From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #44 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Saturday, 20 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 044 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 02:04:28 -0600 (CST) Subject: [none] This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. - --0-262350613-822038668:#16113 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Attached is my notes concerning the official information in TSR sources and my current speculations about the information not covered in these. I'll work up the suit of powers I feel is most appropriate over the weekend and post them to the list as soon as I can - --0-262350613-822038668:#16113 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="arik.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: ICAgICAgICAgICAgQXJpayBvZiB0aGUgSHVuZHJlZCBFeWVzIC0gVHJhaXRv ciBhbmQgTmlnaHRtYXJlLg0KDQogIE9mZmljaWFsIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIDoN CiAgICAgICBBcmlrIC0gQ2VsZXN0aWFsLCBzcGhlcmUgb2YgRW50cm9waHks IGltcHJpc29uZWQgZm9yIHVuc3BlY2lmaWVkDQogICAgICAgY3JpbWVzIGhl aW5vdXMgZW5vdWdoIHRvIGdldCBoaW0gbG9ja2VkIGF3YXkgZnJvbSB0aGUg bXVsdGl2ZXJzZQ0KICAgICAgIGZvciBldGVybml0eS4gQmFuaXNoZWQgdG8g YSBwcmlzb24gZGltZW5zaW9uLCBoZSBzZWVrcyB3YXlzIHRvDQogICAgICAg cmV0dXJuIHRvIHRoZSBtdWx0aXZlcnNlLiAoQjMsIFdvdEkpDQogICAgICAg ICAgQXJpayB1c2VzIGdpYW50IHJ1YmllcyB0aGUgc2l6ZSBvZiBhIGxhcmdl IG1hbidzIGZpc3QgYXMNCiAgICAgICBoaXMgZXllcyAtIHRoZSBIdW5kcmVk IEV5ZXMgaW4gaGlzIHRpbGUuIFRoZXNlIGFyZSBkZXRhY2hhYmxlDQogICAg 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So there is really three main languages in >our known word, Thyatian (southern brun), Heldannic (northern brun) and >alphatian (east). > Ok, I read your answers on glantrian language, and now (PWA at hand) I'll try to write down the human languages spoken in the various countries and the links between them. (Both empire are as before WOTI) Alphatian (Alphatian Empire, Minaean Coast, Glantri (Flaemish), Helskir, Ochalea) Thyatian (Thyatian Empire, Alatian Islands,Five Shires, Glantri, Heldann (Hattian),Ierendi (for trade), Helskir, Karameikos, Norwold, Rockhome) Atruaghin (Atruaghin clans, probably different from clan to clan) Darokinian (Darokin, Five Shires, Ierendi, Sind (not much)) Milenian (many dialects in Davania) Thratian (Thyatian Hinterlands) Denagoth (Denagoth) Jennite (Jen, Esterhold, Minaean Coast) Ethengarian (Ethengar, Glantri) Traldaran (Karameikos, Glantri) Averoignian (Glantri) Urduk (Sind, Sind Desert, Barren Plain) Sindhi (Sind, Sind Desert, Barren Plain) Heldannic (Heldann, Northern Reaches, Norwold, Qeodhar, Wendar) Hulean (Hule) Makai (Ierendi) Nithian (Thotia) Minaean (Minaean Coast) Minrothad (Minrothad) Myoshiman (Myoshima) Nuar (Pearl Islands) Karimari (Ulimwengu) Yavdlom (Yavdlom) Ylari (Ylaruam) Now, if I remember well: Alphatian is an alien language Thyatian and Thratian should be related to Heldannic, but probably Thyatian has some Milenian influx. And Milenian comes from Traldaran (as Latin is someway related to ancient Greek). Atruaghin is a language similar to Azcan. Urduk and Sindhi should not be very different. Nuar and Yavdlom both comes from Tanagoro, the last has also some elvish influx. Minrothad is really a strange language (maybe some Nithian influence ?) Darokinian is a big mix of Thyatian, Sindhi, Ylari, Traldar, maybe some Elvish. If, as Chris said, Darokin is fantasy America, then Darokinian is fantasy American English... Glantrian is either something like Averoignian (for Chris and me) or a mix of Flaemish and Thyatian (as the others said). ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: jam@wimsey.com (strawberryJAMM) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 07:45 PST Subject: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V1 #43 >From: Herve MUSSEAU > >> I haven't used WotI, and I'm not planning to either, but - at some >> point in my campaign Thanatos is going to make an attempt at wiping out >> all life on the planet and replace it with undead creatures. I'm not >> going to write a whole lot more about that though, seeing as one of the >> players is on this list... > >Remember, Thanatos's goal is the destruction of all life from Mystara, but not >replacing it with undead (that's Nyx's goal). Also remember that it's not in >Thanatos's temper to use mass destruction to kill everybody (sounds more like >Alphaks or Orcus's way of doing it), but he prefers using more subtle (and >cunning) plans. Hmm, sounds like someone with a good handle on Thanatos, Alphaks and Orcus ... wanna do some research....... Bye! - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- - -- strawberry JAMM -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield jam@wimsey.com -- http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/jamjar.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Black Holes Are Merely Where God Divided By Zero" -- unknown ------------------------------ From: "Peter Donald" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 10:48:24 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] glantrian language > There was some confusion on the part of TSR about the language spoken in > Glantri. > PWA 1 puts the Thyatian as the common tongue with Flaemish, Elvish, > Traladaran and Ethengarian also spoken. In our campaign Glantrians speak Glantrian, which has strong roots in Flaemish and a couple of Elvish dialects, plus a *lot* of loan words from various other languages. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:22:57 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Regarding FUDGE... On Wed, 17 Jan 1996, Peter Froehlich wrote: > > The FUDGE rules arrived in Germany and I bought them today. After > skimming through the book I felt I had to "voice my opinion" so here it is: > > Nice! Exteremely nice! :-) > > I hope to see supplements for FUDGE over here in Germany soon. Keep up the > good work! > > By(T)e... > Peter... > Uh, Peter, this is a group to discuss TSR's world, Mystara, not Steffan O'Sullivan's free-form game, FUDGE. While a number of people here other than you and me are interested in discussing FUDGE (You Know Who You Are), this ain't the place for it. Try fudge-L at southwind.net Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:06:04 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara languages, was Glantrian language > Alphatian (Alphatian Empire, Minaean Coast, Glantri (Flaemish), Helskir, > Ochalea) > Thyatian (Thyatian Empire, Alatian Islands,Five Shires, Glantri, Heldann > (Hattian),Ierendi (for trade), Helskir, Karameikos, Norwold, Rockhome) > Atruaghin (Atruaghin clans, probably different from clan to clan) One of the clans -- the Horse Clan, I think -- doesn't have a spoken language but uses hand signals. > Darokinian (Darokin, Five Shires, Ierendi, Sind (not much)) > Milenian (many dialects in Davania) > Thratian (Thyatian Hinterlands) > Denagoth (Denagoth) > Jennite (Jen, Esterhold, Minaean Coast) > Ethengarian (Ethengar, Glantri) > Traldaran (Karameikos, Glantri) > Averoignian (Glantri) > Urduk (Sind, Sind Desert, Barren Plain) > Sindhi (Sind, Sind Desert, Barren Plain) > Heldannic (Heldann, Northern Reaches, Norwold, Qeodhar, Wendar) > Hulean (Hule) > Makai (Ierendi) That's what I was thinking of ... Darokinian probably has some loan words from this as well ... > Nithian (Thotia) Thothia. Also, the amount of time that's passed since Nithia's disappearance has probably changed the language more than a bit ... > Minaean (Minaean Coast) Almost certainly related to Jennite. And Jennite is probably a distant relation (like German and Hindic in the real world) of Ethengar ... > Minrothad (Minrothad) > Myoshiman (Myoshima) Um, why'd ya include this one if you didn't include any other non-human languages? > Nuar (Pearl Islands) > Karimari (Ulimwengu) > Yavdlom (Yavdlom) > Ylari (Ylaruam) > > Now, if I remember well: > Alphatian is an alien language So's Averoignian. And whatever Scots Gaelic is spoken in Klantyre (Kaelic? I like the sound of that ...) > Thyatian and Thratian should be related to Heldannic, but probably Thyatian > has some Milenian influx. And Milenian comes from Traldaran (as Latin is > someway related to ancient Greek). The Latins stole a lot of Greek words when they decided that they were more civilized than the Greeks. Moreover, Traldar has certain relations to Nithian, as well ... but much obscured ... > Atruaghin is a language similar to Azcan. And Oltec. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:28:11 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Arik: The Watcher. This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. - --0-262350613-822038668:#16113 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: > Arik of the Hundred Eyes - Traitor and Nightmare. > Official information : > Arik - Celestial, sphere of Entrophy, imprisoned for unspecified > crimes heinous enough to get him locked away from the multiverse > for eternity. Banished to a prison dimension, he seeks ways to > return to the multiverse. (B3, WotI) > Arik uses giant rubies the size of a large man's fist as > his eyes - the Hundred Eyes in his tile. These are detachable > at will, and functions as conduits for the Immortal's power. > This conduit functions across dimensions, and allows Arik > to wield Immortal-level power in a location without being actually > present. > His clerics customarily wear blood-red robes with hoods hiding > their faces, decorated with a hundred eyes - with plate mail > underneath. All carry shields with his symbol - a single large > red eye. > Kobolds and orcs are attracted to his service, and he has some > influence over minor undead like skeletons. > And that's it. > The issue at hand is to decide what exactly Arik is. > Obviously, he is an Entropic Immortal. But is he a demon ? Personally, > I consider it doubtful - the style of power seems too different. > Demons are about gray hopelessness, grim destruction, decadence and > corruption. While there isn't much to go on in B3, he seems to be > more interested in intelligent corruption than the bestial image > the demonic entropics present. Possibly he is a diabolic (i.e. devil) entropic. But interestingly enough, I don't think so. I think he is ... okay, this is really unlikely, I can't say for certain that this was on the mind of whoever wrote B3, but it fits together sorta ... he is the official TSR version of Arioch (Arik -- Arioch), Lord of Chaos, Prince of Swords, see Michael Moorcock's Elric novels for details. > How's the priesthood doing, now that their god is unavailable ? > Well, obviously, Commune isn't going to work all that well, but the > cleric in B3 does have spells, and must be getting them from somewhere. > This suggests that Arik created an Artifact to provide spells for his > clerics if he was unable to himself. On the other hand, the cleric in > question was level 3 only - it may be that his priesthood is limited > to level 1 spells - the spells that comes from a cleric's faith and > not from the deity's power. Or maybe the cleric is scaled for a Basic adventure. > What was the nature of his crimes ? > At a guess, he made a deal with Nightmare creatures like the Brain eaters > or malfera, to cleanse the world of Mystara of life, so that they could > colonize it - or possibly assisted them in such an attempt. Just a > thought, but what would a Nightmare Undead be like ? Ask Harrow, immortal patron of the diaboli. My guess as to Arik's crimes hinges on the identification of him as a TSRified Arioch (in much the same way that the Elder Elemental God from Monstrous Mythology is a TSRified version of Azathoth, from the Cthulu mythos). Essentially, he came out the loser in a major conflict between the Immortals of another world. Y'see, Arik was originally an Eternal of the sphere of Entropy, and the primary patron of a race similar to the elves of Mystara, but much, much nastier. Unfortunately, most of these "Malnobinaians" (skirting copyright infringement gracefully) were whiped out in a devastating attack by an exiled prince of the realm, who by chance was also Arik's primary mortal servant (high priest, essentially). Things generally went down hill from there -- a major conflict between the Immortals of that world, including Thanatos in another form, led to the destruction of all life on that world. Needless to say, the Immortals were not happy. Three guesses who they blamed? Arik spent enough time in the pen to lose his Eternal status, getting eventually bumped down to Celestial levels. Even Thanatos, who was fascinated with the destruction that ensued, is disgusted by Arik's inability to keep a handle on his servants -- to say nothing of the destruction of a race that Thanatos favored, somewhat reminiscent of the Hattians of the Known World ... However, Arik has not taken his defeat lying down. He has spearheaded a number of plots to get himself out of the prison plane ... one in the Hidden Valley of Karameikos, but a far more insidious one in Glantri. As you may recall, there is a secret society of fighters, originating in the Principality of Klantyre, whose goal is to destroy the Magocracy, and reinstituting "rule by the sword". Their name is the "Followers of the Claymore". A Claymore is a sword. The Followers include a number of clerics whose holy symbol is a sword. And during the parliament in which nobility in Glantri was reserved for magic-users, a rather belligerant fighter swore "By the Holy Blade". (see the Glantrian Gazzetteer for details) Arik is very fond of swords ... So what do you think? Chris Davies. - --0-262350613-822038668:#16113-- ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 22:43:30 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Re: At 02.04 19/01/96 -0600, you wrote: > > The issue at hand is to decide what exactly Arik is. > Obviously, he is an Entropic Immortal. But is he a demon ? Personally, > I consider it doubtful - the style of power seems too different. > Demons are about gray hopelessness, grim destruction, decadence and > corruption. While there isn't much to go on in B3, he seems to be > more interested in intelligent corruption than the bestial image > the demonic entropics present. I agree. > What was he as a mortal ? Given the large number of eyes his > Immortal form uses, it's easy to suggest that he was a beholder > or beholderkin. Interesting idea: a beholder immortal ! > How's the priesthood doing, now that their god is unavailable ? > Well, obviously, Commune isn't going to work all that well, but the > cleric in B3 does have spells, and must be getting them from somewhere. > This suggests that Arik created an Artifact to provide spells for his > clerics if he was unable to himself. On the other hand, the cleric in > question was level 3 only - it may be that his priesthood is limited > to level 1 spells - the spells that comes from a cleric's faith and > not from the deity's power. If Arik created a Spell Generation artifact he spent at least 250 PP, so, because an immortal creating an artifact may not spend enough PP to lose an experience level, he must be of Empyreal or higher level, whether WOTI describes Arik as Celestial of the Spere of Entropy. So the idea of an Artifact is not good. Where did you find that level 1 spells are granted by the cleric's faith and not from the deity's power ? In the Immortal boxed set ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:33:31 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Re: your mail As far as Arik's identity, in my campaign I have decided that he is a rmenant of a pre-blackmoorian culture of beholders (many eyed creatures). His people were slaughtered in an inquisition-like crusade led by the Blackmoorians, and he has hated humans and humanlike creatures ever since. He eventually became immortal, and adopted a form like a beholder, but with one hundred eyes- hence his name. His crimes were the destruction of one or more immortals, and a vicious campaign to destory all humanoid/human/demihuman immortals- pretty much all of them, really. ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 21:07:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Migrations/Clans of Elves, Halflings, etc. My apologies if this thread's already been done.. There've been lots of notes in the Gazetteers (and other Mystara products) about all the various migrations and clan-splittings that the elves have been doing these past 4000 or so years. Is there a complete-ish list of all the Elven clans and where they come from? Also, if the Eiryndl elvish language is signifigantly different from the Alfheim dialect, what about the Calarii, Yavdlom, and other distant clans? And we can't forget the hin, and dwarves, and lizardmen, and beastmen progeny.. So, should I dig out all my references and find the answers for myself, or does somebody else know already? :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 08:58:57 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Migrations/Clans of Elves, Halflings, etc. - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Friday, 19-Jan-96 09:07 PM From: Daniel Boese \ Internet: (dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca) To: Post to Mystara-L \ Internet: (mystara-l@io.com) Subject: [Mystara] Migrations/Clans of Elves, Halflings, etc. My apologies if this thread's already been done.. There've been lots of notes in the Gazetteers (and other Mystara products) about all the various migrations and clan-splittings that the elves have been doing these past 4000 or so years. Is there a complete-ish list of all the Elven clans and where they come from? Also, if the Eiryndl elvish language is signifigantly different from the Alfheim dialect, what about the Calarii, Yavdlom, and other distant clans? And we can't forget the hin, and dwarves, and lizardmen, and beastmen progeny.. So, should I dig out all my references and find the answers for myself, or does somebody else know already? :) ___________________________________________________________ Daniel, Go ahead and dig out your references if no one has done it already; just remember to post the results here! Shelby ------------------------------ From: senoj@richmond.infi.net (Calvin Jones) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 10:11:52 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] New to Mystara I am a new comer to this list and to Mystara. I have always played AD&D and never D&D so I never payed much attention to the Gazeteers or the other supplements for the "Known World". A friend of mine, who had $30 to kill and basically due to out of utter curiosity bought the Karameikos Boxed Set. He had it for a while, then I saw it and then I flipped throught it. I was just comparing the colorfulness of this product as opposed to the like the Forgotten Realms first boxed set. It looked really neat, but I never looked into it anymore. Lately i did look through it and even though I was tentative at first, I really liked what I saw. The more I read through it, the more it alive the place seemed. I was an instant fan of Mystara and Karamiekos. Right now let me say that I think the CD concept may have been a neat and probably an original idea, but it seriously lacked in usefulness. I could not stand it. I did like the artwork in the Karamiekos Boxed Set. Even though it was abundant and did take up space that could have been used to give more background info, it was good to compare the different artstyles of the Traldaran, Thyatian, and the New Karmiekean Style. This "frontier" kingdom full of all their humanoid problems, enough political turmoil to make DC look tame, and a vast amount of ruins and hidden caverns seemed perfect for an AD&D campaign that I wanted to start. I have also purchased the 4 almanacs, 1010-1013, just to get a good feel for the world of Mystara. Do any of you experienced Mystarans have any suggestions on sources I should try to obtain for background information. I am basing my campaign in 1012. Also, looking at the Immortals. I have seen a couple posts in the list regardings Immortals and their priests. Anyone have anything that they use for specialty priests for Halav, Petra, and Zirchev. Thanks. Calvin Jones senoj@richmond.infi.net ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 16:17:04 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara languages, was Glantrian language At 14.06 19/01/96 -0700, you wrote: >> Alphatian (Alphatian Empire, Minaean Coast, Glantri (Flaemish), Helskir, >> Ochalea) >> Thyatian (Thyatian Empire, Alatian Islands,Five Shires, Glantri, Heldann >> (Hattian),Ierendi (for trade), Helskir, Karameikos, Norwold, Rockhome) >> Atruaghin (Atruaghin clans, probably different from clan to clan) > > One of the clans -- the Horse Clan, I think -- doesn't have a >spoken language but uses hand signals. Yes, that's true. > >> Darokinian (Darokin, Five Shires, Ierendi, Sind (not much)) >> Milenian (many dialects in Davania) >> Thratian (Thyatian Hinterlands) >> Denagoth (Denagoth) >> Jennite (Jen, Esterhold, Minaean Coast) >> Ethengarian (Ethengar, Glantri) >> Traldaran (Karameikos, Glantri) >> Averoignian (Glantri) >> Urduk (Sind, Sind Desert, Barren Plain) >> Sindhi (Sind, Sind Desert, Barren Plain) >> Heldannic (Heldann, Northern Reaches, Norwold, Qeodhar, Wendar) >> Hulean (Hule) >> Makai (Ierendi) > > That's what I was thinking of ... Darokinian probably has some >loan words from this as well ... > Why ? >> Nithian (Thotia) > > Thothia. Also, the amount of time that's passed since Nithia's >disappearance has probably changed the language more than a bit ... > Then let's call it Thotian. >> Minaean (Minaean Coast) > > Almost certainly related to Jennite. And Jennite is probably a >distant relation (like German and Hindic in the real world) of Ethengar ... > >> Minrothad (Minrothad) >> Myoshiman (Myoshima) > > Um, why'd ya include this one if you didn't include any other >non-human languages? > Probably I was absent-minded :-) >> Nuar (Pearl Islands) >> Karimari (Ulimwengu) >> Yavdlom (Yavdlom) >> Ylari (Ylaruam) Emerondian (Emerond) After reading the complete Timeline (thanks Daniel), I can draw the following conclusion: In Mystara there are 4 alien languages: Alphatian/Flaemish, Averoignian, Kaelic (Klantrian Gaelic, by Chris Davies) and Emerondian. We can recognize 4 main languages in Mystara: Oltec/Azcan, Tanagoro, Neathar, Nithian. From Tanagoro come Nuar and Yavdlom (with Sheyallia Elvish influence). From Nithian originate Thotian, Ylari and Traldar, and from this comes Milenian. Neathar is the "father" of Makai, Urduk and Antalian. From the last one come Heldannic, Thratian and Thyatian. From the Oltec/Azcan group come Jennite, Sindhi (with Urduk influx) and Minaean (with strong Milenian influence). Ethengarian and Denagoth aren't linked to any other language. Darokinian should be a mix of Nithian, Traldar, Ylari and probably Sindhi, Elvish and Thyatian. Minrothad Patois is a mix of all the languages. Glantrian is (according to Chris) a technical language that takes words from Flaemish, Averoignian, Traldar, Thyatian, Kaelic, Alphatian, 2 Elvish dialects, Ethengharian and maybe Sindhi. That's all for now. Soon I will add something on the Savage Coast. If someone has info on Hule, please send them. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #44 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #45 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Monday, 22 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 045 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Sun, 21 Jan 96 01:07:43 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Migrations/Clans of Elves, Halflings, etc. At 21.07 19/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >My apologies if this thread's already been done.. > >There've been lots of notes in the Gazetteers (and other Mystara >products) about all the various migrations and clan-splittings that the >elves have been doing these past 4000 or so years. Is there a >complete-ish list of all the Elven clans and where they come from? Also, >if the Eiryndl elvish language is signifigantly different from the >Alfheim dialect, what about the Calarii, Yavdlom, and other distant clans? > The different dialects shouldn't be significantly different from each other. Probably this is due to the long lifespan and slow growth rate of the elvish race. The elven society is a rather static one. I remembere reading somewhere that two elves from two differents clan living in distant areas can understand each othere without problems. >And we can't forget the hin, and dwarves, and lizardmen, and beastmen >progeny.. > >So, should I dig out all my references and find the answers for myself, >or does somebody else know already? :) > Ok, go on and let us know your results. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 12:06:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] New to Mystara Welcome to the list, Calvin > Also, looking at the Immortals. I have seen a couple posts in the list > regardings Immortals and their priests. Anyone have anything that they use > for specialty priests for Halav, Petra, and Zirchev. Try HWR3(?) the Milenian reference. It has specialty priests for Halav and Petra. Petra's priests got 3 or four magic spells that could only be used in Milenian borders. They were guardians of the Milenain state. Halav's priests are more warrior-based. They go beserk upon sighting humanoids. Thats all I remember of them. Bumblebee:That was Swindle, a Combaticonm. They're Decepticons. Roland:This sure is getting complicated. We should've just taken the F in science. (Ain't weird quotes that make no sense cool?) ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 16:55:30 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Apology: FUDGE... Hi Chris and all the others! On Fr 19.01.1996 around 19:22:57 you wrote in message "[Mystara] Regarding FUDGE..." > Uh, Peter, this is a group to discuss TSR's world, Mystara, not > Steffan O'Sullivan's free-form game, FUDGE. Yep, I know. Sorry! I wanted to send this to Ann Dupuis but somehow I pressed the wrong "Reply-Button" and it was sent to the list. Seems I'm getting way to dumb to use my computer... :-/ Again: I'm really sorry that this went wrong. By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: "The Dark Elf." Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 14:46:47 +1100 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Weapons Does anyone have any sugestions for the stats of a Rapier.... it's mentioned in Glantri and Darokin but I would not think they would be the same as the swords listed in the rules cyclopedia... - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Martin | "Everything has it's own unique beauty...... | |The Dark Elf | when you look at it from the right perspective"| - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 11:43:21 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mailing List Troubles! On Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:32:48 -0800 (PS, Jennifer Mott wrote: > Here's the scoop: First, I'm subscribed to BOTH the list and the >digest. The idea was so that I could read and respond to messages as >they were sent out, but also get a the nicely formated digest for >personal archival reasons. Sorry for interrupting. I've no idea for helping you with your problem, but what is this digest you're writing about? Mystara stuff? How can I subscribe? Information really would be appreciated. Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 11:48:08 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects On Thu, 11 Jan 1996 13:31:15 -0500, M. Shaffer wrote: >Do you get Dragon magazine? If so, there is a dealer in the U.S. called >Zocchi Distributers. They usually have an ad in every issue for >Gamescience dice or Twerps RPG or similar stuff. They have tons of out of >print TSR goods. They probably have the items you are looking for. >I don't know what kind of problems you would have with sending them U.S. >currency, but it might be worth a try. Thanks for the hint. I will definitely try it, as I see no other chances of completing my collection. >P.S. I am not trying to advertise for them. I am just trying to help out >fellow gamers in desperate need. :-) And I really am desperate...;-) Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 11:54:24 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:44:35 +1100 (ES, The Dark Elf. wrote: >if he had of abandoned them.. it would have been noticed by no more >clerical ability... even if they come through the soul crystals.. Some seemed to have the impression that they are all now devoted followers of Atzanteotl. Crap. >well the shadow elves are the misunderstood race of Mystara... they are >seen as evil, while they are good at heart, but just following what their >immortal had told them... and the harsh environment they are in does not >make them seem any more kind hearted... I wouldn't say they're good at heart, as there is no race in my world, which is totally good. Not all elves are good, not all hin are good, etc. But the Shadow Elves are no weird freaks, they're living people, with much the same goals and hopes than "normal" elves or humans. And they desperately want to be like the other races, living above ground. >btw.. I have one as a NPC in glantri... looking to open up a principality >in one of the mountains... there are plenty of room there for the shadow >elves to use... And there they really wouldn't be noticed, as long as they are magic-users. In a state where principalities like Boldavia may exist, Shadow Elves are no problems.:) Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 12:03:00 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Fri, 12 Jan 96 00:55:52 +0100, wrote: >Gaz13 says that: "Azanteotl's followers are all humanoids. He has no shadow >elves followers left outside the Land of the Red Sun (HW)." It also says >that Azanteotl believe Rafiel is evil and entropic, because of his strange >pratices with stillborn babies and old elves. Did anyone figure out why he does that? >Maybe the invaders of Oenkmar could turn to Azanteotl, because Oenkmar was >built by the same elf tribe of Azanteotl and is someway a city "sacred" to him. And I have the impression that TSR follows this course, from reading the Joshuan's Almanac. The invaders of Oenkmar seem to be led by an evil general, while Princess Tanadaleyo is trying to make contact to the Alfheim elves. >all good things will come to them, for I, Rafiel, will guide you." And what >is better for a shadow elf then to realize the dream of living again in a >forest, among trees with butterflys flying around and.... But Canolbarth Forest is no longer a wonderful place to live, since the Shadow Elves destroyed the enchantments. >People thinks that shadow elves are evil mainly for 2 reasons: 1)The Drow of >FR (I don't know much of them, but my FR DM told me they are evil) Besides Drizzt that is. By the way, I don't like him. He is just too good to be true. But you're right, in FR they're all evil, followers of Lolth, the spider-queen. Driders are especially nasty. >2)The fact that both Gaz5 and Creature Catalog describe them as chaotic monsters. Chaotic doesn't necessarily mean evil. I love playing chaotic good characters. Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 12:26:39 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Greetings On Thu, 11 Jan 1996 19:15:50 +0100, Peter Froehlich wrote: > Great to see you back online! If you remember we had an interesting >Mystara-related discussion a while back regarding gazetteers. I still can >get some of those gazetteers for you if you still need them. Hello again! Naturally I remember you. I tried several times to contact you via Fido, but you were gone. And I still need some Gazetteers...;) > I guess your nightmare is quit true. As is mine. But the good side of >things is that we Mystara DMs are now on our own and can save a lot of >money. :-/ I guessed so. I looked up TSRs announcements for 96 and couldn't find any Mystara-related stuff. Let's not hang our heads and work something out. > Akorros is described in GAZ 11: The Republic of Darokin. It is the >"twin city" of Akesoli and has a population of about 23.000. To cite from >GAZ 11: "The most important political institution in Akorros is the >Thieves Guild." :-) Thanks for the information, I will build something around it. >> Glory for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! > Oops, can't agree here. :-) Are you a supporter of Glantri or Thyatis? Baah.:) Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 12:56:53 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] New to Mystara > > I am a new comer to this list and to Mystara. I have always played AD&D and > never D&D so I never payed much attention to the Gazeteers or the other > supplements for the "Known World". > I play AD&D too - that's not incompatible.. > A friend of mine, who had $30 to kill and basically due to out of utter > curiosity bought the Karameikos Boxed Set. He had it for a while, then I > saw it and then I flipped throught it. I was just comparing the > colorfulness of this product as opposed to the like the Forgotten Realms > first boxed set. It looked really neat, but I never looked into it anymore. > Lately i did look through it and even though I was tentative at first, I > really liked what I saw. The more I read through it, the more it alive the > place seemed. I was an instant fan of Mystara and Karamiekos. > It is well alive since the Known World (Mystara) is now about 20 years old! The many supplements published for it have made it a very detailed, diverse and alive place to play in. Note however that the AD&D version of Mystara is not as good as the D&D version was. If you really like the place, I suggest you get copies of older products. > Right now let me say that I think the CD concept may have been a neat and > probably an original idea, but it seriously lacked in usefulness. I could > not stand it. I did like the artwork in the Karamiekos Boxed Set. Even > though it was abundant and did take up space that could have been used to > give more background info, it was good to compare the different artstyles of > the Traldaran, Thyatian, and the New Karmiekean Style. > The CD concept maybe good, but I hardly can't use it except for background music (I'm French and not all of my players do speak English fluently.. I don't understand why T$R didn't think of it..) > This "frontier" kingdom full of all their humanoid problems, enough > political turmoil to make DC look tame, and a vast amount of ruins and > hidden caverns seemed perfect for an AD&D campaign that I wanted to start. > > I have also purchased the 4 almanacs, 1010-1013, just to get a good feel for > the world of Mystara. Do any of you experienced Mystarans have any > suggestions on sources I should try to obtain for background information. I > am basing my campaign in 1012. > Mmm, they have also released some modules in AD&D format, but they're not very good (except the Mark of Amber, but it is based in Glantri, and the Red Steel setting). I don't think there is anything else published for the post-WOtI Mystara (ie after 1010), except of course the Almanacs. Just keep reading this list and the related web sites: http://moray.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/%7Eknight/mystara/index.html http://www.miniworld.com/adnd/ > Also, looking at the Immortals. I have seen a couple posts in the list > regardings Immortals and their priests. Anyone have anything that they use > for specialty priests for Halav, Petra, and Zirchev. > Someone has already released some specialty priests on the list. I'm not sure but I think Halav has already been released. Maybe someone who archived it can email it to you. > Thanks. > > > Calvin Jones > > senoj@richmond.infi.net > > - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 13:05:23 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] nooooo!!!!!!!![re: Shadow Elves] On Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:35:38 AST, Nightshade wrote: > I will die before I see anything like this in Mystara. The whole >evil-race-but-everyone-you-meet-is-the-exception idea is bad, bad, >bad. What's next, the spiders in the City of Stars start talking? >Everyone gets 50% anti-magic? Aztlan comes back with breasts and >drops the whole snake deal? You want drow, fine, but SE's are not >drow - not now, not ever. Hey, hold a minute. I said that they aren't Drow, that they are completely different and that's good so. Drizzt is very popular with the folks out there, but I for my part do not like him, as he is too good to be true, our Drow-Superman, potential Spiderman. Try explaining a FR-fan that SE are not the same as Drow and not inherently evil. Can be a difficult task. Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 13:15:29 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects On Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:39:08 -0500 (ES, Mischa E Gelman wrote: >As if- if you ever played the moduels in the M series(M2?) you'll >realize how easy it would be for Ericall and Norworld to secede from >wimpy, magic-bound Alphatia miles away Sorry, never played the old modules. The only old module I own is Castle Amber, but I never played it. Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 13:19:35 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:19:18 -0700 (MS, Chris Davies wrote: > Also sets up a possible servant in Glantri (Hello, Synn ... how's >tricks), increases the power of a society he covertly supports (the >Heldannic Knights), and weakens Asterius (what's happening in Thyatis AC >1012 can't be good for him). Quite some nice ideas. Synn really is a possible servant of Thanatos, with all her goals and tricks, and there has to be some other Immortal behind the Knights than Vanya. I don't think that Vanya would support their more and more crazed ideas, e.g. inquisition in 1013 AC. Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 13:54:40 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline On Sun, 14 Jan 96 12:14:21 +0100, wrote: >I think Mystara world was too static. I mean: the historic timelines in the >various Gazzetters told us of great wars and epic struggles in the past, but >around AC1000 nothing of such interest happened. Well, that's not very nice >for a world where adventurers are supposed to become famous. I started my Mystara campaign after purchasing the first PWA. I loved it very much, and I found the campaign background to be colorful and very exciting, because of these events. >I run my campaign on a day by day basis, in such a campaign an accessory >like the PWA, which gives both statistics for various nations, and many >future events and rumors for your PC, is very useful for a DM to help him >plan his campaign. Don't you think so ? Same with me. I got some nice ideas from the Almanacs, and that's all that most of the events should be. Rumours, plot ideas, nothing more. There are few of the grand events, like riots in Thyatis e.g. For me it's one of the most useful accessories ever published, that is PWA 1-3. >What I don't undestand is why TSR changed the useful and number-full PWA >into the Joshuan Almanac, easier to read, but not so useful for DMing: no >more HW, no more weather forecast, no more detailed infos, no more new lands >(Great Waste & Davania in PWA#2, Esterhold in PWA#3). Hey, you can read my thoughts! You are a Psionic.;) I totally agree with you. Joshuan's Almanac is very entertaining to read, but no help for a DM. A small nice book for players, but not very useful for me personally. Compare the events of 1012 to 1013. Just grand events. Where are the rumours, the ideas I found so useful? What happened to the really interesting people out there. Only one entry for the New Alphatian Empire. What about the Isle of Dawn, Thothia, the Alatian Islands? I've been very disappointed. And this shall be the last Mystara product ever? What a shame. Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 14:03:15 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Various questions On Sun, 14 Jan 96 12:14:15 +0100, wrote: >Did anyone of you buy the AD&D Mystara boxes: Karameikos & Glantri ? >Are they only an AD&D conversion of D&D stuff updated at AC1010 and a CD or >can I find there something more interesting ? I bought the boxes, though they're quite expensive. They convert to AD&D, take place in 1012 AC, and describe the countries in very much detail and in grand style. The style is what I like most about them. In full color, with many pictures, many NPCs, detailed descriptions. Nice card-material also. Special Karameikos and Glantri kits and non-weapon-proficiencies, new Glantrian spells. And two entry level adventures included. The CD is not very useful, but there are some nice handouts for the players. If you have the Gazetteers, you don't need the boxes, but for the art alone they are worth their money, IMHO. I liked the comparison of a painting of the battle of Halav against the Beast-Men (Traladaran vs. Thyatian style) very much. Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 14:35:09 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! On Wed, 17 Jan 96 00:21:25 +0100, wrote: >I've seen their catalog on the web (http://users.aol.com/tsrinc/1996/) and >it seems TSR will publish a new setting named Savage Coast !! There will be >a campaign book, a monstrum compendium, a novel and an accessory on the >Orc's Head Peninsula. >The short review of this products also speaks of "Red Curse" and "legacies". >Isn't this the same stuff of Red Steel (aka a part of Mystara) ? :-) Sounds just like Red Steel. What do you think of this setting? I liked the Voyages of the Princess Ark, but Red Steel as a setting is not quite my thing. Something is missing, call it the sense of wonder. I'd like it better if they kept on publishing Known World material. >Did you see the web catalog or the paper one ? Because on the web they are >adding something every day. Do they? Then there's still hope left... Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 14:51:03 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Various questions On Wed, 17 Jan 1996 12:59:09 -0500 (ES, StarHawk wrote: >Depends. According to the AD&D Karameikos Box, the clerics in Karameikos >either follow a lawful philosophy type religion, or worship Halav, >Zirchev, and/or somebody will in Halav's girlfriends name cause I forget. Halavs girlfriend is called Petra. Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 15:17:20 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Regarding FUDGE... On Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:11:53 +0100, Peter Froehlich wrote: > The FUDGE rules arrived in Germany and I bought them today. After >skimming through the book I felt I had to "voice my opinion" so here it is: > > Nice! Exteremely nice! :-) > >I hope to see supplements for FUDGE over here in Germany soon. Keep up the >good work! What are these FUDGE rules? I'm not quite up to date... Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #45 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #46 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, 23 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 046 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nightshade" Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:30:43 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > >Gaz13 says that: "Azanteotl's followers are all humanoids. He has no shadow > >elves followers left outside the Land of the Red Sun (HW)." It also says > >that Azanteotl believe Rafiel is evil and entropic, because of his strange > >pratices with stillborn babies and old elves. > > Did anyone figure out why he does that? Disfigured children: Keep the feeble bloodlines of the Shadow Elves as strong as possible, given the added hardship of the side effects of the Soul Crystals' radiations. Old People: They serve as the eyes of Rafiel. Most elves of that age are very skilled sorcerors and know a lot about things (also, they have enough common sense not to get caught). [the Shadow Elf 'Promised Land'] Rafiel promised them a paradise where they would be safe. He didn't promise them the surface world. > Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Alpahtia is the perfect example of a chaotic government. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:32:28 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Weapons > Does anyone have any sugestions for the stats of a Rapier.... it's > mentioned in Glantri and Darokin but I would not think they would be the > same as the swords listed in the rules cyclopedia... Try Dragon issue number 174? (It has the artist's girlfriend killing a worm in the dungeon) It's in the Princess Ark section - that issue or number 177 (the DM chessboard). HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 16:36:15 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Weapons At 14.46 22/01/96 +1100, you wrote: >Does anyone have any sugestions for the stats of a Rapier.... it's=20 >mentioned in Glantri and Darokin but I would not think they would be the=20 >same as the swords listed in the rules cyclopedia...=20 > > You're right. I found weapon mastery rules for the rapier in Dragon #175 The rapier costs 10 gp and has an encumbrance of 60 cn. It is a single-handed medium weapon rarely thrown. Using it with a shield negates all Defense and Special effects. The rapier suffers a -2 to-hit penalty against plate armor. Mastery Ranges Damage Defense Special P=3DH Basic - 2d4-1 - - Skilled - 1d8+1 H:+2 AC/2 Deflect (1), Disarm (Save) Expert - 1d8+2 H:+2 AC/3 Deflect (2), Disarm (Save+2) -/10/20 1d8+1 Master - P:1d12 H:+3 AC/3 Deflect (3), Disarm (Save+4) -/10/20 S:1d10 G.Mast. - P:1d12+1 H:+3 AC/4 Deflect (=A3), Disarm= (Save+6) 10/20/30 S:1d10+1=20 =20 ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 16:36:22 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion At 12.03 22/01/96 CST, you wrote: >On Fri, 12 Jan 96 00:55:52 +0100, wrote: > >>Gaz13 says that: "Azanteotl's followers are all humanoids. He has no shadow >>elves followers left outside the Land of the Red Sun (HW)." It also says >>that Azanteotl believe Rafiel is evil and entropic, because of his strange >>pratices with stillborn babies and old elves. > >Did anyone figure out why he does that? > Doing this Rafiel tries not to weaken the Shadow Elf race, because the use of souls crystals (i.e. Radiance) brings genetic alterations on futur generations. Moreover deformed babies abandoned in far away tunnels are often found by humanoids, who bring them in their tribes. In this way Rafiel weakens the humanoids, who are followers of Azanteotl. The same strategy is used for Wanderers, who rarely die in the tunnels but more often end in the orcish city of ... Oenkmar ! :-) I can't tell you more here because from today one of my players is on this list too (Hi Igor, or you prefer to be called Balinor ?). Mmmh ...perhaps I already told you too much. >>all good things will come to them, for I, Rafiel, will guide you." And what >>is better for a shadow elf then to realize the dream of living again in a >>forest, among trees with butterflys flying around and.... > >But Canolbarth Forest is no longer a wonderful place to live, since the >Shadow Elves destroyed the enchantments. After many years underground living in a wonderful forest or in a blighted one doesn't make such a difference... It's still better than living in caves. >>2)The fact that both Gaz5 and Creature Catalog describe them as chaotic monsters. > >Chaotic doesn't necessarily mean evil. I love playing chaotic good >characters. I prefer chaotic neutral characters ! ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 19:07:08 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > On Fri, 12 Jan 96 00:55:52 +0100, wrote: > >Gaz13 says that: "Azanteotl's followers are all humanoids. He has no shadow > >elves followers left outside the Land of the Red Sun (HW)." It also says > >that Azanteotl believe Rafiel is evil and entropic, because of his strange > >pratices with stillborn babies and old elves. > Did anyone figure out why he does that? It's in the Gaz. Sick or mutated (by rad) children were left to be found by the orcs and others in the cavers, so that they would not make the race harm. Ie. produce more mutated children. Old elves were driven from the society because also they would be more likely to get radbased sicneses and also because they would use too much of the societys recourses without giving much in return. This habit were used in real world at least in old Africa. - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 01:36:33 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! At 14.35 22/01/96 CST, you wrote: >On Wed, 17 Jan 96 00:21:25 +0100, wrote: > >>I've seen their catalog on the web (http://users.aol.com/tsrinc/1996/) and >>it seems TSR will publish a new setting named Savage Coast !! There will be >>a campaign book, a monstrum compendium, a novel and an accessory on the >>Orc's Head Peninsula. >>The short review of this products also speaks of "Red Curse" and "legacies". >>Isn't this the same stuff of Red Steel (aka a part of Mystara) ? :-) > >Sounds just like Red Steel. What do you think of this setting? I liked the >Voyages of the Princess Ark, but Red Steel as a setting is not quite my thing. >Something is missing, call it the sense of wonder. I'd like it better if >they kept on publishing Known World material. > As you said: "Hey, you can read my thoughts! You are a Psionic.;)". BTW I'm not a psionic, but a CN Gnome Warrior in Cormyr. I think the Voyages of the Princess Ark were a great way to map still unknow areas of Mystara, instead TSR stopped publishing it. I own CoM and only a dozen of old Dragon Magazines about the Princess Ark, so I don't know the full history but I like it. Red Steel... mmmh.. not bad but I don't understand why they changed the legacies and the way the Red Curse works ? And now the new (!) Savage Coast campaign ! And the first accessory is about the Orc's Head Peninsula, when the most important nation in the area is Hule. Seems like no one wants to publish something on Hule (apart from X4, X5 and X10), the same thing as the Heldann Freeholds in the KW: many hints everywhere, nothing really about it. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: brizio@lunet.it Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 01:36:28 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Regarding FUDGE... At 15.17 22/01/96 CST, you wrote: >On Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:11:53 +0100, Peter Froehlich wrote: > >> The FUDGE rules arrived in Germany and I bought them today. After >>skimming through the book I felt I had to "voice my opinion" so here it is: >> >> Nice! Exteremely nice! :-) >> >>I hope to see supplements for FUDGE over here in Germany soon. Keep up the >>good work! > >What are these FUDGE rules? I'm not quite up to date... >Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! > FUDGE means Freeform Universal Do-It-Yourself Gaming Engine. Until today I didn't know of it, but this morning I found Dragon Magazine in my mailbox (the real one) where Rick Swan reviewed FUDGE (and also the wonderful Dragon Dice game). But remember: this is the Mystara mailing list. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 9:58:35 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline > > On Sun, 14 Jan 96 12:14:21 +0100, wrote: > > >I think Mystara world was too static. I mean: the historic timelines in the > >various Gazzetters told us of great wars and epic struggles in the past, but > >around AC1000 nothing of such interest happened. Well, that's not very nice > >for a world where adventurers are supposed to become famous. > > I started my Mystara campaign after purchasing the first PWA. I loved it > very much, and I found the campaign background to be colorful and very > exciting, because of these events. > > >I run my campaign on a day by day basis, in such a campaign an accessory > >like the PWA, which gives both statistics for various nations, and many > >future events and rumors for your PC, is very useful for a DM to help him > >plan his campaign. Don't you think so ? > > Same with me. I got some nice ideas from the Almanacs, and that's all that > most of the events should be. Rumours, plot ideas, nothing more. There are > few of the grand events, like riots in Thyatis e.g. For me it's one of the > most useful accessories ever published, that is PWA 1-3. > > >What I don't undestand is why TSR changed the useful and number-full PWA > >into the Joshuan Almanac, easier to read, but not so useful for DMing: no > >more HW, no more weather forecast, no more detailed infos, no more new lands > >(Great Waste & Davania in PWA#2, Esterhold in PWA#3). > > Hey, you can read my thoughts! You are a Psionic.;) > I totally agree with you. Joshuan's Almanac is very entertaining to read, > but no help for a DM. A small nice book for players, but not very useful > for me personally. Compare the events of 1012 to 1013. Just grand events. > Where are the rumours, the ideas I found so useful? What happened to the > really interesting people out there. Only one entry for the New Alphatian > Empire. What about the Isle of Dawn, Thothia, the Alatian Islands? I've > been very disappointed. And this shall be the last Mystara product ever? > What a shame. > Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! > > Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon > Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- > > e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de > So, why don't we start an almanach for 1013, to complete Joshuan's? Here are what we could discuss : In the Outer World : *Glantri : - -Synn/Jaggar/Malachie triangle - -Erewan/Kol and his humanoids *Sind - -Hule's politics here - -Chandra ul Nervi's underground - -Sitara and Anand's new church *Hule - -the Master's current plots and plans *the New Alphatian Empire - -building of the new coucil, its politic&powers - -Bellissaria - -Esterhold Blackrock/Faraway, political&military situation - -Norwold Ericall/Heldannic Knights, political&military situation - -Floating Ar, moving the floating islands detailed In the Hollow World : *Alphatia - -Eriadna's political decisions - -Alphatia/Heldannic Knights - -Haldemar/Zandor - -Alphatian Neatharum Dogrel - -new alliances? - -Flying Fish & Mastwalker's return *Nithia - -Pharao *the Karameikan Polar Expedition - -KPE/fleeing Heldannic Knights - -encounters That's all I can think of right away, but there are probably others worth speaking of. If you'd like to develop the events in other places, just add to the list. If you are interested in this project as much as I am, just participate ;) Oh, BTW, if someone can archive it so that we can put it in a web site later, that would be cool. Thanx. If nobody can, I will do it for the time being, but my quota is limited here at school.. - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 11:32:12 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:30:43 AST, Nightshade wrote: >Disfigured children: Keep the feeble bloodlines of the Shadow Elves > as strong as possible, given the added hardship > of the side effects of the Soul Crystals' > radiations. >Old People: They serve as the eyes of Rafiel. Most elves of that > age are very skilled sorcerors and know a lot about > things (also, they have enough common sense not to get > caught). Thanks for the information, now I'm somewhat wiser.;) >Rafiel promised them a paradise where they would be safe. He didn't >promise them the surface world. They are safe on the surface, who would visit them in their twisted forest? And perhaps they can create paradise by cooperating with the Alfheim elves in the future. If any cooperation is possible... >Alpahtia is the perfect example of a chaotic government. Chaotic doesn't necessarily mean bad, does it? Alphatia is one of the many facets which fascinate me about Mystara though information is rare about it. Dawn of the Emperors was not what I expected. Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 11:35:57 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Mon, 22 Jan 96 16:36:22 +0100, wrote: >often found by humanoids, who bring them in their tribes. In this way Rafiel >weakens the humanoids, who are followers of Azanteotl. The same strategy is >used for Wanderers, who rarely die in the tunnels but more often end in the >orcish city of ... Oenkmar ! :-) It's not clear to me why this should weaken the humanoids. Imagine being such a deformed SE child, growing vengeful because of being abandoned. Could be a nasty surprise with some humanoid allies. >After many years underground living in a wonderful forest or in a blighted >one doesn't make such a difference... It's still better than living in caves. I don't think so, and any wise SE would do so too. Adapting your life to the surface is hard enough, but in such a landscape? >I prefer chaotic neutral characters ! Not too bad either. Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 12:02:32 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! On Tue, 23 Jan 96 01:36:33 +0100, wrote: >As you said: "Hey, you can read my thoughts! You are a Psionic.;)". >BTW I'm not a psionic, but a CN Gnome Warrior in Cormyr. >I think the Voyages of the Princess Ark were a great way to map still unknow >areas of Mystara, instead TSR stopped publishing it. I own CoM and only a >dozen of old Dragon Magazines about the Princess Ark, so I don't know the >full history but I like it. Better off than me. I do not own the CoM-box and my Princess Ark collection starts with Dragon #165, so I have some parts missing too. But is was quite a good read, in a more interesting style than Red Steel. >Red Steel... mmmh.. not bad but I don't understand why they changed the >legacies and the way the Red Curse works ? >And now the new (!) Savage Coast campaign ! And the first accessory is about >the Orc's Head Peninsula, when the most important nation in the area is >Hule. Seems like no one wants to publish something on Hule (apart from X4, >X5 and X10), the same thing as the Heldann Freeholds in the KW: many hints >everywhere, nothing really about it. I will take a look at it, but as I said before, if it's in the same style than Red Steel, I won't like it too much. As TSR seems to have dropped Mystara, we should develop gaps like Hule, the Freeholds and perhaps Alphatia for ourselves. I will get an account at home soon, where I am more creative than here at university. Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 12:14:12 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline On Tue, 23 Jan 96 9:58:35 MET, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: >So, why don't we start an almanach for 1013, to complete Joshuan's? Great idea! >*the New Alphatian Empire >-building of the new coucil, its politic&powers >-Bellissaria >-Esterhold Blackrock/Faraway, political&military situation >-Norwold Ericall/Heldannic Knights, political&military situation >-Floating Ar, moving the floating islands detailed > >In the Hollow World : > >*Alphatia >-Eriadna's political decisions >-Alphatia/Heldannic Knights >-Haldemar/Zandor >-Alphatian Neatharum Dogrel >-new alliances? >-Flying Fish & Mastwalker's return This is what interests me most. When I get my Internet account at home I will start working on it. >If you are interested in this project as much as I am, just participate ;) >Oh, BTW, if someone can archive it so that we can put it in a web site later, >that would be cool. Thanx. If nobody can, I will do it for the time being, >but my quota is limited here at school.. I will definitely participate. Put my name on the list, if you have one.;) Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 12:22:13 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > > On Mon, 22 Jan 96 16:36:22 +0100, wrote: > > >often found by humanoids, who bring them in their tribes. In this way Rafiel > >weakens the humanoids, who are followers of Azanteotl. The same strategy is > >used for Wanderers, who rarely die in the tunnels but more often end in the > >orcish city of ... Oenkmar ! :-) > > It's not clear to me why this should weaken the humanoids. Imagine being > such a deformed SE child, growing vengeful because of being abandoned. > Could be a nasty surprise with some humanoid allies. > Well, the SE are abandoned upon birth, so they never know their true origins and can't become vengeful for that reason :) In fact, this habit does not really weaken the humanoids as such (in fact, it even makes them more powerful, since these SE babies have the natural tendancy of becoming shamans), but Atzanteotl. The reason is this : the SE, even if grown by evil humanoids, tend toward good alignements (or loyal, if you pal D&D), and so don't worship Atzanteotl. And yet more, as they often become powerful shamans or chiefs in their clan, they also discourage the humainoids from doing so. > >After many years underground living in a wonderful forest or in a blighted > >one doesn't make such a difference... It's still better than living in caves. > > I don't think so, and any wise SE would do so too. Adapting your life to > the surface is hard enough, but in such a landscape? > Afreed. But it was the dream of many SE to go back to the surface, so they did it (whether Rafiel and his clergy supported the cause or not) > >I prefer chaotic neutral characters ! > > Not too bad either. > > Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! > > Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon > Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- > > e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de > - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 12:32:17 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > > On Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:30:43 AST, Nightshade wrote: > > >Disfigured children: Keep the feeble bloodlines of the Shadow Elves > > as strong as possible, given the added hardship > > of the side effects of the Soul Crystals' > > radiations. > >Old People: They serve as the eyes of Rafiel. Most elves of that > > age are very skilled sorcerors and know a lot about > > things (also, they have enough common sense not to get > > caught). > > Thanks for the information, now I'm somewhat wiser.;) > And again for fighting Atzanteotl, it should be noted that the old SE (called Wanderers IIRC) generally end up in the humanoid city of Oenkmar, under the rule of Atzanteotl. There they can spy for Rafiel, and use their wisdom and power trying to convert the locals from Atzanteotl's worship to Rafiel's (or at least to a non-entropic Immortal). > >Rafiel promised them a paradise where they would be safe. He didn't > >promise them the surface world. > > They are safe on the surface, who would visit them in their twisted forest? > And perhaps they can create paradise by cooperating with the Alfheim elves > in the future. If any cooperation is possible... > I don't think either taht Rafiel thought to Alfheim when he wrote his verses. I think he found the underground world just fine for his poeple and their secret project (which must absolutly remain undiscovered by other governments, and worse yet, by other Immortals). > >Alpahtia is the perfect example of a chaotic government. > > Chaotic doesn't necessarily mean bad, does it? Alphatia is one of the many > facets which fascinate me about Mystara though information is rare about > it. Dawn of the Emperors was not what I expected. > Then, submit to the list a more-detailed Alphatia. Just start writing a gazetter about the Alphatian Empire. I'm sure many of us are interested in this and could also participate in. As you seem to play much there, you probably have many info on that land. Post it! :) > Glory and honour for the Alphatian Empire and Empress Eriadna! > > Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon > Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- > > e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de > - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 14:04:17 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Tue, 23 Jan 96 12:32:17 MET, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: >And again for fighting Atzanteotl, it should be noted that the old SE (called >Wanderers IIRC) generally end up in the humanoid city of Oenkmar, under the >rule of Atzanteotl. There they can spy for Rafiel, and use their wisdom and >power trying to convert the locals from Atzanteotl's worship to Rafiel's (or >at least to a non-entropic Immortal). But what about the disfigured children? He didn't intend them to be spies too, did he? >I don't think either taht Rafiel thought to Alfheim when he wrote his verses. >I think he found the underground world just fine for his poeple and their secret >project (which must absolutly remain undiscovered by other governments, and >worse yet, by other Immortals). So why doesn't he work on getting his folk back underground? He could influence some of the more important SEs like Princess Tanadaleyo to migrate back. Why doesn't he do anything for his suffering folk? >Then, submit to the list a more-detailed Alphatia. Just start writing a gazetter >about the Alphatian Empire. I'm sure many of us are interested in this and could >also participate in. As you seem to play much there, you probably have many >info on that land. Post it! :) I'm working on it.:) Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #46 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #47 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, 23 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 047 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 14:08:30 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Tue, 23 Jan 96 12:22:13 MET, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: >Well, the SE are abandoned upon birth, so they never know their true origins >and can't become vengeful for that reason :) Don't you think they'd notice that they are completely different than the other humanoids? Don't you think they would start inquiring and someday they would get to know their true heritage? >In fact, this habit does not really weaken the humanoids as such (in fact, it >even makes them more powerful, since these SE babies have the natural tendancy >of becoming shamans), but Atzanteotl. The reason is this : the SE, even if grown >by evil humanoids, tend toward good alignements (or loyal, if you pal D&D), and >so don't worship Atzanteotl. And yet more, as they often become powerful >shamans or chiefs in their clan, they also discourage the humainoids from doing >so. One who grows up in an environment where Atzanteotl is chief Immortal would rather tend to worship him too, IMHO. So they could become powerful shamans of Atzanteotl. No one is inherently good or evil, it comes from your personal environment. >Afreed. But it was the dream of many SE to go back to the surface, so they did >it (whether Rafiel and his clergy supported the cause or not) A dream turned nightmare... Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:00:32 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: > > > > On Mon, 22 Jan 96 16:36:22 +0100, wrote: > > >often found by humanoids, who bring them in their tribes. In this way Rafiel > > >weakens the humanoids, who are followers of Azanteotl. The same strategy is > > >used for Wanderers, who rarely die in the tunnels but more often end in the > > >orcish city of ... Oenkmar ! :-) Actually this made me view the Humanoids from a different perspective. Seeming crude and primitive from our eyes, but taking care of small children they find in the caves. Perhaps they have been done great injustice by TSR when they were labeled with an evil alignment. I mean, true they raid human villages, but what choice do they have? Their holy lands (the broken lands) give them no other opportunities to obtain wealth. They are cruel, but they have my sympathy, especially the kobolds..being the lowest on the order of pecking... BTW, did u notice that Kol is a SE? > Well, the SE are abandoned upon birth, so they never know their true origins > and can't become vengeful for that reason :) > In fact, this habit does not really weaken the humanoids as such (in fact, it > even makes them more powerful, since these SE babies have the natural tendancy > of becoming shamans), but Atzanteotl. The reason is this : the SE, even if grown > by evil humanoids, tend toward good alignements (or loyal, if you pal D&D), and > so don't worship Atzanteotl. And yet more, as they often become powerful > shamans or chiefs in their clan, they also discourage the humainoids from doing > so. Humanoids not furthering the cause of entrophy?..sound good. Haavard R. Faanes hoc@nvg.unit.no ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:58:57 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > >Rafiel promised them a paradise where they would be safe. He didn't > >promise them the surface world. > > They are safe on the surface, who would visit them in their twisted forest? > And perhaps they can create paradise by cooperating with the Alfheim elves > in the future. If any cooperation is possible... Imagine how safe they would have been if they stayed isolated underground, with a fully functioning Circle of Spheres magi-tek fusion reactor to draw their magical energy from? Subterrainean utopia. > >Alpahtia is the perfect example of a chaotic government. > > Chaotic doesn't necessarily mean bad, does it? Alphatia is one of the many > facets which fascinate me about Mystara though information is rare about > it. Dawn of the Emperors was not what I expected. Chaotic doesn't mean bad, just... unstructured. Imagine trying to get quorum for a council of 1000 arch-magi? HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:15:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! > >As you said: "Hey, you can read my thoughts! You are a Psionic.;)". > >BTW I'm not a psionic, but a CN Gnome Warrior in Cormyr. > >I think the Voyages of the Princess Ark were a great way to map still unknow > >areas of Mystara, instead TSR stopped publishing it. I own CoM and only a > >dozen of old Dragon Magazines about the Princess Ark, so I don't know the > >full history but I like it. > > Better off than me. I do not own the CoM-box and my Princess Ark collection > starts with Dragon #165, so I have some parts missing too. But is was quite > a good read, in a more interesting style than Red Steel. Hm. I've got most of the Princess Ark issues of Dragon; would it be a copyright violation to type in the journals (especially the pre-CoM ones) and post them here, or email them on request? - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 17:04:48 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > > On Tue, 23 Jan 96 12:22:13 MET, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: > > >Well, the SE are abandoned upon birth, so they never know their true origins > >and can't become vengeful for that reason :) > > Don't you think they'd notice that they are completely different than the > other humanoids? Don't you think they would start inquiring and someday > they would get to know their true heritage? > In Gaz13 it is said that the disfigured children don't look very different from ugly humanoids. Those that don't look like humanoids just are not grown by them (they kill 'em outright). > >In fact, this habit does not really weaken the humanoids as such (in fact, it > >even makes them more powerful, since these SE babies have the natural tendancy > >of becoming shamans), but Atzanteotl. The reason is this : the SE, even if grown > >by evil humanoids, tend toward good alignements (or loyal, if you pal D&D), and > >so don't worship Atzanteotl. And yet more, as they often become powerful > >shamans or chiefs in their clan, they also discourage the humainoids from doing > >so. > > One who grows up in an environment where Atzanteotl is chief Immortal would > rather tend to worship him too, IMHO. So they could become powerful shamans > of Atzanteotl. No one is inherently good or evil, it comes from your > personal environment. > That's your point of view, not Rafiel's (but maybe he's rong and you're right.. even genetic engeenering cannot tell, so ..) > >Afreed. But it was the dream of many SE to go back to the surface, so they did > >it (whether Rafiel and his clergy supported the cause or not) > > A dream turned nightmare... > > Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon > Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- > > e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de > - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 17:07:35 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > > On Tue, 23 Jan 96 12:32:17 MET, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: > > >And again for fighting Atzanteotl, it should be noted that the old SE (called > >Wanderers IIRC) generally end up in the humanoid city of Oenkmar, under the > >rule of Atzanteotl. There they can spy for Rafiel, and use their wisdom and > >power trying to convert the locals from Atzanteotl's worship to Rafiel's (or > >at least to a non-entropic Immortal). > > But what about the disfigured children? He didn't intend them to be spies > too, did he? > See my other post for my opinion on that. > >I don't think either taht Rafiel thought to Alfheim when he wrote his verses. > >I think he found the underground world just fine for his poeple and their secret > >project (which must absolutly remain undiscovered by other governments, and > >worse yet, by other Immortals). > > So why doesn't he work on getting his folk back underground? He could > influence some of the more important SEs like Princess Tanadaleyo to > migrate back. Why doesn't he do anything for his suffering folk? > That's just not that simple! Immortals are not allmighty, and most of the SE who actively participated in Alfheim's invasion are probably not his most ardent followers.. > >Then, submit to the list a more-detailed Alphatia. Just start writing a gazetter > >about the Alphatian Empire. I'm sure many of us are interested in this and could > >also participate in. As you seem to play much there, you probably have many > >info on that land. Post it! :) > > I'm working on it.:) > good :) > Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon > Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- > > e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de > - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 11:19:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline (Regarding Copyright) Herve MUSSEAU pontificated: > > So, why don't we start an almanach for 1013, to complete Joshuan's? > Here are what we could discuss : [SNIPED] Late last year, this idea and few others have been discussed. However, there are a problem as it might infringe on the copyright of TSR. I believe Ms. Dupres is still tring to contact TSR regarding what we can or can not do. In anycase, it might be wise for anyone who plan to place any of those stuffs on his or her web site to check with TSR first. I don't quite remember what was the exact result of the discussion, but I think it was something like, A. We could do it illegally, but we will lose many contributers (most notably, Ann Dupres). B. We could make it freeware (or something like that), but that means TSR can just take our work and publish it without the need of giving us any credits, and many people don't like that too much, or C. Something else... (sigh, I probably start up the heated debate again, but I felt people need to know what they get into. I apologize beforehand if this thread develops into a bunch of junk mails, hopefully, that will not be the case.) - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 18:14:44 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline (Regarding Copyright) > > Herve MUSSEAU pontificated: > > > > So, why don't we start an almanach for 1013, to complete Joshuan's? > > Here are what we could discuss : > [SNIPED] > > Late last year, this idea and few others have been discussed. However, > there are a problem as it might infringe on the copyright of TSR. I > believe Ms. Dupres is still tring to contact TSR regarding what we can > or can not do. In anycase, it might be wise for anyone who plan to > place any of those stuffs on his or her web site to check with TSR > first. I don't quite remember what was the exact result of the > discussion, but I think it was something like, A. We could do it > illegally, but we will lose many contributers (most notably, Ann Dupres). > B. We could make it freeware (or something like that), but that means > TSR can just take our work and publish it without the need of giving > us any credits, and many people don't like that too much, or C. Something > else... > > (sigh, I probably start up the heated debate again, but I felt people > need to know what they get into. I apologize beforehand if this thread > develops into a bunch of junk mails, hopefully, that will not be the > case.) > > > -- > Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering > Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu > (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu > (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. > Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely > irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. > Yup, but don't tou think that what has already been released on the list isn't a copyright violation?? (eg the timeline). BTW, the author of the almanachs is Ann Dupuis, not Dupre. - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 11:00:26 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! > > Hm. I've got most of the Princess Ark issues of Dragon; would it be a > copyright violation to type in the journals (especially the pre-CoM ones) > and post them here, or email them on request? > Yes, it would DEFINITELY be a violation. (I never dreamed I'd see the day I'd be defending T$R's copyrights ...) Unless you want to see them shut this thing down so fast it will make your head spin, don't do it. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: kaelin@natural.com (Robert Kaelin) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:14:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion >BTW, did u notice that Kol is a SE? I was wondering if anyone would mention this fact, (I wasn't sure that I remembered it correctly and kept forgetting to check.) Kol is a SE who was abandonded as a disfigured child and found by the kobolds. This thread made me ask some interesting questions in my own campaign. What would happen if the Shadow Elves discovered that one of their own is a Prince in Glantri? Would they try to communicate with him, perhaps to get Glantri's magics to aid the forest rejuvenation? Would they ignore Kol, or even try somehow to furthur mask Kol's true origions so no one might dicover the link between the shadow elves and the humanoids, something the that might make the humans, elves and dwarves more unlikely to trust them. What would Kol do if he discovered his true race? Kol needs a magic using heir to inherit his principality after his death, something his kobold wives have been unable to provide. Would he try to contact the Shadow Elves? Would he try to have a shadow elf child, who would of course be a lot more likely to be capable of using spells? Would he resent his abandonment and try to avenge himself, or would he continue to live as a kobold. What would Kol's followers think? (It probably wouldn't be good.) What would Synn think? (If there's a chance she can get Glantri to fight the Shadow Elves she might be all for it.) What would the other princes think? (Although I guess if they can adjust to a kobold prince, a shadow elf one isn't that far behind.) There, I'm glad I got those questions out of me. I'm thinking of having Kol come out of the Shadow Elf closet and I'd love to hear anyone's opinions/suggestions on the above, and/or anything anyone's already done. My opinion is Kol would try to contact the Shadow Elves somehow, but I've never used Shadow Elves in my campaign before WotI (which I just played about 6 months ago so I don't have the entire SE mindset down pat yet.) Thanks. - -Bob p.s. This is my first message on this list, so if this has been addressed before then never mind. :-) ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:48:38 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > >BTW, did u notice that Kol is a SE? > > I was wondering if anyone would mention this fact, (I wasn't sure that I > remembered it correctly and kept forgetting to check.) I'm putting my fingers in my ears and humming. I'm trying to forget about that. > What would Kol's followers think? Kobold's don't, as a rule. What > would Synn think? It's a way to get back at Hadelmarr. >What would the other princes think? Better question, would they care? A lich, a vampire, a couple of were- wolves, (at least) one madman, one's a dragon (two if you count the dracologist) - the more freaks the merrier. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Jason Zavoda Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:44:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! Actually,Chris, this is a highly debatable question. This is not a newsgroup and there is a strong point to the fair use of these items that will not be settled outside of a courtroom. Also private email, as opposed to a newsgroup or even this mailing list is even a stronger case for fair use of the old Dragon articles being reproduced and sent out to share information. The D&D/AD&D game system is constructed so that supplements, rules and game scenarios will be shared by more than one person so the transmission and even reproduction of the information is already granted on a non profit level. TSR has also not claimed copyright infringement for the use of their game rules and products during gaming convention where fees have been charged for participation. The AD&D/D&D game has been publicaly and I am sure privately been played through snail mail where information from supplements and rulebooks published by TSR have been reproduced in written form. The transmission of such information electronically via email is simply an extension of what was previously more economical over snail mail(Play by mail could easily be play by telegram). If someone is reading your email without a warrant (at least in the USA) it is a felony. Jason Zavoda On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Chris Davies wrote: > > > > Hm. I've got most of the Princess Ark issues of Dragon; would it be a > > copyright violation to type in the journals (especially the pre-CoM ones) > > and post them here, or email them on request? > > > Yes, it would DEFINITELY be a violation. (I never dreamed I'd see the > day I'd be defending T$R's copyrights ...) > Unless you want to see them shut this thing down so fast it will make > your head spin, don't do it. > > Chris Davies. > > ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:43:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Product List 4a/5 On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, Daniel Boese wrote: > B2: Keep on the Borderlands > New magical items: None No. The creatures in the last cave had some special amulets and stuff. > B4: Lost City > New creatures: Banshee, Cynidiceans, Werefox Lycanthrope, > Polymar Zargon-unique > B7: Rahasia > TSR No.: 9115 > Status: Out of print > Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara > Characters: [???] of levels 1-3 Info??????????????? > B9: Castle Caldwell & Beyond > TSR No.: 9143 > Status: Out of print > Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara > Characters: [???] of levels 1-3 Info????????? > B10: Night's Dark Terror > Setting: D&D Basic/Expert, Mystara Did the B4 description include the Expert part? > New magical items: None Well-the tapesries could qualify > B11: King's Festival > TSR No.: 9260 > Status: Out of print > Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara > Characters: [???] of levels 1-3 > > B12: Queen's Harvest > TSR No.: 9261 > Status: Out of print > Setting: D&D Basic, Mystara Info??????????? twice > X3: Curse of Xanathon > Setting: D&D Expert, Mystara Shouldn't it list Rockhome or the country not just Mystara for many of these? > X7: War Rafts of Kron > New creatures: Dolphin, Dragon Turtle, Eel (Electric and Say what? Dragon Turtle? Xpert adventure? > X8: Drums on Fire Mountain > New magical items: None Amulet of Protection,Black Cloak of Kalnakaa,Deceiving(?) Dagger > X10: Red Arrow, Black Shield > What you get: A 48 page module which contains information on > the countries and armies of the Known World. In addition, > there are 200 counters (representing the armies of the > world) and a full-colour map of the Known World (from the > Expert Set) for use with the counters. Sounds very useful-is it still available anywhere? > of allies to help stave off the invasion. The end result > is Mystara's first world war. Or just the Known World? > X11: Saga of the Shadow Lord > TSR No.: 9165 > Status: Out of print > Setting: D&D Expert, Mystara > Characters: [???] of levels 5-9 > Author: Stephen Bourne > Notes: This module details regions directly north of what is > typically included in the Known World (Wendar, Denagoth, > Heldann Freeholds). It features the Blackstick, a fairly > powerful artifact that is almost out of charges. Info????????????????? > Bob Friend: " Prospects arms don't seem to be as strong as they used to be. Maybe they baby their arms. There are other things to do now. All we did was play baseball. None of that computer game stuff." ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:51:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Product List 5/5 > DA1: Adventures in Blackmoor > New spells: None Details CM level spells > New magical items: None Several unique weapons of good strength(the great maces) are here > New creatures: None Sure? > DA4: Duchy of Ten > New creatures: Brother of the Greenwood (human), Dolphin, > Dragon Turtle, Gakarak, Gatorman, Handmaidens of Death > (human), Hide Hunter (human), Lava Lizard, Roper, Sister > of Fire (human), Sicauda Harian Raider (human), Soiluk (Sun > Brother), Soul Eater Neat-sounding monsters. Dragon Turtle???? > Dawn of the Emperors > Status: Just out of print Update this. > Setting: D&D, Thyatian Empire Norworld. Alphatian Empire. More info on DDAs please > DDA1: Arena of Thyatis > TSR No.: 9274 > Status: Just out of print > Setting: D&D Thyatian Empire, Mystara > Characters: [???] of levels 2-3 > Price: $5.95 > > DDA2: Legions of Thyatis > TSR No.: 9296 > Status: Out of print > Setting: D&D Thyatian Empire, Mystara > Characters: [???] of levels [???] > Price: $5.95 > > DDA3: Eye of Traldar > TSR No.: 9271 > Status: Out of print > Setting: D&D Thyatian Empire, Mystara > Characters: [???] of levels 2-3 > Year: 1991 > Price: $6.95 > > DDA4: Dymrak Dead > TSR No.: 9272 > Status: Out of print > Setting: D&D Thyatian Empire, Mystara > Characters: [???] of levels 1-3 > Year: 1991 > Price: $6.95 > Hollow World Campaign > Status: Just out of print Update > Setting: D&D Hollow World, Mystara Also includes new monsters, 1 spell and new races > HWR1: Sons of Azca > TSR No.: 9332 > Status: Just out of print > Setting: D&D Hollow World, Mystara > Author: John Nephew > Year: 1991 > Price: $10.95 > Summary: This reference covers the Azcan Empire (a society > similar to the Aztecs anmd Mayans of South America). > Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) Info???? > HWR2: Kingdom of Nithia > TSR No.: 9339 > Status: Just out of print > Setting: D&D, Hollow World (Mystara) > Author: Blake Mobley with Newton Ewell > Year: 1991 > Price: $10.95 > Summary: This reference covers the Kingdom of Nithia (an > Egyptian style setting). > Contributed by: Frank Schober (fschober@uceng.uc.edu) new profs, new monsters, new weaPONS and armor, new spells, new sub-classes personalities,adventure idea, new magic systems > HWR3: The Milenian Empire new profs, new weapons and armor, new spells, new sub-classes personalities,adventure ideas More info please on these: > HWA1: Nightwail > TSR No.: 9378 > Status: Just out of print > Setting: D&D Hollow World, Mystara > Characters: [???] of levels 6-8 > > HWA2: Nightrage > TSR No.: 9310 > Status: Just out of print > Setting: D&D Known World, Mystara > Characters: [???] of levels 7-9 > Price: $8.95 > > HWA3: Nightstorm > TSR No.: 9311 > Status: Just out of print > Setting: D&D Hollow World, Mystara > Characters: [???] of levels 8-10 > Price: $9.95 > > HWQ1: Milenian Sceptre > TSR No.: 9378 > Status: Just out of print > Setting: D&D Hollow World, Mystara > Characters: [???] of levels 6-8 > Year: 1992 > Price: 9378 > What you get: 64 page booklet, map > The Knight of Newts > TSR No.: 9434 > Status: Just out of print > Setting: New D&D, Thunder Rift > Characters: [???] of levels 1-3 > Author: Dale Henson > Year: 1993 > Price: $6.95 > What you get: 16 page booklet, 20 die-cut figures, mapsheet > Notes: This module can be played with or without a DM. [Go > figure - Ed.] It sucks. Way too powerful. WATER ELEMENTALS. > Bob Friend: " Prospects arms don't seem to be as strong as they used to be. Maybe they baby their arms. There are other things to do now. All we did was play baseball. None of that computer game stuff." ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #47 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #48 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 24 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 048 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:59:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Product List 3/5 > AC1: Shady Dragon Inn > Summary: This accessory is much like the old "Rogues Gallery". > It lists, in separate sections, NPCs of each of the major > character classes. It also has a special section with stats > for the characters featured in Module XL1 (Strongheart and > the other characters that appear in the animated Marvel > Productions TV show and that are portrayed as the rulers > of the Kingdom of Ierendi in Module X10). The final section > includes ready-to-use NPC parties consisting of the NPCs > in the earlier sections of the booklet. Each character has > about a paragraph of background but this can easily be used > as a starting point and built upon. Cool. > AC4: Book of Marvelous Magic > Summary: This book contains all of the miscellaneous magic > items from the Basic, Expert and Companion sets, plus 500 > new items. Is it good? > AC9: Creature Catalogue > TSR No.: 9173 > Status: Out of print > Compiled by: Graeme Morris et. al. > Year: 1986 > Price: $12.00 > Summary: This accessory describes monsters which appeared in > previous D&D modules, as well as a few new ones. The > monsters are listed according to type: Animals, > Conjurations, Humaniods, Lowlife, Monsters and Undead. > There are also indexes by habitat, type and alphabetical. has been remade into something else-DNDR2 or something > AC10: Bestiary of Dragons and Giants > Summary: This accessory is comprised of a booklet containing > 14 small adventures featuring dragons and giants (7 > adventures for each) ranging from Basic to Master level > play. > All of the adventures are playable in one session. Timewise, not level-wise. Watamouse was cool. The whole castle of Bodor Sordtone was magnifico. Also in book- brief descriptions of gnt,dragon culture(2 pg each?) I would ove more info on each GAZ: > the Soderfjord Jarldoms. Included is a small rune-magic Wow. Is it useful? > Summary: Halflings (Hin) are able to advance beyond the level > limitations if they enter the new class of "Master" (a > halfling druid, in many respects). Some new spells > included. Finally we get spellcating halflings. Cue broad smile from poster- :) > sold at many major port cities. It is possible to become > a "Merchant Prince" (sea-going merchants with their own > brand of spells, which are described herein). Ig. > characters. Also included is the Orc-Wars board game which > appeared previously in Dragon Magazine. A %$^% board game in a GAZ? Geez. > Summary: It is now possible for characters which live in > Ethengar to become "Shamans", a new character class, > complete with its own list of spells and spellcasting > ability. Yay! > GAZ13: Shadow Elves > Status: Just out of print How often do I need to say-update THIS > PC4: Night Howlers > Authors: Ann Dupuis Where have I heard this name before??? :> Bob Friend: " Prospects arms don't seem to be as strong as they used to be. Maybe they baby their arms. There are other things to do now. All we did was play baseball. None of that computer game stuff." ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:08:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Moocows are COOL > CM1: Test of the Warlords I think the crones deserve mention. Cthuludrew willing to do research on more immortals?? > CM2: Death's Ride > Potion of Superhealing Not new. Oard Tech. > New creatures: Garl, Hephaeston, Oaro Oard. Also wasn't there one more? > CM8: Endless Stair > New magical items: Crystal of Death Scrying, Dart of Death, Gem > of Magic Missile Protection, Diadem of Disenchantment Now weren't there more listed? > Notes: This module takes place in the Principalities of > Glantri. Where is this mentioned? > M1: Into the Maelstrom > New creatures: Roaring Demon (later appears in the Immortal > Rules) Very much revised in those rules. > M2: Vengeance of Alphaks > Summary: The immortal Alphaks, using mortalpawns, is > attempting to bring war to Norwold once again. His plans > toignite current frictions into a full-scale war include > meddling inpolitics and diplomacy, as well as treachery and treason. Note:Thismodule could upset campaign balancegreatly as Norworld may achieve independence. Versus Andrea of Alphatia,Germany's wishes :> > Notes: The events in thismodule follow those of module M1. Not neccesarily. M3 Notes: >New magical items: None > New creatures: None new creatures-many uniques and Carnifex new mitems-Wand of Kolorom,Gauntlets of Might,many many more Note:includes path to immortality > Bob Friend: " Prospects arms don't seem to be as strong as they used to be. Maybe they baby their arms. There are other things to do now. All we did was play baseball. None of that computer game stuff." ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 23:24:41 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Product List 4a/5 At 15.43 23/01/96 -0500, you wrote: > >> X10: Red Arrow, Black Shield >> What you get: A 48 page module which contains information on >> the countries and armies of the Known World. In addition, >> there are 200 counters (representing the armies of the >> world) and a full-colour map of the Known World (from the >> Expert Set) for use with the counters. >Sounds very useful-is it still available anywhere? I bought it from Zocchi just 4 months ago. Try there, the address is in every Dragon magazine. > >> of allies to help stave off the invasion. The end result >> is Mystara's first world war. >Or just the Known World? > Just the KW: when X10 was published Mystara was only the KW. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 23:26:26 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! At 11.00 23/01/96 -0700, you wrote: >> >> Hm. I've got most of the Princess Ark issues of Dragon; would it be a >> copyright violation to type in the journals (especially the pre-CoM ones) >> and post them here, or email them on request? >> > Yes, it would DEFINITELY be a violation. (I never dreamed I'd see the >day I'd be defending T$R's copyrights ...) > Unless you want to see them shut this thing down so fast it will make >your head spin, don't do it. > I don't think emailing it privately on request is a copyright violation. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:31:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Book of Marvelous Magic On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > AC4: Book of Marvelous Magic > > Summary: This book contains all of the miscellaneous magic > > items from the Basic, Expert and Companion sets, plus 500 > > new items. > Is it good? For those who care, all of the magic items in this book are now in the Encyclopedia Magica books. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 23:33:43 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion At 15.00 23/01/96 +0100, you wrote: >BTW, did u notice that Kol is a SE? I remember reading something like that, but I don't remembere where. Could you please tell me where I can found it ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:42:53 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! > >> Hm. I've got most of the Princess Ark issues of Dragon; would it be a > >> copyright violation to type in the journals (especially the pre-CoM ones) > >> and post them here, or email them on request? > >> > > Yes, it would DEFINITELY be a violation. (I never dreamed I'd see the > >day I'd be defending T$R's copyrights ...) > > Unless you want to see them shut this thing down so fast it will make > >your head spin, don't do it. > > > I don't think emailing it privately on request is a copyright violation. Actually it probably is, but the thing is that when you don't tell about 50 people and do it real quite-like, no one knows and nothing happens. But posting it to a list such as this (with industry and others concerned about legal matters) it would be a very not-nice thing to do. And repercussions would be forth coming. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 00:37:09 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline At 09.58 23/01/96 MET, you wrote: >So, why don't we start an almanach for 1013, to complete Joshuan's? >Here are what we could discuss : > >In the Outer World : > >*Glantri : >-Synn/Jaggar/Malachie triangle >-Erewan/Kol and his humanoids > >*Sind >-Hule's politics here >-Chandra ul Nervi's underground >-Sitara and Anand's new church > >*Hule >-the Master's current plots and plans > >*the New Alphatian Empire >-building of the new coucil, its politic&powers >-Bellissaria >-Esterhold Blackrock/Faraway, political&military situation >-Norwold Ericall/Heldannic Knights, political&military situation >-Floating Ar, moving the floating islands detailed > >In the Hollow World : > >*Alphatia >-Eriadna's political decisions >-Alphatia/Heldannic Knights >-Haldemar/Zandor >-Alphatian Neatharum Dogrel >-new alliances? >-Flying Fish & Mastwalker's return > >*Nithia >-Pharao > >*the Karameikan Polar Expedition >-KPE/fleeing Heldannic Knights >-encounters > >That's all I can think of right away, but there are probably others worth >speaking of. If you'd like to develop the events in other places, just add to >the list. >If you are interested in this project as much as I am, just participate ;) >Oh, BTW, if someone can archive it so that we can put it in a web site later, >that would be cool. Thanx. If nobody can, I will do it for the time being, >but my quota is limited here at school.. > First I'll read the timeline in the 3 PWAs, then I'll to post you something. I'm particularly interested in Shadow Elves (but probably I'm not objective), Sind, Hule, Esterhold and the Karameikan Polar Expedition. Maybe soon I'll have my Home Page at the university, where I can put all this stuff... if you solve the copyright problem. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 17:30:00 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! > > > > Yes, it would DEFINITELY be a violation. (I never dreamed I'd see the > > >day I'd be defending T$R's copyrights ...) > > > Unless you want to see them shut this thing down so fast it will make > > >your head spin, don't do it. > > > > > I don't think emailing it privately on request is a copyright violation. > > Actually it probably is, but the thing is that when you don't tell > about 50 people and do it real quite-like, no one knows and nothing > happens. > > But posting it to a list such as this (with industry and others > concerned about legal matters) it would be a very not-nice thing to > do. And repercussions would be forth coming. > For myself, I should add that if someone were to post summarized game information from the articles (i.e. the effects of cynabril) to the list, REMEMBERING TO PARAPHRASE, I don't think we'd get into trouble. But to post the complete articles would be a no-no -- not to mention disrespectful to Bruce Heard, who wrote the only good Mystaran fiction (IMHO, of course). Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 20:50:01 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! > For myself, I should add that if someone were to post summarized > game information from the articles (i.e. the effects of cynabril) to the > list, REMEMBERING TO PARAPHRASE, I don't think we'd get into trouble. > But to post the complete articles would be a no-no -- not to mention > disrespectful to Bruce Heard, who wrote the only good Mystaran fiction > (IMHO, of course). I agree (about both the paraphrasing exception and the high quality of Heard's writing), but I left the "don't draw attention, don't get caught" as the typical way to get around laws on the net. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:33:57 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > Actually this made me view the Humanoids from a different perspective. > Seeming crude and primitive from our eyes, but taking care of small > children they find in the caves. > Perhaps they have been done great injustice by TSR when they were labeled > with an evil alignment. > I mean, true they raid human villages, but what choice do they have? > Their holy lands (the broken lands) give them no other opportunities to > obtain wealth. They are cruel, but they have my sympathy, especially the > kobolds..being the lowest on the order of pecking... > BTW, did u notice that Kol is a SE? > Only according to the information given in the (very poorly designed, IMO) Glantri boxed set for the AD&D MYSTARA setting. I think that the only reason they did this was so that they would not have to make up new rules for allowing a Kobold to be the level that Kol is. I much prefer the OD&D Kol (seeing as how I am much more in favor of OD&D) or else the AD&D Kol witch doctor as presented by Ann Dupuis in the PWA 1012. (Frankly, I don't know how that stupid AD&D Glantri boxed set ever made it out of the factory- it is just terrible... but I've mentioned this before, so...) On another note, however, I am a big fan of humaniods in general, and I was very pleased to see Bruce Heard's take on them in GAZ10- it really started a trend towards sympathizing with humanoids, I think. They are the way they are because life has forced them to be that way- does that make them evil? Well, maybe, but only depending on your point of view. It's all relative, you know? ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 02:10:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline (Regarding Copyright) Herve MUSSEAU pontificated: > BTW, the author of the almanachs is Ann Dupuis, not Dupre. Sorry about that. I don't have any gameing stuffs with me now (I have to leave them back home when I left for school). And I had only 5 min. left before I needed to go to a class while I wrote that. - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 9:35:51 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > > > >BTW, did u notice that Kol is a SE? > > I was wondering if anyone would mention this fact, (I wasn't sure that I > remembered it correctly and kept forgetting to check.) > > Kol is a SE who was abandonded as a disfigured child and found by the > kobolds. This thread made me ask some interesting questions in my own > campaign. > > What would happen if the Shadow Elves discovered that one of their own is a > Prince in Glantri? Would they try to communicate with him, perhaps to get > Glantri's magics to aid the forest rejuvenation? Would they ignore Kol, or > even try somehow to furthur mask Kol's true origions so no one might > dicover the link between the shadow elves and the humanoids, something the > that might make the humans, elves and dwarves more unlikely to trust them. > > What would Kol do if he discovered his true race? Kol needs a magic using > heir to inherit his principality after his death, something his kobold > wives have been unable to provide. Would he try to contact the Shadow > Elves? Would he try to have a shadow elf child, who would of course be a > lot more likely to be capable of using spells? Would he resent his > abandonment and try to avenge himself, or would he continue to live as a > kobold. > > What would Kol's followers think? (It probably wouldn't be good.) What > would Synn think? (If there's a chance she can get Glantri to fight the > Shadow Elves she might be all for it.) What would the other princes think? > (Although I guess if they can adjust to a kobold prince, a shadow elf one > isn't that far behind.) > > There, I'm glad I got those questions out of me. I'm thinking of having > Kol come out of the Shadow Elf closet and I'd love to hear anyone's > opinions/suggestions on the above, and/or anything anyone's already done. > My opinion is Kol would try to contact the Shadow Elves somehow, but I've > never used Shadow Elves in my campaign before WotI (which I just played > about 6 months ago so I don't have the entire SE mindset down pat yet.) > > Thanks. > > -Bob > > p.s. This is my first message on this list, so if this has been addressed > before then never mind. :-) > > > Well, those are interesting questions. And since T$R drops the Mystara world, it's now up to us to answer them (if we decide that Kol is indeed a SE, that is) We can include those behind-the-scene events in our future net-almanachs. - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: "M. Shaffer" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 04:10:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! >I don't think emailing it privately on request is a copyright violation. This is a violation of copyright. It is illegal to send copyrighted material to anyone for any reason without the permission of the copyright holder. If you could just send things to anyone on private request, no one would buy the book, magazine, whatever. They would just ask their friends for a copy. It's a lot like software piracy. Lots of people make copies of programs for their friends, but it is still illegal because it robs the copyright holder of their just rewards for the effort they have put forth in making the material. Paraphrasing is ok, though. You can always transmit or copy the essence of what someone said, as long as you put it in your own words. M. Shaffer mshaffer@bluefin.net ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 13:46:02 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 15.00 23/01/96 +0100, you wrote: > > >BTW, did u notice that Kol is a SE? > > I remember reading something like that, but I don't remembere where. Could > you please tell me where I can found it ? The Glantri boxed set > > ************** > Fabrizio Paoli > DM in City Of The Stars > aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr > ************** Haavard Faanes. ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:25:51 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mystara] Humanoids On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > > > On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > > > BTW, did u notice that Kol is a SE? > > > Only according to the information given in the (very poorly designed, > IMO) Glantri boxed set for the AD&D MYSTARA setting. I think that the > only reason they did this was so that they would not have to make up new > rules for allowing a Kobold to be the level that Kol is. I much prefer > the OD&D Kol (seeing as how I am much more in favor of OD&D) or else the > AD&D Kol witch doctor as presented by Ann Dupuis in the PWA 1012. You may be right,it sounds like a T$R thing to do.(no offence intended?) I agree that the D&D version is better. still, it could have interesting effects. Besides, it is stated that shadowelves realize their heritage upon reaching higher levels. Perhaps Kol has just become aware of it?. Anyway, I think the boxed set should have made a note about it. > On another note, however, I am a big fan of humaniods in general, and I > was very pleased to see Bruce Heard's take on them in GAZ10- it really > started a trend towards sympathizing with humanoids, I think. They are > the way they are because life has forced them to be that way- does that > make them evil? Well, maybe, but only depending on your point of view. > It's all relative, you know? > Unfortunately, gaz 10 was too humorous for my liking. Mr Heard has pointed out himself, that the trolls were treated unfairly. However, as servants of entrophy, they myst be regarded as evil. (Though the sphere of Death is a neccesary evil, but please dont give me too much of that krynnish balance-talk) One interesting feature in gaz 10 is the sacred artifact of the humanoids; The Blue Knife. The blue knife is in fact a knife +1 according to the rules. However, trying to help out the Humanoids here, there could be more to it than that. After all the humanoids have been searchin for it for centuries. ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 14:44:02 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! At 04.10 24/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >>I don't think emailing it privately on request is a copyright violation. > >This is a violation of copyright. It is illegal to send copyrighted >material to anyone for any reason without the permission of the copyright >holder. If you could just send things to anyone on private request, no >one would buy the book, magazine, whatever. They would just ask their >friends for a copy. It's a lot like software piracy. Lots of people make >copies of programs for their friends, but it is still illegal because it >robs the copyright holder of their just rewards for the effort they have >put forth in making the material. > >Paraphrasing is ok, though. You can always transmit or copy the essence >of what someone said, as long as you put it in your own words. > Ok, you're right, but if you send it privately nobody knows and nothing happens. Do you think we can put on a web page things such as the Timeline of Events posted here some weeks ago or (as I feel) is a copyright violation ? And what would happen to me if I do that ? Will TSR find my page in Italy and shut it down ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #48 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #49 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 24 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 049 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 09:27:04 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mystara] Arik revisited. This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. - --0-1683125415-822497224:#3781 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Once again, with my take on the ideas put forth by the listers included. 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Lund." Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 09:46:04 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara > > Well, in OD&D (Mystara's true home, remember ...) the Prime > > Material is the only plane that is composed of all five spheres, thus > > allowing for really complex cultures that embrace a variety of > > philosophies -- like the Hollow World ... I've been meaning to adress this point for some time now - here goes ;) Why in all the myriad worlds would you WANT an even mix of the spheres in an area designed to _preserve_ a culture that is dying out due to disasters or changes/developements in tech ? You wouldn't want a lof of the Sphere of Thought (but why don't we just..) because that's the reason for change in the first place, or a very large component of Time ( I know we used to do it that way, but ..) because with Time comes change. And you CERTAINLY wouldn't wand a lot of Entropy ( Why'n'hell doesn't this work anymore ? ) because that is what causes cultures to collapse. You could do with a bit of Energy (I could do it more efficiently, but I've got power to burn, so why ?) and a lot of Matter ( This is the way it's ALWAYS been done, so...) Why muck about with huge area-effect spells, kill the _living creature_ that the Earth used to be according to the Gold-box set, and create the HUGE impossibility of the world shield when all you need is an outer plane lacking a significant presence of three spheres ? Particularily since an Outer Plane can come in any size, shape, and configuration. ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 16:42:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:00:32 +0100 (MET), Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: >Perhaps they have been done great injustice by TSR when they were labeled >with an evil alignment. That is true, I totally agree with you. >BTW, did u notice that Kol is a SE? What?! Where did you get this information from? Okay, he's very smart for a Kobold, and he has spell-casting abilities, but a SE? I don't know... Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 17:18:36 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara > > > > > Well, in OD&D (Mystara's true home, remember ...) the Prime > > > Material is the only plane that is composed of all five spheres, thus > > > allowing for really complex cultures that embrace a variety of > > > philosophies -- like the Hollow World ... > I've been meaning to adress this point for some time now - here goes ;) > Why in all the myriad worlds would you WANT an even mix of the spheres in > an area designed to _preserve_ a culture that is dying out due to > disasters or changes/developements in tech ? > You wouldn't want a lof of the Sphere of Thought (but why don't we > just..) because that's the reason for change in the first place, or a > very large component of Time ( I know we used to do it that way, but ..) > because with Time comes change. And you CERTAINLY wouldn't wand a lot of > Entropy ( Why'n'hell doesn't this work anymore ? ) because that is what > causes cultures to collapse. You could do with a bit of Energy (I could > do it more efficiently, but I've got power to burn, so why ?) and a lot > of Matter ( This is the way it's ALWAYS been done, so...) > Why muck about with huge area-effect spells, kill the _living creature_ > that the Earth used to be according to the Gold-box set, and create the > HUGE impossibility of the world shield when all you need is an outer > plane lacking a significant presence of three spheres ? Particularily > since an Outer Plane can come in any size, shape, and configuration. > The problem with an Outer Plane lacking 3 spheres is that Immortals of those spheres won't be happy about it. Moreover, the immortal law of non-direct intervention doesn't apply there. - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 11:06:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Book of Marvelous Magic > > > AC4: Book of Marvelous Magic > > > Summary: This book contains all of the miscellaneous magic > > > items from the Basic, Expert and Companion sets, plus 500 > > > new items. > > Is it good? > > For those who care, all of the magic items in this book are now in > the Encyclopedia Magica books. Which are? Bob Friend: " Prospects arms don't seem to be as strong as they used to be. Maybe they baby their arms. There are other things to do now. All we did was play baseball. None of that computer game stuff." ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 11:15:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Product List 4a/5 > >> of allies to help stave off the invasion. The end result > >> is Mystara's first world war. > >Or just the Known World? > > > Just the KW: when X10 was published Mystara was only the KW. Wait a sec-wasnt the master book out yet. That has the whole map of Mystara. And CM1 was out and spans more than the KW. Bob Friend: " Prospects arms don't seem to be as strong as they used to be. Maybe they baby their arms. There are other things to do now. All we did was play baseball. None of that computer game stuff." ------------------------------ From: kaelin@natural.com (Robert Kaelin) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 11:49:44 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion >>BTW, did u notice that Kol is a SE? > >What?! Where did you get this information from? Okay, he's very smart for a >Kobold, and he has spell-casting abilities, but a SE? I don't know... > OK, obviously before I asked the wrong questions. A lot of people seem to be against Kol being an SE. Why? The entire discussion, well my involvment in it anyway, started when someone said the SE's have a habit of leaving their disfigured children with humanoids, so why can't one of them be Kol? It would explain his extordinary spell casting ability for a kobold, and makes for a good story.... So, aside from general AD&D bias why wouldn't anyone use it? I agree the humanoid rules for level advancement were good in the Brokan Lands Gaz, and I still use them for all the other kobolds, just not for Kol anymore (he never was prominent in my campaign anyway before WotI so I didn't have to re-write him). I understand the unwillingness of some to use the new Glantri boxed set (which is where Kol is detailed as a shadow elf) but personally I thought they were done pretty well, and they update the areas with details from the first two Poor Wizards Almanacs (which I think were some of the best D&D supplements ever put out). So, let me ask a better question. Do most people ignore the new AD&D Mystara rules? (I don't care either way, but I won't bother submitting ideas based on them to any kind of net-almanac then.) I'm not talking about whether people use the AD&D stats or not (I convert them to basic), it seems a lot of people just ignore the entire boxed sets as some kind of marketing ploy by TSR.. I figure since I didn't get any answers on my questions about SE's and Kol, but I did get plenty of e-mail responses like "Kol isn't a SE in our world!!! It's just a cheap AD&D trick!!!" so I figure I made some type of fauxpas. I, do however, think there some of the ideas in them are very good, like the Kol/SE connection, and am dissapointed they seemed to be swatted away by so many. - -Bob (I'll just be quiet now.) :-) ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 17:58:20 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Tue, 23 Jan 96 17:04:48 MET, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: >In Gaz13 it is said that the disfigured children don't look very different >from ugly humanoids. Those that don't look like humanoids just are not >grown by them (they kill 'em outright). I didn't know this, but now your point is quite clear. If they aren't taken for SE they will not grow up being vengeful. I thought they would be recognizable as disfigured SEs. Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 17:58:21 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Tue, 23 Jan 96 17:07:35 MET, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: >That's just not that simple! Immortals are not allmighty, and most of the SE >who actively participated in Alfheim's invasion are probably not his most >ardent followers.. He just has to be careful that the other Immortals don't notice his contact to the outer world, his activities there. It'd be possible, and he will have many followers left in Aengmor. But perhaps he is still planning on opening a way to paradise for them and Aengmor is just a short intermezzo on their way to it... Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 17:58:23 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:48:38 AST, Nightshade wrote: >What >> would Synn think? >It's a way to get back at Hadelmarr. Do you think about Haldemaar? Did Synn ever have contact to him? Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 17:58:25 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:33:57 -0700 (MST), Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >(Frankly, I don't know how that stupid AD&D Glantri boxed set ever made >it out of the factory- it is just terrible... but I've mentioned this >before, so...) Why do you think so? I also own it and though it's not the best offer TSR ever made, it's better than e.g. DotE or the Northern Reaches Gazetteer, IMHO. Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:28:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Weapons On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, The Dark Elf. wrote: > Does anyone have any sugestions for the stats of a Rapier.... it's > mentioned in Glantri and Darokin but I would not think they would be the > same as the swords listed in the rules cyclopedia... > The AD&D stats are: Weight 4, Size M, Type: Piercing, Speed Fast(4), damage 1d6/1d8 I'd give some bonuses to parrying (or extra parries) since it was easy to parry with a rapier (basket hilt) and maybe bonuses against chain armour since the point could slip between the links. Possibly at higher levels of mastery an extra punch attack (with the hilt) could be allowed. __________ |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:33:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] New to Mystara On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: > > Right now let me say that I think the CD concept may have been a neat and > > probably an original idea, but it seriously lacked in usefulness. I could > > not stand it. I did like the artwork in the Karamiekos Boxed Set. Even > > though it was abundant and did take up space that could have been used to > > give more background info, it was good to compare the different artstyles of > > the Traldaran, Thyatian, and the New Karmiekean Style. > > > > The CD concept maybe good, but I hardly can't use it except for background > music (I'm French and not all of my players do speak English fluently.. I don't > understand why T$R didn't think of it..) > I was running Mark of Amber and ran into the reverse problem. TSR used French for Flemish. None of the characters were supposed to know Flaemish, but most the players spoke French fairly well. |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:37:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] New to Mystara On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: > > Also, looking at the Immortals. I have seen a couple posts in the list > > regardings Immortals and their priests. Anyone have anything that they use > > for specialty priests for Halav, Petra, and Zirchev. > > > > Someone has already released some specialty priests on the list. I'm not sure > but I think Halav has already been released. Maybe someone who archived it can > email it to you. I don't think I posted Halav yet. If someone remembers the last priest I posted tell me (I forget) or I could just repost all of them (I'm up to about 30 from Al-Kalim to Noumena) If anyone has suggestions on how to improve them let me know. |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #49 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #50 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, 25 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 050 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:21:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects (fwd) >uhh- they didn't give dates for modules, except the Blackmoor ones. I >would GUESS 1000 AC. I can't remember anything like Ericall attempting secession neither from PWA1 nor DotE. To me Ericall always seemed like a wimp, from his description in the above mentioned accessories. So-has history been rewritten so that Norworld did not rebel? ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:59:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Daniel Boese wrote: > > Hm. I've got most of the Princess Ark issues of Dragon; would it be a > copyright violation to type in the journals (especially the pre-CoM ones) > and post them here, or email them on request? Technically, yes. If you paraphrase well though no. The real problem is that the ideas are still TSR's so I don't know how well it would go over. But then E-mail is a non-permanent medium, so it might be considered exchanging info with a gaming group or some such. Personlly I think you should just post it and if they complain say "oh sorry" and stop. |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:15:09 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > >>BTW, did u notice that Kol is a SE? > > > >What?! Where did you get this information from? Okay, he's very smart for a > >Kobold, and he has spell-casting abilities, but a SE? I don't know... > > > > OK, obviously before I asked the wrong questions. A lot of people seem to > be against Kol being an SE. Why? The entire discussion, well my > involvment in it anyway, started when someone said the SE's have a habit of > leaving their disfigured children with humanoids, so why can't one of them > be Kol? It would explain his extordinary spell casting ability for a > kobold, and makes for a good story.... Because he was an excellent kobold, but the AD&D obsession with soap opera-like hidden family secrets and "unexpected" surprises (ie. like the 'good drow') makes things rather cheap. He was a good kobold, but making him a Shadow Elf cheapens the NPC and his (original) race - are we to surmise that any intelligent humanoid who shows one ounce of success is really a malformed demi-human? It shows TSR's general outlook: bad guys can't be successful, no matter how pathetic the good guys are. > So, let me ask a better question. Do most people ignore the new AD&D > Mystara rules? (I don't care either way, but I won't bother submitting > ideas based on them to any kind of net-almanac then.) I'm not talking > about whether people use the AD&D stats or not (I convert them to basic), > it seems a lot of people just ignore the entire boxed sets as some kind of > marketing ploy by TSR.. Have you compared the GAZ series to the (respective) boxed sets? A fraction of the price, higher information-per-page ratio, less extraneous things (like the CDs), more useful maps, etc. And if you wanted to convert them to AD&D, the rules were given in the books themselves. > -Bob (I'll just be quiet now.) :-) Don't be quiet (the world would be a lot better if more people spoke out, and listened). The reason for some (not all) of the anti- AD&D Mystara comes from one of the reasons for this list - to discuss Mystara as it was before Dragon #197 announced the AD&D thing. Many of us prefered that world (and the rules system that went with it) to what came out shortly before the line was killed (yes, yes, I know Red Steel is still around). HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:19:22 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > >What > >> would Synn think? > >It's a way to get back at Hadelmarr. > > Do you think about Haldemaar? Did Synn ever have contact to him? Yes, she's the reason the Princess Ark is so messed up. They came too close to her lair on Cestia and she's been the bane of their existance ever since. She threw the crew back in time (and back), messed with their minds in the Hollow World, kept getting Heldannics to attack them, etc. I would have liked to see what Bruce Heard was going to do with their antagonism. I don't think she encountered the new Ark (post- Spell) and the expanded crew would make her (un)life difficult - to say the least. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:21:25 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:33:57 -0700 (MST), > Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > > >(Frankly, I don't know how that stupid AD&D Glantri boxed set ever made > >it out of the factory- it is just terrible... but I've mentioned this > >before, so...) > > Why do you think so? I also own it and though it's not the best offer TSR > ever made, it's better than e.g. DotE or the Northern Reaches Gazetteer, > IMHO. I liked GAZ 7. Sure the adventures weren't the best, but at least it gave a list of regionally-correct names to choose from, much better than Conan the Glantrian or Hawkwind from Traladara. And the wise women class (and runes) weren't bad either. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 13:23:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: TSR Dropping Mystara...not! On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 04.10 24/01/96 -0500, you wrote: > >>I don't think emailing it privately on request is a copyright violation. > > > >This is a violation of copyright. It is illegal to send copyrighted > >material to anyone for any reason without the permission of the copyright > >holder. If you could just send things to anyone on private request, no > >one would buy the book, magazine, whatever. They would just ask their > >friends for a copy. It's a lot like software piracy. Lots of people make > >copies of programs for their friends, but it is still illegal because it > >robs the copyright holder of their just rewards for the effort they have > >put forth in making the material. > > > >Paraphrasing is ok, though. You can always transmit or copy the essence > >of what someone said, as long as you put it in your own words. > > > Ok, you're right, but if you send it privately nobody knows and nothing happens. > Do you think we can put on a web page things such as the Timeline of Events > posted here some weeks ago or (as I feel) is a copyright violation ? And > what would happen to me if I do that ? Will TSR find my page in Italy and > shut it down ? > They can try. They probably won't, last I checked they changed from shutting down whole servers for a few pictures, to actually asking nicely if you'd stop that. Personally, I've been distributing most the NetBooks on a WWW page for a while and TSR hasn't said thing even though I've advertised the fact to their Net Reps. The Timeline is NOT a copyright violation. TSR never published a compiled timline of Mystara, several smaller ones, but not a fully compiled one. To have a copyright you have to actually write it, not just think of the idea. So whoever wrote the Timeline has copyright on it just for writing it. Its kind of assumed that the author gave permission to distribute it, but that's why its polite to ask before sticking someones work on your web page. TSR can complain about us stealing their ideas, which is totally different matter, and distributing it among friends has kind of been given unofficial fair use status by TSR. Personally my opinion is do it, if they complain stop, but I doubt they'll even notice. |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 22:11:15 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] New to Mystara At 12.33 24/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >> >I was running Mark of Amber and ran into the reverse problem. TSR used >French for Flemish. None of the characters were supposed to know >Flaemish, but most the players spoke French fairly well. > French for Flemish, maybe French for Averoignian. I haven't got Mark of Amber, but I think that French=Averoignian (see PC4) and Flemish is something like Dutch. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 22:11:31 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion At 14.21 24/01/96 AST, you wrote: >> On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:33:57 -0700 (MST), >> Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >> >> >(Frankly, I don't know how that stupid AD&D Glantri boxed set ever made >> >it out of the factory- it is just terrible... but I've mentioned this >> >before, so...) >> >> Why do you think so? I also own it and though it's not the best offer TSR >> ever made, it's better than e.g. DotE or the Northern Reaches Gazetteer, >> IMHO. > > I liked GAZ 7. Sure the adventures weren't the best, but at >least it gave a list of regionally-correct names to choose from, much >better than Conan the Glantrian or Hawkwind from Traladara. And the >wise women class (and runes) weren't bad either. > Gaz7 is good, one of the best IMHO together with Gaz3, Gaz13 :-) and Gaz1. The worst Gaz, from my point of view, are Gaz2 (really awful), Gaz4 (poorly linked with the others) and DotE. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 22:11:34 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion At 17.58 24/01/96 +0100, you wrote: >On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:48:38 AST, >Nightshade wrote: > >>What >>> would Synn think? >>It's a way to get back at Hadelmarr. > >Do you think about Haldemaar? Did Synn ever have contact to him? > Yes, in the first chapters of the Princess Ark series, and it wasn't a painless contact for Haldemar... ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 22:11:37 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Product List 4a/5 At 11.15 24/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >> >> of allies to help stave off the invasion. The end result >> >> is Mystara's first world war. >> >Or just the Known World? >> > >> Just the KW: when X10 was published Mystara was only the KW. > >Wait a sec-wasnt the master book out yet. That has the whole map of >Mystara. >And CM1 was out and spans more than the KW. > Maybe you're right about the master book. I live in Italy, here the Master book was first published (in italian) about 2 years ago, while the Rules Cyclopedia (in english) is available since 1990, so I didn't buy the black box. However the war in X10 is located in the KW + Sind, with the Master of Hule as the enemy. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 22:11:40 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion At 11.49 24/01/96 -0500, you wrote: > >So, let me ask a better question. Do most people ignore the new AD&D >Mystara rules? (I don't care either way, but I won't bother submitting >ideas based on them to any kind of net-almanac then.) I'm not talking >about whether people use the AD&D stats or not (I convert them to basic), >it seems a lot of people just ignore the entire boxed sets as some kind of >marketing ploy by TSR.. > I started playing, better DMing because I never played RPG before, when Mystara was still a D&D setting. I had an hard time finding Gaz, modules and the like here in Italy, then came TSR saying: D&D is no more, now Mystara is an AD&D setting. I bought the 2 AD&D Almanacs, I bought the 2 Red Steel boxed sets and also the wonderful Encyclopedia Magica, but in my campaign _Mystara is D&D_. Now I also play AD&D in a Forgotten Realm campaign and I don't think it is much better, probably better than the original D&D (that of the Basic-Expert-... boxed sets) but not of D&D enhanced using the optional rules in the Gaz. BTW, I asked TSR why they converted, this is their answer (I hope not to violate the copyright): >With all of our D&D-related world being AD&D, it allowed us to >have our staff members cross product lines more easily - with two >different but similar sets of rules going on, it often made it >confusing or difficult when someone from one group to work on a project >from another group. This way, it allows creative people from any >team to participate in any project. > ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 17:56:31 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- So, let me ask a better question. Do most people ignore the new AD&D Mystara rules? (I don't care either way, but I won't bother submitting ideas based on them to any kind of net-almanac then.) I'm not talking about whether people use the AD&D stats or not (I convert them to basic), it seems a lot of people just ignore the entire boxed sets as some kind of marketing ploy by TSR.. - ------- REPLY, End of original message -------- If we're going to take a poll, I ignore WOTI, all AD&D versions, all Almanacs; essentially everything after the Gazetteers. Shelby ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 16:19:41 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Arik revisited. This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. - --0-1683125415-822497224:#3781 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: > (By the way: when Elric of Melnibone attacked and killed Xiombarg the > Duke of Swords and Jagreen Lern the sorcerer of Pan Tang at the final > battle in Stormbringer - he did so at the behest of Law. As the > reincarnation of the Eternal Champion he was ever sworn to fight chaos. This assumes that, in accepting the Elric stories, we have to accept all of Moorcock's Eternal Champion stories. Myself, I am not keen on accepting the Hawkmoon tales ... > No matter that Arioch the king of swords was his lord. But - it was not > Arioch who was to blame, it was not Arioch who led the final battle, > it was not Arioch who lost to Donblas the Justice Maker - it was > Chardros the Reaper. If anyone should be embarrased over that little > fiasco it should be Thanatos, the Chardros-analogue. Come to think > of it - if you choose to use the Arik-as-Arioch interpretation - that > might be WHY Thanatos would like to keep Arik away. He doesn't want > anyone who knows how badly he blew that one to come around and remind > him. It's a good idea though, but for reasons of copyright alone I don't > think we can use it. Be a terrible thing to have TSR get sued by Moorcock > and Chaosium over this AGAIN, wouldn't it ?) Ah, but that's the beauty of it. T$R would get sued for doing this (saying Arik=Arioch). WE would not. WE have no connection to T$R's hierarchy (praise be to whoever's listening for that). Everything here is unofficial ... And I don't think that Arik is really embarrassed by the events of ... that incident ... I think he's peeved at being made the scapegoat by Thanatos. In fact, your statements are probably exactly what Arik himself thinks as he broods eternally in his prison plane ... Chris Davies. - --0-1683125415-822497224:#3781-- ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 17:45:08 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Andrea Stadtfeld wrote: > On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:33:57 -0700 (MST), > Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > > >(Frankly, I don't know how that stupid AD&D Glantri boxed set ever made > >it out of the factory- it is just terrible... but I've mentioned this > >before, so...) > > Why do you think so? I also own it and though it's not the best offer TSR > ever made, it's better than e.g. DotE or the Northern Reaches Gazetteer, > IMHO. The major reasons for my dislike of the Glantri boxed set can be summed up thusly: 1) Very little new information- it was mainly just a reprint of all the Gazetteer information supplied in GAZ3, with a few additional things thrown in from the PWA's and the PC3: Nighthowlers supplement. I don't like the conversion to AD&D, so most of the statistics, etc. contained within were of no use to me. 2) Erroneous and/or illogical information- What I mean here is that some of the new information was, IMO, just badly thought out. For instance the whole Kol as a Shadowelf, I didn't like, but I suppose it is not too major a leap in logic. Other things, however, such as Prince Harald _giving_ away his dominion to a friend, and completely sidestepping established Glantri politics, really stuck in my craw. If anyone should have gotten his dominion, it should have been Duke Beaumarys-Moorkroft, as pointed out by Ms. Dupuis in the AC 1012 almanac (kudos to her for that and some of the other political 'bumps'- if only because they corresponded to similar 'bumps' I made after the AC 1010 almanac came out and ignored this issue). There is mention of metallic dragons in the wilderness, which are not even considered a part of MYSTARA in an AD&D sense, so how they showed up here is beyond me... Certain political figures are left out of the set- in particular one or two of the Traladaran/Vampire nobles that are mentioned in the GAZ, but somehow disappeared in the meantime. 3) The artwork- I personally thought the art was sloppy, very poorly done material. Those are the major points right there, though if I thought about it more, I am sure I could find another couple of issues. If I didn't own GAZ3, yes, I do think it would be a helpful accessory to own. The adventure is a tad too linear for my tastes, but so were all the old modules, and I have easily adapted most of those to my style of DMing. Is it a better effort than the DotE or the Northern Reaches? IMO, no, simply because it doesn't cover ground that I have not seen previously, due to my ownership of GAZ3. The format is certainly better than that of the Northern Reaches GAZ, which has a lot of useful information even so, and portions of it are better formatted than DotE, but a comparison with that product is difficult to make, due to the vast differences in scope both prodcts cover. (Two empires as opposed to one country). Of course, this is all IMO, so feel free to dismiss me at your discretion. :) ------------------------------ From: "M. Shaffer" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 02:45:18 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Re: Timeline of Events and Copyright... Regarding your question about whether you could put up the consolidated timeline on a Web page, you could always ask TSR for permission to post the items. If you are doing it for free and not asking anyone for money, they just might say ok. In order for TSR to shut down a page, they would have to talk to your internet provider. If your internet provider agreed with TSR, they could shut you down. In my opinion, the best way around all this is to ask permission. I have never dealt with TSR personally about such things, but I don't think they will be that unreasonable. You could even ask them if it was something you or they could post to _their_ web page. As far as I know, it is accessable to anyone on the Web, so the effect is the same as if you had posted it on your own page, and you avoid those sleepless nights that come from a bothered conscience :-). In summary, the best course is to ask. That way, there is no question that you intended to violate anyone's copyright. I think if you ask permission and show that you are willing to work with TSR, they will be reasonable and even helpful. ------------------------------ From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 9:18:39 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] New to Mystara > > > > On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: > > > > Right now let me say that I think the CD concept may have been a neat and > > > probably an original idea, but it seriously lacked in usefulness. I could > > > not stand it. I did like the artwork in the Karamiekos Boxed Set. Even > > > though it was abundant and did take up space that could have been used to > > > give more background info, it was good to compare the different artstyles of > > > the Traldaran, Thyatian, and the New Karmiekean Style. > > > > > > > The CD concept maybe good, but I hardly can't use it except for background > > music (I'm French and not all of my players do speak English fluently.. I don't > > understand why T$R didn't think of it..) > > > I was running Mark of Amber and ran into the reverse problem. TSR used > French for Flemish. None of the characters were supposed to know > Flaemish, but most the players spoke French fairly well. > > |] |] > |]ruce | ierpont > > In Mark of Amber, French isn't used for Fleamish, but for Averoignan (IIRC). And your players understood it? Well, *I* found it difficult to understand as a French (!) because of the very strong American accent. But you're probably American or Canadian.. (where's you're email address in that huge header??) - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 9:50:34 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > > -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > > > -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > > So, let me ask a better question. Do most people ignore the new AD&D > Mystara rules? (I don't care either way, but I won't bother submitting > ideas based on them to any kind of net-almanac then.) I'm not talking about > whether people use the AD&D stats or not (I convert them to basic), it seems > a lot of people just ignore the entire boxed sets as some kind of marketing > ploy by TSR.. > > ------- REPLY, End of original message -------- > > If we're going to take a poll, I ignore WOTI, all AD&D versions, all > Almanacs; essentially everything after the Gazetteers. > > Shelby > Well, I have always played in the D&D world with the AD&D rules (when I began RPGs, 1st ed. AD&D rules were just out in French, as were the first Gazeteer; at that time I didn't speak English..). So, I have always translated D&D stats to AD&D ones using my own judgement, and as such Mystara being a D&D or AD&D world is no diffence to me. And yes, I use WotI, the PWAs and such. I prefer a dynamic world to a static one, and I love to have my players involved in grand political and military events, and showing them the events under different points of view (eg let them side with Alphatia with one group of PCs, and with Thyatis/Glantri with others, and let them see there are no bad guys, just divergent interests. - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #50 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #51 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Friday, 26 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 051 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:42:21 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] New to Mystara On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, StarHawk wrote: > I don't think I posted Halav yet. If someone remembers the last priest I > posted tell me (I forget) or I could just repost all of them (I'm up to > about 30 from Al-Kalim to Noumena) > > If anyone has suggestions on how to improve them let me know. I must have missed these...if the other folks wouldnt be too irritated, please repost them...by the way..is there an archive? Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:05:41 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Oeystein H. Lund. wrote: > Why muck about with huge area-effect spells, kill the _living creature_ > that the Earth used to be according to the Gold-box set, and create the > HUGE impossibility of the world shield when all you need is an outer > plane lacking a significant presence of three spheres ? Particularily > since an Outer Plane can come in any size, shape, and configuration. > Kill the _living creature_ that earth used to be..? I assume you refere to the Megaliths from that box. 1st: it was never prooved that Mystara was a Megalith was it? 2nd: Hollowing a Megalith doesnt neccesarily kill it? Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:32:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Oeystein H. Lund. wrote: > > Why muck about with huge area-effect spells, kill the _living creature_ > > that the Earth used to be according to the Gold-box set, and create the > > HUGE impossibility of the world shield when all you need is an outer > > plane lacking a significant presence of three spheres ? Particularily > > since an Outer Plane can come in any size, shape, and configuration. > > > Kill the _living creature_ that earth used to be..? > I assume you refere to the Megaliths from that box. > 1st: it was never prooved that Mystara was a Megalith was it? Quote : ".. earth is such a creature, the Immortals made a deal with the megalith named Gaia before they started developing lifeforms on it's surface..." end quote. Tell me that doesn't say that the Earth - that is, Mystara, is a megalith. > 2nd: Hollowing a Megalith doesnt neccesarily kill it? Scooping out all your internal organs and your brain would tend to make a being wind up dead, now wouldn''t it ? I suppose it would be something along the lines of removing the interior matter in a sea urchin. Sure, the shell's there, but it's def'ntly dead now. Hey, I'm not knocking the Hollow World as a concept, I just wish they'd made it a bit more consistent with previous info. Hell, if they'd stuck it in the interior od Damocles I wouldn't have objected at all. Damocles is after all going to go the way of the dodo, and the structural instability inherent in a sphere _of that size_ without cross-bracing girders would be a good way for the planet to blow up. > Haavard Faanes > ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:30:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara > > Why muck about with huge area-effect spells, kill the _living creature_ > > that the Earth used to be according to the Gold-box set, and create the > > HUGE impossibility of the world shield when all you need is an outer > > plane lacking a significant presence of three spheres ? Particularily > > since an Outer Plane can come in any size, shape, and configuration. > Kill the _living creature_ that earth used to be..? > I assume you refere to the Megaliths from that box. > 1st: it was never prooved that Mystara was a Megalith was it? > 2nd: Hollowing a Megalith doesnt neccesarily kill it? Actually, one might consider the World-Shield itself to be the megalith, which could answer some of those questions our physics-oriented listmembers were asking.. (Too bad I don't remember the objections offhand. :) ) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:51:13 +0200 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion At 17:56 24.01.1996 -0500, you wrote: >If we're going to take a poll, I ignore WOTI, all AD&D versions, all >Almanacs; essentially everything after the Gazetteers. > >Shelby And why is that so? Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:15:05 +0200 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion At 11:49 24.01.1996 -0500, Robert Kaelin wrote: >I understand the unwillingness of some to use the new Glantri boxed set >(which is where Kol is detailed as a shadow elf) but personally I thought >they were done pretty well, and they update the areas with details from the >first two Poor Wizards Almanacs (which I think were some of the best D&D >supplements ever put out). I'm of the same opinion, the PWAs were great, in contrast to Joshuan's Almanac. >I figure since I didn't get any answers on my questions about SE's and Kol, >but I did get plenty of e-mail responses like "Kol isn't a SE in our >world!!! It's just a cheap AD&D trick!!!" so I figure I made some type of >fauxpas. I, do however, think there some of the ideas in them are very >good, like the Kol/SE connection, and am dissapointed they seemed to be >swatted away by so many. The idea is not too bad, and it would explain Kol's unique position and intelligence. I just was astounded to hear about though I own the Glantri box. I just overlooked, what a mess.:) >-Bob (I'll just be quiet now.) :-) You shouldn't. Okay, most of the folks here don't like the idea, but it's not your fault, you didn't make it up. Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:18:48 +0200 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion At 14:21 24.01.1996 AST, Nightshade wrote: > I liked GAZ 7. Sure the adventures weren't the best, but at >least it gave a list of regionally-correct names to choose from, much >better than Conan the Glantrian or Hawkwind from Traladara. And the >wise women class (and runes) weren't bad either. I had hoped for some nice adventure hooks and was completely disappointed. As Ii only own three of the Gaz I don't have much in comparison, but Ierendi and the Five Shires were far better, Ierendi being my favorite one. Tropical warmth seems to suit my style better than the cold north.;) Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:22:34 +0200 Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects (fwd) At 12:21 24.01.1996 -0500, Mischa Gelman wrote: >So-has history been rewritten so that Norworld did not rebel? Can't tell for sure, but I will look it up at home and inform you, if you don't own any of the Almanacs. Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: jam@wimsey.com (Jenni A. ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 08:58:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: TSR Cancelling D&D (was Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion) Fabrizio Paoli Said: > BTW, I asked TSR why they converted, this is their answer (I hope not to > violate the copyright): > > >With all of our D&D-related world being AD&D, it allowed us to > >have our staff members cross product lines more easily - with two > >different but similar sets of rules going on, it often made it > >confusing or difficult when someone from one group to work on a project > >from another group. This way, it allows creative people from any > >team to participate in any project. Are you serious? Thats the reply you got directly from TSR for their reasoning behind cancelling the D&D Rule Set? Arggg! Some team of "creative people" if their minds are so set they can't learn to develop ideas in two different areas. That's almost like suggesting an artist has to concentrate on just one medium -- say oil painting -- since they would get too confused if they alternated between the different requirments of another medium -- such as water colours or acrylics, not to mention other forms of art like rock carving and clay sculpting. This, of course, also suggests that all the various AD&D settings are so similar that switching from one project to another should now be a piece of cake. And as we know, this is not the case -- there are enought subtle differences between, say Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun and Al Quadim that their "creative people" would have to switch mind sets anyway. That has to be the *dumbest* reason to cancell D&D I've heard yet. *sigh* But try to tell THAT to TSR... - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield : ............ -=< strawberryJAMM >=- : Black Holes Are Merely jam@wimsey.com : Where God Divided By Zero http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/ : ............... ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:27:25 +0200 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion At 14:19 24.01.1996 AST, Nightshade wrote: > Yes, she's the reason the Princess Ark is so messed up. They came >too close to her lair on Cestia and she's been the bane of their >existance ever since. She threw the crew back in time (and back), >messed with their minds in the Hollow World, kept getting Heldannics >to attack them, etc. Ah, that's before my Princess Ark-time. I started reading the series after they got the new Ark, with this strange creature, what was her name, Berylith? Sorry to hear I missed the plot around Synn. > I would have liked to see what Bruce Heard was going to do with >their antagonism. I don't think she encountered the new Ark (post- >Spell) and the expanded crew would make her (un)life difficult - to >say the least. Sigh. The style of the series was great, it was a good read, and I'd have like Mystara novels about the Ark from Heard. TSR always misses the great ideas, they could have started a popular Mystara line of books. Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:57:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] New to Mystara On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 12.33 24/01/96 -0500, you wrote: > > >> > >I was running Mark of Amber and ran into the reverse problem. TSR used > >French for Flemish. None of the characters were supposed to know > >Flaemish, but most the players spoke French fairly well. > > > French for Flemish, maybe French for Averoignian. > I haven't got Mark of Amber, but I think that French=Averoignian (see PC4) > and Flemish is something like Dutch. > Sorry, Sylaire not Flaemish. I alwys seem to get them confused. |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: jam@wimsey.com (Jenni A. ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:34:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Latitudes & Longitudes Hi Mystarans ;-) All this talk about the size of Mystara got me thinking, about where on the surface of this globe all the continents and countries sat. I was wondering if anyone knew what the Latitudes and Longitudes of the various MAJOR cities & towns were? I also ask this for another reason: I was looking at the Trail Map for The Western Regions and noticed all the statistics accross the bottom of the page. These included times for sunrise/sunset and moonrise/moonset relative to some cities and their supposed latitude. However, because the hex maps are flat, and the only "globe" map (in the Cyclopedia) is so small its difficult to tell where all the countries sit, I'm having a hard time extrapolating from the limited data given. Why is it difficult? Because what appears to be more "northerly" on one map may not be as north as I might think because the map is flat while the underlying surface is spherical. Look at any real-world flat map that covers a largish area, similar in *relative* size to one of the Mystaran countries (e.g. the three prairy provinces in Canada (Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba) are about the same *realative* size to the earth as the Republic of Darokin is to Mystara) and you'll notice that the latitude lines tend to curve down or up, more or less, depending on how northerly or southerly the area is.) I've also been thinking about weather patterns, since this same trail map provides a very nice method of calculating the weather. And while the map DOES list most of the major cities and towns, not knowing their relative latitudes does make it harder to extrapolate weather patterns for the inbetween areas. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield : ............ -=< strawberryJAMM >=- : Black Holes Are Merely jam@wimsey.com : Where God Divided By Zero http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/ : ............... ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:07:06 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara > > Kill the _living creature_ that earth used to be..? > > I assume you refere to the Megaliths from that box. > > 1st: it was never prooved that Mystara was a Megalith was it? > Quote : ".. earth is such a creature, the Immortals made a deal with > the megalith named Gaia before they started developing lifeforms on it's > surface..." end quote. Tell me that doesn't say that the Earth - that is, > Mystara, is a megalith. The problem is, Oeystein, not all of us have access to the Gold Box. Moreover, while I respect Frank Mentzer immensely ... the things he wrote for the KW aren't really in continuity anymore. (For example, the Masters Set planetary map -- the continents are still right, but since then other writers have rejected the countries he set on it. I mean, Thyatis conquers the whole area on the Expert set map? When, for heaven's sake? The Alphatians just let this happen?) So, I don't think Mystara is a megalith. (Anymore than I think the Immortals created all the species of life on it ...) If it is, I think that it was probably killed in the meteoric crash that led the Immortals to discover the Hollow World. (Now there's a bloody grim image for you ... all the races of Mystara are just vermin picking on a disintegrating corpse ...) Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:21:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Latitudes & Longitudes With the 1011 AC almanac and some quick calculator figuring, here's some approximate values for latitude: Norrvik: 48.6 degrees N Glantri City: 47.1 degrees N Soderfjord: 46.6 degrees N Rockhome: 45.6 degrees N Ylaruam: 43.2 degrees N Aengmor: 43.2 degrees N Saur Ulan, Sind: 43.2 degrees N Darokin City: 42 degrees N Mirros, Karameikos: 39.6 degrees N Thyatis City, Thyatis: 39 degrees N Ierendi: 37.2 degrees N Minrothad: 36.6 degrees N Slagovich: 36.6 degrees N Jaibul: 36 degrees N Tanakumba, Yavdlum: 15 degrees N Raven Scarp, Davania: 12 degrees N Also.. I was just looking at the HW Outer-World, Precataclysmic map, and noticed that the Thonia and Blackmoor labels seem to have been switched. (Especially considering Blackmoor was to the northwest of Thonia, from the DA series. :) ) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: jam@wimsey.com (Jenni A. ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:31:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Latitudes & Longitudes > With the 1011 AC almanac and some quick calculator figuring, > here's some approximate values for latitude: > [SNIP] Thanks Daniel! Do you think you could do the same for Correnglain and Akoros in Darokin, and Shireton in The Five Shires? - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield : ............ -=< strawberryJAMM >=- : Black Holes Are Merely jam@wimsey.com : Where God Divided By Zero http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/ : ............... ------------------------------ From: PoorWizard@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 20:11:44 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Re:TSR Cancelling D&D According to Bruce Heard, via AOL, the D&D game was only intended to provide an introduction to the AD&D game; it had exceeded its "mission statement" over the years by becoming more complete and sophisticated, until it was seen as a competitor with the AD&D game. Many gamers used the D&D rules without ever moving on the AD&D rules system, and this was unacceptable to TSR's marketing division. Apparently, D&D was a victim of it's own success. ------------------------------ From: PoorWizard@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 20:12:18 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Princess Ark >Sigh. The style of the series was great, it was a good read, >and I'd have like Mystara novels about the Ark from Heard. >TSR always misses the great ideas, they could have started >a popular Mystara line of books. > >Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon This sounds like a great idea, but they probably would have thought it was competing with the SpellJammer novels... On a somewhat related note, what is the consensus of opinion on the Champions of Mystara material? Is it just a repeat of the Princess Ark series, or does it have much new information? ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 20:22:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Latitudes & Longitudes > > With the 1011 AC almanac and some quick calculator figuring, > > here's some approximate values for latitude: > > [SNIP] > > Thanks Daniel! Do you think you could do the same for > Corunglain and Akoros in Darokin, and Shireton in The Five Shires? Let's see... I'm using 60 miles north/south = 1 degree, so using the 1011 AC map... Shireton: 40.2 degrees N Corunglain: 44.4 degrees N Akoros: 39.7 degrees N (Note that these are all +/- 1 degree each.. 72 miles/hex maps aren't that accurate. :) ) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: PoorWizard@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 20:26:16 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Glantri: Now and Then I have a question about the Glantri boxed set: how has the Radiance been altered by the transition to AD&D? I know that the Nucleus of the Spheres originally "reacted" with essential Energy, but was altered to react with Entropy in Wrath of the Immortals. I have read that this change was overlooked in the Glantri box, but that the Radiance was still presented in a manner incompatible with the original description. Since I don't own the AD&D Glantri box, I can't check this out for myself, so would appreciate any information or opinions on the difference between the D&D and AD&D versions of the Radiance. ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 05:56:33 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Chris Davies wrote: > > Quote : ".. earth is such a creature, the Immortals made a deal with > > the megalith named Gaia before they started developing lifeforms on it's > > surface..." end quote. Tell me that doesn't say that the Earth - that is, > > Mystara, is a megalith. > > The problem is, Oeystein, not all of us have access to the Gold > Box. Moreover, while I respect Frank Mentzer immensely ... the things he > wrote for the KW aren't really in continuity anymore. (For example, the > Masters Set planetary map -- the continents are still right, but since then > other writers have rejected the countries he set on it. I mean, Thyatis > conquers the whole area on the Expert set map? When, for heaven's sake? > The Alphatians just let this happen?) Oooh - I think I should have prefaced this entire discussion with a big caveat - In My Campaign, IMC, this is till how it works, see. WoTI isn't in MY campaign's continuioty, and probably never will be. I have my own plans for Alphatia, have had ever since I read CM1 way back in '85/86 and saw that it was associated with Atlantis. And - I've always assumed that the areas marked off on the KW map in the master's set were cultural influence areas rather than actual empires. Seeting aside for a moment the issue of the culturally inhomogenous gazeteers, you have to admit that Thyatis has had a profound influence on the entire known world area - and at one point it covered a lot more ground than it does in the 'present'. In fact, the entire 'return to greatness/Empire Reborn' storyline this sets up makes a whole lot more sense to me than the nonsensical _fear_ or knowledge that Ixion, god of _research_ displays in WoTI. Demons (fiends) below, the only way to realize the potential of the Radiance and finding a way to reverse the effects it ALREADY have had on the Mystaran magic is MORE research - not medieval anti-science, retro-new-age backpedalling like the impostor with Ixion's name is spouting in WotI. (Can you tell I'm an engineer ?) I just find it a whole lot more interesting to run a 'Thyatis tries reconquering the Known World' storyline than 'For no good reason, the Immortals decide to ruin the world'. The Master (probably second or third to carry the religious title of Master) had a good reason to invade in X10 - he was looking for Immortality in the sphere of entropy. The large-scale destructin potential inherent in a Holy War (as WotI also demonstrates) is of particular interest to the Entropics. Personally, I feel that th Master was Thanatos' ltest protegee. I'm trying to sort out the consisten background from my campaign from the war on so I have some basis for future plotting, by the way. I'm (among other things) considering the ramifications of the way the war played out IMC - and it's turning into a pretty large text file. I probably won't post this to the list as it's of limited interest, but if anyone's interested in seeing it I'll be happy to email it. Among features of note is my analysis of the Master's real objectives, and why the Heldannic knights are in a state of panic and backpedalling from Norwold's borders as fast as they can. > So, I don't think Mystara is a megalith. (Anymore than I think > the Immortals created all the species of life on it ...) If it is, I > think that it was probably killed in the meteoric crash that led the > Immortals to discover the Hollow World. (Now there's a bloody grim image > for you ... all the races of Mystara are just vermin picking on a > disintegrating corpse ...) > > Chris Davies. Umm, I think I said 'developed', not created - they took what was there and improved upon it. But aside from that quibble.. ayup, that's a sufficiently grim image :) Actually, that's just about the only way I can think of to justify the existence of the Hollow World without recousing to the Old Ones - whom I empathcally disbelieve interfering in their own experiment in such a _blatant_ fashion. Someone shoots the Megalith with an armour-piercing asteroid and blow it's brains out through one polar hole- the other one being the entry wound... and the crust that's left is the once-living remains of the creature's real shell. Of course, that means that Mystara IS doomed. Once the megalith is dead, the shield/shell WILL decompose and grow structurally brittle... and eventually collapse. This will probably kill all life there. Hey, this sounds like a backup plan for Thanatos, if the Sword plot doesn't work :) ( I'm still not going to incorporate it into my campaign, but if I were, I'd use this...) ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #51 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #52 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Friday, 26 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 052 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 06:10:21 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects (fwd) On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > >uhh- they didn't give dates for modules, except the Blackmoor ones. I > >would GUESS 1000 AC. > I can't remember anything like Ericall attempting secession neither from > PWA1 nor DotE. To me Ericall always seemed like a wimp, from his > description in the above mentioned accessories. > > So-has history been rewritten so that Norworld did not rebel? > The descriptions of the well-meaning but ineffectual king doesn't do the Ericall of CM1, CM2, CM4, M1, M2, and so on justice. One - Ericall is in fact trying to be what he perceives as a good king, based on a) -his Alphatian upbringing, and b) Thincol Thorion of Thyatis' writings on military tactics and political structure. Neither governments are a) good, b) Lawful. So, what we end up with is a Lawful man basing a govenrment on the equivalent of Machiavelli's tracts on politics, Sun Tzu's strategy manuals, and Von Clauzewit's "On Wars". All of the above advocate that doing whatever it takes to stay in power is the moral thing for a leader to do - it's just that not everything a leader CAN do that will help him stay in power in the long term. (Machaveli has been much maligned by people who haven't actually read his writings., in particular the Prince. Brutal repression and political treachery are only effective in the short term, he argues - and are as such not legitimate means for anyone to use, since they fail in the long term. Anything that fails in the long term fails Machiavelli's morality test.) The description in Dawn of the Emperors fail to take into accound one basic fact before they state that 'Ericall just isn't a very good king'. He has the immense bad luck to have Heroes among his barons. And Heroes attract enemies. Just look at the pure hell I'm going to put Norwold through in my 'Apocalypse' story arc, and the pain they're in for in the CM/M series of modules. It's all those damn heroe's fault I tell you - heroes NEED enemies that are a contrast to themselves to be heroes. And the more powerful and shining the heroes are, the blacker, viler, and mightier the enemies become... ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 06:22:28 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote: > > [5 spheres, 4 elemnts are neccessary for a living, complex culture] [You don't WANT a living, complex culture when the idea is to preserve a snapshot of that culture at one point in time. The more living and complex it is, the faster it will change. To stop changing is to stagnate, and to stagnate is to die in any living system. To stop change, without stagnation, you have to stop the factors responsible for change.] > > The problem with an Outer Plane lacking 3 spheres is that Immortals of those > spheres won't be happy about it. Moreover, the immortal law of non-direct > intervention doesn't apply there. > -- > Herve Musseau > musseauh@esiee.fr Well, first off, th Hollow World isn't there to make anyone hapy - second - why should anyone care that a single outer plane, natuarlly devoid of certain spheres, is used to preserve dying/dead cultures by some immortals ? Just about every outer plane there is has some sort of Sphere/Element imbalance - that doesn't enrage anyone ? And about the Law - what do you call the Hollow World anyway ? non-intervention ? By rights the whole thing should have been impounded and the lot of'em on the Hollow World council impeached for breaking the Prime Law. The Hollow World is on the Prime - the Council is interfering with magic, and mortals in the Hollow World - the Council is breaking the Prime Law. Pretty straightforward, IMHO. On the other hand, that wouldn't be the case for an outer plane. Yes, other Immortals could meddle to their heart's content. Would they do it ? Would you meddle in the pet project of EVERY reigning hierarch of EVERY sphere plus some pretty damn powerful others ? I don't think that's reaonable to suppose.... exept maybe Thanatos, and even he'd be damn careful about it.... ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 15:26:21 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Latitudes & Longitudes At 20.22 25/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >> > With the 1011 AC almanac and some quick calculator figuring, >> > here's some approximate values for latitude: >> > [SNIP] > >Let's see... I'm using 60 miles north/south = 1 degree, so using the >1011 AC map... In PC4 Night Howlers (page 12 of the DM guide) it states that 1 degree of latitude is roughly 80 miles. Moreover the following calculations >Thyatis City, Thyatis: 39 degrees N >Tanakumba, Yavdlum: 15 degrees N don't fit with PWA2, where Thyatis City is 30 degrees N (oh, well, here you're right) and Tanakumba is 20 degrees N. BTW, don't you think the tima zones for the New Alphatian Region given in the 1010 AC map are wrong according to PWA2 (1 hour for each 800 miles traveled east or west) ? And where should we put Karameikos in the PWA2 Time Zones chart: 11 AM or Noon ? What about Rockhome & Aengmor ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 15:26:13 +0100 Subject: Re: TSR Cancelling D&D (was Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion) At 08.58 25/01/96 -0800, you wrote: >Fabrizio Paoli Said: >> BTW, I asked TSR why they converted, this is their answer (I hope not to >> violate the copyright): >> >> >With all of our D&D-related world being AD&D, it allowed us to >> >have our staff members cross product lines more easily - with two >> >different but similar sets of rules going on, it often made it >> >confusing or difficult when someone from one group to work on a project >> >from another group. This way, it allows creative people from any >> >team to participate in any project. > > Are you serious? Thats the reply you got directly from TSR for their >reasoning behind cancelling the D&D Rule Set? Arggg! Some team of >"creative people" if their minds are so set they can't learn to develop >ideas in two different areas. That's almost like suggesting an artist >has to concentrate on just one medium -- say oil painting -- since they >would get too confused if they alternated between the different >requirments of another medium -- such as water colours or acrylics, not >to mention other forms of art like rock carving and clay sculpting. > That's the answer I got from Sean Reynolds: TSR Online Coordinator at TSRinc@aol.com > This, of course, also suggests that all the various AD&D settings are >so similar that switching from one project to another should now be a >piece of cake. And as we know, this is not the case -- there are >enought subtle differences between, say Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun and >Al Quadim that their "creative people" would have to switch mind sets >anyway. > I only know FR, but I think AD&D rules are the same everywhere and Sean Reynolds was talking about rules, not setting differences. > That has to be the *dumbest* reason to cancell D&D I've heard yet. > > *sigh* But try to tell THAT to TSR... > ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 15:26:17 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re:TSR Cancelling D&D At 20.11 25/01/96 -0500, you wrote: >According to Bruce Heard, via AOL, the D&D game was only intended to provide >an introduction to the AD&D game; it had exceeded its "mission statement" >over the years by becoming more complete and sophisticated, until it was seen >as a competitor with the AD&D game. Many gamers used the D&D rules without >ever moving on the AD&D rules system, and this was unacceptable to TSR's >marketing division. Apparently, D&D was a victim of it's own success. > > It can't be true ! I can't understand how a product could be victim of is own success. It's unbelievable... ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 15:26:25 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Mystara languages v 1.2 This is the (almost) complete list of human languages in Mystara outer world (KW+RS+PWA)and how they are linked toghether (IMO). Alphatian (Alphatian Empire, Minaean Coast, Glantri (Flaemish), Helskir, Ochalea) Thyatian (Thyatian Empire, Alatian Islands,Five Shires, Glantri, Heldann (Hattian),Ierendi (for trade), Helskir, Karameikos, Norwold, Rockhome) Atruaghin (Atruaghin clans, probably different from clan to clan, the Horse Clan doesn't have a spoken language but uses hand signals.) Darokinian (Darokin, Five Shires, Ierendi, Sind (not much)) Milenian (many dialects in Davania) Thratian (Thyatian Hinterlands) Denagoth (Denagoth) Jennite (Jen, Esterhold, Minaean Coast) Ethengarian (Ethengar, Glantri) Traldaran (Karameikos, Glantri) Averoignian (Glantri) Kaelic (Glantri) Urduk (Sind, Sind Desert, Barren Plain) Sindhi (Sind, Sind Desert, Barren Plain) Heldannic (Heldann, Northern Reaches, Norwold, Qeodhar, Wendar) Hulean or Hulian (Hule) Makai (Ierendi) Thotian (Thotia) Minaean (Minaean Coast) Minrothad (Minrothad) Nuar (Pearl Islands) Karimari (Ulimwengu) Yavdlom or Yavi (Yavdlom) Ylari (Ylaruam) Emerondian (Emerond) Slag (Savage Coast Common tongue, used in the city-states, the Savage Baronies, Robrenn, Eusdria, Renardry and Herath, known by traders in southern Hule, northern Yavdlom, Bellayne and Tortles ) Slagich (City States) Verdan (Vilaverde, Texeira) Espa (the other Savage Baronies) Ranax (Robrenn) Eusdrian (Eusdria) After reading the complete Timeline (thanks Daniel), I can draw the following conclusion: In Mystara there are 4 alien languages: Alphatian/Flaemish, Averoignian, Kaelic (Klantrian Gaelic, by Chris Davies) and Emerondian. We can recognize 4 main languages in Mystara: Oltec/Azcan, Tanagoro, Neathar, Nithian. From Tanagoro come Nuar and Yavdlom (with Sheyallia Elvish influence). From Nithian originate Thotian, Ylari and Traldar, and from this come Milenian and Slagich. Neathar is the "father" of Makai, Urduk and Antalian. From the last one come Eusdrian, Heldannic, Thratian and Thyatian. From the Oltec/Azcan group come Jennite, Sindhi (with Urduk influx) and Minaean (with strong Milenian influence). Slag is similar to Thyatian, Verdan and Espa. Ethengarian and Denagoth aren't linked to any other language. Darokinian should be a mix of Nithian, Traldar, Ylari and probably Sindhi, Elvish and Thyatian. Minrothad Patois is a mix of all languages. Glantrian is (according to Chris) a technical language that takes words from Flaemish, Averoignian, Traldar, Thyatian, Kaelic, Alphatian, 2 Elvish dialects, Ethengharian and maybe Sindhi. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 15:51:09 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Oeystein H. Lund. wrote: > > 1st: it was never prooved that Mystara was a Megalith was it? > Quote : ".. earth is such a creature, the Immortals made a deal with > the megalith named Gaia before they started developing lifeforms on it's > surface..." end quote. Tell me that doesn't say that the Earth - that is, > Mystara, is a megalith. You are right. My appologies. I didnt remember it as beeing more than just speculations, as much else in that box is. > > 2nd: Hollowing a Megalith doesnt neccesarily kill it? > > Scooping out all your internal organs and your brain would tend to > make a being wind up dead, now wouldn''t it ? I suppose it would be > something along the lines of removing the interior matter in a sea > urchin. Sure, the shell's there, but it's def'ntly dead now. I dont agree with you. A living planet?..What makes you compare that to any other living organism..Ofcourse you may be right, the comparison isnt neccesarily relevan. BTW why wasnt the megalith mentioned in the new immortals set? > Hey, I'm not knocking the Hollow World as a concept, I just wish they'd > made it a bit more consistent with previous info. Hell, if they'd stuck > it in the interior od Damocles I wouldn't have objected at all. > Damocles is after all going to go the way of the dodo, and the > structural instability inherent in a sphere _of that size_ without > cross-bracing girders would be a good way for the planet to blow up. Damocles... Now that you mention it, what do you people thik of Mystaran cosmology? The solar system was ,according to the Gold Box, very similar to earths, though the inner planet was missing and there were to extra planets one where the asteroid belt is in our syatem and one beyond the equivalent of pluto.( Mr.Lund please correct me if any of this is wrong, I do not have the gold box available at the moment.) Do you, subscribers of this list use this info or what? Haavard Faanes. ------------------------------ From: kaelin@natural.com (Robert Kaelin) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:54:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Glantri: Now and Then >I have a question about the Glantri boxed set: how has the Radiance been >altered by the transition to AD&D? I know that the Nucleus of the Spheres >originally "reacted" with essential Energy, but was altered to react with >Entropy in Wrath of the Immortals. I have read that this change was >overlooked in the Glantri box, but that the Radiance was still presented in a >manner incompatible with the original description. Since I don't own the >AD&D Glantri box, I can't check this out for myself, so would appreciate any >information or opinions on the difference between the D&D and AD&D versions >of the Radiance. OK, here's how I understand the Radiance in it's 3 presentations. If I miss anything please correct me. - -D&D before WotI The radiance drained energy from the sphere of Energy. The more people who used it, i.e. the size of the Brotherhood of the Radiance, indicated how fast magic was drained. I believe the radiance was almost drained to a point where magic would be lost 1 day a year, but that was still 30-50 years away in the Gaz. (I'm not real sure on that number.) - -D&D during/after WotI Rad hooks a DoomsDay machine up directly to the Radiance. He draws off enough power in a test, that destroys the Alphatian capital, to make magic stop working for an entire week. At the end of the adventure the radiance gets altered, whether the PC's actually succeed or not, to drain energy from the Sphere of Entropy. This "saves" magic as it is known in Glantri, as furthur experimentation with the Radiance won't drain magic itself from the world. The Radiance was drained somewhat, however, and now magic fails 1 day of the year. Rad gets sucked into the Radiance by an Old One, at least we have to assume it was, and disappears (until Mark of Amber that is.) - -Glantri Boxed Set The radiance still drains power from the sphere of energy. (Of course the AD&D rules don't mention the Sphere of energy, they just say it's draining magic from the world.) Rad had allegdly drained so much power from the Radiance that magic would fail for 1 week every year, but when he was pulled into the Radiance it somehow "recharged" it to a point where it only fails 1 day a year. The Brotherhood is still draining magic from the Radiance, and hence the world. I believe the rules hint that it may be possible to recharge the Radiance again, but that's left very vauge, as it should be. Aside from the fact that it drains power from Energy though I don't remember any real differences. As for why they change the Radiance back to Energy from Entropy. I can only assume the AD&D game makers didn't want the source of all magic in a world associated directly with the powers of evil. It's probably part of all that "Devil-Baatezu" thing. I play the Radiance as follows. It really was converted to drain power from Entropy, which was a major blow to the Immortals of Entropy. This made those immortals VERY upset with the players, and Glantri. The immortals of Entropy, however, did not take this laying down and have begun to "taint" the radiance. Using their new connection to the Radiance they're contacting and trying to control anyone, or anything, connected to the Radiance. This has made working with the Radiance slightly more difficult, and makes controlling it a lot harder. I have Mark of Amber and I'm considering bringing Rad back, but I don't see any good reason to yet. Glantri would lose a lot of the changes it's made if Rad was back in charge. This is also part of Synn's "mission" in Glantri in my campaign, to infiltrate the Brotherhood of the Radiance and encourage the entropic changes in it's members. It's all just another day in Glantri. - -Bob ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:06:11 +0100 (MET) Subject: Gazetteers (formerly Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion) On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Andrea Stadtfeld wrote: Concerning Gaz 7 the Nothern Reaches: > I had hoped for some nice adventure hooks and was completely disappointed. > As Ii only own three of the Gaz I don't have much in comparison, but Ierendi > and the Five Shires were far better, Ierendi being my favorite one. Tropical > warmth seems to suit my style better than the cold north.;) I will not drag this into a debate on what gazetteer that is best. The politics and NPC sections of Gaz 7 are not so good, but the descriptions of the land and of the humanoids are quite good. BTW, cold north, im having a bit of a problem with defining tghe climate of the varous regions of mystara...The Nothern Reaches were created with the scandinavian countries in mind, so the climate should probably, be soewhat similar to those. If so what of Heldann and Norwold? Even colder climate?...who could live there? Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:15:59 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Andrea Stadtfeld wrote: > At 11:49 24.01.1996 -0500, Robert Kaelin wrote: > >I figure since I didn't get any answers on my questions about SE's and Kol, > >but I did get plenty of e-mail responses like "Kol isn't a SE in our > >world!!! It's just a cheap AD&D trick!!!" so I figure I made some type of > >fauxpas. I, do however, think there some of the ideas in them are very > >good, like the Kol/SE connection, and am dissapointed they seemed to be > >swatted away by so many. > > The idea is not too bad, and it would explain Kol's unique position and > intelligence. I just was astounded to hear about though I own the Glantri > box. I just overlooked, what a mess.:) I agree, that the idea isnt too bad. Still I like the idea of the Kobolds making their place in the world. And as the rise of the kobolds scenario is happening in the Northern reaches as well... I dont know...but why did the new almanac not support the idea of Kol being a Shadowelf? Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 11:20:11 AST Subject: Re: Gazetteers (formerly Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion) > I will not drag this into a debate on what gazetteer that is best. > The politics and NPC sections of Gaz 7 are not so good, but the > descriptions of the land and of the humanoids are quite good. > BTW, cold north, im having a bit of a problem with defining tghe climate > of the varous regions of mystara...The Nothern Reaches were created with > the scandinavian countries in mind, so the climate should probably, be > soewhat similar to those. If so what of Heldann and Norwold? > Even colder climate?...who could live there? Heldann has always been seen (in my mind at least) like Finland in its climate (and Warhammer FRPG in feel). Norwold is quite similar to Northeastern Canada, from Landfall (like the maritimes- intense and dramatic shifts in environment between summer and winter) to the tundra plains (cold desert, like above the Canadian Shield) - arctic conditions. As for who would live there, well forest and mountain barbarians (who migrate according to the seasons), dwarves (who live in the IceReach mountains), Foresthome elves and Leehan hin (who use clan relics to lessen the cold), Frost Giants (of course), Dragons (who like being left alone), etc. > Haavard Faanes HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:21:37 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Daniel Boese wrote: > Actually, one might consider the World-Shield itself to be the megalith, > which could answer some of those questions our physics-oriented > listmembers were asking.. (Too bad I don't remember the objections > offhand. :) ) Im not quite sure about this, but doesnt one of the immortals, Terra or Ordana, believe that Mystara actually is a living planet according to the new immortals set? Ill check it when i get home. Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:47:11 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Princess Ark On Thu, 25 Jan 1996 PoorWizard@aol.com wrote: > On a somewhat related note, what is the consensus of opinion on the Champions > of Mystara material? Is it just a repeat of the Princess Ark series, or does > it have much new information? It had some new info about the Serpent peninsula, that i had not seen before. I havent read all the Ark series though. Besides, there was info on creating flying ships, and ideas for space campaigns. I liked it, though I was disappointed that the early episodes of the voyage were excluded. Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: kaelin@natural.com (Robert Kaelin) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 11:07:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion >I dont know...but why did the new almanac not support the idea of Kol >being a Shadowelf? Because I don't believe he, or just about anyone else, knows. Nor may anyone ever find out. It's possible someone may come forward who was present at the time, or that someone may find out, but why would they come speak out? IMC the more powerful of the Princes suspect it (They just don't hand over a principality, even in the wartime, without knowing A LOT about the candidate.), but they don't really care. Kol isn't powerful enough to discover it through magic alone at present but maybe one day... I do think it could be an interesting plot though. The main reason the Princes gave Kol a principality, aside from Synn's suggestions, was to help keep the humanoids under control in the Great Crater. What happens if the very leader of those people turns out to be someone the humanoids might revolt against? Maybe a little kobold civil war in the Great Crater? With Kol, whose magical powers will increase the longer he's a Prince, leading a faction of humanoids into a more civilized, structured society. I don't agree with the people who think of Kol as AD&D's way of saying humanoids can't ever win, I think he'll lead them well. The Glantri Boxed set does say Kol desperately wants a magical heir to succeed his Principality when he dies however. If he finds out his true race, I have to imagine he'll try to find a shadow elf wife to have a child, maybe the humaoids of Glantri could be led by shadow elves for generations and never know it. By the way, has anyone done anything interesting with the Great Crater? I really wanted to see some supplement come out detailing it, which I think the WotI calls "the largest dungeon in the known world." - -Bob ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 11:03:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Re: Gazetteers (Climate of Northern Reaches) Haavard Roenne Faanes pontificated: > BTW, cold north, im having a bit of a problem with defining tghe climate > of the varous regions of mystara...The Nothern Reaches were created with > the scandinavian countries in mind, so the climate should probably, be > soewhat similar to those. If so what of Heldann and Norwold? > Even colder climate?...who could live there? > Well, my explantion of that is the Northern Reach are not suppose to be that cold. But the phenomenon in Ylarum (gates to plane of fire stuff), which is making it hotter than normal is also draining heat away from the NR. Go north a bit more it will actually be a bit wormer. Also, a worm sea current also helps out the land way up north. - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #52 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #53 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Saturday, 27 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 053 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 12:41:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Elven Treekeepers? Someone emntioned the Alfheim GAZ gives infgo on playing treekeepers. I thought these were exclusively NPCs. Any help would be appreciated. Bob Friend: " Prospects arms don't seem to be as strong as they used to be. Maybe they baby their arms. There are other things to do now. All we did was play baseball. None of that computer game stuff." ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 12:30:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] MYSTARA New Immortal (fwd) Note: I tried to use as much of Cthuludrew's format as possible: >Here is one of my immortals I've invented. Not too well fleshed-out, but >interesting(most of my others have a lot less info on them and some of >this I just made up-some is campaign history-and some is realtered history): > >-------------------------- >Immortal- Melo the Fierce >Sphere:Energy >Rank:Novice Temporal History: > > Melo was a human mage in life. Unfortunatley, many did not >consider him human. He was a midget at best(3'3" and 72 lbs). Often >insulted due to his lack of height, he took all as an insult. He decided >to strike back at those who picked on him in his youth and found a route >to do so through magic. He took up study, traveling from city to city so >that by the time he was getting older and more bitter(late 40s) he could >avenge insults immediately. > Realizing his quest for respect was futile, as some would >eternally look down on him, he settled in the Shires. Here he tried to >teach the halflings magic, encouraging them to rise up in the world. >One of the halflings, Shlumpy the Bold, decided the mage was right and >that short folk had taken enough abuse. Together the two went out >foolishly to draw the halflings together against the taller, >condescending folk. > Of course, many halflings did not feel this way and turned their >back on the two, who became fed up. They realized unity would not get >them anywhere, and so left the Shires to prove their might on their own. >They were joined by several humans who felt that they were indeed too >patronizing and who felt sorry for the mage's past treatment. One of the >humans, a thief named Roberta even fell in love with the mage. > Finding such kind humans, and even getting married to >one(Roberta) at age 54, changed the mage's outlook. He realized not all >humans were bad, but he still set out to prove himself at his age. He >gained in power over his years, and by the age of 60 was powerful indeed >and even had a daughter born to him. > But life is cruel. The group got lost, and found their way to >the Hollow World. Here where ressurection was impossible, death was >final. And three of those who were with him died there. The loss of his >lifelong ally, Shlumpy was bad, but the loss of his wife he could not >bear. He left the few remaining friends and went to live among the >Beastmen, another group hated for their looks. > Here he found the alliance he did not find in his younger age >with the halflings. His magic supported the tribe he joined, and his >unique features were special in this land of unqiue-looking beings. He >was accepted much more easily into Beastman society than if he had looked >"normal". He continued to raise his daughter, and even remarried, >becoming fully acceoted in the Beastman clan. > Still his life was lacking. He did not rest comfortably in his >old age. He knew his time was limited, and his mark was not made, even >with a wonderful child, almost grown up. He left his people once again, >but this time they were truly his people for the 1st time. He left into >the Arctic and was never heard from again. > > Interests: > Melo achieved immortality at the age of 83, nearly completely >wasted by years and his quest but spurred on by his will to remain >forever. He still watches over the Beastmen with whom he lived, and was >very surprised to find he had sired another daughter before he had left. >He especially watches over his two children, both key movers among the >Beastmen. He has even tried to go against the Spell of Preservation for >the sake of the Beastmen, by secretly strengthening the power of their >wikkas so that they could become more useful. > His main quest though is back where he spent some of his middle >years -- the shires. He has worked harder and harder every month to >bring magic into the hands of the halflings, whom he still thinks are >looked down on too much. He has made his presence known recently to some >halflings with magical promise, and he led them to Glantri where they >have just started study to the surprise of the mages there. The chance >that any of them will succeed are slim, but Melo feels that if one >succeeds and becomes a strong mage, the respect for halflings and short >folk everywhere will rise. Symbol: Melo doesn't believe much in the use of symbols, rather in the use of concepts. In such, he requires his followers no holy symbols or like images. Allies:Melo is arather new immortal and as such has few allies. Several old companions who do not hate him for his leaving them. (Note: if I get to it, I'll post them later) Otherwise Melo has no friends among the immortals-he has even broken with his sponsor already. Enemies:Also few. he is not powerful enough to earn the emnity of the main immortals. He does not seek alliances and does not seek to interfere with the plans of others-he just watches over the few who concern him and ignores all else. Personality: I think this has been covered in the earlier sections Follower's Alignment:Melo prefers his followers to be neutral, but doesn't care much either way. His followers are usually halflings and beastmen who practice magic, so a very limited group. He does not have any clerics among his followers, or thieves. He would accept paladins of his cause, but mages carry out his purposes better. Followers:As he has no clerical followers, he can't grant them any special powers. A halfling mage can only reach level 4, using elf experience and magic tables-none of his followers have yet reached that far even though Melo hopes to grant them more power eventually. A beastman wikka who follows Melo or follows his ideals even gets an extra 2 levels of magic ability possibl(old limit?). A beastman wikka/shaman gets the same bonus, too. Ex: if old limit was 2/4 for a w/s a follower of Melo gets 4/4. Other stats to come later,once I look them up.Assume basic Novice Temporal stuff for now. Opinions? ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 12:21:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara's planets (was: What size is Mystara) > > Hey, I'm not knocking the Hollow World as a concept, I just wish they'd > > made it a bit more consistent with previous info. Hell, if they'd stuck > > it in the interior od Damocles I wouldn't have objected at all. > > Damocles is after all going to go the way of the dodo, and the > > structural instability inherent in a sphere _of that size_ without > > cross-bracing girders would be a good way for the planet to blow up. > > Damocles... > Now that you mention it, what do you people thik of Mystaran cosmology? > The solar system was ,according to the Gold Box, very similar to earths, > though the inner planet was missing and there were to extra planets > one where the asteroid belt is in our syatem and one beyond the > equivalent of pluto.( Mr.Lund please correct me if any of this is wrong, > I do not have the gold box available at the moment.) > Do you, subscribers of this list use this info or what? That's right.. (if I wasn't suddenly more aware about copyright, I'd post the statistics. Hm, maybe if I converted them to Spelljammer first.. :) ) The one where the asteroid belt is called Damocles, and is home to an advanced civilization, but is going to blow up in the nearish future, forming an asteroid belt, and some pieces are going to fly off and become Mercury-analogue and the retrograde moons. The past-Pluto-analogue planet is Charon, and I believe it's just your average rockball. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 12:38:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Various On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Sir George Anonymous wrote: > RE: The fog and combust spells posted by Mischa E Gelman > > Are these designed to be D&D or AD&D spells? I would guess D&D because > AD&D already has similar spells. Perhaps you might want to compare yours > to the AD&D versions. (Not that there's anything wrong with what you > posted, just a suggestion.) DND- I don't have a recent PHB to check the differences with ADND versions Bob Friend: " Prospects arms don't seem to be as strong as they used to be. Maybe they baby their arms. There are other things to do now. All we did was play baseball. None of that computer game stuff." ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 12:39:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects > > > GAZ10: The Orcs of Thar: Kobolds, Goblins, Orcs, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, > > > Gnolls, Ogres, Trolls. (Plus rules for any other humanoid species.) > > What kind of rules? If they are this tall, then this or what? > > Note that this is for OD&D, and taken near-verbatim from > GAZ10. > > Set Racial Ability Modifiers as you will, from -4 to +3. > Ditto with Racial AC, the smaller the humanoid, the lower (eg. (cut) Is this legal recopying? Bob Friend: " Prospects arms don't seem to be as strong as they used to be. Maybe they baby their arms. There are other things to do now. All we did was play baseball. None of that computer game stuff." ------------------------------ From: Mistress Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:38:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Regarding FUDGE... >On Wed, 17 Jan 1996, Peter Froehlich wrote: >> >> The FUDGE rules arrived in Germany and I bought them today. After >> skimming through the book I felt I had to "voice my opinion" so here it is: >> >> Nice! Exteremely nice! :-) >> >> I hope to see supplements for FUDGE over here in Germany soon. Keep up the >> good work! >> >> By(T)e... >> Peter... >> > Uh, Peter, this is a group to discuss TSR's world, Mystara, not >Steffan O'Sullivan's free-form game, FUDGE. While a number of people >here other than you and me are interested in discussing FUDGE (You Know >Who You Are), this ain't the place for it. > Try fudge-L at southwind.net >Chris Davies. I'd like to think that we could _every now and then_ mention something partially related to the list or someone on it without people getting upset about it. I hate to sound ranty, but, Mr. Davis, chill. ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 14:45:44 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What size is Mystara > In fact, the entire 'return to greatness/Empire Reborn' storyline this > sets up makes a whole lot more sense to me than the nonsensical _fear_ or > knowledge that Ixion, god of _research_ displays in WoTI. Where'd you get this from? > Demons (fiends) > below, the only way to realize the potential of the Radiance and finding > a way to reverse the effects it ALREADY have had on the Mystaran magic is > MORE research - not medieval anti-science, retro-new-age backpedalling > like the impostor with Ixion's name is spouting in WotI. (Can you tell > I'm an engineer ?) Okay ... here's the thing though ... the Radiance is gradually draining the energy away from Mystara, yes? It will continue to do so as long as those idiot mortals from Glantri keep poking around in it, yes? The only way to slow down the drain is to stop those mortals long enough so that the Immortals can take a long, hard look at the Nexus. So Ixion (Reigning Heirarch of the Sphere of Energy) orders Rad to stop poking around so that more learned immortals can assess the situation. Rad tells Ixion "Relaxe ton sexe", and things go swiftly downward. (What new age stuff do you see in this? Seriously, I didn't get anything but a "You're screwing with stuff we don't understand yet" attitude from Ixion in WotI ... and maybe also "Don't you dare disobey me you little French so-and-so!") > I just find it a whole lot more interesting to run a 'Thyatis tries > reconquering the Known World' storyline than 'For no good reason, the > Immortals decide to ruin the world'. Ah ... but they do have good reason ... in their own eyes. Mortals may not agree, but then they are such limited creatures, aren't they ... > > So, I don't think Mystara is a megalith. (Anymore than I think > > the Immortals created all the species of life on it ...) If it is, I > > think that it was probably killed in the meteoric crash that led the > > Immortals to discover the Hollow World. (Now there's a bloody grim image > > for you ... all the races of Mystara are just vermin picking on a > > disintegrating corpse ...) > > > Umm, I think I said 'developed', not created - they took what was > there and improved upon it. But aside from that quibble.. ayup, that's a > sufficiently grim image :) Actually, that's just about the only way I can > think of to justify the existence of the Hollow World without recousing > to the Old Ones - whom I empathcally disbelieve interfering in their own > experiment in such a _blatant_ fashion. > Someone shoots the Megalith with an armour-piercing asteroid and blow > it's brains out through one polar hole- the other one being the entry > wound... and the crust that's left is the once-living remains of the > creature's real shell. Of course, that means that Mystara IS doomed. > Once the megalith is dead, the shield/shell WILL decompose and grow > structurally brittle... and eventually collapse. > This will probably kill all life there. Thing was, it was an accident. Your bullet analogy isn't quite the way it's described in the HW boxed set (IIRC) ... it's more like while strolling through a construction site, the Megalith is hit in the chest by something that does a lot of damage (hole in the pole). Immediately, a group of doctors come along and figure out a way for the Megalith to go on living with a hole in the stomach. Meanwhile, they also decide to study what goes on in the inside of the body cavity. (Note: Something akin to this actually happened ... a guy with a hole in his stomach going on living for a long while after the injury. He was one of the major sources of knowledge of how digestive acid works.) Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: jam@wimsey.com (Jenni A. ) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 14:08:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Some General Comments I'd just like to say a few things on a variety of topics to this list. Some of the things are fairly innocuous, others are mild criticisms... If anything seems like some kind of attack, please don't think so, since that's not the idea. It's just that a few things have caught my attention and I'd like to touch on them. Topic One: Replying To Messages I've noticed, as the number of messages through the list has increased, that more and more people are replying to messages in ways that are generally considered "Bad Netiquette". The bigest "faux pas" is that lots of people are leaving the quotes for an entire message and tacking on only one or two more lines of comment. When the original message is only two or three lines itself, this doesn't matter -- but when it contains more than fifteen lines, this is really a waste of mailbox filespace. Unless the point being made *really* relies on the entire context of the previous message, try to cut out superfluous stuff -- it does make things less of a chore to slog through. The next thing is that some people don't take the time to change the subject heading when the topic under discussion has shifted from whatever the original topic was. If the title of the message doesn't identify the actual topic under discussion, people who might have read the message won't and others who do might be disappointed. It is simple common sense to take care of this sort of thing. Topic Two: Legal Concerns I understand the general reason behind all these worries -- TSR has been known to step down hard in this area. Not to mention that a few of TSR's employee's are on the list, and they certainly don't want to get in any trouble. However, I must admit that I get the feeling that we are all getting a little paranoid. If I was talking to you on the phone and you had a question about some D&D rule and I went and found my Cyclopedia and read the corrosponding passage to you, that would be okay. That's what the rules were written for -- so players can all agree on how the game should be played. If we couldn't share the rules with one another, we couldn't ensure that we were all sitting with the same level of understanding before trying to communicate about some aspect of the game. Now, If I take that same, small passage, and quote it here, shouldn't that be okay as well? We are simply ensuring that all parties involved are at the same level of knowledge base. I might also add that people in acadamia do this sort of thing all the time -- remember all those essays you've had to write over the years and those gawd-awful footnotes and bibliographies....? If you're -=< REALLY >=- worried about it, make sure you credit your sources by Author, Title and Page Number. On the other hand, taking a WHOLE CHAPTER, and posting it to the list is probably not legal. But none of us are doing that at the moment. It could be debated that taking a collection of things scattered throughout the D&D sourcebooks, etc and posting them as one big "thing" (i.e. the timeline) *might* be against TSR's copyright, but, again, if all the sources are referenced, and the file is labeled as a compilation OF TSR'S WORK then I don't see why it wouldn't be seen as reasonable. And if TSR does complain, well, I guess we stop posting whatever it was they complained about... or take them to court. It all boils down to using your best judgement. If you *honestly* don't think that what you are doing will infringe on TSR's copyright, then go ahead and post it. And I do mean HONESTLY -- if YOU don't think its the right thing to do, even if you think its just a *little bit* wrong then DON'T DO IT! Fiddle with it until you don't think its wrong anymore, and THEN post it. And if someone else posts something that YOU don't think is proper, send them mail *PRIVATELY* explaining why, and if you can think of a way to fix it, tell them how. Don't drag the discussion across the list, but if both sides become convinced that it *was* wrong, THEN tell the list, including your reasons, so we know not to pass it around. And again, as I mentioned above, if TSR sees something and tells us that it doesn't want us posting it because it is a copyright infringment, we either stop posting it... or take them to court. Topic Three: The List In General Also, I wanted to say that I'm really enjoying most of the discussions that have been going through the list. Some very insightful topics have come up, and I think we've got a good thing going here. Its really nice to have such a large number of others to toss ideas and questions out to. Well, I guess that's it for now. - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield : ............ -=< strawberryJAMM >=- : Black Holes Are Merely jam@wimsey.com : Where God Divided By Zero http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/ : ............... ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 17:19:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects > > Note that this is for OD&D, and taken near-verbatim from > > GAZ10. > > > > Set Racial Ability Modifiers as you will, from -4 to +3. > > Ditto with Racial AC, the smaller the humanoid, the lower (eg. > (cut) > > Is this legal recopying? I'm not entirely sure; I posted this before I was aware that TSR hates people who make copies of their rules and such. If somebody happens to know exactly what TSR considers infringement and what isn't, I believe it'll be considered on-topic for this list.. :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 18:27:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some General Comments On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, Jenni A. wrote: > I'd just like to say a few things on a variety of topics to this list. > Some of the things are fairly innocuous, others are mild criticisms... > If anything seems like some kind of attack, please don't think so, since > that's not the idea. It's just that a few things have caught my attention > and I'd like to touch on them. I agree with the points mentioned here. I'd also like to humbly ask that when people want to respond to a large number of posts, with each response being short, that they perhaps make one longer post including them all. It's sort of daunting to get 15 posts by the same person where each one is a two-line response to a two-page quote. Otherwise, things are looking great. :) Glad to see this really happening. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ David "Azure" Leland ~~~ azure@cs.oberlin.edu ~~ ~~ Creative Writing, Cognitive Science ~~~ phone/fax: (216) 775-5582 ~~ ~~ Oberlin College ~~~ http://www.oberlin.edu/~dleland ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 21:31:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Thursday, 25-Jan-96 04:51 PM From: Andrea Stadtfeld \ Internet: (andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de) To: Post to Mystara-L \ Internet: (mystara-l@io.com) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion At 17:56 24.01.1996 -0500, you wrote: >If we're going to take a poll, I ignore WOTI, all AD&D versions, all >Almanacs; essentially everything after the Gazetteers. >Shelby And why is that so? Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de - -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- Well Andrea, I really enjoyed the Gazetteer series. My head swam with the possibilities for adventure and exploration that occured to me as I read them (I bought most of them all at once, when I decided that I would incorporate them into my campaign world). There is more that is detailed there than I could run for my players in many years of real time. Most of the descriptions really run concurrently from supplement to supplement. I was such a great fan, I was extremely disappointed at the prospect of destroying so much of that wondrous setting in one fell swoop, i.e. with the release of such an all-encompassing, world-warping supplement (subsequent supplements simply compounding the problem). Not only do I lose the opportunity to share all of the original series in play with my players, but I have the future of my campaign decided for me, without any input from either me or my players. Finally, if I choose to ignore all of these changes , I find that later supplements (quality aside; I find the older supplements superior anyway) are for the most part unusable if I do not choose to abide by the T$R future timeline. Do you see now? Shelby ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 00:08:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] 1000 AC vs 1014 AC (was: Shadow Elf Invasion) > I was such a great fan, I was extremely disappointed at the prospect of > destroying so much of that wondrous setting in one fell swoop, i.e. with the > release of such an all-encompassing, world-warping supplement (subsequent > supplements simply compounding the problem). Not only do I lose the > opportunity to share all of the original series in play with my players, but > I have the future of my campaign decided for me, without any input from > either me or my players. Finally, if I choose to ignore all of these changes > , I find that later supplements (quality aside; I find the older supplements > superior anyway) are for the most part unusable if I do not choose to abide > by the T$R future timeline. I might as well add my two cents here.. Dragonwars on Krynn. Avatar stuff on Toril. WotI on Mystara. Probably something on Oerth. Big changes, but still the same setting; you can run a campaign before, after, or during and of these. You can set your campaign at any time in Mystara, from 6000 BC to 6000 AC. You can take whatever ideas from the world you want, and build your own world from them. Or you can build your own world, and take some of the Gazeteer ideas. It's no harder to modify an Almanac than it is to create your own politico-economi-social ideas for a year or four. And last, but not least, my favorite platitude of this sort: "If you don't like it... then don't use it!" :) Anybody want to create a post 1000 AC timeline sans WotI? :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 11:29:18 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion At 16.15 26/01/96 +0100, you wrote: >On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Andrea Stadtfeld wrote: > >> At 11:49 24.01.1996 -0500, Robert Kaelin wrote: >> >I figure since I didn't get any answers on my questions about SE's and Kol, >> >but I did get plenty of e-mail responses like "Kol isn't a SE in our >> >world!!! It's just a cheap AD&D trick!!!" so I figure I made some type of >> >fauxpas. I, do however, think there some of the ideas in them are very >> >good, like the Kol/SE connection, and am dissapointed they seemed to be >> >swatted away by so many. >> >> The idea is not too bad, and it would explain Kol's unique position and >> intelligence. I just was astounded to hear about though I own the Glantri >> box. I just overlooked, what a mess.:) > >I agree, that the idea isnt too bad. Still I like the idea of the Kobolds >making their place in the world. And as the rise of the kobolds scenario >is happening in the Northern reaches as well... >I dont know...but why did the new almanac not support the idea of Kol >being a Shadowelf? > If you like the idea of the Kobolds making their place in the world, you should think of Kol as a real kobold, otherwise the Shadow Elf are making their place in the world. Kobolds are my preferred humanoids, so IMO Kol is a kobold. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #53 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #54 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Monday, 29 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 054 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 09:38:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] 1000 AC vs 1014 AC (was: Shadow Elf Invasion) - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Saturday, 27-Jan-96 12:08 AM From: Daniel Boese \ Internet: (dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca) Subject: Re: [Mystara] 1000 AC vs 1014 AC (was: Shadow Elf Invasion) > I was such a great fan, I was extremely disappointed at the prospect of > destroying so much of that wondrous setting in one fell swoop, i.e. with the > release of such an all-encompassing, world-warping supplement (subsequent > supplements simply compounding the problem). Not only do I lose the > opportunity to share all of the original series in play with my players, but > I have the future of my campaign decided for me, without any input from > either me or my players. Finally, if I choose to ignore all of these changes > , I find that later supplements (quality aside; I find the older supplements > superior anyway) are for the most part unusable if I do not choose to abide > by the T$R future timeline. I might as well add my two cents here.. Dragonwars on Krynn. Avatar stuff on Toril. WotI on Mystara. Probably something on Oerth. Big changes, but still the same setting; you can run a campaign before, after, or during and of these. You can set your campaign at any time in Mystara, from 6000 BC to 6000 AC. You can take whatever ideas from the world you want, and build your own world from them. Or you can build your own world, and take some of the Gazeteer ideas. It's no harder to modify an Almanac than it is to create your own politico-economi-social ideas for a year or four. And last, but not least, my favorite platitude of this sort: "If you don't like it... then don't use it!" :) Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca - -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- Daniel, Andrea asked _why_ I didn't use supplements dated after 1000 AC. I had no trouble figuring out for myself that "If you don't like it...then don't use it!" OK? I'm pretty clever that way. :) Secondly, I see two reasons for purchasing campaign products: a) to save TIME, and b) to acquire ideas you might not have thought of independently. I trust you can see the rather steep loss of utility in a product written under a changed premise. I'll say it again, I don't like world-changing products; perhaps if you re- read your post you'll see that you have summed up what some people feel to be an alarming trend in published campaigns. I have nothing to do with _any_ of those "after the change" products. If I liked the initial setting, odds are I want to play out ALL of the possibilities there before considering changing. See, if I bought it, I liked it _the_way_it_was_. That's what I bought. That's what sold me. A company will lose my business if subsequent products lose their utility to me because I have to spend more time in conversion back to the original product the company sold me a few years previously. Again, these are my opinions, that's all. I'm normally pretty quiet unless I'm addressed. :) Shelby ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 11:55:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] 1000 AC vs 1014 AC (was: Shadow Elf Invasion) > Andrea asked _why_ I didn't use supplements dated after 1000 AC. I had no > trouble figuring out for myself that "If you don't like it...then don't use > it!" OK? I'm pretty clever that way. :) Sorry. Most people I meet seem a touch surprised when I point this out.. A personal pet peeve, I suppose. :) > Secondly, I see two reasons for purchasing campaign products: a) to save > TIME, and b) to acquire ideas you might not have thought of independently. I > trust you can see the rather steep loss of utility in a product written > under a changed premise. Yes, I can. For example, the Alfheim/Aengmor (to bring this topic back to Mystara-specific material :) ) thing would be hard to reconcile if you try to use the Almanacs. There's still a lot of useful material, though. > I'll say it again, I don't like world-changing products; perhaps if you re- > read your post you'll see that you have summed up what some people feel to > be an alarming trend in published campaigns. I have nothing to do with _any_ > of those "after the change" products. If I liked the initial setting, odds > are I want to play out ALL of the possibilities there before considering > changing. See, if I bought it, I liked it _the_way_it_was_. That's what I > bought. That's what sold me. A company will lose my business if subsequent > products lose their utility to me because I have to spend more time in > conversion back to the original product the company sold me a few years > previously. I understand you perfectly. Just remember, T$R is dedicated to making money, and one of the ways to do that is to keep putting out stuff for each setting.. which isn't all that interesting if it just repeats what went before. Personally, I prefer the fact that they actually published more info for Mystara, rather than just let it drop along with Basic D&D. Just curious.. how much change do you have in your campaign? If you glance at the (hopefully-non-copyright-violating) Timeline, there's a lot of change even in only 10 or 20 years. I try to keep the feeling of "there's a Whole World out there" when I run my own campaigns. P.S.: Has anybody out there run a campaign not based in the 1000-1014 era? Say, 500 ACish in the Highlands, or 1000 BC in Nithia? :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 17:17:10 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Hey we changed your Campaign! (was 1000 AC vs 1014 AC) - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Saturday, 27-Jan-96 11:55 AM From: Daniel Boese \ Internet: (dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca) I understand you perfectly. Just remember, T$R is dedicated to making money, and one of the ways to do that is to keep putting out stuff for each setting.. which isn't all that interesting if it just repeats what went before. Personally, I prefer the fact that they actually published more info for Mystara, rather than just let it drop along with Basic D&D. Just curious.. how much change do you have in your campaign? If you glance at the (hopefully-non-copyright-violating) Timeline, there's a lot of change even in only 10 or 20 years. I try to keep the feeling of "there's a Whole World out there" when I run my own campaigns. - -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- Hello Daniel, A peeve of mine is that there should be a near-endless number of adventure modules, castles, lairs, cities, NPC's, rule supplements, fiction, spells and items, and so forth, that could be marketed for a campaign world that would generate money for the company and not piss off people who felt as I do; in other words, there are other ways for a company to make money than the currently-popular "Hey the whole thing has changed" trend. It doesn't have to "repeat what went before." There are how many billions of people in the world today, each of them has a whole world of experiences within a five - -year span; you couldn't write it all down and sell it all in an entire *lifetime*! I remember in the late seventies/early eighties, there certainly were enough products coming out, we were always excited over them, and no one said "hey they're just repeating the same thing." No one felt cheated if they bought the World of Greyhawk, because it was set in the same timeframe as last year's print run; in fact, they were _counting_ on getting what they had read about/played in/looked at in someone else's copy. I'm just amazed that people put up with this "OK you only had the thing for two years, but as of today there will be no more support for that world because we want you to buy *t*h*i*s*! And it really _is_ a new world. So no, I don't care that Red Steel/Savage Coast continues the Mystara product line; it's not my campaign world any more (and I suspect it's not the campaign world of the majority of the "listers," judging by their reaction to those products). The wisest marketing move, IMHO, would be to make everyone happy, not alienate the satisfied customer. As for how much change occurs in my campaign, as I've mentioned in my earliest posts, my campaign involves some time-travel. In spite of the fact that I've run my campaign continuously since 1980 (incorporating the Known World setting about the time Gaz 4 was released), events that 'rock the world' are not too common. For instance, of the original PC's who started in 1980, a few survive to this day. Other characters entered the spotlight, some players came and went, PC levels varied enough to require re-sorting parties, and the spotlight shifts from place to place, often going back to pick up with a previous group. While there have been time-hops that have accounted for an extra 24 years, if we ignore that then actual elapsed game time might be six years or so. In sixteen real years of gaming. One group foils a revolution. Another group hears about the revolution, it has some limited impact on their lives, but happened 150 miles away, and two years ago in real time. A country gains independence; some PC's participated, it takes three years. Now go back in time two years, use different PC's that aren't too far away, and see what happens. Maybe they'll get to the finale at the last minute, and change what everyone thought would happen. Perhaps alliances are made between kingdoms. There is "a whole world out there," but it just doesn't normally impact PC's. Adventurers live their lives, that's where the adventure is. If _they_ change the world, that's different. When they eventually get to Alphatia, it will be the Alphatia of Dawn of the Emperors. It will remain essentially familiar to them until _they_ change it , or let it change by choosing not to intervene. I love the Glantri of Gaz 3 ; damned if it's going to change until such change is a reward for player actions! Etienne stays! I read a post today in usenet.dnd, on the topic of gaining levels vs real years of game time. I would speculate that, on average my players have perhaps two or three PC's between 9th and 12th level, and four or five of 4th to 9th level. And a few dead ones. In sixteen years of gaming in the same campaign. (Granted, including some time off for a change of pace with other game systems.) I can't relate to the thought that major changes must occur in the world for the participants' interest to be maintained. How much changed between 1970 and 1980 in our world? I can live with that. But remember, our century has seen more change than any previous one in history. As for my players? Listen to this. I like the occasional change of pace; thus the time-travel element. They're agreeable to my inclinations, and cooperate. But guess what? Again and again, unsolicited, they actually _beg_ to adventure again in their familiar stomping grounds, in and near the City State of the Invincible Overlord, known as Ryan, in the same time-period, millenia before the Known World Gazetteer setting. Change? Hah! Quality gaming doesn't need an MTV-paced world! It needs an entertaining DM and good role-players! Shelby ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 18:47:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MYSTARA New Immortal (fwd) Sorry for the long repost-just adding stats on to make this a rough final copy-all suggestions still appreciated > Note: I tried to use as much of Cthuludrew's format as possible: > >Here is one of my immortals I've invented. Not too well fleshed-out, but > >interesting(most of my others have a lot less info on them and some of > >this I just made up-some is campaign history-and some is realtered history): > > > >-------------------------- > >Immortal- Melo the Fierce > >Sphere:Energy > >Rank:Novice Temporal > History: > > > > Melo was a human mage in life. Unfortunatley, many did not > >consider him human. He was a midget at best(3'3" and 72 lbs). Often > >insulted due to his lack of height, he took all as an insult. He decided > >to strike back at those who picked on him in his youth and found a route > >to do so through magic. He took up study, traveling from city to city so > >that by the time he was getting older and more bitter(late 40s) he could > >avenge insults immediately. > > Realizing his quest for respect was futile, as some would > >eternally look down on him, he settled in the Shires. Here he tried to > >teach the halflings magic, encouraging them to rise up in the world. > >One of the halflings, Shlumpy the Bold, decided the mage was right and > >that short folk had taken enough abuse. Together the two went out > >foolishly to draw the halflings together against the taller, > >condescending folk. > > Of course, many halflings did not feel this way and turned their > >back on the two, who became fed up. They realized unity would not get > >them anywhere, and so left the Shires to prove their might on their own. > >They were joined by several humans who felt that they were indeed too > >patronizing and who felt sorry for the mage's past treatment. One of the > >humans, a thief named Roberta even fell in love with the mage. > > Finding such kind humans, and even getting married to > >one(Roberta) at age 54, changed the mage's outlook. He realized not all > >humans were bad, but he still set out to prove himself at his age. He > >gained in power over his years, and by the age of 60 was powerful indeed > >and even had a daughter born to him. > > But life is cruel. The group got lost, and found their way to > >the Hollow World. Here where ressurection was impossible, death was > >final. And three of those who were with him died there. The loss of his > >lifelong ally, Shlumpy was bad, but the loss of his wife he could not > >bear. He left the few remaining friends and went to live among the > >Beastmen, another group hated for their looks. > > Here he found the alliance he did not find in his younger age > >with the halflings. His magic supported the tribe he joined, and his > >unique features were special in this land of unqiue-looking beings. He > >was accepted much more easily into Beastman society than if he had looked > >"normal". He continued to raise his daughter, and even remarried, > >becoming fully acceoted in the Beastman clan. > > Still his life was lacking. He did not rest comfortably in his > >old age. He knew his time was limited, and his mark was not made, even > >with a wonderful child, almost grown up. He left his people once again, > >but this time they were truly his people for the 1st time. He left into > >the Arctic and was never heard from again. > > > > > Interests: > > Melo achieved immortality at the age of 83, nearly completely > >wasted by years and his quest but spurred on by his will to remain > >forever. He still watches over the Beastmen with whom he lived, and was > >very surprised to find he had sired another daughter before he had left. > >He especially watches over his two children, both key movers among the > >Beastmen. He has even tried to go against the Spell of Preservation for > >the sake of the Beastmen, by secretly strengthening the power of their > >wikkas so that they could become more useful. > > His main quest though is back where he spent some of his middle > >years -- the shires. He has worked harder and harder every month to > >bring magic into the hands of the halflings, whom he still thinks are > >looked down on too much. He has made his presence known recently to some > >halflings with magical promise, and he led them to Glantri where they > >have just started study to the surprise of the mages there. The chance > >that any of them will succeed are slim, but Melo feels that if one > >succeeds and becomes a strong mage, the respect for halflings and short > >folk everywhere will rise. > Symbol: Melo doesn't believe much in the use of symbols, rather in the > use of concepts. In such, he requires his followers no holy symbols or > like images. > Allies:Melo is arather new immortal and as such has few allies. Several > old companions who do not hate him for his leaving them. (Note: if I get > to it, I'll post them later) Otherwise Melo has no friends among the > immortals-he has even broken with his sponsor already. > Enemies:Also few. he is not powerful enough to earn the emnity of the > main immortals. He does not seek alliances and does not seek to > interfere with the plans of others-he just watches over the few who > concern him and ignores all else. > Personality: I think this has been covered in the earlier sections > Follower's Alignment:Melo prefers his followers to be neutral, but > doesn't care much either way. His followers are usually halflings and > beastmen who practice magic, so a very limited group. He does not have > any clerics among his followers, or thieves. He would accept paladins of > his cause, but mages carry out his purposes better. > Followers:As he has no clerical followers, he can't grant them any > special powers. A halfling mage can only reach level 4, using elf > experience and magic tables(till level 4 of course)-none of his followers >have yet reached that > far even though Melo hopes to grant them more power eventually. A > beastman wikka who follows Melo or follows his ideals even gets an extra > 2 levels of magic ability possibl(old limit?). A beastman wikka/shaman > gets the same bonus, too. Ex: if old limit was 2/4 for a w/s a follower > of Melo gets 4/4. Mortal stats- STR 7 INT 15 WIS 11 DEX 9 CON 4 CHR 6 Ht 3'3" Wt 72# Weapons:Grand Master w/ Dagger+5,deceiving Alignment:Neutral Armor:Displacer Cloak,RoP+4,RoP+4,Amulet of Protection+3,Necklace of +1 Protection- AC -10 Magic-user of level36 Immortals stats- Novice Temporal of Energy STR 11 INT 18 WIS 13 DEX 14 CON 11 CHR 12 Aura-affects 1-no penalty to save Power Points-500 THAC0 5 w/ punch of damage 0 Movement:Universal,Interplanar,Interdimensional as normal immortal Walk 150' Run 300' Gaseous Form 720' Fly 360' Ht 2'3"(modified to halfling appearance) Wt 50# Home Planbe:not yet developed-probably won't be anytime soon ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sun, 28 Jan 96 10:02:05 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Participation in the Campaigns of List-ers - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Saturday, 27-Jan-96 07:20 PM From: Daniel Boese \ Internet: (dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca) To: Shelby Michlin \ Internet: (shelby7@ix.netcom.com) I don't suppose you'd be interested in a new player for any PBeMs you might be running? It sounds wonderful! 16 years and still running.. I think you're setting a record. :) Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca - -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- Sir, you are a gentleman of the finest calibre! I've never been involved in role-playing by mail; if there were to be a change, I would be certain to post here. Perhaps if I find myself in your vicinity some day, (or vice versa) we can arrange a session! I'm in New Jersey. I wonder, would it be of interest to post our physical addresses if we'd be willing to have the occasional "guest" from the list? Someone would have to compile it for email upon request, and list-ers would need to be conscientious about updates...but don't we have an archive somewhere? I believe we do. As for my campaign, we've been lucky in the quality of all of the participants. Also, although we've all got families and careers, here we are in our thirties/forties and we can't imagine not having our weekly game. Shelby ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Sun, 28 Jan 96 18:11:01 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Kol > What would Kol do if he discovered his true race? Kol needs a magic using > heir to inherit his principality after his death, something his kobold > wives have been unable to provide. I'm not among those who think that Kol is a Shadowelf, however let's suppose for a moment he's one of the deformed SE babies. Obviously he suffered some genetic mutation and maybe this made him unable to generate heirs. The problem is Kol himself, not the kobold wives. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:44:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Projects On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, Daniel Boese wrote: > > > Note that this is for OD&D, and taken near-verbatim from > > > GAZ10. This is most of the problem right here. Near verbatim, and especially verbatim copying isn't a good idea. Paraphrasing is just fine though. You might not have trouble copying directly at all depending on what kind of media this is considered. TSR has determined non-permanent media to be exempt from their policies. So far this includes word of mouth, any form of exchange in a gaming group, PBEM's, and Usenet. Personally I think aall E-mail should be included in that category but I don't remember the official stand on it. We could always declare this a huge PBEM, then we're all members of a gaming group and we can do whatever we want. > I'm not entirely sure; I posted this before I was aware that TSR hates > people who make copies of their rules and such. > > If somebody happens to know exactly what TSR considers infringement and > what isn't, I believe it'll be considered on-topic for this list.. hint> :) > This is what makes everyone so angry. They won't tell anyone what exactly counts as infringement. They do have good reason for not saying, but nobody really likes it much. Basically, TSR lawyer won't sit down and write up an official policy so none of the net reps can even come close to saying "this is infringement" or "this is OK" even on specific items. As soon as they give a statement someone could use it in court aginst them and make it legally binding. e.g. Any direct copying of text, or pictures is infringement. So someone copies the tables and posts them. They could force TSR to give us the right to copy any table since it wasn't specifically listed as an infringement in their policy. I suggested making list of what is OK, instead of the reverse several times, but I was ignored, probably because TSR can have better control with no policy at all. As always, I am not a lawyer, and its been a few months since I've discussed policies with TSR, so I might be slightly behind. |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:37:18 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mystara] Re: Gazetteers > Heldann has always been seen (in my mind at least) like Finland > in its climate (and Warhammer FRPG in feel). Norwold is quite > similar to Northeastern Canada, from Landfall (like the maritimes- > intense and dramatic shifts in environment between summer and winter) > to the tundra plains (cold desert, like above the Canadian Shield) - > arctic conditions. > > As for who would live there, well forest and mountain barbarians > (who migrate according to the seasons), dwarves (who live in the > IceReach mountains), Foresthome elves and Leehan hin (who use clan > relics to lessen the cold), Frost Giants (of course), Dragons (who > like being left alone), etc. clan relics to lessen the cold huh?..sounds great.. Does anyone have any more info on those? Also, anyone wants to submit sth on the nations mentioned above? I'll mail some of Wendar if there's any interest for it, but i'll have to do some research first. Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:47:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Your Whining Admin... What can I say? A while back I apologized to the list for falling behind on my list duties, and here I am doing it again. As I said before I have been ejected from school, and have been forced to enter the real world. All this job finding/car buying/home seeking stuff can take up a lot of time (and money). So, here are a few words on various subjects... Copyright Stuff To put it simply, no blatant copyright infingement will be tolerated here on the MML. This means no reprints of articles, or similar such examples. If anyone has a question of what is allowed, feel free to ask me. This saves a lot of time and hassle. Getting Off Subject As outlined in the FAQ, it is not a capitol crime to stray off the subject a bit here on the MML, such as telling Ann Dupuis how much you liked FUDGE. So, please do not admonish other list members. If you feel it is not being handled quickly enough, feel free to bring it to my attention. List Monitoring In additon to being a busy guy as of late, I also recieve upwards of 300+ pieces of mail daily ( I am on 13 or so mailing lists). Because of this I usually only skim most postings to MML. If you have something you wish the Admin to see directly, please send it to me rather than tack it onto a list posting. The Index and "Ordering" As the FAQ says, I keep track of all new stuff posted to the list, saving a copy and keeping an index of it all. But becasue of a lack of time I have been unable to keep the index recent (although I still keep copies of stuff). What I would like is a volunteer who would be willing to take over this job, keeping copies of new stuff, updating the index and sending stuff to people who request it. This system bites, but it saves us from having to worry about TSR legal hounds. So, if anyone wishes to take up the mantle, let me know. A better solution would be for someone with copies of all the digests to index those and send them out on request (Sir George? You out there?) All in all, I have been quite happy with the way the list has been going. Although I would like to see more group projects, I can hardly complain. Thanks for you time (and patience). Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:01:00 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Your Whining Admin... On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > Getting Off Subject > As outlined in the FAQ, it is not a capitol crime to stray off the > subject a bit here on the MML, such as telling Ann Dupuis how much you liked > FUDGE. So, please do not admonish other list members. If you feel it is not > being handled quickly enough, feel free to bring it to my attention. > Okay, clearly I was in the wrong. I apologise to Peter Froelich for being so vehement, as well as to anyone else who took offense. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:23:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Your Whining Admin... On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, Chris Davies wrote: > On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > > > Getting Off Subject > > As outlined in the FAQ, it is not a capitol crime to stray off the > > subject a bit here on the MML, such as telling Ann Dupuis how much you liked > > FUDGE. So, please do not admonish other list members. If you feel it is not > > being handled quickly enough, feel free to bring it to my attention. > > > > Okay, clearly I was in the wrong. > I apologise to Peter Froelich for being so vehement, as well as > to anyone else who took offense. Just wanted to say that I wasn't trying to "make an example" of anyone; I was just using the only such incident I have seen so far in an attempt to keep things calm. If this is the worst problem this list sees we'll be in good shape. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #54 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #55 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, 30 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 055 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herve MUSSEAU Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 10:09:13 MET Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion > > >I dont know...but why did the new almanac not support the idea of Kol > >being a Shadowelf? > > Because I don't believe he, or just about anyone else, knows. Nor may > anyone ever find out. > > It's possible someone may come forward who was present at the time, or that > someone may find out, but why would they come speak out? IMC the more > powerful of the Princes suspect it (They just don't hand over a > principality, even in the wartime, without knowing A LOT about the > candidate.), but they don't really care. Kol isn't powerful enough to > discover it through magic alone at present but maybe one day... > > I do think it could be an interesting plot though. The main reason the > Princes gave Kol a principality, aside from Synn's suggestions, was to help > keep the humanoids under control in the Great Crater. What happens if the > very leader of those people turns out to be someone the humanoids might > revolt against? Maybe a little kobold civil war in the Great Crater? With > Kol, whose magical powers will increase the longer he's a Prince, leading a > faction of humanoids into a more civilized, structured society. I don't > agree with the people who think of Kol as AD&D's way of saying humanoids > can't ever win, I think he'll lead them well. > > The Glantri Boxed set does say Kol desperately wants a magical heir to > succeed his Principality when he dies however. If he finds out his true > race, I have to imagine he'll try to find a shadow elf wife to have a > child, maybe the humaoids of Glantri could be led by shadow elves for > generations and never know it. If Kol is a Shadow Elf, he's not in the hurry about having an heir (he will be able to rule his people for centuries..). By saying he gains his long life span thanks to magical longevity potions or spells, he could even continue to keep the fact secret from the humanoids and the world :) > > By the way, has anyone done anything interesting with the Great Crater? I > really wanted to see some supplement come out detailing it, which I think > the WotI calls "the largest dungeon in the known world." > > -Bob > > > - -- Herve Musseau musseauh@esiee.fr ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:12:01 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Gazetteers > clan relics to lessen the cold huh?..sounds great.. Just a guess because I didn't have anything with me at the time. I think it's a combination of this and the fact that they live in this hollow at the end of the bay. > Also, anyone wants to submit sth on the nations mentioned above? > I'll mail some of Wendar if there's any interest for it, but i'll have to > do some research first. I got tired of the lack of info on Wendar (particularly because one of my players became the new Shadow Lord and was very much into wandering around his new neighbourhood), so I did what every resourceful DM/Storyteller since 1974 has ever done - I stole lock, stock and barrel from one of my favourite books and did a cut and paste job. The result? For those who want a good look at my Wendar (and a few of my other NPC kingdoms in Norwold) try Elizabeth Moon's _Deed of Paksenarrion_ (Norwold = Tsaia, Wendar = Lyrona, etc.). The old king died off shortly after the Elvenstar was recovered (before it was stolen again), and a certain soldier-turned-paladin is looking in Norwold for the lost king (who is currently with the PCs on Frosthaven trying to deal with a demonic glacier that threatens to crush Brun). HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 15:40:39 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Kol At 10.09 29/01/96 MET, you wrote: >If Kol is a Shadow Elf, he's not in the hurry about having an heir (he will >be able to rule his people for centuries..). By saying he gains his long life >span thanks to magical longevity potions or spells, he could even continue to >keep the fact secret from the humanoids and the world :) > If Kol is one of the deformed Shadow Elves babies he has a shortened lifespan, similar to the one of humanoids. See my other post about Kol having an heir. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:05:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Copyright Stuff (was: Your Whining Admin...) > To put it simply, no blatant copyright infingement will be tolerated here > on the MML. This means no reprints of articles, or similar such examples. > If anyone has a question of what is allowed, feel free to ask me. This saves > a lot of time and hassle. Does anybody have the email address of the person(s) at TSR who is willing to discuss what is and isn't a violation? My main concern currently is the Timeline I posted (and am still adding to (and am accepting factoids for :) ) ), but I'd also like to know what they think about quoting parts of Dragon, modules, Gazzes, the Cyclopedia, and such. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: jam@wimsey.com (strawberryJAMM) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 11:25 PST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hey we changed your Campaign! > [... super-duper SNIP ..] > >millenia before the Known World Gazetteer setting. Change? Hah! Quality >gaming doesn't need an MTV-paced world! It needs an entertaining DM and good >role-players! Hear, hear, I say -- HEAR, HEAR! {{Standing round of applause, for a well thought out and well argued point!}} Shelby makes a very good point -- world shattering change isn't needed to make a Gaming World interesting. On the other hand, world shattering change can definitly make a gaming world interesting. I think that where TSR went wrong was to propose their earth shattering changes without also writing modules and other supplements for the original era, without the changes. Considering how many MILLIONS of people must inhabit Mystara, and how many of them could be Player Characters, it is conceivable that a gaming group could spend years and years of real time going over and over the same game time period but in different locations and/or on different 'sides'. There is so much more room to play with than any one group of PC's could do -- it would be nice if TSR had decided to offer their customers that many options to choose from. There's also nothing wrong with having BOTH types of supplements -- for one thing, some people *like* world wide change while others don't. TSR could have easily kept both sides more or less happy. Also, there's nothing saying you can't take all the complex political whatnot that TSR has provided and then shift it in time by another, oh ten, twenty years. Or only using that part which makes sense to you. Of course, then you have to do a lot of your own work and calcluations about things, but DM's have been doing THAT for years. Just my $0.02 worth... - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- - -- strawberry JAMM -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield jam@wimsey.com -- http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/jamjar.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Black Holes Are Merely Where God Divided By Zero" -- unknown ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 23:39:20 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Kol > What would Kol do if he discovered his true race? Kol needs a magic using > heir to inherit his principality after his death, something his kobold > wives have been unable to provide. I'm not among those who think that Kol is a Shadowelf, however let's suppose for a moment he's one of the deformed SE babies. Obviously he suffered some genetic mutation and maybe this made him unable to generate heirs. The problem is Kol himself, not the kobold wives. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:52:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Copyright Stuff (was: Your Whining Admin...) On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Daniel Boese wrote: > > To put it simply, no blatant copyright infingement will be tolerated here > > on the MML. This means no reprints of articles, or similar such examples. > > If anyone has a question of what is allowed, feel free to ask me. This saves > > a lot of time and hassle. > > Does anybody have the email address of the person(s) at TSR who is > willing to discuss what is and isn't a violation? My main concern > currently is the Timeline I posted (and am still adding to (and am > accepting factoids for :) ) ), but I'd also like to know what > they think about quoting parts of Dragon, modules, Gazzes, the > Cyclopedia, and such. > > -- > Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca > I believe the proper address is TSRInc@aol.com, but if you want to make sure (they have more than one address) check out the alt.games.frp.dnd FAQ. Copyright violations include any _direct_ copying. The timeline isn't a violation (unless you copied it _exactly_ from TSR's sources). Quoting parts of Dragon, Gazeteers, modules, etc. is technically a copyright violation, but this might come under TSR's definition of fair use. Once I get my news reader set up I'll ask one of the netreps if quoting small passages on mailing lists is OK. I don't expect people to copy whole modules, but quoting some passages shouldn't be a problem. Until we ask though I'd either paraphrase (if possible) or keep quotes as small as possible. |] |] |]ruce | ierpont ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 04:15:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Fri, 12 Jan 1996, Chris Davies wrote: > > That's also why I sincerely doubt the Master is a) a folllower of Loki > > - he's not really interested in conquest, > > Who's not interested in conquest? The Master? or Loki? Well, neither really - but the Loki I'm using (I'm norwegian) bears more resemblance to the actual Loki of norse faith than the pathetic TSR imitation. Loki was a mean bastard - but so was everyone else. Odin was ever his master in treachery and betrayal. In fact Odin himself is a half-jotun bastard... Anyway - the master doesn't seem too interested in conquering Darokin, otherwise he'd launch the attack simultaneusly in the Darokinian harbour and Akesoli - not just attack Akesoli. The way the module is set up, the Master actively disregards opportunities for flanking movements, preferring to spend the lives of his followers in all-out attacks. If he really was a follower of Loki he'd trick Darokin into giving him the republic - he wouldn't try to steamroll it flat and eradicate the powerful. Loki would have you working his side so fast your head'd spin ;) So, given that the Master has the Soul Gem of Thanatos and seem more interested in killing things and mass destruction than in Loki's deceit - I conclude that the Master is (or was, until he lost to the PC's IMC for the third time. Last chances, and all that.) a follower of Thanatos. ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 04:34:44 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hollow Worlds and asteroids. On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, Chris Davies wrote: > Okay ... here's the thing though ... the Radiance is gradually > draining the energy away from Mystara, yes? It will continue to do so as > long as those idiot mortals from Glantri keep poking around in it, yes? > The only way to slow down the drain is to stop those mortals long enough > so that the Immortals can take a long, hard look at the Nexus. So Ixion > (Reigning Heirarch of the Sphere of Energy) orders Rad to stop poking > around so that more learned immortals can assess the situation. Far as I could see, Ixion was ordering Rad to 'stop messing with that dangerous thing that's draining MY power, and stop anyone else from doing it either. That thing wasn't meant for us to use or understand in the first place, so I will use my position to stop and supress any later research too." How else will you explain how surprised and hurt he was when Rafiel refused to stop investigating the Radiance ? > Rad tells Ixion "Relaxe ton sexe", and things go swiftly > downward. (What new age stuff do you see in this? Seriously, I didn't > get anything but a "You're screwing with stuff we don't understand yet" > attitude from Ixion in WotI ... and maybe also "Don't you dare disobey me > you little French so-and-so!") > Well, I'm referring to the anti-intellectual, anti-science stance of most new-agers that I've been in contact with. Ixion's whole stance is one of 'this is bad, because I feel it's something we shouldn't know about.' Perhaps I'm a little gun-shy, but he acts a lot like some people I've met who object to anyone knowing anything about areas of science they do not like. > Ah ... but they do have good reason ... in their own eyes. > Mortals may not agree, but then they are such limited creatures, aren't > they ... Yup, there you're right ;) - besides, even my Empire Reborn plan is the result of Immortal meddling. And when I tell you that it's the Hattians that are the driving force behind this new wave of conquest... you can guess which Immortal, right ? > > Someone shoots the Megalith with an armour-piercing asteroid and blow > > it's brains out through one polar hole- the other one being the entry > > wound... and the crust that's left is the once-living remains of the > > creature's real shell. Of course, that means that Mystara IS doomed. > > Once the megalith is dead, the shield/shell WILL decompose and grow > > structurally brittle... and eventually collapse. > > This will probably kill all life there. > > Thing was, it was an accident. Your bullet analogy isn't quite > the way it's described in the HW boxed set (IIRC) ... it's more like > while strolling through a construction site, the Megalith is hit in the > chest by something that does a lot of damage (hole in the pole). In your campaign - I don't use the Hollow World, rememeber ? Thing is, IMC, if I was going to use it that's how I would play it out - and the PC's discover that the Hollow World and Mystaran civilization and the increasing frenzy of civilizations, dangers, and adventures is a last-ditch effort by the Immortals to salvage something from the dead planet before it collapses and kill all the myriad lifeforms that make their home on Mystara. Of course, they might also find out that someone or something is responisble for sending an armor-piercing asteroid at a significant fraction of C at the megalith, killing it. Happy, happy, joy, joy - Thanatos finally found a way to destroy all life on Mystara - eventually... ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:02:01 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Kol On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > I'm not among those who think that Kol is a Shadowelf, however let's suppose > for a moment he's one of the deformed SE babies. Obviously he suffered some > genetic mutation and maybe this made him unable to generate heirs. The > problem is Kol himself, not the kobold wives. Even if he is a mutant elf, this doesnt have too make him unable to generate heirs. The humanoids have prooved able to breed with anything... So, an SE-kobold, might one say see daylight. assuming that Kol is a SE ofcourse. Personally i like the Kobolds (Koboldi people?). Especially after reading The Nothern Reaches. There it was hinted that Kobolds might be one of the Major races, like dwarves, elves, hin and humans. perhaps it is time for them to get their own clan relic. Shining One: here's a mission for you.. Could the Kobolds be related to lupin? note: in respect of the little people; halflings are called Hin. Havard Faanes. ------------------------------ From: Wildmule@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:16:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Copyright violations Once again, the "Copyrights and Electronic Media" beast has raised its ugly head! In the "TSR Dropping Mystara...not!" thread, the question was raised, would posting copies of the old Princess Ark articles to this list be a copyright violation? The short (and correct) answer is: yes. A few people have posted disagreements to this. Not to pick on Fabrizio ;-), but his comment sums up a common misconception quite nicely: >I don't think emailing it privately on request is a copyright >violation. > >************** >Fabrizio Paoli Yes, it is a copyright violation. Public or private doesn't matter in the eyes of the law. Nor does intent to profit (or lack thereof.) *Only* the copyright holder has the right to make copies -- or grant that right to others -- regardless of the purpose of the copies. This means photocopying even a page of an adventure or rule book to give to your group is a copyright violation, unless that page (a character sheet, for instance) specifically states "may be photocopied...". The only exceptions are "fair use" exceptions, which are fairly well defined legally (although still open to interpretation) and don't exempt nearly as much as most people assume they do. The difference is this: although it's still *illegal* to make any copy of copyrighted material for any reason, the chances of anyone bothering to prosecute are very, very low when the violation involves private communication (among gaming groups, or in private e-mail). The chances of objections from the copyright holder are much, much higher when the violation involves public communication or something with high visibility (like a Usenet newsgroup, or even this mailing list). Anyone who disagrees with me should take this discussion to private e-mail -- I'd really rather not see the Mystara list consumed by the copyright debate. ;-) Best regards, Ann Dupuis Author, editor, publisher. Grey Ghost Press, Inc. ghostgames@aol.com http://members.aol.com/ghostgames/ fudgerpg@aol.com wildmule@aol.com (This is my "mystara" account. Any messages concerning Mystara should be sent here. Messages concerning FUDGE and Grey Ghost Games should be sent to ghostgames@aol.com) ------------------------------ From: Wildmule@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:16:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystaran web pages Fabrizio asked: >>Do you think we can put on a web page things such as the Timeline of Events posted here some weeks ago or (as I feel) is a copyright violation ? And what would happen to me if I do that ? Will TSR find my page in Italy and shut it down ?<< TSR is working on setting up web pages for Mystara (as well as all their other game worlds). This web page will allow uploading of fan material (i.e., half of what shows up on this list -- and probably an archive of this list as well, if someone wants to make it available to them!) and will be the best route for anyone wanting to make their Mystara material available legally and with TSR's blessings. You can always add a link to the "official" Mystara page from your own page in Italy. For more information, contact Sean Reynolds at tsrinc@aol.com. He's their official net rep, and is doing all the coordinating of the web pages. Best regards, Ann Dupuis wildmule@aol.com ghostgames@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:39:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Kobolds. On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > Personally i like the Kobolds (Koboldi people?). Especially after reading > The Nothern Reaches. There it was hinted that Kobolds might be one of the > Major races, like dwarves, elves, hin and humans. > perhaps it is time for them to get their own clan relic. Shining One: > here's a mission for you.. > Could the Kobolds be related to lupin? > > note: in respect of the little people; halflings are called Hin. > Havard Faanes. As a GM, I love the kobolds - ingenious underdogs living by their wits- As a player, I really, really, hate the vicious little buggers. Especially after me and a friend decided that the Northern Reaches and Norwold kobolds often were subcontracted by Modrigwerg dwarwes as construction workers for their traps. (You really, really regret this, don't you Bjarte ?) As a result, the kobolds have picked up a lot of simple but effective rope-and-pulley traps, trapdoor and pit traps. Entering a kobold lair *in the lands that this knowledge has spread to* is pretty painful... Of course, it gets easier when you know what to look for, but the basic premise is that as teh 'weak sistars' of the humanoids, the kobolds have to put much larger emphazis on clan discipline and ingenuity to survive as a race. ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:29:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion Oeystein H. Lund. pontificated: > Anyway - the master doesn't seem too interested in conquering Darokin, > otherwise he'd launch the attack simultaneusly in the Darokinian harbour > and Akesoli - not just attack Akesoli. The way the module is set up, the > Master actively disregards opportunities for flanking movements, > preferring to spend the lives of his followers in all-out attacks. Well, the Master might not have a choice on that. I don't think he controls any coastal region before the invasion, so he don't have any navy or the knowledge of how to build one. At the start of the war, he would not want to attack Glentri because of the powerful M-U there and attacking Astrughin(sp) will be time consuming and difficult with little to gain. Knowing his advantage of haveing lots of fantical troops, the best thing to do is rush as many of them through Western Darokin and reach the certral plains as fast as possible through the narrow path south of the lake (north of the lake are too hilly for quick troop movement). I don't know why he attack Akesoli first, as it don't have much of a military presence and it give Darokin few extra days of warning. But in any case, I agree with you that the master are probably not a fellower of Loki, but I don't think he is a fellower of Thanatos either. It is not quite the style of Thanatos just to control a group of people and tell them to attack somewhere else (not subtle enough). My guess for Master's patron is a student of Thanatos that don't quite have his teacher's style yet, but eager to impress him by starting an all out war. - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: al445947@academ01.cem.itesm.mx (CORTES M. RODOLFO .) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:54:39 -0600 Subject: [Mystara] Greetings. Hi... to all I'm new hwereHi... to all I'm new hw^Here^H SEE???????? Im newhere.. =) ok. well i hope this group will discuss Mystara Campaign. really. so after that,I have a dobt oops doubt. Whats the deal with TSR ????? guess that I'm not gonna be able to wriute the words Mystara or TSR???? is really a big promblem to TSR having WWW pages that talk about the compabny???????? Is not this Publicity? (FREE) I think that thepersons who talk about TSR are users of their products, or noit????? well guess I'm not very well informed. ANYWAY Hello to al! oops all! Sorry for my english. still studying it. By the way is any other MEXICAN beside me??????? ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:04:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline: Possible (c) violation? I sent this message to TSRInc@aol.com, and got a favourable reply (in my opinion, anyway. :) ). Take a look for yourself: - ----Begin reply quote---- Over the past several months, I compiled a timeline of Mystara's history from as many of the Mystara/Known World/Hollow World/Red Steel products that I can find. I posted this timeline to the Mystara mailing list, and then an updated version after I added some more information. At the time, I wasn't aware that doing so might be a copyright violation. I've stated that I have no claim to the Timeline, and consider it freeware, subject to any and all restrictions that TSR cares to place on it. However, I would like to know just what those restrictions might be. :) If you would like, I can email you a copy of the timeline, and a list of my sources, so you can judge it better. A good portion of it is taken verbatim from the /Gazetteer/ timelines, with additions and paraphrasing from other M/KW/HW/RS products. On Tue, 30 Jan 1996 TSRInc@aol.com wrote: > Daniel - > > Actually, we'd have no problem with it, as long as you only post it > to the Mystara list and official TSR sites (such as AOL, GEnie, > and ftp.mpgn.com). Also, a note indicating that it is an unofficial > timeline, not endorsed by TSR, would be nice. > > - Sean Reynolds > TSR Online Coordinator > TSRinc@aol.com | AOL: keyword TSR | http://users.aol.com/tsrinc/ - ----End reply quote---- I believe that this also answers people's questions about if they can post copies on their web pages. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #55 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #56 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 31 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 056 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:46:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline: Possible (c) violation? m On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Daniel Boese wrote: > I sent this message to TSRInc@aol.com, and got a favourable reply (in my > opinion, anyway. :) ). Take a look for yourself: > > ----Begin reply quote---- [Daniel's message and Seans reply mercililessly snipped] Daniel, I want to thank you for posting this; I think it gives us a fair indication of what is and isn't acceptable for posting. From this, as well as other postings from Sean, I get the feeling TSR is a lot less worried about short-term formats such as this list, or the news groups. So, compiled info such the timeline or obscure Immortals seems like fair game. Still, remeber that complete copies are still not allowed. Again, if a person wants to post something that they feel is in a grey area, feel free to ask me. Better safe than sorry. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:30:47 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mystara] The Master's War. On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: > Oeystein H. Lund. pontificated: > > Anyway - the master doesn't seem too interested in conquering Darokin, > > otherwise he'd launch the attack simultaneusly in the Darokinian harbour > > and Akesoli - not just attack Akesoli. The way the module is set up, the > > Master actively disregards opportunities for flanking movements, > > preferring to spend the lives of his followers in all-out attacks. > > Well, the Master might not have a choice on that. I don't think he > controls any coastal region before the invasion, so he don't have any > navy or the knowledge of how to build one. At the start of the war, he Two legions of his support Black Eagle Hendricks in the Karameikan civil war - I believe they had to get there by sea somehow - I'm prepared to bet money on them not going by land, as that would entail over 2000 nomad soldiers passing through Darokin unchallenged at one pont. And the Masters troops include goblins and giants... I dont think they'd have been unchallenged unless they came by sea. In any case, Hule has port cities (X5), and it would be easy for him to raid Slagovich (X6, X7) for ships. Not to say that he'd risk moving a large number of legions by sea - the Ierendi and Minrothad fleets would be able to stop that as soon as they join the war. But if he could put 2-3 units down by the darokinian harbourtown, he'd open up a wide front. And in X10 I think it goes like this : Narrow frontline - Darokin wins, broad frontline - the Master wins. Once the master has a broad front, he can bring superior numbers into play. Then Darokin is toast, because he has superior troops as well as numbers. > would not want to attack Glentri because of the powerful M-U there and > attacking Astrughin(sp) will be time consuming and difficult with little I agree about Glantri, but in retrospect (after running the module) I can see that a winning tactic would be to simmply attack Athruagin *first* and then go for Darokin with a secure base (behind the Escarpment) and a broad front. That this tactic isn't even discussed leads me to believe that either the module is written by someone with scant knowledge of strategy (which I wouldn't rule out) or it's written with a lot of hiodden motives on the part of both the Master and his sponsor. Or maybe that the army leader is a religious fanatic with little or no tactical/strategic training and so is leading an army on the strategic level by winging it. > to gain. Knowing his advantage of haveing lots of fantical troops, the > best thing to do is rush as many of them through Western Darokin and > reach the certral plains as fast as possible through the narrow path > south of the lake (north of the lake are too hilly for quick troop > movement). I don't know why he attack Akesoli first, as it don't > have much of a military presence and it give Darokin few extra days of > warning. But in any case, I agree with you that the master are probably The main problem that Akorros presents is that it's a walled city sitting in a strategically important location. If Akorros was left alone, Darokin wouldn't have any problem ferrying troops over and using the city as a staging area for attacks on the nomad supply route, thus cutting off and quite possibly destroying any armies already in Darokin. This is one instance of military planning that actually makes some sense- if one comes up with a reason why they couldn't just attack Athruagin first. > not a fellower of Loki, but I don't think he is a fellower of Thanatos > either. It is not quite the style of Thanatos just to control a group > of people and tell them to attack somewhere else (not subtle enough). > My guess for Master's patron is a student of Thanatos that don't quite > have his teacher's style yet, but eager to impress him by starting an > all out war. Mmm, I'll concede the point - the Master's war isn't subtle. On the other hand, we're talking about the entity that created the Hattian militarism for fun - maybe this is just a hobby ? ;) ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 14:42:15 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Kol At 15.02 30/01/96 +0100, you wrote: >Personally i like the Kobolds (Koboldi people?). Especially after reading >The Nothern Reaches. There it was hinted that Kobolds might be one of the >Major races, like dwarves, elves, hin and humans. Aren't you forgetting gnomes (look at my signature :-) ) ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:33:14 +0100 (MET) Subject: Gnomes (was Re: [Mystara] Kol) On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > >Personally i like the Kobolds (Koboldi people?). Especially after reading > >The Nothern Reaches. There it was hinted that Kobolds might be one of the > >Major races, like dwarves, elves, hin and humans. > > Aren't you forgetting gnomes (look at my signature :-) ) > > ************** > Fabrizio Paoli > DM in City Of The Stars > aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr > ************** I do not know whether the gnomes should be counted as one of the major races, though the term Major Race is somewhat undefined. (It just din't feel right to put them there) But maybe they ought to be counted among these. The gnomes are not really a numerous race on Mystara. Created by Garal Glitterlode, the dwarf who won immortality under the sponsorship of Kagyar, the gnomes were placed into the mountains to live among their "cousins"; the Denwarf (Rockborn or Dwarves) The gnomes placed in the known world spread throughout the mountains of rockhome, Karameikos and Soderfjord. (some also went to Glantri according to "the Dragonlord of Mystara")The Gnomes who settled in the Hardanger Mountains of Soderfjord were slayed or driven away by Kobolds. However those who settled in the mountais of Karameikos thrived and grew numeruos. According to an old map I found in the Hollow World boxed set, there is also a band of Ice Gnomes on the southern continent of Davania. They live in the mountains north of Vulcania. I picture these as more barbaric and voilent than the otherwise happygoing, humourous gnomes. (BTW, I forgot to mention the sky-gnomes of Serraineand the gnomes of Hollow World) The reason for gnomes being regarded as unimportant on Mystara is the fact that there were never rules for playing gnomes in the basic rules of the OD&D game. therefor I submit this info to perhaps right some of the injustice they have been done. Haavard Faanes (BTW Cormyr is in the Realms Right?) ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:42:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Write clearer subject lines! Ok, I know there is a conspiracy between these tweo newsgroup to confuse me. But please write the name of the list in the title, if it is not obvious. I dont think this is too much to ask. I keep seeing martial arts or Elven Invasion or Shadow Elf Invasion on both lists and i am getting a headache because people dont say which list they are talking about. So please heed this short request and at least mention what list the post is for. You couldn't lead antroids to a picnic Megatron, to Starscream ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:50:26 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Gnomes (was Re: [Mystara] Kol) On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > According to an old map I found in the Hollow World > boxed set, there is also a band of Ice Gnomes on the southern continent > of Davania. They live in the mountains north of Vulcania. I picture these as > more barbaric and voilent than the otherwise happygoing, humourous gnomes. > (BTW, I forgot to mention the sky-gnomes of Serraineand the gnomes of > Hollow World) Actually, my understanding of these ice gnomes is that they are the gnomes who created the Earthshakers (from CM?- the module of the same name). In that module, it is stated that these gnomes come from a long way away, where they test their creations against one another, and in one of the Princess Ark articles, when Haldemar and crew are visiting the Ndjatwa (I think that's the race) ogre-elves of the southern continent (and the first appearance of Herr Rolf, in reality the leader of the Heldannic Knights), it is mentioned that somewhere to the south (roughly corresponding to the area indicated) in Vulcania, there is a land of huge machine like creatures that battle one another... make of that what you will, but also note that Jaggar's Gargantoid is modeled after the Earthshakers (AC11?- marvelous inventions) which I believe also notes that the Earthshakers come from Vulcania. (Full of all sorts of useless trivia, ain't I?) > > ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:51:21 -0500 Subject: [Mystara][Repost] Specialty Priest: Al-Kalim Al-Kalim (Initiate of Time) Alignment: LN Sex: Male Race: Human (Ylari) Clerical Alignment: Any Lawful or Neutral Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Charisma 9 Intelligence 9 Weapons Allowed: Ankus, Bagh nakh, Battle Axe, Blowgun, Bow, Chain, Chakram, Crossbow, Dart, Flail, Jambiya, Katar, Hand Axe, Mace, Cutlass, Tulwar, Long Sword, Sabre, Scimitar, Short sword, Great Scimitar Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Minor) Charm (Major) Combat (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental (Minor) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Plant (Minor) Protection (Major) Time (Major) War (Major) Weather (Minor) Granted Powers: Create Food and Water once per day Bonus Nonweapon Proficiency of Bureaucracy Turn Undead Symbol: A palm in the desert with a rising moon behind. Interests: Ylaruam, making the Ylari desert lush, Scholarship, Courage, Warriors Worshiped in: Ylaruam, Saragon (Savage Coast) ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:58:02 -0500 Subject: [Mystara][Repost] Specialty Priest: Alphaks Alphaks "The Roaring Fiend" (Empyreal of Entropy) Alignment: CE Race: Human (Alphatian) Sex: Male Clerics Alignment: Any Chaotic Followers Alignment: Any Chaotic Ability Requirements: Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: All bludgeoning plus Whip, Scourge, and Dagger Spells Granted: All (Major) Chaos (Major) Charm (Major) Combat (Major) Healing (Major) Necromancy (Major) Summoning (Major) War (Major) Granted Powers: Backstab as a Thief of equal level Cause Light Wounds once per day Detect Good once per round Cast a reversed Aid spell once per day Control Undead Symbol: A horned skull on a flaming background shaped like a pheonix Interests: Mass destruction, especially of Alphatia Worshipped in: Various areas ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:05:19 -0500 Subject: [Mystara][Repost] Specialty Priest: Alphatia Alphatia (Celestial of Energy) Alignment: LG Race: Human (Alphatian) Sex: Female Clerics Alignment: Any Lawful or Neutral Followers Alignment: Any Ability Requirements: Intelligence 9 Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: Any bludgeoning Spells Granted: All (Major) Astral (Major) Charm (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Protection (Major) Wards (Major) Granted Powers: Cure Light Wounds once per day +2 to Saves vs. Spells Clerics of Alphatia may choose one school of Wizard spells to learn as though they were priest spells. Turn Undead Symbol: A glowing shield with paints on it as an artists palette Interests: Pacifism, Artistry, Alphatia, Magical Studies, Opposing Alphaks Worshipped in: Alphatia, Bellisaria, Isle of Dawn, Norworld ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:09:02 -0500 Subject: [Mystara][Repost] Specialty Priest: Asterius Asterius (Eternal of Thought) Alignment: NG Race: Human (Blackmoor) Sex: Male Clerics Alignment: Any (if aspect of thieves, any non-Lawful) Followers Alignment: Any Ability Requirements: Wisdom 12 Dexterity 9 Weapons Allowed: Any weapon useable by Thieves Granted Spells: All (Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Numbers (Major) Protection (Major) Sun (Major) Thought (Major) Travellers (Major) Wards (Major) Granted Powers: Move Silently, this ability starts at an 8% chance modified for Dexterity and Race. It increases by 4% for every level after first. Hide in Shadows, this ability starts at an 8% chance modified for Dexterity and Race. It increases by 4% for every level after first. Clerics of Asterius may cast any spells learnable by members of the Merchant class as if they were normal priest spells. (q.v. Merchant Spells, Gaz 11 Republic of Darokin pp. 14-20) Bonus Proficiencies: Bargaining and Appraising Know Alignment once per day, in addition to the clerics normal spells. Clerics of Asterius have no power over Undead. Symbol: The Moon Interests: Trade, Merchants and Thieves Worshipped in: Any country containing Merchants or Thieves ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:15:27 -0500 Subject: [Mystara][Repost] Specialty Priest: Atruaghin Atruaghin (Hierarch of Matter) Alignment: LN Race: Human (Azcan / Atruaghin Clans) Sex: Male Clerics Alignment: 90% Lawful, 10% Neutral Followers Alignment: Lawful of Neutral Ability Requirements: Wisdom 12 Weapons Allowed: Any weapon appropriate to an Amerindian Culture Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Plant (Major) Protection (Major) Weather (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Atruaghin may never be decieved by lies. Clerics of Atruaghin may Turn Undead Symbol: Himself (Chieftain of the Clans) Interests: the Atruaghin Clans, "New Way" Azcans, Opposing Atzanteotl Worshipped in: Atruaghin Plateau, Azca ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:19:56 -0500 Subject: [Mystara][Repost] Specialty Priest: Atzanteotl Atzanteotl (Hierarch of Entropy) Alignment: LE Sex: Male Race: Shadow Elf Clerical Alignment: Any Evil Followers Alignment: Any Neutral or Evil Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Intelligence 9 Weapons Allowed: Any Azcan tribal or Any piercing Spells Granted: All (Major) Charm (Major) Combat (Major) Divination (Major) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Necromantic (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Atzanteotl can command Undead Cause light wounds 3 times per day in addition to the Priest's normal spells Detect Good once per round Clerics of Atzanteotl may cast wizard spells from the Enchantment/Charm school as if they were normal priest spells. Clerics of Atzanteotl are immune to all forms of alignment detection Symbol: a feathered serpent's silhouette Interests: Corruption Worshipped in: Azca, Schattenalf Caverns, Aengmor, Shadow Elf Caverns ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:22:06 -0500 Subject: [Mystara][Repost] Specialty Priest: Benekander Benekander (Initiate of Energy) Alignment: NG Sex: Male Race: Human (Blackmoor) Clerical Alignment: Any Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: Any Bludgeoning Spells Granted: All (Major) Astral (Major) Charm (Major) Combat (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental (Minor) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Protection (Major) Summoning (Major) Sun (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Benekander may turn Undead Symbol: a Beagle with a hardhat, mechanics uniform, and wrench Interests: Immortal non-interferance Worshipped in: Small followings in many areas ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:25:57 -0500 Subject: [Mystara][Repost] Specialty Priest: Calitha Starbrow Calitha Starbrow (Celestial of Time) Tallivai Alignment: TN Sex: Female Race: Elf (Evergrun) Clerical Alignment: Any Neutral Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Intelligence 9 Weapons Allowed: Harpoon, Spear, Trident, Net Spells Granted: All (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental Water (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Protection (Major) Time (Major) Weather (Major) Granted Powers: May specialize in any of the allowed weapons. (Under Weapon Mastery rules, clerics of Calitha progress identical to fighters.) +2 to Saves vs. all Water/Cold based effects. Cast all elemental spells as if they were one level higher. Identify aquatic plants and animals, and clean water without fail upon reaching 3rd level. Clerics of Calitha may cast any spell from the Wizard school of Elemental Water as if it were a normal priest spell. Confer Water Breathing as per the spell once per day. Symbol: a pearl in mother of pearl Interests: Oceans, Aquatic Elves Worshipped in: Sea of Dread, Sea of Dawn, many coastal areas, and by the Sea-Elves ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:35:53 -0500 Subject: [Mystara][Repost] Specialty Priest: Diamond Diamond (Celestial of Matter) Star Dragon, Ruler of Lawful Dragons Alignment: LN Sex: Male Race: Dragon Clerical Alignment: Any Lawful Followers Alignment: Any Lawful Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Intelligence 9 Weapons Allowed: Any Bludgeoning (most worshippers are dragons and do not use weapons) Spells Granted: All (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental Earth (Major) Healing (Major) Guardian (Major) Law (Major) Necromantic (Major) Protection (Major) Sun (Major) Granted Powers: Turn Undead +2 to Turn Undead rolls Receive d10 Hit Points per level instead of d8 Receive exceptional Con and Str bonuses as a fighter Aquire the languages of Dragon-kin (or Human-kin for Dragons) at the rate of one per level. Symbol: A crown resembling a snake swallowing its own tail w/ a diamond on the snake's head. Interests: Lawful Dragons Worshipped in: Anywhere there are dragons. ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:41:05 -0500 Subject: [Mystara][Repost] Specialty Priest: Diulanna Diulanna (Celestial of Thought) Patroness of Will Alignment: NG Sex: Female Race: Human (Neathar) Clerical Alignment: Any Lawful or Neutral Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 14 Strength 9 Constitution 12 Weapons Allowed: Any Neathar or Hinterland Tribal weapon Spells Granted: All (Major) Charm (Major) Combat (Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Protection (Major) Thought (Major) War (Major) Wards (Major) Granted Powers: Turn Undead -1 bonus to individual initiative Bonus proficiency of Endurance 90% resistance to sleep and charm spells, or similar effects. Symbol: A spear thrust clean through a boulder. Interests: Willpower, Strong willed heros. Worshipped in: Neathar lands, the Hinterlands ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:48:35 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Djaea Djaea (Hierarch of Matter) Alignment: NG Sex: Female Race: Human (Neathar) Clerical Alignment: Any Good Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Weapons Allowed: Any Bludgeoning Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Minor) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental Air (Minor) Elemental Earth (Major) Elemental Fire (Minor) Elemental Water (Minor) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Plant (Minor) Protection (Major) Summoning (Major) Sun (Minor) Weather (Minor) Granted Powers: At third level a Cleric of Djaea may accurately identify plants, animals, and clean water. At fifth level a Cleric of Djaea may shapechange into a normal bird once per day. The cleric heals d6*10% of the damage he has suffered when this ability is used. The cleric's clothing and one item in each hand become part of the new shape to reappear when the cleric resumes human-form. The change takes one round. At sixth level the cleric may also shapechange into a reptile once per day. At seventh level may also shapechange into a mammal once per day. Clerics of Djaea have no power over undead. Symbol: A large white stone with a serpent curled around it. Interests: Preservation of Life and Planets Worshipped in: Anywhere ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #56 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #57 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, 1 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 057 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:52:49 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Eiryndul Eiryndul (Empyreal of Energy) Alignment: CG Sex: Male Race: Elf (Sylvan Realm) Clerical Alignment: Any (Preferably Non-Lawful) Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Intelligence 9 Weapons Allowed: Long Bow, Short Bow, Long Sword, Short Sword Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Major) Chaos (Major) Charm (Major) Divination (Major) Numbers (Major) Plant (Major) Granted Powers: Detect Secret and Concealed doors as an Elf. Learn the languages of forest creatures. One language may be gained per level. Clerics of Eiryndul may cause minor chaotic effects in a 20' radius. These effects are almost never harmful to the victim, who may receive a Save vs. Spells if appropriate. These effects are intended to amuse others and aid the Clerics in pranks and practical jokes. An attempted misuse of this power will fail, and perhaps Eiryndul may be so upset with the Cleric as to visit such effects on him. Example: This ability could be used to cause someone to trip and land face first into a nearby bakery dish, but not to trip and fall into a pit filled with poisonous snakes. Clerics of Eiryndul have no power over undead. Symbol: A Chesire cat smile on a black background. Interests: Forest Races, Mischief, Elves Worshipped in: Any community with close Elven ties. ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:00:22 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Faunus Faunus (Temporal of Matter) Inuus, Lupercus, Pan Alignment: CN Sex: Male Race: Satyr Clerical Alignment: Any (Preferably Non-Lawful) Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Charisma 12 Weapons Allowed: Druidic Weapons Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Major) Chaos (Major) Charm (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental (Major) Plant (Major) Sun (Major) Travellers (Major) Weather (Major) Granted Powers: Speak with animals at will. Bonus Proficiency in one musical instrument (commonly shepard's pipes) Given a musical instrument with which he is proficient, the cleric can draw out an impulse in another. The target must be able to hear. The ability takes one full round to be effective. At the end of the round the target is allowed a Save vs. Spells at +4 to resist the effect. For each subsequent round of playing the Save is given a -1 penalty. After five rounds, and each round after, the cleric must make an unmodified Save vs. Spells or be affected himself. Any interuption requires the cleric to start over as if on the first round. This ability can only be used to amplify emotions, not create them. So, for example, a peasant who is angry with the tax collector could be made angry enough to attack him, but a meditating cleric could not. This ability may affect multiple targets. Clerics of Faunus have no power over undead. Symbol: A drinking horn with ram's horns. Interests: Forest Races, Hedonism Worshipped in: Any community with ties to forest races. ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:06:36 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Great One The Great One (Eternal of Matter) Ruler of All Dragonkind Alignment: TN Sex: Male Race: Dragon Clerical Alignment: Any Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: Any bludgeoning Spells Granted: All (Major) Astral (Major) Creation(Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Numbers (Major) Protection (Major) Thought (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of the Great One have no power over undead. Fly once per day as per the spell. Learn the languages of Dragonkin (Humankin for Dragons) at the rate of one per level. Shapechange to Half-Dragon form for one hour per level usable once per day. The Half-Dragon is of the appropriate type if the cleric is a dragon, or of a dragon of the clerics alignment, chosen at character creation, if the cleric is human.(q.v. Council of Wyrms for statistics on Half-Dragons. Alternatively the half-dragon should have claw/claw/bite natural attacks, a much reduced breath weapon, and resistances, similar to those of the dragon. Exact statistics are left to DM interpretation.) Symbol: Himself (a three-headed dragon) Interests: Dragons Worshipped in: Anywhere dragons are found. ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:16:26 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Halav Halav (Celestial of Thought) Red-Hair, Patron of Warfare, Patron of Weaponmaking Alignment: LG Sex: Male Race: Human (Karameikos) Clerical Alignment: Lawful Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Strength 9 Weapons Allowed: Any Slashing or Piercing Spells Granted: All (Major) Combat (Major) Divination (Minor) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Necromantic (Minor) Protection (Major) Thought (Major) War (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Halav may Turn Undead +2 to hit vs. humanoids Gain bonuses to hit and damage due to exceptional strength as a fighter. Gain extra hit point due to high constitution as a fighter. Use d10 to determine hit points instead of d8. Symbol: A sword laid on an anvil Interests: Warfare, Opposing Humanoids Worshipped in: Karameikos and surroundings ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:20:18 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Hel Hel (Reigning Hierarch of Entropy) Alignment: NE Sex: Female Race: Unknown Clerical Alignment: Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil Followers Alignment: Neutral or Chaotic, usually Evil Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Weapons Allowed: Sickle, Scythe, Whip, Scourge Spells Granted: All (Major) Creation (Major) Combat (Major) Divination (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Summoning (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Hel may Control Undead as if the cleric were three levels higher. Cast Reincarnate as if it were a fourth level spell Animate Dead once per day A cleric of Hel may attempt to transform a living being into an undead once per week. This attempt affords the victim a Save vs. Death Magic. If the save is successful the victim takes 3d8+3 points of damage. If the save fails the victim is transformed. The victim may become any form of undead which the cleric can Command automatically. If the cleric cannot automatically command any undead the victim suffers 3d8+3 points of damage. Symbol: A black throne with skulls atop the back Interests: Reincarnation Worshipped in: Northern Reaches ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:26:27 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Ilsundal Ilsundal (Hierarch of Energy) Alignment: LN Sex: Male Race: Elven (Evergrun) Clerical Alignment: Lawful Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Weapons Allowed: Swords and Bows Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Necromantic (Major) Plant (Major) Protection (Major) Weather (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Ilsundal may turn undead 90% resistance to Sleep and Charm related spells Infravision 60' Detect secret and concealed doors as an elf Symbol: The sillhouette of a Tree of Life Interests: Protection of Elves Worshipped in: Any area where elves are present ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:33:35 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Ixion Ixion (Reigning Hierarch of Energy) Otzitiotl, The Sun-Prince, Tubak, Solarios Alignment: CG Sex: Male Race: Unknown Clerical Alignment: Any Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Intelligence 9 Weapons Allowed: Any flaming, Long Bow, Two-handed Sword Spells Granted: All (Major) Chaos (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental Fire (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Protection (Major) Sun (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Ixion may turn undead +1 to turn undead rolls Produce fire twice per day Cast spells of the wizard school of Elemental Fire as if they were clerical spells +2 to all saves vs. Energy Drain Symbol: A flaming chariot wheel Interests: Banishing Darkness, Opposing Entropy, The Sun Worshipped in: Everywhere ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:38:23 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Frey & Freya Frey and Freyja (Celestials of Thought) Fredar and Fredara Alignment: LG Sex: Male and Female respectively Race: Human (Antalian) Clerical Alignment: Lawful or Neutral Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Charisma 9 Constitution 9 Weapons Allowed: Any sword, knife, or dagger. Spells Granted: All (Major) Combat (Major) Divination (Major) Healing (Major) Law (Major) Thought (Major) War (Major) Granted Powers: Gain to hit and damage bonuses for exceptional strength as a fighter. Gain extra hit points for exceptional constitution as a fighter. Use d10 for determining hit points instead of d8. May specialize as a fighter. (Under weapon mastery rules clerics of Frey and Freyja progress as fighters.) Clerics of Frey and Freyja have added bonuses when commanding troops. In Battlesystem terms this equates to: Hits for these heros are determined as fighters. Command Diameter is determined as for a fighter. These heros add +2 to the ML of any unit they command. They may command fighter units as well as priest units. Appropriate bonuses should be given for games using another mass combat system. Bonus Proficiency: Military Tactics. Clerics of Frey and Freyja may turn Undead. Symbol: Frey: A crossed sceptre and sickle Freyja: A pegasus Interests: Intelligent Warfare Worshipped in: Antalia, the Northern Reaches ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:45:47 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Ka Ka (Hierarch of Matter) The Amber Serpent, Kalaktatla Alignment: LG Sex: Male Race: Dinosaur Clerical Alignment: Any Good. Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Weapons Allowed: Any Bludgeoning Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Plant (Major) Protection (Major) Wards (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Ka may turn undead Infravision 60' May speak with any reptile, lizard, or saurian creature At 5th level the Cleric may shapechange into any normal reptile, lizard, or saurian once per day. Symbol: A feathered, winged, amber serpent. Interests: Preservation of Races, Lizardmen, the Hollow World Worshipped in: Everywhere ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 14:56:43 +0100 Subject: Re: Gnomes (was Re: [Mystara] Kol) At 18.33 31/01/96 +0100, you wrote: > >The reason for gnomes being regarded as unimportant on Mystara is the >fact that there were never rules for playing gnomes in the basic rules of >the OD&D game. therefor I submit this info to perhaps right some of the >injustice they have been done. Yes, probably you're right, but now with the rules in Gaz10 and the various PC accessories we can also play gnomes, kobolds and many other races. However if Major Races means numerous races than gnomes can not be regarded as a Major Race, on the other hand if Mayor Races is linked to the level of civilization then we should put gnomes there (think of Serraine and Oodstock). BTW what about pookas, sprites and the like ? > >Haavard Faanes >(BTW Cormyr is in the Realms Right?) > Right. I play A CN Gnome warrior there. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 14:55:08 +0100 Subject: Re: Gnomes (was Re: [Mystara] Kol) At 18.33 31/01/96 +0100, you wrote: > >The reason for gnomes being regarded as unimportant on Mystara is the >fact that there were never rules for playing gnomes in the basic rules of >the OD&D game. therefor I submit this info to perhaps right some of the >injustice they have been done. Yes, probably you're right, but now with the rules in Gaz10 and the various PC accessories we can also play gnomes, kobolds and many other races. However if Major Races means numerous races than gnomes can not be regarded as a Major Race, on the other hand if Mayor Races is linked to the level of civilization then we should put gnomes there (think of Serraine and Oodstock). BTW what about pookas, sprites and the like ? > >Haavard Faanes >(BTW Cormyr is in the Realms Right?) > Right. I play A CN Gnome warrior there. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Michael S Lewis Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 09:31:18 CST Subject: [Mystara] Those Specialty Priests!! Bruce, thanks a lot for posting all these specialty priests! I intend to use these in a new campaign I have starting up in a month or two (assuming you don't mind ;> ). Do I remember correctly that you used the Skills & Powers book as a guide to construct these? I don't have this book; do many of the listers find it useful? Anyway, I just wanted to publicly express my thanks for these priests, and my hopes that the second half of the alphabet is coming soon. :) - -- Michael Lewis mslewis@iastate.edu ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 22:16:37 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Specialty Priest Just a few notes about the immortals posting: 1) Hel is worshipped also in Sind, where she is named Kala 2) I don't agree with on Azanteotl being worshipped in Shadow Elves caverns. Shadow elves are supposed to be followers of Rafiel and the shamans there are so enforcing the Way of Rafiel that IMO it's unlikely that Azanteotl could have a reasonable number of followers underground. 3) I think, but I'm not sure, that Halav is worshipped also in Slagovich. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:37:30 -0500 Subject: RE: [Mystara] Specialty Priest - ---------- From: Fabrizio Paoli[SMTP:brizio@lunet.it] Sent: Thursday, February 01, 1996 4:16 PM To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Specialty Priest Just a few notes about the immortals posting: 1) Hel is worshipped also in Sind, where she is named Kala Unfortunately I can't remember all the places each Immortal is worshipped. Mostly I've been using WotI and memory as sources. There's just too much to look through. If anyone else remembers a place I've missed feel free to point it out. 2) I don't agree with on Azanteotl being worshipped in Shadow Elves caverns. Shadow elves are supposed to be followers of Rafiel and the shamans there are so enforcing the Way of Rafiel that IMO it's unlikely that Azanteotl could have a reasonable number of followers underground. Oops, I meant Shattenalf Caverns where Atzanteotl has a strong following. The Shadow Elves have no known followers of Atzanteotl among their number. 3) I think, but I'm not sure, that Halav is worshipped also in Slagovich. I think so too, but I don't remember. Under a few different names I believe, depending on the section of the Savage Coast. | ] | ] | ]ruce | ierpont begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C<#`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &``P!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```#\`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!M>7-T87)A+6Q :6\N M8V]M`%--5% `;7ES=&%R82UL0&EO+F-O;0``'@`", $````%````4TU44 `` M```>``,P`0```!$```!M>7-T87)A+6Q :6\N8V]M``````,`%0P!`````P#^ M#P8````>``$P`0```!,````G;7ES=&%R82UL0&EO+F-O;2<```(!"S !```` M%@```%--5% Z35E35$%202U,0$E/+D-/30````,``#D`````"P! .@$````" M`?8/`0````0````````#T"P!"( '`!@```!)4$TN36EC``0`,P$!(( #``X```#,!P(``0`6 M`!\`#P`$`!X!`0F `0`A````130T1C,W-39%-S5#0T8Q,3E",C$T-#0U-3,U M-# P,# `YP8!`Y &``P&```2````"P`C```````#`"8```````L`*0`````` M`P`V``````! `#D`H-.ZQQ_QN@$>`' ``0```!\```!213H@6TUY2!0``@0 M`0```&4````M+2TM+2TM+2TM1E)/33I&04)225I)3U!!3TQ)4TU44#I"4DE: M24] 3%5.151)5%-%3E0Z5$A54E-$05DL1D5"4E5!4EDP,2PQ.3DV-#HQ-E!- M5$\Z35E35$%202U,0$E/0T]-``````(!"1 !````A 0``( $```+" ``3%I& M==LR;7S_``H!#P(5`J@%ZP*#`% "\@D"`&-H"L!S970R-P8`!L,"@S(#Q0(` M<')"<1'B- WP#- 2 P`C$JD#$Y.38@-#8Z'D D,$TE_R"M5&\;*#\BZVT3L0K M82UL:D D$"X%H&TL3R<.=9QB:AZQ+F\BZU)E,[#46TTP5%T&`' %D G0K M(% (@1/ &O\<`S-.-AUW&D4>=DIU$\ @Z&$@9@?1;AZ1!" !H,,(8 5 =&AE M( =P!&!G`" '0 0@<&\3P N 9X(Z"H4Q*2!(90,@R00`('<%L'-H!2 V@'YD M.K \D"0@"X &``N 9.TJD'<[\!80(#Z / $$(*QN80> /N!+!T!A"H]S&A]! M@E5N`A `("5P8443T&PK($D@8P!P)_\%0!80!X &T 20/O$#(#OBU0M18P>1 M90#0:$2 /#4Y/APN( 70/-%$8B=V-SP`16 )\" Z@#T!(%=_'I!$D !P/N!% M,06P*R!A?P0@/R (<$912$$J$$ !)R4$(&HZ@G1O)"!M= 5U%9`@) "? '0,U.0$-9 M]#_507171Q& _T^B$\ #8$FQ7-0]`4N$60S392,[("!K.R!W`Z!=R7_8 ),@7>55>5%%DA!0[ $@?TZM60& MD#K@%A!2`4"R!"#W1)!%8!PP94D`*I -L#: _S^@2:)7`5Y3'K$D$ .@77'[ M.^(&$'964#P`"%!*X"6@/W6/'I0Q37P$&UQ[GR!\_B V4(HUB@&(%8H!*N!0 M$7^)\3P0!) \P (P<_P5,0`!C: #`! 0``````,`$1 `````0 `',. D9.@> E\;H!0 `(,. D9.@>\;H!'@`]``$````%````4D4Z( ````#OU0`' ` end ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:47:44 -0500 Subject: RE: [Mystara] Those Specialty Priests!! - ---------- From: Michael S Lewis[SMTP:mslewis@iastate.edu] Sent: Thursday, February 01, 1996 10:31 AM To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: [Mystara] Those Specialty Priests!! Bruce, thanks a lot for posting all these specialty priests! I intend to use these in a new campaign I have starting up in a month or two (assuming you don't mind ;> ). First, thank you. Second, go ahead and use them, feel free to suggest improvments if they don't playtest well, etc. I've never used them in a campaign (I'm still writing them) so I don't know if they'll be well balanced or not. Do I remember correctly that you used the Skills & Powers book as a guide to construct these? I don't have this book; do many of the listers find it useful? So far the opinions about S&P seem split 50/50 some find it useful or at least interesting, others think its a nice waste of $20.00. Personally I think it was a good idea that wasn't taken quite far enough. As for the priests, I've been using S&P as sort of a guide. I've been sort of assigning point values to the abilities I think of based on their power/usefulness compared to what's already in the book. Anyway, I just wanted to publicly express my thanks for these priests, and my hopes that the second half of the alphabet is coming soon. :) Working on it... | ] | ] | ] ruce | ierpont begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@\#`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &``P!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```#\`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!M>7-T87)A+6Q :6\N M8V]M`%--5% `;7ES=&%R82UL0&EO+F-O;0``'@`", $````%````4TU44 `` M```>``,P`0```!$```!M>7-T87)A+6Q :6\N8V]M``````,`%0P!`````P#^ M#P8````>``$P`0```!,````G;7ES=&%R82UL0&EO+F-O;2<```(!"S !```` M%@```%--5% Z35E35$%202U,0$E/+D-/30````,``#D`````"P! .@$````" M`?8/`0````0````````#T"P!"( '`!@```!)4$TN36EC`' ``0```"@```!213H@ M6TUY2!0# $````%````4TU44 `` M```>`!\,`0```!H```!B<&EEY&<4_\`"@$/`A4"J 7K`H,`4 +R"0(`8V@* MP'-E=#(W!@`&PP*#,@/%`@!P)S=&5M`H,S=P+D!Q,"@'T*@ C/"=D[ M\18/,C4U`H *@0VQ"V#@;F M=@R"M070:1%Q90,@!?!,!] !! !;4TU44#IMM'-L)&) !S 3P&$3T/(N"8!U M71^?(*T&8 (P$R'?(NM4: AP2 P,2K@,3DY(C8K MP# Z,QK004VS)D\@K51O*(\BZVT3L9$*P&$M;"5P;RX%H,9M+*\G7G5B:AZQ M+L^I(NM;33"T72I1;Q&PK08`< 60!S%T*W!0"($Q$\!S(2$:_QP#,S:7'7<: M11YV0BLP8V4JX))T$8!N:P0@82 5H%<%0 (0! #( -0"> _ `C $( :0/5(K<$6$"U'6>1/032%W) !L*N 1P/9C1G ^X"="(4$0 M0B %P-\_L3]A2[% M$%7*%! 47"[/,$],7<%$#S32Z(I/;#'/Y ^\$6$:VYO M!^!.%?HG/3%B-M!/@E6@!T `<,\[4#]@!;%4P'0N."\Y/_TZ3$14$A80!X & MT%#!!:'[%A >P&PK<#N1!4!$TE#V[08`:U+A!" F-X!4T 20=P0@1I4&X&]) MH"60._%G_'5I#; _=4S^0]F9 -$.P< N M,4 &,0&@\PA@*"$F4#VP">!2H0M0\60Q-3 O:K!3\0> 8]W_0[);T24@)9$_ M`Q80/,,JX/\>D#UP7:%A44F14T [X@,`7SM03W ED6BQ3B D`= N^QQP4!%0 M79$"(#TA*W ^\/]N5F]27K)>4&01#; \`%NSEV]A1:(!D&L)\"!Q7O!/;Y%H M4@GP"&!G:% Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:52:19 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Kagyar Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) Ka-Gar, The Artisan, Flasheyes Alignment: NG Sex: Male Race: Brute Man Clerical Alignment: Any Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: Axes and Hammers Spells Granted: All (Major) Charm (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Elemental Earth (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Protection (Major) Granted Powers: Infravision 60' +1 to Saves vs. Spells, at 9th level this ability becomes identical to the Mystic's Resistance ability. [The cleric automatically recieves half damage from spells, no damage if a successful save is made.] +1 to Saves vs. Rod, Staves, and Wands. Detect unusual stonework as a Dwarf, if the cleric is a Dwarf he is automatically successful if actively examining the masonry, otherwise the normal chances to succeed apply, even if the Dwarf does not actively search. Clerics of Kagyar automatically recieve the Artistic Ability Trait. Characters with this trait may perform simple artistic tasks, sketching maps, molding small figures, even without proficiency in these matters. Characters who take proficiency in an art form are able to create exceptional works of art worth up to 50% more than normal. Symbol: A crossed hammer and chisel. Interests: The Arts, Dwarves, Brute Men Worshipped in: Rockhome, Brute Man territories, artisan societies or guilds ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:56:52 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Khoronus Khoronus (Reigning Hierarch of Time) Father Time Alignment: TN Sex: Male Race: Human (Blackmoor) Clerical Alignment: Any Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: Scythe Spells Granted: All (Major) Astral (Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Summoning (Major) Time (Major) Travellers (Major) Granted Powers: All casting times are reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1. Spell durations are increased by 1 round per 2 levels. +2 to initiative Spells of the Time sphere are cast as if the priest were 1 level higher. Clerics of Khoronus may cast the following Wizard spells as if they were normal Priest spells: Alacrity, Contingency, Extension I, Extension II, Extension III, Foresight, Forget, Haste, Mordenkainen's Lucubration, Past Life, Permanency, Slow, Time Stop Once per day per level the Cleric may dodge an attack or spell by stepping out of time. This requires a successful Save vs. Spells, if it is unsuccessful the cleric recieves any normal Saving Throw with a +2 bonus. Symbol: A water clock or hourglass Interests: The lessons of Time. Worshipped in: Everywhere ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:59:00 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Korotiku Korotiku (Hierarch of Thought) The Spider, The Trickster Alignment: CN Sex: Male Race: Unknown Clerical Alignment: Any, preferably Chaotic Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Intelligence 9 Weapons Allowed: Any Bludgeoning Spells Granted: All (Major) Chaos (Major) Charm (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Numbers (Major) Thought (Major) Granted Powers: Hide in Shadows as a thief. This ability increases by 4% per level. Clerics of Korotiku may cast spells of the Illusion/Phantasm school as if they were priest spells. Clerics of Korotiku may cause minor chaotic effects in a 20' radius. These effects are almost never harmful to the victim, who may receive a Save vs. Spells if appropriate. These effects are intended to amuse others and aid the Clerics in pranks and practical jokes. An attempted misuse of this power will fail, and perhaps Korotiku may be so upset with the Cleric as to visit such effects on him. Example: This ability could be used to cause someone to trip and land face first into a nearby bakery dish, but not to trip and fall into a pit filled with poisonous snakes. Symbol: A spider silhouette Interests: Mischief, Thinking Worshipped in: Everywhere, primarily Pearl Island and Tangor ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:03:26 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Koryis Koryis (Temporal of Thought) Patron of Peace and Prosperity Alignment: LG Sex: Male Race: Human (Alphatian) Clerical Alignment: Lawful or Neutral Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: Quaterstaff, Net, Bolas, Bo Stick, Lasso, Any Defensive or Subduing Martial Art Spells Granted: All (Major) Charm (Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Protection (Major) Thought (Major) Wards (Major) Granted Powers: Protection from Evil 3 times per day Turn Undead Cast Friends once per day. Bonus Proficiency of Negotiation, a +1 bonus is earned for every 3 levels. Symbol: a hand palm outward in a sign of peace Interests: Peace, Prosperity Worshipped in: Alphatia, Ochalea ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:06:01 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Loki Loki (Eternal of Entropy) Bozdogan, Farbautides, Lokar, Prince of Deceit Alignment: CE Sex: Male Race: Human (Norworld) Clerical Alignment: NE, CN, CE Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Dexterity 9 Weapons Allowed: Any Thief Spells Granted: All (Major) Chaos (Major) Charm (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Summoning (Major) Granted Powers: Find/Remove Traps as a Thief. This ability improves by 4% per level. Cast spells of the Illusion/Phantasm school as if they were normal Priest spells. Clerics of Loki may cause minor chaotic effects in a 20' radius. These effects are always harmful to the victim, who may receive a Save vs. Spells if appropriate. These effects are intended to embarass others and aid the Clerics in their fiendish practical jokes. This power is almost impossible to misuse, but if Loki deems the cleric is creating general entertainment rather than amusment at the expense of the victim, Loki may demonstrate proper use of the power on the Cleric. Example: This ability should not be used to enhance the performance of the Court Jester, but rather to make the normally esteemed ruler look as foolish as the Court Jester. Perhaps having him suddenly become drunk at Court or have his pants fall down while giving an important speech. Symbol: A beautiful goblet filled with a vile liquid Interests: Mischief, Trickery Worshipped in: Norworld, Hule, small followings in Thyatis, Anatalia and Neathar ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:08:28 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Masauwu Masauwu (Eternal of Entropy) Alignment: LE Sex: Male Race: Human (Minrothad) Clerical Alignment: Any Evil. Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Charisma 9 Intelligence 9 Weapons Allowed: Any Bludgeoning Spells Granted: All (Major) Charm (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Travellers (Major) Granted Powers: Bonus Proficiency Fast-Talking, a +1 bonus is earned for every three levels of experience. Cast spells of the Charm sphere as if the priest were one level higher. Cast spells of the Enchantment/Charm school as if they were normal Priest spells. Clerics of Masauwu may gain followers whenever they establish a stronghold, regardless of the clerics level. Clerics of Masauwu may Control Undead. Any attempt to decern the alignment of a cleric of Masauwu will always fail. Symbol: The crossroads Interests: Deceit, Con Artists, Recruiting for Entropy Worshipped in: Small followings everywhere ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:10:39 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Mealiden Starwatcher Mealiden Starwatcher (Empyreal of Energy) The Red Arrow, Milan Alignment: CG Sex: Male Race: Elven (Sylvan Realm) Clerical Alignment: Any Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 9 Weapons Allowed: Swords and Bows Spells Granted: All (Major) Animal (Major) Creation (Major) Divination (Major) Guardian (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Major) Plant (Major) Protection (Major) Weather (Major) Granted Powers: Clerics of Mealiden may turn undead 90% resistance to Sleep and Charm related spells Infravision 60' Detect secret and concealed doors as an elf Bonus Proficiency Blind Shooting +2 to AC when unarmored and unencumbered Symbol: A rainbow with one star above and one star below it. Interests: Protection of Ilsundal, Swashbucklers Worshipped in: Any area where elves are present ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:54:05 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Karaash Karaash (Initiate of Thought) Ilneval Alignment: NE Sex: Male Race: Orc Clerical Alignment: Any Followers Alignment: Any Required Abilities: Wisdom 12 Strength 9 Weapons Allowed: Two handed sword, Heavy Crossbow, Light Crossbow, Hand Crossbow, Any Axe, Spear, Club, Any Hammer. Spells Granted: All (Major) Combat (Major) Divination (Major) Healing (Major) Necromantic (Minor) Protection (Major) Thought (Major) War (Major) Granted Powers: Control Undead Gain fighter's bonuses to hit and damage for high strength. Gain fighter's bonus to Hit Points for high constitution. Clerics of Karaash may specialize in one of their allowed weapons. Clerics of Karaash use d10 to determine Hit Points instead of d8. 90% resistance to sleep and charm related spells or powers. Symbol: A two-handed sword with flanges on the upper half of the blade. Interests: Orcs Worshipped in: Broken Lands, Krugel Hordes, other Humanoid societies ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:52:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Milenian church of Tarastia As a preface to two new immortals, I decided to describe the Milenian church of Tarastia, as I have developed it . All suggestions and comments welcome. The Milenian Church of Tarastia Pantheon:The M.C. of T. includes Tarastia, of course. The two new immortals, Alexander and Pana, recent paladins of said religion, are minor deities who are just beggining to get worshipped as such here. Halav and Petra are worshipped simply to pacify the Milenian officials-they rank as minor members of the pantheon. Relations w/ Milenia in general:Relations with Milenia have often been strained due to the closeness with the Jennites, fellow Tarastia followers. Also many members of the church are adamant about abolition of slavery and equal rights for women, which is frowned upon by the Milenian government. Tensions reached their highest when Pana and Alexander helped the Jennites in trying to stop Adronius's plan of damming all their lands-an act that resulted in a minor treaty between the two nations granting Milenia land and insuring Jennites water. The two paladins who led the outsiders were exiled. Pana and Alexander made it back into the good graces of Milenia by helping many assorted forces in vanquishing the Tower of Night, in which Tarastia' forces played a key role. Since then tensions have existed, but not much. Location:The M.C. of T. was originally centered in Tromeas and the neighboring towns, near the temple of Tarastia. The minor temple by Pelai was also a sight of tarastia worship. But recently Pana and Alexander and their followers(described below) cleared out the land of Phos into a town of law and order and overall goodness. Since then, much of the Tarastia church(mainly fighter-types) relocated to Phos. Composition:The church is mostly fighters training to be paladins(25%) and paladins(5%). Mages play a very minor role(2%) as do mystics(1%). Normal men and women make up 30% of the church.(many worshippers become paladin-trainees so as to further the cause better) The rest is clerical(low #s due to WIS requirement of Hollow World). The leader is always a cleric, though. (see below for leadership details) Laws:The Temples of Tarastia and the Town of Phos have been established as areas free from general Milenia law. These areas are under the strict rule of Tarastia's forces and more orderly than most of Milenia. Also, the Milenian laws normally transfer over to these areas anyways, except those which are unjust. Relations w/other churches:Petra and Halav recognize the service done to the country by this organisation, and so have mostly let them be. Jammaradu, a very minor player in Milenia, is a major foe. Nyx(sp?) is also a hater of this group, for they destroyed the followers of Nyx. The few remainging followers of Nyx in Milenia have banded together in small groups, often attacking unsuccesfully the temples of Tarastia. A medium-sized pocket of resistance has formed in Demtor and plans on attacking the Pelai temple soon. Asterius regrets the loss of thievery in Phos, but the city's safety has increased merchant trade, pacifying him. The 12 Artisans(right name?) are also happy with the freedom of craftsmen in Phos and the usrrounding countryside. Leadership:The head of the church for the last 19 years has been Goraldion, 22nd level cleric of Tarastia. He believes in a mildly strong, honest rule which he has carried out. He allows the rest of the church to undertake missions for Tarastia, and sometimes supplies them even if they don't ask(assuming he nows of them). He is a busy man but happy of the churhch's expansion to Phos and the addition of the 2 new immortals(who he knows exist, but does not worship). At age 56, he still runs the main center near Tromeas and allows the "young folk" to run much of the advances. He is on high terms with the Jennite king-priests and has been trying to get represantives from Milenia into the mian branches of tarastia in the Jennite lands as well as draw Jennites to Milenia to help teach the followers there. The current head of the Phos movement is Liberios, a 15-th level cleric. He takes orders from Goraldion, but basically has free reign as lord-mayor of the city. He prefers comnbat as a means to the ends of the church, and has created a somewhat violent police force of Phos. Still, he is well-respected for his courage and zeal and at age 48, is the #2 cleric of Tarastia in Milenia. He is rather new to the role, put in 3 years ago when the great teacher-cleric Platas died fighting the Liches of Corisa. The current head of the paladins of Tarastia is Caracia, a 15th level paladin.(no spell-casting). She has developed the armed forces of tarastia into a smooth unit and still trains the forces of Paladins at the main church near Tromeas. She has worked hard for the tarastian movement and is pleased at its growth. She has run the army now for 12 yrs, since the age of 31 and is the best fighter in the church. She does not believe in retiring soon, and continues to gain more paladin-trainees at Tromeas each year. Oleus,a 38 year old, 14-th level paladin(not spell-casting) runs the Phos military. He is a strict military man and no-nonsense. He takes orders from Caracia at Tromeas, but due to the distance has basically free reign, just like Liberios. He often clashes with the more violent, less orderly, more devout Liberios over matters in Phos, but is respected by the lord-mayor and is given much consideration. Followers of Pana and Alexander: Clerics(all 15th level, only Idaemos is over 35) Ideamos is a 42 year old cleric. He is a vigilante for the mostpart, not feeling that most of Tarastia's followers are capable of achieving as much as him. He is an independent type and never got used to his role as an underling to the 2 paladins. He doesn't believe at all in laws, but is a gung-ho type for juistice(his interpreatation thereof). He is currently roaming the lands of Milenia as a vigilanta looking for injustice to eliminate. he is a wanted man by the Milenian governemnt, which looks distastefully aty his actions Thessne is a youngish cleric of tarastia. She resides at the Pelai port with her husband, Epicharthenes(13-th level paladin(not spellcasting), another follower of the 2 paladins. They are both sailors at heart and work hard against pirates and contrabanders(word?). They run an orphanage and hospital at Pelai and are knwon to take in many unfortunates of all kinds. Demosthenes is a strong believer in justice. In fact, it is the one rule he follows- do what is right. It has caused little problem with the Tarastian officials, but Milenians havea disslike for his ideas. Still, they must accept him, as legally elected magistrate of Phos(and a fine one). He wishes to eventually fix the laws of the country through ther legislature. He dislikes fighting and only uses it as a last resort, preferring negotiations. Platme is the oldest daughter of Pana and Alexander. She was belssed with the clerical natue her parents were not. She knows they have become immortal, but still keeps Tarastia as her sole deity, though she does pay them homage. She is astrong believer in all the ideals of Tarastia adn her parents and is proud of what they did for Phos. She is an innate wanderer and feels stifled if somewhere for a long time. For now, she is currently running the search crews that take out bandits in the Phos countryside. Mage Thesseon is the high mage of Tarastian followers in Milenia. He is a middle-age 12-th level mage who is a strong believer in justice. He isALWAYS calm and in control of himself. He is an expert scholar of Milenian law and wants to fix all the problems therein. As a result, he wishes to run for magistrate in Corisa, where he knows he will be opposed by the political machines there. He is patient, though, and is developing a fine reputation as a legal scholar (Paladin listings coming later, followed by decriptions of Alexnader and Pana) You couldn't lead antroids to a picnic Megatron, to Starscream ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 16:41:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] New PBeM in Karameikos Just found this in rec.games.pbm, and thought somebody here might be interested.. ehetzel@flex.net Eric Hetzel at FlexNET Customer From the Karameikos' Explorer's Guide: "Karameikos, a very young kingdom in a very old land, lies on the southern continent of Brun on the the planet Mystara, in a region its inhabitants call the Known World. As kingdoms go, it is a small one. A rider on a fast horse can travel from Karameikos's capital, Mirros, to its western-most settlement at Fort Doom in a day, to its easternmost village of Rugalov in a day in a half, and to King's Road Keep in the Atlan Tepes Mountains to the north in two days. Yet within its boundaries any group of enthusiastic heroes can find enough adventure, danger, treachery, and excitement to satisfy them." In this campaign, as the adventurers, you will find this passage to be true. I consider Karameikos to be the ideal setting for good role-playing and that is why I have chosen it for my campaign. Players should have working knowledge of the land; most of the characters will be from within the country so you as a player should be familiar with the culture, society, government and other basics. However, you should be advised that key information within the guides have been changed to fit into some of the adventures. A limited number of players with no background with this setting will be accepted as there as isolated groups within Karameikos as well as foreign adventurers that actively campaign here. This campaign is for role-playing, not just a slash-and-bash collection of dungeons. Characters, while still first level, should have a detailed background, and players should play according to their players background. I.e. Lawful good characters should not throw-down and attack without any provocation. There's a lot of mystery in this campaign and should be very exciting, but a campaign is only as good as its players, so good role-playing on your part will determine wheither this campaign is successful and fun. If this sounds like the kind of role-playing game that you are looking to participate in, please forward a first level character with stats and background as a reply to this e-mail. Players with no experience in this campaign setting should let me know and I'll send one to you. Since I will taking a few parties through this same campaign, I would like to know: 1) How long have you played role-playing games? 2) Have you ever played in Karameikos before? 3) If so, to what extent are you familiar with the "secrets" of the setting? and finally, 4) How often do you access the Internet and reply to your mail? The answers you give to these questions will determine which group you are placed in. I.e. a player that can only respond once every week will miss a lot if everyone else replies every day. This campaign should be fun for everyone involved. I look forward to hearing back from you. Thanks, Eric Hetzel. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 19:20:17 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Karaash On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:54:05 -0500 > From: Bruce Pierpont > To: "'mystara-l@io.com'" > Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Karaash > > Karaash (Initiate of Thought) > Ilneval > Alignment: NE > Sex: Male > Race: Orc > Ummmm. I don't think Karaash is necessarily evil. In fact, from the description of him, and the society that he sponsors in the Hollow World, I'd say he's actually LN. Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 16:42:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Karaash - ---------- From: Chris Davies[SMTP:cdavies@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca] Sent: Friday, February 02, 1996 2:20 PM To: mystara-l@io.com Cc: 'mystara-l@io.com' Subject: Re: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Karaash On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Bruce Pierpont wrote: > Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:54:05 -0500 > From: Bruce Pierpont > To: "'mystara-l@io.com'" > Subject: [Mystara] Specialty Priest: Karaash > > Karaash (Initiate of Thought) > Ilneval > Alignment: NE > Sex: Male > Race: Orc > Ummmm. I don't think Karaash is necessarily evil. In fact, from the description of him, and the society that he sponsors in the Hollow World, I'd say he's actually LN. Chris Davies. WotI says he is the ideal every Orc aspires to. Considering the general attitude of most Orc leaders I thought NE would be most appropriate. I'll have to read the HW info on him, perhaps it will give more clues to his alignment. | ] | ] | ]ruce | ierpont begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A85`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &``P!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```#\`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!M>7-T87)A+6Q :6\N M8V]M`%--5% `;7ES=&%R82UL0&EO+F-O;0``'@`", $````%````4TU44 `` M```>``,P`0```!$```!M>7-T87)A+6Q :6\N8V]M``````,`%0P!`````P#^ M#P8````>``$P`0```!,````G;7ES=&%R82UL0&EO+F-O;2<```(!"S !```` M%@```%--5% Z35E35$%202U,0$E/+D-/30````,``#D`````"P! .@$````" M`?8/`0````0````````#T"P!"( '`!@```!)4$TN36EC`' ``0```"@```!213H@ M6TUY2!0# $````%````4TU44 `` M```>`!\,`0```!H```!B<&EE/\`"@$/`A4"J 7K`H,`4 +R"0(`8V@* MP'-E=#(W!@`&PP*#,@/%`@!P)S=&5M`H,S=P+D!Q,"@'T*@ C/"=D[ M\18/,C4U`H *@0VQ"V#@;F M=@R"&"!#: 40!"!$878!")!S6U--5% Z!&-D)"- 9W!U+J!S2 $,#(K$#$Y M.38@Q#(Z`= @4$TFGR"M;%1O*-\BZVT3L0K 8> M;$!I;R90`W LSUD@K4-C M+N\BZR=D\#H%2\:'4KX2LB*_,K$$(K8"QC M92R0")%P`B$@=_4>@CH]K#XD`4,!0,XL0,$L4#4T.C U'N!%\(\<<$.G(91! M[3QB<$)42D 3P78)\',M'J%HLBX)@'4^0Z#E0334'0&5#IU(`T#M!3W*F8U">(V-5;5F!+EBZ M*$D@9 (@)P5 =&C]"X!K4:(W-O3S 1P"N@_UL0 M1$!?P&"!0H%@H!&@6^"[`Z!>,D@&\!6@!^!7!;#,;&0K$ J%22=@0%QP>RN@ M7D G!"!=D2717+%,_DY9Q@J%([I9QSZ?&C4;7/L9WV,!=%J09#$$(%Y!(^'[ M7C(JT&4'0%S1!) KH%?Q^V 08:!I%A!L$3%P73 (4-<`@02!"X!G7B-G"? $ MD/]LH41 4G!DX VP4L($8!/ ^VTC5N!A!($$(%J06Q!3(V]5L4+ "&!C0" F M`'!T8=YP'G$34%*"72(G8L!?P'<&(10K$#$ ,@9VETD?,$8!80(&,*06W27\%DH?-5)F5]?"!.X'JE M>G%Z"+]!\WIA6^!"9&E%%3$`?: ``P`0$ `````#`!$0`````$ `!S @YE)8 F2?.Z`4 `"# @YE)82?.Z`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B `````=YT` ` end ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #58 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #59 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, 6 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 059 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 20:00:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Master's War. I must say that I am really pleased with the direction this group has been taking in the new year. Now, without further ado I am currently DMing X10 and it has stretched into a 7-year (so far) campaign. This is what has happened so far: Akesoli fell, and the desert nomads came pouring around Lake Amsorak. Akorros was immediately besieged and the PCs set forth to gain allies for Darokin. I will not go into detail with respect to the multiple sub-plots and PC group re-organizations as that is beyond the scope of my afternoon. Glantri joined the Darokinian alliance first, and together with Alfheim were able to keep the war in central Darokin. There were many days when plumes of smoke could be clearly seen from the capitol city, but the allies were able to keep the nomads from advancing much. Cynidicea and Rockhome were the next to declare their allegiance, with Ethangar and Ylaruam being kept out of the war by the efforts of various PCs. When the Northern Reaches joined, however, a concatenation of events ensued which led to first Ethangar, then Ylaruam, attacking the allies. The Ethangarians swept into Glantri, Rockhome, and Vestland; while the Ylari surged towards Selenica. Matters went from grim to desparate when the Broken Landers, led by Shadow Elves, laid seige to Corunglain, attacked Glantri, and struck out for Alfheim. As the situation currently stands, the coastal countries are still essentially neutral. Darokin is beset from the west by the nomads, north by the Broken Lands, and east by the Ylari. The tiny kingdom of Cynidicea (more info available on how I developed this from B4) is assisting in any way it can, but the dwarves are kept from sending much aid by attacks from the Ethangari and Ylari. The Glantrians have suddenly realized that they and the elves have been carrying a major part of the war effort, and that now they're own realms are actually threatened. Meanwhile, Ostland looks on horrified (but prepared to smash the aggressors in glorious battle) as Vestland and Soderfjord threaten to collapse from the onslaught of the Ethangari and Ylari, respectively. At this point, the Master's plan is this. Akorros, Corunglain, and Selenica will fall when the Glantrians and the elves turn to defend they're own lands. With the help of the Ethangarians, the Ylari, and the unexpected Broken Landers, Glantri and Alfheim will soon fall once Darokin City is besieged. The turning point of the war has arrived. (Time for the coastal nations to get involved, but will it be too late?) Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 20:04:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara languages v 1.2 I must say that contributions from Germany, France, Italy and Mexico have enriched the list for me! But with respect to languages, as Alexander Glantri was Thyatian, (the very word therefore derived from Thyatian, presumably) I have always considered Glantrian to be a dialect of Thyatian, with Averoingian (French), Flaemish (Dutch), Elven, and Flamenco Elven (Spanish) representing truly different languages. Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Mon, 5 Feb 96 14:36:04 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara languages v 1.2 At 20.04 04/02/96 -0500, you wrote: > But with respect to languages, as Alexander Glantri was Thyatian, >(the very word therefore derived from Thyatian, presumably) I have always >considered Glantrian to be a dialect of Thyatian, with Averoingian >(French), Flaemish (Dutch), Elven, and Flamenco Elven (Spanish) >representing truly different languages. > > Jim Sahlas > I agree on French, Dutch and Spanish, but don't forget Scottish in Klantrye. The problem with Glantrian being a dialect of Thyatian is that somewhere (notably in Gaz10 with Angus McClintock) there are glantrian wizards who speak both Glantrian and Thyatian, so they should be different languages. Otherwise it would be like someone speaking Hattian and Kerendan. The issue with Glantrian was debated in 3 or 4 postings about two weeks ago, with different points of view: >Hum. Well, I would say that you could rule that Glantrian is an >artificial language designed to give the various wizards a common >technical vocabulary. All materials on the various secret schools is >written in Glantrian, and so forth. > My feeling is that since Etienne D'Ambreville was in charge of >the Great School, "Glantrian" would probably be based on Etienne's French >(which may or may not be exactly like real-world Medieval French ...) >with loan words from Flaemish, Belcadizan Elvish, Alphatian, and >Thyatian. Since Glantrian is mostly the language of nobility, it isn't >exactly the Common Tongue. The various peasants would all speak the >language of their area, and not any other ... as GAZ3 points out, Glantri's >system is designed to keep the masters in power above all else, and the >surest way to remove any chance of rebellion is to ensure that the >potential rebels can't talk to each other. Chris Davies >For us Glantrian is >actually a later name of the language of the flamish. The older language >is called flaemish, but after A. Glantri and the new name of the nation, >it has gaind a lot of impressions from the other languages, excpecially >thyatis, so that the two are guite different (old and new english...). It >means that a mage can speak both flaemish and glantrian... sometimes. >Though all this is just a sceme of the flamish to hold on to their old >stature in glantri, and its not running smoothly... the real common >language around is really Thyatian... Anias Pasi >In our campaign Glantrians speak Glantrian, which has strong roots >in Flaemish and a couple of Elvish dialects, plus a *lot* of loan >words from various other languages. *I don't remember who posted this* In my posting of Mystara Languages I sided with Chris Davies, but, as you can see, there are many opinions on this matter. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 12:54:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Milenian church of Tarastia > Followers of Pana and Alexander: Note:I mean the followers of them in life-their allies and underlings mostly. I do not mean those who worship them. Paladin followers(all level 13, only Karara is a spell-caster): Karara is a youngish paladin who tries to take control of every situation. She underestimates her allies and those she meets, while tending to overestimate her own skills, which are good, but ot great. Hence she has trouble taking orders from anyone who is not her obvious superior and thus only Goraldion in this church. She used to be very arrogant but has cut that down as she realizes that she should pity those inferior others not treat them badly. Recently she has taken over the defense of one sqaudron of footmen at Phos, whom she is trying to get to follow her image as best they can. She is well-meaning despite her arrogance, though and truly respects the ideals of Tarastia, if she doesn't interpret them all that well. Tyrder ran away from home at a young age. He was mad at the poor treatment the servants got at his wealthy house. He found his way to the Tromeas temple of Tarastia and started on the path to paladinhood. He has become a major force in trying to free slaves who are mistreated throughout Milenia. Currently he resides in Tromeas with his wife, Carmela(discussed later). He is a kind soul but hates it when nice people get pushed too far and often stands up for anyone who is getting istreated. Liberom is not a paladin, only a fighter who follows the ideals of tarastia. He is at Tromeas now, acting as a teacher to new recruits to the cause of Tarastia. He is a skilled fighter in pole arms but dislikes violence. He blends in perfectly in a Milenian crowd in any part of the country and looks average enough to almost go unnoticed in traldar or jennite lands despite their different looks. Menana came to the cause of Tarastia under the influence of Pana. Meating this woman who rose so far above Milenian opression and into the high ranks of the Tarastian church gave her hope that she could succeed there too. She has tried to model herself after Pana, but has a large ego that prevents her from seeing some of her faults, such as her overwillingness to battle. She assumes she is the leader of a group, if not told she is not. She is currently in Western Milenia at the Jennite border as a negotiator between the two branches of Tarastia worship, if any troubles arise between the two countries. She is starting to chafe under her role, as she wants action, though, and has taken on missions to Northwest Milenia for Tarastia without notifying the main church. Cryusion is not a paladin, but rather a fighter also. He is a pacifist, except when jammaradu is involved. He has been the mahor anti-Jammaradu crusader in Milenia and continues to hunt down all followers of said deity found. He otherwise tends to be scholarly and quiet. He currently is trying to found a church of Tarastia in Demtor. Epicharthenes is mentioned earlier(by Thesne). Carmela is a strong follower and believer in the ideal of justice. She is trying to rebuild the Milenian justice system so it actually is just. For now she is in Tromeas with her husband Tyrder as the two paladins seek to gain converts for Tarastia and make the religion of justice better-known and better-followed. (Pana and Alexander descriptions forthcoming) Never underestimate the stupidity of Starscream -Blitzwing ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 15:05:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara languages v 1.2 Fabrizio Paoli pontificated: > I agree on French, Dutch and Spanish, but don't forget Scottish in Klantrye. > The problem with Glantrian being a dialect of Thyatian is that somewhere > (notably in Gaz10 with Angus McClintock) there are glantrian wizards who > speak both Glantrian and Thyatian, so they should be different languages. > Otherwise it would be like someone speaking Hattian and Kerendan. Not necessarily. In a real world example, both Manderian and Cantonese are consider as Chinese, but the two dialects are different enough that it would be very difficult for two people to communicate with each other if they know only one of the two tongue. In that case, a person that can speak both dialect will probably have both languages listed on his character sheet. Mean while, Mandarin and Pekinese are similar enough that they probably can be consider as one and the same. To make life easier in my campaign, most native language are derived from Thyatian, and are close enough that two people with different language background can communicate with each other (with various degree of diffculty). However, a Glantrian who speaks only Glantrian will not able to pass as a native in Thyatis, but a Glantrian that can speaks both Glantrian and Thyatian might. - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: Sir George Anonymous Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 18:56:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] MML Replies to Digests #40-58 Hi all, It's time for my irregular mass reply. I hate having to do it this way, but better late than never I guess. The replies go back to some messages posted about three weeks ago. RE: Death of Mystara/Mystara web site from various people These answers should go in the FAQ (if we ever put together an FAQ :) ). - -Yes Mystara is dead. TSR will not be producing anything new for it except... - -Yes Red Steel is still being produced. Red Steel is technically part of Mystara. The Savage Coast is part of Red Steel. - -Yes the last novel in the Dragons of Mystara trilogy will be produced. - -Yes TSR is going to have a Mystara web page. As a matter of fact, they are planning on supporting all of their "dead" worlds with a web page. RE: Tortles by Bruce Pierpont >Tortles. Tortoise people. They were mentioned in Voyage of the Princess >Ark, and the Red Steel Boxed set has them as a new race. Tortles were also mentioned in X9 The Savage Coast, AC9 and DMR2 Creature Catalog, and in a two-part adventure in Dungeon Magazine issues six and seven titled Tortles of the Purple Sage. RE: Churches of Karameikos and Traladara from various people According to Dragon #166: "The Church of Karameikos is of a polytheist cult. Its major patron is Asterius, with some representation of Vanya, Valerias, Tarastia, Kagyar, and Ilsundal. A single church of Karameikos often has several chapels consecrated to some or all of the above Immortal patrons. Each Immortal requires a separate cleric for services, however. Only the larger churches of Karameikos have multiple clerics on a permanent basis. The Church of Traladara is similar, although it follows exclusively the precepts of Halav, Petra, and Zirchev." Also, WotI lists Chardastes as "a native Traladaran Immortal." RE: Gibberish from various people Recently, several postings of gibberish have appeared on the mailing list. For example files titled "arik.txt" and "winmail.dat" (is that your .sig file Bruce?) were encoded and posted. Would it be possible to limit postings to ascii text so that we can all read and enjoy? I would have liked to have seen the entire posting on Arik. RE: Languages from various people I haven't compared this list to any of the previously posted lists, but here is one I put together a while back from PWA 1, 2, and 3. H is for hollow world, K is for outer world, and P is for Patera. Dialects, descriptions, and other names are in parenthesis. If it's helpful, great. If not, I apologize for cluttering the list. H&K Alphatian (Standard H&K, Flaemish K) H&K Elvish (Shadow Elf K, Shiye Lawr H&K, Belcadiz K, Erewan K, Icevale H, Callarii K, Vyalia K, Alfheim K, Meditor/Verdier K, Schattenalf H (very similar to Shadow Elf), Wendarian K) H&K Heldannic H&K Dwarvish (Denwarf-Hurgon H, Rockhome K) H Antalian H Neathar K Atruaghin H Oltec H Beastman (Gruuk) H "Brutish" (Ka-na-to) H&K Thyatian (Standard K, Hattian K, Archaic H) K Darokinian K Ethengarian K Lalor (ancient halfling) K&H Traladaran K Makai (native Ierendi) H Jennite H Kogolor Dwarvish H&K Orcish (Standard H&K, Krugel H) H Malpheggi (Lizard Man) H Traldar H Milenian (distantly related to Traldar) K Minrothad P Myoshiman (Rakasta) H Nithian H&K Gnomish (Oosdok H, Standard K, Serraine K) K Nuar (distantly related to Tanagoro) H&K Sindian K Ylari H Tanagoro RE: Product list info request from Mischa E. Gelman You were looking for info in several products (B7, B9, B11, B12, X11, HWR1, HWA1, HWA2, HWA3, HWQ1, and the entire GAZ series). What exactly did you want to know? RE: The "new" Mystara: Kol, AD&D/D&D, WotI, etc. from various people Personally, I've used Mystara for AD&D since the Expert set came out (1981?) I've always just converted things to meet my needs. I'd prefer to see AD&D stats, but it's not too difficult to convert things either way. I don't view Kol being a Shadow Elf as "a cheap AD&D trick." I think it was probably planned. Some one else wrote, "The reason for some (not all) of the anti-AD&D Mystara comes from one of the reasons for this list - to discuss Mystara as it was before Dragon #197 announced the AD&D thing." As one of the founders of the mailing list, I can assure you that this is not entirely true. *I* just wanted to keep Mystara alive and to have a group where I could discuss ideas for my favoriate campaign world. Use it for D&D, use it for AD&D, it's all the same to me. I do, however, agree that most of the AD&D Mystara products were poorly thought out. Not because they were bad as stand alone products, but because they didn't do enough to build upon the past. As for the WotI timeline, I like it. One of the complaints I've heard against it is that a gaming group doesn't get to feel the ambiance of the setting before TSR goes and changes it. Well, my group has been together for four years now, and the PC's are all 6-8th level. They've seen many sites, proven themselves to be worthy adventurers, and are just reaching the point where they can become some of the movers and shakers in the Known World. Now I have 10 years of future history to use as a guideline, and I'm looking forward to using WotI. It's great to have a world that will evolve with the PC's, and I especially love the sections indicating how the PC's can influence events. RE: Archive from various people Here's another one for the FAQ. Yes there is an archive. I save all of the digested versions of the mailing list. If you want a back issue, send me a private email. DO NOT POST YOUR REQUEST TO THE LIST. It just clutters up space, and I may not see it for a while. Unfortunately I'm very busy this semester, and I only get a chance to read and answer posts to the mailing list every two to three weeks (hence the mass postings like this one). If you send me a private email (lcdavis@mailbox.syr.edu) requesting specific issues of the digest, I will send them out to you as quickly as I can. I generally read private email every day or two. Bear in mind that if I am inundated with requests, it may take me a while to reply. I do not have the list indexed by subject, and I'm afraid that I don't really have the time to do that. If someone else wants to pour through them all (I just received digest #58 today and the archives contain about 1.7 MB of data), please feel free. RE: Immortals from Bruce Pierpont Thanks for the repost of the immortals. It looks like you've added a few. I've been waiting patiently for Kagyar, and now he's finally here. I'm definately interested in looking through the entire list when I get some spare time and making some suggestions/additions based on my previously posted list of questions and a few other ideas I have. RE: Church of Tarastia from Mischa E. Gelman Wow! Great description of the church hierarchy. I wish I had as much detail for all of the Mystaran churches. Maybe now that I'm caught up, I can actually post something useful. :) Later, >>> Sir George Anonymous <<< ************************************************************************** ** ** ** There are no Thyatians here. There are no Traladarans. There are ** ** only citizens of Karameikos. - King Stefan Karameikos, AC 1012 ** ** ** ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: al445947@academ01.cem.itesm.mx (CORTES M. RODOLFO .) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 08:09:18 -0600 Subject: [Mystara] Question. Hi again!!! my first doubt is that i dont know what to do with my PC's, We've been playing for 1 and a half years. and my problem is that i don't have experience DMing I "learned" how to play 6 months before and then i bought my FIRST QUEST set. then i jumped into KARAMEIKOS. with the FQ i DMed for the very first time. now I think that I am creative but gues I've been taking the game too fast. and in the 1 and a half years my PC's are of 2-3 levels, is this fast???? and how do I handle the history, there's a problem here to get the Mystara stuff, It's almost imposible to get adventures, books, related with Mystara here in Mexico. I'm waiting my PC's to advance to play THE MARK OF AMBER. but it's the only adventure i have!!!!!! would somebody helpe me?????? or tell me what to do???? or i just keep on making Adventures by myself? THANKS. Rodolfo Cortes Marroquin. al445947@academ01.cem.itesm.mx ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:24:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Replies to Digests #40-58 > RE: Product list info request from Mischa E. Gelman > > You were looking for info in several products (B7, B9, B11, B12, X11, HWR1, HWA1, HWA2, > HWA3, HWQ1, and the entire GAZ series). What exactly did you want to know? Descriptions of each product- where they take plus, what the plot is for the modules, etc, etc Never underestimate the stupidity of Starscream -Blitzwing ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 11:47:20 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hollow Worlds and asteroids. WARNING : This message will get into my personal philosophies on a number of tangents, in adittion to the game-related material. I'll make a note of it when I get into philosopy instead of Gaming, so's y'all who aren't interested can skip it. On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Nightshade wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, Chris Davies wrote: > > Far as I could see, Ixion was ordering Rad to 'stop messing with that > > dangerous thing that's draining MY power, and stop anyone else from doing > > it either. That thing wasn't meant for us to use or understand in the > > first place, so I will use my position to stop and supress any later > > research too." How else will you explain how surprised and hurt he was > > when Rafiel refused to stop investigating the Radiance ? > > He got upset because it was bad enough for one immortal to ignore > the eternal tradition of disobedience, but two was something very > troublesome. Wasn't Valerias that says immediately after that that > she and Ixion would crush "this rebellion"? I'm assuming you meant 'obedience here, but.. It wasn't that some immortals were refusing that had him hurt and surprised, it was that Rafiel in particular was the one to refuse. He expected opposition. But not from Rafiel, an old and respected colleague. And Energy is all about trying new things, attemting new ways, meddling with things we don't understand because if we stuck to what we knew only, we'd never get anything done. (" We're wizards ! We're supposed to meddle with the unknown !", shouted Ridcully. "If we stuck to meddling with the _known_ we''d never get anywhere !" -Terry Pratchett, Intersting Times (paraphrased)) That's the rules the Sphere of energy lives by. Ixion is the Chief Hierarch, and as such the embodiment of his Sphere. Did I miss anything here ? Why is Ixion acting like Terra ( Keep things stable ! No Change ! No change ! Why ? We do it that way because we've always done it that way - don't you go about thinking up easier ways to do it or I'll thump you one for defying tradition) of the Sphere of Matter ? I'd buy Terra sponsoring the WoTI, by the way. Holy Wars to prevent changes seems right up her alley. > But they do know what science is like, or at least what this > science is like, they've had three encounters with it before; the FSS > Beagle/Temple of the Frog, Blackmoor, and the Broken Lands > Devastation. The Immortals fear the destructive capabilities of the > alien technology and now that someone has bastardized it with magic > (making it techno-magic) it could only get worse. The Doomsday > Weapon was a very good exampleof why Ixion got upset. Umm, well, considering that they more or less know that this is an enigma left them by the actual makers of the Universe and themselves, the Old Ones, doesn't it behoove them to see what their makers wanted to tell them with this ? And, Imho, the Doomsday Weapon was a VERY BAD example of this- out of the game, I find the whole think ridiculous ( What, you mean the ENTIRE CONTINENT was actually magical, and all these wizards never noticed until Rad blew it and drined the magic out of it ?), and in the game - the friggin' doomsday weapon was a last-ditch desperation ploy by Rad when driven to the brink of destruction by Ixion. From here on we can go into circular argumentation of divination on the part of Ixion, but the circle has to start somewhere, and the whole friggin war and Weapon is Ixion's fault. On the other hand, yeah, I can see where you're coming from. They have had some bad experiences with spectacular techno-disasters - but Blacmoor was stable for a thousand years prior to blowing itself up. There seems no special reason to fear anything short of a nuclear reactor (Which is why Rafiel and his Shadow Elves had BETTER be on their toes...) > As for your opinion of new agers vis a vis science, you at least > have to admit that the past moral stance of "science for science > stake" has brought us pretty close to the edge on more than one > front. > WARNING: You are entering the Ranting Zone ! No, I don't see your point at al. Science is about knowledge, true - but it's passive. Science made two nuclear bombs. Engineers mass-produced them. Scientists noticed that small bugs tended to die when exposed to the grams of DDT they synthezised. Engineers made it by the ton. Scientists thought you could find naphta below the surface of the earth. Engineers made oil rigs. Scientists though safety measures would be a good idea. Engineers scoffed at the idea until the first uncontrolled blowout. Science for the sake of knowledge is value-neutral. Its the application, whic is an ENGINEERING issue, not a science issue, that is the problem. Of course, you can say that there are areas of knowledge that you *think* can only be used for nasty purposes, but the practical application of the knowledge garnered is STILL up to the engineers needed to implement it. Which is why I'm still campaigning for ethics classes at the engineering college I'm attending, and why I'm bothered by the lack of concern shown by my fellow professionals-in-training. Because if you don't think about this issue while you're in college and traing for a job in engineering, it's going to hit you in your face when you get out of college and have a job. It's a little late to start thinking of the ethics of working for a particular company AFTER you've been hired and are depending on the income from your job. And while a lot of us here DO think about these issues - I will *not* vouch for that being the general case. Which is why the fallacy of science (knowledge) versus applicadion(engineering) continues to annoy me. Because everybody' here keeps coming back to thinking of science as the culprit and the engineering as value-neutral when it's the other way around. All this with a very big IMO, of course. ------------------------------ From: "Peter Donald" Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:11:11 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara languages v 1.2 > >In our campaign Glantrians speak Glantrian, which has strong roots > >in Flaemish and a couple of Elvish dialects, plus a *lot* of loan > >words from various other languages. > *I don't remember who posted this* Me. I'll note as an aside to my original message that we've tweaked Glantrian history quite a bit, most notably by adding a large elven presence (a third offshoot of the elven migrants who eventually became the Shadowelves and Schattenalfen), and one of the results of a largish long-lived population has been to minimize linguistic drift over the years. One last note - IOC Flaemish and Alphatian come from a common root stock and are still close enough to be more or less mutually understandable (in the same way that, for example, French, Spanish and Italian are [I speak fluent Spanish and pretty good French, and I can usually piece out the meaning of written Italian or Italian spoken slowly]). ------------------------------ From: kaelin@natural.com (Robert Kaelin) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:13:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hollow Worlds and asteroids. > And Energy is all about trying new things, attemting new ways, >meddling with things we don't understand because if we stuck to what we >knew only, we'd never get anything done. > (" We're wizards ! We're supposed to meddle with the unknown !", >shouted Ridcully. "If we stuck to meddling with the _known_ we''d never >get anywhere !" -Terry Pratchett, Intersting Times (paraphrased)) > That's the rules the Sphere of energy lives by. Ixion is the Chief >Hierarch, and as such the embodiment of his Sphere. Did I miss anything >here ? Why is Ixion acting like Terra ( Keep things stable ! No Change ! >No change ! Why ? We do it that way because we've always done it that >way - don't you go about thinking up easier ways to do it or I'll thump >you one for defying tradition) of the Sphere of Matter ? It's not "change" Ixion is against. It's the complete and total destruction of his sphere on a world in the prime material plane that he's worried about. Rad encourages mortals to use the radiance, this in turn drains magic from ALL of Mystara. You really think Ixion would stand by and cheer while 9 or so mortals and 1 immortal destroy all traces of Energy (and hence magic) from the entire world of Mystara? I don't know why some of you think WotI is about change, it's really much simpler. It's about one immortal who's so wrapped up in his own research that he's willing to destroy the balance of the entire world (Rad) and the leader of the immortals of Energy (who I'd have to imagine would be against watching his sphere get flushed down the universal toilet.) > And, Imho, the Doomsday Weapon was a VERY BAD example of this- out of >the game, I find the whole think ridiculous ( What, you mean the ENTIRE >CONTINENT was actually magical, and all these wizards never noticed until >Rad blew it and drined the magic out of it ?), and in the game - the >friggin' doomsday weapon was a last-ditch desperation ploy by Rad when >driven to the brink of destruction by Ixion. From here on we can go into >circular argumentation of divination on the part of Ixion, but the circle >has to start somewhere, and the whole friggin war and Weapon is Ixion's >fault. Again, you must be misinformed. The continent wasn't magical. The doomsday machine worked as follows.: (or at least it should have) 1) It sucked all mortal magic out of it's area of affect. 2) It allows the user (Rad) to channel that magic into storms and other natural disasters wherever they desire. The problem was Rad never really figured out the whole 2) part. I suppose the fact that the nucleus was enhanced by an Old One put it beyond even an immortals' power to control completely. The continent was destroyed because a battle that occurs in the climax of WotI features Rad (drawing energy directly from the radiance) vs. Ixion while a group of mortals and Bedenaker(sic) try to "fix" the Nucleus. All of this takes place in the same cavern as the actual nucleus, the surge of power (particulalry when the Old One shows up and sucks Rad into the Nucleus) overloads it and activates the doomsday weapon (which just happened to be pointed at Alphatia). If you look at the immortals rules and see what they're capable of (creating suns, moving planes, creating races) I really don't understand why simply destroying a continent is such a leap of power. Again, it's not that complicated. The war was Rad's fault, he was willing to destroy his own sphere, the balance of the Prime plane, magic as it's known on Mystra, and the order established by the Immortals from the beginning of Immortal records for his own quest to become an Old One via the nucleus. I think "Mark of Amber" makes it relatively clear that at least the Old Ones blame Rad for the war (which is why they take away his immortal standing and punish him.) Or do you think the Old Ones are afraid of change as well? :-) - -Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence, Inc. E-mail: Kaelin@natural.com 725 Concord Ave. Phone: (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge, Ma. 02138 WWW: www.natural.com USA - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #59 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #60 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 7 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 060 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:12:08 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] winmail.dat? - ---------- From: Sir George Anonymous[SMTP:lcdavis@mailbox.syr.edu] Sent: Monday, February 05, 1996 1:56 PM To: Mystara Mailing List Subject: [Mystara] MML Replies to Digests #40-58 >RE: Gibberish from various people > >Recently, several postings of gibberish have appeared on the mailing list. >For example files titled >"arik.txt" and "winmail.dat" (is that your .sig file Bruce?) were encoded >and posted. Not that I'm aware of. I just recently switched mail programs (using MS Exchange now) so it might be something it adds, all my messages look fine to me, but then I'm reading them in the same program I send them from. If its something added by exchange its probably nothing important. | ] | ] | ]ruce | ierpont begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(AH5`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &``P!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```#\`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!M>7-T87)A+6Q :6\N M8V]M`%--5% `;7ES=&%R82UL0&EO+F-O;0``'@`", $````%````4TU44 `` M```>``,P`0```!$```!M>7-T87)A+6Q :6\N8V]M``````,`%0P!`````P#^ M#P8````>``$P`0```!,````G;7ES=&%R82UL0&EO+F-O;2<```(!"S !```` M%@```%--5% Z35E35$%202U,0$E/+D-/30````,``#D`````"P! .@$````" M`?8/`0````0````````#T"P!"( '`!@```!)4$TN36EC7-T87)A72!W:6YM86EL+F1A=#\`4 @!!8 # M``X```#,!P(`!@`0``P`" `"``$!`2" `P`.````S <"``8`$ `&`"@``@`; M`0$)@ $`(0```$,T0T0Y,3$T.48V,$-&,3$Y0C(Q-#0T-34S-30P,# P`-T& M`0.0!@#H! ``$@````L`(P```````P`F```````+`"D```````,`-@`````` M0 `Y`( P4,;7]+H!'@!P``$````7````6TUY# $` M```%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!H```!B<&EE)S=&5M`H,S=P+D M!Q,"@'T*@ C/"=D[\18/,C4U`H *@0VQ"V#@;F=@R")08`:07 1V4%L&=E'12P;@(@!L (8'-;4P!-5% Z M;&-D83IV! ! `, #$ ;@>"Z02PA@&5BE%)% M-6!'B&EB8@9QDB) X6LN#-!T(DJPURL04_ #\&XETBXE<%2!3B@$`$MQ59 @>0AA M(&D%8$22= L&&.=TL!29%;\4D@:B30WP5 %A!(%$B `_!T$7!+(;\E MTD% `V )P$_ !" H)-#S,<(%X45X$7$9$"1 )'"Z=U>PFM0$6XD M0#BA!X K4&+^=5X2"?!> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:56:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara languages v 1.2 Well, it seems as if there are at least two distinct camps regarding the Glantrian language. One group bases the language around Flaemish, and the other around Thyatian. I've followed the entire discussion, and am aware of all the reasoning on both sides. But the Thyatian settlers of Glantri would have had to speak something, and I doubt it would have been Flaemish. In fact, who but the Flaems would have? The elves spoke their own languages, the Boldavians spoke Traladaran, no doubt, the d'Ambervilles and the highlanders medieval French and Scots Gaelic, respectively, Aendyr's house Alphatian, Caurenze Thyatian, and Aalban either Thyatian or Alphatian. The people from Krondahar, finally, would have no doubt spoken Ethangarian. So what would the Glantrian common tongue be based upon? Considering that the Flaems were suffering a drastic decrease in prominence and becoming quickly outnumbered by other settlers; and that Alexander Glantri (a Thyatian) wrested independance from Alphatia and forged the government of the Principalities, the prototypical Glantrian tongue would have logically been Thyatian. This would have rapidly evolved (given the nation's other eight official languages) to a form of Thyatian very distinct from the mother tongue. I like to think of Thyatian as the Latin that Glantrian, Darokinian, (and someday Karameikan) will be the "Romance" (Thyatiance?) languages to. Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: Berg Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:05:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara languages v 1.2 I don't remember where I read it, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that Thonian was sort of the 'common tongue' of Mystara... ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 22:31:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara languages v 1.2 On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, Berg wrote: > I don't remember where I read it, but I seem to recall reading > somewhere that Thonian was sort of the 'common tongue' of Mystara... > Yes, in DA1 on the signpost of the Comeback Inn. In my own campaign, descendants of the Thonian Empire founded the Thyatian. Hence my predilection for basing other countries' languages on Thyatian (like Glantri) Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: Berg Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:18:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara languages v 1.2 Yeah, that was where it was...DA1 was a fun adventure, although it did cause problems for milennia to come with my campaign... It's the main reason the Mystara PBEM I'm running is as different from TSR's Mystara as it is. :) ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 08:05:29 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hollow Worlds and asteroids. OH, Mr R.Kaelin allready noted two points I was going to post too... But here is two more... > I'd buy Terra sponsoring the WoTI, by the way. Holy Wars to prevent > changes seems right up her alley. NO WAY! wars dont prevent changes, they make them. And Terra is an old enough immortal to know that. She would not sponsor the war. /That is, not our Terra anyway, yours might... No, Terra is a peaceloving immortal by all means, mother Earth and everything, She would oppose a war that would surely be the death of many a man and bunny. > No, I don't see your point at al. Science is about knowledge, true - but > it's passive. Science made two nuclear bombs. Engineers mass-produced them. > Scientists noticed that small bugs tended to die when exposed to the > grams of DDT they synthezised. Engineers made it by the ton. > Scientists thought you could find naphta below the surface of the > earth. Engineers made oil rigs. > Scientists though safety measures would be a good idea. Engineers > scoffed at the idea until the first uncontrolled blowout. So, if you gave a child an machinegun and he kild a tenfold peoples, it would be the 3 years old boys fault, right? Pasi A student of Automation Engineering :) - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: al445947@academ01.cem.itesm.mx (CORTES M. RODOLFO .) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 08:06:27 -0600 Subject: [Mystara] ThanX to all I like the soundo of that M. Shaffer!!!!! I'll do it. because my adventures now are not very related with the Mystara History, My PC's know Terari, but that's it, dont wanna go further in getting involved with Royalty... well a baron or something like that... they know Aleena Halaran,but that is because the second adventure in the set does say that. Thanks to all and who reply my question further, I mean who further answer me...(still learning english!!!) ok BYE to all and good adventures!!!!!! Rodolfo. ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:53:52 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara languages v 1.2 On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, Berg wrote: > Yeah, that was where it was...DA1 was a fun adventure, although it > did cause problems for milennia to come with my campaign... > Hmm..could someone give a description of the plot in this adventure? also any new info mentioned in that module would be appreciated Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 11:30:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara languages v 1.2 > > Yeah, that was where it was...DA1 was a fun adventure, although it > > did cause problems for milennia to come with my campaign... > > > Hmm..could someone give a description of the plot in this adventure? > also any new info mentioned in that module would be appreciated OK. Blackmoor- 3000 yrs or so in the past, got it?(4000 by some opinions, 5000 by some?). Assuming the plot goes as planned? The PCs hear of ancient Blackmooran gold someone found in the desert. They go to check it out and get sent back in time. They are arrested because the king is missing. He has been kidnapped by Thonian agents who traveled him forwards in time(but pre-modern). The PCs are hired to go and find and rescue the king. They find the agents, and go with them to the king's prison, wherupon the agents and some hobgoblins get into the one real battle of the game. Hopefully, the king is rescued. The PCs are now free to stay in Blackmoor, which is described in the DA series and whose major personalities are mostly in DA1. DA2 and DA3 are futuristic- laser-shooting aliens and DA2 is hack-n-slash. DA3 is really up to the Dm and players-great RP or great hacking and slashing. DA4-????????????????????????????? Never underestimate the stupidity of Starscream -Blitzwing ------------------------------ From: Michael S Lewis Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 11:52:01 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] This science debate (was: Hollow Worlds and asteroids.) [chop] This is the only time I'll enter into this discussion here, as it does fall rather outside the scope of the mailing list. However, I would be happy to talk about this via e-mail, as it is a subject I have struggled with, and continue to struggle with, myself. > > No, I don't see your point at al. Science is about knowledge, true - but > > it's passive. Science made two nuclear bombs. Engineers mass-produced them. > > Scientists noticed that small bugs tended to die when exposed to the > > grams of DDT they synthezised. Engineers made it by the ton. > > Scientists thought you could find naphta below the surface of the > > earth. Engineers made oil rigs. > > Scientists though safety measures would be a good idea. Engineers > > scoffed at the idea until the first uncontrolled blowout. > So, if you gave a child an machinegun and he kild a tenfold peoples, > it would be the 3 years old boys fault, right? > In this case, it would be the fault of whoever is responsible for that boy, and whoever is responsible for that gun. And, yes, also the fault of the 3-year old boy. My godson is three, and he certainly knows what a gun is, what death is, and that one can lead to the other, irrevocably. But I understand the point you're making. I just don't agree with it. The people who invented firearms are in no way responsible for where their invention has gone since. Someone a long time ago said "Hey, if we ignite this powder and produce this chemical reaction, the expanding gases are enough to propel a little piece of metal at high velocities!" And a gun was formed. They may even have done this with the idea that it would be used offensively. But they certainly did not intend armor-piercing bullets or assault rifles. That was where the invention went, but not at the fault of the scientist who created it. Now that I've argued that point slightly, I want to address the earlier point about the nuclear weapons. If you haven't seen the movie "Fat Man and Little Boy", it's a fairly accurate version of the making of the first bombs. It's all dramatized for a mass audience, but the facts remain intact. What you'll see here is this exact discussion. The scientists who created these bombs did so in the fervor of scientific discovery, but eventually realized that what they had done was kill thousands and thousands of people. So yes, it's true that "Science made two nuclear bombs. Engineers mass-produced them", but the scientists who made those first two are not exactly innocent of the consequences of nuclear build-up. (By the way, I am not basing my arguments solely on a Hollywood fictionalized movie. I just use it as something that should be readily available to most people that several may already have seen.) Well, I don't want to go on at too much length (too late!) about this, and I see that I have disagreed with both sides in this debate, and probably alienated NRA members in the bargain. So I'll wrap up here. All of this is solely my opinion, not intended to disprove anyone else's opinions, just intended to enter into a friendly, open debate. And on a Mystara note, I finally found Champions of Mystara and Wrath of the Immortals last night. Once I get done wading through all this material, I'll post my opinions and what I may or may not incorporate into my world. Take care! - -- Michael Lewis mslewis@iastate.edu ------------------------------ From: Sir George Anonymous Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:14:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Replies to MML Digest #59 Hi all, Rather than wait for three weeks, I had a few extra minutes to reply to a couple of current posts. >From: al445947@academ01.cem.itesm.mx (CORTES M. RODOLFO .) > > >my first doubt is that i dont know what to do with my PC's, We've been >playing >for 1 and a half years. and my problem is that i don't have experience >DMing >I "learned" how to play 6 months before and then i bought my FIRST >QUEST set. >then i jumped into KARAMEIKOS. with the FQ i DMed for the very first time. >now I think that I am creative but gues I've been taking the game too fast. >and in the 1 and a half years my PC's are of 2-3 levels, is this fast???? >and how do I handle the history, there's a problem here to get the Mystara >stuff, It's almost imposible to get adventures, books, related with Mystara >here in Mexico. >I'm waiting my PC's to advance to play THE MARK OF AMBER. but it's the >only >adventure i have!!!!!! >would somebody helpe me?????? or tell me what to do???? >or i just keep on making Adventures by myself? Is the problem getting Mystara accessories, or AD&D/D&D accessories in general? If you can get other AD&D/D&D adventures, almost anything can be made to fit into your campaign. Can you find any of the old, out of print stuff? If you can get ahold of any of the GAZ accessories, they might be able to help. They're set in the year AC1000, but are crammed full of adventure ideas. It might be a good idea to start your campaign in an earlier time period and work forward to AC1013 when the Kingdom of Karameikos boxed set takes place. The Wrath of the Immortals boxed set details a major war in the known world and covers the time period from AC1004 to AC1009. The three Poor Wizard's Almanacs cover AC1010, AC1011, and AC1012 respectively. They each have a list of daily events that take place during those years, as well as brief descriptions of the major countries of Mystara and a few other goodies. If you can find the compilation of the early B series of adventures B1-9 "In Search of Adventure", there is a campaign outlined taking place in Karameikos. Also B10 "Night's Dark Terror" is a great medium length adventure. As far as how fast to advance your player characters, there is no hard and fast rule. My current campaign has been going on for four years now and my highest level PC's are eighth level. We try to play once a month, but that doesn't always work out. My players seem to be happy with the progress they are making, and so that works well for us. Good Luck. If you need any other help, feel free to ask. >From: Mischa E Gelman > >> You were looking for info in several products (B7, B9, B11, B12, X11, >>HWR1, HWA1, HWA2, >>HWA3, HWQ1, and the entire GAZ series). What exactly did you want to >>know? > >Descriptions of each product- where they take plus, what the plot is for >the modules, etc, etc I'll see what I can do for you. Later, >>> Sir George Anonymous <<< ************************************************************************** ** ** ** There are no Thyatians here. There are no Traladarans. There are ** ** only citizens of Karameikos. - King Stefan Karameikos, AC 1012 ** ** ** ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 19:29:24 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > OK. Blackmoor- 3000 yrs or so in the past, got it?(4000 by some > opinions, 5000 by some?). > > Assuming the plot goes as planned? > The PCs hear of ancient Blackmooran gold someone found in the desert. > They go to check it out and get sent back in time. > They are arrested because the king is missing. > He has been kidnapped by Thonian agents who traveled him forwards in > time(but pre-modern). Hmm..tell me more about these thonians........ > The PCs are hired to go and find and rescue the king. > They find the agents, and go with them to the king's prison, wherupon the > agents and some hobgoblins get into the one real battle of the game. > Hopefully, the king is rescued. Hobgoblins?..I thought there were only Beastmen at the time... > > The PCs are now free to stay in Blackmoor, which is described in the DA > series and whose major personalities are mostly in DA1. DA2 and DA3 are > futuristic- laser-shooting aliens and DA2 is hack-n-slash. DA3 is really > up to the Dm and players-great RP or great hacking and slashing. > DA4-????????????????????????????? Hmm..id really like more info on Blackmore too... I know the basics, but some details would be nice. BTW: what aliens? > Never underestimate the stupidity of Starscream huh? Haavard Faanes. ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 14:19:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > Hobgoblins?..I thought there were only Beastmen at the time... I don't think they had a timeline of humanoid evolution in mind when the DA series was written. If you think Beastmen should have been there instead of Hobgoblins, they could be replaced. I wouldn't give it too much thought. > > The PCs are now free to stay in Blackmoor, which is described in the DA > > series and whose major personalities are mostly in DA1. DA2 and DA3 are > > futuristic- laser-shooting aliens and DA2 is hack-n-slash. DA3 is really > > up to the Dm and players-great RP or great hacking and slashing. > > DA4-????????????????????????????? DA4 is The Duchy of Ten. In this adventure, the Afridhi, who have conquered The Duchy of Ten and have made strong but failed attempts at invading Blackmoor, are constructing the vessel for their Immortal (Zugzul)'s artifact, The Well of Souls. There is a prophecy that the well can be unmade only by the hands of those as yet unborn, so that it seems hopeless, but the PCs, being from the future, qualify, and are hired to sneak into the Duchy and sabotage the Well, which allowed to be completed would allow the Afridhi to eventually conquer the Northlands, if not the world. > Hmm..id really like more info on Blackmore too... > I know the basics, but some details would be nice. > BTW: what aliens? This has been discussed before (the aliens). Maybe someone can email interested parties previous posts about it. Better yet--is it in any FAQ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ David "Azure" Leland ~~~ azure@cs.oberlin.edu ~~ ~~ Creative Writing, Cognitive Science ~~~ phone/fax: (216) 775-5582 ~~ ~~ Oberlin College ~~~ http://www.oberlin.edu/~dleland ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: Berg Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:14:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara languages v 1.2 Well, I didn't have access to DA2-DA4 when I ran my group through Blackmoor, but I did have a fair idea of what it was like based on descriptions in DA1 and elsewhere. So anyway, the PCs not only consistently won their battles, they also decided to stay and try to avert the Rain of Fire. By the time it rolled around, they were all in the 29-36 level range. They were only about half successful, but it was enough to save the city, as well as SOME of the population. They realized (finally) what kind of havoc they could cause with their own history if they stayed, so they emigrated (Spelljammer) to another planet with the survivors of Blackmoor. For the next 4,000 years or so of Empire-building, Mystara was off-limits for fear of contaminating history. Since the PCs went back in time in 1001 AC, the ban on contact was lifted in 1002 AC...my current campaign is set in 1025 AC. :) ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 22:18:55 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Question. At 08.09 06/02/96 -0600, you wrote: > >Hi again!!! > >my first doubt is that i dont know what to do with my PC's, We've been playing >for 1 and a half years. and my problem is that i don't have experience DMing Well, I never played RPG before DMing.... There was a friend of mine who had a D&D basic set, knew the rules but never played. He asked me if I wanted to be his DM. I read the rules, then we found other 2 boys, told them how to play and started playing. >I "learned" how to play 6 months before and then i bought my FIRST QUEST set. >then i jumped into KARAMEIKOS. with the FQ i DMed for the very first time. >now I think that I am creative but gues I've been taking the game too fast. >and in the 1 and a half years my PC's are of 2-3 levels, is this fast???? Fast ? IMO you shouldn't consider real time, but game time: how many days (months ?, years ?) passed in game time since your PC's started adventuring ? That's why I don't like adventures in dungeons: too much XP in too short a time and too much evenings spent gaming without a significant advancement in game days. >and how do I handle the history, there's a problem here to get the Mystara >stuff, It's almost imposible to get adventures, books, related with Mystara >here in Mexico. Try ordering it by mail from Zocchi in the USA. I'll send you the address as soon as I find it. Maybe it is a bit expensive and I hope the Mexican postal service is improved. I'm still waiting for the postcards I mailed in Mexico City in 1994.... >I'm waiting my PC's to advance to play THE MARK OF AMBER. but it's the only >adventure i have!!!!!! >would somebody helpe me?????? or tell me what to do???? >or i just keep on making Adventures by myself? Keep on making adventures by yourself, you can tailor them better to your PC's. I used TSR adventures only once (X1) and... well better forgetting of those gamig sessions. BTW: try avoiding those ????? and !!!!. One is enough. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 22:19:26 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hollow Worlds and asteroids. At 08.05 07/02/96 +0200, you wrote: >> No, I don't see your point at al. Science is about knowledge, true - but >> it's passive. Science made two nuclear bombs. Engineers mass-produced them. >> Scientists noticed that small bugs tended to die when exposed to the >> grams of DDT they synthezised. Engineers made it by the ton. >> Scientists thought you could find naphta below the surface of the >> earth. Engineers made oil rigs. >> Scientists though safety measures would be a good idea. Engineers >> scoffed at the idea until the first uncontrolled blowout. >So, if you gave a child an machinegun and he kild a tenfold peoples, >it would be the 3 years old boys fault, right? > >Pasi >A student of Automation Engineering :) > No, maybe is the enginner's fault... :-) A student of Aeronautics Emginnering. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #60 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #61 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Friday, 9 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 061 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 22:19:20 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Glantrian language At 21.56 06/02/96 -0500, you wrote: > > Well, it seems as if there are at least two distinct camps >regarding the Glantrian language. One group bases the language around >Flaemish, and the other around Thyatian. > [snip] Ok, I agree with you on Flaemish. This cannot logically be the language spoken in Glantri. But what about Chris Davies issue on Glantrian as a technical language for the students in the school of magic and every principality having its own tongue ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 22:53:53 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] This science debate (was: Hollow Worlds and asteroids.) At 11.52 07/02/96 CST, you wrote: > >[chop] > >This is the only time I'll enter into this discussion here, as it does fall >rather outside the scope of the mailing list. However, I would be happy to >talk about this via e-mail, as it is a subject I have struggled with, and >continue to struggle with, myself. I would be interested too. If you talk about this via e-mail include me in your postings. > >> > No, I don't see your point at al. Science is about knowledge, true - but >> > it's passive. Science made two nuclear bombs. Engineers mass-produced them. >> > Scientists noticed that small bugs tended to die when exposed to the >> > grams of DDT they synthezised. Engineers made it by the ton. >> > Scientists thought you could find naphta below the surface of the >> > earth. Engineers made oil rigs. >> > Scientists though safety measures would be a good idea. Engineers >> > scoffed at the idea until the first uncontrolled blowout. >> So, if you gave a child an machinegun and he kild a tenfold peoples, >> it would be the 3 years old boys fault, right? >> > >In this case, it would be the fault of whoever is responsible for that boy, and >whoever is responsible for that gun. And, yes, also the fault of the 3-year old boy. >My godson is three, and he certainly knows what a gun is, what death is, and that one >can lead to the other, irrevocably. But I understand the point you're making. I just >don't agree with it. The people who invented firearms are in no way responsible for >where their invention has gone since. > >Someone a long time ago said "Hey, if we ignite this powder and produce this chemical >reaction, the expanding gases are enough to propel a little piece of metal at high >velocities!" And a gun was formed. They may even have done this with the idea that it >would be used offensively. But they certainly did not intend armor-piercing bullets >or assault rifles. That was where the invention went, but not at the fault of the >scientist who created it. Yes, I agree with you. IMO the fault is (almost) always of the one who uses a thing, not of the one who discovers it. When an aircraft crashes it could be the pilot's fault, the control tower's fault or the fault of whoever is responsible of the aircraft's servicing, but surely is not the fault of Prandtl, the Wright's brothers or Bernoulli. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr ************** ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 11:16:00 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] This science debate On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > >> > No, I don't see your point at al. Science is about knowledge, true - but > >> > it's passive. Science made two nuclear bombs. Engineers mass-produced them. > >> > Scientists noticed that small bugs tended to die when exposed to the > >> > grams of DDT they synthezised. Engineers made it by the ton. > >> > Scientists thought you could find naphta below the surface of the > >> > earth. Engineers made oil rigs. > >> > Scientists though safety measures would be a good idea. Engineers > >> > scoffed at the idea until the first uncontrolled blowout. > >> So, if you gave a child an machinegun and he kild a tenfold peoples, > >> it would be the 3 years old boys fault, right? > >Someone a long time ago said "Hey, if we ignite this powder and produce > this chemical >reaction, the expanding gases are enough to propel a little > piece of metal at high >velocities!" And a gun was formed. They may even > have done this with the idea that it >would be used offensively. But they > certainly did not intend armor-piercing bullets >or assault rifles. That was > where the invention went, but not at the fault of the >scientist who created it. > > Yes, I agree with you. IMO the fault is (almost) always of the one who uses > a thing, not of the one who discovers it. When an aircraft crashes it could > be the pilot's fault, the control tower's fault or the fault of whoever is > responsible of the aircraft's servicing, but surely is not the fault of > Prandtl, the Wright's brothers or Bernoulli. > This discussion is about whether scientists are responsible for their work, and what it is used to achieve. I would like to remind you of this years Nobel peace prize. Scientists are responsible for what they do. period. :) Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 08:54:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] This science debate Could this please be moved to email among the participants? Thank you. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ David "Azure" Leland ~~~ azure@cs.oberlin.edu ~~ ~~ Creative Writing, Cognitive Science ~~~ phone/fax: (216) 775-5582 ~~ ~~ Oberlin College ~~~ http://www.oberlin.edu/~dleland ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 06:43:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] This science debate: An End On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > This discussion is about whether scientists are responsible for their > work, and what it is used to achieve. > I would like to remind you of this years Nobel peace prize. > Scientists are responsible for what they do. period. :) Yes, but it is being done on a list about Mystara. This is the first time I have ever done this, but I really must step in and ask that this thread die. Further discussion should be taken to private e-mail. Thank you. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:51:24 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Master's War. On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, D.J. Sahlas wrote: > > Cynidicea and Rockhome were the next to declare their allegiance, > with Ethangar and Ylaruam being kept out of the war by the efforts of > various PCs. When the Northern Reaches joined, however, a concatenation > of events ensued which led to first Ethangar, then Ylaruam, attacking the > allies. > > still essentially neutral. Darokin is beset from the west by the nomads, > north by the Broken Lands, and east by the Ylari. The tiny kingdom of > Cynidicea (more info available on how I developed this from B4) is > assisting in any way it can, but the dwarves are kept from sending much > aid by attacks from the Ethangari and Ylari. The Glantrians have > cynicedia. Yes i am interested in how you developed it from b4. perhaps this is sth for our new almanac also: how does Ylaruam react to this nation, which i believe lies in the alasian desert somewhere (where btw?) Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 16:48:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Glantrian language On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > Ok, I agree with you on Flaemish. This cannot logically be the language > spoken in Glantri. But what about Chris Davies issue on Glantrian as a > technical language for the students in the school of magic and every > principality having its own tongue ? 1) A technical language already exists, it's called "magic" as in the read magic spell. My speculation is that it would be fundamental and universally understood by human MUs (much like math and music in our own world). 2) Each principality essentially DOES have it's own language (see my previous post). "Glantrian" (as based on Thyatian originally) is the common and legal tongue in the Principalities IMO. The legal aspect especially makes sense given Alexander Glantri's role in uniting the Principalities. As a common tongue, it's evolution would date back to Alexander's time, and has been enriched by the other 8 languages of Glantri to the point that it can no longer truly be considered Thyatian. Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 22:42:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Stars, constellations, horoscopes (Just to get a new topic other than languages :) ) In the Almanacs' horoscopes section, there are comments about "The star of the Pegasus being in the House of the Warrior" and suchlike. In the module CM7(?) Tree of Life, there's a starchart with 12 constellations remarkably similar to those 12 from the Almanac.. Does anybody have a complete-ish description of the Mystaran sky? Or at least a better description of the constellations? - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 06:28:16 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mystara] Fantasy Ethics and religion. While my aside about the ethics of science seems to have sparked an inordinate amount of off-topic posts (sorry about that - anyone who wishes to participte in a private email conversation about it, email me and I'll cc you on future mails), it got me to thinking about the ethics of fantasy characters, and how it applies to their religion. Obviously, in a world like Mystara where justice is often what you can carve for yourself at swordpoint, there must be a lot of 'Might makes right'-philosophies permeating societies. How does that square with the way most PC's seem to apply 20eth century morals and ethical standards to judge the actions of themselvs and others ? How does that affect what a Lawful society considers lawful ? Amongst other things - do they recognize blood feud, do they require weregild be paid ? If so, how much ? I have no answers to this, as the Mystaran cultures are diverse nough to rate an answer a piece - but how does the concept of Justice for All square with the double-standards codified in the laws of Glantri and Alphatia, where the law makes it clear that there are two classes of human beings, one with intrisinct worth, and one without ? On another note - Boryis Sergeinov, Traldar hero and all-around good guy follower of Halav, member of the church of Traldara, is about to make himself a heretic of a kind. He rules a stretch of coastline for Ericall of Norwold - and the fishermen and peasants hold to the belief of two sea-deities. Manwara, the old man of the sea is venerated (and fearfully placated) for his control over sea and weather, and Tethys, the White Lady, (local deity, nicked from celtic mythology) venerated for being the Lady of Bounty, she who rules the sea creatures. Now Boryis is a reasonable fellow, but he wants to teach his people about the gods that he follows - so he's about to instruct the priests (level 3) that he recruited from Karameikos to adjust the pantheon slighly, to include Manwara and Tethys in the Church of Traldara doctrine. Hmm. Obviously, this is a radical departure from doctrine, which states that it's okay with other immortals, they do exist - but you don't have to go around believing in them just because they're there. What should I do ? Direct action by the priests is out of the question - they'll go along because Boryis is rather overwhelming in person( Level 21 fighter, charisma 12, leadership 13). But what will the Mother Church think - and what will his comrade-in-arms, Sutrulv Surdeig (Level 22 cleric, charisma 15, leadership 16) say and do ? Surdeig is named Arch-bishop of Norwold by the patriarch of the traldar church, and is the authority on matters of doctrine within Norwold. And he's a priest of Petra. I should clarify - he's the Archbishop for those who adhere to the Church of Traldara - there are other faiths, and other Archbishops for those... Will the traldar church be interested ? I think so. What will they do thaough ? There's a distict possibility that Surdeig will do nothing, or perhaps even go along with the plan - it's deisgned to make their rulership of the lands they hold in fealty more effective, after all. What will the Immortals think ? I don't think any of them will be particularily pleased, but would they be angry ? ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:01:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor > Hmm..tell me more about these thonians........ The Empire of Thonia- exrulers of Blackmoor-kciked out by residents recently behind King Uther. Major empire of lands covered in the DA series. Modern Thonia is a wasteland of what remains since the Blackmoor nuclear disaster. > Hobgoblins?..I thought there were only Beastmen at the time... Both sides time-travel I think. Also T$R history is known to contradict itself. > Hmm..id really like more info on Blackmore too... > I know the basics, but some details would be nice. Someone elsew probably knows this better-I think Shelby has the Judegs Guilds version of Blackmoor as well as the DA series > BTW: what aliens? The Beagle-an alien scout ship. Crashlanded in desert south of Blackmoor. Some aliens fled with St. Stephn in a mutiny and created the Temple of the Frog. The others are still in the ship, led by a paranoid commander. > > > > Never underestimate the stupidity of Starscream > huh? Transformers quote. Never underestimate the stupidity of Starscream -Blitzwing ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:29:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Master's War. On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, D.J. Sahlas wrote: > > > > still essentially neutral. Darokin is beset from the west by the nomads, > > north by the Broken Lands, and east by the Ylari. The tiny kingdom of > > Cynidicea (more info available on how I developed this from B4) is > > assisting in any way it can, but the dwarves are kept from sending much > > aid by attacks from the Ethangari and Ylari. The Glantrians have > > > cynicedia. Yes i am interested in how you developed it from b4. > perhaps this is sth for our new almanac > also: how does Ylaruam react to this nation, which i believe lies in the > alasian desert somewhere (where btw?) > > Haavard Faanes > Well, remember those further suggestions for adventures in the underground city? They made for a great campaign! And having gone from 1st or 2nd to name level, the PCs were reluctant to leave Cynidicea without firmly establishing it on it's feet again. By reading between the lines, I speculated that the original Cynidicea was a Thyatian colony in what would become the Emirates (around 425 AC was an appropriate time, I seem to recall). It was always somewhat isolationist, though, and I modelled it's growth and development after Zamora in the Hyborian Age of R.E. Howard. Of course, the events surrounding it's disappearance (I think I put that at about 825 AC) occurred after it had declared itself an independant kingdom when Thyatis was driven from the Emirates. That set the stage for it's re-emergence as a kingdom on the geopolitical scene when my PCs played out their campaign circa 1190-something (I guess that would translate into WotI 990-something). In fleshing out the underground city campaign, I introduced an artifact called "The Censor of Anemostrovylos" which was basically a souped-up censor of summoning air elementals. Anemostrovylos (Greek for "hurricane") was an incredibly powerful air elemental - perhaps a ruler of some kind on the elemental plane of air. This artifact was the means by which the new Cynidicean king Julius pushed back much of the desert sands in the immediate vicinity - and also how he reinforced his micro-nation's claim to independence to the Ylari. All in all a most satisfying campaign Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:49:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Immortals-Pana and Alexander (fwd) >Pana and Alexander >Sphere:Thought >Rank:Initiates History: > > Pana was a Milenian, but not a traditional one. She went against the >rules of her country, rare in the Hollow World, and took up arms to prove >the ability of women. She joined up with the forces of >Tarastia(Tastaria(sp?)) as a paladin-trainee. She even took disguise as >a male, under the name Epichardas, when needed, in order to further the >causes of her order. This disguise worked well for one of her stature, >as she was basically thin and of average Milenian male height. > She was able to carry on the goals of her order in these ways, >but she wanted to advance the cause of freedom in Milenia more. So she >joined together several acquaintances, whom she had met mostly in >disguise. She picked out Milenians who were not too biased and were >somewhat open-minded for when she revealed her identity. But first she >just revealed her goals: to further the cause of Tastaria in Milenia, and >as a result to strengthen the country(which she did not hate, only its >inequality). > The members of the group all joined Pana on several missions, >which went well save for the death of one of their number, a sailor named >Androus. It had been several months, on-and-off that they had been >together and Pana realized she could hide her idenitity no longer. > While some of the group disapproved of a woman going against the >country's rules and bearing arms, they decided she should not be turned >over to the authority due to her value to the country. > Years later, Pana rose due to prominence in the Milenian branch >of Tarastia. She, along with her companions, earned great recognition >from Goraldion, high priest of Milenia, for their role in destroying a >lich. Though the moment was saddened by the loss of Platas, a leader of >the organisation, it was bolstered by the conversion of Alexander, who >had fallen for both Pana and the ideals of Tarastia. Within the year, he >proposed to Pana, now a paladin of Tarastia and was married to her as well. > With her new position in a key religious organisation, the >Milenian army allowed her to go against the grain of the country and to >be a warrior. The army even formed an alliance, along with the academy >of magic and the priests of Halav and Petra, with Tarastian forces, to >attack the Valley of Night. > This attack was the highlight of Alexander and Pana's career. >While many brave soldiers of Tarastia and Milenia fell, the major evil >force in Milenia was quieted by the attack, though not totally destroyed. >After the raid, the rest of their companions left them. The griffon >rider, Alexion, retired at age 63 after the death of his 30-yr griffon in >the valley. The Milenian general with them, Kranos, left on what would >be a futile task to immortality. Kranos, a mystic who had joined after >Androus' death, also went on his way. The two paladins(Alexander having >risen to the status with the valley of night raid) returned to Pana's >hometown of Phos. > Here they decided to create a testiment to the greatness of >tastaria. They cleared out all manner of evil beings from the area, and >with grudging acceptence from the local and state governments, helped write >new,somewhat better laws to free slaves within 40 yrs and grant women >near-equality. > The group, having forged a new area of good, were already on the >path to immortality. They, along with their 12 new apprentices(including >their oldest daughter, a 16-yr old cleric of Tastaria), decided to become >the 1st people to attempt to immortality as a couple. > The other tasks took years, as they had to find two artifacts to >restore justic and to maintain it in Phos, which was becoming a unique >section of Milenia, almost seperate altogether. They were required much >more of any two testers to immortality would require seperately, but they >prevailed. Interests: > Now the two ex-paladins are still followers of Tastaria. They >watch after the city of Phos, now independent from Milenia. Any goal of >tarastia's becomes theirs and their input has been very welcome by their >patron. The two newcomers to immortality do not wish to rise above their >one-time sponsor, and wish to follow her forever, but she wishes for them >to create more of their own missions and goals so as to make the three an >equal alliance for justice. Symbol: Alexander and Pana's symbol is a short sword over a hangman's noose Allies:Tarastia is still the major ally of these two initiates. Halav and Petra respect them for the duty to Milenia and their elimination of Zargos, but these immortals also dislike the revolutionary aspects of the Tarasita/Alexander/Pana agenda. Still, they are more ally than enemy. Enemies:Zargos/Night is obviously their #1 opponent, though Jammaradu also dislikes them. Most of the "evil" deities of Milenia would tend to be their opposition-though some "good" and "neutral" deities dislike their interference with Phos. Followers:None yet. The higher members of the Milenian Church of Tarastia all know of their immortality, as do many citizens of Phos. They are still too new though to establish their ownb faith and right now all followers of Tarastia are considered minor followers of theirs and are watched over by these two. Stats: Pana Alexander Alignment L L Class(mortal form) Paladin level 36-neither is spell-casting THAC0 2 2 Immortal THAC0 8 8 HD 15 15 HP Immortal 75 75 HP Mortal 91 95 AC Immortal 0 0 AC Mortal -7 -1 Armor Mortal DispCloak Scale Mail equiv. Leather equiv.+2 RoP+3,+4 RoP+4,+4 Shield+3 Weapon Mortal GM w/ SSword+4 GM w/ Pike+2 6 Stats same for both forms: STR 11 12 INT 6(drained from 10)10 WIS 8 15 DEX 10 9 CON 12 12 CHR 10 11 Talents(Greater)24 34 Talents(Lesser) 33 34 Walk 150'(both-immortal form) Run 300' ( " - " " ) gas Form 720'(""") Fly 360' (""") Ht(mortal/immortal) and weight are same for both forms Ht 5'5" 5'3" Wt 130# 160# Skills(as mortals): Alexander:Military Tactics 13, Mysticism tarastia 17, Discuss 12, Detect Decepetion 11, Caving 15, Military Cook 15,Danger Sense 16 Pana:Endurance 12, Intimidate 11, bargain 10, Deceive 10, Escape 10, Honor Tarastia 18, Muscle 11, Leadership 10 A-M 50% each Aura-Alexander affects 1 w/ no cha nge to save-Pana affects none w/ no change to save Power 477 484 (rest of immortals coming in a few months/weeks hopefully-Golorius is next) ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 18:45:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Arik: The Watcher. This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. - --0-262350613-822038668:#16113 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: > As you may recall, there is a secret society of fighters, > originating in the Principality of Klantyre, whose goal is to destroy the > Magocracy, and reinstituting "rule by the sword". Their name is the > "Followers of the Claymore". A Claymore is a sword. The Followers > include a number of clerics whose holy symbol is a sword. And during the > parliament in which nobility in Glantri was reserved for magic-users, a > rather belligerant fighter swore "By the Holy Blade". (see the Glantrian > Gazzetteer for details) > Arik is very fond of swords ... > > So what do you think? > Well, I can't say that I like that angle - but that's only because in my own campaign the Followers of the Claymore are Lawful and Good. But furthermore, the connection between Arik and the Claymore through fondness for swords is tenuous at best. Actually, Arik was spotted during Arcanium in my own campaign! This was before he achieved his status as a "demigod". The encounter that I set up with two of the PCs led to long-standing animosities. When he was later imprisoned (not because of far-reaching crimes, but more because he gained an inordinate amount of power too quickly - thus upsetting the natural mortal > questing mortal > immortal progression) the PCs were actually quite satisfied, and then foiled an intricate plot concerning one of his ruby eyes and his attempted escape from Limbo. Perceptive readers will realize that Etienne, Rafiel, and Arik have had certain things in common ... (makes one wonder - so what was he doing in Glantri City ? ... I like the beholder-kin idea though. I actually describe Arik's true form as that of a humanoid figure molded out of slate-gray clay, with one hundred eyes opening and closing all around his body. (Makes for quite a grotesque image if it's describe well to players in the appropriate mood). Needless to say, they defeated his plot, and one mage now swears never to rest until Arik is known as "Arik the Blind" (he's now known as Arik of the ninety-nine eyes in my campaign). Finally, regarding the Followers of the Claymore, I've modelled them pretty much straight after Scottish knight/crusaders (for excellent inspirational source material on the Followers of the Claymore, read Ivanhoe, and The Talisman, both by Sir Walter Scott. If enough people are interested, I may share my developments on the Claymore with the group. Jim Sahlas - --0-262350613-822038668:#16113-- ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #61 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #62 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Sunday, 11 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 062 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 01:20:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Glantrian language At 16.48 08/02/96 -0500, you wrote: > >On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > >> Ok, I agree with you on Flaemish. This cannot logically be the language >> spoken in Glantri. But what about Chris Davies issue on Glantrian as a >> technical language for the students in the school of magic and every >> principality having its own tongue ? > > 1) A technical language already exists, it's called "magic" as >in the read magic spell. My speculation is that it would be fundamental >and universally understood by human MUs (much like math and music in our >own world). > Yes, but IMO "magic" is used only to cast spells or to write them down on a scroll or spellbook and other similar uses like runes on magical item .... But my point was about providing the teachers at the Great School of Magic a common language to make their lessons undestandable by students from all the principalities. On the other hand, if you rule that there's a common language for the whole country, then such a technical language is not needed and you're right. :-) IMO what makes the idea of Chris Davies interesting is: 1) In this way only learned people can access the school, learn magic and hope to play an important role in Glantrian politics. 2) It prevents not-Glantrians from entering the school and hence to discover the 7 secrets arts. 3) (Most important) It keeps the princes in control of the population, preventing a contemporary rebellion in different pricipalities. Just my opinion. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr brizio@lunet.it Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 01:20:43 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Old answers and new questions Phew.. I just finished reading the 25 digests before my subscription that Sir George kindly sent me. I don't want to reheat old debates, just to answer to a couple of unaswered questions. From Sir George Anonymous >Until after the war, Krakatos is nothing but ruins. The School of Magic >was founded later. Does anybody know what happened to Krakatos to begin >with? Does anyone know whatever happened to Telden, the former head of >the magicians guild in Specularum? You can find something about Krakatos and Teldon in Dragon #207, if you don't own that just mail me. However I can tell you that Teldon is disappeared while fighting a mechanical Beholder created by one of his apprentices and turned loose in Specularum. From Leroy Van Camp (I think) >If we ever see another edition of GAZ13, they will probably change the > Shadow Elves Secret Project to something else. According to Rumblings in Dragon #219 there is actually an updated Shadow Elves Gazetter available electronic on AOL. If someone can check what it is like I would be grateful to him/her. (Ann ?) And now a few questions. 1) My group is made of only 3 PC, so sometimes I make them enlisting in the army (every Shadow Elf should spent at leat 10 years in the army) and patrolling the caverns with others 6/8 NPC companions. My problems is: how much should I pay them ? As soldiers I give them 20gp/month, but how much should I reward a sergeant or a captain ? BTW, I saw the payroll used in WoTI, but I'd like something simpler, not linked to level and/or skills. 2) This question is almost esclusively for Ann: Gareth ? Who is and what projects did you have for him when putting him in PWA ? 3) I don't own Mark of Amber, what's happened to old-nice-poor Rad ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr brizio@lunet.it Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Fri, 09 Feb 96 20:20:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Arik: The Watcher. - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > Date: Friday, 09-Feb-96 06:45 PM > > From: D.J. Sahlas \ Internet: (u9320158@muss.cis.mcmaster. ca) > To: Post to Mystara-L \ Internet: (mystara-l@io.com) > > Subject: Re: [Mystara] Arik: The Watcher. > > Finally, regarding the Followers of the Claymore, I've modelled them > pretty much straight after Scottish knight/crusaders (for excellent > inspirational source material on the Followers of the Claymore, read Ivanhoe, > and The Talisman, both by Sir Walter Scott. If enough people are interested, > I may share my developments on the Claymore with the group. > > Jim Sahlas - -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- I, for one, am extremely interested in details of your version of the Followers of the Claymore. I *love* Glantri! If you decide not to post to the list, would you consider emailing me anything that you have on file? Pleasepleaseplease? Shelby7@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Fri, 09 Feb 96 20:20:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- >> Hmm..id really like more info on Blackmore too... >> I know the basics, but some details would be nice. >Someone elsew probably knows this better-I think Shelby has the Judegs Guilds version of >Blackmoor as well as the DA series Hi, Yes, I was very interested in the early D&D campaigns, and got very nostalgic, so years ago I picked up the Blackmoor supplement to the original D&D boxed set, after purchasing the Judges Guild Blackmoor release; I also grabbed the old World of Greyhawk box at that point, and checked out the Blackmoor info there. Finally I purchased the DA series (as they came out). I compared all sources for quality, mood and utility; eventually I chose elements from all where they overlapped, and modified what I felt didn't mesh with the version I enjoyed most. What was original to a particular edition was modified per my taste (which I like to think was reasonably true to Arneson's taste). I fit it into my campaign world, planning to lure the party there. Unfortunately the player that was the fulcrum for the adventure left the game before I was ready to develop that sequence, and so I went in a different direction. I don't know that rehashing a great deal of Blackmoor detail would be appropriate for the list; perhaps the original poster, quoted above, could email me if they would like more detailed info (I don't recall that person's name, I'm afraid that I got confused with all of the replies)? Shelby7@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:47:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old answers and new questions On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > >From Leroy Van Camp (I think) > >If we ever see another edition of GAZ13, they will probably change the > > Shadow Elves Secret Project to something else. > > According to Rumblings in Dragon #219 there is actually an updated Shadow > Elves Gazetter available electronic on AOL. If someone can check what it is > like I would be grateful to him/her. (Ann ?) Yeah, that was me. I have the e-version, and it is still the same thing (which I won't spoil for players that may be on the list). Since we will probably never see a new version, we won't get to see what they would have changed it to. Oh well, I like it as it is. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 02:28:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > I'm not the original poster, but I'd appreciate it if you could CC any email > about Blackmoor in my direction.. :) > BTW, do you have the Beagle coming from a distant star in Mystara's dimension > as stated in DAx, or falling through a 'dimensional tear' as in WotI? > Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca - -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- Dan, I will cc you when the original poster responds; if a reasonable length of time goes by without a response, I'll drop you a line and we can take it from there. As for the Beagle, IMC it comes through a dimensional tear, but I don't have WOTI; Mystara is within a crystal sphere. The Beagle hits the outside of the crystal sphere, which extrudes into its dimension, albeit almost without trace; the system itself is detectable (not clearly) within the sphere. When the Beagle hits the sphere, it is passed through a one-way barrier, and enters Mystara-space (or Titanspace IMC). If it were able to leave the sphere, however, it would enter the phlogiston of the Spelljammer cosmology. One-way trip. shelby7@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 03:53:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] FSS Beagle (was: Blackmoor) > > BTW, do you have the Beagle coming from a distant star in Mystara's > dimension > > as stated in DAx, or falling through a 'dimensional tear' as in WotI? > > As for the Beagle, IMC it comes through a dimensional tear, but I don't have > WOTI; Mystara is within a crystal sphere. The Beagle hits the outside of the > crystal sphere, which extrudes into its dimension, albeit almost without > trace; the system itself is detectable (not clearly) within the sphere. When > the Beagle hits the sphere, it is passed through a one-way barrier, and > enters Mystara-space (or Titanspace IMC). If it were able to leave the > sphere, however, it would enter the phlogiston of the Spelljammer cosmology. > One-way trip. Almost makes you feel sorry for those brave explorers who "boldly went where no green-skinned alien had gone before", doesn't it? :) I've read DA2, DA3, and WotI's info on the Beagle.. is there anything I've missed by never having found the original Blackmoor sets? Haven't I heard of "Titanspace" elsewhere in the Spelljammer texts? Hm.. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 18:15:13 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Limbo Did anyone of you run adventures in Limbo as described in the Princess Ark Series (Dragon #180)? ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr brizio@lunet.it Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 12:30:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] FSS Beagle (was: Blackmoor) - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > Date: Saturday, 10-Feb-96 03:53 AM > From: Daniel Boese \ Internet: (dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca) > To: Post to Mystara-L \ Internet: (mystara-l@io.com) > Subject: [Mystara] FSS Beagle (was: Blackmoor) > Almost makes you feel sorry for those brave explorers who "boldly went where > no green-skinned alien had gone before", doesn't it? :) Hey, if we couldn't get inside the 'heads' of the characters we create, we wouldn't be role playing. > I've read DA2, DA3, and WotI's info on the Beagle.. is there anything I've > missed by never having found the original Blackmoor sets? No, off the top of my head the Beagle isn't mentioned at all in the original TSR supplement, or appreciably if at all in DA1. I will have to check the Judges Guild edition, and get back to you. > Haven't I heard of "Titanspace" elsewhere in the Spelljammer texts? Hm.. To my knowledge the name "Titanspace" sprung forth whole from my forehead. I believe that I own all Spelljammer products, and I don't recall a mention there. The term describes the most significant (to a spelljammer) feature of the sphere, the 'titans' on the inside of the shell. My description is on the FTP site connected with this list. > -- > Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca > > Shelby Michlin ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:43:22 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Limbo On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > Did anyone of you run adventures in Limbo as described in the Princess Ark > Series (Dragon #180)? As a matter of fact, when running a group of PC's through Rahasia, one of the fighters, Larendor, was first held (as in the spell) by the Rahib, and his neck broken. He then went to limbo, where the spirit of Yuri, a cleric of Zirchev who had died earlier in the adventure, led Larendor to a gateway that brought him back to life- with only patchy memories of the event. Zirchev was working against the Rahib's evil, and so chose Larendor as one of his champions in the prime plane. Needless to say, the rest of the party was quite shocked to see Larendor return, seeing as how they had already discovered his corpse... ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:01:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Mystara FTP Site? (was: FSS Beagle) > [snip] > ... the FTP site connected with this list. I happen to know of the TSRInc@aol.com's site (http://users.aol.com/tsrinc/), and http://moray.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/mystara/index.html and http://www.miniworld.com/adnd/mystarra/index.shtml, and the digest list at ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest... are any of these what you're talking about? - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 17:53:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara FTP Site? (was: FSS Beagle) - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > Date: Saturday, 10-Feb-96 05:01 PM > > From: Daniel Boese \ Internet: (dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca) > To: Post to Mystara-L \ Internet: (mystara-l@io.com) > > Subject: [Mystara] Mystara FTP Site? (was: FSS Beagle) > > > [snip] > > ... the FTP site connected with this list. > > I happen to know of the TSRInc@aol.com's site (http://users.aol. com/tsrinc/), > and http://moray.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/mystara/index.html and > http://www.miniworld.com/adnd/mystarra/index.shtml, and the digest list at > ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest... are any of these what > you're talking about? > > -- > Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca > > > > - -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- Our administrator of the Mystara list, Leroy, accepted some work of mine. He subsequently announced in a posting to the list that he had set up an FTP site, and he detailed what was stored there. I have older postings in another mail handler, so don't have ready access to the address. Leroy? Shelby ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:57:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] unresearched Mystara immortals I looked thru some old modules and if anyone wants to research/write up more info on these immortals in them great. here are the ones I found: (from memory) B4 Gorm,Usimagaras,Maduara X1 Sky g-d of some sort worshipped by natives X8 kara-kara worship a pig gd DA series - the deity of the Afridhi(still around now??) CM1 The three crones of Norworld IM1 Drekk IM2 heckuva lot of them here-like 15 or 20 to work on X3 Spuming Naga If anyone wants to copy Cthuludrew's example and write these up in detail, I am sure we would all apprecitate it Never underestimate the stupidity of Starscream -Blitzwing ------------------------------ From: Chris Davies Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 20:56:11 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Arik: The Watcher. On Fri, 9 Feb 1996, D.J. Sahlas wrote: > Well, I can't say that I like that angle - but that's only > because in my own campaign the Followers of the Claymore are Lawful and > Good. Seeking the overthrow of a government is Lawful and Good? > Finally, regarding the Followers of the Claymore, I've modelled > them pretty much straight after Scottish knight/crusaders (for excellent > inspirational source material on the Followers of the Claymore, read > Ivanhoe, and The Talisman, both by Sir Walter Scott. If enough people > are interested, I may share my developments on the Claymore with the > group. > For myself, I'd model them on the Knights Templar. But these Knights Templar were guilty of everything they were accused of ... Chris Davies. ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 04:19:49 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] unresearched Mystara immortals On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > B4 Gorm,Usimagaras,Maduara Don't forget Chardastes and Brissard from two of the other Basic modules (I don't remember which- B9, maybe- Castle Caldwell and Beyond?) and Thendara the protector from B3(?)- Palace of the Silver Princess (unless that is only in the B1-9 series and not the original module...?) > X1 Sky g-d of some sort worshipped by natives > X8 kara-kara worship a pig gd There is also, as I believe has been noted at some point, a goddess mentioned in X11- Saga of the Shadowlord (can't remember the name offhand...) > DA series - the deity of the Afridhi(still around now??) This would be interesting to see... I can't imagine that the Blackmoorian immortals just up and disappeared... > CM1 The three crones of Norworld Are these three immortals? I thought they were just powerful clerics who sat around in a cave all day and made mysterious prophecies... (to each his own, you know?) > X3 Spuming Naga The Spuming Nooga is actually just another name for the immortal Protius. The Spuming Nooga is how he is known amongst the Northerners. Just my $0.02. ;) ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 07:42:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara FTP Site? (was: FSS Beagle) On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, Shelby Michlin wrote: > Our administrator of the Mystara list, Leroy, accepted some work of mine. He > subsequently announced in a posting to the list that he had set up an FTP > site, and he detailed what was stored there. I have older postings in > another mail handler, so don't have ready access to the address. Leroy? Not exactly. My half-assed solution so far has been to keep a copy of all the "good stuff" and an index of it, then mail out a copy of whatever people "order" from it. All the copies are on my computer. The problem, which I outlined in an earlier post, is that since I was booted from school I have been fairly busy with things like job hunting (I even bought a suit!). And it looks like I may be getting one soon (Micron Computers, 10 hour days). So, I have been unable to keep the index up. I still have copies of all the good stuff, though. What I need is a volunteer who would take over the responsibility of keeping things up and sending things out when ordered. Of course it would be much easier if all this stuff was put on a ftp or web sight, but there are a lot of complications involved, most legal. If anyone is interested, perhaps I could chat with the MPGN people and see if we can get a Mystara directory on their FTP site. It's TSR legal, but some don't like the idea. Feedback on this issue, plus volunteers, are welcome. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 18:48:35 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, Shelby Michlin wrote: > -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > > > -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > > I'm not the original poster, but I'd appreciate it if you could CC any > email > > about Blackmoor in my direction.. :) > > BTW, do you have the Beagle coming from a distant star in Mystara's > dimension > > as stated in DAx, or falling through a 'dimensional tear' as in WotI? > > Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca > -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- > Dan, > > I will cc you when the original poster responds; if a reasonable length of > time goes by without a response, I'll drop you a line and we can take it > from there. > > As for the Beagle, IMC it comes through a dimensional tear, but I don't have > WOTI; Mystara is within a crystal sphere. The Beagle hits the outside of the > crystal sphere, which extrudes into its dimension, albeit almost without > trace; the system itself is detectable (not clearly) within the sphere. When > the Beagle hits the sphere, it is passed through a one-way barrier, and > enters Mystara-space (or Titanspace IMC). If it were able to leave the > sphere, however, it would enter the phlogiston of the Spelljammer cosmology. > One-way trip. > > shelby7@ix.netcom.com > Hmm, i'm kinda sensitive to this subject. I just dont like the spelljammer worldview. Bruce Heard stated that the Mystaran universe is far away from the crystalspheres at best(unless the individula DM rules sth else ofcourse. In my campaign, the mystara galaxy is more like described in the original immmortals box; much like our own galaxy. The Beagle had to be from another dimension, as these aliens faced problems with the worldlaws of our plane of existance(their magic/technology worked differently), causing them to crash. Haavard Faanes. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #62 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #63 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Monday, 12 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 063 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 18:55:11 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Limbo On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > Did anyone of you run adventures in Limbo as described in the Princess Ark > Series (Dragon #180)? Nah, didnt like it. I chose to ognore the info in that chapter. IMC, when people die, they go directly to the homeplane of one of the Immortals representing death (Odin, Hel, etc..) Undead are linked directly to the sphere of entrophy, new products mention the negative energy plane, but this seems too AD&Dish to me. Haavard Faanes. ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 14:06:39 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] unresearched Mystara immortals > On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > > B4 Gorm,Usimagaras,Maduara > > Don't forget Chardastes and Brissard from two of the other Basic modules > (I don't remember which- B9, maybe- Castle Caldwell and Beyond?) and > Thendara the protector from B3(?)- Palace of the Silver Princess (unless > that is only in the B1-9 series and not the original module...?) Brissard is from IM2 (?). The two gods from B9 Castle Caldwell and Beyond are Chardastes (now an add-on to the Traladaran Faith) and Leptar (a demon figure for the same). > > X1 Sky g-d of some sort worshipped by natives > > X8 kara-kara worship a pig gd > > There is also, as I believe has been noted at some point, a goddess > mentioned in X11- Saga of the Shadowlord (can't remember the name offhand...) Idris. In my campaign this was just another guise for Hel. I like to use the idea that one god or goddess can be known to different cultures as several different names (using various-shaped avatars to fufill the duties). It saves on time and keeps the number of one- shot gods to a minimum. > > DA series - the deity of the Afridhi(still around now??) > > This would be interesting to see... I can't imagine that the Blackmoorian > immortals just up and disappeared... Most of them still exist - Terra, Djaea, Ordana, Ixion, Wotan/Odin, Valerias, Korotiku, Thanatos, Hel, Nyx, etc. > > CM1 The three crones of Norworld > Are these three immortals? I thought they were just powerful clerics who > sat around in a cave all day and made mysterious prophecies... (to each > his own, you know?) They are the three fates, back when the Known World was supposed to be proto-Earth (they call Alphatia, Atlantis). In my game they don't exist. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 15:58:48 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Blackmoor On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > Hmm, i'm kinda sensitive to this subject. I just dont like the > spelljammer worldview. Bruce Heard stated that the Mystaran universe is > far away from the crystalspheres at best(unless the individula DM rules > sth else ofcourse. In my campaign, the mystara galaxy is more like > described in the original immmortals box; much like our own galaxy. > The Beagle had to be from another dimension, as these aliens faced > problems with the worldlaws of our plane of existance(their > magic/technology worked differently), causing them to crash. > I'm with Haavard on this one, except for the other dimension thing. IMC, the Beagle is from a civilization that exists at the hub of the galaxy (as described in the Immortals' (original) set)- this hub is soooo darned far away from everything else (don't remember offhand- but it's like millions of billions of trillions of lightyears away) that even at lightspeed, it would take forever and a day to reach Mystara (hence, the reason for the lack of a rescue mission?). The Beagle slipped through some sort of magical spacial anomaly, like a dimension door or a gate or something, and ended up in Mystara's section of space. One idea, along these lines, that I have toyed with, is a campaign set in the hub of the universe- a sort of star wars kind of campaign. There would be the green skinned Beagle humans, an empire of Rakasta (they are said to have come from space originally), a plutocracy of Planar Spiders (maybe this is their original home?), plus some Aranea and Adaptors (another mysterious race) among others. There would be little to no magic out this way, perhaps due to the closeness of the hub to the center of things, and it wouldn't exist among the humans at any rate (otherwise, why should they be surprised at its existence on Mystara?) Yet another of my ideas that hasn't ever seen full fruition. What does everyone think? ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 16:08:59 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] PBEM openings! For those of you who might be interested, there are a few openings in a PBEM campaign I have recently begun. I will probably be taking only one or two other players, depending on how much interest there is, so placement will be on a first come, first serve basis. Some more information: Characters start at level two, any races/classes accepted, though some may take a bit more tweaking to work into the campaign than others, depending on their complexity. I use OD&D rules, though my emphasis is much more on roleplay and storytelling than game mechanics. The campaign itself is set around the WOtI time period, with some (perhaps in some cases, substantial) changes to reflect my own tastes. Characters begin in the Republic of Darokin, though their origin is not confined to this place- in fact, there are already some strange concepts out there, so don't be hindered by this fact. ;) If interested, email me a couple of paragraphs about your character- including name, race/class, home, and a little bit about his/her personality. From there we can go on to specifics, and work into the campaign itself. Look forward to hearing from you! Andrew T. ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 18:50:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Poll: Crystal Spheres vs Open Space I've noticed a lot of talk about whether people prefer using the Spelljammer version of outer space, or the original OD&D stuff with skyships and so on. Personally, I prefer the open space thing, but that's just because I grew up with it. :) (literally, actually.. born in '76.. :) ) I'm going to take a poll, starting as soon as this message is posted, ending Feb 18, about which version all of the rest of you prefer. After I post the results, we'll have a better idea what's more standard. Also: If you want to mention if you have Mystara in the same universe as Krynn/Toril/Oerth, or a seperate Prime, or another dimension, or whatver, I'd like to know that, too. :) Until the Hollow World gets buried, Make Mine Mystara! :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 18:44:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] unresearched Mystara immortals > > DA series - the deity of the Afridhi(still around now??) > > This would be interesting to see... I can't imagine that the Blackmoorian > immortals just up and disappeared... Well, immortals can die and it has been a long time since the DA series took place in the timeline of Mystara > > CM1 The three crones of Norworld > > Are these three immortals? I thought they were just powerful clerics who > sat around in a cave all day and made mysterious prophecies... (to each > his own, you know?) The CM1 book has clerical stats for them, but they are mentioned as immortals in M2-and I think they fit that role better than mere high-level clerics > The Spuming Nooga is actually just another name for the immortal Protius. > The Spuming Nooga is how he is known amongst the Northerners. Thanks for the info. Are your friends as good at killing Firbolgs as you are?-Tristan Kendrick Well, we kind of like to make a hobby of it-Finnellenn, the dwarf ------------------------------ From: Jason Zavoda Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 20:03:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Poll: Crystal Spheres vs Open Space Hello All I'm an open space fan myself, the Universe is big, bigger than is imaginable and I have room for Toril/Krynn/Oerth and Mystara in my game version. I never got the feel for the Spelljamer concept, I did use the ships designs for an etheral campaign where ships between worlds sailed on an etheral sea, with some of the ships being able to sail beneath the surface like Subs. I even used the helm concept and it worked fairly well but I dumped the gravity rules, crystal spheres and oxygen depletion. Ships did not sail the through the sky, though my version of Mystara does have Skyships but no skyshield. In between planets I have space, big empty cold. I also have the Beagle as coming from Earth many many lightyears away but in the same dimension. Jason Zavoda On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, Daniel Boese wrote: > I've noticed a lot of talk about whether people prefer using the > Spelljammer version of outer space, or the original OD&D stuff with > skyships and so on./snip/ > I'm going to take a poll, starting as soon as this message is posted, > ending Feb 18, about which version all of the rest of you prefer. After I > post the results, we'll have a better idea what's more standard. > > Also: If you want to mention if you have Mystara in the same universe as > Krynn/Toril/Oerth, or a seperate Prime, or another dimension, or whatver, > I'd like to know that, too. :) > > > Until the Hollow World gets buried, Make Mine Mystara! :) > -- > Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca > > ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 20:33:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Poll: Crystal Spheres vs Open Space I don't care for Spelljammer stuff at all. Crystal spheres and phlogiston just don't tickle my fancy. It's also not complicated for me because I don't consider AD&D gameworlds in my campaign's multiverse. For me, they exist in another game in the real world, and nowhere at all in the gameworld. I like the "realistic" approach of the gold boxed Immortals set. I'm not crazy about the skyshield, but never had to think too much about it yet, not having had my players go up that high :). I do like the gold boxed set notion of sound in D&D being passable through a vacuum, for no particular reason. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ David "Azure" Leland ~~~ azure@cs.oberlin.edu ~~ ~~ Creative Writing, Cognitive Science ~~~ phone/fax: (216) 775-5582 ~~ ~~ Oberlin College ~~~ http://www.oberlin.edu/~dleland ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 22:25:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Poll: Crystal Spheres vs Open Space - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > I'm going to take a poll, starting as soon as this message is posted, ending > Feb 18, about which version all of the rest of you prefer. After I post the > results, we'll have a better idea what's more standard. > > Also: If you want to mention if you have Mystara in the same universe as > Krynn/Toril/Oerth, or a seperate Prime, or another dimension, or whatver, I'd > like to know that, too. :) - -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- Well, as should be no surprise, I chose the Spelljammer-type of universe. If you check out the 1st Ed AD&D DMG, you'll see ideas for expanding a campaign in many different directions, and I think this concept falls within the spirit of that piece. When I first heard about Spelljammer, I wasn't too sure I wanted to try such a drastically-new concept, but it finally caught my fancy. Of course, I made a few modifications as well... I also eliminated the skyshield concept, I never liked that. Frankly, with all the inconsistencies in how "Mystara's" details have been presented to the consumer, I don't think it's too earth-shattering to choose one over another . By the way, I have no trouble with ships of the ethereal plane, a similar idea (I think for the astral plane) appeared in an old issue of Dragon. I ran an adventure, in the days before Spelljammer or that Dragon article, where a party met Elric in a vast dungeon beneath an emperor's citadel. Elric opened a portal to the Astral plane, drew forth a ship to sail upon, and took the party with him as crew on a journey to capture a demon's heart- gem to aid his love. A very satisfying adventure, I must say. My earlier description of the Beagle's entry implies to me that the crystal spheres and normal space almost co-exist. One can traverse to fantasy space, but returning is far from easy. Of course, the only overlap is where systems exist in both dimensions; there would be systems with no counterpart in the other dimension. Phlogiston would simply be a fantasy "deep space," existing outside the gravity well of a star. A mechanism functioning as a fantasy alternative to FTL drives. Finally, all of the Spelljammer versions of TSR worlds exist in the same universe as my Mystara. There would be alternate Prime Material planes with other DMs' versions of those worlds. I'm curious to see the results of the poll! Shelby ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 21:36:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Poll: Crystal Spheres vs Open Space On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, Daniel Boese wrote: > I've noticed a lot of talk about whether people prefer using the > Spelljammer version of outer space, or the original OD&D stuff with > skyships and so on. Personally, I think Spelljammer is one of the coolest, most original concepts in fantasy gaming. I had given up xD&D in favor of other systems, and I only decided to return with the release of Spelljammer. My Mystara has always been encased in a crystal sphere. > Personally, I prefer the open space thing, but that's just because I > grew up with it. :) (literally, actually.. born in '76.. :) ) Damn youngsters, cluttering up the net. :) Personally, I like crystal spheres becasue I _didn't_ grow up with it. > I'm going to take a poll, starting as soon as this message is posted, > ending Feb 18, about which version all of the rest of you prefer. After I > post the results, we'll have a better idea what's more standard. I think my answer is clear... > Also: If you want to mention if you have Mystara in the same universe as > Krynn/Toril/Oerth, or a seperate Prime, or another dimension, or whatver, > I'd like to know that, too. :) Well, I enjoy Greyhawk and the Realms as well as Mystara, so they are part of my Prime (more worlds for spacefarers to explore). Krynn is also part, but mostly cut off from the rest. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Another slave and a victim of fate, another lesson in hate." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Burning Inside ------------------------------ From: Berg Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 21:56:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Poll: Crystal Spheres vs Open Space Well, I actually use a combination of open space and crystal spheres IMC. Mystaraspace is a super-huge sphere, containing a single supergiant star, complete with planets. But about half of them are smaller fire planets, and each of those fire planets has planets of it's own. The sphere as a result is unimaginably vast. Bigger than just about anything you can think of. Picture, if you would, a solar system that actually includes nine smaller solar systems within it. As a result, it takes years with conventional spelljamming techniques to go from the main central star to the edge of the sphere. To deal with this vastness, I had the dominant empire build jumpgates, like in the Babylon 5 TV series...each sub-system has a jumpgate, and there are others down by the rest of the super-system's planets, as well as near permanent gates in the sphere. How huge is it really? Well, take a star, larger than anything in the real-life known universe, as big as a whole star system itself. Orbiting it are nine smaller star systems and nine super-huge planets (3 earth, 3 water, 3 air). Each of the nine sub-systems orbit a fire-body at least the size of Sol. Some are larger. Each of the sub-systems has planets of it's own, ranging from five to twenty. The largest planets in the sub-systems often have moons (90% of them have at least one), and the largest of the planets in the sub-systems have twelve moons. Oddly enough, the outside of the sphere looks no larger than that of Krynnspace. The whole interior of the sphere is one enormous, naturally occurring extradimensional space. Mystara is the 3rd planet of the 4th sub-system. Outside the sphere is the phlogiston. ow, IMC, it's not the natural state of the universe. It's actually a huge, breathable, flammable nebula. It's kept at breathable pressures by the presence of an enormous black hole in the center (which does mean that eventually there won't BE a nebula or known space anymore). Beyond the nebula? Open space. I've placed the nebula opposite the saggitariu arm of the Milky Way galaxy, in Star Trek terms, call that the Delta or Gamma quadrant (far side of it). And yes, IMC, the UFP does exist...it's just REALLY far away. :) ------------------------------ From: jam@wimsey.com (Jenni A. Merrifield) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 22:59:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] unresearched Mystara immortals > I looked thru some old modules and if anyone wants to research/write up > more info on these immortals in them great. here are the ones I found: > [..Snip..] First, thanks to Mischa for producing this initial list of unresearched" immortals. Since I don't personally own a lot of the modules I've been relying on members of the list to suggest who might need to be researched. Thanks also to the others who have added names and made further comments. Second, I have kept the current information on Cretia, Forsett and Arik as posted. I have noticed some comments about Arik surfacing, but none about Cretia or Forsett -- is everyone happy with the information as provided? Third, I've also kept the Immortals posted by Mischa, does anyone else have "personal" Immortals to offer the list? Does anyone have any comments on the background and whatnot of the "new" Immortals we have seen so far? Constructive criticism is usually a useful and postive thing. > If anyone wants to copy Cthuludrew's example and write these up in > detail, I am sure we would all apprecitate it Oh yes... Especially anyone who has previously taken any of these and expanded them for their campaign anyway. I'd like to add that suggestions that certain "one shot" immortals are just another name for an "existing" TSR immortal are perfectly acceptable. In that case, I would be interested in collecting information on how that particular "aspect" of the Immortal in question is the same or different from the "standard" aspects. Other important things, like differences in worship practices, holy symbolism, Clerical Requirments, etc, would definitly be useful. That's it for now, - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield : ............ -=< strawberryJAMM >=- : Black Holes Are Merely jam@wimsey.com : Where God Divided By Zero http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/ : ............... ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 01:32:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] unresearched Mystara immortals Mischa E Gelman pontificated: > > > CM1 The three crones of Norworld > > > > Are these three immortals? I thought they were just powerful clerics who > > sat around in a cave all day and made mysterious prophecies... (to each > > his own, you know?) > > The CM1 book has clerical stats for them, but they are mentioned as > immortals in M2-and I think they fit that role better than mere > high-level clerics I consider them as immortal class creature, but not really immortals themself, similar to Titans and many other creatures described in the immortal box set. The reason for this is that they seems to be too powerful to be just mere mortals, but seems to be too "available" in the two adventures for them to be true immortals. - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: postmaster@ncrsecp.copenhagen.NCR.COM Date: Mon Feb 12 08:50:05 MET 1996 Subject: [Mystara] SMTP mail failed ---------- diagnosis ---------- SMTP diagnosis, WWIS Version 3.08 : Not-Delivered-To: l345.copenhagen.attgis.com!smunther@l345.Copenhagen.ATTGIS.COM Due to: Transfer Failure (Error in message or message format.) (Possibly a bad destination address, please verify). --------- unsent mail --------- Received: by ncrsecp.Copenhagen.NCR.COM; 12 Feb 96 08:40:09 MET Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with UUCP id CAA02916 for ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.com!sm; Mon, 12 Feb 1996 02:22:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 12 Feb 96 02:21:02 EST Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA21698 for mystara-l-outgoing; Mon, 12 Feb 1996 01:07:04 -0600 Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA21687 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 1996 01:06:55 -0600 Received: from virginia.edu (mars.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by deliverator.io.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id BAA27139 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 1996 01:07:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from kelvin.seas.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa28513; 12 Feb 96 1:32 EST Received: (from scy2g@localhost) by kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (8.7.1/8.6.6) id BAA130464 for mystara-l@io.com; Mon, 12 Feb 1996 01:32:39 -0500 From: Shin Chyang Yu Message-Id: <199602120632.BAA130464@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU> Subject: Re: [Mystara] unresearched Mystara immortals To: mystara-l@io.com Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 01:32:39 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Mischa E Gelman" at Feb 11, 96 06:44:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com Mischa E Gelman pontificated: > > > CM1 The three crones of Norworld > > > > Are these three immortals? I thought they were just powerful clerics who > > sat around in a cave all day and made mysterious prophecies... (to each > > his own, you know?) > > The CM1 book has clerical stats for them, but they are mentioned as > immortals in M2-and I think they fit that role better than mere > high-level clerics I consider them as immortal class creature, but not really immortals themself, similar to Titans and many other creatures described in the immortal box set. The reason for this is that they seems to be too powerful to be just mere mortals, but seems to be too "available" in the two adventures for them to be true immortals. - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 11:31:27 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Poll: Crystal Spheres vs Open Space On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, David 'Azure' Leland wrote: > I don't care for Spelljammer stuff at all. Crystal spheres and phlogiston > just don't tickle my fancy. It's also not complicated for me because I > don't consider AD&D gameworlds in my campaign's multiverse. For me, they > exist in another game in the real world, and nowhere at all in the > gameworld. I like the "realistic" approach of the gold boxed Immortals > set. I'm not crazy about the skyshield, but never had to think too much > about it yet, not having had my players go up that high :). I do like the > gold boxed set notion of sound in D&D being passable through a vacuum, for > no particular reason. I have expressed my opinion on this matter before. I also ignore the other TSR products, most importantly i ignore Planescape. GODs and Immortals? No way. The Immortals rule the Multiverse..noone else.. ah yeah..the old ones..but i do not feel this is really compatible with ad&d Multiverse. Haavard Faanes. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #63 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #64 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 14 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 064 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 11:35:26 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Poll: Crystal Spheres vs Open Space On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > Personally, I think Spelljammer is one of the coolest, most original > concepts in fantasy gaming. I had given up xD&D in favor of other systems, > and I only decided to return with the release of Spelljammer. > My Mystara has always been encased in a crystal sphere. I like Spelljammer too...just not with Mystara. I like Mystara the way it was before. all this ad&d stuff has tainted the world. guess im just a purist > > > Personally, I prefer the open space thing, but that's just because I > > grew up with it. :) (literally, actually.. born in '76.. :) ) > > Damn youngsters, cluttering up the net. :) heh. Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 15:56:01 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Poll: Crystal Spheres vs Open Space At 18.50 11/02/96 -0500, you wrote: > I'm going to take a poll, starting as soon as this message is posted, >ending Feb 18, about which version all of the rest of you prefer. After I >post the results, we'll have a better idea what's more standard. > I prefer the OD&D version for several reasons: 1) I play with OD&D rules, and the only rules I know for aerial and space travel are the ones in CoM. 2) I don't know how Speljammer rules works. Actually, I don't know very much about AD&D, only what I learned playing in the Realms in this last two years. However I've never had PC's above 9th level, so I've never had problems with skyships, the Skyshield or space travel. > Also: If you want to mention if you have Mystara in the same universe as >Krynn/Toril/Oerth, or a seperate Prime, or another dimension, or whatver, >I'd like to know that, too. :) > My campaign is about Mystara, so I've never thought where to place the others TSR worlds. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr brizio@lunet.it Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 11:01:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Poll: Crystal Spheres vs Open Space > > I've noticed a lot of talk about whether people prefer using the > > Spelljammer version of outer space, or the original OD&D stuff with > > skyships and so on. > > Personally, I think Spelljammer is one of the coolest, most original > concepts in fantasy gaming. I had given up xD&D in favor of other systems, > and I only decided to return with the release of Spelljammer. > My Mystara has always been encased in a crystal sphere. I've never played SpellJammer, but DND in space is not what I want. Limited aliens like the Beagle and the M1 skyships are fine, but hrodes of aliens and aircraft-NO. > > grew up with it. :) (literally, actually.. born in '76.. :) ) > > Damn youngsters, cluttering up the net. :) What... born in '76 is ANCIENT, man. I couldn't imagine being 19 or 20. All the pain from waking up in the morning and all those senile effects you get with age-not for me. (I'm 18, BTW, born in '77.) > Well, I enjoy Greyhawk and the Realms as well as Mystara, so they are > part of my Prime (more worlds for spacefarers to explore). Krynn is also > part, but mostly cut off from the rest. Kender in Glantri! Love it. Are your friends as good at killing Firbolgs as you are?-Tristan Kendrick Well, we kind of like to make a hobby of it-Finnellenn, the dwarf ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 10:07:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Poll: Crystal Spheres vs Open Space On Mon, 12 Feb 1996, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > > I've noticed a lot of talk about whether people prefer using the > > > Spelljammer version of outer space, or the original OD&D stuff with > > > skyships and so on. > > > > Personally, I think Spelljammer is one of the coolest, most original > > concepts in fantasy gaming. I had given up xD&D in favor of other systems, > > and I only decided to return with the release of Spelljammer. > > My Mystara has always been encased in a crystal sphere. > > I've never played SpellJammer, but DND in space is not what I want. > Limited aliens like the Beagle and the M1 skyships are fine, but hrodes > of aliens and aircraft-NO. Just for the record, I want to point out that Spelljammer is _not_ about ultra-tech spaceships, or aliens with blasters and powered armour. Rather, it is an "extension" of fantasy into space. Ships are often wooden and powered by magic, armed with ballistas and catapults, and the most advanced technology you are going to find is backfire-prone black powder weapons. > > > grew up with it. :) (literally, actually.. born in '76.. :) ) > > > > Damn youngsters, cluttering up the net. :) > > What... born in '76 is ANCIENT, man. I couldn't imagine being 19 or 20. > All the pain from waking up in the morning and all those senile effects you > get with age-not for me. (I'm 18, BTW, born in '77.) Well, in the end its not age but maturity. I would rather have a mature 18 year old player than a whiny 30 year old rules-lawyer any day. > > Well, I enjoy Greyhawk and the Realms as well as Mystara, so they are > > part of my Prime (more worlds for spacefarers to explore). Krynn is also > > part, but mostly cut off from the rest. > > Kender in Glantri! Love it. The mere thought sends a chill up my spine. But I am sure a few Glantrian mages wouldn't mind a chance to use one in an experiment or two... "Immune to fear, eh? Well, we'll see about that!" Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 16:01:45 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Limbo At 14.43 10/02/96 -0700, you wrote: >On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > >> Did anyone of you run adventures in Limbo as described in the Princess Ark >> Series (Dragon #180)? > [snip] He then went to limbo, where the spirit of Yuri, a >cleric of Zirchev who had died earlier in the adventure, led Larendor to >a gateway that brought him back to life [snip] My posting about Limbo didn't get many answers, anyway my doubt is just about this "gateway" and the planar location of Limbo. I'm not an expert of multiverse traveling, but IMO a gate, as in the spell, is a link between two adjacent planes, hence Limbo should be one of the inner planes just near the Prime plane. Is that so ? Probably not, because the description of Limbo strats with "Limbo, a very remote outer plane". Where is the fault ? Now something less metaphysical: who lives in Limbo ? Minion and Masters of Chaos, the souls of the dead, and then what else ? Fiends ? Undead ? What about a generic monster (Orc, Dragon or Bear...) can we find his soul in Limbo after his death ? There was also one of my PC's that had a problem with the way time passes in Limbo, but I don'y remember it exactly... but he should be on this list so... (Igor ?). ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr brizio@lunet.it Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:40:01 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Limbo > My posting about Limbo didn't get many answers, anyway my doubt is just > about this "gateway" and the planar location of Limbo. > I'm not an expert of multiverse traveling, but IMO a gate, as in the spell, > is a link between two adjacent planes, hence Limbo should be one of the > inner planes just near the Prime plane. Is that so ? Probably not, because > the description of Limbo strats with "Limbo, a very remote outer plane". > Where is the fault ? No. The inference is logical, until one thinks of 'Limbo' as the Plane of the Dead, ajacent to all material planes (this is OD&D planar geography, not Planescape) but unaccessable to all living creatures save the Immortals and their servants, and the high undead (not skeletons and zombies). From the Immortals point of vue (with 4th and 5th dimensions taken into account) Limbo is an outer plane, but one that is, in absolute terms, close to the Prime. > Now something less metaphysical: who lives in Limbo ? Minion and Masters of > Chaos, the souls of the dead, and then what else ? Fiends ? Undead ? What > about a generic monster (Orc, Dragon or Bear...) can we find his soul in > Limbo after his death ? The best guess would be powerful undead (ghosts, liches, vampires), fiends, the various creatures mentioned in Dragon, and the souls themselves. As for wether or not there are such things as animals, humanoids, dragons and such it does come back to a metaphysical argument - what does and does not have a soul. Does an animal? According to Atruaghin and Ethengar the answer is yes. Do humanoids have souls? Well, it says Hel used the souls of evil humans to create beast-men so I'd say yes (but do their souls appear beastial/goblinoid or do they appear human?). Do dragons and other mythical creatures have souls? Well, the article on Dragon souls (#170) does say so, but it says that they are either reborn immediately or immediate go to the Draconic Cluster. In my game I use a less problematic Land of the Dead. I took the WW game Wraith and it's sourcebook on the Tempest (it's "Plane") and used that to describe the afterlife. Animals have simple, easily controlled (and destroyed) souls, as do mythic creatures. Humanoids are treated in the same vein as normal souls, without the physical body, all the dead are equal (ie. an ogre's soul isn't stronger than a hin's). Faeries do not have souls (they ARE souls in the same sense as Gods - dead faeries reincarnate as Rhainnion sees fit, and she is the only one who can fashion new souls). Dragons are reincarnated according to how pure they were to the draconic ideal (ie. a paragon who died before undergoing the Ritual will be reborn as a gemstone, Night Dragons souls are not reborn - they are destroyed). HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 19:05:26 AST Subject: RCPT: Re: [Mystara] Limbo Confirmation of reading: your message - Date: 13 Feb 96 11:40 To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Limbo Was read at 19:05, 13 Feb 96. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:11:55 AST Subject: [Mystara] I need TPO -> OD&D conversion data This is the third place I have requested this information (not a rant, just FYI so you don't get paranoid). I bought the 1994 edition of The Primal Order (the generic pantheon and god sourcebook with conversion rules for umpteen dozen games) and I know that the first one had TSR conversion notes (that were removed from later editions for legal reasons). TSR may think something was wrong with the info, but I don't (and, judging from the number of other companies whose games are supported at the back of the book, most other companies share my PoV) and I need the info. SO *exhale* If you have the first edition of TPO, or you have the conversion notes laying around, could someone please send them to me? I will be more than greatful. Thank You. Nightshade HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Berg Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 19:17:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] I need TPO -> OD&D conversion data Could someone send them to me too? (same reason as original poster :) ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 23:20:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] I need TPO -> OD&D conversion data On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, Nightshade wrote: > I bought the 1994 edition of The Primal Order (the generic > pantheon and god sourcebook with conversion rules for umpteen dozen > games) and I know that the first one had TSR conversion notes (that > were removed from later editions for legal reasons). TSR may think > something was wrong with the info, but I don't (and, judging from the > number of other companies whose games are supported at the back of > the book, most other companies share my PoV) and I need the info. > > SO *exhale* If you have the first edition of TPO, or you have the > conversion notes laying around, could someone please send them to me? > I will be more than greatful. Thank You. Just on the off chance someone was considering sending this to the list I have to say: Please don't. It sounds like potential copyright infringement and should be kept to private e-mail. (Which _is_ what Nightshade asked for, but better safe than sorry). Sorry if this seems heavy-handed or intrusive. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:04:19 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Limbo On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, Nightshade wrote: > In my game I use a less problematic Land of the Dead. I took the > WW game Wraith and it's sourcebook on the Tempest (it's "Plane") and > used that to describe the afterlife. Animals have simple, easily > controlled (and destroyed) souls, as do mythic creatures. Humanoids > are treated in the same vein as normal souls, without the physical > body, all the dead are equal (ie. an ogre's soul isn't stronger than > a hin's). Faeries do not have souls (they ARE souls in the same > sense as Gods - dead faeries reincarnate as Rhainnion sees fit, and > she is the only one who can fashion new souls). Dragons are this is also according to the world of darkness right? though the description of the fairies seem to fit in perfectly, except for that rhainnon part > reincarnated according to how pure they were to the draconic ideal > (ie. a paragon who died before undergoing the Ritual will be reborn > as a gemstone, Night Dragons souls are not reborn - they are > destroyed). hmm one of those dragon magazines mentioned that dragons who havent behaved. (acted according to their alignment) could be reincarnated into pocket dragons (Maybe there is hope for Synn anyway) Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:16:30 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > I'm with Haavard on this one, except for the other dimension thing. IMC, > the Beagle is from a civilization that exists at the hub of the galaxy > (as described in the Immortals' (original) set)- this hub is soooo darned > far away from everything else (don't remember offhand- but it's like > millions of billions of trillions of lightyears away) that even at > lightspeed, it would take forever and a day to reach Mystara (hence, the > reason for the lack of a rescue mission?). The Beagle slipped through > some sort of magical spacial anomaly, like a dimension door or a gate or > something, and ended up in Mystara's section of space. > > One idea, along these lines, that I have toyed with, is a campaign set in > the hub of the universe- a sort of star wars kind of campaign. There > would be the green skinned Beagle humans, an empire of Rakasta (they are > said to have come from space originally), a plutocracy of Planar Spiders > (maybe this is their original home?), plus some Aranea and Adaptors (another > mysterious race) among others. There would be little to no magic out this > way, perhaps due to the closeness of the hub to the center of things, and > it wouldn't exist among the humans at any rate (otherwise, why should > they be surprised at its existence on Mystara?) > Ive been toying with similar ideas myself. I had this huge Elven empire which used plant ships, like those in spelljammer, but more ispired by Torg's Space Gods actually. I figured these elves would have the magic resistance of dwarves since the radiation out in the hub would be quite high. (as mentioned in the Immortals set) The problem with this is that it makes the stuff thats happening on Mystara so little important. Why would the immortals care about the Thyatian Empire if there was a universe teeming with life out there. So i really dont know... Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 04:22:32 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > Ive been toying with similar ideas myself. I had this huge Elven empire > which used plant ships, like those in spelljammer, but more ispired by > Torg's Space Gods actually. I figured these elves would have the magic > resistance of dwarves since the radiation out in the hub would be quite > high. (as mentioned in the Immortals set) > > The problem with this is that it makes the stuff thats happening on > Mystara so little important. Why would the immortals care about the > Thyatian Empire if there was a universe teeming with life out there. > So i really dont know... > I've run into the same problems, but I've come up with a theory or two. 1) The Beagle is specifically mentioned to have difficulties comprehending magic- it did not exist where they came from. This leads me to the theory that, for whatever reason (I haven't come up with one yet), Mystara's area of space seems to be much higher in the magic department than anywhere else in the universe. Reason for the immortals to be concerned with that area of space? Maybe. This is only a half thought out theory, remember. Potential problems I see: a) there is increasing evidence that radiation is in some part responsible for the immortals' powers (Rafiel, Rad, Benekander). If this is the case, would not a scientific race have a greater chance of discovering the secrets of immortality than a primitive one? b) well, there are probably more, but a) seems to be the major one. 2) Perhaps the immortals that are concerned with Mystara reflect only the barest number of immortals in the universe. Certainly, some of them seem to have less interest in the affairs of Mystara than others, and it is not inconceivable that many roam the cosmos, doing their own thing. I rather like this theory, as it meshes with my concept of the immortals- sort of the way Frank Mentzer originally designed them; as a sort of race of cosmic scientists. Endowed with powers beyond mortals, they roam the cosmos discovering new things, experimenting with the forces they see. Other than these admittedly half baked theories, though, I don't really have an answer for you. I haven't spent as much time thinking it out, concentrating my efforts more on the planet and mortal problems than the larger issues at stake. Though, I'll let you know when I've thought it through a bit more, if I come up with anything good. ;) ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 12:31:13 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] unresearched Mystara immortals On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, Nightshade wrote: > > There is also, as I believe has been noted at some point, a goddess > > mentioned in X11- Saga of the Shadowlord (can't remember the name offhand...) > > Idris. In my campaign this was just another guise for Hel. I like > to use the idea that one god or goddess can be known to different > cultures as several different names (using various-shaped avatars to > fufill the duties). It saves on time and keeps the number of one- > shot gods to a minimum. > I agree that we should keep the gods to a minimum...but Hel? It just doesnt fit. I have problems seeng Hel as a real badguy. Even though she has done a lot to diserve that label. Idriss' tacticts seem more like thanatos or perhaps one of his younger fellow Immortals. Hel is just death. You cant fight her... Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Igor Betti Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:38:58 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mystara] Limbo Time The problem with time in Limbo is: For simplicity with w1 I refer to Limbo, while with w2 I speak of the known world. Time passed on the two world w1 w2 first day 1 hour second day 2 hours third day 3 hours ..... ..... n-th day n hours Lets suppose that 2 people (everyone of them know about timw in limbo), say A and B die but in different time. A goes in limbo on the first hour of the first day of years in the world w2. A stay in limbo for 10 days that corresponds to 55 hours on world w2. B dies 55 hour after A' s death and reaches limbo. After another 5 days they talk about w2 world. For A on w2 world are passed 120 hours (0.5*n*(n+1)), while for B are passed only 15 hour. If they have a medium for scrying the w2 world, what are they able to see ? The problem arises when more then one characters goes on limbo, and considering that perhaps on limbo there are thousands of soul one can imagine the confusion. Perhaps if we want to think about time in limbo we can find many others problems, like: what happens when A and B of previous example find a gate and walk trhough it together ? **************************************************************************** Balinor "Silverblade" Audriel A Shadow Elf from another Worl In real life: Betti Igor **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 09:33:50 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] unresearched Mystara immortals > > Idris. In my campaign this was just another guise for Hel. I like > > to use the idea that one god or goddess can be known to different > > cultures as several different names (using various-shaped avatars to > > fufill the duties). It saves on time and keeps the number of one- > > shot gods to a minimum. > > > I agree that we should keep the gods to a minimum...but Hel? > It just doesnt fit. I have problems seeng Hel as a real badguy. Even > though she has done a lot to diserve that label. > Idriss' tacticts seem more like thanatos or perhaps one of his younger > fellow Immortals. Hel is just death. You cant fight her... > Haavard Faanes No. Think about it this way, Idris influenced (read: corrupted) a horde of barbarians to enslave the surrounding tribes and create the Kingdom of Essuria, then she (Idris is assigned a female gender - although this is tangental proof only) gives them the Blackstick (made Staff in my game) which corrupts the user _and_ deal with the dead. All this fits Hel's minimal effort policy, and keeps her on top of the Hel-Nyx-Orcus-Thanatos conflict over the sole rulership of all undead. In my game, a necromancer recovered the Blackstaff and killed Teriak, then became the next Shadowlord. Because he (and the party in part One) had thwarted Idris/Hel in her bid for power with Teriak, Nyx saved his life when "Idris" appeared to settle the score. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #64 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #65 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, 15 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 065 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nightshade" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 09:39:47 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Limbo > > In my game I use a less problematic Land of the Dead. I took the > > WW game Wraith and it's sourcebook on the Tempest (it's "Plane") and > > used that to describe the afterlife. Animals have simple, easily > > controlled (and destroyed) souls, as do mythic creatures. Humanoids > > are treated in the same vein as normal souls, without the physical > > body, all the dead are equal (ie. an ogre's soul isn't stronger than > > a hin's). Faeries do not have souls (they ARE souls in the same > > sense as Gods - dead faeries reincarnate as Rhainnion sees fit, and > > she is the only one who can fashion new souls). Dragons are > this is also according to the world of darkness right? Correct. > though the description of the fairies seem to fit in perfectly, except > for that rhainnon part The faeries part comes from Dragon 155 and PC 1. > > reincarnated according to how pure they were to the draconic ideal > > (ie. a paragon who died before undergoing the Ritual will be reborn > > as a gemstone, Night Dragons souls are not reborn - they are > > destroyed). > hmm one of those dragon magazines mentioned that dragons who havent behaved. > (acted according to their alignment) could be reincarnated into pocket > dragons (Maybe there is hope for Synn anyway) Those are dragons who must serve a period of time (measured in lifetimes) as pocket dragons for crimes which do not warrant wholesale destruction of the soul. This is just an off-the-cuff answer using the base logic. My campaign doesn't use this. Drakes (from Dragon 146? - substitutes for pocket dragons), wyverns, thunderheads and the like are all dragon-kin, mutated bloodlines which have bred pure. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:04:43 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] I need TPO -> OD&D conversion data > On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, Nightshade wrote: > > > I bought the 1994 edition of The Primal Order (the generic > > pantheon and god sourcebook with conversion rules for umpteen dozen > > games) and I know that the first one had TSR conversion notes (that > > were removed from later editions for legal reasons). TSR may think > > something was wrong with the info, but I don't (and, judging from the > > number of other companies whose games are supported at the back of > > the book, most other companies share my PoV) and I need the info. > > > > SO *exhale* If you have the first edition of TPO, or you have the > > conversion notes laying around, could someone please send them to me? > > I will be more than greatful. Thank You. > > Just on the off chance someone was considering sending this to the > list I have to say: Please don't. It sounds like potential copyright > infringement and should be kept to private e-mail. (Which _is_ what > Nightshade asked for, but better safe than sorry). > Sorry if this seems heavy-handed or intrusive. Thanks Leroy, now whoever has this information will be scared to death to admit it bacause of potential legal problems. The supplement is out of print - WotC has killed the line (and since it was in-house, was never sold off after they gutted their RPG divsion). As for TSR's problem with the book - just look at the 1994 edition, listed in the back are the rules for over 20 systems, produced by almost as many companies, including FASA, Steve Jackson, and ICE. If these corps think TPO isn't infringing on their trademarks/copyrights/what-have-you, I think I'm on pretty sure ground. No. I did not say post it on the list. I knew that would get me blacklisted and cut off. Don't people see how much has changed in a year and a half? Last year we wouldn't have even discussed this, the info would on half a dozen archives and FTP sites, but now it's all "tremble at the might of Connie and the TSR Legal dept." I have a hard enough time trying to understand how the US can use the CDA to shut down almost all R and X+ rated on the net internationally, simply because the signal has to be bounced off one of their satelites. I know I sound like I'm ranting but please, please, please stop stifling people. I'm trying to put together a campaign that has been planned for 3 years, that has been played for 2 years now. I need those rules. I could make them up, but the time involved would be too costly. So, finally, if there is anyone out there that has those rules, please, I beg you, please send them; air mail, snail mail, courier, email, skywrite them, whatever. Post it from one of those anon servers in Europe, leave them behind the third urinal on the second floor, but please don't be frightened that Elminster and friends are going to knock down your door and cast Sepia Snake Sigil. Thank You. > > > Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. > I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. > The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Tiamat, _Darkglory_ > > HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 15:01:30 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Princess Ark On Thu, 25 Jan 1996 20:12:18 -0500, wrote: >This sounds like a great idea, but they probably would have thought it was >competing with the SpellJammer novels... You can't compare magical flying ships to the Spelljammer setting. The interesting thing about the Ark series was the discovery of previously unknown countries, a different approach at countries of the Known World. There didn't necessarily have to be encounters in space above Mystara. IMHO Spelljammer was one of the worst settings ever done, just too silly. If they wanted to connect their different campaign worlds easily they should have done Planescape earlier. >On a somewhat related note, what is the consensus of opinion on the Champions >of Mystara material? Is it just a repeat of the Princess Ark series, or does >it have much new information? Sorry, but I don't own it yet, though I recently found a store who has some out of print stuff I'm longing for. They put away the Champions box for me (they said they have several, for all interested Germans) and I bought the HW box. Whoa, what a lucky day.:) Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 15:32:55 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:15:59 +0100 (ME, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: >I agree, that the idea isnt too bad. Still I like the idea of the Kobolds >making their place in the world. And as the rise of the kobolds scenario >is happening in the Northern reaches as well... Both ideas aren't too bad, what I can't understand is that the idea of Kol being a Shadow Elf is widely damned. So okay, don't use it but don't condemn it, it's some nice thinking and in for a nice story twist or two. The rise in the Northern Reaches is interesting as well. How about terribly successful humanoids from the Reaches learn somehow of Kol's true heritage and marching and crawling for New Kolland to overthrow the impostor. >I dont know...but why did the new almanac not support the idea of Kol >being a Shadowelf? The new almanac definitely has no value for me. My player would like it, if they were fluent in English, as it is not so, I wasted my money. Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 15:31:26 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) At 04.22 14/02/96 -0700, Cthulhudrew wrote: >On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > >> The problem with this is that it makes the stuff thats happening on >> Mystara so little important. Why would the immortals care about the >> Thyatian Empire if there was a universe teeming with life out there. >> So i really dont know... >> >I've run into the same problems, but I've come up with a theory or two. > >1) The Beagle is specifically mentioned to have difficulties >comprehending magic- it did not exist where they came from. This leads me >to the theory that, for whatever reason (I haven't come up with one yet), >Mystara's area of space seems to be much higher in the magic department >than anywhere else in the universe. Reason for the immortals to be >concerned with that area of space? Maybe. This is only a half thought out >theory, remember. Potential problems I see: a) there is increasing >evidence that radiation is in some part responsible for the immortals' >powers (Rafiel, Rad, Benekander). If this is the case, would not a >scientific race have a greater chance of discovering the secrets of >immortality than a primitive one? b) well, there are probably more, but >a) seems to be the major one. > >2) Perhaps the immortals that are concerned with Mystara reflect only the >barest number of immortals in the universe. Certainly, some of them seem >to have less interest in the affairs of Mystara than others, and it is >not inconceivable that many roam the cosmos, doing their own thing. I >rather like this theory, as it meshes with my concept of the immortals- >sort of the way Frank Mentzer originally designed them; as a sort of race >of cosmic scientists. Endowed with powers beyond mortals, they roam the >cosmos discovering new things, experimenting with the forces they see. > I like this second theory too. We should also say that many among the Mystaran immortals spent their mortal life in Mystara (Rafiel was a scientist in Blackmoor, Atruaghin was an Azcan, Ilsundal an elf..), so is normal that their main interest is this world and specifically their race. In this way you can put the various TSR worlds in the same universe with many different immortals (or gods). And then there are the Old Ones: the supervisors of this big universe. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr brizio@lunet.it Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: kaelin@natural.com (Robert Kaelin) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:28:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] I need TPO -> OD&D conversion data Sorry Nightshade, I have to. I love this arguement. (Allow me to paraphrase.) "I want these rules. Well, my time is too busy and valuable to make up the rules myself. What? Someone else went to all the trouble to make the rules? Cool! What? They expected to be paid for their work when they did it? Well...can someone send it to me for free? What do you mean it's illegal? It's so easy to steal from them, it must be legal! Hey, my time is important, but some game designers time is cheaper then dirt." I'm sure all those stores that people mention on the lists every now and then that stock a lot of out-of-date role-playing stuff could help you out. And people wonder why all the lesser rpg companies are dropping like flies... - -Bob Ya, who do you hurt by devaluing the work by a good games designer anyway? > >Thanks Leroy, now whoever has this information will be scared to >death to admit it bacause of potential legal problems. The >supplement is out of print - WotC has killed the line (and since it >was in-house, was never sold off after they gutted their RPG >divsion). As for TSR's problem with the book - just look at the 1994 >edition, listed in the back are the rules for over 20 systems, >produced by almost as many companies, including FASA, Steve Jackson, >and ICE. If these corps think TPO isn't infringing on their >trademarks/copyrights/what-have-you, I think I'm on pretty sure >ground. > > No. I did not say post it on the list. I knew that would get me >blacklisted and cut off. Don't people see how much has changed in a >year and a half? Last year we wouldn't have even discussed this, the >info would on half a dozen archives and FTP sites, but now it's all >"tremble at the might of Connie and the TSR Legal dept." I have a >hard enough time trying to understand how the US can use the CDA to >shut down almost all R and X+ rated on the net internationally, >simply because the signal has to be bounced off one of their >satelites. I know I sound like I'm ranting but please, please, >please stop stifling people. I'm trying to put together a campaign >that has been planned for 3 years, that has been played for 2 years >now. I need those rules. I could make them up, but the time >involved would be too costly. > > So, finally, if there is anyone out there that has those rules, >please, I beg you, please send them; air mail, snail mail, courier, >email, skywrite them, whatever. Post it from one of those anon >servers in Europe, leave them behind the third urinal on the second >floor, but please don't be frightened that Elminster and friends are >going to knock down your door and cast Sepia Snake Sigil. > >Thank You. > > > > >> >> >> Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. >> I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. >> The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Tiamat, _Darkglory_ >> >> > HICKEY MATTHEW > St.Thomas University > Fredericton, N.B., Canada > Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 17:53:25 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shadow Elf Invasion On Fri, 26 Jan 96 21:31:00 -0500, Shelby Michlin wrote: >Well Andrea, I really enjoyed the Gazetteer series. My head swam with the >possibilities for adventure and exploration that occured to me as I read >them (I bought most of them all at once, when I decided that I would >incorporate them into my campaign world). You lucky one! I just aquired 4 more Gazetteers, now there are only seven left to find.:( >There is more that is detailed there than I could run for my players in many years of real time. Most of >the descriptions really run concurrently from supplement to supplement. I >was such a great fan, I was extremely disappointed at the prospect of >destroying so much of that wondrous setting in one fell swoop, i.e. with the >release of such an all-encompassing, world-warping supplement (subsequent >supplements simply compounding the problem). From the material in the Gaz you can run many campaign, as it is so full of interesting stuff. But I don't see quite your problem. WotI isn't that world-destroying. Okay, Alphatia is gone, Canolbarth Forest changed and some Principalities of Glantri were victims of the Crater. But you can still use all the other Gaz. Karameikos being independent is no problem, Five Shires didn't change that much, Ierendi's still a tourist paradise etc. The only subsequent supplements were the Almanacs, since the Karameikos and Glantri boxes brought nothing new for owners of the Gaz. >Not only do I lose the opportunity to share all of the original series in >play with my players, but I have the future of my campaign decided for me, >without any input from either me or my players. Finally, if I choose to >ignore all of these changes, I find that later supplements (quality aside; >I find the older supplements superior anyway) are for the most part unusable >if I do not choose to abide by the T$R future timeline. But you could use WotI in a different campaign and if you wanted to introduce stuff from the Gaz, why not play 100 years earlier or so? Besides from the Almanacs, WotI was the last supplement ever worth mentioning, oops I forgot Champions of Mystara. If the mentioned later supplements are the adventures like "Hail the Heroes", forget them. Simplistic modules with simplistic CDs. Okay, I don't want to force you to use WotI, but I'm sorry that so few of the people here appreciate the great spectrum of this particular campaign. >Do you see now? Not quite.;) Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 18:04:03 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] 1000 AC vs 1014 AC (was: Shadow Elf Invasion) On Sat, 27 Jan 1996 11:55:55 -0500 (ES, Daniel Boese wrote: >went before. Personally, I prefer the fact that they actually published >more info for Mystara, rather than just let it drop along with Basic D&D. I've been very excited when I read about the conversion in DRAGON magazine. I had the idea of getting much more interesting Mystara related stuff. And what have they done? Two campaign boxes, which seem to be pretty boring for owners of the corresponding Gazetteers, some adventures with steep prices and silly CDs, and some tidbits for players and DM which you don't need, with nothing new about Mystara, and last and least Joshuan's Almanac. They have very largely disappointed me. There would have been endless possibilities... Does anyone know exactly, why they dropped the line? And is RED STEEL such a success that it still lives on? In DRAGON #225 I read something about Tim Beach, "the writer of the widely acclaimed RED STEEL"... Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 18:40:03 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Copyright Stuff (was: Your Whining Admin...) On Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:05:33 -0500 (ES, Daniel Boese wrote: >Does anybody have the email address of the person(s) at TSR who is >willing to discuss what is and isn't a violation? My main concern >currently is the Timeline I posted (and am still adding to (and am >accepting factoids for :) ) ), but I'd also like to know what >they think about quoting parts of Dragon, modules, Gazzes, the >Cyclopedia, and such. And if someone sends you such an adress, could you please ask if it were a violation to post events for 1013 and 1014 AC since the line is cancelled? Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:49:06 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] I need TPO -> OD&D conversion data > Sorry Nightshade, I have to. > > I love this arguement. (Allow me to paraphrase.) > > "I want these rules. Well, my time is too busy and valuable to make up the > rules myself. What? Someone else went to all the trouble to make the > rules? Cool! What? They expected to be paid for their work when they did > it? Well...can someone send it to me for free? What do you mean it's > illegal? It's so easy to steal from them, it must be legal! Hey, my time > is important, but some game designers time is cheaper then dirt." > > I'm sure all those stores that people mention on the lists every now and > then that stock a lot of out-of-date role-playing stuff could help you out. > And people wonder why all the lesser rpg companies are dropping like > flies... > -Bob I already own the book, I paid my $30, I want the info denied to me by the TSR Legal Dept. > Ya, who do you hurt by devaluing the work by a good games designer anyway? The games designer. But TSR has ripped more people off than I care to count, my "New" Forgotten Realms boxed set had nothing new in it but larger font size, larger margins, less actual information and a badly written adventure in it, all for a $10 increase in price. The rules I want, and I repeat, are a single page of information (which is, without TPO, useless) that _was_ present in the first edition, which is no longer in print, which was removed by WotC under threat of legal action by TSR - who, with Palladium are the only companies which pulled out of the TPO, 2 versus 17. I have paid my $30 for the 1994 edition of the book, I did wait three months for the book to come in, my money did go to pay the writers (who are now out of work because of Magic: the Gathering eating up the RPG department of Wizards). I am NOT stealing anything. I am asking for information that should have been in the damn product I purchased. I wanted the first edition, I knew that the info was stripped from the 1994 one, but the first edition was out of print. My store's distributors didn't have a damn copy of the first edition, they managed to get me the 1994 editon (for which I am, as a paying customer, am greatful). I am not asking for 100% scanned copies of all the PHB guides, or modules. I am asking for someone like me, who owns a copy of TPO, who has the missing OD&D conversion rules, to send them to me, an owner of a copy of TPO. I do not see the problem here. To reiterate: - - 1st ed. Primal Order: had the OD&D conversion rules - - 1994 ed. Primal Order: does not have the conversion rules - - WotC has killed its RPG dept., rights to the Primal Order were not sold to another company, TPO is effectively dead and out of print. My request: - - that whoever has the 1st edition, or the conversion rules from the first edition, send them to me. I have paid my $30, if you people want to be this f***ing anal about it I can scan you a copy of the receipt to prove I'm not "taking money out of the mouths of starving RPG writers or multi-million dollar gaming corporations". I'm so very sorry to the people who have to read this rant/flame, but from a simple, and polite, request for information I have received more flame mail than I care to count. To you who have to suffer through this I apologize, for those who still think I'm ripping off TSR - BITE ME! HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 20:18:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > Date: Wednesday, 14-Feb-96 04:22 AM > From: Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One \ Internet: (jsmill@imap1.asu.edu) > To: Post to Mystara-L \ Internet: (mystara-l@io.com) > cc: Post to Mystara-L \ Internet: (mystara-l@io.com) > Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) > 1) The Beagle is specifically mentioned to have difficulties comprehending > magic- it did not exist where they came from. This leads me to the theory > that, for whatever reason (I haven't come up with one yet), Mystara's area of > space seems to be much higher in the magic department than anywhere else in > the universe. Reason for the immortals to be concerned with that area of > space? Maybe. This is only a half thought out theory, remember. Potential > problems I see: a) there is increasing evidence that radiation is in some part > responsible for the immortals' powers (Rafiel, Rad, Benekander). If this is > the case, would not a scientific race have a greater chance of discovering the > secrets of immortality than a primitive one? b) well, there are probably more, > but a) seems to be the major one. - -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- Well, this was a theory I'd never taken too far, but perhaps it will be of some use. My campaign world was originally designed to be extremely small, about the size of a moon. I wanted a managable planet, but I also wanted normal gravity, atmosphere etc. So I hypothesized that the planet's body contained a great deal of some super-heavy substance, just dripping with magic (some sort of "radiation?"). This gave me everything I wanted, and gave me a way to grow into (possibly) Ley lines, "The Magic Goes Away" (pre- Rad, remember), explanations of various materials suitable for magic items, amulets/foci, etc. I also wanted to make the planet accessible to science fiction starships (remember, pre-Spelljammer); how to have a magic-using planet in our universe? The magical ore! Now my Traveller ships could theoretically encounter my D&D world, if I so chose. They could even take a chunk of the ore with them, and having learned magic, shake up my Traveller campaign someday. When the Hollow World came out, I said "no problemo!" Devastating explosions , the result of the nuclear reactors, threaten to rip the world apart, through some sort of science/magic chain-reaction/interaction, whatever. The gods step in and influence the outcome. The result is the Hollow World; in my case, my Mystara now has increased surface area, the practically indestructable shell within the crust, magic continues but is wierd inside, and the populations that would've been lost have been relocated, along with their cultures. What do you think? Helpful to anyone, at least? Shelby ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 23:57:52 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > >2) Perhaps the immortals that are concerned with Mystara reflect only the > >barest number of immortals in the universe. Certainly, some of them seem > >to have less interest in the affairs of Mystara than others, and it is > >not inconceivable that many roam the cosmos, doing their own thing. I > >rather like this theory, as it meshes with my concept of the immortals- > >sort of the way Frank Mentzer originally designed them; as a sort of race > >of cosmic scientists. Endowed with powers beyond mortals, they roam the > >cosmos discovering new things, experimenting with the forces they see. > > > I like this second theory too. We should also say that many among the > Mystaran immortals spent their mortal life in Mystara (Rafiel was a > scientist in Blackmoor, Atruaghin was an Azcan, Ilsundal an elf..), so is > normal that their main interest is this world and specifically their race. > In this way you can put the various TSR worlds in the same universe with > many different immortals (or gods). > And then there are the Old Ones: the supervisors of this big universe. Also, it just occurred to me, doesn't it say somewhere that some of the immortals (specifically, Khoronus- I can't think of any others offhand) came from civilizations on planets other than Mystara? If so, this lends credence to this viewpoint, IMO... ------------------------------ From: Igor Betti Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:25:24 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mystara] Limbo Time (Again) Let' s watch another problem with limbo time. This time I will use 3 characters let' s say A, B, C. A dies and goes in limbo, after 10 days of his permanecy B goes in limbo too. After another 10 days they are reached by C. So I can summarize the problem as: ________________ A B C 10 - - Days passed in Limbo. 20 10 - 30 20 10 ________________ To find what time passes on real world one can use the formula: Hours = days * (days + 1) / 2 C is resurrected but after 31 hours on real world he dies again. Because C passes 31 hours on real world and A has already passed 30 days on Limbo, C appears the next day (That is to say that A see C on the 31th day). The 31th day for A it means the 21th days for B so he cannot see C because B on the 21th days sees people who died on th 21th hours in the real world, not on the 31th hour. My solution is: there exist many limbo, one for each time instant, so when a character dies he goes in limbo whit every person who dies in the same moment, and his limbo is different from the limbo where goes who dies after or before him. If you have another solution please tell me. PS. I' m a student in Physics so I' m very involved in time problems. I beg your pardon if my mail is confusing. **************************************************************************** Balinor "Silverblade" Audriel E-mail address: A Shadow Elf from another Worl df160145@ipifidpt.difi.unipi.it Web page: In real life: Betti Igor http://ipifidpt.difi.unipi.it/~df160145 **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #65 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #66 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Saturday, 17 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 066 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 23:37:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Word from Admin (was: I need TPO -> OD&D conversion data) On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, Nightshade wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, Nightshade wrote: [Request for rules, and my reminder not to put them on the list snipped] > Thanks Leroy, now whoever has this information will be scared to > death to admit it bacause of potential legal problems. I am sorry if the is the result, but it is unlikely. If someone was going to send it I doubt if my little reminder not to put it on the list is going to mean much. But I will not apologize for the post for several reasons... 1) The following entry is from the FAQ... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: Such and such Mystara product is out of print. Can I ask someone on the list to type/scan/copy it for me? A: Anyone that engages in blatant copyright infringement on the list will get a warning. Further violations will result in a ban from the list. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Although it says Mystara stuff, it should be obvious that this applies to all game stuff. The FAQ is essentially the rules of the list in question and answer form. 2) Not everyone has seen the FAQ, so a little reminder from me lets them know what is acceptable in the case. On the average we get one new subscriber to this list every two days, and I don't recognize any of them. So, there is a chance they have never seen the FAQ, and I don't want to set a precedent here. 3) I am on 13+ mailing lists, and I have seen many similar posts from their administrators. It is standard procedure. 4) I agree with your sentiments that it is sad that things have become how they are. But it _is_ how they are, and I must act accordingly. The fact is, I am responsible for this list, and, by extension, so is Illuminati Online. You will notice that I did not direct anything at you, only issuing a reminder that such things shouls continue in private e-mail. This is probably becasue I think your request is reasonable > satelites. I know I sound like I'm ranting but please, please, > please stop stifling people. I'm trying to put together a campaign Is this directed at me? Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 14:46:28 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Those Specialty Priests!! On Thu, 01 Feb 1996 09:31:18 CST, Michael S Lewis wrote: >Bruce, thanks a lot for posting all these specialty priests! I intend to use >these in a new campaign I have starting up in a month or two (assuming you >don't mind ;> ). Do I remember correctly that you used the Skills & Powers >book as a guide to construct these? I don't have this book; do many of the >listers find it useful? The statistics seemed to be from The Codex of the Immortals, which is part of the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set. Right or wrong? Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: JOEGERBER@delphi.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 09:22:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) Actually, Khoronus *is* originally from Mystara (Blackmoor's pre-tech age), but he left with some loyal followers after seeing the future destruction of Blackmoor (see book 1 of "Wrath of the Immortals", p 25). But, you're right, several other Immortals (Alphaks, Nyx, Rad, Razud, and Terra from WotI) are from other planets (or, even other planes and dimensions). And, of course, there's those folks who might not be from any planet, but spontaneous creations of nature. My very IMHO on Benekander (I don't really know whether or not to place him in the above list, just as I'm not sure whether his [Immortal] age should be 9 yeras or c 6000 years) and Rad's origins is an extension of what is given in Wrath of the Immortals. I view the *entire* Mystaran "known" multiverse as a series of 3-spaces inside of a single 4-space. I view Old Averoigne, Benekder'shome world, the AD&D multiverse, etc. as seperate and distinct 4-spaces within a single 5-space; each 4-space has its own corresponding set of 3-spaces. This does raise some interesting questions for all you Immortal-level PC's out there; such as how did certain races develop "cross-dimensional", and where did the inspiritaition for for common created races come from? Wow--my de-lurk and I'm already talking Metaphysics that only someone with a 18+ Int can understand... Joe Gerber ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 15:14:07 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Replies to Digests #40-58 On Mon, 5 Feb 1996 18:56:24 -0500 (EST, Sir George Anonymous wrote: >Personally, I've used Mystara for AD&D since the Expert set came out (1981?) I've always just >converted things to meet my needs. I'd prefer to see AD&D stats, but it's not too difficult to >convert things either way. I don't view Kol being a Shadow Elf as "a cheap AD&D trick." I >think it was probably planned. I started using Mystara after the first PWA came out, and I converted it to AD&D. The fascination of this world has nothing to do with its rules system. >As for the WotI timeline, I like it. One of the complaints I've heard against it is that a gaming >group doesn't get to feel the ambiance of the setting before TSR goes and changes it. Well, my >group has been together for four years now, and the PC's are all 6-8th level. They've seen many >sites, proven themselves to be worthy adventurers, and are just reaching the point where they can >become some of the movers and shakers in the Known World. Now I have 10 years of future >history to use as a guideline, and I'm looking forward to using WotI. It's great to have a world >that will evolve with the PC's, and I especially love the sections indicating how the PC's can >influence events. As I've often declared, I love WotI and the PWAs. I don't use the set in my campaign, but perhaps I will use it in another campaign, starting around 995 AC, why not. It is very satisfying for players and DM alike to feel reactions on your deeds, world-shaking events and the like and there's nothing quite like this campaign set. And you seem to like the same things than me, I just love this lists with what the PCs can do and what happens when they get involved. Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 15:20:33 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hollow Worlds and asteroids. On Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:13:30 -0500, Robert Kaelin wrote: >the nucleus. I think "Mark of Amber" makes it relatively clear that at >least the Old Ones blame Rad for the war (which is why they take away his >immortal standing and punish him.) Or do you think the Old Ones are afraid >of change as well? :-) Could you please tell me something about this module? Is it worth its money? What levels are necessary, what is the plot and the connection to Castle Amber, can you recommend it? My players are planning a trip to post- war Glantri... Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 15:22:58 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara languages v 1.2 On Tue, 6 Feb 1996 22:31:10 -0500 (EST, D.J. Sahlas wrote: > Yes, in DA1 on the signpost of the Comeback Inn. In my own >campaign, descendants of the Thonian Empire founded the Thyatian. Hence >my predilection for basing other countries' languages on Thyatian (like >Glantri) What the heck is the Thonian Empire? Something from the old modules? I recently read the timeline of the HW box, but never heard anything about Thonians. Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: Andrea Stadtfeld Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 15:53:05 CST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old answers and new questions On Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:47:02 -0800 (PST, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > Yeah, that was me. I have the e-version, and it is still the same >thing (which I won't spoil for players that may be on the list). > Since we will probably never see a new version, we won't get to see >what they would have changed it to. Oh well, I like it as it is. Let me see. In AOL you can get electronic versions of Gazetteers? Do you have to pay any fees or are they free? A friend of mine just got an AOL account... How do you access the e-version? Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 11:22:24 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hollow Worlds and asteroids. On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Anias Pasi wrote: > > > OH, Mr R.Kaelin allready noted two points I was going to post too... > But here is two more... > > > I'd buy Terra sponsoring the WoTI, by the way. Holy Wars to prevent > > changes seems right up her alley. > NO WAY! wars dont prevent changes, they make them. And Terra is an old > enough immortal to know that. She would not sponsor the war. > /That is, not our Terra anyway, yours might... No, Terra is a peaceloving > immortal by all means, mother Earth and everything, She would oppose a > war that would surely be the death of many a man and bunny. [SNIP the science ethics debate. Wanna talk about it, email me instead of the list] Umm, then why is the fighter the favoured class of being for the sphere of matter ? Because (in general) the fighters and the military are the least changeable people ? We all know about repressive real-world military govenrments doing their best to stifle people's freedom to think and to change, and while all rulers in a fantasy environment are to a certain extent autocratic, the fighters are by neccesity the ones most distrustful of freedom and change - because they have fewer optional responses to a threath to their rule than thieves, priests, or mages. Outright violence seldom gains much once people HAVE begun to change - so you have to stop the ideas and the changes before they begin, neh ? This doesn't hold true for everyone, of course - but the classical warrior-king wouldn't be happy about people getting ideas such as republics or free cities ;) And wars do prevent changes. They drain resources that could be used to develop new innovations, new art, new literature. They might create some social changes - but they're more likely to be regressive than progressive... ------------------------------ From: Bruce Pierpont Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:46:26 -0500 Subject: RE: [Mystara] Those Specialty Priests!! - ---------- From: Andrea Stadtfeld[SMTP:stadtfel@rz.uni-duesseldorf.de] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 1996 3:46 PM To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Those Specialty Priests!! On Thu, 01 Feb 1996 09:31:18 CST, Michael S Lewis wrote: >>Bruce, thanks a lot for posting all these specialty priests! I intend to use >>these in a new campaign I have starting up in a month or two (assuming you >>don't mind ;> ). Do I remember correctly that you used the Skills & Powers >>book as a guide to construct these? I don't have this book; do many of the >>listers find it useful? >The statistics seemed to be from The Codex of the Immortals, which is >part >of the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set. Right or wrong? >Andrea Stadtfeld Menolly Dragon >Dortmund, Germany -==UDIC==- >e-mail: andrea.stadtfeld@uni-duesseldorf.de The symbols, interests, etc. are all from WotI (Codex) . The alignments were whatever seemed most appropriate from the description. And the granted powers and allowed spheres are all of my own making using S&P as a guide. The granted power listed in WotI is included among the granted powers for the specialty priests. AAny suggestions for improvements are welcome as always. |] |] |]ruce | ierpont begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(BD1`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &``P!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```#\`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!M>7-T87)A+6Q :6\N M8V]M`%--5% `;7ES=&%R82UL0&EO+F-O;0``'@`", $````%````4TU44 `` M```>``,P`0```!$```!M>7-T87)A+6Q :6\N8V]M``````,`%0P!`````P#^ M#P8````>``$P`0```!,````G;7ES=&%R82UL0&EO+F-O;2<```(!"S !```` M%@```%--5% Z35E35$%202U,0$E/+D-/30````,``#D`````"P! .@$````" M`?8/`0````0````````#T"P!"( '`!@```!)4$TN36EC`' ``0```"@```!213H@ M6TUY2!05$<^;(41%4U0`````'@`># $````%````4TU44 `` M```>`!\,`0```"$```!B<&EEL"@P!0 M`O()`@!C: K ]PJ'':OK## > M=D8#83H?_AYV#()I%+!N9!80808``9!D`0`P96QD6U--5 Q0.A/ )$1 =D\#H#LK(2N@,!K0*\$LA# Y$#HS M,3H<4"!#4W)4*Z!-:1%Q)( &`""F3 ?0! `@=QZ".CD<7CX9SQK00'X>=D(K M\&/*92N@=!& ;FL$("0`KQ6@!4 "$ 7 <#>@= N >F=$`&P#($.@!Y WP'/' M-_<34#BD($D@"X 3T.,CP$.0;R!U-[$R74$/7T(?29!%= N 1 %N!]%CY&%M M"K!I9P.@1P`1@,YV1;$Q@43C=7!+A 1@20(P:" %L71W1Z HTF$$$'5M1/)Y M"&!'_\M)#TH?/B: ;B<%0$]1`4=P.SX@*2X@1/]'H$<`%A '@ ;0!)!,$ 6P M^Q80'L!L+#!#H05 3Z)'P5='<46 !@!K`Q!L!" F^2T@;W<$D 0@3^]0_U(/ M&0;@;VM$`$/R9W5I[PVP1X(%H " =$-!!4!%1'*!'86G#!4!'P69U;#\Y'F _OV%/ M+N96D2411.!$T6,$(/\1L%2!1W-4P$1@`V%GPPA0Y0VP>%\F26T$8 `@!T#Z M=@JQ!4!DOVS?.QY?-=Y7,:!.8FJ=7D%X5E$1 ML?54`%),<&AR,07 /S$9$%]D/V_/<-\>A2.^('IK3=<)\ ;P57%$,:!G`B!V M3Z]W7SL>5" `(&TET&0KH Y'!)!>XWIK+3T]5?A$24.!0!^&?"]]/SL>?&4M M`, #$#3 `' CTB[I)19D0"7?93D?.B\:6/]GTP;#:W%'(A80.,$KH!' OF-4 M``K -\!%,FF35QZ0Y4<`*&HC*2!4`&?#!T!_3'$'@ (P/Q&+T6N15<7]&<8_1:816@@VP!/0Q\&[_CD$CL59S"< ` Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 13:40:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Thonia > What the heck is the Thonian Empire? Something from the old modules? I > recently read the timeline of the HW box, but never heard anything about > Thonians. OLD. The Thonia empire once ruled the world practically. Blackmoor rebelled and became a seperate struggling kingdom. Thonia still wants to wipe out Blackmoor(in DA) and kidnaps the king in DA1. Thonia was a corrupt, weak empire basically, which was gold-minded(not a word), er, greedy and self-serving. Thonia was wrecked 1000 yrs later by the Blackmoor explosion, amd became an arctic wasteland visible on the east side of Mystara(map from Player's Masters book) Are your friends as good at killing Firbolgs as you are?-Tristan Kendrick Well, we kind of like to make a hobby of it-Finnellenn, the dwarf ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 13:43:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Message to Bruce Pierpont > begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT > M>)\^(BD1`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` > M`@````(``@`!!) &``P!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ > M`0```#\`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!M>7-T87)A+6Q :6\N Bruce, I just reposted 4 lines of the winmail.dat at the end of each post of yours recently. It goes on for 2 pages and I tried emailing you, but the message bounced back. So, if you can see this garble, fix it and if not, get a new mail program or go back to your old one. ------------------------------ From: jam@wimsey.com (Jenni A. Merrifield) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:52:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Official Files n' Things Hya Listers, I was wondering if Bruce Pierpont's (sorry if I misspelled) Specialty Priests were being stored as an "official" resource of the Mailing list? I think that (assuming he doesn't mind, and assuming we're never told by TSR that we aren't allowed to do so) it would be a pretty good idea. I was also wondering about the mailserver "files" options, and how these things get set up, and whether mystara-l will ever include some of the more popular and useful things there (i.e. the FAQ -- which I've never seen myself, and which it might be useful if it were posted to the list every couple of months...). For those who don't know what I'm talking about, it is possible to send a command to the mailserver requesting a list of files associated with a specific mailing list, and then one can send more commands requesting the files you are interested in. Currently, mystara-l has no files associated -- not even a "welcome to mystara-l" file, which many other mailing lists have and which are provided automagically to new members. Is the process a difficult/time consuming/bureaucratic nightmare? Or is it just that Leroy, our fearless list owner, has been so busy that he hasn't had a chance to take care of these niceities? Is there anyway someone else could take on the job for you Leroy? (assuming we had a copy of said files...) I'd be willing to take care of it, *if* I could, and *if* someone told me how and *if* someone gave me files I don't have and/or told me which files to collect from past digests..... That's it! - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield : ............ -=< strawberryJAMM >=- : Black Holes Are Merely jam@wimsey.com : Where God Divided By Zero http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/ : ............... ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 09:31:57 AST Subject: [Mystara] Leroy van Camp, please mail I was going to ask you something but I deleted you address. HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 14:37:09 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Why don't we... After thinking deeply for several seconds I've come up with new possible fields of research: - - A list of which components a MU needs to create new spells or magical items. For example, I suggest the skin of a displacer beast to create a displacer cloak. - - The price list of such components. In Gaz3 there are rules for selling (or buying) a whole monster according to its HD and *s, but what about part of it. For example the tooth of a dragon or the tail of a wolf. (BTW How many teeth has a dragon ?) We can also fix a standard price for each item and use a chart like the one in Darokin or Minrothad Gaz to find the real price in each country. For example: dragon organs may be cheaper in Aalban then in Thyatis and almost unavailable in Ethengar. - - Extending the wind paths given in the AC1012 map (the green flags on the Sea of Dread) to other areas of the KW, mainly the former Alphatian region up to Norwold and Qeodhar. I don't think generating the weather randomly is very realistic. - - A complete index of the various plans: the official TSR ones, plus the new ones somebody here may have created. We can make some something like a Planar Traveler's Guide. Anybody interested ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr brizio@lunet.it Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 14:10:54 AST Subject: [Mystara] Origins of Hin and Elves? Now that my TPO problems seem to be completely resolved I can move on to more important things - like where do Hin come from. The migratory maps from the Hollow World suggest that the Hin emigrated from Davania to Brun shortly (prehistorically speaking) after the elves, and that both originated from the same general area (post-Blackmoor south-central Davania. Both races share similar facial features (the fines bone structure in the ears and nose), similar outlooks on Life (the philosophy of Djaea, Terra and Ordana) hint at a common ancestry. Any ideas? [PS. for those who do not remember, Hin = Halfling] HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: Randir o Ia Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 09:15:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Announcement: Fantasy News Network Announcing the new and Improved Fantasy News Network: The FNN is a fan supported series of e-zines, dedicated to expanding player's horizons. Each setting will have its own mailing of a bi-monthly news letter. What it will include are as follows: 1.) Full Adventures in Outline format 2.) Rumors and News (descendant of "The Adventurer's Journal") 3.) Interviews with designers and artists 4.) New Art.. (uuencoded in a separate art mailing) 5.) An Editorial Section (on Gaming style) As a rule articles will remain generic in nature (ie you can use all information regardless of the rule system you are using.) But most importantly, we need your support. The FNN only produces that which you send in for publication. To Subscribe send a message to listserver@le.ac.uk Subscribe FNN (your name) Until next.... - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Randir o Ia goehrigd@gort.canisius.edu Moderator of the Fantasy News Network FNN@le.ac.uk Knight of Unsubbing, Nihilist, and Epicurean - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #66 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #67 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 21 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 067 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 18:54:51 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Why don't we... On Fri, 16 Feb 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > We can also fix a standard price for each item and use a chart like the one > in Darokin or Minrothad Gaz to find the real price in each country. For > example: dragon organs may be cheaper in Aalban then in Thyatis and almost > unavailable in Ethengar. yes..interesting altho the entire economics system might need an overhaul > - A complete index of the various plans: the official TSR ones, plus the new > ones somebody here may have created. We can make some something like a > Planar Traveler's Guide. Yes..I ignore all other TSR worlds myself..so our planes dont have to be the same as in planescape(though the can be) > > Anybody interested ? sure Haaverd Faanes ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 16:02:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Poll: Crystal Spheres vs Open Space Well... the results are in, and tallied. For your information, the number of people who prefer Original Open Space: 9 Spelljammer/Spheres: 2 A mix of the two: 1 (hi, Berg! ;) ) Neither: 1 PS: Whoever it was who posted about FNN, thank you! Looks like some people have gotten a head start on post-1013 Almanac things.. :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 09:02:47 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hollow Worlds and asteroids. snip > Umm, then why is the fighter the favoured class of being for the sphere > of matter ? I think farmer is the favourite class of being for the sphere of matter... it just isn't a dd class... :-) ... maby they are fighters... snip > And wars do prevent changes. They drain resources that could be used I am not going to say much to this, but I do have to differ... they just steer the changes to some special causes. Anyways... To clarify my thoughts about the philosphies of sphere of matter: ( and they are just my thoughts... think yourself if you wish :) The sphere of matter is not against changes. After all there are plenty of changes in nature, the real domain of matter and its immortals. Everything changes in a cycle... day becomes night becomes day... summer becomes autum becames winter becames spring becames summer... peoples are born, they live and they die (do they born again... in game... sometimes...), its all in the nature. The spere just is against the unnatural changes. If a fighter becames a legendary hero by protecting his friends and family, the sphere does like it, because its natural to protect ones kin... the same goes to heroes who are against chaos, because it is not natural. Even a war against some invading force is natural and good. But a war of two immortals about rulership, where the immortals use peoples as its pawns and unnatural, gigantic forces are in use, it is not natural nor good. Nor would be a war to invade a neighboring friendly country (unless you really have to :) . And so I do have to say that Terra could not be pro WotI. - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 17:46:47 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Origins of Hin and Elves? On Fri, 16 Feb 1996, Nightshade wrote: > > The migratory maps from the Hollow World suggest that the Hin > emigrated from Davania to Brun shortly (prehistorically speaking) > after the elves, and that both originated from the same general area > (post-Blackmoor south-central Davania. Both races share similar > facial features (the fines bone structure in the ears and nose), > similar outlooks on Life (the philosophy of Djaea, Terra and Ordana) > hint at a common ancestry. Any ideas? > ive been pondering at this cocept myself. If I remember correctly, the elves were created by Djaea (or was it ordana, i tend to mix these up) after the elves migrate north, the hin appear more in the central part of davania. The Halflings could be created from elves, probably by terra or one of the others mentioned above. The Hin are shorter, closer to the earth, have more common sense than elves and are less arrogant. My guess is that Hin are related to elves in a way similar to that of dwarves and gnomes. Linking Hin to a specific immortal is harder though because they dont seem to be very religious. This is strange, though if you view worship of the immortals as hero-worship, then this idea is probably too american for the Hin. > [PS. for those who do not remember, Hin = Halfling] and one dwarf (pl. many dwarves)= denwarf (pl. many denwarves?) Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 18:04:46 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mystara] [mystara] Matter (was Re: Hollow Worlds and asteroids.) On Tue, 20 Feb 1996, Anias Pasi wrote: > snip > > Umm, then why is the fighter the favoured class of being for the sphere > > of matter ? > I think farmer is the favourite class of being for the sphere of matter... > it just isn't a dd class... :-) ... maby they are fighters... > > snip > > And wars do prevent changes. They drain resources that could be used > I am not going to say much to this, but I do have to differ... > they just steer the changes to some special causes. "The war is the father of all things" -Heraklit conflict create changes. > > Anyways... To clarify my thoughts about the philosphies of sphere of matter: > ( and they are just my thoughts... think yourself if you wish :) > > The sphere of matter is not against changes. > After all there are plenty of changes in nature, the real domain of > matter and its immortals. Everything changes in a cycle... day becomes > night becomes day... summer becomes autum becames winter becames spring > becames summer... peoples are born, they live and they die (do they > born again... in game... sometimes...), its all in the nature. The > spere just is against the unnatural changes. If a fighter becames > a legendary hero by protecting his friends and family, the sphere > does like it, because its natural to protect ones kin... the same > goes to heroes who are against chaos, because it is not natural. Even > a war against some invading force is natural and good. But a war > of two immortals about rulership, where the immortals use peoples > as its pawns and unnatural, gigantic forces are in use, it is not > natural nor good. Nor would be a war to invade a neighboring friendly > country (unless you really have to :) . And so I do have to say that Terra > could not be pro WotI. Death is againts Matters interest i think, though maybe not in a philosofical sense. But Matter is about enduring time, death is not. Elves and other longlived creatures are influenceb by matter in this way. Matter favours Law, Law is not stasis, but stability. Change to preserve is a conservative motto. What do you think? Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 16:51:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Looking for the TPO Guy... All right, I admit it. I have forgotten who I was talking with about The Primal Order. Could this person please drop me a line? Thanks. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 15:00:11 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Word from Admin (was: I need TPO -> OD&D conversion data) At 23.37 14/02/96 -0800, our administrator wrote: > >2) Not everyone has seen the FAQ You're right, I'm one of those who didn't read the FAQ. Where can I find them ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr brizio@lunet.it Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 08:53:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Word from Admin (was: I need TPO -> OD&D conversion data) On Wed, 21 Feb 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 23.37 14/02/96 -0800, our administrator wrote: > > > > >2) Not everyone has seen the FAQ > > You're right, I'm one of those who didn't read the FAQ. Where can I find them ? Right here... -- CREDIT -- In the belief of giving credit where credit is due, this FAQ was based on the GURPSnet-L FAQ, which was written by Sean Barrett, who is also the author of GURPS Lensmen. It's a good book. Check it out. Additional changes were made on the advise of Sir George Anonymous. --- INTRODUCTION --- Mystara is one TSR's fantasy game settings for use with it's xD&D games, and the Mystara Mailing List is for discussing this setting. In addition, the list is also a place for discussing the Original Dungeons and Dragons game. --- HOW TO SUB, POST, AND UNSUB --- Q: How do I subscribe to Mystara-L? A: To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@io.com. (Note that this is not the posting address.) In the body, have the single line... "subscribe Mystara-L mystara@lovin.fool.com" Of course, replacing the given address with your own. Q: How do I post to Mystara-L? A: To post, send your message to mystara-l@io.com. (Note that this is not the subscribe/unsubscribe address.) Your message will be sent to every subscriber, including yourself. Q: How do I unsubscribe to Mystara-L? A: To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@io.com. (Note that this is not the posting address.) In the body, have the single line... "unsubscribe Mystara-L mystara@lovin.fool.com" Of course, replacing the given address with your own. Q: Can I get the messages in digest form? A: Sure. Use the procedure above to subscribe, only substitute Mystara-Digest for Mystara-L. Q: What's a digest? A: The digest version of the list saves up the messages until they reach a specified volume or time period, then sends them out as a single long message, instead of one at a time. There is no savings on space or noise, but it is useful for people who can only pick up their messages once a day, or who are charged per message rather than by message size. - POSTING - Q: What can a person talk about on the Mystara Mailing List (MML)? A: The MML is for the discussion of ... 1) Mystara in both it's D&D and AD&D incarnations. 2) How other TSR settings and supplements interact with Mystara (i.e. Spelljammer,Planescape, Ravenloft, Chronomancer, Shaman, etc.) 3) Original Dungeons & Dragons (a.k.a. Basic D&D, or just D&D) Q: What can't a person talk about on the MML? A: The MML is not for general discussion of AD&D or TSR's other fantasy worlds. Q: Why is it that you can discuss general D&D, but not general AD&D? A: The available resources for AD&D far surpass D&D. As far as this FAQ writer knows, there is no list dedicated solely to D&D, so this list tries to make up for that. If one is looking for discussion of general AD&D, one does not have to look hard. In addition, D&D was the original system that Mystara was designed under. Q: So, is the list admin an Ogre who will ban me from the list if a thread starts to stray from Mystara? A: Actually, the admin is a really nice guy who set up this list out of love for Mystara, not to hold power over others. (Well, maybe a little power). The admin will only intervene if the topics start to stray too far for too long, or if there is a general consensus from members that a thread must die. Q: How can I contact the admin without sending mail to the entire list? A: The admin can be contacted through e-mail, at the following address: owner-mystara-l@io.com Feel free to drop the admin an e-line. He's open to opinions and suggestions about the list. Q: Can I advertise on MML? A: If you have Mystara or other D&D products for sale, feel free to post an ad to MML. If you are running an auction, though, do it from r.g.f.marketplace, with an announcement in MML. The sale of other items is disallowed. Posting any sort of chain letter or Make Money Fast! ads is a good way to get kicked off. Q: How about Fluff (game-based fiction)? A: No, at this point. How ever, if a majority of people on the list want it, this may change. Pointers to where fluff can be found is all right, as long as they are innocuous. Informing the list every time you complete a chapter of your two hundred chapter epic is not innocuous. Q: Can I ask if there are any gamers in my area? A: Sure, but keep it short, and don't get carried away with frequency. Posting such a question once a week is delving into the shadowy world of Spam. Q: Such and such Mystara product is out of print. Can I ask someone on the list to type/scan/copy it for me? A: Anyone that engages in blatant copyright infringement on the list will get a warning. Further violations will result in a ban from the list. --- FTP & WWW SITES --- Q: We ought to have an FTP or WWW site where we can make stuff available. A: Currently, there are no dedicated MML sites, but there are a lot of sites out there that hold gigs of xD&D stuff (like MPGN). But, the admin will retain a copy of any interesting bits of info, rules, NPC's, etc. These will be indexed, and can be requested for e-mail. Hopefully a better system can be worked out soon. ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 09:03:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] No, Really, Its The FAQ... I sent this before, but noticed later that I hadn't changed the heqding from it's The Primal Order discussion. So, just to make sure everyone sees it, here it is again... On Wed, 21 Feb 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 23.37 14/02/96 -0800, our administrator wrote: > > > > >2) Not everyone has seen the FAQ > > You're right, I'm one of those who didn't read the FAQ. Where can I find them ? Right here... -- CREDIT -- In the belief of giving credit where credit is due, this FAQ was based on the GURPSnet-L FAQ, which was written by Sean Barrett, who is also the author of GURPS Lensmen. It's a good book. Check it out. Additional changes were made on the advise of Sir George Anonymous. --- INTRODUCTION --- Mystara is one TSR's fantasy game settings for use with it's xD&D games, and the Mystara Mailing List is for discussing this setting. In addition, the list is also a place for discussing the Original Dungeons and Dragons game. --- HOW TO SUB, POST, AND UNSUB --- Q: How do I subscribe to Mystara-L? A: To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@io.com. (Note that this is not the posting address.) In the body, have the single line... "subscribe Mystara-L mystara@lovin.fool.com" Of course, replacing the given address with your own. Q: How do I post to Mystara-L? A: To post, send your message to mystara-l@io.com. (Note that this is not the subscribe/unsubscribe address.) Your message will be sent to every subscriber, including yourself. Q: How do I unsubscribe to Mystara-L? A: To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@io.com. (Note that this is not the posting address.) In the body, have the single line... "unsubscribe Mystara-L mystara@lovin.fool.com" Of course, replacing the given address with your own. Q: Can I get the messages in digest form? A: Sure. Use the procedure above to subscribe, only substitute Mystara-Digest for Mystara-L. Q: What's a digest? A: The digest version of the list saves up the messages until they reach a specified volume or time period, then sends them out as a single long message, instead of one at a time. There is no savings on space or noise, but it is useful for people who can only pick up their messages once a day, or who are charged per message rather than by message size. - POSTING - Q: What can a person talk about on the Mystara Mailing List (MML)? A: The MML is for the discussion of ... 1) Mystara in both it's D&D and AD&D incarnations. 2) How other TSR settings and supplements interact with Mystara (i.e. Spelljammer,Planescape, Ravenloft, Chronomancer, Shaman, etc.) 3) Original Dungeons & Dragons (a.k.a. Basic D&D, or just D&D) Q: What can't a person talk about on the MML? A: The MML is not for general discussion of AD&D or TSR's other fantasy worlds. Q: Why is it that you can discuss general D&D, but not general AD&D? A: The available resources for AD&D far surpass D&D. As far as this FAQ writer knows, there is no list dedicated solely to D&D, so this list tries to make up for that. If one is looking for discussion of general AD&D, one does not have to look hard. In addition, D&D was the original system that Mystara was designed under. Q: So, is the list admin an Ogre who will ban me from the list if a thread starts to stray from Mystara? A: Actually, the admin is a really nice guy who set up this list out of love for Mystara, not to hold power over others. (Well, maybe a little power). The admin will only intervene if the topics start to stray too far for too long, or if there is a general consensus from members that a thread must die. Q: How can I contact the admin without sending mail to the entire list? A: The admin can be contacted through e-mail, at the following address: owner-mystara-l@io.com Feel free to drop the admin an e-line. He's open to opinions and suggestions about the list. Q: Can I advertise on MML? A: If you have Mystara or other D&D products for sale, feel free to post an ad to MML. If you are running an auction, though, do it from r.g.f.marketplace, with an announcement in MML. The sale of other items is disallowed. Posting any sort of chain letter or Make Money Fast! ads is a good way to get kicked off. Q: How about Fluff (game-based fiction)? A: No, at this point. How ever, if a majority of people on the list want it, this may change. Pointers to where fluff can be found is all right, as long as they are innocuous. Informing the list every time you complete a chapter of your two hundred chapter epic is not innocuous. Q: Can I ask if there are any gamers in my area? A: Sure, but keep it short, and don't get carried away with frequency. Posting such a question once a week is delving into the shadowy world of Spam. Q: Such and such Mystara product is out of print. Can I ask someone on the list to type/scan/copy it for me? A: Anyone that engages in blatant copyright infringement on the list will get a warning. Further violations will result in a ban from the list. --- FTP & WWW SITES --- Q: We ought to have an FTP or WWW site where we can make stuff available. A: Currently, there are no dedicated MML sites, but there are a lot of sites out there that hold gigs of xD&D stuff (like MPGN). But, the admin will retain a copy of any interesting bits of info, rules, NPC's, etc. These will be indexed, and can be requested for e-mail. Hopefully a better system can be worked out soon. ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 12:19:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Word from Admin (was: I need TPO -> OD&D conversion data) > 2) How other TSR settings and supplements interact with Mystara (i.e. > Spelljammer,Planescape, Ravenloft, Chronomancer, Shaman, etc.) Uhh... most other TSR worlds could not interact with Mystara and if they did, it would weaken the world...yes, even kender and gully dwarves would weaken it > 3) Original Dungeons & Dragons (a.k.a. Basic D&D, or just D&D) or OD&D or... > Q: Can I advertise on MML? > > A: If you have Mystara or other D&D products for sale, feel free to post > an ad to MML. If you are running an auction, though, do it from > r.g.f.marketplace, with an announcement in MML. Really- then does anyone want a semi-used copy of B6,X6 or a ravaged copy of B2? Contact me. Also-does anyone have Dawn of Emporers, Champions of Mystara or ANY GAZ they dont want? Please tell me. > Q: How about Fluff (game-based fiction)? > > A: No, at this point. How ever, if a majority of people on the list want > it, this may change. This has just come up on the Palladium Fantasy list, where a minority are opposed to it, but are willing to quit the list if it becomes more frequent than game-related posts. I figure the same holds true here. > Q: Can I ask if there are any gamers in my area? I would say...no. MANY of the posters here have their locale in their name and so...iof someone in your area or school pops up, there is a good chance you'll notice so no need to ask... the lurkers are another story > Q: We ought to have an FTP or WWW site where we can make stuff available. > > A: Currently, there are no dedicated MML sites, but there are a lot of > sites out there that hold gigs of xD&D stuff (like MPGN). > But, the admin will retain a copy of any interesting bits of info, > rules, NPC's, etc. These will be indexed, and can be requested for > e-mail. > Hopefully a better system can be worked out soon. Uhh.. there is a WWW site now. ------------------------------ From: jam@wimsey.com (Jenni A. Merrifield) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 11:34:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Discussion of FAQ points Mystaran's: First, thanks to Leroy for posting the FAQ, I'm glad to have finally seen it in all its glory. :-) Regarding a much earlier question of mine (which no-one seemed to pick up) how difficult would it be to get this file automatically sent to new members to the list? As I said before, there is a mechanism set up to do this, but (as far as I am aware) it isn't currently done. This would definitely mean that any new member couldn't say they'd "never seen it" ("never read it" maybe, but not "never seen it"...) A couple of questions, comments: I see that it is based on a FAQ for another mailing list (smart that). However, I was wondering how many people were involved with the creation and determination of some of the various points. I've noticed that Mischa made some comments about the validity of a few rules, and I was wondering how lengthy and how involved the discusions were (if there were any!) that solidified what is there. Does anyone else think that, now that there are a lot more list members, the FAQ might deserve to be discussed some more? Obviously this FAQ is still mainly covering the "Rules" of the list. I've seen some comments in various threads as to some actual "Questions" that should be included in the FAQ. Perhaps we should nail down some of these Questions and associated Answers to be added to the FAQ? For example, the question about TSR "Dropping" OD&D and almost all things Mystaran (save Red Steel) seems to crop up a lot. Other common questions I've seen (and sometimes wondered): What *is* Red Steel? What/Where is "Blackmoor?" Who/What is "The Beagle" What are all the TSR Mystara Products? Where can I find on-line Mystara Resources? Where can I purchace out-of-print Mystara Resources? There are many more, but these were the first to pop to mind. I think we should at least think about answer a few of these nagging questions. Ta, - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield : ............ -=< strawberryJAMM >=- : Black Holes Are Merely jam@wimsey.com : Where God Divided By Zero http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/ : ............... ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 18:13:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Savage Coast "Online Exclusives"? I just sent this to TSRInc@aol.com, and got a speedy reply: > >I noticed in rec.games.dnd a thread that mentioned the Savage Coast > >products are not going to go to print; instead, they're going to be > >offered as "online exclusives". Whatever that means. (I also heard that > >the novel is completely kaput.) > > > >What does TSR means by this, and how much will it affect the products? > > The SC products were completed, but management decided to close the > line because there wasn't enough interest in it to merit the printing > costs. We finagled the management into allowing us to put the products > online, and so they will be available online (at first on AOL, hopefully > on the other sites soon after) as scheduled, for free. > -- > Sean Reynolds, TSR Online Coordinator > TSRinc@aol.com | AOL: keyword TSR | http://users.aol.com/tsrinc/ - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 18:51:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Discussion of FAQ points - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > Date: Wednesday, 21-Feb-96 11:34 AM > > From: Jenni A. Merrifield \ Internet: (jam@wimsey.com) > To: Post to Mystara-L \ Internet: (mystara-l@io.com) > > Subject: [Mystara] Discussion of FAQ points > What are all the TSR Mystara Products? - -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- Well, for the moment, check out the latest issue of Dragon; there is a "Trivia/Poster" insert that lists TSR products, including the various Mystara lines. Shelby ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #67 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #68 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 28 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 068 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 17:54:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Word from Admin (was: I need TPO -> OD&D conversion data) On Wed, 21 Feb 1996, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > 2) How other TSR settings and supplements interact with Mystara (i.e. > > Spelljammer,Planescape, Ravenloft, Chronomancer, Shaman, etc.) > > Uhh... most other TSR worlds could not interact with Mystara and if they > did, it would weaken the world...yes, even kender and gully dwarves would > weaken it Two things on this... 1) You'll notice that the settings listed are those which have crossover possibilities. Who knows where the mists of Ravenloft might reach. Admittingly, Mystara has its own planar system, but many people on this list use the AD&D rules for Mystara, and by extension some are going to use the AD&D versions of things. My Mystara is a aprt of the Spelljammer/Planescape universe, and at least one other person, Shelby, also uses Spelljammer. 2) Whether such things would weaken it is an opinion that not all may share, and it is not the intent of this admin to limit possible Mystara related topics. > > 3) Original Dungeons & Dragons (a.k.a. Basic D&D, or just D&D) > or OD&D or... > > > Q: Can I advertise on MML? > > > > A: If you have Mystara or other D&D products for sale, feel free to post > > an ad to MML. If you are running an auction, though, do it from > > r.g.f.marketplace, with an announcement in MML. > > Really- then does anyone want a semi-used copy of B6,X6 or a ravaged copy > of B2? Contact me. > Also-does anyone have Dawn of Emporers, Champions of Mystara or ANY GAZ > they dont want? Please tell me. Advertising Mystara stuff is perfectly acceptable. After all, if you have something to sell, why not may sure it gets to someone on the list, who you know is a fan? As with anything, though, repetition will get it classified as Spam. > > Q: How about Fluff (game-based fiction)? > > > > A: No, at this point. How ever, if a majority of people on the list want > > it, this may change. > > This has just come up on the Palladium Fantasy list, where a minority are > opposed to it, but are willing to quit the list if it becomes more > frequent than game-related posts. I figure the same holds true here. This issue has not been raised yet, but at this point it is pretty much a "no". But, as it says, this could change if the people demand it. And, a notice that you have a story available for those who want it would be OK. > > Q: Can I ask if there are any gamers in my area? > > I would say...no. MANY of the posters here have their locale in their > name and so...iof someone in your area or school pops up, there is a good > chance you'll notice so no need to ask... the lurkers are another story Can't say I agree on this one. There are a lot of addresses that don't indicate why a person is at, and most .sig's I have seen don't indicate this. But, it is a non-issue so far, so no one has tried asking... > > Q: We ought to have an FTP or WWW site where we can make stuff available. > > > > A: Currently, there are no dedicated MML sites, but there are a lot of > > sites out there that hold gigs of xD&D stuff (like MPGN). > > But, the admin will retain a copy of any interesting bits of info, > > rules, NPC's, etc. These will be indexed, and can be requested for > > e-mail. > > Hopefully a better system can be worked out soon. > Uhh.. there is a WWW site now. Well, if there is, feel free to post an URL, and people can upload as they please. I still do retain copies of the stuff people post, but I have been unable to keep the index up and orders going out. More on this in a following post. But, I have to say, it is not really this list's job to make sure people can get this stuff. I wish I had the time to do this, but I don't. My free time is currently being stolen from me. Again, more on this in another post. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 18:13:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Discussion of FAQ points On Wed, 21 Feb 1996, Jenni A. Merrifield wrote: > Mystaran's: > > First, thanks to Leroy for posting the FAQ, I'm glad to have finally seen > it in all its glory. :-) Regarding a much earlier question of mine > (which no-one seemed to pick up) how difficult would it be to get this > file automatically sent to new members to the list? As I said before, > there is a mechanism set up to do this, but (as far as I am aware) it > isn't currently done. This would definitely mean that any new member > couldn't say they'd "never seen it" ("never read it" maybe, but not "never > seen it"...) There is a way to do this, and I have thought of setting it up this way. But it isn't the easiest thing to do. Majordomo is not a convenient point and click kind of thing. It involves long, convoluted configuration perl scripts. When I get the time, though, I will look into it. > A couple of questions, comments: > > I see that it is based on a FAQ for another mailing list (smart that). > However, I was wondering how many people were involved with the creation > and determination of some of the various points. I've noticed that > Mischa made some comments about the validity of a few rules, and I was > wondering how lengthy and how involved the discusions were (if there were > any!) that solidified what is there. Does anyone else think that, now > that there are a lot more list members, the FAQ might deserve to be > discussed some more? Discussion? There wasn't really any discusiion. Using the GURPS mailing list as a template, I made it all up, based on what I thought was reasonabe. And this was based partly on the general operating rules of the 13 or so other mailing lists I am on. After writing it Sir George Anonymous, one of our semi-lurkers, took a look at it and made some suggestions. That's it. Should we bother discussing the FAQ and the rules any further? Sure, why not? It is not set in stone. This list is designed to serve Mystara fans, giving them an outlet for discussion and idea sharing. If the majority want a change, it may very well happen. > Obviously this FAQ is still mainly covering the "Rules" of the list. > I've seen some comments in various threads as to some actual "Questions" > that should be included in the FAQ. Perhaps we should nail down some of > these Questions and associated Answers to be added to the FAQ? For > example, the question about TSR "Dropping" OD&D and almost all things > Mystaran (save Red Steel) seems to crop up a lot. Other common > questions I've seen (and sometimes wondered): [suggested questions snipped] When the list first started up I posted a list of possible projects to get us started. One was a Mystara FAQ. And it is still a good idea. But such a FAQ should remain seperate from the list FAQ, since they cover two different things. One is a discussion of how the list works, the other should be a discusion of the world itself. If anyone wished to volunteer to write such a FAQ, feel free. I am sure there would be more than enough questions, as well as answers (Hopefully :) Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 00:12:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Official Files n' Things On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, Jenni A. Merrifield wrote: > Hya Listers, > > I was wondering if Bruce Pierpont's (sorry if I misspelled) Specialty > Priests were being stored as an "official" resource of the Mailing list? > I think that (assuming he doesn't mind, and assuming we're never told by > TSR that we aren't allowed to do so) it would be a pretty good idea. Yup. I have all of Bruce's work on my computer > I was also wondering about the mailserver "files" options, and how > these things get set up, and whether mystara-l will ever include some of > the more popular and useful things there (i.e. the FAQ -- which I've > never seen myself, and which it might be useful if it were posted to the > list every couple of months...). For those who don't know what I'm talking > about, it is possible to send a command to the mailserver requesting a > list of files associated with a specific mailing list, and then one can > send more commands requesting the files you are interested in. > Currently, mystara-l has no files associated -- not even a "welcome to > mystara-l" file, which many other mailing lists have and which are > provided automagically to new members. There is an automated system that allows a person to get files thorugh e-mail. The problem is that the files must be on a site, and getting our stuff onto a site is a problem, since TSR is now a bit rabid on what can be put where. This list is run from Illuminati Online, an ISP owned by Steve Jackson Games, the makers of GURPS. It is quite unlikely they are going to let us put our files on their system, since they are aware of the TSR fiasco. So, what we need is a site we can put all this stuff on. There is a way to get past digests, I believe, but am not sure how. > Is the process a difficult/time consuming/bureaucratic nightmare? Or > is it just that Leroy, our fearless list owner, has been so busy that he > hasn't had a chance to take care of these niceities? Is there anyway > someone else could take on the job for you Leroy? (assuming we had a > copy of said files...) I'd be willing to take care of it, *if* I could, > and *if* someone told me how and *if* someone gave me files I don't have > and/or told me which files to collect from past digests..... I have posted this a time or two, but I will poor my heart out again... I have been ejected from school. I have been forced to buy a car and enter the real world. Much of my time is currently spent in looking for a job. What little free time I have is spent on the net, trying to relax, or working on my Mage campaign I play every Saturday. So, I have been unable to keep up the index or send out the stuff people request. Unless someone has a web or FTP site we can put this stuff on we have only two options. One, put it all on MPGN, the TSR sanctioned site. But a lot of people have moral/ethical problems with this, and it is not my place to put other people's stuff on a site. Or, someone with more free time than me can take over the job of keeping copies of stuff people post, take copies of what I have, and keep the index up. Then, people who want copies of stuff can send their requests to this person. I wish there were better options. And there may be, and I just don't know about them. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Another slave and a victim of fate, another lesson in hate." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Burning Inside ------------------------------ From: Orion Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 02:32:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mystara] New Developments iIn This File Fiasco I made a call to the io.com people in Texas, and we may soon have an easier way of handling all this. It may take a while but people may soon be able to get files through e-mail. Thanks go out to Jenni for volunteering to take over the hassle. Hopefully, though, it won't be necessary. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 13:41:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] FAQ Q Did Jenni suggest that we make a list of the Mystara/ODND books and if they are worth it? I know we've had isolated discussions in the past and I, for one, would like a concensus. (.sig longer than post, but Urklore had a better ratio)x Once in NewYork a fan threw a soda bottle at me and din't miss bytoo much.Almost as soon as it hit the ground, Tommy John came running out ofthe dugout,a look of deep concern on his face."You Allright?"I told him Iwas fine,the bottle had just missed."Those fans"he said sadly"Theyve got the worst aim in the world" - umpire Ron Luciano ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 13:47:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Savage Coast "Online Exclusives"? > > The SC products were completed, but management decided to close the > > line because there wasn't enough interest in it to merit the printing > > costs. We finagled the management into allowing us to put the products > > online, and so they will be available online (at first on AOL, hopefully > > on the other sites soon after) as scheduled, for free. All right- T$R with a move that is not for money, but for RPGers. Someone thank Sean. Maybe they ahve been trying this all along, and this management(them guys who pay seaN,steve,jim) won't let them be nice. Hmm... so TSR upper management is evil and the TSR netreps aren't..got it. Can't wait for the free stuff... Thanks for asking, Daniel. Once in NewYork a fan threw a soda bottle at me and din't miss bytoo much.Almost as soon as it hit the ground, Tommy John came running out ofthe dugout,a look of deep concern on his face."You Allright?"I told him Iwas fine,the bottle had just missed."Those fans"he said sadly"Theyve got the worst aim in the world" - umpire Ron Luciano ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 11:25:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] FAQ Q On Thu, 22 Feb 1996, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > Did Jenni suggest that we make a list of the Mystara/ODND books and if > they are worth it? I know we've had isolated discussions in the past and > I, for one, would like a concensus. I rather like the idea. It was on of the original projects I proposed (I think). So, Mischa, are you volunteering to keep track of it all? :) My two cents on how to do it is... Post to the list a list of all D&D/Mystara stuff and let people fill it out, like a ballot. One person keeps track of it all, and when the poll is finished, that person would average each product's ratings (1-10). Also, each person could write their opinions of various products at the bottom of the ballot. These opinions could be compiled with the poll results. Or something like that. I did a similar poll on the FR mailing list and it worked fine, although I got few written opinions. Hopefully the people of this list would be more verbose. Again, just my 2 cents. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 14:02:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Word from Admin (was: I need TPO -> OD&D conversion data) > 2) Whether such things would weaken it is an opinion that not all may share, > and it is not the intent of this admin to limit possible Mystara related > topics. Sorry...I was inserting opinion into the debate. Other people probably think it helps. > Advertising Mystara stuff is perfectly acceptable. After all, if you > have something to sell, why not may sure it gets to someone on the list, who > you know is a fan? > As with anything, though, repetition will get it classified as Spam. Don't worry...those were about all I want to get rid of. Most Mystara stuff is great. > > Uhh.. there is a WWW site now. > > Well, if there is, feel free to post an URL, and people can upload as > they please. I don't have it on me...but Glenn something has a web page for Mystara- it has Bruce's immortals descritions and some other stuff Also T$R supposedly has a Mystara page Both desever mention in the FAQ,IMO. Once in NewYork a fan threw a soda bottle at me and din't miss bytoo much.Almost as soon as it hit the ground, Tommy John came running out ofthe dugout,a look of deep concern on his face."You Allright?"I told him Iwas fine,the bottle had just missed."Those fans"he said sadly"Theyve got the worst aim in the world" - umpire Ron Luciano ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 20:38:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Product List I recently discovered where I found that previous list of Mystara products that I posted a month or so ago: ftp.mpgn.com in directory /Gaming/ADND/TSRGuides. The files that are Mystara (and/or OD&D) are 001, 002, 003, 004, 005, 021, and 022. If anybody wants, I can post my already-archived copy, or somebody else can tidy it up some.. :) (BTW, I believe I posted version 1, and they're now at version 2.) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 23:47:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Web Pages... On Thu, 22 Feb 1996, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > > Uhh.. there is a WWW site now. > > > > Well, if there is, feel free to post an URL, and people can upload as > > they please. > > I don't have it on me...but Glenn something has a web page for Mystara- > it has Bruce's immortals descritions and some other stuff > Also T$R supposedly has a Mystara page > > Both desever mention in the FAQ,IMO. First, on the TSR web site. They do have a basic web site on AOL, but their full production site hasn't gone up yet. When it does, and the Mystara section is open I will make sure it gets to the list. As for Glenn's, I am a bit leary of putting such a site in the offical FAQ. With the TSR legal fiasco, it would be a shame if such an action brought Glenn undo attention. If you find the URL, though, feel free to post it. Or, if Glenn himself gets ahold of me and says it's OK, I will add it then. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Another slave and a victim of fate, another lesson in hate." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Burning Inside ------------------------------ From: Bill Schwartz Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 18:33:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] FAQ Q IS the Mystara FAQ ready yet? At 01:41 PM 2/22/96 -0500, you wrote: >Did Jenni suggest that we make a list of the Mystara/ODND books and if >they are worth it? I know we've had isolated discussions in the past and >I, for one, would like a concensus. > > >(.sig longer than post, but Urklore had a better ratio)x >Once in NewYork a fan threw a soda bottle at me and din't miss bytoo much.Almost >as soon as it hit the ground, Tommy John came running out ofthe dugout,a look >of deep concern on his face."You Allright?"I told him Iwas fine,the bottle had >just missed."Those fans"he said sadly"Theyve got the worst aim in the world" > - umpire Ron Luciano > > > ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:36:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Some Damn Good News... Finally, I have found a solution to our file problems. All the files I have been saving are now available through e-mail! To get a list of files just send the following command to majordomo@io.com... index mystara-l ...and wait for a while. The turn around seems long at the moment. Once you have a listing use the command... get mystara-l ...and wait some more. You can get digests the same way. Just replace mystara-l with mystara-digest. Need some help? Just send majordomo the help command. All commands must be in the BODY of the letter, not the SUBJECT. When I get a chance I will put all this in the FAQ, which will also be available through this process. I will also write up a index.txt file that people can retrieve, which will have full explanations on what is what. When this is al done I will announce it to the list. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: jam@wimsey.com (Jenni A. Merrifield) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:04:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some Damn Good News... > Finally, I have found a solution to our file problems. All the files > I have been saving are now available through e-mail! > [...snip...] Hooray!!!!! Lets all give Leroy a round of aplause for perservering and figuring out just how to get this set up. ;-) - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield : ............ -=< strawberryJAMM >=- : Black Holes Are Merely jam@wimsey.com : Where God Divided By Zero http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/ : ............... ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:12:09 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hollow Worlds and asteroids. Hi! On Do 15.02.1996 around 22:20:33 Andrea Stadtfeld wrote in message "[Mystara] Hollow Worlds and asteroids." > >the nucleus. I think "Mark of Amber" makes it relatively clear that at > > Could you please tell me something about this module? Is it worth its > money? It is a "CD" module containing one of the good CDs TSR has produced (the other being "Primer to the Outlands"/Planescape). Expensive, but nice to have and listen to. And even nice to play I guess, though I haven't tried yet. Presentation is good, even a bit _too_ colorful for my taste. > What levels are necessary, what is the plot and the connection to > Castle Amber, can you recommend it? Plot is "top secret" (no spoilers) but it has basically a "new" castle based on the old one but with modifications. A few characters from the old module are around, too. Most notably a cured "Petit-Singe"... :-) > My players are planning a trip to post- > war Glantri... May their blades never get dull! By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:03:57 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mystara] [mystara] Planes of existence Here is a list of some planes that exist in the Mystaran Multiverse: Alfheim Alfheim, Dark Arcade Astral Brynn Candyland Corridor Draconic Cluster Draesten Draenden Dreamlands/Faerie Elemental air Elemental Earth Elemental Fire Elemental Water Entrem Etheral Gargantua Groggor Hades Helheim Infuma Limbo Lodestar Lopadotemachoselachogalaleokranioleipsanodrimhypotrimmatosilphioparaomelito....sth Mirage Morcellate Newmarket Niflheim Nous Nubilate Old Alphatia Pandius Paradise Partheniad Prime Material Pyts Pyx Rocta Serpentia Scrinary Slobbovia Splacknuck Thoke Typp Unsoncy Valhalla Vanirheim Warren Wyrm Yggdrasil Zelotypia These are collected from Modules amd Gazetters. There are more but I couldnt remember all feel free to add to this list. I could give more info on each plane if anyone wants that. Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #68 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #69 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 28 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 069 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:44:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] [mystara] Planes of existence > Here is a list of some planes that exist in the Mystaran Multiverse: GReat job, man. Now, where are most of these located? I have not heard of a majority of them-maybe one post per country or don't you have the time? Why don't you get used to losing, Galvatron? it's all you ever do -Rodimus Prime ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:30:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Re: [mystara] Planes of existence > Here is a list of some planes that exist in the Mystaran Multiverse: > Alfheim > Alfheim, Dark > Candyland > Draenden > Entrem > Groggor > Helheim > Infuma > Limbo > Mirage > Niflheim > Rocta > Serpentia > Splacknuck > Valhalla > Vanirheim > Warren > Yggdrasil I recognized most of the planes, except for the ones above.. > These are collected from Modules amd Gazetters. > There are more but I couldnt remember all > feel free to add to this list. I could give more info on each plane if > anyone wants that. I'd appreciate any and all info you have.. :) Let's see.. there's Rylum, Tempus, and Kryla, from IM2.. And we musn't forget the Dimensions, either. :) Mystaran Multiverse, Beagle's homedimension, Dimension of Myth, Dimension of Nightmares, the Vortex Dimension.. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 23:00:59 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] [mystara] Planes of existence At 13.03 28/02/96 +0100, Haavard Faanes wrote: >Here is a list of some planes that exist in the Mystaran Multiverse: Hey, good work ! I'm adding a few planes as well as a reference to which Mystaran product you can find them. >Alfheim (Gaz 7) >Alfheim, Dark Do you mean Svartalfheim of Gaz 7 ? >Arcade Asgard (Gaz 7) >Astral (RC, WotI) >Brynn (WotI) >Candyland >Corridor >Draconic Cluster >Draesten (WotI) >Draenden >Dreamlands/Faerie >Elemental Air (RC, WotI) >Elemental Earth (RC, WotI) >Elemental Fire (RC, WotI) >Elemental Water (RC, WotI) >Entrem (WotI) >Etheral (RC, WotI) >Gargantua >Groggor >Hades >Helheim >Infuma Jotunheim (Gaz 7) >Limbo (Dragon #180) >Lodestar >Lopadotemachoselachogalaleokranioleipsanodrimhypotrimmatosilphioparaomelito ....sth Midgard (Gaz 7) >Mirage (WotI) >Morcellate Muspelheim (Gaz 7) >Newmarket >Niflheim (Gaz 7) >Nous >Nubilate >Old Alphatia (WotI) >Pandius (WotI) >Paradise >Partheniad >Prime Material (RC, WotI) >Pyts (WotI) >Pyx >Rocta >Serpentia >Scrinary >Slobbovia >Splacknuck Svartalfheim (Gaz 7) Swergheim (Gaz 7) >Thoke >Typp >Unsoncy >Valhalla Do you mean Asgard of Gaz 7 ? >Vanirheim Do you mean Vanaheim of Gaz 7 ? >Warren >Wyrm >Yggdrasil, the World Ash (Gaz 7) >Zelotypia > I think it would be useful for each Plane to put here a reference to where related informations can be found and, if possible, the planar address of each one. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr brizio@lunet.it Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 23:07:29 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara-l index At 13.36 27/02/96 -0800, you wrote: > > > Finally, I have found a solution to our file problems. All the files >I have been saving are now available through e-mail! > To get a list of files just send the following command to >majordomo@io.com... > >index mystara-l > I had a look at that list and I have a question: apart from the some obvious ones (e.g. the immortals), how can we know what is in those files (e.g. mtl3.txt and the like) ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr brizio@lunet.it Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:40:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara-l index On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 13.36 27/02/96 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > Finally, I have found a solution to our file problems. All the files > >I have been saving are now available through e-mail! > > To get a list of files just send the following command to > >majordomo@io.com... > > > >index mystara-l > > > I had a look at that list and I have a question: apart from the some obvious > ones (e.g. the immortals), how can we know what is in those files (e.g. > mtl3.txt and the like) ? At the moment you can't. One of the things I mention in the posting you quote, above, is that I will index everything available, and put this index in with the rest of the stuff, so a person can get the index first. It is just a matter of time... Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: jam@wimsey.com (Jenni A. Merrifield) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:32:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Mystara FAQ Hey Mystarans! A couple of things: 1) Immortals -- any further "research" on any of the lesser known ones? Are Cretia, Forset, and Arik "complete"? Any addendums and/or new insight? 2) Since Leroy has suggested that Mystara-Specific questions should be kept in a Mystara FAQ (vs. the Mystara-L FAQ), and since no one else has volunteered (so far) I thought I'd throw myself into my hobbies and kill more of my free time by offering to at least START one, if not maintain one. With that said, onward, ho... Over the next little while I'll put together what I can piece together of the Mystara-Specific Q&A's, and then I'll post the preliminary FAQ (v0.0) to the list. Anyone with suggestions for a Q&A pair to add to the Mystara FAQ, please mail them directly to me rather than foising the accumlated noise off on the list. Further discussion will no doubt ensue after I've posted the initial collection. Also, please don't send me questions without answers -- I am far, far, FAR from knowing even half of everything about Mystara, the World, the People, and the Campaign. That's all! - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield : ............ -=< strawberryJAMM >=- : Black Holes Are Merely jam@wimsey.com : Where God Divided By Zero http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/ : ............... ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:16:03 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Nucleus of the Spheres I've been doing a lot of thinking and reworking of events depicted in the Wrath of the Immortals campaign recently, and while doing so, I came across something that I hadn't thought of before and which is really irking me... It has to do with the Nucleus of the Spheres. You know, the big artifact under Glantri, former nuclear core of the Beagle, that drains magic from the Prime Plane? That's what bugs me, really. The whole magic draining thing. The more I think about it, the more ridiculous it becomes. You're telling me that this one artifact actually drains off the magic of the Prime Plane? Okay. I can buy that one. That's not the real problem. The problem is that for some reason, use of the artifact by Glantrian mages causes the Prime Plane's total magical output to be reduced so darned fast, on a cosmic scale. I mean, here you have a handful of mages- a few hundred thousand to a million at tops! (The actual number who directly use the artifact is far fewer) This handful of mages cause such a drain that the entire magical potential in the entire Plane- the entire UNIVERSE!!- is in danger of being eliminated?!?!?! And the Immortals are actually concerned that this will happen sometime soon? Well, I can think of many reasons the immortals would go to war over the artifact, that's not the problem. The biggest issues here are a) how can the magical energy be drained so totally as to not be put back into play in the universe? The 'energy cannot be destroyed, only changed' issue that is the cornerstone of physics. I suppose I could see this as the artifact not destroying magic, but changing it into some other energy form. Okay, I answered my own point. but b) how big a danger could possibly be caused by this small portion of mages using the artifact? I imagine the amount of magical energy in the Prime to be substantial- at the very least, it seems it would require thousands of millions of years for the mages of Glantri to use enough power to completely drain the Prime Plane of its magic. Anyway, I don't really have any answers right now, though my mind races with the possibilities. At the very least, I hope this generates some thoughts out there (I know we have a few physics people lurking! ;) ), and I would love to hear them. After all, that's what we're here for, eh? And the list has been very quiet of late... As always, ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:24:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nucleus of the Spheres >That's what bugs me, really. The whole magic draining thing. The more I >think about it, the more ridiculous it becomes. You're telling me that >this one artifact actually drains off the magic of the Prime Plane? Okay. >I can buy that one. That's not the real problem. The problem is that for >some reason, use of the artifact by Glantrian mages causes the Prime >Plane's total magical output to be reduced so darned fast, on a cosmic >scale. I agree with you, and that's definitely how it's presented in GAZ3. In WotI, however, it seems to be changed so that the threat is only to Mystara (Rad says something like 'so what if one planet loses its flying carpets and crystal balls' in defending his research). I like this much more. What I think is stupid is the way in which at the end of WotI entropy gets drained. Why the heck should that have happened? And however it did, then I would think the brothers using it could only use it reach Immortality in the Sphere of Entropy, not Energy anymore. I think the artifact should either be deactivated, destroyed, or should continue to drain Energy but without the threat of detonating superstorms like the one that sinks Alphatia. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ David "Azure" Leland ~~~ e-mail: azure@cs.oberlin.edu ~~ ~~ Oberlin College ~~~ snail-mail: OCMR 1375 / Oberlin, OH 44074 ~~ ~~ **Creative Writing ~~~ phone/fax: (216) 775-5582 ~~ ~~ **Cognitive Science ~~~ WWW: http://www.oberlin.edu/~dleland ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: Jason Zavoda Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:53:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nucleus of the Spheres Well, the energy could be pouring into another dimesions,(for myself Universe designates many many dimensions, galaxys and such, Universe being the word to describe the cup we pour infinity into, or to put it another way , Universe being the candy wrapper around the chocolate bar of exisitence) Personally I think you can just stamp the thing PLOT DEVICE and not worry about the physics. I don't use the official version in my campaign. I use the glantri artifact as a magic generator of extreme power and danger. And here is where i'm a Mystara heretic, I don't use Immortals. Characters don't roleplay them and I'm a firm believer that immortals are like children, they should be seen and not heard, and preferably not seen. One non mystara question, if the cornerstone of physics says that energy cannot be created or destroyed then how was any of it created in the first place. Even if we exist within a closed system and energy is simply changed from one form to another then how did the first spark of energy start its dance across the empty shell of the Universe without being created from nothingness. Physics has a lot of explaining to do... Jason Zavoda > Well, I can think of many reasons the immortals would go to war over the > artifact, that's not the problem. The biggest issues here are a) how can > the magical energy be drained so totally as to not be put back into play > in the universe? The 'energy cannot be destroyed, only changed' issue > that is the cornerstone of physics. I suppose I could see this as the > artifact not destroying magic, but changing it into some other energy > form. Okay, I answered my own point. > ------------------------------ From: p.froehlich@amc.cube.net (Peter Froehlich) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:34:29 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some Damn Good News... Hi! On Di 27.02.1996 around 22:36:55 Leroy wrote in message "[Mystara] Some Damn Good News..." > Finally, I have found a solution to our file problems. All the files > I have been saving are now available through e-mail! Thanks a lot for setting this up! By(T)e... Peter... ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:25:14 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nucleus of the Spheres On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, David 'Azure' Leland wrote: > I agree with you, and that's definitely how it's presented in GAZ3. > In WotI, however, it seems to be changed so that the threat is only to > Mystara (Rad says something like 'so what if one planet loses its flying > carpets and crystal balls' in defending his research). I like this much > more. What I think is stupid is the way in which at the end of WotI entropy > gets drained. Why the heck should that have happened? And however it did, > then I would think the brothers using it could only use it reach Immortality > in the Sphere of Entropy, not Energy anymore. I think the artifact should > either be deactivated, destroyed, or should continue to drain Energy but > without the threat of detonating superstorms like the one that sinks Alphatia. > This is another point which bothered me, as well, but I neglected to mention. I am working on trying to figure out options for the entropy draining effect, but haven't come up with anything just yet. Except maybe, I do. I mentioned the possibility that the artifact just converts magic energy to other forms of energy- maybe the artifact is reprogrammed to not perform such conversions? Just leave magic energy to be magic energy? ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:35:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some Damn Good News... On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Peter Froehlich wrote: > Hi! > > On Di 27.02.1996 around 22:36:55 Leroy wrote in message > "[Mystara] Some Damn Good News..." > > > Finally, I have found a solution to our file problems. All the files > > I have been saving are now available through e-mail! > > Thanks a lot for setting this up! No problem. Hopefully with this people will eagerly flood the list with an endless string of new and fascinating Mystara stuff... Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:17:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara FAQ On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jenni A. Merrifield wrote: > 2) > Since Leroy has suggested that Mystara-Specific questions should be > kept in a Mystara FAQ (vs. the Mystara-L FAQ), and since no one else has > volunteered (so far) I thought I'd throw myself into my hobbies and kill > more of my free time by offering to at least START one, if not maintain one. I think we all owe Jenni our thanks on this one. > With that said, onward, ho... > > Over the next little while I'll put together what I can piece together > of the Mystara-Specific Q&A's, and then I'll post the preliminary FAQ (v0.0) > to the list. Anyone with suggestions for a Q&A pair to add to the Mystara > FAQ, please mail them directly to me rather than foising the accumlated > noise off on the list. Further discussion will no doubt ensue after I've > posted the initial collection. Also, please don't send me questions > without answers -- I am far, far, FAR from knowing even half of > everything about Mystara, the World, the People, and the Campaign. Although I understand Jenni's reluctance at being bomarded with a bunch of unanswered questions, I don't think there would be anything wrong with posting these to the list itself. This way people's questions are aired, and those with the time, resources, and inclination can try to answer them. Not to mention that the list has been a bit dead as of late, and this might get our creative juices flowing. ("Excuse me, but your creative juices are running on my shoe.") Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:17:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Phanaton PCs I've found this in my varied collection of text files, and thought some=20 listers might be interested.. OD&D stats in the next post. :) The Phanaton as a Monster CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Tropical or Subtropical jungles and forests FREQUENCY: Rare ORGANIZATION: Clan ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any DIET: Omnivore INTELLEGENCE: Average (8-10) TREASURE: Nil ALIGNMENT: Chaotic Good NO. APPEARING: 3d6 ARMOR CLASS: 7 MOVEMENT: 9, Gl 15 HIT DICE: 1-1 THAC0: 20 NO. OF ATTACKS: 1 DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1d4 (bite) or by weapon SPECIAL ATTACKS: Surprise SPECIAL DEFENSES: +2 bonus on all saving throws MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil SIZE: S (3' tall) MORALE: Average (8) XP VALUE: 35 120 (warrior) 270 (chief) 2,000 (king) =20 Phanaton are odd, seldom-seen intelligent forest-dwellers that have very= =20 strong ties to nature. A phanaton looks like a cross between a racoon and a monkey, though its=20 face has an almost human quality in terms of subtle expressions. A=20 phanaton is roughly the size of a halfling, and has a 4-foot-long=20 prehensile tail, that can grasp objects like a fifth limb. For example,=20 when fighting in trees a phanaton wraps its tail around a branch for=20 support. In addition, a phanaton has membranes of skin stretching from=20 arm to leg; these can be spread to glide from branch to branch. A phanaton's coloration resembles a racoon, with a dark mask over the=20 eyes, gray-brown fur, and a ringed tail, The phanaton's hands are like a=20 monkey's, including opposable thumbs. A phanaton's eyes are bright green,= =20 fiery red, or shiny yellow. In the dark, phanaton eyes can give travelers= =20 quite a scare.=20 Phanaton speak the languages of elves and treants, as well as their own=20 language that consists largely of hoots, chatters, and clicks and can be=20 mistaken for animal noises. They can also use sign language with=20 strangers.=20 =20 COMBAT: Their gentle nature makes phanaton slow to attack strangers,=20 though they fight fanatically to save the natural beauty around them from= =20 extinction. As a rule, phanaton will not opt for direct attacks on bigger= =20 or more numerous foes. Phanatons use the forest setting in order to=20 launch harrying sneak attacks; they are naturally quiet, which gives=20 opponents a -3 penalty to surprise rolls. When among trees, phanatons can= =20 move silently like thieves with a 75% chance of success. Phanaton hate aranea (a certain species of pony-sized, poisonous, spell=20 using, intelligent spiders) and planar spiders intensely and will attack=20 them on sight, casting aside all tactics and stealth. Phanaton use simple weapons such as clubs, staves, and nets. Most of=20 their weapons are fabricated simply with materials at hand. Phanaton=20 rarely use metal weapons. Phanaton have extremely acute senses and therefore have an empathy with=20 their forest surroundings. This gives them a +2 bonus on all their saving= =20 throws.=20 When a group of 10 phanaton is encountered, the group will include a=20 warrior (/n'chala/) with 2 Hit Dice and 10 hit points. In a group of 30=20 phanaton, there is a clan warchief with 3 Hit Dice, at least 15 hit=20 points, and a +1 bonus to all damage rolls. The warchief has 2d6 warriors= =20 as guards. Each of these n'chala fights as a 2 hit dice monster and has=20 1d6+4 hip points. For every 100 phanaton, there is a tribal subchief who=20 has 6 hit dice, 30 hit points, and a +1 bonus to all damage rolls. The=20 subchief has 2d4 bodyguards, who each have 3 hit dice, and 15 hit points.= =20 If 300 adult phanaton are encountered, they are led by a tribal king with= =20 8 Hit Dice, 50 hit points, and a +2 bonus to all damage rolls. He has=20 four warriours who act as bodyguards. Each of these bodyguards has 6 hit=20 dice, 30 hit points, and a +1 bonus to all damage rolls. For every 30 phanaton, there is a 2nd level shaman. For every 100=20 phanaton, there is a 4th level shaman. Shamans dress in bone, claw, and=20 animal skull ornaments. =20 HABITAT/SOCIETY: Each phanaton tribe is made up of clans. Phanaton clans=20 have 3d10x10 adult members plus an additional 25% of that number in=20 offspring. Clans live in villages built on platforms of wood and woven=20 vines connected by a network of rope bridges. (They'd feel right at home=20 in Solace on Krynn.)=20 Phanaton can live for 80 years. Their litters have 1d6 kits. The kits=20 grow to maturity in six months. Though phanaton do not have a written language, they love to pass down=20 stories and legends from generation to generation. In fact, many phanaton= =20 names are followed by a list of the phanaton's ancestors'=20 accomplishments.=20 Phanaton are the allies of treants and dryads, and are usually very=20 friendly with elves - especially wood elves. The aranea are their=20 traditional enemies.=20 Phanaton often run afoul of humans, humanoids, and demihumans who=20 attempt to cut down forests. Phanaton try to halt timber efforts by=20 secretly sabotaging equipment and playing annoying, nonlethal tricks on=20 the woodcutters.=20 The phanaton shamans can make a bone talisman, called a phanaton-friend=20 talisman, which allows the bearer to understand and communicate with them= =20 without needing magic. It is only awarded to beings who have proven=20 themselves true friends of the phanaton race. Any phanaton who sees the=20 talisman recognizes that the character has been marked as a=20 phanaton-friend. If the possessor performs any deed against a phanaton,=20 however, the talisman crumbles into powder.=20 Known colonies: Isle of Dread (Thanegoth Archepelego), Orc's Head=20 Penninsula (Savage Coast), Eastern Thothian Plateau (Isle of Dawn). =20 ECOLOGY: A healthy woods or jungle is often a sign of phanaton influence.= =20 These creatures enjoy tending the woods around them, cultivating favorite= =20 plants, clearing away dead plant matter, and ensuring that the balance of= =20 nature in their area is maintained. Phanaton are omnivorous. They prefer to eat fruits and vegetables, but=20 they also eat meat; they find spiders to be especially delicous. =20 =20 The Phanaton As A PC Race ABILITY SCORE ADJUSTMENTS: The initial ability scores are modified by a=20 +1 to Dexterity and Wisdom and a penalty of -1 to Strength and=20 Constitution.=20 =20 ABILITY SCORE RANGE: Ability: Minimum Maximum Strength 3 16 Dexterity 6 19 Constitution 3 16 Intelligence 3 18 Wisdom 6 19 Charisma 3 18 =20 CLASS RESTRICTIONS: Class: Maximum Level Kits Warrior Fighter 8 Myrmidon, Pirate/Outlaw, Wilderness Warrior, Tribal Defender, Wilderness Protector Ranger 12 [Unknown: I don't have the handbook] Paladin - Wizard Mage 7 Wokan, Witch, Savage, Hedge Wizard Illusionist - Priest Cleric - Druid 14 Jungle or Forest branches Shaman 7 Witch Doctor - Rogue Thief 12 Bandit, Scout, Adventurer, Beggar,=20 Cutpurse, Humanoid Bard Bard - Psionicist ? Wokan, Savage Multiclass Combinations: Fighter/Mage, Fighter/Druid, Fighter/Mage, Mage/Thief, Fighter/Mage/Thief= =20 Fighter/Shaman, Ranger/Shaman, Shaman/Thief =20 THIEVING SKILL RACIAL ADJUSTMENTS: PP: -10%, OL: -10%, FRT: -, MS: +10%,= =20 HS: +5%, DN: +5%, CW: +15%, RL: -15% HIT DICE: Phanaton player character receive hit dice by class. ALIGNMENT: Phanaton tend toward chaotic good. PC phanaton can be any=20 alignment, but tend toward chaotic good. NATURAL ARMOR CLASS: 7 BACKGROUND: see above AVERAGE HEIGHT AND WEIGHT: Height in Inches: 32/30 + 2d8 Weight in Pounds: 50/48 + 4d4 AGE: Starting: 15 + 1d4 Middle Age: 40 Old Age: 53 Venerable: 80 Maximun Age Range: 80 + 2d10 LANGUAGES: Elvish, Treant, Phanaton, common ROLE-PLAYING SUGGESTIONS: Phanaton prefer ambushes and sneak attacks=20 over direct conflict. They love nature and are very druidish, no matter=20 what their actual class. Phanaton warriors prefer simple weapons such as nets and staves. They=20 rarely use any metal weapons. They seldom wear clothing, as it interferes with their gliding, but=20 enjoy wearing decorations, makeup and jewelry of various sorts. SPECIAL ADVANTAGES: Opponents are -3 to surprise when the phanaton is in= =20 a forest or jungle setting. The phanaton also has a +2 bonus on saves,=20 and when among trees has the ability to move silently as a thief at 75%.=20 They can bite for 1d4 damage. They have a base move on the ground of 9,=20 and 15 while gliding. SPECIAL DISADVANTAGES: Phanaton will attack Aranea on sight, casting=20 aside all stealth and tactics. MONSTROUS TRAITS: Appearance SUPERSTITIONS: Hatred of spiders WEAPON PROFICIENCIES: Club, staff, net NONWEAPON PROFICIENCIES: Alertness, Animal Lore, Animal Noise, Artistic=20 Ability, Cooking, Craft Instrument, Danger Sense, Direction Sense,=20 Healing, Herbalism, Hiding, Hunting, Local History, Musical Instrument,=20 Natural Fighting, Rope Use, Set Snares, Survival: Forest/Jungle,=20 Tightrope Walking, Tracking, Weather Sense=20 Phanaton notes from the Red Steel box: Fifteen centuries past, the phanaton began to rise from complete=20 savagery, forming tribal groups and a few semi-permanent settlements. The past century, with a rash of colonization in the East, and the=20 growth of settlements in the center of the coast, the mages of Herath=20 began expanding to the south. There, they came into conflict with the=20 phanaton, who banded together even more firmly, having recently developed= =20 primitive government and law. The phanaton of the Orc's Head Peninsula are peaceful primitives=20 dwelling in tree-houses far above the forest floor in their homeland of=20 Jibar=A3. The phanaton are closely tuned to nature, and are protectors of= =20 the plants and animals of their homelands. Phanaton society is similar in= =20 many ways to shazak society (see following), though it has a much higher=20 proportion of druids. Latecomers to civilization, phanaton are just=20 beginning to institure a central government and systems of laws. They=20 seem to be headed toward a collective tribal government with an advisory=20 council of druids and shamans.=20 During the recent wars, the phanaton were attacked by manscorpions.=20 Though a few villages were lost, most of their inhabitants escaped and=20 were eventually able to drive back the manscorpions, who were=20 unaccustomed to fighting in any kind of foliage. Most of Jibar=A3 is free of the Red Curse. It has some native Inheritors,= =20 but these are rare. The origin of phanaton is unsure, but it seems likely that they came=20 from somewhere else and spread simultaneously to the Known World and the=20 Savage Coast. Ironically, the so-called savage race of phanaton is less=20 primitive than their cousins in other parts of the world. Afflicted are rare sights in the lands of the phanaton, but are accepted= =20 so long as they do not cause problems. The phanaton are somewhat awed by=20 Afflicted, and afford them great respect.=20 =20 Immortals: Ordana is revered in Jibar=A3 as U=A1. As U=A1, Ordana is the h= ead=20 of the phanaton pantheon, patron of the forest and protector of its=20 people. Ordana gave the phanaton the impetus toward civilization, so they= =20 might defend themselves from the aranea, whom Ordana hates as=20 manipulators of life. Ordana promotes commerce between phanaton and=20 wallera.=20 Terra is revered in Jibar=A3 as Mother-Earth or Marau-Ixuf. In Jibar=A3, s= he=20 is the patron of birth, life, and death. It was Terra who caused the=20 early phanaton to be predators, to balance the aranea threat. She=20 encourages commerce between the phanaton and the wallera. Zirchev is revered in Jibar=A3 as the Huntsman or Uatuma. In Jibar=A3, he = is=20 the patron of the hunt, as well as bravery and charm. He guides phanaton=20 hunting parties in times of crisis. Kudos to Dungeons & Dragons adventure module M5, "Talons of Night". Much= =20 history of the phanaton and aranea races is found there which was left=20 out of the Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix. =20 The Night Spider is an Immortal (pretty much a god) in the Sphere of=20 Entropy, or Death. Mighty heroes had discovered her truename and sought=20 to permanently destroy her evil. The Night Spider fled from her home=20 plane to a small planet on the Prime Material Plane (not knowing that it=20 would eventually rise to prominence) later called Mystara. With her came=20 Chaotic planar spiders (who would become the ancestors of the aranea) and= =20 phanaton slaves.=20 =20 Ages ago, planar spiders exiled to the Prime Plane for their evil founded= =20 the city of Aran on the Isle of Dawn, east of the future Empire of=20 Thyatis. Here they created the only known works of that arachnid=20 civilization (using the enslaved race of phanaton that accompanied them=20 here). Mighty webs intertwined with pearlescent pillars of magical stone=20 to create a lustrous city that scintillated in the rising dawn. Yet the=20 planar spiders' Chaotic descendants soon interbred with lesser giant=20 spiders and so formed the degenerate intelligent spider race known as=20 aranea.=20 On the isle of Dawn, aranea live in the dense forests or jungles=20 surrounding the crumbled ruins of Aran, spinning their web homes high in=20 the trees. Part of each web hut is roofed with bark, leaves, and vines=20 held together with webbing. In the covered parts of their lairs, the=20 aranea keep their crude tools, magical research, and crude furniture of=20 web, vines, bark, and wood. They spend much of their time researching=20 magic (allowing use of several spells that are exclusive to the aranea).=20 Several powerful planar spiders, including an exiled Immortal, serve as=20 rulers and living deities for the degenerate aranea. More prominent=20 aranea clan groups have enslaved the local phanaton to perform=20 manipulative tasks for them.=20 =20 The aranea and planar spiders are their ancient foes (an enmity that=20 predates the exile of these planar spiders on the Isle of Dawn). Bold=20 bands of phanaton attack these spider folk on sight. "During the feast, an elderly shaman recites the legend of the people's=20 origin:=20 "Long ago, the people and the spider folk lived together in harmony in=20 another place; a world made of lush forest and mighty thorns. The people=20 and their spider allies were caretakers of a mighty talisman, a small,=20 white, stone bird. All was peaceful until the greatest spider,=20 'She-Who-Dwells-in-Darkness', enslaved the people, stole their ancient=20 and holy white bird, then brought them to this place. "Long did the people serve their evil masters; but after generations,=20 the spiders became weak and the people escaped. They stole the white bird= =20 from under She-Who-Dwells-in-Darkness and sought the door to the old=20 place (for only the white bird could open the door). But the Spider had=20 hidden the door in a dark lake deep beneath earth, far below even her own= =20 black pit. In despair, the people cast the white bird into the great=20 river, knowing that someday, the holy bird would return and take them=20 home."=20 - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #69 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #70 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, 29 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 070 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Berg Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:07:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Phanaton PCs Still got the formatting codes on it, huh Dan? :) (FYI everybody, I'm DMing a PBEM where Dan is playing a phanaton. So far, I've dumped the poor phanaton into a magical version of a nuclear blast, a close encounter of the third kind, a smart-assed talking artifact, had a camel spit on him, and now he's running down a staircase after magically losing his tail, with a flood of flaming acid pouring after him. :) ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:46:27 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nucleus of the Spheres lotso speculation following: > That's what bugs me, really. The whole magic draining thing. The more I > think about it, the more ridiculous it becomes. You're telling me that > this one artifact actually drains off the magic of the Prime Plane? Okay. > I can buy that one. That's not the real problem. The problem is that for > some reason, use of the artifact by Glantrian mages causes the Prime > Plane's total magical output to be reduced so darned fast, on a cosmic > scale. As said by someone, in WoTI they imply its only Mystaras magic thats been drained... but who knows... > I mean, here you have a handful of mages- a few hundred thousand to a > million at tops! (The actual number who directly use the artifact is far I'd say a few thousand at tops. > fewer) This handful of mages cause such a drain that the entire magical handful = < 10 (1000 AC) > potential in the entire Plane- the entire UNIVERSE!!- is in danger of > being eliminated?!?!?! And the Immortals are actually concerned that this > will happen sometime soon? Anytime soon for the Immortals... not the mortals... Though some effects are allready seen... > Well, I can think of many reasons the immortals would go to war over the > artifact, that's not the problem. The biggest issues here are a) how can > the magical energy be drained so totally as to not be put back into play > in the universe? The 'energy cannot be destroyed, only changed' issue > that is the cornerstone of physics. I suppose I could see this as the > artifact not destroying magic, but changing it into some other energy > form. Okay, I answered my own point. Right. The magical energy is transformed into radience. The artifact radiates radience just as much no matter how many users, as the users dont tap right to the machine but take the radience 'from the air'. Hence the order of radience: the rad is more powerful nearer to the artifact. Hence no matter how many users. I have no problem here. Just think how much radience the thing makes. Enough for a mortal to become a god. And then think how much rad is losed, as only some of the power produced at any given time is really collected at the receptors and used... Though it does seem that using rad makes the draining faster. otherwise there were no reason to stop using it. I believe the rad the Nucleus produces is only some kind of primal rad, and it is made more powerful by the magics of the mages, so the used rad counts for more than the primal rad... well anyway... > but b) how big a danger could possibly be caused by this small portion of > mages using the artifact? I imagine the amount of magical energy in the > Prime to be substantial- at the very least, it seems it would require > thousands of millions of years for the mages of Glantri to use enough > power to completely drain the Prime Plane of its magic. Thousands. If I remember right. But only if they wouldnt start using it more... And the effects would increase gradually. now there is 1 no-magic day in year. Soon there would be more... the elves and other magical races would start dieing younger etc... The summary is: The Nucleus is the more dangerous the longer it is used. And about the situation now... As the Nucleus now drains Entropy, it means that magics are now safe. But the entropics arent. Soon there would be no more undeads nor necromantic magics. And the immortals born would really be of the entropic nature. But not neccessarily. It depends on wether you think the speres of immortals are a must be thing or more a thing of convenience. Of alliance begun on the hierarchy of patronage... And anyways it would be easy to make the immortals to ba energetic too... In my recent campaing one of the characters became an immortal of radience, and so an immortal of energy. After the WoTI though he has noted that the more he uses rad now, the more he becomes an immortal of Entropy... which has caused him more than a bit of problem... Also in my campaing McGregor has became on immo of entropy too. Just after the WoTI. Though he prefers to stay in Klantyre rather than some plane :) Hope somebody got something... - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:58:28 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mystara] Forsetta (was Re: [Mystara] Mystara FAQ) On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jenni A. Merrifield wrote: > Hey Mystarans! > > A couple of things: > > 1) > Immortals -- any further "research" on any of the lesser known ones? > Are Cretia, Forset, and Arik "complete"? Any addendums and/or new insight? > That's all! > -=< strawberryJAMM >=- you meant Forsetta, right? "Forsetta: Temporal, sphere of matter; AL: L. He is a minor Immortal folowed in the nation of Vestland; his Philosophy is one of unserving obedience to lawful rulers. (x3, page 6)" -Codex of the Immortals I dont like him really. What does he do in the Norse "pantheon"? Odin is the God of Kings, thats the reason why the Nortwegians didnt like Odin. Anyway, Forsetta could have fopllowers in other Antillan areas like Norwold, and especially Wendar. Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:08:20 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Phanaton PCs On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Berg wrote: > Still got the formatting codes on it, huh Dan? :) > > (FYI everybody, I'm DMing a PBEM where Dan is playing a phanaton. > So far, I've dumped the poor phanaton into a magical version of a nuclear blast, > a close encounter of the third kind, a smart-assed talking artifact, had a > camel spit on him, and now he's running down a staircase after magically losing > his tail, with a flood of flaming acid pouring after him. :) > Hey, id like to hear that story :) Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:56:16 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) On Thu, 15 Feb 1996 JOEGERBER@delphi.com wrote: > My very IMHO on Benekander (I don't really know whether or not to place him in > the above list, just as I'm not sure whether his [Immortal] age should be 9 > yeras or c 6000 years) and Rad's origins is an extension of what is given in > Wrath of the Immortals. I view the *entire* Mystaran "known" multiverse as a > series of 3-spaces inside of a single 4-space. I view Old Averoigne, Benekder'shome world, the AD&D multiverse, etc. as seperate and distinct 4-spaces within > a single 5-space; each 4-space has its own corresponding set of 3-spaces. > This does raise some interesting questions for all you Immortal-level PC's out > there; such as how did certain races develop "cross-dimensional", and where did > the inspiritaition for for common created races come from? > I dont understand your concept of Dimesnion. Using the Old Immortals Set definition of dimensions, I cannot see how a several 3-spaces can be contained in a 4-space etc.. Also, wouldnt this mean no magic, since magic depends on the fifth Dimension. > Wow--my de-lurk and I'm already talking Metaphysics that only someone with a > 18+ Int can understand... Perhaps thats my problem..... > Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:55:04 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) > I dont understand your concept of Dimesnion. Using the Old > Immortals Set definition of dimensions, I cannot see how a several > 3-spaces can be contained in a 4-space etc.. Side by side? :) > Also, wouldnt this mean no magic, since magic depends on the fifth Dimension. Not neccessarily fifth, but it takes one anyhow... > > Wow--my de-lurk and I'm already talking Metaphysics that only someone with a > > 18+ Int can understand... Or someone with int 3- - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: Robert Kaelin Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:56:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nucleus of the Spheres Here's how I view the mechanics of the nucleus. (I know you don't need to worry about it, but a little theorizing never hurts.) From what I understood. The nucleus was the source of all magical energy in Mystara. (I admit to not knowing much about pre-nucleus Mystara so I don't know exactly how magic worked before it.) When the Old One tampered with the engine of the Beagle, it became the gateway to magical power in the world. Much like the Sun is the gateway for light and heat into the world. Magic flows through the nucleus (it actually converts raw "Energy" into magic) , and it is this energy that all mages call upon to work their spells. However, being a gateway for all magic, the nucleus itself contains a great deal of power. It is the actual power of the nucleus that mages who work with the radiance draw upon. Unlike the sphere's of Energy and Entropy (which have virtually unlimited power even compared to immortals) the Nucleus itself is far from limitless in power. When the nucleus is drained, the "gateway" into Mystara is made smaller, and less reliable. Another way to view the draining is to say the nucleus needs a tremendous amount of power to hold the gateway open. When it's drained it will occaisonally need to "close down to recharge" which explains why magic fails in such descrete time increments (1 day/yr, 1 wk/yr, etc.) instead of just failing say "10% of the time all year around." It also makes it more playable. :-) When the nucleus was altered so that it drained power from Entropy instead of Energy, I just ruled that the nucleus was "recalibrated" to converting magic from pure Energy to converting magic from pure Entropy. I had never thought of this as requiring any who become an immortal using the radiance to be an immortal of Entropy, but it certainly makes sense. (I applaud whoever suggested this's deviousness.) :-) I already rule that people who use the Radiance find their magic "tainted" by Entropy. Spells (not just the radiance ones) cast by a user of the Radiance tend to have more "accidental malevolent affects". "Gee, I don't know why you got caught in my fireball, I could have you'd be just outside it's area of affect." I've also upped the chance of having a body part shrivled increased to 5% per use from 1% for radiance spells. (I figure most of the brotherhood of Rad will be liches with 5-10 years of steady use, unless they're REALLY careful.) But messing with Artifacts is never a really safe thing. - -Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence, Inc. E-mail: Kaelin@natural.com 725 Concord Ave. Phone: (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge, Ma. 02138 WWW: www.natural.com USA - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ From: JOEGERBER@delphi.com Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:55:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) What I ment was that as each *Plane* is its own reality, each dimension (set of panes     planes) is also an entirely seperate ra eality. For the mathmatically-minded (or people running Nomena :-), I IIRC (it" 's been 4 years since my last advanced math class), a   every n-space can be thought ofas   as a subset of a every n+1 space. For example, lines are a subset of the pa lane in which they lie, planes atr  re a subset of the space, etc. R This probally made this subject clear as mud, but... Joe Gerber ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:28:21 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nucleus of the Spheres On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Robert Kaelin wrote: > Here's how I view the mechanics of the nucleus. (I know you don't need to > worry about it, but a little theorizing never hurts.) [snip] I dont agree with all your theories but I like this one: > I already rule that people who use the Radiance find their magic "tainted" > by Entropy. Spells (not just the radiance ones) cast by a user of the > Radiance tend to have more "accidental malevolent affects". "Gee, I don't > know why you got caught in my fireball, I could have you'd be just outside > it's area of affect." I've also upped the chance of having a body part > shrivled increased to 5% per use from 1% for radiance spells. (I figure > most of the brotherhood of Rad will be liches with 5-10 years of steady > use, unless they're REALLY careful.) Perhaps a bit too extreme for my liking, but yes...enthrophy should affect the magic, also power does have a price, but I still like to see this as a blow to the Immortals of entrophy.. Undead and necromancy will become rarer, as someone pointed out. Anyone have more ideas on how the corruption thing works? > > But messing with Artifacts is never a really safe thing. Ofcourse, to mortals at least. Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Robert Kaelin Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:07:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nucleus of the Spheres >Perhaps a bit too extreme for my liking, but yes...enthrophy should >affect the magic, also power does have a price, but I still like to see >this as a blow to the Immortals of entrophy.. >Undead and necromancy will become rarer, as someone pointed out. >Anyone have more ideas on how the corruption thing works? Wouldn't that be ironic... Using it makes undead rarer, but over-using it makes you an undead... :-) I don't think necromany should be made rarer. Just decrease the effect of entropy over the entire world, average life span starts to increase (maybe by a year every generation), plagues just aren't as bad any more (they're still not picnics but maybe 1-5% more survive), lackeys of Entropy (demons) become harder to summon, items don't degrade in quailty as fast over time, etc. Not huge changes, not even changes noticble by mortals, but it'll annoy the immortals of Entropy to no end. Maybe the penalty for over-using it should be changed? Insanity? Possession? (Maybe the lackeys of Entropy, who are now harder to summon, try to take over the Radiance user to gain the access to Mystara they used to have.) Both are good because they can be used gradually, with 10 worsening steps like the withering does now. (10% chance your insanity/possesor gains control of you during an important and/or stressful time, then 20%, 30% etc.) Translating lots of short, violent alignment changes with a general trend toward evil. Although, now that I think of it, some insanity's don't really have to lead toward evil. It could just as well be chaotic neutral, maybe even good (if you become obessesed with fighting some ancient foe, or building some massive, not necesarily evil, empire). It might provide for some interesting role-playing. Maybe use the wild surge tables, (or make our own) to have random affects when casting spells? The reason being that a mage who over-uses the radiance fries his "fine tuning" and beings to lose control of simpler magics. >> But messing with Artifacts is never a really safe thing. > >Of course, to mortals at least. Like it did Rad any good in the long run. :-) - -Bob - ---------------------------------------------------------- Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence, Inc. E-mail: Kaelin@natural.com 725 Concord Ave. Phone: (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge, Ma. 02138 WWW: www.natural.com USA - ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:02:59 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nucleus of the Spheres Some very interesting ideas out there- I hadn't even really thought about the whole entropy conversion thing- though I think there is probably a lot more entropy out there than you might think- I mean, all those people who die/are killed (and come on, this is a fantasy world- there's lots! of them :) ) all of those dead would help to feed the artifact- so it would probably be drained a lot more slowly. Wonder what this conversion might do to Limbo (the dimension of the dead, as it were)? Anyway, I had another theory last night, that I thought I might toss out and share. (In case you hadn't guessed yet- I'm a pretty serious realist; I like very rational explanations of things in my, albeit _fantasy_, world. Very odd, especially considering how laid back I am in real life... but that's neither here nor there.) The theory came from the concept of only the magic on Mystara being drained. How could this be, if the source of magical energy in the Prime is the same? Well, I did some thinking and came up with this: The nucleus of the spheres is a magical/nuclear reactor. It converts radiation ambient in the atmosphere of Mystara into raw magical power. It is this raw power the users of the Radience (and that's what we'll call the power) the users draw upon- as opposed to the refined magic that powers spells. All well and good. However, there is a side effect. (What? A side effect from an artifact? :) The artifact doesn't perform complete conversions of energy- there is a certain amount of waste given off. This waste then seeps into the foundations of the world, and interacts somehow with the World Shield in the crust of the planet. The result of the interaction is that either a) the World Shield expands and grows, or b) the World Shield merely becomes stronger, without expanding. The end result, either way, is that the anti-magical properties of the World Shield increase, and begin to severely hamper the abilities of the mages and magical creatures on Mystara. (Not to mention that it might cause havoc with the Spell of Preservation cast on the Hollow world, which makes use of the World shield- and possibly causing gravitational problems as well- more than enough reason for Ixion to get upset, methinks.) This does take place slowly (I just reread my Glantri gazetteer), even with a maximal amount of users, it would still take something like 800 years for all the magic to be 'drained'/blocked. I figure this has something to do with seepage rates (it takes a while for enough waste to seep down to the World Shield to affect it) Anyway, what do you all think? ------------------------------ From: Robert Kaelin Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 16:13:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nucleus of the Spheres >This does take place slowly (I just reread my Glantri gazetteer), even >with a maximal amount of users, it would still take something like 800 >years for all the magic to be 'drained'/blocked. I figure this has >something to do with seepage rates (it takes a while for enough waste to >seep down to the World Shield to affect it) I like it, but I don't use the Hollow World (and as such don't really need or want a World Shield.) If the Immortals created the World Shield (which I'm assuming since they're powers are unafected by it, so at least they're more powerful then it) then shouldn't they be able to repair the damage done by the radiance? For the Immortals to be unable to stop the drain it has to involve elements beyond their control. Also, why does magic fail in descreet time increments? It seems a lot like the recharge rate of some magic items, particularly artifacts. This supports the idea that the Artifact itself is recharging, and not supplying magic at certain times. Unless the World Shield somehow "pulses" and grows in power only occaisionally. Maybe letting off excess waste or energy, kinda like magic-dead solar flares. - -Bob - ---------------------------------------------------------- Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence, Inc. E-mail: Kaelin@natural.com 725 Concord Ave. Phone: (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge, Ma. 02138 WWW: http://www.natural.com USA - ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 22:05:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) At 10.55 29/02/96 -0500, you wrote: > What I ment was that as each *Plane* is its own reality, each dimension (set of panes     planes) is also an entirely seperate ra eality. > > For the mathmatically-minded (or people running Nomena :-), I >IIRC (it" 's been 4 years since my last advanced math class), a   every >n-space can be thought ofas   as a subset of a every n+1 space. For >example, lines are a subset of the pa lane in which they lie, planes >atr  re a subset of the space, etc. > > R This probally made this subject clear as mud, but... > >Joe Gerber > > Please repost this. Thanks. ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr brizio@lunet.it Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 23:04:25 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nucleus of the Spheres At 13.02 29/02/96 -0700, you wrote: >Some very interesting ideas out there- I hadn't even really thought about >the whole entropy conversion thing- though I think there is probably a >lot more entropy out there than you might think- I mean, all those people >who die/are killed (and come on, this is a fantasy world- there's lots! >of them :) ) all of those dead would help to feed the artifact- so it >would probably be drained a lot more slowly. Wonder what this conversion >might do to Limbo (the dimension of the dead, as it were)? > Well, remember that in a fantasy world there are clerics with spells like "raise dead", so many people (especially PC :) ) who are killed or die while adventuring are raised. And remember that only when someone dies of unnutural death entropic force is released in the Prime Plane. Anyway, yes there is still a lot of entropy out there. About Limbo: IMO Limbo isn't made of Entropy, because souls are made of Thought and Energy. Moreover the Minion and Masters of Chaos who rule Limbo are fierce enemies of entropic creatures, such as fiends and the like. [your theory snipped] >Anyway, what do you all think? > I liked Robert's theory most. Your theory with the World Shield sounds a bit too entangled for me. Then, if the Radiance seeps into the crust of the planet, what happens to the caves below and around Glantri City (I'm thinking to the Shadow Elf territories)? BTW: Rafiel is an immortal of Energy and Soul Crystals draw upon the power of the Radiance (i.e. Energy), but what happens after WotI: do they draw upon Entropy or what else ? Perhaps the Shamans ended working on Rafiel's project deep in the Chamber of the Spheres ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr brizio@lunet.it Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:42:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nucleus of the Spheres > If the Immortals created the World Shield (which I'm assuming since they're > powers are unafected by it, so at least they're more powerful then it) Well... according to the canon TSR sources, the Immortals only discovered the World Shield, not create it (though I could muddy the waters by saying that they moved the polar openings after the poles shifted..). Also, the World Shield does block at least Immortal divinatory magic through it (or it did a few eons ago, anyway). > then shouldn't they be able to repair the damage done by the radiance? For > the Immortals to be unable to stop the drain it has to involve elements > beyond their control. Considering the fact that an Old One is involved, it's very likely that there are elements beyond Immortal control. :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #70 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #71 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Sunday, 3 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 071 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 09:45:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] A New and Improved FAQ... OK, so it isn't really new, just slightly modified. Now included is a section on the new e-mail file access. The subscription section is a bit altered, but shouldn't affect current subscribers. Comments are welcome, as always. -- CREDIT -- In the belief of giving credit where credit is due, this FAQ was based on the GURPSnet-L FAQ, which was written by Sean Barrett, who is also the author of GURPS Lensmen. It's a good book. Check it out. Additional changes were made on the advise of Sir George Anonymous. --- INTRODUCTION --- Mystara is one TSR's fantasy game settings for use with it's xD&D games, and the Mystara Mailing List is for discussing this setting. In addition, the list is also a place for discussing the Original Dungeons and Dragons game. --- HOW TO SUB, POST, AND UNSUB --- Q: How do I subscribe to Mystara-L? A: To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@io.com. (Note that this is not the posting address.) In the body, have the single line... subscribe Mystara-L Q: How do I post to Mystara-L? A: To post, send your message to mystara-l@io.com. (Note that this is not the subscribe/unsubscribe address.) Your message will be sent to every subscriber, including yourself. Q: How do I unsubscribe to Mystara-L? A: To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@io.com. (Note that this is not the posting address.) In the body, have the single line... unsubscribe Mystara-L Q: Can I get the messages in digest form? A: Sure. Use the procedure above to subscribe, only substitute Mystara-Digest for Mystara-L. Q: What's a digest? A: The digest version of the list saves up the messages until they reach a specified volume or time period, then sends them out as a single long message, instead of one at a time. There is no savings on space or noise, but it is useful for people who can only pick up their messages once a day, or who are charged per message rather than by message size. - POSTING - Q: What can a person talk about on the Mystara Mailing List (MML)? A: The MML is for the discussion of ... 1) Mystara in both it's D&D and AD&D incarnations. 2) How other TSR settings and supplements interact with Mystara (i.e. Spelljammer,Planescape, Ravenloft, Chronomancer, Shaman, etc.) 3) How one might recreate Mystara through other game systems (i.e GURPS, Hero, Rolemaster, Bridge, etc.) 4) Original Dungeons & Dragons (a.k.a. Basic D&D, or just D&D) Q: What can't a person talk about on the MML? A: The MML is not for general discussion of TSR's other fantasy worlds, AD&D, or other game systems. Q: Why is it that you can discuss general D&D, but not general AD&D? A: The available resources for AD&D far surpass D&D. As far as this FAQ writer knows, there is no list dedicated solely to D&D, so this list tries to make up for that. If one is looking for discussion of general AD&D, one does not have to look hard. In addition, D&D was the original system that Mystara was designed under. Q: So, is the list admin an Ogre who will ban me from the list if a thread starts to stray from Mystara? A: Actually, the admin is a really nice guy who set up this list out of love for Mystara, not to hold power over others. (Well, maybe a little power). The admin will only intervene if the topics start to stray too far for too long, or if there is a general consensus from members that a thread must die. Q: How can I contact the admin without sending mail to the entire list? A: The admin can be contacted through e-mail, at the following address: owner-mystara-l@io.com Feel free to drop the admin an e-line. He's open to opinions and suggestions about the list, or this FAQ, or his hygeine. Q: Can I advertise on MML? A: If you have Mystara or other D&D products for sale, feel free to post an ad to MML. If you are running an auction, though, do it from r.g.f.marketplace, with an announcement in MML. The sale of other items is disallowed. Posting any sort of chain letter or Make Money Fast! ads is a good way to get kicked off. Q: How about Fluff (game-based fiction)? A: No, at this point. How ever, if a majority of people on the list want it, this may change. Pointers to where fluff can be found is all right, as long as they are innocuous. Informing the list every time you complete a chapter of your two hundred chapter epic is not innocuous. Q: Can I ask if there are any gamers in my area? A: Sure, but keep it short, and don't get carried away with frequency. Posting such a question once a week is delving into the shadowy world of Spam (a twisted, inhuman realm). Q: Such and such product is out of print/too expensive/only available in R'lyeh. Can I ask someone on the list to type/scan/copy it for me? A: Anyone that engages in blatant copyright infringement on the list will get a warning. Further violations will result in a ban from the list. --- FTP & WWW SITES --- Q: We ought to have an FTP or WWW site where we can make stuff available. A: Currently, there are no dedicated MML sites, but there are a lot of sites out there that hold gigs of xD&D stuff (like MPGN). A person can get Mystara files through e-mail, though. The files are works and ideas that have been posted to the list and saved by the admin. Simply send e-mail to majordomo@io.com with one of these commands in the body of the letter... index mystara-l This shows what files are available get mystara-l Retrieves the file asked for help Explains all commands available In addition, a person can retrieve digest back issues. Use the same commands, above, substituting mystara-l with mystara-digest. These files are in the proccess of being cleaned up and indexed, so a few changes may occur in the future. These will be announced. ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 18:39:42 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Prophecies I was just looking over Joshuan's Almanac again the other night. Rereading the prophecies mentioned in the back, I got to thinking about what they could be foretelling (too bad we'll never know for sure- since this is the last almanac. :( ) I thought this might be a good topic to discuss on the list- what do you think they might be foretelling for events taking place in 1014? My thoughts- #1) Obviously a reference to the shadowelves. Something about 'the blighted oaks'? I think it refers to the possible civil war that is predicted numerous times throughout the book. #2) I think this refers to the final defeat of Thar and Psa'gh in the Soderfjord Jarldoms. It mentions 'a meeting of two fearsome hordes' or something, that will be defeated 'much to the relief of Northern lords.' #3) The return of the Karameikan expedition to the Hollow World is my guess on this one. "They return from the north" or something like that (as you can see, I'm reciting from memory, so these quotes are hardly accurate). I'm thinking that in 1014 this expedition finally returns, with news confirming Claransa's book on the Hollow World. Doubtless a new scramble for exploiting the Hollow World begins- not to mention that those join Thyatian/Minrothad troops are likely going to be busy defending Aegos. #4) This is the one that was the most difficult to figure out- "from the depths it rises"- could refer to a lot of things. My initial thought was maybe the devilfish from Undersea, rising up against that kingdom, but this didn't seem terribly likely. Or the Behemoth- though that was supposedly destroyed. My latest thought is this- Oenkmar will, with the help of Shadowelf magic, rise again from the depths of the Broken Lands, and become the capitol of a new Shadowelf kingdom. What repercussions this will have on Aengmor, and the surrounding lands is anyone's guess... #5) Apparently a reference to the Heldannic Knights. My guess is that after their inquisition, they've peeved Vanya off, and something big is going to happen. A civil war, maybe? ------------------------------ From: gd71@primenet.com Date: Sun, 04 Mar 1990 12:13:21 -0700 Subject: [Mystara] Do you need help? WHERE DO YOU STAND? Yes No ___ ___ Do you have a gameplan to control debt in your life? ___ ___ Do you have a program in place to fund your children's education? ___ ___ Are you saving enough to provide for retirement security? ___ ___ Are you happy with your overall financial picture? Most people know exactly what they want but they don't have any idea how to accomplish it. That's where we come in - we can help you to develop your personal program to achieve financial independence. Our Common Sense Plan program will analyze your financial needs and illustrate the various options to help you to prepare for your financial future. THERE IS NO CHARGE FOR THIS SERVICE. It takes about 15 minutes to complete the enclosed form. Then e-mail it back to me. Please call me at 520-452-0327 if you have questions or e-mail to gd71@primenet.com Sincerely, Gary D. Dickey Representative Primerica Financial Services, member of Travelers Group 604A Graham Avenue Sierra Vista, AZ 85635 FAX 520-452-0327 E-Mail: gd71@primenet.com Securities offered through: PFS Investments, Inc. Member NASD and SIPC Home Office: Duluth, Georgia 30199-001 (770) 381-1000 Primerica Life Insurance Company/Executive Offices: Duluth, GA PERSONAL GOALS: Amount Years Required Description $______ _______________ ______________ Dream Car $______ _______________ ______________ D/P on Dream Home $______ _______________ ______________ College for children $______ _______________ ______________ Weddings $______ _______________ ___________________________________ $______ _______________ Age __________ Retirement Our Business Is About Helping People 1. Do you own an IRA? _____ Current Amount ? $______ Rate of Return?___% 2. Do you have an emergency savings?______ If Yes - Amount ? $______ 3. Do you get a tax refund?____ If Yes-Amount? $ _____ # of Deductions___ 4. Do you own bank credit card(s) ?_____ If Yes - Average Interest Rate?____ % Total Balance(s)? $__________ 5. Deductible on your car insurance? $_______ Home insurance? $________ 6. Do you own Hospitalization insurance?______ Monthly Premium? $ ______ Do you own Disability insurance? ______ Monthly Premium? $ _______ 7. What is the interest rate on your home mortgage?_________% 8. Do you own Credit Life or Mortgage Protection? _________ 9. Do you own personal life insurance? _______ Amount of protection on you? $_______ Monthly Premium? $______ Amount of protection on spouse? $_______ Monthly Premium? $______ Amount of protection on children? $_______ Monthly Premium? $______ Amount of group protection-you? $_______ Monthly Premium? $______ Amount of group protection-spouse $_______ Monthly Premium? $______ 10. If your spouse's income stopped today, how much monthly income would you want in addition to your income? Wife $____ Husband $__________ For how long? Wife _____ yrs Husband ______yrs 11. How much money would you want per month to retire today? $_________ At what age would you like to retire? ____________ What have you currently saved? $___________ What inflation rate would you expect? ______% (4-5% historically) 12. Do you want to help send your children to college? _________ What annual amount do you want to provide (today's dollars)? $_______ Current savings ? $__________ Monthly savings? $________ 13. What % of your current income can you save toward your family's future? 5% _______ 10% ________ 15% _______ of monthly income 14. If I could show you how to have more money if you live, more money if you die, and do it without costing you any more money than you are currently spending, could we possibly do some business? ________ ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 11:28:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Do you need help? On Sun, 4 Mar 1990 gd71@primenet.com wrote: > WHERE DO YOU STAND? > > Yes No > ___ ___ Do you have a gameplan to control debt in your life? > > ___ ___ Do you have a program in place to fund your children's [snip] Well, looks like we have been Spammed. This post has appeared on almost all of the RPG mailing lists I am on. Please, do not respond to this. I will do my best to see that this person loses their account. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: Jason Zavoda Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 15:02:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Do you need help? How did this bunch of @$*&$??@%** get onto the mailing list, can we spam this guy? Jason Zavoda On Sun, 4 Mar 1990 gd71@primenet.com wrote: > WHERE DO YOU STAND? > > Yes No > ___ ___ Do you have a gameplan to control debt in your life? > > ___ ___ Do you have a program in place to fund your children's > education? > > ___ ___ Are you saving enough to provide for retirement security? > > ___ ___ Are you happy with your overall financial picture? > > > Most people know exactly what they want but they don't have > any idea how to accomplish it. That's where we come in - we can > help you to develop your personal program to achieve financial > independence. Our Common Sense Plan program will analyze > your financial needs and illustrate the various options to > help you to prepare for your financial future. THERE IS NO > CHARGE FOR THIS SERVICE. > > It takes about 15 minutes to complete the enclosed form. Then > e-mail it back to me. > Please call me at 520-452-0327 if you have questions or e-mail to > gd71@primenet.com > > Sincerely, > > Gary D. Dickey > Representative > > Primerica Financial Services, member of Travelers Group > 604A Graham Avenue > Sierra Vista, AZ 85635 > FAX 520-452-0327 > E-Mail: gd71@primenet.com > > ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 15:30:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Do you need help? At 11:28 AM 3/3/96 -0800, you wrote: > Well, looks like we have been Spammed. This post has appeared on >almost all of the RPG mailing lists I am on. > Please, do not respond to this. I will do my best to see that this >person loses their account. Is there anything you'd like us to do to help (i.e. should we forward the ad to the service provider too?). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ David "Azure" Leland ~~~ e-mail: azure@cs.oberlin.edu ~~ ~~ Oberlin College ~~~ snail-mail: OCMR 1375 / Oberlin, OH 44074 ~~ ~~ **Creative Writing ~~~ phone/fax: (216) 775-5582 ~~ ~~ **Cognitive Science ~~~ WWW: http://www.oberlin.edu/~dleland ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Sun, 3 Mar 96 12:55 PST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Prophecies At 06:39 PM 3/1/96 -0700, Cthuludrew wrote: >I was just looking over Joshuan's Almanac again the other night. >Rereading the prophecies mentioned in the back, I got to thinking about >what they could be foretelling (too bad we'll never know for sure- since >this is the last almanac. :( ) > >I thought this might be a good topic to discuss on the list- what do you >think they might be foretelling for events taking place in 1014? > >My thoughts- > >#1) Obviously a reference to the shadowelves. Something about 'the >blighted oaks'? I think it refers to the possible civil war that is >predicted numerous times throughout the book. > >#2) I think this refers to the final defeat of Thar and Psa'gh in the >Soderfjord Jarldoms. It mentions 'a meeting of two fearsome hordes' or >something, that will be defeated 'much to the relief of Northern lords.' > You know, this doesn't neccesarily mean that Thar and Psa'gh are slain, does it, maybe they just lose their soldiers, and so, their power. I don't know about that yet though, its just an idea. >#3) The return of the Karameikan expedition to the Hollow World is my >guess on this one. "They return from the north" or something like that >(as you can see, I'm reciting from memory, so these quotes are hardly >accurate). I'm thinking that in 1014 this expedition finally returns, >with news confirming Claransa's book on the Hollow World. Doubtless a new >scramble for exploiting the Hollow World begins- not to mention that >those join Thyatian/Minrothad troops are likely going to be busy >defending Aegos. > Doubtless there are going to be some immortals involved, if the outer world is going to scramble to exploit the hollow world. There might even be another big war, because entropic immortals will see this as a chance to spread entropy, and those who oppose the immortals who take care of the hollow like Alphaks, Atzanteotl, Hel, Thanatos world will want to participate. The immortals like Ka, Ixion, Atruatzin, Ilsundal will probaply oppose them because they want the hollow world to be a place for civilizations whjo dissapear from the outer world. I don't have enough time at this moment to look at my hollow world and WoTI stuff, so I'll send in some more names later, and maybe other people could too, and what they think they will do and why, perhaps. Now perchance more outer and hollow world inhabitants will begin to know of each other and there might be some movement in and out. >#4) This is the one that was the most difficult to figure out- "from the >depths it rises"- could refer to a lot of things. My initial thought was >maybe the devilfish from Undersea, rising up against that kingdom, but >this didn't seem terribly likely. Or the Behemoth- though that was >supposedly destroyed. My latest thought is this- Oenkmar will, with the >help of Shadowelf magic, rise again from the depths of the Broken Lands, >and become the capitol of a new Shadowelf kingdom. What repercussions >this will have on Aengmor, and the surrounding lands is anyone's guess... > One Behemoth was destroyed, but there could be others in the depths of the ocean too, or did an Almanac say it was unique? If not, I think it could be another, but I don't know, I'll have Joshuan's Almanac soon. I think that if it is Oenkmar returning, they would likely ally with Aengmor, and perhaps try to expand. Glantri, the humanoids, and Darokin would probably oppose this. I don't think the Ethengar Khanates or Rockhome would be especially worried, because the nomads of the Steppes can go wherever they want there, and I doubt the shadow elves are interested in the steppes or the Rockhome area of mountains. However, cowardly humanoids could leave and go to those areas... Karameikos and the five Shires won't be worried unless the shadow elves in Aengmor start being aggressive, I think. >#5) Apparently a reference to the Heldannic Knights. My guess is that >after their inquisition, they've peeved Vanya off, and something big is >going to happen. A civil war, maybe? > > It sounds like there could be several wars all over Mystara. My other thoughts- We on Mystara-l could collaborate to make the AC 1014 Almanac. How about it? Just because TSR isn't making it because they're not making enough money off it, doesn't mean it has to be the last almanac! I think its a great topic. Those who have the 3 Poor Wizard's Almanacs and Joshuan's Almanac and want to should look through them and see what's happening and what they think these events shall lead to. We probably don't need all that stuff like the world overview, though, just the events. Of course some of the events could change some of the information, but we can update that too. I just thought of something though. Differnent people might have ideas for events that conflict. For example someone could say the elves of Alfhiem and thier allies reclaim the land of Alfhiem, and someone else, the city of the shadow elves comes up from within the earth and no one bothers them at all because there are too many shadow elves. I guess my main question is do all you other people on the list want to cooperate to make a timeline and events sort of thing (which could have that problem of disagreements), or end up with possibly conflicting, less Almanac-style group of events? Of course, we could all discuss what we think the major events are going to be first, like there is a revolution in Glantri for example. Then if everyone agrees on a certain event, we can think up details like who starts it, and where it begins, and which places are on which sides, and where and when battles take place, and how other countries react. I think we should talk about a good number of major things before we start making the official version or whatever. So what do you all think? I certainly will participate in the making of an Almanac or just discussion of events, whatever we end up doing. I personally would enjoy making an Almanac because then maybe it could be a netbook-type file that is saved on the server or wherever all those Mystara files are. By the way, I don't have Joshuan's Almanac yet because my local gaming store just got it in a little while ago and I'll be getting it asap, so if I had any ideas in the next few days that conflict with it, please notify me so we can change them or not use them. This reply was by David Melik at darwin@gp.magick.net, but please send replies to the listserv instead of me so everyone can see it. ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Sun, 3 Mar 96 12:55 PST Subject: [Mystara] Guns on mystara? Gimme a break! In the Red Steel boxed set, it talked about guns on Mystara. They had wheellock pistols or something. Now in 1996 TSR renamed their title the Savage Coast, and you can be sure there are guns in it. I think that this is just crap. I think whoever made that crap up should have their @$$ kicked! Mystara is supposed to be a medieval and ancient civilization time area of epic fantasy! Its okay to have a renaissance, but that does not mean that guns have to be invented on Mystara just because they were at that time on earth. What I did is disregard it. I decided that this wheellock thing they mention is a gnomish invention, a wheel fired crossbow, where you turn the wheel to fire the arrows. I haven't made stats for it yet. Any ideas? In the red steel cd some guy said "and this gnome had a loaded wheellock pointed at my head" or something like that, so If anyone wants to use the cd but wants to have the Mystara campaign setting the way it really should be, this is a good solution. Another thing to do, if you're crazy or want to use guns, is say its a novelty, very rare, poorly made, dangerous, expensive, not very effective, short range, etc., so only rich people have it and pc's won't know about it or want to use it, that way you can conform and use the official crap if you want. ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Sun, 3 Mar 96 12:55 PST Subject: [Mystara] old Mystara stuff buying and selling I need some of the original D&D Mystara things, and I'm sure others of you do too. How about if anyone has any extras, sees Mystara things at game shops, newsgroups, etc., they could tell the listserv about them, so we can all help each other to increase our Mystara collections. I am willing to look at my game store every time I go. right now they have some adventures, a hollow world gazeteer, and maybe other stuff, but I have all the ones they have already. I'll post the specifics soon. This way us Mystara fans won't have to search so much through newsgroups and other things to find the roughly 1% Mystara stuff advertised that we might already have, and if we see ones around that we have we can sell them to others in other states because they can't come to our game shops. How about it? ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 21:01:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] old Mystara stuff buying and selling > I need some of the original D&D Mystara things, and I'm sure others of you > do too. How about if anyone has any extras, sees Mystara things at game > shops, newsgroups, etc., they could tell the listserv about them, so we can > all help each other to increase our Mystara collections. I am willing to > look at my game store every time I go. right now they have some adventures, > a hollow world gazeteer, and maybe other stuff, but I have all the ones they > have already. I'll post the specifics soon. This way us Mystara fans won't > have to search so much through newsgroups and other things to find the > roughly 1% Mystara stuff advertised that we might already have, and if we > see ones around that we have we can sell them to others in other states > because they can't come to our game shops. How about it? Well, according to Leroy, it's fine to advertise Mystara-related merchandise IFF we dont make a habit of it.(posting the same junk each week) So, one post once you have your list together should be fine. Also, everyone should check Jason Zavoda's large Mystara sale on r.g.f.marketplace All's fair in love and big game hunting --- Chumsly ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 21:27:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Immortal postings I am about to start on some more "new" immortal posts. Should I keep using the same format I used for Pana,Melo and Alexander? or should I change the format in anyway? All's fair in love and big game hunting --- Chumsly ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 20:53:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Guns on mystara? Gimme a break! On Sun, 3 Mar 1996, David Melik wrote: > In the Red Steel boxed set, it talked about guns on Mystara. They had > wheellock pistols or something. Now in 1996 TSR renamed their title the > Savage Coast, and you can be sure there are guns in it. I think that this > is just crap. I think whoever made that crap up should have their @$$ > kicked! Mystara is supposed to be a medieval and ancient civilization time > area of epic fantasy! Its okay to have a renaissance, but that does not > mean that guns have to be invented on Mystara just because they were at that > time on earth. What I did is disregard it. I decided that this wheellock > thing they mention is a gnomish invention, a wheel fired crossbow, where you > turn the wheel to fire the arrows. I haven't made stats for it yet. Any > ideas? In the red steel cd some guy said "and this gnome had a loaded > wheellock pointed at my head" or something like that, so If anyone wants to > use the cd but wants to have the Mystara campaign setting the way it really > should be, this is a good solution. Another thing to do, if you're crazy or > want to use guns, is say its a novelty, very rare, poorly made, dangerous, > expensive, not very effective, short range, etc., so only rich people have > it and pc's won't know about it or want to use it, that way you can conform > and use the official crap if you want. First, here on the net people are a lot more likely to have a postive response to what you are saying if you exlcude the stream of "crap" from your postings. Second, who decides if Mystara is being played "the way it really should be?" You? If we decide to use it as written, are we "conforming?" If we decide not to play it your way are our campaigns "crap?" Yes, Mystara is supposed to be a medieval-style world, but it is also _fantasy_. Not to mention there are already two nuclear reactors on the planet, and a player traipsing through the Temple of the Frog is likely to come away with something a bit more impressive than a wheellock pistol, (If he lives, of course). For the record I do not own Red Steel, but I have had smoke powder weapons in my Mystara for some time, as well as in the other fantasy worlds I am interested (Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Spelljammer, Planescape, and Khele'Cryuun, a GURPS based world of my own creation). And I don't need the judgment handed down to me from a high horse that I am "conforming" to "crap." Thank you very much. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #71 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #72 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, 5 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 072 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 21:10:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Stickin' It to the Man... On Sun, 3 Mar 1996, David 'Azure' Leland wrote: > At 11:28 AM 3/3/96 -0800, you wrote: > > > Well, looks like we have been Spammed. This post has appeared on > >almost all of the RPG mailing lists I am on. > > Please, do not respond to this. I will do my best to see that this > >person loses their account. > > Is there anything you'd like us to do to help (i.e. should we > forward the ad to the service provider too?). Those interested in seeing this person lose their account could forward their copy to postmaster@primenet.com, with a message indicating your displeasure. A mature, professional note would mean the most to them, I am sure. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 00:10:30 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Guns on mystara? Gimme a break! On Sun, 3 Mar 1996, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > Yes, Mystara is supposed to be a medieval-style world, but it is also > _fantasy_. Not to mention there are already two nuclear reactors on the > planet, and a player traipsing through the Temple of the Frog is likely > to come away with something a bit more impressive than a wheellock > pistol, (If he lives, of course). Not to mention those characters who decide to venture into the City of the Gods south of Blackmoor... heh, heh. ;) > For the record I do not own Red Steel, but I have had smoke powder > weapons in my Mystara for some time, as well as in the other fantasy worlds I > am interested (Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Spelljammer, Planescape, and > Khele'Cryuun, a GURPS based world of my own creation). > And I don't need the judgment handed down to me from a high horse that I > am "conforming" to "crap." > Thank you very much. I am in total agreement with Leroy. While I have not as yet introduced smoke powder weapons into any of my campaigns, I am going to do it soon, likely as a by product of the Great War. I think that there are a lot of interesting aspects to be explored through the introduction of such an invention (The fighter shoots his pistol at the mage. Mage casts protection from normal missiles- bullet is deflected). It comes around to the whole Blackmoor thing again- will the introduction of science into the world result in yet another Rain of Fire, or will the inhabitants of Mystara learn from their mistakes? If you don't like the concept of smoke powder and advanced technology in your games (and I know a lot of people who don't), then feel free not to use it. No one is forcing you to use the information, it is just presented as an alternate way of doing things. Many people don't like to create their own worlds, and like the advantages offered by pre-formed campaigns like Red Steel. Even if you are one of these, which, generally, I am, there is still no one forcing you to use everything you are 'given'. I used to really like the WoTI as presented by Aaron Allston, but the more I think about it, the less I like certain aspects of it, and I have recently done a serious revamping of events depicted therein. My post War Mystara will likely not resemble the post War Mystara depicted by TSR in a lot of ways. Does this mean I can't make use of the PWA's and Joshuan's almanac? Not at all. I will adapt the events depicted therein- many of them will remain unchanged. The main point is, if you don't like something, don't use it. You do have the prerogative to change things in your campaign world if you don't like the way they have been presented. I haven't liked numerous things put out by TSR before, and have stated so, but I try to mention exactly why I don't like them, what I think would have been better, and try to keep the inflammatory remarks to a minimum. One of the things I love about this list is that, even if there are differing opinions (and there usually are- :) ), they often come up with points that I hadn't thought of, not to mention that it is nice to see what others have come up with on their Mystaras. Just a few words... :) ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 03:03:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Guns on mystara? Gimme a break! Leroy Van Camp III pontificated: > _fantasy_. Not to mention there are already two nuclear reactors on the > planet, and a player traipsing through the Temple of the Frog is likely Two? One is the Nucleus under Glantry that came from the Beagle, what is the other one? As for hi-tech stuff, the Gnomes on the Flying Island have aircrafts and Blacklore(?) Elves in HW also have a bunch of tech, but that was due to immortal magic if I remember correctly. As for firearms, I always had them in the campaign, a invention of small clan of Dwarves. More common in the Red Steel because it is easier to formulate the smoke powder there. - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:20:06 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Guns on mystara? Gimme a break! On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > On Sun, 3 Mar 1996, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > > > Yes, Mystara is supposed to be a medieval-style world, but it is also > > _fantasy_. Not to mention there are already two nuclear reactors on the > > planet, and a player traipsing through the Temple of the Frog is likely > > to come away with something a bit more impressive than a wheellock > > pistol, (If he lives, of course). > > Not to mention those characters who decide to venture into the City of > the Gods south of Blackmoor... heh, heh. ;) > > > For the record I do not own Red Steel, but I have had smoke powder > > weapons in my Mystara for some time, as well as in the other fantasy worlds I > > am interested (Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Spelljammer, Planescape, and > > Khele'Cryuun, a GURPS based world of my own creation). > > And I don't need the judgment handed down to me from a high horse that I > > am "conforming" to "crap." > > Thank you very much. > > I am in total agreement with Leroy. While I have not as yet introduced > smoke powder weapons into any of my campaigns, I am going to do it soon, > likely as a by product of the Great War. I think that there are a lot of > interesting aspects to be explored through the introduction of such an > invention (The fighter shoots his pistol at the mage. Mage casts > protection from normal missiles- bullet is deflected). It comes around > to the whole Blackmoor thing again- will the introduction of science into > the world result in yet another Rain of Fire, or will the inhabitants of > Mystara learn from their mistakes? > > If you don't like the concept of smoke powder and advanced >technology Well, I like it! I have been considering bringing smokepowder into the known world since Dragon had an article about it (By maystara alltime guru Bruce Heard himself!) Now i dont know whether my players would like this (they can be very conservative at times... But i would still like to hear how other DMs have introduced this element into the setting... Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 05:08:13 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Guns on mystara? Gimme a break! On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > Well, I like it! > I have been considering bringing smokepowder into the known world since > Dragon had an article about it (By maystara alltime guru Bruce Heard > himself!) Now i dont know whether my players would like this (they can be > very conservative at times... > But i would still like to hear how other DMs have introduced this element > into the setting... > I agree- this would be interesting to see. I have been toying with the idea since that famous article as well (not to mention the weapon mastery rules for siege weapons! Does anyone out there use those?), but I don't really like the thought of a Heldanner(! Heavens forbid! ;) inventing gunpowder. I was thinking more along the lines of a real world analogy- Ochaleans could very well have developed fireworks, etc. by now. Or the Rakasta on Matera. Of course, don't discount the Alphatians, who have had hundreds of years, not to mention brilliant minds, to work on the problem- isn't there a research facility on Bellissaria somewhere? Anyway, I haven't fully decided where it will come from on my world, so any thoughts you all have would be welcome. ------------------------------ From: Wildmule@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:22:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Prophecies jsmill@imap1.asu.edu (Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One) wrote: >>I was just looking over Joshuan's Almanac again the other night. Rereading the prophecies mentioned in the back, I got to thinking about what they could be foretelling (too bad we'll never know for sure- since this is the last almanac. :( )<< Well, you certainly got close to what I was envisioning when I wrote them! Best regards, Ann Dupuis wildmule@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 00:52:52 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nuclear Reactors (please Igor, don't read this) At 03.03 04/03/96 -0500, you wrote: >Leroy Van Camp III pontificated: >> _fantasy_. Not to mention there are already two nuclear reactors on the >> planet, and a player traipsing through the Temple of the Frog is likely > >Two? One is the Nucleus under Glantry that came from the Beagle, what is >the other one? The other one is in the Chamber of the Spheres/Temple of Rafiel/Temple Square/ City of the Stars/Shadow Elves Territories/Mystara. Am I right, Leroy ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 22:07:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nuclear Reactors On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > >Leroy Van Camp III pontificated: > >> _fantasy_. Not to mention there are already two nuclear reactors on the > >> planet, and a player traipsing through the Temple of the Frog is likely > > > >Two? One is the Nucleus under Glantry that came from the Beagle, what is > >the other one? > > The other one is in the Chamber of the Spheres/Temple of Rafiel/Temple > Square/ City of the Stars/Shadow Elves Territories/Mystara. > Am I right, Leroy ? Yup. Too bad we never got to hear what the official lowdone was on what the Shadow Elves planned to do with this once they were done. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 07:48:45 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] [mystara] Matter (was Re: Hollow Worlds and asteroids.) On Tue, 20 Feb 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > Death is againts Matters interest i think, though maybe not in a > philosofical sense. > But Matter is about enduring time, death is not. > Elves and other longlived creatures are influenceb by matter in this way. > Matter favours Law, Law is not stasis, but stability. Change to preserve > is a conservative motto. > What do you think? > > Haavard Faanes Uh oh, I think we're moving into the realm of philosophy again here ;) Anyway, this time it's fantasy philosophy, so here goes : Matter is associated with the element of Earth and is symbolized by the enduring Mountain - changeless through changes that surround it. The winds assail it, water lashes it fire flows over it, but the mountain endures and resists the changes from its true mold that these things would force. Time is associated with the element of Water and is symbolized by the changing and eternal Ocean. Fire shrinks it, air churns it and moves it, the rocks and shores of the mountin resist it, but in the end it flows through the changes imposed and the limits described by those to it's original state. Thought is associated with the element of Air, and is symbolized by the winds. It fans the fires, churns the oceans, but is turned and baulked by the mountains. Yet though the mountain stays the same, everything around it changes. Energy is associated with the element of Fire, and is symbolized by the flame. It consumes and combines air and matter to create new kinds of air and matter, and it flees the change of water, for in time the fire must die. That's how I interpret the basic philosophies of the spheres - each imortal puts his or her personal spin on it of course, but still you see the core of their thinking. Therefore, Terra of Matter WILL be adamantly opposed to any change- even seasons if she could get away with it, though in this she must yield to Time... for they simply flow around her opposition. Come to think of it, Ixion _might_ enter into a war for the sheer fiery change it brings - so in that sense one might justify it. But it still screams "Contrived Plot Device" to me, as it doesn't fit in with teh philosophy of Energy. The alphatians blew their world to buggery once before with a war over and with magic - one would think that would be a clue-by-four to their civilization's metaphorical heads ? ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 08:02:46 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Guns on mystara? Gimme a break! On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > Not to mention those characters who decide to venture into the City of > the Gods south of Blackmoor... heh, heh. ;) > Oooh, you had to go and remind me, did you ? My players did - and convinced a crewmember to spend a week training them in such things as switching powerpacks, judging ranges, and.... Still, they didn't use them as much, since most present-day mystarans think Blackmoor was the Realm of Evil. But the one time they did - Let's just say that The Master's Legion of Doom was mowed down in the field by blackmoorian weapons. Their infantry had a near-100% casualty rate. Never cluster up when the enemy has grenade launchers ;) ------------------------------ From: "GA06.GINGRICH" Date: 05 Mar 1996 09:00:09 EST Subject: [Mystara] WELCOME TO THE CONSTITUENT ELECTRONIC MAIL SERVICE Thank you for contacting me through the House of Representatives' Constituent Electronic Mail System (CEMS). I am pleased to be a part of this effort to offer citizens a quick and efficient way to communicate with their representatives in Congress. As the ability of Congress to communicate and share information over the Internet is expanded, I expect that program enhancements will be announced and additional members will choose to participate. Your patience during these early stages of the CEMS is greatly appreciated. You can learn more about the CEMS through the Internet address CONGRESS@HR.HOUSE.GOV. If you live in my Congressional District, please be assured that any message you send me over the Internet will be brought to my attention. Be sure to include your mailing address in your Internet message. Thank you again for your interest. Sincerely, NEWT GINGRICH MEMBER OF CONGRESS ------------------------------ From: "GA06.GINGRICH" Date: 05 Mar 1996 08:54:08 EST Subject: [Mystara] WELCOME TO THE CONSTITUENT ELECTRONIC MAIL SERVICE Thank you for contacting me through the House of Representatives' Constituent Electronic Mail System (CEMS). I am pleased to be a part of this effort to offer citizens a quick and efficient way to communicate with their representatives in Congress. As the ability of Congress to communicate and share information over the Internet is expanded, I expect that program enhancements will be announced and additional members will choose to participate. Your patience during these early stages of the CEMS is greatly appreciated. You can learn more about the CEMS through the Internet address CONGRESS@HR.HOUSE.GOV. If you live in my Congressional District, please be assured that any message you send me over the Internet will be brought to my attention. Be sure to include your mailing address in your Internet message. Thank you again for your interest. Sincerely, NEWT GINGRICH MEMBER OF CONGRESS ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 17:11:13 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mystara] economics according to the economics rules in dragon 187, a family of five villagers, can generate 5 sp a month worth of taxes.. If this is 5% tax (Darokinian), then it means that this familiy generate a 100 sp a month. that is 1200 sps a yearor 120 gps a year As a weeks iron rations cost 15 gps for one week, how can anyone survive? Is something wrong here? or is it just me who is lousy with maths Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 08:36:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] economics On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > according to the economics rules in dragon 187, a family of five > villagers, can generate 5 sp a month worth of taxes.. > If this is 5% tax (Darokinian), then it means that this familiy generate > a 100 sp a month. that is 1200 sps a yearor 120 gps a year > As a weeks iron rations cost 15 gps for one week, how can anyone survive? This isn't really an answer to your question, but I think the price of iron rations is an artifact of the old dungeon-focus days, when they wanted something to keep characters from having too much money. Iron ratons is rarely more than jerky and various forms of hard bread. Is this really going to be worth 15 gp? I wouldn't charge more than 5 gp for a week's rations. I am sure they made this stuff up in bulk. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Cthulhu, eh? I'll try and backstab him" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Robert Kaelin Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:16:05 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] A Familiar Request Hello, I have a general call for help from the list, and figured maybe some interesting discussion might occur. I'm starting a new campaign in Glantri and I'm looking for some areas of life in a mageocracy that haven't been beaten to death everywhere else. I came up with a relatively minor aspect of life that I've never seen mentioned in any Mystara supplement ever, familars. Now, I know the Find Familiar spell isn't part of the OD&D rules, and some people have just stopped reading this because of it, but hear me out. Familiars can be so useful, especially to low-level mages (and with the familar enhancer spells I dug up in an old Dragon even to high level mages) that I think someone in all the Principalities would have come up with the idea by now. Think about it. "Hey Joslyn, you think your Weasel familiar can steal the test answers to Master Ravenwing's class on spell components again?" "Why bother hiring 5 brainless horse-riders to scout ahead of the caravan? My pet hawk can warn us long before we hit anything dangerous." (The same goes true for crows, and to some extent owls who can be a very good night watchbird.) Young mages with cat familiars could train them keep watch over their spellbooks while they're away during the day. (or any familiar really). Mages, who are usually more isolated then other people, have a ready made friend/pet, and, as their intelligence grows through the use of familar enhancer spells, lieutenants, scouts and spies. or even "Have you seen the new guy? He's icky, he has a toad. Don't go near him or you'll get warts." (A familiar could affect the mages personality in a lot of ways.) OK, now I have all the rules worked out. I've gotten around the 1000 gp cost issue by allowing mages to buy the required spices and insense in very small quantities. This allows them to "save up" the material components slowly (even over years), instead of needing 1000gp all at once. (This translates to any NPC mage over 3rd level or who's been 1st or higher for 5+ years to possibly have a familiar.) I've made Find familiar and the familiar enhancer spells standard spells taught at the college of magic, and the school of magecraft in Karamekos(sic?). I also allow any mage who casts the spell a 5% chance per level to get a "special" familiar, based on alignement and personality, (i.e. imps, quasits, pseudo dragons etc.) I also rule that find familiar spell enhances the lifespan of the animal, but only by 4-5 times. So mages with crumby familiars, or who want special ones, can eventually get another chance without having to "off" their familiar. Familiars who die of natural causes don't harm the mage. (maybe just a mandatory depression period.) What I'm missing is the "Mystara slant". There's something missing, maybe it's the special's I'm using (maybe I should use gremlins instead of imps?) Maybe it's just because there are no mages in Mystara I can find with one. Does anyone out there, who's resources are greater then mine, know of any mage detailed in Mystara that has a familiar? An example would help out. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve the spell, or to make it "more Mystaran"? What "special" familiars would be more likely in Mystara? Have any of you made any interesting familiars that might be a good example? Any ideas on how to tailor familiars to a Mystara campaign at all would be appreciated. Thank you for your support, - -Bob - ---------------------------------------------------------- Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence, Inc. E-mail: Kaelin@natural.com 725 Concord Ave. Phone: (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge, Ma. 02138 WWW: http://www.natural.com USA - ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "GA06.GINGRICH" Date: 05 Mar 1996 08:55:08 EST Subject: [Mystara] WELCOME TO THE CONSTITUENT ELECTRONIC MAIL SERVICE Thank you for contacting me through the House of Representatives' Constituent Electronic Mail System (CEMS). I am pleased to be a part of this effort to offer citizens a quick and efficient way to communicate with their representatives in Congress. As the ability of Congress to communicate and share information over the Internet is expanded, I expect that program enhancements will be announced and additional members will choose to participate. Your patience during these early stages of the CEMS is greatly appreciated. You can learn more about the CEMS through the Internet address CONGRESS@HR.HOUSE.GOV. If you live in my Congressional District, please be assured that any message you send me over the Internet will be brought to my attention. Be sure to include your mailing address in your Internet message. Thank you again for your interest. Sincerely, NEWT GINGRICH MEMBER OF CONGRESS ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #72 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #73 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, 5 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 073 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:13:38 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] A Familiar Request The original Glantri gazetter has Familiar summoning as a special skill you can accuire outside of the normal scope of spells by 'taking classes' at the Great school of magic. It's (IIRC) functionally similar to the spell, with one major difference - You choose what to summon. No messing about and getting stuck with a toad when you wanted a sparrowhawk... The catch is simply - you have to have some of the blood or flesh of the creature you want to summon/sorta create for a familiar. I can't remeber the price now, but you also had to spend a fortune on summoning incences and so on, and you could only summon up to a certain numer of HD of critter - I think that was dependent on your level. With this you could always have the mages summon a familiar that suited their personalities... But making this a part of the standard spell list would be a really bad idea for ost campaigns - it's one of the secret crafts of the Great School of magic, tied to the radiance after a fashion (I presume, since Alphatia doesn't know about this), and it's one of the secrets that the Empire of Alphatia would sell the Isle of Dawn to Thyatis for - if they could get an option on some of the secret societies along with it ;) In my campaign there's TWO Glantrian Runelords who're going to be in an awkward position soon - one PC, one NPC. They've sworn allegiance to King Ericall, and by extension the Empress of Alphatia. What will the Empress do when she discovers that there's two of'em living in Norwold, and both re technically her liegemen ? So far they've been keeping their powers secret out of a vague sense of self-preservation. Once they start using what they know, all sorts of interesting dilemmas might arise as their conflicting oaths and loyalties start to bring pressure on them... :) ------------------------------ From: "GA06.GINGRICH" Date: 05 Mar 1996 08:54:08 EST Subject: [Mystara] WELCOME TO THE CONSTITUENT ELECTRONIC MAIL SERVICE Thank you for contacting me through the House of Representatives' Constituent Electronic Mail System (CEMS). I am pleased to be a part of this effort to offer citizens a quick and efficient way to communicate with their representatives in Congress. As the ability of Congress to communicate and share information over the Internet is expanded, I expect that program enhancements will be announced and additional members will choose to participate. Your patience during these early stages of the CEMS is greatly appreciated. You can learn more about the CEMS through the Internet address CONGRESS@HR.HOUSE.GOV. If you live in my Congressional District, please be assured that any message you send me over the Internet will be brought to my attention. Be sure to include your mailing address in your Internet message. Thank you again for your interest. Sincerely, NEWT GINGRICH MEMBER OF CONGRESS ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:35:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] A Familiar Request At 12:16 PM 3/5/96 -0500, you wrote: >Now, I know the Find Familiar spell isn't part of the OD&D rules, and some >people have just stopped reading this because of it, but hear me out. >Familiars can be so useful, especially to low-level mages (and with the >familar enhancer spells I dug up in an old Dragon even to high level mages) >that I think someone in all the Principalities would have come up with the >idea by now. In what I think is a cooler way to go about it, GAZ3 Principalities of Glantri allows for familiars through a skill rather than spell, and gives rules for them. It's called "Conjure Companion" and is on page 59 along with other mage skills like agility training, mandragora use, meditation, quick casting, and spell combination. You may want to check it out, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ David "Azure" Leland ~~~ e-mail: azure@cs.oberlin.edu ~~ ~~ Oberlin College ~~~ snail-mail: OCMR 1375 / Oberlin, OH 44074 ~~ ~~ **Creative Writing ~~~ phone/fax: (216) 775-5582 ~~ ~~ **Cognitive Science ~~~ WWW: http://www.oberlin.edu/~dleland ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: Robert Kaelin Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:52:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] A Familiar Request > The original Glantri gazetter has Familiar summoning as a special skill >you can accuire outside of the normal scope of spells by 'taking classes' >at the Great school of magic. It's (IIRC) functionally similar to the >spell, with one major difference - Yes, I stand corrected. I do recall that skill. I overlooked it for 3 reasons. 1) The rules are them are a little vauge (IIRC). 2) They're just not the same thing. (I think they're even called Companions) 3) It's not in the Glantri Boxed set (not that that means anything but I don't look at the gazateer as often anymore since I've gotten it because the boxed set has all the updated stats for the current year.) > You choose what to summon. >No messing about and getting stuck with a toad when you wanted a >sparrowhawk... > With this you could always have the mages summon a familiar that suited >their personalities... Yes, but this is a role-playing folly. I prefer to choose the familar (or at least have a say over a randomly roled one). There are plenty of people that think they are hawks who are really toads. Familiars are completely independant NPC's (at least they will be in my campaign) with a personality all their own, familiars pick mages as much as mages pick familiars. I won't give toads to brave, out-going free spirits, but I won't give hawks to quiet, introverted, morally troubled young mages either, even if they want one. Also, that's why I left in familars eventual natural death. A toad, even one living 4-5 times longer then average, still won't be annoying to a player forever (what's a toad live on average anyway?). Maybe next time he'll get a hawk. > But making this a part of the standard spell list would be a really bad >idea for ost campaigns - it's one of the secret crafts of the Great >School of magic, tied to the radiance after a fashion (I presume, since >Alphatia doesn't know about this), and it's one of the secrets that the >Empire of Alphatia would sell the Isle of Dawn to Thyatis for - if they >could get an option on some of the secret societies along with it ;) I always liked the "these are certain skills you can only learn in the school of magic at Glantri". But... (there's always a but) I don't think this should be one of them. The feel I'm going for is that every mage (well most of them) has a familiar. I always want the players who deal with a mage to have to worry about his familiar as well. I just think the skill has too many uses, is too desirable for low level mages, and helps mages too much (by learning skills that will help deal with serivtor creatures and apprentices that the mage might encounter later on) to restrict to a select group. (Maybe that's just me.) I think there's a lot to be learned from having a familiar, and there's a lot to add to the campaign (especially the low level, mage centered campaign, I'm planning.) > In my campaign there's TWO Glantrian Runelords who're going to be in an >awkward position soon - one PC, one NPC. They've sworn allegiance to King >Ericall, and by extension the Empress of Alphatia. What will the Empress >do when she discovers that there's two of'em living in Norwold, and both >re technically her liegemen ? So far they've been keeping their powers >secret out of a vague sense of self-preservation. Once they start using >what they know, all sorts of interesting dilemmas might arise as their >conflicting oaths and loyalties start to bring pressure on them... :) I like the idea. I think familiars (or companions or whatever) just aren't on the same par as the secret guilds though. (Who's highest powers are on equal to or greater then 9th level spells.) If the 1000 36th level mages who run about in Alphatia can't manage to summon a familiar, then their continent deserved to sink beneath the seas. :-) But thanks to the two people (so far) who've reminded me of what I had missed. I'll go back and look at all that again! OK, has anyone actually used the Call Companion skill, or know of an NPC listed somewhere that has? (I always thought is was wierd they give out all those neat skills, but no NPC in the descriptions has taken advantage of any of them.) - -Bob - ---------------------------------------------------------- Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence, Inc. E-mail: Kaelin@natural.com 725 Concord Ave. Phone: (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge, Ma. 02138 WWW: http://www.natural.com USA - ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 16:56:54 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Re: Request for action against Net-abuse by a patron I just thought you all might like to know the response I got from primenet.com in response to my complaint about that spammer who distributed an off-topic advertisement to the list... >Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:47:25 -0700 (MST) >From: "James J. Lippard" >To: "David 'Azure' Leland" >Subject: Re: Request for action against Net-abuse by a patron > >The user in question has been informed that any future such mailings will >result in account termination and a bill for the cost of labor to respond >to complaints. See http://www.primenet.com/info/aup.html to see our user >agreement and acceptable use policy. > >Jim Lippard webmaster@primenet.com >Web Administrator, Primenet http://www.primenet.com/ >Phoenix, Arizona http://com.primenet.com/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ David "Azure" Leland ~~~ e-mail: azure@cs.oberlin.edu ~~ ~~ Oberlin College ~~~ snail-mail: OCMR 1375 / Oberlin, OH 44074 ~~ ~~ **Creative Writing ~~~ phone/fax: (216) 775-5582 ~~ ~~ **Cognitive Science ~~~ WWW: http://www.oberlin.edu/~dleland ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: TSRInc@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 17:41:21 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Update: AD&D CD-ROM features [Sorry to those on several mailing lists; I always hate it when people cross-post, but many have asked for this info, so....] This is an update of some of the features of the upcoming AD&D CD-ROM. * the core AD&D game rules are included in this single product: The ROM disk contains the complete text of the Player's Handbook, the DUNGEON MASTER Guide, the Tome of Magic, the MONSTROUS MANUAL tome, and the Arms and Equipment accessory. All of these books are presented in a rich-text format that can be accessed and manipulated through the software's own word processing program or through many popular programs such as Word and WordPerfect. * A Village Tour provides the user with an entertaining introduction to both the ROM program and the AD&D game. When initiated, it leads the user on a 3-D animated adventure in a medieval town, introducing numerous characters in a fantasy setting. * A character generator allows the user to create AD&D characters according to any of the parameters established in the Player's Handbook, but it also allows the user to custom generate characters according to specific needs and desires, then edit a character's attributes and possessions while the program automatically adjusts all game-contingent stats. This program also allows the Dungeon Master to quickly generate nonplayer characters appropriate to any scenario and player level. * A map maker allows the user to create maps on three separate scales, calling upon a wide selection of icons and a built-in paint program. A square or hexagonal grid may be laid over maps at the user's discretion. * An encounter generator allows the Dungeon Master to designate the frequency and level of wandering monsters and nonplayer characters, after which the program creates detailed and appropriate encounters and places them on a map (previously generated by the user). * A treasure generator allows the Dungeon Master to determine what player characters find both in lairs and on the persons of defeated adversaries, exactly as they would using the tables in the DUNGEON MASTER Guide, but the ROM program also allows the DM to invent custom items and insert them into the random treasure generator. * Using the ROM program, the user can create a personal data base of monsters and items. If desired, the user may create original creatures and items, and the program assists in conforming the creation to standard AD&D game rules. * As a bonus, a die-rolling program is included, allowing the user to specify die quantities and types, then "roll" them for a result. - -- Sean Reynolds, TSR Online Coordinator TSRinc@aol.com | AOL: keyword TSR | http://users.aol.com/tsrinc/ ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 17:08:56 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] economics On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > according to the economics rules in dragon 187, a family of five > villagers, can generate 5 sp a month worth of taxes.. > If this is 5% tax (Darokinian), then it means that this familiy generate > a 100 sp a month. that is 1200 sps a yearor 120 gps a year > As a weeks iron rations cost 15 gps for one week, how can anyone survive? > > Is something wrong here? > or is it just me who is lousy with maths > If I recall correctly, the economics system introduced by Bruce Heard in the aforementioned Dragon articles was presented as an alternative to the rules given in the Cyclopedia, in order to present a more "real-world" feel to economics. It uses the silver based system, rather than gold based, in order to better reflect historical Feudal era economics. As such, the price listings in the Cyclopedia are going to be somewhat out of touch with the economics rules given. Two alternatives: a) Use the economics rules given in the Cyclopedia (in the 'Dominions' section) in order to simulate your economy. Even these are going to require that the rulers go out and adventure periodically (I believe that was one of the rationales behind them- so that PC's wouldn't be sitting on their duffs all day and doing administrative stuff.) The other thing you could do is b) change the price listings in the Cyclopedia to better reflect the new rules. This could take a lot of work, but my suggestion would be to assume that the silver piece is the standard currency- ie, the most commonly exchanged piece of money- and change any mention of gp prices to sp prices. For those of you who have read Gygax's Gord the Rogue series- (IMO, one of the best series of novels put out by TSR, at least the first two)- there is a, IMO, very well developed and reasonable system of currency exchange in the last few pages of the first book (Unfortunately, I can't recall the name of it offhand- ack!) ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 17:17:47 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] A Familiar Request On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Robert Kaelin wrote: > What I'm missing is the "Mystara slant". There's something missing, maybe > it's the special's I'm using (maybe I should use gremlins instead of imps?) > Maybe it's just because there are no mages in Mystara I can find with one. > Does anyone out there, who's resources are greater then mine, know of any > mage detailed in Mystara that has a familiar? An example would help out. > Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve the spell, or to make it > "more Mystaran"? What "special" familiars would be more likely in Mystara? > Have any of you made any interesting familiars that might be a good example? > > Any ideas on how to tailor familiars to a Mystara campaign at all would be > appreciated. > There are familiar like creatures for Mystara that have appeared in various products. Namely, the Homunculi and the Huptzeen (from the original Creature Catalog). The type of homunculus depends on the characters alignment- they are mentioned as being Immortal's avatars, but I just rule that they are something else- and the Huptzeen, while not strictly familiars as such, are intelligent spell casting artifacts. There are also the Tabi (Creature catalog and PC2- Top Ballista), which can be gained as familiars for Nagpa, along with Homunculi. I don't see why either of these couldn't be familiars for PC's of other races, either. Some of the humanoid NPC's in GAZ10 are listed as having familiars. I think the Red Orc chief, Hool(?) has a homunculus familiar, and the bugbear chief has a huptzeen that secretly works for Jaggar von Drachenfels. Those are the only things I can think of offhand. ------------------------------ From: andmissinato@email.telpress.it (Missinato Andrea) Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 00:25:58 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Mystara Immortals & Planescape How do you think on Mystara Immortals and Planecape? Have you any ideas on where I can put them on the planes? Are they similar to Planescape Powers? Thanks Andrea ------------------------------ From: "GA06.GINGRICH" Date: 05 Mar 1996 08:47:08 EST Subject: [Mystara] WELCOME TO THE CONSTITUENT ELECTRONIC MAIL SERVICE Thank you for contacting me through the House of Representatives' Constituent Electronic Mail System (CEMS). I am pleased to be a part of this effort to offer citizens a quick and efficient way to communicate with their representatives in Congress. As the ability of Congress to communicate and share information over the Internet is expanded, I expect that program enhancements will be announced and additional members will choose to participate. Your patience during these early stages of the CEMS is greatly appreciated. You can learn more about the CEMS through the Internet address CONGRESS@HR.HOUSE.GOV. If you live in my Congressional District, please be assured that any message you send me over the Internet will be brought to my attention. Be sure to include your mailing address in your Internet message. Thank you again for your interest. Sincerely, NEWT GINGRICH MEMBER OF CONGRESS ------------------------------ From: Jason Zavoda Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 20:54:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] WELCOME TO THE CONSTITUENT ELECTRONIC MAIL SERVICE Normally I would say that we have been 'spammed' but this time I would have to say that we have been 'GINGRICHed' which is a bit worse actually. Why does Primerica Rep. come to mind when I think of who is behind this. Jason Zavoda On 5 Mar 1996, GA06.GINGRICH wrote: > Thank you for contacting me through the House of Representatives' >/blah,blah,spam etc. snipped/ > NEWT GINGRICH > MEMBER OF CONGRESS > ------------------------------ From: "GA06.GINGRICH" Date: 05 Mar 1996 08:47:08 EST Subject: [Mystara] WELCOME TO THE CONSTITUENT ELECTRONIC MAIL SERVICE Thank you for contacting me through the House of Representatives' Constituent Electronic Mail System (CEMS). I am pleased to be a part of this effort to offer citizens a quick and efficient way to communicate with their representatives in Congress. As the ability of Congress to communicate and share information over the Internet is expanded, I expect that program enhancements will be announced and additional members will choose to participate. Your patience during these early stages of the CEMS is greatly appreciated. You can learn more about the CEMS through the Internet address CONGRESS@HR.HOUSE.GOV. If you live in my Congressional District, please be assured that any message you send me over the Internet will be brought to my attention. Be sure to include your mailing address in your Internet message. Thank you again for your interest. Sincerely, NEWT GINGRICH MEMBER OF CONGRESS ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:24:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] A Familiar Request > I'm starting a new campaign in Glantri and I'm looking for some areas of > life in a mageocracy that haven't been beaten to death everywhere else. I Try the AC11, Inventions something book. Good desciptions of magic use in everyday life(washing machines, cradles, bowling balls, etc) > Now, I know the Find Familiar spell isn't part of the OD&D rules, and some > people have just stopped reading this because of it, but hear me out. I was about to point this out, but I guess you thunk of it. > Familiars can be so useful, especially to low-level mages (and with the > familar enhancer spells I dug up in an old Dragon even to high level mages) > that I think someone in all the Principalities would have come up with the > idea by now. Probably-I'd sure like to hear ideas even tho I am not a fan of mages. Priests rule, man! And dwarves. And halflings. And humanoids. And sea giant shamans :> > "Hey Joslyn, you think your Weasel familiar can steal the test answers to > Master Ravenwing's class on spell components again?" Hee hee All's fair in love and big game hunting --- Chumsly ------------------------------ From: "GA06.GINGRICH" Date: 05 Mar 1996 08:49:08 EST Subject: [Mystara] WELCOME TO THE CONSTITUENT ELECTRONIC MAIL SERVICE Thank you for contacting me through the House of Representatives' Constituent Electronic Mail System (CEMS). I am pleased to be a part of this effort to offer citizens a quick and efficient way to communicate with their representatives in Congress. As the ability of Congress to communicate and share information over the Internet is expanded, I expect that program enhancements will be announced and additional members will choose to participate. Your patience during these early stages of the CEMS is greatly appreciated. You can learn more about the CEMS through the Internet address CONGRESS@HR.HOUSE.GOV. If you live in my Congressional District, please be assured that any message you send me over the Internet will be brought to my attention. Be sure to include your mailing address in your Internet message. Thank you again for your interest. Sincerely, NEWT GINGRICH MEMBER OF CONGRESS ------------------------------ From: "GA06.GINGRICH" Date: 05 Mar 1996 08:48:08 EST Subject: [Mystara] WELCOME TO THE CONSTITUENT ELECTRONIC MAIL SERVICE Thank you for contacting me through the House of Representatives' Constituent Electronic Mail System (CEMS). I am pleased to be a part of this effort to offer citizens a quick and efficient way to communicate with their representatives in Congress. As the ability of Congress to communicate and share information over the Internet is expanded, I expect that program enhancements will be announced and additional members will choose to participate. Your patience during these early stages of the CEMS is greatly appreciated. You can learn more about the CEMS through the Internet address CONGRESS@HR.HOUSE.GOV. If you live in my Congressional District, please be assured that any message you send me over the Internet will be brought to my attention. Be sure to include your mailing address in your Internet message. Thank you again for your interest. Sincerely, NEWT GINGRICH MEMBER OF CONGRESS ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 00:28:12 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Anything we can do about the ricochet spammer? Subject says it all, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ David "Azure" Leland ~~~ e-mail: azure@cs.oberlin.edu ~~ ~~ Oberlin College ~~~ snail-mail: OCMR 1375 / Oberlin, OH 44074 ~~ ~~ **Creative Writing ~~~ phone/fax: (216) 775-5582 ~~ ~~ **Cognitive Science ~~~ WWW: http://www.oberlin.edu/~dleland ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #73 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #74 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 6 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 074 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Melik Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 21:57 PST Subject: [Mystara] Wrath of The Immortals revamp, AD&D equivalents I read about Cthuludrew revamping WoTI. I too, found things in it that I felt needed to be improved, although that was one of my very favorite boxed sets. Lets discuss it if you want to. First, I thought that pc's should be able to become an immortal in the sphere of entropy if they really wanted to. Even if pc's don't try to achieve immortality in it (which they often wouldn't), I felt that we need the details about it for npc's at least. The title I thought up for it was Dark Lord. The quest, of course, to retrieve an artifact of entropy through negative things such as violence, deception, trickery, betrayal, etc.. I thought the textimony would be to get a second-in-command and succesor that must rise 12 levels in his service. The trial I thought up would be to create something entropic, like Hel creating those "night creatures" or whatever, or maybe some nasty magic item. The task could be to spread entropy in some way, like that devilfish who slew som many whatever-they-weres, or to have a war and take over an area with orc hordes or something. As you can see, I haven't written it down yet. I thought about it a long time ago, and now was reminded by Cthuludrew, so what do you other people think? I'll probably remember some more stuff, or be reminded by people on the list. Well, artifacts was another thing. I didn't like the numbers they had for the different categories there. This is my original table (and now I think I had better improve it too): I changed the attack, info., transform, defense categories to just minor, lesser, greater, major powers, depending on the Power Point cost. In adverse category depends on the power/severity of the adverse affect. I suppose below greater is a penalty and a bove lesser is a handicap, generally. Oh yeah, The Power Points are high because I was in the process of revamping that system too, to make them more precise, and letting immortals pay a tp point for each spell level of a spell they cast under 10th. This is what I wrote down for powers: minor 25 PP up to 3rd lev. spells lesser 100 PP " 6th " greater 500 PP " 9th " major 1000 PP " 12th " (high level ones could be immortal spells) note - if anyone incorporated the Divine Magic Netbook into WoTI, I would be interested in discussing this. minor lesser greater major max power points 2400 4800 9600 19200 max powers 10 20 40 80 max power types minor 4 8 16 32 lesser 3 6 12 16 greater 2 4 8 12 major 1 2 4 8 recharge rate not done yet adverse affects handicaps/penalties 1 minor per 4 minor powers 1 lesser per 4 lesser powers 1 greater per 16 greater powers 1 major per artifact Okay, I also decided that the immortal xp table and level info should be improved. Here's what I did so far. Their xp goes up about 1000 PP a level. HD starts at mortal HD, then goes to 50(unless their mortal HD is higher), and then 1 more a level after it reaches their mortal HD. The same goes for HP, but it starts at 100, goes up 100/lev. to 10th, then 1000/level. antimagic also goes like this, but starts at at least 50, and + 1% per level. THe same goes for AC, at least 0, then improves -1/level. Attacks must be at least 5, thengoes up 1 per title, and attack damage starts at 5d6 and goes up 1d6 a title also. I also think that each power should cost 1 slot, and they can get the abilities of being or class, and the form of any being also, as a power, not just dragon, Mystic, or Thief. Of course, they can't get abilities or forms of creatures more powerful than immortals, like Draedens and Megaliths, or Vortex creatures if they are exeptionally powerful. Recently I got Deities and Demigods, and now I think that immortals should be able to have classes too, like mortals, and gods from this book, a.k.a. Legends and Lore in a later incarnation. I think that immortals should have more powers like in here too. If anyone has done this, or wants to, I'd like to discuss it. My improvements that I made to WoTI are being revised and tested, and I would like it if people tested and disagreed with it, in order to improve it even more. I did this a while back and see that it needs some vast improvements too. Oh, a neat thing I found out a while ago is that the demons/fiends in the D&D immortal products are quite similar to the demons of type I to VI and the succubus in the 1st ed Monster Manual, but I'm not sure what they are in 2nd ed. So, you can find out more about them from there if you want to, and maybe use some variations to suprise players. I know that some of you know this already, but some people probably don't. I thought it was amazing when I found out, and when I saw the picture of the glabrezu in the MM I thought I had seen it before somewhere, and realized it was the equivalent of the howling demon/fiend. ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 21:56 PST Subject: [Mystara] my own Re:Guns on..., and more I apologize to those of you who were offended by my posting about guns in Mystara. When I looked at my posting after the replies, I definitely saw what you meant. I see that some of you thought I think I'm who says how people are supposed to play on Mystara. Of course, everyone that DM's or plays on Mystara decides that for themselves, so their campaign will be fun for them. That's the one of the main points of the game. I was mad at TSR so what I really meant was buried in "streams of crap". I'm really sorry about it. I could have caused some people to dislike Red Steel because of my dislike of a tiny part of it, when, in fact, it is a good prduct. In this posting I will restate it in a better way and tell about the rest of Red Steel, which I have and enjoy. Here are my additional thoughts on it. There'e some more stuff at the bottom in case you have it already and don't want to read this. I only talked about the one paragraph or so about wheellock pistols, which I disliked and do not use. Part of what I meant was that I had the idea to say the wheellock pistols were wheel-fired crossbows if you don't like guns on Mystara too and wanted to use the tale about legacies in an adventure in an easier way. Other than that, I actually thought it was one of the best TSR products made that year! I should have told about the whole of it, so now I am. I suggest it to those of you who have it not. It tells about the area of the Savage Coast, of course with the info. on the kingdoms and cultures, etc.. It was very interesting because it tells about the Red Curse, which was mentioned in Champions of Mystara (maybe the original Savage Coast module first, but I know not as I haven't seen it). Tis a product of many things like ancient Nithians, immortals, dragons, magic, and maybe even Blackmoor, etc., if I remember correctly. These things built up and combined to make a unique, interesting area. The Red Curse gives some people these powers called legacies, which are similar to magic in ways, but you don't get as much of it, and anyone can have it. It tells about having certain races as pc's like aranea, "goblinoids" (certain humanoids which are native to the Savage Coast, I believe), rakastas, lupins, and others. I think this is excellent because now it's easier to have them as pc's without having to go through the hassle of making it up yourself if you don't want to. There are a bunch of neat substances like and cinnabryl, which counters the adverse affects of legacies for a while (and they are bad!), which turns into red steel, a light metal. It's really cool! I can't remember much stuff about it beyond that though, but it details well the mystery of the area that was told about previuosly. I'm looking forward to the Savage Coast series this year, and I hope TSR continues making good Mystara stuff. :) Did anyone get those 2 additional Red Steel sets? I haven't got them yet are they good? Also, what about the 2nd ed Glantri stuff too? Oh yeah, supposedly there's some way to stop the Red Curse. That would be interesting if it was stopped and the Curse and cultures of the area influenced by it were moved to the Hollow World, wouldn't it. Then if outer-world pc's went in to the Hollow World, they might encouter it again. Oh, by the way, my local game shop has AC1 Shady Dragon Inn, HWR3 Milenian Empire, X6 Quamire, and the Basic (without box or B2), Expert (with X1), and Companion's rules. I already have these, so if anyone else wants them, drop me a line, and I'll get them for you as long as you pay for postage too. I'm certainly not going to do some kind of auction (tis first come, first served) on it, because I don't want any profit on it, or the hassle of running an auction, either!;) Also, I doubt that Mr. Van Camp would approve of auctions here. So I'm posting this once, and whoever wants it email me at darwin@gp.magick.net because we don't want to clutter up the list with trade. ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 21:57 PST Subject: [Mystara] another Rain of Fire? Cthuludrew wrote: >It comes around to the whole Blackmoor thing again- will the introduction of science >into the world result in yet another Rain of Fire, or will the inhabitants of >Mystara learn from their mistakes? (I must add, will the inhabitants of earth before something like that happens?) That is very interesting. Wow! I hadn't thought of that before. I'm not going to have guns on Mystara for centuries in my campaign, but that would make some very interesting roleplaying. You could play on Mystara in the future in a genre after medieval time, for example, and you could still be on Mystara and have a great thing to use for a campaign. ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 21:57 PST Subject: [Mystara] do you know about Bruce Heard? Haavard Roenne mentioned a Mystara guru named Bruce Heard. Thanks! I haven't heard of him before, because I can't afford the subscription to Dragon. Could anyone that knows tell me about him, like the issues of Dragon that have his articles? Well, if anyone knows any issues of Dragon or Dungeon that have Mystara stuff, that would be nice to know. I can't believe it! I've played D&D for a long time and I've heard of Ed Greenwood and I hardly know anything about the Realms, but I haven't even heard of the Mystara guru until now, and Mystara is my favorite world that I use often. That's strange. Oh, well, I guess it's fate or something. ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 21:58 PST Subject: [Mystara] phanaton pc's and others I went through my rules cyclopedia and creature catalog marking all the creatures that I thought should be able to be pc's, but never detailed them all like the phanaton pc's posting. I think that Daniel Boese did a great job on setting phanatons up for a pc race. Im inspired! Maybe people should start posting some more stuff about pc races. I might do that in a while. Examples of ones I thought of are actaeon, pegataurs, centaurs, humanoids, cay-men, nosferatu, faeries, pachydermions, etc. I think that generally, nonhuman races work if they are not of too low intelligence and aren't too powerful. Of course, if they are too powerful, you can use the guidelines in the PC series about making them have negative xp so they aren't 10 times more powerful than the party. I tried this a few times and it works. Once I even let a player have a dragon character using those guidelines and it worked out just great. :) ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 21:57 PST Subject: [Mystara] siege and normal weapon mastery Cthuludrew talked about siege weapon mastery, which I have never heard of. It sounds very interesting. Where is that mentioned? Is it good? I don't like the D&D weapon mastery system anymore, but I think the idea of weapon mastery is great. I revised so that the special effects are determined by the manner the weapon is used in (like thrusting), the effect(like cutting), and the level of mastery. In it, you start out by being able to do 1 or 2 special effects maybe, on high rolls, and then you get more effects at higher levels, and become more adept at them. Instead of +2,4,6,8, I changed it to +1 to hit & dam/level. If a weapon is used in more than 1 way, it takes more slots to learn. If anyone wants more details, I'd be happy to send 'em in, and maybe we could talk about it, and improve it. ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 21:57 PST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) At 11:56 AM 2/29/96 +0100, you wrote: >On Thu, 15 Feb 1996 JOEGERBER@delphi.com wrote: > >> My very IMHO on Benekander (I don't really know whether or not to place him in >> the above list, just as I'm not sure whether his [Immortal] age should be 9 >> yeras or c 6000 years) and Rad's origins is an extension of what is given in >> Wrath of the Immortals. I view the *entire* Mystaran "known" multiverse as a >> series of 3-spaces inside of a single 4-space. I view Old Averoigne, Benekder'shome world, the AD&D multiverse, etc. as seperate and distinct 4-spaces within >> a single 5-space; each 4-space has its own corresponding set of 3-spaces. >> This does raise some interesting questions for all you Immortal-level PC's out >> there; such as how did certain races develop "cross-dimensional", and where did >> the inspiritaition for for common created races come from? >> >I dont understand your concept of Dimesnion. Using the Old >Immortals Set definition of dimensions, I cannot see how a several >3-spaces can be contained in a 4-space etc.. >Also, wouldnt this mean no magic, since magic depends on the fifth Dimension. > >> Wow--my de-lurk and I'm already talking Metaphysics that only someone with a >> 18+ Int can understand... >Perhaps thats my problem..... >> >Haavard Faanes > > Its been a while since I looked at that very, very interesting area in the Immortals set about planar physics and such. Maybe some people don't have this set, too. So what you mean without the planar physics the following, correct? A dimension is a group of planes that often has inner and outer planes, like prime, ethereal, astral, elemental, immortal planes, and where dead people go. It is similar to some dimensions, and different than others. For example, the A D&D manual of the planes compared to the D&D planes. They both have the inner planes similar, except the quasi and para elemental planes aren't mentioned, but the D&D planes have not the places such as Elysium, Tarterus, the Abyss, Olympus, etc.. This is why I use the definition in this way. The D&D and AD&D planes the way they are written could be two dimensions that are parallel for example. The dimension of myth has planes in it like the multiverse maybe, but it is different in that the monsters of seperate mythos are in their own areas. I suppose their are groups of dimensions that are similar, maybe the Vortex dimension sort of thing is what ties one together. In my campaign, I say that a group of dimensions like this is a reality, I couldn't find any interesting words to use instead, does anyone else have a better one? ------------------------------ From: Berg Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:12:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) Actually, the dimensions as described in the Immortals boxed set are mostly like the ones in our universe. (I may get this wrong, but please don't flame me for it) 1-D == length 2-D == width 3-D == depth 4-D == time 5-D == ??? 6-D == ??? (and of course the Vortex) The basic idea is that for a race to practice magic, they must exist in a plane with 1 more dimension than their physical being. In other words, Immortals exist in 5-D space, mortals can cast spells in 4-D space, etc. Hmm, that's not a very good description, but it's the best I can do. As for what Joe Gerber wrote, if Mystara is a 4-s[ace, then the clerics must be getting kinda bored without any spells (Immortals don't have magic in a 4-space, so how would they go about granting magical power to a mortal in a 4-space? It also kinda cuts down on miracles, divine intervention, and of course, totally rules out the Hollow World, the Bead of Oblivion, and the Nucleus of the Spheres, just to name a few). oing by the rules in the Immortals boxed set, it's pretty obvious that Mystara is a 5-D plane. ------------------------------ From: Berg Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:19:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] another Rain of Fire? I'm currently running a couple campaigns in a Mystara where primitive gunpowder weapons have been around for about 40 years, and a spelljamming empire is just now introducing gauss weapons to the planet. Technology hasn't spread much beyond the largest cities, but it's going to eventually. Although, a lot of the "science" and "technology" is actually about half magic...after all, why build a steam boiler you'd have t stoke when you can capture a fire elemental? On the other hand, it's easier to robotically mass-produce machine parts than it is to create them with magic (not to mention the problems involved in casting dispel magic near a magically-created boiler :) Mystara IMC is just entering the steam age, while the next planet out would be an easy match for Earth ala Star Trek: The Next Generation. (The next planet out in the system is the source of the gauss weapons). Generally speaking, one thing to remember before introducing modern (Earth) science to Mystara-like settings, is that magic can do things just as effectively, but technology is easier to work with. The effects of steam power will be interesting, to say the least. ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:28:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] WELCOME TO THE CONSTITUENT ELECTRONIC MAIL SERVICE On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Jason Zavoda wrote: > > Normally I would say that we have been 'spammed' but this time > I would have to say that we have been 'GINGRICHed' which is a bit worse > actually. Why does Primerica Rep. come to mind when I think of who is behind > this. > > Jason Zavoda > > On 5 Mar 1996, GA06.GINGRICH wrote: > > > Thank you for contacting me through the House of Representatives' > >/blah,blah,spam etc. snipped/ > > NEWT GINGRICH > > MEMBER OF CONGRESS Actually, the two are unrelated, for the most part. I know getting this message ten times a day from Newt bites, but please, everyone be patient. Illuminati Online's system is currently being silly, so I am having problems fixing this. Thank you. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:31:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Word From The Admin I just sent something to the list saying to be patient while this Newt thing gets taken care of, but I forgot to change the Subject line, so many may end up just deleting it, so I thought I would send this to to let everyone know I am on it, and to show off my skill at run on sentences. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: "GA06.GINGRICH" Date: 05 Mar 1996 09:00:09 EST Subject: [Mystara] WELCOME TO THE CONSTITUENT ELECTRONIC MAIL SERVICE Thank you for contacting me through the House of Representatives' Constituent Electronic Mail System (CEMS). I am pleased to be a part of this effort to offer citizens a quick and efficient way to communicate with their representatives in Congress. As the ability of Congress to communicate and share information over the Internet is expanded, I expect that program enhancements will be announced and additional members will choose to participate. Your patience during these early stages of the CEMS is greatly appreciated. You can learn more about the CEMS through the Internet address CONGRESS@HR.HOUSE.GOV. If you live in my Congressional District, please be assured that any message you send me over the Internet will be brought to my attention. Be sure to include your mailing address in your Internet message. Thank you again for your interest. Sincerely, NEWT GINGRICH MEMBER OF CONGRESS ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:37:32 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] economics > On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > > according to the economics rules in dragon 187, a family of five > > villagers, can generate 5 sp a month worth of taxes.. > > If this is 5% tax (Darokinian), then it means that this familiy generate > > a 100 sp a month. that is 1200 sps a yearor 120 gps a year > > As a weeks iron rations cost 15 gps for one week, how can anyone survive? They do generate more, but not money. I have allways ruled, that this money families generate means only the spending money. All neccessities (food, housing, materials for work (but not all tools) etc.) has allready been paid for. So this money is the money or paying taxes, loans, etc. and buing new toys, luxuries, extra clothes, new land, new domestics and offcourse for helping out children beginning on their carreer. This means also that even a 100% taxing wouldnt kill the peasants. they just couldnt afford anything but surviving. > This isn't really an answer to your question, but I think the price > of iron rations is an artifact of the old dungeon-focus days, when they > wanted something to keep characters from having too much money. > Iron ratons is rarely more than jerky and various forms of hard > bread. Is this really going to be worth 15 gp? > I wouldn't charge more than 5 gp for a week's rations. I am sure > they made this stuff up in bulk. I do take some 12-18 gp's for Iron rations. But then they stay good for months. This is because the adventurer effect. Shopkeepers know that adventurers have money so they charge more. Then normal rations only cost some 1-7 gp's. Depending much on the location and time of year etc. This food is actually the best tasting as it is fresh and has many different types of food. Then there is the last chance: the peasant food. This is potatoes and such, hard dark bread etc, with water or milk or ale to drink. It isnt wery healthy but keeps you going. Saves for quite long in cellars but not too long in backbacks. Cost like 0,1-2 gp's a week. low cost living in town cost 1 gp per day (food and lodging) (1 sp if you own a house and do your own food) better standard of living (most adventurers) cost 2-5 gp's a day Good standard of living cost 5-20 gp's a day (includes servants etc.) And then there are the thyatians and Alphatians :) - -just my opinions- Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:50:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] my own Re:Guns on..., and more On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, David Melik wrote: > I apologize to those of you who were offended by my posting about guns in > Mystara. When I looked at my posting after the replies, I definitely saw > what you meant. Apology happily accepted. > Also, I doubt that Mr. Van Camp would approve > of auctions here. So I'm posting this once, and whoever wants it email me > at darwin@gp.magick.net because we don't want to clutter up the list with trade. Mr. Van Camp? Trying to make me feel old? Leroy would work fine. No, auctions are pretty much off limits, but a notice that you are running one, such as the one you give, are fine. A note indicating it was over would be fine, also. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do I know what do I know? (I), never look back never look back (no). Stick it in me stick it in me (I), what do I see what do I see? (now)" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (A Higher Form of) Killing ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:16:15 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) > 1-D == length > 2-D == width > 3-D == depth > 4-D == time > 5-D == ??? > 6-D == ??? (and of course the Vortex) > The basic idea is that for a race to practice magic, they must exist > in a plane with 1 more dimension than their physical being. In other words, > Immortals exist in 5-D space, mortals can cast spells in 4-D space, etc. > Hmm, that's not a very good description, but it's the best I can do. I like it. Its much like I think it too. And I tend to call the 5th D the propability. The propability of the stability of dimensions. In a no magic plane this would be 1. Everything is stabile. Things dont change. But in a magical plane this would be something else (depending how much magic) and the stability of other dimensions wouldnt be sure. Take a teleport spell: first you are at X,Y,Z then you cast a spell and use the 5th D to brake the stability of the 3 D:s. Sudenly you are in some other x,y,z :) the sixth might be the propability of the unstability of the stability of the dimensios... Phuee... > oing by the rules in the Immortals boxed set, it's pretty obvious that > Mystara is a 5-D plane. Its also verified in the module Immortal Storm. pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #74 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #75 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 6 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 075 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Melik Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 23:23 PST Subject: Re: [Mystara] WELCOME TO THE CONSTITUENT ELECTRONIC MAIL SERVICE At 08:54 PM 3/5/96 -0500, you wrote: > > Normally I would say that we have been 'spammed' but this time >I would have to say that we have been 'GINGRICHed' which is a bit worse >actually. Why does Primerica Rep. come to mind when I think of who is behind >this. > > Jason Zavoda > >On 5 Mar 1996, GA06.GINGRICH wrote: > >> Thank you for contacting me through the House of Representatives' >>/blah,blah,spam etc. snipped/ >> NEWT GINGRICH >> MEMBER OF CONGRESS >> > We've been MAJORLY spammed and Gingriched! His STUPID message was on here EIGHT WHOLE TIMES! I think we should tell him off! Once is quite more than enough. This is a Mystara mailing list, not a boring drone-on about nonsense list! ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:51:30 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] familiars and Alphatia > Yes, but this is a role-playing folly. I prefer to choose the familar (or > at least have a say over a randomly roled one). There are plenty of people > that think they are hawks who are really toads. Familiars are completely > independant NPC's (at least they will be in my campaign) with a personality > all their own, familiars pick mages as much as mages pick familiars. I > won't give toads to brave, out-going free spirits, but I won't give hawks > to quiet, introverted, morally troubled young mages either, even if they > want one. Why? There are young asshole snobs driving Ferraries playing cool no matter how lusers they really are... If you can afford it... I think its kind of nice when a character thinks hes something else than he really is, and acting so... Like a Knight of Vanya once who thought him self the most holiest of them all... but went to pyts after dead :) Of course if the players are the once erring... > Also, that's why I left in familars eventual natural death. A toad, even > one living 4-5 times longer then average, still won't be annoying to a > player forever (what's a toad live on average anyway?). Maybe next time > he'll get a hawk. Yes. Yes. But you could lengthen the lifespan further if you wanted... just like your own too. But its not easy. > I always liked the "these are certain skills you can only learn in the > school of magic at Glantri". But... (there's always a but) I don't think > this should be one of them. The feel I'm going for is that every mage In my campaing all the special skills of Glantris school are teach only in glantri. But there are other mages too, who know skills and spells that are used eventually to the same ends as the glantians, for excample to get a familiar. It is just that they have have to learn the things themselves, so using more time and money. > equal to or greater then 9th level spells.) If the 1000 36th level mages > who run about in Alphatia can't manage to summon a familiar, then their > continent deserved to sink beneath the seas. :-) Heres the thing I wanted to ask. Do ewerybody play Mystara so that there is 1001 36th level mages in Alphatia (Council + King of Aegos). I have allways read the sentence in Empires bow as: Any 36th level mage is entitled to place in the council. Not as: All the council members are 36th level mages. Its just that the thought of 1000 36th level mages sound purely ridicilous to me. In my campaing there were about 8 36th level mages in the council. Sitting in the first row. The same question goes for the mage-island of Thyatia (is it Scalas or something?). What is your limit for the level of the mages to be allowed to the island? Mine is 9th level or other sufficient prove of knowledge (ie a specialicied teacher in an university might be allowed even if he wasnt at ninth level). > OK, has anyone actually used the Call Companion skill, or know of an NPC > listed somewhere that has? (I always thought is was wierd they give out > all those neat skills, but no NPC in the descriptions has taken advantage > of any of them.) On the campaing we played for many years ending up to some of the players becoming immortals we had two players who used this skill. The elven arcer and later mage and glantrian vicecount Peleon used the skill to summon an owl. And the Glantian mage and later prince (founder of p of Sablestone later given to p. Harald (or what the heck was the name of the p. who become the leader of the school) just before the WoTI) Extremus summoned an Dragonkin creature called Dragonet or something (a kind of feline dragon, he summone it at a quite high level) The Dragonet was mainly used for fly-by taxi and an protector for the princes castle, but the owl was more on the road with the characters. ut helped on scouting and night watch duty. All together the companions were really nice. not too powerful but useful. And It was quite nice how the mighty Elf had to often protect his bird companion. there. Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 03:45:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) Berg pontificated: > > Actually, the dimensions as described in the Immortals boxed set are > mostly like the ones in our universe. > > (I may get this wrong, but please don't flame me for it) > > 1-D == length > 2-D == width > 3-D == depth > 4-D == time Not in OD&D system. Time is a sphere of power. 4th Dimension is somewhere you can draw 4 lines, each perpendicular to the other 3. You can find a representation of 4-d cube at some museum and physics book. 5th and 6th Dimension are where you can draw 5 or 6 lines each perpendicular to each other. > 5-D == ??? > 6-D == ??? (and of course the Vortex) - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: Gordon McCormick Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 09:37:03 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] do you know about Bruce Heard? David Melik wrote: > > Haavard Roenne mentioned a Mystara guru named Bruce Heard. Thanks! I > haven't heard of him before, because I can't afford the subscription to > Dragon. Could anyone that knows tell me about him, like the issues of > Dragon that have his articles? Well, if anyone knows any issues of Dragon > or Dungeon that have Mystara stuff, that would be nice to know. I can't > believe it! I've played D&D for a long time and I've heard of Ed Greenwood > and I hardly know anything about the Realms, but I haven't even heard of the > Mystara guru until now, and Mystara is my favorite world that I use often. > That's strange. Oh, well, I guess it's fate or something. Bruce Heard wrote the original Glantri Gazeteer along with the Orcs of Thar as well as doing a lot of work on the cyclopedia. Also he wrote a column for Dragon running from about issue 152? to about 197? which started as The Voyages of the Princess Ark, which finished as the boxed set came out. The column continued for another 12 issues under a different name (Known World Grimoire?) then puttered out when they released the Karameikos boxed set and changed Mystara to AD&D (boo hiss :) ) Anyway, Bruce Heard and Arron Allston wrote just about everything for Mystara from the time they released the first gazeteer, well maybe not everything, but the majority of the good stuff :) As for Ed Greenwood, I try to like his stuff, but I *hate* The Five Shires gazeteer which he did, and I hate Elminster (there's something so twee about them both), but being the most popular world around I'm sure FR has something going for it...:) :) Anyway, I believe BH was promoted to overall product designer of core AD&D products (or something like that) and I haven't seen anything written by him for a while, which is a shame, because I think that he and AA really got the feel for mystara, that I felt was lacking from the AD&D products :( Also, although Ann Dupuis has written some excellent material (notably PC4 Night Howlers which was very, very cool) I liked the Almanacs less and less as they went on. I dunno, it just seemed to get more "goodie vs baddie" than it was in, for instance, WotI. I can never get to grips with NPC's doing something evil, just cos he's an evil bloke, there's got to be a reason, and one persons agenda will often come into conflict with another person, and each could think the other evil. That's what I liked about the lack of Good-evil alignment in D&D, because it's all a matter of perspective. Things I consider evil, will doubtless be considered good by others and vice versa. Anyway, enough rambling about Alignment stuff (which can go on for *years* :) ). I think that Bruce Heard may be writting some new material for something in the Odessey line, although it might just be something based on his savage coast work. We'll see. Um, this is my first post to this mailing list, so please don't kill me when I make an inevitable mistake :) Thanks.. laters, - -- Gordon McCormick <*> gmccormi@cs.strath.ac.uk http://www.strath.ac.uk/~aau95370/index.html ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 03:50:41 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatian Council and wizard levels. On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Anias Pasi wrote: > Heres the thing I wanted to ask. Do ewerybody play Mystara so that there > is 1001 36th level mages in Alphatia (Council + King of Aegos). I have > allways read the sentence in Empires bow as: Any 36th level mage is entitled > to place in the council. Not as: All the council members are 36th level > mages. Its just that the thought of 1000 36th level mages sound purely > ridicilous to me. In my campaing there were about 8 36th level mages > in the council. Sitting in the first row. > The same question goes for the mage-island of Thyatia (is it Scalas or > something?). What is your limit for the level of the mages to be > allowed to the island? Mine is 9th level or other sufficient prove > of knowledge (ie a specialicied teacher in an university might be > allowed even if he wasnt at ninth level). > You are of course perfectly entitled to that in your campaign, but I always liked the idea of the Alphatian council - a thousand individuals more powerful than an army all sitting in a chamber, all used to getting their own way - and all having different ideas about what should be done. Given the overwhelming power of a 36th-level mage and the underwhelming efficiency of teh Empire of Alphatia from CM1 onwards, I've always played them as deeply divided, and effectively deadlocked. Then I got to read R. Feist's Magician novels , and from then on I thought of the Council as sort of the Mystaran equivalent of the Assembly and the Great Game rolled into one. As my campaign now focuses on Norwold, and the players are moving themselves into prominence in various ways (such as trying to create a spy network...) the Council will be more of a factor in their deliberations than before. Currently, IMC, there's three main factions working in public, and at least half a dozen shady, semi-secret or conspiratorical groups fighting it out behind the scenes. Prominents include Empress Loyalists, Alphatia Millitants, and Uninterested Neutrals (leave everything alone if it doesn't threathen to interfere with our magic), conspiratorical include Alphaks Traitors (ANYTHING for power), Crown Prince Loyalists (A *woman* on the throne ? bugger that !), and Legal Beagles ( One nation, one Law. Down with special privilegies and double standards of justice !) In addition there's lots of crossovers and splinter groups, and..... well you get the idea. I just find the possibilities of power a lot more interesting - and plots are so much more amusing. Besides - there's a lot more level 36 wizards in Alphatia than on the council, so there's lots and lots of individual schemes to oust a particular individual to get yourself installed on the Council ;) ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:00:02 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatian Council and wizard levels. Oeystein H. Lund. wrote > On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Anias Pasi wrote: > Currently, IMC, there's three main factions working in public, and at > least half a dozen shady, semi-secret or conspiratorical groups fighting > it out behind the scenes. Prominents include Empress Loyalists, Alphatia > Millitants, and Uninterested Neutrals (leave everything alone if it > doesn't threathen to interfere with our magic), conspiratorical include > Alphaks Traitors (ANYTHING for power), Crown Prince Loyalists (A *woman* > on the throne ? bugger that !), and Legal Beagles ( One nation, one Law. > Down with special privilegies and double standards of justice !) > In addition there's lots of crossovers and splinter groups, and..... > well you get the idea. I just find the possibilities of power a lot more > interesting - and plots are so much more amusing. Besides - there's a lot > more level 36 wizards in Alphatia than on the council, so there's lots > and lots of individual schemes to oust a particular individual to get > yourself installed on the Council ;) I like these factions wery much (I will use them :) but I dont see why it would be a neccessity for the counsilors to all be 36th level. I can do all you mentioned with my counsil even tough there are only less than a dozen super-mages. The others are all powerful peoples too, if not as individuals then at least politically. Most counsilors are still mages but then there is clerics and elves too and also some fighters (reprecentatives of the countries with less magic-users). So there is at least one more faction: those who want the power away from mages. But as you said its only my campaing, and I was only interested at how many of you use the original ruling, as I myself dislike the way the emperors box had so many high-level characters in it, when the characters in cazzetteers are at more reasonable levels (IMHO). - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 05:09:37 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] another Rain of Fire? On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, David Melik wrote: > That is very interesting. Wow! I hadn't thought of that before. I'm not > going to have guns on Mystara for centuries in my campaign, but that would > make some very interesting roleplaying. You could play on Mystara in the > future in a genre after medieval time, for example, and you could still be > on Mystara and have a great thing to use for a campaign. > > One of the concepts I like to toy with is this: It occurs to me that one of the problems with the original Rain of Fire might have been the difficulties of successfully integrating magic with technology- as we see from the turmoils of the S.S.Beagle, magic seems to affect technology adversely (or certain types of technology anyway- ie, nuclear reactors). Perhaps they concentrated solely on technology in Blackmoorian times, ignoring magic, which caused problems. At any rate, it seems to me that modern day Mystara has done a lot towards integrating the two (magic and science) more effectively thus far than Blackmoor era Mystara. If this is the case, then the invention of gunpowder and its subsequent mixture with magic might mean that the Rain of Fire could be averted, and the future of Mystara would be very interesting to see... (can you say MagiTech, anyone?) ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 05:20:38 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatian Council and wizard levels. On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Oeystein H. Lund. wrote: > Then I got to read R. Feist's Magician novels , and from then on I > thought of the Council as sort of the Mystaran equivalent of the Assembly > and the Great Game rolled into one. As my campaign now focuses on > Norwold, and the players are moving themselves into prominence in various > ways (such as trying to create a spy network...) the Council will be more > of a factor in their deliberations than before. > Currently, IMC, there's three main factions working in public, and at > least half a dozen shady, semi-secret or conspiratorical groups fighting > it out behind the scenes. Prominents include Empress Loyalists, Alphatia > Millitants, and Uninterested Neutrals (leave everything alone if it > doesn't threathen to interfere with our magic), conspiratorical include > Alphaks Traitors (ANYTHING for power), Crown Prince Loyalists (A *woman* > on the throne ? bugger that !), and Legal Beagles ( One nation, one Law. > Down with special privilegies and double standards of justice !) > > In addition there's lots of crossovers and splinter groups, and..... > well you get the idea. I just find the possibilities of power a lot more > interesting - and plots are so much more amusing. Besides - there's a lot > more level 36 wizards in Alphatia than on the council, so there's lots > and lots of individual schemes to oust a particular individual to get > yourself installed on the Council ;) > ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 05:27:21 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatian Council and wizard levels. On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Oeystein H. Lund. wrote: > You are of course perfectly entitled to that in your campaign, but I > always liked the idea of the Alphatian council - a thousand individuals > more powerful than an army all sitting in a chamber, all used to getting > their own way - and all having different ideas about what should be done. > Given the overwhelming power of a 36th-level mage and the underwhelming > efficiency of teh Empire of Alphatia from CM1 onwards, I've always played > them as deeply divided, and effectively deadlocked. (First off, sorry about that last misfired post I sent to the list. I hit the wrong button and it was sent prematurely- DOH!) I like the idea of one thousand 36th level wizards on the council as well. I figure, Alphatia has had what, 2000 years on Mystara to get their crap together, and they were already an advanced society before Landfall, with all sorts of magic going for them, its not a terribly large stretch of the imagination as far as I'm concerned. Oeystein brings up some interesting points, though, that I hadn't really thought about. I hadn't really considered that they might be so deadlocked at times as they probably are- it hadn't really been too important, as I focused on other lands- but, since I've been looking at Alphatia a lot lately, it seems more and more plausible. Also, I am sure that there are a lot of leftovers (at least a couple) from Landfall, or near enough that there are probably more than a few traditionalists (maybe even some Followers of the Flame- q.e. Glantri- who could cause problems, as well as those wizards who just don't want to be bothered... Anyway, I imagine there will be far fewer of the 1000 mages following the Wrath of the Immortals, at least a couple hundred or so, maybe more... If this helps to pare things down for you. :) ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 06:27:16 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] siege and normal weapon mastery On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, David Melik wrote: > Cthuludrew talked about siege weapon mastery, which I have never heard of. > It sounds very interesting. Where is that mentioned? Is it good? I don't > like the D&D weapon mastery system anymore, but I think the idea of weapon > mastery is great. I revised so that the special effects are determined by > the manner the weapon is used in (like thrusting), the effect(like cutting), > and the level of mastery. In it, you start out by being able to do 1 or 2 > special effects maybe, on high rolls, and then you get more effects at > higher levels, and become more adept at them. Instead of +2,4,6,8, I > changed it to +1 to hit & dam/level. If a weapon is used in more than 1 > way, it takes more slots to learn. If anyone wants more details, I'd be > happy to send 'em in, and maybe we could talk about it, and improve it. > The article on siege weapon mastery was written by Bruce Heard, and appeared in Dragon Magazine. I don't recall offhand which issue it was, but I believe it was 187 or somewhere near there. It includes rules for weapon mastery of the major siege weapons- catapults, ballistas, etc- which require all of the operators to have some degree of mastery, though the most important one is the Leader of the group using it. I think it was like, the group can act at the leader's level of mastery as long as they are only one level below him, with subsequent drops for each level the crew is below the leader, or something like that. It also has rules for bombards and handguns(ie, arquebuses) and are where the initial origins of gumpowder are postulated upon. All in all, a very good article. :) ------------------------------ From: JOEGERBER@delphi.com Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 09:36:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) You've hit the nail (orc, goblin, whatever...) on the head. That's *exactly* how I veiew the various Multiverses. For the record, I don't have the original Immortals set, just WOTI. In an eariler mailing, Andrea(sorry if misspelled it, I'm on Mmanual) asked ahow Immortals and Powers compared, . I'm still truying to work the specifics out, but for now Immortaslls in mortal form and the avatars of Powers, when they cross dimensional boundaries, become killasble mortals. This also means the at Immortals can enter Sigil more or less unnoticed. (for people who ndon't have Planescape, Sigil ioss the city in the "center" of the Outerplanes that Powers are barred from entering.) On spells--spells athat are already memorized can be cast freely , under the effect limitations of whichever multiverse/rulebook you're using. ( (Wishes might be an excption.) Also, wizzards, if they have their spellbooks can memorize speelslls normally. Clerics can also meediditate for spells noarmally. Specialty priests (including Paladins, and possibly Druids, depending on which rules you use) are, well, sol. That's I all I have worked out, Joe Gerber P.S. I tried to responde directly to Andrea's post, but the mail here dosesnt''t like it when you don't use lots of CR's, and cannccels the mail.  ------------------------------ From: JOEGERBER@delphi.com Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 09:42:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Space (was Blackmoor) Okay, in that case just up the order of the dimensions by 1 each. (yes, the analogy still applies.) Joe Gerber ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 15:37:13 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nuclear Reactors At 22.07 04/03/96 -0800, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > > >On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > >> >Leroy Van Camp III pontificated: >> >> _fantasy_. Not to mention there are already two nuclear reactors on the >> >> planet, and a player traipsing through the Temple of the Frog is likely >> > >> >Two? One is the Nucleus under Glantry that came from the Beagle, what is >> >the other one? >> >> The other one is in the Chamber of the Spheres/Temple of Rafiel/Temple >> Square/ City of the Stars/Shadow Elves Territories/Mystara. >> Am I right, Leroy ? > > Yup. Too bad we never got to hear what the official lowdone was on >what the Shadow Elves planned to do with this once they were done. > Probably only Rafiel knows what to do with this. The construction of this reactor should be another thing to include in our future almanacs. Moreover, with the conquest of Aengmor/Alfheim and the discovery of Oenkmar many shadowelves will leave their caves, so there will be less miners to extract the soul crystals and so the construction of the reactor may slow down... or maybe the reactor is already finished, perhaps during WotI. What do you think ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 15:37:21 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] economics At 17.11 05/03/96 +0100, you wrote: >according to the economics rules in dragon 187, a family of five >villagers, can generate 5 sp a month worth of taxes.. >If this is 5% tax (Darokinian), then it means that this familiy generate >a 100 sp a month. that is 1200 sps a yearor 120 gps a year >As a weeks iron rations cost 15 gps for one week, how can anyone survive? > >Is something wrong here? >or is it just me who is lousy with maths > The only wrong thing I can find is that probably a normal family of five villagers doesn't eat iron rations, but standard rations (5 gp/week)... and still can't survive. Don't you think that also the fees for lodging and dining given in DotE or a bit too high ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #75 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #76 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, 7 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 076 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:52:05 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] A Familiar Request On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > Familiars can be so useful, especially to low-level mages (and with the > > familar enhancer spells I dug up in an old Dragon even to high level mages) > > that I think someone in all the Principalities would have come up with the > > idea by now. > > Probably-I'd sure like to hear ideas even tho I am not a fan of mages. > Priests rule, man! And dwarves. And halflings. And humanoids. And sea > giant shamans :> RuneQuest has something called allied spirits. Its what priests/shamans have instead of familiars. They can be animals or objects or anything else.. Like it? Haaavrd Faanes ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 16:47:51 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Pc's as entropic immortals At 21.57 05/03/96 PST, David Melik wrote: >I read about Cthuludrew revamping WoTI. I too, found things in it that I >felt needed to be improved, although that was one of my very favorite boxed >sets. Lets discuss it if you want to. > >First, I thought that pc's should be able to become an immortal in the >sphere of entropy if they really wanted to. Even if pc's don't try to >achieve immortality in it (which they often wouldn't), I felt that we need >the details about it for npc's at least. The title I thought up for it was >Dark Lord. The quest, of course, to retrieve an artifact of entropy through >negative things such as violence, deception, trickery, betrayal, etc.. I >thought the textimony would be to get a second-in-command and succesor that >must rise 12 levels in his service. The trial I thought up would be to >create something entropic, like Hel creating those "night creatures" or >whatever, or maybe some nasty magic item. The task could be to spread >entropy in some way, like that devilfish who slew som many >whatever-they-weres, or to have a war and take over an area with orc hordes >or something. As you can see, I haven't written it down yet. I thought >about it a long time ago, and now was reminded by Cthuludrew, so what do you >other people think? I'll probably remember some more stuff, or be reminded >by people on the list. > Actually, rules for becoming immortals in the sphere of entropy already exist. They can be found in Gaz 10 (The Orc's of Thar). BTW: that Gaz was written by Bruce Heard.... ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: TSRInc@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:17:47 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Update update: AD&D CD-ROM OK, I have gotten a lot of mail about the ROM, and so I'll answer the questions in a group (my apologies to those who sent me personal mail about it). First, here is the actual text from the 1996 catalog regarding the CD-ROM: == AD&D CD-ROM Vol I: Core Rules Every aspect of the game is faithfully and beautifully incorporated into a fully cross-referenced, interactive electronic manual, including the complete text of the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master Guide, Monstrous Manual, Tome Of Magic, and Arms & Equipment Guide. Dungeon Masters and players can easily and quickly generate full characters, making every crucial decision along the way, without ever worrying about overlooking a bonus or forgetting a step. AD&D CD-ROM, Volume I, Core Rules features a state-of-the art character generation system for players and Dungeon Masters, and a map generation system, as well as a computer-animated 3-D tour of a village. Designed to be Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Windows 95 compatible. TSR2167 Electronic Accessory On Sale Date: September Suggested Retail Price: $59.95 ISBN 0-7869-0602-2 Format: CD-ROM disc in jewel case, instruction booklet == > What about a Macintosh version? There are no plans for a Macintosh version at this time ("Boo! Hiss!" - - I use a Mac, too, thank you). If you would like to see a Mac version, you should send a suggestion via snail mail to: David Wise TSR, Inc. 201 Sheridan Springs Rd. Lake Geneva, WI 53147 > Will it be at Gen Con? There is a good chance that the software will be available as a sneak preview at Gen Con '96. That is the plan, at least. > Where can I get it? You should be able to get it from where you normally get AD&D materials, as well as from software retailers. > What are the hardware requirements? As of now, the expected requirements will be 486/33, 8MB RAM, double-speed CD-ROM. > Will it have the Monstrous Manual illustrations? From the screenshots I have seen, it has the images from the Monstrous Manual, and some other cool 3D-rendered ones as well (I'll be putting some of these images online later today). > What about updates? Sequels? Well, the ROM is "Volume I." Depending on how this one does, sequels will be considered. Hopefully, any sequels will be designed to fit in with the main ROM. Possible expansions might be the Complete XYZ Handbooks, world-specific sets, etc. > What about world-specific characters, like Athasian half-giants or > Krynnish kender? As this CD-ROM is the "Core Rules," the character generation software will not use races, classes, or spells from sources other than those listed as being used in the ROM. > Can I load it on my hard drive, or is it playable off of the CD only? As much of the software involves the 3D engine and such, you'd want to leave that on your HD. The program is customizable with your own spells, monsters, etc., so some info must be being stored on your HD< but I don't know how much and I don't know how much of the sorftware would be functional if copied off the ROM. - -- Sean Reynolds, TSR Online Coordinator TSRinc@aol.com | AOL: keyword TSR | http://users.aol.com/tsrinc/ ------------------------------ From: jam@wimsey.com (Jenni A. Merrifield) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:42:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Anmial Companions in general Mystarans: With all this discussion about MU Familiars/Companions, it reminded me of a question I've been meaning to pose. I was wondering how DM's on the list have dealt with the idea of "furry friends" in their campaigns. I ask because, IMC, there is a PC who has a dog which he raised from a puppy prior to the start of their adventures (the character has the 'Animal Training (Dog)' Skill) and I'm constantly finding myself forgetting that the animal is there. Usually the player will remind me, frequently when the presence of the animal is definitly going to throw a wrench in the current encounter or situation planned. Of course, if I'd remembered that the animal was THERE, I would re-arrange many encounters to reflect its presence, but once I've told the players what they see, it's bad form (in my opinion) to re-arrange things, even though things could be different. Another thing, of course, is that the dog is *really* like an NPC, but since it is a normal animal, it doesn't have the same kind of intelligence and wisdom of a regular NPC. I sometimes find it difficult to decided what the animal is doing at a given moment -- just because he's trained and his "master" WANTS him to do something or be somewhere doesn't mean he's doing it. So, what my question boils down to is: How do you make sure you remember to take Four Footed and/or Feathered Friends into account and what level of "personal decision" do you give them and what do you do to express it? - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield : ............ -=< strawberryJAMM >=- : Black Holes Are Merely jam@wimsey.com : Where God Divided By Zero http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/ : ............... ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 00:08:11 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Anmial Companions in general At 09.42 06/03/96 -0800, strawberryJAMM wrote: >Mystarans: > > With all this discussion about MU Familiars/Companions, it reminded me >of a question I've been meaning to pose. > > I was wondering how DM's on the list have dealt with the idea of "furry >friends" in their campaigns. I ask because, IMC, there is a PC who has a >dog which he raised from a puppy prior to the start of their adventures >(the character has the 'Animal Training (Dog)' Skill) and I'm constantly >finding myself forgetting that the animal is there. > > Usually the player will remind me, frequently when the presence of the >animal is definitly going to throw a wrench in the current >encounter or situation planned. Of course, if I'd remembered that the >animal was THERE, I would re-arrange many encounters to reflect its >presence, but once I've told the players what they see, it's bad form (in >my opinion) to re-arrange things, even though things could be different. > > Another thing, of course, is that the dog is *really* like an NPC, but >since it is a normal animal, it doesn't have the same kind of >intelligence and wisdom of a regular NPC. I sometimes find it difficult >to decided what the animal is doing at a given moment -- just because >he's trained and his "master" WANTS him to do something or be somewhere >doesn't mean he's doing it. > > So, what my question boils down to is: How do you make sure you >remember to take Four Footed and/or Feathered Friends into account and >what level of "personal decision" do you give them and what do you do to >express it? Interesting questions. Once one of my PCs trained a wolf during a pause between adventures, and then decided to bring the wolf with him. Needless to say that I (and sometimes also the PC) regularly forgot about the wolf. IMO the only way to remember to take them into account is to... write it in bold fonts on the ceiling of your bedroom or something like that. About the animal behavior vs. the master orders: if the master has the Animal Training skill he should be able to teach a command to the animal for n weeks of training (I haven't the RC at hand, so I don't know what number n is). You should have a list of that commands and so it should be easy to decide what the animal do. For example: if your PC teaches the dog to: sit down, retrieve object and attack, he cannot order to his dog to jump a ditch or bark loudly. Well, actually he could give those order, but probably the dof will do what he pleases most. In any case you should treat the dog as a monster or NPC, using morale or intelligence check when in troublesome situations. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Peter Simmons Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:11:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Mystara Multi-Dual Classing This is just a quick question to those of you out there. Does any one know of any rules with regards to dual or multi-classing in the Mystara world? I have a Mystic who will soon be close to 16th level and was wondering if I could dual class her to say ........ a magic user, as this would be most beneficial to my party. This, along with the fact that I still would like her to progress without using the alternate rules, has brought this question to mind. I would be interested to hear of any rules that are out there. Thanks. Peter the Great!!!!!!!!! (no offense to his relatives) ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:17:51 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Anmial Companions in general On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 09.42 06/03/96 -0800, strawberryJAMM wrote: > >Mystarans: > > Another thing, of course, is that the dog is *really* like an NPC, but > >since it is a normal animal, it doesn't have the same kind of > >intelligence and wisdom of a regular NPC. I sometimes find it difficult > >to decided what the animal is doing at a given moment -- just because > >he's trained and his "master" WANTS him to do something or be somewhere > >doesn't mean he's doing it. > > > > So, what my question boils down to is: How do you make sure you > >remember to take Four Footed and/or Feathered Friends into account and > >what level of "personal decision" do you give them and what do you do to > >express it? > > Interesting questions. > Once one of my PCs trained a wolf during a pause between adventures, and > then decided to bring the wolf with him. Needless to say that I (and > sometimes also the PC) regularly forgot about the wolf. IMO the only way to > remember to take them into account is to... write it in bold fonts on the > ceiling of your bedroom or something like that. > About the animal behavior vs. the master orders: if the master has the > Animal Training skill he should be able to teach a command to the animal for > n weeks of training (I haven't the RC at hand, so I don't know what number n > is). You should have a list of that commands and so it should be easy to > decide what the animal do. > For example: if your PC teaches the dog to: sit down, retrieve object and > attack, he cannot order to his dog to jump a ditch or bark loudly. Well, > actually he could give those order, but probably the dof will do what he > pleases most. In any case you should treat the dog as a monster or NPC, > using morale or intelligence check when in troublesome situations. If you want a dog to be like Lassie, then why not let it, as long as it dosnt ruin the plot or the campaign feel. Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:08:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] phanaton pc's and others > I went through my rules cyclopedia and creature catalog marking all the > creatures that I thought should be able to be pc's, but never detailed them Sounds like the palladium book of monsters and animals-sure I love new race/classes. > all like the phanaton pc's posting. I think that Daniel Boese did a great > job on setting phanatons up for a pc race. Im inspired! Maybe people > should start posting some more stuff about pc races. Leroy posted phanaton,rakasta,caymen and something else a few months back. It might be in the archives-I think I have a copy also. > while. Examples of ones I thought of are actaeon, pegataurs, centaurs, > humanoids, cay-men, nosferatu, faeries, pachydermions, etc. I think that Pegataurs are in PC2 I THINK. Faeries are PC1. Cay-men are done already. Humanoids are GAZ10. All's fair in love and big game hunting --- Chumsly ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:17:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] do you know about Bruce Heard? > and I hardly know anything about the Realms, but I haven't even heard of the > > Mystara guru until now, and Mystara is my favorite world that I use often. > > That's strange. Oh, well, I guess it's fate or something. I hadn't heard much about Heard till this list either-I think he wrote one old module(M1?) which i own and I enevr read dragon or a GAZ till a few months ago I read GAZ13, the only one I've yet seen so you're not alone in not knowing that Bruce Heard is the mystara guru. > Anyway, Bruce Heard and Arron Allston wrote just about everything for Mystara from > the time they released the first gazeteer, well maybe not everything, but the > majority of the good stuff :) I know Aaron Allston has(had?) a web page. I assume this means he gets email. THink he might like joining the list? > As for Ed Greenwood, I try to like his stuff, but I *hate* The Five Shires > gazeteer which he did, and I hate Elminster (there's something so twee about them > both), but being the most popular world around I'm sure FR has something going for > it...:) :) Yah-T$R backing. Dragonlance and Mystara are both better worlds. I have finally found good FR books(Douglas Niles,Jeff Grubb, ex-Pitt student Kate Novak), but mostly they seem like trash. > Um, this is my first post to this mailing list, so please don't kill me when I > make an inevitable mistake :) Thanks.. It's OK. We all make mistakes-me more than others, of course :> All's fair in love and big game hunting --- Chumsly ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:05:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Multi-Dual Classing > Mystara world? I have a Mystic who will soon be close to 16th level and > was wondering if I could dual class her to say ........ a magic user, as NO. Mystics are strong enough at 16th level: AC -6. better than any mage and some thieves. HP9D6+14=45.5 avg wo/CON better than any demi-human Att 4 w/ avg damage 19.5 better than any thief,cleric,mage,some demi-humans Mv 320'? better than anyone Thief skills-some at 16th level Spec abilites:Surprised on 1, speak with anything, invisibility 1/day, gnetle touch,martialk arts,etc,etc-better than any non-mage THAC0/saves Mediocre Everything else is so high-power that mystics are good enough with a 36-th level party. So multi-class would make it WAY too powerful,IMO. Also-immortal mystics?4 attacks with 3d12+6d6 punch at Temporal??? Has anyone ever considered this? All's fair in love and big game hunting --- Chumsly ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 13:23:42 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Bruce Heard, Aaron Allston - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > I hadn't heard much about Heard till this list either-I think he wrote one old > module(M1?) which i own and I enevr read dragon or a GAZ till a few months ago > I read GAZ13, the only one I've yet seen so you're not alone in not knowing > that Bruce Heard is the mystara guru. He was Project Manager for the Mystara products, as well as sometime author. I like his work best of all the Mystara products I've read; I associate his style with my vision of Mystara. I liked AA's work, too, and Ann's Night Howlers. :) > > Anyway, Bruce Heard and Arron Allston wrote just about everything for Mystara > from > > the time they released the first gazeteer, well maybe not everything, but the > > majority of the good stuff :) > > I know Aaron Allston has(had?) a web page. I assume this means he gets email. > THink he might like joining the list? AA does have a web page; I assume he will have heard of this list by now, maybe through Ann at least, but it couldn't hurt to invite him to join... > > As for Ed Greenwood, I try to like his stuff, but I *hate* The Five Shires > > gazeteer which he did, and I hate Elminster (there's something so twee about > them > > both), but being the most popular world around I'm sure FR has something > going for > > it...:) :) > > Yah-T$R backing. Dragonlance and Mystara are both better worlds. I have > finally found good FR books(Douglas Niles,Jeff Grubb, ex-Pitt student Kate > Novak), but mostly they seem like trash. I liked some of Ed's old work in Dragon years ago. I thought Greyhawk was a better world than FR, but when Gygax was forced out, it seemed like TSR was anxious to start a new world, and grabbed Greenwood's up. Good choice, I suppose, if they felt that they had to change. It was strange, watching the change at the time. Kara-tur was originally released as the orient of Greyhawk, then sort of wrenched over to the "new official" TSR world, FR. BTW, anyone ever use the info from Kara-tur or Oriental Adventures in Mystara? I would think in Ochalea, or Myoshima (wild spelling errors?); anywhere else? I'd like to hear about it... As for the Shires, I didn't get into it either. Mystara has a different feel from FR, but Ed's work just seems like FR all the time, to me anyway. Shelby ------------------------------ From: kaelin@natural.com (Robert Kaelin) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:34:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bruce Heard, Ed Greenwood >I liked some of Ed's old work in Dragon years ago. I thought Greyhawk was a >better world than FR, but when Gygax was forced out, it seemed like TSR was > >As for the Shires, I didn't get into it either. Mystara has a different feel >from FR, but Ed's work just seems like FR all the time, to me anyway. > >Shelby Actually, if you want to see some early, not to terrible, Ed Greenwood stuff, CM5 (The Endless Stair) is a pretty good module. I don't think it's too hard to find, I picked it up in a hobby store only 6 months or so ago. It's kinda munchkin near the end if the DM isn't careful, but you can tone tht down. He does a good background and good details on the NPC's (both high level mages, of course.) Just mentioning... - -Bob ------------------------------ From: "MALCOLM, SHANNON LEWIS" Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 14:48:56 EST Subject: [Mystara] Mystics On Mystara This is my de-lurk, so be gentle. I read a post about dual-classing a mystic, and it reminded me of something that's been nagging me. To wit: How can mystics best be worked into a Mystara campaign? There are several cloisters in the mountains of Glantri, according to GAZ 3, but even that publication doesn't, IMHO, incorporate them very well intothe big picture. I find it hard to come up with feasible niches for mystics in Mystaran societies, without making them into weird recluses in the mountains and wilderness. They are one of the neatest classes, IMHO, but I wish their roles in the various nations of Mystara were more signifi- cant; except for perhaps Ochalea or Ethengar (and no, I'm not trying to encourage stereotypes) they just seem out of place in Mystara. Any sug- gestions for more effectively incorporating them into a campaign would be appreciated. Shannon L. Malcolm ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 21:05:49 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] phanaton pc's and others At 12.08 07/03/96 -0500, Misha E Gelman wrote: > >> while. Examples of ones I thought of are actaeon, pegataurs, centaurs, >> humanoids, cay-men, nosferatu, faeries, pachydermions, etc. I think that > >Pegataurs are in PC2 I THINK. >Faeries are PC1. >Cay-men are done already. >Humanoids are GAZ10. > Centaurs too are in PC1, if I remember well. Why don't we make undead playable as PC ? I've not that Dragon Magazine at hand, but, when talking about Limbo, it states that if a soul returning to the Prime Plane fails a Constitution and a Wisdom check it then becomes a Ghost. A ghost has, I think, 8 HD, while my PCs are (actually were because I killed them all last week) all below 5 level so some time ago I thought to make the XP table for ghosts, but then I didn't do anything. If anyone is interest in playing or mastering a ghost I can try to work on it. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 21:05:54 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Alignment What should I do if one of my players behaves in a way inconsistent with his alignment (I use the 3 classic OD&D alignments). The easiest way to solve this problem is to assess him a penalty to XP or make him lose a level, then let him change his alignment, but I don't like this solution. What do you think ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: andmissinato@email.telpress.it (Missinato Andrea) Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 22:24:37 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Atlanti su Mystara Hello, someone knows where I can find Mystara gazzetteer in Italy? I've found these so far: 1. Il Granducato di Karameikos 2. Gli Emirati di Ylaruam 3. I Principati di Glantri 4. Il Regno di Ierendi 5. Gli Orchetti di Thar 6. I Nani di Casa di Roccia I wasn't able to find others, neither in Italian or in English language. Can you help me? Post response to me personally. Thanks Andrea ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #76 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #77 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Friday, 8 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 077 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kaelin@natural.com (Robert Kaelin) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:45:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystics On Mystara > This is my de-lurk, so be gentle. I read a post about dual-classing >a mystic, and it reminded me of something that's been nagging me. To >wit: How can mystics best be worked into a Mystara campaign? There are >several cloisters in the mountains of Glantri, according to GAZ 3, but >even that publication doesn't, IMHO, incorporate them very well intothe >big picture. I find it hard to come up with feasible niches for mystics >in Mystaran societies, without making them into weird recluses in the >mountains and wilderness. They are one of the neatest classes, IMHO, but >I wish their roles in the various nations of Mystara were more signifi- >cant; except for perhaps Ochalea or Ethengar (and no, I'm not trying to >encourage stereotypes) they just seem out of place in Mystara. Any sug- >gestions for more effectively incorporating them into a campaign would >be appreciated. In my campaign, Mystics are a very natural, simple people. They've learned their skills by observing nature, and in particular the ways animals fight and move. Mystics attakcs may mimic a tigers raking claws, a gorilla's pummeling fist, or a snakes lightning fast strike. (Most styles specialize in one or two animals, but aspects of just about any animal can be found in any style.) Their speed is learned from observing cheetahs, wolves, etc. Their awareness comes from their heightened senses of smell and hearing (like most animals). Basically, Mystics live much like Druids, varying slightly with the climate and area of course (different animals to study and learn from.) The biggest difference between Druids and Mystics is that most of a Druids powers try to control animals and plants, a Mystic sees himself as one of the animals, and tries to learn a lot from his "brothers". If you really want, you can follow this even farther and tailor Mystics based on their background. (Mystics from jungles or mountains would probably be very different from one who lived by the sea.) Mystics are mostly hard to incorporate, IMHO, because they really don't want anything. Money, fame, power, magic items (well most magic items) don't really mean anything to the average Mystic. Once you can find a good goal for a Mystic, avenging a destroyed Monastary, sent to deliver an important message, etc. you shouldn't have a lot of trouble keeping him integrated in the campaign. - -Bob ------------------------------ From: "J. Hunter Johnson" Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:04:01 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atlanti su Mystara These are the ones I have, in English Dawn of the Emperors: Thyatis and Alphatia GAZ02: The Emirates of Ylarum GAZ04: The Kingdom of Ierendi GAZ05: The Elves of Alfheim GAZ06: The Dwarves of Rockhome GAZ09: The Minrothad Guilds GAZ10: The Orcs of Thar GAZ11: The Republic of Darokin GAZ12: The Golden Khan of Ethengar GAZ13: The Shadow Elves GAZ14: The Atruaghin Clans Hunter - -- /\ J. Hunter Johnson / \ jhunterj@io.com, http://www.io.com/~jhunterj GURPS Bibliographer / () \ finger jhunterj@io.com for GURPS bib. & Errata Co-coordinator /______\ sjg-errata@io.com "Exotic Dancer Barbie does not bump or grind by herself." ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:39:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bruce Heard, Ed Greenwood > Actually, if you want to see some early, not to terrible, Ed Greenwood > stuff, CM5 (The Endless Stair) is a pretty good module. I don't think it's > too hard to find, I picked it up in a hobby store only 6 months or so ago. > It's kinda munchkin near the end if the DM isn't careful, but you can tone > tht down. > > He does a good background and good details on the NPC's (both high level > mages, of course.) CM8. GOod new spells, monsters and magic items. Low combat and potential for very much RPing. High power at the end-the Throne thingy-it gives you many ideas on how to force the PCs from it. PS I love eaters-of-magic All's fair in love and big game hunting --- Chumsly ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:13:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Sunrise vs moonset? I've had the Eastern Trail Map for a while now, and just noticed a slight.. oddity about the times Matera is supposed to rise and set. In the real world, when the moon is full it rises at sunset and sets at sunrise. When it's new, it rises and sets with the sun.. which it should, since it's between the Earth and the sun. However, according to the "Moon Appearances Over Thyatis" chart on the edge of the map, Matera simply slides along.. rising at 7pm, then 9pm, 11pm, 1am, 7am, 1pm, 5pm, etc., over a 3-month period. But since it's full 3 times and new 3 times during that one period, I suppose it doesn't quite work the same way our moon does. :) The simplest explanation I can come up with is that Matera is white on one side and black on the other, and isn't tidally locked with Mystara. :) But that seems to me to be a cop-out, so does anybody have a better idea? - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca PS: If anybody has the Western Trail Map locally for a reasonable price, please email me. :) ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 18:23:52 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystics On Mystara Mystics on Mystara- one of my favorite topics. :) Let's see- you already mentioned the cloister in Glantri, sort of a Tibetan monastery. Ochalea is an obvious starting point for mystics, as it's roughly based (IMO) on China- all sorts of different sects could be active here. There are several mystic orders in Sind, and there is at least one monastery on an island in the Minrothad Guilds area, not to mention the White Island monks in Ierendi (though they're not quite right in the head, IIRC). Other areas? Myoshima, obviously, though only Rakasta would come from there. Certainly there could be some areas in Alphatia that could harbor mystical sorts- probably in the Minaen region. There is no reason to think that they are only confined to these areas, though. Mystics could migrate across the world, establishing cloisters in order to further the enlightenment of others- I have one in Karameikos at the moment. Nor need they all have good intentions- some could be fostering evil, a la the Scarlet Brotherhood from Greyhawk. All sorts of thoughts... Fakirs in Ylaruam, not to mention the Dervishes... it kind of depends on what you're looking for in the way of an order. Not everyone in Mystara ascribes to Immortal philosophies, so an alternative could be a cloister to provide spiritual guidance as well as protection from the dangerous environs. ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 19:51 PST Subject: [Mystara] An Important Re: economics At 05:11 PM 3/5/96 +0100, Haavard Faanes wrote: >according to the economics rules in dragon 187, a family of five >villagers, can generate 5 sp a month worth of taxes.. >If this is 5% tax (Darokinian), then it means that this familiy generate >a 100 sp a month. that is 1200 sps a yearor 120 gps a year >As a weeks iron rations cost 15 gps for one week, how can anyone survive? > >Is something wrong here? >or is it just me who is lousy with maths Many people replied to this already, but I don't think any mentioned what I am going to mention, and if so, I don't remember it being explained, which is important, so I'll tell you what I think about it. Nothing is wrong here, actually. You must have just forgotten something that is important. If you have the Rules Cyclopedia, look on p 140. This is probably in one of the 5 rules sets too, but I'm not going to go search for it right now. What I'm talking about is the Dominion Income part. A ruler of a dominion gets income from taxes, which include "payment in kind", or services and materials like grain and work, cash tax, and resource income, which is based on the number of peasant families. These add up to an average of 13 gp a month from each peasant family, in cash, goods, and services. As you can see, this is an entirely different system than the one in the Dragon article. The value of gold is much less. The problem is that you are using parts from two seperate systems. By the Cyclopedia, it seems like you can survive at this price. Personally, I think that gold isn't worth enough in this system, but if you're going to use prices from it, use the income from it too. I hope this clears things up if they haven't been already. :) David Melik darwin@gp.magick.net By the way, I'm still learning about my email program, and I wrote a signature, so if my name appears again under here, I guess that's why. David Melik darwin@gp.magick.net ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 19:52 PST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystics..., and also Druids Bob wrote this about his campaign ...>most animals). Basically, Mystics live much like Druids, varying slightly >with the climate and area of course (different animals to study and learn >from.) The biggest difference between Druids and Mystics is that most of a >Druids powers try to control animals and plants, a Mystic sees himself as >one of the animals, and tries to learn a lot from his "brothers". I've always played it the following way. Druids consider themselves part of nature, and that they are the brothers of animals and plants. They protect it because other people try to control and exploit it. They are at home in nature and know their way around it and how to use it. Nature gladly helps druids because druids help nature and protect it from those who would harm it. A druid does not force plants or animals to do things for him, this is the very thing that a druid opposes. Mystics, IMO have aspects of clerics, monks, philosophers, martial artists. They have ceratin beliefs and seek mental and physical improvement and perfection. there can be Mystics that are not neutral. That sounds like a very different but interesting campaign, Bob. Everyone plays it how they want so they have fun. :) David Melik darwin@gp.magick.net ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 19:52 PST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alignment At 09:05 PM 3/7/96 +0100, you wrote: >What should I do if one of my players behaves in a way inconsistent with his >alignment (I use the 3 classic OD&D alignments). >The easiest way to solve this problem is to assess him a penalty to XP or >make him lose a level, then let him change his alignment, but I don't like >this solution. >What do you think ? > >************** >Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it >DM in City Of The Stars >aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr >Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 > ************** > > > Have you ever heard of a helm of alignment changing?... that would be a good solution :) David Melik darwin@gp.magick.net ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 19:52 PST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystics On Mystara At 02:48 PM 3/7/96 EST, you wrote: > This is my de-lurk, so be gentle. I read a post about dual-classing >a mystic, and it reminded me of something that's been nagging me. To >wit: How can mystics best be worked into a Mystara campaign? There are >several cloisters in the mountains of Glantri, according to GAZ 3, but >even that publication doesn't, IMHO, incorporate them very well intothe >big picture. I find it hard to come up with feasible niches for mystics >in Mystaran societies, without making them into weird recluses in the >mountains and wilderness. They are one of the neatest classes, IMHO, but >I wish their roles in the various nations of Mystara were more signifi- >cant; except for perhaps Ochalea or Ethengar (and no, I'm not trying to >encourage stereotypes) they just seem out of place in Mystara. Any sug- >gestions for more effectively incorporating them into a campaign would >be appreciated. > Shannon L. Malcolm > > If you can get the Champions of Mystara boxed set still (it was one of the last OD&D products), I think that you'll find that it has some very interesting information on Mystics in it, as long as much other very useful and interesting things(like the areas of Sind and the Serpent Peninsula, and others, great world building and campaign info., detailed airship and air rules), for a good value. I liked it a lot. You know, Mystics could be just about anywhere. There should't only be temples in lots of places, but monasteries too. Don't forget about the medieval European monks. David Melik darwin@gp.magick.net ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 19:52 PST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bruce Heard, Ed Greenwood At 02:34 PM 3/7/96 -0400, Bob wrote: >Actually, if you want to see some early, not to terrible, Ed Greenwood >stuff, CM5 (The Endless Stair) is a pretty good module. I don't think it's >too hard to find, I picked it up in a hobby store only 6 months or so ago. >It's kinda munchkin near the end if the DM isn't careful, but you can tone >tht down. Also, Aaron Aalston did Dawn of the Emperors and Hollow World if I remember, which are pretty neat. Well, thanks for the info, but I've been getting all the old Mystara stuff I see for years, and I'm around halfway there, but I've noticed that it's getting harder to find. :( Is it just me because I have a lot already, or are other people noticing too? I wish TSR did't let it all go out of print, maybe that's why. I like all the old stuff they had much better. They were better value, and they were original Mystara, and both of those are very awesome things. David Melik darwin@gp.magick.net ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 19:52 PST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Multi-Dual Classing At 01:05 PM 3/7/96 -0500, you wrote: >> Mystara world? I have a Mystic who will soon be close to 16th level and >> was wondering if I could dual class her to say ........ a magic user, as > >NO. > >Mystics are strong enough at 16th level: > >AC -6. better than any mage and some thieves. >HP9D6+14=45.5 avg wo/CON better than any demi-human >Att 4 w/ avg damage 19.5 better than any thief,cleric,mage,some demi-humans >Mv 320'? better than anyone >Thief skills-some at 16th level >Spec abilites:Surprised on 1, speak with anything, invisibility 1/day, >gnetle touch,martialk arts,etc,etc-better than any non-mage >THAC0/saves Mediocre > >Everything else is so high-power that mystics are good enough with a >36-th level party. So multi-class would make it WAY too powerful,IMO. > >Also-immortal mystics?4 attacks with 3d12+6d6 punch at Temporal??? Has >anyone ever considered this? > > > >All's fair in love and big game hunting > --- Chumsly > > > So what's the point? I think that it's just fine, they'll still have to earn all the xp for it. They aren't spending the time learning about Mystic stuff, so they can use it to be a mage. I think that the DM should be asked about it because that's the person who's running the campaign. Of course, it would be good to mention what Chumsly just said to the DM. Oh, I just had another thought, maybe there should be an xp penalty because the mystic probably has to still soend time keeping in good physical and mental condition, and practicing the mystical arts. I think that would be more realistic than what either of us said previously. Well, it's the DM's final decision. This is the place to discuss it, but not to say "NO.", in someone elses campaign, right? David Melik darwin@gp.magick.net ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 19:52 PST Subject: [Mystara] questions about places I have XL1 Quest for the Heartstone, and I've heard some say that it's on Mystara. I pored over every single one of my numerous maps and looked through all my books, and did not see it anywhere. Also, in the Dragon's Den adventure pack, it has one of those little games, you know, and in it, it mentioned Karameikos. I pored over my material again, to see if the lands presented in it were there, and had the same result. I guess the game wasn't related to the adventures exept for the map and theme. I'm pretty sure that these two places are not on Mystara, but I don't know for sure. What are you people on the list's experiences with these lands if you have the products? Or better yet, is there someone who knows for sure? I've heard that there are people from TSR on the list, maybe they know or could find out... David Melik darwin@gp.magick.net ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 19:51 PST Subject: Re:[Mystara]do you know... also oriental adventures on Mystara Several people wrote these things in reply to my who is Bruce Heard posting: >I hadn't heard much about Heard till this list either-I think he wrote >one old module(M1?) which i own and I enevr read dragon or a GAZ till a >few months ago I read GAZ13, the only one I've yet seen so you're not >alone in not knowing that Bruce Heard is the mystara guru. > >> Anyway, Bruce Heard and Arron Allston wrote just about everything for Mystara from >> the time they released the first gazeteer, well maybe not everything, but the >> majority of the good stuff :) Oh, you're right. I looked at all the names on my old D&D stuff and saw their names many times on some of my favorite products. :) >I know Aaron Allston has(had?) a web page. I assume this means he gets >email. THink he might like joining the list? That would be really nice if someone posted the internet address to the page... >Yah-T$R backing. Dragonlance and Mystara are both better worlds. I have >finally found good FR books(Douglas Niles,Jeff Grubb, ex-Pitt student >Kate Novak), but mostly they seem like trash. Mystara is by far my favorite published world, and Dragonlance has some very interesting stuff in it, like kenders and tinkers. The only think I really like is Oriental adventures book that I got a while back, and I think it's cool. By the way, does anyone know any good places to incorporate this into Mystara, if you've tried it? I don't remember any oriental places on Mystara offhand. Ah, I just thought of a couple of good places. Maybe east of Alphatia or wast of Sind and Hule. David Melik darwin@gp.magick.net ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 19:52 PST Subject: [Mystara] Re:familiar messages, and also Wychlamps I always thought it would be neat to have a pocket dragon(a tiny dragon) as a familiar, which can be found in either of the Creature Catalog(ue)s. If you're playing in Glantri or Alphatia, where there are lots of mages, try a Wychlamp for a familiar, heh heh heh... just kidding. ;) If you want to throw in something different and challenging though, especially when there are mages, this would make a great monster. The mages would have to use thier wits some more because after a while, they wouldn't want to use their magic around them. Heh heh, speaking of that, think of what a dungeon filled with them would do, trapped under the floor in random places. I don't know how someone would get them there though... Wychglows are also where pocket dragons are, and for those of you that don't know, they really screw uo magic, and are sought after by peple who want to slay mages. David Melik darwin@gp.magick.net ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:59:31 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alignment > What should I do if one of my players behaves in a way inconsistent with his > alignment (I use the 3 classic OD&D alignments). > The easiest way to solve this problem is to assess him a penalty to XP or > make him lose a level, then let him change his alignment, but I don't like > this solution. > What do you think ? Well. I personally dont considerer the aligment so binding. It could change from time to time. Also even good peoples might sometimes do samething bad, its not so bad. (though the -exp. should be aplyed). Also we use the Traits from the Northern Reaches Cazetteer, which helps to see the picture of the PC's mentality. (we dont rate the Traits exactly as in the caz though) Anyways. Should a player mostly play the character as of some aligment that he is not, I would change the aligment (for 1 step at a time). I wouldnt neccessarily even say it to the player, unles he noted it in the sheet himself :) Then he could play as usually, thinking say that he is awful, but really beeing neutral. And thought about the game-effects... Should the player have any aligment-based hardware or such (not likely) he just would note that the things dont work as they used. An intelligent sword might ask the bearer to let him go, and if not, use it powers to get away from the PC. So there. Quite drastic, but should work :) Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:24:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Multi-Dual Classing On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, David Melik wrote: > At 01:05 PM 3/7/96 -0500, you wrote: > >Everything else is so high-power that mystics are good enough with a > >36-th level party. So multi-class would make it WAY too powerful,IMO. > > > > So what's the point? I think that it's just fine, they'll still have to > earn all the xp for it. They aren't spending the time learning about Mystic > stuff, so they can use it to be a mage. I think that the DM should be asked The only way I'd allow a level 16 mystic to "dual-class" is if he dropped the mystic powers entirely. I might let him retain up to 3rd-6th level mystic abilities after the change, but no more. Why ? Very simple. The class restrictions state than a mystic needs to spend a certain amount of time in the monastery training to keep his abilities. Otherwise, he's going to lose them at the rate of 1 level/6 months(?), IIRC. He's going to be dropping steadily in levels, anyway. I say he's going to lose all his mystic levels sooner or later if he dual-classes, becaus een when you dual-class you have to abide by the old class restrictions to gain the benefits from it. The mystic class restrictions make any such ideas impractical at best. Why would I let him kep any powers at all then ? -Well, I guess a level 16 mystic should remember enough to keep himself in shape. But it's the community and striving for perfection in the monastery that allows him to retain his abilities. Once he dual-classes, he's going to lose that fellowship. Remember - a level 16 mystic SHOULD have responsibilities beyond himself. At the very least, he's going to be responsible for an abbey, and quite probably in charge of more than one. If he dual-classes he abandons his responsibilities. In my opinion, such a momenteous event should have some serious campaign effects. Who'd trust him after that ? And whatever his true alignment, everyone will perceive him as a chaotic nut - he abandons his responsibilities on what is essentially a whim. That's how outsiders will perceive him - I'm not saying the desicion won't be in character... Although, come to think of it, I'd probably hit the dual-classer with an alignment change, quite possibly to chaotic. ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:04:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ed Greenwood.. and Elminster. > > As for Ed Greenwood, I try to like his stuff, but I *hate* The Five Shires > > gazeteer which he did, and I hate Elminster (there's something so twee about them > > both), but being the most popular world around I'm sure FR has something going for > > it...:) :) > One thought that's always comforted me is that if Elminster ever was crazy enough to go planehopping to Mystara and got involved with Alphatia, the meddling old fool would be digging his own grave for good and all ;) There are mages in Alphatia who're old enough to make Elminster seem like a confused teenager, and if he irked someone powerful, he'd have the Council of Mages coming down on him... IMHO, there's be a smoking hole in the ground where Shadowdale once stood, and a glowing ruin where his demiplane drifted - if Alphatia decided he annoyed them. And I can't think of anyone more annoying ;) ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #77 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #78 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Saturday, 9 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 078 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Melik Date: Fri, 8 Mar 96 01:56 PST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Multi-Dual Classing At 01:24 AM 3/8/96 -0600, you wrote: >On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, David Melik wrote: >> At 01:05 PM 3/7/96 -0500, you wrote: >> >Everything else is so high-power that mystics are good enough with a >> >36-th level party. So multi-class would make it WAY too powerful,IMO. >> > >> >> So what's the point? I think that it's just fine, they'll still have to >> earn all the xp for it. They aren't spending the time learning about Mystic >> stuff, so they can use it to be a mage. I think that the DM should be asked > > The only way I'd allow a level 16 mystic to "dual-class" is if >he dropped the mystic powers entirely. I might let him retain up to >3rd-6th level mystic abilities after the change, but no more. Why ? > Very simple. The class restrictions state than a mystic needs to spend >a certain amount of time in the monastery training to keep his abilities. >Otherwise, he's going to lose them at the rate of 1 level/6 months(?), >IIRC. He's going to be dropping steadily in levels, anyway. I say he's >going to lose all his mystic levels sooner or later if he dual-classes, >becaus een when you dual-class you have to abide by the old class >restrictions to gain the benefits from it. The mystic class restrictions >make any such ideas impractical at best. > Why would I let him kep any powers at all then ? -Well, I guess a >level 16 mystic should remember enough to keep himself in shape. But it's >the community and striving for perfection in the monastery that allows >him to retain his abilities. Once he dual-classes, he's going to lose that >fellowship. > Remember - a level 16 mystic SHOULD have responsibilities beyond himself. >At the very least, he's going to be responsible for an abbey, and quite >probably in charge of more than one. If he dual-classes he abandons his >responsibilities. In my opinion, such a momenteous event should have some >serious campaign effects. Who'd trust him after that ? And whatever his >true alignment, everyone will perceive him as a chaotic nut - he abandons >his responsibilities on what is essentially a whim. That's how outsiders >will perceive him - I'm not saying the desicion won't be in character... > Although, come to think of it, I'd probably hit the dual-classer with an >alignment change, quite possibly to chaotic. > > > I understand more now. That's exactly why, later in my letter, I said there should be an xp penalty. He will have free time in which he can study magic. It would have to be a large penalty, now that I think about it, maybe 4-10 as much xp is needed. If a mystic has responsobilities, it should be more than an adventuring mystic that doesn't really take care of the monastery. He wouldn't need an alignment change if he was fulfilling his resposibilities, and so he would have the xp penalty instead. That's about all I'm going to write for now, so if you want me to write more later, just ask David Melik darwin@gp.magick.net ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Fri, 8 Mar 96 02:03 PST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ed Greenwood.. and Elminster. At 02:04 AM 3/8/96 -0600, you wrote: >> > As for Ed Greenwood, I try to like his stuff, but I *hate* The Five Shires >> > gazeteer which he did, and I hate Elminster (there's something so twee about them >> > both), but being the most popular world around I'm sure FR has something going for >> > it...:) :) >> > One thought that's always comforted me is that if Elminster ever was >crazy enough to go planehopping to Mystara and got involved with >Alphatia, the meddling old fool would be digging his own grave for good >and all ;) There are mages in Alphatia who're old enough to make >Elminster seem like a confused teenager, and if he irked someone >powerful, he'd have the Council of Mages coming down on him... > IMHO, there's be a smoking hole in the ground where Shadowdale once >stood, and a glowing ruin where his demiplane drifted - if Alphatia >decided he annoyed them. And I can't think of anyone more annoying ;) > > I disagree with one idea. I don't know a lot about Elminister, but I know he is basically a demigod, and has an unbelievably vast library of powerful spells, probably most or all that TSR made. He could beat any mage in Alphatia, or several, at once. I do agree, though, that more mages, and certainly Alphatia all together would really screw him over. But who cares! That's just how it is. I like Mystara much better than FR, and the fact that FR has a more powerful mage doesn't really make any difference now, does it. Mystara is just the coolest TSR world around in my opinion. :) note to Leroy - I just called you Leroy now instead of Mr. Van Camp :) ------------------------------ From: "J. Hunter Johnson" Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:25:20 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mystara]do you know... also oriental adventures on Mystara David Melik wrote: >>I know Aaron Allston has(had?) a web page. I assume this means he gets >>email. THink he might like joining the list? > >That would be really nice if someone posted the internet address to the page... http://www.io.com/~allston/ Hunter - -- /\ J. Hunter Johnson / \ jhunterj@io.com, http://www.io.com/~jhunterj GURPS Bibliographer / () \ finger jhunterj@io.com for GURPS bib. & Errata Co-coordinator /______\ sjg-errata@io.com "Exotic Dancer Barbie does not bump or grind by herself." ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Fri, 8 Mar 96 14:51:10 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystics On Mystara At 14.48 07/03/96 EST, you wrote: > This is my de-lurk, so be gentle. I read a post about dual-classing >a mystic, and it reminded me of something that's been nagging me. To >wit: How can mystics best be worked into a Mystara campaign? There are >several cloisters in the mountains of Glantri, according to GAZ 3, but >even that publication doesn't, IMHO, incorporate them very well intothe >big picture. I find it hard to come up with feasible niches for mystics >in Mystaran societies, without making them into weird recluses in the >mountains and wilderness. They are one of the neatest classes, IMHO, but >I wish their roles in the various nations of Mystara were more signifi- >cant; except for perhaps Ochalea or Ethengar (and no, I'm not trying to >encourage stereotypes) they just seem out of place in Mystara. Any sug- >gestions for more effectively incorporating them into a campaign would >be appreciated. > Shannon L. Malcolm > If you own Champions of Mystara you can see a great way to incorporate Mystics in a campaign. In the kingdom of Sind there are several cloisters and mystics play an important role in Sindian society. IMO, of course. BTW: apart from Glantri and Sind there is another group of mystics in Minrothad, I think. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Fri, 8 Mar 96 14:56:21 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sunrise vs moonset? At 19.13 07/03/96 -0500, you wrote: > I've had the Eastern Trail Map for a while now, and just noticed a >slight.. oddity about the times Matera is supposed to rise and set. > In the real world, when the moon is full it rises at sunset and sets at >sunrise. When it's new, it rises and sets with the sun.. which it should, >since it's between the Earth and the sun. > However, according to the "Moon Appearances Over Thyatis" chart on the >edge of the map, Matera simply slides along.. rising at 7pm, then 9pm, >11pm, 1am, 7am, 1pm, 5pm, etc., over a 3-month period. But since it's >full 3 times and new 3 times during that one period, I suppose it doesn't >quite work the same way our moon does. :) > The simplest explanation I can come up with is that Matera is white on >one side and black on the other, and isn't tidally locked with Mystara. >:) But that seems to me to be a cop-out, so does anybody have a better >idea? Something about sunrise&moonset is also in PC4 Night Howlers. I don't know if it is different from what is on the ETM, because I haven't got that Map. Probably also in that chart the moon follows a 3-month cycle, but with different hours of rising and setting (maybe because PC4 is about Glantri). ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:54:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] questions about places > I have XL1 Quest for the Heartstone, and I've heard some say that it's on > Mystara. I pored over every single one of my numerous maps and looked > through all my books, and did not see it anywhere. Also, in the Dragon's > Den adventure pack, it has one of those little games, you know, and in it, > it mentioned Karameikos. I pored over my material again, to see if the > lands presented in it were there, and had the same result. I'm pretty > sure that these two places are not on Mystara, but I don't know for sure. > What are you people on the list's experiences with these lands if you have > the products? As far as I've been able to tell, every single basic/expert/etc module and the Thunder Rift series are set in Mystara; they just don't always tell you where. (After all, they created the Known World out of those modules, they /should/ be in it.. :) ) There are a couple of modules that don't specifically say where they're placed.. for example M1: Blizzard Pass is on a pass between the Five Shires and Darokin, and B8: The Secret of the Rock is supposed to be in the 'Wilderness' to the northwest of Glantri. (I'm still trying to figure out quite where in Ethengar BSOLO: Lion Castle is, though.. :) ) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: jam@wimsey.com (Jenni A. Merrifield) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:04:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sunrise vs moonset? Daniel: > In the real world, when the moon is full it rises at sunset and sets at > sunrise. When it's new, it rises and sets with the sun.. which it should, > since it's between the Earth and the sun. > However, according to the "Moon Appearances Over Thyatis" chart on the > edge of the map, Matera simply slides along.. rising at 7pm, then 9pm, > 11pm, 1am, 7am, 1pm, 5pm, etc., over a 3-month period. But since it's > full 3 times and new 3 times during that one period, I suppose it doesn't > quite work the same way our moon does. :) > The simplest explanation I can come up with is that Matera is white on > one side and black on the other, and isn't tidally locked with Mystara. > :) But that seems to me to be a cop-out, so does anybody have a better > idea? In my opinion, whoever put the table together probably didn't know how the real moon works (lots of people don't) and no one else at TSR realized it at the time. I tend to use the current phase of the moon and "real world physics" to determine when the moon rises & sets. I mean, by definition of "full moon" it has to rise after the sun has gone down and set before the sun rises! However, if you *want* to use the rules as given, I suspect your reasoning is as good as any... - -=< strawberryJAMM >=- - -- Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield : ............ -=< strawberryJAMM >=- : Black Holes Are Merely jam@wimsey.com : Where God Divided By Zero http://www.wimsey.com/~jmott/ : ............... ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:53:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystics On Mystara MALCOLM, SHANNON LEWIS pontificated: > > This is my de-lurk, so be gentle. I read a post about dual-classing > a mystic, and it reminded me of something that's been nagging me. To > wit: How can mystics best be worked into a Mystara campaign? There are > several cloisters in the mountains of Glantri, according to GAZ 3, but > even that publication doesn't, IMHO, incorporate them very well intothe > big picture. I find it hard to come up with feasible niches for mystics > in Mystaran societies, without making them into weird recluses in the > mountains and wilderness. They are one of the neatest classes, IMHO, but > I wish their roles in the various nations of Mystara were more signifi- > cant; except for perhaps Ochalea or Ethengar (and no, I'm not trying to > encourage stereotypes) they just seem out of place in Mystara. Any sug- > gestions for more effectively incorporating them into a campaign would > be appreciated. Well, IMO, they are out of place in Mystara. Along with most of the more oriental aspects in the campaign. The reason I don't like them that much is that oriental fantasy have a very different feel to them, it is hard to describe, but put cats in Samurai armor does not make an intant oriental campaign, as the whole culture behind the fantasy is totally different. In many time, however, an oriental setting is no different from the classical western fantasy except for superfacial differences. Sorry about my rambling, back to the original point on mystics. I think perhaps the best way to incorporate them into Mystara is just to shed their easter favor. Why do they have to be in cloisters? Why do they have to be recluses? Maybe the first mystic on Mystara are just a fighter experimenting with new fighting styles. Or a thief tring to beef up a bit for toe-to-toe fighting. You might have to change some of the special abilities and stuffs a bit, but I think this will work out better than tring to force something oriental into a mostly western game. Just my 2 cents, of course. Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: TSRInc@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 14:58:43 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Update update update: AD&D CD-ROM Will it have the Player's Option and DM Option rules, too? No. The CD-ROM will only have the info from the PHB, DMG, MM, ToM, and A&E Guide. The title of the product is the "Core Rules," not "Optional Rules." Depending on how the first ROM does, expansions will be considered, and one of those expansions might be a "Options" expansion. - -- Sean Reynolds, TSR Online Coordinator TSRinc@aol.com | AOL: keyword TSR | http://users.aol.com/tsrinc/ ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:30:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] (mystara) offtopic > Have you ever heard of a helm of alignment changing?... that would be a good > solution :) A short note here on one PC of mine. He started as a neutral dwarf. When he found the Heartstone, he was killed by his double. Alignment to chaotic. Then, the party managed to get a helm of AL change on him-AL to lawful. Three alignments in 1 PC. 3 names too(changed it each time by 1 or 2 letters). Now immortal-he returned himself to neutral! All's fair in love and big game hunting --- Chumsly ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:49:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Mystics in Mystara The HW GAZ for Milenia mentions mystics as a class that would work well with the spiritual-type setting with an emphasis on a physical/spiritual blend. Just a note for the topic. All's fair in love and big game hunting --- Chumsly ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Sat, 9 Mar 96 00:05:27 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Clerics in Glantri Glantri City, AC 1001: the Council of Princes is deadlocked over a bill allowing the practice of clerical magic under very strict conditions. The meausure goes to the Parliament and it passes. Who voted against the bill in the Council ? My first idea was: Jaggar Von Drachenfelds because he hates Ethengar and its clerics Morphail because of undeads and necromancy Brannart Mc Gregor for similar reasons Jherek Virayana because he's a traitor according to Ethengarians Etienne d'Ambreville because he is Rad and he should help is were-friends. The others five princes have, IMO, no apparent reasons to vote against the bill. But, in this way, the "no" votes are 97 against 94 "yes" and the Council isn't deadlocked. So, what do you think are the real fronts ? As you know, the measure passed in Parliament (BTW: who was "pro" and who "against" in the House of lords ?): which restrictions do you think the above mentioned rulers impose over clerical magics and abilities in their principalities ? For example: no undead turning in Boldavia, healing magic in Aalban....and so on. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Fri, 8 Mar 96 16:18 PST Subject: Re: [Mystara] questions about places At 11:54 AM 3/8/96 -0500, Daniel Boese wrote: > As far as I've been able to tell, every single basic/expert/etc module >and the Thunder Rift series are set in Mystara; they just don't always Actually, I know for a fact that Thunder rift is not in Mystara, as I have every Thunder Rift related product. In the Challenger Series DM Screen, it has an adventure which leads the pc's from Thunder Rift to Mystara, through a dimensional pool, so they are even in different dimensions. It's quite possible, though, that Thunder Rift could be placed on Mystara because it is a rip in space and time or something like that and exists in many places I think. IMC, there is a series of caverns on Mystara that lead to Thunder Rift becasue of the rift in space and time. It just wasn't set there by TSR, but you can use it as a thing to travel to other worlds, as it has about 7 exits that could lead anywhere. IMC, 1 leads to Mystara, 1 to a world of my making, another to a harsh desert wasteland which I don't know what's beyond, and the others are open for expansion. It's very interesting. The Rift is only about 1 24-mile map hex, so you can place it on any world, even a TSR map, without that much trouble at all. I'm so glad they put that Mystara-Thunder Rift adventure in the DM screen because that's what got me started collecting Mystara stuff. :) ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 06:03:33 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] phanaton pc's and others On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > Why don't we make undead playable as PC ? > I've not that Dragon Magazine at hand, but, when talking about Limbo, it > states that if a soul returning to the Prime Plane fails a Constitution and > a Wisdom check it then becomes a Ghost. A ghost has, I think, 8 HD, while my > PCs are (actually were because I killed them all last week) all below 5 > level so some time ago I thought to make the XP table for ghosts, but then I > didn't do anything. > If anyone is interest in playing or mastering a ghost I can try to work on it. Sure, but give roleplaying ideas, adventure outlines etc too if you can. Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 06:08:27 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ed Greenwood.. and Elminster. On Fri, 8 Mar 1996, Oeystein H. Lund. wrote: > One thought that's always comforted me is that if Elminster ever was > crazy enough to go planehopping to Mystara and got involved with > Alphatia, the meddling old fool would be digging his own grave for good > and all ;) There are mages in Alphatia who're old enough to make > Elminster seem like a confused teenager, and if he irked someone > powerful, he'd have the Council of Mages coming down on him... > IMHO, there's be a smoking hole in the ground where Shadowdale once > stood, and a glowing ruin where his demiplane drifted - if Alphatia > decided he annoyed them. And I can't think of anyone more annoying ;) I dont like elminster, but i like the fact that characters like Elminster get so famous, that people who dont know the setting know recognize their name. Most AD&D worlds have some famous NPCs I guess the most profilated Mystara character is Haldemar of Haaken.... Could anyone perhaps run some articles on any other Npcs? Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 06:01:08 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alignment On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > What should I do if one of my players behaves in a way inconsistent with his > alignment (I use the 3 classic OD&D alignments). > The easiest way to solve this problem is to assess him a penalty to XP or > make him lose a level, then let him change his alignment, but I don't like > this solution. > What do you think ? This is what i did: I skipped the entire alignment system. I used the traits system from The Northern Reaches and developed further with inspiration from the Pendragon game. Now, what gaming effects has alignment? 1. certain classes/religions have alignment requirements. Using this system, a certain level of one or more traits is required. f.eks: in order to become cleric/paladin of Athruagin, you must have an Honest trait of at least 16. 2. spells of aligment detection: detect extreme traits. 3. Swords with alignment: same as 1. Imagine: Only the Chaste may vield this sword :) 4. alignment changing helms: raises/decreases a trait to the extreme. (16+ or 4-) anything else? ok, this takes a bit of work, so if you aint ready for it then, leave it :) Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 00:17:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sunrise vs moonset? I don't have the map on hand, so I can't check the numbers to do the calculations. But is it possible that Patera(sp?) are located between Matera and Mystara, and its strange light bending property deflact the light from Matera, causing it to appear rising and setting and unexpected times? Perhaps a smart astronomer can even deduce the location of Patera base on this fact. Of course, we need to come up a reason why Patera doesn't affect the light from stars and other objects. Daniel Boese pontificated: > > I've had the Eastern Trail Map for a while now, and just noticed a > slight.. oddity about the times Matera is supposed to rise and set. > In the real world, when the moon is full it rises at sunset and sets at > sunrise. When it's new, it rises and sets with the sun.. which it should, > since it's between the Earth and the sun. > However, according to the "Moon Appearances Over Thyatis" chart on the > edge of the map, Matera simply slides along.. rising at 7pm, then 9pm, > 11pm, 1am, 7am, 1pm, 5pm, etc., over a 3-month period. But since it's > full 3 times and new 3 times during that one period, I suppose it doesn't > quite work the same way our moon does. :) > The simplest explanation I can come up with is that Matera is white on > one side and black on the other, and isn't tidally locked with Mystara. > :) But that seems to me to be a cop-out, so does anybody have a better > idea? > > -- > Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca > > PS: If anybody has the Western Trail Map locally for a reasonable price, > please email me. :) > - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #78 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #79 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, 12 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 079 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 00:35:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] economics Well, the entire economic system of Mystara needs to be reworked if you want it to be realistic. As for the price of iron ration, it is high because, a: it is a speciality item, very low demend except for the rich adventurers, and b: salt and spices that are used to preserve the food are very rare in some areas. Haavard Roenne Faanes pontificated: > > according to the economics rules in dragon 187, a family of five > villagers, can generate 5 sp a month worth of taxes.. > If this is 5% tax (Darokinian), then it means that this familiy generate > a 100 sp a month. that is 1200 sps a yearor 120 gps a year > As a weeks iron rations cost 15 gps for one week, how can anyone survive? > > Is something wrong here? > or is it just me who is lousy with maths > > Haavard Faanes > > - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 06:33:25 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] An Important Re: economics On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, David Melik wrote: > At 05:11 PM 3/5/96 +0100, Haavard Faanes wrote: > >according to the economics rules in dragon 187, a family of five > >villagers, can generate 5 sp a month worth of taxes.. > >If this is 5% tax (Darokinian), then it means that this familiy generate > >a 100 sp a month. that is 1200 sps a yearor 120 gps a year > >As a weeks iron rations cost 15 gps for one week, how can anyone survive? > > > >Is something wrong here? > >or is it just me who is lousy with maths > > Many people replied to this already, but I don't think any mentioned what I > am going to mention, and if so, I don't remember it being explained, which > is important, so I'll tell you what I think about it. > > Nothing is wrong here, actually. You must have just forgotten something > that is important. If you have the Rules Cyclopedia, look on p 140. This > is probably in one of the 5 rules sets too, but I'm not going to go search > for it right now. What I'm talking about is the Dominion Income part. > > A ruler of a dominion gets income from taxes, which include "payment in > kind", or services and materials like grain and work, cash tax, and resource > income, which is based on the number of peasant families. These add up to > an average of 13 gp a month from each peasant family, in cash, goods, and > services. As you can see, this is an entirely different system than the one > in the Dragon article. The value of gold is much less. The problem is that > you are using parts from two seperate systems. By the Cyclopedia, it seems > like you can survive at this price. Personally, I think that gold isn't > worth enough in this system, but if you're going to use prices from it, use > the income from it too. I think you are wrong. I looked over the article. It seems to me that this is a revision, because taxes are not supposed to bring in that much money. As far as i can see, it is supposed to be compatible with other price lists. Someone wrote that the new system was used to give the sp more value, but i dont see it mentioned anywhere... Am I blind?..or don i know where to look? Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 07:17:43 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Heartstone (was: offtopic) On Fri, 8 Mar 1996, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > Have you ever heard of a helm of alignment changing?... that would be a good > > solution :) > > A short note here on one PC of mine. He started as a neutral dwarf. > When he found the Heartstone, he was killed by his double. Alignment to > chaotic. Then, the party managed to get a helm of AL change on him-AL > to lawful. Three alignments in 1 PC. 3 names too(changed it each time > by 1 or 2 letters). Now immortal-he returned himself to neutral! Ive haerd about the Heartstone.. How excactly doest it work? just curious. Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:32:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sunrise vs moonset? > I don't have the map on hand, so I can't check the numbers to do the > calculations. Straight from the map, then, here's the table: - ------------------------------------------------ MOON APPEARANCES OVER THYATIS ------------------- 1 Season ------------------ Week----Month #1---------Month #2--------Month #3------ #1 NM 7:00pm-7:00am 1:00am-12:00pm 1:00pm-8:00pm #2 FQ 8:00pm-9:00am 4:00am-1:00pm 3:00pm-11:00pm #3 FM 9:00pm-10:00am 7:00am-3:00pm 5:00pm-2:00am #4 LQ 11:00pm-11:00am 10:00am-5:00pm 6:00pm-5:00am For each 10 degrees of latitude North of Thyatis, moon rises 20 minutes later (earlier if South) and sets 20 minutes earlier (later if going South of Thyatis). [Thyatis is approx. 30 degrees N; Thanegioth 20; Landfall 50; and Farend 60.] - ------------------------------------------------ > But is it possible that Patera(sp?) is located between > Matera and Mystara, and its strange light bending property deflact the > light from Matera, causing it to appear rising and setting at unexpected > times? I'm not sure just where Patera is supposed to be; I haven't found the article of Dragon where Haldemar goes there (anybody out there? :) ). Hm.. it sounds unusual, to say the least. As far as I know, Patera is suppose to bend the light back in the same direction it started from, though. It's an idea, though.. Let me think about it. :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Sat, 9 Mar 96 13:13 PST Subject: Re: [Mystara] An Important Re: economics I said: >>If you have the Rules Cyclopedia, look on p 140. This Haavard Faanes said: >i dont see it mentioned anywhere... >Am I blind?..or don i know where to look? I guess you don't know where to look. It's right there on p 140, I said. I also checked the Companions set and it's on p 5 of the DM's book. Haavard said that he looked at the article again, but mentioned nothing about looking in the rules. My point is that you are using a price from the rules and you're using a different price system. If it was compatible we wouldn't have this problem, would we? So look at the pages I mentioned and you will understand totally what I mean. ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 23:15:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Heartstone (was: offtopic) > Ive haerd about the Heartstone.. > How excactly doest it work? > just curious. Not totally sure. One side effect was it made the party battle their opposites in behavior. Also, I think it let you read emotions off people... All's fair in love and big game hunting --- Chumsly ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 22:07:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ed Greenwood.. and Elminster. On Fri, 8 Mar 1996, Oeystein H. Lund. wrote: > > > As for Ed Greenwood, I try to like his stuff, but I *hate* The Five Shires > > > gazeteer which he did, and I hate Elminster (there's something so twee about them > > > both), but being the most popular world around I'm sure FR has something going for > > > it...:) :) Well, I liked the Five DSHires, except for one thing... the word Hin. This bloody word drives me insane! Why? I have no clue. For some odd reason this words just annoys the hell out of me. And did he just mention that they call themselves this? NOOOOO... he used it every chance he got. There you go, my irrational side. As for Elminster and the Realms... I am a big FR fan, also, but I am often confused about why certain individuals of the Realms are as popular as they are. I find Elminster to be one of the most boring and generic characters I have seen in a RPG setting. And I think I am one of the few on the FR list who doesn't feel Drizzt is "kewl". A little anecdote I like to share is on the Elminster in my version of the Realms. He's a greasy, weasely little 4th level wizard, and I try to let my PC's meet and kill him in every FR campaign I run. Gets a smile every time. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Another slave and a victim of fate, another lesson in hate." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Burning Inside ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 02:21:33 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystics On Mystara On Fri, 8 Mar 1996, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: > Well, IMO, they are out of place in Mystara. Along with most of the > more oriental aspects in the campaign. The reason I don't like them > that much is that oriental fantasy have a very different feel to them, Umm, I don't think you have to use the 'oriental' aspect much at all if you're uncomfortble with them. Most religions develop Mystic sects who cloister themselves and try to seek God within themselves. Oftentimes these sects also train themselves to be able to withstand the rigors of teir very physical forms of meditation - the sufis and dervishes of Islam and the Mystics of Antioch (early christian) comes to mind. Any Immortal whose worship has a spiritual/internal bent to it could conceivably develop Mystic orders. Ant the martial arts aspect could be solved quite easily, once you know that Alexander the Great brought Pankration boxers with him to the East and thus introduced Martial Arts to Asia - although 'twas much refined since ;) Martial arts don't neccessarily have to me of karate/kung fu/judo extraction - there's always Savate, Pankration, some of the Sufi styles, and so on... ------------------------------ From: tgm@rhein.iam.uni-bonn.de Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:24:20 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatian Council and wizard levels. > On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Anias Pasi wrote: > > Heres the thing I wanted to ask. Do ewerybody play Mystara so that there > > is 1001 36th level mages in Alphatia (Council + King of Aegos). I have > > allways read the sentence in Empires bow as: Any 36th level mage is entitled > > to place in the council. Not as: All the council members are 36th level > > mages. Its just that the thought of 1000 36th level mages sound purely > > ridicilous to me. In my campaing there were about 8 36th level mages > > in the council. Sitting in the first row. In my D&D-times, after my players and me had played for about 10 years with the same characters - they were now between the 31. and 36. level - i dropped a note about "1000 Level 36. Mages in the Council of Alphatia" ... After some seconds of though, the first answer to this was: "If this is correct, and if we play it this way, i stop playing right now!" They could nor imagine that, after playing such a long time, and after doing such alot of things (including saving several worlds, planes, dimensions and universes), they could possible be such alot of high-level mages on a single planet ... After short, we decided to switch the game-system (GURPS) to give up this level-based game - now there are simply 1000 mighty mages in the council, but it is simply unknown what exactly they are capable of. Btw., we play Alphatia still beeing in the Known World, not in the Hollow one, s this is an Wraith of the Immortals thing, and we played mostly with the original (golden) Immortal Set (which i value much over the second one, although it is increadible inconsistent and full of need for errata and enhancements), as i see WoTI as a plot to drive D&D into AD&D ... Byebye, - -- Thomas (tgm) Ackermann | G i b GATES | DOS* |Great minds tja ;-) Tel. 0228/73-7773 | 631369 | k e i n e | WIN* |discuss ideas (e-mail: tgm@rhein.iam.uni-bonn.de) | C h a n c e ! | WIN95|-------------- - -----------------------------------------------------------------|Average minds mail a sole "help" and/or "add discuss-l" line (in mail-body) to |discuss events listserv@math.uni-bonn.de to be added to a list were you can |-------------- talk about non-GURPS related things with people from GURPSnet-L |Small minds - -----------------------------------------------------------------|discuss people ------------------------------ From: Gordon McCormick Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 14:48:00 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ed Greenwood.. and Elminster. Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > > Well, I liked the Five DSHires, except for one thing... the word Hin. > This bloody word drives me insane! Why? I have no clue. For some > odd reason this words just annoys the hell out of me. And did he just > mention that they call themselves this? NOOOOO... he used it every > chance he got. > There you go, my irrational side. > As for Elminster and the Realms... I am a big FR fan, also, but I am > often confused about why certain individuals of the Realms are as popular > as they are. I find Elminster to be one of the most boring and generic > characters I have seen in a RPG setting. And I think I am one of the few > on the FR list who doesn't feel Drizzt is "kewl". > A little anecdote I like to share is on the Elminster in my version > of the Realms. He's a greasy, weasely little 4th level wizard, and I try > to let my PC's meet and kill him in every FR campaign I run. > Gets a smile every time. Strangely enough I did the same thing with a wee hin (well OK, halfling) called Bungo, who would show up every so often, shout "No!" at a mage, and get promptly lightning bolted...ah, such a sense of satisfaction :) Anyway, what I didn't like about Gaz8 was the way Ed Greenwood seemed to be trying to make the halflings really, really powerful. Every two sentences was "Ah, but don't you try being nasty to a kid in the Shires, or ol' Bess the Hin Hero from round the corner'll cut you into a million pieces." There's even a section where it suggests that if the PC's barge in front of old hin they'll be treated like scum and have the 20th Lvl retired fighter who runs the inn run them out of town! It seemed like this horrificly perfect society where all the nice little hin would sit and drink tea and muffins, safe from the evil Glantrians cause they happened to be all incredibly powerful (or have a local powerful ally). It seemed designed to stop PC's from running around killing halflings (as if they would suddenly decide to invade). I dunno how The Black Eagle Baron expected to defeat them... Anyway, I much prefer the sort of society presented in Gaz3. Glantri has plots, intrigue, loads of different factions, none of which are exactly, well, goody, goody, and a healthy dose of comedy to boot. I hope you're not getting the idea that I like PC's to be running about being cruel to children or something, I just feel that NPC's should act like real people and not St George or the Kurgen. There's plenty of ways baddies can be bad without just slapping an alignment on them (oops, back to my pet hate :) ) Oh yeah, and Drizzt is, well, a bit like the folks out of Bubblegum Crisis..hmm, wonder if he'll win this epic battle to the death... Enough moans about Ed Greenwood and AD&D, back to some Mystara! - -- Gordon McCormick <*> gmccormi@cs.strath.ac.uk http://www.strath.ac.uk/~aau95370/index.html ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:19:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] questions about places Before this group got started, I was always asking about the settings of different modules on the D&D newsgroup. Here's what I was left with: B5 - nobody was able to offer a location for the river Shrill. The most logical location seemed to be south of Darokin before Athenos was built. (See maps of the continent from X1 era). "End of the traders road" with miles and miles of (Malpheggi) swamp to the south and west (as per the description in the module). The location in Karameikos in B1-9 is a fudge, of course. B7 - apparently somebody from the old RPGA said that when it first came out, it was allegedly set in Western Alfheim. This works well (the arabic influence from Ylaruam immediately to the east, the elven forest being so mysterious) The location in B1-9 is given much later. B8 - mentioned in module north of Lake Amsorak (good locale) or in Karameikos (too module-dense in my opinion) B9 - ??? The Savage Coast ??? XL-1 - I've always considered it either northwest Brun or another continent altogether (with the heroes eventually travelling to Ierendi at the time of the Master's Great War) Any other insight? Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:29:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Clerics in Glantri On Sat, 9 Mar 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > Glantri City, AC 1001: the Council of Princes is deadlocked over a bill > allowing the practice of clerical magic under very strict conditions. The > meausure goes to the Parliament and it passes. Obviously just barely. > Who voted against the bill in the Council ? > My first idea was: > Jaggar Von Drachenfelds because he hates Ethengar and its clerics Jagger looks down upon clerics, but does not hate or fear them like the others. It could be that some of his people voted for the bill because they knew he didn't feel threatened and they had purposes of their own. > Morphail because of undeads and necromancy Everyone associated with Igorov would obviously vote against the bill. > Brannart Mc Gregor for similar reasons Yes, but all who belong to the House of Crowngaurd do not feel the same way, and here the bill may find some tentative support. Of course, Morphail would run hot lead in their marrow and clot their corpuscles when he found out (if he was paying attention). > Jherek Virayana because he's a traitor according to Ethengarians and hates clerics (but the others of the House of Singhabad may be persuaded) > Etienne d'Ambreville because he is Rad and he should help is were-friends. again, not all the nobles would feel the same way (Dame Genevieve is a prime example) > The others five princes have, IMO, no apparent reasons to vote against the bill. but would obviously not unanimously support it. > But, in this way, the "no" votes are 97 against 94 "yes" and the Council > isn't deadlocked. So, what do you think are the real fronts ? Remember the players! In my own campaign, there were 3-5 PC barons and viscounts at the time. Their vote made a difference (as it always may in my campaign). > > As you know, the measure passed in Parliament (BTW: who was "pro" and who > "against" in the House of lords ?): which restrictions do you think the > above mentioned rulers impose over clerical magics and abilities in their > principalities ? For example: no undead turning in Boldavia, healing magic > in Aalban....and so on. > More on this later. Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 23:15:02 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatian Council and wizard levels. At 12.24 11/03/96 -0700, Thomas (tgm) Ackermann wrote: > >In my D&D-times, after my players and me had played for about 10 years with the >same characters - they were now between the 31. and 36. level - i dropped a >note about "1000 Level 36. Mages in the Council of Alphatia" ... > > After some seconds of though, the first answer to this was: > > "If this is correct, and if we play it this way, i stop playing > right now!" > >They could nor imagine that, after playing such a long time, and after doing >such alot of things (including saving several worlds, planes, dimensions and >universes), they could possible be such alot of high-level mages on a single >planet ... > (better yet, on a single continent) Why not ? What's the problem ? Alphatia is very old and a 36th level mage shouldn't have many problems to extend his lifespan using potions or similar devices (think at Master Terari). More, if there is (better: was) one 36th level mage in "little" and "young" Glantri (Etienne) it shouldn't be astonishing to have 1000 of them in "big old" Alphatia. And we're talking only about the KW, but Mystara is far bigger and unexplored. Last thing: if you put together all the wizard PC who successfully reached 36th level in all the Mystara campaigns played on our planet, will you fall short of 1000 ? Just my opinion. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 23:14:56 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Clerics in Glantri At 13.29 11/03/96 -0500, D.J.Sahlas wrote: > >On Sat, 9 Mar 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > >> Glantri City, AC 1001: the Council of Princes is deadlocked over a bill >> allowing the practice of clerical magic under very strict conditions. The >> meausure goes to the Parliament and it passes. > > Obviously just barely. > >> Who voted against the bill in the Council ? >> My first idea was: >> Jaggar Von Drachenfelds because he hates Ethengar and its clerics > > Jagger looks down upon clerics, but does not hate or fear them >like the others. It could be that some of his people voted for the bill >because they knew he didn't feel threatened and they had purposes of >their own. > >> Morphail because of undeads and necromancy > > Everyone associated with Igorov would obviously vote against the >bill. > >> Brannart Mc Gregor for similar reasons > > Yes, but all who belong to the House of Crowngaurd do not feel >the same way, and here the bill may find some tentative support. Of >course, Morphail would run hot lead in their marrow and clot their >corpuscles when he found out (if he was paying attention). > >> Jherek Virayana because he's a traitor according to Ethengarians > > and hates clerics (but the others of the House of Singhabad may >be persuaded) > >> Etienne d'Ambreville because he is Rad and he should help is were-friends. > > again, not all the nobles would feel the same way (Dame Genevieve >is a prime example) > >> The others five princes have, IMO, no apparent reasons to vote against the bill. > > but would obviously not unanimously support it. > Ok, you're right when saying that not all nobles associated with a Prince should vote like him (except perhaps for the ones linked to Igorov), but then you're talking about the House of lord in Parliament, where every noble can vote and where, at last, the bill (barely) passes, whereas I was talking about the Council. Because first a bill is voted in the Council, then if this one is deadlocked, it goes to the Parliament. And the Council is composed only of the 10 Princes. I can just mix the 10 Princes in various way and add their votes until the two factions are balanced, but I don't think this is a good idea. There should be a logical explanation. >> But, in this way, the "no" votes are 97 against 94 "yes" and the Council >> isn't deadlocked. So, what do you think are the real fronts ? > > Remember the players! > > In my own campaign, there were 3-5 PC barons and viscounts at the >time. Their vote made a difference (as it always may in my campaign). > If you have nobles PC, all right, but that's not my case and I don't think that whoever at TSR decided to allow clerics in Glantri (was it Ann Dupuis in PC4 ?) thought at your players (no offense intended). ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Gordon McCormick Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:11:13 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatian Council and wizard levels. tgm@rhein.iam.uni-bonn.de wrote: > > In my D&D-times, after my players and me had played for about 10 years with the > same characters - they were now between the 31. and 36. level - i dropped a > note about "1000 Level 36. Mages in the Council of Alphatia" ... > > After some seconds of though, the first answer to this was: > > "If this is correct, and if we play it this way, i stop playing > right now!" > > They could nor imagine that, after playing such a long time, and after doing > such alot of things (including saving several worlds, planes, dimensions and > universes), they could possible be such alot of high-level mages on a single > planet ... The explanation given in Dawn of The Emperors, is that unlike the PC's who go up levels very, very quickly, and can probably get to about 10th from first in less than a year, the folks on Alphatia sit for centuries muddling about with experiments, getting experience from that. They wouldn't know how to save the world if you gave them a handy hint book, and probably wouldn't wander around getting involved in heroic adventures anyway. But I'd agree that so many high level MU's in the one place, especially when compared with, say, Glantri, is a bit out of proportion. So how to solve the problem? Use the old Wrath of the Immortals. > Btw., we play Alphatia still beeing in the Known World, not in the Hollow one, > s this is an Wraith of the Immortals thing, and we played mostly with the > original (golden) Immortal Set (which i value much over the second one, although > it is increadible inconsistent and full of need for errata and enhancements), > as i see WoTI as a plot to drive D&D into AD&D ... I don't think WotI was to change D&D into AD&D since I think that happened about 2 years later. I think the main thing WotI did was to curtail Alphatia's power. The 1000 wizards and others wouldn't really be capable of surviving firstly the sinking of Alphatia, or even the week without magic. How many of them would be like Eriadna and on potions of longevity? I'd guess most of them, and used WotI as a handy way of getting rid of an empire that just wasn't a nice place to play in. We did have one campaign there (well, it lasted about 12 adventures, dunno if that's a campaign :) ) very cool but there's no sense of danger from the wilderness, mainly because there isn't any. Alphatia seemed too tamed for my liking. Also too big, it should've swamped Glantri if it hadn't been for the fact that everyone in Alphatia is so apathetic. Anyway, just my two pence, and another chance to waffle :) (hmmm, GURPS Mystara? Need to look into that, I dunno if I want realism though :) :) ) - -- Gordon McCormick <*> gmccormi@cs.strath.ac.uk http://www.strath.ac.uk/~aau95370/index.html ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #79 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #80 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, 12 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 080 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:27:17 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mystara] GURPS On Mon, 11 Mar 1996 tgm@rhein.iam.uni-bonn.de wrote: > After short, we decided to switch the game-system (GURPS) to give up this > level-based game - now there are simply 1000 mighty mages in the council, > but it is simply unknown what exactly they are capable of. GURPS Mystara Im trying to convert my D&D campaing into GURPS. any experience others would want to share, is appreciated. Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:05:59 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Famous NPCs. On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, Shelby Michlin wrote: > > yep...Bargle the infamous..how could i forget him. Never Ever kill him off > :) > > ????Bargle???? > > Shelby > Bargle the Infamous, former mage of the Black Eagle barony Alltime badguy who is now in Sind i belive, after he betrayed the Black Eagle Baron of Karameikos. Bargle is featured in several scenrios, and in some adventure ideas too, where he plays the role of the nemesis villain. Never heard of him? Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Hunter Johnson Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:41:33 +0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] GURPS [I'm posting this to both the Mystara list and also the GURPSnet list.] On Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:27:17 +0100 (MET), Haavard Roenne Faanes said: >GURPS Mystara >Im trying to convert my D&D campaing into GURPS. >any experience others would want to share, is appreciated. I ran a GURPS Alfheim game for a while. Here is some of the info. I have a full campaign plan in Microsoft Word for Windows 6.0 format, also. New skills from the Gazeteer: Treewalking (PA), Bargaining (same as Merchant), Craftsman (use one of the Craft skills), Knowledge of the Tree of Life (MH), Hiding (same as Camouflage), Knowledge of Magic Lore (treat as History specialty). Elves reach maturity at 20. Aging rolls begin at 400 (every 8 years) and accelerate at 560 and 720. Elves younger than 100 suffer from one level of the youth disadvantage. A 100-year-old elf can put up to 36 points in skills, thereafter increasing by 2 pts/yr. Elves have Treewalking at DX and Tracking at IQ, as well as a Sense of Duty to the forest. It costs 5 points to play an elf. I also used the Unlimited Mana rules from Pyramid 9, and made the world high mana. The Recovery Rate from UMana was tied to study with the character's spellbook, to model the D&D way. I also ruled that the gestures for spell-casting could only be done in light encumbrance or less. Ceremonial enchantment only. 20 UB for Psi, 0 UB for Magic, 20 UB for Knacks, variable UB for cinematic martial arts styles, 150 UB for Cybertech :-). Base wealth $750, 1 gold piaster = $4. Literacy level is illiterate. Hunter - -- /\ J. Hunter Johnson / \ jhunterj@io.com, http://www.io.com/~jhunterj GURPS Bibliographer / () \ finger jhunterj@io.com for GURPS bib. & Errata Co-coordinator /______\ sjg-errata@io.com "Exotic Dancer Barbie does not bump or grind by herself." ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:45:49 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ed Greenwood.. and Elminster. On Sun, 10 Mar 1996, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > > > On Fri, 8 Mar 1996, Oeystein H. Lund. wrote: > > > > > As for Ed Greenwood, I try to like his stuff, but I *hate* The Five Shires > > > > gazeteer which he did, and I hate Elminster (there's something so twee about them > > > > both), but being the most popular world around I'm sure FR has something going for > > > > it...:) :) > > Well, I liked the Five DSHires, except for one thing... the word Hin. > This bloody word drives me insane! Why? I have no clue. For some > odd reason this words just annoys the hell out of me. And did he just > mention that they call themselves this? NOOOOO... he used it every > chance he got. It may not be a very good name, but at least its a name. Noone would call themselves halflings would they? As for them being tough..I like that. The Hin of Mystara were once friendly little cute childlike beeings, but after being messed with for centuries, they have changed. I liker the fact that the Hin are a bit different from those of other worlds.. The Halflings of FR really suck (pardon the immature expression) Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:51:23 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatian Council and wizard levels. On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Gordon McCormick wrote: > tgm@rhein.iam.uni-bonn.de wrote: > > [Snip] > > > > They could nor imagine that, after playing such a long time, and after doing > > such alot of things (including saving several worlds, planes, dimensions and > > universes), they could possible be such alot of high-level mages on a single > > planet ... > > The explanation given in Dawn of The Emperors, is that unlike the PC's who > go up levels very, very quickly, and can probably get to about 10th from > first in less than a year, the folks on Alphatia sit for centuries > muddling about with experiments, getting experience from that. They > wouldn't know how to save the world if you gave them a handy hint book, > and probably wouldn't wander around getting involved in heroic > adventures anyway. Exactly. The Pc's are mostly following The Way of the Warrior, or posibly the Path of Adventurer. This is distinct from Alphatian magic-users who follow the Way of the Scholar or Path of the Ruler. Heh, even Pc's can do that, but most of us are action junkies who'd rather run about fighting dragons than sit in a research lab for forty years trying to work out the right formula for the spell that causes naked dancing girls to appear in your bedroom... (Of course, by the time you can do that, you've forgotten what comes next :) ) I've got a level 19 MU playing IMC, and he states that he doesn't feel that his character's role is disminished in any way by knowing that there are others out there that are more powerful than himself ;) -or that they are there in such numbers as in Alphatia. Because their average age is 300 - and he's 30 years old. At this rate, he's going to make Immortal before any of them start thinking about it. He doesn't see a problem, and frankly, neither do I. This ties in to the Deadlocked Council thing too - the single largest faction on there are the Disinterested Neutrals - the scholars who don't care about any issue that doesn't affect their opportunities to further research magic. But they'll still vote in council, and they'll vote against any attempt to change the current status quo for fear that their 'cushy spots' will be changed... Of course, you could run the place like a young Melnibone Empire, but it loses something then. What with the cypric self-absobtion and zzonga-fruit addicts in the culture, there's a lot of justification for thinking of it as a Tsurani/Empire of the Petal Throne or possibly Degenerate Melninbone - the civilization is already at the limit of what it can administrate and rule effectively, and the people is old and jaded. They've done everything, seen everything, and conquest holds no thrill for those in power. If they were interested, they'd steamroll Thyatis flat in about two weeks ;) ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:40:56 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] questions about places On Fri, 8 Mar 1996, David Melik wrote: somethin about Thunderrift.. Which module had a Thunderrift-Mystara adventure? Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:58:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ed Greenwood.. and Elminster. > There's even a section where it suggests that if the PC's barge in front of old hin > they'll be treated like scum and have the 20th Lvl retired fighter who runs the inn > run them out of town! > > It seemed like this horrificly perfect society where all the nice little hin would > sit and drink tea and muffins, safe from the evil Glantrians cause they happened to > be all incredibly powerful (or have a local powerful ally). It seemed designed to > stop PC's from running around killing halflings (as if they would suddenly decide to > invade). I dunno how The Black Eagle Baron expected to defeat them... I like it , even tho I never saw the GAZ. Halfling should be all-powerful. And dwarves. And clerics. I think I gave a fuller list earlier, but what the heck. Oh, and I hated GAZ13 coz eleves were too powerful. > Enough moans about Ed Greenwood and AD&D, back to some Mystara! D'oh. I love insulting Forgotten Realms trash novels. (sigh) Reagan lived to invade really SMALL islands -Prof.Sims after one of his Cuban History students asked about the likelihood of reaction to the recent events in Cuba if Reagan was still in charge,citing Grenada as an example of Reagan approaches ------------------------------ From: Gordon McCormick Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:07:38 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ed Greenwood.. and Elminster. Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > > It may not be a very good name, but at least its a name. Noone would call > themselves halflings would they? As for them being tough..I like that. > The Hin of Mystara were once friendly little cute childlike beeings, but > after being messed with for centuries, they have changed. > I liker the fact that the Hin are a bit different from those of other > worlds.. > The Halflings of FR really suck (pardon the immature expression) > > Haavard Faanes I actually like the name Hin, even if it is mentioned every sentence. But I wasn't moaning about the Hin being tough, it was the Hin being munchkin that I found a bit unbelievable... And the hin still seemed like the cutesy type, just that if you littered in the Shires you'd get jumped by a horde of 36th lvl MU's who'd been hiding from the Alphatians.... And if you want really cool halflings...go for the Dark Sun ones...now that's cute :) - -- Gordon McCormick <*> gmccormi@cs.strath.ac.uk http://www.strath.ac.uk/~aau95370/index.html ------------------------------ From: Haavard Roenne Faanes Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 16:15:50 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] [mystara] Matter (was Re: Hollow Worlds and asteroids.) On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Oeystein H. Lund. wrote: > On Tue, 20 Feb 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > > Death is againts Matters interest i think, though maybe not in a > > philosofical sense. > > Matter favours Law, Law is not stasis, but stability. Change to preserve > > is a conservative motto. > > What do you think? > > > > Haavard Faanes > > Uh oh, I think we're moving into the realm of philosophy again here ;) > Anyway, this time it's fantasy philosophy, so here goes : > > Matter is associated with the element of Earth and is symbolized by the > enduring Mountain - changeless through changes that surround it. The winds > assail it, water lashes it fire flows over it, but the mountain endures > and resists the changes from its true mold that these things would force. > > Time is associated with the element of Water and is symbolized by the > changing and eternal Ocean. Fire shrinks it, air churns it and moves it, > the rocks and shores of the mountin resist it, but in the end it flows > through the changes imposed and the limits described by those to it's > original state. > > Thought is associated with the element of Air, and is symbolized by the > winds. It fans the fires, churns the oceans, but is turned and baulked by > the mountains. Yet though the mountain stays the same, everything around > it changes. > > Energy is associated with the element of Fire, and is symbolized by the > flame. It consumes and combines air and matter to create new kinds of air > and matter, and it flees the change of water, for in time the fire must die. > > That's how I interpret the basic philosophies of the spheres - each > imortal puts his or her personal spin on it of course, but still you see > the core of their thinking. Therefore, Terra of Matter WILL be adamantly > opposed to any change- even seasons if she could get away with it, though > in this she must yield to Time... for they simply flow around her opposition. hmmm... I agree on your interpretation on the philosophies of the spheres. But. Dont you think that this personal spin can go pretty far? Isnt iit more like belonging to a political party (European at least) your own opinions may vary quite a bit from the official view... If not, the Immortals will be reduced to stereotypes, charicatures, and not concient individual beings...wont they? Thats my opinion anyway Haavard Faanes ------------------------------ From: JOEGERBER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:25:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Clerics in Glantri According to mark"Mark fof Amber", EteinnePrince D'Amberville was (is?) not in favor oiff the restictions and persucutioon n of clerics, because he felt it was no different theanthe persucution of mages that the family fled from. IMHO, however, this is probally why how the persucution got started. If we presume that Ththe D'aAmberviellses, the McGAD'Ambervilles, the Klantryes, and the Fenswickinans all came from a Earth-like planteet (France, Scotland, and Britiash Colonial America, respecively),wher e religious forces (clerics) led the persuctuion movment, then a "give 'em a taste of their own medicine" philosophy is understandable. Combine this with a sense of one's own power, and who would need or want clerics>? The policy, of course, had several moral and logical errors, which is why it was changed. (Of course, there a*are* a few people who feel that the old policy was right, just as there were a few New Englander's who felt that some of the women executed *wrere* witches.) Just my take on Glantri and politics, Joe gerber  ------------------------------ From: JOEGERBER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:33:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Famous NPCs. Synn, shrs about forthcoming MAs and NAs; if you would rather be surprised, avoid this section! General News Negotiations between Virgin and the BBC over the renewal of Virgin's license have now terminated unsuccessfully. The NAs and the MAs will both conclude in May 1997. Beginning in June, BBC Books will begin publishing two new lines of Doctor Who books in a similar vein. Past NA/MA authors have already been approached by BBC Books to write for the new lines. Whether the BBC Books novels will maintain the more mature vision of Doctor Who favored by Virgin is unknown. Due to copyright issues, however, it is almost certain that the BBC novels will contain no links to the Virgin stories. Note that Virgin still hopes to negotiating a non-exclusive license with the BBC which will permit them to continue publishing Doctor Who fiction in some form. A series of novels featuring Benny as the main character is being seriously contemplated. NA Notes >From Warchild onwards most of this year's book have the theme of ir powers is Dragon Sight (or Dragon Eyes I don't have the book in front of me.) This power allows the dracologist to see through any polymorph, disguise, or illusion that any dragon uses to mask it's appearance as long as the Dragon has fewer HD then the dracologist. (Jagger is 24th level, Synn has 20 HD). Now Synn has Jagger charmed (again how long would a 24th level mage with an 18 int really stay charmed?), so he's not suspecting anything and has no reason to think she's anything other then what she pretends to be. However, Jagger is evil, and very powerful and those types aren't known for their trusting streaks. Even if he doesn't use the power directly on her, isn't it really only a matter of time before his gaze falls on Synn while he's using the power? (I'd have to imagine Synn wouldn't be the first dragon to try to disguise himself/herself to destroy the High Dracologist. Evil dragons aren't famous for enjoying being controlled, and seeing their powers immitated, by humans.) He can use the power 2 or 3 times a day with an almost 90% chance of success, so he'd probably use it whenever anything suspicious occurs around him, or when he suspects an ambush. The white wolf (whose name escapes me right now) even discovered that she is a dragon. Wouldn't a simple, "Hey Jagger, She's a dragon" peek his interest enough to look at her a second time? If only to prove his fellow prince wrong. (Of course he may not know that Jagger is the High Dracologist, but Jagger strikes me as the kind of mage who enjoys showing off his Draconic powers.) It just seems to me that whoever created the subplot about Jagger and Synn seriously underestimated the most powerful mage detailed in Glantri (second to Ettienne.) And without Jagger under her control, Synn's just not that impressive. According to the Timelines Synn's controlled Jagger for years now (like he's never been hit with a detect charm, dispel magic, or made a saving throw in all that time? What kind of General of all Glantri's Armies doesn't have at least one foul magic cast on him that he needs to have dispelled?) Synn isn't a great villian because of her abilities, she's a great villian cause those around her are apparently fools (or are being treated that way). Any ideas? - -Bob (And yes, the "Just say her powers are immortal level and there's no real problem" solution had occured to me, but then there's someone running around Glantri hurling Immortal level magics and I think the other Immortals would be putting a stop to that quickly.) - ---------------------------------------------------------- Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence, Inc. E-mail: Kaelin@natural.com 725 Concord Ave. Phone: (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge, Ma. 02138 WWW: USA - ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 22:34:38 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Famous NPCs. At 12.05 12/03/96 +0100, you wrote: >On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, Shelby Michlin wrote: > >> > yep...Bargle the infamous..how could i forget him. Never Ever kill him off >> :) >> >> ????Bargle???? >> >> Shelby >> >Bargle the Infamous, former mage of the Black Eagle barony >Alltime badguy who is now in Sind i belive, after he betrayed the Black >Eagle Baron of Karameikos. Bargle is featured in several scenrios, and in >some adventure ideas too, where he plays the role of the nemesis villain. >Never heard of him? > Wasn't he in Esterhold helping a local King against the alphatians (PWA3, I think) ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 22:36:36 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatian Council and wizard levels. At 09.11 12/03/96 +0000, Gordon McCormick wrote: >But I'd agree that so many high level MU's in the one place, especially when compared >with, say, Glantri, is a bit out of proportion. So how to solve the problem? Use the >old Wrath of the Immortals. All these messages about 1000 36th level MU made me think at another place where there is an high magical concentration: Honor Island. Far smaller than Glantri or Alphatia, but with the highest density of spellcasters per square km (or mile): 2000 of them in 10 sq. miles. Not many of high level, but almost all above name level (10th level at 25 years !). So, still amazed by the 1000 of the Alphatian Council ? BTW: Gaz4 states that the Honor Islanders come from an Alphatia subject island southeast of the Isle of Dawn. The Alatians ? Bellisaria ? They are working with the plane of Fire, maybe they're are Flaems ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: "Nightshade" Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 21:21:30 AST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Synn (Was:Famous NPCs.) > How long can she really continue to masquerade as a human around Jagger? > Jagger is the High Dracologist, and one of their powers is Dragon Sight (or > Dragon Eyes I don't have the book in front of me.) This power allows the > dracologist to see through any polymorph, disguise, or illusion that any > dragon uses to mask it's appearance as long as the Dragon has fewer HD then > the dracologist. (Jagger is 24th level, Synn has 20 HD). I have always seen Synn as the first Night Dragon, and thus covered under the servitor status in the Codex of the Immortals (ie. Exalted status, immunity to mortal detection, enhanced magic) - just like the example (name?), the first minotaur. > The white wolf (whose name escapes me right now) even discovered that she > is a dragon. Wouldn't a simple, "Hey Jagger, She's a dragon" peek his > interest enough to look at her a second time? If only to prove his fellow > prince wrong. (Of course he may not know that Jagger is the High > Dracologist, but Jagger strikes me as the kind of mage who enjoys showing > off his Draconic powers.) Actually he does, only when fighting dragons - not a common occurance. Among the other nobles the Princes tend to be rather cagey about their particular abilities - most of them have something to hide (lichdom, vampiredom, lycanthropy, elven heritage, dragon magic, etc.) > Any ideas? > > -Bob > > (And yes, the "Just say her powers are immortal level and there's no real > problem" solution had occured to me, but then there's someone running > around Glantri hurling Immortal level magics and I think the other > Immortals would be putting a stop to that quickly.) Immortals may not be so hasty to throw their weight around after the War. Also, they might not see an Exalted creature working magic as a violation of the Code (since they are not truely immortal - the godlike thing to do in this case is to divinely send heroes [candidates?] to kill the offending creature - something Synn seems to have a great deal of experience with (Voyage of the Princess Ark)). HICKEY MATTHEW St.Thomas University Fredericton, N.B., Canada Email GNKGP@StThomasU.ca ------------------------------ From: tgm@rhein.iam.uni-bonn.de Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 19:17:19 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Famous NPCs. > -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > > > -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > > > Date: Sunday, 10-Mar-96 06:56 PM > > > > From: Haavard Roenne Faanes \ Internet: (hoc@nvg.unit.no) > > To: Shelby Michlin \ Internet: (shelby7@ix.netcom.com) > > > > Subject: Re: [Mystara] Elminster, and famous NPCs. > > > Anyone else come to mind? > > > yep...Bargle the infamous..how could i forget him. Never Ever kill him off > :) > -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- > > ????Bargle???? > > Shelby ;-) I thought this the most known NPC in the world ... The very first encounter with an unpredictable NPC mage for every D&D-player. Bye, - -- Thomas (tgm) Ackermann | G i b GATES | DOS* |Great minds tja ;-) Tel. 0228/73-7773 | 631369 | k e i n e | WIN* |discuss ideas (e-mail: tgm@rhein.iam.uni-bonn.de) | C h a n c e ! | WIN95|-------------- - -----------------------------------------------------------------|Average minds mail a sole "help" and/or "add discuss-l" line (in mail-body) to |discuss events listserv@math.uni-bonn.de to be added to a list were you can |-------------- talk about non-GURPS related things with people from GURPSnet-L |Small minds - -----------------------------------------------------------------|discuss people ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #80 **************************** From: owner-mystara-digest To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #81 Reply-To: mystara Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, 13 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 081 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tgm@rhein.iam.uni-bonn.de Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 20:56:51 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatian Council and wizard levels. > I don't think WotI was to change D&D into AD&D since I think that happened about 2 > years later. I think the main thing WotI did was to curtail Alphatia's power. The 1000 > wizards and others wouldn't really be capable of surviving firstly the sinking of > Alphatia, or even the week without magic. How many of them would be like Eriadna and > on potions of longevity? I'd guess most of them, and used WotI as a handy way of > getting rid of an empire that just wasn't a nice place to play in. We did have one > campaign there (well, it lasted about 12 adventures, dunno if that's a campaign :) ) > very cool but there's no sense of danger from the wilderness, mainly because there > isn't any. Alphatia seemed too tamed for my liking. Also too big, it should've swamped > Glantri if it hadn't been for the fact that everyone in Alphatia is so apathetic. Why *did* they produce WoTI then? They already had an existing *good* (better) product: The Golden Set of Immortal Rules ... They had to create more simple rules, to be able to fit the rules from the Cyclopedia, which works with this simple "minor, major, ... immortal" stuff. > Anyway, just my two pence, and another chance to waffle :) > > (hmmm, GURPS Mystara? Need to look into that, I dunno if I want realism though :) :) ) ;-) Sadly, this does not (yet, Hunter?????) exist ... Bye, - -- Thomas (tgm) Ackermann | G i b GATES | DOS* |Great minds tja ;-) Tel. 0228/73-7773 | 631369 | k e i n e | WIN* |discuss ideas (e-mail: tgm@rhein.iam.uni-bonn.de) | C h a n c e ! | WIN95|-------------- - -----------------------------------------------------------------|Average minds mail a sole "help" and/or "add discuss-l" line (in mail-body) to |discuss events listserv@math.uni-bonn.de to be added to a list were you can |-------------- talk about non-GURPS related things with people from GURPSnet-L |Small minds - -----------------------------------------------------------------|discuss people ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 21:22:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] What the Hell is a GURPS? On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote: > On Mon, 11 Mar 1996 tgm@rhein.iam.uni-bonn.de wrote: > > GURPS Mystara > Im trying to convert my D&D campaing into GURPS. > any experience others would want to share, is appreciated. Just the other day I posted to r.g.f.dnd a section of an AD&D->GURPS net.book that I have been working on. It is only on converting preexisting characters, but I also have a rough clerical magick system. If anyone cares, and does not have newsgroup access, feel free to drop me an e-line and I'll mail ti to ya'. Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your world is dying, a shell of existence whose time has come to an end. I am here to show you rebirth, an evolution of being. The fact that millions shall die is of no consequence" - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tiamat, _Darkglory_ ------------------------------ From: Shane Blake Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:47:21 +1100 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Becoming a member of the list HIya...a friend of mine is on the mystara mailing list, this is how i got this address I was wondering how i could join the mailing list, and if any others were running, any help would be appreciated, just email me, don't clatter the list up with replies :) email address is: srblake@deakin.edu.au ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 03:49:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ed Greenwood.. and Elminster. On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Gordon McCormick wrote: > I actually like the name Hin, even if it is mentioned every sentence. But I > wasn't moaning about the Hin being tough, it was the Hin being munchkin that I > found a bit unbelievable... > > And the hin still seemed like the cutesy type, just that if you littered in the > Shires you'd get jumped by a horde of 36th lvl MU's who'd been hiding from the > Alphatians.... That's not the Hin being munchkin, that's Ed Greenwood being munchkin ;) I define munchkin not by the power of the individual, group, or party, by the way, but the challenge the players face - Thus Ed and Elminster are hopeless munchkins - Elmister is a semi-demigod who's ALSO the equivalent of a Mystaran level 40 mage, a psionic Grandmaster, a Spellfire hurler, an accompliced warrior and a ranger. His enemies have leaders who aren't competent enough to tie their own bootlaces, much less lead anything. Now does that sound like he's being challenged to you ? If anyone at all competent had been in charge of any of the 'nastybadevilguys' groups in Forgotten Realms there wouldn't be any point in Elminster trying to protect anything - even the Mage of Shadowdale can only be in one place at a time (well, okay, I bet he *could be in multiple places at once, given how he's written up as the invincible overmind, but...) and the only thing you need to do is to take out his support bases in co-ordinated strikes. Thrash one, have him repulse the attack on another, he teleports to the trashed one, and while he's moaning over the fate of his cremated friends the other places gets thrashed. Scratch one invincible sage ;) Actually, this isn't so much a problem with Elminster as with certain kinds of heroic fiction in general - they've got an overabundance of idiot plots - they only work if the heroe's opponents are total idiots ;) [James Blish used that term a lot to describe some of the plots of Star Trek, the original series, and most of the plots in Star Trek, The next generation - and he's a writer for both shows ;) ] One of the most hated bad guys IMC isn't very powerful compared to the group as a whole, although individual Pc's might find themselves slighly overmatched. Thing is, he *never, ever* stands and fights. He runs away as soon as anyone comes within shooting distance ;) Of course, if they could just find that one piece of evidence to give to the king they could have their fellow noble up on charges - but so far they have no *proof*, only personal testimony and suspicions. Nothing they can take to their common liege lord, for fear of losing their credibility ;) Compared to such organizations as the Zhentarim or the Red Wizards though, he's a weakling in terms of magic and brainpower both... So how come none of them use their resources ? > > And if you want really cool halflings...go for the Dark Sun ones...now that's > cute :) Oooh, yes ;) (Daddy, can I have the hand ? I think the hand's the best part on elves !) ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 15:01:37 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Printing press An article in last Dragon Magazine made me remind an old doubt about Mystara: does it exist the printing press on our beloved fantasy world ? IMC Glantrians, Alphatians and Darokininan surely have it, although books are still a rarity. What about your campaigns ? BTW: if the PWA is really published by a Thyatian wizard named Prospero (it's written in Joshuan Almanac) so the printing press should exist also in Thyatis, I think. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 15:01:32 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Synn (Was:Famous NPCs.) At 16.02 12/03/96 -0500, Robert Kaelin wrote: >Now Synn has Jagger charmed (again how long would a 24th level mage with an >18 int really stay charmed?), so he's not suspecting anything and has no >reason to think she's anything other then what she pretends to be. How long ? Not much, 8 hours according to RC (if the "charme" is a normal one). >However, Jagger is evil, and very powerful and those types aren't known for >their trusting streaks. Even if he doesn't use the power directly on her, >isn't it really only a matter of time before his gaze falls on Synn while >he's using the power? (I'd have to imagine Synn wouldn't be the first >dragon to try to disguise himself/herself to destroy the High Dracologist. Jaggar evil ? Why ? I think he is one of the kindest princes in Glantri, at least before Synn charmed him. You can say that Brannart McGregor, or Morphail, or Vlaardoren are evil, but not Jaggar. >Evil dragons aren't famous for enjoying being controlled, and seeing their >powers immitated, by humans.) Every dragon (good or evil) doesn't enjoy being controlled, and seeing his powers imitated, by humans. >The white wolf (whose name escapes me right now) even discovered that she >is a dragon. Wouldn't a simple, "Hey Jagger, She's a dragon" peek his >interest enough to look at her a second time? If only to prove his fellow >prince wrong. (Of course he may not know that Jagger is the High >Dracologist, but Jagger strikes me as the kind of mage who enjoys showing >off his Draconic powers.) > I don't think he shows off his Draconic powers to everyone, and probably everyone who saw his powers (be it human, dragon or other monster) can tell it no more. IMC Jaggar alter-ego Urkvarth once saved the life to my PC using also his draconic powers, but the PC where unconcious at the time. I tried to let them note strange wounds on the monsters, but they didn't pay much attention to my words. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, goblinslayer & smith in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 ************** ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:43:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatian Council and wizard levels. I remember the first time my own players heard tell of the council of 1000 36th-level wizards and the Empire of Alphatia. They had not yet reached name level, but had done some adventuring in Glantri and Wendar. The met Purda Blue in a pub in Klantyre (who was disguised as a renegade male Alphatian at the time - don't ask), and when she told them, the response was stunned disbelief. Then they wanted to know if I was kidding or if this was actually in the game. I told them that this was no kidding (and had some of the NPCs verify that they had heard of this before). For the first time since running into a band of kobolds in a first level dungeon, they were scared. It augmented the campaign in that they tread more carefully for quite a while thereafter (who knew what other horrors the world held?). Years later, they have now visited Alphatia as ambassadors of Glantri (three guesses what they did there) and it was much easier for me to produce the feeling of awe and dread appropriate to that setting. I think players who refuse to believe this instantly picture themselves being ATTACKED by 1000 (or 100, or even 10) of these 36th level mages. As we know, this is not how things work in Alphatia (until late in WotI anyway - guys if you're reading this, you've guessed it was coming anyway). Jim Sahlas ------------------------------ From: "D.J. Sahlas" Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:08:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Re: D&D Sage (fwd) (A few months ago a was suddenly inspired to write a brief article about the history of the D&D world of Mystara. It's been collecting dust in my e-mail account, but I re-discovered it yesterday and now humbly offer it to the mailing list for feedback: Early in the history of role-playing games, when there was only one type of D&D, there were various supplements (Blackmoor, Greyhawk, etc.). Gary Gygax used Greyhawk as the setting for the advanced game, and the first revision of the original game consisted of a blue boxed set with a dragon on the cover. This set used chits instead of dice. Modules that were published around this time included early versions of B1 (In Search of the Unknown), B2 (The Keep on the Borderlands), and B3 (The Palace of the Silver Princess). With the publication of the two subsequent boxed sets (both with covers illustrated by Erol Otus) the original game began using polyhedron dice and two classic expert-level adventures, X1 (The Isle of Dread) and X2 (Castle Amber, or Chateau d'Amberville). The original basic modules were revised and published again, along with B4 (The Lost City). Accessories were limited to PC record sheets, Dungeon Geomorphs, and Monster and Treasure assortments. The first major revolution of the game, marked by the publication of 5 boxed sets (all with covers illustrated by Larry Elmore), a plethora of modules, and a number of new accessories, occurred when the advanced game was introducing Dragonlance and the world of Krynn. In the original game, the 5 phases were Basic (levels 1-3), Expert (4-14), Companion (15-25), Master (26-36), and Immortals. 6 more basic modules (B5-B10) were introduced, along with 8 new expert modules (X3-X10), 6 companion modules (CM1-CM6), three master modules (M1-M3) and an immortal level module (IM1). The AC line of accessories was begun (AC1-AC9). There were also several "solo" adventures that were published at this time, including 2 "magic ink" adventures (MSOLO1 and 2, one basic and one expert), BSOLO1 (The Ghost of Lion Castle), and XSOLO1 and 2. CM5 was also a solo adventure for a high-level magic-user. More unique ideas included two "one-on-one" adventures (O1 and O2) for 1 DM and 1 player, in a tournament style, as well as the hard-to-find XL1 adventure (detailing the Historic quest for the Heartstone of several characters featured as TSR action figures and in the TSR saturday morning cartoon). The end of this stage of the development of the game was marked by the re-introduction of Blackmoor (modules DA1-DA4), set, appropriately enough, in the ancient past of the Known World setting of the various modules. In 1987, TSR began publishing the highly-acclaimed gazetteer series. These included 12 highly-detailed descriptions of the nations of the Known World, as well as a boxed set (Dawn of the Emperors) describing the Empires of Thyatis and Alphatia. This roughly corresponded with the introduction of the Forgotten Realms in the advanced game. Several other modules and accessories were published during this time, including B11-12, X11-13, CM7-9, M4-5, IM2-3, and the new DDA line (DDA1-4) with the first two describing adventures set in GAZ1 (The Grand Duchy of Karameikos) and the second two in Thyatis. New accessories included AC10-11 as well as the new creature crucible line (PC1-3) detailing the lives and cultures of various demi-human (and stranger) races. Material that was re-issued at this time were the first 9 basic modules (in a composite adventure booklet B1-9), as well as the PC record sheets. The end of this stage of development was marked by the introduction of The Hollow World setting (within the interior of the Known World), although 2 more gazetteers were subsequently published (GAZ13 and 14). 3 Hollow World accessories, and 4 modules (a 3 part epic, as well as one stand-alone adventure) were published. At this point, the rules from the 4 boxed sets were collected together in one volume (the Rules Cyclopedia), and the Immortal rules were re-issued together with a campaign time-line of epic scope, spanning the Known World, in the "Wrath of the Immortals" boxed set. A trilogy set in Karameikos "The Penhaligon Trilogy" was also published, to generally poor reviews. At around the same time, with the increasing complexity of the original game, TSR marketed a simplified, easy-to-get-started version of the rules in three large boxed sets that were generally not well received by dedicated players of the Known World. This setting (Thunder Rift) will not be discussed further, except to mention that with the re-issue of the DM screen, a mini-adventure allowing PCs to enter the Known World from Thunder Rift, was included. This accessory was soon followed by a re-issue of AC9 (Creature Catalog). The Known World, renamed "Mystara" in the Rules Cyclopedia, reached full maturation with a series of articles by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine ("The Voyage of the Princess Ark"). This was followed by a regular installment ("The Known World Grimoire") which did not last as long. By this point, the publication of several "Challenger Series" of accessories marked the final stage of the game (including PC 4 "Night Howlers", the Champions of Mystara boxed set, and two almanacs AC1010 and AC1011). With the conversion of the world of Mystara into the second edition advance game, the D&D game came full circle. Further discussion of the game goes beyond the scope of this article. Jim Sahlas P.S. feel free to distribute this account, although a modified version may appear in Dragon magazine at some point in the near future P.P.S. any questions? contact me ------------------------------ From: "Oeystein H. Lund." Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:23:14 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Synn (Was:Famous NPCs.) On Wed, 13 Mar 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 16.02 12/03/96 -0500, Robert Kaelin wrote: > >Now Synn has Jagger charmed (again how long would a 24th level mage with an > >18 int really stay charmed?), so he's not suspecting anything and has no > >reason to think she's anything other then what she pretends to be. > > How long ? Not much, 8 hours according to RC (if the "charme" is a normal one). 8 hours until he gets a new saving throw - but probabilities say that with a level 24 saving throw he'll throw it off within a day . Not terribly useful for Synn's purposes, neh ? > > >However, Jagger is evil, and very powerful and those types aren't known for > >their trusting streaks. Even if he doesn't use the power directly on her, > >isn't it really only a matter of time before his gaze falls on Synn while > >he's using the power? (I'd have to imagine Synn wouldn't be the first > >dragon to try to disguise himself/herself to destroy the High Dracologist. > > Jaggar evil ? Why ? I think he is one of the kindest princes in Glantri, at > least before Synn charmed him. You can say that Brannart McGregor, or > Morphail, or Vlaardoren are evil, but not Jaggar. Prince Jaggar Von Drachenfels is most certainly not an evil man ! Where does this idea come from ? He's one of the few of the Glantrian princes who hold to some standard of honour, as opposed to 'might makes right, and I have the might' that the majority of the rest believe in. > >prince wrong. (Of course he may not know that Jagger is the High > >Dracologist, but Jagger strikes me as the kind of mage who enjoys showing > >off his Draconic powers.) > > > I don't think he shows off his Draconic powers to everyone, and probably > everyone who saw his powers (be it human, dragon or other monster) can tell Umm, one of the points of the Seven secret crafts is precicely that they ARE secret ! It's not something you go around revealing to anyone- if you want to keep your standing in the craft. No matter who or what you are, even the High master... If things work out for you as it did IMC, the other players will wind up learning more about the crafts from their enemies than from the pc who's initiated into the secrets ;) One thought I've been wondering about for a while now - is there any special problem, apart from the political, of having one person being a member of more than one craft ? I would think that having a 4rth-circle witch/elementalist or any other combo would be possible, but perhaps a bit excessive ;) Of course, this would cost an awful lot of xp :) ------------------------------ From: Robert Kaelin Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:37:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Synn (Was:Famous NPCs.) >Jaggar evil ? Why ? I think he is one of the kindest princes in Glantri, at >least before Synn charmed him. You can say that Brannart McGregor, or >Morphail, or Vlaardoren are evil, but not Jaggar. According to the Glatnri Boxed Set (and I admit to not looking him up in the Gaz for a long while) he is Lawful Evil. He rules his principality with brutal efficiency, not caring about his citizens as long as they continue to be efficient and work hard. (And when he does care about him it's only to make them work harder.) Maybe in Basic D&D terms he'd be neutral, he's not "Let's go kill babies" evil, but he's evil in the sense that it wouldn't even phase him to watch a few innocent bystanders die if it meant defending himself, his Principality, and Glantri (in that order I suspect). He's not the kind of guy you'd want your daughter to marry (but he's probably the perfect general of the armies of Glantri). When you consider the other princeses/princesses are Night Dragons, Vampires, Liches and kobolds he probably is one of the kindest princes, but that's not really saying much. He's kind because he hasn't handed over his humanity, yet anyway. (He is one of the good guys, but only because it's his duty to defend Glantri...you wouldn't want to get on his bad side, or be opposed to him.) The reason I like Jagger so much is that he's one of the few Human princes. He shows that a powerful mage doesn't need gimmics and crutches (like lichdom, were-wolfdom, an Immortal Identity, and/or vampirehood) to be interesting and effective. That's why I think it's a shame he's treated like some pawn (no better then Kol really) in Synn's plot, he's too good for that. >> >I don't think he shows off his Draconic powers to everyone, and probably >everyone who saw his powers (be it human, dragon or other monster) can tell >it no more. > >IMC Jaggar alter-ego Urkvarth once saved the life to my PC using also his >draconic powers, but the PC where unconcious at the time. I tried to let >them note strange wounds on the monsters, but they didn't pay much attention >to my words. Jagger is known for enjoying leading his forces into battle personally (usually astride his pegasus.) He's also known for leading massive Dragon hunting expeditions. Unless he's managed to kill off every soldier, mage, fellow student, teacher, and witness who's ever seen him in battle (and those draconic powers are pretty hard to miss) someone has to know, and considering the massive war Glantri just went through probably a lot of someones know. Synn's been seen in Dragon form by what, 2,3,4 people so far, in only a few years; how many people have seen Jagger use his powers in his almost 30 years of being a Dracologist? (And his father was a dracologist before him so some people who knew about him would just assume it.) Anyway, if Jagger is SO careful that no one has ever seen him use his powers and live to tell the tale, then it is a tremendous folly to assume he was so careless as to become a slave to a dragon for a few years. And, of course, none of Jaggers friends (the one who makes all the golems for him..damn I should bring my books with me to work for these names...) or his family have noticed anything odd about his sudden interest in Synn and bothered to cast a detect magic or any kind of diviniation on him? I guess I'm the only one who just doesn't get this. (Is the High Dracologist really so feeble that he can't even realize the fact he's being controlled by a dragon over a span of a few years? ) As you can probably tell, Jagger is one of the most prominent NPC's in my campaign and it just seems everyone views Synn as "What can Synn do next" and doesn't seem to spend any time at all thinking "What does Jagger do?" Treating a 24th level mage (and that's 24th in AD&D which is like 32-36 in OD&D) like a pawn is just cheesy. Incredibly cheesy. - -Bob p.s. Oh ya, one other thing that I forgot to add to the last note. If Jagger invoked his 1st circle power "Protection from Dragons" which provents any dragon he's not attacking from affecting him by spells or by physical attacks, wouldn't that break the charm? - ---------------------------------------------------------- Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence, Inc. E-mail: Kaelin@natural.com 725 Concord Ave. Phone: (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge, Ma. 02138 WWW: USA - ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Sir George Anonymous Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:19:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Replies to Digests #60-80 Hi all, It's time for me to de-invoke my semi-lurker status (as Leroy so eloquently put it) and give you my musings on recent list events, threads, etc. OK, OK, I also wanted to announce to all of my friends on the list that I'm a proud father to be, and that my wife is due in October. Now she wants her character to be pregnant too -- and continue adventuring (at least for a while). Any thoughts on that? Oh well, on with the show. RE: Language in Glantri from everyone under the sun Just in case I wasn't clear in my previous post concerning the Glantrian language, I consider Glantrian to be the Flaemish dialect of Alphatian. IMC, Thyatian is the "common" tongue of Glantri. RE: Church of Traladara in Norwold from Oeystein H. Lund [description of the actions of Boryis Sergeinov snipped] > Will the traldar church be interested? I think so. What will they do > thaough ? There's a distict possibility that Surdeig will do nothing, or > perhaps even go along with the plan - it's designed to make their > rulership of the lands they hold in fealty more effective, after all. > What will the Immortals think ? I don't think any of them will be > particularily pleased, but would they be angry ? As the Archbishop of the Church of Traladara in the area, Surdeig is the reining authority for the Church. If he were to go along with Boryis, then almost any priest in the area would surely follow his example. However, Patriarch Nikelnevich in Specularum is not likely to be pleased. Given the current (since AC970) state of political affairs in Karameikos, he would probably want to keep the Church "untainted" by other immortals in order to retain his position as the overall head of the Church. This could very well cause a split within the Church, possibly leading to a small war. Certain members of the Church of Karameikos would probably try to fan the flames of such a war in order to further weaken the Church of Traladara. I don't think the Immortals will bee too angry because it will enhance their status in Norwold, thus increasing their base of followers. All in all, I think this is a very interesting plot line. What is the current year in your campaign? I'd be interested in hearing about further developments. They'd make great "news items" in my campaign. RE: Krakatos and Telden from Fabrizio Paoli Thanks for the pointer to the information on Krakatos and Telden. It was exactly what I was looking for. Does anyone know exactly when Telden disappeared? I don't recall his death being mentioned in the "Distinguished Dead" section of any of the almanacs. When is the last time he is mentioned as being present somewhere? RE: Mystara FTP Site from Daniel Boese > ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest Thanks for that tidbit. I didn't know this was available on the web or by ftp. And since digest #78 never showed up here, I'm doubly glad to see it. As a side note, now that Leroy has set up the files, the address ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-l points to the text files that are downloadable. Thanks for that Leroy, great job. While I'm throwing around WWW addresses, Fabrizio Paoli has a synopsis of his campaign on his web site. The URL is http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349 Personally, I like to see what other people are doing in their campaigns. It gives me good ideas, even if I only present the information as "news items" to my PC's. RE: Module B3 from Cthulhudrew > and > Thendara the protector from B3(?)- Palace of the Silver Princess (unless > that is only in the B1-9 series and not the original module...?) Module B3 only called him/her/it "the protector", and had a picture of a transparent *male* being on the back cover. B1-9 named the protector Thendara, and WotI said that Thendara was an alias for Ordanna. RE: Poll: Crystal Spheres vs Open Space from Daniel Boese I know I'm a bit late for the poll, but here is what I do. I'm an AD&Der, so I subscribe to the Planescape model of the outer planes. I use the Spelljammer crystal spheres, but have yet to have the issue come up in game play. IMC, every campaign world and variation thereof is in its own crystal sphere. In other words, one sphere has my version of Mystara, another my version of Oerth, yet another my version of Toril, and a fourth my version of Krynn. Still others contain your and/or someone else's versions of those four worlds, my Traveller campaign, 20th century earth, etc. Contrary to the SJ boxed set, I consider each crystal sphere to be a separate prime material plane. Or perhaps they're all layers of the same plane. To a clueless prim it doesn't really matter. RE: Arik, Cretia, and Forsetta from strawberryJAMM > Second, I have kept the current information on Cretia, Forsett and > Arik as posted. I have noticed some comments about Arik surfacing, but > none about Cretia or Forsett -- is everyone happy with the information > as provided? Not quite. I do have a few questions and comments about Arik when I get a chance (soon, I promise). As to Forsetta and Cretia, has anyone done specialty priests for them yet? Has anyone checked out the description of Forseti in the Norse section of Legends and Lore for a few more ideas? Are you going to re-post the finalized versions? RE: Tainted Mytara from Haavard Faanes > all this ad&d stuff has tainted the > world. GRRRRRRRRR. Regardless of what anyone else does with Mystara, *your* campaign world is not tainted unless *you* taint it. It's the old "use what you like, discard what you don't" argument. I've been converting Mystara to AD&D for 15 years and don't have any problems with it. RE: Immortal Musings from Cthulhudrew > 2) Perhaps the immortals that are concerned with Mystara reflect only the > barest number of immortals in the universe. Certainly, some of them seem > to have less interest in the affairs of Mystara than others, and it is > not inconceivable that many roam the cosmos, doing their own thing. Personally, I use this view of the immortals because it fits in well with the Planescape model. RE: Limbo Time from Igor Betti > My solution is: there exist many limbo, one for each time instant, so > when a character dies he goes in limbo whit every person who dies in the > same moment, and his limbo is different from the limbo where goes who > dies after or before him. I have two other possible solutions. The first is to change the formula so that the amount of time which passes in Limbo is proportional to that which passes in the campaign world. This is the easy way out. If you don't like that, I remember reading on rec.games.frp.misc last year about a campaign in which the characters went through various time portals and ended up together with differing subjective realities. Each one thought the local ruler was someone different. It's harder on the DM, but makes for an interesting plot twist. The AD&D Chronomancer supplement is no help, but maybe the GURPS Time Travel supplement has some useful insight. Does anyone on the mailing list have that one? RE: Why did Mystara die? from Andrea Stadtfeld > Does anyone know exactly, why they dropped the line? Here's one for the Mystara FAQ. The Mystara AD&D line was dropped because of poor marketing and design leading to poor sales. The "new" version of Mystara was designed as an introductory world for beginning groups. I too was excited by the prospect, and was sorely disappointed by the "kiddie" graphics and useless CD. In the Glantri and Karameikos boxed sets, the only changes that were made from the original gazetteer versions of these countries were those specifically dictated by WotI, the PWA's, and the conversion to AD&D. No thought was given to other ways in which the two countries might have evolved. Just a few examples for Karameikos: Why wasn't Town Mistress Sascia of Luln ever Knighted? Will Lady Penhaligon ever receive a Baronial title? What is the current (revised) political situation in Specularum? In the Church of Karameikos? Is Alia still the thief-king? Because issues like this were ignored in the re-releases of Karameikos and Glantri, these boxed sets were virtually useless to gamers using the gazetteers. RE: Traveller and Mystara from Shelby Michlin > They could even take a > chunk of the ore with them, and having learned magic, shake up my Traveller > campaign someday. One of my PC's is collecting ingredients necessary for a mage to create a powerful magical sword for him. One of the ingredients is "the ripples of change from across the planes." He already has a banner representing the combined forces of the Pomarj from Oerth, and I plan for him to eventually get a shoulder patch from a Domain of Deneb Navy starman. There is a quaint little TL 2 planet in the DoD (Asgard, Spinward Marches 1519) which the characters will travel to by magical gate.... RE: Mystara Interacting with Other TSR Worlds from Mischa E Gelman > Uhh... most other TSR worlds could not interact with Mystara and if they > did, it would weaken the world...yes, even kender and gully dwarves would > weaken it How? I have never used kender or gully dwarves in my campaign, but why can't I? How would it hurt my campaign, or anyone else's for that manner? In what way would Mystara be weakened? RE: FAQ from Leroy Van Camp III and strawberryJAMM [sJ wrote] > I see that it is based on a FAQ for another mailing list (smart that). > However, I was wondering how many people were involved with the creation > and determination of some of the various points. I've noticed that > Mischa made some comments about the validity of a few rules, and I was > wondering how lengthy and how involved the discusions were (if there were > any!) that solidified what is there. Does anyone else think that, now > that there are a lot more list members, the FAQ might deserve to be > discussed some more? [to which LVC3 replied] > Discussion? There wasn't really any discusiion. Using the GURPS > mailing list as a template, I made it all up, based on what I thought was > reasonabe. And this was based partly on the general operating rules of > the 13 or so other mailing lists I am on. > After writing it Sir George Anonymous, one of our semi-lurkers, took > a look at it and made some suggestions. Actually, when Leroy posted it earlier, that was the first time that *I* had seen the revised version of the FAQ. We did this before the formal list was up and running. At that time the mailing list only consisted of about 15 names in the address book of my mailer program. RE: TSR's Mystara Web Page from Mischa E Gelman From what I can tell, unless a lot of people complain to TSR about how "lame" their current site is (their word not mine) nothing else will be done about a Mystara web page. They *have* promised that if they do upgrade their site, we will get a page. RE: Prophecies from Cthulhudrew and Ann Dupuis [Cthulhudrew wrote his interpretation of the prophecies from Joshuan's Almanac to which Ann replied] > Well, you certainly got close to what I was envisioning when > I wrote them! Care to enlighten us a bit more (and also solve the mystery of Gareth)? RE: Familiars Request from Bob Kaelin > Does anyone out there, who's resources are greater than mine, know of any > mage detailed in Mystara that has a familiar? IIRC Mirabilis, the court wizard in the Valley of Haven had a black kitten which could turn into a panther three times per day. RE: Mystara Immortals & Planescape from Andrea Missinato > How do you think oin Mystara Immortals and Planescape? > Have you any ideas on where I can put them on the planes? > Are they similar to Planescape Powers? This question has been debated several times on both this list and the Planescape list. There are those like myself and Leroy (and possibly Bruce) who like the idea, and those vehemently opposed to it. IIRC, someone was flamed horribly on the Planescape list last month for bringing it up. Personally, I view the immortals as powers. There was discussion here in December about where to put the immortals. Try checking out digest issues 22-24. RE: Red Steel Questions from David Melik > Did anyone get those 2 additional Red Steel sets? I haven't got them yet > are they good? > Also, what about the 2nd ed Glantri stuff too? *Two* additional sets? I only know about the main boxed set and the Savage Baronies boxed set. Was there something else? As for the 2nd ed Glantri stuff, do you have the Glantri gazetteer? I so, then see above. If not, then try to get it. It's much less expensive and contains basically the same information. RE: Another Rain of Fire? from Cthuludrew > It comes around > to the whole Blackmoor thing again- will the introduction of science into > the world result in yet another Rain of Fire, or will the inhabitants of > Mystara learn from their mistakes? Hmmm. Interesting question. I would like to think that the immortals would stop things before they progressed too far. After Mark of Amber, it looks like the Old Ones are looking over their shoulders. They don't want to see another WotI fiasco. RE: Alphatian Council from Oeystein H. Lund > Given the overwhelming power of a 36th-level mage and the underwhelming > efficiency of the Empire of Alphatia from CM1 onwards, I've always played > them as deeply divided, and effectively deadlocked. [snip] > Currently, IMC, there's three main factions working in public, and at > least half a dozen shady, semi-secret or conspiratorical groups fighting > it out behind the scenes. Prominents include Empress Loyalists, Alphatia > Millitants, and Uninterested Neutrals (leave everything alone if it > doesn't threaten to interfere with our magic), conspiratorical include > Alphaks Traitors (ANYTHING for power), Crown Prince loyalists (A *woman* > on the throne ? bugger that !), and Legal Beagles ( One nation, one Law. > Down with special privilegies and double standards of justice !) Oooooohhhhhhh. I like this. I've always wondered why so many wizards couldn't just crush their adversaries. Thanks for the ideas. This is now a permanent fixture in my campaign. What else can you tell us about Alphatian politics? RE: Animal Companions from strawberryJAMM > I was wondering how DM's on the list have dealt with the idea of "furry > friends" in their campaigns. I ask because, IMC, there is a PC who has a > dog which he raised from a puppy prior to the start of their adventures > (the character has the 'Animal Training (Dog)' skill) and I'm constantly > finding myself forgetting that the animal is there. I'm in a similar predicament now. One of my PC mages purchased a cat in the last gaming session (it's not a familiar). I completely forgot about its existence thereafter. I use miniatures to mark where the PC's are in relation to each other. I think, starting with the next session, I'm going to use some type of marker for the cat, and determine in advance how it might react to various potential allies and adversaries, and mark that in my encounter descriptions. I think I'm just going to have to treat it as an NPC so I don't forget it. Here's an idea. Put the responsibility of reminding you about the dog onto the shoulders of the player. For example, the player must state that his dog is pacing the perimeter of the camp while the character is standing watch, or else the dog is nowhere to be found when the band of orcs attacks. (He ran off after a rabbit, or wandered away to relieve himself.) RE: Where Are Modules Placed? from various people This is another one for the FAQ. There were quite a few OD&D products that were not actually placed. Some of these were later given a location in B1-9 or in a Bruce Heard Q&A session in Dragon. Perhaps we should compile a list of them and place some of them ourselves. RE: Dual Classed Mystic from various people For those OD&Ders on the list, dual classing is an AD&D option open to humans which lets them stop working on one class, and start working on another. The character no longer gains levels in the old class, and earns no experience for any adventure in which one or more of the old abilities is used. The restriction on the use of skills from the old class is lifted when the character's level in the new class exceeds the level in the old class. IMC, when a human character wants to dual class, he must spend time training for the new class. The amount of time spent is as follows: change time - --------- ---- Pal/Rgr => Pst 0 Pst/Rog/Wiz => Ftr 0 Pst => Rgr 0 Ftr/Rog/Wiz => Pst 1 Pst => Pal 1 Rog/Wiz => Rgr 1 Pst/Ftr/Rgr/Wiz => Rog 1 Wiz => Pal 2 Pst/Ftr/Rgr/Pal/Rog => Wiz 2 Time is the number of d8's to roll for *years*. An additional 1d12 is rolled and added as months, so a priest who wishes to become a wizard would require (((2d8) * 12) + (1d12)) months of training in total. Also, paladins, rangers, and priests must be able to justify, to themselves and their immortals, how the change will help them to spread their faith. If the character later changes to another class, I allow him or her to use *either* of the old classes as the "change from" class on the above chart. I don't use mystics as a class, but as a priest kit. This means that a mystic would be treated as a priest on the above table. Note that the mystic class restrictions mention that if a mystic is expelled from his or her cloister, he or she loses levels at the rate of one per year. I would think that if the mystic could justify the change in the name of spreading the faith, he or she wouldn't be expelled from the cloister and losing levels wouldn't be an issue. This table is derived from my starting age table. I base the starting age of the character on the race/class combination. Comments, suggestions, other ideas? Maybe someone can get some value from this. RE: Bargle from Haavard Faanes and Fabrizio Paoli [HF wrote] > Alltime badguy who is now in Sind i believe, after he betrayed the Black > Eagle Baron of Karameikos. [to which FP replied] > Wasn't he in Esterhold helping a local King against the alphatians (PWA3, I > think) ? I thought he went to the Broken Lands and was "helping" someone there. RE: Mystara and Thunder Rift from Haavard Faanes > Which module had a Thunderrift-Mystara adventure? I believe that would be the DM's screen. RE: Synn from Bob Kaelin and Nightshade [BK wrote] > How long can she really continue to masquerade as a human around Jagger? > Jagger is the High Dracologist, and one of their powers is Dragon Sight (or > Dragon Eyes I don't have the book in front of me.) This power allows the > dracologist to see through any polymorph, disguise, or illusion that any > dragon uses to mask it's appearance as long as the Dragon has fewer HD then > the dracologist. (Jagger is 24th level, Synn has 20 HD). [to which N replied] > I have always seen Synn as the first Night Dragon, and thus > covered under the servitor status in the Codex of the Immortrals (ie. > Exalted status, immunity to mortal detection, enhanced magic) Or perhaps a legendary monster as outlined in one of the Planescape monstrous compendiums. These beasties have powers well beyond their "normal" counterparts. Later, >>> Sir George Anonymous <<< ************************************************************************** ** ** ** There are no Thyatians here. There are no Traladarans. There are ** ** only citizens of Karameikos. - King Stefan Karameikos, AC 1012 ** ** ** ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #81 ****************************