From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #212 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, November 26 1997 Volume 02 : Number 212 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:06:34 -0500 (EST) From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Undead During Magicless Days In a message dated 97-11-24 05:55:24 EST, Inconu@aol.com writes: << IIRC Terari was among the many to be wished back alive during the WWM >> I don't mean to nitpick, but he would have to have been wished back to life after the WWM -- no wishes were possible during that week. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:25:41 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Power Vacuum in Mystara >Has anyone noticed that there is currentl a large power vacuum in the KW? > Indeed. >The WDL is not realy very effective, considering that 2 of its members >have dropped out and that its one major crisis was a huge failure. Yes, though Karameikos is certainly a country on the rise, which may end up as one of the major powers of the KW in the future. >Thyatis, as I see it, while pretty stable now, will soon be running into >civil strife. Its legions have been handed defeat after defeat since the >Alphatian Spike Assualt almost 60 years ago, it no longer has an external >enemy to unite its population, and its most recent conquest, a few >nations on the IoD, seem more like 1000 AC Karameikos, practicaly >independent. Yes, Thyatis is not very strong, despite Eusebius's takeover. I don't know the details, but I fear it won't better in the next almanac. >NACE is probaly one of the most powerful nations right now, but is >further away and seems unlikely to dominate world affairs due to its lack >of a leader . Yes, the NACE is quite powerful. In fact, I had it regain strength quite quickly in 1013-1014 so it won't left too much of a power vacuum, and to counterbalance Thyatis. However the NACE does still have problems of its own - mostly internal problems as a result of Alphatia's sinking, and the military hazard of Thaytis (which may always turn onto the NACE). >Just a few thoughts, so no flames please :) Why flames? interesting thoughts. You should not forget the Master, who is still seeking for an opportunity to expand his empire (both in the KW, the SC, and anywhere else he can), and the Shadow Elves, who, despite their internal troubles (civil war, many many events for the next almanac) have one of the largest empire, controlling land above and below ground, knowing routes to every nation of the KW and even to the HW. So, it's a time of opportunity for would-be emperors. Any PC out there trying the path of the Dynast? ;) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:15:25 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Ierendi Royal Castle In our last gaming session, the PCs visited Ierendi City, and then I realized that the royal castle was not marked anywhere on the city plan! Did anyone notice it, and if so, where did you put it? (I think the GAZ mentions that it's right on the shore) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:25:12 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Mighty historical figures One thing why I love Mystara is that it has such a rich history, with causes and consequences just like RW history. However, one thing it doesn't seem to have is "one-man empires", so to speak. That is to say, in RW there were several mighty leaders who forged great empires which fell apart after the leader's death. Examples are Alexander the Great, Asoka, Charlemagne, Genghis Khan, Timur, Napoleon, and Hitler. In Mystara, most states seem to be stable and long-lasting, with generations of rulers staying in power. There are, however, a couple of states where the ruler is also the founder of the state, which could possibly fall apart after that ruler's death: Karameikos (imagine what would happen if Traladarans decided to rebel after Stefan's death, esp. if Magda Marilenev will be still alive), Wendar (Gylharen holds the Elvenstar, but what if he dies and it is lost), Heldannic Territories (major uprisings are bound to happen after Klagendorf's death, and he's quite old), Hule (what if the Master disappeared, perhaps achieving Immortality). Any thoughts on this? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:33:48 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Power Vacuum in Mystara On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Aaron E Nowack wrote: > The WDL is not realy very effective, considering that 2 of its members > have dropped out and that its one major crisis was a huge failure. Look for this to undergo some changes in this and next year's almanacs. > Thyatis, as I see it, while pretty stable now, will soon be running into > civil strife. Its legions have been handed defeat after defeat since the > Alphatian Spike Assualt almost 60 years ago, it no longer has an external > enemy to unite its population, and its most recent conquest, a few > nations on the IoD, seem more like 1000 AC Karameikos, practicaly > independent. This may undergo some changes too- certainly it's possible that internal strifes will occur, but they may also acquire some new allies. :) But you're right- things still haven't stabilized much at all since the Great War. I think things should return in the next few years, to a relative stability (that enjoyed by most nations during the Gazetteer period)... at least for a time. But then, much of this is still up in the air, though. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:23:13 -0500 (EST) From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Power Vacuum in Mystara In a message dated 97-11-25 03:59:27 EST, you write: << Has anyone noticed that there is currentl a large power vacuum in the KW?>> Yep. One of the main motivating reasons for my Operation Hydra. BTW I will be posting the next section shortly. <> The WDL is a defensive coalition. It doesn't have the means or authority to act as an aggressor. Too many different objectives for that. Its one attribute is that bordering nations have made a mutual defense alliance. The common interest in the region's security is the thread that binds. << Thyatis, as I see it, while pretty stable now, will soon be running into civil strife. Its legions have been handed defeat after defeat since the Alphatian Spike Assualt almost 60 years ago, it no longer has an external enemy to unite its population, and its most recent conquest, a few nations on the IoD, seem more like 1000 AC Karameikos, practicaly independent.>> I have to agree somewhat. IIRC several of the IoD nations want to create a WDL type alliance and assume a more independent role from Thyatis. IMO Thyatis's defeats have been due to engaging in too extensive of a campaign. These defeats came under the reign of Thincol. Though cunning, Thincol was a gladiator prior to assuming the throne. Thyatis now ruled by Eusebius, a man of the military. Perhaps his military know how will succeed where his father's gladiatoral background failed. <> Powerful yet divided. Any expansionism would have to be carefully planned and executed as not to leave parts of the Empire unprotected. I would like to see NACE forces consolidate the Alatian Islands. IMC this has been overcome as Eusebius reliquished Aegos to the Alphatians. Other nations with great potential- Ethengar- IMO the ethies are the best cavalry in the KW. However, cavalry alone cannot insure victory. They need support troops to wage real war against Glantri or the Heldannic Knights. Foot infantry and seige weapons come to mind. The Golden Khan has enacted means to provide the seige weapons. The infantry portion is a problem as no self respecting ethie would forsake his mount for the role as a foot soldier. The only solution to the infantry problem is some sort of alliance with a country that does have adequate experience with infantry. IMC Thyatis is at odds with Glantri for abandoning them during WotI. The Heldannic Knights are also at odds with Glantri, plus they desire a means to regain the favor of Vanya. The Emerond- A mysterious nation with a warrior past, it offers much potential. I once watched a cheasy action/adventure movie "Men of War" or "Fortunes of War". The plot revolved around a group of modern mercenaries hired to remove the natives from an island that some businessmen wanted to develope. The mercs have a change of heart and defend the island. The one thing that did appeal to me was that the natives of this island had a history of being fierce warriors. Their current sketch reflected little of this as they seemed quite passive. However, with a viable threat they perform a ritual to "reawaken the warrior spirit of their people" and fight alongside the mercs valiantly. Perhaps it is time for the Emerond to awaken their own warrior spirit and ally themselves with the unconquered Clans of the Hinterlands and push the Thyatians off the continent. IMC someof this has happened. The Emerond have also joined NACE. The Milenians (Davania)- Scattered and a mere shadow of their former selves, the Milenians have need of a strong leader to return them to their historic status. First, that leader must forge the scattered settlements into a singular nation. Then and only then will the Milenians be able to amass and commit forces to expand their borders. Could be a fine opportunity for someone to do some empire building. IMC there are also several races that I have placed on Davania- The Divergans- A genetically created warrior race of the old Blackmoor Civilization. They were saved from extinction during GRoF by being stationed at the Blackmoor military base on Davania. Under the guidance of their patron Demag (in reality a pantheon of Immortals), they have slowly but steadily expanded their borders as more living space is needed. Within their current borders, reside a Clan of Averial (winged elves), the Callotdi and the civilized Orcs and Gnolls of Timbiyash. Outside their borders, they have had contact with both the Heldannic Knights at Greenland and the cursed inhabitants of Shyllia. There is a brief but outdated description of the Divergans in one of Brant's NetMags. I really should send him the updated and revised stats. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:02:11 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Classic D&D Renewal project... In einer eMail vom 23.11.97 21:52:37 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << Lessee... I have Hollow World, Dawn of the Emporers, Champions of Mystara... which one am I lacking? >> Wrath of the Immortal of course! Rolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:02:13 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Tree of Life In einer eMail vom 24.11.97 14:31:42 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << Trees of Life in later Mystara products were tied to Ilsundal, and elves with different histories and faiths were given other relics (eg the Carved Oak). >> The Carved Oak of the Verdiers is an artefact, but no relic. And on the matter of Shiye relics. Maybe Eiryndul is still planning. Rolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:02:04 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: [none] 23.11.97 17:59:04 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << What about leaving them in English as I do? :-) >> As I see, you don't have a better neither. The Problem is, that I have only one good translation and this is "Schattenelfen" (or "Schattenelben"). You see, the TSR authors obviously tried to use a German word (not quite correct, but they may wanted it so). Maybe I should use a Spanish word for the Schattenalfen. Or would you prefer an Italian, Fabrizio? Rolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:02:08 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Classic D&D Renewal project... In einer eMail vom 23.11.97 19:25:51 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << On a similar topic. At an italian convention about a month ago me an Marco (DM) showed the 1014 net-Almanac to the guys of the company who recently aquired publishing rights for D&D and AD&D for Italy. They were really impressed by that work. Unfortunately they said they cannot revive Mystara (even in italian only) until TSR/WotC don't revive it themselves. >> What's the position of WotC and TSR? They don't have an interest in Mystara at this point. There must be a possibility. Is any lawyer under us? Under some regulations we might come to an agreement. Rolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:02:06 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim + Maps In einer eMail vom 23.11.97 18:08:56 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << You're right. The maps don't fit. There are significant contradictions, mainly between the small-scale and the large-scale maps. That peninsula in the Heldannic Territories, for instance. Or the Denagoth plateau, which is just not visible on any of the maps of Norwold, even though it should be. Sometimes, even in the same source, there are discrepancies. The two maps that come with Wrath of the Immortals do not agree. I keep meaning to do a "corrected" map for this area for my own campaign, but I never seem to find the time. >> I too, but if I only could find a little time to get finished with my north-western Brun maps, then I had a complete set of 24 miles maps. Maybe on Christmas holidays. BTW, don't attack me with answers about the maps, I still don't have a scanner. Rolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:06:41 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Power Vacuum in Mystara On Tue, 25 Nov 1997 Alex295@aol.com wrote: > Other nations with great potential- > > Ethengar- IMO the ethies are the best cavalry in the KW. However, cavalry > alone cannot insure victory. They need support troops to wage real war > against Glantri or the Heldannic Knights. Foot infantry and seige weapons > come to mind. The Golden Khan has enacted means to provide the seige weapons. > The infantry portion is a problem as no self respecting ethie would forsake > his mount for the role as a foot soldier. The only solution to the infantry > problem is some sort of alliance with a country that does have adequate > experience with infantry. IMC Thyatis is at odds with Glantri for abandoning > them during WotI. The Heldannic Knights are also at odds with Glantri, plus > they desire a means to regain the favor of Vanya. I was going to mention the Heldannic Knights, as they are still a viable power... or will be, once their internal strife ceases and they regain sight of their goals. Although after this year, Ethengar's situation will be very much up in the air. I can definitely foresee possibilities with a Heldann/Ethengar alliance, though. Muhahahahah. :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:12:40 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [Mystara] HW. On Sat, 22 Nov 1997, Cecil Cosman wrote: > >-- basically, more types of magic worked in the Hollow World > > after the Week of No Magic than before. > > > anyone have a list of the spells that work now? 'Cause I'd like to be > acurate in my hw camp. Could you beam that to me too? Thanks :) Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:27:22 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: [Mystara] Mystara renewal project. Wotc/Tsr planned supplement for this year is Rumored to be the official 1014 A.C. Almanac, or a supplement to one of the Gazeteers possibly Darokin or Thyatis as a boxed set. Mystara Online has been fumigated and now bugfree go to Http://members.tripod.com/~mktriton/index.html Shark-kin/Sahuagin Arcana adaptations will be up and running Tomorrow. end ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:32:17 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: [Mystara] Mystara renewal project. Have you tried the WOTC Game center in Seatle, Galwylin? I'm sure they might have very many copy in their game store. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:50:56 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: [Mystara] Day of Dread Scenario The Day of Dread is a weakened version of the Week without magic. As for the Undead question pertaining to the day of dread. I'm surethat the Immortal Nyx is using her magic to allow those animate undead (skeleton, and Zombies) to reanimate as soon as the DoD ends in order to protect her creatures of the night. I'd say that Nyx did her homework and is working overtime to protect her undead minions. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:59:34 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara renewal project. So there will be Mystara product release in '98? Where did you find this out? Galwylin - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm - ---------- > From: George Valencia > To: Mystara-l@lists.io.com > Subject: [Mystara] Mystara renewal project. > Date: Tuesday, November 25, 1997 1:27 PM > Wotc/Tsr planned supplement for this year is Rumored to be the official 1014 A.C. Almanac, or a supplement to one of the Gazeteers possibly Darokin or Thyatis as a boxed set. Mystara Online has been fumigated and now bugfree go to Http://members.tripod.com/~mktriton/index.html Shark-kin/Sahuagin Arcana adaptations will be up and running Tomorrow. end ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:01:08 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara renewal project. Afraid I'm on the other side of the country. Galwylin - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm - ---------- > From: George Valencia > To: Mystara-l@lists.io.com > Cc: galwylin@airnet.com > Subject: [Mystara] Mystara renewal project. > Date: Tuesday, November 25, 1997 1:32 PM > > Have you tried the WOTC Game center in Seatle, Galwylin? I'm sure they > might have very many copy in their game store. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:19:26 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara renewal project. On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, George Valencia wrote: > Wotc/Tsr planned supplement for this year is Rumored to be the official > 1014 A.C. Almanac, or a supplement to one of the Gazeteers possibly > Darokin or Thyatis as a boxed set. Where'd you hear this? - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:54:08 -0500 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim + Maps Geoff Gander wrote: > >I keep meaning to do a "corrected" map for this area for my own campaign, but I > >never seem to find the time. > > > >Michael. > > > Look no farther! I am currently drawing an 8-mile hex map of the Denagoth > Plateau - to be added to this year's almanac - if thiis is what you seek. > I am also working on a more "cannon" map of Norwold - hopefully one that > overcomes these technicalities. > > Geoff Sounds great. I look forward to seeing the results.While the PCs in my campaign have been through this area once or twice, the campaign doesn't focus on it, so I've been able to get around to doing anything with it. Thanks. Michael. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:59:46 -0500 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara renewal project. George Valencia wrote: > Wotc/Tsr planned supplement for this year is Rumored to be the official > 1014 A.C. Almanac, or a supplement to one of the Gazeteers possibly > Darokin or Thyatis as a boxed set. Where did you learn this? I don't mean to sound sceptical because it would be great if it turns out to be true; I'm just curious. Dragon #241 mentions that some discontinued worlds might get a single supplement per year, but it only mentions Spelljammer and Dark Sun. It doesn't mention Mystara (which doesn't necessarily mean that they're not considering Mystara). Michael. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:11:15 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [Mystara] Re: At 12.02 25/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >As I see, you don't have a better neither. The Problem is, that I have only >one good >translation and this is "Schattenelfen" (or "Schattenelben"). You see, the >TSR >authors obviously tried to use a German word (not quite correct, but they may >wanted it so). Maybe I should use a Spanish word for the Schattenalfen. Or >would you prefer an Italian, Fabrizio? I think Schattenalfen wasn't supposed to be German, but some nordic language. IIRC the danish word for Elf is Alf and the plural may well be Alfen (I don't speak Danish). Same as Alfheim that should translate into Elves Home or something like that. Anyway I don't see your problem. Why should you translate them in the first place? Do you think that english-speakers translate Schattenalfen into Shadow Elves. I don't think so, they just leave the original names though they mean exactly the same things. If you want an Italian word you can call them "Elfi dell'Ombra" or simply "Elfi Ombra". Another option is to call one of the two groups "Dark Elves", that should translate into "Dunkel Elfen" in German. Bye. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:38:50 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Power Vacuum in Mystara On Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:25:41 CET "Herve Musseau" writes: [snip] >You should not forget the Master, who is still seeking for an >opportunity to expand his empire (both in the KW, the SC, and anywhere > >else he can) That was actualy what prompted my post. I was thinking about what would happen if the Master threw all his effort into conquering the KW. I reached some disturbing conclusions. While the WDL could hold him off for a while, eventually they would fall through sheer numbers. Besides that, he could probally keep all the other nations off his back while he eliminated them one by one. Also, the Heldannic Knights might even aid him. The only chance for the KW would be for someone oe some nation to unify all the nations against him at the start. Barring a PC taking action, :), I don't see anyone in the KW in a position to do that. >, and the Shadow Elves, who, despite their internal >troubles >(civil war, many many events for the next almanac) have one of the >largest empire, controlling land above and below ground, knowing >routes >to every nation of the KW and even to the HW. Not just civil strife. Its the City of the Stars vs. Rafielton vs. Aengmor vs. the Alfhiem Avengers vs. surface elves who want to live in peace vs. "No compromise!" SE I don't see any way, barring Rafiel and Ilsundal interceeding, that this can be settled in the near future. >So, it's a time of opportunity for would-be emperors. Any PC out there > >trying the path of the Dynast? ;) > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:24:22 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mighty historical figures On Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:25:12 +0200 (EET) Aleksei Andrievski writes: > >One thing why I love Mystara is that it has such a rich history, with >causes and consequences just like RW history. However, one thing it >doesn't seem to have is "one-man empires", so to speak. That is to >say, in >RW there were several mighty leaders who forged great empires which >fell >apart after the leader's death. Examples are Alexander the Great, >Asoka, >Charlemagne, Genghis Khan, Timur, Napoleon, and Hitler. In Mystara, >most >states seem to be stable and long-lasting, with generations of rulers >staying in power. There are, however, a couple of states where the >ruler >is also the founder of the state, which could possibly fall apart >after >that ruler's death: Karameikos (imagine what would happen if >Traladarans >decided to rebel after Stefan's death, esp. if Magda Marilenev will be >still alive), Wendar (Gylharen holds the Elvenstar, but what if he >dies >and it is lost), Heldannic Territories (major uprisings are bound to >happen after Klagendorf's death, and he's quite old), Hule (what if >the >Master disappeared, perhaps achieving Immortality). >Any thoughts on this? What about the Empire of Dorfin IV? :) Seriously though, a good point. With magical transportation and communication, its a lot easier to keep an Empire together. Also, many ruler's in Mystara use lonvengity potions and wishes to stay alive longer, allowing them to forge many peoples into one people before their deaths. Thyatis could have been an "one-man empire", except for Valentia. >***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord >** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - >but >** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon >us." >** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, >archmages, >** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." >** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to >tread." >***************************** > > "Ooops." -PC after damaging the Doomsday device ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:16:14 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Power Vacuum in Mystara On Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:23:13 -0500 (EST) Alex295@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 97-11-25 03:59:27 EST, you write: > ><< Has anyone noticed that there is currentl a large power vacuum in >the >KW?>> >Yep. One of the main motivating reasons for my Operation Hydra. BTW I >will be >posting the next section shortly. > > > <members > have dropped out and that its one major crisis was a huge failure.>> >The WDL is a defensive coalition. It doesn't have the means or >authority to >act as an aggressor. Too many different objectives for that. Its one >attribute is that bordering nations have made a mutual defense >alliance. The >common interest in the region's security is the thread that binds. Not exactly what I meant. There's no clear leader in the KW, or even a few nations much stronger then the rest. This, IMHO will lead to strife in the not so distant future. ><< Thyatis, as I see it, while pretty stable now, will soon be running >into > civil strife. Its legions have been handed defeat after defeat since >the > Alphatian Spike Assualt almost 60 years ago, it no longer has an >external > enemy to unite its population, and its most recent conquest, a few > nations on the IoD, seem more like 1000 AC Karameikos, practicaly > independent.>> >I have to agree somewhat. IIRC several of the IoD nations want to >create a >WDL type alliance and assume a more independent role from Thyatis. IMO >Thyatis's defeats have been due to engaging in too extensive of a >campaign. >These defeats came under the reign of Thincol. Though cunning, Thincol >was a >gladiator prior to assuming the throne. Thyatis now ruled by Eusebius, >a man >of the military. Perhaps his military know how will succeed where his >father's gladiatoral background failed. Agreed. However, the question is whether Eusebius can revitalize the Empire before it blows up underneath him. > < further away and seems unlikely to dominate world affairs due to its >lack > of a leader .>> >Powerful yet divided. Any expansionism would have to be carefully >planned and >executed as not to leave parts of the Empire unprotected. I would like >to see >NACE forces consolidate the Alatian Islands. IMC this has been >overcome as >Eusebius reliquished Aegos to the Alphatians. Agreed, but once again I didn't mean an expansionist threat. >Other nations with great potential- > >Ethengar- IMO the ethies are the best cavalry in the KW. However, >cavalry >alone cannot insure victory. They need support troops to wage real war >against Glantri or the Heldannic Knights. Foot infantry and seige >weapons >come to mind. The Golden Khan has enacted means to provide the seige >weapons. >The infantry portion is a problem as no self respecting ethie would >forsake >his mount for the role as a foot soldier. The only solution to the >infantry >problem is some sort of alliance with a country that does have >adequate >experience with infantry. IMC Thyatis is at odds with Glantri for >abandoning >them during WotI. The Heldannic Knights are also at odds with Glantri, >plus >they desire a means to regain the favor of Vanya. I don't know much about the Ethies, but isn't Moglai Khan hold on the clans very precarious? >The Emerond- A mysterious nation with a warrior past, it offers much >potential. I once watched a cheasy action/adventure movie "Men of War" >or >"Fortunes of War". The plot revolved around a group of modern >mercenaries >hired to remove the natives from an island that some businessmen >wanted to >develope. The mercs have a change of heart and defend the island. The >one >thing that did appeal to me was that the natives of this island had a >history >of being fierce warriors. Their current sketch reflected little of >this as >they seemed quite passive. However, with a viable threat they perform >a >ritual to "reawaken the warrior spirit of their people" and fight >alongside >the mercs valiantly. >Perhaps it is time for the Emerond to awaken their own warrior spirit >and >ally themselves with the unconquered Clans of the Hinterlands and push >the >Thyatians off the continent. IMC someof this has happened. The Emerond >have >also joined NACE. Where are the Emerondians developed? Princess Ark? >The Milenians (Davania)- Scattered and a mere shadow of their former >selves, >the Milenians have need of a strong leader to return them to their >historic >status. First, that leader must forge the scattered settlements into a >singular nation. Then and only then will the Milenians be able to >amass and >commit forces to expand their borders. Could be a fine opportunity for >someone to do some empire building. An interesting idea. A resurgent Millenia. Hmm. >IMC there are also several races that I have placed on Davania- > >The Divergans- A genetically created warrior race of the old Blackmoor >Civilization. They were saved from extinction during GRoF by being >stationed >at the Blackmoor military base on Davania. Under the guidance of their >patron >Demag (in reality a pantheon of Immortals), they have slowly but >steadily >expanded their borders as more living space is needed. Within their >current >borders, reside a Clan of Averial (winged elves), the Callotdi and the >civilized Orcs and Gnolls of Timbiyash. >Outside their borders, they have had contact with both the Heldannic >Knights >at Greenland and the cursed inhabitants of Shyllia. >There is a brief but outdated description of the Divergans in one of >Brant's >NetMags. I really should send him the updated and revised stats. > "Ooops." -PC after damaging the Doomsday device ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:34:25 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Ethengar There are a couple of things in Ethengar that should probably be resolved soon. One is Ortu, Moglai's cousin, plotting to usurp power (surely he isn't going to wait till he is an old man to act); the other is Kadan Khan/Jaku the Render thing. Almanac people, have you considered doing anything with these? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:31:31 +1000 From: "Shane" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Undead During Magicless Days For those using AD&D to play in the Mystaran setting, how would Ray's idea (see below) affect arch-liches, which are of good (or at least non-evil) alignment? Attempting to answer my own question,e I can't see any fiends being helpful but perhaps Nyx and other non-evil (not that there are many) Immortals of Entropy would take an interest; Entropy itself isn't evil after all. Or maybe in Mystara arch-liches draw from a sphere other than Entropy. Would this mean that golems are powered by a Sphere and thus have Titans and Immortals of that Sphere watching them? :) On 24 Nov 97 at 15:50, Ray Brooks wrote: > I brought something like this up in an earlier post. Since only the > very weakest of the undead can actually be created by standard magic, I > suggested that the magic is actually used to open a channel to one or > various powers of entropy. For more powerful undead to be created, the > powers of the sphere of entropy have to take a more direct hand (a pact > being made in the case of a lich, new undead being created by already > established undead in the case of the assorted draining kinds, etc.). > The more powerful magics like create monsters could operate in a similar > way, drawing the attention of various entropic beings. It could then be > used as a plot device on the part of the DM. (Though the necromancer's > magic "creates" legions of undead, some fiend somewhere actually powers > them and is paying attention to what the necromancer does. The fiend > may even have an agenda of his own....) Shane. - --- (to boldly ramble where everyone else has rambled before) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:56:46 +0100 From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics: a treatise (REALLY LONG) OK, this thread has become really interesting and hot and so i've thought "What about making a little research about the Relics to unlock some of their mysteries?". So i went checking thru my books and this is what i found out. I'll share it with you hoping to clarify a bit some of the things which are really difficult to understand (and i speak for myself). PS: thanx to Andrew, Herve and Rolf for their comments. More comments will be welcome. ;) Preface: What is a Relic? Each demi-human community has its Relic, as the old Companion set teaches. But what does it mean exactly? What's the difference between a clan with a relic and another that hasn't got one? From what we can understand of the demi-human cultures reading throughout the various gazetteers and other supplements, the clan is a living entity made of different parts that all contribute to its existence. And the Relic is the HEART of the clan. Now, what happens if your heart is ripped off your body? Simple: you die. The same applies for the elves, the halflings, the dwarves and all the other demihumans who have been raised to praise and value the relic more than their own life. It is a way of life and a way of thinking more than game mechanics we're talking about here. The Relic is the center of the community, the thing that makes people feel united and belonging to the same race, the same world. It is the nexus of everything in life, that which connects together all the members of the clan. It is above all the (in some cases sentient) representative of the deity they worship, of the Higher Being that gave them the life and that constantly watches over them. And the members of each clan can see it and feel its power and presence tangibly every day: it is an eternal testimony of its real existence. Without the Relic, without that everlasting symbol of unity and of blessing, the community inevitably breaks apart and is destined to certain doom. And that's because its members think this in the first place, and if they think it, they will cause their downfall to come true (this attitude is called self-fulfilling prophecy). The Relic gives the members of a clan a reason to live and to have faith in the immortals, and when they haven't it anymore, then there is no more future for them: the world will simply swallow them, it's a matter of time. And so they don't live anymore, but they let themselves survive, maybe hoping that somebody take their relic back to them. However, this is true only of those demi-human communities that have grown into these concepts and ideas, that is to say of those communities who know of the existence of relics and prize them. There can be some demi-human strongholds in faraway places of Mystara that have never heard of a Tree of Life or a Forge of Power and that have learnt to live according to other values (the Kogolors or the Blacklore elves for example): to them the relics are nothing. They could have also developed other kinds of relics. This is fully understandable. But for the same reason we must understand that for those born and raised with complete belief in the religious and social unifying power of the relic, the absence of it is not tolerable. There can simply be no healthy community without a Relic at its heart like there can be no living being without a heart. ELVES The Tree of Life As stated in numerous sources, the first ToL was created by Ilsundal in BC 1800 (GAZ5, page 7). However, it is not clear if it created the ToL before or after he became an Immortal: GAZ5 contradicts itself on this point. "Shortly after they were settled, Ilsundal, the elves' leader, learned the path to become an Immortal in the Sphere of Energy. As his Test, he created the Tree of Life, an Avatar of his power to guide his people" (GAZ5, p.7) Judging from this excerpt it seems he created the ToL as a mortal as part of his Test (see the Paths to Immortality in Master set or WotI) to become immortal. So he was able to imbue the ToL with his life essence even before attaining immortality (a truly unbelievable feat). But then later in the GAZ we read: "The original Tree of Life was created by the Immortal Ilsundal shortly after he became an Immortal in the Sphere of Energy." (GAZ5, p.69) So, in this case Ilsundal has created the ToL AFTER he achieved immortality. What's the truth then? Can a mortal create an item that is a sentient avatar of himself? We know that somebody else could have tried, but it seems he failed: "According to reliable lore, Algorn is actually embodied as a Tree of Life growing in the midst of this magical pocket.[..] years after he was heard from, a new Tree of Life was noticed here which resembled an elf not unlike Algorn the Treekeeper." (GAZ5, p.22) According to the tales then, the Treekeeper Algorn tried to attain immortality but failed, and after his disappearence the elves found a new Magic Place in the midst of which a new previously unknown ToL stood, its shape bearing Algorn's features. Whether it is true or not that this ToL is Algorn, this actually doesn't prove that he was trying to create his own ToL: after all why should he do this? The Test for the Path of Paragon requires the Paragon to craft an entirely unique and new magical item, and the ToL already existed. IMHO, Algorn was trying to perform some kind of other magical experiment that went awry, and in his last minutes, he begged Ilsundal (he was a Treekeeper) to let him stay in the forest to help his people, so Ilsundal turned him into a new ToL. However, this does not help us finding an explanation that regards the nature of the original ToL, and since the canon material TSR gave us isn't helpful either, we'll have to make abductions. My personal explanation is that Ilsundal created the Tree of Life as a unique but non-sentient magical item and then attained immortality. After that, he returned to Mystara (nobody had noticed his brief departure) and transferred part of his immortal spirit into the Mother Tree, creating an artifact which was also a sentient avatar. Then he proclaimed himself the Guide of the Elven Race, giving the Tree to the elves as symbol of his perpetual link with them, and introduce a few wise elves to its mysteries (creating his own clergy of Treekeepers). As the last step, he ascended to the heavens in front of his people to abide forever with the immortals. Now, around AC 800 Mealiden and the Treekeepers asked Ilsundal to make duplicates of the Mother Tree to be brought with them in their long trek westwards and so Ilsundal CREATED other nine seedlings which would later grow into mature original ToL (the first example of avatars that grow older!). We know there are 10 Original ToL in Mystara: one is in the Sylvan Realm (sources: CM7, GAZ5), six were in Alfheim and are now in Karameikos and Wendar, protected by the clans they belong to (sources: GAZ5, WotI), and finally one is in Karameikos, the Callarii's ToL (source: GAZ5). Three are still missing. Where are they? I don't know, but i can tell you for sure where they are not: they're not in Wendar, because the wendarian elves have a totally different history and worship different immortals (source: PWA, the unofficial Wendar timeline by Shawn and me). The Shadow Elves don't have them for the same reasons, and also because if they had had one, they would have used it to save Canolbarth (source: GAZ13). The elves of Minrothad don't have any, because they worship different immortals (source: GAZ9). What elves do remain? Belcadiz elves (GAZ3), Norwold elves (CM1), Alphatia elves (DotE), Isle of Dawn elves (M5), Savage Coast elves (RS), Graakhalia elves (CoM), E'aars (OH), and N'djatwa (ogre/elf crossbreed from Dragon Magazine) if you count them. These are the ones we do know of, but others may exist. In this article i won't address the issue of the missing trees, however: this is left open to the various DMs. A final note regarding the ToL which will introduce my next chapter about another elven relic: "The Verdier elves left their clan tree behind when they emigrated from their homeland. Some say that tree was the inspiration for Ilsundal's later creation, the Tree of Life, familiar to so many mainland elves. [..] Whatever sprig or offshoot of the clan tree wnet with them had perished during their long travels" (GAZ9, p.43) This paragraph is really puzzling. This says that the elves who lived in Evergrun (for this is the homeland of the Verdiers, as one might from the last line which speaks of "long travels") had a special tree of some sort who was considered a relic. So it seems that the elves have always had a tree relic.. or is it? Could it not be instead the influence of what was written in the Companion set on those authors who wrote the gazetteers and the adventure modules that which prompted these lines (as Herve Musseau suggested)? Whatever the truth (and i doubt we will ever know), another simple explanation could be put forward without talking out the game mechanics. We all know the elves originally worshipped Ordana who created them, and we also know that Ordana's symbol is a tree (she herself is viewed as a Tree-Woman). So what if the tree we're talking about here was a tree that Ordana initially gave to all the elves to help them survive in the world? What if it was a tree that gave them neverending fruits and healed those who asked for her help (much like the cornucopia of the greek myths)? Ordana gave it to every community of elves in Evergrun, but when they were forced to flee to Grunland few of the trees survived (if any.. maybe their magic was tied to the land of Evergrun). And after that, when the elves led by Ilsundal undertook the migration northwards, none of those trees were still alive and so the elves had no more relics. This is why Ilsundal has created his artifact: to give the elves a new relic which would have served to unite them again. The Pearl of Power "When Calitha Starbrow ascended to immortality in Evergrun, she created as her Test the Pearl of Power, a living relic that is the close-kept secret of the water elf clans of Minrothad." (GAZ9, p.42) So Calitha is the first elf who attained immortality on Mystara (Ordana is not an elf as you might remember), and she created the Pearl as the new powerful magic item required by the Path of the Paragon. But again the problem posed by the ToL arises: has it always been a living relic or not? And besides, how can a pearl be a living being? A tree is a natural (vegetal) life form, but a pearl is not. So again, this is probably due to the Companion rules about the elven relic, the only one to be sentient among the demi-human relics (and since the Pearl is an elven relic..). But let's go on reading: "A fragment of the Pearl was secretly taken by Poladan Meditor, at that time an assistant keeper of the relic. [..] At first Meditor was secretive about what he had done. For a long time the water elves had no relic at all to speak of, and when the fledgling pearl began to develop, the new keeper and his assistants kept the news to themselves. When the power of the off-shoot relic became noticeable, the keeper was confirmed in his office, but the elves kept the news of their clan relic from their human neighbours." (GAZ9, p.42) Now, given the fact that the pearl reaches maturity (becoming a true sentient relic) after 1d4 centuries, provided it is bathed in sea water monthly (see GAZ9 page 43), the new Pearl should have become sentient around BC 2900-2600 (the elves fled from Evergrun in BC 3000). But the text mentions "human neighbours" and we all know there were none in Grunland (present day Vulcania) around that period. Also it is highly unlikely that Poladan Meditor wasn't alive when this happened, since we all know the lifespan of an elf is really long and when Poladan took the fragment of the Pearl was only an assistant keeper (not older than 200 years IMO). So the Pearl obviously reached maturity in more than four centuries, maybe because Poladan didn't perform the right rituals all the time.. or maybe for another reason which i will explain later. Suppose that the Pearl didn't grow in those four centuries but became sentient AFTER the migration led by Ilsundal: maybe this was the reason why the Meditor left Ilsundal's migration in BC 2100 and settled in Karameikos, because they wanted to keep the Pearl to themselves (the Verdier simply stayed because the enjoyed the climate). But how did the pearl managed to survive for so long during the migration across Davania (remember it must be bathed monthly in sea water)? My answer is: none of the above explanations is true. Consider this: if the Pearl already existed when Ilsundal created his ToL, why did he attain immortality? His ToL would have been nothing so exceptional nor unique if the Pearl already existed and worked the same way. For this reason and also from the bits excerpted from the above quotes, i believe the Pearl was not alive in BC 1800, when Ilsundal created the ToL. My explanation is this: Calitha created a great magic item, the Pearl, back in the Evergrun days, and she left it to her clan as a precious artifact to be used in her name. The Keeper was merely the elf who knew all the powers of the artifact and who could use it as such: the pearl was not sentient at that time. The the Great Rain of Fire came and the elves had to flee. Believing he could use a chunk of the pearl in the same way the Keeper used the whole relic, Poladan stole one bit of it. Then, when he realized it didn't worked as he had planned, he hid it not to be accused of sacrilege, and passed it to his heirs as a great heirloom, never quite revealing its true nature. The Pearl was lost in the migration from Evergrun to Grunland, but a small chunk survived, unknown even to Calitha. And then Ilsundal came and he led the elves northwards: in modern day Karameikos the Verdier and Meditor decided they had had enough of this trek and split from Ilsundal's group, loving the climate and the woods and settling there. Maybe there was some quarrelling between their clanleaders and Ilsundal about his real ability to rule and about where his foolish ideas were going to take them (they had traveled for over 300 years after all, and even elves can get tired of wandering after so much time). Or maybe, as GAZ9 suggests, the two groups were prompted by the Powers of Time whom they honored (probably Calitha and Ordana) to leave Ilsundal's migration and to settle in the lands west of present days Thyatis. Whichever the case, they decided to begin a new life there. In the same century, BC 2100, Ilsundal found the promised land and the elves settled in the Sylvan Realm. In BC 2000 (see PC3 - the date given in GAZ9 is wrong), the Meditor elves were left stranded on the newly formed island of Alfeisle in the Sea of Dread as a consequence of local cataclysms. In BC 1800 Ilsundal attained immortality as i already described. It didn't take him too much time to realize that there were many other elven clans scattered around the world who needed to find a religious guide and inspiration. So he proposed to Calitha and Ordana to give these elves some relics that resembled the old Trees of Ordana or his own Tree of Life, relics that would have constituted the center of the religious and social life of the elves and that would have unified them throughout the world. Obviously, each clan would have had a relic similar to its needs and beliefs, so they began to work. Calitha created the Frond of Life for the Aquarendi imitating Ilsundal's Tree of Life and used one of her mortal identities to do it (Tallivai the Rootmaker). Ordana probably created the Carven Oak (i'll detail it later in this article) for the Verdier who had begun a quest for a relic. The Wendar elves had already their artifact-relic and so had the Shiyes (i assume they too have a relic, although i ignore its powers and aspect). The Shadow Elves were at that time unknown to the Elven Protectors, and even if they were known they were far too different from the normal elves to be helped (and besides, they seemed to already worship another immortal). The Meditors had always been Calitha's followers but they still needed a relic. So Calitha searched for her Pearl of Power to be brought to them again but could not find it anywhere. However, she spotted the remains of it in one of the Meditor's houses, and she proceeded in enchanting it again, this time imbuing it with her lifeforce like she had done with the Frond of Life. She then sent visions to the elf who owned the chunk of the Pearl instructing him of the practices he had to follow to make it grow properly, and so he listened and became the first Pearl Keeper. In about four-five centuries the Pearl grew and reached mature state, becoming fully sentient (BC 1000 ca). By this time, the Nithians led by Minroth had already colonized Trader's Isle. GAZ9 doesn't mention any known relationship between humans and Meditors before AC 276 (GAZ9, p.6), however that line i previously quoted ["the elves kept the news of their clan relic from their human neighbours." (GAZ9, p.42)] is clear: the elves were afraid the human neighbours could discover their relic and so they kept it secret. What i suggest is that maybe the Meditors spotted the Nithian settlements some time after the Pearl Keeper had revealed the existance of the new relic to his clan (around BC 1000), but they shun the Nithians knowing the humans were treacherous and could have used it for foul goals (remember the GRoF). Then, when Nithia was destroyed, the elves were left no memories of them. This is all i have to say about the Pearl of Power: it is very similar to the ToL, it can reproduce like it, it is sentient, and at the moment only one exists (that of the Meditors). It is basically the copy of the ToL, but it's Calitha's relic for the Meditors. The Frond of Life All that PC3: The Sea People accessory mentions about the Frond of Life is this: "Tallivai the Root Maker is the most honored of elven immortals. She is credited with the creation of the first Frond of Life. She represents life and continuity to the elves, and the abundant bounty of the sea." (PC3, page 52) The accessory also specifically says that the Frond of Life is a magical seaweed that has similar powers to a Tree of Life, that each is an Avatar of Tallivai and that is cared by a Frond Keeper (PC3, p.21). It also details the objects that can be manufactured using a Frond. As you can see, it is completely the same as the ToL, but it's been made for the acquatic elves. This doesn't contrast with the theory i explained above (which, i would like to remind you, it's not in contrast with the already contrasting information the various supplements give us: i'm just trying to put the tiles together to obtain a clear image). Just one thing i would like to underline about the Frond. The book says that each Aquarendi settlement has one (like the forest elves), so i infer there can be only one Original Frond (in contrast to the 10 Original ToL), which is held in Kellaalri, the Cavern of the Frond. However, the Cavern is also the place where the Aquarendi worship Manwara (the Old Being of the Sea, Protius), who is not in friendly terms with Calitha. I wonder how this could be possible.. The Carven Oak The true identity of the Creator of the Carven Oak is not revealed in GAZ9, even though the book says: "They had brought with them the Carven Oak, a powerful artifact given to the wood elves by the immortal they follow." (GAZ9, p.43) Since they are elves and since in this case the artifact must bear some resemblance with its creator (it was created to be used as a holy relic), i would say that Ordana is the Immortal worshipped by the Verdier (who follow the ancient traditions and didn't know of Ilsundal's fate since they left him). Also, both Verdiers and Meditors worship Powers of Time (GAZ9, p.4) and Ordana belongs to the Sphere of Time, and if you consider that Ordana's symbol is an Oak Leaf, then it is not so unlikely that my assumption is correct. GAZ9 also says that the Carven Oak is a Greater Artifact of Time and that it possesses none of the powers of common elven relics. However, this doesn't prevent it from being worshipped as a Clan Relic and from having its Keepers. In fact, only the Keeper and his senior assistant know all of the powers, uses and danger of the relic (GAZ9, p.44) and even though the Keeper is listed only as "E6" in the NPC section, i believe he and his assistants can very well be considered normal clerics of Ordana (like Treekeepers, only they are devoted to Ordana). This is due to the kind of worship and devotion the Verdiers have towards their Relic and its creator, which makes its Keepers true priests of the deity. The Egg of the Phoenix This item is only briefly mentioned in an adventure detailed in GAZ5 called "The Missing Artifact". From the title we can easily infer this is a very powerful item, yet it didn't get mentioned in the section of the gazetteer detalining the "Secrets of the Elves", appearing only briefly in the adventure appendix. The only information we have is this: "This is an artifact, said to be the creation of Mealiden - the artifact he created in the process of becoming immortal." (GAZ5, p. 87) Then it goes one detailing the powers of the Egg. Previously in the adventure (at the beginning), it was written that the Egg belonged to the clan Mealidil and that it was considered a "very valuable artifact" (GAZ5, p.85). From this meagre information, what we can deduce is that the Egg is a proper artifact, but it's not considered a "relic" in the real sense of the term. That is, it has no religious power, it is not commonly worshipped as the gift of the immortals: it is only a valuable heirloom with immense powers left to the Mealidil clan by Mealiden. Was a branch of the Mealidil clan to split from the main group and to claim it as its own relic, it would then be worshipped as such, BUT it could not be reproduced like the common ToL, nor it would have the powers of the demi-human relics (unless Mealiden himself altered it like i said Ilsundal and Calitha have done). However, there could be a special Egg keeper with the charge of taking care of the Egg and with the knowledge to activate its powers, but this would not have the powers of any Treekeeper Elf (spellcasting abilities and so on), unless Mealiden himself granted him such skills because of his devotion (very likely if the devotion is sincere: after all Mealiden has no clergy of his own yet, which is very strange for an Immortal). The Elvenstar And we finally arrive to examine the Elvenstar, one of the most controverse and mysterious artifacts of the elven race. The Elvenstar is introduced and featured only in X11: Saga of the Shadowlord, but its powers have never been described fully (or i shall say clearly). It is indeed an artifact and it can be used by anyone, although it has many drawbacks for those Chaotic people who attempt to use it. However, it can be considered (and in fact i have done so) a real Relic of the Wendar and Denagoth elves. X11 tells us that the Geffronell elves gave the Elvenstar to Bensarian of Kevar when he gave them the Blackstick to hide it. The Elvenstar is a precious and unique item, an artifact to be precise (even though by the time X11 came out the Master set rules for artifacts were not out yet, so it was not described using those rules). It seems really strange then that the elves of Geffron had bestowed it upon Bensarian as a simple gesture of friendship (also considered the fact that elves are not so openly friendly towards humans after the GRoF). True, he was a respected sage and a renowned friend of the elves, and he also seems to have elven blood in his lineage from his physical description. However, this is still an incredible event for the elves to give a human their relic. So what? Maybe the elves ignored the true power of the Elvenstar? Maybe it was not a relic for them? Very unlikely, since the elves of that region (Geffron) had owned and used it for decades if not centuries, and they were not a naive folk (note that they live in a very turbulent region full of humanoids and other dangers). Shawn and i thought about all these incongruencies and tried to give them a plausible explanation in our Timeline for the Wendar-Denagoth region (you can read it in my homepage at this URL: ). Also, since we saw that the Wendar elves had no relic whatsoever, i proposed to give them the Elvenstar as such, as a gift from their patron immortals the Korrigans. The Elvenstar is not a relic in the real sense of the term (that is, it possesses none of the powers of the demihuman relics as described in the Companion set). In fact it is much more similar to the Carven Oak (an artifact worshipped as a heirloom left by the Patron immortals), even though in this case its powers are more important to the people of Wendar than its religious value. Without it, Wendar would be doomed (like the Geffronell elves have been), and the elves (and humans too) know it. For this reason it is highly prized and revered, for the life of Wendar depends on it. Yet there is no Keeper of the Elvenstar, and if there ever was one, now it's the King of Wendar's duty to keep it and to use it to help all the people of the region (even though the elves feel it's their right to have the priority over the use of the artifact). Should the Wizard King pass this duty to somebody else in the future (most probably an elf follower of the Korrigans), he will then become the new Keeper of the Star and a priest of the Korrigans too. Note about the Foresthomes I do second Herve's opinion about this issue. Here's the complete quote: " CM1 is an old module that was based on the green box, before Mystara was really described (notably by the Gaz series), and the green box states that each elven clan has a Tree of Life. But we know that many elven clans have no ToL, and that some don't even have a relic (eg the Shadow Elves, or any of the HW elves). Trees of Life in later Mystara products were tied to Ilsundal, and elves with different histories and faiths were given other relics (eg the Carven Oak). So I (but you may disagree and handle it differently IYC) assume that pre-Gaz accessories should have the phrase "Tree of Life" replaced by "clan relic", and that post-Gaz accessories have the phrase "Tree of Life" actually mean one of Ilsundal's Tree of Life (including daughter trees). " [end quote] The Foresthomes were introduced in module CM1, a module printed shortly after Companion set was released. Since the adventure detailed the elves of the north too, the author (Douglas Niles) probably thought it good to stick to what had been published previously. Thus he gave the Norwold elves (later called Shiye in DotE, belonging to the clan that settled in Alphatia in BC 800) the Tree of Life as their relic, following the guidelines given in Companion set (Player's Book). However, on account of later and more canonic products (i.e. the Gazetteers) and of the arguments emerged in our conversation, it seems to me that CM1 has never really explained WHY there were ToL up there, and instead of giving us the final answer, DotE contributed to spread further chaos in this already intricated story. This way, we must reason with our logic and take into consideration the different elven cultures that have been so far detailed in the Mystara supplements: if we do admit the possibility of an elven culture without a ToL (and we saw there are some even in the Old World), then we must also allow ourselves the benefit of the doubt, so to speak. There is no clear reason to assume the Norwold Shiye have a ToL if we look at their history. Probably what Douglas Niles wanted to say is that they have a relic, but as we've seen not all the elves' relics are ToL. For this reason i believe the Norwold elves should have a different relic, maybe Eiryndul's relic (if any). However, if you do support the theory they've got a ToL, then it must certainly be one of the missing ToL of the legend. Note about the Chamber of the Spheres Following the thread to its logical end then, we couldn't possibly avoid to spend a few words for the Shadow Elves. When GAZ13 first came out, i think many of you may have felt a chill run down their spine. "Gee.. underground elves.. cool! Hey, but wait! These are not drow elves! Even Cooler! And see this: they haven't got Fungi of Life! *sigh of relief*" That could have been a possible series of thought of those who read for the first time GAZ13, and fortunately now we can joke about this. But if the writers of GAZ13 had sticked to canon and followed the guidelines given in Companion set, we would probably be here now talking about the Fungi of Life and of their growth methods above ground. Carl Sargent and Gary Thomas have done a masterful job with the Shadow Elves, creating a race unique in its beliefs and customs but that fitted perfectly with the intricate Mystara timeline. They recognized that they had to bend some rules and that the Shadow Elves culture was not like the common elven way of life, and so they tried to supply to the lack of a powerful relic with something else. And thus the Chamber of the Spheres was born. Sure, many of you will object when i say the CoS is the Shadow Elves' relic: after all, only the shamans know of its existence, so it doesn't really fit into my previous description of a typical demihuman relic. But the Shadow Elves aren't really a typical demihuman society, or are they? So what i'm trying to explain is that the Shadow Elves have a relic at the heart of their community too, but only some of them (the shamans) know of its existence, and amongst them only the highest ranking shamans know of its real power and use. But nevertheless, since this is a gift from Rafiel and since Rafiel is the soul of the shadowelves, then this is a true relic for them. Think about it: the center of the religious life of the shadowelves is Rafiel's temple, and the Prime Temple is the one built in the City of Stars within the Refuge of Stone. So this is the fulcrum of the shadowelves religion: and what lies hidden in the core of this temple? The secret heart within the heart: as you can see, my theory is not that outrageous.. Ok, that's all for this topic. Before sending you the article bout the other demihuman relics however, (notably the dwarven one will heat the debate, i'm sure) i'd like to see how you reacted to this one and if you share my point of view about the elven relics. So please, feedback is welcome (as usual). Socrates docet.. DM ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #212 ***************************** From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #213 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, November 26 1997 Volume 02 : Number 213 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:27:35 +0100 From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Re: shadowelves in german Rolf wrote: >The Problem is, that I have only one good translation and this is >Schattenelfen" (or "Schattenelben"). You see, the TSR authors obviously tried >to use a German word (not quite correct, but they may wanted it so). Well, why not to let the Schattenalfen "Schattenalfen" and name the Shadowelves "Elfen des Finsternis" or "Schattenerle(n)"? DM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:40:15 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Undead and Day of Dread Inconu wrote: >I think the list you came up with was great. It also provides an interesting >outlook on mages being kept alive with magic. Perhaps attaining lichdom is a >way to avoid death for those elderly wizards on the DoD? Care to sell your soul >for eternal life? Thanx a lot, Inconu. I'm glad you liked it. However i wouldn't support your theory: too much liches to roam Mystara if they followed your advice.. :) Anyway, regarding old wizards and DoD, the point is this: as Bruce already explained in a Dragon article, there are some wizards who have been made younger with permanent incantations and others that have used temporary enchantments. Thus during the Week of No Magic and DoD only the those who used a temporary magical effect died, the other being preserved as usual (don't ask me how). I think Terari was one of these, as well as Eriadna (i know she was already dead): otherwise they would have been reduced to ashes because of their real age, and no resurrection or Wish could have worked in this case. DM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:03:56 -0500 From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics: a treatise (REALLY LONG) Bravo DM! VERY well done. I am impressed. Definitely something to print out and contemplate for a long time. Please do go ahead with the other demihuman relics. I look forward to reading about them. ray ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:22:36 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ethengar On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > There are a couple of things in Ethengar that should probably be resolved > soon. One is Ortu, Moglai's cousin, plotting to usurp power (surely he > isn't going to wait till he is an old man to act); the other is Kadan > Khan/Jaku the Render thing. Almanac people, have you considered doing > anything with these? Well, I know that we took care of one plot or two from the Ethengar Gazetteer in last year's almanac; the one mentioned in the back of the book as a possible adventure, which leads into the Ethengarian/Glantrian war that Moglai declares towards the end of the year. As for the other bits, I'm not sure that we've done anything explicitly with those two yet, though it's entirely possible that they'll be making their move soon (likely, even). - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:39:55 -0500 (EST) From: StarHawk Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: shadowelves in german Why don't you simply reverse them? Use the English for the HW Elves (the foreign word for English speaking players) and the German (or TSR approximation) for the KW Elves (who are normally named in the language of the rest of the text)? On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, DM wrote: > Rolf wrote: > >The Problem is, that I have only one good translation and this is > >Schattenelfen" (or "Schattenelben"). You see, the TSR authors obviously > tried >to use a German word (not quite correct, but they may wanted it so). > > Well, why not to let the Schattenalfen "Schattenalfen" and name the > Shadowelves "Elfen des Finsternis" or "Schattenerle(n)"? > > DM > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:46:29 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics: a treatise (REALLY LONG) On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, DM wrote: > PS: thanx to Andrew, Herve and Rolf for their comments. More comments will > be welcome. ;) How about these, then? :) > ELVES > > The Tree of Life > Now, around AC 800 Mealiden and the Treekeepers asked Ilsundal to make > duplicates of the Mother Tree to be brought with them in their long trek > westwards and so Ilsundal CREATED other nine seedlings which would later > grow into mature original ToL (the first example of avatars that grow > older!). We know there are 10 Original ToL in Mystara: one is in the Sylvan > Realm (sources: CM7, GAZ5), six were in Alfheim and are now in Karameikos > and Wendar, protected by the clans they belong to (sources: GAZ5, WotI), and > finally one is in Karameikos, the Callarii's ToL (source: GAZ5). On the nature of the other ToL, perhaps they were created not as Ilsundal's avatar (like the original ToL), but like you hypothesized for Algorn, they were created from the spirits of other elven Treekeepers? Perhaps they had served Ilsundal well, or did something like Algorn (failed attempt at Immortality) and were rewarded with being turned into Trees of Life? In this respect, they may be seen in a similar manner to Titans, or other Exalted-type creatures? > Three are still missing. Where are they? I don't know, but i can tell you > for sure where they are not: they're not in Wendar, because the wendarian > elves have a totally different history and worship different immortals > (source: PWA, the unofficial Wendar timeline by Shawn and me). The Shadow > Elves don't have them for the same reasons, and also because if they had had > one, they would have used it to save Canolbarth (source: GAZ13). The elves > of Minrothad don't have any, because they worship different immortals > (source: GAZ9). What elves do remain? Belcadiz elves (GAZ3), Norwold elves > (CM1), Alphatia elves (DotE), Isle of Dawn elves (M5), Savage Coast elves > (RS), Graakhalia elves (CoM), E'aars (OH), and N'djatwa (ogre/elf crossbreed > from Dragon Magazine) if you count them. These are the ones we do know of, > but others may exist. In this article i won't address the issue of the > missing trees, however: this is left open to the various DMs. I do note (from information gleaned during my compilation of sources for my timeline) that in one of the Dragon issues #175, I believe, where the Savage Coast is introduced, Bruce Heard notes that some elves abandoned the Mealiden (or was it Ilsundal?) migration and settle in the Savage Coast. Most were destroyed by Wogar's horde, but a few remained north of the Great Escarpment. Maybe they do have one in the SC? (I don't know how the original Dragon SC info jibes with the AD&D SC info, though). > Whatever the truth (and i doubt we will ever know), another simple > explanation could be put forward without talking out the game mechanics. We > all know the elves originally worshipped Ordana who created them, and we > also know that Ordana's symbol is a tree (she herself is viewed as a > Tree-Woman). So what if the tree we're talking about here was a tree that > Ordana initially gave to all the elves to help them survive in the world? Or even, along those lines, perhaps a Treant guardian or something similar- an intelligent (like the semi-intelligent ToL) tree-like creature who watched over the elves (as the HW set mentions the elves were sheltered). > What if it was a tree that gave them neverending fruits and healed those who > asked for her help (much like the cornucopia of the greek myths)? Ordana > gave it to every community of elves in Evergrun, but when they were forced > to flee to Grunland few of the trees survived (if any.. maybe their magic > was tied to the land of Evergrun). And after that, when the elves led by > Ilsundal undertook the migration northwards, none of those trees were still > alive and so the elves had no more relics. This is why Ilsundal has created > his artifact: to give the elves a new relic which would have served to unite > them again. This one just occurred to me. Many mythologies have Trees in them (the Norse World Tree, I believe some Greek myths, though I can't recall them offhand). Maybe as you say there was an "uber" Tree of some sort given them by Ordana- but maybe there was only *one*; a giant, sheltering, cornucopia tree. When Evergrun collapsed, it was presumed destroyed, but maybe it was just changed- there are still wild elves down there... - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:05:08 -0500 (EST) From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim + Maps In a message dated 97-11-26 03:13:44 EST, you write: << << You're right. The maps don't fit. There are significant contradictions, mainly between the small-scale and the large-scale maps. That peninsula in the Heldannic Territories, for instance. Or the Denagoth plateau, which is just not visible on any of the maps of Norwold, even though it should be. Sometimes, even in the same source, there are discrepancies. The two maps that come with Wrath of the Immortals do not agree. I keep meaning to do a "corrected" map for this area for my own campaign, but I never seem to find the time. >> I too, but if I only could find a little time to get finished with my north-western Brun maps, then I had a complete set of 24 miles maps. Maybe on Christmas holidays. BTW, don't attack me with answers about the maps, I still don't have a scanner. >> I do have a map I made with an 8 mile hex scale to fix the the Heldann-Norwold-Denagoth map problem, unfortunately I also don't have a scanner, but have been working here and there at putting it on my computer, just haven't had much time (sigh). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:08:47 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics: a treatise (REALLY LONG) DM pontificated: > Whatever the truth (and i doubt we will ever know), another simple > explanation could be put forward without talking out the game mechanics. We > all know the elves originally worshipped Ordana who created them, and we > also know that Ordana's symbol is a tree (she herself is viewed as a > Tree-Woman). So what if the tree we're talking about here was a tree that > Ordana initially gave to all the elves to help them survive in the world? > What if it was a tree that gave them neverending fruits and healed those who > asked for her help (much like the cornucopia of the greek myths)? Ordana > gave it to every community of elves in Evergrun, but when they were forced > to flee to Grunland few of the trees survived (if any.. maybe their magic > was tied to the land of Evergrun). And after that, when the elves led by > Ilsundal undertook the migration northwards, none of those trees were still > alive and so the elves had no more relics. This is why Ilsundal has created > his artifact: to give the elves a new relic which would have served to unite > them again. I remember reading a line somewhere (Gaz 4?) that Ilsundal believed in the Tree of Life legend so much that he became immortal to make it come true. So, your explaination works nicely that among the Elves, there were still story regarding to the Tree that Ordana granted to them earlier, and when Ilsundal decided to became an immortal, he created a magical item based on the old myth. BTW, a real nice piece of work. Thanks. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:40:23 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: [Mystara] Emerond In einer eMail vom 24.11.97 21:46:15 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << So if I am correct about the King of Emerond being a 15th level druid, he is the only one on Mystara. >> BTW, very little is known about the history of the Emerondians. What's about following idea: When the Beagle crashed on Mystara, the captain had to realize that the Beagle would never fly again and sent his crew to suspended animation. Over the years the crew of the Beagle started to develop an interest in magic. The Emerondians came from the void. Why not make the link, that some member of the Beagle crew aquired enough magic to leave Mystara and returned to the void, where they finally settled. Their ancestors again left the void and returned to Mystara. There's one big point which speaks for this idea: The Beagles and Emerondians both have green skin! Rolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:40:26 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim + Maps In einer eMail vom 25.11.97 02:14:15 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << Look no farther! I am currently drawing an 8-mile hex map of the Denagoth Plateau - to be added to this year's almanac - if thiis is what you seek. I am also working on a more "cannon" map of Norwold - hopefully one that overcomes these technicalities. >> Looks o.k.! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:40:27 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Power Vacuum in Mystara In einer eMail vom 25.11.97 09:59:27 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << Has anyone noticed that there is currentl a large power vacuum in the KW? The WDL is not realy very effective, considering that 2 of its members have dropped out and that its one major crisis was a huge failure. Thyatis, as I see it, while pretty stable now, will soon be running into civil strife. Its legions have been handed defeat after defeat since the Alphatian Spike Assualt almost 60 years ago, it no longer has an external enemy to unite its population, and its most recent conquest, a few nations on the IoD, seem more like 1000 AC Karameikos, practicaly independent. NACE is probaly one of the most powerful nations right now, but is further away and seems unlikely to dominate world affairs due to its lack of a leader . Just a few thoughts, so no flames please :) >> What' s about following: Karameikos, Darokin and the Five Shires made the final counterattack against Hule, free Sind and storm in a holy crusade through the Sind Desert to build a crusader state in the Black Mountains (there's an old monastery which could be a center of a new founded knightly order, you remember?). Than they could make ties to Yavdlom and the City States. And now something for all who reject this idea as too devastating, too fantastic, too crusader-like. Jerendi could join the WDL, Glantri could return from isolation, and, if anybody uses the Hydra Day scenario, Minrothad too. BTW, after a peaceful union of Alfheim and Aengmor this country could be a candidate too. As the previous speaker said, "just a few thoughts, so no flames please" Rolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:15:05 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mighty historical figures In einer eMail vom 26.11.97 09:04:42 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << What about the Empire of Dorfin IV? :) >> And don't forget the Empire of the Great Khan! Rolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:15:02 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Power Vacuum in Mystara In einer eMail vom 25.11.97 18:56:39 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << Yes, the NACE is quite powerful. In fact, I had it regain strength quite quickly in 1013-1014 so it won't left too much of a power vacuum, and to counterbalance Thyatis. However the NACE does still have problems of its own - mostly internal problems as a result of Alphatia's sinking, and the military hazard of Thaytis (which may always turn onto the NACE). >> Anybody noticed, that the great time of Bellissaria might come right know? It stood in the shadow of Big Alphatia for almost 2000 years, but is now the greatest land mass in Alphatia (without the HW of course). Rolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:39:51 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Power Vacuum in Mystara On Wed, 26 Nov 1997 RRossmanek@aol.com wrote: > What' s about following: Karameikos, Darokin and the Five Shires made the > final counterattack against Hule, free Sind and storm in a holy crusade > through the Sind Desert to build a crusader state in the Black > Mountains (there's an > old monastery which could be a center of a new > founded knightly order, you remember?). Than they could make ties to > Yavdlom and the City States. Probably not very likely for a couple of reasons- 1) The WDL is, as has been mentioned, a defensive alliance. If they were to take initiate actions against outside aggressors, it would certainly throw the state of political affairs in the Known World into a great big mess. 2) Darokin isn't exactly suited to staging a full scale war against anyone, particularly at the moment. They are still recovering from the Great War, and have the Shadow Elves and other menaces (or potential menaces) to concern themselves with at the moment. 3) The Shires weren't threatened by Hule (though if the Master came back they might be) and so probably wouldn't see any point in an aggressive attack hundreds of miles away on his territory. Still, though, I agree that it is high time Sind threw off the shackles of the Master, and events of the past few years (and this year) should help to make this come to a conclusion and we can have a free Sind once more (which should undoubtedly join the WDL). At that point, we can truly begin to concentrate on expanding the WDL's interests across to the west, particularly among those nations with interests against Hule (Yavdlom, Sind, Slagovich, Zvornik, etc.) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:56:24 EST From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Royal Castle In a message dated 97-11-26 03:29:47 EST, you write: << In our last gaming session, the PCs visited Ierendi City, and then I realized that the royal castle was not marked anywhere on the city plan! Did anyone notice it, and if so, where did you put it? (I think the GAZ mentions that it's right on the shore) >> How fortunate that I was just reading through GAZ4 before reading your post. Under the Adventurers' Club Headquarters entry is this: "...this formidable keep was turned over to the Adventurers' Club when the new Royal Castle was built in the Beverly Boulevard section south of the center of town." Later it goes on (in the Residential Areas section) "...is the southern oceanfront section of town known as "Beverly Boulevard."" The section on The Castle of Ierendi metions that it is visible from the sea and built on a small raised section of land almost right on the coast. From these I would conclude that it is south of the map included showing the City of Ierendi. On a side note: is it just me or does Ierendi feel somewhat like Hollywood (could be one of the reasons I have mostly ignored Ierendi). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:45:14 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [Mystara] Ultima Online Info Mystarans: The following info was sent to me by a co-worker. I appologize that this information is not exactly 'Mystara' related, but I thought that the individuals at this venu would appreciate knowing about it. :-) >Have you guys checked out the Ultima Online web site at: > > http://www.owo.com/ > >If not, do so. Truly impressive. The site is impressive. The game looks >amazing. The world itself resides on multiple servers encompassing 35 Gigs(!) >of drive space. It apparently takes 10 hours to walk across the world and >takes 38000 17" monitors to display it! > I've checked out the web site and BOY-OH-BOY does it sound like a cool game! We're talking about a REAL, online, RPG Fantasy World. You can even customize your character, join with others, go adventuring together, seek out quests and more!! The downside is some of the 'minimum requirements': ouch --> * Pentium 133 * 16M RAM * Windows 95 * 1M PCI video card w/ DirectX Support (set to 16-bit color) * 16-bit sound card w/ DirectX Support ouch --> * 261M hard drive space * 4x CD-ROM drive * Microsoft-compatible mouse * Slip/PP or direct connect at 14.4k BPS or better with 32-bit TCP/IP stack (The large amount of HD space is because they load a lot of the artwork used to create characters from the CD onto your HD. They found this makes the game run at a more acceptable speed -- pulling the info of the CD, especially a 4x CD was just too slow. If you look at the 'recommended requirements' the processor goes up to a P166, Ram goes up to 32M and the HD space goes up to 550M!) Still, check out the site -- it certainly gives one pause for thought.... Visions of the future in network FRG gaming are dancing before my eyes. :-) Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:49:46 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ultima Online Info On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: > The downside is some of the 'minimum requirements': I've read some posts on the Ultima Online newsgroup (rec.games.computer.ultima.online- I think that's it) that some of the users have been able to play effectively with less than the 'minimum' requirements. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:06:29 -0500 From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ultima Online Info > Still, check out the site -- it certainly gives one pause for thought.... > > Visions of the future in network FRG gaming are dancing before my eyes. :-) > > Jenni I saw a news article on some TV program about this just a couple of days ago. They interviewed the original creators of Ultima. It sounds absolutely incredible! Just imagine, Virtual Mystara! Take a walk from the burning sands of Sind to the glaciers of Norwold, all before your very eyes! ... perchance to dream ... ray ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:09:03 +0001 From: "subZero" Subject: [Mystara] Re: Schattenalfen > I think Schattenalfen wasn't supposed to be German, but some nordic language. > IIRC the danish word for Elf is Alf and the plural may well be Alfen (I > don't speak Danish). Same as Alfheim that should translate into Elves Home > or something like that. > Actually the Danish word for Elf is Elver and in plural it is Elvere. although maybe in some of the old supplements it is Alf (plural Alfer) Lars - -- - Lars Lauridsen subzero@post9.tele.dk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:30:36 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ultima Online Info At 12:49 PM 11/26/97 -0700, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: > >> The downside is some of the 'minimum requirements': > >I've read some posts on the Ultima Online newsgroup >(rec.games.computer.ultima.online- I think that's it) that some of the >users have been able to play effectively with less than the 'minimum' >requirements. Do you happen to recall what kind of system they did have? If I thought my system would handle it, I'd put in a request for a Christmas Gift ;-) Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com ------------------------------ Date: 26 Nov 1997 14:39:46 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Ultima Online Info >>>>> "J" == Jenni A M Merrifield writes: J> The downside is some of the 'minimum requirements': There's also one which they don't mention. Like many MUDs, I gather you need to spend _lots_ and _lots_ of time on there if you want your character to be "successful". That kills one of the best things about RPGs that I know, that the game timescale and real timescale are independant. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted "But what we need to know is, do people want nasally-insertable computers?" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:39:07 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Power Vacuum in Mystara At 18.38 25/11/97 -0600, Aaron E Nowack wrote: >>, and the Shadow Elves, who, despite their internal >>troubles >>(civil war, many many events for the next almanac) have one of the >>largest empire, controlling land above and below ground, knowing >>routes >>to every nation of the KW and even to the HW. > >Not just civil strife. Its the City of the Stars vs. Rafielton vs. >Aengmor vs. the Alfhiem Avengers vs. surface elves who want to live in >peace vs. "No compromise!" SE Exactly, but the civil war mentioned in last years almanac is the most ovious symptom that something is wrong in the Shadow Elf community. > >I don't see any way, barring Rafiel and Ilsundal interceeding, that this >can be settled in the near future. ... so you'll be disappointed in next almanac events... :) I'm not going to spoil 1015 events, but I've seen a way to settle at least some of those conflicts... though this is going to make the other "vs." even stronger. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:08:37 +0100 From: Deathwatch Naranek Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ultima Online Info At 15:06 26-11-97 -0500, you wrote: >> Still, check out the site -- it certainly gives one pause for thought.... >> >> Visions of the future in network FRG gaming are dancing before my eyes. :-) >> >> Jenni > >I saw a news article on some TV program about this just a couple of days >ago. They interviewed the original creators of Ultima. It sounds >absolutely incredible! > >Just imagine, Virtual Mystara! Take a walk from the burning sands of >Sind to the glaciers of Norwold, all before your very eyes! > >... perchance to dream ... > > ray The problem would be the map, and the large number of towns and NPCs. The Ultima world is a lot smaller than the whole Known World...but...it would RULE... (But, if TST/WotC would do something like that, it would probably be Forgotten Realms) Oh well, lets dream on... Bas van Doornspeek - deathw@xs4all.nl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:23:44 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: shadowelves in german Hi! To help Rolf, and explain the problem, which I also had. If you play D&D in german the Shadowelves are "Schattenelfen", so if you have to name the "schattenalfen" yozu would probably take another name to distinquish between them! >Well, why not to let the Schattenalfen "Schattenalfen" and name the >Shadowelves "Elfen des Finsternis" or "Schattenerle(n)"? That would be "Elfen der Finsternis"! Anw why "Erlen"= (Which means alder!) I like FabrizioŽs "Elfi dell'Ombra" very much, taken into one word, like "Alfdelombra" or something! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:23:33 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Schattenalfen At 21.09 26/11/97 +0001, you wrote: > >Actually the Danish word for Elf is Elver and in plural it is >Elvere. although maybe in some of the old supplements it is Alf >(plural Alfer) Oh.. sorry. I found it in a dictionary, but, as I said, I don't speak Danish... - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 97 16:32:27 EST From: Dave Brohman Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ultima Online Info Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One writes: > On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >> The downside is some of the 'minimum requirements': > I've read some posts on the Ultima Online newsgroup > (rec.games.computer.ultima.online- I think that's it) that some of the > users have been able to play effectively with less than the 'minimum' > requirements. How much less? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Brohman E-Mail : dbrohman@chat.carleton.ca Carleton University ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:47:01 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: [Mystara] Mystara renewal project. > Wotc/Tsr planned supplement for this year is Rumored to be the official > 1014 A.C. Almanac, or a supplement to one of the Gazeteers possibly > Darokin or Thyatis as a boxed set. Where did you learn this? I don't mean to sound sceptical because it would be great if it turns out to be true; I'm just curious. Dragon #241 mentions that some discontinued worlds might get a single supplement per year, but it only mentions Spelljammer and Dark Sun. It doesn't mention Mystara (which doesn't necessarily mean that they're not considering Mystara). I Called TSR, and told them i had a question for Mr. Bruce Heard. They pass the call to him, and I Asked as to what might revived from the Article, he said they are currently planning, but he believes it might be the Almanac, or a lower price Gazetteer update, using one of the strong nations like Darokin or Thyatis. Heldanner was a possibility that he doubt to it's far location. Two years ago, when i asked about the almanacs, he said they had their's done all the way to 1015, and were working on 1016 before the line was put on hiatus. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:59:50 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Ultima Online Info Alan Shutko pontificated: > > There's also one which they don't mention. Like many MUDs, I gather > you need to spend _lots_ and _lots_ of time on there if you want your > character to be "successful". That kills one of the best things about > RPGs that I know, that the game timescale and real timescale are > independant. I read about it in a game magzine before it came out. Based on the article, there are some build in mechanism to prevent people with more time (and less life) from dominating the game. One thing I remember they mentioned is that skills that you don't use will became worse over time. So no one can become an expert at everything. Happy Thanksgiving to all the U.S. friends on the list. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:52:13 -0800 From: abaddon Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim + Maps Geoff Gander wrote: > Look no farther! I am currently drawing an 8-mile hex map of the Denagoth Thank you Geoff, and hurry up! ;) my players are going to explore the plateau! Jan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:12:50 -0800 From: abaddon Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages CRlPTONITE@aol.com wrote: > > The councils of 36 level mages in Thyatis and Alphatia are driving me crazy. > 1000 of them in Alphatia and I believe its 250 in Thyatis are obviously too > much. > When this conversation came up before i agreed with the thought that not all > are 36th level. Instead they are from name level up to 36th level. > But DMs list of name level Mystaran Mages makes even this look unrealistic. > He names 245 mages from all over the planet who have made apperances in any > printed Mystara material. Only 17 are 36th level. > So this is about the size of the Thyatin council. > Now imagine all these mages working together (Brannart, Jaggar, Eriadna, > Barimoor, the D'Ambreville family, Haldemar, Terari, Porphyriel, etc...). > Then imagine Alphatias council being 4 times that size. > Alphatia could have quickly conquered Mystara with 4 of every mage on DMs > list! > > Any suggestions for a better way to handle the councils? The "Dawn of the Emperors" boxed set states that today the Alphatians' aptitude to magic is fading. I think that in the beginning there was much more magical power in Alphatia, thus both the "36th level" and "1000" were taken as the maximum limits for the Grand Council. Now the number of mages in the council is much smaller, and mages of lower level have been admitted. However most of the mages of Alphatia are not interested in such a silly thing as politics, and have no desire to conquer the world (even if they think they are the best!). Above all they want to increase their arcane knowledge. I'd like to know in which source is stated that a similar council exist in Thyatis for I have missed it. Gianluca Tesi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:07:10 -0500 (EST) From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [Mystara] Re: In a message dated 97-11-26 04:08:39 EST, RRossmanek@aol.com writes: << As I see, you don't have a better neither. The Problem is, that I have only one good translation and this is "Schattenelfen" (or "Schattenelben"). You see, the TSR authors obviously tried to use a German word (not quite correct, but they may wanted it so). >> Maybe you could simply switch the names -- translate "Shadow Elf" into German and then actually write the English "Shadow Elf" for the Hollow World variant. If you want one in your local vernacular language and one in a strange sounding foreign language, that should do it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:12:04 -0800 From: David Keyser Subject: [Mystara] The latest comprehensive index Here is the updated index of Mystara products. I have added a few things, and have greatly expanded the Clark Ashton Smith section. I pulled out the following things from the last index I sent to the list. Dragon Magazine #48 Dragon's Den Adventure Pack Monster & Treasure Assortment, Set One Monster & Treasure Assortment, Set Two Monster & Treasure Assortment, Set Three These are not really meant or compatible for Mystara, except for the Dragon's Den Pack. But the Pack is not explicitly set in Mystara, it's style places it more with Thunder Rift products, though it is not set there. Dave Keyser This page includes all TSR D&D and AD&D products which use or mention Mystara. It extends to other products, not necessarily produced by TSR, if they provide information on the campaign world of Mystara. A few products have also been included which are compatible with Mystara. So while novels, computer games, home-spun adventures and products adventures and products from other companies are(or can be) included, products like minatures or the SpellFire! game are not included, as they have no additional information that cannot be found within the materials listed below. At this time, only the net resources at TSR are provided, but there is a wealth of information provided by Mystara fans on the web. Definition of Terms Explicit - The item is directly and explicitly placed in Mystara. "Canon" material. Implicit - The item does not define where in Mystara it exists, but is linked to Mystara because it is part of the same series, or contains material which is only found in Mystara. Compatible - The item is not set within Mystara, but is compatible with and easily placed in Mystara. This includes non-Mystara D&D material. Thunder Rift material is not included, due to personal prejudice. Suggested - The item is not quite compatible, but methods and suggestions are made so that the item can be placed in Mystara. Mentioned - The item has very brief mention of Mystara, with information useful to Mystaran DMs. For example, Planescape or Ravenloft products may include a character or setting from Mystara. Unknown - At this time, I do not know if the product is related to Mystara or not. Vaporware - The material was announced by TSR at some point in time, but in fact the project was never completed nor published. The ACCESSORY Series This series began before Mystara was recognized as a campaign world. Some of the products here were retroactively placed in Mystara. AC6 is not included because it only contained player character sheets, and there never was an AC8. Code Title Description Setting in Mystara AC1 The Shady Dragon Inn Campaign Source Implicit AC2 Combat Shield Rules Supplement/Adventure Explicit AC3 The Kidnapping of Princess Arelina Adventure Implicit AC4 Book of Marvelous Magic Rules Supplement Compatible AC5 Revenge of Rusak Adventure Implicit AC7 Master Players Screen Rules Supplement/Adventure Implicit AC9 Creature Catalog Rules Supplement Implicit AC10 Bestiary of Dragons and Giants Campaign Source Explicit AC11 The Book of Wondrous Inventions Rules Supplement Explicit The ALMANAC Series The almanacs documented Mystara in the years 1010-1013 AC. Although much of the information in the almanacs were reprinted material, they provided a timeline of events for each year. Code Title Description Setting in Mystara AC1010 Poor Wizards's Almanac Campaign Source Explicit AC1011 Poor Wizard's Almanac II Campaign Source Explicit AC1012 Poor Wizards's Almanac III Campaign Source Explicit Joshuan's Almanac Campaign Source Explicit The BASIC Series Code Title Description Setting in Mystara Yr 1981 Dungeones & Dragons Basic Set Rules Supplement Explicit Yr 1983 Dungeones & Dragons Basic Rules Set 1 Rules Supplement Explicit B1 In Search of the Unknown Adventure Implicit B2 The Keep on the Borderlands Adventure Implicit B3 The Palace of the Silver Princess Adventure Implicit B4 The Lost City Adventure Explicit B5 Horror on the Hill Adventure Implicit B6 The Veiled Society Adventure Explicit B7 Rahasia Adventure Implicit B8 Journey to the Rock Adventure Implicit B9 Castle Caldwell and Beyond Adventure Implicit B1-9 In Search of Adventure Adventure Explicit B10 Night's Dark Terror Adventure Explicit B11 King's Festival Adventure Explicit B12 Queen's Harvest Adventure Explicit BSOLO Ghost of Lion Castle Adventure Explicit The BLACKMOOR Series DW refers to Different Worlds magazine, which printed a two-part adventure set in Blackmoor, written by Dave Arneson. JG refers to Judges Guild, which printed a pre-AD&D description of Blackmoor to be set in the JG world. I have not included the Blackmoor book(TSR #2004A) which was published way back in 1975. It is mostly a rules supplement for the then brand-new D&D game, with only a partial description of the adventure fully described in DA2. Note, I am not including the Domesday Book #13 issue, which has an article on Blackmoor. I don't know for sure, but I believe that the information contained in that magazine was most likely included in the DA modules or in the Judges Guild supplement. I have added an appendix at the end for those who don't know what the Domesday Book is. Code Title Description Setting in Mystara DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor Adventure Explicit DA2 Temple of the Frog Adventure Explicit DA3 City of the Gods Adventure Explicit DA4 The Duchy of Ten Adventure Explicit DA5 City of Blackmoor Adventure Vaporware DW #42 Garbage Pits of Despair, Part I Adventure Implicit DW #43 Garbage Pits of Despair, Part II Adventure Implicit JG The First Fantasy Campaign Campaign Source Implicit The CHALLENGER Series Code Title Description Setting in Mystara D&D Rules Cyclopedia Rules Supplement Explicit DDA1 Arena of Thyatis Adventure Explicit DDA2 Legions of Thyatis Adventure Explicit DDA3 Eye of Traldar Adventure Explicit DDA4 The Dymrak Dread Adventure Explicit DMR1 Dungeon Master Screen Rules Supplement/Adventure Explicit DMR2 Creature Catalog Rules Supplement Implicit Wrath of the Immortals Campaign Source Explicit Champions of Mystara Campaign Source Explicit The COMPANION Series Code Title Description Setting in Mystara Dungeones & Dragons Companion Rules Set 3 Rules Supplement Explicit CM1 Test of the Warlords Adventure Explicit CM2 Death's Ride Adventure Explicit CM3 Sabre River Adventure Explicit CM4 Earthshaker! Adventure Explicit CM5 Mystery of the Snow Pearls Adventure Implicit CM6 Where Chaos Reigns Adventure Implicit CM7 The Tree of Life Adventure Explicit CM8 The Endless Stair Adventure Explicit CM9 Legacy of Blood Adventure Explicit The CREATURE CRUCIBLE Series Each of these products introduced a collection of monster races as player character races. Code Title Description Setting in Mystara PC1 Tall Tales of the Wee Folk Campaign Source Explicit PC2 Top Ballista Campaign Source Explicit PC3 The Sea People Campaign Source Explicit PC4 Night Howlers Campaign Source Explicit The EXPERT Series Code Title Description Setting in Mystara Yr 1981 Dungeones & Dragons Expert Set Rules Supplement Explicit Yr 1983 Dungeones & Dragons Expert Rules Set 2 Rules Supplement Explicit X1 The Isle of Dread Adventure Explicit X2 Castle Amber(Chateau d'Amberville) Adventure Explicit X3 Curse of Xanathon Adventure Explicit X4 Master of the Desert Nomads Adventure Explicit X5 Temple of Death Adventure Explicit X6 Quagmire! Adventure Explicit X7 The War Rafts of Kron Adventure Explicit X8 Drums on Fire Mountain Adventure Explicit X9 The Savage Coast Adventure Explicit X10 Red Arrow, Black Shield Adventure Explicit X11 Saga of the Shadow Lord Adventure Explicit X12 Skarda's Mirror Adventure Explicit X13 Crown of Ancient Glory Adventure Explicit XL1 Quest for the Heartstone Adventure Implicit XSOLO Lathan's Gold Adventure Explicit XS2 Thunderdelve Mountain Adventure Implicit The FIRST QUEST Series Title Description Setting in Mystara Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure Campaign Source Explicit Monstrous Compendium, Mystara Appendix Rules Supplement Explicit Hail the Heroes Adventure Explicit Night of the Vampire Adventure Explicit Glantri: Kingdom of Magic Campaign Source Explicit Mark of Amber Adventure Explicit Player's Survival Kit Campaign Source Explicit Dungeon Master Survival Kit Campaign Source Explicit The Mighty Argos Adventure Vaporware The Iron Ring Adventure Vaporware The GAZETEER Series Code Title Description Setting in Mystara GAZ1 Grand Duchy of Karameikos Campaign Source Explicit GAZ2 Emirates of Ylaruam Campaign Source Explicit GAZ3 Principalities of Glantri Campaign Source Explicit GAZ4 Kingdom of Ierendi Campaign Source Explicit GAZ5 Elves of Alfheim Campaign Source Explicit GAZ6 Dwarves of Rockhome Campaign Source Explicit GAZ7 The Northern Reaches Campaign Source Explicit GAZ8 The Five Shires Campaign Source Explicit GAZ9 Minrothad Guilds Campaign Source Explicit GAZ10 Orcs of Thar Campaign Source Explicit GAZ11 Republic of Darokin Campaign Source Explicit GAZ12 Golden Khan of Ethengar Campaign Source Explicit GAZ13 The Shadow Elves Campaign Source Explicit GAZ14 Atruaghin Clans Campaign Source Explicit Dawn of the Emperors Campaign Source Explicit The HOLLOW WORLD Series Code Title Description Setting in Mystara D&D Hollow World Campaign Source Explicit HWA1 Nightwail Adventure Explicit HWA2 Nightrage Adventure Explicit HWA3 Nightstorm Adventure Explicit HWQ1 The Milenian Scepter Adventure Explicit HWR1 Sons of Azca Campaign Source Explicit HWR2 Kingdom of Nithia Campaign Source Explicit HWR3 Milenian Empire Campaign Source Explicit The IMMORTAL Series Code Title Description Setting in Mystara Dungeones & Dragons Immortal Rules Set 5 Rules Supplement Explicit IM1 The Immortal Storm Adventure Implicit IM2 The Wrath of Olympus Adventure Explicit IM3 The Best of Intentions Adventure Explicit The INVISIBLE INK Series Although these are meant to be played solo, additional text is provided for a DM who wishes to take a group of players through the adventure. As all invisible ink pens have dried out since these were printed, it may be difficult to reveal all of the text. In addition, it may be impossible to read these modules if they are in poor condition. Code Title Description Setting in Mystara M1 Blizzard Pass Adventure Explicit M2 Maze of the Riddling Minotaur Adventure Implicit The MASTER Series Code Title Description Setting in Mystara Dungeones & Dragons Master Rules Set 4 Rules Supplement Explicit M1 Into the Maelstrom Adventure Explicit M2 Vengeance of Alphaks Adventure Explicit M3 Twilight Calling Adventure Explicit M4 Five Coins for a Kingdom Adventure Explicit M5 Talons of Night Adventure Explicit The ODYSSEY Series Note that these products were never released, although they are available from TSR on the Web. Title Description Setting in Mystara Savage Coast Campaign Book Campaign Source Explicit Monstrous Compendium, Savage Coast Rules Supplement Explicit Orc's Head Campaign Source Explicit The ONE-ON-ONE Series These adventures were written to be played between one player and one DM. Code Title Description Setting in Mystara O1 The Gem and the Staff Adventure Implicit O2 Blade of Vengeance Adventure Explicit The RED STEEL Series Title Description Setting in Mystara Red Steel Campaign Campaign Source Explicit Savage Baronies Campaign Source Explicit Red Steel Campaign Themes Unknown Vaporware The TRAIL MAP Series These trail maps are well-done, and provide several tables of traveller information on the D&D Known World. Code Title Description Setting in Mystara TM1 The Western Countries Campaign Source Explicit TM2 The Eastern Countries Campaign Source Explicit DRAGON Magazine At this time, Dragon magazines which contained Sage Advice that applied to the D&D game are not completely included, though they may be included in the future. Issue Number Description Setting in Mystara Notes 50 Adventure Compatible 55 Adventure Compatible 92 Adventure Compatible 109 Rules Supplement Compatible War Machine additions 118 Rules Supplement Compatible Neanderthal Character Class 148 Campaign Source Explicit Comments on Gazeteers 153 Campaign Source Explicit Eastern Jungle Coast/Pass of Cestia 154 Campaign Source Explicit Isle of Oceania 155 Campaign Source Explicit Isle of Cestia 156 Campaign Source Explicit Heldannic Knights 157 Campaign Source Explicit Vulture Peninsula 158 Campaign Source Explicit Dragon Rulers/Land of N'djatwa 160 Campaign Source Explicit Rakasta of Myoshima 161 Campaign Source Explicit Vulcania/Hollow World 162 Campaign Source Explicit Gnomes of Oostdok 163 Campaign Source Explicit Escape from Hollow World 164 Campaign Source Explicit Alphatia 165 Campaign Source Explicit Upper Thothia 166 Campaign Source Explicit Kingdom of Emerond 167 Campaign Source Explicit Plane of Sky Wyrms 168 Campaign Source Explicit Planet of Hakh 169 Campaign Source Explicit Sind/Jaibul 170 Campaign Source Explicit Dragon Society/Yavdlom 171 Campaign Source Explicit Dragon Kingdoms of Known World/Slagovich 172 Campaign Source Explicit Hule 173 Campaign Source Explicit Research on Hule 174 Campaign Source Explicit Barony of Vilaverde 175 Campaign Source Explicit Saragon 176 Campaign Source Explicit Smokestone City 177 Campaign Source Explicit Kingdom of Robrenn 178 Campaign Source Explicit Kingdom of Eusdria 179 Campaign Source Explicit Kingdom of Renardy 180 Campaign Source Explicit The Plane of Limbo 181 Campaign Source Explicit Kingdom of Bellayne 182 Campaign Source Explicit Questions and Answers 183 Campaign Source Explicit Kingdom of Herath 184 Campaign Source Explicit Questions and Answers 185 Campaign Source Explicit Squamous Kingdoms 186 Campaign Source Explicit Land of Wallara 187 Campaign Source Explicit Questions and Answers 188 Campaign Source Explicit Land of Jibaru/Nucleus of Spheres 189 Rules Supplement Explicit Q&A/Dominion Rules 190 Rules Supplement Explicit Q&A/Dominion Rules 191 Rules Supplement Explicit Armies 192 Campaign Source Explicit Country of Nimmur 193 Rules Supplement Explicit Castles 194 Campaign Source Explicit Questions and Answers 196 Campaign Source Explicit Dark Jungle Orcs 197 Campaign Source Explicit Questions and Answers 199 Rules Supplement Explicit Heraldry/Gunpowder/Siege Weapons 200 Campaign Source Explicit Arm of the Immortals 206 Campaign Source Explicit Barony of Halag 207 Campaign Source Explicit Krakatos 216 Campaign Source Explicit Bargle the Infamous 237 Campaign Source Explicit Lupins DUNGEON Magazine All Dungeon magazine contains is adventures, so I have eliminated the Description classification. Issue Number Setting in Mystara Adventure Location Notes 1 Compatible Alfheim/Norworld Features an elven home 2 Compatible Any island in remote area 5 Compatible Karameikos/Darokin/Five Shires 6 Explicit Savage Coast Compatible with X9, not modern day SC 7 Explicit Savage Coast Part 2 of adventure in #6 9 Explicit Ylaruam Solo adventure(no DM) for one elf 9 Implicit Mule Beach Can be set with any coastal town 12 Explicit northern Glantri 13 Explicit Specularum Murder/terror mystery in the city 14 Implicit remote town in mountains First appearance of greater wererats 15 Compatible Karameikos/Darokin 20 Explicit Broken Lands Treasure Hunt & manscorpions 21 Explicit Norworld Describes small clan of elves in Norworld 22 Explicit Broken Lands Humanoid PCs 23 Explicit Soderfjord 24 Explicit Karameikos on Westron Road Excellent wizard tower 25 Explicit Karameikos 26 Explicit Darokin, south of Alfheim Well-developed NPCs & bhuts 27 Explicit Karameikos Describes the moor NE of Kelvin 28 Explicit Broken Lands Short encounter meant to be included w/HWA1 Implicit any frontier outpost Murder mystery 34 Implicit Minrothad/any remote island 39 Explicit Glantri Features a magical pool of healing 42 Explicit Karameikos Describes an outlaw town near Threshold 44 Explicit Glantri Set after 1010AC 46 Compatible Darokin Well-described goblin tribe 48 Explicit Five Shires 50 Compatible Ylaruam 51 Compatible Darokin 53 Compatible Karameikos 54 Implicit anywhere Features a redcap, mentions a shadowelf wizard 56 Compatible Darokin AD&D adventure, same area as #46 57 Suggested Karameikos AD&D adventure 58 Suggested Specularum AD&D adventure 59 Explicit Karameikos AD&D adventure 62 Explicit Savage Coast Has creatures from SC Monstrous Compendium IMAGINE Magazine Imagine is a magazine published in the United Kingdom by TSR Hobbiees (UK) Ltd. Their D&D material was quite good. For the later issues, 16-30, Imagine printed a series of articles detailing the city of Pelinore, providing statistics for both D&D and AD&D. Although set in its own campaign world, the city could be moved to Mystara. Issue Number Description Setting in Mystara Notes 1 Adventure Compatible 6 Adventure Compatible 12 Adventure Compatible Solo Adventure 16 Campaign Source/Adventure Compatible Adventure set in Egypt 17 Campaign Source Compatible 18 Adventure Compatible 19 Adventure Compatible Uses War Machine Rules 20 Campaign Source Compatible 21 Campaign Source Compatible 22 Campaign Source Compatible 23 Campaign Source/Adventure Compatible 24 Campaign Source/Adventure Compatible Adventures for thieves 25 Campaign Source Compatible 26 Campaign Source Compatible 27 Campaign Source/Adventure Compatible 28 Campaign Source Compatible 29 Campaign Source Compatible 30 Campaign Source Compatible Special Edition #1 Campaign Source/Adventure Compatible Reprints old adventures POLYHEDRON Newzine Issue Number Description Setting in Mystara Notes 15 Adventure Implicit 16 Campaign Source Implicit Supplement to AC1 100 Campaign Source Explicit Documents of Known World 1010AC 120 Campaign Source Explicit Adapting Oriental Adventures to Myoshima Mystara Novels Title Series Setting in Mystara The Tainted Sword Penhalgion Trilogy Explicit The Dragon's Tomb Penhalgion Trilogy Explicit The Fall of Magic Penhalgion Trilogy Explicit Rogues to Riches Young Quest Explicit Son of Dawn Young Quest Explicit Dragonlord of Mystara Dragonlord Chronicles Explicit Dragonking of Mystara Dragonlord Chronicles Explicit Dragonmage of Mystara Dragonlord Chronicles Explicit Dark Knight of Karameikos Explicit The Black Vessel Explicit Mystara Electronic Games This includes computer/electronic games which provide new material about Mystara. Note that the IBM PC compatible game is not included in this list, as it only contained information taken from the various Gazeteers. Title Type of Game Setting in Mystara Notes Warriors of the Eternal Sun Sega Genesis Explicit Adventure in Hollow World Tower of Doom Arcade Game Explicit Adventure in Darokin/Broken Lands Shadow over Mystara Arcade Game Explicit Adventure in Glantri/Aengmoor TSR Mystara Net Resources Technically, all Odyssey products should be here as well. Location Filename Description Setting in Mystara www.tsrinc.com/games/adnd/mystara SHADOW.TXT AD&D update for Shadowelves Explicit www.tsrinc.com/games/adnd/mystara NOSFERAT.TXT AD&D description of Nosferatu Explicit www.tsrinc.com/games/adndcore/ chrono.rtf Chronomancy and the Multiverse Mentioned www.tsrinc.com/games/adnd/savagecoast sc_coat.jpg Coat of arms for the Savage Coast Explicit Promotional Items These are items which were distributed free of charge at some point in time. ST1 was distributed at a convention in Britain. The Jade Hare was mailed out with some orders from The Mail Order Hobby Shop. Code Title Description Setting in Mystara ST1 Up the Garden's Path Adventure Unknown The Jade Hare Adventure Explicit Non-Mystara AD&D Products Note that for the I series modules, the actual suggestion to place them in Mystara was in GAZ2. Domains of Dread retroactively assigned the villain from Ship of Horror as originally coming from Mystara. Code Title Description Setting in Mystara I3 Pharaoh Adventure Suggested I4 Oasis of the White Palm Adventure Suggested I5 Lost Tomb of Martek Adventure Suggested I9 Day of Al'Akbar Adventure Suggested RA2 Ship of Horror Adventure Suggested Battlesystem Rules Supplement Compatible Domains of Dread Campaign Source Mentioned I, Tyrant Campaign Source Mentioned Night Below Adventure Suggested Uncaged: Faces of Sigil Campaign Source Mentioned Clark Ashton Smith Stories CAS invented a fantasy province of France called Averoigne, which he used as the background for some of his stories. Averoigne was used by TSR as the background setting for X2. Later, elements of Averoigne were fully adopted into the Mystara setting. Although none of these stories are directly RPG material, they do provide details on Averoigne. If the notes indicate a synopsis or fragment, this means that the book does not have the full story, but contains the notes that CAS used while composing the story. Weird Tales is a magazine which featured the original prints for many CAS stories. The short stories have the information pertaining to Averoigne, and many have been printed in more than one book over the last 60 years. This list is as comprehensive as possible, though it may not be complete. Book Title Short Stories Setting in Mystara Notes The Abominations of Yondo The Enchantress of Sylaire Compatible The City of the Singing Flame The Enchantress of Sylaire Compatible Genius Loci The Colossus of Ylourgne Compatible The Disinternment of Venus Compatible The Satyr Compatible Giants The Colossus of Ylourgne Compatible Lost Worlds The Beast of Averoigne Compatible The Holiness of Azedarc Compatible Mother of Toads Mother of Toads Compatible Unabridged Other Dimensions The Mandrakes Compatible Out of Space & Time The End of the Story Compatible A Rendezvous in Averoigne Compatible A Rendezvous in Averoigne: The Holiness of Azedarac Compatible The Best Fantastic Tales of The Colossus of Ylourgne Compatible Clark Ashton Smith Clark The End of the Story Compatible A Rendezvous in Averoigne Compatible Strange Shadows: The Beast of Averoigne Compatible First version The Uncollected Fiction and The Sorceress of Averoigne Compatible Synopsis Essays of Clark Ashton Smith The Werewolf of Averoigne Compatible Synopsis The Disinterment of Venus Compatible Synopsis The Gargoyle of Vyones Compatible Synopsis The Maker of Gargoyles Compatible Synopsis The Beast of Averoigne Compatible Short synopsis The Beast of Averoigne Compatible Long synopsis(variant) Venus and the Priest Compatible Fragment The Infernal Star Mentioned Fragment Queen of the Sabbat Compatible Synopsis Tales of Science and Sorcery The Maker of Gargoyles Compatible Mother of Toads Compatible Abridged Vampires A Rendezvous in Averoigne Compatible Weird Vampire Tales A Rendezvous in Averoigne Compatible 100 Wicked Little Witch Stories The Mandrakes Compatible 100 Creepy Little Creature Stories Mother of Toads Compatible Unabridged Weird Tales, May '30 The End of the Story Compatible Weird Tales, Apr/May '31 A Rendezvous in Averoigne Compatible Weird Tales, Feb '33 The Mandrakes Compatible Weird Tales, Nov '33 The Holiness of Azedarc Compatible Weird Tales, Jun '34 The Woods of Averoigne Unknown Poem The Colossus of Ylourgne Compatible Weird Tales, Jul '38 Mother of Toads Compatible Abridged Weird Tales, Jul '41 The Enchantress of Sylaire Compatible Appendix: What is the Domesday Book? The Domesday Book was the official 'zine of the Castle & Crusade Society, started back in 1968. Membership high was about 60-80 and included such luminaries as E. Gary Gygax, Jeff Perren, Robert J. Kuntz, Len Lakofka, Bill Hoyer and David L. Arneson. The Domesday Book was originally founded by Gary Gygax (one-time Editor - noted at the bottom of the contents page in issue #13). The editor of issue 13 is Robert J. Kuntz, and the book is signed by him. Issue #13 is noted for the very first pre-Dungeons and Dragons-related article ever to appear: by Dave Arneson, no less, entitled, "Facts about Blackmoor", detailing the 'First Fantasy Campaign'. Table of Contents ***************** The Storming of Minis Ithil page 3 Facts About Blackmoor page 6 Feudal Kingship page 8 Missives (Letter Column) page 9 Letter from the King page 11 Precedence by Title or Office page 13 Knights Jousting Tourney* page 14 *This article is a reprint of the same article appearing in issue #6. It is the same tournament rules (the first printing of that segment) for jousting that appear in Gygax' and Perren's "Chainmail Rules", the precursor to D&D originally used by Arneson. There are less than 80 copies of this particular issue in existance. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #213 ***************************** From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #214 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, November 27 1997 Volume 02 : Number 214 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:59:26 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara renewal project. I also have been seeing alot of stuff making it sound like oD&D might be brought back like before. Reading over 'The Current Clack' in Dragon #240 about TSR's make-up with Arneson, I just love that one statement of his, '...call everything D&D and get rid of AD&D altogether...' ;) - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:01:55 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] The latest comprehensive index Thanks Dave, I've been wondering what to put on my Christmas list this year ;) - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:24:56 PST From: "Mauricio Pena" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics: a treatise Thanks a lot DM this is really a piece of work, is spectacular. Vassago ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:27:18 -0500 From: Paul Bruncisk Subject: Re: [Mystara]The rest of Brun (Was Power Vacuum) Mystara RRossmanek@aol.com wrote: > What' s about following: Karameikos, Darokin and the Five Shires > made the final counterattack against Hule, free Sind and storm in a > holy crusade through the Sind Desert to build a crusader state in > the Black Mountains (there's an old monastery which could be a > center of a new founded knightly order, you remember?). Than they > could make ties to Yavdlom and the City States. And now something > for all who reject this idea as too devastating, too fantastic, too > crusader-like. Jerendi could join the WDL, Glantri could return from > isolation, and, if anybody uses the Hydra Day scenario, Minrothad > too. BTW, after a peaceful union of Alfheim and Aengmor this country > could be a candidate too. As the previous speaker said, "just a few > thoughts, so no flames please" It sounds far-fetched but possible. The most important thing would be to find a way for this to come about. This talk of the Black Mountains brings up another topic. Has anyone decided to ever write anything from the rest of Brun such as the Black Mountains in CoM or what about the Midlands (that big forested area) of Brun as labeled in the Rules Cyclopedia? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:27:09 -0500 From: Paul Bruncisk Subject: [Mystara] Mystara: Thyatis, Rome, and Byzantium It seems recently that Thyatis has gone through some terrible hardships, perhaps the worst ever. The reason for this is that Thyatis models Rome in the way it became powerful. Both rely upon conquest for riches. Rome became so wealthy and powerful that it defeated all of its enemies and therefore had no more wealth able to take. Without any real industry or craft, the Empire fell. The same is true for Thyatis. As its provinces rebel, territories dwindle, and there aren't many more places to conquer, Thyatis is close to ruin. The way for the Empire to survive is that it must change or die. Rome did it by turning towards the east (even though it eventually faded away). I see that sooner or later, Thyatis will have to go through a serious change in order to achieve greatness again or even survive. As much as it is Mystara and highly magical, nations fade away eventually and Thyatis has to do something drastic. It's time is running out. More elaboration once I get some sleep... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:27:39 -0500 From: Paul Bruncisk Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ultima Online Info Michael Ray Johnson wrote: ...perchance to dream Deathwatch Naranek wrote: Oh well, lets dream on... Hey, dreams do become realities! Mankind (or Humankind) has walked on the moon, sent probes into space, and defeated many a disease. I see Mystara as a virtual world which will be developed sooner or later by someone... Bob P.S. Anyone ever have a dream where they were in Mystara for some reason or another? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:27:30 -0500 From: Paul Bruncisk Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Royal Castle Magesmiley wrote: > On a side note: is it just me or does Ierendi feel somewhat like > Hollywood (could be one of the reasons I have mostly ignored > Ierendi). That's one of the reasons many, including myself, don't take Ierendi very seriuosly. It basically seems like a resort country, what with all of the resorts and leisure activities. A lot of the time, it tends to feel as if the country is tacky or shallow. Basically, Ierendi is a sort of a place where things tend to take on a fantasy aspect according to a Mystaran. It's where they get to role-play. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:27:47 -0500 From: Paul Bruncisk Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages abaddon wrote: > Any suggestions for a better way to handle the councils? After all of the discussion about this a few months ago, there are a number of courses to take: 1) The Council consists of 1000 36th level mages. 2) The Council consists of 100 36th level mages. 3) The Council is made up of 1000 Name level mages. 4) The Council has 100 Name level mages. 5) The Council is made up of 1000 people with magical ability of any kind. 6) The Council is comprised of 1000 mages of any level. 7) The Council contains an undisclosed number of mages of any level yet the Empire boasts that it has 1000 36TH LEVEL WIZARDS! 8) The limit of the Council is 1000 mages and 36th level (I assume no Immortals would want ot be on it anyway) 9) TSR just wanted to show that Alphatia was a very powerful empire built by magic and what other way than by stating 1000 36th level mages. 10) Same as number 1. However, the members are just members in name only and never show up becaus they have no time or care for it (who's going to tell them otherwise?). 11) Any others I missed? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:27:55 -0500 From: Paul Bruncisk Subject: Re: [Mystara] Power Vacuum in Mystara Aaron E Nowack wrote: > > That was actualy what prompted my post. I was thinking about what > would happen if the Master threw all his effort into conquering the > KW. I reached some disturbing conclusions. While the WDL could > hold him off for a while, eventually they would fall through sheer > numbers. Besides that, he could probally keep all the other nations > off his back while he eliminated them one by one. Also, the > Heldannic Knights might even aid him. The only chance for the KW > would be for someone oe some nation to unify all the nations against > him at the start. Barring a PC taking action, :), I don't see > anyone in the KW in a position to do that. I actually planned a campaign like this and hope to incorporate it in my current one. It's a heavily modified version of WotI with Alphatia and Hule combining forces to once and for all destroy their enemies by conquering the Known World (can you imagine?!). I still have quite a few bugs to work out but hope to have them resolved (such as exactly which Immortals are on which side and why). I decided on this because I figured on a total world war with only two factions instead of the three of WotI. Anyone hae any thoughts? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 17:34:50 +0800 From: Glenn Butcher Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dreams Paul Bruncisk rambled (brunciak@erols.com): > P.S. Anyone ever have a dream where they were in Mystara for some > reason or another? I have dreams about one of my characters about once every two months, generally after something of major emotional importance to them has occured. This character is my current favourite tho, and is fairly close to my own personality. Glenn - -- mailto:knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | "We have plenty of time to finger -l for PGP public key | kill ourselves." http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:40:41 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics Great work Marco! Everything you write is very fine (I love it) but it makes me think to other questions... ;) What about the clans who left Evergrun to settle near Blackmoor (before the GRoF)? They didn't have access to the original Tree of Ordana, so how did they "survive"? Between the destruction of Evergrun and the creation of the first ToL, the elves had no relics. According to your theory, they should have lost their sense of unity and confidence, thinking they were fated to slowly die out. So how could they have taken the initiative to migrate to the Sylvan Realm? They should have waited for their destruction with their land.. Unless this faith in the Relic came only later, with Ilsundal. When the 9 seedlings of the original ToL were created, you state that the Shiye don't get one. Why? I know i'm against having them have one now (present), but at the time they were followers of Ilsundal, they were probably a large clan (since their numbers are so high today), they were living in the SR, so, they should have had one. Unless they had already left Mealinden before he started the migration. Maybe the Shiye got a ToL, had a Treekeeper, but since converting to following Eiryndul, they have abandoned faith in his Relic too but for a handful of Treekeepers that are still watching over the mother tree (I don't think Ilsundal would have allowed a ToL to die altogether). You've left the Vyalias out of your scheme. What about the HW elves? Maybe Atz gave a Relic to the SA, and what about the Icevale? As for the Blacklore and Gentle Folk, they're both a very fatalistic, depressed people who do not expect much of life and wait for their death : that fits exactly with what you said about the clans without a Relic, so I'd say they have none and that's why they are the way they are. __________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:55:50 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Kladanovic and Tyjaret These two towns are marked on the map in Champions of Mystara, but is there any info about them? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:07:37 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI It seemed odd to me that Atruaghin Clans didn't do a single thing in the Great War. After all, there's Atzanteotl, stirring up Huleans, and Atruaghin (the Immortal) doesn't lift a finger to counteract him. Why didn't Hule (guided by Atzanteotl/Loki alliance) attack the Clans? Why didn't the Bear Clan aid Darokin (they do have a profitable relationship)? Why didn't the Tiger Clan (worshipping Atzanteotl) help attack Darokin - they could really create chaos if they attacked Port Tenobar and Athenos, adding another threat in the south. I think I'm going to involve the Clans in WotI much more when my campaign reaches that stage... Thoughts? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:09:50 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Emerond On Wed, 26 Nov 1997 RRossmanek@aol.com wrote: > one big > point which speaks for this idea: The Beagles and Emerondians both have green > skin! > Interesting idea... That would make Benekander extremely interested in Emerondians... perhaps becoming their patron Immortal (are any specific Immortals mentioned as patrons of Emerond?) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:23:25 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Ultima Online Info I suggest that before everyone rushes out and buys Ultima Online, read the posts on Usenet. You might find out that Ultima Online isn't as hot as some make it out to be. I do agree, Mystara Online would be incredible, but it will also be *extremely* difficult to create and maintain without major bugs. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: 27 Nov 1997 09:22:31 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Mystara renewal project. >>>>> "G" == Galwylin writes: G> Reading over 'The Current Clack' in Dragon #240 about TSR's make-up G> with Arneson, I just love that one statement of his, '...call G> everything D&D and get rid of AD&D altogether...' ;) Unfortunately, the way I interpret that based on a post a month or two ago on usenet, that means "Rename AD&D 2nd Edition to D&D and ditch the system formerly known as D&D." - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Avoid cliches like the plague. They're a dime a dozen. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 16:41:41 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Vyalia, Shiye and Trueflower clans Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >I remember that we said that Vyalia don't have one, as well as Meditor and >Verdier. >DM said something about a Trueflower (?) clan in the Isle of Dawn. Marco? OK, since i've been drawn into the discussion, i'll answer. ;) This is the way i see it: Vyalia have a ToL as said in DotE (see County of Vyalia). This is the exact quote: "When a Forester trainee is ready to become a Forester formally, [..] the Forester is taken to the Tree of Life of the sponsoring clan (this tree is hidden deep in the forest, far off the recognizable forest trails). There, in a special ceremony,he is formally adopted by the clan and visited by a ghostly presence called an Arm of Ilsundal, which fill him with the energies which will allow him to cast magic as the elves do." (DotE, Book 1, page 13) So, given the fact that there are 6 clans of Vyalia in Thyatis (Blueleaves, Diamaraks, Hierydyls, Greenheights, Treeshields and Etherdyls), there must be then six ToL in Thyatis. There is also a clan of reclusive Vyalia living in the Karameikos side of the Forest of Dymrak: however, i haven't found any reference that says they own a ToL, so i don't think they have one (they probably worship Ordana like in the old ways thru a different mysticism..). How can these 6 ToL be explained? Where do they come from? I personally can think of two plausible explanations, both quite simple actually. First theory: The Alfheimers' gift. This is the hypothesis i currently support. When the Alfheimers came with Mealiden out of the Rainbow Path after escaping the Sylvan Realm, they landed in what would later become known as Thyatis. From Daniel Boese's Timeline: "800 BC: Elves led by Mealiden Starwatcher leave the Sylvan Realm via the magical rainbow; they carry nine seedlings of thetree of life with them. They land in the forested regions of what would later be called Thyatis, but are driven out by the warlike humans there, and flee northward. The Callarii clan settles in Traladara territory; most of the rest settle in a windy steppes area." OK, now, we don't know for sure how many years did they stay in those woods. We know that they were driven out the fertile plains by the surrounding humans, but i think they had the opportunity to settle in the woods for some time. I let you note that Mealiden was acclaimed king of Alfheim only a century after this date (BC 700, according to the canonic fonts). This is a very long timespan, so i believe that the elves actually stayed in the forest of Dymrak for no less than 5-10 years before being forced to flee westwards. And during this time they became friends with the elves already living there: the Vyalias. In exchange for their help and friendship, they then gave the Vyalia six daughters ToL from one of their Mother Trees (one for each clan), as a gesture of eternal bond and brotherhood. Then they were forced to move out when their population was too numerous and couldn't be supported by the gifts of the forest, or more probably because Mealiden wanted a land of his own to rule and dreamt of becoming a new symbol for the elves like Ilsundal had been. This way, the Vyalia of Thyatis have now their ToL and worship Ilsundal like their brethern of Alfheim. Second theory: the Missing Clan. When Mealiden arrived in what would be later called Thyatis, the Vyalia clan was one of the clans that had followed him via the Rainbow Path. However, at that time many elves had lost their hopes to find a better land where to begin a new life, and after they were driven off by the humans and the Shiye abandoned the main group, they stumbled in the woods of Dymrak. The Vyalia liked the place, but Mealiden esorted the followers to move on to the promised land, where with the help of Ilsundal they would have founded a new kingdom. But the Vyalia refused, like the Shiye had done a short time before, and they settled in the forest of Dymrak, keeping with them one of the nine original seedlings. Then the Callarii did the same when they passed thru Karameikos. As you see, the testimonies of the defections from Mealiden's migration are many and well known, so we can suppose the same happened with the Vyalia. At that time, the Vyalia was a single united clan. But as time passed, many of the younger generations wanted to found their own clans and parted from the original: and so the six clans that now inhabit Thyatis were formed, and each one had its own daughter ToL. But where is the Original ToL nowadays? Two options: the Vyalia of Karameikos have it (the other Vyalia clans were founded because the younger elves refused to live in isolation as the older members taught. This explains the difference between Thyatis' and Karameikos' Vyalias), being the main clan from which the others originated. Second option: one of the six clans has it, probably the Greenheights since they're the rulers. As you will note, the first hypothesis doesn't contradict canon stuff, while the second bends the rules, so to speak, supposing the Vyalia left Mealiden when no published supplement about Mystara has ever mentioned it (while on the contrary all the defections of other clans in the history of elves have always been reported). But if you accept the first hypothesis, then two problems still remain: 1) where the heck are the missing ToL? 2) Where do the Vyalia come from? As for the first question, i must admit i don't really know, even though i will mention later the possible fate of another ToL. Regarding the second, it's not that difficult to answer. Remember that Vyalia closely resemble the Verdier and Meditor elves of Minrothad (both are bright eyed and pale of complexion). My hypothesis then is that the Vyalia belonged to the Verdier clan. When the Verdier decided to sail off to find their lost brethern (the Meditor) around BC 1720, the Vyalia simply chose to remain where they were, in the forest of Dymrak, thus splitting the clan in two and founding the new clan of Vyalia. Then in the following decades the isolationists decided to live hidden inside the Karameikan part of Dymrak, while the other Vyalia scattered in the Thyatian part of the forest forming the six new clans as previously told. I think this holds, what about you? But let's now come to the end of this letter and talk about the Shiye and the mysterious Trueflower clan of the Thothian Plateau. Quoting from Daniel Boese's Timeline again: "BC 800: One of the elf-clans, the Shiye, listens to the guidance of the elf-immortal Eiryndul and makes a dangerous crossing to the continent of Alphatia, where they set up their own kingdom in the deep central forests of that continent." OK, imagine the scene: the Shiye are on Thyatian mainland and they split from Mealiden's group. However, they manage to keep their ToL (or maybe they steal it, knowing their nature..). The new spiritual leader tells them he has had an omen from their new patron: that he will guide them across the sea to a forested land to the east, where they will finally live in happiness and freedom. So they build barges and ships (or maybe the Meditor elves help them crossing the Sea of Dawn) and they come across a vast land very soon: the Isle of Dawn. They're very happy and praise the new Immortal for the land he's granted them, but the leader insists: they must cross this land for the promised forest is on the other side (they made landfall on the western shore, probably on the Shadow Coast). So they climb atop the plateau and they find a lush primeval forest sparsely inhabited and full of animals and friendly creatures. But for the second time the leader tells them this is not the promised land: this is only an island, and they must sail again eastwards towards a great continent that will be their new house. Many of them move... but some of them stay (this has always been a constant in the elven migrations): the Trueflowers. And they also manage to take into custody the ToL of the clan, since the leader openly says that they will no longer need it where they are going: the New Guide will give them a better relic! This way, the Shiye leader prompts all that are not loyal to him or to Eiryndul to leave the main group and to remain behind, where they won't hamper the clan anymore. So this is the story of the Trueflower clan of the Thothian Plateau, a clan of elves detailed in M5: Talons of Night. The references to this clan of elves can be found on page 26 (where the map shows its location and officially names it "Trueflower clan") and on page 30, where the attitude of the clanmaster towards strangers is briefly told. For those who want to know, i've invented the whole story of the clan from the first word to the last basing myself of what we know of the elven migrations. And for those who also want to know more about the Trueflowers, i must tell you that M5 doesn't detail them: they're only mentioned as being a clan of elves that the PCs can befriend to help the phanatons of the IoD to defeat the evil araneas. As the last sidenote about the Trueflowers, module M5 says that they "couldn't care less about the strife between Alphatia and Thyatis, two nations they've never heard of." (M5, p.30). This obviously means that they haven't had any contact with nations or cultures outside the plateau for a very long time. They do know there are other races out there, but they don't know about Thyatis and Alphatia. So, if you also consider this piece of information, you'll see that my theory is not so unlikely (indeed in the ninth century BC, when i hypothesized they settled in the IoD, Thyatis had not yet been founded and Alphatia was not widely known -especially to elves that had lived on the other side of the coninent- being arrived on Mystara only two hundred years before). I don't know if this is acceptable for you, but in this case one of the missing ToL is in the IoD, so two more are missing (provided you don't think the Vyalia have one too). As for the Shiye in the Foresthomes, this theory would explain why they cannot materially have ToL, but instead their relic should be a relic of Eirydul (if any). Unless you think they braved the sea once more to come to the Trueflowers only to ask for a small daughter tree of a long forgotten and forsaken elven deity.. Enough for now: awaiting your reaction. DM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 16:43:32 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] E'aar and their origins So, since we're talking about elves and their background, i thought it would be good to mention also the e'aar, the winged elves of the Immortals' Arm. Here's what you find about their history in the Orc's Head Peninsula sourcebook: " The history of the ee'aar is shrouded in mystery. It is known that they are not native to the Savage Coast and that centuries ago they migrated from a far land called Davania in order to reach the Arm of the Immortals. What prompted the ee'aar to abandon their old home and undertake this dangerous exodus is unknown, but they believe it was to enable them to found a homeland where no one could find them. Most of the ee'aar died on the way; the survivors claimed the high, desolated mountain lands where no foe could easily reach them. Ee'aar myth tells of a lone hunter named Aeryl who trod upon the clouds to reach a magical spire and thereby entered the Realm of Faerie. She lived so long among them that wings grew on her back and she learned much from her faerie friends. Being homesick, she returned and was welcomed back by her kin, who marveled at her wings. She married and passed the wings on to her descendants, until today, centuries after her death, all the ee'aar bear wings and they named their kingdom in her honor." (OH, p.41) Ok, there is obviously more fantasy than truth in this tale, but since Mystara is a world where magic and miracles are common, then why not to take it as the truth? Besides, that's the only canonic information we've got, so.. Anyway, it seems the E'aar came to Brun with Ilsundal's migration, and they probably split from the main group following Aeryl northwards to dwell in the mountains of the Arm. Then Aeryl contacted the Faerie and was gifted with the wings, which she passed to her sons and daughters as the legend tells (or maybe special ceremonies were performed to give the wings to other e'aars who accepted the guidance of Aeryl and of the Faerie). This way, the e'aar's lack of a relic could be easily explained: no immortal to follow, they abandoned the old worship of Ordana because now they shared a bond with the faerie and they lived no more in the forest. Instead of worshipping the Immortals they probably revered the faerie as their protectors and friends, a cult similar to the Ancestors' cult in ancient Rome probably. No problem so far. But then, if you read further we discover a strange thing: the e'aars have a pantheon of Immortals they worship: "The Guide (Ilsundal): Ilsundal is the chief Immortal patron of the ee'aar. He represents peace and serenity as well as wisdom, law, and trust. The ee'aar believe it was his will that led them to the high mountains and that he requires the ee'aar to live there in quiet seclusion from the rest of the world. The Guardian (Mealiden Starwatcher): Mealiden is the one who protects Ilsundal- for the ee'aar that makes him the patron of war and the defender of Aeryl. He likes bold, mocking, light-spirited adventurers. His priests are the ones who provide the ee'aar with their special controllable light spells. The Adventurer (Eiryndul): He represents jokes, amusement, relaxation, and freedom. Eiryndul is an inquisitive maverick who breaks the rules to unveil secrets. Those with a particular interest in new magic, who are curious about the world beyond the mountains (like ee'aar Scouts), who are impulsive and curious, and those who do not fit the traditional ee'aar culture revere him. Most of his followers become wanderers or adventurers." (OH, p.42) Now, that's really strange. Why should the e'aars worship Immortals they've never known? Ilsundal became Immortal after they settled in the Arm (around BC 2300?) and probably after they acquired their wings. Mealiden was unknown to them as much as Eiryndul, but yet they worship them. My idea is that the authors of the sourcebook believed that all the elves of Mystara worship the Elven Immortals, a consequence of the fact they didn't know Mystara that well. But as usual they wrote it this way and we are now faced with a fact we must explain. So that's my explanation: Ilsundal was always remembered as the guide who led them to their new home together with Aeryl. And even though it was Aeryl that gave the e'aars the wings, it might have happened that Ilsundal was already an immortal when this happened and he interceded with the faeries for Aeryl in order to give his brethern, the e'aars, an opportunity to live and defend themselves in that inhospitable region where they had settled. For this reason he was remembered by his people and also worshipped as an Immortal, even though knowing Ilsundal i would doubt he has not given them a proper relic to help them. As for Mealiden, he probably let himself know as the Guardian of Ilsundal (and of Aeryl) after he attained immortality, sending omens to the e'aars and guiding their leaders in battles in order to obtain more followers. This way the e'aars accepted him in their pantheon. The real mystery is Eiryndul. I cannot think about an explanation for this one, really, so you're free to give me your ideas and to comment this letter as much as you want. DM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 16:55:40 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: shadowelves in german At 21.23 26/11/97 +0100, Peter wrote: >>Well, why not to let the Schattenalfen "Schattenalfen" and name the >>Shadowelves "Elfen des Finsternis" or "Schattenerle(n)"? > >That would be "Elfen der Finsternis"! Anw why "Erlen"= (Which means alder!) Also "Elfen der Dunkelheit" could work, but it has a connotation that is maybe too negative. As for why i suggested "Erlen", well, i remember reading a poem in German about four years ago titled "Erlkoenig", and i found out that Erl also meant "elf", so this was the tie... Sorry if i was wrong: my memory gets to be revised soon.. :) >I like FabrizioŽs "Elfi dell'Ombra" very much, taken into one word, like >"Alfdelombra" or something! Alfdelombra sounds very "spanish", even though it's an odd italian-german mix. For unknown reasons, i like it too... :) I dunno why, but it reminds me of the clans of Vampire, the Masquerade... don't ask: i'm as much puzzled as you by this statement... :) DM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:47:56 -0500 (EST) From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] E'aar and their origins Given that Ilsundal is worshiped by (among others) the humans of Eusdria on the Savage Coast, it should not be surprising to find any Immortal worshiped anywhere. The Elven Immortals would have noticed a new race of winged elves and would have raced to reveal themselves to these potential worshipers. The only thing that needs explaining is why Aeryl did not have their full loyalty. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:19:09 +0100 From: Deathwatch Naranek Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ultima Online Info At 03:27 27-11-97 -0500, you wrote: >Michael Ray Johnson wrote: > >...perchance to dream > >Deathwatch Naranek wrote: > >Oh well, lets dream on... > >Hey, dreams do become realities! Mankind (or Humankind) has walked on >the moon, sent probes into space, and defeated many a disease. I see >Mystara as a virtual world which will be developed sooner or later by >someone... Lets hope so... >Bob > >P.S. Anyone ever have a dream where they were in Mystara for some > reason or another? Not really, I think my dreams are coming from the demiplane of nightmares :) Bas van Doornspeek - deathw@xs4all.nl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 19:09:00 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] E'aar and their origins At 12.47 27/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >The Elven Immortals would have noticed a new >race of winged elves and would have raced to reveal themselves to these >potential worshipers. The only thing that needs explaining is why Aeryl >did not have their full loyalty. Probably because she's not an immortal... :) Anyway, i still don't get it: how can followers of Ilsundal and Mealiden co-live side by side with Eiryndul's ones?... DM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:40:41 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Kladanovic and Tyjaret In einer eMail vom 27.11.97 11:01:52 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << These two towns are marked on the map in Champions of Mystara, but is there any info about them? >> They were first introduced in Quagmire (under other names), but more as that and the fact, that Tyjaret was founded bei Sindis and Kladanovic by Slagovichians (originally Traldar), is not known. Rolf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:40:36 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Royal Castle In einer eMail vom 26.11.97 23:52:31 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << On a side note: is it just me or does Ierendi feel somewhat like Hollywood (could be one of the reasons I have mostly ignored Ierendi). >> No, not Hollywood, but Honolulu on Hawaii. I'm still asking, if there's a little man with a night club, a dark skinned man flying with a little magical ship painted in the colours of the rainbow and a noble ex-soldier from a foreign land who works as a majordomo in the villa of a rich man. Rolf "Oh, my god!!" Jonathan Quayle Higgins ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:40:37 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics: a treatise (REALLY LONG) In einer eMail vom 27.11.97 01:13:59 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << I remember reading a line somewhere (Gaz 4?) that Ilsundal believed in the Tree of Life legend so much that he became immortal to make it come true. So, your explaination works nicely that among the Elves, there were still story regarding to the Tree that Ordana granted to them earlier, and when Ilsundal decided to became an immortal, he created a magical item based on the old myth. BTW, a real nice piece of work. Thanks. >> Hm, could there be elven clans wo still have original trees? Rolf P.S.: The problem with dwarvish Forges of Power remains unresolved. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:40:32 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics: a treatise (REALLY LONG) In einer eMail vom 26.11.97 22:08:21 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << I do note (from information gleaned during my compilation of sources for my timeline) that in one of the Dragon issues #175, I believe, where the Savage Coast is introduced, Bruce Heard notes that some elves abandoned the Mealiden (or was it Ilsundal?) migration and settle in the Savage Coast. Most were destroyed by Wogar's horde, but a few remained north of the Great Escarpment. Maybe they do have one in the SC? (I don't know how the original Dragon SC info jibes with the AD&D SC info, though). >> The elves of the Savage Coast probably don't have a ToL, because they split from the big migration before reaching Sylvan. The migration route on Brun was following: Immortals' Arm, Savage Coast, Sind/Yavdlom, Traladara, Glantrinian Highlands, Sylvan, later via rainbow back to Thyatis/ Traladara/ Alfheim. There might be more elven clans somewhere in the heartlands of Brun, about which is almost nothing known. But as I said earlier: There is always the possibility of some elven adventurers on a quest to get a ToL. This way even the farthest clans can get to a tree, of course only a daughter tree. Rolf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:40:43 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Power Vacuum in Mystara In einer eMail vom 27.11.97 16:59:35 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << 1) The WDL is, as has been mentioned, a defensive alliance. If they were to take initiate actions against outside aggressors, it would certainly throw the state of political affairs in the Known World into a great big mess. 2) Darokin isn't exactly suited to staging a full scale war against anyone, particularly at the moment. They are still recovering from the Great War, and have the Shadow Elves and other menaces (or potential menaces) to concern themselves with at the moment. 3) The Shires weren't threatened by Hule (though if the Master came back they might be) and so probably wouldn't see any point in an aggressive attack hundreds of miles away on his territory. >> Good point! Why fought the hin in WotI on the side of Darokin? Are there any hin clans in Hule or the Black Mountains? BTW, with an order founded by a good number of high level adventurers this kind war would not only be interesting, but the mission is accomplishable. Don't forget that this time the surprise would be on side of the Eastern. And finally two questions: Is Mystara a high fantastic world or not? Why should always the evil nations swarm over the good? It's a very often used concept! Let's make something complete new. The good nations come surprisingly over the evil! Rolf ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #214 ***************************** From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #215 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Friday, November 28 1997 Volume 02 : Number 215 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:40:39 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: Thyatis, Rome, and Byzantium In einer eMail vom 27.11.97 09:31:07 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << It seems recently that Thyatis has gone through some terrible hardships, perhaps the worst ever. The reason for this is that Thyatis models Rome in the way it became powerful. Both rely upon conquest for riches. Rome became so wealthy and powerful that it defeated all of its enemies and therefore had no more wealth able to take. Without any real industry or craft, the Empire fell. The same is true for Thyatis. As its provinces rebel, territories dwindle, and there aren't many more places to conquer, Thyatis is close to ruin. The way for the Empire to survive is that it must change or die. Rome did it by turning towards the east (even though it eventually faded away). I see that sooner or later, Thyatis will have to go through a serious change in order to achieve greatness again or even survive. As much as it is Mystara and highly magical, nations fade away eventually and Thyatis has to do something drastic. It's time is running out. More elaboration once I get some sleep... >> I remind you, that the Roman Empire lasted to the 19th century, when the last ruler (I don't remember who) gave up his claim to the title as Augustus. But even if we say that western Rome ended with the fall of Rome under the attack of (uh) my barbarian ancestors, the Germans, Byzanz as eastern Rome lasted to the 15th century. Additionally, both cities still exists: Byzanz or Konstantinopel is nowaday the Turkish city Istanbul and has three famous football clubs (the version of Europe/South America of course; Galatasaray, Fenerbahce, Besiktas). Rome is even more important as capital of Italy and seat of the Vatican (and football clubs it has, too: AS Roma and Lazio Roma, right, Fabrizio?). This kind of change could come over Thyatis, too, of course. Rolf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:40:41 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics In einer eMail vom 27.11.97 10:46:10 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << Everything you write is very fine (I love it) but it makes me think to other questions... ;) What about the clans who left Evergrun to settle near Blackmoor (before the GRoF)? They didn't have access to the original Tree of Ordana, so how did they "survive"? Between the destruction of Evergrun and the creation of the first ToL, the elves had no relics. According to your theory, they should have lost their sense of unity and confidence, thinking they were fated to slowly die out. So how could they have taken the initiative to migrate to the Sylvan Realm? They should have waited for their destruction with their land.. Unless this faith in the Relic came only later, with Ilsundal. When the 9 seedlings of the original ToL were created, you state that the Shiye don't get one. Why? I know i'm against having them have one now (present), but at the time they were followers of Ilsundal, they were probably a large clan (since their numbers are so high today), they were living in the SR, so, they should have had one. Unless they had already left Mealinden before he started the migration. Maybe the Shiye got a ToL, had a Treekeeper, but since converting to following Eiryndul, they have abandoned faith in his Relic too but for a handful of Treekeepers that are still watching over the mother tree (I don't think Ilsundal would have allowed a ToL to die altogether). You've left the Vyalias out of your scheme. What about the HW elves? Maybe Atz gave a Relic to the SA, and what about the Icevale? As for the Blacklore and Gentle Folk, they're both a very fatalistic, depressed people who do not expect much of life and wait for their death : that fits exactly with what you said about the clans without a Relic, so I'd say they have none and that's why they are the way they are. >> I think elven clans without a relic don't feel very well, but it depends on the elves in this clan, if this is a reason for a depression or not. Please no generalizations. Rolf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:49:16 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] E'aar and their origins In einer eMail vom 27.11.97 18:37:26 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << The real mystery is Eiryndul. I cannot think about an explanation for this one, really, so you're free to give me your ideas and to comment this letter as much as you want. >> Hm, we don' t know when and how Eiryndul attained immortality. Was he an E'aar? Or came he into this land, when he traveled on his quest for immortality? The most simple answer is, that after becoming immortal he looked over all elves of Mystara and discovered the E'aar, whom he liked. He made himself known (in mortal identity as an adventurer?) and aquired some followers. Rolf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:59:31 -0500 (EST) From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Undead and Day of Dread In a message dated 97-11-26 11:12:05 EST, DM wrote: << I think Terari was one of these, as well as Eriadna (i know she was already dead): otherwise they would have been reduced to ashes because of their real age, and no resurrection or Wish could have worked in this case. DM >> Actually, Terari and Eriadna did die from the aging effects caused by WWM. In WOTI, it states that Terari was wished back to life. However, Eriadna was not, due to her chaotic son, Zandor, who decided against wishing her back so that he could assume control of Alphatia. She ended up being wished alive due to an Immortal, when Alphatia became part of the Hollow World. So, although they must have been using temporary magic to sustain themselves, what you said about the permanency spells would explain how some others stayed alive during that time. - -Inconu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 21:07:20 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: RE: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages - ---------- > abaddon wrote: > > > Any suggestions for a better way to handle the councils? I have an idea taken from examples of ancient history (like Roman patricians o Feudalistic nobles and peers): the members of the council were (and are) able to hereditarily transmit their position, so that, if the heir is able enough to keep the family name in the council, he can be a member only for his great-great-grandfather (for instance) having been a 36th Level Wizard or so. He himself can just be a Name Level Mage, a lesser wizard or even a diferent character class or normar man! At the same time, apt individuals of power and merit could gain a place, too, thus making the aforesaid number possible... only that the true numer of functional (nor just "honorific") number of maximum-level sorcerers would be far lower. I have taken the idea from the roman Senate, which from 300 at its beginnig grew to more than 1200 during the Empire, without the "magical" multiplication o kings-times noble families.... Virgilios Nikomenos ad-Dahun Court Poet of Thyatian Empire ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 19:25:04 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Kladanovic and Tyjaret At 11.55 27/11/97 +0200, you wrote: > >These two towns are marked on the map in Champions of Mystara, but is >there any info about them? Not that I know of. I had in mind of writing some short info about them for next Almanac, but I don't know if I'll have enough time... - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 21:17:33 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] E'aar and their origins At 16.43 27/11/97 +0100, DM wrote: > Now, that's really strange. Why should the e'aars worship Immortals >they've never known? Ilsundal became Immortal after they settled in the Arm >(around BC 2300?) and probably after they acquired their wings. Mealiden was >unknown to them as much as Eiryndul, but yet they worship them. My idea is >that the authors of the sourcebook believed that all the elves of Mystara >worship the Elven Immortals, a consequence of the fact they didn't know >Mystara that well. I'm sorry to disappoint you here, Marco. The first one to describe E'aars and their Immortals was Bruce Heard in Dragon #200 and I think you don't believe that Bruce doesn't know Mystara, do you? ;-) Authors of OH simply copied Bruce's words (more or less). >But as usual they wrote it this way and we are now faced >with a fact we must explain. So that's my explanation: Ilsundal was always >remembered as the guide who led them to their new home together with Aeryl. >And even though it was Aeryl that gave the e'aars the wings, it might have >happened that Ilsundal was already an immortal when this happened and he >interceded with the faeries for Aeryl in order to give his brethern, the >e'aars, an opportunity to live and defend themselves in that inhospitable >region where they had settled. For this reason he was remembered by his >people and also worshipped as an Immortal, even though knowing Ilsundal i >would doubt he has not given them a proper relic to help them. As for >Mealiden, he probably let himself know as the Guardian of Ilsundal (and of >Aeryl) after he attained immortality, sending omens to the e'aars and >guiding their leaders in battles in order to obtain more followers. This way >the e'aars accepted him in their pantheon. The real mystery is Eiryndul. I >cannot think about an explanation for this one, really, so you're free to >give me your ideas and to comment this letter as much as you want. You're right. Eiryndul is really a mistery. I've no clues myself. BTW: your stuff about relics and elves was really great. You have a lot of free time, haven't you :) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 23:31:10 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: Thyatis, Rome, and Byzantium At 13.40 27/11/97 -0500, RRossmanek@aol.com wrote: >I remind you, that the Roman Empire lasted to the 19th century, when the last >ruler (I don't remember who) gave up his claim to the title as Augustus. >But even if we say that western Rome ended with the fall of Rome under the >attack >of (uh) my barbarian ancestors, the Germans, Byzanz as eastern Rome lasted to >the 15th century. Additionally, both cities still exists: Byzanz or >Konstantinopel is >nowaday the Turkish city Istanbul and has three famous football clubs (the >version >of Europe/South America of course; Galatasaray, Fenerbahce, Besiktas). Rome >is >even more important as capital of Italy and seat of the Vatican (and football >clubs it >has, too: AS Roma and Lazio Roma, right, Fabrizio?). > Yes, but don't remind me about football NOW... :-( >This kind of change could come over Thyatis, too, of course. You mean that they'll start playing football in the coliseum instead of making gladiator shows? :-) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 19:15:33 -0500 From: Bob Brunciak Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: Thyatis, Rome, and Byzantium RRossmanek@aol.com wrote: > I remind you, that the Roman Empire lasted to the 19th century, when > the last ruler (I don't remember who) gave up his claim to the > title as Augustus. Exactly. Let's say the Holy Roman Empire was the continuation of the Roman Empire until it's end in 1806 under Francis II. The Holy Roman Empire, as it was, was a far cry from the ancient days of Imperial Rome, culturally, religiously, militarily, etc..In my opinion, the only thing in commom was the name > But even if we say that western Rome ended with the fall of Rome > under the attack of (uh) my barbarian ancestors, the Germans, Byzanz > as eastern Rome lasted to the 15th century. Additionally, both > cities still exists: Byzanz or Konstantinopel is nowaday the Turkish > city Istanbul and has three famous football clubs (the version of > Europe/South America of course; Galatasaray, Fenerbahce, Besiktas). > Rome is even more important as capital of Italy and seat of the > Vatican (and football clubs it has, too: AS Roma and Lazio Roma, > right, Fabrizio?). Sorry. Let me elaborate on my last post. Yes, when Rome fell under Germanic attacks, Byzantium took up the torch as the "New Rome" and lasted for another 1100 years. BUT remember that when Rome did fall, and the ancient way of Roman life ended, even if the city survived. Byzantines may have been the inheritors of Rome and Greece but they certainly weren't the same culture. I'm not saying Thyatis will be destroyed but what I do see is a change in the way of life for Thyatian in the future. WHY? Because most, if not all, of the resources Thyatis used to prosper and survive are waning. The "Invincible Legions" haven't been invincible for decades, conquered territories are revolting succesfully thus weakening the Empire, and any territories that are being conqered (which are very few) aren't filling the Imperial coffers. Going further, Thyatis has made enemies with many nations through invasion or envy by them, including the Shires, Ylaruam, NACE and others. Yes Instanbul is still around but it is not Constantinople by far; Rome is capital of Italy and enloses the Holy See yet neither existed 2000 years ago. > This kind of change could come over Thyatis, too, of course. I understand what you are getting at, but do you understand the point I'm making? Cultures change in time and I see a change coming to Thyatis right now, somewhat like Rome's. Egyptians no longer mummify their dead, Romans don't worship Jupiter, and Europe no longer has an Empire. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 19:01:17 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Power Vacuum in Mystara On Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:40:43 -0500 (EST) RRossmanek@aol.com writes: >In einer eMail vom 27.11.97 16:59:35 MEZ, schreiben Sie: > ><< 1) The WDL is, as has been mentioned, a defensive alliance. If they >were >to take initiate actions against outside aggressors, it would >certainly >throw the state of political affairs in the Known World into a great >big >mess. > >2) Darokin isn't exactly suited to staging a full scale war against >anyone, particularly at the moment. They are still recovering from the > >Great War, and have the Shadow Elves and other menaces (or potential >menaces) to concern themselves with at the moment. > >3) The Shires weren't threatened by Hule (though if the Master came >back > they might be) and so probably wouldn't see any point in an >aggressive > attack hundreds of miles away on his territory. > >> > >Good point! Why fought the hin in WotI on the side of Darokin? Are >there any >hin >clans in Hule or the Black Mountains? The Five Shires were allied w/ Karameikos and Darokin pre-WotI, weren't they? Perhaps some raiding parties attacked the Shires? It would be a situation similar to when the US entered WW 1. Remember from RW history? :) >BTW, with an order founded by a good number of high level adventurers >this >kind >war would not only be interesting, but the mission is accomplishable. >Don't >forget that this time the surprise would be on side of the Eastern. > > And finally two questions: Is Mystara a high fantastic world or not? >Why >should >always the evil nations swarm over the good? It's a very often used >concept! >Let's make something complete new. The good nations come surprisingly >over >the evil! > An interesting idea. However, it wouldn't work. The First Crusade caught the Muslims by suprise, but in Mystara there's magical communication and the Master's forces are already on "high red-alert readiness" given that Sind seems about to erupt into a full scale revolution. The invaders would suceed at first, but what would they do after liberating Sind? They would have the humanoid and Hulean-filled Black Mountains to the north, the burning Sind Desert to the east, and the Sea of Dread to the south. With the army tired after the long campaign, the only option would be to head home. Then the Master would regather his forces and possibly retake Sind. Then years later, the Second MCrusade would be launched and the whole cycle would repeat. The eventual result would leave Sind a ruined battle field, and the WDL without resources and an easy takeover for any invader. > > Rolf > "Ooops." -PC after damaging the Doomsday device ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:36:56 -0500 From: Aron Reif Subject: Re: [Mystara] The latest comprehensive index At 07:12 PM 11/26/97 -0800, you wrote: > >The INVISIBLE INK Series > >Although these are meant to be played solo, additional text is provided for a >DM who wishes to take a group of players through the adventure. As all >invisible ink pens have dried out since these were printed, it may be difficult >to reveal all of the text. In addition, it may be impossible to read these >modules if they are in poor condition. > >Code Title Description Setting in Mystara >M1 Blizzard Pass Adventure Explicit >M2 Maze of the Riddling Minotaur Adventure Implicit > The pens that came with my copy of Blizzard Pass still work. I tried them tonight just to make sure. It takes a few minutes for the chemicals to make the ink visible, tho. Even after a few minutes, the ink is still very light. I think the invisible ink chemicals are decomposing. Aron Reif areif@erols.com NICE work, by the way! I didn't know some of those magazines even existed... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:26:31 -0500 From: Aron Reif Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Royal Castle At 03:27 AM 11/27/97 -0500, you wrote: > >That's one of the reasons many, including myself, don't take Ierendi >very seriuosly. It basically seems like a resort country, what with all >of the resorts and leisure activities. A lot of the time, it tends to >feel as if the country is tacky or shallow. Basically, Ierendi is a >sort of a place where things tend to take on a fantasy aspect according >to a Mystaran. It's where they get to role-play. > I've always felt Ierendi got a bad rap. Ok, the vacation resort style themes are pretty stupid, but if you get rid of those, you've still got a bunch to work with. Safari Island pretty much has to be re-worked, but the other islands don't have to be changed much to totally remove all traces of "resort". This leaves the Gaz a little light on concrete information, but the overall Polynesian/Caribean culture remains intact. This just means you have to work a little harder as a DM. Aron Reif areif@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 01:17:57 -0500 (EST) From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] E'aar and their origins In a message dated 97-11-27 16:00:34 EST, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it writes: << Anyway, i still don't get it: how can followers of Ilsundal and Mealiden co-live side by side with Eiryndul's ones?... >> Among people who know the history of Ilsundal or Eiryndul, it may be impossible. But the winged elves were approached by both Immortals and liked them both -- and each one would have alienated his followers if he suggested that followers of one become unfriendly to followers of the other. So among these elves they put up with each other.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:52:08 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [Mystara] E'aar and their origins >In a message dated 97-11-27 16:00:34 EST, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it writes: > ><< Anyway, i still don't get it: how can followers of Ilsundal and Mealiden > co-live side by side with Eiryndul's ones?... >> > >Among people who know the history of Ilsundal or Eiryndul, it may be >impossible. But the winged elves were approached by both Immortals >and liked them both -- and each one would have alienated his followers >if he suggested that followers of one become unfriendly to followers of >the other. So among these elves they put up with each other.... And you should remember that despite what one might think Eiryndul and Ilsundal are not enemies. They are in competition to gain the following of the elven clans, and they don't have the same history and philosophy, but as stated in the codex of the immortals they are not sworn enemies. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 13:14:38 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Immortals' petition locations I was thinking about the place where an Immortal candidate goes to petition an Immortal to be his patron. The rules say that it can be anywhere, even a perfectly normal temple somewhere nearby. However, since the Immortal appears there in his *manifestation* form (using aura and all), wouldn't it be kind of unbalancing if that place was, say, in the middle of Thyatis City? If the Immortal is allowed to use his aura, what other things can he do? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 13:53:47 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Ylari Immortals before Al-Kalim Hello, Somehow I couldn't believe that Ylari didn't worship any Immortals before Al-Kalim (he's only been around for 100 years). So, I made a short list of possible Immortals whom the Ylari could have honored. This also means that some of these Immortals are mightily p***ed off with Al-Kalim for 'stealing' their worshippers. Here's the list: Ylari Immortals before Al-Kalim Ashtiru (Asterius) - mover of the moon, protector of travellers and caravans. Not really opposed to Al-Kalim's takeover, since all merchants (and thieves) worship him indirectly anyway. Al-Fakish (Alphaks) - lord of evil and violence; had human sacrifices. Not a widely followed Immortal, but he helped the Ylari against Alphatian oppressors. Bitter enemy of Al-Kalim; he still tries to influence the Emirates through his secret idol-worshippers. Balsam (Chardastes) - patron of healing. The word 'balm' comes from his name. He is fairly neutral to Al-Kalim, since he wanted to devote his attention mostly to Traladara. His name is still sometimes invoked by wise women who heal illnesses. Farath (Protius) - old man of the sea, lord of water. He was the patron of Al-Kalim. He was happy to allow Al-Kalim take over the Emirates, since he is only interested in the seas. Hilawi (Halav) - patron of warfare. He protects the Ylari against monstrous enemies. He accepted Al-Kalim's takeover in good spirits, since he had a large follower base anyway, and wanted to give a novice Immortal a fair chance. Jurwash (Zirchev) - patron of vegetation and desert creatures. He is neutral to Al-Kalim, since he's still worshipped by many intelligent desert creatures! Qayjar (Kagyar) - patron of smiths and other craftsmen. Remains friendly with Al-Kalim, as dwarves and Ylari are allies. Rushtam (Rathanos) - lord of flame and destruction. Honored by efreet and Magian Fire Worshippers. Not exactly on the best of terms with Al-Kalim, but then again, only efreet and Ylari flame wizards ever worshipped him (and they still do). Shams (Ixion) - father sun, banisher of darkness. Once again, his follower base is so large that he wasn't affected by loss of Ylaruam. 'Udnan (Odin) - lord of thunder, lightning, and winds. Many djinn honor him. Again, he has a lot of followers, so no problem. Comments? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 13:58:45 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Sindhi Immortals Another Immortals post ;) I always considered that Sindhi honor a lot of Immortals (like RW Hindus), but only two were officially mentioned. So, I made a (long) list of names under which Sindhi know various Immortals. IMO the Sindhi pretty much take in any Immortal that comes along, just in case so that he won't be offended at them. Sind is a good place for a novice Immortal to gain some starting worshippers, until he can establish himself better. Note that most of these Immortals don't have Rishiyas (clerics) in Sind, but they are nonetheless recognized and their names invoked in appropriate situations. Sindhi Names for Immortals Ahmanni (turtles, whales) - Ahumani Al-Kalim (vegetation, Asanda river) - Kalman Alphaks (demon of violence and rage) - Athaksha Alphatia (pacifism) - Latehani Arik (ancient demon imprisoned by Himayeti) - Arikha Asterius (trade, thieves) - Asuradha Atruaghin (longevity, safety) - Atrughanya Atzanteotl (corruption) - Acchanital Bagni - not known Bartziluth - not known Bemarris - not known Brissard (treacherous offerings) - Bhrisrada Calitha Starbrow (sea, monsoons) - Kalithasi Chardastes (medicine, healing) - Khridasa Chiron - not known Crakkak - not known Cretia (pranks) - Kritya Danel (tigers, hunting) - Danal Demogorgon (demon of destruction) - Dhamurgana Diamond (benevolent creatures) - Rohin Diulanna (willpower) - Dhalani Djaea (survival, protection of land) - Jaivana Eiryndul (mischief) - Ayodhnal Faunus (hedonism) - Panesha Forsetta (law) - Prisatha Frey (counseling, advising) - Parjana Freya (good heroes) - Parjani Garl (invention) - Gharal Gorm - not known Gorrziok (giants) - Gurjakha Great One (ruler of dragons and nagas) - Mahanaga Halav (warfare, defense) - Halavan Harrow - not known Hattani (bears, comfort) - Hathanya Hel (destruction, death) - Kala Ilsundal (wisdom, magic) - Isrundra Ixion (sun, fighting demons, creation, protection, destruction) - Ayazi/Himayeti/Aksyri Jammudaru (ogres, destruction of art) - Jammudaru Ka (protection of creatures) - Kah Kagyar (arts) - Kaghara Kallala - not known Karaash (war, bloodshed) - Ksharyah Khoronus (time, destiny) - Khauran Korotiku (thought) - Karut Koryis (peace, prosperity) - Kurya Kythria - not known Leptar (demon of pain) - Lapitri Liena - not known Lokena - not known Loki (betrayal, lies) - Lukya, also Bhajyagwan Maat (many talents, justice) - Mata Madarua - not known Mahmatti (spiritualism, meditation) - Mahamatya Malafor - not known Marwdyn (necromancy) - Maravidya Masauwu (temptation) - Mavasa Mealiden (agility, sharp sight) - Milidhan Minroth (patron of Minrothad, known in coastal cities) - Minuratha Noumena (riddles, games, tactics) - Nauman Nyx (night, darkness) - Nikhi Odin (wise rule, kings) - Vadhana Opal (neutral creatures) - Bhaskar Orcus (demon of slaughter) - Auraksha Ordana (nature, fertility) - Uradhani Palartarkan (air magic) - Palatrikana Palson - not known Patura - not known Pearl (malevolent creatures) - Chandri Petra (defending cities) - Pitari Pflarr (learning, study) - Vrilatha Polunius (architecture) - Paulanah Protius (oceans, seas) - Puratha Rad (sorcerers) - Radhya Rafiel - not known Ranivorus (demon of perversion) - Yainughu Rathanos (fire, desert) - Rathanasri Razud (self-sufficiency) - Rajudha Saasskas (demon of drowning and sacrifices) - Sakasi Sharpcrest - not known Shining One - not known Sinbad (sailors, voyages) - Sinbhada Slizzark - not known Ssu-Ma (literature, knowledge) - Shuma Tahkati (horsemanship, storms) - Takhata Talitha (misfortune, ruin) - Talithi Tarastia (justice, revenge) - Trisathi Taroyas - not known Terra (earth) - Prithivi Thanatos (death, oblivion) - Tanathasa Thor (honor, warriors) - Thauran Tiresias (music) - Tirasa Turmis - not known Twelve Watchers (craftsmen) - twelve incarnations of Dhauragara Usamigaras - not known Valerias (love, beauty, passion) - Valiryasi Vanya (war, conquest) - Vanyani Verthandi (time, history) - Vrithanda Wayland (smiths, building) - Vailanda Wogar (wild beasts) - Vaughara Yagrai (plagues, disease, vengeance) - Yagharya Yav (divination, prophecy) - Yavadha Zirchev (animals) - Jirchava ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:25:09 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics: a treatise (LONG) Andrew wrote: <> It could be. However, in this case those nine seedlings should be considered not avatars of Ilsundal but.. "vegetal titans" as you proposed. Yet they do function like any ToL described in Companion set (actually, they are the reference to look at when judging the nature of other ToL). BUT this doesn't mean your hypothesis isn't true. I don't believe they all were created because so many Treekeepers failed their attempts at becoming Immortals: there cannot be so many would be immortals in a small area such as the Sylvan Realm in only 1000 years (well, at least that's my impression). However, i could think about Treekeepers who sacrified themselves for their race and clans accepting to become the vehicles of Ilsundal's power. The ceremony for the creation of the nine seedlings could have in fact required an extreme act of distress on the part of the Treekeepers (Ilsundal had to create nine seedlings from the Original Tree, and we know there is a strong bond between Treekeepers and the ToL), so extreme that they knew they would have faced death itself. Maybe Ilsundal wanted to reward them for their loyalty and sacrifice and allowed their spirit to reside inside the new seedlings, thus making them sentient. In this case they would be slightly different from the original Tree in the sense that they are still living avatars of Ilsundal but only because the spirit that inhabits them is that of a Treekeeper (who in in fact "a living avatar of Ilsundal" according to the religious beliefs, much like a cleric of Kagyar is a "living avatar" of the deity -i found this reference in GAZ6). So Ilsundal gives them all the spells and powers he gave to the Original Tree, but they don't count as avatars of him. Much less expensive in terms of Power Points. ;) <> AFAIK, Mealiden never passed thru the Savage Coast. The Rainbow Path, as you know, is an interplanar phenomenon that transported the elves directly from the Sylvan Realm to Thyatis, and the lands upon which it passes are charted in CM7 and they don't include the Savage Coast. This way i think the elves you're referring to must have been part of Ilsundal's migration, and so they couldn't possibly have had any Tree of Life. Ah! Here's the event you mentioned: "Elves appeared in the region roughly 3,300 years ago and spread throughout the eastern and central Savage Coast. They did not affect the local cultures in any significant way; while living alongside the Oltecs, the elves did not mingle much with them." (Red Steel, Lands of the Savage Coast book, page 6) This testifies that the elves that spread in the SC belonged to Ilsundal's migration (BC 2300, that's "roughly 3,300 years ago") and so they could't possibly have any ToL since non had been already created. <> Yes! Very good idea! It's also very close to our Tree of Life, the one God created in the early days in the Garden of Eden. I'd go with this hypothesis! <> Well, Since it was in Evergrun (which is obvious to anyone is Mystara version of our Eden) it is now lost (Evergrun was obliterated when the axis shifted.. or if not really obliterated, probably is now buried under the ices). However, two possible scenarios come to my mind: it is possible that Ordana transported Evergrun to her homeplane before it was destroyed, and it is there that the Elves go now where they die (very close to our beliefs). It is also possible that Evergrun still exists under the ices of the southern hemisphere, and in this case whoever might venture there could make the greatest discovery of them all: an immense and mighty tree completely preserved under the ice that stands in the middle of those icy and dangerous mountains.. a tree with magical properties.. Imagine a scenario similar to HPL's "At the mountains of Madness" but with a mighty ancient relic instead of Lovecraft's horrors. But if you want to give your players some chill (besides that of the extreme latitude;)), then the Tree might also be sentient, a primeval Gakarak with the powers we mentioned which can speak to the minds of the nearby people and which is gone a little crazy after all those years (or maybe has been corrupted by a nearby Burrower..). Now it wants to be awakened and freed from its icy prison, and it will manipulate whoever stumbles upon it to free itself.. and maybe its Burrower master.. Brrr, a most definitely twisted version of Eden (read Clive Barker's "Waveworld" to have a better image of a crazed Guardian Angel and of a deserted Eden).. DM "There are things better left untouched.. and my tail is one of these!" Khordarg the Red Dragon to his hatchlings ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:26:24 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Latests List of Dave Many thanx to Dave Keyser for his work! I needed a review of those issues of Dragon and Dungeon and Polyhedron to insert in the updated Product List and also for my personal use! ;) However, there is one Dungeon issue you've not listed the number: >28 Explicit Broken Lands Short encounter to be > included in HWA1 >?? Implicit any frontier outpost Murder mystery >34 Implicit Minrothad/remote island Could you tell me which number it is? Thanx again! DM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:27:18 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics (LONG) Herve wrote: >Great work Marco! >Everything you write is very fine (I love it) but it makes me think to other >questions... ;) Thanx for the compliments and thank you all who appreciated my article. You make me feel my efforts are useful, after all ;) Now, let's see these questions (which i somehow expected): <> OK, this is easy in a way. The ancestors of the Shadow Elves volountarily accepted to migrate and to settle near Blackmoor because, as we all know, they were fascinate with the technology and the goods produced by Blackmoor. They had been "tainted" by the human technology so to speak, and had no more faith in the Old Ways of Ordana. Once they set sail together with the merchants of Blackmoor they were lost to their kin and to Ordana, and they no longer needed her nor a relic to live on. They had embraced Blackmoor love for technology, progress and wealth and so had other values to follow: no need for an old silly unproductive faith. However, the situation is different and much more complicated to explain when we come to examine the Geffronells (Denagoth elves) and the Aquarendi. Why did these two clans migrated northwards and decided not to be influenced by Blackmoor? They could have remained in Evergrun, where Ordana protected them.. Well, i have some explanations that right now come to my mind. First hypothesis: the Aquarendi clanmembers were explorers at heart and loved much more the sea than the forested land (it can happen even in the best families ;)). This had made them a sort of "outcasts" in Evergrun, not really shunned by other elves but regarded as being a bit obsessed with trivial things (the sea, the other lands, to travel across the world..). They obviously didn't feel to belong to Evergrun any longer and so decided to migrate northwards. They wanted to sail the immense ocean and to brave the currents, to see new lands and meet new people. And so they sailed until they finally stopped near Blackmoor, in the lands south of karameikos that are now under the Sea of Dread. Blackmoor tried to "corrupt" them and to force them to embrace its culture and values, but they refused: they had always been free at the heart and didn't want to become slaves of technology. But what could they do against the mighty Empire of Blackmoor? Where could they hide from its long tentacles? They tried to obtain the help of the Forest Mother, Ordana, but she had foresaken them. So they begged the immortals to help them, they begged the sea to swallow them and hide them from the fat merchants of Blackmoor.. and the sea answered to their calls. From Daniel's Timeline: "BC 3100: The Aquarendi clan are finally sick of the continual pressure from the Blackmoor elves to embrace technology. The Aquarendi have tried to gain aid from Ordana but she is unhappy with all elves at the moment and how most they have turned from her path. The Aquarendi seek the guardianship of Manwara, an Immortal of the sea who is more open to their plight, and enter the warm waters to begin a new life. (PC3 modified)" In this case we could say they didn't need the Tree of Ordana anymore because they had adopted a new mentality. They wanted to be free and the masters of their own life and so they refused all the chains imposed by their religion and their society. Self-respect and willpower were they new values around which the Aquarendi society was built. Unfortunately when the pressure of the Blackmoorian culture became too oppressive their sense of selfreliance and security began to falter and they began to question their past decisions. Had they really done well leaving Evergrun and their brethern? Was it really good to have abandoned the faith of Ordana? In the moment of their maximum crisis, their new values crumbled against the oppressive push of the Blackmoorian culture and society and they searched help like their ancestors had taught them to do: they prayed. When logic and reality crumbles, the power of religion and faith becomes stronger. However, Ordana had forsaken them because of their previous acts and was already trying to protect the elves of Evergrun (you will note that Ordana's anger towards the elves that betrayed her is surprisingly similar to that of God in the Old Testament, a vengeful deity it seems). So they sent their prayers to the only being they could still call friend: the sea. And the sea answered their call, welcoming them in his sheltering embrace: this way the acquatic elves were born, and they started again to praise the Immortals (Manwara who had saved them and Tallivai who led them thru the ensuing hardships) like in the old ways. But what about the Geffronells? My take on it is that they wanted to find a new land where they could prosper. Maybe Evergrun was becoming to crowded, or maybe their leader thought he could ascend to immortality if he created another paradise for the elves to counterbalance Blackmoor's expansionism. Whichever the case, they abandoned Evergrun and headed northwards, settling finally near Blackmoor but never giving to the lures of its culture like their brethern did. I believe they still clinged to the Old Way once there, living in the forest and worshipping Ordana, so they continued to live like they did in Evergrun. Given the fact that they shun contact with Blackmoor (their position was probably not noticed by Blackmoorians -thanx to Ordana?), their society grew stronger than that of the Aquarendi, too much influenced by too many cultures, and their faith became radicated. Still they lacked a relic, is it not so? In this case you are probably right when you say that the real "Faith in the Relic" began to spread only after the creation of the ToL, but you must acknowledge the existence of the Tree of Ordana. So what was the elves' attitude towards it? The reverence towards this One Tree (i'm clinging to Andrew's idea of "One tree of Ordana only" here) likely harbored the seeds of the later Faith in the Relic, but was probably not so "essential" to the unity of the elven society. After all, those were the days when Ordana frequently spoke to her children thru the Forest Spirits, so there was a closer link between Immortals and elves, a different perception of the elves' place in the world. They were the gifted ones, those who had the power over the forces of nature and magic: this alone was the symbol of their unity as a race. The One Tree was only the concrete proof of these things: that they had been the chosen ones. So, even the Geffronell who lived thousands of miles away still believed in their bond with nature and Ordana even without seeing the One Tree every day. The problems came after the Great Rain of Fire.. <> Yes, this is a delicate point. As i've said before, the "faith in the relic" attitude consolidates only after Ilsundal's ascension to the Immortals. Why? Well, you must consider this: after the GroF the world as the elves knew it changed. They lost their Eden (were forced to flee from it), lost the sign of their exalted status among the other living beings (the One Tree of Ordana) and probably lost a great deal of faith in their powers. Yet they still lived and they had a lush forest to inhabit, so this testified Ordana had not abandoned them, though maybe she was a little upset because of the brethern who had turned their back on her and embraced the Blackmoorian devious culture. They went on living for about two centuries before a new tension finally erupted. New followers of the Blackmoorian way had rediscovered technology and didn't want to abandon its ways. Worse yet: they were trying to seduce others to embrace those foul arts. The elves did know what had happened before and knew that their land was slowly changing, becoming more and more inhospitable. They needed somthing to unite them once more, now more than ever. And Ilsundal came. He served as focus for the beliefs and hopes of the elves in a troubled time: in a way i dare say he was a living relic from the very beginning, guiding his people like no other elf had done before, with a clear idea in his mind. He wanted to find again the Lost Land: he knew it had been destroyed, but he also believed that the elves could rebuild it in another place. He knew there were still elves in the north who migrated there before the Blackmoor catastrohpe (the Geffronells) and who followed the Old Way: he wanted to find them to build the new age with them. He was a charismatic leader and he was able to inspire the elves to leave a doomed Grunland (maybe advised by Ordana) in order to search for a better tomorrow. And at the end he succeeded. But he also knew that once he was gone the elves would probably have had to face new problems and shisms, and he wanted to prevent this. So he gave them their new symbol of unity: the Tree of Life, or better the Relic! In an age of lost symbols, he gave them a new and concrete one that resembled the One Tree: this way the circle closed and all the elves returned in communion with the forest and the old ways once more. So yes Herve, ilsundal was surely the one who began the cult of the relic, but the cult had older origins IMHO, and this explains why it held so much to the elves. <> As for these two questions, i hope my previous post detailing the Vyalia, te Shiye and the Trueflowers have shed some light about the matter. IMHO the Vyalia have ToL and the Shiye got their one, but discarded it along the way the way i described (a too cumbersome burden from the religious point of view).. :) <> As you noted, Gentle Folk are the perfect result of a clan with no relics and the need to believe in something.. As for the Blacklore, they are "tainted" by the Blackmoor technology and can no longer be classified as "religious elves". Technology is their religion and they have their techno relics all around them.. Yet they are not truly alive, maybe because they feel they are leading only a parody of their former existence, when they were one with nature.. As you all can see, it's the myth and the dream of the lost Eden (Evergrun) that returns constantly during the elves' history. DM ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #215 ***************************** From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #216 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Sunday, November 30 1997 Volume 02 : Number 216 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:38:09 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] E'aar and their origins At 21.17 27/11/97 +0100, Brizio wrote: >At 16.43 27/11/97 +0100, DM wrote: > > >> Now, that's really strange. Why should the e'aars worship Immortals >>they've never known? Ilsundal became Immortal after they settled in the Arm >>(around BC 2300?) and probably after they acquired their wings. Mealiden was >>unknown to them as much as Eiryndul, but yet they worship them. My idea is >>that the authors of the sourcebook believed that all the elves of Mystara >>worship the Elven Immortals, a consequence of the fact they didn't know >>Mystara that well. > >I'm sorry to disappoint you here, Marco. >The first one to describe E'aars and their Immortals was Bruce Heard in >Dragon #200 and I think you don't believe that Bruce doesn't know Mystara, >do you? ;-) >Authors of OH simply copied Bruce's words (more or less). *blushing* D'ho! Well, i certainly didn't mean to offend Bruce. But did he state that Eiryndul was worshipped by the E'aar (that's what i questioned)? If so then, could you explain us why, Bruce? DM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 13:24:21 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals' petition locations I would suggest a place that is connected to the Immortal in some way. Where he was born or died (if that was how he ascended). Or maybe the spot he used to go to get away from it all or where he ascended to immortality. Probably would be somewhere out of the way where he's not allowed any thing to be built beyond a simple alter. Galwylin - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm - ---------- > From: Aleksei Andrievski > To: mystara-l@lists.io.com > Subject: [Mystara] Immortals' petition locations > Date: Friday, November 28, 1997 5:14 AM > > > I was thinking about the place where an Immortal candidate goes to > petition an Immortal to be his patron. The rules say that it can be > anywhere, even a perfectly normal temple somewhere nearby. However, since > the Immortal appears there in his *manifestation* form (using aura and > all), wouldn't it be kind of unbalancing if that place was, say, in the > middle of Thyatis City? If the Immortal is allowed to use his aura, what > other things can he do? > > > ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord > ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but > ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." > ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, > ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." > ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." > ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:26:11 -0500 From: lordvalen@juno.com (Jakklyph Valen Kroe) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Classic D&D Renewal project... I personally don't play the "original" D&D game, but I'm all for a faction of 'purists' being among us Mystarans! Actually, I like all the options available to players and judges in the AD&D system, even Player's Option. After all, no rule is written in stone anyway! Also, who doesn't make up their own house rules to go along with the game? Lord Valen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:24:42 -0500 From: lordvalen@juno.com (Jakklyph Valen Kroe) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sinaria Verlien I'm sorry, but who is Sinaria Verlien? I only have G:KoM and PWAIII, so apparantly I wouldn't have any source with her in it (that I remember, and I thought I went through each of them pretty well). Help! Lord Valen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:39:50 -0500 From: lordvalen@juno.com (Jakklyph Valen Kroe) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Operation Hydra Day 10 I for one am really enjoying this battle. Regardless of whether or not it has any relevance on the (un)"official" goings on of Mystara or the SE corner of Brun, it's fascinating. And from what I've seen, it has been quite an undertaking of time and imagination, the latter of which is, after all, the essence of all our RPG experiences, is it not???? Lord Valen On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:07:11 -0500 (EST) RRossmanek@aol.com writes: >In einer eMail vom 19.11.97 16:46:59 MEZ, schreiben Sie: > ><< Well, here we go again. I tried to send this earlier. I waited >almost a >week > longer this time before resending. Last time, the first try appeared >a day >or > so after I resent it. > > Force A- Adm. Helena's Force arrives at their planned landing beach >around > mid day. Adm. Helena sends the wargalleys of 9th and 10th Reg. of 3rd >and >...>> > >Excuse me, but what's that story good for? (No insult meant) > > > Rolf > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 16:44:19 -0500 From: Bob Brunciak Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Royal Castle Aron Reif wrote: > I've always felt Ierendi got a bad rap. Ok, the vacation resort > style themes are pretty stupid, but if you get rid of those, you've > still got a bunch to work with. Safari Island pretty much has to be > re-worked, but the other islands don't have to be changed much to > totally remove all traces of "resort". I agree, but that is the only real problem I have with Ierendi; the "resort" aspect of it and the fact that they discuss it so much about it over anything else. Most of the rest is actualy quite fascinating. > This leaves the Gaz a little light on concrete information, but the > overall Polynesian/Caribean culture remains intact. This just > means you have to work a little harder as a DM. I think this may be one of the reasons people tend to disregard Ierendi. Sadly, many people in the world don't regard most Carribean/Polynesian lands as " big players" in the workings of Earth. This could hold true for Ierendi with other countries. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 21:56:02 -0500 (EST) From: Dleggend@aol.com Subject: [Mystara] mystara UA modules I was just wondering if anybody here has made mystara modules for the Unlimited Adventures program? Dleggend http://members.aol.com/dleggend/Intro.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 04:18:08 -0500 (EST) From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sinaria Verlien In a message dated 97-11-28 16:47:34 EST, lordvalen@juno.com writes: << I'm sorry, but who is Sinaria Verlien? I only have G:KoM and PWAIII, so apparantly I wouldn't have any source with her in it (that I remember, and I thought I went through each of them pretty well). Help! >> If you read the section of G:KoM on Krondahar and Prince Jherek you will find out everything about her -- it is on p. 53, near the end. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 04:18:12 -0500 (EST) From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] mystara UA modules In a message dated 97-11-28 22:33:06 EST, Dleggend@AOL.com writes: << I was just wondering if anybody here has made mystara modules for the Unlimited Adventures program? >> I am pretty sure that nobody has -- such a module would have attracted my attention immediately. But if anyone wishes to do so, I will gladly help out with the hacks -- just e-mail me to let me know such things as your race/ class/level requirements. In case you have access to back issues of the UA Newsletter, I think I may have mentioned some ideas for a Mystara based hack, but I could probably improve on them if I were to undertake this project today. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 04:18:10 -0500 (EST) From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Royal Castle In a message dated 97-11-28 18:08:29 EST, brunciak@erols.com writes: << I think this may be one of the reasons people tend to disregard Ierendi. Sadly, many people in the world don't regard most Carribean/Polynesian lands as " big players" in the workings of Earth. This could hold true for Ierendi with other countries. >> Of course Ierendi has a couple of advantages over its real world counterparts -- a large and powerful navy as well as good relations with its aquatic humanoid neighbors (in stark contrast to Minrothad, for example). But it is true that Ierendi has mostly defensive strength - -- the inhabitants have little reason to want to project their power onto other nations. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 05:29:48 -0500 (EST) From: RRossmanek@aol.com Subject: [Mystara] Bye bye Hi Folks, I'm leaving now, but beware: I might return... in a much darker identity :-> Rolf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 05:30:50 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics: a treatise (LONG) << However, i could think about Treekeepers who sacrified themselves for their race and clans accepting to become the vehicles of Ilsundal's power. >> Do you ever have read "Shannara" from Terry Brooks? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 05:30:47 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] E'aar and their origins << Anyway, i still don't get it: how can followers of Ilsundal and Mealiden co-live side by side with Eiryndul's ones?... >> I have to remember you, that in Narvaez the followers of Ixion and Vanya live together and practice the inquisition. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 05:30:48 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: Thyatis, Rome, and Byzantium << Yes, but don't remind me about football NOW... :-( >> I know what you mean. My favored club is playing really bad in this season. << You mean that they'll start playing football in the coliseum instead of making gladiator shows? :-) >> Charming idea! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 05:30:46 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Undead and Day of Dread << So, although they must have been using temporary magic to sustain themselves, what you said about the permanency spells would explain how some others stayed alive during that time. >> The Day of Dread is not the same as the Week without Magic... at least not yet. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 05:30:46 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics: a treatise (REALLY LONG) << Hm, could there be elven clans wo still have original trees? Rolf P.S.: The problem with dwarvish Forges of Power remains unresolved. >> Trees? Who needs trees when he have a steppe? Dwarves, very useful, as long as our own people haven't taken their secrets. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 05:30:43 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] E'aar and their origins << Given that Ilsundal is worshiped by (among others) the humans of Eusdria on the Savage Coast, it should not be surprising to find any Immortal worshiped anywhere. The Elven Immortals would have noticed a new race of winged elves and would have raced to reveal themselves to these potential worshipers. The only thing that needs explaining is why Aeryl did not have their full loyalty. >> This weak woman never reached immortality!! Jamuga Khan Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 05:30:50 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sindhi Immortals << Another Immortals post ;) I always considered that Sindhi honor a lot of Immortals (like RW Hindus), but only two were officially mentioned. So, I made a (long) list of names under which Sindhi know various Immortals. IMO the Sindhi pretty much take in any Immortal that comes along, just in case so that he won't be offended at them. Sind is a good place for a novice Immortal to gain some starting worshippers, until he can establish himself better. Note that most of these Immortals don't have Rishiyas (clerics) in Sind, but they are nonetheless recognized and their names invoked in appropriate situations. >> The best place for a new immortal to begin is on the steppes of the Ethengar. We have at least one cleric for eaach immortal. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 05:30:49 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Power Vacuum in Mystara << An interesting idea. However, it wouldn't work. The First Crusade caught the Muslims by suprise, but in Mystara there's magical communication and the Master's forces are already on "high red-alert readiness" given that Sind seems about to erupt into a full scale revolution. The invaders would suceed at first, but what would they do after liberating Sind? They would have the humanoid and Hulean-filled Black Mountains to the north, the burning Sind Desert to the east, and the Sea of Dread to the south. With the army tired after the long campaign, the only option would be to head home. Then the Master would regather his forces and possibly retake Sind. Then years later, the Second MCrusade would be launched and the whole cycle would repeat. The eventual result would leave Sind a ruined battle field, and the WDL without resources and an easy takeover for any invader. >> Cut the head of the snake, not the tail. When the Master fall, Hule's nearly defenseless. As you said, there's a lot of magic. A really good group of adventurers as special command could do this. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 05:30:46 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages << I have an idea taken from examples of ancient history (like Roman patricians o Feudalistic nobles and peers): the members of the council were (and are) able to hereditarily transmit their position, so that, if the heir is able enough to keep the family name in the council, he can be a member only for his great-great-grandfather (for instance) having been a 36th Level Wizard or so. He himself can just be a Name Level Mage, a lesser wizard or even a diferent character class or normar man! At the same time, apt individuals of power and merit could gain a place, too, thus making the aforesaid number possible... only that the true numer of functional (nor just "honorific") number of maximum-level sorcerers would be far lower. I have taken the idea from the roman Senate, which from 300 at its beginnig grew to more than 1200 during the Empire, without the "magical" multiplication o kings-times noble families.... >> I don't have any problems with so many wizards level 36, were there not so few in the rest of the world. BTW, all spellcaster have the same rights in Alphatia, so it were against imperial law not to let clerics, druids, paladins and avengers into the council. They only have to be level 36 spellcaster. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:13:32 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [Mystara] mystara UA modules At 09:56 PM 11/28/97 -0500, Dleggend@aol.com wrote: >I was just wondering if anybody here has made mystara modules for the >Unlimited Adventures program? Could someone tell me what the "Unlimited Adventures" program is? I'm curious to know more about something that could have 'mystara modules' made for it... Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:44:35 -0500 From: "Arthur D. Reynolds" Subject: Re: [Mystara] mystara UA modules Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: > > At 09:56 PM 11/28/97 -0500, Dleggend@aol.com wrote: > >I was just wondering if anybody here has made mystara modules for the > >Unlimited Adventures program? > > Could someone tell me what the "Unlimited Adventures" program is? I'm > curious to know more about something that could have 'mystara modules' made > for it... > > Jenni > > -- > Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs > strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ > <------------------------------------------------------------------> > God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. > Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" > And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" UA was a program for designing computer adventures like "Pool of Radiance" and "Curse of the Azure Bonds". It was released by SSI, but didn't sell very well. I picked up a copy last year in a CD ROM value bundle of AD&D software. The cost was 20.00 dollars or so for 7 AD&D based CD ROMs. Notes from the Front, Arthur D. Reynolds.... THe Turk Visit the under-construction ADND-L Netbook site for updates on The Arcanium Netbook: http://www.geocities.com/~denmaster/netbook/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 16:01:00 -0500 (EST) From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] mystara UA modules In a message dated 97-11-29 15:16:48 EST, strawberry@jamm.com writes: << Could someone tell me what the "Unlimited Adventures" program is? I'm curious to know more about something that could have 'mystara modules' made for it... >> It is a CRPG (computer role-playing game) construction kit that was put out by SSI back in 1993. Its original design supports creation of computer role playing games based on 1st edition AD&D rules -- these games would be similar in style to the AD&D "gold box" games of the same period. My mention of "hacks" refers to UA Shell and various editors designed to alter "unchangeable" parts of the UA program and data base -- thus, for example, we could change the level limits to match OD&D rather than AD&D, for example. Anyway, since I have been on the AOL message boards and the "frua-dev" mailing list for most of that time and have been interested in Mystara/Known World for even longer, I would have been in a unique position to notice any modules oriented towards Mystara that came out. I once considered creating a module based on the Companion level module "Tree of Life" but abandoned that project because of other priorities. As far as I know, nobody else has written a UA module based on Mystara -- if they have, it has not received wide Internet distribution. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 16:20:05 -0500 From: Aron Reif Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Royal Castle Bob wrote: >Aron Reif wrote: > >> I've always felt Ierendi got a bad rap. Ok, the vacation resort >> style themes are pretty stupid, but if you get rid of those, you've >> still got a bunch to work with. Safari Island pretty much has to be >> re-worked, but the other islands don't have to be changed much to >> totally remove all traces of "resort". > > I agree, but that is the only real problem I have with Ierendi; the >"resort" aspect of it and the fact that they discuss it so much about it >over anything else. Most of the rest is actualy quite fascinating. > Yes, the "resort" stuff seems to take over the Gaz, doesn't it? I'll have to re-check this, but I seem to remember that there really wasn't all that much "resort" stuff actually there. Unfortunately, the "resort" pamphlet in the middle of the book really stands out, so I can understand why people think that the whole Gaz is just full of the stuff. Maybe we (the MML) should undertake a minor re-write of the Gaz? Anybody interested? I'd be glad to contribute, but I wouldn't want to try to do it all myself. >> This leaves the Gaz a little light on concrete information, but the >> overall Polynesian/Caribean culture remains intact. This just >> means you have to work a little harder as a DM. > >I think this may be one of the reasons people tend to disregard >Ierendi. Sadly, many people in the world don't regard most >Carribean/Polynesian lands as " big players" in the workings of Earth. >This could hold true for Ierendi with other countries. Maybe. The Ierendian Navy is described as the best in the Known World, although probably not the biggest or most powerful. Since they are the best, not many countries can afford to discount them, even if they have less ships than some of the bigger guys. However, they haven't played much of a role in world politics recently, so the other countries probably ignore Ierendi more than they should. Aron Reif areif@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 17:54:07 -0500 (EST) From: Dleggend@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] mystara UA modules In a message dated 97-11-29 16:09:19 EST, you write: << As far as I know, nobody else has written a UA module based on Mystara -- if they have, it has not received wide Internet distribution. >> Well maybe some of us from the list can start creating our own UA Mystara modules. Dleggend http://members.aol.com/dleggend/Intro.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 17:56:56 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Power Vacuum in Mystara On Sat, 29 Nov 1997 05:30:49 -0500 (EST) JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: ><< An interesting idea. However, it wouldn't work. The First >Crusade > caught the Muslims by suprise, but in Mystara there's magical > communication and the Master's forces are already on "high red-alert > readiness" given that Sind seems about to erupt into a full scale > revolution. The invaders would suceed at first, but what would they >do > after liberating Sind? They would have the humanoid and >Hulean-filled > Black Mountains to the north, the burning Sind Desert to the east, >and > the Sea of Dread to the south. With the army tired after the long > campaign, the only option would be to head home. Then the Master >would > regather his forces and possibly retake Sind. Then years later, the > Second MCrusade would be launched and the whole cycle would repeat. >The > eventual result would leave Sind a ruined battle field, and the WDL > without resources and an easy takeover for any invader. >> > > >Cut the head of the snake, not the tail. When the Master fall, Hule's >nearly >defenseless. As you said, there's a lot of magic. A really good group >of >adventurers >as special command could do this. > What else are PCs for? :) However, this post and most likely all posts dealing with the future history of Mystara are stated without PCs taking action. It's up to the individual DMs, if they use these future histories discussed by the list, to determine how much of a role the PCs play. Besides, wasn't the Master killed in X4 or X5 if the PCs succeded? I don't know for sure as I don't have the modules. Also, it wouldn't be very hard for Loki, in a mortal identity to just cast raise dead or any of its derivatives on the Master. Another point, how do we know Hule would just collapse without the Master? Surely there are ambitious generals or other Hulean leaders who could step in as leader. It might throw Hule into chaos for a while, but the armies of Hule would still be there, waiting to be used by the next leader of Hule. > Jamuga >Khan > > >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 19:38:01 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [Mystara] mystara UA modules > I was just wondering if anybody here has made mystara modules for the > Unlimited Adventures program? Not that I know of..a bit off-topic here, but has anyone on the list done any similar projects for games like Adventure Construction Set (loved that game as a kid)? I know both Exile and Realmz have recently made/are making similar construction sets and both use rules systems very similar to D&D (most "computer RPGs" do) also..any plans to work on a Mystara setting for those? Personally, I think a Mystara game using the Exile system would work and have been planning out how to set it up (Thyatis and the nearby islands and Karameikos seems the best possibility). If I would ever buy Blades of Exile, though, is another question. Finally, what about a Mystara MUSH? I've ran that idea through my head a few times but keep thinking that the player base required would be HUGE (100 people probably to get RP in each of the major 30 or so nations at once) and I know few MUSHes can get such a base, especially obscure ones like a Mystara setting. Even the Tolkien MUSH barely gets 100 at a time and it's one of the biggest out there. A smaller MUSH set in Thyatis and its colonies or Norworld or Milenia perhaps? Oh well, just some ideas for you all :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 21:05:55 -0500 (EST) From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] mystara UA modules In a message dated 97-11-29 18:42:18 EST, Dleggend@AOL.Com writes: << Well maybe some of us from the list can start creating our own UA Mystara modules. >> And my offer to help out with hacks and other technical details stands -- after all, it is unlikely that you would want to use straight 1st edition AD&D rules. I look forward to such a module and will be delighted to assist anyone who wishes to take this project on. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 22:06:30 -0500 (EST) From: Dleggend@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] mystara UA modules In a message dated 97-11-29 20:45:04 EST, you write: << I know both Exile and Realmz have recently made/are making similar construction sets and both use rules systems very similar to D&D >> Where can I get these construction sets? Dleggend http://members.aol.com/dleggend/Intro.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 23:46:00 -0500 (EST) From: DUFFISGOD@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI I think thats because the atraughin clas atre a lot more involved with the hollow world. Its my opinion tyhat we would have hard alot more about them in about 1015 1016 if w ever got that far when the hollopw world and known world became more interactive. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 03:35:02 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: [Mystara] Red Steel/Savage Coast I picked up a copy of Red Steel and Savage Baronies and was wondering what is the difference between this product and the Savage Coast materials. I would have gotten both but there wasn't abit of Savage Coast stuff to be found at my bookstore. Galwylin - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 05:22:32 -0500 (EST) From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] E'aar and their origins In a message dated 97-11-27 12:37:26 EST, you write: << So, since we're talking about elves and their background, i thought it would be good to mention also the e'aar, the winged elves of the Immortals' Arm. Here's what you find about their history in the Orc's Head Peninsula sourcebook: " The history of the ee'aar is shrouded in mystery. It is known that they are not native to the Savage Coast and that centuries ago they migrated from a far land called Davania in order to reach the Arm of the Immortals. What prompted the ee'aar to abandon their old home and undertake this dangerous exodus is unknown, but they believe it was to enable them to found a homeland where no one could find them. Most of the ee'aar died on the way; the survivors claimed the high, desolated mountain lands where no foe could easily reach them. Ee'aar myth tells of a lone hunter named Aeryl who trod upon the clouds to reach a magical spire and thereby entered the Realm of Faerie. She lived so long among them that wings grew on her back and she learned much from her faerie friends. Being homesick, she returned and was welcomed back by her kin, who marveled at her wings. She married and passed the wings on to her descendants, until today, centuries after her death, all the ee'aar bear wings and they named their kingdom in her honor." (OH, p.41) >> As you might recall, I made mention of the winged elves in my own Davania. In Complete Book of Elves the e'aar are called averial. I opted for this name due to my own mixing of D&D and ad&d; call it organic d&d. Originally, I had placed the averial on Davania because I found them to be an interesting addition. IMO Davania is a strange land. As such, new (or should I say different) races should be found there. But given this new info, the moves seems even more justifyable. Thanks, I'll tweak the history of my Averial to take into account this info. The Averial on Davania are a strange lot. They see themselves as being above the standard elf. Sort of in the manner regular elves see themselves as compared to humans. After the GRoF and susequent migrations of elves northward, the averial opted to stay put and forge a new kingdom of their own. They settled in the wooded mountains of central Davania. For centuries they doggedly opposed the gradual expansion of the Divergans. Unfortunately, the Averial may rule the skies but they found themselves outclassed on the ground. And as military doctrine prescribes, airpower alone cannot acheive victory. You have to have "grunts" to go in and secure the ground. The Averial thus came under the rule of the Divergans. At first, they acted with animosity towards their new masters. Gradually, they found the Divergan way of life to their liking as it mirrored their own by stressing knowledge and military honor. Since then, the Averial have become a vital aspect of the Havens of Diverga. They have even placed their Immortals into the Divergan Pantheon. The Averial follow their own Immortals. Illsundel is not among them. Averial lore tells of the low opinion that the winged elves have for him. In their eyes he is a fool and a coward for migrating. For that matter, their are no elf Immortals at all. As they see it, why should they follow lesser elves. For the most part Averial immortals are old Immortals that have taken on an averial like appearance. The primary diety is not even an Immortal, but an Old One. There are several newer Immortals that have gained influence. The averial seem to have an immortal for almost everything. The only friction between the winged elves and the Divergans occurred when the orcs were conquered and assimilated into the Haven structure. Though the orcs provide a great quantity of crops and materials, the winged ones see them as lesser than themselves. I'll end it as I am beginning to ramble. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 05:28:30 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Royal Castle In einer eMail vom 29.11.97 00:08:29 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << I think this may be one of the reasons people tend to disregard Ierendi. Sadly, many people in the world don't regard most Carribean/Polynesian lands as " big players" in the workings of Earth. This could hold true for Ierendi with other countries. >> What a pity! The Polynesian and Jerendian are under the best seafarers of their respective worlds. Jam uga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:28:52 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics (LONG) At 17.27 28/11/97 +0100, DM wrote: > > As for these two questions, i hope my previous post detailing the Vyalia, >te Shiye and the Trueflowers have shed some light about the matter. IMHO the >Vyalia have ToL and the Shiye got their one, but discarded it along the way >the way i described (a too cumbersome burden from the religious point of >view).. :) What about the Shiye giving their ToL to the Vyalia? Imagine this: Vyalia are in Thyatis and have no ToL. Mealiden and his followers travel through Raimbow Bridge and land in Thyatis. Shiye are lured away from the main group by Eiryndul, but they still have a ToL and don't know what to do with it. They meet the Vyalia and give them their "useless" ToL in exchange for some sort of help. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:01:23 -0500 From: lordvalen@juno.com (Jakklyph Valen Kroe) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel/Savage Coast Savage Coast is the setting, Red Steel and Savage Baronies are accessories for it. If you don't have the SC stuff, you can get it ONLINE! Lord Valen On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 03:35:02 -0600 "Galwylin" writes: >I picked up a copy of Red Steel and Savage Baronies and was wondering >what >is the difference between this product and the Savage Coast materials. > I >would have gotten both but there wasn't abit of Savage Coast stuff to >be >found at my bookstore. > >Galwylin >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Email: galwylin@airnet.net >Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ > >Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! >http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:05:01 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel/Savage Coast In einer eMail vom 30.11.97 10:38:48 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << I picked up a copy of Red Steel and Savage Baronies and was wondering what is the difference between this product and the Savage Coast materials. I would have gotten both but there wasn't abit of Savage Coast stuff to be found at my bookstore. >> No wonder, as the Savage Coast stuff never came into the bookstores. But there's no difference, it's just another name. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:05:49 -0500 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel/Savage Coast Galwylin wrote: > I picked up a copy of Red Steel and Savage Baronies and was wondering what > is the difference between this product and the Savage Coast materials. I > would have gotten both but there wasn't abit of Savage Coast stuff to be > found at my bookstore. > > Galwylin The Savage Coast material is only available on-line. That's why you won't find it in any stores. The Savage Coast Sourcebook contains all the material from Red Steel and Savage Baronies, plus there are a few small additions that are in neither of the other products. There are also other Savage Coast products available on-line, including Orc's Head supplement and the Savage Coast Monstrous Compendium Appendix. Michael. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:09:11 -0500 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: [Mystara] MML Future It's November 30th. Has a decision been made as to where the list is going to end up? MPGN or Coollist or somewhere else? I personally don't mind where it goes, just so long as it goes somewhere. Michael. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:20:42 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [Mystara] MML Future At 12:09 PM 11/30/97 -0500, Michael wrote: >It's November 30th. Has a decision been made as to where the list is >going to end up? MPGN or Coollist or somewhere else? I personally don't >mind where it goes, just so long as it goes somewhere. Good point! Is it going to disappear overnight, or is Leroy going to put up with the extra cost for one month? (As much as I hate to see Leroy paying extra, I kinda hope its the later!) Leroy, let us know what's up! Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:38:39 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel/Savage Coast Thanks everyone for the information of SC. Now I can rest in peace knowing I'm don't need to start one of my soucebook hunts. Galwylin - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:04:04 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Kladanovic and Tyjaret On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > These two towns are marked on the map in Champions of Mystara, but is Which two are these? Are these the two trading ports along the coast of the Great Waste? Or are they the two towns on the southern continent of Davania? - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #216 ***************************** From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #217 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Monday, December 1 1997 Volume 02 : Number 217 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:14:54 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > It seemed odd to me that Atruaghin Clans didn't do a single thing in the > Great War. After all, there's Atzanteotl, stirring up Huleans, and > Atruaghin (the Immortal) doesn't lift a finger to counteract him. Why > didn't Hule (guided by Atzanteotl/Loki alliance) attack the Clans? For one thing- can you imagine the sheer logistic impossibility of trying to assault a half-mile high plateau with no discernible means of access to the top? While I've postulated that it is entirely possible (likely, even) that there are more routes through the interior of the plateau than those discovered by the Toney House, they still don't make for easy access to a large number of forces. (This is one reason I've always been baffled by the claims in GAZ14 about the Tiger clans often warring with the Bear and Elk clans... Huh?) As for a possible air assault on the top of the plateau- you have to take into consideration that, while Hule has some airships (the Legion of Doom), they don't have massive air transports that could allow them quick access to the plateau surface. Furthermore, the access issue works both ways- not only do the enemies have trouble getting up; but the Atruaghin forces have trouble getting down, and thus don't pose much of a military threat to anyone outside the plateau. The Turtle clans in the lands below, however, are another story. Perhaps the Master decided a straight on attack on Darokin was far quicker and more easy than a roundabout path through the Turtle and Tiger clans south of the Plateau... > Why didn't the Bear Clan aid Darokin (they do have a profitable > relationship)? Again, there is a problem with fielding large amounts of troops to aid their allies, even with the World Elevator working. They probably wouldn't have made a significant difference. > Why didn't the Tiger Clan (worshipping Atzanteotl) help attack Darokin - > they could really create chaos if they attacked Port Tenobar and Athenos, > adding another threat in the south. I think I'm going to involve the Clans > in WotI much more when my campaign reaches that stage... > Thoughts? Probably just ignored by the designer- Allston was trying to compact 10 years worth of war, etc. into one book in one box- not an easy task, and certainly not easy to take into account all the various products out there (I'm not even entirely sure that GAZ14 came out before WotI- if it did, it was only a short time before, and the whole Tiger clan issue may not have been known about by Allston at the time). It wouldn't be too difficult to assume that the Tiger clan may have attacked the Tenobar region during that period- thus diverting more Darokin troops and hastening the fall of Akesoli and Akorros. Also, bear in mind that the Tenobar region is a Borderlands territory, and is thus not under the direct jurisdiction of the Council of Darokin. While they would certainly aid the Tenobarians, the bulk of the defense of that region (IMO) would be from troops under the control of the Magistrate- quite likely backed by a number of mercenaries from outside the region. That has also been my explanation for at least one of the two forts in the region (Marny and Nar)- that one is for troops from Ft. Anselbury (the one near Amsorak Lake?) and one is for the Magistrate's own personal troops. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:21:51 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] E'aar and their origins On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, DM wrote: > The real mystery is Eiryndul. I cannot think about an explanation for > this one, really, so you're free to give me your ideas and to comment > this letter as much as you want. The only one I can think of goes along with a hypothesis I proposed awhile ago- namely, that perhaps the Shiye took a different route out of the Sylvan Realm than did Mealiden's migration. I proposed that they went south along the Arm of the Immortals, and then West to Skothar, eventually ending up in Alphatia, rather than east with the rest of Mealiden's troupe. If this were the case, then it could well explain the E'aar's worship of Eiryndul: Shiye elves fleeing southwards from the Sylvan Realm brought with them tales of the Immortal Eiryndul, and shared them with their cousins the E'aar, before heading westwards. Again, though, I don't know if this might contradict canon or not offhand (in regards to the Shiye migrations). It could also be used to explain why they don't have a ToL (if we assume they don't); otherwise, we could merely assume they took a branch of their own when going a separate way. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:29:45 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ylari Immortals before Al-Kalim On Fri, 28 Nov 1997, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > Somehow I couldn't believe that Ylari didn't worship any Immortals before > Al-Kalim (he's only been around for 100 years). So, I made a short list of > possible Immortals whom the Ylari could have honored. This also means that > some of these Immortals are mightily p***ed off with Al-Kalim for > 'stealing' their worshippers. Here's the list: GAZ2 mentions a couple- the Gnoll, Thanatos, Zephyr, and the Old Man in the Sea. I believe there is one other mentioned as well. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:32:09 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sindhi Immortals On Fri, 28 Nov 1997, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > Thanatos (death, oblivion) - Tanathasa I believe that Thanatos is the Sindhi name for him (as he is called Thanatos in HWA3: Nightstorm, in the land of Shahjapur). Other than that, though, they all look great. I am inclined to include Ganetra, elephant headed patron of Wisdom, as well- both because he is introduced in HWA3 (though not explicitly mentioned as an Immortal) and because it fits with RW Indian mythology. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:37:41 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics: a treatise (LONG) On Fri, 28 Nov 1997, DM wrote: > However, i could think about Treekeepers who sacrified themselves for their > race and clans accepting to become the vehicles of Ilsundal's power. The > ceremony for the creation of the nine seedlings could have in fact required > an extreme act of distress on the part of the Treekeepers (Ilsundal had to > create nine seedlings from the Original Tree, and we know there is a strong > bond between Treekeepers and the ToL), so extreme that they knew they would > have faced death itself. Maybe Ilsundal wanted to reward them for their > loyalty and sacrifice and allowed their spirit to reside inside the new > seedlings, thus making them sentient. In this case they would be slightly > different from the original Tree in the sense that they are still living > avatars of Ilsundal but only because the spirit that inhabits them is that > of a Treekeeper (who in in fact "a living avatar of Ilsundal" according to > the religious beliefs, much like a cleric of Kagyar is a "living avatar" of > the deity -i found this reference in GAZ6). So Ilsundal gives them all the > spells and powers he gave to the Original Tree, but they don't count as > avatars of him. Much less expensive in terms of Power Points. ;) Recall as well that something similar was done by the elves of the Sylvan Realm in CM7. The remaining elves had been turned into trees, or had been absorbed into trees- I guess it was a sort of nationwide Massmorph spell or something... although the Treekeeper didn't, but I believe she died some other way anyhow... > This testifies that the elves that spread in the SC belonged to Ilsundal's > migration (BC 2300, that's "roughly 3,300 years ago") and so they could't > possibly have any ToL since non had been already created. Gotcha. Didn't recall the text exactly, but that does seem to indicate the elves of the SC don't have a ToL, unless one was later brought to them. > It is also possible that Evergrun still exists under the ices of the > southern hemisphere, and in this case whoever might venture there could make > the greatest discovery of them all: an immense and mighty tree completely > preserved under the ice that stands in the middle of those icy and dangerous > mountains.. a tree with magical properties.. Imagine a scenario similar to > HPL's "At the mountains of Madness" but with a mighty ancient relic instead > of Lovecraft's horrors. But if you want to give your players some chill > (besides that of the extreme latitude;)), then the Tree might also be > sentient, a primeval Gakarak with the powers we mentioned which can speak to > the minds of the nearby people and which is gone a little crazy after all > those years (or maybe has been corrupted by a nearby Burrower..). Now it > wants to be awakened and freed from its icy prison, and it will manipulate > whoever stumbles upon it to free itself.. and maybe its Burrower master.. > Brrr, a most definitely twisted version of Eden (read Clive Barker's > "Waveworld" to have a better image of a crazed Guardian Angel and of a > deserted Eden).. It also puts those savage elves that Haldemar encountered into a newer and disturbing light... Heck, maybe there's some of the Nightmare creatures involved (I'm specifically thinking of the Nightmare creatures as proposed by Mystaros). Brrr in more than one sense of the word. :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 17:29:52 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN] The List's Future... Mystaran's... First, to address a post... > Michael meandered fecklessly... > >It's November 30th. Has a decision been made as to where the list is > >going to end up? MPGN or Coollist or somewhere else? I personally don't > >mind where it goes, just so long as it goes somewhere. Hey, it's Thanksgiving weekend! (Well, for some of us, anyway). Relax! > Jenni spewed forth... > Good point! Is it going to disappear overnight, or is Leroy going to put > up with the extra cost for one month? (As much as I hate to see Leroy > paying extra, I kinda hope its the later!) It would seem not all saw my previous admin post, where I said... The list on io.com will not end until I step forward to their admins and tell them to cancel my account, and I will not do this until the list has a new home. If I have to pay one month's worth of list fees, then so be it. After all, we are behind on this due to my leave of absence. I just wanted to let people know this, since a few posts have comments that seem to imply the list will simply end at the first of the month. We're safe for a while, though I would like to get it taken care of before we need to worry. :) > Leroy, let us know what's up! Well, now that TG weekend is over, I will... I have decided to see what I can do to move the list to MPGN, starting with an e-letter to their admin tonight or tomorrow. The majority of memebers who even responded seem to be either in favor of MPGN, or indifferent, as long as the list continues. Once everything is settled I will announce it to the list. If everything goes well everybody will be automatically subscribed to the new list. I don't know who the new admin will be, me or someone else. I guess we will find out. As for the digests, I am sure the MPGN guys will grab these. All of the old Spelljammer digests are there, and they weren't always on MPGN. I will, of course, point this out to them. If I continue on as admin I will keep the MML page (exciting as it is), but it will be on a different server (my current ISP). I will post the URL should it be necessary. Well, that's it for now. More when I get a response from MPGN Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@io.com "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:12:35 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Well I've been running a HW campaign for a while now and I'm Just Mustered up the cash to buy WotI, some of the almanacs and all that fun stuff. So Now I could start to actully make sense of what you all talk about on here. I'm looking for the net Almanacs for 1014 . . . So if anyone could point me in the right direction i would be very happy. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:26:09 -0800 From: David Keyser Subject: Re: [Mystara] Latests List of Dave >I needed a review of those issues >of Dragon and Dungeon and Polyhedron to insert in the updated Product List >and also for my personal use! ;) However, there is one Dungeon issue you've >not listed the number: >>28 Explicit Broken Lands Short encounter to be >> included in HWA1 >>?? Implicit any frontier outpost Murder mystery >>34 Implicit Minrothad/remote island >Could you tell me which number it is? >Thanx again! The frontier outpost is in issue 28. Dave Keyser ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:34:21 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Kladanovic and Tyjaret > > >These two towns are marked on the map in Champions of Mystara, but is >there any info about them? Yes, in CoM it describes them as outposts of Slagovich and Sind, respectively - these cities replace Camel Hump and Mule Beach - detailled in X6 - Quagmire! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:30:34 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim + Maps > >Geoff Gander wrote: >> Look no farther! I am currently drawing an 8-mile hex map of the Denagoth > >Thank you Geoff, and hurry up! ;) my players are going to explore the >plateau! > Jan Deadlines! Deadlines! :-) Seriously, it's almost complete! I'm just going to scan it in at work tomorrow or Tuesday, add the lettering, and send it off to Marco Dalmonte for this year's almanac - definitely it will be in his hands by the end of this week. If you're really stuck, I can arrange to have the map put up on my homepage so you can get what you need, but be warned I don't have any of the accompanying data - that comes with the alamanac. If any of you want to see the map before the almanac comes out in December, email me at: ganderg@tc.gc.ca - this is my work email, and I read it most often (I check it at least four times a day). Anyhow, happy hunting!! :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:32:34 -0800 From: mpalombo@erols.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel/Savage Coast > > The Savage Coast material is only available on-line. That's why you won't find > it in any stores. The Savage Coast Sourcebook contains all the material from Red > Steel and Savage Baronies, plus there are a few small additions that are in > neither of the other products. There are also other Savage Coast products > available on-line, including Orc's Head supplement and the Savage Coast > Monstrous Compendium Appendix. Where is the Savage Coast material located on line? I have the original I purchased years ago. Are the supplements located in the same place? Marc ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:02:46 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [Mystara] [ADMIN] The List's Future... Leroy, just a note. Be sure and inform Sean on the TSR site of the new address since he was kind enough to add a link to the list on their Mystara site. Galwylin - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:07:52 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel/Savage Coast It on the TSR site at http://www.tsr.com/games/adnd/savagecoast/index.html Galwylin - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm - ---------- > From: mpalombo@erols.com > To: mystara-l@lists.io.com > Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel/Savage Coast > Date: Monday, December 01, 1997 12:32 AM > > > > > The Savage Coast material is only available on-line. That's why you won't find > > it in any stores. The Savage Coast Sourcebook contains all the material from Red > > Steel and Savage Baronies, plus there are a few small additions that are in > > neither of the other products. There are also other Savage Coast products > > available on-line, including Orc's Head supplement and the Savage Coast > > Monstrous Compendium Appendix. > Where is the Savage Coast material located on line? I have the original I purchased > years ago. Are the supplements located in the same place? Marc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:14:55 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Sindhi Immortals On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > I believe that Thanatos is the Sindhi name for him (as he is called > Thanatos in HWA3: Nightstorm, in the land of Shahjapur). > Problem is, Thanatos doesn't really sound as a Sanskrit name (if we take that as the basis for Sindhi language). ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:52:39 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Alfheim important people Could someone *please* tell me the names of Alfheim Clanmasters and Treekeepers (as of 1000 AC)? I don't think it would violate copyrights, since it's only a minor quote. I'd also like to know any important guildmasters of Minrothad. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:06:53 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Dwarven dating Did anyone notice the following disrepancy: the Battle of Sardal Pass took place in 492 BC (GAZ6), yet 1000 AC is mentioned as being 1508 SS (Since Sardal)! Seems like the author had some calculation problems. ;) I don't remember if that error was repeated in the PWAs. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:55:06 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Maps of Savage Baronies Hello, Are there any *detailed* maps of the Savage Baronies (by that I mean the "Spanish"-type ones). I have the maps for Herath and thereafter, but not ones before that. Also, after perusing various websites, I have this dreadful suspicion that Dragon #200 contained a lot of stuff for Mystara ;) Am I right, and if yes, are there any plans for putting the stuff online? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:35:29 -0500 (EST) From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hydra BMPs Several of you have emailed me privately requesting the BMP maps for Operation Hydra. To date, I have actually completed several. Unfortunately, I cannot get the BMP File to attach. However, I am still pursuing the matter. So do not think I am ignoring you all. Alex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:43:40 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Ylari Immortals before Al-Kalim Aleksei wrote: <> Yes, it seemed a bit unlikely to me to: it's a good idea. Let's see: PS: using what reference did u make out the names? <> I agree. <> Maybe he was worshipped during the alphatian occupation, but i don't see why he still has followers now: Alphatia is gone and no alphatian outposts remain near Ylaruam, so what's their pourpose? Alphaks has no interests in Ylaruam.. unless maybe he wants to hamper Barimoor.. In this case the only goal of the Followers of Al-Fakish is to overthrow the "evil Barimoor", who's trying to plot the downfall of the Ylari. If presented in this way, the cult has still a significance, otherwise i'd say Alphaks lost interest with it long ago.. <> Hmmm don't know if this can be realistic. I thought Chardastes was popular only in Karameikos and maybe Darokin. Don't think he has acquired followers among the Ylari, mainly because Ylari don't have "healing wise women" as you say. Yet it is true that in RW the arabs invented the medicine science.. The only way i see a minor cult of Chardastes in Ylaruam is via Selenica. Maybe Chardastes was revered there (i remember there's a university of medicine in Selenica) and some ylari merchants imported his cult. I'd say however he is not officially revered, even though some "healers" and "doctors" might raise prayers to him before operating.. <> He's still worshipped as one of the Guardian Immortals of Ylaruam (the cadre of immortals mentioned in GAZ2). I think this clique of Immortals is made up of: Al-Kalim (head) Protius Asterius (who seems to have followers everywhere.. so why is he so low level?) Terra Sinbad The first three are obvious, while the latter two are not, so i'll explain myself. I think the ylari have both a deep respect and a deep love for the desert, which is viewed with mixed feelings. On the one hand, it's treacherous and deadly, a foe that must be always dealt with and cannot be trusted, since it hides countless snares and perils. On the other hand it's a place of peace and astounding beauty, where man is in direct contact with his soul and those who created him: it is a friend for those who know its ways and speak its silent language. For this reason, the Ylari worship the desert, which is embodied by Terra, who strives to protect the land (each type of terrain) and that helps those who try to survive in every condition of living. To the ylari the desert is simply *insert arab name for "The Land"*, one of the many forms of Terra (who i think is the one that gives the dervishes their spells together with Al-Kalim). As for Sinbad, he's simply the Traveler God of the legends: an old Immortal who took the form of a young sailor to teach the ylari the ways and the marvels of the world. He's much older than Al-Kalim and still revered by many adventurers, and represents the will to know and to find the answer to any question, going to great lengths to obtain it. <> Since Ylaruam has no goblinoids troubling it i don't think Halav has made any followers nor ever attempted to. In the old days the ylari had already Ixion who was the patron of just war. <> Nope. There isn't enough forested land in Ylaruam to attract Zirchev. He's patron of forest races, not of nature in general IIRC: that's why i suggested Terra. <> I agree he may have some followers, but it should be an unofficial cult, more likely some artisans that honor him with some rituals to craft good items and make profitable business. Nothing serious: no real clerics. <> Yep, i agree. But i think he should be called with his proper name, Rathanos. <> Again, i agree. He was probably the most revered Immortal before Al-Kalim came out, and was likely in competition with Rathanos. Unfortunately for Rathanos, some of his mages and clerics put it too far and began using violence to convert other to his cause, burning many followers "to let them return to the Great Flame". This way the Magian Fire Worshippers got a negative label and became a secret sect. However, i think Ixion has still got a minor following in Ylaruam, in the emirate of Makistan to be precise. The Makistani are of ethengar descent, so they probably still honor Tubak the Lawgiver and Yamuga (Terra), while Cretia has been left out. <<'Udnan (Odin) - lord of thunder, lightning, and winds. Many djinn honor him. Again, he has a lot of followers, so no problem.>> Not completely sure: Odin's cult is too detached from the ylari customs.. A last question: do you think there are Ylari natives who worship other immortals who don't belong to the Immortal Guardians? And if so, what's the attitude of the religious leaders towards them? IMC one of the clerics is a priestess of Ixion (she's the daughter of the Emir of Makistan and her mother taught her the faith secretly) and was forced to flee to avoid a programmed marriage and to preach her faith freely.. DM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:26:37 -0600 From: ccosman@huntingdon.edu (Cecil Cosman) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI Responding to the message of Sat, 29 Nov 1997 23:46:00 -0500 (EST) from DUFFISGOD@aol.com: > > I think thats because the atraughin clas atre a lot more involved with > the > hollow world. Its my opinion tyhat we would have hard alot more about > them in > about 1015 1016 if w ever got that far when the hollopw world and known > world > became more interactive. Where did you find this info? I mean they have that world elevator thing, but I didn't get that they where active in the hw out of that... they strike me atleast on their little land island that they wanna be left alone.... but I don't actualy remember alll that much about them. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:35:15 -0600 From: ccosman@huntingdon.edu (Cecil Cosman) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: Thyatis, Rome, and Byzantium Responding to the message of Thu, 27 Nov 1997 19:15:33 -0500 from Bob Brunciak : > > RRossmanek@aol.com wrote: > > > I remind you, that the Roman Empire lasted to the 19th century, when > > the last ruler (I don't remember who) gave up his claim to the > > title as Augustus. > > Exactly. Let's say the Holy Roman Empire was the continuation of the > Roman Empire until it's end in 1806 under Francis II. The Holy Roman > Empire, as it was, was a far cry from the ancient days of Imperial Rome, > culturally, religiously, militarily, etc..In my opinion, the only thing > in commom was the name As I understand it the eastern holy roman empire was kept alive by the pope, with the crowning of pipen and charlemagne as holy roman emperors, then it was decided by vote by the princes of germany who would be the holy roman emp. more or less, I think. Anyhow, my point being, if you want to think of Thayatis as similar to the holy roman empire then some religious faction would have to keep the idea of the emperor alive, and that would mean intorducing a monotheistic religion (christianity) and a pope, and for some reason I don't think that would fit too well with Thaytis, that and I d ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:44:12 -0600 From: ccosman@huntingdon.edu (Cecil Cosman) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Royal Castle > Yes, the "resort" stuff seems to take over the Gaz, doesn't it? I'll > have > to re-check this, but I seem to remember that there really wasn't all > that > much "resort" stuff actually there. Unfortunately, the "resort" pamphlet > in the middle of the book really stands out, so I can understand why > people > think that the whole Gaz is just full of the stuff. Maybe we (the MML) > should undertake a minor re-write of the Gaz? Anybody interested? I'd > be > glad to contribute, but I wouldn't want to try to do it all myself. > Let me start out with the fact that I don't have the gaz on Irendi but that hasn't stopped me from using it, since you all have some idea as to what Irendi is already fine, but let me share with ya how I use(d) it. The way I see the place is like _THE_ middle ocean place to go, I mean you can't get from the north to the south without stoppin there, so it's full of port towns, pirates and whatnot, very Caribean. Though the caribean is resortish now it wasn't always. Pirates would make for some interesting port towns and people would wanna go there for the gaming houses and whatnot IMHO. > >> This leaves the Gaz a little light on concrete information, but the > >> overall Polynesian/Caribean culture remains intact. This just > >> means you have to work a little harder as a DM. I like the idea of this nation being a power, they're style of leader election is interesting but I think it helps out with what I did with it, I currently have a pirate king leadin the place cause he was the toughest and the meanest or some such, > Maybe. The Ierendian Navy is described as the best in the Known World, > although probably not the biggest or most powerful. Since they are the > best, not many countries can afford to discount them, even if they have > less ships than some of the bigger guys. However, they haven't played > much > of a role in world politics recently, so the other countries probably > ignore Ierendi more than they should. Who else would rely on the sea as much as they do? I mean they are out in the middle of nowhere. if they couldn't sail it would be all over for them. Anyhow, this is how I use the place, If a rewrite was in store for this Irendi place I'd like to see it get more pirate like. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:58:13 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics (LONG) In einer eMail vom 30.11.97 16:19:17 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << What about the Shiye giving their ToL to the Vyalia? Imagine this: Vyalia are in Thyatis and have no ToL. Mealiden and his followers travel through Raimbow Bridge and land in Thyatis. Shiye are lured away from the main group by Eiryndul, but they still have a ToL and don't know what to do with it. They meet the Vyalia and give them their "useless" ToL in exchange for some sort of help. >> Why? The Vyalias came with Mealiden... if I remember right. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:20:04 -0600 From: ccosman@huntingdon.edu (Cecil Cosman) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics: a treatise (REALLY LONG) > Now, around AC 800 Mealiden and the Treekeepers asked Ilsundal to make > duplicates of the Mother Tree to be brought with them in their long trek > westwards and so Ilsundal CREATED other nine seedlings which would later > grow into mature original ToL (the first example of avatars that grow > older!). We know there are 10 Original ToL in Mystara: one is in the > Sylvan > Realm (sources: CM7, GAZ5), six were in Alfheim and are now in Karameikos > and Wendar, protected by the clans they belong to (sources: GAZ5, WotI), > and > finally one is in Karameikos, the Callarii's ToL (source: GAZ5). > Three are still missing. Where are they? Thought off of the top of my head, Is is possible the Ice Vale elves of the HW have one? I'm not sure when they were put in the HW tho. The other elves in the hw wouldn't have one for sure, but the Ice Vale might... since I don't have the gaz about the elves, someone who has the HW source with the times that the races where transported and the elf GAZ compare dates please and see if it's a possibility. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:36:19 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps of Savage Baronies Here is the list of all maps available to me. What do you need? Ark171.jpg Ark172.jpg Ark174.jpg Ark175.jpg Ark176.jpg Ark177.jpg Ark178.jpg Ark179.jpg Ark183.jpg Ark185.jpg Ark186.jpg Ark188.jpg Ark192.jpg Ark196.jpg Ark200.jpg Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:56:14 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Kladanovic and Tyjaret In einer eMail vom 30.11.97 22:37:10 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << Which two are these? Are these the two trading ports along the coast of the Great Waste? Or are they the two towns on the southern continent of Davania? >> They are on the coast of the Great Waste, where the Serpent Peninsula meets the continent. The region is called the neck. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 13:10:23 -0500 From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps of Savage Baronies Wow! Is there any way we can post these? Copyright is pretty complex but I know I would be interested in electronic copies of these maps. Do you have them on your website? ray JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: > > Here is the list of all maps available to me. What do you need? > > Ark171.jpg > Ark172.jpg > Ark174.jpg > Ark175.jpg > Ark176.jpg > Ark177.jpg > Ark178.jpg > Ark179.jpg > Ark183.jpg > Ark185.jpg > Ark186.jpg > Ark188.jpg > Ark192.jpg > Ark196.jpg > Ark200.jpg > > Jamuga Khan > > "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 21:29:58 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] >I'm looking for the net Almanacs for 1014 . . . So if anyone could point >me in the right direction i would be very happy. > You can find it at: 1) MPGN.com in the /Worlds/Mystara folder 2) http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037 3) My home page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 4) some other web site. Bye. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:15:53 -0500 (EST) From: Dleggend@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps of Savage Baronies In a message dated 97-12-01 12:41:47 EST, you write: << Here is the list of all maps available to me. What do you need? Ark171.jpg Ark172.jpg Ark174.jpg Ark175.jpg Ark176.jpg Ark177.jpg Ark178.jpg Ark179.jpg Ark183.jpg Ark185.jpg Ark186.jpg Ark188.jpg Ark192.jpg Ark196.jpg Ark200.jpg Jamuga Khan >> Khan you are missing map 180 I will be glad to send it if you wish. ~(=Dleggend=> http://members.aol.com/dleggend/index.html ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #217 ***************************** From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #218 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, December 2 1997 Volume 02 : Number 218 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:38:22 -0500 From: lordvalen@juno.com (Jakklyph Valen Kroe) Subject: [Mystara] Princess Ark maps I have managed to compress all the maps listed below into a single .ZIP file. If anyone's interested, I will sent it attached to an email. Just email me direct. Warning! The file size is almost 7MB.. One thing more! If anyone has Ark180.jpg, I'd love to have it.... (and Christmas is right around the corner, hint hint!) I have: Ark***.jpg 171 172 174 175 176 177 178 179 183 185 186 188 192 196 200 (these are repeats of those already listed individually by someone else.) Lord Valen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:51:38 -0500 (EST) From: Dleggend@aol.com Subject: [Mystara] webpage Does anybody know where can I get a free webpage that allows more then 2mb of space? Dleggend http://members.aol.com/dleggend/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:46:48 -0500 (EST) From: DUFFISGOD@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI the immortal atraughan is planning a major plot against atzaneotl. I took him to be the butterfly in the pwa (3??) this is also a point in that gaz 14 was a total setup for T$R's relaes of the hollow world box set and Sons of Azca. which was blatantly advertised in the atraughanclans book. i never read the sons book but i assumed it would tie up the ends of what happened with atraughan . Some thing big is coming with the calns and i dont know what it is. I personally were gong to have the shadow elves and the humanoids band together in oenkmar and drive off the Imperialistic city of the stars shadow elves only to be enslaved by the tiger clan. sort of a condenasation of forces for a plot by atzanteotl. this would involve darokin and an agreement with loki and the others from the brotherhood of shadow. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 23:55:38 +0100 From: Deathwatch Naranek Subject: Re: [Mystara] webpage At 16:51 1-12-97 -0500, you wrote: >Does anybody know where can I get a free webpage that allows more then 2mb of >space? > >Dleggend > >http://members.aol.com/dleggend/index.html go to www.fortunecity.com Bas van Doornspeek - deathw@xs4all.nl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 23:58:19 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [Mystara] 1016 Almanac delayed Hi everybody, due to "lack of free time" on the part of the chief editor the 1016 Net-Almanac won't be ready for the end of December as previously stated. We plan to release the 1016 Almanac on February 1998. PS: we're trying to equal TSR even in publishing delays :-) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:55:26 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ylari Immortals before Al-Kalim On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:43:40 +0100 (MET) DM writes: >Aleksei wrote: >[snip] >Asterius (who seems to have followers everywhere.. so why is he so low >level?) Because, at least according to WotI, an Immortal dosen't gain level through followers, but through adventuring and performing plots and strokes. >[snip] > >DM > > > "Ooops." -PC after damaging the Doomsday device ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 16:26:49 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 DUFFISGOD@aol.com wrote: > the immortal atraughan is planning a major plot against atzaneotl. I took him > to be the butterfly in the pwa (3??) this is also a point in that gaz 14 was > a total setup for T$R's relaes of the hollow world box set and Sons of Azca. > which was blatantly advertised in the atraughanclans book. i never read the > sons book but i assumed it would tie up the ends of what happened with > atraughan . Some thing big is coming with the calns and i dont know what it > is. I personally were gong to have the shadow elves and the humanoids band > together in oenkmar and drive off the Imperialistic city of the stars shadow > elves only to be enslaved by the tiger clan. sort of a condenasation of > forces for a plot by atzanteotl. this would involve darokin and an agreement > with loki and the others from the brotherhood of shadow. Look for big things to happen between the Clans this year, as well as (I'm told) in the Hollow World with the Azcans. I, too, have always felt that Atruaghin's struggle got sort of shunted aside, and it looks like that is going to be dealt with quite a bit, with a lot of repurcussions. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 97 10:27:00 -0500 From: Michael Southon Subject: Re: [Mystara] 1016 Almanac delayed 1016??? The only almanack that I have is 1014. What happened to 1015?? (Of did I just miss it?) Leadryl Dracos ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [Mystara] 1016 Almanac delayed Author: BRIZIO@SMTP (Fabrizio Paoli) {brizio@lunet.it} at !INTERNET Date: 01/12/97 23:58 Hi everybody, due to "lack of free time" on the part of the chief editor the 1016 Net-Almanac won't be ready for the end of December as previously stated. We plan to release the 1016 Almanac on February 1998. PS: we're trying to equal TSR even in publishing delays :-) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:05:01 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [Mystara] webpage Dleg, Check around with your local ISPs. Mine gives me 5 megs with my account. Galwylin - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm - ---------- > From: Dleggend@aol.com > To: mystara-l@lists.io.com > Subject: [Mystara] webpage > Date: Monday, December 01, 1997 3:51 PM > > Does anybody know where can I get a free webpage that allows more then 2mb of > space? > > Dleggend > > http://members.aol.com/dleggend/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 16:20:18 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > It seemed odd to me that Atruaghin Clans didn't do a single thing in the > Great War. After all, there's Atzanteotl, stirring up Huleans, and > Atruaghin (the Immortal) doesn't lift a finger to counteract him. Why > didn't Hule (guided by Atzanteotl/Loki alliance) attack the Clans? I Asked that question myself to Bruce and Co., two years ago. His answer was that the Hulean/Sindhi force are use to fighting on open ground, which explained the attack route to Darokin across the streel plains. He said that weren't use to fighting in the Atruaghin forest. secondly, the Darokinian army told the Bear clan about the invasion and asked the Clan to shut down the elevator, and wait. so the Hulean army would have to waste a lot of resource to invest in invading a nation of 'what they consider' barbarians. One of my characters is Atruaghin-descended, no prejudice there. And who to say in WOTI as Bruce suggested that the Tiger Clan did or did not aid Hule. After all, Hulean spies need a close safe haven. They may have attacked Port Tenobar, and Forts Nar, & Marny, as possibly skirmish in Elstrich. Here's an idea for the Almanac, in the recent PWA's Darokin was being kind and helpful to Aengmor, all the while neglecting Rockhome costing them an ally on the WDL, what if The Chancellor is really in love with the Shadow Princess (hint, ;)> By the way, for WDL, I believe Ierendi would want the join WDL, one, it would allow Ierendei, a chance to host the World Games, It would boost the WDL naval forces against the Pirates of Hule. think about it, Almanac people. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 19:28:27 -0500 From: Aron Reif Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Royal Castle Cecil Cosman wrote: > >Let me start out with the fact that I don't have the gaz on Irendi but that >hasn't stopped me from using it, since you all have some idea as to what >Irendi is already fine, but let me share with ya how I use(d) it. > >The way I see the place is like _THE_ middle ocean place to go, I mean you >can't get from the north to the south without stoppin there, so it's full >of port towns, pirates and whatnot, very Caribean. Though the caribean is >resortish now it wasn't always. Pirates would make for some interesting >port towns and people would wanna go there for the gaming houses and >whatnot IMHO. > Yes, I agree. The coastal islands off Brun (Ierendi and Minrothad) and the islands off Davania (Thanegioth Archipelago) would probably both be much like the Carribean Islands of Earth, but only if there is frequent travel between the two continents. I seem to remember that Minrothad has no formal trade routes with Davania, which would mean that few ships cross the Sea of Dread. Pirates are indeed a big part of Ierendian culture. They virtually own some of the smaller Ierendian islands. >> >> This leaves the Gaz a little light on concrete information, but the >> >> overall Polynesian/Caribean culture remains intact. This just >> >> means you have to work a little harder as a DM. > >I like the idea of this nation being a power, they're style of leader >election is interesting but I think it helps out with what I did with it, I >currently have a pirate king leadin the place cause he was the toughest and >the meanest or some such, > I'm not sure they're a big enough country to be very powerful. They could probably hold their own defending their country, but I don't think they have a big enough military to really become a power. >> Maybe. The Ierendian Navy is described as the best in the Known World, >> although probably not the biggest or most powerful. Since they are the >> best, not many countries can afford to discount them, even if they have >> less ships than some of the bigger guys. However, they haven't played >> much >> of a role in world politics recently, so the other countries probably >> ignore Ierendi more than they should. > >Who else would rely on the sea as much as they do? I mean they are out in >the middle of nowhere. if they couldn't sail it would be all over for them. >Anyhow, this is how I use the place, If a rewrite was in store for this >Irendi place I'd like to see it get more pirate like. > Well, Minrothad is in the same situation. They probably use ships more than Ierendi, since they are THE major marine merchantile power. Minrothad would probably be even more devistated if their shipping were stopped. Aron Reif areif@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:56:17 EST From: Dleggend Subject: Re: [Mystara] Princess Ark maps I have Ark 180 just ask and I shall send Dleggend http://members.aol.com/dleggend/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:02:23 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Princess Ark maps > > I have managed to compress all the maps listed below into a single .ZIP >file. If anyone's interested, I will sent it attached to an email. Just >email me direct. Warning! The file size is almost 7MB.. Hello there, milord :) If you wouldn't mind emailing them to me at my work email address (gander@tc.gc.ca), I'd really appreciate it... Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 22:25:51 -0500 From: Bob Brunciak Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: Thyatis, Rome, and Byzantium Cecil Cosman wrote: >> Exactly. Let's say the Holy Roman Empire was the continuation of >> the Roman Empire until it's end in 1806 under Francis II. The Holy >> Roman Empire, as it was, was a far cry from the ancient days of >> Imperial Rome, culturally, religiously, militarily, etc..In my >> opinion, the only thing in commom was the name > As I understand it the eastern holy roman empire was kept alive by > the pope, with the crowning of pipen and charlemagne as holy roman > emperors, then it was decided by vote by the princes of germany who > would be the holy roman emp. more or less, I think. Anyhow, my point > being, if you want to think of Thayatis as similar to the holy roman > empire then some religious faction would have to keep the idea of > the emperor alive, and that would mean intorducing a monotheistic > religion (christianity) and a pope, and for some reason I don't > think that would fit too well with Thaytis, that and I d I think Cecil, that there was some misunderstanding about what I meant (sorry) but I am in no way wanting to compare Thyatis to the Holy Roman Empire. I was just saying (above) that if you want to say that Rome coninued as the Holy Roman Empire, than what you see is a very different Empire than what you started with and I believe that Thyatis will change to something differnt than what it is but I'm not saying it's going to change into something like the Holy Roman Empire (that's almost immpossible considering the situation). So I'm not saying that I would want them (Thyatis and the H.R.E.) to be the same. What I was trying to state (originally) was that Thyatis the way it is right now is in very deep trouble what with hardships such as rebelling territories, legions who haven't won in decades (generally) etc..and that if things don't change, Thyatis is not going to survive. But that doesn't mean I believe Thyatis will be destroyed, rather, I think that it will go through some massive upheaval which will change Thyatis and yet still keep it the same in many aspects as it is now. I used the example of Byzantium as a way to show how an empire can be transformed from one like Rome to one like Byzantium. In Mystara, I don't believe that Christianity would be a major factor as was the case in the real world, rather, I see some other thing wether it's religious, military, or cultural, changing Thyatis. To further support my case, what's written above is a reply to a message sent by RRossmanek@aol.com (saying that the Roman Empire continued until the 19th century) in which I was saying that Rome (the Empire) and The Holy Roman Empire were almost completely different from one another. The fact is the Roman Empire "fell" in 476 when Odoacer captured Rome and that Byzanitum was a seperate Empire unto itself. Since then, all other Empires such as Charlemagne's and the Holy Roman Empire were never connected to ancient Rome (who'd want to be-they were "pagan brutes") and they only were called Roman because that was the last Empire which covered part of the same land as their empires. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:41:08 -0700 From: "Dennis" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Kladanovic and Tyjaret >>These two towns are marked on the map in Champions of Mystara, but is >>there any info about them? > >Yes, in CoM it describes them as outposts of Slagovich and Sind, >respectively - these cities replace Camel Hump and Mule Beach - detailled >in X6 - Quagmire! Actually, in my copy of X6 they are Sea Camel and Mule Beach. And to answer another question i saw asked, they are on either side of the narrowest (northernmost) part of the Serpent Peninsula. Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 23:32:32 -0500 From: Bob Brunciak Subject: [Mystara] Mystara: AD&D Netlogo Contest I'm sorry this isn't really relevant to Mystara, but does anyone have the address for the AD&D Netlogo Contest? I know the logo was already voted on but I'd like to usew some others that were candidates. Thanks! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:21:19 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ylari Immortals before Al-Kalim On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, DM wrote: > PS: using what reference did u make out the names? > I took RW Arabian gods before Islam and fitted them to Ylaruam. As for the names, I just 'transferred' the normal names into Arabic-type ones. (I prefer for each culture to have distinct names). > < name. He is fairly neutral to Al-Kalim, since he wanted to devote his > attention mostly to Traladara. His name is still sometimes invoked by wise > women who heal illnesses.>> > > Hmmm don't know if this can be realistic. I thought Chardastes was popular > only in Karameikos and maybe Darokin. Don't think he has acquired followers > among the Ylari, mainly because Ylari don't have "healing wise women" as you > say. Yet it is true that in RW the arabs invented the medicine science.. The > only way i see a minor cult of Chardastes in Ylaruam is via Selenica. Maybe > Chardastes was revered there (i remember there's a university of medicine in > Selenica) and some ylari merchants imported his cult. I'd say however he is > not officially revered, even though some "healers" and "doctors" might raise > prayers to him before operating.. > As I said, I fitted the RW gods into Ylari culture... and Arabs had a god of medicine named Balsam. And why couldn't Ylaruam have healing wise women? > Asterius (who seems to have followers everywhere.. so why is he so low level?) > Wasn't he an Eternal? (not sure) > < monstrous enemies. He accepted Al-Kalim's takeover in good spirits, since > he had a large follower base anyway, and wanted to give a novice Immortal a > fair chance.>> > > Since Ylaruam has no goblinoids troubling it i don't think Halav has made > any followers nor ever attempted to. In the old days the ylari had already > Ixion who was the patron of just war. > No goblinoids officially, but the Hardanger kobolds and humanoids from Altan Tepes could have made raids. Additionally, Halav could try to gain followers to oppose Ranivorus in this area. > < neutral to Al-Kalim, since he's still worshipped by many intelligent desert > creatures!>> > > Nope. There isn't enough forested land in Ylaruam to attract Zirchev. He's > patron of forest races, not of nature in general IIRC: that's why i > suggested Terra. > Well, of course it could be questioned whether Ylari would follow a female Immortal... Anyway, Zirchev might become more attracted to Ylaruam if Al-Kalim's Desert Garden dream ever comes to fruition. > < with Al-Kalim, as dwarves and Ylari are allies.>> > > I agree he may have some followers, but it should be an unofficial cult, > more likely some artisans that honor him with some rituals to craft good > items and make profitable business. Nothing serious: no real clerics. > Perhaps his cult was brought by the dwarves. > < Magian Fire Worshippers. Not exactly on the best of terms with Al-Kalim, > but then again, only efreet and Ylari flame wizards ever worshipped him > (and they still do).>> > > Yep, i agree. But i think he should be called with his proper name, Rathanos. > Like I said, I prefer to have authentic cultural names. > <<'Udnan (Odin) - lord of thunder, lightning, and winds. Many djinn honor > him. Again, he has a lot of followers, so no problem.>> > > Not completely sure: Odin's cult is too detached from the ylari customs.. > I meant that he has a lot of followers elsewhere, that's why he had no problem with Al-Kalim taking over Ylaruam. And he could still have followers among the djinn. > A last question: do you think there are Ylari natives who worship other > immortals who don't belong to the Immortal Guardians? And if so, what's the > attitude of the religious leaders towards them? Well, that depends on whether the Preceptors or the Kin are in power. In the former case, the leaders would be unfriendly but won't take any extreme action (unless there's a law against natives worshipping 'false' Immortals). In the latter case, I pity the poor unbelievers... ;) And in any case the holy slayers could give the 'infidels' some interesting time... ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:45:39 +0100 From: Tomas Sanchez Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim important people Hello Aleksei. Here you are as petitioned. Although, there's not a complete list of Treekepers displayed in "Personalities of Alfheim" ClanMasters : - ------------- Clan Chossum : Carlisan Clan Erendyl : Brendian Erendyl Clan Feadiel : Dyradyl Feadiel Clan Grunalf : Durifern Widefarer Clan LongRunner : BeastHunter Clan Mealidil : Mealidan Mealidil Clan Red Arrow : RedSword TrueTalker TreeKeepers : - ------------- Clan Feadiel : Jorodrin Feadiel Clan Long Runner : StarWatcher ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:36:29 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] 1016 Almanac delayed On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > Hi everybody, > due to "lack of free time" on the part of the chief editor the 1016 > Net-Almanac won't be ready for the end of December as previously stated. > We plan to release the 1016 Almanac on February 1998. > > PS: we're trying to equal TSR even in publishing delays :-) > Oh bummer... No matter, my campaign is still in 1001 AC. BTW, you do mean AC1015 Almanac, don't you? It would be odd if you guys just skipped a year ;) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:40:28 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, George Valencia wrote: > the Almanac, in the recent PWA's Darokin was being kind and helpful to > Aengmor, all the while neglecting Rockhome costing them an ally on the > WDL, what if The Chancellor is really in love with the Shadow Princess > (hint, ;)> By the way, for WDL, I believe Ierendi would want the join Shudder... Consider the future head of the First Merchant House of Darokin being a half-shadow-elf... ;) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:50:03 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim important people On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Tomas Sanchez wrote: > ClanMasters : > ------------- > Clan Chossum : Carlisan > Clan Erendyl : Brendian Erendyl > Clan Feadiel : Dyradyl Feadiel > Clan Grunalf : Durifern Widefarer > Clan LongRunner : BeastHunter > Clan Mealidil : Mealidan Mealidil > Clan Red Arrow : RedSword TrueTalker > > TreeKeepers : > ------------- > Clan Feadiel : Jorodrin Feadiel > Clan Long Runner : StarWatcher > Thanks a lot Tomas. But what puzzles me is that DM's Mystaran Mages list contained Ilona de Belcadiz, who was mentioned to be a Clanmistress. What clan exactly is that, DM? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:10:24 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics: a treatise (REALLY LONG) At 11.20 01/12/97 -0600, Cecil wrote: >> We know there are 10 Original ToL in Mystara: one is in the >> Sylvan >> Realm (sources: CM7, GAZ5), six were in Alfheim and are now in Karameikos >> and Wendar, protected by the clans they belong to (sources: GAZ5, WotI), >> and >> finally one is in Karameikos, the Callarii's ToL (source: GAZ5). >> Three are still missing. Where are they? > >Thought off of the top of my head, Is is possible the Ice Vale elves of the >HW have one? I'm not sure when they were put in the HW tho. The other elves >in the hw wouldn't have one for sure, but the Ice Vale might... since I >don't have the gaz about the elves, someone who has the HW source with the >times that the races where transported and the elf GAZ compare dates please >and see if it's a possibility. Nope sorry. The Icevale were part of those elves that settled in Glantri after Ilsundal passed there with his migration. They didn't have a ToL cause Ilsundal hadn't created one yet, and they then moved underground after the Glantrian Catastrophe. DM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:12:11 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps of Savage Baronies At 13.10 01/12/97 -0500, RAY wrote: >Wow! > Is there any way we can post these? Copyright is pretty complex but I >know I would be interested in electronic copies of these maps. Do you >have them on your website? > Actually all the maps listed below can be downloaded for free at TSR site. They come with one of the Savage Coast supplements: i'm sure of this cause i have them too... IIRC... DM >JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >> >> Here is the list of all maps available to me. What do you need? >> >> Ark171.jpg >> Ark172.jpg >> Ark174.jpg >> Ark175.jpg >> Ark176.jpg >> Ark177.jpg >> Ark178.jpg >> Ark179.jpg >> Ark183.jpg >> Ark185.jpg >> Ark186.jpg >> Ark188.jpg >> Ark192.jpg >> Ark196.jpg >> Ark200.jpg >> >> Jamuga Khan >> >> "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:14:35 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics (LONG) At 11.58 01/12/97 EST, Jamuga Khan wrote: >In einer eMail vom 30.11.97 16:19:17 MEZ, schreiben Sie: > >Why? The Vyalias came with Mealiden... if I remember right. > Actually, from the sources i've got the Vyalia's history is a mystery. Nobody knows where they come from or when they settled in Thyatis, so we can only speculate. Of course valuable info could be in B10, since it also deals with Vyalia of Karameikos... unfortunately i don't have it so i can't tell it for sure. DM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:23:53 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim important people At 12.50 02/12/97 +0200, Aleksei wrote: >Thanks a lot Tomas. But what puzzles me is that DM's Mystaran Mages list >contained Ilona de Belcadiz, who was mentioned to be a Clanmistress. What >clan exactly is that, DM? ILona de Belcadiz, known as Coolhands, is wife of Beasthunter of clan Longrunners of Alfheim. DM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:44:23 -0500 (EST) From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re:[Mystara] Operation Hydra Day 11 Operation Hydra Day 11 Force A- Adm. Helena stays with the current strategy and keeps the land forces at their beachhead. They spend the day beefing up their defenseworks. The land force commander, Gen. Xerathas, sends scouts out to patrol the area. In particular, he wants a good look at Minrothad City. His scouts return later in the day and offer their reports. There are no Minrothad Forces near the beach head. Some signs of troops camps and movement were found near the Thadder capital, but all indications show that the troops have moved toward the city. The city of Minrothad seems to be readying itself for a seige. This displeases both Adm. Helena and Gen. Xerathas, as they had hoped to whittle down the defenders out in the open instead of assaulting them at the walls. Adm. Helena and Gen. Xerathas both decide to wait one more day before marching on to the city. Perhaps they may still be able to draw them out. Force B- Gen. di Cicero decides to move onto the objective, Harbortown. While the Cohorts assemble and make ready to march, scouts are sent ahead to plot a easy rout to Harbortown. This done, Force B begins its march. Thier rout will take them inland where they will strike from the landside. As such, the march will take longer than a direct rout. The Fleet Forces under Adm. Serpico are to sail onto Harbortown. They will bombard the city from the sea as well as blockade it. Force C- The assault on Malfton begins. For the most part, the Thyatians concentrate on bombarding the defenses with their seige weapons. The ballistae on shore and aboard the galleys steadily break holes in the neglected wooden palisade. Also, the few artillery peices the Hin have are engaged and destroyed. The Thyatian crossbowmen move into range of the walls and begin launching their bolts upon the defenders at the walls. Several small probing troop assaults are staged, mainly to test the defenses. For now, the Thyatians are content to wear down the Hin from afar before committing to hand to hand combat. As night falls, the bombardment continues with troops being rotated frequently to allow them rest. Gen. Nikkos wants his to keep the defenders on edge, but not exhaust his own men. The land forces use the cover of night to move their ballistae closer to the walls of Malfton. The day's action has opened several gaps in the walls. Gen. Nikkos plans on assaulting these gaps in the morning. Force D- Recently appointed Adm. Merrik set forth the reorganized Force C. He sees the wounded as a priority. Fearing most would do poorly on the voyage to Thyatis, he opts to set sail for Open Island. He is also aware that his ships are at capacity with the prisoners, soldiers, and war prizes. He has his doubts of a prolonged voyage back to Thyatis. He feels that Force D should regroup at Open Island and assemble a more effecient convoy to ferry the war spoils and wounded back to Thyatis. This plan is endorsed by Gen Delagro and passed on to Adm. Helena for approval. She quickly gives her approval and sends the orders to Adm. Pentalon. "Booty Convoy" commanded by Adm. Pentalon is already enrout to Thyatis City but due to being heavily laden with looted goods, hasn't made much progress. This is amplified by Adm. Pentalon's cautious nature of sailing around the eastern side of Fire Island to avoid any Thadder naval forces that might be abroad. The advantage of this is that his convoy is fairly close to Open Island. Adm. Pentalon receives orders to sail onto Malfton to assemble a more suitable escort. Adm. Pentalon agrees and set sail immediately for Open Island. Adm. Merrik leads his ships out of Cove Harbor and away from Fire Island. The ships are cramped but the actual trip is expected to be rather brief. By nightfall, Thyatian ships of Force C report sighting both Adm. Pentalon's ships and Adm. Merrik's ships. Also, the Wizards of Sclaras arrive and join up with Force A, Force B, and Force C. The elements of Retebius Air Fleet mount their beasts and make way back to Crossbones. The Wizards are rumored to have animated some of the Privateer dead to "greet" any Thadders that decide to return to their former homes. Minrothad prepares for the expected assault. HG troops are placed along the walls to suppliment the garrison. No Minrothad troops will leave the city to engage the Thyatians unless ordered from Gapton. Likewise, Harbortown prepares for the coming assault. The loss of Anrod Miller's troops offer proof of the need to utilize the walls of the city. The people of Harbortown erect crude barricades among the alleyways of the harbor facilities. Malfton- The Hin of Kimber Nimblefingers crouch behind their crumbling walls, enduring the Thyatian bombardment. The Hin artillerists have failed in engaging and nullifying the Thyatian ballistae. The Hin artillery lay in ruins. Their own archers and slingers do return fire. These missile counterattacks cause minimal damage. The Thyatians are to well placed and mostly out of range. The Thyatians galleys do come within range, but what can slingstones do against their thick hulls. For the most part, the counterfire is to releive tension. Most of the Hin taunt at the Thyatians to begin their assault. Anything is better than this constant bombardment. The one saving grace is that the fire attacks are minimal. Though they wreak havoc on the rotting palisades and blockhouses, the damage to the town's interior is minor due to the sodden construction of the Hin homes. Warheart Cleaver dispatches vessels to scout the waters around North Island. The Mercenary GM wants to make sure no Thyatian assault force is poised off the island preparing to land. This is insure Gapton, as well as himself, that he can commit his forces without fear of leaving his own home port unprotected. His first priority is Malfton, so he begins preparations for a relief force. Warheart contacts the dwarves at Fortress Island. Once again, he asks if they need forces sent. Once again, he is told that the dwarves are confident of their defenses. Also, no sightings of Thyatian forces in the area bolster the Mercenary Guild Master. Warheart realizes that the strategy of dividing the HG defenders also applies to Minrothad Fleets. As is, the Fleets are spread out and greatly outnumbered when they do engage the Thyatians. He debates on whether to recall his remaining naval forces to join and bolster their numbers into a force sizable to meet the Thyatians. He sends orders to the his vessels in the Fortress Island area to make sail for Gapton, North Island. He also sends a simular message to the naval commanders at Minrothad City and Harbortown. Cleaver informs Oran Meditor of this move. At first, the Ruling GuildMaster disagrees, but Cleaver manages to convince him. He tells Meditor that if they wait, the Thyatians will blockade the capital making the ships useless. Combined with his own vessels, they could be put to better use. Under the cover of darkness, the Minrothad ships creep out of their harbors. Alfeisle is given different orders. The ships around the elves' island will remain at their station. Cleaver still suspects an assault on them. As such, he wants to be prepared. He does inform them of the Thyatian tactic of drawing the defenders out. He suggests that troops be placed along the coast in force and strike at the landing Thyatians. In particular, he points at the effect that the elven (Verdun) bowmen would have against a landing force. He does tell them to not try to sustain an ongoing battle, but to thwart the landings for as long as possible before the Thyatians can amass enough troops to counterattack. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:33:20 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics: a treatise (REALLY LONG) In einer eMail vom 01.12.97 18:23:34 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << Thought off of the top of my head, Is is possible the Ice Vale elves of the HW have one? I'm not sure when they were put in the HW tho. The other elves in the hw wouldn't have one for sure, but the Ice Vale might... since I don't have the gaz about the elves, someone who has the HW source with the times that the races where transported and the elf GAZ compare dates please and see if it's a possibility. >> NO !! Jamuga Khan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:37:51 -0500 (EST) From: Dleggend@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] webpage Thanx Bas van Doornspeek I will soon be putting all the ark maps in my page. Dleggend http://members.aol.com/dleggend/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 20:12:06 +0100 From: Tomas Sanchez Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim important people : CoolHands Aleksei wrote: >Thanks a lot Tomas. But what puzzles me is that DM's Mystaran Mages >list contained Ilona de Belcadiz, who was mentioned to be a >Clanmistress. What clan exactly is that, DM? DM wrote: > ILona de Belcadiz, known as Coolhands, is wife of Beasthunter of clan > Longrunners of Alfheim. *Nods* The Gazetteer explains she came to Alfheim to study the Trees of Life and was later adopted by the Long Runner's Clan after getting engaged with BeastHunter. Her proficiency with healing magics made her a special member of the clan. It doesn't states anywhere she is a TreeKeeper. Although, she could be suposed to be after it after reading her avalaible spells. Which include spells reserved for those devoted to the so called "Way of the Tree". Maybe, we should examine carefully the spellbooks of the people the Gaz detailed in order to search for those dedicated to the Tree of Life. I hope your doubts were dissipated. Tomás Sánchez Tejero deckard@encomix.es ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 20:23:03 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] 1016 Almanac delayed At 12.36 02/12/97 +0200, you wrote: >Oh bummer... No matter, my campaign is still in 1001 AC. BTW, you do mean >AC1015 Almanac, don't you? It would be odd if you guys just skipped a year >;) Yes. Sorry everybody. Mmmhhh... I'm getting old... :) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #218 ***************************** From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #219 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, December 4 1997 Volume 02 : Number 219 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 20:38:05 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [Mystara] Future Scenarios (was: Atruaghin in WotI) At 16.20 01/12/97 PST, George Valencia wrote: >Here's an idea for >the Almanac, in the recent PWA's Darokin was being kind and helpful to >Aengmor, all the while neglecting Rockhome costing them an ally on the >WDL, what if The Chancellor is really in love with the Shadow Princess >(hint, ;) I think that Darokin was kind to the Shadow Elves because: 1) They feared such an aggressive neighbor right inside their territtory 2) Darokinian merchants saw Aengmor (the country) as a possible market. With the forest in such a bad mood, Rafielton has no resources, so it should either ask City of the Stars for help or buy goods from Darokin... Anyway the Shadow Princess will really fall in love with someone, but you'll probably see it in 1016 Almanac and here I really mean 1016, not 1015! > By the way, for WDL, I believe Ierendi would want the join >WDL, one, it would allow Ierendei, a chance to host the World Games, It >would boost the WDL naval forces against the Pirates of Hule. think >about it, Almanac people. I think Hulean Pirates already have their problems (isn't it Andrew?). Moreover Ierendi's navy is mainly a defensive one, I don't Honor Island mages will agree to use their powerful ships outside Ierendi's waters, and without those ships their naval force is not better than Karameikos one IMO. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 16:33:38 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Future Scenarios (was: Atruaghin in WotI) On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > I think Hulean Pirates already have their problems (isn't it Andrew?). Yeah- we've determined there's a reason they've been quiet for the past couple of years... muahahahahaaaa!! > Moreover Ierendi's navy is mainly a defensive one, I don't Honor Island > mages will agree to use their powerful ships outside Ierendi's waters, and > without those ships their naval force is not better than Karameikos one IMO. Definitely a defensive force, which certainly makes them well qualified to join the WDL. It's a thought I've toyed with myself, but since others have also proposed it, I think we might well take it into consideration. I've already got a few plans to expand the WDL, as it is. :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:18:43 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim important people : CoolHands > DM wrote: > > ILona de Belcadiz, known as Coolhands, is wife of Beasthunter of clan > > Longrunners of Alfheim. > What are her relations with the rest of Belcadiz Clan (in Glantri)? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 09:45:47 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re[2]: [Mystara] Alfheim important people I've posted the Clanmasters of Alfheim as well as the Guildmasters of Minrothad to my web page http://people.delphi.com/ndaskal/dnd/reference.html Checking GAZ5 I find Carlisan (the Shadowelf Spy) as Counselor of Chossum, with Lynnwyl being the Clanmaster. >Hello Aleksei. Here you are as petitioned. Although, there's not a >complete list of Treekepers displayed in "Personalities of Alfheim" > >ClanMasters : >------------- >Clan Chossum : Carlisan >Clan Erendyl : Brendian Erendyl >Clan Feadiel : Dyradyl Feadiel >Clan Grunalf : Durifern Widefarer >Clan LongRunner : BeastHunter >Clan Mealidil : Mealidan Mealidil >Clan Red Arrow : RedSword TrueTalker > >TreeKeepers : >------------- >Clan Feadiel : Jorodrin Feadiel >Clan Long Runner : StarWatcher > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:23:29 -0600 From: ccosman@huntingdon.edu (Cecil Cosman) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics: a treatise (REALLY LONG) Responding to the message of Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:10:24 +0100 (MET) from DM : > > At 11.20 01/12/97 -0600, Cecil wrote: > >> We know there are 10 Original ToL in Mystara: one is in the > >> Sylvan > >> Realm (sources: CM7, GAZ5), six were in Alfheim and are now in > > Karameikos > >> and Wendar, protected by the clans they belong to (sources: GAZ5, > > WotI), > >> and > >> finally one is in Karameikos, the Callarii's ToL (source: GAZ5). > >> Three are still missing. Where are they? > > > >Thought off of the top of my head, Is is possible the Ice Vale elves of > the > >HW have one? I'm not sure when they were put in the HW tho. The other > elves > >in the hw wouldn't have one for sure, but the Ice Vale might... since I > >don't have the gaz about the elves, someone who has the HW source with > the > >times that the races where transported and the elf GAZ compare dates > please > >and see if it's a possibility. > > Nope sorry. The Icevale were part of those elves that settled in Glantri > after Ilsundal passed there with his migration. They didn't have a ToL > cause > Ilsundal hadn't created one yet, and they then moved underground after > the > Glantrian Catastrophe. > > DM > It was just an idea, I shoulda checked my stuff before hand ;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:23:06 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps of Savage Baronies <> Indeed? I thought there were only six of them. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:23:00 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps of Savage Baronies In einer eMail vom 01.12.97 19:18:27 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << Wow! Is there any way we can post these? Copyright is pretty complex but I know I would be interested in electronic copies of these maps. Do you have them on your website? ray >> I'm sorry. The Mighty Khan is very busy right now and haven't found the time to create his own homepage. Some of these maps can be found on the Savage Coast homepage and MPGN, though. Ethenor Orkhan, acting on behalf of Jamuga Khan "Don't disturb the Mighty Khan, or your life will be forfeited." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:23:06 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Demihuman Relics (LONG) In einer eMail vom 02.12.97 14:36:14 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << Actually, from the sources i've got the Vyalia's history is a mystery. Nobody knows where they come from or when they settled in Thyatis, so we can only speculate. Of course valuable info could be in B10, since it also deals with Vyalia of Karameikos... unfortunately i don't have it so i can't tell it for sure. >> A good module, but nothing really interesting about the Vyalias except their symbol, an oak tree set with stars. I'm only wondering, why there's an Ethengarian horse warrior on the cover, shooting at a following wolf rider. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:23:02 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Royal Castle In einer eMail vom 02.12.97 10:30:22 MEZ, schreiben Sie: < Yes, I agree. The coastal islands off Brun (Ierendi and Minrothad) and the islands off Davania (Thanegioth Archipelago) would probably both be much like the Carribean Islands of Earth, but only if there is frequent travel between the two continents. I seem to remember that Minrothad has no formal trade routes with Davania, which would mean that few ships cross the Sea of Dread. Pirates are indeed a big part of Ierendian culture. They virtually own some of the smaller Ierendian islands. I'm not sure they're a big enough country to be very powerful. They could probably hold their own defending their country, but I don't think they have a big enough military to really become a power. Well, Minrothad is in the same situation. They probably use ships more than Ierendi, since they are THE major marine merchantile power. Minrothad would probably be even more devistated if their shipping were stopped. >> Hm, how much travel is be conducted by Thyatis? And the traders of Kastelios are starting to travel northward. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:27:56 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps of Savage Baronies <> Indeed? I thought there were only six of them. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:20:58 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: [Mystara] Tol of Ilsundal The answer, in my mind to where are the missing three tribes with the tree of life, is in my mind the Vyalia of Thyatis, The Erewan Clan(Glantri), and possibly the Norwolf Elves. The box set Glantri: KOM might have mentioned a ToL in the possession of Caroltina home territory. Belcadiz are to civilized and forgot about natural. The Eldar of Windreach might be in possession of such an artifact. And I do beieve that the Vyalia elves were part of Ilsundal Migration, (until i get to the Alfheim Gazeeteer, at a game shop, ONLY I KNOW.) By the way, the 1014 net-almanac was good, but I Believe the third world should have taken place in Parsa, Makistan, the natives there are as xenophobic, as the other emirates. The First world games in Darokin took place in Selenica, which was not the capital of that country, but was friendly to all tourists. Aleksei, The child may be half-elf of Shadow Elf origin, but both sides acquire a lot of territory just by merging their two lands. Secondly, the last i read PWA 1012, Mauntea and Tenadelyo are single, if you read Sons of Dawn, she must have met him, cause in the scene the Wizard that was going to cause a war between Aengmor and Darokin, made himself look like Mauntea. The Last time, I check the Immortal roster, Yav was listed as the only Half-elf to attain immortality, (read Champions of Mystara). Aleksei asked Who Ilona de Belcadiz was in charge of what clan, Translated from Spanish, her name means Ilona 'of' Belcadiz. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:25:26 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: [Mystara] re: [mystara] Demihuman relics: a treatise Icevale elves would never have the Tol, just like the Jen, don't have their sacred mound which suppose to be filled with treasure. The only problem is that the Jen's real burial mound on the surface on Mystara, not in the HW, so the same rules apply to Icevale(read PWA II) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:58:51 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Mystara] Alfheim important people At 09.45 03/12/97 EST, Neal Daskal wrote: >Checking GAZ5 I find Carlisan (the Shadowelf Spy) as Counselor >of Chossum, with Lynnwyl being the Clanmaster. True. Moreover in the "Timeline of Alfheim Invasion", that you can find at my Homepage and Herve's one, we wrote that Lynnwyl dies and Carlisan takes his place as Clanmaster. Obviously this is not canon, anyway you may be interested. Bye. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 15:46:18 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [Mystara] Mystara Civilization Scenarios? Anyone out there get Civ II: Fantasy Empires (or whatever it's called) yet? (I'm hoping to get it this X-Mas myself.) I was curious how the new units and things might lend themselves to creating a Mystara Civilization scenario. I also understand there is a complete editor that you can custom make your own scenarios, etc. Imagine making the Great School of Magic Wonder of the World? Or how about the Nahmeh/Dream of the Desert Garden Wonder (acts like JS Bach's Cathedral), or the Thyatian Colosseum (acts like Shakespeare's Theatre... or maybe a Police Station...) I've run a Darokin scenario on Civilization II- where my empire was the Republic of Darokin, and I focused on developing diplomacy and trade over conquest; it's not quite the same, but... Also, I'm currently using the map editor to recreate the maps of the Known World from the Gazetteers. It's working pretty well so far. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 02:00:35 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: [Mystara] Joshuan Gillidox I finally got a copy of Joshuan's Almanac. Print's a little bigger making less information than previous almanacs (greedy halfling sensibilities, I suppose) but that's just one of those things. But about this Hollow World hoax... Claransa would never lie about such a thing (I should know, I've got more than her book to back me up). Is this the first stage of a plot by Arik to escape and sieze control of the Hollow World from the other Immortals for his own evil designs? Or, even worse, have the Immortals decided to destroy the Hollow World as if it never existed? Enquiring minds want to know! Btw, this was written for fun since I don't really know Claransa but Master Terari says she's a nice lady and would never knowingly lie ;> - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 02:12:03 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: [Mystara] Netlogo Reminder :::a magical mouth appears in your computer screen not unlike a lovely lady's from a Dentyne commercial (complete with fresh breath, no less!)::: "Sorry for the interruption but the most mighty mage, Galwylin, seeks to remind ye that the deadline for entry in the netlogo contest is coming soon. Kaldmont the.. er, December the 31st is the last day for entry. So, get those entries in!" :::as the magic mouth disappears, you hear in the background::: "..yes, yes... I said 'most mighty mage, Galwylin' and no, I don't think they were impressed..." "..fine, next time do it yeself..." - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 10:40:29 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps of Savage Baronies At 12.23 03/12/97 -0500, Jamuga Khan wrote: >< They come with one of the Savage Coast supplements: i'm sure of this cause i > have them too... IIRC... > > DM >> > >Indeed? I thought there were only six of them. You're right. I checked it last night to be sure and there were only some of them (those detailing the westernmost part of Savage Coast -Herath, Bayou, Orc's Head and Bellayne IIRC). IF you don't mind Jamuga (or the one who had the files, i don't remember who), when you've time could you send me the missing ones you have? thanx a lot DM "The only good orc is a dead orc" Ancient saying of the Old World ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:16:44 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim important people : CoolHands At 12.18 03/12/97 +0200, Aleksei wrote: >> DM wrote: >> > ILona de Belcadiz, known as Coolhands, is wife of Beasthunter of clan >> > Longrunners of Alfheim. >> >What are her relations with the rest of Belcadiz Clan (in Glantri)? IIRC the clan has closed the contacts with her when she married Beasthunter and was adopted by his clan. Also, nowhere it's stated that she's a Treekeeper, but i believe to remember she's described as an Elf Mage like her husband, following the Way of the Book. DM "The only good human is the roasted one" Ancient saying of the dragons of Mystara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:08:55 +0100 From: Tomas Sanchez Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim important people Neal Daskal wrote: > I've posted the Clanmasters of Alfheim as well as the Guildmasters > of Minrothad to my web page > http://people.delphi.com/ndaskal/dnd/reference.html Good. I've just added your web page to my bookmark's file. > Checking GAZ5 I find Carlisan (the Shadowelf Spy) as Counselor > of Chossum, with Lynnwyl being the Clanmaster. *Blush* You're right. I don't know how could i made such assumption. It was not my intention to support the Shadow Elves plot even further. Tomás Sámchez Tejero deckard@encomix.es ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:23:23 +0100 From: Tomas Sanchez Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim important people Neal Daskal wrote: >Checking GAZ5 I find Carlisan (the Shadowelf Spy) as Counselor >of Chossum, with Lynnwyl being the Clanmaster. Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > True. Moreover in the "Timeline of Alfheim Invasion", that you can > find at my Homepage and Herve's one, we wrote that Lynnwyl dies and > Carlisan takes his place as Clanmaster. Thanks for your help. Although, i'm beginning to feel a little dizzy. Now it seems i was right even unknowingly. Tomás Sánchez Tejero deckard@encomix.es ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 12:10:28 +0100 From: Tomas Sanchez Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim important people : CoolHands DM wrote: > ILona de Belcadiz, known as Coolhands, is wife of Beasthunter of clan > Longrunners of Alfheim. Aleksei wrote: > What are her relations with the rest of Belcadiz Clan (in Glantri)? DM wrote: > IIRC the clan has closed the contacts with her when she married > Beasthunter and was adopted by his clan. Also, nowhere it's stated > that she's a Treekeeper, but i believe to remember she's described > as an Elf Mage like her husband, following the Way of the Book. You're wrong. As i said in a previous message last tuesday, after a close inspection of her avalaible spells you'll find she can cast the following : I - Ceremony (T) VI - Cure Serious Wounds (T) VII - Dispel Evil (T) IX - Heal (T) (T) These spells are only available to elves embarking on the Way of the Tree. Following that path seems also coherent with the practice of those healing magics which the Gazetteer refers to. Tomás Sánchez Tejero deckard@encomix.es ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:20:57 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps of Savage Baronies On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: > < They come with one of the Savage Coast supplements: i'm sure of this cause i > have them too... IIRC... > > DM >> > > Indeed? I thought there were only six of them. > I checked yesterday. TSR website only has maps from 183 onward (Herath onward), included with Orc's Head Accessory. The Savage Coast Campaign Book ZIP-file only has a (basically worthless) map of the whole savage coast showing only the coastline and the borders. I'm not sure about MPGN, though. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:28:15 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Alfheim invasion On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > True. Moreover in the "Timeline of Alfheim Invasion", that you can find at > my Homepage and Herve's one, we wrote that Lynnwyl dies and Carlisan takes > his place as Clanmaster. > Obviously this is not canon, anyway you may be interested. > Bye. > BTW, I was interested to know why did you think Atzanteotl would suggest alliance to Rafiel? Weren't they bitter enemies? And I thought that every Immortal's sphere is known to other Immortals (since they can ascertain that from the home plane). Why would Atzanteotl think Rafiel is an Entropic? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:32:39 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Civilization Scenarios? On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > I've run a Darokin scenario on Civilization II- where my empire was the > Republic of Darokin, and I focused on developing diplomacy and trade over > conquest; it's not quite the same, but... > I've tried to make a WotI scenario for CIV2, but I sort of left it since I didn't have enough time to make all the units and advances. > Also, I'm currently using the map editor to recreate the maps of the > Known World from the Gazetteers. It's working pretty well so far. > I made a map for the aforementioned scenario, covering ground from Sind to SW Alphatia. I used one square=one 24 mile hex, and it looks more or less fine. I did tweak the map a bit to include Thanegia Island (Yavdlom), so it's not quite officially correct, but it's still fun. I can send this to anyone who wants it. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 13:30:09 +0100 From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Fonts Err.. i was wondering how the fonts (Feinen) situation was... Didn't one of you guys outta there said he was about purchasing the fonts from the pages i detected... or having a friend make it for free... I'd really like to know what the situation is up to now... DM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:54:38 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] RPG Survey Hello, I'm conducting a survey concerning preferences in RPG games. If you have the time, please reply. The example answers are guidelines - you can have a different answer. PLEASE direct all replies to me PRIVATELY, unless you think your reply would be of interest to the whole list. Thank you. The Survey Core Rules Do you prefer to have * a lot of rules covering most situations * a lot of rules as above, but many of them optional * few rules covering common situations, with DM making up the rest Do you like * strictly defined classes/archetypes (as in AD&D) * loosely defined classes which you can customize to a high degree * no classes at all, building a character from skills What is your preferred magic system * strictly defined, with specific number of spells per day and specific memorized spells * freeform, with possibility of casting any spell at any time if mana or spell limit is not exceeded * moderately defined, something between the two above Do you think that * skills should be gained from rising in level/gaining XP (like AD&D) * levels/XP should be gained from raising/using skills * no levels/XP are needed at all - just a system for raising skills How should a character's personality be defined? * limited choice of specific alignments * assigning strength values to personality traits * no formal definition - personality is how the character is played Accessories What kind of accessories do you prefer (OK to answer several) * detailing campaign world areas * presenting additional optional rules * introducing things that could be used with core rules, like new spells, skills, equipment, or classes/kits Do you want for the accessories to * be highly detailed, covering everything possible on the topic they are addressing (e.g., a city description takes five pages) * contain little detail so that the DM has to make up the rest (a city description takes one paragraph) Should accessories contain * specific game information on the relevant topic ("Althon is a 18th-level LN Mage with 38 HP, and his stats are ...") * little definite information but mostly 'hearsay' ("Althon is a powerful, highly intelligent archmage") Do you like fluff in accessories (like many TSR ones) * yes, it is fun to read * yes, if it is useful to the topic (like giving a 'native' point of view) * no, it only takes up valuable space What would you pay (US$) for a good softcover accessory book, supposing it meets your criteria above? Campaign worlds Do you like worlds which have * cultures much like the real-world ones (Ars Magica's Mythic Europe) * cultures borrowing some elements from real-world ones (Mystara) * completely fictional cultures (Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun) Do you think it's OK to model major campaign NPCs on real historical figures? Do you like campaigns to be large and expansive (Forgotten Realms), or confined to a small area of the world (Dark Sun)? Do you like worlds to be standard spherical planets, or all kinds of weird shapes? Do you want * the whole world to be highly detailed (officially that is) * main parts of the world to be detailed, but the rest untouched * just the world map, little or no detail What would you pay (US$) for a good campaign setting boxed set (suppose it meets your criteria above)? PS. Sorry for crossposting, but I need as many answers as I can get. PPS. If you've already answered this in another list, there's no need to answer again. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 07:21:38 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Fonts At 01:30 PM 12/4/97 +0100, DM wrote: > Err.. i was wondering how the fonts (Feinen) situation was... Didn't one >of you guys outta there said he was about purchasing the fonts from the >pages i detected... or having a friend make it for free... I'd really like >to know what the situation is up to now... Well, I sent the company mail asking about the font but I have never received a response :-( As for making a copy of the font, that wasn't me, so I don't know what's up with that. Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 09:26:15 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Fonts I sent an inquiry about the Feinen font but never got a response about it ;/ - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:08:09 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps of Savage Baronies In einer eMail vom 02.12.97 18:30:12 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << Khan you are missing map 180 I will be glad to send it if you wish. ~(=Dleggend=> >> Oh, I have Ark180. But it makes really trouble. Only one of four programs is able to open it. Jamuga Khan (Obviously this stupid map never heard anything about the might of Jamug Khan.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:25:52 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] RPG Survey >The Survey > >Core Rules > >Do you prefer to have > * a lot of rules covering most situations > * a lot of rules as above, but many of them optional > * few rules covering common situations, with DM making up the rest the second option: many rules but most of them optional (i'd say 30-40% optional) >Do you like > * strictly defined classes/archetypes (as in AD&D) > * loosely defined classes which you can customize to a high degree > * no classes at all, building a character from skills option two is the best one, although the third hypothesis is fascinating but not AD&Dish (more like CoC). >What is your preferred magic system > * strictly defined, with specific number of spells per day and specific > memorized spells > * freeform, with possibility of casting any spell at any time if mana > or spell limit is not exceeded > * moderately defined, something between the two above i have used both the first two systems and i'd say at high levels the first one is the best option, while at low-middle levels the second one is optimal. >Do you think that > * skills should be gained from rising in level/gaining XP (like AD&D) > * levels/XP should be gained from raising/using skills > * no levels/XP are needed at all - just a system for raising skills Third option would be optimal. However, i don't see anything wrong in both the first two as long as they're playable and useful to the PC >How should a character's personality be defined? > * limited choice of specific alignments > * assigning strength values to personality traits > * no formal definition - personality is how the character is played second option most definitely. This is what we're doing in our Alignment Project (which i hope should be finished by the end of the year..) >Accessories > >What kind of accessories do you prefer (OK to answer several) > * detailing campaign world areas > * presenting additional optional rules > * introducing things that could be used with core rules, like new > spells, skills, equipment, or classes/kits First one is what i like best. I also like the third one, while new rules are not always up to my expectations. >Do you want for the accessories to > * be highly detailed, covering everything possible on the topic they > are addressing (e.g., a city description takes five pages) > * contain little detail so that the DM has to make up the rest > (a city description takes one paragraph) Uhmm... soemwhere in the middle. I mean, if the module/supplement mentions a place or a character, i'd like it/him to be at least briefly described (say about 10 lines if it's not important and up to pages if it's a major feature/character). Don't like the supplements that give too much "creative work" to the DM: they be no supplements but generic "inspiration material" instead, which is not what i wanted to purchase. >Should accessories contain > * specific game information on the relevant topic ("Althon is a > 18th-level LN Mage with 38 HP, and his stats are ...") > * little definite information but mostly 'hearsay' ("Althon is a > powerful, highly intelligent archmage") First one definitely, with personality traits too. >Do you like fluff in accessories (like many TSR ones) > * yes, it is fun to read > * yes, if it is useful to the topic (like giving a 'native' point of > view) > * no, it only takes up valuable space yes it's useful to understand the native point of view and explain it to the players >What would you pay (US$) for a good softcover accessory book, supposing it > meets your criteria above? Well, it depends on the number of pages. Say 1 dollar each 8-9 pages >Campaign worlds > >Do you like worlds which have > * cultures much like the real-world ones (Ars Magica's Mythic Europe) > * cultures borrowing some elements from real-world ones (Mystara) > * completely fictional cultures (Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun) Both the latter two, with second one as best option >Do you think it's OK to model major campaign NPCs on real historical > figures? Yes, provided you leave space to let the other guess who's based on who (not complete and easy references). Also they must be inserted well in the ongoing campaign world. >Do you like campaigns to be large and expansive (Forgotten Realms), > or confined to a small area of the world (Dark Sun)? Both, though i prefer to focus on small parts first, maybe combining them together after a while (poilitical ties, wars, etc.). >Do you like worlds to be standard spherical planets, or all kinds of > weird shapes? All kinds of shapes (Spelljammer docet) >Do you want > * the whole world to be highly detailed (officially that is) > * main parts of the world to be detailed, but the rest untouched > * just the world map, little or no detail the major parts detailed, with possible further additions as the campaign goes on. Anyway, always leave something to the DM! >What would you pay (US$) for a good campaign setting boxed set (suppose it > meets your criteria above)? Again, depends on the material i find inside. However, no more than 35-40 bucks (US$), also counting exchange rate usually high! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:39:11 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim invasion In einer eMail vom 04.12.97 15:05:59 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << BTW, I was interested to know why did you think Atzanteotl would suggest alliance to Rafiel? Weren't they bitter enemies? And I thought that every Immortal's sphere is known to other Immortals (since they can ascertain that from the home plane). Why would Atzanteotl think Rafiel is an Entropic? >> Not Entropic, but Evil. Not that all immortals of the Sphere of Entropy have to be evil. Don't stuck on alignments. Mystara isn't the classic fantasy world with the good and the evil people. Our DM told us a story a few weeks ago. In an other group the PCs met their darker side (a kind of psychological test), but the player of the paladin simple said "I'm a paladin, I don't have a dark side inside me." Sounds nice, but it wouldn't be appropiate for Mystara. Everybody has a good and a evil side. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:57:19 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil At 12.39 04/12/97 -0500, Jamuga Khan wrote: >In einer eMail vom 04.12.97 15:05:59 MEZ, schreiben Sie: > ><< BTW, I was interested to know why did you think Atzanteotl would suggest > alliance to Rafiel? Weren't they bitter enemies? And I thought that every > Immortal's sphere is known to other Immortals (since they can ascertain > that from the home plane). Why would Atzanteotl think Rafiel is an > Entropic? >> > >Not Entropic, but Evil. Not that all immortals of the Sphere of Entropy have >to be evil. Don't stuck on alignments. Mystara isn't the classic fantasy world >with the good and the evil people. Yes, i agree with you. Just look at Nyx: she's not evil, but simply prefers a world where undead (who represent chaos, the opposite of normal living people who represent the law) rule. Masauwu is another example of a non-evil Entropic Immortal. The majority of Entropics is evil, i know, but there are other evil types also in the other Spheres so... DM "To boldly chart where no one has charted before" Raman Nabonidus' motto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:19:45 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil DM pontificated: > > Yes, i agree with you. Just look at Nyx: she's not evil, but simply prefers > a world where undead (who represent chaos, the opposite of normal living > people who represent the law) rule. Humm, why would undead be representing chaos? They are for most part unchanging and "live" much longer than normal being. Wouldn't that make them more lawful? While living people, at least the humans, generally try to change their enviroment to suit themself, should that be consider as more chaoic? - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:48:07 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 DUFFISGOD@aol.com wrote: >the immortal atraughan is planning a major plot against atzaneotl. I took him > to be the butterfly in the pwa (3??) this is also a point in that gaz 14 was >a total setup for T$R's relaes of the hollow world box set and Sons of Azca. >which was blatantly advertised in the atraughanclans book. i never read the >sons book but i assumed it would tie up the ends of what happened with >atraughan . Some thing big is coming with the calns and i dont know what it >is. I personally were gong to have the shadow elves and the humanoids band >together in oenkmar and drive off the Imperialistic city of the stars shadow >elves only to be enslaved by the tiger clan. sort of a condenasation of >forces for a plot by atzanteotl. this would involve darokin and an agreement >with loki and the others from the brotherhood of shadow. Well, as Cthuludrew said, you can expect some major events in the next almanac regarding Atruaghin (I prefer his original Azcan-style name, Atruatzin). You haven't read Sons of Azca? It's definitely one of my favourite Mystara books, and pretty central to the whole Hollow World setting (being the first major culture to be properly detailed). It actually leaves a lot more loose ends regarding Atruatzin than GAZ14, rather than clearing them up. It also has some interesting history to do with Atruatzin, which ties in with the whole Aengmor/Oenkmar thing (has anyone ever actually tried to fit the various threads of that together yet? What with the additions to the history of the city in both GAZ13 and HWR1, and the whole Schattenalfen thing from the Hollow World set, I have a feeling things might not fit together too well...). Thorf. ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." - Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings" Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #219 ***************************** From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #220 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Friday, December 5 1997 Volume 02 : Number 220 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:47:24 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: > Humm, why would undead be representing chaos? They are for most part > unchanging and "live" much longer than normal being. Wouldn't that > make them more lawful? While living people, at least the humans, > generally try to change their enviroment to suit themself, should > that be consider as more chaoic? That's a good point about their unchangingness, but they also cause their environment to change quite a bit, by virtue of their existence- killing others to sustain themselves (most undead), despoiling/destroying their surroundings (notably certain Spirits, Nightshades), etc. I'd probably say they represent Neutrality more than either of the other two ethos, as they create a sort of balance... - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 16:13:59 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim invasion At 13.28 04/12/97 +0200, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >> >BTW, I was interested to know why did you think Atzanteotl would suggest >alliance to Rafiel? Weren't they bitter enemies? And I thought that every >Immortal's sphere is known to other Immortals (since they can ascertain >that from the home plane). Why would Atzanteotl think Rafiel is an >Entropic? Ok, let's try to shed some light on the most controversial point of my Invasion Timeline. Let's start from your last question. Atzanteotl thinks Rafiel is an Entropic because of the odd and apparently cruel practice that his followers must perform (wanderers custom, abandoning of deformed babies...) This attitude of Atzanteotl is described both in Gaz13 and WotI (and maybe also in the HW immortal section). Do Immortals know each other sphere? Well, this is unclear. We know that on Pandius Immortals tend to build their estates close to Immortals of the same sphere, but this is not a strict rule. Given that Rafiel (as Rad and Benekander) is not a "standard" Immortal we (me and Herve) thought that he may not take active part in Immortal social life, so he might even not have an estate on Pandius. Anyway this is an unclear area. Why did Atzanteotl suggest alliance to Rafiel and why did Rafiel accept? I think Herve is better suited to answer this question, because he was the one who had this idea in the first place, anyway I'll try to give you my opinion. - -Out of game explanation- We were looking for a possible source of the spell that corrupted Canolbarth. That wasn't standard magic, so we thought to Immortal magic, Entropic magic to be correct and thus Atzanteotl. - -In game explanation- Atz and Rafiel are enemies, but they both (especially Atz) dislike Ilsundal (for different reason). Rafiel main aim is to (secretly) complete the Chamber of the Spheres, not to have is followers conquer Alfheim. During WotI Rafiel is on Rad's side, while Ilsundal (and thus Alfheim) are on Ixion's side. Atzanteotl is the leader of the Brotherhood of the Shadow, whose aim to cause as much pain as it can, so Atz tries to lenghten the war helping the weaker side (Rad). Rafiel accepts for several reason: 1) Shadow Elves on the surface may help Glantri if Alphatian troops invade Brun 2) The conquest of Alfheim strenghtens Rafiel place in the hearth of Shadow Elves 3) Most Important: moving followers to the surface he diverts Immortals attention from City of the Stars and his secret project. Obviously Atzanteotl is a treacherous guy, so things didn't go as planned (by Rafiel) and now the corruption of the forest seems unstoppable. Hope this answer your questions. Maybe Herve will have something more to say on this topic. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:43:13 -0500 (EST) From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps of Savage Baronies << << Khan you are missing map 180 I will be glad to send it if you wish. ~(=Dleggend=> >> Oh, I have Ark180. But it makes really trouble. Only one of four programs is able to open it. Jamuga Khan (Obviously this stupid map never heard anything about the might of Jamuga Khan.) >> BTW, I managed to open it with one program and resave it. Now I can open it with all programs, but it's much smaller in size. Looks good though. Jamuga Khan "I order all these stupid maps to be thrown to dust." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:00:46 -0500 (EST) From: Dleggend@aol.com Subject: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded I was wondering about converting the Mystic Class for D&D to AD&D. I haven't seen a AD&D class like it. Here are the things that I think need converting: Hp: 1d8 Thac0: same as Rogue Save as: Priest AC: Start at 10 The rest remains the same. Am I missing anything or any disagreements? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 14:02:29 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil Undead in my mind represent an evil(chaotic) force since their creation is a corruption of the life process. The life process is lawful in alignment and it's corruption wouldn't lead to neutrality but chaos. Isn't that why clerics of lawful alignment aren't permitted to create undead? They're need to feed on the living shouldn't be a factor in alignment since everything feeds on something. Only the process of creating undead is chaotic but the result is neutral for the mindless types and usually evil for the ones that think. Hmm.. getting my game systems confused again I see but, oh well ;) - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 15:14:39 -0500 From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim invasion Fabrizio, I really like this detailed explanation. My campaign is just nearing the point where the PCs may be intervening in Alfheim/Aengmor. I always wondered about Rafiel and his motives and how they related to the conquest. This fits in very nicely. Thanx!! ray Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > > At 13.28 04/12/97 +0200, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > >> > >BTW, I was interested to know why did you think Atzanteotl would suggest > >alliance to Rafiel? Weren't they bitter enemies? And I thought that every > >Immortal's sphere is known to other Immortals (since they can ascertain > >that from the home plane). Why would Atzanteotl think Rafiel is an > >Entropic? > > Ok, let's try to shed some light on the most controversial point of my > Invasion Timeline. Let's start from your last question. > > Atzanteotl thinks Rafiel is an Entropic because of the odd and apparently > cruel practice that his followers must perform (wanderers custom, > abandoning of deformed babies...) > This attitude of Atzanteotl is described both in Gaz13 and WotI (and maybe > also in the HW immortal section). > > Do Immortals know each other sphere? Well, this is unclear. We know that on > Pandius Immortals tend to build their estates close to Immortals of the > same sphere, but this is not a strict rule. Given that Rafiel (as Rad and > Benekander) is not a "standard" Immortal we (me and Herve) thought that he > may not take active part in Immortal social life, so he might even not have > an estate on Pandius. > Anyway this is an unclear area. > > Why did Atzanteotl suggest alliance to Rafiel and why did Rafiel accept? > I think Herve is better suited to answer this question, because he was the > one who had this idea in the first place, anyway I'll try to give you my > opinion. > -Out of game explanation- > We were looking for a possible source of the spell that corrupted > Canolbarth. That wasn't standard magic, so we thought to Immortal magic, > Entropic magic to be correct and thus Atzanteotl. > -In game explanation- > Atz and Rafiel are enemies, but they both (especially Atz) dislike Ilsundal > (for different reason). Rafiel main aim is to (secretly) complete the > Chamber of the Spheres, not to have is followers conquer Alfheim. > During WotI Rafiel is on Rad's side, while Ilsundal (and thus Alfheim) are > on Ixion's side. Atzanteotl is the leader of the Brotherhood of the Shadow, > whose aim to cause as much pain as it can, so Atz tries to lenghten the war > helping the weaker side (Rad). > Rafiel accepts for several reason: > 1) Shadow Elves on the surface may help Glantri if Alphatian troops invade > Brun > 2) The conquest of Alfheim strenghtens Rafiel place in the hearth of Shadow > Elves > 3) Most Important: moving followers to the surface he diverts Immortals > attention from City of the Stars and his secret project. > > Obviously Atzanteotl is a treacherous guy, so things didn't go as planned > (by Rafiel) and now the corruption of the forest seems unstoppable. > > Hope this answer your questions. Maybe Herve will have something more to > say on this topic. > > ************** > Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com > DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant > Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering > Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 13:22:10 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 Dleggend@aol.com wrote: > I was wondering about converting the Mystic Class for D&D to AD&D. I haven't > seen a AD&D class like it. I'm working on revising the Mystic class to make it a more balanced class, based around the Monk rules in the AD&D Oriental Adventures Hardcover (loosely based) and utilizing the Weapon Mastery rules (for their martial arts). It will also include a revision (expanded description, really) of the class itself. I'll post it when I've finished it- still one or two things to iron out. It shouldn't be too difficult to make it into AD&D terms. > Here are the things that I think need converting: > > Hp: 1d8 Sounds about right. > Thac0: same as Rogue I'd say Thac0 as Priest, myself, as their primary discipline is in Martial Arts. The revised desc I've got for them (D&D terms) leaves them with the Thac0 of fighters, as they are essentially a subdiscipline of the fighter class. > Save as: Priest Priest or Rogue. > The rest remains the same. > > Am I missing anything or any disagreements? What xp tables are you using for them? And are you keeping the same damage tables, etc? - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:44:46 -0500 (EST) From: Namlespoet@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps of Savage Baronies Khan, What are you using? I can't get it to open with anything I have. Deepest thanks to Lord Vaken for posting the files. Namlesspoet "If you don't like my song, my bow could hum a few bars of another" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:59:50 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim invasion At 15.14 04/12/97 -0500, Ray Brooks wrote: >Fabrizio, > > I really like this detailed explanation. My campaign is just nearing >the point where the PCs may be intervening in Alfheim/Aengmor. I always >wondered about Rafiel and his motives and how they related to the >conquest. This fits in very nicely. Thanx!! Thanks Ray. I just tried to summarize the tens of letters I exchanged with Herve over the matter. The main problem over the invasion of Alfheim is, IMO, the behaviour of Ilsundal: he didn't do anything to help his followers... actually he didn't do anything at all during WotI except siding with Ixion. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:00:56 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded Perhaps you should check out the new Player's Option: Spells and Magic book if that's possible ... at the very least peek at one in a bookstore, and if you're a regular AD&D player and not totally averse to new tricks I highly recommend buying it ... it's got a lot of really excellent stuff. Anyway, they have Monks as a subclass of Priests, using many aspects of the old 1st edition monks (and many features also overlap with OD&D mystics) but using the framework of the Priest class (including hp and thaco) and the new martial arts rules from Player's Option: Combat and Tactics ... there is also a system for customizing features of various classes, so for instance one could theoretically make a martial artist who uses one (MAYBE two) school(s) of wizard spells ... certainly a stimulating possibility ... or with thief abilities as in 1st edition. One idea I am particularly interested in is developing the spider-mystics of Thothia specifically as a class of specialty priest ... I haven't worked out the details yet but a player in my game just made a 1st level Thothian mystic (Nephlite of Asidaimon) ... he's similar to a 1st edition AD&D monk (with thief skills and combat abilities) but also has a granted power of the 1st level magic user spell Spider Climb ... in the future I am thinking about giving him web and poison type powers in place of the high level abilities monks normally get. Has anyone else developed much information on Aketheti's mystics? peace, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 Dleggend@aol.com wrote: > > > I was wondering about converting the Mystic Class for D&D to AD&D. I haven't > > seen a AD&D class like it. > > I'm working on revising the Mystic class to make it a more balanced > class, based around the Monk rules in the AD&D Oriental Adventures > Hardcover (loosely based) and utilizing the Weapon Mastery rules (for > their martial arts). It will also include a revision (expanded > description, really) of the class itself. > > I'll post it when I've finished it- still one or two things to iron out. > It shouldn't be too difficult to make it into AD&D terms. > > > Here are the things that I think need converting: > > > > Hp: 1d8 > > Sounds about right. > > > Thac0: same as Rogue > > I'd say Thac0 as Priest, myself, as their primary discipline is in Martial Arts. > The revised desc I've got for them (D&D terms) leaves them with the Thac0 > of fighters, as they are essentially a subdiscipline of the fighter class. > > > Save as: Priest > > Priest or Rogue. > > > The rest remains the same. > > > > Am I missing anything or any disagreements? > > What xp tables are you using for them? And are you keeping the same > damage tables, etc? > > ------------------------ > Cthuludrew, the Great Old One > (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) > "Actions have consequences." > URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:32:24 -0500 From: Aron Reif Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi At 12:23 PM 12/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >In einer eMail vom 02.12.97 10:30:22 MEZ, schreiben Sie: > >Hm, how much travel is be conducted by Thyatis? And the traders of Kastelios >are starting to travel northward. > > well, since Thyatis conquered a sliver of Davania (the Hinterlands), I assume that they have at least a few trade routes to that area, but only that small region (the northern tip of Davania closest to Thyatis). On the Trade Routes Map that came with GAZ9-Minrothad Guilds, it shows that the trade route south towards the Thanegioth Archipelago is "rarely traveled". I believe that, officially at least, there isn't much contact between the two hemispheres. I'm sorry, but I don't know where Kastelios is, so I don't know about that area. Aron Reif areif@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:44:04 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil can't mystara keep the concept of evil for specific circumstances while dropping the overcomplicated (and kinda cheesy) alignment system of AD&D? i always thought alignment languages were kinda stupid and that alignment often confuses more than it clarifies in game play ... but i think the concept of evil is important for protection spells, for classification of monsters, etc. ... and I think that undead are virtually synonymous with evil. Detect evil spells, for instance, should automatically detect undead, but not evil humans, etc. ... the standard logic applies pretty much as it's written in the rules ... for instance protection from evil blocks out summoned creatures even if not of evil alignment ... evil in game terms is thus actually somewhat separate from character alignments ... does this make sense? m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:57:14 -0500 From: Aron Reif Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded At 03:00 PM 12/4/97 -0500, you wrote: >I was wondering about converting the Mystic Class for D&D to AD&D. I haven't >seen a AD&D class like it. > Check out the Fighting Monk (in any of its variations). The Fighting Monk priest kit appears in the Complete Priests Book, Red Steel Box Set, and the Player's Option: Spells & Magic Book (as a Monk). Each of these three three variations are different, so you might have to check all three sources to find the one you want. Yes, I know that these are based on priests and the D&D Mystics wasn't a priest at all, but this might at least give you a few ideas that you wouldn't have otherwise thought about. Aron Reif areif@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:01:32 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN] The List has a New Home! Mystarans, Got some good news! Got word back from the MPGN guys, and they are going to host the MML! Woohoo! Stuff... 1) They are going to grab the digest archives from io.com 2) I will continue on as the Admin for the list 3) Everyone will automatically be subscribed to the new list when it is up. 4) The MML page (in all of it's "glory") will move from io.com to my local ISP. I will send the URL when it is all up. I will send an announcement to the list when the new list is up, including info on what the address is. That's it for now. Will keep ya' posted Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@io.com "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:03:10 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [Mystara] Alingment Languages (was: Entropy vs Evil) Matthew Levy meandered fecklessly > i always thought alignment languages were kinda stupid... For the record, alignment languages are not part of 2nd Ed. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@io.com "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:27:34 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil Well, this is another messy point about alignment in D&D. IIRC, lawful clerics shouldn't create undead because it is an evil act. Not because it is a chaoic act. And I don't see how life process is lawful. It might be consider as good, but it is too random and everchanging to be consider as lawful. Galwylin pontificated: > > Undead in my mind represent an evil(chaotic) force since their creation > is a corruption of the life process. The life process is lawful in > alignment and it's corruption wouldn't lead to neutrality but chaos. > Isn't that why clerics of lawful alignment aren't permitted to create > undead? They're need to feed on the living shouldn't be a factor in > alignment since everything feeds on something. Only the process of > creating undead is chaotic but the result is neutral for the mindless > types and usually evil for the ones that think. Hmm.. getting my game > systems confused again I see but, oh well ;) > > -- > Galwylin > Email: galwylin@airnet.net > Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ > > Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! > http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm > - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:54:55 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded I haven't commented on this before but I think mystic are a totally different fish than priests or monks. There's no Immortal whose worshippers are mystics and there's nothing that I've read that would try them to any clerical order since their power comes from within. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I think of them as psionists without the abilities to affect others in non-physical ways. Aron Reif wrote: > > At 03:00 PM 12/4/97 -0500, you wrote: > >I was wondering about converting the Mystic Class for D&D to AD&D. I haven't > >seen a AD&D class like it. > > > > Check out the Fighting Monk (in any of its variations). The Fighting Monk > priest kit appears in the Complete Priests Book, Red Steel Box Set, and the > Player's Option: Spells & Magic Book (as a Monk). Each of these three > three variations are different, so you might have to check all three > sources to find the one you want. Yes, I know that these are based on > priests and the D&D Mystics wasn't a priest at all, but this might at least > give you a few ideas that you wouldn't have otherwise thought about. - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 23:03:30 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] [ADMIN] The List has a New Home! That's great, Leroy! - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 23:05:24 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alingment Languages (was: Entropy vs Evil) Leroy, you forgot to add... 'Alignment languages are stupid' ;> Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > > Matthew Levy meandered fecklessly > > > i always thought alignment languages were kinda stupid... > > For the record, alignment languages are not part of 2nd Ed. - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 23:10:45 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil I consider the life process as lawful because of the path it takes. Your born, you live awhile, you die. I believe it's one of the most lawful things known. Adding another step causes it to become chaotic (or evil, if you prefer) since it no longer follows a set path. I also consider the spells 'raise dead' and 'resurrection' should have stigmas attached since superstitous people could say the body lives but how do we know that's the same soul/spirit. Shin Chyang Yu wrote: > > Well, this is another messy point about alignment in D&D. IIRC, > lawful clerics shouldn't create undead because it is an evil act. > Not because it is a chaoic act. And I don't see how life process > is lawful. It might be consider as good, but it is too random > and everchanging to be consider as lawful. - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:27:22 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alingment Languages (was: Entropy vs Evil) Galwylin meandered fecklessly... > Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > > > > Matthew Levy meandered fecklessly > > > > > i always thought alignment languages were kinda stupid... > > > > For the record, alignment languages are not part of 2nd Ed. > Leroy, you forgot to add... 'Alignment languages are stupid' ;> Actually, I didn't forget. I assumed that it was self-evident :) Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@io.com "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:13:48 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded AFAIK there are only two groups of mystics already detailed in Mystara: those in Lhamsa, Glantri, who do not serve a particular immortal as you say but seem a lot like AD&D 1st edition monks to me, and those in Thothia, who serve the Night Spider and her daughter Aketheti - and with these we have no reason to assume their power comes from within rather than from Arachne Prime and the sphere of entropy. So on a sample of two it seems only 50% of the data supports 50% of your conclusion. peace, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Galwylin wrote: > I haven't commented on this before but I think mystic are a totally > different fish than priests or monks. There's no Immortal whose > worshippers are mystics and there's nothing that I've read that would > try them to any clerical order since their power comes from within. > Perhaps I'm missing something, but I think of them as psionists without > the abilities to affect others in non-physical ways. > > Aron Reif wrote: > > > > At 03:00 PM 12/4/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >I was wondering about converting the Mystic Class for D&D to AD&D. I haven't > > >seen a AD&D class like it. > > > > > > > Check out the Fighting Monk (in any of its variations). The Fighting Monk > > priest kit appears in the Complete Priests Book, Red Steel Box Set, and the > > Player's Option: Spells & Magic Book (as a Monk). Each of these three > > three variations are different, so you might have to check all three > > sources to find the one you want. Yes, I know that these are based on > > priests and the D&D Mystics wasn't a priest at all, but this might at least > > give you a few ideas that you wouldn't have otherwise thought about. > > -- > Galwylin > Email: galwylin@airnet.net > Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ > > Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! > http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:32:28 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim important people : CoolHands In case the connection was not obvious -- compare Coolhands with Leetah (Cutter's mate) from the Elfquest series. With that you should have little trouble identifying the rest of the Long Runner clan. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:32:27 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim invasion In a message dated 97-12-04 09:05:59 EST, k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi writes: << And I thought that every Immortal's sphere is known to other Immortals (since they can ascertain that from the home plane). Why would Atzanteotl think Rafiel is an Entropic? >> It is a major premise of the description of Rafiel that he is indeed able to fool the Entropics into believing that he is one of them. Furthermore, Loki has most of the Nordic Immortals fooled into believing that he is not an Entropic. There must be something about the home planes of these two Immortals that allows them to pull of these scams. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:12:18 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Matthew Levy wrote: > AFAIK there are only two groups of mystics already detailed in Mystara: > those in Lhamsa, Glantri, who do not serve a particular immortal as you > say but seem a lot like AD&D 1st edition monks to me, and those in > Thothia, who serve the Night Spider and her daughter Aketheti - and with > these we have no reason to assume their power comes from within rather > than from Arachne Prime and the sphere of entropy. So on a sample of two > it seems only 50% of the data supports 50% of your conclusion. > Actually, there are also the mystic orders of Sind, which do not really follow any Immortal - although I wonder if the Shehids might start to venerate Gareth, following Anand's example. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 02:38:43 -0800 From: Sheer El-Showk Subject: [Mystara] Need advice As a new-comer to this online world of Mystara I would like to ask some questions. I have been playing in gazateer for quite a while and have run a campeign from 1000AC to 1010AC with some characters I'd rather keep. I would really like to integerate my campeign into the events maintained by the net almanacs so that coming up with ideas for my world will be easier. Any suggestions. Thanks, Sheer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 02:35:41 -0800 From: Sheer El-Showk Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil I'm new to this list so sorry if I am not aware of the full extent of this discussion. I'm running the old Gazateer setting in 1st edition AD&D. My approach to the entire alignement issue is that evil involves selfishness while good corresponds to a belief is general welfare. Lawful versus chaotic as emphasized in D&D is more a matter of whether the character feels a strong need for independence or whether they are willing to acknowledge a higher authority. Thus a soldier willing to be cruel to others obeying his superior is evil but also lawful. Chaotic has very little to with it unless except for within the context of facist states where individualists are regarded as evil. I'd say raising dead is evil for two reasons: presumably it violates the soul of the individual being raised (a selfish act), and it involves invoking the negative material plane, typically associated with destruction. It is also chaotic for the latter reason, the negative prime material plane contains destructive energies and is thus associated with the chaotic nature of destruction. Shin Chyang Yu wrote: > > Well, this is another messy point about alignment in D&D. IIRC, > lawful clerics shouldn't create undead because it is an evil act. > Not because it is a chaoic act. And I don't see how life process > is lawful. It might be consider as good, but it is too random > and everchanging to be consider as lawful. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 02:46:00 -0800 From: Sheer El-Showk Subject: [Mystara] More advice Continueing my previous request for advice. I am going to try to bring my campeign into some kind of sync with some of the more recently publiced events, namely the huge war between alphetia, glantri, and thyatis and the master of hule, though I will make it fit my admitedly skewed campeign. I have a lot of rule books and up to champions level D&D books as well as the Dawn of the Empires gazateer set, but I don't have much in the way of dealing with immortals or of the other lands on Mystara (except for the darokin set). Any advice on what I should get it I am goig to try and play out this campeign. Thanks, Sheer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:22:23 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Maps?? So, does anybody have those Savage Coast maps posted somewhere yet? I didn't see any URL. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:24:45 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil At 13.19 04/12/97 -0500, John Yu wrote: >DM pontificated: >> >> Yes, i agree with you. Just look at Nyx: she's not evil, but simply prefers >> a world where undead (who represent chaos, the opposite of normal living >> people who represent the law) rule. > >Humm, why would undead be representing chaos? They are for most part >unchanging and "live" much longer than normal being. Wouldn't that >make them more lawful? While living people, at least the humans, >generally try to change their enviroment to suit themself, should >that be consider as more chaoic? What i wanted to say is that humans, or better living beings, are the Normal Ones, those who live inside the Natural Law (life-death cycle), while Undead are obviously out of this cycle, and therefore lawless or chaotic. It's only a rethorical point of view actually.. DM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 08:33:54 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Matthew Levy wrote: > AFAIK there are only two groups of mystics already detailed in Mystara: > those in Lhamsa, Glantri, who do not serve a particular immortal as you > say but seem a lot like AD&D 1st edition monks to me, and those in > Thothia, who serve the Night Spider and her daughter Aketheti - and with > these we have no reason to assume their power comes from within rather > than from Arachne Prime and the sphere of entropy. So on a sample of two > it seems only 50% of the data supports 50% of your conclusion. Actually, there are a few others- There is a monastery on an island (Green Island?) in the Minrothad Guilds; there are numerous Mystic Orders in Sind (recall Anand Brishnapur, Mystic of the Shehid Order); and there are the infamous Mystic Tortles of Dunwick on the Savage Coast. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 08:39:22 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim important people : CoolHands On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Kaviyd wrote: > In case the connection was not obvious -- compare Coolhands with Leetah > (Cutter's mate) from the Elfquest series. With that you should have little > trouble identifying the rest of the Long Runner clan. Do you mean identifying the rest of the Belcadiz clan? Because I thought the Long Runners were pretty obvious from Beasthunter (who looks just like Cutter) and Starwatcher (who looks just like Skywise). Heck, anyone want to bet the beast that Beasthunter slew was Madcoil (or his Mystara equivalent)? ;) If anyone were interested in fleshing out the Long Runners, the Elfquest series would be the place to start. I don't know how well Leetah's clan might translate to the Belcadiz elves, though (I don't recall that much about them). Cutter's rival for Leetah's affections, whatever his name was, would be an interesting character- I might even say that he would fit the profile of Don Hippolito de Belcadiz... at least in the early issues of Elfquest (he became less of a jerk later on in the series.) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:52:12 EST From: Dleggend Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps of Savage Baronies In a message dated 97-12-05 05:39:03 EST, you write: << BTW, I managed to open it with one program and resave it. Now I can open it with all programs, but it's much smaller in size. Looks good though. Jamuga Khan >> Khan can you send me the new map? The old map is also giving me trouble. Thanx Dleggend http://members.aol.com/dleggend/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:05:46 EST From: Dleggend Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded In a message dated 97-12-05 05:44:46 EST, you write: << 'd say Thac0 as Priest, myself, as their primary discipline is in Martial Arts. The revised desc I've got for them (D&D terms) leaves them with the Thac0 of fighters, as they are essentially a subdiscipline of the fighter class.>> I pick the thief thac0 because I find them to be similar to thiefs. I don't think they should fight as good as fighters, but possible better then priest. << What xp tables are you using for them? And are you keeping the same damage tables, etc? >> Their xp is the same as the fighter, and when you look at the 2nd ed rules, the xp tables are the same for the fighters as in d&d. I am also keeping the damage table the same because ad&d and d&d weopons do the same damage. Therefor way should the Mystic damage table change? Just my opinion Dleggend http://members.aol.com/dleggend/index.html ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #220 ***************************** From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #221 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Saturday, December 6 1997 Volume 02 : Number 221 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:38:56 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Need advice At 02.38 05/12/96 -0800, Sheer wrote: > I would really like to integerate my campeign into the events >maintained by the net almanacs so that coming up with ideas for my world >will be easier. Any suggestions. Mmhhh... i don't have really understood your problem... First of all, in which year do ya play? Before or after WotI (i have understood you're about to play WotI from your posts, but i may be wrong)? If it's before, then you just have to buy Wrath of the Immortals boxed set: this deals with all the main adventures during that period (AC 1005-1009). It also presents the Immortals with statistics, powers and how to handle them (or any players becoming immortal). If you're playing after AC 1010, then you have the PWA and our Net Almanac of Mystara which suggest possible way of developing the official campaign. I don't see any particular problems here, so unless you've specific questions i think this is all you need. Hope to be helpful DM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:40:23 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] More advice At 02.46 05/12/96 -0800, Sheer wrote: >Continueing my previous request for advice. I am going to try to bring >my campeign into some kind of sync with some of the more recently >publiced events, namely the huge war between alphetia, glantri, and >thyatis and the master of hule, though I will make it fit my admitedly >skewed campeign. I have a lot of rule books and up to champions level >D&D books as well as the Dawn of the Empires gazateer set, but I don't >have much in the way of dealing with immortals or of the other lands on >Mystara (except for the darokin set). Any advice on what I should get >it I am goig to try and play out this campeign. As i told you in my previous post, i think your problems will be solved if u buy Wrath of the Immortals boxed set, which is invaluable if u want to play the Great War between Alphatia, Thyatis and Glantri. It also deals a lot with Immortals, so.... DM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:54:16 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Day of Dread and magical monsters Bruce Heard wrote in Dragon Magazine # 194: <> Well, since very few magical weapons still work during the DoD, i'd say those magical monsters immune to normal or +1 weapons are virtually undefeatable.. poor adventurers. ;) <> Wait, wait, i have a few things to say here. First of all, lycanthropic changes do not occur only a certain number of times a day, according to PC4. Only the youngest werecreatures (below Normal Monster level) are affected by this rule, but the more experienced can turn every time they want, there's no restriction, and thus they shouldn't be affected by this event. As for dragons' breath weapon like beholder flying (which was mentioned previously in the article), i always understood it could be considered a "magical effect" but not really magic. Beholder flying ability is natural for example: air released by numerous air filled sacks inside the beholder skin (see I, Tyrant supplement by Aaron Allston for beholder ecology and powers). Likewise, i think dragons' breath is a natural phenomenon occurring in one of their lungs that draws body substances that can be released only thrice per day due to the dragons' biology. It is maybe the dragons inherent magical nature that makes them "magical", but the same should be said for elves infravision (which is a natural ability, not a magical one). IMHO, of course.. DM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:29:14 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Dleggend wrote: > In a message dated 97-12-05 05:44:46 EST, you write: > > << 'd say Thac0 as Priest, myself, as their primary discipline is in Martial > Arts. The revised desc I've got for them (D&D terms) leaves them with > the Thac0 of fighters, as they are essentially a subdiscipline of the > fighter class.>> > > I pick the thief thac0 because I find them to be similar to thiefs. I don't > think they should fight as good as fighters, but possible better then priest. Then you should go with the Priest Thac0, because at higher levels they fight much better than Rogues. (2/3 as opposed to the Rogues 1/2). > << What xp tables are you using for them? And are you keeping the same > damage tables, etc. >> > > Their xp is the same as the fighter, and when you look at the 2nd ed rules, > the xp tables are the same for the fighters as in d&d. I am also keeping the > damage table the same because ad&d and d&d weopons do the same damage. > Therefor way should the Mystic damage table change? I was just curious. I am changing the table, myself, as the damage levels are too unbalancing to make for a good class (a 16th level Mystic does 4 atks of 3d12 each: min/max dmg= 12 to 144 points of damage/round; 36th level fighter with a +5 normal sword, maximum attacks/rd= 30-65 points of damage per round. That's not factoring in Weapon Mastery, which- presuming a GM for the fighter, which is like 3d6+2 or something; don't have my books- raises his max dmg to 20-80 pts/rd). Pretty unbalancing (IMO) to have a Mystic with all his abilities and damage and AC to do more damage at 16th level than a 36th level fighter. But I think I've covered all this pretty well in my revised Mystic bit, so I'll hopefully post that up this weekend (it's my last day of work, so I've got some free time to spare now. :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:31:07 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Day of Dread and magical monsters On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, DM wrote: > Well, since very few magical weapons still work during the DoD, i'd say > those magical monsters immune to normal or +1 weapons are virtually > undefeatable.. poor adventurers. ;) Time to call in the Mystic orders. Their hand attacks will be the sole protection most people have against these invulnerable creatures. :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:31:06 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded Interestingly, just last week, I was thinking whether I should rework the mystic class for the MOrient setting. My first thought is to base the mystics on characters in Chinese martial art novels, most commonly seen in the West in those bad Hong Kong movies. I'm thinking of making them a combination of fighter and mage. Fighter as they are train to fight, mage as they are trained to manuplate "chi" (or Ka in Japanese, I think). The chi aspect is what seperates them from normal fighters. I view chi as the same force as the mana that magic-users utilize. Except magic-users use that energy in bursts to power their spells, while mystics flow small amount of that energy through their bodies continuously to improve their "inner strength". But this project is really low on my priority list right now, and if someone else have already reworked the mystic class before then, i can just make this a new class. Galwylin pontificated: > > I haven't commented on this before but I think mystic are a totally > different fish than priests or monks. There's no Immortal whose > worshippers are mystics and there's nothing that I've read that would > try them to any clerical order since their power comes from within. > Perhaps I'm missing something, but I think of them as psionists without > the abilities to affect others in non-physical ways. > - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:55:27 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: [Mystara] RE: Future Scenarios >At 16.20 01/12/97 PST, I wrote: >>Here's an idea for >>the Almanac, in the recent PWA's Darokin was being kind and helpful to >>Aengmor, all the while neglecting Rockhome costing them an ally on the >>WDL, what if The Chancellor is really in love with the Shadow Princess >>(hint, ;) On Dec. 2 1997 at 8:38 pm MEZ Fabriola Responded >I think that Darokin was kind to the Shadow Elves because: >1) They feared such an aggressive neighbor right inside their >territtory Not true, They stood ready for war when Aengmor threatened to take the entire Canolbarth forest in 1010 A.C., Aengmor stood down. >2) Darokinian merchants saw Aengmor (the country) as a possible >market. >With the forest in such a bad mood, Rafielton has no resources, so it >should either ask City of the Stars for help or buy goods from >Darokin... Darokin Philosophy is "There always a customer anywhere in the world" of course, they would try to open trade with Aengmor(old Alfheim) although, the Shadow Elves could get items from a place they trust such as the City of the Stars. >Anyway the Shadow Princess will really fall in love with someone, but >you'll probably see it in 1016 Almanac and here I really mean 1016, >not 1015! Fabrizio, I'm a Western Known World expert for 10 years, my campaign is centered around Darokin, and Karameikos. Any choice you have for Tenadelayo will have to meet my approval(don't start with King Doriath or any Alfheim Clanmaster or Treekeeper.) >I think Hulean Pirates already have their problems (isn't it Andrew?). >Moreover Ierendi's navy is mainly a defensive one, I don't Honor Island >mages will agree to use their powerful ships outside Ierendi's waters, and >without those ships their naval force is not better than Karameikos one IMO. The Hule Pirates living off the Sind Coast better be having Shark-kin/Sahuagin from Sharkara Trouble. Ierendei will Join WDL, it's the Western DEFENSE League. The only aggresive agenda on their mind are how to liberate Sind from Hule's iron grip. Beside these countries pledge to help each in case empire like Hule or Thyatis were to attack. Sind Rebels are Shadow members of WDL. Read PWA 1012, where it suggest you run an adventure to save a Sindhi noblewoman from Hulean's who accused her of treason, a have her as a shadow member of WDL, in the future. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:08:59 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: [Mystara] ToL - What are the missing three tribe of Ilsundal? At 11.20 01/12/97 -0600, Cecil wrote: >> We know there are 10 Original ToL in Mystara: one is in the >> Sylvan >> Realm (sources: CM7, GAZ5), six were in Alfheim and are now in > Karameikos >> and Wendar, protected by the clans they belong to (sources: GAZ5, > WotI), >> and >> finally one is in Karameikos, the Callarii's ToL (source: GAZ5). >> Three are still missing. Where are they? I did some research reading Glantri:KOM and Karameikos:KOA, of the missing three, one of them is definitely Erewan, the trouble is that their treekeeper Lady Eleesea (N W10) is currently suffering from a disease cause by the touch of a Heucuva summoned by Alphatians in the WOTI. The Book doesn't mention if the tree was destroyed during the Meteor Crash of 1006 a.c., I do believe that an Erewan Artifact, a spear called Spellslayer was crafted from a branch of the ToL. In Karameikos:KOA it mentions that Vyalia came from the first Elven migration, and that the Calarii came during Karameikos Dark Age. By the way, i will be leaving this weekend to San Jose for The M:TG Grand Prix San Fransisco, i hope to find a TSR/WOTC staffer there to give me info on if and when they might be printing a MYSTARA supplement. - -Bye- --- o > -_____- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 20:20:05 +0100 From: Tomas Sanchez Subject: [Mystara] Thotian Mystics ( was : Mystic to AD&D ) Matthew Levy wrote: > AFAIK there are only two groups of mystics already detailed in > Mystara: those in Lhamsa, Glantri, who do not serve a particular > immortal as you say but seem a lot like AD&D 1st edition monks to me, > and those in Thothia, who serve the Night Spider and her daughter > Aketheti - and with these we have no reason to assume their power > comes from within rather than from Arachne Prime and the sphere of > entropy. Hello Matthew. I have never heard of them before but i would be pretty interested in gathering some information about them and their strange cult. Would you please give me more information about them ? Thanks in advance. Tomás Sánchez Tejero deckard@encomix.es ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:41:47 EST From: Dleggend Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps?? In a message dated 97-12-05 09:59:16 EST, you write: << So, does anybody have those Savage Coast maps posted somewhere yet? I didn't see any URL. >> I am posting them on my webpage. They should be up soon. Dleggend http://members.aol.com/dleggend/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 17:49:07 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded At 22.54 04/12/97 -0600, Galwylin wrote: >I haven't commented on this before but I think mystic are a totally >different fish than priests or monks. There's no Immortal whose >worshippers are mystics and there's nothing that I've read that would >try them to any clerical order since their power comes from within. >Perhaps I'm missing something, but I think of them as psionists without >the abilities to affect others in non-physical ways. I don't know very much about AD&D monks, but you can find good info on Mystics in the Cahmpions of Mystara boxed set. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 17:47:58 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded At 23.13 04/12/97 -0800, Matthew Levy wrote: >AFAIK there are only two groups of mystics already detailed in Mystara: >those in Lhamsa, Glantri, who do not serve a particular immortal as you >say but seem a lot like AD&D 1st edition monks to me, and those in >Thothia, who serve the Night Spider and her daughter Aketheti - and with >these we have no reason to assume their power comes from within rather >than from Arachne Prime and the sphere of entropy. So on a sample of two >it seems only 50% of the data supports 50% of your conclusion. There're lot of mystics in Sind (check CoM) and IIRC there's a group in Minrothad too. BTW: where're the Thotian mystics mentioned? Some M module? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 21:56:10 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] RE: Future Scenarios At 09.55 05/12/97 PST, George Valencia wrote: >>I think that Darokin was kind to the Shadow Elves because: >>1) They feared such an aggressive neighbor right inside their >>territtory >Not true, They stood ready for war when Aengmor threatened to take the >entire Canolbarth forest in 1010 A.C., Aengmor stood down. I don't think that right after WotI Darokin would have been able to defend itself from a Shadow Elf attack, but that's just my opinion. Maybe you've not read the novel "Son of Dawn", it's a good book on Darokin-Aengmor relationship set in 1010. >Darokin Philosophy is "There always a customer anywhere in the world" >of course, they would try to open trade with Aengmor(old Alfheim) >although, the Shadow Elves could get items from a place they trust such >as the City of the Stars. But Tanadaleyo's dream is to declare indipendence from City of the Stars, so she needs to find some other source of supplies. >Fabrizio, I'm a Western Known World expert for 10 years, my campaign is >centered around Darokin, and Karameikos. Any choice you have for >Tenadelayo will have to meet my approval(don't start with King Doriath >or any Alfheim Clanmaster or Treekeeper.) :-) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:36:55 EST From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded In a message dated 97-12-05 06:04:16 EST, you write: << Check out the Fighting Monk (in any of its variations). The Fighting Monk priest kit appears in the Complete Priests Book, Red Steel Box Set, and the Player's Option: Spells & Magic Book (as a Monk). Each of these three three variations are different, so you might have to check all three sources to find the one you want. Yes, I know that these are based on priests and the D&D Mystics wasn't a priest at all, but this might at least give you a few ideas that you wouldn't have otherwise thought about. >> Might also add the 1st Edition Monk to that list ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:05:56 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] RE: Future Scenarios In a message dated 97-12-05 19:09:45 EST, brizio@lunet.it writes: << Maybe you've not read the novel "Son of Dawn", it's a good book on Darokin-Aengmor relationship set in 1010. >> When was this novel published? I haven't even heard of it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 02:10:15 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: [Mystara] Survival Guides I was at the bookstore doing my weekly shopping and went ahead and bought the Player's and DM Survival Guides for Mystara. Has anybody else gotten these? Some cute stuff for the first timer but I did like the maps in the Player's that look like maps of Karamiekos, Darokin and Glantri characters would carry and the samples of elven, dwarven and magical script from the DM Guide. The Deck of Spheres was an interesting addition, too. Well, guess I'm completely in search of the old modules and accessories now since I've gotten every peice of AD&D Mystara material. - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 09:56:29 +0100 From: Tomas Sanchez Subject: [Mystara] BeastHunter And CoolHands : Cartoon Characters ? Kaviyd wrote: > In case the connection was not obvious -- compare Coolhands with > Leetah (Cutter's mate) from the Elfquest series. With that you > should have little trouble identifying the rest of the Long Runner > clan. > Do you mean identifying the rest of the Belcadiz clan? Because I > thought the Long Runners were pretty obvious from Beasthunter who > looks just like Cutter) and Starwatcher (who looks just like > Skywise). Heck, anyone want to bet the beast that Beasthunter > slew was Madcoil (or his Mystara equivalent)? ;) Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > If anyone were interested in fleshing out the Long Runners, the > Elfquest series would be the place to start. I don't know how well > Leetah's clan might translate to the Belcadiz elves, though (I don't > recall that much about them). Cutter's rival for Leetah's affections, > whatever his name was, would be an interesting character- I might > even say that he would fit the profile of Don Hippolito de Belcadiz.. > at least in the early issues of Elfquest ( he became less of a jerk > later on in the series.) I thought those cartoon comparisons were all a joke. But now i'm pretty intrigued. Would someone please explain further this Elfquest thing ? ( Paying special attention to those details that would help us having a better knowledge of the clan members ) Tomás Sánchez Tejero deckard@encomix.es ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:06:22 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi << I'm sorry, but I don't know where Kastelios is, so I don't know about that area. >> I assume, you don't have PWA2? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:06:18 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded << AFAIK there are only two groups of mystics already detailed in Mystara: those in Lhamsa, Glantri, who do not serve a particular immortal as you say but seem a lot like AD&D 1st edition monks to me, and those in Thothia, who serve the Night Spider and her daughter Aketheti - and with these we have no reason to assume their power comes from within rather than from Arachne Prime and the sphere of entropy. So on a sample of two it seems only 50% of the data supports 50% of your conclusion. >> And there are a few ideas about mystics in Sind. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:06:19 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim invasion << Thanks Ray. I just tried to summarize the tens of letters I exchanged with Herve over the matter. The main problem over the invasion of Alfheim is, IMO, the behaviour of Ilsundal: he didn't do anything to help his followers... actually he didn't do anything at all during WotI except siding with Ixion. >> Probably he had too many other plots running... :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:06:14 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI << You haven't read Sons of Azca? It's definitely one of my favourite Mystara books, and pretty central to the whole Hollow World setting (being the first major culture to be properly detailed). It actually leaves a lot more loose ends regarding Atruatzin than GAZ14, rather than clearing them up. >> O.k., can you explain, what an "atlatl" is? I've found it under the weapons, but there was no description. BTW, I think, "The Milenian Empire" is better and "Kingdom of Nithia" is the best of the three, even with all the mistakes. (But I have this Dragon Mag...) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:06:23 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps of Savage Baronies << Khan, What are you using? I can't get it to open with anything I have. Deepest thanks to Lord Vaken for posting the files. >> I tried the MS Explorer (it didn't work, of course :-> ), Win95 Imaging, Kai's Photo Soap, Micrografx Window Draw, but no chance. The solution was Micrografx Photo Magic. I hope you have it. I got it for free, when I bought my computer. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:06:22 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim invasion << It is a major premise of the description of Rafiel that he is indeed able to fool the Entropics into believing that he is one of them. Furthermore, Loki has most of the Nordic Immortals fooled into believing that he is not an Entropic. There must be something about the home planes of these two Immortals that allows them to pull of these scams. >> Sphere is not alignment. And there is the possibility of changing, at least it's mentioned in the description of Loki. Who can remember the cycles of the spheres as described in "Tall Tales of the Wee Folk"? This might explain some points. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:06:17 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil << Humm, why would undead be representing chaos? They are for most part unchanging and "live" much longer than normal being. Wouldn't that make them more lawful? While living people, at least the humans, generally try to change their enviroment to suit themself, should that be consider as more chaoic? >> Very interesting point. We should discuss that. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 14:44:04 +0100 From: Staffan Johansson Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI At 08:06 1997-12-06 EST, JamugaKhan wrote: >O.k., can you explain, what an "atlatl" is? I've found it under the weapons, >but >there was no description. IIRC, it's a wooden stick with a groove in it, used as a lever when throwing spears. Staffan Johansson (d96sj@efd.lth.se) Thoughts good! Slogans bad! Thoughts good! Slogans bad! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:50:04 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Survival Guides << I was at the bookstore doing my weekly shopping and went ahead and bought the Player's and DM Survival Guides for Mystara. Has anybody else gotten these? Some cute stuff for the first timer but I did like the maps in the Player's that look like maps of Karamiekos, Darokin and Glantri characters would carry and the samples of elven, dwarven and magical script from the DM Guide. The Deck of Spheres was an interesting addition, too. Well, guess I'm completely in search of the old modules and accessories now since I've gotten every peice of AD&D Mystara material. >> You poor guy! It's really difficult to get the whole old stuff. I managed to get most of them (not complete), but it was a long-lasting and expensive process. It might be a good idea to look in the internet. There was a newsgroup, if I could only remember what the name was. I purchased some products this way in 1995. It could be "news:rec.games.marketplace". Jamuga Khan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:13:23 EST From: Ambreville Subject: Re: [Mystara] [ADMIN] The List has a New Home! Wohoo! :) Bruce Heard ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 17:23:07 +0100 From: Staffan Johansson Subject: Re: [Mystara] Survival Guides At 10:50 1997-12-06 EST, JamugaKhan wrote: >be a good idea to look in the internet. There was a newsgroup, if I could only >remember what the name was. I purchased some products this way in 1995. >It could be "news:rec.games.marketplace". For RPGs, the correct newsgroup would be rec.games.frp.marketplace. Placing ads (either to buy and sell) in any other newsgroups (rgf.dnd, rgf.misc, rgf.whatever) is the same as inviting people to flame you. Staffan Johansson (d96sj@efd.lth.se) Thoughts good! Slogans bad! Thoughts good! Slogans bad! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:32:49 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI << IIRC, it's a wooden stick with a groove in it, used as a lever when throwing spears. >> What damage, what ranges? BTW, what's the meaning of the acronym "IIRC"? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:32:50 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: [Mystara] Red Steel A question to all: Red Steel is a material lighter and stronger than steel, at least the normal mystaran steel. Modern RW steel might be similar. So it's a good material to forge strong and light weapons. This is true for swords, but what is with other weapons? Is a Red Steel-headed arrow better or worse than a normal? And what's with the weapons of the clerics? Maces and warhammers are blunt weapons and hurt through impact. As usual the look was directed only to swords. Therefore I declare the discussion opened. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 97 12:16:03 EST From: Dave Brohman Subject: Re: [Mystara] Survival Guides Galwylin writes: > I was at the bookstore doing my weekly shopping and went ahead and > bought the Player's and DM Survival Guides for Mystara. Has anybody > else gotten these? Some cute stuff for the first timer but I did like > the maps in the Player's that look like maps of Karamiekos, Darokin and > Glantri characters would carry and the samples of elven, dwarven and > magical script from the DM Guide. The Deck of Spheres was an > interesting addition, too. Yeah, I got those a couple years ago. Your assesment of them is pretty much the same as mine. Good for a first-timer but not a lot for a more experienced gamer, save for a completist. I liked the Deck of the Spheres too. It is like a Deck of Many Things with different cards, but it seems a lot more dangerous than the DoMT. Even many of the "good" cards have "bad" side effects and the "bad" cards a REALLY "bad". I liked the maps as well, I photocopied them onto parchment-looking paper and gave copies to my players (well, the PCs actually bought them). It got a good laugh 'cos I ran them through my printer and put "Printed by Joshuan Gallidox, Printer, Mirros" on the backs. I also ran off some copies on normal papaer for myslef so that I can write, draw and make notes on them. The only bugger is taht they are all at different scales. Does anyone use the Fame & Fortune cards? I haven't used them myself but I might if anyone can give me some advice, suggestions or horror-stories realted to their use. Later. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Brohman E-Mail : dbrohman@chat.carleton.ca Carleton University "Dogs are not like cats, who amusingly tolerate humans only until someone comes up with a tin-opener that can be operated with a paw." - Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 18:54:31 +0100 From: Staffan Johansson Subject: [Mystara] Atlatl (was: Atruaghin in WotI) At 11:32 1997-12-06 EST, JamugaKhan wrote: ><< IIRC, it's a wooden stick with a groove in it, used as a lever when > throwing spears. >> > >What damage, what ranges? I *know* I've seen it in one of my books, but I can't find it now. It's not Complete Fighter's HB, nor is it Combat & Tactics. I think the damage remained the same (using Javelins), the RoF became 2/3 (I remember this because it was a weird RoF. BTW, I think it should be 1 - the use of the Atlatl doesn't slow down the RoF much when we're talking 1-minute rounds.), and the range was either 4/8/12 or 3/6/9 (in PHB terms, not C&T). >BTW, what's the meaning of the acronym "IIRC"? If I Recall Correctly, IIRC. :-) Staffan Johansson (d96sj@efd.lth.se) Thoughts good! Slogans bad! Thoughts good! Slogans bad! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:03:35 EST From: Dleggend Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded In a message dated 97-12-05 05:44:46 EST, you write: << 'd say Thac0 as Priest, myself, as their primary discipline is in Martial Arts. The revised desc I've got for them (D&D terms) leaves them with the Thac0 of fighters, as they are essentially a subdiscipline of the fighter class.>> I pick the thief thac0 because I find them to be similar to thiefs. I don't think they should fight as good as fighters, but possible better then priest. << What xp tables are you using for them? And are you keeping the same damage tables, etc? >> Their xp is the same as the fighter, and when you look at the 2nd ed rules, the xp tables are the same for the fighters as in d&d. I am also keeping the damage table the same because ad&d and d&d weopons do the same damage. Therefor way should the Mystic damage table change? Just my opinion Dleggend http://members.aol.com/dleggend/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:40:15 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel > >A question to all: > >Red Steel is a material lighter and stronger than steel, at least the normal >mystaran steel. Modern RW steel might be similar. So it's a good material >to forge strong and light weapons. This is true for swords, but what is with >other weapons? Is a Red Steel-headed arrow better or worse than a normal? >And what's with the weapons of the clerics? Maces and warhammers are >blunt weapons and hurt through impact. As usual the look was directed only >to swords. Hmmm....I'd say the benefit for arrows and crossbow bolts with Red Steel tips is that they would be lighter, and thus could travel farther (if I am not mistaken - I don't have the books with me here - Red Steel is half the weight and three times the price of normal steel). So we could say projectiles made from Red Steel might go twice as far is they weigh half as much (I'm not a physics major, so I might be wrong, but let's just use that as an example for simplicity's sake for now, this is a fantasy world, after all). As for blunt weapons, the main benefit of Red Steel is that it's lighter, but don't forget that Red Steel can also hit creatures that would normally require a +1 weapon to hit them (I KNOW I read this in one of the books - can't remeber where, possibly in the Dragon articles). Anyway, Red Steel is a great reward for players because it's lighter - allowing them to carry extra equipment - my players swear by it now, after they rolled a bunch of cinnabryl-crazed Hulean raiders. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:51:53 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel JamugaKhan pontificated: > > A question to all: > > Red Steel is a material lighter and stronger than steel, at least the normal > mystaran steel. Modern RW steel might be similar. So it's a good material > to forge strong and light weapons. This is true for swords, but what is with > other weapons? Is a Red Steel-headed arrow better or worse than a normal? > And what's with the weapons of the clerics? Maces and warhammers are > blunt weapons and hurt through impact. As usual the look was directed only > to swords. If the red steel makes the blunt weapons head, or arrow head too light, a good weaponsmith could probably make a weapon with lead inside and red steel outside. Therefore take advantage of the strength of the red steel and still retain the weight for the impact. John Yu - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 15:26:00 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Survival Guides Thanks for the simpathy, JK!! ;) Oh, I've already discovered news:rec.games.frp.marketplace, as my banking account and bookshelves can swear to. For anyone interested, there are also some good vendors with websites that I've discovered. In most cases you'll pay less for an older module than you will a new one today which is great for Mystara lovers! JamugaKhan wrote: > > You poor guy! It's really difficult to get the whole old stuff. I managed to > get most > of them (not complete), but it was a long-lasting and expensive process. It > might > be a good idea to look in the internet. There was a newsgroup, if I could only > remember what the name was. I purchased some products this way in 1995. > It could be "news:rec.games.marketplace". - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:40:45 EST From: Dleggend Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded In a message dated 97-12-06 13:19:09 EST, you write: << I was just curious. I am changing the table, myself, as the damage levels are too unbalancing to make for a good class (a 16th level Mystic does 4 atks of 3d12 each: min/max dmg= 12 to 144 points of damage/round; 36th level fighter with a +5 normal sword, maximum attacks/rd= 30-65 points of damage per round. That's not factoring in Weapon Mastery, which- presuming a GM for the fighter, which is like 3d6+2 or something; don't have my books- raises his max dmg to 20-80 pts/rd). Pretty unbalancing (IMO) to have a Mystic with all his abilities and damage and AC to do more damage at 16th level than a 36th level fighter. >> Even though 16th level Mystic does alot of damage there is only a very few or possable only one (up to the DM). Besides to raise a level higher then 9, the mystic has to find another and defeat him or her in order to gain the level. Therefor they will take longer to advance. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:50:27 EST From: Dleggend Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded In a message dated 97-12-06 13:19:09 EST, you write: << Then you should go with the Priest Thac0, because at higher levels they fight much better than Rogues. (2/3 as opposed to the Rogues 1/2). >> I agree in the long run priest have better Thac0. A hard choice. better thac0 at start were Mystics are weak or better Thac0 at the end? Dleggend http://members.aol.com/dleggend/index.html ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #221 ***************************** mystara-digest Monday, December 8 1997 Volume 02 : Number 222 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:16:59 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel << As for blunt weapons, the main benefit of Red Steel is that it's lighter, but don't forget that Red Steel can also hit creatures that would normally require a +1 weapon to hit them (I KNOW I read this in one of the books - can't remeber where, possibly in the Dragon articles). >> O.k., but this makes a Red Steel mace to something like a policeman's club. I play a cleric and I wouldn't like to fight with such a weapon. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:16:55 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] ToL - What are the missing three tribe of Ilsundal? << I did some research reading Glantri:KOM and Karameikos:KOA, of the missing three, one of them is definitely Erewan, the trouble is that their treekeeper Lady Eleesea (N W10) is currently suffering from a disease cause by the touch of a Heucuva summoned by Alphatians in the WOTI. The Book doesn't mention if the tree was destroyed during the Meteor Crash of 1006 a.c., I do believe that an Erewan Artifact, a spear called Spellslayer was crafted from a branch of the ToL. In Karameikos:KOA it mentions that Vyalia came from the first Elven migration, and that the Calarii came during Karameikos Dark Age. >> I don't believe it: The Erewans are a former part of the Erendyl clan. Why should they have a mother tree? The Callarii were part of Mealiden's migration, according to GAZ 5, and have probably a mother tree. This was indeed during the Dark Age of Traladara. The history of the Vyalias is a mystery, but the Gazetteer states that the elves came to the region later known as Thyatis and fled northward (with the exception of the Callarii). It can be assumed that the Vyalias decided to stay in Thyatis. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 00:22:17 +0100 From: Staffan Johansson Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded At 17:50 1997-12-06 EST, Dleggend wrote: IIn a message dated 97-12-06 13:19:09 EST, you write: ><< Then you should go with the Priest Thac0, because at higher levels they ffight much better than Rogues. (2/3 as opposed to the Rogues 1/2). >> >I agree in the long run priest have better Thac0. AA hard choice. better thac0 at start were Mystics are weak or better Thac0 at >the end? The only level where Rogues have better THAC0 than Priests is 3rd. Then again, I smooth out Priest THAC0, so they get one level without THAC0 boost, then two levels with. In the table, it'd turn the last instance of each number into than number-1 (20/20/19/18/18/17...) Staffan Johansson (d96sj@efd.lth.se) Thoughts good! Slogans bad! Thoughts good! Slogans bad! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:08:24 -0600 From: ccosman@huntingdon.edu (Cecil Cosman) Subject: Re: [Mystara]Kubbits and the HW in general I finally got all my stuff unpacked Friday 'cause I had a new player interested in trying the game out. I run a Pirate Camp set in the HW and the new player was interested in playing a Kubbit character. I came across the oddest thing while researching them. They have absolutly no reference in the PWA's.. well not in the 2 I've read through anyhow. The only source I've been able to come up with is just the stuff in the HW box set. All other HW races are covered in the PWA's... Any thoughts as to why this one was left out and how about we develop them eh? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:44:24 -0500 (EST) From: rdroe@iupui.edu Subject: [Mystara] The Old Stuff! I don't know if you have heard of it or not, but go to www.hitpointe.com It's got the old stuff and if they don't they will try and find it for you. Just an idea I got some old Forgotten Realms stuff from them and Red Steel and Savage Baronies. Just trying to point you in the only direction I know. Robert D'eath Roe aka Dr. Konijn ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:48:51 -0500 (EST) From: rdroe@iupui.edu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, JamugaKhan wrote: >A question to all: >Red Steel is a material lighter and stronger than steel, at least the normal mystaran steel. Modern RW steel might be similar. So it's a good material to forge strong and light weapons. This is true for swords, but what is with other weapons? Is a Red Steel-headed arrow better or worse than a normal? And what's with the weapons of the clerics? Maces and warhammers are blunt weapons and hurt through impact. As usual the look was directed only to swords. I would think that less weight would ruin the damage a light mace or flail would do, since the weapon wouldn't have as much force or momentum or whatever. There's my two cents, I bought some penny candies with the rest so it'll have to do. >Therefore I declare the discussion opened. >Jamuga Khan >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:34:51 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI In a message dated 97-12-06 13:17:34 EST, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: << O.k., can you explain, what an "atlatl" is? I've found it under the weapons, but there was no description. >> In game terms, an atlatl is a stick used to throw javelins with greater range and force than an unaided human hand can. In _Unearthed Arcana_ it increases the range of a javelin from 2/4/6 to 3/6/9. I am really surprised that no later official AD&D source incorporates that information. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 02:04:58 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded It would seem that converting a Mystic to AD&D would be a fairly straightforward process. Here is how I would do it, with the _D&D Rules Cyclopedia_ handy: Ability Score Requirements: Strength 12+, Dexterity 15+, Wisdom 15+. These requirements are slightly higher than thos given in D&D. Prime Requisite: Strength. +10% bonus to XP if strength is 16+. Hit Dice: As Priest of equal level. Maximum Level: 16. Advancement to levels 10-16 requires challenge combat, and advancement beyond level 16 is impossible. Equipment: Mystics may use any weapons but may not use armor, shields, or other protective equipment. They may not specialize in weapons but may otherwise use any magical item usable by Fighter or Thief. Restrictions: Must be of lawful alignment. Must donate 10% of treasure to their cloister. May not retain more treasure than they can carry, and must turn over any treasure to cloister on demand. Must never violate his sworn word. XP Table: As Paladin/Ranger Saving Throws: As Warrior of same level Thieving Skills: Find/Remove Traps, Climb Walls, Move Silently, and Hide in Shadows. Base skills as Thief, bonus points as Bard, including adjustments for "No Armor". Number of Attacks: 1 attack per round at levels 1-4, 3/2 attacks per round at levels 5-8, and 2 attacks per round (maximum possible) at level 9+. All other data can be taken from the _D&D Rules Cyclopedia_ without change. This approach would be the most literal translation of a D&D Mystic into AD&D terms. Anyone who is feeling particularly ambitious may wish to design this class for use with _Skills and Powers_; variations might include giving a bonus for accepting the THAC0 of a Priest or Rogue or charging extra character points for additional thieving skills such as Hear Noise. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 02:39:40 -0500 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: Re: [Mystara]Kubbits and the HW in general Cecil Cosman wrote: >I finally got all my stuff unpacked Friday 'cause I had a new player interested in trying the game out. I run a Pirate Camp set in the HW and the new player was interested in playing a Kubbit character. I came across the oddest thing while researching them. They have absolutly no reference in the PWA's.. well not in the 2 I've read through anyhow. The only source I've been able to come up with is just the stuff in the HW box set. All other HW races are covered in the PWA's... Any thoughts as to why this one was left out and how about we develop them eh? Actually, the Blacklore Elves aren't included in the PWA's either, and neither are the Hutaakans of the Hollow World. The only explanations I can think of for this are that they were left out for space reasons or they were simply forgotten. Michael. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 02:41:17 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] BeastHunter And CoolHands : Cartoon Characters ? In a message dated 97-12-06 17:44:07 EST, deckard@encomix.es writes: << I thought those cartoon comparisons were all a joke. But now i'm pretty intrigued. Would someone please explain further this Elfquest thing ? ( Paying special attention to those details that would help us having a better knowledge of the clan members ) >> Okay, here is the scoop on the Long Runners -- the characters of Beasthunter, Coolhands, and Starwatcher are obviously based on the characters of Cutter, Leetah, and Skywise from the Elfquest comics by Wendy and Richard Pini. A reading of the Elfquest comics would probably be helpful in depicting the Long Runner clan of Alfheim. Coolhands was made to originate from Belcadiz because the Belcadiz Elves of Glantri bear a superficial resemblance to Leetah's Sun Folk -- both groups of Elves are short and dark-skinned. As near as I can tell, no explicit connection is drawn between Coolhands and any of the present Belcadiz Elves in Glantri, and you would probably look in vain for any connection between these Elves and the Sun Folk Elves of Elfquest. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 02:57:56 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara]Kubbits and the HW in general In a message dated 97-12-06 19:51:45 EST, ccosman@huntingdon.edu writes: << Any thoughts as to why this one was left out and how about we develop them eh? >> Most likely they did not get involved as a people in events outside their valley. Given their tiny size, the Kubitts more than any other people would have good reason to stay out of the way of bigger folk. But I would love to see somebody create more information about them. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 16:44:00 +0800 From: Glenn Butcher Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded Kaviyd rambled (Kaviyd@aol.com): >It would seem that converting a Mystic to AD&D would be a fairly straightforward >process. Here is how I would do it, with the _D&D Rules Cyclopedia_ handy: Without the Cyclopedia handy, this is roughly how I would translate a monk or mystic into Glaive rules. The player can always customise the character by taking somewhat different skills. Glaive is a way of making up characters under AD&D which is very similiar to skills and powers. The difference is characters may choose abilities from other classes at increased cost, and the result should end up balanced. Monk (based on warrior class) Ability: Cost (out of 100) Hit Dice: d8 Free for warrior THAC0 improvement 2/3 Free for warrior Armour: none -24 Weapons: none -16 Shields: none -5 AC improvement 1/level 25 Increased movement +3, twice 16 (base movement under AD&D of 18) Attack progression 100% 30 (ie: 3/2 attacks at 7th, 2 at 15th etc) Unarmed combat specialisation 35 (includes automatic gaining of mastery) Climb walls 3.75 (more expensive 'cause thief ability) Move silently 7.5 (ditto) Hide in Shadows 7.5 (ditto) Progession 30% 7.5 (grants 30% of normal thief points) Lay on hands 15 (more expensive 'cause priest ability) Pass without trace 10.5 (ditto) Resist energy drain 12.6 (save at -4 to avoid, 15th level) Plus about 25 points of disadvantages. (must be lawful, must give treasure to cloister, must donate 10%, mustn't break word). Any comments? http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/glaive/ - -- "For a copper!" [The battle cry of Lynard the fire elemaster] mailto:knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au mailto:glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au Home page: http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 05:40:59 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Survival Guides << In most cases you'll pay less for an older module than you will a new one today which is great for Mystara lovers! >> Yes, when you're living in America. (I'm not!) Jamuga Khan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 10:04:18 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara]Kubbits and the HW in general In einer eMail vom 07.12.97 01:51:45 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << I finally got all my stuff unpacked Friday 'cause I had a new player interested in trying the game out. I run a Pirate Camp set in the HW and the new player was interested in playing a Kubbit character. I came across the oddest thing while researching them. They have absolutly no reference in the PWA's.. well not in the 2 I've read through anyhow. The only source I've been able to come up with is just the stuff in the HW box set. All other HW races are covered in the PWA's... Any thoughts as to why this one was left out and how about we develop them eh? >> They are just one of the two greatest known secrets of the HW. (I know, that this is a paradoxon.) About the Lighthouse and the Kubitt is literally nothing known to the HW public. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:40:05 EST From: Dleggend Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded In a message dated 97-12-06 19:01:55 EST, you write: << The only level where Rogues have better THAC0 than Priests is 3rd. Then again, I smooth out Priest THAC0, so they get one level without THAC0 boost, then two levels with. In the table, it'd turn the last instance of each number into than number-1 (20/20/19/18/18/17...) Staffan Johansson (d96sj@efd.lth.se) Thoughts good! Slogans bad! Thoughts good! Slogans bad! I was thinking why not give them a figher's Thac0. In D&D they have the same Thac0 as fighters and besides the max level is 16 not 36. At 16 lvl their Thac0 is 5 and not all mystics reach that level. Besides they are trained in the art of fighting. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:34:35 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [Mystara] RPG Survey >Do you like >* no classes at all, building a character from skills >What is your preferred magic system >* freeform, with possibility of casting any spell at any time if mana oor spell limit is not exceeded >Do you think that >* no levels/XP are needed at all - just a system for raising skills >How should a character's personality be defined? >* no formal definition - personality is how the character is played >Accessories >What kind of accessories do you prefer (OK to answer several) ** detailing campaign world areas >Do you want for the accessories to >* be highly detailed, covering everything possible on the topic they aare addressing (e.g., a city description takes five pages) >Should accessories contain >* specific game information on the relevant topic ("Althon is a 118th-level LN Mage with 38 HP, and his stats are ...") >Do you like fluff in accessories (like many TSR ones) >* yes, if it is useful to the topic (like giving a 'native' point of vview) >What would you pay (US$) for a good softcover accessory book, supposing it >meets your criteria above? Dependent on size >Campaign worlds >Do you like worlds which have >* cultures much like the real-world ones (Ars Magica's Mythic Europe) * cultures borrowing some elements from real-world ones (Mystara) * completely fictional cultures (Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun) All of the above >Do you think it's OK to model major campaign NPCs on real historical ffigures? Sure >Do you like campaigns to be large and expansive (Forgotten Realms), oor confined to a small area of the world (Dark Sun)? Large >Do you like worlds to be standard spherical planets, or all kinds of wweird shapes? Depends. Spheroid, usually. >Do you want >* the whole world to be highly detailed (officially that is) >What would you pay (US$) for a good campaign setting boxed set (suppose it >meets your criteria above)? $30 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 15:47:46 -0600 From: ccosman@huntingdon.edu (Cecil Cosman) Subject: Re: [Mystara]Kubbits and the HW in general Responding to the message of Sun, 07 Dec 1997 02:39:40 -0500 from Michael Ray Johnson : >Cecil Cosman wrote: >>I finally got all my stuff unpacked Friday 'cause I had a new player interested in trying the game out. I run a Pirate Camp set in the HW and >>the new player was interested in playing a Kubbit character. I came across >>the oddest thing while researching them. They have absolutly no reference >>in the PWA's.. well not in the 2 I've read through anyhow. The only source >>I've been able to come up with is just the stuff in the HW box set. All other HW races are covered in the PWA's... Any thoughts as to why this one >>was left out and how about we develop them eh? >Actually, the Blacklore Elves aren't included in the PWA's either, and neither >are the Hutaakans of the Hollow World. The only explanations I can think of >for this are that they were left out for space reasons or they were simply >forgotten. >Michael. >Well, if you read the entries you can find stuff for those... even the Gentle Folk have some info on them undersomething. I found it in the index. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 16:47:33 -0500 From: Aron Reif Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi At 08:06 AM 12/6/97 EST, you wrote: ><< I'm sorry, but I don't know where Kastelios is, so I don't know about that aarea. >> >I assume, you don't have PWA2? >Jamuga Khan >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." Well, I have it, but I haven't read it since I originally bought it, which was 4-5 years ago, so I tend to forget the details... Aron Reif areif@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 16:24:18 -0600 From: ccosman@huntingdon.edu (Cecil Cosman) Subject: Re: [Mystara]Kubbits and the HW in general Responding to the message of Sun, 7 Dec 1997 02:57:56 EST from Kaviyd : >In a message dated 97-12-06 19:51:45 EST, ccosman@huntingdon.edu writes: ><< Any thoughts as to why this one >was left out and how about we develop them eh? >> >Most likely they did not get involved as a people in events outside their valley. Given their tiny size, the Kubitts more than any other people would have good reason to stay out of the way of bigger folk. But I would love to see somebody create more information about them. Why not, The HW stuff hasn't been as developed as the KW stuff... they only did the millenians and the other one in the hw suppliments... how about some Hw racial development or something. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 97 10:19:00 -0500 From: Michael Southon Subject: Re[2]: [Mystara] More advice Good advice, but I for one have a small problem. Where the hell can I get WotI? Are there places in the US who still stock it? Even better, are there places in Australia? (Glen??). Leadryl Dracos ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: [Mystara] More advice Author: DALMONTE@SMTP (DM) {dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it} at !INTERNET Date: 05/12/97 17:40 At 02.46 05/12/96 -0800, Sheer wrote: >Continueing my previous request for advice. I am going to try to bring my campeign into some kind of sync with some of the more recently publiced events, namely the huge war between alphetia, glantri, and thyatis and the master of hule, though I will make it fit my admitedly skewed campeign. I have a lot of rule books and up to champions level D&D books as well as the Dawn of the Empires gazateer set, but I don't have much in the way of dealing with immortals or of the other lands on Mystara (except for the darokin set). Any advice on what I should get it I am goig to try and play out this campeign. As i told you in my previous post, i think your problems will be solved if u buy Wrath of the Immortals boxed set, which is invaluable if u want to play the Great War between Alphatia, Thyatis and Glantri. It also deals a lot with Immortals, so.... DM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 16:26:53 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara]Kubbits and the HW in general On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Cecil Cosman wrote: >I finally got all my stuff unpacked Friday 'cause I had a new player interested in trying the game out. I run a Pirate Camp set in the HW and the new player was interested in playing a Kubbit character. I came across the oddest thing while researching them. They have absolutly no reference in the PWA's.. well not in the 2 I've read through anyhow. The only source I've been able to come up with is just the stuff in the HW box set. All other HW races are covered in the PWA's... Any thoughts as to why this one was left out and how about we develop them eh? I think they were left out because they are as yet unknown among the other nations of the HW, living alone in their wilderness. There were a number of nations that were left out of the PWAs, likely as much due to space as the fact that they seem to have little interactions among the wider HW nations (Hutaaka is a notable one). - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 18:27:42 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [Mystara] The Admin is a Bonehead! [was :RPG Survey] Aieee! I can't believe I actually sent this thing to the whole list! Feel free to use this against me in the future... :) Leroy Van Camp III meandered fecklessly... >>Do you like >>* no classes at all, building a character from skills >>What is your preferred magic system >>* freeform, with possibility of casting any spell at any time if mana ooor spell limit is not exceeded >>Do you think that >>* no levels/XP are needed at all - just a system for raising skills >>How should a character's personality be defined? >>* no formal definition - personality is how the character is played >>Accessories >>What kind of accessories do you prefer (OK to answer several) *** detailing campaign world areas >>Do you want for the accessories to >>* be highly detailed, covering everything possible on the topic they aaare addressing (e.g., a city description takes five pages) >>Should accessories contain >>* specific game information on the relevant topic ("Althon is a 1118th-level LN Mage with 38 HP, and his stats are ...") >>Do you like fluff in accessories (like many TSR ones) >>* yes, if it is useful to the topic (like giving a 'native' point of vvview) >>What would you pay (US$) for a good softcover accessory book, supposing iit >>meets your criteria above? >Dependent on size >>Campaign worlds >>Do you like worlds which have >>* cultures much like the real-world ones (Ars Magica's Mythic Europe) * cultures borrowing some elements from real-world ones (Mystara) * completely fictional cultures (Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun) >All of the above >>Do you think it's OK to model major campaign NPCs on real historical fffigures? >Sure >>Do you like campaigns to be large and expansive (Forgotten Realms), ooor confined to a small area of the world (Dark Sun)? >Large >>Do you like worlds to be standard spherical planets, or all kinds of wwweird shapes? >Depends. Spheroid, usually. >>Do you want >>* the whole world to be highly detailed (officially that is) >>What would you pay (US$) for a good campaign setting boxed set (suppose iit >>meets your criteria above)? >$30 Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@io.com "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 21:09:41 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Admin is a Bonehead! [was :RPG Survey] Leroy, Need I remind you about over-quoting?? Muhahahahaha! - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:51:38 -0500 From: lordvalen@juno.com (Jakklyph Valen Kroe) Subject: [Mystara] Ark180.jpg problems I had the same problems with ark180.jpg; that is, only being able to open it in a specific viewer. I used Paint Shop Pro to fudge it, saving it in BMP format then re-converting it into JPG, and it worked. I have the file available to send if anyone would like to email me privately at LordValen@juno.com. Lord Valen On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:08:09 -0500 (EST) JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: IIn einer eMail vom 02.12.97 18:30:12 MEZ, schreiben Sie: ><< Khan you are missing map 180 >I will be glad to send it if you wish. >~(=Dleggend=> >Oh, I have Ark180. But it makes really trouble. Only one of four programs is >able to open it. >Jamuga Khan >(Obviously this stupid map never heard anything about the might of Jamug >Khan.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:08:02 -0500 From: lordvalen@juno.com (Jakklyph Valen Kroe) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maps?? I have the maps compressed into a ZIP file (including the *new* ark180.jpg), but the file is simply too large to be posted onto any website I have access to. Email me privately if you'd like the file. Lord Valen http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/1337 On Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:22:23 +0200 (EET) Aleksei Andrievski writes: >So, does anybody have those Savage Coast maps posted somewhere yet? I didn't see any URL. >***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - >but >** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon >us." >** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, >** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to >tread." >***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:20:51 -0500 From: lordvalen@juno.com (Jakklyph Valen Kroe) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel I submit that anytime the strength of a weapon comes into play (like when you're rolling to see if a blade breaks or something), Red Steel should be given an advantage. Similarly, anytime a material's hardness needs to be considered, it should also be given bonuses. However, where blunt weapons are concerned, there should be no difference. Use the (oversimple) analogy of wood and metal: if a wooden hammerhead of equal weight and balance to a metal hammerhead were used to strike an opponent, it would have the exact same effect. For piercing weapons, such as arrows or spears, I think only the quality of the head should count, as it shouldn't matter what material the head is made of as long as the PC makes the roll to hit. Just my opinion. Lord Valen http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/1337 (under construction) On Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:32:50 EST JamugaKhan writes: AA question to all: >Red Steel is a material lighter and stronger than steel, at least the normal >mystaran steel. Modern RW steel might be similar. So it's a good material >to forge strong and light weapons. This is true for swords, but what is with >other weapons? Is a Red Steel-headed arrow better or worse than a normal? >And what's with the weapons of the clerics? Maces and warhammers are blunt weapons and hurt through impact. As usual the look was directed only >to swords. >Therefore I declare the discussion opened. >Jamuga Khan >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:23:51 -0500 From: lordvalen@juno.com (Jakklyph Valen Kroe) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel Oops, my previous post is based on the assumption that the weights of Red Steel and normal steel are equal, which is obviously not the case. Use RW laws of physics to modify my previous argument!! Lord Valen http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/1337 On Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:40:15 -0500 (EST) au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) writes: >>A question to all: >>Red Steel is a material lighter and stronger than steel, at least the nnormal >>mystaran steel. Modern RW steel might be similar. So it's a good mmaterial >>to forge strong and light weapons. This is true for swords, but what iis with >>other weapons? Is a Red Steel-headed arrow better or worse than a nnormal? >>And what's with the weapons of the clerics? Maces and warhammers are blunt weapons and hurt through impact. As usual the look was directed oonly >>to swords. >Hmmm....I'd say the benefit for arrows and crossbow bolts with Red Steel >tips is that they would be lighter, and thus could travel farther (if I am >not mistaken - I don't have the books with me here - Red Steel is half the >weight and three times the price of normal steel). So we could say projectiles made from Red Steel might go twice as far is they weigh half >as much (I'm not a physics major, so I might be wrong, but let's just use >that as an example for simplicity's sake for now, this is a fantasy world, >after all). >As for blunt weapons, the main benefit of Red Steel is that it's lighter, >but don't forget that Red Steel can also hit creatures that would normally >require a +1 weapon to hit them (I KNOW I read this in one of the books - >can't remeber where, possibly in the Dragon articles). >Anyway, Red Steel is a great reward for players because it's lighter - allowing them to carry extra equipment - my players swear by it now, after >they rolled a bunch of cinnabryl-crazed Hulean raiders. >Geoff >-- >Geoff Gander, BA 97 >Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 03:40:48 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded the Thothian mystics are a crucial part of the plot of M5: Talons of Night ... they are the servants of Aketheti, Queen of Thothia and daughter of the Night Spider (Mystara's Lolth ... a minor immortal trapped on the Prime Material) ... they seem to be the guardians of Thothian recorded knowledge and religion and some of the more powerful ones are vampiric. M5 is one of the most interesting and best detailed of the high-level modules; it gives quite a bit of interesting ideas for isle of dawn adventures. m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >At 23.13 04/12/97 -0800, Matthew Levy wrote: AAAFAIK there are only two groups of mystics already detailed in Mystara: those in Lhamsa, Glantri, who do not serve a particular immortal as you say but seem a lot like AD&D 1st edition monks to me, and those in Thothia, who serve the Night Spider and her daughter Aketheti - and with these we have no reason to assume their power comes from within rather than from Arachne Prime and the sphere of entropy. So on a sample of two it seems only 50% of the data supports 50% of your conclusion. >There're lot of mystics in Sind (check CoM) and IIRC there's a group in Minrothad too. >BTW: where're the Thotian mystics mentioned? Some M module? >************** >Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com >DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:52:00 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Survival Guides On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Galwylin wrote: >I was at the bookstore doing my weekly shopping and went ahead and bought the Player's and DM Survival Guides for Mystara. Has anybody else gotten these? Some cute stuff for the first timer but I did like the maps in the Player's that look like maps of Karamiekos, Darokin and Glantri characters would carry and the samples of elven, dwarven and magical script from the DM Guide. The Deck of Spheres was an interesting addition, too. Well, guess I'm completely in search of the old modules and accessories now since I've gotten every peice of AD&D Mystara material. Blah... I made better maps myself with Campaign Cartographer... and they misspelled Mirros. The scripts are somewhat useful, though, as well as some handouts (like CLOC). Not really worth the money, though. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:54:06 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Nithia YESS!!! Lucky me! I found the Kingdom of Nithia accessory in my local gaming store's bargain bin! Isn't it a nice Christmas present for me! And quite useful, too, since there seems to be a lot going on with Nithia lately. Anyway, I saw a king named Khnemet-Ur mentioned in PWA1014 (the net almanac), but didn't find him in HWR2. Who is he? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:57:18 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Misspelled names Did anyone notice that as Mystara was developed, several city names were misspelled at some point and it stuck. Examples are Wongzhao Tsushao/Wongzhao Tsuhao (a city in Ochalea), and Leominster/Leminster (capital of Bellayne). While this is no big deal, it gets mildly annoying to explain just why a city is suddenly named differently. Oh yes, another example is Kelvin, which was often misspelled as Kelven (even in PWA1014, so almanac people, please check your sources and don't just copy them ;) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:00:10 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, JamugaKhan wrote: >BTW, I think, "The Milenian Empire" is better and "Kingdom of Nithia" is the best >of the three, even with all the mistakes. (But I have this Dragon Mag...) Er... mistakes? Could you by any chance tell me just what those mistakes are (I don't have that Dragon mag, neither am I likely to get it). ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:17:16 +0100 (MET) From: "Oystein H. Lund" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 CRlPTONITE@aol.com wrote: TThe councils of 36 level mages in Thyatis and Alphatia are driving me crazy. 1000 of them in Alphatia and I believe its 250 in Thyatis are obviously too Well, I use a council of a thousand 36th level wizards in my campaign - - and a council of 10 000 plots, as well. There's all those of wanting a seat, those wanting more power, those wanting the Empress OFF the throne (Bloody women, butting in everywhere, now in my homeland, we know how to keep them in line), Prince Zandor's supporters (some crossover between this and the last group,) Alphaks Traitors (Sure, the demon wants to destroy this nation, but who cares ? He's going to make me more powerful..), The Ancients (I remember when that young squirt Alphaks got his first tooth), the Progressives (We must move forward into a new, more enlightened era, free from outdated custom ! (As lon as those Ancients don't hear me disparaging the traditions and blow me up for it..)) and so on. Admittedly, it can become somewhat Pratchettian at times (Two wizards can get on each other's nerves across a football field. Lengthwize.), but believe me, it sure feels tense some times, when three or four factions in the council are about two wrong words away from civil war in the Council Chambers... (Think Tsuruanni and The Great Game, by Feist.) Wizards, at least in my campaign (and in some of the official supplements,) don't need to run on adventures to gain levels and power. Just research. And given the demographics of Alphatia (Consider how many are born wizardlings) - it's not unreasonable to assume a huge council. One that is not very effective in any offensive war - for take your eyes off the Great Game for too long, and you neverknow who'll stab you in the back next. On the other hand, in defense the Council can't be beat - invaders on the shoreline is about the only thing that could make the majority of the council pull together. And even then, some would try to cut a deal with the invasion force to gain something in the Council... _______________________________________________________________________ | Oeystein H. Lund ,kj160@lhg.hib.no | |"I still consider Southern California the best evidence we have that | | not only do aliens exist, but that they are here already. " | |_____________________________________________________________________| ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #222 ***************************** mystara-digest Tuesday, December 9 1997 Volume 02 : Number 223 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 05:23:27 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] ToL - What are the missing three tribe of Ilsundal? while y'all are on the topic of trees of life and elvish clan history, has anybody tried to tie in the various minor elven communities that are scattered all over? there's the icevale elves, gentle folk, schattenalfen, and blacklore elves, of course, but there's also elves on the savage coast, possibly elves still on Davania, elves in Norwold and elves on the Isle of Dawn ... there's one clan near the land of Aran (upriver from Thothia in the highlands) ... in my campaign these are called the Awari and they range into Dunadale as well and even down into Septentriona. Another, more civilized clan of elves (the Nyneti) live in the forest around Caerdwicca at the southern end of the Isle, where they have several communes of some size: Nynet, Noben, Arban, Erom, Zotim, and Arlon ... of course, my Mystara is distinctively a-canonical in many respects, though i am working on ways of unobtrusively integrating these into the larger whole ... one premise i work from is the idea that Mystara is the chronological predecessor of every other D&D or AD&D world, and therefore the origin of those monster and humanoid races which appear in various planes. on this theory, the illithids are a later offshoot of the kopru, and the githyanki may even have once been mystarans. also, i have a solution to the long standing problem of the illogical explanation usually given for drow skin color, as well as the relationship between shadow elves and drow: the drow were elves who stayed above ground in the Mystaran deserts following the great rain of fire, and developed melanin-rich skin to resist the powerful cancer-causing radiations present; they shared some cultural similarities with shadow elves, but it was only much later that they began exploring underground for various political and economic reasons ... in my campaign there is a large group of drow in the deserts, hills, and plains of the southern portion of the isle of dawn, where they bully local elves, dwarves, humans, and bugbears and maintain a strong alliace with the aranea of the Isle (the two groups collectively are currently under Thyatin imperial protectorate), and there are possibly other drow in Davania's great deserts. i don't know whether others think this is too wild ... it actually doesn't throw off the campaign very much since the drow are not very powerful in the grand scheme of things ... but i am also wary of "overpopulating" Mystara by including EVERY AD&D humanoid race as well as all those peculiar to Mystara ... for instance I have already added in Xvarts, Tasloi, Tabaxi, Derro, Jermlaines, and others that perhaps were not meant to be included (but who definitely spice things up). anyway, if anybody wants suggestions on where to stick these extra races in so they don't throw things off, i'd be happy to give them, but i understand if what i present is considered too un-canon. peace, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:57:54 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Admin is a Bonehead! [was :RPG Survey] On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >Aieee! I can't believe I actually sent this thing to the whole list! >Feel free to use this against me in the future... :) >Leroy Van Camp III meandered fecklessly... What's more, you've sent it all a second time with your apology... BAN HIM!!! :) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:10:40 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re[3]: [Mystara] More advice The question about where to buy old stuff comes up often. - - Crazy Egor's See my web page http://people.delphi.com/ndaskal/dndindex.html for contact info, although I think they now have a SSSLLLOOOWWW running web site as well. - - Sage's Guild http://www.sagesguild.com/ - - Dragon's Trove http://www.dragontrove.com/ Don't we have a FAQ for this list? Might it be a good idea to add out-of-print vendor infor to the FAQ? Or is it already there? >Good advice, but I for one have a small problem. Where the hell can I get WotI? Are there places in the US who still stock it? Even better, are there places in Australia? (Glen??). >Leadryl Dracos ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:14:35 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re: [Mystara] Misspelled names "clanmaster", "Clanmaster", "Clan Master", or "Clan master". Sloppy (no?) editing was a frequent feature of TSR products which got worse around the time the Gaz series started. >Did anyone notice that as Mystara was developed, several city names were misspelled at some point and it stuck. Examples are Wongzhao Tsushao/Wongzhao Tsuhao (a city in Ochalea), and Leominster/Leminster (capital of Bellayne). While this is no big deal, it gets mildly annoying to explain just why a city is suddenly named differently. Oh yes, another example is Kelvin, which was often misspelled as Kelven (even in PWA1014, so almanac people, please check your sources and don't just copy them ;) >***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but >** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." >** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." >***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:27:56 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Misspelled names One explanation is that there are no standardized spelling for those names. One example would be Shakespeare's name, which himself spells defferently from time to time. Aleksei Andrievski pontificated: >Did anyone notice that as Mystara was developed, several city names were misspelled at some point and it stuck. Examples are Wongzhao Tsushao/Wongzhao Tsuhao (a city in Ochalea), and Leominster/Leminster (capital of Bellayne). While this is no big deal, it gets mildly annoying to explain just why a city is suddenly named differently. Oh yes, another example is Kelvin, which was often misspelled as Kelven (even in PWA1014, so almanac people, please check your sources and don't just copy them ;) >***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but >** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." >** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." >***************************** - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:34:43 -0500 From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithia Congrats! One warning however: watch for the contradictions. I think the editor of this particular supplement must have been sleeping or something. It has huge contradictions even within its own material, let alone with any other information that has been published about Nithia. And that's just the content errors. The typos were actually painful. (I speak as an English major on this point. Typos tend to jump out at me now. I'm not sure its a good thing though.... Oh, for those blissful days of ignorance!) ;) ray Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >YESS!!! Lucky me! I found the Kingdom of Nithia accessory in my local gaming store's bargain bin! Isn't it a nice Christmas present for me! And quite useful, too, since there seems to be a lot going on with Nithia lately. Anyway, I saw a king named Khnemet-Ur mentioned in PWA1014 (the net almanac), but didn't find him in HWR2. Who is he? >***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but >** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." >** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." >***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 12:47:13 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: [Mystara] Mystara revival inquiry(Grand Prix: San Jose report) I have returned from SJ, and my talk with a member of WOTC is on my webpage, view it at members.tripod.com/~mktriton/index.html At 09.55 05/12/97 PST, George Valencia wrote: >>I think that Darokin was kind to the Shadow Elves because: 1) They feared such an aggressive neighbor right inside their territtory >Not true, They stood ready for war when Aengmor threatened to take the entire Canolbarth forest in 1010 A.C., Aengmor stood down. Fabrizio wrote: I don't think that right after WotI Darokin would have been able to defend itself from a Shadow Elf attack, but that's just my opinion. Maybe you've not read the novel "Son of Dawn", it's a good book on Darokin-Aengmor relationship set in 1010. My Response: Darokin was allied to the new-formed WDL at that time, it would have gotten support from displace Alfheim Elves living in the Southern Canolbarth Forest, were the Gentle Folk elves once lived at. so Darokin was ready. And no, i haven't read Son of dawn completely yet, I'm reading Black Vessel, and Dragonlance's Day of the Tempest. >Darokin Philosophy is "There always a customer anywhere in the world" of course, they would try to open trade with Aengmor(old Alfheim) although, the Shadow Elves could get items from a place they trust such as the City of the Stars. Fabrizio wrote: But Tanadaleyo's dream is to declare indipendence from City of the Stars, so she needs to find some other source of supplies. my response: who would you rather trust after conquering a land, after over a millenia of being underground, your new neighbors once allied to the once conquered land(Darokin), or your old contacts(city of the stars)? becoming independent in the way of that you think means a revolution not being granted full autonomy like thyatis did for Lord Stefan, in which he receive total control of Traladara for a price, hmmm? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:20:58 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI On Sat, 6 Dec 1997 JamugaKhan wrote: ><< You haven't read Sons of Azca? It's definitely one of my favourite >Mystara books, and pretty central to the whole Hollow World setting (being the first major culture to be properly detailed). It actually leaves a lot more loose ends regarding Atruatzin than GAZ14, rather than clearing them up. >> >BTW, I think, "The Milenian Empire" is better and "Kingdom of Nithia" is the best >of the three, even with all the mistakes. (But I have this Dragon Mag...) While we're talking about this, I did like Kingdom of Nithia a lot too. In fact, all three HWRs were good, although I'm not too familiar with the Milenian Empire (yet). Incidentally, I didn't really notice the "mistakes" in the Nithian book until someone on the list pointed them out to me, and when I tried to make a timeline from the fragments of history in the book. But Sons of Azca is the best thanks to the Atruatzin/Quetzalcoatl myth, which I really like. :-) Thorf. ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 23:48:18 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil Hi! >I consider the life process as lawful because of the path it takes.=20 >Your born, you live awhile, you die. I believe it's one of the most >lawful things known. =20 But doesn=B4t that also hold true for every thing? It is created, it is, it= is destroyed? So everything is lawful in this definition, isn=B4t it? Even undead?=20 >Adding another step causes it to become chaotic >(or evil, if you prefer) since it no longer follows a set path. =20 Okay, but then also Immortals would be chaotic, wouldn=B4t they?=20 ************************************************************ =20 Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 23:55:15 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded Hi! >I was wondering about converting the Mystic Class for D&D to AD&D. I= haven't >seen a AD&D class like it.=20 Hmm, just take the 1st Ed. monk, it=B4s very much like the mystic, and I= always had the feeling that mystics were the experiment to get them back! >Fighter as they are train to fight, mage as they are >trained to manuplate "chi" (or Ka in Japanese, I think). The=20 >chi aspect is what seperates them from normal fighters. I view >chi as the same force as the mana that magic-users utilize. Except >magic-users use that energy in bursts to power their spells,=20 >while mystics flow small amount of that energy >through their bodies continuously to improve their "inner >strength".=20 You could also look up Oriental Adventures. There is a monk-class descriped!= And many classes have chi-powers, which I kind of liked! ************************************************************ =20 Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:02:56 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Survival Guides On Sat, 06 Dec 1997 15:26:00 -0600 Galwylin writes: >Thanks for the simpathy, JK!! ;) >Oh, I've already discovered news:rec.games.frp.marketplace, as my banking account and bookshelves can swear to. For anyone interested, there are also some good vendors with websites that I've discovered. In >most cases you'll pay less for an older module than you will a new one today which is great for Mystara lovers! Do any of them have copies of X10? That's the #1 roleplaying item on my Hanukhah list. Too bad the only Mystara products available in Mobile are PWA 2 and 3. >JamugaKhan wrote: >>You poor guy! It's really difficult to get the whole old stuff. I >managed to >>get most >>of them (not complete), but it was a long-lasting and expensive >process. It >>might >>be a good idea to look in the internet. There was a newsgroup, if I >could only >>remember what the name was. I purchased some products this way in >1995. >>It could be "news:rec.games.marketplace". >-- >Galwylin >Email: galwylin@airnet.net >Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ >Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! >http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:52:47 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [Mystara]Kubbits and the HW in general >><< Any thoughts as to why this one >>was left out and how about we develop them eh? >> >>Most likely they did not get involved as a people in events outside their valley. Given their tiny size, the Kubitts more than any other people would have good reason to stay out of the way of bigger folk. But I would love to see somebody create more information about them. I just happend to have my PC's take a trip through the valley of the Kubbits and had an old player show up. After doing a little research on them we came up with a great reason for them to leave their valley. A Sexist kubbit won't last long in their matriarchal society. So he was advised to adventure with the passing Biggies. (or to put it bluntly they kicked him out) For all of you who have had thier PC's travel in this region you know how absolutely barren it is. My PC's were captured by the Sattenelfen and managed to escape only to flee to the south across the World Spine. This put them in this barren region. It would be wonderful to see something more between the World Spine and The Milenian Empire. Also wile we are on the topic . . . .Now that they are approaching civiliazation (finally!) there is The Tower of Praxiphocles on the HWR3 map but i can't find any info in the Accessory. Any help would be great. Stephen (the one who hasn't made one of those cutesy postscripts) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:08:43 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Red Steel >>A question to all: >>Red Steel is a material lighter and stronger than steel, at least the normal mystaran steel. Modern RW steel might be similar. So it's a good material to forge strong and light weapons. This is true for swords, but what is with other weapons? Is a Red Steel-headed arrow better or worse than a normal? And what's with the weapons of the clerics? Maces and warhammers are blunt weapons and hurt through impact. As usual the look was directed only to swords. >I would think that less weight would ruin the damage a light mace or flail would do, since the weapon wouldn't have as much force or momentum or whatever. There's my two cents, I bought some penny candies with the rest so it'll have to do. I think the way to deal with Red Steel is in Range with ARrow's like discussed and Weapon Speed with melee weapons. If they can hit +1 creatures then maybe -1 from weapon speed? Discuss amongst yourselves Stephen (the one without the cutesy postscript thingy) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:14:17 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Mystara] More advice >Good advice, but I for one have a small problem. Where the hell can I get WotI? Are there places in the US who still stock it? Even better, are there places in>Australia? (Glen??). Well Where i'm from i can pick up almost all of the Hollow World products - - the boxed set. They alost have about 20 copies of WotI, Champions of Mystara, and the AD&D mystara products Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:22:25 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded Peter Balazs pontificated: >You could also look up Oriental Adventures. There is a monk-class descriped!= >And many classes have chi-powers, which I kind of liked! I have that, but didn't like it very much, and haven't looked at for a while. Probably need to find it before I make the new class. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 97 15:15:00 -0500 From: Michael Southon Subject: Re[4]: [Mystara] More advice That's great, but I don't. The only shop in the area stocks complete crap, just the basic rules sets and the purple-brown complete guides. Where do you live?? Leadryl Dracos ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Mystara] More advice Author: DOLAN@SMTP (Stephen Dolan) {dolan@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu} at !INTERNET Date: 08/12/97 20:14 >Good advice, but I for one have a small problem. Where the hell can I get WotI ? >Are there places in the US who still stock it? Even better, are there places i n >Australia? (Glen??). Well Where i'm from i can pick up almost all of the Hollow World products - - the boxed set. They alost have about 20 copies of WotI, Champions of Mystara, and the AD&D mystara products Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 22:32:37 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil Peter Balazs wrote: >Hi! >>I consider the life process as lawful because of the path it takes. Your born, you live awhile, you die. I believe it's one of the most lawful things known. >But doesnŽt that also hold true for every thing? It is created, it is, it is destroyed? >So everything is lawful in this definition, isnŽt it? Even undead? I would argue that life is a process that isn't created. Undead aren't a naturally occuring process. >>Adding another step causes it to become chaotic (or evil, if you prefer) since it no longer follows a set path. >Okay, but then also Immortals would be chaotic, wouldnŽt they? After the events of WotI, I think you could say the Immortals as a whole are chaotic ;) - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 22:34:47 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Survival Guides Check some of the sale sites on my link page. I've think I've seen it listed there. I'll keept you in mind if I see it on an auction or sale in marketplace. BTW, is that Mobile, Alabama? - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:14:00 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Mystara Quiz Hello, Over on the Forgotten Realms list, there have been from time to time quizzes for those who think they know all about the gaming world. I've put together 20 questions for those of you who want to try. Let's see how knowledgeable you are in the ways of Mystara. If you can answer most of these questions without consulting your sourcebooks, I'll be impressed. Anyway, here it is: Mystara Quiz 1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara. 2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? 3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? 4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? 5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? 6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? 7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? 8.What is the original name of Mirros? 9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? 10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? 11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? 12.What is patshatl? 13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. 14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? 15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? 16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? 17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? 18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? 19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? 20.What and where are the Dreamlands? P.S.I suggest you don't read the others' answers before posting yourself. I'll post the answers next week. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 12:07:25 +0100 From: "Nils Holger =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=E9meth?= Berg" Subject: [Re [Mystara] D&D Classes Hejsa, IŽm new to the MMLlist (been lurking around for a while though) and IŽd love to see some Mystara-Gurps experiences. I plan on starting a Gurps-campaign in Newkirk AC 990, so any help - Gurps-like or relating to the area - would be welcome. I have been wondering on the subjects of the baranoies on the NW part of IoD - I think remembering seeing something about them being Ostlandish colonies. Am I correct (has this been discussed before). If so what are their relationship to Ostland, Westrourke, Alphathia, etc. >>On the subject of D&D, I was wondering just how many still use the rules or has everyone gone to AD&D? I use GURPS. While I think you can enjoy any set of rules, D&D has many flaws. AD&D has most of the same flaws and is generally more complex (bad IMO) My campaign has been dormant lately due to studies and to other games like Traveller, Pendragon, RuneQuest and SAGA, but I hope to get back to Mystara next year. I'll try and post some of my experiences with using GURPS then, if people are interested. ( I know Leroy mentined this a while back, but I have been too busy.) Håvard < P.S. I know this post is very delayed but I just could not figure my postsytem out :-( ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 04:39:20 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Re [Mystara] D&D Classes I don't know the GURPS system, but I do find that in general it's not hard to use other game systems in Mystara ... so much of the game background is Mystara-specific that it doesn't depend on the conventions of stock D&D very much. For a long time I ran my Mystara campaign using ICE's Rolemaster (I know, the wise call it Chartmaster) ... that got burdensome after awhile but it did expand the possibilities for player characters, especially when i used it in Glantri for a while ... I have also used other systems briefly like Over the Edge (which is GURPS-esque) and also the White Wolf/Storyteller system. As for Westrourke and Dunadale, I think that due to their Celtic flavor the native inhabitants should be related to the people of the Thyatin hinterlands ... probably at a later date they were pillaged/conquered by the Ostlanders (just like medieval britain and ireland were invaded by danes etc.) ... in my mystara campaign the Heldannic Knights have recently been building outposts in parts of Westrourke under the auspices of the Empire ... in general i think the IoD is severely underdeveloped for canon Mystara; hence my recent post about Awari wood elves, Phanaton, Aranea, Drow, Mehirgwdy humans, bugbears, xvarts, etc. ... if you are interested i can send more on this. m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Nils Holger [iso-8859-1] Németh Berg wrote: >Hejsa, >IŽm new to the MMLlist (been lurking around for a while though) and IŽd love to see some Mystara-Gurps experiences. >I plan on starting a Gurps-campaign in Newkirk AC 990, so any help - Gurps-like or relating to the area - would be welcome. >I have been wondering on the subjects of the baranoies on the NW part of IoD - I think remembering seeing something about them being Ostlandish colonies. Am I correct (has this been discussed before). >If so what are their relationship to Ostland, Westrourke, Alphathia, etc. >>>On the subject of D&D, I was wondering just how many still use the rules or has everyone gone to AD&D? >I use GURPS. While I think you can enjoy any set of rules, D&D has many flaws. AD&D has most of the same flaws and is generally more complex (bad IMO) My campaign has been dormant lately due to studies and to other games like Traveller, Pendragon, RuneQuest and SAGA, but I hope to get back to Mystara next year. I'll try and post some of my experiences with using GURPS then, if people are interested. ( I know Leroy mentined this a while back, but I have been too busy.) >Håvard >< >P.S. I know this post is very delayed but I just could not figure my postsytem out :-( ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:34:44 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Is this woman an Immortal? Drawn directly from PWA1011 (page 177): "NUWMONT 14: Stonehaven abandoned [..] Anna von Hendriks and her Heldannic Knights are forced to abandon Stonehaven. Using two TRAVEL spells, Anna gets herself and six of her Knights to temporary safety on the island of Makai. [..] she first COMMUNES with Vanya, her Immortal patron, to determine the safest time for their departure.[..]" OK guys, now tell me how this valiant Officer could have TRAVELLED and COMMUNED with and Immortal in the HW if the rules say that: "Spells of divination and communication, such as [..] COMMUNE [..] Spells of instantaneus transportation, including [..] TRAVEL [..] DO NOT WORK INSIDE THE HOLLOW WORLD" (directly from PWA1011, page 5 - -capitals mine) Is she an Immortal (since they are the only ones who don't respect these rules) or has she got an immortal artifact with Travel and Commune spells? None of the above, according to the description of the character (page 132 of PWA1011), which in particular says that "she is a rather indifferent cleric of Vanya"!! So no reason why the Immortal should concede her these powers. Why then TSR made such a blatant mistake? I have a hypothesis: maybe the one who wrote this bit was an avatar of Atzanteotl or Loki trying to spread confusion and false information about the Hollow World.. In the same way then, i wouldn't give credit to the lines saying that now after WotI in the HW the spells of holding, charm, commanding and immortality work: don't believe it! They're all lies spread by some mischievous Immortal who wants to add souls to his personal Hell! ;) DM "Good Halav! The Hollow World is not like in the old days anymore. Just look at that guy: yesterday he was killed by a bear and now walks these streets like nothing happened. In the old days this would have never happened. It's all the government's fault, i tell you!" From a conversation overheard in Corisa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:08:19 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithia >YESS!!! Lucky me! I found the Kingdom of Nithia accessory in my local gaming store's bargain bin! Isn't it a nice Christmas present for me! And quite useful, too, since there seems to be a lot going on with Nithia lately. Anyway, I saw a king named Khnemet-Ur mentioned in PWA1014 (the net almanac), but didn't find him in HWR2. Who is he? My guess:an invention of the PWA writers. I wouldn't find it sensible to stick to the HWR2 material personally, as I found it one of the worst Mystara products. An editor might have made it useful..it does have a number of interesting ideas, but I don't think it's 'quite useful' as you said..oh well, to each their own and glad that you did find it useful and enjoyable. Going back to the original question, the PWAs should be making up new concepts and characters...some of the big names of the HWRs/GAZes will have died/been overthrown/retired in the 14 years since while other people rise up into positions of power. Mystara now belongs almost entirely to us, the players, and as such we are writing its future. Perhaps more information should be provided on people we invent, though, in positions of power? This way people may not get so confused.. After Ted Kennedy discovered that biographical information supplied by his staff was largely inaccurate (during his presidential bid), Kennedy said, "I will thank you two to let me make my own mistakes. As you may have noticed, I'm outstanding at that." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:51:27 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Dragonlance question... don't bash me, ok? ;) In case any of you knows, which book should i read first: Dragonlance: The Next Generation or Dragons of Summer Flame? I mean, if i read DoSF first and then NG, can i manage to understand the first without spoiling the second one's plot? thanx DM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:11:25 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Mystara Quiz: my answers At 12.14 09/12/97 +0200, you wrote: >Hello, >Over on the Forgotten Realms list, there have been from time to time quizzes for those who think they know all about the gaming world. I've put together 20 questions for those of you who want to try. Let's see how knowledgeable you are in the ways of Mystara. If you can answer most of these questions without consulting your sourcebooks, I'll be impressed. GREAT IDEA Aleksei! I'll do it.. without looking in the books, of course! ;) >Anyway, here it is: >Mystara Quiz >1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara. Thanatos (Heinrich Oesterhaus) and.. Rad (Etienne d'Ambreville).. does it count? >2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? Rafiel, Benekander... is that what u meant? >3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? Schattenalfen (gentle folk and icevale were part of Ilsundal's migration, remember) >4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? The Modrigswergs >5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? Klinta, found in Lake Klintest in Rockhome >6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? Mmhhh... Mauntea? >7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? Sheesh!... uhmm... nine? >8.What is the original name of Mirros? Specularum >9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? In the Five Shires, named after the great hero Nob Nar >10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? cause it dies shortly after it's rooted out... IIRC.. >11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? City of the Stars, in the Stone Refuge, Shadowelf Territories >12.What is patshatl? Could u please not eat while you're speaking? ;) Anyway.. it could be something associated with Azcans or Tiger Tribe of the Atruaghin clans... dunno really >13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. Leo Variantia, Kaladan, Barimoor, Mylerthendal (if still alive), Starwatcher... Travestis the evil treant >14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? 9 if u count Cimmaron.. >15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? Skyreach is capital of Floating Ar and it's on a floating island >16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? In the Malpheggi Swamp in Darokin? :) >17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? It's an artifact in Ylaruam that erases any information concerning Nithia to all those who pass near it. >18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? It's a fungi type, i dunno about the volume >19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? Brannart McGregor, Harald Haaskinz. >20.What and where are the Dreamlands? They were a Good Magic Point in Canolbarth forest (Alfheim) where the Fairy Court lived >P.S.I suggest you don't read the others' answers before posting yourself. I'll post the answers next week. Hey Aleskei, but do u know the answers by memory? I mean without reading from sources? PPS: i have my own list of questions i use for the Ierendi Tournament too. If u are interested i can post them once this quiz is solved. ;) DM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 11:17:35 -0500 From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragonlance question... don't bash me, ok? ;) Isn't Dragonlance TNG a collection of the short stories (and a few new ones) written about the children of the Heroes of the Lance and the people connected with them? If I remember correctly, that is indeed the case. Dragons of Summer Flame would follow this because it is in that volume that all of the major changes happen.... I think. If I'm wrong, could someone please correct me. I've been thinking of reading them myself. Ray DM wrote: >In case any of you knows, which book should i read first: Dragonlance: The Next Generation or >Dragons of Summer Flame? >I mean, if i read DoSF first and then NG, can i manage to understand the first without spoiling the second one's plot? >thanx >DM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:36:14 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] ToL - What are the missing three tribe of Ilsundal? At 10.08 05/12/97 PST, George Valencia wrote: >I did some research reading Glantri:KOM and Karameikos:KOA, of the missing three, one of them is definitely Erewan, Nope, i must correct u: the Erewan own only a daughter tree of the Erendyls' ToL, since they belonged to that clan and split to migrate to Glantri only later. DM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:03:50 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi << Well, I have it, but I haven't read it since I originally bought it, which was 4-5 years ago, so I tend to forget the details... >> Do it! O.k., Kastelios is a Milenian city-state in Davania. A neighbour of Kastelios is Garganin, a forgotten Hulean colony. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:03:56 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Atruaghin in WotI << Er... mistakes? Could you by any chance tell me just what those mistakes are (I don't have that Dragon mag, neither am I likely to get it). >> Do you really know what you're asking for? Probably not! Can anybody on the list help this man? A scanner might be useful. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #223 ***************************** mystara-digest Tuesday, December 9 1997 Volume 02 : Number 224 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:03:53 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Misspelled names << Did anyone notice that as Mystara was developed, several city names were misspelled at some point and it stuck. Examples are Wongzhao Tsushao/Wongzhao Tsuhao (a city in Ochalea), and Leominster/Leminster (capital of Bellayne). While this is no big deal, it gets mildly annoying to explain just why a city is suddenly named differently. Oh yes, another example is Kelvin, which was often misspelled as Kelven (even in PWA1014, so almanac people, please check your sources and don't just copy them ;) >> It's probably a matter of official and inofficial writing in different regions and countries. Look at RW. Warsaw = Warschau = Warszawa (IIRC the latter is the original Polish name). Munich = München, Moskau = Moskwa. The best: Chemnitz = Kams = Karl-Marx-Stadt. Any more questions? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:52:49 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: [Mystara] Errors in Nithian Accessory << While we're talking about this, I did like Kingdom of Nithia a lot too. In fact, all three HWRs were good, although I'm not too familiar with the Milenian Empire (yet). Incidentally, I didn't really notice the "mistakes" in the Nithian book until someone on the list pointed them out to me, and when I tried to make a timeline from the fragments of history in the book. But Sons of Azca is the best thanks to the Atruatzin/Quetzalcoatl myth, which I really like. :-) >> I've found the time: The Nithian accessory errata was in Dragon Mag 182. Of course it was the work of Bruce Heard. Thank you, Bruce. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:52:53 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil << I would argue that life is a process that isn't created. Undead aren't a naturally occuring process. >> It seems to be very natural in Mytsara. ;-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:52:54 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Survival Guides << Do any of them have copies of X10? That's the #1 roleplaying item on my Hanukhah list. Too bad the only Mystara products available in Mobile are PWA 2 and 3. >> Yes, exactly that, a copy! But I can't see how this might help you. BTW, the module isn't so good, and it definitly doesn't fit into Mystaran campaigne any longer. There's no Golden Khan in Ethengar, just a guy, who wishes to be Great Khan. The sultan of Ylaruam is a simple sheik (no Al-Kalim) and Sayr Ulan is a tent city of the master's army. My advice: Forget it! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:52:57 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Quiz Hello, Over on the Forgotten Realms list, there have been from time to time quizzes for those who think they know all about the gaming world. I've put together 20 questions for those of you who want to try. Let's see how knowledgeable you are in the ways of Mystara. If you can answer most of these questions without consulting your sourcebooks, I'll be impressed. Anyway, here it is: Mystara Quiz 1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara. Thanatos and Rad 2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? Rad, Rafiel and Khoronus 3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? Schattenalfen 4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? A Modrigswerg, but i've forgotten his name. 5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? Lake Klintest in Dengar (under humans AKA Rockhome) 6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? Franich, Pennydown and Mauntea 7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? 13!! I hope, this means good luck. 8.What is the original name of Mirros? There are two: Marilenev and Specularum. 9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? In the Five Shires, named after a (uh!) big heroe. 10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? It tries to kill you. 11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? City of the Stars, Shadowelf Caverns. 12.What is patshatl? 13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. Kaladan, Ruaidhri Hawkbane, Leo Variantia, Tylion IV. and Barimoor. 14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? 9, at least in the moment. 15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? Capital of Flying Ar, located on a flying continent and on an flying island, at the same time. 16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? Jerendi. 17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? 18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? 19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? Harald of Haskinz 20.What and where are the Dreamlands? A region in Alfheim, inhabited by faeries. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 13:17:47 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re[2]: [Mystara] Survival Guides ><< Do any of them have copies of X10? That's the #1 roleplaying item on my >Hanukhah list. Too bad the only Mystara products available in Mobile are PWA 2 and 3. >> >Yes, exactly that, a copy! But I can't see how this might help you. >BTW, the module isn't so good, and it definitly doesn't fit into Mystaran campaigne any longer. There's no Golden Khan in Ethengar, just a guy, who wishes to be Great Khan. The sultan of Ylaruam is a simple sheik (no Al-Kalim) and Sayr Ulan is a tent city of the master's army. My advice: Forget it! Aha - an excuse for a religious argument ... :) Play the guy who wishes to be Great Khan as the leader of the "youth gangs" of the respective tribes. His friends participate in the War of the Master while Moglai and the grown-ups are off fighting the Knights. The trial by combat still works nicely as a test to see if the Ethie teens will join the Darokin side, although IMC they joined the Master before the PCs got anywhere near there because Akorros and Akesoli fell. Next, call the "simple sheik" Al-Kalim (or whatever). Again, the Ylari joined the Master because of his early success. Finally, if you insist on bringing in the CoM description of Sind, the Master's tent city is set up outside the Sindi city of Sayr Ulan. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:31:14 -0500 (EST) From: StarHawk Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded After looking at Skills and Powers and the relative experience tables between fighter, priest, and mystic. They should probably have the fighter THAC0. You can almost make the Mystic from the skills and powers rules and keep the priest XP table, giving them fighter THAC0, Con and Str bonuses etc. So I think it should be OK to give them fighter stats with their current XP table. Different question about Mystics. Should they be able to gain weapon specialization as fighters? On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Dleggend wrote: >In a message dated 97-12-06 13:19:09 EST, you write: ><< Then you should go with the Priest Thac0, because at higher levels they >fight much better than Rogues. (2/3 as opposed to the Rogues 1/2). >> >I agree in the long run priest have better Thac0. >A hard choice. better thac0 at start were Mystics are weak or better Thac0 at the end? >Dleggend >http://members.aol.com/dleggend/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 14:01:29 -0500 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Quiz Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >Hello, >Over on the Forgotten Realms list, there have been from time to time quizzes for those who think they know all about the gaming world. I've put together 20 questions for those of you who want to try. Let's see how knowledgeable you are in the ways of Mystara. If you can answer most of these questions without consulting your sourcebooks, I'll be impressed. Anyway, here it is: Okay, here goes: >Mystara Quiz >1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara. Thanatos and Rad >2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? KhoronusI can't remember any others. >3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? Schattenalfen >4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? I don't know. Have to look it up. >5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? Yikes! Don't know this either. >6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? Again, have to look it up. >7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? I'm not doing very well, am I? :) >8.What is the original name of Mirros? Specularum >9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? In the Five Shires. It's named after the hin hero Nob Nar.(I think.) >10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? Don't know. >11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? The City of the Stars in the Shadow Elf Territories. >12.What is patshatl? Don't know. >13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. Tylion/TerariI can't think of any others, although I know there are several more. >14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? Six. >15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? Skyreach is the capital of Floating Ar. It is built on a floating island. >16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? The Malpheggi Swamp in Southern Darokin seems the logical answer, but I'm not entirely certain of that. >17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? Haven't got a clue. >18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? Don't know this either. >19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? Harald of Haaskinz.Can't think of any others at the moment. >20.What and where are the Dreamlands? Not sure. >P.S.I suggest you don't read the others' answers before posting yourself. I'll post the answers next week. Well, those are my answers. It was harder than I expected. Good work! Michael. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 11:24:36 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: [Mystara] re:The missing Three(tree) At 10.08 05/12/97 PST, George Valencia wrote: >I did some research reading Glantri:KOM and Karameikos:KOA, of the missing three, one of them is definitely Erewan, Nope, i must correct u: the Erewan own only a daughter tree of the Erendyls' ToL, since they belonged to that clan and split to migrate to Glantri only later. My response: O.k.! i was told about the Erendyls' little break off, but here's a question for you DM. when did Erendyl's migration, because if the Callari were part of Ilsundal's original band, then why did they arrive during Karameikos dark age, while the Erewan, and Vyallia arrive to their current locations between 2200 and 2100 b.c., did the callari settle in Alfheim first, by the way, that 'arrogant' brown elf of Elfquest, which is my Fav. character in the story, is the Rogue elf mage, known as Rayek, father of Venka, the prophesized elven messiah. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:32:47 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Quiz I'll give it a try. Aleksei Andrievski pontificated: >Hello, >Over on the Forgotten Realms list, there have been from time to time quizzes for those who think they know all about the gaming world. I've put together 20 questions for those of you who want to try. Let's see how knowledgeable you are in the ways of Mystara. If you can answer most of these questions without consulting your sourcebooks, I'll be impressed. Anyway, here it is: >Mystara Quiz >1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara. Rad and ? (Vanya and Beneker were during the WotI). >2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? Rafael (Rad and Beneker are more on the side of finding a new path than completing a known path). >3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? Schettlealfen (can't spell) >4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? ? Wayland? >5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? Remember seeing it, don't remember where. >6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? I remember at least two are based in D.C. one is the largest house, name don't remember. >7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? The number 40 pops into my head. >8.What is the original name of Mirros? Specularm (named after its bay). >9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? Five Shires? After Nob Nor? >10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? It screams? >11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? City of the Stars. >12.What is patshatl? No idea. >13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. Barimoor, a lady in Alphatia. >14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? 6? >15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? Sounds familiar, but don't remember where. >16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? Outer world Malpheggi Swamp? >17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? ? >18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? A mushroom. Pretty big, I think. >19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? Halrod and McGragor. >20.What and where are the Dreamlands? A magic point in Alfheim. Good one, I think. This is pretty neat. Lookinf forward for the answer. I knew the older stuffs better than the newer ones. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 12:48:54 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Quiz - my answers I'll be honest -- I don't expect to do very well at this. I love Mystara but only own one GAZ of my own and CoM. All the rest I've read is borrowed copies belonging to a gamer I play with, so I'm not as 'up' on a lot of the nitty gritty... Well here goes... >Mystara Quiz >1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara. Rad and ? >2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? Yav, I think. Don't know any others >3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? ?? >4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? ?? >5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? Ach. I know this... this is from the "Tall Tales of the Wee Folk" adventure booklet... "A Quiet Day Spent Fishing". Arg. I think the Lake is supposed to be in Darokin somewhere. The Name of the lake (and the monster's) starts with a "B"... >6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? Not Toney -- Its in Akorros Pennydown? Can't remember the others right now. >7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? ?? >8.What is the original name of Mirros? ?? >9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? Somewhere in the Five Shires. Some Hin named Nob? (No kidding...) >10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? Isn't that the same as Mandrake? I can't remember why though... >11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? ?? >12.What is patshatl? ?? >13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. Terrari and ?? ?? ?? >14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? ?? >15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? ?? >16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? The Malpheggi Swamp? Or maybe Alfheim (isn't there a river there that goes underground and then drains into the Malpheggi?) >17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? ?? >18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? ?? >19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? ?? >20.What and where are the Dreamlands? ?? Ouch. That was really pathetic. :-I I'm forwarding your quiz to my co-gamer though -- he's not on the List but I think he'll appreciate the opportunity to flex his Mystara Knowledge. :-) Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 14:36:55 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Quiz On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >Mystara Quiz This should be interesting... :) >1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara. Rad (obvious)- aka Etienne D'Ambreville Thanatos (if you count Count Heinrich Oesterhaus of the Hattians as being "active") >2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? Khoronus is one... Yav is another. Both are Time Immortals. I don't think Rad, Benekander, and Rafiel count, as they used the Radiance (or equivalent). >3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? The Schattenalfen. I think the Gentle Folk, but I'm not sure... >4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? The dwarves Brokk and Sindri (I read Marvel comics :) >5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? Lake Klintest, in Rockhome. The monster's name is Klinty? >6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? Let's see... Al-Azrad's in Selenica; Toney's in Akesoli (or Akorros?)... I'll go for Franich, as that's the only other one I recall offhand... >7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? 11, I think. Something like 5 sons and 6 daughters. I've got all their birthdates on my timeline... >8.What is the original name of Mirros? Marilenev. >9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? It's in the Five Shires, and it's *not* named after the Hin hero Nob Nar. >10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? Because when they die (and scream) they kill whoever pulled them. >11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? The City of the Stars, in the big cavern in the Shadowelves territory. >12.What is patshatl? Isn't that that Shadowelf foodstuff? >13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. Leo Varianita, Terari/Tylion IV, Tylion's mother (presuming she still lives), Barimoor... and a whole host of others. :) >14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? 6? >15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? It's in Alphatia, I think. Home of the airship fleet? >16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? In the Malpheggi swamps in Darokin. >17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? It is the artifact created by the Immortals to wipe the memory of Nithia from the minds of mortals. It is located beneath (IIRC) Surra-Man Raa, in Ylaruam. >18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? That's a darned good question. I don't think I've ever even heard of that one before... >19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? Harald of Haaskinz, Angus McGregor, Brannart McGregor (if you count his Lichiness). >20.What and where are the Dreamlands? They are a Good Magic Point in Alfheim (southwest corner). They also host the Fairy Court of Oberon, King of the Fairies. This was fun! - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 14:38:49 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Re [Mystara] D&D Classes On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Matthew Levy wrote: >As for Westrourke and Dunadale, I think that due to their Celtic flavor the native inhabitants should be related to the people of the Thyatin hinterlands ... probably at a later date they were pillaged/conquered by the Ostlanders (just like medieval britain and ireland were invaded by>danes etc.) ... in my mystara campaign the Heldannic Knights have recently been building outposts in parts of Westrourke under the auspices of the Empire ... There are some distinctly Nordic sounding villages in Westrourke, and in GAZ7 it is mentioned that Ostland has agreements with Thyatis to settle the Isle of Dawn. I'd say it's a combination of the two folk... - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:30:31 -0700 From: "Joe Gerber" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Quiz >Hello, >Over on the Forgotten Realms list, there have been from time to time quizzes for those who think they know all about the gaming world. I've put together 20 questions for those of you who want to try. Let's see how knowledgeable you are in the ways of Mystara. If you can answer most of these questions without consulting your sourcebooks, I'll be impressed. Anyway, here it is: What a way to de-lurk...with answers to a quiz! :-) >Mystara Quiz >1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara. Thanatos, if Mark of Amber is played properly then Rad, and I don't have any reason to believe that Valerius dropped her mortal ID in Thaytis after WotI. >2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? Kronous and (IIRC) Yav, both on path of Dynast. >3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? Shantenalfen and (indirectly) Icevale elves. >4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? Good question. >5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? Good question. >6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? I'd have to check the Gaz for that one, I think only 3 of them. >7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? Good question. ^^;;; >8.What is the original name of Mirros? Specularum, the general area was origianlly The Estate of Marlinev. >9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? I'm not sure what it is, but I do know it was not named for me ;-). >10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? Good question. >11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? City of the Stars (upside down relative to one standing with feet pointed towards the center of Mystara). That's also a pretty good pun there ("in the world" indeed:). >12.What is patshatl? Good question. >13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. I can only think of two--Tylion and Barimoor. >14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? IIRC, 9. >15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? Capital of Floating Ar; is on the largest of a group of "flying" islands. >16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? I don't think it was the Malpheggi Swamp, and even though the Nithians used them for labor, I don't think it was Nithia; I'll have to say Irendi. >17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? Speaking of Nithia:-)...It is the artifact used to destroy the surface world Nithian culture and keep it destroyed by removing the memories of those who pass close to it. It's found in a glass desert in the Nithian region of Yllarium. >18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? Good question. >19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? Harald. >20.What and where are the Dreamlands? Good question. Joe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 23:05:57 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [Mystara] Lists on MPGN :) Look at this: >Just so you know, I found this on the MPGN web site (the site that hosts the Dragon Dice email list) after my mail to the list started bouncing. Please forward this to anyone else you know who might be affected. >The original machine that had been running WWW.MPGN.COM had a catastrophic >drive failure. We are in the process of restoring things. ... ftp.mpgn.com and the >MPG-Net mailing lists are still down. This process is taking a lot longer than >anticipated and full service may not be restored, in particular to the mailing lists and >the Gaming Archive until mid-week. We apologize for any inconvenience. Look at the bright side. They had a drive failure now, so it's unlikely that they'll have another one when the Mystara list will be moved there :) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 15:13:10 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [Mystara] Revised Mystic Class Here they are- something I've been working on and off with for awhile. The primary thing that prompted it was the vast damage discrepancies that seemd to be so unbalancing. I hope that I've balanced that out somewhat now. This revised class makes the mystic sort of a combination of Oriental Adventures Monk and Kensai (in that they are not necessarily unarmed specialists, but are specialists in a certain type of weapon). Some Notes: - - The damage bonuses were generated by using the Striking Weapon Mastery table as a base. I thought it would be more interesting to combine their abilities with the WM rules rather than have a flat rate for damage. This allows more variation in mystics- a Karate specialist won't have the same damage rates as a Kung-Fu specialist. - - A 36th level mystic (with these rules) has a higher maximum damage than a 36th level fighter with a +5 sword, but also a lower minimum, which helps balance things. I write off the higher max due to their being so specialized. - - Along with the above notes, here's how I generated the damages- I compared a Mystic with Grand Mastery in Striking with a Fighter with a +5 Normal Sword and Grand Mastery in that weapon (feeling that these would be the averages of both classes). Then I used that to generate comparable damages. - - Rather than automatically have the Mystic get extra attacks, I made it so that they, like the fighter, gain multiple attacks at incremental levels. Whether you use the "must have a 2 or lower attack roll" rule or just allow multiple attacks regardless, this should work the same for both classes. - - I thought having Hear Noise rather than the Find/Remove Traps abilities seemed somewhat more fitting for mystics, and so revised this. - - I increased the maximum movement to 360'/rd, purely out of personal tastes (why not have someone three times as fast as normal?) - - The increased restrictions should help to drive the point home that they are specialists, first and foremost (and, IMO, would be considered a fighter sub-class in AD&D), and help to abuses of their bonus ability, by Grand Mastering in all sorts of weapons and using those abilities. - - I added a few new special abilities, and tweaked the others to various levels by comparing them with similar magical abilities (ie, Demihumans get Resistance-type abilities at a certain level; I tweaked the Mystic Resistance ability to roughly correspond to those levels.) - - Altogether, it looks like the revised mystic may suffer a "Magic-User" phenomenon; ie, it isn't as powerful at lower levels, but at high levels, it gets pretty darn tough. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It helps explain why this class isn't as widespread as some... Anyway, I thought I had another point or two to mention, but can't recall offhand, so... I haven't had a chance to playtest it or anything, but let me know what you think. Revised Mystic Rules Prime Requisite: Strength and Dexterity. Other Requirements: Wisdom and Dexterity scores of 13 or higher. Experience Bonus: 5% for Strength 13-15; 10% for Strength 16-18. Hit Dice: 1d6 per level up to 9th level. Starting at 10th level, +2 hit points per level, and Constitution adjustments no longer apply. Maximum Level: 36. Armor: None; shield not permitted. Weapons: Any. Special Abilities: AC Bonuses, increased movement, and martial arts (see Mystic Special Abilities Table); (at 9th level) Set Spear vs. Charge, Fighter Combat Options; Acrobatics; Thief abilities; mystic abilities. Saving Throws: As Fighter of same level. Thac0: As Fighter of same level. Thief Abilities: Any mystic can use the following abilities as a thief of the same level- Climb Walls, Hear Noise, Hide in Shadows, Move Silently. Weapon Mastery: Begin with two weapon choices; additional choices at levels 3, 6, 9, 11, 15, 23, 30, and 36. One additional choice per 200,000 xp gained after level 36. Class Description: Mystics are monastic humans who follow a strict discipline of meditation, denial, seclusion, and mastery of the human body. Mystics are skilled in the martial arts, normally unarmed, but occasionally in forms that make use of weaponry. They all specialize in a single form of martial art, and gain benefits that normal fighters do not due to their specialization. They live in cloisters, or monastic communities. Their focus and utter devotion tohe process of learning a specific form of "martial art" (as outsiders call them) allows the mystic to perform feats with their specialty that other fighters are not capable of. Additionally, their focus (sometimes called "chi" among Ochalean society) allows them to perform feats of incredible willpower and seemingly superhuman ability (those listed in the Special Abilities column). Mystics adventure to gain spiritual growth and learn the lessons of life outside the cloister. They rarely adventure with other mystics; they prefer to attach themselves to adventuring parties consisting of many different types of adventurers. Mystics recieve experience from treasure only if they donate it to the needy. Also, they must donate (tithe) ten percent of their treasure to their cloister. Mystic Table Level XP AC Dmg MV Atks Equivalent Special Abilities 1 0 9 +1d3 120' 1/1 - - 2 2,000 8 +1d4 130' 1/1 Silver Weapon Awareness 3 4,000 7 +1d4+1 140' 1/1 Silver Weapon - 4 8,000 7 - 150' 1/1 Silver Weapon - 5 16,000 6 +1d6 150' 1/1 +1 Weapon Heal Self 6 32,000 6 - 160' 1/1 +1 Weapon - 7 64,000 5 +1d6+1 170' 1/1 +1 Weapon - 8 120,000 5 - 170' 1/1 +1 Weapon Speak with Animals 9 240,000 4 - 180' 1/1 +1 Weapon - 10 360,000 4 +1d8 190' 1/1 +2 Weapon - 11 480,000 3 - 190' 1/1 +2 Weapon Feign Death* 12 600,000 3 +1d8+1 200' 2/1 +2 Weapon - 13 720,000 2 - 210' 2/1 +2 Weapon - 14 840,000 2 - 210' 2/1 +2 Weapon Speak with Anyone 15 960,000 2 +1d10 220' 2/1 +2 Weapon - 16 1,080,000 1 - 230' 2/1 +2 Weapon - 17 1,200,000 1 - 230' 2/1 +2 Weapon Resistance 18 1,320,000 1 - 240' 2/1 +2 Weapon - 19 1,440,000 0 - 250' 2/1 +2 Weapon - 20 1,560,000 0 +1d10+1 250' 2/1 +3 Weapon Mind Block 21 1,680,000 0 - 260' 2/1 +3 Weapon - 22 1,800,000 -1 - 270' 2/1 +3 Weapon - 23 1,920,000 -1 - 270' 2/1 +3 Weapon - 24 2,040,000 -1 +1d12 280' 3/1 +3 Weapon - 25 2,160,000 -2 - 290' 3/1 +3 Weapon Blankout 26 2,280,000 -2 - 290' 3/1 +3 Weapon - 27 2,400,000 -2 +2d8 300' 3/1 +3 Weapon - 28 2,520,000 -3 - 310' 3/1 +3 Weapon - 29 2,640,000 -3 - 310' 3/1 +3 Weapon - 30 2,760,000 -4 +4d4 320' 3/1 +4 Weapon Willpower* 31 2,880,000 -4 - 330' 3/1 +4 Weapon - 32 3,000,000 -4 - 330' 3/1 +4 Weapon - 33 3,120,000 -5 - 340' 3/1 +4 Weapon - 34 3,240,000 -5 - 350' 3/1 +4 Weapon - 35 3,360,000 -5 - 350' 3/1 +4 Weapon - 36 3,480,000 -6 +5d4 360' 4/1 +5 Weapon Gentle Touch Notes on Abilities Mystics are all specialists in one particular form of combat (usually unarmed) that is chosen at the start of the PC's adventuring career. As the mystic gains weapon choices, he must always have a higher level of Mastery in his specialty style than any other weapon he uses. Mystics gain a number of benefits in their primary style that other fighter types do not. Despair: Mystics should always, due to their mastery of their weapons, use the Despair effects for Weapon Mastery, even if the rule is not otherwise in use. If already in use, allow the mystics a -1 penalty to opponent's morale checks per level of mastery above Basic level (ie, -1 at Skilled, -2 at Expert, etc.) to reflect the deadliness of the mystic's fighting ability. Multiple Attacks: Mystics gain the same multiple attack capability as Fighters of equivalent levels. Extra Damage: Extra damage is only gained when fighting with the mystic's primary style. Weapon Equivalent: Experienced mystics are able to utilize their primary weapon style in a manner that allows them to hit creatures affected only by magical or silvered weapons. They do not gain a magical bonus; the equivalent only shows what sorts of creatures can be hurt. This is effective only with the primary style. Feign Death*: This allows the mystic to induce a state of catalepsy in which he appears dead, even to magical forms of detection. This ability lasts for one turn per level of the mystic. Willpower*: This ability is similar to the 9th level Wizard spell Survival. It allows the mystic to, through sheer force of will, ignore any damage due to natural environmental conditions around him. It lasts for one round per level. Special Restrictions Mystics may not use protective magical devices (such as rings, cloaks, bracers, etc.) When fighting using their specialty style, they may not use a magical weapon. If they do, they will gain no experience from the encounter. Mystics only gain half experience from any encounters where they use a weapon other than their specialty style. Mystics may never have a higher level of Weapon Mastery in any weapon style other than their primary specialty. They must have achieved Grand Mastery in their primary style before raising any other style to Grand Master. All the material goods (money, magical items, etc.) won, purchased, or acquired as treasure by the mystic are actually owned by the cloister, and not the mystic himself. Should the cloister have need of something "owned" by the mystic, the head of the cloister need only ask for it. Higher Experience Levels A mystic of Name (9th) level is addressed as master (if male) or mistress (if female). There are many mystics of 1st to 29th level, but only seven each of 30th-32nd level, five each of 33rd-35th level, and three of 36th level. When a mystic gains enough experience to reach 30th level, he must find and challenge one of the seven 30th level mystics; they will fight bare-handed (or with their designated weapon style). If the player character loses, he stays at 29th level, losing enough experience points that he is 1 experience point short of 30th level. Once he's regained 30th level, he may try again, but cannot issue another challenge until three months have passed since his first challenge. (Note: If a DM's campaign world is particularly large, he might declare that there are seven 30th and so forth per continent in his world.) At Name level, the mystic may desire to build a stronghold, or cloister. If his Grand Abbot (i.e., the mystic in charge of his current cloister) agrees that he is fit to manage one, the cloister will pay for construction of the new cloister. The new cloister remains a branch of the old one until the PC achieves 13th level, at which time the PC can declare his independence. At that point, he may wish to teach his mystics-in-training in techniques and philosophies different from those of the other cloister- that is, he may wish to establish his own "school" of the discipline. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 17:32:48 -0500 From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lists on MPGN :) Hey Fabrizio, That's some bright side.... ;) Ray >Look at the bright side. They had a drive failure now, so it's unlikely that they'll have another one when the Mystara list will be moved there :) -------------- >Fabrizio Paoli >brizio@lunet.it >Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 16:36:22 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragonlance question... don't bash me, ok? ;) Read Second Generation first as it introduces Steel (Sturm's son) and the Knights of Takhisis. Both play a roll in Dragons of Summer Flame but aren't given any background there. Emjoy, both were good books IMO. DM wrote: >In case any of you knows, which book should i read first: Dragonlance: The Next Generation or >Dragons of Summer Flame? >I mean, if i read DoSF first and then NG, can i manage to understand the first without spoiling the second one's plot? >thanx >DM - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 23:33:02 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Quiz At 12.14 09/12/97 +0200, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: I've no sourcebook here and I've not read the other answers. Let's see what I can do. >Mystara Quiz >1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara. Rad, Thanatos, Vanya(?) >2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? Rafiel, Benekander, maybe Yav an Khoronus too. >3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? Schattenalfen, though canon stuff is unclear (at best) on this topic. >4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? Ehm... mmmhh... a weaponsmith? :) >5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? The Dragon Turtle in Dragon Lake in the Shadow Elves territories, just south of City of the Stars, north of Losetrel and West of Alfmyr. >6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? Mauntea, the one beginning with F..., >7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? Does he have childrens? >8.What is the original name of Mirros? Specularum (or did it have another name before King Stefan got there...) >9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? It's in the Five Shires and was named after a great halfling hero named Nob Nar or something like that. >10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? Because... ehm... because... >11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? City of the Stars in the Shadow Elves Territories? Just north of Dragon Lake, south of... >12.What is patshatl? Sindhi food? >13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. Barimoor, Terari, the Master of Hule, Demetrion(?) >14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? The Savage Baronies are 9 IIRC, but not all of them are Baronies (eg Cimarron County) >15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? Skyreach? It's in Alphatia IIRC. >16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? In the Malpheggi swamp in what is now southern Darokin. (and Ierendi islands) >17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? I've forgotten about it :) >18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? Don't know. >19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? Brannart for sure, and maybe also Harald of Haaskinz >20.What and where are the Dreamlands? What and where were the Dreamlands! Before WotI they were an area in south-western Alfheim inhabited by sprites, pixies and the like. King Oberon and Queen Titania had their court there. >P.S.I suggest you don't read the others' answers before posting yourself. I'll post the answers next week. I can't wait till next week! :) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #224 ***************************** mystara-digest Wednesday, December 10 1997 Volume 02 : Number 225 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 16:42:55 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil You know, you're absolutely right. Entropy probably should be looked at as a natural process also. Still, I think undead are a perversion of life and so just not lawful. If anyone had read some of DC Comics stories that deal with the Lords of Order and the Lords of Chaos, you'll see that both wouldn't be classified as good. In fact, their relationship is one of order but their actions are definitely chaotic. I would think you could say that life is an ordererly process (therefore, lawful) but is chaotic in nature. Still, that can apply to undead too... oh, well. I give up ;) JamugaKhan wrote: > > << I would argue that life is a process that isn't created. Undead aren't > a naturally occuring process. >> > > It seems to be very natural in Mytsara. ;-) - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 16:48:49 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lists on MPGN :) I was beginning to wonder why none of my other lists had any posts. And your right, the Mystara list shouldn't have any problem when we get moved. Maybe even a nice clean spot on the drives ;) Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > > Look at this: > > >Just so you know, I found this on the MPGN web site (the site that hosts > >the Dragon Dice email list) after my mail to the list started bouncing. > >Please forward this to anyone else you know who might be affected. > > > > > >The original machine that had been running WWW.MPGN.COM had a > >catastrophic > >drive failure. We are in the process of restoring things. ... > >ftp.mpgn.com and the > >MPG-Net mailing lists are still down. This process is taking a lot > >longer than > >anticipated and full service may not be restored, in particular to the > >mailing lists and > >the Gaming Archive until mid-week. We apologize for any inconvenience. > > > > Look at the bright side. They had a drive failure now, so it's unlikely > that they'll have another one when the Mystara list will be moved there :) > -------------- > Fabrizio Paoli > brizio@lunet.it > Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 > -------------- - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 23:49:58 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] re:The missing Three(tree) At 11.24 09/12/97 PST, you wrote: > >My response: >O.k.! i was told about the Erendyls' little break off, but here's a >question for you DM. when did Erendyl's migration, because if the >Callari were part of Ilsundal's original band, then why did they arrive >during Karameikos dark age, while the Erewan, and Vyallia arrive to >their current locations between 2200 and 2100 b.c., did the callari >settle in Alfheim first, Callari arrived in the Thyatian area together with the other clans from the Sylvan Realm using the Raimbow Bridge (Mealiden migration). From there almost all the clans moved to Alfheim, but the Callari stopped in Karameikos. I don't remember the exact date, but I'm sure they didn't settle in Alfheim first. >by the way, that 'arrogant' brown elf of >Elfquest, which is my Fav. character in the story, is the Rogue elf >mage, known as Rayek, father of Venka, the prophesized elven messiah. I don't know Elfquest, but I'm not surprised you like "that 'arrogant' brown elf" :-) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:41:52 EST From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Quiz In a message dated 97-12-09 05:22:41 EST, you write: << Hello, Over on the Forgotten Realms list, there have been from time to time quizzes for those who think they know all about the gaming world. I've put together 20 questions for those of you who want to try. Let's see how knowledgeable you are in the ways of Mystara. If you can answer most of these questions without consulting your sourcebooks, I'll be impressed. Anyway, here it is: Mystara Quiz ***These are the answers off the top of my head, will answer again after I look*** 1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara. Rad (Etienne) Thanatos (that Hattian guy) Vanya (during WotI - Anya) 2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? Chronus Diamond (Dragon Trilogy) plus maybe Rafiel & Benekander 3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? Schattenalfen 4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? Moulder Dwarves 5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? Lake Klintest (Rockhome) Klinty 6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? Mauntea? Toney? 7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? 3 ? 8.What is the original name of Mirros? Trick question, its not Specularum (thats what the Thyatians renamed it), uhh Halav maybe? 9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? 5 Shires, ummm some hero named Nob 10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? Kills whoever pulls it out 11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? City of the Stars Shadow Elf terrirories 12.What is patshatl? Sounds Shadowelvish or Azcan 13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. Barimoor, Doriath (former King of Alfheim) was thinking about it, that weretiger guy from PC4 14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? a bunch 15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? Uhhh (takes a shot in the dark) Alphatia, has the biggest theater in Alphatia (wild guess) 16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? Ierendi 17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? Immortal Artifact, wiped out memory of Nithia, under Cinsa-men-noo 18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? Its a mushroom... 19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? Harald Haskiinz and Brannart McGregor 20.What and where are the Dreamlands? >> Fairy Realm formerly in Alfheim I think it was moved to another plane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 21:02:08 EST From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dragonlance question... don't bash me, ok? ;) Read the Next Generation first... it provides some background for the characters in Summer Flame ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 21:13:07 -0500 (EST) From: StarHawk Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Quiz > Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > > > Hello, > > Over on the Forgotten Realms list, there have been from time to time > > quizzes for those who think they know all about the gaming world. I've put > > together 20 questions for those of you who want to try. Let's see how > > knowledgeable you are in the ways of Mystara. If you can answer most of > > these questions without consulting your sourcebooks, I'll be impressed. > > Anyway, here it is: > > Okay, here goes: > > > Mystara Quiz > > > > 1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent > > mortal identity on Mystara. > Rad, Vanya, Valerias... > > > 2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing > > the requisite path? > Khoronus, Ka, I think one of the Earth Mother types too (Terra or Djea) > > > 3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow > > Elves? > Schattenalfen > > > 4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? > Don't know. Probably one of those "Dark elves" that are really dwarves in the Northern Reaches. Svirfneblin or something. > > > 5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? > Don't remember. Lake Amsorak? > > > 6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? > Don't remember > > > 7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? > Don't know. > > > 8.What is the original name of Mirros? > Marilenev > > > 9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? > Five Shires. And its not named for Nob Nar I suppose. > > 10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? > Because the plant screams as it is pulled, the scream is deadly. > > > 11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? > The City of the Stars > > > 12.What is patshatl? > Don't know. > > > 13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. > Terari, ?, ?, ? > > > 14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? > Six. > > > 15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? > Floating Ar. Its floating > > > 16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? > Malpheggi Swamp > > > 17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? > Doesn't it make you lose all your memories? And I can't remeber where it is :) > > > 18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? > Don't know. > > > 19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? > Prince Harald of Haaskinz, and Prince Brannart McGregor (who is a full Radiance Lich) > > 20.What and where are the Dreamlands? > Good magic point in Alfheim and the location of the Seelie Court. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 21:27:31 EST From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [Mystara] Misspelled names In a message dated 97-12-08 07:01:02 EST, you write: << Did anyone notice that as Mystara was developed, several city names were misspelled at some point and it stuck. Examples are Wongzhao Tsushao/Wongzhao Tsuhao (a city in Ochalea), and Leominster/Leminster (capital of Bellayne). While this is no big deal, it gets mildly annoying to explain just why a city is suddenly named differently. Oh yes, another example is Kelvin, which was often misspelled as Kelven (even in PWA1014, so almanac people, please check your sources and don't just copy them ;) >> Yes, I noticed this too. I also remember that one of the coastal towns in Ylaruam had a typo on the map when compared with the text (I don't remember which one however) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 21:30:45 EST From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithia In a message dated 97-12-08 09:13:17 EST, you write: << YESS!!! Lucky me! I found the Kingdom of Nithia accessory in my local gaming store's bargain bin! Isn't it a nice Christmas present for me >> Just thought I'd mention that there were a couple of stores in my area which still had a few Gazeteers and other Mystara stuff in stock. If anyone wants I can get their addresses/phone numbers and post it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 21:19:15 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re[4]: [Mystara] More advicere > Where do you live?? > Good old Fargo, ND :) The store is called OMNI ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:05:37 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: [Mystara] 'B' Series I was wondering if anyone has all the 'B' modules and the 'B1-9' collection. Is B1-9 just all the individual modules stuffed together or have they added or subtracted something. I was just wondering if I should stick with the individual ones or be better off getting a copy of the mega-set. With my nature I'll probably think I'll need to get both but maybe I can talk myself out of it ;) Galwylin - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:20:25 -0700 From: "Patrick" Subject: [Mystara] X10 (was Re: Survival Guides) >Yes, exactly that, a copy! But I can't see how this might help you. > >BTW, the module isn't so good, and it definitly doesn't fit into Mystaran >campaigne any longer. There's no Golden Khan in Ethengar, just a guy, who >wishes to be Great Khan. The sultan of Ylaruam is a simple sheik (no Al-Kalim) >and Sayr Ulan is a tent city of the master's army. My advice: Forget it! I disagree. While much of the information is outdated, it makes an excellent adventure to run during the course of WotI and it provides outlines for campaigns in many nations. With some simple changes (as described in WotI) the adventure works quite well. The description of the conquest of Akesoli is particularly well-written. Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 97 23:56:08 EST From: hamr@great-mail.com Subject: [Mystara] Advertisement: DON'T BUY TARGET E-MAIL LISTS!! We have many great products and programs, which benefit the Internet Marketer. If we have reached you in error and you don't wish to receive future mail from us, double click the reply to address and type remove as the subject. Your address will be removed immediately!! ________________Don't Buy Target Email Lists!!________________ Create your own target lists with, with the same tools the professionals use!! 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Let us again say, the added benefit behind Multi-threading, a process which lets you capture and extract your targeted search results at staggering speeds. Sonic is... Multi-Threaded Enter a keyword and Sonic will search the Internet!! Ability to search multiple sites simultaneously. Search any one of 9 different search engines, or search them ALL simultaneously! To download the free demo send e-mail to hamr@great-mail.com Sonic Demo as subject Looking for Mailers? Download, NetContact, Stealth, Mach10 Send e-mail to hamr@great-mail.com Mailer demos as subject. When you purchase our software you receive at no additional cost; 1. Mr. Clean e-mail filter. Process 100,000 address files through 32 filters in 36 seconds!! 2. Our CD of 28 million addresses, updated as of 11/7/97. The best list available. All software is sold with tech support. We will take the time to walk you through the process step by step. To purchase the cd of 28 million adresses, Price $85.00 send e-mail to hamr@great-mail.com Type CD Purchase as subject. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:04:19 +0100 From: "Danny De Bie" Subject: [Mystara] Request: Mystara Netbook in Word format Hi Everybody, This is my first post to this list, so don't be too hard :-) Does anybody know where I can find a copy of the Mystara Netbook in Word format? I can find a copy in Wordperfect format but my MSWord 'translates' it horribly... I also found a copy of it at Nostradomus Vault but there are serious flaws in it :( So if anybody could direct me too a site with a perfect copy of the Netbook in MSWord, I would be very thankfull I'm sorry if this post is off-topic :( Last Word: keep Mystara alive!!!! :-) Kind regards, Danny De Bie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:24:22 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [Mystara] remove >From: hamr@great-mail.com >Date: Tue, 09 Dec 97 23:56:08 EST >To: group@heliocomp.net >Subject: [Mystara] Advertisement: DON'T BUY TARGET E-MAIL LISTS!! >Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com > >We have many great products and programs, which benefit the Internet >Marketer. If we have reached you in error and you don't wish to receive >future mail from us, double click the reply to address and type remove as the subject. >Your address will be removed immediately!! > > >________________Don't Buy Target Email Lists!!________________ > >Create your own target lists with, with the same tools the professionals use!! > >GEOLISTtm Version 2.01 Geographical Email Address Collector >GeoList 2.01 lets you create geographically targeted email address lists without knowing a thing >about URLS or HTML. With this powerful new collector, target any city, in any state! then click extract! >GeoList will start gathering addresses automatically!! Watch as the list of e-mail addresses appears! > >This is the same program the professionals use to gather and sell their own target lists!! > >Build an entire Nation wide marketing campaign by state, or specific city. >GeoList will make it easier than ever, with its powerful multithreaded program. > >Download the demo and try it! Once you see GeoList in action, you will buy it! >You can purchase GeoList and within 30 to 60 seconds after purchase have a registered >FUNCTIONAL program!! >We have a user friendly "SUPER FAST" secure order-processing system!!! > >To download the free demo send e-mail to hamr@great-mail.com Geolist Demo as subject > > > DejaVuTM Version 1.0 Collect Address from the History of the NewsGroups! > >Introducing a completely new target oriented email collection software linked directly to Deja News. >Use DejaVu to automate your collection from Deja News, a complete historical archive of anyone who >ever posted to a newsgroup! 30 to 60 seconds and you are a registered user!! >Millions of Newsgroup Articles to search! >You can choose to search through recent (last two months) articles, or articles dating back to 1995. > Simply enter a keyword to search with and press go! >To download the free demo send e-mail to hamr@great-mail.com DejaVu Demo as subject > > SonicTM Version 1.0 build 9 Multi-Tasking Email Address Collector > >The Sonic is an all-in-one, Web collection tool, that includes TargetSmart® Technology, 30 Second >Registration, and Multiple SearchToggle. Let us again say, the added benefit behind Multi-threading, >a process which lets you capture and extract your targeted search results at staggering speeds. >Sonic is... Multi-Threaded > Enter a keyword and Sonic will search the Internet!! > Ability to search multiple sites simultaneously. > Search any one of 9 different search engines, or search them ALL simultaneously! > >To download the free demo send e-mail to hamr@great-mail.com Sonic Demo as subject > >Looking for Mailers? Download, NetContact, Stealth, Mach10 >Send e-mail to hamr@great-mail.com Mailer demos as subject. > >When you purchase our software you receive at no additional cost; >1. Mr. Clean e-mail filter. Process 100,000 address files through 32 filters in 36 seconds!! >2. Our CD of 28 million addresses, updated as of 11/7/97. The best list available. > >All software is sold with tech support. We will take the time to walk you through the process >step by step. > >To purchase the cd of 28 million adresses, Price $85.00 >send e-mail to hamr@great-mail.com Type CD Purchase as subject. > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:33:15 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [Mystara] remove Sorry, didn't see the reply address was mml. Does that mean that it was the list who was spammed or that the spammers are getting even more annoying every day by changing the reply-to address? I'm getting sick of receiving spam... almost every day now. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 07:51:11 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series B1-9 is not the individual modules stuffed together. It has been edited and material added to tie the adventures together and to Karameikos (except B6 which already was explicitly set in Karameikos). B1 is not there at all and at least one of the mini adventures in B9 was also omitted. IMO, I'd get the individual modules (which is NOT what I did do at the time) because, as usual with TSR products of that vintage, older is better (Don't get me started on what a CRAPPY job they did when they reissued the original Dragonlance modules as the Dragonlance Classics series). >I was wondering if anyone has all the 'B' modules and the 'B1-9' >collection. Is B1-9 just all the individual modules stuffed together or >have they added or subtracted something. I was just wondering if I should >stick with the individual ones or be better off getting a copy of the >mega-set. With my nature I'll probably think I'll need to get both but >maybe I can talk myself out of it ;) > >Galwylin >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Email: galwylin@airnet.net >Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ > >Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! >http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:01:31 +0100 From: "Nils Holger =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=E9meth?= Berg" Subject: [Mystara] Re: Mystara Quiz Mystara Quiz 1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara. Rad (Etienne) & Thanatos (that weirdo Hattian guy) 2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? Rafiel & Khoronus & that WotI guy (Benekander?) 3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? The Schattenalfen 4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? The Modrigswerd (Moulder Dwarves) 5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? Lake Klintest in Rockhome (name's Klintie IIRC) 6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? Toney? 7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? 8.What is the original name of Mirros? Specularum 9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? in The Five Shires? 10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? when it is unrooted it shrieks, and if you hear you will die! 11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? The city of stars in the main cavern of the Shadowselves 12.What is patshatl? that freaky atzcan/oenkmarian football game ? 13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. Barimoor, Mylertendal, the twisted treant from PC1 and Synn (i think) 14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? ? 15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? ? 16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? The Malpheggi swamps in Darokin, and the Ierendi Isles 17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? ? (doesn't sound nice) 18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? 19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? Haald of Haaskinz and Brannart Mcgregor 20.What and where are the Dreamlands? The home dimension of the wallara? P.S.I suggest you don't read the others' answers before posting yourself. I'll post the answers next week. BTW: Nice idea. What about sending them to Jeopardy :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:02:50 EST From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [Mystara] Is this woman an Immortal? In a message dated 97-12-09 10:54:57 EST, you write: << Drawn directly from PWA1011 (page 177): "NUWMONT 14: Stonehaven abandoned [..] Anna von Hendriks and her Heldannic Knights are forced to abandon Stonehaven. Using two TRAVEL spells, Anna gets herself and six of her Knights to temporary safety on the island of Makai. [..] she first COMMUNES with Vanya, her Immortal patron, to determine the safest time for their departure.[..]" OK guys, now tell me how this valiant Officer could have TRAVELLED and COMMUNED with and Immortal in the HW if the rules say that: "Spells of divination and communication, such as [..] COMMUNE [..] Spells of instantaneus transportation, including [..] TRAVEL [..] DO NOT WORK INSIDE THE HOLLOW WORLD" (directly from PWA1011, page 5 -capitals mine) Is she an Immortal (since they are the only ones who don't respect these rules) or has she got an immortal artifact with Travel and Commune spells? None of the above, according to the description of the character (page 132 of PWA1011), which in particular says that "she is a rather indifferent cleric of Vanya"!! So no reason why the Immortal should concede her these powers. Why then TSR made such a blatant mistake? I have a hypothesis: maybe the one who wrote this bit was an avatar of Atzanteotl or Loki trying to spread confusion and false information about the Hollow World.. In the same way then, i wouldn't give credit to the lines saying that now after WotI in the HW the spells of holding, charm, commanding and immortality work: don't believe it! They're all lies spread by some mischievous Immortal who wants to add souls to his personal Hell! ;) DM >> She could have used an artifact to do it... - -Mage ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:22:59 +0100 From: "Nils Holger =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=E9meth?= Berg" Subject: [Mystara] Re:[d&d classes/Iod] Cthuludrew wrote: >On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Matthew Levy wrote: >> As for Westrourke and Dunadale, I think that due to their Celtic flavor >> the native inhabitants should be related to the people of the Thyatin >> hinterlands ... probably at a later date they were pillaged/conquered by >> the Ostlanders (just like medieval britain and ireland were invaded by >> danes etc.) ... in my mystara campaign the Heldannic Knights have recently >> been building outposts in parts of Westrourke under the auspices of the >> Empire ... > >There are some distinctly Nordic sounding villages in Westrourke, and in >GAZ7 it is mentioned that Ostland has agreements with Thyatis to settle >the Isle of Dawn. I'd say it's a combination of the two folk... Has anyone developed it further than Gaz 7, DoE and the PWAs? Matthew: I'd love some info on the Avari-elves. BTW: I seem to remember something about Malpheggi Swamp being a by-product of the Alfheim woods spell (subterranean tunnels sending water from alfheim to malpheggi (gaz5 (the only one I *don't* have :-() - now that the spell is out of effect, shouldnŽt malpheggi be drying up? There was a flood about 1010 because of the Masters meteor, but Malpheggi really should be drying up, right? Bad news for Port Tenobar- they will probably be sieged by starving lizardmen (time for some good olŽ monsterbashing (or the DDC)). Well, i have rambled enough. Unfortunantely I have a major report to do for next week so I wonŽt be able to get to the computer 'till after New Year :-( Holger the Ogre. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 06:40:29 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re:[d&d classes/Iod] Info on the Awari (Avari is the Tolkeinian spelling from the Silmarillion, I decided to change it a little so as to not be quite so obviously plagiaristic): They are a race of wood elves, much wilder and less "civilized" than those of Alfheim or Shiye-Lawr. They are an old offshoot of the Elvish race, possibly they were split off even before Ilsundal's migration. How they got to the Isle of Dawn is uncertain, but it possibly has something to do with the Aranea (whose dispersion between the IoD, Isle of Dread, and Savage Coast is in itself mysterious). There are no Awari "nations", but they live dispersed throughout the forests of the IoD in small treetop communities. They are overall fairly xenophobic and tend to speak only Elvish, Phanaton, Treant, Pixie, Bugbear, and sometimes (though not often) the local human language. Awari communities include Theoness (in northern Dunadale), Trueflower's Glen (near Trikelios in the highlands), and Bab Gurughach, a trading post in the woods at the south edge of Provincia Septentriona where they trade with the local Alasiyan-Thyatin humans. Pixies and associate Spritely races abound on the IoD, especially in the Dunadale area (around the bogs), and they often live amongst Awari and vice versa. Coltpixies are found in the plains and less dense woodlands, and when Awari need to travel far they ride these faerie horses. One monster which plagues the Awari is the Wyrd, which is common in the bogs and is thought by the elves to be related to will o wisps in some way. Awari are generally on good terms with Phanaton but prefer not to get involved in the Phanaton's war with the Aranea unless absolutely necessary. Awari receive occasional visits from a tribe of pegataurs who live in a series of caves high above the Aurora river valley, a community the pegataurs call "Tehirom" ... the Awari think of the pegataurs as minor superior beings. one famous hero of the Awari is Gitani Wodenspeare, a fighter-druid who took up the life of the sea aboard an Ostlander longship, eventually acquired his own ship, and set out to circumnavigate the globe ... he eventually did so and not only that, he managed to make his way through the polar ice and sail around the hollow world as well. he is not actually very well known in the KW though the Alphatians keep tabs on him. He has recently returned to the IoD at Trikelios and is making his way back home. at one point in his voyage he also met the young Mehirgwdy prince Jarakesh, who will soon become an important figure in IoD politics. most of the Awari are not so well travelled however. they are good hunters and know a lot about various woodland magics but they are decidedly anti-cosmopolitan people. much of their trade with the humans of the IoD is in the form of low grade magic items such as potions which they make according to their traditional recipes. they tend to be uninvolved in the affairs of the more civilized Nyneti Elven Clan in the southeast, and they stay away from the Drow and Bugbears whenever possible (though they occasionally have to defend themselves from raids - often with the help of the treants, who are normally neutral to bugbears but will attack them to preserve balance when necessary). The Awari also are actually on relatively peaceable terms with the Xvarts or Blue Goblins whom the Alphatians brought to the IoD as mercenaries in recent decades; the other good-aligned races are quite hostile to the pestiferous Xvarts but the Awari engage in trade with them as the Xvarts are skilled in areas of magic and medicine unknown to the Awari. The Awari have no regular interactions with the Hunakoi (sandstone giants) but are not hostile to them. i could probably ramble on this more but i have papers to finish, it's finals week here. peace, m@2 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:28:44 -0500 From: Philippe Lazzaroni Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series What's that "B1-9 collection" you are talking about? Never heard of... where can I get it? Philipppe - ---------- > From: "Galwylin" > To: "Mystara Mailing List" > Subject: [Mystara] 'B' Series > Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:05:37 -0600 > >I was wondering if anyone has all the 'B' modules and the 'B1-9' >collection. Is B1-9 just all the individual modules stuffed together or >have they added or subtracted something. I was just wondering if I should >stick with the individual ones or be better off getting a copy of the >mega-set. With my nature I'll probably think I'll need to get both but >maybe I can talk myself out of it ;) > >Galwylin >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - > >Email: galwylin@airnet.net >Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ > >Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! >http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:50:31 -0500 From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series Modules B1 through B9 were collected into a volume called "B1-9 In Search of Adventure". It wasn't too badly done. The modules were strung together in a continuing story arc that takes the players through what, at that time, was still the Grand Duchy of Karameikos. One thing I did notice was that not much of B1 managed to survive the edit. I think it was broken up into filler between a couple of the other adventures if I remember correctly. All in all, the volume was pretty decent. It was, and still is, very difficult to find most of those old adventures so if you stumble on this collection, I would recommend grabbing it. Ray Philippe Lazzaroni wrote: > > What's that "B1-9 collection" you are talking about? Never heard of... where > can I get it? > > Philipppe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:07:55 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series You need both :) In B1-9, they added a link to tie all the adventures together, and added a little background materials. But they took out most of background materials in the original modules and the non-main part of the adventure. Only one or two modules in there were complete. For example, in Keep of the Borderland, the keep was removed, just leaving the caves. In Horror on the Hills, the short wilderness adventures before you reach the dungeon were removed. So, basiclly you need B1-9 just to have everything in one place, and it is also easier to obtain than try to track down all 9 of the original modules, but need each indivdual module if you want the complete version. I don't remember which modules were unchanged in B1-9, as a friend of mine lost my copy a long time ago. I'm certain Rhdasia(sp) was suppose to be complete, but I'm not sure wether there are another module in there that was uncut. But hay, even Rhdasia, I later brought the original one just for the cover, and able to say I'm one step closer to complete my collection. :) - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:25:15 EST From: Dleggend Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded In a message dated 97-12-10 10:43:28 EST, you write: << After looking at Skills and Powers and the relative experience tables between fighter, priest, and mystic. They should probably have the fighter THAC0. You can almost make the Mystic from the skills and powers rules and keep the priest XP table, giving them fighter THAC0, Con and Str bonuses etc. So I think it should be OK to give them fighter stats with their current XP table. Different question about Mystics. Should they be able to gain weapon specialization as fighters? >> I agree with the Thac0 (Fighters) I don't think they should get exceptional strength or the extra hp bonus like fighters. I don't think they should be able to specialize because they are more concerned with martial arts combat then combat with weapons. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:03:13 EST From: Dleggend Subject: [Mystara] ark maps I finally uploaded all the Princess Ark maps at my page. Dleggend http://members.aol.com/dleggend/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:51:31 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic to AD&Ded In a message dated 97-12-10 10:43:28 EST, starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens- tech.edu writes: << Different question about Mystics. Should they be able to gain weapon specialization as fighters? >> One approach -- rule that they are a warrior subclass like Paladins and Rangers and therefore not eligible for weapon specialization. My preferred approach -- if the weapon is a melee weapon -- sure, no problem, they will soon do better with their bare hands anyway. If the weapon is a missile weapon -- by the D&D Rules Cyclopedia parallels, I would say yes, but I am reluctant to allow what would basically be an extra ability for the Mystic. So I would allow a Mystic to specialize in melee weapons only. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:14:10 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: [Mystara] The Mystara Quiz, answers Mystara Quiz 1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara. Thanatos, and Rad(currently keeping his identity a secret in Glantri) 2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? Yav(he didn't know, he was sponsored by Khoronus) 3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? Schattenalfheim elves 4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? Brokk, who wager his head against Loki on who would make better gifts. 5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? Klinty of Lake Klintest 6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? Franich, Pennydown and Mauntea. 7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? 7, his oldest is attending the Dreams of the Desert Garden University in Ylaraum. 8.What is the original name of Mirros? Marilenev 9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? In Highshire, of the Five Shire 10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? It dies after being pulled out 11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? City of the Stars, Shadow Elves Territory 12.What is patshatl? 13.Name are least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. Terari(path of Dynasty), Popalatl(Path of polymath), Synn(path of Entropy), and Eriadna(path of dynasty{resurrected by immortals to save Alphatia for the second time}), and i'll Throw in, Hule's Master of the Desert, Hosadus(Path of Dynasty, resurrected by Loki, to save Hule, Once) 14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? 9 15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? It the capital of Floating Ar, and it's a floating island. 16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? In the Malpheggi Swamp, before the Nithians destroyed them on the Surface world, prior to the Earthquake that form the Ierendei Islands. 17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? It is an Artifact that Destroying Nithia, and erase any memory of Nithian culture, and it's found in the Emirate of Nithia. 18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? The Wogar Cup is a Mushroom that grows in the Lower Broken Lands, and I think it hold up to 2 quarts of fermented nectar. 19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? Lord Brannart Mcgregor, and Prince Harald of Sablestone 20.What and where are the Dreamlands? They are the Land of the Fey folk, and they are located at the good magic Points of Alfheim. These are my answers are to the best of my ability. Mystara Online: Http:\\members.tripod.com\Mktriton\Index.html Bring All Adventures to Mystara, coming soon to Mystara, Rod of Seven Parts' adaptation to Mystara. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #225 ***************************** mystara-digest Thursday, December 11 1997 Volume 02 : Number 226 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:29:26 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series I've seen B1-9 offered over the net occasionally but have managed to control my desires (the $40 a pop didn't hurt either) but I guess I'll be in search mode after Christmas. My collection of the originals are nearing completion and I was so hoping B1-9 was just all of them in one book. Oh well, what's money for away ;) Thanks for the info, everyone! BTW, I think someone had mentioned B10... I've always considered that a great module that had lots of things you could use (not to mention the main adventure was pretty neat). I'd recommend grabbing a copy if you see one. - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:21:04 -0500 From: Philippe Lazzaroni Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series >I've seen B1-9 offered over the net occasionally but have managed to control my desires (the $40 a pop didn't hurt either) but I guess I'll Can you give me some links where I could find it? Thanks Philippe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:20:53 -0800 From: David Keyser Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series Here is the breakdown of the content of B1-9 B1 - Only includes the map from the module, no text description. B2 - Includes maps and texts of the caves, nothing on the keep. B3 - Completely includes all text and maps. B4 - Includes only the first five levels of the pyramid, the 6-10 levels are not included, neither is the outline for further adventures. B5 - The monastery and dungeons are included, but not the wilderness encounters. B6 - The text and maps of the module are complete, but the cutouts and extra fluff are not included. B7 - Completely included, all text and maps. B8 - Includes only one of three possible routes, each route has its own set of encounters. B9 - Four out of five adventures are included. So if you want all the content, you need to have B1-9 along with B1, B2, B4, B5, B8, and B9. You only need B6 if you really have to have the cutouts, which I think are similar to the stuff in GAZ9(I don't have B6). Dave Keyser ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:45:16 -0800 From: Sheer El-Showk Subject: [Mystara] sorry I know this must be annoying but can someone please spell out the acronyms so commonly used on this list. I don't have most of the books except the old Gazateer and I'm trying to catch up with the mystara presence on the internet (which I've only recenlty become aware of -- it was never called mystara in the first set so I didn't know they were one and the same). Thanks, Sheer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:43:26 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re:[d&d classes/Iod] At 14.22 10/12/97 +0100, Nils Holger Németh wrote: >>There are some distinctly Nordic sounding villages in Westrourke, and in GAZ7 it is mentioned that Ostland has agreements with Thyatis to settle the Isle of Dawn. I'd say it's a combination of the two folk... >Has anyone developed it further than Gaz 7, DoE and the PWAs? They've been developed in 1014 AC Mystaran Net-Almanac IIRC. >BTW: I seem to remember something about Malpheggi Swamp being a by-product of the Alfheim woods spell (subterranean tunnels sending water from alfheim to malpheggi (gaz5 (the only one I *don't* have :-() - now that the spell is out of effect, shouldnŽt malpheggi be drying up? There was a flood about 1010 because of the Masters meteor, but Malpheggi really should be drying up, right? The Alfheim spell was only one of the sources of Malpheggi Swamp, while Streel river is certainly the main source. Anyway you're right, the swamp will probably reduce in size after 1010 and the Almanac team knows this very well. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:12:12 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Request: Mystara Netbook in Word format At 09.04 10/12/97 +0100, Danny De Bie wrote: DDoes anybody know where I can find a copy of the Mystara Netbook in Word format? I can find a copy in Wordperfect format but my MSWord 'translates' it horribly... I also found a copy of it at Nostradomus Vault but there are serious flaws in it :( Do you mean the 1014 Mystaran Net-Almanac or something else? If you mean the net almanac you can download the doc version from my Home Page, DM home page, Herve's home page, MPGN.... ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:20:52 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Galwylin wrote: >I was wondering if anyone has all the 'B' modules and the 'B1-9' collection. Is B1-9 just all the individual modules stuffed together or have they added or subtracted something. I was just wondering if I should stick with the individual ones or be better off getting a copy of the mega-set. With my nature I'll probably think I'll need to get both but maybe I can talk myself out of it ;) I don't have all the B modules- something like 4 or 5 of them- but for the most part, B1-9 reprints them in their entirety. Some sections from B3? (Lost City) are lost, as is the Keep from B2 (Keep on the Borderlands). Rahasia was originally a tournament module, so may lack the scoring bits (which may or may not have even been included in the module itself). I think there is an adventure or two from B9: Castle Caldwell and Beyond that got snipped, and the mountain encounters from B5: Horror on the Hill are snipped. Also, very little of B1: Journey to the Unknown is in B1-9, save for the map of the dungeon in the back, and a mention of the lair of that wizard and fighter (forget their names). B1 was a fill-i your own encounters adventure for the most part, though. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:23:28 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re:[d&d classes/Iod] On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Nils Holger =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=E9meth?= Berg wrote: >BTW: I seem to remember something about Malpheggi Swamp being a by-product of the Alfheim woods spell (subterranean tunnels sending water from alfheim to malpheggi (gaz5 (the only one I *don't* have :-() - now that the spell is out of effect, shouldnŽt malpheggi be drying up? There was a flood about 1010 because of the Masters meteor, but Malpheggi really should be drying up, right? >Bad news for Port Tenobar- they will probably be sieged by starving lizardmen (time for some good olŽ monsterbashing (or the DDC)). Well, i have rambled enough. Who have you been talking to? That's a pretty good guess at some plans in the making for the Malpheggi region that we've in store. :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:08:11 -0500 From: Aron Reif Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi At 12:03 PM 12/9/97 EST, you wrote: ><< Well, I have it, but I haven't read it since I originally bought it, which wwas 4-5 years ago, so I tend to forget the details... >> >Do it! >O.k., Kastelios is a Milenian city-state in Davania. A neighbour of Kastelios is >Garganin, a forgotten Hulean colony. >Jamuga Khan Ok, I will, maybe if I have time over the Christmas break. Aron Reif areif@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:10:09 -0500 From: Aron Reif Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series At 01:29 PM 12/10/97 -0600, you wrote: >Thanks for the info, everyone! BTW, I think someone had mentioned B10... I've always considered that a great module that had lots of things you could use (not to mention the main adventure was pretty neat). I'd recommend grabbing a copy if you see one. Hey, if you can tell me where to find a copy, let me know! That's one of the few Mystara/D&D products I don't have. I've been looking for a copy for many years. Aron Reif areif@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:05:07 +1100 From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (stan) Subject: [Mystara] Re: Mystara Quiz Hello All I won't bother trying to answer all the questions since people seem to have been doing that pretty accurately already just some things I haven't seen answered yet. >5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? >Lake Klintest in Rockhome (name's Klintie IIRC) The one that came straight to mind here was that one from X13, maybe it was just the horrible memory of a almost drowning whilst crossing the lake due to our boat being capsized by the thing. Can't remember its name though. Oh that's it Lochnar, such an original name. >13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. >Barimoor, Mylertendal, the twisted treant from PC1 and Synn (i think) I'm glad that a couple of people suggested Travesitis - I always thought the idea of an evil treant pretty cool, even though in the adventure you were meant to thwart his plans. I suggested a little while back in my "almost immortals" posting that Travesitis was not hindered in his plan. I also suggested that he probably had a bit of a hand in the Shadow Elf takeover of Alfheim thereby completing his testimony and getting him one step closer to immortality. Any thoughts? Shawn Stanley, Department of Geology, Australian National University. http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:43:54 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: [Mystara] [Fwd: Re: Mystara] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------6FB71FF7A1B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I finally asked the one in charge to get a definite answer about the statis of Mystara and here it is. - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm - --------------6FB71FF7A1B Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from fungusaur.wizards.com (199.238.208.6) by goliath.airnet.net (WorldMail 1.3.122) for galwylin@airnet.net; 10 Dec 1997 20:12:15 -0600 Received: from tsr-reid ([10.1.1.9]) by fungusaur.wizards.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA11642; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:14:09 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971210180257.0090cdb0@castle.wizards.com> X-Sender: treid@castle.wizards.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:02:57 -0800 To: "Galwylin" From: "Thomas M. Reid" Subject: Re: Mystara In-Reply-To: <3480617200002BB0@goliath.airnet.net> (added by goliath.airnet.net) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:35 AM 12/1/97 -0600, you wrote: >I was just wondering if there are any plans for release of products for Mystara or is it a dead world now? Well, the answer to your question is not a simple yes or no. We are not currently planning to release any more products for the MYSTARA(TM) line. However, we never consider a line to be dead. If at some time down the road we figure it would be profitable to start that line up again, we'll seriously consider it. But at this point, I would say it is unlikely. Thomas M. Reid Brand Manager, ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS(R) and PLANESCAPE(R) lines - --------------6FB71FF7A1B-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:33:55 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series >From: "Galwylin" >To: "Mystara Mailing List" Subject: [Mystara] 'B' Series >Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:05:37 -0600 >I was wondering if anyone has all the 'B' modules and the 'B1-9' collection. Is B1-9 just all the individual modules stuffed together or have they added or subtracted something. I was just wondering if I should stick with the individual ones or be better off getting a copy of the mega-set. With my nature I'll probably think I'll need to get both but maybe I can talk myself out of it ;) I have the B1-9 collection and some of the 'B' modules. From B1-9 itself it is apparent that some editing and omissions occurred -- deleted sections are actually mentioned in that product. If you have all of the modules, then all that B1-9 would add for you would be the localizing of the adventures to various places in Karameikos as well as a campaign outline for running them as a linked series. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 00:39:33 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series Those looking for old games products check the Hit Pointe and Sage's Guild (found two of em but one is $50.. ouch!!). Couldn't find a single copy of B10... it seemed to be missing everywhere though the modules before and after it are available ;/ I'll keep my eye out for one in the auctions I check. While I was looking around I found something I'd been wanting... Trail Maps!! Now if they have them in stock... BTW, all online stores I visited can be found on my links page. - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:50:22 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Mystara Quiz At 12.05 11/12/97 +1100, stan wrote: >I'm glad that a couple of people suggested Travesitis - I always thought the idea of an evil treant pretty cool, even though in the adventure you were meant to thwart his plans. I suggested a little while back in my "almost immortals" posting that Travesitis was not hindered in his plan. I also suggested that he probably had a bit of a hand in the Shadow Elf takeover of Alfheim thereby completing his testimony and getting him one step closer to immortality. Any thoughts? Interesting. I completely forgot about him when writing my stuff about the conquest of Alfheim. Now I'll look back at PC1 and maybe revise my Timeline of the takover of Alfheim. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:04:50 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Font Hello, Does anybpdy know where can I get the Palatino font that TSR uses in Savage Coast Campaign book? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:06:46 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re: [Mystara] sorry I don't have a definitive last handy, but IIRC (if I recall correctly) they are in the FAQ (frequently asked questions). Could the FAQ maintainer please repost? >I know this must be annoying but can someone please spell out the acronyms so commonly used on this list. I don't have most of the books except the old Gazateer and I'm trying to catch up with the mystara presence on the internet (which I've only recenlty become aware of -- it was never called mystara in the first set so I didn't know they were one and the same). >Thanks, >Sheer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:40:37 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Request: Mystara Netbook in Word format At 23.12 10/12/97 +0100, Fabrizio wrote: AAt 09.04 10/12/97 +0100, Danny De Bie wrote: DDDoes anybody know where I can find a copy of the Mystara Netbook in Word format? I can find a copy in Wordperfect format but my MSWord 'translates' it horribly... I also found a copy of it at Nostradomus Vault but there are serious flaws in it :( >Do you mean the 1014 Mystaran Net-Almanac or something else? If you mean the net almanac you can download the doc version from my Home Page, DM home page, Herve's home page, MPGN.... Actually, i think he's referring to Mystara Netbook 2 by Estlor and Matrix. I've got it in my webpage, but it's the old version i found in Estlor's page (and i think it's in Wordperfect). however, it never gave me any problems with my Word6 or Word97 or Word95... U'd probably better buy a more advanced program (Word97 in Office 97 is the best i can think of) DM http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Check out the Uploads of the Month!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:25:44 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Cthulhudrew's Mystics Great work Andrew! A good class, some of the previous defects have now been balanced, though i'd have raised a bit the XP required (say begin with 2,200 instead of 2,000..). Anyway, good options, but i've some questions (as usual ;)): 1. Thief abilities: i'd leave out the Climb Walls ability. The Acrobatics general skill as a bonus does seem enough for me. Don't see the Mystics as being able to climb walls like a thief but more like being able to jump and make incredible moves as per Acrobatics skill (i think the skill is described in GAZ12 -but u know it :)). 2. Smash and Set Spears options: the second is not appropriate IMHO (mystics using riding animals? with their own speed? why?), while the first... do u consider it as per normal rules (i.e. using a weapon) or is it intended with barehands too? In the latter case, it's not good... 3. Parry: can they parry barehanded? 4. Number of attacks: you list 4/1: what does it mean? 4 barehanded and 1 with a weapon? If so, i think it's a good choice.. 5. Willpower: too much powerful IMHO. I'd give them Resist Fire and Resist Cold at levels 9 and 14, putting Speak with Anyone in the place of Resistence, Resistence in the place of Mind Block and Mind Block at level 22.6. Special Restrictions: When fighting using their specialty style, they may not use a magical weapon.: ok, i've not understood this, what do u refer to when u say "their specialty style"? And aagain: "Mystics may never have a higher level of Weapon Mastery in any weapon style other than their primary specialty. They must have achieved Grand Mastery in their primary style before raising any other style to Grand Master." What is this primary style and how does it affect weapons Mastery? And also, u spoke of Weapon Mastery with barehand combat: how can this be? where are the tables? In RC (since they're not in old Master set)? i'd be glad if u shed some light on this (which is the point i've not really understood). I haven't yet foreseen the possible repercussions of the damage inflicted by a Mystic, but i think it's less problematic then the old Mystic who had 6 attacks at maximum level! :) well done Andrew DM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:48:40 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Some people bring bad luck here... Hey, who said that surely the MPGN won't have experienced another "blackout" by the time the MML will have been there? Fabrizio, was it you? cause u know... the day after i read this i began experiencing strange problems with MPGN: basically my server CANNOT LOCATE MPGN ANYMORE!!! Hey Brizio, when and how did u acquire the Bad Luck spell? [menagramo!] ;) DM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:12:34 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [Mystara] sorry In fact the list of acronyms is not in the FAQ, but in a separate list I compiled some time ago. It can be found on my homepage, but I repost it for people who have no web-access but just mail: (BTW I haven't updated it even though I discovered I was missing some acronyms like GRoF= Great Rain of Fire, oh well) List of Mystara relevant acronyms version 1.0 by Hervé Musseau AC or A.C. (After Crowning of the first Emperor of Thyatis). To calculate dates according to the Thyatian calendar. AC# (Accessory #). Series of adventures and rule supplements(OD&D). The PWAs also have AC as a code (OD&D and AD&D). AE (Alfheim Elves). The main group of surface elves of the KW. AY or A.Y. (Alphatian Year). To calculate dates according to the Alphatian calendar. B# (Basic #). Series of adventures for basic level of play (OD&D). BC or B.C. (Before Crowning of the first Emperor of Thyatis). To calculates dates according to the Thyatian calendar. CAS (Clark Ashton Smith). Author of short stories that have inspired Mystara's Nouvelle Averoigne. CM# (Companion #). Series of adventures for companion level of play (OD&D). CoM (Champions of Mystara). Campaign extension describing the area between the KW and the SC, and skyships (OD&D). DA# (Blackmoor #). Series of adventures set in the Blackmoor era (OD&D). DDA# (Challenger adventure #). Series of adventures set in the KW (OD&D). DDC (Darokin Diplomatic Corps). Darokin's network of diplomats and spies. DMR# (Challenger rules #). Series of rules supplements (OD&D). DotE (Dawn of the Empires). Campaign extension describing the empires of Thyatis and Alphatia (OD&D). G:KoM (Glantri : Kingdom of Magic). Campaign setting (AD&D). GAZ# or Gaz# (Gazetteer #). Series of books describing the countries of the KW (OD&D). HK (Heldannic Knights). Knights of Vanya that rule in Heldann. HW (Hollow World). The inner world of Mystara. HWA# and HWQ1 (Hollow World Adventure #). Series of adventures (OD&D). HWR# (Hollow World Rule #). Series of campaign extension (OD&D). IM# (Immortal #). Series of adventures for immortal level of play (OD&D). IoD (Isle of Dawn). Region of the KW. JA (Joshuan's Almanac). Book describing the KW and one year of events (AD&D). K:KoA (Karameikos : Kindom of Adventure). Campaign setting (AD&D). KPE (Karameikan Polar Expedition). Expedition that went to the HW and back. KW (Known World). In earlier OD&D products, the region of the world that had been mentioned in module X1. Later refers to the area described in the GAZs, or, more generally, the "civilized" area of the world (from a Thyatian PoV), ranging from the Sind Desert to Alphatia. M or M- (Mystara). Prefix commonly apposed to our real world names to make temporary equivalents for the world of Mystara until they get a new name (e.g. MOrient). M# (Master #). Series of adventures for master level of play (OD&D). MML or mml (Mystara Mailing List). Where Mystarans discuss the world. MoA (Mark of Amber). Adventure (AD&D). NACE (New Alphatian Confederate Empire). Name of the empire that succeeded the NAE. NAE (New Alphatian Empire). Name of the remains of the Alphatian Empire after Alphatia's sinking. NoS (Nucleus of Spheres). Artifact, source of the Radiance. O# (One-on-one #). Series of one-on-one adventures (OD&D). OD&D or D&D (Original or Old D&D). Old D&D, as opposed to AD&D. PC# (Creature Crucible #). Series of campaign extensions for monster races as PCs (OD&D). PWA or PWA# (Poor Wizard's Almanac #). Series of books describing the world and one year of events (OD&D and AD&D). RC (Rules Cyclopedia). Compilation of the old rules, with Mystara extension (OD&D). RS (Red Steel). Name of the setting describing the SC. Also, the name of a substance found only there (AD&D). SA (Schattenalfen). The underground elves of the HW. SC (Savage Coast). An area of Mystara west of the KW suffering from the Red Curse. SE (Shadow Elves). The underground elves of the KW. TM# or ETM and WTM (Trail Map#). Trail maps of the Eastern and Werstern KW (OD&D). ToL (Tree of Life). Living artifacts of the elves of Alfheim, incarnations of Ilsundal. WDL (Western Defense League). Association of some states of the KW. WotI (Wrath of the Immortals). Adventure and campaign extension describing events from AC 1004 to AC 1010, and the Immortals (OD&D). X# and XL1 (Expert #). Series of adventures for expert level of play (OD&D). XS# and M# (Solo #). Series of solo adventures (OD&D). >I don't have a definitive last handy, but IIRC (if I recall correctly) they are in the FAQ (frequently asked questions). Could the FAQ maintainer please repost? >>I know this must be annoying but can someone please spell out the acronyms so commonly used on this list. I don't have most of the books >>except the old Gazateer and I'm trying to catch up with the mystara presence on the internet (which I've only recenlty become aware of -- it >>was never called mystara in the first set so I didn't know they were one >>and the same). >>Thanks, >>Sheer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:26:56 -0500 (EST) From: rdroe@iupui.edu Subject: [Mystara] B1-9 I think I have posted this link before but there is a store on the web that sells some of the old stuff some of you are looking for. It's called the Hit Pointe. The address is http://www.hitpointe.com They have the B1-9 set and also most of the individual stuff. I think the stuff they are missing is B6 and B8, but they say they will look for anything for you. I have ordered stuff from them before it only took a few weeks to get the stuff from them. Robert D'eath Roe aka Dr. Konijn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:40:06 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Quiz Well I am back from a breif absence caused by a death in the family. Looking over the "IN" box I see that some have been busy. Before I dive into the previous days messages I'll start with this one as it is "off the top of the old head". BTW my answers were compromised since the first response was listed ahead of the original. In a message dated 97-12-09 05:22:41 EST, you write: << Hello, Over on the Forgotten Realms list, there have been from time to time quizzes for those who think they know all about the gaming world. I've put together 20 questions for those of you who want to try. Let's see how knowledgeable you are in the ways of Mystara. If you can answer most of these questions without consulting your sourcebooks, I'll be impressed. Anyway, here it is: Mystara Quiz <<1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara.>> Rad/Etienne (duh) Thanatos/Count Osterhaus (you know the guy running Hattas) Benekander/Rhedderen (sp?) And IIRC either Valerias or Vanya maintained one prior to and during WotI. <<2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path?>> Vague. Depends on whether "unknowingly" includes becoming Immortal was out of their hands such as Rafiel and Benekander. And whether "prerequisite" means as that outlined in Immortals Codex, Rad using Radiance. Khoronus using himself. <<3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves?>> Schattenalfen (sp) and Icevale. Might also include Gentle Folk. <<4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer?>> Hmm....Thor is an Immortal and his hammer would be considered an artifact or at least an immortal enchanted item. I would assume that he made it himself. <<5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)?>> Which one? The one in Rockhome holding Kiky (or something like that) or Dragon Lake in Shadow Elf Territories holding the Dragon Turtle (not sure if it has a name). IIRC there is also a lake with said monster in Darokin. <<6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City?>> Monteu (sp) for sure. Plus one or two others. <<7.How many children does Moglai Khan have?>> Not sure, but the there are several. At least one is old enough to be his heir. <<8.What is the original name of Mirros?>> Speculareum (sp) Not sure of what it was before that. << 9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for?>> Sounds Hinnish so so I assume the Five Shires. No guess on the founder. <<10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora?>> No guess <<11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down?>> City of the Stars, Shadow Elf Territorries <<12.What is patshatl?>> Sounds Azcan or Shadow Elven. Not sure, but since #11 was a SE question it might be a SE fungi used as food or money or something. <<13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates.>> Synn comes to mind. You might also throw in Brannart McGregor since he is attempting to use the Radiance to attain Immortality. <<14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast?>> A whole Box Set full. Between 7 and 10. Not a big RS fan. Do have both boxes. <<15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it?>> Floating Ar says it all. <<16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live?>> The Malpheggi Swamps in Darokin. Might be from one or more of the Ierendi Islands. Cannot remember if they migrated from there to Darokin or the other way around. The Ierendi lizardmen might have been a branch of the main unit, a sort of colony. <<17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found?>> Emerite of Nithia in Ylaruam. Makes those near it lose memory of Nithian Empire of old. Might of also been the means in which Nithia was destroyed. <<18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain?>> Not sure. <<19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance?>> Brannart (ultimate example), Angus (if you consider stunting your age and growth as rotting), Harald (the arm), and one of Brannart's son in laws or nephews. Not sure of name but his chest bears the scars. <<20.What and where are the Dreamlands?>> Alfheim I think. Not sure about what it is. I do recall the Alfheim being asscociated with it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:10:35 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Cthulhudrew's Mystics On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, DM wrote: >Great work Andrew! A good class, some of the previous defects have now been balanced, though i'd have raised a bit the XP required (say begin with 2,200 instead of 2,000..). Anyway, good options, but i've some questions (as usual ;)): I'd probably raise the xp somewhat myself, actually. I was mainly trying to keep it as similar as possible to the current fighter class. Also, I'm not sure, but since Fighters have the option to become spellcasters (Avengers and Paladins) at higher levels, it may help balance things somewhat. At any rate, the Fighter xp table seems to be the middle-most xp table among the OD&D classes. >1. Thief abilities: i'd leave out the Climb Walls ability. The Acrobatics general skill as a bonus does seem enough for me. Don't see the Mystics as being able to climb walls like a thief but more like being able to jump and make incredible moves as per Acrobatics skill (i think the skill is described in GAZ12 -but u know it :)). That's a possibility- or maybe just automatically use the Acrobatics ability of Mystics (with the 10% xp penalty to level out the xp tables). This could allow them the ability to catch themselves that AD&D Monks have. >2. Smash and Set Spears options: the second is not appropriate IMHO (mystics using riding animals? with their own speed? why?), while the first... do u consider it as per normal rules (i.e. using a weapon) or is it intended with barehands too? In the latter case, it's not good... I could see the Set Spears, possibly (in the vein of Chinese Pikemen), in some isolated cases. Again, though, the main thing was to try and keep it as close as possible to the class as it currently stands. >3. Parry: can they parry barehanded? Hmmm... Good question. I'd say so, if that's their primary style of weapon specialization. Something along the lines of an AC type bonus that weapon styles offer at higher levels. >4. Number of attacks: you list 4/1: what does it mean? 4 barehanded and 1 with a weapon? If so, i think it's a good choice.. Actually, I meant it as 4 attacks per round- like mainstream Fighters, and like higher level Mystics. >5. Willpower: too much powerful IMHO. I'd give them Resist Fire and Resist Cold at levels 9 and 14, putting Speak with Anyone in the place of Resistence, Resistence in the place of Mind Block and Mind Block at level 22. That might actually work out better. For one thing, it helps to give a more even distribution of abilities. A lot of the things I put in were "sketchy" items that seemed okay at the time. The only thing about that is, don't the Resist Fire/Cold abilities more or less become negated when they get their Resistance ability? Or should they be cumulative? >6. Special Restrictions: When fighting using their specialty style, they may not use a magical weapon.: ok, i've not understood this, what do u refer to when u say "their specialty style"? And aagain: I mainly mean that they use one "Weapon Choice" at the creation of the character that becomes their primary fighting style. In most cases, this should be some sort of unarmed fighting style (the base I used to determine their abilities was the Striking style in the combat section). Some rare exceptions might allow a weapon style or combo weapon/unarmed style. This was mainly to try and simulate that not all mystics are alike, and to simulate the difference of real world martial arts. Of course, it requires a bit of creativity on the DM's part to make some new fighting styles, but I wrote some up here on the list once, and others have, too. If nothing else, they could just use the two given- Striking and Wrestling (for a Kung-Fu or Boxing style mystic and Sumo mystic, respectively). Again, some styles may allow weapons (Minrothaddan Escrimadors would probably use something like the Dagger table, but substituting knives and escrim sticks for the dagger itself; probably get rid of the double damage and substitute some disarms/deflects). As for the magical weapon, Mystics prefer not to use a magic weapon with their primary style (or magical accessories, in the case of unarmed styles, such as magical cesti, gauntlets, etc.) as that is not a measure of their true ability. They are like Kensai (Oriental Adventures) in this respect. This helps to balance out the fact that they already get plenty of bonuses, etc, *without* having need of magical enhancements. >"Mystics may never have a higher level of Weapon Mastery in any weapon style other than their primary specialty. They must have achieved Grand Mastery in their primary style before raising any other style to Grand Master." What is this primary style and how does it affect weapons Mastery? And also, u spoke of Weapon Mastery with barehand combat: how can this be? where are the tables? In RC (since they're not in old Master set)? i'd be glad if u shed some light on this (which is the point i've not really understood). I probably didn't make it too clear, but I hope the above sheds some light on things. As far as the Grand Mastery, I wanted to try to make sure that PC mystics didn't skirt the rules by getting a higher weapon mastery in other weapons, *until* they reached the point where their primary weapon damage was high enough that they could feel free to wail on people with that. That, and I felt that by disallowing the extra damage, etc, with any weapon other than the primary weapon, it would help to keep the mystics fighting with their main style. >I haven't yet foreseen the possible repercussions of the damage inflicted by a Mystic, but i think it's less problematic then the old Mystic who had 6 attacks at maximum level! :) Higher level mystics (and 36th level mystics in particular) should still be pretty darned tough, but not unbalancingly so, and not at such a low level. At least, that's the theory. :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 1997 15:02:00 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Font >>>>>"A" == Aleksei Andrievski writes: A> Hello, Does anybpdy know where can I get the Palatino font that TSR A> uses in Savage Coast Campaign book? Palatino? Pretty much everywhere. It's a standardish font, so it should be available from Adobe, Monotype, Bitstream, and lots of other places. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Well thaaaaaaat's okay. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:52:02 -0500 From: Aron Reif Subject: Re: [Mystara] B1-9 At 12:26 PM 12/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >I think I have posted this link before but there is a store on the web that sells some of the old stuff some of you are looking for. It's called the Hit Pointe. The address is http://www.hitpointe.com TThey have the B1-9 set and also most of the individual stuff. I think the stuff they are missing is B6 and B8, but they say they will look for anything for you. I have ordered stuff from them before it only took a few weeks to get the stuff from them. unfortunately, still no B10. The quest continues... Aron Reif areif@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:22:14 -0600 From: ccosman@huntingdon.edu (Cecil Cosman) Subject: [Mystara] maps Does anyone kno where I can obtain a map editing prog that runs on the win 3.X platform. It has to have the ability to work with hex maps. It would help if there was a free one but christmas is upon us... ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #226 ***************************** Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:27:08 -0600 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #227 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 0cea0f38d34e7b27ac7e5a62132f0315 mystara-digest Saturday, December 13 1997 Volume 02 : Number 227 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:17:56 +0100 From: Staffan Johansson Subject: Re: [Mystara] maps At 18:22 1997-12-11 -0600, Cecil Cosman wrote: DDoes anyone kno where I can obtain a map editing prog that runs on the win 3.X platform. It has to have the ability to work with hex maps. It would help if there was a free one but christmas is upon us... Try Grid. It's free, hex-based and runs under DOS. I don't have te URL in my head, but search for grid AND pse on Altavista or something. PSE, BTW, is a program that lets you print spell lists for AD&D priests of different denominations, according to what spheres of access they have and what books you use. Real nifty. - -- Staffan Johansson (d96sj@efd.lth.se) Did you know that "gullible" isn't in the dictionary? Look it up. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:48:38 -0500 From: lordvalen@juno.com (Jakklyph Valen Kroe) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara Quiz Sheesh, I only got 4! I look forward to the answers, and enjoy a new appreciation for the company I keep via the MML! Lord Valen http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/1337 On Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:14:00 +0200 (EET) Aleksei Andrievski writes: >Hello, >Over on the Forgotten Realms list, there have been from time to time quizzes for those who think they know all about the gaming world. I've put >together 20 questions for those of you who want to try. Let's see how knowledgeable you are in the ways of Mystara. If you can answer most of >these questions without consulting your sourcebooks, I'll be impressed. >Anyway, here it is: >Mystara Quiz >1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara. >2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? >3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? >4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? >5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? >6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? >7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? >8.What is the original name of Mirros? >9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? >10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? >11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? >12.What is patshatl? >13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. >14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? >15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? >16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? >17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? >18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? >19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? >20.What and where are the Dreamlands? >P.S.I suggest you don't read the others' answers before posting yourself. >I'll post the answers next week. >***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - >but >** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon >us." >** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, >** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to >tread." >***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:36:54 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series Galwylin pontificated: >Couldn't find a single >copy of B10... it seemed to be missing everywhere though the modules before and after it are available Just wondering. What Mystara product does people find most difficult to get ahold of? For me it is Gaz. 9. The only Gaz that I don't have yet. I also having problem finding for Saga of the Shadowlord. I was luck enough to get X10 and B1-9 when they first came out, and found a copy of B10 a while ago. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:32:27 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [FWD] [Mystara] Mystara Quiz - More Answers I passed the Quiz off to the guy I game with who owns most of the GAZ's, PC's, etc., etc. I figured he'd do better than me ;-) Here are his answers. Jenni - ---------------------------- >From: "Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)" >Some of these are tough if I'm not allowed to look them up. The ones I don't know I'm almost certain I know where to look up, but I don't think I can give extensive answers without my references. >Here's what I remember: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jenni A. M. Merrifield [SMTP:strawberry@jamm.com] >>Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 10:42 AM >>To: Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting) >>Subject: [FWD] [Mystara] Mystara Quiz >>Derek: >>I haven't a hope in heck of answering most of these questions, but I thought you might be interested in trying your hand at this Quiz sent out on the MML. >>Jenni :-) >>>Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:14:00 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski >>>Hello, >>>Over on the Forgotten Realms list, there have been from time to time quizzes for those who think they know all about the gaming world. I've ppput >>>together 20 questions for those of you who want to try. Let's see how knowledgeable you are in the ways of Mystara. If you can answer most of these questions without consulting your sourcebooks, I'll be impressed. Anyway, here it is: >>>Mystara Quiz >>>1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara. >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >Rad as Stephen Amber, and the "survivor" from the Beagle. I'd have to look up his name in the Hollow World set. >>>2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >The survivor of the Beagle I mentioned above, and the latest patron of the Shadow Elves. (Names elude me, just now.) >>>3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >Shattenalfen. >>>4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >The mulder dwarves, a.k.a. mordrigswerg. BTW: I think Mjolnir is spelt with one "l." >>>5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >I think it is in lake Akesoli; I am fairly certain it is some lake in Darokin. Don't remember the name. >>>6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >Hmm. Umbarth, Toney, ... . The one headed up by a Ylari family is based out of Selenica. Another one is headed out of Akorros. What does that leave? I think the rest are headed out of Darokin. Again, I'd have to check to be sure. >>>7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >I don't think he has any. Hence the problem of succession. >>>8.What is the original name of Mirros? >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >Er, before it was called Specularum, you mean? That would be Marilinev. >>>9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? >>>10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >Because it screams when it is pulled from the ground, and the one who did the pulling is likely as not to die from the mystic shriek. >>>11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >Embedded in the World Shield. This is a reference to the main city of the Shadow Elves. >>>12.What is patshatl? >>>13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >Barimoor in Ylaruam, the prophet Al-Kalim in Ylaruam, King Thar in the broken lands, and a female noble in Alphatia whose domain has thousands of little statues. There are a few mentioned in the Dawn of the Emperors set alone. >>>14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? >>>15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >It's floating above Mystara, but it is always on the move. It's a flying city that is populated by all manner of creatures, the main ones of interest being Gnomes, Nagpa, Gremlins, and a flying race (the name starts with 'A', I think) with magical powers created by singing. The city itself flies by using magic energy from spells cast into special receptors. >>>16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >Ancient Nithia. >>>17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? >>>18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? >>>19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >Prince Brannart is one, the Archduke is another. There may be more. >>>20.What and where are the Dreamlands? >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >Dreamlands is two things, really. It is a stable good magic point in the western Alfheim forest, but it also just happens to be the name of the Faerie Court that regularly occurs there. >>>P.S.I suggest you don't read the others' answers before posting yourself. I'll post the answers next week. >[Derek Adam (Andersen Consulting)] >Sounds fair. I'll give more complete answers when I have had a chance to look them up at home. All in all, I'm pretty ashamed of my lack of recall. >In any case, don't post my answers until I've had a chance to do some reading. (Unless that's the point of this exercise!) >Cheers, >Derek - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:54:32 -0700 From: "Patrick" Subject: Acronyms (was Re: [Mystara] sorry) >I know this must be annoying but can someone please spell out the acronyms so commonly used on this list. I don't have most of the books except the old Gazateer and I'm trying to catch up with the mystara presence on the internet (which I've only recenlty become aware of -- it was never called mystara in the first set so I didn't know they were one and the same). This is a very valid question. CoM: Champions of Mystara (OD&D boxed set covering the area west of the known world) WotI: Wrath of the Immortals (OD&D box w/immortal rules and a world-changing 6-year war) DotE: Dawn of the Emperors (OD&D Gazetteer box, Thyatis & Alphatia) HW: Hollow World (OD&D boxed set and series) K:KoA: Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure (AD&D box w/cd describing Karameikos) G:KoM: Glantri: Kingdom of Magic (AD&D box w/ cd describing Karameikos) PWA: Poor Wizards Almanac (a series of two OD&D and one AD&D almanacs describing the world of Mystara and the events of an entire year. PWA1=A.C.1010, PWA2=1011, etc.) OD&D books: B#: Basic adventure (e.g., B10--Night's Dark Terror) X#: Expert adventure (e.g., X1--The Isle of Dread) CM#: Companion-level adventure (e.g., CM4--Earthshaker) MS#: Master-level adventure IM#: Immortal-level adventure PC#: Player Creature accessory: sea people, aeronautic monsters, faery folk, and lycanthropes There are also several others that I can't think of off the top of my head. I hope this helps. Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:52:09 -0500 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: Re: Acronyms (was Re: [Mystara] sorry) Patrick wrote: >K:KoA: Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure (AD&D box w/cd describing Karameikos) >G:KoM: Glantri: Kingdom of Magic (AD&D box w/ cd describing Karameikos) Glantri: Kingdom of Magic describes Karameikos?! No wonder there are so many problems with it! :) Michael. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:12:38 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [Mystara] The Mystaran Holy Grail Shin Chyang Yu meanderd fecklessly... >Just wondering. What Mystara product does people find most difficult to get ahold of? I have a fair amount of Mystara stuff; pretty much most of what I want to ever get (there are a few items I just as soon avoid). The one thing I _really_ want but simply cannot find is B10 Night's Dark Terror. At times I have searched and searched, keeping close watch on Usenet and individual sites, but have found nothing. I currenty have a copy in my possession, but it is a friend's (He is away at school in Alaska and I have a bunch his game stuff.) I need one of my own. Perhaps I should make another attempt on the Net. I had a lot of trouble getting ahold of The Elves of Alfheim. Like B10, I could never find it on the Net or in stores. I finally conned my aforementioned friend out of his, trading it for my copy of Vampire: the Dark Ages, which I had bought on sale. (I later rebought V:tDA). Of course, about half a year later my local game store had two copies in their used bin (Arrgghh!) Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@io.com "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:02:54 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Quiz Answers! OK, since people just can't wait, I'll post the answers now. If you haven't yet answered the quiz and wish to do so, I'll include spoiler space. Most people did well, although everyone fell for my HW elf question ;) Mystara Quiz Answers 1.Name at least two immortals who maintain an active and prominent mortal identity on Mystara. A: Rad and Thanatos are the most obvious. I guess you could also say Vanya and Valerias during WotI, although Valerias's MI wasn't very prominent. 2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? A: Khoronus and Yav are the ones that I know of. Rad, Rafiel, Benekander, Terra, and others are not correct answers because they did *not* complete the path needed for their Sphere. 3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? A: Heh heh. This was a really twisted question. The answer is *none*. If you check carefully, you'll find out that the shadow elves did not become known as such until 1104 BC, when they discovered the Refuge of Stone... and at that time the Schattenalfen were already in the HW. Shame on you, Fabrizio, for not knowing that ;) As a followup, consider this: TSR obviously named Schattenalfen after Shadow Elves... however, it turns out that the Schattenalfen existed *before* Shadow Elves... 4.Who crafted Mjollnir, Thor's hammer? A: The Modrigswerg dwarves. (GAZ7) 5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? A: Lake Klintest, Rockhome, and the dwarves call it Klinta. (GAZ6) 6.Which merchant houses of Darokin are based in Darokin City? A: Mauntea, Franich, Pennydown. (GAZ11) 7.How many children does Moglai Khan have? A: 13 - 6 sons and 7 daughters. (GAZ12) 8.What is the original name of Mirros? A: Another trick question ;) The *original* name of Mirros is Marilenev - Specularum is merely the 'intermediate' name. (GAZ1) 9.Where is Nob's Boots and who was it not named for? A: It's a village in Five Shires, and it's *not* named for the great halfling hero Nob Nar (many people didn't read the question with enough attention). (GAZ8) 10.Why is it difficult to harvest mandragora? A: It shrieks horribly which can likely cause death. (GAZ3) 11.Where in the world can you find a city that is built upside down? A: City of Stars, Shadow Elf caverns. Although 'upside down' is a relative term on Mystara, really. ;) (GAZ13) 12.What is patshatl? A: A celebration feast that Turtle Clan organizes, which can last as long as for a week. (GAZ14) 13.Name ar least four persons who are currently Immortal candidates. A: Well, a lot of choices here, really. Some are Barimoor, Terari, Mylertendal, Travestis, Kaladan Mastershaper, Leo Variantia, Brannart McGregor (not really a candidate as such, he's merely trying to attain Immortality using Radiance), Master of Hule (?), Starwatcher, ... No shortage of Immortal candidates on Mystara ;) 14.How many baronies are there on the Savage Coast? A: Oh, I just love those trick questions *evil grin*. If you count carefully, you'll notice that there are no less than 14 baronies on the Savage Coast. Here's a list: Vilaverde Texeiras Torreon Narvaez Gargoña Almarron Saragon Avarica Nemausa Sedhuen Uthuinn Mohesia Savaria Bregoigne Additionally, you could consider Guadalante and Cimmaron, but they aren't called 'baronies' and are not ruled by barons. 15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? A: It's the capital of Floating Ar, situated on a large flying isle. BTW, did anyone notice that it was marked on Alphatia map in PWA1, even though it isn't supposed to be there? 16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? A: Ierendi Isles, although these were part of the mainland before... I haven't seen any reference anywhere that the lizardmen lived in Malpheggi Swamp. 17.What is the Bead of Oblivion and where can it be found? A: It's the artifact beneath Surra-Man-Ra in Ylaruam, which erases all knowledge of Nithian Empire from the minds of anyone passing nearby. (GAZ2) 18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? A: It's an underground fungus, and it can contain approximately three ogres. (GAZ10) 19.Which people have acquired the rotting disease from the Radiance? A: Harald of Haaskinz, Brannart McGregor, Alasdair McAllister (many of you have forgotten him). (GAZ3) 20.What and where are the Dreamlands? A: An easy question for a change ;) It's the faerie realm, accessed from southwest Alfheim. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:02:04 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Quiz Answers! At 11.02 12/12/97 +0200, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >OK, since people just can't wait, I'll post the answers now. If you haven't yet answered the quiz and wish to do so, I'll include spoiler space. >Most people did well, although everyone fell for my HW elf question ;) >Mystara Quiz Answers >3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? >A: Heh heh. This was a really twisted question. The answer is *none*. If you check carefully, you'll find out that the shadow elves did not become known as such until 1104 BC, when they discovered the Refuge of Stone... and at that time the Schattenalfen were already in the HW. Shame on you, Fabrizio, for not knowing that ;) I'm the Shadow Elves expert, not the Schattenalfen one, you should ask Thorfinn for Schattenalfen :) Seriously, I'm not sure about this beacuse canon is controversial about SE-SA relationship, but I guess you're correct. >5.Where is a huge lake monster found, and what is its name (not Nessie)? A: Lake Klintest, Rockhome, and the dwarves call it Klinta. (GAZ6) But is it bigger than the Dragon Turtle in Dragon Lake? I knew this, but my love of Shadow Elves pointed me in the wrong direction... >8.What is the original name of Mirros? >A: Another trick question ;) The *original* name of Mirros is Marilenev - Specularum is merely the 'intermediate' name. (GAZ1) I knew this too, but I wasn't sure because there's also a town named Marilenev IIRC. >15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? A: It's the capital of Floating Ar, situated on a large flying isle. BTW, did anyone notice that it was marked on Alphatia map in PWA1, even though it isn't supposed to be there? Why not? If it's on floating island it's still there after WotI. >16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? A: Ierendi Isles, although these were part of the mainland before... I haven't seen any reference anywhere that the lizardmen lived in Malpheggi Swamp. Ierendi Island were once part of the mainland. They stayed right were now there's the Malpheggi Swamp, didn't they? Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:27:08 -0600 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #227 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 0cea0f38d34e7b27ac7e5a62132f0315 >18.What is Wogar's Cup and what is the approximate volume it can contain? A: It's an underground fungus, and it can contain approximately three ogres. (GAZ10) This I should have known... :( - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:42:36 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Module Idea At 23.50 01/07/97 -0700, you wrote: >Say- A thought just occurred to me. Has anyone ever considered playing module X1: Isle of Dread, as a sort of Mystaran Jurassic Park? You know, a wealthy Minrothaddan/Ierendi/Thyatian entrepreneur learns of the island and decides to use it as a resort park for travellers. >If nothing else, it could be used as a followup scenario to the one presented in X1. Ie, years after exploring and mapping the Isle, the adventurers learn that it is being utilized as a resort. They must set off immediately to warn the tourists of the dangers!!! That's a really nice idea. We could put it in the next almanac as an adventure hook for players (and do you have already thought about Lost World, the second part of the adventure?:)) I once had this idea about the Isle of Dread: some powerful and important adventurer go there and subjugate many monsters, then creates a park of adventures (much like Gastenoo's on Ierendi) with the monsters he puts in there (for example a dragon who gets "into business" with the adventurer: you make yourself beat a bit by the tourist and i give you a small amount of the month treasure)... But then not all the isle is controlled by the adventurer and many monsters can creep in and become dangerous... DM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:39:12 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] It's incredible: a miracle in the Net (was: Module Idea) OH MY GOSH!!! This is what i call a real event of time-space distortion! Look at the date at the beginning of the letter: >At 23.50 01/07/97 -0700, you wrote: This letter was lost in the Cyberocean some 5 months ago and now it's resurfaced again... much like the fate of one of our almanac's correspondants... UNBELIEVABLE!! this really shocked me... 8| DM (still puzzled..) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:33:25 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages Going over the Ierendi Gaz, I noticed a little bit of info that actually supports the Alphatian Council of 1000 Wizards. Looking at the section for Honor Island, you will notice that most, if not all of the island's human inhabitants are spellcasters. It notes that those that are slow to learn spellcasting are aided with scrolls, magic items, and such. So since Alphatia is so magically oriented, it is logical that the Alphatians are also capable of means to nourish and promote those with even a small amount of spellcasting ability. Now the Honor Island wizards halt level advancement at about 20+ level. Mention is made about them turning their attentions to the research and promotion of the volcano. Now, the Alphatians have no concerted effort to halt level advancement. After each is apprenticed, each is left to their own to advance level wise. Given the possible overall number of Alphatian mages, it is possible for a large number to exceed 30th level. Most Alphatian Rulers are not of 36th level. This denotes that they have to assert their attentions toward their domain. As such, 36th level mages would be free willed and disinterested in politics. As high level mages they already have a high level of power there is little reason for them to pursue political power. For most, accepting a seat at the Council is as political as they will get. Here is how I see the Alphatian Council- 1000 Alphatian mages of 36th level. This number not being all of the highest ranking mages, but the 1000 most prominent and pro-Empire. As such, they tend to act in the best interest of the Empire. The post is not a dramatic one. Few members actually attend regularly. Most opt to attend only in regards to major events such as war or internal problems. Most members are content to pursue their own interests in either Alphatia or elswhere on KW. There are surely to be rivalries between various mages. A mage's allies would mainly consist of those he/she taught. This apprentice/teacher aspect could also be the root of much rivalry. A concerted effort to unite the Council on a subject would be difficult. This is not to say that the rival mages oppose each other politically using the Council. On the contrary, any serious dispute would simply be handled by a duel. IMO the Council is a balance of power against the Emperor. Unless the Emperor does something to warrant Council action, then the Council is content to keep to itself and each mages' own "little projects". So the Council is of little actual power nor is it willing. During Tylion's (Terari) reign the Council wanted him removed. None wanted to step forward to challenge him down. So the Council approached Eriadna to ask her father to step down. This shows the lack of will of the Council to get their hands dirty with politics. In closing, I do feel that a Council of 1000 36th level mages is possible. IMO it would be difficult to get all of the Council to attend, therefore it would take a miracle to get them to act. Their power is limited in only opposing the Emperor. Until needed, they are left to their own pursuits. For lack of a better term, it is an "old boys club". I would also like to point out that the Council has been weakened from the WotI. Some mages were obviously killed, either in combat or due to Week Without Magic. Survivors are spread about the KW as well as the HW. Those in HW cannot meet with their KW fellows and vice versa. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:52:48 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Schattenalfen On Wed, 26 Nov 1997 subZero wrote: >>I think Schattenalfen wasn't supposed to be German, but some nordic language. IIRC the danish word for Elf is Alf and the plural may well be Alfen (I don't speak Danish). Same as Alfheim that should translate into Elves Home or something like that. >Actually the Danish word for Elf is Elver and in plural it is Elvere. although maybe in some of the old supplements it is Alf (plural Alfer) I think it's probably Old Norse that has "alf," "alfen," because Alfheim is also ON I think. Old English is probably quite similar (maybe alf, alfan or something). I did some looking into this, but couldn't confirm it with the books I have here. Thorf. ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:56:46 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Quiz Answers! >3.Which of the Hollow World elven races are descended from the Shadow Elves? >A: Heh heh. This was a really twisted question. The answer is *none*. If you check carefully, you'll find out that the shadow elves did not become known as such until 1104 BC, when they discovered the Refuge of Stone... and at that time the Schattenalfen were already in the HW. Shame on you, Fabrizio, for not knowing that ;) >As a followup, consider this: TSR obviously named Schattenalfen after Shadow Elves... however, it turns out that the Schattenalfen existed *before* Shadow Elves... On second thought: if the Schattenalfen are not descended from the Shadow Elves why are there some followers of Rafiel among the Schattenalfen? This is canon (HW boxed set) and also important for some events in next almanac... - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:17:21 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >Just wondering. What Mystara product does people find most difficult to get ahold of? For me it is Gaz. 9. The only Gaz that I don't have yet. I also having problem finding for Saga of the Shadowlord. I was luck enough to get X10 and B1-9 when they first came out, and found a copy of B10 a while ago. The single most difficult module for me to get was X10, though through luck I finally got a copy from the Dragon's Trove. Next to that, I'd say that X11 (which I have, though my copy is missing the first page or two), and DA4 were really tough to find (again, I actually managed it after a long exhaustive wait). Currently, I'm trying to get my hands on B9: Castle Caldwell and Beyond, but that is seemingly impossible, at least that I've seen thus far. Also, Different Worlds magazines #42 & 43, with the "missing" Blackmoor adventure by Dave Arneson, are pretty tough finds. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:48:58 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:36:54 -0500 (EST) Shin Chyang Yu writes: >Galwylin pontificated: >>Couldn't find a single >>copy of B10... it seemed to be missing everywhere though the modules before and after it are available >Just wondering. What Mystara product does people find most difficult to get ahold of? For me it is Gaz. 9. The only Gaz that I don't have yet. I also having problem finding for Saga of the Shadowlord. I was luck enough to get X10 and B1-9 when they first came out, and found a copy of B10 a while ago. The hardest to get a hold of? Anything I don't have :) Seriously, its true! Not to find, but if I find something I want I have to convince my parents to let me spend my hard-earned money... Me: Dad, I was surfing the web and I found a mailorder company that has a product I want for [insert reasonable price here] Dad: What is it? Me: [insert name of product here] Dad: I am not letting you buy any roleplaying stuff. It will rot your brain!!! Sigh. But the product that was hardest to find for me was X10. I finally found it!!!! But then I ran into the parent problem :( I finally had to ask a friend to get it for me for Hanukhah, and I'm hoping he'll get it for me. >-- >John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:04:49 -0700 From: "Joe Gerber" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Quiz Answers! Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >At 11.02 12/12/97 +0200, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: 1115.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? A: It's the capital of Floating Ar, situated on a large flying isle. BTW, did anyone notice that it was marked on Alphatia map in PWA1, even though it isn't supposed to be there? >Why not? If it's on floating island it's still there after WotI. That's easy--Alphatia isn't still there. (Remember, Floating Ar is still in the Known World.) Joe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 22:34:38 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Quiz Answers! Aleksei Andrievski pontificated: >2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing the requisite path? >A: Khoronus and Yav are the ones that I know of. Rad, Rafiel, Benekander, Terra, and others are not correct answers because they did *not* complete the path needed for their Sphere. I don't remember Yav at all, can anyone remind me? And I thought Khoronus just don't remember how he became an immortal and might be his own sponsor. Didn't Rafiel accidently complete the path of dynast when shadowelves start to worship him? - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:58:02 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series Aaron, tell your parents that as a 16 year veteran of role playing games and a PhD student who aced both the SATs and the GRE (not that I am bragging or anything) I can safely say that role playing games stimulate, rather than rotting the brain .... now if i could just get rid of these waking hallucinations where Demogorgon appears to me personally and asks me to find sacrificial victims for his army of demonic slaves ... seriously the old AD&D is bad for you thing is a really cheesy form of reactionary paranoia. at least you're not spending your allowance on cheap lowgrade smack or 976 numbers. it's good you have friends where parents are unreasonable. happy channukah! m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Aaron E Nowack wrote: >On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:36:54 -0500 (EST) Shin Chyang Yu writes: >>Galwylin pontificated: >>>Couldn't find a single >>>copy of B10... it seemed to be missing everywhere though the modules before and after it are available >>Just wondering. What Mystara product does people find most difficult to get ahold of? For me it is Gaz. 9. The only Gaz that I don't have yet. I also having problem finding for Saga of the Shadowlord. I was luck enough to get X10 and B1-9 when they first came out, and found a copy of B10 a while ago. >The hardest to get a hold of? Anything I don't have :) >Seriously, its true! Not to find, but if I find something I want I have to convince my parents to let me spend my hard-earned money... >Me: Dad, I was surfing the web and I found a mailorder company that has a product I want for [insert reasonable price here] >Dad: What is it? >Me: [insert name of product here] >Dad: I am not letting you buy any roleplaying stuff. It will rot your brain!!! >Sigh. >But the product that was hardest to find for me was X10. I finally found it!!!! But then I ran into the parent problem :( >I finally had to ask a friend to get it for me for Hanukhah, and I'm hoping he'll get it for me. >>-- >>John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:23:07 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages this business about high level wizards disturbs me because, even if it is canon, it seems completely out of bounds of game balance ... that's why i liked the idea of Alphatia going to the HW, because it's existence in the outer world was just so damn powerful ... and whatever anybody says about how Alphatians aren't into politics, I just can't see how all those 36th level guys wouldn't rampage all over Mystara conquering everything in sight and carving it up into little mini-kingdoms of various sorts, or jsut plain wandering around ... and if they don't do this because they are good-aligned, then why are they? there is no reason there couldn't be lots of evil alphatians ... especially if the good aligned ones weren't into politics (and thus didn't do anything to stop them). i just didn't like the idea of alphatia as a megasuperpower ... it made the rest of the world (the best developed part info wise) into such a backwater ... why would PCs want to be from karameikos if everybody in alphatia gets to be a spellcaster, receive magical item help, acheive 36th level quickly, etc. ... although the other possibility is that the reason there were so many high level alphatians is that they had magical aid in prolonging life spans, so the day of dread/week of no magic is a good way to sharply reduce the imbalance ... i just prefer my campaigns relatively low key, and with not so much disparity between the weak and the powerful ... if i wanted that i would really dig the real world, where the US gets to feel proud of itself for defeating the Iraqi army (after we drop more explosives on them in a few months than have been used in the history of the world, or some ridiculous bullshit like that) .... kind of like 1000 36th level mages suddenly teleporting in over your capital and meteor swarming everything into rubble. kind of takes the fun out of a supposedly pre-modern, magical fantasy world, i think. the best D&D is where you have to advance through the levels painstakingly slowly, orcs are still menacing (and not laughable), an ogre is a truly fearsome monster, and dragons are so incredibly powerful that they inspire true awe not just in PCs but in PLAYERS. in a campaign like that high level wizards really mean something. at least in glantri the few high level wizards really are few, and they have to negotiate a political environment that is interesting and has lots of room for low level guys to run around and get in trouble. who ever played a low level campaign in alphatia? does anybody campaign in alphatia? doesn't seem that way on the list. i say let the hollow world keep 'em, darn it. *done with daily rant, signing off*, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Alex295 wrote: >Going over the Ierendi Gaz, I noticed a little bit of info that actually supports the Alphatian Council of 1000 Wizards. >Looking at the section for Honor Island, you will notice that most, if not all of the island's human inhabitants are spellcasters. It notes that those that are slow to learn spellcasting are aided with scrolls, magic items, and such. >So since Alphatia is so magically oriented, it is logical that the Alphatians are also capable of means to nourish and promote those with even a small amount of spellcasting ability. >Now the Honor Island wizards halt level advancement at about 20+ level. Mention is made about them turning their attentions to the research and promotion of the volcano. >Now, the Alphatians have no concerted effort to halt level advancement. After each is apprenticed, each is left to their own to advance level wise. Given the possible overall number of Alphatian mages, it is possible for a large number to exceed 30th level. >Most Alphatian Rulers are not of 36th level. This denotes that they have to assert their attentions toward their domain. As such, 36th level mages would be free willed and disinterested in politics. As high level mages they already have a high level of power there is little reason for them to pursue political power. For most, accepting a seat at the Council is as political as they will get. >Here is how I see the Alphatian Council- 1000 Alphatian mages of 36th level. This number not being all of the highest ranking mages, but the 1000 most prominent and pro-Empire. As such, they tend to act in the best interest of the Empire. The post is not a dramatic one. Few members actually attend regularly. Most opt to attend only in regards to major events such as war or internal problems. Most members are content to pursue their own interests in either Alphatia or elswhere on KW. >There are surely to be rivalries between various mages. A mage's allies would mainly consist of those he/she taught. This apprentice/teacher aspect could also be the root of much rivalry. A concerted effort to unite the Council on a subject would be difficult. This is not to say that the rival mages oppose each other politically using the Council. On the contrary, any serious dispute would simply be handled by a duel. IMO the Council is a balance of power against the Emperor. Unless the Emperor does something to warrant Council action, then the Council is content to keep to itself and each mages' own "little projects". >So the Council is of little actual power nor is it willing. During Tylion's (Terari) reign the Council wanted him removed. None wanted to step forward to challenge him down. So the Council approached Eriadna to ask her father to step down. This shows the lack of will of the Council to get their hands dirty with politics. >In closing, I do feel that a Council of 1000 36th level mages is possible. IMO it would be difficult to get all of the Council to attend, therefore it would take a miracle to get them to act. Their power is limited in only opposing the Emperor. Until needed, they are left to their own pursuits. For lack of a better term, it is an "old boys club". >I would also like to point out that the Council has been weakened from the WotI. Some mages were obviously killed, either in combat or due to Week Without Magic. Survivors are spread about the KW as well as the HW. Those in HW cannot meet with their KW fellows and vice versa. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #227 ***************************** mystara-digest Sunday, December 14 1997 Volume 02 : Number 228 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:37:45 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] Cthulhudrew's Mystics In a message dated 97-12-12 21:45:52 EST, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it writes: << 2. Smash and Set Spears options: the second is not appropriate IMHO (mystics using riding animals? with their own speed? why?), while the first... do u consider it as per normal rules (i.e. using a weapon) or is it intended with barehands too? In the latter case, it's not good... >> I think you are confusing "Set Spears" with "Lance Charge Attack". "Set Spears" is a footman's option and thus is appropriate to any character who can wield a spear and stand on dry land. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:37:38 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] It's incredible: a miracle in the Net (was: Module Idea) In a message dated 97-12-12 13:02:18 EST, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it writes: << >At 23.50 01/07/97 -0700, you wrote: This letter was lost in the Cyberocean some 5 months ago and now it's resurfaced again... much like the fate of one of our almanac's correspondants... UNBELIEVABLE!! >> If that date was in American date format, then the message could be as much as eleven months old. Of course, it is just possible that the sender has the wrong date on his computer --I remember working with a computer that had a bad battery and kept resetting its date to 1956! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:11:09 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Quiz Answers! << BTW, did anyone notice that it was marked on Alphatia map in PWA1, even though it isn't supposed to be there? >> It had parts on ground and on the flying island, so Skyreach is now separated. I'm astonished. YOU should have known that !!! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:11:05 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: [Mystara] Thyatian origins I've read some mails about Thyatis. So I write here some about the cultures and history of Thyatis (IIRC). The ancestors of the Thyatians were Antalians (yes, the horned guys of HW Ostzee). King Milen of Marilenev fled with his people, when the gnolls invaded ancient Traladara. In this time of the song of King Halav the Traldar, Nithian colonists, had not real contact to Nithia, but the empire was disappointed about this. They took some antalian slaves and sent them to the isles of Minrothad (Minroth was a Nithian). They should travel to Davania and fight against the refugees. Instead the fled, ironically to Davania, and didn't care anything for the Traldar. (Hm, were woman under the Antalians?) The Traldar founded the Milenian Empire and finally drove the successors of the Antalians out. They had formed three tribes, the Kerendan, the Hattians and the Thyatians. These tribes returned to the continent of their forefathers and settled in nowadays Thyatis. A long period the earned their living as barbaric pirates. This stopped when Alphatia conquered them. After the liberation they founded the Empire of Thyatis and started to settle other countries. Some "Celtic/Irish" Thyatians went to the Isle of Dawn, some "Spanish/Portugues" Kerendans went to the Savage Coast. Other settled in Norwold where they founded Oceansend. These were (or became) "Scandinavian" Thyatians. After the declaration of independency some Oceansender went to the Isle of Dawn and found Westrourke. As you see, there are quite a number of different Thyatians. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:11:07 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] B1-9 << unfortunately, still no B10. The quest continues... >> "Unfortunately" is the correct term. B10 is probably the best B series module. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:13:42 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series Matthew Levy pontificated: >Aaron, tell your parents that as a 16 year veteran of role playing games and a PhD student who aced both the SATs and the GRE (not that I am bragging or anything) I can safely say that role playing games stimulate, rather than rotting the brain Well, if you want to add another data point. I was about a 3.0-3.3 GPA student before 8th grade, started role-playing in the summer between 7th and 8th grade, and became pretty much a stright A student ever since. And by reading D&D stuff, it improved my English reading ability. There are at least two or three questions I got right on SAT that were directly due to my role play reading (one word was innate, another is hack), probably much more indirectly in reading comprehension. >waking hallucinations where Demogorgon appears to me personally and asks me to find sacrificial victims for his army of demonic slaves ... Good sacrificial victims are just so hard to find now days. Oh uh, did I said that out loud? - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:57:51 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatian origins >I've read some mails about Thyatis. So I write here some about the cultures and history of Thyatis (IIRC). >The ancestors of the Thyatians were Antalians (yes, the horned guys of HW Ostzee). King Milen of Marilenev fled with his people, when the gnolls invaded ancient Traladara. In this time of the song of King Halav the Traldar, Nithian colonists, had not real contact to Nithia, but the empire was disappointed about this. They took some antalian slaves and sent them to the isles of Minrothad (Minroth was a Nithian). They should travel to Davania and fight against the refugees. Instead the fled, ironically to Davania, and didn't care anything for the Traldar. (Hm, were woman under the Antalians?) The Traldar founded the Milenian Empire and finally drove the successors of the Antalians out. They had formed three tribes, the Kerendan, the Hattians and the Thyatians. These tribes returned to the continent of their forefathers and settled in nowadays Thyatis. A long period the earned their living as barbaric pirates. This stopped when Alphatia conquered them. After the liberation they founded the Empire of Thyatis and started to settle other countries. Some "Celtic/Irish" Thyatians went to the Isle of Dawn, some "Spanish/Portugues" Kerendans went to the Savage Coast. Other settled in Norwold where they founded Oceansend. These were (or became) "Scandinavian" Thyatians. After the declaration of independency some Oceansender went to the Isle of Dawn and found Westrourke. >As you see, there are quite a number of different Thyatians. This is all quite interesting - where did get this information (ie: was it all from the MML, a forgotten page on some module somewhere, or are these your own theories)? I know the Antalian/Thyatian connection from the HW boxed set, but the Oceansend/Westrourke connection puzzles me - I though Westrourke was settled before the founding of Oceansend. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:48:04 -0500 (EST) From: rdroe@iupui.edu Subject: Re: [Mystara] 'B' Series Well I didn't play D&D in High School or Junior High, my one previous exp of playing before moving to Indy at age 22 was killing an orc who had a treasure chest and a ton of money. And now I just play with my fiance. I did lousy in school my spelling is a mess and my reading comprehension is terrible. The only time I can concentrate is when I'm reading AD&D stuff, and creating little adventures in my mind. I don't see how someone could pass let alone ace the SAT or GRE. I took the PSAT in 11th grade lets just say I did good on the math. Took the ACT thank God I lived in Western half of US where you don't even need SAT. But I bombed the LSAT as a direct result of a MUD I play. Half the time my mind was consumed with how to survive being pkilled and thinking of ways to role play my charectors. On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >Matthew Levy pontificated: >>Aaron, tell your parents that as a 16 year veteran of role playing games and a PhD student who aced both the SATs and the GRE (not that I am bragging or anything) I can safely say that role playing games stimulate, rather than rotting the brain >Well, if you want to add another data point. I was about a 3.0-3.3 GPA student before 8th grade, started role-playing in the summer between 7th and 8th grade, and became pretty much a stright A student ever since. And by reading D&D stuff, it improved my English reading ability. There are at least two or three questions I got right on SAT that were directly due to my role play reading (one word was innate, another is hack), probably much more indirectly in reading comprehension. >>waking hallucinations where Demogorgon appears to me personally and asks me to find sacrificial victims for his army of demonic slaves ... >Good sacrificial victims are just so hard to find now days. Oh uh, did I said that out loud? >-- >John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | >UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." >(804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:51:22 EST From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [Mystara] Quiz Answers! In a message dated 97-12-13 11:27:45 EST, you write: << >16.Where did the Malpheggi lizardmen originally live? AA: Ierendi Isles, although these were part of the mainland before... I haven't seen any reference anywhere that the lizardmen lived in Malpheggi Swamp. Ierendi Island were once part of the mainland. They stayed right were now there's the Malpheggi Swamp, didn't they? Nope they were wiped out by a parasite carried to the Ierendi Isles by Nithian colonists, with the exception of a few who were sent to the HW ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:53:27 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatian origins This business about Thyatin ancestry really interests me. There are a few loose ends in Mystara we can tie up right here and now, in a way that preserves canon and can provide us with interesting clues ... I've always thought it was interesting to look at the way Mystara (and other fantasy worlds) uses the idea of racial or ehtnic ancestry in light of the history of these ideas in the real world ... as a real life graduate student, I am doing a PhD in political theory and a lot of what i am writing about has to do with race ... as you guys may or may not know, the very idea of some races or ethnic groups being descended from others or of tracing racial genealogies really didn't pick up steam till the 18th century, when the french aristocracy was trying to find ways to distinguish itself from the lower classes (they decided they were germanic, the peasants were celtic) ... this idea turned into what we now know as anthropology, and a lot of different disciplines like evolutionary biology, linguistics, craniometry, etc., got involved in the hunt .... it;s funny because these guys thought they were very scientific, but they often worked from biblical imagery (Hamites, Semites, and Japhethites, etc.) and believed that "aryans" were a lost tribe of israel, for instance ... so i was thinking, in fantasy there is often a heavy element of this kind of mystical pseudo-science (Tolkien and Lovecraft were both big fans of race theories and ancient cultures) ... why not make this explicit in the game by having various wizards (perhaps Hattians, Thyatin Karameikans, and Glantrians especially) attempt to gather lore on the "origins" of various races? they could visit the savage coast and examine the cultural elements of various isolated groups, or even (archeologists' wet dream) take a poke inside the hollow world, where they can find the past in all its preserved perfection. for instance: "THE GENEALOGY OF THE ANTALIAN RACES by Professor Von Ganderhoff of the Great School of Magic The Antalian race of humans arose on the shores of the eastern sea in the time of the ancient Thonian civilization. They were of the purer strains of the ancient Neathar, and an exposure to the cold northern elements encouraged that manly vigor and hardy constitution for which the race is well known. Furthermore, in the struggle for survival with the bestial Goblinoid races which beset them in the northern lands, the Antalians developed a martial skill of superb character, as well as crafts and skills related to the art of war, and to seafaring. There is excellent evidence from extant descriptions that the Skandaharian people, whose sea-raiding prowess was well known to the Blackmoor people, were Antalian in character. Some believe even the Blackmoorians were Antalian, and this hypothesis is certainly supported by the clear intellectual superiority of the Blackmoorians, though it is a controversy which awaits empirical investigation. After the destruction of Blackmoor, the Antalians moved southward into what we now know as Norwold, and also into the area which later came to be known as Alphatia, becoming the dominant original racial stock of northern Alphatia, the Yannifey Islands, and Qeodhar. Some perhaps remained in the Skandaharian regions which have become Nentsun, but this Antalian strain was quickly polluted by the influx of inferior human strains and numerous subhuman goblinoids. It was at this time that the Antalians (in Norwold) split into two distinct strains ... the True Antalian or Proto-Hattic race, and the Quasi-Antalian or Proto-Dunic race. The main difference between the two was a greater attention to the worship of immortals of war on the one hand (Odin and Thor) and to immortals of nature (such as the Robrennish Breig) on the other. The True Antalian race populated most of Norwold, the Northern Reaches, and inland areas including present-day Wendar and beyond, and developed strongly the arts of seafaring and war. The Quasi-Antalian lived along the Western part of the Isle of Dawn, as well as in various areas within the lands of the True Antalians (there were no clear national boundaries in those days. It was at this point that the terrible Nithian empire arose, and the Nithians (who were descended from Neathar strains less pure than the Antalian, but still of tremendous intellectual ability, being in many respects intellectual heirs of the ancient Taymoran culture), defeated and enslaved the Antalians through trickery and sorcerous magic (this was during the time in which the numbers of the Antalians had been reduced by repeated goblinoid attacks. The least brave and warlike of the Quasi-Antalians were taken by the Nithians to the south and became the Traldar, but their language and culture were corrupted by Nithian elements. Other Quasi-Antalians remained on the Isle of Dawn, and mixed somewhat with Nithian elements (thus producing their well-known predisposition towards redness of hair and sexual laxity). The best Quasi- Antalians and many True Antalians were taken to the southern islands to colonize and to fight against the gnollish and lizard man races as well as the rebel Milenians. They mutinied and fled to Davania, where they grew populous through subjugating the local proto-Oltec and humanoid tribes (among whom were the Tegor of the ancient Thanegioths, who would later become the slaves of the Kopru Empire). Some interbred with the Milenians, becoming the Kerendan and Thyatin tribes, while others remained pure (becoming the Hattians) ... the Thyatins especially had significant Quasi-Antalian elements, but many of the Quasi-Antalians moved to other parts of the southern jungle, where they became the Hinterlanders of the modern day. The Thyatin, Kerendan, and Hattian tribes, as is well known, later moved north again to invade the territories left open by the collapse of the Nithian empire, where they came under the influence of the City-State of Tuma ( in southeastern Darokin, near the Halfling and Karameikan borders), which had preserved much learning and culture from Nithia, Taymora, and even from Alphatian influence. The Thyatins and Kerendans adopted Tuman naming patterns (themselves related to the Milenian language), whereas the Hattians retained a pure Antalian culture. In the meantime, the Antalians who had remained in Brun came under the influence of the Elven diaspora, and accepted many Elvish elements into their culture (Elves, on the other hand, accepted much of the Antalian language into their own for everyday use ... thus the Antalian elements in many Elvish names) ... this mixing was most prominent amongst the inland Antalians, especially those of Wendar. Among the Antalian-Elvish inland tribes were the ancestors of the Robrennish (Quasi-Antalians) and Eusdrians (True Antalians), who moved westwards through the northern forests, eventually settling in the region of Hule, from whence they were pushed southward by the conquering armies of the Hulean theocracy much later. Based on this evidence alone, it is highly likely that there are other Antalian tribes of relatively pure blood, with all the noble influences acquired from Elvish culture, which live somewhere in the far northern forest lands beyond the Adri Varma plateau. Of course, as we know there are few areas in the world which have escaped SOME Antalian influence, as places like Darokin, Minrothad, and even Sind demonstrate strong strains of Antalian influence, though their populations have been made impure by other strains. One possible source of such widespread Antalian elements is the period of seareaving by the Ostland pirates which followed the collapse of Nithia and extended well into the time of the early Thyatin empire. Indeed, some islands of the Sea of Dread region boast small populations of humans of Antalian descent. The far-flung outposts of Castle Furmeglaive and Caerdwicca also show that the Quasi-Antalians (who were of course constantly receiving fresh infusions of True Antalian elements from Ostland and Norwold) were quite skilled in conquest and seafaring as well. A controversial theory, put forward by Prince Brannart McGregor, insists that the Antalians and Quasi-Antalians are necessary manifestations of metaphysical types which occur repeatedly throughout the multiverse ... thus explaining the distinctly Quasi-Antalian culture of the extraplanar Klantyrians, as well as Antalian elements in the Averoignean culture. Even amongst the Alphatians, who are mostly of a degenerate and morally corrupt copper-skinned race, there is a strain of True Alphatians, who are universally acknowledged as the best members of their race, and who are quite similar to Antalians in many respects. Other strains of humanity reputed to have Antalian origins, such as the Herathians of the far west or the Mehirgudi of Aran (near Thothia), whose langauge is similar to that of the Herathians as well as to those of Thothia and of ancient Taymora, lack the requisite evidence at present." m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Geoff Gander wrote: >>I've read some mails about Thyatis. So I write here some about the cultures and history of Thyatis (IIRC). >>The ancestors of the Thyatians were Antalians (yes, the horned guys of HW Ostzee). King Milen of Marilenev fled with his people, when the gnolls invaded ancient Traladara. In this time of the song of King Halav the Traldar, Nithian colonists, had not real contact to Nithia, but the empire was disappointed about this. They took some antalian slaves and sent them to the isles of Minrothad (Minroth was a Nithian). They should travel to Davania and fight against the refugees. Instead the fled, ironically to Davania, and didn't care anything for the Traldar. (Hm, were woman under the Antalians?) The Traldar founded the Milenian Empire and finally drove the successors of the Antalians out. They had formed three tribes, the Kerendan, the Hattians and the Thyatians. These tribes returned to the continent of their forefathers and settled in nowadays Thyatis. A long period the earned their living as barbaric pirates. This stopped when Alphatia conquered them. After the liberation they founded the Empire of Thyatis and started to settle other >>countries. Some "Celtic/Irish" Thyatians went to the Isle of Dawn, some "Spanish/Portugues" Kerendans went to the Savage Coast. Other settled in Norwold where they founded Oceansend. These were (or became) "Scandinavian" Thyatians. After the declaration of independency some Oceansender went to the Isle of Dawn and found Westrourke. >>As you see, there are quite a number of different Thyatians. >This is all quite interesting - where did get this information (ie: was it all from the MML, a forgotten page on some module somewhere, or are these your own theories)? I know the Antalian/Thyatian connection from the HW boxed set, but the Oceansend/Westrourke connection puzzles me - I though Westrourke was settled before the founding of Oceansend. >Geoff >-- >Geoff Gander, BA 97 >Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:52:24 EST From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [Mystara] Quiz Answers! In a message dated 97-12-13 14:29:24 EST, you write: << 2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing tthe requisite path? >A: Khoronus and Yav are the ones that I know of. Rad, Rafiel, Benekander, Terra, and others are not correct answers because they did *not* complete the path needed for their Sphere. I don't remember Yav at all, can anyone remind me? And I thought Khoronus just don't remember how he became an immortal and might be his own sponsor. Didn't Rafiel accidently complete the path of dynast when shadowelves start to worship him? >> I still think my answer of Diamond (going by the Dragonlord books) was valid too. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:48:03 -0700 From: "Patrick" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Quiz Answers! ><< 2.Which immortals achieved Immortality by unknowingly completing ttthe requisite path? >>A: Khoronus and Yav are the ones that I know of. Rad, Rafiel, Benekander, >>Terra, and others are not correct answers because they did *not* complete the path needed for their Sphere. >I don't remember Yav at all, can anyone remind me? And I thought Khoronus just don't remember how he became an immortal and might be his own sponsor. Didn't Rafiel accidently complete the path of dynast when shadowelves start to worship him? >> >I still think my answer of Diamond (going by the Dragonlord books) was valid >too. Yav, the patron immortal of the Yavdlom Divinarchy on the Serpent peninsula completed the path of the Dynast without knowing, as described in Champions of Mystara. Khoronous remembers his path well: he unintentionally completed the path of the Dynast. However, he does not know who, if anyone, sponsored him (cf WotI). I think, though, that Diamond works as well. Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:55:36 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages In a message dated 97-12-13 16:23:37 EST, you write: << this business about high level wizards disturbs me because, even if it is canon, it seems completely out of bounds of game balance ... that's why i liked the idea of Alphatia going to the HW, because it's existence in the outer world was just so damn powerful ... and whatever anybody says about how Alphatians aren't into politics, I just can't see how all those 36th level guys wouldn't rampage all over Mystara conquering everything in sight and carving it up into little mini-kingdoms of various sorts, or jsut plain wandering around ... and if they don't do this because they are good-aligned, then why are they? there is no reason there couldn't be lots of evil alphatians ... especially if the good aligned ones weren't into politics (and thus didn't do anything to stop them). i just didn't like the idea of alphatia as a megasuperpower ... it made the rest of the world (the best developed part info wise) into such a backwater ... why would PCs want to be from karameikos if everybody in alphatia gets to be a spellcaster, receive magical item help, acheive 36th level quickly, etc.>> Why would it be unbalanced? The Council itself is a means to balance things. IMO Alphatian mages of high level have little need or desire for conquest or power. As spellcasters, they are nobility. I also suspect that the Council as well as the Empire would look disfavorably upon any rogue mages that struck out on their own to establish domains. Plus I imagine that few mages would be willinging to "get their hands dirty" by seeking their own domain. Magical research would be disrupted. Plus most mages are not qualified to rule. Setting taxes, administration, and diplomacy differ greatly from "cracking the old spell books". Domain rule would also be seen as a burden. Each mage would probably be content with their own current domain. This domain being their Tower. There they are the master. Obligations are few. Privacy is abundant. <> Depends on how each mage extended their own lifespans and what precautions were taken to preserve that thread. <> Low Key....kind of describes how I imagine most high lvl mages. The 1000 36 lvl mages appearing over a capital and blasting away is not what I like to see either. This was done in WotI and I didn't like it then. I found it strange that Zandor could order the Council to do this. I found it odder that the Council complied. I think the move was brought on more due to the attack on Sundsvall and resulting damage and loss of life. It was an act of vengence. I agree in the wishing to keep the "big boys" out of gameplay. IMO once a mage (or even cleric) reaches 20th lvl he or she is well beyond conventional use in regular play. IMC I usually find a reason to have the higher level PCs retire into NPC-ism. If the need arises for some little job to be done, they hire PCs to do it. It's cheaper, safer, and cleaner than going out and doing it themselves. IMO upon reaching 36th lvl a mage is more focused on living it up a bit. Research is broken to spend some of that hard earned adventuring money. The time for ambition and power grabbing has long past. Anything they want is at the snap of their fingers. <> I agree. What's the use of a DM setting up this intricate adventure if the party's mage can mumble a few words and zip right through it. He solves the riddles via Divination spells. He foregoes the perilous journey by teleporting the party in. Whats the use of having the proverbial orcs if the mage can just blast them away without breaking a sweat. I don't think the players would find much challenge for their mage. Obviously retirement is a solution. I myself see much potential for low level PC to start out in Alphatia. I know this from personal experience as most of my PCs originated there. If you want I could send you or post some suggestions. Alex ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 97 05:31:44 EST From: HotStock@earth.spearhead.net Subject: [Mystara] HOT STOCKS: Give yourself a XMas Present!!! To be removed from our lists please send a blank message to remove@cyber-market.net with the word REMOVE in the subject. 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Most members are content to pursue their own interests in either Alphatia or elswhere on KW. >> Please don't forget, that Alphatia is not a realm for magic-users as Glantri, but a realm for spellcasters. As it is clearly stated in DoE, clerics of level 2 (and higher) are full aristocrats and have the same rights as magic-users. The same thing is true for druids and obviously for paladins and rangers with a wisdom of 13 or higher. The one exception is, that everywhere but Limn humanoid spellcasters are not accepted. This makes the Great Council an assembly of 1000 spellcasters level 36, wizards, clerics, druids and even paladins and avengers. (Imagine a level 36 paladin with the ability to cast clerical spells on level 12, a Detecte Evil at will and devastating fighting abilities (4 attacks the round, and he can do this against every wizard!) standing full armoured in the hall of the Great Council shouting down all those wizards!) I don't have any problems with the Great Council, but the number of high level characters in other countries is simply to low. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 07:31:01 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatian origins << This is all quite interesting - where did get this information (ie: was it all from the MML, a forgotten page on some module somewhere, or are these your own theories)? I know the Antalian/Thyatian connection from the HW boxed set, but the Oceansend/Westrourke connection puzzles me - I though Westrourke was settled before the founding of Oceansend. >> Sorry to disappoint you, Geoff, but this is all highly official TSR, TM, DoE and other. Of course the Isle of Dawn was settled short after the foundation of the Empire. But the nowadays Westrourke was obviously left aside. The most and longest civilized Thyatian colonies were Redstone and West Portage (IIRC old Alphatian settlements). The "Celtic" inhabitants of Redstone might be pure Thyatians (like the Savage Baronies Thyatians) or descendants of Alphatian colonizations. But the founder of Westrourke was Donegal Firestorm, father of Thrainkell Firestorm, the current leader of ths nation. He was from Oceansend and left this city when it declared its independency after the Alphatian Spike Attack. (BTW, he was a relative of the Oceanendian man Thrainkell Thorson, aka Thincol Torion). Some other loyalists left with him and together they build Westrourke. Later on Thincol and Donegal signed a treaty with the King of Ostland to found seven Ostland colonies in Westrourke. This has been done now. BTW, there's an interesting question, why the Northmen never founded colonies on the IoD. I assume, they did, but as with the last colonization wave, the kings of Ostland used the IoD as a dump for those they want to get rid off. Probably the most colonists died out. One relic of these early colonizations might be Finnegar's Watch. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:41:22 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages I agree with a lot of your thoughts on this subject, and would love to see what you have developed on Alphatia ... there doesn't tend to be much useful info. I guess my problem with the Council is that I think about Mystaran politics in "balance of power" terms and Alphatia is just so much more powerful than Thyatis ... I guess the Heldannic Knights balance this with Clerical magic somewhat, but it still seems too disparate. The only analogy I can think of is the US in the modern day ... and I guess what I always liked about D&D was that it was a world where you could have some sense of independence and individual power without worrying about having nuclear missiles around capable of destroying everybody at a moment's notice. but then again the psychology of a world with all these mages that have the power to blow everyone up but just don't care is really interesting ... it's all a matter of preference. it depends on how you view human nature, and how you understand the politics of mystara ... are the alphatians a hegemonic power who just doesn't want war, or are they really controlling the world economy for their own benefit? where do they get all the cash for spell components, dominions, military expenditure, etc.? it's not that the system CAN'T work with the Council as it is, I just don't understand how it DOES. an interesting issue for hypothetical social science. what exactly IS the effect of magic on society? i wish i could answer this myself but it's just so damn complex. and nobody has worked it out for the real world, for that matter (though free market capitalists and orthodox marxists like to think they have). anyway just some thoughts. one question: why does retiring PCs make them less disruptive? don't NPCs ever like to fuck around and cause trouble? m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, Alex295 wrote: >In a message dated 97-12-13 16:23:37 EST, you write: ><< this business about high level wizards disturbs me because, even if it is ccanon, it seems completely out of bounds of game balance ... that's why i liked the idea of Alphatia going to the HW, because it's existence in the outer world was just so damn powerful ... and whatever anybody says about how Alphatians aren't into politics, I just can't see how all those 36th level guys wouldn't rampage all over Mystara conquering everything in sight and carving it up into little mini-kingdoms of various sorts, or jsut plain wandering around ... and if they don't do this because they are good-aligned, then why are they? there is no reason there couldn't be lots of evil alphatians ... especially if the good aligned ones weren't into politics (and thus didn't do anything to stop them). i just didn't like the idea of alphatia as a megasuperpower ... it made the rest of the world (the best developed part info wise) into such a backwater ... why would PCs want to be from karameikos if everybody in alphatia gets to be a spellcaster, receive magical item help, acheive 36th level quickly, etc.>> >Why would it be unbalanced? The Council itself is a means to balance things. IMO Alphatian mages of high level have little need or desire for conquest or power. As spellcasters, they are nobility. I also suspect that the Council as well as the Empire would look disfavorably upon any rogue mages that struck out on their own to establish domains. Plus I imagine that few mages would be willinging to "get their hands dirty" by seeking their own domain. Magical research would be disrupted. Plus most mages are not qualified to rule. Setting taxes, administration, and diplomacy differ greatly from "cracking the old spell books". Domain rule would also be seen as a burden. Each mage would probably be content with their own current domain. This domain being their Tower. There they are the master. Obligations are few. Privacy is abundant. ><> >Depends on how each mage extended their own lifespans and what precautions were taken to preserve that thread. ><> >Low Key....kind of describes how I imagine most high lvl mages. The 1000 36 lvl mages appearing over a capital and blasting away is not what I like to see either. This was done in WotI and I didn't like it then. I found it strange that Zandor could order the Council to do this. I found it odder that the Council complied. I think the move was brought on more due to the attack on Sundsvall and resulting damage and loss of life. It was an act of vengence. I agree in the wishing to keep the "big boys" out of gameplay. IMO once a mage (or even cleric) reaches 20th lvl he or she is well beyond conventional use in regular play. IMC I usually find a reason to have the higher level PCs retire into NPC-ism. If the need arises for some little job to be done, they hire PCs to do it. It's cheaper, safer, and cleaner than going out and doing it themselves. >IMO upon reaching 36th lvl a mage is more focused on living it up a bit. Research is broken to spend some of that hard earned adventuring money. The time for ambition and power grabbing has long past. Anything they want is at the snap of their fingers. ><> >I agree. What's the use of a DM setting up this intricate adventure if the party's mage can mumble a few words and zip right through it. He solves the riddles via Divination spells. He foregoes the perilous journey by teleporting the party in. Whats the use of having the proverbial orcs if the mage can just blast them away without breaking a sweat. I don't think the players would find much challenge for their mage. Obviously retirement is a solution. I myself see much potential for low level PC to start out in Alphatia. I know this from personal experience as most of my PCs originated there. If you want I could send you or post some suggestions. >Alex ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #228 ***************************** mystara-digest Monday, December 15 1997 Volume 02 : Number 229 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:44:59 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages don't raise the number of high level characters elsewhere!!!! we need lower level campaigns, not higher. at least i do. it's more fun, less of a headache, and it's easier to come up with challenging monsters. m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, JamugaKhan wrote: ><< Here is how I see the Alphatian Council- >1000 Alphatian mages of 36th level. This number not being all of the highest ranking mages, but the 1000 most prominent and pro-Empire. As such, they tend to act in the best interest of the Empire. The post is not a dramatic one. Few >members actually attend regularly. Most opt to attend only in regards to major >events such as war or internal problems. Most members are content to pursue their own interests in either Alphatia or elswhere on KW. >> >Please don't forget, that Alphatia is not a realm for magic-users as Glantri, but a realm for spellcasters. As it is clearly stated in DoE, clerics of level 2 >(and higher) are full aristocrats and have the same rights as magic-users. The same thing is true for druids and obviously for paladins and rangers with a wisdom of 13 or higher. The one exception is, that everywhere but Limn humanoid spellcasters are not accepted. >This makes the Great Council an assembly of 1000 spellcasters level 36, wizards, clerics, druids and even paladins and avengers. (Imagine a level 36 paladin with the ability to cast clerical spells on level 12, >a Detecte Evil at will and devastating fighting abilities (4 attacks the round, >and he can do this against every wizard!) standing full armoured in the hall of >the Great Council shouting down all those wizards!) >I don't have any problems with the Great Council, but the number of high level characters in other countries is simply to low. >Jamuga Khan >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:08:24 -0800 From: Sheer El-Showk Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages I am suprised that so many people are attempting to circumvent or criticize the generally high level of the Mystara campeign. I find it a huge boon rather than a bane. It certainly makes sense that if your PCs achieve teen levels (I play an AD&D converted campeign) in a few years of game time that the world would be far more litered with powerful people than most campeigns generally are. First it allows you to make reasonable high-level adventures without having to always send the characters extra-planarly. Also while I don't like the fact of Alphetia being a tremendously more powerful nation than Thyatis I am quite satified by the Dawn of the Empires solution that Alphetia is more a conglomeration of warring irreconcilable mages than an actual nation per say. Thus only rarely can the national strength truly be rallied to any effect. I think this also makes playing a Thyatian wizard far more interesting because they probably feel far more patriotic than their Alphetian counterparts since they represent a budding portion of the Thytian populace rather than its dominating element. Thus Thyatian mages probably train to work well with warriors and to be adventuring or battle mages in general whereas Alphetians are merely academics who would probably fare far worse in true battle and be completely incapable of working with each other. Sheer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:32:52 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Module Idea DM pontificated: >I once had this idea about the Isle of Dread: some powerful and important adventurer go there and subjugate many monsters, then creates a park of adventures (much like Gastenoo's on Ierendi) with the monsters he puts in there (for example a dragon who gets "into business" with the adventurer: you make yourself beat a bit by the tourist and i give you a small amount of the month treasure)... But then not all the isle is controlled by the adventurer and many monsters can creep in and become dangerous... We did the suggested follow up to X2, dino hunting. We need to capture as many live dinos as possible for someone on the mainland (don't remember whom). We had a tough time with the flying ones, especially when they keep making saving throw against our wand of paraziation. We finally captured one by freezing the water around it when one landed in a lake. But on our way back, our boat got wipe out by a storm and lost everything... - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:00:56 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, Sheer El-Showk wrote: >I am suprised that so many people are attempting to circumvent or criticize the generally high level of the Mystara campeign. I find it a huge boon rather than a bane. if you like playing high level games. not my preference, and i have my reasons, but i won't try to convert you any more unless you ask me to. :) It certainly makes sense that if your PCs >achieve teen levels (I play an AD&D converted campeign) in a few years of game time that the world would be far more litered with powerful people than most campeigns generally are. here may be where our difference lies ... in my games, nobody goes up levels that fast (that's one limitation upon levels ... people get old and have to retire). my adventures tend to involve lots of gametime-consuming travel and day-to-day activities (politics, working for a living, etc.) and anyway the level of combat tends to actually be much lower than many D&D games because I make sure that it is deadly and unpredictable, which tends to keep players humble and cautious. This means they don't get to experience the thrill of rising in power as a reward for play except after a long long time, but it's my experience that games where characters rise too fast never hold together, and i don't get to play frequently anyway. First it allows you to make >reasonable high-level adventures without having to always send the characters extra-planarly. true, but their opponents always have to be human or demi-human. monsters lose their mystery and awesomeness. Also while I don't like the fact of Alphetia >being a tremendously more powerful nation than Thyatis I am quite satified by the Dawn of the Empires solution that Alphetia is more a conglomeration of warring irreconcilable mages than an actual nation per say. Thus only rarely can the national strength truly be rallied to any effect. that seems to be the general consensus, and i see in game terms why this helps balance things politics-wise, but no one has yet given me a reason WHY it would be so that I find satisfying. If Alphatia is so disorganized, why don't factions within it ally with outside powers and get into civil wars? it seems organized enough to effectively keep Thyatis at bay (pre-WotI) but never enough to really do anything internationally. perhaps kind of like post cold war USA .. the example that keeps recurring in my mind. Also, if Alphatians are so unpatriotic, why don't more of them share their magical knowledge with outsiders? many other nations might pay huge amounts of gold for access to all those wands, spellbooks, scrolls, etc. - why aren't Ierendi naval officers all armed with boltthrowers? they could certainly afford it, and it would help keep the Thyatins away ... I think this also makes playing a Thyatian wizard far more >interesting because they probably feel far more patriotic than their Alphetian counterparts since they represent a budding portion of the Thytian populace rather than its dominating element. Thus Thyatian mages probably train to work well with warriors and to be adventuring or battle mages in general whereas Alphetians are merely academics who would probably fare far worse in true battle and be completely incapable of working with each other. this makes some sense to me, and i like the idea of specially combat-trained mages ... but wouldn't the rarity of mages in Thyatis increase demand for their services, thus increasing their social status until they were even higher in social rank than their alphatian counterparts? perhaps like Glantri? part of it is that unless wizards are kept relatively limited in certain ways, i find it hard to believe that high level fighters would become rulers. in fact i would think that thieves or clerics would be more suited to politics in many ways, whereas really skilled fighters would be in the army, amongst the enlisted men. but now i am going over the old ground of my argument with Fabrizio of some months ago. anyway back to my schoolwork. peace, m@2 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:45:47 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [Mystara] BeastHunter And CoolHands : Cartoon Characters ? On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Kaviyd wrote: >Okay, here is the scoop on the Long Runners -- the characters of Beasthunter, Coolhands, and Starwatcher are obviously based on the characters of Cutter, Leetah, and Skywise from the Elfquest comics by Wendy and Richard Pini. A reading of the Elfquest comics would probably be helpful in depicting the Long Runner clan of Alfheim. >Coolhands was made to originate from Belcadiz because the Belcadiz Elves of Glantri bear a superficial resemblance to Leetah's Sun Folk -- both groups of Elves are short and dark-skinned. As near as I can tell, no explicit connection is drawn between Coolhands and any of the present Belcadiz Elves in Glantri, and you would probably look in vain for any connection between these Elves and the Sun Folk Elves of Elfquest. This Elfquest-Mystara debate got me thinking: Longrunners=Wolfriders This is already known. Belcadiz=Sun Folk Other than Coolhands=Leetah, they dont have much in common except darker skin. Also the Sunfolk did have some quite powerful mages, so it would fit that they live in Glantri. Rayek doesn't seem like a belcadiz fop though. Wendar-elves=Gobacks The elves of Wendar dont ride Elks, but they are warlike and they live in a snowy land so it could fit. Kavi, anyone? Shadowelves=Blue mountain elves They're pale. Perhaps Winnowill is Pophyriel(sp). Perhaps not, but maybe some twisted Shadowelf shaman has a love affair with Coolhands ex? Aquatic elves=Sea Elves Eldar=High ones Rockhome Dwarves=Trolls(Dont tell any dwarves or Trolls I said that) Others: Strongbow and his son Dart might be of the Red Arrow clan Chot fits well in with how i percieve the Shyie Lawr, even though he is a Goback. Eyrindul would probably like Chot as a follower, if Chot wasn't so annoying. And, After alheim is destroyed, the elves set out on a Quest and discover new tribes(Wendar, not unknown, but still) Which clans went north? Longrunners by any chance? for more ramblings, see above. Sincerely Håvard. ********* Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:57:37 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [Re [Mystara] D&D Classes On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Nils Holger Németh Berg wrote: >IŽm new to the MMLlist (been lurking around for a while though) and IŽd love to see some Mystara-Gurps experiences. >I plan on starting a Gurps-campaign in Newkirk AC 990, so any help - Gurps-like or relating to the area - would be welcome. >I have been wondering on the subjects of the baranoies on the NW part of IoD - I think remembering seeing something about them being Ostlandish colonies. Am I correct (has this been discussed before). >If so what are their relationship to Ostland, Westrourke, Alphathia, etc. My own GURPS campaign is set in Karameikos AC 999. There are some AD&D monsters for GURPS available on Web. Also, conversions are available for converting NPCs etc. I'm working on some more Beasties and will probably post them later on. Any others will be appreciated. I've tried to keep my campaign rather low on magic so far, since I'm not very experienced with the GURPS magic system. I've made Mystara Normal Mana level, though this is debatable. Hollow World is probably low mana, and spells there are even more rare than in Karameikos. I only allow my players to chose spells from the basic set, though any characters from Glantri or Alphatia could know any spells from Magic and Grimoire. more later. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:43:09 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Floating Ar On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >>15.Where is Skyreach and what's special about it? A: It's the capital of Floating Ar, situated on a large flying isle. BTW, did anyone notice that it was marked on Alphatia map in PWA1, even though it isn't supposed to be there? >Why not? If it's on floating island it's still there after WotI. Floating Ar has remained in the outer world. And that map in PWA1 depicts Alphatia in HW. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:38:47 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Survey Results Here are the results of my survey that I sent to the list a couple of weeks ago. 57 people replied (and I thank them very much). The results are given as percentages of replies. Note that many of these do not add up to 100% because many people have indicated several possibilities for the same subject, e.g. in different situations. Along with the results are some comments from me. I hope this will generate some discussion. Core Rules The amount of rules: 75% wanted to have many rules, but a lot of them optional 14% wished to have few rules 12% desired to have a lot of strict rules Clearly, people want to have clear rules covering a variety of situations, but want to be able to ignore any of those. To have or not to have classes: 54% wished to have loosely defined, customizable classes 35% wanted to have strictly defined classes 16% didn't like classes at all AD&D roots are deep :) Most people want to have at least some sort of archetypes. Preferred magic system: 46% wanted to have moderately regulated system 39% would have loved to have a freeform system 21% wanted to have a strict system Hmmm... Perhaps AD&D magic system needs some loosening? Skills and levels: 54% thought that skills should be gained from rising in levels 32% thought that no levels are needed at all 21% thought that levels should be gained from using skills Heh, there's a steady 'heretic' group that wants to dump levels entirely... How should a character's personality be defined? 70% didn't think that it should be defined using game mechanics 28% thought that assigning values to personality traits was the way to go 11% maintained that the alignment system was the best Could this be a signal to WotC to lose the alignment system? Accessories Preferred types of accessories: 98% liked campaign world expansions 88% loved additional goodies like new spells/skills/classes/kits 68% adored additional optional rules All kinds of accessories seem popular... Amount of detail: 86% demanded to see high detail 35% needed only a little detail Many have indicated that an accessory could have both... that is, important parts should be well-detailed, while other parts could be left less developed. Type of content: 74% demanded specific information 44% needed only vague descriptions Again, many have said that there could well be a DM's part with specific info, and a player's part with descriptive text. Fluff in accessories (that is, descriptive text that usually 'introduces' the reader to the accessory): 63% wanted fluff only if it was somehow relevant to the topic 56% desired to read fluff no matter what it was 11% considered fluff to be an absolute waste of time and space Clearly, people love fluff... could this be the reason why TSR products have sold so well? (Well, most of them anyway) What would you pay for a good softcover accessory book, supposing it meets your criteria above? 46% would pay up to $20 28% would go as high as $25 16% were the poor and dissatisfied who would pay no more than $15 12% were the rich people who would pay over $25 2 people would pay anything ;) Campaign worlds Cultural types in the world: 77% liked totally fictional cultures 60% didn't mind seeing some adaptations from the real world 11% liked cultures exactly like the real world ones Do you think it's OK to model major campaign NPCs on real-world historical figures? 58% agreed 21% conceded as long as it was done loosely and well 18% said absolutely no Do you like campaigns to be large and expansive (Forgotten Realms), or confined to a small area of the world (Dark Sun)? 91% liked their campaigns large and roomy 23% wanted to have their campaigns small and beautiful Some have said that it's nice to start small and grow outwards. Do you like worlds to be standard spherical planets, or all kinds of weird shapes? 53% were realists 44% had no preference 7% were.. er.. fantasists :) Where's your imagination guys? :) Amount of world detail 74% wanted to have main parts detailed and the rest left open 37% insisted on high detail worldwide 1 person wanted only the world map What would you pay for a good campaign setting boxed set (suppose it meets your criteria above)? 54% would pay up to $30 35% would go as high as $40 7% wouldn't pay more than $20 5% would pay more than $40 1 person would pay anything, and 1 person would pay exactly zero dollars. :) Well, I hope you've found this interesting. Thanks again to all who answered. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:48:07 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Desert Nomad modules Hello, Could someone tell me a brief synopsis of the Desert Nomad modules (X4 and X5?, Temple of Death and Master of the Desert Nomads)? What are the PCs doing there, where are they doing it? I don't have these modules, but I'd like to run these adventures, so I need a synopsis from which I can create something myself. Thanks in advance. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:03:43 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [Mystara] Schattenalfen On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >On second thought: if the Schattenalfen are not descended from the Shadow Elves why are there some followers of Rafiel among the Schattenalfen? This is canon (HW boxed set) and also important for some events in next almanac... Several possibilities here: 1.Shadow elves and Schattenalfen had some brief contact at some point. Remember, the Schattenalfen built Aengmor which was not all that far from the Shadow Elves lands. 2.Rafiel found another branch of elves who shared the same ancestors as his Shadow Elves. He discovered that they follow his enemy Atzanteotl and decided to try and convert some of them to his cause... sort of undermining operations. As a follow-up, this could mean that Rafiel might also try to get followers among the Icevale elves (which Immortals do they follow?) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:37:50 +0100 From: Stroll Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil At 16:42 09.12.97 -0600, you wrote: >You know, you're absolutely right. Entropy probably should be looked at as a natural process also. Still, I think undead are a perversion of life and so just not lawful. If anyone had read some of DC Comics stories that deal with the Lords of Order and the Lords of Chaos, you'll see that both wouldn't be classified as good. In fact, their relationship is one of order but their actions are definitely chaotic. I would think you could say that life is an ordererly process (therefore, lawful) but is chaotic in nature. Still, that can apply to undead too... oh, well. I give up ;) Give up!?! Never! I think one should think of the struggle between entropy and the other four spheres of power as a natural struggle of survival. As already pointede out in this discussion, Mystara is not a classic fantasy-world where Good vs. Evil is the most important issue. Instead it is a world of constant struggle between a number of factions with differing "religious" views. The four "good" spheres (energy, matter, thought and time) symbolizes the creative and building forces of the multiverse; without them, nothing would ever exists. The Sphere of Entropy symbolizes the destructive force of the multiverse; if this sphere were lacking, everything would be eternal and the four creative spheres would choke on eachother, it would be impossible for life as Mystarans know it to exist. Therefore I consider the entropic sphere as just another part of life; if you have Yin, you're going to need Yang... Of course, not even the immortals have even the faintest idea about this; the struggle for power will only cease when one of the spheres is finally destroyed, and the the balance of it all would be...(complete vocabulary failure)...unbalaced for ever, thus entropy would reign until it had destroyed itself... I think... Anyway Merry Yule Stroll May your life be as merry as a witches greetings!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:36:10 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen In a message dated 97-12-15 09:14:36 EST, you write: << > On second thought: if the Schattenalfen are not descended from the Shadow >Elves why are there some followers of Rafiel among the Schattenalfen? This is canon (HW boxed set) and also important for some events in next almanac... Several possibilities here: 1.Shadow elves and Schattenalfen had some brief contact at some point. Remember, the Schattenalfen built Aengmor which was not all that far from the Shadow Elves lands. 2.Rafiel found another branch of elves who shared the same ancestors as his Shadow Elves. He discovered that they follow his enemy Atzanteotl and decided to try and convert some of them to his cause... sort of undermining operations. As a follow-up, this could mean that Rafiel might also try to get followers among the Icevale elves (which Immortals do they follow?) >> Concerning Possibility #2 and the Icevale. Not sure of the Immortals the Icevale Elves follow (don't have HW box handy). I do remember that the Icevale do follow the tradition of discarding genetically scarred and weak offspring. Unlike the Shadow Elves that abandon them to be raised by humanoids (ex Kol) the Icevale toss them over a cliff or into a ravine killing them. Also IIRC the Icevale are not to proud of this practice and keep it a secret. The connection is there. Only the manner and fate of the children being different. As such, the assumption that Rafiel is followed by both can be reached. However, I have to wonder about the differences in the two in regards to the ill perfect children. Are the Icevale young tossed away "saved" and placed with foster parents? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:04:47 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Remove At 05.31 14/12/97 EST, you wrote: >To be removed from our lists please send a blank message to remove@cyber-market.net with the word REMOVE in the subject. >Visit http://www.cyber-market.net/jtsr for complete information on one of the hottest stocks of the coming year! If this site is busy, visit us at http://www.mail-man.net/jtsr >J.T.'S RESTAURANTS, INC. is currently undervalued and on the move! Don't miss this opportunity. Visit the web site at http://www.cyber-market.net/jtsr to find out why. >J.T.'S RESTAURANTS, INC. (NASDAQ Symbol: JTSR) is one of the fastest growing restaurant chains in the country! Several top stock market analysts predicted last week that the stock has the potential to will reach $4.00 by the end of the year and over $10.00 in 1998! >If you had invested just $100 in McDonalds' in 1955, you would be a millionaire today. >A recent acquisition announcement that may add up to 10 new restaurant locations in 1998 has already resulted in the price moving from $1.35 last week to well over $2.25 in just 5 days! >Catch the rising star of JTSR at http://www.cyber-market.net/jtsr or visit our mirror >site at http://www.mail-man.net/jtsr >(NOTE: The information contained in this message does not constitute an offering or inducement to purchase securities. It is for information purposes only.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:08:44 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Ierendi Tournament Questions (Quiz =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=B02?= ) OK, following Aleksei's example, here it's some of the questions i normally ask to my players when their PCs try to participate to the Ierendi Tournament. If they answer and get enough points (each question gives some points, depending on the difficulty level), then they can advance and begin the duels. It's a sort of Knowledge Test all the applicants have to pass: you need a score of at least 70 out of 150 points to qualify for the crown competition. Note that these are questions that all the PCs (and therefore the players) CAN know: there are not DMs' secrets. As usual, i advise to answer by memory and later check in the books if u want. I'll give u the answers at the end of the week. Enjoy! ;) DM PS: some of questions have been changed. Normally the original questions included public feats accomplished by or caused by the group of my PCs, but since you don't know my campaign.. Anyway, if u want to use this quiz, i advise you to insert a few questions on the feats of your PCs, so to give them a bit of popularity and satisfaction. ;) PPS: after each question the value for the correct answer is indicated ECONOMICS (Total: 30 points) 1) What's the exchange rate for 1 gp in silver pieces and electrum pieces? (1) 2) What's the name of the Thyatian gold piece? (2) 3) What's the exchange rate for 1 Glantrian Crown in gold pieces (in Glantri)? (2) 4) Name 1 imported and 1 exported good by Ierendi (6) 5) What's the wealthiest nation of the world after 1010 AC? (3) 6) Name at least two nations of the world that don't impose taxes on its inhabitants. (5) 7) What's the Sales Tax? (3) 8) Name at least one nation of the Old World that doesn't use the gold piece (2) 9) Name at least one major feature of the Darokinian economic system (4) 10) How much does a longsword normally cost? (2) HISTORY (Total: 30 points) 1) Who was the first Thyatian Emperor? (2) 2) Who's the current (AC 1014) Emperor of Thyatis? (1) 3) List at least two important events that changed the political scenario in the old world from AC 1009 to AC 1014. (2) 4) Who is the current (AC 1014) Chancellor of Darokin? (3) 5) When and why Rockhome broke all the diplomatical relationships with Glantri? (4) 6) Who is the most prominent figure of the Ylari history and why? (3) 7) When did Ierendi become an independent Kingdom? (5) 8) What is the Spikes' Assault and when did it take place? (6) 9) What is the oldest nation of the Old World? (2) 10) When did the Heldannic Knights take over the Heldann Freeholds? (2) GEOGRAPHY (Total: 30 points) 1) Name at least three of the Ierendi islands. (2) 2) Which nations border on Ierendi? (3) 3) List at least 6 capitals of the Old World nations (2) 4) What's the most populated city of the Old World? (1) 5) What's the name of the most important river of Darokin? (3) 6) Which countries does the Overland Trade Route cross? (5) 7) Where is the Great School of Magic (city/nation)? (1) 8) What's the longest river of the Old World? (4) 9) What's the highest mountain of the Old World and where is it located? (6) 10) Name at least three provinces controlled by the Empire of Thyatis (3) MAGIC & RELIGION (Total: 30 points) 1) What is the holy book of the Eternal Truth? (4) 2) What is the symbol of the Heldannic Knights' Order? (1) 3) What is the official religion of Ierendi? (3) 4) To which Immortal belongs the "Silver Moon" symbol? (2) 5) Who is the Immortal Patron of Justice and Revenge? (2) 6) Name one clerical and magic-user's spell of levels 1 and 2. (2) 7) List all the powers of a (OD&D) Staff of Wizardry. (6) 8) What are the requirements a Magic-user must satisfy to cast a Wish spell? (5) 9) How many "Cure" clerical spells do exist? (1) 10) How is the Multiverse divided according to the recent Theories on the Planes of Existence? (4) MISCELLANEA (Total: 30 points) 1) How many calendars are diffused throughout the Old World by AC 1014? (3) 2) What are the main festivals and holidays of Ierendi? (4) 3) How many of the current Sheriffs of the Five Shires are women? (3) 4) Who is Oran Meditor? (1) 5) What are the true names of the so called "Northern Reaches"? (2) 6) Name at least two nations where slavery is legal. (3) 7) Name one country where the ruler of the nation is also the head of the Church and of the army? (2) 8) List all of the current (AC 1014) Principalities of Glantri. (5) 9) When does the so called Day of Dread occurs? (1) 10) What is Chi and where is it located? (6) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:15:44 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages In a message dated 97-12-15 08:18:07 EST, you write: << I agree with a lot of your thoughts on this subject, and would love to see what you have developed on Alphatia ... there doesn't tend to be much useful info. I guess my problem with the Council is that I think about Mystaran politics in "balance of power" terms and Alphatia is just so much more powerful than Thyatis ... I guess the Heldannic Knights balance this with Clerical magic somewhat, but it still seems too disparate. The only analogy I can think of is the US in the modern day ... and I guess what I always liked about D&D was that it was a world where you could have some sense of independence and individual power without worrying about having nuclear missiles around capable of destroying everybody at a moment's notice. but then again the psychology of a world with all these mages that have the power to blow everyone up but just don't care is really interesting ... it's all a matter of preference. it depends on how you view human nature, and how you understand the politics of mystara ... are the alphatians a hegemonic power who just doesn't want war, or are they really controlling the world economy for their own benefit? where do they get all the cash for spell components, dominions, military expenditure, etc.? it's not that the system CAN'T work with the Council as it is, I just don't understand how it DOES. an interesting issue for hypothetical social science. what exactly IS the effect of magic on society? i wish i could answer this myself but it's just so damn complex. and nobody has worked it out for the real world, for that matter (though free market capitalists and orthodox marxists like to think they have). anyway just some thoughts.>> IIRC Alphatia needs magic. They use it to grow their food. They use it to erect structures. They use it to do everything. IMO they take it for granted. Without it, they would cease as a power and a nation. With a large chunk of the populace spellcasters, there has to be an item to keep everyone in line and unified. The Emperor is this. Backing up and also acting as a balance to the Imperial Court is the Council. Alphatia draws large sums of capital from tribute and taxes. Since Mystara is D&D based, spell components are not a factor. I have my own theories about spell components. SpellComponents are only needed as part of the training experience. The components allow the caster a means to access the magical energies to cast a spell. As a caster becomes more familiar with a particular spell, the need of a component is lessened. In this manner, only newly acquired spells need spell components. Most notably, these include more powerful spells gained through advancement in level. To lower level PCs the Council is an all powerful entity almost equal to prestige as the Imperial Court. PCs just cannot walk up and ring the door bell to gain an audiance. The Council is something beyond the grasp of the average Alphatian. Even an Alphatian spellcaster is wary of them and their collective power. As for any further economics, I dare to continue. This is a fantasy setting. Though working out the full economy of Alphatia would be interesting, it bears little upon the low level PC. As long as they pay their tax, that is about as far as it should go. <> IMC retired PCs really don't retire. Their place in the Game changes. Mainly it keeps them out of low to mid level adventures. It lets the next generation do for themselves. A retired high level PC can use his wealth and prestige to live a little. I usually offer sound reason to have the PCs retire. A civilized life still offers much. Rivals are created. Long forgotten enemies reappear. Someone has to sponser or hire PCs. Apprentices need to be trained. Advisors are needed to rulers. All adventures do not happen in catacombs or the proverbial dungeon knee deep in murky water. Cities and towns can provide some excellant adventure. Adventure that lends less to the drawing of a blade and focuses more on the brain. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:21:05 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Sorry... (was Re: [Mystara] Remove) At 17.04 15/12/97 +0100, I wrote: >At 05.31 14/12/97 EST, you wrote: >>To be removed from our lists please send a blank message to remove@cyber-market.net with the word REMOVE in the subject. Err.. i was confused... the aliens had just dropped me home after an abduction.. and i had seen Elvis walking down the street... and i had suddenly understood the secret of the universe... there was an invasion of locusts!! IT WASN'T MY FAULT!!!.... Ahem.. sorry for the mistake .. ;) DM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:58:49 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Adventures in Alphatia pt1 Generic Adventures- These are simple plots. They are designed to fit anmy situation on Mainland Alphatia. The exact course of action and details are up to the DM as he fleshes out the details. Part 2 will entail more descriptive adventures centered in specific areas of the Empire. Mage Rivalries A high level mage hires PCs to infiltrate a rival to gain some magic item or new spell. A simple plot that can evolve out to greater ranges. The employer can double cross the PCs upon returning with the item. The mage they are sent to take on, ends up swaying their opinion and loyalty. And so on..... Aid a nonSpellcaster A friend of the PC party is a nonspellcaster. Recently his father/brother/mother/etc died leaving him as heir. Unfortunately, a relative who is a spellcaster takes advantage of the situation to assert his own spellcasting ability to inherit the estate. The relative uses the feeling of the ruling spellcasters against the rightful heir. Or the relative could set the friend up to gain the estate that way. The relative could even be the cause of the death. Disgruntled nonSpellcaster- Not all Alphatians can cast spells. As such, there are those that are fit as warriors and see the Imperial magocracy as unjust. They could act as an avenging force against mages that "impose their will" upon the common folk. Surely the PC will find allies among simular disgruntled Alphations. In fact, he will have to. Alone he would surely perish rather quickly. The Fetch- Simular to the "Rival Mages" scenario. However, in this case the PCs are hired (possibly kept on retainer) to acquire items, components, monsters, monster parts, etc. for a particular mage. The employment can be one time or a long term arrangement. In working with the mage and bringing him fame, the PCs will also gain notoriety and prestige. With this added prestige, comes many options. Rivals may wish to eleimate the mages provider of stuff. The sponser mage may become jealous of the growth of prestige the PCs are getting. And so on....... Recently reinstated- A PC has just been discharged from the Imperial Armed Forces (honorable or dishonorably, up to DM and is subject to circumstances). Coming back to Alphatia, he sees the Empire in a different light. However, instead of acting as a rogue, he acts within the lawful boundaries. Years of loyal service to the Empire makes it hard for him to act against Alphatia proper. How he chooses to express his attitude is up to the Player. Recently Reinstated 2- A PC comes home from having served the Imperial Navy for years. During his tenure, he became initiated in the art of spellcasting and became a boltman aboard a Man o War. His family and friends are not spellcasters. Interesting to see and play out the clash of cultures. The RolePlaying aspect alone is appealling. Setting Out- A PC wishes to see the rest of Empire as well as the world. However, to leave the bounderies of Mainland Alphatia he must travel across a goodly portion. Along the way, opportunities arrise to adventure. Not only will this provide xp but also money to afford passage once a port city is reached. Newly Apprenticed- A young mage begins the epic of adventure to gain xp. Still bound by his master, he performs tasks not only to gain xp, but also to earn his keep. Just how much aid the master gives the apprwentice is up to the DM. IMC mages usually apprentice for 3-5 lvls. All mages have to start at 1st lvl. Even the mighty "Terari" was once an apprentice. Albeit, his being of Imperial blood helped. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #229 ***************************** mystara-digest Tuesday, December 16 1997 Volume 02 : Number 230 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:45:03 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages << don't raise the number of high level characters elsewhere!!!! we need lower level campaigns, not higher. at least i do. it's more fun, less of a headache, and it's easier to come up with challenging monsters. >> I'm stuck of low level campaigns. Right now I'm playing a level 13 cleric, short before level 14 (next session). A big fun. BTW, he's no Ethengarian, but a Karameikan landed lord. The Ethengarian group is between 6 and 8 and I'm the DM. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:49:30 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages << here may be where our difference lies ... in my games, nobody goes up levels that fast (that's one limitation upon levels ... people get old and have to retire). my adventures tend to involve lots of gametime-consuming travel and day-to-day activities (politics, working for a living, etc.) and anyway the level of combat tends to actually be much lower than many D&D games because I make sure that it is deadly and unpredictable, which tends to keep players humble and cautious. This means they don't get to experience the thrill of rising in power as a reward for play except after a long long time, but it's my experience that games where characters rise too fast never hold together, and i don't get to play frequently anyway. How boring! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:59:01 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen << Several possibilities here: 1.Shadow elves and Schattenalfen had some brief contact at some point. Remember, the Schattenalfen built Aengmor which was not all that far from the Shadow Elves lands. >> IIRC, the break under the Shadow Elves/Schattenalfen came after the construction of Aengmor. << 2.Rafiel found another branch of elves who shared the same ancestors as his Shadow Elves. He discovered that they follow his enemy Atzanteotl and decided to try and convert some of them to his cause... sort of undermining operations. As a follow-up, this could mean that Rafiel might also try to get followers among the Icevale elves (which Immortals do they follow?) >> Fredar, Fredara, Wotan and Donar, also known as Frey, Freya, Odin and Thor Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:42:08 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: Sorry... (was Re: [Mystara] Remove) On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, DM wrote: >Ahem.. sorry for the mistake .. I forgive you :) Dunno if that counts... Håvard Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:45:57 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, JamugaKhan wrote: ><< don't raise the number of high level characters elsewhere!!!! we need >lower level campaigns, not higher. at least i do. it's more fun, less of a headache, and it's easier to come up with challenging monsters. >> >I'm stuck of low level campaigns. Right now I'm playing a level 13 cleric, short >before level 14 (next session). A big fun. Ofcourse that can be fun. I dont think that was what Mathew(or wasn't that you?) meant. Rather that you shouldn't increase the number of high level characters in general( read:NPCs) In a high level campaign it is still a lot more fun with relatively few powerful NPCs, since that makes your pcs feel more powerful. Dont you agree? Sincerely Håvard ***** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:52:52 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, Stroll wrote: >Give up!?! Never! >I think one should think of the struggle between entropy and the other four spheres of power as a natural struggle of survival. As already pointede out in this discussion, Mystara is not a classic fantasy-world where Good vs. Evil is the most important issue. Instead it is a world of constant struggle between a number of factions with differing "religious" views. The four "good" spheres (energy, matter, thought and time) symbolizes the creative and building forces of the multiverse; without them, nothing would ever exists. The Sphere of Entropy symbolizes the destructive force of the multiverse; if this sphere were lacking, everything would be eternal and the four creative spheres would choke on eachother, it would be impossible for life as Mystarans know it to exist. >Therefore I consider the entropic sphere as just another part of life; if you have Yin, you're going to need Yang... >Of course, not even the immortals have even the faintest idea about this; the struggle for power will only cease when one of the spheres is finally destroyed, and the the balance of it all would be...(complete vocabulary failure)...unbalaced for ever, thus entropy would reign until it had destroyed itself... Sounds reasonable to me. However, in spite of certain statements in the Immortals rules, does this need to be the official truth? Some pretty reasonable Immortals might thing so, but shouldn't there be at least a small chance that they are wrong too? After all, many immortals are wise, responsible and idealistic. Couldn't there be a life without entropy? This may be controversial, but I couldn't resist. A merry Yule to you too fellow norseman. And to the rest of ya aswell. Sincerely Håvard Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:53:24 -0500 From: Wesley Dean Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages << << here may be where our difference lies [...] in my games, nobody goes up levels that fast (that's one limitation upon levels [...] my adventures tend to involve lots of gametime-consuming travel and day-to-day activities (politics, working for a living, etc.) >> How boring! Well, I tend to disagree with you. A typical person would spend most of their time traveling, working, etc... for example, if a 'dungeon' (generic use) is a 2 day trek through the Cruth mountians, the characters will most likely spend 4-5 days walking and less than a day in the actual 'adventure.' It simply isn't realistic to have 90% of a character's waking hours spent hacking-and-slashing orcs and whatnot. Even if the characters go from one adventure to another, less than 25% of their time would be spent in 'dungeons.' Furthermore, I object to the way TSR has portrayed the 'known world' in their PWA's. I like the politics and the interactions but I don't like the idea of a character from Karameikos, a nation, in AC1004, not known for their citizen's magical abilities (at least not as much as Alphadia or Glantri) being in her 30s and having reached 28th level (Claransa the Seer) much less 7 years later having reached 36th level. She would have had to gain more than a level per year assuming she did had 0 xp at the age of 11. Assuming that she did start at age 11, she would have been at name level before she turned 20. (PWAII, 126) Whereas the good king Stefan Karameikos gained, while ruling, less than 1/2 a level per year when experience is gained (PWAII, 134-5, GAZ1, 42). This leads me to another diagreement with TSR--rulers gain experience through ruling. Although this makes sense, a person who holds a large, settled, civilized area of land would gain a large amount of experience while not doing anything that I believe should count towards experience. For example, a ruler in the aforementioned situation could start as a level 1 fighter and could continually aquire experience without ever touching a sword (or other weapon), casting a spell, etc.. In an aging ruler, they would be gaining experience and asssumable levels which would add to one's hit point totals. His age, however, should be detracting from his total hit point pool. Imagine an 80 year old man who does nothing other than sit and make decisions--one would assume this person to be any easy target for the potential assassin. Due to the experience through ruling, however, he has 100+ hp and saving throws to rival any adventurer. Moreover, regarding dominion administration, one's base confidence level is equal to a random seed plus all six of a characters' ability scores. Consequently, a character with 18 str and 3 int would generally be a better ruler than a character with 3 str and 17 int. Also, a component of one's ability to lead an army is based on the leader's (and his subordinates') level. It is possible that a 36th level character who has done nothing other than sit and rule an island for 500 years (with frequent potions of longevity) who has never seen any for of confrontation to run an army better than a character trained at a military academy in the art of war with years of experience fighting orcs and whatnot. Again, this does not make sense... It is my opinion that the experience gained through ruling should be kept track of in a different abstraction than xp. BTW: I wrote a lot more than I planned to.... `'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`' W . e . s . l . e . y D . e . a . n http://web.syr.edu/~wodean http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/peaks/2542/afterhoursbbs.html mailto:wodean@mailbox.syr.edu Sysop of After Hours BBS : (716).774.0167 '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'` ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:16:22 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re: [Mystara] Desert Nomad modules See my web page http://people.delphi.com/ndaskal/dnd/modules.html for brief reviews. >Hello, >Could someone tell me a brief synopsis of the Desert Nomad modules (X4 and X5?, Temple of Death and Master of the Desert Nomads)? What are the PCs doing there, where are they doing it? I don't have these modules, but I'd like to run these adventures, so I need a synopsis from which I can create something myself. Thanks in advance. >***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but >** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." >** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." >***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:42:30 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatian origins On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, JamugaKhan wrote: >But the founder of Westrourke was Donegal Firestorm, father of Thrainkell Firestorm, the current leader of ths nation. He was from Oceansend and left this city when it declared its independency after the Alphatian Spike Attack. (BTW, he was a relative of the Oceanendian man Thrainkell Thorson, aka Thincol Torion). Some other loyalists left with him and together they build Westrourke. Later on Thincol and Donegal signed a treaty with the King of Ostland to found seven Ostland colonies in Westrourke. >This has been done now. BTW, there's an interesting question, why the Northmen never founded colonies on the IoD. I assume, they did, but as with the last colonization wave, the kings of Ostland used the IoD as a dump for those they want to get rid off. Probably the most colonists died out. One relic of these early colonizations might be Finnegar's Watch. I've wondered the same thing myself. The Ostlanders, at least, have settled there- some of the towns in Westrourke (see Trail Map 2) are distinctly Scandinavian-sounding names. As to why they haven't put a more solid claim on them thus far, well... I've got some ideas on that that may show up in the upcoming almanac... As for the Vestlanders and Soderfjorders, I don't really see the Vestlanders as being that expansionistic, and their interests, especially lately, with their increasing modernization, seem to be more in the main continent. I could see Soderfjord colonies on the IoD, certainly, though they'd likely not maintain ties with the (former) Jarldoms very much, as until Soderfjord's recent "kingdom-ization" they had a very informal political structure at best. I could see some Soderfjord colonies in the Dunadale or Redstone regions, possibly. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:18:27 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages At 17.08 14/12/97 -0800, Sheer El-Showk wrote: >I am suprised that so many people are attempting to circumvent or criticize the generally high level of the Mystara campeign. I find it a huge boon rather than a bane. It certainly makes sense that if your PCs achieve teen levels (I play an AD&D converted campeign) in a few years of game time that the world would be far more litered with powerful people than most campeigns generally are. True, but I don't let my PC achieve high levels in so short a time. I'm DMing this group since 1994 (or 1993) IIRC and the higher level ones are 5th level now and I play D&D. This time I agree with Matthew. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:13:12 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen At 10.36 15/12/97 EST, Alex295 wrote: >Concerning Possibility #2 and the Icevale. >Not sure of the Immortals the Icevale Elves follow (don't have HW box handy). I do remember that the Icevale do follow the tradition of discarding genetically scarred and weak offspring. Unlike the Shadow Elves that abandon them to be raised by humanoids (ex Kol) the Icevale toss them over a cliff or into a ravine killing them. Also IIRC the Icevale are not to proud of this practice and keep it a secret. >The connection is there. Only the manner and fate of the children being different. As such, the assumption that Rafiel is followed by both can be reached. However, I have to wonder about the differences in the two in regards >to the ill perfect children. Are the Icevale young tossed away "saved" and placed with foster parents? You'll see more about this tradition in the upcoming net-almanac. I've already written a full page about the 2 strange customs of Shadow Elves (especially wanderers). - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:43:18 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen At 15.03 15/12/97 +0200, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >Several possibilities here: >1.Shadow elves and Schattenalfen had some brief contact at some point. Remember, the Schattenalfen built Aengmor which was not all that far from the Shadow Elves lands. Wait. I think that there's something wrong here. 1468 BC: Atruazin and his companions build Mictlan. (HW) 1420 BC: Underground elves wanderers conquer Mictlan and rename it Aengmor. They start building a bigger underground city. (GAZ 13) 1352 BC: Construction of Aengmor ended. (GAZ 13) 1290 BC: Atzanteotl surround Aengmor with lava, survivors flee deeper undeground. (GAZ 13) 1190 BC: Orcs resettle Aengmor naming it Oenkmar. (GAZ 13) 1104 BC: The fleeing elves discover the Refuge of Stone and take the name of Shadow Elves. (GAZ 13) Going with GAZ 13 it's the Shadow Elves who built Aengmor, not the Schattenalfen. And this makes sense also with the PWAs, where (IIRC) the Shadow Elves bring to the DDC evidence that they once owned Aengmor so they should have it, not the dwarves. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:10:09 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Tournament Questions (Quiz =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=B02?= ) At 17.08 15/12/97 +0100, DM wrote: >ECONOMICS (Total: 30 points) >1) What's the exchange rate for 1 gp in silver pieces and electrum pieces? (1) 1 gp=10 sp 1 gp=2 ep >2) What's the name of the Thyatian gold piece? (2) Lucinii ? >3) What's the exchange rate for 1 Glantrian Crown in gold pieces (in Glantri)? (2) 50 gp if still magical, 10 gp otherwise >4) Name 1 imported and 1 exported good by Ierendi (6) Imported food, exported fish >5) What's the wealthiest nation of the world after 1010 AC? (3) All Mystara or only the Old World? I would say Rockhome. >6) Name at least two nations of the world that don't impose taxes on its inhabitants. (5) Ierendi, Jaibul (I think in Jaibul they extort taxes...) >7) What's the Sales Tax? (3) A kind of tax :) >8) Name at least one nation of the Old World that doesn't use the gold piece (2) >9) Name at least one major feature of the Darokinian economic system (4) Certified Letter Of Credit (CLOC) >10) How much does a longsword normally cost? (2) 10 gp? >HISTORY (Total: 30 points) >1) Who was the first Thyatian Emperor? (2) 2) Who's the current (AC 1014) Emperor of Thyatis? (1) Euxebius >3) List at least two important events that changed the political scenario in the old world from AC 1009 to AC 1014. (2) Death of Thincol, foundation of NACE >4) Who is the current (AC 1014) Chancellor of Darokin? (3) Corwyn Mauntea >5) When and why Rockhome broke all the diplomatical relationships with Glantri? (4) When Glantrians started killing all dwarves in Glantri, blaming them for the plague. >6) Who is the most prominent figure of the Ylari history and why? (3) Al-Kalim, because he unified all the tribes. >7) When did Ierendi become an independent Kingdom? (5) 8) What is the Spikes' Assault and when did it take place? (6) 9) What is the oldest nation of the Old World? (2) Rockhome? (or Alfheim) >10) When did the Heldannic Knights take over the Heldann Freeholds? (2) Recently... just before 1000 AC >GEOGRAPHY (Total: 30 points) >1) Name at least three of the Ierendi islands. (2) Honor Island, Ierendi Island, Alcove Island, Safari Island, White Island >2) Which nations border on Ierendi? (3) Minrothad, Five Shires, Karameikos, maybe Darokin. >3) List at least 6 capitals of the Old World nations (2) Glantri City, Darokin City, Mirros, Thyatis City, Ierendi, Shireton >4) What's the most populated city of the Old World? (1) Thyatis City>5) What's the name of the most important river of Darokin? (3) Streel River >6) Which countries does the Overland Trade Route cross? (5) Is that the road trough Soderfjord, Vestland and Ostland or the one trough Darokin, Wester Broken Lands and Ethengar. I think it's the first one, but I'm not sure. >7) Where is the Great School of Magic (city/nation)? (1) Glantri City/Glantri >8) What's the longest river of the Old World? (4) Streel River >9) What's the highest mountain of the Old World and where is it located? (6) It's in Glantri. >10) Name at least three provinces controlled by the Empire of Thyatis (3) Provincia Septentriona, Provincia Meridiona, ? >MAGIC & RELIGION (Total: 30 points) >1) What is the holy book of the Eternal Truth? (4) Nameh >2) What is the symbol of the Heldannic Knights' Order? (1) A black lion >3) What is the official religion of Ierendi? (3) There's no official religion in Ierendi. >4) To which Immortal belongs the "Silver Moon" symbol? (2) 5) Who is the Immortal Patron of Justice and Revenge? (2) Tarastia? >6) Name one clerical and magic-user's spell of levels 1 and 2. (2) Clerical: cure light wounds/? Magical: read magic/phantasmal force >7) List all the powers of a (OD&D) Staff of Wizardry. (6) 8) What are the requirements a Magic-user must satisfy to cast a Wish spell? (5) 36th level, 18 Int >9) How many "Cure" clerical spells do exist? (1) 4 (light wound, serious wounds, critical wand, all) >10) How is the Multiverse divided according to the recent Theories on the Planes of Existence? (4) Inner Planes, Etheral Plane, Outer Planes (no time to explain it better) >MISCELLANEA (Total: 30 points) >1) How many calendars are diffused throughout the Old World by AC 1014? (3) Basically 3: Thyatian style one (Thyatis, Rockhome, Sind, Ylaruam...), Minrothad one, Shadow Elf one in Aengmor. (NACE is not part of the Old World, is it?) >2) What are the main festivals and holidays of Ierendi? (4) 3) How many of the current Sheriffs of the Five Shires are women? (3) 1 >4) Who is Oran Meditor? (1) Ruling Guild Master of Ierendi. >5) What are the true names of the so called "Northern Reaches"? (2) Ostland, Vestland, Soderfjord >6) Name at least two nations where slavery is legal. (3) Thyatis, Jaibul >7) Name one country where the ruler of the nation is also the head of the Church and of the army? (2) Jaibul (again), Hule and pre-WotI Sind are two other good examples. >8) List all of the current (AC 1014) Principalities of Glantri. (5) Gee... Albaan, Klantrye, Boldavia, Bramyra, Fenswick, Nouvelle Averoigne, Morlay-Malimbois, New Kolland, Sablestone, Erewan, Belcadiz, Bergdhoven and the one ruled by the Ethengarian illusionist. >9) When does the so called Day of Dread occurs? (1) 28 Kaldmont >10) What is Chi and where is it located? (6) Chi? Grassland of Chi, maybe... Ochalea? Nice questions, but I guess your PC did better than me. I don't know very much about Ierendi. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:12:31 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil Okay, one more stab at this ;) Alot of this talk reminds me of a religious discussion a friend and I had once. Since I agree that entrophy does not represent evil neccessarily, it does represent the end of all things which you could say is evil's eventual goal. But the only way for us to understand these absolutes is with the presense of the other. Absolute good has no concievable attributes without evil for contrast and the same for evil. In the end, both my friend and I decided that one couldn't exist without the other (at least for our minds). So, for entrophy to *win* there has to be the total destruction of all spheres as one will always be a contrast to it and thus keep it from becoming an absolute. For entrophy to be wiped out would be impossible since anything that ceases would bring about the formation of entrophy again. I purpose that the spheres of energy and entrophy are the only two spheres that are naturally occuring and each bring about the other's creation (with possibly, Matter also being naturally occuring). Since the writers chose to have all evil Immortals be entrophic is unfortunate since I could imagine an evil Time Immortal or Thought (at least I'm not aware of any). In fact, that is something I've been playing around with in my head since I see all the spheres vying for domination and not necessarily working together opposing entrophy only. That being said, can anyone imagine a character who is of non-evil alignment but sees entrophy as the natural order and seeks to help that order's goal be acheived (and would you consider him lawful or chaotic)? Or a character that sees good as the nature of things and seeks to stop entrophy? Or, one more, one that sees neutrality between the two sides as the natural order of the world? I would imagine most would see things from neutrality's point of view (I do) but the existence of all is possible in theory. Even if you use the AD&D rules for alignment, I would say that the Immortals are above the mortal perceptions of good and evil. They still are classified by lawful, neutral and chaotic. This explanes why a *good* Immortal does *evil* and also by allowing a cleric of a Immortal to not be allowed the use of spells that violate the lawful/neutral/chaotic ethics while the good/neutral/evil aspects are only a mortal religious taboos set down by those of the faith in that country. Much like Christianity was used against the native population of the United States but that same use would not have been tolerated at home. Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, Stroll wrote: >>Give up!?! Never! >>I think one should think of the struggle between entropy and the other four spheres of power as a natural struggle of survival. As already pointede out in this discussion, Mystara is not a classic fantasy-world where Good vs. Evil is the most important issue. Instead it is a world of constant struggle between a number of factions with differing "religious" views. The four "good" spheres (energy, matter, thought and time) symbolizes the creative and building forces of the multiverse; without them, nothing would ever exists. The Sphere of Entropy symbolizes the destructive force of the multiverse; if this sphere were lacking, everything would be eternal and the four creative spheres would choke on eachother, it would be impossible for life as Mystarans know it to exist. >>Therefore I consider the entropic sphere as just another part of life; if you have Yin, you're going to need Yang... >>Of course, not even the immortals have even the faintest idea about this; the struggle for power will only cease when one of the spheres is finally destroyed, and the the balance of it all would be...(complete vocabulary failure)...unbalaced for ever, thus entropy would reign until it had destroyed itself... >Sounds reasonable to me. However, in spite of certain statements in the Immortals rules, does this need to be the official truth? Some pretty reasonable Immortals might thing so, but shouldn't there be at least a small chance that they are wrong too? >After all, many immortals are wise, responsible and idealistic. Couldn't there be a life without entropy? >This may be controversial, but I couldn't resist. - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:45:38 +0100 From: Stroll Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil Hi there! Just answering your questions: >Since the writers chose to have all evil Immortals be entrophic is unfortunate >since I could imagine an evil Time Immortal or Thought (at least I'm not aware >of any). I don't think we agree quite, the authers might have been a bit prejudiced, but they have made a few exceptions. For example Pearl, the Ruler of All Chaotic Dragons are an immortal of the Sphere of Matter and she is undoubtedly evil. On the other hand Nyx of the Sphere of Entropy could *almost* be classified as good, as she only wishes for the living races to mature into undeadness! >That being said, can anyone imagine a character who is of non-evil alignment but sees entrophy as the natural order and seeks to help that order's goal be acheived (and would you consider him lawful or chaotic)? Wild Shot: A Druid in a heavily industralized area? (Neutral, of course...) >Or a character that sees good as the nature of things and seeks to stop entrophy? Maybe I'm not quite grasping this one, but isn't the stereotypical, naive Paladin a classic example of good above all, destroy (!) chaos? >Or, one more, one that sees neutrality between the two sides as the natural order of the world? Any "common" Druid, I'd say. Maybe even Terra would agree; she is a friend of Nyx after all, isn't she? >I would imagine most >would see things from neutrality's point of view (I do) but the existence of all is possible in theory. Two more copper pieces in the pot... Stroll May your lives be merry as a witches greetings!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:26:39 -0500 From: Maurice Mallette Subject: [Mystara] Priest spheres for AD&D2nd Ed. Hi guys, I have a quick question for 2nd Ed. DM's... What spheres do you give for your Priest characters? Looking at the Karameikos Kingdom of Adventure setting and Poor wizards almanac and it seems Priests(From Philosophers not venerating an Immortal to Priests of an Immortal) have access to the same schools as Clerics and function as such. Except in the case of certain Priests of specific Immortals, which give a few abilities(+4 to hit vs certain humanoids for Priests of Halav, +1 strenght for Priests of Petra). This is only "an educated guess" because I've never seen once(even for the kits at the end of the Karameikos setting) any specific mention of Priest Major/Minor access to Spheres. I've seen a few Specialty Priest templates made by Bruce Pierpont that look good(though I've seen conflicting Immortal Alignments from other sources, which is normal since we're switching from a Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic to a 9-Alignment system). I wish TSR would come out with something detailing how religions, clergy and priest abilities work on Mystara for 2nd Ed. It looks to me as though the base is the Cleric class and Priests of a specific Immortal are granted a few powers/abilities by their patron. Thing is the Tome of Magic gives us a few more spheres of influence, but even with the new player's handbook they don't tell us which new spheres of influence, if any, fall into the Cleric class(they mention the Tome of Magic exists nothing more), luckily in Faiths and Avatars for Forgotten Realms they somewhat clarify a few things(Clerics, Specialty Priests...) including spheres of influence for Paladins(same as Player's Handbook except they add Law because of the Tome of Magic), Rangers(Which have access to Travelers, though the complete book of rangers mentions the Tome of Magic it does not add the Travelers sphere of influence in their spell repertoir), basic Cleric(A few added spheres from the Tome of Magic) and a few more classes from the Priest Group. In my Mystara games I'm using the basic Cleric, Paladin and Ranger spheres of influence from this Forgotten Realms supplement, anyone else is doing this? How do you guys work in your games? Maurice Mallette ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:07:02 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [Mystara] GURPS Mystara Håvard Rønne Faanes meander fecklessly... >My own GURPS campaign is set in Karameikos AC 999. There are some AD&D monsters for GURPS available on Web. Also, conversions are available for converting NPCs etc. I'm working on some more Beasties and will probably post them later on. Any others will be appreciated. So, Haavard, what rules do you use for conversion? What racial templates do you use? How do you recreate clerical magic? Inquiring GURPS playes want to know... :) >I've made Mystara Normal Mana level, though this is debatable. Hollow World is probably low mana, and spells there are even more rare than in Karameikos. Normal mana is a good call. If you are looking to recreate the more cinematic feel of AD&D magic, you might try the Unlimited Mana rules. Have you seen these? >I only allow my players to chose spells from the basic set, though any characters from Glantri or Alphatia could know any spells from Magic and Grimoire. >I've tried to keep my campaign rather low on magic so far, since I'm not very experienced with the GURPS magic system. I have had a lot fo experience with the GURPS magic system, and I can offer a quick piece of advice... If you are starting out wiht low powered characters (100 points) and are trying to get a feel similar to 1st-3rd level AD&D characters, do _not_ let a mage start with Fireball or Lightning bolt! Although these spells have the drawback of longer casting, letting a starting character cast spells that do 3d damage is problematic. What I did was create a low powered version of all the missile spells, called Minor (Minor Fireball, Minor Lightning, etc.) that could only do 1d of damage, and the full versions of the spell has the minor verison as a prerquisite. Small bit of advice, but I wish I had received it before starting some of my early GURPS games all those years ago... Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:21:21 +0100 From: GEIR HELGE RYSTE Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------55112C831BE26627D73D9C01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matthew Levy wrote: >On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, Sheer El-Showk wrote: >Also while I don't like the fact of Alphetia >>being a tremendously more powerful nation than Thyatis I am quite satified by the Dawn of the Empires solution that Alphetia is more a conglomeration of warring irreconcilable mages than an actual nation per say. Thus only rarely can the national strength truly be rallied to any effect. >that seems to be the general consensus, and i see in game terms why this helps balance things politics-wise, but no one has yet given me a reason WHY it would be so that I find satisfying. If Alphatia is so disorganized, why don't factions within it ally with outside powers and get into civil wars? it seems organized enough to effectively keep Thyatis at bay (pre-WotI) but never enough to really do anything internationally. perhaps kind of like post cold war USA .. the example that keeps recurring in my mind. Also, if Alphatians are so unpatriotic, why don't more of them share their magical knowledge with outsiders? many other nations might pay huge amounts of gold for access to all those wands, spellbooks, scrolls, etc. - why aren't Ierendi naval officers all armed with boltthrowers? they could certainly afford it, and it would help keep the Thyatins away ... I don't think the Alphatians are unpatriotic, after all they belive themselves to be superior as a race to all others on Mystara, but they are disorganized as long as they don't have have a common external foe. If they have an external foe of sufficient power, they may band together and be a 1000 man strong force, not a 1000 single individuals. The prime example to this end is the attack on Glantri City. The Alphatians are letting their soldiers doing the fighting and doing a little scheeming and sabotage. Then suddenly the Glantrians reveals a weapon that leaves the all and mighty powerless! This I think would be enough to band anyone together. If the Doomsday weapon had'nt been fired, I don't think you ever would have seen the Council band together as they did. Remember, they are allpowerful, who cares if some peasants, who cant even cast spells dies?..... GHR Denne mailen er virus testet - --------------55112C831BE26627D73D9C01 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for GEIR HELGE RYSTE Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: GEIR HELGE RYSTE n: RYSTE;GEIR HELGE org: LOGISTIKK, DISKEN adr: TRONDHEIMSVN. 51B;;;OSLO;;0560;NORWAY email;internet: OSLGHR@INFOCARE.NO title: SERVICEMEDARBEIDER tel;work: 2317 1200 tel;fax: 2317 1241 tel;home: 2267 5177 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------55112C831BE26627D73D9C01-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 06:54:11 -0700 From: "Joe Gerber" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil - -----Original Message----- From: Stroll >I don't think we agree quite, the authers might have been a bit prejudiced, but they have made a few exceptions. For example Pearl, the Ruler of All Chaotic Dragons are an immortal of the Sphere of Matter and she is undoubtedly evil. On the other hand Nyx of the Sphere of Entropy could *almost* be classified as good, as she only wishes for the living races to mature into undeadness! Relative newbie here again. :-) IMC, Nyx is CN (with the caveat that she'll become LN if she ever gets what she wants) and Pearl is CE. I also have Ruaidhri Hawksbane (Initate of Thought, from PC4) as LE with NE leanings. >>Or, one more, one that sees neutrality between the two sides as the natural order of the world? >Any "common" Druid, I'd say. Maybe even Terra would agree; she is a friend of Nyx after all, isn't she? Yes, due to relative ages and common interests (creating new monster races). Joe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 07:06:24 -0700 From: "Joe Gerber" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Priest spheres for AD&D2nd Ed. - -----Original Message----- From: Maurice Mallette >Hi guys, I have a quick question for 2nd Ed. DM's... >What spheres do you give for your Priest characters? Looking at the Karameikos Kingdom of Adventure setting and Poor wizards almanac and it seems >Priests(From Philosophers not venerating an Immortal to Priests of an Immortal) have access to the same schools as Clerics and function as such. >Except in the case of certain Priests of specific Immortals, which give a few abilities(+4 to hit vs certain humanoids for Priests of Halav, +1 >strenght for Priests of Petra). >This is only "an educated guess" because I've never seen once(even for the kits at the end of the Karameikos setting) any specific mention of Priest >Major/Minor access to Spheres. >It looks to me as though the base is the Cleric class and Priests of a specific Immortal are granted a few powers/abilities by their patron. Thing is >the Tome of Magic gives us a few more spheres of influence, but even with the new player's handbook they don't tell us which new spheres of influence, >if any, fall into the Cleric class(they mention the Tome of Magic exists nothing >Priest Group. In my Mystara games I'm using the basic Cleric, Paladin and Ranger spheres of influence from this Forgotten Realms supplement, anyone >else is doing this? How do you guys work in your games? Once, a while back (about 2 years ago), I made my own adoptation of the Immortals to AD&D2 Priest Spheres. I took all the OD&D Druid spells, put them in a seperate sphere, and made them available only to Druids (and a few other specialaty priests). I then went through each Immortal and assigned what I considered logical spheres (e.g. Nyx had [Reversed] Sun, Terra had Creation, etc.). I didn't have (still don't, as a matter of fact) the ToM at the time, so I only used the PHB spheres. It, of course, was entirely subjective. Joe ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #230 ***************************** mystara-digest Wednesday, December 17 1997 Volume 02 : Number 231 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:01:57 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Tournament Questions (Quiz N°2 ) In a message dated 97-12-15 11:16:25 EST, you write: << ECONOMICS (Total: 30 points) 1) What's the exchange rate for 1 gp in silver pieces and electrum pieces? (1) 1 GP = 10 SP, 1GP = 20 or 2 EP 2) What's the name of the Thyatian gold piece? (2) Lucin 3) What's the exchange rate for 1 Glantrian Crown in gold pieces (in Glantri)? (2) 50GP IIRC the value drops if the enchantment is lost. 4) Name 1 imported and 1 exported good by Ierendi (6) imported-Spider Silk. export- fish obvious choice for an island nation 5) What's the wealthiest nation of the world after 1010 AC? (3) Ierendi or Minrothad. Neither were hurt badly bad Great War. Ierendi may have lost tourist trade while Minrothad traded with both sides. So I'm leaning toward Minrothad. 6) Name at least two nations of the world that don't impose taxes on its inhabitants. (5) No guess. 7) What's the Sales Tax? (3) Tax imposed upon an item at the point of sale. Based on value for the most part. 8) Name at least one nation of the Old World that doesn't use the gold piece (2) Atruagin Clans use barter. Some of the Northern Nations use barter (Denagoth?) Emerond also doesn't use currency as it takes the term "free market" quite literally. 9) Name at least one major feature of the Darokinian economic system (4) Only thing I can think of is the merchant families. 10) How much does a longsword normally cost? (2) 20GP? 30GP? 35GP? I should know this. HISTORY (Total: 30 points) 1) Who was the first Thyatian Emperor? (2) Doh! Was suceeded by his wife Empress Valentin (sp). 2) Who's the current (AC 1014) Emperor of Thyatis? (1) Eusebius. Son of Thincol, the previous Emperor. 3) List at least two important events that changed the political scenario in the old world from AC 1009 to AC 1014. (2) Clerics in Glantri. Death of Thincol. Karameikos as a nation. Shadow Elf Invasion. 4) Who is the current (AC 1014) Chancellor of Darokin? (3) Chancellor Maneteu. Not sure on first name. 5) When and why Rockhome broke all the diplomatical relationships with Glantri? (4) Glantrians blamed dwarves for the Plague. The mages were also wary of the dwarves' ability to resist magic. After that Glantrian mages took any opportunity to experiment on any dwarf they caught. Not sure about exact date. 6) Who is the most prominent figure of the Ylari history and why? (3) Al-Kalim. Drove out the Alphatians. Established the Eternal Truth. 7) When did Ierendi become an independent Kingdom? (5) Not sure. 8) What is the Spikes' Assault and when did it take place? (6) AC 950-something. Represented the Alphatian assault on Thyatis under Emperor Tylion. 9) What is the oldest nation of the Old World? (2) Ethengar? 10) When did the Heldannic Knights take over the Heldann Freeholds? (2) No guess. GEOGRAPHY (Total: 30 points) 1) Name at least three of the Ierendi islands. (2) Honor Island, Safari Island, and White island. 2) Which nations border on Ierendi? (3) None. Ierendi is an island nation :-) However, to the east is Minrothad. In a northern direction is Darokin, Karameikos, and Five Shires. Might throw in Thyatis but it may be too far to the north east 3) List at least 6 capitals of the Old World nations (2) Glantri City, Darokin City, Thyatis City, Minrothad City, Mirros, Dengar, City of the Stars. 4) What's the most populated city of the Old World? (1) Thyatis City 5) What's the name of the most important river of Darokin? (3) Streel since it opens out into the Sea of Dread. 6) Which countries does the Overland Trade Route cross? (5) ??? 7) Where is the Great School of Magic (city/nation)? (1) Glantri City, Glantri not to be confused with the School of Magecraft in Krakatos, Karameikos. 8) What's the longest river of the Old World? (4) Streel I think it runs through a couple of countries. 9) What's the highest mountain of the Old World and where is it located? (6) Not sure. I think it is in one of the Glantrian mountain ranges. 10) Name at least three provinces controlled by the Empire of Thyatis (3) Hinterlands, any of the northern IoD domains allowed after the treaty with Thothia except Helskir, and Aegos. MAGIC & RELIGION (Total: 30 points) 1) What is the holy book of the Eternal Truth? (4) Al Kalim's teachings and lessons of life. 2) What is the symbol of the Heldannic Knights' Order? (1) Black Lion or Black Eagle. Lean towards Lion. 3) What is the official religion of Ierendi? (3) Some sort of generic pantheon type. 4) To which Immortal belongs the "Silver Moon" symbol? (2) Asterius 5) Who is the Immortal Patron of Justice and Revenge? (2) Tarastia? 6) Name one clerical and magic-user's spell of levels 1 and 2. (2) MU 1st Magic Missile (a favorite of mine) 2nd Fly CL 1st Light 2nd Bless (i think Bless is a 1st lvl spell in ad&d) 7) List all the powers of a (OD&D) Staff of Wizardry. (6) I should know this as I am running Brannart McGregor in a Glantri PBEM. 8) What are the requirements a Magic-user must satisfy to cast a Wish spell? (5) Intelligence of 18? Might be 17. And must be able to cast a 9th lvl spell. 9) How many "Cure" clerical spells do exist? (1) Cure Light Wounds, Cure Severe Wound, and Cure disease. 10) How is the Multiverse divided according to the recent Theories on the Planes of Existence? (4) No answer. MISCELLANEA (Total: 30 points) 1) How many calendars are diffused throughout the Old World by AC 1014? (3) At least 5? Shadow Elf, Minrothad, Thyatis, Ethengar, and Alphatian come to mind immediately. 2) What are the main festivals and holidays of Ierendi? (4) Should know this. Guess- Beginning of Tourist Season and Celebration of Independence. 3) How many of the current Sheriffs of the Five Shires are women? (3) Three I think, but don't ask me for their names or respective shireton. 4) Who is Oran Meditor? (1) Ruling GuildMaster of the Minrothad Guilds. An elf by birth. 5) What are the true names of the so called "Northern Reaches"? (2) No guess. Have Gaz but that would be cheating. 6) Name at least two nations where slavery is legal. (3) Thyatis. Alphatia? or is it still practiced after the Neatharum chick Jafila committed suicide in front of Eriadna? IIRC she outllawed it. Not sure if it extends to all of the Empire. Some of the northern Viking like nations practice it. 7) Name one country where the ruler of the nation is also the head of the Church and of the army? (2) Heldannic Territories 8) List all of the current (AC 1014) Principalities of Glantri. (5) Berghoven, Sablestone, Boldavia, Fenswick, Klantyre, New Averoigne, Bramyer, Krohndar, Erewan, Belcadiz, New Kolland, and Aalban. I think that's all of them. Please excuse the spelling. 9) When does the so called Day of Dread occurs? (1) 28th day of the 12th month. Kaldmont 28th by Thyatian calendar. 10) What is Chi and where is it located? (6) No idea. Sounds Asian. Ochalea? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:15:10 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages << Ofcourse that can be fun. I dont think that was what Mathew(or wasn't that you?) meant. Rather that you shouldn't increase the number of high level characters in general( read:NPCs) In a high level campaign it is still a lot more fun with relatively few powerful NPCs, since that makes your pcs feel more powerful. Dont you agree? >> If I understand him right, each PC around name level is simply too old for further adventures. I don't like this opinion. The number of high level NPCs is IMO not very important. When the adventure demands such NPCs, they're just there. Besides, what about following idea: The number of level 36 characters is as high as the number of characters level 25 to 35 together. The reason: Advancement after level 36 is really difficult. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:37:09 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages In a message dated 97-12-15 20:56:04 EST, brizio@lunet.it writes: >True, but I don't let my PC achieve high levels in so short a time. >I'm DMing this group since 1994 (or 1993) IIRC and the higher level ones are 5th level now and I play D&D. It seems to me that you have gone to the opposite extreme from the "Monty Haulers" -- a level per year of real time seems to be rather slow advancement. Unless you and your players don't get together that often, I would consider that rate to be a bit too slow. But to each his own, I guess. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:06:15 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] Priest spheres for AD&D2nd Ed. In a message dated 97-12-15 23:00:53 EST, soliton@total.net writes: >What spheres do you give for your Priest characters? Looking at the Karameikos Kingdom of Adventure setting and Poor wizards almanac and it seems >Priests(From Philosophers not venerating an Immortal to Priests of an Immortal) have access to the same schools as Clerics and function as such. Based on the OD&D information for priests, that would seem to be correct. Priests with access to Druidic spells (for example, those of Al-Kalim as given in _Wrath of the Immortals_) might be given minor access to the Druidic spheres in addition to those granted to Clerics, but most other priests should basically be plain Clerics, with one or two extra abilities. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:35:06 -0500 From: dcmoore@worldlynx.net (Chad & Diane Moore) Subject: [Mystara] Thoughts on advancement and a question: >It seems to me that you have gone to the opposite extreme from the "Monty Haulers" -- a level per year of real time seems to be rather slow advancement. Unless you and your players don't get together that often, I would consider that rate to be a bit too slow. But to each his own, I guess. Hi--I'm new. I just started a campaign a few weeks back where I'm starting my people at 5th level using some 2nd AD&D rules and the D&D rules smashed together. It seems to be working so far. I just wanted to add that while giving levels up too quickly is going to spoil adventurers, you don't want to withold advancement too much. If there isn't enough rewards people lose interest, if there's too much your players begin to walk all over you. It's taken me about 10 yrs to get to the midpoint of where I am now. I'm three adventures into the campaign and two of the players are about halfway to sixth level. One poor guy met the business end of a wight and lost one. What I'm trying to get at as I ramble is you've got to keep it interesting. If you've been in a campaign since the early nineties with slow advancement and your players are still into it--then cool! I can honestly say I'm impressed. I come from a very old school of players and add into that a live-action element which I also do, and you have players that want a little more to their game. Which leads me to this question: Does anyone do anything with character histories? Chad Chad & Diane Moore dcmoore@worldlynx.net http://www.xanodria.com 1-800-XPI-GAME ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:15:42 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages >too fast never hold together, and i don't get to play frequently anyway. >How boring! no, it isn't. It's just that the fun doesn't come from rising in levels or increasing the power of a character ... I have never enjoyed that myself, since my favorite characters I have played were in campaigns where I figured out interesting ways to use my limited powers, rather than ones in which my power was constantly increasing (and all I had to do was use it to gain more power) ... I think that limitations are what makes the game fun, not power. and in my campaign, not every player likes the way i do things, but most do and they come back to play again, in spite of the fact that they may often have multiple characters, play each only very infrequently, and almost never gain a lot of power. it's playing their part in the larger integrated tapestry of the campaign narrative, and in developing a personality, that they seem to like. some of my players might contradict me on this - too bad none are on this list (i'm not being sarcastic). m@2 >>>>Jamuga Khan >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:21:29 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages hear, hear! m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, Wesley Dean wrote: ><< << here may be where our difference lies [...] in my games, nobody goes up levels that fast (that's one limitation upon levels [...] my adventures tend to involve lots of gametime-consuming travel and day-to-day activities (politics, working for a living, etc.) >> >How boring! >Well, I tend to disagree with you. A typical person would spend most of their time traveling, working, etc... for example, if a 'dungeon' (generic use) is a 2 day trek through the Cruth mountians, the characters will most likely spend 4-5 days walking and less than a day in the actual 'adventure.' It simply isn't realistic to have 90% of a character's waking hours spent hacking-and-slashing orcs and whatnot. Even if the characters go from one adventure to another, less than 25% of their time would be spent in 'dungeons.' >Furthermore, I object to the way TSR has portrayed the 'known world' in their PWA's. I like the politics and the interactions but I don't like the idea of a character from Karameikos, a nation, in AC1004, not known for their citizen's magical abilities (at least not as much as Alphadia or Glantri) being in her 30s and having reached 28th level (Claransa the Seer) much less 7 years later having reached 36th level. She would have had to gain more than a level per year assuming she did had 0 xp at the age of 11. Assuming that she did start at age 11, she would have been at name level before she turned 20. (PWAII, 126) Whereas the good king Stefan Karameikos gained, while ruling, less than 1/2 a level per year when experience is gained (PWAII, 134-5, GAZ1, 42). This leads me to another diagreement with TSR--rulers gain experience through ruling. Although this makes sense, a person who holds a large, settled, civilized area of land would gain a large amount of experience while not doing anything that I believe should count towards experience. For example, a ruler in the aforementioned situation could start as a level 1 fighter and could continually aquire experience without ever touching a sword (or other weapon), casting a spell, etc.. In an aging ruler, they would be gaining experience and asssumable levels which would add to one's hit point totals. His age, however, should be detracting from his total hit point pool. Imagine an 80 year old man who does nothing other than sit and make decisions--one would assume this person to be any easy target for the potential assassin. Due to the experience through ruling, however, he has 100+ hp and saving throws to rival any adventurer. Moreover, regarding dominion administration, one's base confidence level is equal to a random seed plus all six of a characters' ability scores. Consequently, a character with 18 str and 3 int would generally be a better ruler than a character with 3 str and 17 int. Also, a component of one's ability to lead an army is based on the leader's (and his subordinates') level. It is possible that a 36th level character who has done nothing other than sit and rule an island for 500 years (with frequent potions of longevity) who has never seen any for of confrontation to run an army better than a character trained at a military academy in the art of war with years of experience fighting orcs and whatnot. Again, this does not make sense... >It is my opinion that the experience gained through ruling should be kept track of in a different abstraction than xp. >BTW: I wrote a lot more than I planned to.... >`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`' >W . e . s . l . e . y D . e . a . n >http://web.syr.edu/~wodean >http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/peaks/2542/afterhoursbbs.html mailto:wodean@mailbox.syr.edu >Sysop of After Hours BBS : (716).774.0167 >'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'` ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:35:41 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages well, if Alphatians really do consider themselves a separate and superior race, that is interesting. Do you have a source for this? I thought Alphatians were pretty liberal in that respect, especially compared to Thyatins. Can't even monster spellcasters become aristocrats in Alphatia? If Alphatians are racial supremacists, how do they deal with Shiye, etc.? Are they perhaps rabid (non-racial) nationalists instead? do they have a subtle and implicit racist and nationalist bias, but not think of themselves as anything other than liberal and tolerant (even as they blast other countries to smithereens for defying their "values" (kind of like Americans)? let me know more on this. peace, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, GEIR HELGE RYSTE wrote: >Matthew Levy wrote: >>On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, Sheer El-Showk wrote: >>Also while I don't like the fact of Alphetia >>>being a tremendously more powerful nation than Thyatis I am quite satified by the Dawn of the Empires solution that Alphetia is more a conglomeration of warring irreconcilable mages than an actual nation per say. Thus only rarely can the national strength truly be rallied to any effect. >>that seems to be the general consensus, and i see in game terms why this helps balance things politics-wise, but no one has yet given me a reason WHY it would be so that I find satisfying. If Alphatia is so disorganized, why don't factions within it ally with outside powers and get into civil wars? it seems organized enough to effectively keep Thyatis at bay (pre-WotI) but never enough to really do anything internationally. perhaps kind of like post cold war USA .. the example that keeps recurring in my mind. Also, if Alphatians are so unpatriotic, why don't more of them share their magical knowledge with outsiders? many other nations might pay huge amounts of gold for access to all those wands, spellbooks, scrolls, etc. - why aren't Ierendi naval officers all armed with boltthrowers? they could certainly afford it, and it would help keep the Thyatins away ... >I don't think the Alphatians are unpatriotic, after all they belive themselves to be superior as a race to all others on Mystara, but they are disorganized as long as they don't have have a common external foe. If they have an external foe of sufficient power, they may band together and be a 1000 man strong force, not a 1000 single individuals. The prime example to this end is the attack on Glantri City. The Alphatians are letting their soldiers doing >the fighting and doing a little scheeming and sabotage. Then suddenly the Glantrians reveals a weapon that leaves the all and mighty powerless! This I think would be enough to band anyone together. If the Doomsday weapon had'nt been fired, I don't think you ever would have seen the Council band together as they did. Remember, they are allpowerful, who cares if some peasants, who cant even cast spells dies?..... >GHR >Denne mailen er virus testet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:51:57 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages Oh great Khan, It sounds like you prefer playing high level campaigns, and that for you the point of the campaign is to have a lot of fun with the adventure itself. How this fits into the "story of Mystara" is less important than whether the plot is compelling to the players at the time of play, is that right? I think that is an eminently reasonable attitude, and probably makes for great high level games, such as many I have played in. However, this point of view has several disadvantages: If you are not careful, it can lead to inconsistencies in the campaign world, which anal players may or may not notice. If powerful NPC's are "just there when you need them", players who look for the background of that NPC in order to understand WHY they were there may end up causing the DM to have to do a lot of backtracking. Also, if you are the sort of DM who likes to have a consistent story just to have one (as am I), the shape of the campaign world itself may matter a lot to you regardless of the actual story line of various games. It's just a different level of focus. Furthermore, having a realistically balanced world system allows for you to derive adventure ideas from the politics of the world itself, and it allows players some basis upon which to guess at the power of their enemies ... although this can be kept very dangerous. In my campaigns, high level characters may often be mixed in in places where they are not expected ... so no PC, no matter how powerful, EVER just throws their weight around in a tavern without thinking ... or if they do they don't last very long. Also political ties (having a gold tablet from the Khan for instance) become often more important than being such-and-such level. I find this more interesting, more fun, and more compelling than level-oriented play, which doesn't interest me as much. Although as I said, your version makes perfect sense and you are welcome to it. One more thing, though, I never said name level characters were too old to adventure .. they just aren't usually going to be young enough or free enough of responsibility to adventure every day. But the best adventures in my Mystara are often part of more complex day to day politics. Also, some characters (priests and wizards) get more fit for adventure as they get older, even if they may need to rest on a staff from time to time ... old men with long white beards can often pump out the juju-juice like all get out. take care, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, JamugaKhan wrote: ><< Ofcourse that can be fun. I dont think that was what Mathew(or wasn't that >you?) meant. Rather that you shouldn't increase the number of high level characters in general( read:NPCs) In a high level campaign it is still a lot more fun with relatively few powerful NPCs, since that makes your pcs feel more powerful. Dont you agree? >> >If I understand him right, each PC around name level is simply too old for further adventures. I don't like this opinion. >The number of high level NPCs is IMO not very important. When the adventure demands such NPCs, they're just there. Besides, what about following idea: >The number of level 36 characters is as high as the number of characters level 25 to 35 together. The reason: Advancement after level 36 is really difficult. >Jamuga Khan >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:59:44 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thoughts on advancement and a question: for a while there was a move to put people's character histories on the web ... somebody has a webpage with a few that I did and a few others (who is that?) as for character advancement, it occurs to me that this discussion has been ignoring the logarithmic rate of xp gain necessary for level gain ... shouldn't characters go up levels very fast from level 1 and then slower after a while? and then perhaps stop slowing down and maybe even speed up after name level (when xp requirements stabilize)? anyway i think the only reason that has been advanced so far for the rate of level growth in most games is that of wanting to keep players interested ... and this can be balanced with a desire for play balance by just having more game time between actual sessions of play. that simple. that way characters can gain levels, but part of that experience will be the time of day-to-day living that is skipped over. Of course, this makes players perhaps feel like XP gain is not a direct reward for playing a game ... but if this is the logic, then WHY do players need a reward for playing a game? isn't the game itself fun, or do people always need to win something? who knows, just some thoughts. be good, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Chad & Diane Moore wrote: >>It seems to me that you have gone to the opposite extreme from the "Monty Haulers" -- a level per year of real time seems to be rather slow advancement. Unless you and your players don't get together that often, I would consider that rate to be a bit too slow. But to each his own, I guess. >Hi--I'm new. >I just started a campaign a few weeks back where I'm starting my people at 5th level using some 2nd AD&D rules and the D&D rules smashed together. It seems to be working so far. I just wanted to add that while giving levels up too quickly is going to spoil adventurers, you don't want to withold advancement too much. If there isn't enough rewards people lose interest, if there's too much your players begin to walk all over you. It's taken me about 10 yrs to get to the midpoint of where I am now. I'm three adventures into the campaign and two of the players are about halfway to sixth level. One poor guy met the business end of a wight and lost one. What I'm trying to get at as I ramble is you've got to keep it interesting. If you've been in a campaign since the early nineties with slow advancement and your players are still into it--then cool! I can honestly say I'm impressed. I come from a very old school of players and add into that a live-action element which I also do, and you have players that want a little more to their game. >Which leads me to this question: >Does anyone do anything with character histories? >Chad >Chad & Diane Moore >dcmoore@worldlynx.net >http://www.xanodria.com >1-800-XPI-GAME ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 00:25:23 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages In a message dated 97-12-16 23:52:43 EST, mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu writes: >well, if Alphatians really do consider themselves a separate and superior >race, that is interesting. Do you have a source for this? I thought Alphatians were pretty liberal in that respect, especially compared to Thyatins. Can't even monster spellcasters become aristocrats in Alphatia? _Dawn of the Emperors_ itself is the best source for Alphatian racial attitudes. They generally consider Alphatians and Thothians as superior to other humans, with Elves also "acceptable". Monster spellcasters are nobles in Limn, but not elsewhere. But regardless of racial biases, they do hold all spellcasters to be superior to all non-spellcasters. On the other hand, Thyatians (with the exception of Hattians) are pretty liberal in regards to race -- among Thyatians, one is judged primarily by how well one fights. Mages are respected as "efficient fighters", espeically if they know spells such as Fireball that are effective in combat. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:04:23 -0800 From: Sheer El-Showk Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thoughts on advancement and a question: >Which leads me to this question: >Does anyone do anything with character histories? If you're interested please see my other mail regarding general gaming styles. About your question, especially if a character hasn't been played with a long time, but not developed much, I have the player write a short-story or paragraph with a dramatic description of the character, which actually helps visualize the character. What I would also love to do, if there were enough original fantasy drawings (i.e. not cononical TSR art) of the right type, is to have the player choose a picture of the character to help visualize him. Sheer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:08:47 -0800 From: Sheer El-Showk Subject: [Mystara] Gaming styles We see to have entered into a discussion regarding gaming styles so I want to throw out my own ideas in a free-format and allow everyone to respond to the individual points as a way to get an idea about how others role-play. I've been playing AD&D since about 1989 and various other loosely role-playing games since even earlier. The earlier years where quite helarious; I started of as a DM with no previous playing experience and was surrounded by other gamers who viewed stretching the rules as the best way of getting their characters to advance while their DM found ingenious ways to torture them. In these early campeigns experience was metted out in rediculously liberal quantities which led to those high level characters I described earlier. I have recently modified the characters from those old campeigns and started a newer one in which I've played three extensive adventures (including a venture to the underdark -- some of the characters where from drow or svirfnelbli, and capture of the mage by an evil lich -- from which he was rescued by another lich) which I consider some of the most balanced, realistic playing I have ever enjoyed and the characters are only third level (they have the xp for fifth, but they havn't rested for long enough to train -- I am a pretty old school player). Sorry if I seem to be dragging, but I'm trying to show the evolution of my game. The characters however have a very developed history and personalities since the game playing focused on realism and we'de spend occasional sessions in inns with the characters trying to come to a descision. While their low level campeigns are neat, I also love playing at high levels because there's just a neat element to having incredible but not invincible characters who mingle with Gods and demon-lords. Anyway, I have other things to do now, but I just thought I'd throw this out and see what kind of a response it illicits. Sheer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:21:46 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages my mistake. i am not very familiar with DoE though I own it ... I never run campaigns in either Empire proper, though I do a lot on the IoD. what you say makes more sense. m@2 On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 97-12-16 23:52:43 EST, mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu writes: >>well, if Alphatians really do consider themselves a separate and superior >>race, that is interesting. Do you have a source for this? I thought Alphatians were pretty liberal in that respect, especially compared to Thyatins. Can't even monster spellcasters become aristocrats in Alphatia? >_Dawn of the Emperors_ itself is the best source for Alphatian racial attitudes. They generally consider Alphatians and Thothians as superior to other humans, with Elves also "acceptable". Monster spellcasters are nobles in Limn, but not elsewhere. But regardless of racial biases, they do hold all spellcasters to be superior to all non-spellcasters. >On the other hand, Thyatians (with the exception of Hattians) are pretty liberal in regards to race -- among Thyatians, one is judged primarily by how well one fights. Mages are respected as "efficient fighters", espeically if they know spells such as Fireball that are effective in combat. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:38:46 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gaming styles It sounds to me like your experience is much like that of most players or DM's ... when you first start out, you do things in an unbalanced, overblown way, which can be fun, but tends to undermine the tension of the game, after which you go back to an "old school" approach where you stay very conservative ... actually I've found myself go back and forth serveral times; i think you just get tired of one style after a time. What I have long quested for is a way to keep things balanced and yet still exciting ... I think D&D is a wonderful game especially in Mystara because there is just so much information and it is quite accessible (unlike, for instance, ICE games where you have to learn an arcane system of charts and tables, or White Wolf games where you have to spend all of your time developing a defined aesthetic sensibility, not exploring the one you already had ...) the problem with D&D, however, is that it's combat system is neither balanced nor realistic, and never has been so ... the original chainmail-inspired combat system was better suited to abstracting large scale battles than to dealing with the nuances of combat for ordinary or low-level hominids, and this has remained the case. when a 1st level guy gets only a couple of hit points, he has a lot of risk in combat situations and tends to die very quickly in a world in which higher level characters and monsters can mete out tons of damage and in which he has simply no chance of killing someone much higher in power than himself. two traditional ways to evade this are to lessen the amount of combat and make role-playing primary, focusing the game on non-lethal conflicts like magic, problem solving, etc., or to increase the survivability of low level characters (by starting them higher - as in Dark Sun - or giving them better hit points and abilities by inflating their stats - as in a lot of monty haul campaigns). i think a way that i like better is to increase the vulnerability of higher level characters and monsters by providing dangerous magic items and weaponry to low level guys, and using critical hits from the player's option combat book. i also use non-lethal situations frequently, or have low level characters apprenticed to high level people who can protect them (somewhat). i also tend to make the game generally pretty random, so that the level of danger is not carefully controlled nor is it particularly tied to rate of experience gain. thus low level characters do a little better but high level characters actually have more chance of random death. some players are happier with this situation than others. anyway the real problem is just that D&D wasn't designed carefully at the outset. people can worship gygax all they like but there are better game systems around (warhammer is pretty damn good in certain respects), but none are as well developped. if i new gurps i would probably use it for mystara. i tend to just use AD&D cuz everyone knows it. one of these days i'll get frustrated and jump ship to some other system again. all those years of rolemaster were pretty damn unproductive, but they did make for better combat in some ways. if anyone can suggest a solution to the hit point problem that doesn't totally disrupt the rest of the game (like spell levels, monsters, every other damn thing you'd have to reconsider) i'd love to hear it. down with dragons, up with pixies. peace, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Sheer El-Showk wrote: >We see to have entered into a discussion regarding gaming styles so I want to throw out my own ideas in a free-format and allow everyone to respond to the individual points as a way to get an idea about how others role-play. >I've been playing AD&D since about 1989 and various other loosely role-playing games since even earlier. The earlier years where quite helarious; I started of as a DM with no previous playing experience and was surrounded by other gamers who viewed stretching the rules as the best way of getting their characters to advance while their DM found ingenious ways to torture them. In these early campeigns experience was metted out in rediculously liberal quantities which led to those high level characters I described earlier. I have recently modified the characters from those old campeigns and started a newer one in which I've played three extensive adventures (including a venture to the underdark -- some of the characters where from drow or svirfnelbli, and capture of the mage by an evil lich -- from which he was rescued by another lich) which I consider some of the most balanced, realistic playing I have ever enjoyed and the characters are only third level (they have the xp for fifth, but they havn't rested for long enough to train -- I am a pretty old school player). Sorry if I seem to be dragging, but I'm trying to show the evolution of my game. The characters however have a very developed history and personalities since the game playing focused on realism and we'de spend occasional sessions in inns with the characters trying to come to a descision. While their low level campeigns are neat, I also love playing at high levels because there's just a neat element to having incredible but not invincible characters who mingle with Gods and demon-lords. Anyway, I have other things to do now, but I just thought I'd throw this out and see what kind of a response it illicits. >Sheer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:39:06 +0800 From: Glenn Butcher Subject: Re: [Mystara] Character histories Chad & Diane Moore rambled (dcmoore@worldlynx.net): >>It seems to me that you have gone to the opposite extreme from the "Monty Haulers" -- a level per year of real time seems to be rather slow advancement. Unless you and your players don't get together that often, I would consider that rate to be a bit too slow. But to each his own, I guess. [Snip] >Which leads me to this question: >Does anyone do anything with character histories? I do! One of my characters kept a journal, and several people in one of my campaigns keep a journal. http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/campaign/alvy.html http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/campaign/cu.html (the latter has restarted, and has been recently updated). Writing it up, and posting a URL is quite acceptable. If you don't have web access, I'm certain some people would be happy to keep it on thier pages. - -- Glenn Butcher | knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au "Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)" (Linus Torvalds, about his failing hard drive on linux.cs.helsinki.fi) ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #231 ***************************** mystara-digest Wednesday, December 17 1997 Volume 02 : Number 232 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:23:51 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Priest spheres for AD&D2nd Ed. this bit about a type of priest called a philosopher who venerates no immortal is fascinating to me ... i seem to remember something about it from the K:KoA set (which sucked so bad i tend to keep it out of sight where it wont revulse me) ... if this is possible, doesn't it kind of trouble the idea of clerical magic somewhat? does this mean that priestly magic ISN'T really jsut given by immortals? perhaps it is just a different style of magic from wizard spells, but the sources don't match up with the styles perfectly. could there be philosophical wizards? wizardly priests? etc.? perhaps my ideas about mixing the spell lists weren't so unprecedented either. one thing that occurs to me is that a lot of the demonic summoning wizard spells (spiritwrack etc.) ought to be accessible to evil clerics who deal with the lower planes, and particularly thought-oriented wizard spell (geometric stuff, or mind control magic) might be accessible to philosophers or mystics. the whole concept of magic in Mystara seems not to have been really carefully thought out anywhere that i know of in the TSR material. perhaps one of our great mystara historians could write something about how precisely the various crafts of magic have evolved in the centuries since the Entities, Ka, the Carnifex, the rise of the Serpentines, Thonia, Blackmoor, the crash of the Beagle, Rafiel, the Great Rain of Fire, the Axial Shift, the creation of the Nucleus, the rise of Taymora, Nithia, the arrival of the Alphatians, Glantri and the radiance and Etienne, WotI, the destruction of Alphatia, etc. ... obviously magic itself is evolving as is the nature of immortality itself (which is conceptually so central to Mystara) ... perhaps this reflects even larger events on the scale of the Old Ones, the Entities, or the Spheres themselves. My own proto-theory is that this has something to do with the rise of Psionics on Mystara (which is growing in parallel to the decline of magic as the Nucleus drains it out) ... a thought connected to this is that psionics users would be able to utterly wreak havoc during the day (or week) of no magic, with no magic to oppose them. this is why i think that Illithids and Githyanki are so central to the future of Mystara, and I think it has also to do with the Entities and especially Arik of the One Hundred Eyes, whose return to Mystara (PC success in B3 notwithstanding) is pretty imminent. This also has to do with the disruptions in the time stream that have (in my particular parallel Mystara and perhaps elsewhere) led to the temporary never-having-existedness of Khoronus, and thus the bizarre historical shifts which are leading to the integration of my 16year old campaign with canon history ... I am hoping in the future that I can thrash my campaign into a shape where it can join up with the canon timeline in a way that others will find reasonable ... this will cause all kinds of chaos and some of it may spill over into other mystaras but i think i can perhaps pull it off. my girlfriend suggests that it would be a shame not to share everything I have developed with the rest of you M-freaks, so get ready and hold onto your spectral horses ... if I am giving you a headache, you can send hate mail to her at the address above. :) :) anyway how about this idea: Barimoor has learned of the existence of psionics from travellers who have visited both Yavdlom and the Kopru of the Isle of Dread. He is conspiring to train an army of psionic assasins in his underground complex and will use them in the coming years to try to take control of various governments during the Day of Dread, and eventually wants to find out the location and nature of the Nucleus of the Spheres, which he will use to build nuclear missiles in his secret silo complex under the Alasiyan desert. Only a team of specially trained Alphatian commandoes, polymorphed into undead ethereal astral-projected kung-fu kick-boxing mind flayers with bracers of defense AC -20, protection versus everything, can stop him. okay when i said before that i always liked low power campaigns, i was lying. anyway i now have absolutely no hope of getting my work done before final grades are due (which is why i am going beserk on the list) but I STILL should get my papers finished before I leave for the holidays. So I will go, after just a few more questions: Do you think the Carnifex knew chronomancy? If the Beagle was from the federation, are the Oards the Borg? How does the Big Blue Head Guy from Star Trek V (you know, God) figure in? is Q an Old One? perhaps Nyarlathotep? Does Azathoth play D&D? If the Star Ship Enterprise got into a battle with a whole asteroid full of beholders, who would win? Does Korotiku like the Night Spider? Is she an avatar of Lolth? If Mystara invaded Oerth, Oerth would get its ass kicked, right? send in a team of Alphatian bolt throwers and level the frickin' Temple of Detrimental Weevils, or whatever it is. One last thing: Why haven't the Gnomish Space Marines contacted Flying Serraine? or have they? peace, m@2 "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." H.P.Lovecraft On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 97-12-15 23:00:53 EST, soliton@total.net writes: >>What spheres do you give for your Priest characters? Looking at the Karameikos Kingdom of Adventure setting and Poor wizards almanac and it >seems >>Priests(From Philosophers not venerating an Immortal to Priests of an Immortal) have access to the same schools as Clerics and function as such. >Based on the OD&D information for priests, that would seem to be correct. Priests with access to Druidic spells (for example, those of Al-Kalim as given in _Wrath of the Immortals_) might be given minor access to the Druidic spheres in addition to those granted to Clerics, but most other priests should basically be plain Clerics, with one or two extra abilities. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 02:24:15 -0500 From: Eric <95390525@callisto.si.usherb.ca> Subject: Re: [Mystara] Character histories Glenn Butcher wrote: >Chad & Diane Moore rambled (dcmoore@worldlynx.net): >>Which leads me to this question: >>Does anyone do anything with character histories? >I do! > >One of my characters kept a journal, and several people in one of my campaigns keep a journal. It's almost the same here!!! At our gaming club at the University, players and masters are writing stories about what happend to there characters in diverse campaing. It's very interesting to see all the different things players see and relate about there gaming session, there exploits, what they think about different NPC, etc!!! The important thing, is to have a very good background for your PC and your NPC Bye Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:41:03 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thotian Mystics ( was : Mystic to AD&D ) The source for my info on Thothian Spider Mystics is module M5: The Talons of Night. If you can find a place to buy it (perhaps another player on the list, or one of those clearing houses people sometimes discuss), I recommend it, as I don't have time nor would be legal copyrightwise to put all of the info from it on the list. The basic idea is that the mystics of Thothia have been corrupted by the Night Spider, an entropic immortal who has been banished to the Prime Material and lives over the underground lake of Avernus on the IoD (upriver from Thothia) ... she is worshipped by planar spiders and Aranea also. The Thothians don't know it, but their queen Aketheti is a demigodess, the daughter of the Night Spider, who has been married repeatedly to all the pharaohs for centuries back ... their cult is not outwardly evil, but the higher ups are often vampire mystics. their symbol is a stylized 8-cornered spider web, and they have a huge library full of arcane knowledge (they may even have been the source of the spell Haldemar of Haaken used to animate the Princess Ark). I have a spell list for them at home which I will post someday when I get the chance ... in my Mystara, they are a powerful force in the world but their motives are terribly obscure, they are highly conspiratorial and thus considered chaotic, but quite methodical (perhaps like spiders) ... they are possibly in contact with Herath as well as the Kopru and the Drow. They are, for as yet undisclosed reasons, extremely hostile to many types of dragons. They may be involved in the Zzonga trade. m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Tomas Sanchez wrote: >Matthew Levy wrote: >>AFAIK there are only two groups of mystics already detailed in Mystara: those in Lhamsa, Glantri, who do not serve a particular immortal as you say but seem a lot like AD&D 1st edition monks to me, and those in Thothia, who serve the Night Spider and her daughter Aketheti - and with these we have no reason to assume their power comes from within rather than from Arachne Prime and the sphere of entropy. >Hello Matthew. I have never heard of them before but i would be pretty interested in gathering some information about them and their strange cult. Would you please give me more information about them ? Thanks in advance. >Tomás Sánchez Tejero >deckard@encomix.es ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 02:25:57 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Priest spheres for AD&D2nd Ed. This is one thing I kept out of my campaign. To me, the Immortals were a major force that impacted Mystara all through it's history. Philosophy priests also go against why the Immortals require worshippers or fading away. If the priest can gain spells outside the Immortals then why are the Immortals restricted. IMC if you don't venerate an Immortal your not a cleric... but to each his own ;) Matthew Levy wrote: >this bit about a type of priest called a philosopher who venerates no immortal is fascinating to me ... i seem to remember something about it from the K:KoA set (which sucked so bad i tend to keep it out of sight where it wont revulse me) ... - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:31:33 -0800 From: mpalombo@erols.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gaming styles >(snip) >anyway the real problem is just that D&D wasn't designed carefully at the outset. people can worship gygax all they like but there are better game systems around (warhammer is pretty damn good in certain respects), but none are as well developped. if i new gurps i would probably use it for mystara. i tend to just use AD&D cuz everyone knows it. one of these days i'll get frustrated and jump ship to some other system again. all those years of rolemaster were pretty damn unproductive, but they did make for better combat in some ways. if anyone can suggest a solution to the hit point problem that doesn't totally disrupt the rest of the game (like spell levels, monsters, every other damn thing you'd have to reconsider) i'd love to hear it. down with dragons, up with pixies. Well, of course, as in any list there are bound to be those with differing opinions. I have to totally disagree here. I have found the original D&D combat system to be horrible - so in its base form you're absolutely right. I do suggest if you haven't picked up the new Combat and Tactics book and/or Skills and Powers for the AD&D 2nd edition rules - take a look at it. They have really spiced up the combat system to make it a lot more fun as well as dangerous. It used to be that a fighter would just walk up to an orc or some other creature and you'd create this "I wack you" and now "you wack me" type of battle which became old fast and incredibly boring until someone rolled a 20 now and then. I've set up a system which I use in all my campaigns of parries and counterstrikes as well as called shots - all of these rules are now available in the Combat and Tactics book. A 1st level fighter who is double specialized in a weapon can deal out some serious damage and likewise an evil fighter of the same level can put a little scare into your gaming party. Whenever I throw an evil party at my normal gaming group of the same level with the same weapon/spell advantages - I see faces cringe because the tables have turned. This is the same for GURPS or HERO's Champions system which are both based on points - this has always provided an excellent challenge for the group and the fighters can square off against opponents of equal strength in a series of parries, called shots, disarms, etc... I first tried this when I ran a Dark Sun campaign a few years ago where we had arena death matches and all the PCs were fighter based. When PCs are going up against monsters - use the same concept - when they're fighting a dragon or a frost salamander - why does the monster just take their normal shots and then expect to get clobbered. Use attacks to slam PCs through doorways or crush them in their talons, pick them up into the air and drop them, breath frost on them when they are checking out that pool to trap them. Even the highest level of PCs would be challenged by a lesser opponent or a group of lesser opponents that do the unexpected. Our Mystara group has been playing for over two years now and the group has just now gotten over the 10th level hump and we started out at 1st. We have never had a boring combat - even fighting a group of beholders - I allowed them to use their shields to parry eye rays (of course a few magical shields were disintegrated in the process - evil DM grin) but everyone had fun and there was always a challenge. Now, in reference, to histories and experience - I have used this system extensively and it works out very well. Instead of just giving players enough experience to hit a certain level - "loan" it to them. Whenever I have a player drop out and a new one come in - I loan that player the amount of experience to put them at the lowest level for the campaign (for survival sake) and tell them they must pay back the back experience before moving up to higher levels. It gives them a sense of accomplishment and keeps it fair to the other players who started off at level 1. And yes, I do require character histories and background even for my level 1 folks starting out. Last comment - I have really enjoyed the Mystara campaign setting and I think that the B and X series modules have been some of the best to come out of TSR. I revisited Mystara when they came out with the audio CD modules and my players and I loved the whole concept - actually dimming the lights and hearing the sounds of the dungeon. Unfortunately, for us, TSR didn't sell a lot of them and cancelled the whole lot and no future plans for Mystara next year. Well, like most DMs I improvised and threw in the new Beholder series and placed it in Karameikos, also the Rod of Seven Parts boxed set, and now we are in the midst of the Dragon Mountain boxed set (all great by the way!) - Dragon Mountain is ideal to the earlier comment made about lesser monsters versus higher level PCs - the set is designed for 10-15th level PCs but the majority of the adventure in the mountain - the party is beset by scheming kobolds who have devised some of the most diabolical traps and ambushes I've ever seen - I can't wait for my high level and somewhat "cocky" adventurers to be pleading for their very lives against these 2 hit point nasties (big evil DM grin)... But looking forward - we have decided since Mystara has hit the chopping block we're going to be starting up an Earthdawn campaign early next year which, for those who haven't seen it, is a pretty good system and well thought out. Although we may run a stint over the summer by placing the new Tomb of Horrors boxed set and placing that within Glantri or Karameikos. -Marc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 06:01:14 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gaming styles yes i have the combat and tactics book and quite like it - it's one reason i am playing ad&d again after long absence. but that's my point ... you have to add rules to patch up the job since D&D as is just has too many problems. i would like to see somebody design a combat system specifically for Mystara that would include all the present info on magic systems, monsters, etc. but make combat a little more balanced, and not just be a complex add-on to the original flawed system. i would do it, but i ain't got the time (or brain cells). as for "loaning" experience, why not just change the damn rules so that all characters start at a higher level than 1st but it takes that much more xp to advance to the next level (since that's all you're doing, in effect)? m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Wed, 17 Dec 1997 mpalombo@erols.com wrote: >>(snip) >>anyway the real problem is just that D&D wasn't designed carefully at the outset. people can worship gygax all they like but there are better game systems around (warhammer is pretty damn good in certain respects), but none are as well developped. if i new gurps i would probably use it for mystara. i tend to just use AD&D cuz everyone knows it. one of these days i'll get frustrated and jump ship to some other system again. all those years of rolemaster were pretty damn unproductive, but they did make for better combat in some ways. if anyone can suggest a solution to the hit point problem that doesn't totally disrupt the rest of the game (like spell levels, monsters, every other damn thing you'd have to reconsider) i'd love to hear it. down with dragons, up with pixies. >Well, of course, as in any list there are bound to be those with differing opinions. I have to totally disagree here. I have found the original D&D combat system to be horrible - so in its base form you're absolutely right. I do suggest if you haven't picked up the new Combat and Tactics book and/or Skills and Powers for the AD&D 2nd edition rules - take a look at it. They have really spiced up the combat system to make it a lot more fun as well as dangerous. It used to be that a fighter would just walk up to an orc or some other creature and you'd create this "I wack you" and now "you wack me" type of battle which became old fast and incredibly boring until someone rolled a 20 now and then. I've set up a system which I use in all my campaigns of parries and counterstrikes as well as called shots - all of these rules are now available in the Combat and Tactics book. A 1st level fighter who is double specialized in a weapon can deal out some serious damage and likewise an evil fighter of the same level can put a little scare into your gaming party. Whenever I throw an evil party at my normal gaming group of the same level with the same weapon/spell advantages - I see faces cringe because the tables have turned. This is the same for GURPS or HERO's Champions system which are both based on points - this has always provided an excellent challenge for the group and the fighters can square off against opponents of equal strength in a series of parries, called shots, disarms, etc... I first tried this when I ran a Dark Sun campaign a few years ago where we had arena death matches and all the PCs were fighter based. When PCs are going up against monsters - use the same concept - when they're fighting a dragon or a frost salamander - why does the monster just take their normal shots and then expect to get clobbered. Use attacks to slam PCs through doorways or crush them in their talons, pick them up into the air and drop them, breath frost on them when they are checking out that pool to trap them. Even the highest level of PCs would be challenged by a lesser opponent or a group of lesser opponents that do the unexpected. Our Mystara group has been playing for over two years now and the group has just now gotten over the 10th level hump and we started out at 1st. We have never had a boring combat - even fighting a group of beholders - I allowed them to use their shields to parry eye rays (of course a few magical shields were disintegrated in the process - evil DM grin) but everyone had fun and there was always a challenge. >Now, in reference, to histories and experience - I have used this system extensively and it works out very well. Instead of just giving players enough experience to hit a certain level - "loan" it to them. >Whenever I have a player drop out and a new one come in - I loan that player the amount of experience to put them at the lowest level for the campaign (for survival sake) and tell them they must pay back the back experience before moving up to higher levels. It gives them a sense of accomplishment and keeps it fair to the other players who started off at level 1. And yes, I do require character histories and background even for my level 1 folks starting out. >Last comment - I have really enjoyed the Mystara campaign setting and I think that the B and X series modules have been some of the best to come out of TSR. I revisited Mystara when they came out with the audio CD modules and my players and I loved the whole concept - actually dimming the lights and hearing the sounds of the dungeon. Unfortunately, for us, TSR didn't sell a lot of them and cancelled the whole lot and no future plans for Mystara next year. Well, like most DMs I improvised and threw in the new Beholder series and placed it in Karameikos, also the Rod of Seven Parts boxed set, and now we are in the midst of the Dragon Mountain boxed set (all great by the way!) - Dragon Mountain is ideal to the earlier comment made about lesser monsters versus higher level PCs - the set is designed for 10-15th level PCs but the majority of the adventure in the mountain - the party is beset by scheming kobolds who have devised some of the most diabolical traps and ambushes I've ever seen - I can't wait for my high level and somewhat "cocky" adventurers to be pleading for their very lives against these 2 hit point nasties (big evil DM grin)... >But looking forward - we have decided since Mystara has hit the chopping block we're going to be starting up an Earthdawn campaign early next year which, for those who haven't seen it, is a pretty good system and well thought out. Although we may run a stint over the summer by placing the new Tomb of Horrors boxed set and placing that within Glantri or Karameikos. >-Marc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:10:40 -0500 From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thoughts on advancement and a question: Chad & Diane Moore wrote: >Which leads me to this question: >Does anyone do anything with character histories? Lots! Even if I have a player who isn't into developing detailed history or who is new to the game or even if they are simply having some difficulty with character concepts, I always build extensive historical connections for characters. I find that having all sorts of connections from the past crop up helps to motivate the characters more. Instead of having a stranger accosted on the street and hoping that the players will have their characters run to the rescue, why not make it a relative or an associate of some sort? That way even if they decide not to get involved, there will be repercussions. Old mentors, superiors in the church or guild, a reknowned hero the character idolizes, even just recurring villains and supporting cast give a depth that seems to really draw my players into the campaign. It seems far richer for comparatively little effort. Ray ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:19:32 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [Mystara] Level Advancement Rate At 21.37 16/12/97 EST, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 97-12-15 20:56:04 EST, brizio@lunet.it writes: >>True, but I don't let my PC achieve high levels in so short a time. >>I'm DMing this group since 1994 (or 1993) IIRC and the higher level ones are 5th level now and I play D&D. >It seems to me that you have gone to the opposite extreme from the "Monty Haulers" -- a level per year of real time seems to be rather slow advancement. Unless you and your players don't get together that often, I would consider that rate to be a bit too slow. But to each his own, I guess. Lately we've not played very much, but that's not the point. IMO we should not consider level advancement per yer of real time, but level advancement per year of Mystaran time. When I started DM this group it was 1001 AC, now they're in Nuwmont 1004 AC and I don't think that 5 levels in 3 years is too slow considering that they're elves. The problem is that I should speed up time advancements. Anyway 1st rule is "Have Fun!" and my players seem to enjoy themselves... :) Bye. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:20:26 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thoughts on advancement and a question: At 22.35 16/12/97 -0500, Chad & Diane Moore wrote: >Which leads me to this question: >Does anyone do anything with character histories? Look at my homepage, there's the journal kept by one of my players. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:25:59 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thoughts on advancement and a question: At 20.59 16/12/97 -0800, Matthew Levy wrote: >Of course, this makes >players perhaps feel like XP gain is not a direct reward for playing a game ... but if this is the logic, then WHY do players need a reward for playing a game? isn't the game itself fun, or do people always need to win something? who knows, just some thoughts. I agree with you. The reward is having fun and keep your PC alive, IMO XP shouldn't be a reward, just a simple way to keep track of the PC improvements. I know people that give XP if the players attend to all game session, or if they get there in time... this doesn't make sense IMO. Moreover the Basic set clearly states that a RPG is not about winning something, there're not winners and losers, just players. Enough rambling. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:52:57 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] High level Campaigns and Alphatia (was: Thyatian and Alphatian Mages) Matthew Levy wrote: <> We already addressed the issue a month or so ago, but it seems it's become a recurring phenomenon much like Day of Dread and the Elves' true history.. we'll never get rid of it, i suppose.. ;) Last time we discussed about Alphatia's 1000 Mages, we ended up saying that probably there aren't 1000 mages of 36th level (even if u consider First generation alphatians, there cannot be so many mages who have lived for over 2,000 years!) but only 100 36th level Mages in Alphatia. So the Council is probably made of 100 Ultimate Mages, 50 Mages of level 30-35 and another 50 Ultimate Clerics, and the rumors about 1000 mages are just tall tales diffused by alphatians to make the other nations tremble in front of Alphatia's power. Probably there were more powerful mages in the past, but now their number has been drastically reduced (also by wars). <> I don't know if you've ever had a powerful Mage in your party or campaign (be him PC or NPC), but i assure you this is not what normally happens. High level mages don't go flying around rampaging and conquering kingdoms for two reasons mainly: 1) they have STYLE, they must behave according to the "stereotype" they want to embody: so you'll have the "scholar wizard", the "reclusive", the "hero", the "ruler", the "evil mastermind" and the "lunatic madman" for example. But Mystara (and Alphatia in this case) is not overpopulated by madmen (and for every madmen there is always a good guy taking care of him, that's the rule) and evil villains (especially wizards) are too intelligent to waste time just "rampagin thru the countryside": they employ far subtler and more rewarding methods to acquire their goals. 2) It is not so easy to go all over the world and conquering others' dominions, you know? Sure, u could kill the rulers, but then u'd have to find a way to control many domains scattered around great wastes: no easy task even for a high level mage, i assure u! All in all, if u play ALL high level wizards as powermongers you haven't really understood the mages' mentalities. Some are megalomaniacs, but many are not, and YOU choose which kind of sorcerer you want in your campaign (and don't complain if u chose the wrong personality). <> Wait, wait. Sure Alphatia was a superpower, but so is and was Thyatis. I've always wandered why a small empire like thyatis could stand against a broader and much more evolute empire like Alphatia. Yet it yielded for over 1000 years! The reasons are multiple and stand on both parts imho: first of all Alphatia's main rulers are mages, and this means they don't cooperate much, especially since they are so many. Also many of them were zzonga-addicted, and this influenced their ruling and spellcasting capacities. Many others didn't want to wage war on the other nations because they already had whatever they wanted and didn't want to risk their welfare just for Alphatia's pride. Finally, they all knew Thyatis could count on great strategists and valent fighters, and if Alphatia had waged an aggressive policy towards Thyatis, the other nations of the Old World would have feared for their independency too, maybe backing up the thyatian empire. Too much risks and no really pressing goals. Obviously on its part Alphatia served as political power to hinder Thyatis' expansionism in the same way: without Alphatia Thyatis would have surely been unstoppable in the Old World, and many of the nations as we know them now wouldn't exist. So Alphatia served its pourpose, and it's being now used in a similar (though much epic) way in the hollow World: the superpower that defends the weaker nations (a good solution IMHO: i've always liked Alphatia! ;)) <> What, what? Well, if a player doesn't like to have a spellcaster (and there are many), then he shouldn't choose Alphatia, obviously. Also, the Alphatians DON'T receive magical help only because they're alphatians (it's like saying the Glantrians receive a magical education because they live in a magocracy and have the great School of Magic: nonsense!) and they DON'T achieve levels quickly: the experience progression tables are the same for all the human spellcasters of Mystara, IIRC!! Personally speaking, i have had only ONE character out of.. say.. 40-45 PCs i've mastered so far that was from Alphatia, and he is A RANGER! 60% of the mages came from Glantri, 20% from Karameikos and the others from Thyatis. As you can see, Alphatia wasn't so attractive after all.. maybe because it was not as well developed as Glantri and didn't offer all those interesting neato extra-magical powers like Secret Crafts and those incredibly powerful courses like "Spellcasting" (go and check in GAZ3 and you'll see what "unbalancing" means!). <> Is your campaign centered on international politics and ruling (à la Birthright)? If not, then i don't see how the fact that Alphatia exists could affect the lives of the PCs (aside from the fact that they might be from Alphatia or playing IN Alphatia). Really, if u like to master low level groups, just do it, but low level groups don't get so easily involved in schemes that feature Superpowers and Supervillains: THAT would be unfair on the DM's part. I've always thought there's this unspoken rule: don't give your players adventures or enemies they cannot cope with. If a party is Expert level, why should u use a Master or Companion adventure with them? Only to humiliate or frustrate them, and that's not what D&D is intended for. So if u like low level campaigns, play them, but don't complain about Alphatia being a superpower, because low level campaigns SHOULD NOT BE CENTERED ON Alphatia's might. <> Just yesterday one of my players was talking with me about the best moments we experienced in our sessions, and guess what? Alphatia's meteor-swarming of Glantri City is still what he remembers with most joy! Why? Because it was great, funny and damn appropriate! It was a mages' war after all, so what did u expect? Hordes of goblins and orcs pillaging villages? "Glantri got what it deserved," to tell it the way my players think, "and only Alphatia could have done it.. Pity it's no more.." (they don't know it's still up in the HW) :) It's high fantasy what we're talking about here, so you cannot tell me Alphatia is unbalancing: Mystara is one of the best developed and most balanced campaign worlds, imo. If you are looking for powerful unbalancing campaigns, you'd better look somewhere else (may i suggest you to visit Realmspace or Athasspace one of these days? Or maybe Sigil and all those "Hotter" Planes?).. [DM pourposefully being polemical] <> Sure, i agree with you: it would be all much easier for us DMs if our PCs didn't grow up in levels and remained always at Expert levels (which are the best ones IMHO). But this isn't realistic nor natural, so to speak. It's like parents who refuse to let their children grow up because they know they'll have trouble once they become more free and independent. Well, but teens DO grow up and reach adulthood, that's nature, and it is the nature of the game that PCs rise in levels and reach exalted status among mortals. It's difficult to handle, but we cannot eliminate it. After all, think about the poor player who strives and fights to bring his character to the olympus of heroes: the reward he's seeking is just another experience level, and u can't deny it to him if he behaved properly. I like to play middle level campaigns, but the fact remains that every DM must sooner or later cope with a High Level campaign, where the ORCS will be afraid of the PCs and SWARMS of dragons will be what could really bother PCs. That is the challenge to us DMs: create a high level campaign where plots still mean something in the adventure and hack'n'slash is still a fearful experience for the characters, not merely a training exercise. So, as u see, a competent master MUST be prepared to deal even with this to prove his value. Also, somebody pointed out that from a certain level of power many of the old classics become useless. Example: once you get Commune, Contact Outer Planes or Lore spells, why would you bother to investigate who stole that artifact or killed that VIP? Use them to get to your villain and slay him with your Power Word or Barrier. Or: which high level Fighter or Mage would go into a den of goblins now that they can face giants and dragons alone? Let the goblins to the low levels would be heroes, or bury them by making their lair collapse onto their heads ("Say, have u still got that Move Earth spell, Felonius?"). Well, my advice is: use those adventures when you still can and invent new challenges for high level heroes. HOWEVER, some of the old themes CAN be used even at high levels. For example, i use frequently investigation adventures with one of my groups who has access to Lore, ESP or Contact Outer Planes spells, but i run the adventure anticipating their moves. The villain knows they're powerful and have those powers, so he'll be wise enough to put on false tracks and leave behind very few clues, often using magic on his part too to foil up their magical powers. And above all, if u as a DM think that the Immortals couldn't care less about the questions of the PCs, simply ignore the rules and don't answer (and threaten the PCs not to disturb them with such stupid questions anymore!). Fight Magic with Magic and you'll see you can still run "mystery" adventures. As for the Dungeon Crawling, that's easier: substitute goblins and orcs with more fearsome opponents and surprise the PCs with unexpected traps or encounters. I suggest u to use the old good "Alien (or The Thing) paranoia": isolated inside a complex (underground or aboveground), without means to escape (maybe there's a special anti magic field that blocks teleporting attempts), with harsh conditions (low on rations and unprepared), facing an unknown enemy; also throw in a possible traitor or possessed PC (just keep wishpering in the players' ears they see the others make strange moves and gestures) and i assure u u'll obtain damn good results. Maybe an old enemy set up a plan to avenge himself, or maybe they were just unlucky and stumbled upon an ancient cursed place: you decide. What i'm saying is: bring up to date and power up your old themes and adventures and you'll be able to run even high level campaigns without using Immortals and fiends.. (although a few ones now and then are just good!) :) <> Lots of room for low level PCs? Yes sure, but the lowest the levels, the lesser the chances they get to interact with those Princes and understand the political web. They'll have their duties, their goblins' lairs and maybe they'll be exploited by the upper nobles as unwitting pawns: nothing that cannot be staged in Alphatia too, or even Thyatis for that matter. I don't really see Glantri this much an advantage for low level characters.. Maybe you get this impression because Glantri has been fleshed out in greater detail, but this depends only on the fact that its size is much smaller than Alphatia and because it has been detailed by none others than Bruce Heard.. <> I personally have staged a few adventures in Alphatia pre-WotI and during WotI, and they were all Companion level adventures. But this doesn't mean there cannot be other low level adventures options. I see Alphatia as another Old World, only not so detailed as the previous one. As Alex as shown you, there are many options for low level players: also look at Alphatia's Adventure section in DotE and you'll see there is room for other adventures, provided you WANT to stage them there. You see, from your posts i got the impression you really DIDN'T like Alphatia at all, and that's why you're biased towards it. Probably you're a supporter of Thyatis or Glantri, and this explains your attitude towards Alphatia that is their natural foe.. ON THE CREATION OF MAGICAL ITEMS: <> Mmhh.. not sure i understood this one. A "low level" wizard cannot craft a magic item: he must be name level (9th) to do it. Also, if he spends more, lessen number of charges, etc. he won't automatically have it: he'll have just more chances to craft that item succesfully. It's the level and the intelligence of the wizard that make the difference here. And moreover, if he succeeds in his crafting, he'll have a much depowered version of the normal magic item in case he had to increase the chances of success (reduce n° of charges or use per day, restriction to uses against certain types of foes, etc. as u suggested). All in all, i don't think low level mages would have an easy time creating magical items.. DM ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #232 ***************************** mystara-digest Thursday, December 18 1997 Volume 02 : Number 233 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:16:28 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: [none] Here's are my answer to the Ierendei Crown representing Darokin, (i.e. Reston, and Lord Staffleheim ECONOMICS (Total: 30 points) 1) What's the exchange rate for 1 gp in silver pieces and electrum pieces? (1) 1 gold Daros = 2 Electrum Half-Daros = 10 Silver Tendrids 2) What's the name of the Thyatian gold piece? (2) The Lucin 3) What's the exchange rate for 1 Glantrian Crown in gold pieces (in Glantri)? (2) 50 Gold Daros 4) Name 1 imported and 1 exported good by Ierendi (6) Import: Monsters Export: Pearls 5) What's the wealthiest nation of the world after 1010 AC? (3) Darokin 6) Name at least two nations of the world that don't impose taxes on its inhabitants. (5) Ierendei and Yavldom Divinarchy 7) What's the Sales Tax? (3) 5% on imports to the nations on Question 6% 8) Name at least one nation of the Old World that doesn't use the gold piece (2) The Atruaghin clans, they use Silver Piece known as Clouds equal to 5 Silver Tendrids 9) Name at least one major feature of the Darokinian economic system (4) The Net worth Tax which happens every five years. 10) How much does a longsword normally cost? (2) 15 gps HISTORY (Total: 30 points) 1) Who was the first Thyatian Emperor? (2) Zonadril I think that's the right spelling 2) Who's the current (AC 1014) Emperor of Thyatis? (1) Eusebius 3) List at least two important events that changed the political scenario in the old world from AC 1009 to AC 1014. (2) The founding of the WDL, and the Death of Emperor Thincol 4) Who is the current (AC 1014) Chancellor of Darokin? (3) Corwyn Mauntea 5) When and why Rockhome broke all the diplomatical relationships with Glantri? (4) At the end of the Fourty Year Wars, when the Dwarves were blamed for a plague that went rampant in glantri. 6) Who is the most prominent figure of the Ylari history and why? (3) Al-Kalim, he united all tribes of the Emirates and orginized themselves into expelling all Imperial foreigner from Ylaraum. 7) When did Ierendi become an independent Kingdom? (5) 600 a.c. 8) What is the Spikes' Assault and when did it take place? (6) 9) What is the oldest nation of the Old World? (2) the Five Shires (since 1300 b.c.) 10) When did the Heldannic Knights take over the Heldann Freeholds? (2) 990 A.C. GEOGRAPHY (Total: 30 points) 1) Name at least three of the Ierendi islands. (2) Honor island, Ierendei island, Elegy Island 2) Which nations border on Ierendi? (3) Darokin, Five Shires, Minrothad, Atruaghin, and Karameikos 3) List at least 6 capitals of the Old World nations (2) Darokin, Shireton, Ierendei, Ylaruam, Dengar, Thyatis city 4) What's the most populated city of the Old World? (1) Thyatis City (500,000 people) 5) What's the name of the most important river of Darokin? (3) The Streel 6) Which countries does the Overland Trade Route cross? (5) counting Trails Slagovich, Sind, Darokin, Atruaghin, Glantri, Broken Lands, Ethengar, Aengmor, five Shires, Karameikos, Thyatis, Ylaraum, Rockhome, Soderfjord, Vestland, and Heldannic Territories. 7) Where is the Great School of Magic (city/nation)? (1) Glantri city, Glantri 8) What's the longest river of the Old World? (4) the Streel, From lake Klintest to the Sea of Dread 9) What's the highest mountain of the Old World and where is it located? (6) World Mountain, Ethengar 10) Name at least three provinces controlled by the Empire of Thyatis (3) Kerendas, Vyalia, and Tel Akbir MAGIC & RELIGION (Total: 30 points) 1) What is the holy book of the Eternal Truth? (4) The Nameh of Ylaraum 2) What is the symbol of the Heldannic Knights' Order? (1) The Black Lion 3) What is the official religion of Ierendi? (3) Protius 4) To which Immortal belongs the "Silver Moon" symbol? (2) 5) Who is the Immortal Patron of Justice and Revenge? (2) vanya 6) Name one clerical and magic-user's spell of levels 1 and 2. (2) Light/detect trap detect magic/Detect Invisibility 7) List all the powers of a (OD&D) Staff of Wizardry. (6) 8) What are the requirements a Magic-user must satisfy to cast a Wish spell? (5) 9) How many "Cure" clerical spells do exist? (1) 6 10) How is the Multiverse divided according to the recent Theories on the Planes of Existence? (4) the multiverse in divided into various planes, and Spheres (I.e. matter, And Energy) MISCELLANEA (Total: 30 points) 1) How many calendars are diffused throughout the Old World by AC 1014? (3) 7 2) What are the main festivals and holidays of Ierendi? (4) the rebirth, Freedom day and the Crown Tourney, and The Day of Rights 3) How many of the current Sheriffs of the Five Shires are women? (3) 3, Sildil, Maeregh and Delune. 4) Who is Oran Meditor? (1) the leader of the Minrothad Guilds 5) What are the true names of the so called "Northern Reaches"? (2) Ostland, Vestland, and The Soderflord jarldoms 6) Name at least two nations where slavery is legal. (3) Thyatis, and Jaibul 7) Name one country where the ruler of the nation is also the head of the Church and of the army? (2) Hule 8) List all of the current (AC 1014) Principalities of Glantri. (5) Erewan, Nouvelle Averiogne, Morlay, Aalban, Belcadiz, Boldavia 9) When does the so called Day of Dread occurs? (1) New Years Eve, Until 1018 A.C. when Day of Dread becomes the Week Without Magic again. 10) What is Chi and where is it located? (6) It is inner Energy. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:12:17 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Tournament Questions (Quiz N=B02 )?= ECONOMICS (Total: 30 points) 1) What's the exchange rate for 1 gp in silver pieces and electrum pieces? (1) 1 gp = 2 ep = 10 sp 2) What's the name of the Thyatian gold piece? (2) Lucin 3) What's the exchange rate for 1 Glantrian Crown in gold pieces (in Glantri)? (2) 50 gp 4) Name 1 imported and 1 exported good by Ierendi (6) meat, fish 5) What's the wealthiest nation of the world after 1010 AC? (3) Alphatia 6) Name at least two nations of the world that don't impose taxes on its inhabitants. (5) Ethengar and Northern Reaches 7) What's the Sales Tax? (3) A tax paid on the value of an item at the time of sale. 8) Name at least one nation of the Old World that doesn't use the gold piece (2) Atruaghin 9) Name at least one major feature of the Darokinian economic system (4) Merchant guild. 10) How much does a longsword normally cost? (2) 10 gp HISTORY (Total: 30 points) 1) Who was the first Thyatian Emperor? (2) Zendrolion Tatriokanitas. 2) Who's the current (AC 1014) Emperor of Thyatis? (1) Eusebius Torion 3) List at least two important events that changed the political scenario in the old world from AC 1009 to AC 1014. (2) The fall of Alphatia and the Thothian counterattack on the Isle of Dawn. 4) Who is the current (AC 1014) Chancellor of Darokin? (3) Corwyn Mauntea. 5) When and why Rockhome broke all the diplomatical relationships with Glantri? (4) They never had such relationships. 6) Who is the most prominent figure of the Ylari history and why? (3) Suleiman Al-Kalim. He united the Ylari and drove Thyatis and Alphatia out. 7) When did Ierendi become an independent Kingdom? (5) AC 602. 8) What is the Spikes' Assault and when did it take place? (6) A Alphatian attack on Thyatis around AC 960. 9) What is the oldest nation of the Old World? (2) Alphatia 10) When did the Heldannic Knights take over the Heldann Freeholds? (2) AC 950. GEOGRAPHY (Total: 30 points) 1) Name at least three of the Ierendi islands. (2) Safari island, Ierende island and Fletcher island. 2) Which nations border on Ierendi? (3) Minrothad, Five Shires, Karameikos and Honor Island. 3) List at least 6 capitals of the Old World nations (2) Mirros, Darokin, Dengar, Jerendi, Minrothad, Thyatis. 4) What's the most populated city of the Old World? (1) Thyatis 5) What's the name of the most important river of Darokin? (3) Streel 6) Which countries does the Overland Trade Route cross? (5) Ettengar, Darokin, Ylaruam, Rockhome. 7) Where is the Great School of Magic (city/nation)? (1) Glantri 8) What's the longest river of the Old World? (4) Don't know, but it's probably not the Streel. 9) What's the highest mountain of the Old World and where is it located? (6) Mt. de Glace in Glantri. 10) Name at least three provinces controlled by the Empire of Thyatis (3) Redstone, West Portage and Furmenglaive. MAGIC & RELIGION (Total: 30 points) 1) What is the holy book of the Eternal Truth? (4) A book, written by Al-Kalim (by the beard of the prophet). 2) What is the symbol of the Heldannic Knights' Order? (1) An upstanding lion. 3) What is the official religion of Ierendi? (3) People's Temple. 4) To which Immortal belongs the "Silver Moon" symbol? (2) Asterius. 5) Who is the Immortal Patron of Justice and Revenge? (2) Tarastia 6) Name one clerical and magic-user's spell of levels 1 and 2. (2) Cure Light Wounds, Bless; Magical Missile, Levitate. 7) List all the powers of a (OD&D) Staff of Wizardry. (6) Staff +1, Invisibility, Hole-in-the-wall, Net, Conjure Elemental, Lightning, Fireball, Icestorm/-wall, Permanent Light, Telekinesis, Paralyse, Tornado and Final Blow. 8) What are the requirements a Magic-user must satisfy to cast a Wish spell? (5) INT 18 and level 33, accordng to master set rules. 9) How many "Cure" clerical spells do exist? (1) Cure light/heavy/serious wounds, Cureall, cure blindness, cure disease ==> 6 ! 10) How is the Multiverse divided according to the recent Theories on the Planes of Existence? (4) Prime Plane, surrounded by Ethereal Plane, 4 Elemental Planes and Astral Plane. After that plane come the Outer Planes. MISCELLANEA (Total: 30 points) 1) How many calendars are diffused throughout the Old World by AC 1014? (3) At least ten ! 2) What are the main festivals and holidays of Ierendi? (4) Rebirth, Freedom Day and Crown Tourney, Celebration of the Sea, Days of Right, 3) How many of the current Sheriffs of the Five Shires are women? (3) 3 4) Who is Oran Meditor? (1) Ruling Guildmaster of Minrothad. 5) What are the true names of the so called "Northern Reaches"? (2) Vestland, Ostland and the Soderfjord Jarldoms. 6) Name at least two nations where slavery is legal. (3) Thyatis and Alphatia, the big and civilized empires. 7) Name one country where the ruler of the nation is also the head of the Church and of the army? (2) Heldann. 8) List all of the current (AC 1014) Principalities of Glantri. (5) Fenswick, Klantyre, Morlay-Malinbois, Belcadiz, Erewan, Nouvelle Averoigne, Boldavia, Sablestone, Krondahar, Bramyra, New Kolland, Aalban, Bergdhoven, 9) When does the so called Day of Dread occurs? (1) Kaldmont 28. 10) What is Chi and where is it located? (6) >> A village on Ochalea. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:12:20 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil << For example Pearl, the Ruler of All Chaotic Dragons are an immortal of the Sphere of Matter and she is undoubtedly evil. On the other hand Nyx of the Sphere of Entropy could *almost* be classified as good, as she only wishes for the living races to mature into undeadness! >> Are you really sure with Pearl? I even think that good and evil cannot be applied to mortal dragons! << Wild Shot: A Druid in a heavily industralized area? (Neutral, of course...) Hm, interesting. BTW, IMO the D&D rules don't forbid a druid from being good or evil, at least he is neither lawful nor chaotic. <> Not, please not this lawful stupid paladin again!! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:12:12 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil << Alot of this talk reminds me of a religious discussion a friend and I had once. Since I agree that entrophy does not represent evil neccessarily, it does represent the end of all things which you could say is evil's eventual goal. But the only way for us to understand these absolutes is with the presense of the other. Absolute good has no concievable attributes without evil for contrast and the same for evil. In the end, both my friend and I decided that one couldn't exist without the other (at least for our minds). So, for entrophy to *win* there has to be the total destruction of all spheres as one will always be a contrast to it and thus keep it from becoming an absolute. For entrophy to be wiped out would be impossible since anything that ceases would bring about the formation of entrophy again. I purpose that the spheres of energy and entrophy are the only two spheres that are naturally occuring and each bring about the other's creation (with possibly, Matter also being naturally occuring). Since the writers chose to have all evil Immortals be entrophic is unfortunate since I could imagine an evil Time Immortal or Thought (at least I'm not aware of any). In fact, that is something I've been playing around with in my head since I see all the spheres vying for domination and not necessarily working together opposing entrophy only. That being said, can anyone imagine a character who is of non-evil alignment but sees entrophy as the natural order and seeks to help that order's goal be acheived (and would you consider him lawful or chaotic)? Or a character that sees good as the nature of things and seeks to stop entrophy? Or, one more, one that sees neutrality between the two sides as the natural order of the world? I would imagine most would see things from neutrality's point of view (I do) but the existence of all is possible in theory. Even if you use the AD&D rules for alignment, I would say that the Immortals are above the mortal perceptions of good and evil. They still are classified by lawful, neutral and chaotic. This explanes why a *good* Immortal does *evil* and also by allowing a cleric of a Immortal to not be allowed the use of spells that violate the lawful/neutral/chaotic ethics while the good/neutral/evil aspects are only a mortal religious taboos set down by those of the faith in that country. Much like Christianity was used against the native population of the United States but that same use would not have been tolerated at home. >> I remind all who have forgotten the "Tall tales of the wee folk" (or never read them), that eons ago the matter was vice versa. The mostly evil immortals of the spheres of matter, energy, time and thought opposed each other and the immortals from the sphere of life, the good ones. But finally the sphere of life succeded and most evil immortals were slain or exiled. After this, the evil immortals concentrated in a new sphere, the sphere of entropy, and the other split in four spheres, energy, matter, time an thought. Some not so evil immortals who didn't fought in the great war, were stripped of their power and are now the fairies. This is the reason why they are immortal. They are waiting for a new turn of the great cycle. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:50:55 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thoughts on advancement and a question: >Which leads me to this question: >Does anyone do anything with character histories? I usually have the player come up with a history of thier character, so that if it comes up in gameplay and someone asks "who is your father?" or "Do you have any siblings?" the character can answer as swiftly as if talking of thier own family. I also have a one-on-one gameing session with player and DM, for a prelude. Which gets the character to play out thier history and be more at tune with the ideas they came up with. It also helps the DM see how the charecter is being roleplayed, and now knows what to expect. Finally, it helps show how the charecter met up with the rest of the party, and perhaps gives a reason as to why he's starting out at level 5 instead of level 1. - -Inconu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:00:55 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Matthew Levy wrote: >well, if Alphatians really do consider themselves a separate and superior race, that is interesting. Do you have a source for this? I thought Alphatians were pretty liberal in that respect, especially compared to Thyatins. Can't even monster spellcasters become aristocrats in Alphatia? Actually, it's supposed to be the opposite. The Alphatians are very racist and purists (cf. the "True" Alphatians). The nation of Haven was founded by Aasla shortly after landfall precisely because Aasla disagreed with the racial supremacy view of the other Alphatians, and wanted a "Haven" from such views. Also, look to how the Alphatians treated the Yanifey peoples (driving them off the continent), and the Jennites. Or even, as we've surmised here on the list, the original Ochaelean race. On the other hand, the Thyatians are presented (historically) as being sort of "greedy grabbers" (as my brother would say). They absorb all sorts of other races and cultures into their cultural makeup, taking the best (and in many cases- ie, Hattians- the worst) aspects of their character, in order to develop a stronger and broader cultural base. This is one of the reasons they have proven so successful (particularly for such a tiny geographical area); they assimilate other cultures, whereas the Alphatians (for the most part; see below) dominate them outright. I guess that makes the Thyatians the Borg of Mystara. However, this historical trend does seem to be changing somewhat within recent centuries. As you point out, the Alphatians, ever seeking to expand their interests, have embraced the Shiye elves, invited the dwarves/halflings/gnomes, and provided room for monsters... although to a limited extent. Note that most of these territories are relatively small (geographically and/or politically) and have very few formal ties to the rest of the Empire. The dwarvish types of Stoutfellow have different laws from the mainstream Kingdoms; the Shiye-Lawr are notoriously xenophobic and closed off; and the monsters of Limn are consigned to one tiny coastal kingdom. (Note: the recent freeing of Jennites on Esterhold is another indication of this trend. Though one wonders if it would have happened were the main continent of Alphatia still present on the outer world, as opposed to the more lenient/tolerant nations of Alphatia that still exist there.) One other note about the Alphatians, there is the case of their being assimilated by the Cypri civilization back on their homeworld that seems somewhat counter to these historical views, but I would rather note that it is more of the same. The Cypri were culturally dominated by the Alphatians; the fact that their skin tone and genetic makeup are predominant in the Empire today has more to do with their numerical superiority (as relates to breeding) than any 'assimilation' going on. I'd say, anyway. And I might even point to that event (the decline of "true" Alphatians as a result of their interaction with the Cypri) as being a precursor to practices undertaken by the Alphatians upon Landfall in regards to otherraces (the Yanifey, Jennites, Ochaleans). Rather than see their genetic makeup further diminished by inbreeding with these other races, they turned to near-genocidal policies in regards to these other peoples. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:16:44 -0500 From: Philippe Lazzaroni Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thoughts on advancement and a question: >Chad & Diane Moore wrote: >Which leads me to this question: >Does anyone do anything with character histories? Are you kidding? My campaign is based almost entirely on characters background, either predefined or acquired within precedent quests... I like to use histories to enrich the whole campaign, by putting characters together in cooperation or in opposition (such as introducing a playing character acting as double agent from an opposing guild...). We started to play in Mystara in 1992, and all the adventures we've played in since are linked together as a whole. We began campaigning in AC 1001 all the way through WotI and far more... The players are addicted to Mystara mostly because of this use of background material, in which they feel personnaly involved (by contributing to build it) Philippe Lazzaroni philippe@dimpact.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:15:21 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Character histories << > Which leads me to this question: >Does anyone do anything with character histories? >> I have an Alphatian nobleman. His complete group was killed, and most often it's difficult to get such a character into a new group. I'm playing him now as an solo character. He is from Ambur and always liked the sea and so he decided to hire in the navy. (BTW, his father has a seat in the Great Concil, so things can be worked out quickly.) He made an officers training and got the command over an old, small sailing ship. Right now, he is travelling through the Hollow World in search for the right place for a future naval base. Since the start of his miltary career he keeps an log book (like Prince Haldemar). An like Prince Haldemar he had some quarrels with the Heldannic Knights. (But til now he had the better end :-) ). Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:35:52 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Priest spheres for AD&D2nd Ed. On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Matthew Levy wrote: >if this is possible, doesn't it kind of trouble the idea of clerical magic somewhat? does this mean that priestly magic ISN'T really jsut given by immortals? I've sort of figured this must be the case, myself. Figure that Immortals make use of both kinds of magic, and that Druids get their magic from "nature" itself, not an Immortal (particularly Karimari druids and clerics). Add to that that, in at least one D&D supplement (HWA1: Nighthowl), clerics can use up to 2nd level spells without the benefit of their Immortals, purely from their own beliefs. What this indicates to me is that clerical magic is just another form of 'natural' magic from that used by wizards. While it may seem as if the Immortals grant the clerics their spells, I view it as more along the lines of them indicating the proper means by which to actually make use of the spell. In game terms, a 'generic' cleric is someone who is able to naturally (purely through his own abilities) able to manipulate the magical weave to produce clerical magic. A 'specialty' cleric, on the other hand, one who is dedicated to a particular Immortal (or particular set of Immortals) is one who is shown by his patrons how to manipulate the magical weave in such a manner. Such 'specialty' clerics tend to be more numerous than 'generic' clerics, perhaps indicating a general lack of natural ability on the behalf of humans (or perhaps a conspiracy by the Immortals? If you're really paranoid...) >perhaps one of our great mystara historians could write something about how precisely the various crafts of magic have evolved in the centuries since the Entities, Ka, the Carnifex, the rise of the Serpentines, Thonia, Blackmoor, the crash of the Beagle, Rafiel, the Great Rain of Fire, the Axial Shift, the creation of the Nucleus, the rise of Taymora, Nithia, the arrival of the Alphatians, Glantri and the radiance and Etienne, WotI, the destruction of Alphatia, etc. ... obviously magic itself is evolving as is the nature of immortality itself (which is conceptually so central to Mystara) ... It has been apparent to me for some time now that magic as seen on Mystara (and likely elsewhere in the multiverse) is related in no small way to radiation and natural energies. Look at it this way: 1) Glantrian wizards are able to draw energy from an altered nuclear reactor (the Radiance) 2) Said Radiance can be utilized to attain Immortality 3) Radiation/Radioactive energy in general can be used to attain Immortality (Rafiel) 4) Kagyar altered the dwarvish race to be able to withstand the radiations that wiped out Blackmoor; a notable side effect of this procedure enables them to be more resistant to magical effects. There are actually a few more occurrences of this phenomenon that escape me at the moment. At any rate, I'd say that magical energy, then, is just normal energy being somehow manipulated. (As a side note, I hypothesize that increasing technology, particularly energy manipulating tech (lasers, etc) won't have an initial dramatic effect on the nature of 'magic' on Mystara; it would simply serve to balance the scales between those who can use 'magic' without tech and those who need the tech to do so. Eventually, as there are a larger number of tech users, and they are easier to use than learn magic, tech will overpower magic and the number of natural users will diminish considerably, perhaps totally. Sort of like most innovations in technology- the crossbow eventually replaced the long bow, simply because it was easier to use. Just an observation, here.) These are just some thoughts I've tinkered with, though I've yet to fully expand upon them... - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 1997 14:54:26 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: - High level Campaigns and Alphatia (was: Thyatian and Alphatian Mages) (LONG) >>>>>"M" == Matthew Levy writes: M> absolutely wrong. living in a society driven by politics makes M> even the lowest people in the system totally aware of the workings M> of their position within it So US society isn't driven by politics? By what, then? - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Bus error -- driver executed. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:55:42 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V2 #232 Is it just me, or is this the FOURTH Issue #1 in a row? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:46:55 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Priest spheres for AD&D2nd Ed. On Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:35:52 -0700 (MST) "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" writes: >On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Matthew Levy wrote: >>if this is possible, doesn't it kind of trouble the idea of clerical mmagic >>somewhat? does this mean that priestly magic ISN'T really jsut ggiven by >>immortals? >I've sort of figured this must be the case, myself. Figure that Immortals >make use of both kinds of magic, and that Druids get their magic from "nature" itself, not an Immortal (particularly Karimari druids and clerics). Add to that that, in at least one D&D supplement (HWA1: Nighthowl), clerics can use up to 2nd level spells without the benefit of >their Immortals, purely from their own beliefs. >What this indicates to me is that clerical magic is just another form of >'natural' magic from that used by wizards. While it may seem as if the >Immortals grant the clerics their spells, I view it as more along the lines of them indicating the proper means by which to actually make use >of the spell. In game terms, a 'generic' cleric is someone who is able to >naturally (purely through his own abilities) able to manipulate the magical weave to produce clerical magic. A 'specialty' cleric, on the other hand, one who is dedicated to a particular Immortal (or particular >set of Immortals) is one who is shown by his patrons how to manipulate >the magical weave in such a manner. Such 'specialty' clerics tend to be >more numerous than 'generic' clerics, perhaps indicating a general lack >of natural ability on the behalf of humans (or perhaps a conspiracy by >the Immortals? If you're really paranoid...) >>perhaps one of our great mystara historians could write something aabout >>how precisely the various crafts of magic have evolved in the ccenturies >>since the Entities, Ka, the Carnifex, the rise of the Serpentines, TThonia, >>Blackmoor, the crash of the Beagle, Rafiel, the Great Rain of Fire, tthe >>Axial Shift, the creation of the Nucleus, the rise of Taymora, NNithia, the >>arrival of the Alphatians, Glantri and the radiance and Etienne, WWotI, the >>destruction of Alphatia, etc. ... obviously magic itself is evolving aas is >>the nature of immortality itself (which is conceptually so central tto >>Mystara) ... >It has been apparent to me for some time now that magic as seen on Mystara (and likely elsewhere in the multiverse) is related in no small >way to radiation and natural energies. Look at it this way: >1) Glantrian wizards are able to draw energy from an altered nuclear reactor (the Radiance) >2) Said Radiance can be utilized to attain Immortality 3) Radiation/Radioactive energy in general can be used to attain Immortality (Rafiel) >4) Kagyar altered the dwarvish race to be able to withstand the radiations that wiped out Blackmoor; a notable side effect of this procedure enables them to be more resistant to magical effects. >There are actually a few more occurrences of this phenomenon that escape >me at the moment. At any rate, I'd say that magical energy, then, is just >normal energy being somehow manipulated. >(As a side note, I hypothesize that increasing technology, particularly >energy manipulating tech (lasers, etc) won't have an initial dramatic effect on the nature of 'magic' on Mystara; it would simply serve to balance the scales between those who can use 'magic' without tech and those who need the tech to do so. Eventually, as there are a larger number of tech users, and they are easier to use than learn magic, tech >will overpower magic and the number of natural users will diminish considerably, perhaps totally. Sort of like most innovations in technology- the crossbow eventually replaced the long bow, simply because >it was easier to use. Just an observation, here.) >These are just some thoughts I've tinkered with, though I've yet to fully >expand upon them... Here's my own take on the whole Raidiance/magic draining topic: NOTE: The only sources used for this are Gaz13 and WotI (I don't have Gaz3) I personaly think that the very nature of radiation drains magic.The Nucleus of the Spheres continually drained magic from Mystara. When the Radience was actually used, it drained even more magic. An important repricussion of this is that Rafiel's reactor WILL drain magic from Mystara. The soul crystals do not accelerate the magic drain because they simply soak up the normal radiation. One question I had after reading WotI was: "Do the Immortals know about the Nucleus now draining Entropy?" My answer is no. Why? Because Rafiel's reactor was up and running shortly after the finale of Wrath and began draining magic. All the Immortals, including Rafiel, attribute the magic drain to the Nucleus. This means that the Great War did not solve anything, and perhaps a second war is in the making. Any comments? >------------------------ >Cthuludrew, the Great Old One >(aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." >URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:28:55 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Priest spheres for AD&D2nd Ed. At 16.46 17/12/97 -0600, Aaron E Nowack wrote: HHere's my own take on the whole Raidiance/magic draining topic: >NOTE: The only sources used for this are Gaz13 and WotI (I don't have Gaz3) >I personaly think that the very nature of radiation drains magic.The Nucleus of the Spheres continually drained magic from Mystara. When the Radience was actually used, it drained even more magic. An important repricussion of this is that Rafiel's reactor WILL drain magic from Mystara. The soul crystals do not accelerate the magic drain because they simply soak up the normal radiation. One question I had after reading WotI was: "Do the Immortals know about the Nucleus now draining Entropy?" My answer is no. Why? Because Rafiel's reactor was up and running shortly after the finale of Wrath and began draining magic. All the Immortals, including Rafiel, attribute the magic drain to the Nucleus. This means that the Great War did not solve anything, and perhaps a second war is in the making. >Any comments? I didn't follow this thread closely, but then I read about Rafiel, so I had to step in :) I think the Immortals know that the Nucleus is now draining from Entropy, moreover I don't think the shamans have yet been able to complete Rafiel's nucleus. GAZ 13 gave me the impression that they need much more time to complete it than just 10 years. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:00:39 -0500 From: dcmoore@worldlynx.net (Chad & Diane Moore) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Level Advancement Rate >Anyway 1st rule is "Have Fun!" and my players seem to enjoy themselves... :) Bye. That's the important part. Chad & Diane Moore dcmoore@worldlynx.net http://www.xanodria.com 1-800-XPI-GAME ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:00:29 -0500 From: dcmoore@worldlynx.net (Chad & Diane Moore) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Character histories >I do! > >One of my characters kept a journal, and several people in one of my campaigns keep a journal. >http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/campaign/alvy.html http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/campaign/cu.html (the latter has restarted, and has been recently updated). Thank you, I'm going to check those out. Chad Chad & Diane Moore dcmoore@worldlynx.net http://www.xanodria.com 1-800-XPI-GAME ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:00:36 -0500 From: dcmoore@worldlynx.net (Chad & Diane Moore) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thoughts on advancement and a question: >I agree with you. >The reward is having fun and keep your PC alive, IMO XP shouldn't be a reward, just a simple way to keep track of the PC improvements. I know people that give XP if the players attend to all game session, or if they get there in time... this doesn't make sense IMO. I am happy to say that I've never done that--though I've had GM's who had. I think I may have been misconstrued (sp?) a little bit. When I said reward I didn't mean to give people a picture of holding out XP like a Scooby Snack. I've PC'ed in campaign where treasure and XP were so scant it was near impossible for any advancement and we quickly lost interest...but that prob. also had a lot to do with the lack of storyline. Go figure. Chad & Diane Moore dcmoore@worldlynx.net http://www.xanodria.com 1-800-XPI-GAME ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 21:41:41 -0600 From: "Terry" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: - High level Campaigns and Alphatia (was: Thyatian and Alphatian Mages) (LONG) >From: Alan Shutko >To: mystara-l@lists.io.com >Subject: [Mystara] Re: - High level Campaigns and Alphatia (was: Thyatian and Alphatian Mages) (LONG) >Date: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 2:54 PM >>>>>>"M" == Matthew Levy writes: >M> absolutely wrong. living in a society driven by politics makes M> even the lowest people in the system totally aware of the workings M> of their position within it >So US society isn't driven by politics? By what, then? By the attractions of the 7 deadly sins ;-) - --Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:24:39 EST From: Mystcblade Subject: [Mystara] Secret Crafts, Radiance, Imortals I a few questions. 1st I know that, in the Wrath of the Imortals: Imortals Fury adventure, the Nucleaus of spheres was changed to drain Entropy's energy instead of The sphere of Energy's Energy (didn't come out well but you know what I mean) yet, according to the Glantri Adnd box set, it still drains away magic from the world . . .why is that? 2nd are the side effects (Cripeled body parts) of the radiance because of the entropic energy (Unlikely) it uses as feul, some form of Radiation poisoning or just because of pure magic held in mere mortal's frame (Obviously this is more of a debate except for the entropic one wich "Almost" could be ruled out since Mcbarnet or whatever his name turned lich before WOTI but it could just of been failed attempt at beccoming immortal through radiance.). 3RD does anyone know where I can get rules for Radiance useing mages in ODnD what about secret crafts (Probably in the Glantri thing for ODnd but want to make sure). 4TH How do you convert imortals into ADnD (or should you bother) the only real problem is that there stats are in DnD terms and go up to 100 wich inadvertently causes them to be more powerful then other campaigns Avatars if the Imortal is in Manfestation form. wixh is fine with me I guess if a pcomes up I'll just dieless role-play it (I think the imortal passed his Systems Shock!) I Know Its along letter but thats what we want so the final part is here its more a debate topic then a Question And excuse the Rambling the is spur of the moment so it may jump from topic to topic a bit 5TH In Your (as in everyone reading the post) opion is Mystara better in ODnD or ADnD personanly I hate how much they've weakened magic users maybe its just how the statistics look compared to the olden day where several spells slots were aplenty but on the other hand ADnD spells were more varied and in depth in description and you got your first 9nth level spell sooner as well as (with the latest rules) True Dweomers but the average break level is 10 instead of 20 hit die of damage also powers shifted quite hight in favor in the fighter (sure they lots mastery) but now have a new mastery sytem in combat in tatics wich in its self causes more power for the fighter and the get 10 hit die Clerics get spells at 1st level pluss bonus spells and Thiefs get more Hit Die Demihumans mix turn out the Elf ethier gives up magic or abides by its restriction ('cept elven chain) Drawfs same maybe better Halflings I'd say better but debatable.no mystic Druid loses his big sales pitch (uniques spells) so is about the same counting other abilities but debatable anyhow thats my view is it just me or the magic users take the most beating in the version rewrites. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #233 ***************************** mystara-digest Friday, December 19 1997 Volume 02 : Number 234 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 03:16:50 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Entropy vs Evil Geez, I hate when I do that. Everytime I go to look up something that I'm trying to get across, I pass over the PC series. Thanks for the reminder and I'll go brush up ;) - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:02:37 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [Mystara] High level Campaigns Hi folks, back again and eager to communicate. DM and Matthew Levy wrote: >Wait, wait. Sure Alphatia was a superpower, but so is and was Thyatis. I've always wandered why a small empire like thyatis could stand against a broader and much more evolute empire like Alphatia. Yet it yielded for over 1000 years! The reasons are multiple and stand on both parts imho: first of all Alphatia's main rulers are mages, and this means they don't cooperate much, especially since they are so many. ... >So Alphatia served its pourpose, and it's being now used in a similar (though much epic) way in the hollow World: the superpower that defends the weaker nations (a good solution IMHO: i've always liked Alphatia! ;)) ... >As you can see, Alphatia wasn't so attractive after all.. maybe because it was not as well developed as Glantri and didn't offer all those interesting neato extra-magical powers like Secret Crafts and those incredibly powerful courses like "Spellcasting" (go and check in GAZ3 and you'll see what "unbalancing" means!). IMHO the point is that Alphatia is kind of an isolated kingdom. It is apart from the "Mainlands" and any involvement in "Mainland"-problems isnŽt that easy for any master. Also the stereotype "wanderng around and saving the world"-hero scheme seems kind of boring to an experienced character. Therefore a Mainland-homebased character could be involved in defending his home perhaps even his house, his wealth, his children, ... *using his as his/her* This is much more of a challange and they couldnŽt rely on a power like Alphatia. As you said, nobody apart of Thyatis would even dare to think of an invasion into Alphatia. Being an "Underdog" was always the more interesting part in roleplaying. >... >It's high fantasy what we're talking about here, so you cannot tell me Alphatia is unbalancing: Mystara is one of the best developed and most balanced campaign worlds, imo. If you are looking for powerful unbalancing campaigns, you'd better look somewhere else (may i suggest you to visit Realmspace or Athasspace one of these days? Or maybe Sigil and all those "Hotter" Planes?).. >[DM pourposefully being polemical] I can only agree!! ;-))) >... ><... >I like to play middle level campaigns, but the fact remains that every DM must sooner or later cope with a High Level campaign, where the ORCS will be afraid of the PCs and SWARMS of dragons will be what could really bother PCs. I think this is only up to the DM. I never "drop in" a dragon to add some challenge. My players perhaps experienced perhaps two encounters with a dragon n their lives and only partially survived them. They are all name-level or near-name-level but they speak in awe and low voice if it comes to dragons. Another thing are UNDEAD. Even a hero of xx-Level gets scary if he has to face the chance of losing his hard-earned-XP. * In my campaigns there NORMALLY only exist scrolls with Restoration if they even exist at all. Or it is a special donation given my a favoured immortal.* >... >ON THE CREATION OF MAGICAL ITEMS: ><> IŽve never experienced a campaign with my players in which a magical item made the tip to move the scales and "win" the adventure. Personally I keep those "hordes of magical items" suggested in the modules low and try to find out what a PC REALLY wants. He gets it and because of his wanting it he normally rarely uses it. OK, my players are no "OK, give me that +5 holy avenger sword that kills every evil one within 100 feet"-Types of players. * My education works quite well * GOING FARTHER: We do have an agreement. They can have these items if they really want to, but if THEY can use it, the ENEMY can use it as well. This is a good example that we both stay away from poisonous blades!! *There is no justice in loosing a character due to ONE missed roll.* Another thing is the plot in adventures. Just recall an article in Dragon about 0-Lvl Menaces. NPC in politics or high-stations intriguing against the PC. Think of an accusation against the PC and the judge wants the PC in jail! Further on what about a region with very few mages. For example IMC the mage has really big problems in dealing with his neighbours. They are all mid-levels and he is one of the few HL-Mage around. They always suspect some "Evil" plot of that damn wizard becauese he is more powerful than they are. So he almost always has to prove that he has no harmful intentions if he wants to talk to them. Perhaps it is like being a "Film-Mobster-Boss". Everybody fears his anger but everybody wants his down. As Dalmonte said there is no deadlier game than politics. ThatŽs the point why mid- to high-level characters are my favorate. One last thing is the attitude of the players towards RPG. I think it is a natural way to first gain levels, get powerful and the like but after some time (*I think of the PLAYER gaining experience, not the character!!!*) the players want to "really play" their characters out and do something really great. Something everybody will remember and tell of in cold winter nights. Last week my wizard-player told me he isnŽt that interested in gaining more XP but he wants to get some time and money to save the families in HIS little isle. He also kept grinning if he thought of another player character accepting the station as Thieves-Guild leader in our council because now he has to expect several attacks and the like as everybody says he is responsible for all the deeds done by thieves. Get the point? I told my players that I think "fly" can be far too powerful and therefore it is kind of "non-existing". Another example is "know alignment" or several types of illusions. These are things that can easily break the balance of gaming and I donŽt want to "break the rules" and say the NPC made his SavingThrow to keep the adventure "on track". Also the players could heavily rely on a single Die-roll and this could spoil a good plan. Things like "but I thought that goblin would be scared of my Dragon-Illusion" would be common. I prefer the "real RPG". We discussed that matter and agreed on "not using". Imagine the group in the lair of the "evil" enemy and suddenly the cleric shows up and scans the alignment of the PCs and he can sense some "good" aligmnent. Normally nobody would survive this massacre. Puh, lot of stuff, Til then, Wizzard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:26:44 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Level advancement & PC history Chad Moore wrote: >I just wanted to add that while giving levels up too quickly is going to spoil >adventurers, you don't want to withold advancement too much. If there isn't >enough rewards people lose interest, if there's too much your players begin to >walk all over you. It's taken me about 10 yrs to get to the midpoint of where >I am now. You see, i think Matthew and also Fabrizio and of course you are all right. The problem is that we don't seem to understand the there isn't only "One Stereotype of Player", but more than one. What i'm getting at is that for some players (and DMs) the reward comes only from actually PLAYING D&D and roleplaying their characters, feeling themselves acting really in that scenario designed by the Master (kudos to the Master who inspires such players and to the players to are able to roleplay so intensively). For those players, even gaining 1 level per real year means nothing as long as they have fun with the game. This is probably the kind of people Matthew was referring to. I personally have never met a player who didn't want to rise in levels, however.. And then there are those players who ALSO love their characters like sons or like themselves and want to see them growing up. For them having fun is playing (and roleplaying) adventures knowing that their experience will improve their character, both from the psychological and physical point of view. OF all the people i've Dmed so far, nobody didn't want to advance in levels with their PC: even the best Role Players would have felt betrayed if i didn't give them what they earned with their (role)playing efforts. So while i may theorically picture the existence of those players who are just content with their level and don't wanna grow, i have never met one and frankly i don't think it's fair on the DM's part to postpone too much the advancement of his PCs. Don't get me wrong: as long as they like their status quo it's ok, but i don't think they'd want to remain at the same level for more than 1-2 REAL months, especially at low levels.. it's unnatural.. It also depends on how many times a week u play, i know, but i tend to see level advancement as something which actually DRIVES the players to give the best of themselves: it's their ultimate prize! My last opinion is: separate Real Time and Game Time, as also Fabrizio said! 10 levels in 10 years (in real time) would drive me crazy! 10 levels in 10 years (in game time) could be as much frustrating if you let 10 game years pass in more than 3 years in real time! Especially at low levels where it's easy to advance!! >Which leads me to this question: >Does anyone do anything with character histories? I have a personal hobby as a DM: i oblige all my players to write plausible stories for their characters, leaving some gaps. Then I fill in the gaps with MY ideas and campaign hooks and also tailor adventures on their PCs' histories. And if a player is too lazy to come upon a detailed and good background for his character, woe to him or her, cause i can then add whatever i want and draw his PC in all the "schemes from the past" that i want! Currently i'm running a campaign in which the PCs travel thru the OW to earn a reputation, and whenever they arrive in one of their homelands, i design an adventure who will have the native PC as main character of the story, possibly using her/his background to involve him and the others in the plot. Up to now i've successfully run 5 such adventures (they are 8 PCs and 2 NPCs) and i'm running O2, Sword of Vengeance adapted to fit the company's wooddrake PC (the other members don't know of his true identity, they know him as Shaun the Elfin). And after that i'll finally reveal them the true history of the 2 NPCs and will probably use (adapting it) the adventure in PC4 dealing with Malachie du Marais.. As u see, without my PCs background i feel we wouldn't have so much fun.. DM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:19:04 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Secret Crafts, Radiance, Imortals At 01.24 18/12/97 EST, Mystcblade wrote: >1st I know that, in the Wrath of the Imortals: Imortals Fury adventure, the Nucleaus of spheres was changed to drain Entropy's energy instead of The sphere of Energy's Energy (didn't come out well but you know what I mean) yet, according to the Glantri Adnd box set, it still drains away magic from the world . . .why is that? For more info about the current effects and powers of the Radiance and NoS, look at my homepage where i've gathered a month of letters and discussions between the List and Bruce HEard who explained us the real facts and future scenarios. The URL is: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Look under the "Mystara Miscellanea" section and there you'll find the article about the Nucleus of the Spheres. >2nd are the side >effects (Cripeled body parts) of the radiance because of the entropic energy (Unlikely) it uses as feul, some form of Radiation poisoning or just because of pure magic held in mere mortal's frame (Obviously this is more of a debate except for the entropic one wich "Almost" could be ruled out since Mcbarnet or whatever his name turned lich before WOTI but it could just of been failed attempt at beccoming immortal through radiance.). >From what i've always understood, the effects of Radiance are just due to nuclear radiations of the NoS which affect living tissues like normal rad. Maybe the magical forces which the NoS has inside also add to the dangerousness and poisoning effect of the normal radiations.. >3RD does anyone know where I >can get rules for Radiance useing mages in ODnD what about secret crafts (Probably in the Glantri thing for ODnd but want to make sure). Secret Crafts and Use of Radiance in OD&D can be found in supplement "GAZ3: Principalities of Glantri", by Bruce Heard. >4TH How do you convert imortals into ADnD (or should you bother) the only real problem is that there stats are in DnD terms and go up to 100 wich inadvertently causes them to be more powerful then other campaigns Avatars if the Imortal is in Manfestation form. wixh is fine with me I guess if a pcomes up I'll just dieless role-play it (I think the imortal passed his Systems Shock!) I don't think anyone has ever tried succesfully to convert D&D immortals in AD&D deities (not officially at least), so it's DM's rule here... >5TH In Your (as in everyone reading the post) opion is Mystara better in ODnD or ADnD Since i hate AD&D system my answer is very easy: D&D was the system in which Mystara was born and when TSR converted it to AD&D system they just committed the final act of their euthanasy... i think Mystara should have died with D&D: she deserved it... But then, fortunately we're here to keep her alive. :) DM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:53:27 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Tournament Questions (Quiz =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=B02?= )Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII At 13.12 17/12/97 EST, Jamuga Khan wrote: >HISTORY (Total: 30 points) >1) Who was the first Thyatian Emperor? (2) >Zendrolion Tatriokanitas. It seems you're the only one who knows it... :) >9) What is the oldest nation of the Old World? (2) >Alphatia BEEP! I said "old world", that means Known World, and Alphatia's not there geographically speaking.. >7) List all the powers of a (OD&D) Staff of Wizardry. (6) >Staff +1, Invisibility, Hole-in-the-wall, Net, Conjure Elemental, Lightning, Fireball, Icestorm/-wall, Permanent Light, Telekinesis, Paralyse, Tornado and Final Blow. I don't believe you knew all of them by memory! I'll never do! You CHEATER!!! :) DM ...:) PS: seems the quiz polls are very popular these days, what do u say Aleksei? You created a fashion!! :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 20:55:57 +0100 From: GEIR HELGE RYSTE Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatin and Alphatian Mages This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------48A229FE9CB0CCFA78F4669E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matthew Levy wrote: >well, if Alphatians really do consider themselves a separate and superior race, that is interesting. Do you have a source for this? I thought Alphatians were pretty liberal in that respect, especially compared to Thyatins. Can't even monster spellcasters become aristocrats in Alphatia? If Alphatians are racial supremacists, how do they deal with Shiye, etc.? Are they perhaps rabid (non-racial) nationalists instead? do they have a subtle and implicit racist and nationalist bias, but not think of themselves as anything other than liberal and tolerant (even as they blast other countries to smithereens for defying their "values" (kind of like Americans)? let me know more on this. There are as I remeber ( It's been a while since I read it :) ) three kinds of Alpathians: common, pure and the followers of fire in Glantri. True they "accept" all persons who can cast spells, but they have as we all do degrees of acceptance, the pure Alphatians belive themselves above the common Alphatians and the other races and absolutly hates the followers of fire ( as a result of the war on their old homeworld.). The problem with Alphatians are that they are induvidials, you can not rule them unless they want to be ruled. As for blasting countries to smithereens, when did they do that? The only country which has been blasted is as far as I know Glantri when they proved to be a real threat. I think that it is important that we look to the fact that although they have the power to subjugate every nation on Mystara if they all acted together, why should they? I play a wizard in the Birthright setting, and it is nothing he hates more than to be drawn away from his research to go to battle, therefore he keeps a sizeable army to deterr and answer any agressors with. Peace. GHR Denne mailen er virus testet - --------------48A229FE9CB0CCFA78F4669E Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for GEIR HELGE RYSTE Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: GEIR HELGE RYSTE n: RYSTE;GEIR HELGE org: LOGISTIKK, DISKEN adr: TRONDHEIMSVN. 51B;;;OSLO;;0560;NORWAY email;internet: OSLGHR@INFOCARE.NO title: SERVICEMEDARBEIDER tel;work: 2317 1200 tel;fax: 2317 1241 tel;home: 2267 5177 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------48A229FE9CB0CCFA78F4669E-------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:15:27 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Priest spheres for AD&D2nd Ed. On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Aaron E Nowack wrote: >I personaly think that the very nature of radiation drains magic.The Nucleus of the Spheres continually drained magic from Mystara. When the Radience was actually used, it drained even more magic. An important repricussion of this is that Rafiel's reactor WILL drain magic from Mystara. The soul crystals do not accelerate the magic drain because they simply soak up the normal radiation. I disagree. The Radiance drains magic from Mystara, true (which still seems more than a little problematic to me- what about a Mystaran magician on another plane? Where does he get his magic from? How about one outside the Skyshield? Where's his magic come from? And why would he suddenly lose it once he was back within Mystara's Skyshield?) Back to my point- the Radiance drains magic from Mystara, but only *after* being altered by the Immortals and the Old Ones to do so. It didn't originally do anything of the sort. It was just a plain old nuclear reactor. And since Rafiel's reactor has not been altered by anyone else (no one else even knows about it), and since he is building it based on knowledge of his gained during his life as a nuclear physicist, it shouldn't be connected to the magic drain on Mystara in any way, shape or form. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:22:48 EST From: DUFFISGOD Subject: Re: [Mystara] HOT STOCKS: Give yourself a XMas Present!!! remove ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:13:57 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Adventures in Alphatia pt1 Some interesting ideas here. Might I suggest another one- Adventures in Citadel (the capital city of Bettellyn) using the Ruins of Undermountain boxed sets for Forgotten Realms, and some minor changes here and there. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:04:57 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Priest spheres for AD&D2nd Ed. At 13.15 18/12/97 -0700, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >I disagree. The Radiance drains magic from Mystara, true (which still seems more than a little problematic to me- what about a Mystaran magician on another plane? Where does he get his magic from? How about one outside the Skyshield? Where's his magic come from? And why would he suddenly lose it once he was back within Mystara's Skyshield?) >Back to my point- the Radiance drains magic from Mystara, but only *after* being altered by the Immortals and the Old Ones to do so. It didn't originally do anything of the sort. It was just a plain old nuclear reactor. >And since Rafiel's reactor has not been altered by anyone else (no one else even knows about it), and since he is building it based on knowledge of his gained during his life as a nuclear physicist, it shouldn't be connected to the magic drain on Mystara in any way, shape or form. ... though it may still provide some magical effect not unlike the Radiance spells in Glantri... ;-) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 20:40:37 EST From: Mystcblade Subject: [Mystara] GAZ 3 Is anyone willing to sell GAZ 3 Principalities of Glantri I been trying to find a copy for some time now with no luck. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 03:09:13 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [Mystara] GURPS Mystara On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >So, Haavard, what rules do you use for conversion? What racial templates do you use? How do you recreate clerical magic? >Inquiring GURPS playes want to know... :) I have used conversion rules found on GURPSnet basically for characters and monsters. Howevere, some times there has been a need for using a bit of "feel" and just recreating the characters, the way I though they should be. Clerical magic is something that has kept me awake more than one night, and I haven't really made a final decicion on this. Currently, they are like the ones in GURPS Religion with some vague guidelines on which spells to pick. You (Leroy) sent me some interesting Clerical magic rules a few years ago, and I've been thinking about switching to those, but I'm not sure yet. None of my player characters are clerics so its not a decicion I am forced to make, yet. The heroes in my campaing are: 1 fluteplayer with fairy blood 1 smith who is actually heir to a lordly domain 1 Werewolf and 1 talkative and friendly scoundrel. All 100point characters or thereabouts. >>I've made Mystara Normal Mana level, though this is debatable. Hollow World is probably low mana, and spells there are even more rare than in Karameikos. >Normal mana is a good call. If you are looking to recreate the more cinematic feel of AD&D magic, you might try the Unlimited Mana rules. Have you seen these? I bought an old issue of Pyramid recently with something on that. I'll have a closer look at it. Thanks for the tips. I'll post my version of Gurps races soon, but I gotta get some sleep now. See ya. Håvard ****** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 07:58:05 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re: [Mystara] GAZ 3 http://www.dragontrove.com/basic.html NA29 - Gaz #3 Principalities of Glantri - Near Mint $14.00 >Is anyone willing to sell GAZ 3 Principalities of Glantri I been trying to find a copy for some time now with no luck. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:07:32 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Tournament Questions (Quiz =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=B02?= ) On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, DM wrote: >ECONOMICS (Total: 30 points) >1) What's the exchange rate for 1 gp in silver pieces and electrum pieces? (1) 1gp=2ep=10sp >2) What's the name of the Thyatian gold piece? (2) Lucin >3) What's the exchange rate for 1 Glantrian Crown in gold pieces (in Glantri)? (2) 50gp if enchanted, 5gp if not. >4) Name 1 imported and 1 exported good by Ierendi (6) Imported - wood, exported - fish >5) What's the wealthiest nation of the world after 1010 AC? (3) That's a tough one... I'd say Minrothad. >6) Name at least two nations of the world that don't impose taxes on its inhabitants. (5) I'll give you three - Vestland, Ostland, and Soderfjord (aside from the road tolls etc.) >7) What's the Sales Tax? (3) A merchant pays it on the goods he sells. >8) Name at least one nation of the Old World that doesn't use the gold piece (2) Ethengar. >9) Name at least one major feature of the Darokinian economic system (4) Certified Letter of Credit (CLOC). >10) How much does a longsword normally cost? (2) OK, I've read this probably a thousand times, but you don't usually remember things like that ;) 10gp I think. >HISTORY (Total: 30 points) Ah, I should be good at this one (I hope :) >1) Who was the first Thyatian Emperor? (2) Zendrolion I Tatriokanitas. >2) Who's the current (AC 1014) Emperor of Thyatis? (1) Eusebius I Torion. >3) List at least two important events that changed the political scenario in the old world from AC 1009 to AC 1014. (2) AC1009: Alphatia sinks. AC1014: Kin faction gains power in Ylaruam. >4) Who is the current (AC 1014) Chancellor of Darokin? (3) Corwyn Mauntea. >5) When and why Rockhome broke all the diplomatical relationships with Glantri? (4) 802 AC I think, when the plague hit Glantri and the dwarves got kicked out. >6) Who is the most prominent figure of the Ylari history and why? (3) Suleiman al-Kalim, who liberated Ylaruam from Thyatis and Alphatia and united the tribes. >7) When did Ierendi become an independent Kingdom? (5) 602 AC. >8) What is the Spikes' Assault and when did it take place? (6) 959-960 AC, when Alphatian troops attacked Thyatis City and killed the Emperor. And BTW, it's Spike Assault. >9) What is the oldest nation of the Old World? (2) Alphatia, if it still counts and if you consider it to be the Old World (from 1000 BC), otherwise Karameikos/Traladara (from around 1000 BC as well), or Alfheim, if you still count it (from 800 BC). >10) When did the Heldannic Knights take over the Heldann Freeholds? (2) 950 AC. >GEOGRAPHY (Total: 30 points) >1) Name at least three of the Ierendi islands. (2) I could probably name all ten, but here goes: Ierendi, Safari, Honor. >2) Which nations border on Ierendi? (3) None by land, Minrothad, Karameikos, Five Shires, Darokin, and Atruaghin Clans by sea. >3) List at least 6 capitals of the Old World nations (2) Thyatis City, Glantri City, Darokin City, Soderfjord, Ylaruam (those guys have no imagination :) , Dengar. >4) What's the most populated city of the Old World? (1) Thyatis City (500,000) >5) What's the name of the most important river of Darokin? (3) Streel River. >6) Which countries does the Overland Trade Route cross? (5) All of them I think. >7) Where is the Great School of Magic (city/nation)? (1) Glantri City, Glantri. >8) What's the longest river of the Old World? (4) Streel? >9) What's the highest mountain of the Old World and where is it located? (6) Not quite sure, either World Mountain in Ethengar, or Mt.Everast in Rockhome. >10) Name at least three provinces controlled by the Empire of Thyatis (3) Septentriona, Meridiona, Aegos >MAGIC & RELIGION (Total: 30 points) >1) What is the holy book of the Eternal Truth? (4) The Nahmeh. >2) What is the symbol of the Heldannic Knights' Order? (1) Black lion. >3) What is the official religion of Ierendi? (3) No official religion, but there are the Peoples' Temple and Eternal Truth. >4) To which Immortal belongs the "Silver Moon" symbol? (2) Asterius? >5) Who is the Immortal Patron of Justice and Revenge? (2) Tarastia. >6) Name one clerical and magic-user's spell of levels 1 and 2. (2) Cure Light Wounds, Magic Missile. >7) List all the powers of a (OD&D) Staff of Wizardry. (6) Wouldn't dare to try... >8) What are the requirements a Magic-user must satisfy to cast a Wish spell? (5) Lvl 36, Int 18. >9) How many "Cure" clerical spells do exist? (1) 4 (CLW, CSW, CCW, Cureall) >10) How is the Multiverse divided according to the recent Theories on the Planes of Existence? (4) Do you mean like dimensions, then planes? >MISCELLANEA (Total: 30 points) >1) How many calendars are diffused throughout the Old World by AC 1014? (3) Let's see... Thyatian, Alphatian, Minrothad, Dwarf, Halfling, Ethengar, Shadow Elf, Sindhi. That's 8. >2) What are the main festivals and holidays of Ierendi? (4) Don't remember. >3) How many of the current Sheriffs of the Five Shires are women? (3) If you mean 1014 AC, then 2. >4) Who is Oran Meditor? (1) Ruling Guildmaster of Minrothad. >5) What are the true names of the so called "Northern Reaches"? (2) Vestland, Ostland, Soderfjord. >6) Name at least two nations where slavery is legal. (3) Thyatis, NACE. >7) Name one country where the ruler of the nation is also the head of the Church and of the army? (2) Heldannic Territories. >8) List all of the current (AC 1014) Principalities of Glantri. (5) Nouvelle Averoigne, Morlay-Malinbois, Aalban, Bergdhoven, Krondahar, Klantyre, Boldavia, Belcadiz, Erewan, Bramyra, Sablestone, Fenswick, New Kolland. >9) When does the so called Day of Dread occurs? (1) 28th Kaldmont every year. >10) What is Chi and where is it located? (6) That's a tough one. I'd have to dig up my math books for that :) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:18:42 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Tournament Questions (Quiz =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=B02?= ) On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >>4) Who is Oran Meditor? (1) >Ruling Guild Master of Ierendi. If you are going to say that in Ierendi Crown Tourney, you are going to be stoned :) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:34:09 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - High level Campaigns and Alphatia (was: Thyatian and Alphatian Mages) (LONG) Matthew Levy wrote: >up for some feckless meandering? Straight after you: you opened the path.. and i followed :) >On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, DM wrote: >>We already addressed the issue a month or so ago, but it seems it's become a recurring phenomenon much like Day of Dread and the Elves' true history.. we'll never get rid of it, i suppose.. ;) >I'm not the one that brought it up again ... I am just responding to arguments >others have made. I promise to stop talking about it just as soon as everyone >agrees that I am right. I think you forgot to use the smiley here.. did you? :) >>I don't know if you've ever had a powerful Mage in your party or campaign (be him PC or NPC), but i assure you this is not what normally happens. >yes i have had powerful mages in my campaign and this is EXACTLY what they did >... one took over Ierendi and started mass manufacturing high powered air >rifles, another one built a giant flying castle and a fleet of adamantine clad >warships, another subdued a whole tribe of dragons and made them into mounts >for his elite force, etc. In fact I can't think of any that didn't do this. >And these guys weren't even all that high in level. Err.. who was the DM? I've always talked with my players about these problems and even if sometimes they've had megalomaniac ideas, i've always been able to solve them and cool their hotheads (either by talking with them out of the game explaining them their behaviour was just desruptive and silly, OR by taking steps INSIDE the game to prevent the utter annihilation of the campaign -i.e. using other powerful antagonists!) Sorry, but it wasn't you the one who talked about "playing without levels is the greatest reward of all" and "my campaign is low level and i like it so"? Guess i'm beginning to understand why you hate high level campaigns.. >>High level mages don't go flying around rampaging and conquering kingdoms for two reasons mainly: >>1) they have STYLE, they must behave according to the "stereotype" they want to embody: so you'll have the "scholar wizard", the "reclusive", the "hero", the "ruler", the "evil mastermind" and the "lunatic madman" for example. But Mystara (and Alphatia in this case) is not overpopulated by madmen (and for every madmen there is always a good guy taking care of him, that's the rule) and evil villains (especially wizards) are too intelligent to waste time just "rampagin thru the countryside": they employ far subtler and more rewarding methods to acquire their goals. >this is not an explanation, it is arbitrary psychobabble. I can't really find >a world in which the use of force is solely confined to peculiarly deviant >individuals plausible ... particularly a fantasy world. I didn't say this and you know it. I did say you can have many different psychologies for wizards, and the powermongers, ruthless villains are only some of them. Think about one of the most famous villains of all times: Darth Vader. You never saw him flying around with his TIE blasting all the farmers or rulers to rob them. He was powerful and evil, but he had STYLE and TASTE: that was a cool type of villain! PERSONALLY i don't think Alphatia is made up of raving villains who don't want anything other than teleporting here and there to ransack farmhouses or palaces like a tribe of goblins! They are aristocrats, by the Mighty Ixion! There are some types like this but they are (fortunately) a minority (or else Alphatia would have overruled the world in the official campaign!) >fantasy characters (and especially D&D characters) as a rule are power hungry, >even those who are nominally good-aligned. in my Mystara, there ARE no out->and-out good guys ... STOP! I want to remark this statement of yours: (Cut & Paste) "fantasy characters (and especially D&D characters) as a rule are power hungry," Where the heck did u find out that RULE? But THERE i see the reference you're making! Now i understand (quote): "in my Mystara, there ARE no out-and-out good guys" So it's about YOUR Mystara we're talking now! I thought we were talking about the official campaign, the one everyone knows. Well, since i am not involved in your campaign, then i guess i cannot argument anymore with you: you are clearly the winner.. >just guys who happen to be on your side, or perhaps feel a bit of compassion >from time to time, or believe in law or something ... but everybody uses >violence to serve whatever goals they have. That's what makes it dangerous, >and hence, a world of adventure. Hence a world of psycopaths, i'd say. "Trust No One" "Watch your back" and"Nobody's a friend" are your favourite mottos, ain't it (IYC, i mean)? Well i'm sorry but i DM in a much more positive world: friends (true friends) can exist, sacrifice is a word that counts and love and honor still are higher values (especially the second: there are villains who fight with honor even though they're on the wrong side!). Sorry, we're clearly talking about two different styles of mastering. >and subtler methods are fine, but it would STILL mean that Alphatians would be >involved in the politics of other countries far more often than they seem to be >... where is the Alphatian CIA? And so? I think you've lost my point. I didn't say Alphatia was an angelic nation of good-doers and nice people. I said that Not All Wizards Of Alphatia Are Evil Overlords! Just to make you know, IMC (note, it's IMC!) i have two very extensive webs of spies and thieves who work for Alphatia's and Thyatis' government. Thyatis' CIA is the Order of the Azure Eagle and it accepts every type of person as long as he/she is loyal to Thyatis and is born thyatian. Alphatia's CIA is simply named the Web and is made up of many different people with different talents (not only mages!). >Conquerin and ruling dominions it's easier for a high level mage than it is for >a low level fighter. >plus which, you don't actually have to administrate anything, all you have to >do is wander about with impunity raping and pillaging what you like ... >passwall into the vault, stick the gold in the bag of holding, and wraithform >away ... easy as pie. But then you haven't really conquered anything. And besides, if a mage acted like this, he wouldn't be really a mage, but more a sort of powerful thief.. how lowly.. I never let the wizards, clerics or avengers in my group behave this way: it's simply not what the real PC would do (this is the player's greed not the PC's, that's the way i see it, at least). >as far as I can see the whole reason someone would want to become a high level >wizard is so they can have autonomous power ... if they really wanted to serve >a higher purpose unselfishly, they'd probably be clerics. Even then, the >higher purposes the cleric serves might often lead them to ruthless actions ... >especially in a conflict-ridden world. Certainly! Every player (or PC), be him a thief or a dwarf or a mage, wants to become more powerful in the end: that's the goal of the game! BUT we're not talkin about this!! You seem to loose the thread: what i was complainin about is your vision of Alphatian mages as powermongers! Sure they want to become powerful, but not all of them want to use their power in the same way nor see the word "power" with the same meaning. Some simply want to know everything about magic (what a feat!), others want to know everything about the universe, others want to travel thru dimensions or planes or even time to acquire their knowledge, others want simply to acquire a high position in Alphatia's burocracy and nobility, maybe gain a dominion and be revered. Others only want to be powerful to use their power to destroy an annihilate everything they don't like, or to make themselves a reputation. I don't say there aren't such people: i simply say there are NOT ONLY them, but also the other "stereotypes" i've listed, and you should acknowledge this. It's like in real world: some people desire power to do good things, others to do bad things but most of them to serve their interests. The same things go for mages: but not all of their interests is annihilating and destroying other countries! KNOWLEDGE is what is really important to a mage ACCORDING TO THE RULES written in every fantasy book, because with knowledge comes power! >it just seems your argument rests too much on the inherent moral character of >high level magic users. >excuse me while i fight off my growing sarcasm .... It seems you didn't win at all.. And yes, i am starting from an observation of the inner drives of hypothetical types of mages to put forth my argument, a thing you seem to ignore instead. There is not only "the bad evil powerhungry wizard", you know, much like there's not only "the big stupid skilled fighter" on Mystara: i assumed you knew this... but then it seems my assumptions have been disilluded >>Wait, wait. Sure Alphatia was a superpower, but so is and was Thyatis. >till a backwater relatively. kinda like China today compared to the US, maybe. So why was Thyatis able to stand unified and independent from Alphatia for 1000 years? And Alphatia wasn't that far from it, you know: it also had those mighty flying ships to use.. So, what was it: sheer luck? Vanya's protection?.. >>Alphatia's main rulers are mages, and this means they don't cooperate much, especially since they are so many. >this brings us back around the cycle again ... if they don't cooperate, why don't they fight each other? away from one leads towards the other. Why should they? To risk their already envyable situation? To risk loosing all their power and wealth? Why? To risk the wrath of the other mages for bringing up chaos in the empire? If they don't collaborate this doesn't mean they must fight each other: never heard the word "ignore"? Never heard the saying "live and let live (or die)"? >>Also many of them were zzonga-addicted, and this influenced their ruling and >> spellcasting capacities. >now this is interesting. but how does one get to 36th level if he's chewing >funny strawberries and dancing at raves all night? not much time left to study >magic. But are we talking about the mages of the Council or all the Alphatian mages? Well, anyway most of the alphatian zzonga addicted mages began assuming zzonga when they reached high levels of power when life had nothing more challenging to give them. And so they began assuming zzonga, which let them live happily without too much involving in the boring affaires of the world.. Like some of many drug addicted: they have anything they want, they're bored to death with their wealth and power and with this world and so they try to discover other worlds where they can live free and happy. Zzonga offered them the same thing, and it was much more easy and less dangerous than a "Gate" spell.. ;) In fact, you don't see many low level mages assuming zzonga, cause they still have drives and interests that push them: it's when you've got all you start assuming zzonga. >>Finally, they all knew Thyatis could >>count on great strategists and valent fighters, and if Alphatia had waged an aggressive policy towards Thyatis, the other nations of the Old World would have feared for their independency too, maybe backing up the thyatian empire. Too much risks and no really pressing goals. >what about preserving colonial dominance? surely colonies and trade matter to >alphatia, and the thyatins regularly and continuously threatened this. They threatened Alphatian colonies and alphatian trade? When? Where? I've always thought from what we know that Alphatia was damn able to withstand thyatis' colonial expansionism or trade competition (and didn't u also say that Alphati was too damn more powerful that Thyatis?).. >>Obviously on its part Alphatia served as political power to hinder Thyatis' expansionism in the same way: without Alphatia Thyatis would have surely been unstoppable in the Old World, and many of the nations as we know them now wouldn't exist. >if that's true, that means the Alphatians must have consciously been engaging >in a system of sovereignty guarantees towards various small nations such as >Ylaruam, Darokin, and Minrothad ... if so that's fascinating, but why hasn't it >showed up in the histories at all? >Perhaps it is a high level diplomatic secret. Well, i hate to make such stupid examples but it seems i'm forced. How about the Cold War? Do you think that if the US hadn't be so powerful CCCP wouldn't have conquered Europe? But they weren't engaged in open warfare, isn't it? So i think there was a similar unspoken war between Alphatia and Thyatis: Alphatia knew it couldn't try to invade the KW or Thyatis cause else Thyatis would have had the support of many (if not all) of the KW nations and Alphatia wouldn't have had a chance against them all. On the other hand, Thyatis knew it couldn't advance any rights on the KW nations because Alphatia would have punished it and hit it in the rear, probably with the help of the other KW nations which saw their independency menaced by thyatian colonialism. It was a stalemate! >>So Alphatia served its pourpose, and it's being now used in a similar (though much epic) way in the hollow World: the superpower that defends the weaker nations (a good solution IMHO: i've always liked Alphatia! ;)) >well from the rosy view you have of them, I can see why. I guess I am a little >more paranoid .. I figure they can't be up to any good. My gosh! It's written in PWA: now Alphatia's duty is to protect the Hollow World and Empress Eriadna (who's no Stalin!) understood it. The Immortals put it there for this reason! >I don't think GAZ3 is so unbalancing after all, because the social aspects of >getting access to all that power are so difficult to maneuver ... I've always >thought that Glantri was one of the very best gazeteers, both because I enjoy >its nebulous gothic moral atmosphere and because there is just so much detail >on the social politics ... in Glantri adventures level truly matters less than >anywhere else because so much of success or failure lies in knowing who your >friends are and having patrons you can rely on ... much more realistic i think >than a country where everyone is nice and gives you things for being born into >the right class without any danger or conflict inherent in this system ... Again, i didn't say GAZ3 was unbalancing, but that it gave the players much more unbalancing powers than what Alphatia gaz did (example the Secret Crafts and the courses of the Great School of Magic that every mage with some money can attend -see Combination..). And in Alphatia nobody gives you magic items and spells for free because you're a mage. Sure, if you're a mage you're also an aristocrat, but what does this mean in concrete? You've got the upper edge with the law, but that's the same if you're a noble in Glantri or a noble in Thyatis (and you are born noble in Thyatis). You don't get any other help if you don't know the right people and have the right friends as in Glantri.. But that's the way I understand it, of course.. >in a realistic fantasy world, EVERYBODY would be concerned about the presence >of high level people, BECAUSE THEY ARE SO DAMN POWERFUL. if i live next door >to a guy who can slay armies by pointing his finger and mumbling, i will be >VERY concerned to see that he is happy with me all the time. even if said >badass lives a mile away, or ten miles, or even a hundred or a thousand >(depending on HOW powerful he is exactly), his very existence will affect my >life constantly. I can see your point, but let's make a little example again. Do you think that i feel threatened when i think there are guys living in my same country that could kidnap or assassinate me or that there are guys living on the other side of the world that could reduce my country to ashes if they used their weapons? Personally, i know there are some risks in life, but i don't feel touched by them until they come really near to me. I don't go about armed nor i take kung-fu lessons to defend myself cause there are criminals: i'm careful to avoid dangers, but that's all. As for the nuclear powers, well, i cannot do anything to stop them so i don't bother: if they want to nuke us they'll do! So if these Big Bad Guys don't really threaten the PCs first hand (threaten them or some friend or maybe their own town), they won't care less and maybe they won't even know they exist. Do you see my point? They'll try to get important NPCs as allies to confront their direct enemies, but they know they cannot do anything to contrast very powerful NPCs and nations, so why bother?! And if they come to threaten you, well then you better escape or face your destiny, this i agree with you. But i rarely let this happen (also, why would a powerful NPC threaten a low level adventurer? Why bother?).. unless they cause it to happen of course ;) >That doesn't mean that as a DM I would throw characters against hopeless odds >... it means that as low level characters, they will have to rely on contacts >with high level NPCs to protect them frequently, they will have to get good at >keeping their head down and figuring out who's tougher than they are, so they >can AVOID fights when necessary. Players in my game learn quickly the moral >value of cowardice. This has to be so because Alphatia's might (or whoever's) >is there whether you like it or not. Yes, i agree with you on this view. (finally...) >i like the fact that in most D&D the power over life and death that wizards wield at least has a more complex aesthetic than smart bombs and one-sided wars. Uh? I think somebody has probably feebleminded me because i have no idea what you're talking about here. Could you make it a bit clearer? >i do not dispute the indisputable and absolute supremacy of Mystara over all >other worlds. I only further assert the supremacy of my Mystara over yours. :) >(sorry to return a polemic with another) I have appreciated the fact u used the smiley this time :) However, i never tried to impose MY Mystara (as u call it) upon yours: i was only giving you my version of the story, which is not so abstract or unacceptable i think.. And from what i've understood, our Mystaras are so different they cannot really be compared with the same scale: thus no one is superior.. :) >I don't object to the idea of characters advancing in levels, becoming exalted, >even getting to be immortal and transcending the limitations of humanity ... >but I do object to EVERY PC doing this (which is how a lot these Mystara games >seem to be inclined to run) ... Well, since RPG games like AD&D are centered on the level advancement idea, i guess it's natural. If u don't like it, simply change the game system but do not start a crusade against high level characters or campaigns.. mind you.. >even the idea of a party of 36th level characters adventuring together (with no >lower level characters) just seems damn strange to me. i also don't like the >disparity in game terms between the highest and the lowest ... i think EVEN THE >IMMORTALS should have less power, so that they can be interesting elements of a >mystical campaign and not all-powerful mega-beings. It seems to me you don't like D&D at all, so why do you keep playing? Simply change the system and mantain the campaign world and you've solved your problem! But then i'd really like to see what kinda system you'll use without dumping the high fantasy level of Mystara.. >Spells like Commune or Contact Other Plane should be limited by the limitations >of Immortals ... this preserves the mystery of the game and prevents the kinds >of distortions you call natural and inevitable. I always give the players who use these spells the info I choose to give, disregarding the description of spells. And my players agree with me that if they were Immortals they wouldn't pay much attention to such silly mortal questions like "Where's my enemy's hidden location?".. too much PP expenditure for nothing.. >part of the blame for this i would lay on the old companion and master rules >sets which really fubared a lot of what i like about D&D ... that's where I >think AD&D works much better in several respects. >that's a good thing to bring up too .. in AD&D you can hit Grand Master in a >chosen weapon by 13th level, and wizards get access to the highest possible >spell level by 18th ... doesn't this make advancement to 36th seem kind of >exaggerated and ridiculous? Well, you see if u look at the total Xp needed, the 36th level is equal to 20th level in AD&D.. only, D&D makes the passage from 1st to 36th more gradual, while AD&D requires A LOT OF TIME to pass from 13th level to 20th.. and i find this very annoying and stressing.. But as you've seen, we have a different concept of game. :) >the most powerful PC ever in my game ... one who actually played all the way up >through the levels (more or less) is a 14th level ranger who does as much >damage now as he will ever do ... as an ambidextrous grandmaster of the >longsword with two matched magic longswords and gauntlets of ogre power (none >of which were particularly overgenerous on the part of his various DM's, seeing >as he travelled through Mystara, Toril, Ravenloft (got out of that one), and a >couple of other worlds and got into hand-to-hand combat with a pit fiend one >time - close call), Caleb does about 80 points of damage a round (with OD&D >weapon mastery he did even more) and virtually never misses ... Ah ah ah... And YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT HIGH LEVEL WIZARDS????? That PC could kill a 20th level wizard in ONE ROUND!! Be serious! Just for the sake of curiosity: has AD&D still the Armor Class limit of - -10? In this case i see why he always strikes.. Anyway, i don't think it was a good move to integrate the Weapon Mastery rules in AD&D: AD&D has already unbalancing rules of its own without adding the ultimate munchkin rules of D&D... :( >for a while it was a running joke that if anything attacked him all he had to >do was say "I kill it" and it was more or less Melba toast. For especially >powerful enemies he had to say "I kill it" twice. That's really funny! :) Reminds me of that story, "the disgusting company": ever read it? It's about power gamers campaign. U can find it in my site in the FUNtasy page: take a look at it, it's really cool! ;) >Caleb is about out of the ordinary bounds of anything I could call play balance >... however he does frequently interact with lower level people ... he's >presently hunting remorhaz in Nentsun (not sure why - strange player, strange >motivations) and so not terribly disruptive, but I can't imagine the havoc 36th >level characters would do in a world where most people simply can't stop them >from doing whatever they want to do ... does Alphatia have any kind of law >enforcement to protect the poor suffering mundanes? Yes: they've got MORE powerful characters at their disposal with the sole pourpose to stop those powerhungry PCs! Really, read the "Disgusting Company" short story in my website and have a laugh about this incredible situation all masters must cope with. PS: sorry for the heatened tones of the letter, i wasn't offending you. As u say: Peace ;) DM ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #234 ***************************** mystara-digest Saturday, December 20 1997 Volume 02 : Number 235 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:35:53 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] My answers to Jamuga christmas quiz Ok Jamuga Khan, these are my answers: 1. What are the three greatest known freshwater lakes of Mystara? Of course sorted by area. A: Uhmm.. You mean of the Old World or in the whole world? Anyway, i'll tell you the ones i remember: Lake Amsorak (Darokin), Lake Klintest (Rockhome), Lake Tros (Hule). 2. How many orkhans live on the Sea of Grass (and what are their names) ? A: mmhh.. tricky question, but IIRC there's only one orkhan, who's the vice of Moglai: Jamal. 3. Which countries or regions have been influenced by Alphatian migrations? A: Sheesh! Well, up to AC 1014 i'd say Ylaruam, Glantri, Karameikos, Atruaghin, Norwold, Thyatis, Minrothad, Isle of Dawn, Bellissaria, Alatian Islands, Esterhold, Ochalea, Yanifey Islands, Qeodhar, Neathar Lands in HW (Alphatian Neatharum).. did i forget something? 4. Which countries or regions have been influenced by Thyatian migrations? A: Oh my oh my! Well, Glantri, Ylaruam, Karameikos, Ierendi, Minrothad, Darokin, Norwold, Isle of Dawn, Hinterlands (Davania), Heldann, Alatian Islands, Savage Baronies.. i think that's all. 5. Which countries or regions have been influenced by Traldaran migrations? A: Well, Karameikos, Milenia (both in HW and surface world, Davania) and Traldar Lands in HW (does it count?).. 6. Of how many kingdoms consists the second Alphatian Empire? A: I'm gonna kill you for this one!! What are u referring to? Alphatia in the HW i presume.. ok, i'd say, err.. around 20.. more or less.. 7. How many nations are known on Mystara? (I'm not sure that I will be able to count all, but I don't want to found the United Nations of Mystara nyhow.) For less civilized people without a true nation (like Atruaghin) the people as whole counts. The stand can be any year between AC 1000 and AC 1014. A: BUT DO YOU KNOW ALL THIS BY MEMORY!!?? Fine, i'd say around 50 (if u count an Empire u don't count the kingdoms/counties/provinces of that empire, right?). Both surface and Hollow world, of course 8. What RW people have found their counterparts on Mystara? A: Amerindians (Atruaghin), Indians (Sindhi), Chinese (Ochaleans), Netherlanders (Flaems), Scottish (Klantyre kaelics), French (Averoignans), Latins (Thyatians), Germans (Thyatians/Hattians), Spanish (Thyatians/Ispans), Italians (Thyatians/Kerendans), Mongols (Ethengars), Romanians/Russians (Traladarans), Turks (Huleans), Norsemen (Antalians - -Northern Reaches, Norwold, Heldann), Celtic/Irish (West Isle of Dawn inhabitants), Arabs (Ylari), Egyptians (Nithians), Greeks (Milenians), Olmecs (Oltecs), Aztecs (Azcans), Polynesians/Hawaaians (Ierendians/Tanegioth natives), Africans (Tanagoro), Amazons (Jennites), Portuguese/Spanish/English (Merry Pirates), English/Americans (Darokinians - -some of them), Icelanders (Yanifey, Qeodharians). Strange, no South-american population is represented.. 9. Which city lies on the western shore of Lake Amsorak? A: easy: Akesoli 10. What are the names of the seasonal camps of Moglai Khan? A: Easy: Chagon-Nah, Bargha and Xantha 11. What's the name of the capital of Meriander and what it's famous for? A: Alchemos and it's famous for its alchemical research facilities and for the university of Alchemos (where alchemy is the primary subject). DM (i'm sweating..) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:46:14 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Tournament Questions (Quiz =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=B02?= ) At 16.18 19/12/97 +0200, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >>>4) Who is Oran Meditor? (1) >>Ruling Guild Master of Ierendi. >If you are going to say that in Ierendi Crown Tourney, you are going to be stoned :) Ehm... ooops... Ierendi Crown Tourney? Isn't this the Minrothad Beer Festival? Sorry, I got confused... Oran Meditor is obviously the High Treekeeper of Shiye Elves... :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:35:37 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Tournament Questions (Quiz =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=B02?= ) At a quick glance, I don't think I will do well on it, but I give it a try. Some of the questions, however, are a bit too "bookish". and are more testing of the player's knowledge of the game, rather the character's knowledge of the world. I'm not sure whether that is what you intended. Example is the price of the long sword question. The character will probably just say depended on the quality of the sword. DM pontificated: >OK, following Aleksei's example, here it's some of the questions i normally ask to my players when their PCs try to participate to the Ierendi Tournament. If they answer and get enough points (each question gives some points, depending on the difficulty level), then they can advance and begin the duels. It's a sort of Knowledge Test all the applicants have to pass: you need a score of at least 70 out of 150 points to qualify for the crown competition. Note that these are questions that all the PCs (and therefore the players) CAN know: there are not DMs' secrets. >ECONOMICS (Total: 30 points) >1) What's the exchange rate for 1 gp in silver pieces and electrum pieces? (1) Generally 2 electrum and 10 silver >2) What's the name of the Thyatian gold piece? (2) I want to say Ducat, but I don't think that is right. >3) What's the exchange rate for 1 Glantrian Crown in gold pieces (in Glantri)? (2) 50, if magical. >4) Name 1 imported and 1 exported good by Ierendi (6) Import: grain?, monsters?. Export: feathers of a certain rare birds (can only be found on White Island, I think). >5) What's the wealthiest nation of the world after 1010 AC? (3) Humm, probably some country not hit hard by the War. >6) Name at least two nations of the world that don't impose taxes on its inhabitants. (5) Atrungan, Ethengar >7) What's the Sales Tax? (3) Tax imposed when certain items are being sold, based on the sale price of the item. >8) Name at least one nation of the Old World that doesn't use the gold piece (2) Ethengar >9) Name at least one major feature of the Darokinian economic system (4) Control by major merchant houses >10) How much does a longsword normally cost? (2) 15 or 30 gp. >HISTORY (Total: 30 points) >1) Who was the first Thyatian Emperor? (2) How could I not remember this? >2) Who's the current (AC 1014) Emperor of Thyatis? (1) Toran or something like that... >3) List at least two important events that changed the political scenario in the old world from AC 1009 to AC 1014. (2) Sinking of Alphatia, Death of Thincol, Ylarum became isolationist. >4) Who is the current (AC 1014) Chancellor of Darokin? (3) ? >5) When and why Rockhome broke all the diplomatical relationships with Glantri? (4) When Glantri start to blame dwarf for a plague and starts to proscuting them. Don't know what year. >6) Who is the most prominent figure of the Ylari history and why? (3) Al-Kalim. >7) When did Ierendi become an independent Kingdom? (5) ? >8) What is the Spikes' Assault and when did it take place? (6) Alphatia's offensive against Thyatis, that Thincol helped stopped and enable him to step on to the throne. Around 960, I believe. >9) What is the oldest nation of the Old World? (2) Humm, Alfheim? >10) When did the Heldannic Knights take over the Heldann Freeholds? (2) ? >GEOGRAPHY (Total: 30 points) >1) Name at least three of the Ierendi islands. (2) White, Honor, Fletch >2) Which nations border on Ierendi? (3) None by land, and I'm not sure they draw up sea border well. But probably Minrothad, Thyatis, Karameiko, and Five Shire. >3) List at least 6 capitals of the Old World nations (2) Thyatis City, Darokin City, Ylarum, Glantri City, (those are easy enough :), Mirro, Denwarg, Agenmor/City of the Stars. >4) What's the most populated city of the Old World? (1) Thyatis City (500,000?) >5) What's the name of the most important river of Darokin? (3) Streel >6) Which countries does the Overland Trade Route cross? (5) ? >7) Where is the Great School of Magic (city/nation)? (1) Glantri City, Glantri >8) What's the longest river of the Old World? (4) Streel? >9) What's the highest mountain of the Old World and where is it located? (6) What defines Old World? In KW are, I think Alten Tape. But I think Norworld have higher mountains in the Wyrmtooth range. >10) Name at least three provinces controlled by the Empire of Thyatis (3) Not sure what constitue as provinces. Manchto, Hattia, Kranda? >MAGIC & RELIGION (Total: 30 points) >1) What is the holy book of the Eternal Truth? (4) ? >2) What is the symbol of the Heldannic Knights' Order? (1) A Black Lion? >3) What is the official religion of Ierendi? (3) Asterious? >4) To which Immortal belongs the "Silver Moon" symbol? (2) >5) Who is the Immortal Patron of Justice and Revenge? (2) Tristia >6) Name one clerical and magic-user's spell of levels 1 and 2. (2) Cleric: Cure Light Wound and Stick to Snakes. MU: Read Magic and Knock. >7) List all the powers of a (OD&D) Staff of Wizardry. (6) Ahh, few years ago I might able to do it, but not anymore. >8) What are the requirements a Magic-user must satisfy to cast a Wish spell? (5) 34+ level, 18+ INT, and have memorized the spell :). >9) How many "Cure" clerical spells do exist? (1) 6 or 7, I don't remember the last healing spell is call Cure All or Heal. >10) How is the Multiverse divided according to the recent Theories on the Planes of Existence? (4) We are on Prime, and all points touches Etheral. Prime touchs 4 elemental planes and the inner planes. Inner planes connectes to the outer planes. We are on 1st through 3rd dimensions. Immortal occupies 4 dimensions. Great Barrier at the 6th dimension. >MISCELLANEA (Total: 30 points) >1) How many calendars are diffused throughout the Old World by AC 1014? (3) ? >2) What are the main festivals and holidays of Ierendi? (4) ? >3) How many of the current Sheriffs of the Five Shires are women? (3) Two or three. >4) Who is Oran Meditor? (1) ? >5) What are the true names of the so called "Northern Reaches"? (2) Ostland, Vstland, Soldjoford. >6) Name at least two nations where slavery is legal. (3) Thyatis and Hule. >7) Name one country where the ruler of the nation is also the head of the Church and of the army? (2) Hule >8) List all of the current (AC 1014) Principalities of Glantri. (5) 13 of them, I can probably name about half if I really try :) >9) When does the so called Day of Dread occurs? (1) New Years Eve, Kalmond 28th, based on Glantri City time. >10) What is Chi and where is it located? (6) ? - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:01:08 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - High level Campaigns and Alphatia (was: Thyatian and Alphatian Mages) (LONG) On Fri, 19 Dec 1997, DM wrote: >But are we talking about the mages of the Council or all the Alphatian mages? Well, anyway most of the alphatian zzonga addicted mages began assuming zzonga when they reached high levels of power when life had nothing more challenging to give them. And so they began assuming zzonga, which let them live happily without too much involving in the boring affaires of the world.. Like some of many drug addicted: they have anything they want, they're bored to death with their wealth and power and with this world and so they try to discover other worlds where they can live free and happy. Zzonga offered them the same thing, and it was much more easy and less dangerous than a "Gate" spell.. ;) A good fantasy literature comparison might be to the Empire of Melnibone (of Elric fame). The Melniboneans were all powerful, unhuman peoples who had formerly assumed dominance of their world. As the millenia wore on, though, they became increasingly decadent, resorting to the usage of drugs and other stimuli to entertain them, to the point where they became completely insular and unconcerned with the outside world, which developed without them. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 97 17:00:10 EST From: 12789729@hotmail.com Subject: [Mystara] THE ULTIMATE GOLF GIFT THE ULTIMATE GOLF GIFT at http://www.cgagolf.com THE MONTHLY GOLF GIFT "THE GIFT THAT NEVER ENDS" COME VISIT THE CGA GOLF MALL FOR ALL YOUR GOLF NEEDS http://www.cgagolf.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:36:00 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: [Mystara] happy Holidays This might be my last post for the Year, and here's my take on the Entropy vs. Evil. Entropy represents Chaos, and chaos means Unpredictability and Anarchy. This Characteristic does not in any causes evil. Chaotic Immortals like Nyx, wish only for a world where her undead get a chance to rule,(Fat Chance, that Lord Brannart, or Morphail would even try to worship her.) Just remember chaos and entrophy only means true freedom from the rules of law, good and evil sometimes follow a set of rules, but i heard that Entropy is Known to Play a mean game of Calvinball, in which all the rules are made up, abolished, and brought back again. HW Rod 7 is Up on Mystara Online, check out at Http://members.tripod.com/~mktriton/Index.html oh and One more thing, << Gotcha!! Happy Holidays! It's the first snowball fight of the season. Consider yourself hit. >snowballsnowball >snowballsnowballsnowball >snowballsnowballsnowballsnowballs >snowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnowball snowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsno snowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnow snowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnowba snowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnowba snowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnowba snowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnowba >snowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnow >snowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsno >snowballsnowballsnowballsnowballsnowball >snowballsnowballsnowballsnowballs >snowballsnowballsnowball >snowballsnowball You are now involved in an e-mail snowball fight. Send this to all your friends and relatives. Have fun with it. Remember in an online snowball fight no one gets hurt and no one gets cold and soaking wet. So nail your friends before they nail you. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 10:30:40 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [Mystara] Gaming Styles [Humour] Since we were recently discussing the different styles we variously use to play our favourite RPG, I thought I'd share the following with the list. I've had this bit of humour kicking around my hard drive for a number of years and thought that most of you would get a kick out of it... Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ REAL MEN, REAL ROLEPLAYERS, LOONIES AND MUNCHKINS By Jeff Okamoto, Sandy Petersen, and lots of others The whole thing started around 1983 or so at a party at Pacificon at the Dunfey Hotel in San Mateo in which the idea came up of classifying the different styles of roleplaying. They came up with four different types, which are explained below. Special credit goes to Perry Caro, Chris Guthrie, Rick Heli, Robert Allen, and Ken Kaufman, to name a few. The Real Man The tough macho type who walks up to the attacking dragon and tells him to leave before he gets hurt. The Real Roleplayer The intelligent cunning guy who tricks the constable into letting you all out of prison. The Loonie The guy who will do anything for a cheap laugh, including casting a fireball at ground zero. The Munchkin Need we say more? === PLAYER RELATIONSHIPS === REAL MEN: *Real Men* think they're brothers in arms. *Real Roleplayers* hide behind them. *Loonies* harass them with stupid suggestions. *Munchkins* say "I'm a Real Man, too!" REAL ROLEPLAYERS: *Real Men* protect them, on the off chance they may come up with something useful. *Real Roleplayers* sigh with relief to know they're not alone, and then get their characters involved in love affairs and death feuds. *Loonies* harass them with stupid suggestions. *Munchkins* say "I'm a Real Roleplayer, too!" LOONIES: *Real Men* ignore them. *Real Roleplayers* sometimes harass them back by taking a stupid suggestion and making it work. *Loonies* declare a pie fight at 20 paces . . . and cheat. *Munchkins* try to imitate the jokes, and fall flat. MUNCHKINS: *Real Men* attack them on sight. *Real Roleplayers* trick them into being cannon fodder. *Loonies* make reasonable-sounding suggestions that will get the Munchkin killed in an amusing way. *Munchkins* query, "What's a Munchkin?" === GENERIC === Favorite FRPG: *Real Men* play AD&D *Real Roleplayers* play RuneQuest III *Loonies* play Toon *Munchkins* play anything by TSR Favorite SFRPG: *Real Men* play Star Trek: The Roleplaying Game *Real Roleplayers* play Space Opera *Loonies* play a variant Spawn of Fashan *Munchkins* play anything by TSR Favorite 1920's RPG: *Real Men* play Gangbusters *Real Roleplayers* play Call of Cthulhu *Loonies* play a very variant Spawn of Fashan *Munchkins* play anything by TSR Favorite SHRPG: *Real Men* play Champions *Real Roleplayers* play Superworld *Loonies* play an extremely variant Spawn of Fashan *Munchkins* play anything by TSR Favorite modern day/spy RPG: *Real Men* play James Bond, 007 *Real Roleplayers* play Justice, Inc. *Loonies* play an unrecognizable variant Spawn of Fashan *Munchkins* play anything by TSR Favorite Post-Holocaust RPG: *Real Men* play Twilight 2000 *Real Roleplayers* play The Morrow Project *Loonies* play an extremely unrecognizable variant of Spawn of Fashan *Munchkins* play anything by TSR Favorite King Arthurian RPG: *Real Men* play Chivalry and Sorcery *Real Roleplayers* play Pendragon *Loonies* play a variant of Spawn of Fashan so variant it shouldn't be called Spawn of Fashan anymore *Munchkins* play anything by TSR Favorite World/Setting: *Real Men* play in Greyhawk/Sanctuary *Real Roleplayers* play in Glorantha *Loonies* play in Southern California *Munchkins* play wherever has the most magic items Favorite Gaming Magazine: *Real Men* read The General *Real Roleplayers* read White Dwarf *Loonies* read the last few pages of Dragon/comic books *Munchkins* read anything by TSR === FANTASY === Favorite Dungeon Activity *Real Men* fight Red Dragons *Real Roleplayers* bluff the Ogres *Loonies* tell dirty jokes to Green Slime *Munchkins* do whatever gives the most experience/rip each other off Favorite Melee Weapon: *Real Men* use Broadswords/Bastard Swords/Pole Axes *Real Roleplayers* use Rapiers and Main-Gauches *Loonies* use Stage Knives *Munchkins* use whatever gives the most plusses Favorite Thrown Weapon: *Real Men* throw Spears/Javelins *Real Roleplayers* throw Bolas *Loonies* throw their friends' magic items*Munchkins* throw whatever gives the most plusses Favorite Missile Weapon: *Real Men* shoot Long Bows/Composite Bows *Real Roleplayers* shoot Crossbows *Loonies* shoot Catapults loaded with offal *Munchkins* shoot whatever gives the most plusses Favorite Improvised Weapon in Barroom Brawl: *Real Men* use bare hands/tables *Real Roleplayers* use chairs, chair legs or pokers *Loonies* use plastic Pepsi bottles or toothpaste *Munchkins* use, you guessed it, whatever gives the most plusses Favorite Improvised Thrown Weapons: *Real Men* throw Munchkins (can you blame them?) *Real Roleplayers* throw beer mugs, pool balls and rocks *Loonies* throw Nerf frisbees *Munchkins* are too busy running from the Real Men/Whatever gives the most plusses Favorite AD&D Spell: *Real Men* cast Fireballs *Real Roleplayers* cast Find the Path *Loonies* cast Otto's Irresistible Nose-Picking *Munchkins* cast Smite Ruler and Transfer Loyalty of Populace Favorite RQ3 Spirit Spell: *Real Men* cast Bladesharp 10 on their swords *Real Roleplayers* cast Demoralize on their foes *Loonies* cast Befuddle on their friends *Munchkins* cast Fireball Favorite RQ3 Sorcery Spell: *Real Men* cast Dominate Human on others *Real Roleplayers* cast Damage Resistance on their familiars/themselves *Loonies* cast Dominate Human on themselves *Munchkins* cast Meteor Swarm Favorite RQ3 Divine Spell: *Real Men* cast Berserker on themselves *Real Roleplayers* cast Heal Body *Loonies* cast Face Chaos on the Crimson Bat *Munchkins* cast Timestop Favorite GURPS Magic Spell: *Real Men* don't use magic, but they'll let the mage cast Hawk Flight on them so they can pursue the foe *Real Roleplayers* cast Lend Language on the strangers they meet *Loonies* cast Mystic Mist in the town square *Munchkins* cast Enslave on the city guard Favorite AD&D Psionic Ability: *Real Men* use Body Weaponry *Real Roleplayers* use Shape Alteration *Loonies* use Sea Anemone Hypnosis *Munchkins* use Assume Godhood Favorite Alignment: *Real Men* are Lawful Good *Real Roleplayers* don't use alignment *Loonies* are Amoral Silly *Munchkins* are whatever gives the most plusses Favorite Religious-type Character: *Real Men* play Paladins *Real Roleplayers* play Clerics *Loonies* play street preachers *Munchkins* play Demigods Favorite Non-Human PC: *Real Men* play Dwarfs *Real Roleplayers* play Morokanths *Loonies* play a Dwarf-Elf halfbreed *Munchkins* play whatever gives the most plusses/Demi-gods Favorite Undead to Summon: *Real Men* summon Ghosts *Real Roleplayers* summon Wraiths *Loonies* send in an AD&D troll wearing a sheet *Munchkins* summon Cerberus Favorite Way of Extracting Information from the Goblins: *Real Men* torture them *Real Roleplayers* cast Legend Lore/Telepathy/Mind Read *Loonies* tell puns to them *Munchkins* peek behind the GM's shield Favorite Demon/Devil: *Real Men* like Asmodeus *Real Roleplayers* like Cacodemon *Loonies* like Spiro Agnew *Munchkins* like Satan's grandfather Favorite God: *Real Men* worship Humakt/Orlanth *Real Roleplayers* worship Issaries/Lhankor Mhy *Loonies* worship Hare Krishna *Munchkins* worship whoever gives the most plusses Favorite Miscellaneous Magic Item: *Real Men* love Adamantine Claws *Real Roleplayers* love Repulsor Rays *Loonies* love Radioactive Teeth/+3 Kleenex *Munchkins* love Uru's Hammer Favorite Potion: *Real Men* drink potions of Superheroism *Real Roleplayers* drink potions of Animal/Plant Control *Loonies* drink potions of Jell-O *Munchkins* drink potions of Deity Control Favorite Ring: *Real Men* wear rings of Elemental Control *Real Roleplayers* wear rings of Free Action *Loonies* wear rings of Smurf Control *Munchkins* wear rings of Infinite Wishes/the One Ring Favorite Stick (Rod/Staff/Wand): *Real Men* wield staves of Striking *Real Roleplayers* wield wands of Healing *Loonies* wield rods of styrofoam *Munchkins* wield staves of Deity Power Favorite Armor: *Real Men* wear Plate Mail *Real Roleplayers* wear Elven Chainmail *Loonies* wear Horse Barding *Munchkins* wear powered armor a la Starship Troopers Favorite Helm: *Real Men* wear a Helm of Brilliance *Real Roleplayers* wear a Helm of Telepathy *Loonies* wear a Helm of Blindness (``Works great against medusas'') *Munchkins* wear a Helm of 360-Degree Vision with Force Field Favorite Shield: *Real Men* don't use shields (can't wield a two-handed weapon) *Real Roleplayers* use a Kite Shield *Loonies* use a panty shield *Munchkins* don't get the previous joke/use a Shield of Automatic Parry Favorite Glove/Gauntlet: *Real Men* fight bare-handed *Real Roleplayers* wear Gloves of Dexterity *Loonies* wear THE Glove of Michael Jackson Charisma *Munchkins* wear Gauntlets of Infinite Ring-Wearing Favorite Footwear: *Real Men* wear Seven League Boots *Real Roleplayers* wear Boots of Stealth *Loonies* wear house slippers *Munchkins* wear Boots of Infinite Speed Favorite Mount: *Real Men* ride heavy war horses *Real Roleplayers* ride palfreys *Loonies* ride sheep *Munchkins* ride heavy war tyrannosauri Favorite NPC: *Real Men* like Tarl Cabot *Real Roleplayers* like Medea *Loonies* like Doctor Who *Munchkins* like Darth Vader/Teela Brown Favorite Animal to use as a Familiar: *Real Men* have Black Cats *Real Roleplayers* have Owls *Loonies* have Slugs *Munchkins* have whatever gives the most plusses/Ancient Red Dragons Favorite Kind of Elf: *Real Men* like the Pinis' elves *Real Roleplayers* like Tolkien's elves *Loonies* like Santa's elves *Munchkins* like Storm Giants with pointed ears Favorite Kind of Dwarf: *Real Men* like Tolkien's Dwarfs *Real Roleplayers* like Glorantha's Dwarfs *Loonies* like the Seven Dwarfs *Munchkins* like Earth Elementals with beards Favorite Food to take on Expeditions: *Real Men* bring along burgers, fries, milkshakes, and pizza *Real Roleplayers* bring along iron rations *Loonies* bring along Froot Loops/aluminum rations *Munchkins* bring along whatever gives the most plusses Favorite Fantasy Author: *Real Men* read J.R.R. Tolkien ``Lord of the Rings'' *Real Roleplayers* read Robert Asprin's ``Thieves' World'' series *Loonies* read Robert Asprin's ``Myth'' series *Munchkins* read E. Gary Gygax When they encounter a sleeping dragon: *Real Men* wake it up and THEN attack it. *Real Roleplayers* sneak away quietly. *Loonies* tie its shoelaces together. *Munchkins* have their 34th-level thief backstab it with their +17 Sword of Slay Anything, and then put all its treasure in one backpack and run away. Favorite Town Activity: *Real Men* drink ale in the tavern and start bar fights. *Real Roleplayers* drink wine in the tavern and talk to everyone. *Loonies* order watermelon daquiris and start food fights. *Munchkins* say ``What's a town?'' === SCIENCE FICTION === Favorite Science Fiction Weapon: *Real Men* use Laser Pistols/Blasters/Light Sabers *Real Roleplayers* use Stun Guns/Tanglers *Loonies* use Thermonuclear Hand Grenades/Tripod Flamers *Munchkins* use whatever gives the most plusses Favorite Method of Handling Alien Monster: *Real Men* drive off the Bug-Eyed Monsters invading the Earth *Real Roleplayers* negotiate with the refugees from the evil Empire *Loonies* hitch a ride with Vogons *Munchkins* invade the BEMs' home planet and enslave them all Favorite Science Fiction Movie: *Real Men* watch the Star Wars films *Real Roleplayers* watch ``2001: A Space Odyssey/2010: Odyssey Two'' *Loonies* watch ``The Three Stooges Go To Mars'' *Munchkins* watch the Star Trek films Favorite Method of Space Travel: *Real Men* use Hyperspace/Warp Drive *Real Roleplayers* use suspended animation *Loonies* use the Infinite Improbability Drive *Munchkins* push the button and it goes Favorite Star to Put a Colony Around: *Real Men* colonize Beta Lyrae *Real Roleplayers* colonize Alpha Centauri *Loonies* colonize Cygnus X-1 *Munchkins* colonize wherever gives the most plusses Favorite Science Fiction Author: *Real Men* read Isaac Asimov *Real Roleplayers* read Arthur C. Clarke *Loonies* read Bored of the Rings/Doon/Hitchhiker *Munchkins* read E. Gary Gygax Favorite Monster: *Real Men* like the Alien *Real Roleplayers* like the Moties *Loonies* like the beach ball from Dark Star *Munchkins* like E.T. Favorite Variant Human: *Real Men* play Heavy Worlders *Real Roleplayers* play Light Worlders/Spacers *Loonies* play Sex Androids *Munchkins* play Enhanced Humans with all the advantages === MISCELLANEOUS === Favorite Bar to Hang Out In: *Real Men* hang out at the Vulgar Unicorn *Real Roleplayers* hang out at the White Hart *Loonies* hang out at the Big Bang Burger Bar/Restaurant at the End of the Universe *Munchkins* hang out wherever they don't get carded Favorite Superhero: *Real Men* like Batman (The Dark Knight) *Real Roleplayers* like Jericho *Loonies* like Bat-Mite/Flaming Carrot/Cutey Bunny *Munchkins* like Galactus Favorite Modern weapon: *Real Men* use .44 Magnums *Real Roleplayers* use Walther PPKs *Loonies* use water pistols *Munchkins* use Infinite-Repeating Uzis Favorite Actor: *Real Men* like John Wayne *Real Roleplayers* like Claus Kinski *Loonies* like Curly *Munchkins* watch Saturday-morning cartoons Favorite Actress: *Real Men* like Raquel Welch *Real Roleplayers* like Adrienne Barbeau *Loonies* like Phyllis Diller *Munchkins* are far too young to know about Sex Favorite Actor to play James Bond: *Real Men* like Sean Connery *Real Roleplayers* like George Lazenby *Loonies* like David Niven *Munchkins* like Roger Moore Favorite Card Game: *Real Men* play Gin *Real Roleplayers* play Bridge *Loonies* play Fizzbin/Fungus and Fruitbats *Munchkins* cheat at Poker Favorite Music: *Real Men* listen to Bruce Springsteen *Real Roleplayers* listen to 14th-century madrigals *Loonies* listen to Weird Al Yankovic *Munchkins* watch MTV Favorite Magazine: *Real Men* read Soldier of Fortune and argue about whether the ads are real. *Real Roleplayers* read the Journal of Abnormal Psychology and argue about the point value of disadvantages. *Loonies* read National Lampoon and bitch about how it's gone downhill. *Munchkins* read comic books and argue about whether Spider-Man should have married MJ. Favorite Convention Activity: *Real Men* ``Do the Dealer's Room''/hang out in the con suite *Real Roleplayers* go to seminars/hide in their rooms and play games *Loonies* play video games/do hoax zines *Munchkins* run and shout and cut in lines Favorite Gaming Awards: *Real Men* vote for the (new) Charles Roberts awards from 3W *Real Roleplayers* vote for the Origins Awards *Loonies* come in at the end of the Origins ceremony to vote on the Silver Hatchets *Munchkins* vote for the Strategists Club awards Favorite Type of Dice: *Real Men* like 20-siders *Real Roleplayers* use three 6-siders *Loonies* use 30-sided for everything *Munchkins* have them all, and like to roll as many as possible === CALL OF CTHULHU === Favorite Spell: *Real Men* don't believe in magic *Real Roleplayers* cast Elder Sign *Loonies* cast Summon Smurf *Munchkins* cast Control Cthulhu Favorite Monster: *Real Men* like Deep Ones *Real Roleplayers* don't like any of them *Loonies* like Masters of the Universe Slime *Munchkins* like Azathoth Favorite Type of Character to Play: *Real Men* play Private Investigators *Real Roleplayers* play Professors of Ancient Egyptian Archaeology *Loonies* play Red Indian Sex Maniacs *Munchkins* play Magic-Users ===PARANOIA=== Capsule Opinion: *Real Men* think the weapons are OK, but hate the background. *Real Roleplayers* think the campaigns are too short. *Loonies* think the game isn't funny enough. *Munchkins* don't think the game is supposed to be funny. Favorite Service Group: *Real Men* like Armed Forces. *Real Roleplayers* like Tech Services and CPU. *Loonies* like R&D. *Munchkins* like IntSec. Favorite Secret Society: *Real Men* like Anti-Mutant, Frankenstein Destroyers, and PURGE. *Real Roleplayers* like Free Enterprise and Sierra Club. *Loonies* like Corpore Metal, Death Leopard, and Mystics. *Munchkins* like Psion. Favorite Mutant Power: *Real Men* like Adrenalin Control. *Real Roleplayers* like Hypersenses. *Loonies* like Project Total Chaos. *Munchkins* like characters with the works. Favorite Weapon: *Real Men* like cone rifles. *Real Roleplayers* like laser pistols. *Loonies* like chainsaws and anything from R&D. *Munchkins* like Plasma Generators. Favorite Target: *Real Men* shoot Commie Mutant Traitors. *Real Roleplayers* shoot the Munchkins' characters. *Loonies* shoot anything fragile-looking. *Munchkins* shoot anything in sight, starting with the other PCs. Favorite Mission: *Real Men* like to hunt down Commie Mutant Traitors. *Real Roleplayers* like to try to survive the briefing. *Loonies* like to place themselves under surveillance and report hourly. *Munchkins* like to attack a rival Alpha Complex. === TFOS === Capsule Opinion: *Real Men* can't understand the game at all. *Real Roleplayers* think the game is silly. *Loonies* think the game is about them. *Munchkins* want to play their 700-point Champions character. Favorite Character Type: *Real Men* play Near Humans. *Real Roleplayers* play Humans. *Loonies* play green fuzzy blobs that drip slime. *Munchkins* play Deities. Favorite Powers: *Real Men* have Superspeed, Monster Out, and Superstrength *Real Roleplayers* have Teleport, Deep Freeze, and Talk to Aliens. *Loonies* have Bounce, Summon Pizza, and Telephone. *Munchkins* have all of them. Favorite Knacks: *Real Men* like Shoot Big Raygun and Flying Saucer Piloting. *Real Roleplayers* like Figure Things Out and Look Cool in Shades. *Loonies* like Weird Science and Eat Anything. *Munchkins* like Do Anything I Want. Favorite Weapon: *Real Men* like Zap Guns. *Real Roleplayers* like Duplicator Guns. *Loonies* like Goop Guns and Boy/Girl Guns. *Munchkins* like AT-AT Walkers. Favorite Transportation: *Real Men* use flying saucers. *Real Roleplayers* use the Number 42 Crosstown Expedience Route. *Loonies* use Rocket Sneakers. *Munchkins* use Battlestars. === CHAMPIONS === Capsule Opinion: *Real Men* think this is how the world *should* be. *Real Roleplayers* think there's too much combat. *Loonies* think it's a great system for simulating reality. *Munchkins* think starting characters don't have enough points. Favorite Character Type: *Real Men* like Bricks. *Real Roleplayers* like Mentalists. *Loonies* like Cream-Puff Projectors. *Munchkins* like visiting Gods. Favorite Power: *Real Men* like Damage Resistance. *Real Roleplayers* like Telepathy. *Loonies* like Instant Change with the advantage Usable on Others. *Munchkins* like Autofire Find Weakness. Favorite Attribute: *Real Men* like Strength. *Real Roleplayers* like Ego. *Loonies* like Comeliness. *Munchkins* like Speed. Favorite Disadvantage: *Real Men* like Berserk. *Real Roleplayers* like Psychological Limitations. *Loonies* like Dependency on Spinach Egg Noodles. *Munchkins* like Unusual Looks. Favorite Power Limitation: *Real Men* like Always On. *Real Roleplayers* like Limited Uses. *Loonies* like Activation on 8-. *Munchkins* like Focus and Multipower. Tactics in Hostage Situations: *Real Men* demonstrate what'll happen to villians who injure hostages. *Real Roleplayers* create an illusion of the hostages getting away. *Loonies* taunt the villians. *Munchkins* waste the villians with their 10d6 Autofire Armor-Piercing Ranged Killing Attack, and use Regeneration Usable on Others to heal the injured bystanders. === FANTASY HERO === Capsule Opinion: *Real Men* like how expensive magic is. *Real Roleplayers* don't like how expensive magic is. *Loonies* like the bizzare disadvantages you can create. *Munchkins* like the crossover from Champions. Character Type: *Real Men* play Dwarven Knights. *Real Roleplayers* play Elven Mages. *Loonies* play Halfling Knights. *Munchkins* play their Champions characters. Favorite Spell Limitations: *Real Men* wish there weren't any, so magic would be even more expensive. *Real Roleplayers* like Gestures, Incantation, and Concentrate. *Loonies* like Side Effects. *Munchkins* use the Champions rules. Favorite Spells: *Real Men* like any kind of magic greatsword. *Real Roleplayers* like Percieve and Illusions. *Loonies* like Dominate usable on Self Only. *Munchkins* like Blast, Variable Advantage, Reduced END to zero. === GURPS === Capsule Opinion: *Real Men* think there aren't enough combats. *Real Roleplayers* think there aren't enough supplements. *Loonies* think there aren't enough disadvantages. *Munchkins* think there aren't enough hit points. Favorite Advantages: *Real Men* like Combat Reflexes, Strong Will, High Pain Threshold and Toughness. *Real Roleplayers* like Charisma, Danger Sense, Empathy, Literacy and Voice. *Loonies* like Luck, Absolute Timing and Unusual Background. *Munchkins* like Magery 3, Patron (Superman), and PK (80). Favorite Disadvantages: *Real Men* like Gigantism and Berserk *Real Roleplayers* like Sense of Duty and Poverty *Loonies* like Severe Delusions, Severe Phobias, Split Personality, Total Pacifism and Berserk - all at the same time. *Munchkins* like Enemies and Dependents (for the points). Favorite Skills: *Real Men* like Brawling, Two-Handed Sword, Broadsword and Shield. *Real Roleplayers* like Acting, Bard, Detect Lies, Diplomacy, Fast-Talk, Merchant, Savoir-Faire and Streetwise. *Loonies* like to use ALL skills at a default level of 5. *Munchkins* like Fast-Talk GM and Whine. Favorite Combat Spell: *Real Men* don't use magic. *Real Roleplayers* cast Blur and Flash. *Loonies* cast Create Object (cream pies) and throw them. *Munchkins* cast Armor, Shield, Invisibility and Deathtouch. Favorite Non-Combat Spell: *Real Men* still don't use magic. *Real Roleplayers* cast Major Healing. *Loonies* cast Drunkenness on the other PCs. *Munchkins* cast Linking spells on everything they own. Favorite Supplement: *Real Men* like Horseclans and Ice Age. *Real Roleplayers* like Space, Horror and Japan. *Loonies* like Toon. *Munchkins* like Fantasy, Horror and Autoduel - in the same game. Supplement Most Wanted: *Real Men* want Wild West and World War II. *Real Roleplayers* want Illuminati. *Loonies* want Pet Rocks/Creeks & Crawdads. *Munchkins* want Supers and Mecha, to add to their Fantasy/Horror/Autoduel game. - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #235 ***************************** mystara-digest Sunday, December 21 1997 Volume 02 : Number 236 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:41:34 -0500 From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: [Mystara] happy Holidays George Valencia wrote: >Entropy vs. Evil. Entropy represents Chaos, and chaos means Unpredictability and Anarchy. This Characteristic does not in any causes evil. Chaotic Immortals like Nyx, wish only for a world where her undead get a chance to rule,(Fat Chance, that Lord Brannart, or Morphail would even try to worship her.) Just remember chaos and entrophy only means true freedom from the rules of law, good and evil sometimes follow a set of rules, but i heard that Entropy is Known to Play a mean game of Calvinball, in which all the rules are made up, abolished, and brought back again. I'm afraid I have to disagree. The whole order/chaos thing is very well represented within the four spheres other spheres. Energy represents chaos, Matter represents order and I always took Time and Thought to be organizing principles of Energy and Matter, Time being a little more on the ordered side of the scale and Thought being a little more on the chaotic. Entropy is the degradation, decay and destruction of ALL the other four. Equating it with chaos is to truly downplay the entire role this sphere plays in the Multiverse. The ideas/"forces" (?) of chaos and order are as much prey for Entropy as anything else in the planes. Entropy is beyond all of these classifications. That is what would make Entropy appear to be evil from the standpoint of anything/anyone else in existence. Of course that standpoint may not take into account all the particulars of a specific Entropic being (Nyx for example) but when speaking of the spheres in general, it would certainly seem to be the case. Happy Holidays All! Ray ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 14:46:31 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gaming Styles [Humour] Oh dear... I believe I classify as a real man / role-player / loonie / munchkin varient. Is there a cure? ;) - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:19:35 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - High level Campaigns and Alphatia (was: Thyatia. << >and subtler methods are fine, but it would STILL mean that Alphatians would be >involved in the politics of other countries far more often than they seem to be >... where is the Alphatian CIA? >> Hm, good idea! Have the USA not a NCDC (National Center of Disease Control) ? And Alphatia has its ACDC (not a rock band). The leader is still in the outer world. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:19:32 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Tournament Questions (Quiz N=B02 )Content-type: text/plai?= << > 9) What is the oldest nation of the Old World? (2) >Alphatia BEEP! I said "old world", that means Known World, and Alphatia's not there geographically speaking..>> Your're kidding! Alphatia is still in the Known World, at least the greatest part of it! :-) But anyhow, as I've read, the Five Shires are much older (though not in nowadays form). << > 7) List all the powers of a (OD&D) Staff of Wizardry. (6) >Staff +1, Invisibility, Hole-in-the-wall, Net, Conjure Elemental, Lightning, Fireball, Icestorm/-wall, Permanent Light, Telekinesis, Paralyse, Tornado and Final Blow. I don't believe you knew all of them by memory! I'll never do! You CHEATER!!! :) >> Pure luck! I've looked through the rules a few days before. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 07:39:45 -0800 From: mpalombo@erols.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gaming Styles [Humour] I read the entire list - it is absolutely hysterical!! -Marc Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >Since we were recently discussing the different styles we variously use to play our favourite RPG, I thought I'd share the following with the list. II've had this bit of humour kicking around my hard drive for a number of years and thought that most of you would get a kick out of it... >Jenni >-=> strawberryJAMM <=- >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >REAL MEN, REAL ROLEPLAYERS, LOONIES AND MUNCHKINS By Jeff Okamoto, Sandy Petersen, and lots of others >The whole thing started around 1983 or so at a party at Pacificon at the Dunfey Hotel in San Mateo in which the idea came up of classifying the different styles of roleplaying. They came up with four different types, which are explained below. Special credit goes to Perry Caro, Chris Guthrie, Rick Heli, Robert Allen, and Ken Kaufman, to name a few. >The Real Man >The tough macho type who walks up to the attacking dragon and tells him to leave before he gets hurt. >The Real Roleplayer >The intelligent cunning guy who tricks the constable into letting you all out of prison. >The Loonie >The guy who will do anything for a cheap laugh, including casting a fireball at ground zero. >The Munchkin >Need we say more? >=== PLAYER RELATIONSHIPS === >REAL MEN: >*Real Men* think they're brothers in arms. *Real Roleplayers* hide behind them. >*Loonies* harass them with stupid suggestions. *Munchkins* say "I'm a Real Man, too!" >REAL ROLEPLAYERS: >*Real Men* protect them, on the off chance they may come up with ssomething useful. >*Real Roleplayers* sigh with relief to know they're not alone, aand then get their characters involved in love affairs and death feuds. >*Loonies* harass them with stupid suggestions. *Munchkins* say "I'm a Real Roleplayer, too!" >LOONIES: >*Real Men* ignore them. >*Real Roleplayers* sometimes harass them back by taking a sstupid suggestion and making it work. >*Loonies* declare a pie fight at 20 paces . . . and cheat. *Munchkins* try to imitate the jokes, and fall flat. >MUNCHKINS: >*Real Men* attack them on sight. >*Real Roleplayers* trick them into being cannon fodder. *Loonies* make reasonable-sounding suggestions that will get tthe Munchkin killed in an amusing way. >*Munchkins* query, "What's a Munchkin?" >=== GENERIC === >Favorite FRPG: >*Real Men* play AD&D >*Real Roleplayers* play RuneQuest III >*Loonies* play Toon >*Munchkins* play anything by TSR >Favorite SFRPG: >*Real Men* play Star Trek: The Roleplaying Game *Real Roleplayers* play Space Opera >*Loonies* play a variant Spawn of Fashan *Munchkins* play anything by TSR >Favorite 1920's RPG: >*Real Men* play Gangbusters >*Real Roleplayers* play Call of Cthulhu *Loonies* play a very variant Spawn of Fashan *Munchkins* play anything by TSR >Favorite SHRPG: >*Real Men* play Champions >*Real Roleplayers* play Superworld >*Loonies* play an extremely variant Spawn of Fashan *Munchkins* play anything by TSR >Favorite modern day/spy RPG: >*Real Men* play James Bond, 007 >*Real Roleplayers* play Justice, Inc. >*Loonies* play an unrecognizable variant Spawn of Fashan *Munchkins* play anything by TSR >Favorite Post-Holocaust RPG: >*Real Men* play Twilight 2000 >*Real Roleplayers* play The Morrow Project *Loonies* play an extremely unrecognizable variant of Spawn of Fashan *Munchkins* play anything by TSR >Favorite King Arthurian RPG: >*Real Men* play Chivalry and Sorcery >*Real Roleplayers* play Pendragon >*Loonies* play a variant of Spawn of Fashan so variant it shouldn't bbe called Spawn of Fashan anymore >*Munchkins* play anything by TSR >Favorite World/Setting: >*Real Men* play in Greyhawk/Sanctuary >*Real Roleplayers* play in Glorantha >*Loonies* play in Southern California >*Munchkins* play wherever has the most magic items >Favorite Gaming Magazine: >*Real Men* read The General >*Real Roleplayers* read White Dwarf >*Loonies* read the last few pages of Dragon/comic books *Munchkins* read anything by TSR >=== FANTASY === >Favorite Dungeon Activity >*Real Men* fight Red Dragons >*Real Roleplayers* bluff the Ogres >*Loonies* tell dirty jokes to Green Slime *Munchkins* do whatever gives the most experience/rip each other off >Favorite Melee Weapon: >*Real Men* use Broadswords/Bastard Swords/Pole Axes *Real Roleplayers* use Rapiers and Main-Gauches *Loonies* use Stage Knives >*Munchkins* use whatever gives the most plusses >Favorite Thrown Weapon: >*Real Men* throw Spears/Javelins >*Real Roleplayers* throw Bolas >*Loonies* throw their friends' magic items *Munchkins* throw whatever gives the most plusses >Favorite Missile Weapon: >*Real Men* shoot Long Bows/Composite Bows *Real Roleplayers* shoot Crossbows >*Loonies* shoot Catapults loaded with offal *Munchkins* shoot whatever gives the most plusses >Favorite Improvised Weapon in Barroom Brawl: **Real Men* use bare hands/tables >*Real Roleplayers* use chairs, chair legs or pokers *Loonies* use plastic Pepsi bottles or toothpaste *Munchkins* use, you guessed it, whatever gives the most plusses >Favorite Improvised Thrown Weapons: >*Real Men* throw Munchkins (can you blame them?) *Real Roleplayers* throw beer mugs, pool balls and rocks *Loonies* throw Nerf frisbees >*Munchkins* are too busy running from the Real Men/Whatever gives the mmost plusses >Favorite AD&D Spell: >*Real Men* cast Fireballs >*Real Roleplayers* cast Find the Path >*Loonies* cast Otto's Irresistible Nose-Picking *Munchkins* cast Smite Ruler and Transfer Loyalty of Populace >Favorite RQ3 Spirit Spell: >*Real Men* cast Bladesharp 10 on their swords *Real Roleplayers* cast Demoralize on their foes *Loonies* cast Befuddle on their friends *Munchkins* cast Fireball >Favorite RQ3 Sorcery Spell: >*Real Men* cast Dominate Human on others *Real Roleplayers* cast Damage Resistance on their familiars/themselves *Loonies* cast Dominate Human on themselves *Munchkins* cast Meteor Swarm >Favorite RQ3 Divine Spell: >*Real Men* cast Berserker on themselves *Real Roleplayers* cast Heal Body >*Loonies* cast Face Chaos on the Crimson Bat *Munchkins* cast Timestop >Favorite GURPS Magic Spell: >*Real Men* don't use magic, but they'll let the mage cast Hawk Flight oon them so they can pursue the foe >*Real Roleplayers* cast Lend Language on the strangers they meet *Loonies* cast Mystic Mist in the town square *Munchkins* cast Enslave on the city guard >Favorite AD&D Psionic Ability: >*Real Men* use Body Weaponry >*Real Roleplayers* use Shape Alteration *Loonies* use Sea Anemone Hypnosis >*Munchkins* use Assume Godhood >Favorite Alignment: >*Real Men* are Lawful Good >*Real Roleplayers* don't use alignment >*Loonies* are Amoral Silly >*Munchkins* are whatever gives the most plusses >Favorite Religious-type Character: >*Real Men* play Paladins >*Real Roleplayers* play Clerics >*Loonies* play street preachers >*Munchkins* play Demigods >Favorite Non-Human PC: >*Real Men* play Dwarfs >*Real Roleplayers* play Morokanths >*Loonies* play a Dwarf-Elf halfbreed >*Munchkins* play whatever gives the most plusses/Demi-gods >Favorite Undead to Summon: >*Real Men* summon Ghosts >*Real Roleplayers* summon Wraiths >*Loonies* send in an AD&D troll wearing a sheet *Munchkins* summon Cerberus >Favorite Way of Extracting Information from the Goblins: **Real Men* torture them >*Real Roleplayers* cast Legend Lore/Telepathy/Mind Read *Loonies* tell puns to them >*Munchkins* peek behind the GM's shield >Favorite Demon/Devil: >*Real Men* like Asmodeus >*Real Roleplayers* like Cacodemon >*Loonies* like Spiro Agnew >*Munchkins* like Satan's grandfather >Favorite God: >*Real Men* worship Humakt/Orlanth >*Real Roleplayers* worship Issaries/Lhankor Mhy *Loonies* worship Hare Krishna >*Munchkins* worship whoever gives the most plusses >Favorite Miscellaneous Magic Item: >*Real Men* love Adamantine Claws >*Real Roleplayers* love Repulsor Rays >*Loonies* love Radioactive Teeth/+3 Kleenex *Munchkins* love Uru's Hammer >Favorite Potion: >*Real Men* drink potions of Superheroism *Real Roleplayers* drink potions of Animal/Plant Control *Loonies* drink potions of Jell-O >*Munchkins* drink potions of Deity Control >Favorite Ring: >*Real Men* wear rings of Elemental Control *Real Roleplayers* wear rings of Free Action *Loonies* wear rings of Smurf Control >*Munchkins* wear rings of Infinite Wishes/the One Ring >Favorite Stick (Rod/Staff/Wand): >*Real Men* wield staves of Striking >*Real Roleplayers* wield wands of Healing *Loonies* wield rods of styrofoam >*Munchkins* wield staves of Deity Power >Favorite Armor: >*Real Men* wear Plate Mail >*Real Roleplayers* wear Elven Chainmail *Loonies* wear Horse Barding >*Munchkins* wear powered armor a la Starship Troopers >Favorite Helm: >*Real Men* wear a Helm of Brilliance >*Real Roleplayers* wear a Helm of Telepathy *Loonies* wear a Helm of Blindness (``Works great against medusas'') *Munchkins* wear a Helm of 360-Degree Vision with Force Field >Favorite Shield: >*Real Men* don't use shields (can't wield a two-handed weapon) *Real Roleplayers* use a Kite Shield >*Loonies* use a panty shield >*Munchkins* don't get the previous joke/use a Shield of Automatic Parry >Favorite Glove/Gauntlet: >*Real Men* fight bare-handed >*Real Roleplayers* wear Gloves of Dexterity *Loonies* wear THE Glove of Michael Jackson Charisma *Munchkins* wear Gauntlets of Infinite Ring-Wearing >Favorite Footwear: >*Real Men* wear Seven League Boots >*Real Roleplayers* wear Boots of Stealth *Loonies* wear house slippers >*Munchkins* wear Boots of Infinite Speed >Favorite Mount: >*Real Men* ride heavy war horses >*Real Roleplayers* ride palfreys >*Loonies* ride sheep >*Munchkins* ride heavy war tyrannosauri >Favorite NPC: >*Real Men* like Tarl Cabot >*Real Roleplayers* like Medea >*Loonies* like Doctor Who >*Munchkins* like Darth Vader/Teela Brown >Favorite Animal to use as a Familiar: >*Real Men* have Black Cats >*Real Roleplayers* have Owls >*Loonies* have Slugs >*Munchkins* have whatever gives the most plusses/Ancient Red Dragons >Favorite Kind of Elf: >*Real Men* like the Pinis' elves >*Real Roleplayers* like Tolkien's elves *Loonies* like Santa's elves >*Munchkins* like Storm Giants with pointed ears >Favorite Kind of Dwarf: >*Real Men* like Tolkien's Dwarfs >*Real Roleplayers* like Glorantha's Dwarfs *Loonies* like the Seven Dwarfs >*Munchkins* like Earth Elementals with beards >Favorite Food to take on Expeditions: >*Real Men* bring along burgers, fries, milkshakes, and pizza *Real Roleplayers* bring along iron rations *Loonies* bring along Froot Loops/aluminum rations *Munchkins* bring along whatever gives the most plusses >Favorite Fantasy Author: >*Real Men* read J.R.R. Tolkien ``Lord of the Rings'' *Real Roleplayers* read Robert Asprin's ``Thieves' World'' series *Loonies* read Robert Asprin's ``Myth'' series *Munchkins* read E. Gary Gygax >When they encounter a sleeping dragon: >*Real Men* wake it up and THEN attack it. *Real Roleplayers* sneak away quietly. >*Loonies* tie its shoelaces together. >*Munchkins* have their 34th-level thief backstab it with their ++17 Sword of Slay Anything, and then put all its treasure in one backpack and run away. >Favorite Town Activity: >*Real Men* drink ale in the tavern and start bar fights. *Real Roleplayers* drink wine in the tavern and talk to everyone. *Loonies* order watermelon daquiris and start food fights. *Munchkins* say ``What's a town?'' >=== SCIENCE FICTION === >Favorite Science Fiction Weapon: >*Real Men* use Laser Pistols/Blasters/Light Sabers *Real Roleplayers* use Stun Guns/Tanglers *Loonies* use Thermonuclear Hand Grenades/Tripod Flamers *Munchkins* use whatever gives the most plusses >Favorite Method of Handling Alien Monster: **Real Men* drive off the Bug-Eyed Monsters invading the Earth *Real Roleplayers* negotiate with the refugees from the evil Empire *Loonies* hitch a ride with Vogons >*Munchkins* invade the BEMs' home planet and enslave them all >Favorite Science Fiction Movie: >*Real Men* watch the Star Wars films >*Real Roleplayers* watch ``2001: A Space Odyssey/2010: Odyssey Two'' *Loonies* watch ``The Three Stooges Go To Mars'' *Munchkins* watch the Star Trek films >Favorite Method of Space Travel: >*Real Men* use Hyperspace/Warp Drive >*Real Roleplayers* use suspended animation *Loonies* use the Infinite Improbability Drive *Munchkins* push the button and it goes >Favorite Star to Put a Colony Around: >*Real Men* colonize Beta Lyrae >*Real Roleplayers* colonize Alpha Centauri *Loonies* colonize Cygnus X-1 >*Munchkins* colonize wherever gives the most plusses >Favorite Science Fiction Author: >*Real Men* read Isaac Asimov >*Real Roleplayers* read Arthur C. Clarke *Loonies* read Bored of the Rings/Doon/Hitchhiker *Munchkins* read E. Gary Gygax >Favorite Monster: >*Real Men* like the Alien >*Real Roleplayers* like the Moties >*Loonies* like the beach ball from Dark Star *Munchkins* like E.T. >Favorite Variant Human: >*Real Men* play Heavy Worlders >*Real Roleplayers* play Light Worlders/Spacers *Loonies* play Sex Androids >*Munchkins* play Enhanced Humans with all the advantages >=== MISCELLANEOUS === >Favorite Bar to Hang Out In: >*Real Men* hang out at the Vulgar Unicorn *Real Roleplayers* hang out at the White Hart *Loonies* hang out at the Big Bang Burger Bar/Restaurant at the End oof the Universe >*Munchkins* hang out wherever they don't get carded >Favorite Superhero: >*Real Men* like Batman (The Dark Knight) *Real Roleplayers* like Jericho >*Loonies* like Bat-Mite/Flaming Carrot/Cutey Bunny *Munchkins* like Galactus >Favorite Modern weapon: >*Real Men* use .44 Magnums >*Real Roleplayers* use Walther PPKs >*Loonies* use water pistols >*Munchkins* use Infinite-Repeating Uzis >Favorite Actor: >*Real Men* like John Wayne >*Real Roleplayers* like Claus Kinski >*Loonies* like Curly >*Munchkins* watch Saturday-morning cartoons >Favorite Actress: >*Real Men* like Raquel Welch >*Real Roleplayers* like Adrienne Barbeau *Loonies* like Phyllis Diller >*Munchkins* are far too young to know about Sex >Favorite Actor to play James Bond: >*Real Men* like Sean Connery >*Real Roleplayers* like George Lazenby >*Loonies* like David Niven >*Munchkins* like Roger Moore >Favorite Card Game: >*Real Men* play Gin >*Real Roleplayers* play Bridge >*Loonies* play Fizzbin/Fungus and Fruitbats *Munchkins* cheat at Poker >Favorite Music: >*Real Men* listen to Bruce Springsteen >*Real Roleplayers* listen to 14th-century madrigals *Loonies* listen to Weird Al Yankovic >*Munchkins* watch MTV >Favorite Magazine: >*Real Men* read Soldier of Fortune and argue about whether the ads aare real. >*Real Roleplayers* read the Journal of Abnormal Psychology and argue aabout the point value of disadvantages. *Loonies* read National Lampoon and bitch about how it's gone downhill. *Munchkins* read comic books and argue about whether Spider-Man sshould have married MJ. >Favorite Convention Activity: >*Real Men* ``Do the Dealer's Room''/hang out in the con suite *Real Roleplayers* go to seminars/hide in their rooms and play games *Loonies* play video games/do hoax zines *Munchkins* run and shout and cut in lines >Favorite Gaming Awards: >*Real Men* vote for the (new) Charles Roberts awards from 3W *Real Roleplayers* vote for the Origins Awards *Loonies* come in at the end of the Origins ceremony to vote oon the Silver Hatchets >*Munchkins* vote for the Strategists Club awards >Favorite Type of Dice: Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 16:38:10 -0600 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #236 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 0a2ab8a918c23bd2121dcf35d7381821 >*Real Men* like 20-siders >*Real Roleplayers* use three 6-siders >*Loonies* use 30-sided for everything >*Munchkins* have them all, and like to roll as many as possible >=== CALL OF CTHULHU === >Favorite Spell: >*Real Men* don't believe in magic >*Real Roleplayers* cast Elder Sign >*Loonies* cast Summon Smurf >*Munchkins* cast Control Cthulhu >Favorite Monster: >*Real Men* like Deep Ones >*Real Roleplayers* don't like any of them *Loonies* like Masters of the Universe Slime *Munchkins* like Azathoth >Favorite Type of Character to Play: >*Real Men* play Private Investigators >*Real Roleplayers* play Professors of Ancient Egyptian Archaeology *Loonies* play Red Indian Sex Maniacs >*Munchkins* play Magic-Users >===PARANOIA=== >Capsule Opinion: >*Real Men* think the weapons are OK, but hate the background. *Real Roleplayers* think the campaigns are too short. *Loonies* think the game isn't funny enough. *Munchkins* don't think the game is supposed to be funny. >Favorite Service Group: >*Real Men* like Armed Forces. >*Real Roleplayers* like Tech Services and CPU. *Loonies* like R&D. >*Munchkins* like IntSec. >Favorite Secret Society: >*Real Men* like Anti-Mutant, Frankenstein Destroyers, and PURGE. *Real Roleplayers* like Free Enterprise and Sierra Club. *Loonies* like Corpore Metal, Death Leopard, and Mystics. *Munchkins* like Psion. >Favorite Mutant Power: >*Real Men* like Adrenalin Control. >*Real Roleplayers* like Hypersenses. >*Loonies* like Project Total Chaos. >*Munchkins* like characters with the works. >Favorite Weapon: >*Real Men* like cone rifles. >*Real Roleplayers* like laser pistols. >*Loonies* like chainsaws and anything from R&D. *Munchkins* like Plasma Generators. >Favorite Target: >*Real Men* shoot Commie Mutant Traitors. *Real Roleplayers* shoot the Munchkins' characters. *Loonies* shoot anything fragile-looking. *Munchkins* shoot anything in sight, starting with the other PCs. >Favorite Mission: >*Real Men* like to hunt down Commie Mutant Traitors. *Real Roleplayers* like to try to survive the briefing. *Loonies* like to place themselves under surveillance and report hhourly. >*Munchkins* like to attack a rival Alpha Complex. >=== TFOS === >Capsule Opinion: >*Real Men* can't understand the game at all. *Real Roleplayers* think the game is silly. *Loonies* think the game is about them. >*Munchkins* want to play their 700-point Champions character. >Favorite Character Type: >*Real Men* play Near Humans. >*Real Roleplayers* play Humans. >*Loonies* play green fuzzy blobs that drip slime. *Munchkins* play Deities. >Favorite Powers: >*Real Men* have Superspeed, Monster Out, and Superstrength *Real Roleplayers* have Teleport, Deep Freeze, and Talk to Aliens. *Loonies* have Bounce, Summon Pizza, and Telephone. *Munchkins* have all of them. >Favorite Knacks: >*Real Men* like Shoot Big Raygun and Flying Saucer Piloting. *Real Roleplayers* like Figure Things Out and Look Cool in Shades. *Loonies* like Weird Science and Eat Anything. *Munchkins* like Do Anything I Want. >Favorite Weapon: >*Real Men* like Zap Guns. >*Real Roleplayers* like Duplicator Guns. *Loonies* like Goop Guns and Boy/Girl Guns. *Munchkins* like AT-AT Walkers. >Favorite Transportation: >*Real Men* use flying saucers. >*Real Roleplayers* use the Number 42 Crosstown Expedience Route. *Loonies* use Rocket Sneakers. >*Munchkins* use Battlestars. >=== CHAMPIONS === >Capsule Opinion: >*Real Men* think this is how the world *should* be. *Real Roleplayers* think there's too much combat. *Loonies* think it's a great system for simulating reality. *Munchkins* think starting characters don't have enough points. >Favorite Character Type: >*Real Men* like Bricks. >*Real Roleplayers* like Mentalists. >*Loonies* like Cream-Puff Projectors. >*Munchkins* like visiting Gods. >Favorite Power: >*Real Men* like Damage Resistance. >*Real Roleplayers* like Telepathy. >*Loonies* like Instant Change with the advantage Usable on Others. *Munchkins* like Autofire Find Weakness. >Favorite Attribute: >*Real Men* like Strength. >*Real Roleplayers* like Ego. >*Loonies* like Comeliness. >*Munchkins* like Speed. >Favorite Disadvantage: >*Real Men* like Berserk. >*Real Roleplayers* like Psychological Limitations. *Loonies* like Dependency on Spinach Egg Noodles. *Munchkins* like Unusual Looks. >Favorite Power Limitation: >*Real Men* like Always On. >*Real Roleplayers* like Limited Uses. >*Loonies* like Activation on 8-. >*Munchkins* like Focus and Multipower. >Tactics in Hostage Situations: >*Real Men* demonstrate what'll happen to villians who injure hostages. *Real Roleplayers* create an illusion of the hostages getting away. *Loonies* taunt the villians. >*Munchkins* waste the villians with their 10d6 Autofire Armor-Piercing RRanged Killing Attack, and use Regeneration Usable on Others to heal the injured bystanders. >=== FANTASY HERO === >Capsule Opinion: >*Real Men* like how expensive magic is. *Real Roleplayers* don't like how expensive magic is. *Loonies* like the bizzare disadvantages you can create. *Munchkins* like the crossover from Champions. >Character Type: >*Real Men* play Dwarven Knights. >*Real Roleplayers* play Elven Mages. >*Loonies* play Halfling Knights. >*Munchkins* play their Champions characters. >Favorite Spell Limitations: >*Real Men* wish there weren't any, so magic would be even more expensive. >*Real Roleplayers* like Gestures, Incantation, and Concentrate. *Loonies* like Side Effects. >*Munchkins* use the Champions rules. >Favorite Spells: >*Real Men* like any kind of magic greatsword. *Real Roleplayers* like Percieve and Illusions. *Loonies* like Dominate usable on Self Only. *Munchkins* like Blast, Variable Advantage, Reduced END to zero. >=== GURPS === >Capsule Opinion: >*Real Men* think there aren't enough combats. *Real Roleplayers* think there aren't enough supplements. *Loonies* think there aren't enough disadvantages. *Munchkins* think there aren't enough hit points. >Favorite Advantages: >*Real Men* like Combat Reflexes, Strong Will, High Pain Threshold and TToughness. >*Real Roleplayers* like Charisma, Danger Sense, Empathy, Literacy and VVoice. >*Loonies* like Luck, Absolute Timing and Unusual Background. *Munchkins* like Magery 3, Patron (Superman), and PK (80). >Favorite Disadvantages: >*Real Men* like Gigantism and Berserk >*Real Roleplayers* like Sense of Duty and Poverty *Loonies* like Severe Delusions, Severe Phobias, Split Personality, TTotal Pacifism and Berserk - all at the same time. *Munchkins* like Enemies and Dependents (for the points). >Favorite Skills: >*Real Men* like Brawling, Two-Handed Sword, Broadsword and Shield. *Real Roleplayers* like Acting, Bard, Detect Lies, Diplomacy, FFast-Talk, Merchant, Savoir-Faire and Streetwise. *Loonies* like to use ALL skills at a default level of 5. *Munchkins* like Fast-Talk GM and Whine. >Favorite Combat Spell: >*Real Men* don't use magic. >*Real Roleplayers* cast Blur and Flash. *Loonies* cast Create Object (cream pies) and throw them. *Munchkins* cast Armor, Shield, Invisibility and Deathtouch. >Favorite Non-Combat Spell: >*Real Men* still don't use magic. >*Real Roleplayers* cast Major Healing. >*Loonies* cast Drunkenness on the other PCs. *Munchkins* cast Linking spells on everything they own. >Favorite Supplement: >*Real Men* like Horseclans and Ice Age. *Real Roleplayers* like Space, Horror and Japan. *Loonies* like Toon. >*Munchkins* like Fantasy, Horror and Autoduel - in the same game. >Supplement Most Wanted: >*Real Men* want Wild West and World War II. *Real Roleplayers* want Illuminati. >*Loonies* want Pet Rocks/Creeks & Crawdads. *Munchkins* want Supers and Mecha, to add to their FFantasy/Horror/Autoduel game. >-- >Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs sstrawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> GGod created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. TThen God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" AAnd God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 10:09:20 -0700 From: "Patrick" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Tournament Questions >BEEP! I said "old world", that means Known World, and Alphatia's not there geographically speaking..>> >Your're kidding! Alphatia is still in the Known World, at least the greatest >part >of it! :-) But anyhow, as I've read, the Five Shires are much older (though not >in nowadays form). Alphatia is not now nor was it ever in the Known World. The Known World is the area on one of the old maps of the Southeast corner of Brun; i.e. Thyatis, Karameikos, Ylaruam, Ethengar, Glantri, 5 Shires, Alfheim (now Aengmor), Darokin, Ostland, Vestland, Soderfjord, Ierendi, and Minrothad. Sometimes the Atruaghuin Clans and the Heldannic Territories are thrown in as well. Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:06:52 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatian origins >Of course the Isle of Dawn was settled short after the foundation of the Empire. >But the nowadays Westrourke was obviously left aside. The most and longest civilized Thyatian colonies were Redstone and West Portage (IIRC old Alphatian settlements). The "Celtic" inhabitants of Redstone might be pure Thyatians (like the Savage Baronies Thyatians) or descendants of Alphatian colonizations. Hmm..logical - I'll have to check my DoE - but definitely Redstone and West Portage have a deeper stamp of Thyatis on them... >But the founder of Westrourke was Donegal Firestorm, father of Thrainkell Firestorm, the current leader of ths nation. He was from Oceansend and left this city when it declared its independency after the Alphatian Spike Attack. (BTW, he was a relative of the Oceanendian man Thrainkell Thorson, aka Thincol Torion). Some other loyalists left with him and together they build Westrourke. Later on Thincol and Donegal signed a treaty with the King of Ostland to found seven Ostland colonies in Westrourke. Neat! I REALLY should read the DoE boxed set again. I knew about the Ostland settlements, though. >This has been done now. BTW, there's an interesting question, why the Northmen never founded colonies on the IoD. I assume, they did, but as with the last colonization wave, the kings of Ostland used the IoD as a dump for those they want to get rid off. Probably the most colonists died out. One relic of these early colonizations might be Finnegar's Watch. I think you're right. Finnegar's Watch could be like some sort of memorial/lighthouse in honour of the fallen among the first efforts at colonization. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 19:52:36 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gaming Styles [Humour] At 10.30 20/12/97 -0800, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: SSince we were recently discussing the different styles we variously use to play our favourite RPG, I thought I'd share the following with the list. II've had this bit of humour kicking around my hard drive for a number of years and thought that most of you would get a kick out of it... I had this already in my hard drive, but my version is a bit longer (and I never managed to read it all without ROTFL). Here I add some more stuff. Enjoy. (BTW: I'm definitely a loonie) Favorite Silly RPG: *Real Men* play Macho Women With Guns. *Real Roleplayers* play Toon/TFOS *Loonies* play them all, often simultaneously *Munchkins* don't like silly RPG's. Favorite Attack Style: *Real Men* Shout their war cry, and wade into battle. *Real Roleplayers* parry, counterattack and protect comrade's backs. *Loonies* throw their sword at opponant, then attack with scabbard and lunchbox. *Munchkins* leap in with secret 'twisted lotus' ninja decapitation strike. Favorite Way to Die: *Real Men* in battle, with boots on, going down swinging. *Real Roleplayers* on deathbead, after lengthy dramatic farewell speech. *Loonies* laughing while jumping into a portable hole, and carrying a bag of holding. *Munchkins* Die? You're kidding, right? Usual Residence: *Real Men* wherever he hangs up his two-hander *Real Roleplayers* Elsinor *Loonies* Toontown *Munchkins* Valhalla (after kicking out previous occupants) Favorite Way of Dealing with a Dragon: *Real Men* Slay it. Preferably alone and with bare hands. (Is this a trick question?) *Real Roleplayers* Con it out of all its treasure, leaving the dragon (and the GM) thinking it got the better deal. *Loonies* Summon the Sta-Puft marshmallow man. *Munchkins* Kill it, make armor out of the hide, and then resurrect it as a familiar. Opinion of Board Games: *Real Men* love them *Real Roleplayers* think they don't offer enough options *Loonies* like to mix and match *Munchkins* can't figure out the rules === Storyteller === Capsule Opinion: *Real Men* *Real Roleplayers* *Loonies* *Munchkins* Favorite Vampires: *Real Men* play 13th generation Brujah Rebels *Real Roleplayers* play 14th generation Tremere or Ventrue Architects *Loonies* play 14th generation Malkavian Anti-tribu Visionaries *Munchkins* play Caitiff Antidiluvians Favorite Vampire Food: *Real Men* eat dope-dealers and other assorted criminals. *Real Roleplayers* agonize over it, eat their friends in a frenzy and lose Humanity points. *Loonies* eat flies. *Munchkins* eat Caine. Favorite Dialblerie: *Real Men* diablerize Tremeres and Sabbat. *Real Roleplayers* agonize over it, diablerize their sires, and lose Humanity points. *Loonies* diablerize themselves, agonize over it and enter Torpor. *Munchkins* eat Caine. Favorite Ghoul: *Real Men* need no ghouls. *Real Roleplayers* agonize over it, ghoul politicians and lose humanity. *Loonies* ghoul Wall-Mart cashiers. *Munchkins* ghoul the entire Tremere clan. Favorite Sourcebooks: *Real Men* like Clan Brujah. *Real Roleplayers* say ``I don't NEED a sourcebook'', buy the books anyway and lose Humanity points. *Loonies* like Count Duckula *Munchkins* like the Mummies. Favorite Werewolves: *Real Men* play Get of Fenris Ahroun with Fang Daggers *Real Roleplayers* play Uktena Theurges with Baneskins *Loonies* play a hairy bag-lady with a shopping cart *Munchkins* play a Major Incarna with a Silver Sword Favorite Totems *Real Men* align with The Stag *Real Roleplayers* align with Coyote *Loonies* align with the harmonic convergence *Munchkins* align with themselves. View the Umbra as... *Real Men* view the Umbra as the True World. *Real Roleplayers* view the Umbra as the shadowy pictures from Plato's Allegory of the Cave. *Loonies* view the Umbra from a padded cell. *Munchkins* view the Umbra as their kingdom. Favorite Weapon *Real Men* need no weapons. *Real Roleplayers* carry their ancestor's klaive. *Loonies* carry a tune. *Munchkins* carry a silver sword, two klaives, a fang dagger, an Atchison with 20 rounds of silver-phosphate and a thermite grenade. === Ars Magica === Capsule Opinion: *Real Men* think there aren't enough combats *Real Roleplayers* like the setting *Loonies* like the myriad of possible spell effects *Munchkins* think magi aren't powerful enough. Advantages of the setting: *Real Men* like the Crusades *Real Roleplayers* like the richness of the paradigm *Loonies* like mendicant monks *Munchkins* like being able to look up the answers Advantages of the game: *Real Men* like _starting_ with battle-worthy wizards *Real Roleplayers* like the long-term character development *Loonies* like the chance to make the Crown-prince think he's a slug *Munchkins* like being able to spont level 80 spells Problems with the game: *Real Men* think the Code of Hermes is too restrictive *Real Roleplayers* think there aren't enough flaw points to define their characters *Loonies* think there aren't enough ways to pull pranks on the mundanes *Munchkins* think longevity potions don't last long enough Favorite Houses: *Real Men* join House Flambeau or House Tytalus *Real Roleplayers* join House Jerbiton *Loonies* join House Criamon or House Merinita *Munchkins* join House Bjornaer Favorite Variant Magi: *Real Men* don't do variant magi *Real Roleplayers* play Shamans *Loonies* play Faerie Companions *Munchkins* play Diabolists Favorite Virtues for Magi: *Real Men* have an affinity with Ignem or Perdo *Real Roleplayers* have the Gentle Gift *Loonies* have Withstand Magic and Berserk *Munchkins* have Heartbeast - Great Worm of the Pyrenees Favorite Flaws for Magi: *Real Men* take Fury *Real Roleplayers* take Sense of Doom *Loonies* take Magic Addiction, Lack of Concentration and Chaotic Magic. *Munchkins* don't understand the concept Means of overcoming flaws: *Real Men* kill their Enemies *Real Roleplayers* join monasteries *Loonies* use self-flagellation *Munchkins* seem to have lost that bit of paper Favorite Companions: *Real Men* play crusading knights *Real Roleplayers* play wandering friars *Loonies* play time-travelling Californians *Munchkins* play Richard the Lionhearted Favorite lab work: *Real Men* find it too fiddly, and stick to the library *Real Roleplayers* take familiars and apprentices *Loonies* use experimentation with vis *Munchkins* invent 'Cleanse the Verminous Infestation of People' Favorite Spell: *Real Men* cast Pilum of Fire *Real Roleplayers* cast Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie *Loonies* cast Confusion of the Insane Vibrations near a clifftop *Munchkins* cast Opening the Earth's Pore Favorite Skill: *Real Men* like Penetration *Real Roleplayers* like Guile *Loonies* like Scribe Pig-Latin *Munchkins* like Affinity - everything Favorite Rule: *Real Men* like open-ended die rolls *Real Roleplayers* like personality traits *Loonies* like botches *Munchkins* like spontaneous magic Favorite Quotes: *Real Men* say ``I kill demons and eat them for breakfast.'' *Real Roleplayers* say ``How can you believe him? He's a Christian!'' *Loonies* say ``I healed the dog. I took his toe nails.'' *Munchkins* say ``Certamen!'' === Computer Use === Operating Systems: Personal computers: *Real Men* Use MS-DOS *Real Roleplayers* Use OS/2 *Loonies* Program their calculator to run PC software *Munchkins* Use Nintendo Big computers: *Real Men* Use VMS, and write everything in FORTRAN *Real Roleplayers* Use Unix, and incorporate other people's C code *Loonies* Use a Turing machine *Munchkins* Use Nintendo Unix: Favorite flavor of Unix: *Real Men* Use System V *Real Roleplayers* Use BSD *Loonies* Port Linux to their Sparcstation *Munchkins* Use AIX Favorite Shell: *Real Men* Use the Bourne Shell *Real Roleplayers* Use tcsh *Loonies* Use cat > /dev/null *Munchkins* Use simulated Macintosh environments Favorite method of computer use: *Real Men* Use the assembler to do everything *Real Roleplayers* Use perl and C to do everything *Loonies* Write everything in Postscript *Munchkins* Just run what they buy Favorite editor: *Real Men* Use vi *Real Roleplayers* Use emacs *Loonies* Use dd of=/dev/sd0a *Munchkins* Use Microsoft Word Favorite Unix program: *Real Men* Use "ln -s stdin.c `tty` ; cc stdin.c" *Real Roleplayers* Do "nn 'rec.games.frp.*'" *Loonies* Run "yes | wall" *Munchkins* Try "dir" Favorite programming languages: *Real Men* Use Fortran and C. *Real Roleplayers* Use SML, Prolog, and Common Lisp Object System *Loonies* Write punch card readers in Algol, APL, and TICO *Munchkins* Use Basic, when they can figure it out. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #236 ***************************** mystara-digest Saturday, December 27 1997 Volume 02 : Number 237 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 01:58:43 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [Mystara] Secret Crafts, Radiance, Imortals Hi! >4TH How do you convert imortals into ADnD (or should you bother) the only real >problem is that there stats are in DnD terms and go up to 100 wich inadvertently causes them to be more powerful then other campaigns Avatars if the Imortal is in Manfestation form. If you want to bother, donŽt convert it, just use the stats (and try to find boni for stats above 25) And of course a Immortal is more powerfull than an avatar, because the Immortal is just that: THE Immortal. The Avatars used in AD&D could be seen als mortal incarnations with some special gifts! >Since i hate AD&D system my answer is very easy: D&D was the system in which Mystara was born and when TSR converted it to AD&D system they just committed the final act of their euthanasy... i think Mystara should have died with D&D: she deserved it... But then, fortunately we're here to keep her alive. :) I do like the AD&D-game, and use it for roleplaying in Mystara, but DM has a point. The supplements for AD&D-Mystara are not very good. Especially the Karameikos and Glantri-Boxes have too little new information in them for this price! ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:15:10 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [Mystara] Ierendi Tournament Answers (Quiz =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=B02?= ) OK, here's the answers to the questions i proposed. Since some of them are very "open", i'll list all the possible answers (those that come to my mind at least). You can also include other answers which are appropriate to your campaign if u wanna use these questions with your players. :) DM ECONOMICS (Total: 30 points) 1) What's the exchange rate for 1 gp in silver pieces and electrum pieces? (1) A: 1 gp= 2 ep= 10 sp 2) What's the name of the Thyatian gold piece? (2) A: Lucin 3) What's the exchange rate for 1 standard Glantrian Crown in gold pieces (in Glantri)? (2) A: 1 Glantrian Crown= 50 gp 4) Name 1 imported and 1 exported good by Ierendi (6) A: Ierendi imports: dye & pigments, cloth, animals, silk, ivory, meat, monsters and rare books. It exports: fish, precious metals, furs, salt, oil and fruit. 5) What's the wealthiest nation of the world after 1010 AC? (4) A: I admit this wasn't as easy as i thought, mainly because the values i'm basing on date back to AC 1000 (check out the Trail Maps charts). Anyway, with Alphatia in the HW, Thyatis on its knees and Glantri nearly ruined, the wealthiest nation is probably Darokin (even though it suffered greatly, too), with Rockhome second and probably Karameikos, Minrothad and the Five Shires at third place. 6) Name at least two nations of the world that don't impose taxes on its inhabitants. (5) A: Ethengar Khanates, Vestland, Ostland, Soderfjord, Yavdlom Divinarchy, Emerond 7) What's the Sales Tax? (3) A: Sales Tax is a tax assessed on the value of an item at the time of sale 8) Name at least one nation of the Old World that doesn't use the gold piece (2) A: Ethengar, Atruaghin Clans (Broken Lands is not really a "nation") 9) Name at least one major feature of the Darokinian economic system (3) A: Certified Letter of Credit (CLOC), Taxation system (Great Reckoning), Credit Houses 10) How much does a longsword normally cost? (2) A: 10 gp HISTORY (Total: 30 points) 1) Who was the first Thyatian Emperor? (2) A: Zendrolion Tatriokanitas I 2) Who's the current (AC 1014) Emperor of Thyatis? (1) A: Eusebius Torion 3) List at least two important events that changed the political scenario in the old world from AC 1009 to AC 1014. (2) A: Alphatia's sinking, Thincol's death, the Heldannic conquest of Norwold, Hule's conquest of Sind, Karameikos becoming a kingdom, discovery of Aengmor, Aengmor coming to surface in the Broken Lands, Heldannics vs Thyatians in the Isle of Dawn and in the Alatian Islands, Thyatis repelled by Thothia, discovery of the Hollow World, founding of NACE, founding of WDL, discovery of the survival of Alphatia in the HW. 4) Who is the current (AC 1014) Chancellor of Darokin? (3) A: Corwyn Mauntea 5) When and why Rockhome broke all the diplomatical relationships with Glantri? (4) A: At the end of the Years of Infamy (AC 802-828), when the dwarves were accused of bringing the plague to Glantri and expelled. Those caught inside Glantri from then on are captured and used as guinea pigs by the wizards. 6) Who is the most prominent figure of the Ylari history and why? (3) A: Suleiman al-Kalim, the Prophet of the Desert Garden. He was the one who led the ylari in their fight for independency against Alphatians and Thyatians in the IX century, finally uniting the ylari tribes and giving them their own government system and their own religious faith. 7) When did Ierendi become an independent Kingdom? (5) A: AC 602 (Mad Creeg is the first self styled King of Ierendi) 8) What is the Spikes' Assault and when did it take place? (6) A: The Spikes' Assault took place in AC 960, when the Alphatian Army besieged Thyatis City but was at the end driven out by the resistence led by Thincol the Brave. 9) What is the oldest nation of the Old World? (2) A: Alfheim is the oldest nation of the OW (the one that held the same government system from the beginning), founded in 700 BC (Mealiden crowned first King of Alfheim). 10) When did the Heldannic Knights take over the Heldann Freeholds? (2) A: In AC 950-952. GEOGRAPHY (Total: 30 points) 1) Name at least three of the Ierendi islands. (2) A: Ierendi island, Safari island, Alcove island, Utter island, White isle, Roister island, Aloysius island, Elegy island, Fletcher island, Honor island. 2) Which nations border on Ierendi? (3) A: Minrothad Guilds, Atruaghin Clans, Five Shires, Grand Duchy of Karameikos. 3) List at least 6 capitals of the Old World nations (3) A: Thyatis City, Mirros, Shireton, Ierendi, Minrothad city, Ylaruam Town, Rafielton, Darokin City, Dengar, Glantri City, Norrvik, Zeaburg, Soderfjord, Xantha (or Bargha or Chagon-nah), Wendar Town, Freiburg. 4) What's the most populated city of the Old World? (1) A: Thyatis City (500,000) 5) What's the name of the most important river of Darokin? (2) A: Streel River 6) Which countries does the Overland Trade Route cross? (5) A: Thyatis, Karameikos, Darokin, Ylaruam, Ethengar, Rockhome, Vestland, Soderfjord, Heldannic Territories. 7) Where is the Great School of Magic (city/nation)? (1) A: Glantri City/Principalities of Glantri 8) What's the longest river of the Old World? (4) A: Streel River (880 miles) 9) What's the highest mountain of the Old World and where is it located? (6) A: Mt de Glace in Glantri (25,100 feet) 10) Name at least three provinces controlled by the Empire of Thyatis (3) A: Ok, just the most famous ones: Kerendas, Hattias and Machetos. MAGIC & RELIGION (Total: 30 points) 1) What is the holy book of the Eternal Truth? (4) A: Nahmeh 2) What is the symbol of the Heldannic Knights' Order? (1) A: Black rampant lion on white field 3) What is the official religion of Ierendi? (3) A: Ierendi has no "official" religion. (sorry guys, i couldn't resist this) 4) To which Immortal belongs the "Silver Moon" symbol? (2) A: Asterius 5) Who is the Immortal Patron of Justice and Revenge? (2) A: Tarastia 6) Name one clerical and magic-user's spell of levels 1 and 2. (2) A: the most common are: MU lvl 1= Magic Missile, Read Magic, Read Languages, Charme, Sleep MU lvl 2= Mirror Image, Phantasmal Force, Invisibility, Web C lvl 1= Cure Light Wounds, Resist Cold, Light, Detect Evil C lvl 2= Resist Fire, Bless, Hold Person, Silence (5' radius). 7) List all the powers of a (OD&D) Staff of Wizardry. (6) A: Staff +1, Invisibility, Pass Wall, Conjure Elementals, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Ice Storm, Continual Light, Telekinesis, Paralysis (like Wand of Cold), Create Whirlwind (like a Djin), Final Power. 8) What are the requirements a Magic-user must satisfy to cast a Wish spell? (5) A: He must be of 33rd level and have an Intelligence score of at least 18 9) How many "Cure" clerical spells do exist? (1) A: 5 "Cure" spells: Cure Light Wounds, Cure Serious Wounds, Cure Critical Wounds, Cure Disease, Cure Blindness. (Cureall is the wizard's spell). 10) How is the Multiverse divided according to the recent Theories on the Planes of Existence? (4) A: It consists of Inner Planes and Outer Planes. The Inner Planes are: Prime Plane, Etheral Plane, Four Elemental Planes. The Outer Planes are: Astral Planes and Outer Planes. MISCELLANEA (Total: 30 points) 1) How many calendaries are diffused throughout the Old World by AC 1014? (3) A: At least eight: Thyatis, Alphatia, Ethengar, Five Shires, Rockhome, Ylaruam, Minrothad and Shadow elves' calendars. Sind is not part of the Old World. 2) What are the main festivals and holidays of Ierendi? (4) A: The Rebirth (Thaumont 1-7), Freedom Day and Crown Tournament (Klarmont 1), Celebration of the sea (Ambyrmont 1-2) and Days of Right (Kaldmont 1-3). 3) How many of the current Sheriffs of the Five Shires are women? (3) A: 3 female sheriffs: Delune Darkeyes, Sildil Seaeyes and Maeragh Littlelaughs. 4) Who is Oran Meditor? (1) A: Ruling Guildmaster of Minrothad Guilds 5) What are the true names of the so called "Northern Reaches"? (2) A: Vestland, Ostland and Soderfjord Jarldoms 6) Name at least two nations where slavery is legal. (3) A: Thyatis, Jaibul. 7) Name one country where the ruler of the nation is also the head of the Church and of the army? (2) A: Heldannic Territories and Hagiarchy of Hule, which are theocracies. 8) List all of the current (AC 1014) Principalities of Glantri. (5) A: Aalban, Belcadiz, Bergdhoven, Boldavia, Bramyra, Erewan, Fenswick, Klantyre, Krondahar, Morlay-Malinbois, New Kolland, Nouvelle Averoigne, Sablestone (13 in total). 9) When does the so called Day of Dread occurs? (1) A: on the last day of the Thyatian calendar (28th of Kaldmont) of each year 10) What is Chi and where is it located? (6) Chi is a small town located in the Grasslands of Chi, Ochalea. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:25:32 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gaming Styles [Humour] At 10.30 20/12/97 -0800, Jenni wrote: >Since we were recently discussing the different styles we variously use to play our favourite RPG, I thought I'd share the following with the list. II've had this bit of humour kicking around my hard drive for a number of years and thought that most of you would get a kick out of it... >REAL MEN, REAL ROLEPLAYERS, LOONIES AND MUNCHKINS By Jeff Okamoto, Sandy Petersen, and lots of others Eh eh.. i have it in my site too in the FUNtasy section... look there if u wanna read many funny articles about RPGs... DM http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:18:27 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Cthulhudrew's Mystics Hmm. . . . Looks like i missed the message that described the class. Can someone resend it to me. Gonna kill some PC's off soon so they just might wanna be a mystic :) Steve On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, DM wrote: >>Great work Andrew! A good class, some of the previous defects have now been balanced, though i'd have raised a bit the XP required (say begin with 2,200 instead of 2,000..). Anyway, good options, but i've some questions (as usual ;)): >I'd probably raise the xp somewhat myself, actually. I was mainly trying to keep it as similar as possible to the current fighter class. Also, I'm not sure, but since Fighters have the option to become spellcasters (Avengers and Paladins) at higher levels, it may help balance things somewhat. At any rate, the Fighter xp table seems to be the middle-most xp table among the OD&D classes. >>1. Thief abilities: i'd leave out the Climb Walls ability. The Acrobatics general skill as a bonus does seem enough for me. Don't see the Mystics as being able to climb walls like a thief but more like being able to jump and make incredible moves as per Acrobatics skill (i think the skill is described in GAZ12 -but u know it :)). >That's a possibility- or maybe just automatically use the Acrobatics ability of Mystics (with the 10% xp penalty to level out the xp tables). This could allow them the ability to catch themselves that AD&D Monks have. >>2. Smash and Set Spears options: the second is not appropriate IMHO (mystics using riding animals? with their own speed? why?), while the first... do u consider it as per normal rules (i.e. using a weapon) or is it intended with barehands too? In the latter case, it's not good... >I could see the Set Spears, possibly (in the vein of Chinese Pikemen), in some isolated cases. Again, though, the main thing was to try and keep it as close as possible to the class as it currently stands. >>3. Parry: can they parry barehanded? >Hmmm... Good question. I'd say so, if that's their primary style of weapon specialization. Something along the lines of an AC type bonus that weapon styles offer at higher levels. >>4. Number of attacks: you list 4/1: what does it mean? 4 barehanded and 1 with a weapon? If so, i think it's a good choice.. >Actually, I meant it as 4 attacks per round- like mainstream Fighters, and like higher level Mystics. >>5. Willpower: too much powerful IMHO. I'd give them Resist Fire and Resist Cold at levels 9 and 14, putting Speak with Anyone in the place of Resistence, Resistence in the place of Mind Block and Mind Block at level 22. >That might actually work out better. For one thing, it helps to give a more even distribution of abilities. A lot of the things I put in were "sketchy" items that seemed okay at the time. >The only thing about that is, don't the Resist Fire/Cold abilities more or less become negated when they get their Resistance ability? Or should they be cumulative? >>6. Special Restrictions: When fighting using their specialty style, they may not use a magical weapon.: ok, i've not understood this, what do u refer to when u say "their specialty style"? And aagain: >I mainly mean that they use one "Weapon Choice" at the creation of the character that becomes their primary fighting style. In most cases, this should be some sort of unarmed fighting style (the base I used to determine their abilities was the Striking style in the combat section). Some rare exceptions might allow a weapon style or combo weapon/unarmed style. This was mainly to try and simulate that not all mystics are alike, and to simulate the difference of real world martial arts. Of course, it requires a bit of creativity on the DM's part to make some new fighting styles, but I wrote some up here on the list once, and others have, too. If nothing else, they could just use the two given- Striking and Wrestling (for a Kung-Fu or Boxing style mystic and Sumo mystic, respectively). >Again, some styles may allow weapons (Minrothaddan Escrimadors would probably use something like the Dagger table, but substituting knives and escrim sticks for the dagger itself; probably get rid of the double damage and substitute some disarms/deflects). >As for the magical weapon, Mystics prefer not to use a magic weapon with their primary style (or magical accessories, in the case of unarmed styles, such as magical cesti, gauntlets, etc.) as that is not a measure of their true ability. They are like Kensai (Oriental Adventures) in this respect. This helps to balance out the fact that they already get plenty of bonuses, etc, *without* having need of magical enhancements. >>"Mystics may never have a higher level of Weapon Mastery in any weapon style other than their primary specialty. They must have achieved Grand Mastery in their primary style before raising any other style to Grand Master." What is this primary style and how does it affect weapons Mastery? And also, u spoke of Weapon Mastery with barehand combat: how can this be? where are the tables? In RC (since they're not in old Master set)? i'd be glad if u shed some light on this (which is the point i've not really understood). >I probably didn't make it too clear, but I hope the above sheds some light on things. >As far as the Grand Mastery, I wanted to try to make sure that PC mystics didn't skirt the rules by getting a higher weapon mastery in other weapons, *until* they reached the point where their primary weapon damage was high enough that they could feel free to wail on people with that. That, and I felt that by disallowing the extra damage, etc, with any weapon other than the primary weapon, it would help to keep the mystics fighting with their main style. >>I haven't yet foreseen the possible repercussions of the damage inflicted by a Mystic, but i think it's less problematic then the old Mystic who had 6 attacks at maximum level! :) >Higher level mystics (and 36th level mystics in particular) should still be pretty darned tough, but not unbalancingly so, and not at such a low level. At least, that's the theory. :) >------------------------ >Cthuludrew, the Great Old One >(aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." >URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:57:06 -0500 From: dcmoore@worldlynx.net (Chad & Diane Moore) Subject: [Mystara] Heroic Magic I've recently added a development to magic in my gaming that I'd like an opinion on: Heroic Magic I define this as the ability to modify a magic spell within a certain degree (to be determined by the DM) in an effort to do something snazzy. For instance--You and your boat full of passengers are about to fall over a waterfall. Going down is going to be fatal. Ah--you know featherfall! Thinking quickly you modify featherfall to effect the entire ship and voila, everyone is safe. Or--You're up agaist something that's fire resistant on the outside. However on the inside... :) Anyway, there's a percent chance based on the level of the spell of failure to modify, and if you are successful, you have to give a portion of yourself to the magic (read level drain) to power the new spell. Whatcha think? Chad Chad & Diane Moore dcmoore@worldlynx.net http://www.xanodria.com 1-800-XPI-GAME ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 03:15:57 -0500 From: Bob Brunciak Subject: Re: [Mystara] Heroic Magic Chad & Diane Moore wrote: >I've recently added a development to magic in my gaming that I'd like an opinion on: Heroic Magic I define this as the ability to modify a magic spell within a certain degree (to be determined by the DM) in an effort to do something snazzy. For instance--You and your boat full of passengers are about to fall over a waterfall. Going down is going to be fatal. Ah--you know featherfall! Thinking quickly you modify featherfall to effect the entire ship and voila, everyone is safe. Or--You're up agaist something that's fire resistant on the outside. However on the inside... :) Anyway, there's a percent chance based on the level of the spell of failure to modify, and if you are successful, you have to give a portion of yourself to the magic (read level drain) to power the new spell. Whatcha think?< Sounds interesting. Do you have a system or table worked out for this? And will these modifications be completley new spells (i.e. I have to memorize "featherfall" and "featherfall within 50 meters" at night instead of just one spell)? On the same frequency dealing with alternate magic, does each person learn a spell slightly differently than another or is it the same. Example: (all "magic missles" are white or does Darius' look like red arrows while Misha's look like blue shards of ice?) I thnk this was discussed some time back but I could be mistaken. Bob P.S. Season's Greetings to all! :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 01:05:30 EST From: DUFFISGOD Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen I was always puzzled because the icevale elves folllow a lot of the religious duties of rafiel. I think he was just overlooked in the hollow world box set so as not to put the hw into the conflict in woti.As best as i know the shadow elves also known as the four lost clans(why i dont know because there were seven) split after the destruction of aengmor. some stopped and began to follow the immortal rafiel (two others and the the 4 in gaz 13) one kept going and continued its worship of atzanteotl(the shadow elf patron at the time) later another clan left because of an outbreak in the population. these elves were to form a large colony to the south but went a little too far(ice vale) i like the idea of the gentle folk getting lost after the detonation of the device but before the founding of aengmor. please reply i never get a reply(maybe its cuz i ramble on like this) "Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats." Howard Aiken duff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 13:11:24 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen At 01.05 25/12/97 EST, DUFFISGOD wrote: >I was always puzzled because the icevale elves folllow a lot of the religious duties of rafiel. I think he was just overlooked in the hollow world box set so as not to put the hw into the conflict in woti.As best as i know the shadow >elves also known as the four lost clans(why i dont know because there were seven) split after the destruction of aengmor. some stopped and began to follow the immortal rafiel (two others and the the 4 in gaz 13) one kept going >and continued its worship of atzanteotl(the shadow elf patron at the time) later another clan left because of an outbreak in the population. these elves were to form a large colony to the south but went a little too far(ice vale) i >like the idea of the gentle folk getting lost after the detonation of the device but before the founding of aengmor. please reply i never get a reply(maybe its cuz i ramble on like this) I hate to spoil things I wrote in next almanac, but if you really need a reply :) What if those religious practices aren't Rafiel's duties, but ancient elvish traditions dating from the post-Great Rain of Fire era? After the GRoF the elvish race was probably short of supplies, so they had to set up certain regulations to prevent overpopulation. Modern day elves (Alfheim, Wendar, Callarii...) don't need those strict regulations any more and probably forgot about them, but Shadow Elves, who live in a harsh environnement, and those clans who went (or were moved) to the HW just after the GRoF still follow those customs. You'll find more in the next net-almanac. PS: sorry Thorfinn for stealing some of your ideas ;-) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 20:03:51 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen In a message dated 97-12-25 14:32:35 EST, brizio@lunet.it writes: >After the GRoF the elvish race was probably short of supplies, so they had tto set up certain regulations to prevent overpopulation. That's funny -- from all that I have read, overpopulation has never been a problem for Elves. Just start with the time that they take to mature, assume that they do not have many more children than humans, and work out the math -- you will soon see that they should have more of an underpopulation problem. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:25:19 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen At 20.03 25/12/97 EST, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 97-12-25 14:32:35 EST, brizio@lunet.it writes: >>After the GRoF the elvish race was probably short of supplies, so they had ttto set up certain regulations to prevent overpopulation. >That's funny -- from all that I have read, overpopulation has never been a problem for Elves. Just start with the time that they take to mature, assume that they do not have many more children than humans, and work out the math -- you will soon see that they should have more of an underpopulation problem. True, but after the Great Rain of Fire, elves had no homeland and probably food was scarce, so even a "standard" community would have been overpopulated. Well, maybe "lack of resources" is more correct than "overpopulation", but the problem is the same: too much elves for so few food. Just my opinion. BTW: elvish couples usually have an average of 2 children, elvish gestation period is 12 months, their lifespan about 800 years and they're considered mature at about 120 years. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 19:23:11 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [Mystara] Elves? (was:Schattenalfen) On Fri, 26 Dec 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >BTW: elvish couples usually have an average of 2 children, elvish gestation period is 12 months, their lifespan about 800 years and they're considered mature at about 120 years. Where did you find this information? I have always assumed that elves mature similar to humans or perhaps even faster. (the latter comes from a vague Elfquest reference.) Håvard - -Oops, my sig was accidentally deleted from this e-letter. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 18:28:34 GMT From: mar0173@ibm.net Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen At 12:25 26/12/97 +0100, you wrote: >BTW: elvish couples usually have an average of 2 children, elvish gestation period is 12 months, their lifespan about 800 years and they're considered mature at about 120 years. That is something I definetively can not agree with, no matter what canon material says. With an average of 2 children per couple, the new ones just replace their parents when times come. And, if you consider that not every born elf will grow up to maturity and have children, you will find their numbers will go down VERY fast (in elf terms, meaning in hundreds of years), until they are all dead or just a genetic variant capable of more than 2 children becomes the usual. If that was true, the elves couldn't have survived for thousand of years. If you want to see the math, let's first consider elves have an stable population at some time (they were lucky enough that every born elf grew up to have an average of two children in the last 400 years). At that time, every old couple that died had replaced themselves by 2 elves earlier and you might say that every elf that dies is replaced by another elf that is born. However, after that ideal time, the elves started to have wars, plagues, natural disasters, resulting that just 1.9 elves in 2 reach adulthood (I am being very generous). Let's suppose they take 200 years to have their kids. This way, each 200 years their population would decrease by a factor of 1.9/2.0 = 0.95. In one millenia, they would have their numbers reduced to 77% of the original and in 4 thousand years, 35% of it. And we also have to remember that 4,000 years ago, my assuption of 1.9 elves in 2 growing up to adulthood would be extremely optimistic. If you take the average of reaching adulthood to be 1.8 in 2 (still very optimistic, I'd say), the results are much more desastrous, with just 12% of their original numbers existing today. That would make all the branching in their history impossible. Their population should be decreasing and they would never have the numbers to form new tribes. This is one big flaw with fantasy creatures and cultures I've never liked. Many of them have elements that would make their survival impossible, meaning they would have to change or die very soon. Andre Martins ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 14:30:14 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Elves? I can't tell you how much I hate that weakness given to elves (birth rate) by all settings. The changed I made is that elves mature the same rate as humans with the only real difference is longer lifespans. Even though the original idea is that elven children mature slowly, I don't believe I've seen an example of an elven infant that has remained an infant for a number of years. Also, if this were true about maturity then it would also be true for all aspects of their lives so their advancement of character levels would be so great that the elven race would never come close to advancing the same rate as humans or the other races. Also, I imagine that since the goblinkin races outpace elven and human population, they must have litters of children (probably the same as canines in frequency). - -- Galwylin Email: galwylin@airnet.net Home Page: http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Enter the Mystara Netlogo Contest! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 22:43:52 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen In a message dated 97-12-26 08:05:38 EST, brizio@lunet.it writes: >BTW: elvish couples usually have an average of 2 children, elvish gestation pperiod is 12 months, their lifespan about 800 years and they're considered mature at about 120 years. That actually makes matters worse for Elves -- two children for couple would be replacement rate only, and in actuality it would amount to less than that if you allow for all the Elves who never marry. I would assume that they have about as many children as human couples -- and even then they are easily outbred by the shorter lived, faster maturing races. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 22:38:22 -0600 From: Earl Kwallek Subject: Re: [Mystara] Elven Lifespan Greetings everyone - new voice on the list here - I'm going to jump right in and give you my take on elven lifespan.... Generally I assume an elf's age to be roughly equal to the equivalent human years added together. for example a 13 year old human would equate to: 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12+13 = 78 (Early adolescence) or a 40 year old human would be: 1+2+3+4.... +39+40= 807 (Old age for Medieval Culture) Then again I've always assumed elves to be functionally immortal - they can live OVER 1000 yrs with relative ease. Can anyone remeber what the "official" take on elven lifespan is? Asbestos suit on - Flame Away... +-------------------------+-------------------------------------+ |Earl A Kwallek | You have the Right to Remain Silent | |"Student of Everything" | Anything you say WILL be misquoted | |Earl@TheWarren.Mil.Wi.Us | and used against you... | +-------------------------+-------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 23:07:21 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN] The MML is Dead! Long live the MML! Mystarans, Well, boys and girls, now that the new MML is up and seems to be running fine, it is time for the old one to die. On Wednesday the 31st, 1997, I will put in the call to Illuminati Online to shut down my account with them. Once they get around to doing so, all mail to the list on io.com will fail. It would be wise to post all mail to the new list at this point, to make sure the threads we have now stay alive. That weekend the MML site will return on my local ISP, at which time I will post the URL. For the hell of it, here is the new FAQ... --- INTRODUCTION --- Mystara is one TSR's fantasy game settings for use with it's xD&D games, and the Mystara Mailing List is for discussing this setting. In addition, the list is also a place for discussing the Original Dungeons and Dragons game. --- HOW TO SUB, POST, AND UNSUB --- Q: How do I subscribe to Mystara-L? A: To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@mpgn.com. (Note that this is not the posting address.) In the body, have the single line... subscribe Mystara-L Q: How do I post to Mystara-L? A: To post, send your message to mystara-l@mpgn.com. (Note that this is not the subscribe/unsubscribe address.) Your message will be sent to every subscriber, including yourself. Q: How do I unsubscribe to Mystara-L? A: To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@mpgn.com. (Note that this is not the posting address.) In the body, have the single line... unsubscribe Mystara-L Q: Can I get the messages in digest form? A: Sure. Use the procedure above to subscribe, only substitute Mystara-Digest for Mystara-L. Q: What's a digest? A: The digest version of the list saves up the messages until they reach a specified volume or time period, then sends them out as a single long message, instead of one at a time. There is no savings on space or noise, but it is useful for people who can only pick up their messages once a day, or who are charged per message rather than by message size. Q: I haven't seen a post for a while? Have I been booted from the list? How will I know? A: Sometimes majordomo has problems sending e-amil to an address. The reason varies, but a common one is that the mailbox for that address is full. When this happens majordomo sends an e-mail error message to the admin. It does this everytime there is a post to the list. To save his sanity the admin will unsubscribe any address that gives him problems. This is not permanent, and if this happens you can resubscribe. So, how do you know if you have been booted? Simiply send e-mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with this single line in the message body... which ...and majordomo will reply by telling you which lists hosted on MPGN you are subscribed to. If mystara-l isn't one of them, you have been booted. If this is the case simply resubscribe as directed above. - POSTING - Q: What can a person talk about on the Mystara Mailing List (MML)? A: The MML is for the discussion of ... 1) Mystara in both it's D&D and AD&D incarnations. 2) How other TSR settings and supplements interact with Mystara (i.e. Spelljammer, Planescape, Ravenloft, Chronomancer, Shaman, etc.) 3) How one might recreate Mystara through other game systems (i.e GURPS, Hero, Rolemaster, Bridge, etc.) 4) Original Dungeons & Dragons (a.k.a. Basic D&D, or just D&D) Q: What can't a person talk about on the MML? A: The MML is not for general discussion of TSR's other fantasy worlds, AD&D, or other game systems. Q: Why is it that you can discuss general D&D, but not general AD&D? A: The available resources for AD&D far surpass D&D. As far as this FAQ writer knows, there is no list dedicated solely to D&D, so this list tries to make up for that. If one is looking for discussion of general AD&D, one does not have to look hard. In addition, D&D was the original system that Mystara was designed under. Q: So, is the list admin an Ogre who will ban me from the list if a thread starts to stray from Mystara? A: Actually, the admin is a really nice guy who set up this list out of love for Mystara, not to hold power over others. (Well, maybe a little power). The admin will only intervene if the topics start to stray too far for too long, or if there is a general consensus from members that a thread must die. Q: How can I contact the admin without sending mail to the entire list? A: The admin can be contacted through e-mail, at the following address: Malacoda@lesbois.com Feel free to drop the admin an e-line. He's open to opinions and suggestions about the list, or this FAQ, or his hygeine. Q: Can I advertise on MML? A: If you have Mystara or other D&D products for sale, feel free to post an ad to MML. If you are running an auction, though, do it from r.g.f.marketplace, with an announcement in MML. The sale of other items is disallowed. Posting any sort of chain letter or Make Money Fast! ads is a good way to get kicked off. Q: How about Fluff (game-based fiction)? A: Fluff is allowed, as long as the story is not too long. Q: Can I ask if there are any gamers in my area? A: Sure, but keep it short, and don't get carried away with frequency. Posting such a question once a week is delving into the shadowy world of Spam (a twisted, inhuman realm). Q: Such and such product is out of print/too expensive/only available in R'lyeh. Can I ask someone on the list to type/scan/copy it for me? A: Anyone that engages in blatant copyright infringement on the list will get a warning. Further violations will result in a ban from the list. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 13:01:13 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [Mystara] Elven Lifespan On Fri, 26 Dec 1997, Earl Kwallek wrote: >Greetings everyone - new voice on the list here - I'm going to jump right in and give you my take on elven lifespan.... Greetings stranger :) >Generally I assume an elf's age to be roughly equal to the equivalent human years added together. Any particular reason you chose this method of calcualtion? >Then again I've always assumed elves to be functionally immortal - they can live OVER 1000 yrs with relative ease. Can anyone remeber what the "official" take on elven lifespan is? I think they can live to about 800 years according to the Elves of Alfheim Gaz. The complete book of elves says something similar, but I dont think that one has much relevance in Mystara though. Håvard - ------- Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #237 ***************************** Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:07:50 -0600 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #238 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 757ee8e466471faefe4aad0fdf9a50e1 mystara-digest Tuesday, January 6 1998 Volume 02 : Number 238 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 20:22:20 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Elves? (was:Schattenalfen) At 19.23 26/12/97 +0100, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: OOn Fri, 26 Dec 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >>BTW: elvish couples usually have an average of 2 children, elvish gestation period is 12 months, their lifespan about 800 years and they're considered mature at about 120 years. >Where did you find this information? I have always assumed that elves mature similar to humans or perhaps even faster. (the latter comes from a vague Elfquest reference.) Various sources, let's see. * 800 years lifespan it's in the Rules Cyclopedia IIRC * gestation period of 12 months is from Gaz13, maybe it applies only to Shadow Elves? I don't know... * adulthood=120 years. This is trickier, but IIRC Gaz13 states that babies born with the mark of the shaman are trained until they've 120. At that point (if they don't fail the test) they become full acolytes of Rafiel. I took this as a sign of adulthood, anyway I think it should be sometime after 100 years. * average of 2 children: don't flame me, but this is from the Player's Survival Guide. There's a chart in Handout 12 about the average number of children born to couples of various races: dwarf 1-3; elf 1-2; gnome 1-2; half-elf 1-4; halfling 1-10; humans 1-6 An elf couple typically has 2 childrens, but may have up to 4 (who own the PSG knows what I'm saying, I hope :). According to Gaz13 Shadow Elves are more prolific than surface ones, they've an average of 4 childrens per family, but don't forget that some of these are deformed babies. This is of the reason for the number of Shadow Elves being 3 times that of Alfheim elves. Hope this helps. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:09:47 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen At 18.28 26/12/97 GMT, mar0173@ibm.net wrote: >That is something I definetively can not agree with, no matter what canon material says. With an average of 2 children per couple, the new ones just replace their parents when times come. True. >And, if you consider that not every >born elf will grow up to maturity and have children, you will find their numbers will go down VERY fast (in elf terms, meaning in hundreds of years), until they are all dead or just a genetic variant capable of more than 2 children becomes the usual. If that was true, the elves couldn't have survived for thousand of years. Here you're wrong. I said an AVERAGE of 2 children per couple, this means that if a couple doesn't have childrens another couple will have 4 and the average is always 2. So the elvish race will not grow in number, but not disappear either. >If you want to see the math, let's first consider elves have an stable population at some time (they were lucky enough that every born elf grew up to have an average of two children in the last 400 years). At that time, every old couple that died had replaced themselves by 2 elves earlier and you might say that every elf that dies is replaced by another elf that is born. However, after that ideal time, the elves started to have wars, plagues, natural disasters, resulting that just 1.9 elves in 2 reach adulthood (I am being very generous). Let's suppose they take 200 years to have their kids. This way, each 200 years their population would decrease by a factor of 1.9/2.0 = 0.95. In one millenia, they would have their numbers reduced to 77% of the original and in 4 thousand years, 35% of it. And we also have to remember that 4,000 years ago, my assuption of 1.9 elves in 2 growing up to adulthood would be extremely optimistic. If you take the average of reaching adulthood to be 1.8 in 2 (still very optimistic, I'd say), the results are much more desastrous, with just 12% of their original numbers existing today. I think you're wrong again. If the average number of children per couple is still 2, then the population does not decrease, because the average takes into account both elves that don't have children (because they don't reach adulthood e.g.) and the ones who have more than 2 children. It's an average, so if there're 2000 elves, than they'll have 2000 children even if just 1800 of the original elves reach adulthood. Your analysis would be more correct if you'd say that the average number of children per couple goes down to 1.8 during troubled years. >That would make all the branching in their history impossible. Their population should be decreasing and they would never have the numbers to form new tribes. This is one big flaw with fantasy creatures and cultures I've never liked. Many of them have elements that would make their survival impossible, meaning they would have to change or die very soon. My opinion is that the elvish society is a stable one, they won't grow very much in number in future years (except maybe the Shadow Elves that have a higher growth rate, see my previous posting). Moreover Gaz5 didn't give me the feeling of the elves as a growing community. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 08:53:01 -0600 From: Earl Kwallek Subject: Re: [Mystara] Elven Lifespan At 01:01 PM 12/27/97 +0100, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: GGGenerally I assume an elf's age to be roughly equal to the equivalent human years added together. >Any particular reason you chose this method of calcualtion? I wanted Elves to mature at a faster rate than indictated by various sources (most put maturity in the 100-200 yr range). This would help to solve the "Dying race" problem that others here have commented on. >>Then again I've always assumed elves to be functionally immortal - they can live OVER 1000 yrs with relative ease. Can anyone remeber what the "official" take on elven lifespan is? >I think they can live to about 800 years according to the Elves of Alfheim Gaz. The complete book of elves says something similar, but I dont think that one has much relevance in Mystara though. Based on that, youy might want to half my numbers (round up) this would give: Human Elf Human Elf Human Elf 10 30 25 159 50 640 15 64 30 230 60 920 18 90 35 314 20 100 40 410 Or your 800 yr old elf is approximate 56 in human terms, a ripe old age for anything before WW 1 in the real world... +-------------------------+-------------------------------------+ |Earl A Kwallek | You have the Right to Remain Silent | |"Student of Everything" | Anything you say WILL be misquoted | |Earl@TheWarren.Mil.Wi.Us | and used against you... | +-------------------------+-------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:04:08 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] Elven Lifespan In a message dated 97-12-26 23:51:37 EST, earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us writes: >Can anyone remeber what the >"official" take on elven lifespan is? In D&D/AD&D, elves are very long lived but not immortal. In the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, Elves are allotted a life span of 750 + 2d% years, although other sources indicate that an upper limit of 1200 years is possible. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 12:55:48 -0500 From: lordvalen@juno.com (Jakklyph Valen Kroe) Subject: [Mystara] Thanks, LeRoy! Just want to express my appreciation to you for all the trouble it must have taken to do the whole list changeover (and all the trouble you're bound to have in the next few weeks)! I salute you, Mr. VanCamp! Lord Valen http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/1337 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 13:55:49 -0500 From: lordvalen@juno.com (Jakklyph Valen Kroe) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Character histories When playing, I always make up an history for my characters, when I pre-gen characters when I DM, I always make up (at least) brief histories for them all. This helps define the character, and may give players some idea of what makes the character tick, how the combination of characters fits together, et cetera. I find that character histories are a nice way to colour the gameplay! Lord Valen http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/1337 On Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:39:06 +0800 Glenn Butcher writes: >Chad & Diane Moore rambled (dcmoore@worldlynx.net): IIIIt seems to me that you have gone to the opposite extreme from the "Monty Haulers" -- a level per year of real time seems to be rather >>>slow advancement. Unless you and your players don't get together that often, I would consider that rate to be a bit too slow. But tto each >>>his own, I guess. >[Snip] >>Which leads me to this question: >>Does anyone do anything with character histories? >I do! > >One of my characters kept a journal, and several people in one of my campaigns keep a journal. >http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/campaign/alvy.html http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/campaign/cu.html (the latter has restarted, and has been recently updated). > >Writing it up, and posting a URL is quite acceptable. If you don't have >web access, I'm certain some people would be happy to keep it on thier pages. >-- >Glenn Butcher | knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au "Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important stuff >on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)" (Linus Torvalds, about his failing hard drive on linux.cs.helsinki.fi) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 21:53:41 -0500 From: dcmoore@worldlynx.net (Chad & Diane Moore) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Heroic Magic >Sounds interesting. Do you have a system or table worked out for this? And will these modifications be completley new spells (i.e. I have to memorize "featherfall" and "featherfall within 50 meters" at night instead of just one spell)? Most of it is improvisational role playing. Nobody in my adv's has had the nervee to use it yet. It would go something like this: "I've got featherfall memorized, and with what I know about how this spell works, if I change these words as I cast it, I can extend it..." >On the same frequency dealing with alternate magic, does each person learn a spell slightly differently than another or is it the same. Example: (all "magic missles" are white or does Darius' look like red arrows while Misha's look like blue shards of ice?) I thnk this was discussed some time back but I could be mistaken. Bob I have two different mage orders in my party. One is the traditional components/gestures/verbal castings and the other is a song-mage. Their spells are spoken quite differently and the effects tend to look a bit different as well. For instance, the traditional mage's magic missles are white blasts of magic while the song mages are red streaks. Chad & Diane Moore dcmoore@worldlynx.net http://www.xanodria.com 1-800-XPI-GAME ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 11:49:14 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Elven Lifespan << Then again I've always assumed elves to be functionally immortal - they can live OVER 1000 yrs with relative ease. Can anyone remeber what the "official" take on elven lifespan is? i beleive it was between 600-1000 years of age when they decide it's their time. - -Inconu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 00:21:37 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Elven Lifespan At 11.49 29/12/97 EST, Inconu wrote: >i beleive it was between 600-1000 years of age when they decide it's their time. Found another important reference: GAZ 5, page 10: "... average life span of 800 years..." - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 14:18:03 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thanks, LeRoy! Jakklyph Valen Kroe >Just want to express my appreciation to you for all the trouble it must have taken to do the whole list changeover (and all the trouble you're bound to have in the next few weeks)! I salute you, Mr. VanCamp! And thank you for the vote of confidence. The change- over form one server to another was a pain, but I think we pulled through it quite well, in no small part due to the patience of the list members. Hopefully we won't have to go through this for quite a while! Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 09:00:55 -0600 From: Earl Kwallek Subject: [Mystara] Test.... This message is a test I need to find out if I have been transfered onto the list for the new server or not... If not this list has been awfully quiet.... +-------------------------+-------------------------------------+ |Earl A Kwallek | You have the Right to Remain Silent | |"Student of Everything" | Anything you say WILL be misquoted | |Earl@TheWarren.Mil.Wi.Us | and used against you... | +-------------------------+-------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 09:51:54 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [Mystara] Test.... Shhh... we're still in shock how much money we've spent this holiday season. Earl Kwallek wrote: >This message is a test >I need to find out if I have been transfered onto the list for the new server or not... >If not this list has been awfully quiet.... - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Vote for the Mystara Netlogo! http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/mystara/netlogo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:17:09 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN] The NEW Mystara Mailing List Home Page! Mystarans, Anyone who has has checked out the MML home page knows it is sorely outdated, and has been for some time. This is soon to change. I have begun work on my website and this includes the MML home page. Now that I have aquired some decent web design software, not only will the MML page get a facelift and restructuring, but more frequent updates as well. What you can expect... 1) A new FAQ page. I will be updating the FAQ much more frequently. And, although all newcomers are sent a copy of the FAQ when they subscribe, that version is not likely to get updated as frequently (possibly _much_ less frequently). So, I plan on posting the URL for the MML home page about once every two weeks, so people are kept up to date on where the FAQ is and any changes that have been made. 2) There will be a new member directory, one that is updated far more often. My current plan is to post an announcement once every two weeks, along with the FAQ, asking people to sign up if they already haven't. 3) I will add a links page to other Mystara pages. As with the FAQ and Directory, I will occasionally send mail to the list asking for links, although less often (once a month or so). 4) A few things will disappear, at least temporarily. For example, the files page would currently be better served by links to pages with more extensive selections. (Though you may see that return, if I get ambitious.) 5) Other miscellaneous stuff will be added. An example is a Mystara projects page where the various net projects people are working on are listed, allowing people to get in contact with those involved. When the page is complete enough for guests, I will post the URL. Hopefully this will be next weekend, though it will still be far from coomplete at that point. Thanks for your time. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:15:58 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi Tournament Answers (Quiz =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=B02?= ) On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, DM wrote: >9) What is the oldest nation of the Old World? (2) A: Alfheim is the oldest nation of the OW (the one that held the same government system from the beginning), founded in 700 BC (Mealiden crowned first King of Alfheim). What about Ethengar - it gained independence sometimes in 1700 BC. And it held the same "government system" since then (tribes ruled by khans). ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:20:39 GMT From: mar0173@ibm.net Subject: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA]Undeads in the HW (was Water circle of Alphatia) >At 02:54 4/01/98 +0100, you wrote: >>On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, Magesmiley wrote: >>>In a message dated 98-01-02 14:35:30 EST, you write: >>><< << What happens to the water from Alphatian rivers pouring over the edge of >>>the flying continent? >> >>>Awhile back, when AOL had the TSR Boards (argh!!) I asked a simular question >>>that dealt with the coastal towns and cities of Alphatia that depended upon the sea for existence. Also asked about vampires and how the eternal red sun >>>of HW affected them, besides turning them to dust. But that is another subject. >>The Red Sun does turn vampires to dust, should it do anything else? There are ofcourse undead in the HW who endure the suns harmful effects, but I wont go into this since you werent really asking... The Flying Continents could be the answer. Any society where undeads were an important part and which Immortals might decide to preserve, could be placed in spherical flying continents, with gravity pointing towards its center. They could rotate and that would make for day and twilight (not really night, as the light reflected back from the surface of the HW will certainly be stronger than any moonlight, unles some Immortal tamper with this. I have also imagined Nyx using a flat flying continent to harbor an old and menaced society of vampires in the down side, where the sun never shines. If my players ever go to the HW, I intend to create this (or these) undead societies and maybe send them near one of them. That might preserve any undead races that eventually becomes endangered and the HW might already have some unique breeds of Nithian undeads that exist only there. Andre Martins ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:20:28 GMT From: mar0173@ibm.net Subject: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Water circle of Alphatia Hi, I have sent 4 emails to the list at mpgn, but didn't see any of them back. This way, I am resending them, this time to the soon to be dead io list. Leroy, do I have to use the account where I receive the list emails to be able to post? >At 04:19 21/12/97 EST, you wrote: >>Hi folks, Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:07:50 -0600 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #238 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 757ee8e466471faefe4aad0fdf9a50e1 >>you might wonder what I have meant with the subject title. It's a simple question: >>What happens to the water from Alphatian rivers pouring over the edge of the flying continent? >>Please write your ideas. I always thought the best possible solution was to make the alphatian floating cintinent a sphere, with its gravity pointing towards its own center. This way, Alphatia properly would be the only continent in its floating continent and it would be surrounded by sea. This not only would solve the problem of the water cycle as another one. When transplating a culture to HW, the Immortals try to preserve it as much as possible. Now, Alphatia had many sea ports and many normal sea-going vessels. This way, they would want to make a sea around the continent, so that its sea cities can keep being that and can trade with each other, in the absence of other lands. Or they would make a larger flat floating continent, surrounded by a parcel of sea, surrounded by high mountains to keep the sea inside. The alphatians would then be working on the building of towers in this mountains, to better protect their land. Maybe there is already a hidden heldannic base in some part of it, they flew there during one of the Days Without Magic, found a cave and starte building. What do you think? Anyway, I always felt the floating continents should not be all the same style. I'd prefer to have some of them flat, some spherical, according with the needs of the Immortal that created them. I also have a number of ideas about new flying continents, that I'll post someday. Andre Martins ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:20:50 GMT From: mar0173@ibm.net Subject: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - Jews in Mystara (was something else :) >At 03:41 4/01/98 +0100, you wrote: >>>Then many things changed in RW, but we decided to keep the peace process going in Mystara. >>Weren't you talking about a war in 1020? That would be me, talking about the war. But the guys in control of the Almanac didn't like the idea. I haven't given up convincing them, just got too many problems in real life to do anything about it in the last year. Maybe I'll use all these paralells with the Middle East and propose new groups for the next year. Elven terrorists trying to destroy the peace proccess by planting fireballs in important buildings and the like, maybe sponsored by one of the entropics. Not that I aggree the SE and AE would even start talking without some other stronger power in the world trying to force them to (no Europe or USA constantly interfering and trying to find peaceful solutions). Shadow Elves are as loved by alfheimers as orcs are; can anyone see a surface elf negotiating with an orc who took their land? Sorry, but it sounds just silly to me. I can understand that's what we all would like to see happening, like peace in the Middle East. But it is completely unrealistic and out-of-character for them to do it. They are bitter enemies, with centuries of hatred in both sides. If you are talking about individuals fighting for peace, that would be all right, but theirs would be a lost fight. Even if Ilsundal were to come to the alfheimers and tell the elves he wished them to live in peace with the Shadow Elves, the peace would be difficult. Many would obey, but he would lose a significant part of his followers. The fact that both elven communities can be understood as "good" doens't mean they will get along. Btw, I never liked that division of good and bad. The way I see alignments is a more subjective one. Spells that detect it are usually given by Immortals or Gods, so they should be bound to carry the personal judgement of the god. This way, a cleric of Ixion would detect every undead as evil, while Nyx would detect them as good; a priest of Halav would see every gnoll as evil, no matter what the gnoll's actions had really been. Or lawful and chaotic, depending on if the creature detect follows or not the same laws as the Immortal who granted the spell. Of course, there are some extreme cases about which most Immortals would agree, but never all of them. No culture or philosophy thinks of itself as evil, so Thanatos would tell his followers how they are working for the benefit of the world by bringing it death and how those who oppose his views are really wicked. Personally, I would classify him and his followers as evil if I were to descend to simple Immortal status :) but he and his followers certainly don't. No The Truth for my campaigns. Andre Martins P.S. Just a small reminder to the people writing the almanac. When all this discussion first appeared some two years ago, we decided it would be better to decide it by vote. I called a voting and the best voted option was a WAR around 1020. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:20:11 GMT From: mar0173@ibm.net Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen >At 14:09 27/12/97 +0100, you wrote: >>>And, if you consider that not every >>>born elf will grow up to maturity and have children, you will find their numbers will go down VERY fast (in elf terms, meaning in hundreds of years), until they are all dead or just a genetic variant capable of more than 2 children becomes the usual. If that was true, the elves couldn't have survived for thousand of years. >>Here you're wrong. I said an AVERAGE of 2 children per couple, this means that if a couple doesn't have childrens another couple will have 4 and the average is always 2. >>So the elvish race will not grow in number, but not disappear either. Please, don't try to explain me what an average means, I am very aware of that (my current post-doctorate research is in Statistical Mechanics). That was never my point. My point, that I might haven't made clear in the original email, is that there will always be children who die before reaching sexual maturity. This way, if, in the average, each two elves have 2 children, in the average each elf will have LESS than 2 mature offspring to perpetuate their species. And their numbers will go down. Simple as that. I could accept your point if what you really means is not what you wrote. Meaning that there is an average of 2 successful offsping per elf couple, something that would probably means 3 children per couple, with 1, in average, dieing before adulthood. If that's what you meant, I agree their numbers wouldn't go down by itself and this part of the discussion would be purely accademical. But see bellow >>I think you're wrong again. If the average number of children per couple is still 2, then the population does not decrease, because the average takes into account both elves that don't have children (because they don't reach adulthood e.g.) and the ones who have more than 2 children. It's an average, so if there're 2000 elves, than they'll have 2000 children even if just 1800 of the original elves reach adulthood. Your analysis would be more correct if you'd say that the average number of children per couple goes down to 1.8 during troubled years. So you are counting even the babies who die two weeks after being born in the number of adult elves who procriate, for average reasons. That would never be the way I'd read your statement, but, if you make it clear that's what you're doing, I have no problem with that. I just find this a very odd way of saying things, not the natural ones. But then, that's the problem with statistcs and why they are so easily manipulated, just by changing your definition, the numbers can "prove" anything you wished. Ask any politician or marketeer. Anyway, that would certainly slve the problem of their numbers going down by themselves, but it doesn't solve the problem of the branching. If that was the case, their numbers would never go up and there would be no possibility to create new clans. And they would never recover from wars and plagues. However, I do have a solutions for this, now that I think of it. What happens with elves is not that they are genetically predisposed to have few children. Any elf couple could, if they wanted, have 10 or 20 children during their lifetime, just like humans can (and do, in a medieval society). However, they are very aware of their role in the nature and realize that a forest can keep a maximum number of elves, without them having to cut it down to introduce crops that would feed all of them. So, when their society reaches that maximum number, most elven couples decides to reduce the number of the children they'll have. In times of crisis, when their numbers go dangerously down, the ban on big families is raised and every elf is supposed to have children, the more, the better. Like now, for the AE, who are certainly trying to increase their numbers to retake Alfheim (no matter what you might say, I'd never agree that AE and SE can live peacefully in any foreseeable future, but that is another disccussion entirely, and I'll leave to another occasion; btw, I'm back :) This way, any human entering a stable elven society will see so few children he will have to believe the elves are not very fertile. And he would have reported it as a biological fact, instead of a cultural one, having confused us all the time since then. Sounds reasonable to you? I just think this aspect of their culture should be disccussed and detailed somewhere, maybe in the almanac for the next year. >>My opinion is that the elvish society is a stable one, they won't grow very much in number in future years (except maybe the Shadow Elves that have a higher growth rate, see my previous posting). Moreover Gaz5 didn't give me the feeling of the elves as a growing community. This all agrees with my previous discussion. SE will grow faster now, as their culture is preparing to colonize a whole new forest. Gaz5 described a stable society, that had reached the maximum size Cannonbarth could support without endangering the forest itself. This way, they were not a growing comunity. But any species MUST have the potential to grow, if they are to survive the crisis they will face. Andre Martins ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:25:50 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - Jews in Mystara (was something else :) Thanks Andre for some great suggestions - I second the motion that a war happen in 1020 or so, and I furthermore want to propose that we all try to integrate our timelines as much as possible by conferring on the future almanacs and sharing past events. I realize this is difficult but I am not averse even to slightly altering my campaign history if it means I can better make use of this list. I've certainly already done that with the geography of Mystara. As for your estimation of the middle east peace prospects, Andre, I think (I hope and pray) you are too cynical. After all the British and French used to be thought of as irreconcilable enemies for centuries, till the ascendancy of Germany in the 19th century shifted the balance of power. Hatred continues from generation to generation because nation states train their citizens to hate a given enemy - people are not natural haters at all. At least that's my educated guess about the situation. that being said, it still makes sense for the elves to have a very difficult time not killing one another, Mystara being a very violent place and all. The analogy to the RW is interesting when we think about peace though, because Israel has of course gotten to be as powerful as it is partially through massive US support .... take away that support and it might not do so well ... thus the US has leverage to bring peace (now that the cold war is over and the US no longer finds the palestinians quite as threatening, the "soviet threat" being gone). If we think along these lines, we should look at: Who backs the two sides in the Canolbarth war? Elves are pretty self-sufficient but they still need armor, weapons, supplies, food, and probably mercenaries too, all of which come from outside. What involvement in the conflict have powers like Darokin, Rockhome, Karameikos, Kol, and Glantri had? one more thing: i especially like your suggestions as to detect good/evil - - they make a LOT of sense and help resolve one problem in the game design with regard to "that pesky alignment problem". but you've talked mostly about clerics getting spells from immortals. what about wizards? m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Tue, 6 Jan 1998 mar0173@ibm.net wrote: >>At 03:41 4/01/98 +0100, you wrote: >>>>Then many things changed in RW, but we decided to keep the peace process going in Mystara. >>>Weren't you talking about a war in 1020? >That would be me, talking about the war. But the guys in control of the Almanac didn't like the idea. I haven't given up convincing them, just got too many problems in real life to do anything about it in the last year. Maybe I'll use all these paralells with the Middle East and propose new groups for the next year. Elven terrorists trying to destroy the peace proccess by planting fireballs in important buildings and the like, maybe sponsored by one of the entropics. Not that I aggree the SE and AE would even start talking without some other stronger power in the world trying to force them to (no Europe or USA constantly interfering and trying to find peaceful solutions). Shadow Elves are as loved by alfheimers as orcs are; can anyone see a surface elf negotiating with an orc who took their land? Sorry, but it sounds just silly to me. I can understand that's what we all would like to see happening, like peace in the Middle East. But it is completely unrealistic and out-of-character for them to do it. They are bitter enemies, with centuries of hatred in both sides. If you are talking about individuals fighting for peace, that would be all right, but theirs would be a lost fight. Even if Ilsundal were to come to the alfheimers and tell the elves he wished them to live in peace with the Shadow Elves, the peace would be difficult. Many would obey, but he would lose a significant part of his followers. The fact that both elven communities can be understood as "good" doens't mean they will get along. >Btw, I never liked that division of good and bad. The way I see alignments is a more subjective one. Spells that detect it are usually given by Immortals or Gods, so they should be bound to carry the personal judgement of the god. This way, a cleric of Ixion would detect every undead as evil, while Nyx would detect them as good; a priest of Halav would see every gnoll as evil, no matter what the gnoll's actions had really been. Or lawful and chaotic, depending on if the creature detect follows or not the same laws as the Immortal who granted the spell. Of course, there are some extreme cases about which most Immortals would agree, but never all of them. No culture or philosophy thinks of itself as evil, so Thanatos would tell his followers how they are working for the benefit of the world by bringing it death and how those who oppose his views are really wicked. Personally, I would classify him and his followers as evil if I were to descend to simple Immortal status :) but he and his followers certainly don't. No The Truth for my campaigns. >Andre Martins >P.S. Just a small reminder to the people writing the almanac. When all this discussion first appeared some two years ago, we decided it would be better to decide it by vote. I called a voting and the best voted option was a WAR around 1020. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 00:49:52 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen At 19.20 06/01/98 GMT, mar0173@ibm.net wrote: >Please, don't try to explain me what an average means, I am very aware of that (my current post-doctorate research is in Statistical Mechanics). That was never my point. My point, that I might haven't made clear in the original email, is that there will always be children who die before reaching sexual maturity. This way, if, in the average, each two elves have 2 children, in the average each elf will have LESS than 2 mature offspring to perpetuate their species. And their numbers will go down. Simple as that. I could accept your point if what you really means is not what you wrote. Meaning that there is an average of 2 successful offsping per elf couple, something that would probably means 3 children per couple, with 1, in average, dieing before adulthood. If that's what you meant, I agree their numbers wouldn't go down by itself and this part of the discussion would be purely accademical. But see bellow Maybe did not explain myself clearly. Let's make it simpler. Instead of an average of 2 children per couple of elves, let's say an average of 1 children per elf. So each elf has someone who will take his place when he will die. Note: I said 1 children per elf, not 1 children per elf who reaches sexual maturity. Thus if we have 1000 elves they will still have 1000 children even if only 500 of them reaches sexual maturity. >So you are counting even the babies who die two weeks after being born in the number of adult elves who procriate, for average reasons. That would never be the way I'd read your statement, but, if you make it clear that's what you're doing, I have no problem with that. Exactly. >I just find this a very odd >way of saying things, not the natural ones. Me too :-) >Anyway, that would certainly slve the problem of their numbers going down by themselves, but it doesn't solve the problem of the branching. If that was the case, their numbers would never go up and there would be no possibility to create new clans. And they would never recover from wars and plagues. However, I do have a solutions for this, now that I think of it. Maybe there once were really a lot of elves living in peace in Evergrun. Imagine a huge number of elves inhabiting all teh southern continent. >What happens with elves is not that they are genetically predisposed to have few children. Any elf couple could, if they wanted, have 10 or 20 children during their lifetime, just like humans can (and do, in a medieval society). However, they are very aware of their role in the nature and realize that a forest can keep a maximum number of elves, without them having to cut it down to introduce crops that would feed all of them. So, when their society reaches that maximum number, most elven couples decides to reduce the number of the children they'll have. In times of crisis, when their numbers go dangerously down, the ban on big families is raised and every elf is supposed to have children, the more, the better. Nice explanation. Anyway I think elves (A or S doesn't matter) are slowly going to die, like the endangered species in real world. Obviously the Immortals will preserve the elves, but in a very long time there'll be no more elves on the surface. >Like now, for the AE, who >are certainly trying to increase their numbers to retake Alfheim (no matter what you might say, I'd never agree that AE and SE can live peacefully in any foreseeable future, but that is another disccussion entirely, and I'll leave to another occasion; btw, I'm back :) Oh no! I must take cover :-) >This way, any human entering a stable elven society will see so few children he will have to believe the elves are not very fertile. And he would have reported it as a biological fact, instead of a cultural one, having confused us all the time since then. Sounds reasonable to you? Yes. >I just think this aspect of their culture should be disccussed and detailed somewhere, maybe in the almanac for the next year. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #238 ***************************** Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:41:28 -0600 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #239 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Sunday, January 18 1998 Volume 02 : Number 239 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 00:57:57 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - Jews in Mystara (was something else :) At 19.20 06/01/98 GMT, you wrote: >That would be me, talking about the war. But the guys in control of the Almanac didn't like the idea. I haven't given up convincing them, just got too many problems in real life to do anything about it in the last year. Maybe I'll use all these paralells with the Middle East and propose new groups for the next year. Elven terrorists trying to destroy the peace proccess by planting fireballs in important buildings and the like, maybe sponsored by one of the entropics. Good idea. It can fit well with what I've in mind and with Matthew's idea about "Alfheimer refugee camps in Aengmor being policed by Shadow Elves with powerful boltthrowers who gun down teenage surface elves throwing rocks". >Btw, I never liked that division of good and bad. The way I see alignments is a more subjective one. Spells that detect it are usually given by Immortals or Gods, so they should be bound to carry the personal judgement of the god. This way, a cleric of Ixion would detect every undead as evil, while Nyx would detect them as good; a priest of Halav would see every gnoll as evil, no matter what the gnoll's actions had really been. Or lawful and chaotic, depending on if the creature detect follows or not the same laws as the Immortal who granted the spell. Of course, there are some extreme cases about which most Immortals would agree, but never all of them. No culture or philosophy thinks of itself as evil, so Thanatos would tell his followers how they are working for the benefit of the world by bringing it death and how those who oppose his views are really wicked. Personally, I would classify him and his followers as evil if I were to descend to simple Immortal status :) but he and his followers certainly don't. No The Truth for my campaigns. I agree with you but not completely. IMO Thanatos' followers see themeselves as evil because for them the "evil ones" are the good ones :-) They're proud to be evil, just as Ixion followers are proud to be good. Nyx followers consider undead evil, but they know that the evil side is the good one. Sound confusing? Maybe it is... >P.S. Just a small reminder to the people writing the almanac. When all this discussion first appeared some two years ago, we decided it would be better to decide it by vote. I called a voting and the best voted option was a WAR around 1020. Do you remember exactly when this discussion took place? I would like to give a look at old digests looking for lost ideas. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:43:33 GMT From: mar0173@ibm.net Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - Jews in Mystara (was something else :) At 00:57 7/01/98 +0100, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >Good idea. It can fit well with what I've in mind and with Matthew's idea about "Alfheimer refugee camps in Aengmor being policed by Shadow Elves with powerful boltthrowers who gun down teenage surface elves throwing rocks". Good. I realize I am a little late to contribute this year, but let me know when you start disccussing the events for the next one. I do have a couple of ideas I'd like to propose then. >I agree with you but not completely. >IMO Thanatos' followers see themeselves as evil because for them the "evil ones" are the good ones :-) They're proud to be evil, just as Ixion followers are proud to be good. >Nyx followers consider undead evil, but they know that the evil side is the good one. >Sound confusing? Maybe it is... What really sounds confusing is the part on Nyx's followers considering undeads evil. From their point of view, undeads are just a improved state of life, to which all the living beings should evolve to, a state where they'll be freed from death. They can argue very well as how their work is good and not evil. Thanatos would be really harder to argue for, I know I couldn't convince myself, but see things this way. The nazis, or any other group in our recorded history I know about (which isn't that much, anyway), didn't consider themselves evil. Jews were the evil for them, even if jews in Germany did nothing but being massacred. Basically it is just a question of language, but any society or group can find a philosophical reason why they are the right ones, why they are doing what is good. >Do you remember exactly when this discussion took place? I would like to give a look at old digests looking for lost ideas. I can check the dates. I still have the votes saved in my university account and I can check the dates there. I'll try to connect there later and let you know the time. Andre Martins ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:50:08 GMT From: mar0173@ibm.net Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen At 00:49 7/01/98 +0100, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >Nice explanation. Anyway I think elves (A or S doesn't matter) are slowly going to die, like the endangered species in real world. Obviously the Immortals will preserve the elves, but in a very long time there'll be no more elves on the surface. Even using my cultural explanation, elves can be an endangered species. They take just too much time to reach sexual maturity and if they face wars and plagues, they will have a really hard time recovering. Meaning they would be an endangered species anyway. >Oh no! I must take cover :-) Hurry up then :) Andre Martins ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:07:33 GMT From: mar0173@ibm.net Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - Jews in Mystara (was something else :) At 12:25 6/01/98 -0800, Matthew Levy wrote: >Thanks Andre for some great suggestions - I second the motion that a war happen in 1020 or so, and I furthermore want to propose that we all try to integrate our timelines as much as possible by conferring on the future almanacs and sharing past events. I realize this is difficult but I am not averse even to slightly altering my campaign history if it means I can better make use of this list. I've certainly already done that with the geography of Mystara. I agree with that. It would make it very easier if we had some kind of consensus about some major future points. >As for your estimation of the middle east peace prospects, Andre, I think (I hope and pray) you are too cynical. After all the British and French used to be thought of as irreconcilable enemies for centuries, till the ascendancy of Germany in the 19th century shifted the balance of power. Hatred continues from generation to generation because nation states train their citizens to hate a given enemy - people are not natural haters at all. At least that's my educated guess about the situation. I was not saying that we won't have peace in the Middle East soon, although I wouldn't say we will either. My point was that Canolbarth is not the fuel tank for the major powers of the world, who would be interested in seeing the region pacified. Darokin would certainly try to have peace, but Thyatis could use a war where it is not involved to gain time to rebuild its strenght and will certainly be using all its means to insure the WDL will have other problems to face. In the RW, with the USA and Europe working for peace, the region is still very dangerous. Imagine what would happen if the strongest military force in the known world (Thyatis) has interests in the warm, instead of peace. >that being said, it still makes sense for the elves to have a very difficult time not killing one another, Mystara being a very violent place and all. The analogy to the RW is interesting when we think about peace though, because Israel has of course gotten to be as powerful as it is partially through massive US support .... take away that support and it might not do so well ... thus the US has leverage to bring peace (now that the cold war is over and the US no longer finds the palestinians quite as threatening, the "soviet threat" being gone). If we think along these lines, we should look at: Who backs the two sides in the Canolbarth war? Elves are pretty self-sufficient but they still need armor, weapons, supplies, food, and probably mercenaries too, all of which come from outside. What involvement in the conflict have powers like Darokin, Rockhome, Karameikos, Kol, and Glantri had? I disccussed this in very long emails with Herve and Fabrizio once. I proposed some possible alliances, they made me see some of them as unlikely. I don't think we ever got to a consensus, so I should try to reorganize these again. Also, we should include the candidates to Immortality in this picture, as Travestis(?), the evil treant, and Barimor. >one more thing: i especially like your suggestions as to detect good/evil - they make a LOT of sense and help resolve one problem in the game design with regard to "that pesky alignment problem". but you've talked mostly about clerics getting spells from immortals. what about wizards? I knew somebody would ask it. Personally, I feel wizards shouldn't have access to the spells as they require a moral judgement, unless they get some kind of connection to the Immortals. Maybe some clerics have helped the wizards to develop a mage version of the spell that would, in fact, use their own god judgement on the matter. That way, they would be spreading their master's points of view. And nowadays the wizards have forgotten about it and don't know who is the Immortal behind their spells. That might add a lot of confusion when two wizards with different versions of the spell try to know the alignment of a foreigner just arrived in the court and one detects him as evil and the other one as good. And you'd have to include the deity who helped that version of the spell to be created in your notes, for every wizard capable of alignment detection. Andre Martins ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:20:54 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - Jews in Mystara (was something else :) >>Sound confusing? Maybe it is... >What really sounds confusing is the part on Nyx's followers considering undeads evil. From their point of view, undeads are just a improved state of life, to which all the living beings should evolve to, a state where they'll be freed from death. They can argue very well as how their work is good and not evil. Thanatos would be really harder to argue for, I know I couldn't convince myself, but see things this way. The nazis, or any other group in our recorded history I know about (which isn't that much, anyway), didn't consider themselves evil. Jews were the evil for them, even if jews in Germany did nothing but being massacred. Basically it is just a question of language, but any society or group can find a philosophical reason why they are the right ones, why they are doing what is good. This discussion reminds me of something from another game system - the supplement Rolemaster Companion Six, which was put out by ICE but written largely by an Australian philosophy professor whose name I can't remember. Among other interesting tidbits, this book contained an elaborate philosophical contemplation of the motivations of the Unlife, which is a mysterious group in the official Rolemaster world which strongly resembles Nyx's followers. What's so cool is that this professor took arguments from Heidegger, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, etc. and put together a pretty well thought out justification for the bad guys. The basic idea was that they want to eliminate all mortal life and replace it with immortal life, which they see as superior. For this reason they particularly hate elves, who they see as traitors to immortal life (their group is an alliance between dark elves and undead and demons). This seems pretty similar to Nyx's philosophy. I am probably not doing the argument justice - - read the real thing if you ever get the chance. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 21:00:53 -0300 From: "Mario Lapierre" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - Jews in Mystara (was something else :) I disccussed this in very long emails with Herve and Fabrizio once. I proposed some possible alliances, they made me see some of them as unlikely. I don't think we ever got to a consensus, so I should try to reorganize these again. Also, we should include the candidates to Immortality in this picture, as Travestis(?), the evil treant, and Barimor. eh...do you know what travesti mean in french? you should choose another name if you want to create a new immortal, hehehe Sioux Later VZ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:07:37 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - Jews in Mystara (was something else :) >>almanacs and sharing past events. I realize this is difficult but I am not averse even to slightly altering my campaign history if it means I can better make use of this list. I've certainly already done that with the geography of Mystara. >I agree with that. It would make it very easier if we had some kind of consensus about some major future points. cool. let's move on this one, if we can get the major almanac players (that means you Fabrizio and Herve) to agree. >>As for your estimation of the middle east peace prospects, Andre, I think (I hope and pray) you are too cynical. After all the British and French used to be thought of as irreconcilable enemies for centuries, till the ascendancy of Germany in the 19th century shifted the balance of power. Hatred continues from generation to generation because nation states train their citizens to hate a given enemy - people are not natural haters at all. At least that's my educated guess about the situation. >I was not saying that we won't have peace in the Middle East soon, although I wouldn't say we will either. My point was that Canolbarth is not the fuel tank for the major powers of the world, who would be interested in seeing the region pacified. Darokin would certainly try to have peace, but Thyatis could use a war where it is not involved to gain time to rebuild its strenght and will certainly be using all its means to insure the WDL will have other problems to face. In the RW, with the USA and Europe working for peace, the region is still very dangerous. Imagine what would happen if the strongest military force in the known world (Thyatis) has interests in the warm, instead of peace. Yes this is important, and the issue of economic interest is a good point (no oil means different politics) ... what about the Selenica Caravan route? this seems to be the key strategic resource in the region, especially in times when the Streel River trade is insecure (because of Ethengar militarism) ... everything coming from the Northern reaches, Rockhome, and Ylaruam has to move over the mountains from Makistan to Darokin. Either or both groups of elves could threaten this caravan trade. >I disccussed this in very long emails with Herve and Fabrizio once. I proposed some possible alliances, they made me see some of them as unlikely. I don't think we ever got to a consensus, so I should try to reorganize these again. Also, we should include the candidates to Immortality in this picture, as Travestis(?), the evil treant, and Barimor. of course. also, perhaps the Alfheimers have some contacts among elven communities elsewhere in the world? and what about the druids? >their master's points of view. And nowadays the wizards have forgotten about it and don't know who is the Immortal behind their spells. That might add a lot of confusion when two wizards with different versions of the spell try to know the alignment of a foreigner just arrived in the court and one detects him as evil and the other one as good. And you'd have to include the deity who helped that version of the spell to be created in your notes, for every wizard capable of alignment detection. i like the confusion this creates. but maybe wizards just shouldn't have access to this at all. what about druids? (who are neither good nor evil) ------------------------------ Date: 06 Jan 1998 23:15:32 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Schattenalfen >>>>>"F" == Fabrizio Paoli writes: F> Nice explanation. Anyway I think elves (A or S doesn't matter) are F> slowly going to die, like the endangered species in real F> world. Of course, even with each elf having only one child, the population can still continue to rise, depending on life expectancy. Look at the developed countries around the world... those with stable populations have less than 2 children per couple. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Never give an inch! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:50:46 -0800 From: David Keyser Subject: [Mystara] Birthrates >Of course, even with each elf having only one child, the population can still continue to rise, depending on life expectancy. Look at the developed countries around the world... those with stable populations have less than 2 children per couple. This conversation about birth rates is getting confusing, I will make an unsolicited attempt to clarify. The only way a population can be stable is if every generation produces just enough children so that this next generation will equal the reproduction of the previous generation. This is in total numbers not averages. As has been mentioned before, a birthrate of 2 children per couple means a declining population, because some children will die before producing offspring of their own, and others will not have offspring. The most reliable calculations I have seen for modern day nations is 2.2 children per couple in developed countries, and 3.2 children per couple in developing countries. This rate will mean a zero or slightly increasing population. It is true that if life expectancy increases, than populations with a lower birthrate than 2.2 will increase, but this is true only for the short-term. Unless life expectancy hits immortality, a population with a birthrate of less than 2.2 will eventually start to decrease. And populations increase or decrease exponentially. The US and most European countries do not have a stable population, their populations are dying out. In the case of the US, total population is increasing, but only because of immigration, not because the current generation is replacing itself with more children. This is pure mathematics, so everything said here applies equally to Mystara. Because elves live longer, the overall trend in population growth/reduction is slower to become apparent than it does in the real world, but it still proceeds. If a race has a reproduction rate equal to 2 or less, than it is a dying race. It will become extinct unless the trend is reversed somewhere along the line. Dave Keyser ------------------------------ Date: 07 Jan 1998 16:36:13 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: WotI vs Immortal rules >>>>>"C" == Chris Paul Billows writes: C> I have heard many references to the Wrath of the Immortals box set C> replacing tbe Gold Box Set #5 called the Immortal Rules? How does C> it replace it? Is not WotI more campaign/mystara specific? WotI includes, along with the campaign adventure and Mystara pantheon, updated rules on immortality. It includes pretty much everything I saw in the gold box and more. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted He is considered a most graceful speaker who can say nothing in the most words. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:27:51 EST From: DUFFISGOD Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Schattenalfen I know its a forgotten realms book and not a Mystara book but in the dark elf trilogy and the series' after that it shows an elf (Drizzt Do'Urden) go through all the stages of life(birth skool metallica death) in sixty odd years. He is far from immature and completes a well rounded adventuring career. but if you think about it he is spending most of his time Discovering himself something most humans do in their teenage years."After the GRoF the elvish race was probably short of supplies, so they had to set up certain regulations to prevent overpopulation. Modern day elves (Alfheim, Wendar, Callarii...) don't need those strict regulations any more and probably forgot about them, but Shadow Elves, who live in a harsh environnement, and those clans who went (or were moved) to the HW just after the GRoF still follow those customs." The habits which im speaking are the leaving of babies which is described in the Refuge Of Stone and is done because the deformations are caused by exposure to the radience. the casting out of the wanderes Also in the Refuge of Stone is because it sends followers of Rafiel to other lands(to spread his influence) and to key points in citys controlled by other immortals ie.oenkmar. it is also stated in the dms companion in gaz 13 that Rafiel guides both of theses individuals. Should I apply to be a tsr thug or what? duff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:30:42 EST From: Agadga Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen Andre Martins wrote... >This all agrees with my previous discussion. SE will grow faster now, as their culture is preparing to colonize a whole new forest. After reading material on the SE, it seemed to me that the greatest number of them were coming back to the surface world. If this is so, does not this migration serve to fully populate their new land? Perhaps I missed something about which one or more of my esteemed list-mates can provide better information. Andre, I thought your societal analysis in re. SE reproductive practices, while giving me a shiver in their 'shades of ______ (insert country name here)' officially enforced practice, was quite good. Well thought out. ConorS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:42:10 GMT From: mar0173@ibm.net Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen At 13:30 8/01/98 EST, Agadga wrote: >Andre Martins wrote... >>This all agrees with my previous discussion. SE will grow faster now, as >their culture is preparing to colonize a whole new forest. >After reading material on the SE, it seemed to me that the greatest number of them were coming back to the surface world. If this is so, does not this migration serve to fully populate their new land? Perhaps I missed something about which one or more of my esteemed list-mates can provide better information. I don't have their numbers moving up already in my mind, but they will want to grow anyway, as they still control the underground and now control the forest. If the forest will be capable of supporting as many SE as they would expect it to do after the changes it suffered remain to be seen, but their area did increase allowing for slightly bigger families. >Andre, I thought your societal analysis in re. SE reproductive practices, while giving me a shiver in their 'shades of ______ (insert country name here)' officially enforced practice, was quite good. Well thought out. As a matter of fact, I didn't specifically restricted the practice to SE, but created it to include AE and other elves also. Probably, the tendency to control the number of children is as old as Evergrun. Anyway, I understand your problem with it very well, but it can be done in different ways. SE follow the guidance of Rafiel and his shamans might have kept the idea that they must fit the environment alive, expanding when heir numbers are down and then stabilizing. The believes of the shamans tend to be enforced strongly in SE society, so that would be easy. About surface elves, I remember reading somewhere (maybe it was in the RC) that elves obey their leader and the Treekeeper to the point that they will be confused when faced with different orders from them. That indicates that they tend to do what they are told to much more than humans. Their society may appear as free, but just because elves want to do what their society wants them to. Their longer lifespan might explain for that, they are doctrinated for a longer time before reaching adulthood and the ideas taught to them go deeper than in humans. And don't forget they are almost a different species, with so many differences that their brains might work differently. This way, it wouldn't be something like the State wants you to have more or less children but a group awareness of their environment causing them to adjust their reproductive patterns. Maybe it is as biological as social. I remember have read or heard about animal species who naturally adjust their reproduction depending on their number and availability of food. Elves could do just that. Anyone out there with the proper trainment (biologist, social scientists, psychologists, etc) wishing to detail and explain this better? Andre Martins ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:15:49 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Water circle of Alphatia - ---------- >From: mar0173@ibm.net >To: mystara-l@lists.io.com >Subject: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Water circle of Alphatia Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 7:20 PM >Hi, >I have sent 4 emails to the list at mpgn, but didn't see any of them back. >This way, I am resending them, this time to the soon to be dead io list. >Leroy, do I have to use the account where I receive the list emails to be able to post? Sorry for being late. Have been away from my computer. Yes, you have ot use an account that is subscribed. To send mail from the account"mar0173@ibm.net" you need to be subscribed with that account. Hope that helps! Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:31:47 -0600 From: mainman@hothotmail.com Subject: [Mystara] Save 10% - 40% on your Electric Bill! This is a professional and ethical commercial message. If you would like to be removed immediately from future mailings please put "REMOVE" in the subject area and send. Dear Friend: Imagine Utility Savings of 10% - 40%! now imagine being a marketer of those savings and earning a recurring monthly commission on the Utility usage of consumers throughout the country... Call (407) 672-6886 for 24 hr., 1 min message Effective Jan '98, Electric Utility Monopolies will be dissolved on a State-by-State basis opening a $215 Billion Dollar industry to free-market competition. We need independent "Electric Power Marketers" in all 50 States especially California and the Northeast. Build a leveraged, recurring income in as little as 10-15 hours/week. Full training and support; minimal start-up; lucrative. We are the #1 organization in the company. We have created a simple process so you and your guests can get all the information to make an informed business decision. This process has allowed our representatives to make thousands already. We have the best support systems with private FOD and Conference calls daily just for you. Be first in your area. Call 407-672-6886 for 24hr, 1 min. message or reply with name and phone to Data5@hothotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 21:26:17 PST From: "Grover White" Subject: [Mystara] Remove - ---------- >This is a professional and ethical commercial message. If you would like to be removed immediately from future mailings please put "REMOVE" in the subject area and send. >Dear Friend: >Imagine Utility Savings of 10% - 40%! now imagine being a marketer of those savings and earning a recurring monthly commission on the Utility usage of consumers throughout the country... >Call (407) 672-6886 for 24 hr., 1 min message >Effective Jan '98, Electric Utility Monopolies will be dissolved on a State-by-State basis opening a $215 Billion Dollar industry to free-market competition. >We need independent "Electric Power Marketers" in all 50 States especially California and the Northeast. Build a leveraged, recurring income in as little as 10-15 hours/week. Full training and support; minimal start-up; lucrative. >We are the #1 organization in the company. We have created a simple process so you and your guests can get all the information to make an informed business decision. This process has allowed our representatives to make thousands already. We have the best support systems with private FOD and Conference calls daily just for you. >Be first in your area. Call 407-672-6886 for 24hr, 1 min. message or reply with name and phone to Data5@hothotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 98 00:02:55 -0300 From: "Mario Lapierre" Subject: [Mystara] remove ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:38:51 +1100 From: Karl Uebergang Subject: [Mystara] remove ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:41:04 +1100 From: Karl Uebergang Subject: [Mystara] I hate Junk mail Dont you just hate the way people decide that thier trash is our bussiness. I hate junk mail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:42:28 +1100 From: Karl Uebergang Subject: Re: [Mystara] remove Man I hate junk mail why people bother to do use the curtasy of sending us junk just because were on a mailing list is beyond me! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 01:38:00 EST From: 10676100@juno.com Subject: [Mystara] Business Report News! Sorry for the intrusion but I must get this great news out to everyone.We have discovered some amazing reports, business software and systems that we think are worthy of mentioning. Here are just a few.... #1-Horse and Dog players! Stop Handicapping!Bet two numbers per race!One minute system!Picks up to 80% money makers per race day! No handicapping guaranteed!Guaranteed money maker! So Stop!Don't place another bet until you get Bet-2! For complete details by ground mail:Send $2.00 P/H (refundable) To:J.E. LETT-Dept.GA 33 West 125th Place Chicago,IL 60628-7307 ACT NOW!! #2-LOTTO PLAYERS BE AWARE! Lottery agents are stealing over $120 million a year from americans.Claiming to purchase to a lottery that they will never win a dime. Find out why! How you and I could end up in jail for entering these illegal games....See the Feds as the stand in a mail room filled with cash,checks and money orders taken from these illegal agents.Watchout you could be next! This is a 100% true report,a must read report!For complete details on how to own this must read report, Rush $2.00 P/H (refundable) To: J.E. LETT Dept GB 33 West125th Place Chicago,IL60628-7307 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:29:33 +1300 From: Liam Jones Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spam It appears that the address has found its way onto a spam list that is now circulating around various unsolicited commercial emailers (two so far). List owner if you can I would advise that you turn the option on to prevent non list subscribers the ability to post. Thsi should stop the problem. What to do about UCE: Junk mailers are now moving from collecting their email addresses from usenet to collecting them off web pages. As a priority people should not put any more email address directly onto web pages unless they wish to have junk mail sent to them. If you want hints to deal with the problem of junk email then I would advise reading the good advice given in aadvark in this weeks column at: http://www.aardvark.co.nz/av980112.htm Sorry about the off topic stuff but I hate junk mail. Liam - -------------------------------------------------------- Liam Jones Wellington, New Zealand liamj@iconz.co.nz ICQ: 2272869 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:55:55 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Thyatian origins << I think you're right. Finnegar's Watch could be like some sort of memorial/lighthouse in honour of the fallen among the first efforts at colonization. >> For all who don't nothing about Finnegar's Watch, an excerpt from "Talons of the night". "Located near the western coast of the northern half of the island, Finnegar's Watch is the only mountain on the Isla of Dawn. The 4,000-foot-high extinct volcano occupies much of its map hex. Finnegar was an ancient Dunadalian hero who supposedly made first contact with Immortals here. Atop the mountain's east slope is an immovable, weathered golden throne, Finnegar's gift to his long-forgotten patron." Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, as the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:33:16 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Adventures in Alphatia pt2 Ambur- Ambur is fairly tame. I see it as a small version of Darokin. The stand out notions are the theatre and astrology. I admit to not doing much adventuring there. In fact, I used it as a stopping place to relax and spend some of that loot. The party that did go there stayed only a short period as it became boring. To give some examples of adventures for Ambur, I gave a call to an old gaming friend. Between the two of us, we came up with a couple of ideas. All of which are pre-WotI. Adventure #1 based on a real adventure A few months back, the Thieves Guild was approached by an actress who wishes to acquire the amulet. Her reasons are exactly what they appear to be; to keep the art clean. The Thieves Guilds in most parts of Alphatia are handicapped in their pursuits by the surplus of magic. The Guild in Ambur share this burden. To compensate and survive they have turned their attentions to smuggling, loansharking, and "the entertainment field". The amulet job was excepted to save face. As expected, the Guild is too rusty to gain the amulet. Since the real employer has already paid them half of the money up front, they are compelled to continue. They cannot return the money as most of it has been "invested" in other ventures. With each failed attempt the Guild has gotten more desperate. In this state, they have hired the PCs to retreive the amulet. They will give the party the balance of the money owed them by the real employer. The Guild gets one of its own to act as the real employer. He is an actor by trade. His parents are of the Guild. The Guild has often used him to interact between the Guild and the Alphatian Mages. He is well cultured and a formidable magist in his own right. He also has some fairly good contacts with the mages as well as his ties with the Guild. He will tell his reasons for wanting the amulet as the same as the reasons the real employer has given. The real employer is an Alphatian Mage that is an active patron of the performing arts. She is quite sincere at her attempts to keep her beloved theatre clean of posers. She discovered the truth behind the actor's skill some time ago. As a high standing member of Alphatian society, she will not soil her hands with the matter. She prefers to pay others to do the task for her. She is getting impatient with the lack of response from the Guild. She has already sent word of her concerns and hinted at seeking others to do the job. The PCs could discover that the supposed employer is of the Guild and that the promised payment is half of what could be acheived by working directly for the real employer. The Guild will obviously take offense at this and will be hard pressed to refund the forwarded money to the employer. As such, they will be quite displeased with the PCs. The target is a minor mage and a fair actor. The main strength of this NPC comes from the multitude of admirers that flaunt their praise and money upon him. The amulet as well as several other enchanted items fill out the inventory. BTW the amulet and items were presents from a patron that the actor has long since done away with. The Amulet gives the wearer a +4 to the Acting Skill. It also affords the wearer a +2 to Charisma. The actor has a big performance coming soon. The real employer wishes to have the amulet in hand prior to this in order to expose him as a fraud in front of everyone. As you might guess, the actor not getting harmed by the PCs is highly stressed. If the real employer wanted the poser killed, she would have done so herself. She sees exposing him as the best option. Whatever happens, the PCs will gain some prestige if their involvement in the matter is known. The Guild doesn't really want the attention but also doesn't want the fact that they had to go outside the Guild to get the job done to get out. The are even willing to up the ante to buy this secrecy. If any of the Guild gains any attention then it will be the pseudo employer and he will distance himself from the Guild. An increase of prestige on his part will only aid the Guild in the long run. Adventure #2 rough idea A crisis has befallen StarReach. Its up to the DM but anything will suffice. A lich, a vampire, or even a reappearing villian of the PCs could all set up shop in the capital. The baddies are playing things smart and acting like good upstanding citizens. All the while, they are continuing in their certain expertise of evil. The PCs see them for what they are and go about trying vanquish the city of the threat. They are hampered by a sense of disbelief and disinterest by the Alphatian mages. The DM should utilize the Law to handicap the PCs. Also a great opportunity to show the frivilous nature of the Alphatians. The PCs must find evidence and more importantly find NPCs they can count on to show this evidence to. Once this has been done, the PCs will be able to do as they please concerning the threat. They may even have the blessing of the Ambur elite. But don't forget a strong warning by them to not make a mess in the process. Depending on the threat and the evidence, the threat may be out of the range of the PCs. Aid from the Alphatians is feasible. Adventure #3 based upon an actual adventure An Alphatian astrologer has sighted a strange occurance while studying the Mystaran moon Matera. Using Detect spells and such, he has noticed influxes of powerful magics coming from the surface. Presenting his findings to his fellows, he has been joined and supported in sending an expedition there to investigate. The PCs are hired to suppliment the contengent of adventurers and crew aboard a skyship capable of travel through the Void. The influx is the gateway to the Immortal City of Pandius. On the moon, the party will encounter all manner of beasts, some unknown to Mystara proper. Eventually, they will come to the gateway. What happens from there is up to the DM. The PCs and NPCs could enter the Immortal City. The reception may vary from experiences the players have had with Immortals in the past. Either way, any visit no matter how long can be balanced out gamewise as the Immortals erase all memory of it from their minds. Adventure #4 based on a under construction campaign. An Alphatian Astrologer discovers some alarming predictions while reading the astral bodies. He sees the fore telling of the events described in the Wrath of the Immortals and resulting sinking of Alphatia. None of his contemporaries beleive him, so he is forced to act on his own. He hires the PCs to thwart the demise of Alphatia be confronting the foretold threats. The DM is urged to make the predictions vague. And I would suggest keeping away from the Immortal's Fury. Instead focus on events the PCs could not address. The main reason for this adventure is to give another facet to the Great War. Who knows, maybe the PCs on this adventure could meet up with those playing the Immortal's Fury. Could be interesting. I am sure the other Immortals inspired followers to act on their and their side's behalf. Well here is that chance. Just imagine pro Alphatian PCs trying to stop Thincol from joining the Glantri cause. Or pro Alphatian PCs getting the elf spy out of Glantri before Brannart can "fit him with cement shoes". Have fun with it. Fill in some of those spots that you may of felt were ommitted from WotI. Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to alter the entire events as described in WotI. PCs don't always suceed in their adventures. Point them in directions where they seem to suceed yet circumstances beyond their control cause the given canon chain of events to basically happen. Next installment....... Ar yep I'm going down the list. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #239 ***************************** Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:03:30 -0600 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #240 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 61e9267a93abf2cef008d2e2b419d44f mystara-digest Monday, January 26 1998 Volume 02 : Number 240 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:20:30 +1200 From: John Howell Subject: [Mystara] [MYSTARA] - An intercepted Message... The young battle mage spent several minutes searching for his own camp, so well camouflaged had it become in his short absence. Guiding his wyvern down, he passed the reigns to a waiting foot soldier and moved quickly to the commander's tent. He was expected. "Kaream! Back so soon? I am impressed." The squad's commander reclined in luxury within his spacious tent. Kaream prostrated himself before his superior. "Salim your excellency. I bring good news." The mage produced a small wad of paper from a saddle bag he had carried in. "I intercepted one of the riders of the infidels. It appears he was a messenger of some sort." Kaream passed on the papers, "Unfortunately all of the writings appear to be in some sort of military code - it may take some time to break it." The commander chuckled, "The messenger probably knows the code, you will just have to convince him to tell us about it Kaream!" The tanned mage looked uncomfortable. "I am afraid not your excellency. My mount stung him during the battle and he expired." The only reply to Kaream's comment was an unhappy looking frown. A small shiver of fear snuck up the mage's back - frowns like that had killed people before... Kaream heard a screech from the direction where the animals were being stabled, and recognised it as coming from his own mount. He sincerely hoped that the beast was at least suffering indigestion for the pain it had caused him. "But there is one document that is not coded your excellency, I think you might find it quite interesting." Kaream passed a single sheet of paper to his leader. The commander recognised it as Thyatian instantly. He despised having to read the barbarian's unruly script, but could do it well enough whe he had to. He began to read: - -------------- To Calarisa Malan, Of House Toney, Darokin City. 17th Newmont, 999AC My dearest Clara, I hope this letter finds you in good health. I do not know if it will even reach you, so unusual is its method of convenience. I write to you from a village called Pramayna on the shores of the Asanda river. I do not blame you if you have never heard of it, because until a few days ago neither had I. Lets just say that it is on the furthermost extremes of the Known World, on the very border of the Sind Wastes. Two days ago I arrived with the small squad of men your father and I scratched together. We were tired and travel sore, but I reported to the garrison commander immediately. He was too busy to see me - although I stressed to his second how urgent the matter was. I finally met with him later that night. He is a rather self-important man called Sarras, whose motto appears to be that "every problem can be solved given ample bureaucracy". Sarras `informed' me that as my men were part of the Darokin Diplomatic Corps he could requisition them. And so he did. I stormed out of his presence in a cold furry. Those men were meant to be part of a force to infiltrate the forces menacing our country. I fear that just absorbing them into the reserves will turn them into little more than cannon folder for the desert nomads to play with. My men will be sent to join the main battle group tomorrow morning, along with everybody else in this accursed village. Fortunately my trip appears not to have been wasted. I have met a small group of individual who share a line of thought similar to my own, and who are committed to making a difference. They are lead by an elf called Turadyl Feadal - the bravest individual I have ever met. I have already seen him rescue a complete stranger from the jaw of some sort of demon spawn, at much personal risk and pain to himself. A Karameikan named Rodrik is also part of the group. He is a prickly warrior, more than a little abrupt and harsh at times, but good man to have at your back during a fight. We are joined by a strange pair. A robed mage called Alexander, and his apprentice Meltar. Their interest in this cause is a little unclear, but their power in magic is beyond dispute. We intend to head up river, and from there into the desert. Perhaps then we can find this `Master' and put an end to his reign of terror. My darling, this is the hardest part of the letter to write. If we were normal people I would tell you, no, beg of you to wait for me. But your responsibilities are anything but normal. As you are your father's only child you must think of the future of our house. Your father is strong, but no longer a young man. It would certainly ease his mind if you found another. Please think no more of me. But if it would help you to know of my progress, you may ask the sears to seek out the oracle at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6239/ Or even better, perhaps the mages might be able to lurch in the astral plane at: majordomo@phoenyx.net By using the subscribe spell. No matter if you do this or not, please continue your life without me. We both owe it to your father. With Fondest Regards, Cronwyn Thraddan. The commander laughed cruelly. "If all of the Republic's forces show such sentimentality, we will be in the streets of Akesoli by autumn!". The old man stroked the coarse beard that was pretty much compulsory in the Hulean military. "Hmm... The reserves left Pramayna this morning did they?", he asked himself, "Perhaps we should organise a little welcome for them..." "Kaream! You have done adequately today. Now I wish you to head upriver and intercept this small group. Find them and kill them." The mage bounded to his feet and backed out of the tent with the requisit bows. He was on his mount within minutes and heading back north. By the sounds of it this group of `adventurers' would be small enough to pose little problem to him. Perhaps the trolls he had found and bribed yesterday would appreciate the chance for a free lunch. Yes, he had a good feeling about his one... - -------------- Hi all, I am a played in a great PBeM game, based around the X4 & X5 modules (The Master of the Desert Nomads & The Temple of Death). If you want to take a look at the story, please come to: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6239/ Regards, John Howell. Christchurch, New Zealand. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:15:00 -0600 From: mainman@tech-planet.com Subject: [Mystara] Worldwide Electric Deregulation is Coming... This is a professional commercial message. If you would like to be removed immediately from future mailings please put "REMOVE" in the subject area and send. Dear Friend: Imagine Utility Savings of 10% - 40%! Now imagine being a marketer of those savings and earning a recurring monthly commission on the Utility usage of consumers throughout the country... We're looking for business partners interested in positioning to capitalize on the coming Deregulation of the Electric Utility Industry. Click Here To Visit our Website for More Details http://206.250.205.116/utilities Or Call (407) 262-9823 for 24 hr., 1 min message ___________________________________________________________ Effective in 1998, Electric Utility Monopolies will be dissolved on a State-by-State basis opening a $215 Billion Dollar industry to free-market competition. Fortunes were made with Deregulation of Long Distance Telephone. It's now happening with Electricity. We need independent "Electric Power Marketers" in all 50 States especially California and the Northeast. Tired of 9 to 5? Build a leveraged, recurring income in as little as 10-15 hours/week. Full training & support; minimal start-up; very lucrative. Ready for a change in 1998? The timing couldn't be better. Be the first in your area before someone else is. (Serious Inquiries Only) Click Here To Visit our Website for More Details http://206.250.205.116/utilities Or Call 407-262-9823 for 24hr, 1 min. message ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:37:35 -0500 From: "Wesley Dean" Subject: [Mystara] REMOVE - -----Original Message----- From: mainman@tech-planet.com To: mystara-l@io.com Date: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 12:32 PM Subject: [Mystara] Worldwide Electric Deregulation is Coming... >This is a professional commercial message. If you would like to be removed immediately from future mailings please put "REMOVE" in the subject area and send. >Dear Friend: >Imagine Utility Savings of 10% - 40%! Now imagine being a marketer of those savings and earning a recurring monthly commission on the Utility usage of consumers throughout the country... >We're looking for business partners interested in positioning to capitalize on the coming Deregulation of the Electric Utility Industry. >Click Here To Visit our Website for More Details >http://206.250.205.116/utilities >Or Call (407) 262-9823 for 24 hr., 1 min message ___________________________________________________________ >Effective in 1998, Electric Utility Monopolies will be dissolved on a State-by-State basis opening a $215 Billion Dollar industry to free-market competition. >Fortunes were made with Deregulation of Long Distance Telephone. It's now happening with Electricity. >We need independent "Electric Power Marketers" in all 50 States especially California and the Northeast. Tired of 9 to 5? Build a leveraged, recurring income in as little as 10-15 hours/week. Full training & support; minimal sstart-up; very lucrative. >Ready for a change in 1998? The timing couldn't be better. >Be the first in your area before someone else is. (Serious Inquiries Only) >Click Here To Visit our Website for More Details >http://206.250.205.116/utilities >Or Call 407-262-9823 for 24hr, 1 min. message ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:05:14 -0500 (EST) From: "Todd M. Helfter" Subject: [Mystara] REMOVE >This is a professional commercial message. If you would like to be removed immediately from future mailings please put "REMOVE" in the subject area and send. >Dear Friend: >Imagine Utility Savings of 10% - 40%! Now imagine being a marketer of those savings and earning a recurring monthly commission on the Utility usage of consumers throughout the country... >We're looking for business partners interested in positioning to capitalize on the coming Deregulation of the Electric Utility Industry. >Click Here To Visit our Website for More Details >http://206.250.205.116/utilities >Or Call (407) 262-9823 for 24 hr., 1 min message ___________________________________________________________ >Effective in 1998, Electric Utility Monopolies will be dissolved on a State-by-State basis opening a $215 Billion Dollar industry to free-market competition. >Fortunes were made with Deregulation of Long Distance Telephone. It's now happening with Electricity. >We need independent "Electric Power Marketers" in all 50 States especially California and the Northeast. Tired of 9 to 5? Build a leveraged, recurring income in as little as 10-15 hours/week. Full training & support; minimal start-up; very lucrative. >Ready for a change in 1998? The timing couldn't be better. >Be the first in your area before someone else is. (Serious Inquiries Only) >Click Here To Visit our Website for More Details >http://206.250.205.116/utilities >Or Call 407-262-9823 for 24hr, 1 min. message - -- .------------------------------. | Todd M. Helfter | | tmh@purdue.edu | `------------------------------' ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jan 1998 12:36:53 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: A New Idea for Skills >>>>>"G" == Glenn Butcher writes: G> A powerful, skilled, elderly magic user may know G> much on the nature of the outer planes, but that doesn't stop the G> powerful, skilled, elderly warrior from knowing much on the nature G> of blacksmithing. This rule still isn't stopping that warrior from knowing much on the nature of blacksmithing. It's just saying that smarter people can know more about more topics. In the real world, some people pick things up faster than others, regardless of profession. Why shouldn't this bwe the case in D&D? - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Sinner: A stupid person who gets found out. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:22:34 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN] Shall We Try This Again? Guess I need to send this again... Please note #2 Mystarans, As many have noticed, the list was spammed. With this I feelt he need to point out a few things... 1) When the list is spammed I get a definite sense of how much people care about the list. How? The amount of e-mail I recieve. The motivation behind this is very cool; you like the list and don't like seeing it messed with. I appreciate that Still, at the risk of sounding like a grump, I have to ask that you refrain. With this last spamming alone I recieved 14 e-letters indicating we were spammed and something needed to be done about it. I once recieved nearly 30 such letters after a spamming incident early last year. Fear not, though, because I notice these things like everyone else. The moment I see spam on the list I send off several letters of complaint to those who might have the power to put a stop to it, such as the originating addresses postmaster. Rest assured something is being done. 2) Similar to the above, if the list is spammed, please do not post anything to the list about it. The end result is basically more spam. If the spam post indicates anything about removal, please don't send such requests to the list, since that is unlikely to achieve anything. 3) If you feel the need to write an e-letter of complaint, go ahead and send it privately to someone who might be able to help us out. The addresses I get the best results from are... The original senders address postmaster@whatever.domain admin@whatever.domain administrator@whatever.domain Again, I will be doing the same. Make sure you mention the address of the list, and always be polite. Site admins have better things to do than help rude people. 4) This list, unlike the last one, is closed to non-subscribers. This does not necessarilly stop people from spammnig us, as all they have to do is subscribe. After they have hit us I can then go ahead and unsubscribe them, which I will do. 5) Finally, the words you did not want to hear... spam is currently a fact of life, one everyone will have to get used to until someone passes a law making it illegal. If we get spammed, the best thing to do is delete it and move on. People always ask, "Isn't there something you can do? Some sort of drastic measures you can take?" And the answer to this is "No." Even with the list being closed we will still see spam. I have seen spam on every list I am on (and I am on about 15 or more). Thank you for your time. Good gaming! Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:53:42 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [Mystara] [ADMIN] I'm Really Not A Jerk (was: Shall We Try This Again?) After recieving this back through the list, I glanced at it and thought, "Man, what a jerk!" Hope no one takes my tone wrong. I wasn't being impatient or anything. I just thought some might benefit from seeing this post again, since we have had a rash of recent subscriptions. BTW, in case you didn't notice, the spam was posted to the old list (at io.com), which seems to still be up, despite the fact my account is history. Feel free to unsub yourself to reduce you spam intake. Anyway... - ---------- >From: Leroy Van Camp III To: mystara-l@lists.io.com >Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN] Shall We Try This Again? Date: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 5:22 PM >Guess I need to send this again... >Please note #2 >Mystarans, >As many have noticed, the list was spammed. With this I feelt he need to point out a few things... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:49:29 +0800 From: Glenn Butcher Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: A New Idea for Skills Alan Shutko rambled (ats@acm.org): >>>>>>"G" == Glenn Butcher writes: >G> A powerful, skilled, elderly magic user may know G> much on the nature of the outer planes, but that doesn't stop the G> powerful, skilled, elderly warrior from knowing much on the nature G> of blacksmithing. >This rule still isn't stopping that warrior from knowing much on the nature of blacksmithing. It's just saying that smarter people can know more about more topics. Yes, but the proposed difference is considerable. In the real world, smarter people don't tend to have more skills. What skills they do ahve are considered better tho. Knowledge of astrophysics is considered better than knowledge of manual labour. In *D&D, both would be respresented by a skill slot. The number of skills someone has is more related to the amount of time they spend learning skills and applying themselves. Smarter people will learn quicker while they are actually learning. Most people don't spend a significant proportion of their life learning, after they complete the initial training for their field. (This is skewed by universities, in which most people who _work_ there will learn more). >in the real world, some people pick things up faster than others, regardless of profession. Why shouldn't this bwe the case in D&D? I agree, and you are hitting the nail on the head: "regardless of profession". Why shouldn't the warrior be quite skilled at blacksmithing, or muscle? Shouldn't the talented warrior be good at blacksmithing, just as the talented mage is good at astrology? Glenn - -- mailto:knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | If you were blowing things up, what you mailto:glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au | rather use: two high levels or 1,024 http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | 1st levels? - Seymour Cray on parallel | adventuring ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:32:07 -0500 From: Aron Reif Subject: Re: [Mystara] REMOVE At 01:05 PM 1/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >>This is a professional commercial message. If you would like to be removed immediately from future mailings please put "REMOVE" in the subject area and send. >>Dear Friend: >>Imagine Utility Savings of 10% - 40%! Now imagine being a marketer of those savings and earning a recurring monthly commission on the Utility usage of consumers throughout the country... STOP THIS!!! It's bad enough that I have to read it once, but I'm tired of seeing it quoted back to me 3 or 4 more times. If you have to send the "remove" message back, send it to the guy who sent the message, not to the MML. Aron Reif areif@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:06:45 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: [Mystara] Welcome to the Jungle... Ah, another mailing list, another fifty e-mails a day... Hello, everyone, allow me to introduce myself. My name is Glen Sprigg, and Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:03:30 -0600 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #240 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 61e9267a93abf2cef008d2e2b419d44f I am a long-time D&D/Mystara fan. (Ooh, big surprise; why else would he be here?) I hope to be able to contribute something useful, while enjoying the tremendous benefits of hearing the ideas of dozens (hundreds?) of fellow Mystarans. I suppose I should begin with a small contribution... ******************************************* THE SHIELD OF THE WINDS A Lesser Artifact of the Sphere of Thought Created by Diulanna (OD&D rules from WotI) The Shield of the Winds was one of the first artifacts created by Diulanna, shortly after she ascended to Immortality. It was first used on Mystara by the Milenian hero Perias who used its power to defeat a greater medusa, among many other heroic quests. When the hero died, the Shield was passed to his successor, who was killed in battle with a fierce minotaur. The Shield was lost for a long time, but eventually was unearthed by a band of giants who had moved into the area where the Milenians had once lived. The giants, in conflict with Hinterland barbarians, finally offered the shield as part of a peace offering, never knowing its true value. The Hinterlanders accepted the shield, and one of their priests was informed in a dream of the Shield's true value. He told his tribal leaders, who then began arguing over who should carry the wondrous item. The squabble became quite spirited, and several fatalities resulted. Then, a young Hinterlander stole the shield and fled, hoping to stop the fighting by removing the cause. He disappeared into unknown parts, and was never heard from again. Characteristics: Shield +4 (20 PP) Powers: Fly (25 PP) Predict Weather (10 PP) Gaseous Form (30 PP) Weather Control (80 PP) Invisibility (20 PP) Shield (10 PP) Reflection (15 PP) Totals: 210 PP Activation: Reflection, Predict Weather, Invisibility and Shield all work by mere concentration. To Fly, the wielder holds the shield in the air and calls the wind to carry him. Gaseous Form is activated by gripping the shield at the edges and holding it tightly against the body while praying to Diulanna. Weather Control requires holding the shield in both hands high in the air, praying to Diulanna, and commanding the spirits of air to produce the desired weather effect. Handicaps: The wielder of the Shield of the Winds becomes claustrophobic for as long as the Shield is possessed, and for 60 days following; the wielder must make a Wisdom check whenever he enters a cavern, and every four hours he remains in one. Failure means the wielder will immediately head for the surface, stopping only to defend himself or to rest. Once the surface is reached, the wielder will not attempt to re-enter the cavern for at least a day (Wisdom check required daily to enter a cavern). Note that houses and other civilized buildings are not considered caverns. In addition, the wielder suffers a -2 saving throw from earth-based attacks, including earth elementals and earthquake damage, as long as the shield is possessed. Penalties: Whenever Invisibility is invoked, there is a 10% chance that the wielder will assume Gaseous Form unwillingly; this penalty does drain the normal TP from the artifact (30 TP). When Weather Control is invoked, there is a 70% chance that the wielder will lose 1d6 points of Strength and Constitution due to the power invoked; this effect lasts as long as the Weather Control effect. Whenever the Reflection power is used, the character has a 10% chance of Fumbling and dropping the shield if it is struck by a spell of higher than 2nd level. The character requires two full rounds to recover the shield and properly wield it again. Every time the Shield blocks a spell, the chance for another Fumble increases 5% until it is dropped, at which time the chance is 10% again. ********************************** Right now, the Shield is the object of a quest, part of an NPC's Path to Immortality in the Sphere of Thought. However, who knows where it will turn up? That Hinterlander could have ended up anywhere, and so could the Shield... If anyone finds a use for this artifact, let me know! May your blades be ever-sharp! Glen Sprigg Barrie, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:31:25 -0500 From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: A New Idea for Skills Glenn Butcher wrote: >Yes, but the proposed difference is considerable. In the real world, smarter people don't tend to have more skills. What skills they do ahve are considered better tho. Knowledge of astrophysics is considered better than knowledge of manual labour. In *D&D, both would be respresented by a skill slot. Just one skill slot? Maybe, but think of all the other slots related to it. That is why for very advanced skills, I often use pre-requisite skills. Like, to obtain the astrophysics skill, you would need the skills calculus, physics, classical mechanics, quantum theory, etc., etc. That is where I see a balance being created. The smarter people _do_ have more skills, because more skills are needed to form a foundation of knowledge required for later ones. This, of course assumes that you are looking at skills in the broken down, modular way that they are used in D&D/AD&D. It is efficient for game purposes and reasonably accurate, but there will be gaps where real world examples may not be accurately covered. Ray ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:55:28 +0800 From: Glenn Butcher Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: A New Idea for Skills Ray Brooks rambled (rabrooks@bg1.uwaterloo.ca): GGlenn Butcher wrote: >>Yes, but the proposed difference is considerable. In the real world, smarter people don't tend to have more skills. What skills they do ahve are considered better tho. Knowledge of astrophysics is considered better than knowledge of manual labour. In *D&D, both would be respresented by a skill slot. >Just one skill slot? Maybe, but think of all the other slots related to it. That is why for very advanced skills, I often use pre-requisite skills. Like, to obtain the astrophysics skill, you would need the skills calculus, physics, classical mechanics, quantum theory, etc., etc. That is where I see a balance being created. The smarter people _do_ have more skills, because more skills are needed to form a foundation of knowledge required for later ones. This, of course assumes that you are looking at skills in the broken down, modular way that they are used in D&D/AD&D. It is efficient for game purposes and reasonably accurate, but there will be gaps where real world examples may not be accurately covered. Yesss.....but how long does the person spend training to gain the astrophysics skill? Many, many years. A person using other skills doesn't train for that long. That is the point I was trying to make. Astrophysics is a quite complex skill, for which one studies long for. Simplier skills don't require as much training. During the time they are training, does the more intelligent person gain more ability at the skill _at which they are suited_? Possibly. A large multiple? Not really. Of course a smarter person will gain ability more quickly at intelligence based skills (like astrophysics). A weak person won't gain ability in, say, the muscle skill as quickly as a strong person tho, assuming they are being trained at the skill. The original idea of not having enough skill slots to represent time is perhaps better represented by a training system. This would allow for the ancient, 2nd level mage to be a real wiz (pardon the pun) at metaphysical knowledge; the person who has performed the same tasks day-in, day-out to have not a great amount of skills; and someone who has applied themselves to learning to know much about many things. Glenn - -- "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - Tolkien "Complex projects are made simple with wizards." - Microsoft (From a sig by Ken Walton) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:05:39 +0100 From: GEIR HELGE RYSTE Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: A New Idea for Skills Yes, but what about the physical skills. Does intelligence count when you are learning skills that rely on strength, dexterity or constitution? Does a 150iq make you a better runner? Myself I use the option(ad&d) of giving the characters as many bonus skills as they have language slots, but then they have to pay skill slots for all languages (excluding common(if there is one) and the racial language.). That way they can have extra skills, but still have to be choosy as you have to learn some languages as well. Ray Brooks wrote: >Just one skill slot? Maybe, but think of all the other slots related to it. That is why for very advanced skills, I often use pre-requisite skills. Like, to obtain the astrophysics skill, you would need the skills calculus, physics, classical mechanics, quantum theory, etc., etc. That is where I see a balance being created. The smarter people _do_ have more skills, because more skills are needed to form a foundation of knowledge required for later ones. This, of course assumes that you are looking at skills in the broken down, modular way that they are used in D&D/AD&D. It is efficient for game purposes and reasonably accurate, but there will be gaps where real world examples may not be accurately covered. >Ray Denne mailen er virus testet ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 1998 13:00:07 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Re: A New Idea for Skills Here's a possibility on skills. Normal D&D says you get skills every four levels. What if we applied your intelligence bonus to that. So, a 13 INT character would get a skill slot every three levels. This will still mean an 18 INT character would get lots of skills (40 total at 36th level), but I d on't have a problem with that. It makes sense to me that a genius is able to pick things up damn quickly. This also spreads skill gains out, so you don't have a lump of four skills all at once. This doesn't necessarily make mages skillmeisters. There isn't as much of a need for 18 INT for mages in D&D compared to AD&D. Also, a fighter with a high intelligence can pick up skills just as quickly. I think there's a problem with the system in that a 3 INT character learns skills just as quickly as an 18 INT character. Combined with a prerequisite system, this system would give more of a feel of player advancement while avoiding a problem with mages having so many skills, since they'll probablyu go for skills which require a number of prereqs. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted One small step for man, one giant stumble for mankind. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:34:51 +1300 From: Liam Jones Subject: Re: [Mystara] REMOVE >>>This is a professional commercial message. If you would like to be rremoved immediately from future mailings please put "REMOVE" in the subject area and send. >>>Dear Friend: >>>Imagine Utility Savings of 10% - 40%! Now imagine being a marketer of those savings and earning a recurring monthly ccommission on the Utility usage of consumers throughout the country... > >STOP THIS!!! It's bad enough that I have to read it once, but I'm tired of seeing it quoted back to me 3 or 4 more times. If you have to send the "remove" message back, send it to the guy who sent the message, not to the MML. Yeah and if you do this they just add you to their list, the remove is just to find which addresses work, not being polite ;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:07:24 +0100 From: Tomas Sanchez Subject: [Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - Stonehenge(s)? Andrew asked : >Any other famous Stonehenge-like formations out there I haven't mentioned? Mentioned by Mystaros in his Haven's Almanac among the most "Notable Sites" are "The Hectoliths", a stand of 100 dark and ominous Standing Stones at the northernmost point of the Silver Crown Mountains, overlooking the Volaga Rift ( I don't know if they were mentioned in the original module or not ). I hope it helps. Anyway, keep me informed if you decide to work about this thread. I'd gladly help you with it. I love celtic matters. Tomás Sánchez Jr deckard@encomix.es ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:10:25 +0800 From: Glenn Butcher Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Re: A New Idea for Skills Alan Shutko rambled (ats@acm.org): >Here's a possibility on skills. >Normal D&D says you get skills every four levels. What if we applied your intelligence bonus to that. So, a 13 INT character would get a skill slot every three levels. >This will still mean an 18 INT character would get lots of skills (40 total at 36th level), but I d on't have a problem with that. It makes sense to me that a genius is able to pick things up damn quickly. This also spreads skill gains out, so you don't have a lump of four skills all at once. This would be better (but I still disagree, for reasons given before). >This doesn't necessarily make mages skillmeisters. There isn't as much of a need for 18 INT for mages in D&D compared to AD&D. Also, a fighter with a high intelligence can pick up skills just as quickly. The problem is that magic users are going to have high int, the fighters high strength. It is that way due to the nature of the class. Basically it's handing extra skill slots to magic users, and quite a few of them too! >I think there's a problem with the system in that a 3 INT character learns skills just as quickly as an 18 INT character. Yes, true. Can be simulated by the effects of intelligence on ability in the skill (ie: int based skills for the 3 int character are so low as to be a joke). I can imagine a low int character who is good at the muscle skill. >Combined with a prerequisite system, this system would give more of a feel of player advancement while avoiding a problem with mages having so many skills, since they'll probablyu go for skills which require a number of prereqs. I decided to go for a training system, so that characters who spend the time get the skills. This means even a warrior can get lots of skills if they so desire. Leads to interesting adventures too. - -- Glenn Butcher mailto:knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | "I take off all my magic, and finger -l for PGP public key | never, ever use any artifact http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | again." ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jan 1998 22:42:03 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: A New Idea for Skills >>>>>"G" == Geoff Gander writes: G> This is a pretty good idea, too! II think, though, that penalizing G> a PC for a really low intelligence might be little cruel (again, G> how likely is it that DMs will make a person play a character with G> a 3 in anything, unless it really gives the PC some depth?) Why is it ok to reward people for high stats but not penalize them for low ones? I still remember the wars on Usenet about spell limitations for non-18-INT mages. Granting that a PC probably won't play a low INT character unless for RPG purposes, a slower learning process is pretty appropriate. It gives another facet to their abilities (or, lack thereof in this area). I'm still trying to wrack my brains to somehow take into account prime req _and_ intelligence, though... - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Whenever I feel like exercise, I lie down until the feeling passes. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:17:55 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Re: A New Idea for Skills Hi! >I decided to go for a training system, so that characters who spend the time get the skills. This means even a warrior can get lots of skills if they so desire. Leads to interesting adventures too. I use such a system. IMC every character can try to learn skills through practice. With 30 days of 8-hour practice, he will get one third of a slot point. For high weapon mastery (like greta master and so on from AD&D: Combat & Tactics), they need one slot and a period of learning. ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jan 1998 21:00:55 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Immortals vs Gods >>>>>"P" == Peter Balazs writes: P> What about the "Time of Trouble" in the Forgotten Realms? What about most things in the FR books? Completely unrelated to the game! 8^) The difference is that in Mystara, the characters know that many Immortals rose from normal people. For example, Halav, Petra, and Zirchev. In normal AD&D pantheons, the Gods have always been there, and won't be replaced or added to. The "Time of Trouble" is a much larger (and rarer) shakeup of FR than an average Immortal quest. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted If you would keep a secret from an enemy, tell it not to a friend. ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jan 1998 21:02:31 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Do I want to do Mystara? >>>>>"B" == bjm10 writes: B> But do I want to use Mystara or go my own route? Good question. Let us know when you decide. B> The reason is that Mystara has some neat ideas, but it also doesn't B> do things the way I'd like. Maybe I'll just rip Mystara off when B> it suits me. Well, what don't you like about it? That would tend to change one's decision. Personally, I like it. I'm goiong to run it next time I have players. Me, I'm going to do it before WotI and I'm going to scrap most of what's on the mailing list, but that's just me. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Operator, please trace this call and tell me where I am. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:50:21 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Immortals vs Gods At 09:00 PM 1/25/98 -0600, you wrote: >The difference is that in Mystara, the characters know that many Immortals rose from normal people. For example, Halav, Petra, and Zirchev. Erm, I'm not so sure about this one... Remember that according to WotI, PCs aren't supposed to learn about the possibility of immortality until they reach 30th level or so. This limits the number of people who are aware quite drastically (unless you're running one hell of a power game!). Most people DON'T know that the immortals were once mortal. This raises an interesting question, then; the Immortals are worshipped as gods, but some of them (the Traladaran trio, for example) use the same names they used as mortals. Would this mean that they are prayed to as saints are prayed to by Christians? If so, who do the people consider to be 'God'? >In normal AD&D pantheons, the Gods have always been there, and won't be replaced or added to. The "Time of Trouble" is a much larger (and rarer) shakeup of FR than an average Immortal quest. Yes, but AD&D pantheons aren't as cool as the Immortals, so we can ignore them altogether, right? :-) The Time of Troubles was Ao's marketing plan to sell 2nd Edition AD&D anyway; the dead gods and their replacements were unfortunate casualties. Glen Sprigg ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #240 ***************************** Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 06:06:41 -0600 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #241 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 80c8e2f3e3e9be59f32b6afcc084eba4 mystara-digest Friday, January 30 1998 Volume 02 : Number 241 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 04:57:55 -0700 From: "Joe Gerber" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Immortals vs Gods Glen Sprigg wrote: >At 09:00 PM 1/25/98 -0600, you wrote: >>The difference is that in Mystara, the characters know that many Immortals rose from normal people. For example, Halav, Petra, and Zirchev. >Erm, I'm not so sure about this one... >Remember that according to WotI, PCs aren't supposed to learn about the possibility of immortality until they reach 30th level or so. This limits the number of people who are aware quite drastically (unless you're running one hell of a power game!). Most people DON'T know that the immortals were once mortal. Well, learning about the paths to immortality and learning about previous heroes who became immortal are, IMHO, different things. For example, most Traladarans know that Halav, Petra, and Zirchev were all once mortal heroes of ancient Traladara. (The legends surronding their mortal lives are not even close to what really happened, of course.) Ditto Al-Kalim, Vanya, and a whole host of others. Joseph M. Gerber jgerber@theriver.com No home page (yet) ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jan 1998 11:37:14 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Re: Immortals vs Gods >>>>>"G" == Glen Sprigg writes: G> At 09:00 PM 1/25/98 -0600, you wrote: TTThe difference is that in Mystara, the characters know that many Immortals rose from normal people. For example, Halav, Petra, and Zirchev. G> Erm, I'm not so sure about this one... G> Remember that according to WotI, PCs aren't supposed to learn about G> the possibility of immortality until they reach 30th level or so. G> This limits the number of people who are aware quite drastically G> (unless you're running one hell of a power game!). Most people G> DON'T know that the immortals were once mortal. Well, GAZ 1 said pretty explicitly that the Church of Traladara believes that said trio were once real mortals and were swept up into immortality. (I'd quote, but it's at home.) I'm also pretty sure the Alfheim elves remember that Ilsundel (sp) was once mortal. Remember, knowing that the Immortals came from mortals is not the same thing as reasonably believing that Joe the Baker could do such a thing. There are enough Immortals throughout the known world where the populace does know that they were mortals that I think it's part of their belief system. But it's not until 30th level that they find out they could actually become immortal through doing something, rather than simply immense luck or something. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted I'm not tense, just terribly, terribly alert! ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jan 1998 11:42:01 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Do I want to do Mystara? >>>>>"B" == bjm10 writes: B> And what if what I don't like includes several "vital" elements? Sounds like you have your mind made up. Why did you bother asking us in the first place? - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Sign outside brothel: "On Vacation. Beat it." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:58:56 -0500 From: Jeremy Morris Subject: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V2 #240 Hi everyone. I've just started lurking around on this list, saw the discussion on Immortals and thought I'd contribute my $0.02. >At 09:00 PM 1/25/98 -0600, you wrote: >Remember that according to WotI, PCs aren't supposed to learn about the possibility of immortality until they reach 30th level or so. This limits the number of people who are aware quite drastically (unless you're running one hell of a power game!). Most people DON'T know that the immortals were once mortal. This bothered me back when GAZ1 first came out. According to the original Immortals set, Immortals assumed new names when they left their mortality behind. Suddenly, however, all of the Immortals seemed to have been "ancestral heroes (or villans)." Halav, Petra & Zirchev, Al-Kalim, Alphaks, Illsundal, all of them use their "real names" as their Immortal names. Then there are others who select a new name for use when they become Immortals. The way I see it, these Immortals saw a benefit from keeping their old identities and keeping their people as followers. In the case of the Traladaran trio, this would be because there was already a following of people who became followers during their quests for Immortality. Once they became Immortals, they simply legitimized these beliefs. (Al-Kalim has a similar history, and most of the others who have kept their names as well). >This raises an interesting question, then; the Immortals are worshipped as gods, but some of them (the Traladaran trio, for example) use the same names they used as mortals. Would this mean that they are prayed to as saints are prayed to by Christians? If so, who do the people consider to be 'God'? I don't really think so. Again, the way I see it, Mystaran's don't necessarily follow Immortals the way that we on contemporary Earth follow our religions. It's more like the way the Greeks followed their gods. Their gods had flaws and human tendencies, but that didn't stop them from following them. I kind of see the Mystaran Immortals in the same way. Also, I don't necessarily think that the people of Mystara don't know that some Immortals were human. People know that they were heroes a long time ago who have somehow managed to become Immortals, but not necessarily how, or that it is even currently still possible. Anyway, that's the way I've played my campaign since way back when. Where its appropriate, the Immortals are ancient heroes/villans/philosophers/whatever, but people don't necessarily know how they "transcended" from being mortal to being Immortals, and they certainly can't use their legendary exploits to discover how to become Immortals (although that might be a good place for a high-level mage to begin an Immortality quest...) - -- Jeremy Morris (jjmorris@iwaynet.net) "The little boat gently drifted across the pond exactly the way a bowling ball wouldn't." - "Worst Analogy" Winner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:37:01 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gothic Horror and Karameikos >I've also stage a revised "Evil Dead" in Darokin and i'm currently thinking about an "Island of Doctor Moreau" in the Tanegioth Archipelago (much like "Neither Man Nor Beast")... Hey Marco, This is an old email, but did you ever come up with any further thoughts on this? My PCs are charting the easternmost Island of the archipelago working up to playing X1 (they're in 977 AC) ... they just made landfall and nearly got ambushed by troglodyte warriors working with tasloi scouts ... they are thinking about a punitive expedition (they may find a ruined Serpentine Ziggurat, with a Spirit Naga leading a cult of Troglodytes who worship a Megalosaurus as an avatar of some Carnifex deity). Dr. Moreau might be a really cool addition to the other things I have planned out ... Geoff Gander sent me some stuff about the Carnifex plantations in the islands back during the Lhomarrian era. Thanks in advance for whatever you got, Matt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:13:24 -0800 From: kamandi@pacbell.net Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V2 #240 Jeremy Morris wrote: >Hi everyone. I've just started lurking around on this list, saw the discussion on Immortals and thought I'd contribute my $0.02. >>At 09:00 PM 1/25/98 -0600, you wrote: > >>Remember that according to WotI, PCs aren't supposed to learn about the possibility of immortality until they reach 30th level or so. This limits the number of people who are aware quite drastically (unless you're running one hell of a power game!). Most people DON'T know that the immortals were once mortal. >This bothered me back when GAZ1 first came out. According to the original Immortals set, Immortals assumed new names when they left their mortality behind. Suddenly, however, all of the Immortals seemed to have been "ancestral heroes (or villans)." Halav, Petra & Zirchev, Al-Kalim, Alphaks, Illsundal, all of them use their "real names" as their Immortal names. Then there are others who select a new name for use when they become Immortals. >The way I see it, these Immortals saw a benefit from keeping their old identities and keeping their people as followers. In the case of the Traladaran trio, this would be because there was already a following of people who became followers during their quests for Immortality. Once they became Immortals, they simply legitimized these beliefs. (Al-Kalim has a similar history, and most of the others who have kept their names as well). >>This raises an interesting question, then; the Immortals are worshipped as gods, but some of them (the Traladaran trio, for example) use the same names they used as mortals. Would this mean that they are prayed to as saints are prayed to by Christians? If so, who do the people consider to be 'God'? >I don't really think so. Again, the way I see it, Mystaran's don't necessarily follow Immortals the way that we on contemporary Earth follow our religions. It's more like the way the Greeks followed their gods. Their gods had flaws and human tendencies, but that didn't stop them from following them. I kind of see the Mystaran Immortals in the same way. >Also, I don't necessarily think that the people of Mystara don't know that some Immortals were human. People know that they were heroes a long time ago who have somehow managed to become Immortals, but not necessarily how, or that it is even currently still possible. >Anyway, that's the way I've played my campaign since way back when. Where its appropriate, the Immortals are ancient heroes/villans/philosophers/whatever, but people don't necessarily know how they "transcended" from being mortal to being Immortals, and they certainly can't use their legendary exploits to discover how to become Immortals (although that might be a good place for a high-level mage to begin an Immortality quest...) >-- >Jeremy Morris (jjmorris@iwaynet.net) >"The little boat gently drifted across the pond exactly the way a bowling ball wouldn't." - "Worst Analogy" Winner This might seem flakey, but no one in my group has caught on yet. The immortals sort of didn't work for me taking the place of a pantheon of gods simply because I couldn't find a flavor, or set of tenets or values to ascribe to someone playing a priest of an immortal order, and yet I agreed that in a campaign where even PCs could aspire to immortality that it was necessary to have them. So I cheated. Get ready to groan, but if you dish it out with a light hand ... I used Golden Age (1940s) super-heroes and sort of converted their names and attributes, and placed their cities of worship. Some have Avatars, some have high priests or Paladins who follow them, but you can have a vaguely Dark Knight-like character as the patron immortal of the 'rebels' at Luln & Fort Doom, or the Golden Age Atom (who was just short) is the champion of the Hin, Green Arrow and Speedy fit in well, and so on. It's not for everyone, but it gives me a personality to build around, and is a sort of trump card I can play if characters somehow disrupt the balance of things. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:30:25 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V2 #240 On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Jeremy Morris wrote: >This bothered me back when GAZ1 first came out. According to the original Immortals set, Immortals assumed new names when they left their mortality behind. Suddenly, however, all of the Immortals seemed to have been "ancestral heroes (or villans)." Halav, Petra & Zirchev, Al-Kalim, Alphaks, Illsundal, all of them use their "real names" as their Immortal names. Then there are others who select a new name for use when they become Immortals. >The way I see it, these Immortals saw a benefit from keeping their old identities and keeping their people as followers. In the case of the Traladaran trio, this would be because there was already a following of people who became followers during their quests for Immortality. Once they became Immortals, they simply legitimized these beliefs. (Al-Kalim has a similar history, and most of the others who have kept their names as well). Well, why would Alphaks keep his own name? I mean, now everyone knows that he's the bastard who destroyed the first Alphatian empire. Wouldn't it be better for him to take a different name and gain unwitting followers in Alphatia? Not that he has too much brains, of course... ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:40:00 +0100 (MEZ) From: Celebgil Subject: Re: [Mystara] REMOVE Remove ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:18:39 +1100 From: Karl Uebergang Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V2 #240 Jeremy Morris wrote: >Hi everyone. I've just started lurking around on this list, saw the discussion on Immortals and thought I'd contribute my $0.02. >>At 09:00 PM 1/25/98 -0600, you wrote: > >>Remember that according to WotI, PCs aren't supposed to learn about the possibility of immortality until they reach 30th level or so. This limits the number of people who are aware quite drastically (unless you're running one hell of a power game!). Most people DON'T know that the immortals were once mortal. >This bothered me back when GAZ1 first came out. According to the original Immortals set, Immortals assumed new names when they left their mortality behind. Suddenly, however, all of the Immortals seemed to have been "ancestral heroes (or villans)." Halav, Petra & Zirchev, Al-Kalim, Alphaks, Illsundal, all of them use their "real names" as their Immortal names. Then there are others who select a new name for use when they become Immortals. >The way I see it, these Immortals saw a benefit from keeping their old identities and keeping their people as followers. In the case of the Traladaran trio, this would be because there was already a following of people who became followers during their quests for Immortality. Once they became Immortals, they simply legitimized these beliefs. (Al-Kalim has a similar history, and most of the others who have kept their names as well). >>This raises an interesting question, then; the Immortals are worshipped as gods, but some of them (the Traladaran trio, for example) use the same names they used as mortals. Would this mean that they are prayed to as saints are prayed to by Christians? If so, who do the people consider to be 'God'? >I don't really think so. Again, the way I see it, Mystaran's don't necessarily follow Immortals the way that we on contemporary Earth follow our religions. It's more like the way the Greeks followed their gods. Their gods had flaws and human tendencies, but that didn't stop them from following them. I kind of see the Mystaran Immortals in the same way. >Also, I don't necessarily think that the people of Mystara don't know that some Immortals were human. People know that they were heroes a long time ago who have somehow managed to become Immortals, but not necessarily how, or that it is even currently still possible. >Anyway, that's the way I've played my campaign since way back when. Where its appropriate, the Immortals are ancient heroes/villans/philosophers/whatever, but people don't necessarily know how they "transcended" from being mortal to being Immortals, and they certainly can't use their legendary exploits to discover how to become Immortals (although that might be a good place for a high-level mage to begin an Immortality quest...) >-- >Jeremy Morris (jjmorris@iwaynet.net) >"The little boat gently drifted across the pond exactly the way a bowling ball wouldn't." - "Worst Analogy" Winner I dont thing that Im getting Mystara Digest if any one can send along please do ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:20:15 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V2 #240 In a message dated 98-01-27 03:39:35 EST, you write: << Well, why would Alphaks keep his own name? I mean, now everyone knows that he's the bastard who destroyed the first Alphatian empire. Wouldn't it be better for him to take a different name and gain unwitting followers in Alphatia? Not that he has too much brains, of course... >> Well, IMO Alphaks would keep his name as it is to remind the Alphatians that he is still about engineering his revenge. He has no need of concealing his identity as the former Emperor of Alphatia. What are the Alphatians going to do to him? As for followers, they are set to acheive Alphatia's demise. It helps with recruitment. Subtle methods to wreak havoc do not apply to Alphaks as he is too slow witted, tempermental, and lack of subtety to plot schemes simular to Thanatos. Call it honor. Call it a tantrum. Call it a plot device. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:13:58 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V2 #240 On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >Well, why would Alphaks keep his own name? I mean, now everyone knows that he's the bastard who destroyed the first Alphatian empire. Wouldn't it be better for him to take a different name and gain unwitting followers in Alphatia? Not that he has too much brains, of course... Well. He was an evil emperor is Alphatians history. And while most of Alphatias society despise him for this he could have become a symbol of a different Alphatian society. Which would inspire most critics of the Empire. He represents everything that Alphatia is not.... just some ramblings... Haavard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:58:08 -0500 From: "Philippe Lazzaroni" Subject: [Mystara] REMOVE Remove ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:43:50 EST From: Wassellj Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Immortals and Al-Kalim I think that Al-Kalim is an interesting immortal to consider. He is probably the most recent mortal to achieve immortality, and yet what do the common people think of him. Is he considered an immortal or a great prophet/saint that led the tribes, now dead but revered in Ylari ? If he is an Immortal how do the people think he became an immortal. BTW - I note that the Sultan, who is a decendent of Al-Kalim is a cleric of Protius, not Al-Kalim as one might think. What is the dominant religion in Ylari ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:42:26 +1300 From: Liam Jones Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Immortals and Al-Kalim >I think that Al-Kalim is an interesting immortal to consider. He is probably Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 06:06:41 -0600 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #241 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 80c8e2f3e3e9be59f32b6afcc084eba4 >the most recent mortal to achieve immortality, and yet what do the common people think of him. Is he considered an immortal or a great prophet/saint that led the tribes, now dead but revered in Ylari ? If he is an Immortal how >do the people think he became an immortal. Perhaps a consideration of real life might be of some use. The Christian faith has no difficulty accepting Christ, who died as a martyr and rose to live again, immortally, as well as Buddha, who was once a mortal man who achieved enlightenment and immortality as I understand it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:33:11 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V2 #240 In a message dated 98-01-27 03:39:35 EST, k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi writes: >Well, why would Alphaks keep his own name? I mean, now everyone knows that hhe's the bastard who destroyed the first Alphatian empire. Wouldn't it be better for him to take a different name and gain unwitting followers in Alphatia? Not that he has too much brains, of course... Remember that Alphatia has a lot of enemies -- on Mystara, Alphaks attracts many followers precisely because he is the "bastard who destroyed the first Alphatian empire." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:09:44 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Immortals and Al-Kalim On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Liam Jones wrote: >>I think that Al-Kalim is an interesting immortal to consider. He is probably the most recent mortal to achieve immortality, and yet what do the common people think of him. Is he considered an immortal or a great prophet/saint that led the tribes, now dead but revered in Ylari ? If he is an Immortal hhow do the people think he became an immortal. >Perhaps a consideration of real life might be of some use. The Christian faith has no difficulty accepting Christ, who died as a martyr and rose to live again, immortally, as well as Buddha, who was once a mortal man who achieved enlightenment and immortality as I understand it. The Al-Kalim situation is somewhat different, as presented in Gaz2 and elsewhere. Al-Kalim is regarded as a great hero and prophet- one who led the Ylari to their current freedom and who presented them with both a goal to strive for (the Dream of the Desert Garden) and a book of sayings/maxims/edicts by which to live the perfect life (can't think of the name offhand). No one knows that he is now an Immortal save for the Immortals themselves. The only one who knows that he was attempting to become Immortal was his mortal companion (who may or may not be dead himself by now, I forget). Al-Kalim is revered as a folk hero, but not as an Immortal. At least this is the original interpretation of things, which seems to have been taken to extremes by later writers (post Gaz2), who have made him into a Christ type of figure. What seems to be constantly forgotten is that there are Immortals that the Ylari pay homage to. The attention they give to Al-Kalim is tantamount to worship (it would be if they knew he was an Immortal, as it stands, it still amounts to as much to him), but there is definitely a whole slew of Immortals that receive quite a bit of attention from the Ylari (among the Protius, the Old Man of the Sea). - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:02:41 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Immortals and Al-Kalim In a message dated 98-01-27 18:03:54 EST, Wassellj@aol.com writes: >BTW - I note that the Sultan, who is a decendent of Al-Kalim is a cleric of PProtius, not Al-Kalim as one might think. What is the dominant religion in Ylari ? According to Gaz 2, the official religion of Ylaruam is "Eternal Truth". It is divided into two factions, the Kin and the Preceptors. Since Al-Kalim was a Cleric of Protius, perhaps the distinction between the two is the Immortal that they actually follow, with the Preceptors serving Protius as Al-Kalim did and the Kin serving Al-Kalim directly. Al-Kalim would have mixed feelings about these two sects, as the Preceptors are closer to his personal philosophy but effectively divide their support between him and Protius. ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 1998 08:05:29 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Dragon nations >>>>>"W" == wizzard writes: W> *flame on* BUT if you think of OD&D there is nothing of thing W> "lawful-shit" *flame off* W> In OD&D there is only good, neutral and evil!! This is a far better W> method of letting the PCs to develop their very own personality. If you mean Original D&D, I can't say. Never seen the white boxed set. But Basic D&D (or Cyclopedia D&D) have only Lawful, Chaotic, and Neutral. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted If God had meant for us to be naked, we would have been born that way. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:07:07 -0500 From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Re: Immortals vs Gods Alan Shutko wrote: >Remember, knowing that the Immortals came from mortals is not the same thing as reasonably believing that Joe the Baker could do such a thing. There are enough Immortals throughout the known world where the populace does know that they were mortals that I think it's part of their belief system. >But it's not until 30th level that they find out they could actually become immortal through doing something, rather than simply immense luck or something. I agree completely. The formal Paths to immortality should be very well hidden. I would guess that even when an individual is aware of a Path and maybe even pursuing it, there is no reason he should know anything at all about the other Paths, or even that they exist. If the DM is clever, it may even appear that it isn't just a formula set of requirements that the character is fulfilling. It can be very specific directions from the character's immortal patron, which maintains the appearance that this character is a special and unique case (which any immortal candidate really should be when you get down to it). As for mortals being aware of the origins of some immortals? I look at it in a similar way to the idea of sainthood, though not nearly as structured. How many people actually "set out" to be sainted? No one. Granted, immortality is not determined by a mortal individual (the pope) conferring with advisors, researching, and then deciding someone deserves it (of course I over simplify). It is still possible to make use of this model though. Approaching it with an attitude like this ensures that the general populace is reverent and recognizes how important these great individuals were (and are!). Ray ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:19:41 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Re: Immortals vs Gods In a message dated 98-01-28 11:15:11 EST, you write: << I agree completely. The formal Paths to immortality should be very well hidden. I would guess that even when an individual is aware of a Path and maybe even pursuing it, there is no reason he should know anything at all about the other Paths, or even that they exist. If the DM is clever, it may even appear that it isn't just a formula set of requirements that the character is fulfilling. It can be very specific directions from the character's immortal patron, which maintains the appearance that this character is a special and unique case (which any immortal candidate really should be when you get down to it). As for mortals being aware of the origins of some immortals? I look at it in a similar way to the idea of sainthood, though not nearly as structured. How many people actually "set out" to be sainted? No one. Granted, immortality is not determined by a mortal individual (the pope) conferring with advisors, researching, and then deciding someone deserves it (of course I over simplify). It is still possible to make use of this model though. Approaching it with an attitude like this ensures that the general populace is reverent and recognizes how important these great individuals were (and are!). Not only hidden in reality. But also the concept of a Path to gain Immortality should be beyond the mental grasp of mortals. Only after seeing alot of various things (XP level advancement) could such aspects of a Path be understood and accepted. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:31:13 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: mystara-digest V2 #240 << Al-Kalim has a similar history, and most of the others who have kept their names as well >> Hm, is he not known as the "prophet"? By the beard of the prophet! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:08:06 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Immortals and Al-Kalim On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >According to Gaz 2, the official religion of Ylaruam is "Eternal Truth". It is divided into two factions, the Kin and the Preceptors. Since Al-Kalim was a Cleric of Protius, perhaps the distinction between the two is the Immortal that they actually follow, with the Preceptors serving Protius as Al-Kalim did and the Kin serving Al-Kalim directly. Al-Kalim would have mixed feelings about these two sects, as the Preceptors are closer to his personal philosophy but effectively divide their support between him and Protius. In the vein of a previous post of mine, I would have to contend that Al-Kalim is not worshipped as an Immortal as such, but rather as a philosophy. He is not known to be an Immortal, nor to be anything other than a famous war leader and prophet, now deceased. To that end, I would say that clerics in Ylaruam are either specialty priests of Immortals known to the Ylari (Protius, Corona- aka, IMO, Ixion, Zephyr- possibly a Ylari name for Odin, and a few others- Rathanos among the Magian Fire Worshippers, Thanatos, Ranivorus), or else generic clerics of the philosophy of the Desert Garden, who unknowingly recieve their powers from Al-Kalim. Perhaps these 'generic' clerics, not receiving their powers from an Immortal as such (as far as they know) look down upon the clerics of other Immortals, and this may be the basis for the seeming religious intolerance the Ylari are known for? - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:58:30 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Re: Immortals vs Gods In a message dated 98-01-28 11:15:11 EST, rabrooks@bg1.uwaterloo.ca writes: >How many people actually "set out" to be sainted? No one. Well -- that depends on what you mean by "sainted". Certainly most devout Catholics would strive to remove all obstacles to immediate acceptance into Heaven upon death -- but there is nothing that one can or should do to ensure immediate recognition of one's status as a saint in Heaven. In the highly unlikely event that I am canonized after death -- let it be known now that it would mean that the "Devil's Advocate" really didn't do his job.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:10:26 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Immortals and Al-Kalim On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >To that end, I would say that clerics in Ylaruam are either specialty priests of Immortals known to the Ylari (Protius, Corona- aka, IMO, Ixion, Zephyr- possibly a Ylari name for Odin, and a few others- Rathanos among the Magian Fire Worshippers, Thanatos, Ranivorus), or else generic clerics of the philosophy of the Desert Garden, who unknowingly recieve their powers from Al-Kalim. I think GAZ2 said that Corona was an ally of Thanatos. That would probably make him Ranivorus. It also mentioned the Gnoll (as a good guy) - that would be Pflarr probably, but why would they call him "the Gnoll"? I agree that Zephyr is probably Odin. I'd think he has a major following among the djinn. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:15:26 EST From: Galeifel Subject: [Mystara] REMOVE REMOVE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:15:41 EST From: Galeifel Subject: [Mystara] REMOVE REMOVE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:00:38 -0600 From: "George E. Hrabovsky" Subject: [Mystara] Remove REMOVE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:09:57 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Immortals and Al-Kalim On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >>To that end, I would say that clerics in Ylaruam are either specialty priests of Immortals known to the Ylari (Protius, Corona- aka, IMO, Ixion, Zephyr- possibly a Ylari name for Odin, and a few others- Rathanos among the Magian Fire Worshippers, Thanatos, Ranivorus), or else generic clerics of the philosophy of the Desert Garden, who unknowingly recieve their powers from Al-Kalim. >I think GAZ2 said that Corona was an ally of Thanatos. That would probably make him Ranivorus. It also mentioned the Gnoll (as a good guy) - that would be Pflarr probably, but why would they call him "the Gnoll"? I agree that Zephyr is probably Odin. I'd think he has a major following among the djinn. In that case wouldnt be natural to have Zeohyr be Ixion? I havent read much about Zephyr but the fire aspect seems to fit with Ixion. Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:44:25 -0500 From: Ken Reaverson Subject: [Mystara] digest Could someone please tell me how to put this mailing list in digest mode? The help files aren't being very helpful. :) | Rev. Ken Reaverson, ULC / | S: Shadowdale (1:133/1004) / Telegard Beta Site | Team OS/2 / Public Key ID: 39A2DEAD | 'Perhaps through death, my life won't be so bad...' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:09:42 -0700 (MST) From: ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Immortals and Al-Kalim On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >In that case wouldnt be natural to have Zeohyr be Ixion? I havent read much about Zephyr but the fire aspect seems to fit with Ixion. Zephyr means "wind" or something similar, so I assume that Zephyr has ties to the sky. Which is why I assumed that it was Odin (with his ties to air and sky), rather than Ixion. I'm pretty sure there was one other mentioned who seemed like he was probably Ixion, though I can't recall offhand... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:11:42 -0700 (MST) From: ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Immortals and Al-Kalim On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >I think GAZ2 said that Corona was an ally of Thanatos. That would probably make him Ranivorus. It also mentioned the Gnoll (as a good guy) - that would be Pflarr probably, but why would they call him "the Gnoll"? I agree that Zephyr is probably Odin. I'd think he has a major following among the djinn. That's right. I was mixing my Immortals. Corona and Thanatos; Protius, Zephyr, and the Gnoll. Wasn't there another one listed with those three? I thought there was... Anyway, I'd imagine that the modern day Ylari know Pflarr as the gnoll based on his similar appearance. Perhaps Ranivorus (as Corona) has another form that he is better known for among the Ylari as a result? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:27:13 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Immortals and Al-Kalim ANDREW.THEISEN@asu.edu pontificated: >Zephyr means "wind" or something similar, so I assume that Zephyr has ties to the sky. Which is why I assumed that it was Odin (with his ties to air and sky), rather than Ixion. I missed the first part of this discussion, but Zephyr is the god of west wind in Greek myth. It can also be used to mean just the west wind. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:43:44 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Immortals and Al-Kalim >>I think GAZ2 said that Corona was an ally of Thanatos. That would probably make him Ranivorus. It also mentioned the Gnoll (as a good guy) - that would be Pflarr probably, but why would they call him "the Gnoll"? I agree that Zephyr is probably Odin. I'd think he has a major following among the djinn. >In that case wouldnt be natural to have Zeohyr be Ixion? I havent read much about Zephyr but the fire aspect seems to fit with Ixion. Where did you read about his fire aspect? I always thought the name Zephyr indicated an air/wind Immortal. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:59:42 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Immortals and Al-Kalim On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >>>I think GAZ2 said that Corona was an ally of Thanatos. That would probably make him Ranivorus. It also mentioned the Gnoll (as a good guy) - that would be Pflarr probably, but why would they call him "the Gnoll"? I agree that Zephyr is probably Odin. I'd think he has a major following among the djinn. >>In that case wouldnt be natural to have Zeohyr be Ixion? I havent read much about Zephyr but the fire aspect seems to fit with Ixion. >Where did you read about his fire aspect? I always thought the name Zephyr indicated an air/wind Immortal. Merely the reference that he is poular among the efreeti as Andrew mentioned. As for Odin, I dont really see why he should be associated with wind. If any norse immortal should it would have to be Thor. Odin, at least in Real World myth is more commonly associated with Death actually.. (and wisdom and the spear, and berserkers, and kings etc etc) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #241 ***************************** Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:47:35 -0600 From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com Subject: mystara-digest V2 #242 Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Saturday, February 21 1998 Volume 02 : Number 242 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Jan 1998 10:07:26 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Creature Crucibles? >>>>>"H" == Håvard Rønne Faanes writes: H> Am I the only one slightly bothered by Top Balista? Any ideas how H> one can handle Serraine in a serious Campaign? How can you have Ierendi in a serious campaign? How can you have Alphatia in a serious campaign? You could just toss them all, you could rework them to be more serious, or you could play them comedic. I personally like the last option, since even in a serious campaign, not everything has to be serious. There are lots of places in the real world which are pretty laughable. And then, if I want, the place could only _look_ laughable.... I don't know. Maybe I just like comedy. I liek the idea of playing children Glantrian spellcasters too. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted America: born free and taxed to death. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:38:49 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals and Al-Kalim Haavard wrote: On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >I think GAZ2 said that Corona was an ally of Thanatos. That would probably make him Ranivorus. It also mentioned the Gnoll (as a good guy) - that would be Pflarr probably, but why would they call him "the Gnoll"? I agree that Zephyr is probably Odin. I'd think he has a major following among the djinn. <> Regarding Corona, I beg to differ. It is clearly stated that Corona is a secret ally of Thanatos, while everyone (Immortals & Nithians) know that Ranivorus took an active part in Nithia's corruption & downfall. This makes him and Corona two distinct entities. And to these days, nobody has explained me yet who the heck was Corona (besides Drew: i think it was u that said he was the god of drunkenness.. ;)). Could he/she be Hel? As for the Gnoll, he's clearly Pflarr, and he's called Gnoll because, well, he's a gnoll face! But he's a good gnoll.. ;) Zephyr was in ancient mythology one of the Winds, so he should be associated with Air (Thought). Odin is not that unlikely as a proposal. Ixion doesn't fit the role IMHO, and besides, he had not many followers in Nithia IMO, mainly because the Nithians were more obsessed with the raw power & destructive/plasmating aspect of the sun, embodied by Rathanos. DM Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring! Plug in at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:29:36 EST From: DUFFISGOD@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Immortals vs Gods The difference is that in Mystara, the characters know that many >Immortals rose from normal people. For example, Halav, Petra, and Zirchev. The immolrtals who unlike the gods in other ad&d worlds (and i play mystara the AD&D setting) were once mortal. So were many of the sorceror kings of Athas in the Darksun campaign. in the forgotten realms Elminster (sorry Mr Greenwood) blatantly ripped off the path to the polymath to gain status as one of the Chosen. Thus gaining Immortal status. I believe the Mystaran Immortals are just a combination of the two making them Gods in thier own right. ....... explained in furthere detail later Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats. Howard Aiken duff ------------------------------ Date: 04 Feb 1998 08:21:56 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) >>>>>"H" == Håvard Rønne Faanes writes: H> On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >>As for what they are like -- basically, they are psychotic, in the clinical sense. H> If they weren't I'd suggest we'd have them transported into HW. But H> they aren't really worth it, are they? Perhaps the bulk of their race had been transported into the HW, and they were missed? - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Sometimes you get an almost irresistible urge to go on living. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:10:15 -0600 From: ccosman@huntingdon.edu (Cecil Cosman) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstormin >Perhaps the bulk of their race had been transported into the HW, and they were missed? And then there were two gentle folks ;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:13:39 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) >Perhaps the bulk of their race had been transported into the HW, and they were missed? Hmmm! I'd not like to see another people go to the Hollow World. How about a resurgence of these people? I've got some ideas on this, if anyone's interested. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ Date: 06 Feb 1998 10:52:25 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: Re: [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for >>>>>"G" == Galwylin writes: G> It will only lead back to the G> Alphatia vs Glantri conflict. Glantri just could not allow G> Alphatia to pay for all the damage and deaths it believes Alphatia G> was responsible for. So what? Sans Nucleus of the Spheres, Alphatia wins. Iirc, WotI basically said so. That's not world war, that's just a massacre. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Dull women have immaculate homes. ------------------------------ Date: 06 Feb 1998 10:56:13 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) >>>>>"J" == JamugaKhan writes: J> The original point was, that you cannot change the written rules J> for your own and then use this rules in discussions on the MML as J> they were the Ten Commandments from the Bible. No, but you can mention them and discuss them. I don't remember anyone calling their rules "The One and Only Way." If we were to restrict this list to printed TSR products, suddenly most of the purpose behind this list is gone (Almanac, various nation/state gaz's, etc.) - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Verba volant, scripta manent! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:31:28 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << No, but you can mention them and discuss them. I don't remember anyone calling their rules "The One and Only Way." If we were to restrict this list to printed TSR products, suddenly most of the purpose behind this list is gone (Almanac, various nation/state gaz's, etc.) Exactly, but they didn't. Instead they told me nonsense about the written rules. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 16:23:02 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [Mystara] Tortles In the vein of the mysteries of the Tortle race and their spirituality, I recall an article on Mystaran Martial Arts that I wrote up a long time ago (inspired partially by the Mystic Tortles in the Princess Ark series). In it, I had the Tortles develop a form of martial art akin to Aikido- a fighting style they developed to defend against human incursions into their lands, and one they based on their notion of the ocean- ever present, giving way before force, but eventually overwhelming their opposition; a theme of sorts with many Oriental cultures and styles of martial arts. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:25:54 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Tortles << In it, I had the Tortles develop a form of martial art akin to Aikido- a fighting style they developed to defend against human incursions into their lands, and one they based on their notion of the ocean- ever present, giving way before force, but eventually overwhelming their opposition; a theme of sorts with many Oriental cultures and styles of martial arts. >> Oh no, the Teenage Mutant Turtle Heroes attack... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:21:25 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >>Perhaps the bulk of their race had been transported into the HW, and they were missed? >Hmmm! I'd not like to see another people go to the Hollow World. How about a resurgence of these people? I've got some ideas on this, if anyone's interested. I have seen some theories on this before. However I'd like to see more. But I'd like this to be easily incorporated into the Almanac timeline. One problem is that we've already seen one people rise to the surface. If they all do it could look like we have nothing better to do, right? I'm also interested in seeing if your theories can ba incorporated in a timeline with the Eternal Desert Garden gradually being realized. So, dont be shy, post what you've got :) Haavard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:16:10 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) >I have seen some theories on this before. However I'd like to see more. But I'd like this to be easily incorporated into the Almanac timeline. One problem is that we've already seen one people rise to the surface. If they all do it could look like we have nothing better to do, right? >I'm also interested in seeing if your theories can ba incorporated in a timeline with the Eternal Desert Garden gradually being realized. Well, a bunch of us are discussing Cynidicea in private emails right now, but I'll forward to you all that we've discussed so far. I'll send that to you tomorrow morning (my time), and reply to anyone in that list (ccing to the rest! :-) your various ideas. This is also a note to everyone else on the list: We are working out ideas for Cynidicea - the neglected people. Any suggestions and/or ideas concerning them should be sent to myself, Andrew Theisen, Jamuga Khan, Marco Dalmonte (DM), Fabrizio Paoli, Matthew Levy, or Jeff Daly for now. More people will be added if interest increases. I have suggested to the other members of this group that once a finalized version comes out, it should be posted to the list for comments. Once this is done, we should have ccomprehensive info on Cynidicea, for use in all campaigns. Hope to hear from you! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 98 01:08:30 EST From: jtsr-stock@jtsr-stock.com Subject: [Mystara] HOT STOCK-Double Your Money By Easter!! You have been carefully selected to receive the following as a person obviously interested in this subject based upon your previous internet postings, or visits to one of our affiliate web sites. If you have received this message in error, please accept our apology as a responsible e-mailer, and reply with the word REMOVE in the subject line. You will be automatically excluded from future e-mailings. Thank you for your consideration and help in making the Internet spam-free. ***** Visit http://www.jtsr-stock.com or call 888-295-6365 For Complete Information. Who said opportunity only knocks once. JT's Restaurant is about to be one of the fastest growing Restaurant chains. Under valued stock situations presently $2.25 per share. Analysts predict stock to go as high as $5.00 by Easter and could go up to $10.00 by end of 1998. Stock symbol JTSR on NASDAQ. If you had invested just $100.00 in 1955 in Mcdonalds, it would be worth over $100 million today. $1000 would be worth over $1 billion. Here is another opportunity for you. Look for some exciting news shortly to boost this stock!! Visit us at http://www.jtsr-stock.com or call 1-888-295-6365. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Feb 1998 17:29:03 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Net canon >>>>>"I" == Inconu writes: I> How is the matter of canon garbage? I really don't think some I> people understand what canon is. If it has the TSR label on I> it.....well hey it's canon. Unfortunately, that's not very useful since things with TSR logos sometimes contradict each other. Here's my philosophy. Everything has a source. When referring to specific things, name the source. Like, "I use the hald elves in Bruce's article" or "In GAZ3" or "In the last Net almanac". It's clear, tells people precisely what you're talking about, and avoids all this canon nonsense. "Canon" as shown here, is clearly too vague to be of any use. I> ...and some people wonder why Mystara isn't being brought back by I> WOTC No, it's because it's a small market. Ask Peter Adkinson. (I did.) The opinion of a great many people on this list is that the AD&D products for mystara tend to be crap, filled with errors and dumbed down as to act as an intro product. They weren't done by anyone who had previously worked with Mystara. Good enough reason to call them heresy? - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Yes, but every time I try to see things your way, I get a headache. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:40:40 +0100 From: "Riddle Master" Subject: [Mystara] REMOVE - ---------- >Fra: jtsr-stock@jtsr-stock.com >Til: Friend@public.com >Emne: [Mystara] HOT STOCK-Double Your Money By Easter!! Dato: 17. februar 1998 07:08 >You have been carefully selected to receive the following as a person obviously interested >in this subject based upon your previous internet postings, or visits to one of our affiliate web >sites. If you have received this message in error, please accept our apology as a >responsible e-mailer, and reply with the word REMOVE in the subject line. You will be >automatically excluded from future e-mailings. Thank you for your consideration and help >in making the Internet spam-free. ***** >Visit http://www.jtsr-stock.com or call 888-295-6365 For Complete Information. >Who said opportunity only knocks once. JT's Restaurant is about to be one of the fastest growing Restaurant chains. Under valued stock situations presently $2.25 per share. Analysts predict stock to go as high as $5.00 by Easter and could go up to $10.00 by end of 1998. Stock symbol JTSR on NASDAQ. If you had invested just $100.00 in 1955 in Mcdonalds, it would be worth over $100 million today. $1000 would be worth over $1 billion. >Here is another opportunity for you. Look for some exciting news shortly >to boost this stock!! >Visit us at http://www.jtsr-stock.com or call 1-888-295-6365. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:37:22 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Canon >Unfortunately, that's not very useful since things with TSR logos sometimes contradict each other. Right....but this is very seldom. It's done only if they want certain ideas to go other ways then when they originally created them. Just take whatever was produced last. >No, it's because it's a small market. Ask Peter Adkinson. (I did.) The opinion of a great many people on this list is that the AD&D products for mystara tend to be crap, filled with errors and dumbed down as to act as an intro product. They weren't done by anyone who had previously worked with Mystara. Good enough reason to call them heresy? Not in the least. AD&D had to make it like an intro product. The whole market which you speak of is all AD&D otherwise known as the "pollutant". If they could get Mystara accepted into AD&D and have players from other worlds try it out...then the market increases. Whether or not they were done by previous workers on Mystara has no relevence on this. I'm sure the writers can do a pretty good job on the world. Just because it doesn't say Bruce Heard on the cover...or because some of the new ideas conflict with how former writers saw the countries they came up with, doesn't mean it's incorrect. Obviously, there will be new writers for the world as time goes on anyways. Granted...most Mystara players are OD&D fanatics...but let's face it, the lack of AD&D in Mystara is what killed it. - -Inconu ------------------------------ Date: 19 Feb 1998 11:19:54 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Canon >>>>>"I" == Inconu writes: I> Not in the least. AD&D had to make it like an intro product. The I> whole market which you speak of is all AD&D otherwise known as the I> "pollutant". If they could get Mystara accepted into AD&D and have I> players from other worlds try it out...then the market increases. I'm sorry, I was unclear. It wassn't positioned as an introduction to Mystara. It was positioned as an introductory level campaign to AD&D. It's alliance to the First Quest system, etc. As such, it was ignored by virtually all of the current AD&D players and had to depend on brand new players for support. If Mystara has been positioned as a unique AD&D campaign world, suitable for all campaigns, I wouldn't have had any problem with it. Contrast the HWA1-3 adventures. They were written with AD&D in mind (in fact, they used a lot of AD&D spells and such) yet they were excellent adventures. I> Whether or not they were done by previous workers on Mystara has no I> relevence on this. I'm sure the writers can do a pretty good job on I> the world. But I don't think that they did do a good job on it. There are lots of errors, even internal inconsistencies. Again, I don't have a problem with changes, with updates, with changing the system. I can refit AD&D material to D&D without much of a problem. I do have a problem with the poor job that was done on the conversion. I have one adventure from the AD&D line that I like, but my experience with the Glantri boxed set is that it's very inferior to GAZ3. Most that was good in it came out of GAZ3 in the first place. If WotC were to revive Mystara as an AD&D game world now, position it as a full equal to FR and DL, and spend the same care and attention that the original authors did, I would be a very happy person. I wouldn't run an AD&D campaign, and it would take me a while to run past WotI, but I would definately purchase the products happily and fit them into my campaign. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted The scenery only changes for the lead dog. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:44:56 +0100 From: "Marzio Spairani" Subject: [Mystara] REMOVE Marzio Spairani (A.K.A. Twinkle Proudfoot) Genova-Italy Spairani@aleph.it http://www.aleph.it/~spairani ************ Lontan sui monti fumidi e gelati/in antri fondi, oscuri, desolati,/prima che sorga il sol dobbiamo andare/ i pallidi a cercar ori incantati. J.R.R.Tolkien - Lo Hobbit - -----Messaggio originale----- Da: jtsr-stock@jtsr-stock.com A: Friend@public.com Data: martedì 17 febbraio 1998 8.34 Oggetto: [Mystara] HOT STOCK-Double Your Money By Easter!! >You have been carefully selected to receive the following as a person obviously interested >in this subject based upon your previous internet postings, or visits to one of our affiliate web >sites. If you have received this message in error, please accept our apology as a >responsible e-mailer, and reply with the word REMOVE in the subject line. You will be >automatically excluded from future e-mailings. Thank you for your consideration and help >in making the Internet spam-free. ***** >Visit http://www.jtsr-stock.com or call 888-295-6365 For Complete Information. >Who said opportunity only knocks once. JT's Restaurant is about to be one of the fastest growing Restaurant chains. Under valued stock situations presently $2.25 per share. Analysts predict stock to go as high as $5.00 by Easter and could go up to $10.00 by end of 1998. Stock symbol JTSR on NASDAQ. If you had invested just $100.00 in 1955 in Mcdonalds, it would be worth over $100 million today. $1000 would be worth over $1 billion. Here is another opportunity for you. Look for some exciting news shortly to boost this stock!! >Visit us at http://www.jtsr-stock.com or call 1-888-295-6365. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:49:37 -0800 From: David Keyser Subject: Re: [Mystara] Canon >Granted...most Mystara players are OD&D fanatics...but let's face it, the lack of AD&D in Mystara is what killed it. Conceding that many gamers did not try Mystara because it was D&D as opposed to the "better" AD&D, this is not the true reason it was discontinued by TSR. Mystara thrived for 10 years strictly as a D&D setting. Bruce Heard explained on this list some time ago that TSR did not like having to split their people to support two games which cover essentially the same market. Apparently it took time to get someone up to speed on the differences between D&D and AD&D. So they finally decided to merge Mystara to AD&D to conserve resources and save money. That alienated about one-quarter to one-half of Mystara fans, and the poor quality of the AD&D Mystara products finished the job. Dave Keyser ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 9:59:00 -0500 From: Michael Southon Subject: [Mystara] Hmmmmm.... Problem: I removed myself from the MML about three weeks ago, and at that time it was on MPGN. Now I am getting messages from IO.COM and my network administrater (Hey! That's me!) is not impressed. How do I remove myself from IO.COM? PS. Don't reply to the MML, as I don't know if I'll get it, I only seem to get 10 messages a day, pls mail me direct. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:41:56 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [Mystara] Canon >Conceding that many gamers did not try Mystara because it was D&D as opposed to the "better" AD&D, this is not the true reason it was discontinued by TSR. Mystara thrived for 10 years strictly as a D&D setting. Bruce Heard explained on this list some time ago that TSR did not like having to split their people to support two games which cover essentially the same market. He also said that the people who took over Mystara had no knowledge of it, and had no apparent consideration for the work that had been done before. IIRC Bruce was quite upset over the so-called "Nipponization" of Bellayne (according to the Princess Ark series, Bellayne is supposed to be British in flavour - besides, we have Japanese rakastas on Myoshima). He also mentioned the sudden destruction of so many towns and forts on the Savage Coast, and no reasons were really given for the change, and nothing was rebuilt. I just ignore those elements from the Red Steel boxed set, anyway. I really think the AD&D products insulted the intelligence of many hard-core Mystarans. It's no wonder to me that many people like what's being written by everyone here; at least our materials are written by people who: 1. Know the world 2. Care about it Apparently it took time to get someone up to speed on the differences between D&D and AD&D. So they finally decided to merge Mystara to AD&D to conserve resources and save money. That alienated about one-quarter to one-half of Mystara fans, and the poor quality of the AD&D Mystara products finished the job. Would YOU want to buy any Mystara products if your first impression was based on the CD boxed sets? IIRC, someone said Mystara "sucked" because the products were so bad, and only later it was revealed that this person had only seen the AD&D material.... Go figure. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:50:10 -0500 From: lordvalen@juno.com (Jakklyph Valen Kroe) Subject: [Mystara] Apologies-a test post Testing... 1, 2, 3. Lord Valen http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/1337 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: 19 Feb 1998 21:38:31 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) >>>>>"A" == Aaron E Nowack writes: A> I am planning on running I2 and U1 in Darokin around the Malphegi I've been working myself on how to get U1-3 in, but I'm also running into the problem of the sahaugin... Legged shark-kin might be the best idea, in fury because of the loss of their islands, but there isn't the same feeling of hatred from the other sea races, and I don't have the impression that the shark-kin are adept enough to create the fortress in U3. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Been Transferred Lately? ------------------------------ Date: 20 Feb 1998 10:06:40 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: D&D vs. AD&D >>>>>"3" == 3 <3@giga.com.ar> writes: 3> I don't give the wizards the possibility of using weapons, except 3> the dagger, in lower levels. But during the game he can become a 3> warrior if he really want, something stupid. In fact in the books 3> (I use the books not the Cyclopedia) the wizard can be a Mystic in 3> high levels. That's very interesting. I have Basic through Immortals boxed sets and I don't remember class change rules like this. Could you point out where they are? - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. -- Kathy Norris ------------------------------ Date: 20 Feb 1998 15:24:15 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Random Thoughts >>>>>"I" == Inconu writes: I> << I have always treated Infravision in the same way that I've I> treated a human's nightvision. It takes some time to adjust to the I> darkness, and any light ruins it. >> I> In D&D terms...i believe that's called Ultravision. I think that I> would be better if Elves did have Ultravision instead of I> Infravision. No. I don't believe that D&D hs Ultravision. I think that's AD&D only. Ultravision is using ultraviolet light (from the sky and night) to see. As such, it only works outside, not within dungeons. Infravison, of course, is using heat. I don't recall any rule books which have discussed _when_ infravision worked, but the connotation has always been that it's a darkness vision. In that case, it would make sense if an elf couldn't detect heatunless there were no light to obscure the infravision. After all, when people are in low light situations they see mostly using black & white sensors which are not as noticed during the day. Also, given the rulebook explanation of infravision (blue for cold things, red for warm, iirc), I can't see how they could see both that _and_ normal visiual color at the same time. Since elves can see color, I presume they could _not_ see heat. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Teachers have class. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:45:05 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: [Mystara] Infravision Infravision is only possible when there are no strong sources of light. any torches within 20 feet, any light spells, any sunlight, and rarely when the full moon is unhindered by clouds and the like...it my interfere with infravision. >Also, given the rulebook explanation of infravision (blue for cold things, red for warm, iirc), I can't see how they could see both that _and_ normal visiual color at the same time. Since elves can see color, I presume they could _not_ see heat. Infravison, is like seeing through the eyes of the monster in the movie predator. For those of you who never saw it, every color in the spectrum you see isn't as with normal vision. More like the heat or absense of heat has different colors. So, the color spectrum is still there, but the range is on a different level. The hottest rangeing from yellows to orange-reds to white. body heat would be red in the cardiovascular region and dulled down to a yellow nearing the extremities. - -Inconu ------------------------------ Date: 20 Feb 1998 16:15:26 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Carnifex Servitors >>>>>"DJ" == DJ Sahlas writes: DJ> When we talk about our individual "personalized" Mystara we DJ> use "IMC". When we talk about published stuff we use the word DJ> "canon" (although frankly the word is starting to make me sick). DJ> The problem is that we have no separate designation for MML stuff. We don't need it. Just say "The Carniflex Tyranny assumes that" or "Net Almanac 1014 says that" or "The Rules Cyclopedia explains that " and suddenly, anything you say is labeled where it came from so The Great Kahn can see where it came from and if he should be troubled to listen to it. Identifying and naming "Net Canon" is not going to do any goo dfor anyone except Jamuga, who will use everything that is net canon and nothing that isn't. Me, I use some rules from here, some ideas from there, etc. The commonality that we have is the availability of these resources and the ability to read them and decide for ourselves. Applying a generic label of "suitedness" to MML discussions is too broad, since Jamuga has already said he doesn't use the Carniflex Tyranny (and that it shouldn't be discussd without lots of disclaimers) but he does use the Net Almanac. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Conquering Russia should be done steppe by steppe. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:47:56 +0000 From: "Chad & Diane Moore" Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: D&D vs. AD&D >To: mystara-l@lists.io.com >Subject: [Mystara] Re: D&D vs. AD&D >From: Alan Shutko >Date: 20 Feb 1998 10:06:40 -0600 >Reply-to: mystara-l@lists.io.com >>>>>>"3" == 3 <3@giga.com.ar> writes: >3> I don't give the wizards the possibility of using weapons, except 3> the dagger, in lower levels. But during the game he can become a 3> warrior if he really want, something stupid. In fact in the books 3> (I use the books not the Cyclopedia) the wizard can be a Mystic in 3> high levels. >That's very interesting. I have Basic through Immortals boxed sets and I don't remember class change rules like this. Could you point out where they are? Mystic had nothing to do with wizards in the original rules. Mystics were essentially fighting monks. Chad & Diane Moore dcmoore@worldlynx.net ------------------------------ Date: 20 Feb 1998 16:57:11 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [Mystara] Re: Why the authoritarianism? >>>>>"G" == Galwylin writes: G> By the way, there are no 'canon police'. The problem is that canon, by it's very nature, implies canon police and people being told "Your material is not canon. Shut up and don't waste my time." It's a self-serving thing. By labeling things you lkike as canon and other things as non-canon, you can readily separate them and free your time. It's a bad word. Sorry, it's a bad concept. It works in Trek debates, religion and such where there is a clear authority deciding what is in the official universe and what is not. On the mailing list, there appears to be someone who wants to claim the authority, but the fact is, nobody has it. It seems to me that you don't care about canon, but about having different areas developed so that when you get to them, you can evaluate that area and see if it works in your campaign. This is a good thing. I'd be in favor of a listing or something of the various developments by various people. In the occurance that two or more people develop conflicting views of one area (which hasn't, iirc, happened yet), we list them both. It might come to pass that Sarah's Hule development only works well with Joe's Sind expansions and not Rex's, but that can be worked out between the people involved and noted. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted May your camel be as swift as the wind. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 98 22:26:24 EST From: Dave Brohman Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: D&D vs. AD&D Alan Shutko writes: >>>>>>"3" == 3 <3@giga.com.ar> writes: >3> I don't give the wizards the possibility of using weapons, except 3> the dagger, in lower levels. But during the game he can become a 3> warrior if he really want, something stupid. In fact in the books 3> (I use the books not the Cyclopedia) the wizard can be a Mystic in 3> high levels. >That's very interesting. I have Basic through Immortals boxed sets and I don't remember class change rules like this. Could you point out where they are? Nope. This post had nothing to do with me. I did not write it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Brohman Carleton University dbrohman@chat.carleton.ca ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:16:56 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Why the authoritarianism? << The problem is that canon, by it's very nature, implies canon police and people being told "Your material is not canon. Shut up and don't waste my time." It's a self-serving thing. By labeling things you lkike as canon and other things as non-canon, you can readily separate them and free your time. >> Nobody said Shut up and don't waste my time. Also, canon is not created of things we like......as i said before...the canon material is just what has been published on Mystara. And as Galwylin has stated numerous times....it's a centerpiece....it's something everyone on the list can relate to....Why can't you see this? - -Inconu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:29:45 -0600 From: etmp@etmp.com Subject: [Mystara] Eventemp Stock(ETMP) Heating Up-Huge Orders Coming In!! To be removed from our lists, simply reply with "REMOVE" in the subject. *** News Flash *** 02/17/98 - Eventemp Corporation Announces 28 Million Dollar Agreement with Excaliber Automobile Corporation. *** News Flash *** 01/30/98 - Eventemp Receives 27 Million Dollar Contract - Company expects net profit of 5 to 6 million dollars. Other large contracts pending. Huge profit potential. Analyst say look for Eventemp (Symbol OTC BB: ETMP) to go as high as $10.00 by March 1. Analysts predict that stock could shoot to $6.00 in the next few days. Stock rose over 41% on 01/30/98 - Get in while there is still time. 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The contents of this message have been provided for the review of potential investors only and does not constitute an offering of securities. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:06:34 EST From: DUFFISGOD@aol.com Subject: [Mystara] Mystara's Survival I really enjoyed the ad&d Mystara products the poor wizards almanac was the best I liked it a lot but you could sense the difference when Anne Dupuis took it over. What I didn't like was that Champions of Mystara (a basic D&D boxed set) was about the border between the Red Steel and Known world campaign settings meaning that in order to play a complete Mystara campaign you would have to convert a lot of stuff to AD&D although the conversion in the back of the Rules Cyclopedia helped a lot. It also took away the small world aspect of Mystara it took the Minrothad guilds away from the Red Steel campaign and left Hule still ton be discovered. Plus you could no longer read the plots of the immortals like you could in the Challenger Series. I Think it was more poor editing than the bad writing. The Mystara setting was seen as beginners setting and was not given the attention an older or more experienced (I say more experienced because I am 17 and have been playing for 8 1\2 years) would like. It was never adapted to the ad&d system as things were not decided on what was basic D&D rules (planar system) and what was crucial to the setting (hollow world). I would love to see a good Closet cleaning and remodeling of Mystara for its ultimate revival But I. Think for it to survive as a marketable product it needs to be adapted fully into the ad&d universe (and multiverse). Also TSR has to recognize that Keep on the Borderlands may be the best D&D adventure Wrath Of The Immortals was the best Mystara adventure. well that's my two coppers (Plus interest) I BURNED ATHAS duff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 98 20:43:38 From: robert Subject: RE: [Mystara] Infravision - --- On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:45:05 EST Inconu@aol.com wrote: Infravision is only possible when there are no strong sources of light. any torches within 20 feet, any light spells, any sunlight, and rarely when the full moon is unhindered by clouds and the like...it my interfere with infravision. >Also, given the rulebook explanation of infravision (blue for cold things, red for warm, iirc), I can't see how they could see both that _and_ normal visiual color at the same time. Since elves can see color, I presume they could _not_ see heat. Infravison, is like seeing through the eyes of the monster in the movie predator. For those of you who never saw it, every color in the spectrum you see isn't as with normal vision. More like the heat or absense of heat has different colors. So, the color spectrum is still there, but the range is on a different level. The hottest rangeing from yellows to orange-reds to white. body heat would be red in the cardiovascular region and dulled down to a yellow nearing the extremities. - -Inconu - -----------------End of Original Message----------------- This is how I have crossed these barriers: 1.) Yes, infravision is effected just as you said (i.e. torch, moon, light etc) 2.) Infravision is just normal sight (i.e. what we would see on a dark cloudy day) Thanks, Robert p.s. I know this gives humanoids great leverage against humans but it does solve your problems on how to treat it. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V2 #242 *****************************