mystara-digest            Friday, 20 December 1996      Volume 01 : Number 306


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: TSRBruce@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:24:45 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sind

In a message dated 96-12-19 15:50:19 EST, Mark vernon wrote:

>I have been using Mystara for several years now as an AD&D 2ed campaign,
>using the original Gaz's and the Dawn of the Empires box set. Listening in
on
>the list, and the new online supp's from TSR I keep seeing reference to Sind
>- where exactly is info on this area available.

Try Dave Cook's modules X4 and X5, Master of the Desert Nomads and Temple of
Death. Info on Sind also exists in the Champions of Mystara boxed set, and
one of the episodes of the Princess Ark in Dragon Magazine. The Savage Coast
setting also have some info on Sind (download the files from the MPGN).

Bruce Heard


------------------------------

From: Enrique Pacheco <al704182@campus.ccm.itesm.mx>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:59:56 -0600
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sind

You can find the original information of Sind in the X? modules

Master of the Desert Nomads
Temple of Death

- -- 
"Too much lov will kill you
in the end..."
Too much love will kill you. Queen, 1995.
Enrique Pacheco. Email: pach@mail.geocities.com

------------------------------

From: Fabrizio Paoli <lu000122@lunet.it>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:18:54 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sind

At 09.57 19/12/96 -0600, you wrote:
>I have been using Mystara for several years now as an AD&D 2ed campaign,
using the original Gaz's and the Dawn of the Empires box set. Listening in
on the list, and the new online supp's from TSR I keep seeing reference to
Sind - where exactly is info on this area available.
>
Champions of Mystara Boxed Set

**************
Fabrizio Paoli                  brizio@lunet.it            
DM in City Of The Stars 
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html 
                                        


------------------------------

From: Fabrizio Paoli <lu000122@lunet.it>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:18:57 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortal needed

At 08.40 18/12/96 -0700, you wrote:
>On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
>
>> Gaea ? I looked in the Codex of Immortals (WotI) but didn't find her. Maybe
>> she's listed under another name. Can you give me more info.
>
>That's my bad- I meant, Djaea, the Immortal whois interested in worlds 
>and their well being. Gaea, Djaea- potatoes, potatoes... (Hmm, that looks 
>the same when written, doesn't it? Well, you know the saying, I'm sure. :)

But with Djaea we have again the same problem that we had with Terra: his
followers cannot be chaotic.

**************
Fabrizio Paoli                  brizio@lunet.it            
DM in City Of The Stars 
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html 
                                        


------------------------------

From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:12:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: FNN (was:[Mystara] Two Mystaras?)

At 03:36 PM 12/19/96 -0500, you wrote:
>> >  <grin> Dang, you found my secret purpose in making that post in the=
 first
>> > place.. Ah well, I'm sure we'll find something equally useful to flame
>> > about soon enough. (Anybody care to tackle FNN?)
>
>> What is FNN?=20
> Fantasy News Network, the Adventurer's Journal. It's a sort of net-book
>of adventures for various gameworlds (including Mystara), put out every
>few months (when the editor gets enough submissions).
>
I've seen it, and I thought it was pretty cool.  Are there some problems
with it, or was that a joke?=20

 /=AF=AF|=AF=AF\    /=AF\/=AF\    /=AF=AF=AF=AF\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/    =20
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net


------------------------------

From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:08:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Yggdrasil (was Re: Mythology)

At 03:38 AM 11/29/96 -0600, you wrote:
>>I guess I just got too into certain subjects of mythology and forgot to
>>reply to this part.  ;)
>
><G>
>
>>Alfheim-light elves
>>Asgard-Aesir gods
>>Darkalfheim-dwarves(dark elves)
>>Gimle-heaven & the heavens
>>Jotunheim-frost giants
>>Midgard-man's world
>>Musphellheim-realm of fire
>>Niflheim-the infernal regions!
>>vanaheim-Vanir gods
>
>Jotunheim is home to all the various Giants and Etins, not merely the Frost
>Giants.
>Niflheim is the realm of ice and mist, not the infernal regions (that would
>be Hel).
>Hel, BTW, is not a burning, fiery place of punishment...it's a dreary,
>boring place where those who did not die in battle spend their=
 after-existance.
>
>Gimle?????  From whence comes Gimle?
>There is no Gimle in Norse mythology.
>
In the book "D'Aulaires' Norse Gods and Giants" it is there, and maybe one
or two others.  It seems logical to me since they took Ymir's skull and in
it placed the sun, moon, and stars.  Maybe some afterlife-type outer planes
could go on top of his skull, or in the eye sockets or nose hole...
somewhere heavenly but still invisible to mortals below.

>Though you didn't mention Hel, so whatever source you are using forgot to
>mention Hel and replaced it with this Gimle place.
>
Well not exactly, what I have usually seen says that Hel is a part of
Niflheim, just like Valhalla and Gladsheim are parts of Asgard, or they are
one and the same (I prefer the former of the two, so it leaves it more open
to mess around with, without having to warp it.)

>>The only idea I have had so far for the elemntal
>>planes is making them all different parts of Musphellheim, but I'm not=
 sure
>>if I would want to bend mythology that way. =20
>
>Muspelheim could be the Elemental plane of Fire...Vanaheim the Elemental
>plane of Earth...Niflheim could be Water...Jotunheim could be Air...
>Well, I like all of them but Jotunheim...
>Maybe Svartalfheim would fit better as Earth...Niflheim as Air...Muspelheim
>as Fire...Alfheim as Air...
>That makes Jotunheim the Negative Energy plane, and Vanaheim the Postive
>Energy plane...
>Hrm...or maybe we could make those be Hel and Asgaard respectively...
>
I agree Darkalfheim/Svartalfheim is good for earth.  Well if you did that,
you might have to change mythology a little too much, I wouldn't want to
have an Alfheim or Niflheim full of water.  I use OD&D inner planes, so I'm
not going to mess around with positive/negative stuff, since I can't think
of any solutions anyway.

>Of course, so some of these might also double as Outer Planes...The World
>Tree could represent BOTH levels of reality...the Inner Planes and the=
 Outer
>Planes...
>
I think if the tree is used, maybe it should contain all the planes in its
multiverse.  However, the Astral plane would work well as Ginungagap, and
could lead to other multiverses.  Isn't there something like that in one of
the immortals sets... oh crud, I forgot, some descriptions say Ymir's blood
filled that abyss up... has anyone read a description implying Ginungagap
didn't get filled up?  Alas, I doubt it, since almost every mythology and
religion has a major flood story.  The Astral plane could just be the
atmosphere around it, but that doesn't seem as cool.

>>Old Alphatia could have been a part of Musphellheim and then it separated
>somhow
>
>Hrm...could have been...or maybe part of the mixing of
>Muspelheim/Niflheim...since the original war was between the Followers of
>Fire and the Followers of Air.
>
>Now, on to the Outer Planes view of the tree...
>The way the tree is set up is as follows :
>
>YGGDRASIL
>---------
>
>1. Asgaard              1
>2. Vanaheim          2  4  3
>3. Niflheim             5
>4. Alfheim           7  6  8
>5. Midgaard             9
>6. Svartalfheim
>7. Muspelheim
>8. Jotunheim
>9. Hel
>
Even many reliable sources give varying descriptions on this map, sadly.
Some say that Niflheim and Musphellheim were N and S, at the bottom of the
tree, with Midgard in between.  I've seen descriptions that say it has 3
large roots going into Asgard, Jotunheim, and Niflheim.  One description
excluded Asgard and said it went *beside* the one of the fountains of the
Norns.  Luckily, these two work together.  That reminds me, Hvergelmir could
contain the elemental plane of water.  If you use Gimle, the lower part of
it could contain elemental air.  I'm not getting into all the weird
elemental planes of AD&D, i'd say stick with the D&D ones or It might be
interesting to say these roots could contain the largest, oldest natural
wormholes/vortices, whatever. According to all these often-found views,
Midgard could be at the intersection of all three roots, and the Bifrost
bridge could follow one to Asgard. Darkalfheim/Svartalfheim (Does "svart"
mean dark, or what?) is often said to be under Midgard.  Where did you come
up with your map?  I'm interested if your sources differ from mine so=
 much...

>Since each of the Outer Planes is linked to a particular alignment, I would
>assign each the following...
>Asgaard :       Chaotic Good            Gladsheim
>Vanaheim :      Lawful Good             Twin Paradises
>Alfheim :       Neutral Good            Arcadia
>Niflheim :      Chaotic Neutral         Limbo
>Midgaard :      Neutral                 Concordant Opposition
>Svartalfheim :  Neutral Evil            Pandemonium
>Muspelheim :    Lawful Neutral          Gehenna
>Jotunheim :     Chaotic Evil            Tarterus
>Hel :           Lawful Evil             Archeron
>
That is indeed a creative solution, but I wouldn't do it that way, since I'm
somewhat conservative about changing mythology after I saw how T$R warped
it.  If it worked for the creator of Manual of the Planes and other people,
then great for them, but I'd like to use a solution that does justice to all
mythology used.  Also, Gladsheim is Odin's golden palace, and there is also
Valhalla, and Thor's palace, and Odin's high throne, etc., which belong in
Asgard.  Many of these planes come from mythology of other cultures and have
descriptions all their own.  Limbo is right outside of the gates of the nine
hells according to Dante's "Divine Comedy".  I think Arcadia was just a
simple place on earth, but I'm not sure.  Acheron is one of the five Greek
rivers of the infernal realms, including Cocytus, Lethe, Phlegethon and
Styx.  For these reasons, I think placing infernal planes in Niflheim/Hel is
good, as it is indeed an appropriate place, and the infernal rivers could
come out of Hvergelmir, which is in/by Niflheim/Hel, thus still be in the
place they are said to be in Greek and Roman mythology.  If you wanted to
add hells from other cultures, it might get tedious, or impossible having to
find new places, so I'd say throw 'em all in Hel.  If you don't want to use
Gimle, maybe Asgard and Vanaheim would be a good place to put heaven-type of
places, as the Aesir and Vanir are the gods, and one or more gods are
normally associated with these areas.  As for concordant opposition, maybe
it should be parts of Asgard, Vanahem, and Niflheim/Hel, if it could be set
up that way.

I'm not even going to try to map what I found and my thoughts on the subject
at this time. it would probably need several different perspectives.

>Well, if there is one thing this exercise has taught me, it's that the=
 Norse
>World Tree doesn't fit at all well into the D&D cosmology!
>Anybody have any better suggestions for which planes would be which?
>
I think that it can fit very well but we do have to think about it.
Hmmm, I wonder where Pandius could go... I'm not sure if it is appropriate
to put it in Asgard since I think Pandius is supposed to only contain the
city of Pandius.  Am I wrong?  Any solutions on this one?


 /=AF=AF|=AF=AF\    /=AF\/=AF\    /=AF=AF=AF=AF\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/    =20
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net


------------------------------

From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:46:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mystara] Re: mythology

I kind of gave up our Odin vs. Zeus debate, it gets boring just arguing,
because I think anyone who researched mythology in-depth could probably
"prove" it either way.  I guess we just have our preferences and even
prejudices - early at school I was taught, as many people are, about only
Greek and Roman mythology.  That pisses me off, they should teach all
mythology because it's all cool.  Now I'm starting to think that in rpg's
Odin & Zeus should be equal overall.

>>These quotes from The New Larouse Encyclopedia of Mythology are examples=
 of
>why I
>>say Zeus would defeat Odin in one-on-one combat: "He was omnipotent, he=
 saw
>>everything and he knew everything."=20
>
>For an omnipotent, omniscient God...he did some rather less than omni=
 things
>in his time...(not to mention, in all the years I've studied mythology, I
>have NEVER heard this said about Zeus)
>
Well, I've never seen a book that said he was perfect and didn't have
character flaws, is that what you mean?

>Hrm...and why was this? (what does it say about this 'later')
>Because he dies at Ragnarok via wolf-jaws?
>He certainly had eternal youth, via Idun's golden apples.
>
Without those he would age though, and I must admit, according to some
sources, Greek gods needed a similar thing, it was nectar and/or ambrosia,
or maybe also golden apples.

>He was the Master of more than merely magic...much, much more.
>Go back and read all his titles again.  In actuality, he had over a hundred
>of them.
Go back and read them where?  Does Kevin Crosby's "Norse Myths", the book
you mentioned earlier contain over a hundred of Odin's titles?  If it does,
then I must indeed find it and read it asap!

>>I'm wondering where you heard that Odin is the "Maker of the Universe as=
 we
>>know it."  Scandinavian myth has a chaos theory.=20
>
>Actually, it's not a 'chaos' theory...it's a duality (fire and ice).
>
Well then, I meant the universe was there before the gods and things just
appeared by themselves, without needing the gods to do it.  I'm intrigued,
is "duality" your way of describing it, or have you seen books or articles
discussing basic types of creation theories of myth and religion?

>>><G> Ah!  Yep!  Except that other Primes are possible, you don't need a
>>>forest (Yggdrasil is supposed to encompass EVERYTHING...nothing exists
>>>outside it), within the tree...just make them part of Midgaard...but how=
 to
>>>go about handling planes?  Branches of the tree?  Parts of Asgaard and
>>>Niflheim and Vanaheim and Jotunheim, etc?  There are Nine worlds on the
>>>
>>Was not the abyss there before Yggdrasil?  Does not Yggdrasil exist within
>>it? =20
>
>No and No.
>Yggdrasil was before all and after all.  It is eternal.  Not even Odin
>"knows or will know the roots of that ancient tree."  There was no 'Abyss'
>in Norse myths...I'm begining to wonder what you've been reading...
>There was Muspel (realm of fire) and Niflheim (realm of ice), and where=
 they
>met, Ginnungagap, where the fire melted the ice and the icewater turned the
>fire to steam...this is where Ymir (the evil Frost Giant, first Being) was
>formed.
>
Hmmm, something I read described Ginnungagap as an abyss, and you're right,
I looked at the Larouse Encyclopedia and it said the abyss was filled with
Ymir's blood, so Yggdrasil can't exist in it.  But now I can't find
Ginnungaggap in there when I wanted to reread the part about it, by Thor's
hammer, Mjolnir!  It must be in another book.

>>The mortal gods of Norse myth are slain at the end in Ragnarok, by
>>mortal forst giants, and Tyr got his hand bit off (by Fenrir I believe),=
 but
>>he didn't have the power to make a new form. =20
>
>Actually, a number of the Gods survive and go on to remake the world.
>
but some still *died*, which is my point.  Of course, there are rumors of
hearing Sleipnir's hooves after Ragnarok.  Anyway, screw Ragnarok!  It makes
me mad, since it was probably a creation of "Christians" used to warp and
destroy the native mythology and religion. =20


 /=AF=AF|=AF=AF\    /=AF\/=AF\    /=AF=AF=AF=AF\
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|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
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              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net


------------------------------

From: The Daegmorgan Family <sleipnir@northernnet.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:08:07 -0600
Subject: [Mystara] I'll be gone for a bit

Just letting you know I'm unsubscribing from the mailing list until I get
back from vacation!  (I don't want to spend a day downloading mail! :)  )
See you all when I get back.

Dave, I'll be thinking about the whole Yggdrasil ---> Mystara thing while
I'm gone!  Hopefully I'll have some good ideas about it!

- -Oarim


------------------------------

From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 23:00:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (MOrient team please read) Re: [Mystara] Hello...

At 12:12 AM 12/12/96 +1100, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>       I'm new to the list, so howdy all. I'm from Australia, and have been
>playing in Mystara for about 12 years now. I stopped playing for a bit,
>and have just recently started playing in Mystara again. I'm quite
>surprised by the changes that have gone on since I've been away. It's
>changed to AD&D, all of the re-ordering that has gone on in the timeline
>etc. Not only that, but the whole line has been cancled. What a darn
>shame. I'd be very happy to keep it going with personal contributions to
>the world - though I will have to get back up to date with what's been
>hapening in the world recently, first. I believe that it may be a very
>good thing for Mystara to be transported from T$R's clutches to the
>internet - a fresh breath into the world.
>
That basically sounds like a good idea, it got me thinking, and I wrote
about a page of important thoughts related to this, organized into a
hopefully interesting essay.  Would anyone like me to send it to them, or
would it be appropriate to post it to the list?  That reminds me, I
apologize for the mythology posting if it was too off-subject.  I intended
to send it individually, but made an error after being sleep-deprived from
staying up late tracking a techno module.
               =20
        I've got -almost- all of the origional D&D moduals in Mystara, and
>consequently, have all of the Blackmoor ones, except the last one. If
>there's any info that's needed regarding these, I'd be happy to provide.
>       Anyway, I hope to be chatting way with you all soon about my favorite
>D&D setting...
>
Many of us on the list are collaborating to create an Oriental and Asian
setting for Mystara on Skothar.  There was a timeline posted a while ago
that mentioned the Blackmoor civilization there.  Since this is a serious
project, and a big one, the MOrient team should learn what all the sources
of Skothar information are, and who has them, so we can tell each other what
we need to know know.  Is there anyone on the list that knows all the
sources of Skothar information by any chance?  I'm curious about what it
says about Skothar in the Blackmoor modules.

 /=AF=AF|=AF=AF\    /=AF\/=AF\    /=AF=AF=AF=AF\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/    =20
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net


------------------------------

From: The Daegmorgan Family <sleipnir@northernnet.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:05:30 -0600
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: mythology

At 05:46 PM 12/19/96 -0800, you wrote:
>I kind of gave up our Odin vs. Zeus debate, it gets boring just arguing,
>because I think anyone who researched mythology in-depth could probably
>"prove" it either way.

Agreed.

In my school, we were never even TAUGHT mythology.  Pretty sad, I think.  I
was always jealous of kids at other schools where it was taught.

>>For an omnipotent, omniscient God...he did some rather less than omni things
>>in his time...(not to mention, in all the years I've studied mythology, I
>>have NEVER heard this said about Zeus)
>>
>Well, I've never seen a book that said he was perfect and didn't have
>character flaws, is that what you mean?

Well, what I mean is that for someone with the ability to see and hear and
know everything, he certainly was clueless about his wife Hera's plots in
response to his sleeping around.

>>He was the Master of more than merely magic...much, much more.
>>Go back and read all his titles again.  In actuality, he had over a hundred
>>of them.
>
>Go back and read them where?  

I was referring to the ones I listed.

>Does Kevin Crosby's "Norse Myths", the book
>you mentioned earlier contain over a hundred of Odin's titles?  If it does,
>then I must indeed find it and read it asap!

I believe he may have a short list, but your best bet is one of the
annotated versions of the Eddas.

>>Actually, it's not a 'chaos' theory...it's a duality (fire and ice).
>>
>Well then, I meant the universe was there before the gods and things just
>appeared by themselves, without needing the gods to do it.  I'm intrigued,
>is "duality" your way of describing it, 

Not just mine.  However, fire and ice (two polar opposites) mixing and
creating everything can certainly be viewed as a "duality."

>or have you seen books or articles discussing basic types of creation
theories >of myth and religion?

Yes.  Try Joseph Campbell.  
I've seen it mentioned as a duality elsewhere, though I don't recall offhand.

>>Yggdrasil was before all and after all.  It is eternal.  Not even Odin
>>"knows or will know the roots of that ancient tree."  
>>
>Hmmm, something I read described Ginnungagap as an abyss, and you're right,
>I looked at the Larouse Encyclopedia and it said the abyss was filled with
>Ymir's blood, so Yggdrasil can't exist in it.  But now I can't find
>Ginnungaggap in there when I wanted to reread the part about it, by Thor's
>hammer, Mjolnir!  It must be in another book.

Heh.

>>Actually, a number of the Gods survive and go on to remake the world.
>>
>but some still *died*, which is my point.  Of course, there are rumors of
>hearing Sleipnir's hooves after Ragnarok.  Anyway, screw Ragnarok!  It makes
>me mad, since it was probably a creation of "Christians" used to warp and
>destroy the native mythology and religion.  

Actually, it was most likely based on an older myth with some changes.
The myth of Baldr is more likely to be a Christian-influenced creation, as
the marks of such are apparent in that myth.

BTW, Kevin Crosby's "Norse Myths" makes mention of Nidavellir as a world
(World of the Dwarves), which I have never heard of before...not to mention
that the Dwarves and Dark Elves are interchangable and Nidavellir is most
likely just the enterance from Midgaard into Svartalfheim.
My point, there are any number of books out there, even good ones, with
blatant errors.

- -Oarim


------------------------------

From: The Daegmorgan Family <sleipnir@northernnet.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:05:26 -0600
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Yggdrasil (was Re: Mythology)

At 05:08 PM 12/19/96 -0800, you wrote:
>At 03:38 AM 11/29/96 -0600, you wrote:

>>>Alfheim-light elves
>>>Asgard-Aesir gods
>>>Darkalfheim-dwarves(dark elves)
>>>Gimle-heaven & the heavens
>>>Jotunheim-frost giants
>>>Midgard-man's world
>>>Musphellheim-realm of fire
>>>Niflheim-the infernal regions!
>>>vanaheim-Vanir gods
>>
>>Gimle?????  From whence comes Gimle?
>>There is no Gimle in Norse mythology.
>>
>In the book "D'Aulaires' Norse Gods and Giants" it is there, and maybe one
>or two others.  

No reputable source then.  I say this because the Nine Worlds are listed in
any number of sources, and Gimle does not appear anywhere within them.  Not
to mention, I take Norse mythology VERY seriously, it is part of my religion.
I can ask a number of Norse scholars I know, if you wish, but I know the
answer I will get will be "There is no World called Gimle"...mayhaps the
writers of the books you mention confused the Norse term for the heavens
(the sky) with an actual World on the World Tree.

The only reference I have found to a "Gimle" is "Gimli", the hall the
surviving Gods will inhabit after Ragnarok...it is no where close to even
being one of the Nine Worlds.

>It seems logical to me since they took Ymir's skull and in
>it placed the sun, moon, and stars.  Maybe some afterlife-type outer planes
>could go on top of his skull, or in the eye sockets or nose hole...
>somewhere heavenly but still invisible to mortals below.

The afterlife planes were Asgaard (for heroes) or Hel (for cowards), so
there is no need to fit them in anywhere else.

>>Though you didn't mention Hel, so whatever source you are using forgot to
>>mention Hel and replaced it with this Gimle place.
>>
>Well not exactly, what I have usually seen says that Hel is a part of
>Niflheim, just like Valhalla and Gladsheim are parts of Asgard, 

URP!  I'd get some new sources!  Valhalla and Gladsheim are two halls in a
World, whereas Hel is a world unto itself, existing independently of
Niflheim (which was one of the first two Worlds...the one of Ice...which
flowed into Ginnungagap to created the Universe from which Ymir was born).

>or they are one and the same (I prefer the former of the two, so it leaves
it >more open to mess around with, without having to warp it.)

Unfortunately, such is already warped, at least from the traditional view
of Norse cosmology. :)

>>Muspelheim could be the Elemental plane of Fire...Vanaheim the Elemental
>>plane of Earth...Niflheim could be Water...Jotunheim could be Air...
>>Well, I like all of them but Jotunheim...
>>Maybe Svartalfheim would fit better as Earth...Niflheim as Air...Muspelheim
>>as Fire...Alfheim as Air...
>>That makes Jotunheim the Negative Energy plane, and Vanaheim the Postive
>>Energy plane...
>>Hrm...or maybe we could make those be Hel and Asgaard respectively...
>>
>I agree Darkalfheim/Svartalfheim is good for earth.  Well if you did that,
>you might have to change mythology a little too much, I wouldn't want to
>have an Alfheim or Niflheim full of water.  

Ooops!  I meant Niflheim as Water (being that it was the world of Ice...and
that is the only thing that comes close to being water...which it turns
into once close to Muspellheim and flowing through Ginnungagap).

>I think if the tree is used, maybe it should contain all the planes in its
>multiverse.  However, the Astral plane would work well as Ginungagap, and
>could lead to other multiverses.  Isn't there something like that in one of
>the immortals sets... oh crud, I forgot, some descriptions say Ymir's blood
>filled that abyss up... has anyone read a description implying Ginungagap
>didn't get filled up?  

Ginnungagap doesn't really exist anymore, it was where the begining
universe was built.  Sort of the foundation of reality, not a seperate
portion of it.  Though it could work well as the Astral plane in AD&D terms.

>Alas, I doubt it, since almost every mythology and religion has a major
flood >story.  

The Norse flood story comes at Ragnarok, actually.

>>YGGDRASIL
>>---------
>>
>>1. Asgaard              1
>>2. Vanaheim          2  4  3
>>3. Niflheim             5
>>4. Alfheim           7  6  8
>>5. Midgaard             9
>>6. Svartalfheim
>>7. Muspelheim
>>8. Jotunheim
>>9. Hel
>>
>Even many reliable sources give varying descriptions on this map, sadly.
>Some say that Niflheim and Musphellheim were N and S, at the bottom of the
>tree, with Midgard in between.  

I'd like the titles of these "reputable sources" for my own reference.
There seems to be a great deal of bad information floating around out
there...of course, some places still publish Budge's works on Egypt...so I
suppose any hack with a pen can write a book on it...

However, I should have clarified...above, four worlds float around the
central world, Midgaard, on the same level (meaning neither above nor
below)...those are Vanaheim, Jotunheim, Muspelheim and Niflheim...

>I've seen descriptions that say it has 3 large roots going into Asgard,
>Jotunheim, and Niflheim.  

That is correct.

>One description
>excluded Asgard and said it went *beside* the one of the fountains of the
>Norns.

The author apparently did not realize that the root does indeed curl into
Asgaard, into the well of Urd (meaning destiny)(hence the Norns).  The Gods
hold court here every day.

>Luckily, these two work together.  

They are supposed too! :)

>That reminds me, Hvergelmir could contain the elemental plane of water.  

Hvergelmir is within Niflheim, and is only a spring (though it births the
eleven rivers)...thus Niflheim is the best choice for the Plane of Water.

>If you use Gimle, the lower part of it could contain elemental air.

I'm begining to wonder if some author did not mistake Alfheim or Vanaheim
for Gimle?

>I'm not getting into all the weird
>elemental planes of AD&D, i'd say stick with the D&D ones or It might be
>interesting to say these roots could contain the largest, oldest natural
>wormholes/vortices, whatever.  According to all these often-found views,
>Midgard could be at the intersection of all three roots, and the Bifrost
>bridge could follow one to Asgard.

Bifrost bridge would run independent of the roots.

> Darkalfheim/Svartalfheim (Does "svart" mean dark, or what?)

Basically.

>is often said to be under Midgard.  Where did you come
>up with your map?  I'm interested if your sources differ from mine so much...

Yep, that's where it is!

A number of sources:
The main source was a lesson from the Denali Institute of Runic
Studies...though I've seen the same map in any number of books...books by
Kveldulf Gundarsson and by Edred Thorsson, "Norse Magic" by DJ Conway has
the copy of an old woodplate in it with a similar map (though with the
roots and wells, etc)(other than that, not much of a source).
And the source of all sources, the Eddas.

>>Since each of the Outer Planes is linked to a particular alignment, I would
>>assign each the following...
>>Asgaard :       Chaotic Good            Gladsheim
>>Vanaheim :      Lawful Good             Twin Paradises
>>Alfheim :       Neutral Good            Arcadia
>>Niflheim :      Chaotic Neutral         Limbo
>>Midgaard :      Neutral                 Concordant Opposition
>>Svartalfheim :  Neutral Evil            Pandemonium
>>Muspelheim :    Lawful Neutral          Gehenna
>>Jotunheim :     Chaotic Evil            Tarterus
>>Hel :           Lawful Evil             Archeron
>>
>That is indeed a creative solution, but I wouldn't do it that way, since I'm
>somewhat conservative about changing mythology after I saw how T$R warped
>it.  If it worked for the creator of Manual of the Planes and other people,
>then great for them, but I'd like to use a solution that does justice to all
>mythology used.  Also, Gladsheim is Odin's golden palace, 

Actually, Gladsheim means "Place of Joy", a hall where Odin and a number of
other Gods held High Seats.

>and there is also Valhalla

"Hall of the Slain", where the dead warriors feast and fight, awaiting
Ragnarok.

>and Thor's palace

Thrudheim "Place of Might"

>and Odin's high throne, etc., which belong in Asgard.

Hlidskjalf "Hill opening or Rock-opening", from where Odin could see all
that transpired in all the Nine Worlds, in Valaskjalf "Shelf of the Slain",
Odin's hall in Asgaard.

>If you don't want to use Gimle, maybe Asgard and Vanaheim would be a good
>place to put heaven-type of places, as the Aesir and Vanir are the gods,
and >one or more gods are normally associated with these areas.

Hrm...I'm still curious about this Gimle place...I've never heard it
mentioned in any legends or myths, so what is it's function (according to
your sources?).  In Norse mythology, Asgaard was the final resting place of
heroes and warriors who died in battle ("heaven") and Hel (a boring place,
not fire and damnation) was where cowards and old men went when they died.
Thus, Gimle as "heaven" would be repetitive and unecessary, since the Norse
cosmology already has places for the slain to go.

>>Well, if there is one thing this exercise has taught me, it's that the Norse
>>World Tree doesn't fit at all well into the D&D cosmology!
>>Anybody have any better suggestions for which planes would be which?
>>
>I think that it can fit very well but we do have to think about it.
>Hmmm, I wonder where Pandius could go... I'm not sure if it is appropriate
>to put it in Asgard since I think Pandius is supposed to only contain the
>city of Pandius.  Am I wrong?  Any solutions on this one?

No idea.  I'll have to think about it...
(Why not just keep it on the moon?)

- -Oarim


------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #306
*****************************




mystara-digest           Saturday, 21 December 1996     Volume 01 : Number 307


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:40:42 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras?

>> What is FNN? 
> Fantasy News Network, the Adventurer's Journal. It's a sort of net-book
>of adventures for various gameworlds (including Mystara), put out every
>few months (when the editor gets enough submissions).

Where do I find FNN? How can I submit? Is there any other important stuff, I
should know about FNN?


***************************************************************************
                                Peter Balazs
                          (a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at)
                     http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
***************************************************************************


------------------------------

From: Enoch Peserico <enoch@anna.dei.unipd.it>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:59:30 +0100
Subject: [Mystara] test

Hmmm, I have subscribed but I seem to get no messages...

------------------------------

From: Enoch Peserico <enoch@anna.dei.unipd.it>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 15:41:35 +0100
Subject: [Mystara] Shadowelves' class&level limits

Hello everybody! I'm new to the list, so perhaps what I'm asking is common
knowledge - although it's not listed in the faq- please bear with me. I was
wondering how shadowelves get treated in the AD&D (2nd edition) conversion
as far as level limits and multiclass combinations go.
I have seen the "official" (by ?Monte Cook?) doc at MPGN where the limits
F15/W18/C15/T10 are given (all higher than normal elves', F12-but
R15/W15/C12/T12, except for the thief class, which is stated as something
shadowelves aren't very good at- which IMHO is queer considering all the
stuff about the second shadow), and the only possible multi-class
combinations are listed as F/W, T/W, C/W - which again is queer IMHO: I can
understand no F/W/C as even in D&D-gaz13 shamans are not allowed to advance
"as fighters", but IMHO many of the second shadow, being drawn from the
army, SHOULD be F/T/W.
On the other hand Joshua's journal lists Porphyriel, the radiant shaman, as
a F12/W15/C12, clearly using "standard elf" level limits, without even the
benefit of the *exceeding level limits rule*- which gets however used for
characters in the Glantri boxed set,- and using a multiclass combination
which is not be allowed in the "official" doc at MPGN.
How's that?

Enoch


------------------------------

From: Max Wilcox <s333271@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 00:08:53 +1100
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) Re: [Mystara] Hello...

David Melik wrote:
> That basically sounds like a good idea, it got me thinking, and I wrote
> about a page of important thoughts related to this, organized into a
> hopefully interesting essay.  Would anyone like me to send it to them, or
> would it be appropriate to post it to the list?  That reminds me, I
> apologize for the mythology posting if it was too off-subject.  I intended
> to send it individually, but made an error after being sleep-deprived from
> staying up late tracking a techno module.

        I'd be interested in seeing it, so you could post it to me (or just
post it to the list - that is if anyone else's interested).
        On a similar topic, does anyone know what the address is to write to,
if one wished to tell TSR that they miss the Mystara line and want it
back? Is this worthwhile?
 
> Many of us on the list are collaborating to create an Oriental and Asian
> setting for Mystara on Skothar.  There was a timeline posted a while ago
> that mentioned the Blackmoor civilization there.  Since this is a serious
> project, and a big one, the MOrient team should learn what all the sources
> of Skothar information are, and who has them, so we can tell each other what
> we need to know know.  Is there anyone on the list that knows all the
> sources of Skothar information by any chance?  I'm curious about what it
> says about Skothar in the Blackmoor modules.

        I'll dig out my Blackmoor modules but I don't remember much in them
about Skothar. I'll post anything I find.

- -Max Wilcox

------------------------------

From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:44:31 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sind

At 09.57 19/12/96 -0600, you wrote:
>I have been using Mystara for several years now as an AD&D 2ed campaign,
using the original Gaz's and the Dawn of the Empires box set. Listening in
on the list, and the new online supp's from TSR I keep seeing reference to
Sind - where exactly is info on this area available.
>
>
>                                       Mark
>
You can find a complete description of Sind, its habits and ways, its
religious orders and its mumlykets (provinces) as well as a map in Champions
of Mystara boxed set. Hope to be of any help.

------------------------------

From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:58:00 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] test

At 14.59 20/12/96 +0100, you wrote:
>Hmmm, I have subscribed but I seem to get no messages...
>
U must wait at least one day (capito?) Then your e-mail will become full
every day!

------------------------------

From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:21:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras?

> >> What is FNN? 
> > Fantasy News Network, the Adventurer's Journal. It's a sort of net-book
> >of adventures for various gameworlds (including Mystara), put out every
> >few months (when the editor gets enough submissions).
> Where do I find FNN? How can I submit? Is there any other important stuff, I
> should know about FNN?
 You can find it at http://skaro.lawlib.wm.edu/~msphil/fnn/
 I'm not sure how to submit, but you might wish to ask the editor,
msphil@birds.wm.edu
 About the only other important stuff you should know is that it's
entirely fan-generated, not official, and probably contradicts itself at
least once. :)

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca


------------------------------

From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:23:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: FNN (was:[Mystara] Two Mystaras?)

> >> > Ah well, I'm sure we'll find something equally useful to flame
> >> > about soon enough. (Anybody care to tackle FNN?)
> >> What is FNN? 
> > Fantasy News Network, the Adventurer's Journal. It's a sort of net-book
> >of adventures for various gameworlds (including Mystara), put out every
> >few months (when the editor gets enough submissions).
> I've seen it, and I thought it was pretty cool.  Are there some problems
> with it, or was that a joke? 
 Not quite problems, just.. well, I never had to chance to see if it was
possible to fit into the timelines without major editing. I believe that
some of the ideas in FNN were placed in a 'future' timeline somebody
posted, but it might have just been something similar.

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca


------------------------------

From: Mark Vernon <mark@dwx.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 15:15:45 -0600
Subject: [Mystara] Princess Ark Series

Can someone please give me a list of the Dragon magazines that contain =
the Princess Ark articles. Were there more maps than those included in =
the Orc's Head Peninsual Campaign from MPGN ? Does anyone have these in =
electronic format ?

                                                        Mark

------------------------------

From: "Kevin Finn Augenstein" <kevinaug@ihug.co.nz>
Date: 21 Dec 96 12:20:05 +1300
Subject: [Mystara] Orcs Head Online

Can anyone please tell me the difference between the downloadable files at
the MPGN site.  Do I need to download them all or are they all the same.

- ---------------------------------------------------------
Cyberdog ---A Product of Apple Computer, Inc.
- ---------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------

From: Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@PostOffice.WorldNet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 01:47:49 +0000
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Orcs Head Online

At 11:20 PM 12/20/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Can anyone please tell me the difference between the downloadable files at
>the MPGN site.  Do I need to download them all or are they all the same.

TSR2522a.zip contains a number of black and white maps to accompany the
adventures in 
        the campaign book
TSR2522h.zip contains more of these black and white maps, as well as the
color hexmaps
        from the Princess Ark series in Dragon Magazine (great maps)
TSR2522r.zip contains two .rtf documents.  The larger one contains
descriptions of the 
        Orc's Head setting, rules for a number of different character races,
and basic
        campaign information.  The smaller document has four adventures set
on the 
        Orc's Head and Arm of the Immortals Penninsulas.
TSR2522t.zip contains the same two books as TSR2522r, but it has both .rtf
and .txt         formats.  Don't bother with this unless you can't view .rtf
documents.

hope this helps
Patrick


------------------------------

From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 21:07:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Princess Ark Series

On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, Mark Vernon wrote:
> Can someone please give me a list of the Dragon magazines that contain
> the Princess Ark articles. Were there more maps than those included in
> the Orc's Head Peninsual Campaign from MPGN ? Does anyone have these in
> electronic format ?
 Most of the "in-character" logs can be found in the boxed set, "Champions
of Mystara". However, most of the geographical, political, and other such
details were removed. The actual "Voyages of the Princess Ark" are found
in Dragons #153 - #158, and #160 - #188. A sort of sequel to the Voyages,
the "Known World Grimoire", is in issues #189 - #200 (skipping several
issues), #206, and #207.

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca


------------------------------

From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 21:14:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Orcs Head Online

On 21 Dec 1996, Kevin Finn Augenstein wrote:
> Can anyone please tell me the difference between the downloadable files at
> the MPGN site.  Do I need to download them all or are they all the same.
 There are 4 files for the Orc's Head Peninsula, from what I recall.
TSR2522R.ZIP contains the text in RTF (Rich Text Format), 2522T has it in
text format (however, the formatting is ****ed up; I'm going through the
text version myself, cleaning it up. If anybody wants it, let me know, and
I'll send it privately once I'm finished). I believe T contains everything
R does, but it might be the other way around.
 The other 2 files contain the maps; the larger one (~5MB) has everything
in the smaller one (~2MB), and then some.
 Your final file list should contain: MAP01.JPG through MAP12.JPG,
TSR2522.JPG, ARK183, 185, 186, 188, 192, and 196.JPG, MAPTAGS.TXT,
ARKTAGS.TXT, TSR2522A.TXT and .RTF, and TSR2522B.TXT and .RTF.

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca


------------------------------

From: Leroy Van Camp III <van891@uidaho.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 19:21:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN] What is Appropriate On the List...

    The questions has come up on what is appropriate here on the MML, so
here are the "official" rules on what is appropriate.
    Have a problem with these?  Feel free to voice your opinion.  My
rulings have been altered in the past due to the opinions of members.

Other Game Systems

"If there is anyone here who doesn't use the AD&D or OD&D for the Mystara
setting please say so. Then we can discuss the rules for those systems
too!"

    The only game system that can be discussed in a manner that does not
directly relate to Mystara is the OD&D system.  IOW, any OD&D discussions
is allowed, but discussion of the mechanics of other systems is not
allowed unless it has some actual bearing on Mystara.
    For example, posting racial templates for the Mystaran races for use
with the GURPS system would be fine.  Debate on the mechanics behind the
GURPS racial creation rulesd would not be.

"How do you figure it has nothing to do with Mystara?  I run a Mystara
campaign which is exclusively AD&D 2ndEd, as do many others."

    Which is fine.  I, myself, run Mystara with AD&D.  And discussing how
these rules apply to Mystara is OK.  But discussion of the AD&D rules in
general is not.  
    Why?  Mainly, because there is already an AD&D list.  Personally, I
would rather see a small number of posts on the list, all of which pertain
to Mystara, as compared to a lot of posts, only of a fraction of which are
Mystara relevant.  I have recieved considerable e-mail that agrees with
this stance.  
    Again, if this is a problem with anybody, stand up and be heard.

"I've read over the FAQ on what can be posted and what can't and I'm not
exactly sure why this has been deemed inappropriate.  Every character on
Mystara has a strength score..."
 
    Hopefully what I have written above will help, but here is further
clarification...

    Most everyone on Mystara has a cardiovacular system.  Is it OK to
discuss cardiovascular health?
    Many Mystarans have sex.  Would it be fine to have a debate on sexual
topics?
    Many Mystaran people are of one religion or another.  Is a religious
discussion in order? 

    The answer to these questions is... Yes, if, and _only if_, you can
tie it into the Mystaran setting in your posts.  If you cannot, then it is
not appropriate.
    If you are discussing the Strength scores of Mystarans, then
everything is crombulant.  Otherwise, you are discussing a game system
other than OD&D, with no Mystaran connection, and this is not generally
allowed.    

"...and this discussion is about how we adapt Skills & Powers to Mystara.
Am I wrong?"

    Well, yes.  Looking back over the digest, the discussion was about the
S&P rules themselves, not about using them to adapt Mystara.


    Hopefully I have not come across as a fascist dictator here; it is
hard to come across friendly when "laying the law".  People should
understand that these are not always set in stone.  If the list is slow, I
am more likely to let infractions slide. 
    Also, I do occasionally make mistakes, and am always willing to listen
to arguements against my decisions.  If I cut a thread short, but a person
can show that it is still relevant, I may recant.
   This list is designed to help, and entertain, it's members.  So far,
this seems to work best when the topic is on target.  It is up to the
members to decide whether this is still true or not.
From ???@??? Mon Dec 23 12:53:40 1996
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                          Leroy Van Camp III
          owner-mystara-l@io.com         van891@uidaho.edu
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                 MST3K




------------------------------

From: "Jorge Villalobos" <factol@hotmail.com>
Date: 21 Dec 1996 06:05:59 -0000
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras?

Bellow is a big discussion about two Mystaras. 
How about this: There's only one Mystara you just have different rules you can
choose from and we're talking about a role playing game so everybody can choose
his/her own set of rules and modify timelines as he/she likes.

>>I'll correct you, cause in my opinion you're wrong.
>
>Won't be the first time.  :-)
>
>>The 2 Mystaras are 2
>>different things entirely: their stories are different, as well as their
>>characters (uh, well maybe something could be the same or very similar -just
>>names change- but only for sheer luck or fate's games). And that's because
>>they're not 2 alternate realities of the same world, but 2 worlds closely
>>linked together that exist in 2 different and separate dimensions (read my
>>reply to Daniel Boese and you'll understand)
>
>I understand completely.  It was my impression (and rereading the post that
>started this still is) that the OD&D and AD&D Mystara's that Daniel was
>talking about WERE identical in every detail except for as noted, basically
>spelljamming and the placement of the planes.  He even says "any native of
>Mystara wouldn't even know if he/she was transported from one world to
>another." (I'm paraphrasing)  If you want to talk about 2 entirely
>different worlds then go ahead.  That wasn't the bandwagon I jumped on.  :-)
>
>Anyway, so what are you saying?  Mystara1 and Mystara2 shouldn't be
>identical?  So the AD&D Mystara should have all it's NPC's renamed, major
>battles rethought, calendar's renamed, different star patterns, etc, etc,
>etc.  Let me guess which world you play in.  :-)
>
>If you're looking for a way to justify the existance of the AD&D Mystara
>world in your OD&D campaign, then I think you're missing the general point
>of the discussion.  They're seperate, but except for a few trivial details,
>completely identical.  Their timelines, major events, major personalities,
>flora, fauna, and so on, all as close to identical as possible.  That's not
>my opinion, it comes from the fact that the OD&D and AD&D poor wizards
>almanacs detail the EXACT same world.  (Barring a few differences in level
>and in the stat translation.)
>
>> No way! There are not Mystara1 Immortals in Mystara2 dimension: there are
>>the gods described in Planescape campaign book (if u want so9 or maybe other
>>gods... but it is possible for Mystara1 Immortals to visit Mystara2 and the
>>outer planes of this dimension to meet the other gods (they can do it by
>>using avatars, if they don't want to physically leave Multiverse dimension)
>
>Again, Daniel talks about the 2 Khoronus' meeting and having a discussion,
>and talks about Khoronus finding an "alternate timeline" of his own
>Mystara.  If they're two completely seperate worlds then this is a whole
>new discussion.
>
>>>But it's a great idea. don't let me not liking it stop you.  :-)
>>>
>>I agree: it's a good idea, but maybe each of us has his own, so why not to
>>share them?
>
>Because the whole point of this thread was to stir up some discussion.  I'm
>stirring, I'm stirring.  :-)
>
>I think it's an obvious point that each campaign world is it's own
>"alternate reality" seperate from all the others and whatever the
>"official" Mystara is.  I know some people like to harbor the delusion
>we're all playing in the exact same campaign world, and get all hot and
>bothered when someone does something in their own world that wouldn't mesh
>in theirs.  (And that's all I have to say about that, I promise.)
>
>Up until now, however, it was always assumed that somehow OD&D Mystara just
>"morphed" into AD&D Mystara one day.  Daniel came up with a pretty darn
>good idea that the two worlds actually exist together, instead of being a
>single one.  He then went on to say the two could somehow contact one
>another, and I expounded on the problems I saw with 2 nearly identical
>worlds dealing with one another.  (If they can't contact one another, then
>it's still a nice idea but there's not a lot of point to knowing it.)  Your
>idea about putting Mystara2 into the dimension of Myth is also pretty good,
>but I think it's entirely different.
>
>Making them seperate dimensions (or better yet seperate Universes in the
>Multiverse) just makes it easier to justify the completely different setup
>of planes and other facts of physics that differ in the two worlds (like
>spelljamming.)
>
>-Bob
>
>------------------------------------------------
>Bob Kaelin             Natural Intelligence
>Software Developer     725 Concord Ave.
>(617) 876-7680 x1253   Cambridge Ma. 02138
>Kaelin@natural.com     <http://www.natural.com>
>
>
>


- -----------------------------------------------------------------
|       ==(W{==========-                                        |
|         ||  (.--.)                                            |
|         | \_,|**|,__          Jorge Villalobos Duran          |
|         `\ ' `--'   ),        Universidad de los Andes        |
|           `\_. .__/\ \        factol@hotmail.com              |
|             | .  |""""|       jo-villa@uniandes.edu.co        |
|            /==0==-\<>/        jvillalobos@envirolink.org      |
|            | /  \  |          Tel (571) 2585382               |
|            ( )   ( )                                          |
|            | ;   | ;                                          |
|            | ;   | ;                                          |
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
             ___  _____
            .'/,-Y"     "~-.
            l.Y             ^.
            /\               _\_
           i            ___/"   "\       DOUGH!!!!
           |          /"   "\   o !
           l         ]     o !__./
            \ _  _    \.___./    "~\
             X \/ \            ___./
            ( \ ___.   _..--~~"   ~`-.
             ` Z,--   /               \
               \__.  (   /       ______)
                 \   l  /-----~~" /
                  Y   \          /
                  |    "x______.^
                  |           \
To the tune of ``Jingle Bells'':
       
       Azathoth
       Azathoth
       Azathoth, the King
       Center of the Universe,
       Insanity he brings, Hey!

- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: ashtar <ashtar@geocities.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 08:36:40 -0800
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Two Mystaras???

Jorge Villalobos wrote:
> 
>                        Postage paid by: [Image]
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Bellow is a big discussion about two Mystaras.
> How about this: There's only one Mystara you just have different rules you can
> choose from and we're talking about a role playing game so everybody can choose
> his/her own set of rules and modify timelines as he/she likes.
> 
> >>I'll correct you, cause in my opinion you're wrong.
> >
> >Won't be the first time.  :-)
> >
> >>The 2 Mystaras are 2
> >>different things entirely: their stories are different, as well as their
> >>characters (uh, well maybe something could be the same or very similar -just
> >>names change- but only for sheer luck or fate's games). And that's because
> >>they're not 2 alternate realities of the same world, but 2 worlds closely
> >>linked together that exist in 2 different and separate dimensions (read my
> >>reply to Daniel Boese and you'll understand)
> >
> >I understand completely.  It was my impression (and rereading the post that
> >started this still is) that the OD&D and AD&D Mystara's that Daniel was
> >talking about WERE identical in every detail except for as noted, basically
> >spelljamming and the placement of the planes.  He even says "any native of
> >Mystara wouldn't even know if he/she was transported from one world to
> >another." (I'm paraphrasing)  If you want to talk about 2 entirely
> >different worlds then go ahead.  That wasn't the bandwagon I jumped on.  :-)
> >
> >Anyway, so what are you saying?  Mystara1 and Mystara2 shouldn't be
> >identical?  So the AD&D Mystara should have all it's NPC's renamed, major
> >battles rethought, calendar's renamed, different star patterns, etc, etc,
> >etc.  Let me guess which world you play in.  :-)
> >
> >If you're looking for a way to justify the existance of the AD&D Mystara
> >world in your OD&D campaign, then I think you're missing the general point
> >of the discussion.  They're seperate, but except for a few trivial details,
> >completely identical.  Their timelines, major events, major personalities,
> >flora, fauna, and so on, all as close to identical as possible.  That's not
> >my opinion, it comes from the fact that the OD&D and AD&D poor wizards
> >almanacs detail the EXACT same world.  (Barring a few differences in level
> >and in the stat translation.)
> >
> >> No way! There are not Mystara1 Immortals in Mystara2 dimension: there are
> >>the gods described in Planescape campaign book (if u want so9 or maybe other
> >>gods... but it is possible for Mystara1 Immortals to visit Mystara2 and the
> >>outer planes of this dimension to meet the other gods (they can do it by
> >>using avatars, if they don't want to physically leave Multiverse dimension)
> >
> >Again, Daniel talks about the 2 Khoronus' meeting and having a discussion,
> >and talks about Khoronus finding an "alternate timeline" of his own
> >Mystara.  If they're two completely seperate worlds then this is a whole
> >new discussion.
> >
> >>>But it's a great idea. don't let me not liking it stop you.  :-)
> >>>
> >>I agree: it's a good idea, but maybe each of us has his own, so why not to
> >>share them?
> >
> >Because the whole point of this thread was to stir up some discussion.  I'm
> >stirring, I'm stirring.  :-)
> >
> >I think it's an obvious point that each campaign world is it's own
> >"alternate reality" seperate from all the others and whatever the
> >"official" Mystara is.  I know some people like to harbor the delusion
> >we're all playing in the exact same campaign world, and get all hot and
> >bothered when someone does something in their own world that wouldn't mesh
> >in theirs.  (And that's all I have to say about that, I promise.)
> >
> >Up until now, however, it was always assumed that somehow OD&D Mystara just
> >"morphed" into AD&D Mystara one day.  Daniel came up with a pretty darn
> >good idea that the two worlds actually exist together, instead of being a
> >single one.  He then went on to say the two could somehow contact one
> >another, and I expounded on the problems I saw with 2 nearly identical
> >worlds dealing with one another.  (If they can't contact one another, then
> >it's still a nice idea but there's not a lot of point to knowing it.)  Your
> >idea about putting Mystara2 into the dimension of Myth is also pretty good,
> >but I think it's entirely different.
> >
> >Making them seperate dimensions (or better yet seperate Universes in the
> >Multiverse) just makes it easier to justify the completely different setup
> >of planes and other facts of physics that differ in the two worlds (like
> >spelljamming.)
> >
> >-Bob
> >
> >------------------------------------------------
> >Bob Kaelin             Natural Intelligence
> >Software Developer     725 Concord Ave.
> >(617) 876-7680 x1253   Cambridge Ma. 02138
> >Kaelin@natural.com     <http://www.natural.com>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> |       ==(W{==========-                                        |
> |         ||  (.--.)                                            |
> |         | \_,|**|,__          Jorge Villalobos Duran          |
> |         `\ ' `--'   ),        Universidad de los Andes        |
> |           `\_. .__/\ \        factol@hotmail.com              |
> |             | .  |""""|       jo-villa@uniandes.edu.co        |
> |            /==0==-\<>/        jvillalobos@envirolink.org      |
> |            | /  \  |          Tel (571) 2585382               |
> |            ( )   ( )                                          |
> |            | ;   | ;                                          |
> |            | ;   | ;                                          |
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>              ___  _____
>             .'/,-Y"     "~-.
>             l.Y             ^.
>             /\               _\_
>            i            ___/"   "\       DOUGH!!!!
>            |          /"   "\   o !
>            l         ]     o !__./
>             \ _  _    \.___./    "~\
>              X \/ \            ___./
>             ( \ ___.   _..--~~"   ~`-.
>              ` Z,--   /               \
>                \__.  (   /       ______)
>                  \   l  /-----~~" /
>                   Y   \          /
>                   |    "x______.^
>                   |           \
> To the tune of ``Jingle Bells'':
> 
>        Azathoth
>        Azathoth
>        Azathoth, the King
>        Center of the Universe,
>        Insanity he brings, Hey!
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------

I just got on this MML yesterday so forgive me for not being caught up
on your discussions.

2 Mystaras...the idea is wierd yet exciting. I used another Mystara
dimension once where everything was the same yet twisted. (Evil people
were all good, good characters were all evil.) Neutrals stayed the same.

But if you are referring to 2 Mystara simply because of the rule
changes. Thats not different enough to become a different world.
I am in AC 1007 and i am using AD&D. (Well sorta a mixer....but its
mostly AD&D.) 

If another group in Mystara does something that you dont like...you can
, ignore it or play along.

No real need for another world. Even with 2 worlds people are going to
do major things you might not like. Thats impossible to get away from.

Sorry if i dont understand what your trying to say, i havent been here
so forgive me.

Ashtar

------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #307
*****************************



mystara-digest           Thursday, 26 December 1996     Volume 01 : Number 308


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Geoff Gander <ggander@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 96 11:16:41 EST
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Orcs Head Online

Daniel Boese writes:
> 
> On 21 Dec 1996, Kevin Finn Augenstein wrote:
> > Can anyone please tell me the difference between the downloadable files at
> > the MPGN site.  Do I need to download them all or are they all the same.
>  There are 4 files for the Orc's Head Peninsula, from what I recall.
> TSR2522R.ZIP contains the text in RTF (Rich Text Format), 2522T has it in
> text format (however, the formatting is ****ed up; I'm going through the
> text version myself, cleaning it up. If anybody wants it, let me know, and
> I'll send it privately once I'm finished). I believe T contains everything
> R does, but it might be the other way around.
>  The other 2 files contain the maps; the larger one (~5MB) has everything
> in the smaller one (~2MB), and then some.
>  Your final file list should contain: MAP01.JPG through MAP12.JPG,
> TSR2522.JPG, ARK183, 185, 186, 188, 192, and 196.JPG, MAPTAGS.TXT,
> ARKTAGS.TXT, TSR2522A.TXT and .RTF, and TSR2522B.TXT and .RTF.
> 
> --
> Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca

        What is the address ofthis site?


> 




- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geoff Gander                               
Political Science IV
Carleton University
General wanderer by principle, adventurer by profession
Email address: ggander@chat.carleton.ca
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@PostOffice.WorldNet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:15:01 +0000
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Orcs Head Online CORRECTION

>TSR2522a.zip contains a number of black and white maps to accompany the
>adventures in 
>        the campaign book
>TSR2522h.zip contains more of these black and white maps, as well as the
>color hexmaps from the Princess Ark series in Dragon Magazine (great maps)

sorry, i made a mistake.  The b/w images are the same in both of these, so
TSR2522h contains everything that TSR2522a does.  They both also contain the
cover art.


------------------------------

From: Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@PostOffice.WorldNet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:20:54 +0000
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Orcs Head Online Address

>       What is the address ofthis site?
ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/SavageCoast/

------------------------------

From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 14:18:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Orcs Head Online

On Sat, 21 Dec 1996, Geoff Gander wrote:
> > > Can anyone please tell me the difference between the downloadable files at
> > > the MPGN site.  Do I need to download them all or are they all the same.
>       What is the address ofthis site?

The site itself is ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/
However, the Orc's Head product (along with several other products) is in
ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/SavageCoast
, while a few items about the rest of Mystara are in
ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca


------------------------------

From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 12:30:55 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mystara] Skothar/Blackmoor (Was Re: (MOrient team please read))

On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, David Melik wrote:

> Many of us on the list are collaborating to create an Oriental and Asian
> setting for Mystara on Skothar.  There was a timeline posted a while ago
> that mentioned the Blackmoor civilization there.  Since this is a serious
> project, and a big one, the MOrient team should learn what all the sources
> of Skothar information are, and who has them, so we can tell each other what
> we need to know know.  Is there anyone on the list that knows all the
> sources of Skothar information by any chance?  I'm curious about what it
> says about Skothar in the Blackmoor modules.

It doesn't say anything much about Skothar at all, perhaps mainly due to 
the fact that at the time these modules were released, Skothar had not 
yet been named. The only mention of the Thonia that is currently located 
in Skothar is that, following the destruction of the Kingdom of 
Blackmoor, and the environmental changes wrought by it, the remnants of 
the Thonian Empire migrated to the area know known as Thonia (ie, in 
Skothar), though they are but a shadow of the great Empire they once 
were. 

Which seems to imply to me that Blackmoor (and Old Thonia) were once 
located on the continent of Brun... but that's a whole other debate.

------------------------------

From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 20:15:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Mapping program?

 Does anybody happen to know a program that would let me enter the various
maps printed for Mystara, and combine them fairly well? I've been able to
find simple hex-mappers, but haven't found any that were able to combine
maps of different scales (ie, 72, 24, 8, or 1 mile per hex).
 If not a program like that, does anybody have a graphics editor that
could combine the ARK*.JPG maps from the TSR2522 files?

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca


------------------------------

From: Joe Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 01:44:14 -0500
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) Re: [Mystara] Hello...

              
>       I've got -almost- all of the origional D&D moduals in Mystara, and
>>consequently, have all of the Blackmoor ones, except the last one. If
>>there's any info that's needed regarding these, I'd be happy to provide.
>>      Anyway, I hope to be chatting way with you all soon about my favorite
>>D&D setting...

>Many of us on the list are collaborating to create an Oriental and Asian
>setting for Mystara on Skothar.  There was a timeline posted a while ago
>that mentioned the Blackmoor civilization there.  Since this is a serious
>project, and a big one, the MOrient team should learn what all the sources
>of Skothar information are, and who has them, so we can tell each other what
>we need to know know.  Is there anyone on the list that knows all the
>sources of Skothar information by any chance?  I'm curious about what it
>says about Skothar in the Blackmoor modules.

        Hrm, wasn't the kingdom of Blackmoor on the Known World, not
Skothar? From what I know Skothar is where the survivors of Thonia 
relocated to...
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 23:52:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) Re: [Mystara] Hello...

At 12:08 AM 12/21/96 +1100, you wrote:
>David Melik wrote:
>> That basically sounds like a good idea, it got me thinking, and I wrote
>> about a page of important thoughts related to this, organized into a
>> hopefully interesting essay.  Would anyone like me to send it to them, or
>> would it be appropriate to post it to the list?  That reminds me, I
>> apologize for the mythology posting if it was too off-subject.  I=
 intended
>> to send it individually, but made an error after being sleep-deprived=
 from
>> staying up late tracking a techno module.
>
>       I'd be interested in seeing it, so you could post it to me (or just
>post it to the list - that is if anyone else's interested).
>       On a similar topic, does anyone know what the address is to write to,
>if one wished to tell TSR that they miss the Mystara line and want it
>back? Is this worthwhile?
>=20
Well, I guess I'll send it individually, since no one else has expressed an
interest yet, and it's radical.

I guess you should write tsrinc@aol.com, but I seriously doubt that it would
make any difference, because at the core, money is all that matters to
multinational corporations.


 /=AF=AF|=AF=AF\    /=AF\/=AF\    /=AF=AF=AF=AF\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/    =20
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net


------------------------------

From: Berg <berg@eskimo.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 00:33:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) Re: [Mystara] Hello...

        Actually, I remember once comparing maps on that...lemme see if I
can dig out the location of Blackmoor...

        Got it...Blackmoor *was* on Skothar, but while back then it was mostly
flat, it's mountains now.  If you look at Skothar, find the Steppes of Jen.
Then move north, and right around 70 degrees north, 100 degrees east is where
Blackmoor was, as near as I can figure.

        (I'm using the maps from the Hollow World boxed set, btw).


------------------------------

From: ashtar <ashtar@geocities.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 09:09:41 -0800
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

David Melik wrote:
> 
>                        Postage paid by: [Image]
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> At 12:08 AM 12/21/96 +1100, you wrote:
> >David Melik wrote:
> >> That basically sounds like a good idea, it got me thinking, and I wrote
> >> about a page of important thoughts related to this, organized into a
> >> hopefully interesting essay.  Would anyone like me to send it to them, or
> >> would it be appropriate to post it to the list?  That reminds me, I
> >> apologize for the mythology posting if it was too off-subject.  I intended
> >> to send it individually, but made an error after being sleep-deprived from
> >> staying up late tracking a techno module.
> >
> >       I'd be interested in seeing it, so you could post it to me (or just
> >post it to the list - that is if anyone else's interested).
> >       On a similar topic, does anyone know what the address is to write to,
> >if one wished to tell TSR that they miss the Mystara line and want it
> >back? Is this worthwhile?
> >
> Well, I guess I'll send it individually, since no one else has expressed an
> interest yet, and it's radical.
> 
> I guess you should write tsrinc@aol.com, but I seriously doubt that it would
> make any difference, because at the core, money is all that matters to
> multinational corporations.
> 
>  /¯¯|¯¯\    /¯\/¯\    /¯¯¯¯\
> /   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
> |   |   |  |      |  |      |
> \  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
>  \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/
>               \/
> Peace, Love, & Happiness,
> 
> David Melik
> Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net

Nice idea what you all are doing. After all according to the Champions
of Mystara set only 25% of Mystara is discovred. Plenty of space to put
in stuff. 

As for TSR missing Mystara? I dont know I actually like the players
having ontrol over it now, I dont think I even care if they bring back
or not. We are keeping it alive and thats all that matters. We have all
the books (most) anyway. If they bring back great. If not, great. 

One thing I loved about Mystara is: There were no real famous heroes.
Dragon Lance has Raistlon, the realms have Drizzt. Mystara had a few
guys but they were never that famous. Our characters were the famous
ones. I like it better like that.

Ashtar

------------------------------

From: Geoff Gander <ggander@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 96 11:15:19 EST
Subject: [Mystara] Blackmoor Location

        Fellow Mystarans,

        Once again we are debating the fascinating topic of where
Blackmoor once lay, and once again I present my case for Blackmoor having
existed on Skothar.
        Personally, I go with the Hollow World maps, not only because they
provide a clearer picture, but because they build upon, and correct,
previous information.  If you look at the map, you will see on it that
Blackmoor is south of Thonia (although according to module DA1 Blackmoor
was a rebellious northern province of Thonia, so the solution here is to
reverse the names).  After the Rain of Fire, Blackmoor found itself on the
north pole, where it remains to this day.  Looking at the map of the outer
world of Mystara, circa 1000 AC, we can see that Skothar has the largest
amount of northern lands, especially within the sunless areas.  Brun, on
the other hand, was shifted largely to the southwest, making it the new
cradle of civilization, leaving only the northwesternmost Hyborean
Mountains in the sunless region - hardly a place large enough for
Blackmoor (at least in my opinion).  If, as all our sourcebooks say,
Blackmoor is at the north pole, and thus uninhabitable, then it must be on
those lands closest to it - which is why I choose Skothar.
        Furthermore, we need only read the history of the Azcans to learn
more.  It is stated that the old Oltec and Azcan peoples had no contact
with the Blackmoorians, which is likely if Blackmoor was located on
Skothar, since the Oltecs and Azcans were located in the modern Atruaghin
Clans region (see GAZ 14).  If, looking at the map in GAZ 10 of humanoid
migrations, we place ancient Blackmoor in central Brun - due west of
Norwold and northwest of Hule, then contact between the two peoples would
have been far more likely, due to their proximity.
        This is just how I see things, you can take my perception any way
you want.  As for Thonia, DA1 says that the modern Thonians are but a
shadow of their former selves, having migrated to a new continent.  I
altered it slightly, which took very little effort, to make it mesh with
m,y theory.  IMC, Thonia was south of old Blackmoor, on Skothar.  Refugees
from that empire migrated west, to modern Norwold, where they eventually
became the Antalians (the dates work out here), who in turn brought about
the Heldann, Vestlanders, and others.  Reading DA1's interpretation once
again, it states that these people were but shadows of the former empire. 
Well, if you compare the Northern Reaches and Heldann F.H. society to what
Thonia was at its height, then this description rings true.
        This is just my two cents' worth on the matter, just my attempt to
explain the unexplainable ;-).


                                Geoff
        


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geoff Gander                               
Political Science IV
Carleton University
General wanderer by principle, adventurer by profession
Email address: ggander@chat.carleton.ca
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Kjell Stephansen <kstephan@online.no>
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 00:24:44 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] Yehey!

Jeg =F8nsker hele gjengen en J=E6vla God Jul og et Helvetes Gr=E5tt Nytt =
H=E5r. Riktig....

Dere f=E5r ha en morsom 4. Juledag ogs=E5..
  (hva skjer da forresten?)

                               Tarjeh

------------------------------

From: Joe Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 23:43:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Yehey!

At 12:24 AM 12/23/96 +-100, you wrote:
>Jeg =F8nsker hele gjengen en J=E6vla God Jul og et Helvetes Gr=E5tt Nytt=
 H=E5r.
Riktig....
>
>Dere f=E5r ha en morsom 4. Juledag ogs=E5..
>  (hva skjer da forresten?)
>
       =20
                God Jul!!!

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: Joe Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 23:42:07 -0500
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) Re: [Mystara] Hello...

At 12:33 AM 12/22/96 -0800, you wrote:
>
>       Actually, I remember once comparing maps on that...lemme see if I
>can dig out the location of Blackmoor...
>
>       Got it...Blackmoor *was* on Skothar, but while back then it was mostly
>flat, it's mountains now.  If you look at Skothar, find the Steppes of Jen.
>Then move north, and right around 70 degrees north, 100 degrees east is where
>Blackmoor was, as near as I can figure.
>
>       (I'm using the maps from the Hollow World boxed set, btw).

        Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. Check DA1 and DA3, the Inn
Between 
Worlds is in Blackmoor in the past and in the Broken Lands in the future...

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: Joe Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 23:43:21 -0500
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

>
>Nice idea what you all are doing. After all according to the Champions
>of Mystara set only 25% of Mystara is discovred. Plenty of space to put
>in stuff. 
>
>As for TSR missing Mystara? I dont know I actually like the players
>having ontrol over it now, I dont think I even care if they bring back
>or not. We are keeping it alive and thats all that matters. We have all
>the books (most) anyway. If they bring back great. If not, great. 
>
>One thing I loved about Mystara is: There were no real famous heroes.
>Dragon Lance has Raistlon, the realms have Drizzt. Mystara had a few
>guys but they were never that famous. Our characters were the famous
>ones. I like it better like that.

        No, but we have Bargle!!!!!!! And the Black Baron!!!!!
And there's that mage guy that started the Karemeikan school of Magic..
And Haldemar too....
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: Berg <berg@eskimo.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 21:39:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) Re: [Mystara] Hello...

        The Comeback Inn is mentioned to have spent some time on the
bottom of an ocean, crushed with molten rock, and so forth.  

        Look, Blackmoor and Thonia are listed on the Hollow World maps
(the ancient history ones).  And they are essentially a part of Skothar
then.  The Hollow World maps are very complete, giving full views of
the present-day Mystara, Blackmoor-era Mystara, and the inside of the
planet.  They're the most complete Mystara world-maps I've ever found.

        Now, given a choice between the best maps of Mystara I've seen
to date, and the fact that an indestructible in was sunk to the bottom
of the sea, then submerged in lava, and spit up in the Broken Lands,
I gotta go with the complete maps.


------------------------------

From: ashtar <ashtar@geocities.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 01:13:56 -0800
Subject: [Mystara] Drow on Mystara? (I dont mean S. Elves)

Ok, we all know that Shadow Elves are NOT drow. In fact i didnt think
there was any drow on Mystara until i picked up the Northern Reaches
gazteer which states there sure are a few dark elves about. Is this the
ONLY Mystaran refernce on drow on Mystara? It states the came from
another plane. I've never seen any other Mystara book even mention them.
It must be a very small population.

Ashtar

------------------------------

From: ashtar <ashtar@geocities.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 01:05:31 -0800
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

Joe Duncan wrote:
> 
>                        Postage paid by: [Image]
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> >
> >Nice idea what you all are doing. After all according to the Champions
> >of Mystara set only 25% of Mystara is discovred. Plenty of space to put
> >in stuff.
> >
> >As for TSR missing Mystara? I dont know I actually like the players
> >having ontrol over it now, I dont think I even care if they bring back
> >or not. We are keeping it alive and thats all that matters. We have all
> >the books (most) anyway. If they bring back great. If not, great.
> >
> >One thing I loved about Mystara is: There were no real famous heroes.
> >Dragon Lance has Raistlon, the realms have Drizzt. Mystara had a few
> >guys but they were never that famous. Our characters were the famous
> >ones. I like it better like that.
> 
>         No, but we have Bargle!!!!!!! And the Black Baron!!!!!
> And there's that mage guy that started the Karemeikan school of Magic..
> And Haldemar too....
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>         "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
>         Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
>         jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
>         cq793@freenet.carleton.ca
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Right, but only Mystarans know them. I dont play the realms and i know
who Drizzt is. Never read his books either. on Mystara the main
characters or our characters. What could be better then that? Also I saw
the old blackmoor book for 50 bucks. I might pick it up. I'm sure its
got tons of into there.

What is the Inn Between Worlds?! I saw it mentioned in the Karamekios
Boxed Set. But can someone tell me info on it?


Ashtar

------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #308
*****************************




mystara-digest           Tuesday, 31 December 1996     Volume 01 : Number 309


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Max Wilcox <s333271@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 06:20:42 +1100
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

Joe Duncan wrote:
> >One thing I loved about Mystara is: There were no real famous heroes.
> >Dragon Lance has Raistlon, the realms have Drizzt. Mystara had a few
> >guys but they were never that famous. Our characters were the famous
> >ones. I like it better like that.
> 
>         No, but we have Bargle!!!!!!! And the Black Baron!!!!!
> And there's that mage guy that started the Karemeikan school of Magic..
> And Haldemar too....

        THE MASTER!!!!!!
- -Max Wilcox

------------------------------

From: Max Wilcox <s333271@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 06:24:54 +1100
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

ashtar wrote:
> Right, but only Mystarans know them. I dont play the realms and i know
> who Drizzt is. Never read his books either. on Mystara the main
> characters or our characters. What could be better then that? Also I saw
> the old blackmoor book for 50 bucks. I might pick it up. I'm sure its
> got tons of into there.

        Which Blackmoor? The origional one, or one of the modules? The modules
would have interesting info, but the origionals were for Greyhawk, if I
remember correctly.
 
> What is the Inn Between Worlds?! I saw it mentioned in the Karamekios
> Boxed Set. But can someone tell me info on it?

        Basicly, (from memory again), it's the inn, in which, the characters
can be transported to Blackmoor. It's some kind of multi dimensional
thingie. The best source is the first Blackmoor module.

- -Max Wilcox

------------------------------

From: Joe Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:32:55 -0500
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

At 06:20 AM 12/26/96 +1100, you wrote:
>Joe Duncan wrote:
>> >One thing I loved about Mystara is: There were no real famous heroes.
>> >Dragon Lance has Raistlon, the realms have Drizzt. Mystara had a few
>> >guys but they were never that famous. Our characters were the famous
>> >ones. I like it better like that.
>> 
>>         No, but we have Bargle!!!!!!! And the Black Baron!!!!!
>> And there's that mage guy that started the Karemeikan school of Magic..
>> And Haldemar too....
>
>       THE MASTER!!!!!!

        Ack!!!!!! ( kicking myself hard... ) How could I miss him? 
Of course!!!!! The biggest mystaran villain ever!!!!!! He rocks...
( or is that stones? "He said Jehovah!" )
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: Joe Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:32:51 -0500
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

At 01:05 AM 12/26/96 -0800, you wrote:

>>         No, but we have Bargle!!!!!!! And the Black Baron!!!!!
>> And there's that mage guy that started the Karemeikan school of Magic..
>> And Haldemar too....

>Right, but only Mystarans know them. I dont play the realms and i know
>who Drizzt is. 

        Who? The only character I know from the Realms is Elminster, 
and I'll bet that a lot of AD&D players know who Bargle is, he's been
everywhere, even as the main enemy in the original red book set....

Never read his books either. on Mystara the main
>characters or our characters. What could be better then that? Also I saw
>the old blackmoor book for 50 bucks. I might pick it up. I'm sure its
>got tons of into there.
>
>What is the Inn Between Worlds?! I saw it mentioned in the Karamekios
>Boxed Set. But can someone tell me info on it?

        It's an indestructible magical inn that was built in Blackmoor, 
also known as the Comeback Inn, it contains a time-gate in the basement
that takes characters from ac 1000 to the crucial events that allowed
blackmoor to develop high-tech...

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: Mischa E Gelman <megst19+@pitt.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 16:26:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

> What is the Inn Between Worlds?! I saw it mentioned in the Karamekios
> Boxed Set. But can someone tell me info on it?

It was discussed thoroughly in DA1..it is a portal between modern-day
times(AC 1000) and Blackmoor and also any other period, if you ever figure
out how to work it.  It was a popular inn at the time of Blackmoor, with
ever-repleneshing food supplies and other neat magic enhancements.


Ted Striker has more guts in his little finger than most of us have in our
intestines..including the colon -McCroskey (Lloyd Bridges)


------------------------------

From: Victor Caminha <wykthor@esquadro.com.br>
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 22:23:11 -0200
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

        THE MASTER!!!!!!
>
>        Ack!!!!!! ( kicking myself hard... ) How could I miss him?=20
>Of course!!!!! The biggest mystaran villain ever!!!!!! He rocks...
>( or is that stones? "He said Jehovah!" )
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Yup.Not only Hosadus (if it is really him or just another equally wicked=
 one).
A number of Villains and other Big ones came into my mind; they may be not
famous but i do not forget them for the touch they put in my campaign:
- - Barimoor: he surely may not be as famous as Mordekainem or Elminster but
surely would be a bad for any who cross with him. His history in Gaz2 is
very appealing
- -Eti=E9nne D'Ambreville/Rad: though in my campaign ended tragically for him=
 (yes,=20
i surely was a little pro-alphatian to not use the Alternative event of the
Old One) he may be accounted as one of Mystaran Celebrities
- - Landrin Teriac:-The ShadowLord (X10 or X9 i think). This was one of my
first impressive characters that my character met. It is unknown, i know but
i also wanted to show that not only widely-known characters make a Campaign
- - Alphaks: yes, he may be an immortal, but while Bargle is the one which
monopolized attention in basic/expert lvls, Alphaks  was the top dog in=
 Master
 modules=20
- - Moorcroft ElvenBane (Cm2-the tree of Life) Surely, its hard to imagine a
worst enemy of elvenkind. I wonder if Atzanteotl has taken a shine on him..

There are many more, but its hard to imagine what would be of Mystara
without these illustrious "unknown" npcs :)))))))

"Receive the bounty of your hero's deed
 Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead
 Eternally running from a priestly bead
 Unable to bear the Orb in your head

 You'll walk in the darkness so alluring
 Without Hope to cleanse your sin
 Away from the joy of the living
 Forever to serve your Twin"


------------------------------

From: ashtar <ashtar@geocities.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 02:51:21 -0800
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

Mischa E Gelman wrote:
> 
>                        Postage paid by: [Image]
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> > What is the Inn Between Worlds?! I saw it mentioned in the Karamekios
> > Boxed Set. But can someone tell me info on it?
> 
> It was discussed thoroughly in DA1..it is a portal between modern-day
> times(AC 1000) and Blackmoor and also any other period, if you ever figure
> out how to work it.  It was a popular inn at the time of Blackmoor, with
> ever-repleneshing food supplies and other neat magic enhancements.
> 
> Ted Striker has more guts in his little finger than most of us have in our
> intestines..including the colon -McCroskey (Lloyd Bridges)

So if someone went to this Inn Between worlds....we could go back in
time and play blackmoor sets with our AC characters?

------------------------------

From: Joe Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 03:23:39 -0500
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

>Yup.Not only Hosadus (if it is really him or just another equally wicked=
 one).
>A number of Villains and other Big ones came into my mind; they may be not
>famous but i do not forget them for the touch they put in my campaign:
>- Barimoor: he surely may not be as famous as Mordekainem or Elminster but
>surely would be a bad for any who cross with him. His history in Gaz2 is
>very appealing

        Hrm, don't remember much about him...

>-Eti=E9nne D'Ambreville/Rad: though in my campaign ended tragically for him
(yes,=20
>i surely was a little pro-alphatian to not use the Alternative event of the
>Old One) he may be accounted as one of Mystaran Celebrities

        Well, I was thinking more along the lines of mortal heroes/villains
but Rad is definitely one of the most famous Mystarans...

>- Landrin Teriac:-The ShadowLord (X10 or X9 i think). This was one of my
>first impressive characters that my character met. It is unknown, i know=
 but
>i also wanted to show that not only widely-known characters make a Campaign

        I always loved this character but he's not really a recurring=
 character
although I plan to make him one in my campaign....

>- Alphaks: yes, he may be an immortal, but while Bargle is the one which
>monopolized attention in basic/expert lvls, Alphaks  was the top dog in=
 Master
> modules=20

        Definitely one of the bad guys...

>- Moorcroft ElvenBane (Cm2-the tree of Life) Surely, its hard to imagine a
>worst enemy of elvenkind. I wonder if Atzanteotl has taken a shine on him..

        Damn, gotta kick myself again.. this guys one of the worst...
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: Victor Caminha <wykthor@esquadro.com.br>
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 13:23:47 -0200
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

At 03:23 27/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>>- Barimoor: he surely may not be as famous as Mordekainem or Elminster but
>>surely would be a bad for any who cross with him. His history in Gaz2 is
>>very appealing
>
>        Hrm, don't remember much about him...

He is a candidate to Immortality for Energy..He is fulled detailed in
Emirates of Ylaruam...And likely to become Immortal

I have forgotten: Besides Lorde Toede, caN you imagine a Humanoid more
famous than Thar?

sometimes i think if D&D published pocket books as it was in Dragonlance,
Forgotten, it could surely be as fmaous as them...If not, there would  not
be so many illustrious strangers ;) 

PS: as we are talking about Mystaran NPCs why we do not keep a discussion
about them and the impact they caused in our campaigns?

"Receive the bounty of your hero's deed
 Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead
 Eternally running from a priestly bead
 Unable to bear the Orb in your head

 You'll walk in the darkness so alluring
 Without Hope to cleanse your sin
 Away from the joy of the living
 Forever to serve your Twin"


------------------------------

From: Joe Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 15:29:00 -0500
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

At 01:23 PM 12/27/96 -0200, you wrote:
>At 03:23 27/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>>>- Barimoor: he surely may not be as famous as Mordekainem or Elminster but
>>>surely would be a bad for any who cross with him. His history in Gaz2 is
>>>very appealing
>>
>>        Hrm, don't remember much about him...
>
>He is a candidate to Immortality for Energy..He is fulled detailed in
>Emirates of Ylaruam...And likely to become Immortal
>
>I have forgotten: Besides Lorde Toede, caN you imagine a Humanoid more
>famous than Thar?

        I must be really dense. How could I forget Thar?!? Oh, well.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: Joe Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 15:28:56 -0500
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

>> It was discussed thoroughly in DA1..it is a portal between modern-day
>> times(AC 1000) and Blackmoor and also any other period, if you ever figure
>> out how to work it.  It was a popular inn at the time of Blackmoor, with
>> ever-repleneshing food supplies and other neat magic enhancements.
>> 
>> Ted Striker has more guts in his little finger than most of us have in our
>> intestines..including the colon -McCroskey (Lloyd Bridges)
>
>So if someone went to this Inn Between worlds....we could go back in
>time and play blackmoor sets with our AC characters?

        That's the basic concept for the DAx modules... Although it's a 
different Blackmoor than the Greyhawk one...
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: "George E. Hrabovsky" <george@msn.fullfeed.com>
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 04:43:07 -0600
Subject: RE: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBF47C.CA1338C0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Blackmoor was NEVER part of Greyhawk!!!!  It was the creation of Dave
Arneson, who ran it before D&D was even invented (using Chainmail).

The Blackmoor of the modules is exactly the same Blackmoor that Dave
Arneson used to run.  Check out the First Fantasy Campaign from
Judges Guild.

        George


- ----------
From:   Joe Duncan[SMTP:jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca]
Sent:   Friday, December 27, 1996 2:28 PM
To:     mystara-l@io.com
Subject:        Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?


>> It was discussed thoroughly in DA1..it is a portal between modern-day
>> times(AC 1000) and Blackmoor and also any other period, if you ever figure
>> out how to work it.  It was a popular inn at the time of Blackmoor, with
>> ever-repleneshing food supplies and other neat magic enhancements.
>> 
>> Ted Striker has more guts in his little finger than most of us have in our
>> intestines..including the colon -McCroskey (Lloyd Bridges)
>
>So if someone went to this Inn Between worlds....we could go back in
>time and play blackmoor sets with our AC characters?

        That's the basic concept for the DAx modules... Although it's a 
different Blackmoor than the Greyhawk one...
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------




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uwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAMEB

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBF47C.CA1338C0--


------------------------------

From: jduke@zebra.net (Joseph Duke)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 09:02:42 -0600
Subject: [Mystara] one BIG map...

Hey all,
        The one most confusing thing I find about Mystara, I can find no single
map that contains all the lands (save the Hollow world) of Mystara.  I
mean a map that has Brun, Hule, the Savagae lands (excuse if I am
repetitive or redundant :) etc...etc...etc...
        "This country is located on the western portion of Brun next to
Darokin" can only take me so far....I do not own WotI, nor the Savage
Coast boxed set, though I do have Savage Baronies.  I also have all the
Gazeteers (except #5, Alfheim),both Eastern and Western Countries trail
maps, and all 3 Almanacs and Joshuan's too.  I cannot piece all the
litle maps together in any kind of order do to scale differences.

        Is there a single map of all lands on the surface of Mystara?
(man a lot o' rambling for that one question)
        
        Also, I am about to run X2, Caslte D'Amberville, and then time warp 30
years forward and run Mark of Amber.  Is there anything I should know
pertinent to the two modules?

thanks a bunch
Joe

------------------------------

From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 15:29:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Alphatia/Atlantis parallels?

 So, does anybody know anything about Atlantis that could be adapted to
use with Alphatia?

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca


------------------------------

From: Kostarsus@sagor.prima.ruhr.de (Bernhard Schumacher)
Date: 30 Dec 1996 13:52:00 +0200
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Auto-Switch für Monitor/Tastatur/Maus

[ Message 199612271925.UAA22763@comserv.mubo.de ]
[ dated 27.12.96 *forwarded* ]
[ originally mubocom@mubo.de ]
[ from mubocom@mubo.de (Volker Musebrink)  ]

## Nachricht am 30.12.96 archiviert
## Ursprung: /in@sagor.prima.ruhr.de

Bernhard Schumacher writes:
> 
> Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,
> 
> bitte senden Sie mir n=E4here Informationen =FCber folgendes Produkt:
> " Auto-Switch, f=FCr Monitor / Tastatur und serielle PC-Maus, 1
> Arbeitsplatz an 6 Rechner, ArktikelNr: 1800-106".
> Insbesondere bitte ich Sie mir Informationen =FCber die Realisierung der
> Umschaltung (via Hardware oder Treiber) und die Konpatbilit=E4t mit den
> Betriebssystem Windows NT 4.0 .

Sehr geehrter Herr Schuhmacher,

die Umschaltung geschieht ueber einen Taster der immer zum naechsten Rechner
schaltet oder ueber Tastenkombinationen auf der PC-Tastatur. Damit lassen
sich alle angeschlossenen Rechner sofort auswaehlen. Ein Treiber auf
PC-Seite ist nicht notwendig, die Umschaltung ist vollkommen unabhaengig
vom gewaehlten Betriebssystem. Insbesondere lassen sich so auch Rechner
mit verschiedenen Betriebssytemen kombinieren.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen

  Volker Musebrink


- -- 
        M u b o C o m  -  Computerzubehoer und Telekommunikation
        Neunkircherstrasse 118A               66113 Saarbruecken
        EMail: mubocom@mubo.de                Tel: 0681/94819-10
        URL:   http://www.mubo.de             Fax: 0681/94819-99
## CrossPoint v3.11 ##

------------------------------

From: Simon Seah <seah@sfu.ca>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:32:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] one BIG map...

>       The one most confusing thing I find about Mystara, I can find no single
> map that contains all the lands (save the Hollow world) of Mystara.  I
> mean a map that has Brun, Hule, the Savagae lands (excuse if I am
> repetitive or redundant :) etc...etc...etc...

Okay, I don't know what has been said before, but this is what I know:

(1) Champions of Mystara has maps for Hule, Yavdlom, and Sind. They're on
the same scale, I believe, but too big to fit on anything smaller than a
Trail Map, which they quit doing, I guess, after the Eastern and Western
lands (or, if you like, Eastern Weenie Countries and Alphatia :)

(2) Orc's Head has a hex map of something. Haven't looked at it too
closely, but it's probably at the 72" scale. :( I believe it goes up to
the Arm of the Immortals, though.

> maps, and all 3 Almanacs and Joshuan's too.  I cannot piece all the
> litle maps together in any kind of order do to scale differences.

I'm not sure what you mean by "do scale differences."

As far as I know, the Trail Maps are 8", as are the GAZ maps. Some of the
boxed set maps might be 72" or less, such as Dawn of the Empires Alphatia
maps.
The Trail Maps overlap just a little so that you have the whole GAZ 1-11
set, but are still kind of lost around which part of RockHome is
redundant. :)

>       Is there a single map of all lands on the surface of Mystara?
> (man a lot o' rambling for that one question)

Since much of Mystara has not been detailed, it's unlikely that they've
done more than what's available now.
HOWEVER: since they have at least worked a bit on the Savage Coast, it may
be worthwhile to ask TSR if they indeed had the world mapped out, and if
they could make such available on, say, a format readable by the Core
Rules CD-ROM mapping utility. Not that I have it, but I'm sure someone
on the mailing list does.

Simon
:)


------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #309
*****************************


From ???@??? Fri Jan 03 14:07:53 1997
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mystara-digest           Wednesday, 1 January 1997     Volume 01 : Number 310


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fabrizio Paoli <lu000122@lunet.it>
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 15:18:40 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] one BIG map...

At 09.02 28/12/96 -0600, you wrote:

>       Is there a single map of all lands on the surface of Mystara?
>(man a lot o' rambling for that one question)

Yes, in the HW boxed set and in the Rules Cyclopedia there'is such a map.

**************
Fabrizio Paoli                  brizio@lunet.it            
DM in City Of The Stars 
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html 
                                        


------------------------------

From: BerSchu@sagor.prima.ruhr.de (Bernhard Schumacher)
Date: 30 Dec 1996 13:54:00 +0200
Subject: [Mystara] AW: Kundennummer

[ Message c=DE%a=_%p=Buecher%l=SERVER1-961227150703Z-958@Server1.ABC ]
[ dated 27.12.96 *forwarded* ]
[ originally RKammerer@Buecher.com ]
[ from RKammerer@Buecher.com (Ralph Kammerer)  ]

## Nachricht am 30.12.96 archiviert
## Ursprung: /in@sagor.prima.ruhr.de

Sehr geehrter Herr Schumacher, 

das, von Ihnen gewuenschte, Buch ist bestellt. Die Lieferzeit bei
Artikeln aus Uebersee betraegt 4-6 Wochen.
Fuer Ihre weitere Online-Recherchen hier Ihre Kundennummer: 136142
Guten Rutsch in das neue Jahr.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen

Ralph Kammerer
ABC Buecherdienst GmbH
rkammerer@buecher.com


>----------
>Von:   Bernhard Schumacher[SMTP:berschu@sagor.prima.ruhr.de]
>Gesendet:      Freitag, 27. Dezember 1996 22:51
>An:    Reklamationen
>Betreff:       Kundennummer
>
>Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,
>
>vor einiger Zeit habe ich folgendes Buch bei Ihnen bestellt:
>
>
>
>
>         Autor: Amundsen, Michael
>         Titel: Communications Developers' Guide With Mapi, Sapi and
>Tapi
>   Ersch.-Jahr: 07.1996
>       Auflage: Bk&Cd-Rom
>       Einband: PAP
>         Preis: DM 85,60 B
>          ISBN: 0672309289
>        Verlag: Sams
>
>
>Ich moechte mich nun ueber den voraussichtlichen Liefertermin erkunden,
>da eine Onlinerecherche wegen fehlender Kundennummer fehlschlug.
>
>Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>
>gez. Bernhard Schumacher
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>Bernhard Schumacher
>Schleswiger Str. 30
>44145 Dortmund
>Tel.  0231-810850
>FAX   0231-810852
>email berschu@sagor.prima.ruhr.de
>
## CrossPoint v3.11 ##

------------------------------

From: BerSchu@sagor.prima.ruhr.de (Bernhard Schumacher)
Date: 30 Dec 1996 13:53:00 +0200
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Auto-Switch für Monitor/Tastatur/Maus

[ Message 6NqNJEiTVbB@sagor.prima.ruhr.de ]
[ dated 30.12.96 *forwarded* ]
[ originally mystara-l@io.com ]
[ from Kostarsus@sagor.prima.ruhr.de (Bernhard Schumacher)  ]

[ Message 199612271925.UAA22763@comserv.mubo.de ]
[ dated 27.12.96 *forwarded* ]
[ originally mubocom@mubo.de ]
[ from mubocom@mubo.de (Volker Musebrink)  ]

## Nachricht am 30.12.96 archiviert
## Ursprung: /in@sagor.prima.ruhr.de

Bernhard Schumacher writes:
> 
> Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,
> 
> bitte senden Sie mir n=E4here Informationen =FCber folgendes Produkt:
> " Auto-Switch, f=FCr Monitor / Tastatur und serielle PC-Maus, 1
> Arbeitsplatz an 6 Rechner, ArktikelNr: 1800-106".
> Insbesondere bitte ich Sie mir Informationen =FCber die Realisierung der
> Umschaltung (via Hardware oder Treiber) und die Konpatbilit=E4t mit den
> Betriebssystem Windows NT 4.0 .

Sehr geehrter Herr Schuhmacher,

die Umschaltung geschieht ueber einen Taster der immer zum naechsten Rechner
schaltet oder ueber Tastenkombinationen auf der PC-Tastatur. Damit lassen
sich alle angeschlossenen Rechner sofort auswaehlen. Ein Treiber auf
PC-Seite ist nicht notwendig, die Umschaltung ist vollkommen unabhaengig
vom gewaehlten Betriebssystem. Insbesondere lassen sich so auch Rechner
mit verschiedenen Betriebssytemen kombinieren.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen

  Volker Musebrink


- -- 
        M u b o C o m  -  Computerzubehoer und Telekommunikation
        Neunkircherstrasse 118A               66113 Saarbruecken
        EMail: mubocom@mubo.de                Tel: 0681/94819-10
        URL:   http://www.mubo.de             Fax: 0681/94819-99
## CrossPoint v3.11 ##

------------------------------

From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 23:13:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac?

 It's fairly slow during these Christmas holidays, so I'll toss out an
idea for discussion: What about writing a Poor Wizard's/Joshuan's Almanac
for the Savage Coast? We've got 4 years to catch up to the present, with
only a few scattered hints (ie, the boxed adventures, Hule builds ships in
one almanac) of what's happened. Anybody have ideas?

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
"The freeest lemming is the first one who jumps over the cliff." --Possum


------------------------------

From: Joe Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 17:52:26 -0500
Subject: RE: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

At 04:43 AM 12/28/96 -0600, you wrote:
>Blackmoor was NEVER part of Greyhawk!!!!  It was the creation of Dave
>Arneson, who ran it before D&D was even invented (using Chainmail).
>
>The Blackmoor of the modules is exactly the same Blackmoor that Dave
>Arneson used to run.  Check out the First Fantasy Campaign from
>Judges Guild.
>
>       George

        Uhm, there is a kingdom of Blackmoor in Greyhawk, and there's
one in Mystara too, they're both based on the original, of which you
speak...
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 21:20:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] one BIG map...

> I cannot piece all the
> litle maps together in any kind of order do to scale differences.
 Depending on how you work it, many photocopiers these days are able to
enlarge/reduce pictures by any arbitrary amount..

>       Is there a single map of all lands on the surface of Mystara?
> (man a lot o' rambling for that one question)

 The closest I've been able to find are the surface maps in the Hollow
World boxed set. Another possibility, though less detailed, is in the
Master's Rules (black boxed set). I've been thinking about compiling some
of the maps somehow, but I'm rather averse to cutting up my only copies..
maybe if I find an inexpensive, high-quality photocopier (that can also
help with the maps being at different scales)...

>       Also, I am about to run X2, Caslte D'Amberville, and then time warp 30
> years forward and run Mark of Amber.  Is there anything I should know
> pertinent to the two modules?

 Well, if you have both GAZ2 and Wrath of the Immortals or only the newer
Glantri boxed set, you have all the information you need about the region.
Mind you, I believe the time-warp is closer to 35 years than 30.. :)

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca


------------------------------

From: Aron Reif <areif@vt.edu>
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 17:22:25 +0500
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

At 01:05 AM 12/26/96 -0800, ashtar wrote:
>characters or our characters. What could be better then that? Also I saw
>the old blackmoor book for 50 bucks. I might pick it up. I'm sure its
>got tons of into there.
>
>What is the Inn Between Worlds?! I saw it mentioned in the Karamekios
>Boxed Set. But can someone tell me info on it?
>
>
>Ashtar
>

which book?  If you are referring to one of the DA modules, then you can get
them for alot cheaper than that (like near cover price).  I've bought many
modules from http://www.dragontrove.com.  (I'm not affiliated with it in any
way, I've just found a whole bunch of old stuff for good prices there, and I
figured that it deserved mentioning).  The owner of the site sells most of
the old D&D modules for around cover price (along with most of the other
AD&D stuff as well).  I know this just sounds like an add, but I hate to see
a fellow Mystara gamer spend $50 on something that only costs $15-20.  

If you aren't talking about one of the DA modules, then tell me where to
find this book.  I didn't think that there was any other books published on
Blackmoor, except the Greyhawk-Blackmoor, which I don't really want.

Aron Reif
areif@vt.edu


------------------------------

From: Aron Reif <areif@vt.edu>
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 17:35:17 +0500
Subject: [Mystara] North & South Poles

In several different books, the DA modules and GAZ5 off the top of my head,
it mentions that several continents "became" the North and South poles after
the Great Rain of Fire:  Blackmoor (where ever it is) became the North Pole
and the old elven homeland became the South Pole.  These books were produced
before the Hollow World concept was thought of, so when I read them, I was
assuming that there was land (most likely covered with ice) at each of the
poles.  Then came the Hollow world, with its hollow poles, so what happened
to these continents?  All this talk about the current location of Blackmoor
got me thinking about this, but since I haven't had to deal with this
information in my campaigns, I haven't given it much thought.   Anybody have
an explanation for where these continents went?  I guess you all are
currently discussing where Blackmoor is, but how about the Elven continent?
I believe that it was supposed to be located southwest of Davinia before the
Rain of Fire (however, I don't have GAZ5 with me at the moment, so I might
be wrong), so where did it move to?  On the Hollow World maps of the South
Pole (again, this is from memory only), Davinia rings almost the entire
southern "hole" (the southern entrance to the Hollow World).  There is
nothing southwest of it.  Any theories?

Aron Reif
areif@vt.edu


------------------------------

From: Shelby Michlin <shelby7@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 96 21:28:28 -0500
Subject: RE: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

- -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

George, although in most particulars you are correct, when the World of
Greyhawk was first published it included a Blackmoor. This was supposed to
be Arneson's campaign, located on Gygax's map.

Typical TSR inconsistency.

Shelby Michlin

- -------- REPLY, Original message follows --------

> Date: Saturday, 28-Dec-96 04:43 AM
> 
> From: George E. Hrabovsky      \ Internet:    (george@msn.fullfeed.com)
> To:   Post to Mystara-L        \ Internet:    (mystara-l@io.com)
> 
> Attachment: 00000001.unk Code: 04UVQT4 \ Created: Unknown [3 Kb]
> 
> Subject: RE: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?
> 
> Blackmoor was NEVER part of Greyhawk!!!!  It was the creation of Dave
Arneson,
> who ran it before D&D was even invented (using Chainmail).
> 
> The Blackmoor of the modules is exactly the same Blackmoor that Dave
Arneson
> used to run.  Check out the First Fantasy Campaign from Judges Guild.
> 
>         George
> 
> 
> ----------
> From:   Joe Duncan[SMTP:jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca]
> Sent:   Friday, December 27, 1996 2:28 PM
> To:     mystara-l@io.com
> Subject:        Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?
> 
> 
> >> It was discussed thoroughly in DA1..it is a portal between modern-day
> >> times(AC 1000) and Blackmoor and also any other period, if you ever
figure
> >> out how to work it.  It was a popular inn at the time of Blackmoor,
with
> >> ever-repleneshing food supplies and other neat magic enhancements.
> >> 
> >> Ted Striker has more guts in his little finger than most of us have in
our
> >> intestines..including the colon -McCroskey (Lloyd Bridges)
> >
> >So if someone went to this Inn Between worlds....we could go back in
> >time and play blackmoor sets with our AC characters?
> 
>         That's the basic concept for the DAx modules... Although it's a 
> different Blackmoor than the Greyhawk one...
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>         "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
>         Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
>         jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
>         cq793@freenet.carleton.ca
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 

- -------- REPLY, End of original message --------



------------------------------

From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 02:18:07 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatia/Atlantis parallels?

In a message dated 96-12-31 02:15:05 EST, dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca (Daniel
Boese) writes:

<<  So, does anybody know anything about Atlantis that could be adapted to
 use with Alphatia?  >>

Let's see --

1) One of the modules set in Norwold explicitly identified Alphatia with
Atlantis 
and gave that as a reason for siding with Alphatia -- a pretty lame reason,
IMO.

2) Both Alphatia and Atlantis were destroyed by being sunk beneath the ocean.

I suspect that the identification was intended from the beginning, so go with
it!


------------------------------

From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 02:58:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

Aron Reif pontificated:
> 
> If you aren't talking about one of the DA modules, then tell me where to
> find this book.  I didn't think that there was any other books published on
> Blackmoor, except the Greyhawk-Blackmoor, which I don't really want.

There are a Blackmoor supplement came out in the mid-70 before the
D&D split into OD&D and AD&D.  I'm not sure exactly "which" Blackmoor
is in there.  I think that is generally sells for about $30.  

> areif@vt.edu

Is that Virginia Tech?  If so, I think you are the closest person
to me that is on this list.

- -- 
Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering
Consider the following 2 reactions:   |         John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill           |    scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death                    | UVA Material Science Dept. 
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.

------------------------------

From: Joe Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 02:55:39 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] North & South Poles

At 05:35 PM 12/29/96 +0500, you wrote:
>In several different books, the DA modules and GAZ5 off the top of my head,
>it mentions that several continents "became" the North and South poles after
>the Great Rain of Fire:  Blackmoor (where ever it is) became the North Pole
>and the old elven homeland became the South Pole.  These books were produced
>before the Hollow World concept was thought of, so when I read them, I was
>assuming that there was land (most likely covered with ice) at each of the
>poles.  Then came the Hollow world, with its hollow poles, so what happened
>to these continents?  

        I believe it said somewhere in the HW boxed set that there used to 
be smaller holes in the poles before the GRF, and after the axis shift
the old holes were closed up and new larger ones were opened in the 
continents that covered the poles... Whatever was there is probably long 
gone, although there is a small colony of Blackmoor elves ( the BlackLore )
very close to the southern pole in the HW....


- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: Leroy Van Camp III <van891@uidaho.edu>
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 04:38:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] one BIG map...

On Sat, 28 Dec 1996, Joseph Duke wrote:

> Hey all,
>       The one most confusing thing I find about Mystara, I can find no single
> map that contains all the lands (save the Hollow world) of Mystara.  I
> mean a map that has Brun, Hule, the Savagae lands (excuse if I am
> repetitive or redundant :) etc...etc...etc...

    Well, there is a complete of the world in the Hollow World boxed set,
as well as in the RUles Cyclopedia, but these are not particularly
detailed.  If you are looking for a world-spanning map using the standard
hexes used in most Mystara stuff, you are out of luck.
    One of my dream projects is to find a hex-based mapping worth a damn
and map every part of Mystara that has been detailed, all in one big map.
But I have yet to find a hex-based program I like.

                              
 van891@uidaho.edu         Leroy Van Camp III        owner-mystara-l@io.com
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                "Whatever I do, you mustn't try and stop me.  
      My cries of success or screams of pain may well be inseparable."
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Callandra Gaera'Dhan, _Tiamat_





------------------------------

From: Victor Caminha <wykthor@esquadro.com.br>
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 13:41:57 -0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatia/Atlantis parallels?

At 15:29 30/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
> So, does anybody know anything about Atlantis that could be adapted to
>use with Alphatia?
>
>--
I have a strong hunch that when Mystara and its continent was planned to be
Pangea (before Hollow World was Created!), Alphatia Was considered Atlantis.
For example, In the Module CM1 Test of the Warlords, The pcs discover the
Secret Name of Alphatia, Atlantis. And in the Cm2 Death's Ride, there are
corroboration to that. So, if you are planning to use Mystara as a Fantasy
Pangea, Alphatia surely fits . 

"Receive the bounty of your hero's deed
 Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead
 Eternally running from a priestly bead
 Unable to bear the Orb in your head

 You'll walk in the darkness so alluring
 Without Hope to cleanse your sin
 Away from the joy of the living
 Forever to serve your Twin"


------------------------------

From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 13:10:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] North & South Poles

I don't remember whether I asked this before or not, if I had, I
don't think I got much feedback, so I'll try again.  How long
has the two smaller polar openings has been there?  If they has
been there since the begining, how could the immortals not
noticing the HW earlier?  And even for the immortals, do they
have the power of sealing up the two small holes and open up
the current polar opening through the antimagic shield?  And
why would the immortals want the polar openings anyway?  They
want to keep the HW isolated, why leave two holes that 
would be possible for two world to interact, consider they 
seems to have no problem transporting people in and out of
HW without using the polar openings.  This has been a question
that bugged me for a long while now.

On a somewhat related note, any one worked out HW physics?
Gravity should cancel out in the HW, and how does the floating
continent "orbit?"

Joe Duncan pontificated:
> 
>         I believe it said somewhere in the HW boxed set that there used to 
> be smaller holes in the poles before the GRF, and after the axis shift
> the old holes were closed up and new larger ones were opened in the 
> continents that covered the poles... Whatever was there is probably long 
> gone, although there is a small colony of Blackmoor elves ( the BlackLore )
> very close to the southern pole in the HW....
> 


- -- 
Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering
Consider the following 2 reactions:   |         John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill           |    scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death                    | UVA Material Science Dept. 
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.

------------------------------

From: ashtar <ashtar@geocities.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 03:24:30 -0800
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatia/Atlantis parallels?

Victor Caminha wrote:
> 
>                        Postage paid by: [Image]
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> At 15:29 30/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
> > So, does anybody know anything about Atlantis that could be adapted to
> >use with Alphatia?
> >
> >--
> I have a strong hunch that when Mystara and its continent was planned to be
> Pangea (before Hollow World was Created!), Alphatia Was considered Atlantis.
> For example, In the Module CM1 Test of the Warlords, The pcs discover the
> Secret Name of Alphatia, Atlantis. And in the Cm2 Death's Ride, there are
> corroboration to that. So, if you are planning to use Mystara as a Fantasy
> Pangea, Alphatia surely fits .
> 
> "Receive the bounty of your hero's deed
>  Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead
>  Eternally running from a priestly bead
>  Unable to bear the Orb in your head
> 
>  You'll walk in the darkness so alluring
>  Without Hope to cleanse your sin
>  Away from the joy of the living
>  Forever to serve your Twin"

I believe thats what Mystara was supposed to be, yes.  Its earth
basically. Sorta.

------------------------------

From: ashtar <ashtar@geocities.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 03:27:10 -0800
Subject: [Mystara] Mystara NPCs Flinn Fain

Victor Caminha wrote:
> 
>                        Postage paid by: [Image]
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> At 03:23 27/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >>>- Barimoor: he surely may not be as famous as Mordekainem or Elminster but
> >>surely would be a bad for any who cross with him. His history in Gaz2 is
> >>very appealing
> >
> >        Hrm, don't remember much about him...
> 
> He is a candidate to Immortality for Energy..He is fulled detailed in
> Emirates of Ylaruam...And likely to become Immortal
> 
> I have forgotten: Besides Lorde Toede, caN you imagine a Humanoid more
> famous than Thar?
> 
> sometimes i think if D&D published pocket books as it was in Dragonlance,
> Forgotten, it could surely be as fmaous as them...If not, there would  not
> be so many illustrious strangers ;)
> 
> PS: as we are talking about Mystaran NPCs why we do not keep a discussion
> about them and the impact they caused in our campaigns?
> 
> "Receive the bounty of your hero's deed
>  Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead
>  Eternally running from a priestly bead
>  Unable to bear the Orb in your head
> 
>  You'll walk in the darkness so alluring
>  Without Hope to cleanse your sin
>  Away from the joy of the living
>  Forever to serve your Twin"

Anyone ever read those Mystara books about Flinn Fain? He was supposed
to have become an immortal....why isnt he ever mentioned in any modules
or almanacs? (Unless i'm just not reading the right ones.)

Ashtar

------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #310
*****************************


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mystara-digest            Thursday, 2 January 1997      Volume 01 : Number 311


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: ChanDog21@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 08:49:13 -0500
Subject: [Mystara] Dragonlord of Mystara

I am new to the group and to Mystara for that matter.  I have only been read
the about Mystara for the past year and a half.  I started in Grayhawk 16
years ago, so please bare with me if I ask some question YOU have already
answered.

1) From all the history I have read on Mystara, the Dragonlord chronicles
never took place and if they did, when.

2) jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca (Joe Duncan) - stated that "small colony of
Blackmoor elves ( the BlackLore ) very close to the southern pole in the
HW....". My question is, are these (BlackLore), the Eldar metioned in the
chronicles?

3) If the version of history given is not correct, then what about Daimond,
the Gem dragons etc.  ?

------------------------------

From: Fabrizio Paoli <lu000122@lunet.it>
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 20:56:10 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac?

At 23.13 29/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
> It's fairly slow during these Christmas holidays, so I'll toss out an
>idea for discussion: What about writing a Poor Wizard's/Joshuan's Almanac
>for the Savage Coast? We've got 4 years to catch up to the present, with
>only a few scattered hints (ie, the boxed adventures, Hule builds ships in
>one almanac) of what's happened. Anybody have ideas?

I think that Micheal Roy has done something like that in his upcoming
Almanac for AC 1014. It should be just a matter of days before he posts it
to the list.

**************
Fabrizio Paoli                  brizio@lunet.it            
DM in City Of The Stars 
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html 
                                        


------------------------------

From: Tarjeh <tarjeh@the-lair.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 19:45:21 +-100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alphatia/Atlantis parallels?

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You Wrote:
So, does anybody know anything about Atlantis that could be adapted to
use with Alphatia?

There is a text on my homepage about atlantis.....
If  you can use the information take it....

Tarjeh
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/4071





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------------------------------

From: Tarjeh <tarjeh@the-lair.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 19:53:14 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Red Steel Almanac

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It's an excellent Idea!
I love the Red Steel setting and an Almanac will do good for the =
campaign.

Idea 1: The "Author" should be an Inheritor of one of the new races like =
lupins, tortles or rakasta... In my opinion, a tortle Inheritor (of the =
neutral guild) would be best suited. Tortles seek knowledge.=20

Question 1: What year should it be for.... We play in 1012 AC, but i'm =
sure others don't....

Tarjeh
 
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------------------------------

From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 15:57:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragonlord of Mystara

> I am new to the group and to Mystara for that matter.  I have only been read
> the about Mystara for the past year and a half.  I started in Grayhawk 16
> years ago, so please bare with me if I ask some question YOU have already
> answered.

 Pleased to meet you, <ChanDog21@aol.com>, and welcome to Mystara. :)

> 1) From all the history I have read on Mystara, the Dragonlord chronicles
> never took place and if they did, when.
 The Dragonlord books haven't been 'officially' put in a certain year, but
here are what seem to be the best guesses:

        490 AC: Setting of the novel, "Dragonlord of Mystara".
        495 AC: Setting of the novel, "Dragonking of Mystara"
        1015 AC: Projected time of the arcade game, "D&D: Tower 
of Doom".
        1017 AC: Projected time of the arcade game, "D&D: 
Shadow over Mystara".
        1018 AC: Time of the novel, "Dark Knight of 
Karameikos".


> 2) jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca (Joe Duncan) - stated that "small colony of
> Blackmoor elves ( the BlackLore ) very close to the southern pole in the
> HW....". My question is, are these (BlackLore), the Eldar metioned in the
> chronicles?

 No, the Blacklore elves are not the Eldar. (Unless you want them to be,
of course. :) ) The Blacklore elves are described in the Hollow World
boxed set as the remnants of the elves who used Blackmoor technology,
while the Eldar are the ancestors of all the elves (if memory serves).

> 3) If the version of history given is not correct, then what about
> Diamond, the Gem dragons etc.  ?

 Pardon my confusion, but what about them?

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca


------------------------------

From: Joe Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:34:21 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragonlord of Mystara

>2) jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca (Joe Duncan) - stated that "small colony of
>Blackmoor elves ( the BlackLore ) very close to the southern pole in the
>HW....". My question is, are these (BlackLore), the Eldar metioned in the
>chronicles?

        Hrm, don't think so. The BlackLore were placed in the HW after  
Blackmoor blew itself up, because they were dying out. But in order to 
stop them from blowing themselves up, the Immortals altered their
technology, to run only on magic, so they're a little useless....
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: "George E. Hrabovsky" <george@msn.fullfeed.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 05:10:04 -0600
Subject: RE: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

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As written in another posting, what i referred to was not the lip-service
that gygax gave to Blackmoor in Greyhawk, but the full-blown world; which
was never part of Greyhawk.

        George

- ----------
From:   Joe Duncan[SMTP:jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca]
Sent:   Saturday, December 28, 1996 4:52 PM
To:     mystara-l@io.com
Subject:        RE: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

At 04:43 AM 12/28/96 -0600, you wrote:
>Blackmoor was NEVER part of Greyhawk!!!!  It was the creation of Dave
>Arneson, who ran it before D&D was even invented (using Chainmail).
>
>The Blackmoor of the modules is exactly the same Blackmoor that Dave
>Arneson used to run.  Check out the First Fantasy Campaign from
>Judges Guild.
>
>       George

        Uhm, there is a kingdom of Blackmoor in Greyhawk, and there's
one in Mystara too, they're both based on the original, of which you
speak...
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------




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------------------------------

From: "George E. Hrabovsky" <george@msn.fullfeed.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 05:07:25 -0600
Subject: [Mystara] RE: More history of Gygax and Arneson.

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First of all, the Blackmoor area on Gygax's map is NOT the same
Blackmoor you find in Arneson's work.  You see, originally there
was a place on the Greyhawk world where you could get to
Blackmoor and vice-versa.  But there developed a rift between
Gygax and Arneson, due to the following enchanting story:

Arneson had been working on a new game, loosely based on,
but far extending, the fantasy rules in Chainmail.  In order to
determine if these rules should be adopted, Dave Arneson
sent or delivered them to Gygax (I no longer remember for sure).
From ???@??? Fri Jan 03 14:08:34 1997
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Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:32:53 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199701021632.KAA26399@lists.io.com>
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject:   mystara-digest V1 #311
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Over a weekend Gygax turned a rather large pile of handwritten
notes into three typed books called Dungeons and Dragons.
How much of the work was his own, and how much is Arneson's
will never be known for sure (except by the two of them).
Gygax put his name first, as I recall.  There were then four
additional books created; one for each of the test worlds, another
introducing psionics and demons, and a final book on mythology.
(Greyhawk - Gygax's world, Blackmoor - Arneson's world,
Eldritch Wizardry, and Gods, Demigods, and Heroes).  During this
time Gygax slowly puched Arneson out of the equation at TSR.
This is where the rift developed.  

When Gygax went to publish
the AD&D Greyhawk, he did not have rights and permission to
use the world of Blackmoor, so he had to invent a different
Blackmoor.  That is why there are two Blackmoors, one a
rather small and pathetic nation, the other an entire world.
When TSR finally got rid of Gygax, they honored the true
author of what could be called modern FRP, Dave Arneson.
Then of course, as TSR is wont to do, they buried him out
back where no one would notice.

        George

- ----------
From:   Shelby Michlin[SMTP:shelby7@ix.netcom.com]
Sent:   Sunday, December 29, 1996 8:28 PM
To:     George E. Hrabovsky; Post to Mystara-L
Subject:        RE: (MOrient team please read) [Mystara] Miss Mystara?

- -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --


George, although in most particulars you are correct, when the World of
Greyhawk was first published it included a Blackmoor. This was supposed to
be Arneson's campaign, located on Gygax's map.

Typical TSR inconsistency.

Shelby Michlin


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------------------------------

From: DonnLaP@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 07:11:13 -0500
Subject: [Mystara] Important Email You'll be Receiving...

Most of you know my "DonnLaP" screen name, but I'm sending out some important
email that you ought to look at under another screen name "UPAdvise"...

Please take the time to read both messages...one is about a nasty virus and
the other concerns charity.

Thanx!

Donna
8)


------------------------------

From: UPAdvise@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 07:20:53 -0500
Subject: [Mystara] Fwd: Books for Kids

In a message dated 97-01-01 18:57:42 EST, Dannaies writes:

<< 
 Forwarded Message: 
 Subj:  Fwd: BOOKS FOR SICK KIDS
 Date:  96-12-10 11:47:52 EST
 From:  TSR Inc
 
       Houghton Mifflin Publishing Corporation will donate one book to a
 children's hospital for every 25 e-mails they receive.  Please e-mail them
 at:
       share@hmco.com.
 
       I hope you can spare the seconds . . . and let your friends know.  So
 far they have only received 3, 400 messages.  Last year they reached
 23,000.
 
 - Sean >>


- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    Books for Kids
Date:    97-01-01 18:57:42 EST
From:    Dannaies
To:      DRegan32,UPAdvise,DSiddle280

Forwarded Message: 
Subj:   Fwd: BOOKS FOR SICK KIDS
Date:   96-12-10 11:47:52 EST
From:   TSR Inc

      Houghton Mifflin Publishing Corporation will donate one book to a
children's hospital for every 25 e-mails they receive.  Please e-mail them
at:
      share@hmco.com.

      I hope you can spare the seconds . . . and let your friends know.  So
far they have only received 3, 400 messages.  Last year they reached
23,000.

- - Sean

------------------------------

From: UPAdvise@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 07:20:56 -0500
Subject: [Mystara] Fwd: Password Scam

In a message dated 97-01-01 18:57:54 EST, Dannaies writes:

<< Subj:        Password Scam
 Date:  97-01-01 18:57:54 EST
 From:  Dannaies
 To:    DSiddle280, DRegan32, UPAdvise
 
 For your info. :{)
 -----------------
 Forwarded Message: 
 Subj:  Re: New Password Scam
 Date:  96-12-13 19:48:49 EST
 From:  OGF Avatar
 
 News you should be aware of.....
 
 << Please be careful of password surfer scams - here's a new one that we
just learned about...
  
  Instead of asking for it directly, they give you an 800# and Pin# (for a
pager or similar service). When you get through and enter the PIN# it sounds
very official, saying it's AOL, asking you to tell them the PW.  It sounds
legit, but it's not!  BE CAREFUL!.  Get the word out on this to IPs,
Community Leaders, their families, and anyone who uses their accounts.
  
  Bottom line - never give your AOL password or financial information out to
anyone.  Also avoid sharing accounts with others in the office.  Each person
who needs access should have a unique account and password where possible.
 Thanks for your attention to this important security reminder.
   >> >>


- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    Password Scam
Date:    97-01-01 18:57:54 EST
From:    Dannaies
To:      DSiddle280,DRegan32,UPAdvise

For your info. :{)
- -----------------
Forwarded Message: 
Subj:   Re: New Password Scam
Date:   96-12-13 19:48:49 EST
From:   OGF Avatar

News you should be aware of.....

<< Please be careful of password surfer scams - here's a new one that we just
learned about...
 
 Instead of asking for it directly, they give you an 800# and Pin# (for a
pager or similar service). When you get through and enter the PIN# it sounds
very official, saying it's AOL, asking you to tell them the PW.  It sounds
legit, but it's not!  BE CAREFUL!.  Get the word out on this to IPs,
Community Leaders, their families, and anyone who uses their accounts.
 
 Bottom line - never give your AOL password or financial information out to
anyone.  Also avoid sharing accounts with others in the office.  Each person
who needs access should have a unique account and password where possible.
 Thanks for your attention to this important security reminder.
  >>

------------------------------

From: Robert Kaelin <kaelin@natural.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 09:22:17 -0400
Subject: [Mystara] Books for Kids (NO!!!!)

>In a message dated 97-01-01 18:57:42 EST, Dannaies writes:
>
> Forwarded Message:
> Subj: Fwd: BOOKS FOR SICK KIDS
> Date: 96-12-10 11:47:52 EST
> From: TSR Inc
>
>       Houghton Mifflin Publishing Corporation will donate one book to a
> children's hospital for every 25 e-mails they receive.  Please e-mail them
> at:

> - Sean >>
>
>

(I know I'm adding to the non-Mystara thread, but I want to stop this
before it gets even more out of hand.  It'd suck for a lot of kids if this
got ruined.)

I'm positive your heart is in the right place but some things should be
brought to your attention.  (I don't speak from them, but this is what I've
heard from several sources, some of which i actually trust.)

1) They reached the limit of the number of books they planned to donate (i
think it was 2,500) a month ago.

2) Because of the response from this promotion their mail server has
crashed several times.  I don't believe they were even vaguely prepared for
how effective this would be.  (That's my opinion.)

3) They've publicly asked people to stop sending it.  They appreciate the
enthusiasm, and welcome direct phone calls but they don't want any more
e-mails.

4) There have been quite a few stories in newspapers and on the tv news
talking about how they got in way over their head in this and asking
everyone to please stop sending them.

It was a wonderful cause, but it's over now and has been for weeks.  Please
stop sending them e-mails and passing on this thread.  If this proves to be
too much of an annoyance to them and keeps crashing their mail server, I
wouldn't be surprised if they never did this promotion again.

I'll let someone else ask what the hell this has to do with Mystara.

Thank you.

- -Bob

- ------------------------------------------------
Bob Kaelin             Natural Intelligence
Software Developer     725 Concord Ave.
(617) 876-7680 x1253   Cambridge Ma. 02138
Kaelin@natural.com     <http://www.natural.com>



------------------------------

From: Robert Kaelin <kaelin@natural.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:13:06 -0400
Subject: [Mystara] Mystara NPCs Flinn Fain

>Anyone ever read those Mystara books about Flinn Fain? He was supposed
>to have become an immortal....why isnt he ever mentioned in any modules
>or almanacs? (Unless i'm just not reading the right ones.)

Yes, I read them.  The first book was great, the second was pretty good and
the third was the wierdest thing I've ever read. (I could say worse things
but I'm not sure the author isn't out there on this list and I never wrote
a novel so I'm not one to talk.)  The fact that they discover an entire
world of magic-sucking creatures bent on destorying Mystara is probably why
it's never mentioned again.

Flinn Fain was a great character, unfortunately he dies.  He does "come
back" but I don't think I would call it Immortality.  He has no sponsor,
has no idea what happened to him (it's been a while since I read it but I
don't recall them ever explaining his ghostly appearances, they may explain
it as immortality but it's utterly different from anything in the rule
books if it is) and, particulary the third book, is completely alien to
just about anything I know of written about Mystara.  In fact the books
mention VERY little "actually" in Mystara, except for some stuff on either
Kelvin or Specularum (I forget which) at the beginning as background for
one of the characters.  (I just remembered Flinn also prays to some of the
Immortals, Vanya I think.)

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn the books were written
with no particular world in mind, then TSR bought the rights to them and
threw in some Mystara stuff to try to make it seem like they were
supporting a dying campaign world.

(I'm just full of holiday cheer today, aren't it?)

Mini-review:

Read the first book, it's a great story about a fallen knight, a green
dragon who's out to destroy him, and a hopeful young squire who believes in
the knight and has her own dreams of becomming a knight.  If you like it
read the second one.  If you really want to read the third one though,
you've been warned.  (Oddly enough I only remember the name of the third
book, "The Fall of Magic".  I read them 3 or 4 years ago.)

If you have the companion level rule books, look at the front cover.
There's a great picture of a knight with a HUGE magical bastard or
two-handed sword fighting a green dragon.  They're in a forest and there's
a castle in the background.  The story was probably written with that
picture in mind because it fits it quite well.  (If you look for the books
I'm pretty sure it's also on the front cover of the first one.)

One more tid-bit.  In the D&D DM's screen there was a short adventure that
linked the world of Thunder Rift and Mystara.  (Thunder Rift was TSR's
short lived "intro" world.)  The adventure talks a little about the village
that's mentioned in the books. (I want to say the name is Bywater, but I
don't think that's right.)  It mentions the books in passing, mostlyt
because the village was all but wiped out by an orc hoard, and it's still
in the process of rebuilding when the pc's come through it.  If you're
looking for a good hook to incorporate the novels with Mystara, it's as
good a place to start as any.

Hope this helps,

- -Bob

- ------------------------------------------------
Bob Kaelin             Natural Intelligence
Software Developer     725 Concord Ave.
(617) 876-7680 x1253   Cambridge Ma. 02138
Kaelin@natural.com     <http://www.natural.com>



------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #311
*****************************




mystara-digest             Monday, 6 January 1997       Volume 01 : Number 312


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: rolfs@netway.at (Rolf Schoefnagel)
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 17:46:36 GMT
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Red Steel Almanac

>Idea 1: The "Author" should be an Inheritor of one of the new races like=
 lupins, tortles or rakasta...=20
> In my opinion, a tortle Inheritor (of the neutral guild) would be best =
suited. Tortles seek knowledge.=20

Great Idea. What about taking the special personality of turtles (how do =
we
define that?) into the writing style? Maybe by having the autor being
sometimes cryptic, with comments added by a human 'editor'?

>Question 1: What year should it be for.... We play in 1012 AC, but i'm =
sure others don't....

My Reason for playing in 1012 is that I as a DM can see some time into =
the
future. I definitely think we should keep that option in writing.

<_<  Rolf Schoefnagel >_>
<_< E-Mail: rolfs@netway.at >_>
<_< "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way." >_>

------------------------------

From: Tarjeh <tarjeh@the-lair.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 21:36:22 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Red Steel Almanac

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Let's keep the almanac at 1012 OK?

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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBF8F5.04047EA0--


------------------------------

From: ashtar <ashtar@geocities.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 19:51:41 -0800
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thunder Rift & Mystara?

Rolf Schoefnagel wrote:
> 
>                        Postage paid by: [Image]
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> >Idea 1: The "Author" should be an Inheritor of one of the new races like lupins, tortles or rakasta...
> > In my opinion, a tortle Inheritor (of the neutral guild) would be best suited. Tortles seek knowledge.
> 
> Great Idea. What about taking the special personality of turtles (how do we
> define that?) into the writing style? Maybe by having the autor being
> sometimes cryptic, with comments added by a human 'editor'?
> 
> >Question 1: What year should it be for.... We play in 1012 AC, but i'm sure others don't....
> 
> My Reason for playing in 1012 is that I as a DM can see some time into the
> future. I definitely think we should keep that option in writing.
> 
> <_<  Rolf Schoefnagel >_>
> <_< E-Mail: rolfs@netway.at >_>
> <_< "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way." >_>

Ok I have a few Thunder Rift stuff....its so wierd. How does Mystara
link to Thunder Rift? I dont know the whole story. Is Thunder Rift a
part of Mystara? Or another dimension? I Dmed it once but really didnt
know what i was doing.

------------------------------

From: Aron Reif <areif@vt.edu>
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 22:58:49 +0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara NPCs Flinn Fain

At 10:13 AM 1/2/97 -0400, Robert Kaelin wrote:
>>Anyone ever read those Mystara books about Flinn Fain? He was supposed
>>to have become an immortal....why isnt he ever mentioned in any modules
>>or almanacs? (Unless i'm just not reading the right ones.)
>
>Yes, I read them.  The first book was great, the second was pretty good and
>the third was the wierdest thing I've ever read. (I could say worse things
>but I'm not sure the author isn't out there on this list and I never wrote
>a novel so I'm not one to talk.)  The fact that they discover an entire
>world of magic-sucking creatures bent on destorying Mystara is probably why
>it's never mentioned again.
>
>Flinn Fain was a great character, unfortunately he dies.  He does "come
>back" but I don't think I would call it Immortality.  He has no sponsor,
>has no idea what happened to him (it's been a while since I read it but I
>don't recall them ever explaining his ghostly appearances, they may explain
>it as immortality but it's utterly different from anything in the rule
>books if it is) and, particulary the third book, is completely alien to
>just about anything I know of written about Mystara.  In fact the books
>mention VERY little "actually" in Mystara, except for some stuff on either
>Kelvin or Specularum (I forget which) at the beginning as background for
>one of the characters.  (I just remembered Flinn also prays to some of the
>Immortals, Vanya I think.)
>
>In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn the books were written
>with no particular world in mind, then TSR bought the rights to them and
>threw in some Mystara stuff to try to make it seem like they were
>supporting a dying campaign world.
>

I agree completely.  The books were actually rather well written, with the
first account (that I've ever read anyway) of how a powerful dragon should
actually be run.  Dragons aren't just big monsters that your characters can
just beat up on.  If they had actually lived for hundreds of years and are
that powerful, they would be much more crafty, such as the dragon in the
books (sorry, don't remember many of the details, I read them a while ago).
That dragon used ALL of it's abilities (especially polymorphing) to its
advantage, something that I think many people overlook.   That's all the
praise that I'm going to give those books however.
        As I said, I enjoyed them, but they had no business with a Mystara
label on them.  As Bob said, it seems like they were written, and then it
was decided to insert them in the Mystara world.  I'm not a novel writer,
but if I were, I would make sure my story meshed with the rest of the stuff
that's already been written.  I wouldn't want to put my name on anything
that was so obviously out of place with everything else.  The author should
have spent a few weeks at TSR going through their library trying to make the
story fit in a little better, or at least borrowed a copy of GAZ1 for a few
hours to figure out the basics.  As the story is, the knighthood that Flinn
belongs to must be VERY minor not to even merit a mention in GAZ1.  Such a
knighthood that is mentioned in the books would alter the whole power
structure of the region.  If they had changed the Baroness (or whoever she
was--the powerful lady who lived in the castle--you know who I mean) into
Duke Stephan or Baron Halaran or even Baron Kelvin, it would have been more
believable.  Actually, Baron Kelvin would have been good because there has
been very little written about him, so the author would have had more
lisence to create a character.  The knighthood could have been changed to
become Baron Kelvin's personal bodyguard and the city guard of Kelvin.  That
wouldn't have altered the story too much, and would have meshed with
everything else so much better.
        Because of these books, I didn't even bother to buy the Dragonlord
trilogy (although the people on this list have changed my mind and I'll be
buying them soon).  The Flinn trilogy was on par with most of the
Dragonlance books produced.  The first few written by Weis and Hickman were
some of the best fantasy that I've ever read, but after that, it was
basically crap written just to sell books because they knew people would buy
anything with the Dragonlance label on it.
        I wish the people who care about Mystara (or any other world, for
that matter) had more influence on what is produced.  I can't blame people
like Bruce Heard who work at TSR, because I don't think the "talent" at TSR
has much say in what's produced by them.  That's the sign of a poorly run
company.  I would like to think that if the major people at TSR (I'm
referring to the authors, because those are the names that the public sees)
had a say in what's produced, they might not make as much money, but the
stuff produced would be much higher quality.
        Anyway, I just realized how long this is, so I'll stop whining now.

Aron Reif
areif@vt.edu


------------------------------

From: rolfs@netway.at (Rolf Schoefnagel)
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 09:30:26 GMT
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thunder Rift & Mystara?

On Thu, 02 Jan 1997 19:51:41 -0800, you wrote:
>Ok I have a few Thunder Rift stuff....its so wierd. How does Mystara
>link to Thunder Rift? I dont know the whole story. Is Thunder Rift a
>part of Mystara? Or another dimension? I Dmed it once but really didnt
>know what i was doing.
>

I don=B4t have all the material on Mystara, but I am real close (I am =
only
missing a couple of modules and the Dragon magazine articles), but I =
never
heard of Thunder Rift. What is it?

<_<  Rolf Schoefnagel >_>
<_< E-Mail: rolfs@netway.at >_>
<_< "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way." >_>

------------------------------

From: Robert Kaelin <kaelin@natural.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:26:36 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thunder Rift & Mystara?

>On Thu, 02 Jan 1997 19:51:41 -0800, you wrote:
>>Ok I have a few Thunder Rift stuff....its so wierd. How does Mystara
>>link to Thunder Rift? I dont know the whole story. Is Thunder Rift a
>>part of Mystara? Or another dimension? I Dmed it once but really didnt
>>know what i was doing.
>>
>
>I don=B4t have all the material on Mystara, but I am real close (I am only
>missing a couple of modules and the Dragon magazine articles), but I never
>heard of Thunder Rift. What is it?
>

Thunder Rift was introduced about 3-5 years ago to be the new "basic"
world.  Originally, Mystara was supposed to be the "introduction to D&D"
world.  However, as Mystara became more and more detailed, and more and
more interesting it was getting too complicated for actual "basic" play.
(Hollow Worlds, New Character Classes in almost every Gaz, Immortal Rules,
really deep Weapon Mastery systems, the Radiance, councils of 1000 36th
level magic-users, Red Steel, continents sinking, etc, etc, etc.)  Mystara
was so well defined it was hard to whip together a little boxed set
designed to be cheap enough for new and young players to buy while still
being varied and interesting enough to support just about everything.  So
they created a new world called Thunder Rift.

Thunder Rift was about a simple a world as you could make it.  It was
entirely contained in a valley surounded on all sides by mountains, it
contained some forests, a swamp, even a little patch of desert I think.
None of the NPC's, town-leaders, villians, etc. were greater then 9th level
(and those that were 9th level were made out to be super-heroes).  The
basics of Thunder Rift were included in one of those "Introduction to D&D"
boxed sets a while back.  (I was trying to DM a group that had never played
D&D before so I picked it up hoping to use it to teach them, it used big
paper maps you moved counters around on...kinda like a cross between D&D
and a boardgame I suppose.)  The boxed set came with an abridge rule book
that was basically the old Basic and Expert rules combined into one.  They
also produced 4-6 modules for the world, all low level, of course.

There's no mention of where Thunder Rift is.  (Except for suggestions that
the DM can feel free to place it in any campaign world they like, even have
it move around between different worlds once a year or so.)  It was
intentionally made vague in location to be used by any DM's, and kept
isolated to prevent more powerful beings from outside coming in and taking
over so it preserved the "low-level" status quo.

The only connection between Thunder Rift and Mystara (or any campaign world
for that matter) is in a little module that was included in the D&D DM's
Screen.  It started in Thunder Rift and had the pc's trail a mage who was
planning on using a gate he had found to enter Mystara, raise a hoard of
orcs (the same orcs that razed the town in the Flinn Fain novels for those
of you playing along at home) and taking them back into Thunder Rift to
take it over.  The pc's follow him through the gate, finally catch up to
the mage and, have a fairly large fight and hopefully winning find
themselves with a whole new world to explore.  (I almost want to say the
pc's get trapped in Mystara, finding the gate closed with the mage's death,
but I'm not sure if the gate allows 2-way access to get them back to
Thunder Rift.)

I guess the idea was that players would "incubate" in Thunder Rift, then
head over to Mystara and use that as the "real" world where they could now
play with the big boys and the full set of rules.  All in all it was a
decent enough idea I thought...but i guess it didn't do that well.  Pity.

If you're looking for Mystara information for sake of completeness you may
want to try to pick up that DMs screen with the Thunder Rift -> Mystara
module in it.  It details the village from the Flinn Fain novels and an
abandonded mage's tower a couples days outside of it in Karameikos.  If you
want a really basic, low-level, world to adventure in, then you may want to
look in Thunder Rift.  It's not really a part of Mystara, but it could
probably easily be made one.

Hope this helps,

- -Bob



- ------------------------------------------------
Bob Kaelin             Natural Intelligence
Software Developer     725 Concord Ave.
(617) 876-7680 x1253   Cambridge Ma. 02138
Kaelin@natural.com     <http://www.natural.com>



------------------------------

From: ashtar <ashtar@geocities.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 23:46:09 -0800
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thunder Rift & Mystara?

Robert Kaelin wrote:
> 
>                        Postage paid by: [Image]
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> >On Thu, 02 Jan 1997 19:51:41 -0800, you wrote:
> >>Ok I have a few Thunder Rift stuff....its so wierd. How does Mystara
> >>link to Thunder Rift? I dont know the whole story. Is Thunder Rift a
> >>part of Mystara? Or another dimension? I Dmed it once but really didnt
> >>know what i was doing.
> >>
> >
> >I don´t have all the material on Mystara, but I am real close (I am only
> >missing a couple of modules and the Dragon magazine articles), but I never
> >heard of Thunder Rift. What is it?
> >
> 
> Thunder Rift was introduced about 3-5 years ago to be the new "basic"
> world.  Originally, Mystara was supposed to be the "introduction to D&D"
> world.  However, as Mystara became more and more detailed, and more and
> more interesting it was getting too complicated for actual "basic" play.
> (Hollow Worlds, New Character Classes in almost every Gaz, Immortal Rules,
> really deep Weapon Mastery systems, the Radiance, councils of 1000 36th
> level magic-users, Red Steel, continents sinking, etc, etc, etc.)  Mystara
> was so well defined it was hard to whip together a little boxed set
> designed to be cheap enough for new and young players to buy while still
> being varied and interesting enough to support just about everything.  So
> they created a new world called Thunder Rift.
> 
> Thunder Rift was about a simple a world as you could make it.  It was
> entirely contained in a valley surounded on all sides by mountains, it
> contained some forests, a swamp, even a little patch of desert I think.
> None of the NPC's, town-leaders, villians, etc. were greater then 9th level
> (and those that were 9th level were made out to be super-heroes).  The
> basics of Thunder Rift were included in one of those "Introduction to D&D"
> boxed sets a while back.  (I was trying to DM a group that had never played
> D&D before so I picked it up hoping to use it to teach them, it used big
> paper maps you moved counters around on...kinda like a cross between D&D
> and a boardgame I suppose.)  The boxed set came with an abridge rule book
> that was basically the old Basic and Expert rules combined into one.  They
> also produced 4-6 modules for the world, all low level, of course.
> 
> There's no mention of where Thunder Rift is.  (Except for suggestions that
> the DM can feel free to place it in any campaign world they like, even have
> it move around between different worlds once a year or so.)  It was
> intentionally made vague in location to be used by any DM's, and kept
> isolated to prevent more powerful beings from outside coming in and taking
> over so it preserved the "low-level" status quo.
> 
> The only connection between Thunder Rift and Mystara (or any campaign world
> for that matter) is in a little module that was included in the D&D DM's
> Screen.  It started in Thunder Rift and had the pc's trail a mage who was
> planning on using a gate he had found to enter Mystara, raise a hoard of
> orcs (the same orcs that razed the town in the Flinn Fain novels for those
> of you playing along at home) and taking them back into Thunder Rift to
> take it over.  The pc's follow him through the gate, finally catch up to
> the mage and, have a fairly large fight and hopefully winning find
> themselves with a whole new world to explore.  (I almost want to say the
> pc's get trapped in Mystara, finding the gate closed with the mage's death,
> but I'm not sure if the gate allows 2-way access to get them back to
> Thunder Rift.)
> 
> I guess the idea was that players would "incubate" in Thunder Rift, then
> head over to Mystara and use that as the "real" world where they could now
> play with the big boys and the full set of rules.  All in all it was a
> decent enough idea I thought...but i guess it didn't do that well.  Pity.
> 
> If you're looking for Mystara information for sake of completeness you may
> want to try to pick up that DMs screen with the Thunder Rift -> Mystara
> module in it.  It details the village from the Flinn Fain novels and an
> abandonded mage's tower a couples days outside of it in Karameikos.  If you
> want a really basic, low-level, world to adventure in, then you may want to
> look in Thunder Rift.  It's not really a part of Mystara, but it could
> probably easily be made one.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> -Bob
> 
> ------------------------------------------------
> Bob Kaelin             Natural Intelligence
> Software Developer     725 Concord Ave.
> (617) 876-7680 x1253   Cambridge Ma. 02138
> Kaelin@natural.com     <http://www.natural.com>
Great thats exactly the info i was wondering about.  Do you have any
idea the location that the portal was opened at in mystara? Any guesses
at least?

Ashtar

------------------------------

From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 03:00:28 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thunder Rift & Mystara?

Thunder Rift is another plane, although the area it covers is small enough
that there are many places on Mystara where it could be located.  However,
one of the Thunder Rift adventures involves interplanar transport that lands
the party in Karameikos on Mystara.

------------------------------

From: "Jared Nielsen" <grafx@genevaonline.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 12:47:08 -0600
Subject: [Mystara] Programming Opportunity

Recently I have come across some opportunities for a C++ programmer
familiar with DCOM and ActiveX for a world-design/play game.  Previous game
experience is a plus.  If anyone is interested please respond privately to
mailto:grafx@genevaonline.com
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

email: grafx@genevaonline.com
grafxcat: http://www.grafxcat.com/
gameverse: http://www.gameverse.com/
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------

From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 14:13:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Error in Red Steel box

 In the list of kits in the "Campaign Sourcebook" of the Red Steel box, I
found several references to a Thief kit named "Filcher". However, the
details of the kit itself are nowhere to be found.
 However, when I looked at the online version, the full details of the
Filcher class are where you'd expect them.

 Just to let anybody with the box but not the online file know...

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca


------------------------------

From: Tarjeh <tarjeh@geocities.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 22:16:46 +0100
Subject: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac

To Daniel:

Where is this Almanac Going... I have another Author in mind....
A Rakasta Fighting-Monk style with Long Claws or something...
If you get my point... HONORBOUND?

- -- 
- ----------------------------------------------------
By The Bloody Veins of Time!
Homepage URL: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/4071
Email Adress: tarjeh@geocities.com
Tarjeh
- ----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (Shawn)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:17:12 +0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac

>To Daniel:
>
>Where is this Almanac Going... I have another Author in mind....
>A Rakasta Fighting-Monk style with Long Claws or something...
>If you get my point... HONORBOUND?

Maybe I'm Missing Something Here but, why the big deal about who the author
of the Almanac is.  IMHO that was _the_ worst thing about Joshuan's Almanac,
the actual tying down of descriptions solely to a group of people.  The idea
works in the Gazetters and other products where you have lovely descriptions
by actual people but these were always followed by good old rules types writing.
I am not saying that a potential Red Steel Almanac shouldn't be written in this
way - I just want to know why?


Shawn Stanley
I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran
s9406058@student.anu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html



------------------------------

From: Joe Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 23:19:31 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac

At 10:16 PM 1/5/97 +0100, you wrote:
>To Daniel:
>
>Where is this Almanac Going... I have another Author in mind....
>A Rakasta Fighting-Monk style with Long Claws or something...
>If you get my point... HONORBOUND?

        Hrm, nicknamed Wolverine?
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl>
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 18:29:12 +0100
Subject: [Mystara] Email Adress change

My email adress has changed to deathw@xs4all.nl

Bas van Doornspeek

Deathwatch/COM/Tau/A9x: Doomhammer/MFRG Tool of Pain
OT: Overseer Deathwatch, DSMa *TH* FIST DH ADSS [L/Ar] (Curate)

[-=Qauke Clan Homicidal Happiness=-]


------------------------------

From: MAILER-DAEMON@sagor.prima.ruhr.de (Bernhard Schumacher's Mailer)
Date: 06 Jan 1997 09:42:00 +0200
Subject: [Mystara] E:

## Empfangsbestaetigung durch CrossPoint v3.11 R
## erhaltene Nachricht:

Message-ID:      <6OMKm4wf49B@sagor.prima.ruhr.de>
Datum/Date:      06.01.97, 09:20
Groesse/Size:    1068 Bytes
Pfad/Path:       sagor.prima.ruhr.de!BerSchu
## CrossPoint v3.11 ##

------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #312
*****************************



mystara-digest           Wednesday, 8 January 1997     Volume 01 : Number 313


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "GUILLORY: BRANT" <cah2774@texcom-hood.army.mil>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 15:01:00 -0600
Subject: [Mystara] Thunder rift location and some rambling

Form: Memo
Text: (39 lines follow)

Thunder Rift was set in a little pocket dimension, but because it was so 
small, it was easy to locate in any large mountain range on Mystara.  I, 
personally, put it in the mountains NE of Threshold toward Selenica.  
There were a series of modules released that were set in Thunder Rift.  The 
first two were not specifically placed anywhere, but were later tied in 
through the Thunder Rift gazetteer.  I refer to them as the "cave-mouth" 
modules, after the design on their cover:
Assault on Raven's Ruin
Quest for the Silver Sword
Knight of the Newts
Sword and Shield
Rage of the Rakasta
In the Phantom's Wake (higher-level module that takes the characters out of 
Thunder Rift through some sort of Portal)
The DM's screen with the mini-module
Thunder Rift itself was a "cave-mouth" cover, as well, as was the Character 
and Monster Assortment which collected all the stand-ups from the boxed sets 
and the cave-mouth modules, so you'd have extra ones to play with.

In addition, TSR published 3 large boxed sets, all the same size as the D&D 
black box.  Each had 3-4 scenarios in them, as well as rules for a 
"Dungeon"-style board game.  The first of these was set in Mystara.  I don't 
remember the title exactly, but it dealt with Dragons.  The second and thrid 
were definitively placed in Thunder Rift and were called the Haunted Tower 
and the Goblin King's Lair.  They were all pretty good sets for introductory 
players - solid scenarios, and lots of the "bells and whistles" that we all 
like:  cardboard stand-ups, large and colorful mapsheets, and lots of little 
props for the rooms.

Incidentally, the maps for all of these modules and boxed sets are all the 
same scale and style as the DragonStrike game and the Justinian's Castle 
(name check) scenario from Dungeon magazine.  The cardboard stand-ups all 
work together, and so do the figures from the boxed sets.  DragonStrike was 
a lamo game, and so was DragonQuest (the black box, not the old SPI game) 
but the props all work together, and using them with the old AC3 & 5, you 
can do some very good visual representations of darn near anything.


Use Proportional Font: true

------------------------------

From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:58:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac

At 12:17 PM 1/6/97 +0400, you wrote:
>>To Daniel:
>>
>>Where is this Almanac Going... I have another Author in mind....
>>A Rakasta Fighting-Monk style with Long Claws or something...
>>If you get my point... HONORBOUND?
>
>Maybe I'm Missing Something Here but, why the big deal about who the author
>of the Almanac is.  IMHO that was _the_ worst thing about Joshuan's=
 Almanac,
>the actual tying down of descriptions solely to a group of people.  The=
 idea
>works in the Gazetters and other products where you have lovely=
 descriptions
>by actual people but these were always followed by good old rules types
writing.
>I am not saying that a potential Red Steel Almanac shouldn't be written in=
 this
>way - I just want to know why?
>
I agree that gazeteer style is good, that way whoever has an idea for a
character that describes stuff can do it, along with everyone else.  I think
the "rules" type of writing is essential too; we need country info., army
and NPC stats, etc..  I haven't seen Joshuan's Almanac yet, so I wouldn't
know if it would work or not, but I've seen the gazeteers and in my opinion,
they rule.  I've got a couple of ideas, how about doing some stuff through
the eyes of an adventuring party, or a member of one, journal-style  or
retelling their adventures at some inn.  An organization that collects
information about Mystara would be neat (maybe based in a magocracy like
Alphatia, or in some Pachydermion civilization), and it some parts of the
almanac could be told by its members, or be quoted from its records.  Wasn't
there something like that in the AC11 The Book of Wondrous Inventions?  That
would be a good chance to utilize previous material, build upon it, and have
an original style.
I just thought it would be helpful to comment, but I probably can't
contribute much as I'm going to devote my creativity to MOrient.  It sounds
great that other projects are being discussed, and I hope a good amount of
people will work on it.  I'm just not sure if that will happen since a good
number of the members are already working on MOrient.  However, it's not a
large percentage of the list, the purpose of which is keeping Mystara alive,
so I guess a lot of people will jump at the chance to participate in any
project (major hint to "lurkers").

 /=AF=AF|=AF=AF\    /=AF\/=AF\    /=AF=AF=AF=AF\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/    =20
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net


------------------------------

From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 18:44:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: FNN (was:[Mystara] Two Mystaras?)

At 02:23 PM 12/20/96 -0500, you wrote:
>> >> > Ah well, I'm sure we'll find something equally useful to flame
>> >> > about soon enough. (Anybody care to tackle FNN?)
>> >> What is FNN?=20
>> > Fantasy News Network, the Adventurer's Journal. It's a sort of net-book
>> >of adventures for various gameworlds (including Mystara), put out every
>> >few months (when the editor gets enough submissions).
>> I've seen it, and I thought it was pretty cool.  Are there some problems
>> with it, or was that a joke?=20
> Not quite problems, just.. well, I never had to chance to see if it was
>possible to fit into the timelines without major editing. I believe that
>some of the ideas in FNN were placed in a 'future' timeline somebody
>posted, but it might have just been something similar.
>
Oh, by the way, I copied all the Mystara stuff into one file, put it in
Almanac format, and added a few decent event titles where they were missing.
If anyone wants to do  a project woth it, like adding to it, putting it in
an almanac, I'll send it to them.  It's not really useable as it is now,
since it has 2 different timelines (and if they didn't come one after the
other, may be mixed up, since I realized this when I had already put
separate sections together).  I wanted to email the authors and ask for the
dates, but I'm having internet problems and I can't get to the FNN page (or
even the Mystara list's page, by Thor!), and I didn't keep the email=
 addresses.

 /=AF=AF|=AF=AF\    /=AF\/=AF\    /=AF=AF=AF=AF\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/    =20
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net


------------------------------

From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:01:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thunder rift location and some rambling

>Thunder Rift was set in a little pocket dimension, but because it was so=20
>small, it was easy to locate in any large mountain range on Mystara.  I,=20
>personally, put it in the mountains NE of Threshold toward Selenica. =20
>
Was it really its own dimension?  I thought the idea in the book was to
place it in any world you campaign on.  Because of its exits, I treated as
it's own dimension, planet- sized at least, a sort of crossroads, with each
of it's exits going to different T$R worlds, and a couple of my own making.
It's an interesting thing for campaigns, it lets the DM take players to
other worlds, giving interesting possibilities to a campaign, and lets
players transfer to other campagins, with a feasible explanation instead of
lame stuff like "oh yeah, I went through this portal that some wizard just
happened to cast for me (even though it would be too expensive, too hard to
find someone with the capability, and they probably wouldn't do it)" or "you
find yourself in a strange land" or ignoring it entirely.

>In addition, TSR published 3 large boxed sets, all the same size as the D&D=
=20
>black box.  Each had 3-4 scenarios in them, as well as rules for a=20
>"Dungeon"-style board game.  The first of these was set in Mystara.  I=
 don't=20
>remember the title exactly, but it dealt with Dragons.=20
>
It was called the Dragons Den (original, huh?), and although the mini-game
was indeed set in Mystara, I don't think the campaign was.  I searched all
over my maps, almanacs, and couldn't find the lands on the map in the box.
The names and campaign really didn't have a Mystara-ish feel, either.  My
solution was to place it just outside Thunder Rift, by the mountains
circling it, since they both have dragon inhabited areas with mountains
nearby.  I'm using the seaport names listed in The Phantoms Wake on this
world too.  I see it as the true world that Thunder Rift exists on.  In my
campaign, I'm taking parts that I like from different worlds, and putting
them outside the exits of Thuder Rift on the world it truly exists upon, and
adding original stuff, making some sort of conglomeration of the neat parts
of different worlds.  Since the Dragon's Den minigame did refer to
Karameikos, I'll probably place the Karameikian area by the map that was in
the Dragons Den.  Maybe I'll put Blackmoor cultures from both Mystara and
Greyhawk side-by-side.  The Inn of The Last Home from Dragonlance would be
neat too.  It's all some sort of bizarre dimensional thing, maybe the Dark
Pit on the Thunder Rift map has to do with it, or maybe it goes to the
Forgotten Realms underdark.  I haven't really figured it all out yet. =20

>Incidentally, the maps for all of these modules and boxed sets are all the=
=20
>same scale and style as the DragonStrike game and the Justinian's Castle=20
>(name check) scenario from Dungeon magazine.  The cardboard stand-ups all=
=20
>work together, and so do the figures from the boxed sets.  DragonStrike was=
=20
>a lamo game, and so was DragonQuest (the black box, not the old SPI game)=
=20
>but the props all work together, and using them with the old AC3 & 5, you=
=20
>can do some very good visual representations of darn near anything.
>
Do you know what issue that was by the way?  The Character and monster
assortment sheet came with a couple of blank pieces of cardboard, so I used
those to make my own counters, so they have the same feel as the ones that
came with it.  Man, I sure have tons of goblins and things after getting all
those, has anyone noticed that?  Tons of goblins but not enough of other
monsters, ones that are generic and common to fantasy or mythology, not even
one counter of certain ones that you should have.  There's so many you have
to number them off to use many at once!  Oh well, they're still pretty neat,
and there is an advantage too.  You can use them with miniatures battles
rules without having to buy any expensive miniatures.


 /=AF=AF|=AF=AF\    /=AF\/=AF\    /=AF=AF=AF=AF\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/    =20
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net


------------------------------

From: rolfs@netway.at (Rolf Schoefnagel)
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 12:40:26 GMT
Subject: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

Hi Sean,

Just took a first glance at www.tsrinc.com/info/scanning.html.


I=B4d immediately go forward and scan, OCR and correct everything on =
Mystara
I=B4ve got (as much as possible, I know its days of work).


I guess there is a pretty simple reason why you wouldn=B4t put Mystara on=
 the
net: why get into the work to put a world online that you don=B4t sell =
any
accessoires for anymore? (Hmmm, so maybe you had the savage coast and =
orc=B4s
head nearly finished when management decided to drop Mystara because of
sales and found a highly critically acclaimed way of not loosing the
creativity involved while making shure you don=B4t risk anything on =
sales?)


Heres my antithesis: I=B4ve certainly looked as far as I could, but I =
could
not find any good gaming world on the net. Here=B4s a chance for TSR, for=
 you,
to be absolutely leading again, to do something the others wouldn=B4t. =
Here=B4s
a chance to get a group of freaks (like me) together to go on developing,
editing and bringing out new material.=20

What about all the lands east of former alphatia? What about more details=
 on
Nithia (I have some in my campaign for two years now, though the players
don=B4t have any idea where these highly magical, powerful, strange items=
 come
from that are so hard to master). What about more detailed maps (I=B4m
thinking of the level of detail and quality Columbia Games managed for =
Harn
World - we played some D&D on Harn). What about everything that doesn=B4t=
 come
into my mind within 5 minutes, that I alone could come up with given the
time, what about everything that all that guys on the Mystara mailing =
list
alone would come up with (I don=B4t know if you get it - it=B4s =
definitely more
crowded than a lot of rpg newsgroups).

Come on, guys - help us getting all the stuff we love onto the net, maybe
help us a little on building the network, give us as much as possible of
what you did NOT release on Mystara and watch grow what you planted.

<_<  Rolf Schoefnagel >_>
<_< E-Mail: rolfs@netway.at >_>
<_< "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way." >_>

------------------------------

From: Tarjeh <tarjeh@the-lair.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 22:56:38 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Red Steel Almanac

Shawn....

I like this writing style, just like in the "Volo's guide to... series =
for FR" To have an "Author" for a journal/almanac/guide/gazeteer =
whatever gives the reader a feeling...=20
New Idea: Several Authors, one for each subject?

------------------------------

From: Tarjeh <tarjeh@the-lair.com>
From ???@??? Thu Jan 09 09:35:32 1997
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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:06:08 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Red Steel Almanac

Shawn....

I like this writing style, just like in the "Volo's guide to..." series =
for FR. To have an "Author" for a journal/almanac/guide/gazeteer =
whatever gives the reader a feeling...=20
New Idea: Several Authors, one for each subject? Maybe an Adventuring =
Party or something?



------------------------------

From: Tarjeh <tarjeh@the-lair.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:07:23 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac

Hrm, nicknamed Wolverine?

Are you laughing at me? Okay... it is a little silly, but i think you =
misunderstood... Long Claws is a cultural weapon of the Rakasta..=20
It is a pair of 1' long claws fitted to the hands... (Like =
Wolverine...).
Just don't suspect anyone using such weapons as bloodthirsty, frenzied =
killers. In my campaign I developed a special Martial Art known as the =
Talon-Style Torasta based around these weapons.

Long Claws
Weight: 3lbs each
Type: P/S/B
Speed Factor 3.
Damage 1d6/1d4+1
Knockdown: d6

The Bludgeoning attack is made with the backhand, where the four blades =
are attached to a bracer and glove (A character proficient gains a -1 AC =
bonus) This attack causes only 1d4/1d3 damage, but has a knockdown of =
d10.=20

If anybody would like to know the statistics for the Talon-Style, just =
say so.


------------------------------

From: Tarjeh <tarjeh@the-lair.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 22:52:09 +-100
Subject: SV: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFCBC.438A2A00
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hrm, nicknamed Wolverine?

Are you laughing at me? Okay... it is a little silly, but i think you =
misunderstood... Long Claws is a cultural weapon of the Rakasta..=20
It is a pair of 1' long claws fitted to the hands... (Like =
Wolverine...).
Just don't suspect anyone using such weapons as bloodthirsty, frenzied =
killers. In my campaign I developed a special Martial Art known as the =
Talon-Style Torasta based around these weapons.

Long Claws
Weight: 3lbs each
Type: P/S/B
Speed Factor 3.
Damage 1d6/1d4+1
Knockdown: d6

The Bludgeoning attack is made with the backhand, where the four blades =
are attached to a bracer and glove (A character proficient gains a -1 AC =
bonus) This attack causes only 1d4/1d3 damage, but has a knockdown of =
d10.=20

If anybody would like to know the statistics for the Talon-Style, just =
say so.
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------------------------------

From: Max Wilcox <s333271@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 15:16:46 +1100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

Rolf Schoefnagel wrote:
> 
> Hi Sean,
 
SNIP>>>

> Heres my antithesis: I´ve certainly looked as far as I could, but I could
> not find any good gaming world on the net. Here´s a chance for TSR, for you,
> to be absolutely leading again, to do something the others wouldn´t. Here´s
> a chance to get a group of freaks (like me) together to go on developing,
> editing and bringing out new material.
> 
> What about all the lands east of former alphatia? What about more details on
> Nithia (I have some in my campaign for two years now, though the players
> don´t have any idea where these highly magical, powerful, strange items come
> from that are so hard to master). What about more detailed maps (I´m
> thinking of the level of detail and quality Columbia Games managed for Harn
> World - we played some D&D on Harn). What about everything that doesn´t come
> into my mind within 5 minutes, that I alone could come up with given the
> time, what about everything that all that guys on the Mystara mailing list
> alone would come up with (I don´t know if you get it - it´s definitely more
> crowded than a lot of rpg newsgroups).
> 
> Come on, guys - help us getting all the stuff we love onto the net, maybe
> help us a little on building the network, give us as much as possible of
> what you did NOT release on Mystara and watch grow what you planted.

        HERE HERE!!!! I think it's time somebody did this, too. I've looked
around the TSR site a bit, but haven't found an easily accessible link
to e-mail the people that run it, but I've been thinking of mailing them
suggestions such as this.
        I can't think of anything better than TSR making Mystara a fully
on-line world!

- - Max Wilcox

------------------------------

From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:30:52 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thunder rift location and some rambling

 >Thunder Rift was set in a little pocket dimension, but because it was so 
 >small, it was easy to locate in any large mountain range on Mystara.  I, 
 >personally, put it in the mountains NE of Threshold toward Selenica.  
 >There were a series of modules released that were set in Thunder Rift.  The

 >first two were not specifically placed anywhere, but were later tied in 
 >through the Thunder Rift gazetteer.

imc weve been roleplaying in the thunder rift since the end of '93 (iirc)
it's located in north norteastern brun
the tr was placed far to the north of the known world for a few reasons
the pcs werent around huge powers
they had less powerful heros to look up to
imc northern brun is thought of as barbaric territory
humans to the north have a different language
its just known as rift common
because of the isolation and the odd sounds that make up the language
the known world defines it as a "barbaric" human tongue
there is a young elven tribe that speaks their own dialect of the elven
tongue
they are known as the Wyver Elves (about 3 generations old)
the Dwavish race is known as the Thrifting Dwarfs
the rift isn't really known of to the known world
likewise, the PCs know little of the known world
in the campaign, a PC mage has travelled to the known world (glantri)
and was upset and furious to find out he and his nation were considered
barbaric
the PCs have attempted to seek major/minor help from the known world
but havent been taken seriously
there is a small difference in game mechanics
since the TR is so far north
the elves have become attuned to the cold 
gaining +1 to saves vs most cold attacks

- -----------Criptonite


"Brothas getting shot,
Coming back ressurected!!!"
- ----Makaveli (4-1-97)

------------------------------

From: Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@PostOffice.WorldNet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 02:42:24 +0000
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac

>>Maybe I'm Missing Something Here but, why the big deal about who the author
>>of the Almanac is.  IMHO that was _the_ worst thing about Joshuan's Almanac,
>>the actual tying down of descriptions solely to a group of people.  The idea
>>works in the Gazetters and other products where you have lovely descriptions
>>by actual people but these were always followed by good old rules types
>writing.
>>I am not saying that a potential Red Steel Almanac shouldn't be written in
this
>>way - I just want to know why?
>>
>I agree that gazeteer style is good, that way whoever has an idea for a
>character that describes stuff can do it, along with everyone else.  I think
>the "rules" type of writing is essential too; we need country info., army
>and NPC stats, etc..  I haven't seen Joshuan's Almanac yet, so I wouldn't
>know if it would work or not, but I've seen the gazeteers and in my opinion,
>they rule.  I've got a couple of ideas, how about doing some stuff through
>the eyes of an adventuring party, or a member of one, journal-style  or
>retelling their adventures at some inn.  An organization that collects
>information about Mystara would be neat (maybe based in a magocracy like
>Alphatia, or in some Pachydermion civilization), and it some parts of the
>almanac could be told by its members, or be quoted from its records.  Wasn't
>there something like that in the AC11 The Book of Wondrous Inventions?  That
>would be a good chance to utilize previous material, build upon it, and have
>an original style.

I agree that the format of the Gazetteers is really excellent.  Joshuan's
really 
can't compete, since it had no information useful for the DM.  However, I
think that Joshuan's is perfect as a complement to the PWAs.  Poor Wizard's
gave the statistics, but Joshuan's really fleshed them out, giving a great,
somewhat realistic first-person description.  I loved the PWAs, but it would
have gotten pretty boring reading the same entries year after year; many of
the country and NPC descriptions were identical in all three.  If Joshuan's
was continued, perhaps with a small supplement for the DMexplaining the
numbers and facts behind what was reported, I think it would have been a
great series.  Each year, different nations could have beeen highlighted.
The one Joshuan's that was produced had the best description of Glantrian
culture, society, and people of any product that I have ever seen (I've
never read GAZ3, but Joshuan's brings Glantri to life far more than the AD&D
Glantri boxed set).  The first-person perspective of Joshuan's would be
great for a Red Steel Almanac, but it would also need a supplement for the
DM only which gives facts and stats.

>I just thought it would be helpful to comment, but I probably can't
>contribute much as I'm going to devote my creativity to MOrient.  It sounds
>great that other projects are being discussed, and I hope a good amount of
>people will work on it.  I'm just not sure if that will happen since a good
>number of the members are already working on MOrient.  However, it's not a
>large percentage of the list, the purpose of which is keeping Mystara alive,
>so I guess a lot of people will jump at the chance to participate in any
>project (major hint to "lurkers").


I completely agree!  If we want to preserve Mystara, we all must work together.
We don't all need to agree about everything we make up since any DM can and
should change the world as he or she likes, but we all must work to keep
Mystara going! 
Patrick


------------------------------

From: Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@PostOffice.WorldNet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 05:14:23 +0000
Subject: [Mystara] Diane de Moriamis

I just bought and read Mark of Amber.  It paints a VERY different picture of
Vicomtesse Diane of Malinbois than other sources that I have seen.  I was
wondering what the story 
behind this was.  
The earliest description of Dian which I have is in PC4, in which Anne
Dupuis gives a 
wonderful description of a shallow, annoying, hideous woman who is only
interested in 
getting more and more presents.  This description (which, for all I know,
may have come 
Gaz3 or X2) was supported in the Glantri: Kingdom of Magic boxed set, which
updated PC4
to say that Malachie had married Diane, and they had an unhappy marriage.
Mark of
 Amber, however, describes Diane as a much more attractive, interesting, and
intelligent
wqoman.  It says that she willingly entered into a loveless marriage with
Malachie to 
gain political power, and they actually get along quite well as friends.  I
seem to 
recall that Joshuan's also supported something along these lines, but I
don't really 
know, and the PWAs never mentioned Diane.  Was this done simply because the
new "good" 
Malachie did not seem like the type of person who would have caused this
pathetic 
woman all the suffering of an unhappy marriage?  

Also, another related question: 
Why would Genevieve de Sephora cooperate with Isidore and Henri as rulers of
Nouvelle
Averoigne when she is so harshly anti-lycanthrope?

Thanks for your help!
Patrick


------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #313
*****************************




mystara-digest            Thursday, 9 January 1997      Volume 01 : Number 314


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:20:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Diane de Moriamis

 >Was this done simply because the new "good" 
 >Malachie did not seem like the type of person who would have caused this
pathetic 
 >woman all the suffering of an unhappy marriage?  
i really dont know 
it does seem like an AD&D change though

 >Also, another related question: 
 >Why would Genevieve de Sephora cooperate with Isidore and Henri as rulers
of
 >Nouvelle Averoigne when she is so harshly anti-lycanthrope?
the descriptions of genevieve seemed to change also
when mystara went to AD&D
genevieve would have loved being in a country ruled by werewolves
compared to living in old averoigne
i think she would rather be the hunter than the one being hunted
did she really cooperate with richard and isidore?
or did she just exist with them
i could easily be wrong but didnt genevieve not get along with them
i think she just lived there as a member of the dambreville extended family
probably waiting for a new ruler

------------------------------

From: Enrique Pacheco <pach@mail.geocities.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 20:25:56 -0600
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

I have a Nithian Escarpment encounter table at my page:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2426/index.html

Any further information about Nithia would be welcomed since one of my
current campaigns is taking place there.
- -- 
"Too much lov will kill you
in the end..."
Too much love will kill you. Queen, 1995.
Enrique Pacheco. Email: pach@mail.geocities.com

------------------------------

From: Victor Caminha <wykthor@esquadro.com.br>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 11:45:21 -0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac

A
>>I just thought it would be helpful to comment, but I probably can't
>>contribute much as I'm going to devote my creativity to MOrient.  It sounds
>>great that other projects are being discussed, and I hope a good amount of
>>people will work on it.  I'm just not sure if that will happen since a good
>>number of the members are already working on MOrient.  However, it's not a
>>large percentage of the list, the purpose of which is keeping Mystara alive,
>>so I guess a lot of people will jump at the chance to participate in any
>>project (major hint to "lurkers").
>
Hmmm...I am that type of lurker...what i could do to help? And besides
MOrient (which i do not extensevely know)there are any other projects currently?

"Receive the bounty of your hero's deed
 Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead
 Eternally running from a priestly bead
 Unable to bear the Orb in your head

 You'll walk in the darkness so alluring
 Without Hope to cleanse your sin
 Away from the joy of the living
 Forever to serve your Twin"


------------------------------

From: rolfs@netway.at (Rolf Schoefnagel)
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 16:59:05 GMT
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

On Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:52:15 -0500, TSRInc@aol.com wrote:

That list is of "classic" material that is generally unavailble any other
way, whether due to copies being destroyed, collectors hoarding them, =
etc.

It's not new material - it's material that has already been finished and
printed, long ago.  Processing this material will not take time away from
anyone on the creative services staff (who should be working on projects
listed in the 19997 catalog).

It's not material that is still widely available in print, with copies
fairly easy to find.

What you're asking is for use to devote people to produce product that
will be put online for free, and not for sale.  Material for a game line
that, when it _was_ being printed, wasn't selling enough copies to make
up for the cost of printing, development, editing, etc.  In other words,=20
this material, if placed online, will _never_ make up for those costs.

I have nothing against Mystara.  I, like many people, started playing
RPGs by playing in the D&D Known World.  I went through the Keep on the
Borderlands.  I played through the Isle of Dread.  I remember the setting
fondly.  But what you're asking is just not economically feasible.


- --=20
Sean Reynolds, TSR Online Coordinator
TSRinc@aol.com | AOL: keyword TSR | http://www.tsrinc.com
1997 Gen Con and Winter Fantasy prereg forms are at the sites above.



<_<  Rolf Schoefnagel >_>
<_< E-Mail: rolfs@netway.at >_>
<_< "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way." >_>

------------------------------

From: rolfs@netway.at (Rolf Schoefnagel)
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 17:05:35 GMT
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

On Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:52:15 -0500, TSRInc@aol.com (Sean Reynolds) wrote:

>That list is of "classic" material that is generally unavailble any =
other
>way, whether due to copies being destroyed, collectors hoarding them, =
etc.

As almost everything of the Mystara stuff is.

>What you're asking is for use to devote people to produce product that
>will be put online for free, and not for sale.  Material for a game line
>that, when it _was_ being printed, wasn't selling enough copies to make
>up for the cost of printing, development, editing, etc.  In other words,=
=20
>this material, if placed online, will _never_ make up for those costs.

You definitely absolutely totally got me wrong on this. What you are =
saying
is obvious to me. As I was working for Coca-Cola marketing for a couple =
of
years I understand the fundamentals of how a company works and makes =
money.
I was talking about:

- -  Freaks like me and some others I know of by now (via the Mystara =
mailing
list) who are _not_ getting payed for this by anyone.
- - TSR giving us  (in order of preferrence, best option last)
     1. a link on www.tsrinc.com to our place and OK from TSR to put
          selected copywrited material there (we tell you what we=B4d =
like
          to put there, you tell us if it=B4s ok).
     2. the chance to put our stuff to the upload area on www.tsrinc.com
     3. making a dedicated area on www.tsrinc.com for Mystara, that is=20
          not open to public upload, but only for that group of people.
          This, of course would only be a valid idea if we can come up
          with better quality than most of the other netbooks.

I was definitely _NOT_ asking for:

1. TSR to devote any kind of work on this (apart from maybe putting it on
the server).
2. TSR giving us an OK to put your logo and whatever else on any kind of =
new
material. Obviously, if we come up with something new, you wouldn=B4t =
want to
edit it and you wouldn=B4t let anybody put a TSR logo on anything you =
didn=B4t
edit.

All I basically wanted is that TSR gives the OK to put some of their
copywrited, out of sale, out of stock material on their or some other
server.

<_<  Rolf Schoefnagel >_>
<_< E-Mail: rolfs@netway.at >_>
<_< "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way." >_>

------------------------------

From: Diego Calugi <scalugi@biuno.dada.it>
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 19:44:11 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Amber

Hallo, I am a new member of the group and also a new player of the
Mystara world. I haven't got many modules, so please bare with me if I
ask "stupid" questions.

I'm going to play X2: Castle Amber (Chateau d'Amberville) and I have
heard of other references about the Amber family and their homeland on
others modules. Does anybody knows where?

Thank you,
                Diego "CFH"

------------------------------

From: Tarjeh <tarjeh@the-lair.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:50:50 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac Participants

Okay...
So...

Who is in on this?

Tarjeh


------------------------------

From: Victor Caminha <wykthor@esquadro.com.br>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 20:12:48 -0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Amber

>I'm going to play X2: Castle Amber (Chateau d'Amberville) and I have
>heard of other references about the Amber family and their homeland on
>others modules. Does anybody knows where?
>
>Thank you,
>               Diego "CFH"
>
Hi!Welcome to the list!Although my greetings do not count much a s i spend
most of the time here lurkin' :)

About the d'Ambrevilles, there is a LOT on info in the Mark of Amber...Even
now there are going to be a discussion about The Amber Family

[]s
Victor

"Receive the bounty of your hero's deed
 Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead
 Eternally running from a priestly bead
 Unable to bear the Orb in your head

 You'll walk in the darkness so alluring
 Without Hope to cleanse your sin
 Away from the joy of the living
 Forever to serve your Twin"


------------------------------

From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:21:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

On Tue, 7 Jan 1997, Rolf Schoefnagel wrote:
> Heres my antithesis: I've certainly looked as far as I could, but I 
> could not find any good gaming world on the net. Here's a chance for
> TSR, for you, to be absolutely leading again, to do something the others
> wouldn't. Here's a chance to get a group of freaks (like me) together to
> go on developing, editing and bringing out new material. 

> Come on, guys - help us getting all the stuff we love onto the net,
> maybe help us a little on building the network,
> and watch grow what you planted.

 Now /this/ is a project worth doing. I'm willing to help however I can;
scanning, editing, organizing, or whatever. Mystara, as TSR's first
published world, could easily help TSR move into 2000 as TSR's first
online world.
 Sorry about the platitudes. But this is one of the best ideas I've seen
this year (sorry.. include last year, too :) ) for role-playing games. It
could easily take months for the "higher-ups" at TSR to approve it, but we
can start laying as much groundwork as possible until then. If any other
fans of Mystara are willing to help in this, you might want to give Sean a
/short/ message (he already gets too much email) telling him so.

> give us as much as possible of what you did NOT release on Mystara

 Actually, I understand that there is very little, if any, unpublished
information in Mystara. I believe that Sean's wording was that "after
putting all the development and creative work into a product, TSR has
nothing to gain by /not/ publishing it.".

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca


------------------------------

From: TSRInc@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 19:47:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Winter Fantasy 1997 is cancelled

[Sorry to crosspost this to so many lists, but I want this info 
to get out before people make travel plans.]

TSR's 1997 Winter Fantasy Convention has been cancelled.
All registrations that have been recieved and processed
will be reimbursed.

If your registration has not been processed, your check
will be returned and.or your credit card will not be charged.

If you have any questions regarding your registration only -
contact Sandy Kinney at 414/248-3625.

Please pass on this information to any offline people that
you know, as it is possible that they wouldn't find out about
this through any other means, due to the time being so short.

- - Sean

- -- 
Sean Reynolds, TSR Online Coordinator
TSRinc@aol.com | AOL: keyword TSR | http://www.tsrinc.com
1997 Gen Con prereg forms are at the sites above.


------------------------------

From: "Dean Gilbert" <vertigo@microtec.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:37:00 +0000
Subject: [Mystara] Games in Montreal?

I was wondering if anyone has a Mystara campaign that could use 
another player?  If so, please email me.

------------------------------

From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:30:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac Participants

> Okay...
> So...
> 
> Who is in on this?

 I offer my services as anything but editor/organizer - I'm notoriously
bad at being in charge. :)

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca


------------------------------

From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:02:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

 >> give us as much as possible of what you did NOT release on Mystara
 
 > Actually, I understand that there is very little, if any, unpublished
 >information in Mystara. I believe that Sean's wording was that "after
 >putting all the development and creative work into a product, TSR has
 >nothing to gain by /not/ publishing it.".

they released as much published material as they could about mystara
leaving little to nothing of their material to sell
but obviously they didnt publish all of their ideas
with Joshuans Almanac they intentionally left us with many unanswered
questions
wars were beginning and ending
the known world was learning of the hollow world
there were many candidates trying to achieve immortality
plus there were many predictions left at the end of the book
Mark of Amber left us wondering
whats going to happen to the most powerful country in the world now
there is countless examples i could mention
but i think everyone knows what im getting at

what id like to hear from tsr is their ideas
i dont know who could tell us them exactly
but only a small portion of their ideas for mystara actually got published
could the ones with the answers 
inform us to what they were driving toward or what they were planning
i know we can all continue mystara the way we like
but it would be very interesting to see what the ones
who originally developed mystara for us were thinking

- --------Criptonite

------------------------------

From: Aron Reif <areif@vt.edu>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 22:16:50 +0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

At 02:21 PM 1/7/97 -0500, you wrote:
>On Tue, 7 Jan 1997, Rolf Schoefnagel wrote:
>> Heres my antithesis: I've certainly looked as far as I could, but I 
>> could not find any good gaming world on the net. Here's a chance for
>> TSR, for you, to be absolutely leading again, to do something the others
>> wouldn't. Here's a chance to get a group of freaks (like me) together to
>> go on developing, editing and bringing out new material. 
>
>> Come on, guys - help us getting all the stuff we love onto the net,
>> maybe help us a little on building the network,
>> and watch grow what you planted.
>
> Now /this/ is a project worth doing. I'm willing to help however I can;
>scanning, editing, organizing, or whatever. Mystara, as TSR's first
>published world, could easily help TSR move into 2000 as TSR's first
>online world.
> Sorry about the platitudes. But this is one of the best ideas I've seen
>this year (sorry.. include last year, too :) ) for role-playing games. It
>could easily take months for the "higher-ups" at TSR to approve it, but we
>can start laying as much groundwork as possible until then. If any other
>fans of Mystara are willing to help in this, you might want to give Sean a
>/short/ message (he already gets too much email) telling him so.
>
>> give us as much as possible of what you did NOT release on Mystara
>
> Actually, I understand that there is very little, if any, unpublished
>information in Mystara. I believe that Sean's wording was that "after
>putting all the development and creative work into a product, TSR has
>nothing to gain by /not/ publishing it.".
>
>--
>Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
>
>

and if TSR wants to make a little money on this venture, they could even
copy all this stuff onto CD-ROMs and sell them for like $10 for a CD full of
old games.  That's what older [computer/video] games do all the time, and
even though they don't make much money at it, the cost of copying to a CD is
minimal if the "product" is already written.  I find that it works very well
with software, since I often don't want to spend $50 on a game.  I can wait
a few years to have the company release just the software (most of the
manuals and "extras" are not included) for $10-15.  I've bought many games
this way, and I think it would be a good way for TSR to make a little money
on something that they've already invested in.  This makes even more sense
if people are already going to "digitize" the books anyway, for use online.
I, for one, would spend the $10 for the CD so that I wouldn't have to spend
hours online trying to download the files.  Anybody else like this idea?
Anybody from TSR paying attention???

Aron Reif
areif@vt.edu


------------------------------

From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 20:33:29 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Diane de Moriamis

On Wed, 8 Jan 1997, Patrick wrote:

> I just bought and read Mark of Amber.  It paints a VERY different picture of
> Vicomtesse Diane of Malinbois than other sources that I have seen.  I was
> wondering what the story behind this was.

Ooooh! I'm going to have to pick this up for sure, now. I've never 
particularly liked the description of Moriamis (no offense Bruce!), 
especially after reading the short story "A Rendezvous in Averoigne" by 
Clark Ashton Smith, wherein her character is introduced. First off, she 
is described as being breathtakingly beautiful, as well as turning out to 
be a clever manipulator. This description of her is one that I tend to 
use, and in fact, is the basis for her character as I depict her in my 
(hopefully soon to be completed, at least the first episode) cartoon 
series based in Glantri. I've personally worked out a whole plotline and 
timeline around this mysterious woman, who isn't at all what she appears 
to be.
  
> Mark of Amber, however, describes Diane as a much more attractive, 
> interesting, and intelligent woman.  It says that she willingly entered into 
> a loveless marriage with Malachie to gain political power, and they actually 
> get along quite well as friends.  I seem to recall that Joshuan's also 
> supported something along these lines, but I don't really know, and the PWAs 
> never mentioned Diane.  Was this done simply because the new "good" 
> Malachie did not seem like the type of person who would have caused this
> pathetic woman all the suffering of an unhappy marriage?  

I'd say (having not read Mark of Amber), that the author of that module 
went by the description of Moriamis given in the short story (which, as I 
mentioned, IMO makes her a much more viable character). I'd say (and have 
said IMC) that her public exterior- a plump, unattractive, bald woman- 
was merely a show for the rest of the nobility of Glantri, to distract 
their attention away from her true ability. Now that she is effectively a 
Princess, she may or may not need to continue the charade. Note also that 
she is a powerful chronomancer, and always has been, which in my mind 
sort of puts the lie to the possibility of her ever having been as 
incompetent as she seemed.

> Also, another related question: 
> Why would Genevieve de Sephora cooperate with Isidore and Henri as rulers of
> Nouvelle Averoigne when she is so harshly anti-lycanthrope?

She doesn't know that they are werewolves. :) She doesn't even know for 
sure that Malachie is one, though she strongly suspects that he is.


------------------------------

From: Victor Caminha <wykthor@esquadro.com.br>
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 02:57:25 -0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac Participants

> I offer my services as anything but editor/organizer - I'm notoriously
>bad at being in charge. :)
>
well, i do not have any special talents, but i am willing to sweat a bit?Is this
a reference?

"Receive the bounty of your hero's deed
 Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead
 Eternally running from a priestly bead
 Unable to bear the Orb in your head

 You'll walk in the darkness so alluring
 Without Hope to cleanse your sin
 Away from the joy of the living
 Forever to serve your Twin"


------------------------------

From: TSRBruce@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 02:18:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

In a message dated 97-01-09 00:18:32 EST, Aaron Reif wrote:

<< Anybody from TSR paying attention??? >>

Um, yes. Some of us are, even if we remain silent for the most part. Thanks
for the ideas. I'll see what I can do about this one.  :)

Bruce Heard


------------------------------

From: NDASKAL@delphi.com
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 09:15:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Apology

Dear Mystara List,
  I'm sorry if my previous note was garbled.  I don't usually
use the mailer at Delphi and I sent the note by mistake before
I could edit the typos.  To reiterate the main point, if any
of you would like me to publish reference information about 
the Known World setting or original D&D on my web page, please
e-mail me at ndaskal@delphi.com.  Thanks.

------------------------------

From: NDASKAL@delphi.com
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 09:01:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] My web page

Dear Knwown World fans,
I am a former DM.  I have a rather complete collection of Known World/
original D&D material.  I love the old (not A) game and the Known World
setting.  I'd like to publish useful reference material on my web page:
thttp://people.delphi.com/ndaskal/
If any of you are interested, please e-mail me at ndaskal@delphi.com.
Happy adventruring!
/edit

/help
/ehhelp
/help

------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #314
*****************************


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mystara-digest            Friday, 10 January 1997      Volume 01 : Number 315


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: rolfs@netway.at (Rolf Schoefnagel)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 15:45:11 GMT
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac Participants

Tarjeh: I got a problem with your e-mail adress. could you mail me your =
real
one?

<_<  Rolf Schoefnagel >_>
<_< E-Mail: rolfs@netway.at >_>
<_< "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way." >_>

------------------------------

From: rolfs@netway.at (Rolf Schoefnagel)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 16:39:32 GMT
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

To: rolfs@netway.at
Subject: Re: TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online
=46YI:

>From: TSRInc@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:10:58 -0500 (EST)
>
>In a message dated 1/8/97 11:10:18 AM, you wrote:
>
>>     2. the chance to put our stuff to the upload area on =
www.tsrinc.com
>
>We will definitely have this.
>
>--=20
>Sean Reynolds, TSR Online Coordinator
>TSRinc@aol.com | AOL: keyword TSR | http://www.tsrinc.com
>1997 Gen Con and Winter Fantasy prereg forms are at the sites above.

<_<  Rolf Schoefnagel >_>
<_< E-Mail: rolfs@netway.at >_>
<_< "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way." >_>

------------------------------

From: rolfs@netway.at (Rolf Schoefnagel)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 16:50:41 GMT
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

=46YI:

I am posting you what I got from TSR on Mystara online. Seems like they
don=B4t want us to try and make something big again that they can=B4t =
make any
money with anymore, but rather sit on it (WE GOT THE COPYRIGHT, IT=B4S =
MINE,
IT=B4S ALL MINE) and make shure everybody has to buy stuff from lines =
that are
still on sale. I=B4m not shure if any of us can do anything about it, but=
 I=B4ll
follow up and see what I can do.

Just, please, everybody who=B4d like to see Mystara as complete as =
possible
ONLINE, reply to me via email so that I know if there=B4s interest for =
it.

>To: rolfs@netway.at
>From: TSRInc@aol.com
>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:09:54 -0500 (EST)
>
>In a message dated 1/9/97 4:52:18 AM, you wrote:
>>>>     2. the chance to put our stuff to the upload area on =
www.tsrinc.com
>>>
>>>We will definitely have this.
>>>
>>
>>I am talking TSR copywrited material.
>
>That's not what you said - you said "our stuff," which I took to mean
>"stuff that we (online Mystara fans) have created."  Copyrighted=20
>TSR-published Mystara stuff is _TSR's_ stuff.
>
>There are no plans to put any Mystara stuff online right now, but then =
again
>the last time I went hunting for product was eight months ago.  Things
>change, and things can be added to the list.
>
>--=20
>Sean Reynolds, TSR Online Coordinator
>TSRinc@aol.com | AOL: keyword TSR | http://www.tsrinc.com
>1997 Gen Con prereg forms are at the sites above.

<_<  Rolf Schoefnagel >_>
<_< E-Mail: rolfs@netway.at >_>
<_< "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way." >_>

------------------------------

From: rolfs@netway.at (Rolf Schoefnagel)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 17:32:59 GMT
Subject: [Mystara] Re: TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

On Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:09:54 -0500 (EST), you wrote:
>In a message dated 1/9/97 4:52:18 AM, you wrote:
>>I am talking TSR copywrited material.
>
>That's not what you said - you said "our stuff," which I took to mean
>"stuff that we (online Mystara fans) have created."  Copyrighted=20
>TSR-published Mystara stuff is _TSR's_ stuff.
>
>There are no plans to put any Mystara stuff online right now, but then =
again
>the last time I went hunting for product was eight months ago.  Things
>change, and things can be added to the list.

I feared so. So it seems like I=B4m getting a couple of people together =
who=B4d
only be too willing to organize TSR=B4s Mystara stuff in some kind of =
data
format (RTF? TXT? Winword? HTML?), if we get a chance to give it to the
community, which (in my own humble opinion), shouldn=B4t happen anywhere =
else
than on TSR=B4s web page, if and only if the quality is good enough for =
you to
say that it=B4s something you can live with.

There=B4s a lot of folks out there that spent lots of bucks on Mystara
material, but couldn=B4t buy it all. They=B4re fans. They want it all. =
Some of
them are ready to sweat&work for it.

I guess the main question is: will TSR lose money by putting a complete,
detailed gameworld on the net because people will not buy what=B4s out =
now?

I don=B4t think so. There=B4s no new D&D stuff coming, no more basic =
rules
available, and I don=B4t think we=B4ll do a conversion to AD&D rules (I =
can
imagine the internal flames about what optional rules to use, I =
wouldn=B4t
want to redesign all D&D optional rules put out in the Gazetters for =
AD&D),
so the playability wouldn=B4t be nearly as good as with any AD&D product.=
 It=B4d
be a pool for those who miss parts, a pool of ideas and a display of the =
(as
far as I know) biggest, most complex, most detailed and greatest =
gameworld
TSR has put out so far. It=B4d also show how D&D evolved (remember =
Treshold,
remember Bargle, remember how this world grew instead of being designed =
in
one step and only detailed later?). It=B4d display what separates TSR =
from all
the other companies out there.

So -=20

What=B4s the procedure?
Who desides on the content of the online list?
Any chance that you could at least tell us why Mystara is not on the =
list?

<_<  Rolf Schoefnagel >_>
<_< E-Mail: rolfs@netway.at >_>
<_< "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way." >_>

------------------------------

From: rolfs@netway.at (Rolf Schoefnagel)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 18:39:12 GMT
Subject: Re: [Mystara] My web page

On Thu, 09 Jan 1997 09:01:40 -0500 (EST), you wrote:

>Dear Knw=08own World fans,
>I am a former DM.  I have a rather complete collection of Known World/
>original D&D material.  I love the old (not A) game and the Known World
>setting.  I'd like to publish useful reference material on my web page:

Ok, We might have something here.=20

One important question is where you are geographically located. If you
publish any TSR copywrited material on your personal homepage, they will
definitely rip your ass open (I don=B4t mean to be over-literate, but =
that=B4s
the way I see it).

Next Question: Is it only you=B4d like to publish the information, or =
would
you find the time to help getting the stuff into usable online material?

Let me know if you=B4d like to be on my adress list for how things =
develop.

<_<  Rolf Schoefnagel >_>
<_< E-Mail: rolfs@netway.at >_>
<_< "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way." >_>

------------------------------

From: Fabrizio Paoli <lu000122@lunet.it>
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 21:19:51 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac Participants

At 22.50 08/01/97 +-100, you wrote:
>Okay...
>So...
>
>Who is in on this?
>
Wait a moment. As I said in a previous mail Micheal Roy <mroy@cyberus.ca> is
working on an Almanac for Mystara for the year 1013 AC. This almanac is a
mix between JA and PWA and it should have info on the  Savage Coast too
(also about the "missing" years between 1010 AC and 1013 AC). This almanac
was supposed to be ready for December 1996, but probably Micheal was busy
with the school.
I suggest that before starting to work on it it's better to see what Micheal
wrote.
I'll contact him personally.

**************
Fabrizio Paoli                  brizio@lunet.it            
DM in City Of The Stars 
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html 
                                        


------------------------------

From: Tarjeh <tarjeh@the-lair.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:29:58 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] Okay.... (Almanac)

This Far, I have noticed that
Daniel Boese and Victor Caminha, plus me, are in on this Almanac-writing.... 

I got something from Rolf Schoefnagel too....
Are you in on this?

Tarjeh

"Anywhere the wind blows, doesn't really matter to me"


------------------------------

From: Tarjeh <tarjeh@the-lair.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:25:04 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] E-mail Adress Error!

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFE7C.A7E4A540
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Oh....
Yeah...

I found this place a month ago, adress http://www.starmail.com
There i got this fancy adress: tarjeh@the-lair.com 
That's the good part... 
The bad part is, that after distributing this adress to EVERYONE i know, i turns out it doesn't work anymore!

DO NOT GET A STARMAIL ADRESS!

My Email Adress is:

kstephan@online.no
(My Father's, although he never get any mail!)

Tarjeh


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------------------------------

From: "GUILLORY: BRANT" <cah2774@texcom-hood.army.mil>
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:39:00 -0600
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

Form: Reply
Text: (9 lines follow)
I'm definitely interested, and I'd be willing to send you the few netMAGS 
that we've compiled on the Mystara message board on AOL.  If there's an 
interest in them, I can definitely get them to you.  Besides, Mystaros 
writes better than 95% of the TSR staffers, and his stuff is FREE!  (tough 
deal to beat, huh?)

Brant
B1Bard@aol.com (home)
or above address (at work)
Original text: (43 lines follow)
>From ROLFS @ SMTP (Rolf Schoefnagel) {rolfs@netway.at}, on 1/9/97 10:50:
FYI:

I am posting you what I got from TSR on Mystara online. Seems like they
don¦t want us to try and make something big again that they can¦t make any
money with anymore, but rather sit on it (WE GOT THE COPYRIGHT, IT¦S MINE,
IT¦S ALL MINE) and make shure everybody has to buy stuff from lines that are
still on sale. I¦m not shure if any of us can do anything about it, but I¦ll
follow up and see what I can do.

Just, please, everybody who¦d like to see Mystara as complete as possible
ONLINE, reply to me via email so that I know if there¦s interest for it.

>To: rolfs@netway.at
>From: TSRInc@aol.com
>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:09:54 -0500 (EST)
>
>In a message dated 1/9/97 4:52:18 AM, you wrote:
>>>>     2. the chance to put our stuff to the upload area on www.tsrinc.com
>>>
>>>We will definitely have this.
>>>
>>
>>I am talking TSR copywrited material.
>
>That's not what you said - you said "our stuff," which I took to mean
>"stuff that we (online Mystara fans) have created."  Copyrighted 
>TSR-published Mystara stuff is _TSR's_ stuff.
>
>There are no plans to put any Mystara stuff online right now, but then 
again
>the last time I went hunting for product was eight months ago.  Things
>change, and things can be added to the list.
>
>-- 
>Sean Reynolds, TSR Online Coordinator
>TSRinc@aol.com | AOL: keyword TSR | http://www.tsrinc.com
>1997 Gen Con prereg forms are at the sites above.

<_<  Rolf Schoefnagel >_>
<_< E-Mail: rolfs@netway.at >_>
<_< "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way." >_>
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------------------------------

From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 16:47:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac

At 05:07 PM 1/7/97 +-100, you wrote:
>Hrm, nicknamed Wolverine?
>
>Are you laughing at me? Okay... it is a little silly, but i think you
misunderstood... Long Claws is a cultural weapon of the Rakasta..=20
>It is a pair of 1' long claws fitted to the hands... (Like Wolverine...).
>Just don't suspect anyone using such weapons as bloodthirsty, frenzied
killers. In my campaign I developed a special Martial Art known as the
Talon-Style Torasta based around these weapons.
>
>Long Claws
>Weight: 3lbs each
>Type: P/S/B
>Speed Factor 3.
>Damage 1d6/1d4+1
>Knockdown: d6
>
>The Bludgeoning attack is made with the backhand, where the four blades are
attached to a bracer and glove (A character proficient gains a -1 AC bonus)
This attack causes only 1d4/1d3 damage, but has a knockdown of d10.=20
>
>If anybody would like to know the statistics for the Talon-Style, just say=
 so.
>
This reminds me of the toratsume weapon in Rage of the Rakasta, one of the
Thunder Rift modules.
I'd like to see it.  By the way, are you the person who posted all those
neat martial art styles last year?  This reminded me of them.

 /=AF=AF|=AF=AF\    /=AF\/=AF\    /=AF=AF=AF=AF\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/    =20
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net


------------------------------

From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:17:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mystara] projects and keeping Mystara alive

>>I just thought it would be helpful to comment, but I probably can't
>>contribute much as I'm going to devote my creativity to MOrient.  It=
 sounds
>>great that other projects are being discussed, and I hope a good amount of
>>people will work on it.  I'm just not sure if that will happen since a=
 good
>>number of the members are already working on MOrient.  However, it's not a
>>large percentage of the list, the purpose of which is keeping Mystara=
 alive,
>>so I guess a lot of people will jump at the chance to participate in any
>>project (major hint to "lurkers").
>>
>Hmmm...I am that type of lurker...what i could do to help? And besides
>MOrient (which i do not extensevely know)there are any other projects
currently?
>
A good thing to read is, in the archives on the list's website, there is a
posting that Leroy wrote when the list began, about what the purpose of it
is.  (which I *really* think should be in the FAQ.)  It tells about all
kinds of projects we could do.  By the way, could someone send me a copy of
that information if they have it, I have problems accesing the page.  Aside
from posting stuff you make up yourself, I suggest working on projects with
other list members if you're interested, or starting your own. There are
plenty of undeveloped areas, and for detailed areas there are places,
adventures and many other things that can be made.  Just be creative! :)

As for projects other than MOrient and the 1013 almanac, I have no idea, but
I have a feeling that there are others.  Is it just me, or does it seem like
often, people don't communicate well enough that there is a project that is
or can be collaborative?

By the way, the reason you don't extensively know about MOrient is because
it's not really made up yet.  It's an original creation by many list
members, dealing with parts of Skothar, an undeveloped area of Mystara.
We're doing Chinese and Japanese sorts of cultures, probably an Indian one,
and of course others, as we get going.  If you might be interested in
participating, email Jody Duncan, who is our main coordinator,  at
jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca as fast as you can!  The next compilation of our
ideas and plans is scheduled to be sent out soon, and there might not be a
chance to join in after that.


 /=AF=AF|=AF=AF\    /=AF\/=AF\    /=AF=AF=AF=AF\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/    =20
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net


------------------------------

From: TSRBruce@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:38:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

In a message dated 97-01-09 19:59:35 EST, Brant wrote:

<< Besides, Mystaros writes better than 95% of the TSR staffers, and his
stuff is FREE! >>

Out of curiosity, how did you come up to the *95%* total? Are you sure that
wasn't 94% or perhaps 93.5? I feel sorry for the TSR designer whose body
happens to fall somewhere around the 95th percent. Must be painful. Now of
course, if we had 100 designers then there wouldn't be a problem. I guess
there's potential for growth here. Nevertheless -- three cheers for Mystaros.
I happen to enjoy his stuff!  :)

Bruce Heard
(being deliberately obtuse)



------------------------------

From: Leroy Van Camp III <van891@uidaho.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 06:09:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mystara] Here Ya' Go, Dave (was projects)

On Thu, 9 Jan 1997, David Melik wrote:

> A good thing to read is, in the archives on the list's website, there is a
> posting that Leroy wrote when the list began, about what the purpose of it
> is.  (which I *really* think should be in the FAQ.)  It tells about all
> kinds of projects we could do.  By the way, could someone send me a copy of
> that information if they have it, I have problems accesing the page.

    Below is that post David was referring to, which I dug up out of the
first digest.
    BTW Dave, what kind of prblems are you having accessing the page?


 The following is a list of projects that the Mailing List might work
on together.  It's certainly not complete, nor are all the ideas of equal
value.  Feedback is both welcome and desired.
    If we can gather enough material, we can start putting out netbooks.

The Mystara FAQ
    This shouldn't hard (hopefully).  Whenever someone comes up with a
good question, we'll add it.  I will probably start work on this before
too long. 

Mystara Index
    The Known World is spread through out a large number of supplements,
making it difficult at times to know if you have all available information
at hand. 
    A good solution would be complete indexes of every Mystara product out
their. 
    Now, if this was done by one person, it would be a monumental task. 
But, if each person on the list took one product and indexed it, the work
load would be spread out.  These individual indices could then be
compiled. 

Alternate Ierendis
    Am I the only one who though the Ierendi Gazetteer to be a cruel, and
unfunny, joke?  If I am, then this project has no merit.  But if others
out there have come up with their own versions of this country, it would
be nice to see them in print.  I will be submitting mine to the list,
eventually. 

New Gazetteers
    Wouldn't it be nice to have Gazetteers on some of the countries that
TSR gave us little detail of?  The two that spring to mind are Wendar and
Heldann Freeholds. 
    Writing complete Gazetteers would be no small feat, but it could be a
group project. 

Mystaraspace
    I don't know how many people on the list are also Spelljammer fans (I
recognized two names from the SJML), but for those that are, working up a
crystal sphere for Mystara would be cool.  It would take a bit of
explanation on how things like the Alphatian migration, or the crashed
ship in Blackmoor, tied in. 

Tourist Guides
    For those not familiar with them, TSR puts out supplements for
Forgotten Realms called the Volo's Guide series.  Each is a book dedicated
to the sites and locales in a certain city or area of the Realms, such as
taverns, inns, stores, ruins, and castles. 
    I feel such information for Mystara would be of great help to a GM. 
It wouldn't be that hard, either.  Each person could claim one city or
town and detail such establishments.  They could then be grouped according
to country, giving the Tourist's Guide to Karameikos, and so on. 

Rumors and Adventure Seeds
    A simple project that could be ongoing, this would just be a
compilation of adventure ideas that people post.  This would be especially
easy for those who are currently running a campaign in Mystara.  They
could just post the occasional plot summary. 

New Races
    Any one who has perused the pages of the Creature Catalog or the
Mystara Monstrous Compendium can probably find at least a dozen races that
would be suitable for PC's.  For example, the rakasta is a standard race
in my own campaigns (although different than the way they are presented in
the Princess Ark series.)
    Whether in AD&D or D&D format, such new races would be nice.

Specialty Priests of the Immortals
    For those who play in Mystara using AD&D, having the information on
specialtiy priests would be damn handy.  I have made up a few myself, and
will submit them. 

Standard Stuff (Spells, Kits, Monsters, Magic Items, NPC's, etc)
    Such things are always welcome on the list.  Whether they were put
into the netbook would depend on how closely tied to Mystara they were. 


                          Leroy Van Camp III
          owner-mystara-l@io.com         van891@uidaho.edu
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                 MST3K




------------------------------

From: Mischa E Gelman <megst19+@pitt.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:22:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Here Ya' Go, Dave (was projects)

On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, Leroy Van Camp III wrote:

>     The Known World is spread through out a large number of supplements,
> making it difficult at times to know if you have all available information
> at hand. 
>     A good solution would be complete indexes of every Mystara product out
> their. 

Just wondering, but didn't Daniel Boese already make such an index.  I am
pretty sure I saw it posted once before and I think I still might have a
copy in one of my old saved-mail folders in case anyone wants it.

> Specialty Priests of the Immortals
>     For those who play in Mystara using AD&D, having the information on
> specialtiy priests would be damn handy.  I have made up a few myself, and
> will submit them. 

I was pretty sure that Bruce Pierpont finished his long string of these
posts.  I know some of the Mystara web sites have a bunch of the old ones
handy, for those who were not on the list back then.


If both of these are done, we could strike them from the initial project
list so that no newcomers will try to work on them when they have already
been well-developed.  Although, if some one wants to offer alternatives
specialty priest posts, I doubt anyone would mind.



Ted Striker has more guts in his little finger than most of us have in our
intestines..including the colon -McCroskey (Lloyd Bridges)


------------------------------

From: Mischa E Gelman <megst19+@pitt.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:11:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] projects and keeping Mystara alive

> As for projects other than MOrient and the 1013 almanac, I have no idea, but
> I have a feeling that there are others.  Is it just me, or does it seem like
> often, people don't communicate well enough that there is a project that is
> or can be collaborative?

I think the problem is that many of us have our own interests which others
wouldn't be so so enthusiastic about.  I, for example, am very interested
in expanding on the Hollow World cultures listed in the boxed set but not
given their own individual books-peoples like the Tanagoro or Kogolor who
would have their own distinct culture, art, entertainment, government but
whom we are not given much detail about.  I asked a long time back if
anyone else was interested in developing the Kogolor peoples and didn't
get any responses, if I recall correctly.  So I have decided to work on it
when(IF) I ever get free time.  I know others have also gone off and done
their own individual projects, which they have already posted about such
as Cthuludrew(sp?)'s work on several undeveloped immortals like Forsetta.
Anyways, I suggest that if you have an idea, post some information about
it.  If people wish to help, they will offer their help.  Otherwise, work
on it yourself and then let us see what you have done and see if the list
as a whole can help out and make suggestions.  Back to lurking now -Mischa




Ted Striker has more guts in his little finger than most of us have in our
intestines..including the colon -McCroskey (Lloyd Bridges)


------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #315
*****************************


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mystara-digest           Saturday, 11 January 1997     Volume 01 : Number 316


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: BerSchu@sagor.prima.ruhr.de (Bernhard Schumacher)
Date: 09 Jan 1997 22:21:00 +0200
Subject: [Mystara] GRASS AND SQL

[ Message 9701091641.AA0070@CDD969.agric.gov.ab.ca ]
[ dated 09.01.97 *forwarded* ]
[ originally lgfax@sagor.prima.ruhr.de ]
[ from CDD969@CDD969.agric.gov.ab.ca  ]

lgfax@sagor.prima.ruhr.de (Bernhard Schumacher) writes:
>[ Message 6NqNDDtQ49B@sagor.prima.ruhr.de ]
>[ dated 30.12.96 *forwarded* ]
>[ originally info.grass.user ]
>[ from BerSchu@sagor.prima.ruhr.de (Bernhard Schumacher)  ]
>
>Hi grass-users,
>
>I'm looking for an SQL-GRASS Interface. Is there any Free/Share or  
>Payware?
>
>Thanks a lot
>Bernhard
>-- 
>
There are interfaces to ingres, and also to an older version of a
brand new dbase (again from Berkeley) called postgres.

Gordon Haverland
Precision Farming Project
Alberta Agriculture
ghaverla@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
goddard@gpu.ualberta.ca

## CrossPoint v3.11 ##

------------------------------

From: nbamba@juno.com (Nicholas C Bambakidis)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:32:21 EST
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

Putting complete Mystara stuff onle would be AWESOME

On Thu, 09 Jan 1997 16:50:41 GMT rolfs@netway.at (Rolf Schoefnagel)
writes:
>=46YI:
>
>I am posting you what I got from TSR on Mystara online. Seems like 
>they
>don=B4t want us to try and make something big again that they can=B4t 
>=
>make any
>money with anymore, but rather sit on it (WE GOT THE COPYRIGHT, IT=B4S 
>=
>MINE,
>IT=B4S ALL MINE) and make shure everybody has to buy stuff from lines 
>=
>that are
>still on sale. I=B4m not shure if any of us can do anything about it, 
>but=
> I=B4ll
>follow up and see what I can do.
>
>Just, please, everybody who=B4d like to see Mystara as complete as =
>possible
>ONLINE, reply to me via email so that I know if there=B4s interest for
>=
>it.
>
>>To: rolfs@netway.at
>>From: TSRInc@aol.com
>>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:09:54 -0500 (EST)
>>
>>In a message dated 1/9/97 4:52:18 AM, you wrote:
>>>>>     2. the chance to put our stuff to the upload area on =
>www.tsrinc.com
>>>>
>>>>We will definitely have this.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I am talking TSR copywrited material.
>>
>>That's not what you said - you said "our stuff," which I took to mean
>>"stuff that we (online Mystara fans) have created."  Copyrighted=20
>>TSR-published Mystara stuff is _TSR's_ stuff.
>>
>>There are no plans to put any Mystara stuff online right now, but 
>then =
>again
>>the last time I went hunting for product was eight months ago.  
>Things
>>change, and things can be added to the list.
>>
>>--=20
>>Sean Reynolds, TSR Online Coordinator
>>TSRinc@aol.com | AOL: keyword TSR | http://www.tsrinc.com
>>1997 Gen Con prereg forms are at the sites above.
>
><_<  Rolf Schoefnagel >_>
><_< E-Mail: rolfs@netway.at >_>
><_< "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way." 
>>_>
>

------------------------------

From: Victor Caminha <wykthor@esquadro.com.br>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:33:31 -0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Here Ya' Go, Dave (was projects)

>
>Alternate Ierendis
>    Am I the only one who though the Ierendi Gazetteer to be a cruel, and
>unfunny, joke?I  will be submitting mine to the list,
>eventually. 

Hmm Could you give a hint how is your Ierendi Project?

>New Gazetteers
>    Wouldn't it be nice to have Gazetteers on some of the countries that
>TSR gave us little detail of?  The two that spring to mind are Wendar and
>Heldann Freeholds. 
>    Writing complete Gazetteers would be no small feat, but it could be a
>group project. 

Thats a Nice idea!What about Norworld? i know many things were detailed in
the M modules and in the Test of warlords, but, it could be interesting.
Unfortunately i do not have (though i played) the saga of the shadowlord  to
make a big contribution to Wendar. I am also wanting some info about
MOrient, just in case to avoid a mess sending material to a region already
developed..
>
>Rumors and Adventure Seeds
>    A simple project that could be ongoing, this would just be a
>compilation of adventure ideas that people post.  This would be especially
>easy for those who are currently running a campaign in Mystara.  They
>could just post the occasional plot summary.

I think i could give a help. I still have to look the Joshua almanac, but in
camapaign, the Elven exile was a golden oportuity to play and stabilish a
new Elven Kingdom in the Cm2 The tree of Life
 
>
>New Races

Though obviously they were NOT meant for characters, i would love tyo detail
more about the Carnifex...Other races also come to mind  too, though i am not
planning directly to  create character classes (D&d way of speaking) for
then, more interested in creating background.
>

>Standard Stuff (Spells, Kits, Monsters, Magic Items, NPC's, etc)
>    Such things are always welcome on the list.  Whether they were put
>into the netbook would depend on how closely tied to Mystara they were. 
>
No prob!i will try to send material when my mess of life will be a little
better ;)

[]s

Victor Caminha

"Receive the bounty of your hero's deed
 Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead
 Eternally running from a priestly bead
 Unable to bear the Orb in your head

 You'll walk in the darkness so alluring
 Without Hope to cleanse your sin
 Away from the joy of the living
 Forever to serve your Twin"


------------------------------

From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:16:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Here Ya' Go, Dave (was projects)

> >     The Known World is spread through out a large number of supplements,
> > making it difficult at times to know if you have all available information
> > at hand. 
> >     A good solution would be complete indexes of every Mystara product out
> > their. 

> Just wondering, but didn't Daniel Boese already make such an index.  I am
> pretty sure I saw it posted once before and I think I still might have a
> copy in one of my old saved-mail folders in case anyone wants it.

 I didn't actually /make/ it, but I have what I believe is a complete list
of Mystara (and other oD&D) products. I posted it at least once, and I've
seen copies on somebody's web page.
 There are two things missing from my list. 1) Which issues of which
magazines (such as Dungeon, Dragon, and Polyhedron) contain 
Mystara-related information. 2) Mystara references in other lines and
products; such as Chronomancer, Planescape: Faces of Sigil, and the
Monstrous Arcana book about beholders.
 I recall somebody [I'm sorry, I /still/ don't remember your name] posting
a list of Dungeons and Polyhedrons with Mystara. I have a nearly-complete
list of Dragons, save that I don't know if anything was in issues 195 and
198 - I would appreciate it if somebody with those could let me know if
the "Known World Grimoire", or other Mystara articles, were in them.

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca


------------------------------

From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:31:31 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mystara] An interesting paradox

A random thought occurred to me the other night, and I thought I'd share 
it with the rest of you.

In WotI, it is mentioned that Khoronus was one of the founders of 
Blackmoor in his mortal life. I've always wondered who it could be (my 
guess is Garamond Bolitho, the Bishop of Blackmoor, from DA1), but I took 
that thought even further the other night.

We all know that without the intervention of heroes from the future, 
Blackmoor would not have survived as a Kingdom and the history of the 
world would be much different from what we know.

What if Khoronus had somehow been responsible for sending them back in 
time? Either by building the time portal in the Comeback Inn/Inn Between 
the Worlds, or just by arranging for the heroes to arrive there? We 
already know that he sponsored himself to Immortality, why couldn't he 
have insured his own existence and his eventual quest for Immortality by 
sending future heroes into the past to help the Kingdom of Blackmoor to 
attain the notoriety that it would one day achieve?

Interesting speculation, anyway, IMO. :)

------------------------------

From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:15:54 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Here Ya' Go, Dave (was projects)

On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, Mischa E Gelman wrote:

> > Specialty Priests of the Immortals
> >     For those who play in Mystara using AD&D, having the information on
> > specialtiy priests would be damn handy.  I have made up a few myself, and
> > will submit them. 
> 
> I was pretty sure that Bruce Pierpont finished his long string of these
> posts.  I know some of the Mystara web sites have a bunch of the old ones
> handy, for those who were not on the list back then.

Not so. There are still any number of other 'lesser' Immortals who 
haven't been described in terms of Specialty Priests, not to mention one 
or two Immortals described in modules, who are not mentioned anywhere 
else (Gylgarid of X13 and Iyx of X11 come to mind).

Plus there is still any amount of work to be done on the definitive 
Immortal Catalog (for want of a better name), wherein we have been 
attempting to list the important dates of the Immortals (and I don't mean 
who's going out with whom...) such as their 'birth date' (when they 
became Immortal), as well as possible guesses, etc. on their formal 
mortal identities, in order to try and link them more closely with the 
world of Mystara.


------------------------------

From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:23:33 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] projects and keeping Mystara alive

On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, Mischa E Gelman wrote:

> I think the problem is that many of us have our own interests which others
> wouldn't be so so enthusiastic about.  

I'm sure that this is the case, but it never does hurt to ask. Even if 
you don't get any responses, go ahead and post what you've come up with 
anyway. Sometimes it takes a bit of prodding to get others to offer some 
input. I know that there have been a few things that have come up that I 
wasn't initially interested in, but have offered suggestions on when they 
have come up on the list.

> I asked a long time back if anyone else was interested in developing 
> the Kogolor peoples and didn't get any responses, if I recall 
> correctly.  So I have decided to work on it when(IF) I ever get free 
> time.  

I must have missed this posting of yours, but if you're still interested, 
I'd be more than happy to try and give you some assistance with the 
Kogolor dwarves, as they are the original dwarvish race and thus 
correspond with my personal interests in the area of Blackmoor. I have 
already done a bit of work with them, inasmuch as I've been working on 
trying to update, clarify, etc. the Blackmoor time period given in the DA 
series and make it mesh with the timeline as described in the GAZ series.

> Anyways, I suggest that if you have an idea, post some information about
> it.  If people wish to help, they will offer their help.  Otherwise, work
> on it yourself and then let us see what you have done and see if the list
> as a whole can help out and make suggestions.  Back to lurking now -Mischa

This is a good reason to read the entire posting before you respond. :p

If I had read this far down, I wouldn't have felt the need to post my own 
echo of these sentiments earlier. 

At any rate, let me know if you'd like me to help out with the Kogolor 
dwarves any. :)

------------------------------

From: Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@PostOffice.WorldNet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:02:01 +0000
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

>In a message dated 97-01-09 00:18:32 EST, Aaron Reif wrote:
>>if TSR wants to make a little money on this venture, they could even
>>copy all this stuff onto CD-ROMs and sell them for like $10 for a CD full of
>>old games.  That's what older [computer/video] games do all the time, and
>>even though they don't make much money at it, the cost of copying to a CD is
>>minimal if the "product" is already written.  I find that it works very well
>>with software, since I often don't want to spend $50 on a game.  I can wait
>>a few years to have the company release just the software (most of the
>>manuals and "extras" are not included) for $10-15.  I've bought many games
>>this way, and I think it would be a good way for TSR to make a little money
>>on something that they've already invested in.  This makes even more sense
>>if people are already going to "digitize" the books anyway, for use online.
>>I, for one, would spend the $10 for the CD so that I wouldn't have to spend
>>hours online trying to download the files.  Anybody else like this idea?
>>Anybody from TSR paying attention???
>
>
>Um, yes. Some of us are, even if we remain silent for the most part. Thanks
>for the ideas. I'll see what I can do about this one.  :)
>
>Bruce Heard

I think something like this would be absolutely wonderful!  Hey, I'd be
willing to bet
that there are plenty of people out there willing to spend the money to make
this worth 
TSR's effort.  I, and probably many others, would be perfectly willing to
even volunteer
the time to scan or type many old modules for this, if TSR simply gave us
the go-ahead.
This is the first really viable way that I've seen suggested that TSR could
make money 
off their old Mystara products without having to risk mush of anything.  We
would really appreciate your support of this, Bruce!


------------------------------

From: Joe Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:10:00 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Here Ya' Go, Dave (was projects)

>>New Gazetteers
>>    Wouldn't it be nice to have Gazetteers on some of the countries that
>>TSR gave us little detail of?  The two that spring to mind are Wendar and
>>Heldann Freeholds. 
>>    Writing complete Gazetteers would be no small feat, but it could be a
>>group project. 
>
>Thats a Nice idea!What about Norworld? i know many things were detailed in
>the M modules and in the Test of warlords, but, it could be interesting.
>Unfortunately i do not have (though i played) the saga of the shadowlord  to
>make a big contribution to Wendar. I am also wanting some info about
>MOrient, just in case to avoid a mess sending material to a region already
>developed..

        What kind of info did you want to have on MOrient?
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive"
        Joe Duncan, Computer Science, Carleton University
        jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
        cq793@freenet.carleton.ca

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@PostOffice.WorldNet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 05:28:01 +0000
Subject: [Mystara] Succession in Nouvelle Averoigne

Last night, one of my players asked a good question about Catharine
d'Ambreville:  
Why didn't she become Princess of Nouvelle Averoigne upon Etienne's death?
After
all, they were still legally married, so it would seem that she had more
claim to
the throne than did Isidore.  I had never thought about this before, so I simply
said that Catharine declined the throne, having no real interest in it.  But I
was wondering what the explanation for this really is.  Can anybody help me?
Patrick

------------------------------

From: rolfs@netway.at (Rolf Schoefnagel)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 07:38:10 GMT
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Here Ya' Go, Dave (was projects)

On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:10:00 -0500, you wrote:

>        What kind of info did you want to have on MOrient?

Basically, all.

Where is it located
How much detail is already made
Web pages that already carry what you did
.......

If it=B4s just too much, just please give me an overview on the project.

THX
<_<  Rolf Schoefnagel >_>
<_< E-Mail: rolfs@netway.at >_>
<_< "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way." >_>

------------------------------

From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 03:02:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Succession in Nouvelle Averoigne

In a message dated 97-01-11 02:28:13 EST,
Dennis.Sullivan.Family@PostOffice.WorldNet.att.net (Patrick) writes:

<< Last night, one of my players asked a good question about Catharine
 d'Ambreville:  
 Why didn't she become Princess of Nouvelle Averoigne upon Etienne's death?
>>

IIRC, she was ambassador to Thyatis, and probably was still serving in that 
position when Etienne disappeared.  Most likely the rest of the family
preferred
to grab for the position themselves rather than invite her back home to take
over as the rightful heir.  Given the way Isidore and Henri contended for the
position, it was probably a smart move on her part to stay out of the way.

Alternatively, she may have thought Henri still loved her and was waiting for
his
position to become secure before returning home and becoming his bride.  Or,
she might have doubted his competence and waited to see whether he survived
before coming back.  After all, if he proved as clumsy this time around as he
was before, it would be best not to be anywhere near him when he went down
this time.


------------------------------

From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:36:57 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Drow on Mystara? (I dont mean S. Elves)

At 01.13 26/12/96 -0800, you wrote:
>Ok, we all know that Shadow Elves are NOT drow. In fact i didnt think
>there was any drow on Mystara until i picked up the Northern Reaches
>gazteer which states there sure are a few dark elves about. Is this the
>ONLY Mystaran refernce on drow on Mystara? It states the came from
>another plane. I've never seen any other Mystara book even mention them.
>It must be a very small population.
>
>
>Ashtar
>
Actually, they are not drows: they live in Schattenalfheim, and they are the
opposite of the high elves, wich have never appeared on Mystara. I think the
dark elves you're referring to are from the Norse mythology, and thus they
should be located in the Dymension of Myth, maybe in one of the outer planes
there (or if u want, in one of the Multiverse's Outer Planes), but IMHO they
should not be considered drow... rather a more powerful and more malicious lot

------------------------------

From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:45:29 +0100
Subject: [Mystara] Re: NPCs tales

At 13.23 27/12/96 -0200, you wrote:

>I have forgotten: Besides Lorde Toede, caN you imagine a Humanoid more
>famous than Thar?

well, i definitely think that Kol (aka Costantino Dioclezio) is now the most
famous humanoid in the Known World. But about humanoids, where the heck is
the high priest of Oenkmar gone (think the name was Xoteczuma or something
like that)? He was a semi-immortal fellow serving Atzanteotl and i don't
think the shadow elves were powerful enough to kill him...
 

>PS: as we are talking about Mystaran NPCs why we do not keep a discussion
>about them and the impact they caused in our campaigns?
>
Good point! I would certainly add something about this in the near future
and i am planning to introduce you some NPCs i've created to make the PCs
life veeery hard (just to mention 3 of them i derived from Japanese manga:
Kurt Schneider -Dark Schneider of Bastard!-; Byshon of Alphatia -Byson of
Street Fighter 2-; and Vexeta -Vegita of Dragonball Z-). If you're
interested, let me know !


------------------------------

From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:50:00 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] North & South Poles

At 17.35 29/12/96 +0500, you wrote:
>In several different books, the DA modules and GAZ5 off the top of my head,
>it mentions that several continents "became" the North and South poles after
>the Great Rain of Fire:  Blackmoor (where ever it is) became the North Pole
>and the old elven homeland became the South Pole.  These books were produced
>before the Hollow World concept was thought of, so when I read them, I was
>assuming that there was land (most likely covered with ice) at each of the
>poles.  Then came the Hollow world, with its hollow poles, so what happened
>to these continents?  All this talk about the current location of Blackmoor
>got me thinking about this, but since I haven't had to deal with this
>information in my campaigns, I haven't given it much thought.   Anybody have
>an explanation for where these continents went?  I guess you all are
>currently discussing where Blackmoor is, but how about the Elven continent?
>I believe that it was supposed to be located southwest of Davinia before the
>Rain of Fire (however, I don't have GAZ5 with me at the moment, so I might
>be wrong), so where did it move to?  On the Hollow World maps of the South
>Pole (again, this is from memory only), Davinia rings almost the entire
>southern "hole" (the southern entrance to the Hollow World).  There is
>nothing southwest of it.  Any theories?
>
>Aron Reif
>areif@vt.edu
>
Actually, the elven homeland of Evergrun is present day Vulcania, and the
southern pole opening contains what is left of the ancient Blacmoor-era
elvish civilization (on the HW side, of course), namely the Blacklore Valley.

------------------------------

From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:03:01 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac

At 12.17 06/01/97 +0400, you wrote:

>
>Maybe I'm Missing Something Here but, why the big deal about who the author
>of the Almanac is.  IMHO that was _the_ worst thing about Joshuan's=
 Almanac,
>the actual tying down of descriptions solely to a group of people.  The=
 idea
>works in the Gazetters and other products where you have lovely=
 descriptions
>by actual people but these were always followed by good old rules types
writing.
>I am not saying that a potential Red Steel Almanac shouldn't be written in=
 this
>way - I just want to know why?
>
>
>Shawn Stanley

I have to agree. The idea of writing a Poor Wizard's Almanac for Savage
COast is intriguing, but please not another Joushuan Almanac! I must admit
it had some funny and interesting parts (the ones about the most wanted was
innovative and the "How to recognize a villain" was superb) but the entire
approach to the world was not what i was expecting. I liked PWA with all its
statistics and numbers: they were really helpful, even though i must admit
that reading always the same entries is rather disappointing. So i suggest
this: the core of the almanac should be PWA style, with many references and
statistics, integrated by comments and recipes =E0 la Joushua... And=
 changing
constantly (even slightly) the entries for the people and countries every
year, to add what has changed during the last times.. That's the way i see
it, and i am willing to give my contribution in any possible way.


------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #316
*****************************


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mystara-digest           Saturday, 11 January 1997     Volume 01 : Number 317


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:56:55 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Here Ya' Go, Dave (was projects)

> I have a nearly-complete
>list of Dragons, save that I don't know if anything was in issues 195 and
>198 - I would appreciate it if somebody with those could let me know if
>the "Known World Grimoire", or other Mystara articles, were in them.

I didn=B4t find any Mystara-related articles neither in #195 nor in #198!


***************************************************************************
                                Peter Balazs
                          (a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at)
                     http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
***************************************************************************


------------------------------

From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:56:53 +0100
Subject: [Mystara] Unlimited Adventures

        Hi!

As I haven=B4t got any new computer games, I searched my old ones, and found
SSI=B4s Unlimited Adventures. I have also found an old module, a friend of
mine had programmed, and one I had started to build. I now have been playing
the module of my friend, and although the graphics, the whole program is
quite out-dated, I have enjoyed it.

So I now want to now, if anybody out there, has built any module for it,
best some Mystara-related one?

And maybe I will be crazy enough to finish my old module, which is situated
on Mystara. Would anybody be interested? The problem will probably be, that
ist is in german!


***************************************************************************
                                Peter Balazs
                          (a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at)
                     http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
***************************************************************************


------------------------------

From: Tarjeh <kstephan@online.no>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:20:57 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Okay (Almanac)

Victor...

I don't have any knowledge about this Morient myself....
Do you use the RED STEEL boxed set....
As far as i saw in "Joushuans Almanac", it was only a flesh-out of the =
Karameikos Boxed Set.

So... We base the Almanac around The RED STEEL and THE SAVAGE BARONIES =
boxed sets, and the TSR ONLINE PRODUCTS (Savage Coast CPS, Orc's Head =
Gazeteer and the SCMC).  We might want to include other things that we =
have made up ourselves, to create THE almanac.

OK?

Tarjeh

"All good=20
   soldiers fall in line=20
   when they march and shout
All good
   soldiers are a spectacle
   marching and singing
Will do anything the president says
Because the president believes in God
   Like all good soldiers should..."

------------------------------

From: Tarjeh <kstephan@online.no>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:29:21 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Okay

Victor...

I don't have any knowledge about this Morient myself....
Do you use the RED STEEL boxed set....
As far as i saw in "Joushuans Almanac", it was only a flesh-out of the =
Karameikos Boxed Set.

So... We base the Almanac around The RED STEEL and THE SAVAGE BARONIES =
boxed sets, and the TSR ONLINE PRODUCTS (Savage Coast CPS, Orc's Head =
Gazeteer and the SCMC).  We might want to include other things that we =
have made up ourselves, to create THE almanac.

OK?

Tarjeh

"All good=20
   soldiers fall in line=20
   when they march and shout
All good
   soldiers are a spectacle
   marching and singing
Will do anything the president says
Because the president believes in God
   Like all good soldiers should..."

------------------------------

From: Tarjeh <kstephan@online.no>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:26:03 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] Talon-Style Martial Arts

Talon Priest: The Kit

Introduction: In The RED STEEL boxed set, it stands that rakasta can =
only reach level 2 as a priest. I ignored this totally, and invented a =
order of fighting munks in Bellayne.
They are devoted to Belbion(Vanya), and are high-ranking in the =
government of Bellayne.

Classes: Priest
Races: Rakasta only. (Elves can be under special contitions, although, =
he MUST have 19 Dex).
Requirements: 12 Str, 13 Dex, 9 Wis.
Alignment: Any Good and Lawful Neutral.
Prime Requistite: Wisdom, Dexterity.
Special Benefits: The Talon Priest has Warrior THAC0, Constitution Bonus =
and Strenght Bonus. The Talon Priest gain 4 weapon and 4 =
nonweaponproficiencies at start.
The Talon priest has a hierachy of othger priest to suport himself.
Special Disadvantages: The Talon priest has no power over undead. The =
Priest lives in solibate and may never become intoxicated on purpose.
Weapons: The Talon priest may never fight with any other weapons than =
his beloved Long Claws or martial arts. At start he must devote three =
slots to the specialization in claws and 1 for his martial arts. Future =
wp's may only be used to gain further knowledge in martial arts.
Armor: The Priest use a ceremonial form of studded leather. (AC 7) The =
priest will never wear any other armor
than this. (They often enchant it, though!)
Spheres: Combat, Healing, War, All, Guardian, Protection.

THE TALON STYLE:
Type: Hard.
Unarmed Damage: Kick 1d4 real, 1d8 subdual, Punch 1 real 1d4 subdual.
Primary Method: Weapon.
AC Bonus: -1

Block: 1,2
Kick: 1,2,3
Movement: 1,2,4,5.
Throw: 1,2,3.
Weapon: 1
Talon: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7

Talon Style=20
1. Backhand Bash
The Backhand Bash is a solid blow with the steel plates on the claws. =
The damage is only 1d4+1, but if you roll under the damage x10, any =
mansized opponent is stunned for 1d6 rounds.=20

2. Double Dive
The Double dive is a straight piercing attack. The priest dives forward, =
rolling only once, but scoring double damage. The Dive requires a  =
little space, and ther priest gains the advantages and disadvantages of =
charging.

3. Talon Spin
The Talon spin comes as the priest enters the frenzy of battle. His =
attacks are double, but he suffer a -2 to his attack rolles and +1 to =
his AC. After a spin the priest requires rest.

4: Bloodrake
The Bloodrake is aimed at the blood vessels of the enemy. The attack is =
at -2, but if it hits, the enemy suffers 1d4 damage from blood loss each =
round thereafter until the bleeding is stopped.

5: Claw Hurl
In normal combat, if  a Priest scores a 18,19 or 20, he may choose to =
use a Hurl. He impales his opponents belly and throw him away. The enemy =
is thrown 2d6 yards, and loses an equal number of damage too.

6: Death Wheel:=20
Also called the "spinner", this attack is performed as the priest =
gathers inner energy to free himself from the power of gravity. He =
levitates in the air, starts to spin, and shoots towards his enemy, =
claws raking at an immense speed. The effect is: Use a Intution/Wisdom =
check,Range of flight: 10yds/lvl, Speed 10 to gather energy, roll 2d6 =
attack rolls at +1 damage. The only way to stop a Death wheel is by =
whacking the priest away in the exact moment, (-4 to attack roll), with =
a Size L or larger bludgeoning weapon, and roll 10 or more on the =
Knockdown Die. Any other attacks on the priest while in the death wheel =
causes only 1/3 of the normal damage because of the telekinetic force =
generated around the priest. After performing a Death Wheel, the priest =
can't cast spells and suffers a -3 to attack and damage for 10+1d10 =
rounds.

7: Wrath of the Tiger:
The Priest gather the energy of his ancestors to turn into a frenzied =
fighting-machine. He gains +2 to attack and damage rolls and his attacks =
are tripled. When in this frenzied state, he act like he has +6d8 =
hitpoints, which nullifies the first strikes of the enemy. He can fight =
till he has -15 hp, but then he collapses. This frenzied state lasts =
until there are no enemies left in sight. This power can only be invoked =
once per day, and after using it, the priest must rest for 3d6 full =
turns or suffer -4 to attacks and +3 to AC.

The Talon Priest's Code of Honor:

* Fear is acceptable - Cowardice is not
* Respect your enemy
* Do not attack the defenseless, the Weak or the innocent.
* Do not threathen the defenseless, the weak or the innocent to exert =
control over an enemy. (Do not take hostages)
* Do not involve yourself in the dishonorable actions of others.
* Any other, weak human weapon is not acceptable. You should rather use =
yourself as a weapon than tose primitive things.
* Mind Control is not acceptable and is not to be used.
* Obey those priests who have higher rank than you, respect those of =
lesser rank.
* Seek glory for our Mistress, not for ourselves.
* If you can't protect the defenseless, the innocent or the weak, let =
our mistress protect them after their deaths. (Bury those you find =
killed by your enemies, and give them a proper ceremony.
* Avenge those you failed to protect.
* Honor those you care for by remembering them, even after their deaths.
* Be tolerant of the beliefs of others.
* Spread the wisdom of Belbion by example, not by force.
* Do not become intoxicated by the vile poisons other ingest so =
foolishly (Do not drink alcohol ore use any type of drug).
* Keep all promises.
* Fullfill all duties.
* Repay all debts.

This code of honor looks much like the honorbounds's code.=20

Hope anyone can use this.

Tarjeh

------------------------------

From: Victor Caminha <wykthor@esquadro.com.br>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:25:08 -0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Here Ya' Go, Dave (was projects)

I am also wanting some info about
>>MOrient, just in case to avoid a mess sending material to a region already
>>developed..
>
>        What kind of info did you want to have on MOrient?

Well, it would be much to ask the genreal idea of the lands that it
encompass and its culture? Just to know what theme and where exactly the
MoRient is (Tamgor?Zyxl?)

"Receive the bounty of your hero's deed
 Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead
 Eternally running from a priestly bead
 Unable to bear the Orb in your head

 You'll walk in the darkness so alluring
 Without Hope to cleanse your sin
 Away from the joy of the living
 Forever to serve your Twin"


------------------------------

From: Leroy Van Camp III <van891@uidaho.edu>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:59:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mystara] Alternate Ierendi

On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, Victor Caminha wrote:

> >Alternate Ierendis
> >    Am I the only one who though the Ierendi Gazetteer to be a cruel, and
> >unfunny, joke?I  will be submitting mine to the list,
> >eventually. 
> 
> Hmm Could you give a hint how is your Ierendi Project?

    Sure.  My version of Ierendi was originally used as a prison.  It is
now a sovereign state, but still very rough and tumble.  There are a large
number of Necromancers on the island, most dedicated to Nyx.


                          Leroy Van Camp III
          owner-mystara-l@io.com         van891@uidaho.edu
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                 MST3K



------------------------------

From: Victor Caminha <wykthor@esquadro.com.br>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:25:10 -0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: NPCs tales

>>I have forgotten: Besides Lorde Toede, caN you imagine a Humanoid more
>>famous than Thar?
>
>well, i definitely think that Kol (aka Costantino Dioclezio) is now the most
>famous humanoid in the Known World

Well, currently yes, but i was talking about since now, who commanded the
attention of the players..

. But about humanoids, where the heck is
>the high priest of Oenkmar gone (think the name was Xoteczuma or something
>like that)? 

His name is Xilochtli


>Good point! I would certainly add something about this in the near future
>and i am planning to introduce you some NPCs i've created to make the PCs
>life veeery hard (just to mention 3 of them i derived from Japanese manga:
>Kurt Schneider -Dark Schneider of Bastard!-; Byshon of Alphatia -Byson of
>Street Fighter 2-; and Vexeta -Vegita of Dragonball Z-). If you're
>interested, let me know !

By the Way, i have already met with Xilochtli (and the DM was tremendoulsy
unfair at the encounter). However, i greatly enjoyesd the NPCs of  M5 Talons
of Night and M3 Twilight Calling.. Anyone here played these jewels?

"Receive the bounty of your hero's deed
 Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead
 Eternally running from a priestly bead
 Unable to bear the Orb in your head

 You'll walk in the darkness so alluring
 Without Hope to cleanse your sin
 Away from the joy of the living
 Forever to serve your Twin"


------------------------------

From: Leroy Van Camp III <van891@uidaho.edu>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:54:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN] The List Will be Down For A Bit...

- ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Date:          Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:13:15 -0600 (CST)
From:          Noah Lee - User Admin <juggler@io.com>
To:            list-owners@lists.io.com
Subject:       ANNOUNCEMENT: lists.io.com moving
Reply-to:      list-owners@lists.io.com

This Sunday, January 12, 1997, we're going to be shutting down the current
list machine to move the lists over to a newer, faster machine. Lists will
be shut off at 8am (14:00 UTC) and be back up by 12pm, as long as things
run
smoothly.

You'll want to let your lists know of this downtime.

Mail sent to lists during this time will be queued up, so there will be a
delay in the messages going out during this time. However, since we are
putting in a faster machine, the turnaround time on lists should be vastly
improved.


....................................................
:Noah Lee -  User Administrator - Illuminati Online:
....................................................
:juggler@io.com       :: http://www.io.com/~juggler:
:Majordomo-Owner      :: DJ & Texas Raves Owner    :
:"The Mac Guy"        :: Support Free Speech       :
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::





------------------------------

From: Leroy Van Camp III <van891@uidaho.edu>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:02:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Here Ya' Go, Dave (was projects)

On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, Mischa E Gelman wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, Leroy Van Camp III wrote:
> 
> >     The Known World is spread through out a large number of supplements,
> > making it difficult at times to know if you have all available information
> > at hand. 
> >     A good solution would be complete indexes of every Mystara product out
> > their. 
> 
> Just wondering, but didn't Daniel Boese already make such an index.  I am
> pretty sure I saw it posted once before and I think I still might have a
> copy in one of my old saved-mail folders in case anyone wants it.

    Not an index of all the products, but rather an index for each
product.  Once each index was finished, it could be added to the master
index.  Want to know as much as much info on a certain character or city?
Look in the master index and find all the references in all the Mystara
stuff.


                          Leroy Van Camp III
          owner-mystara-l@io.com         van891@uidaho.edu
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                 MST3K





------------------------------

From: TSRBruce@aol.com
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:56:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Duplicate messages

Sorry if I submitted the same posts more than once. I ran into some
difficulties during the past few days with my E-Mails. Please ignore the
duplicate posts. Thanks.

Bruce Heard


------------------------------

From: TSRBruce@aol.com
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:50:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

In a message dated 97-01-09 19:59:35 EST, Brant wrote:

<< Besides, Mystaros writes better than 95% of the TSR staffers, and his
stuff is FREE! >>

From ???@??? Tue Jan 14 09:55:13 1997
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Out of curiosity, how did you come up to the *95%* total? Are you sure that
wasn't 94% or perhaps 93.5? I feel sorry for the TSR designer whose body
happens to fall somewhere around the 95th percent. Must be painful. Now of
course, if we had 100 designers then there wouldn't be a problem. I guess
there's potential for growth here. Nevertheless -- three cheers for Mystaros.
I happen to enjoy his stuff!  :)

Bruce Heard
(being deliberately obtuse)



------------------------------

From: Victor Caminha <wykthor@esquadro.com.br>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:01:55 -0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alternate Ierendi and Doubts about trail map

>> Hmm Could you give a hint how is your Ierendi Project?
>
>    Sure.  My version of Ierendi was originally used as a prison.  It is
>now a sovereign state, but still very rough and tumble.  There are a large
>number of Necromancers on the island, most dedicated to Nyx.
>
>
Hmm...I always suspected about Nyx Post :)...If anyone here has the trail Map
i would like to know if there is any product of the TSR detailing about some
constructions made in the ocean, most notably Koom's Castle (south Minrothad
traders Ilse and BlackRock trench), and the City of Colhador, between Utter
Island of Ierendi and Traders Isle, in the far South of this ocean part.
Perhaps they are in the Gaz Minrotad guilds (one of the few that i do not
have...sob!). I looked at the CC The Sea People and it seemed that no
reference about it was made..

"Receive the bounty of your hero's deed
 Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead
 Eternally running from a priestly bead
 Unable to bear the Orb in your head

 You'll walk in the darkness so alluring
 Without Hope to cleanse your sin
 Away from the joy of the living
 Forever to serve your Twin"


------------------------------

From: Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@PostOffice.WorldNet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:22:50 +0000
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Succession in Nouvelle Averoigne

><< Last night, one of my players asked a good question about Catharine
> d'Ambreville:  
> Why didn't she become Princess of Nouvelle Averoigne upon Etienne's death?
>>>
>
>IIRC, she was ambassador to Thyatis, and probably was still serving in that 
>position when Etienne disappeared.  Most likely the rest of the family
>preferred
>to grab for the position themselves rather than invite her back home to take
>over as the rightful heir.  Given the way Isidore and Henri contended for the
>position, it was probably a smart move on her part to stay out of the way.

This all makes sense, but I was kind of curious whether Isidore and Henri
made any excuses, or if they just seized control and the Council didn't care.
>Alternatively, she may have thought Henri still loved her and was waiting for
>his
>position to become secure before returning home and becoming his bride.  Or,
>she might have doubted his competence and waited to see whether he survived
>before coming back.  After all, if he proved as clumsy this time around as he
>was before, it would be best not to be anywhere near him when he went down
>this time.

Mark of Amber says that Catharine HATES Henri by that time at least, and it
implies that she had already taken her new lover while Etienne was still
alive, so this seems rather less likely.  Thanks for the suggestion, though.
Patrick


------------------------------

From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:31:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Unlimited Adventures

In a message dated 97-01-11 12:09:31 EST, a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at (Peter
Balazs) writes:

<< So I now want to now, if anybody out there, has built any module for it,
 best some Mystara-related one?  >>


Yes!  Nobody has yet done much with Mystara, but there is a great deal of
material available on-line for Unlimited Adventures:

1) The mailing list:  Send e-mail to "frua-dev-request@andrew.cmu.edu" to
request being added to the list.  It is relatively low volume (compared to
the
Mystara list, for example), but it is a great place to keep up with the
latest
developments.

2) FTP sites:  All of the following contain UA modules, art, hacks, and other
info:

ftp.csua.berkeley.edu
ftp.cco.caltech.edu
eris.giga.or.at

3) Web pages:  A good starting point is John Rudy's Web page:

http://members.aol.com/pccjohnr

4) On-line services:  AOL has an extensive library devoted to UA -- keyword
is
"UA".

Also -- in case anyone is interested in creating a Mystara-based module, I 
am considering creating a set of hack files that will make UA handle
character
creation and development in a manner more consistent with the D&D Rules
Cyclopedia and the various Gazetteers.  Some parts of the hack would have
to be customized according to the settings of your module -- starting level,
initial equipment, and so forth.  E-mail me if you want help on such a
project.


------------------------------

From: David Keyser <davidk@Synopsys.COM>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:01:15 -0800
Subject: [Mystara] The Mother of all Mystara Indexes

> >     The Known World is spread through out a large number of supplements,
> > making it difficult at times to know if you have all available information
> > at hand. 
> >     A good solution would be complete indexes of every Mystara product out
> > their. 

> Just wondering, but didn't Daniel Boese already make such an index.  I am
> pretty sure I saw it posted once before and I think I still might have a
> copy in one of my old saved-mail folders in case anyone wants it.

: I didn't actually /make/ it, but I have what I believe is a complete list
:of Mystara (and other oD&D) products. I posted it at least once, and I've
:seen copies on somebody's web page.
: I recall somebody [I'm sorry, I /still/ don't remember your name] posting
:a list of Dungeons and Polyhedrons with Mystara. I have a nearly-complete
:list of Dragons, save that I don't know if anything was in issues 195 and
:198 - I would appreciate it if somebody with those could let me know if
:the "Known World Grimoire", or other Mystara articles, were in them.

I was the one who sent you the list Dan, and I have included below the index
that I have compiled over the last few months.  If anyone sees any errors or
would like to have additional info added to the list.  I know that Net Resources
need to be updated, and their are probably additional AD&D products that have
some information related to Mystara.  

I have this in HTML format, but it is not currently on the Web.


Dave Keyser


This page includes all TSR D&D and AD&D products which use or mention Mystara.  It extends to other products,not necessarily produced by TSR, if they provide information on the campaign world of Mystara.  A few products have also been included which are compatible with Mystara.  So while novels, computer games, home-spun adventures and products from other companies are(or can be) included, products like minatures or the SpellFire! game are not included, as they have no additional information that cannot be found within the materials listed below.  

Definition of Terms

Explicit - The item is directly and explicitly placed in Mystara.  "Cannon" material.

Implicit - The item does not define where in Mystara it exists, but is linked to Mystara because it is part of the same series, or contains material which is only found in Mystara.

Compatible - The item is not set within Mystara, but is compatible with and easily placed in Mystara.  This includes almost
all published non-Mystara D&D material.

Suggested - The item is not quite compatible, but methods and suggestions are made so that the item can be placed in Mystara.

Mentioned - The item has very brief mention of Mystara, with information useful to Mystaran DMs.  For example, Planescape or Ravenloft products may include a character or setting from Mystara.

Unknown - At this time, I do not know if the product is related to Mystara or not.

Vaporware - The material was announced by TSR at some point in time, but in fact the project was never completed nor published.



The ACCESSORY Series

This series began before Mystara was recognized as a campaign world.  Some of
the products here were retroactively placed in Mystara.  AC6 is not included
because it only contained player character sheets, and there never was an AC8.


Code    Title                           Description                     Setting in Mystara
AC1     The Shady Dragon Inn            Campaign Source                 Implicit
AC2     Combat Shield                   Rules Supplement/Adventure      Explicit
AC3     The Kidnapping of Princess Arelina Adventure                    Implicit
AC4     Book of Marvelous Magic         Rules Supplement                Compatible
AC5     Revenge of Rusak                Adventure                       Implicit
AC7     Master Players Screen           Rules Supplement/Adventure      Implicit
AC9     Creature Catalog                Rules Supplement                Implicit
AC10    Bestiary of Dragons and Giants  Campaign Source                 Explicit
AC11    The Book of Wondrous Inventions Rules Supplement                Explicit


The ALMANAC Series

The almanacs documented Mystara in the years 1010-1013 AC.  Although much of the
information in the almanacs were reprinted material, they provided a timeline of
events for each year.

Code    Title                           Description                     Setting in Mystara
AC1010  Poor Wizards's Almanac          Campaign Source                 Explicit
AC1011  Poor Wizard's Almanac II        Campaign Source                 Explicit
AC1012  Poor Wizards's Almanac III      Campaign Source                 Explicit
        Joshuan's Almanac               Campaign Source                 Explicit



The BASIC Series

Code    Title                                   Description             Setting in Mystara
Yr 1981 Dungeones & Dragons Basic Set           Rules Supplement        Explicit
Yr 1983 Dungeones & Dragons Basic Rules Set 1   Rules Supplement        Explicit
B1      In Search of the Unknown                Adventure               Implicit
B2      The Keep on the Borderlands             Adventure               Implicit
B3      The Palace of the Silver Princess       Adventure               Implicit
B4      The Lost City                           Adventure               Explicit
B5      Horror on the Hill                      Adventure               Implicit
B6      The Veiled Society                      Adventure               Explicit
B7      Rahasia                                 Adventure               Implicit
B8      Journey to the Rock                     Adventure               Implicit
B9      Castle Caldwell and Beyond              Adventure               Implicit
B1-9    In Search of Adventure                  Adventure               Explicit
B10     Night's Dark Terror                     Adventure               Explicit
B11     King's Festival                         Adventure               Explicit
B12     Queen's Harvest                         Adventure               Explicit
BSOLO   Ghost of Lion Castle                    Adventure               Explicit


The BLACKMOOR Series

Code    Title                                   Description             Setting in Mystara
DA1     Adventures in Blackmoor                 Adventure               Explicit
DA2     Temple of the Frog                      Adventure               Explicit
DA3     City of the Gods                        Adventure               Explicit
DA4     The Duchy of Ten                        Adventure               Explicit
DA5     City of Blackmoor                       Adventure               Vaporware
JG      The First Fantasy Campaign              Campaign Source         Compatible



The CHALLENGER Series

Code    Title                           Description                     Setting in Mystara
        D&D Rules Cyclopedia            Rules Supplement                Explicit
DDA1    Arena of Thyatis                Adventure                       Explicit
DDA2    Legions of Thyatis              Adventure                       Explicit
DDA3    Eye of Traldar                  Adventure                       Explicit
DDA4    The Dymrak Dread                Adventure                       Explicit
DMR1    Dungeon Master Screen           Rules Supplement/Adventure      Explicit
DMR2    Creature Catalog                Rules Supplement                Implicit
        Wrath of the Immortals          Campaign Source                 Explicit
        Champions of Mystara            Campaign Source                 Explicit



The COMPANION Series

Code    Title                                           Description             Setting in Mystara
        Dungeones & Dragons Companion Rules Set 3       Rules Supplement        Explicit
CM1     Test of the Warlords                            Adventure               Explicit
CM2     Death's Ride                                    Adventure               Explicit
CM3     Sabre River                                     Adventure               Explicit
CM4     Earthshaker!                                    Adventure               Explicit
CM5     Mystery of the Snow Pearls                      Adventure               Implicit
CM6     Where Chaos Reigns                              Adventure               Implicit
CM7     The Tree of Life                                Adventure               Explicit
CM8     The Endless Stair                               Adventure               Explicit
CM9     Legacy of Blood                                 Adventure               Explicit


The CREATURE CRUCIBLE Series

Each of these products introduced a collection of monster races as player character races.

Code    Title                           Description             Setting in Mystara
PC1     Tall Tales of the Wee Folk      Campaign Source         Explicit
PC2     Top Ballista                    Campaign Source         Explicit
PC3     The Sea People                  Campaign Source         Explicit
PC4     Night Howlers                   Campaign Source         Explicit


The EXPERT Series

Code    Title                                   Description             Setting in Mystara
Yr 1981 Dungeones & Dragons Expert Set          Rules Supplement        Explicit
Yr 1983 Dungeones & Dragons Expert Rules Set 2  Rules Supplement        Explicit
X1      The Isle of Dread                       Adventure               Explicit
X2      Castle Amber(Chateau d'Amberville)      Adventure               Explicit
X3      Curse of Xanathon                       Adventure               Explicit
X4      Master of the Desert Nomads             Adventure               Explicit
X5      Temple of Death                         Adventure               Explicit
X6      Quagmire!                               Adventure               Explicit
X7      The War Rafts of Kron                   Adventure               Explicit
X8      Drums on Fire Mountain                  Adventure               Explicit
X9      The Savage Coast                        Adventure               Explicit
X10     Red Arrow, Black Shield                 Adventure               Explicit
X11     Saga of the Shadow Lord                 Adventure               Explicit
X12     Skarda's Mirror                         Adventure               Explicit
X13     Crown of Ancient Glory                  Adventure               Explicit
XL1     Quest for the Heartstone                Adventure               Implicit
XSOLO   Lathan's Gold                           Adventure               Explicit
XS2     Thunderdelve Mountain                   Adventure               Implicit


The FIRST QUEST Series

Title                                   Description             Setting in Mystara
Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure        Campaign Source         Explicit
Monstrous Compendium, Mystara Appendix  Rules Supplement        Explicit
Hail the Heroes                         Adventure               Explicit
Night of the Vampire                    Adventure               Explicit
Glantri: Kingdom of Magic               Campaign Source         Explicit
Mark of Amber                           Adventure               Explicit
Player's Survival Kit                   Campaign Source         Explicit
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Dungeon Master Survival Kit             Campaign Source         Explicit
The Mighty Argos                        Adventure               Vaporware
The Iron Ring                           Adventure               Vaporware


The GAZETEER Series

Code    Title                           Description             Setting in Mystara
GAZ1    Grand Duchy of Karameikos       Campaign Source         Explicit
GAZ2    Emirates of Ylaruam             Campaign Source         Explicit
GAZ3    Principalities of Glantri       Campaign Source         Explicit
GAZ4    Kingdom of Ierendi              Campaign Source         Explicit
GAZ5    Elves of Alfheim                Campaign Source         Explicit
GAZ6    Dwarves of Rockhome             Campaign Source         Explicit
GAZ7    The Northern Reaches            Campaign Source         Explicit
GAZ8    The Five Shires                 Campaign Source         Explicit
GAZ9    Minrothad Guilds                Campaign Source         Explicit
GAZ10   Orcs of Thar                    Campaign Source         Explicit
GAZ11   Republic of Darokin             Campaign Source         Explicit
GAZ12   Golden Khan of Ethengar         Campaign Source         Explicit
GAZ13   The Shadow Elves                Campaign Source         Explicit
GAZ14   Atruaghin Clans                 Campaign Source         Explicit
        Dawn of the Emperors            Campaign Source         Explicit



The HOLLOW WORLD Series

Code    Title                           Description             Setting in Mystara
        D&D Hollow World                Campaign Source         Explicit
HWA1    Nightwail                       Adventure               Explicit
HWA2    Nightrage                       Adventure               Explicit
HWA3    Nightstorm                      Adventure               Explicit
HWQ1    The Milenian Scepter            Adventure               Explicit
HWR1    Sons of Azca                    Campaign Source         Explicit
HWR2    Kingdom of Nithia               Campaign Source         Explicit
HWR3    Milenian Empire                 Campaign Source         Explicit



The IMMORTAL Series

Code    Title                                           Description             Setting in Mystara
        Dungeones & Dragons Immortal Rules Set 5        Rules Supplement        Explicit
IM1     The Immortal Storm                              Adventure               Implicit
IM2     The Wrath of Olympus                            Adventure               Explicit
IM3     The Best of Intentions                          Adventure               Explicit


InvRefThe INVISIBLE INK Series

Although these are meant to be played solo, additional text is provided for a
DM who wishes to take a group of players through the adventure.  As all 
invisible ink pens have dried out since these were printed, it may be difficult
to reveal all of the text.  In addition, it may be impossible to read these 
modules if they are in poor condition.

Code    Title                           Description             Setting in Mystara
M1      Blizzard Pass                   Adventure               Explicit
M2      Maze of the Riddling Minotaur   Adventure               Implicit



The MASTER Series

Code    Title                                   Description             Setting in Mystara
        Dungeones & Dragons Master Rules Set 4  Rules Supplement        Explicit
M1      Into the Maelstrom                      Adventure               Explicit
M2      Vengeance of Alphaks                    Adventure               Explicit
M3      Twilight Calling                        Adventure               Explicit
M4      Five Coins for a Kingdom                Adventure               Explicit
M5      Talons of Night                         Adventure               Explicit


The ODYSSEY Series

Title                                   Description             Setting in Mystara
Savage Coast Campaign Book              Campaign Source         Explicit
Monstrous Compendium, Savage Coast      Rules Supplement        Explicit
Orc's Head                              Campaign Source         Explicit


The ONE-ON-ONE Series

These adventures were written to be played between one player and one DM.

Code    Title                   Description             Setting in Mystara
O1      The Gem and the Staff   Adventure               Implicit
O2      Blade of Vengeance      Adventure               Explicit



The RED STEEL Series

Title                           Description                     Setting in Mystara
Red Steel Campaign              Campaign Source                 Explicit
Savage Baronies                 Campaign Source                 Explicit
Red Steel Campaign Themes       Unknown                         Vaporware



The TRAIL MAP Series

These trail maps are well-done, and provide several tables of traveller 
information on the D&D Known World.

Code    Title                   Description                     Setting in Mystara
TM1     The Western Countries   Campaign Source                 Explicit
TM2     The Eastern Countries   Campaign Source                 Explicit



DRAGON Magazine

At this time, Dragon magazines which contained Sage Advice that applied to the
D&D game are not completely included, though they may be included in the future.

Issue Number    Description             Setting in Mystara      Notes
41              Adventure               Compatible
50              Adventure               Compatible
92              Adventure               Compatible
109             Rules Supplement        Compatible              War Machine additions
118             Rules Supplement        Compatible              Neanderthal Character Class
148             Campaign Source         Explicit                Comments on Gazeteers
153             Campaign Source         Explicit                Eastern Jungle Coast/Pass of Cestia
154             Campaign Source         Explicit                Isle of Oceania
155             Campaign Source         Explicit                Isle of Cestia
156             Campaign Source         Explicit                Heldannic Knights
157             Campaign Source         Explicit                Vulture Peninsula
158             Campaign Source         Explicit                Dragon Rulers/Land of N'djatwa
160             Campaign Source         Explicit                Rakasta of Myoshima
161             Campaign Source         Explicit                Vulcania/Hollow World
162             Campaign Source         Explicit                Gnomes of Oostdok
163             Campaign Source         Explicit                Escape from Hollow World
164             Campaign Source         Explicit                Alphatia
165             Campaign Source         Explicit                Upper Thothia
166             Campaign Source         Explicit                Kingdom of Emerond
167             Campaign Source         Explicit                Plane of Sky Wyrms
168             Campaign Source         Explicit                Planet of Hakh
169             Campaign Source         Explicit                Sind/Jaibul
170             Campaign Source         Explicit                Dragon Society/Yavdlom
171             Campaign Source         Explicit                Dragon Kingdoms of Known World/Slagovich
172             Campaign Source         Explicit                Hule
173             Campaign Source         Explicit                Research on Hule
174             Campaign Source         Explicit                Barony of Vilaverde
175             Campaign Source         Explicit                Saragon
176             Campaign Source         Explicit                Smokestone City
177             Campaign Source         Explicit                Kingdom of Robrenn
178             Campaign Source         Explicit                Kingdom of Eusdria
179             Campaign Source         Explicit                Kingdom of Renardy
180             Campaign Source         Explicit                The Plane of Limbo
181             Campaign Source         Explicit                Kingdom of Bellayne
182             Campaign Source         Explicit                Questions and Answers
183             Campaign Source         Explicit                Kingdom of Herath
184             Campaign Source         Explicit                Questions and Answers
185             Campaign Source         Explicit                Squamous Kingdoms
186             Campaign Source         Explicit                Land of Wallara
187             Campaign Source         Explicit                Questions and Answers
188             Campaign Source         Explicit                Land of Jibaru/Nucleus of Spheres
189             Rules Supplement        Explicit                Q&A/Dominion Rules
190             Rules Supplement        Explicit                Q&A/Dominion Rules              
191             Rules Supplement        Explicit                Armies
192             Campaign Source         Explicit                Country of Nimmur
193             Rules Supplement        Explicit                Castles
194             Campaign Source         Explicit                Questions and Answers
196             Campaign Source         Explicit                Dark Jungle Orcs
197             Campaign Source         Explicit                Questions and Answers
199             Rules Supplement        Explicit                Heraldry/Gunpowder/Siege Weapons
200             Campaign Source         Explicit                Arm of the Immortals
206             Campaign Source         Explicit                Barony of Halag
207             Campaign Source         Explicit                Krakatos
216             Campaign Source         Explicit                Bargle the Infamous


DUNGEON Magazine

Issue Number    Description             Setting in Mystara
1               Adventure               Compatible
2               Adventure               Compatible
5               Adventure               Compatible
6               Adventure               Explicit
7               Adventure               Explicit
9               Adventure               Explicit
12              Adventure               Explicit
13              Adventure               Explicit
14              Adventure               Implicit
15              Adventure               Compatible
20              Adventure               Explicit
21              Adventure               Explicit
22              Adventure               Explicit
23              Adventure               Explicit
24              Adventure               Explicit
25              Adventure               Explicit
26              Adventure               Explicit
27              Adventure               Explicit
28              Adventure               Explicit
34              Adventure               Implicit
39              Adventure               Explicit
42              Adventure               Explicit
44              Adventure               Explicit
46              Adventure               Compatible
48              Adventure               Explicit
50              Adventure               Compatible
51              Adventure               Compatible
53              Adventure               Compatible
54              Adventure               Implicit
56              Adventure               Compatible
57              Adventure               Suggested
58              Adventure               Suggested
59              Adventure               Explicit
62              Adventure               Explicit



IMAGINE Magazine

Imagine is a magazine published in the United Kingdom by TSR Hobbiees (UK) Ltd.

Issue Number    Description             Setting in Mystara      Notes
6               Adventure               Compatible
12              Adventure               Compatible              Solo Adventure
19              Adventure               Compatible              Uses War Machine Rules


POLYHEDRON Newzine

Issue Number    Description             Setting in Mystara      Notes
15              Adventure               Implicit
16              Campaign Source         Implicit                Supplement to AC1
100             Campaign Source         Explicit                Documents of Known World 1010AC
120             Campaign Source         Explicit                Adapting Oriental Adventures to Myoshima


Mystara Novels

Title                           Series                  Setting in Mystara
The Tainted Sword               Penhalgion Trilogy      Explicit
The Dragon's Tomb               Penhalgion Trilogy      Explicit
The Fall of Magic               Penhalgion Trilogy      Explicit
Rogues to Riches                Young Quest             Explicit
Son of Dawn                     Young Quest             Explicit
Dragonlord of Mystara           Dragonlord Chronicles   Explicit
Dragonking of Mystara           Dragonlord Chronicles   Explicit
Dragonmage of Mystara           Dragonlord Chronicles   Explicit
Dark Knight of Karameikos                               Explicit
The Black Vessel                                        Explicit



Mystara Electronic Games

This includes computer/electronic games which provide new material about Mystara.  Note that the IBM PC compatible game is not included in this list, as it only contained information taken from the various Gazeteers.

Title                           Type of Game    Setting in Mystara      Notes
Warriors of the Eternal Sun     Sega Genesis    Explicit                Adventure in Hollow World
Tower of Doom                   Arcade Game     Explicit                Adventure in Darokin/Broken Lands
Shadow over Mystara             Arcade Game     Explicit                Adventure in Glantri/Aengmoor


Mystara Net Resources

Location        Filename        Description                     Setting in Mystara
ftp.mpgn.com    shad_elf.txt    AD&D update for Shadowelves     Explicit
ftp.mpgn.com    Unknown         Chronomancy and the Multiverse  Mentioned



Miscellaneous

Code    Title                                           Description             Setting in Mystara
        Dragon's Den Adventure Pack                     Adventure               Explicit
        Monster & Treasure Assortment, Set One          Adventure               Compatible
        Monster & Treasure Assortment, Set Two          Adventure               Compatible
        Monster & Treasure Assortment, Set Three        Adventure               Compatible
ST1     Up the Garden's Path                            Adventure               Unknown


Non-Mystara AD&D Products

Note that for the I series modules, the actual suggestion to place them in 
Mystara was in GAZ2.

Code    Title                           Description             Setting in Mystara
I3      Pharaoh                         Adventure               Suggested
I4      Oasis of the White Palm         Adventure               Suggested
I5      Lost Tomb of Martek             Adventure               Suggested
I9      Day of Al'Akbar                 Adventure               Suggested
        Battlesystem                    Rules Supplement        Compatible
        I, Tyrant                       Campaign Source         Mentioned
        Night Below                     Adventure               Suggested
        Uncaged: Faces of Sigil         Campaign Source         Mentioned


Clark Ashton Smith Stories

Book Title                      Short Stories                                                   Setting in Mystara
The Abominations of Yondo       The Enchantress of Sylaire                                      Compatible
Genius Loci                     The Colossus of Ylourgne/The Disinternment of Venus/The Satyr   Compatible
Lost Worlds                     The Beast of Averoigne/The Holiness of Azedarc                  Compatible
Other Dimensions                The Mandrakes                                                   Compatible
Out of Space & Time             The End of the Story/A Rendezvous in Averoigne                  Compatible
Tales of Science and Sorcery    The Maker of Gargoyles/Mother of Toads                          Compatible


------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #317
*****************************



mystara-digest        Tuesday, January 14 1997        Volume 01 : Number 318




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:37:37 +0000
From: Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@PostOffice.WorldNet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alternate Ierendi and Doubts about trail map

>Hmm...I always suspected about Nyx Post :)...If anyone here has the trail Map
>i would like to know if there is any product of the TSR detailing about some
>constructions made in the ocean, most notably Koom's Castle (south Minrothad
>traders Ilse and BlackRock trench), and the City of Colhador, between Utter
>Island of Ierendi and Traders Isle, in the far South of this ocean part.
>Perhaps they are in the Gaz Minrotad guilds (one of the few that i do not
>have...sob!). I looked at the CC The Sea People and it seemed that no
>reference about it was made..

Check PC3 again.  I didn't see much, but it shows the site of an underwater
battle in 989 called Koom's Fight.  On page 50 of "The Sea Peoples Book,"
under the heading "Ruins," it says that castle is inhabited by a sea giant
who didn't know better.
Patrick

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:09:19 +0500
From: Aron Reif <areif@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alternate Ierendi and Doubts about trail map

At 07:01 PM 1/11/97 -0200, you wrote:

>Hmm...I always suspected about Nyx Post :)...If anyone here has the trail Map
>i would like to know if there is any product of the TSR detailing about some
>constructions made in the ocean, most notably Koom's Castle (south Minrothad
>traders Ilse and BlackRock trench), and the City of Colhador, between Utter
>Island of Ierendi and Traders Isle, in the far South of this ocean part.
>Perhaps they are in the Gaz Minrotad guilds (one of the few that i do not
>have...sob!). I looked at the CC The Sea People and it seemed that no
>reference about it was made..
>

Koom's Castle and the City of Colhador (along with the City of Suthus) are
the primary locations involved in the module X7, War Rafts of Kron.  They
are also listed in PC3, The Sea People, but just briefly.  I'm not suprised
that you missed it, because it was pretty hard to find:  check page 50,
under "Ruins".  The information given in PC3 is different from that in X7.
For instance, in PC3, Suthus is listed as a city of Shark-kin, but in X7,
it's the city of Tritons.  This is significant, because it's one of the
major locations in the adventure.  In both books, Koom's Castle is the home
of Koom, a sea giant, who is an NPC in X7.
        Hope this helps.

Aron Reif
areif@vt.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:08:40 -0200
From: Victor Caminha <wykthor@esquadro.com.br>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alternate Ierendi and Doubts about trail map

>
>Check PC3 again.  I didn't see much, but it shows the site of an underwater
>battle in 989 called Koom's Fight.  On page 50 of "The Sea Peoples Book,"
>under the heading "Ruins," it says that castle is inhabited by a sea giant
>who didn't know better.
>Patrick
>
By the Neptune's beard!you're right!i have to kick myself for my short
sightfor a while..thanks :) 

"Receive the bounty of your hero's deed
 Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead
 Eternally running from a priestly bead
 Unable to bear the Orb in your head

 You'll walk in the darkness so alluring
 Without Hope to cleanse your sin
 Away from the joy of the living
 Forever to serve your Twin"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:23:56 +0100
From: Fabrizio Paoli <lu000122@lunet.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Almanacs

A few days ago I asked to Micheal Roy if he has finished putting together
all the stuff for his 1014 Almanac and also his opinion about making an
almanac for the Savage Coast.
This is his answer.
>
>        Actually, I've fallen somewhat behind in my almanac (as I'm sure
>you've noticed) :)   I've left the Savage Coast rather vague, writting down
>only various "rumors and unconfirmed reports" in the area for the past 5
>years.  The Editors make no claim to its veracity.  So whomever wants to
>make the SC timeline, I wish him the best of luck! :)  Have enough trouble
>making the KW and HW one fit together in one nice piece (the timeline is
>done, just the text and other info that is dragging me back... oh well.)
>
>                                               Michael Roy
>                                               mroy@cyberus.ca

**************
Fabrizio Paoli                  brizio@lunet.it            
DM in City Of The Stars 
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html 
                                        

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:43:16 +0100
From: dalmonte@pegasus.dsc.unibo.it
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: NPCs tales

>
>. But about humanoids, where the heck is
>>the high priest of Oenkmar gone (think the name was Xoteczuma or something
>>like that)? 
>
>His name is Xilochtli

Yeah, right, but my question still remains: where is he now????

>
>By the Way, i have already met with Xilochtli (and the DM was tremendoulsy
>unfair at the encounter). However, i greatly enjoyesd the NPCs of  M5 Talons
>of Night and M3 Twilight Calling.. Anyone here played these jewels?
>
And how did it go? Did u manage to kill him or defeat him?
About M5. i have succesfully played that module (well, my players have, i have DMed) and i agree: there are really nasty characters, above all Ramenhotep X (wow, a vampire mystic! One of my PCs was drained of 10 levels!!!) What about M3? Can u give me some details of its plot?giuditta

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:03:54 +0100
From: dalmonte@pegasus.dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] D&D Spells

Ok, i have had headaches because of my players and their use of spells, so here's four questions i would like to submit to you if u can find a decent answer:
1) is a Force Field breachable by an anti-magic ray (such as that of a beholder)? Even an Immortal one?
2) Is Immunity (9th level wizard spell) undispellable, since the wizard is unaffected by spells of the first 3 levels? And if the same wizard cast on himself another spell after Immunity, let's say Wizard Eye, is this last spell dispellable or the Immunity protects also the other spells cast on the mage?
3) What happens in a Delayed Fireball is manually thrown into someone's body? Did he merely explodes without any possibility of surviving or does he only loses his Saving Throw?
4) Who has designed the 9th level spell Shapechange? What has he drunk before writing it? Don't u also find it is a bit unbalancing for game's pourposes??? Any suggestions on how to limit it?

Thanx and hope to hear news about the MOrient Project.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:01:27 -0500 (EST)
From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Shapechange

>4) Who has designed the 9th level spell Shapechange? What has he drunk
before writing >it? Don't u also find it is a bit unbalancing for game's
pourposes??? Any suggestions on >how to limit it?

there arent many spell casters IMC that are able to harness 9th level spells
or shapechange for that matter
if you already have someone in the campaign with the spell you could limit it
by creating an NPC that has a good counter for the spell
but you can't really limit this spell
if you believe it is unbalancing to your campaign
just remove it
you can easily remove the spell from your campaign
a hired master thief stealing it
or the spellbook taking damage during a battle
there are countless ways to do this if you wish
a mage who is at least 18th level is going to influence any campaign
i dont see anything wrong with the spell
IMHO, its no more powerful than power word, kill
which can end many lives without a save
and its far weaker than wish
which can do almost anything imaginable
thats what these spells are created for
these are the most potent magical spells a mortal can harness

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:24:48 +0000
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Spells in Mystara et alii

Uh, well, i don't know if the message was actually sent, cause it was sent me back with the administrator telling that it was not delivered, so i'll try again (sorry if it is only a repetition).
Ok, i have had headaches because of my players and their use of spells, so
here's four questions i would like to submit to you if u can find a decent
answer:
1) is a Force Field breachable by an anti-magic ray (such as that of a
beholder)? Even an Immortal one?
2) Is Immunity (9th level wizard spell) undispellable, since the wizard is
unaffected by spells of the first 3 levels? And if the same wizard cast on
himself another spell after Immunity, let's say Wizard Eye, is this last spell
dispellable or the Immunity protects also the other spells cast on the mage?
3) What happens in a Delayed Fireball is manually thrown into someone's body?
Did he merely explodes without any possibility of surviving or does he only
loses his Saving Throw?
4) Who has designed the 9th level spell Shapechange? What has he drunk before
writing it? Don't u also find it is a bit unbalancing for game's pourposes???
Any suggestions on how to limit it?
NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW QUESTION QUESTION QUESTION QUESTION!!!
5) Why in the Gazetteers the people don't seem to improve and gain levels throughout the years? Only Sitara Rohini actually raised from Cleric of 1st to 2nd level in one(!!) year. Other strange things: Bargle (described as Wizard of 16th level in Karameikos gazetteer set in 1000 ac) actually gained 12 levels in 10 years (!!) whereas the ruling Baron von Hendriks remained at the same level (16), how can it be??? And the PX he should have received for his ruling (as Companion level states)?

Thanx and hope to hear news about the MOrient Project.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:16:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Mischa E Gelman <megst19+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Here Ya' Go, Dave (was projects)

> > I was pretty sure that Bruce Pierpont finished his long string of these
> > posts.  I know some of the Mystara web sites have a bunch of the old ones
> > handy, for those who were not on the list back then.
> 
> Not so. There are still any number of other 'lesser' Immortals who 
> haven't been described in terms of Specialty Priests, not to mention one 
> or two Immortals described in modules, who are not mentioned anywhere 
> else (Gylgarid of X13 and Iyx of X11 come to mind).

Sorry, I should have explained myself better..I was referring to the
immortals listed in HW and DoE and the other boxed sets, the ones who are
only in modules being less well-known.Also the 3 immortals of B4, though I
think these can be easily linked to other immortals, the woman to Vanya
and Gorm to Thor(though I prefer it being vice versa, borrowing less from
established mythologies).  I think someone suggested doing this with many
of the 1-shot immortals, those appearing in just one module, so as not to
create a world with too many immortals.  Though I for one would like to
see what people would do with some of these..the work done on Forsetta was
rather interesting. 

I remember someone was working on a list of all immortals of Mystara,
player-created as well.  Does anyone know what happened with this?

Ted Striker has more guts in his little finger than most of us have in our
intestines..including the colon -McCroskey (Lloyd Bridges)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:31:24 GMT
From: lysander@mstop.com (Lysander)
Subject: [Mystara] Any Mystarans in Brooklyn?

I recently checked the Mystara-l FAQ again and noticed that posting for
players in your area is allowed (BUT NOT TOO OFTEN!), so here I go: are
there any Mystara DM's in Brooklyn, NY?
I'd like to join a local game.  I'm in the Midwood/Gravesend section,
but I have a car so I would travel to just about any part of Brooklyn
(or perhaps even Manhattan, Queens, or Staten Island).

I'm also running a Mystara campaign (actually it's my long-running but
infrequently played original campaign which I placed in Mystara once I
got a couple of gazetteers) so if there are any players looking for a
game (on a very irregular basis) let
me know too.

BTW, I'm willing to share my Mystara stuff, I've got pretty much all of
it from discount sources or as gifts through the years.  I would love to
hear the sound effects on the First Quest CD if anyone around here has
it.
 
John Lysander
lysander@mstop.co

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jan 1997 03:53:00 +0200
From: BerSchu@sagor.prima.ruhr.de (Bernhard Schumacher)
Subject: [Mystara] TELES-TREIBER

[ Message 6Oj78m3$CkB@dialog.prima.ruhr.de ]
[ dated 12.01.97 *forwarded* ]
[ originally prima.support.isdn ]
[ from cm@dialog.prima.ruhr.de (Christian Mueller)  ]

Hallo Ralf!


> Der Treiber ist ca. 590 KB gross. Kann ich Dir in meiner BBS bzw. auf den
> FTP-Server laden. Muss dann nur der ftpadmin einordnen.
>
> Eine Datei ersetzten geht nicht.

Sei vorsichtig!

Nach aktuellem Stand der Dinge ist das Anbieten der TELES-CAPI-Treiber in  
Mailboxen und auf FTP-Servern untersagt. Die ersten Leute haben bereits  
Abmahnungen bekommen.

Wir diskutieren gerade, ob das fuer den Verein als eine juristische Person  
ebenfalls gilt. IMHO darf man die Treiber fuer interne Zwecke auf dem FTP- 
Server speichern, wenn ein Zugriff fuer Nicht-Mitglieder ausgeschlossen  
ist. Der Verein besitzt ja selbst einige TELES-Karten.

Eine Alternative waere die freie POWER-CAPI der Gerdes-AG. Das Ding soll  
Klasse sein und ist dazu noch FREEWARE und fuer alle moeglichen ISDN- 
Karten geeignet. Ausprobiert habe ich sie allerdings noch nicht.

Auch diese Version darf nur direkt vom Gerdes-Server gesaugt werden (892KB):

http://www.gerdes-ag.com/download/freier_download/pwrcapi.exe


Tschuessi

- - Christian -

## EdLin for Windows ##
## CrossPoint v3.11 ##

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:33:21 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Succession in Nouvelle Averoigne

On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, Patrick wrote:

> Why didn't she become Princess of Nouvelle Averoigne upon Etienne's death?
> After all, they were still legally married, so it would seem that she 
> had more claim to the throne than did Isidore.  I had never thought 
> about this before, so I simply said that Catharine declined the throne, 
> having no real interest in it.  But I was wondering what the 
> explanation for this really is.  Can anybody help me? > Patrick

Good question, and one I'm sure that got overlooked. Here's an idea that 
just occurred to me-

As is shown in X2: Castle Amber, Catherine and Henri were both the 
instruments responsible for Etienne's last overthrow, his being lost in 
time and space, and the disappearance of Castle Amber in 896 AC from Glantri.
Given this, I'd say that Etienne either Geased Catherine not to want to 
take the throne again (either alone or in concert with Henri), or else 
just made plans so that in the event of his being ousted, disappearing, 
or whatever, she would not be able to legitimately claim the throne in 
any case- some sort of motion passed at Parliament, or something, or 
maybe even just something as simple as saying, "She's not my legitimate 
heir."

How's that work?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:39:34 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: NPCs tales

On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it wrote:

> well, i definitely think that Kol (aka Costantino Dioclezio) is now the most
> famous humanoid in the Known World. But about humanoids, where the heck is
> the high priest of Oenkmar gone (think the name was Xoteczuma or something
> like that)? He was a semi-immortal fellow serving Atzanteotl and i don't
> think the shadow elves were powerful enough to kill him...

Xoteczuma is the Hobgoblin wokan who was in the service of the (now 
deceased) Lord Zotl. I posted a "Where are they now?" article to the list 
a while back wherein I proposed that she is currently aiding General 
Tlatepetl on the outer world.

As for Xilochtli, the high priest of Atzanteotl, I have no idea where he 
went. In PWA 1012, we learn that he has fled Oenkmar/Aengmor, taking the 
Blue Knife with him! Which, as I postulated, has angered the humanoid 
pantheon, and led Wogar to send his shaman, Hoolg Red-Mane, on another 
Great Migration to find Xilochtli and the Blue Knife. Where he is is 
anyone's guess, though. Personally, I've no ideas- maybe gone to Davania 
to where those jungle orcs live? Or else to the Savage Coast and the 
Yazak tribes or Jungle Orcs of the Orcs Head Peninsula? Who knows? 

Also, in the vein of famous Mystaran NPCs, I don't recall if anyone 
mentioned the most famous one of all- Haldemar of Haaken, and his trusty 
crew of the Princess Ark!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:46:04 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac

On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it wrote:

> I have to agree. The idea of writing a Poor Wizard's Almanac for Savage
> COast is intriguing, but please not another Joushuan Almanac!  

and

> I liked PWA with all its  statistics and numbers: they were really 
> helpful, even though i must admit that reading always the same entries 
> is rather disappointing. So i suggest this: the core of the almanac 
> should be PWA style, with many references and statistics, integrated by 
> comments and recipes à la Joushua... 

Add my agreement here. Of course, one of my most favorite parts was the 
one that was dropped immediately upon the switch to AD&D- the War Machine 
statistics for the various countries.

At any rate, I am very fond of the idea of retaining the original PWA 
style, and in fact have done a couple of writeups of areas that were not 
mentioned in any of the PWAs- among them, the Orclands of Darokin 
(updated for AC 1014), Faerdinal (I think thats the name), the Leprechaun 
kingdom- am currently trying to come up with something for Annwn, the 
underground fairy kingdom (for both of these, see PC1), as well as 
writeups for the various areas of pre-Great Rain of Fire Blackmoor. 

Of course, there are numerous areas to still be explored thus- the Kubitt 
kingdom and the Blacklore valley come to mind- and I for one would like 
to see some GeoPolitical writeups (as I call them) for these areas.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:55:07 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alternate Ierendi and Doubts about trail map

On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, Victor Caminha wrote:

> If anyone here has the trail Map i would like to know if there is any 
> product of the TSR detailing about some constructions made in the 
> ocean, most notably Koom's Castle (south Minrothad traders Ilse and 
> BlackRock trench), and the City of Colhador, between Utter Island of 
> Ierendi and Traders Isle, in the far South of this ocean part.

Actually, they are remnants of module X7: War Rafts of Kron. Koom is a 
Storm Giant who lives in a castle deep below the waves, Colhador is a 
ruined city (probably Taymoran- see PC3), haunted by undead. There is 
also another city, I don't recall the name offhand, south of these 
locations. In X7 it is a city of Tritons, but information in PC3 
contradicts this, and would seem to indicate that it is a Shark-kin city.

At any rate, this module could be easily adapted to the rules presented 
in PC3. There is a brief mention of both locations in the last section of 
PC3, wherein it gives a description of Undersea and its surroundings.

Another note- I'd think that Kron, Twaelar (the Merrow empire to the 
south of Undersea) and Undersea would all be suitable areas for a 
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GeoPolitical writeup, a la the PWAs, if anyone out there wants to take up 
the challenge? :)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 20:19:00 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Here Ya' Go, Dave (was projects)

On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Mischa E Gelman wrote:

> Also the 3 immortals of B4, though I think these can be easily linked 
> to other immortals, the woman to Vanya and Gorm to Thor(though I prefer 
> it being vice versa, borrowing less from established mythologies).  I 
> think someone suggested doing this with many of the 1-shot immortals, 
> those appearing in just one module, so as not to create a world with 
> too many immortals.  Though I for one would like to see what people 
> would do with some of these..the work done on Forsetta was
> rather interesting. 

Thank you! :) I've always been a big fan of his, probably because X3 was 
one of the very first modules I've ever played. Also, there is definitely 
more to add to Mr. Forsetta, as I recently got a copy of X13, Crown of 
Ancient Glory, and in it, he is shown to have a very large following 
indeed in the Kingdom of Vestland. Which is especially interesting if 
viewed in the light of X13 being a pre-1000 AC occurrence (as is 
indicated in, I believe, PWA 1010), though I'd probably set it later 
myself (as indicated in GAZ7).

At any rate, I have some thoughts on Gorm, Madarua, and the other guy 
(can't think of his name offhand), which I'd be more than happy to share 
with you once I've got them written down in a more coherent manner. :)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 20:12:03 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells in Mystara et alii

On Mon, 13 Jan 1997 dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it wrote:

> 5) Why in the Gazetteers the people don't seem to improve and gain levels
>  throughout the years? Only Sitara Rohini actually raised from Cleric of 
> 1st to 2nd level in one(!!) year. Other strange things: Bargle  
> (described as Wizard of 16th level in Karameikos gazetteer set in 1000 
> ac) actually gained 12 levels in 10 years (!!) whereas the ruling Baron 
> von Hendriks remained at the same level (16), how can it be??? And the 
> PX he should have received for his ruling (as Companion level states)? > 

I was just thinking about this one last night, mainly because I was going 
through some old papers wherein I had projected the levels of the various 
ruling wizards of Glantri through the years. I remember initially doing 
that little project because of the note in PC4 about keeping track of 
Malachie's level increases over the time of the campaign. If anyone is 
interested in hearing my estimated projections, I'd be glad to post them.

More to the point, however, keep in mind that the XP requirements at 
such high levels as most of the NPCs is tremendous. They just aren't 
going to make huge leaps and bounds in the short time that low level 
characters, such as Sitara, are. 

As for Bargle, I can't quite justify the massive leap, though I don't 
seem to recall that he was only 16th level in GAZ1, so I'll have to take 
your word for that. And if your implication for Sitara is that she is 
taking entirely too long to reach a new level, keep in mind that she is 
fairly inactive for a character- she hasn't seen a lot of combat, the 
primary source for XP in characters' lives- and also compare that to the 
average 0 level joe in the street. Von Hendriks, too, is another matter. 
He should be somewhat higher level than he is. Here's another possible 
project for anyone interested, to try and project NPCs levels to 1014 (I 
also recall having done this for the various NPCs of the Princess Ark at 
one point...)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:27:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alternate Ierendi and Doubts about trail map

> In X7 it is a city of Tritons, but information in PC3 
> contradicts this, and would seem to indicate that it is a Shark-kin city.

 X7 is one of the few modules I'm still missing.. are there any time
references? I have the impression that possibly the Tritons originally
inhabited the city, but it's now ruled by the Shark-kin.. are am I
complete off base here?

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 02:19:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Succession in Nouvelle Averoigne

In a message dated 97-01-13 22:19:06 EST, jsmill@imap1.asu.edu (Cthulhudrew,
The Great Old One) writes:

<< Given this, I'd say that Etienne either Geased Catherine not to want to 
 take the throne again (either alone or in concert with Henri), or else 
 just made plans so that in the event of his being ousted, disappearing, 
 or whatever, she would not be able to legitimately claim the throne in 
 any case- some sort of motion passed at Parliament, or something, or 
 maybe even just something as simple as saying, "She's not my legitimate 
 heir."
 
 How's that work? >>

I am surprised that he did not disinherit Henri as well -- if I recall
correctly,
Catherine would legally have been his co-ruler already.  But it is as good
an idea as any, I think.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:10:07 +-100
From: Tarjeh <kstephan@online.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TELES-TREIBER

Was ist es?
Ich kann nicht spreiche deutch, kannst die anders?
Nein!

Sprachts du englisch?

Tarjeh

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:14:02 +-100
From: Tarjeh <kstephan@online.no>
Subject: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac Style.

Oh.... I'm sorry if someone misunderstood.
About the writing style, Poor Wizards Almanac, with comments ala Joshuans is perfect. Stats OK. I love'm.

Okay?

Tarjeh
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:15:49 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alternate Ierendi and Doubts about trail map

On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Daniel Boese wrote:

>  X7 is one of the few modules I'm still missing.. are there any time
> references? I have the impression that possibly the Tritons originally
> inhabited the city, but it's now ruled by the Shark-kin.. are am I
> complete off base here?

No time references, unfortunately. X7 came out far in advance of the 
Gazetteer series, wherein a timeline for the world of Mystara first came 
into evidence. It is apparently current continuity (whatever you want 
that to mean), in that it refers to both the Kingdom of Ierendi and the 
Minrothad Guilds.

PC3 may have mentioned something to the effect that Tritons originally 
ruled, my memory is vague on this point, but, all in all, I don't really 
think it matters much. it would be very simple to transplant the city to 
the Triton ruled areas of Undersea, possibly even expanding this into a 
campaign utilizing some of the Triton NPCs in the back of the book. It 
could then become a very political campaign. I seem to recall at least 
one of the triton rulers is a Velya (a monster that makes its 1st- I 
think- appearance in X7), as well as one of them being a wereshark- 
another monster that appears in the module. This could lead to expanded 
roleplay in Undersea following the module. Optionally, the module could 
easily be adapted to Sea Creatures, thus making full use of PC3.

Of course, the other option would be to change the city in the module 
into a city of Shark-kin, which would make for some interesting changes 
to the structure of the module overall.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:29:17 -0800 (PST)
From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Subject: [Mystara] what we could do in the future

>If both of these are done, we could strike them from the initial project
>list so that no newcomers will try to work on them when they have already
>been well-developed.  Although, if some one wants to offer alternatives
>specialty priest posts, I doubt anyone would mind.
>
Okay, how about specialty druid and mystic posts for every immortal who has
such followers?  That would be pretty cool.


 /¯¯|¯¯\    /¯\/¯\    /¯¯¯¯\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/     
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:02:25 -0800 (PST)
From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Here Ya' Go, Dave (was projects)

At 06:09 AM 1/10/97 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
>On Thu, 9 Jan 1997, David Melik wrote:
>
>> A good thing to read is, in the archives on the list's website, there is a
>> posting that Leroy wrote when the list began, about what the purpose of it
>> is.  (which I *really* think should be in the FAQ.)  It tells about all
>> kinds of projects we could do.  By the way, could someone send me a copy of
>> that information if they have it, I have problems accesing the page.
>
>    Below is that post David was referring to, which I dug up out of the
>first digest.
>    BTW Dave, what kind of prblems are you having accessing the page?
>
It simply does not access it.  I get various error messages.  My internet
provider has been having problems though, and I can't get to many other
pages too.  They were bickering with a phone company who wants power over
net users, and having technical problems, and there's those advertisers and
new users every few seconds that are bogging down bandwidth (many of which
likely don't need the net, or use it significantly or productively, like us
die-hard Mystara fans, I know some people who just try it because it's "the
thing" that's cool or whatever).  Sorry if I went off on a tangent, but all
when such stupid stuff deprives one of one's favorite pages, it starts to
get on one's nerves.  So, I have no idea what the cause of the problem is,
but I know it's a problem for me at least.


 /¯¯|¯¯\    /¯\/¯\    /¯¯¯¯\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/     
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:26:10 -0800 (PST)
From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

At 10:38 PM 1/9/97 -0500, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-01-09 19:59:35 EST, Brant wrote:
>
><< Besides, Mystaros writes better than 95% of the TSR staffers, and his
>stuff is FREE! >>
>
>Out of curiosity, how did you come up to the *95%* total? Are you sure that
>wasn't 94% or perhaps 93.5? I feel sorry for the TSR designer whose body
>happens to fall somewhere around the 95th percent. Must be painful. Now of
>course, if we had 100 designers then there wouldn't be a problem. I guess
>there's potential for growth here. Nevertheless -- three cheers for Mystaros.
>I happen to enjoy his stuff!  :)
>
Now this "Mystaros" fellow isn't a real person, is he?  Was it supposed to
mean Mystarans, as in list members.  Well, whoever you meant, I wouldn't be
suprised if they are better than 95% of TSR staffers.  Of course, I think
the 5% are for the most part, the people who wrote official Mystara stuff,
especially the old stuff.


 /¯¯|¯¯\    /¯\/¯\    /¯¯¯¯\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/     
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:52:51 -0800 (PST)
From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Subject: [Mystara] Immortal catalog (was Re: Here Ya' Go, Dave)

>Plus there is still any amount of work to be done on the definitive 
>Immortal Catalog (for want of a better name), wherein we have been 
>attempting to list the important dates of the Immortals (and I don't mean 
>who's going out with whom...) such as their 'birth date' (when they 
>became Immortal), as well as possible guesses, etc. on their formal 
>mortal identities, in order to try and link them more closely with the 
>world of Mystara.
>
By the way, does anyone have these all put in a file yet?  If so, I'd like a
copy sometime.  That would be a very good thing for people to speculate on
when they reread the WoTI boxed set, and a file is always handy.


 /¯¯|¯¯\    /¯\/¯\    /¯¯¯¯\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/     
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:08:49 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: [Mystara] Linguistics

Okay. I'm sure I'm being rather anal about this, and it really shouldn't 
matter, but if nothing else it's an interesting bit of speculation, and 
if anyone has any advice for me, I'd love to hear it.

The situation? I've been thinking about the linguistics of Mystara 
lately, and how the various languages of the Known World tend to be based 
on real world languages. I'm sure this was done primarily for flavor, and 
so the designers wouldn't have to make names up out of whole cloth, but 
it doesn't seem to hold up in at least one instance, as far as I am 
concerned.

Specifically, in the case of the Hattian/Thyatian connection. The 
Thyatian language seems to be either Latin (Anaxibius) or Italian (di 
Malapietra), which are obviously closely related as both are derived from 
the same base Latin language (awkward pause as he rereads that last 
sentence... whatever). Now, given that the Hattians are part of the same 
group of peoples the Thyatians are from, it would seem that their 
languages would be similar. 

Yet the Hattians seem to have a distinctly German language, much 
different from that of the Thyatians. Now, I could see where the 
Heldanners would speak German, given a Latin influence from the Hattian 
intruders, mixed with the Scandinavian roots of their Heldannic language 
(and a lot more mixing time that 40-50 years, but that's another story). 
Yet I don't see how the Hattians, who aren't separated (geographically 
speaking) that far from the other Thyatians, would have developed this 
language on their own. Any ideas?

For that matter, it seems to me that after 200+ years, Glantrians would 
have some sort of common Glantrian tongue that is spoken at least in the 
more centralized regions of Glantri (and likely being a smattering of all 
the various languages of the Principalities). I can see the various 
Alphatians and perhaps the clannish Scots of Klantyre maintaining their 
oral traditions as much as possible, but it seems to me that a common 
language should have developed by now. In addition, some of the more 
outlying dominions, such as the very isolated Viscounty of Blofeld, would 
have developed very distinct dialects of this root language- not so much 
that they couldn't communicate with more centrally located Glantrians, 
but enough that a good linguist could note from which region the speaker 
hailed from.

Anyway, it's just a thought, and I'd be very interested to hear what 
anyone else might think about the matter.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:01:39 -0800 (PST)
From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Products Scheduled to be Put Online

At 01:02 AM 1/11/97 +0000, you wrote:
>>In a message dated 97-01-09 00:18:32 EST, Aaron Reif wrote:
>>>if TSR wants to make a little money on this venture, they could even
>>>copy all this stuff onto CD-ROMs and sell them for like $10 for a CD full of
>>>old games.  That's what older [computer/video] games do all the time, and
>>>even though they don't make much money at it, the cost of copying to a CD is
>>>minimal if the "product" is already written.  I find that it works very well
>>>with software, since I often don't want to spend $50 on a game.  I can wait
>>>a few years to have the company release just the software (most of the
>>>manuals and "extras" are not included) for $10-15.  I've bought many games
>>>this way, and I think it would be a good way for TSR to make a little money
>>>on something that they've already invested in.  This makes even more sense
>>>if people are already going to "digitize" the books anyway, for use online.
>>>I, for one, would spend the $10 for the CD so that I wouldn't have to spend
>>>hours online trying to download the files.  Anybody else like this idea?
>>>Anybody from TSR paying attention???
>>
>>
>>Um, yes. Some of us are, even if we remain silent for the most part. Thanks
>>for the ideas. I'll see what I can do about this one.  :)
>>
>>Bruce Heard
>
>I think something like this would be absolutely wonderful!  Hey, I'd be
>willing to bet
>that there are plenty of people out there willing to spend the money to make
>this worth 
>TSR's effort.  I, and probably many others, would be perfectly willing to
>even volunteer
>the time to scan or type many old modules for this, if TSR simply gave us
>the go-ahead.
>This is the first really viable way that I've seen suggested that TSR could
>make money 
>off their old Mystara products without having to risk mush of anything.  We
>would really appreciate your support of this, Bruce!
>
If that was produced and I bought it, that would be the best $10 I'd have
spent on a cd or a rpg.  By the original D&D boxed set, I'd buy that if it
came out, maybe even if I had to sell my right arm for $10 to get it(well
maybe not that, but you know what I mean.)  I don't think they should be
typed though, why not fully scanned, with all the art, the covers,
everything, and wasn't there some TSR program that you can use the maps
with?  The Mystara arcade games would be cool on cd too, maybe on the same
one.  I think they would probably fit, more can fit on a cd than many people
think.  Well heck, I guess I'm starting to get into wishful thinking.  If I
only had a scanner... maybe they have one at the college my mom works at...


 /¯¯|¯¯\    /¯\/¯\    /¯¯¯¯\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/     
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:23:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: [Mystara] Alternity, Blackmoor?

 I've heard that TSR is creating a new science-fiction gaming system
called Alternity.. I don't know anything else about it, but I'm hoping
that there's be a late-era Blackmoor setting supplement.. :)

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:23:23 -0800 (PST)
From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Succession in Nouvelle Averoigne

At 08:22 PM 1/11/97 +0000, you wrote:
>><< Last night, one of my players asked a good question about Catharine
>> d'Ambreville:  
>> Why didn't she become Princess of Nouvelle Averoigne upon Etienne's death?
>>
I don't have as much info on Glantri as I wish I did, but here's an idea if
there is no explanation.  Perhaps there is a disturbing legend that suggests
the next person who takes the throne shall be slain, by someone who you
could think of, and someone evil has been plotting to take control, for a
long time.  maybe it has something to do with the human/werebeast conflict I
hear about.  I know it might sound sort of generic but the idea popped into
my head so I thought I might as well post it.


 /¯¯|¯¯\    /¯\/¯\    /¯¯¯¯\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/     
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net

------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #318
*****************************


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mystara-digest        Monday, January 20 1997        Volume 01 : Number 319




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:23:41 -0800 (PST)
From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] projects and keeping Mystara alive

At 11:11 AM 1/10/97 -0500, you wrote:
>> As for projects other than MOrient and the 1013 almanac, I have no idea, but
>> I have a feeling that there are others.  Is it just me, or does it seem like
>> often, people don't communicate well enough that there is a project that is
>> or can be collaborative?
>
>I think the problem is that many of us have our own interests which others
>wouldn't be so so enthusiastic about.  I, for example, am very interested
>in expanding on the Hollow World cultures listed in the boxed set but not
>given their own individual books-peoples like the Tanagoro or Kogolor who
>would have their own distinct culture, art, entertainment, government but
>whom we are not given much detail about.  I asked a long time back if
>anyone else was interested in developing the Kogolor peoples and didn't
>get any responses, if I recall correctly.  So I have decided to work on it
>when(IF) I ever get free time.  I know others have also gone off and done
>their own individual projects, which they have already posted about such
>as Cthuludrew(sp?)'s work on several undeveloped immortals like Forsetta.
>Anyways, I suggest that if you have an idea, post some information about
>it.  If people wish to help, they will offer their help.  Otherwise, work
>on it yourself and then let us see what you have done and see if the list
>as a whole can help out and make suggestions.  Back to lurking now -Mischa
>
I guess that's sad but true.  I have an idea that might help however, if we
could carry it out.  If we could make some kind of continual recording of
projects that people are working on, or are thinking of doing in the future,
the ones they welcome others collaboration, that is, anyone could just read
it when they wanted to join one, and if someone mentioned one it could be
added to the list.  By the time someone gets some free time, if they want to
do a project, they may have forgotten about an interesting one, but it often
still is there.  People who have ideas normally don't continue asking if
anyone wants to work with them, if no one says anything after a few posts
(those 2 sentences are really what I meant about poor communication).  I
know there are over 100 people on the list, maybe even over 200 now.  If we
took turns looking at posts for several days, recording projects, and taking
off completed ones, if we coordinate ourselves, think of how much it could
help our creativity!  Then again, maybe there usually aren't enough projects
to have such a recording, it really could be more of a hassle than a help,
and could take our time away from other things.  Maybe there aren't enough
of us who would want to take a turn, and maybe there aren't enough of us
that work together on projects enough, but I just hate seeing good ideas
wither away.


 /¯¯|¯¯\    /¯\/¯\    /¯¯¯¯\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/     
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:22:54 -0800 (PST)
From: David Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Talon-Style Martial Arts

At 05:26 PM 1/11/97 +-100, you wrote: (great post cut down somewhat to save
space)

It looks like a pretty wicked kit.

>Talon Priest: The Kit
...
>Special Disadvantages: The Talon priest has no power over undead. The
Priest >lives in solibate and may never become intoxicated on purpose.

Just a question, do you mean celibate or solitude, or both, or is solibate
an actual word?  I don't understand.

>6: Death Wheel: 
>Also called the "spinner", this attack is performed as the priest gathers
inner >energy to free himself from the power of gravity. He levitates in the
air, >starts to spin, and shoots towards his enemy, claws raking at an
immense speed. >The effect is: Use a Intution/Wisdom check,Range of flight:
10yds/lvl, Speed 10 >to gather energy, roll 2d6 attack rolls at +1 damage.
The only way to stop a >Death wheel is by whacking the priest away in the
exact moment, (-4 to attack >roll), with a Size L or larger bludgeoning
weapon, and roll 10 or more on the >Knockdown Die. Any other attacks on the
priest while in the death wheel causes >only 1/3 of the normal damage
because of the telekinetic force generated around >the priest. After
performing a Death Wheel, the priest can't cast spells and >suffers a -3 to
attack and damage for 10+1d10 rounds.


>7: Wrath of the Tiger:
>The Priest gather the energy of his ancestors to turn into a frenzied
>fighting-machine. He gains +2 to attack and damage rolls and his attacks
are tripled. >When in this frenzied state, he act like he has +6d8
hitpoints, which >nullifies the >first strikes of the enemy. He can fight
till he has -15 hp, but then he collapses. >This frenzied state lasts until
there are no enemies left in sight. This power can only >be invoked once per
day, and after using it, the priest must rest for 3d6 full turns or >suffer
- -4 to attacks and +3 to AC.

That's a neat idea, the energy of the ancestors.  Clerics in the D&D game
generally get their power from the immortals, but there were such religions
on earth, and of course this is fantasy, so that's a good idea for someone
to expand upon... unless the Shaman supplement covers it...


>The Talon Priest's Code of Honor:
>
>* Fear is acceptable - Cowardice is not
>* Respect your enemy
>* Do not attack the defenseless, the Weak or the innocent.
>* Do not threathen the defenseless, the weak or the innocent to exert
control >over an enemy. (Do not take hostages)
>* Do not involve yourself in the dishonorable actions of others.
>* Any other, weak human weapon is not acceptable. You should rather use
>yourself as a weapon than tose primitive things.
>* Mind Control is not acceptable and is not to be used.

Because of this last one and #6, I must ask, do they use psionics?  I always
thought it would be cool to research chi/prana, which it seems like #6
utilizes, and make a system to integrate it into martial arts styles, maybe
the mystic, or something, I don't know. Even if it is psionics, which I'm
not too sure of, or allowing for psionics in that martial arts styles
system.  Maybe a new version/kit of the mystic or monk, or a new class
entirely.  Maybe this sort of idea is a good idea for MOrient...




 /¯¯|¯¯\    /¯\/¯\    /¯¯¯¯\
/   |   \  /      \  / o  o \
|   |   |  |      |  |      |
\  /|\  /   \    /   \ \__/ /
 \/_|_\/ ,   \  /  ,  \____/     
              \/
Peace, Love, & Happiness,

David Melik
Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 01:57:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Linguistics

Here is how I have handled the language problems you cited:

1) Hattian -- Hattian is indeed related to Thyatian.  However, for some as
yet 
unexplained reason, Hattian NAMES are in another, unnamed language that
is distantly related to the Antalian languages of the Northern Reaches.  
Similar situations occur among the Ochaleans (who use Chinese-sounding
names, despite the fact that their language is a dialect of Alphatian, which
does not have a Chinese sound to it at all) and the Belcadiz Elves of
Glantri (who use Spanish-sounding names, probably derived from the
Savage Coast, despite the fact that they seem to speak the same languages
as other Glantrian Elves).

2) Glantrian Common -- The original inhabitants of what is now Glantri spoke
Flaemish, a dialect of Alphatian.  The current "Common" language is the
Thyatian spoken by the later immigrants, with many loan words from the
many other languages spoken in Glantri.  In fact, similar situations would
seem to occur in Darokin and Minrothad -- the most reasonable supposition
is that their languages are dialects of Thyatian, fully comprehensible but
perhaps a little bizarre sounding to the folks living in Thyatis City.

How do these theories sound?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:11:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Linguistics

> Here is how I have handled the language problems you cited:
> 
> 1) Hattian -- Hattian is indeed related to Thyatian.  However, for some as
> yet 
> unexplained reason, Hattian NAMES are in another, unnamed language that
> is distantly related to the Antalian languages of the Northern Reaches.  

 Just to help out on this one a little, is it possible that they
"imported" the names from the Heldann Freeholds/Territories by way of the
Heldannic Knights?

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 11:14:00 -0600
From: "GUILLORY: BRANT" <cah2774@texcom-hood.army.mil>
Subject: [Mystara] Who is Mystaros

Form: Memo
Text: (9 lines follow)
He is a real person - an AOL contributor to the Mystara bulletin board in 
TSR's online area.  I believe that he is a lurker on this list as well.  his 
background is humanities (and anthropology, too, I think...) and he writes 
some outstanding things related to the history and of various cultures and 
their developments.

Brant


Use Proportional Font: true

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:08:22 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Chronomancy in OD&D

>I've just reread the Chronomancer supplement and a doubt has arised into my mind like a sudden spring Thunderstorm: does the Chronomancer get also the normal spells available to normal OD&D wizards or is he restricted only to the ones listed in the supplement? And what is his progression table regarding spells: that of the normal magic user? And what about the Time Champion and the Time Reaver: do they get only the spells listed in the book or also the other available to normal M-Us? Maybe i misunderstood something, but if so please correct me.
>DM
>
>"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
>(That which is not known is enchanting)
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:09:20 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Re: languages

> You wrote:
>>> Here is how I have handled the language problems you cited:
>>> 
>>> 1) Hattian -- Hattian is indeed related to Thyatian.  However, for some as
>>> yet 
>>> unexplained reason, Hattian NAMES are in another, unnamed language that
>>> is distantly related to the Antalian languages of the Northern Reaches.  
>>
>> Just to help out on this one a little, is it possible that they
>>"imported" the names from the Heldann Freeholds/Territories by way of the
>>Heldannic Knights?
>>
>>--
>>Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
>>
>Mmmh... no way. Here's the reasons:
>1) The Heldannic Knights developed much after the Hattian society was established
>2) The Heldannic Knights were expelled from the Storm Soldiers and from Hattia because of their cruelty and so it is not possible IMHO that the Hattians have adopted names "imported" by those people they hated so much
>
>We must not forget that the thyatian civilization comprises many real-world tongues: not only Latin and Italian (which are indeed related), but also German (Hattia) as you said, and Spanish (do you remeber the Ispans who settled in the Savage Coast and became the inhabitants of the Savage Baronies? They came from Kerendas). As far as we know, there could be also Greek and Russian (or Rumanian), since they had contact with the Milenian Empire first and then with Traladara, and surely there are people who speak Ylari (Arabian). So, it is indeed a big cradle of languages, but still the problem of Hattian language remains: where have the Hattians learnt it? The only explanation i can give is that an offshot of Antalian people migrated south for some unknown reason and settled in the lands of the Hattians, rose to power and established their own tongue as the tongue of nobility, which then became the common tongue throughout the years among those of hattian heritage. As for the !
 other 
T
>hyatian languages, i think i have clearly explained their origin (Ispan could very well be a dialect originated from Kerendan -that is to say Italian, which in my opinion is the Kerendan tongue).
>As for the Ochalean tongue, i think the Alphatian that colonized the island could have met the original inhabitants who descended from a proud race of a long dead civilization and have adopted their tongue to distinguish themselves from the Alphatian fatherland;
>or Ochalean is one of the many dialects spoken in the Alphatian old world.
>DM
>
>"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
>(That which is not known is enchanting)
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:56:31 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Who is Mystaros

On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, GUILLORY: BRANT wrote:

> He is a real person - an AOL contributor to the Mystara bulletin board in 
> TSR's online area.  I believe that he is a lurker on this list as well.  his 
> background is humanities (and anthropology, too, I think...) and he writes 
> some outstanding things related to the history and of various cultures and 
> their developments.

Huh! Sounds like someone I'd be interested in talking to, or at least 
hearing about some of his stuff. Mystaros, if you're out there, I'd love 
to hear some of your articles, etc. :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:38:17 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: [Mystara] Dwarven ages

Question:

Aaron Allston's GAZ6 does a breakdown of the life cycles of dwarves, 
placing the maximum age of that race around 200 years. Other products, 
including the Cyclopedia and Companion Set, place dwarvish ages around 
400 years max. Information on pre-cataclysm dwarves seem to bear the 
latter age limit out, if only due to the extraordinary age of Uberstar 
Khazakhum, the legendary Regent of the Mines from the DA series, who is 
rumored to be a very old dwarf indeed (IIRC, around 900 years old)... of 
course, it's possible that he could have been a Denwarf like golem leader 
for the early dwarves...).

Anyway, any thoughts on this out there?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:39:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chronomancy in OD&D

> I've just reread the Chronomancer supplement and a doubt has arised into
> my mind like a sudden spring Thunderstorm: does the Chronomancer get
> also the normal spells available to normal OD&D wizards or is he
> restricted only to the ones listed in the supplement? And what is his
> progression table regarding spells: that of the normal magic user? And
> what about the Time Champion and the Time Reaver: do they get only the
> spells listed in the book or also the other available to normal M-Us?
> Maybe i misunderstood something, but if so please correct me.

 Here's how it works in AD&D: A Chronomancer gets to memorize any spell,
just like a normal mage, with two exceptions: he can /never/ memorize a
spell of his opposition spheres; and he can memorize 1 extra Chronomancy
spell in each spell level he can cast (ie, 1 first level spell, 1 2nd,
etc).
 I'm not sure how it would work in oD&D, but please, share what you work
out. :)

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca

------------------------------

Date: 16 Jan 97 12:34:09 EST
From: Carl Quaif <101337.2464@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Who is Mystaros

Brant wrote:-

>He is a real person - an AOL contributor to the Mystara bulletin board in 
>TSR's online area.  I believe that he is a lurker on this list as well.  his 
>background is humanities (and anthropology, too, I think...) and he writes 
>some outstanding things related to the history and of various cultures and 
>their developments.

If this is the case - and especially if Mystaros IS a lurker on this list - any
chance of those poor souls (myself included) who aren't on AOL seeing some of
his work? Speaking for myself, the cultures of the Known World, and Mystara in
general, have always been my first love - more interesting than "just another
list of spells/monsters/magic items", although they are fun, too - and I would
love to see more.

Carl (Bugwort) Quaif

PS: Cthuludrew? You mentioned the Kubitts a few days ago. May I be permitted to
have a go at a geopolitical writeup for them?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:52:54 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Who is Mystaros

On 16 Jan 1997, Carl Quaif wrote:

> PS: Cthuludrew? You mentioned the Kubitts a few days ago. May I be permitted 
> to have a go at a geopolitical writeup for them?

Go for it! You sure as heck don't need my permission- I'm no one 
important... that's what everyone tells me, at least. :)

Just make sure you post it to the list for us. Hopefully I'll get around 
to postingn my own writeups up here soon, and maybe get some feedback on 
them. So far, all I've got done are the Orclands, Faylinn (thanks to 
whoever it was that corrected me the other day, I forgot who :), and I'm 
more or less done with a writeup for one of the areas of Graakhalia- the 
mutated forest in the middle of that area- though I'll probably post a 
writeup I've been working on for a monster first to get some feedback... 
So many things to do- I keep saying I'll do them, but in my normal timely 
manner I'll probably get them up a month from now... :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 10:18:28 -0800 (PST)
From: jam@wimsey.com (Jenni A. Merrifield)
Subject: [Mystara] Seeking a Northlands Sage

Hello Mystarans,
 
  I'm looking for some help regarding a campaign I'm in the middle of
DM'ing.  As the subject suggests, I need help with something that 
involves the Northlands.  I have access to the Gaz, but it isn't mine,
and even though I've read it, I seem to have gotten myself stuck 
with a bit of "mysterious PC background" that I basicly threw together
without dealing with the ultimate conclusion.
 
  Well, wasn't that nice and vague. ;-)  I'm not going to mention any more
because one of my players is also on this list.

  However, if you are on this list and might truthfully consider yourself a
"Northlands Sage" (i.e., You feel you have a really good grasp of the
Northland "Way of Life", general attitudes, history, etc) I'd appreciate it
if you would send me an e-mail, and I'll explain my little predicament in
more detail.  I'm hoping that by bashing some ideas around with one or
more other people, I might be able to come to a reasonable conclusion.

  Since this is /very/ specific to my campaign, I don't want to carry on
the discussion in the mailing list, so please try and reply to my 
personal address, not to the list.

  Thanks, in advance, for any help!

- -=> strawberryJAMM <=-
Jenni A. M. Merrifield

PS:  I'd also prefer it if you could use the e-mail address shown in my
signature rather than the address this came from.  I've been trying to
get io.com to switch my subscription to Mystara-L from one to the other, 
but so far no luck.  It just tells me my request has been forwarded to the
list owner for approval, but then I never get any confirmation and I keep
getting mail here (jam@wimsey.com) instead of there (strawberry@jamm.com).
[HEY LEROY!  CAN YOU GET THIS FIXED?] --JAMM

  
- -- 
      Jenni A. M. Merrifield       | God created light.  Then Earth, Vegetables
      -=> strawberryJAMM <=-       | Animals and Humans.  Then God started to
       strawberry@jamm.com         | think:  "I should create things *I* like!"
http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html| And God said: "Let there be Strawberries!"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:00:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Linguistics

In a message dated 97-01-16 14:30:38 EST, lu000122@lunet.it (Fabrizio Paoli)
writes:

From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 09:26:35 1997
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<< Moreover both nations (Darokin and Minrothad) are home of merchants that
 travel known-worldwide (and beyond), so their languages have probably many
 foreign influences.  >>

My main reason for making Darokinian a dialect of Thyatian is sheer 
practicality -- Darokin is surrounded by nations where Thyatian is spoken 
as either a first or second language.  So I figured that either (1)
Darokinian
merchants routinely learn Thyatian as a second language so that they
can talk with their customers, or (2) Darokinian is actually a form of
Thyatian.  The PWAs actually seem to support the latter theory.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:10:56 +-100
From: Tarjeh <kstephan@online.no>
Subject: [Mystara] PWA cover fault?

I saw that on the cover of my PWA (I think it is 1011 or something), there is a picture of Wulfgar, the friend of Drizzt in the Forgotten Realms setting. What is he doing on a mystaran almanac?

Tarjeh

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:19:50 +0000
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chronomancy in OD&D

At 11.39 16/01/97 -0500, you wrote:
>> I've just reread the Chronomancer supplement and a doubt has arised into
>> my mind like a sudden spring Thunderstorm: does the Chronomancer get
>> also the normal spells available to normal OD&D wizards or is he
>> restricted only to the ones listed in the supplement? And what is his
>> progression table regarding spells: that of the normal magic user? And
>> what about the Time Champion and the Time Reaver: do they get only the
>> spells listed in the book or also the other available to normal M-Us?
>> Maybe i misunderstood something, but if so please correct me.
>
> Here's how it works in AD&D: A Chronomancer gets to memorize any spell,
>just like a normal mage, with two exceptions: he can /never/ memorize a
>spell of his opposition spheres; and he can memorize 1 extra Chronomancy
>spell in each spell level he can cast (ie, 1 first level spell, 1 2nd,
>etc).
> I'm not sure how it would work in oD&D, but please, share what you work
>out. :)
>
>--
>Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
>
Well, thanks for the explanation. Maybe for OD&D i think a good solution
would be to make some spells impossible to cast for the chronomancer (as a
sort of barter: you give me a Wesley Temporal Disjunction and i give you a
Conjure Elemental), but i'll have to work this out a bit more. 
And regarding the spells progression table? The same of the M-U if i
understood well, but also for Champion and Reaver? Wow, if so they could
kick Eriadna's youknowwhat!

DM 

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:06:33 +0000
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dwarven ages

At 08.38 16/01/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Question:
>
>Aaron Allston's GAZ6 

ahh *sighing* good ole Aaron Allston, where are you now? I appreciated his
last work (I, Tyrant) very much and hope he will contribute to our Mystara list

>does a breakdown of the life cycles of dwarves, 
>placing the maximum age of that race around 200 years. Other products, 
>including the Cyclopedia and Companion Set, place dwarvish ages around 
>400 years max. Information on pre-cataclysm dwarves seem to bear the 
>latter age limit out, if only due to the extraordinary age of Uberstar 
>Khazakhum, the legendary Regent of the Mines from the DA series, who is 
>rumored to be a very old dwarf indeed (IIRC, around 900 years old)... of 
>course, it's possible that he could have been a Denwarf like golem leader 
>for the early dwarves...).
>
>Anyway, any thoughts on this out there?
>
>Cthulhudrew, the Great Old One

Yes, it is a question that has puzzled me, too. I think the appropriate
answer should be to refer to GAZ6, which seems to be the "official" guide to
dwarves, even though i must admit 200 years are maybe few for a stout race
as dwarves. But maybe it is just Mystara dwarves that have a lifespan so
short: other worlds' and settings' may live longer.
As for Uberstar, he could have been Denwarf itself...

DM 

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:21:14 +0000
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] New Fighting rules

I have developed last year an interesting rule system i currently use in my
own sessions based on the manga Dragoball Z and Fist of the North Star: it
is based on schools of martial arts that teach the disciples to use their
inner strength and power (called Karma)to fight unarmed, using only deadly
secret passes. If u are interested in the core rules, let me know.
DM 

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:25:19 +0000
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] New Fighting rules

>Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:21:14 +0000
>To: mystara-l@io.com
>From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
>Subject: New Fighting rules
>
>I have developed last year an interesting rule system i currently use in my
own sessions based on the manga Dragoball Z and Fist of the North Star: it
is based on schools of martial arts that teach the disciples to use their
inner strength and power (called Karma)to fight unarmed, using only deadly
secret passes. If u are interested in the core rules, let me know.
>
I have had problems in delivering my last messages: see if there is
something wrong with your server, OK?
DM 

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:23:10 +0000
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Dwarves

>At 08.38 16/01/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>Question:
>>
>>Aaron Allston's GAZ6 
>
ahh *sighing* good ole Aaron Allston, where are you now? I appreciated his
last work (I, Tyrant) very much and hope he will contribute to our Mystara list
>
>>does a breakdown of the life cycles of dwarves, 
>>placing the maximum age of that race around 200 years. Other products, 
>>including the Cyclopedia and Companion Set, place dwarvish ages around 
>>400 years max. Information on pre-cataclysm dwarves seem to bear the 
>>latter age limit out, if only due to the extraordinary age of Uberstar 
>>Khazakhum, the legendary Regent of the Mines from the DA series, who is 
>>rumored to be a very old dwarf indeed (IIRC, around 900 years old)... of 
>>course, it's possible that he could have been a Denwarf like golem leader 
>>for the early dwarves...).
>>
>>Anyway, any thoughts on this out there?
>>
>>Cthulhudrew, the Great Old One
>
Yes, it is a question that has puzzled me, too. I think the appropriate
answer should be to refer to GAZ6, which seems to be the "official" guide to
dwarves, even though i must admit 200 years are maybe few for a stout race
as dwarves. But maybe it is just Mystara dwarves that have a lifespan so
short: other worlds' and settings' may live longer.
As for Uberstar, he could have been Denwarf itself...

DM 

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)


>
DM 

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:21:47 +0000
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Chronomancy and OD&D

>
>At 11.39 16/01/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>> I've just reread the Chronomancer supplement and a doubt has arised into
>>> my mind like a sudden spring Thunderstorm: does the Chronomancer get
>>> also the normal spells available to normal OD&D wizards or is he
>>> restricted only to the ones listed in the supplement? And what is his
>>> progression table regarding spells: that of the normal magic user? And
>>> what about the Time Champion and the Time Reaver: do they get only the
>>> spells listed in the book or also the other available to normal M-Us?
>>> Maybe i misunderstood something, but if so please correct me.
>>
>> Here's how it works in AD&D: A Chronomancer gets to memorize any spell,
>>just like a normal mage, with two exceptions: he can /never/ memorize a
>>spell of his opposition spheres; and he can memorize 1 extra Chronomancy
>>spell in each spell level he can cast (ie, 1 first level spell, 1 2nd,
>>etc).
>> I'm not sure how it would work in oD&D, but please, share what you work
>>out. :)
>>
>>--
>>Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
>>
Well, thanks for the explanation. Maybe for OD&D i think a good solution
would be to make some spells impossible to cast for the chronomancer (as a
sort of barter: you give me a Wesley Temporal Disjunction and i give you a
Conjure Elemental), but i'll have to work this out a bit more. 
And regarding the spells progression table? The same of the M-U if i
understood well, but also for Champion and Reaver? Wow, if so they could
kick Eriadna's youknowwhat!

DM 

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)
>
>
>
DM 

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:16:52 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Western Defense League and X-files

 I had this strange idea when i started to play with my 3rd group (they are involved mostly in investigation-style adventures): why not to form inside the Western Defense League a sort of FBI (i called it International Bureau of Security - IBS), a department that has the duty to report and investigate any strange or possible dangerous cases (misteries) that happens in one of the WDL nations. It could be made of Agents and Special Agents who are assigned to different cases in these nations by the high ranking individuals who rule this branch of the WDL, and they would have practically police-status within any of the domains who adhere to WDL. What do you think about introducing our personal Mulders and Scullys in Mystara? It could be intriguing, especially if you think at that article on Joshuan Almanac concerning Aliens and burned crops.....

DM

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:22:12 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dwarven ages

On Fri, 17 Jan 1997 dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it wrote:

> Yes, it is a question that has puzzled me, too. I think the appropriate
> answer should be to refer to GAZ6, which seems to be the "official" guide to
> dwarves, even though i must admit 200 years are maybe few for a stout race
> as dwarves. But maybe it is just Mystara dwarves that have a lifespan so
> short: other worlds' and settings' may live longer.

Or maybe the 'new' Kagyar created dwarves have the shorter lifespans, and 
the old original dwarf race had the longer lifespans?

> As for Uberstar, he could have been Denwarf itself...

Doubtful, as Denwarf wasn't created until Kagyar took an interest in the 
dwarf race, after they were all destroyed in the Great Rain of Fire. 

Of course, Denwarf could be a sort of titan type of figure (like in the 
WotI), and Uberstar was the spirit that Kagyar bound to him to lead the 
new race of dwarves in the future...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:30:19 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Western Defense League and X-files

On Fri, 17 Jan 1997 dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it wrote:

> why not to form inside the Western Defense League a sort of FBI (i called it 
> International Bureau of Security - IBS), a department that has the duty 
> to report and investigate any strange or possible dangerous cases 
> (misteries) that happens in one of the WDL nations. It could be made of 
> Agents and Special Agents who are assigned to different cases in these 
> nations by the high ranking individuals who rule this branch of the WDL, 
> and they would have practically police-status within any of the domains 
> who adhere to WDL. 

I actually did this on one of my old campaigns. It was inspired by the 
note in GAZ11 which said that no halflings have ever been admitted to the 
DDC. As I was currently beginning a new campaign, and was looking for a 
theme, I had the halfling currently in the party (a real ditz, or so the 
party thought) turn out to be a special agent for the DDC who was working 
directly under Corwyn Mauntea to form a task force to investigate the 
strange occurrences in the world (this was set just at the onset of 1004 
AC, when things started to go screwy). The dwarf in the party, a cobbler, 
was the halflings partner, but the other PCs were clueless, as they were 
still being tested to see if they were the sort of people the Special 
Task Force of the DDC were looking for. 

I dropped all sorts of hints about things- from the dwarf's family name, 
Ironboot, showing up as the most famous brand of shoes (when they got to 
Darokin- his family is the 11th richest house in Darokin! ;). The best 
was how the halfling would occasionally act in strange, seemingly 
irrational ways. Even before I had figured out who he was going to be, he 
would often disappear for a long time from the party, wandering off. At 
first it was just because he was a ditz, but later, he started to have 
secret dealings. The mystic in the party (inarguably the brightest player 
in the group) was the only one to really suspect anything, but 
unfortunately the campaign never reached the point where the players 
actually discovered what was going on...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:05:46 +0000
From: Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@PostOffice.WorldNet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] PWA cover fault?

At 09:10 AM 1/17/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I saw that on the cover of my PWA (I think it is 1011 or something), there
is a picture of Wulfgar, the friend of Drizzt in the Forgotten Realms
setting. What is he doing on a mystaran almanac?
>
>Tarjeh

The picture is not overtly Forgotten Realms, so TSR probably decided to just
recycle it.  They seem to do this fairly frequently.  Off the top of my
head, I know that the cover art from AC4 was reused for one of their
Forgotten Realms computer games and the cover of X11 was used for some sort
of AD&D deck of spells or something, even though it featured the Shadow Lord
himself.  Apparently the art is expensive, so TSR simply reuses what will
fit moderately well into other campaigns, or what just looks cool.  The
picture could very easily be a Mystaran adventurer, so why not use it?
Patrick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:30:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chronomancy in OD&D

In a message dated 97-01-17 05:13:03 EST, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it writes:

<< Maybe for OD&D i think a good solution
 would be to make some spells impossible to cast for the chronomancer (as a
 sort of barter: you give me a Wesley Temporal Disjunction and i give you a
 Conjure Elemental), but i'll have to work this out a bit more. 
 And regarding the spells progression table? The same of the M-U if i
 understood well, but also for Champion and Reaver? Wow, if so they could
 kick Eriadna's youknowwhat!  >>

Since OD&D has no specialists or opposition schools (spells are not
identified
by school, to start with), I would recommend that the Chronomancer spell
list consist simply of the Chronomancer spell list plus the standard Mage
spell list.  Spell progression would be as per _Chronomancer_ , with NO
bonus spells granted -- presumably, you have this product if you are 
wanting to run a campaign that includes Chronomancers.  From that 
product you will see that the combination types get fewer spells than 
the "straight" Chronomancers.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 08:41:59 -0500 (EST)
From: ChanDog21@aol.com
Subject: [Mystara] Immortals & there Priest hoods

I am currantly trying to compile a list of Immortals & thier Priesthoods in
the F&A style I am using Access as a DBase.  If any one have any ideas E-mail
me.

Chandler Robertson
Chandog21@AOL.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:46:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Levy <mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] PWA cover fault?

On Fri, 17 Jan 1997, Tarjeh wrote:

> I saw that on the cover of my PWA (I think it is 1011 or something)
, there is a picture of Wulfgar, the friend of Drizzt in the Forgotten Realms
 setting. What is he doing on a mystaran almanac?
> 
> Tarjeh
> 

TSR (to its eternal discredit) regularly recycles artwork they like
(occasionally not even very good artwork)  with no regard to the original
association with a particular setting or even a well known character.
Then again, maybe I am overly umsympathetic because I generally loathe
most of the artwork that is associated with fantasy fiction these days ...
I am really not interested in glossy, overly colorful montages of
mega-muscled warrior-women (bearing the face of the artist's paramour)
with ridiculous breasts nestled in impractical and stupid-looking plate
mail wonderbras thrusting fanciful seven foot long swords into the side of
strangely equine dragons/wyverns/substitute sinewy fantasy monster here.
This stuff gets really old, and plus which it has absolutely no subtlety.
I would like to see some styles of artwork that deviate significantly from
the main trends, and I would like to see subject material that is less
stereotypically "fantasy". I am sure that some of you will come down on me
because I am not all that aware of what is out there, so if I have ruffled
any feathers I apologize since I really am not qualified to speak about
everything that's on the market.  anyway just my two bits worth for anyone
who cares.  thanks.
m@2

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:54:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: [Mystara] Polyhedron #120?

 Does anybody have a copy of Polyhedron #120 they can look at? Apparantly
there's an article detailing Myoshima (Mystara's second invisible moon) in
there; I'd like to know if that's true, and what sort if information is in
there before rushing out to mail-order my own copy. (And no, I'm not
asking for the entire article (unless you really, /really/ want to ;) );
just if it's how the info was developed, or if it's geography, history,
and so forth.)

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 03:35:59 -0500 (EST)
From: BZuber5988@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Polyhedron #120?

I'd like to add to Dan's request for Polyhedron #120.  If any RPGA members
are on the list, could you give us all a listing of all Polyhedron articles
you know of that deal with Mystara?  It would be appreciated by all I think.

Delarius

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:41:30 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chronomancy in OD&D

At 21.30 17/01/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Since OD&D has no specialists or opposition schools (spells are not
>identified
>by school, to start with), I would recommend that the Chronomancer spell
>list consist simply of the Chronomancer spell list plus the standard Mage
>spell list.  Spell progression would be as per _Chronomancer_ , with NO
>bonus spells granted -- presumably, you have this product if you are 
>wanting to run a campaign that includes Chronomancers.  From that 
>product you will see that the combination types get fewer spells than 
>the "straight" Chronomancers.
>
i was thinkin to limit a bit the Chronomancer, either by making impossible for them to cast ALL spells of the abjuration, conjuration/summoning and necromancy schools (even if there aren't schools in OD&D it is not so difficult to figure out what normal spells belong to these classes) or making impossible to cast only certain spells per level, i am still trying to figure it out.

DM

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #319
*****************************

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mystara-digest        Tuesday, January 21 1997        Volume 01 : Number 320




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:44:58 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Tale of the Comet

 Will it be available at mpgn.com? And what's this Alternity game i've heard about? Another AD&D-OD&D-Blackmoor crossbreed destined to be trashed after a few months? Who's the producer and designer of this line?
If u know the anwers, share them with me!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:02:27 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] NPCs VIP

 I have noticed something odd: nobody and no TSR supplement or adventure module has ever detailed or featured one of the greatest villains the Known World has ever known (possibly the most powerful one): Gart Nagan (but probably you know him under one of his aliases, namely Gargantua). Gee, a wizard that is able to create such monstrosities as a Gargantuan Troll is really earthshaking, but nobody seem to remember him. Actually in one of my campaigns he is the one who is behind all the PCs' adventures (even though they don't realize it), and in another one (i DM three groups) he helps the PCs many times without they realize it in order to further his plans, a sort of Cancer Man from X-Files always pulling the threads behind the scenes. He is not an Immortal and doesn't want to become one: in fact his aims are higher. He want to become the ruler of all possible realities, planes and dimensions, monitoring everything and changing time flow at his own free will, and to do this h!
 e has 
discovered he must conquer a mysterious Dark Tower (never read Stephen King's the Darktower Series?) that lies at the convergence of all planes and dimensions and is guarded by powerful creatures, so he needs the PCs from all over the worlds he know to get rid of these wardens. Imagine a tower that is like Dragonlance's Towers of High Sorcery and like Planescape's Sigil (it could very well lie in Sigil, sealed or hidden by the Lady of Pain because she is not able to enter it either and doesn't want others to do it): this is the ULTIMATE goal of a mad and genious wizard, and if he succeeds, he could very well trascend the Immortals' power and become an Old One or something even more powerful.
However, think about Gargantua as a NPC....
DM

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:24:05 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Chronomancy question

 Question:
imagine a person from point A in time (let's say 1st Nuwmont 1000 ac) travels to point D (Nuw 1004 ac) and stays until point E (Nuw 1005), then goes back to point A.1 (2nd Nuw 1000) and goes on living normally in his world. What happens when this person finds himself in point D (Nuw 1004 ac)? Is he thrown out in Temporal Prime by a Temporal Storm or what else (assume he has no means of traveling through time and that his former travel through Temporal Prime was a forced one - he was not responsible for it)?
Also, if Temporal Prime itself doesn't allow major changes in his flow (history) as it is stated in the Chronomancer supplement, what exactly is the function of the Guardians and Immortals of Time and Energy? And why do the Immortals have to cast a spell to protect their mortal lifeline if (as stated) Temporal Prime would not allow such dramatic changes as the death of a future Immortal? IMHO Temporal Prime does not have so much control over the events in its flow: after all, if u cannot change anything, than why to go back in time at all?
Let me know your opinions.
DM

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:17:11 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] DMR2 Creature Catalogue

 Where the heck can i find it???!!!! It never arrived in my country (i am 95% sure of this) and it would be a nice idea from TSR if they put it on their MPGN site (if you're there listening dear TSR employees, this is a specific -but polite- request).

DM

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:37:39 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] PC2 Top Ballista

 Men, Carl Sargent did a veeery good work with this product. I have just finished to read it for the 3rd time and it still amuses me: it is more than a reference book, it is a humorous guide!!! Where are u Carl? Good ole days...
PS: In case you don't remember, the Shadow Elves are another Carl's creation..
DM

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:21:27 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] DMR2 Creature Catalogue

> Where the heck can i find it???!!!! It never arrived in my country (i am 95%
>sure of this) and it would be a nice idea from TSR if they put it on their MPGN
>site (if you're there listening dear TSR employees, this is a specific -but
>polite- request).
>
>DM
>
>"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
>(That which is not known is enchanting)
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:19:48 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Alternity

>
> Will it be available at mpgn.com? And what's this Alternity game i've heard
>about? Another AD&D-OD&D-Blackmoor crossbreed destined to be trashed after a few
>months? Who's the producer and designer of this line?
>If u know the anwers, share them with me!
>
>DM

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:20:58 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] PC2

>X-POP3-Rcpt: dalmonte@pegasus
>Return-Path: Administrator_at_DEPZ-O2@bmg.boehringer-mannheim.com
>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 14:50:34 PST
>From: "Administrator" <Administrator_at_DEPZ-O2@bmg.boehringer-mannheim.com>
>Encoding: 8 Text
>To: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
>Subject: Message not deliverable
>
> Men, Carl Sargent did a veeery good work with this product. I have just
>finished to read it for the 3rd time and it still amuses me: it is more than a
>reference book, it is a humorous guide!!! Where are u Carl? Good ole days...
>PS: In case you don't remember, the Shadow Elves are another Carl's creation..
>DM
>
>"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
>(That which is not known is enchanting)
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:18:35 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] OD&D Chronomancer

Possible solution:
Chronomancer receives his chronomancy spells in exchange for normal spells of the specific levels as follows:

Spells lost

First level
1.Protection from Evil
2.Shield

Second level
1.Mirror images
2.Invisibility

Third level
1.Dispel Magic
2.Invisibility (15' radius)
3.Protection from normal Missiles
4.Protection from Evil (15' radius)
5.Reverse of ESP (don't remember the name)

Fourth level
1.Remove curse

Fifth level
1.Animate dead
2.Conjure Elemental
3.Magic jar

Sixth level
1.Anti-magic shell
2.Disintegrate
3.Death spell
4.Reincarnate
5.Invisible stalker

Seventh level
1.Create normal monsters
2.Summon object
3.Multiple Invisibility

Eighth level
1.Mind Barrier
2.Force field
3.Clone
4.Create magical monsters
5.Death Simbol

Ninth level
1.Create any monster
2.Immunity
3.Power word kill
4.Prismatic wall

Tell me what you think about it.
 DM

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:20:40 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Chronomancy question

> Question:
>imagine a person from point A in time (let's say 1st Nuwmont 1000 ac) travels to
>point D (Nuw 1004 ac) and stays until point E (Nuw 1005), then goes back to
>point A.1 (2nd Nuw 1000) and goes on living normally in his world. What happens
>when this person finds himself in point D (Nuw 1004 ac)? Is he thrown out in
>Temporal Prime by a Temporal Storm or what else (assume he has no means of
>traveling through time and that his former travel through Temporal Prime was a
>forced one - he was not responsible for it)?
>Also, if Temporal Prime itself doesn't allow major changes in his flow (history)
>as it is stated in the Chronomancer supplement, what exactly is the function of
>the Guardians and Immortals of Time and Energy? And why do the Immortals have to
>cast a spell to protect their mortal lifeline if (as stated) Temporal Prime
>would not allow such dramatic changes as the death of a future Immortal? IMHO
>Temporal Prime does not have so much control over the events in its flow: after
>all, if u cannot change anything, than why to go back in time at all?
>Let me know your opinions.
>DM
>
>"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
>(That which is not known is enchanting)
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:20:15 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] NPCs VIP

>
> I have noticed something odd: nobody and no TSR supplement or adventure module
>has ever detailed or featured one of the greatest villains the Known World has
>ever known (possibly the most powerful one): Gart Nagan (but probably you know
>him under one of his aliases, namely Gargantua). Gee, a wizard that is able to
>create such monstrosities as a Gargantuan Troll is really earthshaking, but
>nobody seem to remember him. Actually in one of my campaigns he is the one who
>is behind all the PCs' adventures (even though they don't realize it), and in
>another one (i DM three groups) he helps the PCs many times without they realize
>it in order to further his plans, a sort of Cancer Man from X-Files always
>pulling the threads behind the scenes. He is not an Immortal and doesn't want to
>become one: in fact his aims are higher. He want to become the ruler of all
>possible realities, planes and dimensions, monitoring everything and changing
>time flow at his own free will, and to do this h!
> e has 
>discovered he must conquer a mysterious Dark Tower (never read Stephen King's
>the Darktower Series?) that lies at the convergence of all planes and dimensions
>and is guarded by powerful creatures, so he needs the PCs from all over the
>worlds he know to get rid of these wardens. Imagine a tower that is like
>Dragonlance's Towers of High Sorcery and like Planescape's Sigil (it could very
>well lie in Sigil, sealed or hidden by the Lady of Pain because she is not able
>to enter it either and doesn't want others to do it): this is the ULTIMATE goal
>of a mad and genious wizard, and if he succeeds, he could very well trascend the
>Immortals' power and become an Old One or something even more powerful.
>However, think about Gargantua as a NPC....
>DM
>
>"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
>(That which is not known is enchanting)
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:40:36 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Wishes

 Can a character who uses a Wish spell become immune to one specific spell in your opinion?
PS: Sorry if i post so many messages, but since i have free time, why not?
DM

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:02:56 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] DMR2 Creature Catalog

>Subject: Message not deliverable
Third time i try!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>> Where the heck can i find it???!!!! It never arrived in my country (i am 95%
>>sure of this) and it would be a nice idea from TSR if they put it on their MPGN
>>site (if you're there listening dear TSR employees, this is a specific -but
>>polite- request).
>>
>>DM
>>
>>"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
>>(That which is not known is enchanting)
>>
>>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:03:58 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Chronomancy question

>
>
>
>> Question:
>>imagine a person from point A in time (let's say 1st Nuwmont 1000 ac) travels
>to
>>point D (Nuw 1004 ac) and stays until point E (Nuw 1005), then goes back to
>>point A.1 (2nd Nuw 1000) and goes on living normally in his world. What happens
>>when this person finds himself in point D (Nuw 1004 ac)? Is he thrown out in
>>Temporal Prime by a Temporal Storm or what else (assume he has no means of
>>traveling through time and that his former travel through Temporal Prime was a
>>forced one - he was not responsible for it)?
>>Also, if Temporal Prime itself doesn't allow major changes in his flow
>(history)
>>as it is stated in the Chronomancer supplement, what exactly is the function of
>>the Guardians and Immortals of Time and Energy? And why do the Immortals have
>to
>>cast a spell to protect their mortal lifeline if (as stated) Temporal Prime
>>would not allow such dramatic changes as the death of a future Immortal? IMHO
>>Temporal Prime does not have so much control over the events in its flow: after
>>all, if u cannot change anything, than why to go back in time at all?
>>Let me know your opinions.
>>DM
>>
>>"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
>>(That which is not known is enchanting)
>>
>>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1997 14:50:29 GMT
From: Andrew_McKinstry@westtown.edu (Andrew McKinstry)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Tale of the Comet

<< Will it be available at mpgn.com? And what's this Alternity game i've heard
about? Another AD&D-OD&D-Blackmoor crossbreed destined to be trashed after a
few months? Who's the producer and designer of this line?
If u know the anwers, share them>>

I believe that this will be an actual product that is coming to stores in
Febuary (or with TSR's current record, April) so will not be available at
mpgn.com.  As to Alternity, it's a completely new game system coming out in
July, not another Blackmoor/AD&D rehash.  I think Rich, I forget his last
name (he helped to design Birthright), is one of the designers but check at
TSR's web site for all the info (www.tsrinc.com).

Tel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:09:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Polyhedron #120?

> I'd like to add to Dan's request for Polyhedron #120.  If any RPGA members
> are on the list, could you give us all a listing of all Polyhedron articles
> you know of that deal with Mystara?  It would be appreciated by all I think.

 I'm not a member, but here's an at-least-partial list:

Issue   Notes
15      Solo adventure for 1 Level 8 Fighter.  Features a portal to
        transport the character to the current campaign area.  Includes
        thouls and Mystaran living statues.
16      Supplemental material to AC1 The Shady Dragon Inn
100     Mind Flayer reviews Mystaran documents before plane shifting to
        Mystara.
120     Provides some details on how one RPGA member detailed Myoshima,
        using material from Oriental Adventures(both rules and modules).

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:10:05 -0800
From: David Keyser <davidk@Synopsys.COM>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Polyhedron #120?

>  Does anybody have a copy of Polyhedron #120 they can look at? Apparantly
> there's an article detailing Myoshima (Mystara's second invisible moon) in
> there; I'd like to know if that's true, and what sort if information is in
> there before rushing out to mail-order my own copy. (And no, I'm not
> asking for the entire article (unless you really, /really/ want to ;) );
> just if it's how the info was developed, or if it's geography, history,
> and so forth.)
> 
> --
> Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
> 

That article is an outline of how one RPGA member detailed Myoshima.  What he
did was he reused a lot of material from Oriental Adventures, across supplements
and magazines, to build up the moon.  Much of the article is a index of which
OA materials he used that fit with the page of description from Bruce Heard's
original Dragon article.  There are very few actual new details, it is mostly
an account of how and where the guy got his information.

Perhaps developing Myoshima could be another project to add to the list of
online projects?

Rumor has it that Polyhedron has been cancelled, so those four issues you listed
are the final list of Mystara material from that source.

Dave Keyser

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:03:00 +0100
From: Fabrizio Paoli <lu000122@lunet.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Lesser Talisman of Elemental Travel

The description of this magical item in the RC says that it is a round
amulet "engraved with a triangle in the center and a symbol above it (one of
the ten symbols of the elemental ranks)".
Someone knows what these "symbols of the ten elemental ranks" look like and
what "elemental ranks" are ?

**************
Fabrizio Paoli                  brizio@lunet.it            
DM in City Of The Stars 
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html 
                                        

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:25:37 -0800
From: University Services-Internships & Careers <USIC@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Mystara] PlzPOST> Proj DIRs/Interns/Volntrs [AFRICA][BRAZIL] -summer (deadline)

==========================================================================
(IUN) Inter-University Network / University Services-Internships & Careers
==========================================================================
International Programs
Americans, Canadians, etc.



RE:  Non-Profit Organizations
     Summer PROJECT DIRECTORS/INTERNS/VOLUNTEERS
     Approaching Deadlines

     Human Rights and Humanitarian Multi-disciplinary Projects


To: List Owner/Mgr


Please post/forward/share this information.  Likely to be of interest
to the List and to a cross-section of persons seeking meaningful,
"different" summer experiences.

Deadlines/cut offs are but a few weeks away.

Thanks in advance


___________________________________________________________________



Subject:      ANNOUNCE>ProjDIR/Volun/Intern Positions [AFRICA][BRAZIL]
Message-Id:   <AERA%96123009550071@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU>
              "American Educational Research Association List (AERA)"
Comments:     ********************************************************
Newsgroups:   bit.listserv.aera (additional opptys found here)



Application deadlines are approaching for the following summer jobs,
internships, and volunteer positions.


CAREER OPPTYS

   1. AfriCare

......................................................................

SUMMER INTERNSHIPS/VOLUNTEER PROJECTS

   2. Operation Crossroads: Global Volunteers/Interns/Project DIRECTORS
           -> ONLINE applications now available for
                 Proj DIRs & Interns [Africa/Brazil] 

       Aimed at involving North Americans (and others) in sustainable
                development efforts in Africa and Brazil, while
                helping local communities to help themselves

           Academic Credit

           *highlights below*

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


1. A F R I C A R E  -

Recruits for a variety of positions in non-profit
work. BA/BS, 3 years experience, language proficiency, job
specific. Contact:

     Director of Management Services,
     AFRICARE,
     440 R Street, NW
     Washington, D.C. 20001

     (202) 462-3641.

......................................................................


2. O P E R A T I O N   C R O S S R O A D S  [AFRICA][BRAZIL]
From ???@??? Thu Jan 23 13:59:56 1997
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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:21:12 -0600
Message-Id: <199701211921.NAA18674@lists.io.com>
From: (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V1 #320
Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com
Precedence: bulk
X-UIDL: 2309d3c2f08c6de3cb81e347790cfca5


    Global Volunteers/Interns/Project Directors


Crossroads offers an opportunity to do summer work and participate in
multi-disciplinary grassroots projects that Africans and Brazilians
in rural & urban communities deem valuable.  20 - 25 projects are being
organized; plans are for 150 - 200 volunteers/interns and 15 - 20
Project Directors.

Crossroads recently announced that ONLINE applications (due over next few
weeks) are available for Project Directors/Leaders (26 yrs and over with
experience) & for Volunteers/Interns (college age & up; ALL are welcome)

C R E D I T : Students generally arrange with their campuses to receive
academic credit (typically 7 to 15 units) for their summer internship
experience.  The Program starts with a several-day Training Orientation
in NYC in early July; Volunteers return to the US in mid-August.

CONTACT:

     Operation Crossroads,
     Attn: Overseas Department/LaVerne Brown
     475 Riverside Drive, Suite 1366,
     New York, NY 10027

     212-870-2106

Or, to receive the brochure, application and other info by E-Mail,
send your request to <<BOTH>> 


1-  "Applications/Info Update" <International_Programs@Juno.Com>,
2-  "Brochure/New Programs" <oca@igc.apc.org>


   ..and in the Subject Field, put either of the following:

 ->   "SEND VOLUNTEER\INTERN's Packet"     (college age & up/open to all)
                  o r
 ->   "SEND LEADER\ProjDIRECTOR's Packet"  (26 yrs & up with experience)

Please include your street address in case our equipment malfunctions

P r o j e c t   D i r e c t o r / L e a d e r  applicants must include
a brief paragraph on their background & interests to receive application 

   Crossroads helps Volunteers/Interns raise funds for the
          summer; EARLY application is a MUST


====================================================================
  MULTI-DISCIPLINARY PROJECTS / RESEARCH / WORK CAMPS / FIELD STUDY
___________________________________________________________________

  Ecology & Environment. Traditional Medicine. Oral History.
  Folklore. Primary Care. Archaeology. Anthropology. Reforestation.
  Media. <<ROOTS>> Distance Learning. Art. Ethnomusicology. Public
  Health. Construction Wildlife. HUMAN RIGHTS. Computer Literacy.
  Agric/Farming. Nursing. Teaching/Tutoring. Business Dev.
  African/Brazilian Language Study. Youth Programs. Recreation.
  Traditional Religion. Anthropology. Dance. RURAL SOCIOLOGY

*******************************************************************
Including public health campaigns addressing Female Circumcision /
Genital Mutilation [FGM] carried out with sensitivity for local
                    customs and practices

C O U N T R I E S: Botswana, The Gambia, Ghana, Eritrea, Ivory Coast,
   Kenya, Senegal, South Africa, Tanzania, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Namibia,
           Guinea Bissau, Ethiopia, Malawi, Mali, Benin
                  and Brazil (in South America)
                 _______________________________

      Operation Crossroads is a non-profit 501(3)(C) organization
  Credited by JF Kennedy for inspiring the "birth" of the Peace Corps
  Celebrating 40 yrs of service and contribution by 10,000 Volunteers

         "Good ideas without action don't accomplish much"

- -----------------------

(IUN) Inter-University Netowrk
University Services-Internships & Careers
USIC@hotmail.com

Note:  Please post/disseminate

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 05:31:41 -0500
From: ChanDog21@aol.com
Subject: [Mystara] Sliders

Have any of you ever watched Sliders on FOX, It's funny, but all of us, DM's
and the like  have created this wondrous Multivers.  Not just with Mystara,
but with Grayhawk, Dark Sun, Forgotten Realms etc. and not just TSRinc but
all the other RPG’s from DBA Production (Cybergeneration) to White Wolf’s
(Wraith: The Oblivion).  I am completely in AWE when I set and contemplate
this. I guess that is as it should be.  Didn’t someone say, “All of the
Universe could fit into Gods eye and if we could see, just Gods eye in it’s
entirety, then we would surely go Mad.”  or something like ???

How many Realities are there . . . .  Food for thought. Ain’t role-playing
Grand.

Chandog21

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:56:02 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: Re: [Mystara] NPCs VIP

>From: David Keyser <davidk@Synopsys.COM>
>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:29:43 -0800
>To: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
>Subject: Re: [Mystara] NPCs VIP
>
>>  I have noticed something odd: nobody and no TSR supplement or adventure
modul>e has ever detailed or featured one of the greatest villains the Known
World ha>s ever known (possibly the most powerful one): Gart Nagan (but
probably you kno>w him under one of his aliases, namely Gargantua). Gee, a
wizard that is able 
>
>I had always hoped that TSR would produce a big mega-module to finish out the
>old Companion series of modules, something like 
>CM10 Gargantua Lives!
>
>Where the big G is planning to seize (Norworld, Brun, whatever) and the PCs
have
>to fight him and his personal armies of gargantuan orcs, trolls, and everything
>else.  His personal bodyguard would be made up of meks(non-gargantuan, unless
>the PCs are level 35 or higher).
>
>I always toyed with the idea of writing an adventure like this where Gargantua
>makes an alliance with an evil band of Dragons from Wyrmsteeth, led by a large
>amber dragon, who want to seize power in the Dragon lands and enslave all other
>races surrounding them.  It would be ideal for the 1004-1009 AC time period, as
>Wrath of Immortals says Norworld is in chaos at that time.  But it never got 
>past the idea stage.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:32:15 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Wands

 Can someone explain me this rule: only magic users can use wands, but as it
is stated in GAZ3, a magic user can create any object with any particular
spell in it, so my point is:
only a M-U can use a Wand of Fireballs, but he can also manifacture a Ring
of Fireballs that is exactly the same thing and which can be used by any
character class!
Hence my question: why only M-U can use wands?? I think it was probably a
restriction put in the Basic and Expert manuals because the wands had
powerful spells on them that would have made other charater classes too
powerful if they had the opportunity to use them, but with GAZ3 all the
basic rules blow up!
Tell me what u think

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:41:27 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Empire of Dorphin IV

 If u look at the map in the Master set u will notice that above the
Hagiarchy of Hule lies an immense empire named Empire of Dorphin IV: who is
this guy and why the chronicles of the Princess Ark don't mention him? And
above all, why the Known world countries know nothing of this immense
empire?? if anyone has ideas, let me know...
DM

Omne ignotum pro magnifico
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:04:50 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] TSR MPGN site

 Can anyone of you out there tell me what's happening today? I cannot reach
the Worlds directory at ftp.mpgn.com because it seems that the Gaming
directory is empty (??) Any explanations?
DM

Omne ignotum pro magnifico
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:06:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Scott Johnson <zagyg@io.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Empire of Dorphin IV

On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it wrote:

>  If u look at the map in the Master set u will notice that above the
> Hagiarchy of Hule lies an immense empire named Empire of Dorphin IV: who is
> this guy and why the chronicles of the Princess Ark don't mention him? And
> above all, why the Known world countries know nothing of this immense
> empire?? if anyone has ideas, let me know...
> DM

It's all explained in the first 'Voyages of the Princess Ark' article,
actually.  Essentially, Dorphin was the name of a gnomish head of a
workshop in Karamiekos.  As a prank, he often made complicated
arrangements to have messengers come from the lands to the far west,
bearing messages from 'his esteemed imperial cousin,' supposedly the
emperor of a vast empire, occupying many times the area of Alphatia.  The
article also explained how a rather ignorant Thyatian built the nations of
that world map in the Master's set out of whole cloth, and how this
Thyatian fell completely for the gnome's pranks.  Thus, in addition to his
other fictitious nations (the 'Empire of the Great Khan,' the 'Matriarchy
of Pelatan,' and so forth), he marked down this 'Empire of Dorphin IV,'
which no more exists than Bargle the Infamous's sense of fair play.

Hope this helps. 

- --
Scott Johnson |
zagyg@io.com  |            This space intentionally left blank.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:30:24 +0500
From: Aron Reif <areif@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Empire of Dorphin IV

At 03:41 PM 1/21/97 +0100, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it wrote:
> If u look at the map in the Master set u will notice that above the
>Hagiarchy of Hule lies an immense empire named Empire of Dorphin IV: who is
>this guy and why the chronicles of the Princess Ark don't mention him? And
>above all, why the Known world countries know nothing of this immense
>empire?? if anyone has ideas, let me know...
>DM
>
>Omne ignotum pro magnifico
>(That which is not known is enchanting)
>
>

Actually, the Princess Ark series DOES mention him.  Check out the very
first article, in issue #153.  It states that the map in the Masters set is
completely inaccurate.  The land masses are drawn correctly, but the
political boundaries aren't even remotely right.  Check out #12--the Empire
of Thyatis on that map ranges from it's current position all the way to the
top of the World.  We all know that it doesn't do that at all.  And speaking
of Dorfin IV--he was really a Gnomish King from Karameikos who would send
some of his followers into the Sind desert, then have them return with
messages from his great "imperial cousin to the west."  Apparently, he did
this just to impress the local barons.  Anyway, get Dragon issue #153, it
explains all the mistakes from that map in the Master's book.

Aron Reif
areif@vt.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:10:00 -0600
From: "GUILLORY: BRANT" <cah2774@texcom-hood.army.mil>
Subject: [Mystara] Dorphin IV Answer

Form: Memo
Text: (13 lines follow)
Very early on in the Princess Ark series in Dragon Magazine, the authors 
repudiate any existence of Dorphin IV or his empire.  I believe (but I don't 
have the mag in front of me...) that it was blamed on some rogue Alphatian 
cartographer who, lacking the truth behind the lands on his map, simply made 
up some countries and realms just to fill up his map.

Anybody using the Mystara map from rulebook covers is using a map that has 
been rendered inaccurate by the subsequent Princess Ark magazine articles.

Party on!

Brant
B1Bard@aol.com
Use Proportional Font: true

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:02:25 -0500 (EST)
From: BZuber5988@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Empire of Dorphin IV

Actually, the chronicles of the Princess Ark do mention the empire of Dorfin
the IV.  The very first episode of the series, when Haldemar is debunking the
"expert" map as full of fallacies and misinformation.  Haldemar explains that
there is no true empire of Dorfin IV above Hule, and that it was a joke by
the leader of the Karameikos gnomes to try and impress the surrounding human
lords (this leader's name is Dorfin as well).

But Haldemar has been wrong in the past, perhaps there is a huge gnomish
empire above Hule.  Which is a very frightening concept if these gnomes are
tinker gnomes like the skygnomes of Serraine!

Delarius

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:30:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Empire of Dorphin IV

On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it wrote:

>  If you look at the map in the Master set, you will notice that above
> the Hagiarchy of Hule lies an immense empire named Empire of Dorphin IV.
> Who is this guy and why don't the chronicles of the Princess Ark mention
> him? And above all, why do the Known world countries know nothing of
> this immense empire?? if anyone has ideas, let me know...

 I'm probably going to break copyright laws here, but here's the answer to
your question in an exerpt from Dragon #153, the first episode of the
Princess Ark. I would have paraphrased, but Haldemaar has a unique touch
that I wouldn't want to lose...

                            From the Journals of
                          PRINCE HALDEMAR OF HAAKEN
                    Lord Admiral of the Mightiest Empire
                       Captain of the Ever-Victorious
                                PRINCESS ARK
                        Imperial Explorer, etc, etc.
 
 NYXMIR 11, 1964 AY: I am astounded by the complete lack of interest in 
geographical matters on the part of Alphatia's younger mages. Worse, it
has been found that the geographical teachings offered at Eriadna High are 
based on the fallacies of a Thyatian lowlife! This general - without a 
doubt a failure in the Thyatian legions - retired after a shabby campaign 
in Thothia. There he stole an ancient map of this world from a pillaged 
temple. The map was but a simple continental outline with a few words here 
and there. Upon his return, this lowlife invented kingdoms and empires, 
then placed them on the map and wrote tome upon tome about them. His 
knowledge of ancient Nithian and his interest in the truth being what they 
were, nothing good came out of this ignorant barbarian's overactive 
imagination. He made a fortune selling his books, and many took them as
the final authority on the world.
 His errors were legion. Ridiculous assumptions were made about the size
of the Thyatian Empire. The map shows the limits of that empire stretching 
beyond the Wendarian Reaches, north of the Principalities of Glantri. 
Poppycock! There are at least a half-dozen countries between Thyatis and 
Glantri having nothing to do with Thyatis.
 You can forget about those absurd borders, too. These were in fact
various creases in the original crumpled map which that Thyatian dimwit
mistook for actual borders. The "Empire of the Great Khan," east of our
province of Esterhold, is another fantasy. There are indeed large steppes
there, but no Great Khan - we'd know about it by now!
 And, yes, about this Dorfin Empire: It was the joke of a certain gnomish 
king, the inventor of wondrous but totally useless contraptions, who went 
by the name of King Dorfin IV. His kingdom is, in truth, merely the 
workshop of a few hundred gnomes in the hills of Traladara. One of Dorf's 
favorite pastimes was to send loyal followers beyond the Sind Desert. 
There, they would pose as plenipotentaries of the imaginary "Empire of 
Dorfin IV," then hire local people to carry a sealed message back to the 
real King Dorfin. These strange messengers, obviously from a distant
place, seemed to make quite an impression on local Traladaran barons when
they brought the gnomish king those phony and pompous greetings from his 
"imperial cousin to the west." These messages hinted at the outrageous
size of this bogus empire, alleged to be twice the size of Alphatia! What 
nonsense! And the barons believed it, the fools.
 I shall skip the details on other equally false kingdoms such as 
"Vulcania" (that was the Thyatian general's wife's name), "Cestia" (his 
mistress), "Brasol" (his dog), "Tangor" (a brand of cheap beer found in
the streets of Newkirk), or "Zyxl" (a deceased gladiatorial hero whom the 
general claimed was also a fallen queen of that same nation). For all
this, I find that I grudgingly admire such a bold and irreverent joker.
After all, everyone fell for his fake encyclopedias.
 I propose that in the name of grand buffoonery, we keep these place
names, since they are now the ones with which laymen are most familiar,
but we should use them in a purely geographic sense. For example, let's do
away with the nation of Nentsun (an Ethengarian word for a Heldanner's arm
pit) and simply call that land the Nentsun Peninsula. Similarly, we'll
forget about the state of Izonda (Hin for "fruitcake" - it figures),
renaming that area the Desert of Izonda, since this is what is really
there.
 So be it! It is time to see for myself if this old Nithian map has any 
truth to it. I today obtained permission from her Imperial Majesty for the 
/Princess Ark/ be recommissioned for a last but glorious mission of 
exploration in the name of Our Illustrious Empire....

- --
Daniel Boese                                   dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:11:41 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Empire of Dorphin IV

On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it wrote:

>  If u look at the map in the Master set u will notice that above the
> Hagiarchy of Hule lies an immense empire named Empire of Dorphin IV: who is
> this guy and why the chronicles of the Princess Ark don't mention him? And
> above all, why the Known world countries know nothing of this immense
> empire?? if anyone has ideas, let me know...

Leroy- this might be a good question for the FAQ- this is at least the 
second time I've seen it come up, maybe the third.

For the record- There is no Dorphin IV. As Haldemar states in the very 
first episode of the Princess Ark (Dragon Magazine #153?) that it was a 
fabrication pulled off by King Dorphin IV (a gnomish king- see AC10) to 
have meessengers go all the way to the Sind desert and send messages to 
him (he probably invented the SASE to save himself the trouble, in later 
years) from his "imperial cousin to the East". It apparently made a big 
impression on Karameikan barons.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:30:08 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Empire of Dorphin IV

At 11.06 21/01/97 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it wrote:
>
>>  If u look at the map in the Master set u will notice that above the
>> Hagiarchy of Hule lies an immense empire named Empire of Dorphin IV: who is
>> this guy and why the chronicles of the Princess Ark don't mention him? And
>> above all, why the Known world countries know nothing of this immense
>> empire?? if anyone has ideas, let me know...
>> DM
>
>It's all explained in the first 'Voyages of the Princess Ark' article,
>actually.  Essentially, Dorphin was the name of a gnomish head of a
>workshop in Karamiekos.  As a prank, he often made complicated
>arrangements to have messengers come from the lands to the far west,
>bearing messages from 'his esteemed imperial cousin,' supposedly the
>emperor of a vast empire, occupying many times the area of Alphatia.  The
>article also explained how a rather ignorant Thyatian built the nations of
>that world map in the Master's set out of whole cloth, and how this
>Thyatian fell completely for the gnome's pranks.  Thus, in addition to his
>other fictitious nations (the 'Empire of the Great Khan,' the 'Matriarchy
>of Pelatan,' and so forth), he marked down this 'Empire of Dorphin IV,'
>which no more exists than Bargle the Infamous's sense of fair play.
>
>Hope this helps. 

I see... it seems to me only a dirty trick by TSR who suddenly changed the
whole world to fit in the development of their campaign (a good trick, but
definitely a trick) So what lies in that immense waste? Only goblinoids? And
what about Hyborea (there is a short story by Clark Ashton Smith called
Hyborea, if i don't remember wrong)?

------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #320
*****************************



mystara-digest	Thursday, January 23 1997	Volume 01 : Number 321




---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:53:17 +0100
From: "Simon Weidmann" <s93450@stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de> Subject: Re: [Mystara] Empire of Dorphin IV 

>If u look at the map in the Master set u will notice that above the Hagiarchy of Hule lies an immense empire named Empire of Dorphin IV: who 
is
>this guy and why the chronicles of the Princess Ark don't mention him? 
And
>above all, why the Known world countries know nothing of this immense empire?? if anyone has ideas, let me know... 

It is all explained in Dragon #153 (first part of the Princess Arc-series). Here it says, that the map from the Master-Set is no longer valid. Haldemar explains, that this map was found by an Thyatian general in a Nithian tomb during a campaign in Thotia. This general then invented a some countries, placed them on the map and wrote lots of books about them. He became very rich, selling tfese books and they were believed by many people (even taught at Eriadna High as real facts). I think this was done, because TSR wanted to explore the other regions (not covered in the GAZ-series) of the known world in greater detail (this is at least what the Princess Arc-series was made for) and they realized, that many of the names etc. on the old map didn't fit with what they wanted the world to be.
Dorphins Empire was much too large (and should be very influential as you mentioned) and and the size of the Thyatian Empire was also exaggerated (anyone noticed??).
So there are no countries like Dorphins Empire, the Empire of the Great Khan, Southold etc.
Several names, that were names for countries in the Master-Set (i.e. Brasol, Iozanda, Nentsun etc.) were changed into names of geographical features (in the RC they have become the desert of Iozanda, the Brasol range etc).
This means, that you should ignore the map from the Master-Set and simply go by the RC-map.

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:05:38 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu> Subject: Re: [Mystara] Empire of Dorphin IV 

On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it wrote: 

>I see... it seems to me only a dirty trick by TSR who suddenly changed the whole world to fit in the development of their campaign (a good trick, but definitely a trick) So what lies in that immense waste? Only goblinoids? And what about Hyborea (there is a short story by Clark Ashton Smith called Hyborea, if i don't remember wrong)?

More than one story- He has a whole series of short stories that take place there- though it's Hyperborea, and not Hyborea. I think Hyborea is from the Conan series (I think it's also the actual name of that region, like Pangaea is... if that statement makes any sense... :( 

At any rate, I've never read any of his Hyperborea stories, but they carry a similar theme to the Averoigne stories, as well as ties to the Cthulhu mythos- ie, a bunch of insane, wacky, black magic using mages, etc. I know that there is an anthology by the same name (Hyperborea) which contains all or most of CAS's hyperborea stories. It is available through Arkham House, which has a homepage somewhere on the net. I don't see why this wouldn't be a good choice to use as expansion info for this relatively undetailed area.

Also, note from GAZ10 and other sources, that Hyborea is a huge Humanoid area (the origination of most humanoid species) and as such there are likely huge tribes of them located there. 

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jan 1997 22:10:09 GMT
From: Matthew_Kammann@westtown.edu (Matthew Kammann) Subject: [Mystara] DUNE

Sayyyyyyy..
I was wondering if there was ever any material published about a set of rules or a roleplaying game based upon the novels of Frank Herbert's Dune series? Or is there a really obvious set of rules I could use to get basicly the same thing acomplished?
thanks.

-Matthew "Iago" Kammann


" I shall not fear, fear is the mind killer" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:52:52 -0800 (PST) From: Leroy Van Camp III <van891@uidaho.edu> Subject: [Mystara] General FAQ (was Empire of Dorphin IV) 

On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: 

[stuff on dorphin snipped]

>Leroy- this might be a good question for the FAQ- this is at least the second time I've seen it come up, maybe the third. 

True, but...
At this point there really isn't any one official Mystara FAQ. There is a Mystara Mailing List FAQ, but that isn't on Mystara in general. 
A while back someone wrote up and posted their own version of a FAQ (there name escapes me). I don't recall the response it got. 
IMO, a good, well written (and the one that was posted may have been well written; I don't recall) general Mystara FAQ would be Damn Cool. But if it is ever going to happen, it would take effort by a lot of people on the list, especially for the sucke...er, person who volunteered to organize and maintain it.


Leroy Van Camp III
owner-mystara-l@io.com	van891@uidaho.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
MST3K

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 1:33:52 EST
From: Dave Brohman <dbrohman@chat.carleton.ca> Subject: [Mystara] + Darkness Below Glantri + 

I must admit, I run an AD&D Mystaran campaign rather than an OD&D one, so anyone who dislikes the AD&D version of Mystara neen't read on. 

In the Glantri boxed set, specifically the Test of Darkness module (a stinker), we find that below the Great School are a series of old tunnels known as the wizardwarrens. Much of these warrens are under the cloak of an impenetrable darkness that is tied to the radiance. 

Judging from the map in the module, the radius of the darkness, while not overly massive, is still very, very large. Now, assuming that the darkness, which is growing slowly but constantly, is spherical in shape, should it not have expanded above the surface of the city, considering that the warrens are not nearly so far below ground as the radius of the sphere?

Also, could someone post a list of alignments of some of the more prevalent immortals (Halav, Zirchev, Alphaks, Rad, etc...) 

Thanks.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Dave Brohman	E-Mail : dbrohman@chat.carleton.ca
Carleton University

Featuring Alexi Sayle as the Balowski Family. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:29:16 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Mystara Astronomy

About Mystara and the planets of its system, i have a proposal: why don't we name those planets after Immortals who are followed on Mystara? The main problem would only be which astronomical system we have to take into account: our real system or the one described in the original Immortal set? Here's my proposal:

Earthlike system

Mercury = Rathanos (or Ixion)
Venus = Valerias
Mystara
Mars = Vanya
Jupiter = Odin (since he's the Allfather) Saturn = Khoronus
Uranus = (well, this is everybody's guess, but i suggest an Immortal of Thought or Matter, let's say Korotiku or Ka or Koryis) Neptune = Protius, the Old Man of the Sea (or Calitha Starbrow for elves) Pluto = Thanatos

Old Immortal Set System

Venus = Valerias
Mystara
Damocles = (this planet will blow up in the future and its pieces will form Mercury and Pluto, so i suggest Alphatia or Alphaks for this doomed planet for obvious reasons)
Jupiter = Odin
Saturn = Khoronus
Uranus = (Korotiku, Ka or Koryis)
Neptune = Proteus
Charon = Hel

PS: who gave Mystara its name? I don't recall a Mystara immortal nor it is ever mentioned a Mystara NPC vip that could have represented its whole population, so who is this Mystara? Maybe it means earth in Thyatian or elvish or another ancient language?
DM

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola' (That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:43:35 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Corona

From all the hints in the gazetteers and especially in GAZ2 we know that Ranivorus' and Thanatos' machinations led to Nithia's destruction, but if you examine closely GAZ2 you'll notice this line (quote by memory): "[...] Thanatos (and his secret ally Corona)[...]" (think it was in the mini adveture the Dead Places). Hey, guys: who is this powerful Immortal only briefly mentioned in one GAZ who helped the mighty Thanatos to destroy Nithia? He/she sounds very powerful if he/she remained for so long undiscovered by other Immortals (it is stated it was Thanatos' SECRET ally): i have placed him/her in the Sphere of Entropy among the high ranking (Eternal or Hierarch), but i don't have any other clues about his/her personality or goals. Anyone willing to enlighten us? DM

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola' (That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:18:50 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Top 3 and Worst 3 List 

Ok, here's my suggestion: why don't we write our 3 most favourite products from TSR for Mystara line (OD&D and AD&D - Red Steel not included) and the 3 we most dislike and then i'll make a list, just to know others' impressions!(if u want u can also make comments) 

I begin:

Top 3:
1) Champions of Mystara (must for all Mystara's fans) 2) GAZ3 Glantri (Bruce Heard's best work ever!) 3) PC2 Top Ballista (Carl Sargent's book has new interesting rules and above all it's funny and well written)

Worst 3
1) Glantri: Kingdom of Magic (if you liked the OD&D gaz, then you'll hate this) 2) GAZ4: Kingdom of Ierendi (this is everything you want, but definitely not a gazetteer)
3) DM Survival Kit (if you have no ideas, lie in bed and sleep, DO NOT WRITE this kind of stuff!)

DM

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola' (That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:34:59 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Zyxl

Since there is no real minotaur land except Immortals Arm realm of enduks, i wondered if we can place on Zyxl a kingdom of minotaurs, the renegade that fled from Nimmur and established themselves on this out-of-the-way isle (much like Dragonlance Taladas). Just a thought (the name Zyxl is so intriguing..)
DM

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola' (That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:39:09 -0500 (EST) From: BZuber5988@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Corona

Corona is the entropic immortal of overindulgence. Her followers are the ancestors of the Savage Coast Ispans, still residing in Kerendas. She contributed to Nithia's downfall by supplying endless supplies of a bitter tasting beer to the populace, that became a popular drink named after this evil immortal. With many of Nithia's nobles constantly drunk or hungover, Thanatos' corruption of this ancient state was made much easier. 

The modern day Coronites meet in taverns to worship their goddess. Often horrible secret rites are performed in back rooms or in basements to taverns amidst wine, beer and ale casks. They drink Corona's vile brew and eat little snacky dishes known as tapas, such as small snails in a butter sauce. 
They wear simple cloaks known as ponchos and large brimed hats known as sombreros to conduct thier evil rites.

Much of the recent trouble and unrest in Thyatis is due in no small part to the resurgence of Corona's cult and their spread of Corona's beer to the populace of Thyatis. Not since the Zzonga fruit has Thyatis known such an insidious threat!

Really.

Delarius (who is feeling naughty today)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:11:18 -0600
From: Reg <reginald@siu.com>
Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] Red Steel Almanac 

For the Almanac, why not have each writer introduce a character that will talk about that area, culture, magic, whatever. That way more information can be shared about viewpoints and character styles in play.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:14:47 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu> Subject: Re: [Mystara] Corona

On Wed, 22 Jan 1997 BZuber5988@aol.com wrote: 

>The modern day Coronites meet in taverns to worship their goddess. Often horrible secret rites are performed in back rooms or in basements to taverns amidst wine, beer and ale casks. They drink Corona's vile brew and eat little snacky dishes known as tapas, such as small snails in a butter sauce. 
TThey wear simple cloaks known as ponchos and large brimed hats known as sombreros to conduct thier evil rites.

However, she has recently begun to lose a number of her followers to a relative newcomer Immortal, known as Tequila. Tequila, in life, was Vilaverdan named Jose Cuervo. He recently attained Immortality under the sponsorship of Faunus (a well known reveler and drunkard), and has begun to influence Corona's followers away from her through the introduction of a drink, named after Tequila, which they use to celebrate this Immortal. Tequila is highly more intoxicating than Corona, and tends to be far more flexible in its usage- it is known to be an ingredient in a number of alcoholic concoctions, notably Margaritas (named for Tequila's mortal wife).

The worship of Tequila has begun to spread across the Savage Coast, and in Kerendas. Their primary religious song, "Tequila", despite only containing the words of the same name as its lyrics, has a popular beat, and is quickly becoming a favorite song among more secular peoples of the Known World as well.

>Delarius (who is feeling naughty today) 

(I echo that sentiment. :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:10:00 -0600
From: "GUILLORY: BRANT" <cah2774@texcom-hood.army.mil> Subject: [Mystara] Mystara FAQ inbound

Form: Memo
Text: (10 lines follow)
Bruce cross-posted it from this message board onto the board on AOL. I'll find it and repost it from home for everybody, but I won't be home until late tomorrow afternoon, so if ya'll can wait, I'll get it to you. 

LT Brant D. Guillory
3rd Platoon, TF 1-40 AR
CAH2774@texcom-hood.army.mil
PH (408) 386-2126
DSN 686-2126/8

Use Proportional Font: true

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:19:52 +0500
From: s9406058@bohm.anu.edu.au (Stan)
Subject: [Mystara] Immortals of the Known World - Nearly Immortals 

Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote

>Plus there is still any amount of work to be done on the definitive Immortal Catalogue (for want of a better name), wherein we have been attempting to list the important dates of the Immortals (and I don't mean who's going out with whom...) such as their 'birth date' (when they became Immortal), as well as possible guesses, etc. on their formal mortal identities, in order to try and link them more closely with the world of Mystara.

To further aid such a project I thought it might be good to compile a list of all those mortals who in the campaign are currently questing for Immortality. Also added are any beings of an exalted status who may be confused with immortals.

IMMORTALS OF THE KNOWN WORLD - NEARLY IMMORTALS 

Barimoor: MU36 questing for immortality in the sphere of Energy. GAZ 2 gives a detailed account of where Barimoor's plans for immortality stand as at 1000 AC. It also guesses that it will take about two centuries for the plans to be completed. (GAZ 2, page 49)

Chuarbhidhe: Chuarbhidhe is a pooka who has attained an exalted status and is probably the Monster Ruler for pookas. (PC1, page 53) 

Etienne d'Amberville (Rad). Although I do not have Mark of Amber it seems that one of the outcomes could leave Etienne as a mortal who would then be subsequently questing for immortality.

Kaladan (The Masterharper): M36/WTI21 questing for immortality in the sphere of Entropy. There is no indication on how long Kaladan has been questing for immortality nor how long he has to go, most of the problem here of course stems from a lack of information on the path to Entropic immortality. (PC4, page 6)

Leo Variantia (Shapechanger): F34/T18/M14/C13/WTI36/WFO13/WBA9/WBE10 uesting for immortality in the sphere of Matter. Leo has been questing since about 500 AC and as of 1000 AC is on his final quest. There is every possibility that by the present, 1014 AC, that he has achieved immortality. (PC4, page 8) 

Mylertendal: MU36 questing for immortality in the sphere of Energy. She started questing for immortality about 900 AC although she is no hurry to attain it. Because she has a magically extended life of about 255 years she quite possibly died during the Week Without Magic 1009 AC and there is a good possibility that she may not have been subsequently wished back to life. (DotE book 1, page 46)

Travestis: 34TT/10D questing for immortality in the sphere of Entropy. Travestis is a treant who is part of an adventure seed in PC1. The idea of the adventure is to stop Travestis blighting part of the Canolbarth Forest and thus completing the testimony part of his quest. The end of the little adventure would probably have seen the death of Travestis. I on the other hand prefer the little adventure to never have happened. If Travestis had a hand in the Shadow Elves invasion of Alfheim then this may be considered to be completing the testimony part of the path, I believe that the negative view of the help he had in achieving the testimony would be offset by the larger than necessary area of blight caused. 

If Travestis is allowed to survive careless adventurers and also have the blighting of Canolbarth Forest to account for his testimony then that leaves him in 1007 AC with only his task to complete before he achieves immortality. There is no indication how long this would take. (PC1 part II, page 15) 


Shawn Stanley
I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran
s9406058@student.anu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:18:22 +0500
From: s9406058@bohm.anu.edu.au (Stan)
Subject: [Mystara] Immortals of the Known World - Other Immortals 

This is a list, with brief descriptions of those immortals who did not even make it into the "Other Immortals" section of WotI. The list is by no means comprehensive as I do not own all Mystaran products, therefore any news of omissions would be greatly accepted at s9406058@student.anu.edu.au 

The information presented contains a lot of my own ideas, and are generally not based on the mythological views of these beings (as I dislike this practice), so any disputes as to my interpretations or views are welcomed. Also I have changed some of the information presented in some of the sources. 

IMMORTALS OF THE KNOWN WORLD - OTHER IMMORTALS 

Father Time: Hierarch, Sphere of Time. This immortal is merely Khoronus under a different name. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41) 

Grammaton: Hierarch, Sphere of Thought. This immortal is the identity by which Noumena is known to sphinxes. If this is taken to be so then it implies that sphinxes have only existed since 500 BC at the earliest, as this is when Noumena attained immortality. Noumena created sphinxes to help mortals become more like him, puzzle solvers. Even if Noumena is not Grammaton then it seems clear that Grammaton is an immortal of the Sphere of Thought. (PC2, page 25)

Grim Reaper: Hierarch, Sphere of Time. This immortal is actually Thanatos as he is known in some areas. Thanatos is not a Hierarch of the Sphere of Time, this is only an artefact of the belief of the people to who he is known as the Grim Reaper. To these people death is generally taken more pragmatically, the sages who know of such things in these areas see the Grim Reaper as belonging to the Sphere of Time. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41)

Gylgarid: Initiate(5)/Temporal?, Sphere of Matter/Entropy?. Gylgarid is an immortal who has strong ties to minotaurs, though is also worshiped by many northern tribesmen (X13, 3) which assumedly means Heldanners or Vestlanders. This then implies that Gylgarid was either a minotaur, an immortal who created minotaurs or a mortal who killed lots of minotaurs. A minotaurs head is the symbol of Gylgarid (X13, 18) though this need not mean he is a minotaur he could be like Ruaidhri Hawkbane and have taken the likeness of the animal he killed as his symbol. Though it also stated that the minotaur is the likeness of Gylgarid (X13, 27), though it seems odd how "many" northern tribesmen would worship a minotaur. The final piece of evidence is that Gylgarid is described as a chaotic barbarian god of uncertain origin (X13, 17) whose followers even seems to be feared by local people (X13, 17). 

I would contend that Gylgarid is a mortal who killed a lot of minotaurs for a very personal reason (much like Ruaidhri Hawkbane) and the whole thing sent him a bit mad, nevertheless he was pretty proud of himself. He somehow attained immortality in the Sphere of Entropy (the rules for attaining immortality in this sphere have always seemed a little sketchy) and the whole experience of attaining immortality sent him over the edge. He took the minotaur as his symbol and seems to prefer his temples adorned with the figure and even acting as guardians. I think that Gylgarid was someone from this region of Mystara which accounts for it being his base of operation, though I think that he is not in fact worshipped by "many" northern tribesmen but perhaps only by a few similarly mad individuals, which is why his worship is not prominent in the northern regions, though he may become so. If this were all so then Gylgarid would probably not be a powerful immortal which is why I place him at Initiate(5) level, though X13 seems to imply the Gylgarid has some power so perhaps some Entropic immortal is working behind the scenes pulling his strings - though this is only conjecture.

Though all the above may not be so and the next most likely scenario is the Gylgarid is a minotaur who achieved immortality in the Sphere of Matter, and would probably therefore be a Temporal. Though he has some unsavoury followers.

Hymir: Celestial(16), Sphere of Time. Hymir was a chronomancer from Sundsvall about 200 BC. He was the Archchancellor of the University of Sundsvall. Not having any children he attained immortality by increasing the size of the university, particularly the chronomancy department, and also ensuring its survival through time, his final trial being to perfectly rebuild the university after the sinking of Alphatia. Hymir was always fond of his drink and it is no wonder that the chronomancy department is known for the best ale in Alphatia, it should also be noted that a significantly high number of the archchancellors subsequent to Hymir have also come from the chronomancy department - most of them of course were also fond of their drink. Since reaching immortality Hymir has remained interested in the affairs of Alphatia as a whole though he also found many allies in the northmen pantheon who are also fond of their drink. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41, and Master DM's book Artifacts chapter)

Idraote: Celestial(16), Sphere of Energy. Idraote was a mage on the planet of Alphatia who attained immortality a long time before its destruction. He followed his people to Mystara although he is not overly prominent in the affairs of Alphatia. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41, and Master DM's book Artifacts chapter)

Idris: Novice(2), Sphere of Entropy. Although the symbol of Idris is a black dragon (X11, 17) I do not believe that she was a dragon in real life (a thought which will be expanded upon in a later post). Instead Idris was a mage from Glantri who was a member of the craft of Dracology. She attained high mastery in this craft and was fond of turning herself into a black dragon and harassing people in Glantri. She sometimes travelled to the north during these excursions and harassed people in the Realm of Wendar. Whilst on such an excursion she caused the people in the village of Geron to become interested in her whilst she tore through a Wendarian patrol. Some of the people began to worship the dragon. Idris went on to attain immortality in the sphere of Entropy who were impressed by her savagery. Upon attaining immortality she noticed the attentions the people of Geron, in who she is now actively cultivating a following for herself. 

Ilmarinen: Celestial(15), Sphere of Matter. Ilmarinen was a Kogolor dwarf craftsman by the name of Tordur. He was sponsored to immortality in 200 BC by Garl Glittergold who was very impressed with his sense of art and his practicality. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41, and Master DM's book Artifacts chapter)

Korrigans, The: Empyreal(21), Sphere of Energy. The Korrigans are a group of nine elves who lived in the forest areas in the area which would become Wendar, although they lived there a long time ago even before the coming of the Antalians. They all adventured together in mortal life but parted when each chose to attain immortality. Unbeknownst to them they were all being sponsored by the same immortal who enjoyed the precedence that he was setting. The nine elves all achieved immortality within a few centuries of each other and then resumed their friendship. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41, and Master DM's book Artifacts chapter) 

Light: Hierarch, Sphere of Energy. This immortal is merely Ixion under a different name. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41) 

Mother Earth: Hierarch, Sphere of Matter. This immortal is merely Terra under a different name. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41) 

Old Nick: Hierarch, Sphere of Entropy. This immortal is merely Thanatos under a different name. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41) 

News: Hierarch(36), Sphere of Thought. News is an old immortal who lived in the city of Blackmoor. She acted to inform the citizens of Blackmoor against their actions by collecting any information she could find and then talking to the citizens of Blackmoor. Although she was an excellent orator she had not swayed enough people by her knowledge by the time of the Great Rain of Fire. Although she died in the ensuing cataclysm the immortal Diulanna was so impressed by her actions that she sponsored News to immortality. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41) 

Night: Hierarch, Sphere of Entropy. This immortal is merely Nyx under a different name. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41) 

Ninsun: Empyreal(19), Sphere of Energy. Ninsun was a winged minotaur in the ancient land of Nimmur. She attained immortality in the sphere of Energy with Ixion as her sponsor. Since attaining immortality she has shown little interest in the affairs of enduks. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41, and Master DM's book Artifacts chapter) 

Ouranos: Hierarch(36), Sphere of Matter. Ouranos is a very old being and unbeknownst to the other immortals is actually no longer an immortal. Millions of years ago a being existed which knew itself as Ssaa Kraat. Ssaa Kraat attained immortality under a long gone immortal of the sphere of Matter. Ssaa Kraat rose through the ranks of immortality and became the Reigning Hierarch in the sphere of Matter. Not happy with this position Ssaa Kraat reincarnated itself as a mortal in the hopes of learning more about the universe. The new mortal identity which also existed long before humankind knew itself as Ouranos. Ouranos achieved immortality in the sphere of Matter and also became the Reigning Hierarch in the sphere of Matter. So doing Ouranos learnt of the previous existence of Ssaa Kraat. Displeased with the outcome Ouranos decided to do as Ssaa Kraat had done - to become mortal again. So doing Ouranos passed beyond the barrier and went to exist with the Old Ones. The being known as Ouranos is known to the present group of immortals as an ancient being which, as far as they know, has gone to walk amongst the planes. Although there are a number of cultures on Mystara and throughout the Multiverse who know of Ssaa Kraat and the ultimate knowledge which is attained by that being. Ssaa Kraat is known by many names including Zagrat, Saccrat and Sakkrat. Ouranos is not tied in with any of these legends. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41; Master DM's book Artifacts chapter and The Highest Science by Gareth Roberts) 

Pyro: Hierarch, Sphere of Energy. This immortal is merely Ixion under a different name. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41) 

Saturnius: Celestial(15), Sphere of Energy. Coloc was a boy born in 3746 BC in a tribe which has previously been assimilated by the Oltecs. He grew up resenting the form of imprisonment which the Oltecs practiced. One day he left the tribe and adventured around Mystara. He attained immortality in the sphere of Energy and since then has acted as a patron of freedom. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41, and Master DM's book Artifacts chapter)

Simurgh: Celestial(15), Sphere of Time. Simurgh was a member of a race of roc like birds which were the ancestors of present day rocs. Simurgh attained immortality in the sphere of Time and as part of the trial he averted the death of his people from water, ice and fire. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41, and Master DM's book Artifacts chapter) 

Skuld: Celestial(14), Sphere of Entropy. Skuld was a Hill Giant who hated his existence and hated his parents for bringing him into it. As a result he killed them, the not happy with this he decided to kill his relatives. Although the science of genealogy as practiced by Hill Giants is not very precise so Skuld killed any Hill Giant he came across. So impressed with his record of killing Skuld was sponsored to the sphere of Entropy. He now acts against all giants although he still particularly hates Hill Giants. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41, and Master DM's book Artifacts chapter)

Solarios: Hierarch, Sphere of Energy. This immortal is merely Ixion under a different name. (Original Immortals set, DM's Guide, page 41) 

EVEN MORE IMMORTALS

These immortals don't have anything written about them. 

Oleyan (GAZ 9, page 44) this is a junior immortal, probably Initiate, who is trapped within the Carven Oak.

Creator of the Carven Oak (GAZ 9, page 44). 

Creator of the Faenare, sphere of Thought (PC2, page 6). 

Creator of gremlins, sphere of Entropy (PC2, page 13). 

Creator of harpies, sphere of Entropy (PC2, page 18). 

Any of the above four immortals could easily be one of the already known immortals.


Shawn Stanley
I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran
s9406058@student.anu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:27:17 -0500 (EST) From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Zyxl

In a message dated 97-01-22 08:48:09 EST, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it writes: 

<< Since there is no real minotaur land except Immortals Arm realm of enduks, 
i wondered if we can place on Zyxl a kingdom of minotaurs, the renegade that fled from Nimmur and established themselves on this out-of-the-way isle (much like Dragonlance Taladas). Just a thought (the name Zyxl is so intriguing..) >>

I think there was some discussion of placing an Amazonian/Japanese culture there. But I am sure there are many other suitable locations for a minotaur realm.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:49:46 -0500 (EST) From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Astronomy 

It is probably not necessary to provide names for the Mystaran equivalents of Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto -- after all, how many Mystarans have actually seen them?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:20:48 +0100
From: "Erik Sieurin" <BV9521@utb.hb.se>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Astronomy 

Re: the "outer planets": With all that magic, and with astrology being an important science, I cannot help to think that any "outer planets" have already been found.

However, their names may be a different style: the original names are certainly Thyatian or Alphatian in the Known World (and probably very different elsewhere), but the newly discovered planets can have name taken from Immortals (or even emperors or the like) named from Immortals not known by those people who gave the planets always known their first name.

Since I do not think Odin was originally worshipped by the Thyatians, I do not think his name will appear among the planets (though the seamen of the Northern Reaches will probably name some big planet after him).

If the planets were named by the Thyatians, and the solar system of Mystara is similar to Earths - but why should it, really?: 

"Mercury" = Valerias (so she'll be close to the Sun, her lover) "Venus"=Protius (he's an early one, didn't know where to put him) Mystara (the visible Moon is named Matera - I'd preferred Asterius) "Mars"= Tarastia (red like fire, and she's of Energy) "Jupiter"=Vanya (big and imposing, and Vanya is the Number One for the Thyatians)
"Saturn"=Khoronus
"Uranus"= some new-fangled, important Immortal - Odin, perhaps "Neptunus" = same as the above - Halav? Koryis? Thor? "Pluto"=Thanatos

But then, the planets may have been named by the Alphatians, or the Nithians - both interested in astronomy/logy. With the Alphatians, most bets are off - they have appearently never been interested that much in the Immortals, so I do not know whether they would name heavenly bodies after them. 

With the Nithians, well...
"Mercury" = Horon (Ixion, closest to the Sun) "Venus"=Iris (Valerias, close to her lover) Mystara
"Mars"= Ra (Rathanos - also a sun guy, I know, but more fire than light, and if the Mystaran Mars is red...) "Jupiter"= Ptahr (Kagyar - big thing, probably built with someone who likes building things)
"Saturn"=Pflarr (well, the only one left of the Big Nithian Immortals, and as he is mysterious, he might fit the bill being not as easy to see)

Although Nithia was gone, and the memory erased, the names might have been allowed to live on.

The three outer planets might not have been discovered by the Nithians, the getting names from the Alphatians: "Uranus"= Koryis
"Neptunus"= Razud
"Pluto"= Alphaks
(Alphatia herself wasn't an established Immortal by then - perhaps wasn't Alphaks that either, but naming a small, dark, ugly planet after a hated guy seems perfectly OK to me) 

Or if the Thyatians did it:
"Uranus"=Vanya
"Neptunus"=Protius
"Pluto"=Thanatos

Confused yet? Damn, then I'll have to babble more! 

As noted, this is the state in Alphatia/Eastern Brun. Other places may well have other name for the planets. The Northmen were mentioned above. The Elves surely have Elven names for the stars and planets. I do not know if the Dwarves are interested that much in the sky, but if, they wouldn't use no damn human names. The Hin are mighty seafarers - they might have named the stars and planets used to navigate.

Erik Sieurin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:48:03 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Astronomy 

At 16.20 23/01/97 +0100, you wrote:

>Re: the "outer planets": With all that magic, and with astrology being an important science, I cannot help to think that any "outer planets" have already been found.

>However, their names may be a different style: the original names are certainly Thyatian or Alphatian in the Known World (and probably very different elsewhere), but the newly discovered planets can have name taken from Immortals (or even emperors or the like) named from Immortals not known by those people who gave the planets always known their first name.

Since you rightly said Astronomy has ever been an important science and that with the powerful spells available it is very probable that almost every planet of the solar system has been discovered, than what are those "newly discovered planets" you're referring to? IMHO Thyatians and Alphatians have already discovered all the planets in our system, so there should be only Alphatian and Thyatian names for them (Nithian had their names, yes, but they are a dead race and thus it is no longer important to know how they called the planets). Moreover, since now Alphatia has sunk, Thyatis is the leading country and it's better to go along with its names and designations (it is a mere more practical: i know halflings and elves have their names, even Minrothaddans and Ierendi could very well have theirs, but that wuold only overcomplicate the matter! I thereby suggest we take the Thyatian names) 

>Since I do not think Odin was originally worshipped by the Thyatians, I do not think his name will appear among the planets (though the seamen of the Northern Reaches will probably name some big planet after him).
Actually, it was the first BIG Immortal i could think about, so i named Jupiter after it...

>If the planets were named by the Thyatians, and the solar system of Mystara is similar to Earths - but why should it, really?: 
Since Mystara is earthlike pangea, i think we should...:) I gave the names according to the relationship between real world gods and Mystara immortals, not thinking about fire or earth bodies... 

>"Mercury" = Valerias (so she'll be close to the Sun, her lover) 
Good point... I said Rathanos cause Mercury was a fiery body and the closest thing to what Rathanos thinks Perfection is, but Valerias will do, provided all people know that Ixion and her are lovers: do the clerics know this? Also Rathanos could be a heritage from the dead civilization of Nithia... 

>"Venus"=Protius (he's an early one, didn't know where to put him) 
Venus is Valerias, but if we name Mercury after her, then Protius is good for Venus, which is indeed a water body! 

>Mystara (the visible Moon is named Matera - I'd preferred Asterius) 
As you like it! Since it's invisible nobody will notice the difference :) Mystara can also be Ordana or Terra or Djea, as you like it (i prefer Mystara since it seems more neutral to Immortals... no Immortals' land, if you pardon me the expression...:))

>"Mars"= Tarastia (red like fire, and she's of Energy) 
Someone else proposed Thor, and maybe it's a better choice for 2 reasons: 1) i suggested Vanya cause as Mars che is the immortal of war and conquest, but Thor is also patron of war and likely to be followed also in Thyatis 2) Mars is red like Energy as you said, so Thor (who is from Sphere of Energy and higher ranking than Tarastia) is the real appropriate choice! 

>"Jupiter"=Vanya (big and imposing, and Vanya is the Number One for the Thyatians)
Agree 100%! Everybody agree?

>"Saturn"=Khoronus
That's good: the same personality, the same immortal 

>"Uranus"= some new-fangled, important Immortal - Odin, perhaps 
Since Odin is not represented, it would be good, but as i said before, it should not be a new immortal, since i think the thyatians already knew the planet

>"Neptunus" = same as the above - Halav? Koryis? Thor? 
Definitely no! It should be someone related with water or time, or maybe thought... Asterius?

>"Pluto"=Thanatos
Everybody agrees here?

So IMHO the debate is open on Uranus and Neptune: any good suggestions (remember, Thyatian or Alphatian pantheon!) 

>Confused yet? Damn, then I'll have to babble more! 

>As noted, this is the state in Alphatia/Eastern Brun. Other places may well have other name for the planets. The Northmen were mentioned above. The Elves surely have Elven names for the stars and planets. I do not know if the Dwarves are interested that much in the sky, but if, they wouldn't use no damn human names. The Hin are mighty seafarers - they might have named the stars and planets used to navigate.

>Erik Sieurin

As i said before, these are good points, but do not overcomplicate things that can be dealt with easily: only Thyatian-Alphatian names, OK? 

Omne ignotum pro magnifico
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

End of mystara-digest V1 #321
*****************************


mystara-digest        Monday, January 27 1997        Volume 01 : Number 322




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:26:59 +0100
From: "Erik Sieurin" <BV9521@utb.hb.se>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Astronomy

> Since you rightly said Astronomy has ever been an important science and that
> with the powerful spells available it is very probable that almost every
> planet of the solar system has been discovered, than what are those "newly
> discovered planets" you're referring to? IMHO Thyatians and Alphatians have
> already discovered all the planets in our system, so there should be only
> Alphatian and Thyatian names for them (Nithian had their names, yes, but
> they are a dead race and thus it is no longer important to know how they
> called the planets).
The Romans are a dead race and what they called the planets of our 
solar system is no longer important... :-)

>  
> >Since I do not think Odin was originally worshipped by the Thyatians, 
> >I do not think his name will appear among the planets (though the 
> >seamen of the Northern Reaches will probably name some big planet 
> >after him).
> Actually, it was the first BIG Immortal i could think about, so i named
> Jupiter after it...
But he is NOT a big Immortal among the Thyatians, or, he was in no 
way a big Immortal when the planets where discovered.
My point was this: the inner planets were surely already discovered 
when the Thyatian Empire was founded, but the outer planets may not 
have been. Then they could have gotten their names from "newer" 
Immortals, unlike the old traditional Thyatian ones.
BTW, since the old Thyatian barbarians were good sailors, they almost 
certainly had discovered all those inner planets by themselves.

> 
> >If the planets were named by the Thyatians, and the solar system of 
> >Mystara is similar to Earths - but why should it, really?:
> Since Mystara is earthlike pangea, i think we should...:)
I see, and the Hollow World became Pellucidar somewhere along the 
way
> I gave the names according to the relationship between real world gods and
> Mystara immortals, not thinking about fire or earth bodies...
> 
> >"Mercury" = Valerias (so she'll be close to the Sun, her lover)
> Good point... I said Rathanos cause Mercury was a fiery body and the closest
> thing to what Rathanos thinks Perfection is, but Valerias will do, provided
> all people know that Ixion and her are lovers: do the clerics know this?
For that point, do they know about the Spheres? Do they know about 
Immortal ranks? I think the myths and stories about the Immortals 
will concern the actions and relationships of the Immortals far more 
than they concern spheres, actual ranks and such things - they are of 
importance to the Immortals themselves, but IMC clerics wouldn't have 
a clue what the ranks were, and those mystically oriented orders who 
understood the concept of the spheres of power might still not know 
what spheres certain Immortals belong to.
> Also Rathanos could be a heritage from the dead civilization of Nithia... 
Like Iris (Valerias).
> >"Venus"=Protius (he's an early one, didn't know where to put him)
> Venus is Valerias, but if we name Mercury after her, then Protius is good
> for Venus, which is indeed a water body!

> 
> >Mystara (the visible Moon is named Matera - I'd preferred Asterius)
> As you like it! Since it's invisible nobody will notice the difference :)
Damned, missed that! Who the devil is Patera, BTW?
> Mystara can also be Ordana or Terra or Djea, as you like it (i prefer
> Mystara since it seems more neutral to Immortals... no Immortals' land, if
> you pardon me the expression...:))
I think Ordana is a Sylvan word, Terra or Djaea are Thyatian words 
for "Earth", but "Mystara" means "world".
> 
> >"Mars"= Tarastia (red like fire, and she's of Energy)
> Someone else proposed Thor, and maybe it's a better choice for 2 reasons:
> 1) i suggested Vanya cause as Mars che is the immortal of war and conquest,
> but Thor is also patron of war and likely to be followed also in Thyatis
> 2) Mars is red like Energy as you said, so Thor (who is from Sphere of
> Energy and higher ranking than Tarastia) is the real appropriate choice!
Thor is not an original god of the Thyatians, unlike Tarastia (which 
ought to be important in an empire fixated on law). Thor is 
worshipped by people who take after the old Thyatian habit of 
adopting the traits of neighbouring cultures, the Northmen in this 
case. "What do you mean, the uncouth wargod of those primitives up 
north is of "higher rank" than the Great And Holy Mistress Of 
Justice?! Burn him!".
>  
> >"Jupiter"=Vanya (big and imposing, and Vanya is the Number One for 
> >the Thyatians)
> Agree 100%! Everybody agree?
> 
> >"Saturn"=Khoronus
> That's good: the same personality, the same immortal
> 
> >"Uranus"= some new-fangled, important Immortal - Odin, perhaps
> Since Odin is not represented, it would be good, but as i said before, it
> should not be a new immortal, since i think the thyatians already knew the
> planet
> 
> >"Neptunus" = same as the above - Halav? Koryis? Thor?
> Definitely no! It should be someone related with water or time, or maybe
> thought... Asterius?
> 
> >"Pluto"=Thanatos
> Everybody agrees here?
> 
> So IMHO the debate is open on Uranus and Neptune: any good suggestions
> (remember, Thyatian or Alphatian pantheon!)
> 
> >Confused yet? Damn, then I'll have to babble more!
> >
> >As noted, this is the state in Alphatia/Eastern Brun. Other places 
> >may well have other name for the planets. The Northmen were mentioned 
> >above. The Elves surely have Elven names for the stars and planets. I 
> >do not know if the Dwarves are interested that much in the sky, but 
> >if, they wouldn't use no damn human names. The Hin are mighty 
> >seafarers - they might have named the stars and planets used to 
> >navigate.
> >
> >Erik Sieurin
> 
> As i said before, these are good points, but do not overcomplicate things
> that can be dealt with easily: only Thyatian-Alphatian names, OK?
Exactly! Toss Odin or Thor out the window OR name planets after what 
they where called by Thyatians worshipping them in the olden times 
(they are culturally  related to the Antalians, after all).

> 
> Omne ignotum pro magnifico
> (That which is not known is enchanting)
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:16:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Leroy Van Camp III <van891@uidaho.edu>
Subject: [Mystara] A List of Immortals and Their Alignments for Dave

On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Dave Brohman wrote:


> Also, could someone post a list of alignments of some of the more prevalent
> immortals (Halav, Zirchev, Alphaks, Rad, etc...)

    Below is a repost of a list I posted quiet some time ago...

[Note that I probably wrote this list up on a spur-of-the-moment kind of
thing.  Even I may not agree with it all any more.]

    The following is a listing of the primary Immortals of Mystara, along
with a couple minor ones thrown in.  I wrote this up when converting
Mystara over to AD&D.  It shows their AD&D alignment, plus what plane they
dwell on (a la Planescape).  The asteriks designate the Immortals I
usually allow PC priests to venerate.
    The primary reason I am posting this is to get some feedback on the
decisions I made, especially on the alignments.  Plus, maybe someone else
can get some use from it. 
    I ripped this from a word proccessor, so the format is a little weird. 
If you make the Immortal and his plane bold, with his alignment and sphere
normal, it looks pretty good. 


Al-Kalim                        Mechanus
        Lawful Neutral Immortal Patron of Ylaruam

Alphaks                         The Abyss
        Chaotic Evil Immortal of Destruction, Downfall of Alphatia

Alphatia                        Arcadia
        Lawful Neutral (Good) Immortal of Peace, Art and Alphatia

Asterius*                       The Outlands
        Neutral Immortal of Thieves and Merchants

Atzanteotl                      The Abyss
        Chaotic Evil Immortal of Corruuption, Schattenalfen Elves

Calitha Starbrow*               Elysium
        Neutral Good Immortal of Oceans and Sea Elves

Chardastes*                     Elysium
        Neutral Immortal of Healing     

Diamond                         Mechanus
        Lawful Neutral Immortal of Lawful Dragons

Diulanna*                       The Outlands
        (Lawful) Neutral Immortal of Willpower

Djaea*                          Elemental Earth
        Lawful Neutral Immortal of Earth and Planets

Eiryndul*                       Arborea
        Chaotic Good Immortal of Elven Mishief, Shiye-Lawr Elves

Faunus                          Arborea
        Chaotic Good Immortal of Sylvan Races

Frey and Freya*                 Arcadia
        Lawful Neutral (Good) Immortals of Intelligent Warfare

The Great One                   The Outlands
        Neutral Immortal of All Dragons

Halav*                          Mount Celestia
        Lawful Good Immortal of Warfare and Weaponsmithing

Hel*                            The Grey Wastes
        Neutral (Evil) Immortal of Death

Ilsundal*                       Mount Celestia
        Lawful Good Immortal Patron of Elves

Ixiom*  The Outlands, Quasi-Elemental Radiance
        Neutral (Good) Immortal of the Sun and Banishing Darkness

Ka*                             Bytopia
        Lawful Neutral (Good) Immortal Patron of Lizard Men and                         
        Preservation of Species

Kagyar*                         The Outlands
        Neutral Immortal Patron of Dwarves and Art and Craft

Karaash                         Mechanus and Archeron
        Lawful Neutral Immortal Patron of Orc Warriors

Khoronus*                       Demi-Plane of Time
        Lawful Neutral Immortal of Time

Korotiku*                       Limbo
        Chaotic Neutral Immortal of Cleverness and Trickery

Koryis                          Mount Celestia
        Lawful Good Immortal of Peace and Prosperity

Loki                            The Abyss
        Chaotic Evil Immortal of Trickery, Deceit, Evil Mischief

Masauwu                         The Grey Wastes
        Neutral Evil Immortal of Manipulation

Mealiden Starwatcher*           Mount Celestia
        Lawful Good Immortal Patron of Elven Protection

Minroth                         The Outlands
        Neutral Immortal of Merchants and Minrothad

Noumena                         Mechanus
        Lawful Neutral Immortal of Puzzles and Mysteries

Nyx     *                       Negative Material 
        Neutral Immortal of Undeath

Odin*                           Arcadia
        (Lawful) Neutral Good Immortal of Wise Leadership

Opal                            The Outlands
        Neutral Immortal of Neutral Dragons

Orcus                           Carceri
        (Chaotic) Neutral Evil Immortal of Mass Destruction

Ordana*                         The Outlands
        Neutral Immortal of Nature Forces

Palartarkan*                    Mechanus
        Lawful Neutral Immortal of Magic and Alphatian Wizards

Pearl                           Limbo
        Chaotic Neutral Immortal of Chaotic Dragons

Petra*                          Mount Celestia
        Lawful Good Immortal of Warriors of Faith

Pflarr*                         Mechanus
        Lawful Neutral Immortal of Magic and Artificial Life

Protius                         Elemental Water
        Chaotic Neutral Immortal of the Sea

Rad*                            Mechanus and Prime Material
        Lawful Neutral (Good) Immortal of Magic and Radiation

Rafiel                          Bytopia
        Lawful Neutral (Good) Immortal Patron of the Shadow Elves

Rathanos*                       Quasi-Elemental Lightning
        Chaotic Neutral Immortal of Energy and Invokers

Razud                           The Outlands
        Neutral Immortal of Self Sufficiency

Ssu-Ma                          Mechanus
        Lawful Neutral Immortal of Literacy, Scholarship and Writing

Talitha*                        The Grey Wastes
        Neutral Evil Immortal of Thievery

Tarastia*                       Mechanus
        Lawful Neutral (Good) Immortal of Justice and Revenge

Terra                           The Outlands
        Neutral Immortal of Life and it's Creation

Thanatos                        Baator
        Lawful Evil Immortal of the Destruction of Life

Thor*                           Arcadia
        Lawful Neutral (Good) Immortal of Warriors and Warrior Codes

Tiresias*                       The Outlands
        Neutral (Good) Immortal of Music, Entertainment and Prophecy


Valerias                        The Outlands
        (Chaotic) Neutral Immortal of Love, Romance and Passion

Vanya*                          Mechanus
        Lawful Neutral Immortal of War and Conquest

Zirchev*                        Elysium
        Neutral Good Immortal of Forests and Rangers

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:48:03 +0100
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Astronomy

At 16.20 23/01/97 +0100, you wrote:
>
>Re: the "outer planets": With all that magic, and with astrology 
>being an important science, I cannot help to think that any "outer 
>planets" have already been found.
>
>However, their names may be a different style: the original names are 
>certainly Thyatian or Alphatian in the Known World (and probably very 
>different elsewhere), but the newly discovered planets can have name 
>taken from Immortals (or even emperors or the like) named from 
>Immortals not known by those people who gave the planets always known 
>their first name.

Since you rightly said Astronomy has ever been an important science and that
with the powerful spells available it is very probable that almost every
planet of the solar system has been discovered, than what are those "newly
discovered planets" you're referring to? IMHO Thyatians and Alphatians have
already discovered all the planets in our system, so there should be only
Alphatian and Thyatian names for them (Nithian had their names, yes, but
they are a dead race and thus it is no longer important to know how they
called the planets). Moreover, since now Alphatia has sunk, Thyatis is the
leading country and it's better to go along with its names and designations
(it is a mere more practical: i know halflings and elves have their names,
even Minrothaddans and Ierendi could very well have theirs, but that wuold
only overcomplicate the matter! I thereby suggest we take the Thyatian names)
 
>Since I do not think Odin was originally worshipped by the Thyatians, 
>I do not think his name will appear among the planets (though the 
>seamen of the Northern Reaches will probably name some big planet 
>after him).
Actually, it was the first BIG Immortal i could think about, so i named
Jupiter after it...

>If the planets were named by the Thyatians, and the solar system of 
>Mystara is similar to Earths - but why should it, really?:
Since Mystara is earthlike pangea, i think we should...:)
I gave the names according to the relationship between real world gods and
Mystara immortals, not thinking about fire or earth bodies...

>"Mercury" = Valerias (so she'll be close to the Sun, her lover)
Good point... I said Rathanos cause Mercury was a fiery body and the closest
thing to what Rathanos thinks Perfection is, but Valerias will do, provided
all people know that Ixion and her are lovers: do the clerics know this?
Also Rathanos could be a heritage from the dead civilization of Nithia... 

>"Venus"=Protius (he's an early one, didn't know where to put him)
Venus is Valerias, but if we name Mercury after her, then Protius is good
for Venus, which is indeed a water body!

>Mystara (the visible Moon is named Matera - I'd preferred Asterius)
As you like it! Since it's invisible nobody will notice the difference :)
Mystara can also be Ordana or Terra or Djea, as you like it (i prefer
Mystara since it seems more neutral to Immortals... no Immortals' land, if
you pardon me the expression...:))

>"Mars"= Tarastia (red like fire, and she's of Energy)
Someone else proposed Thor, and maybe it's a better choice for 2 reasons:
1) i suggested Vanya cause as Mars che is the immortal of war and conquest,
but Thor is also patron of war and likely to be followed also in Thyatis
2) Mars is red like Energy as you said, so Thor (who is from Sphere of
Energy and higher ranking than Tarastia) is the real appropriate choice!
 
>"Jupiter"=Vanya (big and imposing, and Vanya is the Number One for 
>the Thyatians)
Agree 100%! Everybody agree?

>"Saturn"=Khoronus
That's good: the same personality, the same immortal

>"Uranus"= some new-fangled, important Immortal - Odin, perhaps
Since Odin is not represented, it would be good, but as i said before, it
should not be a new immortal, since i think the thyatians already knew the
planet

>"Neptunus" = same as the above - Halav? Koryis? Thor?
Definitely no! It should be someone related with water or time, or maybe
thought... Asterius?

>"Pluto"=Thanatos
Everybody agrees here?

So IMHO the debate is open on Uranus and Neptune: any good suggestions
(remember, Thyatian or Alphatian pantheon!)

>Confused yet? Damn, then I'll have to babble more!
>
>As noted, this is the state in Alphatia/Eastern Brun. Other places 
>may well have other name for the planets. The Northmen were mentioned 
>above. The Elves surely have Elven names for the stars and planets. I 
>do not know if the Dwarves are interested that much in the sky, but 
>if, they wouldn't use no damn human names. The Hin are mighty 
>seafarers - they might have named the stars and planets used to 
>navigate.
>
>Erik Sieurin

As i said before, these are good points, but do not overcomplicate things
that can be dealt with easily: only Thyatian-Alphatian names, OK?

Omne ignotum pro magnifico
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:39:59 +0000
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Population issue

 Another flaw of PWA (i still believe they're well done, but there are
particulars that are really frustrating, and that's one of them together
with NPCs levels): why it seems to me that the population of each country
detailed is always frozen? I mean, no raise through the years, not even a
poor soul! I understand wars and famine and floods and other great
misfortunes, but at those times families gave birth to many children so that
there would have been more possibilities that more could have survived and
helped their parents! Any thoughts?
DM 

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:34:24 +0000
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Astronomy

At 21.26 23/01/97 +0100, you wrote:
>
>> Since you rightly said Astronomy has ever been an important science and that
>> with the powerful spells available it is very probable that almost every
>> planet of the solar system has been discovered, than what are those "newly
>> discovered planets" you're referring to? IMHO Thyatians and Alphatians have
>> already discovered all the planets in our system, so there should be only
>> Alphatian and Thyatian names for them (Nithian had their names, yes, but
>> they are a dead race and thus it is no longer important to know how they
>> called the planets).
>The Romans are a dead race and what they called the planets of our 
>solar system is no longer important... :-)
I'm sure u know what i meant: it's just to make things as easy as possible.
And btw, also the Egyptians are a dead race... but can u remember how do
they called Mars :))
>>  
>My point was this: the inner planets were surely already discovered 
>when the Thyatian Empire was founded, but the outer planets may not 
>have been. Then they could have gotten their names from "newer" 
>Immortals, unlike the old traditional Thyatian ones.
>BTW, since the old Thyatian barbarians were good sailors, they almost 
>certainly had discovered all those inner planets by themselves.
Still thinking about this point... it would then be possible to use also the
names of the norse mythology (which cannot be overlooked IMHO!), but only
with the outer planets, uh?... still thinking.....

>> 
>> I gave the names according to the relationship between real world gods and
>> Mystara immortals, not thinking about fire or earth bodies...
>> 
>> >"Mercury" = Valerias (so she'll be close to the Sun, her lover)
I'll give you this one, OK?

>> >"Venus"=Protius (he's an early one, didn't know where to put him)
>> Venus is Valerias, but if we name Mercury after her, then Protius is good
>> for Venus, which is indeed a water body!
I Agree here too

 
>> >Mystara (the visible Moon is named Matera - I'd preferred Asterius)
>> As you like it! Since it's invisible nobody will notice the difference :)
>Damned, missed that! Who the devil is Patera, BTW?
The other Mystara's moon (the visible one), but i'm sure you wanted to know
why it was named Patera, right? I think Matera is the name given to the
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world by its inhabitants, but Patera... probably a thyatian name for moon
(but i don't understand then why they don't use "moon" if this is what it
means..) Anyway, it could also be the name of the wife of a Thyatian emperor
who named it after her.

>> Mystara can also be Ordana or Terra or Djea, as you like it (i prefer
>> Mystara since it seems more neutral to Immortals... no Immortals' land, if
>> you pardon me the expression...:))
>I think Ordana is a Sylvan word, Terra or Djaea are Thyatian words 
>for "Earth", but "Mystara" means "world".
Yeah, Mystara is good this way...
 
>> >"Mars"= Tarastia (red like fire, and she's of Energy)
>> Someone else proposed Thor, and maybe it's a better choice for 2 reasons:
>> 1) i suggested Vanya cause as Mars che is the immortal of war and conquest,
>> but Thor is also patron of war and likely to be followed also in Thyatis
>> 2) Mars is red like Energy as you said, so Thor (who is from Sphere of
>> Energy and higher ranking than Tarastia) is the real appropriate choice!
>Thor is not an original god of the Thyatians, unlike Tarastia (which 
>ought to be important in an empire fixated on law). Thor is 
>worshipped by people who take after the old Thyatian habit of 
>adopting the traits of neighbouring cultures, the Northmen in this 
>case. "What do you mean, the uncouth wargod of those primitives up 
>north is of "higher rank" than the Great And Holy Mistress Of 
>Justice?! Burn him!".
I see the point. Actually i really thought Thor was the right choice, but if
we exclude the norse pantheon, then Tarastia is the likeable choice (but
Thor... *sigh* i wanted him here!)
  
>> >"Jupiter"=Vanya (big and imposing, and Vanya is the Number One for 
>> >the Thyatians)
>> Agree 100%! Everybody agree?
So be it: Vanya!
 
>> >"Saturn"=Khoronus
>> That's good: the same personality, the same immortal
This one we all agree
 
>> >"Uranus"= some new-fangled, important Immortal - Odin, perhaps
>> Since Odin is not represented, it would be good, but as i said before, it
>> should not be a new immortal, since i think the thyatians already knew the
>> planet
If we follow your theory it could be fine...
 
>> >"Neptunus" = same as the above - Halav? Koryis? Thor?
>> Definitely no! It should be someone related with water or time, or maybe
>> thought... Asterius?
I still haven't found a suitable Immortal for this one...
 
>> >"Pluto"=Thanatos
>> Everybody agrees here?
Someone else proposed Hel or Nyx... i think Nyx has not a big following that
could lead a planet to be named after herself, so Hel and Thanatos are the
remaining choices. I would prefer the Grim Reaper (forget the relationship
with the greek Thanatos: ours is a veery different one! and hasn't got a
brother), but Hel will do as well, i don't mind
 
>> So IMHO the debate is open on Uranus and Neptune: any good suggestions
>> (remember, Thyatian or Alphatian pantheon!)
 
>> >Confused yet? Damn, then I'll have to babble more!
>> >
>> >As noted, this is the state in Alphatia/Eastern Brun. Other places 
>> >may well have other name for the planets. The Northmen were mentioned 
>> >above. The Elves surely have Elven names for the stars and planets. I 
>> >do not know if the Dwarves are interested that much in the sky, but 
>> >if, they wouldn't use no damn human names. The Hin are mighty 
>> >seafarers - they might have named the stars and planets used to 
>> >navigate.
>> >
>> >Erik Sieurin
>> 
>> As i said before, these are good points, but do not overcomplicate things
>> that can be dealt with easily: only Thyatian-Alphatian names, OK?
>Exactly! Toss Odin or Thor out the window OR name planets after what 
>they where called by Thyatians worshipping them in the olden times 
>(they are culturally  related to the Antalians, after all).
>
>> 
DM 

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:51:07 +0000
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Astronomy

At 19.01 23/01/97 -0800, you wrote:
>At 10:29 AM 1/22/97 +0100, you wrote:
>> About Mystara and the planets of its system, i have a proposal: why don't
>>we name those planets after Immortals who are followed on Mystara? The main
>>problem would only be which astronomical system we have to take into
>>account: our real system or the one described in the original Immortal set?
>>Here's my proposal:
>>
>>Earthlike system
(after the recent posts)
Mercury = Valerias
Venus = Protius
Mystara
Mars = Tarastia (or Thor)
Jupiter = Vanya
Saturn = Khoronus
Uranus = Odin
Neptune = Asterius or Korotiku or someone related to the sphere of Time (no
choice so far)
>>Pluto = Thanatos
>>
>On our own Earth, if Pluto was called after an immortal in WoTI instead, it
>would most likely be Hel.  She is the Scandinavian equivalent to Pluto, as
>they both rule the realms of the dead.  Thanatos is another Greek god, who
>is quite separate from the Greek equivalent of Pluto, Hades, and he may have
>a Roman equivalent who is almost certainly not Pluto.  He is the god of
>death, one of his brothers is Hypnos (sleep), and in fact he was born before
>Hades was.
Our Thanatos is definitely DIFFERENT from the greek god, so i don't think
you have to consider this reference. Take him only as the Immortal of Death
and Corruption: he's as fine as Hel for Pluto (maybe he's got more followers
and is more feared than her, hence it should be more appropriate to have a
planet named after him)

>>Old Immortal Set System
Hey, why is anybody paying attention to this one??? It could be an
interesting altenative solution! Think of this: Damocles explodes and forms
Mercury (which can then be called Rathanos as Valerias already exists and is
Venus) and Pluto (which can be called Hel, since Thanatos is already Charon
and Hel has lost the war)
 
>>Venus = Valerias
>>Mystara
>>Damocles = (this planet will blow up in the future and its pieces will form
>>Mercury and Pluto, so i suggest Alphatia or Alphaks for this doomed planet
>>for obvious reasons)
>>Jupiter = Vanya
>>Saturn = Khoronus
>>Uranus = (Korotiku, Ka, Koryis or Odin)
>>Neptune = Proteus
>>Charon = Thanatos
>>
>>PS: who gave Mystara its name? I don't recall a Mystara immortal nor it is
>>ever mentioned a Mystara NPC vip that could have represented its whole
>>population, so who is this Mystara? Maybe it means earth in Thyatian or
>>elvish or another ancient language?
>>
>I thought there was a Mystara immortal... oops, that's in Forgotten Realms...
>Maybe Djaea or Terra would be appropriate.  Djaea is obviously based on
>Gaea, a for the Mystaran one Greek goddess of Earth, and Terra is the most
>powerful in her sphere.  They both are interested in planets.
Mystara is just fine

>Don't forget, there were immortals with the names of the Greek gods, like
>Zeus, Hermes, Aphrodite... but then in WoTI they were changed.
yes, but they are low Immortals not very well known, so they should not be
mentioned (maybe you could name the planets' moons after them)
>
>David Melik
>Darwin@mail.nwinfo.net
>
DM 

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:57:55 +0000
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: [Mystara] Undead rampaging

 I have read somewhere (PWA 1014 or FNN, don't remeber) that after a huge
meteorit crashed somewhere in Skothar, many dead have raise from their
graves and have begun terrorizing the villages throughout the Known World
and Skothar. Many adventurers also report increased activity from greater
undead such as vampires, spirits and liches: what the heck is happening and
who is behind this? And what was inside the meteor crashed in Skothar? If
someone can enlighten me about this subject, i am willing to see the light!

DM 

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 05:28:09 -0600
From: jduke@zebra.net (Joseph Duke)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Astronomy

- ------------13DD3EC15D20
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> >> As i said before, these are good points, but do not overcomplicate
things
> >> that can be dealt with easily: only Thyatian-Alphatian names, OK?
> >Exactly! Toss Odin or Thor out the window OR name planets after what
> >they where called by Thyatians worshipping them in the olden times
> >(they are culturally  related to the Antalians, after all).

This whole thread assumes that Mystara is located on Earth.  What makes
you think it is located on Earth?

Joe


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<DT>&gt; &gt;&gt; As i said before, these are good points, but do not overcomplicate
things<BR>
&gt; &gt;&gt; that can be dealt with easily: only Thyatian-Alphatian names,
OK?<BR>
&gt; &gt;Exactly! Toss Odin or Thor out the window OR name planets after
what<BR>
&gt; &gt;they where called by Thyatians worshipping them in the olden times<BR>
&gt; &gt;(they are culturally&nbsp; related to the Antalians, after all).<BR>
<BR></DT>

<DT>This whole thread assumes that Mystara is located on Earth.&nbsp; What
makes you think it is located on Earth?</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>Joe</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

</BODY>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:58:55 +0000
From: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Astronomy

At 05.28 24/01/97 -0600, you wrote:
>> >> As i said before, these are good points, but do not overcomplicate
>things
>> >> that can be dealt with easily: only Thyatian-Alphatian names, OK?
>> >Exactly! Toss Odin or Thor out the window OR name planets after what
>> >they where called by Thyatians worshipping them in the olden times
>> >(they are culturally  related to the Antalians, after all).
>
>This whole thread assumes that Mystara is located on Earth.  What makes
>you think it is located on Earth?
>
>Joe
First: geomorphical map of Mystara is the same of our Pangea
Second: in the old Immortal Set it is specifically stated that the Known
World is situated in a star system very similar to ours (if u read my first
post you'll find how the system was planned to be)
Third: it is a common assumption arbitrarily made by us DMs and players
alike, but obviously everyone has its own opinion about this and Mystara can
be placed wherever your campaign suits well. we're only trying to make the
Mystara Astronomy an official thing, a common reference ground for those who
wish to use it :)
DM 

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico" Tacitus, 'Agricola'
(That which is not known is enchanting)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:32:21 +0100
From: Fabrizio Paoli <lu000122@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Astronomy

At 11.34 24/01/97 +0000, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it wrote:
 
>>> >Mystara (the visible Moon is named Matera - I'd preferred Asterius)
>>> As you like it! Since it's invisible nobody will notice the difference :)
>>Damned, missed that! Who the devil is Patera, BTW?
>The other Mystara's moon (the visible one), but i'm sure you wanted to know
>why it was named Patera, right? I think Matera is the name given to the
>world by its inhabitants, but Patera... probably a thyatian name for moon
>(but i don't understand then why they don't use "moon" if this is what it
>means..) Anyway, it could also be the name of the wife of a Thyatian emperor
>who named it after her.

My opinion.
Matera (visible moon) from the Latin (Thyatian) "mater", i.e. mother
Patera (invisible moon) from the Latin (Thyatian) "pater", i.e. father 

**************
Fabrizio Paoli                  brizio@lunet.it            
DM in City Of The Stars 
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html 
                                        

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 97 1:23:43 EST
From: Dave Brohman <dbrohman@chat.carleton.ca>
Subject: [Mystara] + AD&D Mystara Modules +

Does anyone have any tricks on how to add some more life to these modules
so that they are more appropriate to experienced gamers?  I am asking
solely since the gaming store I frequent is selling them off very cheaply
right now.

Actually, I picked up Night of the Vampire, at my fiance's request, and I
have found that, with a few modifications, it works pretty well (as long
as you chuck the friggin' CD out the window!).

What I have done for this module is simplt to make Gustav the Andru of
old.  In truth, the Andru of the module is really the Great Grandson of
the original Andru (now called Gustav).  He was turned by Andru/Gustav,
thus allowing the module to progress as written.  However, it is truly
Gustav who is behind it all.  The whole point of the charade of the
wedding (Laina is charmed by Gustav but not turned) is to gather all of
the scheming, plotting nobles in the cast under one roof to off them all
at one go.  Gustav also employs 2 Doppelgangers, one fore him and one for
his wife, so that they may be seen to be about during daylight hours.

With these simple modifications, the module suddenly becomes more complex
for the characters.  As written, it is pretty easy for anyone to peg Andru
as the main badguy, which is why it will totally take the characters
offguard when Gustav and his wife, backed up by 2 Dopplegangers, all the
household staff and guards (charmed) and all the dead nobles (raised as
undead) attack them after they have offed Andru.

The way I plan to run it, the party will, no doubt, succeed in killing
Andru, and either Saving or destroying Laina.  As they prepare to leave
the next day, Gustav asks them to come to the ballroom with him so that he
might offer a "suitable reward for your actions".  The "reward" is, of
course, a mass attack by all the aforementioned evil dudes.

Before you think I am being too cruel to the poor players, bear in mind
that they are all 4th to 6th level.

Anyway, the whole point of all this was to ask if there are any similarly
simple modifications that can be used to liven up the other AD&D Mystara
Modules (I think there are 2 more.  Something to do with D'Amberville and
another with the word "adventurers" in the title).

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Dave Brohman                      E-Mail : dbrohman@chat.carleton.ca
  Carleton University               

  Featuring Alexi Sayle as the Balowski Family.
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:11:55 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] + AD&D Mystara Modules +

On Sat, 25 Jan 1997, Dave Brohman wrote:

> What I have done for this module is simplt to make Gustav the Andru of
> old.  In truth, the Andru of the module is really the Great Grandson of
> the original Andru (now called Gustav).  He was turned by Andru/Gustav,
> thus allowing the module to progress as written.  However, it is truly
> Gustav who is behind it all.  The whole point of the charade of the
> wedding (Laina is charmed by Gustav but not turned) is to gather all of
> the scheming, plotting nobles in the cast under one roof to off them all
> at one go.  Gustav also employs 2 Doppelgangers, one fore him and one for
> his wife, so that they may be seen to be about during daylight hours.

Of course, you could use the OD&D rules for Nosferatu, which enables 
powerful nosferatu to go about during daylight hours, and then toss out 
the doppelganger aspect altogether, which might make it even more 
difficult for the PCs to guess what is going on. (Not owning the module, 
I'm not sure what effect this might have, but if I get the gist of 
things, it seems that discovering that the doppelgangers are 
doppelgangers is one of the main giveaways to finding out the identity of 
the vampires.)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 02:34:22 -0500 (EST)
From: ChanDog21@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Astronomy

As everyone forgot that Blackmoor was the first and most advanced human
culture on Mystara.  So I would thing the they would have named the planets,
 and that the surviving races may have carried those names on, maybe changing
slightly over the centuries.  It might be possible that some self-important
Thyatian Emperor might have had them renamed to reflect Thyatian society, but
I think that that would be considered taboo.  Unfortunately, I know very
little about Blackmoor.

Anyone have any ideas? :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:33:25 +0100
From: "Marzio Spairani" <Spairani@aleph.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Wands

>  Can someone explain me this rule: only magic users can use wands, but as it
> is stated in GAZ3, a magic user can create any object with any particular
> spell in it, so my point is:
> only a M-U can use a Wand of Fireballs, but he can also manifacture a Ring
> of Fireballs that is exactly the same thing and which can be used by any
> character class!
> Hence my question: why only M-U can use wands?? I think it was probably a
> restriction put in the Basic and Expert manuals because the wands had
> powerful spells on them that would have made other charater classes too
> powerful if they had the opportunity to use them, but with GAZ3 all the
> basic rules blow up!
> Tell me what u think
> 
> 
> 

First of all I think that wands are typical M-U objects, furthermore 
in mho this kind of magical objects should be rarer than the others 
and in general more powerful, and thus also more difficult to be 
crafted,enchanted and of course used.
That's why they can be used only by M-U.

THE VICEMAN ONLINE  .....  Net Treks the NExT Generation  =====>>>>

Marzio Spairani - Genova, Italy
Spairani@aleph.it
HTTP://www.aleph.it/~spairani

             One ring to rule them all, One ring to find them,
             One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

             J.R.R.Tolkien 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:33:24 +0100
From: "Marzio Spairani" <Spairani@aleph.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sliders

> Have any of you ever watched Sliders on FOX, It's funny, but all of us, DM's
> and the like  have created this wondrous Multivers.  Not just with Mystara,
> but with Grayhawk, Dark Sun, Forgotten Realms etc. and not just TSRinc but
> all the other RPGs from DBA Production (Cybergeneration) to White Wolfs
> (Wraith: The Oblivion).  I am completely in AWE when I set and contemplate
> this. I guess that is as it should be.  Didnt someone say, All of the
> Universe could fit into Gods eye and if we could see, just Gods eye in its
> entirety, then we would surely go Mad.¶  or something like ???
> 
> How many Realities are there . . . .  Food for thought. Aint role-playing
> Grand.
> 
> Chandog21
> 
> 
> 

Well said indeed.

THE VICEMAN ONLINE  .....  Net Treks the NExT Generation  =====>>>>

Marzio Spairani - Genova, Italy
Spairani@aleph.it
HTTP://www.aleph.it/~spairani

             One ring to rule them all, One ring to find them,
             One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

             J.R.R.Tolkien 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 21:33:25 -0800
From: David Keyser <davidk@Synopsys.COM>
Subject: [Mystara] AD&D Mystara Modules

>Does anyone have any tricks on how to add some more life to these modules
>so that they are more appropriate to experienced gamers?  I am asking
>solely since the gaming store I frequent is selling them off very cheaply
>right now.

>Actually, I picked up Night of the Vampire, at my fiance's request, and I
>have found that, with a few modifications, it works pretty well (as long
>as you chuck the friggin' CD out the window!).

Some good ideas Dave.

>Anyway, the whole point of all this was to ask if there are any similarly
>simple modifications that can be used to liven up the other AD&D Mystara
>Modules (I think there are 2 more.  Something to do with D'Amberville and
>another with the word "adventurers" in the title).

The D'Amberville adventure is a masterpiece, I don't plan on changing anything
in that one.

But the other one set in Karameikos, Hail the Heroes, is, well, a little dull.
The PCs are working for the Church of Traladara, searching for an ancient magic
heirloom, while competeing against agents from the Cult of Halav, and the 
Church of Karameikos.

A great way to spice it up is to have some PCs work for the Church of Traladara,
and some work for the Church of Karameikos, and have them compete against each
other in the search.  Almost nothing in the module has to be changed to do this,
and you just need to add some material to give the agents for the Church of
Karameikos some leads to follow.  That should make the adventure go from very
easy, to very hard.  No matter what the game world, no creature is more 
dangerous and devious than a player character.

Dave Keyser

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End of mystara-digest V1 #322
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