Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 04:34:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #70 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 89f4a9ac445392a29f7dc1f8a440f65e mystara-digest Thursday, February 12 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 070 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors [MYSTARA] - Re: your mail [MYSTARA] - Tuma Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions [MYSTARA] - Re: your mail Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Trolde (was: Immortal Mortal Identities) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - More Danish words ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:57:13 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors A couple of points here: 1) the Kopru are not evolved from the Carnifex in a genetic sense. They were created by them from mollusk, reptilian, and human genes. The carnifex are reptiles, but the kopru are part mollusk. This was NOT a natural occurence. 2) the name of the Serpentine empire certainly implies a more snake like race than the carnifex, i believe the original suggestion was Yuan-Ti. can the original creator of this background please delineate exactly what races were present in the serpentine ranks? m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:47:23 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: your mail 48 bucks? is that US$? thats ridiculous. its not even that great a module and i think i've seen one recently for less than $10. m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >I need some opinions, >I know how I can get a brand new, shrink-wrapped X11 "Saga of the Shadowlord" for 48$. Is it worth it? >Thanks >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:41:33 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: [MYSTARA] - Tuma here is my now very late and still very unfinished timeline for Tuma. >In the original module B5: Horror on the Hill? I don't know. The only one that wasn't ever really placed (to my knowledge) is B8: Journey to the Rock, which is pretty much just a generic module. wrong. B8 was places in southeastern Darokin, just to the north of the eastern five shires where those two rivers start in the Cruth mountains that flow west through the forest to Darokin city ... these two rivers are the two that show up in the module. In fact, it's funny you should bring this up, because one of the things I have been meaning to post to the list is my theory about the City of Tuma which is featured in the module ... it is a major city from the distant past that has been placed into an alternate plane. Long before the GAZ series came out, I used this city in my campaign as an ancestor of Thyatis, on the theory that where there is Byzantium, there's Rome (if you catch my drift). Anyhoo, I've since been trying to update this idea to integrate it with more recent historical "discoveries" - let's see what everybody thinks of this: c. 3000 BC: The wreck of the Beagle, which has brought so much suffering and destruction to Mystara, is metamorphosed by the Pandian Council into the magical Nucleus of the Spheres, and it is moved from its original location to a huge cavern deep beneath the surface of Brun. This new location is not revealed to even the most powerful of mortals. The remnants of the Teigh-Mohr Combine, the Necromancer-Kings of Taymora, seek for the artifact in vain. (I threw this in just to put later parts in context. I'm not even sure of the date on the Nucleus so please don't kill me, I'll revise this if I fucked up). c. 2200 BC?: The Kopru Empire begins its rise to power, aided by the arrival in the Thanegioth Islands of Tanagoro/Oltec humans who replace the troglodytes as favored slaves of the Kopru. (this is really rough at present. the Carnifex foldings in the Thanegioths collapsed c. 7700 BC and i am not certain what happened in the meantime ... the kopru were probably active, as well as Nagas and Yuan-Ti from the Serpentine Empire. There are also the Aranea, Rakasta, Tasloi, Ogres and Trolls, and Phanatons to account for ... the 2200 BC date is related to the arrival of the Tanagoro in Yavdlom but subject to radical revision if necessary - the eventual idea is that the kopru are involved in the destruction of Tuma indirectly, but i haven't worked out the dates for that yet. Also, there is the involvement of the Devilfish, Twaelar, and Taymorans to consider in this time period). 662-637 BC Thyatin migration to northern continent (this part's still kind of a mess, but i will rewrite it when i get the chance) c. 600 BC: Thyatin, Kerendan, and Hattian sea reavers begin to return permanently to the northern continent. They war against the Doulakki, who are the native human inhabitants of the southeastern coastal area (their language and culture are related to the Traldar/Milenians). 572 BC: Death of Gunzuth the Clanless, founding of the Five Shires. 561 BC: A member of the Council of Alphatia, a wizard named Arkenas, who specializes in extradimensional magic, happens almost by blind luck to discover the wreck of the FSS Beagle (the Nucleus of the Spheres) beneath the continent of Brun, in Orc territory. He is about to bring this information to the attention of the Council, when an attempt is made on his life by an unidentified assassin. Fearing intrigue in Sundsvall, Arkenas flees with his secret to the western lands of the Antalians, with whose ways he is familiar. 558 BC: As the Orcs of the lands that will become Darokin are being slowly pressed back by Mealiden Starwatcher's Elves in the east and the newly resurgent Hin to the south, an ignominious little Hamlet names Tuma is established near little Lake Neshonan in the Cruth mountains. The new inhabitants of the town are a mixed group of humans: some are from the Traldar lands to the south, but many are Thyatins from among the newly arrived "sea tribes"; they seek a new home on the other side of the mountains, away from the constant warfare between the Doulakki, Traldar, and Thyatin groups, who are being manipulated by their corrupt Nithian overlords. The new "Tumans" are led by the far-travelling Alphatian wizard Arkenas. The town is lucky to have his guidance, for he manages to stave off attacks from Orcs, Dwarves, Nithian troops, and sundry bands of Traldar rovers in the next few years. 555 BC: Arkenas begins writing a formal and complete law code for the new city. Unbeknownst to his people, this law code also contains within it a subtly encrypted message which gives the location of the Nucleus. 554 BC, september 4th: Arkenas of Tuma leads his people, along with Hin and Elvish auxiliaries, to defeat an Orcish horde led by Queen Udbala's maternal grandfather, King Udgar the Oiled (Anointed?), at the old Traldar port of Athenos. 554-530 BC Kerendans migrate to Brun 534 BC: Arkenas completes the Codex of Tuman Law. 529 BC : Arkenas dies peacefully in his sleep. The townspeople of Tuma have already de facto agreed to a hereditary monarchy of his male descendants, but his only son Corus is not nearly the great wizard his father was. However, Corus is perhaps an even better diplomat and politician. He forges an alliance with the Elves to the north and the Hin rebels to the south, allowing him to draw upon their help to fight off attackers, and helping to bring the two demi-human races closer together in the process. 517-513 BC: Massive famine and disease in the Nithian Valley to the east. The final collapse of the Empire is underway. 511 BC: Antalian marauders sack the Nithian capital; Pharaoh Seth-Nekket (do we already have a canonical name for the last Pharaoh of Nithia? I couldn't find one so I made one up) flees west to Tuma. King Corus, unable to restrain his curiosity, agrees to shelter the corrupt God-Emperor of the Nithians in exchange for access to forbidden magical knowledge. The people of Tuma live in fear of the death-pall the Pharaoh brings to the town, and the Elvish advisors sent by Mealiden all caution against Corus' actions, but he is not disuaded. In Nithia, chaos reigns as giant-led Antalians, Black Moon Gnolls, and Troglodytes (perhaps I should change this to Lizard Men, or Sis'thik) vie for mastery of the quickly depopulating river valley. 503 BC: Having acheived an alliance with the High General of the Thyatin Seareavers, Pharaoh Seth-Nekket leaves Tuma, marching with an army of mercenary humanoids to reclaim his Imperial Throne. 501 BC: Pharaoh Seth-Nekket has managed to partially retake his homeland, but he is killed by the Antalian hero Sigurd, a paladin who wields a Dwarf-wrought holy lance and rides into battle astride a huge White Dragon. Command of the Pharaoh's forces in the Valley falls to a Doulakki mercenary-general/king named Alexander (here is where I wanted to insert Cynidicea into the Tuma timeline ... there is much more work to do here but I will leave that till later). Violence and anarchy continue. 498 BC: Alexander reaches an agreement with the Gnoll chieftain Ghurnazzal. The two agree to join forces in an attack on the Antalians, driving them back north. Alexander builds a pyramid in celebration. 494 BC: the pyramid is completed. Zargon begins corrupting the Cynidiceans. Doulakki power begins to wane further. 493 BC: Queen Udbala of the Broken Lands raises the Great Horde and marches north, recruiting more troops from the Goblins and Gnolls. 492 BC: Battle of Sardal Pass. The Orcs are routed and massacred by the Dwarves. Kobolds invade the Gnomish Falun Caverns. 490 BC: By this point the Gnomes of the Northern Reaches have been driven out or killed. 480 BC: Hattians migrate to Brun c. 475 BC: Dwarves begin exploration and colonization of neighboring territories. 468 BC: A sizeable group of Dwarves is allowed to settle in Tuma; they begin mining operations in the Cruth mountains nearby. 462 BC, july 11th (i apologize for the non-mystaran months, i don't have my calendar handy but will convert these later): Adraneos Cindiel leads Tuman and Elvish troops to defeat Cheiranon Doulakhon at Athakia; The Doulakki are no longer an important political force. 454? BC, august 4th: Elvish citadel built at Corun's Glen 400 BC: King Aurille II of Haven abdicates in favor of Orollion and Rowena 353 BC, september 8th: The Salonikos Confederacy is formed (this ties together the Tumans, the Elves, the Hin and the now fast-declining Cynidiceans - the other allies are not very certain of the eastern humans at all but feel they have no better choice - Thyatins? Antalians? Gnolls? Dwarves?!!?!). :) 350 BC: Mealiden Starwatcher abdicates the throne. Alevar Grunalf is King of Alfheim. 251 BC: Glimreen Gemeye discovers a jet engine artifact from Blackmoorian times. ? november 26th Romulus and remus born (okay this is very incomplete ... my idea is to tie Tuma to the RW Rome by having Tuma's dates of existence = the time between Aeneas' voyage from Troy and the founding of Rome - Arkenas = Aeneas. not sure how i want to do this. any suggestions?) 202 BC, october 3rd: Ilirinia is born. 200 BC? Eastwind clan in control of southern Darokin 192 BC: Alphatian troops invade Thyatis. 190 BC: Alphatian conquest of Thyatis complete. 178 BC, april 24th: Lirdrium Arkayz born. 157 BC, december 4th: Traefus Izkirant is born. Lirdrium and Traefus are the two senator's sons who will later be chosen to guard the halves of the Tuman amulet. 155 BC, april 8th: Darokin City founded. c. 150 BC: Humanoid attacks on Alfheim prompted by Shadow Elves. work begins on flying city of Serraine. Nagpa and Tabi arrive and volunteer to help with the construction. (Nagpa are coming from Varellya I think?) 130 BC: The City of Tuma disappears from Mystara c. 100 BC: Traldar slaves in Lost Valley revolt against the Hutaaka. (perhaps Hutaaka are involved in security relationship with Tuma) 98 BC: Rebellion against the corrupt King Bollo of Rockhome; Rockhome Senate Established, after the Tuman/Thyatin model. 91 BC Sphinxes join Serraine project 14 BC the outer shell of Serraine is completed. 2 BC: Lucinius Trenzantanbium drives out or kills Alphatian overlords. 1 BC: Gnomes settle Highforge in Traladara territory 1 AC: Zendrolion Tatrokanitas becomes Emperor. 9 AC Gnomes contact Faenare to join Serraine 16 AC work begun on Great Library of Serraine 20 AC: Emperor Zendrolion dies. Empress Valentia the Justiciar issues her Citizen's Proclamation and initiates other reforms. 21 AC: Ansel Darokin declares himself King of Darokin, beginning the reign of the Eastwind Kings. 39 AC, Ambyrmont 1: The Flying City of Serraine makes its maiden flight. 91 AC Great LIbrary of Serraine completed. 114 AC?: (Tarquins ovethrown) (3)50 AC, april 9th: Sage of Atorathe born. (3)87 AC, april 20th: first battle of Shattenfaelsen this is still a mess. please disregard anything that is simply incoherent but if you have suggestions or comments or criticisms please please email me when you can. thanks, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:11:48 PST From: "Terry Wilcox" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing Perhaps a better question, is there a place that I could easily get my hands on most of the net Mystera material?? Every single post I read on this mailing list brings up something new that I didn't know. I would like to know if there is some place that is easily orginized so I can learn the basics (honestly, this mailing list isn't the greatest for picking up the basics. I think it is better for discussing after you know well). I have found a few sites, but usually I can't distingish important stuff from the obscure. Thanks Terry ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:57:57 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) the AD&D troll is copped almost verbatim from the Poul Anderson novel Three Hearts & Three Lions, which has a WWII Danish resistance fighter named Holger Carlsen go back in time and become one of Charlemagne's Paladins, Ogier le Dane. It has various pseudo-scientific explanations of mythological monsters, including a big regenerating green troll whose limbs keep moving after he is killed. not his best novel but interesting nonetheless. written i think in the late 60's. peace, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: ><> >>By the way. Does anyone know where the Green, regenearting AD&D troll comes from? It has nothing to do with scandinavian fairy-tales/Mytholgy, and personally I think its a silly creature) >I think the AD&D troll is Gary Gygax's (remember him?) interpretation of the bridge troll of 3 goats fame. Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 04:34:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #70 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 89f4a9ac445392a29f7dc1f8a440f65e >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:50:40 EST From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions In a message dated 98-02-11 17:07:32 EST, you write: << I have some questions about D&D (not AD&D), since this seems to be the best place to discuss it. I finally obtained a copy of the Rules Cyclopedia and am thinking of running a campaign. Long ago I ran using the D&D Basic and Expert sets, but the RC has a lot of new stuff (to me) as well as some of the same old issues. Ability Scores: do most folks make "fair" rolls as described in the rules (including 1-for-2 adjustments) or do you use a "cheater" method from AD&D? I'm just curious; I like ordinary characters, but a lot of them are *so* ordinary (or even pathetic) it is hard to choose a class. Sometimes I think that the high mortality rate among 1st level characters is designed to weed out those with low scores so you can try again for a better character... I stuck to the straight 3d6 for years... although for first level characters (only) I employed the rule that if their first hit point roll wasn't on the upper half of the die (3-4 for MUs & thieves; 4-6 for halflings, elves, & clerics; 5-8 for dwarves & fighters) they got to re-roll until it was. Classes: anyone using the optional demi-human classes written up by Bryan Maloney? Not sure which ones those were, but used a number of variant classes from many sources with a lot of success. Levels: one cool thing about D&D is you can advance to 36th level and have truly heroic adventures, and there are some amazingly tough monsters too. Do most campaigns start at first level and progress up to 20+? Or do most campaigns stay low powered, or start with high-level characters? >> All of my campaigns have begun at first level. I have run several through the years, and of the ones I have run only two reached truly high levels, and only a single character has accomplished the staggering task of Immortality. One of these campaigns lasted about a year and a half, and the other about three years, with regular (weekly or more often) playing. I think the long time put into the characters and their "growing up" from first level is what makes them memorable. Skipping past that period of developing the characters often robs the players of some of the game's more memorable moments. Just my opinion. - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:01:44 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: your mail Daly pontificated: >I need some opinions, >I know how I can get a brand new, shrink-wrapped X11 "Saga of the Shadowlord" for 48$. Is it worth it? Well, if you want it as a collector's item, it might. Since price of those thing are just what they meant to the owner. But if you just want a reference material, you should able to find a average condition one for about $20. I try to find old modules used in conventions or gaming stores. Often you can find unexpected bargin. Whenever I visit a new city, I always call up the gaming store in the yellow pages, and ask whether they carry used gaming suppies or not. From time to time you can get good price on the net too, but people know their price pretty well on that newsgroup, and it is unlikly you going to get a great deal from there. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:44:46 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics Hi! ><< Jawohl, Herr, es wird so wie es gesagt haben gemacht werden. >> And again, (if you read my posts often, you will know it already) an error! Jawohl, Herr, es wird so, wie Sie es gesagt haben, gemacht werden. >It seems so, that Germany and Austria are two lands separated by their language. Not really. You could really compare the difference in language with Britain and the USA. ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:28:21 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >As my campaign revolves more along the relationship of friendly Traladarans (as opposed to enemy Hattians) how about some friendly translations? For instance: >1) Dear one, your meal is ready. DoroGOI, tvoYA yeDA goTOva. (speaking to a female, substitute 'dorogoi' with 'doroGAya') >2) Mother, I have returned. MAma, ya vozvraTILsya ('vozvraTIlas' if the speaker if female) >3) Yes sir, it will be as you say. Tak TOCHno, BUdet SDElano! >4) There is no land I love more than ancient Traladara. Ya ne lyuBLYU ni odNOI zemLI tak, kak DREVnei Traladary. >Thanks! SpaSIbo! ;) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:29:45 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Let me help Lille My out here. >This is a bit tricky but here we go: ae is pronounced like the a in Cat. aa is pronounced almost like the o in Force. and oe is pronouced like the ea in Earth. >This might not be axactly correct, but it should be close to it. Or, if you are familiar with German, ae is pronounced like ä, and oe like ö. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:42:54 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Trolde (was: Immortal Mortal Identities) At 12:38 11-02-98 +0100, you wrote: >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >>On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >>>troll trold >>>mage troldmand >>This is interesting... You mean a mage is called a "troll-something"? >In the scandinavian languages the word troll (trold in danish) is an interesting one. The word was originally used describing both supernatural creatures and activities(ie. magic.) Its association with the "modern" troll(ie large ugly humanoids) is of a much more recent origin. These creatures were created in the 16th-17thC. >However, the Trolls/Giants/Jotuns of Norse Mythology were known to be very apt with magic. Thats true and I had some time to think about it and look up some words and found an explanation. Trolls (trolde) posses magical abilities (and aren't very stupid), they are able to "trylle" -> "trolde" and a troldmand is person who possesses the ability to do troll-like things, that is "trylle" and therefore is person wielding "troll-powers" and therefore a troldmand >By the way. Does anyone know where the Green, regenearting AD&D troll comes from? It has nothing to do with scandinavian fairy-tales/Mytholgy, and personally I think its a silly creature) >Håvard I agree completely. I don't use the AD&D trolls myself. I replace them in most cases with small giants or ogres and make sure that there is an obvious confusion using both the term troll and giant when describing it. It is sort of make all faerie and troll-like creatures alien and hard to understand and describe. They live in their own world where you can't classify them easily, and this is important to the faeries as the less people know about them, the more powers they posses, so to easily defeat a faerie you just have to know a lot about and the fewer abilities does it posses. Likewise I also changed goblins to wood/forest trolls and kobolds to mountain/hill trolls, as neither the goblins nor kobolds fit very well into the danish language and it help changing the PCs view of the critters as they are not sure what they are dealing with. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:40:16 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Candidates On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Andrew Morrow wrote: >Travestis: (34TT/10D patron: Masawu, Entropy) The corrupted treant is approaching the end of his path to Immortality. His part in helping the Shadow Elves corrupt Canolbarth forest and corrupting the spell beyond their ability to reverse it, fulfilled his Testimony. He has only his Task to complete, the full scope of which is unknown, but which will include making sure that the Shadow and surface Elves do not make peace and promoting conflict throughout the area. Hmm, is the Masauwu sponsorship official? I think Atzanteotl would fit better, given his role in corrupting Canolbarth and his portfolio of corruption. >Prince Brannart McGregor: (M33, patron: Thanatos, Entropy) Brannart has finally uncovered enough information to petition for an Immortal sponsor. He is presently crafting his gift before traveling to the sight of petition- the temple of Thanatos on the Isle of Oceania. Wouldn't he rather try to attain Immortality using Radiance, like Etienne? That's what he is studying it for, after all. Otherwise your ideas are very good. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:51:51 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 14:32 11-02-98 +0100, you wrote: >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>Thanks alot! Now, how does one pronounce "ae"? Is it a long "I" as in the word "Bike"? >>And how does one pronounce "aa"? >Let me help Lille My out here. >This is a bit tricky but here we go: ae is pronounced like the a in Cat. aa is pronounced almost like the o in Force. and oe is pronouced like the ea in Earth. >This might not be axactly correct, but it should be close to it. >Håvard Tak Håvard. It is tricky and I have an additional suggestion to the pronounciation problem. æ = ae it also a bit like the e in get Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:03:25 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>The first known written mentioning of Austria is from 997 (or was itt 996?). We just celebrated a milenium! >Congratulations! I am very happy for you. Our 200th year was a blast! Only 200th? We in Russia celebrated 1100 years some time ago. ;) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:40:01 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More Danish words At 14:30 11-02-98 EST, you wrote: < 1) Dear one, your meal is ready. >2) Mother, I have returned. >3) Yes sir, it will be as you say. >4) There is no land I love more than ancient Traladara. >> 1) Kære, maden er klar. 2) Mor, jer er vendt tilbage. 3) Ja hr./sir, de skal blive, som de ønsker. 4) Der er intet land jeg elsker højere end ældgamle Traladara. And some more Danish words. Unicorn Enhjørning Horse Hest Werewolf Varulv Vampire Vampyr Doppelganger Dobbelgænger Bat Flagermus Griffon Grif Shark Haj Snake Slange Immortal Udødelig Ghost Spøgelse, genganger, fantom, ånd, gespenst. Undead Udød Will'o'Wisp Lygtemand Morningstar Morgenstjerne Flail (krigs-)plejl Dagger dolk Sword sværd Club kølle Axe økse Spear spyd lance Lanse Knife kniv Shield skjold Armor rustning Coin mønt Longbow langbue Shortbow kortbue Arrow Pil Crossbow Armbryst Helmet hjælm Rope reb Chariot stridsvogn And a few words from the Danish (Scandinavian) mtyhology. Thor, Tyr, Odin, Freja, Frigg, Loke, Hel, Mimer, Balder. Ask Yggdrasil. Udgård, Midgård, Asgård I just couldn't stay out of this, if there are any specific request, then let me know and I shall try to bring you the right translations. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #70 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:07:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #71 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 3ed553a55c971b2b6599b1b376dc78e8 mystara-digest Thursday, February 12 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 071 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing [MYSTARA] - RE: Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions [MYSTARA] - Re: Hin Immortals Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - More Danish words Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Sulescu and Morphail? Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - More Danish words Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:11:40 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 13:32 11-02-98 EST, you wrote: ><< I don't know the origin of the words, so I can't explain why it is so, but II'll try look it up, but nobody thinks of a troldmand being in anyway related to a troll. >> >Scandinavian trolls are completely different from D&D trolls. They're little earth spirits. Isn't that kobolds or dwarves? But then again this is one big confusion. It is very difficult to translate the names of the creatures from folklore and local mythology and the problem doesn't always get better when litterature changes the perception of some of the critters, such as the elf, which changed considerably in Tolkiens Lord of the Rings, where as it earlier in Scandinavian mythology/folklore was much closer to the dryad creature adopted from Greek mythology. For example is there no proper translation of goblin, gnome, kobold, hobgoblin, orc and ogre to Danish, but also the other way round with things such as Santa's Elves (I know this may sound stupid but try to hang on for a moment). In English they are elves, in Danish they are nisser which are commonly translated to pixies, but pixies are normally translated to feer (sing. fe) or alfer (sing. alf and is pretty close to the Danish word for elf: elver). However there are also "independent nisser", these are originally housrholdspirits like the brownie/leprechaun. But with time nisse changed, but stayed the householdhelper, but was now tied to Christmas (juleaften, for those of you wondering about the origin of "yule"), appearing at this time of year and wearing a red cap. The word nisse is a nickname for Niels and many peasents/farmers once wore a red cap. During the 19. century Christmas was developed and the nisse was designed. OOps this got a bit long, sorry but I just can't stop once I get started. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:54:43 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! >Also I miss the presence of Sefs. Gaz1 (Karameikos) seems to imply that Karameikos is quite unusual for not having serfs. However I'm having trouble finding nations that do. Thyatis would have litle need to due to the presence of slaves and in Darokin, there is this great middle class. (How do they manage that?) >My only candidates for feudal countries having serfs are Heldann and Norwold. >Comments? I guess that the Northern Reaches might have slaves too, called trælle. Prisoners caught during their raids, especially for the Ostlanders. The 'noids of Broken Lands might as well use slaves, though they probably doesn't last long and untill his fall i'd say that Baron Hendriks used serf-like system. Glantri would be good suggestion for nation with serfs, I don't think there is anything there would be any problem with adding any serfs to Glantri, but let me hear what you think. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:58:23 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! At 11:14 11-02-98 -0300, you wrote: >>However, where do the slaves come from? AFAIK the Romans got so many slaves because they were almost constantly at war. The Thyatians seem to be more peaceful(This should change IMO) so they cant get as many prisoners of war. Criminals and the like could probably be sentenced to slavery as could barbarians captured on the Davanian coast. The latter probably being the largest source of slaves. >I don't know if you know Dark Sun (a world of AD&D). But in Dark Sun you have a city-state that have many slaves (Tyr). But there aren't many wars. So why there are so many slaves? >1. I think that to become a slave you don't have to do something against the rules. A noble can simply take you like a slave (like in the feudal age with de jewish). >2. There are mercants from other places that sell slaves. It's a good economic activity!. And you can buy reach a big number of them. 3. and some people are born as slaves. I don't think, that many are born as slaves, but it also a source. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:22:18 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] At 17:57 11-02-98 -0500, you wrote: >Here is one for you! Anyone remember the Faedorne?? Aren't they from Blade of Vengeance? An elven/faerie race living flaoting moon islands guarded by invisible silverwarriors. I would connect them to the rest of the faeries from PC1. As I view it, there are faeries all over the KW and at the same time they live in their special faerie land reachable only through certain places, but this faerie land is interconnedted, so by entering the faerielands in karameikos you might leave 'em in Glantri, if the faeries allow you and probably a few hundreds years later, though no time went by in the faerie lands. In each nation there are faeries however they are formed by the history and culture of that nation, so in no two nations are they identical. Each nation has its own faeries, but all the faeries are connected through their own lands. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:25:09 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Immortals At 16:22 11-02-98 -0700, you wrote: >Also- did you notice that Nob Nar is mentioned as one of the High Heroes from the time of heroes (in the BC era), yet in the song of Nob Nar, he is revealed to have lived only a few hundred years ago? Can you say oversight? Most likely an error. It is song and it doesn't need to have much truth in it, to a hin it probably contains all the elements that are necessary for a good song. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:41:51 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Immortals I might add that when the song was written it could have been true... At 11:25 AM 2/12/98 +0100, you wrote: >At 16:22 11-02-98 -0700, you wrote: >>Also- did you notice that Nob Nar is mentioned as one of the High Heroes from the time of heroes (in the BC era), yet in the song of Nob Nar, he is revealed to have lived only a few hundred years ago? Can you say oversight? >Most likely an error. It is song and it doesn't need to have much truth in it, to a hin it probably contains all the elements that are necessary for a good song. >Lille My >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:43:26 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing >P.S. Is there a cliff note version to all of the Mystera online materail?? :) I have recently re-subscribed to the Mystara Mailing list and I am quite impressed with the sheer quantity of mail and the quality of the threads being discussed! I need to know whether the best bits are being compiled by somebody somewhere. Basically I'm asking if there is a "non-canon" catalog of articles and material that the MML has produced. I popped around the WWW a bit, and see that there are some pages, but they each seem more personalized than complete. Is there a "master" Mystara web page? Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:27:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Morrow Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: Immortal Candidates On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Andrew Morrow wrote: <<> Travestis: (34TT/10D patron: Masawu, Entropy) The corrupted treant is aapproaching the end of his path to Immortality. His part in helping the Shadow Elves corrupt Canolbarth forest and corrupting the spell beyond their ability to reverse it, fulfilled his Testimony. He has only his Task to complete, the full scope of which is unknown, but which will include making sure that the Shadow and surface Elves do not make peace and promoting conflict throughout the area. Hmm, is the Masauwu sponsorship official? I think Atzanteotl would fit better, given his role in corrupting Canolbarth and his portfolio of corruption.>> More or less all of the information in my original post sprung my own head. None of it is canon by any stretch of the imagination. I mostly made Masauwu the patron of Travestis because I like the idea of him as a kind of recruiter for the Entropics and felt that he should be sponsoring someone. Atzanteotl would work as well, although I imagine that Travestis must have gained a sponsor long before Wrath began, so I wouldnt consider Atzanteotls involvement as a definitive reason to make him as Travestis patron. Masauwu is subordinate to Hel (she was his patron, see WotI) so I saw setting Travestis the Task of corrupting the forest as kind of an opportunist arrangement on the part of both Masauwu and the Brotherhood of the Shadow- they had the resources in place, so why not use them? <<> Prince Brannart McGregor: (M33, patron: Thanatos, Entropy) Brannart has >finally uncovered enough information to petition for an Immortal sponsor. >He is presently crafting his gift before traveling to the sight of petition- the temple of Thanatos on the Isle of Oceania. Wouldn't he rather try to attain Immortality using Radiance, like Etienne? That's what he is studying it for, after all.>> Gaz 3 says that Brannart has been close to the Radiance spell which would allow him to transcend to Immortality for some time, but he has ignored that option in the hopes of gaining Immortality in the Sphere of Entropy. Another idea for Doriath- Instead of planning a new Elven nation in the north, he could instead plan to become the power behind a new Shadow/surface elf nation in Canolbarth (using the power behind the throne Dynast option from WotI). This would fit with the Coalition ideas that have been floating around the list. My original idea sprang from a desire to have the three Immortal candidates involved in Canolbarth (Travestis, Doriath, and Starwatcher) be competing. With my original ideas it is pretty likely that only one would actually prevail, putting the other two out of the running for Immortality. It is very rare that candidates succeed, after all. However, if Doriath is working toward an Elven Coalition in Canolbarth, he an Starwatcher would be working towards compatible goals. - -III *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:33:25 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions >Ability Scores: do most folks make "fair" rolls as described in the rules (including 1-for-2 adjustments) or do you use a "cheater" method from AD&D? I'm just curious; I like ordinary characters, but a lot of them are *so* ordinary (or even pathetic) it is hard to choose a class. Sometimes I think that the high mortality rate among 1st level characters is designed to weed out those with low scores so you can try again for a better character... I use a variant of one of the AD&D cheats. All scores start at 8 and the players get a fixed (not rolled!) number of points to allocate. IIRC I used 24 last time. I do this because some of the adjustments to ability scores are so pervasive to the viable of the characters that in a long-running campaign (the only kind I start - intentionally :) ) I don't want to be exposed to the impact of bad roles. Typically the points are used to raise the prime requisite and Con to 16-18 and then used based on the player's individual perference. Charisma is usually shortchanged because I rely on role playing for NPC and creature reaction instead of reaction rolls and I use party NPCs rather than retainers. I prefer the slightly overbalanced (more points, say 32, would produce more overbalance) PCs produced by this method because I have found they are more surviveable in the typical combat encounter in published modules. I want PC deaths to occur (if at all) in the grand finale versus the evil spell-caster rather than in the prelims versus the pack of orc guards. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:46:29 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Morrow Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Hin Immortals I have combined two recent posts from Cthuludrew on this topic to respond to them together: <<(snip)... Nob Nar was an Epic Hero (I know that much), as was, I think Coberham Shadowglint. I believe I made Brindorhin a Paragon, as I postulated that (simply by virtue of the name) that he was the primary founder of the Five Shires. The Usamigaras/Coberham connection is an interesting one, and one I hadn't considered. Isn't Usamigaras a Paragon though? Also- did you notice that Nob Nar is mentioned as one of the High Heroes from the time of heroes (in the BC era), yet in the song of Nob Nar, he is revealed to have lived only a few hundred years ago? Can you say oversight?>> Yes, Usamigaras is an Immortal of Energy. I wanted to incorperate the Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:07:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #71 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 3ed553a55c971b2b6599b1b376dc78e8 only halfling Immortal in WotI into the Hin pantheon. I dont think it says anywhere that all of the Hin patrons are Immortals of Thought. I also figured that granting Hin Masters spell casting abilities probably came from an Immortal of Energy, as did the Blackflame. I did notice the Nob Nar contradiction. Maybe he attained Immortality in the BC era, but throughout Hin history there are stories of him reapearing when the Hin need a hero. Perhaps various Hin heroes down through the years have taken his name to pay homage to the predecessor. Or maybe he sends in a Mortal Identity based on his original form when he wants to interfere directly (which is not tecnically against the rules, but probably asking for trouble from the other Immortals). <<> Nob Nar >This is probably the first of the Hin to reach immortality. He probably did so long before the Hin came to the Five Shires. Not possible. He was alive during the days before Stephan Karameikos came to Traladara- the section in the Player's book on the Song of Nob Nar mentions that he lived a few hundred years ago.>> See above comments. <<(snip) I prefer to think of Brindorhin as the first of the Halfling Immortals, one who was inspired to lead them to the lands of the Five Shires, and was instrumental in founding that place.>> I agree with the idea of having Brindorhin as the oldest patron of the Halflings. However, I am inclined to want to give the job to an existing Immortal, rather than create a new one. I still think that Brindorhin may be another name for an old Immortal of Matter (Terra or Djea perhaps), or of Thought (Tyche maybe). If Brindorhin was an Immortal of Thought, then she would most likely have been Nob Nars patron. - -III *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:48:29 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker In a message dated 98-02-11 12:05:43 EST, you write: << >Halav is a piss poor example of an Immortal. *shakes head sadly* I do not envy a person who is so sad and bitter. I understand your pain and the reason you are angry with Immortals in general. I do not condone it, but I understand.>> Sad yes. Bitter definitely. Angry at Immortals, no. Just being realistic. But still, thanks for not condemming myself. For it is easy to judge someone without first having walked in their shoes. >His favored people lived in >squaller until the Thyatians conquered them. <> I shall not debate the plans of an Immortal. Instead I stress the actions of Man. Who better to decide their destiny? <> There is no dishonor in hunting and fishing. Nor a simple life. But what is life without ambition? What do you have to leave your children? As for the shiny armor remark. Only a fool would betray his position by donning so visual a form of protection. Surely such flash is meant for impressing others. Probably to lure some wench to gain her affections. Myself, I prefer chain. And as for interfering with those that do not wish it, isn't that what the Immortals do? >The only Traldar that >accomplished anything were the Milenians who abandoned their self appointed King and fled south. <> Funny, as I recall from lore the Traldar of King Milen fled instead of joining King Halav. But then again, Traldar lore has a habit of twisting things to make them more interesting. But what can be expected from a people that pass on their history by story. >I suggest the Traldar turn from their epic Halav and look toward a reasonable >future. A future under the guidance of a man, not some obsolete philosophy. <> And perhaps Karameikos's progress is due to the refugees. Without Alphatia, Karameikos would still of been a Duchy. It's study of magic would have remained with the peculiar mage's guild. King Stefan is a motivating factor. A reasonable man with an internal drive to better himself and his kingdom. <> And don't forget the Traldar scattered about Brun. <<--Murdoch, Priest of Halav>> You wouldn't happen to share the quirk that so many of your fellow clerics of Halav do? Being blinded by an unnatural hatred for humanoids. Which often results in hasty and irrational behavior. Knew one of your kind. Her hatred almost got us killed. Tis a sad day when a orc shows more rationale than a human. Allstrick still of Alpahtia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:58:24 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names In a message dated 98-02-11 14:49:34 EST, you write: >What about Green Bay? >I know the German word for green is and could probably find one for bay. But what about a term to describe the name GreenBay. Some term to make the base/colony more Heldannic and not necessarily a direct translation. <> My point exactly. Hmm.....could it be possible that the Khan and myself agree on something :-) <> What about Gruenbucht for the area: bay and surrounding lands. Gruenhafen for the fortress and town. Vanyas Ruh for the temple holding her remains. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:51:23 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More Danish words On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >Immortal Udødelig I find the word 'Udødelig' , which ofcourse is the same in Norwegian very clumsy in many ways. Have you thought about this? By the way, Moomin Valley rocks! Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:22:19 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, DJ Sahlas wrote: >>P.S. Is there a cliff note version to all of the Mystera online materail?? :) >I have recently re-subscribed to the Mystara Mailing list and I am quite impressed with the sheer quantity of mail and the quality of the threads being discussed! >I need to know whether the best bits are being compiled by somebody somewhere. Basically I'm asking if there is a "non-canon" catalog of articles and material that the MML has produced. >I popped around the WWW a bit, and see that there are some pages, but they each seem more personalized than complete. Is there a "master" Mystara web page? I think the most extensive pages are Marco "DM" Dalmonte's and Shawn Stanley's websites. Also I have found interesting stuff on the pages of Mystaros and Geoff Gander which I couldn't find elsewhere. I dont have the URLs here now, but all of these are accessible from my Mystara site at www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc/mystara.html Perhaps we should make some kind of structure of the websites? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:25:40 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: ><> >>By the way. Does anyone know where the Green, regenearting AD&D troll comes from? It has nothing to do with scandinavian fairy-tales/Mytholgy, and personally I think its a silly creature) >I think the AD&D troll is Gary Gygax's (remember him?) interpretation of the bridge troll of 3 goats fame. The name sounds familiar... Seriously though,I hear he's back with TSR/WotC working on the Greyhawk revival project. Doesn't this pose a threat to us? I mean this makes the chances of reviving Mystara fewer, doesn't it? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 03:05:29 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Hi! >The word you wanted was "doff", in that case, not "don". "Don", as a verb, means "to wear" or "to put on". "Doff" means "to remove", as in removing clothing or jewelry. >"Doff" is also somewhat archaic. Thanks alot! I really wanted this word! ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:34:18 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sulescu and Morphail? On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Glen Sprigg wrote: >>The boxed set doesn't say, but GAZ1 says, "Sulescu is the being for whom the village was named, 300 years ago." It doesn't say that's how old he is or how long he's been a vampire, but he's been around at least that time, which places him around 700 AC. So he could very well be involved with Morphail's origins. >Or vice versa... Have you people read "Lestat the Vampire" by Ann Rice? I just started wondering about Morphail wandering all alone in the world of mortals and suddenly encountering another one who was just like him,though would he be a friend of foe...? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:53:57 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >changes the perception of some of the critters, such as the elf, which changed considerably in Tolkiens Lord of the Rings, where as it earlier in Scandinavian mythology/folklore was much closer to the dryad creature adopted from Greek mythology. The Scandinavians did not get the Alfar from the Greeks. Please cite your source for this contention. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:56:52 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More Danish words On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >>Immortal Udødelig >I find the word 'Udødelig' , which ofcourse is the same in Norwegian very clumsy in many ways. Have you thought about this? English has the advantage of being the most bastard language in the world. Thus, we English-speakers can pick and choose from any other source on the planet that suits us. The Norwegian word has an exact equivalent in English: "undying". It is interesting to note that the Greek word translated as "immortal" in the Orthodox Liturgy is "athanatos", which is literally "undying". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:03:55 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Gary Gygax's (remember him?) interpretation of ttthe bridge troll of 3 goats fame. >The name sounds familiar... >Seriously though,I hear he's back with TSR/WotC working on the Greyhawk revival project. Doesn't this pose a threat to us? I mean this makes the chances of reviving Mystara fewer, doesn't it? There are some who hope so! I am undecided... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #71 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:25:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #72 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 2c982a5468533cdf8ce020d4ff59e77a mystara-digest Thursday, February 12 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 072 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics Re: [MYSTARA] - More Danish words Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - More Danish words Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - German names [MYSTARA] - Earthshaker! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:51:25 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Peter Balazs wrote: >>It seems so, that Germany and Austria are two lands separated by their language. >Not really. You could really compare the difference in language with Britain and the USA. Oscar Wilde: "England and America are two countries separated by the same language." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:16:02 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More Danish words At 10:56 AM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >>On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >>>Immortal Udødelig >>I find the word 'Udødelig' , which ofcourse is the same in Norwegian very clumsy in many ways. Have you thought about this? >English has the advantage of being the most bastard language in the world. Who you callin' a bastard?? Just kidding. Thus, we English-speakers can pick and choose from any other ssource on the planet that suits us. I don't know about "most bastardized". You may be right. Certainly all languages copy off each other though. And Old English is its own language. In some ways in fact, Old and Middle English make more sense than modern... The Norwegian word has an exact >equivalent in English: "undying". It is interesting to note that the Greek word translated as "immortal" in the Orthodox Liturgy is "athanatos", which is literally "undying". That is interesting. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:02:59 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >Figured I might add that both "wight" and "orc" are medieval terms for "man". Interesting huh? Yup. What connotations did these words have? Please elaborate if you know more :) Thanks, Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:01:19 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >It should be noted that all of the above words except for "spectre" are of Germanic linguistic origin, as are "wight", and "lich"--the Germanics were some pretty creepy guys around a campfire... What does the word Lich originally mean? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:10:52 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More Danish words >And a few words from the Danish (Scandinavian) mtyhology. Thor, Tyr, Odin, Freja, Frigg, Loke, Hel, Mimer, Balder. Ask Yggdrasil. Udgård, Midgård, Asgård >I just couldn't stay out of this, if there are any specific request, then let me know and I shall try to bring you the right translations. As far as Danish translations, I would be interested in hearing some appropriate sentences involving more Norse-like cultures such as the Northern Reaches, the tribal cultures of Norwold, and the Freemen of Heldann. Perhaps: 1) I have travelled far and seen many things in my trusty longship. 2) Quiet or I'll whack you with my axe! 3) How much for your pig? 4) Vegetarian?? You mean you are a turnip eater??? Ha! 5) Those vile Knights of Heldann must be stopped! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:17:08 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >At 17:57 11-02-98 -0500, you wrote: >>Here is one for you! Anyone remember the Faedorne?? >Aren't they from Blade of Vengeance? An elven/faerie race living flaoting moon islands guarded by invisible silverwarriors. >I would connect them to the rest of the faeries from PC1. Another theory is that they were once elves who for some reason were changed. I haven't got the module, I only read about them in the Creature Catalogue though. Does it say where the Shining Isles are located? Maybe they should be transported into the Hollow World? Around where the Gentle folk are perhaps..? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:13:24 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >At 13:32 11-02-98 EST, you wrote: >><< I don't know the origin of the words, so I can't explain why it is so, but III'll try look it up, but nobody thinks of a troldmand being in anyway related to a troll. >> >>Scandinavian trolls are completely different from D&D trolls. They're little earth spirits. >Isn't that kobolds or dwarves? But then again this is one big confusion. It is very difficult to translate the names of the creatures from folklore and local mythology and the problem doesn't always get better when litterature changes the perception of some of the critters, such as the elf, which changed considerably in Tolkiens Lord of the Rings, where as it earlier in Scandinavian mythology/folklore was much closer to the dryad creature adopted from Greek mythology. < nice example snipped> You are right. These terms have serveral meanings. Trolls could refer to small spirits or creatures, but I usually associate the word troll with the huge hulking humanoids from the fairitales. Sometimes growing so large there were trees growing on their noses ;) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:07:06 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 10:11 AM 2/12/98 +0100, you wrote: >At 13:32 11-02-98 EST, you wrote: >><< I don't know the origin of the words, so I can't explain why it is so, but >>I'll try look it up, but nobody thinks of a troldmand being in anyway related to a troll. >> >>Scandinavian trolls are completely different from D&D trolls. They're little earth spirits. >Isn't that kobolds or dwarves? But then again this is one big confusion. It is very difficult to translate the names of the creatures from folklore and local mythology and the problem doesn't always get better when litterature changes the perception of some of the critters, such as the elf, which changed considerably in Tolkiens Lord of the Rings, where as it earlier in Scandinavian mythology/folklore was much closer to the dryad creature adopted from Greek mythology. But the elf in Tolkien is very similar to the elf in Medieval Literature which is what he was basing it on! >For example is there no proper translation of goblin, gnome, kobold, hobgoblin, orc and ogre to Danish, but also the other way round with things such as Santa's Elves (I know this may sound stupid but try to hang on for a moment). In English they are elves, in Danish they are nisser which are commonly translated to pixies, but pixies are normally translated to feer (sing. fe) or alfer (sing. alf and is pretty close to the Danish word for elf: elver). However there are also "independent nisser", these are originally housrholdspirits like the brownie/leprechaun. But with time nisse changed, but stayed the householdhelper, but was now tied to Christmas (juleaften, for those of you wondering about the origin of "yule"), appearing at this time of year and wearing a red cap. The word nisse is a nickname for Niels and many peasents/farmers once wore a red cap. During the 19. century Christmas was developed and the nisse was designed. This is very interesting. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:46:35 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >What does the word Lich originally mean? Lich meant "corpse" in the 12th-13th centuries, which is why the gate through which funeral processions passed into the churchyard was known as the "lichgate". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:00:14 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Of course, it is always hard to tell what connotations a given obsolete word might have had. I have no idea for "orc". However "wight" simply meant man. I know that for Tolkien, the orc was supposed to represent the worst of mankind, while the "high men" represented the best. At 04:02 PM 2/12/98 +0100, you wrote: >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>Figured I might add that both "wight" and "orc" are medieval terms for "man". Interesting huh? >Yup. What connotations did these words have? Please elaborate if you know more :) >Thanks, >Håvard >*** >Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves >Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: >or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, >http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:16:03 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words At 04:02 PM 2/12/98 +0100, you wrote: >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>Figured I might add that both "wight" and "orc" are medieval terms for "man". Interesting huh? >Yup. What connotations did these words have? Please elaborate if you know more :) I checked the OED and it seems I was wrong. The name "orc" was applied to a sea monster...but earlier than that it was a term used for an ogre-like monster. Orc-giant, hell-devil...a devouring monster. Various spellings include orc, ork, orke, orque and orckte. That last was a verb meaning "to make a monster of". It may have come from the word..."Orcus". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:21:47 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words At 04:02 PM 2/12/98 +0100, you wrote: >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>Figured I might add that both "wight" and "orc" are medieval terms for "man". Interesting huh? >Yup. What connotations did these words have? Please elaborate if you know more :) I apparently goofed on wight also. I won't include the incredibly numerous spellings for this one. But its meanings include "thing, being, creature, and demon" Also, "a living being in general, a creature" It can be good or bad and it can apply to anything supernatural. Ooh, wait. Here is one that makes my earlier definition correct! "a human being, man or woman, person...often implying some contempt" All of the quotes come directly from the OED. Becareful though, cause it can also be and adj or adv in which case it means something totally different.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:23:00 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Candidates >Barimoor: (MU36, patron Rathanos, Energy) In 1000 AC this displaced Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:25:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #72 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 2c982a5468533cdf8ce020d4ff59e77a >Alphatian was well on his way to becoming an Immortal. A patient sort, he >figured that it would take another 200 years to complete his path. In 1007 AC he came a step closer to Immortality when he uncovered the Pearl >of Oblivion (a lesser artifact of Energy- see Gaz 2) in the Emirate of Nithia. However, in 1009 AC, during the Week Without Magic, disaster struck. Without his magic, and with the wards that kept his menagerie of >monsters at bay failing, there was nothing to stop him from being torn to >pieces by his own pets. The monsters, trapped in Barimoors cavern complex >under the Ylari desert, began praying on each other. The strongest and most clever began finding passages to the surface. This lead to a rash of >attacks by monsters that should not be found in the Ylari climate. OOne of Barimoors apprentices, an Alaysian mage now living in Selenica, heard of the attacks and deduced what must have happened. He is >planning to hire a group of adventurers to clear out the caverns. Of course, then they will have to die so that he can seize Barimoors secrets >before any of the other apprentices hear of Barimoors demise. AAs the adventurers explore Barimoors lair and discover the extent of the monster infestation, they will find evidence that their patron has >lied to them. The only way to stop the monsters before them and the murderous mage behind them may be to return Barimoor to life... I'm not sure I really like it if Barimmor is dead, but this is a great adventure hook however. Plus, that would explain why Barimoor was so quiet during and after WotI. >Doriath: (Elf 10/attack class I, patron: Ordana, Time) When Doriath was young he adventured extensively throughout the Sea of Dread. He encountered the Cult of Ordana in Minothrad and remained interested in the >ancient Immortal after he became King. Sometime before 1000 AC Ordana became his sponsor. Between 1000 and 1005 AC he searched sporadically for >the time travel device that he needed. His search had to be put off when >the conflict with the Shadow Elves began. Post Wrath Doriath does not believe that the elves will ever be able to return to Canolbarth and dreams of leading his people to build a new home in Norwold. He believes >that King Ericall will not begrudge him the land he needs if he provides >military support against the Heldannic Knights. He has some followers among the Alfheim refugees. As a King without a Kingdom, Doriath has more >time to search for the time travel device which he needs. Doriath will be featured in the 1015 net almanac. I fear what is intended for him does not fit well with your synopsis. >Kaladan, The Mastershaper: (M36/WTI21, patron Orcus, Entropy) Kaladan was >in his tower in the Kingdom of Blackheart when Alphatia sank. He doesnt >much care where he performs his experiments, so the move hasnt really upset his plans. Thanatos discovered this maniac many years ago and found >him intriguing, but probably not stable enough to complete the path to Immortality. However, he ordered Orcus, a former lycantherope himself, to >sponsor Kaladan. Kaladan has recently come to the attention of Ka, who doesnt want the HW infested with lycantheropes (presently only werejaguars >and sabertooths are native to the HW- see PC4). He is looking for a likely band of adventurers to put a stop to Kaladans activities. It sounds weird that Thanatos 'ordered' Orcus to sponsor Kaladan. Premise sounds good. >Leo Variantia (F34/T-Rake-18/M14/C13/WTI36/WFO13/WBA9/WBE10, patron: Maat, >Matter) Leo first encountered the cult of the Immortal Maat in the region >which is now the Emirate of Nithia in Ylarum. She eventually became his >sponsor. He quested for, and found, the Ivory Plume of Maat during each >on his incarnations. After finding it a final time he was forced to entrust it to a friend, a Huge Gold Dragon living in the Five Shires. to >keep it out of the clutches of clerics of Talitha which have been hounding >him for over a century. During Wrath he fought on the side of Thyatis on >the Isle of Dawn. At his latest meeting with Maat, having completed his >quest, Leo expected to be made an Immortal. But it was not fated to be (yet). Maat set him a final task, to free Sind from the rule of the Master of Hule. Leo is currently searching out his surviving adventuring >companions from his Quest and Task to help him with his efforts. Any idea how this can be linked to Gareth? To the Freedom Fighters? To Chandra? How about integrating that fellow into the events about Sind in the 1016 almanac? (Too late for this year's.) Considering what is happening in Sind with the freedom fighters etc, it seems he can easily be used. >Mylertendal: (MU36, patron Alphatia, Energy) Mylertendal was indeed killed >during the Week Without Magic. But after the sinking of Alphatia she was >raised by the Immortals like so many of her fellow citizens. She has plenty to do rebuilding Haven, and having just been commissioned to help >build the new Alphatian capital. She is still in no hurry to become Immortal. Fine. >Starwatcher: (E10/magic level 20, patron Ilsundal, Energy) Starwatcher gained the sponsorship of Ilsundal shortly after leaving Alfheim for Wendar with the rest of the Longrunner clan. When the Shadow Elves put out their call for help he traveled to Aengomar to help reverse the damage >to the forest. His Trial is to design a magic item capable of reversing >the damage to the forest. The components for this item will include Blackflame and water from the Pool of the Moon in the Sind desert (see X4). His Testimony will include recreating the forest, larger and more beautiful than it was before. Needless to say he is in for a long path. That's interesting. I'm sure Brizio can use these ideas in future almanac. I guess Starwatcher is featured in the 1015 almanac. >Travestis: (34TT/10D patron: Masawu, Entropy) The corrupted treant is approaching the end of his path to Immortality. His part in helping the >Shadow Elves corrupt Canolbarth forest and corrupting the spell beyond their ability to reverse it, fulfilled his Testimony. He has only his Task to complete, the full scope of which is unknown, but which will include making sure that the Shadow and surface Elves do not make peace and promoting conflict throughout the area. Very interesting. However I do agree with (?) that his patron should rather be Atzanteotl. >Tylion IV (Master Terari): (M36, patron Ssu-Ma, Thought) Tylion was accepted by his patron, Ssu-Ma in 1008 AC. His founding of the Karameikan >School of Magecraft is part of his Testimony. Even now he is searching for a worthy successor. However, the old mage is in no hurry. Sounds logical. Terari, of course, is featured in the 1015 almanac. >Prince Morphail Gorevitch- Woszlany: (M28, patron: Alphaks, Entropy) Following his defeat during Wrath, Alphaks needs a victory. One of his efforts to regain face among the Immortals is by sponsoring Morphail. Alphaks has been controlling Morphail, partially through the promise of eventual sponsorship for nearly 300 years. The Prince of Boldavia has begun his Quest for an Entropic artifact. That could prove interesting too. As a prince of Glantri, Morphail is certainly featured in the 1015 almanac. >Prince Brannart McGregor: (M33, patron: Thanatos, Entropy) Brannart has >finally uncovered enough information to petition for an Immortal sponsor. >He is presently crafting his gift before traveling to the sight of petition- the temple of Thanatos on the Isle of Oceania. Hmm, I really think he should be questing with the NoS, not in the regular way. Don't forget that the NoS is now an artifact of Entropy, so your argument that he's willing to become an Entropic and not an Energy Immortal does not hold anymore. Besides, I prefer to have good ole Brannart stay in his tower in Glantri where he can play politics and more, than have him venture out in Oceania. >There is a high level Halfling Master in Gaz 8, whose name has escaped me. >(patron: Nob Nar, Thought) She was a famous Halfling pirate before she became a Master. She spent most of Wrath Questing for the Diamond Orb of >Tyche. She spent several years post- Wrath aboard her new ship hunting Hulean sponsored pirates in the Sea of Dread. She was also involved in the Hin attack on Black Eagle Barony in 1011 AC. >One of the PWAs mentions a mysterious Polymath wandering through Azca (C32/ F8/T-Rake-9/FS8, patron: Atruaghin). Originally an cleric of Atruaghin from the Atruaghin Plateau, this unnamed candidate found his way >to the HW. He has been reborn as an Azcan warrior, an Oltec Rake, and a >Feathered Serpent. He is attempting to revive the cults of Ka and Ixion >and turn the balance of power back away from Atzanteotl. Papalotl is featured in the 1015 almanac. We did not exactly use him the way you present him. >Lambert Bohn (C34, patron Khronos, Time) Bohn was introduced in M2. He >might be the power behind the throne in one of the up and coming Isle of >Dawn nations, such as Helskir. Another option is that he may be one of the foreign advisers to Queen Yrsa the Wise of Ostland. He could be helping her guide her young nation into the eleventh century. If you mention Lambert Bohn, then you should also mention his nemesis, Coiger de Mory. Coiger de Mory will be featured in the 101*6* almanac. Speaking of Norwold, other would-be immortals will be featured in the 1016 almanac. >Gargantua (M36?) The mad wizard Gargantua may or may not actually exist. >No Immortal will admit to sponsoring him, but someone must be encouraging >him. During the Week Without Magic even more of his pets escaped (and you >thought they were turning in strange places already.) In other interesting news, in 1011 AC, on the Day of Dread, a small army and quite >a few gargantuan monsters landed on the Protectorate of Sclaras in Thyatis. The Week Without Magic had killed many of the wizards. The army >and monsters got several more. And then there were those who came out of >hiding after the Day of Dread and returned home, only to find Gargantuan >Gray Oozes hanging from the ceiling in their bed chambers... That's fun :) Okay, I have other immortal candidates in mind, that will be featured in the next almanacs, or not: Let's start with the most famous one, Etienne d'Ambreville. Rad will be featured in the next almanacs. Porphyriel will be featured in the next almancs. Eriadna may be questing for immortality too. She obviously will be featured in all the almanacs ;) Ramose is a likely candidate, though I don't think he questing yet. He's featured in the 1015 almanac. A good question is : What is Synn doing in Glantri, near the NoS that is now an entropic artifact? While we're on the subject of immortal candidates, what about a reflection about those dragons that are nearing guardianship? (Yes, I just read Bruce's article in Dragon #171, which is on TSR's site.) Although their quests are different and they do not need sponsors or even spheres, they are very similar to human candidates in many respects. You have a subtle refernce to one of them with the Ivory Plume of Maat, but I think they deserve the same attention that the others above. (BTW it's a shame that the Mighty Argos was a vaporware.) _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:59:48 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes << However, I agree that the stereotype of Dwarfs spending there entire lives making jewelry is something we need to move away from. >> Let's sponsor the Wyrwarfs. As you might know they mostly grow vegetables and are proud in doing that. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:38:50 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names << My point exactly. Hmm.....could it be possible that the Khan and myself agree on something :-) >> Oh no! Vade retro, satanas... :-) << What about Gruenbucht for the area: bay and surrounding lands. Gruenhafen for the fortress and town. Vanyas Ruh for the temple holding her remains. >> And again we agree! Where will this end? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:23:15 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Earthshaker! J. Daly wrote: <> Well, the same info concerning gnomes has been raised twice since i'm here on the list: the first time we ended up discussing the gnomish relics (the article is still available on my site in the Mystara Miscellanea section), and the second time it revolved about a possible connection between Earthshakers and meks waging a nearly endless war in a remote area of Davania (this article appears in my webpage too in the History section: look under the Mek Discussion entry). IMHO, there are gnome clans scattered around Mystara, and the ones so far known live in: Karameikos Aegos Serraine Hule (many gnomes here! -look at PWA) Davania Hollow World (Oostdok) Sometime ago i did a writeup on the nature of the elven relics and i announced my intention to also detail gnomish and other demihumans' relics. Up to now i lacked the time, but i think i might be able to finish it for the end of February (exams and almanac permitting). :) DM My Mystara Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #72 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:21:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #73 Reply-To: mystara@MPGN.COM X-UIDL: c577a7770c8abf002f369fea90bd02c6 Status: U mystara-digest Thursday, February 12 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 073 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Gaz [MYSTARA] - Heldannic sentences Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing [MYSTARA] - Norwold Civiil War Re: [MYSTARA] - Setting Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Norwold Civiil War Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldannic sentences Re: [MYSTARA] - Norwold Civiil War Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Cynidicean info ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:26:28 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension Chris Paul Billows wrote: <> Nope. Multiverse and the Nightmare Dimension are just two different dimensions, not two opposed dimensions. In the case they're brought into contact there will be spatial alterations where the two collides resulting in gates and wormholes that connect the two realities. I also think that given the influence of ND on multiverse inhabitants, the areas where the two dimensions collide will experience strange visual and psychic effects. Likely the people coming near or into these areas will experience strange visions or suffer from nightmares and various paranoid fits, probably resulting into madness or some forms of paranoia/schizophrenia due to prolongued exposure for not too strong minds. IMC an explosion can occurr only if two opposite dimensions are brought into contact: for example the Matter and Anti-matter dimensions (IMC all the normal dimensions have a mirror anti-matter dimension). Maybe also the Positive and Negative planes cause an explosion if they collide. BTW, what are exactly the Negative and Positive planes? Are they demiplanes or dimensions or what? I know they're AD&Dish, but they intrigue me.. :) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:26:57 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) Geoff Gander wrote: <> What? I normally don't care as i am not interested in the Forgotten Realms campaign, but what's this story of elves disappearing from Toril? And from the Middle Earth!? Where did u get those info Geoff? Anyway, remember that even if they disappear on some planets, the elves have still a much broader and powerful empire spread across the Crystal Spheres: the Elven Armada (and its HQ are in Evermeet..)! [insert heroic music from Yamato manga series -aka Starblazers] ;) "We're sailing 'cross the space Protecting Mother Earth We'll save the human race We are Starblazers!" [old memories come back.. i guess i'd go listening to one of my manga soundtracks now..] DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:22:46 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Gaz Alex Benson wrote: <> A strange and incredible thought has just flashed into my mind: what about a "Detailing Alphatia" competition? Each member of the mailing list writes his own mini-gazetteer after Daly's model detailing up to three countries of modern days Alphatia (flying continent of) and sends them to the list. Then maybe the editors of the Almanac could take the most interesting ones and use them as entries in one of the following almanacs. I think this is a fair proposal, but i must admit i haven't talked with the other fellow editors, so take this offer as unofficial for now, but send your entries anyway: it might help other listmembers flesh out their campaigns anyway! DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:22:07 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Heldannic sentences Somebody wanted to know some heldannic/german sentences to use during the play. Well, i have recently run an adventure with a mage who spoke with a strong Heldannic/Hattian accent (btw, i think Heldannic is more similar to Scandinavian tongues and Hattian to german, but i treat the two with similar german accent -mainly because i don't know Norwegian or Swedish or Danish). So while i will list here some common sentences for you, i advise u to rely much more on pronunciation and accents than on real terms: it's funnier and easier.. :) Note on pronunciation: when i put only a single letter, then u must pronounce it as u normally do when u spell it from the alphabet (ex: Die = D = Dee) Gruss Vanya und wilkommen in Heldann (pr: Grr-Uhss Vanya uhndt veel-kOHm-man in HEld-ahnn) (this is actually a linguistic joke. Thruout Germany many people normally say "Gruss Gott" meaning Hello, but the literal translation is "Hello to God", so i changed it to "Hello to Vanya") Keine Bewegung! Die Waffen niederlegen und das Gesicht auf den Boden stellen! (pr: KEYE-neh Beh-VEH-goong! D V-ough (like "t-ough")+n need-err-LEH-gh-n uhndt dus Gheh-sEEkt Ah-oof dehn Bo-dehn sht-L-lan!) Folgen Sie mir, bitte (pr: Fol-gh-n See meer, bit-teh) Achtung: Eindringlinge! (pr: Ah-ktoong: Ahin-drEEn-gleen-geh!) Pheew! Okay, that's what comes to the top of my head. Hope i haven't committed too many gramatical errors. Peter and Jamuga and any other german native speaker, feel free to bash me with a great club if i u think i have butchered your language. :=) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:26:49 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing You mean something like a 'Best of MML' page? I think that's a great idea. I think we should look into the idea. DJ Sahlas wrote: >I need to know whether the best bits are being compiled by somebody somewhere. Basically I'm asking if there is a "non-canon" catalog of articles and material that the MML has produced. >I popped around the WWW a bit, and see that there are some pages, but they each seem more personalized than complete. Is there a "master" Mystara web page? - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:22:06 PST From: "Martin Edwards" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Norwold Civiil War I hail the light of Rad. A new brother comes forth in his quest for knowledge. Hello, I am new to the Mystara newsgroup. I must say that I have been very impressed by the Mystara resources on the web that members of this group have put together. That applies doubly to the Net Almanac -congratulations to all those involved. I am currently struggling with the role that Norwold plays in Wrath of the Immortals. Norwold can provide access to overland routes into Glantri (via the Heldannic Territories or via Wendar). However in WotI, Eriadna doesn’t utilise these approaches at all, but rather decides in Summer of 1005 to forge a path through the Isle of Dawn and Thyatis. This suggests, IMO, that the civil war stirred up in Norwold by Eiryndul (ref. The Immortals’ Fury pp.11,28) is so severe or complex that it precludes the setting up of reliable supply lines across the Kingdom, and/or, would involve pulling so many troops from the defence of the Isle of Dawn and mainland that a Thyatian/Heldannic counter-attack could prove to be a significant threat. I am no military strategist but I see such a civil war in Norwold as being difficult for Eiryndul’s scheming to bring about. A civil war could be between minor nobles, or involve a revolt of minor nobles against King Ericall, or even a complete declaration of Norwold’s independence from the Empire. IMO the resources of Norwold would not present a sufficiently significant threat to Alphatia in these cases to prevent the Empire from swiftly resolving such a conflict (given sufficient motive as in Summer 1005). A peasant revolution against the Alphatian aristocracy could make things tricky for Alphatian armies in Norwold but might be hard for Eiryndul to bring about in the four years available. Similarly difficult is a war between factions of peasants on religious or racial grounds (Alphatian vs. Heldannic descent although PWA1 suggests that the populations feel no strong ties to their fatherlands). Guerrilla warfare by powerful minorities (e.g. the halflings of Leeha, frost giants of Stormhaven, elven Foresthomes) could give the Empress pause for thought, especially if the force responsible remains in the shadows. Maybe a combination of such raids against a background of classical civil war? Anyway, I would be very interested to hear others’ opinions and especially any WotI campaign experiences and/or plans. Apologies if you have discussed all this already. Martin Edwards ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:25:55 EST From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Setting This idea sounds alot like the Ravenloft campaign expansion "The Masque of the Red Death." The major difference being it is set on Earth instead of Mystara. Check it out if you can. It should save you a lot of work. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:36:02 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >Various spellings include orc, ork, orke, orque and orckte. That last was a verb meaning "to make a monster of". >It may have come from the word..."Orcus". Very doubtful. Orcus was the Greek god of Death, from whence we get the name "Orca" for a "killer whale". Yes, Hades ruled the underworld, but he wasn't death, itself. I think that any connection, if there is any, goes farther back than the Greek "Orkus". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:38:54 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, DM wrote: >Geoff Gander wrote: >< Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >DA3...:) DA3 has Sand People, which are a different creature than the Sis'thik (I made the same mistake at first). The Sis'thik are reptiloids, while the Sand People aren't even a carbon based lifeform. Their bodies are different, as well. The Sis'thik and Sand People, though, IIRC, ride the same types of beasts (Camarillas), so that means that the Camarillas on Davania and in Blackmoor are related species- probably an evolutionary branch of dinosaur. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:09:10 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Matthew Levy wrote: >1) the Kopru are not evolved from the Carnifex in a genetic sense. They were created by them from mollusk, reptilian, and human genes. The carnifex are reptiles, but the kopru are part mollusk. This was NOT a natural occurence. After doing my initial Underocean genealogy, I looked up the Kopru. They are described both in X1 (initial appearance) and in the Creature Catalogs as being Amphibians- not reptiles or mollusks. >2) the name of the Serpentine empire certainly implies a more snake like race than the carnifex, i believe the original suggestion was Yuan-Ti. can the original creator of this background please delineate exactly what races were present in the serpentine ranks? It was Mystaros, and he did have it being primarily Yuan-Ti. He isn't currently on the list, but he does an in-depth exploration of the Serpentine Empire in his treatise on Blackmoor- which is available both on his page or on Shawn Stanley's page. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:21:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #73 Reply-To: mystara@MPGN.COM X-UIDL: c577a7770c8abf002f369fea90bd02c6 Status: U "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:23:00 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Aleksei Andrievski pontificated: >Only 200th? We in Russia celebrated 1100 years some time ago. ;) Before you start to brag, remember there is a Chinese on this list :) First semi-mythical ruler at 27th cent. BC, first true dynasty at 22nd cent. BC. We like to just round up and say we have been around for 5000 years :). - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:27:32 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Yes, Orcus is the Greek/Roman god of death. The information I presented comes from the Oxford English Dictionary. Dispute it if you like...but I think I will stick with it! It mentioned Orcus as a possible origin and it also mentioned the very same info regarding "orca". I did not refer to this in my earlier message because it does not really have to do with the word "orc". Both however may have come from Orcus. At 04:36 PM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>Various spellings include orc, ork, orke, orque and orckte. That last was a verb meaning "to make a monster of". >>It may have come from the word..."Orcus". >Very doubtful. Orcus was the Greek god of Death, from whence we get the name "Orca" for a "killer whale". Yes, Hades ruled the underworld, but he wasn't death, itself. I think that any connection, if there is any, goes farther back than the Greek "Orkus". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:30:41 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Norwold Civiil War At 01:22 PM 2/12/98 PST, you wrote: >I hail the light of Rad. A new brother comes forth in his quest for knowledge. >Hello, I am new to the Mystara newsgroup. I must say that I have been very impressed by the Mystara resources on the web that members of this group have put together. That applies doubly to the Net Almanac -congratulations to all those involved. >I am currently struggling with the role that Norwold plays in Wrath of the Immortals. Norwold can provide access to overland routes into Glantri (via the Heldannic Territories or via Wendar). However in WotI, Eriadna doesn't utilise these approaches at all, but rather decides in Summer of 1005 to forge a path through the Isle of Dawn and Thyatis. Your ideas are well thought out. But I will point out to you two reasons for Eriadna not to use the overland route through Norwold. 1) A huge amount of untamed wilderness to forge through. 2) Heldann *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:39:17 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors At 03:09 PM 2/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Matthew Levy wrote: >>1) the Kopru are not evolved from the Carnifex in a genetic sense. They were created by them from mollusk, reptilian, and human genes. The carnifex are reptiles, but the kopru are part mollusk. This was NOT a natural occurence. >After doing my initial Underocean genealogy, I looked up the Kopru. They are described both in X1 (initial appearance) and in the Creature Catalogs as being Amphibians- not reptiles or mollusks. You are right. Especially considering that in that module they never once are found in the water. The characters encounter them in an underground cavern with lots of hot mud pools. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:44:57 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Geez, you're right. I'm embarassed. I take back my smug comment...but they appeared in something didn't they?...I mean something other than the CC... At 03:06 PM 2/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>DA3...:) >DA3 has Sand People, which are a different creature than the Sis'thik (I made the same mistake at first). The Sis'thik are reptiloids, while the Sand People aren't even a carbon based lifeform. Their bodies are different, as well. >The Sis'thik and Sand People, though, IIRC, ride the same types of beasts (Camarillas), so that means that the Camarillas on Davania and in Blackmoor are related species- probably an evolutionary branch of dinosaur. >------------------------ >Cthuludrew, the Great Old One >(aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." >URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:48:12 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Actually I thought I might mention you guys...but I did not. At 05:23 PM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >Aleksei Andrievski pontificated: >>Only 200th? We in Russia celebrated 1100 years some time ago. ;) >Before you start to brag, remember there is a Chinese on this list :) First semi-mythical ruler at 27th cent. BC, first true dynasty at 22nd cent. BC. We like to just round up and say we have been around for 5000 years :). >-- >John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | >UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." >(804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:50:26 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >Geez, you're right. I'm embarassed. I take back my smug comment...but they appeared in something didn't they?...I mean something other than the CC... I've never seen them in anything else. But don't worry about the mistake. Like I said, I made the same mistake at first, until I really looked at the description of Sand People. The Camarilla connection can really throw you! :) >At 03:06 PM 2/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >>DA3 has Sand People, which are a different creature than the Sis'thik (I made the same mistake at first). The Sis'thik are reptiloids, while the Sand People aren't even a carbon based lifeform. Their bodies are different, as well. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 00:26:43 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldannic sentences Hi! >Pheew! Okay, that's what comes to the top of my head. Hope i haven't committed too many gramatical errors. Peter and Jamuga and any other german native speaker, feel free to bash me with a great club if i u think i have butchered your language. :=) *SMACK* You didn´t "butcher the language", but who can resist such an invitation? > Keine Bewegung! Die Waffen niederlegen und das Gesicht auf den Boden stellen! "Stellen" means "to stand something somewhere", so it seems you are quite rude with your prisoners! ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:05:40 -0800 From: David Keyser Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Norwold Civiil War >I am currently struggling with the role that Norwold plays in Wrath of the Immortals. Norwold can provide access to overland routes into Glantri (via the Heldannic Territories or via Wendar). However in WotI, Eriadna doesn't utilise these approaches at all, but rather decides in Summer of 1005 to forge a path through the Isle of Dawn and Thyatis. I plan on running a modified CM1/M2 module series for those years, with both empires sending a few troops as a feint. Another reason was brought up on this list before, and stems from the Dragonlord series of books. Alphatia knows better than anyone else how powerful the dragons in Wyrmsteeth really are. Dave Keyser *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:10:57 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors What I was thinking of when I mentioned the portable boilers in which the Kopru were carried was a means by which they were carried from their hot pools and caverns to meet with Carnifex officials - they didn't spend all their time in them. I also found the mental imagery interesting - this mollusk/amphibian-type beast brooding in a black metal vat, in which bizarre gems glow, while it barks out commands to the Troglodyte porters carrying it. Still, it just seemed to me that Kopru could be a creation of the Carnifex of Y'hog - sort of like Frankenstein's monster, but in this case what they create is SMARTER than they are. Anyhow, this was just an idea. >BTW, i think the second generation carnifex (Geoff's Y'hog carnifex) and Mystaros' serpentines ruling the Serpentine Empire can be considered the same folk. They were both evil "lizardkin", came after the Carnifex Tyranny, spread their dominion over Davania and created servitor races. Call them as u want, but they're the same. :) I thought of Mystaros' Carnifex as more snake-like, myself. True, they are both evil lizardkin, as you say, but how I envision Y'hog Carnifex and how I picture Serpentine Carnifex are quite different. Both are inferior to the "true" Carnifex of old, but Y'hog Carnifex are far more decadent in character, IMO. If you have read Brian Lumley's/HPL's lore about the lizard men of Valusia, that's what I thought of when I created them. They're quite repulsive to look at (see my description in the article), and they have a distinct character which says, "Why should I do the work? What are slaves for, anyway?" This is one reason why they ultimately collapsed. Even if Y'hegg-T'uhath had not sunk into the sea, their empire would have collapsed within 1,000 years anyway. More than likely it would have been a civil war in the end (factionalism was not unknown to the Y'hog Carnifex, either). Of course, when it comes to decadence and sloth, no one tops the Deep Carnifex - the descendants of those Y'hog Carnifex who migrated underground, where they built great citadels beneath the Adakkian Mounts. I posted some info to Matt and Andrew concerning their stats and some cultural info - if anyone's interested, drop me a line and I'll send them to you. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:07:43 -0600 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Responding to the message of Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:00:14 -0500 from Daly : >Of course, it is always hard to tell what connotations a given obsolete word might have had. I have no idea for "orc". >However "wight" simply meant man. >I know that for Tolkien, the orc was supposed to represent the worst of mankind, while the "high men" represented the best. Actually... If I recall corectly... in Tolkien.. orcs where a corrupted form of the elves created by... um... someone... and the trolls where corrupted forms of the treants. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:57:13 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Cynidicean info This is an interesting idea, but what I'd like to see instead would be a culture like that of the Cynidiceans come back from the brink and begin a slow climb back to some degree of stability. Still, your idea has possibilities. :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #73 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:16:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #74 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 89f20a100ffd69a9b5f97f55875f1b21 mystara-digest Friday, February 13 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 074 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words [none] Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension [MYSTARA] - Positive and Negative Planes Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions [MYSTARA] - Re: Bettellyn, Eadrin, Foresthome, and Frisland Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:19:55 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) >What? I normally don't care as i am not interested in the Forgotten Realms campaign, but what's this story of elves disappearing from Toril? And from the Middle Earth!? Where did u get those info Geoff? I used to have the FA boxed set (but I sold it - needed money for useful pursuits like Mystara :-) - no offense intended to FA fans!) IIRC, the DM's guide said that the elves in Faerun were slowly but surely leaving it for Evermeet, which was a purely elven land. It even mentioned spells that the elves used to conceal their departure, so no non-elves could follow them. The end of the Lord of the Rings (LotR) has most of the Fellowship of the Ring leave for Valinor, where the elves live in eternal happiness. Many prominent elves, like Cirdan, also left with them. The full story can only be known if you read the Silmarillion as well - where, in the creation epic, JRR Tolkien writes how the Valar (the gods) decides that elves will have the gift of eternal life, and when they tire of everyday existence they can sail over the western sea to the land of Valinor, where they will live among the Valar forever in peace. Men, on the other hand, are "blessed" with the gift of death, and they may leave Middle Earth entirely, going on to bigger and better realms than even the Valar can conceive of - so said Iluvatar, the supreme god. This isn't the full tale, because the Halls of Mandos (judgement day) are also a factor, but this is the idea in a nutshell. What I am saying is that too many games have the elves as either a dying or a declining race. I liked Mystara above all the others because this is not so. Elves may not be common, but they are a potent force, one that will remain as a source of wonder and mystery. Yes, elves are my favourite race, too. :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:23:36 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words >Actually... If I recall corectly... in Tolkien.. orcs where a corrupted form of the elves created by... um... someone... and the trolls where corrupted forms of the treants. Yes, orcs were corrupted elves, thanks to the work of Melkor, otherwise known by the elves as Morgoth, Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:22:33 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors The Camarilla connection can really throw Funny, I thought the Sis'thek rode Xytars - says so in the Creature Catalogue, IIRC. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:22:09 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words On 11 Feb 1998 11:14:10 -0300 3@giga.com.ar writes: IIf there are so many languages I'd to add two: Spanish and Hebrew. >Names in Hebrew: >Shalom I'm not so sure anyone would name their kid Hello, Goodbye, or Peace. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:45:57 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words At 08:22 PM 2/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >On 11 Feb 1998 11:14:10 -0300 3@giga.com.ar writes: IIIf there are so many languages I'd to add two: Spanish and Hebrew. >>Names in Hebrew: >>Shalom >I'm not so sure anyone would name their kid Hello, Goodbye, or Peace. I don't know about that! I could certainly picture it here in America! :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:20:57 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:46:10 -0700 (MST) "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" writes: >On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Aaron E Nowack wrote: >>Nope. PC3 came after the Gazzeteer series was finished, and the sea peoples wern't mentioned again by any canon source :( However one of mmy >>long range projects is to get together a PWA-style writeup of the SSunlit >>Sea area. (right after the rest of the timeline and perhaps War MMachine >>statistics for the armies of Undersea). >I did quite a bit of that this weekend- for AC 1000 Undersea, anyway. I'll send it to you if you'd like to see what I've got so far. I'd love to see what you have. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:20:02 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:09:33 PST "clayton cook" writes: >><< But if an immortal decided he had to sacrifice his iiimmortality as a desperate move for the greater good oof...whatever--then I >>think it would be a cool storyline. >> >>I agree. Also, since the Immortal must be at the top of her sphere, tthis would >>be an unimagineable event. Imagine if all of a sudden, Ixion or KKhronus, were >>just gone. It would definately make a good story. >This reminds me of a story once, where the "gods" vanish and all the immortals of all the gods started to disappear. I think it was "The Rose >of the Prophet". >It is not quite the same but simmilar. Its by Margret Weis and Tracy Hickman (authors of the Dragonlance Chronicles and Legends series). Will of the Wanderer is the first book, The Prophet of Ahkran is the third, and I can't remember the second. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:06:59 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] In a message dated 98-02-12 11:45:38 EST, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >Another theory is that they were once elves who for some reason were cchanged. I haven't got the module, I only read about them in the Creature Catalogue though. Does it say where the Shining Isles are located? Maybe they should be transported into the Hollow World? Around where the Gentle folk are perhaps..? The faedorne are quite special -- there might be no more than one per clan, as near as I can tell. The Shining Isles are located in the sky -- in the adventure where one appears, the elf hero uses a flying boat to reach her. Since a faedorne appears to be some sort of spiritual guardian of an elf clan, they are not an endangered species -- and transporting them to the Hollow World would make no sense at all. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 02:16:34 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:05:26 -0500 (EST), you wrote: >On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Chris Paul Billows wrote: >>How long do you think it would take for a mortal to attain immortality and then full hiearch in years? >I've never even heard of it happening in any honest campaign. So let us make a guesstimate. How many years of game time does it take to get to name (9) level? How many to level 25? etc... __________________________________ | |\ | Chris Billows | | | Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | | www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | |_________________________________| | \_________________________________\| *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:41:37 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones I used to give one year per level. Now it is much shorter. At 02:16 AM 2/13/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:05:26 -0500 (EST), you wrote: >>On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Chris Paul Billows wrote: >>>How long do you think it would take for a mortal to attain immortality and then >>>full hiearch in years? >>I've never even heard of it happening in any honest campaign. >So let us make a guesstimate. How many years of game time does it take to get to >name (9) level? How many to level 25? etc... >__________________________________ >| |\ >| Chris Billows | | >| Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | >| www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | >|_________________________________| | >\_________________________________\| >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:40:51 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words >>I'm not so sure anyone would name their kid Hello, Goodbye, or Peace. >I don't know about that! I could certainly picture it here in America! :) I went to college with a woman named "Baby". She was from India, and her father just liked the sound of the English word. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:29:48 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) >What I am saying is that too many games have the elves as either a dying or a declining race. I liked Mystara above all the others because this is not so. Elves may not be common, but they are a potent force, one that will remain as a source of wonder and mystery. Yes, elves are my favourite race, too. :-) I agree 100%!!! In fact, I usually point to Mystarian elves (Could Mystara be the long lost Elven home world?) as the way REAL elves would react to human and humanoid incursions into their lands. These elves fight for their way of life. They don't back down. Which is why only on Mystara would they lose their forest home (and not even their only one) but still plot to regain it alienating allies in doing so. Torilian elves should be taking notes on the correct way elves should conduct themselves. BTW, I'm kinda keen on elves too ;) - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 1998 23:56:56 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months I know the name of the month (in D&D) but the seasons not. Do anybody can help me? What about the name of the days? Do the years have 356 days? The weeks have 7 days? the days have 24 hours? I know it's sound a little strange but there are good questions. Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 1998 23:56:54 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words >On 11 Feb 1998 11:14:10 -0300 3@giga.com.ar writes: IIIf there are so many languages I'd to add two: Spanish and Hebrew. >>Names in Hebrew: Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:16:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #74 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 89f20a100ffd69a9b5f97f55875f1b21 >>Shalom >I'm not so sure anyone would name their kid Hello, Goodbye, or Peace. Why? I think there are very originals. The names need to have a meaning. Don't you think so? By the way, you see the names as simple words, but Shalom can be "the peace bringer" or something very ironic like "Hello" and "Goodbye" at the same time. I think it's very creative. Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:01:04 -0500 From: Daly Subject: [none] With the mention by listmembers of info contained in the DotE on Citadel and the nation of Bettelyn, I am starting to suspect there is something defective with my copy if that boxed set. Am I right that there is no canonical description of the Kingdom of Bettellyn, the Kingdom of Eadrin, the Kingdom of Foresthome, and the Kingdom of Frisland? If there is could I trouble you for source and page numbers? Thanks deeply! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:54:08 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions << I have found that most people are dissatisfied with their characters when they start at a higher level than 1st. >> yup. The reason i like to start characters out at first is because, thier is a big difference in the roleplaying by the time they get to a level such as 10th. One can say if he ever fought a certain creature or not... and can reflect on past experiences to aid him. If you start one at tenth then you have no idea as to how they got there. A typical 10th level charecter should have done at least one or two major things that others would probably know about. So, obviously i think the difference is the depth of your charecter. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:04:01 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension << Nope. Multiverse and the Nightmare Dimension are just two different dimensions, not two opposed dimensions. >> Are you sure about that??? There was a time when Ravenloft (demiplane spawned in the Etheral Plane) was going to merge with the Prime Plane (most likely Greyhawk's...but not sure). This would end all the cursed inhabitants blah blah blah... but the Prime Plane and Demi-plane of Dread aren't opposed, so i'm not sure if what you said was correct. Prehaps there is a way to merge the Nightmare Dimension with Mystara, but it wouldn't be too easy of a task I'd imagine. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:15:51 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Positive and Negative Planes << Maybe also the Positive and Negative planes cause an explosion if they collide. BTW, what are exactly the Negative and Positive planes? Are they demiplanes or dimensions or what? I know they're AD&Dish, but they intrigue me.. :) Okay....easiest way to explain this is....in the Etheral Plane thier is access to the Elemental Planes (and all the para/quasi elemental planes), Demi- planes, and also the Negitive and Positive planes. It's easiest to picture them as the two poles. It is barely hospitable there though....In the negative plane, charecters lose 2d6 hp a round. If they die here, they decay and turn to ash. In the positive plane, charecter's gain 2d6 hp every round they stay in there, but there is a catch here. You can temporarily exceed your max allow for hp, but if you gain up to twice your max hp, you explode into showers of energy. Xorn, is a creature that's native to the negative plane, but other than that....not too many creatures have been published from the neg. and pos. plane. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 04:15:39 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:50:40 EST, you wrote: >Levels: one cool thing about D&D is you can advance to 36th level and have truly heroic adventures, and there are some amazingly tough monsters too. Do most campaigns start at first level and progress up to 20+? Or do most campaigns stay low powered, or start with high-level characters? >> >All of my campaigns have begun at first level. I have run several through the years, and of the ones I have run only two reached truly high levels, and only a single character has accomplished the staggering task of Immortality. One of these campaigns lasted about a year and a half, and the other about three years, with regular (weekly or more often) playing. So how long in game years did it take for that one PC to become an Immortal? >I think the long time put into the characters and their "growing up" from first level is what makes them memorable. Skipping past that period of developing the characters often robs the players of some of the game's more memorable moments. Just my opinion. I agree. I am playing in two PBeM campaigns... I am thoroughly enjoying both but my appeal is for the one where I have started as first level. The other is where I play a seventh level mage... I inherited this character which adds to the foriegn element, but I do not possess as much fondness just because there is no history. >-Mage >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:36:55 -0500 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Bettellyn, Eadrin, Foresthome, and Frisland Daly wrote: >With the mention by listmembers of info contained in the DotE on Citadel and the nation of Bettelyn, I am starting to suspect there is something defective with my copy if that boxed set. >Am I right that there is no canonical description of the Kingdom of Bettellyn, the Kingdom of Eadrin, the Kingdom of Foresthome, and the Kingdom of Frisland? >If there is could I trouble you for source and page numbers? >Thanks deeply! The best source of information on these kingdoms is the first Poor Wizard's Almanac. The page numbers are as follows: Bettellyn 21 Eadrin 28 Foresthome 33 Frisland 34 The other two PWAs also have short descriptions of these places under the heading for "Alphatia". Michael. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:15:22 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >After doing my initial Underocean genealogy, I looked up the Kopru. They are described both in X1 (initial appearance) and in the Creature Catalogs as being Amphibians- not reptiles or mollusks. I think the confusion stems from the ambiguity of the word amphibian. This word can mean specifically a vertebrate halfway between a fish and a reptile which breathes water in its youth and air in its adulthood, or it can simply mean a creature that lives partially on land and partially in the water. I think the monster description must have meant the latter, since there are NO obvious features of the Kopru which resemble frogs, newts, salamanders, or toads in the slightest. The mollusk hypothesis seems like an obvious extension of the fact that the suckers have tentacles; by the way mollusks are indeed an amphibian sort of invertebrate, since they can exist out of water or in it (snails for instance). Certainly the kopru have other features (like arms and, presumably, skeletal structure) which are vertebrate, but this is simply a sign of the unwholesome tampering by the carnifex with the Natural Order of Things. >>2) the name of the Serpentine empire certainly implies a more snake like race than the carnifex, i believe the original suggestion was Yuan-Ti. can the original creator of this background please delineate exactly what races were present in the serpentine ranks? >It was Mystaros, and he did have it being primarily Yuan-Ti. He isn't currently on the list, but he does an in-depth exploration of the Serpentine Empire in his treatise on Blackmoor- which is available both on his page or on Shawn Stanley's page. Thanks, since I wrote this I found it myself, but there are some pieces missing (it's mostly history not monster write ups). What ever happened to Mystaros? He contributed some really detailed and impressive stuff, I've been reading through it and it's truly massive. Don't tell me he's given up the game? m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:35:12 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Seriously though,I hear he's back with TSR/WotC working on the Greyhawk revival project. Doesn't this pose a threat to us? I mean this makes the chances of reviving Mystara fewer, doesn't it? Hey, who needs TSR/WotC to revive Mystara. It seems we are doing a good enough job as it is. TSR would just screw things up... ;) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:51:59 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Hi folks, well, being a German THIS is a topic I call mine. ><< Thank you very much, my friend. Now tell me...would "Ritterburg" be ttranslated as Knighttown? >Not quite right. The exact translation would be Knight's Castle. Totally right. But it is "Knight Castle" for Knight´s Castle would suggest that it is in the posession of the knight: it would be "Rittersburg". >Some more monsters: >Gargoyle - Gargyle Because of the places where Gargoyles are put they can also be called "Wasserspeier" but this means that they are seem as an element of the architecture of the building/fountain. >Blackball - Schwarzball I think this would be a "word by word"-translation. Perhaps "Blob" seems to fit. >Places: >Grauenberg - Greymountain Don´t agree. Greymountain would be "Grauberg". And you could translate "Grauen" as horror so it could also be Horror-Mountain. >Altendorf - Oldvillage The same as above. Oldvillage is "Altdorf". But "Altendorf" could be in the meaning of "Old people Village". --> The Old Ones = Die Alten (-->Ehrwuerdigen) I know this is not really a problem but to be "really" correct this is the fine difference in german tongue. Hope I could help, Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:11:53 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, HŒvard R¿nne Faanes wrote: >>Seriously though,I hear he's back with TSR/WotC working on the Greyhawk revival project. Doesn't this pose a threat to us? I mean this makes the chances of reviving Mystara fewer, doesn't it? >Hey, who needs TSR/WotC to revive Mystara. It seems we are doing a good enough job as it is. TSR would just screw things up... ;) I agree. However, our main problem is recruiting more people. This list could die prematurely if we dont ressurect our world.. HŒvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:14:34 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >The Sis'thik and Sand People, though, IIRC, ride the same types of beasts (Camarillas), so that means that the Camarillas on Davania and in Blackmoor are related species- probably an evolutionary branch of dinosaur. "Actions have consequences." Do you have some stats for these Camarillas? HŒvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #74 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:24:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #75 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 0fdc9c92697f1eedd5b54c021b52863f mystara-digest Friday, February 13 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 075 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Candidates [MYSTARA] - Re: Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - German names [MYSTARA] - No related Topic Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Gaz [MYSTARA] - Some Finish words too? Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - More Danish words Re: [MYSTARA] - More Danish words Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - No related Topic Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Bettellyn, Eadrin, Foresthome, and Frisland Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors [MYSTARA] - Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - No related Topic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:35:11 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Candidates In a message dated 98-02-12 03:54:55 EST, you write: << > Prince Brannart McGregor: (M33, patron: Thanatos, Entropy) Brannart has ffinally uncovered enough information to petition for an Immortal sponsor. He is presently crafting his gift before traveling to the sight of petition- the temple of Thanatos on the Isle of Oceania. Wouldn't he rather try to attain Immortality using Radiance, like Etienne? That's what he is studying it for, after all. >> I have to agree with Aleksei on this. Going by G:KoM (I know I know but I don't have Glantri Gaz) Brannart is one step away from using the Radiance to attain Immortality. Transcend Life Force. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:42:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Morrow Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Immortal Candidates <<(snip) It sounds weird that Thanatos 'ordered' Orcus to sponsor Kaladan. Premise sounds good.>> Im speaking in short hand again. Obviously the whole affair would be a little more complicated than Big- T just calling Orcus into his office and saying, This mission, should you choose to accept it...) << (snip) Maat set him a final task, to free Sind from the rule of the MMaster of Hule. Leo is currently searching out his surviving adventuring >companions from his Quest and Task to help him with his efforts. Any idea how this can be linked to Gareth? To the Freedom Fighters? To Chandra? How about integrating that fellow into the events about Sind in the 1016 almanac? (Too late for this year's.) Considering what is happening in Sind with the freedom fighters etc, it seems he can easily be used.>> Perhaps put a cleric of Maat (her Sindi incarnation) among the Freedom Fighters. Leo could get in touch with him or her through Maats cult in the area. Or the cleric could even be an old associate of Leos. Actually, there doesnt even have to be a connection. The Freedom Fighters are very likely looking for recruits. The first time Leo meets (and dismantles) a Hulean patrol, the FFs will come to him. In any event, once we come up with a connection to the FFs, the connections to Garetha and Chandra more or less form themselves. Having Leo involved in the resistance movement will increase their chances of liberating Sind substantialy. <<>Travestis: (34TT/10D patron: Masawu, Entropy) The corrupted treant is aapproaching the end of his path to Immortality. His part in helping the >Shadow Elves corrupt Canolbarth forest and corrupting the spell beyond their ability to reverse it, fulfilled his Testimony. He has only his Task to complete, the full scope of which is unknown, but which will include making sure that the Shadow and surface Elves do not make peace and promoting conflict throughout the area. Very interesting. However I do agree with (?) that his patron should rather be Atzanteotl.>> Yah, you guys are probably right, the Atzanteotl idea is far less convoluted. But I like Masawu (whine!). The one question that needs answering is how Travestis would have ever heard of Atzanteotl. Travestis has to potition Atzanteotl specifically. Atzanteotls only real presence in the Known World pre- Wrath was the Tiger Clan. Oh, and the temple full of Orcs in Oenkemar. <<>Prince Brannart McGregor: (M33, patron: Thanatos, Entropy) Brannart has >finally uncovered enough information to petition for an Immortal sponsor. >He is presently crafting his gift before traveling to the sight of petition- the temple of Thanatos on the Isle of Oceania. Hmm, I really think he should be questing with the NoS, not in the regular way. Don't forget that the NoS is now an artifact of Entropy, so your argument that he's willing to become an Entropic and not an Energy Immortal does not hold anymore. Besides, I prefer to have good ole Brannart stay in his tower in Glantri where he can play politics and more, than have him venture out in Oceania.>> I hadnt considered that possible ramification of the conversion of the NoS. Personally, Im rather sceptical about the whole thing. That particular part of the end of WotI seemed a little silly to me. It very conveniently lets Rad off the hook and defeats the Brotherhood of the Shadow in one fell swoop. Its just all a little too easy. However, if you do accept the conversion of the NoS to an Entropic power source than it seems reasonable that the Nucleus will now allow transcendence to Immortality in the Sphere of Entropy, instead of Energy. <> Ill be interested to see what the almanac team came up with. I was never really satisfied about what to do with him. <<...Porphyriel will be featured in the next almancs. Eriadna may be questing for immortality too. She obviously will be featured in all the almanacs ;) Ramose is a likely candidate, though I don't think he questing yet. He's featured in the 1015 almanac. A good question is : What is Synn doing in Glantri, near the NoS that is now an entropic artifact?>> Neither Porphyriel or Ramose are yet high enough level to be candidates. (I think Gaz 13 says that Porphyriel has to become 36th level as both a wizard and a shaman before she can cast the Immortal transcendence spell. I did the math for it once. Theres no way the poor dear could live long enough to get that many xps.) I think that G:KoM says that Synn isnt aware of the NoS yet. Apparently her Immortal patron isnt talking. (I wonder why...) As for Eridna, shell have to find someone she trusts to run things in Alphatia while shes gone first. Good luck. <> I wasnt very inspired by the article about dragon guardianship. The reference to the Huge Gold Dragon with the Ivory Plume comes from an article from around the same time about the greatest Dragons of the Known World and their kingdoms. Although I liked the characters, Im not big on the whole Dragon kingdoms thing. It makes Dragon society far to organised and regimented for my tastes. - -III *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:49:33 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words In a message dated 98-02-12 11:40:11 EST, you write: << > Figured I might add that both "wight" and "orc" are medieval terms for ""man". Interesting huh? >> Hmm.....Now who coined the terms for the humanoids? What about elves? Given their veiw of humans it would be appropriate. In the olden days a human could have been seen by them as a type of beastman. As humans matured, the less than admirable perception could have diminished somewhat. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:44:59 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Some suggestions: >From: Alex295@aol.com >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names ><> >What about Gruenbucht for the area: bay and surrounding lands. Gruenhafen for the fortress and town. Vanyas Ruh for the temple holding her remains. What about a wider translation into "Gruenmeer" (Green ocean) or "Waldmeer" (Ocean wood). Sorry, just an idea. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:45:01 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: [MYSTARA] - No related Topic Hi folks, I know it is not the place for non-topic-related discussions but I thought it necessary to give you this warning-mail I received lately. Furthermore that our mailing-list was partially bombarded with junk-mails. - --> Extract of an IBM-warning: If you receive an email titled "JOIN THE CREW" DO NOT open it. It will erase everything on your hard drive. Forward this letter out to as many people as you can. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know about it. This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM; please share it with everyone that might access the internet. Once again, pass this along to EVERYONE in your address book so that this may be stopped. Also, do not open or even look at any mail that says "RETURNED OR UNABLE TO DELIVERY" This virus will attach itself to your computer components and render them useless. Immediately delete any mail items that say this. AOL has said that this is a very dangerous virus and that there is NO remedy for it at this time. Please practice cautionary measures and forward this to all your online friends ASAP. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:46:24 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker [various exchange of comments snipped] You must forgive my friend Allstrick. His lack of interest to the Immortals is out of his own experiences. It is of my own opinion that the Immortals are well aware of his reasons and even understand them. I once asked Allstrick if he believed in Immortals. His response was "I do not believe in them, but I do fear their wrath." Well, I believe in Immortals and I can say that I am frightened of Allstrick. I have seen him in full form and am glad I call him friend. It is hard for any of you to understand what is like to lose a father to the Thyatians. Watch your mother die at the hands of brigands. Witness the death of dear friends and comrades. Driven out of your homeland by your brethren that see you as an embarrassment. It surprised me not of hearing that Allstrick had settled in Glantri. For there he found a society that welcomed him and his skills with open arms. It did surprise me when he left Glantri to fight for his homeland in the Great War. I shall never understand those Alphatians and their obsession of unity when it comes to the Empire. Even when the Empire has turned its back upon them. So I ask you not to judge him too harshly. He was and still is a great man. His greatness shows most notably in his doting care that he displays for that child of his. Tobius Throsyst- magist and scholar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:17:18 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Gaz In a message dated 98-02-12 15:59:49 EST, you write: << Alex Benson wrote: <> A strange and incredible thought has just flashed into my mind: what about a "Detailing Alphatia" competition? Each member of the mailing list writes his own mini-gazetteer after Daly's model detailing up to three countries of modern days Alphatia (flying continent of) and sends them to the list. Then maybe the editors of the Almanac could take the most interesting ones and use them as entries in one of the following almanacs. I think this is a fair proposal, but i must admit i haven't talked with the other fellow editors, so take this offer as unofficial for now, but send your entries anyway: it might help other listmembers flesh out their campaigns anyway! DM >> I like the idea. But I have a problem. I have adopted a template that I used in detailing the Hinterland Clans, the Emerond, and the Milenian City/States. Needless to say the description is quite lengthy as each nations cities/towns are described. Plus key NPCs are briefly details. Then there are some local notes concerning each settlement. I also had planned to have the description dated at AC1000. And after the AC1015 Almanac was issued an update be drawn up. And subsequently reupdated every five years afterward. I am currently working up a description of Randel and will post it shortly. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:56:01 +0200 (EET) From: Anias Pasi Subject: [MYSTARA] - Some Finish words too? This language thing have been wery interesting so far, so maybe I can add something too. Some finnish for us all. Maybe to use in Soderfjord or as a gnome-language, as it was used in a FR novel... { is a with 2 dots (sounds like baby crying ({{{{{{{!!!) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:24:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #75 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 0fdc9c92697f1eedd5b54c021b52863f | is o with 2 dots (sounds like the middle part of the cows sound (m||h) Ewerything is said like written (should be easy at least if You speak spanish) I'll start with the list Fabrizio posted: dwarf k{{pi| elf haltia mage maagi witch noita runes wizard riimuvelho priest pappi cleric pappi, or DD translation: Temppeliritari dragon lohik{{rme fighter taistelija thief varas monk munkki gnome maahinen kobold No translation orc |rkki ogre No Translation bat lepakko giant j{ttil{inen skeleton luuranko snake k{{rme rat rotta wolf susi boar villisika Fabrizio: >Anyway most of the monsters names don't have an italian equivalent, especially undeads. Same here, there is over 10 words in english that is translated into peikko (goblin) Weapon ase Shield kilpi Armor haarniska Sword miekka Helmet kyp{r{ Bow jousi Crossbow varsijousi Dagger tikari Rope k|ysi Coin kolikko So there... It might be interesting to collect a small wordbook with all the word in all the languages though... Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:29:19 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 10:53 12-02-98 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >>changes the perception of some of the critters, such as the elf, which changed considerably in Tolkiens Lord of the Rings, where as it earlier in Scandinavian mythology/folklore was much closer to the dryad creature adopted from Greek mythology. >The Scandinavians did not get the Alfar from the Greeks. Please cite your source for this contention. Correct, I guess I didn't make myself very clear here. I was thinking of the dryad in AD&D adopted from the Greek mythology. The elves are a kind of forest spirits and this was the resemblance that I was thinking of between the AD&D dryad and the Scandinavian elves compared to the Tolkien elves and Scandinavian elves. Hope I made myself somewhat more clear, otherwise let me know. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:31:56 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More Danish words At 10:56 12-02-98 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >>On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >>>Immortal Udødelig >>I find the word 'Udødelig' , which ofcourse is the same in Norwegian very clumsy in many ways. Have you thought about this? >English has the advantage of being the most bastard language in the world. Thus, we English-speakers can pick and choose from any other source on the planet that suits us. The Norwegian word has an exact equivalent in English: "undying". It is interesting to note that the Greek word translated as "immortal" in the Orthodox Liturgy is "athanatos", which is literally "undying". "You lucky bastards" :-) but one might, at least in Danish, also say udøende -> undying, though this also somewhat clumsy. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:38:10 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More Danish words At 10:10 12-02-98 -0500, you wrote: >As far as Danish translations, I would be interested in hearing some appropriate sentences involving more Norse-like cultures such as the Northern Reaches, the tribal cultures of Norwold, and the Freemen of Heldann. >1) I have travelled far and seen many things in my trusty longship. Jeg har rejst langt og set mange ting med mit gode gamle langskib. >2) Quiet or I'll whack you with my axe! Stille eller jeg hamrer dig en med min økse! >3) How much for your pig? Hvor meget skal du have for grisen? >4) Vegetarian?? You mean you are a turnip eater??? Ha! Vegetar? Mener du, at du er en kål æder??? Ha! >5) Those vile Knights of Heldann must be stopped! Disse afskyelige Heldann riddere skal stoppes! Any other translations needed? Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:40:04 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words At 11:46 12-02-98 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >>What does the word Lich originally mean? >Lich meant "corpse" in the 12th-13th centuries, which is why the gate through which funeral processions passed into the churchyard was known as the "lichgate". This is funny. The Danish word for corpse is lig. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:46:07 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - No related Topic At 04:45 PM 2/13/98 +0000, you wrote: >Hi folks, >I know it is not the place for non-topic-related discussions but I thought it necessary to give you this warning-mail I received lately. Furthermore that our mailing-list was partially bombarded with junk-mails. >--> Extract of an IBM-warning: >If you receive an email titled "JOIN THE CREW" DO NOT open it. It will erase everything on your hard drive. Forward this letter out to as many >people as you can. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know about it. This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM; please share it with everyone that might access the internet. >Once again, pass this along to EVERYONE in your address book so that this may be stopped. Also, do not open or even look at any mail that says "RETURNED OR UNABLE TO DELIVERY" This virus will attach itself to your computer components and render them useless. Immediately delete >any >mail items that say this. AOL has said that this is a very dangerous virus and that there is NO remedy for it at this time. Please practice cautionary measures and forward this to all your online friends ASAP. It is an old hoax my friend. Pay it no heed. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:02:12 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names In a message dated 98-02-12 14:00:18 EST, you write: << << My point exactly. Hmm.....could it be possible that the Khan and myself agree on something :-) >> Oh no! Vade retro, satanas... :-) << What about Gruenbucht for the area: bay and surrounding lands. Gruenhafen for the fortress and town. Vanyas Ruh for the temple holding her remains. >> And again we agree! Where will this end? >> Someone stop the insanity. Next cats and dogs will be living side by side. The clouds will open up and rain down torrents of instant chocolate pudding. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:38:31 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Bettellyn, Eadrin, Foresthome, and Frisland In a message dated 98-02-12 23:49:12 EST, you write: << The best source of information on these kingdoms is the first Poor Wizard's Almanac. The page numbers are as follows: Bettellyn 21 Eadrin 28 Foresthome 33 Frisland 34 The other two PWAs also have short descriptions of these places under the heading for "Alphatia". Michael. >> I stand corrected. Descriptions of the missing kingdoms are in the first PWA. My mistake. The Alphatia description is set up differently in the first PWA than its two successors. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:36:32 -0600 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words Responding to the message of Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:45:57 -0500 from Daly : >At 08:22 PM 2/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >>On 11 Feb 1998 11:14:10 -0300 3@giga.com.ar writes: IIIIf there are so many languages I'd to add two: Spanish and Hebrew. >>>Names in Hebrew: >>>Shalom >>I'm not so sure anyone would name their kid Hello, Goodbye, or Peace. >I don't know about that! I could certainly picture it here in America! :) Actually.. I know several people named Peace here in the south... it's really odd I must say... but then in the north there are some even weirder ones. ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:48:59 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Galwylin wrote: >I agree 100%!!! In fact, I usually point to Mystarian elves (Could Mystara be the long lost Elven home world?) as the way REAL elves would react to human and humanoid incursions into their lands. These elves fight for their way of In my "post-apocalyptic" Mystara, Elves may be the force behind the return of the magic. I will tell any prospective Elf players that their people do not have friendly feelings towards those who virtually banished them from their homes by banishing the magic to Hollow Earth. Maybe it's payback time. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:55:58 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors At 20:10 12-02-98 -0500, you wrote: > >What I was thinking of when I mentioned the portable boilers in which the Kopru were carried was a means by which they were carried from their hot pools and caverns to meet with Carnifex officials - they didn't spend all their time in them. I also found the mental imagery interesting - this mollusk/amphibian-type beast brooding in a black metal vat, in which bizarre gems glow, while it barks out commands to the Troglodyte porters carrying it. Now you did watch the movie Dune (ofcourse based on Frank Herbert's novel Dune), right? Lille my *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:34:43 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: In a message dated 98-02-12 22:35:24 EST, you write: << With the mention by listmembers of info contained in the DotE on Citadel and the nation of Bettelyn, I am starting to suspect there is something defective with my copy if that boxed set. Am I right that there is no canonical description of the Kingdom of Bettellyn, the Kingdom of Eadrin, the Kingdom of Foresthome, and the Kingdom of Frisland? If there is could I trouble you for source and page numbers? Thanks deeply! >> Yes there are several kingdoms omitted from DotE. IIRC the book says that Terari only describes a few, the ineresting ones. The missing kingdoms are briefly mentioned in PWA 3. Maybe PWA 2. Not in PWA1. Key stuff like populations and stuff can be found there. The map of Alphatia offers names and locales of other cities besides the capital. Bettelyn? Since I am working on Randel it might be wise for us to put our heads together. The skirmishes between the two do need some explaining. Then there are the network of defenses that lay on either side of the border. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:22:51 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - No related Topic On Fri, 13 Feb 1998 wizzard@mail.intcom.de wrote: >If you receive an email titled "JOIN THE CREW" DO NOT open it. It will erase everything on your hard drive. Forward this letter out to as many AAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! How many people are going to vall for this ANCIENT hoax? There is no such virus, never has been, never will be. >people as you can. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know about it. This information was announced yesterday The malicious part is the number of people who pass on this hoax and spam mailing lists with the "warning". >Once again, pass this along to EVERYONE in your address book so that this may be stopped. Also, do not open or even look at any mail that DO NOT DO THIS! DO NOT DO THIS! DO NOT DO THIS! There is no such virus. It is a hoax that I first saw in 1988. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #75 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:59:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #76 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 91ffc1ccaf77935208b09fc390fcc8e3 Status: RO mystara-digest Saturday, February 14 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 076 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Bettellyn, Eadrin, Foresthome, and Frisland [MYSTARA] - Too darn silly Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Candidates [MYSTARA] - Re: your mail Re: [MYSTARA] - Poison Neglect [was Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities] [MYSTARA] - Reviving Mystara (was: Immortal Mortal Identities) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - No related Topic Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:18:10 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Bettellyn, Eadrin, Foresthome, and Frisland At 09:38 AM 2/13/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-12 23:49:12 EST, you write: ><< The best source of information on these kingdoms is the first Poor Wizard's AAlmanac. The page numbers are as follows: >Bettellyn 21 >Eadrin 28 >Foresthome 33 >Frisland 34 >The other two PWAs also have short descriptions of these places under the heading for "Alphatia". >Michael. >> >I stand corrected. Descriptions of the missing kingdoms are in the first PWA. My mistake. The Alphatia description is set up differently in the first PWA than its two successors. *sigh of relief* I was starting to go crazy looking for missing page numbers! Thanks alot for the info! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:02:56 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: [MYSTARA] - Too darn silly Sentient cockroaches, a-la Joe's Apartment... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:50:07 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >The Camarilla connection can really throw >Funny, I thought the Sis'thek rode Xytars - says so in the Creature Catalogue, IIRC. Nerts. That does sound right... I'm misremembering again. I think the Camarillas are very-Xytar like creatures, though, so maybe that's where the confusion comes from. Guess I'll have to recheck DA3... good thing I've got the DA modules out already, for a project I'm working on. :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 00:23:23 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Candidates At 18.23 12/02/98 CET, you wrote: >Doriath will be featured in the 1015 net almanac. I fear what is intended for him does not fit well with your synopsis. I guess you're right :-) >>Starwatcher: (E10/magic level 20, patron Ilsundal, Energy) Starwatcher gained the sponsorship of Ilsundal shortly after leaving Alfheim for Wendar with the rest of the Longrunner clan. When the Shadow Elves put out their call for help he traveled to Aengomar to help reverse the ddamage >>to the forest. His Trial is to design a magic item capable of rreversing >>the damage to the forest. The components for this item will include Blackflame and water from the Pool of the Moon in the Sind desert (see X4). His Testimony will include recreating the forest, larger and more beautiful than it was before. Needless to say he is in for a long ppath. >That's interesting. I'm sure Brizio can use these ideas in future almanac. >I guess Starwatcher is featured in the 1015 almanac. Really I nice idea. I should check with DM, though. >>Travestis: (34TT/10D patron: Masawu, Entropy) The corrupted treant is approaching the end of his path to Immortality. His part in helping tthe >>Shadow Elves corrupt Canolbarth forest and corrupting the spell beyond their ability to reverse it, fulfilled his Testimony. He has only his Task to complete, the full scope of which is unknown, but which will include making sure that the Shadow and surface Elves do not make peace and promoting conflict throughout the area. >Very interesting. >However I do agree with (?) that his patron should rather be Atzanteotl. I agree too. It would make much more sense since it was Atzanteotl entropic magic that corrupted Canolbarth... at least according to me and Herve ;-) >Let's start with the most famous one, Etienne d'Ambreville. Rad will be featured in the next almanacs. >Porphyriel will be featured in the next almancs. Yes, I've nice plans for her in the future. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:52:31 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: your mail On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >With the mention by listmembers of info contained in the DotE on Citadel and the nation of Bettelyn, I am starting to suspect there is something defective with my copy if that boxed set. >Am I right that there is no canonical description of the Kingdom of Bettellyn, the Kingdom of Eadrin, the Kingdom of Foresthome, and the Kingdom of Frisland? There isn't anything on Frisland, Eadrin, or Foresthome, no. Nor on Theranderol, Randel, and one other that I can't think of offhand. I know there is something on the Kingdom that houses Citadel, though. It may be Bettellyn, or it may not be. It should be on the second page of descriptions, IIRC- the first page being the one beginning with Alphaks' Volcano. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:24:49 -0600 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Poison I'm trying to compile a list of poisons... If you all some I'd like to get em from ya. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:24:10 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Neglect [was Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >I agree. However, our main problem is recruiting more people. This list could die prematurely if we dont ressurect our world.. Haavard, Premature death of the list is possible but not for some time. As I stated in a rant on the Mystara boards on the TSR site, I find the handling of Mystara to be completely distasteful. My reasons are that is was converted to AD&D without any of its uniqueness intact (not counting its history which seemed to be the only thing kept). It became 'generic' is the worst sense of the word and, to top it off, presented as a setting for newcomers only. Then TSR doesn't even have the decency to keep its name in print. How many AD&D rules supplements have been produced that mention other worlds? And how many of those mentioned Mystara? Mystara has been neglected, the worst offense you can do to fans. You may destroy its history or its uniqueness but overlooking it is a capital crime! Before Spelljammer, which setting had majestic flying ships? Mystara! Before Al-Qadim, which setting captured the feel of the Arabian Nights? Mystara! Before Nethiril, the Empire of Magic from the Forgotten Realms past, which setting elevated the power of a nation of magic users? Mystara! Before many of the cool things in other settings, Mystara possessed them in detail and tied them to its history. A world ravaged and forgotten leaving its fans wondering if it will ever be allowed the recognition it truly deserves! (The rant is just an opinion. It's accuracy is unimportant much the same as Mystara seems to be to its creators) - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:46:13 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Reviving Mystara (was: Immortal Mortal Identities) On Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:11:53 +0100 (MET) =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= writes: OOn Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >>On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, HŒvard R¿nne Faanes wrote: >>>Seriously though,I hear he's back with TSR/WotC working on the GGreyhawk >>>revival project. Doesn't this pose a threat to us? I mean this mmakes the >>>chances of reviving Mystara fewer, doesn't it? >>Hey, who needs TSR/WotC to revive Mystara. It seems we are doing a ggood >>enough job as it is. TSR would just screw things up... ;) >I agree. However, our main problem is recruiting more people. This list >could die prematurely if we dont ressurect our world.. >HŒvard I have also thought about this. The only way I could see to recruit more people would be for the list to write Gazzeteers for all the nations in 1014 (or 1015). I don't think this would violate TSR's Online Policy, which says as long as you don't copy their stuff and don't try and sell anything, it's all right. The main drawback to this would be the HUGE amount of work required. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:23:37 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones >So let us make a guesstimate. How many years of game time does it take to get to name (9) level? How many to level 25? etc... Hard as I find it to believe now, many PCs I DMed attain rather high levels during a 9 year campaign: One fighter (a paladin) reached 26th. One mage reached 21st, some others high teens. One elf reached 5 or 6 attack ranks past 11th (used a wish for the ability to attain an extra level). That means about 2-3 levels per year. However, my campaigns started out with frequent games and became less so. Still, to work your way to immortality should take about 10 years of gaming (each time) taking into account fluctuations in the frequency of play, by my reckoning. Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:30:55 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) J. Daly wrote: >>DM wrote: >>I liked the overview of the country you presented here. No other comment except this idea: what about adding a character based on HPL's Richard Upton Pickman? Just to show also Aasla's darker side.. ;) >Forgive my ignorance: Who is he? Aarrgh! Wasn't it you the one who once said to be an english teacher? Then you MUST (i insist, U MUST! ;)) know who i am talking about. I'm sure Andrew "Cthul" does.. ;) HPL is the acronym for Howard Phillips Lovecraft, obviously, and the guy i'm referring to is featured in the short story "Pickman's Model", which has always intrigued me. It's about a famed artist (a painter) and the real nature of his models.. Go and read it if you've time (heck, read everything by HPL!): it can give you some ideas on how to scare your players.. ;) DM "I'll rip your fucking heart out of your filthy chest, you bastard!" "Afraid i don't have one.." An intrepid paladin addressing Prince Brannart McGregor *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:59:16 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions At 12.53 11/02/98 PST, MichaelX Harvey wrote: AAbility Scores: do most folks make "fair" rolls as described in the rules (including 1-for-2 adjustments) or do you use a "cheater" method from AD&D? I simply let my players roll four sets of rolls (discarding the "1" results for the pourposes of summing up the 3d6) and choose the set of rolls they most like. >Classes: anyone using the optional demi-human classes written up by Bryan Maloney? Nope. I use the Gaz adaptations and optional classes for demihumans however (dwarf cleric, master hin, etc.). >Levels: one cool thing about D&D is you can advance to 36th level and have truly heroic adventures, and there are some amazingly tough monsters too. Do most campaigns start at first level and progress up to 20+? Or do most campaigns stay low powered, or start with high-level characters? In my whole mastering life i've never started with players characters of level higher than expert. I normally start with basic (2nd level) PC trying Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:59:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #76 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 91ffc1ccaf77935208b09fc390fcc8e3 Status: RO to take them up to Master level and immortality (my oldest group is a Master level group). Think the best levels to play are between 6th and 15th level: not too much powerful but able to save the world risking their lives :) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 18:09:48 +0800 From: Glenn Butcher Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - No related Topic Thus spake wizzard@mail.intcom.de (wizzard@mail.intcom.de): [Snip "Join the crew"] If in doubt (and you should always be in doubt), try your neighbourhood computer guru or these links: Department of Energy Computer Incident Advisory Capability at http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html Symantec Anti Virus Research Center at http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/index.html McAfee Associates Virus Hoax List at http://www.mcafee.com/support/hoax.html Dr. Solomons Hoax Page at http://www.drsolomons.com/vircen/hoax.html The Urban Legends Web Site at http://www.urbanlegends.com Urban Legends Reference Pages at http://www.snopes.com Datafellows Hoax Warnings at http://www.Europe.Datafellows.com/news/hoax.htm Glenn - -- mailto:knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | If you were blowing things up, what you mailto:glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au | rather use: two high levels or 1,024 http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | 1st levels? - Seymour Cray on parallel | adventuring *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:38:24 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) At 10:30 AM 2/14/98 +0100, you wrote: >>>I liked the overview of the country you presented here. No other comment except this idea: what about adding a character based on HPL's Richard Upton Pickman? Just to show also Aasla's darker side.. ;) >>Forgive my ignorance: Who is he? >Aarrgh! Wasn't it you the one who once said to be an english teacher? Then you MUST (i insist, U MUST! ;)) know who i am talking about. I'm sure Andrew "Cthul" does.. ;) I'm not an English teacher, but I'm pretty well read, and I don't recognize the name either except as a fictional character in a Champions RPG supplement. Not everyone who reads has read Lovecraft. I have no use for that genre. >HPL is the acronym for Howard Phillips Lovecraft, obviously, and the guy i'm referring to is featured in the short story "Pickman's Model", which has Ah, I see the connection; the character in the adventure is named Howard Pickman, and he wrote horror stories in the mid-20's, which form the basis of an adventure involving opening a demonic portal on a native burial island. From what I know of Lovecraft (not much), there is a direct parallel here. Inside stuff for fans, I guess. >DM >"I'll rip your fucking heart out of your filthy chest, you bastard!" "Afraid i don't have one.." >An intrepid paladin addressing Prince Brannart McGregor Somehow I don't see a paladin using quite those words. Picture Sir Galahad in that situation. In fact, that sort of threat is more Avengerish than paladinish. The paladin will be more polite. "I shall send your soul to the dark depths of hell to be judged by Death himself!" "Actually, he's my sponsor to Immortality. I'll give him your regards, as well as your heart." It's just my opinion, of course. But I think it works better. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:02:41 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months In a message dated 98-02-12 22:35:15 EST, 3@giga.com.ar writes: >I know the name of the month (in D&D) but the seasons not. Do anybody ccan help me? I haven't seen any season names other than the obvious spring, summer, etc. >What about the name of the days? The common names of the days of the week are Lunadain, Gromdain, Tserdain, Moldain, Nytdain, Loshdain, and Soladain. There are many other variants, I am sure. >Do the years have 356 days? No, 12 months times 28 days equals 336 days. >The weeks have 7 days? Yes. >the days have 24 hours? Yes, but given that there are fewer days in the year I suspect that Mystaran days are slightly longer than real world days -- I am assuming that the years are close to equivalent. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:32:41 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) In a message dated 98-02-13 12:13:16 EST, bjm10@cornell.edu writes: >In my "post-apocalyptic" Mystara, Elves may be the force behind the rreturn of the magic. I will tell any prospective Elf players that their people do not have friendly feelings towards those who virtually banished them from their homes by banishing the magic to Hollow Earth. Maybe it's payback time. Then I would imagine that there would be no love lost between most Elves and the "traitors" of the Shiye-Lawr, right? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:32:46 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! In a message dated 98-02-12 05:05:01 EST, greis@dorit.ihi.ku.dk writes: >3. and some people are born as slaves. I don't think, that many are born as sslaves, but it also a source. It depends on the society, but if the children of slaves are also slaves, then there is little chance that the society would run out of slaves. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:32:47 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions In a message dated 98-02-11 17:07:32 EST, MichaelX_Harvey@ccm.jf.intel.com writes: >Classes: anyone using the optional demi-human classes written up by Bryan MMaloney? Is this write-up available on the Web? If so, what is the URL? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:55:27 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia In a message dated 98-02-11 04:33:07 EST, greis@dorit.ihi.ku.dk writes: >As far as I recall there was never a slave rebellion in Athens, neither did tthey fall to any inferiors unless you consider Philip and alexander the Great and the Romans for their inferiors. The same goes for most of the rest the greek city states. While you and I might not consider the Macedonians (i.e., Philip and Alexander) and Romans inferior to the Greeks, the Greeks themselves almost certainly did -- at least until they were conquered by these peoples. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:13:00 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) At 10:30 AM 2/14/98 +0100, you wrote: >J. Daly wrote: >>>DM wrote: >>>I liked the overview of the country you presented here. No other comment except this idea: what about adding a character based on HPL's Richard Upton Pickman? Just to show also Aasla's darker side.. ;) >>Forgive my ignorance: Who is he? >Aarrgh! Wasn't it you the one who once said to be an english teacher? Then you MUST (i insist, U MUST! ;)) know who i am talking about. I'm sure Andrew "Cthul" does.. ;) >HPL is the acronym for Howard Phillips Lovecraft, obviously, and the guy i'm referring to is featured in the short story "Pickman's Model", which has always intrigued me. It's about a famed artist (a painter) and the real nature of his models.. Go and read it if you've time (heck, read everything by HPL!): it can give you some ideas on how to scare your players.. ;) Hey, I said "forgive" my ignorance, not "blast it"!...You know the, I am sure, the educational system's blinders when it comes to genre fiction. I am currently fighting the admin to get a "genre fiction" class at the school where I teach. He is unaware of writers like Zelazney and others who write original deep stories that make the reader think. Ah well. I figured out who's initials HPL were. But I was unaware of that story. Besides, I don't have alot of time to read anymore...:p *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:33:37 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia At 08:55 AM 2/14/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-11 04:33:07 EST, greis@dorit.ihi.ku.dk writes: >>As far as I recall there was never a slave rebellion in Athens, neither did ttthey fall to any inferiors unless you consider Philip and alexander the Great and the Romans for their inferiors. The same goes for most of the rest the greek city states. >While you and I might not consider the Macedonians (i.e., Philip and Alexander) and Romans inferior to the Greeks, the Greeks themselves almost certainly did -- at least until they were conquered by these peoples. Not only that, but I would say the Romas were just about inferior to everybody back in the days of the city states. It was their culture\warrior ethic that I would argue was their primary advantage. Their generally older and militarily superior foes just did not have the same...determination... But as for the slavery issue and how it ties in here. Slavery in the city states was different from the slavery that is represented in Alphatia. Just as slavery in Thyatis is different from Alphatia. I maintain that the Alphatian slavery allows for more decline in Alphatia than Thyatis' slavery does for Thyatis. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:02:40 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, DM wrote: >HPL is the acronym for Howard Phillips Lovecraft, obviously, and the guy i'm referring to is featured in the short story "Pickman's Model", which has So, which D&D race already extant is closest to "Pickman's model" (the model, not the story), anyway? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:05:07 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months Maybe the Mystaran calendar is more complex than the published materials present. Maybe it's a lunar-solar calendar similar to that used by the Chinese or Hebrews. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:06:23 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >Then I would imagine that there would be no love lost between most Elves and the "traitors" of the Shiye-Lawr, right? "An elf who would live without magic is not an elf."--common Elf proverb. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:08:04 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-11 17:07:32 EST, MichaelX_Harvey@ccm.jf.intel.com writes: >>Classes: anyone using the optional demi-human classes written up by Bryan MMMaloney? >Is this write-up available on the Web? If so, what is the URL? Yes it is, the URL is "http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/bjm10/DnD/Classic/variety.html". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:58:54 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words << What does the word Lich originally mean? >> The first appearance in the German D&D version was as lich (Companion Set). In the Master Set it was named "Leichnam". Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:58:52 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics << Oscar Wilde: "England and America are two countries separated by the same language." >> I knew that there was an original version about England and America. Didn't I repeat it well enough? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #76 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 02:01:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #77 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: f72375d633ecb63e2701928bfeb2a216 mystara-digest Sunday, February 15 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 077 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving Mystara (was: Immortal Mortal Identities) Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving Mystara (was: Immortal Mortal Identities) Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Gaz [MYSTARA] - Cyclopedia classes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:58:55 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Candidates << Ramose is a likely candidate, though I don't think he questing yet. He's featured in the 1015 almanac. >> BTW, when will Ramose finish his quest to regain the grace of his Immortal Patron? AFAIK he is undertaking such a quest for the last years. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:02:14 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months << I know the name of the month (in D&D) but the seasons not. Do anybody can help me? What about the name of the days? Do the years have 356 days? The weeks have 7 days? the days have 24 hours? I know it's sound a little strange but there are good questions. >> Winter, Summer, Spring, Fall. Xingqiri, Xingqiyi, Xingqier, Xingqisan, Xingqisi, Xingqiwu, Xingqiliu. 336 7 24 Jamuga Khan "This were the results of the Ethengarian calendar." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:32:56 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months In a message dated 98-02-14 11:19:49 EST, bjm10@cornell.edu writes: >Maybe the Mystaran calendar is more complex than the published materials ppresent. Maybe it's a lunar-solar calendar similar to that used by the Chinese or Hebrews. If we take the published materials as being accurate (what is the alternative?), then the Mystaran calendar is much simpler than ours -- with a year that is in fact exactly twelve months long, there is less room for creativity in arranging the months. Only the names and starting points vary. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:51:19 +0000 From: "Mike Harvey" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model >On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, DM wrote: >>HPL is the acronym for Howard Phillips Lovecraft, obviously, and the guy i'm referring to is featured in the short story "Pickman's Model", which has >So, which D&D race already extant is closest to "Pickman's model" (the model, not the story), anyway? Well, IIRC the model was a tunnelling intelligent ghoul-dog which was large and blasphemously evil (of course). My initial thoughts would be wererat or werewolf, or possibly a ghoul variant. Nothing really seems like a close fit though. Here is a suggestion, sort of a combined werewolf/ghoul except that it doesn't shapechange. Any comments or suggestions? Pickman's Model Armor Class 4 Hit Dice 4** Move 180 (60) Attacks 2 claws/1 bite Damage 1d4/1d4/2d6 No Appearing 1d4 (1d8) Save As F5 Morale 10 Treasure Type B Intelligence 12 Alignment Chaotic XP Value 175 SD - Only hit by magic or silver; immune to sleep and charm SA - Attack paralyzes for 1d6 rounds (save vs Paralysis) Can be turned by a cleric like a Wraith. Cannot stand direct sunlight (1 point of damage per round). These creatures eat flesh, whether living or dead. They are evilly intelligent and delight in torture and slaughter. Normally they live in a network of tunnels beneath a city; the mazelike network will have many exits and usually connects to a graveyard. The creatures only come out at night to kidnap victims for their bloody rituals and moonlight feasts. They exude an aura of evil and dread which causes temporary paralyzation in their victims. If both claw attacks hit, the creature automatically bites! Mike - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:50:16 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? << I agree 100%!!! In fact, I usually point to Mystarian elves (Could Mystara be the long lost Elven home world?) as the way REAL elves would react to human and humanoid incursions into their lands. These elves fight for their way of life. They don't back down. Which is why only on Mystara would they lose their forest home (and not even their only one) but still plot to regain it alienating allies in doing so. Torilian elves should be taking notes on the correct way elves should conduct themselves. BTW, I'm kinda keen on elves too >> I'm just playing with a DM who knows nearly nothing about Mystara. He has sent the group of adventurers to another plane with Tolkien elves who never die. When they have enough they go to "lesser" worlds like Mystara. Additionally on this world lives the king of all elves who shall help to prevent a Mystaran evil elf from becoming immortal (it's a time-travelling story). And my co-players only say that the actual master has the right to do this as two groups haven't anything in common neither. Sometimes I'm weeping about this. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:50:14 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves disappearing? (was: Stereotypes) << The end of the Lord of the Rings (LotR) has most of the Fellowship of the Ring leave for Valinor, where the elves live in eternal happiness. Many prominent elves, like Cirdan, also left with them. The full story can only be known if you read the Silmarillion as well - where, in the creation epic, JRR Tolkien writes how the Valar (the gods) decides that elves will have the gift of eternal life, and when they tire of everyday existence they can sail over the western sea to the land of Valinor, where they will live among the Valar forever in peace. Men, on the other hand, are "blessed" with the gift of death, and they may leave Middle Earth entirely, going on to bigger and better realms than even the Valar can conceive of - so said Iluvatar, the supreme god. This isn't the full tale, because the Halls of Mandos (judgement day) are also a factor, but this is the idea in a nutshell. >> I'm sorry, Geoff, but as you presented it nobody who hadn't read "The Silmarillion" can understand the story. It was quite different in many aspects, but I don't have the time right now to write an own essay. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:50:13 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors << After doing my initial Underocean genealogy, I looked up the Kopru. They are described both in X1 (initial appearance) and in the Creature Catalogs as being Amphibians- not reptiles or mollusks. >> Once again a private idea was handled as an official. We must be careful in suchg things. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:30:06 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, DM wrote: >Aarrgh! Wasn't it you the one who once said to be an english teacher? Then you MUST (i insist, U MUST! ;)) know who i am talking about. I'm sure Andrew "Cthul" does.. ;) "Pickman's Model"- one of the single best and most horrific of HPL's Cthulhu mythos short stories. Second only to "The Rats in the Walls", IMO. That was a really great one. >HPL is the acronym for Howard Phillips Lovecraft, obviously, and the guy i'm referring to is featured in the short story "Pickman's Model", which has always intrigued me. It's about a famed artist (a painter) and the real nature of his models.. Go and read it if you've time (heck, read everything by HPL!): it can give you some ideas on how to scare your players.. ;) Pickman would be a good idea for Aasla- maybe we can mention something about him in next year's almanac- a PC mission or something. BTW- there was a case in the news recently that was very similar to Pickman's Model- some British (IIRC) artist who made these really lifelike sculptures of people. Turns out that he was modeling them on the body parts of cadavers. He was found out when someone recognized one of the sculptures as being a relative of his. Eerie... Life imitating Art... Which reminds me- we could always use that Re-Animator guy (can't think of his name offhand- he had a short story written about him) as a model for one of the wizards in Blackheart. That was a good story, too. A lot more "gore-horror" than "gothic-horror", but good nevertheless. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:35:48 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >So, which D&D race already extant is closest to "Pickman's model" (the model, not the story), anyway? You could just use Ghouls, though they're not quite the same in D&D as in the story. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 18:38:20 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months Gosh, I kinda hope not! :) At 11:05 AM 2/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >Maybe the Mystaran calendar is more complex than the published materials present. Maybe it's a lunar-solar calendar similar to that used by the Chinese or Hebrews. >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 18:40:49 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics At 11:58 AM 2/14/98 EST, you wrote: ><< Oscar Wilde: "England and America are two countries separated by the ssame language." >> >I knew that there was an original version about England and America. Didn't I repeat it well enough? I can't recall, but I think you said "two countries seperated by language", which literally has the same meaning. But it loses the wit by excluding "same language". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:10:46 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving Mystara (was: Immortal Mortal Identities) On Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:46:13 -0600, you wrote: >On Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:11:53 +0100 (MET) =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= writes: OOOn Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >>>On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, HŒvard R¿nne Faanes wrote: >>>>Seriously though,I hear he's back with TSR/WotC working on the GGGreyhawk >>>>revival project. Doesn't this pose a threat to us? I mean this Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 02:01:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #77 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: f72375d633ecb63e2701928bfeb2a216 >>makes the >>>>chances of reviving Mystara fewer, doesn't it? >>>Hey, who needs TSR/WotC to revive Mystara. It seems we are doing a gggood >>>enough job as it is. TSR would just screw things up... ;) >>I agree. However, our main problem is recruiting more people. This list >>could die prematurely if we dont ressurect our world.. >>HŒvard >I have also thought about this. The only way I could see to recruit more people would be for the list to write Gazzeteers for all the nations in 1014 (or 1015). I don't think this would violate TSR's Online Policy, which says as long as you don't copy their stuff and don't try and sell anything, it's all right. The main drawback to this would be the HUGE amount of work required. It is interesting to note that some people (myself included) have actually rediscovered D&D and Mystara again since coming to the Internet. There is undoubtly a market of old D&D players out there that have yet to be tapped. Getting new players attracted may be difficult as people are less inclined towards RPG/D&D when online multiplayer gaming like Ultima Online are making such impacts. Is it the fate of this list/Mystara to wither and die? What will happen in the next 10 years? Perhaps the Internet will save RPG as there are so many excellent utilities/program avaialble... plus it is so much more convenient for players to play via email. Just my thoughts. __________________________________ | |\ | Chris Billows | | | Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | | www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | |_________________________________| | \_________________________________\| *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:22:09 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >Do you have some stats for these Camarillas? Just checked things out last night, and I think I know where the confusion comes from. The Camarillas *are* essentially the same as the Xytars- they are larger (6 HD), but other than a different save (F3) are identical to the Xytar. Obviously, the designers used creatures that were known elsewhere, modified them slightly, and renamed them. They do similar things with other creatures- the Quargs (from DA3) are essentially Ice Wolves, and even the Sand People are loosely based on the description given for the Sis'thiks. As a result, I think we could then simply say that the Camarillas are a closely related species of beast to the Xytars. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:22:00 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< Oscar Wilde: "England and America are two countries separated by the ssame language." >> >I knew that there was an original version about England and America. Didn't I repeat it well enough? I recognized it, but our Oesterriecher friend didn't. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:26:24 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >If we take the published materials as being accurate (what is the alternative?), The alternative is to treat the published material as but a single *interpretation* of incomplete archaeological and historical records rather than treating it with some kind of religious reverence as some kind of "canon". >then the Mystaran calendar is much simpler than ours -- with a year that is in fact exactly twelve months long, there is less room for creativity in Too dull for my taste. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:30:16 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >>So, which D&D race already extant is closest to "Pickman's model" (the model, not the story), anyway? >You could just use Ghouls, though they're not quite the same in D&D as in the story. One might as well suggest that I use dragons, for all the similarity between the D&D ghouls and the HPL variety. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:31:47 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving Mystara (was: Immortal Mortal Identities) Let us not forget that it was the 'net that was instrumental in the revival of Greyhawk. What kind of connection do we have to WoTC/TSR? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:41:06 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors >I've got the DA modules out already, for a project I'm working on. :) Would that be the project you mentione to me, by any chance??? :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:40:15 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors >Now you did watch the movie Dune (ofcourse based on Frank Herbert's novel Dune), right? Well, I have seen Dune, but I was not thinking of this when I came up with the above idea. Mind you, there are similarities, now that you mention it. I was just trying to come up with an idea as to how, if the Carnifex created the Kopru, the Kopru could interact with their superiors when they prefer hot and wet habitats. Of course (this is a note to everyone), what is being discussed concerning Carnifex servitors applies _only_ to those ideas relating to the Carnifex Tyranny, Y'hog, Lhomarr, and related topics. In other words, I consider what is being discussed here as quasi-official - if you don't like it, don't use it - no harm done :-). On a related note, I'd like to issue to brief survey to all of you - please fill it out and email the response to me. Basically, I'd like to know who among you uses the material being discussed, what you'd like to see developed, and whether you'd like to contribute. If enough people respond I'll post the results later on. Please note: This is an improvised survey - my apologies if I have forgotten anyone's ideas. Also note that what I am including are those ideas that have either appeared publicly on the list, or are readily available from websites. Material from private discussions, such as that concerning Cynidicea (for example) does not count. *********************** Quasi-Canon Material Survey ******************** Please indicate whether you use the following materials in your campaign: CULTURES - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER YOU USE THE FOLLOWING CULTURES IN YOUR CAMPAIGN WORLD The Darine 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about them 4. I modified them to fit my world The Ungolwaith 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about them 4. I modified them to fit my world Kargoyles (did I get this right Marco?) 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about them 4. I modified them to fit my world Lhomarrians and Selhomarr 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about them 4. I modified them to fit my world Kaarjala 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about it 4. I modified it to fit my world MOrient (I know it's quiet right now, but there was a lot of stuff on the list about it) 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about it 4. Modified it to fit my world TIMELINES/HISTORICAL EVENTS - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER THE FOLLOWING EVENTS OR TIMELINES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN YOUR CAMPAIGN The Carnifex Tyranny 1. Include in campaign 2. Do not include in campaign 3. Don't know enough about it 4. Modified to fit my world The Carnifex of Y'hog 1. Include in campaign 2. Do not include in campaign 3. Don't know enough about it 4. Modified to fit my world Varellyan Timeline 1. Include in campaign 2. Do not include in campaign 3. Don't know enough about it 4. I modified it to fit my world Hyborian Timeline 1. Include in campaign 2. Do not include in campaign 3. Don't know enough about it 4. I modified it to fit my world PERSONAL PREFERENCES - PLEASE INDICATE YOUR CHOICE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS Races/Cultures 1. More new races/cultures 2. No more new races/cultures 3. Unsure "Lost History" (by this I mean details on dead cultures and such) 1. More lost history 2. Less lost history 3. Unsure General Impressions - how do you feel about quasi-canon material being discussed on the list? 1. Quasi-canon material is fine for discussion 2. The MML should stick only with canon material 3. Unsure - haven't made up my mind yet 4. I really don't care Final comments - please write below any messages and such that you wish to share with those who work on quasi-canon material: Anyhow, here's my contribution to the quasi-canon debate. I really think we should all talk about this, as there seems to be a lot of confusion concerning what it is, and whether or not people are quoting it as though it were full canon. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 18:38:25 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >>You could just use Ghouls, though they're not quite the same in D&D as in the story. >One might as well suggest that I use dragons, for all the similarity between the D&D ghouls and the HPL variety. Yeah. What was I thinking. That's a logical leap to make- ghouls to dragons... - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:11:27 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Gaz >I like the idea. But I have a problem. I have adopted a template that I used in detailing the Hinterland Clans, the Emerond, and the Milenian City/States. I like the idea too! BTW - What did you put down for the City States? Perhaps we can compare notes and such.....? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 06:54:15 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Cyclopedia classes Browsing throug the Cyclopedia, I noticed that if you use the alternative rules to advance the demihumans/mystic classes to 36th level you find the halfling needing the most experience points! (Which in a sense is saying this is the most powerful class) Surely the elf, would have to be... yet the halfling is. Go figure. Anyways I was think the Halfling class should have the following experience point progression... a little slower than dwaves since they gain a few extra abilities. 1 0 2 2,500 3 5,000 4 10,000 5 20,000 6 40,000 7 80,000 8 160,000 9 300,000 10 440,000 11 580,000 12 720,000 13 900,000 14 1,100,000 15 1,300,000 16 1,500,000 17 1,700,000 18 1,900,000 19 2,100,000 20 2,300,000 21 2,500,000 22 2,700,000 23 2,900,000 24 3,100,000 25 3,300,000 26 3,500,000 27 3,700,000 28 3,900,000 29 4,100,000 30 4,300,000 31 4,500,000 32 4,700,000 33 4,900,000 34 5,100,000 35 5,300,000 36 5,500,000 Much more reasonable then having to accumlate 6,600,000 EP! __________________________________ | |\ | Chris Billows | | | Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | | www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | |_________________________________| | \_________________________________\| *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #77 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:50:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #78 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 53583e0ec440a3cca15357ee8d459248 mystara-digest Sunday, February 15 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 078 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months [MYSTARA] - Cyclopedia classes... some more... Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving Mystara (was: Immortal Mortal Identities) Re: [MYSTARA] - Cyclopedia classes Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) [MYSTARA] - Adaptations to B1 - Info on NPC's [MYSTARA] - Adaptations to B1 - Introduction [MYSTARA] - Adaptations to B1 - Info for PC's ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 06:54:21 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:26:28 +0100 (MET), you wrote: >Chris Paul Billows wrote: ><> >Nope. Multiverse and the Nightmare Dimension are just two different dimensions, not two opposed dimensions. In the case they're brought into contact there will be spatial alterations where the two collides resulting in gates and wormholes that connect the two realities. I also think that given the influence of ND on multiverse inhabitants, the areas where the two dimensions collide will experience strange visual and psychic effects. Likely the people coming near or into these areas will experience strange visions or suffer from nightmares and various paranoid fits, probably resulting into madness or some forms of paranoia/schizophrenia due to prolongued exposure for not too strong minds. It is interesting how you maintain that the Nightmare Dimension is not opposed. It is described as such in the Gold Box... how normals and nightmares are poisonous to each other, how they are terrified of the other, how they are philospophically opposed, etc. It makes sense to me to keep them that way. IMO. __________________________________ | |\ | Chris Billows | | | Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | | www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | |_________________________________| | \_________________________________\| *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Feb 1998 10:36:48 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months >Winter, Summer, Spring, Fall. I wanted to say the duration of the seasons. >Xingqiri, Xingqiyi, Xingqier, Xingqisan, Xingqisi, Xingqiwu, Xingqiliu. I have a diferent version: Lunadain, etc... Who is right? Jonathan Leibisuky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:36:56 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Cyclopedia classes... some more... Actually... I was inspired and edited the Dwarf and Mystic Classes as well... Anyways I was think the Halfling class should have the following experience point progression... a little slower than dwaves since they gain a few extra abilities. Hafling Dwarf/Gnome 1 0 0 2 2,500 2,250 3 5,000 4,500 4 10,000 9,000 5 20,000 18,000 6 40,000 36,000 7 80,000 72,000 8 160,000 144,000 9 300,000 270,000 10 440,000 400,000 11 580,000 530,000 12 720,000 660,000 13 900,000 800,000 14 1,100,000 1,000,000 15 1,300,000 1,200,000 16 1,500,000 1,400,000 17 1,700,000 1,600,000 18 1,900,000 1,800,000 19 2,100,000 2,000,000 20 2,300,000 2,200,000 21 2,500,000 2,400,000 22 2,700,000 2,600,000 23 2,900,000 2,800,000 24 3,100,000 3,000,000 25 3,300,000 3,200,000 26 3,500,000 3,400,000 27 3,700,000 3,600,000 28 3,900,000 3,800,000 29 4,100,000 4,000,000 30 4,300,000 4,200,000 31 4,500,000 4,400,000 32 4,700,000 4,600,000 33 4,900,000 4,800,000 34 5,100,000 5,000,000 35 5,300,000 5,200,000 36 5,500,000 5,400,000 Mystics EX AC MV #AT DAM ABI 1 0 9 120 1 1d4 2 2,000 3 4,000 8 130 1 1d4+1 4 8,000 Awareness 5 16,000 7 140 1 1d6 6 32,000 7 64,000 6 150 1 1d6+1 8 120,000 Heal Self 9 240,000 5 160 1 1d8 10 360,000 11 480,000 4 170 2 1d8+1 12 600,000 Speak w Animals 13 720,000 3 180 2 1d10 14 840,000 15 960,000 2 190 2 1d10+1 16 1,080,000 Resistance 17 1,200,000 1 200 2 1d12 18 1,320,000 19 1,440,000 0 210 2 1d12+1 20 1,560,000 Speak w Anyone 21 1,680,000 -1 220 3 2d6+2 22 1,800,000 23 1,920,000 -2 230 3 2d8 24 2,040,000 Mind Block 25 2,160,000 -3 240 3 2d10 26 2,280,000 27 2,400,000 -4 250 3 2d12 28 2,520,000 Blankout 29 2,640,000 -5 260 4 3d6+2 30 2,760,000 31 2,880,000 -6 280 4 3d8 32 3,000,000 Gentle Touch 33 3,120,000 -7 300 4 3d10 34 3,240,000 35 3,360,000 -8 320 4 3d12 36 3,480,000 Survival __________________________________ | |\ | Chris Billows | | | Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | | www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | |_________________________________| | \_________________________________\| *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:06:13 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving Mystara (was: Immortal Mortal Identities) >Getting new players attracted may be difficult as people are less inclined towards RPG/D&D when online multiplayer gaming like Ultima Online Designer Dragon digs Mystara! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:46:47 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cyclopedia classes In a message dated 98-02-15 02:20:45 EST, cpb@gatewest.net writes: >Browsing throug the Cyclopedia, I noticed that if you use the alternative rules to advance the demihumans/mystic classes to 36th level you find the halfling needing the most experience points! (Which in a sense is saying this is the most powerful class) Surely the elf, would have to be... yet the halfling is. Go figure. I think the real problem is the Elf advancement, not the Halfling advancement (which should be more expensive than that of Dwarves -- after all, Halfllings don't fight as well as Dwarves do!). The problem is that Elves continue to advance in both combat and magic ability, even though the gazetteers basically force them to choose one or the other after they reach 10th level. I would force Elves using the alternative rules to do likewise. However, if they later decide to improve the lesser ability, they could do so -- but only the primary class would confer additional hit points. By this scheme an Elf who advances to 36th level in both classes would require enough XPs to reach 62nd level -- which would be about right for such a powerful character. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:48:51 -0500 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months 3@giga.com.ar wrote: >>Winter, Summer, Spring, Fall. >I wanted to say the duration of the seasons. >>Xingqiri, Xingqiyi, Xingqier, Xingqisan, Xingqisi, Xingqiwu, Xingqiliu. II have a diferent version: Lunadain, etc... Who is right? They're both right. The names of the days of the week vary depending where on the location on Mystara. Thyatis: Lunadain, Gromdain, Tserdain, Moldain, Nytdain, Loshdain, Soladain. Ethengar: Xingqiri, Xingqiyi, Xingqier, Xingqisan, Xingqisi, Xingqiwu, Xingqiliu Alphatia: Majhur, Tijhur, Wojhur, Thajhur, Flajhur, Sejhur, Lajhur Rockhome: Syhardan, Thradan, Evedan, Dorfdan, Duldan, Sythdan, Fildan Sind: Som-bar, Mangal-bar, Budh-bar, Brihaspati-bar, Sukra-bar, Sanee-bar, Rabi-bar Ylaruam: Yaum al-ahad, Yaum al-athnen, Yaum at-talit, Yaum al-arba, Yaum al-hamis, Yaum al-jum'at, Yam as-sabt The names of the month can also vary, and some places such as Minrothad and the Shadow Elves, have entirely different calendars (14 months of 24 days for the Shadow Elves for example). The Thyatian calendar and names are the most well known, however. Michael. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:33:52 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months In a message dated 98-02-15 08:52:01 EST, 3@giga.com.ar writes: >>Winter, Summer, Spring, Fall. >I wanted to say the duration of the seasons. Three Mystaran months each. >>Xingqiri, Xingqiyi, Xingqier, Xingqisan, Xingqisi, Xingqiwu, Xingqiliu. II have a diferent version: Lunadain, etc... Who is right? Both. You are citing the common names. JamugaKhan (true to his persona) listed the Ethengarian names. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:39:51 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months << >Winter, Summer, Spring, Fall. I wanted to say the duration of the seasons.>> No problem! Autumn: Two months 1st. Chagai to 28th. Rinpoch, seasonal camp Xantha. Winter: Four months 1st. Komai to 28th. Yalmai, seasonal camp Bargha. Spring: Two months. 1st. haimai to 28th. Kevamai, seasonal camp Xantha. Summer: Four months. 1st. Seimai to 28th. Demai, seasonal camp Chagon-Nah. >Xingqiri, Xingqiyi, Xingqier, Xingqisan, Xingqisi, Xingqiwu, Xingqiliu. I have a diferent version: Lunadain, etc... Who is right? >> The Mighty Khan, of course.... :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:39:47 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics << I can't recall, but I think you said "two countries seperated by language", which literally has the same meaning. But it loses the wit by excluding "same language". >> I'm SOO sorry... :-) Jamuga Khan "I'm the Mighty Khan, and not aprofessor for English literature." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:39:50 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors << Anyhow, here's my contribution to the quasi-canon debate. I really think we should all talk about this, as there seems to be a lot of confusion concerning what it is, and whether or not people are quoting it as though it were full canon. >> This is a real problem: Who decides what to become net-canon? I have not read all net material, but there are some inconsistencies. What we need, is a group, a council, to decide about such things. I'm sorry, but you, the Net Almanac authors, are predestinated to fulfill this role. Jamuga Khan "Be brave and ride! The victory and the honor will be yours." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:51:32 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) >I agree. However, our main problem is recruiting more people. This list could die prematurely if we dont ressurect our world.. Do you really think this list is low on subscribers? Last time I checked (using the "who mystara-l command") there were more than 100 people and the amount of daily messages doesn't seem that of a dying list. Just my opinion. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:52:04 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Adaptations to B1 - Info on NPC's This is the 4th of 4 messages regarding my personal adaptations to Module B1 - In Search of The Unknown. Enjoy! This message contains statistical and other details on the three NPCs that my PC's intereact with when dealing with "House Ashbridge" Dealers in Arts and Antiquities. Note that while I play OD&D, one 'house rule' I use is the addition of the 1st Ed AD&D Comliness Stat. This should give you a vague idea of how 'beautiful' these individuals are vs. how 'commanding a pressence' they have, which is what Charisma stands for in my campaign. - -------- Merith (Melissa) "the Fair" Ashbridge: F19 55HP Str 16, Int 13, Wis 13, Dex 15, Con 11, Cha 17, Com 16 43yrs old, 5'5", grey hair with streaks of dark blonde still showing, crystal blue eyes. Looks like a mother who can be strict when necessary, but usually gives her children sweets. Despite her age she is still very fit and very attractive and quite persuasive. Languages: Darokinian, Thyatian, Elven. Skills: Barganing [+1] (Ch), Blind Shooting (Dx), Craft: Bowyer (In), Craft: FletCher [+1] (In), Art: Poetry (Wi), Singing [+1] ((Ch + Cm)/2). Weapon Proficiencies: Long Bow (EX), Normal Sword (EX), Staff (SK), Javelin (SK) Armour: (worn and carried when she feels it is appropriate) Chain mail, Round Shield Magic: Shirt of +2 chain mail - -------- Jorn Ashbridge: M4 6HP Str 10(12), Int 18, Wis 13, Dex 11(12), Con 9, Cha 13(14), Com 17 19yrs old, 5'9", straw blonde hair, piercing blue eyes. Family resemblance to Merith (he is her son) is apparent when they are next to each other. Very smart, very attractive and persuasive young man but he looks very, very frail. Likes to talk, (when given permission by Melissa or Erig) but knows when to keep his council. Rarely goes anywhere without his mother or Erig along. Languages: Darokinian, Thyatian, Elven, Hin, Drako (Dragon) [self taught. pronunciation is terrible]. Skills: Alchemy (In), Singing ((Ch + Cm)/2), Art: Painting (Wi), Healing (In). Weapon Proficiencies: Staff (SK), Sling (BS). Armour: None Magic: "Hero's Ring" (+2 to Strength, +1 to Dexterity, +1 to Charisma while worn) Spells Known: (1st) Analyse, Detect Magic, Magic Missile, Read Magic, Shield, Sleep, Magic Missile. (2nd) Continual Light, Invisibility, Knock, Levitate, Mirror Image, Web, Wizard Lock Spells Memorized: On a Journey: Shield, Magic Missile, Invisibility, Mirror Image. Otherwise: Analyze, Detect Magic, Continual Light, Knock - -------- Erok (Erig) "the Brave" Toras: F23 81HP Str 17, Int 16, Wis 15, Dex 13, Con 14, Cha 11, Com 13 60yrs old, 5'11", salt and pepper hair, deep brown eyes. Looks like a stern grandfather type. Hard, outdoor work has given him strong muscles and sun weathered hands and face. Moderate attractiveness, (reasonable for his age). Isn't prone to talking. Languages: Darokinian, Thyatian, Ork, Kobold. Skills: Wrestling [+1] (St), Intimidation [+1] (St), Danger Sense [+1] (Wi), Military Tactics [+2] (In), Endurance [+2] (Cn). Weapon Proficiencies: Battle Axe(SK), Bastard Sword (MS), Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:50:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #78 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 53583e0ec440a3cca15357ee8d459248 Heavy Crossbow(BS), Javelin (EX), Dagger (BS) Armour: (usually worn) Banded Mail Magic: Suit of +2 banded mail - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:49:02 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Adaptations to B1 - Introduction Heya everyone This is the 1st of 4 messages regarding my personal adaptations to Module B1 - In Search of The Unknown. Enjoy! (This particular message is a bit of an introduction for the next three posts.) A while ago, someone was talking about merchant houses in Darokin and whether anyone had developed any 'minor' houses of their own. I mentioned the fact that I'd made some personal modifications to Module B1 -- In Search of The Unknown and that it had "accidentally" resulted in the development of "House Ashbridge" -- dealers in Arts, Antiquities and Rare Magic. Ray Brooks sent a message to the list indicated that this sounded interesting as he was thinking of making adaptations to this same Basic level campaign to be used with the 15lv characters in his current campaign and so I asked him, privately, if he'd like to see the documents that I had developed for my adaptations. I shared my developments with Ray and he, apparently, rather enjoyed them. He also said the following in a message to me: At 12:36 PM 2/9/98 -0500, Ray Brooks wrote: TThere are really a huge number of ways to develop these ideas you've kindly provided! I imagine that quite a few of the MML members would be interested in seeing these developments. Allow me to encourage you to post them or offer them to some of the guys who have the more extensive index-like pages. Breathing new life into an old module like this is so invigorating. Well, I'm off to brainstorm! Thanks again! I'd like to thank Ray for his encouragement -- For some reason I was hesitating about inflicting my adaptations on the list. ;-) Anyway, now that my trepidation has passed, I will be sending a number of messages to the list containing text only versions of the Word documents I shared with Ray. This means, of course, that some of the formatting will be lost, but such is the way of mailing lists. Also, since I'm not maintaining any FRPG pages at my already extensive Web Site, I would like to ask if someone who likes the adaptations and who maintains a Mystara web page would be interested in hosting original Word97 copies of the files on their web site. I can also provide them as an earlier version of Word -- they were originally written in Word 2.0 for Win3.1 and I sent Word95 versions to Ray -- or as another regular format such as RTF. Okay, that's the Intro, keep an eye out for the next three portions of this suite of messages. Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- PS & BTW: For those who are wondering, I don't maintain an FRPG page because I discovered I just don't have the time to work on ANOTHER set of pages (I already maintain four hefty personal web sites and two client sites!) This, of course, means that the MML archive pages is now back in Leroy's court -- I've already appologized to him for my inability to continue with that project. - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:50:09 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Adaptations to B1 - Info for PC's This is the 2nd of 4 messages regarding my personal adaptations to Module B1 - In Search of The Unknown. Enjoy! This message contains two "Literary Essays" and a list of "typical rumours" about the 'famed' denizens of the dungeon that is the main part of this Module -- Zelligar the Unknown, Rogahn the Fearless and some of their co-horts. The rumours are ones a native of Darokin or Alfheim might have heard. The stuff contained in these sections were designed for PC consumption -- not all of the information is necesarily 'True'. The reason for the "Essay" format is because one of my PC's likes to do Research in Libraries when she can. - -------- Essay #1 - -------- The History of Rogahn the Fearless and Zelligar the Unknown Written by Anzer Tallah, resident profesor at Attleson University in the city of Darokin As determined by research in the great libraries of the Republic of Darokin done during the year 996 The great warrior Rogahn the Fearless and the fantastik magician Zelligar the Unknown were two of the finest champions Darokin has ever been lucky enough to see. No one knows what occurrences or coincidence brought these two men together, but it is known that they were quick to form a strong bond of friendship. And it was a union that would last for ages. It is commonly agreed that these two great heros chose to pool their resources and expertise to construct a home and stronghold for the them to use as a base of operations for their ventures into the known world. They chose the location of their complex with care, since both men disliked unexpected visitors and intruders. Rumours agree that they placed the fortress far from the nearest settlements and away from well traveled routes and that they carved it out of a high, defensible rock formation. As to exactly where in the republic of Darokin they their mystical hideaway, no source seems to agree: near the source of the Helleck River in the Cruth Mountains, a rocky moutian ledge just north of Lake Amsorak overlooking forested hills yet completely surrounded by mountains, a craggy outcroping at the Southern point of the Silver Silver Sierras, a cave-ridden cliff at the very western tip of the Dwarfgate Moutains. The list goes on, but these are the places most frequently suggested. Even less well know than its location is the name the occupants called the fortress by, the only conclusive information being that it was something starting with 'Q'. It is interesting to note that most stories agree that the initial construction of the complex took over a decade, even with the use of great magics and the toil of many humanoid slaves and hired labourers. Rogahn and Zelligar lived in their joint sanctuary for quite some time, conducting most of their affairs from within except for their sporadic adventures in the outside world where both added to their growing reputations as foremost practitioners of their respective arts. It is interesting to note that, at the time, the deeds and adventures of these two men were not well known since they kept their distance from civilization. It was only in later years that songs and stories of their exploits seem to have popped up in all regions of Darokin. Because of their secrecy and rejection of regular society some stories suggest that their motives were based on greed or some kind of vague evil, though no one seems to know for sure. Despite their questionable alignment, it is apparent that Rogahn and Zelligar capped their reputations of power when they joined forces with the Darokin Army to help stop an Orc invasion in the summer of 967. No one is sure why they chose to involve themselves in this crisis, but it is known fact that in a crucial battle, on the 11th day of Fyrmont, at the border of the Broken Lands between Fort Runnels and the ruins of Ardelphia, they appeared unexpectedly on the battlefield and combined their powerful force with that of Darokin and decisively turned back the invasion. Many of the stories claim that Rogahn slew a horde of Orcs single-handedly and then Zelligar put the Orc army to flight with his powerful magic. While the personal deeds of Rogahn and Zelligar have no doubt been exagerated by the story tellers, there is no doubt that the presence of their private army was decisive in routing the humanoid wariors. It is well known that the grateful populace of Darokin rewarded the pair and their numerous henchmen with a considerable amount of treasure. After this adventure the two disappeared into their fortress again continuing to venture forth for adventure from time to time. Most of the stories about them tell of this period and how they accumulating more an more wealth (while simultaneouly building upon their reputations). It is in these stories that the other people who are commonly associated with Rogahn and Zelligar begin to appear. Erig "the Brave", son of Rogahn's childhood friend Darren Boras (or Toras, though about 70% of all references use the former), student and ally of Rogahn and Captain of The Guard of their army of henchmen. Marevak, trusted advisor to both, and apprentice to Zelligar. Melissa "the Fair", the young, beautiful and capable woman who won the heart of Rogahn and charmed the reluctant Zelligar into a warm and lasting friendship. Although these three must have been much younger than the two heros, the stories tell of the extreme devotion between all five, and how they lived, loved and adventured together during much of the next decade. The latest known stories about Rogahn and Zelligar tell of their decision to foray into the Broken Lands in an attempt to eradicate the looming Orc meanace in the north. Taking most of their henchmen and associates along in a great armed band, the two personages disappeared into the forbidding alien lands. As to the current wherabouts of these great men and their followers, virtually nothing in known. There are no futher stories about the heros after this time, and the stories we do have tell only of their "wonderous" army and their "determined" march into the Broken Lands. Nothing is said of the results or if they ever returned. There are a few reports of wandering bards singing songs that tell of some great battle where Rogahn and Zelligar met their demise, but as yet there are few details and no substantiation of the story. If it is true, this rumoured clash must have occurred some years ago, as the existing stories date their initial excursion to somewhere around 979/80. The only thing certain is that Rogahn and Zelligar have not been heard of or from since. - -------- Essay #2 - -------- The following is a well constructed essay from one of my better students which discuses the interesting stories of Rogahn's mistress. I felt it deserved to be included with my scrolls. A. Tallah Melissa "the Fair" Being an Exposition about the Beautious Mistress of Rogahn the Fearless Written by Sarah Veckar, this 8th day of Sviftmont, 997 Class: "Darokinian Legend and History" Professor: Master Anzer Tallah The tales of Rogahn the Fearless mostly tell of his own wonderous deeds, and those of his companion Zelligar the Unknown. However, there are a small number of others who are frequently mentioned in conjunction with these heros in many of the later stories. This exposition shall discuss what is commonly believed about his mistress, Melissa "the Fair", and will attempt to sift some of the facts from the embellishments. To begin, the stories frequently tell that Melissa exhibited an incredible prowess in fighting and most accounts claim that this, in combination with her beauty, was how she managed to capture the heart of her lover. The most frequently recorded account claims that he came upon her in the woods as she was in the midst of an encounter with two large, unfriendly Orcs and as a result of their victory he became enamoured of this woman who was both beautiful and capable in a fight. A few of the stories tell how she had managed to kill both Orcs before he had a chance to "rescue" her, but it is more frequently claimed, and therefore believed, that he came to her aid, and fought by her side. Though they were years apart in age (Typically, the stories claim that Melissa was but 17 or 18 while Rogahn was somewhere between 46 and 50), it is said they loved each other deeply and truly. Because of this, and because of her grace and charm, she built a strong friendship with Rogahn's longtime companion, Zelligar. Eventually, her name is mentioned as frequently as the two heros in stories of their conquests and adventures throughout the known world. There are a few accounts which place her at the famous battle where Zelligar and Rogahn defeated the Orc invasion near Ardelphia, but this is unlikely since the accounts of the lover's first meeting would place it between 5 and 10 years after this date. Several stories say that Melissa's feminine influence brought some beauty to the subterranean stronghold she agreed to live in with her lover. There are other rumours that she even orchestrated a small number of gala dinners for a select number of Darokinan nobility who were whisked into the fortress by magical means, though this does seem unlikely as Rogahn and Zelligar had always prefered their relative solitude to associations with regular society. Nonetheless, Melissa's presence in their hidden fortress must have changed much of the "household" workings of Wizard, Warior and Henchmen. As an interesting final note, Melissa is not directly mentioned in any of the stories regarding the last known excursion of Rogahn and Zelligar into the Broken Lands. This is unusual, especially since the two other people who are frequently mentioned in the stories (Erig, the Captain of the Guard, and Marevek, the Esteemed Advisor) are discussed in the majority: Erig directs the army, of course, as it enters the Orc's homelands, and Marevek remained in Darokin to wait for the hero's return or word of their demise in any one of a number of cities and towns. As puzzling and vague as this is, it is generally agreed by scholars that she must have gone into the Broken Lands with the army, as the stories always say that, after they met, she always joined Rogahn on his adventures. There appear to be few reasons why she would not have gone, and so I must also agree with the general concensus that she is as missing as Rogahn, Zelligar and Erig have been these past 20 years. - ----------- The Rumours - ----------- Well Known Stories of Rogahn the Fearless and Zelligar the Unknown (Stories that the average Darokinian or Alfheim Elf has heard about the heroes) * The great warrior Rogahn the Fearless and the fantastik magician Zelligar the Unknown were two of the finest champions Darokin has ever been lucky enough to see. * Marevak, had been a Darokinan Diplomant and became the trusted advisor to Rogahn and Zelligar. Eventually, Zelligar took him on as an apprentice. * Rogahn and Zelligar pooled their resources and expertise to construct a home and stronghold near the source of the Helleck River in the Cruth Mountains. * Construction of the complex took over ten years. There are three levels, two watch towers and hundreds of natural maze like tunnels that the unwary could get lost forever in. * There is a rear entrance into the complex which is secret and well hidden w Rogahn's most trusted friend, and the Captain of the Guard was Erig "the Brave". * The hideaway of Rogahn the Fearless. Zelligar the Unknown, Melissa The Fair and Erig the Brave was carved out of a craggy, cave-riddled outcroping of rock near the Southern point of the Silver Silver Sierras * It is impossible for an uninvited guest to find the main entrance to the stronghold. However, invited guests can easily find the sumptuous golden archway that graces the entrance cave. * Despite their good deeds, Rogahn's and Zelligar's drive for power and wealth was actually fed by greed (or maybe even kind of vague evil). They are not actually missing, but are conspiring with the Ogres of the Broken Lands to overrun all of Darokin. * Zelligar and Rogahn used Orc and Kobold slaves to help build their stronghold. * Rogahn and Zelligar once joined forces with the Darokin Army to help stop an Orc invasion. In the mighty battle that occured, Rogahn slew a whole horde of Orcs single-handedly and then Zelligar put the Orc army to flight with nothing but his powerful magic. * In the long, and unexpected absence of its owners, Toglodytes and other nasties have moved into the complex and have made it their home. * The treasures of Rogahn and Zelligar were safely stored at the bottom of a pool of water, deep within the bowels of their cavernous, before they embarked on their last adventure. * Melissa "the Fair", was the young, beautiful and capable mistress of Rogahn. She won his heart by defeating four Orcs single handedly before he had a chance to come to her aid. * Almost 20 years ago, Rogahn and Zelligar took their army into the Broken Lands and they have not been heard from since. * Before leaving their stronghold, Zelligar wrapped an incredible defensive spell around the entire mountain it was built into. Anyone entering without the proper password will be instantly killed! - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #78 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:20:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #79 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 51a3fcce4a8338f5b399101b2bdb6ff8 Status: RO mystara-digest Sunday, February 15 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 079 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Adaptations to B1 - Info for DM's Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:51:09 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Adaptations to B1 - Info for DM's This is the 3rd of 4 messages regarding my personal adaptations to Module B1 - In Search of The Unknown. Enjoy! This message contains items similar to that in the 1st message (Info for PC's) except that there is significant extra information provided which is for "The DM's eyes only". The two Essays from the 1st message are reproduced here, with some DM only clarifications in place. Where more than one 'answer' existed in the Essay, the 'True' answer is highlighted by being set off in double braces. {{This is an example of highlighted text}}. When no answer existed, one has been added to the text and highlighted in the same way. When the answer was vague (or dead wrong), explanations have been added and also highlighted. (In the original word document the highlighting is more obvious as it is done by making the appropriate text bold italic). After the Essays, there is some additional information that goes beyond the contents of the two Essays. In particular, it explains what really happened to the two heros, and what happened to three of their closest companions. It is these three companions who became my 'accidental' House in Darokin. Finally, after all that background information, there is a small section covering suggested changes that should be made to a few areas of the Module itself in order to fit these adaptations into it. Note that my campagin is currently being run in 999AC. I think that I had originally planned to have it run in 998 but changed my mind later, so it is possible that some of the ages and dates may be off by a year. Please keep this in mind and be lenient if errors are discovered :-) - -------- Essay #1 - -------- The great warrior Rogahn the Fearless and the fantastik magician Zelligar the Unknown were two of the finest champions Darokin has ever been lucky enough to see. No one knows what occurrences or coincidence brought these two men together, but it is known that they were quick to form a strong bond of friendship. And it was a union that would last for ages. It is commonly agreed that these two great heros chose to pool their resources and expertise to construct a home and stronghold for the them to use as a base of operations for their ventures into the known world. They chose the location of their complex with care, since both men disliked unexpected visitors and intruders. Rumours agree that they placed the fortress far from the nearest settlements and away from well traveled routes and that they carved it out of a high, defensible rock formation. As to exactly where in the republic of Darokin they their mystical hideaway, no source seems to agree: near the source of the Helleck River in the Cruth Mountains, a rocky moutian ledge just north of Lake Amsorak overlooking forested hills yet completely surrounded by mountains, {{a craggy outcroping at the Southern point of the Silver Silver Sierras}}, a cave-ridden cliff at the very western tip of the Dwarfgate Moutains. The list goes on, but these are the places most frequently suggested. Even less well know than its location is the name the occupants called the fortress by, the only conclusive information being that it was something starting with 'Q' {{Quasqueton}}. It is interesting to note that most stories agree that the initial construction of the complex took over a decade {{13 years}}, even with the use of great magics and the toil of many humanoid slaves and hired labourers. Rogahn and Zelligar lived in their joint sanctuary for quite some time, conducting most of their affairs from within except for their sporadic adventures in the outside world where both added to their growing reputations as foremost practitioners of their respective arts. It is interesting to note that, at the time, the deeds and adventures of these two men were not well known since they kept their distance from civilization. It was only in later years that songs and stories of their exploits seem to have popped up in all regions of Darokin. Because of their secrecy and rejection of regular society some stories suggest that their motives were based on greed or some kind of vague evil, though no one seems to know for sure. Despite their questionable alignment, it is apparent that Rogahn and Zelligar capped their reputations of power when they joined forces with the Darokin Army to help stop an Orc invasion in the summer of 967. No one is sure why they chose to involve themselves in this crisis, {{it was occuring quite close to their stronghold, so it was to their advantage to stem the tide}} but it is known fact that in a crucial battle, on the 11th day of Fyrmont, at the border of the Broken Lands between Fort Runnels and the ruins of Ardelphia, they appeared unexpectedly on the battlefield and combined their powerful force with that of Darokin and decisively turned back the invasion. Many of the stories claim that Rogahn slew a horde of Orcs single-handedly and then Zelligar put the Orc army to flight with his powerful magic. {{This is in fact true, though the "horde" of Orcs was on the smaller side and Zelligar was actually helping with his magic.}} While the personal deeds of Rogahn and Zelligar have no doubt been exagerated by the story tellers, there is no doubt that the presence of their private army was decisive in routing the humanoid wariors. It is well known that the grateful populace of Darokin rewarded the pair and their numerous henchmen with a considerable amount of treasure. ((Most of the treasure was used to continue building Quasqueton, but there are a few items still there}} After this adventure the two disappeared into their fortress again continuing to venture forth for adventure from time to time. Most of the stories about them tell of this period and how they accumulating more an more wealth (while simultaneouly building upon their reputations). It is in these stories that the other people who are commonly associated with Rogahn and Zelligar begin to appear. Erig "the Brave", son of Rogahn's childhood friend Darren Boras (or {{Toras}}, though about 70% of all references use the former), student and ally of Rogahn and Captain of The Guard of their army of henchmen. Marevak, trusted advisor to both, and apprentice to Zelligar. Melissa "the Fair" {{Ashbridge}}, the young, beautiful and capable woman who won the heart of Rogahn and charmed the reluctant Zelligar into a warm and lasting friendship. Although these three must have been much younger than the two heros, the stories tell of the extreme devotion between all five, and how they lived, loved and adventured together during much of the next decade. The latest known stories about Rogahn and Zelligar tell of their decision to foray into the Broken Lands in an attempt to eradicate the looming Orc meanace in the north. Taking most of their henchmen and associates along in a great armed band, the two personages disappeared into the forbidding alien lands. {{They left a "skeleton" crew behind (litterally, with a few zombies thrown in), though they didn't leave much to guard. They fully intended to return. See information on Melissa for more details}} As to the current wherabouts of these great men and their followers, virtually nothing in known. There are no futher stories about the heros after this time, and the stories we do have tell only of their "wonderous" army and their "determined" march into the Broken Lands. Nothing is said of the results or if they ever returned. There are a few reports of wandering bards singing songs that tell of some great battle where Rogahn and Zelligar met their demise, but as yet there are few details and no substantiation of the story. If it is true, this rumoured clash must have occurred some years ago, as the existing stories date their initial excursion to somewhere around 979/80. The only thing certain is that Rogahn and Zelligar have not been heard of or from since. - -------- Essay #2 - -------- The following is a well constructed essay from one of my better students which discuses the interesting stories of Rogahn's mistress. I felt it deserved to be included with my scrolls. A. Tallah Melissa "the Fair" Being an Exposition about the Beautious Mistress of Rogahn the Fearless Written by Sarah Veckar, this 8th day of Sviftmont, 997 Class: "Darokinian Legend and History" Professor: Master Anzer Tallah The tales of Rogahn the Fearless mostly tell of his own wonderous deeds, and those of his companion Zelligar the Unknown. However, there are a small number of others who are frequently mentioned in conjunction with these heros in many of the later stories. This exposition shall discuss what is commonly believed about his mistress, Melissa "the Fair" {{Ashbridge}}, and will attempt to sift some of the facts from the embellishments. To begin, the stories frequently tell that Melissa exhibited an incredible prowess in fighting and most accounts claim that this, in combination with her beauty, was how she managed to capture the heart of her lover. The most frequently recorded account claims that he came upon her in the woods as she was in the midst of an encounter with two large, unfriendly Orcs and as a result of their victory he became enamoured of this woman who was both beautiful and capable in a fight. A few of the stories tell how she had managed to kill both Orcs before he had a chance to "rescue" her, but it is more frequently claimed, and therefore believed, that he came to her aid, and fought by her side. {{The truth is that she managed to kill the first Orc as Rogahn joined the foray and then the two of them finished off the second one. The Orcs were loners, acting as bandits on the road from Corunglain to Darokin.}} Though they were years apart in age (Typically, the stories claim that Melissa was but 17 or {{18}} while Rogahn was somewhere between 46 and 50 {{47}}), it is said they loved each other deeply and truly. Because of this, and because of her grace and charm, she built a strong friendship with Rogahn's longtime companion, Zelligar. Eventually, her name is mentioned as frequently as the two heros in stories of their conquests and adventures throughout the known world. There are a few accounts which place her at the famous battle where Zelligar and Rogahn defeated the Orc invasion near Ardelphia, but this is unlikely since the accounts of the lover's first meeting would place it between 5 and 10 years after this date. {{This is true - she met him 7 years after the battle with the Orcs}} Several stories say that Melissa's feminine influence brought some beauty to the subterranean stronghold she agreed to live in with her lover. There are other rumours that she even orchestrated a small number of gala dinners for a select number of Darokinian nobility who were whisked into the fortress by magical means, though this does seem unlikely as Rogahn and Zelligar had always prefered their relative solitude to associations with regular society. Nonetheless, Melissa's presence in their hidden fortress must have changed much of the "household" workings of Wizard, Warior and Henchmen. {{The stories of the parties are true. There were about three or four of them. The guests were brought in and out by a combination of magic and planning. It is because Melissa wanted fancy balls that the throneroom was dressed up slightly so it would fill the need for a ballroom}} As an interesting final note, Melissa is not directly mentioned in any of the stories regarding the last known excursion of Rogahn and Zelligar into the Broken Lands. This is unusual, especially since the two other people who are frequently mentioned in the stories (Erig, the Captain of the Guard, and Marevek, the Esteemed Advisor) are discussed in the majority: Erig directs the army, of course, as it enters the Orc's homelands, and Marevek remained in Darokin to wait for the hero's return or word of their demise in any one of a number of cities and towns {{he waited in Corunglain}}. As puzzling and vague as this is, it is generally agreed by scholars that she must have gone into the Broken Lands with the army, as the stories always say that, after they met, she always joined Rogahn on his adventures. There appear to be few reasons why she would not have gone, and so I must also agree with the general concensus that she is as missing as Rogahn, Zelligar and Erig have been these past 20 years. {{This is NOT True - she did NOT actually go with them. See the next section for details}} - -------------------------- Further Details for the DM - -------------------------- Mereth Ashbridge, Marek Vak and Erok Toras of House Ashbridge Zelligar and Rogahn have, in fact, died, and so has their advisor Maravek. Rogahn's mistress, Melissa the Fair, and his captain of the guard, Erig the Brave, are, however, alive and well. It is not generally known that Melissa did not journey with her beloved and his companions on their final journey. Melissa was 23 at the time (Vatermont, 979) and she had just recently realized that she had conceived Rogahn's child. Rogahn, the father to be, was ecstatic, but he was also concerned for her safety and that of their unborn child. For this reason, he requested that Melissa travel with them only as far as Corunglain, where she would wait with Maravek, who would also serve as her personal aid. She agreed that this was reasonable, even though she truly wanted to ride into battle at her lover's side. Just before they were to leave Quasqueton, Rogahn asked Zelligar if there was any way to find out what the child would be before they left. Zelligar agreed and achieved this aim by casting Contact Outer Plane. Though he was only granted three questions, the results were pleasing to all: the child would be a boy, his best assets would be his intelligence and his beauty, and he would live a long and prosperous life. Rogahn was happy to have an heir, Zelligar thought that an intelligent boy could provide him with another apprentice (besides Maravek) and Melissa was pleased that her son would have a long life. Together, Rogahn and Melissa decided to name the boy Jorn, after Rogahn's long dead father. On Vatermont 28th the army marched to Corunglain, where the army of Zelligar and Rogahn left Melissa and Marevak with high hopes and some teary-eyed good-byes. Alas, the only member of that mighty army that Melissa and Marevak ever saw again was Rogahn's trusty captain and friend, Erig. Nine months after leaving Corunglain, Erig had stayed in the camp to fix a broken saddle strap when Zelligar and Rogahn marched off to their final battle. Within hours a stream of wounded men started to trickle into the camp. It had been a massacre. A lucky shot had taken Zelligar through the lung. Without his magic, the tide quickly turned, and the Orcs had started to slaughter their men. One man had seen Rogahn run to Zelligar's side to comfort him as he died. Soon after Rogahn gave the word to retreat and so those men who were wounded but could still run left as a few stalwart fighters, Rogahn included, tried to keep the Orcs off of them. Just then, as Erig was trying to take the camp apart so they could flee, four men straggled in with a wounded Rogahn in their arms. Rogahn, who had taken an arrow in the side, told Erig to forget the camp, and get everyone who could ride on a horse and headed out of the badlands as fast as possible. The Orcs were only minutes behind them. "Leave me", he said, "I can't run, but I can still give those monsters a fight to remember." Then he held out a golden ring and a silver pendant (Zelligar's) and told Erig to return to Melissa. "The ring is the key to my Strength, and the pendant is the key to Zelligar's secrets. She will know how to use them." handing the items to Erig, Rogahn then added, "Tell her how much I love her, and how I wish I could watch Jorn grow. Promise me that you will take these to her and that you will do whatever you can to keep her and Jorn safe. Now go." Taking the ring and pendant, Erig promised to do as he was asked and then rode like a madman to Corunglain. He nearly killed his horse in the process, but he made it back alive. Melissa wept, and accepted the tokens. The ring is a "Hero's Ring" (+2 to Strength, +1 to Dexterity, +1 to Charisma while worn). The pendant serves as a magical "key" that will open Zelligar's permanent Spell Books by being placed over top of a similar design on their covers. Originally, Melissa chose to wear the ring herself, however she did not want to return to the stronghold with a babe in arms and with memories of Rogahn to haunt her, and so Zelligar's secrets would have to wait. Since then, Erig and Marevak stayed with her, and helped to her raise Jorn. Over time, Erig and Melissa fell in love though they never married. As a result of their relationship, Erig took on the role of Jorn's father while Marevak acted as an older Uncle. Jorn was eventually told who his real father was. Jorn is unfortunatly not as strong or healthy as either his mother or his father, though he is incredibly intelligent and amazingly handsome. Because her son was obviously weaker in body than in mind, Melissa gave him his father's ring for protection, and then asked Marevak to teach him the ways of magic. (He is now 19 and at the 4th level of mastery in magic.) Because she lost Rogahn, Melissa has always been very close to her son, and tends to keep him close to her, rarely letting him go anywhere without herself or Erig to protect him. Jorn loves his mother dearly, but he often wishes she would "give him more space" and let him experience more of the world on his own. As a way to survive in the Mercantile world of the Darokin cities, Melissa, Erig and Marevak took up roles as Art and Antiquities Collectors/Dealers. To help themselves blend in to Corunglain society and to hide their identities, the three friends assumed pseudonyms: Mereth Ashbridge, Erok Toras and Marek Vak. They have been quite successful in their new life, with wealthy clients to be found throughout Western Darokin. After a few Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:20:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #79 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 51a3fcce4a8338f5b399101b2bdb6ff8 Status: RO years, Meilissa and Erig moved a significant portion of their operations to Akesoli (Melissa preferred the lakeshore environment of Akesoli to the arid plains of Corunglain), and Marevak stayed in Corunglain to handle affairs there. Journeys were frequently made by the friends between these cities in order to allow Jorn to receive further training in magic and to catch up on old times. Most of the dealings of the Ashbridge House of Art and Antiquities are done in one of the following four cities: Akesoli, Darokin City, Akorros and Corunglain. It has been 19 years since Erig returned to Corunglain, and Marevak, already old then, has just died a peacful death in the last year. Unfortunately, this means that Jorn no longer has a private teacher in the magic arts. As a result, Melissa is now ready to return to the stronghold to reclaim Zelligar's spell books. However, it has been discovered that many of the protections on Quasqueton have failed over time, and it is now over-run with all sorts of monsters. Melissa does not want to leave Jorn on his own, and refuses to take him with her into such a dangerous place. She also doesn't want Erig to go because she is afraid that he will not return to her, just like Rogahn. Thus, she has decided to hire a number of adventurers (the PC's) to go in and get the items she wants using a small subterfuge. Her plain is to claim to have "discovered" an old diary belonging to an associate Marek Vak and have found that was in fact Marevak. She is going to assume that the PC's don't know squat about the Art and Antiquities business and will modify her relationship with Marek Vak for the purpose of this subterfuge. There are two items that Melissa wants: All of Zelligar's spell books, which she want for Jorn's use; and a small, ornate chest full of momentos and letters from Rogahn. Erig and Melissa also know that there is a hidden treasure room in the unfinished second level of the Stronghold (room 54), and are somewhat interested in what may still be there. Tell the following to the players when they are being briefed by "Mereth & Erok": [[ED Note: The following 'boxed text' served to introduce the PC's to their role in this module --JAMM]] - ---Begin Boxed Text--- "Mereth" (Melissa): Being buyers and sellers of fine art and antiquities we are always travelling, looking for items that we or many of our clients may be interested in. About a year ago, we went to Corunglain and discoverd that our associate, Marek Vak, another well known dealer in antiquities and magic, had apparently died in his sleep. After his death had been discovered, the city found that no one knew who his relatives were or where they might be located. There was also no know will. As a result, the city had taken control of the estate and was auctioning off his wares and personal belongings. We attended the auction and managed to purchase a few items at a very good price. One item in particular was a clerk's desk which had been a personal possesion of his. "Erok" (Erig): Very nice, finely crafted desk too. We'd admired it previously, even tried to buy it from him, but he refused to part with it. Something about being part of his past life. Never did explain that. It needed some repairs too, that's why we managed to purchase it for so little. Same with some of the other items we bought. M: Exactly. So, we set ourselves up in a small place in that city and started cleaning, repairing and re-finishing anything that needed it before trying to sell it or move it to our home city, Akesoli. While he was cleaning this desk, Erok accidentally triggered a secret compartment which had been overlooked when the desk had been cleared out before the auction. Inside the compartment, he found some Journals, maps and other papers. E: It appears that our friend Marek Vak was actually Marevak, trusted advisor to Rogahn the Fearless and Zelligar the Unknown. M: We've read through the Journals, which document much of his life after the date when he was apparently asked to stay in Corunglain and wait for the return of the army. After some time he realized that they were not going to return, and chose to build a new life for himself, as Marek Vak rather than attempting to return to the stronghold. Much of the information was interesting but useless to us. However, in his earliest Journal's he often discusses the reasons why returning to the fortress could be beneficial, mentioning several items which he could reclaim, some of which interest us ... and some of our clients ... a great deal. We want you to attempt to retrieve some of these items on our behalf. We have selected you from all the applicants we have seen because we feel that, together, you have the skills and power necessary to do this job. It most likely won't be easy, the fortress has been abandoned for close to 20 years now, and is likly filled with newer denizens, ones who will not appreciate your trespassing anymore than Rogahn and Zelligar would have. As for payment, we will provide some money to outfit you with horses,.a cart, and other reasonable equipment. Whatever you bring back, asside from the items we are asking for, is yours, but we request the oportunity to see it before anyone else so that we might offer to purchase it, for a reasonable price, if it appeals to us. Are there any questions? - ---End Boxed Text--- After answering the questions that they may have, make sure that the PC's know which items the Ashbridge's want, and especially that they should NOT attempt to open the spell books due to a deadly magical enchantment on them. Melissa might also mention the potential "treasure room" on the bottom level. Now, give them the maps and then get the PC's to determine what items they would like to add to their equipment. If anything seems unreasonable, have Melissa veto it. Then let them travel to the fortress: 5 days to Akoros, 1 day to Crowlerd and 2 days to the site. - ------------------------ Suggested Module Changes - ------------------------ Zelligar, being a high level Mage, should have several Spellbooks with a fair number of suitable spells inside them. The Ashbridges should mention how many the 'diary' said there should be. Place one of the books in Zelligar's Chambers (room 5), one in Marevak's Chambers (room 32) and any others in Zelligar's Workroom (room 8) or Laboratory (room 9). The higher level ones (most of the ones found in the Workroom and/or Laboratory) should be sealed with a Magic that can only be successfully opened using Zelligar's amulet (now worn by Jorn). Something VERY BAD should happen to PC's who attempt to open the sealed Spellbooks without returning them to Melissa first. Because Melissa is now supposed to be a good fighter, and not someone who was helpless and rescued by Rogahn, the tapestry in her Chamber (room 24) must be redesigned as follows: - ---Begin Boxed Text--- A small tapestry, measuring 3' x 4' hangs on the east wall. It depicts a handsome and robust warrior fighting back to back with a beautiful warrior maiden, both in a fighting pose and with swords in their hands. The fight is set in a burning village, two large orcs are attacking our hero and heroine, numerous dead combatants litter the ground around them, and a horde of ominous-looking enemies view the scene from afar. Embroidered in gold cloth at the top of the scene are the words: "Melissa, the greatest of all my treasures." The tapestry is within a wooden frame, and is firmly anchored to the wall. It cannot be removed without damaging it, in which case it will only carry a value of 40g.p. Note that the likeless of "Melissa" is very good. Give any PC who studies the tapestry for a few minutes some chance of making the connection between Melissa and Mereth. - ---End Boxed Text--- Also in Melissa's Chambers (room 24), add the small chest that "Mereth" requested: - ---Begin Boxed Text--- Under the bed is a small chest about 2' x 1' x 1'. It is ornately and finely carved with a detailed floral motif. If it is examined, the name "Nayetar" will be discovered carfully etched into the bottom. Nayetar was a very well known craftsman from Thyatis, whose carved furnature is highly prized in the known world. (PC's with knowledge of antiquities, furniture or Art should be able to make the connection). This is the box that "Mereth" and "Erok" asked for - inside it contains several love letters, a few love tokens, a small vial of perfume and some pressed flowers - various momentos given to Melissa from Rogahn. - ---End Boxed Text--- Add something worthwhile to the contents of the Treasure Room on the lower level (room 54) to make the journy into that part of the dungeon worthwhile for the PC's. - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:52:36 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:40:15 -0500 (EST) au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) writes: >*********************** Quasi-Canon Material Survey ******************** >Please indicate whether you use the following materials in your campaign: >CULTURES - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER YOU USE THE FOLLOWING CULTURES IN YOUR >CAMPAIGN WORLD >The Darine 3. Don't know about them >The Ungolwaith 3. Don't know about them >Kargoyles (did I get this right Marco?) 2. Do not use >Lhomarrians and Selhomarr 3. Don't know about them >Kaarjala 3. Don't know about it >MOrient (I know it's quiet right now, but there was a lot of stuff on the >list about it) 3. Don't know about it >TIMELINES/HISTORICAL EVENTS - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER THE FOLLOWING EVENTS >OR TIMELINES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN YOUR CAMPAIGN >The Carnifex Tyranny 3. Don't know enough about it >The Carnifex of Y'hog >3. Don't know enough about it >Varellyan Timeline 3. Don't know enough about it >Hyborian Timeline 3. Don't know enough about it >PERSONAL PREFERENCES - PLEASE INDICATE YOUR CHOICE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS >Races/Cultures 1. More new races/cultures >"Lost History" (by this I mean details on dead cultures and such) 1. More lost history >General Impressions - how do you feel about quasi-canon material being discussed on the list? >1. Quasi-canon material is fine for discussion >Final comments - please write below any messages and such that you wish to >share with those who work on quasi-canon material: 1) You forgot to mention my Undersea timeline. 2) However, quasi-canon material should be identified as such. >Anyhow, here's my contribution to the quasi-canon debate. I really think >we should all talk about this, as there seems to be a lot of confusion concerning what it is, and whether or not people are quoting it as though >it were full canon. >Geoff >-- >Geoff Gander, BA 97 >Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:35:03 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Here are my respones with commentary ... note that some of this stuff I have only recently begun working into my campaign. >*********************** Quasi-Canon Material Survey ******************** >Please indicate whether you use the following materials in your campaign: >CULTURES - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER YOU USE THE FOLLOWING CULTURES IN YOUR CAMPAIGN WORLD >The Darine >1. Use (so far I have only used these a couple of times. I like the possibility that they are related in some way to the Vistani of Ravenloft. There have been two Darine PCs in my game: Ketske (which means mouse), a Darine thief in Glantri who works for the mysterious illusionist Rizzen khar Zz'akhophotz, based out of Vyonnes, and a Darine pirate named Drey Bardovitch who is one of the crew of the infamous Thad privateer The Infinity's Bastard, which has recently been the subject of a Black Seal Warrant that has driven them east to Trikelios to escape bounty-hunting rivals.) >The Ungolwaith >1. Use >4. I modified them to fit my world the ungolwaith/sand folk strangely resemble a race called Death Troopers that my younger brother created at about age 7 or so (before he or I knew anything about DA3). Anyway I like the web-canon about the Adri Varma, but have modified it quite a bit. IMC there are a band of renegade Flaems, outlaws from Glantri, who have lived on the plateau at least since the establishment of Nouvelle Averoigne. They are called Warlocks colloquially but their clan name is Fyrblaed. Their leader is a powerful mage of unknown origin whom they call Mackabel (others call him Macabellus, while the Urduk and Huleans call him Maka Vellu). Also, I at one point began developing the idea of a dinosaur national monument style demilich in Ungolwaith country ... a giant sentient magic using tyrannosaurus skull, left over from carnifex days, trapped in the stone of a cliff face, whose range is thus limited but who commands quasi-religious devotion from certain bands of corrupted ungolwaith. the relationship between the spider folk and the warlocks i haven't quite worked out yet. At present Mackabel and his minions are allied with Hosadus against Glantri. >Kargoyles (did I get this right Marco?) 3. never heard of 'em. >Lhomarrians and Selhomarr >1. Use still not sure how to work these into present day campaigns ( i rarely run anything in the HW) but i consider them canon and want to use them in play. >Kaarjala >4. I modified it to fit my world i had already had the idea of Finns in Norwold before I saw this info. Some also live on the Island of Garur in the Sea of Storms to the east of the northern reaches, and there are important planar gates here. one famous hero is Hankai Ossaiar, a Kaarjalan-Garurian snow-ranger who has a trained remorhaz as an ally. he has worked for the Callarii wizard Elgalan Alducam on dragon-subduing expeditions to the Wyrmsteeth before. >MOrient (I know it's quiet right now, but there was a lot of stuff on the list about it) still not sure enough on what exactly has been developed ... a lot of stuff was never finalized or clearly placed on the map. i am open to new things however. >TIMELINES/HISTORICAL EVENTS - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER THE FOLLOWING EVENTS OR TIMELINES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN YOUR CAMPAIGN >The Carnifex Tyranny >1. Include in campaign one of the best bits of new canon, IMHO >The Carnifex of Y'hog >1. Include in campaign as above. >Varellyan Timeline >1. Include in campaign i consider it canon but haven't actually used it in a game at all. >Hyborian Timeline >1. Include in campaign still, most PCs dont go up there. >PERSONAL PREFERENCES - PLEASE INDICATE YOUR CHOICE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS >Races/Cultures i think it best if we only develop new cultures when necessary ... but it's hard to say there's a natural limit with a world that's already so fantastical. >"Lost History" (by this I mean details on dead cultures and such) >1. More lost history look at how much has been written about the history of the RW ... why should mystara have any less? >General Impressions - how do you feel about quasi-canon material being discussed on the list? >1. Quasi-canon material is fine for discussion those who DON'T talk about quasi canon material should be locked in the dungeons under the Temple of Greatrealm and slowly devoured by green slime over the span of centuries. without new canon, what's the point? >Final comments - please write below any messages and such that you wish to share with those who work on quasi-canon material: do your homework. read what others have done carefully and respect it. be a good scholar so that what you contribute can be truly new and avoid confusion or redundancy. be creative. kick ass and take names. ignore TSR and copyright law except where absolutely necessary. share your imagination with all. >Anyhow, here's my contribution to the quasi-canon debate. I really think we should all talk about this, as there seems to be a lot of confusion concerning what it is, and whether or not people are quoting it as though it were full canon. why should material i worked hard to create have any less status than other, less carefully developed, more shoddily edited, incoherent and inconsistent information that TSR charged us all a bunch of money to have access to, only to find out that we had to spend our precious time rewriting it's flaws and figuring out their twisted logic? The quasi-canon developed by people such as Mystaros, Geoff, Fabrizio, Cthulhudrew, and others (no offense intended if I left your name off) is unquestionably better material than much of what TSR has put out ... why SHOULDN'T it be canon? Just because we don't have to pay for it? I've got to stand on my head to understand that one. peace, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #79 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:48:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #80 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Monday, February 16 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 080 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Cyclopedia classes... some more... Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis Re: [MYSTARA] - Cyclopedia classes... some more... [MYSTARA] - Online City Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - Some Finish words too? Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania [MYSTARA] - About X1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:20:05 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors ><< After doing my initial Underocean genealogy, I looked up the Kopru. They >are described both in X1 (initial appearance) and in the Creature Catalogs as being Amphibians- not reptiles or mollusks. >> >Once again a private idea was handled as an official. We must be careful in suchg things. My post is no more about a private idea than yours. As I've said, it's clear FROM THE DESCRIPTION that the term amphibian in this context DOES NOT MEAN they are descended from frogs, or that they are not molluskoid in character. I am always careful to pay attention to official canon. I would appreciate it if you can in turn be careful to think before you speak and not make ridiculous statements such as the one at the top, nor to accuse me of trying to change what has been written before ... all I have done is to logically interpret that information so that it makes sense ... which you seem somewhat unwilling to do. m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:28:32 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< Anyhow, here's my contribution to the quasi-canon debate. I really think >we should all talk about this, as there seems to be a lot of confusion concerning what it is, and whether or not people are quoting it as though it were full canon. >> >This is a real problem: Who decides what to become net-canon? I have not read all net material, but there are some inconsistencies. What we need, is a group, a council, to decide about such things. I'm sorry, but you, the Net Almanac authors, are predestinated to fulfill this role. Again, I disagree with you. It sounds like you are very concerned about having principles of authority .... what is official, who is in charge, etc. It is my experience in life that the only way to really have meaningful sharing of anything is to be both anarchic and communal. The practical truth is that each of us decides what is canon, and if we don't use each other's stuff, then we're just not sharing each other's worlds (which is fine, but not as much fun, IMHO). What is really at issue is whether we can make our material fit together, and the only reasonable way to do this is to pay attention to what others have written and to be able to engage in sustained reasoned debate. You cannot rely on an authority to make your work consistent if you are not yourself capable; all you are really asking them to do then is to rewrite what you've written. When I post things to the net, I try AS HARD AS I POSSIBLY CAN to pay attention to ALL previously established material, even to the point of working out in the best possible fashion the inconsistencies between various forms of net canon (BTW, one way of dealing with this would be to compile ALL the quasi-canon timelines into one to check for flaws ... maybe someday in the summer i might begin this). i am always willing to change what i have done if ANYBODY can point out to me what is wrong with it, but I see no reason to trust in a small council more than i trust in the average member of the list. democracy is what you make of it, and so is Mystara. peace & anarchy, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Feb 1998 23:40:50 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cyclopedia classes... some more... >Mystics EX AC MV #AT DAM ABI >1 0 9 120 1 1d4 >2 2,000 >3 4,000 8 130 1 1d4+1 >4 8,000 Awareness >5 16,000 7 140 1 1d6 >6 32,000 >7 64,000 6 150 1 1d6+1 >8 120,000 Heal Self >9 240,000 5 160 1 1d8 >10 360,000 >11 480,000 4 170 2 1d8+1 >12 600,000 Speak w Animals >13 720,000 3 180 2 1d10 >14 840,000 >15 960,000 2 190 2 1d10+1 >16 1,080,000 Resistance >17 1,200,000 1 200 2 1d12 >18 1,320,000 >19 1,440,000 0 210 2 1d12+1 >20 1,560,000 Speak w Anyone >21 1,680,000 -1 220 3 2d6+2 >22 1,800,000 >23 1,920,000 -2 230 3 2d8 >24 2,040,000 Mind Block >25 2,160,000 -3 240 3 2d10 >26 2,280,000 >27 2,400,000 -4 250 3 2d12 >28 2,520,000 Blankout >29 2,640,000 -5 260 4 3d6+2 >30 2,760,000 >31 2,880,000 -6 280 4 3d8 >32 3,000,000 Gentle Touch >33 3,120,000 -7 300 4 3d10 >34 3,240,000 >35 3,360,000 -8 320 4 3d12 >36 3,480,000 Survival I know what is the EX column is, but the rest? I don't know very well the Mystic but I think that a wizard in 14th level can be a Mystic. I know almost nothing about this new character. There are some more, the thief can be an avenger (if I translate it with the correct word from hebrew). Can you write me about this? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:25:24 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis At 05:41 PM 1/31/98 -0700, you wrote: >On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Daly wrote: >>But is there a canon description of Citadel anywhere? >It is mentioned both in the Player's Guide to Alphatia as well as the DM's guide in the DotE boxed set. I think it is also mentioned in the PWA series (it is the capital city, after all). It is something on the order of a mile high or so, with the Queen's Palace being at the very pinnacle, and residences all along the outside. It is constantly being expanded, with new construction being built over the old, such that there are now centuries old ruins all throughout the interior of Citadel, making it very dangerous to go into the interior much. I am currently coming up with some ideas for detailing Bettelyn and I am going to slap what I come up with onto the list. As far as canonical description goes...there is only a PWA description that refers to Citadel as being a single building the size of a mountain. What you have said here though sounds interesting. Does it come from your campaign? Do you have info on the kingdom that you have fleshed out and would like to share? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:29:40 -0700 From: "Joe Gerber" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cyclopedia classes... some more... - -----Original Message----- From: 3@giga.com.ar <3@giga.com.ar> To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Sunday, February 15, 1998 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cyclopedia classes... some more... >>Mystics EX AC MV #AT DAM >ABI >>1 0 9 120 1 1d4 >I know what is the EX column is, but the rest? I don't know very well AC - Armor Class (using OD&D base of 9 = normal unarmored) MV - Movement #AT - Number of attacks/round DAM - Damage/attack ABI - Special ability >the Mystic but I think that a wizard in 14th level can be a Mystic. I The Mystic class was first introduced in the Master Set DM's book (as an NPC class, with an option to make it a PC class). It is a seperate class entirely (you might be thinking of the AD&D2 Wizzard Kit). >know almost nothing about this new character. There are some more, the thief can be an avenger (if I translate it with the correct word from hebrew). Can you write me about this? Close - an Avenger is a Chaotic fighter 9not thief) who swears allegience to a Chaotic church. (Essentially, a Chaotic Paladin.) Joseph M. Gerber jgerber@theriver.com No home page (yet) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:45:02 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [MYSTARA] - Online City Hello, There has been talk on some other AD&D lists about taking a city in the setting and developing it. That is, the list members would submit their creations concerning people and places of that city. What do you think, maybe we could do this with some Mystaran city, too (why not jump on the bandwagon ;) It should be a city which is not well-detailed but still holds interest for most Mystaran fans. Here are some suggestions: Kerendas Edairo Newkirk Helskir Alpha Oceansend Landfall Freiburg Kelvin Ylaruam Rafielton (don't know how well this is described in GAZ5) Norrvik Zeaburg Soderfjord Any of Darokin's 'big five' Sayr Ulan Tanakumba Any of the City-States or another city on the Savage Coast. So, what do you think? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:59:32 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Immortal Candidates On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Andrew Morrow wrote: >Yah, you guys are probably right, the Atzanteotl idea is far less convoluted. But I like Masawu (whine!). The one question that needs answering is how Travestis would have ever heard of Atzanteotl. Travestis has to potition Atzanteotl specifically. Atzanteotls only real presence in the Known World pre- Wrath was the Tiger Clan. Oh, and the temple full of Orcs in Oenkemar. AND some Shadow Elves secretly follow Atzanteotl. Travestis could very well have contact with them. >I hadnt considered that possible ramification of the conversion of the NoS. Personally, Im rather sceptical about the whole thing. That particular part of the end of WotI seemed a little silly to me. It very conveniently lets Rad off the hook and defeats the Brotherhood of the Shadow in one fell swoop. Its just all a little too easy. I personally never liked the transformation to Entropy. I was fond of the Nucleus as it was. IMC it's goin to be like this: the Nucleus is still an Energy artifact, but it feeds on the power of Entropy. This places Energy and Entropy in conflict over who should control the artifact. The Transcend Life Force spell can now make either Energy or Entropic Immortals. A nice Etienne vs. Brannart setup, eh? >I think that G:KoM says that Synn isnt aware of the NoS yet. Apparently her Immortal patron isnt talking. (I wonder why...) As for Eridna, shell I don't remember, is it mentioned who is Synn's patron? If it's Thanatos, he might be more interested in letting Brannart try for Immortality first, and let Synn prove herself first (rather than risk them tearing at each other). >have to find someone she trusts to run things in Alphatia while shes gone first. Good luck. Hmm, Eldrethila perhaps? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:10:19 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Some Finish words too? On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Anias Pasi wrote: >It might be interesting to collect a small wordbook with all the word in all the languages though...Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:48:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #80 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com I have an idea. What if we did a large word collection, translating, say, every equipment piece and every monster name (at least those translatable) in the Rules Cyclopedia? Then it could be collected and posted on someone's website. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:19:31 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Candidates ><< Ramose is a likely candidate, though I don't think he questing yet. He's >featured in the 1015 almanac. >> >BTW, when will Ramose finish his quest to regain the grace of his Immortal Patron? AFAIK he is undertaking such a quest for the last years. I just can say, wait for the 1015 almanac to see what's happening in Nithia, and to Ramose in particular. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:17:28 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors >This is a real problem: Who decides what to become net-canon? I have not read all net material, but there are some inconsistencies. What we need, is a group, a council, to decide about such things. I'm sorry, but you, the Net Almanac authors, are predestinated to fulfill this role. Don't know if it's really a good idea. I mean, the net-canon council is probably necessary otherwise in a few years we'll start discussing about 100 different Mystaras without a common line. But having the Net Almanac team as "supreme judges" is something I don't like at all. Just my opinion. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:15:45 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< What does the word Lich originally mean? >> >The first appearance in the German D&D version was as lich (Companion Set). In the Master Set it was named "Leichnam". "leichnam" Could you give me a direct translation of this name if possible? Thanks. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:14:07 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >At 11:46 12-02-98 -0500, you wrote: >>On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >>>What does the word Lich originally mean? >>Lich meant "corpse" in the 12th-13th centuries, which is why the gate through which funeral processions passed into the churchyard was known as the "lichgate". >This is funny. The Danish word for corpse is lig. Funny I didnt think about this before. When you pronounce it in German it makes much more sence than with the English pronounciation. What is the danish name for Lich (if any) The norwegian D&d rules never got beyond the Expert set.. Håvard ¨ *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:31:16 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Okay. My answers to the Survey. >*********************** Quasi-Canon Material Survey ******************** >Please indicate whether you use the following materials in your campaign: >CULTURES - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER YOU USE THE FOLLOWING CULTURES IN YOUR CAMPAIGN WORLD >The Darine >1. Use They haven´t been introduced to my campaign yet, but they might be real soon. >The Ungolwaith >1. Use They exist in my campaign though have not been encountered by my players´ characters >Kargoyles (did I get this right Marco?) >1. Use Well. Im thinkingh of using them real soon. >Lhomarrians and Selhomarr >1. Use I consider it canon. >Kaarjala >1. Use They are probably there. I haven´t developed Norwold much for my campaign yet. >MOrient (I know it's quiet right now, but there was a lot of stuff on the list about it) >3. Don't know about it I know the project is under process, but I dont know enough to decide whether I should use it. >TIMELINES/HISTORICAL EVENTS - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER THE FOLLOWING EVENTS OR TIMELINES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN YOUR CAMPAIGN >The Carnifex Tyranny >1. Include in campaign >The Carnifex of Y'hog >1. Include in campaign >Varellyan Timeline >1. Include in campaign >Hyborian Timeline >3. Don't know enough about it I´ll have to cheack this again. I´ll probably use it. >PERSONAL PREFERENCES - PLEASE INDICATE YOUR CHOICE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS >Races/Cultures >1. More new races/cultures I dont like the idea of overpopulating mystara with loads of races, But I´d love to see new cultures and developement of the races and cultures we already have. >"Lost History" (by this I mean details on dead cultures and such) >1. More lost history >General Impressions - how do you feel about quasi-canon material being discussed on the list? >1. Quasi-canon material is fine for discussion >Final comments - please write below any messages and such that you wish to share with those who work on quasi-canon material: Go for it! I think this is the most interesting feature of this list. Im trying to fit the Mystaros timelines in with the Y´hog and the Varelya and all that. I include everything I like into my campaign and there is a real lot of cool stuff already been made. I´m looking forward to see more and perhaps post some of my own stuff, which is currently a vague mass inside my brain... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:34:57 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >Hello, >There has been talk on some other AD&D lists about taking a city in the setting and developing it. That is, the list members would submit their creations concerning people and places of that city. What do you think, maybe we could do this with some Mystaran city, too (why not jump on the bandwagon ;) It should be a city which is not well-detailed but still holds interest for most Mystaran fans. Here are some suggestions: Is this like a MUSH or a very well developed city(text material, which can be used in your campaign)? I´m more insterested in the latter, but either sounds like fun. Of the ones you suggested I´d prefer these: >Kerendas >Sayr Ulan Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:59:14 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania In a message dated 98-02-14 21:14:23 EST, you write: << >I like the idea. But I have a problem. I have adopted a template that I used >in detailing the Hinterland Clans, the Emerond, and the Milenian City/States. I like the idea too! BTW - What did you put down for the City States? Perhaps we can compare notes and such.....? Geoff >> Rough overveiw of the Milenian City/States Obviously, the city/states are based on Greece. However, I have them portrayed as a mix of the period of decline and a hint of the period leading up to RW Greek Golden Age. This is to demonstrate the "empire lost" aspect as well as form a basis for a potentially new dynasty. The biggest problem facing the city/states is the apparent disunity. Locaction, surrounding humanoids, and terrain constrictions make interaction difficult. Plus there are social aspects that make unity and cooperation a factor. Each city/state is based upon a RW Greek City/State (Athens, Sparta, etc). I have also included variations of Crete, Troy, Tyre, and Macedonia for added character. Militarily the city/states suck. Well, actually they are more defense oriented. Numbers and leadership limit their potential to a defensive nature. IMO the city/states need a hero type to bring the various sects into unity. And given the Greek background, a Prophecy seems appropriate to proclaim the arrival of a "Perseus"-like hero. And as with Perseus elements act against him. Though I have not worked out a Prophecy in detail, the basis will be that the hero's rise (as well as the city/states) will be at the cost of at least one of the current city/states. Naturally, the effeced ruler and his supporters will seek to stop the budding hero. And in steps of Perseus, the actions that the antagonists take form and mold the hero into assuming the role of "hero". I love irony. The City/states mostly depend on their agricultural base. These farms are terraced fields on the surrounding hills around the city/state. However, most city/states do have a secondary economic boon. Mining, weapons, and such are primary ventures. Others depend on their location to afford added income. The quasi- Troy is strategically placed to act as a trade hub. The quasi-Tyre is placed in an oxbow of a river to control river traffic. The Milenian City/States are an old project of mine that I started after picking up The Milenian Empire and The Milenian Sceptor a few years back. As fate intervened, the project fell to the back burner. I restarted the project about a year ago. Mainly to help fill out Davania as a whole. However, the set aside pages in a spiral bound note book have been untouched. Only a few blanks have been filled in the templates. One question I have is the names. Is their any reason why the Milenian names of HW could not be used. With Alphatia, the names of towns and cities stayed as they were when it was in the KW. So technically, the Milenian (HW) capital's name of Corisa could be used as a name for one of the KW city/states. Then there are derivatives of the old Traldar settlements such as Krakatos. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:32:32 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania >One question I have is the names. Is their any reason why the Milenian names of HW could not be used. With Alphatia, the names of towns and cities stayed as they were when it was in the KW. So technically, the Milenian (HW) capital's name of Corisa could be used as a name for one of the KW city/states. Then there are derivatives of the old Traldar settlements such as Krakatos. I like what you have written. My suggestion would be to take the names and alter them slightly to differentiate between the two. The explanation being that the HW names are truer to the ancient pronunciation and spelling. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 1998 13:47:04 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - About X1 I'm traducing the X1 module from hebrew to spanish but, as usual, I have some problems and some doubts. Concerning to X1. The adventure is based on the idea of finding the black diamond (if I'm not wrong). But In the adventure book the diamond didn't appears, even in the Temple. Can anybody explain me what happened? Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #80 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:13:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #81 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Monday, February 16 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 081 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania Re: [MYSTARA] - About X1 Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - About X1 Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words [MYSTARA] - Fighting in the water Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City [none] [none] Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:33:20 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City << So, what do you think? >> Good idea, but why not an Alphatian city? I suggest Lakim on this island in the Lake Llyn. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:33:28 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania << One question I have is the names. Is their any reason why the Milenian names of HW could not be used. With Alphatia, the names of towns and cities stayed as they were when it was in the KW. So technically, the Milenian (HW) capital's name of Corisa could be used as a name for one of the KW city/states. Then there are derivatives of the old Traldar settlements such as Krakatos. >> No problem! Or better: Change the names a little bit as in the case of Hutaaka: Xyqata and Xytaqa. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:33:26 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors << Don't know if it's really a good idea. I mean, the net-canon council is probably necessary otherwise in a few years we'll start discussing about 100 different Mystaras without a common line. But having the Net Almanac team as "supreme judges" is something I don't like at all. Just my opinion. >> I can understand you, but your Net Almanac is net canon for sure. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:33:22 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors << I am always careful to pay attention to official canon. I would appreciate it if you can in turn be careful to think before you speak and not make ridiculous statements such as the one at the top, nor to accuse me of trying to change what has been written before ... all I have done is to logically interpret that information so that it makes sense ... which you seem somewhat unwilling to do. >> The problem is, that some guys on the MML use this idea as "official" in discussions, while other don't even like it. It is really a big problem. We can discuss such points, but sooner or later a decision has to be made. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:33:27 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words << "leichnam" Could you give me a direct translation of this name if possible? >> Guess... :-) No, I'll translate: It means "corpse" or "lig" in Danish. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:33:25 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors << Again, I disagree with you. It sounds like you are very concerned about having principles of authority .... what is official, who is in charge, etc. It is my experience in life that the only way to really have meaningful sharing of anything is to be both anarchic and communal. The practical truth is that each of us decides what is canon, and if we don't use each other's stuff, then we're just not sharing each other's worlds (which is fine, but not as much fun, IMHO). What is really at issue is whether we can make our material fit together, and the only reasonable way to do this is to pay attention to what others have written and to be able to engage in sustained reasoned debate. You cannot rely on an authority to make your work consistent if you are not yourself capable; all you are really asking them to do then is to rewrite what you've written. When I post things to the net, I try AS HARD AS I POSSIBLY CAN to pay attention to ALL previously established material, even to the point of working out in the best possible fashion the inconsistencies between various forms of net canon (BTW, one way of dealing with this would be to compile ALL the quasi-canon timelines into one to check for flaws ... maybe someday in the summer i might begin this). i am always willing to change what i have done if ANYBODY can point out to me what is wrong with it, but I see no reason to trust in a small council more than i trust in the average member of the list. democracy is what you make of it, and so is Mystara. peace & anarchy, m@2 >> I think that this is too simple. What if I as a master decide that IMC nothing of your stuff will be used. We start a big discussion only to discover that you are talking about your own canon which I don't accept? Such things have appeared already. We really should classify some net material as half official and the rest as inofficial. BTW, remember anybody, that TSR called the D&D products as "Product of Your imagination"? From this point it were not honest to sick the lawyers after us when we try to keep Mystara alive... O.k., it was only a thought. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:36:07 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania In a message dated 98-02-16 10:54:21 EST, you write: << >One question I have is the names. Is their any reason why the Milenian names >of HW could not be used. With Alphatia, the names of towns and cities stayed as they were when it was in the KW. So technically, the Milenian (HW) capital's name of Corisa could be used as a name for one of the KW city/states. Then there are derivatives of the old Traldar settlements such as >Krakatos. I like what you have written. My suggestion would be to take the names and alter them slightly to differentiate between the two. The explanation being that the HW names are truer to the ancient pronunciation and spelling. >> Thanks. What I was thinking about was this. Basically, the Immortals moved the worthy Milenians to HW. I was thinking of having them focus on the most worthy city/state. That city/state would be Corisa. Though I imagine other city/states could have been relocated (their populace). I'll pull out my Milenian material and see if any worthy candidates are feasible. The Immortals would recreate Corisa (plus any others) in HW. The citizens would take the initiative and rebuild the Milenian Empire. Without the stagnant city/states unity combined with common enemies make headway more easier to achieve. The original Corisa remains topside. But it is virtually abandonded. I haven't decided on having it resettled by nearby Milenians or leaving it as overgrown ruins. The latter could be instrumental in the Prophesized Hero. Magical arms and knowledge could be found there. You could include an Oracle as setting up shop among the ruins. Perhaps even humanoids and other nasty creatures are taking advantage of the ruins. However, they leave the Oracle and the Hermits alone as they are protected by powerful magics. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:37:28 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About X1 << I'm traducing the X1 module from hebrew to spanish but, as usual, I have some problems and some doubts. Concerning to X1. The adventure is based on the idea of finding the black diamond (if I'm not wrong). But In the adventure book the diamond didn't appears, even in the Temple. Can anybody explain me what happened? >> Not a diamond, but a pearl! Such a pearl is inside a big shell in the temple. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:48:02 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >"official" in discussions, while other don't even like it. It is really a big problem. We can discuss such points, but sooner or later a decision has to be made. And that decision is to be made at the individual campaign level. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:49:37 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About X1 At 01:47 PM 2/16/98 -0300, you wrote: >I'm traducing the X1 module from hebrew to spanish but, as usual, I have some problems and some doubts. >Concerning to X1. The adventure is based on the idea of finding the black diamond (if I'm not wrong). But In the adventure book the diamond didn't appears, even in the Temple. >Can anybody explain me what happened? >Jonathan Leibiusky >edu@giga.com.ar Actually it was a black pearl. And there was a pearl found in the lowest level of the temple...actually in a giant oyster or clam. So the goal of obtaining the pearl was a fairly loose one. I liked that aspect though. X1 was more of an adventure setting rather than an adventure. There was alot the party could do. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:56:20 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3AE2.A8937D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable That's really a great idea. Just how much detail are you suggesting we g= o into? If it's just a general bit of information (government, temples, inns, shops, personalities) I'd suggest we tackle more than one possibly with two or three list members on each. There are so many without detail= .=20 Come to think of it, even the ones everyone knows of aren't detail much beyond population size. I can only think of three that even have a map. - ------------------------------------------------------------- This has been a Galwylin=A9 Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3AE2.A8937D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable

That's really a great idea.  Just = how much detail are you suggesting we go into?  If it's just a = general bit of information (government, temples, inns, shops, = personalities) I'd suggest we tackle more than one possibly with two or = three list members on each.  There are so many without detail. =  Come to think of it, even the ones everyone knows of aren't detail = much beyond population size.  I can only think of three that even = have a = map.

-------------------------------------------------------------=
This has been a Galwylin=A9 Production

galwylin@airnet.net = (ICQ #6755972)
http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/


- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3AE2.A8937D60-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:03:34 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< "leichnam" >Could you give me a direct translation of this name if possible? >> >Guess... :-) >No, I'll translate: It means "corpse" or "lig" in Danish. Oh :P I though the ending "nam" had some meaning in itself. Guess not then, huh? See ya Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 1998 17:18:52 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Fighting in the water The players can fight under the water? How much time can a player swiming under the water?. I invented a rule: constitution*20 seconds. And the movement is a 1/4 of the real. A player with 18 in constitution and a movement of 30 meters can swim 360 seconds in a movement of 7,5 meters in 10 second (1 round). I give to the players a penality on -2 when they fight in the water (when the water reah their "hip", if I used the word properly). But what should I do when they fight under the water? Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.arDate: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:13:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #81 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:22:49 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 Geoff Gander wrote: >>Actually... If I recall corectly... in Tolkien.. orcs where a corrupted form of the elves created by... um... someone... and the trolls where corrupted forms of the treants. >Yes, orcs were corrupted elves, thanks to the work of Melkor, otherwise known by the elves as Morgoth, No, no, no! This is a very common misconception. Yes, the orcs are created by Melkor, but they are NOT corrupted elves (who are still elves in their own right). They are created in *mimicry* of Iluvatar's Firstborn, but as such are not capable of the act of creation, but only of mindless destruction and desecration. Both Saruman and Sauron experiment with Orcs themselves, Saruman creating half-orcs (presumably using men), but they do not ever use elves. As for the trolls, I'm not sure where they come from (I would have thought they would be simply mutations of orcs), but corrupted "treants", which are normally called Ents by Tolkien, are still trees, like Old Man Willow. Thorf. ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:37:32 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >All words are pronounced as written, according to phonetical rules. Thus 'a' is pronounced as u in cut, 'i' as ee in keep, 'u' as oo in book, 'e' as in bet, and o as in pot. Capital letters indicate stressed syllables. >Feel free to write more. I always enjoy a linguistic theme. It's always nice when people discuss things which you're studying... :-) Incidentally, what do you mean by "a" being pronounced as u in "cut"? The problem with that description is that I don't know how you pronounce that word. Does anyone else know IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet)? It would help a lot in this discussion. Thorf. ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:11:28 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >In Germany, yes, but consider in the USA, where it is not unheard-of for a surname to be adopted as a given name. The names "Clark" and "Douglas" are examples of this. We also don't have an invasionary state dictating what we can name our children, so the idea of naming a kid anything at all is not inconceivable. (There was one poor girl named LaTrine, believe it or not...) Clark I agree with, Douglas I'm not quite so sure about. Douglas has been a common first name in Scotland (and possibly Ireland too) for a long time. Thorf. ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:16:02 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >What you have said here though sounds interesting. Does it come from your campaign? Do you have info on the kingdom that you have fleshed out and would like to share? Hmmm... I'll have to find wherever it was that I read about Citadel. I know that I read about it somewhere- ie, I didn't make up the bit about it being similar to Undermountain. I would have sworn it was in DotE, but I'll double check. Who knows, maybe I hallucinated the whole thing and did actually make that bit up... stranger things have happened. :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:20:17 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >Norrvik I'm doing a bit on Norrvik for the Vestland entry in this year's (well, the 1015) almanac. Nothing that major, though, so I'd still love to see what anyone else has to say on it. >Any of Darokin's 'big five' Athenos gets a pretty big writeup this year, that I hope you guys find interesting. I think Fabrizio is working on Darokin City as well... Otherwise, any of the others are certainly fair game (as far as I know) and we'd all love to see some detailed desc's of them! - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:28:04 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >Don't know if it's really a good idea. I mean, the net-canon council is probably necessary otherwise in a few years we'll start discussing about 100 different Mystaras without a common line. But having the Net Almanac team as "supreme judges" is something I don't like at all. Just my opinion. And one that I share, as well. When we started the Net-almanacs- mainly Michael Roy and Herve Musseau- it was based on not just our opinions of what should happen, but I'd say a good bulk of what showed up in the 1014 almanac were events that had initially been proposed on the list, by all of our various members. Things changed a little bit with this year's almanac, primarily due to two things- 1) we "net-compilers" following through with some of our initial ideas, and 2) less proposals, in general, from the list as to events that might take place (at least until recent months, when most of our work had already been well underway). We hope to incorporate many, if not all, of the ideas and proposals (and there have been a lot!) that have been tossed our way recently. But by no means have we assumed our work to be completely "canon", and for our words to be taken as the final decision. Indeed, we have had a number of discussions amongst ourselves about that selfsame issue, finally deciding that we would go ahead with things the way we present them, and leave it to individual DMs to pick and choose what they want. It is interesting, I think, to note that most (if not all) of the core "net-compilers" have campaigns that have diverged and are different from the events in the PWAs and the net-almanacs (in some ways significantly!). When and if we begin to incorporate certain wholly net-created events, etc- the Carnifex Tyranny, etc- I agree that we should attempt to come to some sort of consensus about them, but that it shouldn't be decided solely by we few "net-compilers", who have taken on that role purely of our own voluntary choice. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:28:08 -0800 From: David Keyser Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City >There has been talk on some other AD&D lists about taking a city in the setting and developing it. That is, the list members would submit their creations concerning people and places of that city. What do you think, maybe we could do this with some Mystaran city, too (why not jump on the bandwagon ;) It should be a city which is not well-detailed but still holds interest for most Mystaran fans. Here are some suggestions: How about Selenica in Darokin? It is one of the most cosmopolitan. It probably has ghettos for each of the neighboring countries. Dave Keyser *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:41:30 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, David Keyser wrote: >How about Selenica in Darokin? It is one of the most cosmopolitan. It probably has ghettos for each of the neighboring countries. I mentioned a bit about it in the 1015 almanac for Darokin, and it is mentioned somewhat in Joshuan's Almanac. I see it as being the most Ylari influenced city (obviously), with a large dwarvish population to boot. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:51:33 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City At 11.45 16/02/98 +0200, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >Rafielton (don't know how well this is described in GAZ5) In 1015 Almanac I've done a short writeup about Rafielton and there will probably be a map too. Some info about Rafielton, not much though, can be found in the PWA and the novel "Son of Dawn". ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:50:24 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [none] >I need some opinions, >I know how I can get a brand new, shrink-wrapped X11 "Saga of the Shadowlord" for 48$. Is it worth it? >Thanks WHERE????????????????????????????--i've been looking for that module forever! (If it's a dealer, could you please tell me their URL? **If you want your reply message to go through, please send to my private address or without a subject line--my mail dumps the list if I'm gone for a few days at a time. Thanks** jennifer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:54:17 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [none] >With the mention by listmembers of info contained in the DotE on Citadel and >the nation of Bettelyn, I am starting to suspect there is something defective with my copy if that boxed set. >Am I right that there is no canonical description of the Kingdom of Bettellyn, the Kingdom of Eadrin, the Kingdom of Foresthome, and the Kingdom >of Frisland? >If there is could I trouble you for source and page numbers? >Thanks deeply! Actually, there's nothing wrong with your set (at least, as long as mine's okay, too:)--There's a little line there (I don't know what page, since I'm away from my resources right now) that says something like, "Some kingdoms aren't developed; that is left up to the individual DM." I guess that the bean-counters got on Allston's back, or something :) >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:04:11 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3AFC.E6FF42E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable >In 1015 Almanac I've done a short writeup about Rafielton and there wil= l >probably be a map too. Some info about Rafielton, not much though, can = be >found in the PWA and the novel "Son of Dawn". What's this novel "Son of Dawn"? - ------------------------------------------------------------- This has been a Galwylin=A9 Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3AFC.E6FF42E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable

> In 1015 Almanac I've done a short = writeup about Rafielton and there will
> probably be a map too. = Some info about Rafielton, not much though, can be
> found in the = PWA and the novel "Son of Dawn".

What's this novel = "Son of = Dawn"?



----------------------------------------------= - ---------------
This has been a Galwylin=A9 = Production

galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ = #6755972)
http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3AFC.E6FF42E0-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #81 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 01:28:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #82 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, February 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 082 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac timeline [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! [MYSTARA] - Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City [MYSTARA] - Mystara Canon Supervisors? Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) [MYSTARA] - German words Re: [MYSTARA] - Adaptations to B1 - Info for DM's Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City [MYSTARA] - General Gilfronden Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:33:53 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City >>In 1015 Almanac I've done a short writeup about Rafielton and there will probably be a map too. Some info about Rafielton, not much though, can be found in the PWA and the novel "Son of Dawn". >What's this novel "Son of Dawn"? It's a novel in the First Quest series. It's set in Mystara. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 01:40:24 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Hi! >No, no, no! This is a very common misconception. Yes, the orcs are created by Melkor, but they are NOT corrupted elves (who are still elves in their own right). They are created in *mimicry* of Iluvatar's Firstborn, but as such are not capable of the act of creation, but only of mindless destruction and desecration. Hmm, I always have had the impression the orcs are corrupted elves. let me look it up: [Robert Foster, "The Complete Guide to Middle-Earth" p.393] Orcs were apparently bred by Melkor in Utumno early in the First Age [...], using Elves whom he had captured near Cuiviénen and corrupted in his dungeon. >As for the trolls, I'm not sure where they come from (I would have thought they would be simply mutations of orcs), but corrupted "treants", which are normally called Ents by Tolkien, are still trees, like Old Man Willow. [same source, p.501] Trolls were originally bred by Morgoth in the First Age from some unknown stock, perhaps in imitation of Ents. ************************************************************ Peter "Mr. XXL" Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:15:46 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Hmmm...this sure is a passionate debate that's started, isn't it? I think, regardless of what's been said on either side, that _something_ should be put into place that should decide, once and for all, what is official and what is not. Mind you, I still think that the ultimate decision should be up to the individual DM. Personally, I would like to discuss my creations without having to put "IMC"s all over my email messages - and I think that, when I am discussing my creations with people such as Matt, Harvard, or Fabrizio (for example), whom I now know use (or intend to use) my material, I should be able to discuss such things as the Carnifex authoritatively, and except authoritatiive responses. This is because, for myself, Matt, and others, the Carnifex Tyranny et al _are_ canon, although quasi-canon compared to things like TSR products. I think Matt, Havard, and Fabrizio would agree with me here. I see your point, Jamuga. What if you don't have the Carnifex tyranny IYC, and you see me discussing it? How should you treat it? This is why I have written that survey. If I get a concrete repsonse from everyone on this list as to how they feel about net-canon, and how much they use in their campaigns, then I'll feel as though I have contributed to the debate. Just a few minutes of your time and we might be able to resolve this matter once and for all. If the majority like certain aspects of net-canon, I will post those results to the list to inform everyone that "the people have spoken on the matter". How we deal with it from there is up to all of us. I just think we're getting nowhere right now, and at least if we knew what people thougt about different pieces of material, we might be better off. Sorry for blabbing about all this, but I just thought it had to be said. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:12:15 -0500 (EST) From: mystaros@serv2.fwi.com (james mishler) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac timeline Mischa Gelman wrote: <> My web page has a copy of my History of Blackmoor on it... I think Shawn's site does, also. It details a bit more than the 100 years between DA1 and the GRoF... Mystaros signature file *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:20:57 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! This is a resubmission of the survey. I have included Aaron Nowack's Undersea Timeline (sorry about that, Aaron :-) *********************** Quasi-Canon Material Survey ******************** Please indicate whether you use the following materials in your campaign: CULTURES - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER YOU USE THE FOLLOWING CULTURES IN YOUR CAMPAIGN WORLD The Darine 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about them 4. I modified them to fit my world The Ungolwaith 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about them 4. I modified them to fit my world Kargoyles (did I get this right Marco?) 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about them 4. I modified them to fit my world Lhomarrians and Selhomarr 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about them 4. I modified them to fit my world Kaarjala 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about it 4. I modified it to fit my world MOrient (I know it's quiet right now, but there was a lot of stuff on the list about it) 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about it 4. Modified it to fit my world TIMELINES/HISTORICAL EVENTS - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER THE FOLLOWING EVENTS OR TIMELINES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN YOUR CAMPAIGN The Carnifex Tyranny 1. Include in campaign 2. Do not include in campaign 3. Don't know enough about it 4. Modified to fit my world The Carnifex of Y'hog 1. Include in campaign 2. Do not include in campaign 3. Don't know enough about it 4. Modified to fit my world Undersea Timeline 1. Include in my campaign 2. Do not include ini my campaign 3. Don't know enough about it 4. Modified it to fit my world Varellyan Timeline 1. Include in campaign 2. Do not include in campaign 3. Don't know enough about it 4. I modified it to fit my world Hyborian Timeline 1. Include in campaign 2. Do not include in campaign 3. Don't know enough about it 4. I modified it to fit my world PERSONAL PREFERENCES - PLEASE INDICATE YOUR CHOICE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS Races/Cultures 1. More new races/cultures 2. No more new races/cultures 3. Unsure "Lost History" (by this I mean details on dead cultures and such) 1. More lost history 2. Less lost history 3. Unsure General Impressions - how do you feel about quasi-canon material being discussed on the list? 1. Quasi-canon material is fine for discussion 2. The MML should stick only with canon material 3. Unsure - haven't made up my mind yet 4. I really don't care Final comments - please write below any messages and such that you wish to share with those who work on quasi-canon material: Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:24:29 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen Sorry to resurrect an ancient thread... [Regarding the elvish custom of exposing deformed babies to the elements, and it not being a tradition brought to the elves by Rafiel.] On Thu, 25 Dec 1997 Kaviyd wrote: >>After the GRoF the elvish race was probably short of supplies, so they had >>to set up certain regulations to prevent overpopulation. >That's funny -- from all that I have read, overpopulation has never been a problem for Elves. Just start with the time that they take to mature, assume that they do not have many more children than humans, and work out the math -- you will soon see that they should have more of an underpopulation problem. I think you're missing the point here. The custom was started because the elves were exposed to radiation (the "rotting plague") and could not survive if they let those mutants have children and effectively pollute the (already restricted) elvish gene pool. Due to the severity of the times, they were forced to adopt this custom, possibly due to lack of resources to care for these deformed children. I hope this helps clarify things a bit. It's important to understand the ideas behind this (and a certain other) custom (as Fabrizio said) for the next Almanac. Thorf. ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:35:38 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania >Rough overveiw of the Milenian City/States >Obviously, the city/states are based on Greece. However, I have them portrayed as a mix of the period of decline and a hint of the period leading up to RW Greek Golden Age. This is to demonstrate the "empire lost" aspect as well as form a basis for a potentially new dynasty. I have done the same in my portrayals of the different city-states. As you'll see from the files I sent you today. Certain states are on the verge of a renaissance of sorts (Kastelios, Ilioiloosti), others are in decline (Cyclonia), and still more are becoming very militaristic (Mivosia). And of course some are just trying to survive (Polakatsikes - but wait until the 1015 Almanac comes out, what a surprise it will be!, Kalavronti, Telos Takesidhi, and Hrissopoli. >The biggest problem facing the city/states is the apparent disunity. Locaction, surrounding humanoids, and terrain constrictions make interaction difficult. Plus there are social aspects that make unity and cooperation a factor. I've covered this too. We seem to be working on the same wavelength here. I've decided to have Mivosia and Ilioloosti be implacable rivals in the central plains region - much to the horror of the villages in between. I have created Ilioloosti to be a sort of philosopher state, where efforts are being made to rebuild Milenian society and culture. I have Mivosia as a sort of Sparta - very militaristic, and determined to build a new Milenian Empire, with Mivosia as its capital! >Each city/state is based upon a RW Greek City/State (Athens, Sparta, etc). I have also included variations of Crete, Troy, Tyre, and Macedonia for added character. Which national characters have you ascribed to which states? >Militarily the city/states suck. Well, actually they are more defense oriented. Numbers and leadership limit their potential to a defensive nature. I think this way too. Mivosia is the most aggressive one (IMC), but it will find that its strength is barely enough to keep control over what it has... >IMO the city/states need a hero type to bring the various sects into unity. And given the Greek background, a Prophecy seems appropriate to proclaim the arrival of a "Perseus"-like hero. And as with Perseus elements act against him. Though I have not worked out a Prophecy in detail, the basis will be that the hero's rise (as well as the city/states) will be at the cost of at least one of the current city/states. Naturally, the effeced ruler and his supporters will seek to stop the budding hero. And in steps of Perseus, the actions that the antagonists take form and mold the hero into assuming the role of "hero". I love irony. Perhaps some unlikely person walks into the role? I can defintely see certain city-states not wanting to become part of a new Milenian Empire - such as Polakatsikes and Telos Takesidhi (I detailled both of them as being very independent-minded states - they have survived this long without aid, so why would they want to join any empire (though again, Polakatsikes has this answered for it, though not in the way it hoped - you'll find out when the Almanac comes out :-) >The City/states mostly depend on their agricultural base. These farms are terraced fields on the surrounding hills around the city/state. However, most city/states do have a secondary economic boon. Mining, weapons, and such are primary ventures. Others depend on their location to afford added income. The quasi- Troy is strategically placed to act as a trade hub. The quasi-Tyre is placed in an oxbow of a river to control river traffic. Same ideas here. I also have the larger states controlling satellite villages and towns - no more than a handful, but enoug to support the needs of the hub. Places like Kastelios have other thinigs going for it (access to the sea, growing relations with the KW, etc.) >The Milenian City/States are an old project of mine that I started after picking up The Milenian Empire and The Milenian Sceptor a few years back. As fate intervened, the project fell to the back burner. I restarted the project about a year ago. Mainly to help fill out Davania as a whole. However, the set aside pages in a spiral bound note book have been untouched. Only a few blanks have been filled in the templates. May I suggest we work together on this? I mentioned the citiies I want towork on, but I'm sure that you, myself, and Jeff Daly could work something out that could be accepted as net-canon, if that is the way we want to go. At the very least we should shine some more light on these places. >One question I have is the names. Is their any reason why the Milenian names of HW could not be used. With Alphatia, the names of towns and cities stayed as they were when it was in the KW. So technically, the Milenian (HW) capital's name of Corisa could be used as a name for one of the KW city/states. Then there are derivatives of the old Traldar settlements such as Krakatos. I see no problem with this - I created a new town, Aelios, according to this principle. Remember that the 72 mile hex map in PWA 1011 showed only the largest city-states. Smaller one no doubt exist (and I mentioned some in the timeline I sent you). I'm sure these could be detailled as well. Side Note to Matt: How about a Doulakki survival on Davania? Any ideas? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:52:29 EST From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City My vote goes for Selenica *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 01:26:34 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Canon Supervisors? Hi! I don´t like the idea of a group of people deciding which ideas are now "our" canon and which are not. I like the MML as it is! I like being confronted with alternate ideas! If nobody on the list is interested in a certain idea, the posts will stop pretty soon. >Don't know if it's really a good idea. I mean, the net-canon council is probably necessary otherwise in a few years we'll start discussing about 100 different Mystaras without a common line. We are already talking about 100 different Mystaras now. And the common line is for me the overall feeling of Mystara, not any one special piece of information. ************************************************************ Peter "Mr. XXL" Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:53:19 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) >Which reminds me- we could always use that Re-Animator guy (can't think of his name offhand- he had a short story written about him) as a model for one of the wizards in Blackheart. That was a good story, too. A lot more "gore-horror" than "gothic-horror", but good nevertheless. You mean Herbert West? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:59:57 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: [MYSTARA] - German words Hi, I did some checking into the word "Lich" recently and I also came across the "Lich-gate" thing. Anyway, it would appear that the root, at least in English, is the Old English word "lic" (pronounced very like modern leech), meaning "body, corpse". Anyway, an interesting question with Lich is: how do you pronounce it? In my gaming group there are at least four ways to pronounce it (approximately leech, leesh, laich, lich). My personal theory is that the modern pronunciation should be "laich", the diphthongised one, because the Great Vowel Shift would have resulted in the OE "lic" changing to ME "laich". Thorf. PS - I wish ASCII included IPA symbols! Does anyone know a good IPA font on the internet? I'm considering doing a pronunciation guide to Mystara. ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:07:01 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Adaptations to B1 - Info for DM's >This is the 3rd of 4 messages regarding my personal adaptations to Module B1 - In Search of The Unknown. Enjoy! Great stuff! Even after being revised, that module always needed much more fleshing out. I remember when I first DMed it, upon concluding the adventure, the players were disappointed that there was nothing else to it. In a later campaign I made some of my own modifications. Interestingly, I also had Rogahn and Zelligar march off into the Broken Lands. In that campaign, some of the magic-users had actually trained with Zelligar prior to his disappearance (he met them when he had visited Glantri City during Arcanium). These Glantrian mages, years later, became powerful wizards and at one point became embroiled in military service in the Broken Lands. *** WARNING *** (potential spoiler below) During a high-level adventure in which they infiltrated Thar's stronghold, they picked up that Princess Carlotina Erewan's husband (the former Prince) may in fact have been prisoner in the huge prison-stalactite looming over Thar's stonghold. One of the mages who had trained with Zelligar infiltrated the stalactite - and discovered that a much emaciated pair (Rogahn and Zelligar!) were also prisoner! It was a completely unexpected discovery, and both NPCs once again entered into the greater scheme of things (including WotI). Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:43:45 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania >The original Corisa remains topside. But it is virtually abandonded. I haven't decided on having it resettled by nearby Milenians or leaving it as overgrown ruins. The latter could be instrumental in the Prophesized Hero. Magical arms and knowledge could be found there. You could include an Oracle as setting up shop among the ruins. Perhaps even humanoids and other nasty creatures are taking advantage of the ruins. However, they leave the Oracle and the Hermits alone as they are protected by powerful magics. This is a good idea! Question, where should we put Corisa (ruined)? I see the possibility of a good monster-bashiing adventure, or at least a good dungeon crawl. But yes, I think that something should be there, like a golden laurel or something, that the purest emperors wore in the olden days. Only when the purest of heart and the truest son (or daughter) of the last great emperor returns to the capital city and dons the laurel will the Empire be restored. Perhaps the golden laurel acts as a rod of rulership, and gives bonuses to mass combat results, and maybe it enhances Charisma too. In this way, the heir could convince "good" and "true" Milenians to join him or her, but be able to ensure the victory of his/her armiies on the battlefield against those who would stop this plan. And of course, once the heir conquers all, he or she must set to the mammoth task of rebuilding everything (roads, inifrastructure, buildings, educate the people in the smaller towns, etc) and of course defend the reborn empire from all who would oppose it (Immortals, too! - There are several, such as Vanya, who would not like to see a resurgent Milenian Empire on the surface). And another question: What about Milenian- or partially-Milenian-descended nations? How would Minaea react? What about Niscosenia (if you use this country IYC)? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:36:12 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors >>Don't know if it's really a good idea. I mean, the net-canon council is probably necessary otherwise in a few years we'll start discussing about 100 different Mystaras without a common line. But having the Net Almanac team as "supreme judges" is something I don't like at all. Just my opinion. I can see why it is frustrating to some to discuss "canon" rules and descriptions of Mystara. Someone has already wisely pointed out that many of us have campaigns that differ/diverge considerably from previously published material. Personally, I always struggled to keep my own version of Mystara 100% consistent with the published material (just my obsessive-compulsive personality) - but heck, even authors of this published material have been known to differ/diverge from stuff that was published before their own material! (I have my own way of reconciling this to myself. Ages ago DC comics described alternate Earths by designations such as Earth One or Earth Two and so on (the RW was Earth Prime). I can imagine a Mystara "Prime" and each of our own campaigns as reflections of that world. It is possible to travel from one Mystara to the other (bring a character from your own campaign into somebody else's campaign) but Mystara "Prime" is determined by the published material (which I guess was for the most part play-tested as a part of somebody or other's campaign) and the net stuff is drawn from our own campaigns.) My point is that we are ALREADY discussing about 100 (but I suspect even more) different Mystaras. Our common line is ALREADY the published stuff. Our collective contributions have begun to mold a MML extension to the published stuff but none of this should be regarded as more or less "canon" than anything out in print. I don't see how things will get more confusing unless we try to add things to what's "canon" and for this reason we should not engage in such endeavors. Just identify where your information is coming from (ie. published or the net) when discussing something. When we talk about our individual "personalized" Mystara we use "IMC". When we talk about published stuff we use the word "canon" (although frankly the word is starting to make me sick). The problem is that we have no separate designation for MML stuff. In Mystara on the net (OTN? MML? NET?) material should simply be designated as such, with no decisions about whether it is "canon" or not. Compiling it is a good idea, so that all this great stuff could be easily accessed. The Net Almanacs are a great start. A MML "library" would be ideal. But why debate or rule on things as "canon"? The material we all have access to is for us to use, change, or ignore as we individually see fit. Just my $0.02 Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:11:40 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Is this like a MUSH or a very well developed city(text material, which can be used in your campaign)? >I´m more insterested in the latter, but either sounds like fun. Of the ones you suggested I´d prefer these: Yep, it's the latter. Once we decide on a city, list members can write material about it. Hopefully someone will put it all on a website. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:26:10 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [MYSTARA] - General Gilfronden Can somebody with GAZ5 explain to me the position of General Gilfronden. I've seen him called a Shadow Elf and a friend of Doriath, so what gives? What is his position in Aengmor (Fabrizio?) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:27:57 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< So, what do you think? >> >Good idea, but why not an Alphatian city? I suggest Lakim on this island in the Lake Llyn. Well, I was mostly thinking of a city that most people can use in their campaigns. Since Alphatia is a bit away from the center of action (even more so after WotI), a city in the KW would be better. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #82 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 05:09:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #83 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, February 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 083 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Birthright PBeM Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) Re: [MYSTARA] - About X1 [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Re: Immortal Candidates [MYSTARA] - Best Mystara Pages (was: Mystara Gming) Re: [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Gaz [MYSTARA] - Ochaelan cities ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:37:06 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Thorfinn Tait wrote: >Incidentally, what do you mean by "a" being pronounced as u in "cut"? The problem with that description is that I don't know how you pronounce that word. Well, it's basically like 'a' in just about every other language than English (like, say, French of German). Also sort of like in British pronunciation of 'last'. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:05:56 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >This is why I have written that survey. If I get a concrete repsonse from What survey? Could you resend it (I never saw it). ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:09:00 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >*********************** Quasi-Canon Material Survey ******************** >Please indicate whether you use the following materials in your campaign: >CULTURES - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER YOU USE THE FOLLOWING CULTURES IN YOUR CAMPAIGN WORLD >The Darine >1. Use >The Ungolwaith >1. Use >Kargoyles (did I get this right Marco?) >2. Do not use >Lhomarrians and Selhomarr >1. Use >Kaarjala >1. Use >MOrient (I know it's quiet right now, but there was a lot of stuff on the list about it) >1. Use (if I ever hear anything about it) >TIMELINES/HISTORICAL EVENTS - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER THE FOLLOWING EVENTS OR TIMELINES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN YOUR CAMPAIGN >The Carnifex Tyranny >1. Include in campaign >The Carnifex of Y'hog >1. Include in campaign >Undersea Timeline >1. Include in my campaign >Varellyan Timeline >1. Include in campaign >Hyborian Timeline >2. Do not include in campaign >PERSONAL PREFERENCES - PLEASE INDICATE YOUR CHOICE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS >Races/Cultures >3. Unsure >"Lost History" (by this I mean details on dead cultures and such) >1. More lost history >General Impressions - how do you feel about quasi-canon material being discussed on the list? >1. Quasi-canon material is fine for discussion >Final comments - please write below any messages and such that you wish to share with those who work on quasi-canon material: Mostly very good stuff. Continue to do it, and I even might use some of it ;) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:47:26 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Birthright PBeM Greetings to all, I am starting a PBeM game in the world of Mystara utilizing Birthright rules. I will use my conversions which I offered some time ago (if you don't have them, mail me and I'll send them to you). The emphasis of the game will be solely on the strategic elements of BR rules (no 'normal' adventures). Knowledge of basic BR rules is essential. In-depth knowledge of Mystara is not necessary (but some familiarity might help). If you are interested, contact me privately. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 03:41:44 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! Hi! >The Darine >3. Don't know about them >The Ungolwaith >2. Do not use >Kargoyles (did I get this right Marco?) 2. Do not use >Lhomarrians and Selhomarr >2. Do not use >Kaarjala >3. Don't know about it >MOrient (I know it's quiet right now, but there was a lot of stuff on the list about it) >2. Do not use >The Carnifex Tyranny >4. Modified to fit my world >The Carnifex of Y'hog >4. Modified to fit my world >Undersea Timeline >4. Modified it to fit my world >Varellyan Timeline >3. Don't know enough about it >Hyborian Timeline >3. Don't know enough about it >Races/Cultures >"Lost History" (by this I mean details on dead cultures and such) 1. More lost history >General Impressions - how do you feel about quasi-canon material being discussed on the list? >1. Quasi-canon material is fine for discussion ************************************************************ Peter "Mr. XXL" Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:13:39 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) At 11.02 14/02/98 -0500, bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, DM wrote: >>HPL is the acronym for Howard Phillips Lovecraft, obviously, and the guy i'm referring to is featured in the short story "Pickman's Model", which has >So, which D&D race already extant is closest to "Pickman's model" (the model, not the story), anyway? It's obviously ghouls. A ghoul was in fact the real model for Pickman's drawings before he disappeared without leaving traces... I think this could be a good adventure for low level characters (up to 6th level), much like the adventure in Darokin gaz featuring the deadly sculptress that used a cockatrice to produce her fabulous statues.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:35:22 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) At 16.30 14/02/98 -0700, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >Which reminds me- we could always use that Re-Animator guy (can't think of his name offhand- he had a short story written about him) as a model for one of the wizards in Blackheart. That was a good story, too. A lot more "gore-horror" than "gothic-horror", but good nevertheless. Herbert West, Reanimator: nice to meet you.. ;) Yes, definitely another good character to use. Uhm.. could he be working with Heydrech, that nagpa of the Grey Front in Serraine (he was fascinated with undead)? Could also be Mystara's Dr. Frankenstein.. (i personally have a couple of Frankensteins playing around with life and corpses..) DM "He's ALIVE!!" Battlecry of Herbert West *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:43:54 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About X1 At 13.47 16/02/98 -0300, 3@giga.com.ar wrote: >I'm traducing the X1 module from hebrew to spanish but, as usual, I have some problems and some doubts. >Concerning to X1. The adventure is based on the idea of finding the black diamond (if I'm not wrong). But In the adventure book the diamond didn't appears, even in the Temple. >Can anybody explain me what happened? Actually, IIRC the object of the quest was a great pearl, and it shows up in the lowest levels of the temple up the plateau in the northern part of the isle (when i played it with my group -as a player- we expected a HUGE pearl, and when we found it, we thought: "Hey, there must be another bigger one! This ain't the treasure, let's go on exploring the dungeon" and we stumbled on the kopru.. not a good idea...) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:58:29 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Re: Immortal Candidates Andrew Morrow wrote: <> As Herve already said, it's a good adventure idea, but i don't like eliminating Barimoor either. Of course, you could say: why keeping him there then if u don't use him? Better to use him dead.. ;) Well, i don't know exactly what happens this year in Ylaruam and if the fellow editor in charge of it used Barimoor, but i think Barimoor is wise enough to have emigrated to other planes during the Week of No Magic (maybe he was just lucky, being on a quest on another plane while the catastrophe struck, or maybe he predicted something..). Anyway, i'd love to have him active in next years. As for why he was so quiet during the war, well, he could have worked but maybe u didn't notice (Barimoor is good at making his plans run unnoticed). ;) Just a pet idea: living down there for so many years, always extending his network of tunnels and summoning monsters, he could have stumbled upon a huge tower radiating magic. And as he entered this towering bulding, the building began to speak in his mind, whispering him dark thoughts.. Result: Barimoor is now working with Wastoure? And has maybe a small part in Synn's actions in Ylaruam (see next almanac)?.. <> Well, i tend to see Doriath more oriented towards the Path of the Dynast too, but i'd say he has begun to quest on this path only after AC 1008, after the Exile from Alfheim and the arrival in Wendar. He had dreams while staying in Wendar, dreams that foretold him he will guide his people to reclaim the Lost Land. He believes now his duty to arrange for the coming back of the Alfheimers to Canolbarth. Doriath is already on the Path (he probably contacted Ordana in Wendar) and there are good opportunities that regaining Alfheim and transforming it into a different type of country will be a major step towards immortality. As for the device of time traveling, well, there is still time to look for that (after all he's an elf). Now the primary objective is to reclaim Alfheim (Doriath feels dutiful towards his elves), and the chances seem to increase day after day. This is the way i see it and i think the way it will be handled in the almanac. Doriath would never go to Norwold: too far away, too risky, too many different "foreign" elves. <> The involvement of Ka is a nice touch. I agree he should be alive. I don't agree on the "commerce of would-be immortals" between Thanatos and Orcus: it's silly. Also, it is the human who must petition to the immortal, not the contrary. "Hey Orc, look, what can u give me in exchange for Kaladan?" "Grrumpf... Let's sheee.. d'ya like dish Traveshtissh treant? I borrow'd it from Masshauwu a few yearsh back.." ;) <> poor guy.. ;) Now that i think about it, it's very strange that a lycanthrope has chosen the path of the Sphere of Matter. After all, werecreatures embody the constant change (between instincts and reason, human and beast), while Matter favours immobility and is against any form of change. Anyway, nice plot: could be exploited in next almanacs. <> YES! Sounds fine to me. Resurrected by Immortals like the other alphatians! That's the solution. <> I think we're heading along those lines with the almanac (right Fabrizio?). As for the material components for the magical item, well, why Blackflame? I think it's much better a leaf from the mythical One Tree of Ordana (long trip awaits Starwatcher in this case). Couldn't it be a unique spell instead of a magical item? <> More Atzy's than Masauwu's schemes here. However, i think we could cross Travestis' path to immortality with Doriath's (or Starwatcher's) quest. Maybe (surely IMHO) the two will be forced to fight to accomplish their ultimate quest, and the death of one of them will result in the other's ascension to the Upper Spheres (or to the completion of one of the four - -five?- requisites). Something like: Final Showdown in Canolbarth. <> Perfect. <> I bet the Quest and trial have been already accomplished by Morphail during his early "adventuring career" and probably his nosferatu state is the result of his meddling with the entropic artifact (which may still be in his possession). Now the Task and Testimony. For the Testimony, we can think he's slowly accomplishing it by creating other nosferatu (he may be the first nosferatu -created by that entropic artifact, remember?- and spreading his race qualifies for the Testimony). As for the Task, well that bides ill for Glantri, since (quoting from the Path of the Fiend): "The canidate must, lie, destroy, or turn people against each other as much as possible. The fiend must travel to different cultures and lands, possibly other worlds, for five years while accomplishing this Task." He's been ruling in Glantri since eighth century, so he must have many schemes running. When he will complete his testimony (forming a horde of 1000 nosferatu), he will begin to pull the strings to cause the downfall of Glantri for his master Alphaks, thus completing the Task.. <> Sorry, but i agree with Herve: Brannart is not traveling to Oceania. It's more likely he will attempt using the now entropy-powered NoS to attain Immortality or, as i prefer, to attain demilich status. As a demilich, he will be immensely more powerful, not obliged to serve anyone (Immortals) and will begin to play in the cosmic chessboard (another Vecna?). Also, since he was trying to use the NoS to attain immortality, he hasn't probably sworn allegiance to any immortal. <> Yes, the guy's Papalotl. He will be one of the major characters featured in this year's timeline. He is definitely an Azcan on the path to immortality, but well.. we're still debating about his real place inside the bigger order of things.. ;) <> We prefer having him in Norwold, taunting his nemesis Coiger de Mory, right Herve? ;) And btw, Herve, what did you mean when u said: <>? Are u referring to EB or who? <> Well, this is my favourite! A great joke played by our most famous entertainer! ;) Anyway, IMC he's not questing for Immortality: he wants more.. He wants to become an Old One without.. err.. let's say without passing from the Start! ;) He's still alive and kicking, but i doubt we will ever detail him in the almanac: better to leave him to each DM, so everyone can plan anything based on their campaign. Herve also wrote: <> Would u like Etienne back as Immortal or mortal on the path to immortality, guys (and gals)? <> Don't think Ramose is actually eligible for immortality yet. As for Porphyriel and Eriadna, well the first has good chances to make it to Rafiel's side, while Eriadna is more pressed with earthly matters (ruling an empire like Alphatia doesn't allow you that much freetime one needs to become an immortal, i think ;)). <> so you're implying that.. nooo... really? But hadn't she already an entropic artifact to guard on Cestia? <> Don't think Pearl & Co will be replaced so easily these days. DM Mystara Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Mystara Webring: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:00:36 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Best Mystara Pages (was: Mystara Gming) DJ Sahlas wrote: >I need to know whether the best bits are being compiled by somebody somewhere. Basically I'm asking if there is a "non-canon" catalog of articles and material that the MML has produced. >I popped around the WWW a bit, and see that there are some pages, but they each seem more personalized than complete. Is there a "master" Mystara web page? Galwylin added: >You mean something like a 'Best of MML' page? I think that's a great idea. I >think we should look into the idea. >Perhaps we should make some kind of structure of the websites? And Haavard answered: >I think the most extensive pages are Marco "DM" Dalmonte's and Shawn Stanley's >websites. Also I have found interesting stuff on the pages of Mystaros and >Geoff Gander which I couldn't find elsewhere. Thanx for the advertisment, Haavard. ;) Anyway, to answer DJ's first question and Galwylin's doubt, THERE IS already a web structure designed to link all the best Mystara pages (the ones collecting MML stuff and others detailing Mystara): the MYSTARA WEBRING. So far it numbers 14 sites, among which Shawn Stanley's, Haavard R. Faanes', Herve Musseau's, Glenn Butcher's and Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen's webpages (and mine, of course ;)), but i hope it will grow in the following months. Just in case anybody's interested, you can find the Mystara Webring and submit your site at this URL: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html DM Mystara Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Mystara Webring: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:01:35 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension Inconu wrote: <> Okay. Let me point this out more clearly: IMO only if two dimensions are opposed the effect of their collision is an explosion. In any other case we can experience odd time-space effects, gates, wild magic or anti-magic zones, but no real "atomic" blowup. What happened during the infamous Grand Conjunction is that Ravenloft began to fall apart, scattering its pieces to the four corners of the Prime Plane (to the places where the domains originally came from, i suppose). This would have meant unleashing great forces of evil upon the universe in one single blast, possibly resulting in great harm and disgrace for the inhabitants of the Prime (i think this is the right interpretation). That's all. <> right. It is possible to connect the two as i've said, but this is really difficult to attain and it would result in waves of madness affecting vast areas of the region where this gate will appear. DM Mystara Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Mystara Webring: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:02:13 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Gaz Alex Benson wrote: <> Well, i don't think there are problems. If the idea passes, we'll simply let you know the format we normally use so you can adapt your template. Normally the entry for the country doesn't include the description of NPCs: that goes in the NPC section. Also, the entry needs not be longer than some three pages. <> We're waiting impatiently ;) DM Mystara Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Mystara Webring: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:08:58 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ochaelan cities Hi everyone! Checking the stuff on Ochalea i own (DotE, PWA1-2-3), i found out a strange geographic inconsistency and i'd like to know your interpretation. If you look in DotE general color map of the KW + Alphatia region and in the b/w map of Ochalea and Alatian Isles in DotE DM's book, you'll notice that there are 7 towns listed on Ochalean ground (not including the capital, Beitung). But then, if you look on the other side of the color map, the one displaying the Isle of Dawn region, you'll notice that only six towns are listed, each one with its specific name. The westernmost town in the Grasslands of Chi is not displayed. You might think this is due to the fact that the map doesn't cover the area where the town lies, so let's go checking in the other maps of Ochalea we've got from the Poor Wizard's Almanacs. In all the three maps only six towns are listed (not including Beitung, as usual), and in particular look at PWA2 map: it covers the whole Ochalean region and even has the names of the towns near them. But in the Grasslands of Chi region there is no sign of any settlement large enough to be labeled "town". So what's the explanation? Two maps display it, and the remaining don't: why? I have come up with three hypothesis: 1) the town existed back in AC1000 but is then collapsed during WotI for various reasons (both political and arcane?); 2) the town was already only a ruined settlement back in AC1000 (thieves' lair and pirates' hideout probably) 3) the town exists but is not recognized by the authorities because it refuses to acknowledge the power of the King, so it's been erased from the modern maps. I haven't come up with any other thoughts, so your opinion is well accepted. DM Mystara Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Mystara Webring: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #83 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:36:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #84 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, February 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 084 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - German words Re: [MYSTARA] - General Gilfronden Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Re: Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - German words [MYSTARA] - Name of a monster Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Re: Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - German words [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - German words Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words [MYSTARA] - About X1 (second e-mail) Re: [MYSTARA] - Fighting in the water Re: [MYSTARA] - Name of a monster [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia Mystara? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 05:28:36 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Seems like I can perceive three orders of magnitude with which "canon" weighs in: _ 1) TSR 2) MML 3) any individual campaign Numba one is inactive and likely to stay that way (hopefully to my ing taste - I don't trust them to do it right). My question is: in the e), overall scheme of things, is there a perceivable difference in the validity of an "MML net-canon" (agreed to by perhaps a half dozen active contributors to the list - those of you who do lots of work s, on things like the Net almanacs) and the canon produced by an o individual DM (someone who's put in LOTS of creative effect e.g. ee Mystaros or 'dru). I think not. So please don't spend a lot of time trying to label any consensus as anything more "holy" than that. Each of us may publish our own ideas and develop them as we wish. We are also all free to form groups of any size to do same in concert. But please don't try to rom build a "net-canon" based on, at best, a couple of hundred mailing list participants. And BTW, keep labeling the various ideas based on d whose they are - it helps those of us (me at least) who have personal preferences :). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:37:45 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! Hi, first post to the list, please don't hurt me! :) On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >This is a resubmission of the survey. I have included Aaron Nowack's Undersea Timeline (sorry about that, Aaron :-) >*********************** Quasi-Canon Material Survey ******************** >Please indicate whether you use the following materials in your campaign: >CULTURES - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER YOU USE THE FOLLOWING CULTURES IN YOUR CAMPAIGN WORLD >The Darine >2. Do not use They're the gypsy guys from Karameikos? I don't use them just now, but I would like to when I start my new campaign in Karameikos. >The Ungolwaith >3. Don't know about them >Kargoyles (did I get this right Marco?) >3. Don't know about them >Lhomarrians and Selhomarr >2. Do not use Cool idea, just my campaign probably wont go there. >Kaarjala >3. Don't know about it >MOrient (I know it's quiet right now, but there was a lot of stuff on the list about it) >3. Don't know about it >TIMELINES/HISTORICAL EVENTS - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER THE FOLLOWING EVENTS OR TIMELINES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN YOUR CAMPAIGN >The Carnifex Tyranny >3. Don't know enough about it >The Carnifex of Y'hog >3. Don't know enough about it >Undersea Timeline >2. Do not include ini my campaign >Varellyan Timeline >3. Don't know enough about it >Hyborian Timeline >3. Don't know enough about it >PERSONAL PREFERENCES - PLEASE INDICATE YOUR CHOICE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS >Races/Cultures >2. No more new races/cultures Actually, I'd like to see new cultures, especially up Norwold area, I'm just not sure there needs to be more races. This is of course just my personal preference, I keep the number of non-humans IMC to very few. Well, actually quite as lot since the PC's are Glantrian, but werewolves, nosferatu and the like at least *look* human :) >"Lost History" (by this I mean details on dead cultures and such) >3. Unsure >General Impressions - how do you feel about quasi-canon material being discussed on the list? >1. Quasi-canon material is fine for discussion >Final comments - please write below any messages and such that you wish to share with those who work on quasi-canon material: I rekon most DM's will veer from the Canon anyway (as in the TSR written stuff) if only because it does seem to contradict itself a fair bit, and also because campaign events will likely change the world anyway. If in my campaign my PC's kill off Mikhail Gorevitch-Woszlany while he's trying to take over the Fellowship of the Pouch, have I diverted from canon? Or if I never mention the Order of the Frog because it reminds me of a Power Rangers movie (Why do I get to be the Frog!), is that different from canon? Dunno. Certainly if I start WotI 4 years earlier, wrap it up in 3 or 4 years (cos I think it takes too long and not much happens at some points) and have Darokin overrun by Orcs...yeah I'd think that's sufficiently different to describe it as non-canon :) I think that there should be a way of discussing general points about Mystara that everyone recognises as Canon. Just because I kill off the halflings with a plague, doesn't mean that people shouldn't talk about them, obviously. Recognising that the halflings are alive and well in the Canon material isn't too difficult for me. As for the net stuff, apart from not knowing much about a lot of the stuff (can someone mention the web pages for details about the stuff above?), I think it may be nice to have another category of "canon" material. No-one may actually run a completely canon game (I don't think people would anyway) but it would be a nice reference point for discussion. Maybe not call it net-canon (seems to encompassing) but call it, (I dunno), thing canon, then people could say they're talking about thing-canon, or tsr-canon, or IMC? Just a thought... Oh, and there was mention before about this list dying? Meep! There's loads of discussion on it, I think it's got some life in it yet :) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:48:56 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German words On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Thorfinn Tait wrote: >Hi, >I did some checking into the word "Lich" recently and I also came across the "Lich-gate" thing. Anyway, it would appear that the root, at least in English, is the Old English word "lic" (pronounced very like modern leech), meaning "body, corpse". >Anyway, an interesting question with Lich is: how do you pronounce it? I pronounce it Lie-ch (as in to lie down, then CH as in german, or scottish loch). However the group I game with pronounce it litch (like an itch). Which always seems to me to be a cross between a leech and an itch, hardly that terrifying :) Gordon McCormick System Management University College Dublin Dublin, Ireland Gordon.McCormick@ucd.ie +353 1 7062427 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:43:16 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - General Gilfronden At 08.26 17/02/98 +0200, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >Can somebody with GAZ5 explain to me the position of General Gilfronden. I've seen him called a Shadow Elf and a friend of Doriath, so what gives? What is his position in Aengmor (Fabrizio?) I'll answer this one, though i'm sure Brizio can add something later :) Basically, Gilfronden's the guy who made it possible for the Shadowelves to invade Alfheim with no casualties (i'm going by the timeline written by Fabrizio and Herve, which i consider well done and acceptable). He managed to convince the other clanmasters and Doriath to abandon Canolbarth and migrate to WEndar and Karameikos, thus leaving the dying forest and avoiding combat with shadowelves, timing the SE's arrival in order to avoid hurting anyone. He is currently in Wendar with Doriath and the Erendyls and nobody has discovered he's a shadowelf up to now (same thing goes for Carlisan, who's become the clanmaster of Chossum clan in Karameikos). Gilfronden is a dear friend of Doriath and he respects the former king. I bet it was out of respect and love for the Alfheimers he has arranged for a peaceful invasion of Alfheim. He has come to like the Alfheimers after so many decades spent among them and even though he is deeply loyal to Telemon, he won't harm Doriath if he can avoid it. You'll see what happens to him in this year's almanac (though i don't know if u'll like what i planned :)). DM PS: sorry for the overload of posts. I only get to the net once every two-three days and so i accumulate mail... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:09:15 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! Here's my reply (for what is worth) >*********************** Quasi-Canon Material Survey ******************** >Please indicate whether you use the following materials in your campaign: >CULTURES - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER YOU USE THE FOLLOWING CULTURES IN YOUR CAMPAIGN WORLD >The Darine >2. Do not use Mainly i let the gipsies people undetailed and surrounded by an aura of mystery. It is not significant for my campaign to detail their history for now, and if i really need some historic ref. i can use the Vistani from Ravenloft (which is mainly what Mystaros did when he wrote the Darine: he transplanted Vistani to Mystara) >The Ungolwaith >1. Use Consider them useful, but haven't got the chance to use them or show them to my players up to now. I'm toying with the idea of presenting their society in the almanac with minor additions.. >Kargoyles (did I get this right Marco?) 1. Use I invented them more as a funny option to play gargoyles in Mystara. Not used them so far, but i've dropped some hints about the Myth of Kargol to my dwarf players lately, and they may even encounter some kargoyles in the future. >Lhomarrians and Selhomarr >1. Use Not used so far because my players don't adventure in the HW but i consider them useful. I'll introduce them when they go down there. >Kaarjala >4. Don't use I haven't used it so far even though my players rule in Norwold. Herve and I are thinking however of changing it to insert it in the almanac, but it's a hard work (it's too tailored to Mystaros' campaign) >MOrient (I know it's quiet right now, but there was a lot of stuff on the list about it) >2. Do not use Since there's nothing out about this project, i don't see how i could use it.. I have my own ideas about Orient in Mystara and i draw from manga and from interesting stuff on Ochalea i found on some fanzines to give the eastern flavour to my Mystara. >TIMELINES/HISTORICAL EVENTS - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER THE FOLLOWING EVENTS OR TIMELINES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN YOUR CAMPAIGN >The Carnifex Tyranny >1. Include in campaign I am using it right now: my players are about to end M3 (in a bad way) and to unleash some carnifex on the prime. >The Carnifex of Y'hog >1. Include in campaign I consider it useful but have not introduced them to my players. I will in future "cthuloid" sessions.. :) >Undersea Timeline >1. Include in my campaign Haven't used it so far (my players don't play underwater) but i assume things are going as depicted by Aaron. >Varellyan Timeline >1. Include in campaign Personally i think it works, but it makes no difference IMC whether the players know it or not, cause i don't play there. >Hyborian Timeline >1. Include in campaign Same as above >PERSONAL PREFERENCES - PLEASE INDICATE YOUR CHOICE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS >Races/Cultures >3. Unsure I don't normally create new Mystaran races: i usually create races from other worlds and plant them on Mystara :) Anyway, new races could be acceptable if they fit into mystara's atmosphere and history: i'm not biased towards anything except races clearly derived from other campaign worlds (IMHO putting drows in Mystara is the biggest mistake one could make). >"Lost History" (by this I mean details on dead cultures and such) 1. More lost history They can be exploited or ignored, it's DM's choice. They're welcomed. >General Impressions - how do you feel about quasi-canon material being discussed on the list? >1. Quasi-canon material is fine for discussion >Final comments - please write below any messages and such that you wish to share with those who work on quasi-canon material: Quasi canon is fine for discussions, but discussions should start from common basis, otherwise the point of the discussion is soon lost and we may end up biting at each other. So before starting a discussion which is full of references to this or that fact of one's campaign, be sure to explain fully the nature of your campaign. This way, those who don't agree with your premises will ignore the discussions, while other will follow and contribute. Only do not try to erase or replace canon when there's no need to do it. The backbone should remain what's been written by TSR so far (after all, this is the Mystara we all like), and then we can add extensions and flesh out details.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 13:31:17 +0200 (EET)From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Re: Immortal Candidates On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, DM wrote: >Would u like Etienne back as Immortal or mortal on the path to immortality, guys (and gals)? I'd prefer as Immortal (possibly weakened). Anyway, since that point really hangs upon how well the PCs do in Mark of Amber, I think we shouldn't mention a lot about this in the Almanac. Probably having him Immortal is best (if he is mortal in someone's campaign, it's easy to adjust). ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 13:15:32 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German words Hi folks, with regard to: >I pronounce it Lie-ch (as in to lie down, then CH as in german, or scottish loch). However the group I game with pronounce it litch (like an itch). Which always seems to me to be a cross between a leech and an itch, hardly that terrifying :) But your group is right: lich [´litsh] = Leichnam (from a german-english dictionary) The terror derives from the memories of my characters, not the sound of that menace to their very lifes. Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Feb 1998 09:49:46 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Name of a monster Another problem while traducing the X1 to spanish. I'll write the caracteristic and a description of a monster, can you try to write me the name of the monster? AC: 5 HD: 3+1 Mov: 30 (10) meters At: 1 depends the weapon Damage: depends the weapon + 1 Num. app.: 2-8 (5-20) Save as: Fighter 3 Morale: 9 Treasure T.: B (Q+P) Alignment: Chaotic XP value: 75 The ?????? are giant Goblins. (nothing else). How's the name of the monster? Thanks Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:16:57 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Re: Immortal Candidates >We prefer having him in Norwold, taunting his nemesis Coiger de Mory, right Herve? ;) >And btw, Herve, what did you mean when u said: <>? >Are u referring to EB or who? I wonder if he means 3 old women who own a mirror and like battle. You know the ones...they take a special interest in Norwold. I have several IMC thoughts about these women. They correspond to both the Greek/Roman Norns and they correspond to the (Danish?) myth of the three old weaver women. They are a holdover from Antalian times and until recently (the coming of Ericall and his very diverse kingdom) they laid pretty low. Mostly they guided the tribal peoples there through the ancient myths and tales. But King Ericall's regime (circa AY2000) has brought a multi-ethnic population with it. Because of his recognition of a need for colonizers he has opened his lands to people of all nations. In fact, because there are some Thyatians among the ruling lords now, the mother country of Alphatia has some problems... But in any case, these women have become newly energized and have taken to manipulating events in Norwold. The way the see it, the more diverse the better. They have influenced Ericall and some of his lords to take little notice of the nomadic tribes. Typically these tribes are not hindered from going from site to site in their seasonal migrations. Their overall plan is to have a strong Norwold with these new colonizers eventually marrying into the old tribes and creating one strong people. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:52:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German words On Tue, 17 Feb 1998 wizzard@mail.intcom.de wrote: >Hi folks, >with regard to: >>I pronounce it Lie-ch (as in to lie down, then CH as in german, or scottish loch). However the group I game with pronounce it litch (like an itch). Which always seems to me to be a cross between a leech and an itch, hardly that terrifying :) >But your group is right: >lich [´litsh] = Leichnam (from a german-english dictionary) >The terror derives from the memories of my characters, not the sound of that menace to their very lifes. Rats :) (players right again, what is the world coming to :) ) Actually, I wonder how differently people pronounce other words in Mystara, such as Wendar (I always pronounce Vendar for some unknown reason), Ylaruam, (I-lar-oom? AY-lar-yam?), Hattian (Hay-shan? Hat-ay-an?), there's probably others... gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:14:59 +0000 From: "Mike Harvey" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia Mystara? I have an idea for all you Mystaros. I ran all my campaigns in Mystara about 15 years ago, using the (sketchy) material in the Expert Set and module X1. I have been impressed with all the work you've put into it, but since the Mystara material is out of print and hard to find, my chances of getting a complete set are pretty slim. Has anyone thought about putting together a definitive Net-Guide to Mystara? One for beginners, or people like me who have been away for a long time... A high quality website with maps, overview, and a gazetteer of places would be a great start. You already have a timeline and lots of assorted articles and almanacs. Of course you can't post copyrighted material (like scanned maps), but homemade trail-maps (updated with all the new stuff labeled) would be okay. This would also be a chance to create a cohesive background incorporating all the material from different sources into a single "Encyclopedia Mystara." This could possibly be a parallel project with the Almanacs: one is a current-events journal, the other a [possibly revisionist] historical reference work. Anyway, you might just attract some new people, and maybe generate enough interest for TSR to consider resurrecting the world. I wonder if they'd sell the rights to Mystara...? Mike - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:25:18 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German words >Actually, I wonder how differently people pronounce other words in Mystara, such as Wendar (I always pronounce Vendar for some unknown reason), Ylaruam, (I-lar-oom? AY-lar-yam?), Hattian (Hay-shan? Hat-ay-an?), there's probably others... There was a pronunciation guide in the old X1. Ylaruam was "ill ah roo am". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:31:37 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >Well, it's basically like 'a' in just about every other language than English (like, say, French of German). Also sort of like in British pronunciation of 'last'. The last time I spoke to some Brits (about ten minutes ago), and they did not say "lust" when they meant "last". The vowel was a little lower than the American vowel, but it was certainly not that incredibly far mutated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Feb 1998 11:52:42 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - About X1 (second e-mail) Another doubt about the X1... In the first flat of the temple. How the players can reach the zones 35, 36 and 37? I think they can enter to the corridor from the room 34 but the plataform if closed, or the map is not right? The stairs of the zone 35, where they finish? I know in the second flat, but where? The only way to reach the second flat is falling? Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:23:20 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fighting in the water In a message dated 98-02-16 16:08:42 EST, you write: << The players can fight under the water? How much time can a player swiming under the water?. I invented a rule: constitution*20 seconds. And the movement is a 1/4 of the real. A player with 18 in constitution and a movement of 30 meters can swim 360 seconds in a movement of 7,5 meters in 10 second (1 round). I give to the players a penality on -2 when they fight in the water (when the water reah their "hip", if I used the word properly). But what should I do when they fight under the water? >> Players can fight underwater unhandicapped if a ring of free action is worn. Otherwise I'd have to look at AD&D Rules to get the specifics as I am unsure about the D&D ruling on it. However, I won't as I do not like to discuss rules. I favor setting material. Such Rules are probably in the Rules Cyclopedia or can be found in the Creature Crucible: Sea People. However, a PC fighting under water without a ring of free action would find his weapons speed slowed, movement restricted, not to mention spellcasting and a little thing called breathing impaired. However, I don't see or remember any problems in regards to magical items such as wands. Though I imagine that "speaking" the commands would reduce the duration that a PC could stay under because his words used up some air. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:23:41 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Name of a monster At 09:49 AM 2/17/98 -0300, you wrote: >Another problem while traducing the X1 to spanish. I'll write the caracteristic and a description of a monster, can you try to write me the name of the monster? >AC: 5 >HD: 3+1 >Mov: 30 (10) meters >At: 1 depends the weapon >Damage: depends the weapon + 1 >Num. app.: 2-8 (5-20) >Save as: Fighter 3 >Morale: 9 >Treasure T.: B (Q+P) >Alignment: Chaotic >XP value: 75 My guess would be Bugbears. In faery tales they were monsters that used to slink about in the darkness and terrorize little children. But in D&D they are huge hairy goblins that move surprisingly quietly for their great bulk. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:43:07 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Immortal Candidates ><might be the power behind the throne in one of the up and coming Isle of >Dawn nations, such as Helskir. Another option is that he may be one of the >foreign advisers to Queen Yrsa the Wise of Ostland. He could be helping her >guide her young nation into the eleventh century.>> >We prefer having him in Norwold, taunting his nemesis Coiger de Mory, right >Herve? ;) I'm still not sure what to do with Lambert Bohn. Maybe. >And btw, Herve, what did you mean when u said: <almanac.>>? >Are u referring to EB or who? Yes, and also, after the events that'll probably take place in 1016, probably Z too. BTW, I've had new ideas about this, I'll tell you more when we resume discussing Norwold. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:51:57 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia Mystara? On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Mike Harvey suggested we'd make an encyclopedia for Mystara. I just want to say its a great idea. I hope someone will get around to it. If I get some inspiration I will make an easy guide to mystara material online. Any suggestions about what should be included are welcome. One question though. Which of the timelines is the most extensive? The one on thorf's or the one on Cthulhudrews websites? Or are they the same? Comments?` Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #84 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 13:44:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #85 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, February 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 085 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Re: Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania [MYSTARA] - Survey Response [MYSTARA] - Re: Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Gaz Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Re: Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - Survey Response Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Reply Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Reply Re: [MYSTARA] - Survey Response ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:59:43 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Re: Immortal Candidates On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, DM wrote: >>Would u like Etienne back as Immortal or mortal on the path to immortality, guys (and gals)? Some years have passed since Etiennes fall. I have suggested before that we should let what happened during the recent years remain a mystery and assume that Etienne either has been able to regain his immortality during these years, or that he was restored to immortality after the adventure and has chosen to lay low for a while to see how things develope. In any case he should be alive and kicking in any coming Almanacs, and I do consider Rad one of the most important entities in Mystara these days so he should be a central figure in any works concerning the future. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:41:58 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania In a message dated 98-02-16 20:46:33 EST, you write: << >Rough overveiw of the Milenian City/States >Obviously, the city/states are based on Greece. However, I have them portrayed >as a mix of the period of decline and a hint of the period leading up to RW Greek Golden Age. This is to demonstrate the "empire lost" aspect as well as form a basis for a potentially new dynasty. I have done the same in my portrayals of the different city-states. As you'll see from the files I sent you today. Certain states are on the verge of a renaissance of sorts (Kastelios, Ilioiloosti), others are in decline (Cyclonia), and still more are becoming very militaristic (Mivosia). And of course some are just trying to survive (Polakatsikes - but wait until the 1015 Almanac comes out, what a surprise it will be!, Kalavronti, Telos Takesidhi, and Hrissopoli. [snipped] Geoff>> Frightening ain't it? We seem to be working along the same lines. Though I admit that you have progressed much further along than I. One thing that I have diverted from was the city/states presented in PWA. I do have them included into the equation but have had them as just the fringe of the main body of the whole city/states. PWa says the Milenians moved inland but doesn't say how far. As such, there are some that could be further south and not within the range of the map of Davania. For this reason, societies not normally considered Greek are used (Troy, Tyre, Crete, etc). Speaking of the Net Almanac, perhaps it is time a massive expedition is launched to explore the Davanian continent. Thus adding character to the descriptions. Make it a multi national affair. A race of sorts to explore the continent. Karameikos, Darokin, Minrothad, and of course NACE and Thyatis seem suitable participants. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:34:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Morrow Subject: [MYSTARA] - Survey Response *********************** Quasi-Canon Material Survey ******************** Please indicate whether you use the following materials in your campaign: CULTURES - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER YOU USE THE FOLLOWING CULTURES IN YOUR CAMPAIGN WORLD The Darine 3. Don't know about them The Ungolwaith 2. Do not use Kargoyles (did I get this right Marco?) 2. Do not use Lhomarrians and Selhomarr 2. Do not use Kaarjala 3. Don't know about it MOrient (I know it's quiet right now, but there was a lot of stuff on the list about it) 4. Modified it to fit my world TIMELINES/HISTORICAL EVENTS - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER THE FOLLOWING EVENTS OR TIMELINES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN YOUR CAMPAIGN The Carnifex Tyranny Undecided The Carnifex of Y'hog 2. Do not include in campaign Undersea Timeline 2. Do not include ini my campaign Varellyan Timeline Undecided Hyborian Timeline 2. Do not include in campaign PERSONAL PREFERENCES - PLEASE INDICATE YOUR CHOICE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS Races/Cultures 1. More new races/cultures "Lost History" (by this I mean details on dead cultures and such) 1. More lost history General Impressions - how do you feel about quasi-canon material being discussed on the list? 4. I really don't care Final comments - please write below any messages and such that you wish to share with those who work on quasi-canon material: Although I wouldnt use most of it, I find the QCM material facinating. The discussions on how to classify material, however, bore me to death. I get the MML in digest form and its rather irritating when half of a given digest pertains not to Mystara itself, but how to classify material I have already seen and decided to use or discard without any help from the rest of the list. Since by sending this back to the list I am contributing to the very wasted space which irritates me, you all have my profound apologies. - -III *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:20:51 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Morrow Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Immortal Candidates <<...He believes now his duty to arrange for the coming back of the Alfheimers to Canolbarth. Doriath is already on the Path (he probably contacted Ordana in Wendar) and there are good opportunities that regaining Alfheim and transforming it into a different type of country will be a major step towards immortality. As for the device of time traveling, well, there is still time to look for that (after all he's an elf). Now the primary objective is to reclaim Alfheim (Doriath feels dutiful towards his elves), and the chances seem to increase day after day. This is the way i see it and i think the way it will be handled in the almanac. Doriath would never go to Norwold: too far away, too risky, too many different "foreign" elves.>> And yet he planned to do just that before Wrath. Even considering that he was already the King of a strong nation. I had thought of the Doriath in Alfheim option as well, but it somehow escaped my original post. I think I put it on a later post, but it may have been eaten again... I actually tend to like this option a little better, as well. Anyway, my reason for interjecting here is to ask- has anyone developed any of these time travelling artifacts that are supposed to be floating around all over. With the exception of the Blackmore Comeback Inn/ Inn Between Worlds, which almost certainly had Immortals of Time involved in its construction (perhaps Verthandi, or Khronos predecessor), I dont recall any time travelling device actually detailed in published material. Several are mentioned- but dont receive much specific attention. <<<> The involvement of Ka is a nice touch. I agree he should be alive. I don't agree on the "commerce of would-be immortals" between Thanatos and Orcus: it's silly. Also, it is the human who must petition to the immortal, not the contrary....>> I always get into trouble for that because I dont explain myself fully. Although mortals petition their chosen Immortal, it is my contention that the Immortals are involved in the process long before the actual petition takes place. The Immortals are always looking for followers, and potential Immortals are about the most attractive of the bunch. I would imagine that high level mortals, searching for information on Immortality, are watched pretty closely once they turn up. If they dont follow a particular Immortal already, they probably stumble across several attractive looking posibilities when trying to decide who to petition. Which is not to say that if they petition one of the Immortals angling to recruit them they are going to have an easier time of it. Once theyve petitioned one Immortal, that Immortal has a bit on a monopoly on them. The other Immortals are less likely to accept a petition from a mortal who went to someone else first, so said mortal is stuck trying to make their would be patron happy. So even if the Immortal denies the mortals petition the first time, hes got a hold on the potential candidate thereafter. Did that all make sense? As for the Thanatos/ Orcus thing, you could really cut out Thanatos altogether and still be okay. What I envisioned was Thanatos hearing about Kaladan, deciding that he was too much risk for too little gain, but still someone to be watched. Big- T doesnt want Hel getting her hooks into a potential candidate, even one as iffy as Kaladan. So he lets the information, through several stages of intermediaries, come to the attention of Orcus. Orcus, not being as discerning a character, jumps at the idea, and the next week Kaladan stumbles across a tome talking about the Great Immortal Orcus, or even encounters a cleric. Anyway Orcus just happens to support just the kind of meyhem and chaos that Kaladan is big on... And so it goes. Just imagine what would happen if Kaladan could get his hands on the Belt of Orcus (from M4). <<<> Two reasons for a magic item: 1- It would fulfill one of his requirements for gaining Immortality. 2- However things turn out in Alfheim I was planning to have it lost, and turn up in a couple decades, part of a quest by an adventurer trying to fulfill Al-Kalims Dream of the Desert Garden. Of course this is all IMC. The component ideas were just off the top of my head, of course there are more. I included Blackflame because I think that its unique properties (to burn ash and produce wood, for example) could be altered to revurse the corruption of the forest- some kind of revursing the progress from life to death thing, I dont really have it all figured out yet. <> The idea that Morphail has been working toward Immortality all this time is an interesting one. My impression from Gaz 3 was that Alphaks had not yet formally agreed to sponsor Morphail. As of 1000AC, Morphail isnt 30th level, so shouldnt be eligible to officialy petition for a sponsor anyway. The artifact idea is interesting. Im currently working on an idea about how Morphail become a nosferatu involving Zemiros Sulescu, the Traldaran nosferatu from Gaz 1 and K:KoA. <> We prefer having him in Norwold, taunting his nemesis Coiger de Mory, right Herve? ;)>> I would like to hear your ideas about integrating Bohns quest for Immortality into Norwold. Would you make Norwold his adopted country which his path revolves around? M2 makes Bohn a stranger to Norwold and already started on his path. I had assumed that he was already working on some other country at that point, but there is certainly no real reason for that to be the case. - -III *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:00:35 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania In a message dated 98-02-16 22:08:06 EST, you write: << This is a good idea! Question, where should we put Corisa (ruined)? I see the possibility of a good monster-bashiing adventure, or at least a good dungeon crawl. >> My thought exactly. Plus the lost Corisa could be a symbolic and physical part of rebuilding the Empire. Long lost artifacts and knowledge could lay awaiting for someone with the ambition and drive to discover and use. <> How about a library containing ancient scrolls to add knowledge to the would be hero's inventory in his bid to rebuild the Empire. Then there is ancient armor and arms to benefit the hero in his quest. Possibly even afford a link of guidance to one or more of the Milenian Immortals. <> Bonuses to wisdom and intelligence are feasible as well as the mass combat bonuses. However, the ability to gain and more importantly use the laurel would be a final act of empire building, after a large proportion of the city/states have found unity. <> I agree on all points. And might I add that the acheivements could talley up to a feasible Path to Immortality. And gaining Immortality would be an addedboon in protecting the rebuilt Empire from certain Immortals such as Vanya. <> Off hand I'd say the mixed blood Milenians would be percieved as outsiders. But these people could be either opposed or for or split on rebuilding the Empire. Perhaps their sway could be quite deciding on sucess or failure. Afterall, Macedonia was not truly a Greek domain. And the Greeks are quite proud of Alexander. Their place in the new empire would depend on the hero's attitudes, lineage, and the peoples role in the matter. <> To be honest, I haven't thought of either of them as yet. In fact, the latter (Niscosenia) is not readily known to me. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:12:47 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Gaz In a message dated 98-02-17 05:15:54 EST, you write: << Alex Benson wrote: >I like the idea. But I have a problem. I have adopted a template that I used in detailing the Hinterland Clans, the Emerond, and the Milenian City/States. >Needless to say the description is quite lengthy as each nations cities/towns are described. Plus key NPCs are briefly details. Then there are some local notes concerning each settlement. I also had planned to have the description dated at AC1000. And after the AC1015 Almanac was issued an update be drawn up. And subsequently reupdated every five years afterward. <> Well the NPCs for the capital city of Rardish number some 16 and I had to stop myself at that number. Royal family members make up a large portion. Remeber how Alphatians do not necessarily marry and settle down. The royal family bears several children from different parentage parings. Of note are the infamous batch produced by the former kings "keeping company" with a a non mage. Then there are the three Grand Council Members that reside in Rardish. Each NPC gives added insight to the character of not only Rardish but the kingdom itself. >I am currently working up a description of Randel and will post it shortly. We're waiting impatiently ;) >> Oh I will post it. But it may be in segments. Daly is doing Bettelyn. Given the relationship between Randel and Bettelyn, we have several details to work out. Rardish is almost complete and bears little in regards to our unsettled details. I'll post Rardish first. I think you'll find my version of the capital interesting and surprising. However, it will be fitting. The segmented nature will explain itself as the descriptions are posted. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:25:16 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Re: Immortal Candidates In a message dated 98-02-17 06:44:57 EST, you write: << > Would u like Etienne back as Immortal or mortal on the path to immortality, >guys (and gals)? I'd prefer as Immortal (possibly weakened). Anyway, since that point really hangs upon how well the PCs do in Mark of Amber, I think we shouldn't mention a lot about this in the Almanac. Probably having him Immortal is best (if he is mortal in someone's campaign, it's easy to adjust). >> Not sure how I missed this one. Thanks Aleksei for responding to it. And pointing it out to me. I prefer Etienne as a mortal. IMC his Immortal power was drained to alter the NoS to Entropy as well as feed the immediate draw of magical energy. The Old Ones returned him to mortal life based on the Etienne the mortal. IMO the Old Ones were well aware of who Rad/Etienne was (same for all Mortal Identities). The mortal Etienne works for me because it is a way for him to shown the consequences of his little disagreement with Ixion. IMO the fault lies with Rad as he refused to stop the study of the Radiance. IXion was the more good guy. Really he was a lighter shade of gray. Rad a darker. And Brotherhood of the Shadow black as pitch. As a mortal, Etienne can focus himself to rebuilding the damage done. If he chooses to pursue Immortality then it is open. Perhaps the atonement could be integrated into the Path. And yes he would have to use a Path and not the Radiance. Wouldn't it be ironic if Ixion had to be his sponser. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:40:48 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Survey Response In a nutshell: A list like this should use the Glorantha and RuneQuest lists as models. Whatever is posted to the list is given free rein, without anal insistence upon classification as regards to "canonicity". When possible, the source of a piece of information is to be identified. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:49:26 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words << I though the ending "nam" had some meaning in itself. Guess not then, huh? >> No, it was just a German word. Indeed, besides "Der Leichnam" there is "Die Leiche", too. AFAIK, only variations of the same theme. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:49:29 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words << Does anyone else know IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet)? It would help a lot in this discussion. >> I fear, it wouldn't. Or can you write it with the available codepages? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:01:57 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Reply *********************** Quasi-Canon Material Survey ******************** Please indicate whether you use the following materials in your campaign: CULTURES - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER YOU USE THE FOLLOWING CULTURES IN YOUR CAMPAIGN WORLD The Darine 4. I [plan to] modified them to fit my world The Ungolwaith 3. Don't know about them Kargoyles 3. Don't know about them Lhomarrians and Selhomarr 3. Don't know about them Kaarjala 3. Don't know about it MOrient 4. I [plan to] modified them to fit my world TIMELINES/HISTORICAL EVENTS - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER THE FOLLOWING EVENTS OR TIMELINES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN YOUR CAMPAIGN The Carnifex Tyranny 3. Don't know enough about it The Carnifex of Y'hog 3. Don't know enough about it Undersea Timeline 4. [plan to] Modified it to fit my world Varellyan Timeline 3. Don't know enough about it Hyborian Timeline 3. Don't know enough about it PERSONAL PREFERENCES - PLEASE INDICATE YOUR CHOICE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS Races/Cultures 1. More new races/cultures "Lost History" (by this I mean details on dead cultures and such) 1. More lost history General Impressions - how do you feel about quasi-canon material being discussed on the list? 4. I really don't care FINAL COMMENTS please write below any messages and such that you wish to share with those who work on quasi-canon material: First, let me say that I am not overly fond of the 'TSR Canon' vs. 'Net Quasi-Canon' vs. 'IMC' debates on this list. I don't know about anyone else, by MY Mystara is nothing like any one else's Mystara -- not TSR's or even the Mystara's belonging to the two other DM's I play as a PC with -- and I wouldn't want it to be the same anyway. Personally, I like to see and read as much material about any region or society that might be useful in my campaign because then I can pick and chose the bits that I want to use. My PC's might do something that affects things IMC such that certain other things couldn't possibly happen! Or, something that some timeline places at time X may happen at time Y or not happen at all in my Mystara. Case in point: My campain is currently in 999AC. WOI doesn't happen for a while from then and besides, I don't own that resource (someone else in my playing group does, but she won't let anyone else see it because she wants to DM it herself someday). As a result, Wrath may never, ever happen in MY version of Mystara -- and that's just fine with me. In fact, with the large number of individuals who are concerned with 'canon' material, I occationally get a bit annoyed that so many ideas presented ignore the original era of the Gazetter series in favour of 'post wrath' stuff. Just because TSR (or the net) have 'already written' what happens between 1000 and whenever Wrath happens doesn't mean that time deserves to be ignored. What we, as individuals, want to have happen in those time periods is just as important (IMHO) as what has been defined. Don't get me wrong, I don't MIND that there are people interested in determining what is 'TSR Canon' and 'Net Canon'. The work they do gives me a much better and larger set of resources to plagerize from ;-) I just think that those of us who don't CARE if everything we talk about is 'canon' shouldn't be put down for wanting to discuss it here. I much prefer twining my own ideas around the ideas presented by TSR and the net community, and I want to hear how other players have done the same. Insisting that the only ideas that can be discussed are those which are considered 'canon' (of whatever form) is just plain silly. Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 13:26:46 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Reply >First, let me say that I am not overly fond of the 'TSR Canon' vs. 'Net Quasi-Canon' vs. 'IMC' debates on this list. I don't know about anyone else, by MY Mystara is nothing like any one else's Mystara -- not TSR's or even the Mystara's belonging to the two other DM's I play as a PC with -- and I wouldn't want it to be the same anyway. Personally, I like to see and read as much material about any region or society that might be useful in my campaign because then I can pick and chose the bits that I want to use. I think you are right. My thought is on the new guy who joins the list and attempts to post some thoughts about...whatever...let's say he has an idea regarding Selenica that (known or unknown to him) conflicts with something I have written regarding that city. I think he should feel free to write his ideas to the list because hey! his ideas may very well be better than mine. Or better for a particular DM. No one should shout him down just because I got to the material "first". >My PC's might do something that affects things IMC such that certain other things couldn't possibly happen! Absolutely. Part of the fun in my campaign is having the pcs affect the world in ways I had not even foreseen!...much less ways some designer foresaw... Or, something that some timeline >places at time X may happen at time Y or not happen at all in my Mystara. Case in point: My campain is currently in 999AC. WOI doesn't happen for a while from then and besides, I don't own that resource (someone else in my playing group does, but she won't let anyone else see it because she wants to DM it herself someday). As a result, Wrath may never, ever happen in MY version of Mystara -- and that's just fine with me. Yeah, me too. My campaign is into AC 1014 and WotI has not happened yet. I plan on it happening in the future but there is too much to see and do in the present right now! How can my pcs possibly appreciate all the destruction in Thyatis if they have never even explored the place?? In fact, with the >large number of individuals who are concerned with 'canon' material, I occationally get a bit annoyed that so many ideas presented ignore the original era of the Gazetter series in favour of 'post wrath' stuff. Just because TSR (or the net) have 'already written' what happens between 1000 and whenever Wrath happens doesn't mean that time deserves to be ignored. What we, as individuals, want to have happen in those time periods is just as important (IMHO) as what has been defined. All of the stuff I write assumes AC1000. I have found though that I really have to put that into the message or some readers get confused. I can't really blame them since a whole empire and numerous npcs that I may be discussing are missing in their campaign. The funny thing is that we are both talking "canon" its just that I am talking earlier canon than they. >Don't get me wrong, I don't MIND that there are people interested in determining what is 'TSR Canon' and 'Net Canon'. The work they do gives me a much better and larger set of resources to plagerize from ;-) I just think that those of us who don't CARE if everything we talk about is 'canon' shouldn't be put down for wanting to discuss it here. I much prefer twining my own ideas around the ideas presented by TSR and the net community, and I want to hear how other players have done the same. Insisting that the only ideas that can be discussed are those which are considered 'canon' (of whatever form) is just plain silly. Absolutely. Especially if the definition of canon is going to be expanded to include non-TSR material. Jeff Daly...who's sister was always fond of strawberries... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:49:56 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Survey Response At 12:40 PM 2/17/98 -0500, bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >In a nutshell: A list like this should use the Glorantha and RuneQuest lists as models. Whatever is posted to the list is given free rein, without anal insistence upon classification as regards to "canonicity". When possible, the source of a piece of information is to be identified. Hear Hear! That pretty much sums up what I was trying to get at in my 'comments at the end of my Survey Response. Why stiffle our imaginations by trying to pigeonhole what we share into some sort of 'canonical' hierachy. Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #85 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:37:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #86 Reply-To: mystara@MPGN.COM mystara-digest Tuesday, February 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 086 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Survey Response Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ochaelan cities Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) Re: [MYSTARA] - General Gilfronden [MYSTARA] - Thothia Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac timeline Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma Re: [MYSTARA] - Name of a monster Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Norwold Civil War Re: [MYSTARA] - Survey Response Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:05:51 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Survey Response On Tue, 17 Feb 1998 bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >In a nutshell: A list like this should use the Glorantha and RuneQuest lists as models. Whatever is posted to the list is given free rein, without anal insistence upon classification as regards to "canonicity". When possible, the source of a piece of information is to be identified. I agree to some degree. However, this list is in some ways very different from those list since Mystara AFAIK to a greater degree in undeveloped. And I do think it's a great idea if rpg material from various sources are compatible with eachother as well as with TSR canon. Or that it states where material is in conflict. It would save me a lot of time. Just for the record: I am not opposed to material being posted here that conflicts both "Net-canon" and TSR canon. Anything vaguely concerning Mystara is of interest to me. I think this debate is healthy, though I hope it in no way dicourages members to submit their material. I am not suggesting that it should be required that all members are familiar with everything concerning Mystara either. If someone posts material which is in conflict with other material(offcicial or not, this should only result in constructive discussions on how to make it fit with the rest of the works done if possible. Ramblings seem to be frequent on this list. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:15:56 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Thorfinn Tait wrote: >Does anyone else know IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet)? It would help a lot in this discussion. I do. But how do you get those symbols into your emails? I heard you were talking about a Website for prononciations of names and words in Mystara. Sounds like a great idea. Go for it. :) Sincerely Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 13:27:07 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon The only thing I'd have to say on the subject is there has to be something that is accepted as canon. You have to have a foundation to build upon. I consider the net-almanac as that foundation since TSR has discontinued the setting. Though the list serves to offer new ideas for expanding our own version, we have to have something to build toward or we become a place that shares ideas only for those DMing the setting and leave out the another important group, the players or those that wish to write stories based in the world. Canon doesn't mean we have to use it, just that it is the accepted vision of the world. As an example, current canon says that half-elves exist. I don't like half-elves as presented in AD&D PHB so whenever I encounter them I change them. It doesn't make canon any less real but brings it closer to my vision and so, make it easier for me to use. The net-almanac is a way to keep the setting alive in its fans eyes. Not using it doesn't make a campaign anymore less important but it brings us all to a common meeting place in which ideas can grow from and where we can point at for what we've changed. In reality, the almanac is just one part of this list and canon is just a word that carries no more weigh than we wish. Just my two cents. - ------------------------------------------------------------- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ - ---------- >From: Neal Daskal To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] - Net canon >Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 4:28 AM >So please don't spend a lot of time trying to label any consensus as anything more "holy" than that. Each of us may publish our own ideas and develop them as we wish. We are also all free to form groups of any size to do same in concert. But please don't try to rom >build a "net-canon" based on, at best, a couple of hundred mailing list participants. And BTW, keep labeling the various ideas based on d whose they are - it helps those of us (me at least) who have personal preferences :). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 13:59:27 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia Mystara? I'm in the process of doing something like this. I'm currently working on indexing people and places in the source materials available to me. It's a long process not only because of the amount but because I'm using good old pen and paper (my favorite way to write) and notecards. Once I have all the information on the cards, I can form some sort of database out of it with all the information (don't have a computer database program I like yet but will probably use the one in Works as the start and then create reports from that). I chose this method since many things were changed and some left out completely in later sources with out the timeframe stated well. So far, I've not indexed spells and magic items as I'm not sure if this will not be just recopying materials already available to everyone. Since this will be derived material, I plan to talk to TSRs webmaster (who ever that is now that Sean is no longer overseeing it) about posting it on the Mystara page (unless they think it okay to have on private sites. Hard to know exactly how friendly their online policy is). Afterwards, I plan to use the index to create a Player's Guide to Mystara that does not include rule material but only gives a newcomer everything available about the setting for whatever use he sees fit. I also decided not to include rule materials because of the discrepancies between D&D and AD&D. Computers crash, paper only crumples. - ------------------------------------------------------------- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:41:32 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Galwylin wrote: >the accepted vision of the world. As an example, current canon says that half-elves exist. I don't like half-elves as presented in AD&D PHB so Half-elves are AD&D. Mixing AD&D into Mystara is polluting it. So much for "canon". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:36:20 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, DM wrote: >Yes, definitely another good character to use. Uhm.. could he be working with Heydrech, that nagpa of the Grey Front in Serraine (he was fascinated with undead)? Could also be Mystara's Dr. Frankenstein.. (i personally have a couple of Frankensteins playing around with life and corpses..) I've always considered Viscount Rolf von Graustein to be Mystara's Dr. Frankenstein... in fact, I've almost got the first page of my comic ready to put online, which deals with that particular character in some fashion... he's not a main character, but he's definitely got ties to them. More as this breaking story (which has been in development for far too long now... I'm slow) develops... - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:40:07 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ochaelan cities On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, DM wrote: >So what's the explanation? Two maps display it, and the remaining don't: why? I have come up with three hypothesis: >1) the town existed back in AC1000 but is then collapsed during WotI for various reasons (both political and arcane?); 2) the town was already only a ruined settlement back in AC1000 (thieves' lair and pirates' hideout probably) >3) the town exists but is not recognized by the authorities because it refuses to acknowledge the power of the King, so it's been erased from the modern maps. There's 4) it was forgotten by subsequent cartographers (which has been known to happen with Mystara maps, etc, before), but that's a non-in-game theory, and you seem to be looking for game theories... How about this one (admittedly far-fetched)- It was sucked into Ravenloft due to the evil nature of it's ruler? - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:30:50 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >>Which reminds me- we could always use that Re-Animator guy (can't think of his name offhand- he had a short story written about him) as a model for one of the wizards in Blackheart. That was a good story, too. A lot more "gore-horror" than "gothic-horror", but good nevertheless. >You mean Herbert West? That's him. He'd make for a pretty good Blackheart-ian wizard. Maybe next year we can include a "throwaway" entry in the almanac about him and his experiments in Blackheart. A one-shot adventure hook for PCs. Which reminds me, I came up with a good "RW" Mystara-ized character while reading DDA2 last night. He's based on the RW fictional character of Richard Sharpe, from Bernard Cornwell's novels (Sharpe's Eagle, in particular). DDA2 mentions how devastating it is for Thyatian's morale to lose one of their standards in battle. I thought the Richard Sharpe character could be an Isle of Dawner who captured one of the Legionnaire's standards during Wrath, much like Sharpe captures a French Eagle. He could be a famous NPC on the Isle of Dawn. I'll try to remember to include him for next year's almanac... - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:05:08 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - General Gilfronden At 11.43 17/02/98 +0100, DM wrote: >At 08.26 17/02/98 +0200, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >>Can somebody with GAZ5 explain to me the position of General Gilfronden. I've seen him called a Shadow Elf and a friend of Doriath, so what gives? What is his position in Aengmor (Fabrizio?) >I'll answer this one, though i'm sure Brizio can add something later :) Not much. >he won't harm Doriath if he can avoid it. You'll see what happens to him in this year's almanac (though i don't know if u'll like what i planned :)). And, if Rafiel allows it, you'll see him in the following almanacs too. DM forgot to say that your question was a good one, because even the net-almanac editor asked us about him a few weeks ago. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:47:34 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thothia Here's a question/comment that I came up with while scouring all the old modules for any hint of canonical Mystaran information. In module M5: Talons of Night, it states that Tokoramses V was Pharoah of Thothia during the Thyatian/Alphatian peace talks c. 2 BC or thereabouts, and that Tokoramses X (IIRC) was the last pharoah of the Tokoramses line before Ramenhotep I took over the reigns of Thothia. Yet the Hollow World and later sources state that Thothia was founded by Prince Ramenhotep I. Personally, I prefer having Thothia founded by Tokoramses, and Ramenhotep taking over later on... if only because it means that, with only 23 Ramenhoteps thus far (not counting the current one, who took over in 1002 AC), each one must have ruled, on average, something like 80+ years. Which I personally don't much care for, but, YMMV. On another note, it wasn't until Ramenhotep X that the new brand of Thothian mysticism came in and replaced the worship of Rathanos (mentioned in M5 as a *minor* Immortal of the Magian Fire Worshipper pantheon). So it wasn't until sometime in the ACs (c. 400 or so, by my count) that the Aranea and Arachne Prime contacted Ramenhotep and instilled their "spider" worship. Just a few thoughts. What do the rest of you think? - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Feb 1998 18:41:50 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon >On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Galwylin wrote: >>the accepted vision of the world. As an example, current canon says that half-elves exist. I don't like half-elves as presented in AD&D PHB so >Half-elves are AD&D. Mixing AD&D into Mystara is polluting it.I don't think that Half-elves are for AD&D. In my game there is a player who read the Cronicles of the Dragon Lance, and he loved very much the past of Tanis. So he is a elf but with the past of Tanis. He is a half-elf but he don't have any penalitys or bonuses. Just some problems with Alfheim. Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:25:52 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac timeline On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, james mishler wrote: >My web page has a copy of my History of Blackmoor on it... I think Shawn's site does, also. It details a bit more than the 100 years between DA1 and the GRoF... Hey! Welcome back, Mystaros! Good to see you around again! - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:27:33 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Matthew Levy wrote: >Similarly, it is likely that during the "dark ages" between the collapse of the Nithian Empire and the invasion of the Alasiyan by the Thyatins and Alphatians about 1000 years later, there was SOMETHING going on in the area ... for one thing, Gnolls probably moved through Dythestenia on their way to attack King Halav's people in the south, but there were probably also human inhabitants ... This much is definitely alluded to in many places. Goblinoid activity in the Rockhome region was going on long before Queen Udbala raised her horde to attack (and get wiped out) at Sardal Pass in 492 BC. >since the Nithians themselves were wiped out, a likely candidate for these intermediary inhabitants is a quasi-Hellenistic culture related to the Milenians and Traldar ... GAZ2 mentions that the Alaysiyans and the Nithians are not the same people. Though most of the Nithians were wiped out, the Alasiyan nomadic culture was still active in the region. >among these people's city-states was, most likely, Cynidicea. Now, as the originally hospitable grasslands on the edge of the Dythestenian hills were gradually encroached upon by the spreading of the Alasiyan desert following the casting of the Elves' weather alteration spell, these Cynidiceans may have been driven underground in search of water, ultimately becoming insane as well (maybe their wells were spiked with hallucinogens? maybe their water source is contaminated by the quasi-demon Zargon?) There was more going on than just the elves' spell. GAZ2 (which, I don't think, has often been considered in later canon, admittedly) mentions that the highlands of Nithia were raised, and the Alaysiyan desert basin was lowered... I'd argue that this was the Immortal's direct work, which served to redirect the River Nithia and contribute to the fall of the Nithian Empire. The elves' spells certainly didn't help things at all, though. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:42:16 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Name of a monster On Tue, 17 Feb 1998 3@giga.com.ar wrote: >Another problem while traducing the X1 to spanish. I'll write the caracteristic and a description of a monster, can you try to write me the name of the monster? [Stats snipped] >The ?????? are giant Goblins. (nothing else). >How's the name of the monster? Sounds like Bugbears to me. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:05:39 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia Mystara? On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >I just want to say its a great idea. I hope someone will get around to it. If I get some inspiration I will make an easy guide to mystara material online. Any suggestions about what should be included are welcome. One question though. Which of the timelines is the most extensive? The one on thorf's or the one on Cthulhudrews websites? Or are they the same? To be honest, I'm not entirely sure. I've only skimmed Thorf's. Mine is based on the timeline initially compiled by Daniel Boese, but with all sorts of other information on it that I've gleaned from canon sources (everything that I've added is marked with the source, and Daniel had some sources already there; anything non-canonical is indicated as well, I think). There is still a lot of info that I haven't added in yet- from the 1st part of Lycanthropy on, IIRC. I know that Thorf's project is similar to mine, but I don't know how far he has gotten with it, nor if he has added birthdates (where given)- which I have... even though it clutters things a bit. (The main reason was to see where certain people may have had involvement with historical activities, etc.) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:08:10 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3BBE.3E29E540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable Actually, Bruce Heard (I believe) introduced half-elves in one of his Dragon articles for D&D Mystara and I accept just about every word of Bruce's as gospel. ;) - ------------------------------------------------------------- This has been a Galwylin=A9 Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ - ---------- >From: bjm10@cornell.edu >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon >Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 2:41 PM =20 >=20 >=20 >On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Galwylin wrote: >=20 >>the accepted vision of the world. As an example, current canon says that >>half-elves exist. I don't like half-elves as presented in AD&D PHB s= o >=20 >Half-elves are AD&D. Mixing AD&D into Mystara is polluting it. =20 >So much for "canon". >=20 *************************************************************************= ** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3BBE.3E29E540 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable

Actually, Bruce Heard (I believe) = introduced half-elves in one of his Dragon articles for D&D Mystara = and I accept just about every word of Bruce's as gospel. = ;)

-------------------------------------------------------------This has been a Galwylin=A9 Production

galwylin@airnet.net = (ICQ #6755972)
http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/


----------
> From: bjm10@cornell.edu
> To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon
> = Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 2:41 PM
>
>
> =
> On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Galwylin wrote:
>
> > the = accepted vision of the world.  As an example, current canon says = that
> > half-elves exist.  I don't like half-elves as = presented in AD&D PHB so
>
> Half-elves are AD&D. =  Mixing AD&D into Mystara is polluting it.
>
> So = much for "canon".
>
> = *************************************************************************= **
> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with = the line
> 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message.

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3BBE.3E29E540-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:06:53 PST From: "Martin Edwards" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Norwold Civil War Thanks for the replies on this subject -- very useful and interesting. >>I am currently struggling with the role that Norwold plays in Wrath of the Immortals. Norwold can provide access to overland routes into Glantri (via the Heldannic Territories or via Wendar). However in WotI, Eriadna doesn't utilise these approaches at all, but rather decides in Summer of 1005 to forge a path through the Isle of Dawn and Thyatis..... >Your ideas are well thought out. But I will point out to you two reasons >for Eriadna not to use the overland route through Norwold. >1) A huge amount of untamed wilderness to forge through. >2) Heldann Yes I agree these are both good reasons to avoid using Norwold if at all possible. I am not sure that the Isle of Dawn and Thyatis present an alternative that is any more pleasant however. I may well be underestimating the value of the wilderness-thing. Furthermore, there are routes to Glantri via mountain passes in the west of Norwold through Denagoth and Wendar which avoid having to pass through Heldann. (The maps for DotE, CM1 & M2 also included a river route that allowed direct access from Alpha into the area of Denagoth, though this river disappeared in the WotI map). Unfortunately, I do not own X11 so I am not sure how to assess these two nations in terms of military strength or whether Wendar’s Elvenstar would have any effect on such plans. >I plan on running a modified CM1/M2 module series for those years, with both >empires sending a few troops as a feint. >Another reason was brought up on this list before, and stems from the Dragonlord >series of books. Alphatia knows better than anyone else how powerful the >dragons in Wyrmsteeth really are. This is a very good point and one I had entirely overlooked. I believe that I have found the article referred to (from Herve in digest v02-201). He too seems to be using a variant CM1/M2 war, alongside the threat of the Wyrmsteeth dragons and the unrest caused by the Shiye-Lawr Elves. Martin Edwards ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:24:54 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Survey Response >In a nutshell: A list like this should use the Glorantha and RuneQuest lists as models. Whatever is posted to the list is given free rein, without anal insistence upon classification as regards to "canonicity". When possible, the source of a piece of information is to be identified. Essentially, I am in complete agreement. Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:23:03 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia Mystara? >>I just want to say its a great idea. I hope someone will get around to it. >>If I get some inspiration I will make an easy guide to mystara material online. Any suggestions about what should be included are welcome. This is indeed a fantastic idea. Basically it all comes down to having everything brought together into one sourcework. I would be really enthusiastic to contribute (back when the MML started, I wrote a few essays on the history of the evolution of Mystara through the TSR published works. I revised and expanded that during my hiatus, but I should be able to dig it up somewhere). Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:00:41 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! >*********************** Quasi-Canon Material Survey ******************** >Please indicate whether you use the following materials in your campaign: >CULTURES - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER YOU USE THE FOLLOWING CULTURES IN YOUR >CAMPAIGN WORLD >The Darine >3. Don't know about them >The Ungolwaith >3. Don't know about them >Kargoyles (did I get this right Marco?) 3. Don't know about them >Lhomarrians and Selhomarr >3. Don't know about them >Kaarjala >3. Don't know about it >MOrient (I know it's quiet right now, but there was a lot of stuff on the >list about it) >3. Don't know about it >TIMELINES/HISTORICAL EVENTS - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER THE FOLLOWING EVENTS >OR TIMELINES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN YOUR CAMPAIGN >The Carnifex Tyranny >3. Don't know enough about it >The Carnifex of Y'hog >3. Don't know enough about it >Undersea Timeline >3. Don't know enough about it >Varellyan Timeline >3. Don't know enough about it >Hyborian Timeline >3. Don't know enough about it >PERSONAL PREFERENCES - PLEASE INDICATE YOUR CHOICE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS >Races/Cultures >1. More new races/cultures >"Lost History" (by this I mean details on dead cultures and such) 1. More lost history >General Impressions - how do you feel about quasi-canon material being discussed on the list? >1. Quasi-canon material is fine for discussion >Final comments - please write below any messages and such that you wish to share with those who work on quasi-canon material: >I would just like it if all quasi-canon (or net-canon) material could be identified as such. I prefer for the disctinction to be kept between TSR-published material and stuff from the net. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #86 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:10:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #87 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: a6a2284f5022de63a2805837a9fc5615 Status: RO mystara-digest Wednesday, February 18 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 087 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - archives Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:09:50 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >>Similarly, it is likely that during the "dark ages" between the collapse of the Nithian Empire and the invasion of the Alasiyan by the Thyatins and Alphatians about 1000 years later, there was SOMETHING going on in the area ... for one thing, Gnolls probably moved through Dythestenia on their way to attack King Halav's people in the south, but there were probably also human inhabitants ... >This much is definitely alluded to in many places. Goblinoid activity in the Rockhome region was going on long before Queen Udbala raised her horde to attack (and get wiped out) at Sardal Pass in 492 BC. true. One of the problems of "goblinoid activity" is that historical records are not the forte of the goblin races, and thus accurate information is hard to come by. However, we can of course create a rough sketch of goblin movements from which to posit those human and dwarvish documents which we would like to "discover" from the period, if you catch my drift. >>since the Nithians themselves were wiped out, a likely candidate for these intermediary inhabitants is a quasi-Hellenistic culture related to the Milenians and Traldar ... >GAZ2 mentions that the Alaysiyans and the Nithians are not the same people. Though most of the Nithians were wiped out, the Alasiyan nomadic culture was still active in the region. According to all canon sources I know of, the Alasiyans are descended from a Nithian subject race brought back from the IoD but their culture did not spread out in its present nomadic form until about 200 BC. Even then, they were not numerically strong, being easily conquered by Thyatin and Alphatian colonists. All my theorizing is based upon an analogy to the RW ... ancient Egyptian society was conquered by Hyksos, Assyrians, and Greeks/Romans before finally becoming "Arabized" in the 7th century. Similarly, there were probably various intermediary cultures which predominated in the region during and after the collapse of Nithia and before the ascendance of the modern Alasiyans. Just as RW Arabic culture has incorporated a vast set of Hellenistic influences (probably more than European culture, actually), Alasiyan society is probably heavily influenced by the historical assimilation of Doulakki elements. >There was more going on than just the elves' spell. GAZ2 (which, I don't think, has often been considered in later canon, admittedly) mentions that the highlands of Nithia were raised, and the Alaysiyan desert basin was lowered... I'd argue that this was the Immortal's direct work, which served to redirect the River Nithia and contribute to the fall of the Nithian Empire. The elves' spells certainly didn't help things at all, though. IMO the relationship between these three elements ... Immortal vengeance, Elvish spell, drying of river, is still not clear. perhaps the immortals wanted to deliberately engender confusion as part of their attempt to hide Nithian history from mortal eyes? m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:31:27 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words On Tue, 17 Feb 1998 bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >>Well, it's basically like 'a' in just about every other language than English (like, say, French of German). Also sort of like in British pronunciation of 'last'. >The last time I spoke to some Brits (about ten minutes ago), and they did not say "lust" when they meant "last". The vowel was a little lower than the American vowel, but it was certainly not that incredibly far mutated. Oh, heck, well, let's not stick to irrelevant details, you know what I mean ;) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:30:35 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon << Half-elves are AD&D. Mixing AD&D into Mystara is polluting it. So much for "canon". >> Just so ya know....Mystara was converted to AD&D. So, not mixing it is actually...........non-canon - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:00:36 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Galwylin wrote: >Actually, Bruce Heard (I believe) introduced half-elves in one of his Dragon articles for D&D Mystara and I accept just about every word of Bruce's as gospel. ;) Galwylin, you did it again! I just want to notify you that you've been sending these last posts as attachments, which is bad. Please stop doing that. :) Anyway, you are correct about your information. I dont remember in which issue of Dragon the Half Elves were introduced, but it was the one where the Princess ark visits Robrenn. However, I dont like the way Bruce dealt with this aspect of Mystara and I do have a couple of ideas I want to share with you. (Okay Bruce is holy, but this is a postmodern world so we can pretty much say what we want about our gods, right..;) The most common type of Half Elf is the one which exists all over the world. The result of an affair between human and elf results in a child becoming either human or elf depending on its sex, as described in the Alfheim and Darokin Gazatteers. (If you use the AD&D rules I suggest that you use the AD&D half elves for these) However, there are legends of True Half Elves. The Perfect mix between man and elf. Unknown to the elves of Alfheim, there are a few of these beings living on the Savage Coast. They are only born as the result of very unique relationships between individuals of the two races. Relationships where love is so strong it binds the races together. The True Half Elves have abilities beyond those of other races. I suggest that they are virtually immortal and are very apt with magic. Even more so than the elves. Comments are welcome. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:45:01 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon In a message dated 98-02-18 09:18:00 EST, you write: << Galwylin, you did it again! I just want to notify you that you've been sending these last posts as attachments, which is bad. Please stop doing that. :) Anyway, you are correct about your information. I dont remember in which issue of Dragon the Half Elves were introduced, but it was the one where the Princess ark visits Robrenn. However, I dont like the way Bruce dealt with this aspect of Mystara and I do have a couple of ideas I want to share with you. (Okay Bruce is holy, but this is a postmodern world so we can pretty much say what we want about our gods, right..;) The most common type of Half Elf is the one which exists all over the world. The result of an affair between human and elf results in a child becoming either human or elf depending on its sex, as described in the Alfheim and Darokin Gazatteers. (If you use the AD&D rules I suggest that you use the AD&D half elves for these) However, there are legends of True Half Elves. The Perfect mix between man and elf. Unknown to the elves of Alfheim, there are a few of these beings living on the Savage Coast. They are only born as the result of very unique relationships between individuals of the two races. Relationships where love is so strong it binds the races together. The True Half Elves have abilities beyond those of other races. I suggest that they are virtually immortal and are very apt with magic. Even more so than the elves. Comments are welcome. >> There are no such things as "Half-Elves". I prefer the term "One of Elven Blood" . No creature spawned by the coupling of a human and elf can reasonably fall halfway between the traits of its parentage. This is one of the reasons I disdain the AD&D Half Elf. It is too solid in assigning traits which are in reality as well as reasonability are pretty random. For this reason, I began a project to develop a more reasonable system to create a PC of mixed parentage. Factors such as what race the mother is play a significant part. Not only in the physically inherited traits but also the psycological aspects. I think I sent someone an overveiw of my HE Race some time back. Never heard anything from him. But given that the mail was sent FlashMail it may never have been sent. This has happened in the past. Tommorrow I'll post what I have so far. My main problem has come from dispersing the traits. As yet, the traits are the product of dice rolls. There has got to be a better way. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:05:25 -0600 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - archives We had some bad lightning down here in 'bama and our mail server got fried.... so I lost all my email... I'm simply thrilled about that... I thought this was archived someplace but I couldn't remember or find it... most likely I had reference to it archived in my own email... but that's gone now... heh... some assistance please. ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:30:15 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 Alex295@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-18 09:18:00 EST, Haavard write: >There are no such things as "Half-Elves". I prefer the term "One of Elven Blood" . No creature spawned by the coupling of a human and elf can reasonably fall halfway between the traits of its parentage. This is one of the reasons I disdain the AD&D Half Elf. It is too solid in assigning traits which are in reality as well as reasonability are pretty random. Note that I based my previous mail on references from the Elves Of Alfheim Gazetteer, where it is stated that there are legends about HEs, the perfect combination of Elf and Human. >For this reason, I began a project to develop a more reasonable system to create a PC of mixed parentage. Factors such as what race the mother is play a significant part. Not only in the physically inherited traits but also the psycological aspects. Sounds somewhat interesting, but it would probably be better to allow each player come up witn reasonable suggestions for traits for his PC. Systems tend to be to clunky and might result in a PC the player doesn't care much for, especially when dice rolling is involved. >I think I sent someone an overveiw of my HE Race some time back. Never heard anything from him. But given that the mail was sent FlashMail it may never have been sent. This has happened in the past. >Tommorrow I'll post what I have so far. My main problem has come from dispersing the traits. As yet, the traits are the product of dice rolls. There has got to be a better way. See my comment above. I have a personal dislike for any part of character generation over which the player has no control. Humbly Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:39:03 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words At 15:14 16-02-98 +0100, you wrote: >On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >>At 11:46 12-02-98 -0500, you wrote: >>>On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >>>>What does the word Lich originally mean? >>>Lich meant "corpse" in the 12th-13th centuries, which is why the gate through which funeral processions passed into the churchyard was known as the "lichgate". >>This is funny. The Danish word for corpse is lig. >Funny I didnt think about this before. When you pronounce it in German it makes much more sence than with the English pronounciation. >What is the danish name for Lich (if any) The norwegian D&d rules never got beyond the Expert set.. Neither did the Danish D&D rules, and I have never found a satisfying translation, byt it haven't been a problem yet, as I have only once used a lich and a that time the players were familiar with his first name, so I didn't need to call it a lich. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:39:12 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >elves, shadowleves, dwarves snipped Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:10:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #87 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: a6a2284f5022de63a2805837a9fc5615 Status: RO >I agree with you on the subject of elves - they are a fascinating culture, and Mystara would be so much poorer without them. I myself would be opposed to any plans to have them all disappear from the world in the future, as is happening in the Forgotten Realms (yes Evermeet is on Toril, but it may as well be on another planet) and has already happened in Lord of the Rings. >Mystara just wouldn't be the same without them. Another old thread resurrected. If we're creating a new golden age for elves, how about changing the race a litle to make Mystara elves a bit more unique? Some of the future events might cause such changes. ie. The elves from EarthDawn grow thorns in their skin. They do this because by giving themselves constant pain, they avoid being harassed by the Horrors, who like to pester anyone who is happy. So if you ever see an elf with thorns growing from his skin, you'll know he is from EarthDawn. Any suggestions for changes of our elves that will make them more unique? Or was this a bad idea? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:47:30 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania At 09:59 16-02-98 EST, you wrote: >One question I have is the names. Is their any reason why the Milenian names of HW could not be used. With Alphatia, the names of towns and cities stayed as they were when it was in the KW. So technically, the Milenian (HW) capital's name of Corisa could be used as a name for one of the KW city/states. Then there are derivatives of the old Traldar settlements such as >Krakatos. Neither do I and it would at times be lovingly confusing. "Hey, WE named this town first, you're the ones who are copying everything" Two Milenians discussing the origin of the town names. Especially the derivatives of old traldar settlements is a good idea. It would be an alternate basis for an archaeological adventure, where the PCs start with the knowledge of the Milenian town name and start to back track it in Karameikos to finally discover an, untill then, long lost ruined town. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:57:06 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Håvard(me): >>What is the danish name for Lich (if any) The norwegian D&d rules never got beyond the Expert set.. Lille My: >Neither did the Danish D&D rules, and I have never found a satisfying translation, byt it haven't been a problem yet, as I have only once used a lich and a that time the players were familiar with his first name, so I didn't need to call it a lich. Well. I agree that Liches should be pretty unique. I dont think calling them Lik/Lig would be a good idea either.. Ligmand/Likmann sounds clumsy too. Well, maybe I'll think of something Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:05:46 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >Neither do I and it would at times be lovingly confusing. >"Hey, WE named this town first, you're the ones who are copying everything" Two Milenians discussing the origin of the town names. >Especially the derivatives of old traldar settlements is a good idea. It would be an alternate basis for an archaeological adventure, where the PCs start with the knowledge of the Milenian town name and start to back track it in Karameikos to finally discover an, untill then, long lost ruined town. How advanced was the culture of the Milenians when they lived on Brun? I just realized the potential for adventure here... Any ideas? Håvard, who's taken up the habit of posting these short annoying emails.. *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:04:12 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes At 04:39 PM 2/18/98 +0100, you wrote: >On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >>elves, shadowleves, dwarves snipped >>I agree with you on the subject of elves - they are a fascinating culture, and Mystara would be so much poorer without them. I myself would be opposed to any plans to have them all disappear from the world in the future, as is happening in the Forgotten Realms (yes Evermeet is on Toril, but it may as well be on another planet) and has already happened in Lord of the Rings. >>Mystara just wouldn't be the same without them. >Another old thread resurrected. >If we're creating a new golden age for elves, how about changing the race a litle to make Mystara elves a bit more unique? Some of the future events might cause such changes. >ie. The elves from EarthDawn grow thorns in their skin. They do this because by giving themselves constant pain, they avoid being harassed by the Horrors, who like to pester anyone who is happy. So if you ever see an elf with thorns growing from his skin, you'll know he is from EarthDawn. Any suggestions for changes of our elves that will make them more unique? Or was this a bad idea? They could wear little elven name tags...:) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:10:08 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! At 20:20 16-02-98 -0500, you wrote: >*********************** Quasi-Canon Material Survey ******************** The Darine >3. Don't know about them >The Ungolwaith >3. Don't know about them >Kargoyles (did I get this right Marco?) >2. Do not use >Lhomarrians and Selhomarr >3. Don't know about them >Kaarjala >3. Don't know about it >MOrient (I know it's quiet right now, but there was a lot of stuff on the list about it) >2. Do not use >TIMELINES/HISTORICAL EVENTS - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER THE FOLLOWING EVENTS >OR TIMELINES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN YOUR CAMPAIGN >The Carnifex Tyranny >3. Don't know enough about it >The Carnifex of Y'hog >3. Don't know enough about it >Undersea Timeline >4. Modified it to fit my world >Varellyan Timeline >3. Don't know enough about it >Hyborian Timeline >3. Don't know enough about it >PERSONAL PREFERENCES - PLEASE INDICATE YOUR CHOICE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS >Races/Cultures >1. More new races/cultures >2. No more new races/cultures >3. Unsure >"Lost History" (by this I mean details on dead cultures and such) >1. More lost history >General Impressions - how do you feel about quasi-canon material being discussed on the list? >1. Quasi-canon material is fine for discussion >Final comments - please write below any messages and such that you wish to >share with those who work on quasi-canon material: Quasi-canon mateial seems fine to me to discuss, the discussion can be useful even if you don't use the material or has dapted it, like I most likely will do, once I have read through all the material. For now I am only using very little of whats been posted on the net, but that may change. However once people begin discussing their own variations of canon material (and in certain cases quasi-canon) it seems right to add IMCs, as some discussions only seems to take place because people use their own variations, but treat it as canon material when discussing it with others, that can be confusing and should be avoided. Ofcourse not the quasi-canon material and I wouldn't mind if something got posted on the Net as being Quasi-canon, as long as it doesn't go against the canon material in any major way (mainly to avoid further confusions). However how material should be considered "official quasi-canon" I am not sure about, but if it is officially known on this list and more than just the author is posting it on his homepage, I'd say it would be quasi-canon. The Rambling Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:28:17 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pickman's Model (was: Haven of Alphatia) In a message dated 98-02-17 17:38:05 EST, you write: << Which reminds me, I came up with a good "RW" Mystara-ized character while reading DDA2 last night. He's based on the RW fictional character of Richard Sharpe, from Bernard Cornwell's novels (Sharpe's Eagle, in particular). DDA2 mentions how devastating it is for Thyatian's morale to lose one of their standards in battle. I thought the Richard Sharpe character could be an Isle of Dawner who captured one of the Legionnaire's standards during Wrath, much like Sharpe captures a French Eagle. He could be a famous NPC on the Isle of Dawn. I'll try to remember to include him for next year's almanac... >> You mean Sharpes the officer commisioned straight out of the common ranks. I like it. I had always liked the image Bean portrayed in the series Sharpe Rifles. Like I said, I like it. Wasn't it a disgrace in the Roman Empire for a Legion to lose its Eagle? I forget which one, but there was a battle in which the eagle standard was captured and ransomed back. The legion had to later regain its lost honor. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:33:46 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania In a message dated 98-02-18 11:24:01 EST, you write: << How advanced was the culture of the Milenians when they lived on Brun? I just realized the potential for adventure here... Any ideas? >> Well I would assume Bronze Age. From the Halav thing. But since the Traldar fell to peices after Halav's "death" it is reasonable to assume they did not advance any further. Now their Milenian cousins, faired much better. They built upon the bronze age technology and resulted in a society close to that of HW Milenian Empire. The Traldar focused on survival. Where as the Milenians turned to knowledge and empire building. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:03:46 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Galwylin wrote: >Actually, Bruce Heard (I believe) introduced half-elves in one of his Dragon articles for D&D Mystara and I accept just about every word of Bruce's as gospel. ;) And was this before or after the Alfheim Gazetteer explained that half-elves do not exist at all on Mystara, and any human tales of them are due to human ignorance of higher Elven combat or magical abilities. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:06:19 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, DJ Sahlas wrote: >>I would just like it if all quasi-canon (or net-canon) material could bbe identified as such. I prefer for the disctinction to be kept between TSR-published material and stuff from the net. However, there are also those people on this list who insist upon adding ANOTHER level of "canon"--"net-canon"--which means that the ideas of newcomers to the list are automatically inferior. Everything is provisional and speculative, even the stuff that TSR published. One-true-worldism is a hallmark of inferior design philosophy. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:06:15 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania At 11:33 AM 2/18/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-18 11:24:01 EST, you write: ><< How advanced was the culture of the Milenians when they lived on Brun? II just realized the potential for adventure here... >Any ideas? >> >Well I would assume Bronze Age. From the Halav thing. You would be correct. But remember that prior to Halav there were the Hutakkan masters who basically ruled Traladara. They left before the beastmen and warned whats-his-the huntsman about the impending doom. No one listened except for Halav. Halav then crusaded with his friends to build a resistance force. He was seen as a nut by many who wanted to maintain the status quo...until the actual invasion. But since the Traldar >fell to peices after Halav's "death" it is reasonable to assume they did not advance any further. They did not. They remained a very simple fishing/hunting people up until the time of the Thyatian conquest. Now their Milenian cousins, faired much better. They bbuilt upon the bronze age technology and resulted in a society close to that of HW Milenian Empire. Actually the HW Milenian Empire is the outer world empire at its peak. The Traldar focused on survival. Where as the Milenians tturned to knowledge and empire building. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #87 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:01:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #88 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 7ad5692232abf1de7046cd6e24eb3c33 Status: RO mystara-digest Wednesday, February 18 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 088 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! [MYSTARA] - Sharpe's Arquebuses? (was: Pickman's Model) [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Sharpe's Arquebuses and Where Eagles Dare Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Half-Elves [was Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon] Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:10:06 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 Inconu@aol.com wrote: ><< Half-elves are AD&D. Mixing AD&D into Mystara is polluting it. SSo much for "canon". >> >Just so ya know....Mystara was converted to AD&D. So, not mixing it is actually...........non-canon The "conversion" to AD&D is a heresy and can be ignored by all true Mystara cultists. In other words: The matter of "canon" is garbage. There are TSR-published materials, net materials, and other materials. None of them are necessarily any more "true" than any other. The idea of establishing a hierarchy of "canon" is simply too anal-retentive to be workable. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:10:10 -0600 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City Responding to the message of Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:52:29 EST from Magesmiley@aol.com: >My vote goes for Selenica Ditto *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:11:45 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >The True Half Elves have abilities beyond those of other races. I suggest that they are virtually immortal and are very apt with magic. Even more so than the elves. In other words, they're demigods, only for DM use, so writing them up explicitly isn't even necessary. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:13:44 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >Note that I based my previous mail on references from the Elves Of Alfheim Gazetteer, where it is stated that there are legends about HEs, the perfect combination of Elf and Human. It is actually possible for some legends to be false... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:15:54 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! There is no need to bureaucratize the creative process. In fact, doing so will damage it. There is no need to create a set of hierarchies. Why insist upon it? Even the TSR-published stuff is merely a set of suggestions. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:16:10 -0600 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! >>*********************** Quasi-Canon Material Survey ******************** >>Please indicate whether you use the following materials in your campaign: >>CULTURES - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER YOU USE THE FOLLOWING CULTURES IN YOUR >>CAMPAIGN WORLD >>The Darine >>2. Do not use >Mainly i let the gipsies people undetailed and surrounded by an aura of mystery. It is not significant for my campaign to detail their history for >now, and if i really need some historic ref. i can use the Vistani from Ravenloft (which is mainly what Mystaros did when he wrote the Darine: he transplanted Vistani to Mystara) I know nothing about these people but what I've read over the past how ever long this thing has been circulating has sparked my interest... where can I find out more? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:19:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >>I agree with you on the subject of elves - they are a fascinating culture, and Mystara would be so much poorer without them. I myself would be opposed to any plans to have them all disappear from the world in the future, as is happening in the Forgotten Realms (yes Evermeet is on Toril, but it may as well be on another planet) and has already happened in Lord of the Rings. >>Mystara just wouldn't be the same without them. Yup, agree with that, elves be cool. One thing that seems to be a bit strange is the idea that elves are this strangely magical race (they are listed as one of the beings that the NoS would wipe out after so many Rads), yet they can't get spells of higher than 5th level. I know the Alfheimers can, it just seems a bit odd. (Maybe just cos IMC the player with the elf is noticing that the Wizard is getting a *lot* better...) >Another old thread resurrected. >If we're creating a new golden age for elves, how about changing the race a litle to make Mystara elves a bit more unique? Some of the future events might cause such changes. >ie. The elves from EarthDawn grow thorns in their skin. They do this because by giving themselves constant pain, they avoid being harassed by the Horrors, who like to pester anyone who is happy. So if you ever see an elf with thorns growing from his skin, you'll know he is from EarthDawn. Any suggestions for changes of our elves that will make them more unique? Or was this a bad idea? I like it! Perhaps the elves of Alfheim (post WotI) undergo some strange magical ceremony to return the forest which leaves them permanently scarred? I love the blood elves of ED, pity it's been done :) I must admit, I agree with what someone said earlier about the way the AD&D-ising of Mystara made it more generic, at least it seemed like that to me. I like that there are no drow (to me the Shadowelves are *much* more interesting, probably cos I don't like purely "evil" races...hmm, maybe that's why i like the Orcs of Thar too :) ) or half-elves, and Paladins and so forth. I think the OD&D rules helped define the world quite a bit, in ways which changing to AD&D rules take away. Strange that, wouldn't have thought the mechanics would have too much of an effect on the world... ramble, ramble, gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:41:49 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania In a message dated 98-02-18 12:27:12 EST, you write: << t 11:33 AM 2/18/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-18 11:24:01 EST, you write: ><< How advanced was the culture of the Milenians when they lived on Brun? II just realized the potential for adventure here... >Any ideas? >> >Well I would assume Bronze Age. From the Halav thing. You would be correct. But remember that prior to Halav there were the Hutakkan masters who basically ruled Traladara. They left before the beastmen and warned whats-his-the huntsman about the impending doom. No one listened except for Halav. Halav then crusaded with his friends to build a resistance force. He was seen as a nut by many who wanted to maintain the status quo...until the actual invasion. But since the Traldar >fell to peices after Halav's "death" it is reasonable to assume they did not advance any further. They did not. They remained a very simple fishing/hunting people up until the time of the Thyatian conquest.>> As compared to their Milenian counterparts that unified themselves to form the Milenian Empire of Davania. Traldar advancement could therefore be considered stagnant as they basically remained the same without the influence of Thyatis. Now their Milenian cousins, faired much better. They bbuilt upon the bronze age technology and resulted in a society close to that of HW Milenian Empire. Actually the HW Milenian Empire is the outer world empire at its peak. >> My point exactly. The Spell of Preservation froze the ME as it was during its peak. Compare it to the Traldar at any given time period and you'll see the greater of the two. Even the Traldar of the HW pales to the ME. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:33:52 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania << I see no problem with this - I created a new town, Aelios, according to this principle. Remember that the 72 mile hex map in PWA 1011 showed only the largest city-states. Smaller one no doubt exist (and I mentioned some in the timeline I sent you). I'm sure these could be detailled as well. >> Is this material already on your homepage? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:33:51 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! << *********************** Quasi-Canon Material Survey ******************** Please indicate whether you use the following materials in your campaign: CULTURES - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER YOU USE THE FOLLOWING CULTURES IN YOUR CAMPAIGN WORLD The Darine 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about them 4. I modified them to fit my world>> 2 << The Ungolwaith 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about them 4. I modified them to fit my world>> 2 << Kargoyles (did I get this right Marco?) 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about them 4. I modified them to fit my world>> 2 << Lhomarrians and Selhomarr 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about them 4. I modified them to fit my world>> 2 << Kaarjala 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about it 4. I modified it to fit my world>> 2 << MOrient (I know it's quiet right now, but there was a lot of stuff on the list about it) 1. Use 2. Do not use 3. Don't know about it 4. Modified it to fit my world>> 3 << TIMELINES/HISTORICAL EVENTS - PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER THE FOLLOWING EVENTS OR TIMELINES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN YOUR CAMPAIGN>> The Carnifex Tyranny 1. Include in campaign 2. Do not include in campaign 3. Don't know enough about it 4. Modified to fit my world>> 3 << The Carnifex of Y'hog 1. Include in campaign 2. Do not include in campaign 3. Don't know enough about it 4. Modified to fit my world>> 3 << Undersea Timeline 1. Include in my campaign 2. Do not include ini my campaign 3. Don't know enough about it 4. Modified it to fit my world>> 3 << Varellyan Timeline 1. Include in campaign 2. Do not include in campaign 3. Don't know enough about it 4. I modified it to fit my world>> 3 << Hyborian Timeline 1. Include in campaign 2. Do not include in campaign 3. Don't know enough about it 4. I modified it to fit my world>> 3 << PERSONAL PREFERENCES - PLEASE INDICATE YOUR CHOICE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS Races/Cultures 1. More new races/cultures 2. No more new races/cultures 3. Unsure>> 3 << "Lost History" (by this I mean details on dead cultures and such) 1. More lost history 2. Less lost history 3. Unsure>> 3 << General Impressions - how do you feel about quasi-canon material being discussed on the list? 1. Quasi-canon material is fine for discussion 2. The MML should stick only with canon material 3. Unsure - haven't made up my mind yet 4. I really don't care>> 1 << Final comments - please write below any messages and such that you wish to share with those who work on quasi-canon material:>> Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:01:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #88 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 7ad5692232abf1de7046cd6e24eb3c33 Status: RO To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. I copied all I found but I haven't still found the time to look closer to it. Of course, I'm not using it. The idea of developing Mystara through the net is fascinating though. The problem about the term "net-canon" remains... Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:46:51 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Sharpe's Arquebuses? (was: Pickman's Model) On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 Alex295@AOL.COM wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-17 17:38:05 EST, you write: ><< Which reminds me, I came up with a good "RW" Mystara-ized character while rreading DDA2 last night. He's based on the RW fictional character of Richard Sharpe, from Bernard Cornwell's novels (Sharpe's Eagle, in particular). DDA2 mentions how devastating it is for Thyatian's morale to lose one of their standards in battle. I thought the Richard Sharpe character could be an Isle of Dawner who captured one of the Legionnaire's standards during Wrath, much like Sharpe captures a French Eagle. He could be a famous NPC on the Isle of Dawn. I'll try to remember to include him for next year's almanac... >> >You mean Sharpes the officer commisioned straight out of the common ranks. I like it. I had always liked the image Bean portrayed in the series Sharpe Rifles. Like I said, I like it. I agree. Ever since I saw the movies on Masterpiece Theatre. And I've started to get the books. :) >Wasn't it a disgrace in the Roman Empire for a Legion to lose its Eagle? I forget which one, but there was a battle in which the eagle standard was captured and ransomed back. The legion had to later regain its lost honor. Yeah. That's the interesting bit of info I came across in DDA2. It mentions the legion loses it's honor if their standard is stolen, and they have to get it back somehow to regain it. I thought that would be a perfect way to introduce a Sharpe-like character. And to tweak the Thyatian's noses. :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:41:27 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) Hey there. I was wondering if anyone here had taken a look at my Adaptations to the B1 module and whether they liked it, hated it or had any other reaction to it at all. I heard from a grand total of two individuals -- one privately and one on the list. A rather underwhelming response for this list -- usually a few more than that have SOME kind of comment about posts of this nature. I certainly don't expect everyone to necessarily like my ideas or even make comments, but I had hoped that I'd get a *little* feedback on my adaptations. Jenni PS: I'm also still interested in knowing if anyone with a Mystara page would be interested in hosting the original Word Documents for these modifications. I'd like to share my work with others (assuming I get some indication that they are worth sharing) but since I don't maintain a Mystara-based page I don't have any place that would be suitable for this purpose. -JAMM - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:04:33 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) Sorry, I didn't read them. However, I'd be happy to host them if you wish. My page is at http://people.delphi.com/ndaskal/index.html I've never put a Word doc up on a web page, so I am uncertain how a browser would handle one. Even if it's not viewable it could always be downloaded. See my redarrow program at http://people.delphi.com/ndaskal/redarrow.html for an example of allowing a download from a web page. >Hey there. >I was wondering if anyone here had taken a look at my Adaptations to the B1 module and whether they liked it, hated it or had any other reaction to it at all. >I heard from a grand total of two individuals -- one privately and one on the list. A rather underwhelming response for this list -- usually a few more than that have SOME kind of comment about posts of this nature. I certainly don't expect everyone to necessarily like my ideas or even make comments, but I had hoped that I'd get a *little* feedback on my adaptations. >Jenni >PS: I'm also still interested in knowing if anyone with a Mystara page would be interested in hosting the original Word Documents for these modifications. I'd like to share my work with others (assuming I get some indication that they are worth sharing) but since I don't maintain a Mystara-based page I don't have any place that would be suitable for this purpose. -JAMM >-- >Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:49:32 EST From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon >Half-elves are AD&D. Mixing AD&D into Mystara is polluting it. So much for "canon". You're absolutly right. Half-Elves are a horrible idea. They are too powerful and they would definatly unbalance Mystara. If you allow them to exist they'll conquer country after country until the world is theirs. Give me a break. If half-elves were in a D&D book they would be fine. But since the book they came in had a AD&D symbol on it they are a pollutant??? Great reasoning. Open you mind. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:50:49 EST From: Wassellj@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sharpe's Arquebuses and Where Eagles Dare I also express my appreciation for Sharpe. On the issue of the Eagle - There are stories or legends of Legions losing their Eagles and being dishonoured. I remember reading some information about the Ninth Legion which was used in Scotland, and was supposed to have lost its Eagle whilst tackling the Picts and other such tribes. If I remember the story correctly the Legion was dishonoured when the lost the Eagle. So they were 'Decimated' - one in every ten men executed - and the remaining troops scattered amongst other Roman units. There was fiction book written about a son returning to Scotland, travelling undercover to find the Eagle and find out what happened to his Centurion father. And surprisingly the book was called 'Eagle of the Ninth'. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:27:51 EST From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) << I heard from a grand total of two individuals -- one privately and one on the list. A rather underwhelming response for this list -- usually a few more than that have SOME kind of comment about posts of this nature. I certainly don't expect everyone to necessarily like my ideas or even make comments, but I had hoped that I'd get a *little* feedback on my adaptations. Jenni >> Hi Jenni, I, like some others, just dont have this module. This may be the problem. I ordered it a little while ago and I'm expecting the module soon. So once i get it I'll let you know what I think. Your posts look interesting so I have saved them all. I'm just waiting for my mail now. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:50:17 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon >Galwylin, you did it again! I just want to notify you that you've been sending these last posts as attachments, which is bad. Please stop doing that. :) Sorry. Been playing around with a different email program that doesn't let me choose none MIME easily. Hopefully, this is better. >However, I dont like the way Bruce dealt with this aspect of Mystara and I do have a couple of ideas I want to share with you. (Okay Bruce is holy, but this is a postmodern world so we can pretty much say what we want about our gods, right..;) I never got that issue and only heard of it second hand. Since Bruce has done so well with other aspects of Mystara I just assumed that this was well done also. Not that I agree with it but that's personal tastes. >The most common type of Half Elf is the one which exists all over the world. The result of an affair between human and elf results in a child becoming either human or elf depending on its sex, as described in the Alfheim and Darokin Gazatteers. (If you use the AD&D rules I suggest that you use the AD&D half elves for these) Yes. These are the type I use with a characterists from both parents. >However, there are legends of True Half Elves. The Perfect mix between man and elf. Unknown to the elves of Alfheim, there are a few of these beings living on the Savage Coast. They are only born as the result of very unique relationships between individuals of the two races. Relationships where love is so strong it binds the races together. >The True Half Elves have abilities beyond those of other races. I suggest that they are virtually immortal and are very apt with magic. Even more so than the elves. I've got (another) project I'm working on where they is a type of half-elf but it doesn't match with AD&D half-elves beyond parentage. It may be closer to your ideas though I usually limit the creature because of the bonding between human and elf. But the half-elves presented in AD&D are illogical for me. Half-breeds shouldn't recieve across the board abilities of any nature. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:00:28 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Half-Elves [was Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon] Havard, That's a good point of letting players of the character determine what abilities of each to use. However, abilities shouldn't be considered without disabilities also. Instead of determining by rolls, make a table that lists each ability and disability. The players can take up to three each but they must take an equal number of both. And you don't have to go with just written abilities and disabilities. The character may have inherited a condition that makes their life expectany much shorter than humans because of the mixing of blood. Or they may be more prone to certain diseases in cities. Does this help? - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:53:38 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon I very much agree. Though, what is a elf called? One of Human Blood? Most likely, abomination by the purist and half-breed at the least. Alex295@aol.com wrote: >There are no such things as "Half-Elves". I prefer the term "One of Elven Blood" . No creature spawned by the coupling of a human and elf can reasonably fall halfway between the traits of its parentage. This is one of the reasons I disdain the AD&D Half Elf. It is too solid in assigning traits which are in reality as well as reasonability are pretty random. >For this reason, I began a project to develop a more reasonable system to create a PC of mixed parentage. Factors such as what race the mother is play a significant part. Not only in the physically inherited traits but also the psycological aspects. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #88 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:11:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #89 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 11649de53103107d760699c983db110e mystara-digest Thursday, February 19 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 089 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Re: Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:08:08 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Well, I vote against thorns in the skin ;> Personally, one of the biggest differences I see in Mystarian elves is their willingness to compete for the same resources as other races. The pantheon of Immortals has a high percent of elven immortals than any other setting (I know others have them but they're usually a sub-group to the settings main one). So, we need to get into their psyche to find how they percieve the world around them and build from that. Making sure we don't make them painted humans with pointed ears or anything like that. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:34:14 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Gordon McCormick wrote: >On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Yup, agree with that, elves be cool. One thing that seems to be a bit strange is the idea that elves are this strangely magical race (they are listed as one of the beings that the NoS would wipe out after so many Rads), yet they can't get spells of higher than 5th level. I know the Alfheimers can, it just seems a bit odd. (Maybe just cos IMC the player with the elf is noticing that the Wizard is getting a *lot* better...) Racism!! Humans wrote that rule and see what they've done! Seriously, I've never understood it myself. Every time you see elves, it mentions how magical they are right under where it lists the unability to command magics as well as humans. If you want to keep that rule then how about increasing their number of spells for level then. A single elf with the ability to memorize ten fireballs wouldn't be looked down on so much then. Or maybe, an inate abilities shows themselves. I think one reason Alfheimers were allowed to increase magic ability is because of their civilization. They're not bombarded with humans and their thoughts are much 'cleaner' on elven life than others. This makes them more able to accept their heritage much easier than elves in human lands but I'd apply that to any that keep themselves issolated. >I like it! Perhaps the elves of Alfheim (post WotI) undergo some strange magical ceremony to return the forest which leaves them permanently scarred? I love the blood elves of ED, pity it's been done :) No, I don't like this. This would be making elves to be *not as good* as humans which we assume to have emerge from the war mostly unchanged. I think Alfheim should represent the best of the elves. Maybe for another group a scarring but not it's most notable ones. >I must admit, I agree with what someone said earlier about the way the AD&D-ising of Mystara made it more generic, at least it seemed like that to me. I like that there are no drow (to me the Shadowelves are *much* more interesting, probably cos I don't like purely "evil" races...hmm, maybe that's why i like the Orcs of Thar too :) ) or half-elves, and Paladins and so forth. I think the OD&D rules helped define the world quite a bit, in ways which changing to AD&D rules take away. Strange that, wouldn't have thought the mechanics would have too much of an effect on the world... Well, as we've seen in the Forgotten Realms, the rules have been bent to give a setting a distinct flavor. No reason we shouldn't do the same. It's not like anyone else is. How about a little group project that brings Mystara into AD&D but maintains all it's flavor? What changes to AD&D would you suggest to make it more like Mystara should be? - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:58:00 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon >And was this before or after the Alfheim Gazetteer explained that half-elves do not exist at all on Mystara, and any human tales of them are due to human ignorance of higher Elven combat or magical abilities. It was after. I think half-elves were introduced because so many like the 'race'. The legend of a true half-elf are one response to this. >In other words: The matter of "canon" is garbage. There are TSR-published materials, net materials, and other materials. None of them are necessarily any more "true" than any other. The idea of establishing a hierarchy of "canon" is simply too anal-retentive to be workable. I've responded to the canon/non-canon ideas before. My thoughts, no matter how anal-retentive, are that canon does exist somewhere. You're having accepted the idea of Mystara is proof that even you fall to some type of canon. Canon is only useful to those that make use of it. The world we live in changes without my say so everyday. I adapt to it. Mystara should also change but, unlike the real world, we can decide exactly what changes we want to accept if any. Canon is not going to hurt anyone and is only another tool. If people want to say what is canon and what isn't, let them have at it. Keeps them off the street, you know. One way I would like to use is, let's say I have a party off in Darokin. The King of Karameikos dies. That's okay with me since maybe my campaign is in 1053AC. If the party goes to Karameikos, the new king is all worked out for me by current canon. No work for me there. In fact, I can take some of the ideas from canon and take them all in a different direction than the author might not have thought of. Might even use them without having to step foot into Karameikos depending on what I want to exploit. Maybe I take the party to Karameikos and disregard canon and Stefan is still on the throne or change the king. Canon doesn't work against me in any case but it does allow the world around my adventures to change without me having to do all the work. Mystara is a big place and a DM worried about the whole world at the same time as he's running an adventure is probably not giving players the experience he could. >In other words, they're demigods, only for DM use, so writing them up explicitly isn't even necessary. The ones I'm working on are for DM use only. Demigods though... I don't even like the sound of that word. As far as I'm concerned, Mystara has as many demi-gods as it has real gods. Nil. Mine are for DM use because their origins reach back to the first appearence of elves and men on Mystara through the Blackmoor explosion to present day. Their history remains one of their treasured secrets that they share with absolutely no one outside themselves. This makes them unsuitable for players because of the secrecy surrounding them. Though many may have met them and never knew what they were. In fact, half-elf doesn't describe them well enough. In any event, sharing ideas is what this list is about. I wonder what it is you look for here? No canon and no write ups of new races. Hopefully, the magic items and spells have been to your liking. >It is actually possible for some legends to be false... Most people discount alien abductions but the subject seems to fascinate many. True legends usually have basis in fact of some type. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:35:44 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) Sorry, Jenni. I don't even have the B1 module to know what your changes were based from. I know, I'm so deprived. ;) - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:47:28 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon >>>Just so ya know....Mystara was converted to AD&D. So, not mixing it is actually...........non-canon >In other words: The matter of "canon" is garbage. There are TSR-published materials, net materials, and other materials. None of them are necessarily any more "true" than any other. The idea of establishing a hierarchy of "canon" is simply too anal-retentive to be workable. How is the matter of canon garbage? I really don't think some people understand what canon is. If it has the TSR label on it.....well hey it's canon. Canon doesn't mean right and wrong, it's just a development of the campaign and sets basic rules and gives you all the tools to roleplay in it and make your own additions/subtractions. If we didn't all go majorly by canon here.... this list would be pointless... >The "conversion" to AD&D is a heresy and can be ignored by all true Mystara cultists. ...and some people wonder why Mystara isn't being brought back by WOTC - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:59:06 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia << In module M5: Talons of Night, it states that Tokoramses V was Pharoah of Thothia during the Thyatian/Alphatian peace talks c. 2 BC or thereabouts, and that Tokoramses X (IIRC) was the last pharoah of the Tokoramses line before Ramenhotep I took over the reigns of Thothia. Yet the Hollow World and later sources state that Thothia was founded by Prince Ramenhotep I. >> Dynasties can make a pause from reigning... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:59:04 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Re: Immortal Candidates << The involvement of Ka is a nice touch. I agree he should be alive. I don't agree on the "commerce of would-be immortals" between Thanatos and Orcus: it's silly. Also, it is the human who must petition to the immortal, not the contrary. "Hey Orc, look, what can u give me in exchange for Kaladan?" "Grrumpf... Let's sheee.. d'ya like dish Traveshtissh treant? I borrow'd it from Masshauwu a few yearsh back.." ;) >> Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." But there could be some hints... :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:43:19 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon CRlPTONITE@aol.com wrote: >You're absolutly right. Half-Elves are a horrible idea. They are too powerful and they would definatly unbalance Mystara. If you allow them to exist they'll conquer country after country until the world is theirs. Give me a break. If half-elves were in a D&D book they would be fine. But since the book they came in had a AD&D symbol on it they are a pollutant??? Great reasoning. >Open you mind. Am I the only one that finds that sentence ironic? ;> Half-elves (pretending they exist) would not conquer the world. They simply would be too rare and face too many hardships to do so. One of the reasons they haven't gotten any farther in other worlds. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:07:15 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months JamugaKhan@aol.com pontificated: >Xingqiri, Xingqiyi, Xingqier, Xingqisan, Xingqisi, Xingqiwu, Xingqiliu. Are these from the Gazeteer? Because they are Chinese. I'm not sure there whether there are words for days of the week in Mongolian, as Chinese don't have it until it was introduced from the West. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:13:43 EST From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia In a message dated 98-02-17 18:10:11 EST, you write: << In module M5: Talons of Night, it states that Tokoramses V was Pharoah of Thothia during the Thyatian/Alphatian peace talks c. 2 BC or thereabouts, and that Tokoramses X (IIRC) was the last pharoah of the Tokoramses line before Ramenhotep I took over the reigns of Thothia. Yet the Hollow World and later sources state that Thothia was founded by Prince Ramenhotep I. Personally, I prefer having Thothia founded by Tokoramses, and Ramenhotep taking over later on... if only because it means that, with only 23 Ramenhoteps thus far (not counting the current one, who took over in 1002 AC), each one must have ruled, on average, something like 80+ years. Which I personally don't much care for, but, YMMV. On another note, it wasn't until Ramenhotep X that the new brand of Thothian mysticism came in and replaced the worship of Rathanos (mentioned in M5 as a *minor* Immortal of the Magian Fire Worshipper pantheon). So it wasn't until sometime in the ACs (c. 400 or so, by my count) that the Aranea and Arachne Prime contacted Ramenhotep and instilled their "spider" worship. Just a few thoughts. What do the rest of you think? >> The 80 year figure may be somewhat lopsided, with the pre-Arachne Prime Pharoahs having considerably shorter rules than those who came after. If I remember right the later Thothian rulers were vampires, and their lifespans are somewhat better, which would push the date where mysticism was introduced back some more. - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:15:58 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:11:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #89 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 11649de53103107d760699c983db110e On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 CRlPTONITE@aol.com wrote: >me a break. If half-elves were in a D&D book they would be fine. But since the book they came in had a AD&D symbol on it they are a pollutant??? Great reasoning. The reasoning is no more flawed than is the "reasoning" about the "necessity" of designating things as "net canon". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:24:01 -0500 (EST) From: mystaros@serv2.fwi.com (james mishler) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors << 2) the name of the Serpentine empire certainly implies a more snake like race than the carnifex, i believe the original suggestion was Yuan-Ti. Can the original creator of this background please delineate exactly what races were present in the serpentine ranks? m@2>> A fragment from the _Age of Blackmoor_ "... then in 1670 AE [3330 BC] a huge army crossed the deserts at the same time that a tremendous flotilla of Serpentine War Barges landed on the shores of the Golden Empire. The new Serpentine Legions were armed with fantastic weaponry and mounted on incredible animals, the likes of which had not been seen in millions of years! Lizard Man Legionnaires armed with repeating rifles were mounded on Velociraptors, Gatling Guns manned by Yuan-Ti were mounted on Triceratops, and giant Pterodactyls flew through the skies guided by Yuan-Ti, dropping bombs everywhere. Other new combatants included the Sis'thek, Lizard Men who were able to operate in the desert unhindered, and the Chameleon Men, who were able to blend in with their surroundings, being natural spies, ambushers and assassins. Hin resistance crumbled, and the Hin population fled into the hills or through the "Pass of Brasol" to Evergrun, the land of their allies, the Elves. Assistance from the Golden Empire was not forthcoming, as they were defending their own lands against the Serpentine invasion. The Metallic Dragons, though they had the knowledge to develop technologies to combat the Serpentine War Machine, no longer had the time or materials to do so. Apparently, the Serpentines had decided that it was time to reclaim the Southern Continent and conquer their wayward servitors. The chances for the Allies seemed bleak, as the Serpentine technologies and magics were too powerful for them to combat. The Serpentine Empire ran roughshod over the lands of the Hin and the Golden Empire..." >From this excerpt it can be seen that (in my own history of Mystara), the Serpentine Empire had a varied racial population, most of which were reptilian in nature. 1) There were the Serpentines themselves, once the servitors of the long-vanished Carnifex. 2) The Lizard Men. In my history they are not the creations of the Herathians; the Shazak Lizard Men are a special breed of Lizard Men developed by the Aranea. 3) The Yuan-Ti, who were originally a Human race corrupted by the Serpentines ca. 500,000 to 200,000 years BC (several "repentant" clans of Yuan-Ti were "cleansed" of their serpentine nature by Ordana in 10,000 BC and were reformed into the Elven race). 4) The Sis'Thek, who were created by the Serpetines in the century or so before the Great Southern War. 5) The Chameleon Men, who, like the Serpentines, were Humans who had been corrupted by serpentine sorcery. There were several other major races of the Serpentine Empire, including... The Nagas, who by this time had been divided into the free Nagas of Cestia and the servitor Nagas of the Southern Continent. and... The Ophideans, generally regarded as a failure, thought by some to actually be a degenerate form of Serpentine. IMC, many other races owe their origins to the Serpentines, generally from their earlier era of greatness (ca. 1,000,000 BC through 100,000 BC). These races include the Giants (actually, the Proto-Giant race that predated the modern Giantish races was a "Gladiator-Warrior" Servitor Race; most like a Hill Giant in form); the Hin, or Halflings (who are descended from the proto- Humans who escaped the clutches of the Serpentines); and the Enduks (and many other "Spam" creatures). The Troglodytes, Kopru, Aranea and other miscellaneous races either pre-date the emergence of the Serpentine Empire or co-existed with it. For example, the Kopru (and the Illithids, for that matter), are from another world entirely (Vanya, the Fifth Planet, or Damocles, where the Aboleths can also be found). The Aranea evolved on their own; the Troglodytes were another servitor race of the Carnifax. As to the Serpentines themselves, I took them wholesale from Robert E. Howard and the Kull/Conan/Bran/Cormac saga. Considering the bestial nature of their servants, the Serpentines are actually quite human in appearance, having human-shaped bodies covered in fine scales, all-too-human five fingered hands, thin, if definitively humanoid legs and a long, sinuous tail. The most serpent-like feature is their head, which is "...wedge-shaped like a snake's, with lidless, slit-pupil eyes, fanged jaws and flickering forked tongue" (from the Conan sourcebook by Steve Jackson Games, page 14). They range in height from 5 to 8 feet tall, and are invariably thin in build, which belies their powerful physique. They are an inherently magical race, easily superior to the Elves in this matter, though fortunately for other races (from a certain perspective) their spells tend to be more of the charm, illusion and/or alteration types rather than the conjuration or invocation types. Basically, in AD&D terms, the great majority of adult Serpentines are either multiclass Fighter/Specialist Mages or Priest/Specialist Mages, with the specialties most common being Enchanter, Illusionist or Transmuter. Even the rare single classed non-mage has access to lower-level enchantmen/charm, illusion and alteration spells! Serpentines are thought to be extinct in the modern Mystaran era, though there are in fact at least a hundred and perhaps as many as several thousand scattered in hidden enclaves here and there about the Southern Continent. The Yuan-Ti occupy most major Serpentine ruins, generally dominating the Ophidian and Lizard Man clans of their region... Mystaros signature file *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:32:29 -0500 (EST) From: mystaros@serv2.fwi.com (james mishler) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>DA3...:) >DA3 has Sand People, which are a different creature than the Sis'thik (I made the same mistake at first). The Sis'thik are reptiloids, while the Sand People aren't even a carbon based lifeform. Their bodies are different, as well. >The Sis'thik and Sand People, though, IIRC, ride the same types of beasts (Camarillas), so that means that the Camarillas on Davania and in Blackmoor are related species- probably an evolutionary branch of dinosaur. >------------------------ >Cthuludrew, the Great Old One Actually, the Sis'thik ride Xytars, while the Sand People ride the Camarillas... As to the position of the Camarillas and the Sand People in my campaign, check out my Blackmoor history, specifically the first landing on "Mars"... Mystaros signature file *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:32:29 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes At 03:34 PM 2/18/98 -0600, you wrote: >Well, as we've seen in the Forgotten Realms, the rules have been bent to give a setting a distinct flavor. No reason we shouldn't do the same. It's not like anyone else is. How about a little group project that brings Mystara into AD&D but maintains all it's flavor? What changes to AD&D would you suggest to make it >more like Mystara should be? 1. Well, let's start by taking out the half-elf and gnome races. I suppose they could be replaced by lupins and rakasta, but that only works in the appropriate settings. Gnomes could be kept, but consider them really rare. 2. Next, let's adapt the Complete Book of Humanoids to include the various new PC races in the Creature Crucible series. Come on, you know you want to play a mer-paladin. You do! Really! 3. Look at the various skill lists in the Gazetteers; there are quite a few that don't have AD&D proficiency equivalents. Military Tactics leaps to mind, as does Drinking (for the troll in everyone) and the various Knowledge skills. 4. Eliminate the dull weapon proficiency/specialization rules of AD&D and replace them with the spiffy and really entertaining weapon mastery rules. This may have been done in the recent Player's Option stuff, but I never got those; I took a quick peek at them in the store, gagged, and put them back before I was forced to buy them due to vomit on the product. (Eeewww!) 5. New classes (or kits, if you prefer) for the Forester and the Rake. These are common in Thyatis and other parts of the world, so they have to stay. 6. Adapt the Glantrian Schools of Magic (Alchemy, Witchcraft, Runes, etc.) for AD&D, for that extra flavour in your Glantri campaign. 7. Allow high-level PCs the opportunity for Immortality, and not by the rules in the Legends and Lore; those make it impossible to ascend, whereas the WotI rules are playable and lots of fun. 8. Adapt the rules for really big magic items from DotE and Champions of Mystara, so the PC wizards and clerics can zip around in big ships and visit Serraine. 9. Modify the artifact rules from WotI to replace the ones from the Book of Artifacts; that book doesn't do anything for Mystara. 10. Finally, put magic items everywhere. Make the Realms look magic-poor by comparison. It seems that every 4th-level character has a couple of magic items lying around just waiting for PCs to collect. In the Keep on the Borderlands alone there must be at least 50 magic items scattered around the Caves of Chaos. Someone asked in a Dragon magazine (long time ago) if Alphatia had magic factories that pumped these things out regularly. Dragon said no; I have to wonder. Just some ideas from the Great White North. Glen Sprigg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:41:15 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon >>If half-elves were in a D&D book they would be fine. But since the book they came in had a AD&D symbol on it they are a pollutant??? Great >>reasoning. >The reasoning is no more flawed than is the "reasoning" about the "necessity" of designating things as "net canon". Okay well I'm glad you realize that what you said was flawed, but canon is a general term. It's not like something that was just thought up yesterday. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:08:56 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Glen Sprigg wrote: >1. Well, let's start by taking out the half-elf and gnome races. I suppose they could be replaced by lupins and rakasta, but that only works in the appropriate settings. Gnomes could be kept, but consider them really rare. Gnomes were introduced to me (not as a player character) in the first gazatteer, so I rather for them to stay. >2. Next, let's adapt the Complete Book of Humanoids to include the various new PC races in the Creature Crucible series. Come on, you know you want to play a mer-paladin. You do! Really! Not sure if that keeps the flavor of Mystara since most of the races have been adapted to AD&D. The rules for paladins should be changed from the standard AD&D paladin. And now that you mention it, I have been wanting to play a mer-paladin. ;> >3. Look at the various skill lists in the Gazetteers; there are quite a few that don't have AD&D proficiency equivalents. Military Tactics leaps to mind, as does Drinking (for the troll in everyone) and the various Knowledge skills. A definite must. >4. Eliminate the dull weapon proficiency/specialization rules of AD&D and replace them with the spiffy and really entertaining weapon mastery rules. This may have been done in the recent Player's Option stuff, but I never got those; I took a quick peek at them in the store, gagged, and put them back before I was forced to buy them due to vomit on the product. (Eeewww!) I haven't looked that closely to Player's Option but if it is better than standard AD&D, I'd be willing to see adaptions. >5. New classes (or kits, if you prefer) for the Forester and the Rake. These are common in Thyatis and other parts of the world, so they have to stay. Agreed. >6. Adapt the Glantrian Schools of Magic (Alchemy, Witchcraft, Runes, etc.) for AD&D, for that extra flavour in your Glantri campaign. Not too difficult. >7. Allow high-level PCs the opportunity for Immortality, and not by the rules in the Legends and Lore; those make it impossible to ascend, whereas the WotI rules are playable and lots of fun. I have no exposure to Legends and Lore so can't comment. But you're right that immortality needs to be handled as well as D&D did. Possible though difficult. >8. Adapt the rules for really big magic items from DotE and Champions of Mystara, so the PC wizards and clerics can zip around in big ships and visit Serraine. I thought about looking to see how Spelljammer handles ships. Anyone know off-hand the differences between these two methods? >9. Modify the artifact rules from WotI to replace the ones from the Book of Artifacts; that book doesn't do anything for Mystara. Probably would be addressed when bringing Immortals over to AD&D. >10. Finally, put magic items everywhere. Make the Realms look magic-poor by comparison. It seems that every 4th-level character has a couple of magic items lying around just waiting for PCs to collect. In the Keep on the Borderlands alone there must be at least 50 magic items scattered around the Caves of Chaos. Someone asked in a Dragon magazine (long time ago) if Alphatia had magic factories that pumped these things out regularly. Dragon said no; I have to wonder. Don't know about the 50 magic items but I do think that Mystara shouldn't shy away from magic since the planet couldn't exist without it. Making it less magical will definitely kill it in more ways than one. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:11:06 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City from Magesmiley@aol.com: >My vote goes for Selenica I would suggest Threshold. For the first city, it has the adventage of being relatively small, and already has a good skeleton worked out. Also, many campaign starts there (I assume), so a fully fleshed out city will be helpful for the new GMs. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #89 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:06:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #90 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 091edfcfb502c2926d412d30271971cc mystara-digest Thursday, February 19 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 090 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Sharpe's Arquebuses? (was: Pickman's Model) Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon [MYSTARA] - Mystara NEtlogo Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:23:44 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) >I was wondering if anyone here had taken a look at my Adaptations to the B1 module and whether they liked it, hated it or had any other reaction to it at all. I'm surprised at the number of people who haven't DM/played the original "original" D&D module! Not that on it's own it's much good; which is why your adaptions are so welcome. I have to say that, apart from moving the location of Quasqueton, I would probably incorporate your adaptions if I ever re-ran the module. Well-written and worthwhile stuff. Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:36:56 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves >There are no such things as "Half-Elves". I prefer the term "One of Elven Blood" . No creature spawned by the coupling of a human and elf can reasonably fall halfway between the traits of its parentage. Well, out of the millions (billions?) of genes involved, chances are actually pretty high (ie. essentially 100%) that the product of such a coupling will fall *exactly* halfway between human and elf. Remember, 50% of your DNA complement came from your mother and 50% from your father. You are also 50% *identical* to your siblings, and likewise you contribute 50% of your genes to your offspring. (We get some extra genetic material from our mothers in our mitochondria being the only exception). If a half-elf is viable, why exactly is it unreasonable that it fall halfway between the traits of it's parentage? The sons and daughters of any couple each fall exactly halfway between their parents, but which half of all their genes come from their mother and which half from the father determine the variety of traits (which explains differences between siblings). Therefore, the offspring of a human and an elf is 50% elf. If that creature mates with a human the offspring will be 25% elf. And so on through 12.5% and so on until the degree of "elven blood" is more and more diluted. All of these possible combinations between half-, quarter-, and so on -elves and other humans, elves, or partial elves would be where your system comes in handy for determining how much elf and how much human is in a character. But make no mistake - according to genetics as understood in the RW, a half-elf would be the result of one human parent and one elf parent. Jim (the Biologist) Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:19:15 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves DJ Sahlas wrote: >If a half-elf is viable, why exactly is it unreasonable that it fall halfway between the traits of it's parentage? The sons and daughters of any couple each fall exactly halfway between their parents, but which half of all their genes come from their mother and which half from the father determine the variety of traits (which explains differences between siblings). I think the fact that they are 50% of each parent isn't disputed. It's the fact that every half-elf has inherited the same abilities as any other. Genetics doesn't work like that or brothers and sisters would look and be just alike. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:25:05 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes At 17:19 18-02-98 +0000, you wrote: >On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: Yup, agree with that, elves be cool. One thing that seems to be a bit strange is the idea that elves are this strangely magical race (they are listed as one of the beings that the NoS would wipe out after so many Rads), yet they can't get spells of higher than 5th level. I know the Alfheimers can, it just seems a bit odd. (Maybe just cos IMC the player with the elf is noticing that the Wizard is getting a *lot* better...) IMC any elf living among humans are unable to reach a higher level of spellcasting (can't progress beyon 10th lv), they are too different in their wielding of magic and must be taught be either faeries (IMC) or elves possessing elven magic (as the Alfheimers or the Shadowelves, but also the Wendarians and in Glantris Great School of Magic there are certain courses for elves), so elves in certain parts of the world must travel far to learn more powerful magic. >>Another old thread resurrected. >>If we're creating a new golden age for elves, how about changing the race a litle to make Mystara elves a bit more unique? Some of the future events might cause such changes. >>ie. The elves from EarthDawn grow thorns in their skin. They do this because by giving themselves constant pain, they avoid being harassed by the Horrors, who like to pester anyone who is happy. So if you ever see an elf with thorns growing from his skin, you'll know he is from EarthDawn. Any suggestions for changes of our elves that will make them more unique? Or was this a bad idea? >I like it! Perhaps the elves of Alfheim (post WotI) undergo some strange magical ceremony to return the forest which leaves them permanently scarred? I love the blood elves of ED, pity it's been done :) Me too! (oh darned a "Me too!" post) But I haven't really thought any thing special yet, perhaps a limited empathy among elves or a further development of their infravision (which I am pretty tired of, it seems like most people, except the most generic humans, possess that ability, especially in AD&D) or atune them more to their enviroment, give them an ability to draw minor magic from their surroundings (city elves draw from buildings and forest elves from their forests etc.) much like the minor magical abilities of the HW Nithians or the magic a first level trader from Darokin possess. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:52:26 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes At 22:32 18-02-98 -0500, you wrote: >At 03:34 PM 2/18/98 -0600, you wrote: >>Well, as we've seen in the Forgotten Realms, the rules have been bent to give a >>setting a distinct flavor. No reason we shouldn't do the same. It's not like >>anyone else is. How about a little group project that brings Mystara into AD&D >>but maintains all it's flavor? What changes to AD&D would you suggest to mmake it >>more like Mystara should be? >1. Well, let's start by taking out the half-elf and gnome races. I suppose they could be replaced by lupins and rakasta, but that only works in the appropriate settings. Gnomes could be kept, but consider them really rare. I'd like to keep the gnomes, but there will only be few of them, as they are mentioned in GAZ 1 and PC2. >2. Next, let's adapt the Complete Book of Humanoids to include the various new PC races in the Creature Crucible series. Come on, you know you want to play a mer-paladin. You do! Really! Good idea and it shouldn't be too difficult. A mer-paladin, how interesting, I was thinking of a Nixie ranger. >3. Look at the various skill lists in the Gazetteers; there are quite a few that don't have AD&D proficiency equivalents. Military Tactics leaps to mind, as does Drinking (for the troll in everyone) and the various Knowledge skills. I have always preferred the D&D skills, but perhaps they could be adapted with the Skills & Powers system, I like the idea of starting out with lower skills that then can be developed through play instead of roughly basing them on the ability score. >4. Eliminate the dull weapon proficiency/specialization rules of AD&D and replace them with the spiffy and really entertaining weapon mastery rules. This may have been done in the recent Player's Option stuff, but I never got those; I took a quick peek at them in the store, gagged, and put them back before I was forced to buy them due to vomit on the product. (Eeewww!) Always liked the mastery system, it had the advantage of keeping fights quick and avoided an endless series of hit rolls. >5. New classes (or kits, if you prefer) for the Forester and the Rake. These are common in Thyatis and other parts of the world, so they have to stay. And perhaps some more to deal with the specialized people around the world, such as a Fire mage kit and an Ostland sailor kit. >6. Adapt the Glantrian Schools of Magic (Alchemy, Witchcraft, Runes, etc.) for AD&D, for that extra flavour in your Glantri campaign. Already been done in G:KoM, but I haven't read those rules and don't forget the rune magic of the Northern Reaches. >7. Allow high-level PCs the opportunity for Immortality, and not by the rules in the Legends and Lore; those make it impossible to ascend, whereas the WotI rules are playable and lots of fun. Okay to me, as I don't get up there often, so it won't trouble me. >8. Adapt the rules for really big magic items from DotE and Champions of Mystara, so the PC wizards and clerics can zip around in big ships and visit Serraine. or perhaps use the Spelljammer rules, I like Spelljammer. >9. Modify the artifact rules from WotI to replace the ones from the Book of Artifacts; that book doesn't do anything for Mystara. Thats true, I even don't like those artifacts, but would rather stay with the D&D. >10. Finally, put magic items everywhere. Make the Realms look magic-poor by comparison. It seems that every 4th-level character has a couple of magic items lying around just waiting for PCs to collect. In the Keep on the Borderlands alone there must be at least 50 magic items scattered around the Caves of Chaos. Someone asked in a Dragon magazine (long time ago) if Alphatia had magic factories that pumped these things out regularly. Dragon said no; I have to wonder. I don't use that much magic in my Mystara campaign. In one campaign the magic amount is so low that my 4th level party keeps refering to THEIR magic sword (and only magic item), but then again at other times a lot of magic is fun. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 07:57:40 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon In a message dated 98-02-18 16:17:12 EST, you write: << I very much agree. Though, what is a elf called? One of Human Blood? Most likely, abomination by the purist and half-breed at the least. >> Originally I had placed an elven description of a HE. But I removed it. The reason, it opened too many doors for other phrases to describe a person of mixed parentage. An elf may call a HE "Blessed" because he/she does possess certain elven attributes that offer a greater civility than a ruddy human. A "Mongrel" for his mixed blood. A "Disgrace" to his elven parent. BTW IMC my PC/NPC Allstrick is a HE. His nickname is the Mongrel for an obvious reason. He took hold of the nickname and adopted it to his own liking. His "Symbol" is a wild dog's head (looks more like a wolf). I got the symbol off of a Robert Plant album. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:05:09 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon In a message dated 98-02-18 17:35:28 EST, you write: << > You're absolutly right. Half-Elves are a horrible idea. They are too ppowerful and they would definatly unbalance Mystara. If you allow them to exist they'll conquer country after country until the world is theirs. Give >me a break. If half-elves were in a D&D book they would be fine. But since >the book they came in had a AD&D symbol on it they are a pollutant??? Great >reasoning. >Open you mind. < Half-elves (pretending they exist) would not conquer the world. They simply would be too rare and face too many hardships to do so. One of the reasons they haven't gotten any farther in other worlds. >> No I spotted it too and it bothered me. But alas, it is his opinion and who am I to attempt to sway him. I know I said I'd post my Half Elf stuff today but alas time disfavors it. When it is presented you'll see just how rare they are. BTW I've tossed out the roll charts and stuuf and presented the material as a two front discussion. The first will be an in character description of the HE. Each segment will be retold in DM terms. Anyone familiar with Ravenlaft's VR Guides will see what I'm driving at. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:10:20 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes At 10:08 PM 2/18/98 -0600, you wrote: >Glen Sprigg wrote: >>1. Well, let's start by taking out the half-elf and gnome races. I suppose they could be replaced by lupins and rakasta, but that only works in the appropriate settings. Gnomes could be kept, but consider them really rare. >Gnomes were introduced to me (not as a player character) in the first gazatteer, so >I rather for them to stay. There was a whole clan of them described in the original Expert set. They are definately Mystaran. I like to keep them npc though to help set them off from the dwarves. >>8. Adapt the rules for really big magic items from DotE and Champions of Mystara, so the PC wizards and clerics can zip around in big ships and visit >>Serraine. >I thought about looking to see how Spelljammer handles ships. Anyone know off-hand >the differences between these two methods? In general Spelljammer is a fantastic space environment and Mystara is a "real" space environment. In other words Mystaran space is cold, airless, and dangerous. Therefore the ships have to be different. The way I see it...a mage on a Mystaran ship is more essential than one on a Spelljammer. I mean, yeah, the mage provides power for the Spelljammer, but the Mystaran mage provides life giving air and maybe even food. He is a must. >>10. Finally, put magic items everywhere. Make the Realms look magic-poor by Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:06:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #90 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 091edfcfb502c2926d412d30271971cc >>comparison. It seems that every 4th-level character has a couple of magic items lying around just waiting for PCs to collect. In the Keep on the Borderlands alone there must be at least 50 magic items scattered around the >>Caves of Chaos. Someone asked in a Dragon magazine (long time ago) if Alphatia had magic factories that pumped these things out regularly. Dragon >>said no; I have to wonder. >Don't know about the 50 magic items but I do think that Mystara shouldn't shy away >from magic since the planet couldn't exist without it. Making it less magical will >definitely kill it in more ways than one. Every AD&D setting has a "magical golden age" in which long dead wizards crafted incredible magic items the exact methods for which are long lost. This explains both the plethora of magic and the inability of pcs to generate them themselves. Mystara on the other hand has viable methods for creating magic items and, at least before the sinking of Alphatia, is in a "magical golden age". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:28:36 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves In a message dated 98-02-19 01:37:08 EST, you write: << DJ Sahlas wrote: >If a half-elf is viable, why exactly is it unreasonable that it fall halfway between the traits of it's parentage? The sons and daughters of any >couple each fall exactly halfway between their parents, but which half of all their genes come from their mother and which half from the father determine the variety of traits (which explains differences between siblings). I think the fact that they are 50% of each parent isn't disputed. It's the fact that every half-elf has inherited the same abilities as any other. Genetics doesn't work like that or brothers and sisters would look and be just alike. -- This has been a Galwylin© Production>> Thank you Galwylin. AD&D HEs are too darn generic and literal. I wish for a HE to reflect what any child gets from its parents in a more reasonable "genetically random" fashion. Imagine a HE with copper toned skin, blue eyes, six feet tall, a beard and mustache. A bulky body not slim and fragile like his 5 to 5 1/2 ft. elven mother. He also cannot see in the dark like her. One thing he can do is advance well beyond E10. Just imagine her mother's friends when they see him the first time as an adult- "That came out of you?" But a HE is attractive. More so to humans who see him/her as physically attractive. Afterall, the human parent must have been a looker as few elves would bed down with a human and fewer would "do it" with a homely one. To elves, the attraction is less so. Prejudice for the "tainting of the elven bloodlines" would surely make a HE less appealing to an elf. But more on that once I get off my lazy butt and post it all. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:50:05 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sharpe's Arquebuses? (was: Pickman's Model) In a message dated 98-02-18 14:08:06 EST, you write: << > In a message dated 98-02-17 17:38:05 EST, you write: ><< Which reminds me, I came up with a good "RW" Mystara-ized character while >reading DDA2 last night. He's based on the RW fictional character of Richard Sharpe, from Bernard Cornwell's novels (Sharpe's Eagle, in particular). DDA2 mentions how devastating it is for Thyatian's morale to lose one of their standards in battle. I thought the Richard Sharpe character could be an Isle of Dawner who captured one of the Legionnaire's standards during Wrath, much like Sharpe captures a French Eagle. He could be a famous NPC on the Isle of Dawn. I'll try to remember to include him for next year's almanac... >> >You mean Sharpes the officer commisioned straight out of the common ranks. I >like it. I had always liked the image Bean portrayed in the series Sharpe Rifles. Like I said, I like it. I agree. Ever since I saw the movies on Masterpiece Theatre. And I've started to get the books. :) >Wasn't it a disgrace in the Roman Empire for a Legion to lose its Eagle? I forget which one, but there was a battle in which the eagle standard was captured and ransomed back. The legion had to later regain its lost honor. Yeah. That's the interesting bit of info I came across in DDA2. It mentions the legion loses it's honor if their standard is stolen, and they have to get it back somehow to regain it. I thought that would be a perfect way to introduce a Sharpe-like character. And to tweak the Thyatian's noses. :) >> The History Channel showed Sharpe's Rifles a few weeks ago. Knowing their habits, it will be repeated several times in the coming year. I think I have DDA2 and DDA1. IIRC one of the two gave me fits with its depiction of the Thyatian Army as compared with PWA1 and 2. But please no guns in Mystara. Make him an officer of the 4th Banner of a Thyatian Cohort. Or at least a special regiment. But please no guns. :-) "Alright lads, three bolts a minute. That's all I ask. Three bolts" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:59:08 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) In a message dated 98-02-18 14:11:22 EST, you write: << Hey there. I was wondering if anyone here had taken a look at my Adaptations to the B1 module and whether they liked it, hated it or had any other reaction to it at all. I heard from a grand total of two individuals -- one privately and one on the list. A rather underwhelming response for this list -- usually a few more than that have SOME kind of comment about posts of this nature. I certainly don't expect everyone to necessarily like my ideas or even make comments, but I had hoped that I'd get a *little* feedback on my adaptations. Jenni >> Sorry Jenni for I do not have, nor have read B1. I did read through your posts. I did download the DM attachment but haven't read it. However, not being familiar with B1 most of the adaptations were lost to me. Still, the length of the material denotes that you have devoted much time to the matter. And your efforts are appreciated even though I have little idea of what the subject matter centered on. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:22:44 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Galwylin wrote: >>Actually, Bruce Heard (I believe) introduced half-elves in one of his Dragon articles for D&D Mystara and I accept just about every word of Bruce's as gospel. ;) >And was this before or after the Alfheim Gazetteer explained that half-elves do not exist at all on Mystara, and any human tales of them are due to human ignorance of higher Elven combat or magical abilities. It was several years after the Alfheim Gazatteer. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:25:57 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >>The True Half Elves have abilities beyond those of other races. I suggest that they are virtually immortal and are very apt with magic. Even more so than the elves. >In other words, they're demigods, only for DM use, so writing them up explicitly isn't even necessary. Probably, but there would probably be those GMs who wanted to but them in some dungeon to give the PCs some extra challenge....:D Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:31:53 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara NEtlogo Could someone convert the Mystara netlogo to a transparent background? The white background doesn't look good when the page is of a different color... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:04:09 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Milenian City/States Davania << How advanced was the culture of the Milenians when they lived on Brun? I just realized the potential for adventure here... >> Not very advanced. Take a look at the HW Traldar. They came from the same as the proto-Milenians... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:04:14 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon << You're absolutly right. Half-Elves are a horrible idea. They are too powerful and they would definatly unbalance Mystara. If you allow them to exist they'll conquer country after country until the world is theirs. Give me a break. If half-elves were in a D&D book they would be fine. But since the book they came in had a AD&D symbol on it they are a pollutant??? Great reasoning. >> They were in "Elves of Alfheim", but a HE is technically either a human or an elf. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:56:41 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes << Therefore the ships have to be different. The way I see it...a mage on a Mystaran ship is more essential than one on a Spelljammer. I mean, yeah, the mage provides power for the Spelljammer, but the Mystaran mage provides life giving air and maybe even food. He is a must. >> And? Has anybody problems with that? I haven't. Be generous. This is Mystara, the most fantastic worlds of all. I'm playing one-to-one adventurers with a friend. We both have spellcasters (he a cleric, I a magic-user) in the service of the Alphatian government. They get money as described in PWA, and the XPs for it. Ascension is very quick and it explains the great council. :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:56:38 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months << Are these from the Gazeteer? Because they are Chinese. I'm not sure there whether there are words for days of the week in Mongolian, as Chinese don't have it until it was introduced from the West. >> Unfortunately not. They are from the almanacs. I thought for myself that they didn't sound very Mongolish, but I couldn't resist... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:10:52 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) Mystarans: Okay, I'm feeling a little better now. :-) Thanks for stroking my ego, especially the individuals who pointed out they didn't own B1 to compare things too! Actually, on that note, I guess I shouldn't have called them 'Adaptations' so much as 'Additions' or 'Historical Background'. I also should have thought about those without the module and included some basic details! Sorry! Here's a brief description for those who don't have the module: B1: In Search Of The Unknown was designed as a 'beginner' DM and Player module. It consists of a basic dungeon crawl which is supposedly the 'lost' hideout of two well known and now missing Great Adventurers, Zelligar "The Unknown" (A great Mage) and Roghan "the Invincible (? I think)" (A great Fighter). There is virutally no information in the Module on these adventurers, and you are just supposed to accept the fact that they are long gone. The modlue does mention three 'associates' of the two great adventurers: Erig, the Captain of the Guard; Marevak, the Financial Advisor; and Melissa, Rogahn's Mistress. The dungeon descriptions are 'half' finished, and it is left up to the DM to populate a certain proportion of rooms with monsters and treasure picked from two lists at the back of the Module. As a result, it has a propensity to lean towards a "Monty Haul" type module unless used by a more mature DM. Also, many of the areas of the hideout are just meaningless and/or silly, but its still a fun basic module. When I used it, I actually redesigned most of the layout of the hideout so it made 'more sense' in my opinion, but that has little or no bearing on the material I sent to the list. Hope this info helps some of you. :-) Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #90 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:56:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #91 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Thursday, February 19 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 091 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) [MYSTARA] - About X1 (third e-mail) Re: [MYSTARA] - About X1 (third e-mail) Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara NEtlogo Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words [MYSTARA] - Adaptations to B1 Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara NEtlogo Re: [MYSTARA] - Adaptations to B1 Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara NEtlogo [MYSTARA] - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[MYSTARA]_-_Jenni=B4s_Adaptions?= Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves Re: [MYSTARA] - About X1 (third e-mail) [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:40:57 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) At 10:10 AM 2/19/98 -0800, you wrote: >Mystarans: >Okay, I'm feeling a little better now. :-) Thanks for stroking my ego, especially the individuals who pointed out they didn't own B1 to compare things too! I own B1 but I did not really have anything meaningful to say in reply to your adaptations. I see that module being written in a time when huge level layouts and individual room descriptions were seen as more important than background or "how does this module fit into world A?" This is not a criticism of the module. On the contrary I remember those days with a strong sense of nostalgia. My young mind came up with all sorts of settings on which to place B2 The Keep on the Borderlands and B1 In Search of the Unknown. I had a whole land map constructed with a huge human/demi-human land called collectively "The Realm" in the southwest corner and with a vast wild to the north for the characters to explore and fight against. In any case...I think I have rambled about those days enough. I think that the module writers have departed from the "global module" and entered an era of the "linear module". Now modules center more around the storyline and woe to any DM who's players decide to depart from the story! Those older modules were, in a sense, themselves settings. I see "Undermountain" as being a return to the grand old days of the dungeon crawl with interesting rooms. And the players never know what could be in the next room! A friend of mine uses B1 all the time, simply populating it with monsters that are appropriate to the setting at hand. For instance, he once used it on the Rock of Bral (Spelljammer) and populated the place with beholders and liches and all kinds of nasties that kept us on our toes. Got a few of us in deep trouble too as I remember... I think readaptations of old modules are great. And they reenergize an interest in those beloved places. Thanks for your adaptations Jenni. I believe you also mentioned the "Saltmarsh" modules...I would be interested in seeing your adaptation of these! I am planning on placing I2 Tomb of the Lizard King in the southern swamp in Alphatia. I would be happy to share what I come up with if anyone is interested... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Feb 1998 12:23:22 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - About X1 (third e-mail) So...My question was so good that nobody can respond me? Another doubt about the X1... In the first flat of the temple. How the players can reach the zones 35, 36 and 37? I think they can enter to the corridor from the room 34 but the plataform if closed, or the map is not right? The stairs of the zone 35, where they finish? I know in the second flat, but where? The only way to reach the second flat is falling? Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:46:56 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About X1 (third e-mail) If I am recalling correctly you are right. There is a pit that gives access. >Another doubt about the X1... >In the first flat of the temple. How the players can reach the zones 35, 36 and 37? >I think they can enter to the corridor from the room 34 but the plataform if closed, or the map is not right? The stairs of the zone 35, where they finish? I know in the second flat, but where? >The only way to reach the second flat is falling? >Jonathan Leibiusky >edu@giga.com.ar >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:27:00 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes >In general Spelljammer is a fantastic space environment and Mystara is a "real" space environment. In other words Mystaran space is cold, airless, and dangerous. >Therefore the ships have to be different. The way I see it...a mage on a Mystaran ship is more essential than one on a Spelljammer. I mean, yeah, the mage provides power for the Spelljammer, but the Mystaran mage provides life giving air and maybe even food. He is a must. What I meant to ask about was the ships construction. After looking through the SJ material, I see that the only thing that makes a spelljammer magical is the helm. So, the rules for building skyships can't follow those. However, Champions of Mystara gives building guides that uses spells that have or can be adapted to AD&D without too much trouble so I suppose that would be the way to go. >Every AD&D setting has a "magical golden age" in which long dead wizards crafted incredible magic items the exact methods for which are long lost. This explains both the plethora of magic and the inability of pcs to generate them themselves. >Mystara on the other hand has viable methods for creating magic items and, at least before the sinking of Alphatia, is in a "magical golden age". So the 'magical golden age' of Mystara ended with the sinking of Alphatia? Makes sense to me. No other country would be putting effort into producing weapons for fighters, clerics and thieves like the Alphatians. Glantri items would most likely be usable to mages only. Now that Alphatia is in the Hollow World, magic isn't so easy to use like before. This should be a great time to chronicle since the ending of an age is usually filled with many changes to other lands. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:34:49 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara NEtlogo Havard, I had made one with a transparet background but lost it. I'll let the list know when I get it remade. ;) - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:32:38 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves >Thank you Galwylin. AD&D HEs are too darn generic and literal. I wish for a HE to reflect what any child gets from its parents in a more reasonable "genetically random" fashion. Imagine a HE with copper toned skin, blue eyes, six feet tall, a beard and mustache. A bulky body not slim and fragile like his 5 to 5 1/2 ft. elven mother. He also cannot see in the dark like her. One thing he can do is advance well beyond E10. >Just imagine her mother's friends when they see him the first time as an adult- "That came out of you?" >But a HE is attractive. More so to humans who see him/her as physically attractive. Afterall, the human parent must have been a looker as few elves would bed down with a human and fewer would "do it" with a homely one. To elves, the attraction is less so. Prejudice for the "tainting of the elven bloodlines" would surely make a HE less appealing to an elf. But don't forget the mutations that can happen in keeping the population down. Maybe the child inherites the worst from both parents.. frail body and shorter lifespan. If half-elves had been presented in AD&D like that then I would be more happy with them but it sounds like you're on the right track with them and I look forward to seeing your ideas. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:30:14 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 Daly wrote: >>>Figured I might add that both "wight" and "orc" are medieval terms for "man". Interesting huh? >>Yup. What connotations did these words have? Please elaborate if you know more :) >I checked the OED and it seems I was wrong. The name "orc" was applied to a sea monster...but earlier than that it was a term used for an ogre-like monster. Orc-giant, hell-devil...a devouring monster. >Various spellings include orc, ork, orke, orque and orckte. That last was a verb meaning "to make a monster of". >It may have come from the word..."Orcus". This discussion has me rather interested, not least because I come from the ORKney Islands. I'm not sure what the root is there, but I'd sure like to find out. It would be fun if it was related to "orc". It's probably derived from Old Norse, though. Thorf. ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:18:06 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Adaptations to B1 Jenni wrote: <> I think i'll be putting your articles on my webpage in the following month(s). It gives me no problem converting from .txt to .html, so IF everything you sent to the list is all you've got in your Word97 files, do not worry sending them too. If on the other hand you've got other stuff, then send it along to my address, Jenni. I don't have B1, but i feel you've done a good work, especially creating pseudobiblia references so convincing. I liked that stuff! :) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:24:27 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes >>Every AD&D setting has a "magical golden age" in which long dead wizards crafted incredible magic items the exact methods for which are long lost. This explains both the plethora of magic and the inability of pcs to generate them themselves. >>Mystara on the other hand has viable methods for creating magic items and, at least before the sinking of Alphatia, is in a "magical golden age". >So the 'magical golden age' of Mystara ended with the sinking of Alphatia? Makes >sense to me. No other country would be putting effort into producing weapons for >fighters, clerics and thieves like the Alphatians. Glantri items would most likely be usable to mages only. Now that Alphatia is in the Hollow World, magic >isn't so easy to use like before. This should be a great time to chronicle since >the ending of an age is usually filled with many changes to other lands. Well I did not mean it to be such a definite statement. I mean Glantri and Karameikos and Thyatis and Vestland all have magic schools which are undoubtedly rising to fill the gap left by Alphatia. It could be an exciting time of growth. I see the removal of Alphatia as being intended to end this "golden age". But I don't think it is necessarily a must. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:34:03 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words At 07:30 PM 2/18/98 +0000, you wrote: >On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 Daly wrote: >>>>Figured I might add that both "wight" and "orc" are medieval terms for "man". Interesting huh? >>>Yup. What connotations did these words have? Please elaborate if you know more :) >>I checked the OED and it seems I was wrong. The name "orc" was applied to a sea monster...but earlier than that it was a term used for an ogre-like monster. Orc-giant, hell-devil...a devouring monster. >>Various spellings include orc, ork, orke, orque and orckte. That last was a verb meaning "to make a monster of". >>It may have come from the word..."Orcus". >This discussion has me rather interested, not least because I come from the ORKney Islands. I'm not sure what the root is there, but I'd sure like to find out. It would be fun if it was related to "orc". It's probably derived from Old Norse, though. Fraid not. But it is featured in Beowulf! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:41:30 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara NEtlogo A netlogo with a transparent background is available at http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/images/mynetlogo_350_trns.gif. BTW, it looks best with a light background. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:21:50 -0800From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Adaptations to B1 DM At 09:18 PM 2/19/98 +0100, DM wrote: >I think i'll be putting your articles on my webpage in the following month(s). It gives me no problem converting from .txt to .html, so IF everything you sent to the list is all you've got in your Word97 files, do not worry sending them too. If on the other hand you've got other stuff, then send it along to my address, Jenni. What I sent was all there is. The only major difference was in how the "DM's extra information" was highlighted in the Word documents -- instead of double braces the 'correct' or 'explanatory' information was made bold. I also had to reformat the NPC information a little, but none of the information is any different. There was also some formatting done in the form of using different fonts in certain places, and various 'symbols' for decoration. Nothing too critical. >I don't have B1, but i feel you've done a good work, especially creating pseudobiblia references so convincing. I liked that stuff! :) Thanks for the kind words -- I like reading other's development of 'letters' and other 'first source' materials. :-) I was just thinking that you might also consider grabing the details I put in a recent message explaining the basics behind B1 for those who don't have it. You might also want to provide the text from the cover of the Module (you know, the stuff that says something like "A lost hideout, and rumours of treasure beyond your wildest imagination. And you think your band of adventurers have the abilities and knowledge to find it... etc. etc." -- I can provide that once I get home tonight if you think it would be useful. Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:14:23 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes >Well I did not mean it to be such a definite statement. I mean Glantri and Karameikos and Thyatis and Vestland all have magic schools which are undoubtedly rising to fill the gap left by Alphatia. It could be an exciting time of growth. >I see the removal of Alphatia as being intended to end this "golden age". But I don't think it is necessarily a must. No, not a must but Alphatia has been involved in a very long battle with Thyatis and then Glantri. While other countries produce magical weapons, none had the number of mages that Alphatia had to not only produce items for mages but the other peoples of their lands also. Glantri is so single-minded about mages, I doubt you will find many items for fighters and thieves and definitely none at all for clerics. Karameikos, Thyatis and Vestland will produce some but they wouldn't see a need to produce like the Alphatians did. Individual mages will be the producers now, not armies of them. Mages will produce magic for kings and such but they don't have a national reason to do so. No one is currently at war with another. Thyatis has so many problems at the moment they are most likely glad to be able to concentrate on internal problems instead of external. I also think the general population sees mages in a different way now. The struggles of the Immortals weren't as evident as the fighting between Alphatia, Thyatis and Glantri. They saw death and destruction, for all they know, by mages. This might make the different countries rethink their dependence on magic-users. Might even be some that takes Glantri's attitude of clerics and outlaws them or at least limit their freedoms. Add to that the fear that these mages might cause another asteroid to strike the planet. And what about the ones that know about the Immortals' struggles during the time. The discovery of the Radiance by others could signal a underground effort to it's destruction. Glantri may take on a more sinister visage in it's efforts to protect itself and its secret causing further fear of it. I could imagine dark times ahead. The simple farmer hearing of mighty empires sinking into the sea, lands hit by asteroids and being bombarded by flying wizards. A week (then a day every year) where horrible wizards' experiments are loosen on the countryside. Depravations could result with the populace unable to cope with the idea that they are at the whim of others and might be next to die. Add to the mix Immortals seeking to use these chaotic times to manipulate and scheme. Sorry to run on but I subscribe to the idea that butterflies cause hurricanes ;) - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:31:37 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 Magesmiley@AOL.COM wrote: >The 80 year figure may be somewhat lopsided, with the pre-Arachne Prime Pharoahs having considerably shorter rules than those who came after. If I remember right the later Thothian rulers were vampires, and their lifespans are somewhat better, which would push the date where mysticism was introduced back some more. That's a good point... why the heck didn't I think of that? That makes a lot more sense. Thanks for reminding me. :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:16:02 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara NEtlogo At 02:41 PM 2/19/98 -0600, Galwylin wrote: >A netlogo with a transparent background is available at http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/images/mynetlogo_350_trns.gif. >BTW, it looks best with a light background. Perhaps Andrew (the person who created the winning Logo) could make a variation of his image that uses a black background. And when this variation was given a transparent background it would look 'best' with a dark background, providing several useful alternatives for all Mystaran's. (TSR might even be willing to host the version with the alternative background colour) Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:52:52 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: [MYSTARA] - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[MYSTARA]_-_Jenni=B4s_Adaptions?= Hi Jenni, I know what you feel but I think this is kind of depending on some certain mood the "list" is in. I tried it three times and there was little to no reply. I loved your descriptions and I think that one or the other of your NPCs will be some future trouble for my fellow PC. *Did I tell you I love DMGing* No, I was just kidding. They will be fair and dangerous. By the way: Two thumbs up for your background. Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:52:52 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves This is for Galwylin and Alex: >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves >>Thank you Galwylin. AD&D HEs are too darn generic and literal. I wish for a HE to reflect what any child gets from its parents in a more reasonable "genetically random" fashion. Imagine a HE with copper toned skin, blue eyes, six feet tall, a beard and mustache. A bulky body not slim and fragile like his 5 to 5 1/2 ft. elven mother. He also cannot see in the dark like her. One thing he can do is advance well beyond E10. This is no criticism. I´m playing a Mystara setting with houserules from OD&D and AD&D. With regards to AD&D I like the idea of selecting the racial advantages. This is the same with HE. Due to this there can be HEs that don´t have infravision but are very sufficient with bows and the like. It´s the supplement Skills and Powers. By the way every new HE is an individual. Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:14:05 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< Therefore the ships have to be different. The way I see it...a mage on a >Mystaran ship is more essential than one on a Spelljammer. I mean, yeah, the mage provides power for the Spelljammer, but the Mystaran mage provides life giving air and maybe even food. He is a must. >> >And? Has anybody problems with that? I haven't. I agree with the Kahn!!! World ends at 11:00. One of the features of my post-apocalyptic Mystara is that life without the magic is pretty darn lousy on that particular world. Thus, even though it has the "demonic taint" and a major goddess opposes it, there will eventually be some common sentiment towards letting it come back (the more conflict, the better, in a world of adventure). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:32:27 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves In general, true hybrids (out-species crosses) are less vigorous than either parent. Pseudo-hybrids (mixture of different populations within the same species) are as vigorous or more vigorous than their parents. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:03:26 -0500 From: Aron Reif Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About X1 (third e-mail) At 12:23 PM 2/19/98 -0300, you wrote: >Another doubt about the X1... >In the first flat of the temple. How the players can reach the zones 35, 36 and 37? >I think they can enter to the corridor from the room 34 but the plataform if closed, or the map is not right? The map is not right. I don't think there should be a wall behind the platform, so access to Room 35 should be from Room 34 near the platform. This would explain why the renegade tribesmen were able to get access to Room 35 when they walled it off. If they couldn't get to Room 35, they would have no reason to block it. >The stairs of the zone 35, where they finish? I know in the second flat, but where? That is for you, the DM, to decide. The tunnel has collapsed after Room 37, so the rest of that tunnel has not been detailed. If you want your players to go that way, you're going to have to make it up yourself (and they're going to have to figure out a way to excavate a collapsed tunnel). >The only way to reach the second flat is falling? Well, yes and no. The only way to reach the second level is to go through the trap door from Room 34 to Room 40. It's up to your players to figure out a way down (and falling might very well be the way they go). Alternatively, if your players decide to excavate the tunnel after Room 37, you could rule that it eventually connects with the other collapsed tunnel in Room 39 (the room with the black pearl), which would get them to the second level. Aron Reif areif@erols.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Feb 1998 21:07:54 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D I was wondering... The D&D game has 36 levels and the AD&D has 20 level. When you start playing D&D, until level 4 your adventure will be in closed places. But after that you'll have adventures in "the world", I mean in the surface. So D&D has 12 level more then AD&D. In D&D, to reach 36th level you'll need to rejuvenate many times. But in AD&D you can get the 20nd level so easy and just getting 50 years old. I know in AD&D there are a lot of things and rules very usefulls, but there are so many rules in general that the DM can't give the game is own style. In my game of D&D the players can do what they want, I mean they have all the habilities (not the infravision). But the possibilities will be different depending the player class and the caracteristics. In this way, I obtain a more complete game. Other thing is the personality. My players can have any personality they want. A fighter player can be a barbarian fighter, a elf can be a wizard-elf (using only his magics and not attacking), etc. In other words, why do you like AD&D? I'm don't trying to judge you, just asking for opinions!!! Thanks Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:54:17 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D Well, I'm not sure it's liking AD&D (I think we've all pointed out proble= ms with it) so much but just a matter of survival for the setting. I know, =66rom the recent discussions I've been in lately concerning rules, has b= een how to bring the best of D&D Mystara to AD&D Mystara. No matter how much we might want it, I don't think D&D will ever return and newcomers will n= ot ever know of anything but AD&D. About AD&D that I like (besides its accessability) is the different kits = it gives for characters. This helps players grasp their character easily.=20 The disadvantage is that it sometimes seems to lock a character into one way of thinking which didn't exist in D&D. I know, in my PBeM game, I ha= ve characters that would be rangers in AD&D at 1st level but in D&D, they're just fighters with woodland abilities. Don't know if they would exist if the ranger class didn't exist in AD&D but they have more freedom than if they were actually AD&D rangers. Their personal ideas of the class are t= he basis for play, not some rule in a book. Personally, I can give more things I don't like about AD&D than what I do= =2E - ------------------------------------------------------------- This has been a Galwylin=A9 Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #91 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, February 20 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 092 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Mystara Pages (was: Mystara Gming) Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - About X1 (third e-mail) Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics [MYSTARA] - Adventure and Adventure ideas. Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months [MYSTARA] - Alfheim towns Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D [MYSTARA] - A question about Monster's HD Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) Re: [MYSTARA] - Alfheim towns [MYSTARA] - Hin and the Shires ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:26:45 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quasi-Canon Survey!!!!!!!!!! Hey there! Thanks for responding to the survey! And thanks to everyone else who has done so, too!! :-) Well, the following sites are good sources of the material I placed in the survey: Darine, Ungolwaith, Kaarjala, Lhomarrians: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 (then scroll around, you'll find material on these topics and more!) Carnifex of Y'hog, Carnifex Tyranny, Hyborian Timeline, Varellyan Timeline: Same as above, but the most recent version of the Y'hog timeline can be found at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 (this is Marco Dalmonte's site, and here you can also find out about Kargoyles and the Underocean Timeline, plus an HTML version of the Selhomarr Gazetteer) At my site (http://www.chat.carleton.ca/~mqualizz/mystara) you can find some of the above info as well (and more to come), and also a downloadable .zip version of the Selhomarr Gazetteer, which contains info on Lhomarrians as well. Currently I'm skimming the old net digests on io.com for old threads containing useful info, so more should be on the way. Hope this helps you out! :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:28:50 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) >I heard from a grand total of two individuals -- one privately and one on the list. A rather underwhelming response for this list -- usually a few more than that have SOME kind of comment about posts of this nature. I certainly don't expect everyone to necessarily like my ideas or even make comments, but I had hoped that I'd get a *little* feedback on my adaptations. Sorry Jenni, I don't have B1 - been looking for it, though. :-( Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:31:51 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Mystara Pages (was: Mystara Gming) >>I think the most extensive pages are Marco "DM" Dalmonte's and Shawn >Stanley's >websites. Also I have found interesting stuff on the pages of Mystaros and >Geoff Gander which I couldn't find elsewhere. Thank you Haavard :-) I wish I had something to add here, but I'd have to say that the Mystaran Webring is the best place to find Mystara-related pages. When I tried internet searches, all I got were AD&D-related sites :-( Thank goodness for the MML and the webring! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:22:28 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:40:57 -0500 Daly writes: >At 10:10 AM 2/19/98 -0800, you wrote: >I think readaptations of old modules are great. And they reenergize an >interest in those beloved places. Thanks for your adaptations Jenni. I >believe you also mentioned the "Saltmarsh" modules...I would be interested >in seeing your adaptation of these! >I am planning on placing I2 Tomb of the Lizard King in the southern swamp >in Alphatia. I would be happy to share what I come up with if anyone is >interested... I am planning on running I2 and U1 in Darokin around the Malphegi (sp?) Swamp. I will modify U1 slightly so that the smugglers are running arms to whats-his-name, that vampiric lizardman, instead of the settlement described in U2. Aharon, triton sage and historian _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:04:53 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) At 06:22 PM 2/19/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:40:57 -0500 Daly writes: >>At 10:10 AM 2/19/98 -0800, you wrote: >>I think readaptations of old modules are great. And they reenergize an >>interest in those beloved places. Thanks for your adaptations Jenni. I >>believe you also mentioned the "Saltmarsh" modules...I would be interested >>in seeing your adaptation of these! >>I am planning on placing I2 Tomb of the Lizard King in the southern swamp >>in Alphatia. I would be happy to share what I come up with if anyone is >>interested... >I am planning on running I2 and U1 in Darokin around the Malphegi (sp?) Swamp. I will modify U1 slightly so that the smugglers are running arms to whats-his-name, that vampiric lizardman, instead of the settlement described in U2. Hey that is a pretty cool idea! I love it when different modules are linked. I've got to get busy posting my own adaptations! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:48:00 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Gordon McCormick wrote: >Yup, agree with that, elves be cool. One thing that seems to be a bit strange is the idea that elves are this strangely magical race (they are listed as one of the beings that the NoS would wipe out after so many Rads), yet they can't get spells of higher than 5th level. I know the Alfheimers can, it just seems a bit odd. (Maybe just cos IMC the player with the elf is noticing that the Wizard is getting a *lot* bett= er...) Which is why I suggested a while ago changing the rule to that elves can progress unlimited as magic users, dwarves as fighters, and halflings as thieves. While humans have level limitation but are the only race that can become multi-classed. It seems to fit classic fantasy a little better. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:48:09 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About X1 (third e-mail) At 12:23 PM 2/19/98 -0300, you wrote: >So...My question was so good that nobody can respond me? Sorry, been kinda busy and haven't had time to look for it. Here's some help, though. >Another doubt about the X1... >In the first flat of the temple. How the players can reach the zones 35, 36 and 37? Go through the face in 32; it goes underneath the staircase in 34, leading to 35. Don't forget to bring tools to dig though the blocked passage, though. >I think they can enter to the corridor from the room 34 but the plataform if closed, or the map is not right? TSR sometimes includes 3-D views of complicated map areas; here they didn't. As above, go through the face; it goes underneath the platform. >The stairs of the zone 35, where they finish? I know in the second flat, but where? The stairs in zone 35 lead to the blocked passage, which has to be dug through. >The only way to reach the second flat is falling? Yes, but it doesn't hurt; the PCs will land in water and take no damage. Hope this helps! Glen Sprigg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:02:37 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months In a message dated 98-02-18 19:22:08 EST, scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu writes: >JamugaKhan@aol.com pontificated: >>Xingqiri, Xingqiyi, Xingqier, Xingqisan, Xingqisi, Xingqiwu, Xingqiliu. >Are these from the Gazeteer? Because they are Chinese. I'm not sure there whether there are words for days of the week in Mongolian, as Chinese don't have it until it was introduced from the West. Very interesting. It seems that one of the PWAs said that the Ethengars use these Chinese names. These names should have been Mongolian, but perhaps the folks at TSR figured we wouldn't know any better if they used Chinese names. So now I guess you can tell them they are busted! ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:01:29 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics Okay, I have a problem with this concept of no clerics in Glantri. Glantri has (or had) at least one Immortal running around, and even a sort-of church; Rad! Remember the Brothers of Rad (or whatever they were called)? In WotI, under Rad's description, it talks about clerics of Rad getting a bonus to Int and Wis, and that they must be Lawful. And where else would he be worshipped outside of Glantri? Has anyone else noticed this oddity? Sure, it makes for interesting 'flavour' to keep clerics out of Glantri, as well as making it tough on adventurers (no undead turning, no quick healing). But I don't buy that there wouldn't be any clerics around at all. This I can accept: Rad is the only Immortal worshipped (legally) in Glantri; sort of the State Religion. That way, clerics of Asterius, Ixion, etc. get kicked out and banned, but at least there are some people capable of healing the sick and injured (and the undead) in Glantri. Any comments? Glen Sprigg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:45:29 EST From: Dleggend@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Adventure and Adventure ideas. Currently I am play with one player and I have no ideas for an adventure. DMer's block. So I was thinking we could share short adventures or ideas for those with DMers block. By the way my player is a mage in Glantri going to the Great school of magic. Let me start by sharing one with you. Last time I DMed I had the player meet Diabolus, the imp in GAZ3. Diabolus ended up causing player's mage more trouble then good. At first Diabolus offered help, the imp found him some scrolls the were "just lying around". The pc had an exam coming up, where he had to research a spell. Diabolus offered him help, after all he knows all the short cuts. While in the lab, the pc was preparing the components to cast the spell, with a little help from Diabolus. After applying a little too much of a component Diabolus casually says "oops". When the pc finished casting the spell he ended up summoning gremlins that run out of the room and ended up causing problems all over the school (chaotic aura). The head mage then called out all the students and had the pc confess to his blunder. The head mage then made him find and get rid each and every gremin by himself. He then asked Diabolus for help, but the imp's time is precious, in other words he had to fork over the gold. On his search I had chairs breaking beneath students and other mishaps. One of the gremlins lead him down a trap door in a storage room. The trap door led into the passages below the school. When the pc was climbing down the ladder I had it collapse causing him to fall and knocking out his wind. I also had him go through the darkness (used in the adventure form the Glantri AD&D box set). The gremlin ended up cornered in a room with skeletons chained to the wall. When the pc walk next to the skeleton they animated and began clawing at him. Just gave him a scare. After getting rid of the gremlins the pc was successful in distroying the kitchen, the dinning hall, along with other stuff. When all was done he lost money (imp payments), he had to clean all the mess caused by the gremlins and he had to suffer the embarrassment. I'm going to use Diabolus as an informant, at a cost, and a trouble maker for the pc. Dleggend@aol.com http://members.aol.com/dleggend/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:49:47 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics Glen Sprigg wrote: >Okay, I have a problem with this concept of no clerics in Glantri. Glantri has (or had) at least one Immortal running around, and even a sort-of church; Rad! Remember the Brothers of Rad (or whatever they were called)? In WotI, under Rad's description, it talks about clerics of Rad getting a bonus to Int and Wis, and that they must be Lawful. And where else would he be worshipped outside of Glantri? >Has anyone else noticed this oddity? Sure, it makes for interesting 'flavour' to keep clerics out of Glantri, as well as making it tough on adventurers (no undead turning, no quick healing). But I don't buy that there wouldn't be any clerics around at all. >This I can accept: Rad is the only Immortal worshipped (legally) in Glantri; sort of the State Religion. That way, clerics of Asterius, Ixion, etc. get kicked out and banned, but at least there are some people capable of healing the sick and injured (and the undead) in Glantri. >Any comments? I believe in WotI it talked about a plague going through Glantri and they being unable to combat it because of having clerics illegal. They relaxed the rules this time but I don't know if they will 'mend' their ways. Rad, being an Immortal, doesn't have to be only worshipped in Glantri. And to take an idea from another setting, Dragonlance, wizards in that setting recieved their magic from gods but they weren't worshipped (the three moon gods). There are clerics in Glantri but they aren't able to worship freely because of the ban. I don't know if themages of Glantri worship Rad but they certaining support him (or did, in case he's dead or gone forever). - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:01:07 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >Very interesting. It seems that one of the PWAs said that the Ethengars use these Chinese names. These names should have been Mongolian, but perhaps the folks at TSR figured we wouldn't know any better if they used Chinese names. So now I guess you can tell them they are busted! ;) Or perhaps the folks at TSR didn't have anyone who knew Mongolian :) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:33:05 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alfheim towns Could someone tell me which towns in Alfheim are owned by which clans? I already guessed that Elleromyr=Erendyl, Mealidor=Mealidil, and Feador=Feadiel, but what about the others? ****************************** ** ** ** Aleksei Andrievski ** ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** ** aka Solmyr, the Archmage ** ** of the Azure Star ** ** ** ****************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:41:44 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D My own opinion (Wizzard) >I was wondering... >... >In D&D, to reach 36th level you'll need to rejuvenate many times. But in AD&D you can get the 20nd level so easy and just getting 50 years old. I know in AD&D there are a lot of things and rules very usefull, but there are so many rules in general that the DM can't give the game is own style. I think it is a type of "do and don´t-thing". I´m playing a mix out of both while depending on my own experience and the ideas of my players. Main interest is a playable, fast (no 2-hour fights like in rolemaster, but some realism) and BALANCED game. E.g. I introduced armour that absorbs part of the HP when hit. I gave this "advantage" only to the PC and famous or "name-NPC", so the monsters stay the same - BUT the AC of the PC is lowered while the AC of the monsters stays the same and it gives me the opportunity to be more challenging and to play the monsters more intelligent (and being a threat, no death-promise). On the other hand we realized, that playing with weapon-spec. from OD&D causes some discontinuity in the game-balance for I would have to "discard" orcs, gobos and the like and would have to bring in some "real" big-hitters to be threatening. Or if I would give it to all my name-NPC they would be real killer-machines and the group of PC could only go against lower-levels (compared to themselves). Also concerning: >In my game of D&D the players can do what they want, I mean they have all the abilities (not the infravision). But the possibilities will be different depending the player class and the caracteristics. In this way, I obtain a more complete game. >Other thing is the personality. My players can have any personality they want. A fighter player can be a barbarian fighter, a elf can be a wizard-elf (using only his magics and not attacking), etc. My players also have the personality they want. E.g. we have a mage that is capable of fighting with a sword (it´s a katana). He payed dearly for this "advantage" over his "brothers" but I liked the idea and I agreed on it (think of Gandalf, he also can but normally he won´t show it). Now that our group, has gained new fighting support the mage-player more often withdraws and only casts his spells. See what I mean. I want to go even farther and say that in my system the PC can move more freely in their "interests". Waiting for responses. Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:33:59 +0100 From: "Daniele Maviglia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - A question about Monster's HD This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3DFB.D16E6300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ---- Da: Daniele Maviglia A: MystaraM-List Data: luned=EC 16 febbraio 1998 14.32 Oggetto: A question about Monster's HD Hallo I'm Daniele Maviglia In your opinion , wath is the maximum ammount of Hit Dices that a Mage = can give to a Monster using the Wish spell ? Can , this Mage do the same on a Gargantuan Monster ? Thanks ! dm@ares.omninet.it - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3DFB.D16E6300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

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Da: Daniele Maviglia <dm@ares.omninet.it>
A: MystaraM-List <mystara-@mpgn.com>
Data: lunedì 16 febbraio 1998 14.32
Oggetto: A question about Monster's HD

 

Hallo I'm Daniele Maviglia

In your opinion , wath is the maximum ammount of Hit Dices that a = Mage can=20 give to a Monster using the Wish spell ?

Can , this Mage do the same on a Gargantuan Monster ?

Thanks !

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3DFB.D16E6300-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:54:39 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes At 10:48 PM 2/19/98 -0500, you wrote: >Gordon McCormick wrote: >>Yup, agree with that, elves be cool. One thing that seems to be a bit strange is the idea that elves are this strangely magical race (they are listed as one of the beings that the NoS would wipe out after so many Rads), yet they can't get spells of higher than 5th level. I know the Alfheimers can, it just seems a bit odd. (Maybe just cos IMC the player with the elf is noticing that the Wizard is getting a *lot* bett= >er...) >Which is why I suggested a while ago changing the rule to that elves can progress unlimited as magic users, dwarves as fighters, and halflings as thieves. I know it was not really the point of your post. But I prefer halflings not being thieves in Mystara. I see the Hin of the Five Shires as being somewhat more capable and independent than halflings of other settings. While they enjoy good food and a good pipe now and then, they are not so given to comfort that they are all pudgy little backwater people. In fact, the placement of their country next to Darokin and Karameikos means to me they can be players in the games of Mystaran politics. I see them as, not so much warlike, as capable of defending themselves without the help of Tolkien's Gandalf or high men. As for being thieves...this is an AD&D interpretation of one character from the Hobbit. It is not even a very accurate interpretation. Therefore I do not see it as even necessary for every halfling to be inclined toward thievery. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:04:20 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics At 11:01 PM 2/19/98 -0500, you wrote: >Okay, I have a problem with this concept of no clerics in Glantri. Glantri has (or had) at least one Immortal running around, and even a sort-of church; Rad! Remember the Brothers of Rad (or whatever they were called)? In WotI, under Rad's description, it talks about clerics of Rad getting a bonus to Int and Wis, and that they must be Lawful. And where else would he be worshipped outside of Glantri? >Has anyone else noticed this oddity? Sure, it makes for interesting 'flavour' to keep clerics out of Glantri, as well as making it tough on adventurers (no undead turning, no quick healing). But I don't buy that there wouldn't be any clerics around at all. >This I can accept: Rad is the only Immortal worshipped (legally) in Glantri; sort of the State Religion. That way, clerics of Asterius, Ixion, etc. get kicked out and banned, but at least there are some people capable of healing the sick and injured (and the undead) in Glantri. You are assuming of course that all clerics must be able to cast spells. Remember that the ban on clerics is really the mages' attempt to regulate those who might challenge their own might. So the "Sheperds of Rad" could be considered backcountry clerics who don't have spells. Their words of wisdom and non-magical healing techniques make them beloved of many common people. The princes probably view them as little more than an insignificant cult. Rad either wants his clerics to not be spellcasters or he wants them to be beleagured and despised or he secretly wants there to be clerics in Glantri. I further see the common mage's view on immortals as being "they are merely very powerful spellcasters". Therefore, the justification goes, it is our duty to keep these false prophets(the spellcasting clerics) out of our country. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:11:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >I know it was not really the point of your post. But I prefer halflings not being thieves in Mystara. I see the Hin of the Five Shires as being somewhat more capable and independent than halflings of other settings. While they enjoy good food and a good pipe now and then, they are not so given to comfort that they are all pudgy little backwater people. >In fact, the placement of their country next to Darokin and Karameikos means to me they can be players in the games of Mystaran politics. I see them as, not so much warlike, as capable of defending themselves without the help of Tolkien's Gandalf or high men. >As for being thieves...this is an AD&D interpretation of one character from the Hobbit. It is not even a very accurate interpretation. Therefore I do not see it as even necessary for every halfling to be inclined toward thievery. I don't really use halflings at all IMC, for the simple reason that the only source I have on them is Gaz8 The Five Shires, which I detest. It really put me off using halflings at all. I would welcome some comments from others on how they view halflings in their games. For myself Gaz8 seemed to present such a *twee* image of the little funsters, hearty and govial but don't you go messing with them or they'll chop your head off quicker than you can say stunty. Over and over it was emphasised about how "You shouldn't view them as children, they kicked the orcs and dwarves out, and they could do the same to you!". That and other things put me off it, so in previous campaigns I've had the Ethengarian plague wipe them out, or have Ludwig von Hendricks enslave them so he can be an even nastier villian with a whole country to provide him with kicks. Elves and dwarves seem to be fairly well covered as varied and interesting races (and different from humans!), so what makes the halflings special? Can someone please make me like them again :) :) gordon, ranting on a wee bit too much :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:21:07 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alfheim towns At 12:33 PM 2/20/98 +0200, you wrote: >Could someone tell me which towns in Alfheim are owned by which clans? I already guessed that Elleromyr=Erendyl, Mealidor=Mealidil, and Feador=Feadiel, but what about the others? Pinitel Long Runner Desnae Chossum Ainsun Grunalf Shieldtree Red Arrow This is, of course, pre-WotI, when the Shadowelves made the Canolbarth look like something out of Lorac's Nightmare. Glen Sprigg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:29:57 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hin and the Shires At 07:54 AM 2/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >In fact, the placement of their country next to Darokin and Karameikos means to me they can be players in the games of Mystaran politics. I see them as, not so much warlike, as capable of defending themselves without the help of Tolkien's Gandalf or high men. Here's a point to note: the Shires are the only halfling nation in any TSR-canon material I've ever seen; another unique point about Mystara. >As for being thieves...this is an AD&D interpretation of one character from the Hobbit. It is not even a very accurate interpretation. Therefore I do not see it as even necessary for every halfling to be inclined toward thievery. Definitely. I think saying all halflings are thieves is like saying all dwarves are greedy miners. It's a stereotype which doesn't need to be continued in the best role-playing setting in existence. In my own campaign world (when I'm not using Mystara), halflings aren't even known as thieves; that's reserved for gnomes. Halflings are honorable, self-assured fighters who are more than capable of defending themselves and their territory. It's not typical, but it certainly makes a nice change. I think Mystara had some influence on that aspect of my campaign. Long live the Shires! Glen Sprigg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #92 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:29:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #93 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Status: U mystara-digest Friday, February 20 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 093 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine List Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months Re: [MYSTARA] - A question about Monster's HD Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin and the Shires Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics [MYSTARA] - Alfheim towns and more Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D [MYSTARA] - Where the Inmortals live? [MYSTARA] - Eternal life and Inmortality Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine List Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Alfheim towns and more Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine List ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:19:42 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine List Someone asked about this a while ago. Herve, can you put this list (just the issue numbers) in your Mystara FAQ? (Original list is by Daniel Boese) A quick list of the Dragon Magazines which mention Mystara: The first column is the issue #, the second which part of the Princess Ark saga (if any) it contains, and the 3rd the subject of whatever's in it. 148 - "Around the World in 36 Levels" 153 1 1964: Nyxmir 11, 1965: Alphamir 15, Sulamir 10, 25, Sudmir 3, 25, 26, Vertmir 1, 4 154 2 1965: Vertmir 7, 17, 18, Tsalmir 8, 11, 18 155 3 1965: Tsalmir 19-Andrumir 11 156 4 1965: Andrumir 12, 24, 26, 28, Cyprimir 1 157 5 1965: Cyprimir 10, 16, 18-21, 24, 25 (Vulture Peninsula) 158 6 1965: Hastmir 4, 6-8, 16, 17, 25 (Vulture Peninsula/ N'djatwa) 160 7 1965: Hastmir 26-Eimir 15 (Myoshima/The Second Moon) 161 8 1965: Eimir 16-18, 22-26, Burymir 1-5, 12, 19, 26, Nyxmir 5, 12, 15, 16, 19, 21-25 (Trench of Ka/White Peninsula, monster: Vulcanian sloth) 162 9 1965: Nyxmir 26, 28, Amphmir 3, 5, 7-12, 16-18, 22 (Oostdok trade houses) 163 10 1965: Amphimir 23-26, 28, 1966: Alphamir 15, 19-25 (monster: night dragon) 164 11 ? (hero: Haldemar of Haaken (mage), hero: Talasar Ecbashur (cleric), monster: sky wyrm) 165 12 2000: Sulamir 26, Sudmir 17, 19, 20, 25, 26 (Isle of Dawn, hero: Myojo Katamura (fighter), hero: Abovombe (fighter), hero: Nabonidus Raman (mage) ) 166 13 2000: Vertmir 11, 13, 15, 16, 28, Tsalmir 1-5 (Kingdom of Emerond) 167 14 2000: Tsalmir 8-12 (Thothian enchantment, heroine: Ashari Sunlil (thief), hero: Tarias of Arogansa (fighter), hero: Leo of Le Nerviens (gnome), hero: Ramissur Zumrulim (mage) ) 168 15 2000: Tsalmir 12, 16, 17, 20-22 (Deck plans) 169 16 2000: Tsalmir 23-26, 28, Andrumir 4, 8, 12, 14-19 (Kingdom of Sind) 170 17 2000: Cyprimir 12, 18. 24-28 (Yavdlom Divinarchy, map errata: Kingdom of Sind) 171 18 2000: Hastmir 1, 3-5, 10, 16-18, 24 (Savage Coast, Slagovich, seed of cinnabar, cinnabryl) (dragons/dragon kingdoms) (review: B11, B12, DDA1, DDA2) 172 19 2000: Hastmir 25-28, Eimir 1 (essence of cinnabar, cinnabryl, Hule) 173 20 2000: Eimir 5 (Hule) 174 21 2000: Eimir 7-10 (monster: errant soul, The Savage Baronies) 175 22 2000: Eimir 12-15, 22 (The Savage Coast, Almarron, Gargona, Guadalante, Saragon) 176 23 2000: Eimir 24, 25, 28, Burymir 1, 3-5, 8 (Claw Peninsula) 177 24 2000: Burymir 14-18, 20 (Confederated Kingdom of Robrenn) (review: Rules Cyclopedia) 178 25 2000: Burymir 23-28 (Kingdom of Eusedria) 179 26 2000: Burymir 28, 2001: Nyxmir 1-3, 6-10 (Kingdom of Renardy) 180 27 2000: Nyxmir 18-20, 22, 23 (Kingdom of Bellayne, Limbo) 181 28 2000: Nyxmir 24-28, Amphimir 1-5 (Kingdom of Bellayne) 182 29 - (miscellany) 183 30 2001: Amphimir 11, 13-15 (Lands of the Great Magus, Magocracy of Herath) 184 31 - (miscellany) 185 32 2001: Amphimir 23-25, Alphamir 4, 8-11, 13, 14 (Squamous Kingdoms, Ah'roog City, Kingdom of Ator, Bayou, Kingdom of Cay, Tu'eth City) 186 33 2001: Alphamir 17-21 (Land of Wallera) 187 34 - (retainer costs/fief-holder income) 188 35 2001: Alphamir 25-28, Sulamir 1 (phanatons/Land of Jibaru) 189 - Known World Grimoire (economics/population/food/terrain) 190 - Known World Grimoire (population growth/deforestation/mining) 191 - Grimoire: armies and warfare 192 - Grimoire: manscorpions of Nimmur 193 - Grimoire: castle design/servents/operation 194 - Grimoire: advice 196 - Grimoire: Dark Jungle pantheon/Orc's Head Peninsula 197 - Grimoire: AD&D conversion, misc 199 - Grimoire: heraldry; combat: gunpowder/ballista/siege weapons 200 - lords of the skies/Aeryl/Eshu/Ee'aar 206 - "Karameikos, Ho!" 207 - The Magic of Karameikos 216 - Bazaar of the Bizarre (Limited collector's editions of the works of Bargle the infamous) 237 - Campaign Classics: Lupins of the Mystara setting *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:09:42 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Years, Days, Months At 11:02 PM 2/19/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-18 19:22:08 EST, scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu writes: >>JamugaKhan@aol.com pontificated: >>>Xingqiri, Xingqiyi, Xingqier, Xingqisan, Xingqisi, Xingqiwu, Xingqiliu. >>Are these from the Gazeteer? Because they are Chinese. I'm not sure there whether there are words for days of the week in Mongolian, as Chinese don't have it until it was introduced from the West. >Very interesting. It seems that one of the PWAs said that the Ethengars use these Chinese names. These names should have been Mongolian, but perhaps the folks at TSR figured we wouldn't know any better if they used Chinese names. So now I guess you can tell them they are busted! ;) I don't think so at all. Not to be a stick in the mud but...we are talking about a fantasy setting. If the Mongolians did not have names for the weeks but the designers figured that they needed names for the weeks then I see no problem incorporating the Chinese...especially since this is Ethengar and neither China nor Mongolia...:) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:16:26 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A question about Monster's HD At 12:33 PM 2/20/98 +0100, you wrote: >---- >Da: <> >A: <> >Data: lunedì 16 febbraio 1998 14.32 Oggetto: A question about Monster's HD Um...huh? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:39:29 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) At 01:11 PM 2/20/98 +0000, you wrote: >On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>I know it was not really the point of your post. But I prefer halflings not being thieves in Mystara. I see the Hin of the Five Shires as being somewhat more capable and independent than halflings of other settings. While they enjoy good food and a good pipe now and then, they are not so given to comfort that they are all pudgy little backwater people. >>In fact, the placement of their country next to Darokin and Karameikos means to me they can be players in the games of Mystaran politics. I see them as, not so much warlike, as capable of defending themselves without the help of Tolkien's Gandalf or high men. >>As for being thieves...this is an AD&D interpretation of one character from the Hobbit. It is not even a very accurate interpretation. Therefore I do not see it as even necessary for every halfling to be inclined toward thievery. >I don't really use halflings at all IMC, for the simple reason that the only source I have on them is Gaz8 The Five Shires, which I detest. It really put me off using halflings at all. I would welcome some comments from others on how they view halflings in their games. Well...I guess I already gave my view...I like the Hin as presented in the Five Shires. >For myself Gaz8 seemed to present such a *twee* image of the little funsters, hearty and govial but don't you go messing with them or they'll chop your head off quicker than you can say stunty. Over and over it was emphasised about how "You shouldn't view them as children, they kicked the orcs and dwarves out, and they could do the same to you!". Yeah, that is what makes them unique from halflings of other campaigns. I had a great player a few years back who had a Hin character...can't remember the name offhand...but she used a shortbow and had a major temper. She pulled off cute/vicious real well. Everytime one of the humans called her a halfling she would yell, in RW mind you, "I am not a stinking halfling! Halfling is a human word used to degrade us! I am a Hin!" To which the human characters would invariably respond, "What? A hen?" That and other things >put me off it, so in previous campaigns I've had the Ethengarian plague wipe them out, or have Ludwig von Hendricks enslave them so he can be an even nastier villian with a whole country to provide him with kicks. Well that is just plain mean. >Elves and dwarves seem to be fairly well covered as varied and interesting races (and different from humans!), so what makes the halflings special? I think it was already covered. They are given to pleasantness but have developed a warrior spirit unseen in most halfling communities. I see this as all that is needed to make them "special" and "different from humans". I mean what do you want? Peacenik halflings who follow the ways of the Gentle Folk? High Tech Scientist halflings who follow the ways of the Blackmoor Elves? Or perhaps a group of halflings who learn from the mages (and gold dragon) living in the country and have become a circle of powerful mages. They keep their practices secret lest they fall under the attention of the sometimes devious Glantrians! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:44:58 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) In a message dated 98-02-19 13:22:53 EST, you write: << Mystarans: Okay, I'm feeling a little better now. :-) Thanks for stroking my ego, especially the individuals who pointed out they didn't own B1 to compare things too! Actually, on that note, I guess I shouldn't have called them 'Adaptations' so much as 'Additions' or 'Historical Background'. I also should have thought about those without the module and included some basic details! Sorry! Here's a brief description for those who don't have the module:>> Thanks I was going to email you privately to ask you for this very info. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:50:16 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves In a message dated 98-02-19 15:23:45 EST, you write: << But don't forget the mutations that can happen in keeping the population down. Maybe the child inherites the worst from both parents.. frail body and shorter lifespan. If half-elves had been presented in AD&D like that then I would be more happy with them but it sounds like you're on the right track with them and I look forward to seeing your ideas. >> I had thought of genetically passed mutations. But, I had focused them (good and bad) on the offspring of a HE. Really haven't done much on the second generation HE. But you'll see that in the Half Elf Report. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:54:39 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin and the Shires >Here's a point to note: the Shires are the only halfling nation in any TSR-canon material I've ever seen; another unique point about Mystara. I was not sure this was true. Thanks for bringing it to my attention! >>As for being thieves...this is an AD&D interpretation of one character from the Hobbit. It is not even a very accurate interpretation. Therefore I do not see it as even necessary for every halfling to be inclined toward thievery. >Definitely. I think saying all halflings are thieves is like saying all dwarves are greedy miners. It's a stereotype which doesn't need to be continued in the best role-playing setting in existence. It is even worse than the "greedy miner" stereotype because it has little basis in Tolkien. The dwarves in Tolkien are given somewhat to greed. They are also given to great love and honor. Hobbits on the other hand are not given over to thievery at all. This was merely one hobbits role in a book called "The Hobbit". The Shires did not tend to be made up of thieving hobbits. It was not even in their overall character as it was for dwarves. AD&D took one character's role in an adventuring party and expanded it to an accepted generalization for the whole darn race! >In my own campaign world (when I'm not using Mystara), halflings aren't even known as thieves; that's reserved for gnomes. Halflings are honorable, self-assured fighters who are more than capable of defending themselves and their territory. It's not typical, but it certainly makes a nice change. Yes! I agree that this makes them unique and wonderful...even though I can't seem to get any current players to take on the Hin role. I had one in a Thyatian slave/arena campaign recently who wanted to play a halfling assassin. I let him but with several reservations. I really hate allowing the stereotype to continue like that... I >think Mystara had some influence on that aspect of my campaign. >Long live the Shires! Here here! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:59:58 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves In a message dated 98-02-19 18:23:12 EST, you write: << This is no criticism. I´m playing a Mystara setting with houserules from OD&D and AD&D. >> A man after my own heart. Mixing the rules to fit the game. << With regards to AD&D I like the idea of selecting the racial advantages. This is the same with HE. Due to this there can be HEs that don´t have infravision but are very sufficient with bows and the like. It´s the supplement Skills and Powers.>> After pulling hair, grinding teeth, and cursing like a sailor, I have not found a reasonable way to allot inheritted traits. As such, I think I'll assign that duty to the DM. Seems the best option. Plus it'll keep the dice rolling hand from getting cramped. <> Exactly as it should be in my humble opinion. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:08:38 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >At 11:01 PM 2/19/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Okay, I have a problem with this concept of no clerics in Glantri. Glantri has (or had) at least one Immortal running around, and even a sort-of church; Rad! Remember the Brothers of Rad (or whatever they were called)? In WotI, under Rad's description, it talks about clerics of Rad getting a bonus to Int and Wis, and that they must be Lawful. And where else would he be worshipped outside of Glantri? >>Has anyone else noticed this oddity? Sure, it makes for interesting 'flavour' to keep clerics out of Glantri, as well as making it tough on>>adventurers (no undead turning, no quick healing). But I don't buy that there wouldn't be any clerics around at all. >>This I can accept: Rad is the only Immortal worshipped (legally) in Glantri; sort of the State Religion. That way, clerics of Asterius, Ixion, etc. get kicked out and banned, but at least there are some people capable of healing the sick and injured (and the undead) in Glantri. >You are assuming of course that all clerics must be able to cast spells. Remember that the ban on clerics is really the mages' attempt to regulate those who might challenge their own might. So the "Sheperds of Rad" could be considered backcountry clerics who don't have spells. Their words of wisdom and non-magical healing techniques make them beloved of many common people. >The princes probably view them as little more than an insignificant cult. >Rad either wants his clerics to not be spellcasters or he wants them to be beleagured and despised or he secretly wants there to be clerics in Glantri. >I further see the common mage's view on immortals as being "they are merely very powerful spellcasters". Therefore, the justification goes, it is our duty to keep these false prophets(the spellcasting clerics) out of our country. I put a no-no on clerics in Glantri, it's part of it's flavour, a dislike of the "holy" and it makes it a far nastier place, where else could the undead and were-creatures have such fun :) Rad doesn't need clerics, but he sure needs followers to survive as an Immortal, so that's why the Shepards are there, to keep the wizards philosophy going without the need for clerics. The wizards philosophy seems to be a very self-reliant one, one that says that you can be the greatest there is, clerics would just put that mindset down with their worship of higher beings. And there's the point I think, Rad doesn't want clerics because they perpetuate the myth that the immortals are all-knowing, all-seeing, wise guys. When of course they are in fact a bunch of bickering, squabbling schoolkids, albiet with the power to level a planet. (Well, OK, not quite, but somewhere in between the two :) ) This is one of the things that WotI is all about, Rad challanges Ixion on the rules of Immortals, the idea of obeying the head of each Sphere. As he says, as mortals petitioning for Immortality they got used to deffering to their elders, Rad rejects this and does his own thing. Which is also what he wants his followers to do, hence no clerics (well, except for the ones trying to undermine the magocracy :) ) Always thought it strange that one of the trials in petitioning an Immortal is to show humilty and reverence in front of the Immortal, and then go off and build a huge statue to how great you are (or something like that), no wonder the Immortals are all a bit strange, they must get confused by their double standards :) :) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Feb 1998 11:12:26 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alfheim towns and more >Could someone tell me which towns in Alfheim are owned by which clans? I already guessed that Elleromyr=Erendyl, Mealidor=Mealidil, and Feador=Feadiel, but what about the others? By the way... Can anybody write a small description for each clan? Thanks Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Feb 1998 11:12:40 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D >My own opinion (Wizzard) >>I was wondering... >>... >>In D&D, to reach 36th level you'll need to rejuvenate many times. But in AD&D you can get the 20nd level so easy and just getting 50 years old. I know in AD&D there are a lot of things and rules very usefull, but there are so many rules in general that the DM can't give the game is own style. >I think it is a type of "do and dont-thing". Im playing a mix out of both while depending on my own experience and the ideas of my players. Main interest is a playable, fast (no 2-hour fights like in rolemaster, but some realism) and BALANCED game. I don't know. I never played Rolemaster >E.g. I introduced armour that absorbs part of the HP when hit. I gave Do you mean to the complete armor in D&D? >this "advantage" only to the PC and famous or "name-NPC", so the monsters stay the same - BUT the AC of the PC is lowered while the AC of the monsters stays the same and it gives me the opportunity to be more challenging and to play the monsters more intelligent (and being a threat, no death-promise). >On the other hand we realized, that playing with weapon-spec. from OD&D causes some discontinuity in the game-balance for I would have to "discard" orcs, gobos and the like and would have to bring in some "real" big-hitters to be threatening. Or if I would give it to all my name-NPC they would be real killer-machines and the group of PC could only go against lower-levels (compared to themselves). I think I don't understand when you wrote weapon-spec. If I'm don't wrong, AD&D has weapons and no weapons skills. In D&D the players can use all the weapons. Using the books (I mean the red, blue, green and black) in the lower levels you can only use some weapons. When you reach the blue book (4th to 14th level) you start to know new weapons. When you reach the green book, it a little different. You have new weapons and new attack and fight forms. You only can learn them with a master. In AD&D you have all the weapons in the first level and all the fight and attacks forms. I mean, the whole game is the same, in the 1st and in the 20nd level!!! >Also concerning: >>In my game of D&D the players can do what they want, I mean they have all the abilities (not the infravision). But the possibilities will be different depending the player class and the caracteristics. In this way, I obtain a more complete game. >>Other thing is the personality. My players can have any personality they want. A fighter player can be a barbarian fighter, a elf can be a wizard-elf (using only his magics and not attacking), etc. >My players also have the personality they want. E.g. we have a mage that is capable of fighting with a sword (its a katana). He payed dearly for this "advantage" over his "brothers" but I liked the idea and I agreed on it (think of Gandalf, he also can but normally he wont show it). Now that our group, has gained new fighting support the mage-player more often withdraws and only casts his spells. See what I mean. I want to go even farther and say that in my system the PC can move more freely in their "interests". I don't give the wizards the possibility of using weapons, except the dagger, in lower levels. But during the game he can become a warrior if he really want, something stupid. In fact in the books (I use the books not the Cyclopedia) the wizard can be a Mystic in high levels. My wizard, had a familly of slayers in Lulan (very close to the Black Eagle) but he escaped from there. He know very well how to use the dagger and proceeding from a familly of slayers he had the knowledge of killing someone, not only with arms and fisically, also with poisons and other things. >Waiting for responses. I'm too. Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Feb 1998 11:12:40 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Where the Inmortals live? I think the question is the Topic. Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Feb 1998 11:12:40 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Eternal life and Inmortality Ok. There are two different things. If I have eternal life, I don't an Inmortal. The Inmortal is a synonym of power, and eternal life is simply "living for ever". So if I'm don't wrong, the Inmortals are Gods. So the word "Inmortal" it's not correct when it used in D&D. Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:13:01 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine List At 12:19 PM 2/20/98 +0100, you wrote: >Someone asked about this a while ago. >Herve, can you put this list (just the issue numbers) in your Mystara FAQ? (Original list is by Daniel Boese) >A quick list of the Dragon Magazines which mention Mystara: The first column is the issue #, the second which part of the Princess Ark saga (if any) it contains, and the 3rd the subject of whatever's in it. I mentioned this once before in a private E-mail to someone, but there are a few other articles floating around that have nothing to do with the Princess Ark. 158 talks about OD&D dragons, although it's not quite Mystara-specific. 170 talks about the life cycle of dragons in OD&D, and 171 discusses the dragon nations of the Known World. GLen Sprigg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:21:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >At 01:11 PM 2/20/98 +0000, you wrote: >>On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>I don't really use halflings at all IMC, for the simple reason that the only source I have on them is Gaz8 The Five Shires, which I detest. It really put me off using halflings at all. I would welcome some comments from others on how they view halflings in their games. >Well...I guess I already gave my view...I like the Hin as presented in the Five Shires. >>For myself Gaz8 seemed to present such a *twee* image of the little funsters, hearty and govial but don't you go messing with them or they'll chop your head off quicker than you can say stunty. Over and over it was emphasised about how "You shouldn't view them as children, they kicked the orcs and dwarves out, and they could do the same to you!". >Yeah, that is what makes them unique from halflings of other campaigns. I had a great player a few years back who had a Hin character...can't remember the name offhand...but she used a shortbow and had a major temper. >She pulled off cute/vicious real well. Everytime one of the humans called her a halfling she would yell, in RW mind you, "I am not a stinking halfling! Halfling is a human word used to degrade us! I am a Hin!" >To which the human characters would invariably respond, "What? A hen?" :) >That and other things >>put me off it, so in previous campaigns I've had the Ethengarian plague wipe them out, or have Ludwig von Hendricks enslave them so he can be an even nastier villian with a whole country to provide him with kicks. >Well that is just plain mean. I know, I know, :) But it did make Ludwig far more of an evil dastard than he already was, as for the plague, I'd just seen Outbreak and the Babylon 5 episode "Confessions and Lamentations" which also features a plague, loads of pathos for all! >>Elves and dwarves seem to be fairly well covered as varied and interesting races (and different from humans!), so what makes the halflings special? >I think it was already covered. They are given to pleasantness but have developed a warrior spirit unseen in most halfling communities. I see this as all that is needed to make them "special" and "different from humans". I mean what do you want? Peacenik halflings who follow the ways of the Gentle Folk? Cool idea, it was the Gentle Folk who were originally in the Five Shires are wasn't it? Wonder if they'd end up like the folks out of Willow... >High Tech Scientist halflings who follow the ways of the Blackmoor Elves? :) Interesting, they may end up a bit like gnomes though...(I likes gnomes;) ) >Or perhaps a group of halflings who learn from the mages (and gold dragon) living in the country and have become a circle of powerful mages. They keep their practices secret lest they fall under the attention of the sometimes devious Glantrians! Actually now that you mention it...hmmm (this list is cool, already I've got several new plot ideas from it :) Nothing like plagiarism :) ) thanks, gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:18:25 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics At 02:08 PM 2/20/98 +0000, you wrote: >Rad doesn't need clerics, but he sure needs followers to survive as an Immortal, so that's why the Shepards are there, to keep the wizards philosophy going without the need for clerics. The wizards philosophy seems to be a very self-reliant one, one that says that you can be the greatest there is, clerics would just put that mindset down with their worship of higher beings. You're missing the point; he HAS clerics! Look at his description in WotI; it's right there in bold print: Clerics. So the idea of no clerics is not accurate at all. >Always thought it strange that one of the trials in petitioning an Immortal is to show humilty and reverence in front of the Immortal, and then go off and build a huge statue to how great you are (or something like that), no wonder the Immortals are all a bit strange, they must get confused by their double standards :) :) That was in the Path of the Epic Hero in the Master's set, but WotI eliminated that requirement. I never understood it, myself; let someone else build the statues. Anyone going for Immortality has better things to do then sculpt themselves. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:23:28 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alfheim towns and more At 11:12 AM 2/20/98 -0300, you wrote: >>Could someone tell me which towns in Alfheim are owned by which clans? I already guessed that Elleromyr=Erendyl, Mealidor=Mealidil, and Feador=Feadiel, but what about the others? >By the way... Can anybody write a small description for each clan? >Thanks Grumble, grumble...you'd think they'd ask the questions in a single post... *Ahem* Clan Chossum: merchants, get along well with outsiders Clan Erendyl: 'royal' clan, King Doriath's people. Also craftsmen Clan Feadil: latecomers from Sylvan Realm, best Treekeepers Clan Grunalf: foresters, trackers, rangers Clan Long Runner: insular elves who don't like outsiders, good wizards Clan Mealidil: conservative librarians (a redundancy? :-) Clan Red Arrow: elven military, defenders of the Canolbarth That's enough for a basic idea of each; you could expand that as you wish. I can't put in much more detail, since it's already in GAZ5 and copyright laws are sticky enough that I don't want to risk a problem. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:28:57 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine List On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >Someone asked about this a while ago. >Herve, can you put this list (just the issue numbers) in your Mystara FAQ? (Original list is by Daniel Boese) >A quick list of the Dragon Magazines which mention Mystara: The first column is the issue #, the second which part of the Princess Ark saga (if any) it contains, and the 3rd the subject of whatever's in it. >148 - "Around the World in 36 Levels" This one sounds interesting, I couldn't find it in the back issues of Dragon on the tsr website, do you have a rough outline of what it was about? http://www.tsrinc.com/periodicals/dragon/backissues/ gordon http://seija.ucd.ie/dnd/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #93 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:56:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #94 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Status: U mystara-digest Friday, February 20 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 094 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Eternal life and Inmortality Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) Re: [MYSTARA] - Alfheim towns and more Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:46:20 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D One reason to like AD&D is that the population of people who can and will play with you is large. More RPGers play AD&D than any other system. It's difficult enough to fall in with a group of players who are compatible with you without reducing the possibilities by playing a lesser-known system. Of course D&D is close enough to AD&D that when I ran my campaign I just explained enough of the differences to my group of essentially AD&Der (half of whom had DMed AD&D) and away we went. A feature of the AD&D system that some people (not me) like is that with the plethora of class/race/kit combos character differentiation is built into the rules. Instead of having three fighters in a party of six, you can have a Warrior, a Ranger, and a Paladin (etc. etc. etc.) and all three are mechanically different. A corollary to this that some people (not me) like is that there are so many ways for munchkins to try to dominate their gaming groups: an elfin cavalier/mage/cleric demi-god with triple weapon specialization and a vorpal staff of wishing wizardry anyone? >I was wondering... >The D&D game has 36 levels and the AD&D has 20 level. When you start playing D&D, until level 4 your adventure will be in closed places. But after that you'll have adventures in "the world", I mean in the surface. >So D&D has 12 level more then AD&D. >In D&D, to reach 36th level you'll need to rejuvenate many times. But in AD&D you can get the 20nd level so easy and just getting 50 years old. I know in AD&D there are a lot of things and rules very usefulls, but there are so many rules in general that the DM can't give the game is own style. >In my game of D&D the players can do what they want, I mean they have all the habilities (not the infravision). But the possibilities will be different depending the player class and the caracteristics. In this way, I obtain a more complete game. >Other thing is the personality. My players can have any personality they want. A fighter player can be a barbarian fighter, a elf can be a wizard-elf (using only his magics and not attacking), etc. >In other words, why do you like AD&D? I'm don't trying to judge you, just asking for opinions!!! >Thanks >Jonathan Leibiusky >edu@giga.com.ar >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:47:23 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Eternal life and Inmortality At 11:12 AM 2/20/98 -0300, you wrote: >Ok. There are two different things. >If I have eternal life, I don't an Inmortal. Do you have eternal life? How did you get it? I may want "in" on this... The Inmortal is a synonym >of power, and eternal life is simply "living for ever". Well...Immortals (uppercase "I") don't age. Therefore they are immortal (lowercase "i"). >So if I'm don't wrong, the Inmortals are Gods. No, they are mortals who have attained a higher state of being. Whatever that means. This is fantasy so it is up to the individual DM just what that means. Gods (lowercase "g") are something different. They predate man and represent the power that springs from a "thing" or a concept. So you have Neptune, god of the sea. And you have Hades, god of the underworld. I think the confusion on the issue stems from myth, real-world religion, and AD&D vs D&D. This is why the "other guys" have started referring to their AD&D gods as "powers". So the word "Inmortal" >it's not correct when it used in D&D. Yes it is. Immortals are immortal. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:57:34 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) I see this >>as all that is needed to make them "special" and "different from humans". I mean what do you want? Peacenik halflings who follow the ways of the Gentle Folk? >Cool idea, it was the Gentle Folk who were originally in the Five Shires are wasn't it? Wonder if they'd end up like the folks out of Willow... The funny thing is that comment started out as sarcastic. I kinda got into the idea as I was writing it though... Yes the Gentle Folk were there originally and were only "passingly" there when the Hin showed up. Likely the race figures into the legends and songs of the Hin but not in a terribly coherent manner. Perhaps there is a small group in the forested hills who keeps tho themselves and practices the ways of the Gentle Folk. >>High Tech Scientist halflings who follow the ways of the Blackmoor Elves? >:) Interesting, they may end up a bit like gnomes though...(I likes gnomes;) ) Except the Hin would be very responsible about what they create. They too remember Blackmoor, though not nearly as freshly as the elves. In any case they have warning songs and whatnot that encourage them to be careful in their creations. The gnomes create because it is what they were born to do. Who cares if anyone ever has a use for their inventions? >>Or perhaps a group of halflings who learn from the mages (and gold dragon) living in the country and have become a circle of powerful mages. They keep their practices secret lest they fall under the attention of the sometimes devious Glantrians! >Actually now that you mention it...hmmm (this list is cool, already I've got several new plot ideas from it :) Nothing like plagiarism :) ) That was the most serious suggestion actually. I kinda liked it myself...:) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:03:28 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alfheim towns and more >Clan Chossum: merchants, get along well with outsiders "Plays well with...?" >Clan Erendyl: 'royal' clan, King Doriath's people. Also craftsmen >Clan Feadil: latecomers from Sylvan Realm, best Treekeepers >Clan Grunalf: foresters, trackers, rangers Ah yes, as I had recently began Rahasia with an all elf group, each coming from different clans, and one was from here. I had the Mealidil character explain to the Grunalf elf that his clan's name has an interesting etymology. It has two roots: Grun meaning 'one of Evergrun' or simply 'of Evergrun' and Alf meaning 'elf'. >Clan Long Runner: insular elves who don't like outsiders, good wizards Clan Mealidil: conservative librarians (a redundancy? :-) Actually your suggestion of redundancy is a stereotype. Librarians tend to be very liberal here in America. >Clan Red Arrow: elven military, defenders of the Canolbarth *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:19:13 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Glen Sprigg wrote: >At 02:08 PM 2/20/98 +0000, you wrote: >>Rad doesn't need clerics, but he sure needs followers to survive as an Immortal, so that's why the Shepards are there, to keep the wizards philosophy going without the need for clerics. The wizards philosophy seems to be a very self-reliant one, one that says that you can be the greatest there is, clerics would just put that mindset down with their worship of higher beings. >You're missing the point; he HAS clerics! Look at his description in WotI; it's right there in bold print: Clerics. So the idea of no clerics is not accurate at all. Yup, always wondered about that. Hmm, well it could still be he doesn't have any clerics in Glantri, but perhaps a few on Pandius to tend his estate or something? Or on some other plane? Or in the Hollow World? Or his (brother is it? Simon?) that's a cleric, is actually a cleric of Rad, and the only one in existence... or not :) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:27:57 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves Well here it is. Note that this is presented entirely in an in-character manner. "Long has the nature and even existance of a Half Elf. In my queries I have decided that there is no such thing as a half elf. Instead there are persons with a combination of the inherited traits of a human and eleven parent. No offspring falls directly halfway in between the two parents." "Elves are not known for their tendencies to produce offspring. At the least, elven children are brought into the world at a rate to replace the set of parents. Elves are known to take lovers. And in some areas are considered to be quite promiscuous. Yet, few preganancies occur in elven females." "It is my opinion that female elves can activate an internal mechanism to allow the reproductive cycle. This mechanism only being enacted if the elf feels her partner is suitable to sire a child. I also assume that there must be a mutual feeling of true affection. Therefore, the chance of offspring coming relies upon the elven female. Therefore, accidental births are rare. A pregnancy must be wanted." "On the other hand, humans are more ready to produce children. The female human is in a continual state to be able to bear children. This cycle is more uncontrolled and less influenced by the woman. Nature itself seems to have control over the matter. Be it a human female can go about the motions any time she wishes." "A human male can reproduce just about anytime. He is not dependant upon any cycle. The chance of an offspring being produced still lays in the cycle of the human female. The tendency of a male to be constanlty fertile is most probably the same in a human male as an elven male." "With these notions in mind, it is easy to see that a pregnancy between an elf and human is difficult to say the least. Subsequently, a child of mixed blood would be most rare. Contact between the two races is limited for the most part. And even in those where contact is more commonplace, there is still a tendency of the elves to look down upon the human populace." "The majority of "half elves" tend to have human mothers. I deduced that a human female is more likely to fall for a handsome elven male. And if elven males are like most human males, they would hardly turn away the welcoming arms of a human wench. That is if the woman is attractive." "Elven mothers are not unheard of. It is possible for a human male of outstanding qualities to catch the fancy of an elf maiden. Usually, these affairs occur in areas such as the Principality of Belcadiz in Glantri where the two peoples interact on a daily basis. However, these incidents can occur anywhere. It is often said that love is blind, so who can really tell." "Another source of elven mothers is a sensitive area. In portions of our world, an elven maiden concubine is a symbol of prestige and power. Most human that have had the pleasure of being around the elves will easily admit that they are a fair and attractive people. " "Therefore, elven lovers are quite in demand. For the most part, these concubines are slaves, either paid for at market or taken by force. For example, in Thyatis City a female elf recently sold for 70,000 Lucin. " "The controlled reproductive mechanism is contradicted by this. But I have heard tales of slaves actually becoming fond of their masters. This is especially so if the slave is well treated and even pampered as a concubine could be. Then there is the age in which an elf is taken as a slave. With little contact with other elves, the racial undertones tend to be diminished. With these aspects in mind, the reproductive cycle could be activated by the elven female." "The offspring of a mixed coupling would naturally display inherited traits from both its human and elven parent. As with humans, the proportions of each parent is subject to a random state. This would vary with each subsequent offspring. Basically, each child would differ from its sibling. This is evident in full blooded humans as well as full blooded elves. Therefore it should not be any different with children produced by mixing these two races." "I have noticed that offspring with elven mother tend to be more elven. This does not center on physical traits but more so on the inherited elven traits such as build, infravision, and spellcasting ability. I assume that this is due to the connection between mother and child. A elven mother carries the child for almost two years, whether it be of an elven or human father. Some say that a child and mother share the same blood during gestation. Perhaps, this is cause for the childs tendency to be more like its mother." "A human mother therefore bears a more human child. She carries the unborn infant for a standard nine months, just as she would a normal child. This briefer gestation period could do much to explain the lessening of certain traits. " "Once the child is born, many actions take palce to influence his or her life. The deciding factor is once again the mother. " "An elven mother will raise its child as an elf. As such, she will pass along elven knowledge. It should be noted that the human father is more likely to remain in the child's life. A disappointing not is that elven mothers of mixed children are usually veiwed with disgust by other elves. " "A human mother would essentially raise the child like a human. Little of the child's elven heritage would be passed down. In many cases, the elven father does not stay around to see his child mature. Most persons of such parentage that I have spoken to point out that their elven father was not present. Most do not even know the identity of their father. This is surely a tragedy." "As stated, I have spoken at length with several persons produced from parents of the human and elven race. Most exhibit traits of each parent race. The disposition and intensity vary from one to another. I once spoke to a person who looked very much like an elf but lacked the ability to see in the dark. While another looked very much like her Alphatian parent with her copper toned skin but could see in the dark up to sixty feet. Another appeared to be in her twenties but was actually some ninety years old. It should be noted that one thing each did have in common was a tendency to have a slim build, ears pointed, and being quite attractive." "Growing up is most difficult for the child. Among elves, they are seen as outcasts that have purloined the elven lineage. Among humans they are often veiwed with suspicion. But I suspect this uneasiness would be displayed upon a full blooded elf as well. Of note is the draw of attention a person of elven heritage exacts from the opposite sex. Obviously, the fair looks of the elven parent have passed down as well as the dashing figure of the human portion which drew the attention of the elf." "As mentioned, lifespans of mixed children varies from their apparent age. Elves live for centuries. Humans for decades. The mixing of traits affords the child some of the benefits of its elven parent. Lifespans usually exceed that of a human. Most of the time, lifespans reach one hundred to one hundred fifty years. Some sources report of "half elves" living lives as long as three hundred years." "A mixed child, whether born of elven or human mother matures at a simular rate as a human until it reaches puberty. Then the aging process slows in pace." "The chance of magical ability is equally present in these people no matter if the mother was elven or human. However, the presense of an elven mother does much to insure some training into the use of magic. Those of human mothers must seek magical training from other sources." "Of note, is the harsh and often tragic life a "half elf" lives. To elves, one is a human and often termed an adbomination. To humans, one is an elf. He or she is essentially a social outcast. Friends are difficult to find. Humans are the main source of friends. And those that can be considered friends often grow old and die well ahead of the the "half elf". As such, it must be a difficult thing to watch your friends age while one remains young." "Also of note is the deviation of a mixed persons ability. Whereas a full blooded elf tends to stop at a certain point in regards to weapons skill and spell advancement, this doe not seem to affect the mixed breed. Those with the ability to cast wizard spells find no hinderences to their spell inventory. " "Also, the person is more open to the various styles of hero types. One I spoke to was a cleric. Another a spellcasting warrior. One even focused all of her attentions towards wizardly spells. And though I cannot divulge his identity, there is a mixed person acting as an assassin for a certain Thieves Guild in Thyatis City." "There is talk from the elves of a true Half Elf. However, few are willing to speak of such a creature. What has been determined is that such a person is aperfect combination of the best traits of both the elven and human races. Most elves dismiss the person as mere myth. Several have hinted at some deep and possibly dark lore about the birth of such a person. Unfortunately, elves are reluctant to discuss the mixed children and the legendary Half Elf. If pressed they will often display hostility. As such, I suspect the Half Elf Legend holds some bearing to them that they wish not to divulge. Perhaps such a being is an omen or harbinger of things to come." "Now you may ask about the children of these persons of mixed heritage. Well, I know of only one that has a child. Unfortunately, the father will not allow me to examine the boy to assess the possible traits he may have. And given the persons, status and reputation and would be ill advised for myself to pursue the matter without the father's blessing." As submitted to the Karameikan School of Magic researched and written by Sergei Terov *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:50:57 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics In a message dated 98-02-20 09:39:24 EST, you write: << >Rad doesn't need clerics, but he sure needs followers to survive as an >Immortal, so that's why the Shepards are there, to keep the wizards philosophy going without the need for clerics. The wizards philosophy seems to be a very self-reliant one, one that says that you can be the greatest there is, clerics would just put that mindset down with their worship of higher beings. You're missing the point; he HAS clerics! Look at his description in WotI; it's right there in bold print: Clerics. So the idea of no clerics is not accurate at all. >> Glen has a point. Not only WotI but according to G:KoM. In it it says that the Temples of Rad are tended by Shepherds. It states that you should never call them priests. You can talk to them or meditate with them so they do have some clerical significance. I don't have the Glantri Gaz so I am uncertain as to what it says. The Glantri an Alfheim Gazs seem the hardest to get. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:55:16 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.0 Mystara FAQ version 5.0 by Hervé Musseau Q: What is Mystara? A: Mystara is an imaginary world created by TSR as a campaign world for roleplaying games using the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. Q: What is a roleplaying game? A: Roleplaying games are games in which people play the role of imaginary fantastic characters like warriors or wizards and try to complete an adventure under the guidance of a game master. Q: I never heard of Mystara, but I know a setting called the Known World which looks pretty the same. What's the difference? A: Mystara got a name as a world only recently; before that, it was often referred to as the Known World, although Mystara is more than just the Known World. Q: So, what's Mystara? The Known World and what else? A: Mystara is basically composed of 2 main parts, the Outer World and the Hollow World, plus 2 moons, and some other exotic settings. Q: A Hollow World? A: Yes. Mystara, unlike our earth, is hollow, an empty sphere. It has an internal sun that lights the interior world, making it inhabitable. It holds old civilizations that are now extinct on the Outer World, placed there by the Immortals with strong magic preventing them from evolving much or dying away. The only entrances to the Hollow World are through underground passages between the two worlds, and through the holes that stand in place of the north and south poles. Q: And the Outer World? A: The Outer World is mostly like our Earth. It comprises: * the Known World (now called Old World), where the most civilized countries are located, * Alphatia (only before AC 1009), * the Savage Coast and Hule, * the southern continent, called Davania, * the eastern continent, called Skothar. Q: Why is Alphatia part of Mystara only up to AC 1009? A: Because Alphatia, which is a large continent east of the Known World, sank into the ocean in AC 1009, at the end of the major event called Wrath of the Immortals. It is now a floating continent located in the Hollow World. Q: What exactly is Wrath of the Immortals? A: Wrath of the Immortals (or WotI) is a great campaign that TSR published to update the Known World. It deals with the Great War that involves the major countries of Mystara and that was caused by the Immortals to obtain control of the Nucleus of the Spheres, a powerful artifact located under Glantri. At the end of the war, Alphatia sinks, Glantri and Thyatis have suffered dramatically from the conflict and three new powers enter the political scene of Mystara: the Heldannic Territories, the Hagiarchy of Hule and the "revamped" Kingdom of Karameikos. Q: On the continental map published in the Master DM's book, there are some empires I've never read anything about in other products and on the list, like the Empire of Dorphin IV or the Empire of the Great Khan. Do they exist? Where can I find information about these? A: The map in the Master set is wrong, wrong, wrong! In the series of articles written by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine, the first in the series (Dragon #153) explains this all. The map was the was released by a very imaginative Thyatian, and wrongly accepted for the truth. There is no Empire of Dorphin IV, no Empire of the Great Khan, etc. Also, as you probably guessed, the size of the Thyatian Empire was largely exagerated on this map... Q: I've already heard from the Known World, and from the Hollow World too, but never as Mystara. What does all this mean? A: This is because Mystara is a very old world, one of the oldest created by TSR, and, as TSR grew, so did Mystara. All of these product lines are revelant to Mystara: * Mystara, of course, * the Known World and most stuff that were made for D&D (as opposed to AD&D) like these old good modules B and X, or the Gazetteers, * the Hollow World, * Red Steel/the Savage Coast, * Blackmoor. Also, some products bearing the label First Quest are related to Mystara. Q: Blackmoor? I know a Blackmoor, but it's part of Greyhawk, isn't it? A: Blackmoor was, like Greyhawk, the campaign world of one of TSR's founder. It was later placed in both Greyhawk and the Known World (as a past kingdom in the later), effectively making two Blackmoors exist. It seems there is no further relation between the two Blackmoors, however, although some people made the assumption. Q: Where is it located? A: Blackmoor was a techno-magical kingdom that blew itself up a few millenia ago. The event shifted the planet's axis and Blackmoor is now the north pole. Sources are contradictory as to where Blackmoor stands; some place it on Brun, some on Skothar. Arguments in favor of Brun are the position of the Inn Between the Worlds and the Nucleus of the Sphere, and the fact that the Known World stands there; this is the solution proposed in some Gazetteers. Arguments in favor of Skothar are its sort of canonical status, and the feeling that all civilizations should not systamatically come from the Known World; this is the solution proposed in the Hollow World box. Note that, if you consider the Hollow World solution to be the truth in your campaign, the map in the box does have a typo : the names of Blackmoor and Thonia have been reversed (Blackmoor was north of the Empire of Thonia according to all other sources). Bruce Heard's opinion on this matter : << Blackmoor -- the travelling legend. If there were archaeologist on Mystara, they would have a devil of time figuring where the darn place was really located. Officially, it's supposed to be up there by the Thonian Marches. Unfortunately, conflicting info has crept into several products, getting in the way of the Thonian theory. The best thing is to assume evidence of Blackmoor's presence elsewhere is the result of later colonizations and outposts. Other communities were also magically displaced (such as a certain ancient tavern in the Broken Lands of the Known World). Definitely a messy development of the World of Mystara! :) >> So officially the answer is Skothar. Q: Ok, and now what's Red Steel? A: Red Steel is a setting that is part of Mystara (west of the Known World), although it was released as a stand-alone setting. Q: I have a player of the Church of Karameikos, and I whant to give him an Immortal, I suppose that it's a church with many Immortals (like the Greek / Latin church) but in Gaz 1 I dind't find any list of Inmortals... A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: Asterius (Eternal of Thought), Leader Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) Ilsundal (Hierarch of Thought) Valerias (Hierarch of Matter) Vanya (Empyreal of Time). Also, although Chardastes is a native Traladaran Immortal, he is venerated through the auspices of the Church of Karameikos, not the Church of Traladara. This is extrapolated from info in B1-9 In Search of Adventure. The Immortals of the Church of Traladara are: Halav Petra Zirchev. Q: You spoke of Immortals, what are they? Are they Gods? A: Mystara has a different pantheon when compared to other D&D settings. Most notably, it has no gods, but beings called Immortals. Immortals are mortals who, through their deeds, have reached a higher status granting them more power than mere mortals. Basically, however, Immortals are not very different from Gods of other settings. Q: Also you mentionned something about D&D not being AD&D. What does that mean? A: Mystara was the world designed to be used with the rules of D&D (often called OD&D to better distinct it from AD&D and from the generic term D&D which could mean both; OD&D stands for Old D&D or Original D&D). It appeared in the old boxed rules: the Expert box, the Companion box and the Master box. Most of the earlier modules designed for D&D were set in this world. Recently, however, Mystara has been converted to AD&D (along with Red Steel), but many people who play in Mystara do it with the old rules (or their reedition, Rules Cyclopedia). Q: When I read stuff about Mystara I keep seeing acronyms I cannot understand like WotI or PWA. What do they mean? A: There is a list of Mystara relevant acronyms at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Q: I heard that the Mystara line was cancelled. Is this true? A: It is unfortunately true. And Red Steel is cancelled too. Some novels pertaining to Mystara may be released as part of the First Quest line, and modules may be part of the Odyssey line. AFAIK, there is no such products in preparation however, though Wizards of the Coast (which bought TSR) has expressed its willingness to publish material for dead worlds, but never namely mentioned Mystara. Keep faith. Joshuan's Almanach was the last product of Mystara (to be precise the novel "The Black Vessel" has been released after, and to be even more precise it deals with the Savage Coast) and the Savages Baronies the last of Red Steel (except for online exclusives). Q: But I saw in TSR's 97 preview that there would be Red Steel modules released as online exclusive. What does this mean? A: TSR has released these modules for free on its site of MPGN at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com and http://www.tsrinc.com. Q: So, if TSR has dropped the line, how can I get new material for Mystara? A: There are many people on the web who love Mystara and have taken upon themselves to keep Mystara alive (and well alive). There is a mailing list dedicated to Mystara where people discuss together about it, exchanging ideas, points of view, and more. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@mpgn.com. In the body, have the single line: subscribe Mystara-L . There are also many pages around the net dedicated to Mystara, sometimes with lots of interesting materials. Some of these pages are organized into a Webring, check http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html for info about the Mystara webring. The pages I am aware of are (list not maintained because of the WebRing): * http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932 Herve's HomePage the homepage of the writer of this FAQ * http://www.io.com/~oryon/mysthome.htm The Mystara Mailing List Home Page * http://moray.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/%7Eknight/mystara/index.html Knight's Mystara Homepage new material * http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 Fabrizio's Mystara Homepage featuring the diary of a Shadow Elf * http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/6011/ Lord Estlor's Mystara Page new material * http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ Shawn's Mystara Site articles collected from the mailing-list * http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/ Marco's ("DM") homepage about Mystara and many articles from the mailing list members * http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/4206/ The Principality of Mysteria * http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/1413 Thorf's Homepage * http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc Haavard's Homepage with some interesting stuff about Halfling Clans and the Church of Karameikos * http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/1437 Mystaros' Homepage full of his articles about the multiverse and the ancient history of Mystara. * http://members.aol.com/b1bard Brant the Bard's Homepage hosts the Mystara NetMags to download * http://www.airnet.net/galwylin Galwylin's Homepage where you will find the legendary Tome of Galwylin * http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill Andrew's ("Cthulhudrew") Homepage * http://www.miniworld.com/adnd/ Dungeon and Dragons Section Toowin's travels and Madame Aleksandra's horiscopes * http://www.angelfire.com/pg7/HL/index.html The High Legion Clan campaign presentation * http://www.geocities.com/Area51/4090/index.html The Druid's Grove druidic information * http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/2843/index.html Castle Kalamonia * http://www.angelfire.com/pages0/redwolf/index.html Mystaran Almanac I, by Red Wolf * http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2426/index.html Thothian Escarpment Encounter table * http://www.angelfire.com/fl/NickusGemeye/index.html Nickus Gemeye's Hut * http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4991/index.html Cantrip the Chaotic's Home Page * http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/1466/Lucin.html Lucin's Goods a store in the Minrothad Guilds * http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1175 Daniel Boese's Homepage * http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs/rollen.html#myst Mystara and Diplomacy (in German) * ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara/ Mystara at MPGN * ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/SavageCoast/ Savage Coast at MPGN * http://www.tsrinc.com TSR's official homepage * http://skaro.lawlib.wm.edu/~msphil/fnn/ The FNN Adventurer's Journal * ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/ archive of the Mystara-digest * http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/8315/ Loup-rouge's homepage * http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8264/ Ivanov's Homepage (in Spanish) * http://www.geocities.com/Area51/2524/mystara.html Hawk's Home Page information on an IRC Mystara campaign * http://members.aol.com/XDeum/legion.html Castle Misha. Part of the High Legion Clan * http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8306/index.html Alan's Dungeon Master Tools * http://gumby.une.edu.au/dnd/ The Gumby Dungeons and Dragons homepage Q: Where can I find a complete list of the material published for Mystara? A: The most complete lists to my knowledge is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2304/prodlist.html It includes rulebooks and modules published by TSR, Mystara-relevant Judge Guild supplements, a list of various magazine #s that contain adventures, rules or world description pertaining to Mystara, novels, TSR net resources, and Clark Ashton Smith stories related to Averoigne. All of these are ranked according to compatibility with Mystara (explicit, implicit, compatible, etc.) and the type of product (campaign source, rules supplement, adventure, etc.). Q: And where can I buy those products? A: Since the Mystara line is out of print, it is difficult to find them. If you're lucky you can find them in any shop that sells RPG stuff, or buy second-hand books. Some places where you can find Mystara stuff on the web: http://www.dragontrove.com/listing.html http://www.titan-games.com/ http://www.rpgspot.com/main.htm http://members.aol.com/HitPointe/index.htm http://www.eskimo.com/~darkh/ http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html http://www.darkharbor.com/darkharbor.html http://www.djhobby.com/catalog/index.html http://www.sagesguild.com/ http://www.crazyegors.com/ the newsgroup rec.games.frp.marketplace. Q: Where can I find the FAQ for the Mystara mailing list? A: Check at http://www.io.com/~oryon/mmlfaq.htm. AFAIK there is no plain text version of this FAQ. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #94 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:45:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #95 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Status: U mystara-digest Friday, February 20 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 095 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics [MYSTARA] - Flying Ships [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Eternal life and Inmortality Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:59:58 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts In the RL setting, it mentions that an elf's infravision is quite handy in spotting undead since they do not put out any heat. This may come in handy for RL and also explain why elves are so lacking in the DoD. But what about Mystara. I kinda am ill suited towards this. What's the use of developing a vampire and taking all these precautions if an elf can spot him with a simple glance. I mean surprise and the ability to blend into a populace is one of the survival skills of a vamp. Now I can see a lich being able to mask his appearance with spells. More likely, he would surround himself with undead and let them bear the brunt to keep the PCs from ever seeing the lich. Oh yes, if an elf can see an undead, then what about Princesses Carnelia and Carlotina. Now Brannart is secluded away doing his lich thing. But Morphail is a fairly visible (at least at night) Prince. Wouldn't the two elf Princesses spill the proverbial beans on him. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:05:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 Alex295@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-20 09:39:24 EST, you write: ><< >Rad doesn't need clerics, but he sure needs followers to survive as an >>Immortal, so that's why the Shepards are there, to keep the wizards philosophy going without the need for clerics. The wizards philosophy seems to be a very self-reliant one, one that says that you can be the greatest there is, clerics would just put that mindset down with their worship of higher beings. >You're missing the point; he HAS clerics! Look at his description in WotI; it's right there in bold print: Clerics. So the idea of no clerics is not accurate at all. >> >Glen has a point. Not only WotI but according to G:KoM. In it it says that the Temples of Rad are tended by Shepherds. It states that you should never call them priests. You can talk to them or meditate with them so they do have some clerical significance. >I don't have the Glantri Gaz so I am uncertain as to what it says. The Glantri an Alfheim Gazs seem the hardest to get. Basically it reveals that the Temples of Rad are a sham, the Shepards all wear magical talismans through which they think they hear the voice of Rad. In actual fact it is the voice of a member of the Brotherhood of the Radience (in some cases Etienne d'Ambreville, so it is the voice of Rad!). I don't have G:KOM, so I'm not sure if it reveals more there. Oh yeah, and the bash their heads off of gongs a lot and recite mantras: "Knowledge is light, light in the mind, I mind the ways o' Rad, Rad is the source of Knowledge!" "Magic is life, life is a spiral, I spiral to the Nucleus o' Rad, Rad is the source o' Magic!" gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:42:06 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Flying Ships << What I meant to ask about was the ships construction. After looking through the SJ material, I see that the only thing that makes a spelljammer magical is the helm. So, the rules for building skyships can't follow those. However, Champions of Mystara gives building guides that uses spells that have or can be adapted to AD&D without too much trouble so I suppose that would be the way to go. >> The flying ships of Mystara which were constructed based on fly are simply much better than the spelljammer ships. Viva Mystara!! But the deck plans are useful. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:42:08 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia << So the 'magical golden age' of Mystara ended with the sinking of Alphatia? Makes sense to me. No other country would be putting effort into producing weapons for fighters, clerics and thieves like the Alphatians. Glantri items would most likely be usable to mages only. Now that Alphatia is in the Hollow World, magic isn't so easy to use like before. This should be a great time to chronicle since the ending of an age is usually filled with many changes to other lands. >> Maybe not! When the pit is reopened, millions of Alphatians will have access to the Outer World. If not, the NACE will have to substitute the island. Bellissaria is big enough, in both cases. The only problem is the number of spellcasters as Bellissaria is only thin settled. When there will be no easy access to the OW, every DM will have to solve the problem of teaching magic to the youth. Remember that the minimum scores intelligence/wisdom are 16! I've found some solutions: 1. "The School Bus is coming": A special ship like the Princess Ark transports magical and clerical students to the OW, powered by Gnome craft or artifacts. 2. "Next floor primary school, please": The pit is reopened and the students can easily travel to the OW. 3. "Please step simply through the mirror": An artifact leads to a small pocket plane. This artifact could be similar to "Skarda's Mirror". New schools would have to be built, where spellcasting beginners can be teached. In the Outer World Bellissaria would be an appropiate place to construct these. (As you see, I do very much to give poor Bellissaria a good future.) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:46:26 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts At 11:59 AM 2/20/98 EST, you wrote: >In the RL setting, it mentions that an elf's infravision is quite handy in spotting undead since they do not put out any heat. This may come in handy for >RL and also explain why elves are so lacking in the DoD. But only if the elf thinks of it. It is a "reverse use" of infravision. Normally a person using infra is using it to see heat or cold. It is unlikely that he will be using it to find the absence of heat or cold. >But what about Mystara. I kinda am ill suited towards this. What's the use of developing a vampire and taking all these precautions if an elf can spot him with a simple glance. I mean surprise and the ability to blend into a populace >is one of the survival skills of a vamp. Perhaps vampire spellcasters and liches have a "put out heat" spell. >Now I can see a lich being able to mask his appearance with spells. More likely, he would surround himself with undead and let them bear the brunt to keep the PCs from ever seeing the lich. >Oh yes, if an elf can see an undead, then what about Princesses Carnelia and Carlotina. Now Brannart is secluded away doing his lich thing. But Morphail is >a fairly visible (at least at night) Prince. Wouldn't the two elf Princesses spill the proverbial beans on him. So what if they know? Maybe they have some sort of "stake" in his continued existence. Pardon my pun. But as much as the Glantrian wizards politic I am sure the DM can come up with ways these women would like to see Morphail continue. With a Glantrian prince it is not so much a question of "whether it is good to allow undead" but rather "how can undead benefit me". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:10:11 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia At 12:42 PM 2/20/98 EST, you wrote: ><< So the 'magical golden age' of Mystara ended with the sinking of Alphatia? >Maybe not! When the pit is reopened, millions of Alphatians will have access to the Outer World. What do you mean by "the pit"? Are you referring to the access to the Hollow World provided in WotI? If not, the NACE will have to substitute the >island. Substitute what? Bellissaria is big enough, in both cases. The only problem is the >number of spellcasters as Bellissaria is only thin settled. It has less population than the mainland continent of Alphatia. But that is not saying much as the mainland continent of Alphatia is incredibly dense. I would argue that there are still quite a few spellcasters in Bellisaria since there were before the sinking and there undoubtedly would be several survivors who would relocate to Bellisaria. Unless you have some canonical reference... >When there will be no easy access to the OW, I thought OW (Old World) was a new term for the Known World. Are you referring to the Hollow World or the Known World. I am just not sure of your point here. every DM will have to >solve the problem of teaching magic to the youth. Remember that the minimum scores intelligence/wisdom are 16! What minimum scores? I've found some solutions: >1. "The School Bus is coming": A special ship like the Princess Ark >transports magical and clerical students to the OW, powered by Gnome craft or artifacts. Sounds like a cool thing to include in AY2000 mainland Alphatia! >2. "Next floor primary school, please": The pit is reopened and the >students can easily travel to the OW. This is another statement that makes me wonder what setting you are referring to... >3. "Please step simply through the mirror": An artifact leads to a >small pocket plane. This artifact could be similar to "Skarda's Mirror". This could be another cool educational device for AY2000. >New schools would have to be built, where spellcasting beginners can be teached. In the Outer World Bellissaria would be an appropiate place to construct these. (As you see, I do very much to give poor Bellissaria a good future.) Good for you! Keep sticking up for the Bellisarians! >Jamuga Khan >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." Shouldn't you come up with a different saying when discussing Alphatia? Just a suggestion... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:36:38 EST From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon C = Criptonite G = Galwylin A = Alex295 C> You're absolutly right. Half-Elves are a horrible idea. C> They are too powerful and they would definatly unbalance Mystara. C> If you allow them to exist they'll conquer country after country C> until the world is theirs. Give me a break. C> If half-elves were in a D&D book they would be fine. C> But since the book they came in had a AD&D symbol on it they C> are a pollutant??? Great reasoning. C> Open you mind. G> Am I the only one that finds that sentence ironic? ;> A> No I spotted it too and it bothered me. I don't understand what you two are seeing. What exactly is ironic about what I said? Maybe you are misunderstanding me. Let me repeat. Galwylin earlier stated that he doesn't use half-elves with the sole reason being they came in a book with an AD&D label on it. I think this is a silly reason to take a race off of the planet. I think it is very closed-minded act. I would think the same if someone said that they hated Bruce Heard and therefore removed everything he wrote from Mystara. That's why I said "Open Your Mind." How is this ironic, considering I've never done something like that? A> But alas, it is his opinion and who am I to attempt to sway him. Are you trying to suggest that I am ignorant in some way? Are you saying that I am so stubborn that no matter how right you are and no matter what you say to me, because of my nescience i can not be influenced? Please clarify. G> Half-elves (pretending they exist) would not conquer the world. G> They simply would be too rare and face too many hardships to do so. G> One of the reasons they haven't gotten any farther in other worlds. Of course they wouldn't conquer the world. It was obviously a sarcastic statement. The point is if you put them in your world it's not going to pollute it. It can only add to it. Don't mistake me. I am not trying to tell you to put them in your world. I do though suggest that you don't leave them out soley because they are an AD&D creature. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:38:52 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 Alex295@aol.com wrote: >In the RL setting, it mentions that an elf's infravision is quite handy in spotting undead since they do not put out any heat. This may come in handy for RL and also explain why elves are so lacking in the DoD. >But what about Mystara. I kinda am ill suited towards this. What's the use of developing a vampire and taking all these precautions if an elf can spot him with a simple glance. I mean surprise and the ability to blend into a populace is one of the survival skills of a vamp. I have always treated Infravision in the same way that I've treated a human's nightvision. It takes some time to adjust to the darkness, and any light ruins it. Ofcourse a vampire being a rather nocturnal being might encounter the elves in darkness. But then he would be invisible.. Another thing. I've considered changing the Infravision of the elves into some kind of Nightvision. However considering the theory that the elves were once Yuan-ti, infravision seems to make more sense as this could be the legacy from their snake-like ancestors.. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:37:29 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And the Silence is Deafening... (B1 Adaptations) At 10:04 PM 2/19/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 06:22 PM 2/19/98 -0600, you wrote: >>On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:40:57 -0500 Daly writes: >>>At 10:10 AM 2/19/98 -0800, you wrote: >>>I think readaptations of old modules are great. And they reenergize an >>>interest in those beloved places. Thanks for your adaptations Jenni. I >>>believe you also mentioned the "Saltmarsh" modules...I would be interested >>>in seeing your adaptation of these! >>>I am planning on placing I2 Tomb of the Lizard King in the southern swamp >>>in Alphatia. I would be happy to share what I come up with if anyone is >>>interested... >>I am planning on running I2 and U1 in Darokin around the Malphegi (sp?) Swamp. I will modify U1 slightly so that the smugglers are running arms to whats-his-name, that vampiric lizardman, instead of the settlement described in U2. Upon reading the module description in U2 I am thinking of creating a river in The Confederacy of Dunadale called "Dunwater" and changing Saltmarsh to Helskir since they are both fishing villages. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:05:07 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon CRlPTONITE@aol.com wrote: >I don't understand what you two are seeing. What exactly is ironic about what I said? Maybe you are misunderstanding me. Let me repeat. Galwylin earlier stated that he doesn't use half-elves with the sole reason being they came in a book with an AD&D label on it. I think this is a silly reason to take a race off of the planet. I think it is very closed-minded act. I would think the same if someone said that they hated Bruce Heard and therefore removed everything he wrote from Mystara. That's why I said "Open Your Mind." How is this ironic, considering I've never done something like that? I think we're having a misunderstanding. Your post seemed very close-minded and then ended with 'Open Your Mind'. That was what I found ironic. Just one more correction... I didn't say I don't like half-elves because they have AD&D on them. I don't like the way AD&D presents half-elves. I'm also looking at ways I would prefer half-elves to appear in Mystara with out the blanket abilities that AD&D gives. >Are you trying to suggest that I am ignorant in some way? Are you saying that I am so stubborn that no matter how right you are and no matter what you say to me, because of my nescience i can not be influenced? Please clarify. You're reading too much into that statement. It seemed to me he disagreed with you and is working to have you see things the way he does. >Of course they wouldn't conquer the world. It was obviously a sarcastic statement. The point is if you put them in your world it's not going to pollute it. It can only add to it. Don't mistake me. I am not trying to tell you to put them in your world. I do though suggest that you don't leave them out soley because they are an AD&D creature. I agree with your last statement (to a point) but it was the sarcasm that didn't translate well that led to the misunderstanding. No offense was intended from either party, I'm sure. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:10:29 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 Alex295@aol.com wrote: >>But what about Mystara. I kinda am ill suited towards this. What's the use of developing a vampire and taking all these precautions if an elf can spot him with a simple glance. I mean surprise and the ability to blend into a populace is one of the survival skills of a vamp. >I have always treated Infravision in the same way that I've treated a human's nightvision. It takes some time to adjust to the darkness, and any light ruins it. Ofcourse a vampire being a rather nocturnal being might encounter the elves in darkness. But then he would be invisible.. If I understand infravision correctly, the only way for an elf to detect a vampire is if he encounters it in complete darkness. So, an elf could dance with one at a party and never know it (except from the chill touch) because the gathering has artifical light. So, I guess it is like some kind of nightvision and if a vampire is invisible and encounters an elf I guess there's no heat to 'see'. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:18:51 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia Why would Alphatian's seek to return to the outer world when their conquering spirit can be satisfied with the lands of the Hollow World? On the outer world, they are just one of many. I like Alphatia (had rather Glantri been the one to 'sink') but now that they are gone (to most), it's a good time for other countries to fill the gap themselves. And how long can Glantri remain top dog in the mage business? Might be that the other schools of magic see a chance to take Alphatia's place in learning and bring more focus to those countries (much to the dispare of the common folk). - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:21:44 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia Excellent observations! I had wondered about the date of the ascendancy of the spider cult in Thothia before (I am very interested in Aranea history) but had never sat down and worked it out. I wonder, what other facts can we glean from this? (for instance, when was it that a Thothian explorer visited Norwold? what was Tokoramses V's role in international politics at the time of the Thyatin independence? when did the Aranea and Phanatons come to IoD from Thorne? also, given Mystaros' work on the Stone Folk, what can we guess about the relationship between them, the Hunakoi, Gandhar, and Thothia? I have lots of ideas about the IoD but would love to hear any more thoughts you have about the canon and net-canon in this area before I stick my neck out (i'm already embroiled with you guys on Cynidicea and am having less and less free time as the quarter continues). peace, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:31:15 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts << But what about Mystara. I kinda am ill suited towards this. What's the use of developing a vampire and taking all these precautions if an elf can spot him with a simple glance. I mean surprise and the ability to blend into a populace is one of the survival skills of a vamp. With vampire's i usually have them give off a heat radience if they have fed recently, and as time goes by...the blood slowly loses its heat. Also, realize that undead aren't the only creatures that don't give off heat. Lizardmen don't....and anything else coldblooded for that matter.....but anyways it would have to be at night too. I'm sure that in Glantri....there are many whom don't show heat/cold for whatever reason. Just noticeing a lack of heat may rise a few eyebrows...but it doesn't necessarily give away the true nature of the character. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:34:22 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) Actually, the Mystaran view of the little gits fits how I like to run 'em as a DM--just the tiniest hair shy of sociopathic as a species. Yeah, they're loads of grins, but they'll take a human's scrotum to tan as a money-pouch soon as look at you, too. Piranha on legs... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:34:45 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia << When there will be no easy access to the OW, every DM will have to solve the problem of teaching magic to the youth. >> Why would the DM have to solve the problem of teaching magic to the youth? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:33:09 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves Very well presented, Alex. I think some physical diadvantages should have been touched on. And have you thought of instead of elven women having a 'switch' to instead go into a mating cycle (like Spock on Star Trek or the story of 'Raistlin's Daughter' in which the mother accidently initiated a need to bare a child from Raist). I enjoyed it and think it could be used well in other settings. Cheers for Alex! - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:38:58 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Eternal life and Inmortality On 20 Feb 1998 3@giga.com.ar wrote: >Ok. There are two different things. >If I have eternal life, I don't an Inmortal. The Inmortal is a synonym of power, and eternal life is simply "living for ever". So if I'm don't wrong, the Inmortals are Gods. So the word "Inmortal" it's not correct when it used in D&D. Actually, the Immortals of D&D do function as "gods", at least in Mystara. Furthermore, even PCs can theoretically rise to such station. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:40:23 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts >But only if the elf thinks of it. It is a "reverse use" of infravision. Normally a person using infra is using it to see heat or cold. It is unlikely that he will be using it to find the absence of heat or cold. But...wouldn't you think it would be kinda weird when you see someone in front of you and they're not radiating heat?? It would probably be much easier to see considering how rare it is to see someone not radiating heat.. >Perhaps vampire spellcasters and liches have a "put out heat" spell. I really doubt creatures as powerfull as vamps and liches will waste the time creating a spell like that and actually using it every time they go out at night. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:41:25 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Neal Daskal wrote: >A feature of the AD&D system that some people (not me) like is that with the plethora of class/race/kit combos character I guess the youngsters just can't handle the idea of the DM making up rules as needed for new situations and requirements. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:44:53 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< I am always careful to pay attention to official canon. I >would appreciate it if you can in turn be careful to think before you speak and not make ridiculous statements such as the one at the top, nor to accuse me of trying to change what has been written before ... all I have done is to logically interpret that information so that it makes sense ... which you seem somewhat unwilling to do. >> >The problem is, that some guys on the MML use this idea as "official" in discussions, while other don't even like it. It is really a big problem. We can discuss such points, but sooner or later a decision has to be made. By who? For whom? Make your own decisions, but don't try to enforce them on me. If you would like to participate in cooperatively designing further background for Mystara, then why not try to use the material other people have designed as much as possible? Aren't you asking them to do this with your material? If not, why are you participating in the discussion? If you aren't interested in compromising in order to share ideas, don't bother, I for one won't miss you. If you are interested, then why not give all information a chance unless it is directly contradictory to previous information in such a way as to be unworkable? If you don't do this, you are disrespecting others' work, and if you do this then you will not be easy to cooperate with in further fleshing out Mystara. You keep calling for a decision to be made about what is official and what is not and I haven't once seen you suggest a set of rational principles upon which such a decision could be reached, which suggests to me that you want to give the arbitrary decisions of some hypothetical representative body to take precedence over the hard work and careful painstaking research of myself and other contributors on this list. Get a clue. m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #95 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:43:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #96 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Status: U mystara-digest Friday, February 20 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 096 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? [MYSTARA] - Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine List Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:52:57 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors >peace & anarchy, >m@2 >> >I think that this is too simple. What if I as a master decide that IMC nothing of your stuff will be used. We start a big discussion only to discover that you are talking about your own canon which I don't accept? Such things have appeared already. We really should classify some net material as half official and the rest as inofficial. AAARARARRRAAAAAARCCHGGHHHGHHHHH! will you please LISTEN this time? You have every right to include or not include whatever you want in your own campaign and no authority, not TSR, not the Almanac editors, not Leroy, and least of all me, can stop you or coerce you in ANY WAY. No one is suggesting that it is even possible for things to be otherwise. HOWEVER, if we are going to have a discussion about Mystara in which we want to PROGRESSIVELY DEVELOP a world that the company has ABANDONED, then we will HAVE to be able to build on previously developed net-canon material in order for this project to go forward. this is by definition a requirement of the various m-development projects. now, you can participate, listen, or butt out completely, but you have given us NO legitimate reason for "classifying" things as canon, net-canon, quasi-canon, demi-canon, or whatever. The only thing that could even pass for a reason which you have given so far is your fear that you will get involved in discussion which will turn to subjects you don't like to talk about. All I can say to that is, cope! there isn't any other way to have a cooperative and open-ended discussion without this danger. >BTW, remember anybody, that TSR called the D&D products as "Product of Your imagination"? From this point it were not honest to sick the lawyers after us when we try to keep Mystara alive... this is exactly what i've been trying to say. m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:57:32 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Online City On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, David Keyser wrote: >>How about Selenica in Darokin? It is one of the most cosmopolitan. It probably has ghettos for each of the neighboring countries. >I mentioned a bit about it in the 1015 almanac for Darokin, and it is mentioned somewhat in Joshuan's Almanac. I see it as being the most Ylari influenced city (obviously), with a large dwarvish population to boot. Don't forget the Doulakki influence from olden days, the remnants of Tuman architecture, the Elvish influences, the very small Makistani contingent, the Traladaran migrant laborers, and the recent Hattian influx. :) m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:01:26 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts At 03:40 PM 2/20/98 EST, you wrote: >>But only if the elf thinks of it. It is a "reverse use" of infravision. Normally a person using infra is using it to see heat or cold. It is unlikely that he will be using it to find the absence of heat or cold. >But...wouldn't you think it would be kinda weird when you see someone in front >of you and they're not radiating heat?? It would probably be much easier to see considering how rare it is to see someone not radiating heat.. In Glantri? I doubt very many of those cold-blooded wizards radiate heat! >>Perhaps vampire spellcasters and liches have a "put out heat" spell. >I really doubt creatures as powerfull as vamps and liches will waste the time creating a spell like that and actually using it every time they go out at night. They certainly would if they did not want to be detected by a heat detection type of spell. And they could permanence it too so that it would not be "every time". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:02:48 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia At 02:18 PM 2/20/98 -0600, you wrote: >Why would Alphatian's seek to return to the outer world when their conquering spirit can be satisfied with the lands of the Hollow World? On the outer world, they are just one of many. I like Alphatia (had rather Glantri been the one to 'sink') but now that they are gone (to most), it's a good time for other countries to fill the gap themselves. And how long can Glantri remain top dog in the mage business? Might be that the other schools of magic see a chance to take Alphatia's place in learning and bring more focus to those countries (much to the dispare of the common folk). I agree. Although I do see Glantri as filling a seperate role in the area of magic. I have been toying recently with the idea of having the coming of the Alphatians to the HW have some unforeseen effects. 1) The Immortals expected the Alphatians to be just as complacent in the HW as they were in the outer world. But in reality the Alphatians, so newly come from a war, are energized by the lands around them in the HW. They are aware of the effects of the Spell of Preservation as they realize there is something stagnating their growth as a nation. Practical magical research and experimentation just does not work and it quickly becomes obvious. The mages start to theorize about the existence of the Spell of Preservation and an intelligent entity behind it. 2) The Alphatians are the only transplants who have knowledge of the outer world. This and their already incredible magic power gives them an advantage over the Hollow Worlders. 3) They do have some respect for the people of the HW. Nithians and Milenians both show a certain degree of civilized behaviour and the elves of Blacklore have some interesting knowledge. 4) In the coming years the Alphatians become the supreme power in the HW and re-establish contact with the outer world. 5) They will actively seek to destroy the Spell of Preservation. >-- >This has been a Galwylin© Production >galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) >http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:05:14 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts << I have always treated Infravision in the same way that I've treated a human's nightvision. It takes some time to adjust to the darkness, and any light ruins it. >> In D&D terms...i believe that's called Ultravision. I think that would be better if Elves did have Ultravision instead of Infravision. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:15:19 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D >I guess the youngsters just can't handle the idea of the DM making up rules as needed for new situations and requirements. Can't you see the silver-lining in anything? I'm not for kits either, but the ideas and rules and suggestions within many of the kits can really help a campaign out. It gives ideas to the DM....allowing his DMing tools to expand and grow. One thing you are semi-correct in is how it is so helpfull to the younger players. I know that's not exactly what you said, but hey if someone wants to be a loner-type or a hunter-type, then you have a full reference of ideas, NWPs, WPs, and much more to add to the charecter sheet and allow the PC to understand her character better. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:24:01 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia << 4) In the coming years the Alphatians become the supreme power in the HW and re-establish contact with the outer world. >> .....and how do you expect them to accomplish this??? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:27:39 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >Hmmm...this sure is a passionate debate that's started, isn't it? yup, you can say that again. >I think, regardless of what's been said on either side, that _something_ should be put into place that should decide, once and for all, what is official and what is not. Mind you, I still think that the ultimate decision should be up to the individual DM. This is directly self-contradictory, though you are not alone in failing to recognize it. I continue to stand as the "official anarchist" on the list in saying that having a decision made "officially" means giving up the possibility of making an individual decision, or it means nothing at all. In either case it's a waste of time because there is no way to *enforce* an official decision, even if you wanted to. The only possible way that this can have any effect other than bringing Jamuga a false sense of righteousness would be if Leroy actively booted people off the list for talking about Mystara-info without "official" recognition ... and I would hope we could all agree that this would be a chillingly unpleasant proposition. I realize that I am being passionate about this and probably stepping on a few toes, but I would like to point out that I have not once advocated imposing any kind of official decision or censorship upon anybody, all I've done is defend myself and complain about the disrespect of others, who (I'm not sure about this) seem to be calling for the establishment of an official body with the power to punish me arbitrarily ... I think the burden of proof is still with those who want to create such a body, and no one has yet suggested a compelling reason for doing so. >Personally, I would like to discuss my creations without having to put "IMC"s all over my email messages - and I think that, when I am discussing my creations with people such as Matt, Harvard, or Fabrizio (for example), whom I now know use (or intend to use) my material, I should be able to discuss such things as the Carnifex authoritatively, and except authoritatiive responses. This is because, for myself, Matt, and others, the Carnifex Tyranny et al _are_ canon, although quasi-canon compared to things like TSR products. I think Matt, Havard, and Fabrizio would agree with me here. I don't worry myself about whether these things are canon or not. I could care less about such issues, which I find meaningless. I use your Carnifex material because it works with the Mystara I already knew, it adds new and interesting dimension to that world, it makes my campaign more detailed, and because as a fellow artist I appreciate your efforts and the fact that you've been kind enough to make them freely available to me; to do any less would, I think, indicate one of 4 things: 1) that I was unnecessarily obsessed with legal issues to the point of refusing to use material not put out by TSR 2) that I was not interested in expanding Mystara through new material and preferred to leave it just as it is 3) that I thought there was something wrong or fishy about your material that should cause me to not use it or 4) I just prefer to do things my own way and have a very individualized campaign. Now, case #4 is perfectly fine, but in this case I probably won't make use of a lot TSR-canon material either, so making something official or unofficial isn't particularly relevant. In case 3) I would think I should be able to give some particular reason *why* I chose to reject your Carnifex material as opposed to all the other available Mystara information (which I've never seen anyone do). In case 2) I don't suppose I would be attempting to participate in a project such as the Cynidicea group. And in case 1) I would just be plain foolish and ought to rethink my position about TSR because it makes no sense. And at any rate if I wanted my own attitude to become binding upon others, I ought to advance some reasonable argument other than just "we need to know what's official! we can't go on without knowing what's official!" >I see your point, Jamuga. What if you don't have the Carnifex tyranny > IYC, and you see me discussing it? How should you treat it? Jamuga can treat it however he likes, just as before. If he is interested in new and well developed M-info, I would think he would probably like it ... your stuff is really good work. If not, well, that's his deal ... but then why is he attempting to foul up the Cynidicea project by persisting in this debate about officialness? It's not going to help him come to a rational decision, it's only going to make him feel vindicated (an empty victory) *unless*, as I fear, he is trying to censor me. That scares me, and makes me mad. >resolve this matter once and for all. If the majority like certain aspects of net-canon, I will post those results to the list to inform everyone that "the people have spoken on the matter". How we deal with it from there is up to all of us. I just think we're getting nowhere right now, and at least if we knew what people thougt about different pieces of material, we might be better off. I don't even know if I want the majority to be censoring me ... what if there ARE Mystarans who want to work off of what I've done, why should their ability to do so be impeded by some sort of editorial body whose sole function is NOT to insure the quality of work (which it can't really do effectively or fairly any better than the authors themselves) but to impede creativity on behalf of some imagined conservative majority. I wasn't around when Mystaros first posted all of his net canon stuff, nor when you (Geoff) posted yours, and if I had been, I dare say I might have made all kinds of suggestions about how it could have been done differently. But now you've done the work, it's consistent and reasonable, and it makes Mystara better developed ... For me to call it "unofficial" is just to disrespect your work and to shoot myself in the foot (since my whole goal getting on this list was to get more info about mystara ... and i must say what i've gotten from this list is way better developed and more interesting than much of what i've ever seen from TSR, and it's free! who can complain about that?) m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:48:52 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? I am still trying to figure out why some folks on this list are on such an authoritarian head-trip. There is no need to designate material as being "net canon" or "canon" at all. We all know or can find out what has been published by TSR and by members of this list and other folks. What solid justification can there be for givine quasi-religious status to some of it as "canonical"? How is this "canon" to be enforced? What coercive powers does the enforcing body have? What means are to be taken to squelch heretics who don't agree with Holy Canon? Is it all nothing more than ego masturbation? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:18:56 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia At 04:24 PM 2/20/98 EST, you wrote: ><< >4) In the coming years the Alphatians become the supreme power in the HW and re-establish contact with the outer world. >> >.....and how do you expect them to accomplish this??? How do I expect them not to? If I assume the other points then this naturally follows. Their ability to dominate any society that is not aspowerful as they is not questionable. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:21:20 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors At 01:27 PM 2/20/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >>Hmmm...this sure is a passionate debate that's started, isn't it? >yup, you can say that again. I still say the whole problem with this canon debate thing is that there are no concrete examples to draw from. If someone wants to pounce on another list member for putting forth an idea, let him do so and then we can all pounce on that guy for being such a jerk. Otherwise...everybody just relax! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:23:13 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? At 04:48 PM 2/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >I am still trying to figure out why some folks on this list are on such an authoritarian head-trip. There is no need to designate material as being "net canon" or "canon" at all. We all know or can find out what has been published by TSR and by members of this list and other folks. What solid justification can there be for givine quasi-religious status to some of it as "canonical"? How is this "canon" to be enforced? What coercive powers does the enforcing body have? What means are to be taken to squelch heretics who don't agree with Holy Canon? You know, it reminds me of alot of justification for law enaction that goes on today in America. It reminds me much less of religion... Is it all nothing more >than ego masturbation? EEEEeeeeewwwwww! Keep your private lives private! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:27:41 -0500 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: At 02:50 PM 2/16/98 PST, you wrote: >>I need some opinions, >>I know how I can get a brand new, shrink-wrapped X11 "Saga of the Shadowlord" for 48$. Is it worth it? >>Thanks >WHERE????????????????????????????--i've been looking for that module forever! (If it's a dealer, could you please tell me their URL? >**If you want your reply message to go through, please send to my private address or without a subject line--my mail dumps the list if I'm gone for a few days at a time. Thanks** Sorry it took so long to respond! It was www.earthsea.com I think. But the feeling I am getting is that is a REALLY bad price for the module. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:30:53 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Glen Sprigg wrote: >This I can accept: Rad is the only Immortal worshipped (legally) in Glantri; sort of the State Religion. That way, clerics of Asterius, Ixion, etc. get kicked out and banned, but at least there are some people capable of healing the sick and injured (and the undead) in Glantri. There are definitely underground (illegal) clerics in Glantri- the Ten Thousand Fists of Khan are notable here (Ethengarian agents fomenting discord), the Followers of the Claymore. There are also any number of clerics hiding around the nation- it is a big nation, and shouldn't be too difficult to hide for a long time, provided one doesn't overtly practice their techniques. If you place CM8: The Endless Stair in Glantri, it's suggested location (I do), there are a few clerics of the Hero Sect (forget it's name)- they honor dead and forgotten heroes whom they believe will one day return to life. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:32:34 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >I am still trying to figure out why some folks on this list are on such an authoritarian head-trip. There is no need to designate material as being "net canon" or "canon" at all. We all know or can find out what has been published by TSR and by members of this list and other folks. What solid justification can there be for givine quasi-religious status to some of it as "canonical"? How is this "canon" to be enforced? What coercive powers does the enforcing body have? What means are to be taken to squelch heretics who don't agree with Holy Canon? Is it all nothing more than ego masturbation? To keep this from degenerating into a 'I'm right, you're wrong' argument... what is it that is the problem? I've stated that canon works for me simply by helping me keep from having to devote time to all areas of the world when my campaign is only involved in a small part at the time. I use it as a guide. I don't want, hope or think it wonderful to go through thousands of ideas picking them apart and sorting them just to decide that someplace I may never use has a history. A group doing this and calling it canon works for me this way. If I ever use that area then I have a general idea of it that I can use or change to suit me, saving time. Good ideas are for me to work in as I see fit and canon gives me an place to begin with any changes I want. If the 'canon' Elves of Alfheim hadn't been written then I would have to devote to developing the area myself instead of taking what is published and tweaking it to my use. By the way, there are no 'canon police'. It's a tool that no one can or ever desires to enforce in another's game but it does give us all common ground to discuss changes we have made. This saves everyone from reading the history of an area more than once. The discussion can proceed from any point which is well known to others without explaining everything. If you disagree with canon, just tell us where and how you have changed it. Hiding behind an argument of how there should be no canon isn't sharing anything with us. Taking what you have given us, I think you're arguing to have this list stop discussing Mystara. And if people sound authoritarian, it's their campaign that they have put much work into and like it. I could hardly blame them for thinking it something special that others should look closely into. Doesn't mean that they can force us to use it and if our ideas disagree with theirs, then, of course, we're wrong in a way in their eyes. Discussions and collaborations never begin with both parties in agreement on everything. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:48:58 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia Daly wrote: >At 04:24 PM 2/20/98 EST, you wrote: >><< >>4) In the coming years the Alphatians become the supreme power in the HW and re-establish contact with the outer world. >> >>.....and how do you expect them to accomplish this??? >How do I expect them not to? If I assume the other points then this naturally follows. Their ability to dominate any society that is not as powerful as they is not questionable. I could see this happening. Unlike other nations of the Hollow World, many Alphatians have knowledge that they once dwelt elsewhere. That knowledge alone would compel them to find out where they are, which we've seen in PWAs. How it happened and why they were destroyed on the outer world would probably be next on their minds. The sheer number of mages on the continent would mean that Hollow World magic would be investigated and it's limits found faster with a work around for what doesn't work any longer. Then they have all these ignorant nations that look (to them) to need to leadership. We've seen that all people when encountering others that don't meet their own kind of 'civilization' are looked upon as 'lacking' in some way and searching for someone to show them the 'correct' way. I think the Immortals may have unleashed something they might not be able to control into the Hollow World. The key to growing the Alphatian civilization will be to destroy the Spell of Preservation. If that happens, there could be ancient civilizations wiped out that the Immortals had hope to preserve. This is all speculation but Alphatia shouldn't be counted on to remain complacent. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:06:45 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D In a message dated 98-02-19 19:25:11 EST, 3@giga.com.ar writes: >I was wondering... >The D&D game has 36 levels and the AD&D has 20 level. When you start playing D&D, until level 4 your adventure will be in closed places. But after that you'll have adventures in "the world", I mean in the surface. >So D&D has 12 level more then AD&D. >In D&D, to reach 36th level you'll need to rejuvenate many times. But in AD&D you can get the 20nd level so easy and just getting 50 years old. If you include the "High Level Options" book then AD&D characters can reach 30th level. Also, given that very high level characters in AD&D require approximately twice as many XPs to reach the next level as D&D characters, it would seem that in most cases an AD&D character needs many more XPs to reach maximum level than a similar D&D character. Although in the available gaming materials it seems that high level D&D characters are more likely than high level AD&D characters to have magically extended life spans, it is not clear to me why the D&D characters really need the extra time. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:07:03 -0800 From: David Keyser Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine List >This one sounds interesting, I couldn't find it in the back issues of Dragon on the tsr website, do you have a rough outline of what it was about? The article only talks about what a great resource the Gazeteer series of accessories are. It only has a few sentences of new ideas, which anyone with the Gazeteers could come up with themselves. Dave Keyser *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:42:13 PST From: "Martin Edwards" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts >>...What's the use of >>developing a vampire and taking all these precautions if an elf can spot him >>with a simple glance. I mean surprise and the ability to blend into a >populace >>is one of the survival skills of a vamp. >Perhaps vampire spellcasters and liches have a "put out heat" spell. I like this a lot. IMHO it only needs to be a fairly low level spell (cf. Faerie Fire or Climate) and, besides, those Boldavian mages already know heat spells to keep their ice from melting in the summer ;-) >>Oh yes, if an elf can see an undead, then what about Princesses Carnelia and >>Carlotina. Now Brannart is secluded away doing his lich thing. But Morphail is >>a fairly visible (at least at night) Prince. Wouldn't the two elf Princesses >>spill the proverbial beans on him. >So what if they know? Maybe they have some sort of "stake" in his continued >existence. Pardon my pun. But as much as the Glantrian wizards politic I >am sure the DM can come up with ways these women would like to see Morphail >continue. With a Glantrian prince it is not so much a question of "whether >it is good to allow undead" but rather "how can undead benefit me". I agree with this analysis for Carnelia, but IMC, I like to play Carlotina as one of the few members of the Council of Princes who does not act solely in self-interest. If she were to discover Morhpail’s true nature I believe she would do what she could to help liberate the oppressed underclass of Boldavia (or at least to investigate the situation further). GAZ3 provides an important ‘stake’ (ouch) in Morphail’s continued existence, when it says that ‘should he be destroyed, all those Boldavian undead will become independent, and so no wise mage will ever try anything against him.’ Furthermore, Morphail enforces the Vampire’s Law among his pawns exerting a certain level of control over the spread of vampirism. In recent Glantrian history two princes were created (Kol and Malachie), at least in part because of the control that they could exert over threatening and ‘monstrous’ sections of the population (‘noids and lycanthropes respectively). IMHO, the Vampire’s Law goes against Morphail’s nature (his mission from Alphaks is to spread vampirism) but it is a necessary policy for his self-preservation. Having said that, PWA1-3 refer to a spread of vampirism out of Boldavia and in to the rest of Glantri. This could be interpreted to mean that Morphail has lost control over the farthest wings of his army of pawns. Alternatively, it could be that he thinks it is a safe time to expand his sphere of influence. Tolerance of other races is at an all-time high in Glantri with two werewolves, a kobold, a vampire, a lich and a night dragon on the Council. And vampirism (or its pretence) is viewed as somewhat ‘fashionable’ in high society (ref. G:KoM and JA). If other mages were to learn that Morphail is directly responsible for this wave of vampirism they might be more likely to take action against him. (Just my opinion of course.) Martin Edwards ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:58:39 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics At 23.01 19/02/98 -0500, Glen Sprigg wrote: >Okay, I have a problem with this concept of no clerics in Glantri. Glantri has (or had) at least one Immortal running around, and even a sort-of church; Rad! Remember the Brothers of Rad (or whatever they were called)? Sheperds of Rad IIRC. >In WotI, under Rad's description, it talks about clerics of Rad getting a bonus to Int and Wis, and that they must be Lawful. And where else would he be worshipped outside of Glantri? IMC I apply those bonuses to Sheperds of Rad. They're not real clerics (actually they're mages IIRC), but their role in Glantrian society is that of clerics. Similarly I apply the bonuses for Rafiel's clerics to Shadow Elves shamans. >Has anyone else noticed this oddity? Sure, it makes for interesting 'flavour' to keep clerics out of Glantri, as well as making it tough on adventurers (no undead turning, no quick healing). But I don't buy that there wouldn't be any clerics around at all. Before WotI (see PC4) clerics were allowed to enter Glantri, but under heavy restrictions. During WotI the plague forced the Princes to temporarily loosen this restrictions to allow more clerics to enter Glantri. But obviously these are all foreign clerics, I guess there're very few Glantrian born clerics and I'm not sure if they would worship Rad. >This I can accept: Rad is the only Immortal worshipped (legally) in Glantri; sort of the State Religion. That way, clerics of Asterius, Ixion, etc. get kicked out and banned, but at least there are some people capable of healing the sick and injured (and the undead) in Glantri. To cure people: Sheperd of Rads, alchemists (healing potions), mystics from Lhasa (sp?), people with healing skills. Against undead: necromancers, someone with potions of undead control. To cure lychantropy: nobody. No wonder Glantri has a lychantropic Principality (Morlay-Malimbois) and two undead Principalities (Boldavia (mostly vampires and nosferatu), Klantrie (ghosts, whights, spectres...)). - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #96 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:19:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #97 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Saturday, February 21 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 097 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine List Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts Re: [MYSTARA] - Eternal life and Inmortality Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin and the Shires Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Eternal life and Inmortality Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia [MYSTARA] - Re: Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - Ochaelan cities [MYSTARA] - Spelljammer and Mystara [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 01:45:43 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine List At 09.13 20/02/98 -0500, Glen Sprigg wrote: >At 12:19 PM 2/20/98 +0100, you wrote: >>Someone asked about this a while ago. >>Herve, can you put this list (just the issue numbers) in your Mystara FAQ? (Original list is by Daniel Boese) >I mentioned this once before in a private E-mail to someone, but there are a few other articles floating around that have nothing to do with the Princess Ark. 158 talks about OD&D dragons, although it's not quite Mystara-specific. 170 talks about the life cycle of dragons in OD&D, and 171 discusses the dragon nations of the Known World. I know that, but I just copied, pasted and posted the original list by Daniel Boese adding two recent issues at the end. Fell free to update it and remember to send the revised version to the MML. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 01:51:55 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics At 09.18 20/02/98 -0500, Glen Sprigg wrote: >You're missing the point; he HAS clerics! Look at his description in WotI; it's right there in bold print: Clerics. So the idea of no clerics is not accurate at all. No wait! WotI has the same sort of entry for all Immortals, but not all of them really have clerics. There're not _known_ clerics of Rad, Rafiel and immortals like the Shining One or Kaarash. Rafiel and Kaarash have shamans, Rad has sheperds. If they'll ever happen to have clerics, than those clerics would follow the guidelines of WotI, but the description of Rad's clerics doesn't assure their existance. IMC I had a Shaman of Rafiel reincarnated into a human cleric of Rafiel, probably the sole cleric of Rafiel in Mystara. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:02:45 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia In a message dated 98-02-20 18:33:11 EST, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >The key to growing the Alphatian >civilization will be to destroy the Spell of Preservation. If that happens, there could be ancient civilizations wiped out that the Immortals had hope to preserve. This is all speculation but Alphatia shouldn't be counted on to remain complacent. Alternatively, they may learn enough about the Spell of Preservation to understand it, accommodate it, work around its loopholes, and even exploit its benefits rather than destroy it, which may be a goal as much beyond their power as destroying the Red Curse is for the folk who live on the Savage Coast. Given the range of possibilities already implicit in Alphatian culture, I would imagine that the Spell of Preservation would not restrict them very much, nor would they gain any sort of special compensations. The main thing that the Spell of Preservation stops the Alphatians from doing is destroying or assimilating the "lesser" cultures -- and I suspect that the Alphatians are well on the way to realizing that they don't want to do that anyway. Also, the higher attribute requirements (16+ rather than 9+) for learning magic would impede future generations of spellcasters -- but re-establishing contact with the outer world would compensate for that restriction to some extent. All the Alphatians would have to do is send promising young people to the outer world, where they can learn basic magic if they have sufficient talent. Then they would be able to progress normally after they return to the Hollow World. If the Alphatians develop a spell for detecting magic talent, they could quite efficiently determine exactly which young people should be sent on these expeditions. As to "benefits" of the Spell of Preservation -- note that Hollow World cultures that have not developed the use of iron can use weapons of their own technological level as if they were made of iron. This is a powerful advantage, and one that the Alphatians could readily exploit if they are able to form alliances with the more primitive peoples. They could equip these mercenaries quite cheaply! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:02:40 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia In a message dated 98-02-17 18:10:11 EST, ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu writes: >Personally, I prefer having Thothia founded by Tokoramses, and Ramenhotep >taking over later on... if only because it means that, with only 23 Ramenhoteps thus far (not counting the current one, who took over in 1002 AC), each one must have ruled, on average, something like 80+ years. Which I personally don't much care for, but, YMMV. Here is something you may not have thought of -- does 23 Ramenhoteps necessarily imply 23 Ramenhoteps in direct succession? Or is it possible that some of the Pharaohs of Thothia during the era in question had names other than Ramenhotep? If so, then each Pharaoh could have reigned for considerably less than 80 years. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:32:24 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts In a message dated 98-02-20 15:50:21 EST, Inconu@aol.com writes: >I'm sure that in Glantri....there are many whom >don't show heat/cold for whatever reason. Just noticeing a lack of heat may rise a few eyebrows...but it doesn't necessarily give away the true nature of the character. Glantri City (the most likely place for an elf to meet a vampire such as Boris, Morphail's brother), is well lit with globes of "Continual Light". All a vampire has to do to avoid detection by infravision is remain within the glow of these lights, which (if I am not mistaken) would utterly ruin the elf's infravision. I think that the only way an elf would have any hope of detecting a vampire would be if he passed within 60 feet of the vampire in the dark -- something that the vampire could easily prevent under most circumstances. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:32:58 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Eternal life and Inmortality On 20 Feb 1998 3@giga.com.ar wrote: << Ok. There are two different things. If I have eternal life, I don't an Inmortal. The Inmortal is a synonym of power, and eternal life is simply "living for ever". So if I'm don't wrong, the Inmortals are Gods. So the word "Inmortal" it's not correct when it used in D&D. >> As other have pointed out, an Immortal is a powerful being, generally once mortal, who now exists at the same level as a "God". The Immortals of Mystara are perhaps most like the ancient Gods of the Greeks: beings with power far beyond that of mortal men, able to withstand the draining effects of the ages (the "Eternal Life" factor), yet still able to die... As for those with "Eternal Life", well, there is the unusual example of Atruaghin... and of course, any one of a number of Undead critters... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:44:58 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin and the Shires Glen Sprigg meandered fecklessly... >Here's a point to note: the Shires are the only halfling nation in any TSR-canon material I've ever seen; another unique point about Mystara. Just for the record... Luiren, on Toril, is a halfling nation. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:02:55 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes In regard to the idea of adapting the Mystara world for AD&D -- one thing to consider would be the approach to level limits. On Mystara, all sentient beings (with the possible exceptions of fairies and certain Hollow World denizens) can potentially advance to levels high enough to be considered as candidates for Immortality. For Mystara, this would suggest that all races be able to advance to level 30 in any class -- but that non-humans who exceed published limits have to earn 2-4 times as many XPs to advance in level. This seemingly minor point would give the world of Mystara a very different flavor from other AD&D worlds -- where else would an Elf Fighter/Mage of level 30/30 be possible even in theory? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:02:50 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes In a message dated 98-02-19 06:37:57 EST, greis@dorit.ihi.ku.dk writes: >But I haven't really thought any thing >special yet, perhaps a limited empathy among elves or a further development of their infravision (which I am pretty tired of, it seems like most people, except the most generic humans, possess that ability, especially in AD&D) or atune them more to their enviroment, give them an ability to draw minor magic from their surroundings (city elves draw from buildings and forest elves from their forests etc.) much like the minor magical abilities of the HW Nithians or the magic a first level trader from Darokin possess. Hmmm.... given the close bond that Elven clans have for their Trees of Life, maybe spellcasting level of Elves should be based on the vegetation in the vicinity, something like a Preserver (certainly NOT a Defiler, at least for most clans). The highest bonus would be reserved for a Treekeeper who is within sight of his clan's Tree of Life, while a similar penalty would be assessed for an Elf attempting to cast spells in a lifeless desert (which would provide one more reason for Elves to avoid Ylaruam). Elves in grassy fields or natural caverns would have no bonus or penalty. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:02:53 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Random Thoughts In a message dated 98-02-20 12:15:31 EST, Alex295@aol.com writes: >But what about Mystara. I kinda am ill suited towards this. What's the use of >developing a vampire and taking all these precautions if an elf can spot him >with a simple glance. I mean surprise and the ability to blend into a populace is one of the survival skills of a vamp. The key to avoiding detection would be to make sure that the vampire always carries a torch or similar form of light that would spoil infravision. After all, if a vampire is pretending to be human, he supposedly can't see in the dark, right? Therefore, there would be nothing suspicious about the vampire ensuring that he always has light handy. And given the reputation that the undead have for lurking in dark places, an apparent fear of the dark would go a long way towards averting suspicion of the vampire's true nature. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:02:40 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes In a message dated 98-02-19 06:37:57 EST, greis@dorit.ihi.ku.dk writes: >IMC any elf living among humans are unable to reach a higher level of >spellcasting (can't progress beyon 10th lv), they are too different in their wielding of magic and must be taught be either faeries (IMC) or elves possessing elven magic (as the Alfheimers or the Shadowelves, but also the Wendarians and in Glantris Great School of Magic there are certain courses for elves), so elves in certain parts of the world must travel far to learn more powerful magic. Of course, one area in which Mystaran Elves have a major advantage is in the magical abilities of even ordinary Elves. In Mystara (but not in most AD&D worlds), nearly every Elf has the abilities of a 1st level or better Mage, whereas Human Mages are relatively rare. There are probably nowhere near enough Human Mages who can cast spells of level 6+ to compensate for this racial advantage. Throw in the ability of some Elves to learn higher level spells, and that much vaunted superiority of Human Mages vanishes completely. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:25:17 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian clerics In a message dated 98-02-20 12:24:37 EST, gordon@Tierce.hea.ie writes: >Oh yeah, and the bash their heads off of gongs a lot and recite mantras: That reminds me of an interesting application of that practice that I used in my campaign. I ruled that bashing one's head on gongs at a Temple of Rad would allow a character to exchange wisdom for intelligence -- two points of wisdom lost per point of intelligence gained, as per the D&D rules for character generation. There was one dim witted NPC in my campaign who used this technique to raise his intelligence all the way to 9 (!) at the cost of reducing his wisdom to 3.... Naturally, none of the player characters in my campaign took advantage of this "opportunity". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:25:11 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Eternal life and Inmortality In a message dated 98-02-20 21:49:02 EST, Mystaros@aol.com writes: >The Immortals of Mystara >are perhaps most like the ancient Gods of the Greeks: beings with power far beyond that of mortal men, able to withstand the draining effects of the ages (the "Eternal Life" factor), yet still able to die... That sounds more like the Norse gods than the Greek gods. As near as I can tell, the Greek gods were unkillable. Not so for the Norse gods -- in fact, they were all fated to die during the great war of Ragnarok.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:21:34 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) At 03:34 PM 2/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >Actually, the Mystaran view of the little gits fits how I like to run 'em as a DM--just the tiniest hair shy of sociopathic as a species. Yeah, they're loads of grins, but they'll take a human's scrotum to tan as a money-pouch soon as look at you, too. >Piranha on legs... And...you like this idea?! Sounds more like a Dark Sun version of the little people. Where exactly does any canon material present this point ofview of the hin? I've got nearly everything dealing with Mystara, but that one seems to have escaped me. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:32:41 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia At 04:02 PM 2/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Why would Alphatian's seek to return to the outer world when their conquering spirit can be satisfied with the lands of the Hollow World? Actually, they can't exactly conquer the Hollow World, since the Spell of Preservation will keep the individual cultures alive no matter what Eriadna and her friends attempt. However, they could still take over as a 'ruling class' accepting each culture's individuality, since they would have no choice in the matter. But I wonder about the Alphatians wanting to conquer anyway. >I have been toying recently with the idea of having the coming of the Alphatians to the HW have some unforeseen effects. This is a good set of points; if I were one of the Immortals (give it time :-) I would definitely reconsider the decision to transplant the entire continent. Maybe it's not too late to put them back? :-) >1) The Immortals expected the Alphatians to be just as complacent in the HW as they were in the outer world. But in reality the Alphatians, so newly come from a war, are energized by the lands around them in the HW. They are aware of the effects of the Spell of Preservation as they realize there is something stagnating their growth as a nation. Practical magical research and experimentation just does not work and it quickly becomes obvious. The mages start to theorize about the existence of the Spell of Preservation and an intelligent entity behind it. Yes, that Spell of Preservation would annoy them in a hurry, wouldn't it? But there's one minor quibble: the Alphatians have indeed just come through a horrific war, seeing thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people die. Would they be so eager to see that continue? Or would there not be a significant chunk of the population who said, "We've had enough of fighting and death; let's rebuild our lives." There is ample Real World precedent for this attitude; look at America after WWII; they knew Stalin was as bad as Hitler, but they didn't want to fight another war, so they let things slide and rebuilt their own nation, making it the most important nation on the planet and fighting the Cold War with the Soviets. >2) The Alphatians are the only transplants who have knowledge of the outer world. This and their already incredible magic power gives them an advantage over the Hollow Worlders. Only the ones who were higher than 9th level remember the Outer World (mind you, with all the wizards running around, that's still a big chunk of the population). >3) They do have some respect for the people of the HW. Nithians and Milenians both show a certain degree of civilized behaviour and the elves of Blacklore have some interesting knowledge. >4) In the coming years the Alphatians become the supreme power in the HW and re-establish contact with the outer world. >5) They will actively seek to destroy the Spell of Preservation. At this point Ka and his friends would step in and have a pointed discussion with whoever is running Alphatia at the time. Any takers on who wins that one? :-) Glen Sprigg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:35:53 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D At 04:15 PM 2/20/98 EST, you wrote: >One thing you are semi-correct in is how it is so helpfull to the younger players. I know that's not exactly what you said, but hey if someone wants to be a loner-type or a hunter-type, then you have a full reference of ideas, NWPs, WPs, and much more to add to the charecter sheet and allow the PC to understand her character better. I happen to like the character kit concept; it gives the player a template to role-play with, and saves time in character generation. It also makes specific settings easier to handle. Want a swashbuckling campaign? How about knights and nobility? Peasants defending their homeland? Amazons? Whatever you like, chances are some of the preliminary work has been done, allowing the game to progress faster. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:04:40 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia << How do I expect them not to? If I assume the other points then this naturally follows. Their ability to dominate any society that is not as powerful as they is not questionable. >> I'll grant you that they are powerfull, but you can't really believe that within a matter of years they will take over the Hollow World. I don't care how powerfull they are.....the hollow world is no easier to conquer than the Outer World of Mystara, and look how long they've been on Mystara and how large was thier teritory? It just doesn't seem reasonable at all. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:11:14 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? << I use it as a guide. I don't want, hope or think it wonderful to go through thousands of ideas picking them apart and sorting them just to decide that someplace I may never use has a history. >> Yup, i agree with you here. If I want an old NPC to have helped organize Karameikos when it gained independance...i just open the JA and find the timeline, and document it as such. That's what canon material is made for. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:40:43 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia At 12:04 AM 2/21/98 EST, you wrote: ><< How do I expect them not to? If I assume the other points then this >naturally follows. Their ability to dominate any society that is not as powerful as they is not questionable. >> >I'll grant you that they are powerfull, but you can't really believe that within a matter of years they will take over the Hollow World. I don't recall exactly what I said but I don't believe I said that they would "take over the Hollow World in a matter of years". I think it was more like "they will come to dominate the Hollow World in the coming years." I don't care >how powerfull they are.....the hollow world is no easier to conquer than the Outer World of Mystara, and look how long they've been on Mystara and how large was thier teritory? How large was their territory? It was the largest empire in the world. They DID dominate the outer world. That is indisputable. If they had been focused on subjugating every other race and nation they could have done that too. >It just doesn't seem reasonable at all. Sure it does. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:03:42 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Immortal Candidates Andrew Morrow III wrote: <> The Clock of Time (or something like that) from CM4 is a gnomish relic that allows timetravel, though in a very unsual and cumbersome way. To these days no time traveling device has REALLy been described, only mentioned (the most famous one is the one Yav used). I myself have envisioned three ways to travel thru time: a) normal way is by traveling thru Temporal Prime, exiting a timeframe and entering another using magic b) pseudo-scientific (gnomish) way is to accelerate the particles of the body attaining a speed faster than light that makes the target of the process travel back in time. The subject remains in the past only as long as the particles of his body travel at that specific speed: to attain this the subject must wear an item that mantains his atoms at that speed (this item is the cause of the time travel). If the subject looses the item, then he comes back in his timeframe c) Quantum Leap: using a magical item the subject travels thru time. Only the inner essence (soul) of the subject travels, the body remains in the present. The soul enters another body in the chosen timeframe (even though it is not easy to choose the timeframe where to travel -some speculate a higher power chooses the destination of the subject) and uses it while the host soul goes to his body in the "present". Often, before leaping to another timeframe, the traveller must accomplish some obscure mission regarding the person he lives into. I've already used both option a and c, and the funny is that one of my players used Trueseeing with the Quantum Leapers, resulting in a totally weird lecture (an elf with 2 HD and of level 15th!!). He still thinks the Trueseeing Ring he used misfunctioned that time because was broken! ;) <> [We're talking about Starwatcher here] well, this is very similar to what Estlor did in his campaign, though this time HE himself was the responsible for bringing the water and the forests to Ylaruam (after conquering the western part!). Fascinating idea however, but i don't know if the ylari could trust an elf to the point of putting in his hands their most beloved dream.. <> Oh, the minimum level rule.. you're right, i hadn't thought about that. Well, i guess since he's an evil NPC, then we could close an eye: but i'll never allow my players to do that! ;) Anyway, GAZ3 specifically says that Alphaks agreed on sponsoring Morphail to become immortal and he obtained his eternal servitude in exchange, so this is why i hypothesized he's been on the path since his turning into a nosferatu. <> well, i checked out the info on both guys and it seems they both attained nosferatu-dom (?) in the same period (AC 700) and given the fact they were both from Traladara, they MUST know each other. My idea is that Morphail has been the first Nosferatu, but MAYBE it is possible that the two were questing for the same artifact, Morphail wanted to acquire it for his patron while Sulescu wanted to study it and master its powers (alternatively he could have been on the path of the Epic Hero -?- the one where he must find an artifact of Entropy and destroy it, though i don't think it's likely since he was only a 9th level mage at that time). There was a showdown between the two and it resulted in the activation of the artifact, that turned both into nosferatu but with different personalities. Morphail fled with the artifact and moved to Glantri, while Sulescu tried to accept his state and live among the humans protecting them. Only a thought, nothing more.. <> Well, i don't have M2, but Herve told me that Bohn and de Mory are each other's nemesis, so i liked the idea of having them trying to ruin each other's plans. Maybe Bohn's quest is to find and destroy an item in possession of de Mory? If we have no ideas we'll see what you've elaborated so far on him, ok? :) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:06:15 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ochaelan cities Andrew Theisen wrote: <> Maybe there's a lobby of mappers who dislikes the town ;) <> That's really cool!!... Ohman ohboy! Could be! Could be! There is a domain in raveloft named I'Cath ruled by a sorcerer, Tsien Chang, that is very ochalean in flavour... A drastic hypothesis, but very fascinating. My compliments for this thought, Andrew! I think i'll go for this one.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:09:05 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Spelljammer and Mystara Glen Sprigg wrote: <> Jeff Daly answered: <> eh eh.. well, i'd say: "Mystaraspace is *more similar to RW space* than Spelljammer space." Mystaraspace and Voidspace have a similar temperature (which is not comparable to RW space and it's hotter than polar temperatures) and i bet Voidspace (Spelljammer) is FAR MORE dangerous than Mystaraspace (mainly because it's more developed and so they've inserted more perils and monsters). Anyway, for all of you interested in Spelljammer and Mystara rules about space and flight, visit my webpage: i've compiled the most comprehensive guide on how to adapt Mystara to Spelljammer and vice versa. That's the URL: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystsjr.html <> Duh? Sorry but without a spellcaster a Spelljammer couldn't move (HE is the energy source) and thus no Spelljammer.. I think they have at least the same importance in both systems. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Feb 1998 10:20:20 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D In AD&D, the players see the dragons like a beast they can hunt. And the dragons in general no have importance. I mean, if you see the monster compendium 1, there are so many criatures with so much HD that the dragons seems like "babys". D&D is Dungeons & Dragons. So the dragons are important, no only because the name of the game. I think that in AD&D you only think in the XPs. I sure that many of you think like me: the dragons in AD&D are so stupid that it's a really shame. Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #97 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:32:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #98 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Saturday, February 21 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 098 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin and the Shires Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Immortal Candidates Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) Re: [MYSTARA] - Half Elf Profiles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:42:26 EST From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin and the Shires In a message dated 98-02-20 08:58:37 EST, you write: << Here's a point to note: the Shires are the only halfling nation in any TSR-canon material I've ever seen; another unique point about Mystara. Not true, even on Mystara there is another, the Shire of Leeha in Norwold at the western end of the Great Bay. The amount of material detailing this area isn't very in depth, but it is there. - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:44:04 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net canon In a message dated 98-02-20 14:53:27 EST, you write: < You're absolutly right. Half-Elves are a horrible idea. C> They are too powerful and they would definatly unbalance Mystara. C> If you allow them to exist they'll conquer country after country C> until the world is theirs. Give me a break. C> If half-elves were in a D&D book they would be fine. C> But since the book they came in had a AD&D symbol on it they C> are a pollutant??? Great reasoning. C> Open you mind. G> Am I the only one that finds that sentence ironic? ;> A> No I spotted it too and it bothered me. I don't understand what you two are seeing. What exactly is ironic about what I said? Maybe you are misunderstanding me. Let me repeat. Galwylin earlier stated that he doesn't use half-elves with the sole reason being they came in a book with an AD&D label on it. I think this is a silly reason to take a race off of the planet. I think it is very closed-minded act. I would think the same if someone said that they hated Bruce Heard and therefore removed everything he wrote from Mystara. That's why I said "Open Your Mind." How is this ironic, considering I've never done something like that?>> Well what I saw as ironic was your saying that "half elves are a horrible idea" and then added the "open your mind" slogan. The former was sarcastic but was a paradox. << A> But alas, it is his opinion and who am I to attempt to sway him. Are you trying to suggest that I am ignorant in some way? Are you saying that I am so stubborn that no matter how right you are and no matter what you say to me, because of my nescience i can not be influenced? Please clarify.>> Actually I was respecting your opinion on the matter and reserving my own opinions concerning HEs for my own campaign. IMO (which I expect to be respected as well) HEs are a matter of choice. The sides for and against could argue the matter for weeks to no avail. As such, arguing it is pointless. G> Half-elves (pretending they exist) would not conquer the world. G> They simply would be too rare and face too many hardships to do so. G> One of the reasons they haven't gotten any farther in other worlds. Of course they wouldn't conquer the world. It was obviously a sarcastic statement. The point is if you put them in your world it's not going to pollute it. It can only add to it. Don't mistake me. I am not trying to tell you to put them in your world. I do though suggest that you don't leave them out soley because they are an AD&D creature. --- -- --Criptonite >> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:54:39 EST From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia In a message dated 98-02-20 21:36:35 EST, you write: << Here is something you may not have thought of -- does 23 Ramenhoteps necessarily imply 23 Ramenhoteps in direct succession? Or is it possible that some of the Pharaohs of Thothia during the era in question had names other than Ramenhotep? If so, then each Pharaoh could have reigned for considerably less than 80 years. >> Another possibility... although I think my vampire point is more likely the reason for the long rules. And another point to consider, some of those Ramenhoteps could have been the same, taking on a new name every century or so to cut down on suspicion (like Aketheeti did). - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:09:16 EST From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Immortal Candidates In a message dated 98-02-21 05:19:09 EST, you write: << has anyone developed any of these time travelling artifacts that are supposed to be floating around all over? With the exception of the Blackmore Comeback Inn/ Inn Between Worlds, which almost certainly had Immortals of Time involved in its construction (perhaps Verthandi, or Khronos predecessor), I dont recall any time travelling device actually detailed in published material. Several are mentioned- but dont receive much specific attention >> Since WOTI doesn't include a time travel power for artifacts, I made one up, arbitrarily assigning it 150 PP for a cost. And with that I created an artifact with this power, which the party I DM promptly discovered. And of course it activated, dumping them back about 40 years or so. And since they were in Thyatis at the time it placed them right in the middle of the Alphatian Spike Assault... But here is what I threw together for the artifact: The Sapphire of Protius Sphere of Time Lesser Artifact: 215 PP Vessel: A Fist sized sapphire which seems to shimmer like flowing water. If held to the ear, the sound of the sea can be heard emanating from it. Monetary Value: 50,000 gp Powers: Time Travel (150PP), Extinguishing (30PP), Water Breathing (15PP), Light (15PP) Handicaps & Penalties: There is only one of these, but its a doozy. The time travel power is uncontrollable. The power will activate spontaneously creating a blue-green flash which sends the character holding it & all nearby to a random time period. Activating Other Powers: Extinguishing: This is automatically activated by touching the sapphire to flames. Water Breathing: Activates automatically if the holder is completely immersed in water. Light: Automatically activates if there is total darkness. - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:42:54 EST From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D In a message dated 98-02-21 08:31:27 EST, you write: << In AD&D, the players see the dragons like a beast they can hunt. And the dragons in general no have importance. I mean, if you see the monster compendium 1, there are so many criatures with so much HD that the dragons seems like "babys". D&D is Dungeons & Dragons. So the dragons are important, no only because the name of the game. I think that in AD&D you only think in the XPs. I sure that many of you think like me: the dragons in AD&D are so stupid that it's a really shame. >> The biggest comment I can make about this is that there is more to a creature than its hit dice. Any creature which is well played, utilizing its abilities to the fullest can pose a considerable challenge to any party. My players have feared some of the weakest creatures in the game many times. Why? Because they have often had trouble defeating them. One example would be the Gremlin of the D& D game. My players hate encountering these... despite their only having one hit die. I utilized their special abilities to their fullest (Its very disconcerting to drop your sword +4 or have it get stuck in its scabbard due to some chaotic influence and also see your 20d fireballs up close and personal after they have come back and blown up in your face). Another creature is the Beholder. Its hit die and hit points are reasonably high, but not too high. Once again the characters hate them because of their special abilities. Well used and played the beholder has so many ways to use its abilities it boggles the mind. A dragon has many special abilities, just be sure to use them and your players will be leery of encounters... consider even the ability of a dragon to fly... what good is this? Well several good things come from this, one of which is that it puts the dragon out of range of most melee attacks. That sword +5 your fighter is waving about doesn't do much good if the dragon is 20' off the ground and spitting fire at you from a distance (Dragonfire is a lot more deadly than any bow or crossbow the character can shoot back with). How about the dragon's ( or any creature's for that matter) intelligence... consider what it sees when it looks at a party... even armor and weapons can tell a lot about what a party is made up of. Like this: 6 characters... 1 halfling clad in studded leather wielding a short sword, 2 humans in plate mail carrying swords - one has a long bow the other a crossbow, human wearing plate mail and carrying a mace, an unarmored elf carrying a sword, and an unarmored human carrying a staff. Faced with this type of a picture its not real hard for the dragon to guess who is what and judge his targets appropriately. Just do what your players would do... look at the opponents and judge who is the best initial target... in this case probably the unarmored human with the staff (probably a wizard), then the elf (might be a spellcaster... no armor is suspicious), then go for the one with the mace (probably a cleric judging by the blunt weapon), keep an eye on the halfling (could be a thief, make sure it doesn't get behind), the others are probably fighters (going toe to toe with them might not be a good idea-take them out at range, preferably out of crossbow range). Even doing this type of simple assessment based on what a creature sees can make any encounter more challenging. Essentially what I'm saying is don't play your creatures foolishly and the players will have a lot more respect for even the simplest creatures. - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:18:47 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Galwylin wrote: >To keep this from degenerating into a 'I'm right, you're wrong' argument... what is it that is the problem? I've stated that canon works for me simply by helping me keep from having to devote time to all areas of the world when my campaign is only involved in a small part at Fine, then *you* designate your version of "canon" for yourself and don't try to make it a standard for anybody else. >By the way, there are no 'canon police'. It's a tool that no one can or You've never had Jamuga jump on you for daring to be non-canonical, have you? >have changed it. Hiding behind an argument of how there should be no canon isn't sharing anything with us. Taking what you have given us, I Not hiding at all--I'm rejecting the very idea that this list possesses any authority to establish "canon" of any sort. Furthermore, why should I bother to share anything if I not only have to worry about items that have been commercially published but I also have to be in accord with a body of "net canon"? It all sounds like a tin dictator power trip to me. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:23:08 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Glen Sprigg wrote: >At 03:34 PM 2/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Actually, the Mystaran view of the little gits fits how I like to run 'em as a DM--just the tiniest hair shy of sociopathic as a species. Yeah, they're loads of grins, but they'll take a human's scrotum to tan as a money-pouch soon as look at you, too. >>Piranha on legs... >And...you like this idea?! Sounds more like a Dark Sun version of the Wouldn't know. Never looked at any Dark Sun. >little people. Where exactly does any canon material present this point of view of the hin? I've got nearly everything dealing with Mystara, but that They were able to throw out the orcs and they're not borderline psycho? I'll admit that my copy of the Shires Gazetteer is in a box, somewhere, but still... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:24:34 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? On Sat, 21 Feb 1998 Inconu@aol.com wrote: >Yup, i agree with you here. If I want an old NPC to have helped organize Karameikos when it gained independance...i just open the JA and find the timeline, and document it as such. That's what canon material is made for. Fine, but that's published stuff. Adding an additional level of "net canon" is nothing more than ego stroking. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:09:21 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia In a message dated 98-02-21 00:52:27 EST, you write: I don't care >how powerfull they are.....the hollow world is no easier to conquer than the Outer World of Mystara, and look how long they've been on Mystara and how large was thier teritory? >How large was their territory? It was the largest empire in the world. They DID dominate the outer world. That is indisputable. If they had been focused on subjugating every other race and nation they could have done that too. I believe they were the number one power at the time...that is indisputable, but they were far from dominateing the outer world. They had no Alphatian land on any of the 3 major continents. They had many powerfull enemies that were far from dominated. By the end of WOTI, it was Glantri and Thayatis that still remained world powers and not Alphatia. Of course they were fareing well in the war, but if at any time they tried for domination over the world....they wouldn't have gotten anywhere. Picture the Known World united against the Alphatians....do you think they would be able to have taken those odds? I know the chances of the Known World uniteing is small, but in the face of a country looking for world domination....i believe they would rise to the occasion. Don't get me wrong...i have much respect for Alphatia, but as far as a being a world dominating force.....the empire was no where close.....in my opinion. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:13:52 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D << I think that in AD&D you only think in the XPs. I sure that many of you think like me: the dragons in AD&D are so stupid that it's a really shame. >> Playing for XP is completely decided on the players and/or DM ....nothing more - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:29:34 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? >Fine, then *you* designate your version of "canon" for yourself and don't try to make it a standard for anybody else. It's obvious that you just aren't listening to what we're saying or you wouldn't keep writing this statement over and over again. >You've never had Jamuga jump on you for daring to be non-canonical, have you? And if i did, i wouldn't complain about it to everyone on the list. Who cares if someone doesn't agree with you? The ideas on the list all help out everyone, just take what you like from the list and ignore what you don't like. >It all sounds like a tin dictator power trip to me. Damn guys......he's figured out our master plan..... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:32:03 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the authoritarianism? << Fine, but that's published stuff. Adding an additional level of "net canon" is nothing more than ego stroking. >> Right, it could have nothing to do with helping to continue Mystara or anything.... If you don't like the idea then don't use it. There's no gun to your head here. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:09:14 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) >>little people. Where exactly does any canon material present this point of view of the hin? I've got nearly everything dealing with Mystara, but that >They were able to throw out the orcs and they're not borderline psycho? I'll admit that my copy of the Shires Gazetteer is in a box, somewhere, but still... Hey! We Americans kicked the Brits out and we weren't psycho! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:18:57 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia At 11:09 AM 2/21/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-21 00:52:27 EST, you write: >I don't care >>how powerfull they are.....the hollow world is no easier to conquer than the Outer World of Mystara, and look how long they've been on Mystara and how large was thier teritory? >>How large was their territory? It was the largest empire in the world. They DID dominate the outer world. That is indisputable. If they had been focused on subjugating every other race and nation they could have done that too. >I believe they were the number one power at the time...that is indisputable, but they were far from dominateing the outer world. That is just incorrect. With so many mages and air superiority they were the most powerful force in the world. For instance, consider the spike assault on Thyatis. It was due to underestimating the significance of so many warriors at the arena that they lost. They were unquestionably the stronger power there. They had no Alphatian land >on any of the 3 major continents. Actually they had Alphatian land on both Skothar and Brun. Theirs was the largest landmass. They had many powerfull enemies that were >far from dominated. The Thyatians did okay but they feared an all out confrontation. In the DotE it stated pretty clearly that if both empires went into an all out war then Alphatia would win. The cost would be so high though that both empires would be hurting. So the two were fighting a kind of "cold war". By the end of WOTI, it was Glantri and Thayatis that still >remained world powers and not Alphatia. But that was decided by events beyond anyones control. It is not because the princes had a more powerful army! Of course they were fareing well in >the war, "Faring well" doesn't cut it! They had beaten Thyatis. Thyatis was out of the picture. but if at any time they tried for domination over the world....they >wouldn't have gotten anywhere. Picture the Known World united against the Alphatians....do you think they would be able to have taken those odds? But you weren't talking about the Known World united. I made the statement that they could have taken over the world. They could have. In their 2000 years on the planet with that much firepower they could have done more than merely dominate--which they did do. No one ignored the Alphatians. I know >the chances of the Known World uniteing is small, but in the face of a country looking for world domination....i believe they would rise to the occasion. Only when they are threatened. It would take some time for everyone to be convinced that they have a personal stake in putting Alphatia down. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:55:40 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves In a message dated 98-02-20 15:50:24 EST, you write: << Very well presented, Alex. I think some physical diadvantages should have been touched on. And have you thought of instead of elven women having a 'switch' to instead go into a mating cycle (like Spock on Star Trek or the story of 'Raistlin's Daughter' in which the mother accidently initiated a need to bare a child from Raist). I enjoyed it and think it could be used well in other settings. Cheers for Alex!>> Thank you. I had thought of some disadvantages to include. The aging was an obvious item. HEs age faster than humans and age quicker than elves. As was the social outcast aspect. These two were obvious and pretty much outlined in AD&D sourced. Other disadvantages come to mind. Awkwardness (-1 on Dex). Health (-2 Con). Food suitability/weak stomach to either human or elven foods (Con. Check). Alternative to Ghoul Para. attack (penalty to save. or added effects). I also didn't go into the elven tendency to eliminate HEs from the world to "right the wrong done to their race". The Alfheim Gaz seems to hold great influence upon the mother as a deciding factor for the HE. I agree. I also factored who was essentially going to raise the child (the mother) as a factor. The "sharing of the blood during gestation" seemed a useful note to explain greater tendencies for certain of the mother's traits. The reproductive mechanism seemed a logical means to explain the lackluster reproductive rates of elves. It also gave a reasonable means to limit the birth of HEs that are very elven. More human HEs due to a human mother are more common. Balance was the key. More lesser power HEs and fewer greater power HEs. I did include the "concubine" aspect to account for "uh oh" HEs. The female elf gets accustomed to and even developes feelings for her master. Such feelings are seen in hostage situations. IMO elven males are much like human males. They are away doing adventurer stuff. He and his PC buddies stop in a villiage for a few days to rest, spend some loot, lay low, etc. Due to elven good looks, several villiage women find themselves attracted to the dashing elf. He is a long way from his Clan and the male instinct comes into play. The elf finds one of the women attractive, almost as good looking as an elf maid. One thing leads to another..... The woman winds up preganant. BTW this woman usually ends up being the villiage head man's daughter for some reason. Or the daughter of the blacksmith or tavern keeper. For later use. Plus getting caught "doing" a notable villiager's daughter often gives reason for the early departure of the PC party. I wonder why :-) The reproductive mechanism's switch kind of falls into the elf's living with nature aspect. It allows them to avert overpopulation of an area. It lets them be in control. Throw in emotions and a change of environment for an extended period and the standard "switch" aspect can alter. Then throw in the Alfheim after WotI and you could see an increase of births to account for their losses (IMC the Alfheim did fight the invasion to a degree. mainly it was a series of delaying actions to allow the refugees an egress corridor). The same could be said for the Shiye-Lawr of Alphatia. Such a need for larger population numbers is seen in the Shadow Elves.Therefore more children are produced. Even if it just one child more than the norm, the effects are noticable. As a side note, I would like to post that "Sergei" was found with no less than twenty arrows in his chest while travelling back to Krakatos. It is beleived that certain elves took offense at several of his comments on elves and his general nosiness in their lives. As such, a group intercepted his journey, struck him down with an arrows, and mutilated his corpse. Or should I say it is hoped his corpse was mutilated. Otherwise, the lad suffered extreme torture. It should also be noted that Sergei's nose was cut off and was nowhere to be found. All attempts by the School to revive the departed mage failed. Even spells to communicate with the departed did not offer an effect. Master Terari believes that the elves used some mysterious spells to keep not only Sergei dead, but to also keep his story from being told. It should be noted that Terari has enlisted the assistance of the noted Alphatian hero Allstrick to track down the perpatrators. Sire Allstrick took the task without hesitation and is gathering a party of fellow warriors to accompany him.It is said that even the King of Theives, Flameflicker, has dispatched servants to assist him. The task of detailing the supposed half elf has been passed on to another mage. One that will prove more of an adversary than the recently graduated Sergei. Master Terari has forbidden the release of the identity of this new scholar. We at the School wish both Allstrick and this mage Alphatia's blessing. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 20:30:46 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) On Sat, 21 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: Someone wrote: >>>little people. Where exactly does any canon material present this point of view of the hin? I've got nearly everything dealing with Mystara, but that >>They were able to throw out the orcs and they're not borderline psycho? I'll admit that my copy of the Shires Gazetteer is in a box, somewhere, but still... >Hey! We Americans kicked the Brits out and we weren't psycho! *ahem* well.... ;) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:32:07 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half Elf Profiles To keep the departed Sergei's work flowing, we at the School have examined his work notes. In them we have found descriptions of several half elves. To display the School's resolve in matters of research, we shall present these for the reader. Tarenda of Wendar. Tarenda is a half elf of the Wendar Wastes. Her mother was human. And naturally her father an elf. She has been told that her mother and father met during a particularly hard hitting blizzard. After the snows ceased, her father departed. A few months later, her mother proved to be with child. She has brown hair like her mother. Blue eyes like her father. Her skin is fair like both her mother and father. Her build is slim. Her features angular. She wears her hair long to conceal a pair of slightly pointed ears. Terenda claims to be some sixty years old, despite appearing to be only in her early twenties. It should be noted that Terenda is an extremely attractive woman. Terenda admits to being able to see about 20 feet in complete darkness. She displays an aversion to some foods. Red meats in particular cause her great discomfort and nausea. She admits to consuming only water and certain wines. Never meads or ales. Terenda carries a sword and staff. The couple of times I spoke with her, she wore chain armor of a particulary light weight under several layers of clothing and a cloak. She would not divulge its source but I suspect it is of elven make. She also hinted at the ability to cast spells. However, she would not divulge if they were mage or clerical. From her tendency to use foul language I tend to favor the former as no cleric would utilize such profanity. One thing lacking is a bow. Terenda admitted to me that she could never could master the bow. Even less skill oriented launchers such as crossbows gave her fits. One night we had emptied several flasks of expensive wines, Terenda told me of her father. It seems she did track him down some time ago. She said he seemed surprise that the human woman had taken with child. What transpired after that is a mystery. Not only had the fumes of the wine affected me, but also Terenda had began ranting incoherently about things. However, I did get the impression that a physical fight erupted between the father and daughter. And from various rants, I concluded that one of the two did not leave the confrontation alive. Her mother is more easily discussed. Terenda spoke at length about her. She was a kind woman. She suffered many hardships to keep her child fed. The humans looked distanced themselves from her. None of the young men pursued her as a suitor. Terenda spoke of the tendency for elves to come to town to have a look at her. Terenda recalls vividly the disdain they poured onto her as they observed her. Words such as "bastard", "half breed", and "rut trophy" still remained in her memory. I should be venturing North this spring. I hope to see Terenda once again. I have heard tales of her acting as a Yontugan for an elven Clan. From my understanding, a Yontugan is a sort of bounty hunter to handle inter Clan rogues. Since direct action by a member of the Clan could cause internal strife, outsiders are often called into service. And since those of elven lineage are more suited for the task, they are chosen. Yontugan is the name for this role in the Clan in question. Other Clans use other terms. Though not a cleric, my prayers for with her and may Razud see to her survival. [Ed. Note- For obvious reasons, Sergei will not be venturing North. Efforts have been made to contact Terenda. Allstrick of Alphatia has reported some success in reaching her using spells. There is rumor that she is travelling to Mirros to join the party to bring Sergei's killers to justice] Daphne of Thyatis I first met Daphne several years ago. Her story was the inspiration for my whole project on those of mixed elven and human blood. She is a friendly sort and is welcome company in any tavern. Daphne is short in stature, breaking five feet at the most. Her complexion is fair like her parents. Her hair is a light brown. Her eyes are an uncanny grey. Her features are angular and quite attractive. I'd say her build was slim but her petite nature betrays this. Her figure is more rounded and full bodied. Daphne usually wears trousers, a blouse, a vest, and cloak. All the times I have seen her she wears a brace of daggers on her hip. She sometimes carries a bag of sorts slung over her shoulder. Some have reported that she carries a short sword when not in the capital. Though it took many meetings to build trust, Daphne divulged that she could not see in the dark. She also spoke of not being able to use bows with any accuracy. I believe this to be false as many have pointed that she often shoots at Sire Allstrick's range at his residence here in Mirros. Dapne did tell me that she can cast mage spells. However, she said that the ability is new. According to her, her father, though a mage, forbid the art to be taught to her by her mother. In fact, he forbid her mother from casting spells. Daphne said she only began learning spellcraft after becoming employed by Sire Allstrick. At the present, her skill are limited. I asked her about the sword and daggers. She laughed and said they were for appearance only. As she said "A girl cannot be too careful these days". I decided not to ask about the supposed archery practice. Daphne lives in Karameikos. It is said that she is the product of a longlived Thyatian mage and his elven concubine. Despite remembering little of him, Daphne has nothing but good things to say for her father so it is beleived that he treated her mother with certain respect. However, others tell of the mage being a less than kindly man so the matter is subject to conjecture. As such, either he treated her mother with great respect or she is deceiving herself. Daphne's father moved to then Traldara before King Stefan's appearance. He was some sort of prominent aristocrat but his magical experiments (believed to be necromatic) made his stay in Thyatis undesirable. Daphne's mother died mysteriously. Several sources speak of her being killed by one of the mage's projects. This is supported in that the mage himself was slain shortly afterwards by one of his conjurations. Daphne passed on as property to one the mage's family members, a preistess of Valerias. The member took up residence in the mages home. Thier relationship is questionable. But sources say that she was given the task of overseeing the household chores. When King Stefan did away with slavery, Daphane was free. Her owner eventually returned to Thyatis without her after selling the residence. Why she did not take her is suspect. Daphne told me that she did not ask. She did say that she would have if she had. Some have spoken of the influence of certain of Daphne's friends here in Karameikos in the matter. Since gaining her freedom, Daphne has found employment with Sire Allstrick. What she does is unknown, but her looks and background have given cause for many rumors. I mistakenly asked her about these rumors. Her response was quiite a surprise. Instead of verbally responding, she lept from her seat and had quickly drawn both daggers and had one pressed against my throat and the other against my ribs. Then she expressed a grin and slowly withdrew the blades, returning them to their scabbards. She retook her seat and ordered another drink. She never answered the question and I never pressed the matter. The speed she exhibited demonstrated her resolve. Later, I heard that Daphne's place in Allstrick's household centers on his son. The source is of worth and I doubt it as false. Daphne is the boy's ...... [Ed. Note- Sergei's report on the matter ends here. Though there is some added text it is mired by spilt ink. Efforts are available to make the mired text legible. However, the task has been forbidden by Master Terari. The original scroll was destroyed after the allowable information was copied. ] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #98 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 20:12:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #99 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Saturday, February 21 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 099 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia R: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia Re: [MYSTARA] - Half Elf Profiles Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] A Post You NEED to Read! Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] A Post You NEED to Read! [MYSTARA] - AD&D Dragons... Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D [MYSTARA] - Milenian Calendar Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) Re: [MYSTARA] - Spelljammer and Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] A Post You NEED to Read! Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:32:40 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 Kaviyd@AOL.COM wrote: >Here is something you may not have thought of -- does 23 Ramenhoteps necessarily imply 23 Ramenhoteps in direct succession? Or is it possible that some of the Pharaohs of Thothia during the era in question had names other than Ramenhotep? If so, then each Pharaoh could have reigned for considerably less than 80 years. I thought about that, but M5 does state that, with the death of Tokoramses XIV (I think that's the one), the Ramenhotep dynasty begins and the Tokoramses dynasty ends. Usually, using the term dynasty implies an uninterrupted reign of a certain series of monarchs. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 22:39:25 +0100 From: "Silvano Calugi" Subject: R: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) - ---------- >Da: bjm10@cornell.edu >A: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Oggetto: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Data: mercoledì 11 febbraio 1998 16.13 >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Peter Balazs wrote: >>King Lionheard survived the crusade, made some enemies (for example the Austrain king). But when he then traveled back to England, he traveled through Austrian territory, but was too proud to don his jewelry, when diguising as a commoner. So Austrian officials found him and imprisoned >It had nothing to do with "pride", and there was no such thing as Austria at that time. Richard had gotten into an argument while on the Crusade with a Prince within the Germanic (mis-named "Holy Roman") Empire. He was >in disguise because he was taking a shortcut through that prince's lands. >He was recognized anyway and imprisoned for ransom. There was no law requiring any noble or monarch to wear jewelry. >>him. He was given back to England for a quite handsome randsom. (And the >>thing with Blondel, John, etc.. happened!) I think the money was paid not >>be King john, but by some other nobles to get their king back. >There was no King John at that time, Richard was King of England. John was merely regent. Since he had no personal lands (hence his nickname, John Lackland), and since the Regent at that time did not have the authorization to reduce Royal lands, John raised the money by taxing the nobility, who in turn taxed their peasants. *************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:52:24 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) At 08:30 PM 2/21/98 +0100, you wrote: >On Sat, 21 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >Someone wrote: >>>>little people. Where exactly does any canon material present this point of >>>>view of the hin? I've got nearly everything dealing with Mystara, but that >>>They were able to throw out the orcs and they're not borderline psycho? I'll admit that my copy of the Shires Gazetteer is in a box, somewhere, but still... >>Hey! We Americans kicked the Brits out and we weren't psycho! >*ahem* >well.... ;) Notice my use of the past tense: "we weren't"! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:52:53 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves In a message dated 98-02-21 13:12:03 EST, Alex295@aol.com writes: >HEs age faster than humans and age quicker than elves. Did you mean that Half-Elves age SLOWER than humans, or are you introducing some really short lived Half-Elves? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:52:54 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half elves In a message dated 98-02-21 13:12:03 EST, Alex295@aol.com writes: >Food suitability/weak stomach to either human or elven foods >(Con. Check). What do Elves eat that Humans don't? And vice versa? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:52:57 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mages of Alphatia In a message dated 98-02-21 00:19:40 EST, Inconu@aol.com writes: >I'll grant you that they are powerfull, but you can't really believe that >within a matter of years they will take over the Hollow World. I don't care how powerfull they are.....the hollow world is no easier to conquer than the >Outer World of Mystara, and look how long they've been on Mystara and how large was thier teritory? It just doesn't seem reasonable at all. I think they have already figured out how the Hollow World "ticks". Actual conquest (with the intent of imposing their own culture) is clearly not a good way for the Alphatians to proceed. However, they can easily form alliances with any culture that does not have an absolute hatred of spell casters (i.e., with over 90% of them). They won't be controlling much of the surface of the Hollow World, but I would not be at all surprised if in a few years most of it is under Alphatian "protection". And that won't bother the Immortals at all -- in fact, that was part of their intention in placing Alphatia there in the first place. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:52:59 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia In a message dated 98-02-21 14:47:04 EST, ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu writes: >I thought about that, but M5 does state that, with the death of >Tokoramses XIV (I think that's the one), the Ramenhotep dynasty begins and the Tokoramses dynasty ends. Usually, using the term dynasty implies an uninterrupted reign of a certain series of monarchs. In this case, you are probably right -- although this was not strictly true for the Egyptians upon whom the Thothians were based. The Ramenhotep would be an uninterrupted series of at least 23 monarchs, but if we allow for the possibility that some members of the dynasty had names other than "Ramenhotep" then there could be many more monarchs in the succession. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:53:01 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia In a message dated 98-02-21 09:06:49 EST, Magesmiley@aol.com writes: >Another possibility... although I think my vampire point is more likely the >reason for the long rules. And another point to consider, some of those Ramenhoteps could have been the same, taking on a new name every century or so to cut down on suspicion (like Aketheeti did). The only flaw I see to the vampire hypothesis is that vampires cannot reproduce in the normal manner, so there would be no way for a vampire to beget a son at the age of 80+. Also, Ramenhotep X is still "alive" in M5, so there is no reason to believe that he or any of his successors continued to reign after becoming undead. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:55:16 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Half Elf Profiles >Tarenda of Wendar. >Tarenda is a half elf of the Wendar Wastes. Her mother was human. And naturally her father an elf. She has been told that her mother and father met during a particularly hard hitting blizzard. After the snows ceased, her father departed. A few months later, her mother proved to be with child. She >displays an aversion to some foods. Red meats in particular cause her great discomfort and nausea. She admits to consuming only water and certain wines. Never meads or ales. Hmm. I wonder why she has an aversion to red meats? Elves are noted huntsmen... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:51:49 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) At 12:09 PM 2/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hey! We Americans kicked the Brits out and we weren't psycho! Actually, they got tired of fighting and decided to leave it alone; they still had a huge chunk of North America to play with, and they didn't think America would last very long as an independent nation. As for the hin, they rose up and threw out the orcs twice, as well as a pack of dwarves. Never underestimate the little people. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 15:05:36 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] A Post You NEED to Read! Mystarans, I am on a lot of mailing lists, around a dozen or so. I have been on most of these lists for over four years. And, I must say, that of all the lists I am on that receive at least moderate traffic none is as well behaved as the MML normally is. That is, until now. The MML currently has a different face, and it is one that I, and many others, am not happy with. It has gone from a civil forum for the discussion and development of Mystaran ideas to a place for slinging mud. But it will change back. If necesaary I will take steps to insure it... Canon The MML was conceived as a place for people to get together and share new ideas relating to a "dead" world. I started it because although it was a "poor cousin" world on TSR's roster, it had a healthy group of dedicated fans who wanted to keep it alive, and there was no other such resource on the internet. I have to admit I find this whole canon discussion odd. Simply put, if you have something Mystara related to discuss, the MML is the place to discuss it. As long as it is not crude or offensive, post it. If you want to discuss you own version of Ierendi, no matter how non-canonical it is, as long it still relates to the rest of Mystara, post it. Want to discuss your year 2050 campaign, with all it's changes? As long as it is still recognizable as Mystara, go ahead. Now, this does not mean anyone has to care, and anyone with a bit of smarts should know when they are talking to air. Sometimes you are going to bring up a topic no one is interested in. They have the right to delete it and move on. There will be no "offical" list designaton for any sort of sub-category of "canon." If you are posting something based on your own work, I encourage you to say so, simply to avoid confusion. It is a matter of a couple of sentences that can elimate a half-dozen subsequent posts saying, "Huh? I don't recall _that_ in my copy of the Gazetteer!" Poeple have worked hard on the net-almanacs and other similar material; it's some damn good stuff, and some of the list members should be working for TSR :) BUT, the list, as a mechanical entity, will give no such works any form of recognition, no title of "net-canon" or "quasi-canon." Not because it is not quality stuff, but because it is not the Admin's place to pick and choose favorites, nor is it the list member's place to make such declarations. Like these works and want to post stuff to the list that is based on it? Go ahead. Add a sentence or two indicating this, and all is well. The net-canon discussion needs to end. It has acheived nothing oterh than flaring tempers. Opinions and Trolls Opinions have the capablity of being very constructive. People often post things then ask for opinions on them, or ask for opinions on a certain product. Opinion is an important part of the MML. But, there is a type of opinion that acheives nothing other than... 1) Stroking the ego of those who share it, just to have it heard. 2) Pissing other people off. If you feel the urge to share such an opinion, don't. DO NOT. If you have nothing constructive to add, do not add it. Think AD&D "pollutes" Mystara? That's lovely; go ahead and write a thousand word essay and put it in your scrapbook, because the MML is not the place to declare it. It is nothing but noise that angers people and adds nothing. If you find you cannot refrain from sharing empty, negative opinions, unsubscribe from the list, or I will do it for you. Civility One of the problems with the 'net I have seen is that people often forget that the words they are writing are going to be read by _people_, other human beings. I have seen numerous posts on mailing lists or Usenet and thought "Would you say the same thing if that person was standing there?" People are not infallible. They make mistakes. Some are outright jerks. Regardless, if you feel like replying to someone, do so in a civil manner. God, I can't believe I even have to say this! The MML is not a place for name calling, rude remarks or other such childish nonsense. They only lead to flamewars. Want to tell someone off? Send it to them privately. The number of actual flamewars on the MML has been amazingly small. Much smaller than most lists I am on. And it needs to stay this way. If you find that you cannot be civil, cannot refrain from rude comments and trolling, unsubscribe from the list, or I will do it for you. Got all that? Good, now on to a few other points... The New Offical MML Archive Page I am happy to announce that Shawn Stanley's Mystara web pag is now the "offical" MML Archive page! What does this mean? Does this mean the Admin is picking favorites? Not at all. When I started the MML all those years ago, I saved everything that was posted that could be of use, such as new spells, monsters, NPC's, country descriptions, and so on. I did this to make such things easily accessible, so people wouldn't have to wade through the old digests to find the good stuff. Well, as time went on I found that school took more and more of my time, and was unable to keep up. Then they booted me out of school, and work took up too much of my time. So, this archive really suffered. And, that is what the "offical" means. His site will simply be a place were much of the stuff posted to the MML will be posted. He will occasionally update (once a month?) his site with the recentpositngs. So, check it out. The URL is... http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 And everyone else, keep designing those pages! We need more! The Undead Former MML Despite the fact that I cancelled my account with them several months ago, the old MML on Illuminati Online is still chugging along. Anything with an all-caps [MYSTARA] is from the new list, while anything with [Mystara] is from the old list. Because the old list still occasionally gets spammed, I am going to unsubscribe everyone from it, probably some time next week, Wednesday or so. This means if you have never received anything from the new list, now is the time to subscribe. See the FAQ at... http;//www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ...for details on how to do so. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:12:55 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] A Post You NEED to Read! At 03:05 PM 2/21/98 -0000, you wrote: >Mystarans, >I am on a lot of mailing lists, around a dozen or so. I have been on most of these lists for over four years. And, I must say, that of all the lists I am on that receive at least moderate traffic none is as well behaved as the MML normally is. >That is, until now. The MML currently has a different face, and it is one that I, and many others, am not happy with. It has gone from a civil forum for the discussion and development of Mystaran ideas to a place for slinging mud. >But it will change back. If necesaary I will take steps to insure it... Thank you; I was starting to get somewhat annoyed about all the discussion. I wasn't even sure who was arguing for what at one point; it just looked like people were arguing for the sake of argument. I say if someone needs to discuss canon, take it up with Brannart or Morphail; they'll deal with the problem swiftly and efficiently. :-) >The New Offical MML Archive Page Okay, so if I understand this correctly, stuff like Jenni's B1 adaptations, the recent stuff on Half-elves, and the ideas of what immortality candidates are up to will be on here? This would certainly save time in pruning the info out of the mail itself. Kudos on a great plan. Glen Sprigg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 15:29:20 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Dragons... 3@giga.com.ar spewed forth... >In AD&D, the players see the dragons like a beast they can hunt. Sounds like a rather objective statement. Sounds wholly nonsupportable. Care to back it up with _any_ sort of proof? What your saying here is that if a player of OD&D switched over to AD&D for a game they would develop a whole different mindset simply because of moderately different rules? >And the dragons in general no have importance. AD&D is a game system, not a world. The imporatance of any one monster is not based on AD&D or D&D. It is a function of what a given setting and the GM wish to focus upon. Rules are for delineating what a character is capable of, not what creatures are importan in a game settng. Besides, one word: Dragonlance. I mean, if you see the monster >compendium 1, there are so many criatures with so much HD that the dragons seems like "babys". Care to give some examples of these numerous monsters that make dragons look like babies? >D&D is Dungeons & Dragons. So the dragons are important, no only because the name of the game. There is nothing I have seen in the OD&D rules that makes dragons more relavent, more important. Again, how 'bout some examples? Heck, for that matter, Mystara itself does not really place any real significance on dragons. >I think that in AD&D you only think in the XPs. Who is this "you" you are speaking to? >I sure that many of you think like me: the dragons in AD&D are so stupid that it's a really shame. Ummm, what exactly do you mean by this? A rather vague statement. There Inelligence score? Sorry, looks like someone has a system preferrence, and tries to justify it with non-arguments that have no logic or proof behind them. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 00:04:36 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D vs. AD&D Another try: >>E.g. I introduced armour that absorbs part of the HP when hit. I gave >... >Do you mean to the complete armor in D&D? Well, it´s like part of the total damage goes to the HP of the armour (=is absorbed) and part of it comes through. (very simple description) Also: >I think I don't understand when you wrote weapon-spec. ... >In AD&D you have all the weapons in the first level and all the fight and attacks forms. I mean, the whole game is the same, in the 1st and in the 20nd level!!! This opinion derives from my own experiences going back over more than 10 years of RPG. It is very easy to obtain "expert" skill in a specific weapon. It is business as usual for a character to specify in own weapon and therefore this "he has all weapons" is only of interest while the character is "born". Back to the topic: An expert sword-fighter with high strength has normally a damage that goes far beyond 10 HP-Damage even if he rolls snake-eyes (double-ones). In AD&D this step is reduced and softened. Concerning this topic OD&D is like going from 0 to 100 in one step. With regards to: >I don't give the wizards the possibility of using weapons, except the dagger, in lower levels. >But during the game he can become a warrior if he really want, something stupid. In fact in the books (I use the books not the Cyclopedia) the wizard can be a Mystic in high levels. I think you misunderstood my sentence. It is not that I want a mage to become a warrior. --- And there is no such "stupid" thing as changing profession. This is a powergaming-habit. It is just for roleplaying and the character has the "very personal" feeling that he can protect himself. Although he knows (as player) that he is far from that. Til next time. -- Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:09:17 -0500 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: [MYSTARA] - Milenian Calendar I recently started a new Hollow World campaign set in the Milenian Empire. One thing that I immediately noticed was lacking from HWR3 is a Milenian calendar. All the dates in that product are given under the Thyatian calendar, which is good for the DM to have as a reference, but obviously, the Milenians themselves would not use it, since they've been in the Hollow World for longer than Thyatis existed (since 100 BC according to both the Hollow World boxed set and HWR3). Not only that, the lack of seasons and changes between day and night would require the Milenians to drop any calendar they had used on the outer world. The Hollow World set states that time is measured using the floating continents, but does not give any further specifics. So, I decided to make one up myself, using the information on floating continents given in PWA3. I came up with the following. All comments are welcome. MILENIAN CALENDAR One SLEEP is the period between the time when someone goes to sleep and the next time that same person goes to sleep. It is equivalent to one day on the outer world. One CASSIAN is the amount of time it takes the floating continent, Cassia, to make one complete revolution around the sun. There are 56 sleeps in a Cassian. One DEMICIRCLE is the amount of time it takes the floating continent, Tama, to make one complete revolution around the sun. There are 168 sleeps, or 3 Cassians in one demicircle. One CIRCLE is the amount of time it takes the floating continent, Kjell, to make one revolution around the sun. There are 336 sleeps, 6 Cassians, or 2 demicircles in one circle. The Milenians call the two demicircles in each circle, First and Second respectively. The three Cassians in each demicircle also have individual names: they are Halav, Protius, and Petra during the First demicircle, and Halav, Matera, and Petra during the Second demicircle (named after the principal Immortals of Milenia). The name of the demicircle is used to distinguish between the two Halavs and the two Petras, thus First Halav and Second Halav, and First Petra and Second Petra. At one time, there was also a First Protius and Second Protius, but as the cult of Matera became more prominent, Matera displaced Second Protius. Technically, the Cassians of Protius and Matera are called First Protius and Second Matera, but as the First and Second are already known, they are usually excluded when a Milenian gives the date. Sleeps and circles are numbered on the Milenian calendar. Thus a complete date can be formed: e.g. the 13th sleep of First Petra in the 1114th circle of the Second Empire (measured from the time the Milenians arrived in the Hollow World; although the Milenians have forgotten their outer world roots, they do know that they had a previous empire "somewhere else" that collapsed). The 1114th circle corresponds with the year 1014 AC on the Thyatian calendar. The complete calendar: First Halav corresponds to Nuwmont/Vatermont (First) Protius corresponds to Thaumont/Flaurmont First Petra corresponds to Yarthmont/Klarmont Second Halav corresponds to Felmont/Fyrmont (Second) Matera corresponds to Ambyrmont/Sviftmont Second Petra corresponds to Eirmont/Kaldmont Michael Ray Johnson *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:00:36 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) At 04:51 PM 2/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 12:09 PM 2/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Hey! We Americans kicked the Brits out and we weren't psycho! >Actually, they got tired of fighting and decided to leave it alone; they still had a huge chunk of North America to play with, and they didn't think America would last very long as an independent nation. You can't deny the fact that England lost one of its most important colonies and that they did put up a fight and that for a time at least it did look like America would lose. The colonists had a fight they believed in and though they were outclassed and outnumbered they persevered and won. I think it is similar with the Hin. It is not that they were "psycho" or unstable. They were tired of being pushed around and they did something about it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:10:51 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spelljammer and Mystara ><> >Duh? Sorry but without a spellcaster a Spelljammer couldn't move (HE is the energy source) and thus no Spelljammer.. I think they have at least the same importance in both systems. I think you misunderstood my poor wording. I was merely explaining the seperate roles of a spelljammer mage and a Mystaran voidship mage. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:32:38 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) On Sat, 21 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >Hey! We Americans kicked the Brits out and we weren't psycho! You are engaging in irony, yes? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 20:04:02 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] A Post You NEED to Read! On Sat, 21 Feb 1998, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >There will be no "offical" list designaton for any sort of sub-category of "canon." This is all that I was worried about. It sounded to me like there was a movement afoot to get this list to put forth certain materials beyond those commercially published designated as being of higher status than any materials that might come later and thus conflict with the earlier material--even TSR didn't show that level of sacrosanct preservation with its own published material, cf Princess Ark vs. the original Known World. Some of us *did* have a "Great Khanate" worked out, after all... >The New Offical MML Archive Page >I am happy to announce that Shawn Stanley's Mystara web pag is now the "offical" MML Archive page! >What does this mean? Does this mean the Admin is picking favorites? >Not at all. When I started the MML all those years ago, I saved everything that was posted that could be of use, such as new spells, monsters, NPC's, country descriptions, and so on. I did this to make Does the page have a links section? I am highly averse to posting lengthy materials to a mailing list (relic of my UUCP-era days, when the whole world was at 2400 baud, I guess). I tend to prefer putting up larger articles on a Web page and not eating a lot of spool space through a remailer. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:09:34 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes (Halflings) >From: bjm10@cornell.edu >=20 >On Sat, 21 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >=20 >>Hey! We Americans kicked the Brits out and we weren't psycho! >=20 >You are engaging in irony, yes? Haha! Well, one problem with England was taxes. We fought a war to relieve ourselves of unfair taxes and now look where we are. So, yes, that's irony if ever there was any. On the idea that hin are much like the American colonists, it's just not true looking back in hindsight. The hin were subject to not just unfair treatment but slavery and death. Colonial Americans could hardly say the= y were treated in such a manner as a group. The colonists rebelled because of unfair practices, the hin rebelled for survival. I don't see them as being psychotic for that reason but it could make them take on a form of psychosis with dealing with peoples that have a reputation of the same actions. This would help explain their attack on von Hendriks and kidnapping of King Karameikos even if it caused a war between the two nations. - ------------------------------------------------------------- This has been a Galwylin=A9 Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #99 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.

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