D version of Mystara. Even though I play AD&D, I think players of both games have a great deal that they can contribute the the future of the setting. OK enough rambling from me. Who else is on the list? >>> Sir George Anonymous <<< ************************************************************************** ** ** ** There are no Thyatians here. There are no Traladarans. There are ** ** only citizens of Karameikos. - King Stefan Karameikos, AC 1012 ** ** ** ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 17:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mystara] One more try Arrgh! I have sent the message below to the list two times before, and it still hasn't shown up at either of my two sites. If _anyone_ gets a copy of this, please e-mail me at the address in the .sig. Thanks. Note: I originally sent this from io.com, but haven't seen it arrive anywhere, so I am reposting it from my other account. If you have noticed any problems, like error messages from you local mailer-daemon, when posting to the MML, please contact me at the address in the .sig, below. Mystarans, For reasons unknown (to me, anyway) a glitch has turned up in the operation of the Mystaran Mailing List. So, until you here from me, please don't post anything. Hopefully we will be able to clear this up and get back under way. Thanks. And I am sorry for this. P.S. The problem seems to be connected to the Digest. If anyone receives this message as part of a digest, please contact me at the address in my .sig. Orion | When you shoot at some body over no provocation, owner-mystara-l@io.com | I mean when you.. when uh... when uh... when I - -----------------------/ didn't say nothin' to the man, I didn't pull out no gun and tell him I'm going to do this to him, shoot him, and never had worked with the man before, and he just shoots at me, that's a pretty radical group right there, if you ask me. - F.L.A ------------------------------ From: rogers@bbs.tde.com Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 23:50:59 -0700 Subject: [Mystara] SKELLAR My> Originating from another planet, the Skellar are completely alien My> creatures whose motives and goals are unknown. Thanks for posting this to the list, LeRoy. If I can make one editorial comment, I'd like to suggest that you give the skellar more of a background and a description of their motives. Without these, the skellar are mostly fighting machines. With more explanations for DMs, they would be more interesting in encounters. Just a thought, however ... Rogers Cadenhead ... Internet: rogers@pobox.com ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------ From: rogers@bbs.tde.com Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 23:50:57 -0700 Subject: [Mystara] MODULE X13, CROWN OF My> I am looking for good modules or module recommendations. Having a full My> time job and three kids I have little time for playing preparations. My> Please list your favorite modules This isn't a module recommendation, but rather a warning instead. I took over a message-based game that was running X13, Crown of Ancient Glory, set in Vestland and the neighboring countries. I'm only getting started in it, but so far I have been disappointed in the approach. It's a typical "stranger hands you a message and asks you to go somewhere for a quest" scenario, and I haven't seen much to make it stand out. There's also a bit of a problem with the names. I have trouble believing a duke in Vestland would have the name "Lars Longfellow." A drunken warrior in a tavern, maybe, but Duke Lars Longfellow? That one needs to go back to the name factory for retooling! Rogers Cadenhead ... Internet: rogers@pobox.com ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------ From: Sven Munther Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 10:06:00 MET Subject: [Mystara] Mystara DM survival Pack Sven> I am looking for good modules or module recommendations. Having a full Sven> time job and three kids I have little time for playing preparations. Sven> Please list your favorite modules Roger>This isn't a module recommendation, but rather a warning instead. OK, If we talk about warnings, let me warn against 'Mystara DM's survival pack'. It is multitude of useless information and sheets with kinder-class style art. It is beyond doubt the worst piece of cr** I have purchased from any company. I guess TSR must have sacked their QA department. No wonder they feel that the Mystara stuff fail to sell, when they put out stuff like this. I have not tried the Mystara PC Survival pack, so I cannot comment on that, but I fear it is same standard. Sven ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 14:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects Greetings, once again! I'm assuming the temporary moratorium on messages has been repealed (since I've seen a few messages trickle through) . On Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Orion wrote: > The following is a list of projects that the Mailing List might work > on together. It's certainly not complete, nor are all the ideas of equal > value. Feedback is both welcome and desired. > If we can gather enough material, we can start putting out netbooks. > > The Mystara FAQ > This shouldn't hard (hopefully). Whenever someone comes up with a > good question, we'll add it. I will probably start work on this before > too long. An excellent suggestion. I'd be willing to write an "evolution of Mystara" section - I have everything T$R ever published on the subject. > Mystara Index > The Known World is spread through out a large number of supplements, > making it difficult at times to know if you have all available information > at hand. > A good solution would be complete indexes of every Mystara product out > their. > Now, if this was done by one person, it would be a monumental task. > But, if each person on the list took one product and indexed it, the work > load would be spread out. These individual indices could then be > compiled. Great, when do we start? > Alternate Ierendis > Am I the only one who though the Ierendi Gazetteer to be a cruel, and > unfunny, joke? If I am, then this project has no merit. But if others > out there have come up with their own versions of this country, it would > be nice to see them in print. I will be submitting mine to the list, > eventually. I disagree with you here. Pirates, native islanders, the Honor Island Mages ... when you merge it with PC3 "The Sea People" it works amazingly well. Cast me as a GAZ 4 loyalist. > New Gazetteers > Wouldn't it be nice to have Gazetteers on some of the countries that > T$R gave us little detail of? The two that spring to mind are Wendar and > Heldann Freeholds. The two that were repeatedly mentioned in Bruce Heard's column! Sounds great - but my vote would be to leave those be (you can glean enough information from modules and the Poor Wizard's Almanac). Let's take on a grander scheme - the mapping of Mystara! There are acres of undiscovered country! > Writing complete Gazetteers would be no small feat, but it could be a > group project. Count me in! > Mystaraspace Count me out! > Tourist Guides > For those not familiar with them, T$R puts out supplements for > Forgotten Realms called the Volo's Guide series. Each is a book dedicated > to the sites and locales in a certain city or area of the Realms, such as > taverns, inns, stores, ruins, and castles. > I feel such information for Mystara would be of great help to a GM. > It wouldn't be that hard, either. Each person could claim one city or > town and detail such establishments. They could then be grouped according > to country, giving the Tourist's Guide to Karameikos, and so on. This is a fabulous idea! How many of us have run campaigns in Specularum, for instance? My extention of your idea goes something like this: Everybody who has run (or played) through the streets of Specularum can contribute one or two locales/businesses/etc. By sending them all to one site (along with a footnote telling the city editor which section of town to place the spot!) we can have these tourist guides in no time. People can include their favorite NPCs and so on. Heck, we could even revise (revisit?) these cities/etc at later dates to further flesh them out once we've played them through a bit. The Streets of Specularum ... sounds cool. > Rumors and Adventure Seeds > New Races > Specialty Priests of the Immortals Sounds great! Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 16:21:11 -0400 Subject: [Mystara] Mapping of Mystara > > > > New Gazetteers > > Wouldn't it be nice to have Gazetteers on some of the countries that > > T$R gave us little detail of? The two that spring to mind are Wendar and > > Heldann Freeholds. I would like to see both of these detailed as there is not alot of information on them. > The two that were repeatedly mentioned in Bruce Heard's column! > Sounds great - but my vote would be to leave those be (you can glean > enough information from modules and the Poor Wizard's Almanac). Let's > take on a grander scheme - the mapping of Mystara! There are acres of > undiscovered country! Actually I have most of Mystara mapped. I have collected all of the Gazzetters, Modules that I could get ahold of(almost all) and all dragon issues that pertain to Mystara. I have the continent layout all done and started with major mountain ranges and rivers (mostly in the known world area). The only problem is that it is in Campaign cartographer. And it exports very very poorly to a gif file format. > > > > Mystaraspace > [started with previous posts] Mainly because the spelljammer list people wanted to do it. Thus I decided that it should be done. I am collecting the information from that list and keeping it. Thus if you want to add, just post I and I will try to grab it. > > Other Ideas. I am developing an area on the continent east of Brun (I forget the name right now) This is where the old Blackmoor civilization use to be. The basics are as follows: The capital city is hidden deep in the center of the continent. It barried below the jungles some even below the earth. A great lich currently is in control of the area. He cannot leave because his magic is tied directly to the city. Thus he sends out his minions to do his dirty work. He is try to collect lost artifacts from the age of blackmoor. He thinks this will allow him to leave his prison. The party will slowly come across one or two of the items and the lich will steal them from the party. When the party rises a bit in level (actually alot!) then they may go after him. So any input from the group is appreciated. I assume that it is similar to the city of the gods. High buildings made of steel, and stone. Thanks. Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 17:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mapping of Mystara Orion posted: > > > New Gazetteers > > > Wouldn't it be nice to have Gazetteers on some of the countries that > > > T$R gave us little detail of? The two that spring to mind are Wendar and > > > Heldann Freeholds. Then Joseph (Scooby) DuBois wrote: > > I would like to see both of these detailed as there is not alot of > information on them. I said: > > The two that were repeatedly mentioned in Bruce Heard's column! > > Sounds great - but my vote would be to leave those be (you can glean > > enough information from modules and the Poor Wizard's Almanac). Let's > > take on a grander scheme - the mapping of Mystara! There are acres of > > undiscovered country! (X11, AC1010, AC1011, AC1012, and WotI provide plenty of background that individual DMs could add to - maybe we could flesh them out as a group?) Scooby said: > Actually I have most of Mystara mapped. I have collected all of the > Gazzetters, Modules that I could get ahold of(almost all) and all dragon > issues that pertain to Mystara. I have the continent layout all done and > started with major mountain ranges and rivers (mostly in the known > world area). The only problem is that it is in Campaign cartographer. > And it exports very very poorly to a gif file format. Well, what I meant wasn't just geographical mapping - I was referring to using the existing maps to add new countries and empires, much like what Bruce Heard did with the Voyage of the Princess Ark. Before we embark upon this, however, I really think we should define a timeline for it. This way we can incorporate more than one person's ideas! We can assume that the detail of Mystara published thus far is pre-AC1200 and the Great War. Any new countries could be set in AC 1400, or 2000, or 10000 and so on. We could even add to each other's ideas through time. Scooby continued: > I am developing an area on the continent east of Brun (I forget the > name right now) This is where the old Blackmoor civilization use to > be. I've deleted your description, but that is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to see. Why don't you give it a name, a more precise geographical location, and a spot on the timeline? (Incidentally - there is a major incongruity in T$Rs location of ancient Blackmoor. On their Hollow World Maps they place Blackmoor and the Thonian Empire way the heck away from the Broken Lands, and not even on Brun! If the Inn Between the Worlds is located in the Broken Lands, however, and it was originally in Blackmoor, then it stands to reason that ancient Blackmoor is where the modern day Broken Lands are. In my campaign, I've had all kinds of sages throughout the centuries hypothesizing on the location of the ancient civilization of Blackmoor. One particular sage, Bensarian of Wendar, worked out complicated mathematical formulae to determine where the explosion that shifted the planet's axis and caused the Great Rain of Fire detonated. His great error was assuming that the device that exploded was in Blackmoor itself, when in actuality it was far away on another continent (having the same effect on that civilization anyway, which was further destroyed when the elf-induced explosion occured in the Broken Lands). Bensarian's hypothesis and proof thereof was so elegant, however, that it quickly became the favorite theory regarding the ancient civilization's location. One of Bensarian's pupils - Aron Elstone - published maps that were widely copied - effectively protecting the true location and access thereto by redirecting people far away from the Broken Lands). Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 10:09:22 -0400 Subject: [Mystara] Re: Vestland (Crown of Ancient Glory) Well met Listers, [Note I sent this while we were having problems and I don't think it went through, so I am sending it again - sorry if its a repost] Scooby Here. GM and playing Mystara for about 8/9 years. I am currently running a campaign in Vestland, and I have a barbarian amoung others, so I decided to run a modified "Crown on ancient Glory". I Need some help or thoughts on how it came about. Takes place in Norther Reaches(Vestland) Party Human Barbarian (5th level) Human Cleric of Strength (6th Level) Human Barbarian-Witch Doctor(Split into Mage/druid 5th Level) Human Psionicist/Fighter (5th/4th Level) Elven Fighter/Mage (5th/4th level) Elven Thief/Cleric (5th/4th Level) This past weekend my campaign(I GM) took a drastic turn. The party was exploring a cave(which led to a lost keep) on the border of Ethengar planes and Vestland. The keep was lost to humanoids during battles 50 years previous. A powerful wizard at that time was a member of the keep, and had trapped a powerful creature. When the keep was overrun the creature was left there in its magic circle. Well the party first found a note book in the wizards lab talking about Sonora (lost king of vestland). The barbarian of the party wanted to find more info about the lost king and recover the crown (which will grant Kingdom). They later freed this powerful creature after several attempts. The creature offered to grant them a wish Human Cleric of Strength (Item - to help them get out of current situation) Human Barbarian-Witch Doctor(Raise a pack of wolves he killed by accident) Human Psionicist/Fighter (Item - psionic weapon) Elven Fighter/Mage (Not There) Elven Thief/Cleric (Not There) Human Barbarian(to meet mage who wrote notebook to find out more about Sonora) All were fine(not very powerful) except the barbarian. I decided to send them back in time(50 years - just bought chronomancer). The keep was being overrun by the humanoids and they met the wizard as he was writing his last entry into the notebook. He answered a few questions about sonora, then said the must escape. (thats where we left off). Now when they leave the room I am going to have a hoard of orcs meet them. The orcs will kill the high level mage(not really that high) and attack the party. I assume the party will escape through the secret tunnel that they came into (50 years in the future). My question is what should I do( I have a couple of thoughts) The barbarian will most likely try to now save the captured King of vestland (because he was only recently captured in this time). But some of the other party members I am not sure. -I can have the king die anyways (same effect on time) -I can have it be a trap to lure the mage(party) to waiting foes -I can have them save the king (very changed time line) -Other background currently Ostland was taken over by the cnutes(clan) and ousted the barbarians clan (which is why he wants power) He may try to change the take over. One thought is when he tries to warn the current clan leader about the take over (the two clans are curently friends) he will cause them to become enemies (because of acusation(sp)). Thus he is reason for cnutes tkae over. What happens if they try to get magic items they know where will be 50 years from now? -Have the magic items not be there(this will only work for some items) What happens if they try to meet their parents/gand parents, or in case of elves(by wording of wish they were transported also) meet themselves. -I like the 'Time cop' logic that they cannot touch themselves or they will be destroyed -Or should I let them interfere with their ancestors -Other background Psionicist' (note: humans in this area live to be about 30-40 years, so his grand father will still be alive) (Great grand father is hiding out, but helping him as a secret mentor in the future, he thinks his great grand father is dead) So he might try to contact is grand father to find out about his great grand father. If all gets too weird I will have a time lord come and replace them back in their own time stream, but they might make a few changes? Just my current campaign. Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:44:55 -0400 Subject: [Mystara] Sphere layout of Mystara Space Well met Listers, This was mentioned in both mailing lists, So I am posting it to both, I think we need input from both groups to properly design the sphere. mystara-l@io.com spelljammer@leicester.ac.uk Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com I will gladly keep info that is posted about it since I am on both mailing lists. Mystara Space - ------------- Mystara space is a standard sphere for the most part. It has a large fire body at center with most of the other bodies orbiting around the fire body. Known Planets SUN: The sun is a fire based world. at the center of Mystara: Mystara is a earth based hollow world. It has two moons. One of which is cloaked by an invisible shield and is home to the race of rakasha(sp). The planet has two large holes at both its current north and south poles. These holes allow access into the hollow sphere. But the jammer beware as there is a anti magic shield that extends from the surface (I don't think it covers the entire whole) that will send a spelljammer ship towards its doom in the planets gravity. The planet is not as advanced (Port Ratings of C - [see next rhyme]) as they mostly use crude flying ships built and propeled by flying magics or a powerful Magic gem(Heldnan FreeHolds). The gnomes have several flying ships. Their largest is the flying Balistta. Which is a large platform built from ancient technology(two jet engines). The gnomes have been able to get the jets working and have always kept adding more and more structure to the platform. From the ballista they have many small fighter planes (usually powered by magic - not helms) that protect the platform. The other main type of flying ship is the gnomes air ballons. These are mainly used by the gnomes in the hollow world. Mystara-Moon 1:(Name - ) Mystara-Moon 2:(Name - ) Invisible shield surrounds the planet due to the makeup of the planets core. It is home to the Rakasha(sp). With flying manticore used as mounts for patrols. (Proposed) Alphaita Belt -or- Cluster: This belt is the remains from the home world of the Alphaitians. Which was destroyed by their magics long ago. (In gazzetter time (2000+ years previous) AC 1001). Their world was destroyed leaving only origianlly a cluster of large rocks and debris. But after several thousand years the orbital track of the world created what is today known as the Alphaita Belt. The larger rock bodies contain slim air atmospheres, but little if no vegitation. If one looks hard enough through the belt they will come across the lairs of powerful wizards. These are wizards that survived the catalysm and have since rebuilt strong holds amoung the debris. These are always one of two type of wizards. Either a Fire wizard or a Air Wizard. ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:03:11 -0400 Subject: [Mystara] Alphaita Wizards Listers, A question about the Alphaita wizards? Were there only fire and air wizards, or were they only the two prominate wizards types. If there were other types, then what happened to them when their home world was destroyed. I would like to add some info. Watash (Previously know as Landash): This was once a earth based world, but when the water wizards of Alphaita knew that the fire wizards and the air wizards were going to destroy their world the escaped. Two groups left. The first group (larger of the two) went to Landash. It was previously a low population world with little or no knowledge of magic. Mostly a technical civilization though no where near the tech state as City of the gods. They had large castles and fortresses and such. When the water wizards arrived on the planet they were able to quickly take over using their magics. They then began raising the oceans(Yea I saw water world and I loved it!). Soon all but the highest mountain ranges were under water. Since then it has become to be known as watash. The other group of water wizards made their way to Mystara. Here they settled in a peacful state in the gulf of Hule. Both groups now live in vast cities, castles that are deep underwater. Hidden from their evil brethren Fire and Air Wizards. Mystara Water Wizards: If you are playing in the Warth of the Immortals setting After the sinking of Alphaita, then you can have the water wizards move into the now sunken cities of the Air Wizards. Just thoughts Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 18:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Great War Time and Blackmoor Place Greetings all, I'm David "Azure" Leland and I've been DMing Mystara campaigns for about 10-12 years now. My most recent is a campaign framed by WotI events which is in its 4th (real-time) year now. I use the OD&D system, with some snippets borrowed from AD&D and of course some house rules. My players have just finished an apocalyptic battle in a robot depot in the City of the Gods in ancient Blackmoor (see DA3) and I'm eager to see what they try to do next, given the number of expedition members (5 PCs + 4 Blackmoor NPCs + 8 sand folk) who are paralyzed or dead. Anyway... On Tue, 26 Sep 1995, D.J. Sahlas wrote: > We can assume that the detail of Mystara published thus far is > pre-AC1200 and the Great War. Any new countries could be set in AC > 1400, or 2000, or 10000 and so on. We could even add to each other's > ideas through time. Remember that some of us (WotI users especially) may have the Great War taking place before AC1200 (WotI suggests 1005). > (Incidentally - there is a major incongruity in T$Rs location of > ancient Blackmoor. On their Hollow World Maps they place Blackmoor and > the Thonian Empire way the heck away from the Broken Lands, and not even > on Brun! If the Inn Between the Worlds is located in the Broken Lands, > however, and it was originally in Blackmoor, then it stands to reason > that ancient Blackmoor is where the modern day Broken Lands are. Actually, DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor describes how the Inn Between the Worlds spent a long time under sea and also being moved by glaciers. There's no reason to think that Blackmoor existed where the Broken Lands are except for the terrain, and--as you pointed out--that was caused not by the cataclysm (Great Rain of Fire) but by a separate explosion when elves tampered with another Blackmoor device, which we can't say for certain was on the site of former Blackmoor (in fact, given that the Inn moved, it's more certain to say that Blackmoor could not have been on the site of the Broken Lands). So I'm happy with Blackmoor having been where "Elstone" says it was. :) --Azure a.k.a. David Leland v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 20:22:47 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sphere layout of Mystara Space Mystara-Moon 1:(Name Matera "Mother") a dead planetoid (much like luna), only form of life is the planar-pocket on the sun-side (ie. facing away from Mystara/Mystarra). This pocket holds Pandius, a neutral meeting site for those OD&D Immortals/Gods and their servants who are interested in Mystara/Mystarra and the Hollow World. Mystara-Moon 2:(Name - ) Invisible shield surrounds the planet due to > the makeup of the planets core. It is home to the Rakasha(sp). With > flying manticore used as mounts for patrols. The name is Patera ("Father") or Myoshima (the inhabitant's name for it). The Rakasha here have developed into a imperial japanese culture; incorporating such things as honor, rigid class structures, and martial arts (and ninja clans). The cat-men have little contact with Mystara/Mystarra except for the kingdom of Ochlea (with whom they share some culttural similarities) and the surface-bound Rakasha kingdom of Bellatyne (based on post-Ren. England). > (Proposed) > Alphaita Belt -or- Cluster: This belt is the remains from the > home world of the Alphaitians. Which was destroyed by their magics > long ago. (In gazzetter time (2000+ years previous) AC 1001). Their > world was destroyed leaving only origianlly a cluster of large rocks > and debris. But after several thousand years the orbital track of > the world created what is today known as the Alphaita Belt. > The larger rock bodies contain slim air atmospheres, but little if > no vegitation. If one looks hard enough through the belt they will > come across the lairs of powerful wizards. These are wizards that > survived the catalysm and have since rebuilt strong holds amoung the > debris. These are always one of two type of wizards. Either a Fire > wizard or a Air Wizard. Alphatia was a world apart, a special place infused with an unbalance of Thought and Energy influence. Their plane was similar to Mystara/Mystarra's but the 'void' itself was breathable and had very strong solar currents. [qv. M1- Into the Maelstrom] HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 17:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mystara] Posting to the MMl On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, D.J. Sahlas wrote: > Greetings, once again! I'm assuming the temporary moratorium on > messages has been repealed (since I've seen a few messages trickle > through) . Nooo!!! Please, I must ask that no one post to the MML yet. The problems have not been fixed. At the moment, it is out of my hands. I am waiting for a reply from the SysAdmin at io.com. Hopefully this can be fixed by the end of the week, but he appears to be ignoring me (but then again, he could just be a busy guy). I understnad the frustration, but please hang in there. Leroy Van Camp III | "Another slave and a victim of fate, | another lesson in hate." van891@uidaho.edu | Ministry ------------------------------ From: jknotts@seldon.terminus.com Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 17:46:14 -0700 Subject: [Mystara] Did you get Immortals? Well met, Has anyone received my bio and listing of Immortals? Please respond. John ------------------------------ From: jknotts@seldon.terminus.com Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 18:03:49 -0700 Subject: [Mystara] My Bio--more to follow Welcome Mystarans, I'm John Knotts--a 29 year old member of the Air Force who has been involved in fantasy roleplaying since high school. I've played everything--personally, I'm not very happy with all of AD&D's rules, but I've found the Skills and Powers book very interesting. On Mystara--I've taken to this system like a duck to water! Long ago, I used to collect the Gaz accessories, but gave up soon after I started. I bought the Karameikos boxed set (new) and suddenly doors started opening. Now, I've done a great deal of research and still not complete. I'm looking for Gaz 3 (The Principalities of Galantri), 5 (The Elves of Alfheim),9 (The Minrothad Guilds), and TM1 (The Western Countries). I also plan on purchasing the newest two Mystara products for my birthday (Oct 11). I'm interested in everything there is on the Known World. I'm not interested in Hollow World or Spelljammer just yet! I have the PC series, the rest of the Gaz, the Poor Wizard's books, Heroes boxed set, Dawn of the Emperors, and even a copy of every Voyage of the Princess Article from the Dragon. I'm researching every shread of history available to build effective resources which TSR just won't provide! I also have both the books out in print on Mystara. If anyone has any questions for me I'd be glad to research the answer for them. Now, on to my newest project--The Immortals. Next mailing is a compiled (to date) list of what several books have to say about the known Immortals of the Known World. I plan to develop specialty priest, yet I need help and guidance, both in fleshing out these Immortals and defining their abilities and what they convey to priests! HELP! Next is my list--enjoy and write! ------------------------------ From: jknotts@seldon.terminus.com Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 18:03:55 -0700 Subject: [Mystara] Immortals Part I THE NATURE OF IMMORTALS This is a compilation of how Mystaran Immortals are viewed by the various cultures. Please assist me by adding any additional views you have found. Also, I would like to develop specialty priests for each of these Immortals. ALPHAKS Thyatian: This Patron of Pure Evil causes death, destruction, and misery; his sect is illegal within the Empire, but it is still popular; it appeals to chaotics who hate Alphatia, because it is part of the dogma of the Alphaks that Alphatia Must Be Destroyed. Sphere of Death; Chaotic. Alphatian: Though he is considered to be the destroyer of the First Empire and hated throughout Alphatia, Alphaks is followed by some chaotic clerics and magi-users of evil disposition. His presence has only been felt in the last couple of centuries; before that, it is assumed he was following the path to Immortality and then, perhaps, having a difficult time finding the descendants of the original Alphatians. His followers intend to help destroy the Alphatian Empire; for this reason, this sect is outlawed, and ruthlessly purged by the Empire whenever encountered. Alphaks I was emperor and led to the destruction of the Alphatian home world Alphatia. He led the Followers of Flame against the Followers of Air during the Year of Scouring. Those he led, banished him when they lost the war to the Air Wizards. Karameikos: An evil Immortal devoted to the destruction of Alphatia, Alphaks continues to meddle with the sinking of that island continent. He is known as the Roaring Fiend, and his symbol is a horned skull against a phoenix-like flame. ASTERIUS Thyatian: He is the Patron of Trade and Commerce, and merchants pray to him. He is also the Patron of Thievery, and so, many of the devotions left in his temples are contributed by thieves. Sphere of Thought; Neutral. Karameikos: The Patron of Trade, Merchants, and Thieves, Asterius is naturally venerated by caravan travelers, merchants, and robbers. His symbol is the moon. DIULANNA Thyatian: Patroness of Will. This Hinterlands Immortal, whom the Thyatians are now eagerly studying, represents the belief that with enough willpower and determination, one can achieve anything. It is she who grants victory (or at least honor) to the hero who throws himself against impossible odds. Sphere of Thought; Neutral. HALAV Thyatian: Patron of Warfare and Weapon Making. he was a hero to the native Karameikans of the ancient past; their king, he taught his people to forge bronze, then led them against invading beast-men. To the Thyatians, he exemplifies the teacher, who is also a warrior. Sphere of Thought; Lawful. Karameikos: An Immortal of warfare, Halav is one of three major Immortals venerated by the Traladaran people. He and the others (Petra, the warrior priest; and Zirchez of the forest) have priests dedicated to their name in both of Karameikos major churches. ILSUNDAL Thyatian: Patron of Elvenkind. His ways are followed by the elves in Thyatis, and by their friends, the Foresters, and by a few humans who have an affinity for the ways of the forest and nature. Sphere of Energy; Neutral. Karameikos: The Patron of Elves, Ilsundal's name is recognized among the various eleven peoples. Other elven heroes and heroines have become Immortals for smaller followings. MEALINDEN Thyatian: Ilsundal is guarded and aided by Mealiden, a later elf-king who is said to have achieved Immortality. KAGYAR Thyatian: Patron of Artisans, Patron of Dwarvenkind. His ways are followed by the dwarves in Thyatis, and by many races who have artistic learning abilities. Sphere of Matter; Lawful. Karameikos: The Patron of Dwarvish Peoples and believed to be their creator, Kagyar is the archtypical craftsman venerated by the dwarves. ------------------------------ From: jknotts@seldon.terminus.com Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 18:04:09 -0700 Subject: [Mystara] Immortals Part III ZIRCHEV Alphatian: This Immortal concerns himself with animals and monsters of all kinds; he promotes the study of beasts, of observance of nature, and the preservation of woods and animal-kind. He is studied and worshipped by some elves and by many clerics, magic-users, shamans, and wiccas of the Nation of Limn and the City of Trollhattan. Sphere of Energy; Neutral. AL-KALIM Karameikos: The Patron of the Eternal Truth and the Desert Garden, Al-Kalim has only recently attained his Immortality. He is closely connected with the people of Ylaruam, from whom he arose. He penned the Nahmeh, tome by which the Ylari devote their lives. ATRUAGHIN Karameikos: An Immortal who has given his name to the people of the Atruaghin Plateau, Atruaghin is in turn served by other, lesser Immortals. BOZDOGAN Karameikos: An Immortal of Lies, Half-truths, Deception, and Politicians, Bozdogan enjoys being the object of far-off Hule's main faith, which has raised treachery to an art form. GREAT ONE Karameikos: Immortal of All The Dragons, Great One is served by three other Immortal Dragons: Diamond (lawful dragons), Pearl (chaotic dragons), and Opal (neutral dragons). IXION Karameikos: An Immortal of the Sun, Ixion's symbol is the flaming wheel. he is seen as a force in opposition to evil such as Alphaks. MINROTH Karameikos: Minroth is another Patron of Prosperity, but in this case, of the Minrothad Guilds, which venerate his name. RAD Karameikos: While the Galantrians dislike religion in general and priests in particular, they do have an embodiment of the source of magic, known as the Radiance. Rad was the personification and control of this force, but has not been heard from since the recent War of the Immortals, which caused the disappearance of Alphatia and the appearance of the Great Crater. His whereabouts are unknown. RAFIEL Karameikos: Patron of the Shadow Elves, little is known of Rafiel save that the Shadow Elves are his chosen people, and his symbol is a book with a star on the cover. TURBAK Karameikos: The Patron of Law and Order among the Ethengarian peoples, Turbak is a harsh, but fair Immortal. Other Ethengarian Immortals are Yamuga (Patroness of Prosperity and Renewal) and Cretia (Patroness of Jokes and Punishment). VALERIAS Karameikos: The Patroness of Romance and Passion, Valerias' name is evoked by Thyatians and others in the name of love. Her symbol is the thorny rose, symbolizing beauty and its threat. FAUNUS (INUUS or LUPERCUS) Wee Folk: Patron of Herding, Hunting, and Husbandry (especially sheep herding), and the possible inventor of poetry. Those who honor him, seeking his assistance, celebrate two winter festivals, the Faunalia, in his honor. On these days, the country folk sacrifice goats, wine, and milk, and hold various games. Faunus may send his followers prophecies by the sounds of the forest or by dreams. TALLIVARI, THE ROOT MAKER Aquatic Elves: In Immortal of the Aquarendi. TERRA Special: Senior Patron of the Natural World. Fond of dragons and sponsored the only dragon Immortal, The Great One. Those of this order revere open mindedness above others and although primarily elvish, other races do belong. THE CAUSE Special: There are clerical orders which serve a cause rather than one of the Immortals. Yet, Immortals sympathetic to their cause will often grant them powers. ------------------------------ From: Jason MURPHY Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 09:53:11 +0000 (CUT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sphere layout of Mystara Space > Mystara-Moon 1:(Name Matera "Mother") a dead planetoid (much like > luna), only form of life is the planar-pocket on the > sun-side (ie. facing away from Mystara/Mystarra). > This pocket holds Pandius, a neutral meeting site for > those OD&D Immortals/Gods and their servants who are > interested in Mystara/Mystarra and the Hollow World. > I believe that X5 Temple of Death had a well within a series of caves. This well created a staircase during a full moon. The staircase could transport PC's to the visible moon, where a vary scantily detailed kingdom was supposed to exist. Basically the details were intended to be fleshed out by the GM. I just thought i would add this while we were on the subject. Jason ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 23:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sphere layout of Mystara Space On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, Jason MURPHY wrote: > I believe that X5 Temple of Death had a well within a series of caves. > This well created a staircase during a full moon. The staircase could > transport PC's to the visible moon, where a vary scantily detailed > kingdom was supposed to exist. Basically the details were intended to be > fleshed out by the GM. > > I just thought i would add this while we were on the subject. I think it was actually less that a scantily detailed kingdom. I seem to recall it giving a few examples of what might be there (e.g. monsters, a kingdom made of green cheese, etc.) but ultimately saying nothing about what IS there at all, leaving it all up to the DM. Anyway, a kingdom would work, but I think it would be neat if it led to Pandius, the City of the Immortals. An especially neat way to enable PCs to reach the Immortals as part of some high-level quest where they need to petition them (or one of them) or something. Heck, one could use X5 as some starting material to make finding, reaching, and using the Well of the Moon part of the adventure for a PC discovering and petitioning for Immortality. Instead of a mountain top (the classic example given in the OD&D rules), one or more Immortals could require that prospective candidates find how to reach them on Pandius and petition them at their embassy! Just more thoughts... --Azure a.k.a. David Leland v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v ------------------------------ From: rogers@bbs.tde.com Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 08:54:48 -0700 Subject: [Mystara] [MYSTARA] RE: VESTLAN > From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) > I am currently running a campaign in Vestland, and I have a barbarian > amoung others, so I decided to run a modified "Crown on ancient > Glory". I Need some help or thoughts on how it came about. > Human Barbarian-Witch Doctor(Raise a pack of wolves he killed by > accident) One of your players had a wish and he used it to rectify a mistake he had made? This sounds like a terrific player to me ... did you reward this unselfish decision with an XP bonus? > -I can have the king die anyways (same effect on time) > -I can have it be a trap to lure the mage(party) to waiting foes > -I can have them save the king (very changed time line) I would give them a fair chance of recovering the crown and restoring the monarchy of Vestland. Of course, if they plan on going back to the future, this serious change in the past could have unforeseen results in the PCs own lives. > What happens if they try to get magic items they know where will > be 50 years from now? If they know where the magic items were 50 years ago, does that mean they retrieved them in the future? If so, the PCs will change their own past by taking the items again. This could also have unforeseen results -- for example, if a PC takes a magic sword in the year 975 which he already found in the year 1025, the copy the PC took in 1025 would disappear. (Also, any combat the PC used the 1025 sword in might have a changed result -- the PC could've died in a past battle because he didn't have the 1025 sword during it!). If the players fool around with their own pasts, you ought to be able to dissuade them pretty easily with the effects they cause. > What happens if they try to meet their parents/gand parents, or in > case of elves(by wording of wish they were transported also) meet > themselves. > -I like the 'Time cop' logic that they cannot touch themselves or > they will be destroyed Why would a person not be able to touch a past version of themselves without exploding? The Timecop logic seems like a poor way of handling the situation. Let them mess with their ancestors -- maybe they'll do something that causes their grandparents or parents never to have children! > If all gets too weird I will have a time lord come and replace > them back in their own time stream, but they might make a few > changes? You've got a great chance to change your campaign around here. If the PCs take actions which change the past, it could greatly alter the future they return to. Fun stuff for a DM! Rogers Cadenhead ... Internet: rogers@pobox.com ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 15:02:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mystara] This is a test This is just a test. Please don't respond. Orion | When you shoot at some body over no provocation, owner-mystara-l@io.com | I mean when you.. when uh... when uh... when I - -----------------------/ didn't say nothin' to the man, I didn't pull out no gun and tell him I'm going to do this to him, shoot him, and never had worked with the man before, and he just shoots at me, that's a pretty radical group right there, if you ask me. - F.L.A ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #1 *************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #2 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, 5 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 002 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orion Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 19:05:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mystara] The MML is back up! Finally, the Mystara Mailing List is back up, and seems to be running properly. Feel free to post away. Hopefully this will be the last of such major problems. Orion owner-mystara-l@io.com ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 20:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, D.J. Sahlas wrote: > > The Mystara FAQ > > This shouldn't hard (hopefully). Whenever someone comes up with a > > good question, we'll add it. I will probably start work on this before > > too long. > > An excellent suggestion. I'd be willing to write an "evolution > of Mystara" section - I have everything T$R ever published on the > subject. Actually, I was thinking of a whole seperate project that lists, rates and describes everything available for Mystara. Perhaps, if someone was willing to type in a list of such products, we could distribute it and have every member evaluate each product, then total it all up. What does everyone think? > > Mystara Index > > The Known World is spread through out a large number of supplements, > > making it difficult at times to know if you have all available information > > at hand. > > A good solution would be complete indexes of every Mystara product out > > their. > > Now, if this was done by one person, it would be a monumental task. > > But, if each person on the list took one product and indexed it, the work > > load would be spread out. These individual indices could then be > > compiled. > > Great, when do we start? As soon as people start signing up for the product they wish to index. Feel free to volunteer at any time. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Another slave and a victim of of fate, another lesson in hate." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Burning Inside ------------------------------ From: Andrew Theisen Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:13:29 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects What exactly is considered one product? I mean, I would be interested in coveri ng the gazetteer line, but that consists of, like, 14 gazetteers and one boxed set. ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Andrew Theisen wrote: > What exactly is considered one product? I mean, I would be interested in coveri > ng the gazetteer line, but that consists of, like, 14 gazetteers and one boxed > set. I mean one single, individual product. For example, one person could volunteer to index GAZ1 Grand Duchy of Karameikos, while another could do GAZ2 Emirates of Ylaruam. If enough people volunteer, we can start kicking around ideas on format, and such. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: trung p nguyen Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Product Inquiry: Champions of Mystara What is this box set about and, in your opinion, is it worth the $12 I'm figuring to spend on it? whir@wam.umd.edu ------------------------------ From: AEVF56A@prodigy.com (MR SHELBY J MICHLIN) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 20:52:34 EDT Subject: [Mystara] Bio, Responses Hi, Let me begin with my bio (sorry it's so late). I'm 34, with a background in psychology and education (I taught Emotionally Disturbed children for five years, with five years of graduate work in education) . Now I'm an executive in a telecommunications company. I've been role- playing since I was in high school, and began my AD&D campaign while in college about fifteen years ago; it's the same campaign I run to this day. I began playing AD&D, and still use 1st Ed exclusively. I based my campaign in the Judges Guild City State world. Arneson published First Fantasy Campaign as a Judges Guild product, detailing his Blackmoor campaign and placing it adjacent to the Judges Guild world maps, so I incorporated it. When the Blackmoor D&D modules came out, I decided my world becomes the Mystara of the Gazeteers in the future, after the Blackmoor explosions (also marking the creation of the "Hollow World"). Many changes, details, purchases etc later, I detailed two periods of history for adventuring (although this is still unknown to my players, most of whom have been involved from the beginning), the Ancient World of the City State campaign and Blackmoor, and the Modern World of the Gazeteer era. This includes Spelljammer information for both time periods, and much thought on time travel (and what the hell, I'll tell you) the old C&S supplement "Saurians" also figures prominently in the history. I've had parties in both time periods, although Spelljamming only in the Modern World's crystal sphere, which I've titled "Titansphere." I'd be happy to go into detail if there is any interest. I might be interested in the "indexing" project, if I can get a better idea of what's involved, and if I can do either aspects I've mentioned above, and/or the Glantri Gazeteer, my personal favorite. RE: Champions of Mystara, I feel it is worth $12, especially if you don't own the Dragon Magazine series. It has nice maps, interesting background, and adventure ideas. I did find the Ierendi Gazeteer a bit "lighter" than my taste, but I would hesitate to change too much. I recall it having some possibilities... I'm interested in joining the Spelljammer mailing list, if someone would post how to join... That's it for now; be seeing you! Shelby ------------------------------ From: Ghostgames@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 09:43:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Product Inquiry: Champions of Mystara >>What is this box set about and, in your opinion, is it worth the $12 I'm figuring to spend on it? whir@wam.umd.edu<< If you can get it for $12, go for it -- it usually retails for $20. "Champions of Mystara" contains three books: "Explorer's Manual" presents information on The Great Waste, Sind, the Serpent Peninsula (including the Divinarchy of Yavdlom), and two cultures never heard of before (Graakhalia, elves and gnolls living in an underground realm beneath the Great Waste; and Ulimwengu, a community of pigmies who have a *lot* of magic). "Designer's Manual" presents information on using magical skyships in your campaigns, including guidelines for designing skyships, building skyships (how long it takes in game terms, etc.), and using skyships. There's some information on taking skyships beyond the skyshield (to Myoshima, etc.), too. Then there's the "World Maker's Guide" -- advice and guidelines on creating new worlds or cultures for the player characters to explore. "Heroes of the Princess Ark" reprints much of the "Princess Ark" material that appeared in DRAGON Magazine, and adds specific information on using the Princess Ark in your own campaign. Then there are two poster maps detailing the Great Waste and the Serpent Peninsula (the two can be put together, as they're the same scale) and two poster maps detailing the Princess Ark deck plans in 25mm scale (i.e. for miniatures). Then there are 8 card sheets with deck plans and information for different skyships (an Alphatian Man-O-War, an Alphatian yacht, an Oostdock Airship, a Light Heldannic Warbird, etc.), with color pictures of them on the flip side. And, yes, I think it's worth the money -- but then I wrote it! ;-) Ann Dupuis ghostgames@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 11:25:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] PWAs and Rheddrian/Benekander Greetings Mystarans, I was wondering whether anyone else who has WotI (Wrath of the Immortals) and any of the PWAs (Poor Wizard's Almanacs) wonders what ever happened to Benekander, i.e. why he has not been involved in any "Current Events." When that Immortal Gareth (was that its name?) showed up and getting heroes to join the cause of Immortal non-interference, it reminded me of Benekander's absence. I wonder, though, whether this new Immortal is really an alias for Benekander..wouldn't that be interesting. Well, since it seems that the person who wrote PWAIII is among us, perhaps she can say something about Benekander's absence? :) --Azure a.k.a. David Leland v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v ------------------------------ From: * PF15 UNDEFINED Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 13:49:02 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Product Inquiry: Champions of Mystara Champions of Mystara is a boxed set that covers areas of Mystara introduced in the Princess Ark series of articles from Dragon magazine. It reprints most of t he articles on the savage coast from that series, starting with the Princess Ar k's adventures in Sind. It also goes far more into detail on Sind, the Yavdlom Divinarchy, the Lengwu? kingdom (a hitherto unknown kingdom) and the plains of fire, all presented in a gazetteer-like format. It also features rules on creat ing and utilizing airships, as well as a complete picture of the Princess Ark, crew stats, a diagram of the ship, etc. Well worth the $12 I think, even if you do own all of the Princess Ark series of Dragon mags(which I do.) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Hollow WorldQ-Burrowers In my current campaign, in the Hollow World, the party recently defeated a group of Kogolor rebels(due to a burrower near the Southern Kogolor lands. Now, has anyone come up with any info on burrowers, as the dwarven PC, a patriotic type, is on a search for the cause of this disturbance. The Hollow World rulebooks give little help on this topic. They simply say burrowers have the power to influence close-ranged mortal minds. Is there any way to avoid this control, or to kill a burrower by any rules? Also, if someone approaches the Tower of Soth/Sekhaba, is the PC gonna automatically fall under control of the burrower/tower? ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:20:02 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] PWAs and Rheddrian/Benekander On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, David 'Azure' Leland wrote: > I was wondering whether anyone else who has WotI (Wrath of the > Immortals) and any of the PWAs (Poor Wizard's Almanacs) wonders what ever > happened to Benekander, i.e. why he has not been involved in any "Current > Events." When that Immortal Gareth (was that its name?) showed up and > getting heroes to join the cause of Immortal non-interference, it > reminded me of Benekander's absence. I wonder, though, whether this new > Immortal is really an alias for Benekander..wouldn't that be > interesting. Well, since it seems that the person who wrote PWAIII is > among us, perhaps she can say something about Benekander's absence? :) Although I haven't read any official word on the subject, I am fairly certain on the reason why. With the AD&D edition of Mystara, TSR is "sanitizing" the Known World of all references to advanced technology, such as the origins of the Nucleus of the Spheres and The Great Rain of Fire. And since Benekander was formerly an engineer on a spaceship, he has been tossed out. If we ever see another edition of GAZ13, they will probably change the Shadow Elves Secret Project to something else. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:08:10 AST Subject: [Mystara] Shadow Elves (was Re: Rheddrian/Benekander) > Although I haven't read any official word on the subject, I am fairly > certain on the reason why. With the AD&D edition of Mystara, TSR is > "sanitizing" the Known World of all references to advanced technology, > such as the origins of the Nucleus of the Spheres and The Great Rain of > Fire. And since Benekander was formerly an engineer on a spaceship, he > has been tossed out. > If we ever see another edition of GAZ13, they will probably change the > Shadow Elves Secret Project to something else. On a related note, I hated the Shadow Elf role as it was presented in the WotI. In GAZ 13 it said that Rafiel and his shamans were resigned to living underground (they realized that they had adapted to their environment and _couldn't_ really live on the surface). It was the King and company (his daughter, the General and the possessed spymaster) who insisted that Alfheim be destroyed, but even then it was mainly because of the snub that occurred when the Shadow Elves first discovered Alfheim. In WotI Rafiel is transformed from the obsessed nuclear physicist- turned-god to a drooling surface hater hell-bent on the desctruction of the surface races. From the way he is written up in gazetteer I don't think he would have even gotten involved in the war (he was of the school of thought that you don't draw attention to yourself). A solution: In my game, Rafiel isn't involved withthe War... at least until the King (influenced by Atzanteotl) invades Alfheim. The death of the forest was caused by another, outside force. Thge result is a bloody civil war underground, with the Shamans fleeing the destrcution the Refuge of Stone with whatever Soul Crystals they could. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hollow WorldQ-Burrowers On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > In my current campaign, in the Hollow World, the party recently defeated > a group of Kogolor rebels(due to a burrower near the Southern Kogolor > lands. Now, has anyone come up with any info on burrowers, as the > dwarven PC, a patriotic type, is on a search for the cause of this > disturbance. The Hollow World rulebooks give little help on this topic. > They simply say burrowers have the power to influence close-ranged mortal > minds. Is there any way to avoid this control, or to kill a burrower by > any rules? Also, if someone approaches the Tower of Soth/Sekhaba, is > the PC gonna automatically fall under control of the burrower/tower? There is a little bit about a particular burrower in DDA2 Legions of Thyatis, where one such creature dominates a magic-user who plots to free his 'master.' --Azure a.k.a. David Leland v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:55:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elves (was Re: Rheddrian/Benekander) On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Nightshade wrote: > On a related note, I hated the Shadow Elf role as it was presented in > the WotI. In GAZ 13 it said that Rafiel and his shamans were > resigned to living underground (they realized that they had adapted > to their environment and _couldn't_ really live on the surface). It > was the King and company (his daughter, the General and the possessed > spymaster) who insisted that Alfheim be destroyed, but even then it > was mainly because of the snub that occurred when the Shadow Elves > first discovered Alfheim. > > In WotI Rafiel is transformed from the obsessed nuclear physicist- > turned-god to a drooling surface hater hell-bent on the desctruction > of the surface races. From the way he is written up in gazetteer I > don't think he would have even gotten involved in the war (he was of > the school of thought that you don't draw attention to yourself). Glad to see I'm not the only one who was displeased with this. I can't help but think the author, Aarron Allston, had Drow on the brain when he wrote this part. Except for a small minority, I view most Shadow Elves as happy with their present living conditions. > A solution: In my game, Rafiel isn't involved withthe War... at > least until the King (influenced by Atzanteotl) invades Alfheim. The > death of the forest was caused by another, outside force. Thge > result is a bloody civil war underground, with the Shamans fleeing > the destrcution the Refuge of Stone with whatever Soul Crystals they > could. My solution is to not integrate the Wrath of the Immortals into my Mystara. This isn't to say that I won't run a modified version of it some day, but I have yet to fully explore all the possibilities of Mystara as it is now, much less after a world shaking war. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:57:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mystara] Wrath of the Immortals After seeing a few posts relating to it, a question came to mind... How many people on the list have ran or integrated WotI into their cqmpaigns, modified or otherwise? Just curious. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:06:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hollow WorldQ-Burrowers On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, David 'Azure' Leland wrote: > There is a little bit about a particular burrower in DDA2 Legions > of Thyatis, where one such creature dominates a magic-user who plots to > free his 'master.' Due to their description and powers, I have always related the Burrowers to Cthulhu and the other Great Old Ones from H.P. Lovecraft's body of work, as well as the Call of Cthulhu RPG. I am fairly certain this was Allston's inspiration. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:47:22 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Wrath of the Immortals > After seeing a few posts relating to it, a question came to mind... > How many people on the list have ran or integrated WotI into their > cqmpaigns, modified or otherwise? > Just curious. I am right now at 1004-1005 in my chronicle (to use the White Wolf/Ars Magica term). On the surface it looks a lot like the presentation of WotI, with a few exceptions: - the lines aren't as cut and dried as they are presented. The various 'groups' don't get together and say 'now, we have to decide wether we side with a or b". Every goddess and god (I dislike the theological marketing neutral) has her or his own reasons to get involved. - related to the above, a lot more gods and goddesses are involved. ex. The Traladar gods are making their move to reclaim Karameikos via a paladin of Petra instigating a civil war near Luln. - a little more conflict. This is a old-fashioned, midieval war. There is rape, desertion, pain, anger, betrayal, genocide, and more or less a sense of 'total war'. Adventurers are harrassed as they pass through borders, they get drafted into armies, in essence life is disrupted. The aftermath (that I've more or less already envisioned) is a little more drastic. Alphatia's gone, Thyatis is crippled, Glantri battle-scarred, Darokin devastated. The war doesn't just end, smaller conflicts last several more years yet. I guess that last part brings up something specific to WotI. When it was first mentioned it was referred to as a 30 year long conflict, a total environment for campaigning from level 1 to 36. I would have preferred this. The information in the actual adventures was scanty and seemed rushed. Even with magic and gods running around, time is a definate element. For example, do you know how long it takes to get from Darokin City to Alpha, weather notwithstanding? Almost two years. Armies don't just appear on the battlefield, there is no airlifts, no rapid deployment. (I did however leave in several 'mythic' elements, like the Heldannic overnight ride through Rockholme and the Alan Tepes to flank and smash Thar's force sieged in the Great Crater.) My two kopecs. Nightshade Email: GNKGP@StThomasU.Ca ------------------------------ From: "Chrysdelarius" Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 15:54:56 -0600, MDT Subject: [Mystara] Novels I am curious if anyone has integrated any aspects of the TSR novels that have been set in Mystara so far. There have been five novels so far, with a sixth to be released in November. The first three are the Penhaligon Trilogy about Flain Flinn and Johauna Menhir. The next two are the first two books in the Dragonlord Trilogy, set approx. 300 years before Wrath of the Immortals (the third is due out in Summer '96). Due out in November is DARK KNIGHT OF KARAMEIKOS, the first book in a new series. What aspects did you integrate into your campaigns, if any? This might also be a good forum for critiques of the books as well. On a related note, does anyone know if there have been any ENDLESS QUEST books (or other similar type books) set in Mystara? Chrydelarius zubebria@lcs.isu.edu ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #2 *************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #3 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, 12 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 003 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:34:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Wrath of the Immortals On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, Orion wrote: > How many people on the list have ran or integrated WotI into their > campaigns, modified or otherwise? Well, I run 2 campaigns: The first is 14-15 years running, and it incorporated all of the published material as it came out. I have not run WotI in that one because it is set around 1200 AC (when the gazetteers say that the War of the Master occurred). The second is based around the gazetteers, and incorporated them as they came out (so about 8-9 years). It was set around 1000 AC, and WotI came out just as the party was early companion level in 1004 (the campain started around 995 AC, and considerable time was spent in Blackmoor). So I incorporated WotI in that one. But this left me with a problem: when campaign #2 started, it was ostensibly set in the past of my first campaign, so the War of the Master was already accounted for in my timeline. Actually, let me digress a bit here. One of my pet peeves about Aaron Alstead (sp?) is that he has little respect for previously published material. Countless examples abound: changing the Keep on the Borderlands and the Valley of Haven in the Karameikos gazetteer, the aforementioned WotI crossover with Red Arrow, Black Shield, even the whole bloody Hollow World for Pete's sake. Other authors don't do this: Bruce Heard incorporated rather than dismissed the d'Ambervilles from Castle Amber, and with excellent results! I've always had to think up inventive little ways to sidestep this iconoclastic streak: with the Karameikos gazetteer it was easy: I simply decided that the Keep and the Valley changed over 200 years to their presentation in the modules in my timeline. But WotI presented a real problem. So, basically, the war of the desert nomads in my campaign is the Master's first foray into the East. 200 years later he consolidates his power and makes a real go of it (the Desert Nomads modules) but in 1005 AC he has not yet started his quest for immortality. He may have even travelled in time 200 years to attack Darokin soon after his initial defeat as chronicled in WotI. Well, there you have it, (explaining away that huge crater is still a problem, but I have other ideas up my sleeves for that one). Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Novels On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, Chrysdelarius wrote: > I am curious if anyone has integrated any aspects of the TSR > novels that have been set in Mystara so far. There have been > five novels so far, with a sixth to be released in November. > > What aspects did you integrate into your campaigns, if any? > This might also be a good forum for critiques of the books > as well. Well, I haven't yet integrated anything into my campaign, but as for a critique: The first book of the Penhaligon trilogy was moderately interesting but rather poorly written. The second book was the worst novel I have ever read. The third (written by a different author) was also quite interesting, and not too badly written, either. The Dragonlord of Mystara was actually very interesting, if only a little rough around the edges. No mammoth of literature but a fairly satisfactory read from the Mystara perspective. I am just now reading the second novel (Dragonking ...) and find it even better than the first. I'm not sure I'll buy the other Karameikos book. > > On a related note, does anyone know if there have been any > ENDLESS QUEST books (or other similar type books) set in > Mystara? Not to my knowledge (with a fairly complete set). I did set them throughout the map on the inside covers of the old Companion DMs book, along with all the other little adventures which just didn't fit in "the Known World" (bonus question: where does the River Shrill run?) Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 19:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Novels Greetings, I read the first two of the Penhaligon trilogy and found the first to be poor and the second to be lame. I didn't bother buying the third book. I was sorely disappointed that except for certain place names (and precious few, at that) the books have nothing at all to do with Mystara and could just as well (actually, BETTER) have been set elsewhere. Who's going to have a name like Fain Flinn in Karameikos? It's neither a Thyatian (Byzantine) name, nor a Traladran (Balkans) name. Same goes for the rest. And while I got really excited about these folk from another world mentioned on the back of the second book, I thought it was going to have to do with the Alphatians! That would have been neat, but no go. I haven't touched the dragonwhatever books. Do they have anything to do with Mystara? --Azure a.k.a. David Leland v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Novels On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, Chrysdelarius wrote: > What aspects did you integrate into your campaigns, if any? > This might also be a good forum for critiques of the books > as well. I was unfortunate enough to have read the first two Penhaligon books, and it really begged the question: Did the author ever bother to read _any_ Mystara source material, or did he simply use the map of Karameikos? Except for a few familiar names (Specularum, Penhaligon), these books had almost nothing to do with Mystara. A generic medieval knighthood in a Russo-Slavic/Byzantine-Roman country? Give me a break. As for the other Mystara books, I haven't read them. Do they have a more solid connection? Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Cthulhu, eh? I'll try and backstab him" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 19:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mystara] REPOST: Group Projects The following was posted a while back, but there has been quite a few new subscribers, so I thought I would repost it. If you have any interest in these, e-mail me and we'll get things started. We can iron out details, and such. The following is a list of projects that the Mailing List might work on together. It's certainly not complete, nor are all the ideas of equal value. Feedback is both welcome and desired. If we can gather enough material, we can start putting out netbooks. The Mystara FAQ This shouldn't hard (hopefully). Whenever someone comes up with a good question, we'll add it. I will probably start work on this before too long. Mystara Index The Known World is spread through out a large number of supplements, making it difficult at times to know if you have all available information at hand. A good solution would be complete indexes of every Mystara product out their. Now, if this was done by one person, it would be a monumental task. But, if each person on the list took one product and indexed it, the work load would be spread out. These individual indices could then be compiled. Alternate Ierendis Am I the only one who though the Ierendi Gazetteer to be a cruel, and unfunny, joke? If I am, then this project has no merit. But if others out there have come up with their own versions of this country, it would be nice to see them in print. I will be submitting mine to the list, eventually. New Gazetteers Wouldn't it be nice to have Gazetteers on some of the countries that T$R gave us little detail of? The two that spring to mind are Wendar and Heldann Freeholds. Writing complete Gazetteers would be no small feat, but it could be a group project. Mystaraspace I don't know how many people on the list are also Spelljammer fans (I recognized two names from the SJML), but for those that are, working up a crystal sphere for Mystara would be cool. It would take a bit of explanation on how things like the Alphatian migration, or the crashed ship in Blackmoor, tied in. Tourist Guides For those not familiar with them, T$R puts out supplements for Forgotten Realms called the Volo's Guide series. Each is a book dedicated to the sites and locales in a certain city or area of the Realms, such as taverns, inns, stores, ruins, and castles. I feel such information for Mystara would be of great help to a GM. It wouldn't be that hard, either. Each person could claim one city or town and detail such establishments. They could then be grouped according to country, giving the Tourist's Guide to Karameikos, and so on. Rumors and Adventure Seeds A simple project that could be ongoing, this would just be a compilation of adventure ideas that people post. This would be especially easy for those who are currently running a campaign in Mystara. They could just post the occasional plot summary. New Races Any one who has perused the pages of the Creature Catalog or the Mystara Monstrous Compendium can probably find at least a dozen races that would be suitable for PC's. For example, the rakasta is a standard race in my own campaigns (although different than the way they are presented in the Princess Ark series.) Whether in AD&D or D&D format, such new races would be nice. Specialty Priests of the Immortals For those who play in Mystara using AD&D, having the information on specialtiy priests would be damn handy. I have made up a few myself, and will submit them. Standard Stuff (Spells, Kits, Monsters, Magic Items, NPC's, etc) Such things are always welcome on the list. Whether they were put into the netbook would depend on how closely tied to Mystara they were. ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:32:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Novels > > I am curious if anyone has integrated any aspects of the TSR > novels that have been set in Mystara so far. There have been I have added the basics from both books. I have placed the Penhaligon book also in the past (as one of the dragons came out with all the location of the current known dragons) So verideth with the advent of verideth I placed the whole scenario in the past. This also makes sense because I do not recall the School of magic in Kerameikos that was destroyed. Thus they give a little more background for my world. The dragonlord books I have also placed in. I am having problems placing the Blackmoor castle where the armor was found, but using the Tree of Life module(Elves) I am assuming that this was the city where they rainbow ended. Thus it would be north of the city along the mountain range. The city of dargons fits nicly north of Landfall in the mountains. Just my thoughts Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 13:20:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Novels On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Joseph DuBois wrote: > The dragonlord books I have also placed in. I am having > problems placing the Blackmoor castle where the armor was > found, but using the Tree of Life module(Elves) I am assuming > that this was the city where they rainbow ended. Thus it would > be north of the city along the mountain range. The city of > dargons fits nicly north of Landfall in the mountains. Could you give a little more info on these dragon books, without "spoiling" them of course? It seems that a good number of people on the list don't know how good/bad they are nor how well they tie into actual Mystara stuff. Thanks! :) --Azure a.k.a. David Leland v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 13:45:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Novels > > Could you give a little more info on these dragon books, without > "spoiling" them of course? It seems that a good number of people on the > list don't know how good/bad they are nor how well they tie into actual > Mystara stuff. Thanks! :) I liked them better then the previous Mystara books. They were not up to par with other novels(eg: FR) but not bad overall. I liked them alot because they gave details about mystara. I love the world so any new inforamtion I grab. The first book. Dragon Lord(I believe) is about a group of adventurers that have to protect Glantri (and rest of world) for rogue dragons. The describe a dragon city that is far to the north hidden from man kind. If I recall correctly they have renamed the cities in glantri, but if this is suppose to be 300 years earlier, then they could have been called something else. They basically roam around the upper countries(Glantri/Ethengar) to try to defeat the rogue dragons. The better of the two books. The second book. Dragon King is later on about the same people and how new problems are arising. They visit Alphiem, but no new info about it. They also get the other countries involved because of a war with the dragons. It has a surprise ending which I don't like, but what can you do. The third and final book in the series is to be Arch Dragon Mage (or something close). I am hoping that this book will detail more of the dragon city. This is to be released in 1996. Maybe we could design the dragon city our selves along with the dragon kingdoms. (Dragon kingdoms are ruled by the dragons, rogue dragons do not belong to any kingdom). Another thought I would like the group to consider is detailing more about the ancient kingdom of Blackmoor. This would allow GM's to place lost cities, keeps, etc in their current campaigns. I assume that the vast majority of Blackmoor is located on the continent of Taldar(sp) which is east of Alphiatia. Just my thoughts on a fading friday.... Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com ------------------------------ From: John Yu Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:46:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Novels First time ever using a mailing list, so if I make any mistake, don't flame me too badly. > > I have added the basics from both books. I have placed > the Penhaligon book also in the past (as one of the dragons > came out with all the location of the current known dragons) I'm not quite sure what you meant by the location of dragons, but based on the Karameiko Box Set, Lady Arteris Penhaligon was still the ruler of Penhaligon at ~AC 1013. So it should not set in the past. > So verideth with the advent of verideth I placed the whole > scenario in the past. This also makes sense because I do > not recall the School of magic in Kerameikos that was > destroyed. Thus they give a little more background for my > world. > The village of mage that was destoryed was in Altan Tepes Mountain (if I remembered correctly), the School of Magic is in Krakatos, so they are not the same. As far as I know that village of mages are not mentioned in any other published products. I simply ignored that trilogy, as it don't add much to the gameworld to worth the truble of figuring out how to place it in. ------------------------------ From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Mon, 9 Oct 95 18:27:43 MET Subject: [Mystara] Hi fellow Mystarans Hi, Here's my bio (didn't write it before because I was quite busy, then the mailing list was not working). I'm 22 and I live in France. I began playing AD&D about 10 years ago, with 1st edition rules and OD&D modules. During these years I DMed long campaigns in the Known World (I never played because nobody else had time to prepare adventures, although one of my players seems to be willing DMing in the Red Steel setting soon). I had one campaign revolve around Karameikos (GAZ1) and the Isle of Dread (X1), ending with one of the PC becoming king of the Thanegioth. For some time now I have a group that, after having much wandered in Karameikos, Thyatis, Darokin and other countries, are about to settle in Norwold (CM1) where they will become embroiled in the war between Alphatia and Thyatis (WotI). I also have a group in Esterhold Peninsula (Alphatian Empire) where they joined the rebellion and will one day participate in the freeing of the region, as described in PWA3 (it will need some work). Another group is currently fleeing Thyatis, and they will soon travel down to the Hollow World (HWAx). As you can see, I love to have different groups at different places, each one seeing the events from a different point of view (these guys are not that bad - we play some of them this time...). Later, - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: "ZUBE" Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 15:55:53 -0600, MDT Subject: [Mystara] Just another bio Greetings fellow Mystarites! It seems that it is a tradition to post a bio about yourself on this list, so here is mine. My handle for this mailing list and other AD&D related netgroups is Chrysdelarius. My real name is Brian Drew Zuber. I am 23 years old and am finishing my bachelor's degree in cultural anthropology at Idaho State University. I have pretensions to a writing career and an acting career, but am avidly pursuing a career in academia as it's a bit more stable. I have been gaming for over ten years and my first D&D experiences were with the nascent Mystara setting introduced in the Basic D&D rules box. I have played in the Realms and in Ravenloft and I have DMed in Mystara, Spelljammer, and the Planescape settings. I have grown up with Mystara while shunning the other "generic" settings, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and Greyhawk. Although I do try to read all of the novels published by TSR, however. I am saddened that TSR is discontinuing the Mystara product line after so long, but I hope that we can keep the tradition alive here. Chrysdelarius is the name of one of my favorite Mystaran PCs. He was a Forester (from "Dawn of the Empires") but is now an AD&D2 fighter/mage modeled after the old D&D Forester class. He is a Karameikan of Thyatian descent and operates in the Dymrak Forest, serving under Lord Forestor Roderick. He was at one time a were-bear (from "Night Howlers") and follows the teachings of Zirchev, Lord of Animals. He hasn't seen a lot of action since I mostly DM now and none of my friends who DM have chosen Mystara as their campaign world. And I am dread to let Chrysdelarius get trapped in the nightmare realm of my pal's Ravenloft campaign. I haven't had time to post anything of great interest to this list yet as I am very busy with school and work. But as soon as I earn some R&R I plan to post some fun stuff for you all. I have ideas to add to the "Mystaraspace" discussion, integrating Mystara into the Spelljammer campaign. I also am puzzling on how to fit Mystara into the Planescape without sacrificing the unique cosmology of the D&D version of our world. Until then I'll just toss out small items for discussion as per my "Novels" post. Well met! Chrysdelarius ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 10:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Novels Well, here's some more information on the Dragonlord books: I've recommended to my players that they read them. As opposed to the Penhaligon trilogy, Thorrarrinn Gunnarrsonn (sp?) really did seem to have read all the gazetteers (or at least the pertinent ones) and it shows. There are many references to various aspects of Mystara. Also, the reason the place names are changed in Glantri is because the story is set during the time when the Flaems ruled what was to become Glantri. The capitol is Braejr, and the novels really flesh out the character of the Flaemish people (and the Fire Wizards). This more than anything else shows us that the author really read the material in depth. Instead of setting the story in the present, he tells us more about Mystara's history, adding to the tapestry instead of scribbling over it. I'm 2/3 through the second book now, and although it starts out very strong and wanes a bit, it's still well worth it to read. Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 10:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Novels > > I have added the basics from both books. I have placed > > the Penhaligon book also in the past (as one of the dragons > > came out with all the location of the current known dragons) Well, Verdelith could very well have been a rogue dragon, and that would explain his appearance (and why he wasn't listed). > I'm not quite sure what you meant by the location of dragons, but > based on the Karameiko Box Set, Lady Arteris Penhaligon was still > the ruler of Penhaligon at ~AC 1013. So it should not set in the > past. Here there is a problem. In the novels it's Baroness Arteris. So it must be in the future. I had originally set the Penhaligon trilogy around 1003/1004 (after the gazetteers, but before WotI). A small oversight in the PWAs that she's still referred to as Lady. (Any comments from yourself, Ann?) > I simply ignored that trilogy, as it don't add much to the > gameworld to worth the truble of figuring out how to place it > in. > It is a bit of a pain, isn't it? Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: Ghostgames@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 16:15:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Novels >>Here there is a problem. In the novels it's Baroness Arteris. So it must be in the future. I had originally set the Penhaligon trilogy around 1003/1004 (after the gazetteers, but before WotI). A small oversight in the PWAs that she's still referred to as Lady. (Any comments from yourself, Ann?)<< Ummm.... well, ummm, let's see, ummm... 'cause Aaron Allston listed her as a Lady in the first PWA, and I'd never read the novels? Is that it? There were a lot of similar things I didn't catch. Don't even get me started on metallic dragons... - --Ann (Dupuis) ------------------------------ From: Sir George Anonymous Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Mucho Replies to Digest #1 Well, I guess the down side to being on digest is that you only get messages every so often. Because of the startup problems, the first one weighed in at 124K. Any way, between that, my recent move, and being without internet access for over a week, I've fallen way behind. Please excuse the untimliness of these replies. And now, on with the show. >------------------------------ >From: "Nightshade" >Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:51:46 AST > >I am highly >critical of TSR's decision to (first) translate Mystara into an >AD&D setting and (second) when that failed, to drop support from it >entirely. I won't get up on my soapbox about this one. I just want to say that when it was first announced that Mystara was going AD&D, I thought it was a great idea. Of course, at the time, the plan was to have dual AD&D/D&D support. Now that Mystara lives on mostly in the hearts and minds of those of us on this list, I'm not nearly as happy about it. *sigh* > I think the greatest strength of Mystara comes from the cultures >and rich background of the world. Unlike most FRP worlds, it doesn't >fall back on a magic-heavy crutch to support its problems. In fact, >while it has been 'sold' as a high magic world, I find that 90% of >it can be de-powered almost to a magic poor or magic-null world, >thus enhancing the feel or mystique of the obviously magic-rich >cultures (Alfheim, Alphatia, Glantri). Here, here. >------------------------------ >From: rogers@bbs.tde.com >Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 19:24:19 -0700 >I took over a message-based game that >is utilizing X13: Crown of Ancient Glory, and I've been digging up >information on Vestland and the northern countries around it. If >anyone here has run campaigns through the area, I'd love to hear >about it. I have been running X3 since April. It's set between the city of Rhoona and the border with the Ethengar Khanates. The idea behind it is good, but making it plausible required a massive rewrite on my part. Of course, I rarely use modules exactly as they are written. Any way, one of the things I used to help me was HR1 the Vikings Campaign Sourcebook. There is a lot of good information on the culture plus a couple of new classes (runecasters, berserkers), and a new race (the trollborn or half-troll). Since this information is designed for AD&D2, it's easy to plug directly into the campaign. BTW I used the pirate kit from the Complete Fighter's Handbook for Draco. >------------------------------ >From: Orion >Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:52:34 -0500 (CDT) >Subject: [Mystara] MML Projects > > The following is a list of projects that the Mailing List might work >on together. > >The Mystara FAQ >Mystara Index >New Gazetteers >Mystaraspace >Tourist Guides >Rumors and Adventure Seeds >New Races >Specialty Priests of the Immortals >Standard Stuff All worthy projects with a lot of merit. Here are a few others I would be interested in seeing: An index of the characteristics of existing peoples (average height and weight, venerable age, age of adulthood, skin color, languages and dialects, distinguishing mannerisms and physical characteristics, etc.). A discussion of how Mystara fits in with the Planescape setting. An index of non-Mystara products useful for a Mystara campaign. A future time-line. An AD&D version of the immortality rules. A discussion on the differences between gods and immortals. Just some more food for thought. >------------------------------ >From: Sven Munther >Date: Tue, 19 Sep 95 09:38:00 MET > >My interest in Mystara >is the Traveller-like campaigns I can run there. I'd like to hear more about this. >------------------------------ >From: "Thomas J. Mahaney II" >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:27:35 -0400 > >One thing I particularly like about Mystara is the large number >of Immortals. I have been compiling a list Have you seen Wrath of the Immortals? Most of them are listed there. >------------------------------ >From: "D.J. Sahlas" >Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 14:37:48 -0400 (EDT) > > I disagree with you here. Pirates, native islanders, the Honor >Island Mages ... when you merge it with PC3 "The Sea People" it works >amazingly well. Cast me as a GAZ 4 loyalist. I gotta agree with you here. >------------------------------ >From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) >Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 10:09:22 -0400 > >I decided to >send them back in time(50 years - just bought chronomancer). The keep >was being overrun by the humanoids and they met the wizard as he was >writing his last entry into the notebook. He answered a few questions >about sonora, then said the must escape. (thats where we left off). > > My question is what should I do( I have a couple of thoughts) >The barbarian will most likely try to now save the captured King >of vestland (because he was only recently captured in this time). >But some of the other party members I am not sure. > -I can have the king die anyways (same effect on time) > -I can have it be a trap to lure the mage(party) to waiting foes > -I can have them save the king (very changed time line) If the PC's are able to save the king, I would allow it and change the time line. If you don't want the changes to be permanent, make sure you include several changes that the PC's won't like (dead family members, loss of noble titles, warrants for their arrest, etc.) so they will have incentive to reverse the changes. There is precent for that type of thing in the DA series of modules. >What happens if they try to get magic items they know where will >be 50 years from now? > -Have the magic items not be there(this will only work for some items) Do this whenever possible. For the most part these things won't just sit around for 50 years waiting for them. Another, more poetic, alternative is to find a way to have the PC's or an NPC leave the item where it will later be found. You could also have taking an item prematurely cause more changes to the future of the campaign world. If all else fails, have the second one disappear, after all it wasn't around to be found in the future was it? >What happens if they try to meet their parents/gand parents, or in >case of elves(by wording of wish they were transported also) meet >themselves. The last time my PC's were in this situation, they had the opportunity to warn themselves about something. They decided against it. > -I like the 'Time cop' logic that they cannot touch themselves or > they will be destroyed What's the rational behind this? > -Or should I let them interfere with their ancestors Sure, let them. Make sure they know that they could suddenly disppear from existence if they meddle too much. >If all gets too weird I will have a time lord come and replace >them back in their own time stream, but they might make a few >changes? Have the players try to fix the changes they made first. Perhaps the characters could travel to the demi-plane of time to seek out a time lord if they can't fix things. Only have the time lord show up of his (its?) own accord as a last resort. >------------------------------ >From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) >Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:03:11 -0400> > > Were there only fire and air wizards, or were they only the >two prominate wizards types. There is no official implication of earth and water wizards, but I would say that tye probably existed. These two groups were not as interested in power as the fire and air wizards. > If there were other types, then what happened to them when their >home world was destroyed. They founded the Temple of Elemental Evil :-). >Watash (Previously know as Landash) >Mystara Water Wizards [descriptions snipped] I like both of these ideas. >------------------------------ >From: "Nightshade" >Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 20:22:47 AST > >Alphatia was a world apart, a special place infused with an unbalance >of Thought and Energy influence. How does this fit in with the new and "improved" AD&D version of Mystara? What exactly are the spheres? This goes along with my desire to find out how Mystara fits in with Planescape. >Their plane was similar to >Mystara/Mystarra's but the 'void' itself was breathable and had very >strong solar currents. Using Scooby's proposal that their world is part of the Mystaran crystal sphere, couldn't this be explained by the planet's position within the sphere. I don't know much about Spelljammer, but it seems plausible. >------------------------------ >From: jknotts@seldon.terminus.com >Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 18:03:55 -0700 [Lots of stuff about immortals which appeared on the list four times because of listserver snafu's, et. al. snipped] What are your sources? Some of that information I have never seen before. Is it all cannonical, or is it the way your campaign runs? Do you have Wrath of the Immortals? There's lots more information in there. ========================================================================== There, I feel much better now. Now I gotta move on to digest #2. Later, >>> Sir George Anonymous <<< ************************************************************************** ** ** ** There are no Thyatians here. There are no Traladarans. There are ** ** only citizens of Karameikos. - King Stefan Karameikos, AC 1012 ** ** ** ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #3 *************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #4 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, 12 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 004 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sir George Anonymous Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 10:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V1 #2 As with my last message, please excuse the lack of timliness of these replies. > ------------------------------ > From: Leroy Van Camp III > Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 20:57:08 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects > > On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, D.J. Sahlas wrote: > > > An excellent suggestion. I'd be willing to write an "evolution > > of Mystara" section - I have everything T$R ever published on the > > subject. > > Actually, I was thinking of a whole seperate project that lists, rates > and describes everything available for Mystara. Perhaps, if someone was > willing to type in a list of such products, we could distribute it and have > every member evaluate each product, then total it all up. > What does everyone think? Why not include both? > ------------------------------ > > From: AEVF56A@prodigy.com (MR SHELBY J MICHLIN) > Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 20:52:34 EDT > > I based my > campaign in the Judges Guild City State world. Arneson published First > Fantasy Campaign as a Judges Guild product, detailing his Blackmoor > campaign and placing it adjacent to the Judges Guild world maps, so I > incorporated it. Now you've piqued my curiosity. Were these originally designed to go together? > This includes Spelljammer information for both time > periods, and much thought on time travel (and what the hell, I'll tell > you) the old C&S supplement "Saurians" also figures prominently in the > history. I've had parties in both time periods, although Spelljamming > only in the Modern World's crystal sphere, which I've titled > "Titansphere." I'd be happy to go into detail if there is any interest. Tell me more. > I might be interested in the "indexing" project, if I can get a better > idea of what's involved, and if I can do either aspects I've mentioned > above, and/or the Glantri Gazeteer, my personal favorite. I think (Orion, correct me if I'm wrong) the indexing project is designed so that there is a listing of which products information can be found in. For example, if I want information on Stefan Karemeikos, the index might point me to GAZ1, Dawn of Emperors, Wrath of the Immortals, the AD&D Karameikos boxed set, the Poor Wizard's Almanacs, and a few other places. > > ------------------------------ > > From: "David 'Azure' Leland" > Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 11:25:21 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: [Mystara] PWAs and Rheddrian/Benekander > > I was wondering whether anyone else who has WotI (Wrath of the > Immortals) and any of the PWAs (Poor Wizard's Almanacs) wonders what ever > happened to Benekander, i.e. why he has not been involved in any "Current > Events." Yes, I have been wondering this myself. > When that Immortal Gareth (was that its name?) showed up and > getting heroes to join the cause of Immortal non-interference, it > reminded me of Benekander's absence. I wonder, though, whether this new > Immortal is really an alias for Benekander..wouldn't that be > interesting. Well, since it seems that the person who wrote PWAIII is > among us, perhaps she can say something about Benekander's absence? :) Was there anything about Gareth and/or Benekander in Mark of Amber? > ------------------------------ > > From: Mischa E Gelman > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:04:59 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: [Mystara] Hollow WorldQ-Burrowers > > In my current campaign, in the Hollow World, the party recently defeated > a group of Kogolor rebels(due to a burrower near the Southern Kogolor > lands. Now, has anyone come up with any info on burrowers, as the > dwarven PC, a patriotic type, is on a search for the cause of this > disturbance. The Hollow World rulebooks give little help on this topic. > They simply say burrowers have the power to influence close-ranged mortal > minds. Is there any way to avoid this control, or to kill a burrower by > any rules? Also, if someone approaches the Tower of Soth/Sekhaba, is > the PC gonna automatically fall under control of the burrower/tower? The Hollow World Sega game included the PC's determining the cause of the strange behavior of their people and eliminating a burrower. I'll see if I can dig up any info from that. > ------------------------------ > > From: Orion > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:20:02 -0500 (CDT) > Subject: Re: [Mystara] PWAs and Rheddrian/Benekander > > Although I haven't read any official word on the subject, I am fairly > certain on the reason why. With the AD&D edition of Mystara, TSR is > "sanitizing" the Known World of all references to advanced technology, > such as the origins of the Nucleus of the Spheres and The Great Rain of > Fire. And since Benekander was formerly an engineer on a spaceship, he > has been tossed out. > If we ever see another edition of GAZ13, they will probably change the > Shadow Elves Secret Project to something else. Do you really think this is the case? I think it's more likely that there are no references to the Nucleus of the Spheres and the Great Rain of Fire because most of the AD&D Mystara stuff was designed for people new to Mystara who didn't really need that information. > ------------------------------ > > From: "Nightshade" > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:08:10 AST > Subject: [Mystara] Shadow Elves (was Re: Rheddrian/Benekander) > > In WotI Rafiel is transformed from the obsessed nuclear physicist- > turned-god to a drooling surface hater hell-bent on the desctruction > of the surface races. Actually, just the Alfheim elves. It seems he was upset about their slight against his people too. > From the way he is written up in gazetteer I > don't think he would have even gotten involved in the war (he was of > the school of thought that you don't draw attention to yourself). Attention was drawn to everybody during the war. > A solution: In my game, Rafiel isn't involved withthe War... at > least until the King (influenced by Atzanteotl) invades Alfheim. The > death of the forest was caused by another, outside force. Thge > result is a bloody civil war underground, with the Shamans fleeing > the destrcution the Refuge of Stone with whatever Soul Crystals they > could. This is also plausible, but... 1) What causes the forest to die? 2) Why didn't the Alfheim attack the Shadow Elves when the civil war broke out. 3) Why didn't Ilsundal then restore the forest? > ------------------------------ > > From: Orion > Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:57:31 -0500 (CDT) > Subject: [Mystara] Wrath of the Immortals > > How many people on the list have ran or integrated WotI into their > cqmpaigns, modified or otherwise? I haven't yet. My campaign is currently in Sviftmont of 1001. However, I plan to have the PC's do a little time traveling and end up in 1004 just in time to free Benekander and see the hostilities begin. > ------------------------------ > > From: "Chrysdelarius" > Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 15:54:56 -0600, MDT > Subject: [Mystara] Novels > > I am curious if anyone has integrated any aspects of the TSR > novels that have been set in Mystara so far. I created the Order of the Three Suns in Penhaligon and elevated Lady Penhaligon to a Baroness (effective in the summer of AC1000). I decided that the village Bywater was created on the former spot of Guido's Fort (see B5 and B1-9). As my main group of PC's didn't bite on the adventure, Guido's Fort was destroyed by Hobgoblins, et. al. Then another group of PC's cleaned the place out after the fact. I plan on using the other events from the Penhaligon Trilogy as interesting news items, but I don't think Penhaligon will be destroyed. As for Dragonlord of Mystara, yeah, that stuff happened in my campaign. It is even possible to find a chronicle containing the text of the book in one of the CD adventures (I don't remember which one right now). I haven't read the second book in that series yet. ===================================================================== Whew, I'm finally caught up. Oh, no, digest #3 just arrived. :-) Later, >>> Sir George Anonymous <<< ************************************************************************** ** ** ** There are no Thyatians here. There are no Traladarans. There are ** ** only citizens of Karameikos. - King Stefan Karameikos, AC 1012 ** ** ** ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Sir George Anonymous Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 10:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V1 #2 As with my last message, please excuse the lack of timliness of these replies. > ------------------------------ > From: Leroy Van Camp III > Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 20:57:08 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects > > On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, D.J. Sahlas wrote: > > > An excellent suggestion. I'd be willing to write an "evolution > > of Mystara" section - I have everything T$R ever published on the > > subject. > > Actually, I was thinking of a whole seperate project that lists, rates > and describes everything available for Mystara. Perhaps, if someone was > willing to type in a list of such products, we could distribute it and have > every member evaluate each product, then total it all up. > What does everyone think? Why not include both? > ------------------------------ > > From: AEVF56A@prodigy.com (MR SHELBY J MICHLIN) > Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 20:52:34 EDT > > I based my > campaign in the Judges Guild City State world. Arneson published First > Fantasy Campaign as a Judges Guild product, detailing his Blackmoor > campaign and placing it adjacent to the Judges Guild world maps, so I > incorporated it. Now you've piqued my curiosity. Were these originally designed to go together? > This includes Spelljammer information for both time > periods, and much thought on time travel (and what the hell, I'll tell > you) the old C&S supplement "Saurians" also figures prominently in the > history. I've had parties in both time periods, although Spelljamming > only in the Modern World's crystal sphere, which I've titled > "Titansphere." I'd be happy to go into detail if there is any interest. Tell me more. > I might be interested in the "indexing" project, if I can get a better > idea of what's involved, and if I can do either aspects I've mentioned > above, and/or the Glantri Gazeteer, my personal favorite. I think (Orion, correct me if I'm wrong) the indexing project is designed so that there is a listing of which products information can be found in. For example, if I want information on Stefan Karemeikos, the index might point me to GAZ1, Dawn of Emperors, Wrath of the Immortals, the AD&D Karameikos boxed set, the Poor Wizard's Almanacs, and a few other places. > > ------------------------------ > > From: "David 'Azure' Leland" > Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 11:25:21 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: [Mystara] PWAs and Rheddrian/Benekander > > I was wondering whether anyone else who has WotI (Wrath of the > Immortals) and any of the PWAs (Poor Wizard's Almanacs) wonders what ever > happened to Benekander, i.e. why he has not been involved in any "Current > Events." Yes, I have been wondering this myself. > When that Immortal Gareth (was that its name?) showed up and > getting heroes to join the cause of Immortal non-interference, it > reminded me of Benekander's absence. I wonder, though, whether this new > Immortal is really an alias for Benekander..wouldn't that be > interesting. Well, since it seems that the person who wrote PWAIII is > among us, perhaps she can say something about Benekander's absence? :) Was there anything about Gareth and/or Benekander in Mark of Amber? > ------------------------------ > > From: Mischa E Gelman > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:04:59 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: [Mystara] Hollow WorldQ-Burrowers > > In my current campaign, in the Hollow World, the party recently defeated > a group of Kogolor rebels(due to a burrower near the Southern Kogolor > lands. Now, has anyone come up with any info on burrowers, as the > dwarven PC, a patriotic type, is on a search for the cause of this > disturbance. The Hollow World rulebooks give little help on this topic. > They simply say burrowers have the power to influence close-ranged mortal > minds. Is there any way to avoid this control, or to kill a burrower by > any rules? Also, if someone approaches the Tower of Soth/Sekhaba, is > the PC gonna automatically fall under control of the burrower/tower? The Hollow World Sega game included the PC's determining the cause of the strange behavior of their people and eliminating a burrower. I'll see if I can dig up any info from that. > ------------------------------ > > From: Orion > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:20:02 -0500 (CDT) > Subject: Re: [Mystara] PWAs and Rheddrian/Benekander > > Although I haven't read any official word on the subject, I am fairly > certain on the reason why. With the AD&D edition of Mystara, TSR is > "sanitizing" the Known World of all references to advanced technology, > such as the origins of the Nucleus of the Spheres and The Great Rain of > Fire. And since Benekander was formerly an engineer on a spaceship, he > has been tossed out. > If we ever see another edition of GAZ13, they will probably change the > Shadow Elves Secret Project to something else. Do you really think this is the case? I think it's more likely that there are no references to the Nucleus of the Spheres and the Great Rain of Fire because most of the AD&D Mystara stuff was designed for people new to Mystara who didn't really need that information. > ------------------------------ > > From: "Nightshade" > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:08:10 AST > Subject: [Mystara] Shadow Elves (was Re: Rheddrian/Benekander) > > In WotI Rafiel is transformed from the obsessed nuclear physicist- > turned-god to a drooling surface hater hell-bent on the desctruction > of the surface races. Actually, just the Alfheim elves. It seems he was upset about their slight against his people too. > From the way he is written up in gazetteer I > don't think he would have even gotten involved in the war (he was of > the school of thought that you don't draw attention to yourself). Attention was drawn to everybody during the war. > A solution: In my game, Rafiel isn't involved withthe War... at > least until the King (influenced by Atzanteotl) invades Alfheim. The > death of the forest was caused by another, outside force. Thge > result is a bloody civil war underground, with the Shamans fleeing > the destrcution the Refuge of Stone with whatever Soul Crystals they > could. This is also plausible, but... 1) What causes the forest to die? 2) Why didn't the Alfheim attack the Shadow Elves when the civil war broke out. 3) Why didn't Ilsundal then restore the forest? > ------------------------------ > > From: Orion > Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:57:31 -0500 (CDT) > Subject: [Mystara] Wrath of the Immortals > > How many people on the list have ran or integrated WotI into their > cqmpaigns, modified or otherwise? I haven't yet. My campaign is currently in Sviftmont of 1001. However, I plan to have the PC's do a little time traveling and end up in 1004 just in time to free Benekander and see the hostilities begin. > ------------------------------ > > From: "Chrysdelarius" > Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 15:54:56 -0600, MDT > Subject: [Mystara] Novels > > I am curious if anyone has integrated any aspects of the TSR > novels that have been set in Mystara so far. I created the Order of the Three Suns in Penhaligon and elevated Lady Penhaligon to a Baroness (effective in the summer of AC1000). I decided that the village Bywater was created on the former spot of Guido's Fort (see B5 and B1-9). As my main group of PC's didn't bite on the adventure, Guido's Fort was destroyed by Hobgoblins, et. al. Then another group of PC's cleaned the place out after the fact. I plan on using the other events from the Penhaligon Trilogy as interesting news items, but I don't think Penhaligon will be destroyed. As for Dragonlord of Mystara, yeah, that stuff happened in my campaign. It is even possible to find a chronicle containing the text of the book in one of the CD adventures (I don't remember which one right now). I haven't read the second book in that series yet. ===================================================================== Whew, I'm finally caught up. Oh, no, digest #3 just arrived. :-) Later, >>> Sir George Anonymous <<< ************************************************************************** ** ** ** There are no Thyatians here. There are no Traladarans. There are ** ** only citizens of Karameikos. - King Stefan Karameikos, AC 1012 ** ** ** ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 11:05:59 EDT Subject: [Mystara] Mucho Replies to Digest #1 Hello all. Finally found you guys. Thanks for posting most of the digest Sir George, caught me up rather nicely. >>I am highly >>critical of TSR's decision to (first) translate Mystara into an >>AD&D setting and (second) when that failed, to drop support from it >>entirely. >I won't get up on my soapbox about this one. I just want to say that >when it was first announced that Mystara was going AD&D, I thought it was >a great idea. Of course, at the time, the plan was to have dual AD&D/D&D >support. Now that Mystara lives on mostly in the hearts and minds of >those of us on this list, I'm not nearly as happy about it. *sigh* I also thought it was a great idea to convert Mystara to AD&D (I'd been doing it for years). I was really looking forward to seeing all of Mystara's races, classes, and monsters brought over to AD&D. Much to my (and apparently everyone else's) disappointment the boxed sets were just a fluffed up reprint of Gazeteer's 1 and 3. Any clue why they skipped 2 (Ylaruam)? > The following is a list of projects that the Mailing List might work >on together. > >The Mystara FAQ >Mystara Index What would these include? >New Gazetteers For countries in the Hollow World, or cultures on Davania, Skothar, etc? >New Races Or conversions of the Creature Crucibles to AD&D rules. I've been working on some of them, which I'll either post/send or make available some how when I get a reasonable number finished. >Specialty Priests of the Immortals I'd love to help with this. I'd suggest S&P and WotI as good references for this project. When I first picked up S&P I thought it would be a great resource for making new classes balanced. >All worthy projects with a lot of merit. Here are a few others I would >be interested in seeing: >An index of the characteristics of existing peoples (average height and > weight, venerable age, age of adulthood, skin color, languages and > dialects, distinguishing mannerisms and physical characteristics, etc.). A good idea. At least a list of which culture fits which country (ex. Russian or Black Forest German for Karameikos, Middle Eastern for Ylaruam etc.) >A discussion of how Mystara fits in with the Planescape setting. Excellent. Any suggestions on how to fit the spheres into the current planar model? >An index of non-Mystara products useful for a Mystara campaign. Hmmm. Someone mentioned HR1 Viking Sourcebook. I've also found the Al-Qadim boxed set, and Complete Sha'irs HB to be useful for Ylaruam, Sind, and Hule. And the psionics rules work well to explain the mental powers of the people of the Most Serene Divinarchy of Yavdlom. Any others? I'll keep a list if no one minds. >An AD&D version of the immortality rules. This isn't really necessary. The rules work just fine as they are. It even says that some stats may change because you aren't mortal any more. And none of the paths are stat based. >A discussion on the differences between gods and immortals. The only difference I've noticed is that Gods seem to have power all there own, where Immortals derive their power from their worshippers. Perhaps a better direction to go would be if the Gods and Immortals with the same names are the samebeing, coincidentally named the same, or imposters (and who is the imposter). >>One thing I particularly like about Mystara is the large number >>of Immortals. I have been compiling a list >Have you seen Wrath of the Immortals? Most of them are listed there. Better yet, compiling a list of the different names for the listed Immortals. Ixion has at least 5 or 6 different names between the Hollow World, Red Steel, and WotI. Don't limit the scope to WotI though. Even it says that a comprehensive list is immpossible as there are thousands of Immortals. >> Were there only fire and air wizards, or were they only the >>two prominate wizards types. >There is no official implication of earth and water wizards, but I would say >that tye probably existed. These two groups were not as interested in >power as the fire and air wizards. >> If there were other types, then what happened to them when their >>home world was destroyed. I've always wondered this as well. Perhaps they were destroyed with the world? >Watash (Previously know as Landash) >Mystara Water Wizards Could you resend these? __________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: Sir George Anonymous Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 11:10:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] mystara-digest V1 #3 (fwd) General replies to Digest #3. These are a bit more timely because it just arrived. >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "David 'Azure' Leland" >Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 19:13:02 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: Re: [Mystara] Novels> > >Greetings, > > I read the first two of the Penhaligon trilogy and found the first >to be poor and the second to be lame. I didn't bother buying the third >book. I was sorely disappointed that except for certain place names (and >precious few, at that) the books have nothing at all to do with Mystara >and could just as well (actually, BETTER) have been set elsewhere. Who's >going to have a name like Fain Flinn in Karameikos? And what was he doing worshiping Diulanna? As far as the rest of your characterization goes, I have to agree. However I do have somewhat of a medieval flavor to my version of Karameikos so it's a little easier to adapt things like this to my campaign. > I haven't touched the dragonwhatever books. Do they have >anything to do with Mystara? Actually they do contain a lot of good background material which doesn't seem to conflict with what is already out ther (at least so far). - ------------------------------ From: John Yu Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:46:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Novels >I'm not quite sure what you meant by the location of dragons, but >based on the Karameiko Box Set, Lady Arteris Penhaligon was still >the ruler of Penhaligon at ~AC 1013. So it should not set in the >past. And the book implies that her father, the former baron, died within the last 10 years, but we know he was dead in AC 1000. Also that book is the only place that it mentions that he was ever a baron. It just doesn't match up with other published material. As to the "location of dragons," there was an article in Dragon magazine a while back showing the locations of the various dragon kingdoms in the southeastern portion of the continent of Brun (aka the Known World). >The village of mage that was destoryed was in Altan Tepes >Mountain (if I remembered correctly), Actually the village named is located in Darokin, and, IIRC, is full of farmers or shepherds or something to that effect. The Penhaligon trilogy indicates that it is packed full of wizards. >the School of Magic >is in Krakatos, so they are not the same. Until after the war, Krakatos is nothing but ruins. The School of Magic was founded later. Does anybody know what happened to Krakatos to begin with? Does anyone know whatever happened to Telden, the former head of the magicians guild in Specularum? >As far as I know >that village of mages are not mentioned in any other published >products. See above. >I simply ignored that trilogy, as it don't add much to the >gameworld to worth the truble of figuring out how to place it >in. Not a bad idea at all. - ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 10:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Novels > Here there is a problem. In the novels it's Baroness Arteris. >So it must be in the future. I had originally set the Penhaligon trilogy >around 1003/1004 (after the gazetteers, but before WotI). A small >oversight in the PWAs that she's still referred to as Lady. (Any >comments from yourself, Ann?) You just gave me a great idea. As I said previously, my PC's are going to be doing some time traveling and will return about AC1004. WoTI makes mention of a great deal of tension that builds up between 1000 and 1004. Having parts of the Penhaligon trilogy occur as "in the news" events might be interesting. BTW, the Karameikos boxed set refers to her as Lady also. ======================================================================= Later, >>> Sir George Anonymous <<< ************************************************************************** ** ** ** There are no Thyatians here. There are no Traladarans. There are ** ** only citizens of Karameikos. - King Stefan Karameikos, AC 1012 ** ** ** ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 11:28:39 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V1 #2 > > > ------------------------------ > > From: Leroy Van Camp III > > Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 20:57:08 -0700 (PDT) > > Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects > > > > On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, D.J. Sahlas wrote: > > > > > An excellent suggestion. I'd be willing to write an "evolution > > > of Mystara" section - I have everything T$R ever published on the > > > subject. > > I'd really like to see this. I've only got a few of the books which detail the history of Mystara (like WotI), and I'm still confused about exactly when somethings happened. Some of the sources seem to conflict each other as well. > > Actually, I was thinking of a whole seperate project that lists, rates > > and describes everything available for Mystara. Perhaps, if someone was > > willing to type in a list of such products, we could distribute it and have > > every member evaluate each product, then total it all up. > > What does everyone think? I'll send the list as soon as this damn web page loads. I can't guarantee it'll be complete, but its the rec.games.frp.marketplace average price list which has most, if not all, TSR's products on it. http://info.acm.org/~papay/tsr_prices_table.html if anyone's interested. > > I was wondering whether anyone else who has WotI (Wrath of the > > Immortals) and any of the PWAs (Poor Wizard's Almanacs) wonders what ever > > happened to Benekander, i.e. why he has not been involved in any "Current > > Events." > > Yes, I have been wondering this myself. > > > > When that Immortal Gareth (was that its name?) showed up and > > getting heroes to join the cause of Immortal non-interference, it > > reminded me of Benekander's absence. I wonder, though, whether this new > > Immortal is really an alias for Benekander..wouldn't that be > > interesting. Well, since it seems that the person who wrote PWAIII is > > among us, perhaps she can say something about Benekander's absence? :) > > Was there anything about Gareth and/or Benekander in Mark of Amber? Not a word. The only thing Mark of Amber explains is what happens to Rad/Etienne after WotI. He's not having a good time. :) I wondered if Gareth might not be Benekander as well. He may have used it as a way of integrating himself into the Immortal society since he'd been hiding from them during WotI. Kind of giving up the last traces of his mortal identity (Rhedrian Benekander) and fully accepting his Immortality as Gareth. > > > > Although I haven't read any official word on the subject, I am fairly > > certain on the reason why. With the AD&D edition of Mystara, TSR is > > "sanitizing" the Known World of all references to advanced technology, > > such as the origins of the Nucleus of the Spheres and The Great Rain of > > Fire. And since Benekander was formerly an engineer on a spaceship, he > > has been tossed out. > > If we ever see another edition of GAZ13, they will probably change the > > Shadow Elves Secret Project to something else. > > Do you really think this is the case? I think it's more likely that > there are no references to the Nucleus of the Spheres and the Great Rain > of Fire because most of the AD&D Mystara stuff was designed for people > new to Mystara who didn't really need that information. > My personal theory is the were trying to remove most of Gygax's and Areneson's influence on the campaign world. Another question, possibly related, about WotI. If the Nucleus of the Spheres was altered to drain from Entropy instead of Energy shouldn't that have stopped the Magic drain and started draining Evil instead? But the Glantri Box Set says the artifact still drains Mystara's source of magical energy. > > In WotI Rafiel is transformed from the obsessed nuclear physicist- > > turned-god to a drooling surface hater hell-bent on the desctruction > > of the surface races. > > Actually, just the Alfheim elves. It seems he was upset about their > slight against his people too. > > > > From the way he is written up in gazetteer I > > don't think he would have even gotten involved in the war (he was of > > the school of thought that you don't draw attention to yourself). > > Attention was drawn to everybody during the war. Actually WotI explains Rafiel's involvment. In order to keep his folowers from turning totally over to Atzanteotl, who advocated attacking Alfheim, he half-heartedly started advocating the same thing. I believe there was something about having little other choice. And remember the Shadow Elves think Rafiel is cruel and evil. He intructs them to leave deformed children in the tunnels to die, though he really guides them to the Broken Lands to be raised by the humanoids. > > A solution: In my game, Rafiel isn't involved withthe War... at > > least until the King (influenced by Atzanteotl) invades Alfheim. The > > death of the forest was caused by another, outside force. Thge > > result is a bloody civil war underground, with the Shamans fleeing > > the destrcution the Refuge of Stone with whatever Soul Crystals they > > could. > > This is also plausible, but... > 1) What causes the forest to die? Perhaps Oberon and Company kill the forest, since its partly their magic keeping it alive. They didn't want the Shadow Elves to take over so they spoiled their prize. > 2) Why didn't the Alfheim attack the Shadow Elves when the civil war > broke out. No access to the Caverns, they didn't know about it, all available access was through Bad Magic Points, etc. > 3) Why didn't Ilsundal then restore the forest? That could be called direct Immortal interference. And perhaps he too didn't want to give the Canolbarth to the Shadow Elves. _____________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mucho Replies to Digest #1 On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Sir George Anonymous wrote: > All worthy projects with a lot of merit. Here are a few others I would > be interested in seeing: > > An index of the characteristics of existing peoples (average height and > weight, venerable age, age of adulthood, skin color, languages and > dialects, distinguishing mannerisms and physical characteristics, etc.). > A discussion of how Mystara fits in with the Planescape setting. > An index of non-Mystara products useful for a Mystara campaign. > A future time-line. > An AD&D version of the immortality rules. > A discussion on the differences between gods and immortals. > > Just some more food for thought. Sounds good. Now all we need is some volunteers. > >Alphatia was a world apart, a special place infused with an unbalance > >of Thought and Energy influence. > > How does this fit in with the new and "improved" AD&D version of > Mystara? What exactly are the spheres? This goes along with my desire > to find out how Mystara fits in with Planescape. > Using Scooby's proposal that their world is part of the Mystaran > crystal sphere, couldn't this be explained by the planet's position > within the sphere. I don't know much about Spelljammer, but it seems > plausible. Actually, there is no reason Alphatia's story needs to be altered to fit Mystara into the Spelljammer/Planescape paradigm. When I get a chance I'll write up what I am talkin about. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #4 *************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #5 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, 12 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 005 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:11:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V1 #2 On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Sir George Anonymous wrote: > > > An excellent suggestion. I'd be willing to write an "evolution > > > of Mystara" section - I have everything T$R ever published on the > > > subject. > > > > Actually, I was thinking of a whole seperate project that lists, rates > > and describes everything available for Mystara. Perhaps, if someone was > > willing to type in a list of such products, we could distribute it and have > > every member evaluate each product, then total it all up. > > What does everyone think? > > Why not include both? As always, I am just waiting for volunteers. > I think (Orion, correct me if I'm wrong) the indexing project is designed > so that there is a listing of which products information can be found > in. For example, if I want information on Stefan Karemeikos, the index > might point me to GAZ1, Dawn of Emperors, Wrath of the Immortals, > the AD&D Karameikos boxed set, the Poor Wizard's Almanacs, and a few > other places. As I envision the project, there will be one huge index. It will be composed of the many seperate indices that people create. Although one person would work on one index, they would all be compiled into a master index. > > Although I haven't read any official word on the subject, I am fairly > > certain on the reason why. With the AD&D edition of Mystara, TSR is > > "sanitizing" the Known World of all references to advanced technology, > > such as the origins of the Nucleus of the Spheres and The Great Rain of > > Fire. And since Benekander was formerly an engineer on a spaceship, he > > has been tossed out. > > If we ever see another edition of GAZ13, they will probably change the > > Shadow Elves Secret Project to something else. > > Do you really think this is the case? I think it's more likely that > there are no references to the Nucleus of the Spheres and the Great Rain > of Fire because most of the AD&D Mystara stuff was designed for people > new to Mystara who didn't really need that information. Yeah, I honestly do. After all, the boxed sets were designed to replace the Gazetteers. I think that if they were going to retain the tech aspect, they would have put it in there. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mucho Replies to Digest #1 On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > Hello all. Finally found you guys. > Thanks for posting most of the digest Sir George, caught me up rather > nicely. If you'd like, Bruce, I could send you copies of Digest 1 & 2. Just drop me a line at: Owner-mystara-l@io.com. > >New Gazetteers > > For countries in the Hollow World, or cultures on Davania, Skothar, etc? Either way. I am sure any new material would be welcome. > >New Races > > Or conversions of the Creature Crucibles to AD&D rules. I've been working > on some of them, which I'll either post/send or make available some how > when I get a reasonable number finished. Feel free to post it to the list. If it's large, just break it down into smaller chunks. With TSR's current net.policy, putting it on an FTP site is problematic. > >Specialty Priests of the Immortals > > I'd love to help with this. I'd suggest S&P and WotI as good references > for this project. When I first picked up S&P I thought it would be a > great resource for making new classes balanced. If you use S&P rules, and plan on making it all available to the list, you may want to also post it in a non-S&P format. There are probably quite a few people on the list who don't use S&P. > >A discussion of how Mystara fits in with the Planescape setting. > > Excellent. Any suggestions on how to fit the spheres into the current planar model? When I get a chance, I'm going to write up my ideas on how Mystara fits into Spelljammer/Planescape. There was a bit of conversation on creating Mystaraspace on the Spelljammer mailing list, and at least one person interested is on both lists. (Scooby, you out there?) > >A discussion on the differences between gods and immortals. > > The only difference I've noticed is that Gods seem to have power all there > own, where Immortals derive their power from their worshippers. Perhaps > a better direction to go would be if the Gods and Immortals with the > same names are the samebeing, coincidentally named the same, or > imposters (and who is the imposter). Are you sure you don't have this backwards? Legends & Lore says specificly that Gods need worshippers, and several AD&D settings have mentioned gods whose powers have waned through loss of worshippers (FR & GH). On the other hand, I don't recall WotI stating that Immortals _need_ worshippers. Correct me if I am wrong, here. In my own Mystara campaigns, I point out that there are less priests in the world, compared to other settings. Because Immortals don't need followers, they are less likely to hand out powers. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Cthulhu, eh? I'll try and backstab him" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V1 #2 On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > > Although I haven't read any official word on the subject, I am fairly > > > certain on the reason why. With the AD&D edition of Mystara, TSR is > > > "sanitizing" the Known World of all references to advanced technology, > > > such as the origins of the Nucleus of the Spheres and The Great Rain of > > > Fire. And since Benekander was formerly an engineer on a spaceship, he > > > has been tossed out. > > > If we ever see another edition of GAZ13, they will probably change the > > > Shadow Elves Secret Project to something else. > My personal theory is the were trying to remove most of Gygax's and > Areneson's influence on the campaign world. Possible, but once AD&D came out, Gygax had very little to do with D&D, or the Known World. As for Arneson, he was gone long before the Gazetteers were ever released, plus I don't think there is any sort of stigma against him at TSR. I believe he left over differences with Gygax. Again, I believe TSR simply didn't want the technological element there anymore, so they scrapped all references. Just my theory, though. > Another question, possibly related, about WotI. If the Nucleus of the > Spheres was altered to drain from Entropy instead of Energy shouldn't > that have stopped the Magic drain and started draining Evil instead? > But the Glantri Box Set says the artifact still drains Mystara's > source of magical energy. Ya' know, that's a damned good question. At the end of Immortal's Fury, it specificly that the NotS is draining the sphere of Entropy. Perhaps it is was an oversight? Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 14:06:50 AST Subject: [Mystara] Re: Shadow Elves > > In WotI Rafiel is transformed from the obsessed nuclear physicist- > > turned-god to a drooling surface hater hell-bent on the desctruction > > of the surface races. > Actually, just the Alfheim elves. It seems he was upset about their > slight against his people too. Rafiel wasn't upset. His people were upset. Rafiel remembers the elves as the tree-hugging Blackmoor hangers-on from his lifetime. Plus, why would he want them to live on the surface world? That would distract them from the Nucleus Project _and_ endanger its secrecy by exposing it to other gods. > > From the way he is written up in gazetteer I > > don't think he would have even gotten involved in the war (he was of > > the school of thought that you don't draw attention to yourself). > Attention was drawn to everybody during the war. No. What happened to the Traladar? The Northern Pantheon? Kagyar, or the Alphatian gods? No mention is even made of the undersea immortals, or the faeries. From reading the events chapter of the book, it would appear that all the other gods and goddesses of Mystara were on vacation during the six-year war. > > A solution: In my game, Rafiel isn't involved withthe War... at > > least until the King (influenced by Atzanteotl) invades Alfheim. The > > death of the forest was caused by another, outside force. Thge > > result is a bloody civil war underground, with the Shamans fleeing > > the destrcution the Refuge of Stone with whatever Soul Crystals they > > could. > This is also plausible, but... > 1) What causes the forest to die? The undead treant from Tall Tales of the Wee Folk. The disease- infested one who has to destroy a forest as part of the Path to Immortality. Or maybe Moorkroft (straight from CM7- The Tree of Life). > 2) Why didn't the Alfheim attack the Shadow Elves when the civil war > broke out. With the Huleans, Thar's horde, wandering conjured monsters, dying Life Trees and conflicting orders from their priests (Ilsundal and Eiryundul), not to mention the general panic and chaos of war, the normally stoic elves would have a hard time trying to form a single coherent thought as they weather one crisis after another. Also, the surface elves haven't had much success at infiltrating the shadow elves, and therefore may not even be aware that there is a war going on underneath the Broken Lands. > 3) Why didn't Ilsundal then restore the forest? Thanatos' influence (he does rank higher than Ilsundal, his power would win any contest), the death of the trees, his preoccupation in dealing with the plague. Maybe he was attacked personally by another god and put out of commission for 10 years. > >>> Sir George Anonymous <<< > ************************************************************************** > ** ** > ** There are no Thyatians here. There are no Traladarans. There are ** > ** only citizens of Karameikos. - King Stefan Karameikos, AC 1012 ** > ** ** > ************************************************************************** "We will never give our land to the decadent who speak of equality and throw us in chains." - Ilyana Katrianashkya, Sanctus Shield of Petra, bearer of the Eye of Traladar, AC 1005 HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 14:58:28 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mucho Replies to Digest #1 > > >A discussion on the differences between gods and immortals. > > > > The only difference I've noticed is that Gods seem to have power all there > > own, where Immortals derive their power from their worshippers. Perhaps > > a better direction to go would be if the Gods and Immortals with the > > same names are the samebeing, coincidentally named the same, or > > imposters (and who is the imposter). > > Are you sure you don't have this backwards? > Legends & Lore says specificly that Gods need worshippers, and several > AD&D settings have mentioned gods whose powers have waned through loss of > worshippers (FR & GH). > On the other hand, I don't recall WotI stating that Immortals _need_ > worshippers. Correct me if I am wrong, here. > In my own Mystara campaigns, I point out that there are less priests > in the world, compared to other settings. Because Immortals don't need > followers, they are less likely to hand out powers. > Yep, I'm correcting you. Under the sections about Immortals gaining power it specifically says that they need worshippers. Any Immortal who loses all, or almost all, of his/her worshippers goes into a dormant state (on another plane I believe) and can be brought back by a religious revival. Also one way for Immortals to hurt each other is to cause doubt and loss of faith among the each others worshippers. _______ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: Sir George Anonymous Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 15:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] URGENT REQUEST Due to a Unix error, my copy of Digest #3 disappeared before I could archive it. Could some kind sole receiving the mailing list in digested version please email me a copy of it. My address is lcdavis@mailbox.syr.edu. Thanks for your help, >>> Sir George Anonymous <<< ************************************************************************** ** ** ** There are no Thyatians here. There are no Traladarans. There are ** ** only citizens of Karameikos. - King Stefan Karameikos, AC 1012 ** ** ** ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Sir George Anonymous Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 15:37:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V1 #4 Sorry for the double post before. My mailer's been acting up lately and it didn't like the "Reply To" address. - ------------------------------ >From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) >Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 11:05:59 EDT >Subject: [Mystara] Mucho Replies to Digest #1 > >Hello all. Finally found you guys. >Thanks for posting most of the digest Sir George, caught me up rather >nicely. Glad you could make it Bruce. You're welcome. >>The Mystara FAQ >>Mystara Index > >What would these include? The FAQ would include FAQ's :-). The think the index is supposed to be a listing of which product to find information about certain subjects. >>New Gazetteers > >For countries in the Hollow World, or cultures on Davania, Skothar, etc? Take your pick. >Or conversions of the Creature Crucibles to AD&D rules. I've been >working on some of them, which I'll either post/send or make available >some how when I get a reasonable number finished. Why wait? Why not post them as you get them completed? >>A discussion of how Mystara fits in with the Planescape setting. > >Excellent. Any suggestions on how to fit the spheres into the current >planar model? That's exactly what I had in mind. >>An index of non-Mystara products useful for a Mystara campaign. > >Hmmm. Someone mentioned HR1 Viking Sourcebook. I've also found the >Al-Qadim boxed set, and Complete Sha'irs HB to be useful for Ylaruam, >Sind, and Hule. And the psionics rules work well to explain the mental >powers of the people of the Most Serene Divinarchy of Yavdlom. Actually most of the HR series can have some application to Mystara. Also many areas of the Forgotten Realms are similar to areas of Mystara. >>A discussion on the differences between gods and immortals. >The only difference I've noticed is that Gods seem to have power all >there own, where Immortals derive their power from their worshippers. According to Planescape, a god without worshippers dies. Does that mean that gods and immortals are the same? If so, they why does the Karameikos boxed set imply otherwise? >Perhaps a better direction to go would be if the Gods and Immortals with >the same names are the samebeing, coincidentally named the same, or >imposters (and who is the imposter). Good point. >>Watash (Previously know as Landash) >>Mystara Water Wizards > >Could you resend these? These were in digest #3. As soon as I can get my hands on a copy of it, I'll repost them if it hasn't been done by then. >------------------------------ >From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) >Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 11:28:39 EDT >Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V1 #2 > >Another question, possibly related, about WotI. If the Nucleus of the >Spheres was altered to drain from Entropy instead of Energy shouldn't >that have stopped the Magic drain and started draining Evil instead? >But the Glantri Box Set says the artifact still drains Mystara's source >of magical energy. Hmmmmm. Missed that one. You *do* have a point. >> 2) Why didn't the Alfheim attack the Shadow Elves when the civil war >> broke out. > >No access to the Caverns, >they didn't know about it, >all available access was through Bad Magic Points, etc. Then how did the Shadow Elves get out? ===================================================================== Later, >>> Sir George Anonymous <<< ************************************************************************** ** ** ** There are no Thyatians here. There are no Traladarans. There are ** ** only citizens of Karameikos. - King Stefan Karameikos, AC 1012 ** ** ** ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:22:30 -0400 Subject: [Mystara] Mystara Space (Long) Since some one asked for this, and I am looking for more comments on the following I am posting it again. This material is a cross over from the spelljammer mailing list, but since it is details about the Mystara Solar system(Sphere) I thought others here may want to add their two cents since they are more experts on mystara then others. I am also posting this to the spelljammer list. Please if any of you have any info you want to add about additional planets please post or send them to me. Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com I have also added some new material General Layout of the Sphere/Solar System - ----------------------------------------------------------- Sun Mystara (with two moons) Largest of Planets(next to sun) Small unnamed planet Alphaita Belt(Asteroid belt - remains of Alphaita home world?) Watash ? ? ? Details on worlds------------------------------------------- Mystara: Sphere: Mystaraspace Orbital radius: 1st orbit from sun Type: Earth (Side Notes) A group of water wizards that left the Alphaita home world before it was destroyed made their way to Mystara. Here they settled in a peacful state in the gulf of Hule. Both groups now live in vast cities, castles that are deep underwater. Hidden from their evil brethren Fire and Earth Wizards. Mystara Water Wizards: If you are playing in the Wrath of the Immortals setting After the sinking of Alphaita, then you can have the water wizards move into the now sunken cities of the Air Wizards. Alphaita Belt -or- Cluster: Sphere: Mystaraspace Orbital radius: 3rd orbit from sun Type: Earth/Asteroid Belt Mean Diameter: ? Length of Day: ? Length of Year: ? Atmosphere: None Resources: Minerals, Plane shifting minerals Satellites: Many Inhabitants: Unknown This belt is the remains from the home world of the Alphaitians. Which was destroyed by their magics long ago. (In gazzetter time (2000+ years previous) AC 1001). Their world was destroyed leaving only origianlly a cluster of large rocks and debris. But after several thousand years the orbital track of the world created what is today known as the Alphaita Belt. The larger rock bodies contain slim air atmospheres, but little if no vegitation. If one looks hard enough through the belt they will come across the lairs of powerful wizards. These are wizards that survived the catalysm and have since rebuilt strong holds amoung the debris. These are always one of two type of wizards. Either a Fire wizard or a Air Wizard. Using added notes below: Certain large bodies of the belt disappear from time to time and then reappear. Sages have contributed this to the original makup of the planet which was rumored to be able to shift between two different planes of existance. [Side notes - has to be fit in] Alphatia was a world apart, a special place infused with an unbalance of Thought and Energy influence. Their plane was similar to Mystara/Mystarra's but the 'void' itself was breathable and had very strong solar currents. [qv. M1- Into the Maelstrom] To be able fit this in, maybe we could say that the world existed on two planes at once. Sort of like that Deepspace 9 episode where the planet phased in and out every so many years. When the Alphaitians finally destroyed their world it was left on the our current plane. This would give the asteroid belts minerals that would help in gate spells and plane shifting spells? Watash (Previously know as Landash): Sphere: Mystaraspace Orbital radius: 4th orbit from sun Type: Earth/Water Mean Diameter: ? Length of Day: ? Length of Year: ? Atmosphere: Standard Resources: Water Satellites: None Inhabitants: Most known races(Alphaitia Water Wizards) This was once a earth based world, but when the water wizards of Alphaita knew that the fire wizards and the air wizards were going to destroy their world the escaped. Two groups left. The first group (larger of the two) went to Landash. It was previously a low population world with little or no knowledge of magic. Mostly a technical civilization though no where near the tech state as City of the gods. They had large castles and fortresses and such. When the water wizards arrived on the planet they were able to quickly take over using their magics. They then began raising the oceans(Yea I saw water world and I loved it!). Soon all but the highest mountain ranges were under water. Since then it has become to be known as watash. ------------------------------ From: Electric Monk Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 17:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Mystara and Planescape Lo all, Since I seem to have been the only person on the list stupid enough to design a planescape net book I'll try to add what I have figured out about the current Mystara situation. Note this is purely conjucture and TSR will automatically come out with something contradictory in about a month or two so here it goes: _______________________________________ Mystara lies on an alternate Prime Material Plane, as does Athas. Mystara is surrounded by two demiplanes, The Nightmare Dimension and the Dimensional Vortex. Mystara does not have a crystal sphere but rather exists in an airless void like our universe. Mystaran Immortals are the creation of the Old Ones, who can be seen to be Greater Powers from beyond the reaches of the current multiverse (ie they live beyond the dimensional vortex and not in any of the "planes") Mystaran Immortals are really super powerful mortals who have transcended the normal mortal life. The do not reside on the Outer Planes, but rather in the Mystaran Plane. Unlike gods, who require the belief of followers to maintain their existence, the Immortals are maintained by their sphere. Also Mystara does not have any true gods, like Athas once again. The Old Ones are not gods either and come from beyond. _____________________________ Well thats all that I have leached from every Mystara, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Ravenloft produce ever made (yes I have them all) Personally I prefer to use DnD with Mystara, and all the cool rules for Dnd that the GAz series introduced.. (they are the only rule I like).. As for the planes I suggest using the Immortals Rules version with Mystara and forget about the ADnD planes. Stick to the original.. anyways the new Mystara stuff is only a rehash of the old stuff anyways.. PS. Has anyone ever noticed that the Original DnD rules when adding in all the additional stuff from the Gaz series and CC's and HW's and other books turned out to be more detailed, easier to use, and more complex than ADnD? I just find it strange how ADnD is advanced when the original is a better meta-system when one add on the Bruce Heard character creation rules..and then one throws in "Colors of Magic" from Dragon mag and poof.. it is a much better game.. hello? "the nice man who had subsequently acted so oddly to being shot at." --==<>==-- http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd/ ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mystara] Mystara and the SJ/PS paradigm Note: Becasue of it's cross over information, this is being sent to three different lists. Sorry to those who will have to suffer through it multiple times. Here is my view, as used in my campaigns, of how Mystara fits into the Spelljammer and Planescape paradigm. I should point out that I am not trying to be one hundred percent true to the information presented in Champions of Mystara (i.e. it's rules on space, and such). Instead, I am trying to fully integrate Mystara, while still maintaining what I believe to be it's charm. I just want to stress that this is how _I_ run things, and is not a judment on the stuff that others have posted. Air Wizards, Space Ships, French Wizards, and You One of the problems integrating Mystara fully into the Spelljammer and Planescape paradigm (SPP, from now on) is the large amount of cross-dimensional traffic. Three important examples of this are... 1) A technological space ship punched it's way through from another dimension and crashed landed on Mystara, leading to significant changes in the world. 2) After the war with the Fire Wizards, the Alphatian Air Wizards left their destroyed homeworld and traveled through into another dimension, ending up on Mystara. 3) The D'Ambrevilles and McGregors fled from persucation on an alternate Earth, into another dimension. Obviously, this doesn't fit in well with the SPP. As far as Planescape seems to be concerned, there is only one Prime. So, my solution is this... I have introduced a new concept in planes, called a dimension. A dimension is, basically, a macro-plane, of which a planar system is "conatained" in. So, PS's multiverse makes up its own dimension. And, just like its individual planes are part of a bigger whole, so is the multiverse. And, the way these dimensions are set up can vary quite a bit. What this does is to allow Mystara to be integrated into the SPP with little change. The above mentioned examples remain unaltered, yet they can interact with SJ and PS elements. In my campaign, I say that the barrier between dimensions is particularly weak in Mystaraspace, which is why there is so much cross dimensional traffic. The Mystara/D&D Planar Paradigm Although they bear certain similarities, there are some major differences between PS and D&D planar paradigms. The main being that D&D has no organized Outer Planes. For me, the answer was simple. Scrap the D&D version, and use PS. It's not really that big of a step, IMHO. Immortals vs. Gods One of the major differences between Mystara and AD&D settings are the Immortals. Athough similar in power levels, Immortals are not gods. With a few exceptions, they are individuals who rose to Immortality because of their deeds and determination. So, why is it that people can become Immortals in Mystaraspace, but not other crystal spheres? My answer is... The Old Ones. As discussed in the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set, The Old Ones (TOO) are an enigmatic group of people/gods/things that watch over Mystara, and the Immortals. TOO are more powerful than even Greater Gods, and created the first Immortals. Although it is other Immortals who lead mortals to Immortality as patrons, it is TOO that grant them this power. This is not known to anyone, even most Immortals. Why do they do this? Well, they are basically looking for canidates to join them. As described in WotI, some Immortals have been know to be drawn into the Vortex, thought to be the home of TOO. Many Immortals believe they are made into Old Ones, and in my campaign, they are right. Why they do this is unknown. Why do TOO only do this in Mystarapsace? Well, remember the weakend dimensional barrier? TOO are from another dimension. They cannot enter other spheres because the barriers there are full strength. There are several Immortals who have the names of other Gods, and this causes some problems. For example, there is an Immortal Thor, who gained his status in the normal, Immortal fasion: he earned it. Although he is the Immortal Odin's right hand man, he is not his son, or even related. But, there is also the god Thor, who is the son of the god Odin. This can cause some problems. To be honest, I haven't come up with a solid explanation, but here is my working theory... When The Old Ones decided to create the first Immortals, they felt it would be easier to start with something that was already powerful. So, through various means, they tricked several gods to send one of their avatars to Mystaraspace. Once there, they took these over, and imbued them with Immortality. But they didn't completely wipe their identities away, so they retained their names and personalities. Now, whenever an avatar wanders into Mystaraspace, they nab it, erase most of it's memory, subdue their power, then put them on Mystara, to see what they do. Some of them, like Thor, eventually rise to Immortality. Integrating Immortals into the SPP, they become full members of the divine community. That is, they have their own realms in the Outer Planes, where their petitioners go to upon death. They have proxies, like other gods. Although their origins are different, I consider them to be gods, for all intents and purposes. The relationship between gods and Immortals varies. Many gods feel that the Immortals are upstarts, and sneer at the idea of mortals reaching their status. Some, though, are fascinated by them, and are on good terms. Some just don't care. Well, that's all I can think of at the moment. Any questions? Please note that I just sat down and churned this out, in the space of twenty five minutes, so be kind. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Cthulhu, eh? I'll try and backstab him" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #5 *************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #6 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Friday, 13 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 006 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john horton Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and Planescape On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Electric Monk wrote: > PS. Has anyone ever noticed that the Original DnD rules when adding in > all the additional stuff from the Gaz series and CC's and HW's and > other books turned out to be more detailed, easier to use, and more > complex than ADnD? I just find it strange how ADnD is advanced when > the original is a better meta-system when one add on the Bruce Heard > character creation rules..and then one throws in "Colors of Magic" > from Dragon mag and poof.. it is a much better game.. hello? > I too feel that D&D is a better system than AD&D, but there's no arguing about tastes, as they say. I switched back to D&D partly because Mystara is such a great setting and the modules set there are terrific. I also found the updated rules (Basic, Expert, etc.) superior to both the original D&D rules and AD&D. Enough about that - we've all heard the debate too many times already. I'll just add that I was very disappointed to learn that D&D was no longer being supported. The point of this note is that I'm curious about the Bruce Heard rules mentioned above and the "Colors of Magic" article. Where can these be found? John Horton "...L.A. and that feeling like you were cut loose in a grid of light that just spilled out to the edge of everything." William Gibson, _Virtual_Light_ ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > On the other hand, I don't recall WotI stating that Immortals _need_ > > worshippers. Correct me if I am wrong, here. > > In my own Mystara campaigns, I point out that there are less priests > > in the world, compared to other settings. Because Immortals don't need > > followers, they are less likely to hand out powers. > > > Yep, I'm correcting you. Under the sections about Immortals gaining power > it specifically says that they need worshippers. Any Immortal who loses > all, or almost all, of his/her worshippers goes into a dormant state (on > another plane I believe) and can be brought back by a religious > revival. Also one way for Immortals to hurt each other is to cause > doubt and loss of faith among the each others worshippers. Goes to show that I need to read the Immortal rules a bit closer. IMHO, though, this rule seems a bit out of place with the rest of the rules... 1) Becoming an Immortal in the first place has nothing to do with gaining followers. None of the paths require anybody _worship_ the canidate, yet he/she/it may still rise to Immortality. 2) Gaining power, and advancing through the ranks has nothing to do with the number of followers an Immortal has. An Immortal does not have to increase his number of followers to increase his rank. Again, I may be wrong on these. Feel free to correct me. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 03:01:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > Goes to show that I need to read the Immortal rules a bit closer. > IMHO, though, this rule seems a bit out of place with the rest of the > rules... To me it seemed like a feeble attempt to integrate the gods and the immortals. Very feeble, since it didn't make sense in terms of how one rose to immortality I thought at the time - especially since one left one's mortal idedntity behind. > > 1) Becoming an Immortal in the first place has nothing to do with > gaining followers. None of the paths require anybody _worship_ the > canidate, yet he/she/it may still rise to Immortality. Very valid point - but one thing I've thought of since. Consider that the heroes are the superstars of their world, the stuff of legends. Now, if they publically ascended, as later immortals products seems to indicate, who's to say they don't have worshippers already ? Think of the rather hysterical fan base for Elvis, Madonna, and so on - don't they worship their idols ? On the other hand, this doesn't mesh at all with the Immortals as presented in the first boxed set, and I prefer that over the new WoI ones. > 2) Gaining power, and advancing through the ranks has nothing to do with > the number of followers an Immortal has. An Immortal does not have to > increase his number of followers to increase his rank. On the face of it, it doesn't - but having a large worshipper base protects you somewhat from the effects of a 'coup' against you. the larger the worshipper base, the more difficult to inflict a major coup on you. thus, if you want to rise, you'll have to gain a large follower base to protect yourself against those above you that would want to give you a righteous ducking. But this is retrofitting. I don't like having to do all this cludging - it feels like repairing a porshe with duct tape and wallpaper. It might work, but it's ugly as all-can-get-out. "Don't play with madness, madness doesn't play." -Charles Buckowski. ------------------------------ From: Electric Monk Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 07:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and Planescape About the rules by Bruce heard they first appeared in Gaz 10 Orcs of Thar and followed in the Creature Crucible series... they are the rules for making non-demihuman classes.. Also they include the Shaman Wiccan rules.. PS. Dragon PC's are possible but under these rules the xp restraints are amazing... "the nice man who had subsequently acted so oddly to being shot at." --==<>==-- http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd/ ------------------------------ From: Electric Monk Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 07:36:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Colors of Magic The article appeared in Dragon 200 I believe.. It describes a number of ways to use the mechanics of old spell to create new ones.. This works great with DnD since the base number of spells is only around 30 at first level for magic users..(an I include the ones from Alfheim, Minrothad Sea Magic, Darokin Trader, and the Shadow elf stuff here) Instead of say magic missle think of rotten green apple... Or a sleep spell that affects anyone the "magic dust" can hit..' you get the idea.. "the nice man who had subsequently acted so oddly to being shot at." --==<>==-- http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd/ ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 08:19:31 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and Planescape From: Electric Monk > > Mystaran Immortals are really super powerful mortals who > have transcended the normal mortal life. The do not reside > on the Outer Planes, but rather in the Mystaran Plane. > Unlike gods, who require the belief of followers to maintain > their existence, the Immortals are maintained by their sphere. I'll agree with you on everything but this. In Wrath of the Immortals, Book 1 under the heading Fading it states that one year after an Immortals last follower dies or abandons their faith the Immortal begins to fade. The full process of fading takes ten years. After this time the Immortal is in a dormant state elsewhere in the multiverse. If at some point faith in this Immortal is revived the Immortal will be awakened and once again be a 1st level Immortal. The only difference I can see between Immortals and Gods is that Gods die when they lose their followers, Immortals just fade and go dormant. _______ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 08:35:19 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Colors of Magic > From owner-mystara-l@io.com Fri Oct 13 07:41:19 1995 > Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 07:36:27 -0400 (EDT) > From: Electric Monk > X-Sender: goehrigd@gort > To: mystara-l@io.com > Subject: [Mystara] Colors of Magic > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII> > Content-Length: 638 > Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com > Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > X-Mdf: Mail for pierpont sent to pierpont@shelley.mitre.org > > > The article appeared in Dragon 200 I believe.. > > It describes a number of ways to use the mechanics of old spell to > create new ones.. This works great with DnD since the base number of > spells is only around 30 at first level for magic users..(an I include > the ones from Alfheim, Minrothad Sea Magic, Darokin Trader, and > the Shadow elf stuff here) > > Instead of say magic missle think of rotten green apple... > Or a sleep spell that affects anyone the "magic dust" > can hit..' > > you get the idea.. > Sort of. But I'd really like to know more, could you send a general summary of these rules? I won't ask for a full copy, cause that would be pushing that copyright thing. I just don't want to have to hunt down and buy a Dragon mag for one article. ______ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 08:45:29 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules Leroy Van Camp wrote: > On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > > > On the other hand, I don't recall WotI stating that Immortals _need_ > > > worshippers. Correct me if I am wrong, here. > > > In my own Mystara campaigns, I point out that there are less priests > > > in the world, compared to other settings. Because Immortals don't need > > > followers, they are less likely to hand out powers. > > > > > Yep, I'm correcting you. Under the sections about Immortals gaining power > > it specifically says that they need worshippers. Any Immortal who loses > > all, or almost all, of his/her worshippers goes into a dormant state (on > > another plane I believe) and can be brought back by a religious > > revival. Also one way for Immortals to hurt each other is to cause > > doubt and loss of faith among the each others worshippers. > > Goes to show that I need to read the Immortal rules a bit closer. > IMHO, though, this rule seems a bit out of place with the rest of the > rules... > > 1) Becoming an Immortal in the first place has nothing to do with > gaining followers. None of the paths require anybody _worship_ the > canidate, yet he/she/it may still rise to Immortality. True becoming Immortal has no direct requirement for worshipers (like the Dieties and Demigods method did). However, I doubt anyone could accomplish a path successfully and not gain worshippers of some type. I'd even rule that this is why the Karameikan Immortals (Halav, Petra, Zirchev) successfully attained Immortality even though they nearly failed to complete the path (Halav dies in battle but was resurrected to complete the path). Their people were so impressed with them that they raised them to god-like status, literally. > 2) Gaining power, and advancing through the ranks has nothing to do with > the number of followers an Immortal has. An Immortal does not have to > increase his number of followers to increase his rank. True again. However one of the ways an Immortal loses power is to suffer a loss of faith in their followers. I believe the reverse is also possible, a sudden upswing in the number of followers gives the Immortal power, but this has to be due to some success on the part of the Immortal. Also there are several mentions of a connection between Immortals and their followers, though no one knows exactly what it is. > Again, I may be wrong on these. Feel free to correct me. Can't say your wrong, but I can find something to support the other side. I don't have the original Immortals rules, so I have to go by WotI. _________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:03:54 AST Subject: [Mystara] [Magic] The 'rules' of the Colours of Magic. In essence, the article in Dragon 200 had no "real", game mechanic rules. The altered states of the spells were more flavour than anything else. Here are a couple of examples taken from the article: [spider worshipping goblin wokan] Sleep: as spell, no save, but must bite target (hit roll replaces saving throw), when the spell is active, greenish poison can be seen on his upper canines which grow into fangs. [Ice Mage] Web: new name "Freeze", same effects but instead of sticky webs, the victims are encased in a thin layer of ice over most of their body. Merely a "visual" alteration. [Elven Hunter] Lightning Bolt: new name "Heartseeker", spell temporarily enchants one non-magical arrow which is shot at the target. The damage (1d6/level) is channeled through the arrow and is played as the arrow hitting a vital organ (the heart). Note that this eliminates the bouncing effect on stone, and negates the hit roll for the arrow (the saving throw remians for the spell effect). Those were a few. For the most part keep things simple and as close to the original spell as possible, but make a few variations to keep it interesting. In my game, magic missiles are the most varied spell in the world, every mage has a new way of using it (fire bolts, assassin strikes, ice bolts, bolts of death energy, life energy, electricity, poison bolts, etc...). HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 09:02:59 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and the SJ/PS paradigm Leroy Van Camp wrote: > > Obviously, this doesn't fit in well with the SPP. As far as > Planescape seems to be concerned, there is only one Prime. So, my > solution is this... I'll start disagreeing here. According to Dark Sun and the first ed. Manual of the Planes, and the DM Option: High level HB (just browsed that section so forgive me if I'm wrong), there are multiple primes. At least two according to Dark Sun, and plenty more according to the others. Otherwise you have the problem of explaining Dark Sun's different Inner Planes. BTW, did they ever draw a correct diagram of the planes? You know one with the Inner planes on the inside? > I have introduced a new concept in planes, called a dimension. A > dimension is, basically, a macro-plane, of which a planar system is > "conatained" in. So, PS's multiverse makes up its own dimension. And, > just like its individual planes are part of a bigger whole, so is the > multiverse. And, the way these dimensions are set up can vary quite a > bit. > What this does is to allow Mystara to be integrated into the SPP with > little change. The above mentioned examples remain unaltered, yet they > can interact with SJ and PS elements. > In my campaign, I say that the barrier between dimensions is > particularly weak in Mystaraspace, which is why there is so much cross > dimensional traffic. Good working suggestion. I like it. No support in anything published, but I like it. > The Mystara/D&D Planar Paradigm > Although they bear certain similarities, there are some major > differences between PS and D&D planar paradigms. The main being that D&D > has no organized Outer Planes. > For me, the answer was simple. Scrap the D&D version, and use PS. > It's not really that big of a step, IMHO. Only problem is where do the spheres fit in? Realms of Outer Planes? Which planes? > Immortals vs. Gods > One of the major differences between Mystara and AD&D settings are the > Immortals. Athough similar in power levels, Immortals are not gods. With > a few exceptions, they are individuals who rose to Immortality because of > their deeds and determination. > So, why is it that people can become Immortals in Mystaraspace, but > not other crystal spheres? My answer is... The Old Ones. > As discussed in the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set, The Old Ones > (TOO) are an enigmatic group of people/gods/things that watch over > Mystara, and the Immortals. TOO are more powerful than even Greater Gods, > and created the first Immortals. Although it is other Immortals who lead > mortals to Immortality as patrons, it is TOO that grant them this power. > This is not known to anyone, even most Immortals. > Why do they do this? Well, they are basically looking for canidates > to join them. As described in WotI, some Immortals have been know to be > drawn into the Vortex, thought to be the home of TOO. Many Immortals > believe they are made into Old Ones, and in my campaign, they are right. > Why they do this is unknown. A fairly plausible explination, this fits all the published material as well. Good work. > Why do TOO only do this in Mystarapsace? Well, remember the weakend > dimensional barrier? TOO are from another dimension. They cannot enter > other spheres because the barriers there are full strength. > There are several Immortals who have the names of other Gods, and this > causes some problems. For example, there is an Immortal Thor, who gained > his status in the normal, Immortal fasion: he earned it. Although he is > the Immortal Odin's right hand man, he is not his son, or even related. > But, there is also the god Thor, who is the son of the god Odin. This can > cause some problems. To be honest, I haven't come up with a solid > explanation, but here is my working theory... > When The Old Ones decided to create the first Immortals, they felt it > would be easier to start with something that was already powerful. So, > through various means, they tricked several gods to send one of their > avatars to Mystaraspace. Once there, they took these over, and imbued > them with Immortality. But they didn't completely wipe their identities > away, so they retained their names and personalities. > Now, whenever an avatar wanders into Mystaraspace, they nab it, erase > most of it's memory, subdue their power, then put them on Mystara, to see > what they do. Some of them, like Thor, eventually rise to Immortality. > Integrating Immortals into the SPP, they become full members of the > divine community. That is, they have their own realms in the Outer > Planes, where their petitioners go to upon death. They have proxies, like > other gods. Although their origins are different, I consider them to be > gods, for all intents and purposes. > The relationship between gods and Immortals varies. Many gods feel > that the Immortals are upstarts, and sneer at the idea of mortals reaching > their status. Some, though, are fascinated by them, and are on good > terms. Some just don't care. I don't know about the Avatar bit. That's giving the Old Ones alot of credit, being able to seperate some of a Gods power from it. > Well, that's all I can think of at the moment. Any questions? > Please note that I just sat down and churned this out, in the space > of twenty five minutes, so be kind. Not bad for 25 minutes. I'm collecting all the theories, so I'll see if I can't come up with something. ___________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 07:26:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and the SJ/PS paradigm On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > Leroy Van Camp wrote: > > > > Obviously, this doesn't fit in well with the SPP. As far as > > Planescape seems to be concerned, there is only one Prime. So, my > > solution is this... > > I'll start disagreeing here. According to Dark Sun and the first ed. > Manual of the Planes, and the DM Option: High level HB (just browsed > that section so forgive me if I'm wrong), there are multiple primes. At > least two according to Dark Sun, and plenty more according to the > others. Otherwise you have the problem of explaining Dark Sun's > different Inner Planes. Actually, I have no problem explaining Dark Sun's planar paradigm: I just don't bother. I'm not particularly fond of DS, so it is not part of my multiverse. As for MotP, remember that it is no longer canon, according to much of the material in Planescape. For example, MotP says that the various TSR worlds are on different Primes, and that each has it's Ethereal Plane. This is no longer true. I don't have the HLHB, so I can't comment. Overall, it seems to me that this all boils down to a lack of continuity on TSR's part. The PS boxed set says there is only one Prime, and I don't recall any later PS products contradicting this. > BTW, did they ever draw a correct diagram of the planes? You know one with the Inner planes on the inside? The Planescape boxed set comes with an excellent diagram of the multiverse. > > I have introduced a new concept in planes, called a dimension. A > > dimension is, basically, a macro-plane, of which a planar system is > > "conatained" in. So, PS's multiverse makes up its own dimension. And, > > just like its individual planes are part of a bigger whole, so is the > > multiverse. And, the way these dimensions are set up can vary quite a > > bit. > > What this does is to allow Mystara to be integrated into the SPP with > > little change. The above mentioned examples remain unaltered, yet they > > can interact with SJ and PS elements. > > In my campaign, I say that the barrier between dimensions is > > particularly weak in Mystaraspace, which is why there is so much cross > > dimensional traffic. > > Good working suggestion. I like it. No support in anything published, but I like it. Just a reminder for all of the stuff I wrote in this post: I made it all up. It's not in any books. It is just how I work my own campaigns. > > The Mystara/D&D Planar Paradigm > > Although they bear certain similarities, there are some major > > differences between PS and D&D planar paradigms. The main being that D&D > > has no organized Outer Planes. > > For me, the answer was simple. Scrap the D&D version, and use PS. > > It's not really that big of a step, IMHO. > > Only problem is where do the spheres fit in? Realms of Outer Planes? > Which planes? Here's a quote from the Codex of the Immortals, page 4... "A Sphere is not the same as a plane. A Sphere of Power does not exist as a place; characters can never go to the "Sphere of Matter", for example. Instead, a Sphere is an ingredient. Ecery plane is made up of all five Sphere of Power, but each plane contains a different balance." So, this really doesn't change anything. All planes in the PS paradigm are composed of all the SoP, it's just in Mystaraspace that this is a well known fact to any but the gods. > I don't know about the Avatar bit. That's giving the Old Ones alot of > credit, being able to seperate some of a Gods power from it. In my version, the Old Ones _are_ this powerful, within Mystaraspace, where the dimensional barrier is weak. Besides, they are not dealing with the gods themselves, but rather their Avatars, which hold only a small portion of the gods full power. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Cthulhu, eh? I'll try and backstab him" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Electric Monk Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:35:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and Planescape On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > I'll agree with you on everything but this. >In Wrath of the Immortals, Book 1 under the heading Fading >it states that one year after an Immortals last follower dies >or abandons their faith the Immortal begins to fade. >The full process of fading takes ten years. After this time >the Immortal is in a dormant state elsewhere in the multiverse. >If at some point faith in this Immortal is revived the Immortal >will be awakened and once again be a 1st level Immortal. Well, I personally think that WOTI was a major mistake, and will not use it.. It is IMHO silly beyond recompense. I use Box Set 5 for dealing with Immortals.. IMHO it is the best thing TSR ever did.. Sure they say it should replace the old system but the old one was better on many levels.. so what it was a bit complex.. Things maid sense and Immortals were cool.. now they are just very powerful magic-user/druid/cleric/fighter/thiefs which is a waste of good paper.. Gods can die BTW.. it just takes a long time. "the nice man who had subsequently acted so oddly to being shot at." --==<>==-- http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd/ ------------------------------ From: Electric Monk Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:36:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Colors of Magic I'll write it up saturday and post it sunday.. my server is going to be down tomorrow.. "the nice man who had subsequently acted so oddly to being shot at." --==<>==-- http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd/ ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 07:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > Leroy Van Camp wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > > > 1) Becoming an Immortal in the first place has nothing to do with > > gaining followers. None of the paths require anybody _worship_ the > > canidate, yet he/she/it may still rise to Immortality. > > True becoming Immortal has no direct requirement for worshipers (like the > Dieties and Demigods method did). However, I doubt anyone could > accomplish a path successfully and not gain worshippers of some type. > I'd even rule that this is why the Karameikan Immortals (Halav, Petra, > Zirchev) successfully attained Immortality even though they nearly > failed to complete the path (Halav dies in battle but was resurrected to > complete the path). Their people were so impressed with them that they > raised them to god-like status, literally. I have to disagree with this. _Worship_, used properly, is a heavy word. I don't believe that just because a person achieves some measure of greatness, they are going to gain a body of people who consider the divine and god-like. A variety of the tasks for a path have little to do with dealing with the masses. For example, take the path of the Paragon. Excepting the apprentices they must teach, and the wizards they must defeat, it is possible for this path to have no effect on virtually anyone's life. Followers are unlikely to be gained from this. As for the Traladaran Immortals, WotI states that they followed paths, and had Immortal patrons, just like most other Immortals. They did not start down the paths until after the war with the Beast Men. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #6 *************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #7 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Friday, 13 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 007 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Electric Monk Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:53:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] WOTI vs Immortal Rules Well lets clear up some little silly facts: 1.) WOTI - requires Immortals to have followers just doesn't give a number for how many they need Immortal Rules- (set 5 for those who count) did not require the Immortals to have followers 2.) WOTI - restricts Immortals to make their home in the Mystara Prime Plane Immortal Rules- had a different planar arrangement from ADND and so each Immortal had his own plane 3.) WOTI - Immortals are a lot like gods in terms of position but are just very powerful mortals in play Immortal Rules - Immortals are a lot less powerful and are more stewards of reality than controlers ____________________________ Planar Physics and Planar Geography and Spell Jamming- Okay this is what you really need to know- _Geography of Planes_ Mystara Space - DOES NOT EXIST ACCORDING TO THE POOR WIZARDS ALMANAC Mystara has no crystal sphere and does not exist on the same plane as Oerth, Toril, and Krynn. For that matter neither does Athas, and Ravenloft is in the deep ethereal. _Planar Physics_ Immortals are not linked to the outer planes in the way true powers are. Powers derive their existence from the beliefs of their followers and are are "fead" through connection linking the prime world to the outer planes (DS - CBTSS) with out these connection no powers would exist. Also the outerplanes exist to reflect the beliefs of everyone. however Mystara is not heavily linked to the outer planes. Demi-planes can form around a particular prime (Athas has the Grey and the Black (see Prism Pentad Series and DSMC2) one is where the dead go since the links to the outer planes don't exist and the other is Raajat's prison.) Mystara has at least one demiplane maybe two - Nightmare Dimension is the major one. (Dimensional Vortex?? probably) Spell Jamming - works Okay in Mystara just that you'd have to find a portal big enough to fit the ship through to get it there. Optionally use an Alphatian or Heldanic Air ship. The create air spell on a magical vessle would also serve just as well.. One thing that might work well are Ether Clippers.. Ships the ride the currents of ether that surround the planet.. unfortunately ether does not exist so you'd have to add it into your game.. "the nice man who had subsequently acted so oddly to being shot at." --==<>==-- http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd/ ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mystara] Re: Mystara and the SJ/PS paradigm On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Ken Lipka wrote: > Leroy Van Camp III stated: > > > I have introduced a new concept in planes, called a dimension. A > > dimension is, basically, a macro-plane, of which a planar system is > > "conatained" in. So, PS's multiverse makes up its own dimension. And, > > just like its individual planes are part of a bigger whole, so is the > > multiverse. And, the way these dimensions are set up can vary quite a > > bit. > > What this does is to allow Mystara to be integrated into the SPP with > > little change. The above mentioned examples remain unaltered, yet they > > can interact with SJ and PS elements. > > > A neat idea, but far too much work for the integration. Looking over your response, I believe my idea could have been better written, because there seems to be some confusion here. The whole dimension thing takes virtually zero work to integrate. > That simple equation eliminates the need for all of the mental > gymnastics associated with trying to figure out which dimensional outer plane > some god is on. I'm not sure what you mean here. I'll try again, from a different angle. Take the multiverse, as delineated in the Planescape setting. Nothing has changed; all the planes are the same, and all they gods are in the same place. Again, nothing changes here. Now, as an example, take the concept of demi-planes. Although they are, for the most part, planes unto themselves, with laws of reality of their own, they are contained within another plane, the Ethereal. OK? Now, imagine that the multiverse, like demi-planes, is contained within a larger, macro-plane. This does not change the multiverse, it just makes it a part of a larger whole. Now, imagaine that this macro-plane, or dimension, is a part of a "community" of dimensions, like each Outer Plane is part of a bigger whole. Each of these dimensions has it's own layout and laws. For example, the dimension that the crashed spaceship is from is layed out like our own, as detailed in the Wrath of the Immortals. Between each dimesnion is a barrier that works to prevent cross-traffic, just like planar barriers, only stronger. For some reason, this barrier is weak in Mystaraspace. What this concept does is... 1) It allows the history and concepts of the other-dimensional elements of Mystara to be retained without _any_ changes. By not having to shoehorn these elements into the multiverse, much work is eliminated. 2) It does the above without making a single change to the multiverse itself. The dimesnion concept is a pain free, no work idea that allows the Mystara setting to be integrated into the SJ/PS paradigm, while still retaining its history and flavor. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Cthulhu, eh? I'll try and backstab him" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Electric Monk Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:16:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and the SJ/PS paradigm On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > Leroy Van Camp wrote: > > > > Obviously, this doesn't fit in well with the SPP. As far as > > Planescape seems to be concerned, there is only one Prime. So, my > > solution is this... wrong.. planescape allows for multiple parrallel primes which are collectively known as the PRIME PLANE.. don't get me started on how badly TSR has been messing up notions of space and time.. Face it people it should be non-linear.. that is how it is in our world why mess up a great story generator and setting as an infinite universe > > I'll start disagreeing here. According to Dark Sun and the first ed. > Manual of the Planes, and the DM Option: High level HB (just browsed >that section so forgive me if I'm wrong), there are multiple primes. At >least two according to Dark Sun, and plenty more according to the >others. Otherwise you have the problem of explaining Dark Sun's >different Inner Planes. > Bruse is correct here.. Athas can not exist on the same plane a Krynn and was never meant to be.. Bruce is misguided in that the inner planes are not differnt for Dark Sun they are just labled differently it says so in EAFW > BTW, did they ever draw a correct diagram of the planes? >You know one with the Inner planes on the inside? Correct? Sort of.. in the PS boxed set they have it set up in that way but because of how they are shaped it is a bunch of close ups linked to a common center.. there is a good one in the old Dieties and Demigods however.. its in a sphere.. > > I have introduced a new concept in planes, called a dimension. A > > dimension is, basically, a macro-plane, of which a planar system is > > "conatained" in. So, PS's multiverse makes up its own dimension. And, > > just like its individual planes are part of a bigger whole, so is the > > multiverse. And, the way these dimensions are set up can vary quite a > > bit. Not a new idea it appeared in the first Immortal Rules boxed set for reg DnD... It just hasn't caught on with Adnd.. pitty.. > > What this does is to allow Mystara to be integrated into the SPP with > > little change. The above mentioned examples remain unaltered, yet they > > can interact with SJ and PS elements. Alternate prime works better.. this allows you to keep the Dimensional Vortex as the barrier to the 6th dimension.. but then you have to rework the magaling of the 5th.. the Nightmare Dimension which has since become a demiplane.. arrgghh > > The Mystara/D&D Planar Paradigm > > Although they bear certain similarities, there are some major > > differences between PS and D&D planar paradigms. The main being that D&D > > has no organized Outer Planes. > > For me, the answer was simple. Scrap the D&D version, and use PS. > > It's not really that big of a step, IMHO. I personally liek the DnD version more.. funny considering I spend more time using the PS version.. > > Only problem is where do the spheres fit in? Realms of Outer Planes? >Which planes? > Spheres according to nearly every supplement do not have a physical location. They exist beyond the normal concepts of space and time and probably should remain that way. In reality, the sphere are that which maintain the Immortals existence and so this business in WOTI about followers is missguided. > > Immortals vs. Gods > > One of the major differences between Mystara and AD&D settings are the > > Immortals. Athough similar in power levels, Immortals are not gods. With > > a few exceptions, they are individuals who rose to Immortality because of > > their deeds and determination. Either that or they just don't remeber.. There are only 3 Immortals who do not have a birth story... > > So, why is it that people can become Immortals in Mystaraspace, but > > not other crystal spheres? My answer is... The Old Ones. Sorry but Myst ain't got no sphere.. > > As discussed in the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set, The Old Ones > > (TOO) are an enigmatic group of people/gods/things that watch over > > Mystara, and the Immortals. TOO are more powerful than even Greater Gods, > > and created the first Immortals. Although it is other Immortals who lead > > mortals to Immortality as patrons, it is TOO that grant them this power. > > This is not known to anyone, even most Immortals. Better yet.. go back to when they first appeared set 5 and you will find that they are actually creating Immortals to fuel their own ranks.. If you can reach Grand Hierarch (36th level immortal) twice... you get sucked away to join them.. This has happened only 2 time.. Rad is the only one who currently has a good chance of doing it again.. hint hint hint... > > Why do they do this? Well, they are basically looking for canidates > > to join them. As described in WotI, some Immortals have been know to be > > drawn into the Vortex, thought to be the home of TOO. Many Immortals > > believe they are made into Old Ones, and in my campaign, they are right. > > Why they do this is unknown. Some things of note that the Old Ones come from beyond the 6th dimension. Mortals are three dimensional beigns 1st 2nd 3rd.. Nightmare creatures come form the 3rd 4th and 5th dimensions. Immortals occupy the 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th The old ones lie beyond the 5th.. The lie outside of the Multiverse in all systems.. > I don't know about the Avatar bit. >That's giving the Old Ones alot of credit, >being able to seperate some of a Gods power from it. This is not the case.. Thor in Mystara was once a mortal from Mystara. Thor of Ysgard is a power born of the belief in the Icelandic Diety. They are separate and distinct. Anyways Old Ones are not the Gods. Also there is the little known fact that the ADND gods were created by an over-god.. sometimes refered to as Ao in the Realms.. Ao himself was created by something else.. My guess is the Old Ones (aka Gary Gayax) Then there is the entire PS thing that the game is just a creation of the great god / power / Old One DUNGEON MASTER (tm) better yet lets stick to Gary.. "the nice man who had subsequently acted so oddly to being shot at." --==<>==-- http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd/ ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] WOTI vs Immortal Rules On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Electric Monk wrote: > Planar Physics and Planar Geography and Spell Jamming- > > Okay this is what you really need to know- I'm not sure if this is directed at me, but since I am the one churning all of this stuff out, I assume it is. I already know all of the facts you presented. And, they are irrellevent. As I stated in previous postings, it is my intent ot put forward ideas on fully integrating Mystara into PS/SJ, which means... > _Geography of Planes_ > > Mystara Space - DOES NOT EXIST ACCORDING TO THE POOR WIZARDS ALMANAC > Mystara has no crystal sphere and does not exist > on the same plane as Oerth, Toril, and Krynn. ...that in my campaign, there _is_ a Mystaraspace, regardless of what PWA says. To _fully_ integrate Mystara, certains canonical facts are going to have to be discarded. > Also the outerplanes exist to reflect the beliefs of everyone. > however Mystara is not heavily linked to the outer planes. ...that in my campaign, Mystara is as fully linked to the planes as any other standard world, using the PS model, not the one presented in WotI/Rules Cyclopedia. > Mystara has at least one demiplane maybe two - Nightmare Dimension > is the major one. (Dimensional Vortex?? probably) ....that in my campaign, the Nightmare Dimension is just that, a dimension. (see my other posts on dimensions) > Spell Jamming - works Okay in Mystara just that you'd have to find a > portal big enough to fit the ship through to get it there. > Optionally use an Alphatian or Heldanic Air ship. ....that Spelljamming works no different in Mystaraspace as it does anywhere else. The old paradigm on space has been tossed in favor of the SJ model. Sorry if I sound frustrated, but many of the responses, both on the list and private, seem to be missing the point that I am not giving my interpretaion of the rules, but rather discussing how _I_ do things in my own campaigns. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and the SJ/PS paradigm On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Electric Monk wrote: > On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > Leroy Van Camp wrote: > > > > > > Obviously, this doesn't fit in well with the SPP. As far as > > > Planescape seems to be concerned, there is only one Prime. So, my > > > solution is this... > > wrong.. planescape allows for multiple parrallel primes > which are collectively known as the PRIME PLANE.. don't get me started > on how badly TSR has been messing up notions of space and time.. > Face it people it should be non-linear.. that is how it is in our world > why mess up a great story generator and setting as an infinite universe Did you notice the word "seems" in there? This implies that I am not fully sure on the subject. As for parallel primes, where does Planescape discuss them? I admit I may have missed something, and would like to go back and check. > > > I have introduced a new concept in planes, called a dimension. A > > > dimension is, basically, a macro-plane, of which a planar system is > > > "conatained" in. So, PS's multiverse makes up its own dimension. And, > > > just like its individual planes are part of a bigger whole, so is the > > > multiverse. And, the way these dimensions are set up can vary quite a > > > bit. > > Not a new idea it appeared in the first Immortal Rules boxed set for > reg DnD... It just hasn't caught on with Adnd.. pitty.. Not "new" as in "completely frsh and original", but rather as in "this wasn't part of it before." And I don't own the old Immortals boxed set, so I can't comment on that. > Sorry but Myst ain't got no sphere.. No, neither _your_, nor the _official_ Mystara has a crystal sphere. But as I explained fourty billion times, I wasn't discussing them. I was discussing _my_ Mystara and presenting ideas for full integration, not presenting it all as book-quotable fact. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 12:35:29 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and the SJ/PS paradigm > On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > > Leroy Van Camp wrote: > > > > > > Obviously, this doesn't fit in well with the SPP. As far as > > > Planescape seems to be concerned, there is only one Prime. So, my > > > solution is this... > > wrong.. planescape allows for multiple parrallel primes > which are collectively known as the PRIME PLANE.. don't get me started > on how badly TSR has been messing up notions of space and time.. > Face it people it should be non-linear.. that is how it is in our world > why mess up a great story generator and setting as an infinite universe > > > > > I'll start disagreeing here. According to Dark Sun and the first ed. > > Manual of the Planes, and the DM Option: High level HB (just browsed > >that section so forgive me if I'm wrong), there are multiple primes. At > >least two according to Dark Sun, and plenty more according to the > >others. Otherwise you have the problem of explaining Dark Sun's > >different Inner Planes. > > > Bruse is correct here.. Athas can not exist on the same plane a Krynn > and was never meant to be.. Bruce is misguided in that the inner planes > are not differnt for Dark Sun they are just labled differently > it says so in EAFW Sorry, wasn't allowed to read that (my DS DM's choice). > > BTW, did they ever draw a correct diagram of the planes? > >You know one with the Inner planes on the inside? > > Correct? Sort of.. in the PS boxed set they have it set up in that > way but because of how they are shaped it is a bunch of close ups > linked to a common center.. there is a good one in the old Dieties > and Demigods however.. its in a sphere.. Dieties and Demigods has the Inner planes in a ring around the Prime, floating in kind of an ethereal soup. Manual of the planes has them in a sphere, but surrounding the Prime. Every diagram I've ever seen has the Inner planes "outside" of the prime and the Outer planes "inside". > Alternate prime works better.. this allows you to keep the Dimensional Vortex > as the barrier to the 6th dimension.. but then you have to rework the > magaling of the 5th.. the Nightmare Dimension which has since become a > demiplane.. arrgghh I'd give Nightmare a special clissification kind of a binary plane (like binary stars) to Mystara, each is the product of the others dreams, fears, etc. > > > > Only problem is where do the spheres fit in? Realms of Outer Planes? > >Which planes? > > > Spheres according to nearly every supplement do not have a physical location. > They exist beyond the normal concepts of space and time and probably should > remain that way. In reality, the sphere are that which maintain the > Immortals existence and so this business in WOTI about followers is > missguided. > The only problem is the entire series of events in WotI is based on the concept of Immortals needing followers. Rad knows he'd lose a direct fight with Ixion (being generous Rad might live long enough to attempt a counterattack) so he fights the only way he can, using followers. > > > Immortals vs. Gods > > > One of the major differences between Mystara and AD&D settings are the > > > Immortals. Athough similar in power levels, Immortals are not gods. With > > > a few exceptions, they are individuals who rose to Immortality because of > > > their deeds and determination. > > Either that or they just don't remeber.. There are only 3 Immortals who > do not have a birth story... Three? I can only think of 2. Ixion and Thanatos. Who's the third? > > > So, why is it that people can become Immortals in Mystaraspace, but > > > not other crystal spheres? My answer is... The Old Ones. > > Sorry but Myst ain't got no sphere.. > > > > As discussed in the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set, The Old Ones > > > (TOO) are an enigmatic group of people/gods/things that watch over > > > Mystara, and the Immortals. TOO are more powerful than even Greater Gods, > > > and created the first Immortals. Although it is other Immortals who lead > > > mortals to Immortality as patrons, it is TOO that grant them this power. > > > This is not known to anyone, even most Immortals. > > Better yet.. go back to when they first appeared set 5 and you will find that > they are actually creating Immortals to fuel their own ranks.. If you can > reach Grand Hierarch (36th level immortal) twice... you get sucked away > to join them.. This has happened only 2 time.. Rad is the only one who > currently has a good chance of doing it again.. hint hint hint... Rad has no chance of doing it again. He was taken by the Old One at the end of WotI to be punished, not rewarded. (qv Mark of Amber) > > > > Why do they do this? Well, they are basically looking for canidates > > > to join them. As described in WotI, some Immortals have been know to be > > > drawn into the Vortex, thought to be the home of TOO. Many Immortals > > > believe they are made into Old Ones, and in my campaign, they are right. > > > Why they do this is unknown. > > Some things of note that the Old Ones come from beyond the 6th dimension. > Mortals are three dimensional beigns 1st 2nd 3rd.. Nightmare creatures come > form the 3rd 4th and 5th dimensions. Immortals occupy the 1st 2nd 3rd > and 4th The old ones lie beyond the 5th.. The lie outside of the Multiverse > in all systems.. > > > I don't know about the Avatar bit. > >That's giving the Old Ones alot of credit, > >being able to seperate some of a Gods power from it. > > This is not the case.. Thor in Mystara was once a mortal from Mystara. > Thor of Ysgard is a power born of the belief in the Icelandic Diety. > They are separate and distinct. Anyways Old Ones are not the Gods. > Also there is the little known fact that the ADND gods were created > by an over-god.. sometimes refered to as Ao in the Realms.. > Ao himself was created by something else.. My guess is the Old Ones > (aka Gary Gayax) > > Then there is the entire PS thing that the game is just a creation of the > great god / power / Old One > > DUNGEON MASTER (tm) > > better yet lets stick to Gary.. _______________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 14:09:17 AST Subject: [Mystara] Immortals without Life Stories >>>> Immortals vs. Gods >>>> One of the major differences between Mystara and AD&D settings are the >>>> Immortals. Athough similar in power levels, Immortals are not gods. With >>>> a few exceptions, they are individuals who rose to Immortality because of >>>> their deeds and determination. >> >> Either that or they just don't remeber.. There are only 3 Immortals who >> do not have a birth story... > > Three? I can only think of 2. Ixion and Thanatos. Who's the third? Ixion/Solarios (Energy) Thanatos (Entropy) Odin/Wotan (Thought) Korotiku the Spider (Thought) Hel (Entropy) Nyx/Death (Entropy) ???? (one for Time) HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Berg Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 09:08:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and the SJ/PS paradigm Well, the Old Ones were mentioned back in the immortal rules for OD&D, and if Immortals are gods, you do not want to know what an Old One can do. The description of Old Ones in the book is something along the lines of the one for greater gods in 2nd edition L&L. But there is an entire RACE of Old Ones with that power level (or possibly higher, since greater gods have some limits, and none have been mentioned for the Old Ones). ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 13:17:03 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules Leroy Van Camp wrote: > I have to disagree with this. _Worship_, used properly, is a heavy > word. I don't believe that just because a person achieves some measure > of greatness, they are going to gain a body of people who consider the > divine and god-like. A variety of the tasks for a path have little to do > with dealing with the masses. > For example, take the path of the Paragon. Excepting the apprentices > they must teach, and the wizards they must defeat, it is possible for this > path to have no effect on virtually anyone's life. Followers are > unlikely to be gained from this. IIRC Paragon says they must be _recognized_ as the most powerful wizard within X miles where X is some obscene number. That means some outsider who walks into that little village and asks who is the most powerful wizard in the land better hear your name and your name only. Worship is a very heavy word, and if the paths are handled properly the deeds required should be on the scale of Hercules, Siegfried, Gilgamesh, etc. people who achieved God-like status through heroic acts. I think one of the thing Wrath was trying to do is give the Immortals more of a 'these poeple will live on in our hearts, minds, and legends forever' feel. __________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 13:50:14 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals without Life Stories > > >>>> Immortals vs. Gods > >>>> One of the major differences between Mystara and AD&D settings are the > >>>> Immortals. Athough similar in power levels, Immortals are not gods. With > >>>> a few exceptions, they are individuals who rose to Immortality because of > >>>> their deeds and determination. > >> > >> Either that or they just don't remeber.. There are only 3 Immortals who > >> do not have a birth story... > > > > Three? I can only think of 2. Ixion and Thanatos. Who's the third? > > Ixion/Solarios (Energy) > Thanatos (Entropy) I remember these two. > Odin/Wotan (Thought) Now that you mention it, I do remember this one too. > Korotiku the Spider (Thought) I'll have to look on this, wasn't he originally a Nithian? > Hel (Entropy) > Nyx/Death (Entropy) One of these two was a Vampire creature from another dimension (Nyx I believe) and I can't remember the other one. > ???? (one for Time) Rather appropriately all the Time Immortals remember their Immortal existence. Your probably think of Koronus who has forgotten some of the details about becoming Immortal, most notably his sponsor. It is possible that he actually sponsored himself to Immortality. _________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > Leroy Van Camp wrote: > > > For example, take the path of the Paragon. Excepting the apprentices > > they must teach, and the wizards they must defeat, it is possible for this > > path to have no effect on virtually anyone's life. Followers are > > unlikely to be gained from this. > > IIRC Paragon says they must be _recognized_ as the most powerful wizard > within X miles where X is some obscene number. That means some outsider > who walks into that little village and asks who is the most powerful > wizard in the land better hear your name and your name only. Looks like it's my turn to correct you. =) You are confusing two seperate things... 1) The wizard must transform the land within one hundred miles of his base of operations. 2) He must be acknowledged as the superior to the wizards he duels. None of these necessarily require recognition by a large quantity of people, and certainly not by anyone who worships the person. > Worship is > a very heavy word, and if the paths are handled properly the deeds > required should be on the scale of Hercules, Siegfried, Gilgamesh, etc. > people who achieved God-like status through heroic acts. I think one of > the thing Wrath was trying to do is give the Immortals more of a 'these > poeple will live on in our hearts, minds, and legends forever' feel. I agree that most of the paths are set up so a character recieves bulk recognition for his deeds, but this is not a factor of all of them. But, I still think it was poorly executed, and the connection between Immortals and their worshippers seems tenuous on many points. Although you have brought up some good points, the rules seem to make no connection between followers and achieving Immortality, and the idea that they need worshippers to remain active seems an afterthought. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #7 *************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #8 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Saturday, 14 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 008 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Berg Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:05:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals without Life Stories As I recall, Valerias. ------------------------------ From: Electric Monk Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 14:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] WOTI vs Immortal Rules On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > And, they are irrellevent. As I stated in previous > postings, it is my intent ot put forward ideas on fully integrating > Mystara into PS/SJ, which means... It may be irrelavent to your case but my post was not targeted to you inparticular.. that may be the cause of some confusion. > > Spell Jamming - works Okay in Mystara just that you'd have to find a > > portal big enough to fit the ship through to get it there. > > Optionally use an Alphatian or Heldanic Air ship. > > ....that Spelljamming works no different in Mystaraspace as it does > anywhere else. The old paradigm on space has been tossed in favor of the > SJ model. Well Spell Jamming doesn't work on Athas nor does it work in the Outer Planes... As a rule however.. TSR still hasn't detailed a new verison of Mystara space.. the literature would indicate that it is on a differnt sort of system though. > Sorry if I sound frustrated, but many of the responses, both on the > list and private, seem to be missing the point that I am not giving my > interpretaion of the rules, but rather discussing how _I_ do things in my > own campaigns. I am simply pointing out what the current system is.. I am not addressing these at what you do... I'm presenting the other system so that we can compare the two.. Please do not take this to be a slight on your ideas.. "the nice man who had subsequently acted so oddly to being shot at." --==<>==-- http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd/ ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mystara] Re: [SPELLJAMMER:736] Mystara and PS/SPJ On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Ken Lipka wrote: > Zero work, eh? What about how many other dimensions there are? Does > Odin live on the same Outer Plane in each dimension? Does Odin even exist on > the other dimensional Outer Planes? If there are multiple Odins, why? A god > should be able to cross dimensional barriers very easily. And as such, that > means that all gods are actually avatars for the true version of themselves > and that there is a base dimension where the gods REALLY live. > I knew exactly what sort of image you wanted to present, and it is > entirely too messy. I'm sorry, but your making it more difficult than it really is... 1) I never said I was going to detail these alternate dimensions. This may sound like a cop out, but it's not. The whole dimension idea was for color and a rationale, not as a new place for PC's to visit. 2) I never said these were _alternate_ dimensions. That is, they are not slightly different versions of the multiverse. 3) Who says gods should be able to cross dimensional barriers easily? Gods in AD&D are hardly omnipotent, omniscient forces. The gods can't even get into the prime material plane half the time! 4) Odin is Odin. There are no alternate Odins, becasue the dimensions are not alternate dimensions. As I stated in the original posting, each dimension can have a radically different layout. > > What this concept does is... > > > > 1) It allows the history and concepts of the other-dimensional elements > > of Mystara to be retained without _any_ changes. By not having to > > shoehorn these elements into the multiverse, much work is eliminated. > > > Making dimension equal crystal sphere does exactly the same thing. > The elements IN THE MYSTARA SETTING are not changed at all - beings from other > dimensions are still beings from other dimenstions (to the Mystarans). But > from a god's eye point of view, they are only people from another crystal > sphere and are not bothering to correct the misconceptions of those native to > the Mystaran crystal sphere. > Thus, events are not shoehorned in the multiverse because they already > exist in the multiverse. In fact, trying to make all these pocket dimensions > you end up with more work than one simple redefinition. This is simply not true. By taking certain elements and simply sticking them into the multiverse, you are changing their story and feel. For example, the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set says specifically that the spaceship originated from a universe like our own, with open space, solar systems, galaxies and such. I had a view of Mystara's history and flavor very much in mind when I worked up the dimension idea. To just stick a bunch of it in a crystal spheres detracts from that. > > 2) It does the above without making a single change to the multiverse > > itself. > > > BZZZT!!! Wrong answer. Certainly, the multiverse of PS is unaffected. > But the problem is that the PS multiverse is the same as The Multiverse. Your > solution makes a pretty major change to The Multiverse. With essentially > infinite numbers of sets of planes of infinite size, your metaphysics are even > messier than cold fusion. > What your solution has done is to make multiple copies of an already > infinite multiverse. As I said, this is an interesting idea. What you have > to do make this idea work, is a lot of work on these other dimensions. What > makes these other dimensions so special that they have to whole other > dimensions? Why can't they be other crystal spheres and realms on the Outer > Planes as they already are documented? What makes another crystal sphere so special that it has to be a whole other crystal sphere? And when did I ever say "copy". I think part of the problem here is you think I created this whole dimension thing so that PC's could go galavanting around in other dimensions. This was not my goal. It is simply background. > Does another dimension reverse the alignments of all existing people, > such that Iuz is a Lawful Good demi-god trying to free Greyhawk from the > centuries of tyrannical mortal rulers; and Ivid is a benevolent ruler who's > gone criminally insane from dealing with LG demons? If you actually want this > to exist, fine. But if you hate the idea of such alternate worlds then your > excuse for dimensions just got trashed. Because if your excuse for dimensions > is just that, say, rabbits are the dominant life form rather than humans, just > create a crystal sphere where this is so. You seem to have taken the whole concept farther than I, then turned around and criticized it all as if I said it. I made no claim about what the other dimensions are like, and I certainly never claimed they were somehow mirrors, twisted or otherwise. Excuse? Rabbits? Perhaps I should go back and read my posts. I think something subliminal has been slipping in. =) > Nope, dimensions are too much work for the simple taks of saying, "I > want characters from Mystara to be able to interact with characters from > Sigil in a coherent fashion". That is not what I said. Just to set the record straight, here is my "mission statement" for all of this... "My goal is to come up with a way of keeping the full flavor and feel of the world of Mystara, as I perceive it, while fully integrating it into the Spelljammer and Planescape model of reality." The dimension concept took me about two minutes of though and five minutes of typing to get it to a level I am satisfied with. Hardly classified as work. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Cthulhu, eh? I'll try and backstab him" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Electric Monk Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 14:50:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and the SJ/PS paradigm On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > As for parallel primes, where does Planescape discuss them? I admit > I may have missed something, and would like to go back and check. As for explicitly mentioning them it does not. This is one thing that I had been discussing with Wolfgang Baur when he was working on the project. The "official" stance is that the Prime is where all the non-planescape worlds exist. Not all of them exist on the same plane though.. You can think of the Prime as a collection of planes, as is the deal with the inner planes and the Outer Planes. The primary one is the triune plane of Oerth, Toril, and Krynn. Hence the description in the Players guide ot the Planes.. "the nice man who had subsequently acted so oddly to being shot at." --==<>==-- http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd/ ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:58:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mystara] Wrath of the Immortals On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Electric Monk wrote: > Well, I personally think that WOTI was a major mistake, > and will not use it.. It is IMHO silly beyond recompense. > I use Box Set 5 for dealing with Immortals.. IMHO > it is the best thing TSR ever did.. I have to agree abou the rules for handling Immortals; I was not impressed. Nor did I particularly like the whole Immortals Fury adventure, and the rearrangment of the world it brought about. On the other hand, I like the information it gave on the Immortals of Mystara. It's nice to have all of it in one place, instead of having to pour through all the Gazetteers or old modules looking for details. I also like the artifact rules. Superior to AD&D's, in ways. > Sure they say it should replace the old system but the old one > was better on many levels.. so what it was a bit complex.. > Things maid sense and Immortals were cool.. now they are > just very powerful magic-user/druid/cleric/fighter/thiefs > which is a waste of good paper.. Overall, though, this doesn't really bug me. I will probably never have a PC reach Immortality in my campaigns, and I don;t need rules for handling NPC Immortals or gods. If such things became important, I would probably use WotC's The Primal Order. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: Electric Monk Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 15:06:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and the SJ/PS paradigm On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > Sorry, wasn't allowed to read that (my DS DM's choice). Ahh what do DM's know (note I've been a Dm for 10 years) > > magaling of the 5th.. the Nightmare Dimension which has since become a > > demiplane.. arrgghh > > I'd give Nightmare a special clissification kind of a binary plane (like binary stars) to Mystara, each is the product of the others dreams, fears, etc. Yeah its just a matter of prespective.. The Diaboli probably have the same problem.. > The only problem is the entire series of events in >WotI is based on the concept of Immortals needing followers. >Rad knows he'd lose a direct fight with Ixion (being >generous Rad might live long enough to attempt a counterattack) > so he fights the only way he can, using followers. As I said, its misguided. > Three? I can only think of 2. Ixion and Thanatos. Who's the third? Odin "Ixion is one of the oldest Immortals, and , like Odin and Thanatos does not even remeber having had a mortal existance" (pg 23) "Odin is one of the great old immortals; he does not remeber existing as a mortal."(pg 29) that should do it... > > to join them.. This has happened only 2 time.. Rad is the only one who > > currently has a good chance of doing it again.. hint hint hint... > > Rad has no chance of doing it again. He > was taken by the Old One at the end of WotI to be punished, not >rewarded. (qv Mark of Amber) > > Yeh of little faith.. at the end of the Mark of Amber he can be mortal again... if he becomes immortal a second time watch out.. No one else is even close.. "the nice man who had subsequently acted so oddly to being shot at." --==<>==-- http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd/ ------------------------------ From: Electric Monk Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 15:14:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals without Life Stories On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > Korotiku the Spider (Thought) > > I'll have to look on this, wasn't he originally a Nithian? He's connected with the Pearl Islanders and can't remeber his past.. Chances are though that he was mortal. > > Hel (Entropy) Yeah I forgot her.. > > Nyx/Death (Entropy) > > One of these two was a Vampire creature from another dimension (Nyx I believe) and I can't remember the other one. > Correct... > > ???? (one for Time) > > Rather appropriately all the Time Immortals remember >their Immortal existence. Your probably think of Koronus > who has forgotten some of the details about becoming Immortal, >most notably his sponsor. It is possible that he actually sponsored >himself to Immortality. > That's what I heard.. > _________________ > > |] |] > |]ruce | ierpont > "the nice man who had subsequently acted so oddly to being shot at." --==<>==-- http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd/ ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 16:00:39 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: [SPELLJAMMER:736] Mystara and PS/SPJ Perhaps the concept of alternate primes mould work better. Not alternate Prime Materials, alternate primes. So the layout of the planes would look something like: Inner Planes Prime Material Outer Planes |------------------------|-----------------------|----------------------------| | Blackmoor's Inner | the Blackmoor prime | Blackmoor's outer planes | | PLanes, possibly shared| | possibly shared again | |------------------------|-----------------------|----------------------------| | Mystara's Inner Planes,| Mystara/Nightmare | Mystara's Outer Planes | | possibly the same as | as described in Set 5 | Including the planes of | | the other world's inner| No crystal sphere's | the various Immortals | | planes. | exist here | | |------------------------|-----------------------|----------------------------| | The AD&D "Big Three"'s | THe "Big Three": | The standard Planescape, | | Inner planes, possibly | Toril, Oerth, Krynn | MotP Outer Planes | | shared with other | in their crystal | | | primes | spheres. | | |------------------------|-----------------------|----------------------------| | Athas' Inner Planes | Athas | Athas' Outer planes | | Possibly shared with | | Possibly the same as the | | "Big three" | | "Big three"'s | |------------------------|-----------------------|----------------------------| | Any other set of Inner | Some other world | Possibly another set of | | Planes, possibly shared| (Alphatia, Avergnion | Outer Planes | |------------------------|-----------------------|----------------------------| ^ ^ | | the Ethereal the Astral Possibly there is more than one Ethereal or Astral, but from what I hear of Planescape it suggest one ethereal and one astral connecting the "Prime Material" to the "Outer Planes" and "Inner Planes", which may be composed of different areas depending on which set you visit. So Odin only exists once as a God, and maybe once as an Immortal because his Outer plane is connected to all primes that worship him. I could write more if I gave it more thought, but I'd like to check for contradictions from published sources first. ___________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 16:04:36 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules > From owner-mystara-l@io.com Fri Oct 13 15:51:30 1995 > Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:57:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: Leroy Van Camp III > X-Sender: van891@buzzard.csrv.uidaho.edu > To: mystara-l@io.com > Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII> > Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com > Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > X-Mdf: Mail for pierpont sent to pierpont@shelley.mitre.org > Content-Length: 2366 > > > > On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > > Leroy Van Camp wrote: > > > > > For example, take the path of the Paragon. Excepting the apprentices > > > they must teach, and the wizards they must defeat, it is possible for this > > > path to have no effect on virtually anyone's life. Followers are > > > unlikely to be gained from this. > > > > IIRC Paragon says they must be _recognized_ as the most powerful wizard > > within X miles where X is some obscene number. That means some outsider > > who walks into that little village and asks who is the most powerful > > wizard in the land better hear your name and your name only. > > Looks like it's my turn to correct you. =) > You are confusing two seperate things... > > 1) The wizard must transform the land within one hundred miles of his > base of operations. > > 2) He must be acknowledged as the superior to the wizards he duels. > > None of these necessarily require recognition by a large quantity of > people, and certainly not by anyone who worships the person. > > > > Worship is > > a very heavy word, and if the paths are handled properly the deeds > > required should be on the scale of Hercules, Siegfried, Gilgamesh, etc. > > people who achieved God-like status through heroic acts. I think one of > > the thing Wrath was trying to do is give the Immortals more of a 'these > > poeple will live on in our hearts, minds, and legends forever' feel. > > I agree that most of the paths are set up so a character recieves > bulk recognition for his deeds, but this is not a factor of all of them. > But, I still think it was poorly executed, and the connection between > Immortals and their worshippers seems tenuous on many points. Although > you have brought up some good points, the rules seem to make no > connection between followers and achieving Immortality, and the idea that > they need worshippers to remain active seems an afterthought. > > > Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. > I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. > The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Tiamat, _Darkglory_ > > I'll have to agree with you there. While most of the paths would give you a lot of recognition, and possibly make you a legendary figure, they all don't have to. Transforming the land for 100 miles makes you recognized, but that doesn't qualify you for God-like status, especially if some people don't like the changes. I suppose the link between Immortals and their followers will just have to be one of those mysteries only truly understood by the Old Ones. (As it says in WotI). _______________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 16:10:15 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and the SJ/PS paradigm > From owner-mystara-l@io.com Fri Oct 13 15:52:49 1995 > Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 15:06:40 -0400 (EDT) > From: Electric Monk > X-Sender: goehrigd@gort > To: mystara-l@io.com > Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and the SJ/PS paradigm > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII> > Content-Length: 1757 > Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com > Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > X-Mdf: Mail for pierpont sent to pierpont@shelley.mitre.org > > On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > > Sorry, wasn't allowed to read that (my DS DM's choice). > > Ahh what do DM's know (note I've been a Dm for 10 years) > > > > magaling of the 5th.. the Nightmare Dimension which has since become a > > > demiplane.. arrgghh > > > > I'd give Nightmare a special clissification kind of a binary plane (like binary stars) to Mystara, each is the product of the others dreams, fears, etc. > > Yeah its just a matter of prespective.. The Diaboli probably > have the same problem.. > Under the Diaboli discription in the AD&D2 MC appendix (and in the Glantri BS) it says that they do have the same problem. Just as a Diaboli is the kind of creature feared by Mystarans and seen in they're nightmares so too are humans to Diaboli. > > The only problem is the entire series of events in > >WotI is based on the concept of Immortals needing followers. > >Rad knows he'd lose a direct fight with Ixion (being > >generous Rad might live long enough to attempt a counterattack) > > so he fights the only way he can, using followers. > > As I said, its misguided. > > > Three? I can only think of 2. Ixion and Thanatos. Who's the third? > > Odin > > "Ixion is one of the oldest Immortals, and , like Odin and Thanatos > does not even remeber having had a mortal existance" (pg 23) > > "Odin is one of the great old immortals; he does not remeber existing as > a mortal."(pg 29) > > that should do it... > > > > to join them.. This has happened only 2 time.. Rad is the only one who > > > currently has a good chance of doing it again.. hint hint hint... > > > > Rad has no chance of doing it again. He > > was taken by the Old One at the end of WotI to be punished, not > >rewarded. (qv Mark of Amber) > > > > Yeh of little faith.. at the end of the Mark of Amber he can be mortal > again... if he becomes immortal a second time watch out.. > No one else is even close.. > Only thing is, if he becomes mortal again, he wasn't 36th level the first time. Also I think you have to willingly sacrifice your Immortality and return to mortal life (that's the way I understood it anyway). Also I don't think the Old Ones would want him in their ranks, especially after punishing him for being such an unfeeling munchkin to begin with. BTW, 2 mortals have joined the ranks of the Old Ones? Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson perchance? _________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 13:09:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Immortals and Followers Hey All, Was thinking on the Immortals and followers connection again. Someone earlier posted that Mystara encompasses dimensions 1, 2, and 3. Nightmare is dimensions 3, 4, and 5. And the Immortals exist over dimensions 1, 2, 3, and 4. If Nightmare is created by Mystarans beliefs, fears, dreams, etc. (which it is according to published stuff) and Nightmare is dimensions 3, 4, and 5 then Mystarans minds must create dimensions 4 and 5 (and possibly 3 as well). So if Immortals exist in dimension 4 (possibly it is this added dimension that gives them their powers) and Mystarans minds create dimension 4 then Mystarans minds are partially responsible for the existense of Immortals. Hence the link between followers and Immortals. This would explain why the link doesn't exist until after the Immortal is immortal, since they don't need to deal with dimension 4 until after they complete the path. The fact that Mystarans may also create dimension 3 not only adds to this idea, but helps to explain why priestly magic is possible, faith that they can affect the world (which under this system would be true) allows the desired effect to actually happen. For high level spells more than mere Mortal faith is necessary, hence the need for an Immortal, and the reason spells of levels 3 and lower can be cast without an Immortal present to grant them. (qv Nightwail, NightRage, Nightstorm). As I see it existing in a particular dimension gives a particular quality to your existence: D1 = Physical prescence in Mystara's plane of existence Includes mortals and Immortal Manifestation forms D2 = Partially (or wholly) created by faith from Nightmare beings This means both Mystara and Immortals are dependant upon Nightmare's existence D3 = I haven't totally figured this out, but everything has some connection to it, possibly faith in ones own existence, or just having this dimension causes you to exist. D4 = Partially (or wholly) created by faith from Mystaran beings This means both Nightmare and Immortals are dependant upon Mystara's existence D5 = Physical prescence in Nightmare plane of existence Includes Nightmare beings (possibly with Nightmare Immortals?) Tell me what you think. ____________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: AEVF56A@prodigy.com (MR SHELBY J MICHLIN) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 15:47:10 EDT Subject: [Mystara] My Mystara Space Info, Judges Guild, and My Campaign's Ancient History Hello Everyone! > Date: Thursday, 12-Oct-95 10:59 AM > > From: Sir George Anonymo \ Internet: (lcdavis@mailbox.syr.edu) > To: Shelby Michlin \ PRODIGY: (AEVF56A) > > > > From: AEVF56A@prodigy.com (MR SHELBY J MICHLIN) > > Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 20:52:34 EDT > > > > I based my > > campaign in the Judges Guild City State world. Arneson published First > > Fantasy Campaign as a Judges Guild product, detailing his Blackmoor > > campaign and placing it adjacent to the Judges Guild world maps, so I > > incorporated it. > > Now you've piqued my curiosity. Were these originally designed to go > together? According to the documentation in the product, Arneson is grateful for JG allowing him the opportunity to publish his original campaign. JG is placing it in/on their independently-created world. The campaigns were not originally designed to go together. > > This includes Spelljammer information for both time > > periods, and much thought on time travel (and what the hell, I'll tell > > you) the old C&S supplement "Saurians" also figures prominently in the > > history. I've had parties in both time periods, although Spelljamming > > only in the Modern World's crystal sphere, which I've titled Oops, what a typo!!! That should be spelljamming in the Ancient World's crystal sphere! Sorry... > > "Titansphere." I'd be happy to go into detail if there is any interest. > > Tell me more. > > >>> Sir George Anonymous <<< I hope no one objects, but I am mailing some files to this list from my other email account; Prodigy doesn't allow attachments. One is a bitmap of my crystal sphere. The other is some incomplete documentation on its layout, and it refers to the two time periods in my campaign. If it is a faux pas to post these attachments, I'd appreciate a gentle correction. (BTW, I have some .fcd files I created with Campaign Cartographer which I'd be willing to post. They include various maps of Glantri based on the Gazeteer, and one of the original Province of Averoigne based on the original Castle Amber module. Just let me know.) Anyway, the spelljammer info needs a bit of explanation. It refers to many spelljammer supplements and races, and that may be a bit confusing if you're not familiar with them. I apologize in advance. Also, its references to my campaign's labels require the following translations: Danu=pc's culture's name for their world ("Mystara" to you) (because of references in CSIO to Mabon, Modron, etc I decided the culture named the sun Mabon, and their planet Danu) Ryan=pc's culture's name for the City State of the Invincible Overlord, home of the campaign in the Ancient World/pre-Blackmoor Explosion (CSIO was referred to as "Ryan" in a bit of fiction from one of the old JG magazines) Sky King, Vanis, Howla=names of the three moons of the JG world, again from the fiction series in the old JG magazines; after the Blackmoor Explosion, one moon is destroyed, one is cloaked (Miyoshima or whatever it's called, don't feel like looking it up) So, we have the Ancient World of my campaign. (This is a small, incredibly-dense planet.) This is the JG City-State setting, and includes Arneson's Blackmoor campaign, including the four Blackmoor modules (a little later than the main campaign time). It coincides with the Goblin/Elf wars of Spelljammer history. This is the time period in which the files I've attached are set. Then we have the Blackmoor Explosion, blowing away a moon, and creating the Hollow World. The Ancient Peoples' cultures are preserved inside. This is the Gazeteer Era, and the current Spelljammer history. The Inn in the first Blackmoor module helped get me thinking along the lines of time travel, along with the later influence of The House Between the Worlds by Marion Zimmer Bradley, A Midsummer Night's Tempest By Poul Anderson, and a book called Timeliner (I've forgotten the author). The Spelljammer history made me want access to campaigning in the "old" war and the new, more advanced period. As for the Blackmoor spaceship, I envisioned that the planet ("Mystara") has a physical existence in "our"/a "real" space universe, but the Crystal Sphere marks a barrier; it is non-tangible to outside spacecraft, but as they enter they find themselves in the wildspace of the crystal sphere; they cannot escape. The "flow" of Spelljammer fills the void between the stars in the fantasy version of space, and is only accessible when leaving a sphere. So, if you start out in a spaceship, inadvertantly enter a crystal sphere (how rarely encountered in real space?), you have passed into fantasy space (for want of a better term) . Now you're in a crystal sphere's wildspace, and if you leave the vicinity you enter the flow instead of the interstellar void of real space. Voila! Starship trapped in fantasy campaign! In my world history, there were other stranded space travellers, but they had less "impact" on the world! HAHAHAHAHA! (Sorry, couldn't resist!) As for the "Saurians" C&S supplement, that has to do with the ancient history of my world. It basically takes the premise that the Saurians came from another world, invaded and conquered the Bronze-Age peoples, and were referred to as the Dragon-Kings or Dragon Lords. The Saurians had a strong religion. They discovered my campaign world, believed it to be a cosmic egg of a diety, and felt that the humans etc. living on it were sacriligious. Further the Saurians were responsible for nurturing the egg. So they led a Crusade to take control of the Egg. Much later, they came to believe that they had made a mistake; this wasn't the Egg after all! They set up a human dynasty of Dragon-Kings to rule in their stead, and left! These empires, the Saurian and human Dragon-Kings, left ruins and artifacts all over. The lizard men of standard D&D (my Ancient World campaign period) are the degenerating remnants of those Saurians left behind for whatever reasons, religious fanatics or heretics, political outcasts, pioneers and empire-builders, etc. Before they degenerated to the point of the D&D monster, a lizard man civilization (referenced by the old JG product by Paul Jaquays, Caverns of Thracia) existed and thrived. These guys fell and left their culture to the Greek-type society I called Thracians. By the time of my Ancient World campaign, the City-State/JG timeframe, the Thracians themselves have long fallen. By the Gazeteer Era, lizard men are pathetic. Well, I hope I didn't bore anyone too much if this is considered a digression. If so, I apologize. If anyone would like to hear more, I don't require too much encouragement. And I'd be very interested in joining the Spelljammer mailing list, if someone would be kind enough to post/email the procedure! Shelby ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #8 *************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #9 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, 19 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 009 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 12:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mucho Replies to Digest #1 On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > Yep, I'm correcting you. Under the sections about Immortals gaining power > it specifically says that they need worshippers. Any Immortal who >loses all, > or almost all, of his/her worshippers goes into a dormant state (on another > plane I believe) and can be brought back by a religious revival. Also one > way for Immortals to hurt each other is to cause doubt and loss of faith > among the each others worshippers. Wait a second. Since when do Initiates and Temporals have worshippers to begin with? None of my past immortals(basically all retired once they got there) have ever had any worshippers. Some, like my last two paladins of Tarastia(sp?) had medium-level followers back in Milenia, but those followers were also basically worshippers of Tarastia and admirers of the two paladins who helped head the Milenian Church of Tarastia. So, they could hardly be considered worshippers. Does this mean none of my immortals can do anything now? You wrong. And you ugly too. -Grimlock, to Megatron ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 08:47:13 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mucho Replies to Digest #1 (fwd) > From starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu Mon Oct 16 08:30:36 1995 > Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 08:33:44 -0400 (EDT) > From: StarHawk > To: pierpont@mitre.org > Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mucho Replies to Digest #1 (fwd) > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII> > X-Mdf: Mail for pierpont sent to pierpont@shelley.mitre.org > Content-Length: 1269 > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 12:24:16 -0400 (EDT) > From: Mischa E Gelman > To: mystara-l@io.com > Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mucho Replies to Digest #1 > > On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > > Yep, I'm correcting you. Under the sections about Immortals gaining power > > it specifically says that they need worshippers. Any Immortal who > >loses all, > > or almost all, of his/her worshippers goes into a dormant state (on another > > plane I believe) and can be brought back by a religious revival. Also one > > way for Immortals to hurt each other is to cause doubt and loss of faith > > among the each others worshippers. > > Wait a second. Since when do Initiates and Temporals have worshippers to > begin with? None of my past immortals(basically all retired once they > got there) have ever had any worshippers. Some, like my last two > paladins of Tarastia(sp?) had medium-level followers back in Milenia, but > those followers were also basically worshippers of Tarastia and admirers > of the two paladins who helped head the Milenian Church of Tarastia. So, > they could hardly be considered worshippers. Does this mean none of my > immortals can do anything now? > Apparantly since WotI. Because under the heading Fading (I forget which chapter) it says that one year after an Immortal loses its last worshipper, through death or loss of faith, the Immortal begins to fade. The fading process take ten years, after which time the Immortal is dormant and can be brought back reviving faith in the Immortal. I guess this would mean that as an Initiate you have 11 years to get worshippers, either that or some of the faith in your patron, Tarastia in this case, is given to you for the great deeds you did in Tarastia's name. Kind of like Tarastia is cool so we worship her, this paladin did really cool things to spread the worship of Tarastia so we praise him for it, kind of like a saint I guess. This is just a guess, WotI never gets into much detail about the link between Immortals and followers. _____________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 13:17:47 -0400 Subject: [Mystara] Mystara and Spheres Sorry for late responses, but I was away for the weekend. I think that alot of the problems with Mystara and the spheres could be solved by modifiy why we are trying to integrate the material. > > 1) A technological space ship punched it's way through from another > dimension and crashed landed on Mystara, leading to significant changes in > the world. With the new Chronomancer hand book, this can be an easy one to modify to fit into the world. A ship from a far distant future(could even be from another sphere). The world would have to be a techno world, thus saying its in the future. The portal (black hole) they went through was just some void(wild space) phenonima(sp) or a magical gate created by their engine? > 2) After the war with the Fire Wizards, the Alphatian Air Wizards left > their destroyed homeworld and traveled through into another dimension, > ending up on Mystara. Again this is how they interet it. They may just say they came from another diemension to fool every one else. The original founding fathers knew the truth that they were from the same solar system, but wanted to put all their past behind and control the future, thus they changed where they came from. Now all Alphatians think that they originally came from another Dimension. A second option for this is that they came from another sphere through a gate. (Or again as the truth be known by the founding fathers - they came here by spelljamming ships through the standard means) A third option is that the alphatians were from another crystal sphere and when they destroyed their world it created a giant magical gate in which the whole world was sucked through to the mystara sphere. The world was crushed in passing through the gate and thus the alphatians left for the next closest world. Now being that they only had air ships to fly to the new world it took a very long time, because they did not have the spelljammer technology. Only recently have the arcane begun to sell their wares in mystara space. > 3) The D'Ambrevilles and McGregors fled from persucation on an alternate > Earth, into another dimension. This again can easily be solved by another crystal sphere. They jumped through a magical gate. > > Immortals vs. Gods > One of the major differences between Mystara and AD&D settings are the > Immortals. Athough similar in power levels, Immortals are not gods. With > a few exceptions, they are individuals who rose to Immortality because of > their deeds and determination. Well this gets alittle tricky. You could just say that immortals are gods (why not). You say that a person can rise to become an immortal. Well look at the Forgotten Realms setting where Mystera(sp) became a god by her deeds? And Cyric became an god. Could not behind the scenes another god was secretly sponsering them? Just Some thoughts on a monday morning... Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 14:22:51 -0400 Subject: [Mystara] Gods and Immortals Hey listers, I found this in an archive of mine. It is from sea wasp and maybe we could apply it to the mystara gods/immortals. Just some more thoughts. Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From seawasp@wizvax.wizvax.net (Sea Wasp) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: Mortals and Gods Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 12:57:44 GMT In article , akilesh deperalta wrote: >Here's a little question that will hopefully spark some enlightening >discussion: > >In the known AD&D worlds, and perhaps your own, what differentiates >mortals from gods? What power makes The Simbul a mortal and Mystra a >goddess. Without a doubt, the Simbul is the most powerful realistic >wizardess on in the multiverse. So it must be something else...... Well, in the standard AD&D2, they have the rules for the Powers which make it pretty clear. For my part, I use a large number of things, though the best PUBLISHED mechanic for accomplishing this feat is The Primal Order, by Wizards of the Coast. If you can get hold of one of the original- printing versions of TPO, it includes AD&D in its conversion notes section. (T$R requested that the conversion notes be removed from the later printings. Makes perfect sense, of course -- gods know that no company would want free publicity.) In TPO, what differentiates the deific from the mortal is that a God has access to Primal Energy, a power superior to all other forms of energy. Primal has the important characteristic of being able to CHOOSE what it actually engages with and what it doesn't. So a god can fire a blast of Primal energy at Goodgulf the Super-Mage and the Primal Blast will go right past, without even TOUCHING, GoodGulf's Mega-Wall Of Force, Prismatic Sphere, Antimagic shell, and +200/+200 armor, to expend its actual force only on the unfortunate magician's body. This leaves a VERY well protected pile of mage-ashes. Primal Energy can also be used to do a large number of other neat Godly tricks, including empowering other emissaries, changing mortal forms to nonmortal forms, bestowing omniscience/omnipresence on the God, and so on. There are limits to Primal-based gods, of course, chief among these being that as a god you almost never have enough Primal to do everything you want to do. Gods get their Primal from a number of sources, most notably from dominating planes of existence and from having large numbers of worshippers; the more worshippers they have the more Primal Power they get from said worshippers. These characteristics of Primal explain why most gods are trying to get more worshippers and why they care about who controls various planes of existence. Primal Order deities are excellent representations of the more classic mythological deities like the Greek and Norse pantheons; vastly more powerful than mortal beings, with special powers that ordinary people cannot gain, but nonetheless with limits and able to be tricked or even defeated by extremely clever and powerful mortals if the god is too confident and the mortals very careful. In my own campaign, I have about 5 classifications of "gods" with a large number of power sources for said beings. Primal-based gods are fairly common but are nowhere near the strongest gods around; the strongest ones (aside from Me, the GM, who can kick all their butts) control a multiversal source of power which is only able to be contested by other similar sources of power. The 5 classifications of gods that I use are: 1) Primordials. These beings Are, Were, and Always Shall Be. They date from before the actual Creation of the multiverse. There are three such known for certain, and a couple of other possibles. Such beings may or may not gain power from worship, but they have their own power deriving from the very source of Creation. 2) Worship-Powered. These beings gain strength from being worshipped. This classification includes two subheads: 2a) Worship-created. These gods came into existence because enough people believed they existed. A primary example of this in my campaign world are the New Gods -- a party of adventurers who ascended in the end to the Godhead because many people came to believe them to be either gods or destined to become gods. Another example is a god who was created by the actions of another PC -- he pretended to be a god and succeeded in convincing the population of a country that he WAS one. However, the person he really was had little to do with the GOD that he had convinced people existed, so their belief created the deity out of nothing but pure Primal worship energy. 2b) Worship-energized. These are beings who have an independent deific existence, or at least independent very powerful abilities, but who can derive a great deal of benefit from being worshipped. The primary pantheon of this type in my fantasy world is the Egyptian pantheon, who are an alien race of beings called the Lorelei who gain great Primal abilities from being worshipped. They thus play gods on LOTS of worlds. 3) Created Gods. These beings were made by some force, being, or forces to serve a specific purpose or fill a specific niche. They tend to have great power in their specific area of expertise, but also tend to be very limited in any other areas, and even to have definite external limits on what they can and cannot do. There are many examples of these sorts of beings in my world, the most prominent being Lurlonicon, the God of Magic, who was created by the Four Stones of Magic specifically to be their wielder and controller, and also to be limited in the means and ways that those Stones could be used. 4) Essential Gods. Such beings as these have their own power and don't really gain much, if anything, from direct worship. They simply ARE what they are and nothing changes them much. There are many beings of this sort, with the Great Dragon Gods being the best-known. 5) The Self-Ascended. These gods MADE THEMSELVES. They were mortal beings who found the secrets to powers that made them gods. There are only two such known for certain to exist, though there may be others. At least one and perhaps both of these are powerful enough to contest directly even with the Primordials. Sea Wasp /^\ ;;; ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 12:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and Planescape > On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > Well, I personally think that WOTI was a major mistake, > and will not use it.. It is IMHO silly beyond recompense. > I use Box Set 5 for dealing with Immortals.. IMHO > it is the best thing TSR ever did.. Huh? It completely upset every other rule ever written for D&D. Usually, I have just retired my characters upon immortality instead of having ot rewrite them by those rules. I don't think it is possible to create immortal-style powers, as in rule book 5, without reworking the whole system(haven't seen WOTI, so can't compare). I think it is a goodidea just to let the character retire upon achievement of immortality. "I'm throwing just as hard," an aging Lefty Gomez once said, "but the ball isn't getting up there as fast" ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 13:42:16 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and Planescape > From owner-mystara-l@io.com Wed Oct 18 13:40:05 1995 > Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 12:43:25 -0400 (EDT) > From: Mischa E Gelman > Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and Planescape > To: mystara-l@io.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII> > Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com > Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > X-Mdf: Mail for pierpont sent to pierpont@shelley.mitre.org > Content-Length: 801 > > > On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > Well, I personally think that WOTI was a major mistake, > > and will not use it.. It is IMHO silly beyond recompense. > > I use Box Set 5 for dealing with Immortals.. IMHO > > it is the best thing TSR ever did.. > Huh? It completely upset every other rule ever written for D&D. > Usually, I have just retired my characters upon immortality instead of > having ot rewrite them by those rules. I don't think it is possible to > create immortal-style powers, as in rule book 5, without reworking the > whole system(haven't seen WOTI, so can't compare). I think it is a > goodidea just to let the character retire upon achievement of immortality. > Just for the record. I didn't write that. ___________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 11:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules > I'll have to agree with you there. While most of the paths would give you a > lot of recognition, and possibly make you a legendary figure, they all don't > have to. Transforming the land for 100 miles makes you recognized, but >that doesn't qualify you for Gd-like status, especially if some people >don't like the changes. Also, the Matter path does not make you well-known at all. Reaching 12th level in 3 classes and the last 6 of those in the wilderness does not make you famous. PS How do you handle mystics and so forth who want to follow that path?(what 3 classes do they do?) PS2 I keep the original PC stats for each incarnation. In the Hollow World, this would be impossible for most people to be clerics/mages. Any ideas? "I'm throwing just as hard," an aging Lefty Gomez said, "but the ball isn't getting up there as fast" ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 11:20:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules > On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > > Leroy Van Camp wrote: > > > > > For example, take the path of the Paragon. Excepting the apprentices > > > they must teach, and the wizards they must defeat, it is possible for this > > > path to have no effect on virtually anyone's life. Followers are > > > unlikely to be gained from this. > > > > IIRC Paragon says they must be _recognized_ as the most powerful wizard > > within X miles where X is some obscene number. That means some outsider > > who walks into that little village and asks who is the most powerful > > wizard in the land better hear your name and your name only. > > 1) The wizard must transform the land within one hundred miles of his > base of operations. This was really cool for the one quest I have Dm'ed. The mage decided to make his land a land of fire creatures, breaking the balance of the whole elements. An immortal of Time(Matter would have been more appropriate, but hindsight is 20/40) came down and questioned his actions. He claimed, in his defence, that he had created a land of fire and anyone who wanted to live there could come and live. Of course, creatures of every sphere poured in at this nice invitation and wrecked the tower, the land and all else in sight. These noble creatures were unwilling to leave this land, because they had not been invited to any nearby lands with as much hospitality. Luckily, the mage had kicked out all the previous inhabitants 1st(He was bascially self-centered ultra-mean) and he did get the unique landscape(a totally wrecked land filled with creatures from all over(but most left after the destruction). On the same quest, when he transformign the land to volcano-type(2 years or so), the mage was attacked by a clockwork dragon(construct). Not noticing that it was not a real dragon, he was pretty shocked the SECOND time I mentioned 40 arrows came from it's mouth and bounced off his immunity spell. Was a great fight for a while before he finally figured out to focus on destroying the construct, instead of fending for his life. "I'm throwing just as hard," aging Lefty Gomez once said, "but the ball isn't getting up there as fast" ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 11:41:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Immortal Questions Well, with all this argument over whether immortals are gds, I will throw in my 1 cent. My logic is that there is one gd running the whole show, whom few realize is there(even old Ones) 2nd are the old ones. they have been granted immortality because they have shown they are capable rulers. they run the laws of the universe(though gd could alter them anytime) and interfere in Immortal schemes indirectly(of course). 3rd are immortals, with their power structure. Each is responsible for one planet and some portion of the Prime Plane(the second is by choice except for eteranls and hierachs) 4th are humanoids/dragons/etc, capable of rising to immortality but usually just living our their life. 5th are animals and other mobile life which the humans may prey on, by choice of the higher ranks. Their goals are for this life only 6th are other life(plants and stuff) and their job is to exist so all the others may benefit from them. "I'm throwing just as hard," an aging Lefty Gomez said, "but the ball isn't getting up there as fast" ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 12:14:10 -0400 Subject: [Mystara] Glantri/Darokin Cave Ok Listers, Where is the cave/passage descibed between Glantri and Darokin that crosses the Broken Lands(Orcs of Thar). Is this in fact a cave or is it a mountain passage. I seem to recall somewhere that it was stated as a cave. Thanks Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 12:44:08 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules > > I'll have to agree with you there. While most of the paths would give you a > > lot of recognition, and possibly make you a legendary figure, they all don't > > have to. Transforming the land for 100 miles makes you recognized, but > >that doesn't qualify you for Gd-like status, especially if some people > >don't like the changes. > > Also, the Matter path does not make you well-known at all. Reaching 12th > level in 3 classes and the last 6 of those in the wilderness does not > make you famous. It seems the paths changed slightly between Set 5 and WotI. I believe the Path of the Polymath (Matter) involves recovering the same artifact 4 times. Three as different classes (or races) and once as a multi-classed everything you were before. > PS How do you handle mystics and so forth who want to follow that > path?(what 3 classes do they do?) I don't know about Set 5, but in WotI the classes are determined randomly, but you never repeat a class. > PS2 I keep the original PC stats for each incarnation. In the Hollow > World, this would be impossible for most people to be clerics/mages. Any > ideas? Perhaps let them keep the same die rolls, but rearrange their stats to suit the new form. Also I don't think questing for Immortality applies as easily to Hollow World characters, such an epic quest could concieveably violate the Spell of Preservation, making at least an added challenge. ___________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 13:06:04 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Glantri/Darokin Cave > From owner-mystara-l@io.com Thu Oct 19 12:55:06 1995 > Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 12:14:10 -0400 > From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) > To: mystara-l@io.com > Subject: [Mystara] Glantri/Darokin Cave > X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII > Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com > Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > X-Mdf: Mail for pierpont sent to pierpont@shelley.mitre.org > Content-Length: 273 > > Ok Listers, > > > Where is the cave/passage descibed between Glantri and Darokin that > crosses the Broken Lands(Orcs of Thar). > > Is this in fact a cave or is it a mountain passage. I seem to recall > somewhere that it was stated as a cave. > > > > Thanks > Scooby > gemjmd@kodak.com > Don't remember hearing about a cave passage. Perhaps your crossing several references? I do remember Oenkmar having a vast cave system that stretches through out the Broken Lands, and possibly into Glantri and Darokin. Perhaps this is what your refering to? _____________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 13:26:59 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Glantri/Darokin Cave > > > > Where is the cave/passage descibed between Glantri and Darokin that > > crosses the Broken Lands(Orcs of Thar). > > > > Is this in fact a cave or is it a mountain passage. I seem to recall > > somewhere that it was stated as a cave. > > > > Don't remember hearing about a cave passage. Perhaps your crossing >several references? I do remember Oenkmar having a vast cave system >that stretches through out the Broken Lands, and possibly into Glantri >and Darokin. Perhaps this is what your refering to? If you look on the map of "Orcs of Thar" there is a dotted line going from Couragin(sp) in Darokin to a city on the border of Glantri. It is labeled (I believe) "Secret Passage". I thought I had once seen a paragraph on it that it was a cave or tunnel. I think there is also a mention of it in Glantri Gazzetter, but I can't find it. I was maybe hoping that the newer AD&D gazzetter might have reference to it, or if someone else would remember where it was referenced. Thanks Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 14:55:18 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Glantri/Darokin Cave > From owner-mystara-l@io.com Thu Oct 19 14:51:53 1995 > Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 13:26:59 -0400 > From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) > To: mystara-l@io.com > Subject: Re: [Mystara] Glantri/Darokin Cave > X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII > Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com > Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > X-Mdf: Mail for pierpont sent to pierpont@shelley.mitre.org > Content-Length: 1035 > > > > > > > Where is the cave/passage descibed between Glantri and Darokin that > > > crosses the Broken Lands(Orcs of Thar). > > > > > > Is this in fact a cave or is it a mountain passage. I seem to recall > > > somewhere that it was stated as a cave. > > > > > > > > Don't remember hearing about a cave passage. Perhaps your crossing > >several references? I do remember Oenkmar having a vast cave system > >that stretches through out the Broken Lands, and possibly into Glantri > >and Darokin. Perhaps this is what your refering to? > > > If you look on the map of "Orcs of Thar" there is a dotted line > going from Couragin(sp) in Darokin to a city on the border of Glantri. > It is labeled (I believe) "Secret Passage". I thought I had once > seen a paragraph on it that it was a cave or tunnel. I think there > is also a mention of it in Glantri Gazzetter, but I can't find it. > I was maybe hoping that the newer AD&D gazzetter might have reference > to it, or if someone else would remember where it was referenced. > Now that you mention it, I remember that being on the map as well. But I don't recall seeing anything else about it either. I don't have the Glantri Gazeteer, so I don't know if there's anything in there. ___________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #9 *************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #10 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Saturday, 21 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 010 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 20:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Glantri/Darokin Cave As far as I can remember there is no mention of such a passage in the Glantri gazetteer. In fact the only reference is the map from the Orcs of Thar. Which of course raises the question of whether it exists or the orcs just wish it did. Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 20:59:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules All this talk of the Old Ones - does anyone else get the feeling that they are in no way benevolent? This has always seemed to me a reference to the Elder Gods of the Weird Tales triumvirate. Also, although I've enjoyed the debates that have been raging between what is a god and what is an immortal, I think it should be stated that perhaps there was never really meant to be too much of a difference. T$R simply changed all references to gods to immortals (classic example: The Arm of God from the Companion Rules became the Arm of the Immortals). Finally, the original concept that Mystara was really our own world in the ancient past (the geographical similarities, the fact that the Alphatians are supposed to represent the Atlanteans in module CM1 Test of the Warlords, etc.) has always seemed like a neat idea. So, in my own campaign, the d'Ambervilles and MacGregors come from the distant future, etc.) My $0.03 Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 08:29:56 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Glantri/Darokin Cave > As far as I can remember there is no mention of such a passage in > the Glantri gazetteer. In fact the only reference is the map from the > Orcs of Thar. Which of course raises the question of whether it exists > or the orcs just wish it did. > > I was thinking that too, since it was never mentioned anywhere else. And that map has several amusing things on it. Such as "New Elven Homeland (Suggested)", "If you got this far you cheated", and of course "Copyright 1983, TSR Oink. All Orc Reserves." Anybody else get the feeling this Gaz was the inspiration for the WarHammer Orks? _____________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 08:32:06 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules > > All this talk of the Old Ones - does anyone else get the feeling > that they are in no way benevolent? This has always seemed to me a > reference to the Elder Gods of the Weird Tales triumvirate. > > Also, although I've enjoyed the debates that have been raging > between what is a god and what is an immortal, I think it should be > stated that perhaps there was never really meant to be too much of a > difference. T$R simply changed all references to gods to immortals > (classic example: The Arm of God from the Companion Rules became the Arm > of the Immortals). > > Finally, the original concept that Mystara was really our own > world in the ancient past (the geographical similarities, the fact that > the Alphatians are supposed to represent the Atlanteans in module CM1 > Test of the Warlords, etc.) has always seemed like a neat idea. So, in > my own campaign, the d'Ambervilles and MacGregors come from the distant > future, etc.) This would kind of explain the reason for some of the changes made between Set 5 and WotI. The addition of the need for worshippers and some of the other changes made them alot closer to regular Gods. _______________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:42:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules On Thu, 19 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > PS2 I keep the original PC stats for each incarnation. In the Hollow > > World, this would be impossible for most people to be clerics/mages. Any > > ideas? > > Perhaps let them keep the same die rolls, but rearrange their > stats to suit the new form. Also I don't think > questing for Immortality applies as easily to Hollow World characters, > such an epic quest could concieveably violate the Spell of Preservation, > making at least an added challenge. 1st, most of my PCs don't have 16s to put for INT or WIS unless I reduce the other stats to make up for it. Also, Hollow World immortality is not that hard. I have had 1 character die on the way to the mountain, 1 die in the quest(creating anew society of thieves of different nations is not upsetting the framework of the Hollow World) and I had 2 paladins complete the Energy quest(their patron was for NRG). Their quest then: 1)be acknowledged the best fighters in whatever radius - No one warrior in Milenia could really challenge them(except Tythus, whom they both beat) 2)transform the land(remade one of the minor cities(Phos) a center of Tarastian religion in Milenia - a bit upsetting of the HW framework, but basically just the elevation of an old cultural element. 3)Find 2 artifacts(1 each) - no difference than in outer world 4)Get 12(double PCs, double NPCs) to rise 12 levels. The paladins' daughter and 11 other youngish followers of Tarastia join the 2 paladins in their above-mentioned quests and also several side adventures focusing on the NPC(approx. 1 adventure per NPC). -took some time(3 game years at least, I think and was tough to get all that XP but no difference than Outer World Was there a fifth part to the quest? "I'm throwing just as hard," an aging Lefty Gomez said, "but the ball isn't getting up there as fast" ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:25:09 EDT Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priests I've been working on specialty priests for the Immortals. So far I've only got 5, but I'd like some input before I get too much further. I based all of them off the S&P point system so those who have it can comment on whether or not the points work out. If you don't have it don't worry, I just used the number of points to develop them, nothing in the descriptions is S&P specific. - --------------------------------------------------------- Al-Kalim (Initiate of Time) Alignment: LN Sex: Male Race: Human (Ylari) Clerical Alignment: Any Lawful or Neutral Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Charisma Intelligence 9 Weapons Allowed: Ankus, Bagh nakh, Battle Axe, Blowgun, Bow, Chain, Chakram, Crossbow, Dart, Flail, Jambiya, Katar, Hand Axe, Mace, Cutlass, Tulwar, Long Sword, Sabre, Scimitar, Short sword, Great Scimitar Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Minor) Charm (Major) Combat (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental (Minor) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Plant (Minor) Protection (Major) Time (Major) War (Major) Weather (Minor) Granted Powers: Create Food and Water once per day Bonus Nonweapon Proficiency of Bureaucracy Turn Undead Symbol: A palm in the desert with a rising moon behind. Interests: Ylaruam, making the Ylari desert lush, Scholarship, Courage, Warriors Worshiped in: Ylaruam, Saragon (Savage Coast) _______________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:26:48 EDT Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Alphaks Alphaks "The Roaring Fiend" (Empyreal of Entropy) Alignment: CE Race: Human (Alphatian) Sex: Male Clerics Alignment: Any Chaotic Followers Alignment: Any Chaotic Ability Requirements: Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: All bludgeoning plus Whip, Scourge, and Dagger Spells Granted: All (Major) Chaos (Major) Charm (Major) Combat (Major) Healing (Major) Necromancy (Major) Summoning (Major) War (Major) Granted Powers: Backstab as a Thief of equal level Cause Light Wounds once per day Detect Good once per round Cast a reversed Aid spell once per day Control Undead Symbol: A horned skull on a flaming background shaped like a pheonix Interests: Mass destruction, especially of Alphatia Worshipped in: Various areas _________________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:28:30 EDT Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Alphatia Alphatia (Celestial of Energy) Alignment: LG Race: Human (Alphatian) Sex: Female Clerics Alignment: Any Lawful or Neutral Followers Alignment: Any Ability Requirements: Intelligence 9 Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: Any bludgeoning Spells Granted: All (Major) Astral (Major) Charm (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Protection (Major) Wards (Major) Granted Powers: Cure Light Wounds once per day +2 to Saves vs. Spells Clerics of Alphatia may choose one school of Wizard spells to learn as though they were priest spells. Turn Undead Symbol: A glowing shield with paints on it as an artists palette Interests: Pacifism, Artistry, Alphatia, Magical Studies, Opposing Alphaks Worshipped in: Alphatia, Bellisaria, Isle of Dawn, Norworld _______________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:30:46 EDT Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Asterius Asterius (Eternal of Thought) Alignment: NG Race: Human (Blackmoor) Sex: Male Clerics Alignment: Any (if aspect of thieves, any non-Lawful) Followers Alignment: Any Ability Requirements: Wisdom 12 Dexterity 9 Weapons Allowed: Any weapon useable by Thieves Granted Spells: All (Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Numbers (Major) Protection (Major) Sun (Major) Thought (Major) Travellers (Major) Wards (Major) Granted Powers: Move Silently, this ability starts at an 8% chance modified for Dexterity and Race. It increases by 4% for every level after first. Hide in Shadows, this ability starts at an 8% chance modified for Dexterity and Race. It increases by 4% for every level after first. Clerics of Asterius may cast any spells learnable by members of the Merchant class as if they were normal priest spells. (q.v. Merchant Spells, Gaz 11 Republic of Darokin pp. 14-20) Bonus Proficiencies: Bargaining and Appraising Know Alignment once per day, in addition to the clerics normal spells. Clerics of Asterius have no power over Undead. Symbol: The Moon Interests: Trade, Merchants and Thieves Worshipped in: Any country containing Merchants or Thieves _________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:31:59 EDT Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Atruaghin Atruaghin (Hierarch of Matter) Alignment: LN Race: Human (Azcan / Atruaghin Clans) Sex: Male Clerics Alignment: 90% Lawful, 10% Neutral Followers Alignment: Lawful of Neutral Ability Requirements: Wisdom 12 Weapons Allowed: Any weapon appropriate to an Amerindian Culture Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Plant (Major) Protection (Major) Weather (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Atruaghin may never be decieved by lies. Clerics of Atruaghin may Turn Undead Symbol: Himself (Chieftain of the Clans) Interests: the Atruaghin Clans, "New Way" Azcans, Opposing Atzanteotl Worshipped in: Atruaghin Plateau, Azca _______________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Sun Oct 22 01:35:14 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 14:04:53 MET Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id JAA10517 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 09:02:42 EDT Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA18466 for mystara-l-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:32:56 -0500 Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA18459 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:32:49 -0500 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA28524 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:32:37 -0500 Received: from shelley.mitre.org.faat (shelley.mitre.org [128.29.196.11]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id IAA07460 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:33:16 -0400 Received: from legend.mitre.org.faat by shelley.mitre.org.faat (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12215; Fri, 20 Oct 95 08:29:56 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 08:29:56 EDT From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Message-Id: <9510201229.AA12215@shelley.mitre.org.faat> To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Glantri/Darokin Cave Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > As far as I can remember there is no mention of such a passage in > the Glantri gazetteer. In fact the only reference is the map from the > Orcs of Thar. Which of course raises the question of whether it exists > or the orcs just wish it did. > > I was thinking that too, since it was never mentioned anywhere else. And that map has several amusing things on it. Such as "New Elven Homeland (Suggested)", "If you got this far you cheated", and of course "Copyright 1983, TSR Oink. All Orc Reserves." Anybody else get the feeling this Gaz was the inspiration for the WarHammer Orks? _____________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Sun Oct 22 01:35:15 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 14:04:53 MET Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id JAA10529 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 09:02:43 EDT Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA18492 for mystara-l-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:35:01 -0500 Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA18487 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:34:57 -0500 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA28580 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:34:45 -0500 Received: from shelley.mitre.org.faat (shelley.mitre.org [128.29.196.11]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id IAA07756 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:35:25 -0400 Received: from legend.mitre.org.faat by shelley.mitre.org.faat (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12218; Fri, 20 Oct 95 08:32:06 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 08:32:06 EDT From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Message-Id: <9510201232.AA12218@shelley.mitre.org.faat> To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > > All this talk of the Old Ones - does anyone else get the feeling > that they are in no way benevolent? This has always seemed to me a > reference to the Elder Gods of the Weird Tales triumvirate. > > Also, although I've enjoyed the debates that have been raging > between what is a god and what is an immortal, I think it should be > stated that perhaps there was never really meant to be too much of a > difference. T$R simply changed all references to gods to immortals > (classic example: The Arm of God from the Companion Rules became the Arm > of the Immortals). > > Finally, the original concept that Mystara was really our own > world in the ancient past (the geographical similarities, the fact that > the Alphatians are supposed to represent the Atlanteans in module CM1 > Test of the Warlords, etc.) has always seemed like a neat idea. So, in > my own campaign, the d'Ambervilles and MacGregors come from the distant > future, etc.) This would kind of explain the reason for some of the changes made between Set 5 and WotI. The addition of the need for worshippers and some of the other changes made them alot closer to regular Gods. _______________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Sun Oct 22 01:38:45 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 17:27:30 MET Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id MAA27520 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 12:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 12:26:40 EDT Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA19386 for mystara-l-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 10:51:37 -0500 Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA19381 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 10:51:33 -0500 Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA07035 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 10:51:21 -0500 Received: from unixs2.cis.pitt.edu (megst19@unixs2.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.29]) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.6.12/cispo-2.0.1.1) ID for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:42:59 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:42:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules To: mystara-l@io.com In-Reply-To: <9510191644.AA08680@shelley.mitre.org.faat> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com On Thu, 19 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > PS2 I keep the original PC stats for each incarnation. In the Hollow > > World, this would be impossible for most people to be clerics/mages. Any > > ideas? > > Perhaps let them keep the same die rolls, but rearrange their > stats to suit the new form. Also I don't think > questing for Immortality applies as easily to Hollow World characters, > such an epic quest could concieveably violate the Spell of Preservation, > making at least an added challenge. 1st, most of my PCs don't have 16s to put for INT or WIS unless I reduce the other stats to make up for it. Also, Hollow World immortality is not that hard. I have had 1 character die on the way to the mountain, 1 die in the quest(creating anew society of thieves of different nations is not upsetting the framework of the Hollow World) and I had 2 paladins complete the Energy quest(their patron was for NRG). Their quest then: 1)be acknowledged the best fighters in whatever radius - No one warrior in Milenia could really challenge them(except Tythus, whom they both beat) 2)transform the land(remade one of the minor cities(Phos) a center of Tarastian religion in Milenia - a bit upsetting of the HW framework, but basically just the elevation of an old cultural element. 3)Find 2 artifacts(1 each) - no difference than in outer world 4)Get 12(double PCs, double NPCs) to rise 12 levels. The paladins' daughter and 11 other youngish followers of Tarastia join the 2 paladins in their above-mentioned quests and also several side adventures focusing on the NPC(approx. 1 adventure per NPC). -took some time(3 game years at least, I think and was tough to get all that XP but no difference than Outer World Was there a fifth part to the quest? "I'm throwing just as hard," an aging Lefty Gomez said, "but the ball isn't getting up there as fast" ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Sun Oct 22 01:40:19 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 19:42:12 MET Received: from ncrgw2.UUCP (ncrgw2@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id OAA06526 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:41:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw2.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 14:41:32 EDT Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20341 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:31:43 -0500 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA15122 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:31:08 -0500 Received: from shelley.mitre.org.faat (shelley.mitre.org [128.29.196.11]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id OAA03568 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:31:49 -0400 Received: from legend.mitre.org.faat by shelley.mitre.org.faat (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12847; Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:28:30 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:28:30 EDT From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Message-Id: <9510201828.AA12847@shelley.mitre.org.faat> To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Alphatia Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com Alphatia (Celestial of Energy) Alignment: LG Race: Human (Alphatian) Sex: Female Clerics Alignment: Any Lawful or Neutral Followers Alignment: Any Ability Requirements: Intelligence 9 Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: Any bludgeoning Spells Granted: All (Major) Astral (Major) Charm (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Protection (Major) Wards (Major) Granted Powers: Cure Light Wounds once per day +2 to Saves vs. Spells Clerics of Alphatia may choose one school of Wizard spells to learn as though they were priest spells. Turn Undead Symbol: A glowing shield with paints on it as an artists palette Interests: Pacifism, Artistry, Alphatia, Magical Studies, Opposing Alphaks Worshipped in: Alphatia, Bellisaria, Isle of Dawn, Norworld _______________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Sun Oct 22 01:40:32 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 20:02:37 MET Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id PAA08011 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 15:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 15:02:16 EDT Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA20328 for mystara-l-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:30:11 -0500 Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20323 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:30:02 -0500 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA15024 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:29:44 -0500 Received: from shelley.mitre.org.faat (shelley.mitre.org [128.29.196.11]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id OAA03219 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:30:12 -0400 Received: from legend.mitre.org.faat by shelley.mitre.org.faat (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12843; Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:26:48 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:26:48 EDT From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Message-Id: <9510201826.AA12843@shelley.mitre.org.faat> To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Alphaks Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com Alphaks "The Roaring Fiend" (Empyreal of Entropy) Alignment: CE Race: Human (Alphatian) Sex: Male Clerics Alignment: Any Chaotic Followers Alignment: Any Chaotic Ability Requirements: Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: All bludgeoning plus Whip, Scourge, and Dagger Spells Granted: All (Major) Chaos (Major) Charm (Major) Combat (Major) Healing (Major) Necromancy (Major) Summoning (Major) War (Major) Granted Powers: Backstab as a Thief of equal level Cause Light Wounds once per day Detect Good once per round Cast a reversed Aid spell once per day Control Undead Symbol: A horned skull on a flaming background shaped like a pheonix Interests: Mass destruction, especially of Alphatia Worshipped in: Various areas _________________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #10 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #11 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Sunday, 22 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 011 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Sun Oct 22 01:40:36 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 20:02:41 MET Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id PAA08018 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 15:02:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 15:02:20 EDT Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA20380 for mystara-l-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:34:08 -0500 Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20375 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:34:02 -0500 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA15215 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:33:49 -0500 Received: from shelley.mitre.org.faat (shelley.mitre.org [128.29.196.11]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id OAA03907 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:34:29 -0400 Received: from legend.mitre.org.faat by shelley.mitre.org.faat (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12852; Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:30:46 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:30:46 EDT From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Message-Id: <9510201830.AA12852@shelley.mitre.org.faat> To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Asterius Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com Asterius (Eternal of Thought) Alignment: NG Race: Human (Blackmoor) Sex: Male Clerics Alignment: Any (if aspect of thieves, any non-Lawful) Followers Alignment: Any Ability Requirements: Wisdom 12 Dexterity 9 Weapons Allowed: Any weapon useable by Thieves Granted Spells: All (Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Numbers (Major) Protection (Major) Sun (Major) Thought (Major) Travellers (Major) Wards (Major) Granted Powers: Move Silently, this ability starts at an 8% chance modified for Dexterity and Race. It increases by 4% for every level after first. Hide in Shadows, this ability starts at an 8% chance modified for Dexterity and Race. It increases by 4% for every level after first. Clerics of Asterius may cast any spells learnable by members of the Merchant class as if they were normal priest spells. (q.v. Merchant Spells, Gaz 11 Republic of Darokin pp. 14-20) Bonus Proficiencies: Bargaining and Appraising Know Alignment once per day, in addition to the clerics normal spells. Clerics of Asterius have no power over Undead. Symbol: The Moon Interests: Trade, Merchants and Thieves Worshipped in: Any country containing Merchants or Thieves _________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Sun Oct 22 01:40:34 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 20:02:39 MET Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id PAA08014 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 15:02:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 15:02:18 EDT Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA20286 for mystara-l-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:28:31 -0500 Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20281 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:28:25 -0500 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA14927 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:28:08 -0500 Received: from shelley.mitre.org.faat (shelley.mitre.org [128.29.196.11]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id OAA03001 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:28:32 -0400 Received: from legend.mitre.org.faat by shelley.mitre.org.faat (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12840; Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:25:09 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:25:09 EDT From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Message-Id: <9510201825.AA12840@shelley.mitre.org.faat> To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priests Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com I've been working on specialty priests for the Immortals. So far I've only got 5, but I'd like some input before I get too much further. I based all of them off the S&P point system so those who have it can comment on whether or not the points work out. If you don't have it don't worry, I just used the number of points to develop them, nothing in the descriptions is S&P specific. - --------------------------------------------------------- Al-Kalim (Initiate of Time) Alignment: LN Sex: Male Race: Human (Ylari) Clerical Alignment: Any Lawful or Neutral Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Charisma Intelligence 9 Weapons Allowed: Ankus, Bagh nakh, Battle Axe, Blowgun, Bow, Chain, Chakram, Crossbow, Dart, Flail, Jambiya, Katar, Hand Axe, Mace, Cutlass, Tulwar, Long Sword, Sabre, Scimitar, Short sword, Great Scimitar Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Minor) Charm (Major) Combat (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental (Minor) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Plant (Minor) Protection (Major) Time (Major) War (Major) Weather (Minor) Granted Powers: Create Food and Water once per day Bonus Nonweapon Proficiency of Bureaucracy Turn Undead Symbol: A palm in the desert with a rising moon behind. Interests: Ylaruam, making the Ylari desert lush, Scholarship, Courage, Warriors Worshiped in: Ylaruam, Saragon (Savage Coast) _______________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Sun Oct 22 01:40:26 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 19:48:09 MET Received: from ncrgw2.UUCP (ncrgw2@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id OAA07156 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw2.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 14:47:45 EDT Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20388 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:34:54 -0500 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA15240 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:34:40 -0500 Received: from shelley.mitre.org.faat (shelley.mitre.org [128.29.196.11]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id OAA04005 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:35:18 -0400 Received: from legend.mitre.org.faat by shelley.mitre.org.faat (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12861; Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:31:59 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:31:59 EDT From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Message-Id: <9510201831.AA12861@shelley.mitre.org.faat> To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Atruaghin Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com Atruaghin (Hierarch of Matter) Alignment: LN Race: Human (Azcan / Atruaghin Clans) Sex: Male Clerics Alignment: 90% Lawful, 10% Neutral Followers Alignment: Lawful of Neutral Ability Requirements: Wisdom 12 Weapons Allowed: Any weapon appropriate to an Amerindian Culture Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Plant (Major) Protection (Major) Weather (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Atruaghin may never be decieved by lies. Clerics of Atruaghin may Turn Undead Symbol: Himself (Chieftain of the Clans) Interests: the Atruaghin Clans, "New Way" Azcans, Opposing Atzanteotl Worshipped in: Atruaghin Plateau, Azca _______________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Mon Oct 23 01:35:15 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 14:04:53 MET Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id JAA10517 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 09:02:42 EDT Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA18466 for mystara-l-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:32:56 -0500 Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA18459 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:32:49 -0500 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA28524 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:32:37 -0500 Received: from shelley.mitre.org.faat (shelley.mitre.org [128.29.196.11]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id IAA07460 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:33:16 -0400 Received: from legend.mitre.org.faat by shelley.mitre.org.faat (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12215; Fri, 20 Oct 95 08:29:56 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 08:29:56 EDT From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Message-Id: <9510201229.AA12215@shelley.mitre.org.faat> To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Glantri/Darokin Cave Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > As far as I can remember there is no mention of such a passage in > the Glantri gazetteer. In fact the only reference is the map from the > Orcs of Thar. Which of course raises the question of whether it exists > or the orcs just wish it did. > > I was thinking that too, since it was never mentioned anywhere else. And that map has several amusing things on it. Such as "New Elven Homeland (Suggested)", "If you got this far you cheated", and of course "Copyright 1983, TSR Oink. All Orc Reserves." Anybody else get the feeling this Gaz was the inspiration for the WarHammer Orks? _____________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Mon Oct 23 01:40:37 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 19:48:09 MET Received: from ncrgw2.UUCP (ncrgw2@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id OAA07156 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw2.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 14:47:45 EDT Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20388 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:34:54 -0500 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA15240 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:34:40 -0500 Received: from shelley.mitre.org.faat (shelley.mitre.org [128.29.196.11]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id OAA04005 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:35:18 -0400 Received: from legend.mitre.org.faat by shelley.mitre.org.faat (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12861; Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:31:59 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:31:59 EDT From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Message-Id: <9510201831.AA12861@shelley.mitre.org.faat> To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Atruaghin Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com Atruaghin (Hierarch of Matter) Alignment: LN Race: Human (Azcan / Atruaghin Clans) Sex: Male Clerics Alignment: 90% Lawful, 10% Neutral Followers Alignment: Lawful of Neutral Ability Requirements: Wisdom 12 Weapons Allowed: Any weapon appropriate to an Amerindian Culture Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Plant (Major) Protection (Major) Weather (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Atruaghin may never be decieved by lies. Clerics of Atruaghin may Turn Undead Symbol: Himself (Chieftain of the Clans) Interests: the Atruaghin Clans, "New Way" Azcans, Opposing Atzanteotl Worshipped in: Atruaghin Plateau, Azca _______________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Mon Oct 23 01:40:28 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 19:42:12 MET Received: from ncrgw2.UUCP (ncrgw2@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id OAA06526 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:41:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw2.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 14:41:32 EDT Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20341 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:31:43 -0500 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA15122 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:31:08 -0500 Received: from shelley.mitre.org.faat (shelley.mitre.org [128.29.196.11]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id OAA03568 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:31:49 -0400 Received: from legend.mitre.org.faat by shelley.mitre.org.faat (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12847; Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:28:30 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:28:30 EDT From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Message-Id: <9510201828.AA12847@shelley.mitre.org.faat> To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Alphatia Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com Alphatia (Celestial of Energy) Alignment: LG Race: Human (Alphatian) Sex: Female Clerics Alignment: Any Lawful or Neutral Followers Alignment: Any Ability Requirements: Intelligence 9 Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: Any bludgeoning Spells Granted: All (Major) Astral (Major) Charm (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Protection (Major) Wards (Major) Granted Powers: Cure Light Wounds once per day +2 to Saves vs. Spells Clerics of Alphatia may choose one school of Wizard spells to learn as though they were priest spells. Turn Undead Symbol: A glowing shield with paints on it as an artists palette Interests: Pacifism, Artistry, Alphatia, Magical Studies, Opposing Alphaks Worshipped in: Alphatia, Bellisaria, Isle of Dawn, Norworld _______________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Mon Oct 23 01:40:41 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 20:02:37 MET Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id PAA08011 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 15:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 15:02:16 EDT Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA20328 for mystara-l-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:30:11 -0500 Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20323 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:30:02 -0500 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA15024 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:29:44 -0500 Received: from shelley.mitre.org.faat (shelley.mitre.org [128.29.196.11]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id OAA03219 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:30:12 -0400 Received: from legend.mitre.org.faat by shelley.mitre.org.faat (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12843; Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:26:48 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:26:48 EDT From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Message-Id: <9510201826.AA12843@shelley.mitre.org.faat> To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Alphaks Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com Alphaks "The Roaring Fiend" (Empyreal of Entropy) Alignment: CE Race: Human (Alphatian) Sex: Male Clerics Alignment: Any Chaotic Followers Alignment: Any Chaotic Ability Requirements: Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: All bludgeoning plus Whip, Scourge, and Dagger Spells Granted: All (Major) Chaos (Major) Charm (Major) Combat (Major) Healing (Major) Necromancy (Major) Summoning (Major) War (Major) Granted Powers: Backstab as a Thief of equal level Cause Light Wounds once per day Detect Good once per round Cast a reversed Aid spell once per day Control Undead Symbol: A horned skull on a flaming background shaped like a pheonix Interests: Mass destruction, especially of Alphatia Worshipped in: Various areas _________________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Mon Oct 23 01:35:17 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 14:04:53 MET Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id JAA10529 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 09:02:43 EDT Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA18492 for mystara-l-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:35:01 -0500 Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA18487 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:34:57 -0500 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA28580 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:34:45 -0500 Received: from shelley.mitre.org.faat (shelley.mitre.org [128.29.196.11]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id IAA07756 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:35:25 -0400 Received: from legend.mitre.org.faat by shelley.mitre.org.faat (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12218; Fri, 20 Oct 95 08:32:06 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 08:32:06 EDT From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Message-Id: <9510201232.AA12218@shelley.mitre.org.faat> To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > > All this talk of the Old Ones - does anyone else get the feeling > that they are in no way benevolent? This has always seemed to me a > reference to the Elder Gods of the Weird Tales triumvirate. > > Also, although I've enjoyed the debates that have been raging > between what is a god and what is an immortal, I think it should be > stated that perhaps there was never really meant to be too much of a > difference. T$R simply changed all references to gods to immortals > (classic example: The Arm of God from the Companion Rules became the Arm > of the Immortals). > > Finally, the original concept that Mystara was really our own > world in the ancient past (the geographical similarities, the fact that > the Alphatians are supposed to represent the Atlanteans in module CM1 > Test of the Warlords, etc.) has always seemed like a neat idea. So, in > my own campaign, the d'Ambervilles and MacGregors come from the distant > future, etc.) This would kind of explain the reason for some of the changes made between Set 5 and WotI. The addition of the need for worshippers and some of the other changes made them alot closer to regular Gods. _______________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Mon Oct 23 01:40:46 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 20:02:41 MET Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id PAA08018 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 15:02:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 15:02:20 EDT Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA20380 for mystara-l-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:34:08 -0500 Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20375 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:34:02 -0500 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA15215 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:33:49 -0500 Received: from shelley.mitre.org.faat (shelley.mitre.org [128.29.196.11]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id OAA03907 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:34:29 -0400 Received: from legend.mitre.org.faat by shelley.mitre.org.faat (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12852; Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:30:46 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:30:46 EDT From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Message-Id: <9510201830.AA12852@shelley.mitre.org.faat> To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Asterius Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com Asterius (Eternal of Thought) Alignment: NG Race: Human (Blackmoor) Sex: Male Clerics Alignment: Any (if aspect of thieves, any non-Lawful) Followers Alignment: Any Ability Requirements: Wisdom 12 Dexterity 9 Weapons Allowed: Any weapon useable by Thieves Granted Spells: All (Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Numbers (Major) Protection (Major) Sun (Major) Thought (Major) Travellers (Major) Wards (Major) Granted Powers: Move Silently, this ability starts at an 8% chance modified for Dexterity and Race. It increases by 4% for every level after first. Hide in Shadows, this ability starts at an 8% chance modified for Dexterity and Race. It increases by 4% for every level after first. Clerics of Asterius may cast any spells learnable by members of the Merchant class as if they were normal priest spells. (q.v. Merchant Spells, Gaz 11 Republic of Darokin pp. 14-20) Bonus Proficiencies: Bargaining and Appraising Know Alignment once per day, in addition to the clerics normal spells. Clerics of Asterius have no power over Undead. Symbol: The Moon Interests: Trade, Merchants and Thieves Worshipped in: Any country containing Merchants or Thieves _________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Mon Oct 23 01:40:44 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 20:02:39 MET Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id PAA08014 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 15:02:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 15:02:18 EDT Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA20286 for mystara-l-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:28:31 -0500 Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20281 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:28:25 -0500 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA14927 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:28:08 -0500 Received: from shelley.mitre.org.faat (shelley.mitre.org [128.29.196.11]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id OAA03001 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:28:32 -0400 Received: from legend.mitre.org.faat by shelley.mitre.org.faat (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12840; Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:25:09 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:25:09 EDT From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Message-Id: <9510201825.AA12840@shelley.mitre.org.faat> To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priests Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com I've been working on specialty priests for the Immortals. So far I've only got 5, but I'd like some input before I get too much further. I based all of them off the S&P point system so those who have it can comment on whether or not the points work out. If you don't have it don't worry, I just used the number of points to develop them, nothing in the descriptions is S&P specific. - --------------------------------------------------------- Al-Kalim (Initiate of Time) Alignment: LN Sex: Male Race: Human (Ylari) Clerical Alignment: Any Lawful or Neutral Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Charisma Intelligence 9 Weapons Allowed: Ankus, Bagh nakh, Battle Axe, Blowgun, Bow, Chain, Chakram, Crossbow, Dart, Flail, Jambiya, Katar, Hand Axe, Mace, Cutlass, Tulwar, Long Sword, Sabre, Scimitar, Short sword, Great Scimitar Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Minor) Charm (Major) Combat (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental (Minor) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Plant (Minor) Protection (Major) Time (Major) War (Major) Weather (Minor) Granted Powers: Create Food and Water once per day Bonus Nonweapon Proficiency of Bureaucracy Turn Undead Symbol: A palm in the desert with a rising moon behind. Interests: Ylaruam, making the Ylari desert lush, Scholarship, Courage, Warriors Worshiped in: Ylaruam, Saragon (Savage Coast) _______________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Date: Mon Oct 23 01:38:49 MET 1995 Subject: [none] Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 17:27:30 MET Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id MAA27520 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 12:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 12:26:40 EDT Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA19386 for mystara-l-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 10:51:37 -0500 Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA19381 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 10:51:33 -0500 Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA07035 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 10:51:21 -0500 Received: from unixs2.cis.pitt.edu (megst19@unixs2.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.29]) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.6.12/cispo-2.0.1.1) ID for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:42:59 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:42:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Immortal Rules To: mystara-l@io.com In-Reply-To: <9510191644.AA08680@shelley.mitre.org.faat> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com On Thu, 19 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > PS2 I keep the original PC stats for each incarnation. In the Hollow > > World, this would be impossible for most people to be clerics/mages. Any > > ideas? > > Perhaps let them keep the same die rolls, but rearrange their > stats to suit the new form. Also I don't think > questing for Immortality applies as easily to Hollow World characters, > such an epic quest could concieveably violate the Spell of Preservation, > making at least an added challenge. 1st, most of my PCs don't have 16s to put for INT or WIS unless I reduce the other stats to make up for it. Also, Hollow World immortality is not that hard. I have had 1 character die on the way to the mountain, 1 die in the quest(creating anew society of thieves of different nations is not upsetting the framework of the Hollow World) and I had 2 paladins complete the Energy quest(their patron was for NRG). Their quest then: 1)be acknowledged the best fighters in whatever radius - No one warrior in Milenia could really challenge them(except Tythus, whom they both beat) 2)transform the land(remade one of the minor cities(Phos) a center of Tarastian religion in Milenia - a bit upsetting of the HW framework, but basically just the elevation of an old cultural element. 3)Find 2 artifacts(1 each) - no difference than in outer world 4)Get 12(double PCs, double NPCs) to rise 12 levels. The paladins' daughter and 11 other youngish followers of Tarastia join the 2 paladins in their above-mentioned quests and also several side adventures focusing on the NPC(approx. 1 adventure per NPC). -took some time(3 game years at least, I think and was tough to get all that XP but no difference than Outer World Was there a fifth part to the quest? "I'm throwing just as hard," an aging Lefty Gomez said, "but the ball isn't getting up there as fast" ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #11 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #12 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, 26 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 012 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: urklore@tiac.net (Urklore the Iron) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 22:01:41 -0400 Subject: [Mystara] ?? Is anyone's elses Postiings getting screwed up? I do not get the titles in the postings just some sort of Postmaster thing and then I get all this garble before the text. This just started yeasterday. ****************************************************** * Bill Schwartz, Billcutis of Borg, Iceman Incarnate * * Galaxy Ranger (With Series-5 Brain Implant) * * Leader of ANIME ADVENTURERS, Level 6.5 DM * * Worshipper of Ltdarkstar, Keeper of the Netdisks * * Finisher of The World of XEEN (Might & Magic 4-5) * * Slave to the all poweful JOLT, Internet Lord * * Forever Knight Vampire Fledgling * * "Die Autobots!!" * * "Clearly I can not choose the wine in front of me" * * "It musst give usss our preciousss!" * * "Warp 7 Mr. Crusher, engage." * * "Orbots Unite!" * ****************************************************** ------------------------------ From: urklore@tiac.net (Urklore the Iron) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 22:18:10 -0400 Subject: [Mystara] garble Here is the garble I am getting <---- Begin Included Message ----> Date: Mon Oct 23 01:40:37 MET 1995 From: postmaster@ncrsecp.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com To: ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM!io.com!mystara-l Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 20 Oct 95 19:48:09 MET Received: from ncrgw2.UUCP (ncrgw2@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id OAA07156 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ncrgw2.ATTGIS.COM; 20 Oct 95 14:47:45 EDT Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20388 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:34:54 -0500 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA15240 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:34:40 -0500 Received: from shelley.mitre.org.faat (shelley.mitre.org [128.29.196.11]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id OAA04005 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:35:18 -0400 Received: from legend.mitre.org.faat by shelley.mitre.org.faat (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12861; Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:31:59 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:31:59 EDT From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Message-Id: <9510201831.AA12861@shelley.mitre.org.faat> To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Atruaghin Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com Atruaghin (Hierarch of Matter) Alignment: LN Race: Human (Azcan / Atruaghin Clans) Sex: Male Clerics Alignment: 90% Lawful, 10% Neutral Followers Alignment: Lawful of Neutral Ability Requirements: Wisdom 12 Weapons Allowed: Any weapon appropriate to an Amerindian Culture Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Plant (Major) Protection (Major) Weather (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Atruaghin may never be decieved by lies. Clerics of Atruaghin may Turn Undead Symbol: Himself (Chieftain of the Clans) Interests: the Atruaghin Clans, "New Way" Azcans, Opposing Atzanteotl Worshipped in: Atruaghin Plateau, Azca _______________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont <---- End Included Message ----> ****************************************************** * Bill Schwartz, Billcutis of Borg, Iceman Incarnate * * Galaxy Ranger (With Series-5 Brain Implant) * * Leader of ANIME ADVENTURERS, Level 6.5 DM * * Worshipper of Ltdarkstar, Keeper of the Netdisks * * Finisher of The World of XEEN (Might & Magic 4-5) * * Slave to the all poweful JOLT, Internet Lord * * Forever Knight Vampire Fledgling * * "Die Autobots!!" * * "Clearly I can not choose the wine in front of me" * * "It musst give usss our preciousss!" * * "Warp 7 Mr. Crusher, engage." * * "Orbots Unite!" * ****************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:02:30 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara][Specialty Priests]Alphaks > From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) > Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Alphaks > Alphaks "The Roaring Fiend" (Empyreal of Entropy) > Alignment: CE > Race: Human (Alphatian) > Sex: Male Actually, in WoTI Alphaks is not human. He is a Roaring fiend. A beast much like a balrog. > Worshipped in: Various areas Mainly in Thyatian and Alphatian controlled areas. Though illegal in both nations. - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 08:39:14 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara][Specialty Priests]Alphaks > > Alphaks "The Roaring Fiend" (Empyreal of Entropy) > > Alignment: CE > > Race: Human (Alphatian) > > Sex: Male > > Actually, in WoTI Alphaks is not human. He is a Roaring fiend. A beast > much like a balrog. > True, his manifestation form is commonly that of a Roaring Fiend (or Type V demon, or Balrog, or whatever Tanari they're calling it now). But Alphaks was originally an Alphatian (from the Alphatian Home World IIRC). I thought it might be more useful to include the Immortals Race/Country of origin rather than Manifestation form. If anyone thinks it worth while, I can add their most common manifestation form as well. > > Worshipped in: Various areas > Mainly in Thyatian and Alphatian controlled areas. Though illegal > in both nations. I was pretty sure of this, but I couldn't remember if he was worshipped in the Hollow World, or Red Steel lands at all. _____________ |] |] |}ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 05:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara][Specialty Priests]Alphaks On Mon, 23 Oct 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > Actually, in WoTI Alphaks is not human. He is a Roaring fiend. A beast > > much like a balrog. > > > True, his manifestation form is commonly that of a Roaring Fiend (or > Type V demon, or Balrog, or whatever Tanari they're calling it now). > But Alphaks was originally an Alphatian (from the Alphatian Home World > IIRC). Yup. As a matter of fact, he was the Emporer of Alphatia. It was his proclamation that the Fire Wizards had won the Fire vs. Air debate that lead to the destruction of Alphatia, and the exodus of the Air faction to Mystara. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? >Is anyone's elses Postiings getting screwed up? I do not get the titles in the >postings just some sort of Postmaster thing and then I get all this garble >before the text. This just started yeasterday. Me too...not only that but I'm getting the same messages over and over again. Can anyone explain what's going on and what we can do to fix the problem??? Ron & Laura ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:39:58 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? > >Is anyone's elses Postiings getting screwed up? I do not get the titles in the > >postings just some sort of Postmaster thing and then I get all this garble > >before the text. This just started yeasterday. > > Me too...not only that but I'm getting the same messages over and over > again. Can anyone explain what's going on and what we can do to fix the > problem??? > Ron & Laura The problem seems to be in Bruce Pierpoint's end of the mailing list, since those are the ones that are bouncing around (or maybe because his are the most recent). the last ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 15:04:15 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? > > The problem seems to be in Bruce Pierpoint's end of the mailing list, > since those are the ones that are bouncing around (or maybe because > his are the most recent). > > > the last > I don't think its me. I haven't had any trouble with any of my other mail. I think there were a few other posts repeated as well. I might be wrong though. Could it have been something with the format of the files I was sending? They were just plain Unix text, cut and pasted into a mail message. _________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:22:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? I believe that it was a bounce of an unknown address. It was only Bruce's messages that bounced. I recieved his original messages find, Then later I recieved a message from a post master about a bad address. Thus I think it is a bad address, not the messages themselves. Just a thouhgt. Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 14:50:30 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? > From owner-mystara-l@io.com Mon Oct 23 14:48:41 1995 > Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:18:35 -0400 (EDT) > From: Mistress > Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? > To: mystara-l@io.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > CHARSET=US-ASCII> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com > Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > X-Mdf: Mail for pierpont sent to pierpont@shelley.mitre.org > Content-Length: 376 > > > >Is anyone's elses Postiings getting screwed up? I do not get the titles in the > >postings just some sort of Postmaster thing and then I get all this garble > >before the text. This just started yeasterday. > > Me too...not only that but I'm getting the same messages over and over > again. Can anyone explain what's going on and what we can do to fix the > problem??? > No clue. But the same thing was happening to me. So far, the problem seems to have fixed itself. Nothing I've gotten today has been repeated. ________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: Michael S Lewis Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:38:45 CDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? OK, I'm a relatively new DM, and brand new to Mystara. I've got the Glantri, Karameikos and Red Steel boxed sets and the third Poor Wizards Almanac. I'd still like to see a little (OK, maybe a lot) more info on the Immortals, though. Red Steel does a fairly good job describing the Immortals for that area, and there's a brief list in the PWA, but what I'm looking for is a good 'catalog' of Immortals. Does such a thing exist? Also any info on the Old Ones is appreciated. Thanks, Michael Lewis mslewis@iastate.edu ------------------------------ From: "FORLAK THE SAGE" Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 10:41:39 GMT+1000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? > To: mystara-l@io.com > Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? > Date sent: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:38:45 CDT > From: Michael S Lewis > Send reply to: mystara-l@io.com > OK, I'm a relatively new DM, and brand new to Mystara. I've got the Glantri, > Karameikos and Red Steel boxed sets and the third Poor Wizards Almanac. I'd > still like to see a little (OK, maybe a lot) more info on the Immortals, > though. Red Steel does a fairly good job describing the Immortals for that > area, and there's a brief list in the PWA, but what I'm looking for is a good > 'catalog' of Immortals. Does such a thing exist? Also any info on the Old Ones > is appreciated. > > Thanks, > Michael Lewis > mslewis@iastate.edu > > Try checking out the Hollow World Box set. It has a large description of Mystaran Immortals...including a history, and what there interests in Mystara are A question aside from the one above. Is Red Steel a part of Mystara. I did not think it was, any info would be good...ie its location etc... ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 08:28:02 EDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? > From owner-mystara-l@io.com Tue Oct 24 06:59:28 1995 > From: "FORLAK THE SAGE" > Organization: University of Ballarat > To: mystara-l@io.com > Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 10:41:39 GMT+1000 > Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? > Priority: normal > X-Mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1a) > Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com > Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > X-Mdf: Mail for pierpont sent to pierpont@shelley.mitre.org > Content-Length: 1069 > > > To: mystara-l@io.com > > Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? > > Date sent: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:38:45 CDT > > From: Michael S Lewis > > Send reply to: mystara-l@io.com > > > OK, I'm a relatively new DM, and brand new to Mystara. I've got the Glantri, > > Karameikos and Red Steel boxed sets and the third Poor Wizards Almanac. I'd > > still like to see a little (OK, maybe a lot) more info on the Immortals, > > though. Red Steel does a fairly good job describing the Immortals for that > > area, and there's a brief list in the PWA, but what I'm looking for is a good > > 'catalog' of Immortals. Does such a thing exist? Also any info on the Old Ones > > is appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > Michael Lewis > > mslewis@iastate.edu > > > > > > Try checking out the Hollow World Box set. It has a large description > of Mystaran Immortals...including a history, and what there interests > in Mystara are If you can find it Wrath of the Immortals has some more info on the Immortals (alot of it is the same as the HW box). As for the Old Ones, not much is mentioned anywhere. The most info seems to be in the old Set 5 Immortal Rules Boxed Set. > A question aside from the one above. Is Red Steel a part of Mystara. > I did not think it was, any info would be good...ie its location > etc... > Red Steel is located on the Western half of Brun. It includes everything from Slagovich (qv X6 Quagmire!) west along the coast. Most of the areas were visited in the Voyage of the Princess Ark and the Champions of Mystara boxed set. Its really not a bad set. Its another CD campaign, but mostly background music, with a few short speech tracks. The first CD had 1 or 2 speeches, and the second was all music. If you want any more info just ask. _______________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 10:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and Planescape On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Electric Monk wrote: > character creation rules..and then one throws in "Colors of Magic" > from Dragon mag and poof.. it is a much better game.. hello? What's this "Colors of Magic" thing? Never heard of it and wouldn't mind being briefed. Thanks :) --Azure a.k.a. David Leland v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 10:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara and Planescape On Tue, 24 Oct 1995, David 'Azure' Leland wrote: > > What's this "Colors of Magic" thing? Never heard of it and > wouldn't mind being briefed. Thanks :) This was already answered. Sorry for the clutter. :) --Azure a.k.a. David Leland v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v ------------------------------ From: crjoseph@wnc.com Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 00:46:06 +0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? In> From: "FORLAK THE SAGE" In> To: mystara-l@io.com In> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 10:41:39 GMT+1000 In> Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? In> A question aside from the one above. Is Red Steel a part of Mystara. In> I did not think it was, any info would be good...ie its location In> etc... If memory serves me right, Red Steel is officially a part of Mystara, but is designed to be transplantable anywhere. I can't quite remember the Savage Coast's location on Mystara though. Winter Arcane ... "My life is burning, could you read by the light?" ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:06:57 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? Hey Listers, Red steel and the Savage Cost are west of the known world(gazzetters). It is just west of the peninsula on the far side of the Sind Desert, but east of the arm of the immortals. The main drawback with the Red steel boixed set is the cheap map that they put in it. Its more of a childs map, as compared to the old gazzetters map. I have talked with a TSR rep and asked about the Almanac that is due out for mystara. He said it was going to be a different map type than what was in Red Steel, but he did not say that they were going back to gazztter type of maps (I hope so). Later Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com ------------------------------ From: Michael S Lewis Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:29:36 CDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? The thing that bugs me about the Red Steel set is the way they trip over themselves emphasizing the fact that it can be used with any campaign setting, not just Mystara. Could it be they knew at the time that the Mystara line was being discontinued? I don't have much Forgotten Realms stuff, but something tells me that FR expansions don't have sections talking about how it could be easily moved into other worlds. On the other hand, I've been wrong before. Michael Lewis mslewis@iastate.edu ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:43:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? On Wed, 25 Oct 1995, Michael S Lewis wrote: > The thing that bugs me about the Red Steel set is the way they trip over > themselves emphasizing the fact that it can be used with any campaign setting, > not just Mystara. Could it be they knew at the time that the Mystara line was > being discontinued? I don't have much Forgotten Realms stuff, but something > tells me that FR expansions don't have sections talking about how it could be > easily moved into other worlds. To give TSR credit, Red Steel seemed intended to be setting-independent from the start. Although it is officially on Mystara, it is designed for easy portability. In the TSR catalog, it is located in its own section, not with the other Mystara stuff. A good comparison would be Al-Qadim. Although the rules say it is officially located on Toril, the Forgotten Realms world, there is virtually no element in Al-Qadim that is dependent on FR. It could be put anywhere you like. And they specifically state this. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Cthulhu, eh? I'll try and backstab him" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:56:21 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Hi, I'm new here... Well met, Friends of Mystara! [Oops, wrong campaign setting? Never mind...] I'm new to the mailinglist and thought it would be a good idea to introduce me first. I live in Germany and have run a number of short and long campaigns on Mystara (using D&D) in the last---hmm---seven years? I guess that's the number. I mainly use Karameikos but my most recent campaign involved a lot of travelling, from Darokin to the Five Shires to Iriendi to Darokin to Minrothad. And now my players are headed for Karameikos and the wonderful B10 module. And goals are already set for X1 and X2 after that's done. And hey: "Is Bargle with you?" rules. :-) If anyone from Germany is on this list, I'd like to hear from you privatly, maybe some "module exchanges" are possible? By(T)e... Peter... - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2i mQBhAi5ABr0AAAECmgMvdIdvt/ialQO8IsoB6tRSkdivRlhhuzNAYAK/CyIvxUuo 0V5EXOf6R445FErUt2B2YG4yos9e6rBlWOOVr9ijZfTH0bNZlXCdCpThInn0eMDK 7QAFEbQqUGV0ZXIgRnJvZWhsaWNoIDxwLmZyb2VobGljaEBhbWMuY3ViZS5uZXQ+ tBhwLmZyb2VobGljaEBhbWMuY3ViZS5uZXQ= =sKOf - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #12 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #13 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Saturday, 4 November 1995 Volume 01 : Number 013 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:56:21 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Hi, I'm new here... Well met, Friends of Mystara! [Oops, wrong campaign setting? Never mind...] I'm new to the mailinglist and thought it would be a good idea to introduce me first. I live in Germany and have run a number of short and long campaigns on Mystara (using D&D) in the last---hmm---seven years? I guess that's the number. I mainly use Karameikos but my most recent campaign involved a lot of travelling, from Darokin to the Five Shires to Iriendi to Darokin to Minrothad. And now my players are headed for Karameikos and the wonderful B10 module. And goals are already set for X1 and X2 after that's done. And hey: "Is Bargle with you?" rules. :-) If anyone from Germany is on this list, I'd like to hear from you privatly, maybe some "module exchanges" are possible? By(T)e... Peter... - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2i mQBhAi5ABr0AAAECmgMvdIdvt/ialQO8IsoB6tRSkdivRlhhuzNAYAK/CyIvxUuo 0V5EXOf6R445FErUt2B2YG4yos9e6rBlWOOVr9ijZfTH0bNZlXCdCpThInn0eMDK 7QAFEbQqUGV0ZXIgRnJvZWhsaWNoIDxwLmZyb2VobGljaEBhbWMuY3ViZS5uZXQ+ tBhwLmZyb2VobGljaEBhbWMuY3ViZS5uZXQ= =sKOf - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:56:21 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Hi, I'm new here... Well met, Friends of Mystara! [Oops, wrong campaign setting? Never mind...] I'm new to the mailinglist and thought it would be a good idea to introduce me first. I live in Germany and have run a number of short and long campaigns on Mystara (using D&D) in the last---hmm---seven years? I guess that's the number. I mainly use Karameikos but my most recent campaign involved a lot of travelling, from Darokin to the Five Shires to Iriendi to Darokin to Minrothad. And now my players are headed for Karameikos and the wonderful B10 module. And goals are already set for X1 and X2 after that's done. And hey: "Is Bargle with you?" rules. :-) If anyone from Germany is on this list, I'd like to hear from you privatly, maybe some "module exchanges" are possible? By(T)e... Peter... - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2i mQBhAi5ABr0AAAECmgMvdIdvt/ialQO8IsoB6tRSkdivRlhhuzNAYAK/CyIvxUuo 0V5EXOf6R445FErUt2B2YG4yos9e6rBlWOOVr9ijZfTH0bNZlXCdCpThInn0eMDK 7QAFEbQqUGV0ZXIgRnJvZWhsaWNoIDxwLmZyb2VobGljaEBhbWMuY3ViZS5uZXQ+ tBhwLmZyb2VobGljaEBhbWMuY3ViZS5uZXQ= =sKOf - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ------------------------------ From: Wildmule@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:32:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois) wrote: >> I have talked with a TSR rep and asked about the Almanac that is due out for mystara. He said it was going to be a different map type than what was in Red Steel, but he did not say that they were going back to gazztter type of maps (I hope so).<< Theoretically, the fold-out map bound into Joshuan's Almanac (coming soon!) should look like something artists living in the Known World would have done. The map itself shows the Known World (from a bit of Sind in the west to the eastern coast of Brun, and from the coastal waters to the south up to ---hmm, I forget how far to the north we went with it; far enough to make a square). Surrounding that are illustrations of various places of interest in the Known World. No hexes -- more like the black & white maps in past Almanacs, showing terrain features, with the squares removed. But in color. At least, that's what the draft of the map I sent them looked like. I won't see what they've actually come up with until I get the final product... Best regards, Ann Dupuis wildmule@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Reddz Greennish Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:03:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? On Mon, 23 Oct 1995, Michael S Lewis wrote: > OK, I'm a relatively new DM, and brand new to Mystara. I've got the Glantri, > Karameikos and Red Steel boxed sets and the third Poor Wizards Almanac. I'd > still like to see a little (OK, maybe a lot) more info on the Immortals, > though. Red Steel does a fairly good job describing the Immortals for that > area, and there's a brief list in the PWA, but what I'm looking for is a good > 'catalog' of Immortals. Does such a thing exist? Also any info on the Old Ones > is appreciated. > > Thanks, > Michael Lewis > mslewis@iastate.edu > > AS AN "OLD" DM, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU TRY TO FIND THE GOLD BOXED SET OF D&D RULES (TITLED "IMMORTAL RULES SET"). ALTERNATIVELY YOU SHOULD STILL BE ABLE TO GET A COPY OF THE "WRATH OF THE IMMORTALS" BOXED SET. BOTH OF THESE ARE GOOD SOURCES OF INFO, THOUGH OUT OF DATE AND DEFINITELY NOT 2ND EDITION STUFF. ALSO OUT OF DATE IS THE RULES CYCLOPEDIA. I HOWEVER AM NOT TOO SURE OF THE CONTENT OF IMMORTAL INFO IN THAT VOLUME. FOR A LIGHT CAMPAIGN THAT HAS VERY LITTLE IMMORTAL/PLAYER INTERACTION I SUGGEST JUST USING THE INFO IN THE PWA AND NOT REALLY WORRY ABOUT SPECIFIC POWERS (COME ON, WHOSE KIDDING WHO, THEY ARE GODS, AREN'T THEY?) AS FOR OLD ONES, THE GOLD BOXED SET HAS THE BEST DESCRIPTION, BUT BASICALLY THEY ARE THE MYSTERIOUS CREATORS OF THE MULTIVERSE WHO LIVE BEYOND EVEN THE IMMORTALS PERCEPTION (ABOVE THE 5TH DIMENSION) AND NO LONGER (SUPPOSEDLY) INTERACT WITH THE MULTIVERSE, BUT WAIT FOR OTHER BEINGS TO RISE FROM THE LOWER DIMENSIONS TO JOIN THEM. WELL, I HOPE THIS HAS BEEN INFORMATIVE ENOUGH FOR YOU, IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM, BUT I'M NOT TOO OFTEN ON THE NET. I OWN ALL THE MATERIALS I'VE MENTIONED AND THEN SOME, AND PROBABLY ANYONE ELSE IN THIS FORUM DOES TOO, SO IF YOU CAN'T GET AHOLD OF ME JUST ASK AROUND SOMEMORE! TA TA!!! {%#@#%} -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ {%#@#%} {#@%@#} {#@%@#} {@%#%@} Reddz Greennish {@%#%@} {%#@#%} UNIVERSITY OF MANITOBA {%#@#%} {#@%@#} umreddy@cc.umanitoba.ca {#@%@#} {@%#%@} {@%#%@} {%#@#%} ======================= ---'---<-{@ ======================= {%#@#%} {#@%@#} {#@%@#} {@%#%@} Without SIGHT we cannot FIND,Without HEARING we cannot LEARN {@%#%@} {%#@#%} Without SMELL we cannot KNOW,Without TASTE we cannot ENJOY, {%#@#%} {@%#%@} Without TOUCH we cannot LOVE. {#@%@#} {%#@#%} {@%#%@} {#@%@#} @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- {%#@#%} ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 13:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? >On Mon, 23 Oct 1995, Michael S Lewis wrote: >> OK, I'm a relatively new DM, and brand new to Mystara. I've got the Glantri, >> Karameikos and Red Steel boxed sets and the third Poor Wizards Almanac. I'd >> still like to see a little (OK, maybe a lot) more info on the Immortals, >> though. Red Steel does a fairly good job describing the Immortals for that >> area, and there's a brief list in the PWA, but what I'm looking for is a good >> 'catalog' of Immortals. Does such a thing exist? Also any info on the Old Ones >> is appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> Michael Lewis >> mslewis@iastate.edu >> >> >AS AN "OLD" DM, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU TRY TO FIND THE GOLD BOXED SET OF D&D >RULES (TITLED "IMMORTAL RULES SET"). ALTERNATIVELY YOU SHOULD STILL BE >ABLE TO GET A COPY OF THE "WRATH OF THE IMMORTALS" BOXED SET. BOTH OF >THESE ARE GOOD SOURCES OF INFO, THOUGH OUT OF DATE AND DEFINITELY NOT 2ND >EDITION STUFF. ALSO OUT OF DATE IS THE RULES CYCLOPEDIA. I HOWEVER AM NOT >TOO SURE OF THE CONTENT OF IMMORTAL INFO IN THAT VOLUME. FOR A LIGHT >CAMPAIGN THAT HAS VERY LITTLE IMMORTAL/PLAYER INTERACTION I SUGGEST JUST >USING THE INFO IN THE PWA AND NOT REALLY WORRY ABOUT SPECIFIC POWERS >(COME ON, WHOSE KIDDING WHO, THEY ARE GODS, AREN'T THEY?) >AS FOR OLD ONES, THE GOLD BOXED SET HAS THE BEST DESCRIPTION, BUT >BASICALLY THEY ARE THE MYSTERIOUS CREATORS OF THE MULTIVERSE WHO LIVE >BEYOND EVEN THE IMMORTALS PERCEPTION (ABOVE THE 5TH DIMENSION) AND NO >LONGER (SUPPOSEDLY) INTERACT WITH THE MULTIVERSE, BUT WAIT FOR OTHER >BEINGS TO RISE FROM THE LOWER DIMENSIONS TO JOIN THEM. >WELL, I HOPE THIS HAS BEEN INFORMATIVE ENOUGH FOR YOU, IF YOU HAVE ANY >OTHER QUESTIONS I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM, BUT I'M NOT TOO OFTEN ON >THE NET. I OWN ALL THE MATERIALS I'VE MENTIONED AND THEN SOME, AND >PROBABLY ANYONE ELSE IN THIS FORUM DOES TOO, SO IF YOU CAN'T GET AHOLD OF >ME JUST ASK AROUND SOMEMORE! >TA TA!!! >{%#@#%} -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ -+~@ {%#@#%} >{#@%@#} {#@%@#} >{@%#%@} Reddz Greennish {@%#%@} >{%#@#%} UNIVERSITY OF MANITOBA {%#@#%} >{#@%@#} umreddy@cc.umanitoba.ca {#@%@#} >{@%#%@} {@%#%@} >{%#@#%} ======================= ---'---<-{@ ======================= {%#@#%} >{#@%@#} {#@%@#} >{@%#%@} Without SIGHT we cannot FIND,Without HEARING we cannot LEARN {@%#%@} >{%#@#%} Without SMELL we cannot KNOW,Without TASTE we cannot ENJOY, {%#@#%} >{@%#%@} Without TOUCH we cannot LOVE. {#@%@#} >{%#@#%} {@%#%@} >{#@%@#} @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- @~+- {%#@#% } ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 13:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Immortals From: IN%"mystara-l@io.com" 27-OCT-1995 12:32:00.05 To: IN%"mystara-l@io.com" CC: IN%"mystara-l@io.com" Subj: RE: [Mystara] ?? Return-path: Received: from lists.io.com ("port 4551"@lists.io.com) by utkvx.utk.edu (PMDF V5.0-4 #9964) id <01HWXO5OWVIO9SA0XN@utkvx.utk.edu> for domnatrx@utkvx.utk.edu; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 12:31:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA05249 for mystara-l-outgoing; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:03:28 -0500 Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA05244 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:03:22 -0500 Received: from electra.cc.umanitoba.ca (root@electra.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.16.23]) by deliverator.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA13828 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:03:10 -0500 Received: from merak.cc.umanitoba.ca (umreddy@merak.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.108.10]) by electra.cc.umanitoba.ca (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA01924 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:03:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: by merak.cc.umanitoba.ca (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA01094; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:03:47 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:03:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Reddz Greennish Subject: Re: [Mystara] ?? In-reply-to: <9510232038.AA02045@pv74ac.vincent.iastate.edu> Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com To: mystara-l@io.com Cc: mystara-l@io.com Reply-to: mystara-l@io.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk On Mon, 23 Oct 1995, Michael S Lewis wrote: > OK, I'm a relatively new DM, and brand new to Mystara. I've got the Glantri, > Karameikos and Red Steel boxed sets and the third Poor Wizards Almanac. I'd > still like to see a little (OK, maybe a lot) more info on the Immortals, > though. Red Steel does a fairly good job describing the Immortals for that > area, and there's a brief list in the PWA, but what I'm looking for is a good > 'catalog' of Immortals. Does such a thing exist? Also any info on the Old Ones > is appreciated. > > Thanks, > Michael Lewis > m Michael, There is only one real source for info on Immortals and that's Wrath of the Immortals boxed set. It is well worth the price for it not only contains thorough Immortal info, but one of the best and most comprehensive modules ever created for and D&D game. In fact, one entire book in the set is devoted to immortals. Here's a list of some it's contents: a list of all main Mystara immortals complete with: background history alignment Sphere of Influence character description (including stats) possible alignments for clerics extra spells, abilities, etc. that their clerics receive weapon choices for clerics how to become an immortal immortal abilities, spells, and special powers immortal-level monsters immortal plots: what they are, how to do them, etc. how to use immortals in various types of games speculation about the identity and creation of the Old Ones Nowhere (in any module or gaming reference) are the Old Ones put into definitive terms. This leaves personal interpretation up to the DM. I wholeheartedly recommend buying Wrath of the Immortals--it's well worth it. -- Laura email address: domnatrx@utkvx1.utk.edu ------------------------------ From: Berg Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 12:17:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals Don't forget the old OD&D boxed sets...there's a gold box that comes after the red master adventures box, that deals exclusively with immortal PCs. ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 16:55:57 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals Hi! domnatrx@utkvx1.utk.edu wrote: > I wholeheartedly recommend buying Wrath of the Immortals--it's well worth > it. Sure, buy it for the information on Immortals. But I can't come to like the campaign itself very much, _my_ Mystara will _never_ have Shadowelves ruling Canolbarth. Forget it... By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 16:57:11 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals Hi! Someone wrote: > Don't forget the old OD&D boxed sets...there's a gold box that comes > after the red master adventures box, that deals exclusively with immortal PCs. Well, let's get the colors straight: Basic - red, Expert - dark blue, Companion - light blue/cyan, Master - black, Immortals - gold. By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: Berg Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 19:28:01 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals Whoops, sorry, where's my head today? I sometimes get the colors of basic and master sets backwards. *shrug* ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 20:08:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals > Sure, buy it for the information on Immortals. But I can't come to like >the campaign itself very much, _my_ Mystara will _never_ have Shadowelves >ruling Canolbarth. Forget it... >By(T)e... > Peter... In our campaign, a very ingenious elf was able to begin talks between the Shadow Elves and the elves of Alfheim. The conclusion? The shadow elves claim a very small section of Alfheim in return for freeing the forest from its curse, trading rights, etc. (This was brought about by creating a magical creature that feeds on soul gems.) Of course, if anything else happens that changes the history as written by TSR, then I will allow it. That's what roleplaying is all about! - --Laura & Ron ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 17:01:45 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara Hi! On Di 31.10.1995 around 01:08:43 someone wrote in message "[Mystara] Immortals" > Of course, if anything else happens that changes the history as > written by TSR, then I will allow it. That's what roleplaying is all > about! Well, I don't really get this. Do you _follow_ the history or not? As far as I can tell, history is something that TSR does not get right very often. Besides other inconsitencies. Just take a look at X10. :-) By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: Jason MURPHY Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:38:56 +0000 (CUT) Subject: [Mystara] Coin mints in Karameikos Hello there. I was recently reading my Gaz1 and noticed that Threshold contains a secret mint for silver coins. However i could find no mention of the positions of the other secret mints. Could anyone help me out with this as i nintend to incorporate it into a new campaign. Thanks Jason ------------------------------ From: "FORLAK THE SAGE" Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:55:59 GMT+1000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Coin mints in Karameikos > Received: by pilot.stu.cowan.edu.au (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) Previous Message: >Hello there. > I was recently reading my Gaz1 and noticed that Threshold contains a > secret mint for silver coins. However i could find no mention of the > positions of the other secret mints. Could anyone help me out with this > as i nintend to incorporate it into a new campaign. > > Thanks Jason > I think I read in a Dragon magazine once that the other secret mints were in Specularum, Penhaligon and Fort Doom. Not sure what issue but those seem the most appropriate. ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 21:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara >Hi! >On Di 31.10.1995 around 01:08:43 someone wrote in message "[Mystara] Immortals" > Well, I don't really get this. Do you _follow_ the history or not? As >far as I can tell, history is something that TSR does not get right very >often. Besides other inconsitencies. Just take a look at X10. :-) As a general rule, I follow the history, but only if I like it. If I come across any inconsistencies, I try to change them to fit. It's like any "shared world" story that has a lot of people writing "official" history (Star Trek, Doctor Who, etc.)--the history will be filled with glaring errors of continuity, along with other things that are just plain wrong. But the difference between what is canon on a TV show and in a roleplaying campaign are far-spread: on the TV, fans will bicker endlessly on some mundane point, but in a game, if the DM doesn't like it, out it goes!! :') BTW, which module is X10? The terminal at which I am typing is far removed from my D&D library shelf. - ---Ron ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 23:32:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Opinion on Shadowelves taking over Alfheim Greetings, I just wanted to offer my two kopecs on the WotI-described invasion of the Canolbarth by the Shadowelves, the subject of much controversy here a little while back. I happen to like the event, because it really shakes things up in a campaign, even if Alfheim is nice as was. I don't think Rafiel needs to be evil to support such an invasion, although the explanations given in WotI (wanting the Shadowelves to have their "birthright" as it is called & having another country allied with the Fellowship of the Star to protect Glantri) are less than adequate for my taste. Of noteworthy absence in WotI is mention of the repercussions of Alphaks' comet on the Shadowelves' domain. I forget the boundaries of utter destruction to the surface realms mentioned in WotI, but it was certainly far-reaching enough to ensure that much of the Shadowelves' subterranean realm must have been destroyed, tunnels blocked off, etc. Isn't the uninhabitability of a large section of their realm a good reason for the Shadowelves to invade Alfheim? There already were elements in the country that favored an invasion, and even if it wasn't on Rafiel's agenda, he can see the need for his people to migrate. As far as the reactor project is concerned, just because many Shadowelves are displaced into the Canolbarth doesn't mean that ALL have to go. Plenty can remain in the viable areas to continue the work. Comments and reactions welcome. Take care! --Azure a.k.a. David Leland v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 16:11:48 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara > Well, I don't really get this. Do you _follow_ the history or not? As > far as I can tell, history is something that TSR does not get right very > often. Besides other inconsitencies. Just take a look at X10. :-) > What's wrong with X10? I haven't bothered to read through the whole thing, but I was planning on running it at some point. Any major discrepancies I should be aware of? _________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 17:06:00 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara Hi Ron! On Do 02.11.1995 around 02:26:28 you wrote in message "[Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara" > As a general rule, I follow the history, but only if I like it. If > I come across any inconsistencies, I try to change them to fit. That's the hard part. I had a long discussion with someone here in germany regarding DA1-4 (Blackmoor) and the relation of it to the "normal" Mystara history. The guy is _very_ knowledgable about Mystara and he pointed out errors that I would never have noticed without his help. Maybe I should ask him to put together a "Blackmoor & Mystara" FAQ? > BTW, which module is X10? The terminal at which I am typing is far > removed from my D&D library shelf. X10: Red Arrow, Black Shield, by Michael S. Dobson. Describes the "War of the Master of the Desert Nomads" across the Mystara of 1985, ie. without Alphatia, Wendar etc. X10 was later pushed from "current time" to 1200 AC for the GAZ series, because depending on its outcome, much of Mystara would be changed. By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #13 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #14 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, 7 November 1995 Volume 01 : Number 014 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mistress Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 00:04:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara >On Do 02.11.1995 around 02:26:28 you wrote in message >"[Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara" > That's the hard part. I had a long discussion with someone here in >germany regarding DA1-4 (Blackmoor) and the relation of it to the "normal" >Mystara history. The guy is _very_ knowledgable about Mystara and he >pointed out errors that I would never have noticed without his help. Maybe >I should ask him to put together a "Blackmoor & Mystara" FAQ? That would be nice, but the big problem is that there is so much information that it would be hard to cover all the basics. I would love to find out more about Blackmoor. The only info I have on that is found in the GAZ series. Luckily, when I run a campaign the PC's hopefully won't find out much about the "secret" histories of the nations they are in. (History as the DM & Immortals Know It). A lot of adventures won't have much bearing on historical events. The history is there as a guideline on how the natives of that nation think and act (at least that's one of the more important aspects for me). - --Ron PS I had an idea that other day and I thought I would throw it out and see what the good people who read this group thought about it. Since Joaquin's Almanac would be the last Mystara almanac (as far as I know about), maybe after it comes out we could produce a "monthly" version of the almanac. I really don't know anything about computers per se, so I wouldn't know how we could work it so people could FTP it or whatever. It's just a thought... ------------------------------ From: "FORLAK THE SAGE" Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 17:04:53 GMT+1000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara I think Mistress's idea to be a good one. FTP is hard to work out unless someone has already got a site. What WOULD be difficult is putting it all together. Who would have a say on what it contains etc. The idea is a good one. We just have to be careful how we do it. What would its format be, similar to the existing Almanacs ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:02:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Gazeteers I have been thinking about getting some of the GAZ/PC books for my next campaign(which may be a long time away). Anyways, I am thinking of mainly the Ylaurum, Rockhome, Shires, Orcs of Thar, Azca and PC2. Can anyone tell me the pluses/minuses to these various books? Any of the other ones worth it(except GAZ13,PC1 and PC3, which belong to a friend who may be in the campaign if I can start one). Please send all replies directly to me so as not clog up this list. Thanks. ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:09:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Nithian Book I have several questions with obvious errors in the Nithian sourcebook for the Hollow World. I sent some of these questions to TSR a few months back, but got no reply to most of the Qs. So,if anyone can help, thanks. 1)There is no armor table in the back cover. What are the AC values of the new armors described in the book? 2)It mentions statues in the DMs book as a source of new magic, but goes into no further detail as it does with monoliths and pyramids. 3)Are the AC values of bracers cumulative if they are magical. Ex. What would your AC be with Bracers AC7 and a non-magical pair? AC7 and AC6? Two AC7? Assuming that each bracer is a different type. BTW, this is the one question I got a repsonse for-they said only the lowest counts, but compare: Necklace Anklet Bracelet = AC6 Necklace AC7 Anklet AC7 BraceletAC6 = AC6 Am I the only one who sees a flaw with this system? 4)Some monster is mentioned in descriptiuon yet no stats are given. Any info? 5)What would happen if you had Weapon Profencies and Nithian Weapons skill on the same weapon? What if you had skilled in a khopesh sword(or any other new weapon with WP)? ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 13:54:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara >I think Mistress's idea to be a good one. FTP is hard to work out >unless someone has already got a site. What WOULD be difficult is >putting it all together. Who would have a say on what it contains >etc. >The idea is a good one. We just have to be careful how we do it. >What would its format be, similar to the existing Almanacs Putting it all together is the _fun_ part! :') The best way to determine who has a say for what part is to not have any major or wide-ranging storylines. If we have several small storyarcs going on in several parts of Mystara, it should work out fine. We could also divvy up the mundane parts of the almanac (i.e. the weather charts, the horoscopes, etc.) The format should follow the existing Almanacs as closely as possible, except that we wouldn't have to write out the atlas entries, only updates. Does anyone else have any ideas? ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 15:23:52 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara > >I think Mistress's idea to be a good one. FTP is hard to work out > >unless someone has already got a site. What WOULD be difficult is > >putting it all together. Who would have a say on what it contains > >etc. > >The idea is a good one. We just have to be careful how we do it. > >What would its format be, similar to the existing Almanacs > > Putting it all together is the _fun_ part! :') > > The best way to determine who has a say for what part is to not > have any major or wide-ranging storylines. If we have several small > storyarcs going on in several parts of Mystara, it should work out fine. > We could also divvy up the mundane parts of the almanac (i.e. the weather > charts, the horoscopes, etc.) > The format should follow the existing Almanacs as closely as > possible, except that we wouldn't have to write out the atlas entries, only > updates. Does anyone else have any ideas? Sounds good. I might be able to get a hold of some web space to put it on, depending on size. Perhaps soemone good at mapping could attach a map to a few editions, similar to those provided with the existing Almanacs. I thought the horoscopes were a pretty cool idea, but I'm afraid I'm not very good at that kind of thing, has anyone figured out the pattern for which sign is in which sign, etc.? __________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont PS. I'm considering posting a few more specialty priests, but I didn't hear much about the first few. Any comments, suggestions, etc.? Are people interested, or will I just be wasting space sending them? ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 17:23:50 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithian Book On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > I have several questions with obvious errors in the Nithian sourcebook > for the Hollow World. I sent some of these questions to TSR a few months > back, but got no reply to most of the Qs. So,if anyone can help, thanks. > 1)There is no armor table in the back cover. What are the AC values of > the new armors described in the book? > 2)It mentions statues in the DMs book as a source of new magic, but goes > into no further detail as it does with monoliths and pyramids. > 3)Are the AC values of bracers cumulative if they are magical. Ex. What > would your AC be with Bracers AC7 and a non-magical pair? AC7 and AC6? > Two AC7? Assuming that each bracer is a different type. BTW, this is > the one question I got a repsonse for-they said only the lowest counts, > but compare: > Necklace Anklet Bracelet = AC6 > Necklace AC7 Anklet AC7 BraceletAC6 = AC6 > Am I the only one who sees a flaw with this system? > 4)Some monster is mentioned in descriptiuon yet no stats are given. Any > info? > 5)What would happen if you had Weapon Profencies and Nithian Weapons > skill on the same weapon? What if you had skilled in a khopesh sword(or any > other new weapon with WP)? > > Most of this information was clarified in the questions column of the "Voyage of the Princess Ark" series in Dragon magazine a while back. I'm not sure of the issue number, but I'll see if I can dig it up. If you would like, I can post the info here, although it will probably be a bit spammy, as there were a couple of weapon mastery tables included in the article. ------------------------------ From: "Jalroon" Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:44:46 GMT+1000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara > Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 13:54:15 -0500 (EST) > From: Mistress > Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara > To: mystara-l@io.com > Reply-to: mystara-l@io.com > > Putting it all together is the _fun_ part! :') > > The best way to determine who has a say for what part is to not > have any major or wide-ranging storylines. If we have several small > storyarcs going on in several parts of Mystara, it should work out fine. > We could also divvy up the mundane parts of the almanac (i.e. the weather > charts, the horoscopes, etc.) > The format should follow the existing Almanacs as closely as > possible, except that we wouldn't have to write out the atlas entries, only > updates. Does anyone else have any ideas? > > I agree with you that a person or set of people that can work closely should do a section of each part of the world. Another thing that would be good is if the unexplored or as yet unwritten about parts of Mystara were mentioned. If it goes ahead, which I think it should, I would be glad, and very happy to, contribute. The only problem I see is with TSR copyright. One last question. Are the rumours true that TSR have discontinued the Mystara line? If so we could basically do as we please, nearly, with the writing of another Almanac ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 08:23:20 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara > From owner-mystara-l@io.com Tue Nov 7 07:16:06 1995 > From: "Jalroon" > Organization: University of Ballarat > To: mystara-l@io.com > Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:44:46 GMT+1000 > Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara > Priority: normal > X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows v1.11 > Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com > Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > X-Mdf: Mail for pierpont sent to pierpont@shelley.mitre.org > Content-Length: 1357 > > > Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 13:54:15 -0500 (EST) > > From: Mistress > > Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara > > To: mystara-l@io.com > > Reply-to: mystara-l@io.com > > > > > > Putting it all together is the _fun_ part! :') > > > > The best way to determine who has a say for what part is to not > > have any major or wide-ranging storylines. If we have several small > > storyarcs going on in several parts of Mystara, it should work out fine. > > We could also divvy up the mundane parts of the almanac (i.e. the weather > > charts, the horoscopes, etc.) > > The format should follow the existing Almanacs as closely as > > possible, except that we wouldn't have to write out the atlas entries, only > > updates. Does anyone else have any ideas? > > > > > I agree with you that a person or set of people that can work closely > should do a section of each part of the world. Another thing that > would be good is if the unexplored or as yet unwritten about parts of > Mystara were mentioned. > If it goes ahead, which I think it should, I would be glad, and very > happy to, contribute. The only problem I see is with TSR copyright. > > One last question. Are the rumours true that TSR have discontinued > the Mystara line? If so we could basically do as we please, nearly, > with the writing of another Almanac > You won't have any problems with TSR over copyright since it'll all be new material. You may have trouble with trademarks and intellectual property rights. It is true that everything dealing with Mystara except Red Steel was cancelled. Apparently there just wasn't enough interest in the rehashed Gazeteers to make it profittable. However, this doesn't mean we can just write whatever we please (according to TSR anyway) they still own the rights to all the old Mystara material, whether they produce any more or not. Of course if you want to get around them, then just call this list a PBEM and TSR can't do anything. They gave written permission (in the PHB and DMG) for gaming groups to share home brew material. _____________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 08:42:02 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithian Book > On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > > I have several questions with obvious errors in the Nithian sourcebook > > for the Hollow World. I sent some of these questions to TSR a few months > > back, but got no reply to most of the Qs. So,if anyone can help, thanks. > > 1)There is no armor table in the back cover. What are the AC values of > > the new armors described in the book? Your right, I can't find the New Armors chart anywhere. Some suggestions: Harness - -1 to AC, not cumulative with other armors. Breastplate - -3 to AC (Same as Plate Mail breastplate) Textile Armor - -3 to AC (Same as studded leather) Nithian Plate Mail - -6 to AC (Same as Bronze Plate Mail) Battle Helm - -1 to AC, no heat exhuastion Sandals - no armor bonus, prevents damage from hot sand > > 2)It mentions statues in the DMs book as a source of new magic, but goes > > into no further detail as it does with monoliths and pyramids. Statues were covered under the Control Statue "spell". > > 3)Are the AC values of bracers cumulative if they are magical. Ex. What > > would your AC be with Bracers AC7 and a non-magical pair? AC7 and AC6? > > Two AC7? Assuming that each bracer is a different type. BTW, this is > > the one question I got a repsonse for-they said only the lowest counts, > > but compare: > > Necklace Anklet Bracelet = AC6 > > Necklace AC7 Anklet AC7 BraceletAC6 = AC6 > > Am I the only one who sees a flaw with this system? This is a bit tricky. I assume when you say Necklace, Anklet, Braclet = AC6 you mean the proficiencies in those items. The proficiency says it adds to the items magical protection, so if you have proficiency in Bracers, Anklets and Necklace and wear Bracers AC6 and a normal Necklace and Anklets your AC is 3. If you wear Anklets AC7, Bracers AC6, and Necklace your AC is still 3, since only the lowest magical AC applies. > > 4)Some monster is mentioned in descriptiuon yet no stats are given. Any > > info? What's it called? > > 5)What would happen if you had Weapon Profencies and Nithian Weapons > > skill on the same weapon? What if you had skilled in a khopesh sword(or any > > other new weapon with WP)? As far as I can tell. Weapon Proficiency (Basic) is identical to Nithian Weapons. As for Mastery rules I'd use the abilities of the closest weapon already on the table, and increase the damage by a similar amount. So if a Staff does d6 damage at Basic, and d8 at Skilled (as an example, I don't have the book here), then a Staff Bow does d4 at Basic and d6 at Skilled. I would still like to see the weapon mastery tables for the new weapons if someone can find them. _____________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 15:23:00 EST Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Atzanteotl A few more specialty priests. Any suggestions, comments, etc? _______________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont _______________________________________ Atzanteotl (Hierarch of Entropy) Alignment: LE Sex: Male Race: Shadow Elf Clerical Alignment: Any Evil Followers Alignment: Any Neutral or Evil Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Intelligence 9 Weapons Allowed: Any Azcan tribal or Any piercing Spells Granted: All (Major) Charm (Major) Combat (Major) Divination (Major) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Necromantic (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Atzanteotl can command Undead Cause light wounds 3 times per day in addition to the Priest's normal spells Detect Good once per round Clerics of Atzanteotl may cast wizard spells from the Enchantment/Charm school as if they were normal priest spells. Clerics of Atzanteotl are immune to all forms of alignment detection Symbol: a feathered serpent's silhouette Interests: Corruption Worshipped in: Azca, Schattenalf Caverns, Aengmor, Shadow Elf Caverns ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 15:30:18 EST Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Benekander Benekander (Initiate of Energy) Alignment: NG Sex: Male Race: Human (Blackmoor) Clerical Alignment: Any Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: Any Bludgeoning Spells Granted: All (Major) Astral (Major) Charm (Major) Combat (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental (Minor) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Protection (Major) Summoning (Major) Sun (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Benekander may turn Undead Symbol: a Beagle with a hardhat, mechanics uniform, and wrench Interests: Immortal non-interferance Worshipped in: Small followings in many areas ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 15:31:50 EST Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Calitha Starbrow Calitha Starbrow (Celestial of Time) Tallivai Alignment: TN Sex: Female Race: Elf (Evergrun) Clerical Alignment: Any Neutral Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Intelligence 9 Weapons Allowed: Harpoon, Spear, Trident, Net Spells Granted: All (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental Water (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Protection (Major) Time (Major) Weather (Major) Granted Powers: May specialize in any of the allowed weapons. (Under Weapon Mastery rules, clerics of Calitha progress identical to fighters.) +2 to Saves vs. all Water/Cold based effects. Cast all elemental spells as if they were one level higher. Identify aquatic plants and animals, and clean water without fail upon reaching 3rd level. Clerics of Calitha may cast any spell from the Wizard school of Elemental Water as if it were a normal priest spell. Confer Water Breathing as per the spell once per day. Symbol: a pearl in mother of pearl Interests: Oceans, Aquatic Elves Worshipped in: Sea of Dread, Sea of Dawn, many coastal areas, and by the Sea-Elves ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 15:33:19 EST Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Diamond Diamond (Celestial of Matter) The Star Dragon Ruler of Lawful Dragons Alignment: LN Sex: Male Race: Dragon Clerical Alignment: Any Lawful Followers Alignment: Any Lawful Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Intelligence 9 Weapons Allowed: Any Bludgeoning (most worshippers are dragons and do not use weapons) Spells Granted: All (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental Earth (Major) Healing (Major) Guardian (Major) Law (Major) Necromantic (Major) Protection (Major) Sun (Major) Granted Powers: Turn Undead +2 to Turn Undead rolls Receive d10 Hit Points per level instead of d8 Receive exceptional Con and Str bonuses as a fighter Aquire the languages of Dragon-kin (or Human-kin for Dragons) at the rate of one per level. Symbol: A crown resembling a snake swallowing its own tail w/ a diamond on the snake's head. Interests: Lawful Dragons Worshipped in: Anywhere there are dragons. ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 15:34:39 EST Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Diulanna Diulanna (Celestial of Thought) Patroness of Will Alignment: NG Sex: Female Race: Human (Neathar) Clerical Alignment: Any Lawful or Neutral Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 14 Strength 9 Constitution 12 Weapons Allowed: Any Neathar or Hinterland Tribal weapon Spells Granted: All (Major) Charm (Major) Combat (Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Protection (Major) Thought (Major) War (Major) Wards (Major) Granted Powers: Turn Undead -1 bonus to individual initiative Bonus proficiency of Endurance 90% resistance to sleep and charm spells, or similar effects. Symbol: A spear thrust clean through a boulder. Interests: Willpower, Strong willed heros. Worshipped in: Neathar lands, the Hinterlands ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 18:47:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara >Sounds good. I might be able to get a hold of some web space to put it on, depending on size. Perhaps soemone good at mapping could attach a map to a few editions, similar to those provided with the existing Almanacs. I thought the horoscopes were a pretty cool idea, but I'm afraid I'm not very good at that kind of thing, has anyone figured out the pattern for which sign is in which sign, etc.? >PS. I'm considering posting a few more specialty priests, but I didn't hear much about the first few. Any comments, suggestions, etc.? Are people interested, or will I just be wasting space sending them? That's great. Spacewise, we shouldn't have a problem, since I doubt we will be able to print the atlas entries verbatim. We could give a summary of each nation, major NPC's, and any changes since the last Almanac. Also, we can point the reader to the right GAZ or other TSR product for a more detailed description. I haven't seen a pattern to the horoscopes, but I'll dig mine out tonight and see if I can find one. The specialty priests were wonderful--I captured them and saved them to disk. I was hoping TSR was going to release a product with the updated Immortals, but that's a moot point. Keep the specialty priests coming! ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 19:01:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara >I agree with you that a person or set of people that can work closely >should do a section of each part of the world. Another thing that >would be good is if the unexplored or as yet unwritten about parts of >Mystara were mentioned. >If it goes ahead, which I think it should, I would be glad, and very >happy to, contribute. The only problem I see is with TSR copyright. >One last question. Are the rumours true that TSR have discontinued >the Mystara line? If so we could basically do as we please, nearly, >with the writing of another Almanac From what I understand, TSR has discontinued the Mystara line except for Red Steel. Copyright shouldn't be a problem as long as we are careful. We couldn't transfer whole chapters out of the previous Almanacs into our own. If we have original material, TSR (hopefully) won't have a problem with it. Does anyone have any ideas about contacting TSR and finding out? ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #14 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #15 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 8 November 1995 Volume 01 : Number 015 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 06:59:45 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara Hi Bruce! On Do 02.11.1995 around 22:11:48 you wrote in message "[Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara " > > Well, I don't really get this. Do you _follow_ the history or not? As > > far as I can tell, history is something that TSR does not get right very > > often. Besides other inconsitencies. Just take a look at X10. :-) > > > > What's wrong with X10? I haven't bothered to read through the whole thing, > but I was planning on running it at some point. Any major discrepancies I > should be aware of? I was not thinking of its contents (I also just skimmed through it) but of the way TSR handled it. First, it was "current", then it was in 1200 AC and _then_ they publish a major war set in 1010 AC which ruins the whole X10 thing again. That's what I wanted to point out... By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 06:59:45 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara Hi Bruce! On Do 02.11.1995 around 22:11:48 you wrote in message "[Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara " > > Well, I don't really get this. Do you _follow_ the history or not? As > > far as I can tell, history is something that TSR does not get right very > > often. Besides other inconsitencies. Just take a look at X10. :-) > > > > What's wrong with X10? I haven't bothered to read through the whole thing, > but I was planning on running it at some point. Any major discrepancies I > should be aware of? I was not thinking of its contents (I also just skimmed through it) but of the way TSR handled it. First, it was "current", then it was in 1200 AC and _then_ they publish a major war set in 1010 AC which ruins the whole X10 thing again. That's what I wanted to point out... By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:03:49 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara Hi Domnatrx! On Mo 06.11.1995 around 06:04:53 you wrote in message "[Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara" > That would be nice, but the big problem is that there is so much > information that it would be hard to cover all the basics. I would love to > find out more about Blackmoor. BTW, does anyone here know if the old Judges Guild supplement by Dave Arneson is any good? I think it's called "First Fantasy Campaign" or something like this. I _guess_ it deals with Blackmoor... > The history is there as a guideline on > how the natives of that nation think and act (at least that's one of the > more important aspects for me). True, but even if the players don't know anything about it, I'd like to have a consistent history just for my sake. > Since Joaquin's > Almanac would be the last Mystara almanac (as far as I know about), maybe > after it comes out we could produce a "monthly" version of the almanac. A good idea, although I doubt it's practical side when all the readers contribute without coordination. Someone should be "in charge" of it and decide which events go into the "official" version to ensure some consistency. Volunteers? :-) By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:27:48 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gazeteers Hi! On Mo 06.11.1995 around 17:02:15 someone wrote in message "[Mystara] Gazeteers" > Anyways, I am thinking of > mainly the Ylaurum, Rockhome, Shires, Orcs of Thar, Azca and PC2. PC 2: Top Ballista is a bit to "strange" for my tastes, gnomes flying around in things that look like old World War I airplanes and live in a flying city... But some might like it. Since it is by Carl Sargent I guess the writing is good anyway, but I've not read it entirely. GAZ 8: The Five Shires has a nice view on halfling culture and introduces a new class for halflings (The Master) that is sure to change your view on halflings as a whole. Besides, lots of nice maps of halfling settlements---in the old 1st edition Forgotten Realms style---are included (not the shitty maps that appeared so often in later supplements). And it's written by Ed Greenwood. GAZ 6: Dwarves of Rockhome introduces dwarven clerics and gives a lot of cultural information. Things I don't like are the new dwarven weapons and the strange "clan-related helmets". Also included is a "geomorph" system for designing dwarven cities. It looks workable, though I've never tried. GAZ 2: The Emirates of Ylaruam has lots of background information on culture and religion of the region and a large section on society. The village of Kirkuk is detailed as a starting ground for new PCs and one section provides useful tips for setting up a campaign. GAZ 10: The Orcs of Thar provides a nice system for humanoid player characters. It's a bit "funny" about humanoids, picturing them as very "dumb". The information on the broken lands is expecially interesting when used with GAZ13, since the shadowelves' realm is directly below. > Can > anyone tell me the pluses/minuses to these various books? Any of the > other ones worth it I would especially recomment GAZ 3: The Principalities of Glantri for it's information on schools of magic (Alchemists, Dracologists, Elementalists, Illusionists, Necromancers, Cryptomancers and Witches). Glantri City is detailed on a large map (it's somewhat like venice, all major "streets" are canals) and the secret of Radiance is described. Lots' of politics and "behind the scenes" doings of the nobles are also provided. And of course GAZ 5: The Elves of Alfheim is one of my all-time favourites. It details new spells for elves and provides the best treatment I have read so far for the elven way of life, which my ex-girlfriend interpreted wonderfully; even though she was not very experienced at roleplaying, her elf was surely one of the best-played ones I've come across. GAZ 11: The Republic of Darokin makes for a nice "starting ground" that is more civilised and less gloomy than Karameikos. > Please send all replies > directly to me so as not clog up this list. Thanks. Hmm, I don't think the small traffic here warrents it, besides if more people discuss, you get a better overview. By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:31:18 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] More speciality priests? Hi Bruce! On Mo 06.11.1995 around 21:23:52 you wrote in message "[Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara" > PS. I'm considering posting a few more specialty priests, but I didn't > hear much about the first few. Any comments, suggestions, etc.? Are > people interested, or will I just be wasting space sending them? Post them! Although I did not read through all of them, I still like to archive them anyway. :-) By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: "FORLAK THE SAGE" Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:42:06 GMT+1000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara Well I will see about horoscopes as well. Couldn't be that difficult...well maybe it could :) Ww will have to work out who writes for which area. My person favourite would be either the new Alphatia in the Hollow World, or the Shadow Elves ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 00:51:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara > BTW, does anyone here know if the old Judges Guild supplement by Dave >Arneson is any good? I think it's called "First Fantasy Campaign" or >something like this. I _guess_ it deals with Blackmoor... I really don't know that much about the old Judges Guild stuff. > A good idea, although I doubt it's practical side when all the readers >contribute without coordination. Someone should be "in charge" of it and >decide which events go into the "official" version to ensure some >consistency. Volunteers? :-) If we could do this with coordination and lots of communication, then it should work out okay (fingers crossed). Whenever we get started, I suggest that story ideas should be submitted to the whole group and not just one person. That way, the writer will get many different opinions about what is good or bad. It's almost like a check and balance system. Also this way, we can make sure that events stay consistent with each other as well as with itself. Farther down the line, we'll need a "proofreader" to catch errors. Deciding on a format for the whole thing won't be a problem either--we already have three, soon to be four, models to work from. ------------------------------ From: Glenn Butcher Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 20:44:27 +0800 (WST) Subject: [Mystara] FTP site etc I am willing to provide an ftp site/web access for whatever stuff people want. This is ok with the admin here. Since we are a computer club anyway, with our own stuff, the admin's here are not going to remove it anytime soon. (The admin's are mostly concerned about how to get their mud char's up levels...) Keep up sending those specialty priests as well, Bruce. Amusing sidenote: One of the PC's will be required to go to the city of the immortals. By their description, they are similiar to their deity, Petra. I rolled to see how similiar they are in features to Petra. I rolled 100 on d%. Basically, they look enough like their immortal to be a twin. I'm sure all you nasty and devious DM's and see what will happen when this PC reaches the city.... Glenn, aka Sir Lighthaft, novice immortal of matter - -- ******************************************************************************** Sir Lighthaft, Lord of Paladins Mortal Avatars: knight@tartarus.uwa.edu.au knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Home page: http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight ******************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 08:20:13 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara > From owner-mystara-l@io.com Wed Nov 8 07:47:18 1995 > Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 19:01:19 -0500 (EST) > From: Mistress > Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara > To: mystara-l@io.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > CHARSET=US-ASCII> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com > Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > X-Mdf: Mail for pierpont sent to pierpont@shelley.mitre.org > Content-Length: 923 > > > >I agree with you that a person or set of people that can work closely > >should do a section of each part of the world. Another thing that > >would be good is if the unexplored or as yet unwritten about parts of > >Mystara were mentioned. > >If it goes ahead, which I think it should, I would be glad, and very > >happy to, contribute. The only problem I see is with TSR copyright. > > >One last question. Are the rumours true that TSR have discontinued > >the Mystara line? If so we could basically do as we please, nearly, > >with the writing of another Almanac > > From what I understand, TSR has discontinued the Mystara line > except for Red Steel. Copyright shouldn't be a problem as long as we are > careful. We couldn't transfer whole chapters out of the previous Almanacs > into our own. If we have original material, TSR (hopefully) won't have a > problem with it. Does anyone have any ideas about contacting TSR and > finding out? Yes. Quite simply don't. If the TSR online reps don't hear about it, they try to ignore it. At least thats the way it seems from their posts on rec.games.frp.dnd We really should have to much trouble since it wouldn't violate copyrights, except possibly character copyright which is difficult to defend at best. Trademarks would be the major problem, but properly acknowledging them should take care of that. ___________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 10:41:57 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] FTP site etc Sir Lighthaft wrote: > Amusing sidenote: > One of the PC's will be required to go to the city of the immortals. > By their description, they are similiar to their deity, Petra. I rolled > to see how similiar they are in features to Petra. I rolled 100 on d%. > Basically, they look enough like their immortal to be a twin. I'm sure > all you nasty and devious DM's and see what will happen when this PC reaches > the city.... Kind of similar to something in my campaign. I allowed a Half-Dragon (Half-Gold, Half-Human) in my campaign. He chose to be a paladin of Ixion (according to Council of Wyrms the Half can be any class the humanoid portion could). As he advances he gains 90' Infravision (active like Drow), and Golden skin. So we've got a fairly muscular, long blonde-haired, golden skined paladin with flaming red eyes and a 2HD sword. The church is beginning to wonder just how "in favor" with Ixion he is. Should be amusing when he begins getting the horns, fangs, and claws. ___________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:06:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara > What's wrong with X10? I haven't bothered to read through the whole > thing, but I was planning on running it at some point. Any major > discrepancies I should be aware of? I present for my group the timeline of Mystara as accurately as I can figure it: circa 400-500 AC: X6 Quagmire! and X9 The Savage Coast (based on information in the Champions of Mystara boxed set) * note that these modules are written by the same person and work well as a two-part saga. You can bring your players into the past by ruling that the Immortals who oversee the Yavdlom Divinarchy brought the players back through time when they answered the message in a bottle that starts the adventure. To return home at the end of the second adventure the artifact in Risilvar can be used. circa 1000 AC: Gazetteers and most other modules circa 1150 AC: X9 The Saga of the Shadowlord and X13 Crown of Ancient Glory (based on info in the Gazetter for the Northern Reaches) * these also work well as a two part saga for the same reasons as given above circa 1200 AC: B1, B2, B3, (based on information in the Karameikos gazetter, these should occur in the future) also: X3, X4, X5, X7, X8, X10 (based on the original gazetteer info) * of note, the rulers of realms in X10 differ form those given in the gazetteers, perhaps one of the most compelling reasons to run it in the future. I reconcile the Wrath of the Immortals by using X10 for guidelines on running the Masters initial foray into the East, but his definitive attempt is made in the future Jim Sahlas PS - this is just how I've integrated TSRs various historical inconsistencies, I'd be intersted to hear how others have incorporated these changes. ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 11:47:10 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gazeteers > On Mo 06.11.1995 around 17:02:15 someone wrote in message > "[Mystara] Gazeteers" > > > Anyways, I am thinking of > > mainly the Ylaurum, Rockhome, Shires, Orcs of Thar, Azca and PC2. > > PC 2: Top Ballista is a bit to "strange" for my tastes, gnomes flying > around in things that look like old World War I airplanes and live in a > flying city... But some might like it. Since it is by Carl Sargent I > guess the writing is good anyway, but I've not read it entirely. It is kind of strange, but then gnomes are strange. It does have its good points though, such as the aerial races as PCs and the explination of how PC gnomes can go about building their outlandish creations. Over all it was pretty amusing. > GAZ 8: The Five Shires has a nice view on halfling culture and > introduces a new class for halflings (The Master) that is sure to change > your view on halflings as a whole. Besides, lots of nice maps of halfling > settlements---in the old 1st edition Forgotten Realms style---are included > (not the shitty maps that appeared so often in later supplements). And > it's written by Ed Greenwood. > > GAZ 6: Dwarves of Rockhome introduces dwarven clerics and gives a lot > of cultural information. Things I don't like are the new dwarven weapons > and the strange "clan-related helmets". Also included is a "geomorph" > system for designing dwarven cities. It looks workable, though I've never > tried. I agree with you on both of these, and I've never tried the "geomorph" system either so I can't add much more. > GAZ 10: The Orcs of Thar provides a nice system for humanoid player > characters. It's a bit "funny" about humanoids, picturing them as very > "dumb". The information on the broken lands is expecially interesting when > used with GAZ13, since the shadowelves' realm is directly below. I found this to be one of the better Gazeteers. It added alot of flavor to the humanoids rather than just having orcs and goblins it gives several tribes, there common dress and prefered weapons etc, as well as rules for using them as PCs.The portrayal of the humanoids as dumb kind of reminded me of Warhammer Orks, but then I guess I should say Warhammer Orks remind me of the Gazeteer since it came first. > > Can > > anyone tell me the pluses/minuses to these various books? Any of the > > other ones worth it > Glantri definately, and Darokin is good as well. I'd also recommend Dawn of the Emperors which details Thyatis and Alphatia (hard to discuss one without the other) and their interactions, why they hate each other, each countries version of history (and the real version, which isn't either of the first two), etc. _________________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 11:57:16 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara > > circa 400-500 AC: X6 Quagmire! and X9 The Savage Coast (based on > information in the Champions of Mystara boxed set) Don't have X9 yet so I can't say, but this sounds about right for X6. If X9 mentions the lizard people you might want to move it forward a bit, after Yavdlom is destroyed by the lizardmen(I believe this is mentioned somewhere in Champions of Mystara). circa 950 AC: X2 Castle Amber (this is in the module) > circa 1000 AC: Gazetteers and most other modules I'd include X4, X5, and X10 in the Wrath of the Immortals timeline, X4 and X5 don't have anything time specific (it just must be before the Master attacks Darokin for the first time). The only problem is if the PCs manage to destroy the Master during X5, if you've read any of the Red Steel material the Master lives through Wrath of the Immortals and is still in control of Hule. Perhaps Thanatos gave him another chance? circa 1015 AC: Mark of Amber (also in the module) ___________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:14:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithian Book > Statues were covered under the Control Statue "spell". Guess I missed that. I was looking for a seperate heading. > > > 4)Some monster is mentioned in descriptiuon yet no stats are given. Any > > > info? > > What's it called? Not sure-don't have the book on me. I think it's the younger chimers(crystalsomethings?) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:07:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, D.J. Sahlas wrote: > I present for my group the timeline of Mystara as accurately as I > can figure it: > > circa 400-500 AC: X6 Quagmire! and X9 The Savage Coast (based on > information in the Champions of Mystara boxed set) > circa 1000 AC: Gazetteers and most other modules > circa 1150 AC: X9 The Saga of the Shadowlord and X13 Crown of > Ancient Glory (based on info in the Gazetter for the Northern Reaches) > circa 1200 AC: B1, B2, B3, (based on information in the > Karameikos gazetter, these should occur in the future) > also: X3, X4, X5, X7, X8, X10 (based on the original gazetteer > info) What about the Blackmoor modules? TSR has given two different interpratations of when Blackmoor started it's rise to prominence, though they both agree it was 1000 yrs before the destruction of Blackmoor. BTW does anyone know where I can find out more about Blackmoor than the original 3 modules.(I missed DA4) ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 15:36:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] FTP site etc >I am willing to provide an ftp site/web access for whatever stuff people want. >This is ok with the admin here. Since we are a computer club anyway, with >our own stuff, the admin's here are not going to remove it anytime soon. (The >admin's are mostly concerned about how to get their mud char's up levels...) That's great--thank you. One thing about Mystara is the fact that it is a "living" place--with characters who grow old, events that affect the world around it and with lasting effects, etc. With TSR bringing their Mystara line to a close, I don't want Mystara's colorful history to close either. And if we can get this idea to work, and somehow manage it where people can log on and download recent events, Mystara will continue to be a "living" place. - --Ron & Laura ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #15 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #16 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Friday, 10 November 1995 Volume 01 : Number 016 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mistress Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 15:44:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara >Yes. Quite simply don't. If the TSR online reps ... You're right, of course. I just wanted to know what TSR's policy on such matters are. - --Ron ------------------------------ From: AEVF56A@prodigy.com (MR SHELBY J MICHLIN) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 19:51:01 EST Subject: [Mystara] Blackmoor from Judges Guild A recent post requested info on this. Another post requested Blackmoor info other than the DA series. I have a copy of Arneson's First Fantasy Campaign, published by JG. As I think I mentioned in an early post, Arneson states that he is grateful to JG for giving him the opportunity to publish. JG set it adjacent to their campaign world. Arneson apparently used a boardgame's map for the area outside his main campaign, so he didn't seem to mind the transplant. It has been conjectured that he was still rather upset with Gygax, evidence the power-hungry arch-villain "the Egg of Coot." (E.G.G., E. Gary Gygax is a coot.) Blackmoor seems to appear in the World of Greyhawk as a reflection of Gygax's campaign, but most likely refers to Arneson's game, as the original D&D supplement "Blackmoor" describes the Temple of the Frog, and is about as "official" as you can get. As for a review, FFC is very poorly organized, has numerous typos, is *extremely* sketchy (no surprise since it is in essence simply a transcription of his notes), and is somewhat incompatible with just about any rules set you can come up with. Personally, I love it. I love the opportunity for a glimpse at the earliest example of fantasy role- playing ever available. I love the atmosphere, the "sense of wonder" (aargh, I quoted Forry Ackerman!) Grab it if you ever come across a copy. Note, the enclosed map is extremely close to the one published in the DA series, although it is in standard JG format (on "parchment," printed in brown ink, with hexes, and includes a separate player's copy with little detail so the players must fill it in as they explore). It's less polished than the TSR version released as the DA series, and that's both good and bad...DA was a bit too cold, too commercial; especially in comparison to this! A review of the Blackmoor supplement to original D&D? I page between this old edition and the DA version, and there are elements of both I'll use when my grand time-travel adventure comes to pass. Same comment regarding polish and nostalgia as above. Shelby ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:58:52 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > > > > circa 400-500 AC: X6 Quagmire! and X9 The Savage Coast (based on > > information in the Champions of Mystara boxed set) > > circa 950 AC: X2 Castle Amber (this is in the module) > > > circa 1000 AC: Gazetteers and most other modules > > I'd include X4, X5, and X10 in the Wrath of the Immortals timeline, X4 and X5 > don't have anything time specific (it just must be before the Master > attacks Darokin for the first time). The only problem is if the PCs > manage to destroy the Master during X5, if you've read any of the Red > Steel material the Master lives through Wrath of the Immortals and is > still in control of Hule. Perhaps Thanatos gave him another chance? Well, the title The Master doesn't have to be person-specific. In fact, in my campaign it would pretty well have to be title for the religious leader, instead of a specific person. Thanatos isn't about to grant any more chances to The Master we see in X4,X5 and X10 - my players killed him twice in X5 (including his avatar), and killed him again in X10 when we ran that. I'd say that would be the end of Thanatos'es patience. That doesn't mean that the PC's have escaped the tender mercies of Thatnatos'es displeasure, quite the contrary. (Hi, Bjarte ! I know you're on this list tooo, so I won't go into too much detail.) Suffice it to say that Thanatos'es three mightiest servants are mobilizing, form among the ranks of the living, the dead, and those that never were either. The never-borne are particulaily horrid creatures, by the way. For the money, I'd say your timeline seems to fit retroactively - but when we played them, we ran Quagmire/Savage coast in 997-1000 AC. > circa 1015 AC: Mark of Amber (also in the module) > ___________________ > > |] |] > |]ruce | ierpont > ------------------------------ From: Glenn Butcher Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:07:14 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] FTP site etc > > That's great--thank you. One thing about Mystara is the fact that > it is a "living" place--with characters who grow old, events that affect > the world around it and with lasting effects, etc. With TSR bringing their > Mystara line to a close, I don't want Mystara's colorful history to close > either. And if we can get this idea to work, and somehow manage it where > people can log on and download recent events, Mystara will continue to be a > "living" place. > > --Ron & Laura > Well, how shall we organize it? I am prepared to htmlize stuff, or whatever. Perhaps a page with "rumours" "recent events" etc on it? If anybody writes anything of that nature, or posts it to the list, I will place it here. Glenn - -- ******************************************************************************** Sir Lighthaft, Lord of Paladins Mortal Avatars: knight@tartarus.uwa.edu.au knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Home page: http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight ******************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 01:16:14 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Timelines... While we are on the issue of modules and how they fit into people's campaigns, I thought I'd share a couple of my own. X3- One of my all time favorite modules. Currently, I am running this in 1004AC. I have transplanted it to Darokin- in Port Tenobar. I replaced the ethengarians with Sindhi and I have replaced the dwarves being thrown out with halflings and Atruaghin. The location is fairly plausible, as it is situated in the borderlands, outside of Darokin's direct control. Basically, Xanathon(now a high priest of Thanatos) has cursed the Magistrate and seeks(via the outrageous commandments) to force the Darokin government to either reabsorb the borderland territory or, preferably, rename Draco as Magistrate. I have also worked in the Kirtanta(assassins from the Nightrage-series of modules.) B1-9- I have had no problems running these modules as presented in the collection of the same name, set before WOtI. A couple of changes I have made- Palace of the Silver Princess(B?)- The Rahib is alive and is a cleric of Thanatos- a major villain in my campaign. Leads the adventurers to X3, incidentally. B2- I have transposed the keep on the borderlands to a small keep north of Threshold and south of this little town in Darokin (can't recall the name offhand), so it is truly a keep on the borderlands. This keep was created in an adventure long before the gazetteers, and it seemed well suited for this adventure. Evenutally, a road will be built between the two nations, and this keep will be a major outpost. Offhand, those are the only adaptations I can recall, but with a little bit of work, all of the old modules can fit into any timeline, I feel. ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:29:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor from Judges Guild > A recent post requested info on this. Another post requested Blackmoor > info other than the DA series. I have a copy of Arneson's First Fantasy > Campaign, published by JG. Where can I find this-hobby store or book store or where? > It has been > conjectured that he was still rather upset with Gygax, evidence the > power-hungry arch-villain "the Egg of Coot." (E.G.G., E. Gary Gygax is > a coot.) I've heard this one too, but wasn't Gygax still head of TSR at the time of the DA series? I doubt he would allow it, unless he was self-deprecating. > It's less polished than the TSR version released as the DA series, and > that's both good and bad...DA was a bit too cold, too commercial; > especially in comparison to this! I think the DA books were not that commercial(maybe in comparison, though). They were pretty free-form and fun, unlike newer TSR junk(shudder) Now I know what the DA series stands for! Boy am I dumb.(though I just finished my stat midterm in approx 20 minutes(1st of a class of around 80!)-doesn't mean I did good though, but keeping my hopes up.) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:39:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timelines... > While we are on the issue of modules and how they fit into people's > campaigns, I thought I'd share a couple of my own. Good idea. I loved B4 so much I put it in the Hollow World and am trying to iron out the differences. The three cults-The Brotherhood of Rathanos -Red/Yellow Masks w/ flame design Torches/clubs Male Fighters,Clerics of Rathanos Sun Tatoo on Palm The Magi of Pflarr - Masks of jackal Staves Any Mage,Cleric of Pflarr Pflarr's symbol on shoulder The Artisans of Kagyar - Fancily Decorated Masks (other suggestions, please) Daggers(as tools/weapons) (hammer as tool only) Chisel tatoo on Forearm Any thief,Cleric of Kagyar No helm of telepathy for the one leader Nithian Names Cyncideans harder to heal due to Preservation Spell Cults do not get along as well(-5 to reaction?) due to said spell Zargon is unchanged-still ancient creature recently unearthged and corrupting Cyncidea-below Nithian badlans(?) So far I've done the top three tiers(and a little of the rest) and this is what I came up with. Any other suggestions wanted. ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 23:42:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Web Site Concerning the web page... I (Laura) am already working on and improving the pathetic astrological section of the Almanacs. As soon as I get some stuff ready, I'll post them. Question: How often would player characters like their horoscopes? I can do anything from yearly (rather boring, don't you think) to monthly (weekly is just a bit too much, but I may consider bimonthly if there is demand). Please respond and let me know what you think. As for the Almanac entries (this is Ron talking now :), how about we use the format in the Poor Wizard's Almanac -- Current Events. We could post entries one game month at a time and try to have new entries every real time month. We could also include weather forecasts (any takers? ooooh, pick me! pick me!), holidays, blah, blah. (Back to Laura) I realize that since very few (if any) of us are following the actual history to the letter, so there is a good possibility that the entries made by some people to the almanac may not apply or may even totally contrast to the histories of individual games. Scenario: If I write up a history concerning Duke (or King) Stephen and someone else contributes a completely different entry of the same person, who is to say which is better or whether one should be posted instead of the other? So, I say, (are ya ready, folks?) Let's loosen up. I think that anyone should write about whatever person or places that interest them instead of delegating certain items to certain people. Yeah, there will be conflicting storylines. Yeah, some of the stuff will be ingenious while others might be crap. Yeah, it might even be a little bit confusing. But hey, It will be fun!!! Pros: 1) we can all share our views and game histories 2) we will have more options to choose from in our own campaigns 3) it will eliminate the possibility that one or two people do a really lousy job of their assigned segments. ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:55:07 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara > > Steel material the Master lives through Wrath of the Immortals and is > > still in control of Hule. Perhaps Thanatos gave him another chance? > Well, the title The Master doesn't have to be person-specific. In fact, > in my campaign it would pretty well have to be title for the religious > leader, instead of a specific person. Thats what I have allways thought too. But to my question: I thought the Huleans worshipped Loki (Bosdogan (the spelling is wrong, but I seem to have the letter s broken in my computer :) sorry) At least it is said so in WotI and maybe in the almanacs too... So it is said in some of those modules that The Master worshipped Thanatos? Quite an interesting error if so... - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: "FORLAK THE SAGE" Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:35:41 GMT+1000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Web Site Laura's idea seems like the best way to deal with the conflicting. good-bad part, and it allows more freedom of choice in what a person does or does not use... Have already started my contribution... ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 00:53:11 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timelines... On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > While we are on the issue of modules and how they fit into people's > > campaigns, I thought I'd share a couple of my own. > > Good idea. I loved B4 so much I put it in the Hollow World and am trying > to iron out the differences. > Zargon is unchanged-still ancient creature recently unearthged and > corrupting Cyncidea-below Nithian badlans(?) > > > So far I've done the top three tiers(and a little of the rest) and this is > what I came up with. Any other suggestions wanted. > Perhaps Zargon is one of the burrowers of Thanatos? ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 02:02:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR and History of Mystara On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Anias Pasi wrote: > > > Steel material the Master lives through Wrath of the Immortals and is > > > still in control of Hule. Perhaps Thanatos gave him another chance? > > Well, the title The Master doesn't have to be person-specific. In fact, > > in my campaign it would pretty well have to be title for the religious > > leader, instead of a specific person. > Thats what I have allways thought too. > But to my question: > > I thought the Huleans worshipped Loki (Bosdogan (the spelling is wrong, > but I seem to have the letter s broken in my computer :) sorry) At > least it is said so in WotI and maybe in the almanacs too... > So it is said in some of those modules that The Master worshipped > Thanatos? Quite an interesting error if so... Yes, but that error belongs to the WotI and the almanacs, not to the modules. Loki is not a deathgod, in any of his aspects - he's the cruel trickster, too clever for his own good. Thanatos IS death. The huleans as detailed in the modules worship a cruel deathgod with demonic aspects- and the master has an artefact called 'The soul gem of Thanatos' that he uses to prolong his own life. Guess who that adds up to worship of ? Although, the information in X4/5 led me to believe it would be someone with a bit more vigorously demonic/evil intent, like Alphaks, Demogorgon or Orcus they'd worship - but on second though it was clear to me that the establishment of a whole country of fanatic killers whould be aestethically pleasing to Thanatos. ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 04:14:29 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithian Book On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > I have several questions with obvious errors in the Nithian sourcebook > for the Hollow World. I sent some of these questions to TSR a few months > back, but got no reply to most of the Qs. So,if anyone can help, thanks. > 1)There is no armor table in the back cover. What are the AC values of > the new armors described in the book? This is information from "The Voyage of the Princess Ark" in Dragon magazine #182: Armlet, Anklet, Bracelet(all in terms of pairs)- provide AC as per the partial armor skill. Textile armor, Leather harness, leather helm- AC +1, in addition to bonuses due to Partial Armor skill. Breast plate- +1AC and partial armor w/out harness; +2 AC and partial armor w/harness. Battle helm- +2AC and partial armor Nithian shield- +1AC (also, due to light construction, destroyed in any round when char. takes 5 pts dmg from one attack, or 10 pts from combination of attacks.) Nithian scale armor- Base AC7, can use with helm and shield Nithian plate armor- base AC5, can use with helm and shield. Also, armlets/anklets/bracelets can be used with leather harness or breat plate, but do not affect armor class for for combinations of armor with AC6 or better. Cannot use bracer's skill with a shield, and total bonuses from said skill cannot exceed +4 to AC. > 5)What would happen if you had Weapon Profencies and Nithian Weapons > skill on the same weapon? What if you had skilled in a khopesh sword(or any > other new weapon with WP)? As to this question, I quote: "The author did not originally design Nithian weapons to be used with the full Weapon Mastery rules. The weapon chart inside the product's cover should be treated as a simpler alternative to the Weapon Mastery rules." Provided in the article is a table for weapon mastery rules for Nithian weapons, which I can provide if wanted, as well as prices and encumbrances for them and the armor types. Hope this helps out! ------------------------------ From: urklore@tiac.net (Urklore the Iron) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:21:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Re: [Mystara] Web Site COOL! So where is the web page again? I can't wait to start added to it! ************************************************************************ * Bill Schwartz, Billcutis of Borg, Iceman Incarnate, Internet Lord * * Galaxy Ranger (With Series-5 Brain Implant and Bio-Defenses) * * Leader of ANIME ADVENTURERS, Finisher of the World of XEEN * * Level 7.5 DM, Keeper of the Netdisks, Keeper of 78 RPG Systems * * Slave to the all powerful JOLT, Forever Knight Vampire Fledgling * * "Die Autobots!!", "Clearly I can not choose the wine in front of me" * * "It musst give usss our preciousss!", "Warp 7.....Engage!." * * "Orbots Unite!", "Blood and Souls for my Lord Arioch!" * ************************************************************************ ------------------------------ From: Glenn Butcher Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 12:44:30 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Re: [Mystara] Web Site > > COOL! So where is the web page again? I can't wait to start added to it! > Mail me the files you want placed on it, and I'll place them there. When somebody actually sends me some, I'll tell the list about it. Until, then, well I *do* have exams. The address will be accessable from my home page (which also has some interesting roleplaying stuff anyway :) Glenn - -- ******************************************************************************** Sir Lighthaft, Lord of Paladins Mortal Avatars: knight@tartarus.uwa.edu.au knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Home page: http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight ******************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Peter Quizert Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:38:36 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Are You Preapred? The Problem: Most companies require a pre-employment drug test. If you are seeking employment, on probation, or in the military, you will have to take a drug test. Another Problem: Eating the wrong breakfast, or using certain over-the- counter pain relievers will falsely identify you as a drug user. The Real Problem: Public and private employers spend 1.2 billion dollars each year (1992 figures) on drug tests that are unreliable and inaccurate. Even hard working employees that do not use drugs are at risk. The Solution: ================================ Know the Facts. Know what foods and over the counter medicines are routinely mistaken for common illegal drugs. Simply eating a poppy seed bagel before a drug test can identify you as an opiate user. Know how long different illicit drugs can be detected in your system. Marijuana can be detected for more than a month if nothing is done to conceal its use. Know the different types of drug tests, especially the ones you are likely to face. GC/MS tests are almost impossible to beat, but are seldom used. The more common EMIT test is much easier to fool -- if you know how. Be Prepared! Know when the test is coming. Do not use illicit drugs, or ingest cross-reactive substances before the test. Clean your system of drug metabolites and cross-reactive substances. Drink plenty of water and urinate as often as possible before the test. Do NOT give them your first urine of the day! Use Clean 'n Clear. Clean 'n Clear is a three phase system designed to Clean out your body, so you will give Clear urine and Clear the test. The unique Clean 'n Clear Package includes: 1. Simple step-by-step instructions 2. All natural blood purifiers 3. All natural urine flow stimulators 4. Coloring vitamins to put 'yellow' back in your clear urine 5. Information you need about drug testing 6. A guarantee! This is not a simplistic "tea" or golden seal approach to the problem! This amazing three phase system is guaranteed! And not just guaranteed ... We are so sure our unique three phase system will work for you that we are including a DOUBLE YOUR MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!!! Everyone has a friend who needs this information! =================================================================== -------------------------------- P R I N T and S A V E ! ! -------------------------------- Be prepared. Stop worrying now! You will pass. We guarantee it!! Order your guaranteed Clean 'n Clear package now by sending $19.95 along with your name and address to: Clean 'n Clear 2809 East Hamilton Av #121B Eau Claire, WI 54701 Most companies require pre-employment drug screens. You may only have a few days notice of a drug test. Be Prepared. Order Now! =================================================================== Sorry, Clean 'n Clear is not legal in Texas, and will NOT be mailed to Texas addresses. Distributor inquires welcome. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #16 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #17 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Monday, 13 November 1995 Volume 01 : Number 017 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Quizert Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:38:15 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Are You Preapred? The Problem: Most companies require a pre-employment drug test. If you are seeking employment, on probation, or in the military, you will have to take a drug test. Another Problem: Eating the wrong breakfast, or using certain over-the- counter pain relievers will falsely identify you as a drug user. The Real Problem: Public and private employers spend 1.2 billion dollars each year (1992 figures) on drug tests that are unreliable and inaccurate. Even hard working employees that do not use drugs are at risk. The Solution: ================================ Know the Facts. Know what foods and over the counter medicines are routinely mistaken for common illegal drugs. Simply eating a poppy seed bagel before a drug test can identify you as an opiate user. Know how long different illicit drugs can be detected in your system. Marijuana can be detected for more than a month if nothing is done to conceal its use. Know the different types of drug tests, especially the ones you are likely to face. GC/MS tests are almost impossible to beat, but are seldom used. The more common EMIT test is much easier to fool -- if you know how. Be Prepared! Know when the test is coming. Do not use illicit drugs, or ingest cross-reactive substances before the test. Clean your system of drug metabolites and cross-reactive substances. Drink plenty of water and urinate as often as possible before the test. Do NOT give them your first urine of the day! Use Clean 'n Clear. Clean 'n Clear is a three phase system designed to Clean out your body, so you will give Clear urine and Clear the test. The unique Clean 'n Clear Package includes: 1. Simple step-by-step instructions 2. All natural blood purifiers 3. All natural urine flow stimulators 4. Coloring vitamins to put 'yellow' back in your clear urine 5. Information you need about drug testing 6. A guarantee! This is not a simplistic "tea" or golden seal approach to the problem! This amazing three phase system is guaranteed! And not just guaranteed ... We are so sure our unique three phase system will work for you that we are including a DOUBLE YOUR MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!!! Everyone has a friend who needs this information! =================================================================== -------------------------------- P R I N T and S A V E ! ! -------------------------------- Be prepared. Stop worrying now! You will pass. We guarantee it!! Order your guaranteed Clean 'n Clear package now by sending $19.95 along with your name and address to: Clean 'n Clear 2809 East Hamilton Av #121B Eau Claire, WI 54701 Most companies require pre-employment drug screens. You may only have a few days notice of a drug test. Be Prepared. Order Now! =================================================================== Sorry, Clean 'n Clear is not legal in Texas, and will NOT be mailed to Texas addresses. Distributor inquires welcome. ------------------------------ From: Peter Quizert Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:25:22 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Are You Preapred? The Problem: Most companies require a pre-employment drug test. If you are seeking employment, on probation, or in the military, you will have to take a drug test. Another Problem: Eating the wrong breakfast, or using certain over-the- counter pain relievers will falsely identify you as a drug user. The Real Problem: Public and private employers spend 1.2 billion dollars each year (1992 figures) on drug tests that are unreliable and inaccurate. Even hard working employees that do not use drugs are at risk. The Solution: ================================ Know the Facts. Know what foods and over the counter medicines are routinely mistaken for common illegal drugs. Simply eating a poppy seed bagel before a drug test can identify you as an opiate user. Know how long different illicit drugs can be detected in your system. Marijuana can be detected for more than a month if nothing is done to conceal its use. Know the different types of drug tests, especially the ones you are likely to face. GC/MS tests are almost impossible to beat, but are seldom used. The more common EMIT test is much easier to fool -- if you know how. Be Prepared! Know when the test is coming. Do not use illicit drugs, or ingest cross-reactive substances before the test. Clean your system of drug metabolites and cross-reactive substances. Drink plenty of water and urinate as often as possible before the test. Do NOT give them your first urine of the day! Use Clean 'n Clear. Clean 'n Clear is a three phase system designed to Clean out your body, so you will give Clear urine and Clear the test. The unique Clean 'n Clear Package includes: 1. Simple step-by-step instructions 2. All natural blood purifiers 3. All natural urine flow stimulators 4. Coloring vitamins to put 'yellow' back in your clear urine 5. Information you need about drug testing 6. A guarantee! This is not a simplistic "tea" or golden seal approach to the problem! This amazing three phase system is guaranteed! And not just guaranteed ... We are so sure our unique three phase system will work for you that we are including a DOUBLE YOUR MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!!! Everyone has a friend who needs this information! =================================================================== -------------------------------- P R I N T and S A V E ! ! -------------------------------- Be prepared. Stop worrying now! You will pass. We guarantee it!! Order your guaranteed Clean 'n Clear package now by sending $19.95 along with your name and address to: Clean 'n Clear 2809 East Hamilton Av #121D Eau Claire, WI 54701 Most companies require pre-employment drug screens. You may only have a few days notice of a drug test. Be Prepared. Order Now! =================================================================== Sorry, Clean 'n Clear is not legal in Texas, and will NOT be mailed to Texas addresses. Distributor inquires welcome. ------------------------------ From: AEVF56A@prodigy.com (MR SHELBY J MICHLIN) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 12:41:56 EST Subject: Fwd: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor from Judges Guild > Subject: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor from Judges Guild > Where can I find this-hobby store or book store or where? Hobby store, book stores don't stock old out-of-print JG stuff. Otherwise, conventions and online. > > It has been > > conjectured that he was still rather upset with Gygax, evidence the > > power-hungry arch-villain "the Egg of Coot." (E.G.G., E. Gary Gygax is > > a coot.) > I've heard this one too, but wasn't Gygax still head of TSR at the time > of the DA series? No, I believe he was gone at this time. If I'm wrong, sorry. > I think the DA books were not that commercial(maybe in comparison, > though). They were pretty free-form and fun, unlike newer TSR > junk(shudder) Agree on the newer stuff, but yes, I meant in comparison to the DA releases. Shelby ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 15:48:06 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mystara] Administrative Details Your friendly admin here, Detail One I am sure you will all be happy to hear that the moron who spammed this list (plus many others) with the "Are you Prepared?" ad has lost his net access through his provider (Primenet). Detail Two I have been having problems with the following addresses... crjoseph@wnc.com jsmill@imap.asu.edu Every time someone sends a posting to the list I get a letter from the mailer daemon that these addresses cannot be reached. And that's a lot of mail. So, if one of the above is you, or you recognize them, please send me personal email. If I hear nothing in a week or so, I'll be removing them from the list. Thank you for your time. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:04:17 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Blackmoor, TSR and Gygax Hi! On Do 09.11.1995 around 16:29:54 someone wrote in message "[Mystara] Blackmoor from Judges Guild" > > It has been > > conjectured that he was still rather upset with Gygax, evidence the > > power-hungry arch-villain "the Egg of Coot." (E.G.G., E. Gary Gygax is > > a coot.) > > I've heard this one too, but wasn't Gygax still head of TSR at the time > of the DA series? I doubt he would allow it, unless he was self-deprecating. Actually no. I don't know about the exact date when he was "kicked out" but it was soon after the initial publication of Oriental Adventures, Unearthed Arcana and T1-4, all of which were published in 1985. I guess that TSR attempted to get back "another old-timer" when they offered Arneson to publish his Blackmoor stuff in 1986. And hey, I think that was a good move after all, because that way many of us "youngsters" who only started playing in 1984-85 were able to enjoy this classic. By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:15:49 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Possible Contribution: Cult of Thanatos Hi there! Reading that "The Master" worships Thanatos made me think about my own D&D campaign again. The major foe in this campaign is a group I termed "Cult of Thanatos" and I've already developed to some degree (well, enough for my current players at least). The cult was/will be the continual plot that "spawns" all the other adventures the players get into. The Cult is currently based mainly in Karameikos and deals with the Iron Ring (although they dupe them of course) and other "evil" forces. If there is interest I could develop the current Cult to a more complete organization, with stats for leaders, goals, bases of operation, recommended adventures, integration of published adventures, etc. Tell me if you'd like to see more of it. _ - --- By(T)e... _ // "C++ is already too large and complicated..." --- - --- Peter... \X/\miga - "Gegen den Strom!" -- ANSI-X3J16/ISO-WG21 --- e-mail: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net iam: GCS/O d- s:+ a-- C++(++++) UB P? L E- W N++ K? w-- O- M V PS PE- Y+ PGP+ t+ 5- X? R+ tv- b++ DI? D+ G e h! r-- y+ ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 03:45:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Possible Contribution: Cult of Thanatos > Tell me if you'd like to see more of it. Yes, that would be great! We would love to see more of the nasty surprises and tricks that other DMs use on their players . ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 16:09:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Web Site On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, Mistress wrote: I am responding a bit late to a bunch of these. > Concerning the web page... > > I (Laura) am already working on and improving the pathetic astrological > section of the Almanacs. As soon as I get some stuff ready, I'll post > them. Question: How often would player characters like their horoscopes? I > can do anything from yearly (rather boring, don't you think) to monthly > (weekly is just a bit too much, but I may consider bimonthly if there is > demand). Please respond and let me know what you think. I have never used the horoscopes, but this is mostly due to playing with a group who wouldn't much care. In the future, though, I'll will probably give it a try. I would love to see a monthly Mystara horoscope. It's things like this why I started the list. If your willing to write it, I, plus many others I'm sure, am willing to read it. > (Back to Laura) I realize that since very few (if any) of us are following > the actual history to the letter, so there is a good possibility that the > entries made by some people to the almanac may not apply or may even > totally contrast to the histories of individual games. > Scenario: If I write up a history concerning Duke (or King) Stephen and > someone else contributes a completely different entry of the same person, > who is to say which is better or whether one should be posted instead of > the other? So, I say, (are ya ready, folks?) Let's loosen up. I think > that anyone should write about whatever person or places that interest them > instead of delegating certain items to certain people. Yeah, there will be > conflicting storylines. Yeah, some of the stuff will be ingenious while > others might be crap. Yeah, it might even be a little bit confusing. But > hey, It will be fun!!! Pros: 1) we can all share our views and game > histories 2) we will have more options to choose from in our own campaigns > 3) it will eliminate the possibility that one or two people do a really > lousy job of their assigned segments. I agree with the above. The only thing I would add is that if a person submits something that has a basis on non-official stuff, they should include a summary of the chanages they made. For example, if someone submits an entry on Grand Duke Justin Karameikos, it would be nice if they explained why Stephan is out of the picture. Or, if they submit an entry on Alphatia-controlled Ylaruam, they should explain how this situation arose. With this, we get maximum variety with minimal confusion. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 19:37:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timelines... On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > > > While we are on the issue of modules and how they fit into people's > > > campaigns, I thought I'd share a couple of my own. > > > > Good idea. I loved B4 so much I put it in the Hollow World and am trying > > to iron out the differences. > > Zargon is unchanged-still ancient creature recently unearthged and > > corrupting Cyncidea-below Nithian badlans(?) > Perhaps Zargon is one of the burrowers of Thanatos? That's a neat idea-and he was unearthed and has been playing mind games(burrower insanity-effect) with the residents of the lost city, reducing them from slightly isolated, crazed people to the dreamworld folk the Cyncideans of B4 are. So the effect would've been more recent and in my opinion more believable. But if the lost city was transferred from the Outer World how did Burrowers get in? They were already paralysed. Also, Zargon would be a bit weak for a burrower, I'd think. Still, it might work. I haven't changed much else yet-eliminated some magic items(invis, al change, etc) instead of replacing. Also, I've put in rough room descriptions for the bottom tiers of the pyramid, but they're more general than Nithia-specific. The werefoxes have become wererats(how would werefoxes' charm change in HW?) It would be a good HW adventure for clerics, as turn is useless normally in HW. But in the dark areas it's fine. And this is a rare dark area. Maybe the worshippers of Thanatos could move in if the city is unearthed by the PCs.(more trouble/continued plot) Well,that's what I've got so far. Will Any more suggestions? ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 08:23:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Web Site Well, it looks like we'll soon be starting to contribute our current events. I have a couple (more) suggestions: 1 - we need to decide on a year with which to begin. This may present a problem because no doubt many people are campaigning in different game times. There are two possibilities: i) start with 1014, the year after the soon-to-be-released newest almanac ii) don't specify the year at all, simply cycle through the months, and each group can apply the happenings to whichever year they see fit. In addition, if some groups don't wish to include certain happenings in their own campaign world, they can always return to them the following game year. 2 - My second suggestion is to write in our contributions in the form of rumours. This way, virtually everything could be used (as, of course, rumours may not always be correct, or perhaps are only partially correct). The contributions could take the form of the "What Everyone Knows" sections of some of the gazetteers (example: "A caravan gaurd with Ahiktos the merchant states that when they left Karameikos ...") Well, I'm anxious to get started! Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: Wildmule@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:29:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Web Site Hi, all! Ann Dupuis, here! I've been away from the list for a while -- just had time to download all the messages since Nov. 1. I must admit, I read some of the "Web Site" postings with a bit of alarm. This whole TSR/copyright issue has received a lot of attention on the Internet -- which unfortunately has included the propogation of a lot of ideas and assumptions about copyrights, trademarks, and "electronic publishing" which just aren't so. Now, before you all brand me as an "anti-free-writing" heretic, hear me out -- there is a way for us to have a Mystara web site legally, and (probably) with TSR's blessings. But simply posting stuff to a web site and not telling TSR about it isn't the way to do it. As author, editor, and now publisher, it's my business to keep up to date on copyright and trademark laws -- at least to the extent that publishers must understand them (that means more understanding than the average person on the street, and a lot less understanding than an "Intellectual Properties" lawyer). Here are some points as they apply to Mystara and "fan" efforts to keep the world alive: Mystara -- as a world, with characters, nations, histories, etc. - -- is a fictional setting. As such, it is protected under copy- right laws; not just the actual words that have seen print so far (and there are a *lot* of those!), but the setting as a complete whole. This means that any adventure and other supplementary material obviously set in this fictional world (referring to the nations, characters, monsters, etc. as they're described in TSR's publications) qualifies as a "derivative work." "Derivative works" cannot legally be published without the permission of the original copyright holder (TSR, in Mystara's case). Making files available via electronic means constitutes "electronic publishing" and therefore is subject to all the laws, etc. any publishing concern are subject to. So -- simply posting files about the Mystara world (continuing the Almanacs, etc.) to a web site is a violation of the copyright laws of the United States, and also (I'm pretty sure) of any country that follows the Berne Convention. The fact that after "Joshuan's Almanac" hits the stores next month no future Mystara (i.e. Known World) products are planned doesn't affect the fact that the original Mystara materials are protected under copyright for 75 years from the date of publication. (As they are "works for hire," and the copyrights are held by a corporation rather than an individual, the authors' lifetimes don't figure in here.) In addition to general copyright protection, there are specific terms involving Mystara that are protected under trademark law. These include (but are not limited to) the following: AD&D(r) ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS(r) ADVANCED D&D(r) BLACKMOOR(r) CREATURE CRUCIBLE(tm) D&D(r) DM(tm) DUNGEON MASTER(r) DUNGEONS & DRAGONS(r) HOLLOW WORLD(r) KARAMEIKOS(tm) MYSTARA(tm) RED STEEL(tm) TSR(tm) (note: The above trademarks statuses are as of August, 1994; some (tm)s may have since been registered) Trademark law is a bit stickier than copyright law, and I don't feel qualified to comment on it -- except briefly, and with the disclaimer that I may very well be wrong about the following: It's perfectly legal to *refer to* a trademark, as in the following sentence: The MYSTARA(r) setting is a fictional world developed for role-playing with the DUNGEONS & DRAGONS(r) game. In the above example, each trademark is (as is proper and legal) used as an *adjective* (with the nouns "setting" and "game"). The work in which the above sentence appears should also have the notice: MYSTARA(r) and DUNGEONS & DRAGONS (r) are registered trademarks of TSR, Inc. However, invoking trademarked terms in a piece in a way that promotes that piece as being connected to the properties protected by those trademarks is a violation of trademark law. (This is true whether or not any money actually changes hands, as in a sale or fee charged.) Thus, as publisher, I can publish a role-playing supplement with: "Usable With Any Role-Playing Game System" written in big letters all over it, while it would be illegal (and immoral!) for me to publish a role-playing supplement with: "Suitable for Use with the GURPS(r) game" emblazoned in big letters on the cover (or in little letters inside!) unless I'd first received a license to do so from Steve Jackson Games. And, as I mentioned before, it wouldn't matter if I were selling the above "suitable for use with the GURPS(r) game" product or giving it away -- it would still violate Steve Jackson Games' trademark. So, we've established that many of the Mystara-related projects proposed by this list would potentially violate copyright laws. (If anyone thinks I'm wrong about this, feel free to e-mail me directly -- I'd rather not clutter up this list with the same sort of endless hashing and re-hashing of false information I've seen on Usenet.) The next step is to proceed to do what's necessary for those projects to go forward -- legally -- and that's to get a license from TSR. (The alternative -- to totally strip out all mention of TSR's intellectual properties -- wouldn't do much to keep Mystara alive. And the other alternative -- to go ahead and do it illegally and hope TSR doesn't find out -- is just plain wrong and [pardon the flame-bait] stupid.) The "MPGN disclaimer" which many of you have undoubtedly heard of is in for all practical purposes a "license" from TSR to go ahead and publish derivative works of TSR properties, with the disclaimer that those are not "official" works (and a few other legal disclaimers that protect TSR's original copyrights and protects TSR from legal actions should the derivative works violate some law (such as copyrights of a third party, or obscenity laws, or whatever). So here's what I propose: Someone should contact Sean Reynolds, TSR's on-line rep, at TSRInc@aol.com, explain what we'd like to do (in polite, non-confrontational terms!), and ask for a current copy of all required disclaimers and for permission to set up a Mystara web site (on the condition that all TSR-related material that will be posted there will contain the necessary disclaimers). In fact, I volunteer for that duty. Here's why: I'd like to see Mystara remain "alive" -- and I really like the idea of seeing the almanacs continued (especially the events sections and horoscopes) via files posted to the 'net. I'd even like to participate in keeping Mystara alive. But I can't, in good conscience, participate in any project that either ignores or willfully violates TSR's "intellectual property" rights -- copyrights and trademarks. So unless the Mystara web site gets TSR's official approval, I won't be able to contribute my $.02 worth to it. :-( Best regards, Ann Dupuis wildmule@aol.com (for those of you used to seeing me as "ghostgames@aol.com" - -- this list was flooding my company's mailbox with so many messages, I felt it necessary to unsubscribe and resubscribe with my personal account, separating "fun stuff" from "business stuff"!) ------------------------------ From: Wildmule@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:29:46 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Horoscopes Hi, all! Ann Dupuis here! About those Almanac horoscopes and their "patterns" -- The first year I included them, I just made up what "house" each sign was in. The next year, I simply rotated the "houses" one place; the "houses" follow the same order as the "signs." (at least I *think* that's what I did. No horoscopes in "Joshuan's Almanac;" I didn't do it for a third year) But anyone who's into real-earth astrology may feel free to add whatever complexity, etc. is desired to the precession (procession?) of the houses. Also -- the idea of monthly horoscopes (and weather!) is great! Go for it! Gotta go do real work now, see you all later! - --Ann Dupuis wildmule@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 12:10:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] web site According to Ann's incredibly comprehensive (and quite thoughtful) letter, we have some work to do if we want ot get Mystara on the Web. But until then, I say we start posting stuff here first. In regards to a previous posting, I like the idea of rumors like the different sections of gazeteers ("What everyone kows", "What the DM knows", etc.). Oh, and Ann, thanks for telling me how you worked the horoscopes--it's helping me to come up with a workable pattern. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #17 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #18 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Friday, 17 November 1995 Volume 01 : Number 018 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nightshade" Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 14:29:01 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Web Site > Ann Dupuis, here! > > But simply posting stuff to a web site and not telling TSR > about it isn't the way to do it. > So -- simply posting files about the Mystara world (continuing > the Almanacs, etc.) to a web site is a violation of the > copyright laws of the United States, and also (I'm pretty sure) > of any country that follows the Berne Convention. I'm sorry Ann, but this interpretation shuts down most of the Internet. Every single fan group would have to be closed down. 90% of the signal noise on the *.binaries and *.sounds would have to go, the art archives would be closed, etc. > It's perfectly legal to *refer to* a trademark, as in the > following sentence: > > The MYSTARA(r) setting is a fictional world developed for > role-playing with the DUNGEONS & DRAGONS(r) game. Yes, but TSR doesn't see this as enough. They want to exercise editorial quality and content control on any and all 'supplements' distributed. We offered this (a single line mention of rightful and lawful trademark owners) but it was restricted for some reason. > The next step is to proceed to do what's necessary for > those projects to go forward -- legally -- and that's to get > a license from TSR. (The alternative -- to totally strip out > all mention of TSR's intellectual properties -- wouldn't do > much to keep Mystara alive. And the other alternative -- > to go ahead and do it illegally and hope TSR doesn't find out -- > is just plain wrong and [pardon the flame-bait] stupid.) This is flat out unwanted. The licencing agreement on the books as it stands involves conforming to the TSR code of ethics, which after reading it, I cannot consciencely accept. > But I can't, in good conscience, participate in any project that > either ignores or willfully violates TSR's "intellectual > property" rights -- copyrights and trademarks. These 'rights' have transmuted over time, back and forth. At one point they claimed to have complete control over the usage of 'AC' and 'Fireball', not to mention 'Drow'. Their distribution rights are also something reprehensible. I was sent a document whom the author claimed to have sent to Dragon to be printed. Initially it was accepted, but turned down just prior to the final copy, but TSR retained ownership (as is legal). A few months ago, a $20-$30 product was released which contained (in expanded format) approximately 90-100% of this man's work, claiming to have been written by TSR staff. (for authenticity, I received the man's work over 9 months ago, long before this product was ever announced) > So unless the Mystara web site gets TSR's official approval, > I won't be able to contribute my $.02 worth to it. :-( I'm sorry you feel this way, but I could not, in good conscience, contribute if it were 'approved'. > Best regards, > Ann Dupuis > wildmule@aol.com Nightshade Creator of the Stormwinds Mystarra alternate setting. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: "matthew r shenk/scss/74757" Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:24:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Web Site SIGNOFF mystara-l@io.com Matt Shenk NAIC/SCSS 74757 ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 22:34:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Web Site >Ann Dupuis, here! >The "MPGN disclaimer" which many of you have undoubtedly >heard of is in for all practical purposes a "license" from TSR >to go ahead and publish derivative works of TSR properties, >with the disclaimer that those are not "official" works Hey!! We would be officially unofficial! :') I don't see why this would be a big problem. In my mind, anything I contribute to the new Almanac would be freeware--for DM's or for even TSR to pick up and use. And if we could show TSR that enough people are interested enough in Mystara to try to keep it alive, it might just be that little push that gets the whole ball rolling again for new TSR-published material. And as long as we use disclaimers, TSR has nothing to lose; is that correct? I understand copyright laws and such can be very confusing, but since I am musician/composer and my finacee, Laura, is hoping to become a syndicated cartoonist, we have to respect the intellectual rights and property of others. Mystara is something we both enjoy and love, and I would do anything to see it continue. We have nothing to lose, but everything to gain. Anyway, on to more creative endevours. This is what I would like to see happen. Starting whenever we get the okay, we post events here on the list (current events, horoscopes, weather, etc.) starting Nuwmont 1st, AC 1014. If we post events on a monthly basis, it won't drive those of us with other duties out of our minds. By the end of one month's real time, we can "archive" the past month's events on the web page for those who want to catch up, or who have missed some events. I will be posting events in the format of the Poor Wizard's Almanacs, but if anyone just wants to post rumors that's encouraged too! I don't know what events will be detailed in the Joaquin's Almanac, but I hope most of them will be wrapped up by the end of AC 1013 (I hope we find out about this "new" Immortal named Gareth!) I agree with Laura that even if two different people use the same character, nation, etc. that both people should not be afraid to post their storyline. Remember that this will be the "unofficial" history--the only difference is that "our" history is continuing while TSR's is not. I was considering the idea to post the holidays, festivals, etc. in one post each month. Is that worth the bandwidth to waste time with, or does it contribute to the feeling of Mystara's continuing history? The sooner we get everything straightened out, the sooner we get Mystara back on track. - --Ron PS Could disclaimers be posted in a form similar to a monthly FAQ report? ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 15:28:36 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Regarding TSRs License Hi there! I had a discussion on TSRs "online policy" or whatever you should call it with Sean Reynolds a while back. He tried to convince me that the "disclaimer" was there to protect my rights as well as TSR's and that it is "perfectly safe" to use. But he _never_ conviced me about the most disturbing phrase in there, that TSR has to _allow_ me to publish my _own_ material once it was published somewhere _with_ their disclaimer. I can't help to feel that I'm getting ripped off here. I don't want the person who sets up the site to be the target of TSRs Wrath, but then, I don't think I want to have TSR tell me how I am to publish _my_ inventions. And I can't figure out what TSR is _so_ afraid of regarding freeware contributions. They are _clearly_ unofficial, they are _clearly_ not by TSR, and they are _clearly_ _my_ creative effort. No doubt I was inspired to this effort by another publication, but to me that is irrelevant. It's all a lot easier in computer science. If you publish a paper somewhere (eg. at a conference) none of the other authors you cite from or are inspired from will threaten to take you to court if you properly reference his work and give credit where credit is due. Games seem to be a lot more serious than computer science nowadays. And some time ago it seemed to be the other way round... Never mind. If you want to dicuss my view, please do so by e-mail. By(T)e... Peter... - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2i mQBhAi5ABr0AAAECmgMvdIdvt/ialQO8IsoB6tRSkdivRlhhuzNAYAK/CyIvxUuo 0V5EXOf6R445FErUt2B2YG4yos9e6rBlWOOVr9ijZfTH0bNZlXCdCpThInn0eMDK 7QAFEbQqUGV0ZXIgRnJvZWhsaWNoIDxwLmZyb2VobGljaEBhbWMuY3ViZS5uZXQ+ tBhwLmZyb2VobGljaEBhbWMuY3ViZS5uZXQ= =sKOf - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 15:36:24 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Web Site Hi! On Di 14.11.1995 around 04:34:44 Ron wrote in message "[Mystara] Web Site" > I don't see why this would be a big problem. In my mind, anything I > contribute to the new Almanac would be freeware--for DM's or for even TSR > to pick up and use. Freeware implies (to me at least) that it should be availiable _freely_ to _everyone_ interested in the subject matter. If TSR takes the stuff on the Web Site by the end of the year, reformats it and publishes it under "Webby's Almanac" they will make money from it. Money that _none_ of us will see anything of. I don't think that many contributors would agree with this. > [...how it'll happen...] I agree with the "Way to go" you propose. But let's get this copyright/disclaimer/TSR/Freeware/money stuff settled first. By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 08:50:29 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Regarding TSRs License > Hi there! > > > I had a discussion on TSRs "online policy" or whatever you should call it > with Sean Reynolds a while back. He tried to convince me that the > "disclaimer" was there to protect my rights as well as TSR's and that it is > "perfectly safe" to use. > > But he _never_ conviced me about the most disturbing phrase in there, > that TSR has to _allow_ me to publish my _own_ material once it was > published somewhere _with_ their disclaimer. > > I can't help to feel that I'm getting ripped off here. I don't want the > person who sets up the site to be the target of TSRs Wrath, but then, I > don't think I want to have TSR tell me how I am to publish _my_ inventions. Unfortunately TSR considers it to be partially their invention as well. Which is sort of logical since they (or at least their authors) invented most of the world of Mystara. > And I can't figure out what TSR is _so_ afraid of regarding freeware > contributions. They are _clearly_ unofficial, they are _clearly_ not by > TSR, and they are _clearly_ _my_ creative effort. No doubt I was inspired > to this effort by another publication, but to me that is irrelevant. The problem is according to IP law the fact that you were inspired by another publication is _very_ relevant. Which is why there are laws concerning derivative works. Anything we wrote for Mystara would almost certainly be derivative (unless we detail a totally new portion of the world). > It's all a lot easier in computer science. If you publish a paper > somewhere (eg. at a conference) none of the other authors you cite from or > are inspired from will threaten to take you to court if you properly > reference his work and give credit where credit is due. No, but if you market a program which makes use of a good portion of someone else's code I'm sure they'll be upset. (Kind of like Microsoft DoubleSpace and Stacker). The reason you can cite another author in a paper is because of fair use. Its the part of copyright law that allows you to cite an auther in a term paper, or a movie critic to quote the movie. > Games seem to be a lot more serious than computer science nowadays. And > some time ago it seemed to be the other way round... Never mind. If you > want to dicuss my view, please do so by e-mail. In some ways I agree with you, and I think TSR was (and may still be) handling the situation. Unfortunately, for what we want to do TSR has a good chance of being legally correct, whether we like it or not. _______________________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 08:55:11 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Web Site > From owner-mystara-l@io.com Wed Nov 15 07:11:15 1995 > From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) > X-Mailer: -- The Answer V3.06 > To: mystara-l@io.com > Subject: Re: [Mystara] Web Site > Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 15:36:24 +0100 > Organization: AMIGA CITY - Public Amiga-BBS, Munich, Germany > X-Gateway: ZCONNECT ?? amc.cube.net [Z-NEWS 2.5d/AMIGA] > X-Reply-Level: 1 > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset=ISO-8859-1> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com > Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > X-Mdf: Mail for pierpont sent to pierpont@shelley.mitre.org > Content-Length: 835 > > Hi! > > On Di 14.11.1995 around 04:34:44 Ron wrote in message "[Mystara] Web Site" > > > I don't see why this would be a big problem. In my mind, anything I > > contribute to the new Almanac would be freeware--for DM's or for even TSR > > to pick up and use. > > Freeware implies (to me at least) that it should be availiable _freely_ > to _everyone_ interested in the subject matter. > > If TSR takes the stuff on the Web Site by the end of the year, reformats > it and publishes it under "Webby's Almanac" they will make money from it. > Money that _none_ of us will see anything of. I don't think that many > contributors would agree with this. A good point. TSR shouldn't be able to just use our stuff. Especially since, if they use it, we can't anymore. If TSR is going to limit our distribution of the material, then we should make sure they have similar limits. Perhaps a revised version of the MPGN disclaimer would work. Basically we need TSR's permission to distribute it since its derived from their works, but they need our permission to distribute it since its our ideas. And anybody else that wants to publish it has to ask both parties. __________________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 10:25:06 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] New Detail Hey Listers, I am going to be creating a new section on my web site called "Toowins Travels". It will detail a world called "Mystarra" (I got the world idea from another persons post here). Toowin will mainly be travelling on the Eastern continent "Shokarth" (or something like that). Toowin will be providing maps (mostly at 72 mile hexes) along with detail notes on whats around the area. Toowin will also provide some detail maps when things get interesting. I hope to provide these on a monthly basis to start with. First one coming soon... As for copyright issues. I think if we rename our world to Mystarra then develop material for that that it would be good enough to get by copyr. If we come up with a naming convention of doubling the last constant in all names then we could easily map it to the true world of Mystara. Thus Glantri would become Glanttri. On the Timeline thoughts, I would be interested in back timelines that people may have developed for their campaign. As for the future time lines, I am mostly only concerned with major events. Later, Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com http://www.miniworld.com/ ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 10:43:37 EST Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Djaea Djaea (Hierarch of Matter) Alignment: NG Sex: Female Race: Human (Neathar) Clerical Alignment: Any Good Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Weapons Allowed: Any Bludgeoning Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Minor) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental Air (Minor) Elemental Earth (Major) Elemental Fire (Minor) Elemental Water (Minor) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Plant (Minor) Protection (Major) Summoning (Major) Sun (Minor) Weather (Minor) Granted Powers: At third level a Cleric of Djaea may accurately identify plants, animals, and clean water. At fifth level a Cleric of Djaea may shapechange into a normal bird once per day. The cleric heals d6*10% of the damage he has suffered whe this ability is used. The cleric's clothing and one item in each hand become part of the new shape to reappear when the cleric resumes human-form. The change takes one round. At sixth level the cleric may also shapechange into a reptile once per day. At seventh level may also shapechange into a mammal once per day. Clerics of Djaea have no power over undead. Symbol: A large white stone with a serpent curled around it. Interests: Preservation of Life and Planets Worshipped in: Anywhere ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 10:47:31 EST Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Eiryndul Eiryndul (Empyreal of Energy) Alignment: CG Sex: Male Race: Elf (Sylvan Realm) Clerical Alignment: Any (Preferably Non-Lawful) Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Intelligence 9 Weapons Allowed: Long Bow, Short Bow, Long Sword, Short Sword Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Major) Chaos (Major) Charm (Major) Divination (Major) Numbers (Major) Plant (Major) Granted Powers: Detect Secret and Concealed doors as an Elf. Learn the languages of forest creatures. One language may be gained per level. Clerics of Eiryndul may cause minor chaotic effects in a 20' radius. These effects are almost never harmful to the victim, who may receive a Save vs. Spells if appropriate. These effects are intended to amuse others and aid the Clerics in pranks and practical jokes. An attempted misuse of this power will fail, and perhaps Eiryndul may be so upset with the Cleric as to visit such effects on him. Example: This ability could be used to cause someone to trip and land face first into a nearby bakery dish, but not to trip and fall into a pit filled with poisonous snakes. Clerics of Eiryndul have no power over undead. Symbol: A Chesire cat smile on a black background. Interests: Forest Races, Mischief, Elves Worshipped in: Any community with close Elven ties. ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 10:50:17 EST Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Faunus Faunus (Temporal of Matter) Inuus, Lupercus, Pan Alignment: CN Sex: Male Race: Satyr Clerical Alignment: Any (Preferably Non-Lawful) Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Charisma 12 Weapons Allowed: Druidic Weapons Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Major) Chaos (Major) Charm (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental (Major) Plant (Major) Sun (Major) Travellers (Major) Weather (Major) Granted Powers: Speak with animals at will. Bonus Proficiency in one musical instrument (commonly shepard's pipes) Given a musical instrument with which he is proficient, the cleric can draw out an impulse in another. The target must be able to hear. The ability takes one full round to be effective. At the end of the round the target is allowed a Save vs. Spells at +4 to resist the effect. For each subsequent round of playing the Save is given a -1 penalty. After five rounds, and each round after, the cleric must make an unmodified Save vs. Spells or be affected himself. Any interuption requires the cleric to start over as if on the first round. This ability can only be used to amplify emotions, not create them. So, for example, a peasant who is angry with the tax collector could be made angry enough to attack him, but a meditating cleric could not. This ability may affect multiple targets. Clerics of Faunus have no power over undead. Symbol: A drinking horn with ram's horns. Interests: Forest Races, Hedonism Worshipped in: Any community with ties to forest races. ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 10:51:42 EST Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Frey and Freyja (Celestials of Thought) Fredar and Fredara Alignment: LG Sex: Male and Female respectively Race: Human (Antalian) Clerical Alignment: Lawful or Neutral Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Charisma 9 Constitution 9 Weapons Allowed: Any sword, knife, or dagger. Spells Granted: All (Major) Combat (Major) Divination (Major) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Thought (Major) War (Major) Granted Powers: Gain to hit and damage bonuses for exceptional strength as a fighter. Gain extra hit points for exceptional constitution as a fighter. Use d10 for determining hit points instead of d8. May specialize as a fighter. (Under weapon mastery rules clerics of Frey and Freyja progress as fighters.) Clerics of Frey and Freyja have added bonuses when commanding troops. In Battlesystem terms this equates to: Hits for these heros are determined as fighters. Command Diameter is determined as for a fighter. These heros add +2 to the ML of any unit they command. They may command fighter units as well as priest units. Appropriate bonuses should be given for games using another mass combat system. Bonus Proficiency: Military Tactics. Clerics of Frey and Freyja may turn Undead. Symbol: Frey: A crossed sceptre and sickle Freyja: A pegasus Interests: Intelligent Warfare Worshipped in: Antalia, the Northern Reaches ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 10:54:23 EST Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Great One The Great One (Eternal of Matter) Ruler of All Drognkind Alignment: TN Sex: Male Race: Dragon Clerical Alignment: Any Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: Any bludgeoning Spells Granted: All (Major) Astral (Major) Creation(Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Numbers (Major) Protection (Major) Thought (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of the Great One have no power over undead. Fly once per day as per the spell. Learn the languages of Dragonkin (Humankin for Dragons) at the rate of one per level. Shapechange to Half-Dragon form for one hour per level usable once per day. The Half-Dragon is of the appropriate type if the cleric is a dragon, or of a dragon of the clerics alignment, chosen at character creation, if the cleric is human. (q.v. Council of Wyrms for statistics on Half-Dragons. Alternatively the half-dragon should have claw/claw/bite natural attacks, a much reduced breath weapon, and resistances similar to those of the dragon. Exact statistics are left to DM interpretation.) Symbol: Himself (a three-headed dragon) Interests: Dragons Worshipped in: Anywhere dragons are found. ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 11:04:44 EST Subject: [Mystara] [Specialty Priests] Halav Halav (Celestial of Thought) Red-Hair, Patron of Warfare, Patron of Weaponmaking Alignment: LG Sex: Male Race: Human (Karameikos) Clerical Alignment: Lawful Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Strength 9 Weapons Allowed: Any Slashing or Piercing Spells Granted: All (Major) Combat (Major) Divination (Minor) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Necromantic (Minor) Protection (Major) Thought (Major) War (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Halav may Turn Undead +2 to hit vs. humanoids Gain bonuses to hit and damage due to exceptional strength as a fighter. Gain extra hit point due to high constitution as a fighter. Use d10 to determine hit points instead of d8. Symbol: A sword laid on an anvil Interests: Warfare, Opposing Humanoids Worshipped in: Karameikos and surroundings ------------------------------ From: urklore@tiac.net (Urklore the Iron) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 20:04:56 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] TEST, please ignore! ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #18 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #19 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Sunday, 26 November 1995 Volume 01 : Number 019 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: urklore@tiac.net (Urklore the Iron) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 20:14:03 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] TEST! Please ignore completly test ************************************************************************ * Bill Schwartz, Billcutis of Borg, Iceman Incarnate, Internet Lord * * Galaxy Ranger (With Series-5 Brain Implant and Bio-Defenses) * * Leader of ANIME ADVENTURERS, Finisher of the World of XEEN * * Level 7.5 DM, Keeper of the Netdisks, Keeper of 78 RPG Systems * * Slave to the all powerful JOLT, Forever Knight Vampire Fledgling * * Level 6 Thief (Evil insane mocking laughter), ROBOTECH Master * * "Die Autobots!!", "Clearly I can not choose the wine in front of me" * * "It musst give usss our preciousss!", "Warp 7.....Engage!." * * "Orbots Unite!", "Blood and Souls for my Lord Arioch!" * ************************************************************************ ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 13:47:10 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Web Site Hi Bruce! On Mi 15.11.1995 around 14:55:11 you wrote in message "[Mystara] Web Site" > > If TSR takes the stuff on the Web Site by the end of the year, reformats > > it and publishes it under "Webby's Almanac" they will make money from it. > > Money that _none_ of us will see anything of. I don't think that many > > contributors would agree with this. > > A good point. TSR shouldn't be able to just use our stuff. Especially since, > if they use it, we can't anymore. If TSR is going to limit our distribution of > the material, then we should make sure they have similar limits. According to Sean Reynolds this is the case. But according to the wording of the disclaimer TSR is better off. Maybe someone could again post the current disclaimer here so we can better discuss it. > Perhaps a > revised version of the MPGN disclaimer would work. Basically we need TSR's > permission to distribute it since its derived from their works, but they need > our permission to distribute it since its our ideas. And anybody else that > wants to publish it has to ask both parties. I could agree to that for contributions to the almanac. However I wouldn't agree to it if I was to publish something "bigger". I guess I would then go for "guerilla (sp?) publication". :-) By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 04:22:07 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] PBeM I am getting ready to start a PBEM WOtI campaign, and am looking to see if there are any interested players out there. It will be a fairly small group, 3-4 players, so, if you are interested, just send me some email at jsmill@imap1.asu.edu. Thanks. ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 17:14:58 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Blackmoor references again... Hi there! Let me quote from an older mail from Shelby first... > It has been > conjectured that he was still rather upset with Gygax, evidence the > power-hungry arch-villain "the Egg of Coot." (E.G.G., E. Gary Gygax is > a coot.) Now that I had a look at "DA4: The Duchy of Ten" I wondered if the "Brothers of the Greenwood" are also such a reference (be it good or bad) to famous Ed "Elminster" Greenwood. Any comments? By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 11:24:52 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Old modules I just picked up a couple of the old OD&D modules from a used bookstore the other day, just to try and round out my collectio nof OD&D stuff. I have most of the basic modules, but I am still not quite sure of what else I need. Does anyone out there have a listing of all the old modules? Particularly the Companion and Masters level ones? Any help would be appreciated, thanks! ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 95 14:04:56 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old modules > From owner-mystara-l@io.com Wed Nov 22 14:01:09 1995 > Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 11:24:52 -0700 (MST) > From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" > Subject: [Mystara] Old modules > X-Sender: jsmill@general1.asu.edu > > I just picked up a couple of the old OD&D modules from a used bookstore > the other day, just to try and round out my collectio nof OD&D stuff. I > have most of the basic modules, but I am still not quite sure of what > else I need. Does anyone out there have a listing of all the old modules? > Particularly the Companion and Masters level ones? Any help would be > appreciated, thanks! > > Check out http://info.acm.org/~papay/tsr_prices_intro.html Its a list of all the TSR modules ever sold on the net, just look down the list for CM? and M? (or B?, X?, and IM?). |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 14:03:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old modules > I just picked up a couple of the old OD&D modules from a used bookstore > the other day, just to try and round out my collectio nof OD&D stuff. I > have most of the basic modules, but I am still not quite sure of what > else I need. Does anyone out there have a listing of all the old modules? > Particularly the Companion and Masters level ones? Any help would be > appreciated, thanks! Those more knowledgeable can add more, but: B1 Search for the Unknown B2 Keep on the Borderlands B3 Palace of the Silver Princess B4 The Lost City B5 Horror on The Hill B6 Veiled Society B10 Night's Dark Terror X1 Isle of Dread X2 Castle Amber X3 Curse of Xanathon X6 Quagmire X8 Drums on Fire mt XL-1 Quest for the Heartstone(??) DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor DA2 Temple of Frog DA3 City of Gds DA4 Duchy of Ten O1 The Gem and the Staff O2 Blade of Vengeance(??) CM1(An intro to Norworld-forgot the name) CM4 Earthshaker CM6 Where Chaos Reigns CM8 The Eternal Staircase M1 Into the Maelstrom M2 Alphaks' Revenge(??) M3 Twilight something(A really cool pre-immortal adventure) IM1 Immortal Storm IM2 Wrath of Olympus The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, roman nor an empire. ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 95 14:42:49 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old modules > From owner-mystara-l@io.com Wed Nov 22 14:28:56 1995 > Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 14:03:46 -0500 (EST) > From: Mischa E Gelman > Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old modules > To: mystara-l@io.com > Cc: mystara-l@io.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII> > Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com > Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com > X-Mdf: Mail for pierpont sent to pierpont@shelley.mitre.org > Content-Length: 1183 > > > I just picked up a couple of the old OD&D modules from a used bookstore > > the other day, just to try and round out my collectio nof OD&D stuff. I > > have most of the basic modules, but I am still not quite sure of what > > else I need. Does anyone out there have a listing of all the old modules? > > Particularly the Companion and Masters level ones? Any help would be > > appreciated, thanks! > Those more knowledgeable can add more, but: > B1 Search for the Unknown > B2 Keep on the Borderlands > B3 Palace of the Silver Princess > B4 The Lost City > B5 Horror on The Hill > B6 Veiled Society B7 Rahasia B8 Journey to the Rock B9 Castle Caldwell & Beyond > B10 Night's Dark Terror B11 King's Festival B12 Queen's Harvest B1-9 In Search of Adventure CM1 Test of the Warlords CM2 Death's Ride CM3 Sabre River > CM4 Earthshaker CM5 Mystery of the Snow Pearls > CM6 Where Chaos Reigns CM7 Tree of Life > CM8 The Eternal Staircase CM9 Legacy of Blood > DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor > DA2 Temple of Frog > DA3 City of Gds > DA4 Duchy of Ten DDA1 Arena of Thyatis DDA2 Legions of Thyatis DDA3 Eye of Traldar DDA4 The Dymrak Dread HWA1 Nightwail HWA2 Nightrage HWA3 Nightstorm HWQ1 Milenian Sceptre > IM1 Immortal Storm > IM2 Wrath of Olympus IM3 Best of Intentions M1 Into the Maelstrom M2 Vengeance of Alphaks M3 Twighlight Calling M4 Five Coins for a Kingdom M5 Talons of Night > O1 The Gem and the Staff > O2 Blade of Vengeance(??) > X1 Isle of Dread > X2 Castle Amber > X3 Curse of Xanathon X4 Master of the Desert Nomads X5 Temple of Death > X6 Quagmire X7 War Rafts of Kron > X8 Drums on Fire Mountain X9 Savage Coast X10 Red Arrow, Black Shield (War Machine/Battlesystem) X11 Saga of the Shadow Lord X12 Skarda's Mirror X13 Crown of Ancient Glory > XL-1 Quest for the Heartstone ___________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: "Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield" Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 15:10:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Thanegios Archepeligo Hello all. First, to "The Shadow Dragon" (I know you've joined too) DON'T READ THIS!!!!!!!!! -- Jam ====================== Second, to everyone else.... I posted a variation on the following request to the rec.games.frp.dnd newsgroup a short while ago and was directed to this mailing list by several helpful people. Although I assume that many of you also read that news group (I understand this list is fairly young) I thought I'd pass my query along again, just to be sure of getting the most possible suggestions. I've been the DM for a really good D&D gaming group for just over a year and I'm getting to a point that I want to move the players and the campaign on to some more interesting areas. Part of my situation stems from the fact that, while I don't own a lot of the D&D Gazetter's, one of the players does (he DM's another game). This means that I do have access to much of the information about the D&D world of Mystara, but I also have to be tricky since the player most of the stuff belongs to (aka The Shadow Dragon) is a virtual walking D&D Cyclopeda and trivia buff. (Now just to be clear: Its not that he can't separate player from character knowledge, in fact, he is one of the best players I know for maintaining that necessary dichotomy. Its just that I'd like to be able to surprise him every once in a while....) What I'm wondering is whether anyone knows if TSR has written anything up for the Thanegios Archepeligo, which is far to the South of the Northern continent of Mystara, in the Sea of Dread, and contains the Isle of Dread. There is a brief mention of it in the D&D Cyclopedia, but not much to go on. I also have access to PC3 (The Sea People) which also mentions it in passing, but again, there isn't much there. Part of my problem stems from the fact that I'm still not all that confident of my DMing abilities when it comes to developing areas. Whenever I have "ideas" I always seem to get out of control and things don't come together properly. I'm okay if I start with something and then hack it to pieces, but I just seem to need a starting point. Now, I know that TSR has (sadly) stopped producing supplements for the D&D Mystara, and that (or so I have been told) even in the AD&D world, only the Red Steel area (Savage Coast after the Wrath of The Imortals) is the only stuff that will be continued, but if anyone has any suggestions on how to develop this area, or can recommend some Modules (even *gasp* AD&D ones) that could be made to fit in to an area of remote islands, I'd appreciate it. The odd thing is, the name "Isle of Dread" sounds familiar -- is there, by chance, anything out there specifically for the "Isle of Dread" and its environs? If anyone knows anything, especially if they know where I could get such a beast at a fairly reasonable price, I'd really appreaciate hearing about it. Oh, and I'd also appreciate private responses, just so certain prying eyes are less likely to know what I'm up to :-). I promise to post a summary of worthwhile responses to the list afterwards if there is enough interest. Thanks, in advance, for any help anyone can offer :-) Jenni Merrifield - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield == mott@sfu.ca == SFU Computer Engineering WWW Home Page -- http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/jamjar.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Black Holes Are Merely Where God Divided By Zero" -- unknown ------------------------------ From: "The Dark Elf." Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 10:54:09 +1100 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] mailing list how do I get onto the mailing list? - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Martin | "Everything has it's own unique beauty...... | |The Dark Elf | when you look at it from the right perspective"| - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: John Yu Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 04:20:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old modules Few more module that haven't been mentioned yet: (?) Ghost of Lion Castle (or something similar) A basic level random monster dungeon, not very interesting. BSolo(?) Blizzard Pass Invisible ink solo module ??? Riddle of the Minotaur I believe this is also a solo adventure module. XS2 Thunderdelve Mountain Solo dwarf adventure. (So whats XS1?) There were also some module published a while back thats for use with the real basic D&D game (those that comes in a box). On the subject of modules, does anyone by chance have a list of all the modules and other products published for D&D and brief summary for each of them? If not, should we make one? Also, is there a FAQ on Mystera. If yes, can someone direct me to it? If not, then we probably should write one. ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 18:57:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Finally, the first astrology installment! Madame Aleksandra's Astrological Predictions for Nuwmont AC 1014 Manticore: The middle of winter has brought many a daydream of easy times and pleasant circumstances; however, beware of building castles in the air. If you wish to make your dreams a reality, be prepared for hard work in the months to come. This month, you will reap great rewards for any endeavors done not for material gain but out of the spirit of generousity. This month of your birthday will be a time of new-found love, possibly with a Dragon. Avoid dealings with a Gorgon if at all possible this month. Auspicious Day: 3 Inauspicious Day: 10 Hydra: You will meet a foe who will at first seem larger than life and invulnerable. By recognizing your fear and obeying logic and reason, you will be able to "size-down" and defeat the enemy. The Salamander Star in the House of the Hydra will bring a childhood acquaintance across your path. Auspicious Day: 4 Inauspicious Day: 25 Centaur: Only strict discipline will help guide you safely through hard times this month. The Warrior Star in the House of the Centaur warns against over-committing yourself. Auspicious Day: 13 Inauspicious Day: 11 Basilisk: Revel in the strong sense of independence and freedom that you will experience this month. The Hydra Star in the House of the Basilisk portends that you will experience indecision in an important problem. The answer to your indecision can only be found through hard work and prayer. Auspicious Day: 9 Inauspicious Day: 24 Chimera: Although you will receive something that you have always wanted this month, the Gorgon Star in the House of Chimera predicts that you will be forced to surrender something of great importance as well. Auspicious Day: 21 Inauspicious Day: 18 Gorgon: Beware of any form of cheating or trickery this month. The Manticore Star in the House of Gorgon begs that you develop a firm personal system of values. Auspicious Day: 27 Inauspicious Day: 16 Griffon: Your beliefs will be challenged this month, so be prepared to fight for your convictions. The Pegasus Star in the House of Griffon will bring the end of a struggle, but not necessarily the end that you prefer. Auspicious Day: 22 Inauspicious Day: 23 Dragon: Be sure to delegate authority this month to bring about a more successful and speedy conclusion. The Centaur Star in the House of Dragon urges great planning before action this month. Auspicious Day: 17 Inauspicious Day: 6 Salamander: Lost love will bring you disappointment and suffering. The Basilisk Star in the House of Salamander will bring great financial gain. Auspicious Day: 12 Inauspicious Day: 7 Pegasus: You will undergo a long journey this month. The Giant Star in the House of Pegasus portends anxiety that can be overcome only by handling things on a day-to-day basis. Auspicious Day: 1 Inauspicious Day: 8 Warrior: Nuwmont will be a month of joy and success. Not only will an important struggle reach a favorable end, but you will also undergo the beginning of a wonderful new love, thanks to the Chimera Star in the House of Warrior. Auspicious Day: 2 Inauspicious Day: 20 Giant: Keep in mind this month that extra protection will ensure success. The Griffon Star in the House of Giant urges you to harness any passionate feelings and creative spurts in order to make better decisions and initiate new projects. Auspicious Day: 5 Inauspicious Day: 26 Madame Aleksandra is an elderly Traladaran gypsy who has settled down to a more stable life of using her incredible psychic abilities to detail horoscopes, read palms, see into the future, and the like (all for a minimal price). This silver-haired yet noble woman resides in the town of Estarios, located on the Highreach River about 12 miles north of Krakatos. Estarios is the seat of the Marilenev Barony, ruled by Baroness Magda Marilenev-Elypsium and Dame Baroness Chanarra Elypsium-Marilenev. ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 07:09:08 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] MYSTARA products What does everyone think of the AD&D MYSTARA and RED STEEL supplements? Are they worth the money? I purchased the Glantri boxed set, and though there was some useful information in there, it sure didn't justify the price of the set. Most of the info was verbatim from the Glantri Gazetteer, and some of it was just ludicrous (Prince Harald _giving away_ his former archduchy? No self respecting Glantri mage would stand for that! And the bit about Prince Kol being a Shadowelf!!! Phaugh!). I am very interested in whether or not the Mark of Amber module is any good, or for that matter, any of the Red Steel stuff (any new info therein, or just reprints of the Dragon mag articles?) Any advice here would be appreciated. Thanks. :) ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 07:27:12 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Other immortals... Seeing Bruce Pierpont's posts on the Immortals spurred a thought in my mind. I don't know about anyone else out there, but I have worked up information on many of the 'minor' immortals listed in the WOtI and various products, such as Forsett and Arik, etc. These immortals are too often passed over as being unimportant, and I feel that they need to be given their due. I could post some of these here, if anyone is interested, and would also be interested to see if anyone else out there has come fleshed out any of these immortals (sort of a 'you show me yours I'll show you mine,' I guess) or even if they've created any new immortals, either just from the flesh up, or if they are old PC's who have attained immortality. ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 14:01:37 AST Subject: [Mystara] REQ- S&P MTHACs Could someone please send me the base MTHACs for the psionics listed in the AD&D Skills and Powers book. I don't feel that I need to spend $30+ (canadian) for the whole book, I only want and need this one thing. If anybody could send it to my, private email. I'd be thankful. Thanks. Nightshade HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 14:37:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old modules Well, what started as: > > > I just picked up a couple of the old OD&D modules from a used bookstore > > > the other day, just to try and round out my collection OD&D stuff. > > > have most of the basic modules, but I am still not quite sure of what > > > else I need. Does anyone out there have a listing of all the old modules? > > > Particularly the Companion and Masters level ones? Any help would be > > > appreciated, thanks! has become our list of old modules! (which is fairly complete but I must add a few corrections and the last addition or two): BASIC LEVEL (1-3) MODULES B1 Search for the Unknown B2 Keep on the Borderlands B3 Palace of the Silver Princess B4 The Lost City B5 Horror on The Hill B6 The Veiled Society B7 Rahasia B8 Journey to the Rock B9 Castle Caldwell & Beyond B10 Night's Dark Terror B11 King's Festival B12 Queen's Harvest > B1-9 In Search of Adventure (a re-edited compilation) > BSOLO Ghost of Lion's Castle COMPANION LEVEL (15-25) MODULES CM1 Test of the Warlords CM2 Death's Ride CM3 Sabre River CM4 Earthshaker CM5 Mystery of the Snow Pearls CM6 Where Chaos Reigns CM7 Tree of Life CM8 The Eternal Staircase CM9 Legacy of Blood BLACKMOOR (10-14) ADVENTURES DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor DA2 Temple of Frog DA3 City of the Gods DA4 The Duchy of Ten MORE BASIC LEVEL MODULES (post-gazetteers) DDA1 Arena of Thyatis DDA2 Legions of Thyatis DDA3 Eye of Traldar DDA4 The Dymrak Dread HOLLOW WORLD ADVENTURES HWA1 Nightwail HWA2 Nightrage HWA3 Nightstorm HWQ1 Milenian Sceptre IMMORTAL LEVEL MODULES IM1 Immortal Storm IM2 Wrath of Olympus IM3 Best of Intentions MASTER LEVEL (26-36) MODULES M1 Into the Maelstrom M2 Vengeance of Alphaks M3 Twilight Calling M4 Five Coins for a Kingdom M5 Talons of Night MAGIC INK MODULES M (magic ink) 1 Blizzard Pass M (magic ink) 2 Maze of the Riddling Minotaur ONE-ON-ONE MODULES O1 The Gem and the Staff O2 Blade of Vengeance EXPERT LEVEL (4-14) MODULES X1 Isle of Dread X2 Castle Amber X3 Curse of Xanathon X4 Master of the Desert Nomads X5 Temple of Death X6 Quagmire! X7 War Rafts of Kron X8 Drums on Fire Mountain X9 The Savage Coast X10 Red Arrow, Black Shield (War Machine/Battlesystem) X11 Saga of the Shadow Lord X12 Skarda's Mirror X13 Crown of Ancient Glory > XL-1 Quest for the Heartstone > XSOLO 1 Lathan's Gold XSOLO 2 Thunderdelve Mountain That rounds out what is a complete list as far as I can tell. Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #19 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #20 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, 28 November 1995 Volume 01 : Number 020 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 15:02:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Other immortals... On Sun, 26 Nov 1995, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > Seeing Bruce Pierpont's posts on the Immortals spurred a thought in my > mind. I don't know about anyone else out there, but I have worked up > information on many of the 'minor' immortals listed in the WOtI and > various products, such as Forsett and Arik, etc. These immortals are too > often passed over as being unimportant, and I feel that they need to be > given their due. I could post some of these here, if anyone is > interested, and would also be interested to see if anyone else out there > has come fleshed out any of these immortals (sort of a 'you show me yours > I'll show you mine,' I guess) or even if they've created any new > immortals, either just from the flesh up, or if they are old PC's who > have attained immortality. > Well, in my campaign Arik tried to enter the prime plane one other time (circa 1004 AC). During the adventures, some of the PCs were pulled into "limbo" or the prison dimension and actually met Arik. This is how it happened: The party had split up and was exploring a relatively recently excavated cave system in the boggy moor west of Kelvin. This was the source of a scourge of bhuts that had been terrorizing the populace. Corpses were being brought back to this secret location, where an artifact "the cauldron of lost souls" was being used to create the creatures (see the Chronicles of Prydain part 2 - the Black Cauldron for the source of my inspiration). Anyway, at one point, two or three party members stumble into this small cavern that had been hewn from the surrounding clay. The PC in the forefront was a Glantrian cleric of the Claymore. The reason they entered the room in the first place was because they had seen a sinister priest leave it just a little while beforehand. So as the other two members are watching the cleric enter in front of them the strangest thing happens! The walls, floor, and ceiling of the cavern begin opening eyes! Then a mist sprang up and the cleric disappeared! From the cleric's perspective, the walls, floor, and ceiling of the room sprang open and collapsed before him into a vaguely humanoid shape standing in a pinkish misty landscape. (It was Arik). I won't go into any details as to how the characters got out of that one, but suffice it to say Arik had another of his ruby eyes destroyed. Some members jokingly began referring to him as Arik of the 99 eyes (instead of Arik of the hundred eyes) after that. Others swore not to rest until he would be come to be known as Arik the blind. Anyway, he's become a recurring personality in our campaign world. (In fact, years before he was banished to the prison dimension he even showed up at Arcanium in Glantri - but that's another story). Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: "Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield" Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 12:09:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Other immortals... Recently, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One said: > > Seeing Bruce Pierpont's posts on the Immortals spurred a thought in my > mind. I don't know about anyone else out there, but I have worked up > information on many of the 'minor' immortals listed in the WOtI and > various products, such as Forsett and Arik, etc. These immortals are too > often passed over as being unimportant, and I feel that they need to be > given their due. I could post some of these here, if anyone is > interested, and would also be interested to see if anyone else out there > has come fleshed out any of these immortals (sort of a 'you show me yours > I'll show you mine,' I guess) or even if they've created any new > immortals, either just from the flesh up, or if they are old PC's who > have attained immortality. Hey, I think that would be incredibly useful. Perhaps, as well as sharing what we've developed, we could use Cthulhudrew's suggestion as an oportunity to develop a Mystara-L "cannonical" list of D&D Immortals for those immortals with little or no "solid" information about them in TSR products. What I had in mind was that we could first compile what is definitely "known" about each one (based on what is actually available scattered throughout modules and Gaz's) and then discuss what we might considered to be reasonable extrapolations about their religious followers, their religious leaders, the general interests of the immortal, the level and region of their influence in Mystara etc. With enough of us discussing it reasonably, I'm sure we could come up with a good set of "middle ground" descriptions of each immortal. This would end up providing an extremely useful reference for both DM and Player alike. (Especially for campaigns where characters who are *not* clerics actually take an interest in following one (or more) "religions"). And, as all D&D things are, it would remain more of a "suggestive" reference, so individual DM's could add, subtract and otherwise modify as they require. We could also create a second list containing the statistics on any "new" immortals that are totally our own creations. This time, left as is, or if people are interested in constructive development and criticisms these could be modified by group concensus too. Whatever people would prefer. So, what do you all think? If we did this, I would recommend having someone select one or two of the pre-existing Mystara immortals at a time for "development", and then they would collect and collate all the information and suggestions provided by list members on each one over a specified period of time (What would you recomend? 2 weeks?) and then posting the results to Mystara-l for further discussion, criticisms and improvements. This process could be continued until there seemed to be a majority approval of the accumlated results. (I think we'd need some kind of "standard" format for the final results. Any suggestions?) For "new" immortals, someone could collect whatever people are willing to offer (the same or another someone) and put them together using the same standard format. (This job is made easier if people submit their creations using the format that is decided on!) Just so you know that I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, I'd be willing to handle the collection and collation responsibilities because I think this would be a useful and interesting project for the list to do -- just the sort of thing a mailing list to preserve the world of Mystara should promote :-). But first, lets find out if there is interest in this idea.... See you in the Dungeon Depths, strawberryJAM (aka Jenni Merrifield) - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield == mott@sfu.ca == SFU Computer Engineering strawberryJAMM == jam@wimsey.com == http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/jamjar.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Black Holes Are Merely Where God Divided By Zero" -- unknown ------------------------------ From: John Yu Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 16:39:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old modules Just like to add a couple more things about the OD&D modules. X1 Isle of the Dread have 2 types of cover B3 Palace of Silver Princess have a edition that was recalled due to a questionable interior art. XL-1 Quest for the Heartstone: Some action figures have been produced for the characters in this module. Does anyone else know any other interesting facts about other modules? ------------------------------ From: "The Dark Elf." Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 10:25:14 +1100 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MYSTARA products On Sun, 26 Nov 1995, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > What does everyone think of the AD&D MYSTARA and RED STEEL supplements? > Are they worth the money? I purchased the Glantri boxed set, and though > there was some useful information in there, it sure didn't justify the > price of the set. Most of the info was verbatim from the Glantri > Gazetteer, and some of it was just ludicrous (Prince Harald _giving away_ > his former archduchy? No self respecting Glantri mage would stand for > that! And the bit about Prince Kol being a Shadowelf!!! Phaugh!). I am > very interested in whether or not the Mark of Amber module is any good, > or for that matter, any of the Red Steel stuff (any new info therein, or > just reprints of the Dragon mag articles?) > Any advice here would be appreciated. Thanks. :) > hmmm the bit about Kol being a shadow elf is likely with what is in gaz 13 the shadow elves... it has something to do with their using of the radience, and instead of the user getting affected.. it is a new born baby, and that baby is left outside the sadow elf community where the shadow elf god directs humanoid creatures to the deforomed babies, and they look after them as if they are their own.. the deformaties were to make them look like some of the humanoids I guess.... I have the Mark of Amber module... it seems fairly straight forward... with a plot one can work with, and a fairly open script... but I would have to wait until I have run it to know for sure... the CD is okay.. at least this one does not have PC's talking on it like some of the earlier ones I heard... the CD only helps the DM.. you could easily do without it... but it does add a lot more atmosphere to the game... does anyone on here have the armour rating for piece armour in the Nithia setting?? - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Martin | "Everything has it's own unique beauty...... | |The Dark Elf | when you look at it from the right perspective"| - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 20:34:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MYSTARA products >What does everyone think of the AD&D MYSTARA and RED STEEL supplements? >Are they worth the money? I purchased the Glantri boxed set, and though >there was some useful information in there, it sure didn't justify the >price of the set. Most of the info was verbatim from the Glantri >Gazetteer, and some of it was just ludicrous (Prince Harald _giving away_ >his former archduchy? No self respecting Glantri mage would stand for >that! And the bit about Prince Kol being a Shadowelf!!! Phaugh!). I am >very interested in whether or not the Mark of Amber module is any good, >or for that matter, any of the Red Steel stuff (any new info therein, or >just reprints of the Dragon mag articles?) >Any advice here would be appreciated. Thanks. :) The Karameikos boxed set was excellent, except that the CD module was absolute crap (And don't even get me started on what they did to the npc profile of Lady Magda Marilenev...that should be along the same lines as blasphemy!) Anyway, the Mark of Amber is a must buy. The CD far surpasses any of the previous AD&D MYSTARA attempts. ------------------------------ From: Matt Chatterley Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 02:15:47 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MYSTARA products On Sun, 26 Nov 1995, Mistress wrote: > >What does everyone think of the AD&D MYSTARA and RED STEEL supplements? > >Are they worth the money? I purchased the Glantri boxed set, and though > >there was some useful information in there, it sure didn't justify the > >price of the set. Most of the info was verbatim from the Glantri > >Gazetteer, and some of it was just ludicrous (Prince Harald _giving away_ > >his former archduchy? No self respecting Glantri mage would stand for > >that! And the bit about Prince Kol being a Shadowelf!!! Phaugh!). I am > >very interested in whether or not the Mark of Amber module is any good, > >or for that matter, any of the Red Steel stuff (any new info therein, or > >just reprints of the Dragon mag articles?) > >Any advice here would be appreciated. Thanks. :) > > The Karameikos boxed set was excellent, except that the CD module > was absolute crap (And don't even get me started on what they did to the > npc profile of Lady Magda Marilenev...that should be along the same lines > as blasphemy!) Anyway, the Mark of Amber is a must buy. The CD far > surpasses any of the previous AD&D MYSTARA attempts. > The Wrath ofthe Immortals boxed set is an excellent campaign set in Mystara - its for something like lvl 1 - 18 .. basically a bunch of quests that PC needs to carry out at some point, and events that oocur etc..worked in around a ood central campaign as an undertone which eventaully takes over it works well. Matt Chatterley neddy@itl.net matt@arh0261.urh.uiuc.edu http://user.itl.net/~neddy/index.html - "Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." ------------------------------ From: John Yu Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 02:36:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MYSTARA products > > >Gazetteer, and some of it was just ludicrous (Prince Harald _giving away_ > > >his former archduchy? No self respecting Glantri mage would stand for > > >that! And the bit about Prince Kol being a Shadowelf!!! Phaugh!). I am When a Glentri noble got promoted he have to give up his old holding, along with every one under him that got promoted due to the vacancy. However, they often leave a few surprises in their old castle. Beside, Prince Harald is not your typical Glantri wizard. I can't think up anyone other Glantri noble that are LG. > > The Karameikos boxed set was excellent, except that the CD module > > was absolute crap (And don't even get me started on what they did to the > > npc profile of Lady Magda Marilenev...that should be along the same lines > > as blasphemy!) Anyway, the Mark of Amber is a must buy. The CD far > > surpasses any of the previous AD&D MYSTARA attempts. I don't really like the Karameikos boxed set. It is a beautiful product, with the colorful artwork, but it add very little information that Gaz 1 don't have. They didn't even put much effort in describing the changes the Great War bring. Most of the NPC stays the same, just 10 years older. I find it hard to believe that all the ambassdors was the same from 10 years ago among other things. The character cards and the CD included in the box set are nearly useless. Red Steels are better. Although I don't like the concept too much, but it is original. The CD included is a music CD of good quality. However, I don't like the map included in the box. It is unhexed. Mark of Amber is interesting as it going to be a major turning point in Mystara's timeline. However, it is quite different from a traditional module as it is more free flow and most of the PC's action won't affect the result much. The CD is Ok, but I don't like some of the voice telents. > The Wrath ofthe Immortals boxed set is an excellent campaign set in > Mystara - its for something like lvl 1 - 18 .. basically a bunch of > quests that PC needs to carry out at some point, and events that oocur > etc..worked in around a ood central campaign as an undertone which > eventaully takes over it works well. > WotI is a must buy for any campaign after AC1000 ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 06:49:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Finally, the first astrology installment! I would just like to say how much I enjoyed the horoscopes. I will be saving all of these for use in my next Mystara campaign. Good work. Keep 'em coming. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 06:58:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] A Little Experiment A while back there was discussion of developing a crystal sphere (a la Spelljammer) for Mystara. At that time Shelby sent me a piece of mail to forward, since he was having problems. Well, do to a variety of problems, most revolving around my new computer, I haven't been able to send it. Well, I seem to have everything up and running, so I am going to give it a go. It has several attachments, so it may cause some people problems. The files are some text plus bitmaps of his version of Mystara's system (Titanspace). Hope this works... Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 11:43:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Other immortals... > We could also create a second list containing the statistics on any > "new" immortals that are totally our own creations. This time, left as > is, or if people are interested in constructive development and criticisms > these could be modified by group concensus too. Whatever people would > prefer. Great- I'd like to see what everyone thinks of my 20+ Immortals. They could use lots of finishing work done. Now, all i have to do is find all the char sheets so I make sure not to skip anyone. ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 15:30:49 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Toowin's Travels Hello again Listers, I have added the first installment of Toowin's Travels to my web pages. You will find a brief overview of the area as well as hex maps. I will gladly accept any contributions to these pages. What I would be looking for is details/plots/lairs/etc that would be located on the maps I produce. If you send me a quick sketch of the area I can try to convert it into the hex maps, as I have most of all the terrain features in hex grid format. Till Later Scooby(Toowin) gemjmd@kodak.com ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 16:36:51 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Toowin's Travels II Sorry, It appears that I forgot to include my site address with the last post. My web site is: http://www.miniworld.com/adnd/ (PS: I just tried access it and its not responding. This may be because of my web site at work, or the server it is on, so if you don't get in right away, try tomarrow) To send submissions you can send them to gemjmd@kodak.com Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com (daily) scooby@interramp.com(Weekly) ------------------------------ From: Wildmule@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 08:47:33 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] MYSTARA products scy26@chelsea.ios.com (John Yu) wrote: >>Beside, Prince Harald is not your typical Glantri wizard. I can't think up anyone other Glantri noble that are LG.<< Jaggar von Drachenfels used to be (Lawful, at least, as D&D doesn't have the good/evil axis). (It wasn't my idea to have him undergo a personality change.) (I set Prince Malachie up to be in a position to prove to Jaggar that his beloved was an evil dragon perverting his will to her own -- in the hopes that being faced with this fact would jolt him out of his charmed state and bring out the dragon-slayer in him...) >>I don't really like the Karameikos boxed set. It is a beautiful product, with the colorful artwork, but it add very little information that Gaz 1 don't have. They didn't even put much effort in describing the changes the Great War bring. Most of the NPC stays the same, just 10 years older. I find it hard to believe that all the ambassdors was the same from 10 years ago among other things. << This is a common criticism with the Karameikan boxed set -- and I have to agree with it. I was working on one of the Almanacs at the same time Jeff was pulling the boxed set together. I thought it was time to finally bring the political/religious rivalries to a head with the death of Olliver Jowett (as was mentioned in the original Gazetteer, this would set off a sort of civil war) -- but that idea was nixxed due to conflicts with the boxed set materials. In fairness to Jeff, as a TSR staff member he was a *very* busy man, and I'm sure he wasn't given the time he would have liked to make the Karameikos boxed set what it *could* have been (i.e., a very different Karameikos with all the ramifications of the war of the Wrath of the Immortals explored). As an author, I know there have been some things I would have liked to do with the Almanacs that the schedule simply didn't permit. (I finally got the time to do the revamping of the product TSR wanted to do -- by calling in a co-author!) And now, as a publisher, I'm discovering that this is the norm rather than an exception -- very few products are given all the development time they truly deserve! I've already held one product back 3 months to try to make it better -- but if I hold it back until I'm fully satisfied with it, it may never see print! Enough rambling -- I'll close with a bit of news. Joshuan's Almanac is out now -- I just got my author's copies! It looks pretty good. Of course, the first thing I noticed were a couple typos and a mistake or two... I can't even blame TSR for them, as Liz Tornabene and I did the writing, the editing, the layout, *and* the proofreading on this one. Best regards, Ann Dupuis ------------------------------ From: Wildmule@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 08:47:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old modules >> That rounds out what is a complete list as far as I can tell. >> Jim Sahlas<< Looks pretty complete to me. If anyone finds an available copy of CM2: Death's Ride, please let me know -- it's the only one I don't have. Best regards, Ann Dupuis ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 17:08:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Other immortals... I like the idea of fleshing out the scant "official" descriptions of the various minor Immortals of Mystara! Let's get started by picking a name and a deadline for submissions as soon as possible. Did anyone else notice that Idris of X11 - Saga of the Shadowlord was not mentioned in WotI? I think she is the only one that was missed (anybody notice anybody else?) In my own campaign I made her another manifestation of Thanatos' consort and tied her to the fallen empire of - (whispered) - Nithia. (Pause as I look over my shoulder) Anyway, that's all for now. Jim Sahlas P.S. Ann, how are the legal/paralegal issues coming along? ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 19:45:37 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MYSTARA products scy26@chelsea.ios.com (John Yu) wrote: > > Beside, > Prince Harald is not your typical Glantri wizard. I can't think up > anyone other Glantri noble that are LG.<< > > My point with Prince Harald giving away his dominion was simply to point out that this is not standard practice in Glantri- Nobles must compete for higher dominions, especially (IMO) an Archduchy. I find that the designer of ther Glantri boxed set (can't think of his name offhand) sidstepped some really important political processes that could have some major repurcussions, simply in order to avoid having to rewrite some of what was presented in Bruce Heard's original Glantri Gazetteer. This was mainly to illustrate how badly done I feel this product was. In my own campaign, I have instituted a number of changes- mainly giving the Archduchy to John Beaumarys-Moorkroft, and every lesser dominion to others, giving all a chance to go up in rank. It also shakes up a lot of political alignments, and makes things a bit more interesting. As for Kol being a shadowelf- Yes, I suppose it is possible, but I much prefer him being just a regular old Kobold. I do feel that this particular change was only made so that TSR could make the transition to AD&D without having to break a few rules (namely about having Kobold/Mages). Also, what happened to Thar's Vampirism/Nosferatuism in PWA 1012? ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #20 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #21 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, 5 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 021 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 23:33:00 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Other immortals... On Tue, 28 Nov 1995, D.J. Sahlas wrote: > > I like the idea of fleshing out the scant "official" descriptions > of the various minor Immortals of Mystara! Let's get started by picking > a name and a deadline for submissions as soon as possible. > Wow! I'm glad to see the response my post has been getting on this topic. I think we should get started on this right away. If no one has any objections, I'd like to take Forsetta (a sorely neglected immortal- I've always been fond of him since X3 was one of the first modules I ever played) and/or Cretia from that same module. I think that Jenn's idea of a two week time limit sounds reasonable. Anyone else have any thoughts? ------------------------------ From: "Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield" Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 23:53:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Other immortals... Recently, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One said: > > On Tue, 28 Nov 1995, D.J. Sahlas wrote: > > > > I like the idea of fleshing out the scant "official" descriptions > > of the various minor Immortals of Mystara! Let's get started by picking > > a name and a deadline for submissions as soon as possible. > > > Wow! I'm glad to see the response my post has been getting on this topic. > I think we should get started on this right away. If no one has any > objections, I'd like to take Forsetta (a sorely neglected immortal- I've > always been fond of him since X3 was one of the first modules I ever > played) and/or Cretia from that same module. I think that Jenn's idea of > a two week time limit sounds reasonable. Anyone else have any thoughts? Praise the Immortals Above (and Below.... and Inside....) :-) I think we've hit a jackpot, ladies and gents. And since I seem to have at least pushed this snowball in its momentum increasing direction I feel honour bound to chase it. Since I posted my original message, I've been thinking about it, and I think this project might be faster and better handled by several "researchers" and one master archivist. Here's what I'd like to see done: Parties interested in "researching" the basics for an immortal or two (I wouldn't recommend more than that to start -- we don't want to overwhelm ourselves) should post their interest to the list (as Cthulhudrew has seemed to do with Forsetta and Cretia). Once I have confirmed the claim, (at the moment I'm assuming "archive" duty unless someone else wants it) that person has two weeks to collect as much data about the subject(s) as they can. (Two weeks does seem like a good place to start -- if we find its not enough time we can always change it later) List members are free to send both *known* and suplemental information (i.e. what they would consider to be good quality, generic extrapolations and/or suggestions for the final "fleshed out" Immortal) to the researcher (or to me if they can't remember who is doing the research -- I will forward it appropriately.) After the two week period, the researcher should post the information that they have managed to unearth from all the Ancient and Great Libraries of Mystara... Now the "raw data" will be viewed by the other, knowedgable sages of Mystara-L, who will question the data and help by postulating theories on the truth and acceptibility of what has been presented. This debate should continue for at least another two weeks, at which point the original researcher should retreat to his dusty study and compile the strongest trends he and his peers have gleaned from the data. This compilation shoud be reposted in the "standard" format (still to be determined...) for further evaluation. It is possible that more debate will ensue, and if so the process goes in a cycle. Eventually, there will be a concensus and then I will save the final results. And now the researcher can choose a new subject or two if he or she so desires... As Archivist, I promise to make the current file(s) available to anyone requesting them (once they exist...). However, I noticed in the help file from majordomo@io.com that you can request files that are associated with a list (and you can request a list of such files) so perhaps we can maintain the "Mystara-L Cannonical List of Immortals" in this manner.... If there is anyone who has a concern with the above suggestion, or wants to add/subtract from it, feel free. But until such occurs, I will consider the game to be afoot.... Come one, come all, all Immortals treated equally, and all claims are open (except, possibly Forsetta and Cretia -- we should wait and see if Cthulhudrew actually does take up the call to do "research" on them before flooding his mailbox....) That's it folks! - -= strawberryJAMM =- PS: I haven't thought of a really good way to handle non-standard Immortals. I think that this could also be interesting and useful, but I'm just not too sure how to go about it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. PPS: If two people both want to research the same Immortal I will select the person with the earliest time stamp on their message. Its the only way I can think of to be somewhat "fair". If anyone has a better suggestion on how to handle this, please pass it on! Ta! - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield == mott@sfu.ca == SFU Computer Engineering strawberryJAMM == jam@wimsey.com == http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/jamjar.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Black Holes Are Merely Where God Divided By Zero" -- unknown ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 12:34:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Other immortals... > I like the idea of fleshing out the scant "official" descriptions > of the various minor Immortals of Mystara! Let's get started by picking > a name and a deadline for submissions as soon as possible. > > Did anyone else notice that Idris of X11 - Saga of the Shadowlord > was not mentioned in WotI? I think she is the only one that was missed > (anybody notice anybody else?) In X1, there was some deity of the sky who wasn't mentioned again. And Usimagaras,Gorm and Maduara from B4, too. ------------------------------ From: "Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield" Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 22:16:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Other immortals... (fwd) Hello all. The following was sent to me in a private message: Recently, Mischa E Gelman said: > Are we allowed to contribute our own immortla,s or just flesh out the > ones not developed on in the boxed sets, but mentioned in modules? > Also should we use the descriptions from the original boxed set, Hollow > World Immortal-type desciptions, or some other type. Or can we just send > you a basic summary of the immortal and you'll out it in the right form? > I thought I would try to make things a bit clearer about this little project. To begin with, I think that, ultimately, both kinds of immortals should be collected, however, I'd like to start with the pre-existing but underdeveloped ones first, just to get the hang of things. As for how to do the descriptions, while the "research" is being done, (and especially at the beginning) I don't think we need to impose any kind of format. However, once some sort of concensus has been reached, we should pick some standard for the archive to be in (be it an out-and-out copy of a TSR format or something we develop ourselves that provides the most information in a logical and easily understood manner) I suspect that, once we've settled on a standard format, handling new immortals should be simply a matter of presenting them in the proper format and then opening the floor for discussion. Whether the archivist handles the formating and posting, or whether individuals do is really up in the air. One way might get confusing if six or seven people all post different Immortals at the same time. On the otherhand, it makes more work for the archivist (i.e. *me*) if we do it the other way. (not that I really mind...) So, with that said, the sooner we come up with a standard, the better. I don't own the Hollow World set (though I can get access to it if I have to) so I am not as familiar with that format as I could be. Perhaps someone could send me a brief run-down on it or any other possible Description format and I can try to come up with a preliminary standard that I wil post here. I'll try to come up with a suggestion even if I don't hear from anybody. Ta! - -=strawberryJAMM=- - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield == mott@sfu.ca == SFU Computer Engineering strawberryJAMM == jam@wimsey.com == http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/jamjar.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Black Holes Are Merely Where God Divided By Zero" -- unknown ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:49:35 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MYSTARA products > My point with Prince Harald giving away his dominion was simply to point > out that this is not standard practice in Glantri- Nobles must compete > for higher dominions, especially (IMO) an Archduchy. I find that the > designer of ther Glantri boxed set Hmm. I dont have the box (I play DD :) so i dont quite follow. Did Harald give away all the dominions. As in the Almanacs he is allready the prince if Sablestone, and as so also baron of kern, I think, cant be sure of the name as i dont have the books here. And as so, he could not be the Archduke, according to order of radience. But if he did give all dominions away, it would be a bit strange, as he would loose the use of rad... - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: "ZUBE" Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:30:27 -0600, MDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] MYSTARA products The Great Old One wrote: > What does everyone think of the AD&D MYSTARA and RED STEEL supplements? > Are they worth the money? I purchased the Glantri boxed set, and though > there was some useful information in there, it sure didn't justify the > price of the set. Most of the info was verbatim from the Glantri > Gazetteer, and some of it was just ludicrous (Prince Harald _giving away_ > his former archduchy? No self respecting Glantri mage would stand for > that! And the bit about Prince Kol being a Shadowelf!!! Phaugh!). I am > very interested in whether or not the Mark of Amber module is any good, > or for that matter, any of the Red Steel stuff (any new info therein, or > just reprints of the Dragon mag articles?) > Any advice here would be appreciated. Thanks. :) AD&D MYSTARA & RED STEEL PRODUCTS Karameikos Boxed Set (Kingdom of Adventure) Pretty, but not worth buying Glantri Boxed Set (Kingdom of Magic) Same as Karameikos, don't buy it Player's and DM's Survival Packs Once again, some interesting ideas, but not worth the price CD Modules (the ones set in Karameikos) There okay, but . . . Mark of Amber I LIKE it! RED STEEL Boxed Set Incredible! This is a must buy. Probably the best AD&D product I've bought in years. RED STEEL Savage Baronies This is an okay supplement to the box set, If you are a RED STEEL fan, you'll probably like it. Please check out my next post, I have some questions about recent MYSTARA and RED STEEL releases I hope some folks can answer. Chrysdelarius ------------------------------ From: "ZUBE" Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:41:10 -0600, MDT Subject: [Mystara] Recent TSR Product Releases Hey, as a long-time subscriber to DRAGON and a fan of MYSTARA, I am totally confused as to what TSR has released this fall for the MYSTARA and RED STEEL product lines. Has anyone seen these two releases for the RED STEEL campaign? "Orc's Head" and "Red Steel Campaign Themes"? How about these two for the MYSTARA campaign? "The Mighty Argos" and "The Iron Ring"? I think all four products come with an audio CD and should have been released already. Anyone seen them, heard about them, bought them????? I got the titles from Cardyard, an excellent mail order company on the net (cardyard@aol.com). Also, anyone bought Joshuan's Almanac yet? Is it any good? Ann isn't allowed to answer this second question :) I think we should have a party at somebody's pad to mourn the official end of the MYSTARA product line. Of course, all TSR has said so far is that PROBABLY they will discontinue the line. Just like the MIGHT discontinue the Yamara comic strip in DRAGON Magazine. Why can't TSR just say what they are planning? I personally feel a little better PR is in order from our favorite game company. Anyway, sorry about my griping. I have this awful headache . . . Thanks all! Chrysdelarius ------------------------------ From: Electric Monk Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 13:04:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Recent TSR Product Releases On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, ZUBE wrote: > Hey, as a long-time subscriber to DRAGON and a fan > of MYSTARA, I am totally confused as to what TSR > has released this fall for the MYSTARA and RED > STEEL product lines. Join the club.. > I think all four products come with an audio CD > and should have been released already. Anyone > seen them, heard about them, bought them????? I don't think you're going to see them.. Turns out that Mystara is going to be shelved for a while and RED STEEL is going to have its own little nich in the ADND Odessey series.... Although there are some people at TSR who are thinking of reviving Greyhawk in the next couple years.. _________________________________________________________________________ | --==<>==-- | http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd/ | |_______________________________|_________________________________________| | Keeper of the Codex of Infinite Planes | * / \ | | Keeper of the Ravenloft Net Hand Book | /\ * /___\ | | Keeper of the Dark Sun Net Hand Book | / \ * /_____\ | |__________________________________________|______________________________| ------------------------------ From: pierpont@shelley.mitre.org (Bruce Pierpont) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 13:30:34 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Recent TSR Product Releases > On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, ZUBE wrote: > > > Hey, as a long-time subscriber to DRAGON and a fan > > of MYSTARA, I am totally confused as to what TSR > > has released this fall for the MYSTARA and RED > > STEEL product lines. > > Join the club.. > > > I think all four products come with an audio CD > > and should have been released already. Anyone > > seen them, heard about them, bought them????? > > I don't think you're going to see them.. > Turns out that Mystara is going to be > shelved for a while and RED STEEL is > going to have its own little nich in the > ADND Odessey series.... The what? I've been hearing about this Odessey thing alot all the sudden. What is it? ____________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 20:49:40 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Suggestions for a Campaign? Greetings Worthy Readers, as the Keeper of Records in a little Mystara campaign one question popped to my mind recently. Of all the published TSR modules out there, including those from Dungeon Magazine, what would you consider to make for a nice campaign? The modules should fit smoothly to each other and be tied by a common theme or campaign plot. Up to now I used "Matchmakers" from Dungeon Magazine #6 and my own modules to build an interesting mini campaign around the lower level of my "Brotherhood of Thanatos". I thought that possible followups would be B10 (the Brotherhood taking advantage of the Iron Ring's interest in Hutaaka) and B2 (replace the "Cult of Chaos" with Thanatos and you're set for fun). I already planted a "plot seed" for X1 in earlier adventures, as well as for X2, which will probably have no relation to the Brotherhood to give my players something else to think about. What other modules (preferrably low-level) would you consider interesting for a campaign or easily usable for my campaing? B4 might be nice, with the Brotherhood running against the players to get hold of an old artifact below the pyramid. Other ideas? By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: Electric Monk Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 22:52:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Joshuan's Almanac I picked this up tonight and read most of it.. It is very well done, written from the point of view of a halfling and his company.. (hence the Five Shires recieve more than their fair share) It has limited itself to a much smaller region than the previous ones.. (Eastern most Sind to Thyatis) and for the most part is comprehensive..almost like a Volo Guide but covers more than just taverns.. All in all I think it is a shame that Mystara is being shelved this product was above the average.. part of it almost made me feel like I bought a new Gazateer.. oh well.. PS. Is Ann Dupuis on this list? Also is the applicable handle GHOSTGAMES ?? Thanks _________________________________________________________________________ | --==<>==-- | http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd/ | |_______________________________|_________________________________________| | Keeper of the Codex of Infinite Planes | * / \ | | Keeper of the Ravenloft Net Hand Book | /\ * /___\ | | Keeper of the Dark Sun Net Hand Book | / \ * /_____\ | |__________________________________________|______________________________| ------------------------------ From: Wildmule@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 23:51:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Joshuan's Almanac goehrigd@gort.canisius.edu (Electric Monk) asked: >>Is Ann Dupuis on this list?<< Yes, I am. But I was strictly informed that I was not allowed to answer the question "is Joshuan's Almanac any good?" ;-) Thanks for doing it for me! >> Also is the applicable handle GHOSTGAMES << My company's e-mail address is ghostgames@aol.com. I'm using my personal address (wildmule@aol.com) for keeping tabs on the Mystara list. You're welcome to send mail to either account (as is anyone else -- anyone *polite,* that is). Best regards, Ann Dupuis Grey Ghost Press, Inc. ghostgames@aol.com wildmule@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:48:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Re: ADND: Magical Armour On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Brock (the amazing) Wager! wrote: > Is there or will there ever be such a thing as Elven Platemai? I think > that would be rather handy in the case of attack by big nasty things and > all you have is a bunch of wizards... Just a thought. > The All-Healing Immune System In my Mystara campaigns I have created a form of elven field plate known as lamellar. The pieces are formed from hand carved wood, and are of excellent craftsmanship, as well as extremely thin. The parts are then laminated with sap from the elven Tree of Life (a living clan artifact, for those on ADND-L who don't know). The result is a suit of elven sized field plate that weighs as much as balsa wood (about ten pounds), but is as least as strong as steele. These suits are often given at least a +1 enchantment. Considering how little sap a Tree of Life gives off it is not surprising that there are very few of these suits around. And the elves of Mystara are more protective of them than the elves and their chainmail on other worlds. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:52:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] The Index of Stuff As per the FAQ, here is a list of the stuff that people have posted to the MML. If you want a copy of one of these, just drop me an e-line, indicating the section and article number. So, if you wanted the AD&D stats for priests of Alphaks, just send me a letter with "send me P-1" in the body text. If you want all the stuff in a section, please send only a few requests per day. I have to do this manually. Some may notice that there is some stuff missing here. This is due to a hard drive crash I had a while back (damn new computer). Sorry. If you want anything added to this, send it to me or the list. (H) Horoscopes (1) Nuwmont 1014 (T) Titanspace The Mystara Crystal Sphere (1) Bitmap of Titanspace in four uuencoded parts (2) Bitmap of Titanspace in one uuencoded part (3) Bitmap of Titanspace in .bmp format (4) Writeup of Titanspace in .wri format, uuencoded (P) Priests of the Immortals in AD&D Terms (1) Alphaks (2) Alpahtia (3) Asterius (4) Atruaghin (5) Atzenteotl (6) Benekander (7) Calitha Starbrow (8) Diamond (9) Diulanna (10) Djaea (11) Eiryndul (12) Faunus (13) Frey and Freya (14) The Great One (15) Halav (16) Kalim (M) Monsters (1) Skellar (D&D) Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@gems01.kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:59:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: ADND: Magical Armour There is already Elven Platemail. It is located in the complete elven handbook. They are very very elaboratly decorated and only used for ceremonies. Though Fighter/Mages can spell cast in them. Later Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 19:19:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Hollow World Accuracy I would like to know how accurate the relations ar ebetween the Hollow World and the real cultures they're based on(Azcan v. Aztec, Greek vs. Traldar/Milenia, etc) The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, roman nor an empire. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #21 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #22 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Monday, 11 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 022 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 19:35:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Monster-Small Purple Dragon Here is one monster I've created for the OD&D system. Tell me what you think and if I should post other of my creations. Purple Dragon(Small): AC -3 HD 12*** Mv 120'(40') Fly30'(10') Att 2 claws/bite D 2-9/2-9/7-42 No App 1-2(1-2) Save F10 Morale 11 THAC0 9 TrTyp H Align C XPV 3475 The Purple Dragon originated in an area of magical chaos, located in the Northern Tanagoroan Plains(HWorld) It has a natural emnity for all other dragons, which it considersa perversion of thhe true dragon(itself). It will attack all other dragons, regardless of AL on sight. Pearl(?) does not consider purple dragons to be a legitimate part of his dragonic followers. They are solitary creatures, only seen in pairs when mated(not too common for young dragons). Also their relative rarity makes it hard for them to find a mate. (Note:This means you may want to weight the d2 on #App towards 1) They are omnivorous, and are cursed with near-contionual hunger. This behavior of being extreme ravenous makes them impossible to negotiate/talk with. Even flattery doesn't stall them from attack. This also hinders them, in that they are not as likely to plan an attack, but more likely charge onot battle.(You may want to give them a beserk side if they're especially hungry) As their fly-rate indicates, they are a mostly grounded dragon, with very weak wings. This limits the heights in which they live, forcing them to be a plains creature(Note:They like to feed on herds on Auroch) On the average, they are relatively dumb(as dragons go), but they still crave knowledge. Unfortunately, their constant hunger eliminates much of the chance they'll gain this knowledge. Breath Weapon- Cloud of Weakening(50'X40')(D = 1 Pt+ 1-4 Str for 1-6 hrs) Spec Defense-Immune to all other breath weapons(save Immortal Dragons) Always cast spells (2/2/1) Large Purple Dragon-only 1 in existence due to new appearance of Purple Dragons AC -5 HD 18**** THAC0 6 XPV 7525 MV 120'(40') Fly 30'(10') Att 3 D d10+2/d10+2/9D6 No App 1(Unique currently) Save F15 Morale 12 TT 2H,I Align C Same as Small Purple Dragon in behavior, but stlightly smarter(equiv to small green) Breath WEapon Damage(Dimensions same as small)- 1/5 HP(save for 1/10) + 2-8 Str Points(Save for 1-3) Spells(4/4/3/2/2/1) The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, roman nor an empire. ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 00:30:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] My Dead Computer To everyone requesting Mystara stuff, Sorry, but I won't be able to send any of the stuff that people requested from the index for a day or two. My new computer is on the fritz and in the shop, and everything is on it. Hopefully the lovely little virus I have aquired won't have damaged anything. Doing all your computer stuff in a computer lab really bites. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: Rogers Cadenhead Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 10:59:56 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mystara] Vestland inconsistencies I thumbed through Joshuan's Almanac at a bookstore today, and didn't really like the approach it took -- soft on specifics while long on local color. There's a section in the book devoted to "the myth of Hollow World," and I am assuming that it's a case of Joshuan being mistaken, rather than the Hollow World being non-existent. Am I right in that thinking? Mystara seems to be cursed with more inconsistencies than anything I've encountered with TSR. I've got a new campaign in Norrvik, Vestland, and the material published on it is not compatible. Here's a rundown: 1. Crown of Ancient Glory (X13) describes Vestland as a Karameikos-style monarchy with a king, dukes and earls. 2. The Poor Wizard's Almanac I states that the events of X13 took place in 975 AC, and that the Tenitar mentioned in the module became better known as King Harald Gudmundsen (described in the Almanac, set in 1010, as Vestland's king for 35 years). 3. The Northern Reaches gazetter states that the events of X13 take place in 1050, 150 years after the setting of the gazetter. It also states that the Vestland of the year 1000 is a Norse-style country with a king and many jarls who rule clans. The king in it, Harald, is not connected to X13 since it hasn't happened yet. Trying to use the source material and make sense of it leaves my head spinning. Does anyone know why Vestland continuity has been subject to these large changes from year to year? I sense that chronomancers are particularly active here ... Rogers Cadenhead ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:25:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Desert Adventures? I've been wondering what kind of adventures every one else runs in Nithia/Ylaurum and similar desert settings. I like these two settings, but my ideas run dry here. For Milenia or Karameikos, for example, it is easier to create "generic fantasy" adventures, which are easy for simpletons like me. So please send me or post here all your ideas. Thanks. Something you can only hear on Scooby Doo: This mystery is getting mysteriouser every second ------------------------------ From: Rogers Cadenhead Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:21:54 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Desert Adventures? At 11:25 AM 12/11/95 -0500, you wrote: >I've been wondering what kind of adventures every one else runs in >Nithia/Ylaurum and similar desert settings. I like these two settings, >but my ideas run dry here. For Milenia or Karameikos, for example, it is >easier to create "generic fantasy" adventures, which are easy for >simpletons like me. So please send me or post here all your ideas. Thanks. Has Nithia (and the Nithians) been defined in material from TSR? From the Northern Reaches material I've got, the Nithians are mentioned only as a mysterious race that brought magic to the area more than 1,000 years ago and completely died out. I am thinking about making the Nithians the dark elves of Mystara, responsible for powerful items like the Crown of Vestland, and neutral in alignment rather than evil like the drow. One of my player characters is a good dark elf who doesn't know anything about her drow father or his people, so I can make them Nithians and force her to rethink her assumptions about being from an "evil" people. Rogers Cadenhead ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:37:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Desert Adventures? On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Rogers Cadenhead wrote: > > Has Nithia (and the Nithians) been defined in material from TSR? From the There is a Hollow World gazetteer devoted to the Nithian Empire. Mind you, it's the "present-day" Nithia in the Hollow World rather than the one of old, but then things don't change much in the Hollow World. There are also gazetteers for the Milenian Empire and for the Azcans. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ David "Azure" Leland ~~~ azure@cs.oberlin.edu ~~ ~~ Creative Writing, Cognitive Science ~~~ phone/fax: (216) 775-5582 ~~ ~~ Oberlin College ~~~ http://www.oberlin.edu/~dleland ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:55:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Nithia and Subteranean Elves On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Rogers Cadenhead wrote: > Has Nithia (and the Nithians) been defined in material from TSR? From the > Northern Reaches material I've got, the Nithians are mentioned only as > a mysterious race that brought magic to the area more than 1,000 years > ago and completely died out. Nithia has been detailed in several supplements... 1) GAZ2 Emirates of Ylaruam This is where Nithia used to be, until the Immortals saw fit to destroy it. 2) The Hollow World Boxed Set The Hollow World is a repository for cultures that, for one reason or another, have died out on the surface world. When the Immortals destroyed Nithia, they placed a portion of it here. 3) HWR2 Kingdom of Nithia This is a description of present day Nithia within the Hollow World. For the record, Nithia is an Egyptian culture. > I am thinking about making the Nithians the > dark elves of Mystara, responsible for powerful items like the Crown of > Vestland, and neutral in alignment rather than evil like the drow. One of > my player characters is a good dark elf who doesn't know anything about > her drow father or his people, so I can make them Nithians and force her > to rethink her assumptions about being from an "evil" people. Although this means nothing in terms of a persons individual campaign, I would like to point out that there are no Drow on Mystara, officially. There is a race of subteranean elves known as the Shadow Elves. They are very unlike the Drow, in culture as well as appearance (being near albinos, as well as lawful). If you can get it, I recommend GAZ13 The Shadow Elves. An excellent product written by one of TSR's best authors (Carl Sargent). Of course, you may know this already, and just prefer the Drow. Personally, I was quite glad they decided to come up with a fresh take on the underground elves. I'm a fan of Forgotten Realms as well, and have had it up to here [placing hand at eye level] with the Drow. The Drizzt spawned-Drow craze got a bit out of hand, especially people wanting to play good Drow. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Another slave and a victim of fate, another lesson in hate." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Burning Inside ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:02:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] My Computer is Back Up... After several days of repair, I finally have a functional computer again. This means I can start fulfilling peoples requests for Mystara stuff. Unfortunately the requests I have already recieved have been lost. So, here is the index again. If you want something, just drop me an e-line. The "ordering" method is to send me a list of each item, using the category letter, followed by the item number. For example, "P10" would be the AD&D stats for Djaea. Please be patient with this, especially if you want a lot of stuff. This is the week before finals. (H) Horoscopes (1) Nuwmont 1014 (T) Titanspace The Mystara Crystal Sphere (1) Bitmap of Titanspace in four uuencoded parts (2) Bitmap of Titanspace in one uuencoded part (3) Bitmap of Titanspace in .bmp format (4) Writeup of Titanspace in .wri format, uuencoded (P) Priests of the Immortals in AD&D Terms (1) Alphaks (2) Alpahtia (3) Asterius (4) Atruaghin (5) Atzenteotl (6) Benekander (7) Calitha Starbrow (8) Diamond (9) Diulanna (10) Djaea (11) Eiryndul (12) Faunus (13) Frey and Freya (14) The Great One (15) Halav (16) Kalim (M) Monsters (1) Skellar (D&D) ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:18:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Immortal Listing The following is a listing of the primary Immortals of Mystara, along with a couple minor ones thrown in. I wrote this up when converting Mystara over to AD&D. It shows their AD&D alignment, plus what plane they dwell on (a la Planescape). The asteriks designate the Immortals I usually allow PC priests to venerate. The primary reason I am posting this is to get some feedback on the decisions I made, especially on the alignments. Plus, maybe someone else can get some use from it. I ripped this from a word proccessor, so the format is a little weird. If you make the Immortal and his plane bold, with his alignment and sphere normal, it looks pretty good. Al-Kalim Mechanus Lawful Neutral Immortal Patron of Ylaruam Alphaks The Abyss Chaotic Evil Immortal of Destruction, Downfall of Alphatia Alphatia Arcadia Lawful Neutral (Good) Immortal of Peace, Art and Alphatia Asterius* The Outlands Neutral Immortal of Thieves and Merchants Atzanteotl The Abyss Chaotic Evil Immortal of Corruuption, Schattenalfen Elves Calitha Starbrow* Elysium Neutral Good Immortal of Oceans and Sea Elves Chardastes* Elysium Neutral Immortal of Healing Diamond Mechanus Lawful Neutral Immortal of Lawful Dragons Diulanna* The Outlands (Lawful) Neutral Immortal of Willpower Djaea* Elemental Earth Lawful Neutral Immortal of Earth and Planets Eiryndul* Arborea Chaotic Good Immortal of Elven Mishief, Shiye-Lawr Elves Faunus Arborea Chaotic Good Immortal of Sylvan Races Frey and Freya* Arcadia Lawful Neutral (Good) Immortals of Intelligent Warfare The Great One The Outlands Neutral Immortal of All Dragons Halav* Mount Celestia Lawful Good Immortal of Warfare and Weaponsmithing Hel* The Grey Wastes Neutral (Evil) Immortal of Death Ilsundal* Mount Celestia Lawful Good Immortal Patron of Elves Ixiom* The Outlands, Quasi-Elemental Radiance Neutral (Good) Immortal of the Sun and Banishing Darkness Ka* Bytopia Lawful Neutral (Good) Immortal Patron of Lizard Men and Preservation of Species Kagyar* The Outlands Neutral Immortal Patron of Dwarves and Art and Craft Karaash Mechanus and Archeron Lawful Neutral Immortal Patron of Orc Warriors Khoronus* Demi-Plane of Time Lawful Neutral Immortal of Time Korotiku* Limbo Chaotic Neutral Immortal of Cleverness and Trickery Koryis Mount Celestia Lawful Good Immortal of Peace and Prosperity Loki The Abyss Chaotic Evil Immortal of Trickery, Deceit, Evil Mischief Masauwu The Grey Wastes Neutral Evil Immortal of Manipulation Mealiden Starwatcher* Mount Celestia Lawful Good Immortal Patron of Elven Protection Minroth The Outlands Neutral Immortal of Merchants and Minrothad Noumena Mechanus Lawful Neutral Immortal of Puzzles and Mysteries Nyx * Negative Material Neutral Immortal of Undeath Odin* Arcadia (Lawful) Neutral Good Immortal of Wise Leadership Opal The Outlands Neutral Immortal of Neutral Dragons Orcus Carceri (Chaotic) Neutral Evil Immortal of Mass Destruction Ordana* The Outlands Neutral Immortal of Nature Forces Palartarkan* Mechanus Lawful Neutral Immortal of Magic and Alphatian Wizards Pearl Limbo Chaotic Neutral Immortal of Chaotic Dragons Petra* Mount Celestia Lawful Good Immortal of Warriors of Faith Pflarr* Mechanus Lawful Neutral Immortal of Magic and Artificial Life Protius Elemental Water Chaotic Neutral Immortal of the Sea Rad* Mechanus and Prime Material Lawful Neutral (Good) Immortal of Magic and Radiation Rafiel Bytopia Lawful Neutral (Good) Immortal Patron of the Shadow Elves Rathanos* Quasi-Elemental Lightning Chaotic Neutral Immortal of Energy and Invokers Razud The Outlands Neutral Immortal of Self Sufficiency Ssu-Ma Mechanus Lawful Neutral Immortal of Literacy, Scholarship and Writing Talitha* The Grey Wastes Neutral Evil Immortal of Thievery Tarastia* Mechanus Lawful Neutral (Good) Immortal of Justice and Revenge Terra The Outlands Neutral Immortal of Life and it's Creation Thanatos Baator Lawful Evil Immortal of the Destruction of Life Thor* Arcadia Lawful Neutral (Good) Immortal of Warriors and Warrior Codes Tiresias* The Outlands Neutral (Good) Immortal of Music, Entertainment and Prophecy Valerias The Outlands (Chaotic) Neutral Immortal of Love, Romance and Passion Vanya* Mechanus Lawful Neutral Immortal of War and Conquest Zirchev* Elysium Neutral Good Immortal of Forests and Rangers ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:36:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Mystara races for AD&D The following are the write ups for some of the other races I use for my AD&D Mystara campaigns. Most of these have abilities not outlined in their respective monster descriptions. This is becuase I... a) like them better this way, or... b) tried to balance them as player character races. A few notes... 1) The rakasta here is based on the monster description, not the Princess Ark version. I'm not big on the idea of oriental rakasta. 2) I know there is stuff on the lupin in the Red Steele boxed set, but I don't own it. So, I made up my own. Feel free to delete the few Spelljammer references in some of the descriptions. As always, feedback is welcome. Cay-Men (DMR2, pg. 20) Attributes Cay-men receive a +2 bonus on Dexterity, maximum of 19. Because of their size, they roll Strength on 2d2+2, but do not suffer the normal THAC0 penalties for low Strength. Instead, their penalties are -3 for a Strength of 1, -2 for Strength 3, and -1 for Strength 4. They do suffer the normal damage penalties, but their attacks always do at least 1 point of damage. Only cay-men warriors recieve a Hit Point bonus do to high Constitution, and then only as non-warriors. They also have a maximum Intelligence of 16. Advantages Because of their size and skin, Cay-men have a natural AC of 5, plus Dexterity bonus. All armour uses this as a base. Any creature larger than man size receives a -4 to hit a cay-man. All cay-men have infravision at a range of 90 feet and can Move Silently and Hide in Shadows with a 40% chance of success. The exception to this is thieves, whose chances are based on allocation of points. On spelljamming ships it takes ten Cay-men to equal one person, in terms of air consumption. They require one-fourth the food and water of a normal man. Disadvantages Cay-men are unable to wield any weapon larger than Small. For them, knives equate to short swords, daggers to long swords, and short swords to two-handed swords. They are unable to use short or long bows, and can only use hand crossbows. They have their own size bow, which does 1d4 damage and has a range of 3/6/12. Cay-men roll different dice for hit points than other races. Thieves and priests roll 1d4 and warriors roll 1d6. Most Cay-men prefer leather armour, at best. Although armour for them uses less material, it all has to be specially made, so cost is normal. On spelljamming ships it takes six Cay-men to do the job of one man when doing weaponeer and rigging jobs. Classes The cay-men can be warriors, thieves, and priests. Hutaakan (Mystara Monstrous Compendium, pg. 64) Attributes The hutaakan are more an intellectual race rather than physical. They receive a bonus of 1 on their Intelligence and Wisdom, but also have a penalty of 1 on Strength and Constitution. Advantages All Hutaakans have infravision to a sixty foot range. Classes Hutaakan can be warriors, wizards, priests, thieves and bards. Lupin (Mystara Monstrous Compendium, pg. 74) Advantages All lupins have infravison at a sixty foot range. They can detect a werewolf in it's human form with a 90% chance of success. They detect all other lycanthropes at 15%. This check is made at each encounter of the were. Lupin claws are ineffectual as weapons. They can, though, use their jaws to deliver a powerful bite, doing 1d6+1 points of damage. Classes Lupins can be warriors, wizards, priests and thieves. Rakasta (Mystara Monstrous Compendium, pg. 91) Attributes Rakasta have a bonus of 1 on their Dexterity, with a maximum of 18. Rakasta are often distant and untalkative amongst other races. They have a - -1 on Charisma. Advantages Rakasta have an empathic rapport with all types of felines, including magical cats. These will not attack the rakasta or his party unless magically impelled, or the rakasta attacks. If the rakasta's friends attacked the animal, but the rakasta didn't, the feline will attack only his friends. If the party entered the beasts lair, it might be inclined to attack the rest of the party, excluding the rakasta, depending on how they acted. If the rakasta has Animal Training, he gets a +4 to train felines. He can train any cat to be his companion, or even mount, if large enough, and if the DM allows it. The animal will even fight for it's master. If the animal is mistreated, it will leave at the first opportunity. Using the animal as a damage absorber in combat is an example of mistreatment. Rakasta are natural leapers. They can leap up to 10 feet forward or 6 feet up or back. If the Rakasta is carrying more than 40 lbs in encumbrance, these values are halved, and at 80 lbs they are quartered. A Rakasta can attack with each of it's claws, for 1d2 points of damage each. They can also bite for 1d4, although rarely do against dirty or armoured oppenets. A rakasta who forgoes any weapon attacks can attack with both claws and a bite in a single round. Many rakasta also wear kasas on their hands, which are metal war claws. These do 1d6 points and require their own proficiency. A rakasta using kasas on both hands can use both in the same round, as well as bite, at no penalty. Disadvantage Because of their fur, wearing most armour is quite uncomfortable. Most choose to wear nothing heavier than leather, if that. Anything heavier starts to wear on the rakasta; for every two hours of constant use of heavy armour, they recieve a penalty of 1 to their AC, to hit rolls, Dodge saving throws and Dexterity based skills. This tops out at eight hours. These penalties disappear after an hour of rest without the armour. Classes Rakasta can be warriors, wizards, priests and thieves. Thieving Skill Racial Adjustment Skill Cay-Man Hutaakan Lupin Rakasta Pick Pockets -15%* - -5% - Open Locks - - - -5% F/R Traps - -5% - -5% Move Silently +25% - +5% +10% Hide In Shadows +30% - - +5% Detect Noise +10% +5% +10% +5% Climb Walls -20% - - - Read Languages -10% +10% - - Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Cthulhu, eh? I'll try and backstab him" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Rogers Cadenhead Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:52:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithia and Subteranean Elves > Although this means nothing in terms of a persons individual campaign, I >would like to point out that there are no Drow on Mystara, officially. I inherited this campaign from another DM who didn't know that about the drow. I don't think all of Mystara's authors got the word about this -- the writer of the Northern Reaches GAZ refers to "dark elves" in several places. > Of course, you may know this already, and just prefer the Drow. >Personally, I was quite glad they decided to come up with a fresh take on the >underground elves. I'm a fan of Forgotten Realms as well, and have had it up >to here [placing hand at eye level] with the Drow. The Drizzt spawned-Drow >craze got a bit out of hand, especially people wanting to play good Drow. I can't stand the drow as PCs, which is one of the reasons I'm trying to reinvent this one. Too bad the Nithians are still around -- I figured that TSR had to be defining them somewhere. (I may use the idea anyway). One of the neater things about the original AD&D was that it described the drow as "mythical" in the Monster Manual. I thought that was a lot more interesting than when they were proved to exist. For a race that was so hidden as to be considered mythical, they sure pop up a lot today! Rogers Cadenhead ------------------------------ From: "Jennifer (Mott) Merrifield" Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:51:44 -0800 Subject: [Mystara] Cannonical List of Immortals Hey there. My "snowball" seems to have been hit by a blast of heat and melted. All the interest in putting together a "cannonical" list of immortals just went *poof*. Did I scare you all off by suggesting collective research? I only suggested it because I thought that spreading out the work would allow more to get done. However, if people are still interested, but don't want to do the research and whatnot themselves, I'm still willing to give it a go. However, I don't actually own a lot of the Mystara stuff myself -- I just have access to it through one of my Gaming Buddies. So-o-o-o-o.... If I'm going to be putting it all together, I would prefer to have others out there send all the known tid-bits and suggested enhancements/improvements to me. I'd like to hear from people who still think this is worth doing, along with suggestions for which one or two Imortals to start concentrating on. If the snowball has really evaporated (vs. just getting stuck in a small snowbank...) I'll let you know and drop the subject. For those of you interested in collecting "non-standard" immortals, I figure that the best thing to do is just let you send me the information for some kind of standard formatting. Then I'll post them (again, one or two at a time) to the list for commentary. The more information you can give me about the immortal or immortals you wich to have "collected" the better. Thats it. strawberryJAMM ------------------------------ From: "The Dark Elf." Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 13:35:17 +1100 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Desert Adventures? On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Rogers Cadenhead wrote: > At 11:25 AM 12/11/95 -0500, you wrote: > >I've been wondering what kind of adventures every one else runs in > >Nithia/Ylaurum and similar desert settings. I like these two settings, > >but my ideas run dry here. For Milenia or Karameikos, for example, it is > >easier to create "generic fantasy" adventures, which are easy for > >simpletons like me. So please send me or post here all your ideas. Thanks. > > Has Nithia (and the Nithians) been defined in material from TSR? From the > Northern Reaches material I've got, the Nithians are mentioned only as > a mysterious race that brought magic to the area more than 1,000 years > ago and completely died out. I am thinking about making the Nithians the > dark elves of Mystara, responsible for powerful items like the Crown of > Vestland, and neutral in alignment rather than evil like the drow. One of > my player characters is a good dark elf who doesn't know anything about > her drow father or his people, so I can make them Nithians and force her > to rethink her assumptions about being from an "evil" people. > > Rogers Cadenhead look to Hollow World for the Nithians... there they are described, and it tells of their fall from grace by woshiping entropic immortals and leaving the worship of immortals from the sphere of energy.. some of it is mentioned in Ylaurum... but most is in the Hollow world material... the Nithians are humans.. and some decendants still exist.. but there are immortals looking for anyone who knows about the ancient Nithians and removing all knowledge they have on them.. such was the curse that these people caused... all except those in Thothia on the isle of dawn who had remained pure and uncorrupted by the sphere of Entropy.. as for dark elves.. why create them when their are already some there... look to the Shadow Elves, Schattenalfen, or any elf that practices Necromancy, even if only the last two are really evil... anything specific you want to know about them... email me.. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Martin | "Everything has it's own unique beauty...... | |The Dark Elf | when you look at it from the right perspective"| - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #22 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #23 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Saturday, 16 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 023 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "The Dark Elf." Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 13:46:56 +1100 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithia and Subteranean Elves On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > Although this means nothing in terms of a persons individual campaign, I > would like to point out that there are no Drow on Mystara, officially. There > is a race of subteranean elves known as the Shadow Elves. They are very > unlike the Drow, in culture as well as appearance (being near albinos, as > well as lawful). If you can get it, I recommend GAZ13 The Shadow Elves. An > excellent product written by one of TSR's best authors (Carl Sargent). Although the shadow elves are Lawful, they are percieved as Chaotic (Creature catalog) because of their way of life and their laws which don't really have them fit in with other races or cultures too well.. at least that's the easy explination... just blame it on their Immortal who made them such. Gaz 13 is quite good.. I really like teh elven shamen who can cast both magic, and clerical spells. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Martin | "Everything has it's own unique beauty...... | |The Dark Elf | when you look at it from the right perspective"| - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 21:43:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Cannonical List of Immortals On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Jennifer (Mott) Merrifield wrote: > Hey there. > > My "snowball" seems to have been hit by a blast of heat and melted. > All the interest in putting together a "cannonical" list of immortals just > went *poof*. Did I scare you all off by suggesting collective research? Well, it is the week before finals at many schools. We have a lot of people with .edu addresses here on the list. Perhaps they're all studying. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Another slave and a victim of fate, another lesson in hate." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Burning Inside ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 08:51:59 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithia > On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Rogers Cadenhead wrote: > > Has Nithia (and the Nithians) been defined in material from TSR? From the > Nithia has been detailed in several supplements... > 1) GAZ2 Emirates of Ylaruam > 2) The Hollow World Boxed Set > 3) HWR2 Kingdom of Nithia > For the record, Nithia is an Egyptian culture. And then 4) Dawn of the Emperors Boxed set, or what was the name the Kingdom of Thothia is a nation populated by the descendants of nithians. Though not the most evil nithians. the thothians play a big role in the end of the war in WoTI. The thothians are famous of studying fire and death magic, quite an interesting place... - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 01:09:48 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Cannonical List of Immortals On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Jennifer (Mott) Merrifield wrote: > Hey there. > > My "snowball" seems to have been hit by a blast of heat and melted. > All the interest in putting together a "cannonical" list of immortals just > went *poof*. Did I scare you all off by suggesting collective research? > > I only suggested it because I thought that spreading out the work would > allow more to get done. However, if people are still interested, but don't > want to do the research and whatnot themselves, I'm still willing to > give it a go. However, I don't actually own a lot of the Mystara stuff > myself -- I just have access to it through one of my Gaming Buddies. > So-o-o-o-o.... If I'm going to be putting it all together, I would prefer > to have others out there send all the known tid-bits and suggested > enhancements/improvements to me. I'd like to hear from people who still > think this is worth doing, along with suggestions for which one or two > Imortals to start concentrating on. If the snowball has really evaporated > (vs. just getting stuck in a small snowbank...) I'll let you know and > drop the subject. > > For those of you interested in collecting "non-standard" immortals, I > figure that the best thing to do is just let you send me the information > for some kind of standard formatting. Then I'll post them (again, one or > two at a time) to the list for commentary. The more information you can > give me about the immortal or immortals you wich to have "collected" the > better. > > Thats it. > strawberryJAMM > I've been collecting info on Forsett and Cretia, as I said (admittedly there is very little, but I have been supplementing it with some of my own info.) I am nearly ready to post the results, but should I send them to you, or to the list? ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 14:30:28 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithia and Subteranean Elves > I inherited this campaign from another DM who didn't know that about the > drow. I don't think all of Mystara's authors got the word about this -- the > writer of the Northern Reaches GAZ refers to "dark elves" in several > places. These are nordic dark elves. A quick fix-it would be to say that the reference is made to the Shye Lwr Elves from Alphatia, who are often mentioned as 'dark, michevious elves'. > I can't stand the drow as PCs, which is one of the reasons I'm trying to > reinvent this one. Too bad the Nithians are still around -- I figured that > TSR had to be defining them somewhere. (I may use the idea anyway). One > of the neater things about the original AD&D was that it described the drow > as "mythical" in the Monster Manual. I thought that was a lot more interesting > than when they were proved to exist. For a race that was so hidden as to be > considered mythical, they sure pop up a lot today! I have always been a fan of the Shadow Elves. They were what dark elves should be: an isolationist, naive (lack of interaction), pale, good hearing, agrophobic, stone-based culture. I still contend that they would never have even of taken part in the Wrath of Immortals, not without a civil war between the shamans and the spy/military/king. > Rogers Cadenhead HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: "Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield" Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 10:33:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Cannonical List of Immortals Recently, Leroy Van Camp III said: > > On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Jennifer (Mott) Merrifield wrote: > > > My "snowball" seems to have been hit by a blast of heat and melted. > > All the interest in putting together a "cannonical" list of immortals just > > went *poof*. Did I scare you all off by suggesting collective research? > > Well, it is the week before finals at many schools. We have a lot of > people with .edu addresses here on the list. Perhaps they're all studying. Valid Point. Even I'm in the midst of Exams Right now. I guess I'm just too eager to get this (snow)ball rolling again... :-) - -=strawberryJAMM=- - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield == mott@sfu.ca == SFU Computer Engineering strawberryJAMM == jam@wimsey.com == http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/jamjar.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Black Holes Are Merely Where God Divided By Zero" -- unknown ------------------------------ From: "Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield" Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 10:44:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Cannonical List of Immortals Recently, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One said: > > I've been collecting info on Forsett and Cretia, as I said (admittedly > there is very little, but I have been supplementing it with some of my > own info.) I am nearly ready to post the results, but should I send them > to you, or to the list? That's good to know -- I wasn't entirely sure if you were actually going to take that research up. :-) Therefore, ITS OFFICAL -- if you have suggested additions and/or other information on Forsett and Cretia please send them to Cthulhudrew for synthesis and compilation. As for where to send the initial "research" -- on the one hand, if it goes through me, I can limit the number of entity's "officially" under discussion at any given time. On the other hand, its an added level of beaurocracy which may not be necessary. Since this is just starting out, I think that you can just post your research to the list and then collect further comments/suggestions/criticisms etc until we've created something we can more or less agree on. Later, if lots of people take up research, maybe siphoning it through me would be a good idea, but for now, this should be fine. (BTW: I'm glad my snowball was only caught in a snowbank....) - -=strawberryJAMM=- - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield == mott@sfu.ca == SFU Computer Engineering strawberryJAMM == jam@wimsey.com == http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/jamjar.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Black Holes Are Merely Where God Divided By Zero" -- unknown ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 14:24:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] The Rakasta in D&D terms Here are the D&D stats for the Rakasta, at Mischa's request. I don't have any of the other races in D&D terms. A few notes... 1) I always disliked the extremely low racial limitations on non-humans in D&D. Oh, sure, they seemd fine in the Expert set, but by the time the Master set came out, and humans could reach 36th level, they seemed silly. So, in my D&D games all non-humans can advance up to 20th level. 2) This class has never been play tested, but it seems quite balanced to me. 3) Again, this class is based on the monster description, not the oriental rakasta from the Princess Ark articles. The only aspect I keep is that a bunch of rakasta live on Matera (Myoshima). 4) The spellcasting reference is for those who use the rules out of the Creature Crucible series. I have my own version of such rules, and may post them if anyone cares. 5) Feedback is, as always, welcome. _Rakasta_ Prime Requisite Dexterity Experience Point Bonus 5% for Dexterity 13-15, 10% for Dexterity 16-18 Hit Dice 1d6+1 per level up to 9th. +1 per level after, with no Constitution adjustment Level Limit 20th Level Armour Leather only, no shield Weapons One handed melee, plus any bow or crossbow Combat Tables As Fighter. They do not get the Fighter combat options. Languages Myoshiman and Thyatian Special Abilities Move Silently and Hide in Shadows These work the same as the Thief abilities of the same name (Page 22 of the Cyclopedia). Due to the Rakasta's feline heritage, though, they improve faster than a thief. Enhanced Senses This works in similar ways as the Thief ability Hear Noise, except that it also works with sight and smell. A Rakasta with the Tracking skill who succeeds with this ability gets a +2 to track, from following the smell as well as tracks. Ambidexterity All Rakasta can use both hands equally well. When using a weapon in each hand, the penalty is dropped to -2/-2 instead of -2/-4. Feline Empathy Rakasta have an empathic rapport with all types of felines, including magical cats. These will not attack the Rakasta or his party unless magically impelled, or the Rakasta attacks. If the Rakasta's friends attacked the animal, but the Rakasta didn't, the feline will attack only his friends. If the party entered the beasts lair, it might be inclined to attack the rest of the party, excluding the Rakasta, depending on how they acted. If the Rakasta has Animal Training, he gets a +4 to train felines. He can train any cat to be his companion, or even mount, if large enough, and if the DM allows it. The animal will even fight for it's master. If the animal is mistreated, it will leave at the first opportunity. Using the animal as a damage absorber in combat is an example of mistreatment. Leaping Rakasta are natural leapers. They can leap up to 10 feet forward or 6 feet up or back. These can be modified by the characters Strength adjustment, in feet. If the Rakasta is carrying more than 800 cn in encumbrance, these values are halved, and at 1,600 they are quartered. Natural Attacks A Rakasta can attack with each of it's claws, for 1d2 points of damage each. They can also bite for 1d6+1 points, but because bathing is rare amongst monsters, they rarely do this. Spellcasting Rakasta can advance up to twelfth level as a wizard, or eighth level as a shaman. Rakasta shamans cannot cast druid spells. Hit Hide in Move Heightened Level Experience Dice Shadows Silently Senses 1 0 1 20 25 30 2 1,400 2 25 30 35 3 2,800 3 30 35 40 4 5,600 4 35 40 45 5 11,200 5 40 45 50 6 22,400 6 45 50 54 7 52,500 7 50 54 58 8 105,000 8 54 58 62 9 200,000 9 58 62 66 10 300,000 9+1 62 66 70 11 400,000 9+2 66 70 74 12 600,000 9+3 70 74 78 13 800,000 9+4 74 78 81 14 1,000,000 9+5 78 81 84 15 1,200,000 9+6 81 84 87 16 1,400,000 9+7 84 87 90 17 1,600,000 9+8 87 90 92 18 1,800,000 9+9 90 94 94 19 2,000,000 9+10 94 96 96 20 2,200,000 9+11 98 98 98 Attack Rank J 2,400,000 Attack Rank K 2,600,000 Attack Rank L 2,800,000 Attack Rank M 3,000,000 ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 19:45:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] immortals and their planes This is concerning a previous post about immortals and their home planes. Although I think the list was pretty good (and I'm sure that all of us could argue forever over which gods should be on which plane), I do feel strongly about a couple of gods/home planes. First of all, I must insist that Valerias' home plane is Arborea. Reasons: 1) It's a Chaotic plane (to match Valerias' chaotic alignment) 2) Other chatic gods of love and beauty from different worlds claim Arborea as their own. Examples: Sune, Aphrodite, Hanali Celanil Secondly, it seems that the list omits several planes; it also has the tendency to lump alot of the Immortals onto a couple of the planes. I guess this division was done by simply looking at their alignment and choosing the plane that it most closely matches instead of considering both alignment and _personality_ (something that figures just as or more prominently than alignment in such a weighty decision). Here are some more changes, and explanations where necessary: Atrughin: the Demiplane (Upper World and Lower World) --location of American Indian pantheon (see Planescape Boxed Set = PBS) Benekander: during Wrath of Immortals: wandering after WoI: Outlands Diamond: Arcadia Diulanna: the Beastlands Djaea: Mechanus --married to Khoronus Faunus: the Beastlands Frey & Freyja: Ysgard --location of the norse Pantheon (see PBS) The Great One: the Beastlands Ilsundal: Arborea --location of the Elven Pantheon (see PBS) Kagyar: Arcadia --location of the other dwarven gods (see PBS) Karaash: Acheron --location of the orc pantheon (PBS) Khoronus: Mechanus --married to Djaea Loki: Pandemonium (or Ysgard...ya' know, Norse pantheon (PBS)) Mealiden Starwatcher: Arborea --Elven pantheon (PBS) Odin: Ysgard - --Norse Pantheon (PBS) Opal: the Beastlands Pearl: Carceri Tarastia: Mount Celestia Terra: Elemental Plane of Earth --her mortal form was that of an earth elemental (WoI) Thor: Ysgard --Norse pantheon (PBS) Valerias: Arborea --see above paragraph Vanya: Ysgard ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 22:39:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] immortals and their planes On Tue, 12 Dec 1995, Mistress wrote: > This is concerning a previous post about immortals and their home planes. > Although I think the list was pretty good (and I'm sure that all of us > could argue forever over which gods should be on which plane), I do feel > strongly about a couple of gods/home planes. > First of all, I must insist that Valerias' home plane is Arborea. Reasons: > 1) It's a Chaotic plane (to match Valerias' chaotic alignment) > 2) Other chatic gods of love and beauty from different worlds claim Arborea > as their own. Examples: Sune, Aphrodite, Hanali Celanil > > Secondly, it seems that the list omits several planes; it also has the > tendency to lump alot of the Immortals onto a couple of the planes. I guess > this division was done by simply looking at their alignment and choosing > the plane that it most closely matches instead of considering both > alignment and _personality_ (something that figures just as or more > prominently than alignment in such a weighty decision). A few notes... 1) When converting D&D alignemnts over to AD&D I took the liberty of skewing them to my viewpoint. On my list Valerias is Neutral, with Chaotic tendencies. I see her as a "people person", and Arborea is a place of nature. The Outlands seemed more fitting. 2) When assigning planes I did make alignemnt more of a priority, but this was intentional. The way I view such things the matching of planes is more important. Where an Immortals personality comes to light is its realm. > Here are some more changes, and explanations where necessary: > > Atrughin: the Demiplane (Upper World and Lower World) > --location of American Indian pantheon (see Planescape Boxed Set = PBS) There is no Atruaghin Clans on my Mystara, and thus no Atruaghin. > Benekander: during Wrath of Immortals: wandering > after WoI: Outlands I did not have Benekender; his origins lay in the Immortals Wrath adventure, which I have never, nor will I probably ever, implemented. > Diamond: Arcadia I listed Diamond as Lawful Neutral. This originates from the Mystara MC, where it discussess how Mystaran dragons are more concerned with law and Chaos than Good and Evil. This, of course, originates from OD&D's alignment system. It was a nice twist, so I kept it. And since Diamond is the Immortal of lawful dragons, the plane of ultimate law seemed apropriate, rather than a plane of good. > Djaea: Mechanus > --married to Khoronus I added to Djaea's sphere of influnce in my campaigns, making her the Immortal of earth. This is why I listed the Plane of Earth. As for Khoronus being here mate, I think where her realm is, and where she spends a lot of her time can be two different things. > Faunus: the Beastlands Arborea is a fun loving nature, nature filled sorta place. Sounds about right for a chaotic kinda guy like Faunus. > Frey & Freyja: Ysgard > --location of the norse Pantheon (see PBS) A note here: Not combining the Norse Immortals with the Norse Gods was intentional . They are not the same, and there is a rivalry between the two groups in my campaigns. The Norse Gods are outraged that such high minded "Immortals" (ooh, I'm sooo scared) would take their names and likenessess! > The Great One: the Beastlands I think the Great One's true Neutrality is much more at home on the outlands. > Ilsundal: Arborea > --location of the Elven Pantheon (see PBS) Similar to the Norse gods, I did not group the elven Immortals with the elven gods. Although there relations are excellent, they do not consider each other as part of their clique. > Kagyar: Arcadia > --location of the other dwarven gods (see PBS) "What! Kagyar, dwell with us? By the anvil, he is not a god! Hades, he is not even a dwarf! It tears my beard the the poor dwarves of that backwater world have to worship something who used to be an orc! OK, maybe he wasn't an orc, but close enough!" > Karaash: Acheron > --location of the orc pantheon (PBS) See the Norse, elvish and dwarven references. Again, there is generally a rivalry between gods and Immortals in the planes. > Khoronus: Mechanus > --married to Djaea The Demi-plane of Time seemed particualry apropriate for Khoronus. Of course, if one uses the new Chronomancer, this wouldn;t work quite the same... > Loki: Pandemonium (or Ysgard...ya' know, Norse pantheon (PBS)) > > Mealiden Starwatcher: Arborea > --Elven pantheon (PBS) > > Odin: Ysgard > --Norse Pantheon (PBS) See the... you know the drill. > Opal: the Beastlands See the part on Diamond for why I chose the alignment I did. Outlands sound right to me. > Pearl: Carceri Again, I have Pearl as Chaotic Neutral, not evil. > Tarastia: Mount Celestia Looking back, I agree on this, or perhaps Arcadia. > Terra: Elemental Plane of Earth > --her mortal form was that of an earth elemental (WoI) Yup. This was a mistake later corrected (on my hardcopy), but never in the original file. > Thor: Ysgard > --Norse pantheon (PBS) Blah blah blah... see above... > Vanya: Ysgard I see Vanya as a Lawful person, and Ysgard is such a chaotic place... Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:16:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Monster - Starglow Here is another creature I have created: Starglow AC 2 HD 10**** Mv 90'(30') Att 1 touch or spell;aura D d10+shock or by spell effect;special No App 1(d4) Saveas MU15 Morale 11 TType A Intelligence 14 Align C XPV 4000 THAC0 10 Spells as MU5(2/2/1) Shocking Touch - save(wands) or stunned for 2d10 rnds Aura of light - Within 10' must save(spells) or blinded for 2d4 rnds Starglows were magical creations of a crazy Schattenalfen Mage many years ago. She created them in order to strike at the Kogolors(this was when the Schattenalfen 1st arrived in the Hollow World). They were mostly destroyed when the Kogolors reclaimed the land under Denwarf, but some still exist. They live in the back country of the Kogolor Mts and in nearby caverns. They require no feed or air, and do not have a means to reproduce. So the only starglows around are the original ones. They appear as 7' tall glowing humans. They have a great animosity to many creatures:the dwarves whom they were invented to destroy, the shadow elves who forced them into a losing battle(and all elves as a result) and the practitioners of magic who they feel as betrayers to them, who create beings with no regard for their creations. Starglows tend to be reclusive, due to their limited number. The fact they require no food helps them in their quest to stay alvie, as they never have to venture into populated lands(though they sometimes go just to kill mages, elves and dwarves) Something you can only hear on Scooby Doo: This mystery is getting mysteriouser every second ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:17:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Monster - Swamp Thing Yet another of my creature creations(only two more left as of now: Swamp Thing AC -2 HD 14** Mv 60'(20') At Touch/spit D d8/special No 1(d4) Sv F14 Mrle 9 TType I Align C XPV 3500 THAC0 8 +1 weapon needed to hit Spit - corrosive acid (4d10 to bare skin):destroys armor(+1 permanent to AC) chance of succesful corrosion:90% for normal armor, 60% for +1, 40% for +2 and 10% less for each following plus Blunt Weapons do 1/2 Damage Edged Weapons divide it into 2 equal strength halves and do no damage(1st hit into HD 7,HD7 with HP equally split second hit into HD4,HD4,HP equally split,etc) Fire does double damage Cold slows Lightning does 1/2 damage Live in Swamps(duh) Surprise on 5d6 when hiding in Swamp;3d6 normal in swamp;2d6 in darkish lands;1d6 in open Swamp Things are predators that dwell in the Malpheggi Swamps. They are very territorial, and are often problems for the Lizard Men clearing those lands. They attack all humanoids entering their lands, but ignore others. They allow animals, insects and plants to live freely but allow no sentient creature into their lands(which tend to be small pockets of swamp) Something you can only hear on Scooby Doo: This mystery is getting mysteriouser every second ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 22:32:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Level 1 spells Did I post these yet?(If I did, sorry, but I'm confused since finals - I forgot a library book overdue annd some more junk) Here are the new level 1 spells from the spellbook of Katiko, mage of Tanagoro: Fog Range:30' Effect:Fog Cloud 30' radius Duration:1 turn/ level of caster All in the fog cloud are at 1/2 movement for the duration of the spell. They have 20' visibility as well. And all in the cloud get a -1 to hit rolls, -2 for missile weapons. There is no saving throw. Combust Range:60' Effect:causes 1 item to combust Duration:1 rnd/level of caster Causes a combustile object to rapidly heat up and start to burn. Anyone touching it takes damage by the chart below. The fire does not spread to other items due to its magic nature. 1st rnd 1 Point of Damage 2nd rnd 2 Points of Damage 3rd rnd 4 Points of Damage item may no longer be useable if a critical part has been burnt 4th rnd 8 Points of Damage 5th rnd 16 Points of Damage item is no longer useable - repairs are up to DM 6th rnd 4 Points of Damage 7th rnd 1 Point of Damage item is destroyed Note:this spell does not affect magical items, even if combustible ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #23 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #24 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Friday, 5 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 024 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield" Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:00:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] E-Mail Change... Hello all. To anyone who is doing or planning on doing research on the under developed Immortals, and who wants to send anything to me, Please note that my university account will be deactivated for four months as I will be working during the next semester. I do, however, have a "private" account with a local ISP (as shown in my signature file) and have just subscribed to the list with that address while unsubscribing this one. Please be sure to use the other address, which is jam@wimsey.com, from now on. Thanks, Jenni Merrifield (aka strawberryJAMM) - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield == mott@sfu.ca == SFU Computer Engineering strawberryJAMM == jam@wimsey.com == http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/jamjar.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Black Holes Are Merely Where God Divided By Zero" -- unknown ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 18:01:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Administrative Struff Just wanted to let everyone know that your firendly Admin is going to be unavailable from the 22nd through the 29th, so if you have any questions, request, whater, send them before or after this date. For those who have requested stuff from the index, sorry for the delay. This is finals week, and I have been studying. I should have that stuff out to you before I leave. Thanks. owner-mystara-l Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:27:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Heckuva alot of spells A few more spells from the spellbook of Katiko, Tanagaroan Mage(Note:Some were picked up in Blackmoor, so not all are effective in the Hollow World) Wall of Air -- 3rd level spell Range:60' Duration: 1 month or until dispelled Effect:Creates 10X10X10 wall of wind Any who attempt to walk through the wall are pushed back if they do not realize its presence The wall blends in well with almost all backgrounds, and so is hard to detect(it does block prevailing wind currents from passing through though, so an attentive party may realize the change) Movement through the wall is at 1/4 of the normal movement rate The wall need not rest on solid ground, but it must originate from a point 60' or less from the caster Those moving through the wall have -4 to all saves and +2 to AC as they lose some of the control of their movement. Missile attacks are impossible into or from within the wall Turn Dead -- 4th level spell Range:60' Duration:Instantaneous Effect:Turns undead Turns undead at clerical level equal to mages' spell level. Example:7th level mage casts as 4th level cleric,9th level mage casts as 5th level cleric,etc The meximum for an elf then is equivalent to 5th level cleric, max for magic-user is equivalent to 9th level cleric Wall of Pain -- 4th level spell Range:60' Duration:Till Dispelled Effect:Creates 10X10X2 brightly glowing(bright yellow) wall All who pass through the wall take d10 damage and are -2 to hit for 1 turn due to effects of widespread pain Wall gives off aura of evil - detectable once within 10' Minor Immunity -- 5th level spell Range:Self Duration:1 turn/level of caster This spell gives immunity to all 1st-level magic The recipient takes 1/2 effect from 2nd and 3rd level spells(if applicable) 4th level spells and higher have full effect This spell does not defend vs. clerical powers, only mage-oriented(includes wikka, sprites, etc) The caster is immune to normal missiles for the duration of the spell(a missile being at largest a crossbow bolt) The immunity can be dispelled for 1 rnd, and brought back the next Pandemonium -- 5th level spell Range:40' Duration:1 rnd/ level Effect:Creates havoc within 3' radius of spell center All in radius must save vs. spells immediately or suffer effects as noted below. The save is 1-time and if failed the affected one suffers the full duration Any entering the area the spell was cast at after the original effect must roll a save at +5(even the caster) to avoid the effect Effects change each rnd and are determined by a roll on the table from the confusion spell Blast -- 6th level spell Range:180' Duration:Instantaneous Effect:fires 1 bolt of energy at target Damage equals d10/level of caster The bolt is not electrical energy, but magic energy and so electric-based creatures are affected The target may save for 1/3 damage The bolt can pass through most substances, but is blocked by rock MageWeb -- 6th level spell Range,Duration,Effect:Same as Web(2nd level spell) This spells is identical to web with the following changes: The web can only be broken by silver-edged or blunt weapons -- non-blunt weapons that are magical or nonmagical,nonsilver do not affect the web Those caught within cannot use any magical powers, even innate ones Druidic and clerical magic are not affected, only mage-based Sandstorm ---- 7th level spell Range:240' Duration:d4 rnds Effect:whips up dust particles in area, if any The damage of the spell is dependant on the amount of dust(/dirt/sand/salt or other small natural materials) present Anyone caught within 60' of center take damage as specified Base Damage id d4/rnd/level of caster Save for 1/2 Damage each rnd in range of storm This spell does no damage to druids or animals or plants or non-living materials This spell only hurts humanoids and humans and monsters who do not have druidic ability Base Damage is doubled in desert, halved on grassland(where the dirt is not as open), is useless on water(water considered 1 large piece, not many particles), others are up to DM depending on amount of dust,etc present This spell only works if the caster is outdoors Ron Luciano: I remember one time Catfish Hunter moved the team's right fielder, Roy White, about 7 steps closer to the foul line.Then, after thinking about it, he moved him 3 steps back towards center.Unfortunately,the batter hit a tremondous home run - but it did go directly over Roy White's head. ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:28:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] King Vampire(Monster) Here is another creature I've invented(thanks to Moria for the idea): King Vampire AC 0 HD 16**** Mv 120'(40') Fly 180'(60') Att Touch Damage 2d10+2 level drain(note: if you dislike the level drain concept, substitue the equivalent in your campaign. I'm just using standard DND terms so it's easier to understand) No.App 1-2(1-2) Save as C32 Morale 12 TrType H,F Alignm C XPV 6250 Intell Base 16 A King Vampire is created when a vampire defeats a mortal more than 2X their level(or HD)-- the king vampire rises after 1 month and immediately gains control over its killer(there is nothing the vampire can do to stop this) King Vampires do not require coffins King Vampires have none of the weaknesses of normal vampires(or Velya) Charm Gaze is saved at at -2 These creatures regenerate 3 HP / rnd(and can regenerate from any attack) They can cast the following # of spells an infinite # of times/day(but only 1nce a rnd and in place of normal attacks - save is as vs. MU24): Hold Person, Cause Fear, Blind -- All of these spells are area effect(use an area you feel is reasonable - I think fireball radius is good) A +1 weapon is needed to injure this undead They are turned as Nightshades King Vampires die permanently if reduced to 0 HP These creatures have standard undead immunities King Vampires do not get the shapechange of standard vamps Changes to summoning:same as Vampire, but can also summon d2 Vampires, d2 Nosferatu or d2 Velya from within 1 mile(Note:The creatures will not go to illegal terrain - Vamps over water or Velya out of water) Ron Luciano: I remember one time Catfish Hunter moved the team's right fielder, Roy White, about 7 steps closer to the foul line.Then, after thinking about it, he moved him 3 steps back towards center.Unfortunately,the batter hit a tremondous home run - but it did go directly over Roy White's head. ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 07:48:28 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mystara] Something Suspicious Just returned from Cthulhumas in Seattle and found tons and tons of new subscriptions notices in my mailbox. Many seem to be from AOL people. The number is very disproportionate to the usual rate, and I believe something is afoot here. If you are on this list now, and don't wish to be, or don't even know what is going on, drop me a line and I'll get you off of this. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: s20034@hp.rmc.ca (s20034@sv2.rmc.ca) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 09:04:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Something Suspicious I know what has been going on recently in terms of posting to the group, however it has never been much use to me therefor you might as well pull me off the list to help make room for others D.G. Werner "Due to budgetary constraint, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off!" "A reminder for those of you in snow country: Do not eat yellow snow" "Sleep!?!? Who needs sleep? I slept two months ago!!!" ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 09:56:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] "Get me off this crazy thing!" After writing my post on the suspicious nature of the recent glut of subscriptions I realized I may have a huge backlash of people who were subscribed by someone else, and wants off. So, here are the simplified instructions so everyone can do it themselves... Send mail to... majordomo@io.com ...with the following line in the main text... unsubscribe mystara-l ...and that's it. If it don't work, send mail to... owner-mystara-l@io.com ...asking for help. Thanks. owner-mystara-l Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: "The Dark Elf." Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 20:36:52 +1100 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] "Mystara Books" Has anyone out there read the mystara books.... (Dragonlord - Dragonking of Mystara, Dark Knight of Karameikos) I found both books interesting... but they have things that could never fit into the D&D game... the Mystara series seems to hold true most of the time while the dark knight seems to have goon of in another direction replacing immortals with the AD&D demon in some lower hell plane.... what does anyone else think about this?? - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Martin | "Everything has it's own unique beauty...... | |The Dark Elf | when you look at it from the right perspective"| - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: John Yu Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 04:53:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] "Mystara Books" MINOR SPOILERS!!!!! Well, I like the Dragonlord series so far, despite a few minor plot holes. My biggest complient about that trilogy is the wait between the books. The Dark Knight is a bit too typical of a fantasy novel for me. Other than the mention of fraction between Traldaran and Thyatian, there were not that much place the setting at Mystara. The demon (oops, fiend:) appeared in the end of the book seems a little out of the place. Also in the book, the rift between the Thyatian and Traldaran in Karameikos seems to be much greater than what is stated in other materials, such as the Gazeteers. Although, this is porbably more realistic. Finally, I don't think it is possible for mercenary band of that size to wondering around in Karameikos or most other nations. I doubt the local authority will allow that many armed men walk around without restrictions. > > Has anyone out there read the mystara books.... (Dragonlord - Dragonking > of Mystara, Dark Knight of Karameikos) > I found both books interesting... but they have things that could never > fit into the D&D game... the Mystara series seems to hold true most of > the time while the dark knight seems to have goon of in another direction > replacing immortals with the AD&D demon in some lower hell plane.... > > what does anyone else think about this?? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > | Martin | "Everything has it's own unique beauty...... | > |The Dark Elf | when you look at it from the right perspective"| > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 13:13:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects > The Mystara FAQ > This shouldn't hard (hopefully). Whenever someone comes up with a > good question, we'll add it. I will probably start work on this before > too long. Like when? This was a few months ago. > New Gazetteers > Wouldn't it be nice to have Gazetteers on some of the countries that > T$R gave us little detail of? The two that spring to mind are Wendar and > Heldann Freeholds. > Writing complete Gazetteers would be no small feat, but it could be a > group project. How about one for the Kogolor dwarves or krugel orcs? I don't think the NW sector of HW is well-developed. > New Races > Any one who has perused the pages of the Creature Catalog or the > Mystara Monstrous Compendium can probably find at least a dozen races that > would be suitable for PC's. For example, the rakasta is a standard race > in my own campaigns (although different than the way they are presented in > the Princess Ark series.) > Whether in AD&D or D&D format, such new races would be nice. So far you're the only one's whos posted these. Any one else have ideas? > Specialty Priests of the Immortals > For those who play in Mystara using AD&D, having the information on > specialtiy priests would be damn handy. I have made up a few myself, and > will submit them. Bruce? Any plans on finishing up the immortals? Sorry for the response to an old post, but I want to see some answers to these. That tidalwave will destroy human life across the face of the globe-Optimus, explaining why said tidalwave must be stopped It won't do us any good either -Ironhide,giving a better reason ------------------------------ From: Sir George Anonymous Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:09:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Various Hi all, I'm back, for the time being. Sorry to be out of touch for 2-1/2 months, but last semester was a killer. Hopefully, this semester will be a bit easier. I felt the need to reply to several items that have been posted over the last month. Note that I haven't had time to do any serious research into any of these things, they are just off-the-cuff responses. RE: The fog and combust spells posted by Mischa E Gelman Are these designed to be D&D or AD&D spells? I would guess D&D because AD&D already has similar spells. Perhaps you might want to compare yours to the AD&D versions. (Not that there's anything wrong with what you posted, just a suggestion.) RE: The discussion on immortals and their planes posted by Leroy Van Camp III and Mistress 1) How well do these ideas (either set) mesh with the immortals posted by Bruce Pierpoint? (I haven't checked yet.) 2) Leroy: I thought that the norse immortals were formerly avatars of the norse gods in your campaign. Wouldn't that create even more complications for them? Also, how does this fit in with your dimensional boundry theory, or have you scrapped that? RE: The cannonical list of immortals idea posted by strawberryJAMM I see a problem with limiting the discussion to two weeks. Many of the people on this list receive it in digest format and may miss much of the discussion before the deadline. Perhaps four weeks of discussion would be better to accomodate those people. RE: The collection of data on Forsetta and Cretia by Cthulhudrew How is it coming? Did you pass the info on to strawberryJAMM? Will it make the list soon? RE: The Mystara web site Ann, what is the legal status of the Mystara web site? Have you heard anything from TSR? RE: The AD&D Odessey series Bruce Pierpoint asked about the AD&D Odessey series a while back. Since I saw no response, and Red Steel is going to be part of it, I will ask again: What is it? I've had to stop reading r.g.f.d, and I feel a bit out of touch. ------------------------------ From: Sir George Anonymous Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 08:54:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priests RE: The listings of specialty priests of the immortals Nice job on the specialty priests. They seem to be fairly well balanced. I guess the Skills and Powers book has a use after all. ;) I have a few questions, maily for Bruce Pierpoint, but anyone is free to answer. Do you postlate that the immortals have only specialty priests (SP), or do they also have clerics If they have clerics too, how do they get along with the SP's? Have you thought about the hierarchies of the various sects? Where do clerics and SP's stand in relation to eachother within their hierarchy? How do druids, paladins, and rangers fit into the picture? What about other classes (e.g. thieves in the temple of Asterius, illusionists in the temple of Korotiku, etc.)? Do different races and/or countries have different church hierarchies, or are they all combined into one? Do different races/countries have different specialty priests? (I would think that dwarf and human temples, priests, and ceremonies devoted to Kagyar would be vastly different from eachother.) What about ceremonial dress? What are the goals of the church? Who are the major players within the church hierarchy? Who are the allies/enemies of the church? What role do adventurers play in furthering the goals of the church? What responsibilities do followers of a particular immortal have (tithes, holy days, rituals, ceremonies, etc.)? Are there particular non-weapon proficiencies that are required or suggested for parishoners and/or clerics, et.al.? Do clerics, paladins, rangers, druids, or other classes need to take a specific kit in order to be a part of the hierarchy of a particular church? Just a few ides to think about. Have fun, >>> Sir George Anonymous <<< ************************************************************************** ** ** ** There are no Thyatians here. There are no Traladarans. There are ** ** only citizens of Karameikos. - King Stefan Karameikos, AC 1012 ** ** ** ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:48:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Specialty Priests > I guess the Skills and Powers book has a use after all. It can also be used as a paperweight. > Do you postlate that the immortals have only specialty priests (SP), or > do they also have clerics If they have clerics too, how do they get along > with the SP's? Check the Nithia reference book. They have specialty clerics for DND and these are considered more devout believers. Only the major sects have them. And saome clerics are ostracized for going vs. this(the phraoah's vizier is a non-speicalist cleric of Rathanos and is supposedly much looked-down on for this by the main church of Rathanos,) > How do druids, paladins, and rangers fit into the > picture? They don't. Rangers don't exist in DND. Druids are probably only in woodland sects, where they are dominant. Paladins are simply fighters with strong faith-Tarastia,Thor, Diulanna, many other deities seem paladin-friendly. Thor would probably treat them as better than priests due to fighting skills, while a Koryis would have little use for them due to their peace-belief. > What about other classes (e.g. thieves in the temple of > Asterius, illusionists in the temple of Korotiku, etc.)? People are free to worship as they wish, but some churches attract certain types in greater numbers and influence. Pflarr may be nearly 1/2 magi and Korotiku 1/2 thief. But I think the head is 99% of the time a cleric. > Do different > races and/or countries have different church hierarchies, or are they all > combined into one? Yes and No. The Tarastian Branch of Milenia is an offshoot of the Jennite branch. The Tlatzanteotl(sp?) church of Azca always fights with that of Schattenlfen lands. > Do different races/countries have different specialty > priests? (I would think that dwarf and human temples, priests, and > ceremonies devoted to Kagyar would be vastly different from eachother.) Yep-and a country such as Milenia does not have enough Tastarians to have spec. priests(see earlier Nithia note) Few deities will have spec. priests in 2 or more lands(Halav,Petra,Atztanteotl,Ka.????) > What about ceremonial dress? Depends on which church. > What are the goals of the church? Tarastia of Milenia-maintain justice, forge diplomatic ties with Jennites. All depends on the church. > What role do adventurers play in furthering > the goals of the church? There were some ideas in the complete priest handbook-check it out. > Are there particular non-weapon proficiencies that are required or > suggested for parishoners and/or clerics, et.al.? See the Hollow World Reference books for good examples. > Do clerics, paladins, > rangers, druids, or other classes need to take a specific kit in order to > be a part of the hierarchy of a particular church? That's ADND, not ODND. That tidalwave will destroy human life across the face of the globe-Optimus, explaining why said tidalwave must be stopped It won't do us any good either -Ironhide,giving a better reason ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 18:25:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > New Gazetteers > > Wouldn't it be nice to have Gazetteers on some of the countries that > > T$R gave us little detail of? The two that spring to mind are Wendar and > > Heldann Freeholds. > > Writing complete Gazetteers would be no small feat, but it could be a > > group project. > > How about one for the Kogolor dwarves or krugel orcs? I don't think the > NW sector of HW is well-developed. I believe someone was already working on Skothar? Davania was glossed over briefly in Champions of Mystara. Wendar would be nice to hear more about as well as the rest of the HW. > > New Races > > Any one who has perused the pages of the Creature Catalog or the > > Mystara Monstrous Compendium can probably find at least a dozen races that > > would be suitable for PC's. For example, the rakasta is a standard race > > in my own campaigns (although different than the way they are presented in > > the Princess Ark series.) > > Whether in AD&D or D&D format, such new races would be nice. > > So far you're the only one's whos posted these. Any one else have ideas? > Rakasta, Tortles, and Lupins are detailed in the Red Steel boxed set. The lizardman of the savage coast were in Dragon #185. Phanatons were in Dragon #188. All 4 Creature Crucibles have some interesting races. I'd be interesting in hearing of more, or AD&D stats for any of the above that aren't already. > > Specialty Priests of the Immortals > > For those who play in Mystara using AD&D, having the information on > > specialtiy priests would be damn handy. I have made up a few myself, and > > will submit them. > > Bruce? Any plans on finishing up the immortals? Yes, I'll finish them eventually. My internet access is rather sporadic since I'm on break right now, in about a week I'll have my access back and I've already got a few more to post. I'll probably go back and do more detail on some of them. __________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #24 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #25 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, 9 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 025 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jam@wimsey.com (strawberryJAMM) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 22:14 PST Subject: [Mystara] Re: A Variety of Things [RE: The Mystara FAQ] Mischa E Gelman Said: >> This shouldn't hard (hopefully). Whenever someone comes up with a >> good question, we'll add it. I will probably start work on this before >> too long. > >Like when? This was a few months ago. True, But I can't recall having heard anyone "come up with a good question" yet, so what is there to put in a FAQ??? :-) However, all foolishness aside (well, maybe not ALL...) a Basic FAQ should at least list the "mission statement" for the group/list/whatever. You know, why we exist, and what sort of topics of dicussion you can expect to see here, etc. Also, there should be "instructions to newbies" (i.e., anything a new comer might benefit from knowing before being plunged into the depths of potentially esoteric e-mail). Since this list is fairly new, we don't actually know what questions and/or topics are going to come up again and again and again and AGAIN. Until we *do* know, there won't be any F. A. Q's to put in the FAQ! :-) [RE: The cannonical list of immortals] Sir George Anonymous Said > >I see a problem with limiting the discussion to two weeks. Many of the >people on this list receive it in digest format and may miss much of the >discussion before the deadline. Perhaps four weeks of discussion would >be better to accomodate those people. That is a good point. Perhaps we should start off with a one month deadline. Of course, since we are just starting this up, I'm sure much of the proposed "rules" will be modified as time goes on. Also, don't forget that the initial discussion time isn't all the discussion that there is. In some cases, discussion may have to continue after members of the list have commented on the "reasearch" and added even more of their own $0.02 worth. [RE: The collection of data on Forsetta and Cretia by Cthulhudrew] Sir George Anonymous Said >How is it coming? Did you pass the info on to strawberryJAMM? Will it >make the list soon? At this time I haven't seen Cthulhudrew's research, but we had discussed just letting the "Researcher" handle the postings until it was in some kind of "official form", so its possible that he will just post it himeself. I don't know which method will be best in the long run, so I guess we'll just have to play it by ear. On A Similar Note: Re: "New" Immortals: I'd like to work on this idea too, but I *really* need some suggestions for the type and level of detail we, on the list, expect someone to provide for such a creation to be taken into consideration. In other words, what is the minimum amount of information we would expect to have in a Reference work on Available Immortals? (Never mind about what the minimum actual is in the case of some of TSR's Immortals, what would we *like* to see). Some of my own ideas would be, at a minimum, to include: 1)At least a basic background of the Immortal (i.e. why/how they became an Immortal) 2)What they "stand" for, in the sense of "pet projects" or "pet populations" etc. 3)Who the majority of their worshipers are (i.e., their race(s), the region(s) they are from, their livelihood, etc.), 4)Their Holy Symbol and other symbolic things associated with them 5)Differences between the "standard" Cleric and His/Her/Its clerics (if there are any) Does anyone else have anything to add to this list? Once I've got a handle on what we want, I'll ask list members to submitt their Immortals to me, and then I will deal with passing them through the list for discussion. Ta! - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- - -- strawberry JAMM -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield jam@wimsey.com -- http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/jamjar.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Black Holes Are Merely Where God Divided By Zero" -- unknown ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 15:57:58 AST Subject: [Mystara] [Wrath] Battles and Wars Has anyone run the battles of the Great War? Stormwinds has reached mid-summer 2005 AY and most units have been mustered, but other than the huge naval battles and the sieges on the Isle of Dawn, has anyone thought through the battles which would have taken place on Brun during this time, specifically in the southern region of Norwold. I'm asking because characters are starting to move around now and may want to skirt/detour around warzones on their quests. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 12:27:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects > I believe someone was already working on Skothar? Davania was glossed > over briefly in Champions of Mystara. Wendar would be nice to hear more > about as well as the rest of the HW. Where are Skothar and Wendar? Are the freeholds the only undeveloped known world setting?(Knwo world=expert rulebook map, not outer world map)> > Rakasta, Tortles, and Lupins are detailed in the Red Steel boxed set. > The lizardman of the savage coast were in Dragon #185. Phanatons were in > Dragon #188. All 4 Creature Crucibles have some interesting races. I'd > be interesting in hearing of more, or AD&D stats for any of the above > that aren't already. Well, Rakasta for ODND was here, and both them and lupines were here in ADND. Tortles? What is Red Steel boxed set? A new ADND thing? What races were in each of the PC books? I've seen 1 and 3. AC10 has new PC races, from waht i've heard. Hollow World has a few new ones, too. Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 12:41:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: A Variety of Things > True, But I can't recall having heard anyone "come up with a good > question" yet, so what is there to put in a FAQ??? :-) > > However, all foolishness aside (well, maybe not ALL...) a Basic FAQ > should at least list the "mission statement" for the group/list/whatever. > You know, why we exist, and what sort of topics of dicussion you can expect > to see here, etc. Also, there should be "instructions to newbies" > (i.e., anything a new comer might benefit from knowing before being > plunged into the depths of potentially esoteric e-mail). > > Since this list is fairly new, we don't actually know what questions > and/or topics are going to come up again and again and again and AGAIN. > Until we *do* know, there won't be any F. A. Q's to put in the FAQ! :-) OK, lets see some possibilites: What is Mystara? What are the major nations? What is the HolloW World? Who are the major immortals and what are their goals? When was the setting invented(Blackmoor?) What products have been made for it? Just basic stuff, as you mentioned things for newbies. > On A Similar Note: > > Re: "New" Immortals: > I'd like to work on this idea too, but I *really* need some suggestions > for the type and level of detail we, on the list, expect someone to provide > for such a creation to be taken into consideration. In other words, what > is the minimum amount of information we would expect to have in a Reference > work on Available Immortals? (Never mind about what the minimum actual is > in the case of some of TSR's Immortals, what would we *like* to see). Have the ones I've sent(Pana,Alexander,Melo) been enough info? I've been taking some old stuff, added some stuff as I type, deleted some. I have almost 40(!) immortals left to send. Most need a lot of work to get the detail I think people want. I'll check the guidelines you give below. > 1)At least a basic background of the Immortal (i.e. why/how they became > an Immortal) Have a mortal background take up most of the space of the ones I've sent. > 2)What they "stand" for, in the sense of "pet projects" or "pet > populations" etc. A paragraph is usually all I can get. Is that enough? > 3)Who the majority of their worshipers are (i.e., their race(s), the > region(s) they are from, their livelihood, etc.), Mostly new immortals I've invented(Novice Temproals,initiates) so I don't think this would apply. For the Celestials and above, I guess I got to come up with something. > 4)Their Holy Symbol and other symbolic things associated with them D'oh! Completely forgot that. > 5)Differences between the "standard" Cleric and His/Her/Its clerics > (if there are any) I'll try to think some stuff up. I'm sure I'll need to develop that better. > Does anyone else have anything to add to this list? Please add ideas, coz I wouldn't mind fleshing out ton of the immortals I played as a preteen munchkin so that they could be used more for RP. Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 12:59:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] [Wrath] Battles and Wars > Has anyone run the battles of the Great War? Sorry. I don't have WOTI. What's the Great War? Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 16:06:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Introing myself Greets, all! I just found this list after about a decade of looking for something similar. :) I'm quite the fan of Mystara, and hope to see and contribute to some discussions about it. Some questions (ignore at will :) ): Will TSR be printing anything new for Mystara? I heard that the only new supplements will be in Dragon, or for Red Steel. What Dragon magazine issues (after 200; I found an index listing everything before that) have Mystara/HW/KW/RS info? Will there be any more Poor Wizard/Joshuan's Almanacs? What is considered 'canon', and 'net-canon' about M/HW/KW/RS? Has anybody compiled the pre-Champions of Mystara logs of the Princess Ark? Or the geographical/social/etc information? Is there any recommended dates for setting the OD&D modules? (eg, X3 Curse of Xanathon, as well as several others, are indirectly referred to in Josh's Almanac) What are the hot, burning questions the rest of you are asking that I've missed, just having signed on? :) Until Thanatos sniffs a petunia, Make Mine Mystara! :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 16:22:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Just a few more questions.. :) Just wondering.. Who offers/runs/moderates this list? Is there a Mystara net.guru? If so, is he/she taking on apprentices? :) Are archives of this list being kept? Does anybody want me to dig up and post a list of all Mystara-based products TSR's published? Or how about a complete-ish timeline gleaned from the Gazetters & co.? Until Serraine meets Oostdock (heck, even then), Make Mine Mystara! :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 16:41:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects > > I believe someone was already working on Skothar? Davania was glossed > > over briefly in Champions of Mystara. Wendar would be nice to hear more > > about as well as the rest of the HW. > > Where are Skothar and Wendar? Are the freeholds the only undeveloped > known world setting?(Knwo world=expert rulebook map, not outer world map)> Skothar is the continent to the east of Bellissaria and the New Alphatian Sea. Wendar is a country of elves to the north of Glantri. The Freeholds have been described in portions, here and there; I can dig up references and/or data if you wish. > What is Red Steel boxed set? A new ADND thing? Red Steel is a setting to the west of the Known World, past Sind. It was first shown in the Princess Ark chronicles, then made into an AD&D 2nd.ed. setting. > What races were in each of the PC books? I've seen 1 and 3. PC1: Tall Tales of the Wee folk: Brownies, Redcaps, Centaurs, Dryads, Fauns, Hsiao, Leprechauns, Pixies, Pookas, Sidhe, Sprites, Treants, Wood Imps, Woodrakes. PC2: Top Ballista: Faenare, Gnomes, Gremlinds, Harpies, Nagpa, Pegataurs, Sphinxes, Tabi. PC3: The Sea People: Aquatic elves, Kna, Kopru, Merrow, Nixies, Sea Giants, Sharkkin, Tritons. PC4: Night Howlers: Werebats, Werebears, Wereboars, Werefoxes, Wererats, Wereseals, Weresharks, Weretigers, Werewolves, Werehogs/Devil Swine. (Plus rules for any other lycanthrope species.) > AC10 has new PC races, from waht i've heard. Hollow World has a few new > ones, too. I don't know about AC10.. But GAZ10 has most standard humanoids. GAZ10: The Orcs of Thar: Kobolds, Goblins, Orcs, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Gnolls, Ogres, Trolls. (Plus rules for any other humanoid species.) Hollow World: Warrior Elves, Beastmen, Brute-Men, Hutaakans, Krugel Orcs, Kubitts, Malpheggi Lizard Men. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 09:02:19 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] [Wrath] Battles and Wars > > Has anyone run the battles of the Great War? Actually, we had quite a fun with the wars, and the whole WOTI - -episode. The group I gamemaster had just reasonly gaind immortality after some 800 hours playing with the same characters (never again :) Or actually three of four members had gaind immortality, separately, and one had been made an titan by Odin, when she died, after a long life of an hero. The way we played things, were that we played the war during one single evening. Players all played their initiate immortals (and the titan) with their limited powers, and followers (only one had eny followers to name), and also using their original mortal forms. They did not know what was to happen, except that they had been in the immortal meeting, where all began. allways that somthing happened in the war, the players could do ssomething to further their cause, or choose not to. But of course the things they xcould do was limited by their powers... It was really fan. Excpecially as the playrs wene not all on the same side. Well to be excaxt, two of them never really showd which side thay were, but worked for both. The most fun thing that happened, was the creation of plague. During the WOTI plague ravages many countries, but its origin is not known. In our game it was on of the players Alma, the Queen of witches, who helped the Alhambra elves of glantri create plague, for use as an weapon against alphatians... But she did not know about the orc-invasion from broken lands, which run thru alhambra lands, and also destroid the secret lab, in which the plague was just finished, so letteing the plague out to attac glantrians and orcs, and soon also ethengars... And ofcourse the players were also involved in the happenings that destroid alphatia. Though they weren't the cause, even though they were the cause that destroid Sundswall we playd on fast speed until the alphatias sinking, and now the immortals are doing what they can, to get all the profit of the after war - -situation... Though lately we have been playing more and more with our other campaing. and only rarely keep up to the immortals... for convenients sake. An immortal campaing is not an easy to play... > Sorry. I don't have WOTI. What's the Great War? the war, in which the continent of Alphatia sank to the bottom of the sea... i believe... - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 13:14:35 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Introing myself At 16.06 08/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >Greets, all! > >I just found this list after about a decade of looking for something >similar. :) I'm quite the fan of Mystara, and hope to see and contribute >to some discussions about it. > Hi! I'm new to this list too. >Some questions (ignore at will :) ): > > Will TSR be printing anything new for Mystara? I heard that the only new >supplements will be in Dragon, or for Red Steel. > What Dragon magazine issues (after 200; I found an index listing >everything before that) have Mystara/HW/KW/RS info? Dragon 206 Joshuan introduces Fort Doom. Dragon 207 Joshuan talks about the new Karameikan school of magic. Until now that's all. > Will there be any more Poor Wizard/Joshuan's Almanacs? I hope. > What is considered 'canon', and 'net-canon' about M/HW/KW/RS? > Has anybody compiled the pre-Champions of Mystara logs of the Princess >Ark? Or the geographical/social/etc information? > Is there any recommended dates for setting the OD&D modules? (eg, X3 >Curse of Xanathon, as well as several others, are indirectly referred to >in Josh's Almanac) > What are the hot, burning questions the rest of you are asking that I've >missed, just having signed on? :) Good question! :-) > >Until Thanatos sniffs a petunia, Make Mine Mystara! :) >-- >Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca > > Thanatos sniffs a Petunia ??? Hmmm... ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 13:14:43 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] [Wrath] Battles and Wars At 12.59 08/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >> Has anyone run the battles of the Great War? >Sorry. I don't have WOTI. What's the Great War? > Well, I think you should buy WOTI... if you still can find a copy :-) I have WOTI, but I have not run it yet. What's the problem ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 13:14:58 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Various questions In Gaz11 (Darokin) there is a chapter about weather generation, road conditions and random mishaps, but the list of mishaps is missed. Where can I find it ? Another question: Gaz13 (Shadow Elves) states that shamans cannot use their soul crystal above ground because they crumble tu dust. Is this effective also for the Alfheim invasion described in WOTI. Last question: if a cleric of the church of Karameikos asks his DM (me) whic immortal he should worship, what should I tell him ? BTW, if someone ran some adventures in the pricipality of Aalban (Glantri) and has some interesting stuff about it, please let me know. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 13:35:06 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects At 16.41 08/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >> > I believe someone was already working on Skothar? Davania was glossed >> > over briefly in Champions of Mystara. Wendar would be nice to hear more >> > about as well as the rest of the HW. >> >> Where are Skothar and Wendar? Are the freeholds the only undeveloped >> known world setting?(Knwo world=expert rulebook map, not outer world map)> > >Skothar is the continent to the east of Bellissaria and the New Alphatian >Sea. Wendar is a country of elves to the north of Glantri. The Freeholds >have been described in portions, here and there; I can dig up references >and/or data if you wish. > >> What is Red Steel boxed set? A new ADND thing? >Red Steel is a setting to the west of the Known World, past Sind. It was >first shown in the Princess Ark chronicles, then made into an AD&D >2nd.ed. setting. > >> What races were in each of the PC books? I've seen 1 and 3. > PC1: Tall Tales of the Wee folk: Brownies, Redcaps, Centaurs, Dryads, >Fauns, Hsiao, Leprechauns, Pixies, Pookas, Sidhe, Sprites, Treants, Wood >Imps, Woodrakes. > PC2: Top Ballista: Faenare, Gnomes, Gremlinds, Harpies, Nagpa, >Pegataurs, Sphinxes, Tabi. > PC3: The Sea People: Aquatic elves, Kna, Kopru, Merrow, Nixies, Sea >Giants, Sharkkin, Tritons. > PC4: Night Howlers: Werebats, Werebears, Wereboars, Werefoxes, Wererats, >Wereseals, Weresharks, Weretigers, Werewolves, Werehogs/Devil Swine. >(Plus rules for any other lycanthrope species.) > >> AC10 has new PC races, from waht i've heard. Hollow World has a few new >> ones, too. >I don't know about AC10.. But GAZ10 has most standard humanoids. > GAZ10: The Orcs of Thar: Kobolds, Goblins, Orcs, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, >Gnolls, Ogres, Trolls. (Plus rules for any other humanoid species.) > Hollow World: Warrior Elves, Beastmen, Brute-Men, Hutaakans, Krugel Orcs, >Kubitts, Malpheggi Lizard Men. > AC10 is a (almost) complete catalogue of all the races mentioned above and maybe it introduces also some new monster, but I'm not sure. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:02:47 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] What size is Mystara Listers, Just a basic question? Q: What is the radius of Mystara? Scooby ------------------------------ From: Randir o Ia Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:40:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Joseph DuBois wrote: > Q: What is the radius of Mystara? > Scooby > Outer Circumference : 19448 miles Inner Circumference : 11908 miles divide by 2pi for radius if you need it.. (and no I had to look these up :) _____________________________________________________________________________ || Im raena mi lokeryn pella agarwaen nore. === || === Sinome i mornie lanta ve ulma tenn'ungwe. // \||/ \\ \\ /||\ // Ar i alata o engwa anar quanta vilya a canre. === || === Ilye er im estela ring denie o gurth u-nai nin. __||__ \ / Abyssal Wanderer http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd \/ _____________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: Wildmule@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 13:01:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Various >>Ann, what is the legal status of the Mystara web site? Have you heard anything from TSR?<< TSR is in the process of creating an official web site as we speak. I've been meaning to get in touch with Sean to make sure that a) there'll be at least one Mystara page there and b) uploads and downloads of Mystara materials (i.e. stuff contributed by members of the list, etc.) will be available. Haven't made the time to ask him yet (been pretty busy) -- will do so now and get back to you when I hear from Sean. Best regards, Ann Dupuis ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 16:26:51 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara > Listers, > > > Just a basic question? > > > Q: What is the radius of Mystara? Exactly.... I have no idea. But according to the Cyclopaedia's maps and my own pocket dictionary (from memory), it's half the size of Earth. > Scooby HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #25 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #26 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 10 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 026 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ZUBE" Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 15:06:39 -0600, MDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects David wrote: > AC10 is a (almost) complete catalogue of all the races mentioned above and > maybe it introduces also some new monster, but I'm not sure. What is this AC10 that you're talking about? I can't remember the product numbers of the AC series, but I think I own them all (including #10) and I can't remember any product cataloging all of the character class/races for D&D. Do you own this product? If so, what's the title? Chrysdelarius ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Tue, 09 Jan 96 20:31:44 -0500 Subject: [none] - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca wrote: > Or how about a complete-ish timeline gleaned from the Gazetters & co.? I'd really appreciate it if you would post this! TIA, Shelby ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 20:03:46 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] The Great Immortal Project Hey all! I've been away for a while for the holidays, so sorry for the dealy on my postings for Forsetta and Cretia. I'm glad to see that there is still interest, though, and will post them shortly, but first a couple of things... One, the format that I am using for them is identical to the one used in the WOtI Immortals book- ie, stats, descriptions, et al. I thought that would be a suitable format for the time being at least, until we come up with a more standardized description. Two, all of the information I am posting is what I have gleaned from references to the two immortals supplemented with information on them from my own campaign. I would be very interested in hearing what you all think of my takes on them, and any suggestions you may have for me. On another note, I am wondering what you all think of the WOtI presentation of immortals. There is information in it that I like, but I tend to use a combination of the original Immortals rules by Frank Mentzer as well as Aaron Allston's rules. I prefer the 'Immortals as greater beings' presentation of Mentzer's as opposed to the 'Immortals as gods' route taken by Allston. As a result, I discount the information on followers (an immortal disappears without them?). I also prefer the powers as presented in the gold box rules, with various pp costs for spells, depending on your sphere, et al, though I do like the idea of immortals supplementing their personal power with armor and weapons. Another idea I recently had, along these lines, though I've yet to implement it, due to the lack of clerics among my players, is the idea of clerical spellcasting. The idea is that spells of levels, say 1-2 or 3, are powered by the cleric's own beliefs and ability to directly call upon the powers of his sphere, and higher level spells are granted to the cleric directly by the immortal or immortals whose tenets he follows. They aren't memorized/prayed for ahead of time, but granted when he needs them through a direct imploring to his immortal. Naturally, more powerful clerics (higher level) have more influence with their immortal, and thus have a greater chance of receiving his favor (ie, they get more spells). The reasoning behind this change, in my mind, is to help shift from the 'immortals as gods' reasoning, and make the immortals more like big brothers watching out for the weaker mortals, and helping them when they can, both to assist the mortal as well as further their own causes. Anyway, I've rattled on enough. Expect my posts on Forsetta and Cretia shortly, as well as let me know what thoughts this post may have stimulated out there. Oh, and Happy New Year, everybody. It's good to be back! ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 20:09:09 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Another note... I just thought of something else... The weapon mastery rules given in the Rules Cyclopedia for wrestling and striking spurred this thought in me long ago. I decided, using that format, to make up rules for other unarmed weapon masteries- ie, martial arts- for characters to learn. I was initially going to send them to Dragon, but with the passing of Mystara and OD&D... well, you can guess why I never did. So far, I have come up with rules for Aikido, Savate, and Kung Fu, with plans for some others, but I've never actually had a chance to implement these rules in a campaign to test for balance, so I'm not sure how much of an impact they might have. On paper they don't look to unbalancing, but you never know. Anyway, if anyone would be interested in seeing these, and giving me some feedback, I'll go ahead and post them here. If not, well, I guess I won't *sniff, sniff*. Anyhoo, let me know. :) (We now return you to your regularly scheduled program...) ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 00:25:40 -0500 Subject: [none] - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Hello all, Cthulhudrew wrote: >So far, I have come up with rules for Aikido, Savate, and Kung Fu, >Anyway, if anyone would be interested in seeing these, and giving >me some feedback, I'll go ahead and post them here. It seems to be my day for encouraging others' efforts! If these ideas mesh with the other rules in the Cyclopedia, I'd like to see them. Please go ahead. It would be some time before I get back to running my campaign though , so I won't be able to give you playtest feedback for a while...if that's not a problem, please go ahead! TIA, Shelby ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 03:20:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Nightshade wrote: > > Listers, > > Just a basic question? > > > > Q: What is the radius of Mystara? > > Exactly.... I have no idea. > But according to the Cyclopaedia's maps and my own pocket dictionary > (from memory), it's half the size of Earth. > > Scooby Nah, couldn't be - since Mystara is based on the map of Earth as of roughly 350 million years ago (number could be incorrect). Either the scale printing is wrong, or Mystara is actually devoid of an atmosphere as a planet with only 0.1 surface gravities wouldn't be able to hang on to anything :) Of course you could point to the world-shield and say that that generated the extra gravity needed. But then you'd have a black hole or a neutron mass planet instead because such a supermassive substance wouldn't be stable in a shell form. Sorry to be so literal with my fantasy - but as a budding engineer Gm'ing a group of other engineering and science types, we like to keep our fantasy a bit realistic. That's why my campaign doesn't include any 'Hollow World' - it's silly and unneccesary. Just use a convenient outer plane as the world zoo instead, like I do, and you have all the effect with none of the silly handwaving needed. If you were an Old One and had the coince between drafting an Outer Plane into service, or spend the rest of your endless existence supporting the World shield, which would you do ? ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 11:48:51 GMT Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects On Mon, 8 Jan 1996 12:27:56 -0500 (EST, Mischa E Gelman wrote: >Where are Skothar and Wendar? Are the freeholds the only undeveloped >known world setting?(Knwo world=expert rulebook map, not outer world map)> Skothar I don't know for sure, but Wendar is on the continent of Brun, north of Glantri. It's a northern land ruled by elves, with many refugees from Alf- heim. Not much information available, but you should look up the entry in the new Joshuan's Almanac. >Well, Rakasta for ODND was here, and both them and lupines were here in >ADND. Tortles? Tortles are turtle creatures living in the western part of the Savage Coast. >What is Red Steel boxed set? A new ADND thing? Red Steel is a relatively new AD&D boxed set. It came out after the Karameikos box and it features the Savage Coast, west of the Known World, as first presented in the Voyages of the Princess Ark. The Alphatian Empire lives! Andrea Stadtfeld e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 12:04:44 GMT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Just a few more questions.. :) On Mon, 8 Jan 1996 16:22:01 -0500 (EST, Daniel Boese wrote: > Does anybody want me to dig up and post a list of all Mystara-based >products TSR's published? That would be great indeed. And availability wouldn't be bad either. I'm trying really hard for some time now to get all the Gazetteers, which is quite a deal here in Germany. > Or how about a complete-ish timeline gleaned from the Gazetters & co.? Another great idea, to my mind. The Alphatian Empire lives! Andrea Stadtfeld e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 06:15:58 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, Andrea Stadtfeld wrote: > On Mon, 8 Jan 1996 12:27:56 -0500 (EST, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > >Where are Skothar and Wendar? Are the freeholds the only undeveloped > >known world setting?(Knwo world=expert rulebook map, not outer world map)> > > Skothar I don't know for sure, but Wendar is on the continent of Brun, north > of Glantri. It's a northern land ruled by elves, with many refugees from Alf- > heim. Not much information available, but you should look up the entry in > the new Joshuan's Almanac. > There seems to be some misconception here - on the part of TSR or someone else I don't know - but Wendar is the HUMAN-controlled lands north of the Heldannic Freeholds, allied to Thyatis. See Saga of the Shadow Lord for details. It's only in the WoTI that elven refugees from the (stupid) Shadowelf invasion reach them. Up until that point Wendar was fairly exclusively human, and unless the refugees get involved in some fairly heavy-handed opressing of the natives, likely to remain so. Culturally, Wendar seems to resemble 12-14th century England with a rather more feudal culture than the rest of the continent, but there are some bits that remind me of the Frankish Normans ( as opposed to the British Normans who were the Scandinavian descendants that left frane and invaded Britain.) ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 14:29:23 GMT Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects On Wed, 10 Jan 1996 Oeystein H. Lund. wrote: > There seems to be some misconception here - on the part of TSR or >someone else I don't know - but Wendar is the HUMAN-controlled lands >north of the Heldannic Freeholds, allied to Thyatis. See Saga of the Seems to be on the part of TSR in this case. I had not information on Wendar so far, the earlier almanacs had not much offer, but in the entry in Joshuan's Almanac it is stated that Wendar is elven-controlled, with few humans living there. An elven king rules, don't have his name handy as I'm sitting here at university, and there are some problems with the refugees who do not fit properly into the kingdom. That's what the Almanac says or rather this correspondent from Ostland. >Shadow Lord for details. It's only in the WoTI that elven refugees from >the (stupid) Shadowelf invasion reach them. Up until that point Wendar >was fairly exclusively human, and unless the refugees get involved in >some fairly heavy-handed opressing of the natives, likely to remain so. The almanac states expressively FEW humans. There seems to be no unity at TSR concerning Mystara. In the Poor Wizard's Almanac of AC 1012 they changed everything concerning Oenkmar and the City of the Stars, now they changed Wendar. And you're right, I also think the Shadow Elf invasion was stupid. > Culturally, Wendar seems to resemble 12-14th century England with a >rather more feudal culture than the rest of the continent, but there are >some bits that remind me of the Frankish Normans ( as opposed to the >British Normans who were the Scandinavian descendants that left frane and >invaded Britain.) Where did you get that much information about Wendar? I'm still looking for some old D&D-material to fill my gaps of knowledge. From the entry in the Almanac it sounds more like an elven kingdom in the north, Alfheim turned Northern Reaches, if you know what I mean. Glory for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 14:35:23 GMT Subject: [Mystara] Greetings Greetings folks! I'm a new member of this mailing list, and want to introduce myself. I'm a 24 years old female from Germany, and play AD&D for five years. I started playing after reading the Dragonlance-Saga, started DMing in the FR, and after browsing through the AC 1010 edition of the PWA I was so fascinated with Mystara I switched my campaign there. What I want to find out in this mailing list is, if any more products from TSR come up, or if the line will be cancelled (my personal nightmare) and how other people's campaigns look like. Tell me about your campaigns, please. I'm always looking for some ideas, as it's hard to get old Mystara articles like the Gazetteers in Germany. Anybody got information about Akorros? My players plan a trip there, you know. Glory for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 15:07:22 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects At 15.06 09/01/96 MDT, you wrote: >David wrote: > >> AC10 is a (almost) complete catalogue of all the races mentioned above and >> maybe it introduces also some new monster, but I'm not sure. > >What is this AC10 that you're talking about? I can't >remember the product numbers of the AC series, but >I think I own them all (including #10) and I can't >remember any product cataloging all of the character >class/races for D&D. > >Do you own this product? If so, what's the title? > >Chrysdelarius > Excuse me, I made a mistake... maybe two :-( AC10 is about Giants & dragons. The product I was talking about is DMR2 Creature Catalog and it details over 150 new creatures, but only as monsters. However if you own Gaz10 you can make them character class. I beg you pardon :-) ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 15:07:35 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Another note... At 20.09 09/01/96 -0700, you wrote: >I just thought of something else... > >The weapon mastery rules given in the Rules Cyclopedia for wrestling and >striking spurred this thought in me long ago. I decided, using that >format, to make up rules for other unarmed weapon masteries- ie, martial >arts- for characters to learn. I was initially going to send them to >Dragon, but with the passing of Mystara and OD&D... well, you can guess >why I never did. > >So far, I have come up with rules for Aikido, Savate, and Kung Fu, with >plans for some others, but I've never actually had a chance to implement >these rules in a campaign to test for balance, so I'm not sure how much >of an impact they might have. On paper they don't look to unbalancing, >but you never know. > >Anyway, if anyone would be interested in seeing these, and giving me some >feedback, I'll go ahead and post them here. If not, well, I guess I >won't *sniff, sniff*. > >Anyhoo, let me know. :) > >(We now return you to your regularly scheduled program...) > Ok, go ahead. Show us this martial art rules. I remember seeing something about martial art in Red Steel, but that is AD&D. The Cyclopedia says that everyone is basic level in wrestling ans striking, whereas martial arts are only for the mystic class (RC pag. 30), so you cannot give basic skill in martial art to every class otherwise the game is umbalanced. On the other hand who would use one of his/her weapon choices in martial art, when he can master better weapons ? However I'm still interested in your rules, so please go ahead. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 15:07:48 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara At 03.20 10/01/96 -0600, you wrote: >On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Nightshade wrote: >> > Listers, >> > Just a basic question? >> > >> > Q: What is the radius of Mystara? >> >> Exactly.... I have no idea. >> But according to the Cyclopaedia's maps and my own pocket dictionary >> (from memory), it's half the size of Earth. >> > Scooby > > Nah, couldn't be - since Mystara is based on the map of Earth as of >roughly 350 million years ago (number could be incorrect). Either the >scale printing is wrong, or Mystara is actually devoid of an atmosphere >as a planet with only 0.1 surface gravities wouldn't be able to hang on >to anything :) Of course you could point to the world-shield and say that >that generated the extra gravity needed. But then you'd have a black hole >or a neutron mass planet instead because such a supermassive substance >wouldn't be stable in a shell form. Sorry to be so literal with my >fantasy - but as a budding engineer Gm'ing a group of other engineering >and science types, we like to keep our fantasy a bit realistic. > That's why my campaign doesn't include any 'Hollow World' - it's silly >and unneccesary. Just use a convenient outer plane as the world zoo >instead, like I do, and you have all the effect with none of the silly >handwaving needed. If you were an Old One and had the coince between >drafting an Outer Plane into service, or spend the rest of your endless >existence supporting the World shield, which would you do ? > Wow, a fellow enginnering student GMing a group of science types. As I always say to one of my PC (a biology student), which is often too "scientist": "why do you cast spells, is it realistic ?" Fantasy is fantasy, don't make it too realistic ! :-) By the way, Mystara size from RC (or Randir o Ia letter) Outer Circumference : 19448 miles Inner Circumference : 11908 miles divide by 2pi for radius if you need it.. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 15:07:53 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] spells In the GAZ series, at least 3 MU spell systems are described: the human one, the one of Alfheim elves and the one of Shadow elves. What happens, for example, if a Shadow Elf goes in Glantri and learns Sleep (i.e. one of the spells unknown in his caves). Can he cast it ? If yes, what happens when I goes back to his underground realm ? Can he cast the spell there? Can he sell "Sleep" to other elves ? If yes, then in a reasonable period of time that spell will spread all over the realm and sooner or later there wouldn't be those different spell system in Mystara... or at least in the Known World. In Dragon #175 page 46 Bruce Heard states that human cannot use elven magic and vice versa. I don't agree with him, let me know your views. P.S.: maybe you wonder why I am so concerned with Shadow Elves and magic. Well, I have a party of Shadow Elves and they are currently in Glantri. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 10:18:20 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara > Outer Circumference : 19448 miles > Inner Circumference : 11908 miles > > divide by 2pi for radius if you need it.. I realize (after checking the measurements), that I am indeed wrong, very wrong. I think I switched the radius for the diameter (last time I looked at it was three years ago). Sorry. > ************** > Fabrizio Paoli > DM in City Of The Stars > aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr > ************** HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 15:30:15 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects At 14.29 10/01/96 GMT, you wrote: >On Wed, 10 Jan 1996 Oeystein H. Lund. wrote: > >> There seems to be some misconception here - on the part of TSR or >>someone else I don't know - but Wendar is the HUMAN-controlled lands >>north of the Heldannic Freeholds, allied to Thyatis. See Saga of the > >Seems to be on the part of TSR in this case. I had not information on >Wendar so far, the earlier almanacs had not much offer, but in the entry in >Joshuan's Almanac it is stated that Wendar is elven-controlled, with few >humans living there. An elven king rules, don't have his name handy as I'm >sitting here at university, and there are some problems with the refugees >who do not fit properly into the kingdom. That's what the Almanac says or >rather this correspondent from Ostland. > Unfortunately I haven't got Saga of the Shadow Lord (and I think I'll never find that her in Italy...sigh) but from the almanacs, WOTI and various mention here and there, I think that Wendar is an elven-controlled kingdom west of Heldann and north of Glantri with few humans. >>Shadow Lord for details. It's only in the WoTI that elven refugees from >>the (stupid) Shadowelf invasion reach them. Up until that point Wendar >>was fairly exclusively human, and unless the refugees get involved in >>some fairly heavy-handed opressing of the natives, likely to remain so. > >The almanac states expressively FEW humans. There seems to be no unity at >TSR concerning Mystara. In the Poor Wizard's Almanac of AC 1012 they >changed everything concerning Oenkmar and the City of the Stars, now they >changed Wendar. And you're right, I also think the Shadow Elf invasion was >stupid. I didn't read AC 1012 fully, what's the problem with Oenkmar ? The Shadow Elf invasion was not stupid ! Alfheim elf are stupid ! > >> Culturally, Wendar seems to resemble 12-14th century England with a >>rather more feudal culture than the rest of the continent, but there are >>some bits that remind me of the Frankish Normans ( as opposed to the >>British Normans who were the Scandinavian descendants that left frane and >>invaded Britain.) > >Where did you get that much information about Wendar? I'm still looking for >some old D&D-material to fill my gaps of knowledge. From the entry in the >Almanac it sounds more like an elven kingdom in the north, Alfheim turned >Northern Reaches, if you know what I mean. Maybe in X## Saga of The Shadow Lord ? >Glory for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! > >Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon >Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- > >e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de > > ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #26 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #27 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 10 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 027 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wildmule@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:50:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara Scooby (gemjmd@kodak.com (Joseph DuBois)) asked: >>Q: What is the radius of Mystara?<< Mystara is 6,190 miles in diameter (3,095 radius). Its circumference at the equator is ~19,400 miles. The crust is ~ 1,200 miles thick. Its two polar openings measure 1,500 miles in diameter at Mystara's outer surface (they narrow as they approach the World Shield, then widen again to 1,000 miles in diameter within the Hollow World). The total surface area of the planet's outer world, minus the polar openings, is just over 105 million square miles. 60% is covered by water. The interior diameter is 3,790 miles (measured from any point on the Hollow World's surface through the center of its floating sun to the corresponding point on the opposite side). The interior circumference at the equator is 11,908 miles. The Hollow World has a surface area of just over 38 million square miles, 70% covered by water. And yes, Mystara is smaller than the Earth. Gravity, being generated primarily by the World Shield, is the same as Earth's, despite Mystara being hollow. (It's the same within the Hollow World as well as the outer world. It gets tricky in the caverns that actually penetrate the World Shield, including at the capital of the Shadow Elf realms.) Hope this helps. (Oh, and if anyone's curious, Earth is 12,756 miles in diameter at the equator, for comparison. A *lot* bigger than Mystara.) Best regards, Ann Dupuis ------------------------------ From: Wildmule@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:50:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects stein1@spring.com (Oeystein H. Lund.) wrote: >> There seems to be some misconception here - on the part of TSR or someone else I don't know - but Wendar is the HUMAN-controlled lands north of the Heldannic Freeholds, allied to Thyatis. See Saga of the Shadow Lord for details. It's only in the WoTI that elven refugees from the (stupid) Shadowelf invasion reach them. Up until that point Wendar was fairly exclusively human, and unless the refugees get involved in some fairly heavy-handed opressing of the natives, likely to remain so.<< I suspect that the confusion arose due to the fact that the "Elvenstar" was the artifact given to King Gylharen that allows him to rule Wendar so effectively (and that was lost and hopefully recovered during the events of X11, Saga of the Shadow Lord). While Gylharen is described as "an old man" in that module, there are no actual stats for him listed, and no levels given (he's just refered to as the Wizard-King). So when it came time for the first Almanac to pull together stats and other information on all the obscure countries and their leaders ("obscure" meaning not very detailed in previous products), Aaron made him an elf. (Perhaps someone, earlier, had made the same "mistake," and Aaron didn't realize that X11 didn't support that conclusion.) In doing the IInd and later Almanacs, I was often faced with contradictory material (and, sad to say, due to limited time and a sometimes faulty memory, occasionally introduced some contradictory material myself). In most cases, I went with the most recently published material (in Gylharen's case, the first Almanac). Only when evidence (in the form of other published products, or physical laws of the universe, or common sense and logic) was overwhelmingly *against* information in the first Almanac did I "correct" the information published there. None of which means that Gylharen has to be an elf in your campaign. Just that he had to be sympathetic to the Alfheim refugees' cause (if you choose to accept the events during WotI and the Almanacs as they were presented). As for Wendar being almost exclusively human, X11 could lead one to a different conclusion. There are references to elves being well established there (on p. 2, Wendar is described with "The large forests and plains covering the rich valley are the common dwellings of elves and human farmers that make up the Wendarian population."). As elves are listed first, I'd hesitate to call Wendar "fairly exclusively human." Best regards, Ann Dupuis (using the mystara-l list as a major means of procrastination today -- but having fun!) ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 10:03:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects > On Mon, 8 Jan 1996 12:27:56 -0500 (EST, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > >Where are Skothar and Wendar? Are the freeholds the only undeveloped > >known world setting?(Knwo world=expert rulebook map, not outer world map)> > > Skothar I don't know for sure, but Wendar is on the continent of Brun, north > of Glantri. It's a northern land ruled by elves, with many refugees from Alf- > heim. Not much information available, but you should look up the entry in > the new Joshuan's Almanac. > Skothar is east of Alphaitia. (basically europe). I have started detailing the southern coast in Toowin's travels on my web site, but work has finally caught up to me. I was hoping to have a new installment each month. If others want to send me ideas or post their own, go ahead. Once I get all the map grids completed I can post a gif file that will allow you to create your own hex maps like TSR's. Later Scooby gemjmd@kodak.com http://www.miniworld.com/adnd/ ------------------------------ From: "Bernhard\"Myrnek\"Schmidt" Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:04:18 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion Hi! Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > The Shadow Elf invasion was not stupid ! Alfheim elf are stupid ! Well, the Shadow Elf Invasion .... It did not serve any good to anyone but perhaps Atzanteotl. The Alfheim Elves lost, who needs a frustrated race hanging around and always complaining about fate, only living to remember good old times? But most of all, the Shadow elves themselves lost the most: Their culture, their private immortal (at least the one described in the gazeteer), their great spell casting powers of the soul crystals, which turn to dust if brought to the surface and they were tossed from the side of "good". And, much more important (at least to players'n'DMs) they lost the mystical flair they had before they were an everyday political power. Now they're just another race of evil - well they already live not far away from the orcs and trolls and other goblinoids. Therefore I have let the Elves where they were, let Rafiel's shamans discover the plot of some overambitious courtiers and sent the king on his journey as a wanderer... ;-) Just my opinion on a certain Invasion ... CU, Bernhard - -- EMail: schmidtb@informatik.tu-muenchen.de On IRC: Myrnek "The bare necessities of life - they'll come to you!" - Baloo ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:30:21 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] spells > In the GAZ series, at least 3 MU spell systems are described: the human one, > the one of Alfheim elves and the one of Shadow elves. > What happens, for example, if a Shadow Elf goes in Glantri and learns Sleep > (i.e. one of the spells unknown in his caves). Can he cast it ? If yes, what > happens when I goes back to his underground realm ? Can he cast the spell > there? Can he sell "Sleep" to other elves ? Yes, yes, and yes... to a point. Common spells (sleep et al.) do trade back and forth (the reasons Shadow Elves have limited access to certain magics are due to their environment and their isolation - their surface spies often do have access to all spells). Radiance magics can't be used outside Glantri (because of their source) and Alfheim magics aren't "book" spells as humans would understand them, they derive from the Tree of Life (and Faeries, since many of the spells overlap). > I don't agree with him, let me know your views. I often go a step farther and say that learning magic outside your culture is hard. For example, Ethengar magics are shamanistic and not even really written down, Traladar magics are more like Russian magic, Alphatian and Flaem magics are alien and elementalist in nature, Ylari magics are physically demanding (dancing and singing), gnomish stuff is based on their pseudo-science, faeries on their immortal nature, etc. It's possible to cross-polinate, but very difficult. It's more useful to just invent a spell in your own paradigm that imitates the foreign spell. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:12:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects > Sea. Wendar is a country of elves to the north of Glantri. The Freeholds > have been described in portions, here and there; I can dig up references > and/or data if you wish. Sure would help. > PC4: Night Howlers: Werebats, Werebears, Wereboars, Werefoxes, Wererats, > Wereseals, Weresharks, Weretigers, Werewolves, Werehogs/Devil Swine. > (Plus rules for any other lycanthrope species.) All sounds the same to me. > > AC10 has new PC races, from waht i've heard. Hollow World has a few new > > ones, too. > I don't know about AC10.. But GAZ10 has most standard humanoids. I meant GAZ10-AC10 I have and is just adventures and descriptions of gnt and dragon culture. Oops. > GAZ10: The Orcs of Thar: Kobolds, Goblins, Orcs, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, > Gnolls, Ogres, Trolls. (Plus rules for any other humanoid species.) What kind of rules? If they are this tall, then this or what? > Hollow World: Warrior Elves, Beastmen, Brute-Men, Hutaakans, Krugel Orcs, > Kubitts, Malpheggi Lizard Men. Warrior Elves are really a class more than a race. Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:54:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects > What is this AC10 that you're talking about? I can't > remember the product numbers of the AC series, but > I think I own them all (including #10) and I can't > remember any product cataloging all of the character > class/races for D&D. > > Do you own this product? If so, what's the title? My mistake-I meant GAZ10. AC10 was the bestiary of gnts and ragons(dragons and gnts?) What are the other Ac books? Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 12:02:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Just a few more questions.. :) > > Does anybody want me to dig up and post a list of all Mystara-based > >products TSR's published? > > That would be great indeed. And availability wouldn't be bad either. I'm > trying really hard for some time now to get all the Gazetteers, which is > quite a deal here in Germany. PS Someone made a list of all modules for Mystara a;lready. I think I have a copy. Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 12:42:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, Bernhard"Myrnek"Schmidt wrote: > Well, the Shadow Elf Invasion .... > It did not serve any good to anyone but perhaps Atzanteotl. > The Alfheim Elves lost, > who needs a frustrated race hanging around and always complaining about > fate, only living to remember good old times? > > But most of all, the Shadow elves themselves lost the most: > Their culture, their private immortal (at least the one described in > the gazeteer), their great spell casting powers of the soul crystals, > which turn to dust if brought to the surface and they were tossed from > the side of "good". And, much more important (at least to players'n'DMs) > they lost the mystical flair they had before they were an everyday > political power. Now they're just another race of evil - well they already > live not far away from the orcs and trolls and other goblinoids. > Therefore I have let the Elves where they were, let Rafiel's shamans discover > the plot of some overambitious courtiers and sent the king on his journey as a wanderer... ;-) I like the invasion. Let me offer a different (somewhat long) take on what happened that might sound a little more interesting... After Alphaks' meteor hit the Glantri/Darokin border, large portions of the Shadow Elves' subterranean domain was destroyed, blocked off, etc. As mentioned in GAZ13, there were already factions that supported invading Alfheim and others that didn't. With the pressure of overpopulation relative to the amount of livable space due to the destruction caused by the meteor, invasion of Alfheim became inevitable. Rather than risk 1) revolution against his shamans and religion by angry shadow elves already stretching the limits of their faith in complying with his "cruel" commandments, and 2) the inevitable investigation and confrontation he'd have with Atzantoetl if he held the shadow elves back, Rafiel decided to support the invasion. This does not make the shadow elves evil, it doesn't destroy their culture, or anything like that. First of all, the shadow elves believe that they were abandoned and neglected by Alfheim, and that they were due claims to land and government. Whether their claims were valid, excessive, or whatever, it is what they thought given their long isolation from foreigners and bitterness at their harsh lives. In the real world, countries go to war and conquer over real or imagined injustices, or for no reason but to expand because they need more land and resources. We don't normally assume that all such countries' peoples are automatically evil, do we? Maybe we have different standards today, but looking at the time of our history that corresponds to AC1000+ Mystara, if we think the Shadow Elves are just plain evil, well then just about the whole real world's people are and have been just plain evil. Not a very useful way of looking at it, I think. Did the shadowelves all move to the former Alfheim? I don't think so. I think they expanded their holdings, that their original culture, magic, use of sould crystals, and Rafiel's project continue below ground, mostly by those who preferred staying below and not invading to begin with. Meanwhile, the pressure of political differences and overpopulation have been vented by a segment of the population moving above ground. So it hasn't worked out too well for them after all, with the tree problems and all. Hey, no one said everything is peached and cream once you conquer the territory. That's life, and if the shadowelves that have migrated have a problem, that's opportunity for more campaign ideas. What if they want to go back underground? There isn't room anymore, perhaps, or maybe the ruler of the abovegroud area doesn't want everyone to run away because she (? it is princess whomever, isn't it?) doesn't want to admit failure at semiautonomous rulership to the opposition that criticized the invasion to begin with? Anyway, there's more to this, but I think you can see how it can be a lot more interesting than the picture painted by many dissatisfied with the invasion. I think it gives Mystara a good kick in the pants to shake up the geopolitical delineations. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ David "Azure" Leland ~~~ azure@cs.oberlin.edu ~~ ~~ Creative Writing, Cognitive Science ~~~ phone/fax: (216) 775-5582 ~~ ~~ Oberlin College ~~~ http://www.oberlin.edu/~dleland ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: lib091@abdn.ac.uk Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 18:50:50 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] spells > In the GAZ series, at least 3 MU spell systems are described: the human one, > the one of Alfheim elves and the one of Shadow elves. > What happens, for example, if a Shadow Elf goes in Glantri and learns Sleep > (i.e. one of the spells unknown in his caves). Can he cast it ? If yes, what > happens when I goes back to his underground realm ? Can he cast the spell > there? Can he sell "Sleep" to other elves ? My guess would be that the NATURE of the magic is different, and that the two elven systems and the human system are wholly different in form. Therefore, although there are spells called "Magic Missile" in all three forms (for example) a human sorcerer could not learn the spells from an elven conjurer, even if they wanted to collaborate. Think about it as being like electricity. There's DC and there's AC, and there's the funny European voltage system. If you take your radio to France and plug it in, it might well go "pop". But it's the same electricity in all three cases. My guess would be that human sorcery comes from the standard writings (ie. spellbooks) but that elven sorcery is more elemental in form, the surface eleves being linked to the land in some way and the shadow elves to the rocks. In some of the systems there are no equivalent spells. So the shadow elves have no sleep spell, as no shadow elf has invented or discovered the means to cast it. Simple. The world is your to do with as you wish, so if you think I'm talking rubbish then fine, ignore me. But don't get bound into doing something that you don't want to do, just because the rules say it's possible. It MIGHT be feasible, in the long-term, for a shadow elf to learn a surface spell. But I reckon it would take an earth-shattering (no pun intended) revelation, along the lines of the discovery of the Rosetta Stone, to enable this to happen. > In Dragon #175 page 46 Bruce Heard states that human cannot use elven magic > and vice versa. > I don't agree with him, let me know your views. Bruce Heard only invented half of the world. You don't HAVE to agree with him. If you want elves and humans to share the same forms of magic then (in the words of someone else entirely) "make it so". All thoughts above are originals. Copyright violations may be purchased for a nominal sum. Steve Scott U of Aberdeen, Scotland ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 15:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion This is concerning all of the recent posting on the Shadow Elf Invasion. David 'Azure' Leland brought up the theory that the meteor crash adversely affected Shadow Elven caverns, thus causing the Shadow Elves to launch their invasion. I believe that even if the meteor did destroy the tunnels, the Shadow Elves were already WELL underway in their invasion. Proof: The meteor crashed in the summer of 1006. The trees in Canolbarth forest had noticebly mutated by Autumn 1006. It would take MUCH longer than three (measly) months to develop spells to destroy Canolbarth forest. Even if the Shadow Elves had already come up with the spell, it would again take much longer than three months for their spells to mutate Canolbarth forest that much. You forget that the Shadow Elves are not just casting dinky spells at ordinary trees. No, the Shadow Elves would have to counter the centuries old magic of Canolbarth forest itself while at the same time slowly destroying dozens of Trees of Life -- high-powered artifacts that help to maintain the Canolbarth. Even if Rafiel helped to power the magic, time is still a factor. And I assure you that it would take vastly longer than three months to create any visible change in Canolbarth, much less the complete mutation of the trees. ------------------------------ From: Jason Zavoda Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:27:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Just a few more questions.. :) Please send both lists.I think it would be interesting to compare them. I currently have about 90%+ of all published TSR material and will gladly look up any information that is in my collection. Jason Zavoda On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > > Does anybody want me to dig up and post a list of all Mystara-based > > >products TSR's published? > > > > That would be great indeed. And availability wouldn't be bad either. I'm > > trying really hard for some time now to get all the Gazetteers, which is > > quite a deal here in Germany. > > PS Someone made a list of all modules for Mystara a;lready. I think I > have a copy. > > Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly > Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore > (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) > > ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:32:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, Mistress wrote: > This is concerning all of the recent posting on the Shadow Elf Invasion. > > David 'Azure' Leland brought up the theory that the meteor crash adversely > affected Shadow Elven caverns, thus causing the Shadow Elves to launch > their invasion. > I believe that even if the meteor did destroy the tunnels, the Shadow Elves > were already WELL underway in their invasion. Proof: The meteor crashed in > the summer of 1006. The trees in Canolbarth forest had noticebly mutated > by Autumn 1006. It would take MUCH longer than three (measly) months to > develop spells to destroy Canolbarth forest. Even if the Shadow Elves had > already come up with the spell, it would again take much longer than three > months for their spells to mutate Canolbarth forest that much. You forget > that the Shadow Elves are not just casting dinky spells at ordinary trees. > No, the Shadow Elves would have to counter the centuries old magic of Canolbarth > forest itself while at the same time slowly destroying dozens of Trees of > Life -- high-powered artifacts that help to maintain the Canolbarth. Even > if Rafiel helped to power the magic, time is still a factor. And I assure > you that it would take vastly longer than three months to create any > visible change in Canolbarth, much less the complete mutation of the trees. Your point is well taken, although I don't believe I said that there was no invasion taking place until after the meteor strike. Clearly in GAZ13 there is a description of efforts to infiltrate Alfheim. Even back in GAZ5 the infiltration of Alfheim communities is mentioned. What may have changed (and again, this is a matter of individual interpretation, not gospel, as I'm concerned with the invasion being a viably interesting campaign event) is that Rafiel went all out to support it at the time mentioned in WotI. It is not as if political segments of a country necessarily ask permission of everyone else before committing acts of terrorism or sabotage. Quite the contrary. The mutation of the forest could have started as long ago as one wants to think, since there are plenty of shadowelves who have wanted to exact vengeance upon the Alfheim elves for a long time. Also, I think the matter of how long it would take to corrupt the forest is wide open to speculation. The Canolbarth may be centuries old, but the magic (weatherchange spell) that transformed it into a forest of gigantic oaks took no more than a century, not hundreds of years (see GAZ5, p.16-17). And, it's up to each individual to decide, but I don't see a problem with the forest mutating so quickly, once an Immortal gets into the picture. It takes less time to destroy/corrupt things than it does to create them. Think of a tower of blocks, or more relevant, the rain forests in South America. So no, I haven't forgotten what kind of the trees the Canolbarth has nor the magnitude of the spell power the shadowelves must have used, and I'm afraid your assurance that it would take X amount of time to do Y damage to the forest doesn't seem very relevant to me. I was not proposing a theory in the sense that I think that there is a certain way things clearly happened to make the invasion sensible and interesting. We're dealing with a fantasy world created by multiple authors which is of limited internal consistency. My intent was to show how the invasion COULD be worthwhile in a campaign, not how it HAS to be. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ David "Azure" Leland ~~~ azure@cs.oberlin.edu ~~ ~~ Creative Writing, Cognitive Science ~~~ phone/fax: (216) 775-5582 ~~ ~~ Oberlin College ~~~ http://www.oberlin.edu/~dleland ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 22:41:54 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] spells At 18.50 10/01/96 +0000, you wrote: >> In the GAZ series, at least 3 MU spell systems are described: the human one, >> the one of Alfheim elves and the one of Shadow elves. >> What happens, for example, if a Shadow Elf goes in Glantri and learns Sleep >> (i.e. one of the spells unknown in his caves). Can he cast it ? If yes, what >> happens when I goes back to his underground realm ? Can he cast the spell >> there? Can he sell "Sleep" to other elves ? > >My guess would be that the NATURE of the magic is different, and that the two >elven systems and the human system are wholly different in form. Therefore, >although there are spells called "Magic Missile" in all three forms (for >example) a human sorcerer could not learn the spells from an elven conjurer, >even if they wanted to collaborate. > >Think about it as being like electricity. There's DC and there's AC, and >there's the funny European voltage system. If you take your radio to France and >plug it in, it might well go "pop". But it's the same electricity in all three >cases. > Perhaps your radio, my radio works well in France too :-) >My guess would be that human sorcery comes from the standard writings (ie. >spellbooks) but that elven sorcery is more elemental in form, the surface eleves >being linked to the land in some way and the shadow elves to the rocks. In some >of the systems there are no equivalent spells. So the shadow elves have no >sleep spell, as no shadow elf has invented or discovered the means to cast it. >Simple. The world is your to do with as you wish, so if you think I'm talking >rubbish then fine, ignore me. But don't get bound into doing something that >you don't want to do, just because the rules say it's possible. > I think you're right in some way about the different nature of human-elvish spellcasting. My opinion is that magic is someway linked to the place where you are casting the spell, I make an example: a sleep spell could not work well underground, as a fire ball doesn't work well underwater, because it (the sleep spell) is linked to something found only on the outer world. It's a possible explanation, maybe a little entangled. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #27 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #28 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 10 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 028 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 22:41:47 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] spells At 11.30 10/01/96 AST, you wrote: >> In the GAZ series, at least 3 MU spell systems are described: the human one, >> the one of Alfheim elves and the one of Shadow elves. >> What happens, for example, if a Shadow Elf goes in Glantri and learns Sleep >> (i.e. one of the spells unknown in his caves). Can he cast it ? If yes, what >> happens when I goes back to his underground realm ? Can he cast the spell >> there? Can he sell "Sleep" to other elves ? > > Yes, yes, and yes... to a point. Common spells (sleep et al.) do >trade back and forth (the reasons Shadow Elves have limited >access to certain magics are due to their environment and their >isolation - their surface spies often do have access to all spells). >Radiance magics can't be used outside Glantri (because of their >source) and Alfheim magics aren't "book" spells as humans would >understand them, they derive from the Tree of Life (and Faeries, >since many of the spells overlap). > Ok, I was just talking of common spells normaly unavailable to certain races, often because of their isolation (as it is the case for the sleep spell unknown by Shadow elves, Alfheim elves, and immortals know to what other races...). >> I don't agree with him, let me know your views. > > I often go a step farther and say that learning magic outside >your culture is hard. For example, Ethengar magics are shamanistic >and not even really written down, Traladar magics are more like >Russian magic, Alphatian and Flaem magics are alien and elementalist >in nature, Ylari magics are physically demanding (dancing and >singing), gnomish stuff is based on their pseudo-science, faeries on >their immortal nature, etc. It's possible to cross-polinate, but >very difficult. It's more useful to just invent a spell in your own >paradigm that imitates the foreign spell. > Yes, I agree with you, but:1) not all Ethengarian spellcasters are shamans, there are also Hakomons. They are few and live out of clans, but nervertheless they exist. 2) Alphatian are an alien race, but their magical system is not dissimilar from the "Glantrian" one. > > HICKEY MATTHEW > St.Thomas University > Fredericton, N.B., Canada > Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca > > ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 22:42:06 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Greetings >What I want to find out in this mailing list is, if any more products from >TSR come up, or if the line will be cancelled (my personal nightmare) and >how other people's campaigns look like. Tell me about your campaigns, >please. I'm always looking for some ideas, as it's hard to get old Mystara >articles like the Gazetteers in Germany. Anybody got information about >Akorros? My players plan a trip there, you know. >Glory for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! It's hard to get the Gazzetteers in Italy too, however I own 13 of them (if only I could find Gaz8...). But that's my problem, not yours. You said Akorros... I got Gaz11 where I can find a half page about Akorros, but that's not very interesting stuff especially if you don't read Gaz11 fully. I can send something to you, let me know what you need (general info, maps,...). Maybe, if your campaign is set after WOTI those information may be a bit outdated. My campaign ? I have a party of three Shadow Elves. Currently (1002) they're on the surface, in Glantri. Some years ago I had a party of 3 Karameikans, but then two of them stopped playing and the group was broken. By the way: we still play with OD&D rules. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 22:42:00 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion At 12.42 10/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, Bernhard"Myrnek"Schmidt wrote: > >> Well, the Shadow Elf Invasion .... >> It did not serve any good to anyone but perhaps Atzanteotl. >> The Alfheim Elves lost, >> who needs a frustrated race hanging around and always complaining about >> fate, only living to remember good old times? >> >> But most of all, the Shadow elves themselves lost the most: >> Their culture, their private immortal (at least the one described in >> the gazeteer), their great spell casting powers of the soul crystals, >> which turn to dust if brought to the surface and they were tossed from >> the side of "good". And, much more important (at least to players'n'DMs) >> they lost the mystical flair they had before they were an everyday >> political power. Now they're just another race of evil - well they already >> live not far away from the orcs and trolls and other goblinoids. >> Therefore I have let the Elves where they were, let Rafiel's shamans discover >> the plot of some overambitious courtiers and sent the king on his journey as a wanderer... ;-) > Maybe the invasion wasn't an "outstanding success", because the forest now seems dark and inhospitable, perhaps very different from what the Shadow Elves were dreaming. However it wasn't stupid. > I like the invasion. Let me offer a different (somewhat long) >take on what happened that might sound a little more interesting... > After Alphaks' meteor hit the Glantri/Darokin border, large >portions of the Shadow Elves' subterranean domain was destroyed, blocked >off, etc. As mentioned in GAZ13, there were already factions that >supported invading Alfheim and others that didn't. With the pressure of >overpopulation relative to the amount of livable space due to the >destruction caused by the meteor, invasion of Alfheim became inevitable. >Rather than risk 1) revolution against his shamans and religion by angry >shadow elves already stretching the limits of their faith in complying >with his "cruel" commandments, and 2) the inevitable investigation and >confrontation he'd have with Atzantoetl if he held the shadow elves back, >Rafiel decided to support the invasion. This is great, maybe I'll use your version when my PC will play WOTI. However, when talking about Rafiel, don't forget that is was allied with Rad, while Ilsundal was allied with Ixion if I remember well. > This does not make the shadow elves evil, it doesn't destroy >their culture, or anything like that. First of all, the shadow elves >believe that they were abandoned and neglected by Alfheim, and that they >were due claims to land and government. Whether their claims were valid, >excessive, or whatever, it is what they thought given their long >isolation from foreigners and bitterness at their harsh lives. In the >real world, countries go to war and conquer over real or imagined >injustices, or for no reason but to expand because they need more land >and resources. We don't normally assume that all such countries' peoples >are automatically evil, do we? Maybe we have different standards today, >but looking at the time of our history that corresponds to AC1000+ >Mystara, if we think the Shadow Elves are just plain evil, well then just >about the whole real world's people are and have been just plain evil. >Not a very useful way of looking at it, I think. I agree, from Alfheim point of view Shadow Elves are evil, but the vice versa is also true. > Did the shadowelves all move to the former Alfheim? I don't think >so. I think they expanded their holdings, that their original culture, >magic, use of sould crystals, and Rafiel's project continue below ground, >mostly by those who preferred staying below and not invading to begin >with. Meanwhile, the pressure of political differences and overpopulation >have been vented by a segment of the population moving above ground. So >it hasn't worked out too well for them after all, with the tree problems >and all. Hey, no one said everything is peached and cream once you >conquer the territory. That's life, and if the shadowelves that have >migrated have a problem, that's opportunity for more campaign ideas. >What if they want to go back underground? There isn't room anymore, >perhaps, or maybe the ruler of the abovegroud area doesn't want everyone >to run away because she (? it is princess whomever, isn't it?) doesn't >want to admit failure at semiautonomous rulership to the opposition that >criticized the invasion to begin with? Population in the underground realm before WOTI: 550,000 (Gaz 13) Population in City of the Stars before WOTI: 250,000 (Gaz 13) Population in City of the Stars after WOTI: 125,000 (AC 1010) Population in the underground realm after WOTI: 425,000 (AC 1012) Population in Aengmor after WOTI: 125,000 (AC 1012) In short: half of the Shadow Elves population migrated to the new colony. Probably the shamans stayed below where they can use their crystals, whether less religious people went to the surface where they don't resent the control of shamans. > Anyway, there's more to this, but I think you can see how it can >be a lot more interesting than the picture painted by many dissatisfied >with the invasion. I think it gives Mystara a good kick in the pants to >shake up the geopolitical delineations. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >~~ David "Azure" Leland ~~~ azure@cs.oberlin.edu ~~ >~~ Creative Writing, Cognitive Science ~~~ phone/fax: (216) 775-5582 ~~ >~~ Oberlin College ~~~ http://www.oberlin.edu/~dleland ~~ >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:17:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Re: Preliminary Timeline 1/5 I'm pretty sure there are mistakes, and positive there are typos, but here it is: 6000 BC: There is no true civilization in the Outer World. Humans are tribal hunter-gatherers, living mostly in plains and light forests. Dwarves are barbaric mountain and foothill dwellers, mostly goatherds. Elves are sheltered, protected and nurtured by the forest-spirits they worship; they do not need to work or suffer. There are no monstrous humanoids on the world to threaten the demihumans. 5000 BC: The childhood of the elves is over; the forest spirits stop sheltering them, forcing them to leave paradise and to seek their own futures. The first great elf civilization, Evergrun, develops on the southern continent in areas now under the southern icecap. Far across the galaxy, on another world, a race of pale-skinned humans called the Alphatians begin to rise to preeminence and to study mighty magics. 4500 BC: Beastmen - reincarnated souls of evil beings - appear in the Borean Valley, a frozen land north of Blackmoor. These beastmen are wild, chaotic creatures that do not breed true; whelps may have some or none of the traits of their parents, may be of different size and appearance. This is all brought about by the magic of Hel, an Immortal of the sphere of Entropy, who wants to introduce more confusion, dismay, and death into the world. 4000 BC: The human Blackmoor civilization begins a meteoric rise due to its great success in developing powerful sciences and technologies. It conquers and assimilates all surrounding human tribes and quickly grows very powerful. Another human civilization, the Oltecs, begins a more stately rise toward civilization in lands far to the south of Blackmoor. Protected by deep forests and sheltering hills, they do not have any communication with Blackmoor. On the Alphatians' world, the Alphatians defeat the Cypris civilization... and begin to be assimilated by it. 3850 BC: A group of warlike, flatland tribes are colonized by the Oltecs. These tribes fiercely cling to their distinct heritage in spite of the Oltec conquerors. 3500 BC: The Blackmoor civilization is flourishing. It conducts trade and intermittent war with the southern elves, at the other end of the world. Four clans of elves colonize in the region near Blackmoor. Both the southern and the colonial elves e mbrace Blackmoor's technology. Blackmoor priests demand the extermination of the "unnatural" beastmen in the Borean Valley, and promote holy wars to hunt down and destroy those creatures. Following a failed military coup, a rift occurs in the Oltec civilization; the more aggressive Azcan tribes declare their independence and begin to wage war on the Oltecs. According to modern Azcan histories, the hated former masters were overthrown and enslaved. In fact, the Oltecs and Azcans exist side by side for almost five centuries, alternating war and commerce, until outside forces literally destroy the world they know. The widespread Neathar race is beginning to undergo development; the language in individual areas changes rapidly into very different dialects, and the independent Neathar tribes no longer recognize a kinship or a common origin among themselves. On the Alphatians' world, the Alphatian/Cypris civilization uses its magical knowledge to begin colonization and conquest of nearby planets and exploration of the elemental planes. 3200 BC: The Blackmoor crusades drive the Beastmen farther north, into the land called Hyperborea; they adapt to the colder climate and survive. 3100 BC: Aquarendi elves seek the guardianship of Manwara, an Immortal of the Sea, and enter the warm waters to begin a new life. 3000 BC: Some Blackmoor devices explode, shifting the axis of the Known World in an event later called the Great Rain of Fire or the Planetshift. Blackmoor becomes the north pole and its civilization disappears. The elven civilization becomes the south pole; the elves are able to migrate to the area called Grunland (which now begins centuries of volcanic upheaval that lead to its being renamed Vulcania). These southern-continent elves, though suffering hardship, are not in immediate danger of extinction and so none are taken to the Hollow World. Melting ice caps raise ocean level by several hundred feet. Lowland marshes and coastal plains along the southern edge of the northern continent are flooded. Survivors of the elven colony near Blackmoor flee to the newly-formed Broken Lands; they burrow deep into the ground to survive the aftereffects of the Great Rain of Fire. These are the ancestors of the Shadow Elves. The ice caps recede from the southern edge of the continent of Brun. Spirits are drawn in to merge with the world. One of the most dangerous Blackmoor devices is left untouched in the Broken Lands. The Great Rain of Fire is seen by Azcans and Oltecs alike as an important part of their mysticism: the End of the Fifth Sun. The Immortals magically transplant large numbers of these peoples to the Hollow World to save them. The shark-kin, after spending thousands of years on the land, return to the sea. On the Alphatians' world, Alphatian aggression has gradually supplanted by Cypric self-absorption; other-planetary conquests and colonies are left to fend for themselves as Alphatian study of magic turns inward. 3000 - 2500 BC: Formerly arctic areas of the Known World, including most of the lands covered in the Gazetteer series, slowly become habitable as the ice recedes from former polar regions. 2900 BC: The Immortal named Garal Glitterlode created the gnomish race, planting colonies of them in the land that would later become Rockhome and the mountains of the northern continent. 2800 BC: New elven nation on the southern continent land of Vulcania divides on magic vs. technology. A separatist branch of the southern elves, led by Ilsundal the Wise, decides to abandon Blackmoor technology and return to the nature-oriented magic of their ancestors. They begin a long migration northward in the hope of finding the lost colony of elves that had settled near Blackmoor. Azcans and Oltecs on the outer world have practically vanished, dispersed across the world and culturally transformed in every case. A small number of survivors take refuge in the caves of a mighty plateau. These are the ancestors of the modern Atruaghin Clan. This plateau, although impressive, is nowhere near as grand as the one that now stands in the lands north of the Sea of Dread. They retain a dim memory, retold and altered into myth and folklore, of Azcan and Oltec glory and strife. They also remember the mysterious disappearance of many kin. 2500 BC: Gnomes and dwarves enter the Northern Reaches region and settle in its hills and mountains as the continental ice sheets recede. The Taymora humans settle the southern shores of the northern continent. Climatic changes due to the axial shift have rendered the lands of Blackmoor and the elves uninhabital. In Vulcania, the elvish civilization is losing its battle with the elements; it has forgotten most of its magic and its Blackmoor technology is failing. A second separatist group of southern elves begins its long march northward. 2400 BC: The land that was Hyborea is now warming up; the Beastmen migrate to the area that was once Blackmoor, which is now the northern pole, and thrive there. They are beginning to breed true, in recognizable species. The tribes gather at Urzud. A great volcanic explosion occurs in Vulcania, destroying the remnants of the southern elvish civilization. A human culture, the Antalian tribes (descendants of the Neathar) are flourishing in the area later to be called Norwold. They are a blond, warlike culture with bronze weapons and armor. 2200 BC: Some elves break off from Ilsundal's migration and eventually find their way to the frozen valleys of Glantri, where they settle. A few survivors from the second migration from Vulcania also reach Glantri and settle among their cousins. 2100 BC: Meditor and Verdier elf clans leave Ilsundal's northward migrations and settle in southern Traldar lands (Karameikos). The main force of Ilsundal's migration reaches the Sylvan Realm, far to the west of lands such as Karameikos and Thyatis. 2000 BC: The Beastmen have now evolved into the modern species of orcs, goblins, ogres, giants, and trolls. The Ethengars arrive on the fertile lands of the Steppes. First human settlements in the coastal and island lowlands of the Northern Reaches. 2000 - 1750 BC: An agricultural settlement flourishes along the River Nithia. It swiftly becomes the seat of a fast-growing culture. Tribal humans, swarthy descendants of Oltec and Neathar tribes, also settle in the coastal and island lowlands of the Northern Reaches, in the Ethengar Steppes. Antalian colonists migrate southward into the lands later to be called the Northern Reaches. 1900 BC: On the great continent to the east of Alphatia and Bellissaria, a nomadic, cavalry-based race of warriors grows strong. These are the Jennites, copper-skinned descendants of an Oltec expeditionary party; their language and customs have evolved far away from their Oltec origins. 1800 BC: The dwarfish race on the Known World is slowly, inevitably dying out. The Immortal called Kagyar the Artisan takes all remaining dwarves in the Known World. Half he transplants to the Hollow World, and half he reshapes into a new dwarven race. Now there are no remnants of the original dwarven race on the outer world. Some of the "new dwarves" are returned to the Northern Reaches, where the largest dwarf colonies had been, and eventually become the Modrigswerg clans; others are planted in the Rockhome region. Both groups are given false memories and believe that the Modrigswerg dwarves also originally lived in the Rockhome lands. In the Sylvan Realm, Ilsundal creates the first elvish Tree of Life and becomes an Immortal. The Steel Wars divide the humanoid tribes.Plague, famine, and massacres ravage Urzud, and the population dwindles. 1750 - 1500 BC: The human tribes along the River Nithia progress from Bronze Age to Iron Age metals technology. A jackal-headed creature named Pflarr achieves Immortality. 1725 BC: King Loark of the humanoids organizes an army of humanoids known as the Great Horde. They migrate southeastward into the lands of men, ravaging as they go, continuing Loark's Quest for a Blue Knife. Great waves of hill goblins, trolls, and giants especially begin moving southward into areas now occupied by human settlers. 1722 BC: The Great Horde of King Loark ravages Norwold and learns Norse culture, sending the Antalian culture there into a dark age; the Immortals Odin and Thor send intact communities of Antalians into the Hollow World. (The descendants of the outer-world Antalians eventually become the men of the Heldann Freeholds.) 1720 BC: Akilla-Khan conquers the southern steppes of Ethengar. 1711 BC: Great Horde reaches pre-khanate Ethengar. Akilla-Khan allies with King Loark against the Ethengarian nomads. 1710 BC: The Great Horde of King Loark invades the Ethengar Steppes and enslaves the primitive Ethengars. King Loark's horde is joined by Akilla-Khan's humanoid horde. Together they ravage the steppes. 1709 BC: Akilla-Khan betrays King Loark in exchange for lands west of the Dol-Anur. The Great Horde is defeated at the Battle of Chongor, in ancient Ethengar. King Loark's Great Horde splinters; the trolls head east, the goblins south, and the rest of the Great Horde is driven out of the steppes into the Broken Lands and settles there. 1700 BC: The elves of Glantri discover, in the Broken Lands, a strange artifact from the lost Blackmoor civilization. They tinker with it, and the artifact explodes cataclysmically, sending impenetrable clouds into the sky (which last for years), and spreading a strange rotting plague among the surviving elves - those who were far enough away to survive. The elves shelter themselves in the deepest caves of Glantri. They find an incredible series of caverns there and begin a years-long migration. The traveling tribes are separated from one another. These are the ancestors of the Hollow World's Gentle Folk, Icevale Elves, and the Schattenalfen. A fourth group, led by an elf named Atziann, had no survivors save that king. Some emerge, years later, hundreds of miles south, past the Broken lands. Some perish. The catastrophe forms the Land of the Black Sand in the Ethengar Steppes. Elsewhere, a series of great volcanic eruptions and earthquakes split several large land masses away from what is now the Five Shires and Atruaghin Clans area; aboriginal (Neathar-descended) peoples called the Makai and lizardmen called Malpheggi are tranded on the new islands. The Taymora civilization is destroyed. The plateau under which the surviving Azcans have been living largely collapses, killing many of them and leaving the survivors in a shattered, hostile land. Meditor elves are stranded on the newly formed Minrothad Isles. The local cataclysm rakes the Broken Lands and buries the Great Horde. King Loark dies, and his horde breaks apart. Giants, trolls, and gnolls are driven south into the Northern Reaches in successive waves of migration. 1691 BC: Baka betrays Akilla-Khan and drives his humanoids into the Broken Lands. 1690 BC: Akilla-Khan builds a fortress in the Broken Lands, and starts raiding Glantri and Ethengar borders. 1688 BC: Akilla-Khan retires from the world and becomes an Immortal, He takes the name of Yagrai. Unaware of the truth, Ethengarians rejoice. Baka declared Khan of all Ethengars. 1681 BC: Baka Khan is poisoned. The Ethengars war over his successor. The War of Succession starts. 1680 BC: Land masses split further, forming 10 islands south of the Five Shires. Verdier elves build ships and join their cousins, the Meditor clan, in the Sea of Dread. 1675 BC: Tahkati Stormtamer unites the tribes that are now known as the Children of the Horse and leads them in conquest of the other tribes that now make up the Atruaghin Clans. Eventually, he becomes an Immortal. 1650 BC: Atziann, king and sole survivor of a clan of Glantri elves who had been driven underground, comes across the Hollow World Azcans, emerging near Chitlacan. Fascinated by these people, he spends several years among them (in disguise) and studying their ways before leaving to pursue his dream of Immortality. 1600 BC: Tensions erupt between the two largest Jennite hordes: One horde, the more traditional of the two, has woman warriors, while the other has virtually enslaved its women. The Immortal Tarastia enjoins the more traditional horde to conquer the other, but the resulting holy war all but destroys Jennite civilization. (By the time the Alphatians reach the Known World, six centuries later, the outer-world Jennites have regressed to stone-age barbarism, their previous glory all but forgotten.) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:19:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Preliminary Timeline 2/5 1500 BC: Nithian culture begins its climb to greatness. One colonial expedition led by the Nithian Traldar clan travels to the lands now known as Karameikos. As these colonies spread out, they become the first humans to inhabit Darokin. The Immortal Pflarr creates a jackal-headed servitor-race he calls the Hutaaka. He uses many of them as agents, heralds, and servants throughout the known world; he plants a large colony of them in mountains south of the Nithians. Modest Bronze Age human cultures in the eastern lowlands of the Northern Reaches. Sophisticated gnomish and dwarven cultures co-exist with primitive giantish clans in the western uplands of the Northern Reaches. The elf, Atziann attains Immortality and adopts the Azcan form of his name, Atzanteotl, "Atziann the Divine." He begins whispering to the priests that rule Azcan society and selected subterranean elves, turning them to evil and entropy. Only Atruatzin, the Azcan priest-king, who would later become Atruaghin, resists the Immortal. On the Alphatians' world, the civilization has achieved total mastery of its environment; the great universities are at the peak of their powers and just beginning to indulge in serious scholastic competitions and squabbles. 1494 BC: A terrible plague strikes Chitlacan, killing almost two thirds of its population. Atruatzin, himself a survivor of the disease, and his most faithful followers are driven out of Chitlacan by his philosophical and political rivals (who follow Atzanteotl). They settle in the fortress of Quauhnahuac. 1484 BC: Driven by the whispers of Atzanteotl, and his own fear that Atruatzin might reclaim the throne, the treacherous Azcan usurper leads an massive assault on Quauhnhuac. Everyone found in the fortress is slain or sacrifices, but there is no trace of Atruatzin or his inner circle. The priests curse the land on which Quauhnahuac is built, and sow salt among the ruins. 1470 BC: The Chochomecs (an Azcan tribe) desert Atacalpa, migrating to Oltec lands of the east. 1468 BC: Atruatzin and his loyal companions find a resting-place, where they establish a temple to the old gods. They name it Mictlan, the "Land of the Dead." 1420 BC: The underground elven wanderers stumble upon Mictlan, and overthrow the humans. Those elves who have been seduced by Atzanteotl declare that the temple is sacred to him, and he has given them victory over their enemies and a place to call home. These elves become the Schattenalfen. Most of the elves are uneasy about this alien Immortal, but they are weary, and so they settle and build the city of Aengmor. All of Atruatzin's followers are slain; he alone escapes. 1410 BC: Atruatzin reaches the surface world in his quest for meaning in his life. He finds the lost descendants of the surface world Azcans and Oltecs living in the shattered lands north of the Sea of Dread. 1400 BC: Within a few generations, the Traldar settlers have suffered enormous population losses (through bad winters, animal attacks, and disease), have lost most of the materials and time necessary to forge metal (and consequently have forgotten how), and have reverted to a pre-agrarian lifestyle. They now fall under the domination of the Hutaaka humanoid people from the northern mountainous region. Denwarf, golem-like leader of the Known World's dwarves, settles his people in the great cavern called Dengar and disappears into the lower caverns. A group of Schattenalfen are driven out of Aengmor (by the will of their patron). They retrace an earlier expedition's path to the Hollow World. Atruatzin, who now calls himself Atruaghin, unites the warring tribes he lives among. His skill as a warrior and leader makes the a challenging, but not impossible task. The newly unified people begin to call themselves the Children of Atruaghin - the outside world calls them the Atruaghin Clans. 1395 BC: After an unsuccessful bid to unseat the Kogolor dwarves, the Schattenalfen move on to settle near the Azcans, with whom they immediately make war. Atzanteotl delights in and encourages the instant, uncompromising enmity among his followers. 1310 BC: Quest for Steel; Wogar Tribe migrates west from Blackmoor to a great lake, called the Cradle. 1305 BC: Prophecy from King Wogar's Great Shaman; Wogar Tribe moves south, along a major river, following the Great Shaman's floating gri-gri. 1300 BC: The halflings from the southern continent, long-abandoned by their friends the elves, and increasingly endangered by the ever-growing human population, make a mass naval migration to the northern continent. They settle the area later called the Five Shires. They become friends with a declining, pacifistic clan of elves called the Gentle Folk. 1299 BC: Vestland trolls miss a turn and pop-up in Broken Lands. Trollhattan is founded. Bagni Gullymaw eats an elephant. Nithia enslaves the Black Moon horde of trolls. 1296 BC: Ogres kill King Wogar's Great Shaman at the Battle of Khuzud, and flee with his treasure. They settle in the Sind Desert and learn local culture. 1290 BC: The outer-world Shadow Elf city of Aengmor is "destroyed" (actually, merely surrounded by lava and made uninhabitable) during a volcanic eruption; many Schattenalfen escape, burrowing deeper into the crust of the earth. Actually, this is part of a grand scheme of Atzanteotl, their patron. 1270 BC: Great Drought dries up the ogres' wells in Sind. The ogres migrate east, devastating and enslaving Sind villages. 1269 BC: Ogres settle in Broken Lands. They found Ogremoor. 1265 BC: Ahmanni Turtlerider and Atruaghin become lovers. Atruaghin's ageless nature becomes apparent, making marraige between them impossible. 1263 BC: Wogar becomes an Immortal. His tribe continues along the coast to Atruaghin. They learn the use of feathers, war paints, light cavalry tactics, and scalping. 1260 BC Atruaghin leaves the Atruaghin Clans to explore the surface world in a search for the nature of his seemingly eternal youth. He appoints new chiefs to each of the Clans and establishes the Words of Atruaghin that his people live by to this day. 1259 BC: Tahkati Stormtamer, now an Immortal, agrees to help Atzanteotl in destroying the work that Atruaghin has done in uniting the Atruaghin Clans. 1257 BC: Wogar Tribe,Red Orcs, conquers and enslaves the people of the Atruaghin Clans. Their rule is oppressive and savage. Tahkati Stormtamer realizes that he has been betrayed by Atzanteotl and breaks all ties with the Immortals of Entropy. He vows vengeance. 1254 BC: Wogar Tribe splits into three nations. One settles south of Atruaghin, another in the Five Shires. The last goes north, and torches a trading post called Akorros, then moves to central Broken Lands. 1190 BC: Descendants of the Great Horde resurface in the Broken Lands. The Tribes meet again and discover the Rock of Oenkmar and a knife they mistake for one of their legendary artifacts. End of the Quest for a Blue Knife. Truce proclaimed. 1104 BC: Underground elves discover the Refuge of Stone and take the name of shadow elves unto themselves. Building work begins on the City of Stars. 1100 BC: Nithians lead by Minroth colonize the islands later to be called the Minrothad islands, and found Harbortown. Nithians under Prince Ramenhotep establish the colony of Thothia on the Isle of Dawn. This is the eastern extent of Nithian colonization. 1090 BC: On the Alphatians' world, the Followers of Flame begin their serious rivalry with the Followers of Air. 1050 BC: Great wizards of the Nithians, inspired by the Immortal Pflarr's servant race (the Hutaaka), create the gnoll race by magically blending trolls and gnomes. But they've been deluded that the results might be an equivalent servant-race for the Nithians; instead, the gnolls turn out to be savage, strong, warlike, and prolific. They rebel; they escape and later invade Karameikos. Nithian priests visit the Shamans of Oenkmar. Atzanteotl is increasingly offended. 1027 BC: On the Alphatians' world, sporadic violence breaks out between the Followers of Flame and Followers of Air. 1010 BC: On the Alphatians' world, a temporary peace results from one academian's proposal of the Flame vs. Air essay debate. 1009 BC: On the Alphatians' world, Emperor Alphaks I arbitrarily declares the Flames to have won the debate. Outrage, protest, rebellion and revolt result; the Followers of Flame war with the Followers of Air. 1000 BC: The Broken Lands are overpopulated. Broken Lands orcs, ogres, trolls, gnolls, and goblins migrate outward, especially southward, displacing other humanoid tribes before them. All forces hoin and raid Rockhome; they are defeated by dwarven King Blystar III. Minor raids go on for 500 years. Orcs from the Broken Lands invade and conquer the region now known as the Five Shires. Their reign is brutal, to say the least. Gnolls cross southern Darokin and invade Traldar lands, destroying their Golden Age. Most of the Darokin humans flee north, right into orc territory, where few survive. The Hutaakans retreat to their valley while the Traldar and gnolls practically anhilate one another. By the time the gnolls retreat, the Traldar population is 20% of its pre-invasion amount. Many seafaring Traldar, led by a lesser king named Milen, flee south across the Sea of Dread, and reach the southern continent to the east of what would later be called the Hinterlands. They travel far upriver, and establish a new kingdom there. Elsewhere, nonhuman tribal movements pit tribes of orcs and goblins against the dwarves. The Nithian Empire is at its peak; it is the first post-Blackmoor empire in the world. It features monumental architecture, large urban complexes in the delta region of the River Nithia, conquest of neighboring states, establishment of more remote colonies, and the development of sophisticated arts and culture. Colonies are planted in the Makai islands (south of the Five Shires area), where they conquer the aboriginal natives. The humans of the Northern Reaches areas are conquered and enslaved by the Nithian Empire. The Nithians, made curious about the southern continent by the Traldar flight in that direction, transport many Northern Reaches slaves to Harbortown and thence to the southern continent, to colonize there. This is the southern limit of Nithian expansion, and it isn't very successful; The Northern Reaches slaves soon rebel and slay their Nithian overlords. These tribes carve out their own territory in the southern continent, and are the forefathers of the Thyatian, Kerendan and Hattian tribes who later found the empire of Thyatis. Black explorers from Tangor find and colonize the Pearl Islands. On the Alphatians' world, the war between the Followers of Air and Followers of Flame reaches its zenith. The Followers of Flame are defeated. Alphaks is banished. Old Alphatia is destroyed; the Followers of Air come to the Known World to settle on the great continent they name Alphatia, bringing along natural strains of wolf and tiger lycanthropy. They proceed to build a mighty empire based on magic. 1000 - 610 BC: Orcs, part of the migration from the Broken Lands, invade the Five Shires region and enslave the halflings. The Gentle Folk elves of the Five Shires region disappear or are destroyed by the orcs. Over a period of four hundred years, the halflings are conquered and reconquered by orcs, dwarves, and bandits of different races; eventually they reclaim their land and establish a strong kingdom. 900 BC: Atruaghin returns to the Hollow World briefly. He visits the ruins of Quauhnahuac and uses his ever increasing power to create Atruaghin's Mystic Conveyor, a powerful magical artifact the links the Known and Hollow Worlds. 800 BC: The ice finally recedes to the north of Glantri. Elves led by Mealiden Starwatcher leave the Sylvan Realm via the magical rainbow; they carry nine seedlings of the tree of life with them. They land in the forested regions of what would later be called Thyatis, but are driven out by the warlike humans there, and flee northward. The Callarii clan settles in Traladara territory; most of the rest settle in a windy steppes area. Elvish wizards begin to alter those steppes with their magic, changing the land nearly overnight into terrain where a mighty forest could flourish. In the process, they drive orcs from the open lands to the west. One of the elf-clans, the Shiye, listens to the guidance of the elf-immortal Eiryndul and makes a dangerous crossing to the continent of Alphatia, where they set up their own kingdom in the deep central forests of that continent. Using the artifact he constructed at Quauhnahuac, Atruaghin returns from his exploration of the Known and Hollow Worlds to lead his adopted people in a revolt against the Red Orcs. The conflict is savage, but in the end the Children of Atruaghin are successful. Deep in the southern continent, the Milenians, descendants of the Traldar, are flourishing, conquering the surrounding tribes, and establishing a strong empire. Human clans begin building permanent settlements in Darokin. 795 BC: Atruaghin recalls the memory of that great plateau that once stood in the lands of his people. Using magics and powers that he has aquired from his travels throughout the Known and Hollow Worlds, he calls it back into existance that the Children of Atruaghin might never again fear invasion. Atruaghin, having completed the Path of the Polymath, becomes an Immortal in the Sphere of Thought in recognition of his lifelong struggle against entropy. 792 BC: Atzanteotl begins to turn Danel Tigerstripes against Atruaghin and his followers. Atruaghin sends Hattani Stoneclaw, leader of the Bear Clan, to prevent his corruption. The intervention is too late, the Children of the Tiger begin to worship Atzanteotl and Hattani Stoneclaw becomes an Immortal. 700 BC: Thanatos, Immortal of the Sphere of Entropy, helped by the Immortal Ranivorus, corrupts the pharaoh of the Nithians. The pharaoh turns the Nithian empire toward worship of Entropy. The Nithian colonists in Thothia turn away from the Entropic faith of their homeland and increasingly turn to a new form of mysticism. Mealiden is acclaimed king of Alfheim. 610 BC: Inspired by the example of Atruaghin and his people some two centuries before, the Hin revolt against the humanoids and reclaim their place as an independent state. The modern Five Shires are born. 600 BC: Three warrior-tribes from the southern continent (the Thyatians, Kerendans, and Hattians), hard-pressed by the Milenians to the south, migrate to the northern continent. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #28 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #29 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 10 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 029 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:20:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Re: Preliminary Timeline 3/5 500 BC: The Traldar are in the midst of their Dark Age. Communication between communities is infrequent. Local dialects begin to differ widely. The national epic of King Halav is the only thing which gives the people a sense of unity. Linguistic changes are already advanced enough that the people consider themselves Traladara, descendants of the Traldar, the people of King Halav. Elsewhere, the Nithian Empire, having incurred Immortal dislike, abruptly ends; the Immortals alter the climate, divert the headwaters of the River Nithia, promote social unrest, deny magical powers to their clerics, and take other actions which cause the Empire to collapse catastrophically. The Immortals use magic to ensure that almost all trace of the Empire is wiped from the face of the Known World. The colonies are systematically destroyed - except for Thothia, which has already turned away from the Entropic faith which led to the destruction of Nithia. Ancestors of modern Alasiyan peoples with draw to desert basins and establish a nomadic culture. Weak mainland human tribal cultures in the Northern Reaches are at the mercy of giantish clans. The remaining Black Moon gnolls scatter east and west. In the Ierendi islands, the Malpheggi lizard men, doomed to extinction by a parasitic plague brought by the Nithian colonists, wipe out the Nithians before dying themselves. This is part of the Immortal plan to destroy the Nithian Empire. By now, the steppes where Mealiden's elves settled have become the mighty Canolbarth forest. By now, the Thyatians, Kerendans and Hattians have conquered and assimilated the human tribes who opposed them; they are now in full control of the region which will one day be called Thyatis. 493 BC: Queen Ubdala of the Broken Lands raises Great Horde again. She recruits goblins and gnolls in the Altan Tepes, and marches north. 492 BC: At the battle of Sardal Pass, they are routed, the orcs utterly massacred. Ubdala dies. Hordes routed south and west, crowding Cruth mountains and Altan Tepes. Gnomes kicked out. 490 BC: Kobold clans are driven into the uplands of the Northern Reaches from the west. They overrun and exterminate the gnomes, and occupy their subterranean kingdoms. 452 BC: Mahmatti Running Elk becomes an Immortal after becoming one of the most powerful shamani ever to exist atop the Atruaghin Plateau. 350 BC: Mealiden abdicates the throne to follow Ilsundal's path to Immortality. Alevar of the Grunalf clan becomes king of Alfheim. 322 BC: A Schattenalfen attack annihilates the southern Azcan city of Axateotl for the seventh, and last, time. 250 BC: Mealiden becomes an Immortal of the Sphere of Energy. 200 BC: Tritons fleeing from their devilfish enemies enter the Sunlit Sea and establish the Kingdom of Undersea in the waters between the islands of Ierendi and Minrothad. 192 BC: The Alphatians, annoyed by the piratical activities of the Thyatian tribes, launch a campaign to conquer Thyatis. 190 BC: The Alphatians complete their conquest of Thyatis; Thyatis is now part of the Alphatian empire. 150 BC: The outer-world Shadow Elves contact the humanoid tribes of the Broken Lands, spreading their hatred of the above-ground elves and persuading the humanoids to attack Alfheim. 100 BC: The Milenian civilization has grown soft and decadent. It enslaves surrounding tribes and nations; most soldiers in the Milenian army are conscripts from conquered tribes. The Immortals decide to preserve the Empire in its earlier, more heroic form; they transport to the Hollow World all Milenians who adhere to the earlier Milenian goals and desires. Depriving the Milenians of their few remaining true warriors and uncorrupted government leaders sends the empire to its doom even more swiftly. In the Lost Valley of the Hutaaka, the descendants of the Traldar finally free themselves from Hutaakan rulership and begin warring on their former masters. This racial war is destined to go on for another 1,100 years. 50 BC: The decadent Milenian civilization collapses utterly under the attacks of surrounding tribes. 2 BC: Lucinius Trenzantenbium, a Thyatian-born, Alphatian-trained wizard, kills the Alphatian wizards in Thyatis and declares himself King of Thyatis; was breaks out between Thyatis and Alphatia. 0 AC: The economies of both Thyatis and Alphatia have been wrecked by the war; the two powers conduct a peace treaty in the city of Edairo, the capital of Thothia (on the Isle of Dawn). Later, in Thyatis, General Zendrolion Tatriokanitas assassinates King Lucinius and several other kings gathered there, and crowns himself Emperor of Thyatis, Ochalea and the Pearl Islands. The Thyatians celebrate for weeks. Thyatians do some trading with Minroth islanders. The Traladara begin a period of regrowth as trade is slowly established with southern peoples. Peacable demihumans (the Callarii elves and the Highforge gnomes) settle in Traladara territories; warlike demihumans (goblins, hobgoblins, orcs) do as well, in lesser numbers. Early Alasiyan agricultural settlements along coastal plain and interior desert oases. 21 AC: Ansel Darokin declares himself King of Darokin, beginning the reign of the Eastwind Kings. 87 AC: Aden I, King of Darokin, is killed by orcs, ending the Eastwind reign. 88 AC: Orcs make major gains against the leaderless Darokin humans, forcing the Elves of Alfheim to support Corwyn Attleson as a compromise choice to lead Darokin. The reign of Darokin Kings begins. 100 AC: Descendants of Makistani tribal nomads enter Ylarum from the north and settle the Ust-Urt Valley. Celedryl of the Erendyl clan is crowned king of Alfheim. 122 AC: In Darokin, Corwyn I dies after a long and successful reign. His son, Corwyn II, assumes power. 150 AC: Thyatians begin colonizing into the southeastern coastal plain and the foothills of the Altan Tepe range in Ylarum, enslaving and assimiliting, and scattering the indigenous population. 200 AC: Rockhome dwarves begin colonizing into outside lands; they are usually welcomed into human communities. 250 AC: The Alphatians begin colonizing into the northern and central coastal plain of Ylarum, enslaving and scattering the indigenous population. Some of the Ylari driven out by the Alphatian and Thyatian aggression migrate to Darokin. The Alphatians also found the colony of New Alphatia on the Isle of Dread; Alphatian magic is adapted to seafaring needs. 276 AC: Human and elf cultures in the Isles of Dread meet and establish trade. 284 AC: Minrothian and Alphatian cultures clash on Dread Island over slave trading issues; elves force the humans to make peace. 293 AC: Last of the orc tribes driven from Darokin. 300 AC: The water elf trading port of Seahome is established on Alfeisle in the Minrothad isles. 360 AC: Minroth traders carry slaves for Thyatian Empire; halfling slaves are introduced to the Isles of Dread. 390 AC: Disastrous humanoid raid on Alfheim. Some orcs captured. 395 AC: The Flaems, an offshoot of the Alphatians from the original Alphatian homeworld, settle the Glantri area where they discover the Radiance. They bring natural strains of bear and boar lycanthropy. 400 AC: Ostland raiders range south to Thyatis and north to Norwold. Mainland Northern Reaches tribes are victimized by the sea raiders and by giantish clans. The Flaems discover that other, enemy Alphatians are in possession of the mighty Alphatian empire to the east. The Traladaran village of Marilenev begins doing more trade business than fishing and begins slow, gradual growth from the increasing trade. Thyatian clerics learn the "Song of King Halav" and commit it to writing for the first time. Rogue Alphatian wizards attempting to develop a hardier, more powerful Alphatian race create fast-spreading magical strains of the curses of vampirism and lycanthropy. 401 AC: A two-month epidemic of lycanthropy in Alphatia results in thousands of werecreatures and dozens of weretypes. The newly-formed Alphatian Center for Disease Control acts quickly to limit the effects of the epidemic. 406 AC: The magical strain of lycanthropy stabilizes into seven primary weretypes - wolf, boar, tiger, bear, bat, fox, and giant hawk. 410 AC: Minroth traders unwittingly help spread the new vampirism and lycanthropy throughout the seafaring world, including the Kingdom of Undersea. 411 AC: The first wererat awakens to intelligence and the stunning revelation that he can take human form. He calls himself Mrikitat. 415 AC: Weresharks first appear in Undersea, triggering an epidemic of lycanthropy among the sea peoples. 419 AC: Normal seals carry lycanthropy to the sub-polar regions of Mystara. 443 - 445 AC: Expeditions of elves and humans attempt to purge Dread Island of all lycanthropes; human population is decimated; this time is called the Silver Purge. Similar events take place in Undersea, during the Night of the Long Knives; many weresharks flee to deeper waters. Werecreatures know this time as the Great Persecution. 445 - 450 AC: Lycanthropes fleeing from the Great Persecution establish colonies on every continent. 450 AC: Malf Quickhand leads a halfling slave revolt; newly-freed halflings take ships and migrate to the island they name Open Isle. 451 AC: Mrikitat establishes a nation of wererats in the sewers beneath the City of Thyatis. 460 AC: Wereseals join the list of persistent weretypes. 475 AC: The forest elf trading port of Verdon is founded on Alfeisle. 478 AC: Ostland is united under King Cnute the Bold. 488 AC: Hadric Corser, the Great Uniter, brings the remaining Minroth humans together; founds the city of Minrothad and lays foundation for an organized trading federation. 491 AC: Mrikitat the wererat attains Immortality in the Sphere of Time. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:22:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Re: Preliminary Timeline 4/5 500 AC: Thyatian and Alphatian colonies in Ylarum begin what will become three centuries of warfare. The Alasiyan tribes are constantly feuding. Conflict between Alphatian and Thyatian empires begins; Minroth traders maintain neutrality and dominate merchant shipping for both sides. Traders bearing vampirism and wolf, bear, and boar lycanthropy settle in Traladara's deep woods and flourish there. Big Chief Sitting Drool unites the Broken Lands. Siege of Corunglain. Orcs threaten Darokin City. Sons of Cnute colonize the mainland near Ostland. Troll and giant raids are discouraged by punitive expiditions. 501-504 AC: Darokin battles Alfheim in the Elfwar. 502 AC: Corunglain freed. Darokin Punitive Expedition massacred and devoured in Trollhattan. Scandal in Daorkin. 520 AC: The halfling trading port and capital city of Open Isle, Malfton, is established. Second Punitive Expedition from Darokin is massacred in Kol. First caravans attempt to cross Broken Lands. 522 AC: Second Diege of Corunglain. Villages torched. 523 AC: In Darokin, Corunglain falls to the orc armies of Big Chief Sitting Drool. Thousands are killed and the entire city is looted. Enslaved population taken back to Broken Lands. 525 AC: Third Punitive Expidition from Glantri and Darokin. Sitting Drool brought back in chains. 526 AC: Sitting Drool traded for slaves and gold taken from Corunglain, causing great political uproar in Darokin. Truce with Darokin and Glantri. 527 AC: Adventurers assassinate Sitting Drool. Tribes break up again. Various humanoid hordes invade Red Orcland. 550 AC: The beast man invasion of the wizard Illodius scars the magical forests of Alfheim. Alfheim Town founded in the blighted area. 560 AC: Alfheim/Darokin alliance crushes teh shadowelf invasion. 570 AC: First settlement is started on the Island of Ierendi by castoffs from the Five Shires. The island is already inhabited by small tribes of native aboriginal peoples. 571 AC: Thyatis establishes prisons on five Ierendi islands currently inhabited by shipbuilding halflings. 585 AC: Ethengar raiders oppose the Flaemish in numerous skirmishes; the Khan's horsemen are driven out. 586 AC: The Thyatians, in need of funds and resources, conquer the Ierendi islands and seize the shipbuilding facilities there. The halflings retaliate with piratical raids on Thyatian shipping. 593 AC: Ruaidhri kills the last of the werehawks. 600 AC: On Ierendi, Mad Creeg lead a rebellion among the prisoners. With native help, Mad Creeg's improvised army drives Thyatiand from the islands. The Sylvan Lands are conquered by humans led by the wizard Moorkroft; the surviving elves of the Sylvan Lands, the Feadiel clan, make the dangerous passage to Alfheim. 601 AC: Gregus Verdier, the "Second Uniter," is born on Alfeisle in Minrothad. 602 AC: Monarchy formed as Mad Creeg claims all islands, establishing the Kingdom of Ierenfi, and declares himself ruler. 614 AC: Ottar the Just defeats King Finnbogi of Ostland in the Battle of Bridenfjord, and establishes the Kingdom of Vestland. Ostland continues to raid southern mainland coasts. Vestland pursues trade with Alphatian and Thyatian colonies. 623 AC: Devil swine first appear in Alphatia. 637 AC: Black Toes assumes rulership of Ierendi upon the death of hsi father. He marries Kethy Matrongle from Glantri and assumes her surname. The Matrongle family begins long control of the island. 645 AC: Ethengar attempts a major invasion of what is now Glantri but is defeated at Skullhorn Pass. 646 AC: Gregus Verdier forges forest elves of Minrothad into unified political and economic faction. 662 AC: The Flaemish attempt to invade Ethengar, but the expeditionary force is utterly massacred in the steppes. 675 AC: King Celedryl purges shadowelf infiltrators from Alfheim, but is only partly successful. 691 AC: Gregus Verdier establishes the Council of Dread and the Minrothad Guilds. 700 AC: Warfare intensifies between Alphatian and Thyatian colonies in Ylarum. Gregus Verdier is assassinated. Doriath, a former adventurer, assumes the throne of Alfheim. The Erewan faction of Erendyl clan leaves Alfheim for Glantri. 713 AC: The Ierendi Navy destroys a Thyatian naval patrol. The Royal Navy achieves instant preeminence among the powers of the Known World. 723 AC: Santhral II dies, ending the reign of the Darokin Kings. 728 AC: The Alphatian colonies in Ylarum destroy the Thyatian colonies there; Thyatian colonists flee. The d'Ambrevilles and their vassals arrive from Old Averoigne in another dimension, establishing a French-like culture in the wooded valleys of northwestern Glantri. 730 AC: Settlers come to Glantri, including fair elves (descendants of the elves who fled the area in 1700 BC) and humans from Traladara and Thyatian colonies in Ylarum. Frictions begin between the Flaems and settlers. 748 AC: The merrow of the Sunlit Sea agree to help the Ierendi Navy in return for Ierendi agreeing to protect sacred merrow shrines from pirate plunder. 784 AC: A Thyatian settler kills a Flaemish lord; war is declared. 784 - 788 AC: The Followers of Flame (the Flaemish) war with other settlers in Glantri. With defeat come the executions of Flaemish lycanthropes who fought against the elven and Thyatian settlers. 785 AC: Battle of Braejr; the settlers are driven south of the Vesubia by the Flaemish. 786 AC: An Alphatian wizard named Halzunthram arrives in Flaemish lands and helps the humans and elves there against the Flaems. 788 AC: Once the Flaems are conquered at the Battle of Braastar, Halzunthram captures the council and declares this land to be a protectorate of Alphatia; war breaks out again. The elves become independant and the Flaemish revolt. Many Flaemish lycanthropes fight and die in the ensuing rebellion. 800 AC: Birth of Suleiman Al-Kalim, a great philosopher and warlord of the desert nomads of Ylarum. Orcwars. Desperate Broken Lands hordes ravage neighboring nations for food, treasure, or shelter. Caravans systematically plundered. Cities torched. Agitation in Darokin. Devilfish appear in the Sunlit Sea. War breaks out between them and Undersea, characterized by localized skirmishes and terrorist attacks by the devilfish. 802 AC: A gold rush in Glantri brings many Rockhome dwarves into that nation. A plague sent by the orcish Immortal Yagrai spreads into Glantri, and the Glantrians are convinced that the dwarves are responsible, resulting in a vicious war on the dwars by the people of Glantri. Lycanthropes seem peculiarly susceptible to the plague - few werecreatures survive. 814 AC: A massive Schattenalfen invasion of the Azcan empire is turned back at the Battle of Huixtla. 815 AC: The Azcan attempt to carry the war onto the Schattenalfen lands ends in ambush and disaster at the Battle of Wondyviel. 825 AC: Al-Kalim captures the village of Ylarum and establishes it as his tribal seat. 826 AC: Al-Kalim captures Cinsa-Men-Noo, Parsa, and Cresiphon, and unites the Makistani and Alasiyan tribes under the banner of the Eternal Truth. 827 AC: Campaign against Alphatian overlords in Ylarum ends with successful siege of Jaboor, removing Alphatian presence in region. 828 AC: Lord Alexander Glantri, of Thyatian descent, captures Halzunthram and confirms the land's independence from Alphatia. The population names the land Glantri in his honor. Principalities of Glantri expel all dwarves, some of whom migrate to Darokin. They depart on Minrothad ships to join the craftsmen of the Minrothad Isles; they settle on Fortress Island. 829 AC: Lord Glantri founds the Republic of Glantri and reforms the council. 830 AC: The Ylarum campaign against the Thyatian overlords ends with the successful siege of Tameronikas, driving Thyatian influence from the region. 831 AC: Founding of the Confederated Tribes of the Emirates of Ylarum. 835 AC: Suleiman Al-Kalim's pilgrimage to the Immortals. Al-Kalim begins quest on the Path of the Dynast. 841 AC: The dwarven port of Stronghold is established on Fortress Island in Minrothad. 845 AC: Construction begins on the School of Magic in Glantri. 846 AC: Orc horde from the Broken Lands loots Ardelphia, utterly destroying the city. 850 - 862 AC: The Council of Minrothad refines government structure and establishes office of ruling guild master. The first ruling guild master, Missan Meditor, is appointed. Severe laws restricting immigration are passed. 855 AC: Suleiman Al-Kalim composes the Nahmeh, an important work of Ylari religious thought. 858 AC: Nobility is reserved for wizards only in Glantri. Council members gain the hereditary title of Prince. Establishment of the Eternal University and Council of Preceptors in Ylarum. 859 AC: Illegal Glantrian nobles are expelled and the wizards crush a minor rebellion. 860 AC: Suleiman Al-Kalim retires from public life. 875 AC: Construction is completed on the School of Magic. 880 AC: Fire Island is declared off limits to all shipping. The Minrothad thieves' guild secretly establishes Cove Haven as a pirate base on this island. 890 AC: Ruling Minrothad guild master Kitrina Meditor passes Isolation Act prohibiting immigration and most visitors to Minrothad. 896 AC: Chateau d'Ambreville disappears from New Averoigne in Glantri without a trace, taking the d'Ambrevilles with it. 898 AC: New immigration wave to Glantri. The population mixes freely, and frictions decrease. 900 AC: Marilenev is a flourishing trade village of 500. The Empire of Thyatis moves on Marilenev, conquers it, and claims all of the Traladara region as a Thyatian protectorate. Marilenev is renamed "Specularum." Many refugees from Traladara flee to Darokin. The Thyatians also conquer several areas of the Isle of Dawn, and build and settle the city of Oceansend in Norwold. North Isle is annexed by Minrothad. The refuge colony of Gapton is established there. Suleiman Al-Kalim falsely spreads reports of his death to conceal his disappearance as he continues his quest for Immortality. 920 AC: The war between the Kingdom of Undersea and the devilfish ends indecisively. Economic agreement signed between Glantri and Darokin, allowing free passage for all merchant caravans. Business is booming in Glantri City. 927 AC: The Great Merger. Darokin's largest and richest merchant families agree on a central government for the entire country. Charles Mauntea picked to lead Darokin, beginning the reign of the Merchant Kings. 932 AC: Lydia Mauntea takes over rulership of Darokin after the death of her husband, Charles. She assumes the title "Chancellor". 934 AC: Chancellor Mauntea calls the Second Great Merchants' Council in Darokin. Many of the reforms started in 927 are finalized, including the election of a new president upon the death of the current leader by a standing Council of 15 major merchants. 940 AC: All Minrothad trading vessels are now captained by merchant-princes and carry marines. A boatload of refugees from the Stonecarver culture, driven ashore by a titanic hurricane onto Azcan lands, found the town of Colima. 942 AC: The Azcans defeat the Schattenalfen at the Battle of Ploiec, and are consequently able to maintain the Tepetitlan gold mines. 948 AC: Stefan Karameikos III born. 949 AC: Birth of Moctitlapac, the current Tlatoani (Emperor) of the Azcan Empire. Vardon Kalimi named Chancellor of Darokin after the death of Lydia Mauntea. 950 AC: Minrothad signs neutrality pacts with most mainland countries. The Nordhartar Defense League is formed at the Council of Soderfjord, creating the Soderfjord Jarldoms. Treaties with Vestland and Ylarum aid Soderfjord in securing Overland Trade Route through Castellan and challenge Ostland to desist coastal raiding. Ostland in turn allies with Thyatian Empire. 959 AC: Alphatia begins another direct war upon Thyatis. 960 AC: The Alphatian assault forces reach Thyatis City and kill the Thyatian emperor, but are repelled by a counterattack led by Thincol the Brave, a famous gladiator. 963 AC: The Azcans discover the Stonecarvers at Colima, and send a small troop to wipe them out. The Colimans prevail, however, and maintain their way of life. 965 AC: Kitrina Meditor, ruling guildmaster of Minrothad, is assassinated. The council of guild Leaders acts as regent until Oran Meditor comes of age. 970 AC: Duke Stefan Karameikos III trades his ancestral lands (the Duchy of Machetos) to Emperor Thincol for independent rulership of Traladara, which is renamed the Grand Duchy of Karameikos. Duke Stefan sails to and takes possession of his duchy, then begins parcelling out land and titles to his Thyatian followers. He begins building roads across the Duchy and a strong military to protect it. 971 AC: Corwyn Hoff named Chancellor of Darokin after the resignation of Kalimi. 972 AC: Moctitlapac is installed as tlatoani - Emperor of the Azcans. 975 AC: Rypien Hallonica names Chancellor of Darokin after the death of Hoff. King Thar unites Broken Lands, threatening Darokin commerce. Enforces Tharian Code of Conduct. The Legion is created. Thyatis frowns at the military threat. 979 AC: The d'Ambrevilles and their estate return to New Averoigne. Chateau d'Ambreville is destroyed, and the House of Sylaire erected in its place. Sire Malachie du Marais and Dame Genevieve de Sephora enter Glantri from Old Averoigne. An epidemic of wolf lycanthropy begins. Duke Stefan Karameikos marries Lady Olivia Prothemian. Devilfish resume their attacks on the Kingdom of Undersea. 980 AC: Lycanthropes are again discovered in Minrothad and in Undersea; fear spreads that more may have escaped the Silver Purge (443-445 AC). Devil swine and wererats seem particularly numerous. Weresharks reappear in Undersea. Lady Adriana Karameikos born. 982 AC: Sire Malachie du Marais wins control of the Barony of Morlay deep within the Valley of Wolves, in Glantri. Lord Justin Karameikos born. 985 AC: Founding of the Canine Protection Society in Glantri. 986 AC: Lord Valen Karameikos born. 988 AC: After Hallonica's death, the Merchant's Council names Corwyn Mauntea, great-grandson of Charles and Lydia, president of Darokin. 989 AC: Oran Meditor takes office as ruling guildmaster of Minrothad, instituting reforms. 991 AC: Oran Meditor rescinds the Isolation Act and opens Minrothad to outside contact. 995 AC: First assassination attempt on Oran Meditor. Clan Kasan is behind the attempt and is removed from control of the water elf guild. Clan Elsan is promoted to replace Clan Kasan. 998 AC: Second assassination attempt on Oran Meditor. The assassin is believed to be a hired wizard from Glantri. Undead are reported in the waters to the south. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:22:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Re: Preliminary Timeline 5/5 1000 AC: Minrothad celebrates 150 years of nationhood. Oran Meditor makes public appearances to stop rumors of his continued ill health. In Glantri, the Brotherhood of Free Wolves is pressing hard for their own Principality under the leadership of Sire Malachie du Marais, Baron of Morlay. Werecreatures in the southern waters of Undersea grow in numbers and strength. Vestland is a modern nation and a strong, independant trading partner with the nations of Mystara. Ostland is a powerful, independant ally of Thyatis, aggressive and belligerent, barbaric in culture and religious practices. Soderfjord is a weak alliance of feuding minor jarls, victimized by giantish clans and Ostland pirates. Ylarum is under governance of sultans from Preceptors faction of Al-Kalim's descendants. Its culture and economy flourishes. Shark-kin take up arms against the land dwellers; devilfish increase their attacks on Undersea; the numbers of undead and werecreatures in the southern waters grows at an alarming rate. Everast XV is on the throne of Rockhome. 1001 AC: Political lobbyists introduce a bill allowing the practice of clerical magic in Glantri under very strict conditions. Clerics must obtain a letter of sanction from the ruler of the dominion they wish to practice clerical magic, and the ruler has free rein over the terms of the sanction - fees imposed, types of magic allowed (healing only, etc.), expiration of the letter, and so forth. Clerics are still forbidden to preach their beliefs, regardless of any letters of sanction, and only Parliament of the Council of Princes may grant a letter of sanction to clerics operating within the free territories of Glantri. The Council of Princes is evenly split over the matter, and the measure goes to the House of Lords at Parliament. Sire Malachie du Marais votes against it, but the measure passes. The White Wolf prepares for an infestation of lycanthropy-fighting clerics. 1002 AC: Sire Malachie learns of an enormous silver deposit in the bedrock beneath le Chateau de Malinbois. This is a serious obstacle to his plans to control Malinbois. 1003 AC: The Council of Princes approves and Act of Enfiefment in the economically depressed area of Bramyra, ending years of chaotic contests for control of the area. 1004 AC: Thyatis city suffers an enormous riot by the poorer citizens, who have seen a steady decline in the quality and quantity of free bread passed out by the officials. This has little effect on anyone not in - or under - Thyatis city. The wererats of Thyatis participate in the riot, as they depend on the free bread almost as much as Thyatis' poor do. Relations between Glantri and the Empire of Alphatia become strained, as the Alphatian Council of Wizards accuses the Glantrian Great School of Magic of harboring followers of the Entropic Immortals and using forbidden, evil magics. Spies and counter-spies make matters worse. Prince Etienne d'Ambreville is swept up in the politics and espionage between the two magocracies. A gold strike in les Montagnes Noires leads to a rapid influx of population with the Valley of Wolves in Glantri. Sire Malachie must contend with the fact that the majority of the newcomers are unwanted - they put a great strain on the taxed natural resources of the valley, strip the mountains of precious minerals Sire Malachie hoped to control for himself, and clash with the resident populations (both werewolves and non-lycanthropes). The Council of Princes approves an Act of Enfiefment in the area of Fort Sablestone. Sire Malachie attempts to capitalize on the Council of Prince's current willingness to create new Principalities. The White Wolf is also amused at this - if the Council grants an Act of Enfiefment in the Valley of Wolves, it will become the thirteenth Principality. 1005 AC: Empress Eriadna of Alphatia issues a proclamation of war against Glantri. In return, Glantri, backed by the Empire of Thyatis and the Heldann Freeholds, declares war on Alphatia. Alphatian wizards travel secretly to Glantri, and set loose hordes of monsters - many from other planes. Meanwhile, the Master of the war and invades Darokin from the west. A substantial number of weretypes live secretly in Darokin - merchants and adventurers who contracted lycanthropy while abroad. The Council of Princes in Glantri approves an Act of Enfiefment for la Vallee des Loups in Favor of Sire Malachie du Marais. 1006 AC: The forces of Karameikos - including some werecreatures, although they try to keep that secret - march to the defense of the city of Darokin. A devastating meteor sent by the Master of Desert Nomads impacts on the Darokin/Glantri border, destroys a mountain range, and raises an impenetrable cloud above the two nations. Crops fail, causing famine and economic collapse. The dwarves of Rockhome, dismayed at the events of the surface world, retreat into their subterranean communities. 1007 AC: King Thar of the Broken Lands leads his humanoid hordes in raids on southern Glantri, finally besieging Glantri City itself. Shadow Elves invade Alfheim, transmuting the forest and forcing the Alfheim elves to flee. Plague erupts in the Heldann Freeholds. 1008 AC: Plague spreads throughout the north, reaching Glantri through Ethengar. With little clerical magic to combat it, Glantri's population is devastated. Lycanthropes seem just as susceptible as normal folk, and the Valley of Wolves loses many werewolves. 1009 AC: Thyatis, hard-pressed by the Alphatian military juggernaut, sues Empress Eriadna for peace. A storm of tremendous force deluges the Alphatian city of Sundsvall with rain, hail, and lightning - and drains the world of magic. For an entire week, no magic works, either on Mystara or in the Hollow World. Lycanthropes can no longer transform and are stuck in whatever form they were in when the storm struck. When magic returns, so does lycanthropy and its effects. The storm and its after-effects were caused by an Immortal artifact, the Nucleus of the Spheres, the source of the radiance, a magical power unique to Glantri. The Thousand Wizards of Alphatia teleport to the skies over Glantri City and begin a magical bombardment. The Nucleus of the Spheres is destroyed and Glantri is devastated. Immediately afterward, earthquakes rock Alphatia, and the continent sinks deep beneath the sea. 1010 AC: The nations of the Known World begin the long, difficult process of rebuilding. In Glantri, the Principality of Fenswick is enfeoffed. 1011 AC: New Kolland becomes the first humanoid principality in Glantri. 1012 AC: Specularum, Karameikos is renamed to Mirros. Subtle events mold a darker, more sinister Glantri. 1020 AC: Joint Darokinian and Thyatian operations to protect their interests. All-out war pits humans vs. orcs. 1050 AC: Ylarum falls under the rule of Kin faction sultans. Its sulture and economy flourishes, but its values decline, and there is a resurgence of traditional tribal enmities. 1150 AC: The deaths of High King Maramet of Vestland and his sole heir throw the nation into a political turmoil. The Sorona, the enchanted crown of Vestland, is sought by various factions hoping to claim the throne. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 19:53:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects > > GAZ10: The Orcs of Thar: Kobolds, Goblins, Orcs, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, > > Gnolls, Ogres, Trolls. (Plus rules for any other humanoid species.) > What kind of rules? If they are this tall, then this or what? Note that this is for OD&D, and taken near-verbatim from GAZ10. Set Racial Ability Modifiers as you will, from -4 to +3. Ditto with Racial AC, the smaller the humanoid, the lower (eg. Kobold=7, Ogre or Troll=9, most others=8) Most monsters use eight-sided Hit Dice. Some, like kobolds, have 1/2 HD, or d8-1, or d8+1. These HD modifiers should be accumulated each time the character gains a new HD (ie, 2d8-2, 3d8-3, etc) up to +/-4. In the case of multiple-HD monsters, HD modifiers are accumulated every two HD for 2 HD monsters, every three HD for 3 HD monsters, and so on. As a rule of thumb, a 1 HD Normal Monster, like an orc, needs 1,000 XP to reach 1st level. This is called the Base XP. Experience Points then double for each subsequent level up until 9th level, or up to 300,000 XP increments maximum. At that time, XP needed for the following levels stop increasing. The XP needed to real all subsequent levels should remain equal to 200 times the creature's XP needed to reach 1st level, or 300,000 XP, whichever occurs first. If the creature has a +/- adjustment to its HD, simple add or subtract 20% to its Base XP (ie, HD 1-1 = 800 XP, 1+1 = 1,200 XP). The level advancement for multi-HD creatures is a bit different. Here, the primary concern is to make sure the total XP needed to acquire extra HD is the same for all creatures. For example, both the bugbear and the ogre have to accumulate 2,400 XP to get their 3rd HD. This causes tougher creatures to start with negative XP. The actual XP progression is otherwise basically the same as for single HD or HD1+1 monsters. (Note that in some of the Creature Crucibles, they muffed the XP tables, so that it takes more XP to get from level -3 to -2 than for -2 to -1! I always fix the tables in my own books.) If a creature has special abilities (it's HD are marked with an asterick, ie, HD 6+3* for trolls), do not forget to penalize its level advancement requirements. The suggested penalty is 1,000 XP or more, per special ability, to be added to the Base XP. > > Hollow World: Warrior Elves, Beastmen, Brute-Men, Hutaakans, Krugel Orcs, > > Kubitts, Malpheggi Lizard Men. > Warrior Elves are really a class more than a race. True enough.. as are Dwarf-clerics, Hin Masters, Elf Treekeepers, and a couple others. :) (Let's see.. Foresters, humans trained as elves, and Rakes, swashbuckling thieves minus pickpocketing.. anybody remember what else there was?) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #29 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #30 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 10 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 030 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:40:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Mystara Product List 1/5 Note: I don't remember where I got this, but you might want to see if Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) has a WWW page.. Note2: There should be a 6th part, the recent 2nd. ed. AD&D boxes, but I have neither found it or bothered to write it yet. Volunteers...? :) ======================== Section 2: New D&D Rules ======================== New D&D Core Material - --------------------- Dungeons & Dragons Game D&D Rules Cyclopedia Wrath of the Immortals Boxed Set Champions of Mystara The Classic Dungeons & Dragons Game New D&D Accessories - ------------------- Character and Monster Assortment Pack AC1010: Poor Wizard's Almanac (for the year 1010 AC) AC1011: Poor Wizard's Almanac II (for the year 1011 AC) DDREF1: Character Record Sheets DMR1: DM Screen DMR2: Creature Catalog Oooo--------------------------------------------------------oooO ===================== Detailed Descriptions ===================== Dungeons & Dragons Game TSR No.: 1070 Status: Available Price: $20.00 D&D Rules Cyclopedia TSR No.: 1071 Status: Available Compiled by: Aaron Allston Year: 1991 Price: $24.95 Summary: This book replaces sets 1 through 4 (Basic through Master). Most of the rules, monsters, and treasures found within the boxed sets made it into this hardbound volume. Also included is an appendix giving an overview of Mystara (The Known World) and the Hollow World. Additional appendices include optional character classes (Gnome, demi-humans, and Mystic to 36th level), as well as an appendix on D&D to AD&D conversions. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) Wrath of the Immortals Boxed Set TSR No.: 1082 Status: Just out of print Author: Aaron Allston Year: 1992 Price: $20.00 What you get: Two [??? page] books and two fold-out maps. Summary: The first book replaces the Immortal Rules (1986), updating the way Immortals are treated in the D&D game (their powers, hierarchy, interaction with mortals, etc.) and includes a section of Artifacts, as well as some new monsters. The second booklet, The "Immortal's Fury", is a campaign saga which redefines the World of Mystara over the years AC1004 to AC 1009. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) Champions of Mystara TSR No.: 1094 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Author: Ann Dupis Year: 1993 Price: $20.00 What you get: Four maps, eight cardstock plates and three booklets [??? pages] Summary: Two maps are of select aread of Mystara and two are of the Princess Ark. The eight cardstock plates have various skyships detailed on them. The "Heroes of the Princess Ark" book summarizes the Dragon Magazine serial, "Voyage of the Princess Ark", and gives information about the skyship, its crew, and campaigns based on it. The Designer's Manual details information on Skyship Design, world creation, and the like. The Explorer's Manual details the area west of Daroking in a gazetteer style format. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) The Classic Dungeons & Dragons Game TSR No.: 1106 Status: Available Setting: D&D, Mystara Year: 1994 Price: $20.00 Character and Monster Assortment Pack TSR No.: 9363 Status: Just out of print Year: 1992 Price: $8.95 Overview of the Poor Wizard's Almanacs: Each one of these covers one year in the world of Mystara. They contain an overview of the world, summarizing some descriptions of the planet itself, as well as a general overview of most kingdoms, countries, and territories discussed in other products. This overview gives notes on the size, population, currency, language, etc. of the region, as well as a brief description of the lands and some historical notes. In addition to these sections, there are sections detailing military forces, NPCs, and a day-by-day account of political, social and natural events occuring in Mystara (including the Hollow World) for the year of the Almanac. Each Almanac also contains a fold-out map of some part of Mystara. AC1010: Poor Wizard's Almanac (for the year 1010 AC) TSR No.: 9372 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Author: Aaron Allston Year: 1992 Price: $9.95 What you get: Summary: This is the first of the Almanac series, and covers events immediatley following the "Wrath of the Immortals" storyline. The map included shows the remains of the Alphatian Empire, following the "Wrath" adventure. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) AC1011: Poor Wizard's Almanac II (for the year 1011 AC) TSR No.: 9441 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Author: Ann Dupis Year: 1993 Price: $9.95 Summary: This is the second Almanac in the series. It covers the year AC 1011 on the Thyatian calendar, and includes several new sections. Among these are sections on taxation, horoscopes, festivals, and a list of the prominent dead. The map included shows the Sea of Dread Region, including the Serpent Penninsula. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) DDREF1: Character Record Sheets TSR No.: 9308 Status: Available Setting: Characters: Authors: Year: Price: $8.95 What you get: Summary: New spells: New magical items: New creatures: Notes: Contributed by: DMR1: DM Screen TSR No.: 9437 Status: Available Setting: Characters: Author: Teuwynn Woodruff Year: 1993 Price: $8.95 What you get: Summary: This is a screen for use with the D&D Rules Cyclopedia which includes charts and table useful to the DM. Also included is an adventure which brings characters from Thunder Rift (the setting designed for use with the newer D&D Game box (black, levels 1-5)) into the world of Mystara (specifically the Grand Duchy of Karameikos). Basically, it is a module which allows players and DMs to make the transition from the black box to the Rules Cyclopedia. New spells: New magical items: New creatures: Notes: Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) DMR2: Creature Catalog TSR No.: 9438 Status: Available Setting: Characters: Revised by: John Nephew Year: 1993 Price: $15.00 What you get: Summary: This product lists, alphabetically, more than 150 monsters for the D&D game. It replaces the earlier version of the Creature Catalog (AC9), and includes most of the monsters found in D&D modules, as well as some new ones. Included is a section on modifying monster encounters, as well as wilderness encounter tables and a complete D&D game master monster index, listing where each monster may be found. New spells: New magical items: New creatures: Notes: This is meant to replace AC9: Creature Catalog Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:41:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Mystara Product List 3/5 ========================== Section 3: D&D Accessories ========================== AC Series - --------- AC1: Shady Dragon Inn AC2: Combat Shield and Mini-Adventure AC3: Dragon Tiles: The Kidnapping of Princess Arelina AC4: Book of Marvelous Magic AC5: PC Character Sheets AC6: Master PC Character Sheets AC7: Master Player Screen AC8: Dragon Tiles: Revenge of Rusak (Labelled AC3) AC9: Creature Catalogue AC10: Bestiary of Dragons and Giants AC11: The Book of Wonderous Inventions Gazetteers - ---------- GAZ1: The Grand Duchy of Karameikos GAZ2: The Emirates of Ylaruam GAZ3: The Principalities of Glantri GAZ4: The Kingdom of Ierendi GAZ5: The Elves of Alfheim GAZ6: The Dwarves of Rockhome GAZ7: The Northern Reaches GAZ8: The Five Shires GAZ9: The Minrothad Guilds GAZ10: The Orcs of Thar GAZ11: Republic of Darokin GAZ12: Golden Khan of Ethengar GAZ13: Shadow Elves GAZ14: Atruaghin Clans Player Crucibles - ---------------- PC1: Tall Tales of the Wee Folk PC2: Top Ballista PC3: The Sea People PC4: Night Howlers Maps - ---- TM1: The Western Countries TM2: The Eastern Countries Novels - ------ Penhaligon Trilogy 1: The Tainted Sword Penhaligon Trilogy 2: The Dragon's Tomb Penhaligon Trilogy 3: The Fall of Magic Dragonlord of Mystara Dragonking of Mystara Dark Knight of Karameikos Dragon Quest - ------------ Dragon Quest Game Oooo--------------------------------------------------------oooO ===================== Detailed Descriptions ===================== AC1: Shady Dragon Inn TSR No.: 9100 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Author: Carl Smith Year: 1983 Summary: This accessory is much like the old "Rogues Gallery". It lists, in separate sections, NPCs of each of the major character classes. It also has a special section with stats for the characters featured in Module XL1 (Strongheart and the other characters that appear in the animated Marvel Productions TV show and that are portrayed as the rulers of the Kingdom of Ierendi in Module X10). The final section includes ready-to-use NPC parties consisting of the NPCs in the earlier sections of the booklet. Each character has about a paragraph of background but this can easily be used as a starting point and built upon. Contributed by: Jim Sahlas (u9320158@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca) AC2: Combat Shield and Mini-Adventure TSR No.: 9099 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Author: David Cook Year: 1984 Summary: This includes a DM's screen and a mini-adventure "Treasure of the Hideous One" for character levels 4-7. The screen has all the necessary charts from the later Basic and Expert rules (the versions with the Larry Elmore covers) for the DM to use during play. The adventure is well-written and takes place in the D&D known world. Contributed by: Jim Sahlas (u9320158@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca) AC3: Dragon Tiles: The Kidnapping of Princess Arelina TSR No.: 9121 Status: Out of print Authors: Garry Spiegle Year: 1983 Summary: The "Dragon Tiles" consist of 51 3D figures (characters, creatures, wall, doors, etc.) and 2 heavy cardboard sheets of 84 2-sided "feature" tiles. There is also a DM mapping grid and the adventure. This is a product for people just learning to play the game. Contributed by: Jim Sahlas (u9320158@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca) AC4: Book of Marvelous Magic TSR No.: 9116 Status: Out of print Authors: Frank Metzner Year: 1985 Summary: This book contains all of the miscellaneous magic items from the Basic, Expert and Companion sets, plus 500 new items. Notes: This product is labelled as being useful for both D&D and AD&D. Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) AC5: PC Character Sheets TSR No.: 9037 Status: Out of print AC6: Master PC Character Sheets TSR No.: ?9037 Status: Out of print AC7: Master Player Screen TSR No.: 9156 Status: Out of print Author: Bruce Nesmith Year: 1985 Summary: Included is a screen for characters which shows level advancement, ability progressions, and the like. Also included is a Master level adventure entitled "The Spindle of Heaven" which allows characters to possibly discover some knowledge about immortality. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) AC8: Dragon Tiles: Revenge of Rusak (Labelled AC3) TSR No.: 9145 Status: Out of print Author: David "Zeb" Cook Year: 1985 Summary: Similar to the real AC3, this accessory consists of 3D figures, but with a wilderness theme rather than a dungeon-exploring theme as in the previous product. The sheets of 2-sided tiles feature trails, streams, creatures, etc., as well as a wilderness mapping grid. The adventure is for expert level players. Notes: This was mislabelled as AC3. Contributed by: Jim Sahlas (u9320158@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca) AC9: Creature Catalogue TSR No.: 9173 Status: Out of print Compiled by: Graeme Morris et. al. Year: 1986 Price: $12.00 Summary: This accessory describes monsters which appeared in previous D&D modules, as well as a few new ones. The monsters are listed according to type: Animals, Conjurations, Humaniods, Lowlife, Monsters and Undead. There are also indexes by habitat, type and alphabetical. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) AC10: Bestiary of Dragons and Giants TSR No.: 9211 Status: Out of print Author: Deborah Christian Year: 1987 Summary: This accessory is comprised of a booklet containing 14 small adventures featuring dragons and giants (7 adventures for each) ranging from Basic to Master level play. All of the adventures are playable in one session. In addition, each adventure showcases a particular aspect of either dragon- or giantkind (which are not detailed in the D&D rulebook monster descriptions). Also included is a size comparison grid (on the inside cover) which depicts a normal human alongside all of the varieties of dragons and giants. As well, there is a cut and paste sliding reference card to help the DM come up with appropriate spells for dragons of all types within seconds. Contributed by: Jim Sahlas (u9320158@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca) AC11: The Book of Wonderous Inventions TSR No.: 9220 Status: Just out of print Compiled by: Bruce Heard Year: 1987 Price: $8.95 Summary: A variety of oddball inventions are described for several game worlds. Included are a few pages in the back which contains additional information on "Creating Spells and Magic Items". Notes: The product labels itself as being for D&D and AD&D. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) Overview of the Gazetteers of Mystara: Each of these products includes information on the history, politics, geography, flora and fauna, and society of the region it covers. Also included are adventure notes, some NPCs, rules for creating characters from the area, as well as some notes detailing what others know and/or think of the area. Included with each is a large fold-out map showing the region in an 8 mile/hex format. Also on these maps are city layouts and the like, as space permits. The following descriptions highlight things unique to each particular gazette. GAZ1: The Grand Duchy of Karameikos TSR No.: 9193 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Price: $10.00 GAZ2: The Emirates of Ylaruam TSR No.: 9194 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Year: $7.95 GAZ3: The Principalities of Glantri TSR No.: 9208 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Author: Bruce Heard Year: 1987 Price: $8.95 Summary: Seven secret crafts (for wizards) are described, and the power of the Radiance is introduced. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) GAZ4: The Kingdom of Ierendi TSR No.: 9215 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Author: Anne Gray McCready Year: 1987 Price: $7.95 Summary: Included here are some naval encounters, and information on the navies of the known world. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) GAZ5: The Elves of Alfheim TSR No.: 9223 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Author: Steve Perrin Year: 1988 Price: $8.95 Summary: Elves are allowed to continue beyond the 10th level of magical ability if they remain in Alfheim, but they forsake the combat abilities they would normally gain (as these are learned from living with humans). Several new spells for use by elves are included. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) GAZ6: The Dwarves of Rockhome TSR No.: 9227 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Author: Aaron Allston Year: 1988 Price: $8.95 Summary: The class of Dwarven Cleric is introduced. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) GAZ7: The Northern Reaches TSR No.: 9230 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Author: Ken Rolston Year: 1988 Price: $8.95 Summary: This product describes the three viking style territories: Kingdom of Ostland, Kingdom of Vestland, and the Soderfjord Jarldoms. Included is a small rune-magic system, and some 3D cutouts for building a viking village. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) GAZ8: The Five Shires TSR No.: 9232 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Author: Ed Greenwood Year: 1988 Price: $8.95 Summary: Halflings (Hin) are able to advance beyond the level limitations if they enter the new class of "Master" (a halfling druid, in many respects). Some new spells included. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) GAZ9: The Minrothad Guilds TSR No.: 9236 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Authors: Deborah Christian & Kim Eastland Year: 1988 Summary: Information on overseas trade in the Known World is given, including a chart which details what is bought and sold at many major port cities. It is possible to become a "Merchant Prince" (sea-going merchants with their own brand of spells, which are described herein). Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) GAZ10: The Orcs of Thar TSR No.: 9241 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Author: Bruce Heard Year: 1988 Price: $9.95 Summary: Rules for playing humanoid characters are given as well as rules for piecemeal armour, including a discussion of the quality of armour and weapons for use with humanoid characters. Also included is the Orc-Wars board game which appeared previously in Dragon Magazine. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) GAZ11: Republic of Darokin TSR No.: 9250 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Author: Scott Haring Year: 1989 Price: $9.95 Summary: Overland trade routes are detailed, as well as the ability to become a "Merchant" (complete with spells useful to Merchants). Also included are several cut-outs which form a 3D merchant caravan. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) GAZ12: Golden Khan of Ethengar TSR No.: 9246 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Author: Jim Bambra Year: 1989 Price: $9.95 Summary: It is now possible for characters which live in Ethengar to become "Shamans", a new character class, complete with its own list of spells and spellcasting ability. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) GAZ13: Shadow Elves TSR No.: 9287 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Authors: Carl Sargent & Gary Thomas Year: 1990 Price: $9.95 Summary: A magical spell casting system which relies on the power of the Radiance is given, as are some new spells for use with Shadow Elf characters. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) GAZ14: Atruaghin Clans TSR No.: 9306 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D, Mystara Price: $10.95 Overview of the Player Crucibles: Each of these supplements gives rules for generating characters which are from non-standard races. These rules are largely derived from GAZ10: Orcs of Thar, where they were first developed. Also included is a discussion of the habitat in which these creatures live. All but the first Crucible include a fold-out map. PC1: Tall Tales of the Wee Folk TSR No.: 9254 Status: Out of print Author: John Nephew Year: 1989 Price: $9.95 Summary: Included are rules for generating Brownies, Centaurs, Dryads, Fauns, Hsiao, Leprechauns, Pixies, Pookas, Sidhes, Sprites, Treants, Wood Imps, and Woodrakes. The Dreamland is described to some extent. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) PC2: Top Ballista TSR No.: 9255 Status: Just out of print Authors: Carl Sargent Year: 1989 Price: $9.95 Summary: Included are rules for generating Faenare, Gnomes, Gremlins, Harpies, Nagpas, Pegataurs, Sphinxes, and Tabi. The flying city of Serraine is described in some detail (the full colour map included depicts this city). Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) PC3: The Sea People TSR No.: 9277 Status: Just out of print Author: Jim Bambra Year: 1990 Price: $9.95 Summary: Included are rules for Aquatic Elves, Knas, Koprus, Merrows, Nixies, Sea Giants, Shark-Kin, and Tritons. The fold-out map shows the underwater terrain of the seas surrounding Ierendi and Minrothad. This area is also described within the text. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) PC4: Night Howlers TSR No.: 9368 Status: Just out of print Authors: Ann Dupuis Year: 1992 Price: $10.95 Summary: Included are rules for lycanthropes (Bats, Bears, Boars, Foxes, Rats, Seals, Sharks, Tigers, Wolves, and the Devil Swine), as well as some guidelines for creating other types. Characters stricken with lycanthropy have two classes (their original class and that of the were-type corresponding to them). With experience, they can learn to control their changes, etc. Also inlcuded is a campaign section detailing the creation of a werewolf principality in Glantri called Morlay-Malinbois. A map of this area (at 1 mile/hex) is included. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) Overview of the Trail Maps: These are large 36"x 57" maps showing the Known World in the 8 mile/hex stule of the various Gazetteers. TM1: The Western Countries Status: Out of print Year: 1989 Summary: Included around the edges of the map are charts detailing weather generation, trail conditions, some astrology tidbits, as well as other tables. The map extends from Glantri and Darokin in the West to Rockhome in the East, and from Ethengar in the North to Ierendi and Minrothad in the South. Note that the Atruaghin Clans are not depicted (since that Gazetteer had not yet been published). Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) TM2: The Eastern Countries Status: Out of print Year: 1989 Summary: Included around the edges of the map are notes on travelling costs, exchange rates, universities, and some geopolitical information (from a Thyatian viewpoint). This map lies directly beside its predecessor and extends onto parts of the Isle of Dawn in the east. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) Penhaligon Trilogy 1: The Tainted Sword TSR No.: 8035 Status: Available Year: 1992 Price: $4.95 Penhaligon Trilogy 2: The Dragon's Tomb TSR No.: 8036 Status: Available Year: 1993 Price: $4.95 Penhaligon Trilogy 3: The Fall of Magic TSR No.: 8037 Status: Available Year: 1993 Price: $4.95 Dragonlord of Mystara Status: Available Setting: Glantri, circa 500 AC Author: Thorarinn Gunnarsson Year: 1995 Dragonking of Mystara TSR No.: 2514 Status: Available Setting: Glantri, circa 500 AC Author: Thorarinn Gunnarsson Year: 1995 Price: $5.99 Dark Knight of Karameikos TSR No.: 2518 Status: Available Setting: Karameikos, Author: Timothy Brown Year: 1995 Price: $5.99 Dragon Quest Game TSR No.: 1100 Status: Available Price: $22.95 - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:48:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Mystara Product List 2/5 ============================= Section 1: Original D&D Rules ============================= Original D&D Core Material - -------------------------- Original D&D Three Volume Boxed Set D&D Supplement I: Greyhawk D&D Supplement II: Blackmoor D&D Supplement III: Eldritch Wizardry D&D Supplement IV: Gods, Demigods, Heroes D&D Basic Rules Boxed Set (1978 Version) D&D Basic Rules Boxed Set (1983 Version, 4th Edition) D&D Expert Rules Boxed Set (1980 Version) D&D Expert Rules Boxed Set (1983 Version) D&D Companion Rules Boxed Set D&D Master Rules Boxed Set D&D Immortal Rules Boxed Set Original D&D Accessories - ------------------------ Monster and Treasure Assortment, Set One (Levels One to Three) Monster and Treasure Assortment, Set Two (Levels Four to Six) Monster and Treasure Assortment, Set Three (Levels Seven to Nine) Dungeon Geomorphs, Set One (Basic Dungeon) Dungeon Geomorphs, Set Two (Caves & Caverns) Dungeon Geomorphs, Set Three (Lower Dungeon) Outdoor Geomorphs, Set One (Walled City) Oooo--------------------------------------------------------oooO ===================== Detailed Descriptions ===================== [Editor's Note: I'd love some more information on the different editions of the Basic and Expert sets. If anyone has any information that might be helpful, please contact me.] Original D&D Three Volume Boxed Set TSR No.: 2002 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Authors: Gygax & Arneson Year: 1974 Price: $10.00 What you get: Three books: "Men and Magic", "Monsters and Treasures" and "The Underworld and Wilderness". Notes: ?Possibly more than one printing. ?Was released three times in the original white box and twice in "collector's edition" versions, which were brown. [I'm not sure if these later versions are the "Basic Sets" listed below. If anybody knows more about early D&D products than I do (not difficult) please help me out. - Ed.] D&D Supplement I: Greyhawk TSR No.: 2003 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D, Greyhawk (!) D&D Supplement II: Blackmoor TSR No.: 2004 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D, Blackmoor D&D Supplement III: Eldritch Wizardry TSR No.: 2005 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D D&D Supplement IV: Gods, Demigods, Heroes TSR No.: 2006 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D D&D Basic Rules Boxed Set (1978 Version) TSR No.: 1001 Status: Out of print Editor: Tom Moldvay Year: 1978 Summary: This is one of the earliest incarnations of the game. It has a section on PC classes, followed by 1st and 2nd level magic-user spells and 1st level cleric spells. Also included are sections regarding the adventure, the encounter, a monster list, a treasure list, information for the DM, and a small section called "inspirational game material", where TSR formally acknowledge all of the source material they never mentioned again. Contributed by: Jim Sahlas (u9320158@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca) D&D Basic Rules Boxed Set (1983 Version, 4th Edition) TSR No.: 1001 Status: Out of print Design: Frank Metzner Year: 1983 Summary: The contents of this boxed set include a Player's Book, a DM's Book, and a set of dice. The Player's Book includes beginning information on all character classes for levels 1-3, and includes a solo adventure which helps in learning some of the game mechanics. The DM's Book contains information for a DM on how to run an adventure (and gives a small adventure to begin with), as well as monster and treasure lists. There is also a section on designing your own adventure. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) D&D Expert Rules Boxed Set (1980 Version) TSR No.: 1012 Status: Out of print Design: Dave Cook with Steven Marsh Year: 1980 What you get: 64 page book [And? What else? - Ed.] Summary: The rule book in this box details character advancement from level 4 to 14 for all classes (note that dwarves, elves and halflings are limited to levels 12, 10, and 8 respectively). Magical spells for clerics are presented up through 5th level, and for magic-users and elves through 6th level (reversible spells are now possible). The rule book gives information on wilderness adventuring, waterborne adventuring, and aerial combat, as well as adding several pieces of new equipment, many more monsters and larger magical item tables (with item descriptions). By the time characters are at 14th level, they have excellent abilities (thieving and clerical). Also included is the module "X1: Isle of Dread", and a set of polyhedron "Dragon" dice. Notes: This version of the D&D rules is incompatible (as regards some thief abilities, spell advancement, and saving throws) with the Companion and Master sets which were produced for the next edition. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) D&D Expert Rules Boxed Set (1983 Version) TSR No.: 1012 Status: Out of print Design: Frank Metzner Year: 1983 What you get: A [??? page] rule book, module X1 and a set of dice. Summary: This boxed set contains a single rule book which presents information similar to the previous Expert Sets, but with a few modifications which make it compatible with the Companion and Master sets which follow. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) D&D Companion Rules Boxed Set TSR No.: 1013 Status: Out of print Design: Frank Metzner Year: 1984 What you get: A [??? page] Player's Companion book and a [??? page] DM's Companion book. Summary: The Player's Companion book includes rules for advancing characters from 15th to 25th level of play. Also included are rules for wrestling, unarmed combat and several new types of weapons and armor. The ability to become a Knight, Paladin or Avenger (if a Fighter), or a Druid (if a Neutral Cleric), are included. Also discussed is the choice of land-owner versus wanderer for each class. The idea of Attack Ranks for demi-humans (which improves combat abilities for them) is introduced. The DM's Companion book includes information on Dominions, mass combat (the War Machine) and some planar information, as well as new monsters and treasure. A large scale map of the continent of Brun is drawn on the inside of one of the covers. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) D&D Master Rules Boxed Set TSR No.: 1021 Status: Out of print Design: Frank Metzner Year: 1985 What you get: A [??? page] Master Player's book and a [??? page] Master DM's book. Summary: The Player's book gives information for charcter advancement through 36th level. In addition, weapon masteries, some weapon descriptions and the mechanics of sieges are described. The DM's book includes procedures for powerful "Touch Dispels", introduces an optional character class -- the Mystic, discusses the various paths to immortality, adds additional monsters to the game. It also includes a large section on Artifacts and Artifact creation. A large scale world map showing various large empires, kingdoms, and the like is included. (Much of this is misinformation, as it is later redefined with the Gazetteer series.) Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) D&D Immortal Rules Boxed Set TSR No.: 1017 Status: Just out of print Design: Frank Metzner Year: 1986 Price: $15.00 What you get: A [??? page] Immortal Player's Guide and a [??? page] Immortal DM's Guide. Summary: The Player's Guide gives information on rules and advancement for immortal level characters, as well as information on detailing a "Home Plane", and the creation of physical bodies. The DM's Guide gives various information pertaining to planes (sizes, dimensions, etc.) as well as new monsters and game procedures for the various types of campaigns possible (i.e. Immortal only, Immortal-Mortal, etc.). Most known spells and spell effects are given power ratings and home spheres (Matter, Energy, Time, Thought, Entropy), which is required for Immortal level magic. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) Monster and Treasure Assortment, Set One (Levels One to Three) Status: Out of print Monster and Treasure Assortment, Set Two (Levels Four to Six) Status: Out of print Monster and Treasure Assortment, Set Three (Levels Seven to Nine) Status: Out of print Dungeon Geomorphs, Set One (Basic Dungeon) Status: Out of print Dungeon Geomorphs, Set Two (Caves & Caverns) Status: Out of print Dungeon Geomorphs, Set Three (Lower Dungeon) Status: Out of print Outdoor Geomorphs, Set One (Walled City) Status: Out of print - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:50:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Mystara Product List 5/5 ======================= Section 5: D&D Settings ======================= Blackmoor Modules - ----------------- DA1: Adventures in Blackmoor DA2: Temple of the Frog DA3: City of the Gods DA4: Duchy of Ten Thyatian Empire Core - -------------------- Dawn of the Emperors Thyatian Empire Modules - ----------------------- DDA1: Arena of Thyatis DDA2: Legions of Thyatis DDA3: Eye of Traldar DDA4: Dymrak Dead Hollow World Core - ----------------- Hollow World Campaign Hollow World Reference - ---------------------- HWR1: Sons of Azca HWR2: Kingdom of Nithia HWR3: The Milenian Empire Hollow World Modules - -------------------- HWA1: Nightwail HWA2: Nightrage HWA3: Nightstorm HWQ1: Milenian Sceptre Thunder Rift Adventure Packs - ---------------------------- Goblin's Lair Dragon's Den Haunted Tower Thunder Rift Accessories - ------------------------ Thunder Rift Thunder Rift Modules - -------------------- Quest for the Silver Sword Assault on Raven's Ruin Sword and Shield The Knight of Newts The Rage of the Rakasta In the Phantom's Wake Oooo--------------------------------------------------------oooO ===================== Detailed Descriptions ===================== Overview of the Blackmoor series of modules: Blackmoor was a civilization that existed several thousand years before the Known World. After a spaceship crashed near the Kingdom of Blackmoor, adventurers were sent to defeat this mysterious evil (DA2 and DA3). Subsequently, large amounts of high technology fell into the hands of a magic-rich, feudal society. Magic and technology was merged, more and more destructive devices were invented, and eventually the whole realm went up in a big nuclear (?) explosion. All that remained was the fusion engines that once powered the spaceship. Now located in a cavern far below Glantri City, this device has become an artifact (due to, in part, Immortal tampering) and sends out a radiation that is the source of magic on Mystara. Dave Arneson, co-creator of the D&D game was co-author of these modules. The Blackmoor setting was *the* original D&D campaign world, and the stuff presented by TSR is a reworking of that stuff. Several of the NPCs in the modules were at once time player characters. It's also interesting to note that Blackmoor appears on the world map in the original Greyhawk Boxed Set. Blackmoor was part of Greyhawk for 3 or 4 years before it became part of the Known World. There are also several continuity flaws between the DA modules and claims made in the GAZ series. Explanation: Steve Miller (smiller@media.utah.edu) DA1: Adventures in Blackmoor TSR No.: 9172 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D, Blackmoor Characters: 5-8 of levels 10-14 Authors: Dave L. Arneson and David J. Ritchie Year: 1986 What you get: 64 page booklet, 16" x 22" map and cover with fold-out picture Summary: The PCs are introduced to Blackmoor and the Empire of Thonia by means of time travel and one stable location -- the Comeback Inn. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: None Contributed by: Thom Denholm (thomd@atm.com) DA2: Temple of the Frog TSR No.: 9175 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D, Blackmoor Characters: 5-8 of levels 10-14 Authors: Dave L. Arneson and David J. Ritchie Year: 1986 What you get: 48 page booklet and cover with fold-out map Summary: Baroness of the Lakes is kidnapped by frog folk, and the PCs need to invade the Temple of the Frog to get her back. Unfortunately, the froggies have been getting some technological help... New spells: None New magical items: Battle Armor (Godsuit), Hand Blaster (Wand of Sunflame), Heavy Blaster (Staff of Sunflame), Translator Badge (Medallion of Speaking) New creatures: Killer Frogs, Frog Folk Contributed by: Thom Denholm (thomd@atm.com) DA3: City of the Gods TSR No.: 9191 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D, Blackmoor Characters: 5-8 of levels 10-14 Authors: Dave L. Arneson and David J. Ritchie Year: 1987 What you get: 48 page booklet and cover with fold-out map Summary: New magic has arrived, brought to Blackmoor in a magic egg by a magician who died before he could utter a single word. However, recovery must be swift since the order of the Frog is interested in this new magic, too. New spells: None New magical items: Battle Armor (Godsuit), Communicator (Talk Box), Glow Wand (Magic Torch), Grenade (Death Egg), Grenade Launcher (Wand of Death Eggs), Hand Blaster (Wand of Sunflame), Heavy Blaster (Staff of Sunflame), Implant (Talk Spell), Light Sabre (Sword of Light), Medkit (Cube of Healing), Needler (Wand of Poisoned Dreams), Pressure Suit (Suit of Lights), Riot Stick (Wand of Pain), Snoopers (Far Seers), Translator Badge (Medallion of Speaking) New creatures: Camarilla, Cyborg, Gakarak, Garl, Geonid, Grazer, Herex, Hide Hunter (Human), Hook Beasts (Hook Horror and Hulker), Robots (Defense Robot, Security Robot, Ecology Robot, Utility Robot). Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) DA4: Duchy of Ten TSR No.: 9205 Status: Outt of print Setting: D&D, Blackmoor Characters: 5-8 of levels 10-14 Author: David J. Ritchie Year: 1987 Price: $8.00 What you get: 48 page booklet and cover with fold-out map, full color map Summary: The Well of Souls, an artifact that the Afridhi made at the request of Zogzu the One, is sought after by those in Blackmoor to try and unmake what they had made. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Brother of the Greenwood (human), Dolphin, Dragon Turtle, Gakarak, Gatorman, Handmaidens of Death (human), Hide Hunter (human), Lava Lizard, Roper, Sister of Fire (human), Sicauda Harian Raider (human), Soiluk (Sun Brother), Soul Eater Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) Dawn of the Emperors TSR No.: 1037 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D, Thyatian Empire Author: Aaron Allston Year: 1989 What you get: This boxed set includes three booklets and two full colour fold-out maps. Summary: There are two players books (one for the Empire of Thyatis, and one for the Empire of Alphatia) which describe history, politics, society, etc. of the empires and their colonies. Several new spells, as well as information on making "Really Big Magical Items" are included. The Rake (non-thieving thief) and the Forester (humans following Elf class progression) are introduced. The third (and largest) book details information for the DM including the true history of both empires, prominent NPCs, descriptions of several locations, a section on DMing treachery in Thyatis, a handful of new monsters, and some adventure ideas. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) Overview of the DDA series of modules: The DDA series was formed to further explore the Thyatian Empire in Mystara. The first two modules take place within the City of Thyatis itself, and the next two are adventures in the Grand Duchy of Karameikos (a former Thyatian territory). DDA1: Arena of Thyatis TSR No.: 9274 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D Thyatian Empire, Mystara Characters: [???] of levels 2-3 Price: $5.95 DDA2: Legions of Thyatis TSR No.: 9296 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Thyatian Empire, Mystara Characters: [???] of levels [???] Price: $5.95 DDA3: Eye of Traldar TSR No.: 9271 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Thyatian Empire, Mystara Characters: [???] of levels 2-3 Year: 1991 Price: $6.95 DDA4: Dymrak Dead TSR No.: 9272 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Thyatian Empire, Mystara Characters: [???] of levels 1-3 Year: 1991 Price: $6.95 Hollow World Campaign TSR No.: 1054 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D Hollow World, Mystara Author: Aaron Allston Year: 1990 Price: $18.00 What you get: Three books (DM Book, Adventure Book, and Player Book), as well as four fold-out maps detailing the Hollow World. Summary: The DM book gives an overview of the Hollow World (never-ending sunlight, the way magic works, etc.) and gives brief information on the history, cultures, and noteable locations found within the Hollow World. The Player Book describes the cultural biases (magically enforced by Immortals) which each culture is required to obey, and discusses potential character classes from each society. The Adventure Book discusses several adventure ideas for use in the Hollow World. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) Overview of the Hollow World references: These reference supplements are very similar to the Gazetteer series for the outer world. Each takes a region found in the Hollow World and describes its culture, politics, geography, history, and society. Cultural biases (important for hollow world characters) are also discussed. Each of these contains a large fold-out map of the region (or part of it). HWR1: Sons of Azca TSR No.: 9332 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D Hollow World, Mystara Author: John Nephew Year: 1991 Price: $10.95 Summary: This reference covers the Azcan Empire (a society similar to the Aztecs anmd Mayans of South America). Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) HWR2: Kingdom of Nithia TSR No.: 9339 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D, Hollow World (Mystara) Author: Blake Mobley with Newton Ewell Year: 1991 Price: $10.95 Summary: This reference covers the Kingdom of Nithia (an Egyptian style setting). Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) HWR3: The Milenian Empire TSR No.: 9384 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D, Hollow World (Mystara) Author: Anthony Herring Year: 1992 Price: $10.95 Summary: This reference covers the Milenian Empire (a society based on Bronze Age Greece). Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) Overview of the Hollow World Modules: The three HWA modules together form one long interconnected adventure for the Hollow World of Mystara. HWQ1 is a stand alone module which ties the Hollow World setting to the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set. HWA1: Nightwail TSR No.: 9378 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D Hollow World, Mystara Characters: [???] of levels 6-8 HWA2: Nightrage TSR No.: 9310 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D Known World, Mystara Characters: [???] of levels 7-9 Price: $8.95 HWA3: Nightstorm TSR No.: 9311 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D Hollow World, Mystara Characters: [???] of levels 8-10 Price: $9.95 HWQ1: Milenian Sceptre TSR No.: 9378 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D Hollow World, Mystara Characters: [???] of levels 6-8 Year: 1992 Price: 9378 What you get: 64 page booklet, map Overview of the Thunder Rift product series: These products, including the three huge boxed adventure packs (Goblin's Lair, Dragon's Den, and Haunted Tower) are placed in a setting TSR created for the New Dungeons & Dragon Game boxed set, which was released in 1991. The setting is called Thunder Rift and a 32 page accessory (called Thunder Rift) was produced describing this isolated valley. A mini-adventure which allowed characters to travel from it into the world of Mystara was included with the D&D DM Screen. Each of the modules is a mere 16 pages, and includes information in a "if the characters do this..." type of format in order to accomodate first time DMs and players without a DM. They also have a full colour mapsheet (scaled for use with figures) and 16 or 20 die-cut figures. Goblin's Lair TSR No.: 1076 Status: Just out of print Setting: New D&D, Thunder Rift Author: Graeme Davis Year: 1992 Price: $16.95 Dragon's Den TSR No.: 1073 Status: Just out of print Setting: New D&D, Thunder Rift Author: Ken Rolston Year: 1992 Price: $16.95 Haunted Tower TSR No.: 1081 Status: Just out of print Setting: New D&D, Thunder Rift Author: William Connors Year: 1992 Price: $16.95 Thunder Rift TSR No.: 9357 Status: Just out of print Setting: New D&D, Thunder Rift Author: Colin McComb Year: 1992 Price: $6.95 Quest for the Silver Sword TSR No.: 9342 Status: Just out of print Setting: New D&D, Thunder Rift Characters: [???] of levels 1-2 Author: William Connors Year: 1992 Price: $6.95 What you get: 16 page booklet and cover, full-colour map and pop-out figures Summary: The people of Turynn have had to abandon their homes, perhaps due to some evil curse in Barkyn's keep. What is causing the days of summer to be filled with snow? New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Spitting Beetle, Armor Golem, Ice Golem, Ratling, White Widow Spider Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) Assault on Raven's Ruin TSR No.: 9350 Status: Just out of print Setting: New D&D, Thunder Rift Characters: 4-6 of levels 2-3 Author: Tim Beach Year: 1992 Price: $6.95 What you get: 16 page booklet, full colour map sheet, 16 die-cut figures Summary: The Sceptre of Truth has been stolen, and a call has gone out for a few brave heroes to bring it back from the goblins at Raven's Ruin. New spells: None New magical items: Sceptre of Truth, Carving of Restful Sleep New creatures: Galumph, Large Raven Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) Sword and Shield TSR No.: 9387 Status: Just out of print Setting: New D&D, Thunder Rift Characters: 1 level 1 fighter Year: 1992 Price: $6.95 What you get: 16 page booklet, 16 die-cut figures, map sheet The Knight of Newts TSR No.: 9434 Status: Just out of print Setting: New D&D, Thunder Rift Characters: [???] of levels 1-3 Author: Dale Henson Year: 1993 Price: $6.95 What you get: 16 page booklet, 20 die-cut figures, mapsheet Notes: This module can be played with or without a DM. [Go figure - Ed.] The Rage of the Rakasta TSR No.: 9435 Status: Just out of print Setting: New D&D, Thunder Rift Characters: [???] of levels 2-4 Author: William Connors Year: 1993 Price: $6.95 What you get: 16 page booklet, 20 die-cut figures, mapsheet Notes: This module can be played with or without a DM. In the Phantom's Wake TSR No.: 9436 Status: Just out of print Setting: New D&D, Thunder Rift Characters: [???] of levels 4-5 Author: Dale Henson Year: 1993 Price: $6.95 What you get: 16 page booklet, 20 die-cut figures, mapsheet Notes: This module can be played with or without a DM. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #30 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #31 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, 11 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 031 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:53:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Mystara Product List 4a/5 ====================== Section 4: D&D Modules ====================== Basic D&D Modules - ----------------- B1: In Search of the Unknown B2: Keep on the Borderlands B3: Palace of the Silver Princess B4: Lost City B5: Horror on the Hill B6: Veiled Society B7: Rahasia B8: Journey to the Rock B9: Castle Caldwell & Beyond B10: Night's Dark Terror B11: King's Festival B12: Queen's Harvest B1-9: In Search of Adventure Expert D&D Modules - ------------------ X1: Isle of Dread X2: Castle Amber (Chateau d'Amberville) X3: Curse of Xanathon X4: Master of the Desert Nomads X5: Temple of Death X6: Quagmire! X7: War Rafts of Kron X8: Drums on Fire Mountain X9: Savage Coast X10: Red Arrow, Black Shield X11: Saga of the Shadow Lord X12: Skarda's Mirror X13: Crown of Ancient Glory Companion D&D Modules - --------------------- CM1: Test of the Warlords CM2: Death's Ride CM3: Sabre River CM4: Earthshaker CM5: Mystery of the Snow Pearls CM6: Where Chaos Reigns CM7: Tree of Life CM8: Endless Stair CM9: Legacy of Blood Master D&D Modules - ------------------ M1: Into the Maelstrom M2: Vengeance of Alphaks M3: Twilight Calling M4: Five Coins for a Kingdom M5: Talons of Night Immortal D&D Modules - -------------------- IM1: Immortal Storm IM2: Wrath of Olympus IM3: Best of Intentions Solo Modules - ------------ BSOLO: Ghost of Lion Castle M1 (aka MSOLO1): Blizzard Pass M2 (aka MSOLO2): Maze of the Riddling Minotaur XS1 (aka XSOLO): Lathan's Gold XS2: Thunderdelve Mountain Miscellaneous Modules - --------------------- O1: Gem and the Staff O2: Blade of Vengeance XL1: Quest for the Heartstone Oooo--------------------------------------------------------oooO ===================== Detailed Descriptions ===================== Overview of the B series modules: All of the Basic D&D modules are set in the D&D Known World of Mystara. Most of them are set specifically in the Grand Duchy of Karameikos on Mystara. B1: In Search of the Unknown TSR No.: 90233 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara Characters: 3-6 of levels 1-3 Author: Mike Carr Year: 1979 What you get: 32 page booklet Summary: Rogahn the fearless and Zelligar the Unknown, noted personalities, built a stronghold years ago, but now they are gone. Who will dare to explore their hideaway? New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: None Notes: This module is incomplete in that the DM must stock the dungeon with monsters and treasures. Tables are provided for this. Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) B2: Keep on the Borderlands TSR No.: 9034 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara Characters: 6-9 of levels 1-3 Author: Gary Gygax Year: 1981 What you get: A 28 page module which includes information on the keep and its inhabitants, the surrounding area, and the Caves of Chaos. Summary: This adventure takes place in north-western Karameikos. The party is based at a keep, and is free to explore the surrounding countryside. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: None Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) B3: Palace of the Silver Princess TSR No.: 9044 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara Characters: 4-6 of levels 1-3 Authors: Tom Moldvay and Jean Wells Year: 1981 What you get: 32 page booklet and cover Summary: The protectors, a magical race from the land of Faerie, summon the PCs to save the palace of Princess Argenta in the land of Haven, for it has fallen under a spell. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Archer Bush, Decampus, Vampire Roses Notes: According to the book "Heroic Worlds", this module originally contained some art of questionable taste, such as a picture of a princess tied up with her own hair. TSR immediately recalled it, and reissued it with new artwork. There are a few copies of the "original" B3 floating around, and they are worth quite a bit of money. Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) and Joseph Goodman (jgoodma1@cc.swarthmore.edu) B4: Lost City TSR No.: 9049 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara Characters: 6-10 of levels 1-3 Author: Tom Moldvay Year: 1982 What you get: 28 page booklet and cover with map fold-out. Summary: The PCs, being lost in the desert, know that their only hope of survival lies in a ruined city rising out of the sands in the distance. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Banshee, Cynidiceans, Werefox Lycanthrope, Polymar Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) B5: Horror on the Hill TSR No.: 9078 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara Characters: 5-10 of levels 1-3 Authors: Douglas Niles Year: 1983 Summary: The PCs band together to explore a Hill which contains a ghoulish graveyard, an old monastery, and the hobgoblin king himself. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Piranha Bird, Steam Weevil, Lava Lizard Contributed by: Thom Denholm (thomd@atm.com) B6: Veiled Society TSR No.: 9086 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara Characters: for levels 1-3 Author: David Cook Year: 1984 What you get: 16 page booklet and a fold-out cover, 8 pages of building cut-outs. Summary: The PCs become involved in the power struggles of the city of Specularum, where there are many factions -- the Torenescu, Rade, Vorloi, and the *shudder* Veiled Society... New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Sirenflower Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) B7: Rahasia TSR No.: 9115 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara Characters: [???] of levels 1-3 B8: Journey to the Rock TSR No.: 9106 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara Characters: 6-8 of levels 1-3 Author: Michael Malone Year: 1984 What you get: A 32 page module with cover which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: A wizard hires the party to investigate the Rock, a desolate monolith, for him and to bring back the secrets it contains. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Chameleon Man, Winged Warrior, Rock Man, Sand Spider, Water Weird, Ghostly Horde, Crone of Chaos Notes: For the most part, this is a wilderness adventure. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) B9: Castle Caldwell & Beyond TSR No.: 9143 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara Characters: [???] of levels 1-3 B10: Night's Dark Terror TSR No.: 9149 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Basic/Expert, Mystara Characters: for levels 2-4 Authors: Jim Bambra, Graeme Morris and Phil Gallagher Year: 1986 What you get: 96 page booklet and cover with fold-out map, 1 full color map (maps on both sides) and 8 player's pull-out sheets. Summary: The PCs journey across the Grand Duchy of Karameikos in a desparate race against time and the forces of evil in a part-dungeon and part-wilderness adventure. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Chevall, Ice Wolf, Kartoeba, Living Statues, Rock Rattler, Giant Foot-Pad Lizard, Piranha, Shroud Spider, Wyrd Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) B11: King's Festival TSR No.: 9260 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara Characters: [???] of levels 1-3 B12: Queen's Harvest TSR No.: 9261 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara B1-9: In Search of Adventure TSR No.: 9190 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara Characters: [???] of levels 1-3 Notes: This module is a collection of modules B1 to B9. Overview of the X series modules: All of the Expert D&D modules are set in the D&D Known World of Mystara. X4 and X5, along with X10, form the Desert Nomads series. X1: Isle of Dread TSR No.: 9043 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Expert, Mystara Characters: 6-10 of levels 3-7 Authors: David Cook and Tom Moldvay Year: 1981, 1983 What you get: A 32 page module which describes the Isle of Dread in detail. Also included is the first descriptions of what the various countries in the Known World are like. Summary: The party discovers an old adventurers journal which mentions a great inland city on the Isle of Dread which is filled with untold splendors. They plan the long voyage across the aptly named Sea of Dread, arrive at the island and explore it. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Allosaurus, Ankylosaurus, Aranea, Brontosaurus, Dimetrodon, Giant Elk, Grangeri, Kopru, Megatherium, Native, Giant Oyster, Phanaton, Phororhacos ("Sword Beak"), Plesiosaurus, Rakasta, Trachodon Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) X2: Castle Amber (Chateau d'Amberville) TSR No.: 9051 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Expert, Mystara Characters: for levels 3-6 Author: Tom Moldvay Year: 1981 What you get: 28 page booklet with cover Summary: The PCs are cut off from their own world as the mists descend and they find themselves trapped at the castle. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Amber Lotus Flower, Giant Amoeba, Aranea, Brain Collector, Death Demon, Mud Golem, Grab Grass, Gremlin, Killer Trees, Lupin, Magen, Pagan, Phantoms, Rakasta, Slime Worm, Sun Brother, Vampire Roses Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) X3: Curse of Xanathon TSR No.: 9056 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Expert, Mystara Characters: 5-8 of levels 5-7 Author: Douglas Niles Year: 1982 What you get: A 32 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: The town of Rhoona is plagued by various problems which the party must investigate. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Hypnosnake Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) X4: Master of the Desert Nomads TSR No.: 9068 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Expert, Mystara Characters: 6-8 of levels 6-9 Author: David Cook Year: 1983 What you get: A 32 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: Desert men and inhuman tribes have invaded the Sind, and a call to arms has been issued. The party has been sent on a journey into the wastes of the Sind to locate the Great Pass, and the Master of the Desert Nomads beyond it. New creatures: Bhut, Juggernaut, Nagpa, Soul Eater, Tabi Notes: This module expands the Known World westward into the Sind Desert. It is the first part of the three part Desert Nomad series, along with X5 and X10. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) X5: Temple of Death TSR No.: 9069 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Expert, Mystara Characters: 6-8 of levels 6-10 Author: David Cook Year: 1983 What you get: A 32 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: Having located the Great Pass, the party must navigate its myriad passages and find the one known only as the Master in the land of Hule. New creatures: Dusanu, Geonid, Malfera, Mujina, Spectral Hound Notes: This module expands the Known World westward beyond the Black Mountains into Hule. It is the second of three modules in the Desert Nomad Series, along with X4 and X10. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) X6: Quagmire! TSR No.: 9081 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Expert, Mystara Characters: 2-8 of levels 4-10 Author: Merle M. Rasmussen Year: 1984 What you get: A 32 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: A message in a bottle carries a plea for help from the city of Quagmire. Without aid soon, the city will surrender to the fury of the seas. The party strikes out to investigate the Serpent Penninsula and save the doomed city (if they are not too late already). New spells: None New magical items: Potion of Swimming, Potion of Waterbreathing, Ring of Water Adaption, Returning Spear New creatures: Giant Fish (Giant Pirhana and Giant Catfish), Grab Grass, Killer Trees, Pirhana Bird, Pocket Dragon, Giant Hunting Spider Notes: This module expands the Known World, describing the Serpent Penninsula which lies to the south of the Sind. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) X7: War Rafts of Kron TSR No.: 9079 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Expert, Mystara Characters: 4-6 of levels 9-12 Author: Bruce Nesmith Year: 1984 What you get: A 32 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: The Minrothad Guilds are offering small fortunes to attract adventurers of great ability for a special quest. After having been tested to prove their worth, the party embarks on a mission to discover the causes of disrupted shipping and to rescue a visiting princess who was recently kidnapped. New spells: None New magical items: Potion of Swimming, Potion of Water Breathing, Ring of Water Adaption, Undersea Boat, Returning Spear New creatures: Dolphin, Dragon Turtle, Eel (Electric and Giant), Gargantua, Sea Horse, Giant Jellyfish (Marauder and Man-O-War), Manta Ray, Giant Octopus, Sea Serpent (lesser and greater), Shark (Bull, Mako, and Great White), Giant Squid, Triton, Velya, Whales (Killer, Narwhal and Sperm) Notes: This is an ocean and undersea adventure. Some rules are included for underwater activity and spellcasting. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) X8: Drums on Fire Mountain TSR No.: 9127 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Expert, Mystara Characters: 5-8 of levels 5-8 Authors: Graeme Morris and Tom Kirby Year: 1984 What you get: A 32 page module Summary: An evil has cast its shadow across the eastern reaches of the Sea of Dread which has disrupted shipping. Attacks of the green-skinned "Orcs of the Sea" and the mysterious "Ship-Bane" now go unchecked. The party is asked to infiltrate a small island off of the coast of Thyatis and discover its connection with the menaces occuring at sea. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Agarat, Fundamental (air, earth, fire, water), Kal-Muru (Ship-bane), Kari-Kari, Topi Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) X9: Savage Coast TSR No.: 9129 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Expert, Mystara Characters: 2-8 of levels 4-10 Authors: Merle and Jackie Rasmussen and Anne C. Gray Year: 1985 What you get: A 32 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: Lured by tales of lost cities, gold and treasure the party heads west into the wilderness. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Amber Lotus Flower, Giant Amoeba, Cay-men, Marine Decapus, Normal Dog, Dragonne Monster, Giant River Serpentweed, Lupin, Pagan, Sacrol, Tortle, Snapper, Strangle Vine Notes: The coastline of the Known World expands further west detailing Orcs Head Penninsula, the Western Sea and the Savage Gulf. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) X10: Red Arrow, Black Shield TSR No.: 9160 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Expert/Companion, Mystara Characters: 4-8 of levels 10-14 Author: Michael S. Dobson Year: 1985 What you get: A 48 page module which contains information on the countries and armies of the Known World. In addition, there are 200 counters (representing the armies of the world) and a full-colour map of the Known World (from the Expert Set) for use with the counters. Summary: Having gained in strength since the previous modules, the Master launches a full scale war into the Republic of Darokin. The party must wander the Known World in search of allies to help stave off the invasion. The end result is Mystara's first world war. New spells: Several spells from the Companion Rules are described. New magical items: Crystal Dagger of Cymorrak; items from the Companion Rules are described as well. New creatures: Juggernaut, Tabi (both from X4) Notes: This is the third of three modules in the Desert Nomad series, finishing off the trilogy which began with X4 and X5. It is designed for use with either Battlesystem of War Machine. In all of the Gazetteer accessories, this war is placed at 1200 AC (two hundred years into the future). With the events detailed in the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set, it is suggested therein that this module be used with some modifications, thus placing it between 1004 AC and 1009 AC. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) X11: Saga of the Shadow Lord TSR No.: 9165 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Expert, Mystara Characters: [???] of levels 5-9 Author: Stephen Bourne Notes: This module details regions directly north of what is typically included in the Known World (Wendar, Denagoth, Heldann Freeholds). It features the Blackstick, a fairly powerful artifact that is almost out of charges. X12: Skarda's Mirror TSR No.: 9188 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Expert, Mystara Characters: for levels 5-8 Author: Aaron Allston Year: 1987 What you get: A 48 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: The party is approached by the relatives of one of those who have fallen victim to Skarda. Should they decide to help, they must then enter Skarda's mystical mirror, rescue the victims and escape. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: None Notes: This module takes place in the Grand Duchy of Karameikos. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) X13: Crown of Ancient Glory TSR No.: 9218 Status: Just out of print Setting: D&D Expert/Companion, Mystara Characters: for levels 7-10 Author: Stephen Bourne Year: 1987 Price: $7.95 What you get: A 64 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: It is up to the party to recover the lost Sorona Crown, find the long-lost heir to the throne of Vestland, and avoid treacherous traitors and spies, all in the hopes that their efforts will be in time to fend off an impending invasion. New spells: None New magical items: Harp of Spirit Restoration, Sorona Crown, Throne of Transformation New creatures: Lochnar, Maramet the Undead King, Giant Crab, Giant Squid, Sperm Whale Notes: Set in Vestland, this modules is a sequel of sorts to X11. It features the same pre-generated characters and makes a couple of references to X11. It introduces an artifact-like crown, the full powers of which are only accessible to a character belonging to the Vestland royal liniage. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:55:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Mystara Product List 4b/5 Overview of the C series modules: All of the Companion D&D modules are set on Mystara. CM1-4 and CM6 take place in Norwold, a largely unsettled and unexplored northern wilderness which lies north of what is commonly referred to as the Known World. CM1 gives much of the background information, and provides a backdrop for events occurring over a two year period. CM7 is an adventure for elves of Level 8+, and CM8 and CM9 take place within the Known World area. CM5 is a Companion Level solo module, wherein the player plays an elf (level 10, attack rank I) included with the module. CM1: Test of the Warlords TSR No.: 9117 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Companion, Mystara Characters: 2-10 of levels 15+ Author: Douglas Nile Year: 1984 What you get: 32 page booklet and cover with fold-out of figures Summary: The PCs are requested by the King in the Kingdom of Norworld to journey there. If they are found worthy, they may be appointed lord of a domain. However, they will have to lend their forces in a war or two, and face other challenges first. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: None Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) CM2: Death's Ride TSR No.: 9118 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Companion, Mystara Characters: 6 of levels 15-20 Author: Garry Spiegle Year: 1984 What you get: 32 page booklet and cover with a fold-out map Summary: The PCs have been commissioned to lead a delegation to investigate the Barony of TwoLakes Vale, from which all communication has ceased. New spells: None New magical items: Hammer of Life, Mirror of Life Saving, Potion of Superhealing New creatures: Death Leech Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) CM3: Sabre River TSR No.: 9119 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Companion, Mystara Characters: 4-6 of levels 15-22 Authors: Douglas Niles and Bruce Nesmith Year: 1984 What you get: 32 page booklet (with 8 pull-out pre-rolled characters) and a cover. Summary: The village of Sabre River is threatened by famine and monsters, and needs the help of valiant heroes. The introduction says: "The river and the land around it are cursed, and a young boy seems to be the only one unaffected. Those who try to lift the curse must first reach the Seer on his mysterious island and then brave the Tower of Terror and the adventures at the river's heart." The module is designed for use with PCs who may or may not have settled down and formed domains. It is set in the lands of Norwold (See CM1: Test of the Warlords). It also involves some dungeoneering work. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Sabreclaw Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) and Are Thunes Samsonsen (s148@brems.ii.uib.no) CM4: Earthshaker TSR No.: 9128 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Companion, Mystara Characters: 4-6 of levels 18-20 Author: David "Zeb" Cook Year: 1985 What you get: 24 page booklet and cover with fold-out map Summary: As the PCs happily manage their domains, Earthshaker, a marvel of the world, appears. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: None Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) CM5: Mystery of the Snow Pearls TSR No.: 9154 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Companion, Mystara Characters: 1 solo elf of level 10 (included in the module) Author: Anne Gray McCready Year: 1985 What you get: A 32 page module, foldout map, and Magic Viewer. Summary: One of four magical, snow white pearls has been stolen, and its up to the elven character to solve the mystery surrounding its theft, and return it. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Ash Crawler, Gyerian Notes: This module is designed for use by a player without a DM. Everything is masked in a red haze pattern, and the magic viewer must be used to read the text. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) CM6: Where Chaos Reigns TSR No.: 9158 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Companion, Mystara Characters: 6-10 of levels 17-19 Author: Graeme Morris Year: 1985 Price: $6.00 What you get: 24 page booklet with cover and 8 pull-out sheets Summary: The PCs have been chosen by the immortals, for the parallel world of Aelos is threatened by the Gards. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Garl, Hephaeston, Oaro Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) CM7: Tree of Life TSR No.: 9166 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Companion, Mystara Characters: up to 10 elves of levels 8+ Author: Bruce A. Heard Year: 1986 What you get: A 40 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: The magical relic of the Feadiel clan -- the Tree of Life -- is dying. Following a great council of all Alfheim clans, it is decided that the bravest and most powerful elves must quest to find the source of the accursed disease which is killing the Tree. New spells: Wish (later included in the Master Rules) New magical items: None New creatures: None Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) CM8: Endless Stair TSR No.: 9192 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Companion, Mystara Characters: 4-6 of levels 15-20 Author: Ed Greenwood Year: 1987 What you get: A 32 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: A wizard was found dead near the site where his former master (a great mage) is said to be buried. Caught in the middle of things, the party can investigate the mystery of the dead wizard, and perhaps, discover what is hidden in the great mage's tomb. New spells: Stone Bolt (W3), Control Bats (W4), Warning Trumpet (W4), Control Gargoyle (W5), Symbol (Spell Loss, Entrap) (W8) New magical items: Crystal of Death Scrying, Dart of Death, Gem of Magic Missile Protection, Diadem of Disenchantment New creatures: Prying Eyes, Guardian Hand, Skull Wraith, Eater-of-Magic Notes: This module takes place in the Principalities of Glantri. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) CM9: Legacy of Blood TSR No.: 9210 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Companion, Mystara Characters: [???] of levels 15-19 Authors: Steve Perrin and Katherine Kerr Year: 1987 What you get: 32 page booklet and cover with fold-out map. Summary: As heir to the dominion of Fenhold, the threat of the Deep Swamp is yours to overcome. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Giant Swamp Eel, Giant Freshwater Slug, Swamp Velya, Swamp Snapping Turlte, Neicrozon Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) Overview of the M series modules: Several of the Master Level adventures are based on the Alphatia-Thyatis conflict in Mystara. The levels are high, and it is expected that PCs be concerned with grandiose noble purposes, having left much of the need to rule and acquire wealth behind. The quest for immortality is hanging on the horizon. M1: Into the Maelstrom TSR No.: 9159 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Master, Mystara Characters: 4-8 of levels 25-30 Authors: Bruce and Beatrice Heard Year: 1985 What you get: A 32 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: A deadly fog envelops the lands of Norwold and it is up to a band of brave adventurers to discover its origins, eliminate it and prevent it from spreading south into the Known World. New spells: None New magical items: Phaseships ("Skysharks") New creatures: Roaring Demon (later appears in the Immortal Rules) Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) M2: Vengeance of Alphaks TSR No.: 9148 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Master, Mystara Characters: 4-8 of levels 28-32 Author: Skip Williams Year: 1986 What you get: A 32 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: The immortal Alphaks, using mortal pawns, is attempting to bring war to Norwold once again. His plans to ignite current frictions into a full-scale war include meddling in politics and diplomacy, as well as treachery and treason. New spells: None New magical items: Girdle of De'Rah (artifact), Cartographer's Amulet New creatures: Beetle (Earthquake), Pegataur Notes: The events in this module follow those of module M1. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) M3: Twilight Calling TSR No.: 9174 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Master, Mystara Characters: 4-6 of levels 30-35 Author: Tom Moldvay Year: 1986 What you get: A 32 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: The party is lured into an assault on the Carnifax (a malevolant race of beings which were imprisoned long ago) by Alphaks the Dark, who hopes to use the party to release this malevolance into the world. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: None Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) M4: Five Coins for a Kingdom TSR No.: 9204 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Master, Mystara Characters: 4-6 of levels 28-32 Author: Allen Varney Year: 1987 Price: $8.00 What you get: 40 page booklet and cover with fold-out of five coins. Summary: The city of Lighthall has vanished, and in it's place are 5 coins of amazing powers, including transportation to a fantastical realm where the city may be. New spells: None New magical items: Shadow Belt (Artifact) New creatures: Auratus Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) M5: Talons of Night TSR No.: 9214 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Master, Mystara Characters: 4-8 of levels 20-25 Author: Paul Jaquays Year: 1987 Price: $5.95 What you get: A 48 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: A diplomatic mission to the Isle of Dawn for an historic meeting between Alphatia and Thyatis goes sour, as several diplomats are kidnapped and the party is framed for it. New spells: None New magical items: Peaceful Periapt of Pax (Artifact) New creatures: Aketheti, Aranea, Dusker, Night Spider, Phanaton Notes: The events in this module follow those of module M2. There is a brief appendix detailing the Isle of Dawn. (This was the first product to detail the Isle of Dawn.) Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) Overview of the IM series modules: The Immortal Level modules don't have much of a level designation, but they are all for fairly new immortals. The setting for all three is the outer planes, but the background fluff ties them loosely with Mystara. IM1: Immortal Storm TSR No.: 9171 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Immortal, (Mystara) Characters: Novice temporals Author: Frank Mentzer Year: 1986 What you get: A 40 page module. Summary: An odd swirling gray mass of incalculable size, its center the shape of a huge humanoid eye has appeared at the boundary of the five dimensions. This deathstorm continues to grow and threaten the very realm of immortality. The hierarchs are testing various new Temporal Immortals and hope to send the most promising ones on an epic quest to rid the multiverse of this ominous gray mass. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: None Notes: The group travels to several planes, including that which contains Earth (weapon mastery rules are provided for handguns and the like). Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) IM2: Wrath of Olympus TSR No.: 9189 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Immortal, (Mystara) Characters: 4-5 temporals of levels 1-2 Author: Robert J. Blake Year: 1987 What you get: A 48 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters. Summary: Immortals lie chained atop a mountain in the broken lands. The fledgling immortals assume the guise of Darokin's legendary heroes, in order to preserve the prime material plane. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: None Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) IM3: Best of Intentions TSR No.: 9207 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Immortal, (Mystara) Characters: up to 6 temporals of levels 1-2 Author: Ken Rolston Year: 1987 Price: $4.95 What you get: A 48 page module which includes several pre-rolled characters, a fold-out map, and a second cover. Summary: Prime Plane immortals are dying violent deaths, and one of the Hierarchs is missing. It is up to the party to find the Hierarch, discover his kidnapper, and bring him or her to a court of Immortal Justice. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: None Notes: The party takes part in an Immortal Olympics. Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) Overview of the solo modules: All of the solo modules are for a single player, playing on his or her own. BSOLO is a basic level solo for a mage or elf. It takes place in the Ethengar Khanates, just over the border from Darokin, near the Streel river. The MSOLO modules were low level adventures which surfaced well before the Companion and Masters sets saw the light of day. They are based in Mystara (more or less retroactively as all older D&D adventures have been) and were the highlight your choices type of modules, which came with their own pen. BSOLO: Ghost of Lion Castle TSR No.: 9097 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Basic Solo, Mystara M1 (aka MSOLO1): Blizzard Pass TSR No.: 9067 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Basic Solo, Mystara Characters: 1 thief of level 1-3 Author: David Cook Year: 1983 New creatures: Rock or Cave Toad, Snow Ape M2 (aka MSOLO2): Maze of the Riddling Minotaur TSR No.: 9060 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Expert Solo, Mystara Characters: 1 of levels 1-10 Author: Jeff Grubb Year: 1983 New creatures: Giant Hunting Spider, Obsidian Golem, Pocket Dragon, Sacrol, Zombie-minotaur XS1 (aka XSOLO): Lathan's Gold TSR No.: 9082 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Expert Solo, Mystara Notes: This modules offers the first details on the islands of the Sea of Dread. (Excepting the Isle of Dread, of course.) It is a sea-borne solo adventure. XS2: Thunderdelve Mountain TSR No.: 9157 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D Expert Solo, Mystara Characters: 1 of levels 4-6 Overview of the O series modules: The O series features one-on-one gaming (one DM and one player). O1: Gem and the Staff TSR No.: 9050 Status: Out of print Setting: ?D&D Expert, Mystara Characters: 1 thief of level 8 Authors: John and Laurie Van de Graff Year: 1983 What you get: 16 page adventure booklet, 16 page map book and cover with fold-out cut-out character figures Summary: This module has two adventures: Tormaq's Tower and The Staff of Kazzlewood. A wizard needs a thief to brave these perils. Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) O2: Blade of Vengeance TSR No.: 9108 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D [???] Price: $6.00 Overview of the XL module: XL1 provides stats for the characters from TSR's D&D action figure line ("Strongheart, Warduke and other characters by LJN Toys Ltd.") and is meant to be played with them. These characters also appeared on TSR's Marvel-animation TV show and are referred to in X10 as the rulers of the Kingdom of Ierendi -- a nation that makes the greatest adventurers it's rulers. The adventure itself is an epic quest which takes place in Mystara. XL1: Quest for the Heartstone TSR No.: 9114 Status: Out of print Setting: D&D, ?Mystara Characters: 6-8 of level 5-10 Author: Micheal Gray Year: 1984 What you get: 32 page booklet (including 4 pages of illustrations) and a cover with a fold-out map Summary: The King is dead, and the Queen needs some adventurers to retrieve the heartstone. New spells: None New magical items: None New creatures: Dragonne, Roper, Hook Horror, Dragonfly Notes: This module makes a good tournament game with the Lawful and Chaotic parties competing (they're well-balanced against each other and the Chaotics are really vile). Contributed by: Steven M. Latour (s_latour@oz.plymouth.edu) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 07:32:11 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara On Wed, 10 Jan 1996 brizio@lunet.it wrote: > >fantasy - but as a budding engineer Gm'ing a group of other engineering > >and science types, we like to keep our fantasy a bit realistic. > > That's why my campaign doesn't include any 'Hollow World' - it's silly > >and unneccesary. Just use a convenient outer plane as the world zoo > >instead, like I do, and you have all the effect with none of the silly > >handwaving needed. If you were an Old One and had the choice between > >drafting an Outer Plane into service, or spend the rest of your endless > >existence supporting the World shield, which would you do ? > > > Wow, a fellow enginnering student GMing a group of science types. > As I always say to one of my PC (a biology student), which is often too > "scientist": "why do you cast spells, is it realistic ?" > Fantasy is fantasy, don't make it too realistic ! :-) > By the way, Mystara size from RC (or Randir o Ia letter) Well, when I talk about 'realistic' - I suppose I mean consistent with previous imformation and effects. Like, magic works the same way today as it did yesterday and will tomorrow, no poisoning your friends when you try to cast cure light wounds.. ;) The Hollow World concept is interesting, in its fashion, but it's inconsistent with the ENTIRE Blackmoor series of modules, and all the Blackmoor information given as part of 'known world' history. If the opening is at the north pole now - where was it when Blackmoor flourished ? Where did Blackmoor really go, since it supposedly ended up under the North Pole ? Where did Evergun go, since it was supposed to end up under the south pole - there's another hole there. Why wasn't Blackmoor preserved, if that's the point of the Hollow World ? Noo need to let the tech work inside - the way the 'World-shield' supposedly screws with magic, very few assumptions in physics and chemistry would hold true - at least in the Blackmoor Magitech version. Stick the Hollow World in a spherical outer plane deigned to conform to the interior dimensions of Mystara, place it in the astral congruent with Mystara, add cultures to taste. Outer Planes are well-known for messing with magic. Solves all the problems with Blackmoor, for one. Solves the impossibility of the World Shield for another. Any material with a structural rigidity and sufficient strength to perform as teh Shield describes would either be unstable because it's made out of neutronium, or collapse the first time an earthquake hit it and brought it out of perfect stability. I cannot suspend my disbelief over this - but you're of course perfectly entitled to do so. In fact, if you can, more power to you ;) Two other explanations are possible, of course. One - the World Shield exists, and there's an Old One standing by every milisecond and correcting all the minute instabilities as they happen, or holding up the shield. Perhaps a created Guardian Entity - but we couldn't tell the difference, because it would in any case overmatch the Immortals to such an extent that for all practical purposes... Two - The World Shield is in fact a *living* entity, that supports itelf by feeding on certain aspects of the magical field, thus precluding certain effects from working, and it's been created to keep itself spherical. (Sounds like a variation of One ?). this entity could very well be an Old One so imprisoned for crimes agains the others, or for the sake of a bet, or for some entirely unfathomable reason . Both explanations rely too much on the omnipotent, omiprescent, omiscent Old Ones to my liking. But as long as we're kicking this 'round the table - anyone else got any ideas ? ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #31 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #32 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, 11 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 032 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nightshade" Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 09:45:07 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] spells > > I often go a step farther and say that learning magic outside > >your culture is hard. For example, Ethengar magics are shamanistic > >and not even really written down, Traladar magics are more like > >Russian magic, Alphatian and Flaem magics are alien and elementalist > >in nature, Ylari magics are physically demanding (dancing and > >singing), gnomish stuff is based on their pseudo-science, faeries on > >their immortal nature, etc. It's possible to cross-polinate, but > >very difficult. It's more useful to just invent a spell in your own > >paradigm that imitates the foreign spell. > > > Yes, I agree with you, but:1) not all Ethengarian spellcasters are shamans, > there are also Hakomons. They are few and live out of clans, but > nervertheless they exist. 2) Alphatian are an alien race, but their magical > system is not dissimilar from the "Glantrian" one. I was talking about the hakomon - the book describes their magic as definately 'not normal', relying on animal spirits, the Spirit Mountain, etc. I'd have to say that Alphatian magic and Glantrian magic are similar, but only as similar as French and Italian. Glantri's magic is also heavily influenced by bel Cadiz elven magic (ie. post-Broken Lands Icevale Elves), Thyatian magic, Traldar, Darokin, Wendar and Essurian magics + the magics of fantasy Scotland and France. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 07:57:04 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects On Wed, 10 Jan 1996 brizio@lunet.it wrote: > At 14.29 10/01/96 GMT, you wrote: > Unfortunately I haven't got Saga of the Shadow Lord (and I think I'll never > find that her in Italy...sigh) but from the almanacs, WOTI and various > mention here and there, I think that Wendar is an elven-controlled kingdom > west of Heldann and north of Glantri with few humans. Well, given the information in Saga of the Shadowlord (X11, for those who wondered) about establishing dominions for the characters, it's clear that the land is human-dominated - since the population in any lands established as baronies for the characters, including demi-humans, will be predominantly human. I took that to signify that the lands were human... Oh, and where there's some military information given, the army is exclusively human. If the elves were so widespread as the Almanacs seem to think, I for one would recruit any and all elves for the army *first* - - before creating human units. Since there aren't any - apart from the *occacional* scout - I can't believe that the lands are elven. Oh, and it's clear from the module (if you read up on it ;) ) that the king is in fact a human magic-user. So is the major foe, and in the background information you wil note that while there were three human armies attacking the Shadow Lord the first time around, there were hardly any elves with them. And the armies were from Wendar... > > >>Shadow Lord for details. It's only in the WoTI that elven refugees from > >>the (stupid) Shadowelf invasion reach them. Up until that point Wendar > >>was fairly exclusively human, and unless the refugees get involved in > >>some fairly heavy-handed oppressing of the natives, likely to remain so. > > > >The almanac states expressively FEW humans. There seems to be no unity at > >TSR concerning Mystara. In the Poor Wizard's Almanac of AC 1012 they > >changed everything concerning Oenkmar and the City of the Stars, now they > >changed Wendar. And you're right, I also think the Shadow Elf invasion was > >stupid. > I didn't read AC 1012 fully, what's the problem with Oenkmar ? > The Shadow Elf invasion was not stupid ! Alfheim elf are stupid ! *Grin* - I can tell you play a shadow elf, right ? Well, I think the Shadow Elf invasion is stupid for two reasons. One - the whole WoTI central idea is stupid - Etienne D'Ambreville wouldn't act like that idiot with his name on it in the module, neither would Ixion. Two - It's based on the idea of Shadow Elves as EEEEEEVIL Dark Elves Living Underground And Coming Back Up. Bugger that. Yes, I've read the reasoning here about how they were forced out by lack of living space... but that's not how it's presented in the official supplement, now is it ? > > > >> Culturally, Wendar seems to resemble 12-14th century England with a > >>rather more feudal culture than the rest of the continent, but there are > >>some bits that remind me of the Frankish Normans ( as opposed to the > >>British Normans who were the Scandinavian descendants that left France > >>and invaded Britain.) > > > >Where did you get that much information about Wendar? I'm still looking for > >some old D&D-material to fill my gaps of knowledge. From the entry in the > >Almanac it sounds more like an elven kingdom in the north, Alfheim turned > >Northern Reaches, if you know what I mean. Well, yes that's what the Almanacs say. That's not what Saga of the Shadow Lord says ;) See above for my reasoning on the human dominance. The reason I feel it's a somewhat Norman culture comes mainly from the information about their military, which resembles the feudal norman setup in England a whole lot - while the description of the king's city seems very much like some french towns in Normandie. Given that almost every other medieval culture have gotten their place in the Known World, I like to think of Wendar as the Norman equivalent ;) > >Glory for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! > > > >Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon > >Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- Well, we're playing the Norwold Campaign right now, so I suppose I should agree with you. Especially since Alphatia won't sink (at least not like in WoTI) in my campaign. On the other hand, if one of the players has his way, Ericall will secede from Alphatia ;) ------------------------------ From: Randir o Ia Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 09:30:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Blackmoor and the Like Actually Blackmoor is located on which is currently the souther continent of Davidia.. and so is Evergrun (which is very close to the hole.. All of your ponderings about Blackmoor are taken care of in the Hollow World boxed set (which also has all of the statistics for the size of the world on the main maps).. I've spent way too much time looking at those maps so I'll let you figure out all the gory details.. _____________________________________________________________________________ || Im raena mi lokeryn pella agarwaen nore. === || === Sinome i mornie lanta ve ulma tenn'ungwe. // \||/ \\ \\ /||\ // Ar i alata o engwa anar quanta vilya a canre. === || === Ilye er im estela ring denie o gurth u-nai nin. __||__ \ / Abyssal Wanderer http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd \/ _____________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: Randir o Ia Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 09:34:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara Sorry about that... The Elves were in souther Davania and Blackmoor was located on Skothar.. far away from the known world setting.. Actually around the location of Esterhold.. so sue me :) _____________________________________________________________________________ || Im raena mi lokeryn pella agarwaen nore. === || === Sinome i mornie lanta ve ulma tenn'ungwe. // \||/ \\ \\ /||\ // Ar i alata o engwa anar quanta vilya a canre. === || === Ilye er im estela ring denie o gurth u-nai nin. __||__ \ / Abyssal Wanderer http://www.canisius.edu/~goehrigd \/ _____________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 15:54:33 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects At 19.53 10/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >> > Hollow World: Warrior Elves, Beastmen, Brute-Men, Hutaakans, Krugel Orcs, >> > Kubitts, Malpheggi Lizard Men. >> Warrior Elves are really a class more than a race. >True enough.. as are Dwarf-clerics, Hin Masters, Elf Treekeepers, and a >couple others. :) (Let's see.. Foresters, humans trained as elves, and >Rakes, swashbuckling thieves minus pickpocketing.. anybody remember what >else there was?) > >-- >Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.c Yes: merchants (Darokin) & merchant-princes (Minrothad), then dervish from Ylaruam (they are named "dervisci" in the italian traslation of Gaz2, I don't know if the english name is the same one). ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 16:13:11 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects On Wed, 10 Jan 1996 10:03:00 -0500, Joseph DuBois \?x44303\? wrote: >Skothar is east of Alphaitia. (basically europe). I have started Everything east of Alphatia is foreign territory for me. I have to catch up on Bellissaria and the Jennites by looking in the PWA of 1010 AC. >detailing the southern coast in Toowin's travels on my web site, >but work has finally caught up to me. I was hoping to have a >new installment each month. If others want to send me ideas or >post their own, go ahead. Once I get all the map grids completed >I can post a gif file that will allow you to create your own >hex maps like TSR's. I will definitely take a look at your web site, and if I get some fresh ideas you will hear from me. Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 16:15:11 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] spells On Wed, 10 Jan 96 15:07:53 +0100, brizio@lunet.it wrote: >P.S.: maybe you wonder why I am so concerned with Shadow Elves and magic. >Well, I have a party of Shadow Elves and they are currently in Glantri. I thought so by your signature. DM in the City of the Stars? Sounds quite interesting. Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:51:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara On Thu, 11 Jan 1996, Oeystein H. Lund. wrote: > On Wed, 10 Jan 1996 brizio@lunet.it wrote: [snip] > The Hollow World concept is interesting, in its fashion, but it's > inconsistent with the ENTIRE Blackmoor series of modules, and all the > Blackmoor information given as part of 'known world' history. If the > opening is at the north pole now - where was it when Blackmoor > flourished ? Where did Blackmoor really go, since it supposedly ended up > under the North Pole ? Where did Evergun go, since it was supposed to end > up under the south pole - there's another hole there. Why wasn't > Blackmoor preserved, if that's the point of the Hollow World ? Noo need > to let the tech work inside - the way the 'World-shield' supposedly > screws with magic, very few assumptions in physics and chemistry would > hold true - at least in the Blackmoor Magitech version. > Stick the Hollow World in a spherical outer plane deigned to conform to > the interior dimensions of Mystara, place it in the astral congruent with > Mystara, add cultures to taste. Outer Planes are well-known for messing > with magic. Solves all the problems with Blackmoor, for one. Solves the > impossibility of the World Shield for another. Any material with a > structural rigidity and sufficient strength to perform as teh Shield > describes would either be unstable because it's made out of neutronium, > or collapse the first time an earthquake hit it and brought it out of > perfect stability. I cannot suspend my disbelief over this - but you're > of course perfectly entitled to do so. In fact, if you can, more power to > you ;) [two other interesting ideas snipped] > But as long as we're kicking this 'round the table - anyone else got > any ideas ? I'm not really concerned with the debate on HW, but I do find it interesting to consider other ideas like the two you mentioned, just for fun. How about this one?--What if, like you prefer, the HW is an outer plane of convenient dimensions. but ALSO, there are various gates to this outer plane on Mystara, corresponding to what are mistakenly believed to be physical openings to the inner world? That is, there would be a magical region surrounding each pole that gates creatures to the outer plane, and vice versa. You could also have various other gates, like the one in the temple in the Atraughin clans. Now wouldn't it be interesting if the Immortals specifically made one of the gating zones on Mystara surround the buried Blackmoor, precisely to keep anyone from rediscovering it and repeating its mistakes (compare to Nithia)? Ideas, not theories-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ David "Azure" Leland ~~~ azure@cs.oberlin.edu ~~ ~~ Creative Writing, Cognitive Science ~~~ phone/fax: (216) 775-5582 ~~ ~~ Oberlin College ~~~ http://www.oberlin.edu/~dleland ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 17:18:26 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Wed, 10 Jan 1996 12:42:33 -0500 (EST), David 'Azure' Leland wrote: >confrontation he'd have with Atzantoetl if he held the shadow elves back, >Rafiel decided to support the invasion. That's what I had in mind too... He never abandoned the Shadow Elves. >Mystara, if we think the Shadow Elves are just plain evil, well then just >about the whole real world's people are and have been just plain evil. >Not a very useful way of looking at it, I think. They're Shadow Elves and not the plain evil Drow. A player in one of my e-mail campaigns wanted to play a bad guy, so he chose a dark Elf, a Shadow Elf. It was hard work explaining that Shadow Elves aren't necessariliy evil. >perhaps, or maybe the ruler of the abovegroud area doesn't want everyone >to run away because she (? it is princess whomever, isn't it?) doesn't Princess Tanadaleyo. Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- ------------------------------ From: Wildmule@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 11:33:34 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Fwd: Re: Mystara web page Hi, all! I finally had time to e-mail Sean Reynolds, TSR net rep and web guru, concerning the possibilities of an official Mystara web page that allows uploads of materials (like all the great stuff that's been flying by here on the mystara list!). It's already part of their plan! Here's what he said... Best regards, Ann Dupuis - --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: Mystara web page Date: 96-01-10 12:33:18 EST From: TSR Inc To: Wildmule <> Yes! And for Spelljammer, Greyhawk, Al-Qadim, etc. Every line. <> Yes! :) Please assure them that I intent to have online support for all TSR lines, past and present. - - Sean Reynolds TSR Online Coordinator TSRinc@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 17:34:15 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects On Wed, 10 Jan 96 15:30:15 +0100, brizio@lunet.it wrote: >Unfortunately I haven't got Saga of the Shadow Lord (and I think I'll never >find that her in Italy...sigh) but from the almanacs, WOTI and various >mention here and there, I think that Wendar is an elven-controlled kingdom >west of Heldann and north of Glantri with few humans. Same problems of getting old Mystara material in Italy? I know how it feels.:-) >Maybe in X## Saga of The Shadow Lord ? Maybe. Another item for my long list of wishes. Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 17:39:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Greetings On Wed, 10 Jan 96 22:42:06 +0100, brizio@lunet.it wrote: >It's hard to get the Gazzetteers in Italy too, however I own 13 of them (if >only I could find Gaz8...). But that's my problem, not yours. Right at the moment I own three though more are on the way. A friend of mine got five more for me. GAZ8, isn't that the Five Shires? I have it... >You said Akorros... I got Gaz11 where I can find a half page about Akorros, >but that's not very interesting stuff especially if you don't read Gaz11 >fully. I can send something to you, let me know what you need (general info, >maps,...). Maybe, if your campaign is set after WOTI those information may >be a bit outdated. Some general info about Akkorros would be appreciated. I don't need maps. >My campaign ? I have a party of three Shadow Elves. Currently (1002) they're >on the surface, in Glantri. Some years ago I had a party of 3 Karameikans, >but then two of them stopped playing and the group was broken. By the way: >we still play with OD&D rules. Not that much different from AD&D, IMHO. And what are the goals of the Shadow Elves? Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 18:13:24 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects On Thu, 11 Jan 1996 07:57:04 -0600 (CST), Oeystein H. Lund. wrote: >Shadow Lord says ;) See above for my reasoning on the human dominance. I really have to look for X11. Sounds great. > Well, we're playing the Norwold Campaign right now, so I suppose I >should agree with you. > Especially since Alphatia won't sink (at least not like in WoTI) in my >campaign. That's the only thing that really bugged me about WotI. The most interesting culture simply extinguished. And it worries me deeply that the Hollow World seems to be cancelled. What about Alphatia? I have to think something up. > On the other hand, if one of the players has his way, Ericall will >secede from Alphatia ;) No problem. Ericall is a wimp.;-) Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Frank Schober Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 13:29:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Self Intro + Product List Hello, I've just recently subscribed to this list. I'm a longtime fan of the OD&D game, and supporter of Mystara (barring the recent AD&D2 reprints). It's been a few years since I've DMed in the setting, but plans are afoot to rectify that. On with the show ... > Note: I don't remember where I got this, but you might want to see if > Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) has a WWW page.. > Note2: There should be a 6th part, the recent 2nd. ed. AD&D boxes, but I > have neither found it or bothered to write it yet. Volunteers...? :) (wow I've reached legendary status already ;} ) The Product Listings posted were part of a grand net plan a couple of years ago to codify all of TSR's offerings. I have no idea what became of it (and no longer know who maintains it, assuming of course that someone still does), although the Listing probably lurks somewhere on MPGNet in all its glory. Frank - -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Frank M. Schober University of Cincinnati "Ambition is a poor excuse Department of Aerospace Engineering for those without the sense & Engineering Mechanics enough to be lazy" fschober@uceng.uc.edu %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ------------------------------ From: "M. Shaffer" Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 13:31:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects >>Unfortunately I haven't got Saga of the Shadow Lord (and I think I'll never >>find that her in Italy...sigh) but from the almanacs, WOTI and various >>mention here and there, I think that Wendar is an elven-controlled kingdom >>west of Heldann and north of Glantri with few humans. > >Same problems of getting old Mystara material in Italy? I know how it >feels.:-) > >>Maybe in X## Saga of The Shadow Lord ? > >Maybe. Another item for my long list of wishes. Do you get Dragon magazine? If so, there is a dealer in the U.S. called Zocchi Distributers. They usually have an ad in every issue for Gamescience dice or Twerps RPG or similar stuff. They have tons of out of print TSR goods. They probably have the items you are looking for. I don't know what kind of problems you would have with sending them U.S. currency, but it might be worth a try. P.S. I am not trying to advertise for them. I am just trying to help out fellow gamers in desperate need. :-) ------------------------------ From: jam@wimsey.com (Jennifer Mott) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:32:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Mailing List Troubles! Help! Something weird is happening with respect to my subscription to the mystara mailing list and I'm wondering if (a) anyone else is having these sorts of problems and (b) anyone has a suggestion about how to fix it. Here's the scoop: First, I'm subscribed to BOTH the list and the digest. The idea was so that I could read and respond to messages as they were sent out, but also get a the nicely formated digest for personal archival reasons. Okay, here's what's happening: I'm getting sporadic single messages from the list (like maybe one in eight or ten if I'm lucky) and I've missed at least one digest that I'm aware of (Number 29). I've written to the listmaster at owner-mystara-l and owner-mystara-digest about this problem but he hasn't responded so I don't know if he (a) got the messages or (b) could do anything to help even if he did get them. Missing individual messages isn't terrible -- as long as I get the digest I'll get the threads. It just means that I can't respond to messages as a thread grows. However, I've missed one digest and so I don't have ANY of those messages at all. Can anyone help me out here? - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- aka. Jenni A. Merrifield PS: Would it be possible to have someone who did receive Digest 29 mail me a copy? Thanks. - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield : ............ ............... : Black Holes Are Merely jam@wimsey.com : Where God Divided By Zero htpp://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/ : ............... ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 18:01:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] PBeMs? Just wondering, are there any Mystara-based PBeMs around? Especially ones with openings? :) I'm currently playing one in a slightly-altered Mystara (A past PC time-travel attempt slightly altered one molecule at the Blackmoor explosion, and things gradually depart from there), 1025 AC. My character is my favorite race, Phanaton (PC stats and misc. info upon request.. hint, hint! :) ), and is just discovering the Big Wide World.. :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #32 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #33 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Friday, 12 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 033 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 15:48:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Timeline > Wow ! Mystara timeline is really a great work. > We can add to the Timeline events described in Champions of Mystara about > The Great Waste, Sind, Graakhalia, Ulimwengu and Yavdlom. > Then there is something about the Savage Coast and the Savage Baronies in > Red Steel. > If you want I can do all the work, but it will take some time (weeks ??). I've already started on both items; I posted what I'd already written out in full. Soon as I finish CoM and RS, I'll email it upon request (or post it to the list, if more than two people ask for it. :) ). - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Berg Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 13:03:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] PBeMs? Shouldn't you let the DM choose whether or not to advertise? *sigh* Well, he is right, it is slightly altered (if this is slight, I'd hate to see major!) I have space for two more players, but you'll have to generate the character yourself. If I get more than two responses, I'll pick the two with the best background and such. Here's the operative rules: Characters start out at level 1, with max hp. Any 2nd edition kit is ok, as is any class (or make up a new one), just clear it with me first. The world is actually OD&D Mystara converted to 2nd edition rules, not the current stuff TSR is sending out, so a lot of that won't apply (WotI doesn't apply to my variant either). Extra language slots from intelligence are NWP slots, a language costs 1 NWP slot. Your character automatically speaks his/her native language, without spending any slots. Only fighters and fighter subclasses can spend Int slots on weapon proficiencies, although any warrior-type can specialize. (warriors can multiple-specialize). I do have S&P, so if you really want to use it, you can (I personally don't like to go to all the bother, but some people like that stuff). A background and personality profile are absolutely required. I'll reject any character without one. Try to include at least a page of background, and a fairly detailed personality profile. Oh yes, ambidexterity can be taken as a weapon proficiency slot (but please people, let's not have EVERY character be ambidextrous, ok?) Characters starts with max gold, and you have to use it to buy everything. Exceptions are priests and paladins start with a holy symbol, mages start with a spellbook. Clerics are not allowed, specialty priests only. If it's not in your equipment list, YOU DO NOT HAVE IT. Ahem. Ok, brief info on the world: Dan's assesment of the world is fairly accurate, if a bit sketchy. The original PCs in the campaign went back in time to Blackmoor, and tried to stop the destruction. They only partially succeeded. Instead of being totally annihilated, the city survived. The planetary axis shifted though, so they had to evacuate in a hurry. Things diverge from there, but not by any real amount, until 1002 AC. In 1002 AC, a Spelljamming empire contacted Mystara's governments, and placed colonies in some regions of the planet. This was not seen as colonization by the local empires, this was regarded as an invasion (they didn't act on it though, they waited to see what the newcomers could do). Shortly thereafter, Alphaks found a way to destroy Alphatia, and used it on Bellisaria, totally destroying all life on the continent. He was annihilated shortly after that, by the people he stole the idea from (he didn't think a mortal could kill him, so he didn't bother to shield himself). BOOM. It's not common knowledge who destroyed him, only that he was destroyed in a massive fireball of some sort. Characters can be from any of the published TSR worlds, or theoretically they can be from ANY world (including Star Trek, but their technology won't work on Mystara). They can also be from the Sirum Empire, who are the people who took out Alphaks. The Empire is an ultra-high magic environment, but trade restrictions are enforced on Mystara, so don't count on a PC having any of it. You can choose any point on Mystara to start in, or you can start at the space port orbiting the planet (Spelljammer rules :) ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 16:14:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara Grabbing my ever-handy Hollow World boxed set, here are my own answers to your questions; read, ignore, or laugh at as you will. :) > > If the > > opening is at the north pole now - where was it when Blackmoor > > flourished ? Well, according the the HW boxes set, originally there were two much smaller openings to the HW in the then-current North and South Poles. > > Where did Blackmoor really go, since it supposedly ended up > > under the North Pole ? Where did Evergun go, since it was supposed to end > > up under the south pole - there's another hole there. I suppose blowing itself up doesn't count as going somewhere.. :) When they did go boom, the axis of the planet moved so that where Blackmoor was was the new North Pole, and Evergrun at the south. The Polar Openings were sticking off at about 25 degrees or so. Then the Immortals stepped in, sealed up the old holes, and dug new ones at the new poles - right overtop of Blackmoor and Vulcania! Who knows what they did with the excised pieces.. Muahaha.. er.. . > > Why wasn't > > Blackmoor preserved, if that's the point of the Hollow World ? Well, it's kind of hard to preserve ionized gases.. Even Alphatia was still all there, just underwater, when they moved it to the HW. Besides, would You want to preserve them, when they'd likely just blow themselves up again? > > Solves all the problems with Blackmoor, for one. Solves the > > impossibility of the World Shield for another. Any material with a > > structural rigidity and sufficient strength to perform as teh Shield > > describes would either be unstable because it's made out of neutronium, > > or collapse the first time an earthquake hit it and brought it out of > > perfect stability. Here's an idea.. the World Shield is made of a really-dense, but still mostly liquid (permitting volcanoes) molten material never found in our own universe? We don't have to worry overmuch about gravity, as if Spelljamming ships can generate 1g, so can something with the surface area of a planet. :) BTW, most of the magic-affecting stuff is from the Spell of Preservation cast on the HW, not the World Shield itself. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: "The Dark Elf." Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:44:35 +1100 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Thu, 11 Jan 1996, Andrea Stadtfeld wrote: > On Wed, 10 Jan 1996 12:42:33 -0500 (EST), > David 'Azure' Leland wrote: > > >confrontation he'd have with Atzantoetl if he held the shadow elves back, > >Rafiel decided to support the invasion. > > That's what I had in mind too... He never abandoned the Shadow Elves. if he had of abandoned them.. it would have been noticed by no more clerical ability... even if they come through the soul crystals.. > > >Mystara, if we think the Shadow Elves are just plain evil, well then just > >about the whole real world's people are and have been just plain evil. > >Not a very useful way of looking at it, I think. > > They're Shadow Elves and not the plain evil Drow. A player in one of my > e-mail campaigns wanted to play a bad guy, so he chose a dark Elf, a Shadow > Elf. It was hard work explaining that Shadow Elves aren't necessariliy evil. well the shadow elves are the misunderstood race of Mystara... they are seen as evil, while they are good at heart, but just following what their immortal had told them... and the harsh environment they are in does not make them seem any more kind hearted... > >perhaps, or maybe the ruler of the abovegroud area doesn't want everyone > >to run away because she (? it is princess whomever, isn't it?) doesn't > > Princess Tanadaleyo. > > > > Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! > > Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon > Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- > btw.. I have one as a NPC in glantri... looking to open up a principality in one of the mountains... there are plenty of room there for the shadow elves to use... - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Martin | "Everything has it's own unique beauty...... | |The Dark Elf | when you look at it from the right perspective"| - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 00:55:46 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Timeline At 15.48 11/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >> Wow ! Mystara timeline is really a great work. >> We can add to the Timeline events described in Champions of Mystara about >> The Great Waste, Sind, Graakhalia, Ulimwengu and Yavdlom. >> Then there is something about the Savage Coast and the Savage Baronies in >> Red Steel. >> If you want I can do all the work, but it will take some time (weeks ??). > >I've already started on both items; I posted what I'd already written out >in full. Soon as I finish CoM and RS, I'll email it upon request (or post >it to the list, if more than two people ask for it. :) ). > >-- >Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca > I ask for it. Thank you. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 00:55:52 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion At 16.08 11/01/96 +0100, you wrote: >Hi! > >>Their culture, their private immortal (at least the one described in >>the gazeteer), > >Do you mean Rafiel? I have not read the Shadow Elf Gazetteer, but I thought >they were mainly followers of Rafiel, with only a minor following of >Atzanteotl. > Gaz13 says that: "Azanteotl's followers are all humanoids. He has no shadow elves followers left outside the Land of the Red Sun (HW)." It also says that Azanteotl believe Rafiel is evil and entropic, because of his strange pratices with stillborn babies and old elves. Maybe the invaders of Oenkmar could turn to Azanteotl, because Oenkmar was built by the same elf tribe of Azanteotl and is someway a city "sacred" to him. About Rafiel and his support to shadow elf invasion: the last of the 14 verses of the refuge of stone (the verse of promised bounty) says: "I am Rafiel. If all my children follow my way and the Way of the shamans, then all good things will come to them, for I, Rafiel, will guide you." And what is better for a shadow elf then to realize the dream of living again in a forest, among trees with butterflys flying around and.... >>the side of "good". And, much more important (at least to players'n'DMs) >>they lost the mystical flair they had before they were an everyday >>political power. Now they're just another race of evil - well they already >>live not far away from the orcs and trolls and other goblinoids. > >That's true, but they fought against the humanoids and dwarves trying to >conquer Oenkmar. They could be quite a nice race, at least a neutral >interesting race. They're not everyday-Elves, and such as they can get >quite popular, if you take a look at Drizzt from FR. > People thinks that shadow elves are evil mainly for 2 reasons: 1)The Drow of FR (I don't know much of them, but my FR DM told me they are evil) 2)The fact that both Gaz5 and Creature Catalog describe them as chaotic monsters. That is the Alfheimish point of view, not all surface elves think like that (e.g. Norwold elves that tried to help Shadow Elf with the forest magic). > > >Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! > >Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon >Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- > > By the way: Gaz13 lists some elven nations. Among them there is Wendar. And Gaz13 was issued in 1990, before WOTI. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Jason Zavoda Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 19:01:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mailing List Troubles! Hello I just placed my name on the Mystara list in the last week and I have never heard of there being a digest. Can someone tell me how you get this digest and what it is? Thanks Jason Zavoda On Thu, 11 Jan 1996, Jennifer Mott wrote: > Help! > > Something weird is happening with respect to my subscription to the > mystara mailing list and I'm wondering if (a) anyone else is having > these sorts of problems and (b) anyone has a suggestion about how to fix > it. > > Here's the scoop: First, I'm subscribed to BOTH the list and the > digest. The idea was so that I could read and respond to messages as > they were sent out, but also get a the nicely formated digest for > personal archival reasons. > > Okay, here's what's happening: I'm getting sporadic single messages > from the list (like maybe one in eight or ten if I'm lucky) and I've > missed at least one digest that I'm aware of (Number 29). I've written > to the listmaster at owner-mystara-l and owner-mystara-digest about this > problem but he hasn't responded so I don't know if he (a) got the > messages or (b) could do anything to help even if he did get them. > > Missing individual messages isn't terrible -- as long as I get the > digest I'll get the threads. It just means that I can't respond to > messages as a thread grows. However, I've missed one digest and so I > don't have ANY of those messages at all. Can anyone help me out here? > > -=< strawberryJAMM >=- > aka. Jenni A. Merrifield > > PS: Would it be possible to have someone who did receive Digest 29 mail > me a copy? Thanks. > > -- > Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield : ............ > ............... : Black Holes Are Merely > jam@wimsey.com : Where God Divided By Zero > htpp://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/ : ............... > ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 19:53:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Timeline stuff If anybody out there wants to comb through their 40 lbs. of Mystara books and find all those little details that tend to escape notice, you're welcome to help me. :) I'm only missing some of the modules and Really early works, and would appreciate info on them as well. BTW, once I put the Timeline into satisfactory shape (probably adding details from the Almanacs), anybody want to help me with a Geography? How about a Personalities List? Or maybe... ;) P.S.: I understand in some of the CM modules they presented a skymap.. any descriptions of it? Or of the planetary system (other than what's in the gold-box Immortals set)? - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 19:15:50 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Greetings Hi Andrea! On Mi 10.01.1996 around 15:35:23 you wrote in message "[Mystara] Greetings" > I'm a new member of this mailing list, and want to introduce myself. Great to see you back online! If you remember we had an interesting Mystara-related discussion a while back regarding gazetteers. I still can get some of those gazetteers for you if you still need them. > What I want to find out in this mailing list is, if any more products from > TSR come up, or if the line will be cancelled (my personal nightmare) and > how other people's campaigns look like. I guess your nightmare is quit true. As is mine. But the good side of things is that we Mystara DMs are now on our own and can save a lot of money. :-/ > Anybody got information about > Akorros? My players plan a trip there, you know. Akorros is described in GAZ 11: The Republic of Darokin. It is the "twin city" of Akesoli and has a population of about 23.000. To cite from GAZ 11: "The most important political institution in Akorros is the Thieves Guild." :-) > Glory for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Oops, can't agree here. :-) By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 20:35:16 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara > > > > Where did Blackmoor really go, since it supposedly ended up > > > under the North Pole ? Where did Evergun go, since it was supposed to end > > > up under the south pole - there's another hole there. > I suppose blowing itself up doesn't count as going somewhere.. :) When > they did go boom, the axis of the planet moved so that where Blackmoor > was was the new North Pole, and Evergrun at the south. The Polar Openings > were sticking off at about 25 degrees or so. > Then the Immortals stepped in, sealed up the old holes, and dug new ones > at the new poles - right overtop of Blackmoor and Vulcania! Who knows > what they did with the excised pieces.. Muahaha.. er.. . Well, one certain piece of Blackmoor wound up under Glantri ... and the Immortals probably used parts of what was left of Vulcania to build that colony of Techno-Elves in the Hollow World (forget name). Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 20:50:19 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > Maybe the invaders of Oenkmar could turn to Azanteotl, because Oenkmar was > built by the same elf tribe of Azanteotl and is someway a city "sacred" to him. > About Rafiel and his support to shadow elf invasion: the last of the 14 > verses of the refuge of stone (the verse of promised bounty) says: "I am > Rafiel. If all my children follow my way and the Way of the shamans, then > all good things will come to them, for I, Rafiel, will guide you." And what > is better for a shadow elf then to realize the dream of living again in a > forest, among trees with butterflys flying around and.... My own feeling about the Shadow Elf invasion is that Rafiel (who I'd describe as being Neutral or maybe Lawful Neutral) was willing to support the Shadow Elves invasion of Alfheim because it was necessary at the time to help Rad (alignment pretty much the same) and do damage to Ilsundal (opposing Rad and co. -- see WOTI). NOW, however, after the War is over, and the various Immortals all have egg on their faces (for my money, Thanatos set up the whole thing ...), he wants to get the Shadow Elves the heck out of Aengmor, since their contacts with other races are beginning to really corrupt them (every time they have any dealings with outer world cultures, they always increase their bad reputation, which leads to more bad dealings, and so on ... vicious circle, anyone?) which is why the Shadow Elves haven't been able to slow down the destruction of the forest of Aengmor .. in fact, in the AC 1012 Gazetteer, it's mentioned that more and more Shadow Elves are becoming disenchanted with Aengmor ... In my campaign (AC 1025, currently on the drawing board), the Shadow Elves have abandoned Aengmor, and the Elves are just beginning to resettle (and reforest) the area. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 00:09:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor (was: What size is Mystara) > Well, one certain piece of Blackmoor wound up under Glantri ... > and the Immortals probably used parts of what was left of Vulcania to > build that colony of Techno-Elves in the Hollow World (forget name). Actually, that particular piece in Glantri isn't precisely Blackmoorabilia; it's the engine core of the F.S.S. Beagle, which crash-landed on Mystara while Blackmoor was only part of the Empire of Thonia. See DA2, DA3, and WotI for more details.. You mean the Blacklore elves, right? They were transplanted about 2,400 BC, 600 years after the Great Rain of Fire. And soon after, volcanic eruptions destroyed the last heating machines of the southern elves, and they all perished. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: "M. Shaffer" Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 04:18:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Timeline >>> Wow ! Mystara timeline is really a great work. >>> We can add to the Timeline events described in Champions of Mystara about > The Great Waste, Sind, Graakhalia, Ulimwengu and Yavdlom. > Then there is something about the Savage Coast and the Savage Baronies in > Red Steel. > If you want I can do all the work, but it will take some time (weeks ??). > >I've already started on both items; I posted what I'd already written out >in full. Soon as I finish CoM and RS, I'll email it upon request (or post >it to the list, if more than two people ask for it. :) ). > >-- >Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca I would also like to see it. :-) M. Shaffer mshaffer@bluefin.net ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 03:40:15 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara On Thu, 11 Jan 1996, Daniel Boese wrote: > Grabbing my ever-handy Hollow World boxed set, here are my own answers to > your questions; read, ignore, or laugh at as you will. :) > > > > If the > > > opening is at the north pole now - where was it when Blackmoor > > > flourished ? > Well, according the the HW boxes set, originally there were two much > smaller openings to the HW in the then-current North and South Poles. Interesting thought : would the F.S.S Beagle have detected these openings in their pre-planetfall survey ? If they did, odds are that they sent probes, perhaps robots into there, followed by a manned scout. This bunch of people would have been abandoned in the crash, since the Beagle hadn't enough resources to mount a recue mission... Would that count as a possible seed culture ? > > > > Where did Blackmoor really go, since it supposedly ended up > > > under the North Pole ? Where did Evergun go, since it was supposed to end > > > up under the south pole - there's another hole there. > I suppose blowing itself up doesn't count as going somewhere.. :) When > they did go boom, the axis of the planet moved so that where Blackmoor > was was the new North Pole, and Evergrun at the south. The Polar Openings > were sticking off at about 25 degrees or so. > Then the Immortals stepped in, sealed up the old holes, and dug new ones > at the new poles - right overtop of Blackmoor and Vulcania! Who knows > what they did with the excised pieces.. Muahaha.. er.. . Is this according to the boxed sets ? I dont remember seeing anything like this in them - which is partly why I'm frustrated with the entire concept ;) On the other hand,this would involve making holes in teh world-shield - didn't the boxed set state that the Immortals could do no such thing ? Not to mention recreating the material in the previous holes - Although they'd probably have a lot of spare parts from the 'new' holes, the material would need to be 'welded' to the sides of the hole - and to have a stable bond means to recreate the material filling the cap, and recreating all the molecular-level links. If the Immortals could do that - - why were they so surprised and puzzled at finding the *material* of the world shield ? > > > > Why wasn't > > > Blackmoor preserved, if that's the point of the Hollow World ? > Well, it's kind of hard to preserve ionized gases.. Even Alphatia was > still all there, just underwater, when they moved it to the HW. Besides, > would You want to preserve them, when they'd likely just blow themselves > up again? Sure. But the Immortals involve the Sphere of Time - and when the PC's (like in my campaign) have the option of visiting Blackmoor through the Inn between the Worlds (DA1-4), I don't see why the Sphere of Time Immortals coudn't step in and nab a percentage of the population a few seconds before they were converted to volatiles. Hell, even a Wish from a non-time Immortal would be able to nab a few and transport them -repeat until you have enough people.... > > Here's an idea.. the World Shield is made of a really-dense, but still > mostly liquid (permitting volcanoes) molten material never found in our > own universe? We don't have to worry overmuch about gravity, as if > Spelljamming ships can generate 1g, so can something with the surface > area of a planet. :) Well, I don't use Spelljaming in my campaign because I find the whole prmise of Crystal Spheres and the spelljamming ships totally ridiculous- and as for the liquid idea.. well, then youd either need a Force Field supporting the Shield (and what about the ends with the hole ?) or watch the whole thing collapse as it seeps centerwards and pools in the middle of the HWR - right on top of the planar gate. Why ? Well, if the liquid 'exerts' 1G in all directions, and has no structural rigidity ( as liquid implies) the center vector for the force will be in the middle of the sphere defined by the World Shield - and the liquid would seep inwards from all sides at 1G acceleration... For my part, I like the idea David 'Azure' presented earlier, about the 'openings ' to the hollow world being Gates to my outer-planar setting for it. This would make the substance mortals see as the World-Shield be the material of the walls in the Wormhole. > BTW, most of the magic-affecting stuff is from the Spell of Preservation > cast on the HW, not the World Shield itself. > Well, the Outer Planar idea/theory would account for it too - anf frankly I just cant see the Immortals messing with the Prime Material so much as the HW implies when there's perfectly good outer planes available. > > -- > Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca > > > ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #33 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #34 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Friday, 12 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 034 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Berg Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 01:57:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara Hey, even a non-divine wish could snatch a portion of the population, if the wisher were in the proper time period. And I tend to agree about crystal spheres and spelljammer, which is why I tossed out parts of the TSR reasons, and came up with my own. IMC, the flow is actually a VERY large, VERY dense nebula. The spheres were made by greater gods to be indestructible, even by greater gods, to keep the nebula gasses out (sun + nebulas gas = BOOM). IMC, spelljammers generate that 1g gravity plane and have air, due to a side effect of spelljamming helms. Deactivate the helm, or try to do without one, and you had better have a pressurized ship and like zero-gravity... ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 04:28:34 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Thu, 11 Jan 1996, Chris Davies wrote: > NOW, however, after the War is over, and the various Immortals > all have egg on their faces (for my money, Thanatos set up the whole > thing ...), he wants to get the Shadow Elves the heck out of Aengmor, For my money, you-re right ;) Thanatos makes a WONDERFUL mastermind behind all the large-scale evils - and he'd love to make two factions of the self-proclaimed 'good' kill each other. And the massacres on a grand scale that the WoTI led to must have been especially pleasing for him. not to mention getting to kick out that upstart Hel..... That's also why I sincerely doubt the Master is a) a folllower of Loki - - he's not really interested in conquest, and b) Human in any sense of the word . What sort of idiot does it take to worship Death ? Hey, maybe he''s what hasppens when someone studies Nithian culture too closely ? ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:35:38 AST Subject: [Mystara] nooooo!!!!!!!![re: Shadow Elves] > From: Andrea Stadtfeld > That's true, but they fought against the humanoids and dwarves trying to > conquer Oenkmar. They could be quite a nice race, at least a neutral > interesting race. They're not everyday-Elves, and such as they can get > quite popular, if you take a look at Drizzt from FR. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I will die before I see anything like this in Mystara. The whole evil-race-but-everyone-you-meet-is-the-exception idea is bad, bad, bad. What's next, the spiders in the City of Stars start talking? Everyone gets 50% anti-magic? Aztlan comes back with breasts and drops the whole snake deal? You want drow, fine, but SE's are not drow - not now, not ever. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 16:37:15 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects At 13.31 11/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >>>Unfortunately I haven't got Saga of the Shadow Lord (and I think I'll never >>>find that her in Italy...sigh) but from the almanacs, WOTI and various >>>mention here and there, I think that Wendar is an elven-controlled kingdom >>>west of Heldann and north of Glantri with few humans. >> >>Same problems of getting old Mystara material in Italy? I know how it >>feels.:-) >> >>>Maybe in X## Saga of The Shadow Lord ? >> >>Maybe. Another item for my long list of wishes. > >Do you get Dragon magazine? If so, there is a dealer in the U.S. called >Zocchi Distributers. They usually have an ad in every issue for >Gamescience dice or Twerps RPG or similar stuff. They have tons of out of >print TSR goods. They probably have the items you are looking for. >I don't know what kind of problems you would have with sending them U.S. >currency, but it might be worth a try. > >P.S. I am not trying to advertise for them. I am just trying to help out >fellow gamers in desperate need. :-) > > Some months ago I bought X10, AC10 and another module from Zocchi, but it is rather expensive (mainly because of italian currency exchange value, maybe for the german lady it is cheaper...). However X11 wasn't in their catalog last time I saw it. In the city were I live there is a comics and RPG convention twice a year, so I hope to find something there. On the web you can download the Mail Order Hobby Shop backlist from http://users.aol.com/tsrinc/ It is a list of older material in stock at the MOHS, including older product, discontinued items, magazine back issues, and miniatures. However X11 isn't there too. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:31:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Classes/Races How abouta list of all T$R-created races and classes for ODND to see what is out there? I'm amazed at the # I can think of Cleric Druid Spec. Priests(Halav,Petra,Protius,Matera,Zargos,Thanatos, Ranivorous) Spec.Priests(Ixion,Pflarr,Valerias,Kagyar,Rathanos) Fighter Avenger Knight Palladin Griffon Rider Nithian specializes: Archer Runner Spearman Heavyman Charioter Thief Guardian Royal Seal Bearer Lockmaster Mage Montoth Symbolist(Nithian diabolist-type) ?(Other Nithian Mage) Mystic Elf Warrior Elf Dwarf Dwarf-Cleric Halfling Beastman Beastman shami/magi Shadow Elf Bruteman Bruteman shami/magi Hutaakan Hutaakan shamans/magi Kubitt Kubitt fighter/thief/mage/cleric Lizard Man LizMan shamaans/magi Krugel Orc KrOrc Shamans/magi Sea Gnt Sea Gnt shamans Tritons Sidhe Pixie Sprite Shark-kin Kna Kopru Mermen/Mermaids Aquatic Elf Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:39:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects > > On the other hand, if one of the players has his way, Ericall will > >secede from Alphatia ;) > > No problem. Ericall is a wimp.;-) As if- if you ever played the moduels in the M series(M2?) you'll realize how easy it would be for Ericall and Norworld to secede from wimpy, magic-bound Alphatia miles away > Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Glory and honor for the Tarastian chruch of Milenia! Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:42:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old modules (fwd) The mystara module list that Bruce posted on Nov 22 > > I just picked up a couple of the old OD&D modules from a used bookstore > > the other day, just to try and round out my collectio nof OD&D stuff. I > > have most of the basic modules, but I am still not quite sure of what > > else I need. Does anyone out there have a listing of all the old modules? > > Particularly the Companion and Masters level ones? Any help would be > > appreciated, thanks! > Those more knowledgeable can add more, but: > B1 Search for the Unknown > B2 Keep on the Borderlands > B3 Palace of the Silver Princess > B4 The Lost City > B5 Horror on The Hill > B6 Veiled Society B7 Rahasia B8 Journey to the Rock B9 Castle Caldwell & Beyond > B10 Night's Dark Terror B11 King's Festival B12 Queen's Harvest B1-9 In Search of Adventure CM1 Test of the Warlords CM2 Death's Ride CM3 Sabre River > CM4 Earthshaker CM5 Mystery of the Snow Pearls > CM6 Where Chaos Reigns CM7 Tree of Life > CM8 The Eternal Staircase CM9 Legacy of Blood > DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor > DA2 Temple of Frog > DA3 City of Gds > DA4 Duchy of Ten DDA1 Arena of Thyatis DDA2 Legions of Thyatis DDA3 Eye of Traldar DDA4 The Dymrak Dread HWA1 Nightwail HWA2 Nightrage HWA3 Nightstorm HWQ1 Milenian Sceptre > IM1 Immortal Storm > IM2 Wrath of Olympus IM3 Best of Intentions M1 Into the Maelstrom M2 Vengeance of Alphaks M3 Twighlight Calling M4 Five Coins for a Kingdom M5 Talons of Night > O1 The Gem and the Staff > O2 Blade of Vengeance(??) > X1 Isle of Dread > X2 Castle Amber > X3 Curse of Xanathon X4 Master of the Desert Nomads X5 Temple of Death > X6 Quagmire X7 War Rafts of Kron > X8 Drums on Fire Mountain X9 Savage Coast X10 Red Arrow, Black Shield (War Machine/Battlesystem) X11 Saga of the Shadow Lord X12 Skarda's Mirror X13 Crown of Ancient Glory > XL-1 Quest for the Heartstone ___________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:00:28 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old modules (fwd) > > > > I just picked up a couple of the old OD&D modules from a used bookstore > > > the other day, just to try and round out my collectio nof OD&D stuff. I > > > have most of the basic modules, but I am still not quite sure of what > > > else I need. Does anyone out there have a listing of all the old modules? > > > Particularly the Companion and Masters level ones? Any help would be > > > appreciated, thanks! > > Those more knowledgeable can add more, but: > > B1 Search for the Unknown > > B2 Keep on the Borderlands > > B3 Palace of the Silver Princess > > B4 The Lost City > > B5 Horror on The Hill > > B6 Veiled Society > B7 Rahasia > B8 Journey to the Rock > B9 Castle Caldwell & Beyond > > B10 Night's Dark Terror > B11 King's Festival > B12 Queen's Harvest > B1-9 In Search of Adventure BSOLO (Title forgotten; Ghosts of Lion Castle?) > > CM1 Test of the Warlords > CM2 Death's Ride > CM3 Sabre River > > CM4 Earthshaker > CM5 Mystery of the Snow Pearls > > CM6 Where Chaos Reigns > CM7 Tree of Life > > CM8 The Eternal Staircase > CM9 Legacy of Blood > > > DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor > > DA2 Temple of Frog > > DA3 City of Gds > > DA4 Duchy of Ten > > DDA1 Arena of Thyatis > DDA2 Legions of Thyatis > DDA3 Eye of Traldar > DDA4 The Dymrak Dread > > HWA1 Nightwail > HWA2 Nightrage > HWA3 Nightstorm > HWQ1 Milenian Sceptre > > > IM1 Immortal Storm > > IM2 Wrath of Olympus > IM3 Best of Intentions > > M1 Into the Maelstrom > M2 Vengeance of Alphaks > M3 Twighlight Calling > M4 Five Coins for a Kingdom > M5 Talons of Night > > > O1 The Gem and the Staff > > O2 Blade of Vengeance(??) > > > X1 Isle of Dread > > X2 Castle Amber > > X3 Curse of Xanathon > X4 Master of the Desert Nomads > X5 Temple of Death > > X6 Quagmire > X7 War Rafts of Kron > > X8 Drums on Fire Mountain > X9 Savage Coast > X10 Red Arrow, Black Shield (War Machine/Battlesystem) > X11 Saga of the Shadow Lord > X12 Skarda's Mirror > X13 Crown of Ancient Glory > > XL-1 Quest for the Heartstone XSOLO Lathan's Gold XS2 Thunderdelve Chris Davies (I really liked solo adventures ...) ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:05:39 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor (was: What size is Mystara) > > > Well, one certain piece of Blackmoor wound up under Glantri ... > > and the Immortals probably used parts of what was left of Vulcania to > > build that colony of Techno-Elves in the Hollow World (forget name). > Actually, that particular piece in Glantri isn't precisely > Blackmoorabilia; it's the engine core of the F.S.S. Beagle, which > crash-landed on Mystara while Blackmoor was only part of the Empire of > Thonia. See DA2, DA3, and WotI for more details.. Okay ... anyone know how far the Beagle was from the city? Obviously, far enough away that the Blackmoorans didn't notice the mushroom cloud when Benekander blew it ... but close enough that they could get to it fairly easily ... > You mean the Blacklore elves, right? Ayep. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:15:20 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara > > > > > > If the > > > > opening is at the north pole now - where was it when Blackmoor > > > > flourished ? > > Well, according the the HW boxes set, originally there were two much > > smaller openings to the HW in the then-current North and South Poles. > > Interesting thought : would the F.S.S Beagle have detected these > openings in their pre-planetfall survey ? If they did, odds are that they > sent probes, perhaps robots into there, followed by a manned scout. This > bunch of people would have been abandoned in the crash, since the Beagle > hadn't enough resources to mount a recue mission... Would that count as a > possible seed culture ? Welllll ... you could do that. For myself, I think the Beagle were a little too disoriented by the dimensional shift to send probes ... moreover, planets with holes at the poles might be common as grass where they came from ... > > > > Where did Blackmoor really go, since it supposedly ended up > > > > under the North Pole ? Where did Evergun go, since it was supposed to end > > > > up under the south pole - there's another hole there. > > I suppose blowing itself up doesn't count as going somewhere.. :) When > > they did go boom, the axis of the planet moved so that where Blackmoor > > was was the new North Pole, and Evergrun at the south. The Polar Openings > > were sticking off at about 25 degrees or so. > > Then the Immortals stepped in, sealed up the old holes, and dug new ones > > at the new poles - right overtop of Blackmoor and Vulcania! Who knows > > what they did with the excised pieces.. Muahaha.. er.. . > > Is this according to the boxed sets ? I dont remember seeing anything > like this in them - which is partly why I'm frustrated with the entire > concept ;) It's in the Hollow World set ... > On the other hand,this would involve making holes in teh world-shield - > didn't the boxed set state that the Immortals could do no such thing ? > Not to mention recreating the material in the previous holes - Although > they'd probably have a lot of spare parts from the 'new' holes, the > material would need to be 'welded' to the sides of the hole - and to have > a stable bond means to recreate the material filling the cap, and > recreating all the molecular-level links. If the Immortals could do that > - why were they so surprised and puzzled at finding the *material* of the > world shield ? It's a natural anti-magic substance, which is kind of rare. But once you've discovered it, it's fairly easy to synthesize. > > > > > > Why wasn't > > > > Blackmoor preserved, if that's the point of the Hollow World ? > > Well, it's kind of hard to preserve ionized gases.. Even Alphatia was > > still all there, just underwater, when they moved it to the HW. Besides, > > would You want to preserve them, when they'd likely just blow themselves > > up again? > Sure. But the Immortals involve the Sphere of Time - and when the PC's > (like in my campaign) have the option of visiting Blackmoor through the > Inn between the Worlds (DA1-4), I don't see why the Sphere of Time > Immortals coudn't step in and nab a percentage of the population a few > seconds before they were converted to volatiles. Hell, even a Wish from a > non-time Immortal would be able to nab a few and transport them -repeat > until you have enough people.... > One possibility is that the combination of magic and hypertechnology involved has basically blocked off the specific time of the explosion, even to the Immortals (there ARE things that are more powerful than they are, after all ...) Also, as the previous poster pointed out, the Immortals might not want to save this particular culture ... any culture that would drag itself AND the rest of the planet to possible destruction wouldn't be high on my list of things to save ... > Well, I don't use Spelljaming in my campaign because I find the whole > prmise of Crystal Spheres and the spelljamming ships totally ridiculous- I agree completely. > > Well, the Outer Planar idea/theory would account for it too - anf > frankly I just cant see the Immortals messing with the Prime Material so > much as the HW implies when there's perfectly good outer planes > available. Well, in OD&D (Mystara's true home, remember ...) the Prime Material is the only plane that is composed of all five spheres, thus allowing for really complex cultures that embrace a variety of philosophies -- like the Hollow World ... Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:19:18 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > > For my money, you-re right ;) Thanatos makes a WONDERFUL mastermind > behind all the large-scale evils - and he'd love to make two factions of > the self-proclaimed 'good' kill each other. And the massacres on a grand > scale that the WoTI led to must have been especially pleasing for him. > not to mention getting to kick out that upstart Hel..... Also sets up a possible servant in Glantri (Hello, Synn ... how's tricks), increases the power of a society he covertly supports (the Heldannic Knights), and weakens Asterius (what's happening in Thyatis AC 1012 can't be good for him). > That's also why I sincerely doubt the Master is a) a folllower of Loki > - he's not really interested in conquest, Who's not interested in conquest? The Master? or Loki? Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 13:27:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor and Hollow World (was: What size is Mystara) > Interesting thought : would the F.S.S Beagle have detected these > openings in their pre-planetfall survey ? If they did, odds are that they > sent probes, perhaps robots into there, followed by a manned scout. This > bunch of people would have been abandoned in the crash, since the Beagle > hadn't enough resources to mount a recue mission... Would that count as a > possible seed culture ? It's possible, but I think it's unlikely; They pretty much had to crash-land, since their drives didn't work properly to keep them moving. Besides, with the internal politics on the Beagle (A mutiny or two, locals stealing tech, etc.), they had little time to send probes before the captain decided to put everybody in suspended animation waiting for rescue. Of course, it's quite possible some of the exploring robots made it through the holes, and are now waiting for something to reactivate them... :) > > I suppose blowing itself up doesn't count as going somewhere.. :) When > > they did go boom, the axis of the planet moved so that where Blackmoor > > was was the new North Pole, and Evergrun at the south. The Polar Openings > > were sticking off at about 25 degrees or so. > > Then the Immortals stepped in, sealed up the old holes, and dug new ones > > at the new poles - right overtop of Blackmoor and Vulcania! Who knows > > what they did with the excised pieces.. Muahaha.. er.. . > Is this according to the boxed sets ? I dont remember seeing anything > like this in them - which is partly why I'm frustrated with the entire > concept ;) It's right in the DM's guide, in the front section. :) > On the other hand,this would involve making holes in teh world-shield - > didn't the boxed set state that the Immortals could do no such thing ? Not that I recall; as far as I remember, it just blocks all detections spells aimed at it. > Not to mention recreating the material in the previous holes - Although > they'd probably have a lot of spare parts from the 'new' holes, the > material would need to be 'welded' to the sides of the hole - and to have > a stable bond means to recreate the material filling the cap, and > recreating all the molecular-level links. If the Immortals could do that > - why were they so surprised and puzzled at finding the *material* of the > world shield ? Well, er... Ka the Preserver found it several thousand years before they did all the earth-moving, so they had lost of time to study it...? :) > > > > Why wasn't > > > > Blackmoor preserved, if that's the point of the Hollow World ? > > Well, it's kind of hard to preserve ionized gases.. Even Alphatia was > > still all there, just underwater, when they moved it to the HW. Besides, > > would You want to preserve them, when they'd likely just blow themselves > > up again? > Sure. But the Immortals involve the Sphere of Time - and when the PC's > (like in my campaign) have the option of visiting Blackmoor through the > Inn between the Worlds (DA1-4), I don't see why the Sphere of Time > Immortals coudn't step in and nab a percentage of the population a few > seconds before they were converted to volatiles. Hell, even a Wish from a > non-time Immortal would be able to nab a few and transport them -repeat > until you have enough people.... Here's an idea.. in the gold Immortals boxed set, they mention a planet between Mars-analogue and Jupiter-analogue, called Damocles. It's supposed to blow up in the near future... I wonder what's going to cause that? Say, that transplanted Blackmoor colony? :) (Hm.. wonder if that's where the Master's meteor came from... >:) ) > > Here's an idea.. the World Shield is made of a really-dense, but still > > mostly liquid (permitting volcanoes) molten material never found in our > > own universe? We don't have to worry overmuch about gravity, as if > > Spelljamming ships can generate 1g, so can something with the surface > > area of a planet. :) > Well, I don't use Spelljaming in my campaign because I find the whole > prmise of Crystal Spheres and the spelljamming ships totally ridiculous- > and as for the liquid idea.. well, then youd either need a Force Field > supporting the Shield (and what about the ends with the hole ?) or watch > the whole thing collapse as it seeps centerwards and pools in the middle > of the HWR - right on top of the planar gate. Why ? Well, if the liquid > 'exerts' 1G in all directions, and has no structural rigidity ( as > liquid implies) the center vector for the force will be in the middle of > the sphere defined by the World Shield - and the liquid would seep > inwards from all sides at 1G acceleration... And elves and unicorns and Immortals aren't silly? :) Lemme see.. how about: The World-shield material itself is unaffected by gravity, being slightly anchored in the ethereal/astral, and.. hm. Can somebody who knows physics better than me help out here? :) > For my part, I like the idea David 'Azure' presented earlier, about > the 'openings ' to the hollow world being Gates to my outer-planar > setting for it. This would make the substance mortals see as the > World-Shield be the material of the walls in the Wormhole. This is also perfectly acceptable. BTW, ever consider that the halflings running the show HW might also be true, then? :) If you've got one subplane down there, why not two? :) > > BTW, most of the magic-affecting stuff is from the Spell of Preservation > > cast on the HW, not the World Shield itself. > Well, the Outer Planar idea/theory would account for it too - anf > frankly I just cant see the Immortals messing with the Prime Material so > much as the HW implies when there's perfectly good outer planes > available. Why not? The HW came nearly-ready made, just some minor retouching needed.. :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:59:13 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Timeline > > I've already started on both items; I posted what I'd already written out > in full. Soon as I finish CoM and RS, I'll email it upon request (or post > it to the list, if more than two people ask for it. :) ). > Please consider this yet another request. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 12:16:54 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] nooooo!!!!!!!![re: Shadow Elves] > > > That's true, but they fought against the humanoids and dwarves trying to > > conquer Oenkmar. They could be quite a nice race, at least a neutral > > interesting race. They're not everyday-Elves, and such as they can get > > quite popular, if you take a look at Drizzt from FR. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > I will die before I see anything like this in Mystara. The whole > evil-race-but-everyone-you-meet-is-the-exception idea is bad, bad, > bad. What's next, the spiders in the City of Stars start talking? > Everyone gets 50% anti-magic? Aztlan comes back with breasts and > drops the whole snake deal? You want drow, fine, but SE's are not > drow - not now, not ever. > Calm down. Nobody ever said that the Shadow Elves should turn into vanilla Dark Elves. What was said was that they can become extremely popular, even if they are mean and nasty. Unlike Dark Elves, Shadow Elves have a whole slew of good reasons to be Mean and Nasty ... and Mystara already has an evil spider-queen ... or rather had ... Talons of the Night took place in 1002 AC, I think. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #34 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #35 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Saturday, 13 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 035 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Daniel Boese Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:13:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Classes/Races > How abouta list of all T$R-created races and classes for ODND to see what > is out there? Here's off the top of my head: Human: Cleric (Druid, Spec. Priests of any particular Immortal) Fighter (Avenger, Knight, Paladin, Griffon Rider, Archer, Runner, Spearman, Heavyman, Charioter) Thief (Guardian, Royal Seal Bearer, Lockmaster, Rake) Magic-User (Montoth, Mage-Scribe, Templar) Mystic subclasses: lycanthrope (bat, bear, boar, fox, rat, seal, shark, tiger, wolf, hog), Darokin merchant, Minroth merchant Elf: Treekeeper Warrior Elf Shadow-Elf Shaman Aquatic Dwarf: Dwarf-Cleric Halfling: Master Beastman, Brute-Man, Hutaakans, Krugel Orcs, Malpheggi Lizard Man, Centaurs, Fauns, Treants, Wood Imps, Faenare, Gnome, Harpy, Pegataur, Kna, Kopru, Merrow, Nixie, Sea Giant, Shark-kin, Gobin, Hobgoblin, Bugbear, Kobold, Orc, Ogre, Troll Normal, Shaman, Wokani, Shaman/Wokani Triton (Cleric, Mage, Cleric/Mage) Dryads Nagpa Hsaio Gremlin Sphinx (Mage, Cleric) Tabi Kubitt Fighter, Thief, Rake, Magic-User, Cleric Brownie, Leprechaun, Pixie, Sprite, Pooka, Sidhe, Woodrake - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:30:43 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] nooooo!!!!!!!![re: Shadow Elves] > Calm down. > Nobody ever said that the Shadow Elves should turn into vanilla > Dark Elves. What was said was that they can become extremely popular, > even if they are mean and nasty. Unlike Dark Elves, Shadow Elves have a > whole slew of good reasons to be Mean and Nasty ... and Mystara already > has an evil spider-queen ... or rather had ... Talons of the Night took > place in 1002 AC, I think. Sorry, I overeacted to the post when I noticed that I was 15 min late for class. My Anti-Drow prejudice showed through, didn't it? Again, sorry for the !!!!s. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:40:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Your Friendly Administrator Gang, First, I want to apologize. I have been extremely busy over break, much of my time being spent to insure I get to go back to school. Because of this I have not been able to take care of a few administrative problems, This will change. Part of the problem is the site I run this from, Illuminati Online (a.k.a Steve Jackson Games). During the day, from 10 to 10, it is unbearable slow when accessing with telnet. So, I have to do a lot of this kind of stuff at night. Hopefully I will be able to get some stuff straightened out, including getting stuff to people who "ordered" from the index. And getting people properly subscribed. By tonight there will be a few people kicked off this list becasue their addresses are causing problems. There are too many for me to send this notice individually. So, if you find yourself unexpectedly booted, just resubscribe. BTW, I don't get to go back to school, so I should have a bunch of free time for a while. P.S. Go see 12 Monkeys. The best movie I have seen in some time. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 14:42:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > > Why wasn't > > Blackmoor preserved, if that's the point of the Hollow World ? Well, it's kind of hard to preserve ionized gases.. Even Alphatia was still all there, just underwater, when they moved it to the HW. Besides, would You want to preserve them, when they'd likely just blow themselves up again? Unless I'm mistaken, doesn't the HW box leave huge areas to fill in as you see fit? Dropping in Blackmoor is no big deal... Shelby ------------------------------ From: Berg Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 10:15:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor (was: What size is Mystara) Well, if the Beagle landed in present-day Glantri... Blackmoor is, as far as I can tell from the maps, in Sweden or Norway... Glantri seems to be fairly close to Alabama or Wyoming (maps are not very precise). I doubt people in Blackmoor would even have felt the impact through the ground. ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 21:18:15 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline stuff At 19.53 11/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >If anybody out there wants to comb through their 40 lbs. of Mystara books >and find all those little details that tend to escape notice, you're >welcome to help me. :) I'm only missing some of the modules and Really >early works, and would appreciate info on them as well. > BTW, once I put the Timeline into satisfactory shape (probably adding >details from the Almanacs), anybody want to help me with a Geography? How >about a Personalities List? Or maybe... ;) > >P.S.: I understand in some of the CM modules they presented a skymap.. >any descriptions of it? Or of the planetary system (other than what's in >the gold-box Immortals set)? > >-- >Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca > I'm interested in helping you with Mystara geography. We could extract statistics for the various countryes from PWAs and add something for the Savage Coast from RS or old Dragon magazines. Don't you think something about the armies of the world (as in PWA #2 and #3) can be useful. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Berg Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:04:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Classes/Races Haven't you left out Phanaton? :) *snicker* ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 18:42:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Beagle (was: Blackmoor) > Well, if the Beagle landed in present-day Glantri... I suppose this is what I get for assuming everybody else has spent hundreds of dollars on all the Mystara supplements and wasting dozens of hours reading all of them.. :) (No offense intended.) - --History Lecture Mode on: The Beagle landed a few hundred miles south of Blackmoor. After some internal squabbling, everybody was put into suspended animation (except for certain people waking up every so often for routine maintenance). One Beaglite sold out, stripping the ship and selling the tech to the natives. Unfortunately, part of that tech was a crucial stabilizing element of the ship's engine... *Boom* The ship's entirely vaporized except the engine core, which sank a few hundred feet into the earth. Some time later, an Old One discovered the engines, tinkered with them to allow them to create Immortals, and moved them to where they are now. - --Lecture mode off. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 23:11:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Timeline - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Friday, 12-Jan-96 04:18 AM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Timeline >>> Wow ! Mystara timeline is really a great work. >>> We can add to the Timeline events described in Champions of Mystara about > The Great Waste, Sind, Graakhalia, Ulimwengu and Yavdlom. > Then there is something about the Savage Coast and the Savage Baronies in > Red Steel. > If you want I can do all the work, but it will take some time (weeks ??). > >I've already started on both items; I posted what I'd already written out >in full. Soon as I finish CoM and RS, I'll email it upon request (or post >it to the list, if more than two people ask for it. :) ). > >-- >Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca Then by my count, I will also ask for it, clinching the deal! Although I have a request: I would like to see events from the Almanacs, and AD&D supplements, clearly identified or separate from the chronology of the Gazetteer-era. I prefer for my campaign to remain uninfluenced by those supplements...Does anyone agree with my feelings on this? Daniel, would you mind granting my request? Thanks, Shelby ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 02:01:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Timeline > >>> We can add to the Timeline events described in Champions of Mystara > about > > The Great Waste, Sind, Graakhalia, Ulimwengu and Yavdlom. > > Then there is something about the Savage Coast and the Savage Baronies in > > Red Steel. > >I've already started on both items; I posted what I'd already written out > >in full. Soon as I finish CoM and RS, I'll email it upon request (or post > >it to the list, if more than two people ask for it. :) ). > Then by my count, I will also ask for it, clinching the deal! > Although I have a request: I would like to see events from the Almanacs, and > AD&D supplements, clearly identified or separate from the chronology of the > Gazetteer-era. I prefer for my campaign to remain uninfluenced by those > supplements...Does anyone agree with my feelings on this? Daniel, would you > mind granting my request? Well, simply, anything after 1010 AC is from the Almanacs, anything before then (after 1000 AC) is from WotI or CoM or such, so it won't be hard for you to separate them. :) As for the AD&D supplements.. I assume you mean Red Steel? I can add something like (RS) to the end of any entry for that area, if you want.. PS: I'm through WotI and RS (except now I'm going to mark RS), and have a touch more to do in Champs. of Myst. and flipping through Josh's Almanac. Version 1.0 of the timeline was about 65K, and 1.1 is up to 109K... Just a small increase. :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 02:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor (was: What size is Mystara) Berg wrote: > Glantri seems to be fairly close to Alabama No wonder!! That explains the inbreeding and backward ethics!!! ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 09:58:13 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Timeline - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Daniel, Thanks for the clarification. I didn't have the dates signifiying when events in various products begin. As for pegging appropriate entries with 'RS,' I am very grateful for the extra effort. Am I the only list-member who doesn't want to have his campaign's timeline follow the 'future history' that extends beyond the Gazetteer era? I enjoy the setting as written. I'd like to let my players help determine where things go. I'd like to preserve aspects that I personally enjoy. And I don't like the trend of marketing products telling you 'what happens next.' To me that's foreign to the spirit of the game. And such changes made future products that I might otherwise have purchased, 'unpalatable' at least. I can see an occasional 'jumpstart' to revive interest in a campaign world; a supplement detailing that event would be rather non-intrusive. Probably such could be designed so as not to impact on much of the future of the world; could be relatively localised, and easily ignored by DMs and future publications. And such a thing should only be released once every few years. But these sweeping changes to an entire known world, released on a regular basis, seem motivated by pure greed on the publishers' part. Of course, this is just one of many ploys. As a recent usenet post pointed out, wouldn't it be nice to see companies publish _modules_ again? When I heard about the first 'almanac,' I really expected an atlas/encyclopedia, one that would be relatively timeless in its utility (I know, wishful thinking - sorry). I was disappointed when I saw that it reflected the 'changes' I was 'supposed' to make in my Mystara as a result of WOTI, which I didn't want to use. So I didn't buy it. I just wanted to explain the thoughts behind my request, as well as to solicit some response. Of course, all of the above comments are strictly IMHO. Anyone agree with me? Shelby ------------------------------ From: Jason Zavoda Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 11:14:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline On Sat, 13 Jan 1996, Shelby Michlin wrote: > -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > > > Am I the only list-member who doesn't want to have his campaign's timeline > follow the 'future history' that extends beyond the Gazetteer era? > > I enjoy the setting as written. I'd like to let my players help determine > where things go. I'd like to preserve aspects that I personally enjoy. And I > don't like the trend of marketing products telling you 'what happens next.' > To me that's foreign to the spirit of the game. And such changes made future > products that I might otherwise have purchased, 'unpalatable' at least. > I couldn't agree with you more. I just posted an article on rgfd the other day because of what I have been reading on the Mystara list dealing with the WotI and the Invasion of the shadow elves. My idea is this. When TSR releases a gameworld they should set aside areas not covered in the intial release for either a DMs development or future releases from TSR. The could cover a core area as they did in GAZ 1 leave areas within to be developed by the DM and outline areas where future modules and supplements will occur. On a larger scale entire nations can be left permanantly open for a DM to develop. I realize that to some extent TSR has tried to do this and any DM can choose to tailor his or her campaign any way they like, but I have always enjoyed following the official releases most of the time and I would enjoy it even more if I knew that they would not greatly conflict with the campaign that I am developing. The other idea that I had relating even more to the problem of "what happens next" releases from TSR which are guranteed to hash any long term plans a DM may have for any gameworld, is to set the official releases in certain time frames. Start the world of Mystara at timeline X. All supplements such as the Gaz are in year X, modules if they ever start doing them again, can be X, X+1 month,X+2,3,4 even building to some great climax which changes the face of the world. Then TSR can release Mystara timeline Y, publish supplements updating the world, but at the same time keep putting out modules and supplements for timeline X as well. The actual difference between the two timelines can be very short or seperated by millenia. All they have to do is detail a world in one era at a time rather than try to make the world age with all their future products. In all of the TSR worlds there have been great upheavals and also tales of a glorius past, well maybe not in Greyhawk, but nothing keeps TSR from detailing those settings as they do the current ones except a desire to do so. Well for Mystara I see several eras which could be detailed. The historic past, the pre war and WotI world and the post Woti world. Each can, and I am sure, will be fleshed out in great detail by DMs, but also alternate Mystaras can be worked out, a future history without the WotI, a Nithian empire which never collapsed. A blackmoor which never blew up, etc. I would love to see TSR put out something like this but even if TSR doesn't I know that I will work on it. Also I believe that most DMs will do at minimum a little tinkering with any release to fit them in their campaign but when you release a product that sinks an entire continent then you've got problems tinkering it into your campaign. Jason Zavoda ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 11:46:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timelines (was: Timeline) > I enjoy the setting as written. I'd like to let my players help determine > where things go. I'd like to preserve aspects that I personally enjoy. And I > don't like the trend of marketing products telling you 'what happens next.' > To me that's foreign to the spirit of the game. And such changes made future > products that I might otherwise have purchased, 'unpalatable' at least. > I can see an occasional 'jumpstart' to revive interest in a campaign world; > a supplement detailing that event would be rather non-intrusive. Well, from what I understand of the other settings (Greyhawk, Realms, etc.), they've done exactly the same thing. After all, how exciting is a campaign world that never changes? The Avatar series, Dragon Wars (DL), and so on all are great background for campaigning, IMHO. WotI, too. > As a recent usenet post pointed out, wouldn't it > be nice to see companies publish _modules_ again? I have to agree with you here. :) > When I heard about the first 'almanac,' I really expected an > atlas/encyclopedia, one that would be relatively timeless in its utility (I > know, wishful thinking - sorry). I was disappointed when I saw that it > reflected the 'changes' I was 'supposed' to make in my Mystara as a result > of WOTI, which I didn't want to use. So I didn't buy it. Well.. is it any different than, say, Post-Dragon Wars Krynn vs. Pre-DW? It's the published timeline, with all their products linking into it (WotI, CoM, PC4:NightHowlers, RS, the recent big-box AD&D Karameikos and Glantri sets and modules, the Hollow World modules, the Almanacs). Great, sweeping changes are a genre tradition, and make great background stories. Jason Zavoda mentioned detailing alternate timelines. This is something I'd Love to see (and/or make myself). The "quasi-official" Timeline I'm working on right now is a good starting point :), and the Chronomancer supplement would also be handy. I'm already thinking about the oft-mentioned "No Nucleus of the Spheres/Blackmoor doesn't blow up" timeline.. any suggestions? - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 18:57:42 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Classes/Races At 15.04 12/01/96 -0800, you wrote: > Haven't you left out Phanaton? :) > > *snicker* > Yes, as well as Lupins, Rakastas, Tortles, Araneas and the various strange races of the Savage Coast. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Jason Zavoda Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:13:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timelines (was: Timeline) On Sat, 13 Jan 1996, Daniel Boese wrote: > > When I heard about the first 'almanac,' I really expected an > > atlas/encyclopedia, one that would be relatively timeless in its utility (I > > know, wishful thinking - sorry). I was disappointed when I saw that it > > reflected the 'changes' I was 'supposed' to make in my Mystara as a result > > of WOTI, which I didn't want to use. So I didn't buy it. > Well.. is it any different than, say, Post-Dragon Wars Krynn vs. Pre-DW? > It's the published timeline, with all their products linking into it > (WotI, CoM, PC4:NightHowlers, RS, the recent big-box AD&D Karameikos and > Glantri sets and modules, the Hollow World modules, the Almanacs). Great, > sweeping changes are a genre tradition, and make great background > stories. > > Jason Zavoda mentioned detailing alternate timelines. This is something > I'd Love to see (and/or make myself). The "quasi-official" Timeline I'm > working on right now is a good starting point :), and the Chronomancer > supplement would also be handy. I'm already thinking about the > oft-mentioned "No Nucleus of the Spheres/Blackmoor doesn't blow up" > timeline.. any suggestions? > > -- > Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca > I like the idea of different eras in any gameworld, so I wasn't really upset with WotI or any of the sweeping changes that TSR has done on their different game worlds.What gets me upset is that they abandon the previous era. Take Mystara as an example, TSR has done a very good job of fleshing out pre WotI Mystara and I would like to see published modules that take place in that timeline. I do not mind seeing the current history of Mystara taking place, i'm not overly fond of it either but why not do both. I bet they will if enough interest is shown in doing so. And even if TSR does nothing in that timeline individual DMs can put together campaigns for that era. Mystara with the DA series has already been split into two distinct playable timelines, so besides the Chronomancer supplement there is already a working time travel mechanism in the Mystara game world. Also the Hollow world concept can be altered to simply have camapigns in those actual historic settings that they describe and without the compulsions and hindrances that are put upon them by the immortals to resist cultural change. I am a big fan of "what ifs" so anyone who wants to work out a Mystara that didn't have a WotI i'd be happy to participate. As for the world of Mystara without a blackmoor blowup , I would like to hear what people would feel might happen. Jason Zavoda ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:15:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 1/8 Chronomancy was known to the wizards of Alphatia, but all Alphatian chronomancers were destroyed by an unknown Immortal after they attempted to make contact with the long-lost techno-magical empire of Blackmoor. One investigator of this disaster believes the Immortals Rafiel and possibly Rad (a.k.a. Etienne d'Amberville) are defending a pre-historic secret somehow connected with the Radiance of Glantri. Rumors sometimes pass through Glantri that a local wizard has rediscovered the lost secrets of chronomancy, but this has never been proven. Unobtrusive chronomancers have considerable freedom; furthermore, they might gain the cautious notice of Immortals from Energy or Time (particularly Ixion), who might be bribed at tremendous expense to reveal other secrets of chronomancy or Mystaran history. Immortals of Time carefully shunt chronomancers "around" critical events in history, so that all attempts to reach those times are missed by days, months, or years. Time travelers perceived as dangerously hostile to Mystaran history are located and destroyed without ceremony or delay. 6000 BC: There is no true civilization in the Outer World. Humans are tribal hunter-gatherers, living mostly in plains and light forests. Dwarves are barbaric mountain and foothill dwellers, mostly goatherds. Elves are sheltered, protected and nurtured by the forest-spirits they worship; they do not need to work or suffer. There are no monstrous humanoids on the world to threaten the demihumans. 5000 BC: The childhood of the elves is over; the forest spirits stop sheltering them, forcing them to leave paradise and to seek their own futures. The first great elf civilization, Evergrun, develops on the southern continent in areas now under the southern icecap. Far across the galaxy, on another world, a race of pale-skinned humans called the Alphatians begin to rise to preeminence and to study mighty magics. 4500 BC: Beastmen - reincarnated souls of evil beings - appear in the Borean Valley, a frozen land north of Blackmoor. These beastmen are wild, chaotic creatures that do not breed true; whelps may have some or none of the traits of their parents, may be of different size and appearance. This is all brought about by the magic of Hel, an Immortal of the sphere of Entropy, who wants to introduce more confusion, dismay, and death into the world. 4000 BC: The human Blackmoor civilization begins a meteoric rise due to its great success in developing powerful sciences and technologies. It conquers and assimilates all surrounding human tribes and quickly grows very powerful. Another human civilization, the Oltecs, begins a more stately rise toward civilization in lands far to the south of Blackmoor. Protected by deep forests and sheltering hills, they do not have any communication with Blackmoor. On the Alphatians' world, the Alphatians defeat the Cypris civilization... and begin to be assimilated by it. 3850 BC: A group of warlike, flatland tribes are colonized by the Oltecs. These tribes fiercely cling to their distinct heritage in spite of the Oltec conquerors. 3500 BC: The Blackmoor civilization is flourishing. It conducts trade and intermittent war with the southern elves, at the other end of the world. Four clans of elves colonize in the region near Blackmoor. Both the southern and the colonial elves embrace Blackmoor's technology. Blackmoor priests demand the extermination of the "unnatural" beastmen in the Borean Valley, and promote holy wars to hunt down and destroy those creatures. Following a failed military coup, a rift occurs in the Oltec civilization; the more aggressive Azcan tribes declare their independence and begin to wage war on the Oltecs. According to modern Azcan histories, the hated former masters were overthrown and enslaved. In fact, the Oltecs and Azcans exist side by side for almost five centuries, alternating war and commerce, until outside forces literally destroy the world they know. The widespread Neathar race is beginning to undergo development; the language in individual areas changes rapidly into very different dialects, and the independent Neathar tribes no longer recognize a kinship or a common origin among themselves. On the Alphatians' world, the Alphatian/Cypris civilization uses its magical knowledge to begin colonization and conquest of nearby planets and exploration of the elemental planes. 3400 BC: To avoid the ongoing war in their homeland, some Oltecs migrate to the Savage Coast, settling the eastern and central shores. Manscorpions and tortles already live along the central coast, and aranea and wallara civilizations flourish on the western end. (RS) 3200 BC: The Blackmoor crusades drive the Beastmen farther north, into the land called Hyperborea; they adapt to the colder climate and survive. 3100 BC: Aquarendi elves seek the guardianship of Manwara, an Immortal of the Sea, and enter the warm waters to begin a new life. 3000 BC: Some Blackmoor devices explode, shifting the axis of the Known World in an event later called the Great Rain of Fire or the Planetshift. Blackmoor becomes the north pole and its civilization disappears. The elven civilization becomes the south pole; the elves are able to migrate to the area called Grunland (which now begins centuries of volcanic upheaval that lead to its being renamed Vulcania). These southern-continent elves, though suffering hardship, are not in immediate danger of extinction and so none are taken to the Hollow World. Melting ice caps raise ocean level by several hundred feet. Lowland marshes and coastal plains along the southern edge of the northern continent are flooded. Survivors of the elven colony near Blackmoor flee to the newly-formed Broken Lands; they burrow deep into the ground to survive the aftereffects of the Great Rain of Fire. These are the ancestors of the Shadow Elves. Two races of humans come to the land that will later be called the Minaean Coast. From the east comes Tangor Man, driven from his home by climatic changes brought on by the Great Rain of Fire. From across the waters to the west comes Oltec Man on one of his great colonizing migrations. The ice caps recede from the southern edge of the continent of Brun. Spirits are drawn in to merge with the world. One of the most dangerous Blackmoor devices is left untouched in the Broken Lands. The Great Rain of Fire is seen by Azcans and Oltecs alike as an important part of their mysticism: the End of the Fifth Sun. The Immortals magically transplant large numbers of these peoples to the Hollow World to save them. The shark-kin, after spending thousands of years on the land, return to the sea. On the Alphatians' world, Alphatian aggression is gradually supplanted by Cypric self-absorption; other-planetary conquests and colonies are left to fend for themselves as Alphatian study of magic turns inward. 3000 - 2500 BC: Formerly arctic areas of the Known World, including most of the lands covered in the Gazetteer series, slowly become habitable as the ice recedes from former polar regions. 2900 BC: The Immortal named Garal Glitterlode created the gnomish race, planting colonies of them in the land that would later become Rockhome and the mountains of the northern continent. 2800 BC: New elven nation on the southern continent land of Vulcania divides on magic vs. technology. A separatist branch of the southern elves, led by Ilsundal the Wise, decides to abandon Blackmoor technology and return to the nature-oriented magic of their ancestors. They begin a long migration northward in the hope of finding the lost colony of elves that had settled near Blackmoor. Azcans and Oltecs on the outer world have practically vanished, dispersed across the world and culturally transformed in every case. A small number of survivors take refuge in the caves of a mighty plateau. These are the ancestors of the modern Atruaghin Clan. This plateau, although impressive, is nowhere near as grand as the one that now stands in the lands north of the Sea of Dread. They retain a dim memory, retold and altered into myth and folklore, of Azcan and Oltec glory and strife. They also remember the mysterious disappearance of many kin. 2500 BC: Gnomes and dwarves enter the Northern Reaches region and settle in its hills and mountains as the continental ice sheets recede. The Taymora humans settle the southern shores of the northern continent. Climatic changes due to the axial shift have rendered the lands of Blackmoor and the elves uninhabitable. In Vulcania, the elvish civilization is losing its battle with the elements; it has forgotten most of its magic and its Blackmoor technology is failing. A second separatist group of southern elves begins its long march northward. 2400 BC: The land that was Hyborea is now warming up; the Beastmen migrate to the area that was once Blackmoor, which is now the northern pole, and thrive there. They are beginning to breed true, in recognizable species. The tribes gather at Urzud. A great volcanic explosion occurs in Vulcania, destroying the remnants of the southern elvish civilization. A human culture, the Antalian tribes (descendants of the Neathar) are flourishing in the area later to be called Norwold. They are a blond, warlike culture with bronze weapons and armor. 2300 BC: Ilsundal's elves have crossed the Strait of Izonda to the Immortal's Arm, then headed east along the Savage Coast. Another group took another route through the Adakkian Sound, where they rejoined Ilsundal's band and continued with them. Elves arrive in and settle the eastern and central Savage Coast. They live alongside, but not among, Oltecs. (RS) The Sheyallia clan turns south, onto the Serpent Peninsula, and settle in the forest. The Meditor and Verdier clans, disliking the increasingly rainy and hot climate, sail east in search of better lands. 2200 BC: Some elves break off from Ilsundal's migration and eventually find their way to the frozen valleys of Glantri, where they settle. A few survivors from the second migration from Vulcania also reach Glantri and settle among their cousins. Some Tanagoro colonists from halfway around the world reach the Serpent Peninsula and decide they like they abundant rain forests. However, the elves regard their slash-and-burn agriculture with horror. Eventually, they work out a compromise: the Tanagoros keep to the coastlines and forest fringes, while the elves withdraw deeper into the forest. 2100 BC: Meditor and Verdier elf clans leave Ilsundal's northward migrations and settle in southern Traldar lands (Karameikos). The main force of Ilsundal's migration reaches the Sylvan Realm, far to the west of lands such as Karameikos and Thyatis. 2000 BC: The Beastmen have now evolved into the modern species of orcs, goblins, ogres, giants, and trolls. The Ethengars arrive on the fertile lands of the Steppes. First human settlements in the coastal and island lowlands of the Northern Reaches. Elven and human mages settle in the forests of the western Savage Coast, supplanting aranea; they name their land Herath. Enduks are created on the Orc's head Peninsula and begin building the civilization of Nimmur. (RS) 2000 - 1750 BC: An agricultural settlement flourishes along the River Nithia. It swiftly becomes the seat of a fast-growing culture. Tribal humans, swarthy descendants of Oltec and Neathar tribes, also settle in the coastal and island lowlands of the Northern Reaches, in the Ethengar Steppes. Antalian colonists migrate southward into the lands later to be called the Northern Reaches. 1900 BC: On the great continent to the east of Alphatia and Bellissaria, a nomadic, cavalry-based race of warriors grows strong. These are the Jennites, copper-skinned descendants of an Oltec expeditionary party; their language and customs have evolved far away from their Oltec origins. 1800 BC: The dwarfish race on the Known World is slowly, inevitably dying out. The Immortal called Kagyar the Artisan takes all remaining dwarves in the Known World. Half he transplants to the Hollow World, and half he reshapes into a new dwarven race. Now there are no remnants of the original dwarven race on the outer world. Some of the "new dwarves" are returned to the Northern Reaches, where the largest dwarf colonies had been, and eventually become the Modrigswerg clans; others are planted in the Rockhome region. Both groups are given false memories and believe that the Modrigswerg dwarves also originally lived in the Rockhome lands. In the Sylvan Realm, Ilsundal creates the first elvish Tree of Life and becomes an Immortal. The Steel Wars divide the humanoid tribes. Plague, famine, and massacres ravage Urzud, and the population dwindles. 1750 BC: The earthquakes that rock the Sea of Dread drastically change the Serpent Peninsula. The Tanagoro culture collapses into warring tribes. They tear the original Atruaghin Plateau from the mainland, forming the Ierendi islands. Copper-skinned people fleeing the earthquakes the destroyed the original Atruaghin Plateau join light-skinned Urduk tribesmen, descendants of the Neathar tribesmen, in the Great Waste. 1750 - 1500 BC: The human tribes along the River Nithia progress from Bronze Age to Iron Age metals technology. A jackal-headed creature named Pflarr achieves Immortality. 1725 BC: King Loark of the humanoids organizes an army of humanoids known as the Great Horde. They migrate southeastward into the lands of men, ravaging as they go, continuing Loark's Quest for a Blue Knife. Great waves of hill goblins, trolls, and giants especially begin moving southward into areas now occupied by human settlers. 1722 BC: The Great Horde of King Loark ravages Norwold and learns Norse culture, sending the Antalian culture there into a dark age; the Immortals Odin and Thor send intact communities of Antalians into the Hollow World. (The descendants of the outer-world Antalians eventually become the men of the Heldann Freeholds.) 1720 BC: Akilla-Khan conquers the southern steppes of Ethengar. 1711 BC: Great Horde reaches pre-khanate Ethengar. Akilla-Khan allies with King Loark against the Ethengarian nomads. 1710 BC: The Great Horde of King Loark invades the Ethengar Steppes and enslaves the primitive Ethengars. King Loark's horde is joined by Akilla-Khan's humanoid horde. Together they ravage the steppes. 1709 BC: Akilla-Khan betrays King Loark in exchange for lands west of the Dol-Anur. The Great Horde is defeated at the Battle of Chongor, in ancient Ethengar. King Loark's Great Horde splinters; the trolls head east, the goblins south, and the rest of the Great Horde is driven out of the steppes into the Broken Lands and settles there. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #35 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #36 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Saturday, 13 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 036 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Daniel Boese Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:18:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 2/8 1700 BC: The elves of Glantri discover, in the Broken Lands, a strange artifact from the lost Blackmoor civilization. They tinker with it, and the artifact explodes cataclysmically, sending impenetrable clouds into the sky (which last for years), and spreading a strange rotting plague among the surviving elves - those who were far enough away to survive. The elves shelter themselves in the deepest caves of Glantri. They find an incredible series of caverns there and begin a years-long migration. The traveling tribes are separated from one another. These are the ancestors of the Hollow World's Gentle Folk, Icevale Elves, and the Schattenalfen. A fourth group, led by an elf named Atziann, had no survivors save that king. Some emerge, years later, hundreds of miles south, past the Broken lands. Some perish. The catastrophe forms the Land of the Black Sand in the Ethengar Steppes. Elsewhere, a series of great volcanic eruptions and earthquakes split several large land masses away from what is now the Five Shires and Atruaghin Clans area; aboriginal (Neathar-descended) peoples called the Makai and lizardmen called Malpheggi are stranded on the new islands. The Taymora civilization is destroyed. The plateau under which the surviving Azcans have been living largely collapses, killing many of them and leaving the survivors in a shattered, hostile land. Meditor elves are stranded on the newly formed Minrothad Isles. The local cataclysm rakes the Broken Lands and buries the Great Horde. King Loark dies, and his horde breaks apart. Giants, trolls, and gnolls are driven south into the Northern Reaches in successive waves of migration. Goblinoids settle in the Yazak Steppes. (RS) 1691 BC: Baka betrays Akilla-Khan and drives his humanoids into the Broken Lands. 1690 BC: Akilla-Khan builds a fortress in the Broken Lands, and starts raiding Glantri and Ethengar borders. 1688 BC: Akilla-Khan retires from the world and becomes an Immortal, He takes the name of Yagrai. Unaware of the truth, Ethengarians rejoice. Baka declared Khan of all Ethengars. 1681 BC: Baka Khan is poisoned. The Ethengars war over his successor. The War of Succession starts. 1680 BC: Land masses split further, forming 10 islands south of the Five Shires. Verdier elves build ships and join their cousins, the Meditor clan, in the Sea of Dread. 1675 BC: Tahkati Stormtamer unites the tribes that are now known as the Children of the Horse and leads them in conquest of the other tribes that now make up the Atruaghin Clans. Eventually, he becomes an Immortal. 1650 BC: Atziann, king and sole survivor of a clan of Glantri elves who had been driven underground, comes across the Hollow World Azcans, emerging near Chitlacan. Fascinated by these people, he spends several years among them (in disguise) and studying their ways before leaving to pursue his dream of Immortality. 1600 BC: Tensions erupt between the two largest Jennite hordes: One horde, the more traditional of the two, has woman warriors, while the other has virtually enslaved its women. The Immortal Tarastia enjoins the more traditional horde to conquer the other, but the resulting holy war all but destroys Jennite civilization. (By the time the Alphatians reach the Known World, six centuries later, the outer-world Jennites have regressed to stone-age barbarism, their previous glory all but forgotten.) 1500 BC: Nithian culture begins its climb to greatness. One colonial expedition led by the Nithian Traldar clan travels to the lands now known as Karameikos. As these colonies spread out, they become the first humans to inhabit Darokin. The Immortal Pflarr creates a jackal-headed servitor-race he calls the Hutaaka. He uses many of them as agents, heralds, and servants throughout the known world; he plants a large colony of them in mountains south of the Nithians. Modest Bronze Age human cultures in the eastern lowlands of the Northern Reaches. Sophisticated gnomish and dwarven cultures co-exist with primitive giantish clans in the western uplands of the Northern Reaches. The elf, Atziann attains Immortality and adopts the Azcan form of his name, Atzanteotl, "Atziann the Divine." He begins whispering to the priests that rule Azcan society and selected subterranean elves, turning them to evil and entropy. Only Atruatzin, the Azcan priest-king, who would later become Atruaghin, resists the Immortal. A group of halflings pause in their northward migration at Thanegia Island. Dismayed by the unrest in the land, they quickly move on. On the Alphatians' world, the civilization has achieved total mastery of its environment; the great universities are at the peak of their powers and just beginning to indulge in serious scholastic competitions and squabbles. 1494 BC: A terrible plague strikes Chitlacan, killing almost two thirds of its population. Atruatzin, himself a survivor of the disease, and his most faithful followers are driven out of Chitlacan by his philosophical and political rivals (who follow Atzanteotl). They settle in the fortress of Quauhnahuac. 1484 BC: Driven by the whispers of Atzanteotl, and his own fear that Atruatzin might reclaim the throne, the treacherous Azcan usurper leads an massive assault on Quauhnuac. Everyone found in the fortress is slain or sacrifices, but there is no trace of Atruatzin or his inner circle. The priests curse the land on which Quauhnahuac is built, and sow salt among the ruins. 1470 BC: The Chochomecs (an Azcan tribe) desert Atacalpa, migrating to Oltec lands of the east. 1468 BC: Atruatzin and his loyal companions find a resting-place, where they establish a temple to the old gods. They name it Mictlan, the "Land of the Dead." 1420 BC: The underground elven wanderers stumble upon Mictlan, and overthrow the humans. Those elves who have been seduced by Atzanteotl declare that the temple is sacred to him, and he has given them victory over their enemies and a place to call home. These elves become the Schattenalfen. Most of the elves are uneasy about this alien Immortal, but they are weary, and so they settle and build the city of Aengmor. All of Atruatzin's followers are slain; he alone escapes. 1410 BC: Atruatzin reaches the surface world in his quest for meaning in his life. He finds the lost descendants of the surface world Azcans and Oltecs living in the shattered lands north of the Sea of Dread. 1400 BC: Within a few generations, the Traldar settlers have suffered enormous population losses (through bad winters, animal attacks, and disease), have lost most of the materials and time necessary to forge metal (and consequently have forgotten how), and have reverted to a pre-agrarian lifestyle. They now fall under the domination of the Hutaaka humanoid people from the northern mountainous region. Denwarf, golem-like leader of the Known World's dwarves, settles his people in the great cavern called Dengar and disappears into the lower caverns. A group of Schattenalfen are driven out of Aengmor (by the will of their patron). They retrace an earlier expedition's path to the Hollow World. Atruatzin, who now calls himself Atruaghin, unites the warring tribes he lives among. His skill as a warrior and leader makes the a challenging, but not impossible task. The newly unified people begin to call themselves the Children of Atruaghin - the outside world calls them the Atruaghin Clans. 1395 BC: After an unsuccessful bid to unseat the Kogolor dwarves, the Schattenalfen move on to settle near the Azcans, with whom they immediately make war. Atzanteotl delights in and encourages the instant, uncompromising enmity among his followers. 1310 BC: Quest for Steel; Wogar Tribe migrates west from Blackmoor to a great lake, called the Cradle. 1305 BC: Prophecy from King Wogar's Great Shaman; Wogar Tribe moves south, along a major river, following the Great Shaman's floating gri-gri. 1300 BC: The halflings from the southern continent, long-abandoned by their friends the elves, and increasingly endangered by the ever-growing human population, make a mass naval migration to the northern continent. They settle the area later called the Five Shires, which they name Faerdinel. They become friends with a declining, pacifistic clan of elves called the Gentle Folk. In the Savage Coast, goblinoid hordes decimate elven and Oltec civilization. Those humans and elves who remain fall to a savage, semi-nomadic existence. (RS) 1299 BC: Vestland trolls miss a turn and pop-up in Broken Lands. Trollhattan is founded. Bagni Gullymaw eats an elephant. Nithia enslaves the Black Moon horde of trolls. 1296 BC: Ogres kill King Wogar's Great Shaman at the Battle of Khuzud, and flee with his treasure. They settle in the Sind Desert and learn local culture. 1290 BC: The outer-world Shadow Elf city of Aengmor is "destroyed" (actually, merely surrounded by lava and made uninhabitable) during a volcanic eruption; many Schattenalfen escape, burrowing deeper into the crust of the earth. Actually, this is part of a grand scheme of Atzanteotl, their patron. 1270 BC: Great Drought dries up the ogres' wells in Sind. The ogres migrate east, devastating and enslaving Sind villages. A great goblin horde lead by Wogar drives through Hule. They ravage the land, slaughtering many people and enslaving the others. Their reign of terror ends when Hosadus, a young holy man, convinces the horde's leaders that the sacred blue knife they seek lies to the east, beyond the Black Mountains - beyond even the Great Waste. Wogar and most of his horde move on, spurred by the unexpected revelation. The remainder stays in Hule as followers of Hosadus. 1269 BC: Ogres settle in Broken Lands. They found Ogremoor. 1265 BC: Ahmanni Turtlerider and Atruaghin become lovers. Atruaghin's ageless nature becomes apparent, making marriage between them impossible. 1263 BC: Wogar becomes an Immortal. His tribe continues along the coast to Atruaghin. They learn the use of feathers, war paints, light cavalry tactics, and scalping. 1262 BC: A small band of Urduk explorers from Sindh stumble upon the ancient city of the Karimari, and convince them to reduce their isolationism. 1260 BC: Atruaghin leaves the Atruaghin Clans to explore the surface world in a search for the nature of his seemingly eternal youth. He appoints new chiefs to each of the Clans and establishes the Words of Atruaghin that his people live by to this day. 1259 BC: Tahkati Stormtamer, now an Immortal, agrees to help Atzanteotl in destroying the work that Atruaghin has done in uniting the Atruaghin Clans. 1257 BC: Wogar Tribe, Red Orcs, conquers and enslaves the people of the Atruaghin Clans. Their rule is oppressive and savage. Tahkati Stormtamer realizes that he has been betrayed by Atzanteotl and breaks all ties with the Immortals of Entropy. He vows vengeance. 1254 BC: Wogar Tribe splits into three nations. One settles south of Atruaghin, another in the Five Shires. The last goes north, and torches a trading post called Akorros, then moves to central Broken Lands. 1190 BC: Descendants of the Great Horde resurface in the Broken Lands. The Tribes meet again and discover the Rock of Oenkmar and a knife they mistake for one of their legendary artifacts. End of the Quest for a Blue Knife. Truce proclaimed. 1104 BC: Underground elves discover the Refuge of Stone and take the name of shadow elves unto themselves. Building work begins on the City of Stars. 1100 BC: Nithians lead by Minroth colonize the islands later to be called the Minrothad islands, and found Harbortown. Nithians under Prince Ramenhotep establish the colony of Thothia on the Isle of Dawn. This is the eastern extent of Nithian colonization. 1090 BC: On the Alphatians' world, the Followers of Flame begin their serious rivalry with the Followers of Air. 1050 BC: Great wizards of the Nithians, inspired by the Immortal Pflarr's servant race (the Hutaaka), create the gnoll race by magically blending trolls and gnomes. But they've been deluded that the results might be an equivalent servant-race for the Nithians; instead, the gnolls turn out to be savage, strong, warlike, and prolific. They rebel; they escape and later invade Karameikos. Nithian priests visit the Shamans of Oenkmar. Atzanteotl is increasingly offended. 1027 BC: On the Alphatians' world, sporadic violence breaks out between the Followers of Flame and Followers of Air. 1010 BC: On the Alphatians' world, a temporary peace results from one academian's proposal of the Flame vs. Air essay debate. 1009 BC: On the Alphatians' world, Emperor Alphaks I arbitrarily declares the Flames to have won the debate. Outrage, protest, rebellion and revolt result; the Followers of Flame war with the Followers of Air. 1000 BC: The Broken Lands are overpopulated. Broken Lands orcs, ogres, trolls, gnolls, and goblins migrate outward, especially southward, displacing other humanoid tribes before them. All forces join and raid Rockhome; they are defeated by dwarven King Blystar III. Minor raids go on for 500 years. Orcs from the Broken Lands invade and conquer the region now known as the Five Shires. Their reign is brutal, to say the least. Gnolls cross southern Darokin and invade Traldar lands, destroying their Golden Age. Most of the Darokin humans flee north, right into orc territory, where few survive. The Hutaakans retreat to their valley while the Traldar and gnolls practically annihilate one another. By the time the gnolls retreat, the Traldar population is 20% of its pre-invasion amount. Many seafaring Traldar, led by a lesser king named Milen, flee south across the Sea of Dread, and reach the southern continent to the east of what would later be called the Hinterlands. They travel far upriver, and establish a new kingdom there. Elsewhere, nonhuman tribal movements pit tribes of orcs and goblins against the dwarves. Gruugrakh gnolls, fleeing their Nithian masters, first come to the Plain of Fire and settle there. The Nithian Empire is at its peak; it is the first post-Blackmoor empire in the world. It features monumental architecture, large urban complexes in the delta region of the River Nithia, conquest of neighboring states, establishment of more remote colonies, and the development of sophisticated arts and culture. Colonies are planted in the Makai islands (south of the Five Shires area), where they conquer the aboriginal natives. The humans of the Northern Reaches areas are conquered and enslaved by the Nithian Empire. The Nithians, made curious about the southern continent by the Traldar flight in that direction, transport many Northern Reaches slaves to Harbortown and thence to the southern continent, to colonize there. This is the southern limit of Nithian expansion, and it isn't very successful; The Northern Reaches slaves soon rebel and slay their Nithian overlords. These tribes carve out their own territory in the southern continent, and are the forefathers of the Thyatian, Kerendan and Hattian tribes who later found the empire of Thyatis. Black explorers from Tangor find and colonize the Pearl Islands. On the Alphatians' world, the war between the Followers of Air and Followers of Flame reaches its zenith. The Followers of Flame are defeated. Alphaks is banished. Old Alphatia is destroyed; the Followers of Air come to the Known World to settle on the great continent they name Alphatia, bringing along natural strains of wolf and tiger lycanthropy. They proceed to build a mighty empire based on magic. 1000 - 610 BC: Orcs, part of the migration from the Broken Lands, invade the Five Shires region and enslave the halflings. The Gentle Folk elves of the Five Shires region disappear or are destroyed by the orcs. Over a period of four hundred years, the halflings are conquered and reconquered by orcs, dwarves, and bandits of different races; eventually they reclaim their land and establish a strong kingdom. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:20:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 3/8 900 BC: Atruaghin returns to the Hollow World briefly. He visits the ruins of Quauhnahuac and uses his ever increasing power to create Atruaghin's Mystic Conveyor, a powerful magical artifact the links the Known and Hollow Worlds. 800 BC: The ice finally recedes to the north of Glantri. Elves led by Mealiden Starwatcher leave the Sylvan Realm via the magical rainbow; they carry nine seedlings of the tree of life with them. They land in the forested regions of what would later be called Thyatis, but are driven out by the warlike humans there, and flee northward. The Callarii clan settles in Traladara territory; most of the rest settle in a windy steppes area. Elvish wizards begin to alter those steppes with their magic, changing the land nearly overnight into terrain where a mighty forest could flourish. In the process, they drive orcs from the open lands to the west. One of the elf-clans, the Shiye, listens to the guidance of the elf-immortal Eiryndul and makes a dangerous crossing to the continent of Alphatia, where they set up their own kingdom in the deep central forests of that continent. Using the artifact he constructed at Quauhnahuac, Atruaghin returns from his exploration of the Known and Hollow Worlds to lead his adopted people in a revolt against the Red Orcs. The conflict is savage, but in the end the Children of Atruaghin are successful. Deep in the southern continent, the Milenians, descendants of the Traldar, are flourishing, conquering the surrounding tribes, and establishing a strong empire. Human clans begin building permanent settlements in Darokin. 795 BC: Atruaghin recalls the memory of that great plateau that once stood in the lands of his people. Using magics and powers that he has acquired from his travels throughout the Known and Hollow Worlds, he calls it back into existence that the Children of Atruaghin might never again fear invasion. Atruaghin, having completed the Path of the Polymath, becomes an Immortal in the Sphere of Thought in recognition of his lifelong struggle against entropy. 792 BC: Atzanteotl begins to turn Danel Tigerstripes against Atruaghin and his followers. Atruaghin sends Hattani Stoneclaw, leader of the Bear Clan, to prevent his corruption. The intervention is too late, the Children of the Tiger begin to worship Atzanteotl and Hattani Stoneclaw becomes an Immortal. 700 BC: Thanatos, Immortal of the Sphere of Entropy, helped by the Immortal Ranivorus, corrupts the pharaoh of the Nithians. The pharaoh turns the Nithian empire toward worship of Entropy. The Nithian colonists in Thothia turn away from the Entropic faith of their homeland and increasingly turn to a new form of mysticism. Nithians arrive on the Savage Coast. They interbreed somewhat with Oltecs Elves of the eastern coast establish settlements in and around what will eventually become Torreon and Narvaez. (RS) Mealiden is acclaimed king of Alfheim. 610 BC: Inspired by the example of Atruaghin and his people some two centuries before, the Hin revolt against the humanoids and reclaim their place as an independent state. The modern Five Shires are born. 600 BC: Three warrior-tribes from the southern continent (the Thyatians, Kerendans, and Hattians), hard-pressed by the Milenians to the south, migrate to the northern continent. 572 BC: The hin formally organize their land into five semiautonomous Shires, each ruled by an elected Sheriff. 556 BC: A boy named Yav is born to an elven mother and a Tanagoro father in the Serpent Peninsula. He is the strongest seer yet known in the area, and his many timely warnings of hurricanes and other disasters make him a hero. 529 BC: A series of abuses by the Serpent Peninsula seers cause a major revolt. Elven purists slaughter every seer they can find. Some take more extreme measures, killing people of mixed elven and human blood regardless of their precognitive abilities. The unrest ends with the power of the seers broken and the Sheyallia elves fleeing the wrath of the Tanagoro people. Yav vanishes; it is thought the elves killed him. 528 BC: 3,000 Sheyallia elves fleeing from the Serpent Peninsula stumble into the Plain of Fire and discover the intricate networks of caves and tunnels beneath. The settle, war with the gnolls, and eventually cooperate with them. 500 BC: The Traldar are in the midst of their Dark Age. Communication between communities is infrequent. Local dialects begin to differ widely. The national epic of King Halav is the only thing which gives the people a sense of unity. Linguistic changes are already advanced enough that the people consider themselves Traladara, descendants of the Traldar, the people of King Halav. Elsewhere, the Nithian Empire, having incurred Immortal dislike, abruptly ends; the Immortals alter the climate, divert the headwaters of the River Nithia, promote social unrest, deny magical powers to their clerics, and take other actions which cause the Empire to collapse catastrophically. The Immortals use magic to ensure that almost all trace of the Empire is wiped from the face of the Known World. The colonies are systematically destroyed - except for Thothia, which has already turned away from the Entropic faith which led to the destruction of Nithia. Ancestors of modern Alasiyan peoples withdraw to desert basins and establish a nomadic culture. Weak mainland human tribal cultures in the Northern Reaches are at the mercy of giantish clans. The remaining Black Moon gnolls scatter east and west. In the Ierendi islands, the Malpheggi lizard men, doomed to extinction by a parasitic plague brought by the Nithian colonists, wipe out the Nithians before dying themselves. This is part of the Immortal plan to destroy the Nithian Empire. By now, the steppes where Mealiden's elves settled have become the mighty Canolbarth forest. By now, the Thyatians, Kerendans and Hattians have conquered and assimilated the human tribes who opposed them; they are now in full control of the region which will one day be called Thyatis. Yav, known as Mulogo, convinces the Tanagoro people of the Serpent Peninsula to sail across the Western Sea and settle on the Immortal's Arm. Herath wars with Wallara; manscorpions betray the enduks and take possession of Nimmur; Nithians disappear, leaving little evidence other than a few relics and pyramids. The Red Curse is created, but confined by Herathian mages in portions of the eastern Savage Coast. (RS) 493 BC: Queen Ubdala of the Broken Lands raises Great Horde again. She recruits goblins and gnolls in the Altan Tepes, and marches north. 492 BC: At the battle of Sardal Pass, they are routed, the orcs utterly massacred. Ubdala dies. Hordes routed south and west, crowding Cruth mountains and Altan Tepes. Gnomes kicked out. 490 BC: Kobold clans are driven into the uplands of the Northern Reaches from the west. They overrun and exterminate the gnomes, and occupy their subterranean kingdoms. 480 BC: Yav leaves the Tanagoro and sails back to the Serpent Peninsula to search for what was causing the unnatural greed and selfish thoughts (not to mention precognitive abilities) of residents. 452 BC: Mahmatti Running Elk becomes an Immortal after becoming one of the most powerful shamani ever to exist atop the Atruaghin Plateau. 450 BC: Dwarves arrive along the eastern Savage Coast and build small colonies. (RS) 400 BC: The prophet Mulogo (actually Yav) reappears and leads the People of Yav from the Immortal's Arm back to Thanegia Island. 350 BC: Mealiden abdicates the throne to follow Ilsundal's path to Immortality. Alevar of the Grunalf clan becomes king of Alfheim. 322 BC: A Schattenalfen attack annihilates the southern Azcan city of Axateotl for the seventh, and last, time. 251 BC: A legendary gnome craftsman named Glimreen Gemeye discovers a jet engine artifact of the destroyed Blackmoor civilization. 250 BC: Mealiden becomes an Immortal of the Sphere of Energy. 200 BC: Tritons fleeing from their devilfish enemies enter the Sunlit Sea and establish the Kingdom of Undersea in the waters between the islands of Ierendi and Minrothad. By now, orcs control the land to the west of the Streel River, as far south as Akorros. The also control the Broken Lands, southern Glantri, and most of Ethengar. Humans control the areas south of Akorros; elves control Alfheim to the east. Alphatians begin settling the region of the Peninsula of Esterhold. They use their magic and sophisticated military forces to drive most of the Jennites back several hundred miles and enslave the rest. The centuries-old Milenian Empire begins to weaken. 192 BC: The Alphatians, annoyed by the piratical activities of the Thyatian tribes, launch a campaign to conquer Thyatis. 190 BC: The Alphatians complete their conquest of Thyatis; Thyatis is now part of the Alphatian empire. 150 BC: The outer-world Shadow Elves contact the humanoid tribes of the Broken Lands, spreading their hatred of the above-ground elves and persuading the humanoids to attack Alfheim. Tortle civilization rises on the central Savage Coast. (RS) 100 BC: The Milenian civilization has grown soft and decadent. It enslaves surrounding tribes and nations; most soldiers in the Milenian army are conscripts from conquered tribes. The Immortals decide to preserve the Empire in its earlier, more heroic form; they transport to the Hollow World all Milenians who adhere to the earlier Milenian goals and desires. Depriving the Milenians of their few remaining true warriors and uncorrupted government leaders sends the empire to its doom even more swiftly. Newcomers reach Skothar's southwestern shores. They come from the continent of Davania, fleeing the collapse of the Milenian Empire and seeking to establish a colony where their way of life could survive. They find the coast already inhabited, and ask and are granted permission by the nearby natives to settle a stretch of wilderness between two prosperous Jennite cities. In the Lost Valley of the Hutaaka, the descendants of the Traldar finally free themselves from Hutaakan rulership and begin warring on their former masters. This racial war is destined to go on for another 1,100 years. 50 BC: The decadent Milenian civilization collapses utterly under the attacks of surrounding tribes. 2 BC: Lucinius Trenzantenbium, a Thyatian-born, Alphatian-trained wizard, kills the Alphatian wizards in Thyatis and declares himself King of Thyatis; was breaks out between Thyatis and Alphatia. 0 AC: The economies of both Thyatis and Alphatia have been wrecked by the war; the two powers conduct a peace treaty in the city of Edairo, the capital of Thothia (on the Isle of Dawn). Later, in Thyatis, General Zendrolion Tatriokanitas assassinates King Lucinius and several other kings gathered there, and crowns himself Emperor of Thyatis, Ochalea and the Pearl Islands. The Thyatians celebrate for weeks. Thyatians do some trading with Minroth islanders. The Traladara begin a period of regrowth as trade is slowly established with southern peoples. Peaceable demihumans (the Callarii elves and the Highforge gnomes) settle in Traladara territories; warlike demihumans (goblins, hobgoblins, orcs) do as well, in lesser numbers. Early Alasiyan agricultural settlements along coastal plain and interior desert oases. 1 AC: Yav reappears once again, attempting to fix an artifact. However, the fix drains all ambition from the Tanagoro. 21 AC: Ansel Darokin declares himself King of Darokin, beginning the reign of the Eastwind Kings. 39 AC: The Flying City of Serraine makes its maiden flight. 67 AC: Orcs living near Lake Amsorak wrest most of Darokin from its human inhabitants in this bloody summer. The humans and elves of Darokin join forces to drive the orcs out; they're successful. Thousands of orcs flee into Nagpuri, slaying and pillaging as they overrun the lands. Nagpuri's warriors must contend with orc troubles for the next decade. 87 AC: Aden I, King of Darokin, is killed by orcs, ending the Eastwind reign. 88 AC: Orcs make major gains against the leaderless Darokin humans, forcing the Elves of Alfheim to support Corwyn Attleson as a compromise choice to lead Darokin. The reign of Darokin Kings begins. 100 AC: Descendants of Makistani tribal nomads enter Ylarum from the north and settle the Ust-Urt Valley. Celedryl of the Erendyl clan is crowned king of Alfheim. Goblinoid hordes sweep the Savage Coast again. Tortle civilization falls, and humans, dwarves, and elves remaining along the eastern coast are prompted to build permanent settlements. (RS) 100 - 150 AC: Three prominent families rise to power in the Asanda plain - the Pratikutas of Putnabad (which includes present-day Jaibul and Jalawar), the Rastrapalas of Shajarkand, and the Mahavarmans of Nagpuri and Gunjab. Throughout the century, successive generations gain and lose power and ground in almost constant struggles for control. 122 AC: In Darokin, Corwyn I dies after a long and successful reign. His son, Corwyn II, assumes power. 150 AC: Thyatians begin colonizing into the southeastern coastal plain and the foothills of the Altan Tepe range in Ylarum, enslaving and assimilating, and scattering the indigenous population. 179 AC: The Pratikutas seize control of the entire length of the Asanda River and most of the Salt Swamp - despite internal problems with revolts and rebellions. 186 AC: Rajah Vijay Pratikuta dies, leaving Putnabad to Sarad, his only son. Rajah Sarad's weak rules loses all but a fraction of Putnabad's territory. Newly-powerful families rule in Jalawar and Jhengal. Other rajahs suspect these new rulers are shape shifters. 200 AC: Rockhome dwarves begin colonizing into outside lands; they are usually welcomed into human communities. 250 AC: The Alphatians begin colonizing into the northern and central coastal plain of Ylarum, enslaving and scattering the indigenous population. Some of the Ylari driven out by the Alphatian and Thyatian aggression migrate to Darokin. The Alphatians also found the colony of New Alphatia on the Isle of Dread; Alphatian magic is adapted to seafaring needs. Alphatian settlers colonize the side of Trader's Isle left uninhabited by the Minroth traders. At first they fight, but soon trade wins over war. Nomads driven from their homelands in Ylarum by Thyatian colonists make their way into Darokin and then into Sind. They bring with them single-humped dromedaries, fine horses, and techniques for making /flying carpets/. Some settle in Sindhi towns. Many more find kindred spirits in the Urduk nomads west of Sind and add their herds and desert traditions to those of their new-found brethren. Rajahs seeking to strengthen their armies with Ylari warriors try to attract Ylari settlers to their lands. 276 AC: Human and elf cultures in the Isles of Dread meet and establish trade. 284 AC: Minrothian and Alphatian cultures clash on Dread Island over slave trading issues; elves force the humans to make peace. 293 AC: Last of the orc tribes driven from Darokin. 300 AC: The water elf trading port of Seahome is established on Alfeisle in the Minrothad isles. 330 AC: A group of humans exploring deep underground finds the shadow elves and rekindles their interest in the surface world. 360 AC: Minroth traders carry slaves for Thyatian Empire; halfling slaves are introduced to the Isles of Dread. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:24:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 4/8 390 AC: Disastrous humanoid raid on Alfheim. Some orcs captured. 395 AC: The Flaems, an offshoot of the Alphatians from the original Alphatian homeworld, settle the Glantri area where they discover the Radiance. They bring natural strains of bear and boar lycanthropy. 400 AC: Ostland raiders range south to Thyatis and north to Norwold. Mainland Northern Reaches tribes are victimized by the sea raiders and by giantish clans. The Flaems discover that other, enemy Alphatians are in possession of the mighty Alphatian empire to the east. The Traladaran village of Marilenev begins doing more trade business than fishing and begins slow, gradual growth from the increasing trade. Thyatian clerics learn the "Song of King Halav" and commit it to writing for the first time. Rogue Alphatian wizards attempting to develop a hardier, more powerful Alphatian race create fast-spreading magical strains of the curses of vampirism and lycanthropy. 401 AC: A two-month epidemic of lycanthropy in Alphatia results in thousands of werecreatures and dozens of weretypes. The newly-formed Alphatian Center for Disease Control acts quickly to limit the effects of the epidemic. 406 AC: The magical strain of lycanthropy stabilizes into seven primary weretypes - wolf, boar, tiger, bear, bat, fox, and giant hawk. 410 AC: Minroth traders unwittingly help spread the new vampirism and lycanthropy throughout the seafaring world, including the Kingdom of Undersea. 411 AC: The first wererat awakens to intelligence and the stunning revelation that he can take human form. He calls himself Mrikitat. 415 AC: Weresharks first appear in Undersea, triggering an epidemic of lycanthropy among the sea peoples. 419 AC: Normal seals carry lycanthropy to the sub-polar regions of Mystara. 425 AC: Minrothad traders unwittingly introduce lycanthropy to Sind. The disease threatens to overrun every level of Sindhi society. Weretigers are especially prevalent. Other shape shifters already in Sind see this as an opportunity to unite their kind - dopplegangers and mujinas allying with lycanthropes - and seize complete control of the area. Ka the Preserver, an Immortal, fears this would irrevocably alter Sindian culture and transplants nearly half of the Sindhi population to the Hollow World before the shape shifters can effect their takeover. Ka gives false memories to those he transplants - memories of an outer world Sind once ruled by shape shifters called /chambahara/, or "deformed animals." Those left behind also receive false memories of a devastating plague that killed half the Sindhi population. They are left with many shape shifters to contend with, as Ka transported only a fraction of the shape shifting population to the Hollow World. For a while, a Sind ruled by shape shifters becomes a reality. 443 - 445 AC: Expeditions of elves and humans attempt to purge Dread Island of all lycanthropes; human population is decimated; this time is called the Silver Purge. Similar events take place in Undersea, during the Night of the Long Knives; many weresharks flee to deeper waters. Werecreatures know this time as the Great Persecution. 445 - 450 AC: Lycanthropes fleeing from the Great Persecution establish colonies on every continent. 450 AC: Malf Quickhand leads a halfling slave revolt; newly-freed halflings take ships and migrate to the island they name Open Isle. Traldar arrive in the Savage Coast region. They establish several city-states on the eastern shores of the Gulf of Hule. Traldar who settle on the western shores are absorbed into existing human cultures descended from the Oltecs. Humans of the eastern coast begin to establish permanent villages and begin to intermingle with elves of the region. (RS) 451 AC: Mrikitat establishes a nation of wererats in the sewers beneath the City of Thyatis. Sindhi mages led by Maga Aditi, a name-level female magic-user, unite and overthrow the shape shifters. A brutal purge follows. Elaborate tests and carefully plotted traps expose a great many shape shifters - dopplegangers and lycanthropes alike - who are promptly executed. When the dust settles, the magic-users of Sind establish their own caste, the /Jadugeryas/, and claim themselves high-born, like the Himayas (warriors) and Rishiyas (clerics). 460 AC: Wereseals join the list of persistent weretypes. 475 AC: The forest elf trading port of Verdon is founded on Alfeisle. 478 AC: Ostland is united under King Cnute the Bold. 488 AC: Hadric Corser, the Great Uniter, brings the remaining Minroth humans together; founds the city of Minrothad and lays foundation for an organized trading federation. 491 AC: Mrikitat the wererat attains Immortality in the Sphere of Time. 500 AC: Thyatian and Alphatian colonies in Ylarum begin what will become three centuries of warfare. The Alasiyan tribes are constantly feuding. Conflict between Alphatian and Thyatian empires begins; Minroth traders maintain neutrality and dominate merchant shipping for both sides. Traders bearing vampirism and wolf, bear, and boar lycanthropy settle in Traladara's deep woods and flourish there. Big Chief Sitting Drool unites the Broken Lands. Siege of Corunglain. Orcs threaten Darokin City. Three of Cnute's sons colonize the mainland near Ostland. Troll and giant raids are discouraged by punitive expeditions. Humans move into the areas that will eventually become Eusedria and Robrenn; some elves and dwarves ally with these humans. Lupins and rakasta form permanent settlements along the central Savage Coast, in lands that will eventually become Renardy and Bellayne. (RS) 501 - 504 AC: Darokin blames the elves for an attack on a farm near the Alfheim border, and battles Alfheim in the Elfwar. 502 AC: Corunglain freed. Darokin Punitive Expedition massacred and devoured in Trollhattan. Scandal in Darokin. 510 AC: A Northrock chief named Qeodhar organizes his people and persuades the Alphatian emperor to accept his nation as a subject territory of Alphatia. 520 AC: The halfling trading port and capital city of Open Isle, Malfton, is established. Second Punitive Expedition from Darokin is massacred in Kol. First caravans attempt to cross Broken Lands. 522 AC: Second Siege of Corunglain. Villages torched. 523 AC: In Darokin, Corunglain falls to the orc armies of Big Chief Sitting Drool. Thousands are killed and the entire city is looted. Enslaved population taken back to Broken Lands. 525 AC: Third Punitive Expedition from Glantri and Darokin. Sitting Drool brought back in chains. 526 AC: Sitting Drool traded for slaves and gold taken from Corunglain, causing great political uproar in Darokin. Truce with Darokin and Glantri. 527 AC: Adventurers assassinate Sitting Drool. Tribes break up again. Various humanoid hordes invade Red Orcland. 550 AC: The beast man invasion of the wizard Illodius scars the magical forests of Alfheim. Alfheim Town founded in the blighted area. 560 AC: Alfheim/Darokin alliance crushes the shadowelf invasion. 570 AC: First settlement is started on the Island of Ierendi by castoffs from the Five Shires. The island is already inhabited by small tribes of native aboriginal peoples. 571 AC: Thyatis establishes prisons on five Ierendi islands currently inhabited by shipbuilding halflings. 575 AC: The hin begin using the Ierendi islands as year-round naval bases; their seaborne trade flourishes. 585 AC: Ethengar raiders oppose the Flaemish in numerous skirmishes; the Khan's horsemen are driven out. 586 AC: The Thyatians, in need of funds and resources, conquer the Ierendi islands and seize the shipbuilding facilities there. The halflings retaliate with piratical raids on Thyatian shipping. 593 AC: Ruaidhri kills the last of the werehawks. 600 AC: On Ierendi, Mad Creeg lead a rebellion among the prisoners. With native help, Mad Creeg's improvised army drives Thyatians from the islands. The Sylvan Lands are conquered by humans led by the wizard Moorkroft; the surviving elves of the Sylvan Lands, the Feadiel clan, make the dangerous passage to Alfheim. The northern barbarians unite into a tremendous army that nearly overruns Hule. With city after city falling, Bozdogan reveals that he has reincarnated Hosadus. The legendary hero combines warfare with trickery and deceit, driving the barbarian hordes from Hule. 601 AC: Gregus Verdier, the "Second Uniter," is born on Alfeisle in Minrothad. 602 AC: Monarchy formed as Mad Creeg claims all islands, establishing the Kingdom of Ierendi, and declares himself ruler. 604 AC: Vestlanders revolt against Ostland in response to increasingly increasing taxes. 609 AC: Decades of feuding between the Jadugeryas and Rishiyas of Putnabad end as the Jadugeryas flee to the southern portion of Putnabad and carve their own mumlyket out of the badlands. They call their small kingdom Jaibul. 610 AC: A band of a hundred elves fleeing their recently conquered Sylvan Lands far to the northwest encounter a group of Graakhalians on the Plain of Fire. Most decide to stay; the rest, having problems accepting the gnolls, leave at sword-point. 614 AC: Ottar the Just defeats King Finnbogi of Ostland in the Battle of Bridenfjord, and establishes the Kingdom of Vestland. Ostland continues to raid southern mainland coasts. Vestland pursues trade with Alphatian and Thyatian colonies. 623 AC: Devil swine first appear in Alphatia. 637 AC: Black Toes assumes rulership of Ierendi upon the death of his father. He marries Kethy Matrongle from Glantri and assumes her surname. The Matrongle family begins long control of the island. 645 AC: Ethengar attempts a major invasion of what is now Glantri but is defeated at Skullhorn Pass. 646 AC: Gregus Verdier forges forest elves of Minrothad into unified political and economic faction. 662 AC: The Flaemish attempt to invade Ethengar, but the expeditionary force is utterly massacred in the steppes. 675 AC: King Celedryl purges shadowelf infiltrators from Alfheim, but is only partly successful. 687 AC: Ierendi merchants discover the rich trade opportunities Sindhi ports offer. Jaibul and Putnabad compete fiercely for foreign trade. 691 AC: Gregus Verdier establishes the Council of Dread and the Minrothad Guilds. Yubraj Narenda ul Nervi, the Crown Prince of Sindrastan, nearly dies when his favorite elephant goes mad and gores him. A holy man saves his life, calming the elephant and healing the prince. While he lies unconscious, Narenda experiences a terrible vision of danger Sind will face in the future - a danger the Sindhi people will be powerless against unless Sind's independent mumlykets are united. When Narenda awakens, the holy man is gone; no one can say who he was or where he went. Narenda's father, Sanjiva ul Nervi, dies later in the year, leaving the rulership of Sindrastan to his son. 695 AC: Rajah Narenda ul Nervi's army initiates the slow and bloody process of the unification of Sind by conquering Gom, Karganj, and Naral. 696 AC: Sandapur falls to Narenda's onslaught. Backed by the allied forces of the rajahs of Jalawar and Putnabad, the village of Pramayana stands against Sinddrasan's armies for more than a year. 698 AC: Pramayana falls at last, but Rajah Narenda realizes he cannot hope to conquer all of Jalawar. He strikes westward instead of south, taking Sindri and Khamrati and the rest of Jhengal. 700 AC: Warfare intensifies between Alphatian and Thyatian colonies in Ylarum. Gregus Verdier is assassinated. Doriath, a former adventurer, assumes the throne of Alfheim. The Erewan faction of Erendyl clan leaves Alfheim for Glantri. Rajah Narenda establishes Gola Keep to encourage desert trading caravans to enter the Asanda Plain via Jhengal. His generous trade agreements with Slagovich bring fabulous trade and wealth to Jhengal. The Rajah also marries his first wife, Drisana, who bears him a son the next year. 703 AC: Rajah Narenda's forces conquer Baratpur, bringing Baratkand under Sindrastani control. The rajah assumes the title Rajadhiraja, allows the former rajah of Baratkand to retain his title and some governmental privileges, and places Rajah Javis Nandin on the throne of Jhengal. 704 AC: Still resistant to being conquered by force, both Putnabad and Jalawar agree to unite with Sindrastan (and pay annual taxes and tribute to Rajadhiraja Narenda ul Nervi) in return for sharing the benefits of trade with Slagovich. The ruling Jadugeryas of Jaibul reach an agreement with the rajadhiraja, allowing them independence in return for promises not to interfere with Sindhi affairs, and to allow caravans traveling through the Barren Plain to pass through Jaibul to Putnabad. 705 AC: The Rajadhiraja turns his attention northward, his eyes on the fertile lands of Nagpuri. Within six months, the rajah of Nagpuri swears fealty to Rajadhiraja Narenda ul Nervi. The deal is sealed with the marriage between the Rajadhiraja and Kumuda, the rajah's daughter. 706 - 713 AC: Bloody wars to control Kadesh and Gunjab nearly exhaust the Rajadhiraja's resources. In AC 712, Raneshwar falls to Narenda's troops. The next year, Kadesh agrees to unite with lower Sind, provided the Rajah of Kadesh retains his rulership under the new title of Maharajah (Great Kind), just as the Rajah of Gunjab was allowed the year before. The Maharajah of Kadesh also betroths his infant daughter to the Rajadhiraja's twelve-year-old son. 713 AC: The Ierendi Navy destroys a Thyatian naval patrol. The Royal Navy achieves instant preeminence among the powers of the Known World. 714 AC: Rajadhiraja Narenda ul Nervi announces the total unification of the Kingdom of Sind with the treaty reached between Sindrastan and Peshmir. Rajah Ravi Prabhapravitha of Peshmir assumes the title of Maharajah. Mandara, the maharajah's eldest daughter, becomes the Rajadhiraja's third wife. 717 AC: The Rajadhiraja charges Jahore and its ruling families with the task of building a Sindhi Navy. The first problem is to find suitable timber; most bust be imported from eastern lands. 722 AC: In Graakhalia, a rebellion by some of the Sylvan Lands immigrants is quickly put down, and the leaders executed. 723 AC: Santhral II dies, ending the reign of the Darokin Kings. The nation breaks down into independent dominions ruled by whoever can afford to pay troops to keep the roads passable. 726 AC: The newly-completed Sindhi navy of four merchant vessels and a war galley mysteriously sinks in Jaibul's outer harbor shortly after returning from their maiden voyage to Tanakumba. The rajah of Putnabad suspects sabotage on the part of foreign merchants jealous of their own lucrative positions as middlemen in the trade between the eastern and western lands. 728 AC: The Alphatian colonies in Ylarum destroy the Thyatian colonies there; Thyatian colonists flee. The d'Ambrevilles and their vassals arrive from Old Averoigne in another dimension, establishing a French-like culture in the wooded valleys of northwestern Glantri. 730 AC: Settlers come to Glantri, including fair elves (descendants of the elves who fled the area in 1700 BC) and humans from Traladara and Thyatian colonies in Ylarum. Frictions begin between the Flaems and settlers. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #36 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #37 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Saturday, 13 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 037 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Daniel Boese Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:28:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 5/8 735 AC: The elderly Narenda ul Nervi dies in his sleep. His son, Kistna, proves a just and capable Rajadhiraja. 748 AC: The merrow of the Sunlit Sea agree to help the Ierendi Navy in return for Ierendi agreeing to protect sacred merrow shrines from pirate plunder. 750 AC: A distant descendent of Yav leads the People of Yav on the road to the prosperous Yavdlom civilization. 758 AC: Yav becomes an Immortal. 776 AC: Rajadhiraja Kistna ul Nervi dies of a fever after reigning for four decades. His strong rulership cemented Sind's unification. A grandson, Hansh ul Nervi, succeeds Kistna as Rajadhiraja. 784 AC: A Thyatian settler kills a Flaemish lord; war is declared. 784 - 788 AC: The Followers of Flame (the Flaemish) war with other settlers in Glantri. With defeat come the executions of Flaemish lycanthropes who fought against the elven and Thyatian settlers. 785 AC: Battle of Braejr; the settlers are driven south of the Vesubia by the Flaemish. 786 AC: An Alphatian wizard named Halzunthram arrives in Flaemish lands and helps the humans and elves there against the Flaems. 788 AC: Once the Flaems are conquered at the Battle of Braastar, Halzunthram captures the council and declares this land to be a protectorate of Alphatia; war breaks out again. The elves become independent and the Flaemish revolt. Many Flaemish lycanthropes fight and die in the ensuing rebellion. 793 AC: Rajadhiraja Hansh ul Nervi is found dead after eating a poisoned fig. His son Ramanan takes the throne. 800 AC: Birth of Suleiman Al-Kalim, a great philosopher and warlord of the desert nomads of Ylarum. Orcwars. Desperate Broken Lands hordes ravage neighboring nations for food, treasure, or shelter. Caravans systematically plundered. Cities torched. Agitation in Darokin. Devilfish appear in the Sunlit Sea. War breaks out between them and Undersea, characterized by localized skirmishes and terrorist attacks by the devilfish. 802 AC: A gold rush in Glantri brings many Rockhome dwarves into that nation. A plague sent by the orcish Immortal Yagrai spreads into Glantri, and the Glantrians are convinced that the dwarves are responsible, resulting in a vicious war on the dwarfs by the people of Glantri. Lycanthropes seem peculiarly susceptible to the plague - few werecreatures survive. 805 AC: Dwarves fleeing the anti-dwarf policies of Glantri establish small communities in the mountains of Nagpuri, Gunjab, and Peshmir. 812 AC: Rajadhiraja Ramanan ul Nervi dies after eating a bowl of figs. His eldest son, Kulpakh, assumes the throne, claiming his father's death is the result of Immortal justice. Within a week, Kulpakh begins issuing bizarre proclamations - exhorting the Jadugeryas to find a way to make it snow in the Great Waste, proclaiming all Rishiyas to be vampires feeding on the people of Sind, and insisting all animals be set free of their bondage and not asked to do man's work. Within a month, Kulpakh dies when a ceremonial elephant freed to wander the streets runs amok and tramples him. Kulpakh's brother Balin, barely in his twenties, takes the throne. 814 AC: A massive Schattenalfen invasion of the Azcan empire is turned back at the Battle of Huixtla. 815 AC: The Azcan attempt to carry the war onto the Schattenalfen lands ends in ambush and disaster at the Battle of Wondyviel. 825 AC: Al-Kalim captures the village of Ylarum and establishes it as his tribal seat. 826 AC: Al-Kalim captures Cinsa-Men-Noo, Parsa, and Cresiphon, and unites the Makistani and Alasiyan tribes under the banner of the Eternal Truth. 827 AC: Campaign against Alphatian overlords in Ylarum ends with successful siege of Jaboor, removing Alphatian presence in region. 828 AC: Lord Alexander Glantri, of Thyatian descent, captures Halzunthram and confirms the land's independence from Alphatia. The population names the land Glantri in his honor. Principalities of Glantri expel all dwarves, some of whom migrate to Darokin. They depart on Minrothad ships to join the craftsmen of the Minrothad Isles; they settle on Fortress Island. 829 AC: Lord Glantri founds the Republic of Glantri and reforms the council. 830 AC: The Ylarum campaign against the Thyatian overlords ends with the successful siege of Tameronikas, driving Thyatian influence from the region. 831 AC: Founding of the Confederated Tribes of the Emirates of Ylarum. 832 AC: Rajadhiraja Balin ul Nervi drowns in the Asanda's flood waters while trying to rescue a child caught in the churning river. His eighteen-year-old daughter (and only heir) Nitara ul Nervi claims the throne of Sind and the title of Ranidhiraja. After a rocky start - plagued with assassinations and failed coups - her rule stabilizes into fifty years of peace and prosperity. 835 AC: Suleiman Al-Kalim's pilgrimage to the Immortals. Al-Kalim begins quest on the Path of the Dynast. 841 AC: The dwarven port of Stronghold is established on Fortress Island in Minrothad. 845 AC: Construction begins on the School of Magic in Glantri. 846 AC: Orc horde from the Broken Lands loots Ardelphia, utterly destroying the city. 850 - 862 AC: The Council of Minrothad refines government structure and establishes office of ruling guild master. The first ruling guild master, Missan Meditor, is appointed. Severe laws restricting immigration are passed. 855 AC: Suleiman Al-Kalim composes the Nahmeh, an important work of Ylari religious thought. 858 AC: Nobility is reserved for wizards only in Glantri. Council members gain the hereditary title of Prince. Establishment of the Eternal University and Council of Preceptors in Ylarum. 859 AC: Illegal Glantrian nobles are expelled and the wizards crush a minor rebellion. 860 AC: Suleiman Al-Kalim retires from public life. 875 AC: Construction is completed on the School of Magic. 880 AC: Fire Island is declared off limits to all shipping. The Minrothad thieves' guild secretly establishes Cove Haven as a pirate base on this island. 882 AC: Ranidhiraja Nitara ul Nervi abdicates the throne of Sind in favor of her grandson, Anandarun ul Nervi. Nitara then embarks on a ship bound for Alphatia, ostensibly to tour Floating Ar and other wonders of the world. She doesn't return. 889 AC: Rajadhiraja Anandarun ul Nervi is assassinated, leaving no heirs. Those close to him suspect the rajah of Nagpuri, but can present no proof. Vadin, Kulpakh ul Nervi's great-grandson, seizes the throne. 890 AC: Ruling Minrothad guild master Kitrina Meditor passes Isolation Act prohibiting immigration and most visitors to Minrothad. 896 AC: Chateau d'Ambreville disappears from New Averoigne in Glantri without a trace, taking the d'Ambrevilles with it. 897 AC: The Srinivasans of Sandapur petition Rajadhiraja Vadin ul Nervi to allow them to secede from Nandin-ruled Jhengal, claiming incompetence on the part of the rajah of Jhengal. Amid rumors of graft, bribery, and corruption, the Rajadhiraja orders Jhengal divided into East Jhengal (named Azadgal by its new rajah) and West Jhengal (stubbornly called "Jhengal" by its inhabitants). 898 AC: New immigration wave to Glantri. The population mixes freely, and frictions decrease. 900 AC: Marilenev is a flourishing trade village of 500. The Empire of Thyatis moves on Marilenev, conquers it, and claims all of the Traladara region as a Thyatian protectorate. Marilenev is renamed "Specularum." Many refugees from Traladara flee to Darokin. The Thyatians also conquer several areas of the Isle of Dawn, and build and settle the city of Oceansend in Norwold. North Isle is annexed by Minrothad. The refuge colony of Gapton is established there. Suleiman Al-Kalim falsely spreads reports of his death to conceal his disappearance as he continues his quest for Immortality. A new wave of colonists begins to reach the eastern Savage Coast, including people from Ylaruam, Yavdlom, and the Thyatian Empire. They bring feudalism and class structure. Adventurers begin to establish domains that eventually develop into the Savage Baronies, and absorb the elven, dwarven, and human cultures already in the region. Settlers discover the Red Curse, but decide to stay anyway. A few halflings also begin to arrive on the Savage Coast, and are absorbed into local cultures. (RS) 901 AC: Kers Zeberdesti, a Jadugerya claiming to be Anandarun ul Nervi's illegitimate son, heads a successful coup against Rajadhiraja Vadin ul Nervi. Kers takes the throne, as well as the ul Nervi name. 902 AC: The Barony of Narvaez is founded along the Savage Coast by an expedition of Ispan people from the distant Thyatian Empire. Narvaez claims a great deal of land, from the Claw Peninsula to the Bay of the Siren (Baia da Sereia), including land already occupied by human, elven, dwarven, and tortle inhabitants. (RS) 903 AC: The Dominion of Vilaverde is founded by Ispans and people from Yavdlom. (RS) 905 AC: Nueva Esperanza (New Hope) declares independence from Narvaez. (RS) 906 AC: Dwarves and elves in lands claimed by Narvaez declare themselves the Barony of Montoya. (RS) 908 AC: The State of Copetez is founded in the plains of the eastern Savage Coast. (RS) 909 AC: The Barony of Montejo is founded inland from Narvaez; the Dominion of Tanaka is founded by people from Yavdlom. (RS) 913 AC: Rajadhiraja Kers ul Nervi dies in a blazing fire - apparently the result of a magical experiment gone awry - - that destroys the royal palace and much of Sayr Ulan. His son Darshan becomes Rajadhiraja, and orders the palace rebuild. The architectural plans call for an artificial lake with the splendid new palace built on an island in its center. The Barony of Narvaez splits between two heirs; the northern section remains Narvaez, and the southern portion becomes the Barony of Sotto. (RS) 915 AC: A Himaya named Sarad Ylayci seizes the throne in a bloody coup. He claims to be yet another illegitimate son of Anandarun ul Nervi. Once his power is secure, he orders construction on the palace continued. Like Kers Zeberdesti, Sarad takes the ul Nervi name as well as the throne. The State of Aranjuez is founded in the plains near Montejo. (RS) 916 AC: The Barony of Cristobal is founded several miles north of Narvaez. (RS) 920 AC: The war between the Kingdom of Undersea and the devilfish ends indecisively. Economic agreement signed between Glantri and Darokin, allowing free passage for all merchant caravans. Business is booming in Glantri City. 921 AC: The inland State of Escudor breaks from Sotto. (RS) 926 AC: The Barony of Rivera is founded within Sotto, causing a small civil war; Rivera achieves independence. (RS) 927 AC: The Great Merger. Darokin's largest and richest merchant families agree on a central government for the entire country. Charles Mauntea picked to lead Darokin, beginning the reign of the Merchant Kings. 929 AC: The State of Texeiras is founded along the eastern part of the Bay of the Siren. (RS) 930 AC: The Barony of Marino declares independence from Narvaez, claiming the western shores of the Bay of the Siren. (RS) 931 AC: A /cinnabryl/ mine is discovered near Nueva Esperanza. Sages discover its protective value when used against those affected by the Red Curse, but others discover that it harms those unaffected by the curse. /Cinnabryl/ is known, but not generally coveted. At this time, depleted /cinnabryl/ is discarded after use. (RS) 932 AC: Lydia Mauntea takes over rulership of Darokin after the death of her husband, Charles. She assumes the title "Chancellor". 934 AC: Chancellor Mauntea calls the Second Great Merchants' Council in Darokin. Many of the reforms started in 927 are finalized, including the election of a new president upon the death of the current leader by a standing Council of 15 major merchants. 934 AC: The Barony of Gargon~a is founded in western Sotto; after a short civil war, Gargon~a is granted independence. (RS) 935 AC: The Barony of Quimeras declares independence from Narvaez. (RS) 936 AC: Sotto declares war on Gargon~a; after a few months, Gargon~a conquers Sotto and absorbs all but the southern portion, which organizes into the State of Almarron. The official name of the culture of all Savage Baronies except Vilaverde and Texeiras is changed from Ispan to Espan; the language spoken is Espa. (RS) 937 AC: Narvaez attacks Quimeras and Montoya, and reabsorbs both after a short war. (RS) 939 AC: Rulership of Sind passes to Timin ul Nervi when his father, Rajadhiraja Sarad ul Nervi, dies in bed. To encourage internal consolidation, Almarron strikes south and takes over Nueva Esperanza and surrounding territories. (RS) 940 AC: All Minrothad trading vessels are now captained by merchant-princes and carry marines. A boatload of refugees from the Stonecarver culture, driven ashore by a titanic hurricane onto Azcan lands, found the town of Colima. The Barony of Alcazar is founded near Cristobal. (RS) 941 AC: The Barony of Torreon is founded south of Cristobal and Alcazar. (RS) 942 AC: The Azcans defeat the Schattenalfen at the Battle of Ploiec, and are consequently able to maintain the Tepetitlan gold mines. A human smith in Torreon experiments with depleted /cinnabryl/; she discovers its usefulness and names the substance /red steel/. A few small weapons of /red steel/ are produced. (RS) 947 AC: The State of Bigotillos is founded north of Copetez. (RS) 948 AC: Stefan Karameikos III born. Dwarves near Nueva Esperanza begin experimenting with /steel seed/ found in the local /cinnabryl/ mine. When they accidentally mix it with /vermeil/, they stumble upon the formula for /smoke powder/. They begin searching for ways to use the new substance. (RS) 949 AC: Birth of Moctitlapac, the current Tlatoani (Emperor) of the Azcan Empire. Vardon Kalimi named Chancellor of Darokin after the death of Lydia Mauntea. Zyndryl, an Alphatian nobleman, founds Seashield. 950 AC: Minrothad signs neutrality pacts with most mainland countries. A small but powerful army of Hattian clerics of the Immortal Vanya conquer the Heldannic Territories. The Nordhartar Defense League is formed at the Council of Soderfjord, creating the Soderfjord Jarldoms. Treaties with Vestland and Ylarum aid Soderfjord in securing Overland Trade Route through Castellan and challenge Ostland to desist coastal raiding. Ostland in turn allies with Thyatian Empire. 951 AC: A pet tiger seriously mauls Rajadhiraja Timin ul Nervi. Although he survives, Timin is crippled and abdicates the throne in favor of his son Kapil. The new Rajadhiraja is only sixteen years old, but quickly proves himself a capable leader in repelling the worst humanoid raids known this century. The Barony of Babosas is founded east of Vilaverde. (RS) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:32:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 6/8 957 AC: The first arquebus is constructed in Nueva Esperanza; a function for /smoke powder/ has been found, but it is rarely used because of the dangers. (RS) 958 AC: Texeiras conquers the Barony of Marino and the Dominion of Tanaka. (RS) 959 AC: Alphatia begins another direct war upon Thyatis. 960 AC: The Alphatian assault forces reach Thyatis City and kill the Thyatian emperor, but are repelled by a counterattack led by Thincol the Brave, a famous gladiator. 962 AC: The Barony of Los Elegidos is founded north of Torreon, Alcazar, and Cristobal. (RS) 963 AC: The Azcans discover the Stonecarvers at Colima, and send a small troop to wipe them out. The Colimans prevail, however, and maintain their way of life. Yazi gnolls attack Saragon and Aranjuez. (RS) 965 AC: Kitrina Meditor, ruling guildmaster of Minrothad, is assassinated. The council of guild Leaders acts as regent until Oran Meditor comes of age. Prince Haldemar of Haaken begins his voyage on the Princess Ark, discovering the southern polar opening into the Hollow World and the invisible moon, Myoshima. 966 AC: Montejo and Aranjuez unite diplomatically to form the Barony of Saragon. (RS) 967 AC: The Barony of Morales is founded just north of Torreon, between Cristobal and Alcazar. (RS) 968 AC: Torreon wars on its neighbors, conquering and absorbing Morales and Alcazar; Cristobal and Elegidos are weakened but do not fall. Elite Torreoner warriors use swords of /red steel/, the first recorded instance of that metal's use in a large battle. (RS) 969 AC: Torreon discovers deposits of /cinnabryl/ in Terra Vermelha, and moves to take over those lands; to forestall a possible war over mining rights, diplomats gather and form the Treaty of Tampicos, which is signed by Torreon, Vilaverde, Texeiras, and Hule. (RS) 970 AC: Duke Stefan Karameikos III trades his ancestral lands (the Duchy of Machetos) to Emperor Thincol for independent rulership of Traladara, which is renamed the Grand Duchy of Karameikos. Duke Stefan sails to and takes possession of his duchy, then begins parceling out land and titles to his Thyatian followers. He begins building roads across the Duchy and a strong military to protect it. Elegidos disappears without a trace. (RS) 971 AC: Corwyn Hoff named Chancellor of Darokin after the resignation of Kalimi. Babosas is conquered and absorbed by Hule. (RS) 972 AC: Moctitlapac is installed as Tlatoani - Emperor of the Azcans. 975 AC: Rypien Hallonica names Chancellor of Darokin after the death of Hoff. King Thar unites Broken Lands, threatening Darokin commerce. Enforces Tharian Code of Conduct. The Legion is created. Thyatis frowns at the military threat. The wheel-lock pistols is developed in Nueva Esperanza. Certain leaders, including a warrior named Cimmaron, encourage the secret production of the weapon. (RS) 977 AC: Almarron conquers and absorbs Escudor, then turns north and initiates hostilities with Gargon~a and Rivera. (RS) 978 AC: To help defend itself from Almarron, Rivera agrees to be absorbed into Gargon~a. While Almarron is distracted, Nueva Esperanza begins hostilities; Cimmaron's pistoleers make quite an impression. (RS) The Heldannic explorers of the Hollow World become aware of the Oostdok dirigibles and decide that they would nicely complement their fleet of Warbirds. 979 AC: The d'Ambrevilles and their estate return to New Averoigne. Chateau d'Ambreville is destroyed, and the House of Sylaire erected in its place. Sire Malachie du Marais and Dame Genevieve de Sephora enter Glantri from Old Averoigne. An epidemic of wolf lycanthropy begins. Duke Stefan Karameikos marries Lady Olivia Prothemian. Devilfish resume their attacks on the Kingdom of Undersea. The revolution in Nueva Esperanza continues, led by General Cimmaron. Almarron and Gargon~a end hostilities, and both ratify the Treaty of Tampicos. (RS) 980 AC: Lycanthropes are again discovered in Minrothad and in Undersea; fear spreads that more may have escaped the Silver Purge (443-445 AC). Devil swine and wererats seem particularly numerous. Weresharks reappear in Undersea. Lady Adriana Karameikos born. Armed with a wheel-lock pistol and a /red steel/ sword, General Cimmaron leads his forces to victory over troops from Almarron at the Battle of Hondo; his followers declare him Earl Cimmaron, and Nueva Esperanza becomes the center of the newly independent Cimmaron County. Dissatisfied with recent leadership, the people of Almarron revolt against their leader and overthrow him. Making use of old Traladaran philosophies, they establish a democracy. (RS) 981 AC: Cristobal relinquishes claims on its holdings, except for one tower and a few square miles of land; the Lord of Torre Cristobal gives up the title "Baron" but maintains independence from other powers. (RS) 982 AC: Sire Malachie du Marais wins control of the Barony of Morlay deep within the Valley of Wolves, in Glantri. Lord Justin Karameikos born. 984 AC: Saragon ratifies the Treaty of Tampicos. (RS) 985 AC: Founding of the Canine Protection Society in Glantri. Copetez and Bigotillos unite through marriage; the lands are merged to form the State of Guadalante. Guadalante ratifies the Treaty of Tampicos. (RS) 986 AC: Lord Valen Karameikos born. Don~a Esperanza comes to power in Gargon~a and leads her state into peace, beginning a policy of neutrality regarding all the other Savage baronies. (RS) 988 AC: After Hallonica's death, the Merchant's Council names Corwyn Mauntea, great-grandson of Charles and Lydia, president of Darokin. 989 AC: Oran Meditor takes office as ruling guildmaster of Minrothad, instituting reforms. The Five Shires start clashing with the Black Eagle Barony. 990 AC: Cimmaron ratifies the Treaty of Tampicos. (RS) 991 AC: Oran Meditor rescinds the Isolation Act and opens Minrothad to outside contact. 992 AC: Rajadhiraja Kapil ul Nervi dies of injuries sustained while battling a blue dragon that had plagued Baratkand. A grandson, Chandra ul Nervi, becomes Rajadhiraja. The Treaty of Cortesillas, between Guadalante and Saragon, solves the question of watering rights for cattle between the two nations. (RS) 994 AC: Almarron faces a time of troubles. An opportunist seizes control of the state and declares himself dictator of the nation. (RS) 995 AC: First assassination attempt on Oran Meditor. Clan Kasan is behind the attempt and is removed from control of the water elf guild. Clan Elsan is promoted to replace Clan Kasan. 997 AC: /Cinnabryl/ is discovered in Slagovich; it is mined and traded to Torreon, Texeiras, and Cimmaron for /red steel/. (RS) 998 AC: Second assassination attempt on Oran Meditor. The assassin is believed to be a hired wizard from Glantri. Undead are reported in the waters to the south. 999 AC: The first vial of /crimson essence/ is produced by an alchemist in Saragon. The secret spreads to a group of adventurers, who become the first of the Inheritors. Some of the Inheritors rise to power in the Brotherhood of Order and the Friends of Freedom. To balance them, other Inheritors join the Neutral Alliance. (RS) 1000 AC: Minrothad celebrates 150 years of nationhood. Oran Meditor makes public appearances to stop rumors of his continued ill health. In Glantri, the Brotherhood of Free Wolves is pressing hard for their own Principality under the leadership of Sire Malachie du Marais, Baron of Morlay. Werecreatures in the southern waters of Undersea grow in numbers and strength. Vestland is a modern nation and a strong, independent trading partner with the nations of Mystara. Ostland is a powerful, independent ally of Thyatis, aggressive and belligerent, barbaric in culture and religious practices. Soderfjord is a weak alliance of feuding minor jarls, victimized by giantish clans and Ostland pirates. Ylarum is under governance of sultans from Preceptors faction of Al-Kalim's descendants. Its culture and economy flourishes. Shark-kin take up arms against the land dwellers; devilfish increase their attacks on Undersea; the numbers of undead and werecreatures in the southern waters grows at an alarming rate. Everast XV is on the throne of Rockhome. Prince Haldemar of Alphatia foils a plot by the Rajah of Jaibul to add Putnabad to the Rajahstan of Jaibul. The Immortals begin a conflict that eventually begins to affect mortals throughout the world. Aegos becomes the site for an Alphatian project to dig a pit through Mystara's mantle into the Hollow World. 1001 AC: Political lobbyists introduce a bill allowing the practice of clerical magic in Glantri under very strict conditions. Clerics must obtain a letter of sanction from the ruler of the dominion they wish to practice clerical magic, and the ruler has free rein over the terms of the sanction - fees imposed, types of magic allowed (healing only, etc.), expiration of the letter, and so forth. Clerics are still forbidden to preach their beliefs, regardless of any letters of sanction, and only Parliament of the Council of Princes may grant a letter of sanction to clerics operating within the free territories of Glantri. The Council of Princes is evenly split over the matter, and the measure goes to the House of Lords at Parliament. Sire Malachie du Marais votes against it, but the measure passes. The White Wolf prepares for an infestation of lycanthropy-fighting clerics. The Inheritors face internal conflicts and reorganize the aligned societies (the Brotherhood of Order, the Neutral Alliance, and the Friends of Freedom) into the three Orders of the Inheritors (the Order of the Ruby, the Order of Crimson, and the Order of the Flame). (RS) 1002 AC: Sire Malachie learns of an enormous silver deposit in the bedrock beneath le Chateau de Malinbois. This is a serious obstacle to his plans to control Malinbois. 1003 AC: The Council of Princes approves and Act of Enfiefment in the economically depressed area of Bramyra, ending years of chaotic contests for control of the area. 1004 AC: A gold strike in les Montagnes Noires leads to a rapid influx of population with the Valley of Wolves in Glantri. Sire Malachie must contend with the fact that the majority of the newcomers are unwanted - they put a great strain on the taxed natural resources of the valley, strip the mountains of precious minerals Sire Malachie hoped to control for himself, and clash with the resident populations (both werewolves and non-lycanthropes). The Council of Princes approves an Act of Enfiefment in the area of Fort Sablestone. Sire Malachie attempts to capitalize on the Council of Prince's current willingness to create new Principalities. The White Wolf is also amused at this - if the Council grants an Act of Enfiefment in the Valley of Wolves, it will become the thirteenth Principality. Spring: Thyatis city suffers an enormous riot by the poorer citizens, who have seen a steady decline in the quality and quantity of free bread passed out by the officials. This has little effect on anyone not in - or under - Thyatis city. The wererats of Thyatis participate in the riot, as they depend on the free bread almost as much as Thyatis' poor do. Spring: Both Alphatia's mages and Thyatis's military forces become more pushy and uptight than usual. Spring: An Alphatian elf, Troikithus, uncovers evidence of the Brotherhood of the Radiance, and reports it to Empress Eriadna. A week later, his body is found floating in one of Glantri City's canals. Summer: Relations between Glantri and the Empire of Alphatia become strained, as the Alphatian Council of Wizards accuses the Glantrian Great School of Magic of harboring followers of the Entropic Immortals and using forbidden, evil magics. Spies and counter-spies make matters worse. Prince Etienne d'Ambreville is swept up in the politics and espionage between the two magocracies. Summer: Clerical missionaries of the Immortal Vanya from the Heldann Territories are slaughtered while traveling through the Ethengar Khanates. Fall: Several Glantrian nobles having dinner together are assassinated by a bombardment of lightning bolts, fire balls, and other powerful magics. The sole survivor, Prince Innocenti di Malapietra, testifies the killers were wearing Alphatian clothing. Fall: Thyatis reinforces Glantri's demand to surrender the assassins, to everyone's surprise. Fall: Without benefit of a declaration of war, the Heldannic Knights send several punitive raids into Ethengar, launching deadly lance-cavalry attacks against Ethengarian encampments and slaughtering every last man, woman, and child encountered. Fall: Humanoids from the Black Mountains invade Graakhalia in force. The Master's spies learned of the routes through Graakhalia to tunnels beneath Sind; his agents made sure the humanoids heard there was rich plunder to be had beneath the Plain of Fire. The Graakhalians fight fiercely, then desperately, as band after band of orcs, goblins, bugbears, hobgoblins, and other humanoids press deeper into Graakhalia's labyrinths. Fall: A band of Glantrians are sentenced to death for the arson of dozens of temples of the Immortal Asterius. Winter: Glantrian adventurers escaping from Alphatia start a fire in Aasla as a distraction, which grows into a firestorm and devastates the city. Winter: Humanoids secure Graahkalia's upper levels against the elves and gnolls, paving the way for the Master of Hule's plot to seize Sind. Hulean agents struggle to consolidate the bickering humanoids into an army that can hold Graakhalia while the Master moves additional forces into place. Winter: Kiritan ul Nervi, egged on by Hulean agents, stages a coup against his brother, Rajadhiraja Chandra ul Nervi. The counter-uprising of Sind's people is met by thousands of humanoids and brigands appearing out of the earth itself to fight on the side of the new Rajadhiraja. More humanoids pour into Sind from the Plain of Fire, reinforced by Urduk nomads and a tribe of ogres from the Sind Desert. The civil war sets rajah against rajah as factions fight for control. Kiritan's forces quickly gain control of Sayr Ulan. Many loyalist Sindhis die protecting their ruler from assassins, and the Rajadhiraja flees to Ulimwengu. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:35:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 7/8 1005 AC: The Council of Princes in Glantri approves an Act of Enfiefment for la Vallee des Loups in Favor of Sire Malachie du Marais. Prompted by attacks from Bellayne, the goblinoids of the Yazak steppes begin unifying. Robrenn attacks and irritates the Yazi goblinoids. (RS) An internal holy war begins in Narvaez. The church of Narvaez unifies the factions by providing an external enemy: the other Savage Baronies. Narvaez carries its Inquisition to the other Baronies. (RS) Spring: Empress Eriadna of Alphatia issues a proclamation of war against Glantri. In return, Glantri, backed by the Empire of Thyatis and the Heldann Freeholds, declares war on Alphatia. Spring: Rajadhiraja Kiritan ul Nervi consolidates his position as Sind's new ruler. He seems blind to the fact that he's merely a puppet, and that the Master of Hule pulls his strings. Many rajahs accept the situation, seeing opportunities to increase their own power. Only Rani Drisana of Jalawar, Rajah Mohan of Baratkand, and Maharajah Kami of Peshmir refuse to recognize Kiritan's claim to the crown. Summer: Alphatia start building up its forces in preparation for eliminating the Empire of Thyatis as an obstacle to invading Glantri. Summer: The three rajahs of Sind who refuse to acknowledge Kiritan as Rajadhiraja attempt to overthrow the usurper. Their efforts are hampered by the fact that their mumlykets are separated by mumlykets whose rulers have sworn obedience to Kiritan. Opposed from without by Kiritan's Hule-backed forces and from within by spies and stooges, the attempted coup fails miserably. Maharajah Kabir Rudraksha of Kadesh seizes the opportunity to invade Peshmir, taking 87-year-old Maharajah Kami prisoner and setting his son Hara up as Peshmir's new Maharajah. Summer: Alphatian wizards travel secretly to Glantri, and set loose hordes of monsters - many from other planes. Many of these monsters spill over the borders into Sind. Some join the Master's forces; others simply roam about looking for trouble. Fall: In Jalawar, Inay Paramesh, a distant relative of the Madhars overthrows Rani Drisana Madhar. Without the help of Kiritan's elite guard, Inay could not have hoped to succeed. Vijay Niranjan, the rani's half-brother, falls in the fighting, as does Rohit, her first husband. Drisana escapes with her husband Bhagwandas. The two flee to Ulimwengu in search of Rajadhiraja Chandra ul Nervi. Fall: The Alphatians on the Isle of Dawn assault the Fortress of Kendach and the Hold of Fenswatch. After a few weeks, West Portage is taken. Winter: On the trail of rajadhiraja Chandra ul Nervi, Drisana Madhar reaches Ulimwengu. She learns that he passed through Karimari territory on his way to seek help from Yavdlom, then traveled back through hoping to drum up support among the Urduk nomads who did not join the Master's forces. Drisana stays in Ulimwengu, hoping to convince the Karimari to supply warriors, elephants, and triceratops in the event Chandra ul Nervi can form an army to regain his throne. Winter: His power over Sind now relatively secure, the Master convinces Kiritan to invade Darokin. The combined forces of Sind's armies and the Desert Nomads overwhelm Darokin's defenses and drive the Republic's armies before them. Akesoli falls within weeks, and the armies soon reach the city of Darokin itself. A substantial number of weretypes live secretly in Darokin - merchants and adventurers who contracted lycanthropy while abroad. 1006 AC: Torreon, Vilaverde, and Texeiras ally with Narvaez, rather than fight that state. The other five baronies (Guadalante, Cimmaron, Almarron, Saragon, and Gargon~a) ally to fight against the Narvaez alliance. Gauchos and Swashbuckler "freedom fighters" prove effective against the naval power and mercenaries of the Narvaez alliance. (RS) Hule attacks the Savage Baronies. The baronies end their conflict to unite against Hule. (RS) Spring: Glantrian wizard-adventurers travel to Alphatia and harass the nobles there - fire-bombings, hit-and-runs, and the like. Spring: Duke Stefan declares Karameikos independent from Thyatis, now the Kingdom of Karameikos. Spring: Chandra ul Nervi hastily pulls together his own army of Urduk nomads, mercenaries, brigands, and outlaws from the Barren Plains and the Sind Desert to retake Sind while its fighting forces are occupied in Darokin. His ragtag army includes nearly 100 Karimari warriors with their /moto moto rods/ and mounted on elephants and triceratops, a number of Yavdlom warriors disgusted at their nation's policy of non-interference with "destiny", and loyal Sindhis who fled their homes when the civil war broke out. Panicking, Kiritan withdraws his armies from Darokin to meet his brother's threat. Spring: The forces of Karameikos (including some werecreatures, although they try to keep that secret), Alfheim and the Five Shires march to the defense of the city of Darokin. They lift the siege, and over the next few weeks slowly drive back the Desert Nomads. The Master's forces, weakened by their sudden loss of manpower, begin to lose the ground they had gained in Darokin. Summer: As the eastern armies drive the Desert Nomads from Darokin, Kiritan's armies barely manage to hold off Chandra ul Nervi's irregular troops. Disgusted with this turn of events, the Master diverts his reserve forces to reinforce Kiritan's armies - rather than sending them to Darokin as he'd originally planned. The sudden influx of humanoids turns the tide against Chandra ul Nervi. His forces decimated and scattered, the rajadhiraja flees back through Ulimwengu. The Master relinquishes his hold on Darokin, but tightens his grip on Sind. Summer: Days after Chandra ul Nervi's defeat, a devastating meteor sent by the Master of Desert Nomads smashes through the skyshield and slams into the Darokin/Glantri border. The impact creates an enormous crater north of Lake Amsorak. It destroys a mountain range, and raises an impenetrable cloud above the two nations. The resulting earthquake knocks down buildings in Akesoli and devastates the village of Chandbali. The dust cloud rising from the impact is larger than some countries. It covers all of southern Glantri and northern Darokin and extends over northeastern Sind. For days it blocks the sun. When it finally settles, ash and dust cover everything, smothering plants and fouling drinking water. The harvest is ruined, and a winter famine threatens. Fall: The trees of the Canolbarth begin to darken, twist, and mutate, becoming increasingly inhospitable to the elves. Fall: The dwarves of Rockhome, dismayed at the events of the surface world, retreat into their subterranean communities. Fall: The Master of Hule decides that Chandra ul Nervi must be eliminated as a potential threat to the conquest of Sind. He sends ten divisions across the Great Waste to Ulimwengu, certain that 10,000 soldiers would be more than enough to overrun the primitive Karimari forces and drive the deposed ruler out of his hiding place. The few soldiers and humanoids who survive the resulting massacre bring word of Ulimwengu's magical defenses back to Hule. The Master is surprised to learn that the Karimari are far more than they appear. His magics penetrate the illusions that had kept the truth of Shani Kijiji and the Karimari from him. Fall: The Master's attack on Ulimwengu is enough to convince even the most progressive-thinking Karimari to close their borders once more. All refugees are politely asked to leave - immediately. Chandra ul Nervi and Drisana Madha seek shelter among the Yavdlom people. Winter: The Great Khan of Ethengar, whose people have suffered from several savage raids by the Heldannic Knights, invades the Heldann Territories. His forces march straight to the capital, Freiburg, and lay siege to it. Winter: On the Isle of Dawn, the Alphatian army attempts to secure the center of the island, turning its attention to Redstone Castle. Winter: Zealot followers of the "Desert Garden" philosophy of al-Kalim cross the Altan Tepes into northern Thyatis, and take Fort Nikos without a single loss of life on either side. The next day, they seize the town of Biazzan, also without a fight. 1007 AC: Yazi gnolls attack the Savage Baronies, which have been severely weakened by previous conflicts. The Master of Hule sets a curse on his enemies, inflicting floods and other natural disasters on the Savage Baronies. (RS) Spring: The Heldannic Knights and Empire of Thyatis formally sign a treaty of alliance. Summer: King Thar of the Broken Lands leads his humanoid hordes in raids on southern Glantri, finally besieging Glantri City itself. Spring: Kiritan vows to root out the last of his brother's supporters and begins a systematic program of oppression. The Master of Hule and his agents are more than happy to assist. Spring: The Graakhalians stage a last-ditch effort to drive the humanoids from Graakhalia. They're soundly defeated. Nearly half their population has died fighting or of starvation (no time for harvests) since Graakhalia was invaded. The survivors retreat deep underground, into territory hitherto unexplored. Summer: On the Isle of Dawn, the Alphatians take Newkirk in a surprise attack. Within a couple of weeks, Redstone Castle's commanders surrender. Summer: Thousands of humanoids from the Broken Lands move into Glantri and Darokin; some enter northeastern Sind, adding to its misery. A few spill over into Graakhalia. Fall: The Ylari forces in Biazzan decide to withdraw. The entire force slips away before the Thyatians are aware, getting all their people and most of Biazzan's wealth across the mountains safely. Fall: Shadow Elves invade, conquer, and settle Alfheim, transmuting the forest and forcing the Alfheim elves to flee north to Wendar and south to Karameikos. Bands break away to brave the Desert Nomads in search of the long-lost Sheyallia elves. They find no sign of their brethren. Winter: Plague erupts in the Heldann Freeholds, starting in the city of Freiburg. Winter: An elf from Alfheim stumbles on a Sheyallia elf sheltering with a Sindhi family in Baratkand. The two gather together as many elves as they can and enter Graakhalia in search of the scattered Graakhalians. Winter: Ochalea and the Pearl Island capitalize on the war raging between Thyatis and Alphatia to declare their independence. Winter: The elves fleeing southward from Alfheim are trapped by a harsh winter in the icy foothills of the Cruth mountains. 1008 AC: The Savage Baronies again enter into border conflicts. Tortles and other peasants revolt. In Almarron, rebels oust their dictator and install a Baron descended from their former noble rulers. The Colonial Revolt begins, and many colonies rebel against their parent states. Yazak goblinoids attack throughout the Savage Coast. (RS) Countless uprisings, civil unrest, riots, and assassination attempts disturb Kiritan ul Nervi's rule. The Master orders him to tighten his control of his nation or suffer the consequences. Spring: Helskir is overrun by Alphatians, who quickly sweep south and capture the northern 2/3 of the Isle of Dawn. Within a few days, Eruul Zaar is crowned king of Helskir by Empress Eriadna herself. Spring: Military forces from the Five Shires join the army of Darokin to help keep order there and defend Darokin from the humanoids occupying the Great Crater. Spring: The Alfheim elves reach Karameikos, and are ceded land in the east of that kingdom. Summer: Plague spreads throughout the north, reaching Glantri through Ethengar. With little clerical magic to combat it, Glantri's population is devastated. Lycanthropes seem just as susceptible as normal folk, and the Valley of Wolves loses many werewolves. Summer: The many clerics of Heldann are increasingly winning the war against the plague. Healthy combined forces from the Heldannic Knights and Ostland penetrate into the Ethengar Khanates and, at the community of Tromso, massacre some of the armies which attacked their territories. Summer: The Alphatian Naval Fleet sails around the northern end of the Isle of Dawn and engage the Thyatian fleet. Great harm is inflicted by both sides, and eventually the Alphatian navy retreats to the Isle of Dawn. Fall: Ethengarians attack Alfheim elves crossing their territory to reach Wendar in the north. Winter: Glantri is finally recovering from the plague, and are able to drive most of the humanoids out of Glantri into the Great Crater. Thar's hordes now decide to attack Darokin, but are driven back by the armies there. Winter: The Alphatian Navy makes landfall in Ylaruam, at the town of Cubia, two days sailing from the Thyatian border. 1009 AC: Chandra ul Nervi, sick at heart at the abuses his brother has been heaping on the Sindhi people, surrenders himself to an agent of the Master of Hule. he agrees to return as Rajadhiraja - under Hule's control - in order to stop the worst abuses. The Master sees this as a way to quiet Sind's unrest and promptly replaces Kiritan with Chandra ul Nervi. Spring: The Heldannic Knights launch a force to come, somewhat belatedly, to Glantri's rescue. Knights make an epic ride through Rockhome, Ylaruam, and Darokin, joining the Darokin army in time to push Thar's forces down into the Crater. Spring: The Alphatian forces marching in by land slam into Fort Zendrol and capture it. For the first time in decades, Alphatian forces march across the border into mainland Thyatis. Summer: The Alphatian military machine rolls through the Thyatian duchy of Tel Akbir. Fall: The second group of Alfheim elves leaves the northern Glantrian mountains and enters the nation of Wendar. The Glantrian plague follows them there. Fall: Thyatis, hard-pressed by the Alphatian military juggernaut, sues Empress Eriadna for peace. Fall: A storm of tremendous force deluges the Alphatian city of Sundsvall with rain, hail, and lightning - and drains the world of magic. For an entire week, no magic works, either on Mystara or in the Hollow World. Lycanthropes can no longer transform and are stuck in whatever form they were in when the storm struck. When magic returns, so does lycanthropy and its effects. The storm and its after-effects were caused by an Immortal artifact, the Nucleus of the Spheres, the source of the radiance, a magical power unique to Glantri. Fall: Magic stops working, and Yazak goblinoids sack the capitol of Herath. Though magic is restored a few days later, the Red Curse has spread across the coast. Inheritors of the baronies begin introducing /cinnabryl/ throughout the coast, while taking control of most of the /cinnabryl/ mines as well. (RS) Winter: The Thousand Wizards of Alphatia teleport to the skies over Glantri City and begin a magical bombardment. The Nucleus of the Spheres is destroyed and Glantri is devastated. Immediately afterward, earthquakes rock Alphatia, and the continent sinks deep beneath the sea. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #37 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #38 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Saturday, 13 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 038 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Daniel Boese Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:35:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 8/8 1010 AC: The nations of the Known World begin the long, difficult process of rebuilding. In Glantri, the Principality of Fenswick is enfeoffed. Sind is still occupied by the Master's forces. Chandra ul Nervi is a virtual prisoner in his palace; the rajahs and maharajahs are no more than puppet rulers. The Master licks his wounds and launches more attacks against Darokin - from the sea. Three Alphatian mages posing as magical spirits invade the Atruaghin Plateau and subjugate the Clans. Dwarves stumble upon the city of Oenkmar. Unusual amounts of snow runoff from the mountains flood Graakhalia, Darokin, and the Five Shires. The shadow elves in Aengmor (former Alfheim) realize that without the Alfheim elves' maintenance spells, their forest will die. In desperation, they enlist the help of elves in Norwold in developing spells similar to those spells the Alfheim elves had used. Shadow Elves exploring the lower crust discover the Schattenalfen elves of the Hollow World and open diplomatic relations with their long-lost relatives. The Great Khan of Ethengar attacks the Heldannic Territories, hoping for a quick victory while the Heldannic forces are occupied with conquering Landfall and other matters. Months of besieging Grauenberg, skirmishing with Heldannic troops, and raiding Heldannic settlements result in very little gain for Moglai Khan. Changing tactics, he proposes peace with the Heldanners, and they become uneasy allies. Thyatis drives hard into the Alphatian regions of the Isle of Dawn, retaking all of the Isle except Helskir and Thothia. Thyatis also drives Ylaruam's small forces from its territory on Brun. Darokin, The Five Shires, Ylaruam, Rockhome, and Karameikos form the Western Defense League, each pledging to aid any of the League's members in time of war or disaster. Overcrowding among the Hollow World Jennites contributes to the rapid spread of a disease that the Jennite clerics cannot halt. A Nithian healer named Tibnuhati cures the plague before it devastates the Jennite herds, but there is no guarantee the plague will not strike again. The Malpheggi Lizard Men suffer an epidemic that reminds them of the Nithian disease that had once destroyed their people. The epidemic kills a thousand lizard men. Thaumont 25: The Immortals awake Alphatia in the Hollow World. Kaldmont: The Five Shires declare war on the Black Eagle Barony and march in to free its oppressed people. 1011 AC: New Kolland becomes the first humanoid principality in Glantri. Thar allies himself with King Alebane of Ogremoor to invade Rockhome while the dwarves are caught in a civil war. The campaign is a disaster; in disgrace, Thar flees to the Makkres Mountains of Vestland. Thothia retaliates against Thyatis. Rallying the "Alphatian Irregulars" (divisions of the fragmented Alphatian military), Pharaoh Ramenhotep pushes the Thyatian armies out of Thothia, through Trikelios, and all the way to Ekto. The Floating continent of Alphatia manages to drive the Heldannic Knights from the Hollow World. Nuwmont: The Five Shires capture Ludwig von Hendriks, the Black Eagle Baron. 1012 AC: Specularum, Karameikos is renamed to Mirros. Subtle events mold a darker, more sinister Glantri. The Great Waste is primarily home to creatures loyal to the Master of Hule and to people trying desperately to survive in spite of the invaders. 1020 AC: Joint Darokinian and Thyatian operations to protect their interests. All-out war pits humans vs. orcs. 1050 AC: Ylarum falls under the rule of Kin faction sultans. Its culture and economy flourishes, but its values decline, and there is a resurgence of traditional tribal enmities. 1150 AC: The deaths of High King Maramet of Vestland and his sole heir throw the nation into a political turmoil. The Sorona, the enchanted crown of Vestland, is sought by various factions hoping to claim the throne. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:52:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timelines (was: Timeline) > I would like to see > published modules that take place in that timeline. I do not mind > seeing the current history of Mystara taking place, i'm not overly fond > of it either but why not do both. Actually, as far as I can tell, nearly all of the B, X, CM, etc. modules take place somewhere in 900-1000 AC. I'm not sure if anybody's narrowed it down any closer for any of them though.. (Except X13, set in 1150 AC.) > Mystara with the DA series has already been split into > two distinct playable timelines, so besides the Chronomancer supplement > there is already a working time travel mechanism in the Mystara game > world. Also the Hollow world concept can be altered to simply have > camapigns in those actual historic settings that they describe and without > the compulsions and hindrances that are put upon them by the immortals to > resist cultural change. Hey, you stole my suggestion! :) Don't forget the Nightwail/rage/howl series, where the PCs get to shoot down the timestream. > I am a big fan of "what ifs" so anyone who wants to work out > a Mystara that didn't have a WotI i'd be happy to participate. Would the Master still invade Sind, then Darokin? If so and he's beaten back, how about that meteor? :) > As for > the world of Mystara without a blackmoor blowup , I would like to hear > what people would feel might happen. And if you care to email me, I'll incorporate any suggestions into an Alternate Timelines list. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 14:20:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timelines (was: Timeline) - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- I am a big fan of "what ifs" so anyone who wants to work out a Mystara that didn't have a WotI i'd be happy to participate. As for the world of Mystara without a blackmoor blowup , I would like to hear what people would feel might happen. Jason Zavoda Well, I won't get my campaign timeline anywhere near WOTI for a long while, so that's out for me, but I liked Alphatia and Glantri the way they were, and wouldn't want to lose them. As for Blackmoor, I like the idea of it surviving in some respect. I have a feeling it would continue along in the vein of the original Blackmoor campaign. For inspiration, see the original TSR Blackmoor supplement for more of the 'techno-magic' mix (it seemed somewhat watered down in the DA version, to me) (Temple of the Frog, I mean) . Also see the Judges Guild Blackmoor supplement, for Arneson's actual notes , encounter tables, items, characters, political entities etc. He freely mixed technology in, as was much more common in the early days of D&D. Robots, phasers etc, in a light-hearted style of play. I mean, his entries in that supplement for Castle Blackmoor included a grand escalator/staircase direct to the nastiest levels of the dungeon, elven ticket-takers at the gates, and similar hooliganism. Maybe Fineous Fingers is also a similar mood , or Yamara; free mixture of humor and various genres. Not for everyone, and not necessarily for a steady diet. But fun, and nostalgic. It _would_ wreak havoc on my campaign's history (on its very existence!) for Blackmoor not to explode, but as an alternate timeline, created as a result of PC interaction , it might be fun! (You may recall from my earliest posts that I use the Mystara Gazetteers as the 'future' of my main campaign, and that I use the explosion as an excuse to transform my planet into the 'hollow world' configuration.) Shelby ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 12:58:37 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timelines (was: Timeline) > > > I would like to see > > published modules that take place in that timeline. I do not mind > > seeing the current history of Mystara taking place, i'm not overly fond > > of it either but why not do both. > Actually, as far as I can tell, nearly all of the B, X, CM, etc. modules > take place somewhere in 900-1000 AC. I'm not sure if anybody's narrowed > it down any closer for any of them though.. (Except X13, set in 1150 AC.) M5, Talons of Night takes place in AC 1002 -- it describes the events that lead to "Prince Krathor" taking the throne as Ramenhotep the current. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 14:38:03 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 3/8 > 795 BC: Atruaghin recalls the memory of that great > plateau that once stood in the lands of his people. Using > magics and powers that he has acquired from his travels > throughout the Known and Hollow Worlds, he calls it back into > existence that the Children of Atruaghin might never again fear > invasion. Atruaghin, having completed the Path of the Polymath, > becomes an Immortal in the Sphere of Thought in recognition of > his lifelong struggle against entropy. Uh ... the Path of the Polymath will lead you to the Sphere of Matter. Atruaghin is an Immortal of the sphere of Matter (according to the Codex of the Immortals) ... granted, he also did quite a bit that seems to be following the Path of the Paragon (certainly changed his lands features completely ...) > 492 BC: At the battle of Sardal Pass, they are routed, > the orcs utterly massacred. Ubdala dies. Hordes routed south > and west, crowding Cruth mountains and Altan Tepes. Gnomes > kicked out. As I recall, this is the incident which caused the origin of the Krugel Orcs of the Hollow World, which should be noted. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 14:42:44 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 4/8 Sometime between the arrival of the Flaem and the following date (500 AC), the events of the Dragons of Mystara trilogy of novels (Dragonlord of Mystara, Dragonking of Mystara, and the forthcoming Dragonmage of Mystara) occur. > 500 AC: Thyatian and Alphatian colonies in Ylarum > begin what will become three centuries of warfare. The Alasiyan > tribes are constantly feuding. > Conflict between Alphatian and Thyatian empires begins; > Minroth traders maintain neutrality and dominate merchant > shipping for both sides. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 14:49:43 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 5/8 > 827 AC: Campaign against Alphatian overlords in Ylarum > ends with successful siege of Jaboor, removing Alphatian > presence in region. > 828 AC: Lord Alexander Glantri, of Thyatian descent, > captures Halzunthram and confirms the land's independence from > Alphatia. The population names the land Glantri in his honor. > Principalities of Glantri expel all dwarves, some of > whom migrate to Darokin. They depart on Minrothad ships to join > the craftsmen of the Minrothad Isles; they settle on Fortress > Island. > 829 AC: Lord Glantri founds the Republic of Glantri and > reforms the council. Presumnably, some time between these events, the D'Ambrevilles and the Klantyres travel to Mystara from their otherdimensional place of origin. > 858 AC: Nobility is reserved for wizards only in > Glantri. Council members gain the hereditary title of Prince. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 14:56:47 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 6/8 > 960 AC: The Alphatian assault forces reach Thyatis City > and kill the Thyatian emperor, but are repelled by a > counterattack led by Thincol the Brave, a famous gladiator. As a result, Thincol becomes the emperor of Thyatis, whereas the Emperor of Alphatia is forced to step down in favor of his daughter Eriadna. > 965 AC: Prince Haldemar of Haaken begins his voyage on the > Princess Ark, discovering the southern polar opening into the > Hollow World and the invisible moon, Myoshima. He also disappears for thirty-five years ... > 1000 AC: > Prince Haldemar of Alphatia foils a plot by the Rajah > of Jaibul to add Putnabad to the Rajahstan of Jaibul. He fails, however, to subsequently prevent the assassination of the Great Prophet of Yavdlom. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 15:02:51 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 8/8 > 1150 AC: The deaths of High King Maramet of Vestland > and his sole heir throw the nation into a political turmoil. > The Sorona, the enchanted crown of Vestland, is sought by > various factions hoping to claim the throne. > Um. According to the first Poor Wizard's Almanack, Maramet was the Thyatian name for the king who proceeded Harold on the throne of Vestland. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 18:58:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor (was: What size is Mystara) > Okay ... anyone know how far the Beagle was from the city? > Obviously, far enough away that the Blackmoorans didn't notice > the mushroom cloud when Benekander blew it ... but close enough that they > could get to it fairly easily ... Hold on. When was this? DA4? I have DA2 and DA3 and neither of them has the ship getting blown up.> Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 19:13:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara > Well, in OD&D (Mystara's true home, remember ...) the Prime > Material is the only plane that is composed of all five spheres, thus > allowing for really complex cultures that embrace a variety of > philosophies -- like the Hollow World ... Or the outer world. Almost all the lands in GAZ have different outlooks and that ignores Alphatia, the Savage Coast and other diffferent lands. PS Mystara is a term introduced after OD&D had basically been wiped out. I dont think the world really had a name-just Known World and Hollow World(and Blackmoor) as the settings which the world encompassed. Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 19:18:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara > > > Why wasn't > > > Blackmoor preserved, if that's the point of the Hollow World ? Well, > it's kind of hard to preserve ionized gases.. Even Alphatia was still all > there, just underwater, when they moved it to the HW. Besides, would You > want to preserve them, when they'd likely just blow themselves up again? > > Unless I'm mistaken, doesn't the HW box leave huge areas to fill in as you > see fit? Dropping in Blackmoor is no big deal... I think this was discussed in the Hollow World box set. 1st, the Blacklore elves were kept, but the technology was deadened outside the vale because the immortals didn't want the tech around BUT they preserved it a little by keeping Blacklore elves. 2nd, it said in the history section that the immortals worked overtime to save races and animals after the cataclysm(is there a term-cataclysm sounds too dragonlancish) that they let many die off-maybe they figured they shouldn't save those who bougtht he catastrophy and focused attention on innocent cultures(Tanagoro??Jennite??Don't remember which exactly, but there were some) Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 19:20:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] battle system One question about BATTLE SYSTEM/SEA SYSTEM If a Traldar pirate fleet does a hit-and-run on Azcan coastal cities, how do you run the combat? I am playtesting(by myself) the HW setting with various cultures, and this sounds like a possible scenarion with many cultures like Antallians,Traldarans and of course Merry Pirates. Any ideas on how to handle these raids with mass-combat systems? Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 19:39:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline > Am I the only list-member who doesn't want to have his campaign's timeline > follow the 'future history' that extends beyond the Gazetteer era? You're not alone. I like old settings the way they were made. I haven't read the DL changes but I don't want the world to change from the way it was in Chronciles-either prewar of lance or post I have not gotten WOTI, but don't want major changes from HWRs and GAZs also. TOo much has been made for those to rework everything in the new systems > I enjoy the setting as written. I'd like to let my players help determine > where things go. I'd like to preserve aspects that I personally enjoy. And I > don't like the trend of marketing products telling you 'what happens next.' > To me that's foreign to the spirit of the game. And such changes made future > products that I might otherwise have purchased, 'unpalatable' at least. Yep. Yep. Yep. > I can see an occasional 'jumpstart' to revive interest in a campaign world; > a supplement detailing that event would be rather non-intrusive. Probably > such could be designed so as not to impact on much of the future of the > world; could be relatively localised, and easily ignored by DMs and future > publications. And such a thing should only be released once every few years. > But these sweeping changes to an entire known world, released on a regular > basis, seem motivated by pure greed on the publishers' part. Of course, this > is just one of many ploys. Not much new for Mystara anyways, so I dont think one new thing every few yrs will really happen. > As a recent usenet post pointed out, wouldn't it > be nice to see companies publish _modules_ again? As osme answers pointed out, 1)they were not flexible(the new ones),2)they were old fashioned RPG(combat,combat,combat), 3)They were not as much a money-producer as setting books And my idea:GAZes and HWRs and PCs and boxed sets give the DM more freedom and still give basic ideas-you can make more inerrelated adventures from those than from modules(even series like Norworld ones) >When I heard about the first 'almanac,' I really expected an > atlas/encyclopedia, one that would be relatively timeless in its utility (I > know, wishful thinking - sorry). I was disappointed when I saw that it > reflected the 'changes' I was 'supposed' to make in my Mystara as a result > of WOTI, which I didn't want to use. So I didn't buy it. What's an almanac? I mean, for Mystara? Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 19:49:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timelines (was: Timeline) > somewhat watered down in the DA version, to me) (Temple of the Frog, I mean) But DA3 is complex enough tech-wise. I don't think Blackmoor was overrun with it back in the DA period(Blackmoor 1st founded). Remember it took 1000 yrs and interaction witht the aliens(not started till DA3) to get to the tech level that destroyed Blackmoor. > . Also see the Judges Guild Blackmoor supplement, for Arneson's actual notes > , encounter tables, items, characters, political entities etc. He freely > mixed technology in, as was much more common in the early days of D&D. > Robots, phasers etc, in a light-hearted style of play. The Judges' Guild one is hard-to-find as far as I can tell. Tech isn't my style, but the review I heard of it being freeform more and less commercial sounds good.(not that the DAs were commercial compared to most of T$R) > I mean, his entries > in that supplement for Castle Blackmoor included a grand escalator/staircase > direct to the nastiest levels of the dungeon, elven ticket-takers at the > gates, and similar hooliganism. Maybe Fineous Fingers is also a similar mood > , or Yamara; free mixture of humor and various genres. Nice-sounds like the book of invetions(AC11????) Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 19:51:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 3/8 > Uh ... the Path of the Polymath will lead you to the Sphere of > Matter. Atruaghin is an Immortal of the sphere of Matter (according to > the Codex of the Immortals) ... granted, he also did quite a bit that > seems to be following the Path of the Paragon (certainly changed his > lands features completely ...) The paths are guidelines, not rules from my view. So they are very flexible. And you can change spheres once you reach immortality-if you change right after the test it affects your power very little Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #38 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #39 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Sunday, 14 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 039 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Davies Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 22:51:20 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara > > > Well, in OD&D (Mystara's true home, remember ...) the Prime > > Material is the only plane that is composed of all five spheres, thus > > allowing for really complex cultures that embrace a variety of > > philosophies -- like the Hollow World ... > > Or the outer world. Almost all the lands in GAZ have different > outlooks and that ignores Alphatia, the Savage Coast and other diffferent > lands. The point, Mr. Gelman, was that if the Hollow World is on a different plane, it will be more restricted > > PS Mystara is a term introduced after OD&D had basically been wiped out. > I dont think the world really had a name-just Known World and Hollow > World(and Blackmoor) as the settings which the world encompassed. Not so. The term was introduced in the Voyages of the Princess Ark, and was also in use in the D&D Cyclopedia ... plus, as a name for the world, it just sounds kewl. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Sun, 14 Jan 96 12:14:21 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline At 09.58 13/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >-- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > >Am I the only list-member who doesn't want to have his campaign's timeline >follow the 'future history' that extends beyond the Gazetteer era? > >I enjoy the setting as written. I'd like to let my players help determine >where things go. I'd like to preserve aspects that I personally enjoy. And I >don't like the trend of marketing products telling you 'what happens next.' >To me that's foreign to the spirit of the game. And such changes made future >products that I might otherwise have purchased, 'unpalatable' at least. > >I can see an occasional 'jumpstart' to revive interest in a campaign world; >a supplement detailing that event would be rather non-intrusive. Probably >such could be designed so as not to impact on much of the future of the >world; could be relatively localised, and easily ignored by DMs and future >publications. And such a thing should only be released once every few years. >But these sweeping changes to an entire known world, released on a regular I think Mystara world was too static. I mean: the historic timelines in the various Gazzetters told us of great wars and epic struggles in the past, but around AC1000 nothing of such interest happened. Well, that's not very nice for a world where adventurers are supposed to become famous. However WOTI didn't change the world very much: Alphatia sunk, and now is the same poorly detailed empire (because DotE is not very good, if you think what TSR did with Glantri) transported in the HW; Alfheim is no more and now we have Aengmor; some changes took place near the Broken Lands because of the Great Crater, but what else ? The Master and Hule are still a mistery, the Heldanners conquered part of Norwold but nowhere can we find detailed info about that land, I don't think the world has changed very much, except perhaps for elves in Canolbarth. >basis, seem motivated by pure greed on the publishers' part. Of course, this >is just one of many ploys. As a recent usenet post pointed out, wouldn't it >be nice to see companies publish _modules_ again? > Yes, it would be very nice ! >When I heard about the first 'almanac,' I really expected an >atlas/encyclopedia, one that would be relatively timeless in its utility (I >know, wishful thinking - sorry). I was disappointed when I saw that it >reflected the 'changes' I was 'supposed' to make in my Mystara as a result >of WOTI, which I didn't want to use. So I didn't buy it. > I run my campaign on a day by day basis, in such a campaign an accessory like the PWA, which gives both statistics for various nations, and many future events and rumors for your PC, is very useful for a DM to help him plan his campaign. Don't you think so ? What I don't undestand is why TSR changed the useful and number-full PWA into the Joshuan Almanac, easier to read, but not so useful for DMing: no more HW, no more weather forecast, no more detailed infos, no more new lands (Great Waste & Davania in PWA#2, Esterhold in PWA#3). >I just wanted to explain the thoughts behind my request, as well as to >solicit some response. Of course, all of the above comments are strictly >IMHO. Anyone agree with me? > >Shelby > > ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 04:38:40 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Immortals a bornin' My account was down for the past few days for upgrades, so I haven't been able to post this till now, but here it is at long last. Let me know what you think: FORSETTA Temporal, Sphere of Matter. 7th level Immortal; AC -1/-8; Hp 110; HD 21; MV 150'(50'); #AT 3; D 2d6+3 (punch) or 2d4+9 (Mace +3); AM 50%; Save IM7; AL Lawful; STR 18; INT 16; WIS 20; DEX 12; CON 16; CHA 20. Powers: Call Other, Extra Attacks Per Round, Fighter Options, Weapon Mastery (Grand Master of War Hammer, Mace, and Battle Axe). Weapon: Mace +3. Armor: Plate mail armor providing a -4 to AC, shield providing a -3 to AC. Followers alignment: Lawful, (rarely) Neutral. Clerics must be Lawful. Special Clerical Powers: Forsetta's clerics can cast a Know Alignment spell once per day (cannot be reversed, this is not a spell but an innate power). They also automatically gain the skill Law and Justice (of their particular home territory). History: The immortal known as Forsetta was once a king of Vestland known as Ottar the Just. A lawful person and great leader of men, Ottar despised the exploitation of his people by the Ostland jarls, and rallied the men and women of Vestland together in a revolt against Ostland. Along the way, he learned the value of authority and the power of a unified government. Under his leadership, the land known as Vestland was able to become an independent monarchy. After his victory over the Ostlanders, Ottar began his quest for immortality, following the path of the Polymath. In each of his reincarnated lives, in addition to finding an artifact for his patron, he aided the people of Vestland in becoming a more feudal government, helping them keep pace with the more modern nations around them. When he finally achieved immortality, he adopted the name of Forsetta, his most recent incarnation on his quest to attain the sphere of matter. He is revered among the Vestland people as the 'Law bringer.' Personality: Forsetta is a peaceful, loyal immortal. He believes in the ideals of Law and Order, and works to aid the people of Vestland further in becoming a modern nation. Allies: Forsetta has no real allies, his goals are too focused in one area (the Northern Reaches) for many to bother with him. He is on friendly terms with Frey and Freyja (he was even a follower of theirs in mortal life) and Odin; Thor is much too impulsive for Forsetta's taste. He has not been asked to join their group, though if there were a common threat to the Northern Reaches, he would not hesitate to aid them, nor would they refuse his help. Enemies: Forsetta has no real enemies, either. The evil Northern immortals (Loki and Hel) consider him beneath their notice, though he will not hesitate to thwart their plots if they threaten his people. He is leery of the immortal Vanya and her Heldannic followers (see below) and he has had run ins with the Ethengarian immortal, Cretia, in the past; the two believe in contrasting ideals, but feel no real enmity towards one another. Appearance: Forsetta appears as a tall, blond headed and beardless Heldannic man clad in shining white plate mail. He carries a polished shield and a golden scepter with four large rubies adorning its head. His scepter, the symbol of Law, also functions as a mace +3 which he uses in combat. Symbol: A golden scepter with four rubies on its head, symbolizing Law and rulership. Interests: Forsetta is primarily concerned with aiding his people of Vestland on their path towards a lawful state. They are coming along quite well in this manner, and so he has begun to turn his attentions to the Soderfjord Jarldoms of late (he would like to work on the Ostlanders, too, but they fervently reject his ideas). He is subtly pushing the Jarldoms to come together and unite, but it is slow going, as they are a stubborn people. In the years prior to AC 1012, when Ragnar the Stout is elected the King of the Jarldoms, he will be pushing for this very thing to happen (in fact, this event will be quite a victory for him- perhaps he will attain higher levels when this happens?) As he grows in power, he will turn his attention to a wider scale, bringing law to other nations. He is currently concerned about the Heldannic Knights, poised on the border of Vestland, and Vanya, their warlike patron. Also, he has had run ins with the immortal Cretia in the city of Rhoona recently, a sore spot, as Rhoona is one of the more modernized cities in Vestland currently. ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 14:01:14 +0200 (EET) Subject: [Mystara] About the location of Alphatia As there has been some discussion about the location of hollow world and the destiny of Alphatia, I thought I could tell What Happened To Alphatia in my campaing, read if you wish; - -- The doomsday weapon activated causing a great storm, after which the continend of Alphatia could not be found where it had been... Note! we were playing our immortal campaing at the time. Councilor Breeze of the Council of Alphatia (or now New-Alphatia) was not however quite satisfied with the outcome, not believing that everybody on the continent could have died. So as his alter-ego Initiate immortal Omeos, Creator of Items Magical, went to search the bottom of the new Alphatian sea. And a big wonder, the continent was not there! And there was not a trace as to where it could be. Well the immortal made a journey to Pandius, the City of Immortals in the moon, and soon find out, than no friendly immortal could tel him, where the continent could be. Meening that no, it can not be in Hollow world, because in my campaing there is no such place. Wondering even more, the immortal Omeos decided to call his good friend from years back, even from his mortality, immortal Catrin Pathfinder, the patron of scouts, who he hoped might be the only one to find a lost place such as Alphatia. An truely, Pathfinder did find the lost continent, but from such a vile place as Pyts, the home of many a Entropic Immortal. And even worse, in the backyard of the fiendish Alphaks, bane of Alphatia. And the continend was ripped of from every other source of power than entropy; time did not run for creatures of Alphatia, and there was no energy to produce fire to make light for the dark homes. Well then, what could a few initiate immortals do to take somthing from the grasps of Alphaks, but to call for help from the greater immortals, some of whom were still shaken, after the great war. The friends of Omeos and Catrin all came to summon some of the greatest powers of the skies, and a great meeting was kept, where a hierarch of each spere promised to help, except no god of entropy was invited, and no god other could take Alphatia from Pyts, protected as it was by the powers of darknes. Great was the joy of immortal Alphatia Patron of Alphatia, after the founding of her followers, but sad was the news as there seemed to be no hope of saving them. Only hope was to ask for help, from her who no one loved, the Great immortal Hel of entropy, The One of Dead, but also of life. So forward stepped immortal Peleon, the initiate of thought in the halls of Odin, The friend of elves unable on magic but true with bows. With wings of need he flew to the lands of dead, where he has once, been, but never enjoyed. Deal was done, Hel would help, but the price would later be paid, and great. Hel used hes powers, and moved the lost continent to plane of grey fog in ether. There all the other Hierarchs returned their powers to Alphatia, and the continend lived again. But their minds were altered so that all but the most great ones thought that the grey plane had been their home allways. And there now lies the continent of Alphatia, in the place where it had once been, but on the next plane, and there it wouls stay until the mortal Alphatians could came up with a way to return it to Prime. And there also wuld stay the Immortal Alphatia, to protect her peoples from Alphaks who could now attac Alphatia, with no objections from the laws of immortality. - -- needles to say we had a few more adventures, when the initiates were needed to help the lost continent against Alphaks... Later Eriadna and others who still have their right minds (as well as the councilor Breeze) have been inventing ways so send a couple of flying ships to prime to see whats happening, so that a way the story goes on much like in the almanacs... hope somebody enjoyed the story. And remember, that was what happened in my campaing, yours is on other dimension :) - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 05:09:35 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Immortal 2 CRETIA (Mischief Maker, Great Destroyer, Patron of War) Celestial, Sphere of Thought. 13th level immortal; AC -4; Hp 180; HD 27; MV 150'(50'); #AT 4; D 4d6+7 (punch); AM 60%; Save IM13; Al Chaotic; STR 30; INT 33; WIS 25; DEX 45; CON 20; CHA 20. Powers: Extra Attacks Per Round, Fighter Options, Wind Howl (like normal Howl, but takes form of hurricane blast), Increased Damage. Followers Alignment: Any. Clerics must be Chaotic. Special Clerical Powers: Clerics of Cretia may Move Silently as a thief of the same level. Additionally, they gain the General Skill Deception. History: In life, Cretia was a warrior and trickster of the Blackmoor-era Ethengarian peoples. Following the destruction of that civilization, Cretia's people were forced to endure many hardships in the cataclysm that followed. Many of the Ethengarians died in the centuries that followed, but Cretia came to see this as a good thing. He believed that the Blackmoorians destruction came about as a result of their own decadence and reliance on order and law. He saw that they had become to stagnant as a society to survive, and thus their destruction was inevitable. His own people mananged to survive the cataclysm by virtue of sheer staying power, and their ability to adapt to new and often strange and dangerous circumstances. He helped to guide his people through the hard times that followed Blackmoor's end, and eventually sought and gained immortality under the guidance of Korotiku, a fellow trickster. Personality: Cretia is totally dedicated to the concept of Chaos. Though not actually evil, he sees chaos as a means to prevent the stagnation brought about by Law. He concentrates his efforts on the Ethengarian people, bringing random troubles into their lives and constantly forcing them to adapt to adversity in order to stay alive and prosper (You might say he is the ultimate Darwinist, forcing survival of the fittest). He is honored as the bringer of chaos as well as a prankster and the immortal patron of war among the Ethengarians. Allies: Cretia gets on well with his sponsor, Korotiku as well as their fellow immortal Eiryndul, another prankster, though they rarely cooperate on projects, due to Cretia's solitary interests. Other allies include his fellow Ethengarian clique- Tubak (Ixion) and Yamuga (Terra). Enemies: Cretia has no real enemies. He and Forsetta have been at odds of late, as Cretia expands his interests to include Vestland (the town of Rhoona, particularly). Their ideas are at odds, and when their paths collide, problems result, but neither immortal takes it personally, respecting one another even if they don't agree on their beliefs. Vanya and he are often at odds of late, as the Ethengarians constantly raid the Heldannic Territories. Appearance: Cretia's manifestation form is that of a man sized, sloth like creature with large eyes and fangs. Symbol: A furry, sloth like creature. Interests: Cretia's primary interest is in keeping his Ethengarian ancestors hardy and fit. He occasionally gets involved elsewhere in the prime, causing some random havok here and there and testing the mortals survivability. Lately, his interests have been expanding to encompass the lands around the Ethengarian Steppes to the Northern Reaches and Heldannic Territories. The appearance of two immortals there, Vanya and Forsetta, both bringing law and order (though in very different manner) to their respective territories, have Cretia's interest. For one thing, it is good for his people, as there are new threats to keep testing them with, and for another, here is new territory for him to begin to extend his influence into. The going is very slow in the Heldannic Territories, as Vanya has her followers so dead set against ideas other than her own, but among the original Heldannic peoples there, he is gaining a small following. The going is easier in Vestland, where he has some temples in the Ethengarian sections of a few towns, particularly Rhoona. ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 05:39:50 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Martial arts Okay- I can't seem to find my rules for Savate or Kung fu, so those will have to wait for a few. The idea behind all this was to provide some color to unarmed combat, some new weapon masteries (I'm kind of tired of normal swords, myself), and some flavor to the Known World. I had in mind quite a few different types of martial arts- aside from New Averoignian Savate, Ochalean Kung-Fu and Tortle Aikido (see below), I thought perhaps Minrothaddan Escrima, Rakastan Ninjutsu, Pearl Island Capoeira, some sort of Sindhi martial art (can't recall the name). I am also trying to work out a way to incorporate these rules with mystics, somewhat along the lines of what AD&D did with the monk in Oriental Adventures, but haven't gotten it quite right yet. Let me know what you think, and if anyone comes up with some of their own, or some based on the ideas above, I'd love to see them! AIKIDO Martial Art Basic 1pt M:-1AC/1 Block(1) [P=M] SM Skilled 1d2 M:-2AC/2 Block(2), Lock 2H + Expert 1d3 M:-2AC/3 Block(2), Lock, Throw Master 1d4 M:-3AC/3 Block(3), Lock, Throw (save -1) G. Master 1d4+1 M:-4AC/4 Block(3), Lock, Throw (save -2) Notes: Block is the same as the Deflect term in the Weapon Mastery rules. Lock is similar to disarm, but the weapon is not removed from the opponents hand, rather he can save versus strength every round, matching it with the practitioner's strength, to see if he can get the weapon free. Throw is nearly identical to Hook, save for the following: it can be performed on anyone, regardless of whether they are mounted or not, and the victim is thrown a number of feet (in the direction of the attacker's choice!) equal to the points of damage taken from the attack (ie, receive 4 pts damage, you are thrown four feet from the attacker). Strength: To hit/Damage bonuses and penalties from strength are not applied when using Aikido. Rather, as the art relies on using the opponent's strength against them, the modifiers used are those for the opponents strength rating (ie, if fighting an opponent with 18 strength, you receive a +3 to hit/dmg against him). The stronger an opponent, the more likely he is to hurt himself. Likewise, weaker opponents are less likely to be injured. The damage received cannot be lowered below one point, however. History: Aikido first made it's appearance along the shores of the Savage Coast. Encroaching hordes of foreign explorers, more well armed and armored than peaceful, slow moving Tortles that lived there, drove those creatures from their lands and claimed it for themselves. The Tortles, being driven to extinction, and desperate for a way to fight back, looked to their ancestral home, the sea, for guidance. It was there they found the answers they sought. In the sea, they found a force that could not be conquered. Like the Tortles, it was strong but slow. It gave way before forces used against it, not expending its own energies needlessly. And though it was normally peaceful, it was powerful and merciless when moved. The Tortles developed a philosophy and a fighting style to mimic the ocean, utilizing their natural abilities. This style, termed Aikido- 'The way of the Sea' in their language- relied upon using an enemies' strength against him, throwing him off balance or barring him from using his weapons, so that he could be dispatched through the use of holds. Armed with this way of fighting, the Tortles managed to halt the advance of the invaders. The art is still practiced today, primarily by the Tortle mystics of Dunwick castle, who often send out members to other areas along the Savage Coast, to combat oppression there. It has begun to spread throughout the world, as Texeiran and Minrothaddan traders carry it to far away ports. Some Minrothaddan Merchant-Princes have been known to study at Dunwick, and teach their crews the martial art for defense. There it is. I'll try and find my Savate and Kung-Fu weapon masteries here soon. I haven't had a chance to try any of them out yet, so let me know what you think about them. Any ideas, suggestions, criticisms, welcome! ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Sun, 14 Jan 96 14:25:42 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 8/8 At 15.02 13/01/96 -0700, you wrote: >> 1150 AC: The deaths of High King Maramet of Vestland >> and his sole heir throw the nation into a political turmoil. >> The Sorona, the enchanted crown of Vestland, is sought by >> various factions hoping to claim the throne. >> > Um. According to the first Poor Wizard's Almanack, Maramet was >the Thyatian name for the king who proceeded Harold on the throne of >Vestland. > >Chris Davies. However I think you should not put in the "official" timeline events taking place after 1013 AC, maybe TSR will not use them in future almanacs. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Sun, 14 Jan 96 14:40:46 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline At 19.39 13/01/96 -0500, you wrote: > >I have not gotten WOTI, but don't want major changes from HWRs and GAZs >also. TOo much has been made for those to rework everything in the new >systems I don't think moving the Alphatian Empire in the HW, shifting some border and renaming a bunch of rulers means making major changes to GAZs and HWRs. And the work is easier if you use the almanacs. > >> I enjoy the setting as written. I'd like to let my players help determine >> where things go. I'd like to preserve aspects that I personally enjoy. And I >> don't like the trend of marketing products telling you 'what happens next.' >> To me that's foreign to the spirit of the game. And such changes made future >> products that I might otherwise have purchased, 'unpalatable' at least. > >Yep. Yep. Yep. > I agree on letting players determine where things go, but there is a limit. I don't want to let my PC's decide the destiny of the world, at least until they are very high in level (around 30th) and this would take many game years, not just ten (i.e. the time between tha start of my campaign and the event in AC1010) >> I can see an occasional 'jumpstart' to revive interest in a campaign world; >> a supplement detailing that event would be rather non-intrusive. Probably >> such could be designed so as not to impact on much of the future of the >> world; could be relatively localised, and easily ignored by DMs and future >> publications. And such a thing should only be released once every few years. >> But these sweeping changes to an entire known world, released on a regular >> basis, seem motivated by pure greed on the publishers' part. Of course, this >> is just one of many ploys. > >Not much new for Mystara anyways, so I dont think one new thing every few >yrs will really happen. > >> As a recent usenet post pointed out, wouldn't it >> be nice to see companies publish _modules_ again? > >As osme answers pointed out, 1)they were not flexible(the new >ones),2)they were old fashioned RPG(combat,combat,combat), 3)They were >not as much a money-producer as setting books Put them in the right (TSR) order: 3), 2), 1) :-) >And my idea:GAZes and HWRs and PCs and boxed sets give the DM more >freedom and still give basic ideas-you can make more inerrelated >adventures from those than from modules(even series like Norworld ones) > I agree with you and I also think that they are more interesting to read. >>When I heard about the first 'almanac,' I really expected an >> atlas/encyclopedia, one that would be relatively timeless in its utility (I >> know, wishful thinking - sorry). I was disappointed when I saw that it >> reflected the 'changes' I was 'supposed' to make in my Mystara as a result >> of WOTI, which I didn't want to use. So I didn't buy it. > >What's an almanac? I mean, for Mystara? Never heard of Poor Wizard Almanacs or the new Joshuan Almanac ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Sun, 14 Jan 96 14:41:36 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline At 19.39 13/01/96 -0500, you wrote: > >I have not gotten WOTI, but don't want major changes from HWRs and GAZs >also. TOo much has been made for those to rework everything in the new >systems I don't think moving the Alphatian Empire in the HW, shifting some border and renaming a bunch of rulers means making major changes to GAZs and HWRs. And the work is easier if you use the almanacs. > >> I enjoy the setting as written. I'd like to let my players help determine >> where things go. I'd like to preserve aspects that I personally enjoy. And I >> don't like the trend of marketing products telling you 'what happens next.' >> To me that's foreign to the spirit of the game. And such changes made future >> products that I might otherwise have purchased, 'unpalatable' at least. > >Yep. Yep. Yep. > I agree on letting players determine where things go, but there is a limit. I don't want to let my PC's decide the destiny of the world, at least until they are very high in level (around 30th) and this would take many game years, not just ten (i.e. the time between tha start of my campaign and the event in AC1010) >> I can see an occasional 'jumpstart' to revive interest in a campaign world; >> a supplement detailing that event would be rather non-intrusive. Probably >> such could be designed so as not to impact on much of the future of the >> world; could be relatively localised, and easily ignored by DMs and future >> publications. And such a thing should only be released once every few years. >> But these sweeping changes to an entire known world, released on a regular >> basis, seem motivated by pure greed on the publishers' part. Of course, this >> is just one of many ploys. > >Not much new for Mystara anyways, so I dont think one new thing every few >yrs will really happen. > >> As a recent usenet post pointed out, wouldn't it >> be nice to see companies publish _modules_ again? > >As osme answers pointed out, 1)they were not flexible(the new >ones),2)they were old fashioned RPG(combat,combat,combat), 3)They were >not as much a money-producer as setting books Put them in the right (TSR) order: 3), 2), 1) :-) >And my idea:GAZes and HWRs and PCs and boxed sets give the DM more >freedom and still give basic ideas-you can make more inerrelated >adventures from those than from modules(even series like Norworld ones) > I agree with you and I also think that they are more interesting to read. >>When I heard about the first 'almanac,' I really expected an >> atlas/encyclopedia, one that would be relatively timeless in its utility (I >> know, wishful thinking - sorry). I was disappointed when I saw that it >> reflected the 'changes' I was 'supposed' to make in my Mystara as a result >> of WOTI, which I didn't want to use. So I didn't buy it. > >What's an almanac? I mean, for Mystara? Never heard of Poor Wizard Almanacs or the new Joshuan Almanac ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sun, 14 Jan 96 10:58:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > PS Mystara is a term introduced after OD&D had basically been wiped out. > I dont think the world really had a name-just Known World and Hollow > World(and Blackmoor) as the settings which the world encompassed. Not so. The term was introduced in the Voyages of the Princess Ark, and was also in use in the D&D Cyclopedia ... plus, as a name for the world, it just sounds kewl. You're both basically correct. It was unnamed initially, then became referred to as the Known World in the boxed rules sets. Contrary to popular belief, there was no connection to Blackmoor either stated or implied at that point. Then HW was released. Then, in Dragon, in the Princess Ark column, Bruce Heard announced a contest to come up with a name for the world . Mystara was announced as the winner, and appeared in the Cyclopedia. Shelby ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #39 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #40 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Sunday, 14 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 040 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sun, 14 Jan 96 10:58:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timelines (was: Timeline) - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > somewhat watered down in the DA version, to me) (Temple of the Frog, I mean) But DA3 is complex enough tech-wise. I don't think Blackmoor was overrun with it back in the DA period(Blackmoor 1st founded). Remember it took 1000 yrs and interaction witht the aliens(not started till DA3) to get to the tech level that destroyed Blackmoor. I remember the JG supplement much better than I do the DA series. However, the JG Blackmoor, (again, being Arneson's actual notes, and published much nearer in time to when the actual campaign was run), had an overall tech- influence that pretty-much permeated the culture. That wasn't in the DA series, which had scads of your standard medieval-fantasy areas and people. > . Also see the Judges Guild Blackmoor supplement, for Arneson's actual notes > , encounter tables, items, characters, political entities etc. He freely > mixed technology in, as was much more common in the early days of D&D. > Robots, phasers etc, in a light-hearted style of play. The Judges' Guild one is hard-to-find as far as I can tell. Tech isn't my style, but the review I heard of it being freeform more and less commercial sounds good.(not that the DAs were commercial compared to most of T$R) JG is hard to find. I'd recommend Crazy Egor, or Gamescience/Zocchi. Tech isn't usually my style either. The main JG campaign products, ie City State of the Invincible Overlord, had just a touch of it, obviously influenced by Arneson's work. That was enough for me, for the day-to-day of the campaign. The review was accurate. I agree that DA wasn't as commercial as most of TSR , but it was almost 'straining' to 'flesh out' Arneson's work. Remember he had a 'co-writer' credited on those (I think on all but the first one); based on having seen the JG product, I think the co-writer probably did what you see, looking at Arneson's work. And he was no doubt under instructions to 'mainstream' the thing. > I mean, his entries > in that supplement for Castle Blackmoor included a grand escalator/staircase > direct to the nastiest levels of the dungeon, elven ticket-takers at the > gates, and similar hooliganism. Maybe Fineous Fingers is also a similar mood > , or Yamara; free mixture of humor and various genres. Nice-sounds like the book of invetions(AC11????) Yes, I would agree with you there. Shelby ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sun, 14 Jan 96 10:58:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- You're not alone. I like old settings the way they were made. I haven't read the DL changes but I don't want the world to change from the way it was in Chronciles-either prewar of lance or post I feel the same way about DL, as well. > I can see an occasional 'jumpstart' to revive interest in a campaign world ; > a supplement detailing that event would be rather non-intrusive. Probably > such could be designed so as not to impact on much of the future of the > world; could be relatively localised, and easily ignored by DMs and future > publications. And such a thing should only be released once every few years. > But these sweeping changes to an entire known world, released on a regular > basis, seem motivated by pure greed on the publishers' part. Of course, this > is just one of many ploys. Not much new for Mystara anyways, so I dont think one new thing every few yrs will really happen. I'm speaking more in generalities above; the Mystara line is currently dead. > As a recent usenet post pointed out, wouldn't it > be nice to see companies publish _modules_ again? As osme answers pointed out, 1)they were not flexible(the new ones),2)they were old fashioned RPG(combat,combat,combat), 3)They were not as much a money-producer as setting books And my idea:GAZes and HWRs and PCs and boxed sets give the DM more freedom and still give basic ideas-you can make more inerrelated adventures from those than from modules(even series like Norworld ones) I read those responses, as well. 1)Flexible? You're referring to a module, but "new ones?" Are you perhaps referring specifically to Mystara modules? Ah, but if so I would agree with you! I don't care for most modern 'module' products (read on). Regardless, a module can be reworked to a degree with little fuss, usually. 2)"Old fashioned RPG." That concept, that 'we' have 'evolved' beyond our gaming roots to some 'higher level' of play, has usually incited me to riot! ;-) I played RPG's from the late 70's. Modules and products were certainly more streamlined, often poorly-produced. BUT - there were role-players, and there were hack'n'slashers, in the same proportion as today - as PLAYERS. This happens regardless of the products that are incorporated into the game! The modules that make everyone sigh with nostalgia had terrific stories wrapped up in them. The DM elaborated on the aspects that he chose. They did _not_ have text-eating frames on each page, multi-color printing, price-inflating boxes, space-infringing illustrations; in summary, they were an excellent value for the money for the DM. 3)As for the sales angle, I for one went through a period where I purchased release after release, which had nice background info (sometimes pretty sketchy, because it covered so wide an area), but nothing other than a couple of pages of 'adventure hooks.' Know what? I've probably got that much information already. The 'hooks' become the most utilitarian part of the product. After investing a couple of hundred dollars, trying to reduce the time I must invest in running a game, I had no help at all! So my conclusion is, while the occasional release of that nature is of use to a DM , consumers may be easily turned-off to purchase similar (or even similar- looking) products in future. Come on, how many 'settings' books does one DM need? Compare with how many MODULES one DM needs! And why would anyone other than a DM purchase these setting books? As a DM, I would forbid that anyway. No, I think the usenet response related to rules supplements having a wider market appeal (ie 'Complete Ninja' et al). Along those lines, this trend only gets me ranting worse, so I won't go into my feelings on those. I'm going to go calm down now...Hope I didn't offend anyone. >When I heard about the first 'almanac,' I really expected an > atlas/encyclopedia, one that would be relatively timeless in its utility (I > know, wishful thinking - sorry). I was disappointed when I saw that it > reflected the 'changes' I was 'supposed' to make in my Mystara as a result > of WOTI, which I didn't want to use. So I didn't buy it. What's an almanac? I mean, for Mystara? If I used the wrong word, it's because I didn't purchase these products. But a quick glance through my saved messages shows that other Mystara-posters seem to recognize the products to which I refer. These are the three (?) volumes, Ann Dupois seems to have worked on two (?) of them, that sort of looked at the whole of Mystara. Unfortunately for me, they are extremely time-sensitive, ie they reflect all of the changes imposed on the product line as of their date of publication. This means there is no Alphatia, Alfheim is full of Shadowelves, etc. Further, each subsequent volume would therefore almost make the previous volume useless (in a sense). (Please excuse any misunderstandings on my part, again I only checked out the first one, when it came out, in the store.) By definition, this is in fact what an almanac is. Fiendish, from a gaming company's perspective. The atlas/encyclopedia that I had foolishly expected would have greater long-term utility in general. Unfortunately, with the map - -smashing changes TSR made in the world, effectlively separating campaigns that were established in the Gazetteer era from newer campaigns, you would actually need one edition for pre-WOTI, and one for post-. Not that any of that could happen anyway, since the line is dead. :-( Shelby ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 13:16:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara > > PS Mystara is a term introduced after OD&D had basically been wiped out. > > I dont think the world really had a name-just Known World and Hollow > > World(and Blackmoor) as the settings which the world encompassed. > > Not so. The term was introduced in the Voyages of the Princess > Ark, and was also in use in the D&D Cyclopedia ... plus, as a name for > the world, it just sounds kewl. I didn't know that-thanks. That's why we need a Mystara FAQ-basic stuff like how the name came about. Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 13:22:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Almanacs? > >What's an almanac? I mean, for Mystara? > > Never heard of Poor Wizard Almanacs or the new Joshuan Almanac ? Never. Are they new products for AD&D or what? The newest T$R Mystara thing I've gotten was the Nithian Reference. Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 14:25:24 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Various questions > Did anyone of you buy the AD&D Mystara boxes: Karameikos & Glantri ? No. I have the GAZ's. > Are they only an AD&D conversion of D&D stuff updated at AC1010 and a CD or > can I find there something more interesting ? Apparently they're not even that much. There is some information missing from the Karameikos one. And the CD is a joke (I've heard it.) > My FR DM asked me how much does it take for a party to explore a > standard map hex., what do you think ? Depends on the depth of the exploration. Every nook and cranny, measure out the area of th hex and divide by the overland movement rate, multiply by 3 (to compute for the slowness of searching around). If it was just for a geographical look around, take the standard time (8 mile hex, 1/2 day or there abouts). > In Gaz2 (Ylaruam) and in HWR2 (Nithia) there are rules for > traveling in hot climate, but where can I find something for > traveling in cold areas ? Hmm. AD&D 1st ED. DMG or Wilderness Survival Guide, AD&D 2nd. ed. DMGR1 (?).... Maybe that FR supplement on the Great Glacier. Nightshade (Who's getting just too much mail these days.) HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 13:25:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara >. Contrary to popular > belief, there was no connection to Blackmoor either stated or implied at > that point. Then HW was released. The DA series was before HW and GAZ I think and it describes how the Broken Land and Blackmoor are connected, in a way. It at least implies that Blackmoor was once part of the current known world. Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 13:32:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline > > As a recent usenet post pointed out, wouldn't it > > be nice to see companies publish _modules_ again? > > As osme answers pointed out, 1)they were not flexible(the new > ones),2)they were old fashioned RPG(combat,combat,combat), 3)They were > not as much a money-producer as setting books > And my idea:GAZes and HWRs and PCs and boxed sets give the DM more > freedom and still give basic ideas-you can make more inerrelated > adventures from those than from modules(even series like Norworld ones) Shelby: > I read those responses, as well. 1)Flexible? You're referring to a module, > but "new ones?" Are you perhaps referring specifically to Mystara modules? > Ah, but if so I would agree with you! I don't care for most modern 'module' > products (read on). Regardless, a module can be reworked to a degree with > little fuss, usually. From what I have seen, the new modules(knight of newst or something) and from what I've heard here(The Azca modules) were awful. I liked the old modules like B4,B10,X1,X3,etc but the setting books and boxed sets do alot more in flexibility. > 2)"Old fashioned RPG." That concept, that 'we' have > 'evolved' beyond our gaming roots to some 'higher level' of play, has > usually incited me to riot! ;-) I played RPG's from the late 70's. Modules > and products were certainly more streamlined, often poorly-produced. BUT - > there were role-players, and there were hack'n'slashers, in the same > proportion as today - as PLAYERS. This happens regardless of the products > that are incorporated into the game! The modules that make everyone sigh > with nostalgia had terrific stories wrapped up in them. The DM elaborated on > the aspects that he chose. All modules are hack'n'slash. Most people used to play more of that than they do now(I love generalizing). Setting books like HWR and GAZ let the DM choose the style of play much better. > They did _not_ have text-eating frames on each > page, multi-color printing, price-inflating boxes, space-infringing > illustrations; in summary, they were an excellent value for the money for > the DM. And all those setting books have these? They have about the same % of art taking up the space as the rest. And there were only 3 boxed settings for Mystara,right(Dawn of Emporer,WOTI,HW) and all three are repudetly worth the money(I've only seen HW). > 3)As for the sales angle, I for one went through a period where I Don't try to rationalize T$$R money decisions-they don't make sense. They think modules don't make money, so thats the end of it. Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sun, 14 Jan 96 14:19:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timelines (was: Timeline) - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- >> JG is hard to find. I'd recommend Crazy Egor, or Gamescience/Zocchi. > Where and who are these? Crazy Egor is a games dealer located in New York State, USA. I don't have an address for him at the moment, but someone reading this probably will. Zocchi advertises in almost every issue of Dragon Magazine. Shelby ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sun, 14 Jan 96 14:19:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Sunday, 14-Jan-96 01:25 PM From: Mischa E Gelman \ Internet: (megst19+@pitt.edu) To: Post to Mystara-L \ Internet: (mystara-l@io.com) cc: Post to Mystara-L \ Internet: (mystara-l@io.com) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara >. Contrary to popular > belief, there was no connection to Blackmoor either stated or implied at > that point. Then HW was released. The DA series was before HW and GAZ I think and it describes how the Broken Land and Blackmoor are connected, in a way. It at least implies that Blackmoor was once part of the current known world. Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) - -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- Mischa, You aren't reading me correctly; I said, "...there was no connection to Blackmoor either stated or implied _at that point_." Obviously, when DA was released, which was before HW, the relationship was _contrived_. But until that point, the Known World had no relationship whatsoever, in _anyones'_ minds, with the Blackmoor campaign of Dave Arneson. Shelby ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 14:23:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Classes/Races Is this the final list? > > How abouta list of all T$R-created races and classes for ODND to see what > > is out there? > Here's off the top of my head: > > Human: > Cleric (Druid, Spec. Priests of any particular Immortal) > Fighter (Avenger, Knight, Paladin, Griffon Rider, Archer, Runner, > Spearman, Heavyman, Charioter) > Thief (Guardian, Royal Seal Bearer, Lockmaster, Rake) > Magic-User (Montoth, Mage-Scribe, Templar) > Mystic > subclasses: lycanthrope (bat, bear, boar, fox, rat, seal, shark, tiger, > wolf, hog), Darokin merchant, Minroth merchant,forester > > Elf: > Treekeeper You can play treekeepers? Arent these supposed to be clan-leaders???? > Warrior Elf > Shadow-Elf Shaman > Aquatic > Dwarf: > Dwarf-Cleric > Halfling: > Master > > Beastman, Brute-Man, Hutaakans, Krugel Orcs, Malpheggi Lizard Man, > Centaurs, Fauns, Treants, Wood Imps, Faenare, Gnome, Harpy, Pegataur, > Kna, Kopru, Merrow, Nixie, Sea Giant, Shark-kin, Gobin, Hobgoblin, > Bugbear, Kobold, Orc, Ogre, Troll,Phanaton,Lupins, Rakastas, Tortles, >Araneas > Normal, Shaman, Wokani, Shaman/Wokani > Triton (Cleric, Mage, Cleric/Mage) > Dryads > Nagpa > Hsaio > Gremlin > Sphinx (Mage, Cleric) > Tabi > Kubitt > Fighter, Thief, Rake, Magic-User, Cleric > Brownie, Leprechaun, Pixie, Sprite, Pooka, Sidhe, Woodrake > > -- > Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca > > > Decepticons. Trust them to spoil a hunt - Chumsly Yes, just like the humane society - Grimsore (The only comparison ever made between decpeticons and the humane society) ------------------------------ From: Jason Zavoda Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 16:32:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timelines (was: Timeline) Egor and Zocchi are on the high end of the market. If your looking for D&D stuff first try rec.games.frp.marketplace almost everything ever published runs through the marketplace. I know a few people who have what I have found to be reliable service and decent prices. I will pass along their email or web addresses if anyone wants. Jason Zavoda On Sun, 14 Jan 1996, Shelby Michlin wrote: > -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > > > >> JG is hard to find. I'd recommend Crazy Egor, or Gamescience/Zocchi. > > > Where and who are these? > > > Crazy Egor is a games dealer located in New York State, USA. I don't have an > address for him at the moment, but someone reading this probably will. > Zocchi advertises in almost every issue of Dragon Magazine. > Shelby > > ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 14:40:45 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Martial arts > > Okay- I can't seem to find my rules for Savate or Kung fu, so those will > have to wait for a few. The idea behind all this was to provide some > color to unarmed combat, some new weapon masteries (I'm kind of tired of > normal swords, myself), and some flavor to the Known World. I had in mind > quite a few different types of martial arts- aside from New Averoignian > Savate, Ochalean Kung-Fu and Tortle Aikido (see below), I thought perhaps > Minrothaddan Escrima, Rakastan Ninjutsu, Pearl Island Capoeira, some sort > of Sindhi martial art (can't recall the name). Kalari? Also, Escrima would probably fit Ierendi better than Minrothad. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 14:43:28 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 8/8 > >> 1150 AC: The deaths of High King Maramet of Vestland > >> and his sole heir throw the nation into a political turmoil. > >> The Sorona, the enchanted crown of Vestland, is sought by > >> various factions hoping to claim the throne. > >> > > Um. According to the first Poor Wizard's Almanack, Maramet was > >the Thyatian name for the king who proceeded Harold on the throne of > >Vestland. > > > >Chris Davies. > > However I think you should not put in the "official" timeline events taking > place after 1013 AC, maybe TSR will not use them in future almanacs. > What future almanacs? The Company-Whose-Name-I-Will-Not-Say has cancelled Mystara, remember? My point was that X13 Crown of Ancient Glory, according to the first almanac, actually took place at some time in the past. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 14:51:48 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Almanacs? > > > >What's an almanac? I mean, for Mystara? > > > > Never heard of Poor Wizard Almanacs or the new Joshuan Almanac ? > > Never. Are they new products for AD&D or what? The newest T$R Mystara > thing I've gotten was the Nithian Reference. > The first two were OD&D, the last two were AD&D. They present a year-by-year summary of Mystaran events, statistics for all characters, notes on Mystaran astrology, and so forth. At least, the three Poor Wizard's Almanacs did. I haven't read Joshuan's Almanac in any great detail. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Sun, 14 Jan 96 23:42:06 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Almanacs? At 13.22 14/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >> >What's an almanac? I mean, for Mystara? >> >> Never heard of Poor Wizard Almanacs or the new Joshuan Almanac ? > >Never. Are they new products for AD&D or what? The newest T$R Mystara >thing I've gotten was the Nithian Reference. > Some years ago TSR released WOTI (I think you know what it is about), after the events described in WOTI Mystara is not the same as before (Gaz series), so in 1992 (I think) TSR produced AC1010 Poor Wizard Almanac which includes: geopolitical informations about the various nations of KW and HW, famous NPC's (rulers and the like), statistics about the armies of the world, a timeline of events for year 1010 AC, general infos on Mystara ana a map of the New Alphatian Region. Then, in the following years, TSR published AC1011 (OD&D, new infos and a map about Davania & the great waste, economical & geographical infos, events for 1011 AC, the Mystaran zodiac ...), then PWA 3 for AD&D and in December 1995 the Joushan Almanac, that is a completely different thing, because the numerical infos are replaced by reports from a group of correspondents all around the KW (no more HW, referred to as a "hoax"). PWA's compel you to follow the official history and WOTI, but they are really a mine of infos. I hope my short answer is satisfactory. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 00:20:42 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline >All modules are hack'n'slash. Most people used to play more of that than >they do now(I love generalizing). Setting books like HWR and GAZ let the >DM choose the style of play much better. I agree. > >> They did _not_ have text-eating frames on each >> page, multi-color printing, price-inflating boxes, space-infringing >> illustrations; in summary, they were an excellent value for the money for >> the DM. > >And all those setting books have these? They have about the same % of >art taking up the space as the rest. And there were only 3 boxed >settings for Mystara,right(Dawn of Emporer,WOTI,HW) and all three are >repudetly worth the money(I've only seen HW). > 4 boxed set. There is also Champios of Mystara. I don't think DotE is worth the money. TSR could do something better. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #40 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #41 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, 16 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 041 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 00:20:56 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 8/8 At 14.43 14/01/96 -0700, you wrote: > What future almanacs? The Company-Whose-Name-I-Will-Not-Say has >cancelled Mystara, remember? I'm on this list since last monday and I don't remember seeing something like the cancellation of Mystara. Do you mean that Joshuan Almanac is the last product for Mystara ? There will be no more almanacs next years ? Mystara is officially cancelled? Is that true ? :-( ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 20:48:36 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.1 8/8 > > > What future almanacs? The Company-Whose-Name-I-Will-Not-Say has > >cancelled Mystara, remember? > > I'm on this list since last monday and I don't remember seeing something > like the cancellation of Mystara. Do you mean that Joshuan Almanac is the > last product for Mystara ? There will be no more almanacs next years ? > Mystara is officially cancelled? > Is that true ? :-( > Yep. There will be products in the Red Steel/Savage Baronies line, and the last novel in Thorrarin Gunnarson's Dragons of Mystara trilogy will be released, but other than that, Mystara has gone the way of Greyhawk and Al Quadim. Sorry to break it to ye like this. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: "M. Shaffer" Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 22:57:15 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! > What future almanacs? The Company-Whose-Name-I-Will-Not-Say has >cancelled Mystara, remember? > My point was that X13 Crown of Ancient Glory, according to the >first almanac, actually took place at some time in the past. > >Chris Davies. I thought TSR was planning a web site for Mystara. Not the actions of a company planning to drop something. As far as I know, they have no plans to cancel Mystara. In fact, they are planning to support it for a while. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 21:26:28 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! > > What future almanacs? The Company-Whose-Name-I-Will-Not-Say has > >cancelled Mystara, remember? > > My point was that X13 Crown of Ancient Glory, according to the > >first almanac, actually took place at some time in the past. > > > >Chris Davies. > > I thought TSR was planning a web site for Mystara. Not the actions of a > company planning to drop something. As far as I know, they have no plans > to cancel Mystara. In fact, they are planning to support it for a while. > I've seen the new catalog. Red Steel is there. Aside from a novel (Dragonmage of Mystara, by Thorarrin Gunnarson) there is no other new Mystara stuff coming out next year. So, unless they decided to give the Mystara section a year-long vacation ... Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Sir George Anonymous Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 04:37:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Mucho Replies to Digests #24-40 Hi all, Wow! Why the sudden explosion of posts to the mailing list? The last time I fell this far behind in my reading, I was two months in arrears. This time it's only been two weeks. Any way, here are a few replies: RE: Mystara Books from John Yu > Also in the book, the > rift between the Thyatian and Traldaran in Karameikos seems to be much > greater than what is stated in other materials, such as the Gazeteers. A large rift between Thyarians and Traladarans is hinted at in several places. The RC description of Karameikos says the following: "Secret Traladaran popular movements oppose the Thyatians, occasionally sabotaging the plans and activities of their rulers." "Karameikos is a divided land, its majority Traladaran population ruled by the invader Thyatian population." "The two elements tend to dislike one another greatly." "...the Traladarans don't willingly cooperate in the census)." "...there are hidden camps of Traladaran freedom fighters who plot the downfall of Stefan Karameikos." Also, the riot in B6, The Veiled Society is caused, in part, by the Thyatian/Traladaran rivalry. Add to that Stefan's attempts to reconcile the differences in the Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure boxed set (see my .sig file), and you have the potential for some serious plot threads. One of my PC's is a confused Ranger whose father was the leader of a resistance movement in Threshold, and who died under mysterious circumstances after the campaign started. Was it orcs? Was it a freak accident? Was it Thyatians? Was it Traladarans trying to make a martyr out of him? Then one day he saved the life of the one man who his father despised above all others (X12, Skarda's Mirror). It was the lesser of two evils. When he finally got to meet the Duke, he wasn't at all like his father described.... RE: Immortal descriptions from various posters Several people have asked about the types of information to include when working up immortal/specialty priest descriptions. A couple of weeks ago, I posted a list of questions; unfortunately, I wasn't clear in my intent. These questions are not designed to be answered once, they are designed to be answered once *for each immortal* (sorry Mischa). I came up with these off the top of my head. Going through some of the many published sources dealing with gods, specialty priests, and other followers will undoubtably turn up others. Note that some of these questions are specifically for AD&D (e.g. Rangers and kits). The D&Ders on the list can still use these as springboards for their imaginations. Without further adieu, here is the list. Does the immortal have only specialty priests (SP), or does he/she/it also have clerics? If there are clerics too, how do they get along with the SP's? What about the hierarchies of the various sects? Where do clerics and SP's stand in relation to eachother within their hierarchy? How do druids, paladins, and rangers fit into the picture? What about other classes (e.g. thieves in the temple of Asterius, illusionists in the temple of Korotiku, etc.)? Do different races and/or countries have different church hierarchies, or are they all combined into one? Do different races/countries have different specialty priests? (I would think that dwarf and human temples, priests, and ceremonies devoted to Kagyar would be vastly different from eachother.) What about ceremonial dress? What are the goals of the church? Who are the major players within the church hierarchy? Who are the allies/enemies of the church? What role do adventurers play in furthering the goals of the church? What responsibilities do followers of a particular immortal have (tithes, holy days, rituals, ceremonies, etc.)? Are there particular non-weapon proficiencies that are required or suggested for parishoners and/or clerics, et.al.? Do clerics, paladins, rangers, druids, or other classes need to take a specific kit in order to be a part of the hierarchy of a particular church? Just a few ides to think about. RE: Questions from Daniel Boese > Are archives of this list being kept? Yes, there are two forms of archives. Leroy Van Camp III is storing individual posts about specific topics, and I am archiving the digested version of the list. If you need back issues of the digest, let me know. I have everything except for issue #12. (Hint, hint, can anyone help me out here?) Please allow plenty of time for a response. It may take a while if 50 people suddenly want all 40 back issues of the mailing list (~1.3 MB). RE: Church of Karamiekos from Fabrizio Paoli The CoK includes (in my campaign) Vanya, Halav, Valerias, Kagyar, Asterius, Chardastes, and Protius. I think that's pretty close to "official." RE: The Shadow Elf invasion from various posters My thanks to Azure for his interpretation on the Shadow Elf invasion. Someone else said that they felt like they were in the minority for disliking WotI. Heck, I like WotI, and *I* feel like *I'm* in the minority. It is important for a good campaign world to change. Just as a PC or an NPC needs a well developed background to be interesting and believeable, a campaign world also needs a well developed background. Mystara has plenty of that. But players need to see not only histories, but also motivations and futures. Otherwise an NPC or a campaign setting is nothing more than a cardboard cut out. I'm as concerned as anyone else about events changing to invalidate my campaign. That's why I was glad that WotI presented ten years of future history. Now I know what to expect. (Of course, now that Mystara is dead, it's even easier to predict. :) ) [Rant mode on] No matter what happens, someone will be unhappy. Let's look at GDW's Traveller game (my other favorite) as an example. First, there was Traveller (Classic Traveller or CT today). The setting wasn't bad, but it was kind of stagnant. They had a war and some people complained while others cheered. After the war, things pretty much returned to the way they were. Again people complained that the setting was stagnant. Then there was a huge civil war changing everything, ushering in the Mega Traveller (MT) era. Some CT people liked the changes to the setting, others (including those complaining about stagnation) complained. Then the setting evolved again, and some people complained while others cheered. It's impossible to please everyone. Sorry for the rant. [Rant mode off] RE: Joshuan's Almanac and the Hollow World from various posters Several people were upset that Joshuan's Almanac called the HW a hoax. Considering the rest of the articles in the book, my personal take on it was that that was Joshuan's personal belief, not "reality." In my campaign, Joshuan heard rumors about the HW as early as AC1001, searched them out, and found nothing. Won't he (and my players) be surprised.... RE: Digest #29 from StrawberryJAMM If you still need digest #29, email me and I will send it to you. If you have #12, I would appreciate a copy. (Again I say, hint, hint, can anyone please help me out here?) RE: Digested list from Jason Azvoda > Can someone tell me how you get this digest and what it is? The mailing list is sent out in two different forms. The first form sends out each message as it comes in. The second form, the digest, saves up messages until there is about 30K worth information, then sends out a combined post to the people on the digested version. The information is (should be) exactly the same. As for how to subscribe, my memory is a bit fuzzy. Try a message that says "subscribe mystara-digest-l" rather than "subscribe mystara-l". RE: Timeline stuff from Daniel Boese Thanks for the great time-line information. I have a few questions. What products does this include? Does this include only the stuff already on a time-line in those products? I'm interested in a consolidated list including details gleaned from reading the various Mystara texts. I'm just getting into WotI and would like to have a comprehensive listing of events for background, news, and PC adventures. RE: Modules vs. sourcebooks from various posters Personally, I prefer to see sourcebooks rather than modules. After 16 years in the hobby, I have plenty of modules and adventures. I just need a place to put them. > When TSR releases a gameworld they should set aside areas not > covered in the intial release for either a DMs development or future > releases from TSR. The could cover a core area as they did in GAZ 1 > leave areas within to be developed by the DM and outline areas where > future modules and supplements will occur. On a larger scale entire > nations can be left permanantly open for a DM to develop. I realize > that to some extent TSR has tried to do this and any DM can choose > to tailor his or her campaign any way they like, but I have always > enjoyed following the official releases most of the time and I would > enjoy it even more if I knew that they would not greatly conflict with > the campaign that I am developing. FWIW, that's what GDW did with Traveller. Some people loved it, others who wanted a "complete," "official" campaign hated it for various reasons. As I said before, you can't please everyone. I don't believe that there were ever any plans to develop Davania.... > The other idea that I had relating even more to the problem of > "what happens next" releases from TSR which are guranteed to hash > any long term plans a DM may have for any gameworld, is to set the > official releases in certain time frames. Start the world of Mystara > at timeline X. All supplements such as the Gaz are in year X, modules > if they ever start doing them again, can be X, X+1 month,X+2,3,4 > even building to some great climax which changes the face of the world GDW did this too. It worked very well because the people who wanted to be official could be, and those who didn't care ignored the dates. > Then TSR can release Mystara timeline Y, publish supplements updating > the world, but at the same time keep putting out modules and supplements > for timeline X as well. The actual difference between the two timelines > can be very short or seperated by millenia. Ironically enough, now that GDW is defunct and the rights have gone back to the original creator that is one of the things in the works (8-12 different possible time periods). RE: Crazy Egor's from various posters Here's the address for Crazy Egor's: 3047 W. Henrietta Rd. Rochester, NY 14623 The General Manager's name is Charles Profitt, and his email address is us006973@interramp.com. This information is current as of 9/24/95. RE: Boxed sets from Fabrizio Paoli > 4 boxed set. There is also Champios of Mystara. Make that six. You forgot the new (sic) AD&D stuff about Karameikos and Glantri. That's all for now. Later folks, >>> Sir George Anonymous <<< ************************************************************************** ** ** ** There are no Thyatians here. There are no Traladarans. There are ** ** only citizens of Karameikos. - King Stefan Karameikos, AC 1012 ** ** ** ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:08:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline > >And all those setting books have these? They have about the same % of > >art taking up the space as the rest. And there were only 3 boxed > >settings for Mystara,right(Dawn of Emporer,WOTI,HW) and all three are > >repudetly worth the money(I've only seen HW). > > > 4 boxed set. There is also Champios of Mystara. What is this? > I don't think DotE is worth the money. TSR could do something better. I give them an excuse in that they are covering theee MAJOR countires, each which is larger than the GAZ countries. How badly a job did they do though? Bumblebee:That was Swindle, a Combaticonm. They're Decepticons. Roland:This sure is getting complicated. We should've just taken the F in science. (Ain't weird quotes that make no sense cool?) ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:54:56 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline > > 4 boxed set. There is also Champios of Mystara. > > What is this? The last major OD&D product. Champions of Mystara details the regions to the west of the Known World (focusing on Sind, Hule, and the Great Waste, unless I miss my guess. > (Ain't weird quotes that make no sense cool?) No. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: "Peter Donald" Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:59:16 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Various questions > Did anyone of you buy the AD&D Mystara boxes: Karameikos & Glantri ? > Are they only an AD&D conversion of D&D stuff updated at AC1010 and a > CD or can I find there something more interesting ? They're pretty much updated AD&D conversions with (really, howlingly, astoundingly awful) CDs and pretty art. Some stuff (especially in Glantri) appears to have gotten lost in the conversion to boot. My advice - save your money for something else. ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 00:48:50 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline At 13.08 15/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >> >And all those setting books have these? They have about the same % of >> >art taking up the space as the rest. And there were only 3 boxed >> >settings for Mystara,right(Dawn of Emporer,WOTI,HW) and all three are >> >repudetly worth the money(I've only seen HW). >> > >> 4 boxed set. There is also Champios of Mystara. > >What is this? > Champions of Mystara is a boxed set based on the Princess Ark voyages first published in Dragon magazine. In the boxed set there are 3 books: the first details the land west of the KW (Sind, Yavdlom & the Great Waste); the second contains the diary of the Princess Ark published in Dragon by Bruce Heard; the third is about skyship building and world creation (sic!). In the box there are also two maps, 8 ship recognition cards with flying ships and their statistics and 2 deck plans for the Princess Ark (two sheets). That's all ! :-) This boxed set is really worth the money. >> I don't think DotE is worth the money. TSR could do something better. > >I give them an excuse in that they are covering theee MAJOR countires, >each which is larger than the GAZ countries. How badly a job did they do >though? Yes, they had to cover a very large area (Alphatia + Norwold + Isle of Dawn + Bellisaria + Mainland Thyatis + various islands and colonies) but no one told them to do all in a single boxed set. Why not a Gaz about Thyatis, one about Norwold ans so on ? In this way we have general infos about both empires, a good review of Mainland Thyatis, but not very much on Alphatia and his magic (especially if confronted with Glantri) and even less on the colonies (only capitals, rulers and population). I think this boxed set leaves too many "holes" to be filled, especially on the Alphatian side. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:04:56 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Various questions > > Did anyone of you buy the AD&D Mystara boxes: Karameikos & Glantri ? > > Are they only an AD&D conversion of D&D stuff updated at AC1010 and a > > CD or can I find there something more interesting ? > > They're pretty much updated AD&D conversions with (really, > howlingly, astoundingly awful) CDs and pretty art. Some stuff > (especially in Glantri) appears to have gotten lost in the > conversion to boot. My advice - save your money for something else. > Okay ... what about Mark of Amber, the CD adventure that was produced as a companion piece to the Glantri boxed set? Anyone taken a look at it? Would appreciate a plot summary, and so forth -- and I won't buy it myself (I don't buy stuff I can't use, and I don't have a CD player). Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: In-jaul Tan Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 09:52:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] An appology (fwd) Due to the negligence of my college (either that or they did this on purpose, I haven't figured this out yet), they erased my email account some time between 10am and 5pm on Friday (January 12) without even telling me. Ever since then, any email headed for my account may have been returned to you (authors). I have just had my account re-created (I won't get the files that were in there until at least Tuesday), but I thought I should appologise for the junkmail you might have gotten over the weekend. Unfortunately, that means that anything meant for me and sent over the weekend is gone as well (this I won't be able to recover). Sorry for all the problems. ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 15:30:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] My server died, lost all email My apologies to everybody. My server went down Friday evening and only came back up this afternoon (Tuesday). I lost any email anybody sent me, whether on the mailing list or the PBeMs I play. I hope that if it's important, you can resend it. Again, my apologies. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 00:21:25 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! At 21.26 14/01/96 -0700, you wrote: > I've seen the new catalog. Red Steel is there. I've seen their catalog on the web (http://users.aol.com/tsrinc/1996/) and it seems TSR will publish a new setting named Savage Coast !! There will be a campaign book, a monstrum compendium, a novel and an accessory on the Orc's Head Peninsula. The short review of this products also speaks of "Red Curse" and "legacies". Isn't this the same stuff of Red Steel (aka a part of Mystara) ? :-) Aside from a >novel (Dragonmage of Mystara, by Thorarrin Gunnarson) there is no other new >Mystara stuff coming out next year. > So, unless they decided to give the Mystara section a year-long >vacation ... Did you see the web catalog or the paper one ? Because on the web they are adding something every day. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 21:03:31 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! > > I've seen the new catalog. Red Steel is there. > > I've seen their catalog on the web (http://users.aol.com/tsrinc/1996/) and > it seems TSR will publish a new setting named Savage Coast !! There will be > a campaign book, a monstrum compendium, a novel and an accessory on the > Orc's Head Peninsula. > The short review of this products also speaks of "Red Curse" and "legacies". > Isn't this the same stuff of Red Steel (aka a part of Mystara) ? :-) > That's what I said. Red Steel is in the catalog, exploring the Savage Coast region of Mystara. However, this area is not standard Mystara-style fantasy (gunpowder? natural magical powers?) > Aside from a > >novel (Dragonmage of Mystara, by Thorarrin Gunnarson) there is no other new > >Mystara stuff coming out next year. > > So, unless they decided to give the Mystara section a year-long > >vacation ... > > Did you see the web catalog or the paper one ? Because on the web they are > adding something every day. > Both, Fabrizio. Both. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: jam@wimsey.com (strawberryJAMM) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 21:08 PST Subject: [Mystara] Research on The Immortals Hi listers, First, I'm giving official notice that Oeystein H. Lund has asked to take on the "Research" for the Immortal Arik. Please feel free to send him any info and or creative suggestions that you may have. His e-mail address is: stein1@spring.com Second, I'ts good to see what Cthulhudrew has put together! Now we just need to get some discussion going on what could be extrapolated from what he has presented so that we can, perhaps, flesh these Immortals out a bit more. Also, it occured to me that it might be useful (at least for those of us who are *really* unfamiliar with a particular Immortal) that if anything which isn't "TSR Cannon" (i.e. not written down in any TSR product) is included in the "research", it is somehow marked in the post. Third, are there any further thoughts on what should/should not be included in a description/listing for our "Immortal Archives"? I think that Cthulhudrew has done a great job so far, and he seems to have covered all the real important topics. Ta! - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- - -- strawberry JAMM -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield jam@wimsey.com -- http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/jamjar.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Black Holes Are Merely Where God Divided By Zero" -- unknown ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #41 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #42 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, 18 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 042 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 06:37:14 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Immortals posts Oops! StrawberryJAMM is right- I should have marked what info was made up by myself and what was TSR canon when I posted Forsetta and Cretia. It shouldn't be too tough to figure out, I don't think, considering the scant info provided in the past. The major things as I see them are these: Nowhere is it mentioned, or even implied, that Forsetta and Ottar the Just are the same person. That is something from my own campaign, but one which I think makes some good sense, and keeps a sense of these oldtime heroes becoming immortals. Umm... let me think- I kept the spheres and levels, alignments, the same. I made up the statistics (obviously), and Forsetta's symbol, though Cretia's symbol was taken from X#- Curse of Xanathon. That's the main stuff there. The interests and allies/enemies were extrapolations of my own, based on their interests as stated in TSR canon (Vestland and the Khanates) and I wanted to give them some things to do. Forsetta's interests (lawfulness) were not elaborated on much anywhere, so I expanded them a bit, and kept him somewhat active, yet at a level near equal to what his ranking (Temporal level) would probably be- fairly isolated. Also, I tried to incorporated some ideas in their interests that would give them something to do both pre and post WOtI- one of my biggest peeves about that was that so many immortals just sat back and did absolutely zip about the whole thing. I have many more ideas on specific interests during those periods for both of those immortals, and may post them with the fully complete immortals postings when we get them done. Any other suggestions, comments, criticisms out there? ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 06:45:23 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Nithians, et al I have come up with an interesting question, though I cannot verify certain information at the moment. Anyhoo, it pertains to the Outer World Hutaakans, those pitiful few who are left, anyway. In the campaign I am currently running, I am going to have my players discover their valley, a la B10- Night's Dark Terror, with some substantial modifications for my campaign. Anyway, the end result, I am thinking, will probably be a rediscovery of this civilization, and their re-entry into the Known World(albeit very different, following their immortal abandonment... heh, heh) The question is this- according to my figuring (like I said, I can't verify the timeline right now, but I will when I get home- I'm working)- the Hutaakans are probably the only peoples in the world with fairly accurate records of the Nithians. I mean, if they had already left for their valley, and basically dropped off the face of the map, as far as the immortals are concerned, wouldn't they probably still have information on the ancient outer world Nithian empire? Leads to some interesting speculations, particularly if they weren't completely abandoned by the immortals, but rather turned to the worship of a similar, yet drastically different (interest wise) immortal than Pflarr? One who, say, not only had a hand in the corruption of Nithia, but who had its interests in mind? (kudos to those of you who can name the immortal I'm referring to...) Leads to some very interesting speculations, especially if that information should ever turn up again.... ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 06:46:10 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] On second thought... Okay, that last wasn't really a question at all, but more like just a tangent of thought for you all to ruminate on... ------------------------------ From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 15:59:45 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithians, et al > > I have come up with an interesting question, though I cannot verify > certain information at the moment. > > Anyhoo, it pertains to the Outer World Hutaakans, those pitiful few who > are left, anyway. In the campaign I am currently running, I am going to > have my players discover their valley, a la B10- Night's Dark Terror, > with some substantial modifications for my campaign. > > Anyway, the end result, I am thinking, will probably be a rediscovery of > this civilization, and their re-entry into the Known World(albeit very > different, following their immortal abandonment... heh, heh) > > The question is this- according to my figuring (like I said, I can't > verify the timeline right now, but I will when I get home- I'm working)- > the Hutaakans are probably the only peoples in the world with fairly > accurate records of the Nithians. I mean, if they had already left for > their valley, and basically dropped off the face of the map, as far as > the immortals are concerned, wouldn't they probably still have > information on the ancient outer world Nithian empire? Leads to some > interesting speculations, particularly if they weren't completely > abandoned by the immortals, but rather turned to the worship of a > similar, yet drastically different (interest wise) immortal than Pflarr? > One who, say, not only had a hand in the corruption of Nithia, but who > had its interests in mind? (kudos to those of you who can name the > immortal I'm referring to...) > > Leads to some very interesting speculations, especially if that > information should ever turn up again.... > Well, the idea is interesting, but if the immortals that destroyed Nithia and transported them into the Hollow World have made their job well, the archives and/or oral stories about Nithia should have been destroyed or erased from the memories of the Hutaakans as well. I mean, they did it with the other cultures, why would have they not with the Hutaakans, just because they were isolated, with no contact with other civilizations? It was sure that one day or the other, some bold adventurers would re-discover them, wasn't it? So why would they have left that possibility that Nithian's heritage could be rediscovered as well? - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 12:25:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Kogolor GAZ? Ok, how about a group project on a Kogolor GAZ? First, we need a list of all the things that should be discused. Those of you with more GAZes and HWRs then me(2 only-Milenia and Nithia) can help more with what are the basic things TSR puts in. Also, what has T$R left out that we should include? A map would be difficult because I doubt someone wants to use photoshop or such to draw an in-depth map but ost of the rest can be done with text. Bumblebee:That was Swindle, a Combaticonm. They're Decepticons. Roland:This sure is getting complicated. We should've just taken the F in science. (Ain't weird quotes that make no sense cool?) ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 12:45:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects On Mon, 8 Jan 1996, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > I believe someone was already working on Skothar? Davania was glossed > > over briefly in Champions of Mystara. Wendar would be nice to hear more > > about as well as the rest of the HW. > > Where are Skothar and Wendar? Are the freeholds the only undeveloped > known world setting?(Knwo world=expert rulebook map, not outer world map)> > Skothar is the continent East of Alphatia. Wendar is NW of Glantri, part of the old Elven Homeland. I believe CM7 Tree of Life has some info on it but that's all I know offhand. > > Rakasta, Tortles, and Lupins are detailed in the Red Steel boxed set. > > The lizardman of the savage coast were in Dragon #185. Phanatons were in > > Dragon #188. All 4 Creature Crucibles have some interesting races. I'd > > be interesting in hearing of more, or AD&D stats for any of the above > > that aren't already. > > Well, Rakasta for ODND was here, and both them and lupines were here in > ADND. Tortles? > Tortles. Tortoise people. They were mentioned in Voyage of the Princess Ark, and the Red Steel Boxed set has them as a new race. > What is Red Steel boxed set? A new ADND thing? Sort of. Its been for a few months (at least six). It describes the Savage Coast (Voyage of the Princess Ark) in AD&D terms and post-wrath time. > What races were in each of the PC books? I've seen 1 and 3. That needs its own post. I have all but PC4 so I can compile most of it. > AC10 has new PC races, from waht i've heard. Hollow World has a few new > ones, too. The HW races were mostly variants on the standard human, but I believe there were a few like Orcs and Lizardmen. > _________________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 12:52:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Introing myself On Mon, 8 Jan 1996, Daniel Boese wrote: > Greets, all! > > I just found this list after about a decade of looking for something > similar. :) I'm quite the fan of Mystara, and hope to see and contribute > to some discussions about it. > > Some questions (ignore at will :) ): > > Will TSR be printing anything new for Mystara? I heard that the only new > supplements will be in Dragon, or for Red Steel. Sort of. Mystara, D&D, and the HW have all been discontinued. Red Steel has been added to the AD&D Odyssey series, whatever that is. So expect the next actual product about June or so, and go ask a netrep on alt.games.frp.dnd what we can expect to see. > Will there be any more Poor Wizard/Joshuan's Almanacs? No. > What is considered 'canon', and 'net-canon' about M/HW/KW/RS? Good question, deserves good answer. I don't have one though. > Has anybody compiled the pre-Champions of Mystara logs of the Princess > Ark? Or the geographical/social/etc information? If anyone has send it please. As a matter of fact send the whole thing since Champions left out half the info. > Is there any recommended dates for setting the OD&D modules? (eg, X3 > Curse of Xanathon, as well as several others, are indirectly referred to > in Josh's Almanac) They are? Well all the modules (except X2, X10 and possibly X4, X5) are supposed to be set during AC1000+ X2 is about AC950 or so. X10 is debatable and X4/5 fit right before X10 or just after, or maybe anywhere you want. ______________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 12:59:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Various questions On Tue, 9 Jan 1996 brizio@lunet.it wrote: > In Gaz11 (Darokin) there is a chapter about weather generation, road > conditions and random mishaps, but the list of mishaps is missed. Where can > I find it ? Good question, I never noticed it was missing (are you missing a page?). > Another question: Gaz13 (Shadow Elves) states that shamans cannot use their > soul crystal above ground because they crumble tu dust. Is this effective > also for the Alfheim invasion described in WOTI. I would assume so, but the Shadow Elves could have made Alfheim, or a small section dark enough to protect the crystals from sun light. I'd say its your call as DM. > Last question: if a cleric of the church of Karameikos asks his DM (me) whic > immortal he should worship, what should I tell him ? Depends. According to the AD&D Karameikos Box, the clerics in Karameikos either follow a lawful philosophy type religion, or worship Halav, Zirchev, and/or somebody will in Halav's girlfriends name cause I forget. _________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 13:01:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Joseph DuBois wrote: > Listers, > > > Just a basic question? > > > Q: What is the radius of Mystara? 3,095 miles. According to PWA1. > > Scooby > _________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 13:11:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] spells On Wed, 10 Jan 1996 brizio@lunet.it wrote: > In the GAZ series, at least 3 MU spell systems are described: the human one, > the one of Alfheim elves and the one of Shadow elves. > What happens, for example, if a Shadow Elf goes in Glantri and learns Sleep > (i.e. one of the spells unknown in his caves). Can he cast it ? If yes, what > happens when I goes back to his underground realm ? Can he cast the spell > there? Can he sell "Sleep" to other elves ? > If yes, then in a reasonable period of time that spell will spread all over > the realm and sooner or later there wouldn't be those different spell system > in Mystara... or at least in the Known World. > In Dragon #175 page 46 Bruce Heard states that human cannot use elven magic > and vice versa. > I don't agree with him, let me know your views. > According to the Alfheim Gaz, humans can't learn Elven magic because it requires access to a Tree of Life. The Elves _can_ teach a human regular spells (see the forester class from Dawn of the Emperors), just not the additional spells mention as "Forest Way" spells. So unless I'm missing something your Shadow Elves can learn sleep and take it back. Teaching it may get them in trouble with the priests, bringing in evil foreign magics and such, but that's up to you. ________________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 11:48:03 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Introing myself > They are? Well all the modules (except X2, X10 and possibly X4, X5) are > supposed to be set during AC1000+ X2 is about AC950 or so. X10 is > debatable and X4/5 fit right before X10 or just after, or maybe anywhere > you want. Actually, according to Champions of Mystara, they're set (with certain modifications, like "DON'T LET YOUR PLAYERS KILL THE MASTER") in AC 1005-1006. X7 Quagmire, can be set "as is" in a very ancient (Before Crowning) period, or used with modifications in another period. The above are from Champions of Mystara. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: gemjmd@kodak.com (Joseph DuBois (x44303)) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 14:04:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Kogolor GAZ? > > > Ok, how about a group project on a Kogolor GAZ? First, we need a list > of all the things that should be discused. Those of you with more GAZes > and HWRs then me(2 only-Milenia and Nithia) can help more with what are > the basic things TSR puts in. Also, what has T$R left out that we should > include? A map would be difficult because I doubt someone wants to use > photoshop or such to draw an in-depth map but ost of the rest can be done > with text. I haven't been following all the posts as close as I should have. (Way too many) 1] So where is Kogolor? 2] Is it in the hollow world or on the outerworld? 3] Where on the world were/are they? Thanks Scooby ------------------------------ From: Urklore The Iron Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 14:36:09 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] test post ************************************************************************ * Bill Schwartz, Billcutis of Borg, Iceman Incarnate, Internet Lord * * Galaxy Ranger (With Series-5 Brain Implant and Bio-Defenses) * * Leader of ANIME ADVENTURERS, Finisher of the World of XEEN, Tea Lord * * Level 7.5 DM, Keeper of the Netdisks, Keeper of 78 RPG Systems * * Slave to the all powerful JOLT, Forever Knight Vampire Fledgling * * Level 6.5 Thief (Evil insane mocking laughter), ROBOTECH Master * * "Die Autobots!!", "Clearly I can not choose the wine in front of me" * * "It musst give usss our preciousss!", "Warp 7.....Engage!." * * "Orbots Unite!", "Blood and Souls for my Lord Arioch!" * ************************************************************************ ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 00:01:47 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Introing myself At 12.52 17/01/96 -0500, you wrote: > >> Will there be any more Poor Wizard/Joshuan's Almanacs? >No. > So, why don't we make something like a timeline of events for 1014 AC ? At http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/mystara/index.html there is an empty page waiting for our timeline. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 00:14:33 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Kogolor GAZ? At 14.04 17/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >> Ok, how about a group project on a Kogolor GAZ? First, we need a list >> of all the things that should be discused. Those of you with more GAZes >> and HWRs then me(2 only-Milenia and Nithia) can help more with what are >> the basic things TSR puts in. Also, what has T$R left out that we should >> include? A map would be difficult because I doubt someone wants to use >> photoshop or such to draw an in-depth map but ost of the rest can be done >> with text. > There was someone (the one of Toowin's travels) that was preparing .gif files for making maps. I don't remember his name. > > I haven't been following all the posts as close as I should have. >(Way too many) > >1] So where is Kogolor? In the HW. >2] Is it in the hollow world or on the outerworld? In the HW! :-) >3] Where on the world were/are they? Now they are ummm... in the HW, I think. Eastern Iciria, just north of the equator and the valley of the Hutaaka. Before they were the only dwarfs of Mystara and they lived in the mountains of Brun, like modern day Rockhome dwarfes. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 00:34:22 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Various questions At 12.59 17/01/96 -0500, you wrote: > > >On Tue, 9 Jan 1996 brizio@lunet.it wrote: > >> In Gaz11 (Darokin) there is a chapter about weather generation, road >> conditions and random mishaps, but the list of mishaps is missed. Where can >> I find it ? > >Good question, I never noticed it was missing (are you missing a page?). > I don't think I miss a page. Please check your Gaz11 and tell me where can I find something about mishaps. In the player's guide (page 23) it says "There'll be more on mishaps later in this section.". Then at page 28: "(...) terrain, weather, road conditions, and random mishaps will affect a caravan's Final Movement Rate.". After this I have 3 chapters on Terrain, Weather and Road Conditions (pages 28-29), but nothing about mishaps. On page 30 there is an image and a text named "Across the borderlands", on the following page I have only a big image and some empty space. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 01:35:14 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithians, et al On Wed, 17 Jan 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: > > > > I have come up with an interesting question, though I cannot verify > > certain information at the moment. [ SNIP] > > verify the timeline right now, but I will when I get home- I'm working)- > > the Hutaakans are probably the only peoples in the world with fairly > > accurate records of the Nithians. I mean, if they had already left for [SNIP] > > similar, yet drastically different (interest wise) immortal than Pflarr? > > One who, say, not only had a hand in the corruption of Nithia, but who > > had its interests in mind? (kudos to those of you who can name the > > immortal I'm referring to...) > > > > Leads to some very interesting speculations, especially if that > > information should ever turn up again.... > > > > Well, the idea is interesting, but if the immortals that destroyed Nithia > and transported them into the Hollow World have made their job well, the > archives and/or oral stories about Nithia should have been destroyed or > erased from the memories of the Hutaakans as well. I mean, they did it with > the other cultures, why would have they not with the Hutaakans, just because > they were isolated, with no contact with other civilizations? It was sure that > one day or the other, some bold adventurers would re-discover them, wasn't it? > So why would they have left that possibility that Nithian's heritage could be > rediscovered as well? First off - ye're talking about Thanatos there, aren't you ? *shudder* Because if you are.... I like the idea a lot. Along with the preservation of records about Nithia, would they have preserved some of their magic ? I am specifically thinking of the undead-related magics the nithian lich from the Alfheim gazetter had. If they have - Karameikos might be in trouble the day some insane magic-user like the ever-popular Bargle or someone similar get their hands on it... Second - if Thanatos, the second-most powerful Entropic Immortal (pre-WotI), decides to preserve some of the knowledge about the culture he helped 'create', who'll stop him ? I can't see anyone managing to pull that one off. Remember - the only reason Hel is the reigning hierarch pre-WotI is that Thanatos didn't want to be before the events set down in WotI. That is, given the Grim Reaper's penchant for concentrating on his own plots and lovingly craft an individual or a nation's downfall with the same care - does anyone think Hel could avoid the same fate if Thanatos wanted the job ? I haven't used WotI, and I'm not planning to either, but - at some point in my campaign Thanatos is going to make an attempt at wiping out all life on the planet and replace it with undead creatures. I'm not going to write a whole lot more about that though, seeing as one of the players is on this list... ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 01:42:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects On Wed, 17 Jan 1996, StarHawk wrote: > > > Skothar is the continent East of Alphatia. > Wendar is NW of Glantri, part of the old Elven Homeland. I believe CM7 > Tree of Life has some info on it but that's all I know offhand. > Nope. Wendar is north and west of the Heldann Freeholds, but north-northeast of Glantri. And although there's a single clan of elves living in the forest of Wendar, that doesn't make it an elven land. X11 - Saga od the Shadow Lord makes it plain (I re-read it last night) that Wendar is a human land allied to Thyatis with a single elven clan settled in two-three scattered communities in the forests. And Gylharen the Wizard-King is plainly human - both when the PC's meet him, and when he's tossing 6th level spells through the Elvenstar. Oh, there's a few spoiler points I could make about the plot of the module as well, but I think I'd better refrain from that right now. If anyone wants to hear them, I'll send a summary in private email. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #42 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #43 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Friday, 19 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 043 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 9:23:09 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithians, et al > I haven't used WotI, and I'm not planning to either, but - at some > point in my campaign Thanatos is going to make an attempt at wiping out > all life on the planet and replace it with undead creatures. I'm not > going to write a whole lot more about that though, seeing as one of the > players is on this list... > Remember, Thanatos's goal is the destruction of all life from Mystara, but not replacing it with undead (that's Nyx's goal). Also remember that it's not in Thanatos's temper to use mass destruction to kill everybody (sounds more like Alphaks or Orcus's way of doing it), but he prefers using more subtle (and cunning) plans. - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 9:25:02 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] Introing myself > > At 12.52 17/01/96 -0500, you wrote: > > > > >> Will there be any more Poor Wizard/Joshuan's Almanacs? > >No. > > > So, why don't we make something like a timeline of events for 1014 AC ? > At http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/mystara/index.html there is an empty > page waiting for our timeline. > > > ************** > Fabrizio Paoli > DM in City Of The Stars > aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr > ************** > > Yes, we should. But I think before doing 1014 we should finish 1013 (as much of it was not dealt with in Joshuan's Almanach, notably the Hollow World and such). - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 01:37:11 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithians, et al On Thu, 18 Jan 1996, Oeystein H. Lund. wrote: > > > similar, yet drastically different (interest wise) immortal than Pflarr? > > > One who, say, not only had a hand in the corruption of Nithia, but who > > > had its interests in mind? (kudos to those of you who can name the > > > immortal I'm referring to...) > > > > > > Leads to some very interesting speculations, especially if that > > > information should ever turn up again.... > > > First off - ye're talking about Thanatos there, aren't you ? Actually, Ranivorus, but he and the Than man share similar Nithian interests.. > *shudder* > Because if you are.... I like the idea a lot. Along with the preservation > of records about Nithia, would they have preserved some of their magic ? > I am specifically thinking of the undead-related magics the nithian lich > from the Alfheim gazetter had. If they have - Karameikos might be in > trouble the day some insane magic-user like the ever-popular Bargle or > someone similar get their hands on it... > > Second - if Thanatos, the second-most powerful Entropic Immortal > (pre-WotI), decides to preserve some of the knowledge about the culture > he helped 'create', who'll stop him ? I can't see anyone managing to pull > that one off. > I see after reading the HW manual on Nithia that the immortals supposedly cast a huge spell obliterating all knowledge of the Nithians, period. I don't particularly subscribe to this for a couple of reasons, 1) as much as I like some of Aaron Allston's work, I feel that he has made the immortals more like gods than was originally intended. I much prefer the idea of immortals as superhuman beings, not omnipotent ones, and as such, fallible, perhaps leaving some traces behind. If and when they turn up again, doubtless they will try to eliminate them, but after what happens in WOtI, many immortals will stand against this sort of blatant manipulation... actually, I guess that no. 1 up there is pretty much the only reason I don't like that idea of the spell of Obliteration. Anyhoo, this was mainly an exercise of my warped mind to see how much havok I could create in the world and my campaign, and to perhaps spur some twisted thoughts out there as well. Thanatos would be just as likely a source of alternative worship for the Hutaakans as Ranivorus, and I am sure that jointly, they could have managed to preserve some elements of the culture from prying eyes... and with their patience, even waiting hundreds of thousands of years for it to pop up again isn't too long... maybe they even precipitated the WOtI, in order to rouse anti- mortal manipulating sympathies amongst the immortals to ensure that the Nithian fiasco would not happen to them again... Of course, maybe Thanatos is behind the whole JFK thing too, who knows? :) ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 03:57:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithians, et al On Thu, 18 Jan 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: > > I haven't used WotI, and I'm not planning to either, but - at some > > point in my campaign Thanatos is going to make an attempt at wiping out > > all life on the planet and replace it with undead creatures. I'm not > > going to write a whole lot more about that though, seeing as one of the > > players is on this list... > Remember, Thanatos's goal is the destruction of all life from Mystara, but not > replacing it with undead (that's Nyx's goal). Also remember that it's not in > Thanatos's temper to use mass destruction to kill everybody (sounds more like > Alphaks or Orcus's way of doing it), but he prefers using more subtle (and > cunning) plans. Ah, yes - but who said the undead would have the lifespans of the undead that Nyx think they'll have ? Just because Thanatos suckered her into joining the Plan - doesn't mean that her aims will be met. (Bjarte, DON'T read this ! Please !) Thanatos made a nifty Black Sword out of a Holy SWord of Ixion that used to belong to an order of paladins - specifically, he caused one member of the order to murder another with the sword, thereby polluting the Blade. Thereafter, he inserted the soul of the murderer into the blade, and took the soulless but still living body with him to his home plane.. Meanwhile, he ressurected the murdered one as a Death Knight - his final words had been a curse of vengeance over his brother who'd slain him out of jealousy. Telling the Death Knight that he'd have his revenge if he took the Blade to a place called the Nine Fountains, and use the power therein to rend the barriers between life and death to call the murderer back, Thanatos handed over the sword. The Death Knight managed to lose the Blade to a concerted effort by the order of Paladins that were the rightful owners, but it had already been defiled beyond measure, and was useless to them - and then Blackmoor blew up, and the order fell apart. The sword found it's way into the treasure of a green dragon, and the Death Knight faded from this world. (That's a short summary - the details are a 30K file sitting in my 'puter at home.) Time passess, and 3000ish years later an Ancient green dragon, sucessor to the one in the sory, loses a fight with some mortals, and they discover the SWord. It promptly steals 1/7th of the soul of the Mage in the party, and reawakens the Death Knight. Now then - if the Death Knight can recover the sword, he'll try to find the Nine Fountains, and there cleave the barrier between life and death, thus releasing the spirits of ALL the dead since the world began. Major oops. Incidentally, this will convert all lifeforms into undead. Another oops. And the newly-converted undead will lack one basic aspect of being undead - that is, they'll not be ageless. And as time passes, they'll 'die' of old age - that is, even their spirit will fall apart and crumble. Huge oops. And they won't be able to reproduce, being undead. And the 'awakened Dead' will be of the same semi-permanent nature. Oh dear. For all of this, Thanatos would like to extend his thanks to Nyx, without whom none of this would have been possible. That is, without her knowledge of undead, he'd never be able to make the undead he wanted. ------------------------------ From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 12:25:45 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithians, et al (Bjarte don't read this either) > > > On Thu, 18 Jan 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: > > > I haven't used WotI, and I'm not planning to either, but - at some > > > point in my campaign Thanatos is going to make an attempt at wiping out > > > all life on the planet and replace it with undead creatures. I'm not > > > going to write a whole lot more about that though, seeing as one of the > > > players is on this list... > > Remember, Thanatos's goal is the destruction of all life from Mystara, but not > > replacing it with undead (that's Nyx's goal). Also remember that it's not in > > Thanatos's temper to use mass destruction to kill everybody (sounds more like > > Alphaks or Orcus's way of doing it), but he prefers using more subtle (and > > cunning) plans. > > Ah, yes - but who said the undead would have the lifespans of the > undead that Nyx think they'll have ? Just because Thanatos suckered her > into joining the Plan - doesn't mean that her aims will be met. > (Bjarte, DON'T read this ! Please !) > > > > > Thanatos made a nifty Black Sword out of a Holy SWord of Ixion that > used to belong to an order of paladins - specifically, he caused one > member of the order to murder another with the sword, thereby polluting > the Blade. Thereafter, he inserted the soul of the murderer into the > blade, and took the soulless but still living body with him to his home > plane.. Meanwhile, he ressurected the murdered one as a Death Knight - > his final words had been a curse of vengeance over his brother who'd > slain him out of jealousy. Telling the Death Knight that he'd have his > revenge if he took the Blade to a place called the Nine Fountains, and use > the power therein to rend the barriers between life and death to call the > murderer back, Thanatos handed over the sword. > The Death Knight managed to lose the Blade to a concerted effort by the > order of Paladins that were the rightful owners, but it had already been > defiled beyond measure, and was useless to them - and then Blackmoor blew > up, and the order fell apart. The sword found it's way into the treasure > of a green dragon, and the Death Knight faded from this world. (That's a > short summary - the details are a 30K file sitting in my 'puter at home.) > Time passess, and 3000ish years later an Ancient green dragon, sucessor > to the one in the sory, loses a fight with some mortals, and they > discover the SWord. It promptly steals 1/7th of the soul of the Mage in > the party, and reawakens the Death Knight. > Now then - if the Death Knight can recover the sword, he'll try to find > the Nine Fountains, and there cleave the barrier between life and death, > thus releasing the spirits of ALL the dead since the world began. > Major oops. > Incidentally, this will convert all lifeforms into undead. > Another oops. > And the newly-converted undead will lack one basic aspect of being > undead - that is, they'll not be ageless. And as time passes, they'll > 'die' of old age - that is, even their spirit will fall apart and crumble. > Huge oops. > And they won't be able to reproduce, being undead. > And the 'awakened Dead' will be of the same semi-permanent nature. > Oh dear. > > For all of this, Thanatos would like to extend his thanks to Nyx, > without whom none of this would have been possible. That is, without her > knowledge of undead, he'd never be able to make the undead he wanted. > > > Ok, that is the sort of plot Thanatos loves, grand, smart and earthshaking. But I don't think Nyx would let him go away with it :) She would her best to keep the undead non-mortal. BTW, I don't see how they would age and decay, since undeads are supposed to be closely tied to the negative energy plane which feeds them. - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 06:18:01 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithians, et al On Thu, 18 Jan 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: > (Bjarte don't read this either) > > > > > Ah, yes - but who said the undead would have the lifespans of the > > undead that Nyx think they'll have ? Just because Thanatos suckered her > > into joining the Plan - doesn't mean that her aims will be met. > > (Bjarte, DON'T read this ! Please !) [SNIP my plot - ya'll have seen it anyway] > > Incidentally, this will convert all lifeforms into undead. > > Another oops. > > And the newly-converted undead will lack one basic aspect of being > > undead - that is, they'll not be ageless. And as time passes, they'll > > 'die' of old age - that is, even their spirit will fall apart and crumble. > > Huge oops. > > For all of this, Thanatos would like to extend his thanks to Nyx, > > without whom none of this would have been possible. That is, without her > > knowledge of undead, he'd never be able to make the undead he wanted. > > > > Ok, that is the sort of plot Thanatos loves, grand, smart and earthshaking. > But I don't think Nyx would let him go away with it :) She would her best to > keep the undead non-mortal. BTW, I don't see how they would age and decay, since > undeads are supposed to be closely tied to the negative energy plane which > feeds them. The trick lies in not killing them per se - just removing the 'barrier' between life and undeath, and filling the living with negative plane energy. Thys they'll retain some basic characeristics of 'life', namely a connection to the sphere of time, and thus age - but being negative-plane creatures, they'll have allof the disads of being undead without actually being dead. Incidentally, this won't affect all the current undead - they will remain unchanged. But Thanatos figures on mopping up those as soon as the other Immortals give up on the now-completely-dead planet. On the other hand, there's this Blackmoorian Lich that was none too happy with Thanatos for deliberately sabotaging the nuclear power plant he worked at, thus setting off the destruction of Blackmoor and changing him from a living being to a lich. He's doubly mad because Thanatos (in mortal form) was the one who gave them the plans for building the nuclear power plant in the first place. This is a potential source of aid for the PC's - if they can figure out a way to keep him from killing them out of hand and inform him of what they think is happening... ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 14:33:23 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] glantrian language There was some confusion on the part of TSR about the language spoken in Glantri. PWA 1 puts the Thyatian as the common tongue with Flaemish, Elvish, Traladaran and Ethengarian also spoken. In some Gaz there are glantrian ambassadors or wizards and they all speak Glantrian, and that should be different from Thyatian because Angus McClintock in Gaz10 speaks Glantrian, Thyatian and Scottish. Historically Glantri is made of many races (Thyatians, Alphathians, Ethengarians, Traladarans, Darokinians ...) so I think that many languages should be spoken there (also French and Scottish), but what is the common tongue ? Thyatian could be a reasonable choice because is widespread in the KW, but geographically and politically (at least before WOTI) the two countries aren't so close. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:16:10 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Various questions > On Tue, 9 Jan 1996 brizio@lunet.it wrote: > > > In Gaz11 (Darokin) there is a chapter about weather generation, road > > conditions and random mishaps, but the list of mishaps is missed. Where can > > I find it ? > > Good question, I never noticed it was missing (are you missing a page?). Player's Section, near the end. Can't miss it, just after the merchant class, lot's of small charts. > > Another question: Gaz13 (Shadow Elves) states that shamans cannot use their > > soul crystal above ground because they crumble tu dust. Is this effective > > also for the Alfheim invasion described in WOTI. > > I would assume so, but the Shadow Elves could have made Alfheim, or a > small section dark enough to protect the crystals from sun light. I'd > say its your call as DM. I agree that it's the DM's call, only because my opinion of the invasion is well known and I'm too sick to rant today. > > Last question: if a cleric of the church of Karameikos asks his DM (me) whic > > immortal he should worship, what should I tell him ? > > Depends. According to the AD&D Karameikos Box, the clerics in Karameikos > either follow a lawful philosophy type religion, or worship Halav, > Zirchev, and/or somebody will in Halav's girlfriends name cause I forget. No. Those are the Gods of the Traladaran Church (Halav the King, Petra the Queen-Defender, Zirchev the Hunter and Chardastes the Healer). The Karameikan Church is an off-shoot of the Thyatian Church (Asterius, Ixion, Valerias, Vanya, Tarastia, Ilsundal - that's it I think). HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:02:57 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] glantrian language On Thu, 18 Jan 1996 brizio@lunet.it wrote: > There was some confusion on the part of TSR about the language spoken in > Glantri. Yeah, well, that's pretty much par for the course ... > PWA 1 puts the Thyatian as the common tongue with Flaemish, Elvish, > Traladaran and Ethengarian also spoken. In some Gaz there are glantrian > ambassadors or wizards and they all speak Glantrian, and that should be > different from Thyatian because Angus McClintock in Gaz10 speaks Glantrian, > Thyatian and Scottish. This I would put to poor editorial coordination at TSR. > Historically Glantri is made of many races (Thyatians, Alphathians, > Ethengarians, Traladarans, Darokinians ...) so I think that many languages > should be spoken there (also French and Scottish), but what is the common > tongue ? Thyatian could be a reasonable choice because is widespread in the > KW, but geographically and politically (at least before WOTI) the two > countries aren't so close. Hum. Well, I would say that you could rule that Glantrian is an artificial language designed to give the various wizards a common technical vocabulary. All materials on the various secret schools is written in Glantrian, and so forth. My feeling is that since Etienne D'Ambreville was in charge of the Great School, "Glantrian" would probably be based on Etienne's French (which may or may not be exactly like real-world Medieval French ...) with loan words from Flaemish, Belcadizan Elvish, Alphatian, and Thyatian. Since Glantrian is mostly the language of nobility, it isn't exactly the Common Tongue. The various peasants would all speak the language of their area, and not any other ... as GAZ3 points out, Glantri's system is designed to keep the masters in power above all else, and the surest way to remove any chance of rebellion is to ensure that the potential rebels can't talk to each other. Alternatively, the common speech, used in trade mostly, could be Darokinian, because Darokin is Glantri's major trade partner. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:07:40 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects > Nope. Wendar is north and west of the Heldann Freeholds, but > north-northeast of Glantri. And although there's a single clan of elves > living in the forest of Wendar, that doesn't make it an elven land. > X11 - Saga od the Shadow Lord makes it plain (I re-read it last night) > that Wendar is a human land allied to Thyatis with a single elven clan > settled in two-three scattered communities in the forests. However, as PWA points out, it is more than passing strange that Wendar is allied to Thyatis, considering that they're separated by a large swath of territory. It helps to keep in mind though, that when this module was written, Thyatis was going to wind up conquering the entire Known World, as shown by the map in the Master's Set. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:11:53 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Regarding FUDGE... Hi Ann! The FUDGE rules arrived in Germany and I bought them today. After skimming through the book I felt I had to "voice my opinion" so here it is: Nice! Exteremely nice! :-) I hope to see supplements for FUDGE over here in Germany soon. Keep up the good work! By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:21:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] glantrian language It should be noted that Darokinian are for most part Thyatian, just people of Darokin don't want to admit it. My guess is most Glantrian speak both Thyatian and Flaemish or Glantrian which is a combination of the two language. - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | Will Work for Job!!! Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 08:20:06 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] glantrian language > It should be noted that Darokinian are for most part Thyatian, > just people of Darokin don't want to admit it. My guess is most Glantrian > speak both Thyatian and Flaemish or Glantrian which is a combination of the > two language. This is quite near to how it is in our campaing. For us Glantrian is actually a later name of the language of the flamish. The older language is called flaemish, but after A. Glantri and the new name of the nation, it has gaind a lot of impressions from the other languages, excpecially thyatis, so that the two are guite different (old and new english...). It means that a mage can speak both flaemish and glantrian... sometimes. Though all this is just a sceme of the flamish to hold on to their old stature in glantri, and its not running smoothly... the real common language around is really Thyatian... And by the way, for us Darokinian is thyatian, just like somebody said. But a much different dialect. So there is really three main languages in our known word, Thyatian (southern brun), Heldannic (northern brun) and alphatian (east). - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:01:58 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] glantrian language On Thu, 18 Jan 1996, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: > Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:21:45 -0500 (EST) > From: Shin Chyang Yu > To: mystara-l@io.com > Subject: Re: [Mystara] glantrian language > > It should be noted that Darokinian are for most part Thyatian, > just people of Darokin don't want to admit it. My guess is most Glantrian > speak both Thyatian and Flaemish or Glantrian which is a combination of the > two language. > Darokinians are actually possibly the most racially mixed people in the entire Known World ... I think the authors of the Darokin Gazetteer were writing a thinly disguised "Fantasy America" when they wrote it ... (great melting pot, and the rest of that) ... heck, it's even close to the American Indian area ... Darokin's language is probably mostly Thyatian, with a lot of Sindhi influence, maybe Traldar, Ylari, and ... what're the native peoples of Ierendi called? Oh well, you get my point. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #43 ****************************