mystara-digest Tuesday, 5 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 279 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Rickard Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 12:11:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chronomancers Yes, Cronomancers have all died off but what special Magics where they into. Im looking to see what The Mystara "Chronomances" are (the magics). Im playing pre WotI, and theAlhatatins are still around. Is there any thing new about Chronomancy that I can throw in to my campaign. (special Magics for Mystara?) Dont tell me........go and buy the book and mix it in yourself. :-) ------------------------------ From: Alad3@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 14:47:02 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality In einer eMail vom 03.11.1996 08:53:41, schreiben Sie: >ROTFL! Actually, Alphak should be a pretty smart guy, he was the ruler >of the Alphatian before they came to Mystara. But after changing into >demon (or what ever it is called by TSR now), does seems to dumb him >up a bit. Well, i guess he's still quite a smart guy, just a little crazy, as he was in his mortaloe life (in DOTE it says something like he had childish fits) Seriously thou, how about this explaination. Perhaps >Morphail was turned into a vampire when he bumped into Alphak in >some outer plane, while doing those quest for power that high level >mages like to do. Alphak turned him into a vampire but didn't really >care where he came from, and it wasn't until few hundred years later >that Alphak bother to check up on his little pawn on Mystara when he >realize he has more interst in this world than he knew before. > > IIRC, it went like this: Alphaks promised Morphail immortality for some kind of help, then turning him into a nosferatu (i.e. immortal, but the way Morphail had imagined). And since Morphail is continually spreading vampirism throughout Glantri (which isn't exactly good for Glantri) I think Alphaks knew quite well what he was doing. Alad3 ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 15:20:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality > > That's the main problem I saw with it myself. However, Alphaks has never > > been portrayed as especially bright.. :) > ROTFL! Actually, Alphak should be a pretty smart guy, he was the ruler > of the Alphatian before they came to Mystara. But after changing into > demon (or what ever it is called by TSR now), does seems to dumb him > up a bit. Well, perhaps turning towards Entropy involved an insanity or two - those rarely, if ever, increase the intellect. And for oD&D, it's still "Fiend", or "Immortal of Entropy", for aD&D it's either "Power", "Demon", or "Evil God". > Seriously thou, how about this explaination. Perhaps > Morphail was turned into a vampire when he bumped into Alphak in > some outer plane, while doing those quest for power that high level > mages like to do. Alphak turned him into a vampire but didn't really > care where he came from, and it wasn't until few hundred years later > that Alphak bother to check up on his little pawn on Mystara when he > realize he has more interst in this world than he knew before. Hm.. sounds reasonable. If nobody picks a hole in it, I think I'll include it in my own campaign.. :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 21:26:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Re: races and classes from OD&D On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Guido Castelletti wrote: > Hi Daniel, > I'm Claudio Castelletti, an Italian role player, I am in > desperate need of all the information to convert all the races and > classes from the OD&D books like the creature crucible series, the > gazzetteers and the Hollow World books to AD&D, could you send me this > information? > I will be grateful to you for eternity. > Thank you very much. Hello, Claudio. I'm afraid that nobody has yet translated all the races and classes to AD&D. However, I'm carbon-copying this reply to the Mystara Mailing List, in the hope that some of the members will be able to help you. For several of the races, you might want to buy the Red Steel boxed set, if you can find it. It includes the Rakasta, Lupin, Tortles, and Aranea. I myself have translated the Hutaakans and Phanaton, my two favorite races, into AD&D player races - I'll forward these to you (and the List, if they want them) in my next message. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 01:16:57 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two reasons to buy Dungeon magazine #62 On Sat, 2 Nov 1996, David Keyser wrote: > Both games treat shadow elves more like drow than shadow elves, but this > could be explained as these elves being followers of Atzanteotl. Hey- that's one that hadn't occurred to me. It also explains why the SE in the first game are hanging around a bunch of humanoids- given that Atzanteotl is a patron of humanoids, of sorts. (I still haven't seen the second game, though I understand you can play a thief in it?) ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 01:11:37 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: When immortals achieved immortality On Sat, 2 Nov 1996, Shawn wrote: > Other immortals include all the ones sort of mentioned in PC2. Like > Grammatron (who sounds a lot like Noumena to me) and the Immortal who > created the gremlins (could be Loki) and the Immortal who created the > Faenare (possibly Ordana) etc etc. I would definitely agree that Grammaton=Noumena. Hadn't thought much about the others, though I've given thought to some of the other immortals (and even 'gods') mentioned in the GAZ's and modules. > Anyone interested? Is this the sort of thing you were thinking about > Cthuludrew to be a part of your project? You got it. :) I can't recall exactly what prompted the whole thing, but I got to thinking about trying to catalogue all the various immortals, and the times they achieved immortality over the aeons. Unfortunately, as you can see, I didn't get around to posting my info this weekend, but definitely sometime this week. There are many obscure immortals running around out there that need a home. :)_ ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 00:55:08 -0700 (MST) Subject: re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Daniel Boese wrote: > > He must have come to Mystara prior to 800 AC. Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany > > is turned into a nosferatu by Alphaks c. 700 AC. > > Well, so much for my vaunted omniscience. :) Heh. No problem. I wouldn't have known myself, except for that Glantri timeline I made- which I will soon post for all to see, after receiving numerous positive responses. :) > Alphaks, after attaining Immortality around 750 BC (a random number), > eventually finds the Flaems wandering through various planes. Around 395 > AC, he senses the Radiance, and sends them there. Several centuries later, > he realizes that the Alphatians are on the same world as the Flaems.. Only problem I have with this, is that the Flaems in Glantri have broken all ties with Alphaks. Hence, the anti- Boldavian sentiment that is prominent among both the houses of Silverston and (I believe) the Vlaardoen house- name of which I can't recall offhand... (heck, I may even be misremembering the sentiments...) ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 01:00:17 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Rob Rickard wrote: > WOW. I thought Alphaks hated the Glantri peaple as much as his own > Alphatatin race. Why would he help Morphail? Marphail was evil, but > did have a small loyality to his people (vampires) in his land in > Glantri. I believe that he 'helped' Morphail simply to satisfy his own sadistic desires. It mentions that Morphail sought immortality, and Alphaks agreed to give it to him, if he would be his agent on Mystara (Glantri in particular). Morphail agreed, and Alphaks cursed him with Nosferatuism. Now Morphail must continue to serve Alphaks as long as he 'lives' in Glantri. > Or is it to spread his Curse all through Grantri?!?!?!? Come to think of it, in regards to a previous post I responded to, maybe Morphail's curse is Alphaks' way of getting back at his former Flaemish allies. After they cast Alphaks out, he vowed revenge, and so when he found them in Glantri, he sent his minion Morphail to put a plague on their lands. > And now who is in charge of Boldavia and the vampires? Is he still? Yessirree bob. He is (according to my information) the first and only prince of Boldavia, as well as one of the single oldest living (well, undead life) inhabitants of Glantri to currently reside there. The oldest would be his older brother Boris (or is that his younger brother...) ------------------------------ From: "Oystein H. Lund" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:04:06 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old Ones On Sat, 2 Nov 1996, Estlor wrote: > > But, what is the Great Barrier? > > Well, in the old gold box Immortal rules it was the Vortex Dimension > that was created to keep the Immortals from heading to the sixth and > higher dimensions. In the newer Codex it still is the Vortex Dimension, > its just that the area it protects doesn't take that whole length, > width, height and so on stuff into play. > -- Which is a pity. But then again, my group and I mostly grew up to become engineers - which might explain why the lot of us just plain liked the Gold Box universal setup a lot better than the Wrath thingy. For one thing, I still think there's a lot more 'meat' to base the character of the reversed-dimension races on, because of the details included about just exactly what the various dimensions relate to in terms of perception. and the 'fact' that the performance of magic relies on the presence of at least one dimension more than the magician is personally capapble of perceiving - 4-dimensional immortals rely on the 5th to power their magics, in a space devoid of it they're reduced to mortal magics -4rth dimension effects.. ;) _______________________________________________________________________ | Oeystein H. Lund ,kj160@hp825.lhg.hib.no | | "Who are we, why are we here ?" | | - Forget the questions, someone gimme another beer. | | "What's the meaning of life, what's the meaning of it all ?" | | -You gotta learn to dance, before they make you crawl. | |_____________________________________________________________________| ------------------------------ From: Rob Rickard Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 14:40:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alignment Priests >One of the PC's in my campaign is a Lawful Good philosopher priest. This >has raised a few questions. >1) Where does the character's spell casting power come from? >2) What are the character's granted powers? >3) What Priestly Function or ceremonies can teh PC perform? - ------------------------------ Hmm, well David, I once had a player that had a cleric character. He worshiped (or thought he worshiped) the planet Mystara. He called her 'Mother Mystara'. He had all his cleric powers and Druid powers. The way that I played it from a DMs point of view was that there was an Immortal that Had the same beliefs that he so the Immortal granted him his Clerical powers. The Immortal played out that it was 'Mother Mystara'. It was a very colorful campaign and the rest of the characters were confused alot from some of the cermony he did. I Also granted a few new "earthly spells" to his list of cleric and druid powers that the Immortal granted (Mother Mystara). The Character would call from the "rock" of Mystara and on more powerful spells the other characters could see 'the power channel to Topaz from Mystaras earthly body' (Topaz was the character) It was one of the better Campaign I every GMed. I must admit some of the rules were created on the fly. This idea could work for you. ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 14:34:30 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. (Was: Jaggar's Draconic Form) On Fri, 1 Nov 1996 TSRBruce@aol.com wrote: > This is why I later made the amendment re. dracologist in the Mystara > Dragons article in DRAGON Magazine. Considering this, naturally Diamond could > not have been the ruler since a very long time, especially in terms of > draconic history. It's possible Diamond's career as a dragon ruler was simply > *interrupted* by the dracologists' rather tactless approach, something > dragons would have wanted to burry away in a dark pit of their racial > history. Speaking of that Dragon article, I have a question for you, Bruce (or anyone else who wants to take a crack at it): In regards to the age limits of dragons, they seem a bit short lived from the info given in the article. I don't recall numbers offhand, but it seems to me that some of the dragons have particularly short lifespans. For my part, I tweaked the numbers a bit- I think I added 10 to whatever die roll used for their ages (ex. 1d20x10- I don't know if this is an actual number or not, but for examples' sake...) Normally this would give an age range of 10-200 years, sort of low for a dragon I'd think. But if you make it (1d20+10)x10, you get a range of 110-300 years. This is what I did for all the ages, and it seems to get a pretty good age range for (what I consider, anyway) seemingly ancient dragon types. (I also modified the ages of the Who's Who dragons in issue #171 in accordance with my changed ages. It's interesting to compare them with the timeline of the Known World, and imagine what they might have been up to as events transpired around them.) Any thoughts, comments, criticisms? > Okay fine -- if you want to stick to mechanical details, cross off the > references to white uniforms (etc), and replace with that with gold. Of > course, he's going to look a bit like Zorro the Gay Blade, but hey, > that's fantasy for you! 8P > Hmm. This raises an interesting question- How does Manuel of the Plains dress? Like the traditional black garbed Zorro? Or like his cousin, Zorro the Gay Blade? Or maybe one of the other de Belcadiz elves substitutes for don (which was it? Carlo?) when he needs to protect his secret identity. Questions, questions... ;) ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 22:27:10 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chronomancers At 12.11 03/11/96 -0500, you wrote: >Yes, Cronomancers have all died off but what special Magics where they >into. Im looking to see what The Mystara "Chronomances" are (the >magics). Im playing pre WotI, and theAlhatatins are still around. Is >there any thing new about Chronomancy that I can throw in to my >campaign. (special Magics for Mystara?) Check Herve's Homepage for more about the Chromancers. http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh/ ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 22:27:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany At 01.00 04/11/96 -0700, you wrote: >Yessirree bob. He is (according to my information) the first and only >prince of Boldavia, as well as one of the single oldest living (well, >undead life) inhabitants of Glantri to currently reside there. The >oldest would be his older brother Boris (or is that his younger brother...) > Oldest, oldest.... you're right. I know this for sure because a few weeks ago one of my PC asked why the older brother wasn't the Prince of Boldavia. Usually it's the older one that gets titles, lands and money... ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: Kaviyd@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:00:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany In a message dated 96-11-04 20:45:29 EST, brizio@lunet.it (Fabrizio Paoli) writes: << I know this for sure because a few weeks ago one of my PC asked why the older brother wasn't the Prince of Boldavia. Usually it's the older one that gets titles, lands and money... >> In Glantri the answer would be, "because he wasn't a Mage". That is the most common reason for the eldest son to be passed over as heir. In the case of Boris and Morphail, the answer would seem to be that Morphail was the founder of the Principality and so the normal rules of inheritance would not apply to him. Boris is currently Morphail's heir-presumptive. ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 23:47:16 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Another Zugzul rant... :) I just had a thought earlier tonight (I know, it's rare but wonderful when it happens... :) There was discussion awhile back about the island of Zyxl, located to the west of the Immortal's Arm. (You may see where I am going with this one...) Zyxl sounds sort of like Zugzul, doesn't it? Perhaps a bastardized version of the Immortal's name- a sort of Aengmor/Oenkmar thingy. Perhaps Zugzul has followers there? On another note, I have been thinking more about good ol' Zug lately. I was thinking that perhaps Z. could have been a name for another immortal, but I'm not so sure any longer. The first thought was Rathanos, as Zugzul is described in DA4 as being of the Sphere of Energy. Only problems are a) the time frame is wrong- Rathanos, having been an Oltec, would have existed contemporaneously with the Blackmoor civilization- and Z. had been active for at least a couple of centuries prior to the rise of that kingdom; b) the Afridhi are a matriarchy, and Rathanos is a noted male chauvinist. Of course, perhaps he once wasn't, but after the failure of the Afridhi matriarchy he became very misogynistic? Other options would, naturally, be Ixion. I don't know how well he fits, though. It mentions that Z. was a mortal man once, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Ixion could very well be the Immortal formerly known as Zugzul. Of course, the big Z. may just as easily be an immortal in his own right, just not terribly popular nowadays. Any suggestions, thoughts, ideas, comments, criticisms, ramblings? ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 01:36:26 PST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Another Zugzul rant... :) At 11:47 PM 11/4/96 -0700, you wrote: [...] >Zyxl sounds sort of like Zugzul, doesn't it? Perhaps a bastardized >version of the Immortal's name- a sort of Aengmor/Oenkmar thingy. Perhaps >Zugzul has followers there? > >On another note, I have been thinking more about good ol' Zug lately. I >was thinking that perhaps Z. could have been a name for another immortal, >but I'm not so sure any longer. The first thought was Rathanos, as Zugzul >is described in DA4 as being of the Sphere of Energy. Only problems are >a) the time frame is wrong- Rathanos, having been an Oltec, would have >existed contemporaneously with the Blackmoor civilization- and Z. had >been active for at least a couple of centuries prior to the rise of that >kingdom; b) the Afridhi are a matriarchy, and Rathanos is a noted male >chauvinist. Of course, perhaps he once wasn't, but after the failure of >the Afridhi matriarchy he became very misogynistic? I don't know about Zugzul being a pseudonym for another Immortal, but I think it would be interesting for Zugzul to have worshippers on Zyxl if we have Zyxl populated by a Amazonian/Japanese hybrid culture, as was suggested a while back by Matthew, I think. This would make sense since the Afridhi were a matriarchical culture, thus maintaining an association between Zugzul and female-dominated societies. Since Zugzul is supposed to be male himself, that raises an interesting question as to why he would favor female-dominated cultures. I can think of a bunch of psychologically interesting possibilities for the mortal life of Zugzul that would make him this way. Perhaps it is sexually motivated (the high priestess is his mistress in Afridhi culture) and Zugzul sees all other males as competitors? Perhaps, in mortal life, Zugzul wished he were a female (although then why wouldn't he assume a female form and identity as an Immortal)? Perhaps Zugzul is actually rather androgynous and supports different cultures (i.e. not just female-dominated ones) and assumes the gender opposite that of the dominant one, so as to be the master/mistress of the high priest(ess) in each case? Etc., /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ ~| David "Azure" Leland ~|~ Email: dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu |~ ~| UCSD Cognitive Science ~|~ Phone/Fax: (619) 642-6709 |~ ~| Oberlin class of 1996 ~|~ Web: http://cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland |~ ~| Amateur conguero; Q(O+H)Q(G+W)AEEEBGKUS Mystaran; P75 on Ethernet |~ \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/ ------------------------------ From: Deathwatch Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 18:50:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chronomancers At 12:11 3-11-96 -0500, you wrote: >Yes, Cronomancers have all died off but what special Magics where they >into. Im looking to see what The Mystara "Chronomances" are (the >magics). Im playing pre WotI, and theAlhatatins are still around. Is >there any thing new about Chronomancy that I can throw in to my >campaign. (special Magics for Mystara?) > >Dont tell me........go and buy the book and mix it in yourself. :-) Well....if you are going to buy the book only for Mystara...don't....get the text file. Chronomancer can (and will if you don't watch out) disrupt gameplay. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #279 ***************************** From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 08:47:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA13935; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:16:01 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA15044 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:39:14 -0600 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:39:14 -0600 Message-Id: <199611070039.SAA15044@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #280 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 458e9225bd2e6b4f96148870fed29f38 Status: RO mystara-digest Wednesday, 6 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 280 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 21:13:10 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. (Was: Jaggar's Draconic Form) At 14.34 04/11/96 -0700, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >> Okay fine -- if you want to stick to mechanical details, cross off the >> references to white uniforms (etc), and replace with that with gold. Of >> course, he's going to look a bit like Zorro the Gay Blade, but hey, >> that's fantasy for you! 8P > > >Hmm. This raises an interesting question- How does Manuel of the Plains >dress? Like the traditional black garbed Zorro? Or like his cousin, Zorro >the Gay Blade? Or maybe one of the other de Belcadiz elves substitutes >for don (which was it? Carlo?) when he needs to protect his secret >identity. Questions, questions... ;) IMC he dresses like the traditional black garbed Zorro. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 15:11:01 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Another Zugzul rant... :) On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, David 'Azure' Leland wrote: > I don't know about Zugzul being a pseudonym for another Immortal, > but I think it would be interesting for Zugzul to have worshippers on Zyxl > if we have Zyxl populated by a Amazonian/Japanese hybrid culture, as was > suggested a while back by Matthew, I think. This would make sense since the > Afridhi were a matriarchical culture, thus maintaining an association > between Zugzul and female-dominated societies. That's sort of along the lines that my reasoning went. First I thought that the name sounded familiar, then I remembered that we had discussed the possibility of a matriarchy of Amazon type people over there. Perhaps one of the reasons Zugzul isn't widely known in the 'Known World' is because he seems to have a preference for more primitive cultures, as well as matriarchies? Which, AFAIK, there aren't any of in the cultures of the Known World. > Since Zugzul is supposed to be male himself, that raises an interesting > question as to why he would favor female-dominated cultures. I can > think of a bunch of psychologically interesting possibilities for the > mortal life of Zugzul that would make him this way. Perhaps it is sexually > motivated (the high priestess is his mistress in Afridhi culture) and Zugzul > sees all other males as competitors? I wou.d place my bets more on this reasoning. As you mentioned, in the Afridhi culture, there is strong evidence that the high priestess is his mistress. Perhaps he enjoys being served by women. I don't necessarily know about the threatened by males bit, but it could be so. I know that Zirchev is described as being a homely man in life, so he adopts a form of a handsome man as an Immortal. Perhaps Zugzul's preference for female dominated society is similar. Or maybe he sees women as being more dynamic than males (to try and tie it into his Sphere of Energy motivation?) > Perhaps, in mortal life, Zugzul wished he were a female (although then why > wouldn't he assume a female form and identity as an Immortal)? Perhaps > Zugzul is actually rather androgynous and supports different cultures > (i.e. not just female-dominated ones) and assumes the gender opposite that > of the dominant one, so as to be the master/mistress of the high > priest(ess) in each case? Some interesting questions/speculations. I'm not sure what to think. It reminds me of those old Dragon articles, though, the Ecology/Psychology ones. "The Psychology of an Immortal"- given that Zug is somewhere around 6000 years old or so, that's a task that would challenge any psychiatrist, I bet. :) ------------------------------ From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:15:52, -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. <> For my part, I tweaked the numbers a bit- I think I added 10 to whatever die roll used for their ages (ex. 1d20x10- I don't know if this is an actual number or not, but for examples' sake...) Normally this would give an age range of 10-200 years, sort of low for a dragon I'd think. But if you make it (1d20+10)x10, you get a range of 110-300 years. This is what I did for all the ages, and it seems to get a pretty good age range for (what I consider, anyway) seemingly ancient dragon types. <> Have you checked out the Council of Wyrms boxed set? It will give you a plethra of info on dragon stats. You should definetly look at it. I don't have it with me now, but the age limits are different depending on the dragon-type IIRC. Also, i believe a Great Wyrm is typically around 1400 years old! So both of those tables could be a little short. - -tim ------------------------------ From: "Jorge Villalobos" Date: 6 Nov 1996 12:19:34 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic Form >Synn the night dragon is back? This is AD&D right? What does AD&D have >Synn do to Jaggar? > She sort of "charmed" him into her servitude. That to make Kol a prince and some other nasty things. Intelligent move knowing that the only prince that could have identified Dolores as a dragon was Jaggar. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- | ==(W{==========- | | || (.--.) | | | \_,|**|,__ Jorge Villalobos Duran | | `\ ' `--' ), Universidad de los Andes | | `\_. .__/\ \ factol@hotmail.com | | | . |""""| jo-villa@uniandes.edu.co | | /==0==-\<>/ jvillalobos@envirolink.org | | | / \ | Tel (571) 2585382 | | ( ) ( ) | | | ; | ; | | | ; | ; | - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___ _____ .'/,-Y" "~-. l.Y ^. /\ _\_ i ___/" "\ DOUGH!!!! | /" "\ o ! l ] o !__./ \ _ _ \.___./ "~\ X \/ \ ___./ ( \ ___. _..--~~" ~`-. ` Z,-- / \ \__. ( / ______) \ l /-----~~" / Y \ / | "x______.^ | \ To the tune of ``Jingle Bells'': Azathoth Azathoth Azathoth, the King Center of the Universe, Insanity he brings, Hey! - --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "Jorge Villalobos" Date: 6 Nov 1996 12:40:33 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic Form >After sorting through about thirty mails about this topic, I bring up a >point from (Wednesday?). I can't recall off my head wether Jaggar was >printed as evil, but he is/was currently being manipulated by Synn, >which would explain a lot. I'm almos sure he's printed as Lawful Neutral > >-- >Estlor estlor@geocities.com >Mystaran Elven hero (and Admin of the Campaign Page) >Main Page >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/6011/index.html >European Mirror: >http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh/estlor/index.html > - ----------------------------------------------------------------- | ==(W{==========- | | || (.--.) | | | \_,|**|,__ Jorge Villalobos Duran | | `\ ' `--' ), Universidad de los Andes | | `\_. .__/\ \ factol@hotmail.com | | | . |""""| jo-villa@uniandes.edu.co | | /==0==-\<>/ jvillalobos@envirolink.org | | | / \ | Tel (571) 2585382 | | ( ) ( ) | | | ; | ; | | | ; | ; | - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___ _____ .'/,-Y" "~-. l.Y ^. /\ _\_ i ___/" "\ DOUGH!!!! | /" "\ o ! l ] o !__./ \ _ _ \.___./ "~\ X \/ \ ___./ ( \ ___. _..--~~" ~`-. ` Z,-- / \ \__. ( / ______) \ l /-----~~" / Y \ / | "x______.^ | \ To the tune of ``Jingle Bells'': Azathoth Azathoth Azathoth, the King Center of the Universe, Insanity he brings, Hey! - --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:46:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic Form >>After sorting through about thirty mails about this topic, I bring up a >>point from (Wednesday?). I can't recall off my head wether Jaggar was >>printed as evil, but he is/was currently being manipulated by Synn, >>which would explain a lot. >I'm almos sure he's printed as Lawful Neutral >> in the Glantri AD&D book Jaggar's alignment Lawful Evil he is "evil" because of his extremely lawful side he uses the law to his own benefit he cares more about his goals than his peoples IMO i dont like the good/evil alignments to me, the word "evil" doesnt sound right i dont consider someone who puts his goals first as "evil" but that is how the PHB describes it ------------------------------ From: TSRBruce@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:59:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. In a message dated 96-11-04 20:46:51 EST, jsmill wrote: >For my part, I tweaked the numbers a bit- I think I added 10 to whatever >die roll used for their ages (ex. 1d20x10- I don't know if this is an >actual number or not, but for examples' sake...) Normally this would give >an age range of 10-200 years, sort of low for a dragon I'd think. But if >you make it (1d20+10)x10, you get a range of 110-300 years. This is what >I did for all the ages, and it seems to get a pretty good age range for >(what I consider, anyway) seemingly ancient dragon types. Okay -- I see where you are coming from. I don't recall anything in OD&D that helped determine the lifespans of dragons (anyone -- ???). You don't have to match lifespans in AD&D, but I can see the practicality of doing so. Adding 10 of the basic die/dice roll helps. Here's the original chart : White Dragon 1d20*6 thus: 6-120 years (hmm, min. 6 year lifespan) Black 2d12*7 14-168 years Green 3d10*8 24-240 years Blue 4d8*9 36-288 years Red 3d12*10 30-360 years Gold 2d20*11 22-440 years Here's your modified chart: White Dragon 1d20+10 x 6 thus 60-180 years Black 2d12+10 x 7 84-238 years Green 3d10+10 x 8 104-320 years Blue 4d8+10 x 9 126-378 years Red 3d12+10 x 10 130-460 years Gold 2d20+10 x 11 132-550 years ...which works better if longevity is what you're after (the minimums are certainly more in line with what one would expect). In retrospect, I would push just a tad further and assume every time a dragon succeeds a Ceremony of Sublimation, increase current longevity score +5%. So for example, if you rolled up a gold dragon with a longevity of 350 years, add another 17 years when it succeeds its first ceremony. If it took its time about it, a great gold could succeed 11 such ceremonies in its lifetime before topping out its HD. Unless I messed up the calculations, this means it could add ...+171% to its original score. Our great gold with a basic lifespan of 350 years could thus survive ...948 years! With a maximum basic lifespan of 550 years, this brings the maximum possible lifespan for a non-Immortal dragon to 1,490 years. Better? Anyone wants to volunteer other dragons? :) Bruce Heard This discussion is based upon the DRAGON magazine article on Mystara dragons (issues #170 and #171). ------------------------------ From: TSRBruce@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:22:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. In a message dated 96-11-06 16:13:17 EST, I unwisely wrote: > Unless I messed up the calculations, this means it could add ...+171% to >its original score. Sure enough... I got the numbers wrong. Add 10% years of the current life span of the dragon each time a Ceremony of Sublimation succeeds (not +5%). The cumulated *+171%* figure was wrong. Sorry. :) Bruce Heard (the other Bruce, not the one in Accounting) ------------------------------ From: - Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:28:35 +-100 Subject: [Mystara] What is Evil? On the 11.06 CRIPTONITE wrote that a person who puts his goals first is not evil. I'll say that a person who puts = his goals first while hindreing others is evil. Evil is to think you are = better. Evil is to damage without reason. Evil is to make it worse for = others to have it better for yourself. Anyone have any opinions? =20 Tarjeh. ------------------------------ From: TSRBruce@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:35:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. And one more thing that bugs me about the article has to do with the range of Omens of Coming for neutral dragons attaining Immortality (see page 13 of the article). I had stated that the area of effect was 1d20 miles for a small nation, double that for a large kingdom, and ten times that for an empire. That's clunky. I would suggest instead rolling a d6. The score indicates tens of percents of the nation's population affected by the philosophical changes (a roll of 4 would indicate 40% for example). The change initially affects only the nation that witnessed the Omen of Coming. All adjacent realms are affected as well within the next 1d20 months, but at half the rate (reroll the scores and divide by two at that point). Bruce Heard ------------------------------ From: - Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:29:47 +-100 Subject: [Mystara] VS: Sheets! - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBCBDE.3561CA00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is a Monter Recording Sheet........ Players Option Player record Sheets....... NPC Sheets...... Magical Weapon Sheets...... and Spell Sheets. - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBCBDE.3561CA00 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="MMSHEET.doc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAA EAAAEgAAAAEAAAD+////AAAAABEAAAD///////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////c pWgAW+AUBAAAAABlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwAADBIAAH4fAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADA8AAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABoAAG4AAAAAGgAAbgAAAG4aAAAAAAAAbhoA AAAAAABuGgAAAAAAAG4aAAAAAAAAbhoAABQAAACiGgAAAAAAAKIaAAAAAAAAohoAAAAAAACiGgAA AAAAAKIaAAAAAAAAohoAAAoAAACsGgAAEAAAAKIaAAAAAAAAtx4AADEAAAC8GgAAAAAAALwaAAAA AAAAvBoAAAAAAAC8GgAAAAAAALwaAAAAAAAAyhoAAAAAAADKGgAAAAAAAMoaAAAAAAAAxxwAAAIA AADJHAAAAAAAAMkcAAAAAAAAyRwAACgAAADxHAAA1AAAAMUdAADUAAAAmR4AAB4AAADoHgAAWAAA AEAfAAA+AAAAtx4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAbhoAAAAAAACqHAAAAAAAAAAACgALAAEA AgC8GgAADgAAAMoaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKocAAAAAAAAqhwAAAAAAAC3HgAAAAAA AKocAAAAAAAAbhoAAAAAAABuGgAAAAAAALwaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALwaAAAAAAAA qhwAAAAAAACqHAAAAAAAAKocAAAAAAAAqhwAAAAAAABuGgAAAAAAALwaAAAAAAAAbhoAAAAAAAC8 GgAAAAAAAMccAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgvjl6KMm7AYIaAAAIAAAAihoAABgAAABuGgAAAAAAAG4a AAAAAAAAbhoAAAAAAABuGgAAAAAAAMoaAADgAQAAxxwAAAAAAACqHAAAHQAAAKocAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIQ0xJTUFURS9URVJSQUlOOglfX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw1GUkVRVUVOQ1k6CQlfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw1PUkdBTklaQVRJ T046CV9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDUFDVElWSVRZIENZQ0xFOglfX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw1ESUVUOgkJCV9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDUlOVEVMTElHRU5DRToJ X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NVFJFQVNVUkU6ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw1BTElHTk1FTlQ6CQlfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0N Tk8uQVBQRUFSSU5HOglfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw1BUk1PUiBDTEFTUzoJX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NTU9WRU1FTlQ6CQlfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw1ISVQg From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 08:47:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA13935; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:16:01 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA15044 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:39:14 -0600 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:39:14 -0600 Message-Id: <199611070039.SAA15044@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #280 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 458e9225bd2e6b4f96148870fed29f38 Status: RO RElDRToJCV9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDVRIQUMwOgkJCV9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fDU5PLiBPRiBBVFRBQ0tTOglfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw1EQU1BR0UvQVRU QUNLOglfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw1TUEVDSUFMIEFUVEFDS1M6CV9fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fDVNQRUNJQUwgREVGRU5TRVM6CV9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDU1B 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From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 08:47:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA13935; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:16:01 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA15044 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:39:14 -0600 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:39:14 -0600 Message-Id: <199611070039.SAA15044@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #280 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 458e9225bd2e6b4f96148870fed29f38 Status: RO YXQvU29jaWV0eTpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f 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Sat Nov 09 08:47:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA13935; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:16:01 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA15044 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:39:14 -0600 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:39:14 -0600 Message-Id: <199611070039.SAA15044@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #280 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 458e9225bd2e6b4f96148870fed29f38 Status: RO X19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCg0KICBRdW90ZXMuLi46X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCiAgICAgICAgICAgIF9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQoN CiAgUC5RdWlya3MuOl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f 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End of mystara-digest V1 #280 ***************************** From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 08:47:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA15334; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:40:59 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA15267 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:05:19 -0600 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:05:19 -0600 Message-Id: <199611070105.TAA15267@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #281 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 5f66ed8ae04f43efb1335170585fd739 Status: RO mystara-digest Wednesday, 6 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 281 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: - Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:19:13 +-100 Subject: [Mystara] VS: Sheets! - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBCBDD.14669A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - ---------- Sendt: 3. november 1996 03:00 Til: 'Benny'; 'Mystara mailing list' Emne: Sheets! Here is a Monter Recording Sheet........ Players Option Player record Sheets....... NPC Sheets...... 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Sat Nov 09 08:47:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA15334; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:40:59 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA15267 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:05:19 -0600 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:05:19 -0600 Message-Id: <199611070105.TAA15267@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #281 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 5f66ed8ae04f43efb1335170585fd739 Status: RO X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KICAgICAgICAg ICAgX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18NCiAgICAgICAgICAgIF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQogICAgICAgICAgICBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f 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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBCBDD.14669A20-- ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #281 ***************************** From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 08:47:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA02837; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:43:08 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA25703 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:07:16 -0600 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:07:16 -0600 Message-Id: <199611080107.TAA25703@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #282 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: b9fabfe6f34b6504619ff393107f8929 mystara-digest Thursday, 7 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 282 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Kaelin Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:40:31 -0400 Subject: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic Form > >>After sorting through about thirty mails about this topic, I bring up a > >>point from (Wednesday?). I can't recall off my head wether Jaggar was > >>printed as evil, but he is/was currently being manipulated by Synn, > >>which would explain a lot. > > >I'm almos sure he's printed as Lawful Neutral >> > >in the Glantri AD&D book Jaggar's alignment Lawful Evil >he is "evil" because of his extremely lawful side >he uses the law to his own benefit >he cares more about his goals than his peoples >IMO i dont like the good/evil alignments >to me, the word "evil" doesnt sound right >i dont consider someone who puts his goals first as "evil" >but that is how the PHB describes it Don't go by the PHB. If you can get or borrow it, read the Mystara Monster's compendium, under the Dragon listing. It has a little shpiel on AD&D alignments in Mystara. To paraphrase... On Mystara, unlike every other campaign world published, Law and Chaos are MUCH more important then Good and Evil. A Lawful Good being and a Lawful Evil being would probably be more likely to to get along or work together then would Lawful Good and Chaotic Good beings on Mystara. There are Lawful Evil Gold Dragons, just like there are Chaotic Good Red's. Mystara has always put Law vs. Chaos ahead of Good vs. Evil. (i.e. Humanoids aren't evil, just chaotic and therefore misunderstood, even hated by the lawful people living quiet lives in town.) I generally follow this in my campaign. For example, Jagger is one of the greatest forces for law and order in Glantri. Those people who need his help, other lawful's that is, just know by now not to ask him for help unless they have little other alternatives, because his methods tend to be a little more strict and harsh then most people would like, as befitting his military and draconic backgrounds. (and if he can get something for himself out of it, there's nothing disorderly in that.) If you look at the Good vs. Evil scale more as a characters, or NPC's, general "morale fiber" or "concious" if you will, you might find it more usable. (i.e. Jaggar would have no problem striking a criminal dead, or abandoning some innocent bystanders if it meant a greater victory elsewhere. He's concerned with the overall "law and order" of his principality above all else, he just approaches it in a different way.) In my campaign, this makes him a "good guy" even though he's evil. Note also, adopting this philosophy comes in handy if you feel like incorporating Planescape, or in particular the blood war between the Lawful Baatezu and the Chaotic Ta'anari (sic?) into your campaign at higher levels. (i.e. do the players take the side of those they agree with, or do they just condem all fiends as evil and try to wipe out the lot (fat chance), and perahps risk that the oppposite side may win. Anywho, that's my alignment theory. Hope it helps. - -Bob - ------------------------------------------------ Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence Software Developer 725 Concord Ave. (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138 Kaelin@natural.com ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 17:13:02 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. On Wed, 6 Nov 1996 TSRBruce@aol.com wrote: > In retrospect, I would push just a tad further and assume every time a > dragon succeeds a Ceremony of Sublimation, increase current longevity > score +5%. So for example, if you rolled up a gold dragon with a > longevity of 350 years, add another 17 years when it succeeds its first > ceremony. If it took its time about it, a great gold could succeed 11 > such ceremonies in its lifetime before topping out its HD. Unless I > messed up the calculations, this means it could add ...+171% to its > original score. Our great gold with a basic lifespan of 350 years could > thus survive ...948 years! With a maximum basic lifespan of 550 years, this > brings the maximum possible lifespan for a non-Immortal dragon to 1,490 > years. I like that idea of adding 5%. It gives dragons yet another reason to undergo the Ceremony of Sublimation (as if they had much choice :). I also like the idea of dragons out there that have memories dating back to before the crowning of the first Emperor of Thyatis. ;) > This discussion is based upon the DRAGON magazine article on Mystara dragons > (issues #170 and #171). One of the best presentations of dragons (certainly Mystaran dragons) I've read. I've toyed with the idea of using it as a basis for dragon PC's. No need to worry about exorbitant xp costs, etc. Just have the dragons undergo the Ceremony of Sublimation as their means of gaining HD, abilities, etc. Naturally, I don't know how well it would work with a group of dragons, but for a one-on-one campaign, it seems like it would work out pretty well. (DM- "You awaken from your long sleep, feeling much wiser. Your fourth cycle of Sublimation is done, and you are very hungry." PC/Dragon- "Hmm. Guess I'll go out and raze the nearest town.") One question though. Is the treasure that the dragon has gathered supposed to be consumed at the completion of every Ceremony, or only during the final, Immortality-or-bust Ceremony? If it is at every one, it seems like the inflation rate on currency on Mystara would be incredibly high. (Large explosion in the mountains where a Red dragon is known to live. "Ahh, heck. There goes the economy...") Thanks for your response, Bruce. Oh, and don't be surprised if one of your dragons from the Who's Who article turns up in the AC 1014 almanac. (If it's still in there... I'm not even sure. ;) ------------------------------ From: Jason Zavoda Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:58:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] VS: Sheets! These 60k emails are getting a bit much for me. Can they be distributed by some other method. Perhaps by request and not on the general list. Whats the consensus? Jason Zavoda ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 21:26:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic Form Ok, my 2 cents on this. IMO, Jaggar is Lawful Neutral, because he is so Lawful, he don't really care whether what he do is consider as good or evil. He does not necessarily try to strike the balance between good and evil, he just don't care. > On Mystara, unlike every other campaign world published, Law and Chaos are > MUCH more important then Good and Evil. This, however, I really don't like. IMO, when they simplified the alignment from 9 to 3 for OD&D game, they used lawful/chaotic instead of good/evil, because it sounds cooler, even through it was still meant to be good and evil. And now they merge the game system back together again, they try to come up with something to explain it, which to me is rather awkard. - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: Kaviyd@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:59:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] VS: Sheets! In a message dated 96-11-06 23:37:53 EST, nemesis@ssnet.com (Jason Zavoda) writes: << These 60k emails are getting a bit much for me. Can they be distributed by some other method. Perhaps by request and not on the general list. Whats the consensus? >> I find them rather annoying too, and I am pretty sure that they are out of scope for this list. Could the administrator of this list please stop these binary files? ------------------------------ From: TSRBruce@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:35:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. In a message dated 96-11-06 22:01:38 EST, jsmill wrote: << One question though. Is the treasure that the dragon has gathered supposed to be consumed at the completion of every Ceremony, or only during the final, Immortality-or-bust Ceremony? >> Oh shoot, good question... It doesn't seem right to consume the entire hoard every time. Imagine this: you creep into the lair of the dragon and the floor is... spotless. Not the meerest little copper coin to be found! However, a *bigger and shinier* dragon smoking nonchalantly, sweeps off his old dried up scales into a pit at the other end of the lair. He glances over his shoulder and says "Hey, sorry friend, you're a tad too late! Try again later." I don't remember specifying what part of the hoard gets consumed during the sublimation. Here's a suggestion. Up until the point the dragon becomes Immortal, only part of the treasure is consumed (roughly 10% of the hoard for each HD that is actually gained). If the hoard is worth less than 5000 gp, assume 70% is consumed during the attempt (whether it succeeds or not). From 5001 to 25,000 gp, burn off 50% worth. From 25,001 to 100,000 gp, burn off 30%. Above 100,000 gp, burn off 20% (adjust according to your campaign's economics). When the dragon actually attains Immortality, the entire hoard is consumed as described in the article, save for artifacts which the dragon takes along. << If it is at every one, it seems like the inflation rate on currency on Mystara would be incredibly high. (Large explosion in the mountains where a Red dragon is known to live. "Ahh, heck. There goes the economy...") >> LOL -- Jsmill! Indeed it would be. :) Bruce Heard ------------------------------ From: David Keyser Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:17:27 -0800 Subject: [Mystara] Where did people place OD&D generic adventures in Mystara? I got a chance to read the Dungeon adventure which concerns a band of dwarves holding a young crystal dragon captive. As I mentioned before, the adventure includes monsters specific to the realm of Mystara, but what I found from reading in detail is that the adventure is a pseudo- sequel to the old D&D expert module XS2 Thunderdelve Mountain. The adventure takes place 30+ years after the events in XS2. Which leads me to my question - Where do you DMs place the following OD&D modules in Mystara, if you placed them in Mystara at all? My campaign has not played any of these, and I am mulling over possible locations. XS2 Thunderdelve Mountain - I plan to base this in Karameikos, nearby the gnomish settlements. The dwarves that live among the gnomes have lost Thunderdelve about 50 years ago, and they long to get it back. XL-1 Quest for the Heartstone AC3 The Kidnapping of Princess Arelina AC5 The Revenge of Rusak Since these three adventures depend on kingdoms that don't exactly match any known kingdoms, I am thinking about dropping some small kingdoms somewhere west of Wendar and Denagoth. Each of them is small and isolated, and only been in existence for 100-200 years. Populated by outcasts, pioneers, and loners from the various known world kingdoms. AC2 The Treasure of the Hideous One - The swamp near the Black Eagle Barony does not seem remote enough, I was thinking of putting it near the squamous kingdoms along the Savage Coast, especially because of the cay-men. B8 Journey to the Rock - I know this one was placed in Karameikos in the module B1-9, but it just doesn't fit. Even with the chameleon men, it doesn't feel right to put it along the Savage Coast. I seem to recall someone put it somewhere in the mountains in Darokin. Some encounters would have to be changed to make it fit in Mystara CM5 Mystery of the Snow Pearls - In a remote region of the Isle of Dawn. M2 Maze of the Riddling Minotaur - An island somewhere south of Yavdlom or south of the Savage Coast. Dave Keyser ------------------------------ From: Peter Balazs Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:35:25 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] VS: Sheets! >These 60k emails are getting a bit much for me. Can they be distributed >by some other method. Perhaps by request and not on the general list. >Whats the consensus? I=B4ve liked it to receive this sheets, so I am for distributing such things via the general list. BUT: I have received it four times, and I don=B4t see any differences between the four postings.=20 So I think, if somebody wants to share anything big, he should use the From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 08:47:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA02837; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:43:08 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA25703 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:07:16 -0600 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:07:16 -0600 Message-Id: <199611080107.TAA25703@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #282 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: b9fabfe6f34b6504619ff393107f8929 general list, but only post it once, and if he changes something he should only post the changed part! *************************************************************************** Peter Balazs (a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at) http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: "Oystein H. Lund" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:10:19 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic Form On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: > This, however, I really don't like. IMO, when they simplified > the alignment from 9 to 3 for OD&D game, they used lawful/chaotic instead > of good/evil, because it sounds cooler, even through it was still meant > to be good and evil. And now they merge the game system back together > again, they try to come up with something to explain it, which to me is > rather awkard. Err, no. D&D always used the Law/Chaos dichtonomy - more or less nicked straight from Michael Moorcock's stories, particualrily the Eternal Champion/Elric cycles. It's AD&D that expanded upon this, pretty uselessly IMHO, by adding the Good/Evil axes. Good/evil is relative to the society and the observer, and has meaning only within a society. Law/chaos is a more generally applicable statement about whether you tend to consider the effects of your actions upon other people, the group, and society as a whole, and try to act within the structure of society - or not. Much more useful, much less moral black-and-white thinking. Makes for more interesting games too. (No, the orcs aren't evil. They're just not inclined to be good neighbors, and when you try to farm their sheepgrazing grounds, they take violent exeption to your incursion. But did you have the right to plough their meadows in the first place ? Since the orcs now face starvation after you killed all those bloody sheep eating your grain....) _______________________________________________________________________ | Oeystein H. Lund ,kj160@hp825.lhg.hib.no | | "Who are we, why are we here ?" | | - Forget the questions, someone gimme another beer. | | "What's the meaning of life, what's the meaning of it all ?" | | -You gotta learn to dance, before they make you crawl. | |_____________________________________________________________________| ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 04:49:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN] Those Binary Files... Mystarans... For the record, I have let the poster of the large binary files know that such things shouldn't be posted to the list. At some point I think I will add a section to the FAQ letting people know not to send binary attachments. Sorry for the problems it may have caused anyone. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ From: Jody Duncan Date: Thu, 7 Nov 96 11:35:32 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] [ADMIN] Those Binary Files... Leroy Van Camp III writes: > > > > Mystarans... > For the record, I have let the poster of the large binary files know > that such things shouldn't be posted to the list. At some point I think I > will add a section to the FAQ letting people know not to send binary > attachments. > Sorry for the problems it may have caused anyone. No inconvenience. I liked 'em... - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive!" Carleton U. Computer Science, Software Email addresses: jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca cq793@freenet.carleton.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Matthew Levy Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:43:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. On Wed, 6 Nov 1996 TSRBruce@aol.com wrote: > << If it is at every one, it seems like the inflation rate on currency on > Mystara would be incredibly high. (Large explosion in the mountains where a > Red dragon is known to live. "Ahh, heck. There goes the economy...") >> > > LOL -- Jsmill! Indeed it would be. :) > > Bruce Heard > > wait ... if this is burning up coin, the currency would get deflated ... less coin available=increased purchasing power ... maybe forcing a switch from the gold standard to paper money!!! which would then allow inflation as normal. But I think Mystara, and D&D in general, are much better off if (just as they are not really subject to the laws of physics) they are kept safely out of the hands of economics and economists ... think of what might happen ... m@2 ------------------------------ From: Matthew_Kammann@westtown.edu (Matthew Kammann) Date: 07 Nov 1996 15:18:43 GMT Subject: Re: [Mystara] What is Evil? evil is a state of mind. there is no difference between good or evil. just fun. and boring. ------------------------------ From: Matthew_Kammann@westtown.edu (Matthew Kammann) Date: 07 Nov 1996 15:17:29 GMT Subject: Re: Re: [Mystara] VS: Sheets! Hi. I am trapped at a sadistic evil quaker boarding school and I cant download messages because of the paranoid administration. so would there be any way to break down these messages into a little smaller more bite sized pieces of less then 32K. :) ------------------------------ From: TSRBruce@aol.com Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:13:45 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. In a message dated 96-11-07 14:00:08 EST, Matthew Levy wrote: >wait ... if this is burning up coin, the currency would get deflated ... >less coin available=increased purchasing power ... maybe forcing a switch >from the gold standard to paper money!!! which would then allow inflation >as normal. Quick, someone get a gnome. We need a printing press NOW! :) Bruce Heard ------------------------------ From: sleipnir@northernnet.com (JL) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:12:56 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals >In a message dated 96-10-09 16:16:26 EDT, dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca (Daniel >Boese) writes: > ><< The question is, When did/do/will these pre-Immortals show up?>> > >I certainly see possibilities here. Yav is another Immortal whose time >travels are well documented. However, candidates for Immortality in >the Sphere of Time do not necessarily travel into the future -- they >travel into a possible future that may or may not actually occur. So, >while it is certainly possible for these Immortal candidates to show up >at various times, it is not necessary that they do so. I was thinking here that perhaps a motivation for the Time Immortals is to protect the timeline and keep it flowing so that the events they created actually occur! Let me expand upon this further : Let us say that Kavian "Patch" Slipshadow is questing for Immortality as a Dynast. After years of questing, Kavian has found the fabled Traveller's Gem, which is rumored to allow one to look into the future. It does so, however, it does so in such a manner that the person is transferred into the future physically. He must go into the future to help his descendants or kingdom or whatnot (and since Kavian HAS HAD NO children, it wouldn't be his descendants). He travels forward in time to a place that looks familiar, but is about twenty years older than last time. Here he finds the Great Kingdom he helped found is in a great deal of trouble as the Emperor has vanished while questing for his lost son, the heir to the throne, and dark forces are on the rise. This would be a great turning point in history, which is why he showed up, it is up to him to structure what the future will look like (of course, his Immortal patrons do not tell him this). Everyone remembers Kavian vanishing about twenty years ago and assume him dead, he has not aged a day so almost no one recognizes him, and he auspiciously avoids contact with anyone who might realize who he really is. The end of this quest to help the Great Kingdom recover is accomplished by searching out the Emperor's lost heir and placing him on the throne as regent (though the Emperor is still mysteriously missing). Kavian then steps through time again and appears about a century down the line at another turning point in history. The Emperor's other son, who was disowned for practice of the dark arts and has sustained himself through their use, is plotting against the current Emperor and his heirs, and has raised an Undead army to march against the complacent kingdom. Kavian helps the Emperor and his family survive the assault and assasination attempts of the necromancer, but destroys the Great Kingdom in the process, causing it's split into a dozen lesser kingdoms ruled by feuding barons and nobles. Again he steps through time, appearing in a great cave network which he recognizes as the place where he first found the Traveller's Gem. Emerging, he finds that he is in another time altogether, a time in the far, far past. Kavian no longer has the Traveller's Gem. He soon realizes this is because it does not yet exist. He begins a small monastic group dedicated to him, or as they have come to call him "the Traveller" with the express purpose of creating the Traveller's Gem, which is unearthed a year later and magically empowered with certain rites gathered from his travels throughout time. Kavian graps the completed Gem and vanishes, reappearing the moment of his vanishing from his original timeline. The Gem is eventually placed within the cave where Kavian will find it by the last of the monastic brotherhood, who saw within it that it must be placed there. Kavian is deemed a worthy candidate for Immortality in the sphere of Time and is told that to protect his memory and status, the timeline he helped create must be kept safe, thus he pledges his alliance to protecting the flow of events leading to both the finding of the Emperor's heir and the collapse of the Great Kingdom and protecting the past by creating and keeping the Traveller's Gem in the cave. This sets it up nicely, for if Kavian had failed in any of the three quests in time, the future would not have been set and Kavian would not be assured that what he saw would come to pass. Should he succeed, he does, in fact vanish as recorded in the history he helped create, but he becomes the Immortal "Gemseeker" aka--"The Traveller". Thus he will now be an Immortal in the periods that he travelled to. Can he interfere and change things? Sure. But at risk of changing the timeline and thus himself. Most likely his interference will be to help himself along by assuring that the correct obstacles and rewards are in place (such as the rituals required to create the Traveller's Gem). Which leads to an interesting "paradox", the rituals required to create the Gem are learned by Kavian FROM Kavian who learned them from Kavian. Great reason for the Immortals of Time and Energy to be involved in mortal affairs, too. Energy is opposed to Time, wants to change the timeline and make things different. Time is opposed to this as that would change them entirely! So far there is a stalemate between them, Time, instead of spreading itself thin over all of history, concentrates on and protects major events (turning points) in history and in their personal history thus making it hard for Energy to change anything of importance a great deal. This is why the Immortals retain a strong presence on Temporal Prime, especially with the advent of Chronomancy magic, something they utterly despise. Alternately, since the Immortals exist outside of the Prime Plane's space and time, they are unchanged by events on the Prime. They remember their own histories and experiences as they occured to them, though mortal history may be entirely different. Of course, this still makes it hard, as history being changed leaves the Immortal entirely clueless about what is really going on, and perhaps even viewed as insane by other Immortals who "remember things differently" (these would be those acheiving Immortality after the change in history took place). Convoluted? You bet! - -Oarim ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #282 ***************************** mystara-digest Saturday, 9 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 283 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 18:59:09 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, Matthew Levy wrote: > wait ... if this is burning up coin, the currency would get deflated ... > less coin available=increased purchasing power ... maybe forcing a switch > from the gold standard to paper money!!! which would then allow inflation > as normal. But I think Mystara, and D&D in general, are much better off > if (just as they are not really subject to the laws of physics) they are > kept safely out of the hands of economics and economists ... think of what > might happen ... I bet the dragons would get really honked off if humans started resorting to paper currency... especially the Reds. If they sneezed accidentally- Whoosh! There go their chances of attaining Immortality. Maybe this is why Mystara still uses the gold standard? Oh, wait- doesn't Darokin use paper for large transactions of money? They'd better not get too carried away, or they might be facing a plague of dragons soon. There'd be another Great Rain of Fire on their hands. :) ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 18:53:45 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Where did people place OD&D generic adventures in Mystara? On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, David Keyser wrote: > Where do you DMs place the following OD&D modules in Mystara, if you placed > them in Mystara at all? My campaign has not played any of these, and I am > mulling over possible locations. > > XS2 Thunderdelve Mountain - I plan to base this in Karameikos, nearby the > gnomish settlements. The dwarves that live among the gnomes have lost > Thunderdelve about 50 years ago, and they long to get it back. I remember putting this one in Rockhome (go figure ;) , though I didn't specify a location exactly. Seems to me that somewhere around Stahl would make a nice location. Your suggestion would work well, too. > XL-1 Quest for the Heartstone This one doesn't seem to fit very well in most of the Known World. My suggestions would be either somewhere in the Northern Reaches- probably Soderfjord, replacing the king with a Jarl; Wendar might work; or perhaps somewhere on the Isle of Dawn- my idea would be along the northern part- Grand Duchy of Westrourke or somewhere near Helskir. These are all just arbitrary placements. I seem to recall a sort of feudal feel to that module, not to mention that it takes place in a northern/arctic type of climate. IIRC, I placed it around Vestland/Soderfjord when I ran it, but there was such a high mortality rate (so many characters died, they just left without finishing the adventure!), that I decided to retcon the whole thing. :( > AC3 The Kidnapping of Princess Arelina > AC5 The Revenge of Rusak > Since these three adventures depend on kingdoms that don't exactly match > any known kingdoms, I am thinking about dropping some small kingdoms > somewhere west of Wendar and Denagoth. Each of them is small and isolated, > and only been in existence for 100-200 years. Populated by outcasts, > pioneers, and loners from > the various known world kingdoms. Again, a good option (though I agree that that area seems suited as well) would be the Isle of Dawn, particularly the little settled Thyatian territories in the northern half. > AC2 The Treasure of the Hideous One - The swamp near the Black Eagle Barony > does not seem remote enough, I was thinking of putting it near the squamous > kingdoms along the Savage Coast, especially because of the cay-men. That could work very well, or, if you want to get really remote- the marshes along the northwestern coast of Davania could work. > B8 Journey to the Rock - I know this one was placed in Karameikos in the > module B1-9, but it just doesn't fit. Even with the chameleon men, it > doesn't feel right to put it along the Savage Coast. I seem to recall > someone put it somewhere in the mountains in Darokin. Some encounters > would have to be changed to make it fit in Mystara I never ran it as such (the idea didn't come to me until later), but I thought about putting it on the Adri Varma Plateau to the west of Glantri. I was going to make those chameleon men be a long lost outpost of their former civilization (prior to the Aranea memory wipe), and the ruins of that city were going to be the remnants of a lost civilization, though that's as far as I got, and (as noted) I never actually got to run it that way. > CM5 Mystery of the Snow Pearls - In a remote region of the Isle of Dawn. I set this one near the Sylvan Realm, as a followup to CM7. The Gyerian village, etc. were located somewhat down to the south, IIRC, or maybe I just set the thing on the other side of the mountains? I forget... ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 20:16:03 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Shawn wrote: > Immortal Name Level YIA Source > > > > Bartziluth *C ?? WotI, 39 > > There is no indication in WotI about Bartziluth. I put Bartiziluth c.500 BC, though I don't recall _exactly_ why at the moment. It mentions that he was a Bugburbian bugbear, and since Bugburbia wasn't founded until after King Loark's horde pops up in the Broken Lands again, maybe this is the reason I put it around that time period. IIRC, this is about the time that King Loark's horde pops up, and the tribes unite, so this would be the earliest possible time. > Chiron *I 1000 AC WotI, 39 > > Chiron only recently earned his immortality therefore 1000 AC is a total > guess. I was looking through PC1 the other day, and darned if it doesn't say anything about Chiron achieving Immortality. I think this was a later development, but I'd say that around 1000 AC is a good guess. > Diulanna 18 ?? WotI, 18 > > Diulanna was a Neather from the area which became the Hinterlands, there > is no other indication apart from this. I put her c.6000 BC (note that my circa's have a _lot_ of leeway in the case of the Immortal dates. ;). IIRC, 5000BC is when the first civilizations begin to rise to prominence, and their mentioning of her as a Neathar leads me to believe she is one of the early hunter-gatherer peoples. > Forsetta 7 614 AC .html > > Ottar the Just started his quest for immortality in 614 AC after he started > the Kingdom of Vestland, there is no indication how long that took. Note that the information on Forsetta as Ottar is something of my own devising, and that it doesn't necessarily mean anything. ;) I think I figured that his Path of the Polymath probably took a couple hundred years, so maybe c.900 AC as his 'birthdate'? Also, given his small following, it seems reasonable to assume that it may be (in large part) due to his philosophy being a relatively recent development, so this would seem to work well with being around 900 AC or so. > Gorm *E ?? WotI, 40 > > There is no indication in WotI about Gorm. I put Gorm c.600 BC or so. It seems to me that Cynidicea was probably a Nithian city, and from the information given in WotI, Gorm seems to have been the first of the three Cynidicean Immortals worshipped. This is, again, an arbitrary date- maybe he was Immortal before this? > Great One, The 26 ?? WotI, 21 > > There is no indication in WotI about The Great One. It mentions that the Great One existed in a time before the dragons were of different species, so I'm thinking that he is probably prehistorical- ie, pre 6000 BC. Probably later than Ka, Ixion, Valerias, Thanatos, Odin, Hel- possibly later than Protius, but likely before Kagyar, Calitha, and Diulanna (who were among the first humanoid species' Immortals) > Kagyar 28 5500 BC WotI, 24 > > Kagyar was a member of the Brute-Men who began to fall in upon themselves in > 5300 BC. 5500 BC taken as an arbitrary date before this in the assumption > the Kagyar was not a Brute-Man at that time. I have him tentatively as being closer to 6000 BC, as it seems that the Brute Men/Neanderthals were probably dying out on the outer world around this time, giving way before the more advanced Neathar. I don't recall if this is backed up by any more substantial information offhand. > Karaash 5 ?? WotI, 24 > > The only indication on Karaash is that he had to be an immortal in 492 BC > when he transported some orcs to the Hollow World. Hmm... there goes my theory. I was thinking of making Karaash one of those orc warlords who conquered the Five Shires- the first one, whatever his name is. Actually, come to think of it, didn't the halflings come north c. 1500 BC or so? Then maybe that could still work... > Khoronus 36 4000 BC WotI, 25 > > Khoronous was one one of the early founders of Blackmoor, 4000 BC is the year > given for when Blackmoor civilisation begins it's meteoric rise. I've been working on a lot of Blackmoor stuff this past week. It's been interesting speculating on which of the founders of Blackmoor he might have been (assuming he was one of the founders of the Kingdom of Blackmoor- ie, DA series of modules- or just one of the founders of the barony of Blackmoor. If the former, my bet is on Garamond Bolitho, the Bishop of Blackmoor. Idle speculation, true, but...) > Madarua *E 400 BC WotI, 40 > > Madarua was a member of the Nithian Empire and attained immortality some > time after its' destruction in 500 BC, 400 BC is arbitrarily chosen. This sounds about right. My thinking is that she found the city of Cynidicea, with it's Gorm worshippers, and attained Immortality after founding her own following. > Masauwu 28 ?? WotI, 27 > > Masauwu lived in Minrothad. The Minrothad Guilds were created in 691 AC, > so any time after this is likely. Actually, Minroth founded the colony of the same name around 1100 BC. Given that, Masauwu could be much older than 691 AC- unless the M.Guilds did not officially become the M.Guilds until then? > Nyx 33 ? WotI, 29 > > Nyx is so old she does not remember his mortal existence. Actually, she does. She was a vampire on some other plane, but as no time is given for her possible mortal life, much less her immortal birth, I think it's probably safe to assume she's pretty darned old- let's put her up there with the big boys. :) > Ordana 31 ? WotI, 31 > > Ordana existed a long time ago and indead created the elven race, she > attained immortality a very long time ago. I've got her pre-6000 BC. So darned long ago, that I think that the category 'pre6000 BC' will suffice. > Protius 29 ? WotI, 32 > > Protius is a very old immortal who is of a race that predates humans. Another candidate for the pre6000 BC category. :) > Rad 22 845 AC WotIf, 8 > > In 845 AC Etienne found the Radience and used it to achieve immortality, > there is no indication of the time that this took. This one is sketchy in a lot of ways. I don't recall offhand whether it says so explicitly in PC4 or not, but it seems to me that a date around 979 AC (when the Ambers return to Mystara) is more likely. If only because- if he were immortal before Chateau d'Ambrevill disappears in 896 AC, that means that Henri and Catherine pulled one over on an Immortal!?!?! Since mortal magic doesn't affect Immortals, this one's tough to explain- especially given their levels (Henri- 12th, Catherine-17th? I think?) Although it's possible that they had outside help- X2 does mention that the d'Ambrevilles were known for cavorting with demonic/Cthonic forces... The problem with the 979 date, though, is all the Rad references in early Glantri history ('Light of Rad decision', the 'Sheperds of Rad', etc.) Unless Rad is secretly a Time Immortal (rewriting history, for shame!) or else perpetuated a big scam, a la Yav (I am the prophet of the Immortal Rad! Who? Never heard of him...) then something is amiss. More and more I like that Immortal conspiracy with Etienne's relatives idea... > Saasskas *C ?? WotI, 41 > > There is no indication in WotI about Saasskas. I put her c.0 AC. Another arbitrary assignment, but it had something to do with the timelines of the Devilfish activity. I'll try and remember the exact reasoning. > Ssu-Ma *E ?? WotI, 41 > > There is no indication in WotI about Ssu-Ma. Given that he supposedly is the father of writing, etc. I'd place him waay back with the Dawn of Civilization Immortals- c.5000 BC or so. > Usamigaras *E ?? WotI, 41 > > There is no indication in WotI about Usamigaras. As it mentions that he is the third Immortal of the Cynidicean pantheon, I'd place him sometime after Madarua becomes Immortal- c. 300 BC or so, maybe. An interesting development- one Immortal had the obeisance of the Cynidiceans, a mortal comes along and converts many of his followers, becoming Immortal herself, then comes along a third mortal, etc. Could explain the feuds between the followers that are mentioned in B(4?) where the Cynidiceans are introduced... Other notes: There is a pooka in PC1 who is mentioned as being suspected of being an Immortal. Any thoughts? Also, the fourth element of the Cynidicean worship pantheon- that Z? being that is mentioned as being some sort of evil entity. Could he be an Immortal? I know we mentioned the possibility of it being a Burrower, back when someone noted that he placed the adventure in the Hollow World. ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:23:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality > > Ssu-Ma *E ?? WotI, 41 > > > > There is no indication in WotI about Ssu-Ma. > > Given that he supposedly is the father of writing, etc. I'd place him > waay back with the Dawn of Civilization Immortals- c.5000 BC or so. If you want to be accurate with Chinese history, he should be better labeled as father of historians. Assuming I'm think of the same Ssu-Ma as the TSR people. From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 12:03:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id EAA24139; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 04:32:23 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA08995 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 10:58:55 -0600 Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 10:58:55 -0600 Message-Id: <199611091658.KAA08995@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #283 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: ab0e288f9006c957b796dc077639390b ------------------------------ From: Roundhouse Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 02:07:20 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] What is Evil? Matthew Kammann wrote: > > evil is a state of mind. > there is no difference between good or evil. > just fun. and boring. So if I slaughter 6 million people I don't qualify as evil, just interesting? The difference between good and evil is the end that they want to achieve. If you kill millions to expand your power and control, you are probably evil. If you kill millions attempting to free others from tyranny you are good. - -- I've done the math and Galileo was wrong. The world doesn't revolve around the sun, it revolves around me. Daniel J. Macchia Roundhouse@mms.net ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:41:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Shawn wrote: > > Immortal Name Level YIA Source > > Diulanna 18 ?? WotI, 18 > > Diulanna was a Neather from the area which became the Hinterlands, there > > is no other indication apart from this. > I put her c.6000 BC (note that my circa's have a _lot_ of leeway in the > case of the Immortal dates. ;). IIRC, 5000BC is when the first > civilizations begin to rise to prominence, and their mentioning of her as > a Neathar leads me to believe she is one of the early hunter-gatherer > peoples. Just a quick note that the Neathar lasted until about 3500 BC.. and who-knows-how-long before 6000 BC. That little circa is a little larger than expected, I presume.. :) > > Great One, The 26 ?? WotI, 21 > > There is no indication in WotI about The Great One. > It mentions that the Great One existed in a time before the dragons were > of different species, so I'm thinking that he is probably prehistorical- > ie, pre 6000 BC. Probably later than Ka, Ixion, Valerias, Thanatos, Odin, > Hel- possibly later than Protius, but likely before Kagyar, Calitha, and > Diulanna (who were among the first humanoid species' Immortals) I'd like to point out that, on Mystara, pre-history extends literally millions of years before 6000 BC. For example, Proteus is specifically stated to be from a race that existed "thousands and millions of years ago" on Mystara. Ka might be younger or older that Proteus, I don't know. And then there's the "forgetful" crowd, including Ixion, Thanatos, and Odin, who might be from Planescape for all we know (hey, now there's an idea.. :) ). The Great One himself was sponsored by Terra, so has to be younger than her.. as was Ka, come to think of it. > > Protius 29 ? WotI, 32 > > Protius is a very old immortal who is of a race that predates humans. > Another candidate for the pre6000 BC category. :) Mind you, his it's /far/ before 6000 BC, as in the millions of years BC.. but I suppose being a Time Immortal has a few advantages. :) > > Rad 22 845 AC WotIf, 8 > > In 845 AC Etienne found the Radience and used it to achieve immortality, > > there is no indication of the time that this took. > This one is sketchy in a lot of ways. I don't recall offhand whether it > says so explicitly in PC4 or not, but it seems to me that a date around > 979 AC (when the Ambers return to Mystara) is more likely. If only > because- if he were immortal before Chateau d'Ambrevill disappears in 896 > AC, that means that Henri and Catherine pulled one over on an Immortal!?!?! > > Since mortal magic doesn't affect Immortals, this one's tough to explain- > especially given their levels (Henri- 12th, Catherine-17th? I think?) > > Although it's possible that they had outside help- X2 does mention that > the d'Ambrevilles were known for cavorting with demonic/Cthonic forces... > > The problem with the 979 date, though, is all the Rad references in early > Glantri history ('Light of Rad decision', the 'Sheperds of Rad', etc.) > Unless Rad is secretly a Time Immortal (rewriting history, for shame!) or > else perpetuated a big scam, a la Yav (I am the prophet of the Immortal > Rad! Who? Never heard of him...) then something is amiss. > > More and more I like that Immortal conspiracy with Etienne's relatives > idea... And then there's the "Mark of Amber" module.. according to it, Rad had at least partial Immortal powers when the Chateau disappeared in 896 AC. Not to mention there's a group called the Light of Rad in 858 AC.. > Also, the fourth element of the Cynidicean worship pantheon- that Z? > being that is mentioned as being some sort of evil entity. Could he be an > Immortal? I know we mentioned the possibility of it being a Burrower, > back when someone noted that he placed the adventure in the Hollow World. Ah, the famous Zargon. I'll quote a little from the module: "Although Zargon is ancient, it is no god. It is a cunning creature that discovered its "godhood" makes it easier to get victims. Zargon was worshipped by primitive peoples in early times, but retreated underground when the primitives were wiped out by the ancestors of the Cynidiceans." - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: sleipnir@northernnet.com (JL) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 03:44:25 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] [ADMIN] Those Binary Files... >> For the record, I have let the poster of the large binary files know >> that such things shouldn't be posted to the list. At some point I think I >> will add a section to the FAQ letting people know not to send binary >> attachments. >> Sorry for the problems it may have caused anyone. > >No inconvenience. I liked 'em... I may have liked 'em, but it was a big inconvenience for me...as I have now received FIVE (yes, FIVE!!!) copies of the SAME binary files from this poster. (Apparently, Leroy, your message did no good, as I recieved more tonight.) That's okay though, I can always complain to their service provider if I get ANOTHER bloody copy of the things!!!!! (So I hope the poster is listening) ONE copy of the files is ENOUGH for everyone, thank you very much. - -Oarim ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 18:17:43 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality On Fri, 8 Nov 1996, Daniel Boese wrote: > > > Diulanna 18 ?? WotI, 18 > Just a quick note that the Neathar lasted until about 3500 BC.. and > who-knows-how-long before 6000 BC. That little circa is a little larger > than expected, I presume.. :) Well, just a tad. :) Also note that in the questions in Dragon magazine #171, it mentions that Diulanna is the Immortal that the Makai peoples of the (current-day) Ierendi Isles honor. So she should probably predate these people... maybe... Anyway, I just thought I'd point that out, as I just read it earlier today. :) > > > Great One, The 26 ?? WotI, 21 > > I'd like to point out that, on Mystara, pre-history extends literally > millions of years before 6000 BC. For example, Proteus is specifically > stated to be from a race that existed "thousands and millions of years > ago" on Mystara. Ka might be younger or older that Proteus, I don't know. > And then there's the "forgetful" crowd, including Ixion, Thanatos, and > Odin, who might be from Planescape for all we know (hey, now there's an > idea.. :) ). > Oh, absolutely in agreement here. The fact that Mystara's prehistory goes so far back is one reason I think it is sort of pointless to try and pin down exact dates on some of those really old guys. As for specifics... I think I'd probably put Protius earlier than Ka and the Great One, on the precedent that the oceans existed long before the landmasses (I don't know that there is any evidence to corroborate this theory, but I like it. ;) Also, it raises the question of where to put the time period when the Immortals (as WotI states somewhere) lived among the people of the Prime Plane and influenced their actions. > > > Rad 22 845 AC WotIf, 8 > > And then there's the "Mark of Amber" module.. according to it, Rad had at > least partial Immortal powers when the Chateau disappeared in 896 AC. Not > to mention there's a group called the Light of Rad in 858 AC.. I haven't had a chance to get MoA yet, so I didn't know about that reference. The more I come to think of it, though, the more I am of a mind that he must have been Immortal way back when, and I like the conspiracy idea, though it begs the question- what Immortal would have wanted Rad out of the way so badly that he/she/it would have conspired with Rad's relatives? > Ah, the famous Zargon. I'll quote a little from the module: > "Although Zargon is ancient, it is no god. It is a cunning creature that > discovered its "godhood" makes it easier to get victims. Zargon was > worshipped by primitive peoples in early times, but retreated underground > when the primitives were wiped out by the ancestors of the Cynidiceans." I thought I remembered something about that. Thanks- saved me the effort of having to dig it out myself. ;) My guess would be that Zargon would be on the level of the fiends, or perhaps it is something like that creature in B10 (the octopus thingy?) Maybe its long lost brother? (Given their ties to Nithia/Hutaaka... ;) ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 23:12:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality On Fri, 8 Nov 1996, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > > > > Great One, The 26 ?? WotI, 21 > > I'd like to point out that, on Mystara, pre-history extends literally > > millions of years before 6000 BC. For example, Proteus is specifically > > stated to be from a race that existed "thousands and millions of years > > ago" on Mystara. Ka might be younger or older that Proteus, I don't know. > > And then there's the "forgetful" crowd, including Ixion, Thanatos, and > > Odin, who might be from Planescape for all we know (hey, now there's an > > idea.. :) ). > Oh, absolutely in agreement here. The fact that Mystara's prehistory goes > so far back is one reason I think it is sort of pointless to try and pin > down exact dates on some of those really old guys. Which I've not tried to do, save for the most recent 7000 years or so. :) > Also, it raises the question of where to put the time period when the > Immortals (as WotI states somewhere) lived among the people of the Prime > Plane and influenced their actions. Now /this/ is an interesting thought. I'd completely forgotten about mention of this era in Mystara's past.. Anybody care to make some suggestions of the Time When Immortals Walked The Earth? :) The other idea I've had recently is 'missing' Immortals.. there seems to be a sudden crop of Immortals in the past few thousand years. There's probably been similar eras in Mystara's past, when a few dozen Immortals popped up within a few millenia of each other. The question is, where did all these other Immortals go? To other worlds, or planes, or dimensions? Lost in the Vortex? Faded when their followers disappeared? Something entirely different and more interesting? :) > > > > Rad 22 845 AC WotIf, 8 > > And then there's the "Mark of Amber" module.. according to it, Rad had at > > least partial Immortal powers when the Chateau disappeared in 896 AC. Not > > to mention there's a group called the Light of Rad in 858 AC.. > I haven't had a chance to get MoA yet, so I didn't know about that > reference. The more I come to think of it, though, the more I am of a > mind that he must have been Immortal way back when, and I like the > conspiracy idea, though it begs the question- what Immortal would have > wanted Rad out of the way so badly that he/she/it would have conspired > with Rad's relatives? Well, there's always the old favorite, Alphaks.. he seems to have his finger rather subtly in a whole lot of Glantrian stuff (especially if you've read the Dragonlord trilogy ;) ).. > > Ah, the famous Zargon. I'll quote a little from the module: > > "Although Zargon is ancient, it is no god. It is a cunning creature that > > discovered its "godhood" makes it easier to get victims. Zargon was > > worshipped by primitive peoples in early times, but retreated underground > > when the primitives were wiped out by the ancestors of the Cynidiceans." > I thought I remembered something about that. Thanks- saved me the effort > of having to dig it out myself. ;) You're welcome - I'm usually not averse to being a reference typist. :) > My guess would be that Zargon would be on the level of the fiends, or > perhaps it is something like that creature in B10 (the octopus thingy?) > Maybe its long lost brother? (Given their ties to Nithia/Hutaaka... ;) Dang, I've never managed to find a copy of B10.. Could you do a quick summary of what's in it about this "octopus thingy"? (And, if possible, the Hutaaka? They're one of my favored races, and I'm peeved at myself for not knowing what B10 says about them.. :) ) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Shelby Michlin Date: Sat, 09 Nov 96 10:28:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] [ADMIN] Those Binary Files... - -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- I've never had a problem with large files in my email. I especially like Character Sheets. Just wanted to express another opinion, Shelby Michlin - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > Leroy Van Camp III writes: > > Mystarans... > > For the record, I have let the poster of the large binary files know > > that such things shouldn't be posted to the list. At some point I think I > > will add a section to the FAQ letting people know not to send binary > > attachments. > > Sorry for the problems it may have caused anyone. > > No inconvenience. I liked 'em... > "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive!" > Carleton U. > Computer Science, Software > Email addresses: jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca > cq793@freenet.carleton.ca > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #283 ***************************** mystara-digest Thursday, 14 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 284 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 18:37:47 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Hardball teams This is a message I sent to Herve to be included in his 1014 AC timeline for NACE and also in the upcoming Micheal's timeline. I forward it to the list, maybe someone is interested in it. >These are the teams for the 1014 AC Super-Hardball finals: >Aquas: Seashield 49ers (Seashield was founded in 949 AC... and S.Francisco 49ers is my favourite NFL team :) >Dawnrim: Alinquin Cowboys >Horken: Horken Dolphins >Lagrius: Lagrius Lakers (hometown Lago Springs, not the capital) >Meriander: Alchemos Oilers >Notrion: Aaslin Ravens >Surshield: Spearpoint Mariners >Blackrock: Skyfyr Bears >Floating Ar: Haaken Pegataurs (hometown: the little floating island of Haaken) >Alpha: Norwold Wyrms >Thotia: Edairo Pharaos >East Portage: East Portage Packers >Ekto: Ekto Steelers >Trikelios: Trikelios Buccaneers >Qeodhar: Farend Whalers >Karameikos: Mirros Knights >Aeria: Featherfall Supersonics ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 18:32:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. At 16.13 07/11/96 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 96-11-07 14:00:08 EST, Matthew Levy wrote: > >>wait ... if this is burning up coin, the currency would get deflated ... >>less coin available=increased purchasing power ... maybe forcing a switch >>from the gold standard to paper money!!! which would then allow inflation >>as normal. > >Quick, someone get a gnome. We need a printing press NOW! :) Gnome ? Did someone ask for a gnome ? How can I help you sir ? :-) Just a note about paper money: Shadow Elves have a sort of paper money, it's named Kalafi and it's produced from mushrooms. This allows SE to carry with them a lot of money at pratically no encumbrance when travelling in their underground caves. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: Estlor Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 22:18:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams > >These are the teams for the 1014 AC Super-Hardball finals: > >Aquas: Seashield 49ers (Seashield was founded in 949 AC... and S.Francisco > 49ers is my favourite NFL team :) > >Dawnrim: Alinquin Cowboys > >Horken: Horken Dolphins > >Lagrius: Lagrius Lakers (hometown Lago Springs, not the capital) > >Meriander: Alchemos Oilers > >Notrion: Aaslin Ravens > >Surshield: Spearpoint Mariners > >Blackrock: Skyfyr Bears > >Floating Ar: Haaken Pegataurs (hometown: the little floating island of Haaken) > >Alpha: Norwold Wyrms > >Thotia: Edairo Pharaos > >East Portage: East Portage Packers > >Ekto: Ekto Steelers > >Trikelios: Trikelios Buccaneers > >Qeodhar: Farend Whalers > >Karameikos: Mirros Knights > >Aeria: Featherfall Supersonics What, no Bengals? Estlor ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 18:45:21 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, JL wrote: [Long discourse on Time Immortals' goals and the example of Kavian clipped for brevity's sake] I like this a lot- It really sounds like a good idea for plotting an Immortal of Time's path to Immortality. Question though- was Kavian supposed to be the first Emperor? You mention that he is still missing, but never come back to that point... I'm hanging in suspense over here! ;) On the subject of time, once again- I have been thinking about this issue, and think that allowing the possibility of 'changing' the future would be interesting, but naturally it carries with it big consequences: For one thing, making big changes in the timeline would have drastic, and not necessarily foreseen consequences on one's future/present. Sort of a ripples in the lake effect- even the tiniest disturbance can have wide ranging consequences. Subsequently, the Time Immortals spend a lot of... well, time, trying to prevent such occurrences from happening. As for Chronomancers, any of them worth his salt would also realize this, and hence would be foolish to embark on any major time changing without thoroughly researching the possible consequences- one wrong move, and he could wipe out his own life!! Hence, they, too would look down on any tampering with the timelines. The most interesting point I have to make on this subject (interesting in my opinion, natch), is that the best means of tampering with the timeline would be to do so within so-called 'established' history. In other words, if history has it that a certain Emperor Bob rose from the ranks of the destitute, became a famous warrior, married Empress Joe's daughter, and thus established his empire, if one wanted to establish one's own Empire, the best route would be to travel back in time and take Bob's place, following in his footsteps exactly (even to the point of adopting his identity), thus setting up the Empire for one to claim in the future (one's present). Becoming one's own grandfather, so to speak. Of course, it is a lot more complex than this, but this would be the safest way for a Chronomancer to 'alter' the future in his/her favor. (It would also probably lead to an elitist attitude among the Chronomancers- sort of an "I'm so much more subtle than you are" attitude). ... I think I had something else to add, but I can't for the life of me remember what at the moment... :( ------------------------------ From: "Jorge Villalobos" Date: 11 Nov 1996 02:34:14 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] priests >Can anybody post me names of the gods, duties of their priesthoods, =20 >requirements, powers of the priests and the spheres of influence, or a =20 >reference, where I can find it? > The Red Steel Boxed Set has very good information regarding the inmortals and the spheres. For the powers of the priests you can read the Karameikos Adventurer's guide (Halav, Petra & Zirchev); for the other inmortals I use the guidelines of the Complete Priests handbook. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- | ==(W{==========- | | || (.--.) | | | \_,|**|,__ Jorge Villalobos Duran | | `\ ' `--' ), Universidad de los Andes | | `\_. .__/\ \ factol@hotmail.com | | | . |""""| jo-villa@uniandes.edu.co | | /==0==-\<>/ jvillalobos@envirolink.org | | | / \ | Tel (571) 2585382 | | ( ) ( ) | | | ; | ; | | | ; | ; | - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___ _____ .'/,-Y" "~-. l.Y ^. /\ _\_ i ___/" "\ DOUGH!!!! | /" "\ o ! l ] o !__./ \ _ _ \.___./ "~\ X \/ \ ___./ ( \ ___. _..--~~" ~`-. ` Z,-- / \ \__. ( / ______) \ l /-----~~" / Y \ / | "x______.^ | \ To the tune of ``Jingle Bells'': Azathoth Azathoth Azathoth, the King Center of the Universe, Insanity he brings, Hey! - --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "Kat Path" Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:47:34 -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Magic in the Hollow World Hi, I want to know were can I find a complet list of spells and their effects on HW. Which work and which don't, unknown or new. If no such list exist please help me build one. Alex - ---- Alexandre Gregoire aka Kat Path - -Programmeur & Consultant Technique- Les Productions FMT E-Mail: kat.path@spherenet.com Site Web: http://www.spherenet.com/fmt/kat-path/index.html - -33- ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:17:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Magic in the Hollow World > I want to know were can I find a complet list of spells and their effects > on HW. Which work and which don't, unknown or new. If no such list exist > please help me build one. There's a complete list for OD&D spells, and what sort of spells are affected in general, in the main Hollow World box. For post-Wrath effects, and particulars for AD&D spells, take a look at the Poor Wizard's Almanac III. (I don't recall if the information is also in I or II.) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:18:17 +1000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] priests >>Can anybody post me names of the gods, duties of their priesthoods, =20 >>requirements, powers of the priests and the spheres of influence, or a =20 >>reference, where I can find it? Or you could always visit my homepage http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 and follow the immortals link. This should have what you want. >The Red Steel Boxed Set has very good information regarding the inmortals and >the spheres. For the powers of the priests you can read the Karameikos >Adventurer's guide (Halav, Petra & Zirchev); for the other inmortals I use the >guidelines of the Complete Priests handbook. > ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 20:35:22 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams At 22.18 09/01/96 -0500, Estlor wrote: >> >These are the teams for the 1014 AC Super-Hardball finals: > >What, no Bengals? We can easily introduce the Bengals in two ways: 1) Pick a city on mainland Alphatia before WotI and call it Bengal, now they're in the HW, but they can still play Hardball 2) In his NACE timeline Herve designed the hardball season the following way: each nation has a national championship and the winner goes to the NACE final (called Superhardball) on Ionace. Maybe this time the Bengals didn't made it to the final, maybe they'll be luckier in 1015 AC... who knows... Anyway, I'm working on a list of Hardball champions pre WotI. If you want to submit your favourite team (name and hometown) it would be appreciated. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: Mike Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:19:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] priests >Can anybody post me names of the gods, duties of their priesthoods, =20 >requirements, powers of the priests and the spheres of influence, or a =20 >reference, where I can find it? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There is a fairly good listing of what you might be looking for at: http://moray.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/mystara/immortals/ Hopefully this will help. ------------------------------ From: "Jorge Villalobos" Date: 11 Nov 1996 05:06:56 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alignment Priests >1) Where does the character's spell casting power come from? Tough one, never thought about it. Maybe all the inmortals that are Lawful Good help these priests? > >2) What are the character's granted powers? The ones that a normal priest from the PHB gets, i.e turn undead, etc.. > >3) What Priestly Function or ceremonies can teh PC perform? Any, remember that in Mystara the major alignment (Lawful, Neutral or Chaotic) is the one that counts (the second one is not that important), what these philosophers do is exactly that (ethos philosophy). They can be members of any church (as long as alignmets restrictions are checked) and performs the ceremonies that the church trains them for. > - ----------------------------------------------------------------- | ==(W{==========- | | || (.--.) | | | \_,|**|,__ Jorge Villalobos Duran | | `\ ' `--' ), Universidad de los Andes | | `\_. .__/\ \ factol@hotmail.com | | | . |""""| jo-villa@uniandes.edu.co | | /==0==-\<>/ jvillalobos@envirolink.org | | | / \ | Tel (571) 2585382 | | ( ) ( ) | | | ; | ; | | | ; | ; | - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___ _____ .'/,-Y" "~-. l.Y ^. /\ _\_ i ___/" "\ DOUGH!!!! | /" "\ o ! l ] o !__./ \ _ _ \.___./ "~\ From ???@??? Fri Nov 15 09:06:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id DAA23589; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 03:13:19 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA19753 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:50:54 -0600 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:50:54 -0600 Message-Id: <199611141550.JAA19753@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #284 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 0b840f599d5e01ba97c0f6c8c5602c62 X \/ \ ___./ ( \ ___. _..--~~" ~`-. ` Z,-- / \ \__. ( / ______) \ l /-----~~" / Y \ / | "x______.^ | \ To the tune of ``Jingle Bells'': Azathoth Azathoth Azathoth, the King Center of the Universe, Insanity he brings, Hey! - --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 23:42:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams Is hardball a sport describe in a supplement somewhere? I can't quite remember. And can you give us the reasons for some of the team names (Oilers, steelers, etc). I don't have my Gaz. with me, so I can't look up the cities. Fabrizio Paoli pontificated: > >Dawnrim: Alinquin Cowboys Does this name sound a bit too "modern?" > >Thotia: Edairo Pharaos This may or may not be appropriate. Pharao are viewed as a incarnation of the god (IIRC), and probably should not be used on something as mundan as a sport team. Also, the title shouldn't be used by commoners (or anybody else). Beside, it will be too much a disgrace to the Pharao if the team sucks. A similar story, when China first start printing out stamps, they didn't put the image of the emperor on there, because A) the face of the emperor should not be viewed by so many people, and B) putting postmark across the picture of the emperor is too much of a sacrilage. > >Trikelios: Trikelios Buccaneers This name might also be inappropriate, as pirates are a real threat to the people at that time. One of the possible names considered for the new Baltimore Ravens was the Bombers, meant to be the air force bombers, but was rejected due to the possible image connection to the terrorist bombing. Another example are the Washington Bullets which might became the Wizards. > >Aeria: Featherfall Supersonics Do they even know what the speed of sound is? - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (Shawn) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:16:08 +1000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality >From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" >Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 20:16:03 -0700 (MST) >Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality > >> Immortal Name Level YIA Source >> >> >> >> Bartziluth *C ?? WotI, 39 >> >> There is no indication in WotI about Bartziluth. > >I put Bartiziluth c.500 BC, though I don't recall _exactly_ why at the >moment. It mentions that he was a Bugburbian bugbear, and since Bugburbia >wasn't founded until after King Loark's horde pops up in the Broken Lands >again, maybe this is the reason I put it around that time period. IIRC, >this is about the time that King Loark's horde pops up, and the tribes >unite, so this would be the earliest possible time. > >> Forsetta 7 614 AC .html >> >> Ottar the Just started his quest for immortality in 614 AC after he started >> the Kingdom of Vestland, there is no indication how long that took. > >Note that the information on Forsetta as Ottar is something of my own >devising, and that it doesn't necessarily mean anything. ;) Yeah, but noone else has written anything else yet and what you wrote was pretty good. Therefore for those two reasons I considered what you wrote to be as close to canon as anything else. And since I have said that the source is a .html file then it is not as if I am hiding anything from anybody. >I think I figured that his Path of the Polymath probably took a couple >hundred years, so maybe c.900 AC as his 'birthdate'? Also, given his >small following, it seems reasonable to assume that it may be (in large >part) due to his philosophy being a relatively recent development, so >this would seem to work well with being around 900 AC or so. Yeah that was something else I was looking into - how long does each path to Immortality take. I haven't quantified anything yet, but you're right the path of the Polymath does seem to take people about 200 - 300 years to complete. >> Kagyar 28 5500 BC WotI, 24 >> >> Kagyar was a member of the Brute-Men who began to fall in upon themselves in >> 5300 BC. 5500 BC taken as an arbitrary date before this in the assumption >> the Kagyar was not a Brute-Man at that time. > >I have him tentatively as being closer to 6000 BC, as it seems that the >Brute Men/Neanderthals were probably dying out on the outer world around >this time, giving way before the more advanced Neathar. I don't recall if >this is backed up by any more substantial information offhand. Hmmm >> Karaash 5 ?? WotI, 24 >> >> The only indication on Karaash is that he had to be an immortal in 492 BC >> when he transported some orcs to the Hollow World. > >Hmm... there goes my theory. I was thinking of making Karaash one of >those orc warlords who conquered the Five Shires- the first one, whatever >his name is. Actually, come to think of it, didn't the halflings come >north c. 1500 BC or so? Then maybe that could still work... Yeah, why not. >> Masauwu 28 ?? WotI, 27 >> >> Masauwu lived in Minrothad. The Minrothad Guilds were created in 691 AC, >> so any time after this is likely. > >Actually, Minroth founded the colony of the same name around 1100 BC. >Given that, Masauwu could be much older than 691 AC- unless the M.Guilds >did not officially become the M.Guilds until then? I assume that he was from the actual Minrothad Guilds which became known as such after 691 AC. This makes him another one of them fast-moving immortals but I always liked Masauwu so ... >> Saasskas *C ?? WotI, 41 >> >> There is no indication in WotI about Saasskas. > >I put her c.0 AC. Another arbitrary assignment, but it had something to >do with the timelines of the Devilfish activity. I'll try and remember >the exact reasoning. Yeah, but I don't seem to recall PC3 actually saying anything either way. >Other notes: > >There is a pooka in PC1 who is mentioned as being suspected of being an >Immortal. Any thoughts? Have to look that one up. All the Creature Cruicibles seemed to add a lot of immortals to the whole pantheon without really describing them (except for PC4 which was well written any rate). >------------------------------ > >From: Shin Chyang Yu >Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:23:24 -0500 (EST) >Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality > >> > Ssu-Ma *E ?? WotI, 41 >> > >> > There is no indication in WotI about Ssu-Ma. >> >> Given that he supposedly is the father of writing, etc. I'd place him >> waay back with the Dawn of Civilization Immortals- c.5000 BC or so. > >If you want to be accurate with Chinese history, he should be better >labeled as father of historians. Assuming I'm think of the same >Ssu-Ma as the TSR people. Yeah, TSR was probably in one of their creative moods that day. >------------------------------ > >From: Daniel Boese >Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:41:30 -0500 (EST) >Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality > >> > Great One, The 26 ?? WotI, 21 >> > There is no indication in WotI about The Great One. >> It mentions that the Great One existed in a time before the dragons were >> of different species, so I'm thinking that he is probably prehistorical- >> ie, pre 6000 BC. Probably later than Ka, Ixion, Valerias, Thanatos, Odin, >> Hel- possibly later than Protius, but likely before Kagyar, Calitha, and >> Diulanna (who were among the first humanoid species' Immortals) > I'd like to point out that, on Mystara, pre-history extends literally >millions of years before 6000 BC. For example, Proteus is specifically >stated to be from a race that existed "thousands and millions of years >ago" on Mystara. Ka might be younger or older that Proteus, I don't know. >And then there's the "forgetful" crowd, including Ixion, Thanatos, and >Odin, who might be from Planescape for all we know (hey, now there's an >idea.. :) ). > The Great One himself was sponsored by Terra, so has to be younger than >her.. as was Ka, come to think of it. Yeah I sort of didn't really read up on the Great One as much as I should have. I was relying on my memory from the original Masters Rulebook (I think it was) that said the Great One and the other three dragon immortals have probably been killed a number of times by treasure hungry people and that a new Dragon chosen by someone (I guess Terra) who was considered right for the role was made the next Great One, for example. I guess this old idea has been well and truly thrown out now that these dragons have been made immortals. >------------------------------ > >From: Daniel Boese >Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 23:12:22 -0500 (EST) >Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality > >> > > > Rad 22 845 AC WotIf, 8 >> > And then there's the "Mark of Amber" module.. according to it, Rad had at >> > least partial Immortal powers when the Chateau disappeared in 896 AC. Not >> > to mention there's a group called the Light of Rad in 858 AC.. >> I haven't had a chance to get MoA yet, so I didn't know about that >> reference. The more I come to think of it, though, the more I am of a >> mind that he must have been Immortal way back when, and I like the >> conspiracy idea, though it begs the question- what Immortal would have >> wanted Rad out of the way so badly that he/she/it would have conspired >> with Rad's relatives? > Well, there's always the old favorite, Alphaks.. he seems to have his >finger rather subtly in a whole lot of Glantrian stuff (especially if >you've read the Dragonlord trilogy ;) ).. Yeah, but Alphaks is not really smart enough. Actually looking at his stats in WotI and comparing it with other immortals of about his level Alphaks is lacking a lot. I mean, I would rate his stats as quite respectable for a mortal, but for an immortal ... >------------------------------ Shawn Stanley I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html ------------------------------ From: Gabriele Ferri Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:23:37 +-100 Subject: [Mystara] Chamaleon mans Hi everybody I had LOTS of things to do this month, but I've got a quite nice idea: I was looking in the B1-9 OD&D module, and I found that creature, the = chamaleon man. Hey, it's nice! So here's what I thought: tha chamaleon men's race is really ancient and is realated to elves and, = as some scholars say, metamorphosis. They have the ability to change = their skin's color in a very fast and accurate way without using any = magic. They can also teleport in a 36 meters range without errors (this = is a magical ability). Their culture is primitive (stone age), but they are powerful druids. a typical chamaleon men's village: is a big room digged underground (5/10 meters deep) in a forest. In this = main room the tribe eat and makes social relationships. Some tunnels = lead to other areas: there are a smaller room where the tribe sleeps, a = small temple, a store-room and the chief's room. Note that CM aren't = very good diggers, so their tunnels aren't like the dwarven ones. the temple: CM worship Csyamanog, a minor immortal CM who has been sponsored by = Terra and now try to protect his people. CM are really religious people, = they onor their Immortal many times a day, and every activity is done = for his glory. This feature makes them close toward strangers. Not = xenophobes, but diffidents especially with men and humanoids, mainly = because only very few of them have ever seen a man: so they have legend = about mankind ('You know, if you don't go to bed now, I'll call the bad = creature-who-cannot-change-his-color who will eat you!') economy and culture: CM are mainly hunters, but they also grow giant mushrooms in an = underground room digged under a great oak's (or similar tree) roots. = They don't know how to produce bronze or iron, and those who find a = steel dagger abandoned near a human village are looked with awe and = respect. They usually fight and hunt with bow and bone-edged arrows, but = they also use clubs and primitive axes. They know the fire and they can = write complex ideograms. the tribe: the average CM tribe is composed by 25 hunters (both males and females), = 15 mushroom-farmers, a chief and his harem (4/5 females), a shaman = (cleric of Csyamanog) and 7/8 young CM. In war-time both hunters and = farmers (without difference between males and females) fight. CM druids: They're just like the normal one, but they're highly respected by the = CM. They are the ones who see more frequently humans (especially other = druids). Mystara CM population: There are CM settlements in Karameikos and Darokin. A more advanced = tribe lives in the Thanegioth Isles (I hope I wrote it right...), where = it's at war whits koprus. Thanegioth CM: They were kopru's slaves until 975 AC, when they rebelled leaded by a CM = cleric inspired by Csyamanog. After that, this tribe has been = Csyamanog's primary interest: he's teaching them how to work iron and = how to fight better. The war they're fighting could end in about 1025 = AC. That's all. Did you like it? Criticism is well accepted Ah, one more question: is there any immortal interested in koprus? Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #284 ***************************** mystara-digest Friday, 15 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 285 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: - Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:08:56 +-100 Subject: SV: [Mystara] Hardball teams - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD226.3499B760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Exsqueeze Me... Can somebody pleeeaase tell me what Hardball is and the rules for it? Tarjeh, Knight of Ixion, DM in Red Steel, Mystara and Ravenloft. Renegade Paladin in Waterdeep Bastard Son Half-Elven Prince and master archer of Roesone, King of Coreanys and Trigger-Happy Assassin in Seattle 2058! - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD226.3499B760 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhULAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAFNNVFAAbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABEAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYA AAAeAAEwAQAAABMAAAAnbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAFgAAAFNNVFA6TVlTVEFS QS1MQElPLkNPTQAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAD0CwBCIAHABgAAABJ UE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAHQAAAFNWOiBbTXlzdGFyYV0gSGFyZGJhbGwg dGVhbXMAEAoBBYADAA4AAADMBwsADgAMAAgAOAAEADwBASCAAwAOAAAAzAcLAA4ADAAEACEABAAh AQEJgAEAIQAAAENDREFENkE4MTYzRUQwMTE5QjMzNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAPYGAQOQBgAcAwAAEAAA AAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AIDAsDoc0rsBHgBwAAEAAAAdAAAA U1Y6IFtNeXN0YXJhXSBIYXJkYmFsbCB0ZWFtcwAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABu9IcOrCo1trNPhYR 0JszREVTVAAAAAADAAYQWgR3aQMABxD5AAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAARVhTUVVFRVpFTUVDQU5TT01F Qk9EWVBMRUVFQUFTRVRFTExNRVdIQVRIQVJEQkFMTElTQU5EVEhFUlVMRVNGT1JJVD9UQVJKRUgs S05JR0hUT0ZJWElPTixETUlOUkVEU1RFRQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAM0BAADJAQAAxgIAAExaRnWsFgZq /wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQH EwKAfQqACM8J2TvxFg8yNTUCgAqBDbELYMBuZzEwNDQK+xRRNQvyYwBAIAqFCotsaQwzNg3wGdsg RXhzInEKUGV6ZQXQZS6rHjAKhUMDkXMDcGUG4BhkeSALUAngZWFhNRGwIBPQbAMgB4Agd9URgHQK hUgLEWIHQAMgVQQAIABwZCAwaB3wch51H7AEIAIQBcBpdD8FGvxUCsBqZWgsIBJLAwBnaAVAb2Yg KEl4aQIgLAqFRE37IfADoFIJgAYAE9AgUCTAFk0TsQrAYSIjUmF2HwnwFaABgB5WJrBuZWfyYQ2w IFAHQCmAJoEmgU5XIOAEkA2wZXAKhUIfIAAnkSbRAiAhYWxmLZxFbChBKbAFEG5jHfD3IjIAwBPB cgqFCsARcASQbyVCCAAHkAIgZSTBC4BnvyVCCFAWEABwE7AiI1QFEJRnZwSQLSFwcHAfgH5BBBAg AACQKiMGYCDgdMUfsCAB0DU4IRnNE1D6bxPQYwVAGvwa/xwPM+8LCrIVMQA5UAAAAAMAEBAAAAAA AwAREAEAAABAAAcwQL2bnRvSuwFAAAgwQL2bnRvSuwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABTVjogAAAAACTQ - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD226.3499B760-- ------------------------------ From: - Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:16:44 +-100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chamaleon mans - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD226.3B69CBC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable - ---------- Gabriele Ferri[SMTP:fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it] 14. november 1996 16:23 'Mystara discussion list' [Mystara] Chamaleon mans Hi everybody I had LOTS of things to do this month, but I've got a quite nice idea: I was looking in the B1-9 OD&D module, and I found that creature, the = chamaleon man. Hey, it's nice! So here's what I thought: tha chamaleon men's race is really ancient and is realated to elves and, = as some scholars say, metamorphosis. They have the ability to change = their skin's color in a very fast and accurate way without using any = magic. They can also teleport in a 36 meters range without errors (this = is a magical ability). Their culture is primitive (stone age), but they are powerful druids. a typical chamaleon men's village: is a big room digged underground (5/10 meters deep) in a forest. In this = main room the tribe eat and makes social relationships. Some tunnels = lead to other areas: there are a smaller room where the tribe sleeps, a = small temple, a store-room and the chief's room. Note that CM aren't = very good diggers, so their tunnels aren't like the dwarven ones. the temple: CM worship Csyamanog, a minor immortal CM who has been sponsored by = Terra and now try to protect his people. CM are really religious people, = they onor their Immortal many times a day, and every activity is done = for his glory. This feature makes them close toward strangers. Not = xenophobes, but diffidents especially with men and humanoids, mainly = because only very few of them have ever seen a man: so they have legend = about mankind ('You know, if you don't go to bed now, I'll call the bad = creature-who-cannot-change-his-color who will eat you!') economy and culture: CM are mainly hunters, but they also grow giant mushrooms in an = underground room digged under a great oak's (or similar tree) roots. = They don't know how to produce bronze or iron, and those who find a = steel dagger abandoned near a human village are looked with awe and = respect. They usually fight and hunt with bow and bone-edged arrows, but = they also use clubs and primitive axes. They know the fire and they can = write complex ideograms. the tribe: the average CM tribe is composed by 25 hunters (both males and females), = 15 mushroom-farmers, a chief and his harem (4/5 females), a shaman = (cleric of Csyamanog) and 7/8 young CM. In war-time both hunters and = farmers (without difference between males and females) fight. CM druids: They're just like the normal one, but they're highly respected by the = CM. They are the ones who see more frequently humans (especially other = druids). Mystara CM population: There are CM settlements in Karameikos and Darokin. A more advanced = tribe lives in the Thanegioth Isles (I hope I wrote it right...), where = it's at war whits koprus. Thanegioth CM: They were kopru's slaves until 975 AC, when they rebelled leaded by a CM = cleric inspired by Csyamanog. After that, this tribe has been = Csyamanog's primary interest: he's teaching them how to work iron and = how to fight better. The war they're fighting could end in about 1025 = AC. That's all. Did you like it? Criticism is well accepted Ah, one more question: is there any immortal interested in koprus? Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it If these Chamelon Men are similar to the Wallara of the Orc's Head = Peninsula, they are the children of the Immortal dragon Great One, and = they are under His protection. They are not related to elves,=20 but to Lizard Men, Gator Men etc. Their culture stopped evolvin some hundred years ago because the Aranea = of Herath were fucking up their genes and turned them into Shazaka and = Gurrashes. 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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD226.3B69CBC0-- ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:27:03 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams At 23.42 10/11/96 -0500, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >Is hardball a sport describe in a supplement somewhere? I can't >quite remember. Hardball is described in Dawn of the Emperors, in the small booklet about Alphatia. >And can you give us the reasons for some of >the team names (Oilers, steelers, etc). I don't have my Gaz. >with me, so I can't look up the cities. Ok, I'll explain those names, but before going on let me say that it's not sure that those names will be included in the upcoming Micheal's timeline. I'm still working with Herve on private e-mail, because he said that some of those names were too NFL-like. Alchemos Oilers: I was looking for a name related with alchemy and that one was the first that occured to me. Herve proposed Alchemos Transmuters and I think this is better. Ekto Steelers: Ekto is renowned for metallurgy, there's also a College of Metals. Aaslin Ravens: just a name, no particular explanation.. Spearpoint Mariners: Spearpoint is a fortress city, inhabited by soldiers and built to protect Bellisaria from the Minaeans. Skyfyr Bears: Bears are a common sight in the forests around Skyfyr Haaken Pegataurs: Pegataurs because they're common in Floatin Ar and Haaken as homage to our hero Norwold Wyrms: Norwold is rich in dragons East Portage Packers: trading is the main industry of East Portage, traders pack their things.... I like Brett Favre and the Green Bay Packers.... Farend Whalers: whaling is one of the major source of income in Qheodar Mirros Knights: according to Herve's timeline the Karameikan team was invited to the Superhardball and I found this name appropriated for a Karameikan team. >> >Dawnrim: Alinquin Cowboys > >Does this name sound a bit too "modern?" Maybe... Herve proposes the Coppertown Red Skins, probably referring to the copper skin of Alphatians. Dawnrim is a poor country, one of the major industries there are cattle, sheeps and goats, maybe they're the Alinquin Shepherds but it doesn't sound impressive. >> >Thotia: Edairo Pharaos > >This may or may not be appropriate. Pharao are viewed as a >incarnation of the god (IIRC), and probably should not be >used on something as mundan as a sport team. Also, the title >shouldn't be used by commoners (or anybody else). Beside, it >will be too much a disgrace to the Pharao if the team sucks. >A similar story, when China first start printing out stamps, >they didn't put the image of the emperor on there, because >A) the face of the emperor should not be viewed by so many >people, and B) putting postmark across the picture of the >emperor is too much of a sacrilage. Edairo Sphinxes is better ? > >> >Trikelios: Trikelios Buccaneers > >This name might also be inappropriate, as pirates are a real >threat to the people at that time. One of the possible names >considered for the new Baltimore Ravens was the Bombers, meant >to be the air force bombers, but was rejected due to the >possible image connection to the terrorist bombing. Another >example are the Washington Bullets which might became the >Wizards. But the name of such a team should sound as a threat to rouse fear in the opponents. Anyway we can change it.... but I've no ideas and the PWA are of little help... just a few names: Mighty Ducks, Orioles, Bengals (just to make Estlor happy :), Marlins, Crew (is this the name of one of those new US soccer teams ?)... > >> >Aeria: Featherfall Supersonics > >Do they even know what the speed of sound is? > Mmmhh probably not, but who knows... Anyway Herve proposes Featherfall Plumes, but I don't like Feather and Plumes together. Suggestions ? I'm trying to create names for pre-WotI Alphatian teams, the first one is Shraek Beholders. Suggestions are appreciated. ************** From ???@??? Sat Nov 16 11:17:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA14320; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 19:47:01 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA27979 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 02:26:24 -0600 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 02:26:24 -0600 Message-Id: <199611150826.CAA27979@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #285 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 9d7542e8c18eff3df4e551c6c2388dc9 Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (Shawn) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:10:37 +1100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality >> Immortal Name Level YIA Source >> >> Bartziluth *C ?? WotI, 39 >> >> There is no indication in WotI about Bartziluth. > >I put Bartiziluth c.500 BC, though I don't recall _exactly_ why at the >moment. It mentions that he was a Bugburbian bugbear, and since Bugburbia >wasn't founded until after King Loark's horde pops up in the Broken Lands >again, maybe this is the reason I put it around that time period. IIRC, >this is about the time that King Loark's horde pops up, and the tribes >unite, so this would be the earliest possible time. Bartziluth was a Broken Lands bugbear. Although the Broken Lands was created as such in 3000 BC humanoid settlement in it is first mentioned when Loark settles there in 1709 BC. Anytime from then is possible. >> Saasskas *C ?? WotI, 41 >> >> There is no indication in WotI about Saasskas. > >I put her c.0 AC. Another arbitrary assignment, but it had something to >do with the timelines of the Devilfish activity. I'll try and remember >the exact reasoning. 500 AC/PC3, 59 Saasskas earned immortality and then she spent several centuries on other planes. She returned to find that Tritons had migrated to the Sunlit Sea. This migration occurred in 200 BC, therefore 500 AC is an arbitrary date depending upon how many centuries Saasskas spent on other planes and how long the trions had been in the Sunlit Sea when she refound them. >There is a pooka in PC1 who is mentioned as being suspected of being an >Immortal. Any thoughts? Can't find this pooka immortal. Page? >> > Ssu-Ma *E ?? WotI, 41 >> > >> > There is no indication in WotI about Ssu-Ma. >> >> Given that he supposedly is the father of writing, etc. I'd place him >> waay back with the Dawn of Civilization Immortals- c.5000 BC or so. > >If you want to be accurate with Chinese history, he should be better >labeled as father of historians. Assuming I'm think of the same >Ssu-Ma as the TSR people. 4000 BC/WotI, 41 Ssu-Ma is the father of Written Knowledge though WotI gives no indication if he actually created writing although he may have created spell books and magical scrolls. Therefore he would seem to be a very old immortal, 4000 BC is an arbitrary date. >> > Great One, The 26 ?? WotI, 21 >> > There is no indication in WotI about The Great One. >> It mentions that the Great One existed in a time before the dragons were >> of different species, so I'm thinking that he is probably prehistorical- >> ie, pre 6000 BC. Probably later than Ka, Ixion, Valerias, Thanatos, Odin, >> Hel- possibly later than Protius, but likely before Kagyar, Calitha, and >> Diulanna (who were among the first humanoid species' Immortals) > I'd like to point out that, on Mystara, pre-history extends literally >millions of years before 6000 BC. For example, Proteus is specifically >stated to be from a race that existed "thousands and millions of years >ago" on Mystara. Ka might be younger or older that Proteus, I don't know. >And then there's the "forgetful" crowd, including Ixion, Thanatos, and >Odin, who might be from Planescape for all we know (hey, now there's an >idea.. :) ). > The Great One himself was sponsored by Terra, so has to be younger than >her.. as was Ka, come to think of it. ??/WotI, 21 The Great One was hatched in a time when dragon races were not quite so distinct from one another although it seems he did not attain immortality until some time afterwards. There have been other Great Ones before the current with new ones apparently being chosen apparently either by Terra who chose the current Great One or by right of conquest by killing the current Great One. There is no indication how long the current Great One has been in his position. Shawn Stanley I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran s9406058@student.anu.edu.au http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html ------------------------------ From: Kaviyd@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:21:57 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams In a message dated 96-11-14 09:29:11 EST, scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu (Shin Chyang Yu) writes: << Another example are the Washington Bullets which might became the Wizards. >> I still remember the joke that went around when that name was first proposed: Folks wanted to change the name of the "Washington Bullets" to something that was not so closely associated with violence. The name that they finally settled on was simply the "Bullets". ------------------------------ From: TSRBruce@aol.com Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 12:56:20 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. In a message dated 96-11-07 23:06:30 EST, Jsmill wrote: << I bet the dragons would get really honked off if humans started resorting to paper currency... especially the Reds. If they sneezed accidentally- Whoosh! There go their chances of attaining Immortality. Maybe this is why Mystara still uses the gold standard? Oh, wait- doesn't Darokin use paper for large transactions of money? They'd better not get too carried away, or they might be facing a plague of dragons soon. There'd be another Great Rain of Fire on their hands. :)>> Perhaps this was a plot from the Darokinian merchants to encourage dragons to leave Darokin instead. "No gold?" says the dragon, "Bah, this place is worthless. Let's move our lairs out to Rockhome. Yeah, these little guys always have gold and gem. None of that paper stuff. They're a bit harder to chew, but they're tastier... less filling too." :) Bruce Heard ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:17:01 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Shawn wrote: > >There is a pooka in PC1 who is mentioned as being suspected of being an > >Immortal. Any thoughts? > > Can't find this pooka immortal. Page? Can't think of the page # offhand, but it is in the section on the Fairy Court of the Dreamlands. It mentions a pooka-rabbit with a stopwatch that it uses to timestop the court sessions, and it mentions that there is speculation that said pooka may be an immortal, but he's not talking. I think his name begins with a P- Phoonawawa... something (okay, it's not phoonawawa, but it does start with a 'P' I think...) ------------------------------ From: sleipnir@northernnet.com (JL) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:36:57 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals >On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, JL wrote: > >[Long discourse on Time Immortals' goals and the example of Kavian >clipped for brevity's sake] > >I like this a lot- It really sounds like a good idea for plotting an >Immortal of Time's path to Immortality. Thanks! :) >Question though- was Kavian supposed to be the first Emperor? You mention >that he is still missing, but never come back to that point... I'm >hanging in suspense over here! ;) Actually, the first Emperor was not Kavian, though he helped to set up the Great Empire (he was the Royal Spy/Assassin/Diplomat). Kavian started the time-travelling quest a few years after the Empire had already been established. He reappeared 20 years after his disappearance and supposed death, at a time when the Emperor (his old friend) had vanished while on a quest, and the Emperor's son (the heir) was missing. When he completed his time-travelling, he returned to the exact moment in time he had left but was now Immortal. Thus his body dissolved and his conciousness was moved to the another state of reality as he was to meet the other Immortals. Just as in the time-line Kavian had visited 20 years in the future, he had vanished (thus keeping the time-line and future events intact, and since he is Immortal now, he could not contintue tramping about in a mortal body anyways and interfering with mortals). The Emperor who vanished 20 years later while questing was not not Kavian, but one of his close friends (a sort of adopted brother). Just to let you know, the Emperor was questing for Immortality at the time, thus *his* vanishing was due to his rise into the Immortal ranks (after a number of years of travelling and questing). Is that clearer? >As for Chronomancers, any of them worth his salt would also realize this, >and hence would be foolish to embark on any major time changing without >thoroughly researching the possible consequences- one wrong move, and he >could wipe out his own life!! Hence, they, too would look down on any >tampering with the timelines. Of course, one could make it so that Chronomancers (or even all time travellers) are immune to the effects of disturbing their own futures, carrying a sort of personal time-space bubble around themselves (meaning that everything that has already happened to them will remain unchanged in their minds, even if they change the future and something different occurs...since they have lived through what has happened, they have that past, if they travel into the past and alter what will become their past, nothing occurs to them since that is the future and not the unchanged past...anybody else follow that?). While they may remember things as they happened to them, they might return to a present completely different from that which they remember (remember Michael J. Fox in 'Back to the Future' : "Mom?"), perhaps one in which they were never even born!! >if history has it that a certain Emperor Bob rose from the ranks of the >destitute, became a famous warrior, married Empress Joe's daughter, and Empress JOE?!?? - -Oarim ------------------------------ From: Geoff Gander Date: Wed, 13 Nov 96 11:57:25 EST Subject: [Mystara] Map is ready Hey Dan, Just to let you know, the map you were interested in, of the Slagovich/Gulf of Hule region, is ready. I think you'll like how it turned out. Let me know ASAP if you are still interested, and I'll mail you a copy. For payment, send $4.00 (to cover copying and shipping), or more if you really like it. Four bucks isn't that big a loss, I'm sure, since you get an assembled map that you didn't have to put together yourself. Also, if you are still interested in other maps from Dragon, let me know, as I am assembling those, too. Geoff - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Geoff Gander Political Science IV Carleton University General wanderer by principle, adventurer by profession Email address: ggander@chat.carleton.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 00:25:38 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Shawn wrote: > >> Forsetta 7 614 AC .html > >> > >I think I figured that his Path of the Polymath probably took a couple > >hundred years, so maybe c.900 AC as his 'birthdate'? Also, given his > >small following, it seems reasonable to assume that it may be (in large > >part) due to his philosophy being a relatively recent development, so > >this would seem to work well with being around 900 AC or so. > > Yeah that was something else I was looking into - how long does each path to > Immortality take. I haven't quantified anything yet, but you're right the > path of the Polymath does seem to take people about 200 - 300 years to > complete. Also, another note I'd make on the date- I sort of assumed, given the history I created of Forsetta being Ottar the Just, that the current state of affairs in Vestland- ie, Vestland becoming more modern/feudal- was in part due to his influence as a Lawgiver. This thought in mind, it would make sense for him to become Immortal around the time of Vestland's modernization- which, IIRC, has taken place only very recently. Also, a different but related note- I recall a thread some months ago on Norse gods as Immortals, and in it was mentioned that Tyr, the Norse god of War, was also regarded as a lawgiver (If I'm remembering correctly) At any rate, there was some sort of connection to Tyr that I made with Forsetta, and it occurred to me that perhaps Forsetta could fill the Tyr role on Mystara- perhaps complete with one hand missing! Maybe it was lost during his quest for Immortality, and he decided to keep the handicap as a part of his symbol- sort of a sacrifice thing. > >> Karaash 5 ?? WotI, 24 > >> > >Hmm... there goes my theory. I was thinking of making Karaash one of > >those orc warlords who conquered the Five Shires- the first one, whatever > >his name is. Actually, come to think of it, didn't the halflings come > >north c. 1500 BC or so? Then maybe that could still work... > > Yeah, why not. As is obvious from my bit on Forsetta, I like to try and fit the past lives of the Immortals into "Mystara continuity" as much as possible. I just sort of like the idea of famous NPCs mentioned in history being the current crop of Immortals, especially since that is sort of the theory behind the Immortals anyway- that they were once powerful, famous heroes/heroines who attained levels of power undreamed of. That's the reason I suggested this orc (still can't think of his name...), especially as he is mentioned as being the only really competent one to take over the Shires, and just as being a pretty capable orc at any rate. :) > >> Masauwu 28 ?? WotI, 27 > >> > I assume that he was from the actual Minrothad Guilds which became known as > such after 691 AC. This makes him another one of them fast-moving immortals > but I always liked Masauwu so ... I can see your reasoning here, especially as it mentions that he came from the Minrothad Guilds, and not simply, the Minrothad Isles, or somesuch. > >> > > > Rad 22 845 AC WotIf, 8 > > Well, there's always the old favorite, Alphaks.. he seems to have his > >finger rather subtly in a whole lot of Glantrian stuff (especially if > >you've read the Dragonlord trilogy ;) ).. > > Yeah, but Alphaks is not really smart enough. Actually looking at his stats > in WotI and comparing it with other immortals of about his level Alphaks is > lacking a lot. I mean, I would rate his stats as quite respectable for a > mortal, but for an immortal ... He doesn't seem to particularly have it in for the d'Ambrevilles, either. He's more interested in the Boldavians and Alphatians. I'd say it was probably an Entropic, though, one with designs on the Radiance, perhaps? Or someone with designs on the Radiance, Entropic or not? Of course, there's always the possibility of it being one of those dark powers the Amber family consorted with back in Old Averoigne- perhaps Immortals from that dimension, with little to no ties with the Mystaran Prime Plane Immortals? ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #285 ***************************** mystara-digest Saturday, 16 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 286 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 00:34:39 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Shawn wrote: > >> Saasskas *C ?? WotI, 41 > >> > 500 AC/PC3, 59 > Saasskas earned immortality and then she spent several centuries on other > planes. She returned to find that Tritons had migrated to the Sunlit Sea. > This migration occurred in 200 BC, therefore 500 AC is an arbitrary date > depending upon how many centuries Saasskas spent on other planes and how > long the trions had been in the Sunlit Sea when she refound them. Do you mean 500 BC? If she had earned immortality before the migration, it should be a BC date. > >> > Ssu-Ma *E ?? WotI, 41 > >> > 4000 BC/WotI, 41 > Ssu-Ma is the father of Written Knowledge though WotI gives no indication > if he actually created writing although he may have created spell books and > magical scrolls. Therefore he would seem to be a very old immortal, 4000 > BC is an arbitrary date. I'd agree that he's probably one of the old immortals. Around the dawn of civilization (is that 4000 BC?) The name sounds like it would be Ochalean, but they weren't there at that time. Perhaps he was an Oltec? Or maybe even an old world Alphatian who migrated to Mystara before the rest of that lot? (which would mean that he didn't actually invent spellbooks, but just sort of introduced them to Mystara- he's a knockoff artist) At any rate, for those of you out there working on the MChina setting, if you haven't already thought of Ssu-Ma, he would probably be a very viable Immortal for that culture to have in its pantheon. > >> > Great One, The 26 ?? WotI, 21 > > ??/WotI, 21 > The Great One was hatched in a time when dragon races were not quite so > distinct from one another although it seems he did not attain immortality > until some time afterwards. There have been other Great Ones before the > current with new ones apparently being chosen apparently either by Terra > who chose the current Great One or by right of conquest by killing the > current Great One. There is no indication how long the current Great One > has been in his position. Also, recall that bit on dragons under the Draeden entry in the gold box immortals set, where it postulates that the dragons are related to the Draeden, and may be one of the oldest races in the universe (I'm paraphrasing from memory, so I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong ;P ) So maybe the original Great Ones were among those most ancient dragons of the cosmos, during the Immortal/Draeden wars, and that the current Great One just happened to win the position whenever he did. ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 01:19:59 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Immortals and Immortality: more thoughts Here's one I came up with the other day while rereading some old Dragon articles- Given the description of St. Malinois in the Renardois article, as the patron saint of werehunters, I think it might be likely that this is another name for Ruaidhri Hawkbane, the Silver Hunter, from PC4. They share similar interests (ie, exactly the same, though SM is more concerned with werewolves, wereas RH is more concerned with the now-extinct werehawks). I'm not sure how the timeline works out on this one- Daniel, do you know offhand when the Renardois were said to have settled that territory? If it is prior to 593 AC, it might not be entirely chronologically correct, though there can be explanations (ie, RH adopted the already existing identity of SM, much to the surprise of SM shamans, who suddenly began receiving spells; or perhaps SM wasn't always a fixture in Lupin history until RH came and gave them a figure to symbolize their eternal enmity for the werewolves). Also, the other St's of Renardois legend are not necessarily immortals, according to the article. This may have been changed with the advent of the Red Steel boxed set and accessories, though. ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 01:13:48 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, JL wrote: > The Emperor who vanished 20 years later while questing was not not Kavian, > but one of his close friends (a sort of adopted brother). > Just to let you know, the Emperor was questing for Immortality at the time, > thus *his* vanishing was due to his rise into the Immortal ranks (after a > number of years of travelling and questing). Ahh... I see. It is all so clear to me now! Consider my curiosity satisfied... for now! Mwahahahahah.... (no, I don't know where that came from, either. Lack of sleep would be my best guess...) > >if history has it that a certain Emperor Bob rose from the ranks of the > >destitute, became a famous warrior, married Empress Joe's daughter, and > > Empress JOE?!?? Oh... err, yeah... see, He/She's a Shapeshifter, undergoing a crisis of gender identity, and err... well, he/she decided that he/she wanted to have children, and, well... it's just a horrid mess. But you can catch all the details on Crystalvox TV's special edition of the Jerry Trapspringer show this week (featuring Jerry Trapspringer, a halfling with an incredible talent for being able to get socially dysfunctional sorcerors and other adventurers to air their problems on globally networked crystal balls- he's bigger than Joshuan Gallidox, his distant cousin on his mother's side) ------------------------------ From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:54:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bruce McGregor and The Sphere of Time Sir Bruce McGregor is Brannarts daughter-in-law's brother (i think) he is a high level cleric from Klantyre who was trying to turn Angus away from evil until he was imprisoned by Brannart (in AD&D) can someone explain this statement from the Glantri Gaz: "Sir Bruce has escaped trouble so far because the Sphere of Time arranged to divert Prince Etienne's attentions; Bruce's own common sense has done the rest." ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:35:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals and Immortality: more thoughts > I'm not sure how the timeline works out on this one- Daniel, do you know > offhand when the Renardois were said to have settled that territory? If it > is prior to 593 AC, it might not be entirely chronologically correct, though > there can be explanations (ie, RH adopted the already existing identity of SM, > much to the surprise of SM shamans, who suddenly began receiving spells; or > perhaps SM wasn't always a fixture in Lupin history until RH came and gave > them a figure to symbolize their eternal enmity for the werewolves). 500 AC: Humans move into the areas that will eventually become Eusedria and Robrenn; some elves and dwarves ally with these humans. Lupins and rakasta form permanent settlements along the central Savage Coast, in lands that will eventually become Renardy and Bellayne. (RS) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca always ready to drop a date or two :) ------------------------------ From: "Jorge Villalobos" Date: 15 Nov 1996 17:26:55 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chamaleon mans >Hi everybody > >I had LOTS of things to do this month, but I've got a quite nice idea: >I was looking in the B1-9 OD&D module, and I found that creature, the = >chamaleon man. Hey, it's nice! >So here's what I thought: >tha chamaleon men's race is really ancient and is realated to elves and, = >as some scholars say, metamorphosis. They have the ability to change = >their skin's color in a very fast and accurate way without using any = >magic. They can also teleport in a 36 meters range without errors (this = >is a magical ability). >Their culture is primitive (stone age), but they are powerful druids. Take a look at the Mystara MC, for AD&D, there´s a good description of Chamaleon Man and kin races. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- | ==(W{==========- | | || (.--.) | | | \_,|**|,__ Jorge Villalobos Duran | | `\ ' `--' ), Universidad de los Andes | | `\_. .__/\ \ factol@hotmail.com | | | . |""""| jo-villa@uniandes.edu.co | | /==0==-\<>/ jvillalobos@envirolink.org | | | / \ | Tel (571) 2585382 | | ( ) ( ) | | | ; | ; | | | ; | ; | - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___ _____ .'/,-Y" "~-. l.Y ^. /\ _\_ i ___/" "\ DOUGH!!!! | /" "\ o ! l ] o !__./ \ _ _ \.___./ "~\ X \/ \ ___./ ( \ ___. _..--~~" ~`-. ` Z,-- / \ \__. ( / ______) \ l /-----~~" / Y \ / | "x______.^ | \ To the tune of ``Jingle Bells'': Azathoth Azathoth Azathoth, the King Center of the Universe, Insanity he brings, Hey! - --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (Shawn) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:29:16 +1100 Subject: [Mystara] Who immortals were (Re: When immortals achieved immortality) >As is obvious from my bit on Forsetta, I like to try and fit the past >lives of the Immortals into "Mystara continuity" as much as possible. I >just sort of like the idea of famous NPCs mentioned in history being the >current crop of Immortals, especially since that is sort of the theory >behind the Immortals anyway- that they were once powerful, famous >heroes/heroines who attained levels of power undreamed of. Good idea, especially when you elucidate it like that. I was always skeptical about taking immortals names from Earth religions and then giving them personalities based upon that. (Or worse still taking gods from AD&D products and making them D&D immortals ala Karaash and Garal etc.) But if we can give these immortals a mortal existence in Mystara then this will, like you say, give them a story as they should have being Mystaran immortals. >That's the >reason I suggested this orc (still can't think of his name...), >especially as he is mentioned as being the only really competent one to >take over the Shires, and just as being a pretty capable orc at any rate. :) And this is a good story for Karaash. Shawn Stanley I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran s9406058@student.anu.edu.au http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html ------------------------------ From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (Shawn) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:37:00 +1100 Subject: [Mystara] The Great One (Re: When immortals achieved immortality) >> >> Saasskas *C ?? WotI, 41 >Do you mean 500 BC? If she had earned immortality before the migration, >it should be a BC date. Yep, my mistake. >> >> > Great One, The 26 ?? WotI, 21 >> >> ??/WotI, 21 >> The Great One was hatched in a time when dragon races were not quite so >> distinct from one another although it seems he did not attain immortality >> until some time afterwards. There have been other Great Ones before the >> current with new ones apparently being chosen apparently either by Terra >> who chose the current Great One or by right of conquest by killing the >> current Great One. There is no indication how long the current Great One >> has been in his position. > >Also, recall that bit on dragons under the Draeden entry in the gold box >immortals set, where it postulates that the dragons are related to the >Draeden, and may be one of the oldest races in the universe (I'm >paraphrasing from memory, so I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong ;P ) > >So maybe the original Great Ones were among those most ancient dragons of >the cosmos, during the Immortal/Draeden wars, and that the current Great >One just happened to win the position whenever he did. Yeah that's the idea I was thinking of. There are all these really old dragons somewhere who "were hatched at a time when the different dragon races were less distinct". Because of this quality Terra chooses one of these ones every now and again for some reason or other. (This would probably be a pretty rare occurrence ie the current Great One attains a tendancy for one Alignment over another, say). Either that or one of these dragons or another unrelated dragon challenges and beats the current Great One. Due to some pact (probably) this dragon changes to become unaligned, as it were and then takes the mantle of the Great One. When I put it like this it almost seems like some long ago pact made between the Old Ones (when they weren't the Old Ones) and these less distinct dragons (because these dragons are presumably fairly powerful OR they decided to stay whilst the Old Ones pissed off or something). I guess if this is a possibility it may imply that Terra has some knowledge of the Old Ones that she isn't letting on. Anyone have any ideas about this? Shawn Stanley I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran s9406058@student.anu.edu.au http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html ------------------------------ From: Rob Rickard Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 19:14:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. >Perhaps this was a plot from the Darokinian merchants to encourage >dragons to leave Darokin instead. "No gold?" says the dragon, "Bah, this >place is worthless. Let's move our lairs out to Rockhome. Yeah, these little >guys always have gold and gem. None of that paper stuff. They're a bit >harder to chew, but they're tastier... less filling too." :) - -------- I thought that dragons didnt like to eat human, demihuman and humanoid? ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:55:12 +0100 Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] Hardball teams At 12.08 14/11/96 +-100, you wrote: > >Exsqueeze Me... >Can somebody pleeeaase tell me what >Hardball is and the rules for it? Hardball is game played in Alphatia and especially common among the lower classes. I don't have Dawn of the Emperors here, so I cannot tell you the rules, but basically it involves two teams (12 players each IIRC), a leather ball and two nets. Magic is forbidden. If you don't own DotE, but like to know the exact rules, just ask. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:27:48, -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Bruce McGregor "Sir Bruce has escaped trouble so far because the Sphere of Time arranged to divert Prince Etienne's attentions; Bruce's own common sense has done the rest." >>>>>>>> Does this mean he may be a potential canadite as an Immortal in the sphere of time? Or maybe, he has some Immortal accquantence? I can't find my gaz, and haven't read over Bruce in a while. Who is the Immortal he worships? - -tim ------------------------------ From: Estlor Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 23:32:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bruce McGregor and The Sphere of Time > > can someone explain this statement from the Glantri Gaz: > > "Sir Bruce has escaped trouble so far because the Sphere of Time arranged to > divert Prince Etienne's attentions; Bruce's own common sense has done the > rest." I think they are referring to when Etienne was still Rad and Time could do things to him (time and energy are opposites, but I don't have my WotI copy handy so I'm guessing). Estlor ------------------------------ From: Matthew_Kammann@westtown.edu (Matthew Kammann) Date: 10 Nov 1996 19:54:18 GMT Subject: Re: Re: [Mystara] What is Evil? mystara-l@IO.COM,Internet writes: evil is a state of mind. > there is no difference between good or evil. > just fun. and boring. So if I slaughter 6 million people I don't qualify as evil, just interesting? The difference between good and evil is the end that they want to achieve. If you kill millions to expand your power and control, you are probably evil. If you kill millions attempting to free others from tyranny you are good. - -- I've done the math and Galileo was wrong. The world doesn't revolve around the sun, it revolves around me. No..... you kill one person you are a murder. Kill ten thousand and you are a conquerer. Kill everyone, and then, you are evil. ------------------------------ From: - Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 04:57:25 +-100 Subject: SV: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD37B.2D5F9EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On the 16.11.96 you wrote: >Perhaps this was a plot from the Darokinian merchants to encourage >dragons to leave Darokin instead. "No gold?" says the dragon, "Bah, this >place is worthless. Let's move our lairs out to Rockhome. Yeah, these little >guys always have gold and gem. None of that paper stuff. They're a bit >harder to chew, but they're tastier... less filling too." :) - -------- I thought that dragons didnt like to eat human, demihuman and humanoid? Read a couple of FORGOTTEN REALMS books, and they'll change your mind on that! - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD37B.2D5F9EA0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgcEAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAFNNVFAAbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABEAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYA AAAeAAEwAQAAABMAAAAnbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAFgAAAFNNVFA6TVlTVEFS QS1MQElPLkNPTQAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAD0CwBCIAHABgAAABJ UE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAHgAAAFNWOiBbTXlzdGFyYV0gRHJhZ29ucywg ZXQgYWwuAMoJAQWAAwAOAAAAzAcLABAABAA5ABkABgBKAQEggAMADgAAAMwHCwAQAAQANwA4AAYA ZwEBCYABACEAAABENTRFRjZDQTY5M0ZEMDExOUIzMzQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMADzBgEDkAYA2AMAABAA AAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQAgh8hGctO7AR4AcAABAAAAHgAA AFNWOiBbTXlzdGFyYV0gRHJhZ29ucywgZXQgYWwuAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbvTckbIyvZO1j9p EdCbM0RFU1QAAAAAAwAGEBJx/wADAAcQrAEAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAE9OVEhFMTYxMTk2WU9VV1JP VEU6UEVSSEFQU1RISVNXQVNBUExPVEZST01USEVEQVJPS0lOSUFOTUVSQ0hBTlRTVE9FTkNPVVJB R0VEUkFHT05TVE9MRUFWRURBUk9LSU5JTlMAAAAAAgEJEAEAAACKAgAAhgIAAPsDAABMWkZ1HkTJ 0v8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMzdwLk BxMCgH0KgAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2BAbmcxMDQ0CvRsEGkxODAC0WktMX8ZUA3wDNAacwtV FFEL8mMJAEAgTwOgdGhlIAAxNi4xMS45NmQgeQhgIHcDYBPQOl8KhQqHG0sTUB2xYwVAPvZQBJAR gHAEIByABAAdgLJhBCBhIAtQHbAgA1LlHHNECsBvawuABzADoJ0HgHIRcQIwILFvIAnwcwWgCHBh ZxygCosZ0DN2NhseH8dkJDECICOTbGhlYXYiRyALgBPBYWBkLiAiTiPAJ1BswGQ/IiBzYROwHHPF JyQsKTBCYWgq4CDTdQqFPgtRYxygIPIVsWjXJ9AEECkgTBHAJwQgBGD/KAEIYSfAC3ARoC4RBUAj sVEIAGNraANwZSkgWf8n4CszB5AcoBnQAkAn0Cu2/Gd1KhEHQCEgKhERgCgB2ymCIVBuMrAkUG0p IClQam4uAWYccWEFQAqwcLMEkCngdHUN0CkgVByQ7HknFhAhUWIwoCunEYHfBIEjohFwB9Aq4GIu 0jUV9wGQE8AIkS44kCfBBBEaQM5sGdAZECOhby4p0DnwtDopHfwtOyUd/EkccTkIYGdoN4I0AScm ZGl2ZAIwMIFrOAEjwTQBaN51A4Eq4CpwE+BpPxMyw7U/E28+AD8d/xteUijxDyFRJAELUDOTRk9S RyBPVFRFTgfwRUHuTAXhBuAikHMq4DLSN6P/OUA28RkBHKAdUQXAP7Ay4fsCIDPTISWvH+QkjyWf SPwFFTEATKAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAEAAABAAAcwQC4TEnLTuwFAAAgwQC4TEnLTuwEeAD0AAQAA AAUAAABTVjogAAAAAJYR - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD37B.2D5F9EA0-- ------------------------------ From: TSRBruce@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:35:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons, et al. In a message dated 96-11-15 23:01:30 EST, Rob Rickard wrote: << I thought that dragons didnt like to eat human, demihuman and humanoid? >> How so? Bruce Heard ------------------------------ From: TSRBruce@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:37:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chamaleon mans In a message dated 96-11-15 21:10:24 EST, Jorge Villalobos wrote: << Take a look at the Mystara MC, for AD&D, there´s a good description of Chamaleon Man and kin races. >> Indeed. Also have a look at the way chameleon men were developed in the Princess Ark episode dealing with the Wallara -- a culture inspired from Australian aborigine. Bruce Heard ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 08:08:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] [ADMIN] Those Binary Files... On Sat, 9 Nov 1996, Shelby Michlin wrote: > I've never had a problem with large files in my email. I especially like > Character Sheets. > Just wanted to express another opinion, > Shelby Michlin It was not so much the file size, but the repitition. I recieved the file at least three times. Also, binary attachments are notorious for causing problems with the list, especially the digest. In all, it is not worth the head ache they can cause. It is best for people to announce on the list that they have such things available, then send them by private e-mail. Or put them on a page. Leroy Van Camp III owner-mystara-l@io.com van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MST3K ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #286 ***************************** mystara-digest Sunday, 17 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 287 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: - Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 04:37:03 +-100 Subject: SV: SV: [Mystara] Hardball teams - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD37B.27A3B960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 12.08 14/11/96 , I wrote: > >>Exsqueeze Me... >>Can somebody pleeeaase tell me what >>Hardball is and the rules for it? at 16/11/96 Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >Hardball is game played in Alphatia and >especially common among the lower >classes. I don't have Dawn of the >Emperors here, so I cannot tell you the >rules, but basically it involves two teams >(12 players each IIRC), a leather >ball and two nets. Magic is forbidden. >If you don't own DotE, but like to know >the exact rules, just ask. Thank you... and, since you say so.... Can you tell me the exact rules? Thanks. Tarjeh - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD37B.27A3B960 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjoEAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAFNNVFAAbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABEAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYA AAAeAAEwAQAAABMAAAAnbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAFgAAAFNNVFA6TVlTVEFS QS1MQElPLkNPTQAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAD0CwBCIAHABgAAABJ UE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAIQAAAFNWOiBTVjogW015c3RhcmFdIEhhcmRi YWxsIHRlYW1zABMLAQWAAwAOAAAAzAcLABAABAAlAAMABgAgAQEggAMADgAAAMwHCwAQAAQAIQAT AAYALAEBCYABACEAAABDRDRFRjZDQTY5M0ZEMDExOUIzMzQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMAABBwEDkAYAWAQA ABAAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQAAHodub9O7AR4AcAABAAAA IQAAAFNWOiBTVjogW015c3RhcmFdIEhhcmRiYWxsIHRlYW1zAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG7029u h8r2Ts4/aRHQmzNERVNUAAAAAAMABhD7lQ45AwAHEL4BAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABBVDEyMDgxNC8x MS85NixJV1JPVEU6RVhTUVVFRVpFTUVDQU5TT01FQk9EWVBMRUVFQUFTRVRFTExNRVdIQVRIQVJE QkFMTElTQU5EVEhFUlVMRVNGT1JJVD9BVDE2LzExLzk2AAAAAAIBCRABAAAABgMAAAIDAAAwBwAA TFpGdUq/1J3/AAoBDwIVAqgF6wKDAFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3Rl bQKDM3cC5AcTAoB9CoAIzwnZO/EWDzI1NQKACoENsQtgwG5nMTA0NAr7FFE1C/JjAEAgCoUKi2xp iDE4MALRaS0xGVBfDfAM0BzTGdwTUG8T0GMFBUBBBUAxMi4wOAEfEDQvMTEvOTaMICwK4RnvSSB3 HoLLHY8elDobbTM2HX8ehTY+CocgXz4kfyWFRXhEc3EKUGV6ZQXQZV4uKeAl/ycPKB9DA5FzxQNw ZQbgZHkgC1AJ4KhlYWERsCAT0GwDIHcHgCFwEYB0Kh8rLyw/SF0LEWIHQAMgBAAgAHBk5S6gaCmg cnUuIAQgAhDxBcBpdD8KjxofGy8kL9cB0DNQHwE2H6VGAaAFEEB6aW8gUGEG8Gn3IXQjTDWPIDcP JF8w3x5J2TKqZ2EvAQtReQmAMyDxA6BBbHAvQQcwM1M+X7c/bx5nB5BwBZAHMWwt8L0FoG0EYAOg QdACIGczk70VoHcEkC9/RC8d/mMLYKsEEAeQLiFRZAIgJwVARRGAdimgRGF3A6BvnmYzk0i/Sc8e Z0VtRlDvA2ARoExgBJBlIBAtgCFR2mMAcG4ekC6keQhgM5KfSE9OLx3+M+MgEGJ1BUC/MuAAkFFw RqI0gEJxdgbw80yQBCB0dzpQE9BB0AQh91MvVD8edigfIEIEUJEuUMMRcCFQSVJDKSAQQyD/LiAv UFDBUq9ZHx3+MuMzY41X4W4RwEvBTWFnVqCjMyI0QWJpZA2wbioP+14/X09JTSBSMkwUSAADoNpE HpBFVhQcMGsukTpQfmtRoAfgYy9kPx5nM6JlZngA0FWnanUTwDNQcy5rYqZivzYXVBGAbmvfUiIp 4TNSUQELgGMpoFIy/nNCMC1xKeFipi1CUjMuxf1rDT9pnx6UG1cBkXVlbZ8XbqRLwDasVArAamVo /3OPHpR1c3VpNqw2rz3fHhwLOzUVMQB/8AAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzCg9ATpbtO7AUAA CDCg9ATpbtO7AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFNWOiAAAAAAE0Q= - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD37B.27A3B960-- ------------------------------ From: - Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 04:55:27 +-100 Subject: SV: [Mystara] Chamaleon mans - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD37B.2AC03BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable According to the RED STEEL boxed set: The wallaras are a technologically primitive, yet spiritually rich = people who inhabit th grasslands on the orc's head peninsula's northern = shore. Once a proud and wise race, the wallaras were reduced to their = current primitive state, though the action of the aranea. Wallaras look like tall, slender humans, but their skin are covered in = stripes of many different colors. They have innate magical powers, such = as the ability to activate a dimension door and the ability to emulate = a ring of chameleon power. Sometimes called CHAMELEON MEN, wallaras are distantly related to = DRAGONS. The wallara are a peaceful people who seek, and often find, = spiritual enrichment. They are nomads now, but once ruled a vast = civilization that included the now-ruined city of Risilvar, located in = the forbidden highlands. Wallaras seldom leave their homeland, and = consequently know little of the outside world. During the wars of the = last few years, the wallaras were mostly untouched; the Gator Men on the = eastern border of their land never venture into wallaran lands, the = phanatons to the south are peaceful, and other races are too far away to = be a threat. 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Why, sure! these would be the Sind Bengals, right after the Atruaghin Braves. Bruce Heard ------------------------------ From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:16:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bruce McGregor << Does this mean he may be a potential canadite as an Immortal in the sphere of time? Or maybe, he has some Immortal accquantence? I can't find my gaz, and haven't read over Bruce in a while. Who is the Immortal he worships? -tim >> i havent seen the name of his immortal but it is mentioned that Bruce carries a claymore not to be used as a weapon but as a clerical symbol whos symbol is a claymore??? ------------------------------ From: sleipnir@northernnet.com (JL) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:37:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chat Room On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Rob Rickard wrote: > Do any of you go to the Mystara Chat Room? > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/6011/ On a related note, is there a Mystara IRC #? (since I utterly despise 'Net chat rooms as inferior beasts of face-to-face communication) - -Oarim ------------------------------ From: Patrick Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:31:41 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams >>I'm trying to create names for pre-WotI Alphatian teams, the first one is >Shraek Beholders. Suggestions are appreciated. Alright, here are a few suggestions off the top of my head: Dunadale: Deirdren Patriots (the town of Deirdren is a big harball place, and they elect their town leaders democratically) Aegos: Aegopoli Orioles (Just 'cause. They haven't fielded a team since 2003 AY (?) when almost all the island's strong young men joined the army) Gaity: Rainbow Park Adventurers Ambur: Ambur Stars Frisland: Shiell Yetis (a local legend), or perhaps Trail Blazers Foresthome: Foresthome Rangers Limn: Trollhattan Citizens Stonewall: Draco Warriors, or maybe Cavaliers Stoutfellow: Stoutfellow Nuggets Shiye-Lawr: Alfeish Grizzlies Haven: Dovir Masterpiece Vertiloch: Sundsvall Magic or Capitals Bettellyn: Citadel Defenders Theranderol: Errolyn Blue Jays Randel: Rardish Suns (usually a great team, but they've never actually won the championship) Eadrin: Archport Cardinals Arogansa: Arogansa Wizards (the team is made up entirely of Magic-Users who play simply to try to injure the other team as much as possible) Greenspur: Greenspur Marlins Yannivey Chain: Yannivey Islanders (the few inhabitants simply enjoying playing in a national championship, they never go to the finals) Verdan: Faraway Pacers Nithia: Nithia Heat (when Alphatia had a colony in Ylaruam) These are just my opinion:) ------------------------------ From: Patrick Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:31:33 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chamaleon mans >I had LOTS of things to do this month, but I've got a quite nice idea: >I was looking in the B1-9 OD&D module, and I found that creature, the chamaleon man. Hey, it's nice! >So here's what I thought: (Long, but interesting, description snipped for brevity) >That's all. Did you like it? Criticism is well accepted I like it! I think that there should definitely be more of a Chameleon-man presence in the Known World. >Ah, one more question: is there any immortal interested in koprus? The kopru worship Manwara (The Old Man/Kopru of the Sea), and their own patron, Slizzark the Lurker. Both these immortals are mentioned in both Book 1 of WotI and PC3. >If these Chamelon Men are similar to the Wallara of the Orc's Head Peninsula, they are >the children of the Immortal dragon Great One, and they are under His protection. They >are not related to elves, >but to Lizard Men, Gator Men etc. >Their culture stopped evolvin some hundred years ago because the Aranea of Herath were >fucking up their genes and turned them into Shazaka and Gurrashes. The chameleon men may call themselves the "children of the Great One," but this could just be a symbolic relationship-- people call themselves the children of their god all the time. According to the Dragonlord series, dragons and elves were one race in the distant past, so the chameleon men could very easily be something in between. The Shazak, Gatormen, and Cay-men are the results of some sort of Ananea experimentation with Wallara genes, but the Chameleon men could still very easily be the very distant relatives of the elves, an idea that I personally like. BTW, all this information on the Wallara comes from the Red Steel/Savage Coast stuff. Patrick Sullivan ------------------------------ From: Patrick Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:31:37 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams I like these names, for the most part. >>What, no Bengals? > >We can easily introduce the Bengals in two ways: From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 09:08:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id AAA09885; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 00:43:45 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA20820 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 07:23:40 -0600 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 07:23:40 -0600 Message-Id: <199611171323.HAA20820@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #287 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: e89bc49cb08fb87ce82edf23a02ec364 >1) Pick a city on mainland Alphatia before WotI and call it Bengal, now >they're in the HW, but they can still play Hardball How's this: If NACE ever establishes real contact with any of the nations in MOrient, they could have a team called the Bengals. >2) In his NACE timeline Herve designed the hardball season the following way: >each nation has a national championship and the winner goes to the NACE >final (called Superhardball) on Ionace. Maybe this time the Bengals didn't >made it to the final, maybe they'll be luckier in 1015 AC... who knows... IMHO, teams from each nation should compete for the right to compete under the national team name at the NACE final, i.e. the team from Qeodhar would always be the Whalers, but they might change it to Qeodhar Whalers if the team comes from outside the city of Farend. This would allow consistency in team names. >>East Portage: East Portage Packers Just a little nit-picking: The name of this nation is actually Hillvale, the town is East Portage :) >>> >Dawnrim: Alinquin Cowboys >> >>Does this name sound a bit too "modern?" > >Maybe... Herve proposes the Coppertown Red Skins, probably referring to the >copper skin of Alphatians. Dawnrim is a poor country, one of the major >industries there are cattle, sheeps and goats, maybe they're the Alinquin >Shepherds but it doesn't sound impressive. I like Cowboys, but perhaps Rams or Bulls might be more agreeable? >Edairo Sphinxes is better ? I think so >>> >Trikelios: Trikelios Buccaneers >> >>This name might also be inappropriate, as pirates are a real >>threat to the people at that time. One of the possible names >>considered for the new Baltimore Ravens was the Bombers, meant >>to be the air force bombers, but was rejected due to the >>possible image connection to the terrorist bombing. Another >>example are the Washington Bullets which might became the >>Wizards. > >But the name of such a team should sound as a threat to rouse fear in the >opponents. >Anyway we can change it.... but I've no ideas and the PWA are of little help... >just a few names: Mighty Ducks, Orioles, Bengals (just to make Estlor happy >:), Marlins, Crew (is this the name of one of those new US soccer teams ?)... The Ne'er-Do-Well team, either current or past, should probably be either the Buccaneers or the Raiders. How 'bout the Trikelios Clippers? >>> >Aeria: Featherfall Supersonics >> >>Do they even know what the speed of sound is? >> >Mmmhh probably not, but who knows... >Anyway Herve proposes Featherfall Plumes, but I don't like Feather and >Plumes together. Suggestions ? Thinking of Supersonics makes me think of Seattle, and their football team is the Seahawks. I think that would work; so might Skyhawks or Falcons. ------------------------------ From: Patrick Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:49:47 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams >>What, no Bengals? > >Why, sure! these would be the Sind Bengals, right after the Atruaghin >Braves. > >Bruce Heard Maybe countries should have mascots for their teams at the annual World Games? ------------------------------ From: Patrick Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:49:50 +0000 Subject: Re: SV: SV: [Mystara] Hardball teams >>Hardball is game played in Alphatia and >especially common among the lower >>classes. I don't have Dawn of the >Emperors here, so I cannot tell you the >>rules, but basically it involves two teams >(12 players each IIRC), a leather >>ball and two nets. Magic is forbidden. >>If you don't own DotE, but like to know >the exact rules, just ask. > >Thank you... and, since you say so.... >Can you tell me the exact rules? It has a hard leather ball a few inches in diameter. The field is 300 ft. by 150 ft., with 30 ft. square grids marked off. A 10'high by 10' wide net is located at each end in the center. Each team tries to get the ball in the other team's net. They may run the ball within the 30' squares, but they must through it across the boundaries between squares. Tackling, wrestling, blocking, using the ball as a weapon, etc. are all legal, but magic is forbidden. DotE doesn't give the rules for how long the game lasts, but I would guess 4 15-minute quarters, switching sides between quarters, and with a 15-20 minute half-time. ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:54:22 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Great One (Re: When immortals achieved immortality) On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, Shawn wrote: > >> >> Saasskas *C ?? WotI, 41 > >Do you mean 500 BC? If she had earned immortality before the migration, > >it should be a BC date. > > Yep, my mistake. That could be plausible. I think my idea of c. 0 AC was due to that 'centuries of wandering the planes' bit, though my inclination was to err on the side of conservativism (ie, 2 centuries before returning to find the Tritons had migrated). Also, on that Pooka/Immortal, I looked it up last night- his name is Chuarbidhe (I don't know where I got that Phunwawa... whatever ;), and it is suspected that he has attained some sort of elevated status, such as the Immortals possess, but he isn't saying. ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:51:02 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Who immortals were (Re: When immortals achieved immortality) On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, Shawn wrote: > Good idea, especially when you elucidate it like that. I was always skeptical > about taking immortals names from Earth religions and then giving them > personalities based upon that. (Or worse still taking gods from AD&D > products and making them D&D immortals ala Karaash and Garal etc.) But if we > can give these immortals a mortal existence in Mystara then this will, like > you say, give them a story as they should have being Mystaran immortals. I'm there with you- Even though I've always been a great fan of Greek Mythology (it's my favorite mythological tradition), I tend to ignore the 'Greek/Roman' Immortals that are mentioned in WotI and IM2. I just didn't feel that they were done the justice they deserve. I have considered trying to place them in what should be their proper home, in the pantheon of Milenian Immortals, but haven't as yet bothered to do so. It especially tees me off that Zeus is only a Temporal (I think), whereas his real world counterpart among the Norse, Odin, is a full fledged Hierarch. Not in my Mystara, buddy! ;) Maybe I'll just make Odin/Zeus one Immortal, and say that's how he's known among the Milenians... or I suppose I could go and make Halav=Zeus... I don't know. At any rate, I was always of the mind that Zeus would kick Odin's butt if the Norse and Greek/Roman gods ever had it out... YMMV. ;) ------------------------------ From: Tarjeh Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 17:59:45 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] What is Evil? Matthew Kammann wrote: > > mystara-l@IO.COM,Internet writes: > evil is a state of mind. > > there is no difference between good or evil. > > just fun. and boring. > > So if I slaughter 6 million people I don't qualify as evil, just interesting? > > The difference between good and evil is the end that they want to achieve. > If you kill millions to expand your power and control, you are probably evil. > > If you kill millions attempting to free others from tyranny you are good. > > -- > I've done the math and Galileo was wrong. The world doesn't revolve around > the sun, it revolves around me. > > No..... you kill one person you are a murder. > Kill ten thousand and you are a conquerer. > Kill everyone, and then, you are evil. No....Kill everyone... you are A GOD! All killing is evil....no good comes from murder! A good person does everything he can to avoid violence..... A LG person will only fight when the enemy is strongly evil... and even then he'll fight with honor.. Tarjeh ------------------------------ From: Berg Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 01:04:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What is Evil? Fighting to kill and fighting with honor are *not* mutually exclusive! Remember, the D&D world is generally medeival morality, not modern world morality. In modern morality, all killing is evil. In medeival morality, killing was often a more merciful punishment than imprisonment. ------------------------------ From: - Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 02:47:11 +-100 Subject: SV: [Mystara] What is Evil? - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD431.D5E289A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 17.11.96 at 13.08, Berg wrote: Fighting to kill and fighting with honor are *not* mutually exclusive! Remember, the D&D world is generally medeival morality, not modern world morality. In modern morality, all killing is evil. In medeival morality, killing was often a more merciful punishment than = imprisonment. As you say, a mercy kill? A mercy kill is to be used against those too = weak to survive. To kill someone which is going to die soon anyway, and = who has great pain, is a mercy kill. To kill someone because ypu can't = afford to imprison them, isn't good at all. To kill your enemy with no mercy is evil. To subdue = your enemy without violence is good.=20 Another thing: Have any of you seen these old western movies where the = young boy shoots his first person..... goes crazy.... pukes..... = cries..... and so on?. Have any of you ever used that in your campaigns. Have you ever = described how awful it is to see that the player just has destroyed a = life? To see for the first time that it is HIS sword who made the = innards come out of the goblin... and, the goblin was smaller than = him!........ Think about this. 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Nice idea. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:34:01 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams At 19.31 16/11/96 +0000, you wrote: > >These are just my opinion:) Thanks, I like some of them, especially Yetis, Capitals and Masterpiece. I think we should avoid giving the teams names like Magic or Wizards, because this is the sport of commoners where magic is not allowed and (most) wizards don't know anything about Hardball. Anyway, this is only mi opinion. The following ones are some of my (best) ideas (i.e. those liked also by Herve): Blackhearth: Shraek Beholders Ambur: Ambur Stars Foresthome: Lakim Rangers Limn: Trollhattan 'Noids Stoutfellow: Stoutfellow Giants :-) Shye Lawr: Alfleish Pranksters Bettellyn: Citadel Quakes As you can see we had the same idea for two of them (Stars and Rangers). In the HW there will be a new team in Sundsvall: the Sundsvall Maelstroms. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: "Ryan J. Law" Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 12:49:54 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mystara] What is Evil? Matthew Kammann wrote: > > mystara-l@IO.COM,Internet writes: > evil is a state of mind. > > there is no difference between good or evil. > > just fun. and boring. > > So if I slaughter 6 million people I don't qualify as evil, just interesting? > > The difference between good and evil is the end that they want to achieve. > If you kill millions to expand your power and control, you are probably evil. > > If you kill millions attempting to free others from tyranny you are good. In your own mind, maybe, in my mind I don't know about that opinon. ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 18:30:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] What is Evil? Tarjeh pontificated: > > No....Kill everyone... you are A GOD! All killing is evil....no good > comes from murder! A good person does everything he can to avoid > violence..... A LG person will only fight when the enemy is strongly > evil... and even then he'll fight with honor.. > So, if you want back in time into the early 40's, and have a chance to shot and kill Hitler from the back. And assume if he dies, the war will stop immediatly, and millions of people will be saved. Will you be consider as evil if you did carry out that act, consider if you don't kill him, then you have condame millions of people to die. How about if the situation is killing few hundred people to save a few thousand? To say the truth, I'm not sure what my personal opinion is, other than real life is rarely black and white. By the way, I do object to some of the earlier modules where PCs are expected to kill humanoid childrens, such as in the Giant series, and many other similar dungeon crawling, hack-n-slash type of adventures. - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (Shawn) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:43:24 +1000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Great One (Re: When immortals achieved immortality) >On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, Shawn wrote: > >> >> >> Saasskas *C ?? WotI, 41 >> >Do you mean 500 BC? If she had earned immortality before the migration, >> >it should be a BC date. >> >> Yep, my mistake. > >That could be plausible. I think my idea of c. 0 AC was due to that >'centuries of wandering the planes' bit, though my inclination was to err >on the side of conservativism (ie, 2 centuries before returning to find >the Tritons had migrated). Yeah I erred away from conservatism - she's an immortal now she has all the time in the world, no need to only spend 200 years wandering the planes. What, no comment about what I wrote about the Great One, I thought it was rather profound? Shawn Stanley I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran s9406058@student.anu.edu.au http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html ------------------------------ From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (Shawn) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:45:56 +1000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Who immortals were (Re: When immortals achieved immortality) >On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, Shawn wrote: > >> Good idea, especially when you elucidate it like that. I was always >>skeptical >> about taking immortals names from Earth religions and then giving them >> personalities based upon that. (Or worse still taking gods from AD&D >> products and making them D&D immortals ala Karaash and Garal etc.) But if we >> can give these immortals a mortal existence in Mystara then this will, like >> you say, give them a story as they should have being Mystaran immortals. > >I'm there with you- Even though I've always been a great fan of Greek >Mythology (it's my favorite mythological tradition), I tend to ignore the >'Greek/Roman' Immortals that are mentioned in WotI and IM2. I just didn't >feel that they were done the justice they deserve. Yeah, but in WotI in the other immortals section they gave all these immortals another name and also a little bit of Mystaran relevance (although by and large not much of course). Although they seemed to give them the same or similar personalities - although of course Zeus is no longer really that important he was just a Milenian king who is now a patron of kingship or something like that. Shawn Stanley I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran s9406058@student.anu.edu.au http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html ------------------------------ From: Roundhouse Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 00:26:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] What is Evil? Ryan J. Law wrote: > > Matthew Kammann wrote: > > > > mystara-l@IO.COM,Internet writes: > > evil is a state of mind. > > > there is no difference between good or evil. > > > just fun. and boring. > > > > So if I slaughter 6 million people I don't qualify as evil, just interesting? > > > > The difference between good and evil is the end that they want to achieve. > > If you kill millions to expand your power and control, you are probably evil. > > > > If you kill millions attempting to free others from tyranny you are good. > > In your own mind, maybe, in my mind I don't know about that opinon. Millions died in the Allied effort to liberate Europe and the pacific. Would you consider the allies effort to be evil? Lets take this to a smaller scale. Say you found out someone was holding a dozen slaves and whipping and beating them. Would you consider a slave who killed his master in such a situation evil? Problaly not. Nor would Thyatians, they would reward the slave for being able to overcome his master in combat. IF a stranger poisoned his master to free him the stranger would also not be considered evil, just chaotic. - -- I've done the math and Galileo was wrong. The world doesn't revolve around the sun, it revolves around me. Daniel J. Macchia Roundhouse@mms.net ------------------------------ From: - Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 05:53:20 +-100 Subject: [Mystara] What is Evil? Just round it up: I didn't mean that nescesarry killing was evil. To kill someone who is = evil to save yourself isn't evil... that doesn't mean its good. In = murder, the essence of a murder is evil. A good person would be repulsed = by such an act. And vengeance.. When vengeance is sought by a character, = his alignment changes towards Chaothic, and maybe evil.... Why are most = free-willed undead evil? Because of the hatred and lust of vengeance = upon the living!. Even the shiniest Paladin would have killed the guy = who raped and killed his wife and daughters, burned his house, ate his = sons and made his armour dirty.... After that, he's probably no Paladin = anymore, but if he still is, he'll atone for his sins. The sentence is: When you hunt for the Beast, beware that you don't become it Yourself.=20 Just because people are evil against you, it doesn't mean that you have = to be evil against them, I am no religious man, but i point to the = "ultimate symbol of good"; Jesus. He wouldn't harm those who harmed = him..... He wouldn't harm a living creature. When they hanged him, he = even said: Forgive them, Father, they don't know what they are doing. If = anyone got my point there. (I would have shot Hitler in the back if I = had the chance, but sorry, i was 40 years too late..) Kill one to save = two isn't too evil to not do it, but a Paladin should at least atone for = the deed. Tarjeh ------------------------------ From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:42:05, -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] What is Evil? ...no good comes from murder! A good person does everything he can to avoid violence..... >>>>>>>>>>> then are all forms of military and thier personal all evil? If you die for your country isn't that a LG act? In a war, you can't always end it in non-violence, and if the troops are marching in to your country are you going to defeat them non-violently? It is good to fight for the benefit of others. It is evil to fight for personal gain. - -tim ------------------------------ From: Matthew_Kammann@westtown.edu (Matthew Kammann) Date: 18 Nov 1996 18:04:31 GMT Subject: Re: Re: [Mystara] What is Evil? mystara-l@io.com,Internet writes: Millions died in the Allied effort to liberate Europe and the pacific. Would you consider the allies effort to be evil? Lets take this to a smaller scale. Say you found out someone was holding a dozen slaves and whipping and beating them. Would you consider a slave who killed his master in such a situation evil? Problaly not. Nor would Thyatians, they would reward the slave for being able to overcome his master in combat. IF a stranger poisoned his master to free him the stranger would also not be considered evil, just chaotic. No no no. It is very simple. Evil=fun Good=boring. Death=change Now which is more fun something that changes or something that allways stays the same. ------------------------------ From: "Jared Nielsen" Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:41:02 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mystara] What is Evil? I think this is the reason for the epic backdrop of all the novels we read... There is some extreme crisis in nature or the universe that requires some sacrifice and personal loss to gain a greater good.. One of the more common sacrifices is the postponement of certain morals temporarily in favor of future peace and prosperity. Not to start a flame, but I can generally mention several texts, fiction and otherwise, where gods commanded their peoples to murder, go to war, and even massacre entire peoples, etc. in the name of lawfullness to either preserve the "people" of that god, or to restore the "balance" of good and evil.. This epic struggle is what role playing is based on..., not the daily bar-room brawl, but the larger struggle versus good and evil right at the critical moment where catastrophe could happen... What role-playing does not depict accurately is the fact that "epic" struggles like this simply don't happen every two weeks in real life, but hey... that's what fiction entertainment is for... Roleplaying a peaceful day in the park for a dozen gaming sessions wouldn't be that entertaining, now would it? :-) or maybe it could be..... I know of some very creative gamemasters that don't have the players lift a sword the whole session.... and we have a great time doing it! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------- A Jack of All Trades is Master of None ... Except Himself - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------- email: mailto:grafx1@airmail.net business: http://web2.airmail.net/grafx1/ GameVerse: http://www.gameverse.com/ - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------- - ---------- > From: MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA > To: mystara-l@io.com > Subject: Re: [Mystara] What is Evil? > Date: Sunday, November 17, 1996 10:42 AM > > ...no good > comes from murder! A good person does everything he can to avoid > violence..... > >>>>>>>>>>> > then are all forms of military and thier personal all evil? If you > die for your country isn't that a LG act? In a war, you can't always > end it in non-violence, and if the troops are marching in to your > country are you going to defeat them non-violently? > It is good to fight for the benefit of others. It is evil to fight > for personal gain. > -tim ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 10:33:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA25607; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:11:42 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA05135 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:31:00 -0600 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:31:00 -0600 Message-Id: <199611190531.XAA05135@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #288 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 7e62e76f7284917dd57b28a0bde59be5 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:19:40 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Dispel magic What happens when a spellcaster casts Dispel Magic on someone who has been Raised by a cleric of a level lower than the first spellcaster ? a) Nothing b) Raise Dead goes down for 1d10 turns (as in the rules for Skyships). This means that the poor one "dies" for 1d10 turns before becoming alive again. c) Raise Dead is dispelled and the raised one dies forever (at least, until raised again). My opinion is a), because I see Raise Dead simply as a spell that opens a gate to Limbo, so it takes place istantaneously (like a Fireball) and cannot be dispelled. What about Dispel Magic and Reincarnation ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:39:04 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bruce McGregor and The Sphere of Time At 09.54 15/11/96 -0500, you wrote: >Sir Bruce McGregor is Brannarts daughter-in-law's brother (i think) >he is a high level cleric from Klantyre who was trying to turn Angus away >from evil >until he was imprisoned by Brannart (in AD&D) > >can someone explain this statement from the Glantri Gaz: > >"Sir Bruce has escaped trouble so far because the Sphere of Time arranged to >divert Prince Etienne's attentions; Bruce's own common sense has done the >rest." I've noticed that statement myself a few months ago. Maybe Sir Bruce worships a powerful immortal from the sphere of Time (Khoronus ?) and this one manages to divert Rad's attention from Bruce. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: Rob Rickard Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:57:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] What is Evil? Evil; wrong or wicked - injurious. Now - what is wrong and who is wicked? That is for the couts, kings, and Immortals to decide. Alignment is to guide the character in play. If we put limits on what is Evil and Good we might end up putting limits on our characters that are not needed. I (Rob) have been choatic a few times in my life, but for the most part Im lawful. ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:57:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dispel magic Fabrizio Paoli pontificated: > > What happens when a spellcaster casts Dispel Magic on someone who has been > Raised by a cleric of a level lower than the first spellcaster ? > a) Nothing > b) Raise Dead goes down for 1d10 turns (as in the rules for Skyships). This > means that the poor one "dies" for 1d10 turns before becoming alive again. > c) Raise Dead is dispelled and the raised one dies forever (at least, until > raised again). a), spell that is permanent or instantaneous can not be dispeled. - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: - Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 02:01:42 +-100 Subject: SV: [Mystara] Dispel magic - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD5BE.E2A09D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fabrizio wrote: >What happens when a spellcaster casts Dispel Magic on someone who has = >been >Raised by a cleric of a level lower than the first spellcaster ? >a) Nothing >b) Raise Dead goes down for 1d10 turns (as in the rules for Skyships). = This >means that the poor one "dies" for 1d10 turns before becoming alive = again. >c) Raise Dead is dispelled and the raised one dies forever (at least, = until >raised again). >My opinion is a), because I see Raise Dead simply as a spell that opens = a >gate to Limbo, so it takes place istantaneously (like a Fireball) and = cannot >be dispelled. >What about Dispel Magic and Reincarnation ? The same.... Reincarnation is a instant spell which transfer the soul to = a living body. Then there is no more magic. The soul now belongs to the = new body, and there is no magic to dispel! 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I like your ideas a lot. Especially the Giants and the Quakes. There is one problem in my mind, though. What do they do in kingdoms like Shiye Lawr and Blackheart where nearly everyone is a spellcaster? Should Arogansa even have a team, with non-spellcasters basically slaves? It seems to me that at least in Limn spellcasters should play on the team, even if they can't use magic. After all, if a monster doesn't know magic, it's worthless, but a team made of monsters could go a long way! Just my opinion:) ------------------------------ From: - Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:57:58 +-100 Subject: SV: [Mystara] What is Evil? - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD5BD.2678B240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable you wrote: >...no good >comes from murder! A good person does everything he can to avoid >violence..... >>>>>>>>>>>> >then are all forms of military and thier personal all evil? If you=20 >die for your country isn't that a LG act? In a war, you can't always=20 >end it in non-violence, and if the troops are marching in to your=20 >country are you going to defeat them non-violently?=20 >It is good to fight for the benefit of others. It is evil to fight=20 >for personal gain. >-tim If you die for your country, it is a LN act. Dead simple. A good = personcan think for himself, and doesn't let others think for him. Can = somebody please get my point: It isn't good to kill. It doesn't need to = be evil either. To shoot hitler in the back would be a LN act, because = you thought of your honor, and the benefit of the order you beleived in. = You would have klilled the man because he was killing others. That is = Judgement. Fair Judgement =3D LN. Anyone disagree to the last one? A LG = warrior would try to injure his opponent, just to disable him for some = time, not to destroy him. A LG warrior would have done that even if he = new that the opponent would come after him another time. Another day, = another fight. And: Evil isn't fun... Evil is Repulsive! Only 14-year = old boys with pimples who wanks to underwear advertisements takes = pleasure in role-playing evil. I might not be a very good role-player, = but I just don't manage to play evil. It just ended with me running off = as a CG thief. Again. Therefore, I never play evil anymore. I can play = Brutal, but evil is another thing. "The symbol of ultimate Good" (Yeah, Right!) 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There is some extreme crisis in nature or the universe that requires some sacrifice and personal loss to gain a greater good.. One = of the more common sacrifices is the postponement of certain morals temporarily in favor of future peace and prosperity. Not to start a = flame, but I can generally mention several texts, fiction and otherwise, where gods commanded their peoples to murder, go to war, and even massacre = entire peoples, etc. in the name of lawfullness to either preserve the "people" = of that god, or to restore the "balance" of good and evil.. This epic struggle is what role playing is based on..., not the daily bar-room = brawl, but the larger struggle versus good and evil right at the critical = moment where catastrophe could happen... What role-playing does not depict accurately is the fact that "epic" struggles like this simply don't happen every two weeks in real life, = but hey... that's what fiction entertainment is for... Roleplaying a = peaceful day in the park for a dozen gaming sessions wouldn't be that = entertaining, now would it? :-) or maybe it could be..... I know of some very = creative gamemasters that don't have the players lift a sword the whole = session.... and we have a great time doing it! You are right. In a way. I try to base *good* characters on pacifist = priests or Martial Arts experts who knows how to stun opponents without = causing serious injury. And I give experence penalties to those players = (Good Ones) who behaves in a violent and "Where is the fighting?". The = most fun in role playing is ROLEPLAYING, not dicerolling about a piece = of paper vs. another one! =3D(:-) Tarjeh - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD5BE.E547A180 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjcBAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADAFAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAFNNVFAAbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABEAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYA AAAeAAEwAQAAABMAAAAnbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAFgAAAFNNVFA6TVlTVEFS QS1MQElPLkNPTQAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAF1CwBCIAHABgAAABJ UE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAHAAAAFNWOiBbTXlzdGFyYV0gV2hhdCBpcyBF dmlsPwA7CQEFgAMADgAAAMwHCwATAAIACAAcAAIAGQEBIIADAA4AAADMBwsAEwACAAgAHAACABkB AQmAAQAhAAAANUQzMTkxMjJBRTQxRDAxMTlCMzM0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAArwYBA5AGAOAGAAAQAAAA CwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAYMN1LLbVuwEeAHAAAQAAABwAAABT VjogW015c3RhcmFdIFdoYXQgaXMgRXZpbD8AAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbvVtix1IpExYUGuEdCbM0RF U1QAAAAAAwAGECl34I8DAAcQWgUAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAE1SVFdST1RFOklUSElOS1RISVNJU1RI RVJFQVNPTkZPUlRIRUVQSUNCQUNLRFJPUE9GQUxMVEhFTk9WRUxTV0VSRUFEVEhFUkVJU1NPTUVF WFRSRU1FQ1JJU0lTSU5OQVRVUkUAAAAAAgEJEAEAAACWBQAAkgUAAKoIAABMWkZ16blJ4P8ACgEP AhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMzdwLkBxMCgH0K gAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DAbmcxMDQ0CvQM0L4xGVAN8AtVFFEL8mMAQIEF0HIuIFQgdwNg BRPQOgqLbGkxODD5AtFpLRnzGd8L8hNQG+FCYwVASSB0aAuAa08fwgQgIFEf0GUgFhBhOnMCICAC EAXAILJlcJBpYyBiANBrZANg4HAgb2YgB0ADICCyIG5vdmVsBCB3ZTkcLTM2Hj8fRSDxZC7/JtAb kCDAFhAgciEgB4Ah0Px4dBYQJ8EFAQCQIGEDoLhuYXQIcCDQIXV1AwA/I5ARoR/BKSAKhRYQcXX2 aRYQJ4VzANAGgSIAINBxAHBkIHAqMQIgB0AgwxWgBBF0byBnC3Ei4M8t8CDxE9AFwGdvBHAm4fRP bilhZgqFILIEYCdBvQWgbQRgA6AsFyBncC2Q/nQyUC9wB4ACMCKyLIAAIPcuEjBxB0BzL8YT4DJQ M/CJBRBseSjSZmF2BbH5IsFmdSkzLPAA0CyVA2DicyzxaXR5G4AHsBvgfy3CE8AKwAVALlAY4QeA LK0KhWI2MB+hYwORZwnwrwSQIvE1QDLSaTECZSoh5y1RE9AoAHMsIVAiADsz/yyyG+AnIQPxOTAb sCciCoX9LvBkBCAwwiyxCYAgoitw2yzhIpBsB5Et0W0IcASB9zxQLvAtwncKwDxQLLI7kf8zsSEQ LBIhwTshPhc/9TxQ/RHAYxuAKOEjMzkRIrILYP53NiAjAC9wLaQ/sD1CNyGvB5AEkCOQIKMiP/Qi L5r/KSA+kjxQIXIt4CuBLdAnQf9HgyIwGPEsgEgyLuNBxQMQPybhJwEgUSHiCoUTwHJ1/GdnQDAg cj3gSQEDYE3h9QtReQuAZyByIjARsD0Rvm4m0TxQI3A4ISDBZAtw8zUxIjByLQNgA3AiIDPw3Hds OUogsgtgcjpgTWkdKiJ1BCBLeyDgaWdo/zixUIQFATswOiADIARgMtL/CoU94zoRAZBNgSKQVhII YPZsLNARgHAs8FACCoUKhcpXTlYtTuZkbweRUGLnDbAh8TixY2MIcC6hNTKvIJQ1kB+BSOMiIeIi TR37BCAc8GsqYidyB3ALUDVAuVuwbicFQFkkQgJyNUDsdHdBYQngayjDIPEtYf8GkD2xOcEKhSDA N8Am4SqC/idOJTx2MuEzZDLTIFEhYf8m0gfxQDBO5i5QNpNFwQqF/1DgNUMyEwrAIBAhYi5QW7D2 ekIxLgBtTyIRsAQQO0H3I8FY0mESYipkZehPITlGTyNwB+BsEyBwdD834DrsLSkpcgDAeWyhN6BY te9soCbRJuEfsGtuYiLBJ6P/YdNCsSkgKhE+NjkRQmEusf8gkkkBYPZHVU7ic+JjQTiy/wPgBbA/ cz3RTqJrhXDSCoX/LLIj4HTELlUfwAdxW6FPI9x0ISQPGi1aFlkIYCLg/ydBVXNxES4yQYA3wR+x YfLTLeBPkiAqLvIqKGARge9d4XPiITEKsGMsURPANyH/CJATwICBBcE4kQcxFLGBsf8n8CzxgbF2 8XFDBCB3AAfg/zhDKfAisFlAMqECMCPBRpH7CGBwMWFUYGtEBRAIYCjCtmoIcDfBQSzBH7BnKhH/ gtQJ8CyBWVEHQDswQESFgbMqUXVmKEdLgi9hc29w/4NibKB00ijDLlBMEE6hMvF9LLIiWpAnNV2T VYJPIT/+IibzMGGBMTYgA6Biwk6tAFJPTEVQTEFZ6ElOR1BEZCxxTpEc8P9oEgbgOdFoQQiQLIEi wQqweyzxVBBzG4AAcD0zT+FlsCEgPShvUVm8VArALmqLcFm8FTEAl5AAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAA AABAAAcwwAJjbrXVuwFAAAgwYMN1LLbVuwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABTVjogAAAAAKpJ - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD5BE.E547A180-- ------------------------------ From: Melik Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:15:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Who immortals were (Re: When immortals achieved immortality) >I'm there with you- Even though I've always been a great fan of Greek >Mythology (it's my favorite mythological tradition), I tend to ignore the >'Greek/Roman' Immortals that are mentioned in WotI and IM2. I just didn't >feel that they were done the justice they deserve. > >I have considered trying to place them in what should be their proper >home, in the pantheon of Milenian Immortals, but haven't as yet bothered >to do so. > >It especially tees me off that Zeus is only a Temporal (I think), whereas >his real world counterpart among the Norse, Odin, is a full fledged >Hierarch. Not in my Mystara, buddy! ;) > >Maybe I'll just make Odin/Zeus one Immortal, and say that's how he's >known among the Milenians... or I suppose I could go and make >Halav=Zeus... I don't know. At any rate, I was always of the mind that >Zeus would kick Odin's butt if the Norse and Greek/Roman gods ever had it >out... YMMV. ;) > Because the Mystaran incarnations of the awesome Greek and Scandinavian immortals were not done to justice, I like their original Dieties & Demigods descriptions instead. It has good mythological accuracy and feeling. Don't the Greek immortals go to the Thyatian pantheon, and the Romans to the Milenian? I thought the Thyatian Empire was the Greece of Mystara. I haven't read Dawn of the Emperors for a while so perchance I'm wrong. Although many Greek and Roman deities from Earth overlap, there are many that are only Greek and not Roman or vice versa. A good article about this is in Dragon #133. Thus, I would personally make some immortals distinctly Thyatian or Milenian - - the ones that are only Greek or Roman, and some that have names in each - Zeus/Jupiter is an obvious example. Of course Zeus would thrash Odin, for he traditionally has stupendous magical powers but the Norse gods in mythology are close to mere exalted status. :) It is interesting to see how many immortals are actually from Earth mythology - there are many more than the obvious ones. David Melik Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net P P l u justice = time ---------------- centralization^2 /amount of common people that prevent and stop the greedy\ P = | -------------------------------------------------------- | l \ amount of common people that obey like sheep / /amount of people with power that restrain their greed\ P = | ----------------------------------------------------- | u \ amount of people with power that exploit others / This is congruent to equations dealing with force, such as Newton's law of universal gravitation: m m Thus, physics proves that it is scientific law 1 2 that anarchy (decentralization, *not* crime & F = G ------- chaos) is good (but must be maintained). Power d^2 to the people! ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 22:53:39 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Great One (Re: When immortals achieved immortality) On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Shawn wrote: > What, no comment about what I wrote about the Great One, I thought it was > rather profound? Umm... how about, it was so deep, that I still haven't properly assimilated the information enough to post a suitable reply? ;) Actually, that's not too far from the truth. I'm still sort of pondering the import of things. I meant to go check back on the gold box set for information on Draeden and dragons, but I keep forgetting. ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 00:31:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Who immortals were (Re: When immortals achieved Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One pontificated: > > I'm there with you- Even though I've always been a great fan of Greek > Mythology (it's my favorite mythological tradition), I tend to ignore the > 'Greek/Roman' Immortals that are mentioned in WotI and IM2. I just didn't > feel that they were done the justice they deserve. I know what you meant, actually the Norse pantheon sort of annoys me too. However, I believe in IM2, it was said that those immortals are not the actual Greek Gods, just some of the newer (and foolish) immortals that want to copy some other beings they heard of. - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: giulio@imseap.imse.unige.it Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:23:45 MET Subject: [Mystara] Returned mail: Help I have got a little problem in my campain: I DM a party of 4 made up of: Human Ranger Cleric (Zirchev) ( NO COMMENT ON THIS, PLEASE) Elf Bladesinger Elf Mage Dwarf Warrior Actually the last two are brothers, but that is not the point. My players are VERY expert and even if their PC are low level ( ranging from 3 to 4) they easily get out of the nasty situations I plan for them, making my life difficoult. 3/4 being demihuman spells aren't allways effective, nor can I confront them with NPC too powerful, risking slaying the party or having the party entirely abandon the plot I planned. Also, playing in Specularum ( Kaldmont 8 1011 game time ) and soon moving to Ylaruam ( funny, I had palnned for them to go there and during a session the PC decided that they would be going there without me giving them any clue whatsoever ), I find difficoult using demihuman NPC ( I think demihuman should not be too common, correct me if I am wrong). Moreover my players are know the game better than I do, playng their PC at the top of their strengh. Any idea what should I do? Thanks a lot and take it easy Giulio Gennaro P.S. I love those Immortals' postings. P.P.S. If anybody is interested I can post a brief account of my campaign. Actaully I tried to post this message a couple of weeks ago but couldn't manage to get it through. I post it now, 'cause I still am in dire straits. Giulio Gennaro, hoping this time it will work. ------------------------------ From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 08:17:45 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bruce McGregor and The Sphere of Time << I've noticed that statement myself a few months ago. Maybe Sir Bruce worships a powerful immortal from the sphere of Time (Khoronus ?) and this one manages to divert Rad's attention from Bruce. >> if that is true it shouldnt be Khoronus the immortals symbol should be the claymore i looked through WotI and couldnt find anyone who has that symbol maybe its a Sphere of Time Immortal whos not detailed there at 28th level i assume he is powerful enough for his immortal to be looking out for him trying to keep him alive but could it also mean Bruce McGregor will one day be an immortal himself??? could the sphere of time be protecting his timeline ala the spell of preservation (i hope thats the spell im thinking of) or maybe hes a time immortal now and being in 1000-1014 is part of one of his trips to the future to help his family to continue their rule ------------------------------ From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:19:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bruce McGregor and The Sphere of Time << or maybe hes a time immortal now and being in 1000-1014 is part of one of his trips to the future to help his family to continue their rule >> actually now that i think about this Bruce has been trying to turn Angus away from the path of evil Angus already has plans to off Brannart maybe Angus is responsible for the future downfall of the McGregor Clan he may take over and eventually end the family line he has potential to be a major player in mystara hes already a high level mage with access to the Radiance and most importantly he still has his youth From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 09:59:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA20465; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:29:21 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA16331 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:53:33 -0600 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:53:33 -0600 Message-Id: <199611200253.UAA16331@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #289 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 65d97a6e42b575aa5ae57736e9e6c7ba Bruce may exist in this time to stop Angus and change him any thoughts??? ------------------------------ From: Tarjeh Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:29:04 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Returned mail: Help giulio@imseap.imse.unige.it wrote: > > > I have got a little problem in my campain: > > > I DM a party of 4 made up of: Human Ranger Cleric (Zirchev) > ( NO COMMENT ON THIS, PLEASE) > Elf Bladesinger > Elf Mage > Dwarf Warrior > Actually the last two are brothers, but that is not the point. > My players are VERY expert and even if their PC are low level > ( ranging from 3 to 4) they easily get out of the nasty situations > I plan for them, making my life difficoult. > 3/4 being demihuman spells aren't allways effective, nor can I > confront them with NPC too powerful, risking slaying the party > or having the party entirely abandon the plot I planned. > Also, playing in Specularum ( Kaldmont 8 1011 game time ) and > soon moving to Ylaruam ( funny, I had palnned for them to go there > and during a session the PC decided that they would be going there > without me giving them any clue whatsoever ), I find difficoult > using demihuman NPC ( I think demihuman should not be too common, > correct me if I am wrong). Moreover my players are know the game > better than I do, playng their PC at the top of their strengh. > > Any idea what should I do? > > Thanks a lot and take it easy > > Giulio Gennaro > > P.S. I love those Immortals' postings. > > P.P.S. If anybody is interested I can post a brief account of my > campaign. > > Actaully I tried to post this message a couple of weeks ago but couldn't > manage to get it through. > I post it now, 'cause I still am in dire straits. > > Giulio Gennaro, hoping this time it will work. I've got a solution I often use against such problems. Try to attack them with *a lot* of weak monsters like kobolds or goblins, (gibberlings). At any point, you can stop them from attacking, and the players may barely survive... You have full control. You can wound them badly, but since one attack only cause 1-6 hp damage or less, you are sure they won't be killed. (If you don't want them too). Watch out: A third level mage can employ spells like Burning hands, Dancing Lights and Cantrip, which, isn't that powerful, but frightening for primitive monsters like Gibberlings, Goblins and Kobolds. Try this! I've used it with success, but be warned; this may cause confusion, so try to keep the players in order! Tarjeh ------------------------------ From: Reg Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:42:38 -0600 Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] What is Evil? >If you die for your country, it is a LN act. Dead simple. A good personcan think for himself, and doesn't let others think for him. Can somebody please get my point: It isn't good to kill. It doesn't need to be evil either. To shoot hitler in the back would be a LN act, because you thought of your honor, and the benefit of the order you beleived in. You would have klilled the man because he was killing others. That is Judgement. Fair Judgement = LN. Anyone disagree to the last one? A LG warrior would try to injure his opponent, just to disable him for some time, not to destroy him. A LG warrior would have done that even if he new that the opponent would come after him another time. Another day, another fight. And: Evil isn't fun... Evil is Repulsive! Only 14-year old boys with pimples who wanks to underwear advertisements takes pleasure in role-playing evil. I might not be a very good role-player, but I just don't manage to play evil. It just ended with me running off as a CG thief. Again. Therefore, I never play evil anymore. I can play Brutal, but evil is another thing. Evil is not a repulsive thing, we as humans, desire evil as much as we desire good. With out one there is no other. Role-playing and acting are like cousins in this fact, we as players assume fictional roles. Some of the most famous roles are the ones for evil. The villians and badguys make the moives. So to is it with roleplaying. As Star Wars would be nothing without Darth Vadar. So to Mystara with out its Entropy Immortals, Karameikos without Bargle and the Black Baron, and most parties with out that evil player to balance the paladin. To think that only 14-year old boys with pimples are the only ones to enjoy imagining about evil is wrong. Ask any actor and they will tell you the most satisfing parts to play are always the villian. Why the villian, they are the ones to make the action. The give good a goal to destroy. But those actions they take must be put into place. Each villian has goals and motives. Being brutal isn't being evil. Killing isn't being evil. Evil is the sake of suffering and harm for the sake of enjoyment. A man who kills another in self-defense is think LN. A man who kills another for the sake of the common good is thinking LG. A man who kills another for enjoyment is stupid, but the man who carves up the man's wife and roasts his children in front of him, but lets man live to remember it is a good start for evil. Evil is sometimes nothing more than someone who doesn't agree with our point of view. Reginald The MageSlayer ------------------------------ From: Deathwatch Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:50:07 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dispel magic At 21:19 18-11-96 +0100, you wrote: >What happens when a spellcaster casts Dispel Magic on someone who has been >Raised by a cleric of a level lower than the first spellcaster ? >a) Nothing >b) Raise Dead goes down for 1d10 turns (as in the rules for Skyships). This >means that the poor one "dies" for 1d10 turns before becoming alive again. >c) Raise Dead is dispelled and the raised one dies forever (at least, until >raised again). > >My opinion is a), because I see Raise Dead simply as a spell that opens a >gate to Limbo, so it takes place istantaneously (like a Fireball) and cannot >be dispelled. > >What about Dispel Magic and Reincarnation ? I think a) too, but I like the other options too... :) Bas ------------------------------ From: Matthew_Kammann@westtown.edu (Matthew Kammann) Date: 19 Nov 1996 19:45:59 GMT Subject: Re: Re: [Mystara] What is Evil? mystara-l@io.com,Internet writes: I (Rob) have been choatic a few times in my life, but for the most part Im lawful. I ( Matthew ) eat lawful people for fun. ok here it goes one more time. Evil= FUN Good= boring death= change Good + Death = fun or evil. the death or harm of good creatures is fun and evil. where as the destruction of evil is just repeditive. ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 22:31:55 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dispel magic At 20.57 18/11/96 -0500, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: > >a), spell that is permanent or instantaneous can not be dispeled. This means that I can't dispel a Continual Light or a Wizard Lock ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 22:31:58 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bruce McGregor and The Sphere of Time At 08.17 19/11/96 -0500, CRlPTONITE@aol.com wrote: ><< I've noticed that statement myself a few months ago. > Maybe Sir Bruce worships a powerful immortal from the sphere of Time > (Khoronus ?) and this one manages to divert Rad's attention from Bruce. >> > >if that is true it shouldnt be Khoronus >the immortals symbol should be the claymore >i looked through WotI and couldnt find anyone who has that symbol >maybe its a Sphere of Time Immortal whos not detailed there >at 28th level i assume he is powerful enough >for his immortal to be looking out for him >trying to keep him alive I wrote Khoronus because he was the first Time Immortal that occurred to me. Anyway I think that the same immortal could have different symbols. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Ixion (one of the most popular immortals) is described having different symbols in the various areas where he is worshipped (Alphatia, Sind, Ethengar, Darokin, Nithian Empire, Azcan, Milenian Empire ....). On the other hand the claymore is the typical scottish, so, unless some klantryan achieved immortality after arriving in Mystara, Bruce may worship an Immortal from Laterre. > >but could it also mean >Bruce McGregor will one day be an immortal himself??? >could the sphere of time be protecting his timeline >ala the spell of preservation (i hope thats the spell im thinking of) > >or maybe hes a time immortal now >and being in 1000-1014 is part of one of his trips to the future >to help his family to continue their rule > Nice idea. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 22:32:01 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams At 02.19 19/11/96 +0000, you wrote: >I like your ideas a lot. Especially the Giants and the Quakes. There is >one problem in my mind, though. What do they do in kingdoms like Shiye Lawr >and Blackheart where nearly everyone is a spellcaster? Should Arogansa even >have a team, with non-spellcasters basically slaves? It seems to me that at >least in Limn spellcasters should play on the team, even if they can't use >magic. After all, if a monster doesn't know magic, it's worthless, but a >team made of monsters could go a long way! Just my opinion:) I thought to this problem too, especially Blackheart, because they're not only spellcasters, but also _reclusive_ spellcasters. Anyway spellcasters aren't forbidden to play, they can't only use magic. Probably the Blackheart team will be a weak one. I don't see any problem with Shiye Lawr elves, because elves like to play and because of their longevity there could be some mythical elvish player: 300 years always on the top ! About Arogansa I don't know. About Limn, yes... I agree with you. So, here it is a list of teams putting together your ideas, my ideas and Herve's ones. Blackhearth: Shraek Beholders Frisland: Shiell Yetis Ambur: Ambur Stars Ar: ???? Foresthome: Lakim Rangers Limn: Trollhattan 'Noids Stonewall: Draco Warriors Stoutfellow: Stoutfellow Giants Shye Lawr: Alfleish Pranksters Haven: Dovir Masterpiece, Aasla Artists ?? Greenspur: Greenspur Marlins, Eagret Admirals or Captains ??? Arogansa: Bluenose Surfers, Dhobig Baywatchers, Arogansa Wizards ??? Eadrin: Archport Sharks, Archport Cardinals Randel: Rardish Raiders, Dmiliburg Cavaliers Bettellyn: Citadel Quakes Theranderol: Errolyn Imperials, Vertiloch: Sundsvall Capitals, Sundsvall Maelstroms Herve said that in the HW there is no more the Alphatian Sea, so the teams from Eadrin and Arogansa (Surfers, Sharks and Baywatchers) should be renamed. What about: Gliders (or Sailers), Rocs (or Hawks) and Skywatchers ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: Matthew Levy Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:10:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Another Zugzul rant... :) On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, David 'Azure' Leland wrote: > > I don't know about Zugzul being a pseudonym for another Immortal, > but I think it would be interesting for Zugzul to have worshippers on Zyxl > if we have Zyxl populated by a Amazonian/Japanese hybrid culture, as was > suggested a while back by Matthew, I think. This would make sense since the > Afridhi were a matriarchical culture, thus maintaining an association > between Zugzul and female-dominated societies. Since Zugzul is supposed to > be male himself, that raises an interesting question as to why he would > favor female-dominated cultures. I can think of a bunch of psychologically > interesting possibilities for the mortal life of Zugzul that would make him > this way. Perhaps it is sexually motivated (the high priestess is his > mistress in Afridhi culture) and Zugzul sees all other males as competitors? > Perhaps, in mortal life, Zugzul wished he were a female (although then why > wouldn't he assume a female form and identity as an Immortal)? Perhaps > Zugzul is actually rather androgynous and supports different cultures (i.e. > not just female-dominated ones) and assumes the gender opposite that of the > dominant one, so as to be the master/mistress of the high priest(ess) in > each case? > I love all of the above. I say now to everyone on the list: Mystara is sorely lacking in psychosexual weirdness. I would add one: perhaps Zugzul was a male who was weak and neurotic in life and terrified by women ... his cult could actually involve many males who castrate themselves to show their sympathy for Zugzul ... palace Eunuchs could control much of the bureaucracy (throwing a Chinese Imperial theme in with the Amazonian and Japanese bits). Do you think the Zyxli are aware of the long history of their Afridhi ancestors? m@2 ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #289 ***************************** mystara-digest Wednesday, 20 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 290 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Melik Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:15:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] MOrient I'm wondering what is happening with MOrient... does anyone know? I wrote to Joe Duncan quite some time ago because I had promised to do some work for it. Is there someone else I could talk to perhaps? "Men do call me Jock O' Threshold, and thence I am come," said the scarlet-clad stranger with a patch over one eye. "Then by Djaea, Jock, thou art the fairest archer that e'er mine eyes beheld, and if thou wilt join my service I will clothe thee with a better coat than thou hast upon thy back; thou shalt eat and drink of the best, and at every Kaldmont fourscore gold coins shall be thy wage. Say good fellow, wilt thou join my service?" said the Sherrif. "Nay, I will not," quoth the stranger, roughly. "I will be mine own, and no man in all merry Karameikos shall be my master." David Melik Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net P P l u justice = time ---------------- centralization^2 /amount of common people that prevent and stop the greedy\ P = | -------------------------------------------------------- | l \ amount of common people that obey like sheep / /amount of people with power that restrain their greed\ P = | ----------------------------------------------------- | u \ amount of people with power that exploit others / This is congruent to equations dealing with force, such as Newton's law of universal gravitation: m m Thus, physics proves that it is scientific law 1 2 that anarchy (decentralization, *not* crime & F = G ------- chaos) is good (but must be maintained). Power d^2 to the people! ------------------------------ From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:11:23, -0500 Subject: [Mystara] Evil is What? Evil is sometimes nothing more than someone who doesn't agree with our point of view. >>>>>>>>>>>> this is probably the best definition. (let's use the hitler example one more time) Just as much as we see Hitler as evil His people saw us as evil And this also is the case with the situation between the US and Iraq. So, here's a question i've often pondered: If you cast Know Alignment on a certain person whose alignment isn't evil, but would be considered evil by the caster, what would be the result? - -tim ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 22:37:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dispel magic Fabrizio Paoli pontificated: > > At 20.57 18/11/96 -0500, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: > > > > >a), spell that is permanent or instantaneous can not be dispeled. > > This means that I can't dispel a Continual Light or a Wizard Lock ? > I guess I was wrong ... make that spell with instantaneous duration can not be dispelled. It is in the rule book somewhere, I just don't remember where or even which rule book. - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: Patrick Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 04:39:45 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bruce McGregor and The Sphere of Time >> Maybe Sir Bruce worships a powerful immortal from the sphere of Time >> (Khoronus ?) and this one manages to divert Rad's attention from Bruce. >> >> >>if that is true it shouldnt be Khoronus >>the immortals symbol should be the claymore >>i looked through WotI and couldnt find anyone who has that symbol >>maybe its a Sphere of Time Immortal whos not detailed there >>at 28th level i assume he is powerful enough >>for his immortal to be looking out for him >>trying to keep him alive > >I wrote Khoronus because he was the first Time Immortal that occurred to me. >Anyway I think that the same immortal could have different symbols. Correct >me if I'm wrong, but I think that Ixion (one of the most popular immortals) >is described having different symbols in the various areas where he is >worshipped (Alphatia, Sind, Ethengar, Darokin, Nithian Empire, Azcan, >Milenian Empire ....). >On the other hand the claymore is the typical scottish, so, unless some >klantryan achieved immortality after arriving in Mystara, Bruce may worship >an Immortal from Laterre. It seems to me that if any immortal were to be interested in supporting the Society of the Claymore (or whatever it's called), it would be Vanya. That could also explain why the society lost most of it's power during WotI, when Vanya was supporting Glantri. Plus, Vanya seems to be the only Time immortal with much interest at all in Glantri, except perhaps Prince Harald's patron if he has one. You're absolutely right about one immortal having many symbols. ------------------------------ From: Reg Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 22:31:38 -0600 Subject: [Mystara] MChina and WotI I am curious about who is doing MChina and what information I could find on it. I am also curious about The Wraith of the Immortals Box Set. I never had a chance to pick it up. Thank you Reginald the MageSlayer ------------------------------ From: sean@netidea.com (Sean Nicolson) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 22:28:07 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Evil is What? >So, here's a question i've often pondered: >If you cast Know Alignment on a certain person whose alignment isn't >evil, but would be considered evil by the caster, what would be the >result? >-tim > I've kept out of this whole Evil/Good thread, because I don't use alignment rules, but in my campaign if you cast Know Alignment the person reads as evil if the casters IMMORTAL thinks the person's behaivour is evil. It doesn't depend on the casters judgement. (This also helps reduce arguements later, in case of a tough judgement call.) Sean Nicolson sean@netidea.com ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 22:24:45 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > I thought to this problem too, especially Blackheart, because they're not > only spellcasters, but also _reclusive_ spellcasters. Anyway spellcasters > aren't forbidden to play, they can't only use magic. Probably the Blackheart > team will be a weak one. I don't see any problem with Shiye Lawr elves, > because elves like to play and because of their longevity there could be > some mythical elvish player: 300 years always on the top ! Actually, I'd think that if there is a Blackheart team, they'd be one of the worst terrors on the court. There are still plenty of nasty fighters and thieves there in Blackheart, and they are probably some of the down and dirtiest Hardball players there are. I mean, in a country where the only laws are that you can't kill the King or damage his property, can you imagine the sort of nasty tactics they use? Admittedly, when playing outside of Blackheart, they'd probably have to tone things down a bit, but can you just see a game within their own territory? Blood everywhere, the body count rises... it boggles the mind... > About Arogansa I don't know. Arogansa I could see either way, but needless to say that the team wouldn't be terribly happy. We're talking poor upkeep, the training is grueling and unforgiving... they'd probably be pretty tough comers, but very discontent with the state of their team- everyone would hope for a trade somewhere else. ;) ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 22:00:23 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Who immortals were (Re: When immortals achieved immortality) On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Melik wrote: > Don't the Greek immortals go to the Thyatian pantheon, and the Romans to the > Milenian? I thought the Thyatian Empire was the Greece of Mystara. I > haven't read Dawn of the Emperors for a while so perchance I'm wrong. > Although many Greek and Roman deities from Earth overlap, there are many > that are only Greek and not Roman or vice versa. A good article about this > is in Dragon #133. Actually, it's more like the Byzantine Empire, due to it's more Renaissance-like feel. If anything, the Milenians would be the Greeks (I believe they are based on Classical Greece, where the Traladarans are Bronze Age Greeks), and the Thyatians would be Roman. > Thus, I would personally make some immortals distinctly Thyatian or Milenian > - the ones that are only Greek or Roman, and some that have names in each - > Zeus/Jupiter is an obvious example. There definitely seem to be a large number of Alphatian Immortals; one wonders at the lack of Thyatian Immortals, especially given that that Empire is nearly as old as Alphatia- certainly older than most other nations of the Known World. > Of course Zeus would thrash Odin, for he traditionally has stupendous > magical powers but the Norse gods in mythology are close to mere exalted > status. :) My thoughts exactly. ;) Maybe I read too many Marvel comics growing up, but I've always been of the opinion that Zeus would seriously thrash Odin. I might grant that Odin is the wiser (he did hang himself for insight into the workings of the universe), whereas Zeus is notoriously hot-tempered. Which brings up a thought- maybe they got rid of Zeus as an Immortal simply so they wouldn't have to deal with all those darned kids of his running around Mystara- he was also a notorious wencher. ;) ------------------------------ From: Patrick Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 04:39:41 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams >I thought to this problem too, especially Blackheart, because they're not >only spellcasters, but also _reclusive_ spellcasters. Anyway spellcasters >aren't forbidden to play, they can't only use magic. Probably the Blackheart >team will be a weak one. I don't see any problem with Shiye Lawr elves, >because elves like to play and because of their longevity there could be >some mythical elvish player: 300 years always on the top ! >About Arogansa I don't know. >About Limn, yes... I agree with you. I agree with everything you say here. I was just trying to point out that magic-users playing hardball wasn't completely unheard of. >So, here it is a list of teams putting together your ideas, my ideas and >Herve's ones. > >Blackhearth: Shraek Beholders >Frisland: Shiell Yetis >Ambur: Ambur Stars >Ar: ???? Ooh. I never thought of that. I like Pegataurs for the old Ar, but now? Maybe Ar could become more prosperous through use of whatever flying creatures were on the ground when the continent sank, since any means of air transport must now be in very high demand, so perhaps Pegaturs would still work. But maybe not! >Foresthome: Lakim Rangers >Limn: Trollhattan 'Noids >Stonewall: Draco Warriors >Stoutfellow: Stoutfellow Giants >Shye Lawr: Alfleish Pranksters >Haven: Dovir Masterpiece, Aasla Artists ?? I can't quite decide whether I like artists or not. It was my first idea for Haven, but I thought it might just be too obvious. But I still like it. I don't know. >Greenspur: Greenspur Marlins, Eagret Admirals or Captains ??? I personally like the Marlins or Admirals. Admirals has the benefit that it would work just as well in the Hollow World. Does a hardball team have a team captain? If so, then I really think that the Captains wouldn't work, although it's a good idea. >Arogansa: Bluenose Surfers, Dhobig Baywatchers, Arogansa Wizards ??? I'm still very unsure here. What should the team be like? >Eadrin: Archport Sharks, Archport Cardinals I like the sharks, although it won't work as well in the hollow world. It finally dawned on me why the Cardinals came to mind for Archport: St. Louis has the Gateway Arch AND the Cardinals! (sorry, i just figured out what i was thinking) Why is it called Archport, anyway? >Randel: Rardish Raiders, Dmiliburg Cavaliers I prefer the Cavaliers >Bettellyn: Citadel Quakes >Theranderol: Errolyn Imperials, >Vertiloch: Sundsvall Capitals, Sundsvall Maelstroms I like your ideas a lot! >Herve said that in the HW there is no more the Alphatian Sea, so the teams >from Eadrin and Arogansa (Surfers, Sharks and Baywatchers) should be renamed. >What about: Gliders (or Sailers), Rocs (or Hawks) and Skywatchers Well, I'm not quite sure that Baywatchers would have to change (I love this name, BTW). As for the others, they all sound ok. P.S.- I must apologize for correcting the Kingdom of East Portage to the Kingdom of Hillvale. I just noticed in PWA1 that it says Kingdom of East Portage. I never noticed that before. Sorry. ------------------------------ From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 10:00:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id FAA01872; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 05:58:55 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA23958 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:45:36 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:45:36 -0600 Message-Id: <199611201745.LAA23958@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #290 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 46cbe8442c52317b2d383d443f0a74cd From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 22:16:51 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Returned mail: Help On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 giulio@imseap.imse.unige.it wrote: > Also, playing in Specularum ( Kaldmont 8 1011 game time ) and > soon moving to Ylaruam ( funny, I had palnned for them to go there > and during a session the PC decided that they would be going there > without me giving them any clue whatsoever ), I find difficoult > using demihuman NPC ( I think demihuman should not be too common, > correct me if I am wrong). Moreover my players are know the game > better than I do, playng their PC at the top of their strengh. > > Any idea what should I do? Here are a couple of suggestions that might work a bit: If they are so capable of flexing their muscles, so to speak, why not try to challenge them in other ways. Try placing them in situations where simply beating the opposition to death doesn't solve the problem. Specularum is a perfect location for this, as you can delve into all sorts of political situations- you have the Radu clan, the Vorloi, and Torenescu clans- all of these provide ample ammunition for a more political based game. Give them a few NPCs in highly placed positions who are out to do them harm. Instead of being able to just track them down and kill their nemeses, they will have to work within the political system, otherwise they will have to face the justice of Karameikos. I really love to get involved in these situations, where black and white are not necessarily mutually exclusive. It really gets the players to think, and do something other than just hack 'n slash. If you do a scenario like this, I recommend using the XP rules for roleplaying and solving scenarios (or, if you have the AD&D DM's Guide, consider using the XP rules for specific class related activities). Another thing to do is... (checking to see if anyone is looking) cheat. Yes, this is the DM's greatest last resort. I can't tell you how much fun it was to toy with my players in one campaign- this particular adventure I sent them on was sort of horror-based; they were fighting opponents summoned by the Horn of the Hunt, an artifact I made up- at any rate, one of the players, whose character was a mystic, was in the middle of a heated and chaotic battle in the middle of town. He swung his staff at a goblin, scoring maximum damage (I think he hit for like, 10 points or so). His expression was priceless when I told him that the goblin just grinned back at him, seemingly unfazed by the attack. Admittedly, I cheated (though I could give you any number of justifications for it- though the primary reason was just to see what sort of a reaction it would get). To this day, we still joke about that incident; it definitely made my players (and their characters) think twice about so called easy pickings. So, I guess the point is, don't be afraid to cheat a bit, if it advances the story. Personally, I try to steer away from large scale combats, preferring individual confrontations, with a lot of parry/dodge/parry/strike action. If your players' characters use weapon mastery/specialisation rules, let your monsters use them as well. Play your monsters smarter, not necessarily tougher. There is a great article in an old issue of Dragon, where a band of kobolds is made into a terrible foe, by sheer virtue of making them use traps, and other sorts of snares for the foes, even though they remain mere 1/2 hd creatures. That's about it for now. Hope I helped. :) ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:33:25 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dispel magic Fabrizzio wrote: > >a), spell that is permanent or instantaneous can not be dispeled. > This means that I can't dispel a Continual Light or a Wizard Lock ? That would, yes. Actually as I see it you can, of cource dispell any permanent spell (as long as you are powerful enough), but the ones that can not are the instantaneous ones. It is quite hard to dispell for excample a fireball as it just comes and explodes before anyone can even understand it. Just the same way all the healing spells are instantaneous. when cast they heal. After they have healed they are gone. As well as ere the raise dead and reincarnate spells. They bring the soul back, and reincarnate even creates a body for it, but that is just what they do. They dont stay with the raised one, keeping him alive forever, they just raise them. And the created body is created wholly,absolutetly. It is now a real body not a magical illusion. Of cource there are other spells that could be dispelled with strange effects. In my games, many of the spells that keep one young stay with the person, and so can be dispelled, causing all of the kept age to came to the person instantaneously. Then again a spell that just turns the patient younger would propably be a different event. Once the person is made younger, the spell is gone and the person starts to age again, year by year. though ofcource this kind of spells could be cast as permanent too (as a polymorph spell) And also there are such kind of create spells too that can be dispelled. say firewall or web. All create spells that have permanent or timed duration can be dispelled but a instantaneus one cannot be. For excample the create-spells in the DotE box are all instantaneous, once the item is created it is an unmagical real object. Subject to aging, corrosion etc. but not to dispelling. So there. But ofcource I wouldnt object if you decided otherwise. And surely in my campaing there will be in the future a scenario where say a mage raises dead, but actually just animates the living back to a living-like state. Then he/she can be dispelled. And as long as he/she knows it, it will surely be Fun. At this kind of scenario I would probably rule that as soon as the dispelling spell or other phenomen stops its effect on the person dispelled he/she would be animated again. But ofcource it would depend mostly on the original spell. Both can be possible at the same time. Also depending on the original spell it could be possible for a cleric to turn the animated soul... Just thinking aloud... Pasi P.S: There came to my mind that happened to a player in my game some three years ago... He, a mighty warrior, and a ex-cleric of Vanya, the war goddess, had lost his arm in a battle against lizardmen a year or two ago. He was in a low state of mind, having turned away from his goddes who had not brought his arm back, but instead sent him for a almost impossible mission, to show his faith. Of course, one could say that he had not succeeded in showing faith, as he no longer worshipped the goddes. After having tried everything to gain back the arm, the now warrior heard about a mage who might be able to help him. So he traveled to a tower not far from Selenica, finding the old, withered man who was the mage. The wizard agreed to the task, after a great reward was promised and paid. And in couple of day the ex-cleric was two-handed again. The man was happy, a happines not dimished by the fact that the new arm was old and pale, as withered as was the mage himself. It was still an arm, and despise the looks, it was strong and true. The friends of the ex-cleric were horrified however. And so were all that saw the arm. Some thinking it sick, but many feeling the true origins of the animated arm, necromancy. And soon came the day when a passing cleric horrified of what he saw and felt raised his holy item against the warrior. And see, the arm could not raise against the cleric, it was in pain as was also the now-warrior. He fled from the holy brother, to the night and countryside. But that was not all. After the episode the hand started acting strangly. In battle it fought well, butt allways trying to kill the enemy. And it did other stuf too. The warrior was dismayed. He was not really an evil man himself, amd he could not accept what was happening. But in the end he had to. And in the end he cut the arm off himself... - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: jduke@zebra.net (Joseph Duke) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 05:29:30 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Returned mail: Help He swung his staff at a > goblin, scoring maximum damage (I think he hit for like, 10 points or > so). His expression was priceless when I told him that the goblin just > grinned back at him, seemingly unfazed by the attack. Admittedly, I > cheated (though I could give you any number of justifications for it- > though the primary reason was just to see what sort of a reaction it > would get). Ever hear of a 90 hit point Orc? Still attacks like a 1 HD, still AC5, just 90 hit points so the orcs would last more than 1 round in combat without having to over-do-it with 20 orcs or so...hey if the shoe fits.... > > So, I guess the point is, don't be afraid to cheat a bit, if it advances > the story. Personally, I try to steer away from large scale combats, > preferring individual confrontations, with a lot of > parry/dodge/parry/strike action. If your players' characters use weapon > mastery/specialisation rules, let your monsters use them as well. Play > your monsters smarter, not necessarily tougher. There is a great article > in an old issue of Dragon, where a band of kobolds is made into a > terrible foe, by sheer virtue of making them use traps, and other sorts > of snares for the foes, even though they remain mere 1/2 hd creatures. Try putting Kobolds in full plate armor with little metal boxes connected to the from they kobolds have no weapons except a short (1-2 foot) blow pipe. Every other round they retreat as fast as possible. on the round they are not retreating they are reaching in the boxes with their mailed glove on getting out a rot grub to shoot through the blow pipe at the characters. Imagine the horror when there are about 30-40 rot grubs flying at a party from all over the place. Joe ------------------------------ From: Victor Caminha Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:51:27 -0200 Subject: [Mystara] The Net-Pwa 1014 Greetings to all. First , let me present myself. I am a brasilian Lurker, and a Mystara-fanatic also (though i play it in D&D only). I received the note of a project called Net-Pwa and i am very curious about it. Could anyone give some info? Thanks for your troubles, Victor pS; anyone has played M3 Twilight Calling? its consequences are part of my campaign and i was plannig if this wont be much pretentious to send it as a suggestion for 1014 "Receive the bounty of your hero's deed Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead Eternally running from a priestly bead Unable to bear the Orb in your head You'll walk in the darkness so alluring Without Hope to cleanse your sin Away from the joy of the living Forever to serve your Twin" ------------------------------ From: Jody Duncan Date: Wed, 20 Nov 96 9:34:54 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] MOrient Melik writes: > > I'm wondering what is happening with MOrient... does anyone know? I wrote > to Joe Duncan quite some time ago because I had promised to do some work for > it. Is there someone else I could talk to perhaps? Not really. I have all the material ready in text format, and I was about to release it to the design team so we could start work, when it was suggested that I change the format to one large word 2.0 document. I've been very pre-occupied with school since then ( i got a little behind and haven't quite caught up ), however, I will try to get it reformatted this weekend.... > David Melik > Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net > > P P > l u > justice = time ---------------- > centralization^2 > > /amount of common people that prevent and stop the greedy\ > P = | -------------------------------------------------------- | > l \ amount of common people that obey like sheep / > /amount of people with power that restrain their greed\ > P = | ----------------------------------------------------- | > u \ amount of people with power that exploit others / > > This is congruent to equations dealing with force, such as Newton's law of > universal gravitation: > m m Thus, physics proves that it is scientific law > 1 2 that anarchy (decentralization, *not* crime & > F = G ------- chaos) is good (but must be maintained). Power > d^2 to the people! > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive!" Carleton U. Computer Science, Software Email addresses: jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca cq793@freenet.carleton.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #290 ***************************** From ???@??? Sat Nov 23 11:27:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA01342; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:09:57 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA00789 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:40:07 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:40:07 -0600 Message-Id: <199611210340.VAA00789@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #291 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 530f16a4161730663f0b99e4a5b63260 mystara-digest Wednesday, 20 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 291 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Enrique Pacheco Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:32:30 -0600 Subject: [Mystara] Tothia I run a campaign in Mystara. Right now my characters (about 9th Lv.) are trying to develop a small town on the southwestern edge of the great escarpment (this takes place after WoTI) in Tothia. I have found almost no information on this plateu, but have created wandering monster tzables and placed a very old city that collapsed about 1000 years ago under the town (See the pyramid of Jenkel on Dungeon Magazine #23). Any information on this part of the Known World would be welcomed! - -- Good government never depends upon laws, but upon the personal qualities of those who govern. The machinery of government is always subordinate to the will of those who administer that machinery. The most important element of government, therefore, is the method of choosing leaders. Law and Governance The Spacing Guild Manual Children of Dune 148 Enrique Pacheco ------------------------------ From: Enrique Pacheco Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:32:11 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dispel magic Fabrizzio wrote: > >a), spell that is permanent or instantaneous can not be dispeled. > This means that I can't dispel a Continual Light or a Wizard Lock ? One thing, I am not sure where I read it, however, any spell can be dispelled if a dispel magic is cast in the area of a caster before he finishes it. If the caster of the fireball lost initiative and a mage casted dispel magic in his area his concentration would be instantly ruined (no saving throw) and the spell is lost. This can be a great help both for characters and thier enemies. - -- Good government never depends upon laws, but upon the personal qualities of those who govern. The machinery of government is always subordinate to the will of those who administer that machinery. The most important element of government, therefore, is the method of choosing leaders. Law and Governance The Spacing Guild Manual Children of Dune 148 Enrique Pacheco ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:35:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams Fabrizio Paoli pontificated: > Ar: ???? Flyers? > Vertiloch: Sundsvall Capitals, Sundsvall Maelstroms But most people in Sundsvall now don't remember the Maelstrom, right? - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: Reg Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:19:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Returned mail: Help At 10:16 PM 11/19/96 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 giulio@imseap.imse.unige.it wrote: > >> Also, playing in Specularum ( Kaldmont 8 1011 game time ) and >> soon moving to Ylaruam ( funny, I had palnned for them to go there >> and during a session the PC decided that they would be going there >> without me giving them any clue whatsoever ), I find difficoult >> using demihuman NPC ( I think demihuman should not be too common, >> correct me if I am wrong). Moreover my players are know the game >> better than I do, playng their PC at the top of their strengh. >> >> Any idea what should I do? I have always found that keeping my players guessing what happens next has always been one of the hardest parts of DMing and the most enjoyable. If you keep the players guessing and off balance, you won't have them keeping you scrabling for what's next. Mental challenges are the best, espionage adventures and horror adventures are great for this. Dopplegangers are great for mental trips. Imagine trying to chase down a doppleganger throught the Royal Court. Or even worse, try having the party track down a small group of dopplegangers all assuming the same identiites. And since they ESP they could communicate with each other about which identity they are assuming. Remember those old cartoon chases where someone would walking into a door and come out another. Give your players this headache and watch they stumble. Throw into this nice little a plot a conspiracy to kill the Duke and the scheme plans of the Torenescu Clan, Radu Clan, and Vorloi Clan with the Veiled Society and maybe a wererat or two for good measure. Watch your players be dazzled by which person is who. If done right, your players will the most paraniod group of people in the Grand Duchy. P.S.: If you are really evil, rewrite the adventure to follow along like a Quinten Tarrinteno movie (Pulp Fiction and Resivor Dogs come to mind). The players won't understand half of what's going on. Reginald the MageSlayer May God stand between you and harm in the empty places you must walk The Mad Malk (Or am I just sane?) ------------------------------ From: - Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:26:58 +-100 Subject: SV: [Mystara] Evil is What? - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD709.382BE960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Evil is sometimes nothing more than someonewho doesn't agree with our point of view. >>>>>>>>>>>> this is probably the best definition. (let's use the hitler example one more time) Just as much as we see Hitler as evil His people saw us as evil And this also is the case with the situation between the US and Iraq. So, here's a question i've often pondered: If you cast Know Alignment on a certain person whose alignment isn't evil, but would be considered evil by the caster, what would be the result? - -tim Very Good....... Very Good........ Evil of course, it's all in the casters mind, how he sees good or evil! - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD709.382BE960 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhwQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAFNNVFAAbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABEAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYA AAAeAAEwAQAAABMAAAAnbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAFgAAAFNNVFA6TVlTVEFS QS1MQElPLkNPTQAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAD0CwBCIAHABgAAABJ UE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAHAAAAFNWOiBbTXlzdGFyYV0gRXZpbCBpcyBX aGF0PwA7CQEFgAMADgAAAMwHCwAUAAkAGgA6AAMAUgEBIIADAA4AAADMBwsAFAAJABoADAADACQB AQmAAQAhAAAAQUZFMzE3NTNCNjQyRDAxMTlCMzM0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAAxgYBA5AGACQEAAASAAAA CwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAQKFxmLzWuwEeAHAAAQAAABwAAABT VjogW015c3RhcmFdIEV2aWwgaXMgV2hhdD8AAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbvWvJhqUxfjsEK2EdCbM0RF U1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABMAAABrc3RlcGhhbkBvbmxpbmUubm8A AAMABhC0b0JqAwAHENMBAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABFVklMSVNTT01FVElNRVNOT1RISU5HTU9SRVRI QU5TT01FT05FV0hPRE9FU05UQUdSRUVXSVRIT1VSUE9JTlRPRlZJRVdUSElTSVNQUk9CQUJMWVRI RUJFU1RERUZJTklUSU9OAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAqAIAAKQCAACeBAAATFpGdf94DTH/AAoBDwIVAqgF 6wKDAFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDM3cC5AcTAoB9CoAIzwnZ O/EWDzI1NQKACoENsQtgwG5nMTA0NAr7FFEVC/JjAEAgCotsaTHEODAC0WktMRlQDfCvDNAcYxnc E1BvE9BjBUDMRXYDEQQAIHMDcBHAlQdzbh4gaAuAZyAEYH0WECAfwAORHwICIAfQaBJvCoVkbweQ bid0vwqLHL8afxuPHJ8drGEJws4gA/AfwCSeMzYmvx4VMQhhIHBvC4AiNm9m1iAekAfQLgqFPi1p CoUvH8EEIB7RHgFiAaBsefsgYSBQYgeQBUANsQuAKKCmaQIgLOYobBHAJwQgbnURsC+TH9B0MWAF wGX4eGFtC1AgUCEBIBUHcTopCoVKMcAoEQQgbXW7EXA0wncgUBGwIFBIMlT9NNFlHpEKhTXwLvEg 8DLyHHNhB+AxwDZdQW5k3y6EB0AfAB7CL6JjNNAodWMvogCQdHVhMJIv0XR3NYAJ8C+TVQXwAHA5 YEkYcmFxLOYKhVNvLIsyMASQZTGRYSBxClDjE8A70mkndjMRAYA8YacrsDlQPsFkOgqFSSyAbnkI YDqCBUBLH6AH4EF5JXBnbgeAAjAzIT8RY/8EkAGQC4A3cRGgO+EhMTHRfwdAQrYEACIRJJY2kj6Q Yup1BUB3CGBsOWAv4DqA/wIgAJBAszaDL9AvhEHyBJB/PpAhMDuwRtgvogqFFhBzaUcAdD8KhS0f QT2cVtMEkC+AR28EcC5NhEzv/03gHoMscQWgCHARsD6QKKB9PvJsHrE8dEjkNOELgGTfPpFCYTtC CeAEIGdNUStgfUYkISjvKf8eFQqFFTEAAVbQAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAQAAAEAABzBg3299vNa7AUAA CDBg3299vNa7AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFNWOiAAAAAAiTM= - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD709.382BE960-- ------------------------------ From: - Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:29:53 +-100 Subject: SV: SV: [Mystara] What is Evil? - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD709.3B1DB220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >If you die for your country, it is a LN act. Dead simple. A good personcan think for himself, and doesn't let others think for him. Can somebody please get my point: It isn't good to kill. It doesn't need to be evil either. To shoot hitler in the back would be a LN act, because you thought of your honor, and the benefit of the order you beleived in. You would have klilled the man because he was killing others. That is Judgement. Fair Judgement = LN. Anyone disagree to the last one? A LG warrior would try to injure his opponent, just to disable him for some time, not to destroy him. A LG warrior would have done that even if he new that the opponent would come after him another time. Another day, another fight. And: Evil isn't fun... Evil is Repulsive! Only 14-year old boys with pimples who wanks to underwear advertisements takes pleasure in role-playing evil. I might not be a very good role-player, but I just don't manage to play evil. It just ended with me running off as a CG thief. Again. Therefore, I never play evil anymore. I can play Brutal, but evil is another thing. Evil is not a repulsive thing, we as humans, desire evil as much as we desire good. With out one there is no other. Role-playing and acting are like cousins in this fact, we as players assume fictional roles. Some of the most famous roles are the ones for evil. The villians and badguys make the moives. So to is it with roleplaying. As Star Wars would be nothing without Darth Vadar. So to Mystara with out its Entropy Immortals, Karameikos without Bargle and the Black Baron, and most parties with out that evil player to balance the paladin. To think that only 14-year old boys with pimples are the only ones to enjoy imagining about evil is wrong. Ask any actor and they will tell you the most satisfing parts to play are always the villian. Why the villian, they are the ones to make the action. The give good a goal to destroy. But those actions they take must be put into place. Each villian has goals and motives. Being brutal isn't being evil. Killing isn't being evil. Evil is the sake of suffering and harm for the sake of enjoyment. A man who kills another in self-defense is think LN. A man who kills another for the sake of the common good is thinking LG. A man who kills another for enjoyment is stupid, but the man who carves up the man's wife and roasts his children in front of him, but lets man live to remember it is a good start for evil. Evil is sometimes nothing more than someone who doesn't agree with our point of view. Reginald The MageSlayer I'm sorry, I overdid it a little there..... 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Sat Nov 23 11:27:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA01342; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:09:57 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA00789 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:40:07 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:40:07 -0600 Message-Id: <199611210340.VAA00789@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #291 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 530f16a4161730663f0b99e4a5b63260 O5D+dVOxAMBXkHfLNiF3FEFDv3PhSxFT8liSWOVu0UEGQfsBkAXAVxGRMAhM8joxRubbLYFvUkQK wFQBViIgCsD9ffdNE7EKwCFgU+NvUiEAnQQgRSChQpAogEltZOH3ZoFr8AqFS4RRB4BzQHiAtYJH QgrAZ0QBM9ZCC2D/L+GIIQIgJVR4cwqxRQBUgv9vFSPXSPMDEVwkLLMHQABw/mN5tAqwC2AfoDaA aHwt8P8kNUjTAiBSr1O+eZiQQXoT+ysxCfBqRiAKhQdwPnALgPdxowbgZul3iZF/1CSAZLH/IaIF sTPVKIAD8CuAJDAlIP8DIDHEKPZ4cz5gVtEaQDpB/4pyVTNeU3mSB0A5sFOxL4L7e1Vu0mhBMXso IOCXgkvW/3mqKzF8oi9zciICIHrllJB/N3Ei8yFgIvB2oUWobtFC/4tZeICf5puzQTGfgm0QP2F/ LPFR8CERAjBeM41wbtFF/wDQVBB7VTdBBCChknvDmOfbRQB9xEItcDpBYmZjKnX/LPBZKIbgOgWp 76ZBT+Q4Gf8+YHNRMoFYEA3QBnFxtRGB/0RUraqTozvEIsEDglSyK2LvQhZM5i9RJRItDbEJ8DGR /yExJEQ9krFOToivqUImNOT/S5EEYAOgIvO0NjoyQAC076+1/LCXrQgTwHVUMGRchLc4hlSyI6By fcFVcHA4dv4nU8KukCVjA2A/UWuBITH7EXADEGQWEElRI8YDUTzh/zKBJOFchCYxfIIDoBnQaqL/ K0AWEAeABtAvIiEVIvOEMv9QYXp2aHxQ7SgSRQJps2gi/3hheaMn5T4CVLIltj50hJX/Y/Ep8rdY LTAH0GhtUdCUkdcHQCIwexJNXeFTXDPHDO0dvWMAQCpAJ0RQI3BAUPsg0VnAb1ahH6A2UWnyGdD/ AkBEAW/TULFQsDajeZIFEO9PMtRUB0B4ciEdvxw7198vHM/WjxxZFTEA3GAAAAMAEBABAAAAAwAR EAEAAABAAAcw4A3yybzWuwFAAAgw4A3yybzWuwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABTVjogAAAAAMIM - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD709.3B1DB220-- ------------------------------ From: strawberryJAMM Date: Wed, 20 Nov 96 09:41 PST Subject: [Mystara] Story of the Lost Arm (was Dispel magic) Pasi >P.S: There came to my mind that happened to a player in my game some three >years ago... He, a mighty warrior, and a ex-cleric of Vanya, the war >goddess, had lost his arm in a battle against lizardmen a year or two ago. > [...snip...] This story is wonderful. It sounds like one of those morality stories, like The Monkey's Paw, that shows how getting what you wish for isn't always what you hoped for. Did this /really/ happen to a player of yours? And if so, what was the real story behind what the Mage did to restore the arm and why it started acting possesed? - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- strawberryJAMM (Jenni A. M. Merrifield) jam@wimsey.com || strawberry@jamm.com || http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:32:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MOrient Jody Duncan pontificated: > Not really. I have all the material ready in text format, and I > was about to release it to the design team so we could start work, when it > was suggested that I change the format to one large word 2.0 document. > I've been very pre-occupied with school since then ( i got a little behind > and haven't quite caught up ), however, I will try to get it reformatted > this weekend.... Well, with exam and stuff coming up, I personally wouldn't have time to work on anything until next year, and this is probably is the same for most people in school. So there are probably no hurry to get it out if you don't have time to work on it. - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: Scott Johnson Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:45:33 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MOrient On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Jody Duncan wrote: > > Not really. I have all the material ready in text format, and I > was about to release it to the design team so we could start work, when it > was suggested that I change the format to one large word 2.0 document. > I've been very pre-occupied with school since then ( i got a little behind > and haven't quite caught up ), however, I will try to get it reformatted > this weekend.... > Hrm. To tell the truth, speaking as one who's been working up a possible history of Zyxl based on some interesting facts from my History of China and Japan class (did you know that, during Japan's early days, before becoming a single empire, at least half the clans in power were matriarchal? Or that one of the most legendary rulers of that time was a queen named Himiko (meaning Sun Priestess) who may have been connected to the eventual Imperial line?), I'd sort of prefer text format to Word - it's easier for me to read, and it's system-independent - people with any word processor, on Mac, IBM, Unix, VMS, or whatever, can read it. Maybe, if you really want to do the Word option, make one the default, and let those of us who want another type tell you so you'll send it to us? - -- Scott Johnson | zagyg@io.com | This space intentionally left blank. ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:58:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bruce McGregor and The Sphere of Time At 04.39 20/11/96 +0000, you wrote: >It seems to me that if any immortal were to be interested in supporting the >Society of the Claymore (or whatever it's called), it would be Vanya. That >could also explain why the society lost most of it's power during WotI, when >Vanya was supporting Glantri. Plus, Vanya seems to be the only Time >immortal with much interest at all in Glantri, except perhaps Prince >Harald's patron if he has one. You're absolutely right about one immortal >having many symbols. > One more thing: Vanya's clerics can use the sword. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:58:23 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams At 04.39 20/11/96 +0000, you wrote: >>Ar: ???? >Ooh. I never thought of that. I like Pegataurs for the old Ar, but now? >Maybe Ar could become more prosperous through use of whatever flying >creatures were on the ground when the continent sank, since any means of air >transport must now be in very high demand, so perhaps Pegaturs would still >work. But maybe not! Another problem: do you know some names of cities in non-floating Ar ? >>Haven: Dovir Masterpiece, Aasla Artists ?? >I can't quite decide whether I like artists or not. It was my first idea >for Haven, but I thought it might just be too obvious. But I still like it. >I don't know. I agree with you on Artists being too obvious. >>Greenspur: Greenspur Marlins, Eagret Admirals or Captains ??? >I personally like the Marlins or Admirals. Admirals has the benefit that it >would work just as well in the Hollow World. Does a hardball team have a >team captain? If so, then I really think that the Captains wouldn't work, >although it's a good idea. Herve said that the captain of the Captains is named admiral :-) >>Arogansa: Bluenose Surfers, Dhobig Baywatchers, Arogansa Wizards ??? >I'm still very unsure here. What should the team be like? >>Eadrin: Archport Sharks, Archport Cardinals >I like the sharks, although it won't work as well in the hollow world. It >finally dawned on me why the Cardinals came to mind for Archport: St. Louis >has the Gateway Arch AND the Cardinals! (sorry, i just figured out what i >was thinking) Why is it called Archport, anyway? No idea. >>Randel: Rardish Raiders, Dmiliburg Cavaliers >I prefer the Cavaliers Ok for Cavaliers then. >>Bettellyn: Citadel Quakes >>Theranderol: Errolyn Imperials, >>Vertiloch: Sundsvall Capitals, Sundsvall Maelstroms >I like your ideas a lot! >>Herve said that in the HW there is no more the Alphatian Sea, so the teams >>from Eadrin and Arogansa (Surfers, Sharks and Baywatchers) should be renamed. >>What about: Gliders (or Sailers), Rocs (or Hawks) and Skywatchers > >Well, I'm not quite sure that Baywatchers would have to change (I love this >name, BTW). As for the others, they all sound ok. > >P.S.- I must apologize for correcting the Kingdom of East Portage to the >Kingdom of Hillvale. I just noticed in PWA1 that it says Kingdom of East >Portage. I never noticed that before. Sorry. > No problem. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (Shawn) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:06:20 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Who immortals were (Re: When immortals achieved immortality) >Which brings up a thought- maybe they got rid of Zeus as an Immortal >simply so they wouldn't have to deal with all those darned kids of his >running around Mystara- he was also a notorious wencher. ;) But they didn't get rid of Zeus as an immortal, they just changed his name (something beginning with P) and gave him a Mystaran history. This I think is a much better alternative than keeping all those immortals as such. I mean OK, we have Odin, Thor, Loki and all the rest of them already - that's quite enough. Shawn Stanley I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran s9406058@student.anu.edu.au http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html ------------------------------ From: Robert Kaelin Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:20:53 -0400 Subject: [Mystara] WotI >I am curious about who is doing MChina and what information I could find >on it. >I am also curious about The Wraith of the Immortals Box Set. I never had a >chance to pick it up. Someone else can (and apparently already has) updated you on MOrient. As for WotI it's essentially 2 books one is the Codex of the Immortals, which gives basic info on most of the Immortals that usually concern themselves with Mystara, as well as the rules for creating immortals, attaining immortality, immortal society, and all of the immortals powers/forms. (essentially it's revision of the old Gold Box but with additional material to make it Mystara specific) The second book is the actual "Wrath of the Immortals". It's a little background on the world as it is in 1000AC, some behind the scenes Immortal plotting, a timeline of the major events between 1000AC and 1010AC, 3 adventures that are supposed to allow the PC's to play an important role in all this and a brief "wrap-up" of where everything is (or in Alphatia's case...isn't) at 1010AC. The majority of the second book is the 3 adventures. The first is for levels 1-3, the second for 9-12 (I'm going on memory here, correct me if I'm wrong) and the third is for high levels (going by what I recall of the last adventure I'd say at least 16+ in AD&D or 18+ in OD&D). If you analyze what actually happends in the story the pc's are actually quite useless in the adventures, the story goes on whether or not the characters even exist or not. Plus, trying to get a party from level 1-3 to level 18+ in the span of 10 game years is a little quick IMO, but the adventures can obviously be modified for whatever level you like. The highlights of the boxed set are 1) The comprehensive listing of the Immortals and their general demeoner/cause/appearance/followers. 2) The Timeline between 1000AC and 1010AC which is a great help if you plan on using the PWA's. (Which I highly recommend, at least the first 3.) Plus, if you don't have the Gold box you get 3) Immortal rules. Even if you don't plan to play Immortals, it helps to know exactly what the Immortals can/can't do. Plus, the quests for Immortality are great anyway. >Thank you Anytime. >Reginald the MageSlayer OK, now here's my question. I've had this one for a while. In the first adventure the pc's go to a secluded tower on the Glantri/Darokin border, where they meet a young lightning zombie and free Benekander. After the second adventure, and in a totally unrelated event (at least I think it is), Alphaks hurls a meteor down onto Mystara that strikes exactly (well it stuck a lot of places, but you get the point) where the tower from the first adventure used to be. (I believe WotI actually says it's strike was centered on the tower, but it might just say it's obliterated in the strike. It's been a while since i read that passage.) And in the third adventure the party meets a Vampire who was the mother of the lightning zombie from the first adventure (before she became a vampire and he becmae a lightning zombie, obviously). So, it appears that WotI, at least from the pcs point of view, revolves around a single family who used to live between Glantri and Darokin. No reason for any of these coincidences is ever given and there's not a lot of use to them. (It is possible to distract the Vampire in the third adventure by mentioning you have her "son", which is the only actual use for the thread, but since the pc's get attacked by a hoard of Screaming Fiends and an undead Huge Red Dragon sent personally by Hel immediately after dealing with her anyway it really doesn't help that much.) Now, is there a reason that this family is so intwined in the events of WotI? I know I can easily explain it as just some thread of an idea that stuck with a writer and there is no real explanation for it, but it's been bugging me for quite some time and maybe someone out there can come up with an idea on it. (I personally love the idea about Bruce McGregor questing for Immorality in the sphere of time, it's what gave me hope someone could solve this little dilema for me.) Thanks. - -Bob - ------------------------------------------------ Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence Software Developer 725 Concord Ave. (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138 Kaelin@natural.com ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #291 ***************************** mystara-digest Thursday, 21 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 292 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Patrick Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 01:03:32 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams >> Vertiloch: Sundsvall Capitals, Sundsvall Maelstroms > But most people in Sundsvall now don't remember the Maelstrom, >right? Actually, according to the PWAs, Sundsvall is in ruins from the Maelstrom, which people DO remember. I suppose that this means, though, that Sundsvall isn't too likely to have a hardball team in the Hollow World. The new nation of Zandoria, which Eriadna renamed to something else that I can't remember, should have a hardball team, though. I was curious: Do the rivers on the floating continent of Alphatia simply cascade over the edge to the ground below? This seems to cause all sorts of problems. Alphatia, IIRC, has its own atmosphere, so it would need to retain a lot of moisture. Enormous wandering waterfalls could cause trouble on the surface. The Haunted Marsh seems like it would just slide off! Also, what do the general population of Alphatia think that their normal sea-going ships are for? They are completely useless now! ------------------------------ From: Patrick Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 01:21:21 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams >>>Ar: ???? >>Ooh. I never thought of that. I like Pegataurs for the old Ar, but now? >>Maybe Ar could become more prosperous through use of whatever flying >>creatures were on the ground when the continent sank, since any means of air >>transport must now be in very high demand, so perhaps Pegaturs would still >>work. But maybe not! > >Another problem: do you know some names of cities in non-floating Ar ? PWA1 shows the city of Skyreach on the map of Alphatia, so there must still be people living on the surface there. Skyreach used to be the capital, but most of the city floated. One the West bank of Crystal Lake are three towns: Reer, Ceafem, and Arreghi, with Aildon on the East bank. I would guess that these are surface towns, due to their locations at the edge of the Lake. >>>Greenspur: Greenspur Marlins, Eagret Admirals or Captains ??? >>I personally like the Marlins or Admirals. Admirals has the benefit that it >>would work just as well in the Hollow World. Does a hardball team have a >>team captain? If so, then I really think that the Captains wouldn't work, >>although it's a good idea. > >Herve said that the captain of the Captains is named admiral :-) Oh;) >>>Randel: Rardish Raiders, Dmiliburg Cavaliers >>I prefer the Cavaliers > >Ok for Cavaliers then. Alright! Looks good, we just need to decide on Eadrin and Arogansa, I guess. And there's also Zandoria. ------------------------------ From: Melik Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:37:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MOrient At 09:34 AM 11/20/96 EST, Jody wrote: >Melik writes: >> >> I'm wondering what is happening with MOrient... does anyone know? I wrote >> to Joe Duncan quite some time ago because I had promised to do some work for >> it. Is there someone else I could talk to perhaps? > > Not really. I have all the material ready in text format, and I >was about to release it to the design team so we could start work, when it >was suggested that I change the format to one large word 2.0 document. >I've been very pre-occupied with school since then ( i got a little behind >and haven't quite caught up ), however, I will try to get it reformatted >this weekend.... > Oh, I see. That gets annoying getting having to be preocuppied with school sometimes doesn't it. Jody (or do you like to be called Joe (Someone else called you Joe and I thought that was your name.)) mentioned keeping track of all the people who would do stuff, and I said I would do a thing or two. Soon afterwards, I left the list when I was forced to move, and now I'm not sure if I'm on the design team or not, and what it is exactly... >Hrm. To tell the truth, speaking as one who's been working up a possible >history of Zyxl based on some interesting facts from my History of China >and Japan class (did you know that, during Japan's early days, before >becoming a single empire, at least half the clans in power were >matriarchal? Or that one of the most legendary rulers of that time was a >queen named Himiko (meaning Sun Priestess) who may have been connected to >the eventual Imperial line?), I'd sort of prefer text format to Word - >it's easier for me to read, and it's system-independent - people with any >word processor, on Mac, IBM, Unix, VMS, or whatever, can read it. Maybe, >if you really want to do the Word option, make one the default, and let >those of us who want another type tell you so you'll send it to us? > I also hope that a text version is kept as it is very standars, and I don't have a decent word processor, so if I'm going to make that adventure for MOrient, I'll have to read it in text. (or MS Works 2.0, but it's not worth reformatting it to that just for me). David Melik Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net P P l u justice = time ---------------- centralization^2 /amount of common people that prevent and stop the greedy\ P = | -------------------------------------------------------- | l \ amount of common people that obey like sheep / /amount of people with power that restrain their greed\ P = | ----------------------------------------------------- | u \ amount of people with power that exploit others / This is congruent to equations dealing with force, such as Newton's law of universal gravitation: m m Thus, physics proves that it is scientific law 1 2 that anarchy (decentralization, *not* crime & F = G ------- chaos) is good (but must be maintained). Power d^2 to the people! ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:02:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] WotI > After the second adventure, and in a totally unrelated event (at least I > think it is), Alphaks hurls a meteor down onto Mystara that strikes exactly > (well it stuck a lot of places, but you get the point) where the tower from > the first adventure used to be. (I believe WotI actually says it's strike > was centered on the tower, but it might just say it's obliterated in the > strike. It's been a while since i read that passage.) > > And in the third adventure the party meets a Vampire who was the mother of > the lightning zombie from the first adventure (before she became a vampire > and he becmae a lightning zombie, obviously). So, it appears that WotI, at > least from the pcs point of view, revolves around a single family who used > to live between Glantri and Darokin. No reason for any of these > coincidences is ever given and there's not a lot of use to them. (It is > possible to distract the Vampire in the third adventure by mentioning you > have her "son", which is the only actual use for the thread, but since the > pc's get attacked by a hoard of Screaming Fiends and an undead Huge Red > Dragon sent personally by Hel immediately after dealing with her anyway it > really doesn't help that much.) > > Now, is there a reason that this family is so intwined in the events of > WotI? I know I can easily explain it as just some thread of an idea that > stuck with a writer and there is no real explanation for it, but it's been > bugging me for quite some time and maybe someone out there can come up with > an idea on it. (I personally love the idea about Bruce McGregor questing > for Immorality in the sphere of time, it's what gave me hope someone could > solve this little dilema for me.) > Perhaps it is some interesting interconnection with Blackmoor. The Corran's (the family) go to establish a new Barony. Lo and Behold there is already a keep there. Great all we need now is to run off the local monsters. No, good. The monsters win Lillian is carried off by a vampire and every one dies to be resurrected as Lightning Zombies. But there is this shield artifact left over from the treasures of some notorious dragonslayer (don't we meet one in adventure #3?) who built the tower in the first place. The artifact just happens to be the F.S.S. Beagle's communicator, located not far from the engines (under Glantri City) and the Comeback Inn (in the Broken Lands). I suppose the best question is did the Dragon Slayer originally have the shield (say from his ancestors or something) or did he steal it from a dragon? I wonder what the Radiance does to a Dragon? Adventure #2 The meteor destroys the tower conveniently removing all traces of the origins of Lightning Zombies, the tower, the shield, etc. This could be for a few reasons 1. It's plot convenient, the DM removes all the possibilities of hunting for more evidence, returning to the site, strange X-files like investigations, and evidence of Blackmoor, etc. all with one fell swoop. 2. There is something there, perhaps evidence as to where the shield came from, maybe info on the Dragon Slayer's ancestors, or interesting facts about the dragon he got it from, perhaps the entropic Immortals (or all the Immortals) have something to hide. Adventure #3 we find that Lillian Corran is now a Nosferatu, created by a Nosferatu prince of Boldavia before the Great School of Magic was built over the site a some strange artifact Ettienne d'Ambreville built. Supposedly Etienne killed this prince, but Alphaks supposedly made Morphail "immortal" so perhaps he somehow lived? Or am I off with the timing here? We also discover that Balthac, a famous dragon slayer who built a keep in Darokin (sounds familiar, part 1 anybody?) really existed and is now a Titan. So we have found parts of the history of 1. The Corran's 2. Prince Morphail? 3. Etienne d'Ambreville 4. Balthac and allusions to the history of the Mirror Shield as well as noting that there is an interesting coincedence in the location of a number of Blackmoor related items. That's an awful lot from 3 short plots. And very well intertwined. Anybody care to draw more conclusions? ------------------------------ From: Reg Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:09:03 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mystara] WotI >OK, now here's my question. I've had this one for a while. > >Now, is there a reason that this family is so intwined in the events of >WotI? I know I can easily explain it as just some thread of an idea that >stuck with a writer and there is no real explanation for it, but it's been >bugging me for quite some time and maybe someone out there can come up with >an idea on it. (I personally love the idea about Bruce McGregor questing >for Immorality in the sphere of time, it's what gave me hope someone could >solve this little dilema for me.) Ever read The Incarnations of Immortality Series by Piers Anthoney. It deals with a family that is pivotal in a bet between Satan and the Angel Micheal (I think, I'm going from memory). Each one has to get the family members to do certain events to win the bet. Maybe this family was part of a similiar bet. An enterprising DM could come up with tons of ideas from that one plot line. Thanks for the Info. Reginald the MageSlayer May God stand between you and danger in the dark places you must walk. ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:16:04 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Story of the Lost Arm (was Dispel magic) StrawberryJAMM wrote: > This story is wonderful. It sounds like one of those morality stories, like > The Monkey's Paw, that shows how getting what you wish for isn't always what > you hoped for. Did this /really/ happen to a player of yours? And if so, > what was the real story behind what the Mage did to restore the arm and > why it started acting possesed? It did happen. Just like I told, over more than couple of gamingsession. The mage was as the story indicates a necromancer, though not an evil one. Rather a curious scientist ( chaotic anyway) who had found out, that even the mighty patriarchs seem to have problems with severed arms and legs. So he created a method to animate a partial body, say an arm, and to make it to take commands 'psionicly' from the wielder, in effect acting as a real arm. The method was a partial success. He could 'cure' any severed limb, or otherwise damaged one (by cutting it loose, and putting it back) but the 'intelligence' that connected the limb to the wielder caused an problem. The intelligent seemed to have a kind of survival instict. After facing some danger to its excistence the arm would little by little be more and more scared for its 'life'. And that caused the deathblows and much more problem. The arm felt more secure when the enemy was killed, or when somebody else carried the lanter etc etc... Sounds weird? well, it was a strange arm... The other clerics turning undead effecting the arm was caused offcourse for the fact that the arm was truly undead. A dead bodypart animated to 'life' and consisting a like of intelligence and self. One could describe it as a partial zombie or skeleton. Had Sigbrand (the ex-cleric) not fled, From ???@??? Sat Nov 23 11:27:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id FAA10339; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 05:36:00 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA09040 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:07:25 -0600 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:07:25 -0600 Message-Id: <199611211807.MAA09040@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #292 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 2f9048bbd2475890f0da1d96b2f1eb21 the arm would have been destroyed right there and then. I pardon that I cant remember all the excact detail of the arms functions, it was a couple of years ago anyway, and i dont have my notes here. But i think you should have a quite clear picture of it now... be free to use the idea. And remember too, it does not have to be an human limb used to the method. You could use say gorillas (like in the conan comic I think I used as a spark to the idea, though not knowingly) or some other handed creature (orc, troll (iiks!). Also the limbs looks would be determined by the shape it was during the connection. If you used a hand that was ten years in grave, you would have a skeletal hand. If it was o new hand ok. The strength would be anyway either the wielders original or a bit higher... Also should the limb be somehow damaged, it does not heal... without help. It does not age though have fun! Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: "Ryan J. Law" Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:56:32 -0800 Subject: [Mystara] Anyone know of any WotI updates to AD&D 2nd eddit? I was just wondering, since I personally loved the idea of players being able to become Immortals in the D&D game, then when I swithed over to AD&D 2nd Eddition I found no equivilant rules for player becoming Powers. I was kinda hoping that PlaneScape would have that type of information but nope! So what I was wondering does anyone know of any TSR products that I missed (Dream: DMs Option - Powers and Deities), or individual prouction, or even something close enough to AD&D that I could get for play? - -Ryan J Law ------------------------------ From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:45:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Terari's Quest for Immortality Is there any info out there on terari and his quest i know hes questing in the sphere of thought but i dont know much more like who his patron is or how close he is to completing his quest etc etc etc ------------------------------ From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:42:04 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bruce McGregor and The Sphere of Time << Plus, Vanya seems to be the only Time immortal with much interest at all in Glantri, except perhaps Prince Harald's patron if he has one. You're absolutely right about one immortal having many symbols. >> i cant remember what is vanyas intrest in glantri? also why may harald have a patron? is he questing for immortality too? ------------------------------ From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:33:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] WotI >I suppose the best question is did the Dragon Slayer originally have the >shield (say from his ancestors or something) or did he steal it from a >dragon? I wonder what the Radiance does to a Dragon? >2. There is something there, perhaps evidence as to where the shield came >from, maybe info on the Dragon Slayer's ancestors, or interesting facts >about the dragon he got it from, perhaps the entropic Immortals (or all >the Immortals) have something to hide. the disk was created in 4000bc when the beagle imploded at that time Benekander was trapped in it unconsious several centuries late a red dragon was flying over the area it saw the shining disk and grabbed it from there it was passed from one dragon horde to another thats when Balthac came in he took out whichever dragon had it he also had no idea what it was and ended up dying at the hands of Calor the disk was then left in the keep until the PCs find it ------------------------------ From: Enrique Pacheco Revuelta Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:03:17 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Anyone know of any WotI updates to AD&D 2nd eddit? If you like the way that D&D rules worked for inmortsatlity keep them. My group has been playin for more than 5 years. We started playing D&D and gradually became more sofiisticated. However, much of the AD&D rules are to specific for us. For example, we use de standard d&D chart for abilities but use AD&D weapon specialization (since weapon mastery is more of a fuss). What is important is to pick rules that everyone agrees are the more playable (not advantegeous nor "liked") and stick to them. then when a change need to be done to the rule it is easy to adopt. ------------------------------ From: Reg Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:14:53 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Anyone know of any WotI updates to AD&D 2nd eddit? At 11:56 PM 11/20/96 -0800, you wrote: >I was just wondering, since I personally loved the idea of >players being able to become Immortals in the D&D game, then when I >swithed over to AD&D 2nd Eddition I found no equivilant rules for player >becoming Powers. I was kinda hoping that PlaneScape would have that type >of information but nope! > So what I was wondering does anyone know of any TSR products >that I missed (Dream: DMs Option - Powers and Deities), or individual >prouction, or even something close enough to AD&D that I could get for >play? > >-Ryan J Law Try WotWC's product, Primal Order. It has a very well thought out system for creating deities and having them rise to power. With minimal work it could quite well for Mystara. Reinald the MageSlayer May God stand between you and darkness in all the empty places you must walk. ------------------------------ From: Robert Kaelin Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:00:59 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] WotI >Adventure #3 >we find that Lillian Corran is now a Nosferatu, created by a Nosferatu >prince of Boldavia before the Great School of Magic was built over the >site a some >strange artifact Ettienne d'Ambreville built. Supposedly Etienne killed >this prince, but Alphaks supposedly made Morphail "immortal" so perhaps he >somehow lived? Or am I off with the timing here? I don't recall Lillian's progenitor being Morphail. I believe her master was slain when he tried to attack Ettienne to get the secrets of the Radience. (Which I have to say must have been vaguely humorous to watch, "Oh, you drained my lifeforce. I'll just have to make another body then..."*meteor swarm*.) >We also discover that Balthac, a famous dragon slayer who built a keep in >Darokin (sounds familiar, part 1 anybody?) really existed and is now a >Titan. I never thought that Balthac could be the owner of the keep from the first adventure. So, Lillian used to live in a tower owned by a legendary champion that 150 years later she's pretending to worship at the behest of Hel? Now *that's* an interconnected plot. :-) Although it can probably explain why Hel chose Belthac to falsely worship. If Belthac left the shield there then there's no telling what other records, diaries or what not Lillian could have read when she was living there. (I believe her description says she was not really happy in her mortal life, living in a tower in the middle of nowhere. She must have been bored enough to read anything she found quite a few times. Maybe THAT'S why Alphaks destroyed the tower, maybe to cover up all traces of the REAL Balthac that might be used against the false following. Perhaps less sublte "accidents" took place in other locations owned by other heroes who Hel was impersonating but for one reason or another asked Alphaks to take care of the Corran's former home. She was kinda busy as top hierarch of Entropy during the greatest war to hit Mystara in a thousand years or so. And, of course, Alphaks does tend to have a problem with moderation.) >Anybody care to draw more conclusions? Not until my head stops hurting from this one. :-) - -Bob - ------------------------------------------------ Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence Software Developer 725 Concord Ave. (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138 Kaelin@natural.com ------------------------------ From: Robert Kaelin Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:14:21 -0400 Subject: [Mystara] Anyone know of any WotI updates to AD&D 2nd eddit? >I was just wondering, since I personally loved the idea of >players being able to become Immortals in the D&D game, then when I >swithed over to AD&D 2nd Eddition I found no equivilant rules for player >becoming Powers. I was kinda hoping that PlaneScape would have that type >of information but nope! > So what I was wondering does anyone know of any TSR products >that I missed (Dream: DMs Option - Powers and Deities), or individual >prouction, or even something close enough to AD&D that I could get for >play? The DM's Option book "High Level Campaigns" has AD&D rules for pc's becoming demi-powers, on the last page. If you loved the OD&D rules for gaining immortality then you're also in luck because they're basically identical. They don't go into great detail on the exact quests, but they're obviously refering to them (i.e. they talk about a trial, testimonial, different paths, offering a present to your proposed sponsor power etc.) It's not everything you need on that one page, but it's everything you need to convert the existing OD&D paths to AD&D quite easily. High level campaigns also has a few basic rules scattered throughout it on the actual playing mechanics of powers as well. (For example, Demi-Powers have all sv. at 3, Lesser Powers at 2, Intermidiate Powers at 1, and Greater Powers always make their saves. For the curious it also adds the rule that all mortals fail saves on rols of 1,2 or 3 even if their real or adjusted sv. number is better.) I'm also fond of pointing out that at least 4 FR characters have attained some type of "Powerdom" or "Immortality" in novels recently (well somewhat recently). It appears whatever the AD&D stigma of "you can't play immortals" was it's not as strong as it once was. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a PlaneScape supplement in the works out there somewhere to actually play powers, if they're willing to detail the Blood War and let te players dramatically alter it and tell us everything about the Lady of Pain then there's not a lot they won't get to eventually. Hope this helps, - -Bob p.s. I'll check the planescape supplement "On Hallowed Ground" too when i get home. I got it a week or so ago and haven't gotten around to reading it yet. It's suppoed to have AD&D explanations of things like where souls exactly go and what becomes of them when they die... Maybe it gives hints into the creation of Powers, if not outright suggestions p.p.s. If you want an AD&D look at Immortals, try the book Prince of Lies. It's told from the points of view of Cyric and Mystara from FR, among other powers. It does some justice to the ideas of avatars, superior powers (AO, Old One or just a really pumped Power?), listening to the prayers of one's followers, creating artifacts, what Powers actually "do" all day and how powers view the world. It's one of the few AD&D novels I would recommend with a straight face. (I've only played an Immortal campaign once seriously as a player and my DM made this required reading for it, I think it was a good idea.) - ------------------------------------------------ Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence Software Developer 725 Concord Ave. (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138 Kaelin@natural.com ------------------------------ From: Jody Duncan Date: Thu, 21 Nov 96 10:33:15 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] MOrient Melik writes: > > >and haven't quite caught up ), however, I will try to get it reformatted > >this weekend.... > > > Oh, I see. That gets annoying getting having to be preocuppied with school > sometimes doesn't it. Jody (or do you like to be called Joe (Someone else > called you Joe and I thought that was your name.)) mentioned keeping track > of all the people who would do stuff, and I said I would do a thing or two. > Soon afterwards, I left the list when I was forced to move, and now I'm not > sure if I'm on the design team or not, and what it is exactly... You were on th team, I'll add you're name and new address to it if you aren't on it anymore. Basically, I'm just holding all the info and names and distributing it to all the people on the team. > >word processor, on Mac, IBM, Unix, VMS, or whatever, can read it. Maybe, > >if you really want to do the Word option, make one the default, and let > >those of us who want another type tell you so you'll send it to us? > > I also hope that a text version is kept as it is very standars, and I don't > have a decent word processor, so if I'm going to make that adventure for > MOrient, I'll have to read it in text. (or MS Works 2.0, but it's not worth > reformatting it to that just for me). Well, I am keeping a text version of course, but I've made an MS-Word 2.0 ver. for distribution tell me which one you would like... - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive!" Carleton U. Computer Science, Software Email addresses: jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca cq793@freenet.carleton.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #292 ***************************** mystara-digest Friday, 22 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 293 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:47:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Anyone know of any WotI updates to AD&D 2nd eddit? > I was just wondering, since I personally loved the idea of > players being able to become Immortals in the D&D game, then when I > swithed over to AD&D 2nd Eddition I found no equivilant rules for player > becoming Powers. I was kinda hoping that PlaneScape would have that type > of information but nope! > So what I was wondering does anyone know of any TSR products > that I missed (Dream: DMs Option - Powers and Deities), or individual > prouction, or even something close enough to AD&D that I could get for > play? I believe that you might find rules for "divine ascension" in the High-Level campaigns book. As near as I can tell, they're ripped bodily from the Rules Cyclopedia, except all references to Spheres are removed. To save myself the $20 the book costs, I simply use the WotI rules 'as is'. :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Victor Caminha Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:18:20 -0200 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Terari's Quest for Immortality At 08:45 21/11/96 -0500, you wrote: >Is there any info out there on terari and his quest >i know hes questing in the sphere of thought >but i dont know much more >like who his patron is >or how close he is to completing his quest etc etc etc > Well dont know much, but if i could give a blind shoot, perhaps the immortals most qualified would be 1)SSu-Ma 2)Korotiku 3)Noumena I doubt Old Tylion is close to acchieving sucess after Alphatia sinking, perhaps he (temporarily?) gave up or maybe he is indeed adcvancing ,teaching in Karameikos, following his path of Schoarship and Magical Learning, the Goals ogf Ssu-Ma. Ps: Old Tylion may be far from his goal, but whatabout Mylertendal and her setback on the Disasters of Aasla and Alphatia? "Receive the bounty of your hero's deed Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead Eternally running from a priestly bead Unable to bear the Orb in your head You'll walk in the darkness so alluring Without Hope to cleanse your sin Away from the joy of the living Forever to serve your Twin" ------------------------------ From: "Oarim" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:29:14 CDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithian Immortals - -> >> I was just going through GAZ4: Ierendi, when I noticed mention of a - -> >> Nithian Immortal I don't recall seeing anywhere else - Orisis (not - -> >> Osiris), a hawk-headed, good Immortal. Anybody know anything about him, - -> >> besides what's in GAZ4? - -> > - -> > - -> >To the best of my knowledge, there is no other mention of Orisis anywhere - -> else. The Kingdom of Nithia supplement talks about Nithian Immortals but does not - -> mention this one. There is an Immortal named Isiris, however. This is really Valerias - -> and she serves her usual function as a patron of love. She is not said to be hawk-headed - -> though. The Immortal, Horon (really Ixion) is said to sometimes appear as a hawk. - -> Perhaps the worship of "Orisis" somehow came about by the amalgamation of the faiths of - -> Horon and Isiris? Anybody else have any information? Or perhaps it is a as-yet-undetailed Immortal? Akin to "Bast"? Perhaps they have both been busy elsewhere in the Multiverse for quite a while (or somehow caught up in Immortal politics and banished elsewhere...only recently managing to return), and now they have come back. That sounds more plausible for Bast, who was apparently worshipped centuries ago, then her following faded. Anyone want to detail these two? - -Oarim ------------------------------ From: "Oarim" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:44:05 CDT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams - -> >I was curious: Do the riverson the floating continent of Alphatia simply cascade over the edge to the - -> >ground below? This seems to cause all sorts of problems. Alphatia, IIRC, - -> >has its own atmosphere, so it would need to retain a lot of moisture. - -> >Enormous wandering waterfalls could cause trouble on the surface. The - -> >Haunted Marsh seems like it would just slide off! I think that the rivers would plunge downwards until they became mist, then be drawn back upwards into the Alphatian "sky" where they would become clouds and rain, etc, etc... - ->Also, what do the general population of Alphatia think that their normal sea-going ships are for? - -> >They are completely useless now! Perhaps the Immortals, after placing them within the Hollow World, enchanted them to be Skyships so as to keep the illusion up? Or the population thinks that they are merely grounded Skyships. - -Oarim ------------------------------ From: Patrick Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:57:21 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Terari's Quest for Immortality >I doubt Old Tylion is close to acchieving sucess after Alphatia sinking, >perhaps he (temporarily?) gave up or maybe he is indeed adcvancing ,teaching >in Karameikos, following his path of Schoarship and Magical Learning, the >Goals ogf Ssu-Ma. Certainly He was somewhat set back, but he left on his own, IIRC, and so he was able to bring with him anything that he wanted. Back in Alphatia, he didn't seem to be much of an Epic Hero, so perhaps he will simply be a Hero of Karameikos. Or maybe he will help work to establish a true New Alphatian Empire that could possibly be even more powerful than the original. >Ps: Old Tylion may be far from his goal, but whatabout Mylertendal and her >setback on the Disasters of Aasla and Alphatia? Sucks to be her, eh? Actually, though, the entire Kingdom of Haven has been somewhat beautified, and PWA1 says that Dovir is increasingly becoming an artistic city, so it probably wasn't too huge a setback. ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:25:44 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams At 01.21 21/11/96 +0000, you wrote: >>Another problem: do you know some names of cities in non-floating Ar ? >PWA1 shows the city of Skyreach on the map of Alphatia, so there must still >be people living on the surface there. Skyreach used to be the capital, but >most of the city floated. One the West bank of Crystal Lake are three >towns: Reer, Ceafem, and Arreghi, with Aildon on the East bank. I would >guess that these are surface towns, due to their locations at the edge of >the Lake. Mmmh... maybe you're right. Skyreach Peagaturs then ? >>>>Randel: Rardish Raiders, Dmiliburg Cavaliers >>>I prefer the Cavaliers >> >>Ok for Cavaliers then. >Alright! Rardish Cavaliers or somewhere-else Cavaliers ? >Looks good, we just need to decide on Eadrin and Arogansa, I guess. And >there's also Zandoria. > About Zandoria (recently renamed Jafilia IIRC) this is an excerpt from a mail Herve sent me a few days ago: > But do they know in the HW that outside there's a maelstrom where Alphatia > used to be ? Maybe that team will be created in the near future. They could learn it after Haldemar's return to the HW (with Zandor), but only Empress Eriadna knows it. However, there is no Sundsvall anymore anyway. One can imagine, however, that Eriadna sponsors a team in Jafilia, and that she gaves it the name Sundsvall Maelstrom (but doesn't give out the reasons behind this name). ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:55:50 -0200 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatian sea (was Hardball teams) On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Patrick wrote: > Actually, according to the PWAs, Sundsvall is in ruins from the Maelstrom, > which people DO remember. I suppose that this means, though, that Sundsvall > isn't too likely to have a hardball team in the Hollow World. The new > nation of Zandoria, which Eriadna renamed to something else that I can't > remember, should have a hardball team, though. I was curious: Do the rivers > on the floating continent of Alphatia simply cascade over the edge to the > ground below? This seems to cause all sorts of problems. Alphatia, IIRC, > has its own atmosphere, so it would need to retain a lot of moisture. > Enormous wandering waterfalls could cause trouble on the surface. The > Haunted Marsh seems like it would just slide off! Also, what do the general > population of Alphatia think that their normal sea-going ships are for? > They are completely useless now! I have never liked this solution so I am going to use something different in my campaign, if and when it comes to that. You can have a floating continent that is not just a piece of land perpetually bathed by the red sun, but a small globe. Take Alphatia, bend it and surround with enough water. Like a small planet. You can have it spinning if you like it and even have days and nights. All sea ports are very dependent on the existence of the sea and I would prefer them to have a sea. Or the Immortals would have to enchant every sea vessel to fly. Andre Martins ------------------------------ From: Matthew Levy Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:37:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] WotI On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, StarHawk wrote: > > So we have found parts of the history of > 1. The Corran's > 2. Prince Morphail? > 3. Etienne d'Ambreville > 4. Balthac > > and allusions to the history of the Mirror Shield > > as well as noting that there is an interesting coincedence in the location > of a number of Blackmoor related items. > > That's an awful lot from 3 short plots. And very well intertwined. > Anybody care to draw more conclusions? > > > sure. Maybe Alphaks deliberately threw the meteor at Corran Keep (he does tend to bend those nonintervention guidelines a tad, doesn't he?) in order to obliterate further evidence that might have helped the PC's to complete their quest or even to avert the war! (or maybe he just thinks that: Alphaks is none too swift with matters of great complexity). Then again, it is possible that Alphaks' meteor is really more related to Lillian Corran (who is tied to Morphail, who serves Alphaks) than to the PC's ... it may have nothing to do with the WotI in any direct way. Also, what if Morphail knows about the mirror and is looking for the PC's on Alphaks' behalf? just some thoughts. m@2 ------------------------------ From: Kaviyd@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:33:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] MOrient In a message dated 96-11-20 13:00:28 EST, (Jody Duncan) writes: << Not really. I have all the material ready in text format, and I was about to release it to the design team so we could start work, when it was suggested that I change the format to one large word 2.0 document. I've been very pre-occupied with school since then ( i got a little behind and haven't quite caught up ), however, I will try to get it reformatted this weekend.... >> I don't mean to disparage the hard work that you are planning to put into this document, but some of us would actually prefer plain ASCII format. Is the ASCII form available anywhere? ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:16:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] WotI On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Robert Kaelin wrote: > > >Adventure #3 > >we find that Lillian Corran is now a Nosferatu, created by a Nosferatu > >prince of Boldavia before the Great School of Magic was built over the > >site a some > >strange artifact Ettienne d'Ambreville built. Supposedly Etienne killed > >this prince, but Alphaks supposedly made Morphail "immortal" so perhaps he > >somehow lived? Or am I off with the timing here? > > I don't recall Lillian's progenitor being Morphail. I believe her master > was slain when he tried to attack Ettienne to get the secrets of the > Radience. (Which I have to say must have been vaguely humorous to watch, > "Oh, you drained my lifeforce. I'll just have to make another body > then..."*meteor swarm*.) Lillian's progenitor MUST be Morphail. He's been prince of Boldavia and a Nosferatu since 720. The d'Ambrevilles didn't even arrive on Mystara till 728. He's the only Prince of Boldavia Etienne has ever known. I'd assume Ettienne only appeared to kill Morphail in the duel, but some side effect of Alphak's Nosferatu curse caused him to survive, or perhaps he just had another coffin somewhere. Just be cause he was killed doesn't mean his soul was released. ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:25:57 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Terari's Quest for Immortality On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Victor Caminha wrote: > At 08:45 21/11/96 -0500, you wrote: > >Is there any info out there on terari and his quest > >i know hes questing in the sphere of thought > >but i dont know much more > >like who his patron is > >or how close he is to completing his quest etc etc etc > > I doubt Old Tylion is close to acchieving sucess after Alphatia sinking, > perhaps he (temporarily?) gave up or maybe he is indeed adcvancing ,teaching > in Karameikos, following his path of Schoarship and Magical Learning, the > Goals ogf Ssu-Ma. Also, note that it mentions that Tylion is plenty content to take his time to reach Immortality, as he cares deeply for his relatives, and has no wish to leave them any time soon. Of course, now that at least one of his closest relatives (his daughter), is missing, he may change his mind. Actually, given that he recently found out about her existence in the Hollow World, he may decide that attaining Immortality ASAP would be a great way for him to get close to her once again, not to mention for him to help Alphatia recover. Also, could the creation of the Karameikan School of Magic be part of his quest for Immortality? (Is there something there about having to have a successor? I don't recall the qualifications offhand...) ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:39:30 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Fairly Complete Glantri Timeline Well, I recieved a number of requests for this, so here it is; everything (to my knowledge) ever published on Glantri timeline dates. Here are a couple of notes: c.- My circa dates, for the large part, tend to mean +/- 5 years from the given date. This is just sort of arbitrary on my part. References: HW=Hollow World Boxed Set; GAZ#=self explanatory; CoM=Champions of Mystara Boxed Set; DoM=Dragonlord of Mystara; DkoM=Dragonking of Mystara; G:KoM=Glantri: Kingdom of Magic Boxed Set; JA=Joshuan's Almanac; PWA(year)=self explanatory; PC#=Creature Crucible # 3500 BC: 4 Southern elf clans (Celebryl, Felistyr, Porador, and Gelbalf), move to Glantri. They war and trade with Blackmoor.(GAZ13) 3000 BC: Great Rain of Fire; Blackmoor is obliterated. Survivors of the elven colony in Blackmoor flee into the newly-formed Broken Lands and below the surface. Temporary ice-age in Glantri.(GAZ13) 2200 BC: Some elves break off from Ilsundal's migration and eventually find their way to the frozen valleys of Glantri, where they settle. A few survivors from the second migration from Vulcania also reach Glantri and settle among their cousins.(HW) Among these migrants are the Truedyl clan (ie, the future Gentle Folk); another clan will eventually become the Icevale elves; Still more will become the Schattenalfen.(HW, by extrapolation) 1700 BC: Local cataclysm. The elves disappear and the Broken Lands become unstable.(GAZ3) 800 BC: The ice finally recedes to the north of Glantri.(HW) c.528BC: A few Sheyallia elves, fleeing the Serpent Peninsula and the Plain of Fire, settle in Glantri.(CoM) 395 AC: The Flaems colonize the lands; the Radiance is discovered in Glantri.(GAZ3) Glantri is ruled by a Council of Dukes and Wizards; Seven Duchies under the jurisdiction of an Archduchy.(DoM) 400 AC: The Flaems discover that other, enemy Alphatians are in possession of the mighty Alphatian Empire to the east.(HW) 450 AC: The city of Braejr is built.(GAZ3) 490 AC: Dragonlord of Mystara. 495 AC: Dragonking of Mystara; Glantri is now a kingdom.(DkoM) 525 AC: Joint expedition with Darokin into Broken Lands; Chief Sitting Drool is captured.(GAZ10) 526 AC: Peace treaty between Sitting Drool's hordes and Glantri/Darokin. (GAZ10) 595 AC: Ethengar raiders oppose the Flaemish in numerous skirmishes; the Khan's horsemen are driven out.(GAZ3) 645 AC: Ethengar attempts a major invasion but is defeated at Skullhorn Pass.(GAZ3) 662 AC: The Flaemish attempt to invade Ethengar, but the expeditionary force is utterly massacred in the steppes.(GAZ3) c.700AC: Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany is born.(JA) 700 AC: The Erewan faction of the Erendyl clan leaves Alfheim for Glantri.(GAZ5) 720 AC: Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany is cursed by Alphaks and becomes a nosferatu.(GAZ3) 728 AC: The d'Ambrevilles and their vassals arrive from Old Averoigne, establishing a French-like culture in the wooded valleys of northwestern Glantri.(PC4) Rumors of good lands in western Glantri lure the disgruntled Thyatian survivors of destroyed Alaysiyan colonies. They decide to pioneer there. (DotE) 730 AC: Settlers come to Glantri; frictions between Flaems and settlers. (GAZ3) Settlers to Glantri include fair elves, and humans from Traladara and Thyatian colonies in Ylaruam.(HW) 743 AC: The d'Ambrevilles bring more settlers from their mysterious homeworld. House Crownguard also uses this magical passage to Glantri.(G:KoM) 784 AC: A Thyatian settler kills a Flaemish lord; war is declared.(GAZ3) 785 AC: Battle of Braejr; settlers are driven south of the Vesubia.(GAZ3) 786 AC: Arrival of Halzunthram.(GAZ3) 788 AC: The Flaemish are defeated at the Battle of Braastar; Halzunthram captures the council; Glantri becomes an Alphatian dominion; elves become independent; the Flaemish revolt.(GAZ3) The Treaty of 788 gives the south to the elves, the north to the Flaems, and the west to other settlers.(GAZ3) ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:10:22 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Fairly Complete Glantri, 960AC+ This should be the last of them, here... :) 961 AC: Kol XIV is born.(PWA1012) 962 AC: Innocenti di Malapietra is born.(PWA1012) 968 AC: Urmahid Krinagar is born.(JA) 970 AC: Marchioness Mariana Terlagand dies; Guildmaster of Spokesmen, Meister Rannigar Budulug and his accomplice, Narda Shelyn, conceal this fact from the public.(GAZ3) c.970AC: Thar imprisons Baroness Myra McDuff, has a child by her (Angus McDuff/McClintock), and slays her. Forces from Ft. Nordling drive him and his army back into the mountains. Myra becomes a ghost and perpetuates the belief that she still lives.(GAZ3, GAZ10) c.975AC: Igor Gorevitch-Woszlany flees Boldavia, having betrayed a number of Prince Morphail's vampire pawns to a pair of paladin vampire-hunters; he adopts the cover Erik Helsing.(PC2) 979 AC: The d'Ambrevilles and their estate return to New Averoigne. Chateau d'Ambreville is destroyed, and the House of Sylaire erected in its place. Sire Malachie du Marais and Dame Genevieve de Sephora enter Glantri from Old Averoigne. An epidemic of wolf lycanthropy begins.(PC4) 980 AC: Arbana Jerbat come to Glantri to live out her old age; in reality, she is an Alphatian spy sent to keep an eye on Prince Aendyr.(GAZ3) (I seem to be missing a page here... nerts... well, I'll contine with the rest of what I've got, but I think I accidentally skipped about ten years here...) 999 AC: Dona Maria de Belcadiz marries Don Carlo, constable of New Alvar.(JA) 1003 AC: Bramyra is enfoeffed; Urmahid Krinagar becomes the first Prince of Bramyra.(PC4) 1004 AC: Sablestone is enfoeffed; Harald of Haaskinz becomes the first Prince of Sablestone.(PC4) 1005 AC: Baron Malachie du Marais marries Vicomtesse Diane de Moriamis; soon after, the Viscounty is enfoeffed. Malachie du Marais becomes the first Prince of Morlay-Malinbois.(PC4, G:KoM) 1010 AC: The Duchy of Fenswick is enfoeffed; Dolores of Hillsbury becomes the first Princess of Fenswick.(PWA1010) 1011 AC: South Monsterland is enfoeffed; Kol XIV becomes the first Prince of New Kolland.(PWA1011) Everything else is pretty well documented. Other than that, my timeline consists of a bunch of speculation on birthdates, dates nobles recieved their dominions, as well as some other stuff that only pertains to another project I'm working on. I'll try and find that other sheet of paper I'm missing, which has 980-999 dates in it. :) ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:55:39 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Fairly Complete Glantri, 800AC+ Here's the next part of that timeline, picking up from AC 800... c.800AC: Fernando de Casanegra is born.(GAZ3) 802 AC: Gold Rush; plague; Years of Infamy.(GAZ3) Plague is sent by the Immortal Yagrai, spreading to Glantri.(GAZ10) 805 AC: Dwarves fleeing the anti-dwarf policies of Glantri establish small communities in the mountains of Nagpuri, Gunjab, and Peshmir.(CoM) 812 AC: Carnelia de Fedorias is born.(JA) 828 AC: The dwarves are expelled and Lord Alexander Glantri ambushes Halzunthram; the Alphatians are defeated, marking the end of the Forty Years War.(GAZ3) Many dwarves depart on Guild ships to join the craftsmen of the Minrothad Isles; they settle on Fortress Island.(GAZ9) 829 AC: Lord Glantri founds the Republic of Glantri and reforms the council.(GAZ3) 845 AC: Construction of the Great School of Magic.(GAZ3) Etienne d'Ambreville discovers the Radiance, and uses it to attain Immortality.(WotI) 858 AC: Nobility reserved for wizards only; council members gain the hereditary title of Prince.(GAZ3) 859 AC: Illegal nobles are expelled and the wizards crush a minor rebellion.(GAZ3) c.867AC: Gilles Grenier is born in Old Averoigne.(GAZ3) 875 AC: The School of Magic is completed.(GAZ3) 884 AC: After much strife, the Elven Principality divides into Erewan and Belcadiz.(G:KoM) 888 AC: Igor Gorevitch-Woszlany is born.(PC2) 896 AC: Chateau d'Ambreville disappears from New Averoigne without a trace, taking the d'Ambrevilles with it.(PC4) Etienne, 7th Prince of New Averoigne, disappears with his family.(X2) 898 AC: New immigration wave; the population mixes freely; frictions decrease.(GAZ3) 911 AC: Carlotina Erewan is born.(JA) 920 AC: Economic agreement signed between Glantri and Darokin, allowing free passage for all merchant caravans. Business is booming in Glantri City.(GAZ3) c.925AC: Uthar Aendyr is born.(GAZ3) 927 AC: Brannart McGregor is born.(JA) c.930AC: Volospin Aendyr is born.(GAZ3) 934 AC: Harald of Haaskinz is born.(JA) 935 AC: Frau Hildegarde is born.(GAZ3) c.940AC: Glantri arranges an exchange treaty with the goblins of High Gobliny, under the rule of King Oth.(HWA1, with extrapolation w/GAZ10) 943 AC: Rolf von Graustein is born.(G:KoM) 945 AC: Jaggar von Drachenfels is born.(JA- notice the discrepancy with his mothers' b-date in 935?!?!?!) 958 AC: Jherek Virayana is born.(JA) 960 AC: Margaret of Hillsbury is born.(PWA1011) ------------------------------ From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:35:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Terari's Quest for Immortality >>I doubt Old Tylion is close to acchieving sucess after Alphatia sinking, >>perhaps he (temporarily?) gave up or maybe he is indeed adcvancing ,teaching >>in Karameikos, following his path of Schoarship and Magical Learning, the >>Goals ogf Ssu-Ma. >Certainly He was somewhat set back, but he left on his own, IIRC, and so he >was able to bring with him anything that he wanted. when what was left of the 1000 wizards met with Zandor in WotI and Zandor declared that they would teleport above glantri and bombard the place whoever didnt want to, would be exiled from alphatia terari was one of the exiled mages so he must have been able to bring everything with him to Karameikos ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #293 ***************************** mystara-digest Saturday, 23 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 294 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: alwis adrian hohlweg Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 00:44:02 +1100 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Lighthouses > ->Also, what do the general population of Alphatia think that their normal sea-going ships are for? > -> >They are completely useless now! This reminds me of an annoyance I've always had with the Hollow World in general: Why are there lighthouses all over the place. I know there's "The" Lighthouse on the World spine, but on the map there are lighthouses all over the place on the seashore. They would still be useful in navigation (I often have navigated by buildings when fishing) but lighthouses is the wrong word! They should be navigation posts or something! But I suppose "lighthouse" is just the best translation into English. Well, I've answered the question I didn't ask myself, but hopefully this comment will be of some interest to some people. Alwis Hohlweg ------------------------------ From: Robert Kaelin Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:13:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] WotI >sure. Maybe Alphaks deliberately threw the meteor at Corran Keep (he does >tend to bend those nonintervention guidelines a tad, doesn't he?) in order >to obliterate further evidence that might have helped the PC's to complete >their quest or even to avert the war! (or maybe he just thinks that: >Alphaks is none too swift with matters of great complexity). Then again, >it is possible that Alphaks' meteor is really more related to Lillian >Corran (who is tied to Morphail, who serves Alphaks) than to the PC's ... >it may have nothing to do with the WotI in any direct way. > >just some thoughts. >m@2 I like them. One point that I'm not sure is important (I guess it depends on how you view clerics.) Lillian is currently a cleric (In fact she's name-level isn't she?) of Hel, on a special mission for Hel. I don't think she would really go ask Morphail for Alphak's assistance. Of course, it could all just be a really subtle plot of Hel's to use Alphaks to achieve her own ends and Hel told Lillian to ask Morphail. Do Morphail and Alphaks even communicate anymore? I agree the meteor probably has nothing to do with the PC's actions during WotI and could very well be unrelated. Alphaks might have just felt some kind of surge of power from when Benekander emerged from the mirror shield and decided to find a way to smash it. It sounds like an Alphaks thing to do. :-) >Also, what if >Morphail knows about the mirror and is looking for the PC's on Alphaks' >behalf? Actually, I'd imagine if the Immortals discovered the existance of the mirror-shield, with it's Immortal life trapping power, it'd be a pretty eagerly sought out item by the Immortals of Entropy. (And many immortals of the other spheres as well.) So, what happened to the mirror shield? Is Benekander just hiding it somewhere deep inside his Home Plane (he's only level 1 after all...it's not like they couldn't just take it from him.) or would he try to give it to his small, but growing, following? A few of the Immortals have seen it. Ixion and Rad saw it in the PC's possession during the final encounter and Rad saw it opened the nucleus so he must be vaguely interested in it. Assuming he comes back in your campaign, of course. - -Bob - ------------------------------------------------ Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence Software Developer 725 Concord Ave. (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138 Kaelin@natural.com ------------------------------ From: Enrique Pacheco Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:49:20 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mystara] MOrient << Not really. I have all the material ready in text format, and I was about to release it to the design team so we could start work, when it was suggested that I change the format to one large word 2.0 document. I've been very pre-occupied with school since then ( i got a little behind and haven't quite caught up ), however, I will try to get it reformatted this weekend.... >> Escuse me, what document is this? - -- Good government never depends upon laws, but upon the personal qualities of those who govern. The machinery of government is always subordinate to the will of those who administer that machinery. The most important element of government, therefore, is the method of choosing leaders. Law and Governance The Spacing Guild Manual Children of Dune 148 Enrique Pacheco ------------------------------ From: - Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:48:04 +-100 Subject: SV: [Mystara] Bruce McGregor and The Sphere of Time - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD8A8.34E5C780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >It seems to me that if any immortal were to be interested in supporting the >Society of the Claymore (or whatever it's called), it would be Vanya. That >could also explain why the society lost most of it's power during WotI, when >Vanya was supporting Glantri. Plus, Vanya seems to be the only Time >immortal with much interest at all in Glantri, except perhaps Prince >Harald's patron if he has one. You're absolutely right about one immortal >having many symbols. > One more thing: Vanya's clerics can use the sword. Other benefits of a Vanya Cleric: Warrior Constitution Hit Points Bonus Warrior Exeptional Strenght. Warrior THAC0 Disadvantages: Cannot turn undead. Acces to spheres limited. 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I thought the Thyatian Empire was the Greece of Mystara. I >> haven't read Dawn of the Emperors for a while so perchance I'm wrong. >> Although many Greek and Roman deities from Earth overlap, there are many >> that are only Greek and not Roman or vice versa. A good article about this >> is in Dragon #133. > >Actually, it's more like the Byzantine Empire, due to it's more >Renaissance-like feel. If anything, the Milenians would be the Greeks (I >believe they are based on Classical Greece, where the Traladarans are >Bronze Age Greeks), and the Thyatians would be Roman. > I agree now, after doing some rereading. :) I thought the Milenians were closer to Romans because they had a senate and emperor, but then I remembered the Thyatians have an emperor too. I think what makes the difference is that the Thyatians have a coliseum and the Milenians have Olympic-like sports. Also, much of the Thyatian culture came from the Traldaran culture, I think, just like the much of the Roman culture was based on that of the Greeks. I guess they both have Greek and Roman elements, but the Thyatians are more Roman and the Milenians more Greek. Well heck, if there's not enough Thyatian immortals I'll just use Roman deities. >> Thus, I would personally make some immortals distinctly Thyatian or Milenian >> - the ones that are only Greek or Roman, and some that have names in each - >> Zeus/Jupiter is an obvious example. > >There definitely seem to be a large number of Alphatian Immortals; one >wonders at the lack of Thyatian Immortals, especially given that that >Empire is nearly as old as Alphatia- certainly older than most other >nations of the Known World. > >> Of course Zeus would thrash Odin, for he traditionally has stupendous >> magical powers but the Norse gods in mythology are close to mere exalted >> status. :) > >My thoughts exactly. ;) > >Maybe I read too many Marvel comics growing up, but I've always been of >the opinion that Zeus would seriously thrash Odin. I might grant that >Odin is the wiser (he did hang himself for insight into the workings of >the universe), whereas Zeus is notoriously hot-tempered. > I'm confused now. I haven't read much Marvel, but I though they only had the Norse pantheons. Also, I've read a lot of mythology but never have I seen a myth in which Odin hangs himself... By Thor, perchance what I read was not very complete! I remember when he gave up his eye for knowledge from the Well of Mimir though. That leads to some interesting thoughts that I'd better mention so I don't get too far off the subject of Mystara. ;) Maybe there's some sort of Well of Mimir for the multiverse. Has anyone else thought of the Multiverse as being part of Yggdrasil the World Ash? Or maybe a world tree that is also an ash tree and close to it in a forest of world trees (because of all the elements of Norse mythology)? What I've read about planes seems like it would be quite possible, with all those vortices and things being the branches. >Which brings up a thought- maybe they got rid of Zeus as an Immortal >simply so they wouldn't have to deal with all those darned kids of his >running around Mystara- he was also a notorious wencher. ;) > Shawn Stanley said they didn't get rid of him, they changed his name, but I suppose that's what you mean. Well I suppose they prevented the demigods, but it was too late for not having some of his immortal children going around in mortal identity. ;) But then their names were changed too. I suppose it was to appease those few narrow-minded non-rpgamer sorts of people who would might think that D&D players actually worship Mystaran immortals, or something whacked out like that. David Melik Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net P P l u justice = time ---------------- centralization^2 /amount of common people that prevent and stop the greedy\ P = | -------------------------------------------------------- | l \ amount of common people that obey like sheep / /amount of people with power that restrain their greed\ P = | ----------------------------------------------------- | u \ amount of people with power that exploit others / This is congruent to equations dealing with force, such as Newton's law of universal gravitation: m m Thus, physics proves that it is scientific law 1 2 that anarchy (decentralization, *not* crime & F = G ------- chaos) is good (but must be maintained). Power d^2 to the people! ------------------------------ From: Jody Duncan Date: Fri, 22 Nov 96 14:41:38 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] MOrient Enrique Pacheco writes: > > << Not really. I have all the material ready in text format, and I > was about to release it to the design team so we could start work, when > it > was suggested that I change the format to one large word 2.0 document. From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 13:34:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA24609; Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:15:46 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA19917 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Sat, 23 Nov 1996 04:03:16 -0600 Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 04:03:16 -0600 Message-Id: <199611231003.EAA19917@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #294 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: d73eb8083d9831eabbab816261c8adca Status: RO > I've been very pre-occupied with school since then ( i got a little > behind > and haven't quite caught up ), however, I will try to get it > reformatted > this weekend.... >> > > Escuse me, what document is this? This would be the preliminary compilation of the MOrient material that I have been working on for some time... It's ready now, and I have released it to the MOrient development team, I might release part of it before it's finished to the list as well, but I'm not going to be able to send it to everyone who asks and isn't on the team, because I simply won't have the time to keep track of everybody... - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive!" Carleton U. Computer Science, Software Email addresses: jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca cq793@freenet.carleton.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Melik Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:31:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Who immortals were (Re: When immortals achieved immortality) At 10:06 AM 11/21/96 -0600, you wrote: >>Which brings up a thought- maybe they got rid of Zeus as an Immortal >>simply so they wouldn't have to deal with all those darned kids of his >>running around Mystara- he was also a notorious wencher. ;) > >But they didn't get rid of Zeus as an immortal, they just changed his name >(something beginning with P) and gave him a Mystaran history. This I think >is a much better alternative than keeping all those immortals as such. I mean >OK, we have Odin, Thor, Loki and all the rest of them already - that's quite >enough. > I think it was a tragedy when they renamed them, and don't use it. Zeus's name name was changed to Taroyas, according to WoTI. On the contrary, Mystara has but a few immortals from Earth mythology (according to TSR that is.) . I could make a list at least two pages long I estimate, of ones not included in "all the rest of them." Mostly, only the really major ones are included. I only remember five others besides the ones you mentioned: Thanatos, Hel, Nyx, Frey, and Freya. That is sad. What are they without the rest? There are other important ones that I think deserve a place in Mystara, like Tyr, Heimdall, Frigga, Hephasteus, Posiedon, Hades, etc., etc., etc. And I was only talking about the Teutonic and Greek myths here. I would prefer if they had just included all or none. Well, maybe not the really insignificant obscure ones, but all the major and well-known ones and others at very least. If you like having only a few, great, "to each his own." I just wanted to let you know that there *are* many more than "all the rest of them." David Melik Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net P P l u justice = time ---------------- centralization^2 /amount of common people that prevent and stop the greedy\ P = | -------------------------------------------------------- | l \ amount of common people that obey like sheep / /amount of people with power that restrain their greed\ P = | ----------------------------------------------------- | u \ amount of people with power that exploit others / This is congruent to equations dealing with force, such as Newton's law of universal gravitation: m m Thus, physics proves that it is scientific law 1 2 that anarchy (decentralization, *not* crime & F = G ------- chaos) is good (but must be maintained). Power d^2 to the people! ------------------------------ From: Jody Duncan Date: Fri, 22 Nov 96 14:49:31 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lighthouses alwis adrian hohlweg writes: > > > > ->Also, what do the general population of Alphatia think that their normal sea-going ships are for? > > -> >They are completely useless now! > > This reminds me of an annoyance I've always had with the Hollow World in > general: Why are there lighthouses all over the place. I know there's > "The" Lighthouse on the World spine, but on the map there are lighthouses > all over the place on the seashore. They would still be useful in > navigation (I often have navigated by buildings when fishing) but > lighthouses is the wrong word! They should be navigation posts or > something! But I suppose "lighthouse" is just the best translation into > English. > Well, I've answered the question I didn't ask myself, but hopefully this > comment will be of some interest to some people. What about for fog, rain, or when the alphatian continent is overhead? or some of the larger floating islands.... - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive!" Carleton U. Computer Science, Software Email addresses: jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca cq793@freenet.carleton.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Patrick Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:16:25 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams >Mmmh... maybe you're right. Skyreach Peagaturs then ? Sure. For now, at least. >>>>>Randel: Rardish Raiders, Dmiliburg Cavaliers >>>>I prefer the Cavaliers >>> >>>Ok for Cavaliers then. >>Alright! > >Rardish Cavaliers or somewhere-else Cavaliers ? Was Dmiliburg just a random selection? It could simply vary from year to year, but Rardish seems to make the most sense most of the time. >>Looks good, we just need to decide on Eadrin and Arogansa, I guess. And >>there's also Zandoria. >> >About Zandoria (recently renamed Jafilia IIRC) this is an excerpt from a >mail Herve sent me a few days ago: > >> But do they know in the HW that outside there's a maelstrom where Alphatia >> used to be ? Maybe that team will be created in the near future. > >They could learn it after Haldemar's return to the HW (with Zandor), but >only Empress Eriadna knows it. However, there is no Sundsvall anymore >anyway. One can imagine, however, that Eriadna sponsors a team in >Jafilia, and that she gaves it the name Sundsvall Maelstrom (but doesn't >give out the reasons behind this name). Well, first of all, I think it needs to be made clear that Vertiloch, the Kingdom which holds Sundsvall, still exists in the Hollow World. Jafilia is the kingdom that Zandor formed out of the former Imperial Territories. Empress Eriadna is the Queen of both kingdoms. For Vertiloch: I had confused the Sundsvall Maelstrom with the storm which destroyed the city, so I thought that everyone knew of the Maelstrom. Also, Sundsvall is still officially the capital of Alphatia, according to PWA1, and it will be rebuilt. So the team name doesn't really need to change at all (even though I like the name Maelstrom a lot). As for Jafilia, we would still need a new team name. ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:45:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] MOrient In reply to Joe's question, I would like the MOrient material in a text format, for me working on it or using it. I'm not sure which you asked, but it makes no difference because I'm using the same word processor of course. I suppose we should send you what we write in a text format, right? Because then a text format copy can be kept, and you can transfer it to whatever other formats you plan to. I think it would be a good idea to give the design team members your list of their email addresses and what they are working on because it will probably be useful to ask and discuss things sometimes. We can do that on the list, but I think it's easier to do if we know who's doing what. David Melik Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net P P l u justice = time ---------------- centralization^2 /amount of common people that prevent and stop the greedy\ P = | -------------------------------------------------------- | l \ amount of common people that obey like sheep / /amount of people with power that restrain their greed\ P = | ----------------------------------------------------- | u \ amount of people with power that exploit others / This is congruent to equations dealing with force, such as Newton's law of universal gravitation: m m Thus, physics proves that it is scientific law 1 2 that anarchy (decentralization, *not* crime & F = G ------- chaos) is good (but must be maintained). Power d^2 to the people! ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:01:49 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Fairly Complete Glantri, 980-994 AC Found that missing page at long last! 982 AC: Sire Malachie du Marais wins control of the Barony of Morlay deep within the Valley of Wolves.(PC4) Juliana Vlaardoen is born.(JA) 983 AC: Prince Morgaithe von Drachenfels dies, leaving his heir, Jaggar, to take up his title.(G:KoM) 985 AC: Founding of the Canine Protection Society in Glantri.(PC4) 988 AC: Lathan Aendyr is born; Bartolomeo di Malapietra is born.(GAZ3) 989 AC: Prinz Jaggar von Drachenfels marries Frau Gertrud ?, in order to more firmly unite the factions of the family.(G:KoM) 990 AC: Don Sancho de Belcadiz is born; Angus McGregor is born.(GAZ3) 991 AC: Carnelia de Belcadiz y Fedorias becomes Princess when her father dies and her husband goes missing.(JA) 994 AC: Several victories against orcs from the Broken Lands earn Prinz Jaggar the title of Warden of the Marches.(G:KoM) Sean McAllister is born; Thylera Aendyr is born.(GAZ3) ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 01:13:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Who immortals were (Re: When immortals achieved immortality) On Fri, 22 Nov 1996, Melik wrote: > >OK, we have Odin, Thor, Loki and all the rest of them already - that's quite > >enough. > > > included. I only remember five others besides the ones you mentioned: > Thanatos, Hel, Nyx, Frey, and Freya. That is sad. What are they without Don't forget Ixion and Protius, both Greek. Also Faunus, who may be Greek as well, but I forget. Though I think that's about it. ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 01:17:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] WotI > Actually, I'd imagine if the Immortals discovered the existance of the > mirror-shield, with it's Immortal life trapping power, it'd be a pretty > eagerly sought out item by the Immortals of Entropy. (And many immortals of > the other spheres as well.) So, what happened to the mirror shield? Is > Benekander just hiding it somewhere deep inside his Home Plane (he's only > level 1 after all...it's not like they couldn't just take it from him.) or > would he try to give it to his small, but growing, following? > > A few of the Immortals have seen it. Ixion and Rad saw it in the PC's > possession during the final encounter and Rad saw it opened the nucleus so > he must be vaguely interested in it. Assuming he comes back in your > campaign, of course. The shield AFAIK is in Benekander's posession. I don't see too much trouble over it, since the Life Trapping power requires a willing target. Though I suppose it could be modified to have that requirement removed, which could make an interesting Master or Immortal level adventure. Either trying to prevent the alteration, prevent its use, or to create the alteration perhaps to prevent some Entropic plot or trap some indestructible extra-dimensional creature. ------------------------------ From: Joe Duncan Date: Sat, 23 Nov 96 04:10:55 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] MOrient At 04:45 PM 11/22/96 -0800, you wrote: >In reply to Joe's question, I would like the MOrient material in a text >format, for me working on it or using it. I'm not sure which you asked, but >it makes no difference because I'm using the same word processor of course. >I suppose we should send you what we write in a text format, right? Because >then a text format copy can be kept, and you can transfer it to whatever >other formats you plan to. I think it would be a good idea to give the >design team members your list of their email addresses and what they are >working on because it will probably be useful to ask and discuss things >sometimes. We can do that on the list, but I think it's easier to do if we >know who's doing what. I plan on doing this and have given the team the e-mails of all the other members. I'll re-add your name and address as there was a problem ( you changed providers? ) and i was getting all my mail to you bounced. The first release is basically going to help find out what everyone will be working on... so that will happen later. > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive" Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca cq793@freenet.carleton.ca - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #294 ***************************** mystara-digest Tuesday, 26 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 295 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Melik Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 14:05:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Who immortals were (Re: When immortals achieved immortality) At 01:13 AM 11/23/96 -0500, you wrote: > > >On Fri, 22 Nov 1996, Melik wrote: > >> >OK, we have Odin, Thor, Loki and all the rest of them already - that's quite >> >enough. >> > >> included. I only remember five others besides the ones you mentioned: >> Thanatos, Hel, Nyx, Frey, and Freya. That is sad. What are they without > >Don't forget Ixion and Protius, both Greek. > I think Ixion is actually a mortal in mythology though, or a demigod at most. He was attracted to Hera too much and put upon a flaming wheel as punishment. That's Ixion's symbol isn't it? Either that or the shield of the Sollux >Also Faunus, who may be Greek as well, but I forget. > I had to look it up and Faunus is the Roman one, and Pan is the Greek one. Pan isn't in WoTI or the Gold Set is he?... David Melik Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net P P l u justice = time ---------------- centralization^2 /amount of common people that prevent and stop the greedy\ P = | -------------------------------------------------------- | l \ amount of common people that obey like sheep / /amount of people with power that restrain their greed\ P = | ----------------------------------------------------- | u \ amount of people with power that exploit others / This is congruent to equations dealing with force, such as Newton's law of universal gravitation: m m Thus, physics proves that it is scientific law 1 2 that anarchy (decentralization, *not* crime & F = G ------- chaos) is good (but must be maintained). Power d^2 to the people! ------------------------------ From: Rob Rickard Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 19:32:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Who immortals were (Re: When immortals achieved immortality) >I think Ixion is actually a mortal in mythology though, or a demigod at >most. He was attracted to Hera too much and put upon a flaming wheel as >punishment. That's Ixion's symbol isn't it? Either that or the shield of >the Sollux - ---------- Ixion was the son of Antion and Perimela. He was a king in Thessaly and a thoroughly bad hombre. His sins began when he married Dia the daughter of Eioneus but, failed to bring the agreed bride price. Eioneus held his mares as security on the dept. Ixion then lured Eioneus to his kingdom with the promise of payment. Once there he murdered Eioneus by throwing him into a flaming pit. The Greeks considered the murder of kin to be a particularly horrendous act. No man or god would purify him of it. Zeus finally decided to purify him, possibly because Zeus had taken an interest in Dia. Ixion went to Olympus for the ritual. Once in Olympus Ixion attempted to seduce Hera . She informed Zeus, who decided to test Ixion by shaping a cloud to look like Hera and placed it in Ixion's bed. Ixion took the bait and was caught in the act with the cloud. For this Zeus chain him to a fiery wheel, either in the sky or the underworld, for eternity. The cloud was to give birth to Centaurus . Dia gave birth to Peirithous either by Ixion or by Zeus. ***Just a question. How many Immortals from TSR were original?*** I like that so many are from our world and our own mythology. ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 17:29:13 +0100 Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] Bruce McGregor and The Sphere of Time At 16.48 22/11/96 +-100, you wrote: >>One more thing: Vanya's clerics can use the sword. > >Other benefits of a Vanya Cleric: >Warrior Constitution Hit Points Bonus >Warrior Exeptional Strenght. >Warrior THAC0 > >Disadvantages: >Cannot turn undead. >Acces to spheres limited. > >Requirements: 13 Str, 13 Con, 9 Wis. > All this things match surprisingly well with Bruce's condition: he has a claymore and he lives in an undead-rich area. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 17:11:02 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Fairly Complete Glantri Timeline At 00.10 22/11/96 -0700, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >Everything else is pretty well documented. Other than that, my timeline >consists of a bunch of speculation on birthdates, dates nobles recieved >their dominions, as well as some other stuff that only pertains to >another project I'm working on. I'll try and find that other sheet of >paper I'm missing, which has 980-999 dates in it. :) Great work ! I look forward to get that last piece of papers. BTW: did you look at Mark of Amber ? It has several sheets about Glantrian history, especially about the d'Ambrevilles. I don't know if that info was also in G:KoM, because I haven't got this one, anyway that stuff in MoA is really good. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 20:56:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] campaigning, and some ?'s I've been reading the campaigning chapter of the Rules Cyclopedia, the World Builder's Guide section in the Champions of Mystara boxed set, some gazetters, WoTI, some almanacs, the 1st ed DM's Guide, the Wilderness Survival Guide, map and culture books and an atlas of Earth, and coming up with my own ideas to try to put this all together into a really good format for detailing any sort of place. Does anyone know other things I should read? I'm trying to set it up like a fractal. If you can think of modifications to make it better, please say so, we can all improve our campaign formats by discussing this. While this may seem too far off subject, I thought I should post it because it. It will help not only with individual campaigns, but with projects that we do on the list, which *is* important to Mystara. I hope this will help us with our massive MOrient project. I went into great detail with this, and even though it's specific, it is also supposed to be general. There might be a better way sometimes, depending on the place or culture. Maybe some things don't have to be mentioned, and there are others that have to be put in. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to do their campaign (except for myself ;) ), because, of course, we all run them differently. Here's my current outline of it: I. Location/Maps A. Atlas/Maps 1. conventional maps - world/continent/country/economic/migration/community 2. others (because TSR's map system has fundamental flaws.) B. Gazeteer 1. physical a. dimensional/planar/physical & magical law stuff (if applicable) b. natural regions c. landforms d. flora & fauna e. climate f. special regions g. natural resources h. land use 2. political a. alliances/countries/communities 1. description 2. area 3. population b. landmarks and special places 3. encounter tables II. Immortals A. Descriptions B. Groups, Cliques, and Councils C. Religions & Sects D. Artifacts & Relics III. History A. Description B. Timeline III. Culture A. Society 1. society type 2. social structure 3. races & ethnicity 4. languages a. writing setup b. picture of alphabet c. common names 5. technological level 6. diets 7. homes 8. dress 9. beliefs a. ethics b. superstition, legend, myth, religion c. science 10. traditions a. ceremonies b. education c. others 11. calendar a. festivals b. holidays c. other days dealing with beliefs 12. average life of different ages and sexes a. daily c. yearly 13. organizations B. Economy 1. economic type 2. resources used 3. occupations 4. goods & services 5. trade (imports & esports) C. Politics 1. government type 2. members and/or organizations 3. revenue 4. military 5. foreign relations IV. Campaigning A. Skills B. Spells C. Mundane Items D. Magic Items E. How campaigning ties in with the rest of the stuff (I wasn't sure what to call this, anyone have an idea?) F. NPC's G. Campaign Ideas H. Adventures I. Adventure Ideas By the way, I've got a couple of questions. Recently there were posts about when immortals gained immortality. Could someone tell me when Ka and Ordana achieved it? I need to know for the MOrient project I'm working on. Can anyone remember who that immortal on the front of HWA3 Nightstorm is? David Melik Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net P P l u justice = time ---------------- centralization^2 /amount of common people that prevent and stop the greedy\ P = | -------------------------------------------------------- | l \ amount of common people that obey like sheep / /amount of people with power that restrain their greed\ P = | ----------------------------------------------------- | u \ amount of people with power that exploit others / This is congruent to equations dealing with force, such as Newton's law of universal gravitation: m m Thus, physics proves that it is scientific law 1 2 that anarchy (decentralization, *not* crime & F = G ------- chaos) is good (but must be maintained). Power d^2 to the people! ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 22:43:48 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Another timeline :) Following in the vein of my last (Glantri) timeline, I thought I'd post something from my ongoing Thonia/Blackmoor project. A note about the information herein: The dates presented here are based on the assumption (from HW and others) that 4000 BC is the beginning of the Blackmoor era. That being said, there are a few interpretations that could be made- 1) 4000 BC is the date of the events depicted in DA1. 2) 4000 BC is the date of the declaration of the Kingdom of Blackmoor. 3) 4000 BC is the date that Emperor Iyx learns of the Afridhi movement, and hence, the date events leading to Blackmoor's rise begin. 4) 4000 BC is an approximation of the time that Blackmoor begins its rise. For various reasons, I went with 4), making it the first year of the reign of Emperor Iyx. This jibes with some of the information given, plus I like it for aesthetic reasons. Whichever the case you may choose, the dates herein are all relative. (In other words, if you change the date of the 1st year of Emperor Iyx, an event that takes place 15 years later in my timeline will still take place 15 years later.) As always, any commentary/criticism is welcomed. :) c.5000BC: The First Republic of Thonia begins its rise to prominence in the world.(DA1) 4887 BC: Legendary birthdate of Uberstar Khazakhum, dwarvish hero.(DA1) 4487 BC: Uberstar Khazakhum founds the Great Mines, earning the nickname "the Great Architect." He becomes King of the Dwarves of the North.(DA1) c.4300BC: The North (and Blackmoor) is being settled.(DA1) Thonian refugees settle the far banks of the Misauga River; they begin calling themselves "the Unwanted."(DA4) The Immortal, Zugzul, begins to influence the Afridhi people of the Goblin Kush Mtns.(DA4) The Peshwah move into the Plains of Hak.(DA3) 4128 BC: A handful of scholars begin the cult known as the Order of the Frog. They believe that frogs should rule the world.(DA2) c.4100BC: The Empire of Thonia sends an army to end the independence of the Unwanted. They are defeated at Brushy Fen. Six months later, the Unwanted proclaim themselves the Duchy of Ten.(DA4) c.4077BC: Menander Ithamis becomes the leader of the Elves of the Red Woods.(DA1) 4057 BC: Village of Salt Town is founded in the High Hak.(DA3) 4049 BC: Gul Hadda is born in the Afridhi territory.(DA4) c.4030BC: The mysterious Egg of Coot magically creates a dominion for itself north of Blackmoor.(DA1) 4020 BC: Umra Dir is born in Afridhi territory.(DA4) 4015 BC: Gregor Mendicamp is born.(DA4) 4005 BC: Kay Degern is born in the Duchy of Ten.(DA4) 4003 BC: Rissa Aleford is born; her mother dies while giving birth.(DA1) 4000 BC: Emperor Iyx I begins his reign.(DA1) Having successfully created a militant matriarchical society, Zugzul sends his Afridhi followers east, towards the Empire of Thonia.(DA4) ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 23:17:08 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Another timeline, pt 3 Here's the last of it! :) 3100 BC: Emperor Korin II begins his reign of Thonia.(DA1) 3088 BC: Emperor Nial III begins his reign.(DA1) 3080 BC: Emperor Ruxpin I, "the Teddybear" (*), begins his reign.(DA1) 3077 BC: Emperor Oser I begins his reign.(DA1) 3054 BC: Emperor Bodmin I begins his reign.(DA1) 3040 BC: Emperor Halkad IV begins his reign.(DA1) 3030 BC: Emperor Ning I begins his reign.(DA1) From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 13:35:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA09846; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:08:09 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA01466 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:22:49 -0600 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:22:49 -0600 Message-Id: <199611262322.RAA01466@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #295 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 969bedb6fe8ed0802949c8cbf4362176 3014 BC: Emperor Melnik III begins his reign.(DA1) 3005 BC: Emperor Reger I begins his reign.(DA1) 3000 BC: Great Rain of Fire. The House of Andahar still rules the Kingdom of Blackmoor.(DA1) Blackmoor Comeback Inn sinks beneath the sea in the cataclysm.(DA1) 2800 BC: Blackmoor Comeback Inn rises from the sea, encased within a glacier.(DA1) 2000 BC: Glacier encasing Blackmoor Comeback Inn finally melts.(DA1) 1700 BC: Local cataclysm. Broken Lands shaken by explosion. Blackmoor Comeback Inn survives the effects of the earthquake.(DA1, HW) c.1000AC: Hepath Nun and his companions, Gern, Charo, and an unnamed warlock, enter the Blackmoor Comeback Inn. Their companion Rilk stays outside.(DA1) 1000AC+: Agents of the Iron Duke use the Blackmoor Comeback Inn (now dubbed the Prison Out of Time) as a staging grounds from which to kidnap King Uther I.(DA1) * I made up the nickname for Emperor Ruxpin. Nowhere is it stated that he is nicknamed "the Teddybear." I couldn't help myself, though, so sue me. ;) ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 23:24:11 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] campaigning, and some ?'s On Sun, 24 Nov 1996, David Melik wrote: > By the way, I've got a couple of questions. Recently there were posts about > when immortals gained immortality. Could someone tell me when Ka and Ordana > achieved it? I need to know for the MOrient project I'm working on. Can > anyone remember who that immortal on the front of HWA3 Nightstorm is? I don't think we have exact dates. For one thing, Ka was born long before Mystara prehistory (ie, before 5000BC), so it's tough to pin him down anywhere. As for Ordana, I believe she was a treant originally, again, in prehistoric times, before 5000BC when the first humanoid races began. Anything more specific is very difficult to come by. As for the immortal on Nightstorm, IIRC, that was no immortal at all, but rather a magically altered Irina ? (can't think of her last name), a Glantrian wizardess who was also a follower of Thanatos. He may have remade her in the image of a Shajapurian Immortal (I'll have to check). If so, I'd say it was the Shajapurian version of Hel- given that she was six armed, like Kali, from real world Hinduism. IIRC from the Champions of Mystara boxed set, Hel is the equivalent of Mystara's Kali. ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 23:08:04 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Another timeline, pt 2 3999 BC: The Afridhi overrun valemen settlements and smash their armies. The Vales become the first province in the Afridhi Empire.(DA1) 3998 BC: Afridhi armies hunt down and slaughter surviving Valemen.(DA1) 3997 BC: Afridhi practice heavy infantry tactics of the valemen.(DA1) 3996 BC: The Afridhi begin to march across the Plains of Hak.(DA1) Umra Dir enters the Sisters of Fire, devoting herself to the worship of Zugzul.(DA4) Gerry Castegere is born.(DA4) 3995 BC: Afridhi complete their march across the Plains of Hak. They develop light cavalry.(DA1) In Mohacs, Emperor Iyx I recieves word of the Afridhi migration. He ignores it.(DA1) Afridhi begin their campaign against the Duchy of Ten.(DA1) Fort Mugger is established in the Eastern Hak.(DA3) 3993 BC: Men of Blackmoor beg Thonia for aid. Emperor Iyx I ignores them, sends offers of peace to the Afridhi; Thonian envoys are sacrificed to Zugzul.(DA1) Hieronymus Castegere's wife (Gerry Castegere's mother) dies during a plague.(DA4) 3988 BC: Afridhi conquer the Duchy of Ten.(DA4) During the first six months of occupation, Thonian temples are burned, and worship of Zugzul declared mandatory. Minor rebellion in Duchy of Ten.(DA4) Kay Degern takes the title of Baron of Oktagern when his father is slain by the Afridhi. He goes into hiding.(DA4) Men of Blackmoor and Afridhi clash; Thonian agents sent to arrest Baron Uther. Uther evades Thonian armies for months, finally defeating them at the Battle of Root River.(DA1) 3987 BC: Northern barons defeat Afridhi at the Battle of the Neck.(DA1) After failed attempts at reconciliation with the Empire of Thonia, Uther declares himself first King of Blackmoor- many rally to his banner.(DA1) Menander Ithamis is selected as Lord of the Northern Elves.(DA1) Marshal Taha Marcovic is appointed Duke of Borno, to hold the Empire's northwestern frontier against the new Kingdom of Blackmoor.(DA1) c.3987BC: Bartertown is founded.(DA1) 3983 BC: Thonian forces driven out of Blackmoor; Marshal Taha Marcovic commands the rear guard during the retreat, earning the nickname, "The Iron Duke."(DA1) 3982 BC: Kingdom of Blackmoor manages to end immediate threats; New lands open up. Settlements planted between the Crystal Peaks and the Wurm River. University of Blackmoor is started.(DA1) The Peshwan Na Shepro is awarded the Barony of Dragonia; Brother Richard starts a small monastery in his fief.(DA1) Federation Starship, FSS Beagle, crashes in the lands south of Blackmoor.(DA3) Shortly thereafter, refugees from the starship, lead by Security Chief Stephen "the Rock" Rockwell, seek shelter in Frog Swamp. 'Saint' Stephen reforms the Order of the Frog; Froggie activity increases.(DA2,3) 3981 BC: The Regency Council sends an expedition to the Valley of the Ancients, to investigate the City of the Gods.(DA3) The Bishop of Blackmoor sends Gregor Mendicamp, a Thonian priest, to serve as an agent in the Duchy of Ten.(DA4) 3979 BC: Following the kidnap of his new bride, Bascom Ungulian, the Baron of Glendower, leads a small band of retainers into the domain of the Egg of Coot.(DA1) 3978 BC: King Uther is kidnapped while staying at the Blackmoor Comeback Inn. The Regency Council is baffled.(DA1) Timothy Curlytop, Shiremaster of Booh, is elected Clan Chief and Regent of the Halflings of the Northern Marches.(DA1) Uberstar Khazakhum is captured by the Gruuk of the Black Hand(*); Lortz Kharnundrum is named Regent of the Mines in his stead.(DA1) 3977 BC: Adventurers from the future appear in Blackmoor. They are instrumental in the rescue of King Uther.(DA1) Two months after Uther's rescue, Rissa Aleford, Baroness of the Lakes, is captured.(DA2) Two months later, a second expedition is sent to the City of the Gods.(DA3) Three months after the completion of the second expedition, an expedition is made to the Duchy of Ten, to destroy the Well of Souls. (DA4) * Note- in DA1, these are called the Orcs of the Black Hand, but given that later sources have stated that true orcs did not exist until after the Great Rain of Fire, in 3000 BC, I arbitrarily changed the tribe's name to the Gruuk of the Black Hand, in honor of the name of the Beastmen language (as per the Hollow World Boxed Set.) ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:46:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] humanoids I was just looking over this post from earlier, and I have a question. Where in Pyts do you get your information anyhow? :) >Hey all! I mentioned a while back that I was working on a more complete >timeline for our favorite >humanoids in the Broken Lands, hoping to update things to give them all the >credit they deserve- >from pre1000 AC up through the WotI.=20 >I thought I'd post what I've gotten so far, for your perusal, and also to >solicit your help for what you >think might be some good ideas for their activities, or even some things >they've done in the interim in >your own campaigns. Also, feel free to direct any questions, clarifications, or >just to ask where in the >hell do I purport to get my information from, anyhow? ;)=20 > (long timeline taken out but you can find it in the archives or other spots) /=AF=AF|=AF=AF\ /=AF\/=AF\ /=AF=AF=AF=AF\ / | \ / \ / o o \ | | | | | | | \ /|\ / \ / \ \__/ / \/_|_\/ , \ / , \____/ =20 \/ Peace, Love, & Happiness, David Melik Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net ------------------------------ From: sleipnir@northernnet.com (JL) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 23:49:10 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams >At 23.42 10/11/96 -0500, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >Ok, I'll explain those names, but before going on let me say that it's not >sure that those names will be included in the upcoming Micheal's timeline. >I'm still working with Herve on private e-mail, because he said that some of >those names were too NFL-like. Definitely... >Alchemos Oilers: I was looking for a name related with alchemy and that one >was the first that occured to me. Herve proposed Alchemos Transmuters and I >think this is better. Alchemos Alkaseltzers? Just kidding... Alchemos Brewers? Alchemos Chemists? Alchemos Alchemists? >Ekto Steelers: Ekto is renowned for metallurgy, there's also a College of >Metals. Ekto Artificers? I think it sounds better... >Spearpoint Mariners: Spearpoint is a fortress city, inhabited by soldiers >and built to protect Bellisaria from the Minaeans. Mariners? Why? Spearpoint Legoinares? Spearpoint Mercenaries? Spearpoint Defenders? >>> >Dawnrim: Alinquin Cowboys >> >>Does this name sound a bit too "modern?" > >Maybe... Herve proposes the Coppertown Red Skins, probably referring to the >copper skin of Alphatians. Dawnrim is a poor country, one of the major >industries there are cattle, sheeps and goats, maybe they're the Alinquin >Shepherds but it doesn't sound impressive. Too modern...is 'Cowboy' even a word in the Alpahtian language? Alinquin Ranchers. >>> >Thotia: Edairo Pharaos > >Edairo Sphinxes is better ? Sounds good! >>> >Aeria: Featherfall Supersonics >> >>Do they even know what the speed of sound is? >> >Mmmhh probably not, but who knows... >Anyway Herve proposes Featherfall Plumes, but I don't like Feather and >Plumes together. Suggestions ? Featherfall Whirlwinds? Featherfall Drifters? Just a few of my suggestions :) Take em at face value. The rest I like! (I'd join the Norwold Wyrms, personally) - -Oarim ------------------------------ From: sleipnir@northernnet.com (JL) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 23:49:14 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] mythology (was: Who Immortals Were) >>> Of course Zeus would thrash Odin, for he traditionally has stupendous >>> magical powers but the Norse gods in mythology are close to mere exalted >>> status. :) >> >>My thoughts exactly. ;) >> >>Maybe I read too many Marvel comics growing up, but I've always been of >>the opinion that Zeus would seriously thrash Odin. I might grant that >>Odin is the wiser (he did hang himself for insight into the workings of >>the universe), whereas Zeus is notoriously hot-tempered. Think Zeus could thrash Odin? Let's see, the Father of the Gods (Zeus) vs. the Maker of the Universe as we know it (Odin)...PLUS Odin is the Lord of Battle, God of the Hanged, God of the Spear, Betrayer of Warriors, Raven and Wolf Friend, Head God of a Pantheon whose main followers are the Vikings, Casts the first spear over the enemy in battle to claim the dead as his, etc...I personally think that Odin has the better chance of winning. What's Zeus got? Thunderbolts and a lot of affair-borne children... >I'm confused now. I haven't read much Marvel, but I though they only had >the Norse pantheons. Also, I've read a lot of mythology but never have I >seen a myth in which Odin hangs himself... By Thor, perchance what I read >was not very complete! APPARENTLY SO!! It's one of the main myths in the cycle (Try Kevin Crosby's "Norse Myths", it's a wonderful English trans). Odin hangs himself from Yggdrasil for nine nights and nine days, without food or water, finally he saw the Runes and grasped them up, falling... That is how he came to know the Runes, and teach them to men and Freya... >I remember when he gave up his eye for knowledge >from the Well of Mimir though. That leads to some interesting thoughts that >I'd better mention so I don't get too far off the subject of Mystara. ;) >Maybe there's some sort of Well of Mimir for the multiverse. Has anyone >else thought of the Multiverse as being part of Yggdrasil the World Ash? Or >maybe a world tree that is also an ash tree and close to it in a forest of >world trees (because of all the elements of Norse mythology)? What I've >read about planes seems like it would be quite possible, with all those >vortices and things being the branches. Ah! Yep! Except that other Primes are possible, you don't need a forest (Yggdrasil is supposed to encompass EVERYTHING...nothing exists outside it), within the tree...just make them part of Midgaard...but how to go about handling planes? Branches of the tree? Parts of Asgaard and Niflheim and Vanaheim and Jotunheim, etc? There are Nine worlds on the world tree... - -Oarim ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:29:39 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams At 23.49 25/11/96 -0600, Oarim wrote: >Alchemos Alkaseltzers? Just kidding... > >Alchemos Brewers? >Alchemos Chemists? Alchemos Alchemists? Brewers sounds good to me. > >>Ekto Steelers: Ekto is renowned for metallurgy, there's also a College of >>Metals. > >Ekto Artificers? I think it sounds better... > Mmmmhh.... >>Spearpoint Mariners: Spearpoint is a fortress city, inhabited by soldiers >>and built to protect Bellisaria from the Minaeans. > >Mariners? Why? >Spearpoint Legionares? >Spearpoint Mercenaries? >Spearpoint Defenders? Yes, Defenders sounds good. >Too modern...is 'Cowboy' even a word in the Alpahtian language? >Alinquin Ranchers. Very good. >Featherfall Whirlwinds? >Featherfall Drifters? I like Whirlwinds. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #295 ***************************** mystara-digest Thursday, 28 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 296 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 15:03:11 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] humanoids On Mon, 25 Nov 1996, David Melik wrote: > I was just looking over this post from earlier, and I have a question. > Where in Pyts do you get your information anyhow? :) > > >Hey all! I mentioned a while back that I was working on a more complete > >timeline for our favorite > >humanoids in the Broken Lands, hoping to update things to give them all the > >credit they deserve- > >from pre1000 AC up through the WotI. Good question! ;) I should have documented my sources for that, like I have most of my other timeline posts. Anyway, most of the information I gleaned from GAZ10, though some of the birthdates, etc. I got from the PWAs and Joshuan's Almanac. There are also some dates scattered throughout other products. A lot of the stuff I put in there is sort of arbitrary, based on information given in GAZ10, but not explicitly dated- such as Thar's becoming a nosferatu, some of the dates of the war, etc. They are mentioned in various places, and I extrapolated a bit to arrive at what seemed (to me) reasonable dates for their occurrence. I'd have to go over the timeline again to say exactly what I made up and what was given. I'll try to do just that this weekend. As for most of the birthdates, I went by the 'noid leader's descriptions- ie, if it mentioned that Doth was an old goblin, I looked under the description of the 'noid's expected age rates, found an average idea of the age of an old goblin, and used that figure. As a result, many of these dates are arbitrary ones. Thar, Alebane, and Kol have all been documented in the PWAs. ------------------------------ From: Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 01:34:02 -0200 (EDT) Subject: [Mystara] Immortal Shrines I was writing an email to the MOrient project, when this question came to me. Since it is not something specifically tied to that project, I decided to post it to the whole list, instead. When you start questing for Immortality, you must find your sponsor shrine, where you will petition him/her to accept you. Has anybody ever come up with where some of them have those shrines? Likely places. Dragon #200 didn't said that, but I got the impression Ixion has one of those among the flying minotaurs, but that was the only hint I had for any Immortal. Ideas? Andre Martins ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:54:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball teams At 09:29 PM 11/26/96 +0100, you wrote: >At 23.49 25/11/96 -0600, Oarim wrote: > >>Alchemos Alkaseltzers? Just kidding... >> >>Alchemos Brewers? >>Alchemos Chemists? Alchemos Alchemists? > >Brewers sounds good to me. > I haven't participated in this discussion yet but I like alchemists best... it sounds more humorous ;) Does Kelvin have a team, or is this in a certain country only, I don't= recall... What about Kelvin Contraptionists? /=AF=AF|=AF=AF\ /=AF\/=AF\ /=AF=AF=AF=AF\ / | \ / \ / o o \ | | | | | | | \ /|\ / \ / \ \__/ / \/_|_\/ , \ / , \____/ =20 \/ Peace, Love, & Happiness, David Melik Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:55:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Another timeline :) At 10:43 PM 11/24/96 -0700, you wrote: >Following in the vein of my last (Glantri) timeline, I thought I'd post=20 >something from my ongoing Thonia/Blackmoor project. ...=20 > I'm glad that you posted that timeline when you did, as it deals with Skothar, which we are developing in the MOrient design team. It will be indeed be useful! :) =20 Does anyone know of sources of information on Skothar, besides the almanacs, HW set, and DA series? /=AF=AF|=AF=AF\ /=AF\/=AF\ /=AF=AF=AF=AF\ / | \ / \ / o o \ | | | | | | | \ /|\ / \ / \ \__/ / \/_|_\/ , \ / , \____/ =20 \/ Peace, Love, & Happiness, David Melik Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:57:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] mythology (was: Who Immortals Were) At 11:49 PM 11/25/96 -0600, you wrote: >>>> Of course Zeus would thrash Odin, for he traditionally has stupendous >>>> magical powers but the Norse gods in mythology are close to mere= exalted >>>> status. :) >>> >>>My thoughts exactly. ;)=20 >>> >>>Maybe I read too many Marvel comics growing up, but I've always been of= =20 >>>the opinion that Zeus would seriously thrash Odin. I might grant that=20 >>>Odin is the wiser (he did hang himself for insight into the workings of= =20 >>>the universe), whereas Zeus is notoriously hot-tempered. > > Think Zeus could thrash Odin? =20 >Let's see, the Father of the Gods (Zeus) vs. the Maker of the Universe as= we >know it (Odin)...PLUS Odin is the Lord of Battle, God of the Hanged, God of >the Spear, Betrayer of Warriors, Raven and Wolf Friend, Head God of a >Pantheon whose main followers are the Vikings, Casts the first spear over >the enemy in battle to claim the dead as his, etc...I personally think that >Odin has the better chance of winning. >What's Zeus got? Thunderbolts and a lot of affair-borne children... > I'm wondering where you heard that Odin is the "Maker of the Universe as we know it." Scandinavian myth has a chaos theory. (By the way he has *2* wolves and ravens, and an eight-legged horse.) The titles and things you mentioned about Odin give him no power, they simply describe him. These quotes from The New Larouse Encyclopedia of Mythology are examples of why I say Zeus would defeat Odin in one-on-one combat: "He was omnipotent, he saw everything and he knew everything." (referring to Zeus), "Later we shall see, morever, that Odin was never considered to be an immortal god." This source is among the most comprehensive, well- researched, highly-reputed mythological tomes in existance. I inferred similar things from most other books I have read (I haven't read all of this one yet, it's big. :) ) Odin was also the Master of Magic, but that is nothing next to omnipotence. >>I'm confused now. I haven't read much Marvel, but I though they only had >>the Norse pantheons. Also, I've read a lot of mythology but never have I >>seen a myth in which Odin hangs himself... By Thor, perchance what I read >>was not very complete! > >APPARENTLY SO!! It's one of the main myths in the cycle (Try Kevin= Crosby's >"Norse Myths", it's a wonderful English trans). > I must have forgotten that as I just saw it with the part about Mimir's well. I'll see if I can find and read what you mentioned though, and then see what I think about this whole subject. > Ah! Yep! Except that other Primes are possible, you don't need a >forest (Yggdrasil is supposed to encompass EVERYTHING...nothing exists >outside it), within the tree...just make them part of Midgaard...but how to >go about handling planes? Branches of the tree? Parts of Asgaard and >Niflheim and Vanaheim and Jotunheim, etc? There are Nine worlds on the > Was not the abyss there before Yggdrasil? Does not Yggdrasil exist within it? The serpent Nidhogg resides in the abyss and gnaws at Yggdrasil's= roots. =20 Maybe in rpg's it encompasses even less than in Mythology. That concept doesn't work well with the Multiverse. Look at the vast difference between Old Ones and D&D immortals, and the difference between immortals and Norse gods. The mortal gods of Norse myth are slain at the end in Ragnarok, by mortal forst giants, and Tyr got his hand bit off(by Fenrir I believe), but he didn't have the power to make a new form. Even the immortals of Mystara, who are nothing next to the Old Ones are more powerful than them! So when Yggdrasil dies, the supremely powerful Old Ones die before the new world-tree grows? I think not! I bet the Old Ones could cause Ragnarok and create Yggdrasil again, the exactly the same way, they could even permanently destroy many worlds and they still would be there. Even immortals have much more power to shape their universe than the Norse gods= do. =20 Yggdrasil fits best as a single multiverse in rpg terms. I have my own campaign with my own set of dimensions, but I say it is not part of Yggdrasil, it is a separate world -tree. It seems logical to me that planes, dimensions, and even greater realities go on forever, far beyond the scope of Yggdrasil, with beings far more powerful than those of Yggdrasil. The existance of immortals, let alone Old Ones, and also the planar physics of both the gold Immortals Rules and Manual of the Planes strongly point to this sort of theory. Now don't get me wrong, I like the idea of Mystara existing in Yggdrasil, just not the idea of it encompassing all reality. I think with some logic and creatiivity it could be set up this way, even though Mystara and Yggdrasil may seem incompatible. /=AF=AF|=AF=AF\ /=AF\/=AF\ /=AF=AF=AF=AF\ / | \ / \ / o o \ | | | | | | | \ /|\ / \ / \ \__/ / \/_|_\/ , \ / , \____/ =20 \/ Peace, Love, & Happiness, David Melik Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:49:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] Yggdrasil (was Re: Mythology) I guess I just got too into certain subjects of mythology and forgot to reply to this part. ;) > Ah! Yep! Except that other Primes are possible, you don't need a >forest (Yggdrasil is supposed to encompass EVERYTHING...nothing exists >outside it), within the tree...just make them part of Midgaard...but how to >go about handling planes? Branches of the tree? Parts of Asgaard and >Niflheim and Vanaheim and Jotunheim, etc? There are Nine worlds on the >world tree... > I'd say make them part of the nine worlds if possible, depending on the planar address and what seems appropriate. Who says the worlds don't encompass several planes, there is no solid definition of a Yggdrasilian world (I wonder if that's even a word, well, it sounded cool.). I'm just going to write them down along with what they are so anyone can refer to= them. Alfheim-light elves Asgard-Aesir gods Darkalfheim-dwarves(dark elves) Gimle-heaven & the heavens Jotunheim-frost giants Midgard-man's world Musphellheim-realm of fire Niflheim-the infernal regions! vanaheim-Vanir gods By Garm, gaurd of Niflheim, I wish I had that list of all Multiverse planes that was posted long ago! I accidentaly deleted all my Mystara files when I was compressing and moving my files, and had to get them again. I don't think that post was filed. I can't get it from the archives right now because of phone line problems screwing up Netscape. If someone would be kind enough to send me the latest list, I'd be happy to discuss where various planes might go in Yggdrasil. Right now I'll use the few in WoTI. For example, I would make Pyts a part of Niflheim, and the similar planes of other spheres (Brynn, Draesten, Entrem, Mirage) in Gimle, also Pandius. I would consider the Astral plane the abyss in which Yggdrasil has its roots, and the space around it. The only idea I have had so far for the elemntal planes is making them all different parts of Musphellheim, but I'm not sure if I would want to bend mythology that way. Maybe I'm just adding to it, you could just say no one knew about the other elemental regions yet. Old Alphatia could have been a part of Musphellheim and then it separated= somehow. /=AF=AF|=AF=AF\ /=AF\/=AF\ /=AF=AF=AF=AF\ / | \ / \ / o o \ | | | | | | | \ /|\ / \ / \ \__/ / \/_|_\/ , \ / , \____/ =20 \/ Peace, Love, & Happiness, David Melik Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net ------------------------------ From: Mike Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:38:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] mythology (was: Who Immortals Were) > > Think Zeus could thrash Odin? > >Let's see, the Father of the Gods (Zeus) vs. the Maker of the Universe as we > >know it (Odin)...PLUS Odin is the Lord of Battle, God of the Hanged, God of > >the Spear, Betrayer of Warriors, Raven and Wolf Friend, Head God of a > >Pantheon whose main followers are the Vikings, Casts the first spear over > >the enemy in battle to claim the dead as his, etc...I personally think that > >Odin has the better chance of winning. > >What's Zeus got? Thunderbolts and a lot of affair-borne children... Well, if you're going to see who's the most powerful (Norse vs. Greek) I'd have to say that Surtur the Demon of fire (From Norse) would win. He sits at the world's southern end with his flaming sword, waiting for the Day of Doom, to go forth and destroy both gods and men. (Personally I think something that powerful, which can defeat even gods, might have a fairly good chance of winning.) Of course, I'm probably biased 'cause I tend to like Norse mythology a bit better. I dunno. > I'm wondering where you heard that Odin is the "Maker of the Universe as we > know it." Actually, (according to Norse myth.) Odin and his brothers made the world we live in "as we know it" (Perhaps that's what was intended?) > Also, I've read a lot of mythology but never have I seen a myth in which > Odin hangs himself... This was while he was in search of wisdom (Which he does most of the time. Hey, gods have to have something to do). He sought also for the wisdom of the dead, and hung for nine nights and days on the gallows -- sacrificed to himself. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmm... Well, now that I've put my two cents in. I do require some advise about the mystara campaign which I run. I started my PC's out by having an adventure where they were all introduced to each other. I gave them small explainations as to why they were adventuring, and what not. Unfortunately, as time progressed, they (meaning the people who play the PC's) really haven't put much thought into their character's background or development. They're more interested in obtaining material wealth. Which isn't a bad thing, dont' get me wrong, but it does get boring (to me anyway) if that's all they do. I was wondering, what could be done to inspire them to develop their character's more? Mike Life is pain...!! Anyone who says differently is selling something. ------------------------------ From: "Jorge Villalobos" Date: 28 Nov 1996 12:14:56 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] mythology (was: Who Immortals Were) >Hmm... Well, now that I've put my two cents in. >I do require some advise about the mystara campaign which I run. > >I started my PC's out by having an adventure where they were all >introduced to each other. I gave them small explainations as to why >they were adventuring, and what not. Unfortunately, as time progressed, they >(meaning the people who play the PC's) really haven't put much thought >into their character's background or development. They're more >interested in obtaining material wealth. Which isn't a bad thing, >dont' get me wrong, but it does get boring (to me anyway) if that's >all they do. > >I was wondering, what could be done to inspire them to develop their >character's more? How about removing their wealth from them and send them someplace where no one knows them. Make them work for their livings. This can be done in an hour (remember who makes the rules). If you don´t like that idea how about playing with their families. They must have families. Good luck and I hope my ideas can help you. > > > >Mike >Life is pain...!! From ???@??? Sat Nov 30 13:42:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA23755; Fri, 29 Nov 1996 14:08:53 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA25136 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Thu, 28 Nov 1996 20:50:33 -0600 Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 20:50:33 -0600 Message-Id: <199611290250.UAA25136@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #296 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 6736b6ae6f5f6b3f4c0e6eb00aad9e8d >Anyone who says differently is selling something. > - ----------------------------------------------------------------- | ==(W{==========- | | || (.--.) | | | \_,|**|,__ Jorge Villalobos Duran | | `\ ' `--' ), Universidad de los Andes | | `\_. .__/\ \ factol@hotmail.com | | | . |""""| jo-villa@uniandes.edu.co | | /==0==-\<>/ jvillalobos@envirolink.org | | | / \ | Tel (571) 2585382 | | ( ) ( ) | | | ; | ; | | | ; | ; | - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___ _____ .'/,-Y" "~-. l.Y ^. /\ _\_ i ___/" "\ DOUGH!!!! | /" "\ o ! l ] o !__./ \ _ _ \.___./ "~\ X \/ \ ___./ ( \ ___. _..--~~" ~`-. ` Z,-- / \ \__. ( / ______) \ l /-----~~" / Y \ / | "x______.^ | \ To the tune of ``Jingle Bells'': Azathoth Azathoth Azathoth, the King Center of the Universe, Insanity he brings, Hey! - --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Enrique Pacheco Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:38:33 -0600 Subject: [Mystara] Re: make them play >I started my PC's out by having an adventure where they were all >introduced to each other. I gave them small explainations as to why >they were adventuring, and what not. Unfortunately, as time progressed, they >(meaning the people who play the PC's) really haven't put much thought >into their character's background or development. They're more >interested in obtaining material wealth. Which isn't a bad thing, >dont' get me wrong, but it does get boring (to me anyway) if that's >all they do. > >I was wondering, what could be done to inspire them to develop their >character's more? Why don't you try to play an adventure in which there is no hack and slash, but instead depends upon role playing. You could have a thief's guild kidnapp a friend or patron of the characters and from there make them have to establish a contact with the guild, make them bribe someone in the upper jerarky just to know that the kidnap-victim is now in the possesion of a rival, which in turn would make them have to get information about him, etc. - -- Good government never depends upon laws, but upon the personal qualities of those who govern. The machinery of government is always subordinate to the will of those who administer that machinery. The most important element of government, therefore, is the method of choosing leaders. Law and Governance The Spacing Guild Manual Children of Dune 148 Enrique Pacheco ------------------------------ From: - Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 20:00:18 +-100 Subject: [Mystara]Help Wanted? - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBDD67.398F8E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You Wrote: >Hmm... Well, now that I've put my two cents in. >I do require some advise about the mystara campaign which >I run.=20 >I started my PC's out by having an adventure where they >were all=20 >introduced to each other. I gave them small explainations as >to why=20 >they were adventuring, and what not. Unfortunately, as time = >progressed, they=20 >(meaning the people who play the PC's) really haven't put >much thought = >into their character's background or development. They're >more=20 >interested in obtaining material wealth. Which isn't a bad >thing,=20 >dont' get me wrong, but it does get boring (to me anyway) if >that's=20 >all they do. >I was wondering, what could be done to inspire them to >develop their=20 >character's more? =20 Try to add a little campaign flavor, use the history of the land to = create beleivable childhood memories for the characters. (Your father = fought in the battle of Blablabla, and died.) Also, emphasize the campaign on role-playing and not dice-rolling. Make = the players play their roles. Withdraw the treasure. Does every f''king = monster have a big treasure? No. Try to give them as little magic as possible, and don't get them into a = lot of battles. Make them talk to people. Make them think. Work togeter = with the player to make a character he is happy with. Make someone = beleivable, or, if you think it will work, make a unbeleivable = larger-than life character. But be careful.... don't be too strict, and = don't play it exactly as the rules states. And remember that you are a = Storyteller (TM:White Wolf) when you are a DM! _________________________________________________ By The Bloody Veins Of Time We Live. Forever in Darkness. To Never See The Light. The Sun, The Moon.=20 To Never Hear no Sound, The Wind, The Rain. To Never Sense a Thing. Not Love. Nor Heat. Nor Cold. Nothing. 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The game is alphatian only, but maybe in future, when Hardball will become popular in Karameikos too (because of the alphatian refugees), we'll have the >Kelvin Contraptionists ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 17:32:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara]Help Wanted? At 08:00 PM 11/28/96 +-100, you wrote: >You Wrote: >>Hmm... Well, now that I've put my two cents in. >>I do require some advise about the mystara campaign which >I run. > >>I started my PC's out by having an adventure where they >were all >>introduced to each other. I gave them small explainations as >to why >>they were adventuring, and what not. Unfortunately, as time >progressed, they >>(meaning the people who play the PC's) really haven't put >much thought >>into their character's background or development. They're >more >>interested in obtaining material wealth. Which isn't a bad >thing, >>dont' get me wrong, but it does get boring (to me anyway) if >that's >>all they do. > >>I was wondering, what could be done to inspire them to >develop their >>character's more? > > >Try to add a little campaign flavor, use the history of the land to create beleivable >childhood memories for the characters. (Your father fought in the battle of Blablabla, >and died.) > That's very true. I'm going to talk about how to actually do that, and how to make it work. I have a friend who always makes us write about at least a page on our characters before we start. Just tell them "Get real, we're not going to play until you write a decent amount of stuff about your character.", or something. Once you get them going if you do it right, they will probably write more than your minimum. What you have to do is truly make the characters part of the campaign, part of the world. Let them read about the world (except for stuff that would spoil the campaign of course). Then they should write about their characters and have free rein at creativity. Encourage them to create new history, people, places, groups, etc., that tie into their characters personality and background. Let them also use what is already made, and relate these to their character, and what they create. You should try to be there when they do this, so they can ask you questions and tell you their ideas, and you can give them ideas too. Then when everyone is done with this, see if they work out what is written and planned for the campaign, if not, ask yourself if it's okay to modify the campaign. If not, talk with the players to get it to work out. Remember, you are the DM, and you don't have to tell them things they shouldn't know, and what you say goes. Then, when all the characters are ready think about how to connect past, present, and future of the world, the campaign, and the characters, what they wrote is inspiration and information for you. Every one of these times is important, and I think that it is actually the present that most people make the mistakes on. Often, the characters don't know anyone in their town except for themselves! Often, nothing from the characters past is related to where they start, there are no friends or relatives they wrote about, nothing! I can't stress this enough. The past and present have to connect realistically before the future happens realistically, time goes from past to future. Well, maybe it can still work out, but it just won't seem like a story should. The game is supposed to be about everyone creating a story together, and I think those are some of the most important things to do in order to do so. Here is a summary: 1. they learn about world 2. they write about characters and world, as they hopefully discuss it with you 3. you read what everyone wrote and think about if it will all work together with the campaign. 4. if it doesn't see campaign can be modified, if not characters must be modified, don't let them know why if they shouldn't, and your word is final 5. once all characters are ready work them and whatever else the players wrote into your campaign 6. don't start the adventure until this stuff is done >Also, emphasize the campaign on role-playing and not dice-rolling. Make the players >play their roles. Withdraw the treasure. Does every f''king monster have a big >treasure? >No. > In fact, *most monsters do not have ANY treasure*! (especially in wilderness) Give the, xp for good role-playing and dock it for pure hack-n-slash I'm not sure what xD&D you use,(I use 'em all), but according to the 1st ed AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide you have to train to gain a new level, and this training costs money. I know some people say this is crazy, but I just want to tell everyone, read what it says before you jump to conclusions. It has some very valid points. I'm not sure what they are right now, but if you can't access this, ask me and I'll tell you later. No character, I don't care what level they are should end up with disproportionate amounts of money. There should be a slow progression, they should get what is appropriate for their level. Most don't end up with more unless they strike it lucky, and I say end up because characters should have to use a lot of their money, and this is realistic. Do you use taxes, fees, etc.? Do you know how much it costs for temporary magic items, how rare they should be, and why? They are probably harder and more expensive and time-consuming to make than you think. A town with a "magic shop" is not realistic. I'm not saying you should usually let characters die because they can't get a healing potion or spell, but they should really have to pay. Rememver that post about why most clerics should actually not have as many spells as the book suggests? It's the exceptional ones, the *adventuring* ones, the ones that actually further the interests of their order that recieve the reward of magic. I'm not saying high-mana campaigns don't work, they are just harder to run, and you have to do it right. You can still have epic style adventure in low-mana worlds. Well, enough rambling for now. The Wilderness Survival Guide has a good section that tells about the different types of role-players. I suggest that you read it if you can, it will probably help you. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #296 ***************************** mystara-digest Sunday, 1 December 1996 Volume 01 : Number 297 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sleipnir@northernnet.com (JL) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 03:38:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Yggdrasil (was Re: Mythology) >I guess I just got too into certain subjects of mythology and forgot to >reply to this part. ;) >Alfheim-light elves >Asgard-Aesir gods >Darkalfheim-dwarves(dark elves) >Gimle-heaven & the heavens >Jotunheim-frost giants >Midgard-man's world >Musphellheim-realm of fire >Niflheim-the infernal regions! >vanaheim-Vanir gods Jotunheim is home to all the various Giants and Etins, not merely the Frost Giants. Niflheim is the realm of ice and mist, not the infernal regions (that would be Hel). Hel, BTW, is not a burning, fiery place of punishment...it's a dreary, boring place where those who did not die in battle spend their after-existance. Gimle????? From whence comes Gimle? There is no Gimle in Norse mythology. Though you didn't mention Hel, so whatever source you are using forgot to mention Hel and replaced it with this Gimle place. >The only idea I have had so far for the elemntal >planes is making them all different parts of Musphellheim, but I'm not sure >if I would want to bend mythology that way. Muspelheim could be the Elemental plane of Fire...Vanaheim the Elemental plane of Earth...Niflheim could be Water...Jotunheim could be Air... Well, I like all of them but Jotunheim... Maybe Svartalfheim would fit better as Earth...Niflheim as Air...Muspelheim as Fire...Alfheim as Air... That makes Jotunheim the Negative Energy plane, and Vanaheim the Postive Energy plane... Hrm...or maybe we could make those be Hel and Asgaard respectively... Of course, so some of these might also double as Outer Planes...The World Tree could represent BOTH levels of reality...the Inner Planes and the Outer Planes... >Old Alphatia could have been a part of Musphellheim and then it separated somhow Hrm...could have been...or maybe part of the mixing of Muspelheim/Niflheim...since the original war was between the Followers of Fire and the Followers of Air. Now, on to the Outer Planes view of the tree... The way the tree is set up is as follows : YGGDRASIL - --------- 1. Asgaard 1 2. Vanaheim 2 4 3 3. Niflheim 5 4. Alfheim 7 6 8 5. Midgaard 9 6. Svartalfheim 7. Muspelheim 8. Jotunheim 9. Hel Since each of the Outer Planes is linked to a particular alignment, I would assign each the following... Asgaard : Chaotic Good Gladsheim Vanaheim : Lawful Good Twin Paradises Alfheim : Neutral Good Arcadia Niflheim : Chaotic Neutral Limbo Midgaard : Neutral Concordant Opposition Svartalfheim : Neutral Evil Pandemonium Muspelheim : Lawful Neutral Gehenna Jotunheim : Chaotic Evil Tarterus Hel : Lawful Evil Archeron Well, if there is one thing this exercise has taught me, it's that the Norse World Tree doesn't fit at all well into the D&D cosmology! Anybody have any better suggestions for which planes would be which? - -Oarim ------------------------------ From: sleipnir@northernnet.com (JL) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 03:38:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] mythology (was: Who Immortals Were) >> Think Zeus could thrash Odin? >>Let's see, the Father of the Gods (Zeus) vs. the Maker of the Universe as we >>know it (Odin)...PLUS Odin is the Lord of Battle, God of the Hanged, God of >>the Spear, Betrayer of Warriors, Raven and Wolf Friend, Head God of a >>Pantheon whose main followers are the Vikings, Casts the first spear over >>the enemy in battle to claim the dead as his, etc...I personally think that >>Odin has the better chance of winning. >>What's Zeus got? Thunderbolts and a lot of affair-borne children... >> >I'm wondering where you heard that Odin is the "Maker of the Universe as we >know it." Scandinavian myth has a chaos theory. Actually, it's not a 'chaos' theory...it's a duality (fire and ice). Notice I said the maker of the Universe **as we know it**... If you'll note, Odin and his brothers Vili and Ve killed Ymir and formed the heavens from his skull, the clouds from his brains, the mountains from his bones, his blood the seas, his teeth the boulders; they set the Dwarves North, South, East and West at the four corners to hold the sky down, they set sparks from Muspell into the sky as the Sun and Moon and stars...etc, etc, etc The Universe was chaotic and unformed until Odin killed Ymir and set it aright. >(By the way he has *2* wolves and ravens, and an eight-legged horse.) Yes, Hunin and Munin (Thought and Memory), and Freki and Geri, and Sleipnir (surprise, surprise...my e-address...). "Raven and Wolf friend" (I assume you know little about Norse kennings (word-plays)?) : the Norse saw Wolves and Ravens as carrion-eaters, always present at the aftermath of a battle to feast on corpses...thus, making them friendly to Odin who provided their food (as Lord of Battle). >The titles and things you >mentioned about Odin give him no power, they simply describe him. They describe his powers accurately. "King" is a title, it infers that one bearing it will have certain powers. Hence, all the titles above are descriptions of his powers to those who understand their inferences. >These quotes from The New Larouse Encyclopedia of Mythology are examples of why I >say Zeus would defeat Odin in one-on-one combat: "He was omnipotent, he saw >everything and he knew everything." For an omnipotent, omniscient God...he did some rather less than omni things in his time...(not to mention, in all the years I've studied mythology, I have NEVER heard this said about Zeus) As for Odin not being omniscient, the following : Hunin and Munin would fly out over the world each day, reporting to him (Odin) all they saw and heard. When Odin sat upon Hlidskjalf (his seat in Valaskjalf), nothing in all the Nine worlds could be hidden from him. Omniscience if I ever saw it. >(referring to Zeus), "Later we shall see, morever, that Odin was never considered to >be an immortal god." Hrm...and why was this? (what does it say about this 'later') Because he dies at Ragnarok via wolf-jaws? He certainly had eternal youth, via Idun's golden apples. >This source is among the most comprehensive, well- researched, highly-reputed >mythological tomes in existance. So you say, I've never heard of it. :) I'll check on it's value with some friends. >I inferred similar things from most other >books I have read (I haven't read all of this one yet, it's big. :) ) Odin >was also the Master of Magic, but that is nothing next to omnipotence. He was the Master of more than merely magic...much, much more. Go back and read all his titles again. In actuality, he had over a hundred of them. And I still don't believe that Zeus was EVER considered omnipotent. As I've said, I've never heard it before in all the mythological texts I have read. >>APPARENTLY SO!! It's one of the main myths in the cycle (Try Kevin Crosby's >>"Norse Myths", it's a wonderful English trans). >> >I must have forgotten that as I just saw it with the part about Mimir's >well. I'll see if I can find and read what you mentioned though, and then >see what I think about this whole subject. Alrighty! :) >> Ah! Yep! Except that other Primes are possible, you don't need a >>forest (Yggdrasil is supposed to encompass EVERYTHING...nothing exists >>outside it), within the tree...just make them part of Midgaard...but how to >>go about handling planes? Branches of the tree? Parts of Asgaard and >>Niflheim and Vanaheim and Jotunheim, etc? There are Nine worlds on the >> >Was not the abyss there before Yggdrasil? Does not Yggdrasil exist within >it? No and No. Yggdrasil was before all and after all. It is eternal. Not even Odin "knows or will know the roots of that ancient tree." There was no 'Abyss' in Norse myths...I'm begining to wonder what you've been reading... There was Muspel (realm of fire) and Niflheim (realm of ice), and where they met, Ginnungagap, where the fire melted the ice and the icewater turned the fire to steam...this is where Ymir (the evil Frost Giant, first Being) was formed. >The serpent Nidhogg resides in the abyss and gnaws at Yggdrasil's roots. He rests in/beneath/deep within Niflheim, one of the worlds on the world tree. >The mortal gods of Norse myth are slain at the end in Ragnarok, by >mortal forst giants, and Tyr got his hand bit off (by Fenrir I believe), but >he didn't have the power to make a new form. Actually, a number of the Gods survive and go on to remake the world. There are a number of Immortals with such "handicaps" as Tyr's missing hand, notably Ka (who can not read or write...he never understood the concept!!), the Odin of Mystara has but one eye also (what? Can't he regrow a new form?), the face of the Hel of Mystara is half-beautiful and half-dead, Noumena walks about with thinning and balding hair, etc... My personal take on this matter is that when an Immortal spends a permanent amount of PP, something happens to their form (a hand is lost, or an eye...some part changes, etc). Thus, when Tyr spent permanent PP to bond Fenrir, he lost his hand in the process, when Odin spent permanent PP for a drink from Mimir's Well, he lost his eye. >immortals have much more power to shape their universe than the Norse gods do. Keep in mind that you are comparing a spirituality and mythology meant to be understood in a *symbolic* form, and D&D game beings with set abilities and autobiographical like lives. There is no comparison possible. >The existance of immortals, let alone Old Ones, and also the planar physics >of both the gold Immortals Rules and Manual of the Planes strongly point to >this sort of theory. Now don't get me wrong, I like the idea of Mystara >existing in Yggdrasil, just not the idea of it encompassing all reality. I >think with some logic and creatiivity it could be set up this way, even >though Mystara and Yggdrasil may seem incompatible. *nods* I still disagree. Yggdrasil traditionally encompasses all of reality...nothing exists outside of it. It is the symbolic format of reality...not actually a tree. Like "That rock looks like a turtle"...the rock is NOT ACTUALLY a turtle. What exists outside reality/what exists? Well, obviously nothing, since everything that exists exists. So I would say that the Old Ones are merely exploring parts of the World Ash unknown and unreachable to the current crop of Immortals. - -Oarim ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 13:29:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] a thing Is the list dead again, or what? ------------------------------ From: - Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 03:15:43 +-100 Subject: SV: [Mystara] a thing - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBDF35.F6945E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David Melik Wrote: Is the list dead again, or what? Has the list been dead before?=20 I have only been on the list for a short time so I can't recall. But I remeber days when I downloaded 30 messages from the server. = Nowadays, there's been few.... A topic: The PLAYER'S OPTION Skills&Powers rules... How do you use the subabilities? Maybe this has been used before?=20 I can't recall.... I use subabilities over the racial maximum for all attributes, not just = strenght.... It's funny to play characteres with one really exeptional = ability, and one low one. Combinations: High Dex/Balance-Low = Wis/Intuition, High Str/Muscle and Con/Fitness-Low Dex'Balance or = Int/Reason etc... 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Tue Dec 03 10:27:12 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA03547; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 08:31:03 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA22079 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 15:13:30 -0600 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 15:13:30 -0600 Message-Id: <199612012113.PAA22079@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #297 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 3d0c787cb4a8d3b12fd9b77579b1c8f6 Status: RO ------------------------------ From: Estlor Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 00:05:08 -0500 Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] a thing > > A topic: > The PLAYER'S OPTION Skills&Powers rules... > How do you use the subabilities? > Maybe this has been used before? > I can't recall.... > I use subabilities over the racial maximum for all attributes, not just strenght.... It's funny to play characteres with one really exeptional ability, and one low one. Combinations: High Dex/Balance-Low Wis/Intuition, High Str/Muscle and Con/Fitness-Low Dex'Balance or Int/Reason etc... > Does anyone have any opinions? > IMHO: Basically, if you read the errata fix, no Sub-Ability is supposed to go above 18...ever. To this I reply "Okay, my elf had an 18 in Dexterity that became a 19 after modifier...does that mean I don't get the same bonus as without?" Basically, I use 18 as a character generation max (i.e. when rolled up, 18 is the limit), except in cases where racial max puts you over 18. Generally, I like SA because you can have specifically generated abilities. But what do you do when you have exceptional Strength? Do you disregard it for Sub-Abilities or take a "100%=1 point" system? Estlor ------------------------------ From: Joe Duncan Date: Sun, 1 Dec 96 01:26:55 EST Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] a thing At 03:15 AM 12/1/96 +-100, you wrote: > > >David Melik Wrote: >Is the list dead again, or what? Nope, just exam and holiday season I guess, people are running out of time for a bit. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive" Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca cq793@freenet.carleton.ca - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Kaviyd@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 03:00:49 -0500 Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] a thing In a message dated 96-12-01 02:03:28 EST, estlor@geocities.com (Estlor) writes: << But what do you do when you have exceptional Strength? Do you disregard it for Sub-Abilities or take a "100%=1 point" system? >> I would use an approach similar to the one taken in the newer "Dark Sun" set: All Warriors (not just those with 18 strength) are allowed to add d6-1 points to their strength scores. If the adjusted score is 19+, interpret the result as follows: 19=18/01-50 20=18/51-75 21=18/76-90 22=18/91-99 23=18/00 24=19 etc. Then the sub-abilities are more easily handled -- they still have to be within four points of each other, and the maximum for Warriors is five points higher than for non-Warriors. ------------------------------ From: - Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:11:56 +-100 Subject: Re:[Mystara] a thing - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBDF91.DEAAAD40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > A topic: > The PLAYER'S OPTION Skills&Powers rules... > How do you use the subabilities? > Maybe this has been used before? > I can't recall.... > I use subabilities over the racial maximum for all attributes, not = just strenght.... It's funny to play characteres with one really = exeptional ability, and one low one. Combinations: High Dex/Balance-Low = Wis/Intuition, High Str/Muscle and Con/Fitness-Low Dex'Balance or = Int/Reason etc... > Does anyone have any opinions? >=20 IMHO: Basically, if you read the errata fix, no Sub-Ability is supposed to go above 18...ever. To this I reply "Okay, my elf had an 18 in Dexterity that became a 19 after modifier...does that mean I don't get the same bonus as without?" Basically, I use 18 as a character generation max (i.e. when rolled up, 18 is the limit), except in cases where racial max puts you over 18. Generally, I like SA because you can have specifically generated abilities. But what do you do when you have exceptional Strength? Do you disregard it for Sub-Abilities or take a "100%=3D1 point" system? Estlor We use it this way. If a Character rolls a 16 for strenght, his maximum = muscle or stamina is 18. If he rolls a 17, the max is 18/01. If he rolls = an 18, he rolls for exeptional strenght, and we use the different = exeptional strenghts for one point. i.e a character with a base strenght of 18/76 can have 18/00 in muscle, = or if he has 18/91, he can have 19 muscle, or if his base is 18/00 (Very = Rare), he can have a muscle of 20. 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If the adjusted score is 19+, = interpret the result as follows: 19=3D18/01-50 20=3D18/51-75 21=3D18/76-90 22=3D18/91-99 23=3D18/00 24=3D19 etc. Then the sub-abilities are more easily handled -- they still have to be within four points of each other, and the maximum for Warriors is five points = higher than for non-Warriors. I'd say that this system is silly. I don't see why everyone with a high = strenght has to be a Warrior? Or did the character become that strong = after he became a Warrior?. The character was strong before he became a = Fighter, what if he had become a priest instead... Oh, i'm sorry, but 40 = lbs of you muscle mass just disappeared. Oh, sorry. Warriors train their = muscles, all right. And it takes some time to become 1st-lvl in most = classes. Why can't Priests pump Iron? Not to speak of Rogues. Just = because you have exeptional strenght doesn't mean that you're a Warrior. = Got it. Abilities are equal for everyone in my campaign. 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I've read something about it in a GAZ but I don't remember exactly... Can anybody help me? Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it ------------------------------ From: Kaviyd@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 13:08:31 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Tritons In a message dated 96-12-01 13:06:22 EST, fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it (Gabriele Ferri) writes: << I was thinking about a triton realm... I've read something about it in a GAZ but I don't remember exactly... Can anybody help me? >> The source for information about Undersea is the Creature Crucible PC 3, _The Sea Peoples_. This kingdom is dominated by Tritons and includes many other aquatic races among its subjects. ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Sun, 1 Dec 96 10:01:55 PST Subject: [Mystara] What's going on here? Hey all, What's up with this dragging thread on AD&D ability scores, which has nothing to do with Mystara? Furthermore, what's with these attachments that are being sent everytime certain people email the list? Somewhat irritated, /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ ~| David "Azure" Leland ~|~ Email: dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu |~ ~| UCSD Cognitive Science ~|~ Phone/Fax: (619) 642-6709 |~ ~| Oberlin class of 1996 ~|~ Web: http://cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland |~ ~| Amateur conguero; Q(O+H)Q(G+W)AEEEBGKUS Mystaran; P75 on Ethernet |~ \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/ ------------------------------ From: Patrick Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 19:43:14 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Tritons >I was thinking about a triton realm... I've read something about it in a GAZ but I >don't remember exactly... Can anybody help me? I don't know what GAZ discusses it, but PC3 does. It give rules for player-character tritons, merrow, kna, kopru, nixies, sea giants, shark-kin, and aquatic elves, IIRC. It also describes the Kingdom of Undersea, the Triton kingdom in what they call the "Sunlit Sea," the area of the Sea of Dread amongst the Ierendi and Minrothad Isles. It is ruled by a Cleric-mage Queen. Under the queen are several barons, including undead, thoroughly evil, lazy, and nice barons and baronesses. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #297 ***************************** From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:09:12 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id GAA13410; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 06:53:54 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA24009 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:09:01 -0600 Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:09:01 -0600 Message-Id: <199612061909.NAA24009@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #298 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 149a78011ba83afab5c308441927eeb9 mystara-digest Friday, 6 December 1996 Volume 01 : Number 298 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 12:37:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN] AD&D stuff, Attachments, And Public Grievances On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, David 'Azure' Leland wrote: > Hey all, > > > What's up with this dragging thread on AD&D ability scores, > which has nothing to do with Mystara? You are correct, it is not Mystara related, and generally not on-topic for the list, as defined by the list FAQ (which can be found at http://www.io.com/~oryon/mysthome.htm). But, I think your jumping the gun here a bit. The thread only started today, maybe last night, and has only had three or four posts. Please, you have to give me time to respond to such things. And it is best not to post such things directly to the list, since this can cause possible hard feelings, especially when it involves people new to the list, who may not not the rules (which, again, can be found in the FAQ). Everyone, please, if you have a problem with list activity, write me private e-mail, sending it to van891@uidaho.edu. I check my e-mail multiple times daily, so I am likely to get your complaints quickly. As for the AD&D thread, this is best taken to private e-mail, or the ADND-L mailing list. > Furthermore, what's with these attachments that are being sent everytime > certain people email the list? I believe this is an artifact of using certain e-mail programs. I have talked to individuals on it in the past, but perhaps a general comment is in order. If you use a mail program that automatically adds an attachment, for whatever reason, please try to arrange to have this removed. It causes problems for some of our subscribers, and with the digest, at times. > Somewhat irritated, Understandable. Please, though, send complaints to me. Since I started this list up, I recieve the occasional letter from people who are bothered by the complaints of others, often because they were not fully aware of the rules. By directing problems to me, and letting me handle them, we are much more likely to avoid such problems Thank you for your time. owner-mystara-l@io..com Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "No Law, no Chaos, just magma in your shorts, or obsidian in your eye." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Candy's Ghost, on rec.games.frp.dnd ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 19:10:26 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] Campaign Help (Was: mythology) On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, Mike wrote: > Hmm... Well, now that I've put my two cents in. > I do require some advise about the mystara campaign which I run. > > I was wondering, what could be done to inspire them to develop their > character's more? This is a tough one, and something I've run into before myself. In my longest running campaign- which started off as a one-shot adventure, so there really was little thought put into the characters before we began- I had one player who really wanted to do some real roleplaying, and came up with a good background for his character (which had to be tweaked a bit to fit with the campaign background, but worked out fine), and another who had very little thought about what to do with his character. He basically just played a fighter type, brash and enthusiastic (not unlike the player). At any rate, I tried all sorts of things to get the player to develop his character more. I helped him develop a background for his character, wherein his family was caught between the Torenescu and Radu clans in Karameikos (unfortunately, I may have been too subtle when presenting this info to the player- when his character heard of it ICly, he pretty much ignored it all... ah, well.) I gave him the option of becoming a lycanthrope- a tricky situation with this player, as he was something of a hack 'n slasher. Ultimately, he did start to develop his character (unfortunately, the campaign came to a halt not long after, and we haven't had much time in the intervening years to play- separated by hundreds of miles, et al.) I think there were a variety of reasons for this: For one thing, the other player, the real roleplayer, served as a sort of inspiration in many ways to the hack 'n slasher. He used his brains rather than just muscle (and his character was no slouch in that department), and recieved many rewards for his roleplay, not the least of which was xp bonuses. I think the primary motivation for the player to develop his character, however, came through the campaign itself. I, through the actions and reactions of NPCs in the game, with the help of the other player, forced the hack 'n slasher to see that his actions would have consequences in the game world. He couldn't simply bull through and fight his way to success. One great example came when the characters were chasing their nemesis across Karameikos. They had gotten transportation on a ship, and en route to Specularum, the full moon caused the hack n' slasher's character to wolf out- and for the first time, he failed his control check (somehow he always had beaten the odds before- he only had a 7 wisdom, but this was the first time he ever lost it... odd.) Fortunately, his companions restrained him, but the sailors dumped them from the ship right then and there. Not only did he have to accept the consequences for his behavior (he had outright refused to take precautions against the change, trusting that he would retain control- also a bit of roleplaying on his part, as ICly, he had no reason not to believe that he would lose control), he also had the other player constantly berate him for his carelessness- even if only in the form of jibes about the event later. To make a long story short (too late!), if you force the characters (and the players as a result) to accept the consequences of their actions, they will hopefully eventually come to develop the characters somewhat. Oh, another piece of advice: colorful NPCs. Particularly a nemesis of some sort- have him kidnap someone who should be close to one or more of the characters, to sort of force a reaction from them. Have him hire mercenaries to assassinate them, but keep himself far from the conflict, so that they develop a personal enmity towards him, and are forced to seek him out. One or two colorful NPC henchmen, or simply contacts that they need to gain information can help, as well. ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 19:32:24 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Tritons On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, Gabriele Ferri wrote: > I was thinking about a triton realm... I've read something about it > in a GAZ but I don't remember exactly... Can anybody help me? PC3- The undersea races are described therein, as well as the Triton Kingdom of Undersea, which is located near the Ierendi Isles. ------------------------------ From: David Melik Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:49:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] a thing At 01:26 AM 12/1/96 EST, you wrote: >At 03:15 AM 12/1/96 +-100, you wrote: >> >> >>David Melik Wrote: >>Is the list dead again, or what? > > Nope, just exam and holiday season I guess, people are running out >of time for a bit. > Yeah, and I guess a lot of the more active of us are getting ready to focus on MOrient. ------------------------------ From: Dan Groves Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 12:45:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Tritons At 05:05 PM 12/1/96 +-100, you wrote: >I was thinking about a triton realm... I've read something about it in a GAZ but I don't remember exactly... Can anybody help me? > >Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it > It was in one of the Creature Crucibles. "The Sea Peoples" if memory serves.. Jim Bambra wrote it... and it's PC3 Dan Some people say my love cannot be true please believe me, my love, and I'll show you I will give you those things you thought unreal The sun, the moon, the stars all bear my seal - Black Sabbath Why settle for the lesser of two evils when you can have the greatest of all evil! Vote Cthulhu in '96! ------------------------------ From: David Keyser Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:27:55 -0800 Subject: [Mystara] Quick question on Ierendi and the Makai natives In my campaign, the PCs are soon to meet their first Makai natives from Ierendi. GAZ4 is disappointingly sparse on the native culture, and I don't remember any mention of where these people originated from, or what tribe of people they descend from. Possibly an Oltec/Neathar mix? The implied assumption(at least to me) is that the Makai are modelled after Hawaiians. I am thinking of modelling their appearance and manners based on that culture. Using the Filipino culture is another possibility. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on this? Dave Keyser ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:41:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Quick question on Ierendi and the Makai natives > In my campaign, the PCs are soon to meet their first Makai natives from > Ierendi. GAZ4 is disappointingly sparse on the native culture, and I don't > remember any mention of where these people originated from, or what tribe of > people they descend from. Possibly an Oltec/Neathar mix? > > The implied assumption(at least to me) is that the Makai are modelled after > Hawaiians. I am thinking of modelling their appearance and manners based on > that culture. Using the Filipino culture is another possibility. Does anyone > have any thoughts or suggestions on this? Although I don't have the book with me, you almost certainly want to take a look in the Hollow World boxed set - a group of Makai were transplanted during the lizardman-disease crisis. From what I recall, they're "yet another Neathar tribe", with little conception of personaal property. Hope this helps.. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Reg Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 22:46:39 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Quick question on Ierendi and the Makai natives At 01:27 PM 12/3/96 -0800, you wrote: >In my campaign, the PCs are soon to meet their first Makai natives from >Ierendi. GAZ4 is disappointingly sparse on the native culture, and I don't >remember any mention of where these people originated from, or what tribe of >people they descend from. Possibly an Oltec/Neathar mix? > >The implied assumption(at least to me) is that the Makai are modelled after >Hawaiians. I am thinking of modelling their appearance and manners based on >that culture. Using the Filipino culture is another possibility. Does anyone >have any thoughts or suggestions on this? > >Dave Keyser The Makai were supposed to be based off the Hawaiians but mixing them with the Filipino culture would probably sent your players for a loop. Reginald the MageSlayer May God stand between you and harm in the empty places you must walk ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 17:57:49 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] A Cry for Help! Hey all- I've got a question that I'd really like some feedback on. While compiling my Glantri timeline, I've been attempting to fill in some of the blanks in a number of areas- specifically, I'm trying to find some sort of timeline for the various dominions: when they were founded, passed down, etc.. This is a very tricky prospect for a couple of reasons- 1) There don't seem to be enough Baronies to go around; most of the dominion rulers likely earned their dominions, passing up the chain of command, so to speak, yet there don't seem to be enough baronies to justify this. Any thoughts? Actually, that's the biggest problem. The only other concern I have is that there seems to be quite a lot of activity within the last couple of decades, as opposed to the rest of the time that Glantri has been around. Specifically, Prince Krinagar's seemingly rapid rise to the position of Viscount (or is it Count?) of Skullhorn Pass, and then his being named a From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:09:12 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id GAA13410; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 06:53:54 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA24009 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:09:01 -0600 Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:09:01 -0600 Message-Id: <199612061909.NAA24009@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #298 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 149a78011ba83afab5c308441927eeb9 Prince (which, being an act of enfieffment, I can deal with...). Another case would be that of Jerbana Arbat, who arrived c.980 AC, and rose to the level of Viscountess (or was that Countess? something...) seemingly very quickly, where other rulers seem to have stagnated. Anyway, any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. :) PS- Let's not even mention the fiasco that Prince Etienne's return to Glantri would have caused... *GROOOAANNNN* :( ------------------------------ From: "George E. Hrabovsky" Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:00:41 -0600 Subject: RE: [Mystara] A Cry for Help! - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE243.AF6F1700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a lot of them being court appointments, essentially professional politicians rather than land-holders; in much the same way as there are landed lords and court lords in Karameikos. Hope this helps, George - ---------- From: Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One[SMTP:jsmill@imap1.asu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 1996 11:57 AM To: mystara list Subject: [Mystara] A Cry for Help! Hey all- I've got a question that I'd really like some feedback on. While compiling my Glantri timeline, I've been attempting to fill in some of the blanks in a number of areas- specifically, I'm trying to find some sort of timeline for the various dominions: when they were founded, passed down, etc.. This is a very tricky prospect for a couple of reasons- 1) There don't seem to be enough Baronies to go around; most of the dominion rulers likely earned their dominions, passing up the chain of command, so to speak, yet there don't seem to be enough baronies to justify this. Any thoughts? Actually, that's the biggest problem. The only other concern I have is that there seems to be quite a lot of activity within the last couple of decades, as opposed to the rest of the time that Glantri has been around. Specifically, Prince Krinagar's seemingly rapid rise to the position of Viscount (or is it Count?) of Skullhorn Pass, and then his being named a Prince (which, being an act of enfieffment, I can deal with...). Another case would be that of Jerbana Arbat, who arrived c.980 AC, and rose to the level of Viscountess (or was that Countess? something...) seemingly very quickly, where other rulers seem to have stagnated. Anyway, any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. :) PS- Let's not even mention the fiasco that Prince Etienne's return to Glantri would have caused... *GROOOAANNNN* :( - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE243.AF6F1700 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IikGAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAFNNVFAAbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABEAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYA AAAeAAEwAQAAABMAAAAnbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAFgAAAFNNVFA6TVlTVEFS QS1MQElPLkNPTQAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAD0CwBCIAHABgAAABJ UE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAHgAAAFJFOiBbTXlzdGFyYV0gQSBDcnkgZm9y IEhlbHAhAGoJAQWAAwAOAAAAzAcMAAUAAAAAACkABAARAQEggAMADgAAAMwHDAAEABcAOwAYAAMA UAEBCYABACEAAABCNUEzMEU4ODJENEVEMDExOUJFRDQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMAD7BgEDkAYAhAcAABAA AAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQCAxo6lceK7AR4AcAABAAAAHgAA AFJFOiBbTXlzdGFyYV0gQSBDcnkgZm9yIEhlbHAhAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbvicaWOiA6jtk4t EdCb7URFU1QAAAAAAwAGEAV7o6oDAAcQtQUAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAElIQVZFQUxPVE9GVEhFTUJF SU5HQ09VUlRBUFBPSU5UTUVOVFMsRVNTRU5USUFMTFlQUk9GRVNTSU9OQUxQT0xJVElDSUFOU1JB VEhFUlRIQU5MQU5ELUhPTERFUlM7SU5NVUMAAAAAAgEJEAEAAAA2BgAAMgYAAEUKAABMWkZ1hkwD Jf8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMzdwLk BxMCgH0KgAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKFFFFC/JjAEAgSSARgHYwZSBhIBWg BUBvZoggdGgT4CBiZQuAHGcgBaAIcAVAYXBwGm8LgHQHgAIwcywgjweQEbACMAcxbHkgE1B7G8Ad 4WkCIAdACoUdIGyaaR4wYwcwBjFyYRvxjwXAG/ADkRjxZC1oBvARBIFzOyALgCBtdSMRcBviIHNh B4Agd/phHoBhBCAgshtBFhAKhf8hUgmAG3ELIAQgIWEclSUkDSIxSwrAIwFpa29zwC4gIEhvcBtA G/DjBAAbAGVscB2wCoUKhtEBkSBHZQWwZyQ2CosRH/AxODAC0WktMTw0NA3wDNAr8wtZMTbXCqAD YBPQYwVALS4XCofXLMsMMC2WRgNhOi8eLZalKWNDG/B1bDLwZBYQancdwFQiwUcWECCgIAZPIcA0 MG5lW1NNQFRQOmpzbQMQbCZAB3AdADEuI4B1LvkJgHVdLr8vzQZgAjAw/80yC1cJgDSQc2QjUB3A nkQFkBPgHEAFwDA0HcAQMTk5NjvwMTo1mjcUsE02by/NVG84r70yC20TsSbBG3AEAHQ833E3fnVi ai3RPv8yC1vaTUDkXRSwMsByHoACEDUFwEgoMSEqHysjMza/LJcaRS2WRyAjYR5gLRrg2icbMWcb kRtgcQpQE8D/HxEg8gVASwAlADPxHmIf8L5rItEDcBtAHtAJgGIA0KprG7BuJ1BXJ+BsG0DzCoUF oG1wAxAcYkDQKaC9GPF0BRAb4AdxT9FlHcD/SwMcQAnwG1ACQBPgBTAcYvx0b0bQNUEiIk2TG8EK hTcisgJgAHBrJmMbYG513ztzG8EkESOASuBzJ6AgML0rwGMeUlFSHCBQkHlSh/8lkU2TCoVNkBzR G8JQ5UbTrSKydgrAHxB1BCBkA3DrC4AfEXNEAHccAEwiSoH2dyPSAhB1JNIdwB9mI4AnEbAlAFtQ d24dwXRj/i4nUDOgJ/En8RtgGzBGsf9QkU5AHoNWcgVARuIbYByhnwtQU6pWEluxSuAxKTOS8yPh W1BuJwVAEbAcEVLBqxxAHdBuCGBnIpBCCsD/AiAIkCORUtBLUCQBXQIiEP8EYBPAU71bViCAMwAh 4U0z3x5xNAAEoCTxG/FpBcBbV/8dwF3yHGJhkCKjEXEiMQqFfxvBT4EDgV1RTZBSslZxYfprHcB5 EcAjpWOvZLVOINtlSAqFalsgHjBmX/En4bknUEFucbJk0h2gPyiMtSdgQS3gdVb0TEInI5P5HDBp ZynwZrEeoQJgE+B7XwJToW4ecRuQIMIFoG7/O1AEoRr1J/FT9zQRI7RvAn9lk2SBS7AgABtJANAe MHb/IABcgSAAJ+BcMyFBZrFhf/0FgWENsB2xI4EnkB0gXiL/UsEishYQZrQislDSTDRQVr8RgAQg UcRmIydQCoVTVoueUAUQd3EmoIPhYWcKwP904W8CHGEecSCQT7BMsQQAvyexfzR+wSABTBFTyFYE APMcoQIwICgFsV9CBUAIUc0CMD9jIBvBU2szADMQ+wWwA6BQXgF+USWRG/EDoP8n4hxEHzAHgCUA G2AKhYPV9ihcACAgaB3AHEQDkXtB/xuyCfArwA3BHXJRURyQA5HPDbAHQHvDXvAuKXISdvT/TxYj gCMhCGA0UWSBTEMbwf5KBJBOIB8wFLFOII9xXADPZfIFEBswJaEuOSuAFLD+Q4qkYJGGI1P5TuAb MAMg/xvBh+Yd4YhjI0AjkjQRiRPtHeE/TYN78meQkoTpCoX/X8N6UU5AVxJcASPhdvRoVfdvBhsT QPFnHzAT0IJYCoX/cjEjQYqiclhOYSfEkjcdAd8WECAxnvMzoFTHZFrQd3FJJ1A6KSiMUFNK4Ez/ EcB04ZEBHdAbMCJBHhJME99NwQcwiAFMNIPVRR4wCfD/NJB04RYQdCAEoXC4UFaSNB8bE1bgWyCf AV7xKkdSok+sUEFBTqyhKqRwfigojEfvSP8tpQqFFTEAAbFAAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAH MCBGQ3dx4rsBQAAIMCBGQ3dx4rsBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAAAcA== - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE243.AF6F1700-- ------------------------------ From: sean@netidea.com (Sean Nicolson) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:38:26 -0800 Subject: [Mystara] Introduction & request for Blackmoor Info I've made a few posts on this mail-list before, but I haven't really introduced myself, so let me start there: I've been playing AD&D since '81, but only ran into Mystara about eight years ago, when a friend used some (heavily-modified) gazeteers for some of the border kingdoms surrounding his own India-based kingdom of Jehangir. Always interested in campaign material that my own players haven't seen, I picked up the gazeteers, Dawn of the Empires, Hollow World, Top Ballista, Princess Ark boxed set, & the Savage Coast online edition - all in the last year. I've played and run a lot of systems, mostly GURPS and Hero, but recently just AD&D because everybody understands it and my group has a nice set of house rules that work for us. I'm not familiar with OD&D at all. It doesn't seem like much trouble to convert, though sometime I'd like to look at OD&D's dominion and immortality rules. On the whole, I really like Mystara. For some reason the Hollow World doesn't grab me (which is odd, because I like Aaron Allston & that kind of pulp setting), and some of the Gazeteers are better then others, but the world is interesting, and is fleshed out way better then any other gameworld that I'm interested in. In short, it's my favourite published gameworld. One thing that really interests me that I haven't got yet is Blackmoor. I read the recent timeline for Blackmoor posted on this list, which refered to DA1 a lot. Does DA1 give you much a feel for what Blackmoor was like before the catastrophe? Does anything? I picture Blackmoor as a sort of Buck Rogers type setting, with high-level magic and pulp-fiction tech mixed. Does anyone have any suggestions as to further reading material? Thanks for your time, Sean Nicolson sean@netidea.com ------------------------------ From: rolfs@netway.at (Rolf) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 12:29:40 GMT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Introduction & request for Blackmoor Info On Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:38:26 -0800, you wrote: > > One thing that really interests me that I haven't got yet is = Blackmoor. I >read the recent timeline for Blackmoor posted on this list, which = refered to >DA1 a lot. Does DA1 give you much a feel for what Blackmoor was like = before >the catastrophe? Does anything? I picture Blackmoor as a sort of Buck = Rogers >type setting, with high-level magic and pulp-fiction tech mixed. Does = anyone >have any suggestions as to further reading material? > Pleaselet me know if you find something out. I=B4ve tried for years and couldn=B4t. <_< Rolf >_> Mail To: rolfs@netway.at ------------------------------ From: "Mulder Fox" Date: 6 Dec 1996 11:53:40 -0000 Subject: [Mystara] Tritons What is Tritons. I have never heard of it before. Could somebody please explain thanx. Andrew(Cybershot) Thanx again - --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:13:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Known World accessaries for sell. First of all, I just saw this post on rec.games.frp.marketplace, and thought people on here might be interested, I don't know the poster at all. Personally, I think the price is too high, but some people might like to get everything in one deal. If you don't think I should made this post, please send me an email and I wouldn't do it again (I don't remember whether the charter mention anything about this type of posting or not) - ---Attached Message--- Hello, all. I am finally getting out of RPGs after 18 years, and am looking to sell some of my old AD&D modules. Here, I have all my D&D Known World modules and accessories. All have any handouts or "extras" that came with them originally. All have been kept in magazine cover sleeves since they were opened. All are in excellent condition, with the exception of two maps in the Hollow World Boxed set, which are a little creased, and have tape on the corners. Modules available are: GAZ1 Grand Duchy of Karameikos GAZ2 Emirates of Ylaruam GAZ3 Principalities of Glantri GAZ4 Kingdom of Ierendi GAZ5 Dwarves of Rockhome GAZ6 Elves of Alfheim GAZ7 Northern Reaches GAZ8 Five Shires GAZ9 Minrothad Guilds GAZ10 Orcs of Thar GAZ11 Republic of Darokin GAZ12 Golden Khan of Ethengar GAZ13 Shadow Elves GAZ14 Atruaghin Clans DDA 1 Arena of Thyatis HWR1 Sons of Azca (Hollow World) HWR2 Kingdom of Nithia (Hollow World) AC1082 Wrath of the Immortals (Box) AC1037 Dawn of the Emperors (Box) AC1054 Hollow World (Box) AC1010 Poor Wizards Alamanac AC1011 Poor Wizards Alamanac II TM1 Trail Map- the Western Countries TM2 Trail Map- the Eastern Countries PC1 Tall Tales of the Wee Folk PC2 Top Ballista PC3 Sea People PC4 Night Howlers B1-9 In Search of Adventure Purchaser will pay postage(USPS). Right now, I am only selling these as a package, and am asking $300 plus postage(Note that this is, essentially, cover price). If I do not get any buyers( by, say, Dec 14th), then I might be willing to sell individual pieces, or (more likely) "Mini-packages" such as all the PC# modules plus B1-9 for $60. E-mail me at the below address, and thanks for your time. - -- \\|||// O^O jtwombat@diac.com ^^^ "Winterchilde" //|||\\ The two parties have decided to have a bi-partisan Christmas this year. Actually, they didn't have much choice - the Republicans didn't have three wise men, and the Democracts couldn't find a Virgin. - Jay Leno, the Tonight Show - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #298 ***************************** From ???@??? Thu Dec 12 09:25:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA14686; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 21:06:03 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA00654 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 03:22:20 -0600 Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 03:22:20 -0600 Message-Id: <199612100922.DAA00654@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #299 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 1672d62e5c769edf32097e1a75097ab4 Status: RO mystara-digest Tuesday, 10 December 1996 Volume 01 : Number 299 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Patrick Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:39:43 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Tritons >What is Tritons. I have never heard of it before. Could somebody please explain >thanx. Tritons are an underwater race similar in appearance to merrow. They are slightly larger and, IIRC, they are more brightly colored. Each Triton is a spellcaster-- a magic-user, a cleric, or a cleric-mage. Tritons are civilized, building cities and castles, whereas merrow tend to be semi-nomadic. Tritons are described in detail in PC3 The Secrets of the Sea People. There's also an entry in the Creature Catalog, but I don't know anywhere else, although I'd guess that the AD&D Monstrous Manual Mystara supplement would have them. Patrick ------------------------------ From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (Shawn) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 13:11:42 +1100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] request for Blackmoor Info > One thing that really interests me that I haven't got yet is Blackmoor. I >read the recent timeline for Blackmoor posted on this list, which refered to >DA1 a lot. Does DA1 give you much a feel for what Blackmoor was like before >the catastrophe? Does anything? I picture Blackmoor as a sort of Buck Rogers >type setting, with high-level magic and pulp-fiction tech mixed. Does anyone >have any suggestions as to further reading material? There's some Blackmoor information on my homepage. There is one file there at the moment and two more just waiting to go on. My homepage is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 Shawn Stanley I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran s9406058@student.anu.edu.au http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 19:00:23 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Introduction & request for Blackmoor Info On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Sean Nicolson wrote: > I've made a few posts on this mail-list before, but I haven't really > introduced myself, so let me start there: Welcome to the list! Good to have another Mystara-ite (?) on board. > One thing that really interests me that I haven't got yet is Blackmoor. I > read the recent timeline for Blackmoor posted on this list, which refered to > DA1 a lot. Does DA1 give you much a feel for what Blackmoor was like before > the catastrophe? Does anything? I picture Blackmoor as a sort of Buck Rogers > type setting, with high-level magic and pulp-fiction tech mixed. Does anyone > have any suggestions as to further reading material? DA1 (and the rest of the DA series) give a great overview of the Kingdom of Blackmoor and its surrounding area. The Blackmoor presented therein, however, is a feudal-type setting (moreso than the current Renaissance-era setting of the Known World). There really isn't a whole lot of technology at the time presented therein, with the exception of module DA3 (and to a lesser extent DA2) which takes the characters into an technological setting. Tech is treated more like strange magic than anything else (Hey, what's that? It shoots light beams, but it doesn't look like any Wand of Lightning Bolts I've ever seen?). For a more Buck Rogers type setting, I would suggest a later era than that presented in the modules- like one or two hundred years later to the time of the Great Rain of Fire- when the tech recovered from the CIty of the Gods would have become more ingrained in the culture of the area. My own feeling is that the tech that blew up Blackmoor wasn't merely scientific tech, but a combination of tech/magic (Magitech? Like in FF3 for SNES), but that's just my opinion. :) ------------------------------ From: Aron Reif Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 16:24:27 +0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Tritons At 08:39 PM 12/6/96 +0000, you wrote: >>What is Tritons. I have never heard of it before. Could somebody please explain >>thanx. >Tritons are an underwater race similar in appearance to merrow. They are >slightly larger and, IIRC, they are more brightly colored. Each Triton is a >spellcaster-- a magic-user, a cleric, or a cleric-mage. Tritons are >civilized, building cities and castles, whereas merrow tend to be >semi-nomadic. Tritons are described in detail in PC3 The Secrets of the Sea >People. There's also an entry in the Creature Catalog, but I don't know >anywhere else, although I'd guess that the AD&D Monstrous Manual Mystara >supplement would have them. >Patrick > > just so you don't get confused, an AD&D merrow is also known as an aquatic ogre, whereas an OD&D merrow is the same thing as a merman. Therefore, a Triton is similar to a merman (or mermaid, your choice...) Aron Reif areif@vt.edu ------------------------------ From: Gabriele Ferri Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 12:36:27 +-100 Subject: [Mystara] Dragons Is in Mystara any draconian civilization? I think that dragon popolation should be more developed. Just think: = dragons are a really really ancient race. Why they haven't founded = cities? Why they haven't any culture (books, legends) and almost no = social life? I think that there are lots of very good ideas. For = example: in Norwold there is are some mountains (I cannot remeber the = name) where a large number of dragons lives. How do they find enough = food? Hunting? mmmmmh.... a dragon requires LOTS of food. So they = probably need a social organization. So, who rules down there? What are = the laws? Another example: there are four immortal dragons. Who worship them? = Dragons! So, it means that there must be dragon-clerics. What does a = dragon-cleric believe? Dragons can also cast spells in a different way than humans. Where can a = dragon learn magic? A Draconian School of Magic? Where? What about a=20 not-yet-discovered part of Norwold? Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it ------------------------------ From: Kjell Stephansen Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 19:02:29 +-100 Subject: SV: [Mystara] Dragons - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE605.01C60440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable G.F. Wrote: Is in Mystara any draconian civilization? I think that dragon popolation should be more developed. Just think: = dragons are a really really ancient race. Why they haven't founded = cities? Why they haven't any culture (books, legends) and almost no = social life? I think that there are lots of very good ideas. For = example: in Norwold there is are some mountains (I cannot remeber the = name) where a large number of dragons lives. How do they find enough = food? Hunting? mmmmmh.... a dragon requires LOTS of food. So they = probably need a social organization. So, who rules down there? What are = the laws? Another example: there are four immortal dragons. Who worship them? = Dragons! So, it means that there must be dragon-clerics. What does a = dragon-cleric believe? Dragons can also cast spells in a different way than humans. Where can a = dragon learn magic? A Draconian School of Magic? Where? What about a=20 not-yet-discovered part of Norwold? Hey...... Draconians.... In mystara.... thats a quite nice idea! What is the stat for a Draconian.... Is it like the Half-dragons in the = MM Annual 2? Or are they like big Gator men or Shazaks/Lizardmen........ Oh... I Forgot to introduce myself.... I am Tarjeh.. Kjell Stephansen is the guy who made me. I have been role-playing for only three years, a rookie after your = criterias.... and i'm just 17.... I'm from Norway, and I like = whales.........for dinner. I started with the Karameikos (First Quest) = but now I'm running a Red Steel/Savage Coast Campaign and a Dark Jungle = Campaign..... (The Orcs Head Peninsula).... 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There are, as yet, no fully developed dragon civilizations, but there are many dragon kingdoms, as explained in the articles on dragons in Dragon Magazine #170-171, by Bruce Heard. > I think that dragon popolation should be more developed. Just think: > dragons are a really really ancient race. Why they haven't founded > cities? Why they haven't any culture (books, legends) and almost no > social life? I can think of a few very good reasons for this: One, dragons do not possess hands like humanoids- their 'hands' are very large talons, and thus would likely not be suitable for building, etc. Another is their huge size: Dragons would have to build tremendous structures in order to live in them, and it doesn't seem worth the effort, IMO. Just find a nearby cave and spruce it up a bit. More to come... ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 16:37:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons Have you read the Dragonlord Trilogy? It touched upon some of your questions. John Yu ------------------------------ From: Mischa E Gelman Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 16:12:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons > Is in Mystara any draconian civilization? I think that dragon > popolation should be more developed. Just think: dragons are a really > really ancient race. Why they haven't founded cities? Why they haven't > any culture (books, legends) and almost no social life? Well, a few reasons come to my mind. First of all, they are a very solitary race, being self-absorbed and greedy. They spend their time hording valuables much more than any other race. The only other dragons they would trust IMO would be their mate and offspring, except for gold dragons, which seem social somewhat. Second, they are powerful enough that they are not forced to form communities. A reason behind many communities forming is survival. This reason does not exist for dragons in most circumstances. Yes, they are long-lived, but the longer-lived races seem to take life more leisurely in most fantasy worlds. Elves and dwarves have much more time to do things and so aren't in a rush, like humans. They don't feel the need to be doing something constantly. > dragons lives. How do they find enough food? Hunting? mmmmmh.... a > dragon requires LOTS of food. So they probably need a social > organization. So, who rules down there? What are the laws? Another > example: there are four immortal dragons. Who worship them? Dragons! So, > it means that there must be dragon-clerics. What does a dragon-cleric > believe? Dragons can also cast spells in a different way than humans. > Where can a dragon learn magic? A Draconian School of Magic? Where? What > about a not-yet-discovered part of Norwold? Well, if you want to develop what a draconic culture would think like, I certainly would like to hear it. Prove me wrong. Show that dragons would have a culture which wouldn't be unbalancing, which would be consistent with past information on them and which would be fun to RP in. Heck, maybe it can become as developed as the M-Orient people have worked on in the list. Soon, Starscream, soon, Scrapper's invention will generate the power to destroy the Autobots once and for all -Megs Excuse me, but I think your boast sounds vaguely familiar -Starscream ------------------------------ From: Peter Balazs Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 00:51:28 +0100 Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] Dragons >Attachment Converted: C:\ONLINE\SVMyst10 Hi! PLEASE; PLEASE; PLEASE; ..... etc. Stop attaching this file,please, I have received it now the tenth time! Thanks, *************************************************************************** Peter Balazs (a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at) http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Patrick Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 00:20:13 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons At 08:48 PM 12/9/96 +0000, you wrote: >On Mon, 9 Dec 1996, Gabriele Ferri wrote: > >> Is in Mystara any draconian civilization? > >There are, as yet, no fully developed dragon civilizations, but there are >many dragon kingdoms, as explained in the articles on dragons in Dragon >Magazine #170-171, by Bruce Heard. Actually, the Dragonlord books detail the Mystaran dragon capital, the secret city of Windreach in Norwold. This is THE place for civilized dragons, though rogue dragons are banished. It's a giant city built up in a large mountain with a crater to look like the snowcapped peak of the mountain. You might want to check these books out. Patrick ------------------------------ From: StarHawk Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 20:45:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] Orc's head > I have been role-playing for only three years, a rookie after your criterias.... and i'm just 17.... I'm from Norway, and I like whales.........for dinner. I started with the Karameikos (First Quest) but now > I'm running a Red Steel/Savage Coast Campaign and a Dark Jungle > Campaign..... (The Orcs Head Peninsula).... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Does MPGN have this thing yet? I was under the impression it was supposed to be out sometime this month. Any word on it? ------------------------------ From: Kaviyd@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 01:19:27 -0500 Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] Orc's head In a message dated 96-12-09 23:24:48 EST, starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu (StarHawk) writes: << Does MPGN have this thing yet? I was under the impression it was supposed to be out sometime this month. Any word on it? >> Well, AOL has had the Orc's Head supplement out for over a week, so all that is left to do is upload it to the other site. ------------------------------ From: Anias Pasi Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:55:13 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons Cthulhudrew wrote: > > I think that dragon popolation should be more developed. Just think: > > dragons are a really really ancient race. Why they haven't founded > > cities? Why they haven't any culture (books, legends) and almost no > > social life? > I can think of a few very good reasons for this: One, dragons do not > possess hands like humanoids- their 'hands' are very large talons, and > thus would likely not be suitable for building, etc. > Another is their huge size: Dragons would have to build tremendous > structures in order to live in them, and it doesn't seem worth the > effort, IMO. Just find a nearby cave and spruce it up a bit. I can just picture an old ant-soldier speaking to a younger one of our prehistoric forefathers: I can think a few reasons for the fact that humans dont have cities: one, They dont have the many legs and strong backs suitable to building etc. they only have those pudgy soft flaps with five strange fingers... Another is their huge dize: Humans would have to build tremendous structures in order to live in them, and it doesn't seem worth the effort, IMO. Just find a nearby cave and spruce it up a bit. Well. Seriously. I rather liked the Draconic society pictured in the Dragonlord trilogy. The society was balanced and imo possible for dracvonic creatures. Though I would be inclined to think that by AC1000 the society has grown smaller, and the number of renegades greater, due to increase of human population as well as the raise of the evil dragongods hinted at the end of the trilogy. Also it goes well with the dragonrealms idea of the dragon magazine... Also seriously :) Think further of that ant-thing. The truth is IMHO that the humans truly are much like the ant of that story. Small creatures who think themselves superior to the dragons, regardles of dragons' physical and mental advantages. The dragons ARE smarter than us. They are stronger than us. And they have more magic than us. Only advantage for us is that we are more in numbers and faster to reproduce. Much like the ants... So beware! Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.931-2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 23:52:51 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons On Tue, 10 Dec 1996, Patrick wrote: > Actually, the Dragonlord books detail the Mystaran dragon capital, the > secret city of Windreach in Norwold. This is THE place for civilized > dragons, though rogue dragons are banished. It's a giant city built up in a > large mountain with a crater to look like the snowcapped peak of the > mountain. You might want to check these books out. I have read the first two books in the series, and am planning on picking up the third, but for the most part, I tend to ignore the presentation of the Dragon city depicted in Dragonmage of Mystara. Just a personal preference, but if one were to plan some sort of dragon city, yes, these novels would be good to read. My main gripe with the whole thing is primarily that dragon anatomy doesn't lend itself well to human-type settings. They cannot sit like humans, due to the anatomy of their hind legs. They cannot (admittedly, arguably) use their foreclaws with the same dexterity as humans. Their tails present an enormous difficulty maneuvering in human-like dwellings (not to mention their wings). They wouldn't eat like humans, sitting at a table using utensils, etc (IMO, YMMV of course). I just find the idea of a dragon city or house to be rather silly. Dragons don't need shelter as much as humans, nor do they need to make use of tools to tame their environment, as humans do. My idea of houses, cities, etc., is that they are a human/humanoid/demihuman development, in order to accomodate needs for those types of people, and that dragons do not have the same sort of needs. Additionally, dragons are far, far older than humans/etc., and would then have predated such concepts as 'civilization'- and I don't think they would be likely to pick up on the less civilized (in the dragons' minds) creatures habits. Furthermore, as one other poster pointed out- dragons are not generally sociable creatures; humans and their ilk are. I think perhaps this is the best argument against dragon type cities, etc. I'm not saying there can't be any sorts of dragon 'cities', but I don't think they would be anything like human cities at all. I'm not sure what they would be like, but I'd imagine them to be something strange and unusual. ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 00:36:16 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mystara] A new Forsetta note! UPDATE!!! IMPORTANT NEWS TO FOLLOW!!!! Got your attention yet? ;) Anyway, if anyone is interested, after doing some recent study into Norse mythology, I found ou;that there was a god by the name of Forseti, who was the son of Balder and Nanna. Apparently, he was the God of Justice. Probably where the designers for module X3 got the idea of Forsetta. Anyway, given this info, I'd probably update him to a part of the Northern Reaches pantheon, rather than (as I had him) just on friendly terms with them. Could be that he was the son of a human and one of the Aesir or Vanir in his mortal life (if you wanted to incorporate the Balder bit). Just keeping you all updated on things! ;) ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #299 ***************************** mystara-digest Wednesday, 11 December 1996 Volume 01 : Number 300 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kjell Stephansen Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 13:47:03 +-100 Subject: [Mystara] The Orc's Head? Oh...... The Orc's Head Campaign.... I've just started it.... From no books.... = just improvised.... I can write down what I'm using and send it to those = who want it. Just say so.....=20 What is the current adress of the MPGN-Net? Thanx Tarjeh ------------------------------ From: Robert Kaelin Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:40:08 -0400 Subject: [Mystara] Possible Blackmoor Info and Tomb of Horrors! >For a more Buck Rogers type setting, I would suggest a later era than >that presented in the modules- like one or two hundred years later to the >time of the Great Rain of Fire- when the tech recovered from the CIty of >the Gods would have become more ingrained in the culture of the area. > >My own feeling is that the tech that blew up Blackmoor wasn't merely >scientific tech, but a combination of tech/magic (Magitech? Like in FF3 >for SNES), but that's just my opinion. :) This is an excellent idea. (I hadn't thought of going back in time and running a technology/magic campaign.) I saw this on TSR's web page's list of '97's products and thought it might help out. I don't know if this is going to be going i the Magitech direction, but it sounds like a good start. At least from this description it seems to be fairly setting-independent, so with some luck it'll be easy to make it into some version of Blackmoor. (I'm not an expert on Blackmoor's timeline so I won't make a guess as to when it'll fit in, but it may be worth looking at if you're really interested.) - -- 1143 Tale of the Comet AD&D(R) ODYSSEY(TM) Series! Magic and technology clash in this laser-swords-and-sorcery epic adventure! More than just an adventure, this boxed set presents an entire enclosed setting-including rules for advanced technology in the AD&D game! It can be dropped into an existing campaign, or form the cornerstone of a setting all its own. Campaign Expansion By Thomas M. Reid Ship Month: February On Sale Date: March Suggested Retail Price: $30.00; CAN $40.00; 18.50 U.K. ISBN 0-7869-0653-7 Format: 9" x 11" x 1" box; three 8 3/8" x 10 3/4" booklets-64/64/32, saddle-stitched, color illustrations; two map sheets; eight cards Case Pack/Weight: 12/10 lbs. Age Level: 10+ Target Audience: Novice through advanced Dungeon Masters - -- Also, for all D&D geezers like myself, you may be interested to know that Tome of Horros is going to be redone and redetailed in a new adventure. - -- 1162 Return to the Tomb of Horrors An AD&D TOMES(TM) Series entry! Tomb of Horrors is widely recognized as the most challenging AD&D(R) adventure ever published, and it's one of the most popular! Its traps and tricks have baffled thousands upon thousands of players. This all-new adventure revisits one of the most famous AD&D game locations. And as an added bonus, it includes a reprint of the original Tomb of Horrors adventure! Deluxe Adventure By Bruce R. Cordell Ship Month: July On Sale Date: August Suggested Retail Price: $30.00; CAN $40.00; 18.50 U.K. ISBN 0-7869-0732-0 Format: 9" x 111/2" x 1" box; four 8 3/8" x 10 3/4" and one 5 3/8" x 8 3/8" booklets-160/32/32/8/16 pages; card sheet; screen; handouts Case Pack/Weight: 12/12 lbs. Age Level: 10+ Target Audience: Novice through advanced Dungeon Masters Hope this helps, - -Bob - ------------------------------------------------ Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence Software Developer 725 Concord Ave. (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138 Kaelin@natural.com ------------------------------ From: Opul Yiki Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:17:52 -0500 Subject: RE: SV: [Mystara] Orc's head I downloaded the Orc's head product right before a canned them (line was ALWAYS busy) anyway the cover art is excellent (I don't think it's recycled) and all the maps looked excellent as well. Haven't had a chance to read the text but anyone who likes the Savage Coast setting should get a hold of this. - ---------- From: Kaviyd@aol.com[SMTP:Kaviyd@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 1996 1:19 AM To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] Orc's head In a message dated 96-12-09 23:24:48 EST, starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu (StarHawk) writes: << Does MPGN have this thing yet? I was under the impression it was supposed to be out sometime this month. Any word on it? >> Well, AOL has had the Orc's Head supplement out for over a week, so all that is left to do is upload it to the other site. ------------------------------ From: Deathwatch Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:26:17 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons At 12:36 9-12-96 +-100, you wrote: >Is in Mystara any draconian civilization? >I think that dragon popolation should be more developed. Just think: dragons are a really really ancient race. Why they haven't founded cities? Why they haven't any culture (books, legends) and almost no social life? I think that there are lots of very good ideas. For example: in Norwold there is are some mountains (I cannot remeber the name) where a large number of dragons lives. How do they find enough food? Hunting? mmmmmh.... a dragon requires LOTS of food. So they probably need a social organization. So, who rules down there? What are the laws? >Another example: there are four immortal dragons. Who worship them? Dragons! So, it means that there must be dragon-clerics. What does a dragon-cleric believe? >Dragons can also cast spells in a different way than humans. Where can a dragon learn magic? A Draconian School of Magic? Where? What about a >not-yet-discovered part of Norwold? > >Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it I think that a lot of those questions can be (partially) solved with the Council of Wyrms box. It contains a lot of info about Dragons. But not all. I don't know about the rest. ------------------------------ From: "Ryan J. Law" Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:32:53 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons Anias Pasi wrote: > > Cthulhudrew wrote: > > > > I think that dragon popolation should be more developed. Just think: > > > dragons are a really really ancient race. Why they haven't founded > > > cities? Why they haven't any culture (books, legends) and almost no > > > social life? > > > I can think of a few very good reasons for this: One, dragons do not > > possess hands like humanoids- their 'hands' are very large talons, and > > thus would likely not be suitable for building, etc. > > Another is their huge size: Dragons would have to build tremendous > > structures in order to live in them, and it doesn't seem worth the > > effort, IMO. Just find a nearby cave and spruce it up a bit. > > I can just picture an old ant-soldier speaking to a younger > one of our prehistoric forefathers: > > I can think a few reasons for the fact that humans dont have cities: > one, They dont have the many legs and strong backs suitable to building > etc. they only have those pudgy soft flaps with five strange fingers... > Another is their huge dize: Humans would have to build tremendous > structures in order to live in them, and it doesn't seem worth the > effort, IMO. Just find a nearby cave and spruce it up a bit. Well actually TSR has produced a dragon society for gaming.. it was the Councle of The Wyrms in it players could take on Dragons, Half-Dragons, or a special type of servant demi-human. but it is about how a dragon society runs in the 2nd AD&D Game. I personally thnk that Dragons were shoot down in it and barly given the raw Power they deserve... but that is from a dragon lover... 8p - -Ryan J Law ------------------------------ From: "Ryan J. Law" Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:44:19 -0800 Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] Dragons Kjell Stephansen wrote: > > G.F. Wrote: > > Is in Mystara any draconian civilization? If you wanted to you could use the Councle of The Wrym setting (it is a set of islands that has been controlled by Dragons for a long LONG time. > I think that dragon popolation should be more developed. Just think: dragons are a > really really ancient race. Why they haven't founded cities? Why they haven' > Another example: there are four immortal dragons. Who worship them? Dragons! So, it > means that there must be dragon-clerics. What does a dragon-cleric believe? > Dragons can also cast spells in a different way than humans. Where can a dragon learn > magic? A Draconian School of Magic? Where? What about a > not-yet-discovered part of Norwold? Read the boxed set it gives you all this info... > > Hey...... Draconians.... In mystara.... thats a quite nice idea! > What is the stat for a Draconian.... Is it like the Half-dragons in the MM Annual 2? > Or are they like big Gator men or Shazaks/Lizardmen........ You would have probobally have to buy some things in Draonlance... as far as I know they are only located in that setting... it is the only place the evil dragons actually played around with Dragon Gense. ------------------------------ From: "George E. Hrabovsky" Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:55:12 -0600 Subject: RE: [Mystara] Possible Blackmoor Info and Tomb of Horrors! - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE691.0D69BB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Indeed, in my own campaign I have a similar thing called Technomagic. This is loosely based on the Rifts material, blended with the Blackmoor supplements. George - ---------- From: Robert Kaelin[SMTP:kaelin@natural.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 1996 7:40 AM To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: [Mystara] Possible Blackmoor Info and Tomb of Horrors! >For a more Buck Rogers type setting, I would suggest a later era than >that presented in the modules- like one or two hundred years later to the >time of the Great Rain of Fire- when the tech recovered from the CIty of >the Gods would have become more ingrained in the culture of the area. > >My own feeling is that the tech that blew up Blackmoor wasn't merely >scientific tech, but a combination of tech/magic (Magitech? Like in FF3 >for SNES), but that's just my opinion. :) This is an excellent idea. (I hadn't thought of going back in time and running a technology/magic campaign.) I saw this on TSR's web page's list of '97's products and thought it might help out. I don't know if this is going to be going i the Magitech direction, but it sounds like a good start. At least from this description it seems to be fairly setting-independent, so with some luck it'll be easy to make it into some version of Blackmoor. (I'm not an expert on Blackmoor's timeline so I won't make a guess as to when it'll fit in, but it may be worth looking at if you're really interested.) - -- 1143 Tale of the Comet AD&D(R) ODYSSEY(TM) Series! Magic and technology clash in this laser-swords-and-sorcery epic adventure! More than just an adventure, this boxed set presents an entire enclosed setting-including rules for advanced technology in the AD&D game! It can be dropped into an existing campaign, or form the cornerstone of a setting all its own. Campaign Expansion By Thomas M. Reid Ship Month: February On Sale Date: March Suggested Retail Price: $30.00; CAN $40.00; 18.50 U.K. ISBN 0-7869-0653-7 Format: 9" x 11" x 1" box; three 8 3/8" x 10 3/4" booklets-64/64/32, saddle-stitched, color illustrations; two map sheets; eight cards Case Pack/Weight: 12/10 lbs. Age Level: 10+ Target Audience: Novice through advanced Dungeon Masters - -- Also, for all D&D geezers like myself, you may be interested to know that Tome of Horros is going to be redone and redetailed in a new adventure. - -- 1162 Return to the Tomb of Horrors An AD&D TOMES(TM) Series entry! Tomb of Horrors is widely recognized as the most challenging AD&D(R) adventure ever published, and it's one of the most popular! Its traps and tricks have baffled thousands upon thousands of players. This all-new adventure revisits one of the most famous AD&D game locations. And as an added bonus, it includes a reprint of the original Tomb of Horrors adventure! Deluxe Adventure By Bruce R. Cordell Ship Month: July On Sale Date: August Suggested Retail Price: $30.00; CAN $40.00; 18.50 U.K. ISBN 0-7869-0732-0 Format: 9" x 111/2" x 1" box; four 8 3/8" x 10 3/4" and one 5 3/8" x 8 3/8" booklets-160/32/32/8/16 pages; card sheet; screen; handouts Case Pack/Weight: 12/12 lbs. Age Level: 10+ Target Audience: Novice through advanced Dungeon Masters Hope this helps, - -Bob - ------------------------------------------------ Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence Software Developer 725 Concord Ave. (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138 Kaelin@natural.com - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE691.0D69BB20 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiMRAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAFNNVFAAbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABEAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYA AAAeAAEwAQAAABMAAAAnbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAFgAAAFNNVFA6TVlTVEFS QS1MQElPLkNPTQAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAD0CwBCIAHABgAAABJ UE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAOwAAAFJFOiBbTXlzdGFyYV0gUG9zc2libGUg QmxhY2ttb29yIEluZm8gYW5kIFRvbWIgb2YgSG9ycm9ycyEAexQBBYADAA4AAADMBwwACgALADcA DAACADkBASCAAwAOAAAAzAcMAAoACwA1AC0AAgBYAQEJgAEAIQAAADJDNEI5MjJEODM1MkQwMTE5 QzgyNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwALwGAQOQBgB0CwAAEAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMA NgAAAAAAQAA5AKDjl0rD5rsBHgBwAAEAAAA7AAAAUkU6IFtNeXN0YXJhXSBQb3NzaWJsZSBCbGFj a21vb3IgSW5mbyBhbmQgVG9tYiBvZiBIb3Jyb3JzIQAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbvmw0qHLZJLLVKD EdCcgkRFU1QAAAAAAwAGEBAKU6QDAAcQtgoAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAElOREVFRCxJTk1ZT1dOQ0FN From ???@??? Fri Dec 13 12:45:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA20609; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:46:05 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA19188 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 21:00:09 -0600 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 21:00:09 -0600 Message-Id: <199612120300.VAA19188@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #300 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 5687a72200404f8f3ec4fb3f3dec37d9 UEFJR05JSEFWRUFTSU1JTEFSVEhJTkdDQUxMRURURUNITk9NQUdJQ1RISVNJU0xPT1NFTFlCQVNF RE9OVEhFUklGVFNNQVRFUklBTCxCTEVOREUAAAAAAgEJEAEAAAAKCgAABgoAAMkRAABMWkZ1AyMG R/8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMzdwLk BxMCgH0KgAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKFFHFC/JjAEAgSW4NsAmABCwgC4Ag bXkgbyJ3A6BjYW0KsGlnCQOgSSARgHZlIGGaIACQbQMQCsF0aAuAkmccAWxsCYAgVAWQhGhuA3Fn aWMuCoVeVB3ABCAf0RWgbxGwbPkbsGJhEbAeYAIgHaEc8PpSBpB0BCAAwBPQByIbUH8CYAnwDbAe YAPwHbAhM0I5C2BjawRgBbAKhXN1/nALUBPgCfAhsB82CoYBkcggR2UFsGdlJV0LAyBsaTE4MALR aS14MTQ0DfAM0CjDC1kxrjYKoANgE9BjBUAtKuevCocpmwwwKmZGA2E6K+43KmYmMwgAYgSQBUBL YQMgcAuAW1NNVFA6cmswI0BuIfAIcAdALvkFoG1dK48snQZgAjAtz4Uu21QKUHNkYXkbUG5EBZAT 4C/BIBkwG1AxwDk5NiA3OijgFLDmTTIPLJ1UbzRPLtsboAMTwArAYS1sQGlvxzGyOE8zHnViaiqh Om+JLttbTTxUXSBQIFD/AJAigSOIGuECEB0AGwA6MeMG0BvAZiBIBbADYBGg5iEm7yfzMzYpZxpF KmZ8PkYFsR0QBGAWECOAdZ8jwAfxJsARoB2geXAc8F0RsXQd0RtQHKB3CGBs+x5gJJBnJsATwB0B C2AiAb4gBJAdEB2wAHAKhT5MEf8FQBNQB5AlAR5RG3EhQgRhy0qQB5AtICBpaxzwAiBvTvEdkUpw HLB1GwAWESDseWURkUtldEOQIUFMV7cHcUQyIUJHFhBM8VILcdlEMkZpFhBOoHchUCEk/yqRIzAW EAWgHOBQAgNSITP8Q0lJcEQxTFhSgQRwBCD/SnQcwy/AMcFOEkiBHdExgPsLgE2YY0qQMWFSFwrA UFDdHzY+TFZBoBvDZgngMEH/HfAf0UzTVDdM0yKBB+AkoOVCuXcgwG4nBUAHgBYQ/yCATFYE8AiQ AjAGkB8QVGPtImF1SzIxwWILgCHwPOCLUzNUci8e4yAoTR7xMVRyPyBMTtIbcUZGDjNMVgIQBcBT TkVTlilh5EzSJwQganVLIQ0bonALgGLhLiA6KeclXB+2A5FleDbQHjECMLcbYA2wWxAgY/AcomRf 0jMdsAhgZ2gFQERBZ29/HdIgsEjRTcJR8kOxCoVyP0/QAwAd4UvxHpMVoGd5m2OVHBYuaG0coHNh B+BHHbEEICERVFNSZxF3/mUmYAqwJsBnESggSyFEQfgnOTdnESphTlAqsGmy/x5ga7YjEBuQHGBs AAqFIVC2bF7gCGB0auEcoGQCIP1f4WsewAfgBpBxtB/RbGR3UQEvwGxVaSEzZBYKhWTfU5EqsGLh YeR1gXMIYBsA/3MyTuEdEGxgBHAdIDxxduD9JVxBBUAeQCDABUBVZR/R3w2wBPRi4nwCCeBtSVF5 E9pmC3ByIIFJxS0LgA2w90mQGwECMCwkJkOQIwN8MP9SAQpAbOJnAB4weSJ+4Ruw/1EBAMBk0mqB AjBDkIQjVQHfAJBi9COXHzZrECdVkB7A/0sxaeJJkC/hIREjl2cRUeL/MEFJoUOQSlJf04XifPE2 Mf9psYECCoVT44TEKJCGMnunfwDAIJEc8EpwACAjMCAxa9duc2qBRFB5CGAnSIFSsd8eMGBmhlFV ERPBZHBuK2f1CoUxKMAzHnAHQFIXCFADB4B19kFEJkQoUgApIE9EWVNTRXBZKFRNlwAGYgeQIb96 E2GAdMNu5xwAC2BzIzDfTcMEAAqFmcEEkC0D4AWwvVdALUOxm0AFsDbQchuw+4KgmJJkHOACMFox mEFIcn9MEmc0A5Gc1xtQmkkG4Hj/HlERsU0WmnZp0mExSIEJ8N+ZsCBRoEOCJZmwdXsQHeH/bjBO cVVQSBKc4ABwNtCY6/9NxJY5bFAcIJ1RVgAcAQOg/3kxT/BnwEmQTaJRAWnTc2H/HdQcNBtQBbFl 4VWTCoUFod9PIBGgUQBPIkRQYSQmSdS/HQCE8SMQcfEb4B82Qxwm3kWJgAByAiAKhUIbsB+wywNx BCBNaDBSZWqgCoVeUx3AXuCdgAIwaD+wRu9ysG4wCsBgZk8DoAYQQpH+RCHxP7BkEJwgepY/QErz 7x5RsLABkAMRUAUQNtA/sFAkMzAuKGA7VeBBnk62ICjgtmMoQC41OACIVS5LHzZJU0K20AAwLTc4 NjktMPg2NTO44AqFSAEh4T+w8DkiIHiUwbqjuqCgAQe2kB2wCdEgOCAzL+44uqM4ALxANLtSkDAe QCEhsC02NC+9wTMyu4Mna1BkHkCbQEnwdBFwfxsyFYMbYB4wZ1ExgGLSc/+7oU+RAMBe4JngCeAh sLaQ/7DAa/IcEJuBrecRsEIgI7GML1fCIz+wMTIvvLG0bGIlN0EmwGSgZRzg8mzEQTArH0YKwCbA BUDuQaOBojGzwU5U8LXhu7L7a9KkeERP0CbAIRFkEBPB9xGgkv993Gx8MBtQpEOE8Xumowngekky TsM8QSBwZv8bUJDxjzaSOFDyd6NM0h9G/1hSREZ4XxYRTxJDshYRtWP/TZQdEE8gB+Cc1yVNk98q MP8R4LVRCHAhIVETQ+5+NgOg8aaTVE9NZkCXmaGynFD/mEBD/R/yA/ANsCCBVMIccP5pzXAeYIzi UUcEYEshEXH/akIfAB3hlqac10vAVQFNEP8/UHNRv4NDsoTBcfJSF98i/QqFcGfASpAKwKciSVEx gLZwdKW10WsEIFfUYQ3Q/x5Ca7JxgHxiJKAhE+cWVke/C1FQQBGgaDAfsx4hLdS7/1Sxx/AAkK1y 4vyBcQRgZ1D7poiahm8cEMCzaDDaAG2274zhnnMiwgbgbmdQG1GGMv+jYgeRHRAWEBNQhlFSJgWw /xxgYqEDINivoUSc5wqFNrDfCkCgIBSwnOaveEJuMMgRflJoMAhQCyBqMbD/P7BK/0qQsp+zo8cw jIDjt7S/tc/3tt+377j0N74guTC5r7qz+DEvMrsKDsAIcLwfQ6N9TxI1vDYDJJ+XvVUqMDD7vhEG 0jjEgDewcuLA8cKC/8GU/XB/8RaB/XBMIXdAYhD/ws/D2xHgxM/F38bvx//JD3/KH0RwSZFxw3Zy 8GDVnUL/L7DVnhUvFj8XCq92L7AwBftq8BkpTjFUQ1FLkB4wHGD/DmL4BkRAT4Ba4TahDMESIfP5 wBkiNzIEsJXgokCbcUd+kOZAiDc2MTeXADj0Nza44DYoULqwxGC5YH8ZIa5RskBqoAxxZBBq4DDw MjEzOD1FMBQxOhkjAjxsAHRwOi8vd/0jgC4xSVumJI9FL0Y/R0kVPUV9PUAAKYAAAAMAEBAAAAAA AwAREAEAAABAAAcw4OXFFsPmuwFAAAgw4OXFFsPmuwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAFgi - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE691.0D69BB20-- ------------------------------ From: sean@netidea.com (Sean Nicolson) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 16:47:08 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Possible Blackmoor Info and Tomb of Horrors! Robert Kaelin wrote: >I saw this on TSR's web page's list of '97's products and thought it might >help out. > > >1143 Tale of the Comet >AD&D(R) ODYSSEY(TM) Series! Magic and technology clash in this >laser-swords-and-sorcery epic adventure! More than just an adventure, this >boxed set presents >an entire enclosed setting-including rules for advanced technology in the >AD&D game! It can be dropped into an existing campaign, or form the >cornerstone of a >setting all its own. >Campaign Expansion >By Thomas M. Reid >Ship Month: February >On Sale Date: March >Suggested Retail Price: $30.00; CAN $40.00; 18.50 U.K. >ISBN 0-7869-0653-7 >Format: 9" x 11" x 1" box; three 8 3/8" x 10 3/4" booklets-64/64/32, >saddle-stitched, color illustrations; two map sheets; eight cards >Case Pack/Weight: 12/10 lbs. >Age Level: 10+ >Target Audience: Novice through advanced Dungeon Masters I was looking at this. Mixed with some of the Arcane age stuff (for 10th+ level spells - though I'll be careful about using that), and with a healthy dose of my own creativity, it might be just the thing to create a late-era Blackmoor. Sean Nicolson sean@netidea.com ------------------------------ From: sean@netidea.com (Sean Nicolson) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 17:22:46 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mystara] request for Blackmoor Info >There's some Blackmoor information on my homepage. There is one file there >at the moment and two more just waiting to go on. My homepage is at >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 > I've checked out your page & it's in my list of bookmarks. The info you have is post-catastrophe, and I'm looking for pre-catastrophe, but I'll keep my eyes open for the next two files. Thanks, Sean Nicolson sean@netidea.com ------------------------------ From: Enrique Pacheco Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 12:06:01 -0600 Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] Orc's head Escuse me, how do I get the Orc's Head supplement if I'm not on AoL - -- "Too much lov will kill you in the end..." Too much love will kill you. Queen, 1995. Enrique Pacheco. Email: pach@mail.geocities.com ------------------------------ From: rolfs@netway.at (Rolf) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 11:41:23 GMT Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] Orc's head On Tue, 10 Dec 1996 12:06:01 -0600, you wrote: >Escuse me, how do I get the Orc's Head supplement if I'm not on AoL >--=20 >"Too much lov will kill you >in the end..." >Too much love will kill you. Queen, 1995. >Enrique Pacheco. Email: pach@mail.geocities.com > Please let me know if you find out. <_< Rolf >_> Mail To: rolfs@netway.at ------------------------------ From: Max Wilcox Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 00:12:49 +1100 Subject: [Mystara] Hello all & Blackmoor Info Hi All, I'm new to the list, so howdy all. I'm from Australia, and have been playing in Mystara for about 12 years now. I stopped playing for a bit, and have just recently started playing in Mystara again. I'm quite surprised by the changes that have gone on since I've been away. It's changed to AD&D, all of the re-ordering that has gone on in the timeline etc. Not only that, but the whole line has been cancled. What a darn shame. I'd be very happy to keep it going with personal contributions to the world - though I will have to get back up to date with what's been hapening in the world recently, first. I believe that it may be a very good thing for Mystara to be transported from T$R's clutches to the internet - a fresh breath into the world. I've got -almost- all of the origional D&D moduals in Mystara, and consequently, have all of the Blackmoor ones, except the last one. If there's any info that's needed regarding these, I'd be happy to provide. Anyway, I hope to be chatting way with you all soon about my favorite D&D setting... - -Max Wilcox ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:11:15 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons On Tue, 10 Dec 1996, Anias Pasi wrote: > I can just picture an old ant-soldier speaking to a younger > one of our prehistoric forefathers: > > I can think a few reasons for the fact that humans dont have cities: > one, They dont have the many legs and strong backs suitable to building > etc. they only have those pudgy soft flaps with five strange fingers... > Another is their huge dize: Humans would have to build tremendous > structures in order to live in them, and it doesn't seem worth the > effort, IMO. Just find a nearby cave and spruce it up a bit. To be perfectly fair, nomadic hunter-gatherers live a much more energy efficient lifestyle than sedentary agriculturalists like ourselves. It probably would be much more efficient for us to just live in caves, but, of course, we couldn't be having this conversation anyway. ;) Point well made, and taken. :) > Well. Seriously. I rather liked the Draconic society pictured > in the Dragonlord trilogy. The society was balanced and imo > possible for dracvonic creatures. Though I would be inclined > to think that by AC1000 the society has grown smaller, and the > number of renegades greater, due to increase of human population > as well as the raise of the evil dragongods hinted at the end > of the trilogy. > Also it goes well with the dragonrealms idea of the dragon magazine... I guess my biggest gripe is that I don't like anthropomorphizing dragons as much as they did in that trilogy. I like to envision their evolution taking a different path from that of humans, if only because I think that humans have had so much influence on Mystara, that I'd like to see something kind of different. It's just a me thing. I'm being difficult. ;) > Also seriously :) Think further of that ant-thing. The truth > is IMHO that the humans truly are much like the ant of that > story. Small creatures who think themselves superior to the > dragons, regardles of dragons' physical and mental advantages. > The dragons ARE smarter than us. They are stronger than us. And > they have more magic than us. Only advantage for us is that we are > more in numbers and faster to reproduce. Much like the ants... I guess we know who isn't a dragon here, don't we- me and my humancentric point of view, that is. :) ------------------------------ From: Matthew Levy Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 16:10:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] a thing On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, - wrote: > I would use an approach similar to the one taken in the newer "Dark Sun" > set: All Warriors (not just those with 18 strength) are allowed to add d6-1 > points to their strength scores. If the adjusted score is 19+, interpret the > result as follows: > > 19=18/01-50 > 20=18/51-75 > 21=18/76-90 > 22=18/91-99 > 23=18/00 > 24=19 > etc. > > Then the sub-abilities are more easily handled -- they still have to be > within > four points of each other, and the maximum for Warriors is five points higher > than for non-Warriors. > > I'd say that this system is silly. I don't see why everyone with a high strenght has to be a Warrior? Or did the character become that strong after he became a Warrior?. The character was strong before he became a Fighter, what if he had become a priest instead... Oh, i'm sorry, but 40 lbs of you muscle mass just disappeared. Oh, sorry. Warriors train their muscles, all right. And it takes some time to become 1st-lvl in most classes. Why can't Priests pump Iron? Not to speak of Rogues. Just because you have exeptional strenght doesn't mean that you're a Warrior. Got it. Abilities are equal for everyone in my campaign. > > Tarjeh > There is a bigger problem with this: INFLATION. I suppose for a world like Dark Sun where it is supposed to be superpowered, that's fine. But one of the nice things about Mystara has always been that even though the WORLD is high fantasy (flying ships, special magics, active immortals), the PEOPLE of Mystara are pretty much ordinary human beings. Even the really famous heroes are still mortal ... their legendary ability is mostly the result of long training or perhaps really cool equipment, not the result of being overpumped superschwarzennegers. ESPECIALLY in a fantasy world, physical strength really isn't such an important attribute in the long run. As far as I am concerned, giving extra strength points to fighters is just a sop to players who are insecure about their penis size and have to always have more and more powerful characters without working at it ... having a god-like strength at first level means you can do massive amounts of damage without any real training time; level becomes relatively unimportant. Not only that, but then in order to keep up all the other characters have to have high strength too in order not to be ineffectual in combat, which becomes the centerpiece of the game. D&D should be more than just a combat game; and even as a combat game, it is best when kept within the boundaries with which it was originally designed (i.e. 18th strength is the max for humans, and rare at that) ... otherwise it loses all play balance. Plus which, the more characters get inflated, the less individuality each has ... as a DM I have had countless players tell me they HAVE to have all their stats above (12,14, 16, name a cutoff point) or they cannot POSSIBLY play the character. This is all about not wanting to have any weaknesses and trying to be superior to the OTHER players ... but the higher the ante goes the less the dice matter and the more every character becomes identical to every other. I always thought Superman was the most ridiculously boring Comic book character ever. Some of the best games I have ever run had PC's whose stats were all 15 or lower ... in some cases even lower than that. Sure, Priests and Rogues could be pumping iron just like fighters ... but in a realistic and chaotic world, brute force isn't the most important thing anyway, nor does it make for fun role playing. m@2 ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #300 ***************************** mystara-digest Friday, 13 December 1996 Volume 01 : Number 301 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Devin Kleinschmit Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 19:20:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Known World accessaries for sell. At 11:13 AM 12/6/96 -0500, you wrote: >First of all, I just saw this post on rec.games.frp.marketplace, and >thought people on here might be interested, I don't know the poster >at all. Personally, I think the price is too high, but some people >might like to get everything in one deal. If you don't think I >should made this post, please send me an email and I wouldn't do it >again (I don't remember whether the charter mention anything about >this type of posting or not) > >---Attached Message--- > >Hello, all. > I am finally getting out of RPGs after 18 years, and am looking to sell >some of my old AD&D modules. Here, I have all my D&D Known World modules >and accessories. All have any handouts or "extras" that came with them >originally. All have been kept in magazine cover sleeves since they were >opened. All are in excellent condition, with the exception of two maps >in the Hollow World Boxed set, which are a little creased, and have tape >on the corners. > >Modules available are: >GAZ1 Grand Duchy of Karameikos >GAZ2 Emirates of Ylaruam >GAZ3 Principalities of Glantri >GAZ4 Kingdom of Ierendi >GAZ5 Dwarves of Rockhome >GAZ6 Elves of Alfheim >GAZ7 Northern Reaches >GAZ8 Five Shires >GAZ9 Minrothad Guilds >GAZ10 Orcs of Thar >GAZ11 Republic of Darokin >GAZ12 Golden Khan of Ethengar >GAZ13 Shadow Elves >GAZ14 Atruaghin Clans >DDA 1 Arena of Thyatis >HWR1 Sons of Azca (Hollow World) >HWR2 Kingdom of Nithia (Hollow World) >AC1082 Wrath of the Immortals (Box) >AC1037 Dawn of the Emperors (Box) >AC1054 Hollow World (Box) >AC1010 Poor Wizards Alamanac >AC1011 Poor Wizards Alamanac II >TM1 Trail Map- the Western Countries >TM2 Trail Map- the Eastern Countries > >PC1 Tall Tales of the Wee Folk >PC2 Top Ballista >PC3 Sea People >PC4 Night Howlers >B1-9 In Search of Adventure > > > Purchaser will pay postage(USPS). > Right now, I am only selling these as a package, and am asking $300 >plus postage(Note that this is, essentially, cover price). If I do not >get any buyers( by, say, Dec 14th), then I might be willing to sell >individual pieces, or (more likely) "Mini-packages" such as all the PC# >modules plus B1-9 for $60. > E-mail me at the below address, and thanks for your time. > >-- > > \\|||// > O^O jtwombat@diac.com > ^^^ "Winterchilde" > //|||\\ > > The two parties have decided to have a bi-partisan Christmas this year. >Actually, they didn't have much choice - the Republicans didn't have >three wise men, and the Democracts couldn't find a Virgin. > - Jay Leno, the Tonight Show > > > >-- >Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering >Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu >(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu >(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. >Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely >irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. > > I am interested in purchasing the Western Trail Map and B1-9 In Search of Adventure from you. If you would e-mail me back with a price and specifics on how I could get them from you I would appreciate it. Devin. ------------------------------ From: BZuber5988@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 00:50:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] a thing << As far as I am concerned, giving extra strength points to fighters is just a sop to players who are insecure about their penis size and have to always have more and more powerful characters without working at it ... >> *snort*, *giggle* You must be playing with the same bunch of guys that I do! Makes me wonder if there is something about gaming that attracts men with small . . . well, anyway . . . Delarius (who is extremely confident with playing underpowered characters because I've got a huge . . . gaming library ;) ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 01:07:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Known World accessaries for sell. The accessaries are not offered by me. Please contact the following address. Devin Kleinschmit pontificated: > > > O^O jtwombat@diac.com > > ^^^ "Winterchilde" > > I am interested in purchasing the Western Trail Map and B1-9 In Search of > Adventure from you. If you would e-mail me back with a price and specifics > on how I could get them from you I would appreciate it. > > Devin. > > - -- Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu (1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu (2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept. Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur. ------------------------------ From: Kjell Stephansen Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 16:10:47 +-100 Subject: [Mystara] Orcs Head Supplement If anyone want my Dark Jungle Setting say so... I'll be finished with it in time for christmas. Tarjeh ------------------------------ From: Kjell Stephansen Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 16:14:43 +-100 Subject: SV: [Mystara] a thing - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE847.A274B460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << As far as I am concerned, giving extra strength points to fighters is just a sop to players who are insecure about their penis size and have to always have more and more powerful characters without working at it ... >> *snort*, *giggle* You must be playing with the same bunch of guys that I do! Makes me wonder if there is something about gaming that attracts men with small . . . well, anyway . . . Delarius (who is extremely confident with playing underpowered characters because I've got a huge . . . gaming library ;) This reminds me of something.... Anabolic steroids shrinks your........gaming library. Tarjeh "I like POWER PLAYING, but that must be because of my penis size" Quote from a female gamer in my group. - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE847.A274B460 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgQPAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAFNNVFAAbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABEAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYA AAAeAAEwAQAAABMAAAAnbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAFgAAAFNNVFA6TVlTVEFS QS1MQElPLkNPTQAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAD0CwBCIAHABgAAABJ UE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAFgAAAFNWOiBbTXlzdGFyYV0gYSB0aGluZwBX BwEFgAMADgAAAMwHDAAMABAADgArAAQAOAEBIIADAA4AAADMBwwADAAQAAwAJgAEADEBAQmAAQAh AAAANURCQjJDRDYzNTU0RDAxMTlCMzM0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA1gYBA5AGAGAEAAAQAAAACwAjAAAA AAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAQDgeND/ouwEeAHAAAQAAABYAAABTVjogW015 c3RhcmFdIGEgdGhpbmcAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABu+g/NB7WLLteVDUR0JszREVTVAAAAAADAAYQ UsdXvQMABxA0AgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAPDxBU0ZBUkFTSUFNQ09OQ0VSTkVELEdJVklOR0VYVFJB U1RSRU5HVEhQT0lOVFNUT0ZJR0hURVJTSVNKVVNUQVNPUFRPUExBWUVSU1dIT0FSRUlOU0VDVVJF QUJPVVRUSEVJUgAAAAACAQkQAQAAABwDAAAYAwAAzQQAAExaRnX5hTJs/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQ AvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2TvxFg8y NTUCgAqBDbELYEBuZzEwNDQK9GwQaTE4MALRaS0x/xlQDfAM0BpzC1UUUQvyE1DKbxPQYwVAPDwU sAQgKmYKwWEEIEkdIG0gGQWgbmMEkQmALCBnBGl2C4BnIGV4dDhyYSATwBYQGRB0aMggcG8LgHRz CosZ0IwzNhsfHCUgdG8c4FhpZ2gT0BGgIAQAIJxqdRPAHSAfIG9wIrJlC1F5I0J3aCLQCsBl/yNw AIAFkAhwJXABoAhgBUDpH5BlaQXAcAnwBAAKhYkfIGl6JgFuZCARgO52JXAiwQdAdySwBCAoQ18E YCXyKBEpgx/AdwSQZv51AyARcgDQIzMD8B+QJkHVJzZ3BbBrHpJhBUArsMwgLi1wIqA+PgqFCoWo KnNuFbEqHkAqHmCgZ2dsZSoioFkIYPspcCPCYipBJKEekiuiJnJnHyAdgCVwYnUd0B+gb3pmHlB1 KQEfkC0RHWBkxG8hJzZNYWsHkTHh/yyQKBAEkCNwMoAmgSViBCDfJCAHgB+QLNMmM2cdgB6S/zLz LRAe8RxgNFIDoCuiCoX6cwDAbAMgLZA5ciqAOUC7HkAAcHko4TlkLexEOeDtCsBpI8AKhSglEiOB HtL/E+A54DqAHbEaQA2wAjAxJH8wtjIgBIEqYwmAKuowgGNmYSPAJXBJJyhgCoVn4xwwI/FodWcl cDl0NtWVGdBiHwByOoA7KS3s5SFNYwBAIFQ2IAQgPXH9C4BkNFMycTXXLXEtkAqF7EFuJiEZ0GMf IQSQH9BJRtFzaAUQbmsEIHlfCGFH8kfyQxw65lQKwGp2ZTiWCoUiHWAZ0DQwICBQT1dFUk4gTEHw WUlORx5AMhAmYi0RdzA2QNYycW06gCbjJ6MieS5GUXUcMRzgA2Ej8Wb/E+AHQCVwNtE04gOgUOEJ wPkIYHAuIU8cNEQuIL9VLwsKoxUxAFnAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAQAAAEAABzBAAnLpPui7AUAACDBA AnLpPui7AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFNWOiAAAAAATEU= - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE847.A274B460-- ------------------------------ From: Kjell Stephansen Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 16:09:33 +-100 Subject: [Mystara] Strength Debate Again? - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE847.9D7A9880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable M@2 wrote: >like Dark Sun where it is supposed to be superpowered, that's fine. = But >one of the nice things about Mystara has always been that even though = the >WORLD is high fantasy (flying ships, special magics, active immortals), >the PEOPLE of Mystara are pretty much ordinary human beings. Even the >really famous heroes are still mortal ... their legendary ability is >mostly the result of long training or perhaps really cool equipment, = not >the result of being overpumped superschwarzennegers. ESPECIALLY in a >fantasy world, physical strength really isn't such an important = attribute >in the long run. As far as I am concerned, giving extra strength = points >to fighters is just a sop to players who are insecure about their penis >size and have to always have more and more powerful characters without >working at it ... having a god-like strength at first level means you = can >do massive amounts of damage without any real training time; level = becomes >relatively unimportant. Not only that, but then in order to keep up = all >the other characters have to have high strength too in order not to be >ineffectual in combat, which becomes the centerpiece of the game. D&D >should be more than just a combat game; and even as a combat game, it = is >best when kept within the boundaries with which it was originally = designed >(i.e. 18th strength is the max for humans, and rare at that) ... = otherwise >it loses all play balance. Plus which, the more characters get = inflated, >the less individuality each has ... as a DM I have had countless = players >tell me they HAVE to have all their stats above (12,14, 16, name a = cutoff >point) or they cannot POSSIBLY play the character. This is all about = not >wanting to have any weaknesses and trying to be superior to the OTHER >players ... but the higher the ante goes the less the dice matter and = the >more every character becomes identical to every other. I always = thought >Superman was the most ridiculously boring Comic book character ever. = Some >of the best games I have ever run had PC's whose stats were all 15 or >lower ... in some cases even lower than that. Sure, Priests and Rogues >could be pumping iron just like fighters ... but in a realistic and >chaotic world, brute force isn't the most important thing anyway, nor = does >it make for fun role playin One thing.... I thought this debate was over. But, i'd say: Everything that goes up, eventually comes down again... = That's the theory of balance. There is much fun in playing Huge Guys With Axes. This is a classical = Character: Strenght 18:Muscle 20 Stamina 16 =20 Dexterity 6:Balance 7 Aim 5 Health=20 Constitution 18: Fitness 20 Health 16 Intelligence 6: Knowledge 6 Reason 6 Wisdom 10: Intuition 8 Willpower 12. Charisma 12: Appearance 14 Leadership 10. These are the stats of Booba. He is 7'3" tall, and weighs in at 500 lbs. = (20 muscle is a lot of muscle). Sorry to say, Booba has the traits Unlucky and Fast Healer. He is always = the one to fall into traps and such. He is the guy who takes the damage. = And, he is a very nice character to play. He has a vocabulary of 500 = words, which is as good as "Booba Hungry" or "Booba don't like silly = elf". A amusing experiment that went really good. Booba is now the legendary = bodyguard of the king, a human wizard with only 15 Int named Furek. So? My point is: Lower two to raise one. It's unfair, but those who like it = can do it. However, how can Booba ever be a Master with his weapon, when = the only fighting he does is standing in the way, running like hell (A = 20 Muscle gives a good Movement), or stabbing with the spear. He is = unable to become something like a king, because of his intelligence. I = don't mean that you can't be smart if you strong, A player once had a = wizard named Rod who had a rolled 18, 17, 12, 11, 9, 8. He put the 18 = for strenght, and the 17 for Intelligence. I naturally allowed him to = roll for exeptional strenght, ad he rolled 97. I allowed the guy to use = a huge Iron Staff instesd of the normal Quarterstaff. He became a = fighter as much as a mage, until his first wound, then he retreated. = Natural Buildt strong. See?. - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE847.9D7A9880 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjgPAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAFNNVFAAbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABEAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYA AAAeAAEwAQAAABMAAAAnbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAFgAAAFNNVFA6TVlTVEFS QS1MQElPLkNPTQAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAD0CwBCIAHABgAAABJ UE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAIQAAAFtNeXN0YXJhXSBTdHJlbmd0aCBEZWJh dGUgQWdhaW4/AKwLAQWAAwAOAAAAzAcMAAwAEAAJACEABAApAQEggAMADgAAAMwHDAAMAA8AMgAx AAQAYQEBCYABACEAAAA0RUJCMkNENjM1NTREMDExOUIzMzQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMADWBgEDkAYASA0A ABAAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDAa/x6Pui7AR4AcAABAAAA From ???@??? Sat Dec 14 13:01:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id DAA09850; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 03:09:29 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA27043 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 09:37:03 -0600 Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 09:37:03 -0600 Message-Id: <199612131537.JAA27043@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #301 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 3b7ff099a8961f8c6624c8bf7abff6f7 IQAAAFtNeXN0YXJhXSBTdHJlbmd0aCBEZWJhdGUgQWdhaW4/AAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG76D56 89Ysu09UNRHQmzNERVNUAAAAAAMABhDoXPTFAwAHELAMAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABNQDJXUk9URTpM SUtFREFSS1NVTldIRVJFSVRJU1NVUFBPU0VEVE9CRVNVUEVSUE9XRVJFRCxUSEFUU0ZJTkVCVVRP TkVPRlRIRU5JQ0VUSElOR1NBQk9VVE1ZU1RBUkFIQVNBAAAAAAIBCRABAAAA+QsAAPULAAD2FwAA TFpGdS2uoij/AAoBDwIVAqgF6wKDAFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3Rl 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The author of the letter said how he felt it was unfair for characters with low stats to receive penalties to their xp, and for high stat characters to receive bonuses, as the characters with low stats would have to work that much harder for less gain. Bruce's response was to reverse the xp bonuses in the chart, giving characters with 3-5 in their PR a +10% bonus, 6-8 +5%, 13-15 -5%, and 16-18 -10%. The rationale being, of course, that the high stat characters would have things that much easier for them (a fighter with high strength is much more capable of taking out opponents, due to his natural abilities), and thus should not gain as much from using their abilities, whereas the low stat characters would have to work much harder, and should show more of a gain, due to their increased effort to succeed. I thought this was an interesting new take on the old xp bonus idea, and it certainly (IMO) would seem to help cut down on powergaming, as it makes low stat characters not as unappealing as they once were. Haven't ever tried it out, but I hope to some day. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? ------------------------------ From: Gabriele Ferri Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 15:45:08 +-100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons >There are, as yet, no fully developed dragon civilizations, but there are >many dragon kingdoms, as explained in the articles on dragons in Dragon >Magazine #170-171, by Bruce Heard. Can anyone post me some infos about them? (Hey, Bruce??) >Have you read the Dragonlord Trilogy? It touched upon some of >your questions. No, I haven't. It's quite tough to find in Italy... anyway, what are the TSR article codes for them? >If you wanted to you could use the Councle of The Wrym setting (it is a set of >islands >that has been controlled by Dragons for a long LONG time. Again, can anyone tell me what is the article code for this set? Is it a boxed set? Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it ------------------------------ From: "David 'Azure' Leland" Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 16:33:34 PST Subject: Re: Stat bonuses (Was: Re: [Mystara] a thing) >[discussion of high strengths snipped] > >All this talk about stats reminds me of a letter in one of Bruce Heard's >Princess Ark articles, where he discusses xp bonuses for stats. The >author of the letter said how he felt it was unfair for characters with >low stats to receive penalties to their xp, and for high stat characters >to receive bonuses, as the characters with low stats would have to work >that much harder for less gain. > >Bruce's response was to reverse the xp bonuses in the chart, giving >characters with 3-5 in their PR a +10% bonus, 6-8 +5%, 13-15 -5%, and >16-18 -10%. The rationale being, of course, that the high stat characters >would have things that much easier for them (a fighter with high strength >is much more capable of taking out opponents, due to his natural >abilities), and thus should not gain as much from using their abilities, >whereas the low stat characters would have to work much harder, and >should show more of a gain, due to their increased effort to succeed. > >I thought this was an interesting new take on the old xp bonus idea, and >it certainly (IMO) would seem to help cut down on powergaming, as it >makes low stat characters not as unappealing as they once were. Haven't >ever tried it out, but I hope to some day. Anyone else have any thoughts >on this? Many years ago I went through the same line of thinking and at first came to the same conclusion as Bruce, that low stats characters should have the bonuses and high stats characters the penalties. Somehow that seemed vindictive to me, however, and I ultimately decided that stats should have no impact on XP. Instead of penalizing anyone or giving them freebies for their numbers in my campaigns, I've decided there should be no modification at all. Just my take on it, /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ ~| David "Azure" Leland ~|~ Email: dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu |~ ~| UCSD Cognitive Science ~|~ Phone/Fax: (619) 642-6709 |~ ~| Oberlin class of 1996 ~|~ Web: http://cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland |~ ~| Amateur conguero; Q(O+H)Q(G+W)AEEEBGKUS Mystaran; P75 on Ethernet |~ \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/ ------------------------------ From: Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:57:30 -0200 (EDT) Subject: Re: Stat bonuses (Was: Re: [Mystara] a thing) On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, David 'Azure' Leland wrote: > >Bruce's response was to reverse the xp bonuses in the chart, giving > >characters with 3-5 in their PR a +10% bonus, 6-8 +5%, 13-15 -5%, and > >16-18 -10%. The rationale being, of course, that the high stat characters > >would have things that much easier for them (a fighter with high strength > >is much more capable of taking out opponents, due to his natural > >abilities), and thus should not gain as much from using their abilities, > >whereas the low stat characters would have to work much harder, and > >should show more of a gain, due to their increased effort to succeed. > > Many years ago I went through the same line of thinking and at first > came to the same conclusion as Bruce, that low stats characters should have > the bonuses and high stats characters the penalties. Somehow that seemed > vindictive to me, however, and I ultimately decided that stats should have > no impact on XP. Instead of penalizing anyone or giving them freebies for > their numbers in my campaigns, I've decided there should be no modification > at all. I remember reading that and my first reaction was favorable to the idea. It would be fairer. But come to think of it. This would mean that if you are very intelligent, you would progress slower as a mage. There was no way I could agree with that. So the world (and fantasy ones, as well) is not fair. But we already knew that, right? Andre Martins ------------------------------ From: Leroy Van Camp III Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:16:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN} This Strength Thing... Sorry to step in like this, but this Strength debate, which has come to include stuff from the _AD&D_ book Skills and Powers, really can't be considered Mystara-relevant. It would be best to continue this on another list, or through private e-mail. For an indication of what is appropriate and what is not, see the FAQ for the list, on the list home page, at... http://www.io.com/~oryon/mysthome.htm Thank you. owner-mystara-l@io.com Leroy Van Camp III van891@uidaho.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "No Law, no Chaos, just magma in your shorts, or obsidian in your eye." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Candy's Ghost, on rec.games.frp.dnd ------------------------------ From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 15:49:19 +0100 Subject: Re: Stat bonuses (Was: Re: [Mystara] a thing) At 12.50 12/12/96 -0700, you wrote: >[discussion of high strengths snipped] > >All this talk about stats reminds me of a letter in one of Bruce Heard's >Princess Ark articles, where he discusses xp bonuses for stats. The >author of the letter said how he felt it was unfair for characters with >low stats to receive penalties to their xp, and for high stat characters >to receive bonuses, as the characters with low stats would have to work >that much harder for less gain. > >Bruce's response was to reverse the xp bonuses in the chart, giving >characters with 3-5 in their PR a +10% bonus, 6-8 +5%, 13-15 -5%, and >16-18 -10%. The rationale being, of course, that the high stat characters >would have things that much easier for them (a fighter with high strength >is much more capable of taking out opponents, due to his natural >abilities), and thus should not gain as much from using their abilities, >whereas the low stat characters would have to work much harder, and >should show more of a gain, due to their increased effort to succeed. > >I thought this was an interesting new take on the old xp bonus idea, and >it certainly (IMO) would seem to help cut down on powergaming, as it >makes low stat characters not as unappealing as they once were. Haven't >ever tried it out, but I hope to some day. Anyone else have any thoughts >on this? > > Actually, it's been years since i last used the xp bonuses with my players, cause i felt they were unexplicable: why should you earn more xp only if you have better characteristics? XP value of a monster is fixed, and that's all: nothing should be added to it. On the other hand, you could give the PCs xps for action, slyness, role playing, but that's another thing, and it is not related to characteristics... The real problem for me is the % of xp to divide between PCs: how to do it? Based on the HPs each one did to the monster? Could be, but it's little slow to figure out. And what do you think about this point, which i found in Glantri's gazetteer: since wizards get xp from magic items they create (even when they fail), should they earn less xp from slaughterin a monster cause this is not their job? Answer this, if you can... ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #301 ***************************** mystara-digest Monday, 16 December 1996 Volume 01 : Number 302 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 15:52:35 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons At 15.45 11/12/96 +-100, you wrote: >>There are, as yet, no fully developed dragon civilizations, but there are >>many dragon kingdoms, as explained in the articles on dragons in Dragon >>Magazine #170-171, by Bruce Heard. > >Can anyone post me some infos about them? (Hey, Bruce??) > >>Have you read the Dragonlord Trilogy? It touched upon some of >>your questions. > >No, I haven't. It's quite tough to find in Italy... anyway, what are the TSR article codes for them? > >>If you wanted to you could use the Councle of The Wrym setting (it is a set of >islands >>that has been controlled by Dragons for a long LONG time. > >Again, can anyone tell me what is the article code for this set? Is it a boxed set? > >Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it > > Actually, Couyncil of Wyrms is still available in Italy (i saw a boxed set in Lucca Games and a friend o mine bought it... i think if you go to Avalon shop -Via Cesare Battisti BO- you could find one there, or maybe even Al Giocattolo -Via Strada Maggiore, near the two towers- has it) Hope to be of some help, ciao! ------------------------------ From: "George E. Hrabovsky" Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:38:09 -0600 Subject: RE: [Mystara] Orcs Head Supplement - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE8E4.A8944F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Me! George - ---------- From: Kjell Stephansen[SMTP:kstephan@online.no] Sent: Thursday, December 12, 1996 10:10 AM To: 'Mystara mailing list' Subject: [Mystara] Orcs Head Supplement If anyone want my Dark Jungle Setting say so... I'll be finished with it in time for christmas. Tarjeh - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE8E4.A8944F20 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgYQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAFNNVFAAbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABEAAABteXN0YXJhLWxAaW8uY29tAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYA AAAeAAEwAQAAABMAAAAnbXlzdGFyYS1sQGlvLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAFgAAAFNNVFA6TVlTVEFS QS1MQElPLkNPTQAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAD0CwBCIAHABgAAABJ UE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAIwAAAFJFOiBbTXlzdGFyYV0gT3JjcyBIZWFk IFN1cHBsZW1lbnQAIAwBBYADAA4AAADMBwwADQAKACYACQAFACoBASCAAwAOAAAAzAcMAA0ACgAm AAAABQAhAQEJgAEAIQAAADk0QzE0MDBFRDA1NEQwMTE5QzgyNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwALUGAQOQBgBE AwAAEAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5ACCzKgYU6bsBHgBwAAEA AAAjAAAAUkU6IFtNeXN0YXJhXSBPcmNzIEhlYWQgU3VwcGxlbWVudAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbvp FAYjDkDBlVTQEdCcgkRFU1QAAAAAAwAGEJZPFFMDAAcQ5QAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAE1FR0VPUkdF LS0tLS0tLS0tLUZST006S0pFTExTVEVQSEFOU0VOU01UUDpLU1RFUEhBTkBPTkxJTkVOT1NFTlQ6 VEhVUlNEQVksREVDRU1CRVIxMiwxOTk2MTA6MTBBTVRPOk0AAAAAAgEJEAEAAADxAQAA7QEAALwD AABMWkZ1xtxBcv8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJz dGVtAoMzdwLkBxMCgH0KgAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKFFHNC/JjAEAF0GUh CoUKhpEBkSBHZQWwZ2UbLUELA2xpMTgwAtFp8C0xNDQN8AzQHpMLWVwxNgqgA2AT0GMFQC1fILcK hx9rDDAgNkYDYTqHIb4gNhwDS2plbAMgOlMT0HARgACACfBbU2BNVFA6axPBJgJAAwIgHfBuZS5u b10/IV8ibQZgAjAjnySrVGgBCHBzZGF5LCBEiwWQE+BiBJAgMTIsoJAxOTk2LUAwOhkwzRSwTSgP Im1UbypPJKvMJ00TsQrAYSAAwAMQ2QuAZyAd8BPAJy5vKR68dWIlgCCAMI8kq1sydSBdIE9yYwQg SGX0YWQ1sXALUBPgKhEcvzkdwzM2HzcaRSA2SWaKIABweQIgZSB3AHAZBUBteSywCsBrIEq+dRkQ OZAGUQJAMzJzLIDZP0BvLj+wPOAnJaEtEGYgHmADAHNoCYA9gGn4dGggQRBBQAOgPwAHgD9AYAWx EXAFEBPAAMBzLu0bLFQKwCWAaBssOf87Dxc8HAqFFTEASLAAAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAH MCAZuwAU6bsBQAAIMCAZuwAU6bsBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAADF1g== - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE8E4.A8944F20-- ------------------------------ From: "George E. Hrabovsky" Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:36:57 -0600 Subject: RE: [Mystara] Dragons - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE8E4.9F58B900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am working up several dragon kings and their kingdoms for Mystara. I am approximately 1/3 of the way done. I will be detailing the dragons, their special powers, and their kingdoms for Brun, Davania, Skothar, and the one kingdom which is not a part of the major continents. Let you know when I am done (see ya next year, hahaha). George - ---------- From: Gabriele Ferri[SMTP:fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 1996 9:45 AM To: 'Mystara discussion list' Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons >There are, as yet, no fully developed dragon civilizations, but there are >many dragon kingdoms, as explained in the articles on dragons in Dragon >Magazine #170-171, by Bruce Heard. Can anyone post me some infos about them? (Hey, Bruce??) >Have you read the Dragonlord Trilogy? It touched upon some of >your questions. No, I haven't. It's quite tough to find in Italy... anyway, what are the TSR article codes for them? >If you wanted to you could use the Councle of The Wrym setting (it is a set of >islands >that has been controlled by Dragons for a long LONG time. Again, can anyone tell me what is the article code for this set? Is it a boxed set? 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Hrabovsky" Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:28:41 -0600 Subject: RE: XP Rewards (Was: Stat bonuses (Was: Re: [Mystara] a thing)) - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE8E4.943F8940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is how I give out X.P. in my game: 1) For every significant role-play incident (the character comes through the player to an extraordinary degree), and for every really clever use of a skill or ability I award the character 1/20th of the experience needed to go from their current level to the next (as described in the Rules Cyclopedia). 2) I grant the character XP equal to the value of any magic item they acquire and learn to use. 3) I grant fighter types and sometimes clerics (when it is appropriate to the religion) an equal share in the XP value of any monsters killed or defeated. 4) I grant magic users and clerics XP for creating magical/religious items and new spells. The same is true for other spell-casters. 5) I grant thief-types XP for what they steal. 6) I grant XP to characters who perform the tasks which their classes specialize in. Hope this helps. George - ---------- From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it[SMTP:dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it] Sent: Friday, December 13, 1996 8:49 AM To: mystara-l@io.com Subject: Re: Stat bonuses (Was: Re: [Mystara] a thing) At 12.50 12/12/96 -0700, you wrote: >[discussion of high strengths snipped] > >All this talk about stats reminds me of a letter in one of Bruce Heard's >Princess Ark articles, where he discusses xp bonuses for stats. The >author of the letter said how he felt it was unfair for characters with >low stats to receive penalties to their xp, and for high stat characters >to receive bonuses, as the characters with low stats would have to work >that much harder for less gain. > >Bruce's response was to reverse the xp bonuses in the chart, giving >characters with 3-5 in their PR a +10% bonus, 6-8 +5%, 13-15 -5%, and >16-18 -10%. The rationale being, of course, that the high stat characters >would have things that much easier for them (a fighter with high strength >is much more capable of taking out opponents, due to his natural >abilities), and thus should not gain as much from using their abilities, >whereas the low stat characters would have to work much harder, and >should show more of a gain, due to their increased effort to succeed. > >I thought this was an interesting new take on the old xp bonus idea, and >it certainly (IMO) would seem to help cut down on powergaming, as it >makes low stat characters not as unappealing as they once were. Haven't >ever tried it out, but I hope to some day. Anyone else have any thoughts >on this? > > Actually, it's been years since i last used the xp bonuses with my players, cause i felt they were unexplicable: why should you earn more xp only if you have better characteristics? XP value of a monster is fixed, and that's all: nothing should be added to it. On the other hand, you could give the PCs xps for action, slyness, role playing, but that's another thing, and it is not related to characteristics... The real problem for me is the % of xp to divide between PCs: how to do it? Based on the HPs each one did to the monster? Could be, but it's little slow to figure out. And what do you think about this point, which i found in Glantri's gazetteer: since wizards get xp from magic items they create (even when they fail), should they earn less xp from slaughterin a monster cause this is not their job? 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Tue Dec 17 13:04:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA26331; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:56:10 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) id TAA12084 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:12:30 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:12:30 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612170112.TAA12084@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #302 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: afefc8ac7b8a5bf15067235c9c52a982 MCXgYhwxG7AbcFqSxfHrIgFlsXkckEE3kIdyL+B/oOGbwzeCx8WIqMpTBAA/+4M+CoVBIaA2QScg JeAp0H+IkTFwPpEj8BGRHwHU4mn/L6BPcSeyKnSL6ZIzHOEjxP+KgAqFH4Anwd9xkBM4c9Ui/5DB LFEpwB+AtPF2cD5wHvH/udR/sjpDtGOL4QIgJyEGkP9/ogqFm8MxcIbzIVcEAIox39vwQvxD9hsy H2B4CYC5Fv8/oIiRJwEdVroxetK5tjFw3SRQZC3lKdAckE/KZU6zfxGAJhB/lKvhm5Eb0yESUH5D i8JX5iZCIZFBUSXgc/8nIC2wBBAl4B/SI7OrY9ey/+vm7QIkAnrSJeQ+xLoxCoXvQQFGIlR76SQu +OCqVCbx/yOwA2C08S6wJkJNtSEhpxD/KLGL4SQwCoUlAKPwDbDoEv/P8D6R8VF2cBtyJDHPUDgR zemAQsUjylVIUAQgJvD/VvGHciUALgMi2EQF6YAIUe/tw9eU3iMpwXSrEfLw/XT/PCEIcBwD2RIm IFIz/dF/sv16wmsKhYUUWsOgsMkBipLfVuLjAavw9hK6oEcY8dbR/4iRHRBZMIbxl1B2cN8kEvD+ ehmRnpERwIvR8cYukjfI99RlSYMbICgesbqgPnM4c/2Q8Wwl0bnFOHM6Q55jCsz/8vCOADxDupLq d+KkWsP2dN0uxWr50OmA2TBzz/Fas//eAecaH4H44R1sey98P31MFXQFfXQAABqQAAMAEBAAAAAA AwAREAMAAABAAAcwwHdHcxHpuwFAAAgwwHdHcxHpuwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAACT0 - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE8E4.943F8940-- ------------------------------ From: "Jorge Villalobos" Date: 13 Dec 1996 19:35:36 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragons >Is in Mystara any draconian civilization? Yes there is one in the wendarian range, read the Dragonlord Chronicles for detail (II & III book) >I think that dragon popolation should be more developed. Just think: = >dragons are a really really ancient race. Why they haven't founded = >cities? Why they haven't any culture (books, legends) and almost no = >social life? I think that there are lots of very good ideas. For = >example: in Norwold there is are some mountains (I cannot remeber the = >name) where a large number of dragons lives. How do they find enough = >food? Hunting? mmmmmh.... a dragon requires LOTS of food. So they = >probably need a social organization. So, who rules down there? What are = >the laws? Dragons are ruled by a council formed by the leader of every kind of dragon (the red´s leader, gold´s leader, etc...) Also there´s a speaker who has the final word about everithing. Dragons that don´t follow the council are renegades and are left pretty much alone unless their actions trouble dragon´s life in some way. In the Wendarian Range they have a huge city (i don´t remember the name now), lots of books and stuff can be found in the main buildings. Actually Dragons only have to eat once a day and remember that Dragons aren´t carnivors alone, they can eat gems, and a lot af strange stuff. >Another example: there are four immortal dragons. Who worship them? = >Dragons! So, it means that there must be dragon-clerics. What does a = >dragon-cleric believe? >Dragons can also cast spells in a different way than humans. Where can a = >dragon learn magic? A Draconian School of Magic? Where? What about a=20 >not-yet-discovered part of Norwold? > Again, read the Dragonlord Chronicles. >Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it > - ----------------------------------------------------------------- | ==(W{==========- | | || (.--.) | | | \_,|**|,__ Jorge Villalobos Duran | | `\ ' `--' ), Universidad de los Andes | | `\_. .__/\ \ factol@hotmail.com | | | . |""""| jo-villa@uniandes.edu.co | | /==0==-\<>/ jvillalobos@envirolink.org | | | / \ | Tel (571) 2585382 | | ( ) ( ) | | | ; | ; | | | ; | ; | - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___ _____ .'/,-Y" "~-. l.Y ^. /\ _\_ i ___/" "\ DOUGH!!!! | /" "\ o ! l ] o !__./ \ _ _ \.___./ "~\ X \/ \ ___./ ( \ ___. _..--~~" ~`-. ` Z,-- / \ \__. ( / ______) \ l /-----~~" / Y \ / | "x______.^ | \ To the tune of ``Jingle Bells'': Azathoth Azathoth Azathoth, the King Center of the Universe, Insanity he brings, Hey! - --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: marco@provincia.ra.it Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 09:20:24 +0100 Subject: RE: [Mystara] Orcs Head Supplement You wrote: >If anyone want my Dark Jungle Setting say so... I'll be finished with it in time for christmas. > >Tarjeh > > Actually i am interested. And i would really like to know who said tht TSR at mpgn had the Orc's Head supplement: i have downloaded all Savage Coast zipped files (a quest worth immortality - at 0.1 Kb per second!) and i can assure you there is not even the slightest trace to TSR2522 (Orc's Head Peninsula supplement)! So, who is responsible for the gossip? ------------------------------ From: Kaviyd@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 04:26:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Orcs Head Supplement In a message dated 96-12-14 04:17:15 EST, marco@provincia.ra.it writes: << And i would really like to know who said tht TSR at mpgn had the Orc's Head supplement: i have downloaded all Savage Coast zipped files (a quest worth immortality - at 0.1 Kb per second!) and i can assure you there is not even the slightest trace to TSR2522 (Orc's Head Peninsula supplement)! So, who is responsible for the gossip? >> So far, AOL has that supplement -- I have not yet heard that MPGN has it. But the supplement does indeed exist, so all that you are waiting for now is for somebody at TSR to upload the files to MPGN -- the creative work was done some time ago. ------------------------------ From: Kjell Stephansen Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 16:00:56 +-100 Subject: [Mystara] Orcs Head Supplemet Format. I cant't post the thing on the list, here's some info: About 12 character races. A BIG list of new savage weapons. Shaman Magic. New Jungle Monsters +++ It's written in Word for Windows 95.... If anyone want a pure text format say so... Tarjeh ------------------------------ From: Dave Brohman Date: Sun, 15 Dec 96 21:57:23 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] What's going on here? David 'Azure' Leland writes: > > Hey all, > > What's up with this dragging thread on AD&D ability scores, which > has nothing to do with Mystara? Furthermore, what's with these attachments > that are being sent everytime certain people email the list? > > Somewhat irritated, How do you figure it has nothing to do with Mystara? I run a Mystara campaign which is exclusively AD&D 2ndEd, as do many others. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Brohman E-Mail : dbrohman@chat.carleton.ca Carleton University Featuring Alexi Sayle as the Balowski Family. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Kjell Stephansen Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:35:33 +-100 Subject: SV: [Mystara] What's going on here? - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBEB5E.A6540D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David 'Azure' Leland writes: >>=20 >> Hey all, >>=20 >> What's up with this dragging thread on AD&D ability >scores, = which >> has nothing to do with Mystara? Furthermore, what's with these = attachments >> that are being sent everytime certain people email the list? >>=20 >> Somewhat irritated, Dave Brohman writes: >How do you figure it has nothing to do with Mystara? I run a >Mystara >campaign which is exclusively AD&D 2ndEd, as do many >others. I completely agree! But, as some have said, there is a pure AD&D discussion list too... I = don't know where it is?... If there is anyone here who doesn't use the AD&D or OD&D for the = Mystara setting please say so. Then we can discuss the rules for those = systems too! 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It would be best to continue this on another list, or through private e-mail. For an indication of what is appropriate and what is not, see the FAQ for the list, on the list home page, at... http://www.io.com/~oryon/mysthome.htm Thank you. >> ive read over the faq on what can be posted and what cant and im not exactly sure why this has been deemed inappropriate every character on mystara has a strength score and this discussion is about how we adapt skills & powers to mystara am i wrong??? if so could you please elaborate on your decision? thanks ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 22:12:38 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] Immortal needed Do you know those little boulder-like humanoids named Geonids, that inhabit the Shadow Elves caves ? Creature Catalog says that every Geonid's lair has a shrine to their deity, but doesn't say who this immortal is. My first guess was Terra, but her followers cannot be chaotic (and Geonids are chaotic), so I thought that maybe their immortal is Ka the Preserver. Anyway I think it should be an immortal of Matter or Entropy. Your opinion ? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 16:50:55 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortal needed On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > Do you know those little boulder-like humanoids named Geonids, that inhabit > the Shadow Elves caves ? Yes. :) I didn't know they lived in the Shadow Elve's caves, though, but I'm sure that they could well be found nearby. Of course, I'm also sure that their take on things is that the Shadow Elves live in their caves, but these things are always relative... > Creature Catalog says that every Geonid's lair has a shrine to their deity, > but doesn't say who this immortal is. My first guess was Terra, but her > followers cannot be chaotic (and Geonids are chaotic), so I thought that > maybe their immortal is Ka the Preserver. Anyway I think it should be an > immortal of Matter or Entropy. I'd say that it would be one of the very old Immortals of Matter, myself. Geonids being rock beings, I wouldn't think they would be inclined towards Entropy- after all, rocks are among the oldest things there are, and the endure longer than most things. Entropic Immortals wouldn't likely be inclined to like the Geonids for that reason, and vice versa. I'd definitely say Matter. Terra would be the best choice, but for the reason you mention. Other than that, I can't think offhand of anyone else that might work very well. Gaea might work, except that I don't think she is old enough. For those of you saying, what do you mean, old enough? I refer you to the DA series of modules, wherein the Geonids are described as living in the region of the City of the Gods, south of Blackmoor. Taking that into consideration, I'd say that the Geonids as a people and a culture, go back to the earliest days of Blackmoor (if not before), which would put them at around 4000BC or so. Gaea became immortal c.3000BC, IIRC. Maybe they worship the world of Mystara itself, rather than any specific Immortal- it does mention that their Shamans have no clerical powers. Which brings up another point- I recently got X13-Crown of Ancient Glory. In it is mentioned another Immortal, Gylgarid, who is/was worshipped by barbarians from the Heldann/Norwold region. His symbol is a minotaur, so I'm thinking he was a minotaur in life, or else just is closely associated with them. Also, there are a lot of allusions to Forsett and his worship in Vestland (I love all those old modules, especially when they interconnect like X13 and X11 and X3). Makes me saddened that the designer of GAZ7 (Ken Rolston, I think?) didn't pay any attention to Forsett, and only gives X13 a throwaway in the beginning, saying it takes place 150 years in the future. Either it's in the future, and the Heldanners are once more barbaric in their ways, and Forsett's worship has spread, or it's in the past (as alluded to in PWA1010), which would mean Forsett is currently more highly honored in Vestland than most of the other Norse pantheon, and is done a raw deal in GAZ7. Ah, well. :) ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #302 ***************************** mystara-digest Wednesday, 18 December 1996 Volume 01 : Number 303 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Claudio Castelletti Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 02:07:58 +0100 Subject: [Mystara] immortals conversion I'd like to convert Mystaran immortals to the AD&D format of the avatars, there's someone on the list who has done the conversion or a table for converting abilities (from the 1-100 scale to the 1-25 scale)? Thank you ------------------------------ From: Peter Balazs Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:32:43 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] immortals conversion >I'd like to convert Mystaran immortals to the AD&D format of the >avatars, there's someone on the list who has done the conversion or a >table for converting abilities (from the 1-100 scale to the 1-25 scale)? DON`T!=20 The AD&D Avatars are not very powerful OR balanced. And I do like the idea that the immortals can change their avatars, but maybe it wouldn=B4t be such= a bad idea to say the avatar mentioned for example in L&L is the mortal incarnation most often used by the Immortal. The 1-100 scale is for the Immortal himself, NOT his avatar! His avatar would be IMHO his mortal incarnation, which would have Abilities Score under 25. I would not recommend converting the IMMORTAL Abil.Sc. to a 1-25 scale, because then every PC with a Girdle of Giant Strength would be as strong as Thor (for example).=20 I have also converted the 1-100 Scale to the AD&D-game, which then of course give a bigger bonus. Of course it=B4s kind of senseless, to work the THAC0= of Thor out, with a Strength of 100, but at least you have some expression of the might of Immortals. (And it will change the mind of over-eager PCs, "Okay, Thor aims at the neck of your fighter, this gives him an -10 (say) for the called shot, and you have an AC of -25, okay, (Dice rolled), he hits (with a Thac0 of "I DON=B4T KNOW, BUT VERY, VERY LOW"), you get 3x(1W8+160) Damage, let=B4s say you=B4re dead!")The real problem with the PCS in the= example is, that Thor would just slaughter them, because 1.) he=B4s quite an emotionell guy, and 2.) dieing in battle is the goal of every mortal, is it= not? =20 *************************************************************************** Peter Balazs (a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at) http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: null@knuthahn.ronneby.se Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:27:07 -0800 Subject: [Mystara] hi my email is bormor@hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Gabriele Ferri Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:54:35 +-100 Subject: [Mystara] Paladins' rituals Hi everybody. During a booooring history lesson, I started randomly flipping my book's = pages and I've found the words used in the initiation of French knights = in 1024 AD. I think they could be useful for gaming. "I'll never attack a church. Since it is so holy, I'll never attack also = the warehouses which are near the church's wall, unless an evil man who = has killed a man or kidnapped a man or stolen a horse is in it. (...) I'll never attack a cleric or a monk if they don't bring weapons with = them and also who is travelling with them without shield and sword. = (...) I'll never steal the cow, the pig, the sheep, the donkey and what it is = bringing and the horse. I'll never attack the poor man or the poor woman = (...) or merchants; I'll never steal their money; (...) and I'll never = beat them. (...) I'll never put any home on fire, unless there is another knight or a = thief inside. (...) I'll never help nor protect a thief. (...) I'll never attack noble women, nor those who are travelling with them = without their husband. (...)" Guarin de Beauvais Well, it's a rough translation, but it's the best I can do. It obviously = isn't complete, but that's all is in my book. Hope this help. Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it P.S If you want to impress your players I can send you the text in = Italian or Latin. ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:29:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? It's rather quiet lately, so I'm going to throw out an idea I've been playing with.. I'm sure I don't have to repeat all the arguments about whether Mystara "should" be oD&D or AD&D. My answer is, it's both! :) Something like the "dimensions" idea thrown out a while ago (oD&D, AD&D (Planescape & Spelljammer), D. of Nightmares, D. of Myths, "Real World"), I'm planning on there being two, very closely-related Mystaras. As far as any native could tell, if they were transported from one version to another almost nothing would seem different. The main changes would be Mystara1's Voidspace vs Mystara2's Crystal Sphere, and 1's randomish assortment of hundreds of outer planes vs 2's organized Planescape setting. I've been considering having Khoronus, while zooming along Temporal Prime, noticing an unusual "alternate timeline" (placed Nuwmont 1, 1012, when the Almanacs switched from oD&D to AD&D), and exploring, meeting his double, etc. Any comments/suggestions/flames/whatever? - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Fabrizio Paoli Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:11:48 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortal needed At 16.50 16/12/96 -0700, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > >> Do you know those little boulder-like humanoids named Geonids, that inhabit >> the Shadow Elves caves ? > >Yes. :) > >I didn't know they lived in the Shadow Elve's caves, though, but I'm sure It's in Gaz13. They live in the caves around Alfmyr and IIRC in the dangerous area named "The Warrens". BTW: the caves around Alfmyr are rich in soul crystals and this causes frequent clashes between the shadow elves miners and the hard-dying geonids. >that they could well be found nearby. Of course, I'm also sure that their >take on things is that the Shadow Elves live in their caves, but these >things are always relative... Obviously :-) > >> Creature Catalog says that every Geonid's lair has a shrine to their deity, >> but doesn't say who this immortal is. My first guess was Terra, but her >> followers cannot be chaotic (and Geonids are chaotic), so I thought that >> maybe their immortal is Ka the Preserver. Anyway I think it should be an >> immortal of Matter or Entropy. > >I'd say that it would be one of the very old Immortals of Matter, myself. >Geonids being rock beings, I wouldn't think they would be inclined >towards Entropy- after all, rocks are among the oldest things there are, >and the endure longer than most things. Entropic Immortals wouldn't >likely be inclined to like the Geonids for that reason, and vice versa. >I'd definitely say Matter. > >Terra would be the best choice, but for the reason you mention. Other >than that, I can't think offhand of anyone else that might work very >well. Gaea might work, except that I don't think she is old enough. Gaea ? I looked in the Codex of Immortals (WotI) but didn't find her. Maybe she's listed under another name. Can you give me more info. > >For those of you saying, what do you mean, old enough? I refer you to the >DA series of modules, wherein the Geonids are described as living in the >region of the City of the Gods, south of Blackmoor. Taking that into >consideration, I'd say that the Geonids as a people and a culture, go >back to the earliest days of Blackmoor (if not before), which would put >them at around 4000BC or so. Gaea became immortal c.3000BC, IIRC. Maybe >they worship the world of Mystara itself, rather than any specific >Immortal- it does mention that their Shamans have no clerical powers. I didn't know this thing of Geonids being so old, because I've not those Blackmoor modules. So, excluding Terra for alignment reason and Gaea because she's "too young", there're few choices left: 1) They worship the world of Mystara itself, as you said 2) They worship Ka the Preserver as I proposed earlier. Why Ka ? I'll explain. Ka is an Immortal of Matter, is one of the oldest immortals (probably pre-Blackmoor), he's interested in endangered races and cultures. Maybe the Geonids were quite common before the Rain of Fire, but the Blackmoor catastrophe endangered them somehow (though I cannot figure out how) and Ka decided to trasplant some of them in those caves that would later become the home of Shadow Elves in order to preserve their race. Ka's followers can be of any alignment, but his clerics can be only Neutral or Lafwul and this explain why the Geonids shamans have no clerical powers. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it DM in City Of The Stars aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html ------------------------------ From: Robert Kaelin Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:49:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? > It's rather quiet lately, so I'm going to throw out an idea I've been >playing with.. > I'm sure I don't have to repeat all the arguments about whether Mystara >"should" be oD&D or AD&D. My answer is, it's both! :) > Something like the "dimensions" idea thrown out a while ago (oD&D, AD&D >(Planescape & Spelljammer), D. of Nightmares, D. of Myths, "Real World"), >I'm planning on there being two, very closely-related Mystaras. As far as >any native could tell, if they were transported from one version to >another almost nothing would seem different. The main changes would be >Mystara1's Voidspace vs Mystara2's Crystal Sphere, and 1's randomish >assortment of hundreds of outer planes vs 2's organized Planescape >setting. > I've been considering having Khoronus, while zooming along Temporal >Prime, noticing an unusual "alternate timeline" (placed Nuwmont 1, 1012, >when the Almanacs switched from oD&D to AD&D), and exploring, meeting his >double, etc. > Any comments/suggestions/flames/whatever? > >-- >Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca I guess this falls into "whatever" or at least "devil's advocate". Correct me if I'm wrong but for the 2 Mystara's to be "very closely-related" wouldn't that require that millions, even billions, of independant actions occur simultaeneously, or very similarly, in each world. (For example, at some time some being named, or similar to, Etienne D'Amberville loaded up his family and moved them to the "new world". The Beagle malfunctioned and landed on both worlds, Blackmoor devices exploded on both worlds, elves migrated in the same directions, Immortals chose the same followers, immortal candidates succeeded or failed on both worlds, major battles went to the same victor, etc, etc, etc. You could even argue the weather had to be almost identical as I'm sure SOME major event(s) in Mystara's history had to be affected by it (Some major battle must have turned tides at the last moment because of a freak snowstorm, a natural earthquake or something similar.) Actually, I can go for all this. 2 dimensions where the "grand random number generator" (if you pardon the geek term) just happens to be identical down to the tinyest digit. (Of course, it wouldn't be because there would have been a lot more "outside" contact if Mystara could be reached by spelljammers and planewalkers then it could in the OD&D version, so they would have had some impact, however small, throughout it's long history that the OD&D version never would have, but I can ignore that point as well.) But, when these two worlds contact each other as you mention, all bets are off. When 2 Khoronus' are in the same world then there's a major difference between the two worlds. What happens if a major priest of Khoronus dies in one world because his 7th levels spells suddenly fail in his Immortals "absense"? (I believe according the WotI and the gold box Immortals can only contact their followers and grant spells if they're in the same dimension.) Wouldn't that suddenly alter things, possibly dramatically? Now, if you want to talk about "the great schism" where the day you mentioned was the day the two worlds suddenly, and possibly violently, flew into different directions I can go for that. Having the two exist and be able to contact each other, even if it is only the immortals, would dramatically change everything. For example, let's say Alphaks created a kick-but Artifact sword in his earlier days as an Immortal. If he discovers the existance of the other world, he could easily assume that his "twin" had created a similar sword in his own world. What would stop our Alphaks from going and trying to take or steal the sword from the other, thereby doubling his might? (After all, if anyone knows Alphaks weaknesses and how to take advantage of them, it would be Alphaks himself) OK, maybe Alphaks isn't bright enough to do that, but how about Thanatos, or Hel, or any of the evil immortals. From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 11:25:35 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id EAA12211; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 04:50:07 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) id LAA05823 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 11:11:26 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 11:11:26 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612181711.LAA05823@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #303 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 0ec8b4e312efcd54d36dbc59992415f5 Possibly even some of the good ones would try to take advantage of it, "Hey, you good Immortals come to our world, help us wipe out the immortals of entropy there and then we'll go to your world and do the same." Of course the wisest of the Immortals would see the possible detrement this would have on the great balance between the spheres, but as WotI showed us, not all Immortals care about the balance of the spheres. (Can you just picture 2 Rads? They could split the study of the Nucleus between themselves, go different ways in their experiments then meet once a year or so to fill the other one in on their progress. Just imagine what they'd discover if they could move at twice the rate and compare notes with a being who thought almost exactly like they did.) I guess you can just say an Immortal's powers don't work in the other dimensions, but it still wouldn't prevent the cooperation of 2 nearly identical Immortals. Frankly, I'm scared. (In summation, unless you actually want/need to play both worlds at the same time, in the same campaign it just seems like a lot of "let's suppose"'s to me just to justify the arguments on this list. If you say the two worlds never contact each other or could, then it's much easier to justify, but then what's the point?) There's another major difference that just occured to me. In the Mystara1 the Immortals have their own "Home Planes" where they are the one and only say. In Mystara2 thew Immortals would have "Realms" like all the other Powers which they have to be on levels they'd have to share with many, many other beings, even other Powers. They wouldn't evolve in the same manner, they'd be in completely different enviornments. (This comes from me spending the last weekend reading "On Hallowed Ground" and "The Planewalkers Handbook") But it's a great idea. don't let me not liking it stop you. :-) - -Bob - ------------------------------------------------ Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence Software Developer 725 Concord Ave. (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138 Kaelin@natural.com ------------------------------ From: Carl Quaif <101337.2464@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Dec 96 18:00:37 EST Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortal needed >> Creature Catalog says that every Geonid's lair has a shrine to their deity, >> but doesn't say who this immortal is. >I'd say that it would be one of the very old Immortals of Matter, myself. >Geonids being rock beings, I wouldn't think they would be inclined >towards Entropy- after all, rocks are among the oldest things there are, >and the endure longer than most things. Entropic Immortals wouldn't >likely be inclined to like the Geonids for that reason, and vice versa. >I'd definitely say Matter. I'm inclined to agree with you. :) >Terra would be the best choice, but for the reason you mention. Other >than that, I can't think offhand of anyone else that might work very >well. Gaea might work, except that I don't think she is old enough. > Maybe they worship the world of Mystara itself, rather than any specific >Immortal- it does mention that their Shamans have no clerical powers. Perhaps...but just think of the possibilities if tribes of Geonids had converted to worship of Gaea (or was it Djaea?) sometime in the past - perhaps shortly after her ascension; what Initiate of Matter could resist a race of silicate beings as followers? - imagine what may have followed; a holy war between rival factions, the lesser numbers of the Djaea-worshippers offset by their shamanic magic? Even if the Djaean Geonids ("Djaeonids"? or is that too silly?) lost out, their patron would be certain to place them somewhere safe in the Hollow World - the Kogolor Mountains, perhaps - where they would florish. There may even be Geonid candidates for Immortality by now - since they are (I believe) very long-lived, said beings may have pursued this path for centuries already, with many years yet to go. Anybody else want to run with these ideas? Oh, by the way - Hi! I've been lurking on this list for about 3 weeks now. My name is Carl Quaif, but call me Bugwort (for reasons uniquely my own). I've been playing oD&D for about 18 years now (I'm 28) and was, I'll admit, horrified when TSR a) moved Mystara to AD&D (don't they have ENOUGH game worlds?) and then b) cancelled my favourite game altogether. I discovered the wealth of Mystaran info on the Web only about 4-5 weeks ago -my deepest thanks to everyone who loves the setting enough to preserve it on their Web pages - and was ecstatic to discover the mailing list. I've worked up a number of Mystara-based creatures, characters and even races for Mystara over the years (the Alphatian Sylph, for one) - perhaps I'll get the time to send them to the list, if anyone's interested(?). Best wishes, Bugs ------------------------------ From: Matthew Levy Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:36:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? I like it. Why stop at just two? My own Mystara, for instance, is sufficiently different from the standard that I decided it must be a separate plane some time ago. Any DM who likes earthshattering campaings will have a Mystara that doesn't quite match. anyway, that was my two pieces. m@2 On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Daniel Boese wrote: > It's rather quiet lately, so I'm going to throw out an idea I've been > playing with.. > I'm sure I don't have to repeat all the arguments about whether Mystara > "should" be oD&D or AD&D. My answer is, it's both! :) > Something like the "dimensions" idea thrown out a while ago (oD&D, AD&D > (Planescape & Spelljammer), D. of Nightmares, D. of Myths, "Real World"), > I'm planning on there being two, very closely-related Mystaras. As far as > any native could tell, if they were transported from one version to > another almost nothing would seem different. The main changes would be > Mystara1's Voidspace vs Mystara2's Crystal Sphere, and 1's randomish > assortment of hundreds of outer planes vs 2's organized Planescape > setting. > I've been considering having Khoronus, while zooming along Temporal > Prime, noticing an unusual "alternate timeline" (placed Nuwmont 1, 1012, > when the Almanacs switched from oD&D to AD&D), and exploring, meeting his > double, etc. > Any comments/suggestions/flames/whatever? > > -- > Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca > > ------------------------------ From: sean@netidea.com (Sean Nicolson) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:48:14 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Paladins' rituals >Hi everybody. >During a booooring history lesson, I started randomly flipping my book's pages and I've found the words used in the initiation of French knights in 1024 AD. I think they could be useful for gaming. My players would love this! They're the slackest bunch of paladin's vows I've ever seen! I guess, 'La Morte de Arthur' aside, standards for honourable conduct really weren't that high in the middle ages. Sean Nicolson sean@netidea.com ------------------------------ From: Aron Reif Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 22:45:21 +0500 Subject: [Mystara] Savage Coast I've got a question that maybe some of you could answer. Last night, I was paging through an old Dragon Magazine (issue 231) and it mentioned in the "TSR Previews" section that there was a book called "Savage Coast Campaign Book" (TSR 2521). Was this book ever produced? I've never seen it in any store. Now before I get 20 replies saying "you dummy, you can download it from MPGN for free", I want to say that I already know about it. However, reading more than a few pages on a computer screen starts to hurt your eyes, and you can't really reference anything quickly. It would be worth the $25 that TSR is asking just so I don't have to turn on my computer and scroll through the pages to find what I'm looking for. Besides, the online version skimps on the artwork. If it actually exists in book form, then I'll have to try and hunt it down. If not, then I'll probably end up spending $25 for the paper and printer ribbon that it would take to print it out. Thanks, Aron Reif areif@vt.edu ------------------------------ From: Kaviyd@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:53:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortal needed In a message dated 96-12-17 20:06:20 EST, lu000122@lunet.it (Fabrizio Paoli) writes: << Gaea ? I looked in the Codex of Immortals (WotI) but didn't find her. Maybe she's listed under another name. Can you give me more info. >> I think she is listed as "Djaea" in that book. ------------------------------ From: Kaviyd@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:57:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Savage Coast Sorry, that set plus the other two are on-line exclusives -- they are available only as downloads from AOL or MPGN and will not be found in any hobby store. I asked the folks at TSR the same question myself a few months ago. ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 01:40:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? Matthew Levy pontificated: > > I like it. Why stop at just two? My own Mystara, for instance, is > sufficiently different from the standard that I decided it must be a > separate plane some time ago. Any DM who likes earthshattering campaings > will have a Mystara that doesn't quite match. So, perhaps to official TSR Mystara is the one true Mystara, and every other DM's Mystara are the branchs off it? Well, this will resolve the what is official issues once and for all :) John Yu ------------------------------ From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:40:50 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortal needed On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > Gaea ? I looked in the Codex of Immortals (WotI) but didn't find her. Maybe > she's listed under another name. Can you give me more info. That's my bad- I meant, Djaea, the Immortal whois interested in worlds and their well being. Gaea, Djaea- potatoes, potatoes... (Hmm, that looks the same when written, doesn't it? Well, you know the saying, I'm sure. :) I noticed this after I had written it, when I went to check the Immortal Codex at home. I'm just a big stupid head. :p ------------------------------ From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:04:51 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? At 13.29 17/12/96 -0500, you wrote: > It's rather quiet lately, so I'm going to throw out an idea I've been >playing with.. > I'm sure I don't have to repeat all the arguments about whether Mystara >"should" be oD&D or AD&D. My answer is, it's both! :) > Something like the "dimensions" idea thrown out a while ago (oD&D, AD&D >(Planescape & Spelljammer), D. of Nightmares, D. of Myths, "Real World"), >I'm planning on there being two, very closely-related Mystaras. As far as >any native could tell, if they were transported from one version to >another almost nothing would seem different. The main changes would be >Mystara1's Voidspace vs Mystara2's Crystal Sphere, and 1's randomish >assortment of hundreds of outer planes vs 2's organized Planescape >setting. > I've been considering having Khoronus, while zooming along Temporal >Prime, noticing an unusual "alternate timeline" (placed Nuwmont 1, 1012, >when the Almanacs switched from oD&D to AD&D), and exploring, meeting his >double, etc. > Any comments/suggestions/flames/whatever? > >-- >Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca > Actually, that's what i've also thought to mix Spelljammer rules with Champions of Mystara! The fact is that for me dimensions are different from planes of existence: so, in our Mystara (D&D) universe, there are Inner Planes (the first end the ethereal plane), the Astral Plane and the Outer Planes, and this constitutes the Multiverse Dimension... But there are other dimensions, like the Dimension of Myth (ref. Wrath of the Immortals and Gaz7) and the Nightmare Dimension... and i think you could place Mystara2 in the Dimension of Myth (that's what i did, at least), where it is enclosed in a crystal sphere i named Geaspace as well as all the other worlds of this Dimension (Greyspace, Krynnspace, Clusterspace... etc) The entire Dimension of Myth is full of Phlogiston where the spheres bob around like buoys (sorry for the mean simile) and the phlogiston prevents any teleport from one sphere to another to occur... But this doesn't mean you cannot enter the Ethereal plane of that dimension from one sphere, travel to the Astral or Outer Planes (of this dimension, i insist, which are different from the ones where Immortal live... these are the planes Planescape deals with, if u wanna use that campaign source) and from there appear in another sphere... That's how i see it, and for me it works! When you're in the Dimension of Myth, spacecraft retain their air envelope and physics work as per Spelljammer rules, but when you enter Multiverse Dimension, the physical rules switch to those described in Champions of Mystara and Dawn of the Emperors boxed set.... much more realistic IMHO. Hope i've been of some help! ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #303 ***************************** From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 13:25:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA05074; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:47:56 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) id EAA15906 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 04:15:44 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 04:15:44 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612191015.EAA15906@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #304 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: e778953558aec2f0b5985585b090e706 mystara-digest Thursday, 19 December 1996 Volume 01 : Number 304 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:15:41 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? >Correct me if I'm wrong but for the 2 Mystara's to be "very >closely-related" wouldn't that require that millions, even billions, of >independant actions occur simultaeneously, or very similarly, in each >world. (For example, at some time some being named, or similar to, Etienne >D'Amberville loaded up his family and moved them to the "new world". The >Beagle malfunctioned and landed on both worlds, Blackmoor devices exploded >on both worlds, elves migrated in the same directions, Immortals chose the >same followers, immortal candidates succeeded or failed on both worlds, >major battles went to the same victor, etc, etc, etc. You could even argue >the weather had to be almost identical as I'm sure SOME major event(s) in >Mystara's history had to be affected by it (Some major battle must have >turned tides at the last moment because of a freak snowstorm, a natural >earthquake or something similar.) > >Actually, I can go for all this. 2 dimensions where the "grand random >number generator" (if you pardon the geek term) just happens to be >identical down to the tinyest digit. (Of course, it wouldn't be because >there would have been a lot more "outside" contact if Mystara could be >reached by spelljammers and planewalkers then it could in the OD&D version, >so they would have had some impact, however small, throughout it's long >history that the OD&D version never would have, but I can ignore that point >as well.) I'll correct you, cause in my opinion you're wrong. The 2 Mystaras are 2 different things entirely: their stories are different, as well as their characters (uh, well maybe something could be the same or very similar -just names change- but only for sheer luck or fate's games). And that's because they're not 2 alternate realities of the same world, but 2 worlds closely linked together that exist in 2 different and separate dimensions (read my reply to Daniel Boese and you'll understand) >There's another major difference that just occured to me. In the Mystara1 >the Immortals have their own "Home Planes" where they are the one and only >say. In Mystara2 thew Immortals would have "Realms" like all the other >Powers which they have to be on levels they'd have to share with many, many >other beings, even other Powers. They wouldn't evolve in the same manner, >they'd be in completely different enviornments. (This comes from me >spending the last weekend reading "On Hallowed Ground" and "The >Planewalkers Handbook") No way! There are not Mystara1 Immortals in Mystara2 dimension: there are the gods described in Planescape campaign book (if u want so9 or maybe other gods... but it is possible for Mystara1 Immortals to visit Mystara2 and the outer planes of this dimension to meet the other gods (they can do it by using avatars, if they don't want to physically leave Multiverse dimension) >But it's a great idea. don't let me not liking it stop you. :-) > I agree: it's a good idea, but maybe each of us has his own, so why not to share them? Bye! DM ------------------------------ From: Kjell Stephansen Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:13:52 +-100 Subject: SV: [Mystara] Savage Coast - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBECFE.DE8C3700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >I've got a question that maybe some of you could answer. Last night, I = was >paging through an old Dragon Magazine (issue 231) and it mentioned in = the >"TSR Previews" section that there was a book called "Savage Coast = Campaign >Book" (TSR 2521). Was this book ever produced? I've never seen it in = any >store. >Now before I get 20 replies saying "you dummy, you can download it from = MPGN >for free", I want to say that I already know about it. However, = reading >more than a few pages on a computer screen starts to hurt your eyes, = and you >can't really reference anything quickly. It would be worth the $25 = that TSR >is asking just so I don't have to turn on my computer and scroll = through the >pages to find what I'm looking for. Besides, the online version skimps = on >the artwork. If it actually exists in book form, then I'll have to try = and >hunt it down. If not, then I'll probably end up spending $25 for the = paper >and printer ribbon that it would take to print it out. I totally agree... Though, it would have cost half again that price in = Norway, I would rather buy the stuff than to print out 250 pages where = most of the info can be found in the RED STEEL or the SAVAGE COAST. I = bet T$R got a deal with some printer company or paper factory. PS. Have you seen the JPEG pictures for the Savage Coast Monstrous = Manual? They're GREAT! 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Last night, I was > paging through an old Dragon Magazine (issue 231) and it mentioned in the > "TSR Previews" section that there was a book called "Savage Coast Campaign > Book" (TSR 2521). Was this book ever produced? I've never seen it in any > store. > > Now before I get 20 replies saying "you dummy, you can download it from MPGN > for free", I want to say that I already know about it. However, reading > more than a few pages on a computer screen starts to hurt your eyes, and you > can't really reference anything quickly. It would be worth the $25 that TSR > is asking just so I don't have to turn on my computer and scroll through the > pages to find what I'm looking for. Besides, the online version skimps on > the artwork. If it actually exists in book form, then I'll have to try and > hunt it down. If not, then I'll probably end up spending $25 for the paper > and printer ribbon that it would take to print it out. > > Thanks, > > Aron Reif > areif@vt.edu In regards to the Savage Coast campaign book: How old was this issue? I have a Savage Coast Campaign book. It comes in the Red Steel boxed set that TSR released in '94. They re-did the old Savage Coast adventure and turned it into a whole new setting. It is quite an excellent campaign setting and I recommend you pick it up. Mark ------------------------------ From: Robert Kaelin Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:35:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? >I'll correct you, cause in my opinion you're wrong. Won't be the first time. :-) >The 2 Mystaras are 2 >different things entirely: their stories are different, as well as their >characters (uh, well maybe something could be the same or very similar -just >names change- but only for sheer luck or fate's games). And that's because >they're not 2 alternate realities of the same world, but 2 worlds closely >linked together that exist in 2 different and separate dimensions (read my >reply to Daniel Boese and you'll understand) I understand completely. It was my impression (and rereading the post that started this still is) that the OD&D and AD&D Mystara's that Daniel was talking about WERE identical in every detail except for as noted, basically spelljamming and the placement of the planes. He even says "any native of Mystara wouldn't even know if he/she was transported from one world to another." (I'm paraphrasing) If you want to talk about 2 entirely different worlds then go ahead. That wasn't the bandwagon I jumped on. :-) Anyway, so what are you saying? Mystara1 and Mystara2 shouldn't be identical? So the AD&D Mystara should have all it's NPC's renamed, major battles rethought, calendar's renamed, different star patterns, etc, etc, etc. Let me guess which world you play in. :-) If you're looking for a way to justify the existance of the AD&D Mystara world in your OD&D campaign, then I think you're missing the general point of the discussion. They're seperate, but except for a few trivial details, completely identical. Their timelines, major events, major personalities, flora, fauna, and so on, all as close to identical as possible. That's not my opinion, it comes from the fact that the OD&D and AD&D poor wizards almanacs detail the EXACT same world. (Barring a few differences in level and in the stat translation.) > No way! There are not Mystara1 Immortals in Mystara2 dimension: there are >the gods described in Planescape campaign book (if u want so9 or maybe other >gods... but it is possible for Mystara1 Immortals to visit Mystara2 and the >outer planes of this dimension to meet the other gods (they can do it by >using avatars, if they don't want to physically leave Multiverse dimension) Again, Daniel talks about the 2 Khoronus' meeting and having a discussion, and talks about Khoronus finding an "alternate timeline" of his own Mystara. If they're two completely seperate worlds then this is a whole new discussion. >>But it's a great idea. don't let me not liking it stop you. :-) >> >I agree: it's a good idea, but maybe each of us has his own, so why not to >share them? Because the whole point of this thread was to stir up some discussion. I'm stirring, I'm stirring. :-) I think it's an obvious point that each campaign world is it's own "alternate reality" seperate from all the others and whatever the "official" Mystara is. I know some people like to harbor the delusion we're all playing in the exact same campaign world, and get all hot and bothered when someone does something in their own world that wouldn't mesh in theirs. (And that's all I have to say about that, I promise.) Up until now, however, it was always assumed that somehow OD&D Mystara just "morphed" into AD&D Mystara one day. Daniel came up with a pretty darn good idea that the two worlds actually exist together, instead of being a single one. He then went on to say the two could somehow contact one another, and I expounded on the problems I saw with 2 nearly identical worlds dealing with one another. (If they can't contact one another, then it's still a nice idea but there's not a lot of point to knowing it.) Your From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 13:25:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA05074; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:47:56 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) id EAA15906 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 04:15:44 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 04:15:44 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612191015.EAA15906@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #304 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: e778953558aec2f0b5985585b090e706 idea about putting Mystara2 into the dimension of Myth is also pretty good, but I think it's entirely different. Making them seperate dimensions (or better yet seperate Universes in the Multiverse) just makes it easier to justify the completely different setup of planes and other facts of physics that differ in the two worlds (like spelljamming.) - -Bob - ------------------------------------------------ Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence Software Developer 725 Concord Ave. (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138 Kaelin@natural.com ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:59:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? > So, perhaps to official TSR Mystara is the one true Mystara, and > every other DM's Mystara are the branchs off it? Well, this > will resolve the what is official issues once and for all :) Dang, you found my secret purpose in making that post in the first place.. Ah well, I'm sure we'll find something equally useful to flame about soon enough. (Anybody care to tackle FNN?) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:26:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Orc's Head supplement I haven't seen anybody else mention it, so I'm letting you all know that the Orc's Head online exclusive has been put on the MPGN site.. I'll let you know what I think of it after I go through it. :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca who has a fondness for phanatons.. ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:04:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mystara] Immortals in Planescape? Perhaps some of you who know the Planescape setting better than I do can help me figure this one out. Assuming that Mystara exists in the Planescape/Spelljammer continuum, what exactly are Immortals? They're mortals who've 'ascended' to divinity, which, as far as I remember, is a "no-no" according to Planescape. And there's the ever-popular debate about the God/Power Thor being or not being the Immortal Thor.. Anybody able to clear this up? - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:57:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? > I like it. Why stop at just two? My own Mystara, for instance, is > sufficiently different from the standard that I decided it must be a > separate plane some time ago. Any DM who likes earthshattering campaings > will have a Mystara that doesn't quite match. In my own games, I treat all other Mystaras as alternate timelines.. and I'm still trying to think of an excuse to have a "Sliders"-type Mystara game. ;) (Sliders is a 3-year-old TV show that involves a small group "sliding" from one alternate Earth to another, btw.) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:55:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Robert Kaelin wrote: > > It's rather quiet lately, so I'm going to throw out an idea I've been > >playing with.. > Correct me if I'm wrong but for the 2 Mystara's to be "very > closely-related" wouldn't that require that millions, even billions, of > independant actions occur simultaeneously, or very similarly, in each > world. > Actually, I can go for all this. True enough, save for details induced by rules differences; say, Weapon Mastery training vs Weapon Proficiency training. > But, when these two worlds contact each other as you mention, all bets are > off. Actually, I should have made this part more clear; I was thinking along the lines of "Due to his immense knowledge of Temporal Prime, Khoronus noticed an otherwise-hidden 'alternate' timeline, and explored it. And knowing the consequences of interaction between timelines, he did his utmost to keep it secret." (Which brings up another idea, that of alternate Mystara timelines interacting with the 'real' one.. :) ) After all, from what I recall from "Chronomancy & the Multiverse", only Khoronus is making a systematic log of all of Mystara's alternate timelines.. and for the purposes of most Immortals, this is simply yet another one of those. :) > (I believe according the WotI and the gold box > Immortals can only contact their followers and grant spells if they're in > the same dimension.) True, however it is possible for an Immortal to create an artifact that supplies spells whenever, for whatever reason, he's unable to - and it only costs 250 PP, which most high-level Immortals can afford. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Joe Duncan Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:52:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Savage Coast At 10:45 PM 12/17/96 +0500, you wrote: >I've got a question that maybe some of you could answer. Last night, I was >paging through an old Dragon Magazine (issue 231) and it mentioned in the >"TSR Previews" section that there was a book called "Savage Coast Campaign >Book" (TSR 2521). Was this book ever produced? I've never seen it in any >store. > >Now before I get 20 replies saying "you dummy, you can download it from MPGN >for free", I want to say that I already know about it. However, reading >more than a few pages on a computer screen starts to hurt your eyes, and you >can't really reference anything quickly. It would be worth the $25 that TSR >is asking just so I don't have to turn on my computer and scroll through the >pages to find what I'm looking for. Besides, the online version skimps on >the artwork. If it actually exists in book form, then I'll have to try and >hunt it down. If not, then I'll probably end up spending $25 for the paper >and printer ribbon that it would take to print it out. They never released it. But the work had been done so they put it on the net for free..... - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive" Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca cq793@freenet.carleton.ca - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:12:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? (Don't mind my "burst" mode on this list (ie, silent for weeks, then making up for it in a few days). :) ) > Again, Daniel talks about the 2 Khoronus' meeting and having a discussion, > and talks about Khoronus finding an "alternate timeline" of his own > Mystara. If they're two completely seperate worlds then this is a whole > new discussion. Here's an idea that I've been playing with.. The reason Khoronus noticed the 'gate' between Mystara1 and Mystara2 in the first place was that Mystara1 was losing.. ah.. call it "reality-ness". He traced where the "reality-ness" was going, and discovered the "alternate timeline" of Mystara2 was absorbing it. Now, he's frantically trying to keep his own Mystara1 from disappearing entirely, being absorbed completely into Mystara2... (And if you want to get /really/ silly, he has to go to the "Real World" dimension and influence the odd subset of people called "gamers" there to go back to "D&D" instead of "AD&D". :) ) > Up until now, however, it was always assumed that somehow OD&D Mystara just > "morphed" into AD&D Mystara one day. Daniel came up with a pretty darn > good idea Why, thank you. :) > that the two worlds actually exist together, instead of being a > single one. > He then went on to say the two could somehow contact one > another, and I expounded on the problems I saw with 2 nearly identical > worlds dealing with one another. True enough; I understand most of your objections. However, I feel that 'limited access' is a workable solution - for example, Khoronus is /the/ authority on Temporal Prime and alternate timelines; I doubt anybody with less knowledge then him on these subjects would be able to even find the 'gateway', let alone use it. YMMV, of course. > Making them seperate dimensions (or better yet seperate Universes in the > Multiverse) just makes it easier to justify the completely different setup > of planes and other facts of physics that differ in the two worlds (like > spelljamming.) This is one thing I was considering, save for the fact that as far as I can tell, according to Planescape there is only one Prime Plane, which is the Spelljammer system. If I've missed something here, please let me know.. :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 02:59:23 -0200 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals in Planescape? On Wed, 18 Dec 1996, Daniel Boese wrote: > Perhaps some of you who know the Planescape setting better than I do can > help me figure this one out. > Assuming that Mystara exists in the Planescape/Spelljammer continuum, > what exactly are Immortals? They're mortals who've 'ascended' to divinity, > which, as far as I remember, is a "no-no" according to Planescape. And > there's the ever-popular debate about the God/Power Thor being or not > being the Immortal Thor.. > Anybody able to clear this up? I know people have very different opinions on this subject, but I'll answer it anyway, based on TSR. In the DM's option: high-level campaigns books, what means AD&D and gods, instead of immortals, there are rules for a PC to become a deity. They are exactly the paths to immortality from WotI, just underdeveloped (the whole thing occupies just one page). This makes it clear their oficial position is that immortals and deities are exactly the same. They might have said it differently before (I don't know about it, though) and I am sure some people will not think they are right, anyway, but that is certainly their position now. Personally, I have always considered it this way and the fact they are supporting my personal view had really no effect on how I would play it. Andre Martins ------------------------------ From: Aron Reif Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 01:14:54 +0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Savage Coast At 11:38 AM 12/18/96 -0600, you wrote: >In regards to the Savage Coast campaign book: >How old was this issue? >I have a Savage Coast Campaign book. It comes in the Red Steel boxed set >that TSR released in '94. They re-did the old Savage Coast adventure and >turned it into a whole new setting. It is quite an excellent campaign >setting and I recommend you pick it up. >Mark > It was Dragon issue #231 (probably August, 1996). This is not the book that was in the Red Steel box set. I have that (very nice, by the way). This is a seperate book that was supposed to combine and update the Red Steel/Savage Baronies books. I already have it as a computer file, but they stripped it of everything but the text, so it's kind of a dull read. Also, I was kinda hoping that it came with another of those CDs. I like the Red Steel CDs. Its the CDs that came with the Mystara stuff that I could have done without. Anyway, others on the list have already answered my question. The answer is no, it's only available online (which means that I'm going to have to try and print the whole thing out). Aron Reif areif@vt.edu ------------------------------ From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:23:37 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Savage Coast At 01.14 19/12/96 +0500, you wrote: > >It was Dragon issue #231 (probably August, 1996). This is not the book that >was in the Red Steel box set. I have that (very nice, by the way). This is >a seperate book that was supposed to combine and update the Red Steel/Savage >Baronies books. I already have it as a computer file, but they stripped it >of everything but the text, so it's kind of a dull read. Also, I was kinda >hoping that it came with another of those CDs. I like the Red Steel CDs. >Its the CDs that came with the Mystara stuff that I could have done without. > Anyway, others on the list have already answered my question. The >answer is no, it's only available online (which means that I'm going to have >to try and print the whole thing out). > >Aron Reif >areif@vt.edu> I definitely agree with your last comments! What made Red Steel different was the CDs that came along with it, the best idea TSR had in the last years... Pity that they didn't go on with them.... And about the Mystara CDs, i have to say that they are not the worst thing.... the worst are the graphic design and the images in the books!!!! What were they thinking about when they released AD&D Glantri??? DM (aka Vegeta) "Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola' (That which is not known is enchanting) ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #304 ***************************** From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 13:25:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: from dove.mtx.net.au by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA06093; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:40:40 +1100 Received: from home (ppp11n.mtx.net.au [203.15.26.111]) by dove.mtx.net.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA22437 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:09:11 +1030 Message-Id: <199612191139.WAA22437@dove.mtx.net.au> From: "Stephen Latz" To: Subject: Magic collection Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:03:07 +1030 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 25ffa7fab84de7587b7b21fedeb005f7 Hi Shawn I'm always after magic cards, if you do decide to post it please send email me your post as I'm interestted. Thanks Steve From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 13:26:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA19086; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:28:20 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) id RAA24313 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:40:17 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:40:17 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612192340.RAA24313@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #305 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: caafaf24afd4275a04b563492b1fb75c mystara-digest Thursday, 19 December 1996 Volume 01 : Number 305 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:59:09 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals in Planescape? At 14.04 18/12/96 -0500, you wrote: > Perhaps some of you who know the Planescape setting better than I do can >help me figure this one out. > Assuming that Mystara exists in the Planescape/Spelljammer continuum, >what exactly are Immortals? They're mortals who've 'ascended' to divinity, >which, as far as I remember, is a "no-no" according to Planescape. And >there's the ever-popular debate about the God/Power Thor being or not >being the Immortal Thor.. > Anybody able to clear this up? > I assure you this is not the case: i don't own a single Planescape supplement, so i'm not the right person to pontificate on this subject, but i have my own ideas.. IMHO, Immortals and AD&D deities are not the same thing! Could be that Immortals are less powerful than AD&D gods, but i rather think that the AD&D gods seem more powerful only because they do not interact so often with mortals as Immortals do (thus retaining their aura of mystery and power) and especially because for some unknown reason in the dimension/universe where they rule mortals cannot attain their status, as common (well, not so common really) mortals do in the Multiverse. As regards Thor, well it could be he is the same as Odin and the other deities with the same names, or it could be they are 2 omonimous gods... but as i think the AD&D gods live in the Dimension of Myth as Gaz7 suggest, i surmise they (and each other god with the same name of other Immortals) are the same entity that has established its cult on two different dimensions to obtain more power.. Satisfied? DM (aka Vegeta) "Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola' (That which is not known is enchanting) ------------------------------ From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:08:27 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? At 13.55 18/12/96 -0500, you wrote: >> off. > Actually, I should have made this part more clear; I was thinking along >the lines of "Due to his immense knowledge of Temporal Prime, Khoronus >noticed an otherwise-hidden 'alternate' timeline, and explored it. And >knowing the consequences of interaction between timelines, he did his >utmost to keep it secret." (Which brings up another idea, that of >alternate Mystara timelines interacting with the 'real' one.. :) ) After >all, from what I recall from "Chronomancy & the Multiverse", only Khoronus >is making a systematic log of all of Mystara's alternate timelines.. and >for the purposes of most Immortals, this is simply yet another one of >those. :) You see, the only problem for Immortals and deities traveling through alternate realities is the so called "doubling lifeline effect". If they are immortals, their life essence basically exists on all the realities of the same dimension at the same time, making for them impossible to travel to other realities or even throughout time itself (it is possible to travel in Temporal Prime, but not to enter reality cause there's the risk of a Temporal Vortex) You could say that the immortals could cast Sever Lifeline to avoid this effect, but in my opinion it doesn't work for them the way it works for humans. Mortal chronomancers are unidimensional, whereas the life essence of Immortals is multidimensional and thus they possess multiple lifelines that i think is not possible to separate from the very essence of the Immortal by any means (and that also explains why Immortals beaten by mortals cannot travel back in the past and change the events) DM (aka Vegeta) "Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola' (That which is not known is enchanting) ------------------------------ From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:50:43 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? At 13.35 18/12/96 -0400, you wrote: > >I understand completely. It was my impression (and rereading the post that >started this still is) that the OD&D and AD&D Mystara's that Daniel was >talking about WERE identical in every detail except for as noted, basically >spelljamming and the placement of the planes. He even says "any native of >Mystara wouldn't even know if he/she was transported from one world to >another." (I'm paraphrasing) If you want to talk about 2 entirely >different worlds then go ahead. That wasn't the bandwagon I jumped on. :-) You're right, i didn't think of Mystara1 and Mystara2 as 2 alternate realities but different universes for game purposes. You see, the fact is that i'm not trying to explain why OD&D Mystara became AD&D Mystara: it's the same world which can be played with different rules. The Mystara2 i was trying to explain is in fact the link to the AD&D worlds, which i play with OD&D rules (i don't know if i made myself clear..) >Anyway, so what are you saying? Mystara1 and Mystara2 shouldn't be >identical? So the AD&D Mystara should have all it's NPC's renamed, major >battles rethought, calendar's renamed, different star patterns, etc, etc, >etc. Let me guess which world you play in. :-) IMHO yes, cause they're different. AD&D Poor Wizard's Almanac doesn't describe another Mystara: it describes the same Mystara but with a different language (different rules). It's only the system and mechanisms of play that matters here, not the setting (which remains the same, either played with AD&D rules or with OD&D). >If you're looking for a way to justify the existance of the AD&D Mystara >world in your OD&D campaign, then I think you're missing the general point >of the discussion. They're seperate, but except for a few trivial details, >completely identical. Their timelines, major events, major personalities, >flora, fauna, and so on, all as close to identical as possible. That's not >my opinion, it comes from the fact that the OD&D and AD&D poor wizards >almanacs detail the EXACT same world. (Barring a few differences in level >and in the stat translation.) YES!!! That's what i was trying to say: it doesn't matter if u play AD&D or OD&D Mystara, you're playing the same campaign in the same universe! Only the real world rules change, but these have no influence whatsoever on the campaign itself (i could even play Robotech setting with D&D rules, but that wouldn't mean there were 2 different Robotech realities..) >> No way! There are not Mystara1 Immortals in Mystara2 dimension: there are >>the gods described in Planescape campaign book (if u want so9 or maybe other >>gods... but it is possible for Mystara1 Immortals to visit Mystara2 and the >>outer planes of this dimension to meet the other gods (they can do it by >>using avatars, if they don't want to physically leave Multiverse dimension) > >Again, Daniel talks about the 2 Khoronus' meeting and having a discussion, >and talks about Khoronus finding an "alternate timeline" of his own >Mystara. If they're two completely seperate worlds then this is a whole >new discussion. I don't own Planescape and i am not familiar with it, but that's my point of view: Immortals are not AD&D gods at all! AD&D gods don't mess around with mortals so much as Immortals do, and mortals cannot become gods during the game, whereas in OD&D characters can become Immortals. I think Immortals are maybe a little less powerful than AD&D deities... or maybe they have the same powers, but deities seem more powerful cause for some obnoxious reason in the Dimension of Myth where they reign mortals cannot achieve their level (not PC at least). >I think it's an obvious point that each campaign world is it's own >"alternate reality" seperate from all the others and whatever the >"official" Mystara is. I know some people like to harbor the delusion >we're all playing in the exact same campaign world, and get all hot and >bothered when someone does something in their own world that wouldn't mesh >in theirs. (And that's all I have to say about that, I promise.) If i told u what i have prepared for my PC you would kill me outright: it is called The Last Adventure (doesn't it thrills you?) and it could really be the last for all the RPGs (if we assume they exist in different dimensions) >Up until now, however, it was always assumed that somehow OD&D Mystara just >"morphed" into AD&D Mystara one day. Daniel came up with a pretty darn >good idea that the two worlds actually exist together, instead of being a >single one. He then went on to say the two could somehow contact one >another, and I expounded on the problems I saw with 2 nearly identical >worlds dealing with one another. (If they can't contact one another, then >it's still a nice idea but there's not a lot of point to knowing it.) Your >idea about putting Mystara2 into the dimension of Myth is also pretty good, >but I think it's entirely different. Yeah, it's fascinating, but too much brainstaking for me. Anyway, i would be glad to hear the developments of his (Daniel Boese) campaign... >Making them seperate dimensions (or better yet seperate Universes in the >Multiverse) just makes it easier to justify the completely different setup >of planes and other facts of physics that differ in the two worlds (like >spelljamming.) > Yes, i agree again: that was my point and i am glad you see it the same way. > DM (aka Vegeta) "Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola' (That which is not known is enchanting) ------------------------------ From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:16:32 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? Daniel Boese wrote: > Here's an idea that I've been playing with.. The reason Khoronus noticed >the 'gate' between Mystara1 and Mystara2 in the first place was that >Mystara1 was losing.. ah.. call it "reality-ness". He traced where the >"reality-ness" was going, and discovered the "alternate timeline" of >Mystara2 was absorbing it. Now, he's frantically trying to keep his own >Mystara1 from disappearing entirely, being absorbed completely into >Mystara2... > (And if you want to get /really/ silly, he has to go to the "Real World" >dimension and influence the odd subset of people called "gamers" there to >go back to "D&D" instead of "AD&D". :) ) Nice idea, but i think it would be just a Master's joke (if u forgive me the expression), just the master and players having fun and ironizing on the game (as i once did: the paladin of my player was thrown in our world and saved by the future son of my own player who knew how things had gone in the game from the tales of his father... nice and puzzling idea, isn't it?) >> Making them seperate dimensions (or better yet seperate Universes in the >> Multiverse) just makes it easier to justify the completely different setup >> of planes and other facts of physics that differ in the two worlds (like >> spelljamming.) > This is one thing I was considering, save for the fact that as far as I >can tell, according to Planescape there is only one Prime Plane, which is >the Spelljammer system. If I've missed something here, please let me >know.. :) I don't know if this is true, but you can see it this way: there is only one Prime Plane... in the AD&D dimension!(i call it Dimension of Myth) In OD&D (Multiverse Dimension) there is another, but it's a different thing... And what i was trying to say with the idea of 2 dimensions is that you can play them with whatever game system you want: it is not the system that makes them different! It is the campaign setting that is different (so i could end up playng FR or Ravenloft with OD&D rules or you could run Mystara or Stormbringer with AD&D rules, as you like it).. DM (aka Vegeta) "Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola' (That which is not known is enchanting) ------------------------------ From: Shin Chyang Yu Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:01:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? Daniel Boese pontificated: > > Dang, you found my secret purpose in making that post in the first > place.. Ah well, I'm sure we'll find something equally useful to flame > about soon enough. (Anybody care to tackle FNN?) > What is FNN? As for the branching timeline idea, personally, I don't really like it, as it could be too confusing if there are much interaction between the timelines, and I don't really want to see Mystara to become like Star Trek universe where people hopping between timelines/parallel universe fairly often. But it could be a way to "explain" why Mystara is different when ran by different DMs. Of course, there are some DM who don't like the idea of branching Mystara, therefore in their branch of timeline, no other branches exist:). As for Kronous finding the gateway between the From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 13:26:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA19086; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:28:20 +1100 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) id RAA24313 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:40:17 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:40:17 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612192340.RAA24313@lists.io.com> To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V1 #305 Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: caafaf24afd4275a04b563492b1fb75c timelines, I don't think even he is powerful enough to do so. As an immortal of time, he have the power to go foward and backward in time, but not across the timeline. But perhaps finding out about the other timelines could be a quest for an immortal to became the Old One. And if he succeed, a new sphere might even be formed based on his new understanding, while he joins the Old One. John Yu ------------------------------ From: Robert Kaelin Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:24:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals in Planescape? >I assure you this is not the case: i don't own a single Planescape >supplement, so i'm not the right person to pontificate on this subject, but >i have my own ideas.. IMHO, Immortals and AD&D deities are not the same >thing! Could be that Immortals are less powerful than AD&D gods, but i >rather think that the AD&D gods seem more powerful only because they do not >interact so often with mortals as Immortals do (thus retaining their aura of >mystery and power) and especially because for some unknown reason in the >dimension/universe where they rule mortals cannot attain their status, as >common (well, not so common really) mortals do in the Multiverse. >As regards Thor, well it could be he is the same as Odin and the other >deities with the same names, or it could be they are 2 omonimous gods... but >as i think the AD&D gods live in the Dimension of Myth as Gaz7 suggest, i >surmise they (and each other god with the same name of other Immortals) are >the same entity that has established its cult on two different dimensions to >obtain more power.. Satisfied? >DM (aka Vegeta) Oh, one more thing about the "Powers don't interact with their followers as much as Immortals do." Read the book "Prince of Lies" you've got Greater Powers making deals, in avatar form, and in person with giants, dragons, workers, servants, and talking to their priests face-to-face. All on the Prime Plane and mostly in plain view of everyone present. (Even actively casting spells on the prime to shield the view of other Powers into certain projects they're working on.) They're pretty darn "hands on" if you ask me. :-) - -Bob - ------------------------------------------------ Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence Software Developer 725 Concord Ave. (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138 Kaelin@natural.com ------------------------------ From: Robert Kaelin Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:18:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals in Planescape? >At 14.04 18/12/96 -0500, you wrote: >> Perhaps some of you who know the Planescape setting better than I do can >>help me figure this one out. >> Assuming that Mystara exists in the Planescape/Spelljammer continuum, >>what exactly are Immortals? They're mortals who've 'ascended' to divinity, >>which, as far as I remember, is a "no-no" according to Planescape. And >>there's the ever-popular debate about the God/Power Thor being or not >>being the Immortal Thor.. >> Anybody able to clear this up? I have to say I was deeply into the "AD&D Powers and OD&D Immortals are completely seperate beings" as well for quite some time. Then I did a little research. Here's what I've uncovered. 1) Immortals get a "home plane" when they ascend on the outer planes. (Gold Box) Powers get a "Realm" when they ascend and have enough belief in them, also on an Outer Plane. (On Hallowed Ground) There's not much discussion on actually WHEN a power gets a realm, because Powers are created so rarely they've never bothered to do rules on it. It may be that Demi-Powers don't have realms, but that's just my speculation. (Demi-Powers are the "adventuring powers" if you will.) 2) OD&D mortals can become Immortals (Gold Box, Master Set, Rules Encyclopedia etc.) AD&D mortals can become Powers (High level campaigns book, and several instances in novels in Forgotten Realms. In fact, there's a book slated to be released next year that has Fistandalus from Krynn come back, i.e. be ressurected, and is elevated to Demi-Power status.) 3) Immortals rely on belief of their followers. (WotI, if an Immortal loses all their followers they "fade away" but come back if belief in them is restored.) Powers rely on the belief of their followers. (On Hallowed Ground, if a Power loses all followers they "die" and are cast out into the Astral Plane. There are rumors of wasy to bring back dead Powers. In fact that book with Fistandalus I mentioned earlier is supposed to have him fight an even eviler "dead" Power who's followers are working to bring back.) 4) Immortals grant spells, Powers grant spells. 5) Immortals have levels of power, (initiate, temportal, celestial, etc.). Powers have levels of power (Demi-, lesser, intermediate, etc.) 6) Immortals can rise/fall in power. Powers can rise/fall in power. (After "Prince of Lies", the novel, the Power Mask went from being a Greater power to an intermediate one because he gots his hands on a bad artifact.) Frankly, after i unearthed all this I had zero problem porting my Immortals into planescape. I had a much harder time porting my high level mages (with different spells/level and different levels when they get the highest level spells ) then I did the Immortals. I just use the Gold Box and WotI rules to cover all my Powers in AD&D now, even in campaigns that have nothing to do with Mystara. It works quite nicely. As for the Thor the Immortal vs. Thor the Power rules, "On Hallowed Ground" discusses the "Universal Powers" which are common, in one form or another to ALL worlds. Guess who's among them, all the greek, roman and norse powers. Coincidence? (I know there's somewhere in the rules, probably WotI, that specifically states they are not identical, I just choose to ignore that passage.) :-) Hope this helps. - -Bob - ------------------------------------------------ Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence Software Developer 725 Concord Ave. (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138 Kaelin@natural.com ------------------------------ From: BZuber5988@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:55:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Savage Coast In regards to the never-released "Red Steel Campaign Themes" product, I read somewhere on TSR online that "Campaign Themes" was a package of audio CD's and nothing else (except perhaps for a small booklet to explain the CDs). When TSR decided to cancel Red Steel, the product never went into production and so does not exist. The Red Steel Campaign book that you can find on the net (MPGN and AOL) is a different product entirely. I could be wrong, but I am 98% sure I read this in a post from a TSR employee. Delarius ------------------------------ From: Mark Vernon Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:57:12 -0600 Subject: [Mystara] Sind I have been using Mystara for several years now as an AD&D 2ed campaign, = using the original Gaz's and the Dawn of the Empires box set. Listening = in on the list, and the new online supp's from TSR I keep seeing = reference to Sind - where exactly is info on this area available. Mark ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:17:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sind > I have been using Mystara for several years now as an AD&D 2ed campaign, > using the original Gaz's and the Dawn of the Empires box set. Listening > in on the list, and the new online supp's from TSR I keep seeing > reference to Sind - where exactly is info on this area available. The best reference is the oD&D boxed set, "Champions of Mystara". It includes a Gazeteer-like reference on Sind (and Yavdlom, as well). Various details can be found scattered through many other products, including X4, X5, X10, the various Almanacs, and probably a few others. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: rolfs@netway.at (Rolf Schoefnagel) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 20:40:09 GMT Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sind On Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:57:12 -0600, you wrote: >I have been using Mystara for several years now as an AD&D 2ed campaign,= using the original Gaz's and the Dawn of the Empires box set. Listening = in on the list, and the new online supp's from TSR I keep seeing = reference to Sind - where exactly is info on this area available. > > > Mark It shure was no Gazetter. As far as I can remember, it was included in = the boxed set with the Princess of Ark adventures and the rules for flying ships. <_< Rolf Schoefnagel >_> <_< E-Mail: rolfs@netway.at >_> <_< "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way." >_> ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:30:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? > You see, the only problem for Immortals and deities traveling through > alternate realities is the so called "doubling lifeline effect". Actually, in the (ever-popular :) )"Chronomancy & the Multiverse" file, there's a specific mention of how this is gotten around - there's an Immortal-level variant of "Sever Lifeline", which seperates the Immortal from his previous mortal lifeline, cast during their 'ascension'. They have no problems jumping backwards and forwards in time, save for a few things.. such as Time Immortals getting unhappy if they do, being unsure if their 'future self' coming back for a visit is an imposter, and a few other piddly details like that. :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:21:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals in Planescape? > > Assuming that Mystara exists in the Planescape/Spelljammer continuum, > > what exactly are Immortals? > In the DM's option: high-level campaigns > books, what means AD&D and gods, instead of immortals, there are rules for > a PC to become a deity. They are exactly the paths to immortality from > WotI, just underdeveloped (the whole thing occupies just one page). This > makes it clear their oficial position is that immortals and deities are > exactly the same. I'd completely forgotten about the HLC hardcover. Good point - I'll have to re-read that page. > They might have said it differently before (I don't know > about it, though) and I am sure some people will not think they are right, > anyway, but that is certainly their position now. Well, perhaps there's some kludge along the lines of "Immortals are not gods; however, the rules to play them are the same.". :) - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Daniel Boese Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:36:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras? > > Dang, you found my secret purpose in making that post in the first > > place.. Ah well, I'm sure we'll find something equally useful to flame > > about soon enough. (Anybody care to tackle FNN?) > What is FNN? Fantasy News Network, the Adventurer's Journal. It's a sort of net-book of adventures for various gameworlds (including Mystara), put out every few months (when the editor gets enough submissions). > As for the branching timeline idea, personally, I don't > really like it, as it could be too confusing if there are much > interaction between the timelines, and I don't really want to see > Mystara to become like Star Trek universe where people hopping > between timelines/parallel universe fairly often. Well, it wouldn't happen 'fairly often' at all - in all probability, only to the PCs. :) After all, first you have to know about time travel, then you have to find out how to do it, /then/ you have to know about other timelines, and /then/ you have to find out how to do /that/.. And considering the rarity of chronomancers in general on Mystara (not counting Time Immortals), I doubt if there's more than two or three people in Mystara's history who've visited other timelines. > As for Kronous finding the gateway between the > timelines, I don't think even he is powerful enough to do so. As > an immortal of time, he have the power to go foward and backward in > time, but not across the timeline. I suppose we'll just have to disagree on this point; I remember reading somewhere about Khoronus mapping out all of Mystara's timelines. - -- Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1 #305 *****************************